Albany Common Council, NY General Services, Health and Environment Committee, 21 Apr 2021

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From YouTube: April 21, 2021 General Services, Health and Environment Committee Meeting

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A

Good to go kathy.

B

Okay, thank you uh good evening. Everyone. um This is the april 20th meeting of the common council's planning, land use and economic development committee meeting committee meeting uh council members. President committee members, president judy daucher and tom holly other council members of wusuanani. We have um staff john raphael, piccardo and danielle gillespie and from the planning department.

B

We have director brad, glass and zach powell and I think that's that's it for now uh we're going to begin the meeting by discussing resolution 721-20r, and that is a resolution declaring a climate emergency and calling for immediate emergency mobilization to restore a safe climate and uh the sponsors here, uh councilmember anani, and if you could explain why you brought this resolution forth.

C

Yes, um thank you so much um it's self-explanatory as it relates to um prioritizing and also highlighting the fierce urgency of now, as relates to uh foreign, a safer climate.

C

um As many of us are here aware, climate change represents probably the greatest threat not only to our environment, but also to our economy, facing the possibility of many instances of storms out of whack weather patterns, that of crop production, frequent flooding in some areas and droughts and others of letting this happen is too much to bear with.

C

It is why we met and that's why I'm working with uh the sustainability committee and also teaching liberals so individuals across uh you know this has been a campaign all across our country, from smaller cities, larger cities, looking at all levels of government to prioritize and take action as it relates to making our environment much safer.

C

This resolution is a good start in place to begin acting on the city's behalf, because it happens to our residents and surrounding neighbors and even the world that albany takes climate change seriously and we're willing to do everything uh possible to make it happen.

C

So um I know I have tina lieberman here who has also added some changes, uh current resolution, but this sets goals for our city, which is consistent with many of the uh actions that advocates have been advocating for over the past couple of years, uh and I urge my colleagues to support this resolution.

C

I also want to thank tina and also sustainability committee for all their support and also counselors for their input on making sure that uh we prioritize uh addressing uh the diverse need, as it relates to the climate, and also um sending a message to our neighbors, that this is an issue that the city of albany care about um I'd like to turn over to uh tina lieberman. That's all right and just talk a little.

B

Bit about the resolution, thank you thank you and tina. I apologize. I should have introduced you also tina lieberman, from the sustainability advisory committee, um and also I noticed councilmember richard conte is also here so welcome tina. If you could um give us a little bit more information about this resolution,.

D

Sure thanks, um so what what I wanted to say is that I'm hoping that this resolution energizes our commitment to reducing greenhouse gas emissions, which is something that we we need to kind of uh re-um commit ourselves to do it. It was in our 2030 uh action plan and, um and it it's part of our climate action plan, that we were going to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions 40 by 2030.

D

That is now a goal also for new york state in the climate, leadership and community protection act, um and uh you know it's just uh extremely important that we move toward it. uh We also were able to add in information specifically about the city of albany's greenhouse gas emissions, because uh now that we have an energy manager who's been with us just over a year, uh jason west, he was able to do a greenhouse gas emissions inventory using all of our 2019 data, which we hadn't done.

D

uh You know was about 10 years ago that we'd had one done so, um taking that we now understand that our our largest emission sector is in energy used for heating in buildings.

D

So we really need to focus on building decarbonization with energy efficiency and um and switching off of fossil fuels, and then transportation is our second biggest sector for emissions, and so we also really need to focus on um not just uh electrification of our fleets and electrification. You know helping support residents as they switch to electric vehicles, but we also have a wonderful, pedestrian and bicycling master plan that we really need to implement so that we make um walking and bicycling safe and attractive for people as an alternative.

D

I know zach powell is very involved in that it's a wonderful plan, so I think we really need to commit to it and commit resources to this so that we can move forward so you'll find at the very end, there's a lot of real. You know um focused ways to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and the third area would be um reducing um landfill um emissions. The methane coming out of landfills, which we now know is 9.1 of our of our greenhouse gas emissions.

D

um By by um diverting food waste from our landfill, which can also be used for uh food, we make compost and we can use it to improve city soil and be able to grow food, especially in food deserts in our in our neighborhood. So it that that's a win-win all around.

B

Okay, well, that's really terrific tina, and so I'm going to ask other council member members committee members first if they have comments or questions about anything in the resolution or on the issue.

B

E

Thank you um tina. One of the things we're going to be dealing with later in the meeting is um more and more especially, we covet drive-throughs, where, um like drive-through testing drive through pick up food, um do you see this? You know while covets going on as a problem, or is this something that we should start looking at now.

D

We can definitely people are already asking us. We need more charging stations in downtown albany, I mean we could definitely be doing something right now. We we need to pave the way. We also have this wonderful. As I said, the pedestrian and bicycling master plan, you know, are we going to? How quickly can we implement that? You know what what does it take to make that happen more quickly, rather than you know, putting it on a leisurely pace.

B

Okay, and was there anyone else, judy.

F

So um I'm trying to figure out what this actually accomplishes. It's not something that's being put in code, there's no funding associated with it. We have a bicycle master plan that is.

F

Been worked on diligently.

F

You know I there's nothing to debate in this, but I feel like it's nothing but a feel good, paying lip service to things that we all agree on. um But how is the city of albany going to reduce the amount of food waste entering the landfill? What are we doing to make sure that happens?

F

I guess is is the question is just, for example,.

D

Well, that's a good example because we did get a dec grant to reduce food waste, so we are working toward that um and uh I think some plans are going to be unveiled in the next few weeks about that that that's moving us in in that direction. um But and.

F

This resolution does what they'll further to accomplish that I mean I yeah. I think I think I think we spend a lot of time as a council on resolutions that are feel good resolutions when I would actually like to see where we are doing something very concrete to make sure an issue moves forward.

F

I mean tina, you know me, you know I've been supportive of this. I you know, I have, you know been having radix pick up my food scraps for years, um and um you know I don't have more than a kitchen bags worth of of garbage going uh into the you know into my garbage can, and sometimes I don't even you know, put it out uh in any given week, because I have so little garbage.

F

What is the city you know if we want to talk about this? Let's have some real, tangible programming associated with with that um and if the program is happening and there's funny what what more does you know the resolution accomplished is um I mean I have a lot of you know questions about a lot of.

F

This I you know- and I think that that this is really um something that you know where, where is a work product coming from the sustainability uh committee, to get the city to do something that we can say, here's a very specific program or plan that we need the council to do x on this needs to be codified, etc in order for it to actually accomplish something. So that's my my frustration with.

D

F

D

I would say for the food waste aspect of it that can be codified if it's approved in a solid waste management plan, um but there are other. There are other ways to approach codification of that, but I mean I turn it back to you folks. How do you take this? Can you use this to then think about ways and we can work together?

D

um We, I think it's going to take the sustainability committee, the common council and the administration to work together to see how do we take this and turn it into real action steps.

C

All right, there's just a piggyback.

C

G

C

I think tina laid on the head. This is not just uh uh as relates to making our environment much safer. It's not just a one person in one department.

C

This is all of us that to put our heads together and come up with some uh actionable items moving, but I do believe that it's important that we um words matter words matter and words matter, and I think that coming from the legislative body of the city uh to come up with a resolution to let residents in the city of albany know that we care environment, and these are some of the actions that we're going to take again.

C

This is a breathing living document I understand where you're coming from, but I think that all of us have a role to play in addressing uh our client issues.

B

uh J.R, I just I see you've had your hand up. um Did you want to come in.

A

um I just wanted to clarify, because there one thing I'm I'm trying to with the usda I've been reviewing. The uh comprehensive plan I just want to clarify is the 2020 albany climate action plan of subpart of the 20 albany 2030 plan, because I'm looking at it right now and it is in there. I just wanted to make sure that, if we're in this resolution, that's actually reflected that it's also part of the albany 2030 plan as well.

B

I'd have to go back and look, I believe it's mentioned in the albany 2030 plan. Isn't that right, tina.

D

Yes, it's the climate action plan and uh that that is part of the 20 albany 2030 plan, which was issued in 2000 2012. I believe.

A

Yeah. So I just wanted to make sure because, because I know going forward we're about to hit 2030 that you know something that we want to also. You know any subsequent amendments to the comprehensive plan that we do soon.

B

B

Yes, that's what you know. We should go back and review that and see, um take a look at it and see. uh I know that we're supposed to update it as we go along, so we probably should take a closer look at that um anything else, and uh I I I agree with you wusu. I think, there's value in um bringing the issue to the public's attention once again.

B

Earth day is coming up, so um people have had a lot of other issues on their mind this year, this last year between the pandemic and and unrest and and on and on so um there's new funding. That's coming from the federal government, so you know we can make sure we should all be um taking a look at what we can do to improve our environment and the climate, and you know possibly use uh some of the funding towards that as well. So something to for us all to consider.

B

um Does anyone want to put any other comments? First by council members, and I should point out that ginny councilmember jenny farrell is here and president pro-tem kelly kimbrough is also here.

E

Kathy, I had one question for uh tina that I thought of I'd like to ask: if that's okay, sure yep tina one of the things I've noticed- um and I mentioned before about the covid- um is the tremendous amount of mass. Wherever I go in parking lots um on the road taking a walk. Is there anything that can be done that people we can get people to you know dispose of properly their their face? Mass.

D

Well, I guess I you know I would ask um yeah, we could certainly put out the word as best we can. um We, you know through various uh our facebook pages and the mayor's. You know um facebook page. So that's something we could do to put out that information, and I think I think everyone is seeing that quite a bit. uh I guess also.

D

We typically have spring cleanups and I think we're about to have one the the um the river keeper sweep is coming up, so there is going to be some cleanups going on in albany, but yeah. I think we all have to pitch in and if folks here want to sponsor a clean up. That would help too.

B

Okay, thank you tina um is anyone any anyone else and otherwise, maybe we could see if there's someone would like to put a motion on the table.

D

Can I ask one question sure: is there any way we could form a little bit of a working group between the sustainability advisory committee and some council members to now take this this resolution and turn it into action.

H

Absolutely absolutely.

F

I actually think that that that would be a great thing to do before we pass a resolution to actually have some identifiable goals um by certain dates. What do we mean about increasing? You know electrical charging stations. um You know the city has just added um some. I have been in touch with matt, peter um and uh jason.

F

You know about that um as an issue, um and I would like to see more um being supported and whether they are private or whether they are government um sponsored kind of doesn't matter to me as long as they become um you know more available uh for people so that that then encourages more purchases of electric vehicles in the city for a lot of people who wouldn't know how to go about doing that if they don't, especially if they don't have a garage with electricity in it or something like that.

F

So there are things like that that I would feel like we're accomplishing something with this resolution. If there were actually identifiable goals that were that we're looking to implement.

B

uh Will so do you have any thoughts about that? Is it your resume.

C

Yeah, I think this resolution has inspired her, but I will see it pass and you know once it: it comes to the flow for a vote. We can stop putting them together, um but it's like one of those things what came first, the chicken or the egg, but I think that they want to inspire, and I hope that so far it's already expired inspire judy to think about this committee.

C

Hopefully this also inspire our residents to also come up with some ideas moving forward once it passes, but I think that uh um yeah a vote on this will be.

F

I I I want to disagree with you uh with regard to this resolution, inspiring me to think about on committees.

C

F

I have you know this reflects issues that I have been working on for years um and- and I uh you know in the usdo um in you know in my detailed review of that um zach knows that I've provided input into the pedestrian bicycling plan and made sure my constituents were aware of that.

G

F

I participated in the waste management um uh discussions uh in this city, um so this is not gonna change. My advocacy uh you know on on those issues. I've been doing that and, and the question is, how do we as a council do something that results in real, tangible collectively?

F

What do we really do that results in real, tangible um change um on these issues, and I and I think that, without specifying specific goals and doing things like you know, ginny is working on the fifteen dollars an hour for all city uh workers. um Having us a very specific goal and saying this is what and then having somebody say. I'm gonna push on that issue with the administration and find out. You know how we're going to achieve that, and I see that tom hall's hand is up. I'm talking too much again go.

B

E

Yeah um you know I want to support uh councilman anani's uh resolution, but councilman uh judy did bring up some points. There's any way. We could tweak this a little bit and try to get some specific goals in it and you know pass it out. um A committee like that, or is that you know, is that possible.

B

Well, is there a suggestion as to the a specific goal that you would like to see as part of the resolution, either judy or tom.

B

Tina had suggested developing some some kind of.

B

Encouraging council members to work with sustainable advisory committee, I mean in the past what we've done is gotten together with the sustainable advisory committee, have them report the work that they've been doing and a lot of times.

B

Their report does, uh uh you know, speak to some of what we're talking about here. There are goals that they set and action items and so on and so forth, and that helps us move forward as far as legislation.

E

So maybe we could put in something that um that uh councilman anani will work with the sustainability committee to uh point out some immediate uh concerns um that we need to as a city to address so um so I'll make the motion that we actually actually.

F

E

F

Yeah- I I like this- I like this, so I actually think that to us for councilman member anani to work with the sustainability advisory committee to establish clear goals to implement each one of the um resolved plot. Each one of the items mentioned in the resolve clauses that would make me feel a lot better.

B

Okay, council member anani will work with the sustainability advisory committee to establish clear goals to what was what was it judy.

F

To um implement implement okay, each one of the therefore be it resolved. Clauses in this resolution.

D

And now can that lead.

G

And I'm okay with it.

D

G

D

Can that lead to um something going into the budget eventually so that we can do this because there's a lot of grants out there that we could make use of? But you need to have funding to enter into that so like. If we could set clear goals of action steps, then we might have a better idea of what kind of funding we need to make them happen.

E

That would show that, wouldn't it judy.

F

Well, I think I think that that's an excellent point um to have um whatever the action items would be than to um evaluate how it's going to be achieved and make recommendations for the budget. Absolutely that would, and I wanna you know, the the city starts the uh budget process generally in the summer.

F

um You know and be probably before with you know, each one of the departments, but generally you know aiming for mid-summer for coming up with um specific recommendations, and I think um you know potentially uh coming to or sending a memo to the finance committee for it to cons, and maybe the planning committee for it to consider advocating for the inclusion of those budget items that could be some real, significant outcomes from this resolution.

F

That would be great.

B

Okay, so maybe we should add, establish clear gold and develop action items to implement each of the.

F

B

Be it resolved.

F

B

Clauses all right um I'll make a motion to pass the resolution to the full council with.

F

uh With those amendments.

G

With those amendments.

F

I think tom was making. I made that.

B

I'm sorry tom go ahead I'll. Second, it thank.

F

B

G

B

Hi okay motion, passes and uh resolution goes to the floor for a vote. Thank you, uh councilmember anani. Unless.

G

And team decides to hold it.

B

For for joining us all right.

B

Thanks everyone now.

G

B

To um the amendments to the usdo- and uh let's say I see zach here and brad's here and uh which of you, want to get started on uh tonight's agenda,.

I

I'll just do a real, quick intro. um You know after we met a couple weeks back, um I met with our staff again and, um and we kind of went through the the permitted use table and concluded that we had some additional uh changes that we wanted to pursue with respect to that. So we are going to present additional items from that section and we also did want to start with a uh or you know subsequent to that, go through a review of some article.

I

Two changes that we're considering um some of them are um substantial in the sense that they move content uh either remove content from the code or move it elsewhere. Some of the content is redundant so today, with respect to that, I'm going to kind of go through uh what we're looking to do and get some feedback from the committee members on that. So um that said, I think uh I think zach is going to kick us off with the article three uh use table changes so zach go ahead. Can.

F

I can I just jump in here: are you going to be using a the powerpoint presentation.

G

F

Okay and so brad, I maybe it's coming through my slow um email, but you had sent us a powerpoint and you said you were waiting for um to insert some slides, I'm wondering if you've passed, that on to staff or us.

I

Yeah, I think I think actually, as I was speaking with you, zach was sending that to danielle and jr. So I think that should be. What we have here zach. Is that correct.

J

Yep- and um I will start forwarding that right now, um it's going to take a little bit of time just since the internet is a little slow, but I will try and get that over right now, um just trying to make sure I'm getting all of the council members.

J

F

Slide one of 54.

J

Some are repetitive and just include the same content but add a few small things each time. So it's not as daunting. I promise.

I

I'm I'm sort of glad uh tina is here if she might want to stay on. There were actually a couple things that we were looking at, that we may want um feedback on moving forward. um I think a couple of them actually came up in the preliminary discussion with uh with drive-throughs and all the other uh uses.

K

Just to clarify all of these are the slides, the powerpoint, etc, and the memos are being uploaded to the uh the department page.

I

uh Everything should be up to date, except for the stuff for um today's meeting.

K

Okay, is it possible to get um stuff that you're talking about at the meeting up, so that the public would have access to it.

I

um We would very much like to do that. um You know. We've got a a lot of deadlines that we're we're meeting here so often times we're just finalizing things prior to the meeting, I'm hoping that we can get out ahead of this a little bit more, but we've kind of been.

K

You know I totally understand.

G

K

The ideal isn't always possible but appreciate that you actually have that uh that page up.

I

Yeah and again, if you have any suggestions for uh additional items to be added, it's a work process.

K

Yeah, I just think every document that we're talking about and that you're producing uh is what really needs to be there.

G

E

Brad the revised usdo has that been put into e-code. I know last time we had talked you were getting around to it. Well,.

I

I've been going back and forth with our contact there I know danielle has reached out to them as well. um I I kind of thought it was going to be a flick of switch sort of thing, but it hasn't turned out that way, um but uh I'm actually gonna follow up as we speak here.

E

I

J

It I just gonna, be: oh I'm sorry, brad.

I

I was just going to say it's going to be helpful for us too, because then we can create one working document. uh I think you know we should be able to export that in word or version that we can edit and get a working document up there for you.

J

So I just emailed a copy of the presentation to all the council members that are present right now. um I think my email is a little bit slow and not cooperative, so feel free to. Let me know if you haven't received it within the next couple of minutes.

J

Perfect, I got.

G

J

um Okay, perfect anyone knock at it.

K

I have it also.

J

Great, thank you councilmember farrell as well, um so I'm just gonna uh try and go uh quickly but feel free to stop me at any point. If you have any questions, I wasn't present at the last meeting, but I tried to put in some of the unanswered questions or content from the last meeting as well.

J

So I'll, try and address that as I go through council mayor conte, you had asked about the web page for the usgo review, so that's located as a sub page on our department website and the link is included below as part of the website.

J

We have some of the graphics that we're proposing to use that brad will be talking about for article 2 to replace the existing district drawings, and the page also includes a meeting schedule with links for documents, as well as links for the video recordings for these meetings and then also larger discussion topics for larger content items that are being discussed as part of the update and then to council member doche's questions and concerns for multiple uses within the general section.

J

There were some small edits that we're proposing just to clarify changing the word from development to property. Just to it's, our current definition for property is talking about an action to a property and not necessarily a property itself, adding that multiple uses are permitted when they're, legally non-conforming and then councilmember doshee. I also know that you had we're looking to change the word approval to permit for conditional uses, since that aligns with the process for applicants receiving those or applying for them.

J

So council member duchet expressed concern with multiple uses within residential zoning districts, so just as a quick example of this, and I think it's a valid concern and maybe the current language doesn't address uh what you're trying to get at, but there are properties within residential zoning districts.

J

This one, for example, is the albany school of humanities that has three principal uses while being located in a r1m zoning district. It has a park, it has public utility or services minor and it's a school.

J

So there are instances where there are multiple uses. Sometimes they might seem not as intense as other principal uses.

J

This is something that we're happy to work on to address any concerns with this to get at the questions and the comments that you had at the previous.

J

Meeting uh moving on to unlisted uses, um our department had uh stated that we would have a more solidified process for classifying unlisted uses and interpretations. We are still working on this again. The goal with whatever process that we come up with is to better clarify what needs a formal interpretation set standards for posting formal interpretations on the city's website.

J

Aligning the appellate process for interpretations through administrative appeals with the board of zoning appeals, and there could be options for existing processes with usdo text. Amendments to have interpretations appear uh before the planning board at a public hearing to provide increased transparency for members of the public and then also help make it faster if something is significant enough or there's a large amount of concern for an issue to move that for a text amendment so that that can be immediately addressed.

J

I'm going to be covering some stuff that brad had covered at the last meeting, but again this is just since there are some new content items so bear with me an apologies.

J

If this is repetitive, we are proposing to remove the district standard references at the top of the permitted use table and based on feedback that we heard from some of the common council members as well, and some discussions from our department about splitting up the land conservation district into two types of zoning districts with one being pk for park and one n a for natural areas that are not as appropriate for any type of development or activity, and then also splitting up um industrial districts and open space uh districts uh to create uh separate zoning district use, classifications and apologies.

J

Council. Member dosha, you had your hand up.

F

Yes, can we go back to the slide on 375 301, I'm having a little bit of a hard time, keeping up for some reason, my it's not flipping pages. For me on my thing um with my screen: I'm that's what you have there is not.

F

These are just aspirational goals at this point in terms of what you're planning on doing as opposed to language changes- and this is this- is not.

F

This this is not reflected in the the separate documents that we received yesterday right, brad.

I

No, I don't believe so.

F

Okay, just all right I'll, probably come back to you after I take a closer I mean I don't know where the next step is here. You're going to take this and now drift, something from it.

I

So judy there's there's a a series of issues. um You know I started sort of calling them out on the uh the usda webpage. A little bit that are just sort of um larger and more uh are going to require a little bit more work. I did put this into that category. I certainly think it's something we accomplish as a part of this project, but it's probably something that's deserving of its own memorandum, um and you know we still do want to meet with the corporation council.

I

We haven't had a chance to connect with uh with brett, so I just want to make sure and whenever we're proposing we're, grounded appropriately in law, so yeah we're still working on the language, and we do expect to have like a memo on this topic. In particular,.

F

Great- and I think um I think it was in the last meeting and at some point- maybe whether it's this meeting or the next meeting, I think we should sort of put it as an agenda item. Or maybe you know somebody like me who cares about. I should just talk to you about what might be some of the hallmarks of what a notice and opportunity to be heard. Kind of process would look like for I want to say some of these smaller decisions that hopefully, don't necessarily have to go to a planning board yeah.

F

um But you know, I think I think you expressed agreement. You and your staff have expressed agreement that there should be notice to people who care when a decision is being made and um and that maybe and and that there is some sort of appellate process which you have reflected here and I think teasing out and having a little bit more of a a working conversation about what that looks like and how we don't want to get it too bogged down.

F

But we want it to achieve a certain purpose, but you know, I think I think the goal in a lot of cases is to allow the administration to keep on moving forward on issues without too much delay, because we don't want.

F

You know to create a lot of red tape, but at the same time, where there are novel issues there should be notice and there should be potentially an opportunity for people to be heard kind of thing. So I I.

G

F

Having a little bit of there's lots of ways, you can go about doing that lots of it. You know I mean that's just part of administrative law, um maybe having a conversation with brett you and me um brett, you mean kathy or richard whatever um or a broader discussion. That's you know with the committee.

I

But yeah so you're thinking some um some sort of test scenarios or case uh examples that we could use to sort of apply in principle and see where we, where we land.

F

Yeah- and I think so, I think that this kind of tentative notice of decision making two places where I see it coming up, that's obvious to me- is the unlisted uses and non-conforming use determinations, um and I can certainly provide a couple of um examples um of that. I'm sure that you know pretty much. Every council member can provide um an example of that and and and looking at what interpretations have been posted. I think is also really some of the test cases right.

G

F

All right thank.

B

You, okay, okay, zach,.

J

Yeah and thank you for the clarification that was just to make sure that we were addressing the topic since it was brought up at last the last meeting, and um we were anticipating to talk about it tonight, but we're still working on it um just making sure that no one else had questions. Okay, I'm gonna keep proceeding.

B

Actually zach, when you went over the two um pk for park n a for natural areas and what was the next, um the next two that you can you just review that.

G

J

So with this slides yeah, so currently, um industrial districts and land conservation are grouped together under um a classification known as special purpose. So this is just separating those to have industrial districts by themselves and open space districts by themselves.

B

Okay, thank you.

J

Just because special purpose didn't seem necessarily like the appropriate term um to classify those so um and I'm just going over this a little bit again, just because um the new classifications being proposed are just gonna come up as we go through again. This is going over content that was presented at the last meeting of creating a new land use category for utilities and infrastructure and listing some new uses, such as small wireless facilities and solar farms, and their allowances are shown for the open space and industrial zoning district categories.

J

This was also presented as the last meaning of removing the these designation.

J

um With this presentation, though, we are proposing to change some of those classifications to either c for conditional or p for permitted use, um and, while it's not shown here, um some of the p allowances and sea allowances, specifically um within the rt zoning district, are limited to existing ground floor storefronts or pre-existing non-residential structures.

J

And just as a reminder currently with the v or vacant uses, these have to be buildings that have been vacant for five or more years, and the applicant would still need to get a conditional use permit in order to use the site for that use. So this is, I think, as brad had mentioned at the previous meeting, trying to eliminate the time that a building is vacant and make sure that's being reutilized, but for some uses it does make sense to continue looking this through a conditional use, permit process and provide opportunity for public comment.

J

Another big thematic uh change with this presentation is increasing the number of use allowances in industrial districts.

J

For you know a lot of the i1 or light industrial zoning districts.

J

There are a lot of existing permitted uses and just carrying some of those over into the i2 zoning districts, based on some feedback that we've received from people who have submitted application to our department or to the building department, adding urban agricultural as an accessory use, adding bar tavern as a permitted use within the i1 and i2 zoning districts, as well as restaurants, funeral homes or crematoriums changing offices from an accessory to a permitted use in the i2 zoning district and then adding some accessory uses with industrial districts, um specifically with the first two for composting of household waste and home occupation.

J

We do allow for live work, dwellings.

J

So, just trying to recognize that people do live in these districts and allow for them to have the same rights as other people living in other non-industrial districts, allowing for rain barrels and then also allowing for sidewalk or outdoor cafes and then also allowing for farmers markets within i2 zoning districts of the temporary use.

F

So I just want to point out that you um said live work, but actually a home occupation is not a live work. Did we are we changing the live work under residences to allow that, in industrial.

J

Yeah and thank you for bringing that up so uh for live work dwellings um and for anyone who's on uh right now, who's not familiar with those. Those are structures that have to have a connection between the dwelling unit and the commercial element of the building.

J

So really, when we were thinking about this, we were thinking of instances where, maybe um you know a household lives within a live work dwelling, and maybe one person works in the work portion of the live work dwelling, but maybe another household member is operating a home occupation, so just trying to think of those instances and just try and allow for those instances.

J

In the event they happen again, we have not seen anyone use the dwelling so far with the zoning code, but again just trying to provide more parity and equity throughout zoning districts for the live work, dwelling use.

F

So my point is: live. Work actually doesn't show up on this chart.

F

You have home occupation, which is different, so live work, live work would be under the land, use category of residential not accessory, and I'm fine with having home occupation there as well. But if your intent is to include live work, then you need another line up above.

J

Yeah so live work. Dwellings are currently permitted in industrial districts. This is just showing new use allowances uh that are being proposed um for article three, all right and sorry for the um lack of clarity, in that, when I was presenting on that.

E

Zach, I got a fast question on um the um under civic and institutional uses, um religious institution and I'm just trying to make sure I'm understanding this right, um so in an i2 like which would be heavy industrial, I believe, is what you said. We could have like a church or something like that built. um Am I correct in that assumption.

J

Yeah currently right now, it's listed as a conditional use, but we, what we're proposing, is just allowing it as a permitted use.

E

Now, if somebody say somebody sets up a church and this is an industrial area and then a factory opens up and it's noisy or whatever um could we run into problems, I'm. What makes me think of this. Is um you know a lot of people like to live out in the country, um and I know some counties have to do right to form legislation. So you get so many people live out there. They don't want to live next, to you know a cow farm or something like that. Could this open up problems for us?

E

That's my only question. Thank you.

J

Yeah and right to farm is kind of a unique scenario. There are not too many they're, not as many uses that have those guaranteed rights, usually there's something that are in the public interest that prevent people from banning them. um You know- and I think in a lot of religious institution is a pretty expansive category.

J

um You know and there's some religious institutions that meet daily there's some that only meet weekly, so um you know I think it's uh probably going to be uh dependent on the use um but they're already uh permitted within i1 zoning districts as well. I think, have a lot of similar potential issues or characteristics, so it just seemed a little odd that we weren't treating it the same going forward, but I think it is good to bring up and good to think about as we're going through this.

E

F

If I, if I can just chime in there, it's a it's a great point um and um something that you need, you need to see the flip side. Of course you wanna, you know why, wouldn't you let a church be there if a church wanted to be there, but they might then wind up um unbeknownst to them being located next to some new development that they are then opposed to. In our case, I'm looking at the map- um and it looks to me like we- have i2 in two different places.

F

One is the port of albany and the other one is that industrial park area out by I-90 off of everett road kind of thing and it's kind of tom. I think that my gut with regard to that, if anybody's going to locate a church or any of these other things in either of those locations, then they are on notice. It's not like it's going to be some sort of surprise to them. Oh I wound up next to um you know, um you know a wind turbine factory or something like that.

E

Or now do we allow adult bookstores in i2? I thought, or am I off on that.

J

uh Yes, I believe we allow adult retail in i2 zoning districts so.

E

That judy that's a you know if a church opens up and then next door, you know but, like you said, the two areas that we're looking at most likely a church wouldn't have there, but we never know what's going to happen five 10 years, 20 years down the road so well, you know I just again just make the point. Thank you.

J

Any other questions on the added use allowances for industrial districts.

J

Okay, um so moving on um we're also proposing some additional use: allowances for the new park, zoning or pk zoning district as well, um uh adding new, civic and institutional uses, urban agriculture, food uses, office and services accessory uses and temporary uses, and the footnote is not included with this. But again, the intention with the open space district is to limit the amount of development on a site. um So we are going to be looking towards developing a footnote that limits.

J

um You know the percentage of the site or size of any proposed new structure within a park. um So again, the focus is the green space within the zoning district, but we have heard people express an interest. You know to maybe open up a beer garden within the city or encourage more food and beverage service within city parks.

J

So this is just trying to accommodate for some of those uh instances and requests that we've been hearing.

I

Yeah, and if I I could just add there really quickly, is you know I think in most, if not all cases here, the land in the park is going to be publicly owned. So there would be, you know, ability to to curtail any you know, sort of undesirable activity through you know the general process of city-owned property and needing permission, but I also think we'll look at some new specific standards just to be clear that we're not opening up.

I

uh You know the parks district to development just to accommodate those ancillary uses and make sure that uh when people are doing those sort of activities that they're in line with our our ufc ordinance.

D

Can I ask a question um from uh the sustainability committee we're working on creating a network of community compost drop-off sites and, in addition, we would like to. We were like um working on a commercial composting facility uh option possibility uh how how would those fit in with what you have here.

J

Yeah and thank you for the the question I'm just going back to our permitted use table just to make sure that I'm answering correctly. I believe that that would be falling under um bear with me just one. Second, I believe that would be falling under waste recycling uh processing facility right now.

J

um You know, I think it's something that you know speaking for myself, but I think you know we'd be happy to work to maybe find a new use, classification or definition for that, because we have been hearing an interest for you know more neighborhood or community based.

J

You know trash uh or composting options um so happy to work with you on that. You know we do have the household composting listed as an accessory use, um but it's potentially something that we can build from to recognize uh the work that sac is trying to do for this.

D

Wait that sounds great. Let's, let's be in touch on that, because that I think that's the way, the future.

E

I got a fast question on uh like with the park and temporary uses when we have like lark fest and the different festivals, where we have food areas set up. Would that be considered under temporary?

E

You know, or even food trucks where um you know they drive and they they cook within the truck is that covered in here.

J

So from my understanding and we've been having more conversations about this within our department, um areas that are within the city's public right-of-way um aren't covered with the usdo. So a lot of the stuff like you're speaking to with larkfest, would go under special events and permitting through the city and the state does have its own program or excuse me. I believe the police department has its own program right now for um uh food vendors around the capitol um we have uh talked about.

J

um You know mobile vending or temporary vending through our usdo as well, but a lot of that is limited to you know a period of less than a month or on private property. So we don't see that come up as much was there. Some concerns or questions that you had on that.

E

Did you have the usda.

J

Address that better.

E

I I didn't see it, that's why I was just asking about it because I know it is popular um and, as time goes on as the years go on, it's getting more and more popular and we see a lot more of it. So it's just you know, I'm thinking like washington park. I forgot that there's roadways in there, which is the public right away, so I think you've covered it. I didn't know if we, you know, I think in the future.

E

If we need to put something in we can it was just one of those things I didn't see it and I didn't understand. Thank you.

J

G

F

Just chime in here on the laboratory research facility in an open space, um I minimally, that has to be a conditional use permit because that's very expansive.

F

I know that you're talking about putting some sort of footnote in it, but until we see criteria or how you're going to address that, I think that really you're talking about a um it, has to be a conditional use and that just comes from 25 years of regulating clinical and environmental laboratories and being being involved in oversight of research.

F

It's just a little, you know you may mean some very innocent things, but by just making it an outright permitted, uh you're really opening the door up to a wide variety of things.

J

Yeah and thank you for bringing that up, you know we are looking to limit the footprint for any future buildings, and you know I think, um with our previous conversations about that that was mainly trying to address um you know small research that might be going on. um You know within the pine brush, preserve if they're trying to do testing or any field research, that's going on so happy to come up with or develop language that really gets at what that's trying to address and if that's not able to cover it as well.

J

You know, I think again, it's a great point to look at making that a conditional use as well. I don't think it's going to be a very common use, but it's good to make sure that that it's not creating a noxious situation moving forward.

F

And when you talk about a building, normally, if somebody's doing research in uh in the pine bush, um it would essentially amount to um specimen collecting sites it, wouldn't they wouldn't necessarily really be doing the the research there. This is all in in a sense it can be sort of like. Oh, your home has become a laboratory because you're using a home test kit. um It might you know it might be overkill and suggest a little bit too much.

J

Yeah and that's a great point- um and so maybe that's just uh looking to uh designate it under a different use, classification or just again um spell that out better within the use, specific standards. But that's a great point.

J

Any other questions for this slide.

J

Okay, brad had presented this at the last meeting as well. This is just adding that there's a change from multi-family detached dwelling, just changing that to multi-unit detached dwelling and also the addition for three unit detached dwellings as a conditional use within the mixed-use form-based midtown zoning district, as well just to align that, with the conditional use listed for the mixed-use form-based central avenue, zoning district.

J

uh Moving onward, um uh we had just uh discussed this uh with councilmember joshe, but this is just um showing the use allowances for the open space area, but this is something that we'll need to work on to better elaborate on through use specific standards or a different allowance for laboratory or research facility, and we are also proposing to change from the previous presentation allowing medical clinics as a permitted use of the mixed use form based central avenue.

J

Zoning district to conditional use, just because we've seen a lot of traffic impacts related to institutions and facilities that are providing medical services along central avenue. So there are some traffic related impacts that would probably be good to better examine and determine conditionally whether the sighting is.

J

Appropriate uh continuing onward another uh larger change is um allowing uh lower lower intensity uses within the mixed use, neighborhood edge zoning district with personal or business services, changing from a conditional to a permitted use and allowing artisan manufacturing.

J

We've definitely heard feedback that based on the stop and go nature for some personal or business services. But that's why this was originally designated as a conditional use.

J

So I think it's potentially an opportunity to again add more youth, specific standards for the operating characteristics or for the size of the proposed personal or business service to make it easier for the lower intensity, personal or business services to operate within mixed east neighborhood edge zoning district but again require more stringent requirements for higher intensity or larger personal or business services. Moving forward.

B

Zach, can you can you go back uh one slide. The conditional used for mixed use, central avenue made it conditional. Is it conditional for some of the other midtown okay? I wasn't sure for medical clinic. Why? Just for medical clinic uh south end it would be permitted.

B

um Warehouses, permitted, you're, not concerned about traffic in other areas,.

J

uh No, I think you know traffic and transportation and parking and access to a site are something that we look at for all projects. It's just, I think, with central avenue. Currently right now, um you know: we've seen a lot of instances where um there are traffic impacts for medicare, medicaid vans that are picking up and dropping off people for certain other uses as well. So I think again, with the more limited amount of parking for mixed use, form based central avenue.

J

I think it's good to think about that on a conditional level just to recognize there are certain transportation limitations right now within that zoning district, and similarly, that's why we have it as a conditional use for mixed-use form-based midtown as well um again.

B

Not at the south end, we wouldn't need it. There.

H

J

G

Certainly, but.

G

B

Just saying it could be an issue at some point in some of these other um community muci district. Could it be an issue? Let's say.

G

J

Yeah and I think for your point for mixie's form base uh south end, um definitely good to think about. um You know if there's a concern, um you know for the transportation elements there. That's uh definitely something good to think about um the reason we had it as permitted for uh mixed-use campus institutional is just because the use um aligns with and is usually more expected within that zoning district as well.

J

So that's why we were putting it as a permitted use, but again if there are use classifications or changes that you think we should look at happy to do that.

B

uh Mixed-Use dt that's downtown right.

B

What's the m-u-d-t again.

J

B

Downtown would should that be permitted, I mean, or are you can you run into the same problems with a medical clinic that type of medical clinic located there as far as traffic.

J

um I think you could, um I think again, it's more just that central avenue right now has a lot of um stop and go traffic and we've just seen um a lot of instances on central avenue where there are transportation impacts related to medical uses. um But again, that's something you'd like us to look at for other zoning districts happy to do that. Well,.

B

Just just pointing it out for the future, if a medical clinic did try did want to open up in the downtown area, it was just a thought. Nut.

I

We'll take a we'll take a look at our rationale for that apply it across the board and see what we come up with. Thanks for pointing.

G

J

And that could be a good use specific standard. Just for you know all zoning districts just to make sure that we're thinking about drop off and pick up specifically for the that use. Since that's an issue that might come up more.

B

J

You, um okay and any other questions for this.

G

J

um Continuing onward, another uh larger change was just the increased number of accessory uses within all zoning districts and then allowing for temporary farmers markets in the majority of zoning districts, except for the n a or the proposed n a zoning district. So this would include cabarets, electric vehicle charging stations sidewalk or outdoor cafes and again, farmers markets with farmers markets, we're looking to develop these specific standards just to ensure that there are not negative impacts um within you know.

J

The pk or the residential zoning districts as well and brad had covered some of this material in the previous meeting as well.

J

Any questions on this slide yeah.

E

And I'm getting confu, what's the a stand for again, please.

J

E

So it wouldn't be allowed. I mean you have a cabaret in a residential area. Is that what you're saying.

J

Are you asking about n a or are you just asking about the a classification yeah.

E

The a classification: what is the a stand for.

J

Got it sorry about that? A stands for accessory so.

E

Somebody like in my neighborhood could open up a cabaret next door to me, or is that.

J

So that would be an accessory use. So um part of the justification for this is um you know there are a lot of religious institutions that have, you know, amplified music for their um existing uh legal non-conforming, restaurants or establishments that already have live entertainment as an accessory component of the use. So this was just looking to recognize that in a lot of instances and cavalries go through a permitting process through the city clerk's office. So there is additional review.

J

um You know through council members, through city departments as well and there's an opportunity for public comment as well. So this was just looking to recognize that there are. You know: cabaret accessory cabaret uses already, in effect in residential areas, but just again still maintaining that there will be that review through the city, clerk's office and opportunities for public input and input from council members and city departments.

E

I wasn't aware of that and I'm kind of concerned that um somebody can open up an outdoor cafe right next door to me um you know I'm in a quiet residential, but um we've seen stranger things get approved. So um I guess it's something a lot to talk about. I guess hey tom.

I

E

I

I think the reason that we're adding those in is because there are separate, more behavior, behavioral oriented permits, specifically with the cabarets that do sort of control those uses, um particularly the cabarets. I mean it's really only a secondary regulation through our usdo. It's just basically saying that they're allowed as an accessory use generally they're regulated through that separate permit process.

I

um Cafes are a little bit different and I think you know, as we get into the youth specific standards for cafes, um which will probably be our next meeting. um We can talk more specifically about what sort of conditions we need on those in certain circumstances, because there are a number of other issues related cafes that we need to cover as well.

E

Okay, thank you.

I

F

I want to ask a question: um the golf course would that be park area, or would that be um n a natural area? I guess it would be park right, because I'm thinking about myself martells would be like an example where there's.

F

I believe that that is within the park area.

F

Yeah. I'm just wondering um you know we'll have to take a look at at your map. When you have an a, um I really don't know how many areas there are. That, then, are not a city park.

I

It would be, for example, uh the pine bush preserve. We would probably consider even tivoli preserve and perhaps the corning preserve. As you know, natural areas, and then there are a number of lands that are set aside as a part of cluster subdivisions or uh are in flood plain, um but yeah. We do need to get that map, and this was another uh area where we're going to produce a separate memo. Stating our rationale for um splitting that up into two differences- and you know different use allowances that we would be conveying in each district.

F

Great. Thank you.

G

B

Just go just going back to what tom just to make sure about the permitting process. I I'm not sure how much you've used that out in the 15th, um but that goes through the city clerk's office and we get all departments to weigh in about um whether or not the uh you know. For example, a cabaret should be located in a church. You know, is it disruptive and so on and so forth, but that's a whole separate process from the usda.

I

And, and cabaret is very, is, is more or less just live live music, um it's not that's, not acoustic, that's amplified um and yes, the process. I know at least the initial application for the establishment or for the the use the church would be subject to a public hearing.

I

I do think renewals are issued without a public hearing, but um I think the reason we went from regulating cabarets or live entertainment through zoning was it's more of a behavior-oriented enforcement effort, so that gave us the ability to enforce based upon behavior, which zoning is really not geared as well. To do that.

H

And if I may add, we have if we've received a large number of complaints when a permit has been issued for a cabaret requested the applicant to come in for a subsequent public hearing. We have that latitude.

J

Or if there's instances for repeated um police or fire instant incidents as well, I believe that also can prompt a new hearing as well, but correct me if I'm wrong on that daniel.

H

You are correct and there have been instances where a cabaret has been revoked, and um it has been noted that in this particular area we will not issue an or to this establishment. We will not issue an additional cabaret license until they remediate whatever the issues were.

F

I would like to suggest on this map that we add, as an accessory use in n a electrical vehicle charging station.

F

I think it's would be great to go to the pine bush and, while you're taking your hour, walk, be able to charge your car or tivoli or whatever.

J

We will add that.

F

What you'll add that great.

J

Yes, yeah yeah.

F

I mean we wouldn't have a lot of charging stations out there. So it's not like all sudden, you have. You know a guest, the equivalent of a gas station, but putting an outlet or two out there would be fabulous.

F

G

J

Tivoli any other questions for the accessory uses and farmers market.

J

Okay, um so now I'm going to move into some of the uses that we're looking to either completely remove or just limit on a larger scale, the first being just prohibiting all new pawn shops. Currently they're allowed as a conditional use within the mixed use community highway zoning district and they are permitted in the light industrial or iworn zoning district, and this just comes from the operating characteristics and negative land use, impacts that they have in terms of stop-and-go traffic and crime, which can also have additional traffic impacts as well.

F

Could you have you checked with a council's office on whether we can do that essentially prohibit a type of business, completely good point.

J

Yeah I mean I, I think we can check with them on that. um You know, usually, when you're looking to prohibit any new uh to prohibit a use. You usually just provide a justification similar to an environmental assessment just looking at the impacts of the use and why you're proposing to prohibit said use.

J

Which we would be looking to provide as part of this proposal.

K

Do we have any pawn shops in the city.

J

We do, I know we have one on central avenue and brad. It looks like you were a meeting so feel free to tack on.

I

Well, yeah, I mean, I guess you know, I guess, is there a consensus that we don't want any pawn shops? I mean I think there there there may be that consensus. I think it was something that was accommodated. We there really aren't that many of them and it may not be something. So certainly we want to get council's opinions.

K

If one is currently, if there is one on central, I think I remember one on central. I haven't seen that enough, it's there, but if it is there and operating, they would allow you allowed to continue as a grandfathered use or they would have to discontinue.

G

Yeah they would be.

I

B

I didn't realize there was stop and go traffic associated with pawn shops. Isn't that what you said, sir.

K

This does yeah, I mean central avenue.

B

Well that I know that I didn't know any was related to oh, it's connected with the other, stop and go traffic.

E

G

E

Well, I see three pawn shops on central 71, 137 and uh 13 21. um I don't know if that's colony or enough, but just let you know.

K

1321 might be colony.

B

Well, I'm fine with this.

G

J

um Moving onward, uh this is limiting the allowances for automobile washes, changing it from a permitted to a conditional use within the mixed use, community highway or much zoning district, removing as an accessory use from the mixed-use downtown zoning district and changing from an accessory permitted accessory use to a conditional use and the muci zoning district and removing it as an allowed use within the mixed-use form-based central ab.

J

Zoning district, while retaining is a conditional use in the light industrial and as a permitted use in the uh heavy industrial or i2 zoning district, and this is again just as an effort to try and move away from auto centric uses.

J

Automobile washes also just have a lot of environmental impacts for water usage and water contamination, as well so trying to reduce and in some cases remove that from zoning districts.

B

Why the difference between the i1 and i2 districts once conditional ones permitted.

J

I think it's because, for you know, i2 zoning districts. They are a lot of times, sites that are already pre-contaminated or have ground contamination already, whereas i1 it might not be um as likely. There are also probably situations uh where there are heavy vehicles that are washed. um You know, potentially within the port or within um the i2 district along I-90 that we might not be aware of as well. That would classify under that use.

J

So that's probably why um and they're, usually not as public-facing of zoning districts are as public-facing of the zoning district as well. So that's why they're currently uh is the difference between the two.

B

I say I never think of a car wash as being an environmental problem, so I feel better about never getting our car washed. Now.

F

um I am, I am wondering so a car rental place needs to have a car wash right, um I'm wondering if we're allowing for that. I don't know. If is hannaford, m-u-c-u or m-u-c-h. I forget.

J

F

All right so that would be allowed, and I think that um for my my dealership no longer does this, but some places when they do your car. They do a car wash at the same time.

F

So I'm wondering if there are any dealerships that we are then impacting, but I'm thinking that most of them would be in a much or muci.

B

Or the car rental, like you, haul, down on broadway there.

G

B

I don't know how.

G

J

Yeah and I think most of the dealerships um and car rental places are typically located within um much zoning districts. um You know the the u-haul on broadway, that's located in, I think that's mufs or I believe, or.

J

I

Would it be helpful for council members to be able to see maps go along with these proposed changes, show where it's currently allowed and where it would not be allowed as a result of the change? Yes,.

B

It is helpful sometimes to have a map in front of you.

B

F

I'm on your on our map geo. I have that map, so I'm looking at some of this stuff.

F

I don't um so yes, if that is not too taxing for staff to add that to the presentations. I'm thinking that that could be a lot of work. You might want some selected areas selected.

F

Topics as opposed to doing it to all, depending upon the amount of work that involves.

I

Okay, we'll take a look and uh we'll see what we identify and then, if we miss any, you can uh fill us in it's one of the things I think we'd like to show on map geo moving forward is to be able to. um You know if you're looking to do a certain use that it would actually highlight the properties uh that that use would be allowed. I think, would be very helpful, as opposed to just having to know that it's allowed in a district.

I

It's going to take a little bit of work, but we're we're talking about that.

B

Great. Thank you.

E

Yeah, I got a just a comment. um Car washes turn out to be probably more um environmentally better than people watching cars at home uh in the car, wash they the salt and the this I'm thinking of the wintertime- and I do wash my car quite often the winter time for safety reasons. um Keeping my glass clean, um also salt rots the metal in the car, um so you know and what they do. Is they recycle that water that goes through so, and you know maybe that study again.

E

This is what I've read years ago, but I mean we could look into it a little bit more, but I think it's more environmental friend, more environmentally friendly than just allowing people to wash cars in their driveway or you know somewhere else. I am concerned there are a lot of gas station. I know the mobile station up by me and I'm not sure of the district up there brad, but um if they have a small like one thing, uh one block building that cars, one at a time can go through and get clean.

E

I just want to see something like that. Go away. It's been very successful. um It's not like a massive uh traffic generator, but uh again I'm I don't know if it's already in this, uh the mixed use of which one it's in so.

I

Yeah tom, we could take a look at that. Maybe this is somewhere where we could um ask the sustainability committee to weigh in on the environmental side of things, but also I mean I, I think what is the bigger concern for me um in making this and again we're not prohibiting we're just making it conditional um is some of these larger um automobile, wash cleaning stations. I've seen there's one out gilda and on route. 20, for instance, are pretty significant in scope and would be uh you know something in the city.

I

I think we'd want to have a little bit of control over the the design and characteristics of that. So I think that could be a secondary reason to to pursue the change.

E

Yeah you're right and again, I'm even thinking at the dealerships they're not going to have a huge thing. They have it's just like a one booth uh car wash so one car at a time can go in and it's controlled and you're right. I'm thinking of colonial car wash up and juggle, and I mean they have vacuums. They have a bunch of stuff which wouldn't fit into a city environment. So I I appreciate that.

I

Good, this is a productive conversation.

F

All right, moving on from car washes.

J

uh This is transitioning into vehicle fueling stations um again as we're uh looking forward to people using alternative fuels or completely electric cars in the future, trying to shift away from new vehicle fueling stations. uh Again, this is promoting uh gasoline usage um in a large part and there's also just a lot of you- know: transportation, design, concerns and also when a site is abandoned after being used as a gas station.

J

um That creates a contaminated site which is known as a brandfield. So that requires a lot of funds in order to clean up to be reused for a different use, currently we're proposing to remove it from the majority of mixed use. Zoning districts, while still allowing for it in the mixed-use community highway zoning district as a permitted use and as an accessory use in the mixed-use campus institutional zoning district and as permitted within industrial districts.

J

um You know, I think this is something uh as mentioned in the memo. um It would be good to think about maybe including additional standards, potentially for prohibiting underground gasoline storage, incentivizing reuse for alternative fuels and just more stringent design standards for principal and accessory structures as well to make them friendly.

J

You know for pedestrians and cyclists as well, since a lot of times. These fueling stations have very large curb cuts and there can often be conflicts between cars themselves, as well as other types of modes.

F

It's an intriguing issue, um as I'm looking at this one of things I think about um is.

F

um That there are, there are some areas for which it can be very inconvenient for people to get their car filled up with gas um in historically underserved areas.

F

But you also don't want to have a lot of them, and I know that you had recently had an issue down on south pearl with a particular gas station and some modifications that people wanted to make to that.

F

But I look at. I look. For example, in the south end.

F

Is that the only gas station that services people down there and for somebody there to get on the highway? Where would they have to drive? If that particular gas station did not exist?.

B

Which? Which gas station jody.

F

This one right by the um the old dmv, where the board of elections is now.

E

I think there is a station in the port of albany I've gotten gas there in diesel.

I

I think we need a map and I think we wanted to start the broader conversation I mean, and it does say, vehicle fueling station, we're speaking more to gasoline fueling stations, but as we switch to renewable fuels, uh you know what are those you know. It may be a totally different scenario, and I think we just need to be conscious that these are fields, and we see an example like on colvin and washington, where a new gas station wants to locate directly across from an old gas station.

I

um You know, I I think it's it's like like judy said it was intriguing from my perspective too, and again, maybe this is a sustainability sort of sustainability committee discussion that we can collaborate with them on getting some more details from which direction to go.

F

So I I think I wonder if this is one of those things that you put a sort of a sunset on new approach. You know, like maybe in five years, revisit the issue, um but in the meantime also like I don't have a problem with um the potential of my neighborhood losing the one gas station that it has um and then there's a couple gas stations within a half mile to a mile that people would have to go to. Instead, that does not seem to me to be particularly uh burdensome, but.

B

Which gas station are you talking about? Well,.

F

It's the mobile gas station shut down, you know one, do you mean the one on quail.

B

In new scotland yeah, so if that's.

G

B

I use all the time. No, I'm just kidding.

F

The one that my husband uses all the time because I sent him to um uh you know, but then we would drive to stewards or we would go over to delaware, avenue kathy and that would not be a tremendous hardship. It certainly is, you know, convenient, but it does.

B

Well, you save on the weekends by going up to the mobile up by uh further.

G

B

Scotland avenue so you.

F

Can go there too yeah and actually come to think of it. They have there's like three up there in that area.

F

I wouldn't mind losing one of them, but, um uh and- and I and I do think that we.

F

I think that we probably need two different classifications of fueling vehicle fuel, like a vehicle fueling station being uh gas or diesel and another one for.

F

We have electrical charging. Is that only an accessory use? Is that what we've done with that? I wonder if we want to bring that out of accessory use.

F

um Yeah, so we have electrical vehicle charging stations as accessory uses.

J

Yeah, I think the way that I distinguish it and brad correct me. If I'm wrong in this is, I think, with electric vehicle charging stations, those are an accessory use where um the act of charging the vehicle is not um as a service or four fee, so it's not being monetized, whereas with the vehicle fueling station, the act of charging your vehicle would be monetized.

F

All right, so I I do think that it's worthwhile to break it out into gas, diesel and and electric, because I think, over time and and with regard to how we view this, it's going to be different. um Hannaford has, for example, an electrical charging station um there, and we wouldn't want to encourage, like another gas station, to be located um there, but we so we may want to be more permissive with regard to vehicle charging stations in this category um uh and fueling.

F

And I and I- and I just think doing that now I mean I don't know how many distinctions we'll make now, but doing it now and looking to the future and being very conscious of um what we're encouraging and what we're restricting is important.

I

We we are declaring a climate emergency. After all,.

B

I I do think this is. uh This is kind of a big step, but I I think it makes sense, um and I also think you know we're not talking about design standards here, but that's a big issue. I imagine we'll talk about that later, because um even some of our gas stations that currently exist, I mean they're all so many of them are becoming these mega stations, and um you know with the stores and then the huge. uh I don't know what you call it over the pumps.

B

Yes and it just becomes this beacon that really doesn't fit in a lot of times. I've seen them put up in smaller, um smaller villages at different places and they're. So um out of sync with the rest of the the buildings there, you know, because you know the zoning doesn't prevent it in a lot of places.

B

So if uh I don't know if it's an issue for any of the gas stations that are currently here, a lot of them have already gone that route. um But I think it's something we should look at.

F

Yeah brad, have you guys been thinking about that? I mean you know so out central avenue and colony. You know there was a there's like a big new huge. You know cumberland farms and another one um out in gilderlin. I think near 156 or something like that- might work for those areas, but certainly something that seems out of scale for what we are likely to to want in the city.

I

I mean it's, it's very difficult to design the gas stations in a way. That's um you know sympathetic to the general character of the city, um it's sort of like you learn to live with them. To a certain degree, I mean we tried uh colvin and washington, for instance, um to get the building up to the street, but then we had you know they still want the door to be on the back.

I

If you put the gas pumps in the back so then you have a building with up to the street without a door on it. So it's very difficult um to design them. I mean they. I I've seen it. It has been done on corner lots. It's particularly difficult where gas stations tend to locate.

I

um So we we do have at least some guidance uh in the form-based codes in our zone in our zoning right now, and we have tried uh in other districts that are more urban type districts to um to look at and new designs. But you know kind of uh reluctant partners in the gas station industry.

F

So um I do think we probably need to move on, but I the as we are talking about this, the beauty of electrical charging stations. Is they don't you don't have to have uh you know a whole setup?

F

Essentially you can have them be curbside.

F

And you know or like in the you know, hannaford parking lot.

F

There's you know just two places where you can park your car and just you know plug it in while you go and shop or something like that, and so I'm just thinking that, maybe if we were to make them um permitted in pretty much all areas, you know having it be, having some design standards that make it not be accompanied by a store kind of thing uh so that so that they are, you know I mean I believe that they pretty much could be located pretty much any place.

I

Yeah, I think there are two separate issues, there's the design issue, but then there's the sort of environmental issue and the fact that we're transitioning away from uh seemingly gasoline-powered vehicles- um maybe not entirely, but um you know knowing that these sites, these these uses have environmental consequences.

I

You know um I can't say that I've read a book on it yet um so I don't know, there's still a lot to learn, I think, but what will become of the gas station sites in the city? Are they just going to switch to? uh You know a different type of rental fuel, maybe not as you're suggesting it could be a totally different way of doing empowering vehicles so um you're, starting to think about that now. I think we'll be ahead of the curve.

B

Yeah, um I see, I see your hand, I'm sorry judy tom.

E

B

Hand, you have more to say.

E

Oh yeah, I haven't had a chance to jump in here. Wait.

B

A minute wait, wait, I'm sorry judy did you have? Are you done.

F

I I just want to say um it seems like jason, would be a good person to test him with coming up with some recommendations.

I

Tom tom may know a little bit about this. I don't go.

B

Ahead time, I'm sorry thank you. I didn't.

E

See your hand yeah, that's all right, I didn't have it up. I was trying to jump in and then finally I put it in so you know I my household, we have five cars between me and my wife. um I have a tractor which runs on diesel. I have a motorcycle, that's gas um and you know I'm a car. I've been one of my first words was car key. uh According to my parents. Oh I love cars, but you know, let's, let's look at the reality and you've touched on on.

E

What I wanted to say is by 2035. General motors is not going to be producing, uh combustible engines anymore, um and you know electric is going to be one thing that we're going to do and uh you know we do have it at the university. We have electric stations, there's two. um They come in a stanchion that will uh charge up two cars at a time, but we also gotta look at besides. Electric hydrogen is another um type of fuel that toyota has been buying into.

E

I know plug power, is a local company here, they're doing forklifts and stuff, but eventually that's going to reach out to cars and hydrogen is highly explosive. um That's what the hindenburg blew up with.

E

So you know, storing the hydrogen and stuff like that. If we do go to, that um is a consideration also, right now and a lot of people don't realize, um and I know a lot of the state fleet uses natural gas uh compressed natural gas is another fuel that that's being used. So um there's a lot of stuff out there. Another consideration in the old days a gas station would open up would be like a mom-and-pop uh place. It wasn't.

E

The store would be an actual place where you go in and get your car worked on. If you were having a problem- and you didn't want to you know- you couldn't afford to go to uh the dealer. So, and I don't know you know this says fueling station. So I don't know if that covers auto repair brad. So that was one of my questions for you. um How do we deal with auto repair? Is that a separate category.

I

Yes, it is um yeah, we have two, we have heavy vehicle repair, we have a light vehicle repair, okay,.

E

And I know tesla, you know they'll come to your house and fix the car. You know at your house um so yeah it. I, I think, being ahead of the the curve and being prepared. My own feeling is that electric I mean we have electric motorcycles now the cars the tesla's have really shown what can happen. um Volkswagen is going to go totally electric.

E

um You know they have the new bus, the the old hippie bus is going to be electric and I have my eye maybe to sell most of my cars and get just one of those. But um you know there's a lot of points. I just also wanted to bring up. I buy most of my gas at bj's because that's 10 cents cheaper than everybody else and I'll drive that distance just to get that cheaper gas. So um I think, having a lot of gas stations in the city isn't as critical as one might.

E

You know there is places you can go to get it so, um but thank you. I just wanted to get that stuff out there. Thank.

B

B

Okay, can we move on.

G

J

uh Continuing onward with self storage facility, um we've seen a preponderance of these show up within the warehouse zoning district, um so we're looking to limit their usage as well. You know a lot of times uh with that being the sole use. Those also have you know, impacts with moving traffic with trucks and also with storage as well, and a lot of times, they're, not activating or really improving the community.

J

For you know social benefits a lot of the times they might be improving the structure that they're located within or creating a new structure that has some design elements, but a lot of the elements that we're trying to look for within mixed use um are not really being met with current self-storage facilities, so looking to remove those allowances within the mixed use districts, while still allowing them within the industrial zoning districts.

E

I have a comment on that uh is that you know who the most people who use these facilities are.

J

My guess would be renters which we're seeing more of but correct me if I'm wrong on that.

E

Well, no, I'm just making you guess, I'm sorry, but the number one use is people when they get divorced. um You know and that's that's the big thing when people get divorced, that you know they split up the household and they need a place to put their stuff while they're trying to figure out what to do with the rest of their lives. um So I just want to make sure that we're aware of that. um You know. I don't know what the divorce rate is. I know at one time it was very high.

E

It was more than 50 percent. um So again, you know. I know that. There's the storage place that I've used on uh on by the hudson river there down right on the edge of the port. um I know, there's a storage facility, I think, on central avenue.

E

um You know down in the cauldin area uh so and it's next to the highway. So I'm just hoping that we don't totally.

E

You know, I don't know if places be grandfathered in or not, but um I think it does serve a purpose for for for our residents.

J

Yeah- and I I don't disagree with that- you know whatsoever and whether you're getting divorced or whether you're, maybe taking on things from a family member who's passed along or you're in a relationship, maybe where you're not married, because you know a lot of people are not getting married as frequently but still have the same issue of splitting up household items as well. It's important to think about we've just seen you know, there's two existing u-hauls along 787 and there's a self-storage facility along I-90, there's two existing u-haul facilities, also in bananas as well.

J

So it seems like there is a good number of u-hauls and other similar self-storage facilities within the city. So I'm looking to really identify you know: are we saturated with this use? Is it serving enough people that it needs to you know if it is, then this makes sense and if not, maybe looking to figure out a way where it's still meeting those needs, but doing it in a way where it doesn't inhibit growth and has an opportunity for um more benefits than it's we're currently seeing now from a lot of facilities.

E

Yeah, the environmental impact too, is pretty low with them. They don't have any type of uh you know, electricity use most of them, um or you know I just don't see anything uh that would add to the greenhouse gas, except for the cars pulling in and loading stuff off and on. But, like you just said, when I was making a guess, we do have an awful lot of apartments going up in the city and if people are moving from apartment apartment, you know they need a temporary place to put their stuff.

E

It might be something to keep in mind. Thank you.

F

So I'm wondering if, um in some of these cases, we want to make it an accessory use.

F

To encourage an apartment house to maybe include, as part of their design plans some self-storage units for people who don't want to get a two-bedroom, but they need you know more storage than a two-bedroom, a one-bedroom uh offers.

F

um The other thing I just wanna comment on is the whole time we were talking about the usdo. We talked about how we wanted to recognize uses that exist in certain areas so that we didn't have so many that were considered to be non-conforming use, and this is kind of going counter to that.

F

I'm not a big fan of um these being part of the urban, the routine urban fabric. So I do I like the idea of putting it in the industrial areas, but I do wonder if it may be something that we need to accommodate as an accessory use for some places.

B

My initial thought was that I was very comfortable with this too, because I just see them popping up everywhere, um and you know I guess I didn't have. I really didn't think it through tom until you talked about a little bit of uh you know of the real need. um I I I I see them my thought. Was you know that people end up just leaving stuff in these storage facilities?

B

It's an alternative to on not dealing with your stuff moving it on uh and so on so forth. But you know I hear what you're saying about zach about renters tom you what you're saying about broken up households, um so you.

G

B

There's there's a lot to consider here, uh but I I I do tend to agree with you judy that it doesn't fit in real well with the urban fabric as you've mentioned, um and you know I I like to see them in industrial areas. I.

B

J

Any other questions or comments on this.

E

Brad um the storage place it's right by home depot on central avenue. um Do you know, is that zoned industrial or do you know what the zoning there is? I.

I

Think it's owned a mixed use: community highway.

F

I

I mean you know we may want to take a more temperate approach. There are perhaps existing buildings that I could see um this being a potentially good reuse, or at least an interim reuse.

I

um You know I do think we need to be conscious of you know when these are located in a commercial zone uh in a neighborhood district or even a community scale, urban district, um that that really doesn't provide any vibrancy or life streetscape. So I think there at least needs to be a combination of other uses in conjunction with them on the ground level or something to that effect and, like you said that mixed use community highway, I mean you know, maybe we should consider that as a conditional use or something to that effect.

I

um You know they. They did seem to find like the perfect place on on russell road at the end of the road for that uh self storage facility uh that wasn't much so, okay, you.

E

Got me nervous by my house.

I

North russell road.

E

Hey brad, I just noticed now it says allowance for a new self storage, so existing ones would be okay. That was my concern.

I

Yes, although you know as judy sort of alluded to, they would become non-conforming. So we do need to be conscious we're making something non-conforming, that there are potential uh impacts on them uh wanting to expand or alter or potentially obtain a loan or a financial uh line of credit. So um they they would continue to be permitted. But we, you know, we always do need to be aware of those consequences.

I

So we'll see where self-storage facilities are in the state currently, and that may be able to guide us a little bit as to how many we have out there.

F

The area around memorial hospital is also community highway uh and I don't know that I would love to see this kind of thing um around there and then there's um the area around mount hope um and the thruway exit area that is community highway.

F

um uh You know here's the thing I a lot of it has to do with the design of them as much. You know the current design, these you know tin shacks with you know, garage doors and bright orange and beige and whatever- and I do wonder, um uh brad when you're you know the idea of um having, I want to say an elevator building, potentially of three stories in the first story being um having commercial uses in it. uh You know other uses in it and having storage uh be above.

F

That uh would be something if the building was designed, essentially so that it could be easily converted to a residential building or something um that that that might not be offensive. That might not be problematic and it's a better land use, because you are using the first floor for some vibrancy.

B

I think that's a great point. I like.

G

A

Idea, I have a question real quick if we make them non-conforming uses and they want to expand. I just want to hear that would impact um their financing or any expansion in the future correct.

I

I mean yeah banks do look at that when they're extending alone, whether if something were to be destroyed or or couldn't be rebuilt in kind for whatever reason, maybe a higher rate or it may be, a decline.

A

Okay, because I know one thing I know I you know I my first coming into albany was because I attended the university and storage units were a big thing for the undergrads and graduates, because the ovary, you know some of them- are here year-round. Some of them are here just for the season.

A

You know just for the for the semesters, but I know it was a big thing, but with this we're just limiting brand new ones, but if is there a way, maybe to like a mechanism where we can limit the new ones but still keep the conforming uses, because I just know that some storage units, they they're a thriving business I'll, be honest, they're, a thriving business, but they do contribute to um housing shortage as well, because it's cheaper to run a storage unit and to build a build, a house or an apartment building.

A

So I just wonder if maybe you know, because of the our our landscape with a lot of colleges here, if this would impact the overall? um Would that like have a substantial impact on uh viability for college students when they come in.

I

I think that's a a good question. There have been many good questions on this one, so we have a follow-up.

J

To and I think also just looking at the regional impacts, too, of how many people from outside of the city are storing. You know uh items uh with in here as opposed to city residents, using that as well, because we also don't want the city to be. You know a dumping ground for people's stuff as well. We want it to be something that's used by city residents and supporting city residents.

A

Very absolutely.

J

I

J

um Continuing onward um for drive-in or drive-through facility um removing this as either an accessory or conditional use um in the majority of mixed-use zoning districts, while still allowing for it in the mixed-use community, highway zoning district and the um both industrial zoning districts and a lot of this comes from again. The environmental impacts that drive-throughs have with idling, and there are also a lot of design aspects too, where the design of buildings to accommodate a drive-through don't promote good urban design.

J

We've seen a lot of drive-throughs pop up and become more used through covid, um but again they still leave out people who don't have access to cars who are walking or cycling certain uses, and they want to also see you know the benefits for grab-and-go service as well.

J

So I think this could be something you know, while we're seeing a lot of national chains wanting to increase the use of this trying to curb that and promote. um You know quick and convenient service for people who own or don't own cars as well, whether whether that be you know, a pickup window that you walk to um or promoting the idea that um you know people who employees who work at these facilities bring out goods or services to people to their cars.

J

So I think it's just trying to get again better design, not promoting as much car usage, um while still recognizing that this is something that we've seen increase over the past year, whether that'll keep up as we continue out of covid is, you know, a little to be determined, but there are options to get at the same effect using other design solutions.

E

Does that include banks? I mean uh I use cue and a lot of times I'll use the drive through drive up uh atm machine and again I don't. I don't know the zoning down by uh petroon creek. It might be.

J

Highway, I'm not sure again. This is looking at new drive-in or drive-through facilities. This wouldn't be um looking at a sunset provision for existing ones.

J

I believe it's much or mucu.

E

Okay, but I don't see that this is for new.

I

Tom, it's a substantial change, it would be a substantial change and we we see a lot of consternation. I think, with drive-throughs, when they're proposed.

G

It's not universally.

I

The case, but um you know I think it's worth having a conversation of whether we need or want these uh in our communities, then you know, would go from there.

E

No- and I understand- and you know chase manhattan that you know that I I fought like hell to get up by me- they didn't even want to drive through um they want people to park and they'll walk over to the uh to the window, but I'm thinking there's drug stores um and would covet being. You know there was times where you couldn't go in um like to do your banking and stuff. But if there was a drive through there, you could um do your banking.

E

So I'm hoping we don't ever get hit with another type of epidemic like govid, but we can't predict the future, so it's definitely worth talking about. But what really gets me nervous because I'm not from downtown I'm from the uptown area, where you can't get around without a car I mean or a bicycle in a bike. I wouldn't want to ride a bicycle in the snow and I wouldn't want my son driving a bicycle on russell road brad, as you know how dangerous that is, or even walk on it.

E

But um again I agree with you that we should talk about it, but I get nervous that um you know. I would like to see it maybe conditional that, where we have a little bit more say that if it is needed, we could put something in. So that's just my opinion.

B

um I I I it is. It is a very controversial issue. um Just recently they pulled their application, but popeyes wanted to open up on the corner of hackett and holland avenue.

B

You know that they put in an application and they their design, includes a drive-through and that's very important to that fast food company- and you know a lot of people were very much against that. uh We were happy when they pulled the application. Another place I can think of is the banks fq over on lower new scotland.

B

They have a set up where you can do your banking drive through, but they also have that's, also where you can walk up and uh to the window to do you to the atm and it's just so crazy to have that be at the same place where cars can pull up and then I think, uh judy the trusco bank over on new scotland near us.

B

I remember years ago, before they had the drive-through and what a a great little bank that was you had to park, you had to go in. It was very homey and so on and so forth and now of course, they've got the drive-through, so you don't ever have to go in and talk to the you know the people behind the counter.

B

um You know it's really a little less. It's fast. It's quick, it's convenient, but there is something to be said for having to park. Get out of here, get or walk up. You know we have such a walkable neighborhood on new scotland avenue and go and do your business.

B

um So I see both sides of this but uh and I and tom I get it up in the 15th ward. You know you really have to drive. You can't really walk to these banks and.

E

You know just to counter, you know we're all heading towards um you know old age and as you get older, it gets a lot harder to walk. um You know I had attacks of gout and there's no way I could walk. I mean my foot was so swell in the pain, but I'm able to get into a car and drive. I mean um we gotta and it's hard I mean environmentally.

E

You know I I understand it, but what happens if we do switch over to electric cars? I mean we'll be doing the same type of polluting and stuff and again I bring up about kobe. You couldn't go into that bank uh during the height of the epidemic. So what do you do? You have no money, I mean it's.

E

F

I'd like to chime in here, I don't like drive-throughs, I mean, I think you know a mcdonald's, drive-through or burger king. You know on central avenue uh is fine. I wasn't thrilled with the push to have the drive-through um for that bank, but kathy. I gotta tell you, I love the design of the bank, it is to me it's so much more friendly. I don't use the drive-through, um you know I will walk in um and it is handicap accessible. I hated that ugly wooden ramp that they had uh previously.

F

It was just not you know designed. Well, um I think it's um a more.

F

You know we we made sure we listened to um uh jack alvarez and his recommendation to make sure the design of it was a little bit more consistent with the other buildings on our commercial street, and I think it it so I like that, but I don't care about um the drive-through and I gotta say that in all the times that I drive back along um ontario, I have never once seen somebody pulling out of um the drive-through in that area, so I don't think it was necessarily needed. The other thing I got to say.

F

I think I'm in a bank once a year- I don't I kind of I kind of don't under under no. It helps that tom goes. You know to the bank, but generally I mail in deposits. I have direct deposit, I have direct pay. You know out of my account, um I you know, I know most people know how to do you know, deposit by you know using their their phone.

F

Whatever I get, when I need cash, I get it out of an atm, so so that whole thing you know with with regard to banks needing this, um I I wonder real I mean it does it did help during covet. You know for a lot of people and I think that um businesses probably um use banks a little bit more than you know and need the physical structures. I am concerned about us losing um those storefronts.

F

You know the storefront um banks um and what you know what they will be used for uh in the future, but um I I think it's appropriate to limit drive-throughs. I don't know.

F

F

I I I don't. I don't know if an absolute ban on them is appropriate, so much as putting a different kind of series of restrictions on their approval. I don't know if a conditional use permit is appropriate.

F

um A variance seems maybe a little too harsh in some places, but um in in general I wouldn't mind floating this without having um drive-throughs and see what other people think about that. The the main thing I hate about drive-throughs is, um as somebody who walks a lot, um is that they create unexpected uh traffic.

F

um You know it's it's it's not great walking along and having both an entrance and.

G

F

To uh deal with when it comes to um drive-throughs, so there's two curb cuts associated with it and through traffic uh on it, often in addition and and often they need additional space in the way of a curb cut. Because here's where you go to the drive-through and here's where you go into the parking flat area.

F

G

Yeah, that's a good.

F

B

So what do you want to do with this planning staff.

I

B

I

I I think we wanted to put it out there and just kind of uh float the subject and see what kind of feedback I don't think we're tied to any specific answer, but something that comes up a lot and it's healthy to have a conversation.

I

So for now I think we gotta move on.

J

um And then uh brad had mentioned um the addition for uh short-term rentals. Potentially this is listed as a right now, but again we're looking to get feedback on short-term rentals going forward. um Just something to think about. You know we we see, you know, there's a lot of airbnbs throughout the city which I think was brought up at the last meeting, but there could be potential options. um You know within um you know, for things like glamping or outdoor short-term rentals as well. So just something to think about.

J

You know as we're looking through this. Whether this is something that's addressed now or through a separate ordinance. um Lamping.

J

Yeah so just more formalized campsites.

F

J

It's a it's a portman too, of uh I think glamour and or just glam and camping.

F

Okay, okay, I have heard that before I'm sorry, we.

A

Do a lot on roosevelt island.

B

Where would we glamp here in albany.

B

G

Park, yeah and.

B

Where on earth is their albany glamping, because I'm in I'm totally in but.

H

D

B

Curious, where it.

D

B

It figures ginny, would pop up now along the.

F

E

No, oh, I got a couple acres if anybody wants to come and rent the site I'll be glad to do it.

B

We can all have an outing at toms and glamp, oh boy, that would be newsworthy.

J

And I think on even a more informal end, we've heard some interest, I think within tivoli, not for anything permanent um and usually glamping is a little bit more permanent. But doing you know even just starting to do like educational outreach um through camping and programming for kids, but you know even thinking about that going forward if there's areas in the city, where maybe there's an educational element or programming element along with camping without you know those physical modifications. Thinking about that, just as we're developing short-term rental standards.

E

um I got a question you know this came up in my neighborhood.

E

um People are afraid that um with the grouper law that how many people can be in a residence like or an apartment or a house how many different and in talking to rick with joy, there's really no way to enforce it, um and you know just bring up. How do you know if somebody's short-term or not, and how would you enforce it? If you know the short-term became you know like with an airbnb with like a half-year lease or a year lease? How would we regulate that.

I

We don't know yet.

I

Judy asked the same question. I think it's a good question. I you know I'm confident that there's there's a way to ways to do these things, but uh you know we need that. We need to talk to rick and others about that.

F

Devil's in the details.

B

Right yeah- and I mean there are other cities that have uh regulated this, so that you know the city keeps track of where all the airbnbs are they're required to register with the city and so on and so forth. There's we have to get hold of some model legislation on it, because it is an issue. I um we have a whole house just up the street from me. That's um an airbnb rental and I that little strip over near me on new scotland thanks to judy and uh the new cafe area out there.

B

It's it's a really desirable place, all those restaurants, so it's kind of a great place for these rentals. So I can just I do have this vision of them quite a few of them popping up right in this neighborhood, and how do you limit it because it does it does after a while, um you know change the quality of the neighborhood a little bit and is that what you want? So I think it's definitely something we have to look at.

F

I'm I'm also very concerned about how short-term rentals can change the affordability of housing in an entire neighborhood or entire um city, when, when somebody can make um you know five thousand dollars renting out something you know a month um as opposed to. Maybe you know if it was a long-term rental getting you know, 1500 or 2000?

F

That makes a big difference and I have visited cities and stayed in airbnbs where um some lovely locations um have essentially were taken over by that uh and in in, in some cases, seemingly to make the area a ghost town.

F

So we have to be real careful about um this as an issue.

G

J

Yeah we've seen that in hudson new york too, where there's you know high preponderance of airbnbs as well. So I think you know we're not quite to that point yet. So it's a good time to look at that to avoid those situations and uh make sure that the city still can be affordable and I'm sorry, council member, go on sure.

E

No, I was gonna one of the things I was gonna bring up like judy said. If, if I rent out a place and it's five thousand a month, um you know who gets that you know: does the owner keep the money or does the city for providing services and stuff?

E

You know, how do we get any kind of revenue out of that and it could add work to our. You know our fire department, our police and other other things. So I don't know how other cities have worked that out, but it's it's definitely worth thinking about.

I

I believe it would be the hotel tax, but I think that has to happen at a county level. So that's certainly a part of this conversation, and you know this is you know something that we know we need to to work on? I don't know you know when we'll have a clear resolution as to what what to do there's a lot of moving parts, but um this is generally how cities regulate them through zoning code would be through a short-term rental provision.

F

I want to note that we are less. We are just barely halfway through this presentation. I appreciate um staff um doing this whole presentation. um I'm I'm wondering if it makes sense to uh go through the less the rest and maybe have a little less dialogue on it, and I I'm I'm guilty here.

I

Yeah I can I can. I think I can do it. I think quickly.

B

Is there a time at which we should agree to end 8 30, exact work for people.

F

I I would, I would say I probably have about a half an hour in me before I completely lose the ability to focus so 8 20.. Is that.

E

I just like to add that I'd hate to rush through this um I mean that was what happened with the original usdo. It was kind of pushed through without understanding. I really appreciate the line by line detail that we're going over this. This is a tremendous amount of work, um but thank you, for you know everybody for working with me.

I

Sure, well, the the good news is sort of um just an intro to some of the other things where we're looking at doing or considering with article true too, it's probably not going to generate too much dialogue, so I think I can get through it pretty quickly.

I

Zach you want to you, you got the powerpoint, so I guess I'll just say when, when I switch here.

I

Okay, so so article two uh is a section of the code that really lays out the zoning districts that are available within the city. um There are currently six uh residential districts, ten mixed use, districts and three special purpose districts as zach had sort of spoken to previously.

I

um Those special purpose districts really should probably be more industrial districts and then open space districts. So we're looking at changing the two classifications, and I I sent around a separate sheet that just uh put put the individual districts and their purpose statements which are important to look at um and consider as well as new images that we've had produced that. uh Well, not perfect. I think they're a lot better than what's currently in the code, um the images in the in the code.

I

Now um you know they don't really have sidewalks in the right place. They don't really have trees um and other you know, sort of considerations that are natural and that we want to see in the urban environment. So certainly we don't want to create the impression that um you know a district is all buildings and nothing else, and that's sometimes what the existing images too. So I'm just going to go through them quickly here, zach, if you um actually, if you could skip two ahead, these are duplicate, slides.

G

Actually, right right, sorry.

F

Go ahead, brad I've been through this. I two things.

D

F

Of all, I think that, um hopefully, some people had a chance to read your memo regarding the changes that are being made. What we're seeing here now, I just want to be clear. What we're seeing here now is what article 2 essentially would be condensed to. This would be the entire article 2 as revised. Is that correct.

I

I'm going to get into that further in the slide I just wanted to go over, but generally yes, most of the content in article 2 is either duplicative or should reside somewhere else within the code, so we're proposing to just simplify it and have the the different districts purpose statements and the graphic image. uh The rest of the content would either be relocated or it's already existing somewhere else. In the code.

F

And I want to endorse this number one number two, um these slides. This information is now on slides that are horizontal and they were provided to us as horizontal, and I want to caution us on changing a code and having the pages go sideways.

F

You can accomplish this vertically by having the text portion of these, for the most part be narrower. You know less wide cells in this, and I think you can get it into a you know. A vertical format.

I

This could be what it would look like this. This was just so uh council members could get an idea of the individual districts without overthinking of it overthinking it just here's the here's, the district, here's its purpose and here's a general image of what that district looks like. um So it's separate from any code change I'm going to get into the the changes as we move forward.

H

I

So zach, I think you can go through these really quickly. I mean anyone can follow up and consult them. Just click through these.

I

I

So we would appreciate council members taking a look at those purpose, statements specifically and any feedback. uh The first couple, as you saw those were changes that we had already talked about with respect to uh changing uh single family to single unit, et cetera, um next slide.

I

Okay, this is just to give it so. The first section in each of these uh article, two uh zoning districts, is the concept drawing, and this just shows the example of what pre-existing image in the rt I'm using the rt district as an example. So we don't go through every district there'll be similar changes made to every district. This shows the rt image before and the rt image. uh The new image that was purchased so zach can go to the next and then uh section b of each district. Section is the purpose statement.

I

uh As you saw you know, each district has a purpose statement. uh I'm not going to read that here, although I do want to point out there is this um compliance with other standards required table. That appears in each section.

I

To me that speaks to more of a guidance document that was in a draft of the code. I don't really see its purpose in the in the general code. Certainly we don't want to convey that any of the standards aren't applicable and really the only section that's not listed here out of the uh the 375.4 would be 375 402, which is form based zone. So really that's the only difference you're going to see in any of these tables, so our proposal is just to remove those tables.

I

I don't think that there's a lot of help given via those references and it does take up a lot of space within the code.

F

I always thought it was a waste.

I

um So for the dimensional standards: now you know these charts and the axon axonometric images that accompany the them. That's the image on the top which each district is provided. They are kind of cool to look at. We could see using these potentially as sort of cheat sheets moving forward.

I

However, all of the um the same um dimensional standards that are shown here also exist in 375-4 and they're, more condensed in that there's a table for all of the residential districts and their respective standards, uh the commercial districts, uh special purpose and so forth, um and as we looked, we were um going through our past sort of um you know, uh draft of this of this uh six month or whatever review.

I

We were looking at adding some standards here and it just became really complicated, because then we were going to have to go and update each of these individual images. So what we're thinking of doing is taking this exonometric drawing or a couple of these and putting them in a a separate section in the back called rules of construction, it would accompany the definitions and it would really just this could really. In most cases, you know could be a detached building, but the standards are generally the same.

I

You know it's showing you your minimum setback, your side, setback, your building heights, etc.

I

um So we think having that condensed all in one location, since it is somewhat the same sort of it's, it's graphically depicting the same thing in a lot of cases uh in a more complex way, and then you know the standards uh again being located elsewhere in the code. I don't think we need to go here um and just adding some additional images like this is an example of something that we could include in that rules of construction. That um shows the current. This speaks to the current regulations for building stories.

I

uh As we're going through this process, I believe we're going to propose a building height and feet in addition to stories so that we can control. um You know, sites that have different elevations and things of that nature.

I

I think the original intent of story was to not sort of have people cram into this arbitrary limit, but I think you can do both and still accomplish that purpose. So next section would be the district standard, so rt has a good number of district standards. They are generally. Some of them are specific, but you're. Looking at number b here, I won't go through all of them, but portions of the ground floor a basement floor, a residential structure that was physically constructed or adapted to accommodate non-residential uses.

I

So this is your typical storefront property and when you're in a townhouse district or you're in some other districts, it's all also appears in r2 and rm multi-family.

I

uh You have these buildings that were built with a storefront on a corner that are pre-existing and it didn't make sense to label each of those individually and create this sort of checkerboard zoning map, where you had a mixed-use, neighborhood edge property here and enrt district property here, so we circled the whole district rt.

I

But then we put in these certain carve out allowances that if you had this pre-existing building type with a storefront, we really don't want to see you put an apartment in there and have big drapes in the window and it really just doesn't look appropriate or attractive. In addition, some light commercial uses can add some vibrancy and be appropriate within neighborhoods. uh You can see the hours as well.

I

uh 8 am to 10 pm is rather constricted, so how we propose dealing with this standard, for example, on you know, given that we're relocating uh all the district standards are proposing to I'm just giving an example of how we do that zach. If you go to the next slide, our solution for this would be to add the allowance in the permitted use table with a uh a footnote of sorts that would speak to that provision. So that's allowing that's showing you that you know the r2rt.

I

This use is permitted, but only if, in that you got to look at number one. Only in that circumstance um there's a lot of people miss that now um and it's not totally fair when you're reading a table and it's conveying something and it's not being highly truthful because that is allowed. There are other cases where something says it's allowed, but it's really heavily restricted through a proximity uh radius. I mean blood plasma or something like that. We'd probably have a foot note in the table as well.

I

So if blood plasma says c, it says well, you actually have to check that and the idea there was you check the use, specific standards and you check the district standards which are listed in the current table at the top.

I

But it's just a really bit really real too much to have people going all over to find a quick answer to their question and we think this could.

I

Provide um another example of of content, probably being in the wrong place. um This was uh you know something we added for pre-existing residential properties, because townhouse district in particular have a lot of multi-family properties um just the way we, in fact, there are whole blocks that are largely multi-family, but that are zoned townhouse, and what we generally heard from constituents in these areas was that they were okay with most of the existing multi-family properties. They acknowledged them. They had been there for a while, but they didn't want to necessarily see new multi-family properties.

I

So that's the reason this content exists basically says it doesn't apply those same provisions that we apply in the case of um zac. If you go to the next slide,.

F

Well, wait for so brad, so that b is a new standard. That would also be being added to.

I

No, it's an existing standard, it's just it's just in the wrong place. It's in the district standards. um It's really a it's really speaking to a pre-existing development and non-conformity, or a right, that's being conveyed to that that's different than other interesting non-conformities.

I

So you see the current language that exists. This is essentially an opt-out or carve out of this provision for those certain types of buildings, those multi-family buildings in rt that were constructed that way or have been converted that way that are allowed to exist and are considered conforming.

I

um It's a very convoluted, convoluted way of getting at that issue. It would have been easier to just say that block is owned, multi-family and put in provision for the conversions, but due to a variety of reasons. uh That's not the way it turned out, but I think it resulted in because you know we were specifically speaking to that targeted issue.

I

It made sense in the context of dialogue and opened and adopted the code to put it in that section for a townhouse that everyone was viewing and looking at, but in the general course of using the code. I don't think that's the appropriate place board. I think that's mostly the case with most of the standards in the in the district standards.

F

I I agree: people miss, I think people miss the stuff, that's in article 2, all the time.

I

They do I mean we know, because we, you know, we people come into the office all the time. You know that they're not necessarily aware of that so um zach next slide um and then this is other content which is a little bit harder to find a place for, but it does apply across multiple districts and it really comes down to, and this is something I think we need feedback on.

I

It's always been a a conversation piece in the city of albany, since I've been here and it's the ability to convert or not convert or under what conditions convert existing dwellings. That may be a one family dwelling. They may be new family, you're, looking to add additional units, and obviously investors and such are always looking to add additional units. In some cases it can be beneficial in uh you know, increasing, affordable housing in some circumstance, but we want to be done in a way that doesn't totally wreck the building, so it can't be reversed.

I

um You know these are standards that apply now that currently reside in the in the district uh standard section of the rt, the r2, uh and there may be maybe in the rm as well. So this we don't. I don't think we have a solution for yet it could reside in these specific standards under single family or two family dwellings. We may want to create a new section of code for it or we may decide. We don't want to see people pursuing conversions of houses.

I

I mean, I think, that in the right circumstances I mean there's a lot of cases where someone has a one family house, townhouse downtown and they want to add a unit in the basement uh to supplement their. uh You know pay the mortgage totally reasonable. um I think you know um this is sort of a back end way of getting at home ownership, which is not something we're supposed to regulate through zoning.

I

So I do caution um that uh approach or sentiment, but I mean there are consequences from other avenues too of you know, breaking up buildings that were built for one purpose to be another purpose. Sometimes that's a good good and necessarily thing when you have a 10, 000 square foot, townhouse downtown, I mean there's not really a big market for 10, 000 square foot houses but other times you know it's not necessarily what we want to see.

I

So you know we kind of want to tease out whether these provisions are working um when they have gone to the planning board generally, they have been approved, um so we do want to get feedback on whether that that process is working or not I'll. Leave that conversation largely for another day, although you know you're, welcome to chime in zach um just moving on. I think.

F

I do just wanna, you know. I think that that richard.

B

F

uh You know is very helpful. You know he brings his perspective. I bring my perspective from my neighborhood. um You know on that, so uh I think I think that that is something for a discrete discussion at some point on that particular.

I

Yeah and I think originally, when we were doing the drafting, we had, you know, identified certain building types that may be appropriate for certain types of conversions versus other. I feel like it got dumbed down a little bit when it got actually the final version of the code, so we could sort of revisit that as well.

I

This is something we're considering and I'm just going to be really quick on this, but the form-based zoning districts. They each have a regulating plan, and within that regulating plan, there are four form-based districts within that regulating plan are sort of these sub regulating areas or districts that really. That is how the zoning is applied.

I

So one of the things we're contemplating as a sort of a bigger issue to come out of this out of this process or to follow it up, is taking these districts and actually not calling them mixed uh use, form-based, warehouse or form-based south end, but creating districts that are mixed-use core walkable center industrial warehouse and there's a couple of others. Now that wouldn't change anything fundamentally for how these districts are regulated.

I

um So I can go to the next slide, but it does, as you can see, it would give us some ability, some additional districts to sort of work with, and I've always felt that maybe we needed a couple of extra district districts to deal with neighborhoods that are developing. That want a little bit more of a conveyance of allowances.

I

You know there may be some some areas that are uh again. I just think it's it's it's better to have uh more options available and I think, to the extent that their people feel that there are certain districts missing there may be an ability to uh you know, use this to tweak. Some of the existing districts to uh you know have have similar but slightly different conveyances.

I

I know in some cases we have uh lower building heights in lower areas of the city and maybe that's more appropriate at the the mixed use, nc district, for instance, um you know, there's a disagreement. Four stories in on lark street is not a lot, but four stories on you know: new scotland or western avenues is more significant. So again, there may be a way through these changes to uh to make some of those distinctions.

B

So we'll get into discussion on these at a later point is the point that.

I

That's the idea we need to flesh it out, there's a lot of content related to form based that all needs to be sort of evaluated, for how this would impact that so um not having gotten into that detail. I don't know if we're going to be able to accomplish as a part of this process, but I think these are the issues we're trying to identify that. May uh you know, as we finish this process, maybe this is the next issue that we tackle over the footness issues going forward.

I

F

It's it's intriguing.

I

F

um The the when I look at this, I you know think that um the council members, who would be whose wards have those foreign-based districts um need to be engaged and- and um I think that that makes this potentially a little too ambitious for this part of our project.

F

But I look forward to your um working that problem and seeing what you come up with. I mean, if you know, if somebody gets on a tear and is tackling that and and wants to present it, um you know I'd love to see how it shakes out. I.

I

It's good. I appreciate you really reeling me in a little bit because I get these big ideas. But uh okay and it says we have five slides left, but I can't even think of what they are so zack. I don't know if you wanted.

J

The next one was just the e code, I'm renumbering just since councilmember hawaii had brought that up, but that was already addressed at the beginning of the presentation and then this is a reminder for the project website and then some of the other slides were just reference, slides um that were included in the previous presentation, but there were no content changes as a component of them, so they were just there if we had questions on them or comments on them. Oh.

I

And I'm sorry, I'm I'm in the dark here I didn't. Even I wasn't looking at my own video, so I didn't know that um but yeah and I'm not I'm not. I did email e-code to follow up. I I don't really understand. I mean I'm not trying to hate on them but they're. You know they uploaded it twice without asking us and then we asked them and they're taking a while to get it up. So I'm a little perplexed, but.

E

Hey brad uh with the water edge. Is that because we're gonna get that canal on broadway? Is that what you're thinking was we're getting a canal on broadway.

I

You haven't, wrote the paper somebody's proposed. I read that.

E

I read that 15 years ago recently came up, but one of the questions I have for you is um when you were looking at the table- and you said um these are like footnotes. Well, we have hypertech. So if you went to that, if you're online you're looking at it and you click on it- is that something we can do where you can just click on it and get like.

I

A hypertext we can, I think, it's a question of where exactly you want that to be, I mean it could be all over the document, so we need to be careful, but yeah. We can do that.

E

Okay, I just think you'd make it easy for a lot of people, because right now going well through the hard copy. It's yeah you try to reference, so you know, hopefully I'm not. I don't expect it overnight, but but thank you. It was a great uh presentation.

B

Okay, we're done. I look.

F

Forward to I mean a real key component, I mean the you know, article two and what you're doing with article two and paring it down significantly and eliminating the duplication so that you're not having to amend something in this in article 2, when you're amending in article 4 is a beautiful thing, um but um making sure that the the standards do get into article four for the most part, and you know when all those district standards wind up, you know some place and we don't drop something out accidentally.

F

I think it's going to be a real key. The other thing I just want to note is, while it's intuitive for people to go looking for the standards.

F

I do think that, as you list, the first thing under this is just my input under 375 203, the residential districts and then 375 204, the mixed use districts that as you before, listing the first type of district in that I think it would be helpful to simply insert something to the effect that lot dimensions, setbacks, building and district standards are found in article 4 and then refer people to the specific chart or section that that is, and one of the reasons why I say this is.

F

I think that some times people go to article four and they're looking at the wrong chart and not finding what they're looking for. So that's just a little drafting editing comment.

I

Yeah, that might be a good good example of some hyperlinks. We could add in um so we'll think we'll think about that. I think we yeah. We think we need to see how the new code works online too, uh and what we can do there, but that's a good idea. Thanks.

B

Anything okay, anything else I have down here that our next meeting is on tuesday may 4th at 5 30.

I

B

All right, um thank you. Everyone.

F

Thanks so much for all your work, zach.

B

Yes, absolutely have.

F

E

Good night rest of the night.

A

D

K

G