►
Description
No description was provided for this meeting.
If this is YOUR meeting, an easy way to fix this is to add a description to your video, wherever mtngs.io found it (probably YouTube).
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
B
B
B
I'd
like
to
welcome
members
and
staff
and
guests
to
this
meeting
of
the
standing
committee
on
legislative
offices,
my
name
is
Mark
Smith
MLA
for
Drayton
Valley,
Devin
and
chair
of
this
committee.
I'd
ask
that
members
and
those
joining
the
committee
at
the
table
introduce
themselves
for
the
record
and
then
we'll
hear
from
those
joining
us
remotely.
Let's
start
to
my
right
good.
B
B
Now
we
have
a
few
housekeeping
rules
for
the
day
items
to
address
before
we
return
to
the
business.
That
is
at
hand.
Please
note
that
the
microphones
are
operated
by
Hansard,
so
members
do
not
need
to
turn
them
on
and
off
committee
proceedings
are
being
live
streamed
on
the
internet
and
broadcast
on
Alberta
assembly.
Tv
members
participating
remotely
should
ensure
they
are
prepared
to
speak
or
vote
when
called
upon
and
video
conference
participants
are
encouraged
to
have
their
cameras
on
if
possible.
B
B
B
Mrs
zollard
moved
by
Mrs
Allard
that
the
standing
committee
on
legislative
offices
approved
the
draft
agenda
for
today's
meeting
as
distributed
or
as
amended
before,
I
ask
for
a
vote.
Let's
try
to
do
something
a
little
different
today,
if
nothing
else
just
to
make
it
easier
for
the
chair,
we're
going
to
just
have
everybody
both
in
the
room
and
online
just
say
a
yay
or
an
A.
All
you
know
we
went
in
the
opportunity,
comes
I'm
not
going
to
be
going
specifically
to
the
offline
or
the
people,
not
in
the
chamber.
B
B
B
B
For
the
remainder
of
the
day
of
the
day,
this
committee
will
be
reviewing
the
annual
reports,
business
plans
and
2023
budget
submissions
of
the
office
of
the
legislature.
As
previously
noted,
each
officer
will
have
up
to
20
minutes
of
presentation
time
followed
by
questions
from
committee
members.
Once
we've
completed
the
review
process,
the
committee
will
make
a
decision
on
each
of
the
budget
submissions.
B
B
B
G
Thank
you
good
morning,
chairperson
Smith
and
committee
members.
Thank
you
for
taking
the
time
to
meet
with
us
this
morning.
It's
nice
to
be
in
the
same
room.
Presenting
with
me
today
is
bolu
edu
our
director
of
strategic
support.
Today
we
will
be
presenting
our
2021
2022
annual
report,
2023-2024
budget
and
our
2023-2026
business
business
plan.
G
As
we
begin,
I
would
like
to
respectfully
acknowledge
that
we
are
on
treaty
six
territory
and
that
the
work
of
our
office
extends
throughout
the
province
on
the
traditional
territory
of
the
many
indigenous
peoples
of
treaties,
six,
seven
and
eight,
the
metis
settlements
and
the
metis
nation
of
Alberta
as
an
office.
We
are
deeply
committed
to
reconciliation
and
firmly
believe
it
is
a
journey
and
not
a
destination.
G
The
impact
of
colonialism
continues
to
adversely
affect
indigenous
young
people,
their
families
and
their
communities,
and
the
child
intervention
system
remains
overrepresented
in
their
lives.
Over
the
past
year,
we
continued
taking
measures
to
honor
the
Truth
and
Reconciliation
commission's
calls
to
action
by
we
advocated
for
the
individual
and
Collective
rights
of
indigenous
young
people,
including
their
right
to
Identity
and
connection
to
culture.
G
G
Our
role
is
to
represent
the
rights,
interests
and
viewpoints
of
young
people.
We
do
this
through
providing
advocacy
and
legal
representation
to
Children
and
Youth,
engaging
with
young
people,
community
stakeholders
and
decision
makers
investigating
the
serious
injuries
and
deaths
of
young
people
who
meet
the
criteria
for
an
investigative
review,
providing
advice
and
recommendations
to
government
on
issues
that
affect
young
people.
G
In
carrying
out
our
mandate.
Some
of
our
staff
work
directly
with
young
people,
While
others
play
an
indirect
role
by
providing
the
resources
and
infrastructure
that
support
our
work.
We
have
two
offices,
one
in
Edmonton
and
one
in
Calgary.
However,
our
work
extends
throughout
the
province.
We
go
to
where
the
young
people
are
at
whenever
possible,
while
still
taking
advantage
of
the
virtual
tools
we
use
to
connect
with
when
Public
Health
measures
were
in
place.
G
We
work
collaboratively
across
our
teams
and
together
we
all
stand
up
for
young
people
I'm
proud
of
how
strongly
we
advocated
for
young
people
over
the
past
year.
As
we
navigated
another
year
of
the
pandemic,
we
remained
agile
and
flexible
in
our
approach,
ensuring
we
continue
to
provide
the
best
possible
service
for
Children
and
Youth.
G
We
worked
hard
to
stay
connected
and
build
relationships
with
young
people
and
the
individuals,
service
providers
and
communities
that
are
important
to
them.
I'd
like
to
tell
you
about
the
three
Frontline
Services,
which
play
a
direct
role
in
supporting
young
people
in
need
of
advocacy
and
legal
representation.
G
Our
intake
team
is
often
oops.
Our
intake
team
is
often
the
first
point
of
contact
when
a
young
person
or
someone
in
their
lives
reaches
out
to
our
office
from
there.
They
may
be
referred
to
our
individual
Advocates
or
they
may
be
assigned
a
lawyer
through
our
legal
representation
for
children
and
youth
program,
also
known
as
lrcy.
G
G
Our
individual
Advocates
work
with
Children
and
Youth,
who
are
involved
with
the
child
intervention
or
youth
justice
system.
We
have
18
Advocates,
who
work
directly
with
young
people,
helping
ensure
their
voices
are
heard
and
their
rights
are
considered
when
decisions
are
made
that
affect
them.
Over
the
past
year,
many
young
people
who
connected
with
our
office
were
having
challenges
related
to
transitioning
out
of
children's
services
care.
G
We
also
saw
an
increase
in
young
people
struggling
with
mental
health
concerns,
addictions
and
access
to
housing.
We've
all
we've
always
been
deeply
concerned
about
these
issues,
which
may
have
become
more,
which
have
become
more
prevalent
over
the
past
two
years
and
may
be
related
to
the
pandemic
and
the
and
the
resulting
Public
Health
measures.
G
Our
lrcy
program
provides
legal
representation
for
young
people
involved
in
matters
related
to
the
child,
Youth
and
Family
enhancement,
act
or
the
protection
or
of
sexually
exploited
children.
Act
this
year
we
continued
to
see
a
reduction
in
the
number
of
intakes
for
legal
representation.
However,
the
complexity
of
Court
applications
increased
and
they
often
took
longer
to
resolve.
G
Some
of
these
delays
were
related
to
Public
Health
measures.
While
others
were
the
result
of
Shifting
perspectives
regarding
the
best
interests
of
indigenous
young
people,
when
consideration
was
given
to
an
act
respecting
First,
Nations,
Inuit
and
metis
children,
youth
and
Families
Community
engagement
is
a
key
component
of
our
work.
We
are
dedicated
to
developing
relationships
with
diverse
stakeholders,
organizations
and
communities,
so
we
can
work
collaboratively
to
advance
the
rights
interests
and
well-being
of
young
people.
G
Over
the
past
year,
we
assisted
in
planning
and
facilitating
a
health
and
wellness
conference
for
newcomer
youth,
participated
in
Pride
activities
and
engaged
with
the
disability
Community.
As
we
began
initial
planning
for
upcoming
Special
Report
on
young
people
with
disabilities
and
the
challenges
they
face.
G
Our
education
initiatives
are
another
key
component
of
our
efforts
to
engage
communities.
We
offer
learning
sessions
and
resources
about
children's
rates,
advocacy
and
the
work
of
our
office.
We
created
a
new
resource
on
custody
and
access,
which
is
an
issue
we've
received.
An
increasing
number
of
calls
about
in
recent
years,
delivered
our
advocacy,
101
training
to
over
200
people
and
met
with
indigenous
organizations
to
build
relationships
and
share
information
about
our
work.
G
We
believe
it's
critical,
that
young
people
have
a
say
when
decisions
are
made
that
affect
them,
and
this
extends
to
the
work
of
our
office.
We
provide
opportunities
for
young
people
to
participate
in
our
work
in
a
number
of
ways,
including
through
our
youth
Council,
which
is
made
up
of
young
people
from
across
the
province
who
have
lived
experience
in
the
child
intervention
and
youth
Justice
systems.
G
G
G
The
recommendation
made
in
this
report
calls
for
a
youth,
specific
opioid
and
substance
use
strategy,
a
step
we
believe
is
critically
important
to
improve
outcomes
for
young
people
and
save
lives
in
August
2021.
This
recommendation
was
accepted
in
principle
and
I
was
recently
advised
that
the
new
ministry
Ministry
of
mental
health
and
addiction
will
be
providing
updates
on
it.
I'm
deeply
concerned
about
this
issue
between
January
1st
2019
and
September
30th
2022
AHS
reported
on
their
website
that
384
young
people
under
the
age
of
24,
passed
away
in
Alberta
due
to
opioid
poisoning.
G
The
old
period
crisis
is
having
widespread
impacts
on
young
people
across
the
province
and
more
must
be
done.
The
number
of
young
lives
that
continue
to
be
lost
highlights
the
urgent
need
for
a
youth
focused
response.
I'm
pleased
that
last
week
the
government
announced
new
funding
to
expand
opioid
addiction
supports
for
Youth
and
Young
adults.
This
is
a
positive
step
forward
and
I'm
hopeful.
It
will
make
a
difference
in
the
lives
of
young
people
who
are
struggling.
G
Another
part
of
our
mandate
is
to
conduct
investigative
reviews
into
the
circumstances
of
young
people
who
are
seriously
injured
or
passed
away
and
were
involved
with
child
intervention
or
youth
Justice.
We
have
two
types
of
reviews:
systemic
and
mandatory
both
are
designed
to
improve
the
lives
of
young
people
by
identifying
ways
to
enhance
services
and
supports,
leading
to
system
improvements
and
better
outcomes
for
young
people
and
their
families.
G
When
we
appeared
before
this
committee
last
year,
we
commented
that
the
number
of
notifications
of
death
and
serious
injury
we
were
receiving
was
increasing
at
that
time,
we'd
seen
a
31
percent
increase
in
overall
notifications,
which
we
indicated
was
the
maximum
capacity
that
we
could
manage.
We
continue
to
receive
an
alarming
number
of
notifications
of
both
of
young
people.
In
the
2021-2022
fiscal
year
we
saw
a
62
percent
increase
in
the
number
of
young
people
whose
death
met
the
criteria
for
a
mandatory
review.
This
sharp
increase
is
placing
a
significant
strain
on
our
resources,
I'm.
G
Sad
to
let
you
know
that
these
Trends
are
continuing
in
2020
to
2023.
As
of
November,
we've
received
over
60
notifications
of
death
of
young
people,
resulting
in
the
need
for
additional
resources
for
investigations
or
20
23
2024
budget
estimates
include
funding
for
an
additional
investigator
to
support
this
work.
G
Our
role
in
reporting
and
in
making
recommendations
is
to
improve
the
experiences
for
young
people
and
child
serving
systems
out
of
24
recommendations
that
were
evaluated
this
past
year.
11
were
unmet,
three
were
met
and
ten
are
ongoing.
We're
always
pleased
when
our
recommendations
are
acted
upon
and
positive
changes
created
for
young
people.
However,
there's
still
much
to
be
done.
When
we
last
appeared
before
this
committee,
we
discussed
the
need
for
increased
government
accountability
when
responding
to
and
implementing
our
recommendations.
G
G
When
we
look
at
the
themes
of
our
recommendations,
we
see
many
persistent
issues
for
young
people.
One
of
the
most
commonly
occurring
themes
relates
to
strengthening
collaboration
amongst
Ministries
and
service
providers.
Another
prevalent
theme
is
opioid
and
substance.
Use.
This
again
underscores
the
importance
of
implementing
a
full
Continuum
of
services
for
young
people,
so
that
no
further
lives
are
lost
to
the
opioid
crisis.
G
It's
an
honor
and
a
privilege
to
serve
in
this
role
as
I
lead
our
office
forward
I'm
committing
I'm
committed
to
building
on
the
good
work,
the
Oco
I
to
building
on
the
good
work
the
ocya
has
done
for
more
than
30
years
over
the
coming
year.
This
work
will
include,
but
isn't
limited
to
continuing
to
act
on
our
commitment
to
reconciliation,
examining
issues
affecting
young
people
with
disabilities
and
strengthening
our
public
reporting
and
recommendations
tracking.
G
We
recently
welcomed
a
knowledge
keeper
who's
guiding
us
in
a
good
way,
as
we
support
indigenous
communities
to
exercise
their
inherent
rates,
we're
creating
a
ceremonial
room
where
our
staff
and
young
people
can
gather
and
learn
from
indigenous
Elders
knowledge,
Keepers
and
community
members.
The
room
will
be
a
welcoming
space
where
ceremony
such
as
smudging
can
occur.
G
G
Finally,
we're
making
significant
changes
to
our
public
reporting
and
recommendations
tracking
to
report
on
the
to
report
on
the
high
number
of
notifications
of
deaths
of
young
people
more
effectively.
We
are
developing
a
Consolidated
report,
format
that
highlights
persistent
issues
common
to
these
young
people
and
brings
attention
to
the
need
for
increased
accountability,
we're
also
developing
any
recommendations
tracking
system.
It
will
feature
a
user-friendly
and
interactive
interface,
so
all
stakeholders
and
the
public
can
easily
learn
what
recommendations
have
been
made
and
how
responses
have
been
evaluated.
G
This
will
help
create
more
transparency
and
accountability
on
how
our
recommendations
are
actioned.
As
our
office
moves
forward,
we
will
ensure
young
people
Remain
the
central
focus
of
everything
we
do.
I'll
now
turn
it
over
to
Baloo
to
talk
about
strategic
support
and
present.
Our
financial
highlights.
F
Thank
you
too.
Strategic
support
ensures
that
appropriate
resources
systems
on
supports
are
in
place
to
maintain
the
operations
of
our
office.
One
major
priority
for
us
over
the
previous
year
was
supporting
the
development
of
our
new
advocacy
information
management
system,
which
launched
in
May
of
2022.
Our
previous
system
was
more
than
17
years
old.
This
new
modernized
case
management
system
tracks
the
entire
life
cycle
of
an
advocacy
case
and
allows
our
staff
to
securely
enter
and
access
information
anytime
anywhere.
F
F
The
approved
voted
budget
for
our
operating
expenses
was
14
672
thousand
dollars
and
for
Capital
expenditures,
250
000
dollars,
actual
spending
in
both
operating
and
capital
expenditure
categories
was
approximately
13
million
959
000,
which
is
one
million
three
hundred
and
twenty
three
thousand
dollars
below
the
approved
amounts.
This
was
primarily
because
of
savings
from
vacant
positions,
savings
and
contracts
and
lower
actual
travel
costs
and
activities
because
of
Public
Health
measures,
as
well
as
cost
saving
strategies
that
were
implemented
last
year
in
lrcy.
G
Thank
you,
bolu.
We
are
requesting
a
budget
of
16
205
000,
which
is
an
increase
of
6.2
percent
over
our
previous
year's
budget,
as
I
highlighted
earlier,
we've
added
an
indigenous
knowledge
keeper
to
provide
leadership
and
guidance
about
indigenous
ways
of
knowing
and
to
help
us
integrate
this
knowledge
into
our
programs,
policies
and
practices.
G
We've
also
added
a
new
full-time
resource
for
an
investigator
as
part
of
our
estimates
to
meet
operational
requirements.
The
additional
one
hundred
thousand
dollars
requested
in
capital
spending
is
for
the
creation
of
a
ceremonial
room
which
we
believe
is
critically
important.
As
we
strengthen
our
commitment
to
reconciliation,
I'll
turn
it
back
to
bolu
to
discuss
our
budget
estimates.
F
Thank
you
too
salaries
and
benefits
are
nine
million
seven
hundred
and
twenty
four
thousand
dollars
representing
sixty
percent
of
our
budget.
This
is
an
increase
of
six
hundred
and
eighty
nine
thousand
dollars
from
the
previous
year
as
a
result
of
the
Alberta
Public
Service
lifting
the
salary
freeze
and
two
additional
full-time
staff
positions.
F
I
would
like
to
note
that,
prior
to
the
2020-2021
fiscal
year,
the
ocya
had
83
full-time
positions
which,
over
the
past
several
years,
has
been
reduced
to
76..
These
estimates
reflect
salaries
and
benefits
for
78
full-time
positions,
an
increase
of
two
as
spoken
to
earlier
by
Terry
fees
and
disbursements
for
lrcy
account
for
approximately
26
percent.
F
The
overall
budget
for
this
program,
Remains
the
Same
as
the
previous
year
to
align
with
the
removal
of
salary
freezes
for
lawyers
within
the
Alberta
public
service
and
the
recent
increase
to
the
hourly
rate
of
legal
aid
lawyers.
We
will
be
reinstating
the
lawyer
fee
reduction
implemented
last
year
and
we
believe
that
we
can
still
cover
this
increase
while
maintaining
the
same
budget
estimate
for
this
program
as
last
year.
F
Contracts
on
it
Services
represent
7.4
percent.
This
is
an
increase
of
approximately
66
000
from
the
previous
year's
budgets.
While
we
have
embraced
virtual
opportunities
to
connect
reduced
production
and
printing
costs
for
reports
and
streamlined
file
review
processes,
some
of
our
old
I.T
contracts
expired
in
the
current
year.
Our
renewals
came
at
a
higher
rate,
we're
asking
for
a
capital
budget
of
three
hundred
thousand
dollars
for
the
upcoming
year,
an
increase
of
one
hundred
thousand
dollars
from
the
2022-2023
fiscal
year.
Our
Capital
budgets
for
the
coming
year
includes
the
creation
of
a
ceremonial
room.
F
G
Thank
you
bowling,
chairperson
Smith
and
committee
members.
In
conclusion,
we
are
requesting
your
approve
our
2023-2024
budget
estimate
of
16
million
two
hundred
and
five
thousand
dollars
since
1989.
The
ocya
has
worked
hard
to
stand
up
for
young
people
for
the
staff
at
my
office.
This
is
a
passion
and
a
calling
and
I'm
proud
of
the
work,
we're
doing
to
create
positive
and
meaningful
change
for
young
people,
their
families
and
communities
across
Alberta.
Thank
you
again
for
inviting
us
to
appear
before
this
committee
today
we're
happy
to
respond
to
any
questions.
B
H
Chair
and
thank
you
to
Madam,
Pelton
and
Madame
for
your
presentations
I
think
today,
in
listening
to
your
presentations,
I
can
say
honestly
that
albertans
don't
look
to
your
offices
with
a
sharp
pencil.
They
look
to
ensure
that
you
have
enough
resources
to
accomplish
your
important
work.
H
All
of
the
things
that
you've
outlined
today
is
highlight
to
this
committee,
as
well
as
all
albertans,
the
necessity
of
your
office
and,
unfortunately,
the
work
is
growing
and
that
has
necessitated,
in
my
view,
your
request
for
budgetary
increase,
so
the
deaths
of
children
or
youth
in
care
are
that
are
receiving.
Reservices
is
continues
to
rise,
as
you
indicated
on
page
six
of
your
annual
report,
page
26
I
should
say
of
your
annual
report
and
it
indicates
that
2021-22
saw
62
percent
increase
in
notifications
of
serious
injuries
or
death
49
deaths.
G
We're
working
with
Ministries
and
public
bodies
to
talk
about
the
trends
that
we're
seeing
and
highlighting
the
concerns
where
I
spoke
briefly
about
we're
changing
the
format
of
some
of
the
reports
that
we're
doing
so.
It's
more
of
a
Consolidated
report
and
really
looking
at
the
themes
we're
seeing
across
young
people,
I'm
specifically
concerned
about
the
opioid
and
substance
use
issue
and
I've
raised
it
with
the
ministry
and
I'll
continue
to
do
that.
G
Our
numbers
look
different
than
what
the
ministry
reports,
because
we
get
the
reports
of
deaths
of
young
people
who
died
within
two
years
of
receiving
services,
so
their
numbers
I,
think
I
saw
in
the
paper
last
week.
They
had
reported
26
deaths
between
April,
1st
and
the
beginning
of
November
and
we're
closer
to
60
in
that
same
time
frame
because
of
those
closed
files,
if
you
would-
and
so
we
will
continue
to
raise
the
issues
and
take
every
notification
we
receive
with
pay
at
very
close
attention
and
raise
the
issues.
Those
young
people
faced.
H
You'd
indicated
that
one
of
your
themes
and
hopes
and
goals
was
to
improve
collaboration
between
Ministries
and
with
within
your
scope
of
your
work.
What
barriers
have
you
found
or
have
been,
which
limited
that
previous
collaboration
and
what
successes
have
you
found
in
trying
to
make
some
strides
forward.
G
I
think
the
public
health
measures
where
everybody
was
working
virtually
had
some
positive
impacts
because
people
could
connect
virtually,
but
that
really
being
in
the
room
and
building
relationships
with
people
and
where
you
could
pick
up
a
phone
and
on
the
Fly
talk
to
somebody.
So
I
think
that
that
has
impacted
collaboration
across
service
providers.
G
B
Wish,
let's
see
if
there
are
any
well
before
we
go
on?
What
I
would
like
to
do
is
get
Mr
Hunter
a
chance
to
introduce
himself
to
the
community.
E
Well,
thank
you.
Thank
you
for
all
the
work
and
thank
you
for
putting
the
report
and
quite
pleased
to
see
that
especially
the
work
you're
doing
and
you
have
done
during
the
covet
and
the
question.
I
have
the
page
name,
11
I
think
I
noticed
it.
26
percent
increase
in
the
general
inquiries
your
office
received,
and
this
also
explained
that
it
has
been
the
trend
through
the
pandemic
like
from
last
few
years.
So
there's
there's
an
increase
in
general
inquiries.
E
G
I'd
be
happy
to
do
that.
We
have
seen
the
increase
there's
a
number
related
to
custody,
high
conflict
custody
and
access
disputes
which
don't
fit
within
our
mandate,
but
our
intake
workers
spend
time
talking
to
those
young
people
and
their
families.
G
It
is
also
something
we
hear
about
fairly
frequently
young
people
transitioning
out
of
children's
services
care,
requesting
support,
So,
Children's
Services
has
a
new
program
called
the
transition
to
adulthood
program
or
tap,
and
they've
moved
away
from
the
support
and
financial
assistance
agreements.
G
I'm
hopeful
that
that
is
going
to
be
a
positive
move
for
these
young
people
I'm.
Certainly
the
intent
is
there,
but
right
now,
young
people
are
struggling
with
the
transition
and
understanding
what
it
means,
and
so
we're
getting
a
number
of
calls
from
those
young
people
and
the
other
thing
that
really
concerns
me
that
I
was
unaware
of
until
this
past
March
is.
There
is
a
very
high
number
of
young
people
in
Alberta
who
are
homeless
or
houseless.
G
G
B
O
H
That
occurred
to
me
as
you're,
making
your
presentations
that
I'm
helping,
and
that
is
that
roughly
25
of
your
budget
is
dedicated
towards
the
legal
representation
for
children
and
a
significant
amount
and
I'm
wondering
if,
as
if
in
other
government,
Ministries
and
departments
that
you
find
the
difficulty
in
attracting
top-notch
legal
representation
for
that
large
caseload.
Given
the
budget
that
you
have
or
do
you
have
a
smaller
number
of
lawyers
handling
a
larger
number
of
cases
than
you
would
actually
prefer.
G
Thank
you.
That's
a
very
good
question.
We
have
about
66
law
lawyers
on
our
roster
from
across
the
province,
they're,
all
in
private
practice,
about
half
of
them
or
slightly
more,
have
been
on
the
roster
since
2006
and
so
they're,
starting
to
think
about
retirement.
Like
many
of
us
are
do,
and
so
we
need
to
attract
lawyers
with
experience
in
family
law,
but
specifically
in
Child,
Welfare
Law,
and
so
we
are
doing
some
work
towards
doing
that.
G
But
the
group
that
we
have
is
really
really
passionate
about
young
people
and
they
go
to
extra
training
and
they
meet
kids
wherever
they're
at
and
and
so
it's
it's
a
really
important
program
and
I
think
we
need
to
maintain
at
least
the
60
to
70
lawyers,
because
it
is
so
broad
Reaching,
Across,
The,
Province.
H
So
if
I
hear
you
correctly,
our
you
are
expressing
some
concern
about
recruitment
difficulties
right
now
and
perhaps
even
more
so
in
the
future.
Yes,.
G
H
Sure
and
one
final
question:
if
I
may
normally,
this
committee
does
a
full
review
of
the
annual
report
and
I'm
wondering
if
the
opinion
of
your
office
is
that
we
should,
as
a
committee,
have
a
dedicated
review
meeting
to
review
the
annual
report.
Would
you
support
such
a
dedicated
meeting
to
review
the
annual
report.
G
B
K
Just
getting
there
thank
you
very
much,
Ms
Pelton.
Thank
you
for
your
presentation
as
well
as
your
CFO.
Similarly,
you
know
I
I
twigged
when
you
said
something
about
last
March
and
houselessness
for
young
people.
Could
you
just
repeat
what
you
said
please.
G
Sure
I'd
be
happy
to
we
had
a
how
Our
Youth
Forum,
that
was
all
youth
LED.
Last
March
and
I
thought
we'd
be
here.
We
they
would
want
to
talk
about
things
like
going
back
home
or
culture,
a
number
of
different
things,
but
a
very
big
theme
for
these
young
people
is,
is
they
don't
have
places
to
stay
that
are
consistent,
they're
being
moved
or
they
they're
being
told
at
16
or
17
that
they
can?
You
know
if
they
don't
like
the
rules
at
home.
G
G
Started
raising
it
with
media
and
our
investigative
reviews.
The
last
report
that
came
out
at
the
end
of
September,
that
was
about
15
young
people
who
had
passed
away
houselessness,
was
an
issue
for
a
number
of
them
because
of
their
complex
issues.
They
couldn't
either
find
a
place
or
when
they
found
a
place.
Their
behaviors
were
such
that
they
couldn't
stay
there,
and
so
we
started
to
highlight
that
in
that
last
mandatory
report
and
we're
looking
at
doing
a
social
media
campaign.
B
B
D
Thank
you
to
both
of
you
for
your
presentation,
I'm,
going
to
refer
to
the
annual
report
on
page
13.
D
G
A
similar
percentage
to
previous
years,
Children's
Services
numbers
children
in
care,
is
more
like
70
percent
and
we've
been
pretty
consistently
about
10
percent
less
than
that
in
our
child
death
reviews.
This
year,
though,
we
did
see
an
increase
in
indigenous
young
people
who
passed
away.
D
Okay,
thank
you.
I
do
I
have
one
other
question
your
office
I'm,
referring
to
page
23.
Now
your
office
held
various
workshops,
presentations
and
other
forms
of
direct
stakeholder
and
public
engagement
over
the
last
year.
I
just
had
a
couple
of
questions
about
that.
How
successful
would
you
say
these
engagements
were
and
what
are
the
metrics
that
you
use
to
measure
that
or
just
you
know,
what
are
you
looking
for
to
come
out
of
those
engagements?
Okay,.
G
I
think
they've
been
very
successful.
We
get
invited
back
to
do
presentations
and
to
talk
to
young
people
and
to
adults.
G
G
So
this
report
goes
up,
of
course,
to
March
31st
of
the
previous
year,
so
in
that
year
all
of
these
presentations
were
still
virtual.
Since
April
1st
we've
been
back
out
in
community
and
seeing
a
much
more
robust
and
welcoming
kind
of
environment,
people
are
really
happy
to
have
us
back
at
booths
and
things
are
moving
along
and
I've
been
asked
to
speak
it
of
three
or
four
presentations
in
October
or
conferences,
and
so
I
think
people
are
hungry
to
know
about
advocacy
and
about
children's
rights,
and
we
had
through
the
pandemic.
G
D
One
final
question:
Mr
chair:
if
I
may,
that's
you
thank
you
for
that.
I
totally
would
agree
that
there's
a
there's,
a
differential
between
virtual
engagement
and
in-person
engagement
and
I
can
imagine
in
the
work
that
you
do.
That
would
be
a
really
critical
differential.
Are
you
expecting
to
do
more
engagements
this
year
as
a
result
of
that
to
kind
of
catch
up
from
the
pandemic?.
G
Yeah,
yes,
we
sure
are
we're
out
to
teachers,
conventions
coming
up
pretty
quick.
We
were
at
the
child
Youth
Care
conference
last
month,
the
foster
parent
and
kinship
conference
yeah
we're
really
getting
out
wherever
we
can.
Thank.
B
N
N
I
just
wanted
to
know
what
is
the
difference
between
houseless
and
homeless,
so
you
use
that
term.
I,
just
I,
just
didn't
I
hadn't
heard
that
before
and
I
have
a
supplemental
question.
G
Enough,
it's
new
term
for
me,
I
think
the
difference
and
I
I'm
I
have
not
talked
to
anybody
specifically
about.
This
is
the
difference
between
having
a
house
and
a
home,
and
so
while
we
talk
about
people
being
homeless,
they
they
may
find
home
with
a
community,
but
they
don't
actually
have
a
house
or
a
stable,
like
shelter
to
live
in
I.
Think
that's
the
difference.
Okay,.
N
Thank
you.
The
next
question
I
want
to
ask
is
what
so,
so
we
spend
a
certain
amount
for
the
office
of
child
and
youth
Advocate.
Other
provinces
have
an
advocate
as
well.
How
do
you
compare
in
terms
of
your
cost
in
Alberta
versus
cost
in
other
jurisdictions,.
G
Question
to
answer,
but
I'll
do
my
best.
So
yes,
across
the
country,
there
are
advocacy
offices
and
our
office
is
one
of
the
biggest
offices.
In
fact
it
may
be
the
biggest
now
that
Ontario
is
part
of
the
ombudsman
and
every
office
has
a
different
scope.
So
some
of
the
offices
can
advocate
for
children
across
all
government
systems
where
ours
is
more
limited
to
child
intervention
and
youth
Justice.
B
Mr
chair,
thank
you.
Mr
Hunter
I'll
go
to
the
Mr
Dak
and
then
we've
got
somebody
on
on
line
here.
Okay,
thank.
H
You
Mr
chair
I,
just
wanted
to
ask
a
more
general
question
to
Madam
Pendleton.
That
is
that,
of
course,
we
see
albertans
continue
to
be
dying
on
the
streets.
The
overweight
crisis
is
a
big
part
of
that,
but
as
long
as
there
continues
to
be
children,
Alberta
children
dying
in
care.
Would
you
agree
with
the
statement
that
the
government
is
therefore
not
doing
enough,
there's
still
more
to
do.
G
B
It
was
just
brought
to
my
attention
that
we
started
about
five
minutes
late
because
of
all
of
the
beginning
of
the
of
the
meeting.
So
we're
gonna
extend
this
for
five
more
minutes
and
Miss
Rosen
you're
up.
M
Okay,
thank
you,
chair
member
elard
mentioned,
or
had
some
questions
about
metrics,
which
prompted
one
more
question
for
me
regarding
metrics
I,
see
on
page
31.
It
talks
about
your
youth
involvement
and,
of
course,
youth
involvement
and
youth
participation
is
an
incredibly
important
part
of
your
mandate,
and
it
says
there
that
you
that
you
received
a
100
positive
report,
essentially
that
100
of
Youth
in
the
office
reported
their
participation
with
your
office
was
valuable
and
meaningful.
So
I'm
just
wondering
how
that
100
percent
is
calculated
or
how
we're
tracking
that
metric.
G
F
M
Okay,
thank
you,
I
guess.
Just
going
off
of
that,
do
you
foresee
that
you'll
be
able
to
maintain
that
100
metric
in
years
going
forward,
or
do
you
see
any
changes
potentially
coming
that
the
committee
or
the
government
should
be
aware
of.
G
G
I,
don't
know
if
it's
a
Target
that
we'll
continue
to
report
on
if
we
are
doing
so
well
at
it
I
think
we've
got
to
look
at
things
that
that
are
more
of
a
challenge.
I
think.
If
we
ask
them
different
questions,
we
might
have
a
different
answer,
but
it's
the
way.
The
question
is
framed
around
a
better
understanding
of
Rights.
M
M
Of
course,
your
report
says
that
some
of
this
was
resulted
from
reduced
activities
due
to
the
Covenant
pandemic,
which
I
know
you've
also
discussed
today,
but
I'm
just
also
wondering
if
any
of
those
nine
percent
savings
or
unspent
amounts
were
a
result
of
any
non-covered
relating
related
spending,
reductions
or
policy
or
initiative
changes
that
perhaps
would
be
ongoing
in
years
forward.
Okay,.
G
I
can
start
and
then
I'll
get
bulu
to
add
anything
that
I've
missed
I
I.
Some
of
the
savings
is
around
staff
retention
and
turnover
and
I
think
that
potentially
is
related
to
the
pandemic,
but
it
could
just
be
that
we
are
our
the
makeup
of
our
offices
generally
older
and
ready
for
retirement,
and
so
we've
had
a
number
of
retirements
and
then
the
hiring
leg,
so
hiring
leg
has
had
a
huge
impact
on
our
budget.
I'm
hopeful
that
this
year
we
don't
have
that
we
lower
travel
costs
was
definitely
related
to
covid.
G
Some
of
the
lawyer
fees
were
lower
because
of
covid
and
and
delayed
Court
times.
I
think
that
we
are,
if
I
look
at
what
our
spending
is
like
in
this
current
year.
It
is
we're
not
in
a
position
to
be
giving
back
that
level
of
money
this
year.
Bolo.
Could
you
add
anything
yeah.
F
I
can
do
a
little
breakdown
of
the
nine
percent,
so
about
1.5
percent
was
savings
and
salaries
and
benefits,
because
the
cool
videos
saw
a
lot
of
turnover
in
across
organizations,
not
just
our
organization,
we're
at
about
six
percent
savings
and
contracts
and
purchase
services,
and
there
was
about
two
percent
reduced
costs
and
travel,
because
we
embraced
more
virtual
opportunities
to
connect
and
there
were
public
measures
in
place
that
restricted
going
out.
So
that's
the
breakdown
of
that.
F
It
I'll
say
90
of
that
nine
percent
is
related
to
covid
measures
that
are
in
place,
but
some
of
it
are
also
indirect
effects
of
covet,
such
as
the
staff
turnover.
So
that
will
be
related
to
that
and
your
other
question
was
about.
F
M
Guess
just
to
follow
up
on
that
answer,
then,
so,
just
to
confirm
you
would
project
that
that
nine
percent
of
unspent
spending
will
likely
be
spent
this
year,
because
primarily
it
was
due
to
reduced
initiatives
and
activities
from
kova
19
that
we'll
be
back
to
normal
operations.
This.
B
Okay,
well,
thank
you
very
much.
It
looks
like
our
time
is
pretty
much
up,
so
I
want
to
thank
Ms
Pelton
for
to
you
and
to
your
staff
for
all
your
time
this
morning,
for
your
information,
we
anticipate
the
decision
on
the
officers.
Budgets
will
be
sent
out
to
you
in
writing
early
next
week.
Okay,.
B
Okay,
I
believe
our
next,
the
office
of
the
information
and
privacy
commissioner
are
just
waiting
outside.
So
we'll
give
everybody
a
couple
minutes
here,
just
to
exchange
seats
and
we'll
get
started.
B
B
B
Okay,
good
morning,
everybody
I
think
we'll
just
we'll
start
first
by
letting
everybody
introduce
themselves
all
the
mlas
introduce
themselves
and
then
we'll
we'll.
Let
you
introduce
yourselves
after
that.
Okay,
but
we'll
start
just
so,
everybody
can
introduce.
Q
Hi
Ron
Orr.
B
B
J
B
Excellent,
yes,
I
would
ask
you.
You've
introduced
your
staff
already,
but
I
just
would
remind
you
that
your
presentation
is
going
to
be
about
20
minutes
or
so,
and
then,
after
that,
the
committee
members
will
have
time
to
ask
some
questions
so
miss
McLeod
when
you're
ready
to
begin.
You
can
start.
S
Great
well,
thank
you
very
much.
Thank
you
and
hello
committee
members.
It's
a
pleasure
to
be
here
today.
This
is
my
first
presentation
to
the
legislative
committee
since
being
appointed
as
information
and
privacy,
commissioner
and
I
am
looking
forward
to
working
together
through
the
Legislative
Assembly
over
the
next
five
years.
S
These
laws
govern
The,
Collection
use
and
disclosure
of
personal
or
health
information,
and
they
provide
individuals
with
certain
rights,
including
the
ability
to
access
their
own
information.
As
you
will
know,
foip
also
provides
a
right
of
access
to
any
information
held
by
a
public
body,
subject
to
certain
limited
exceptions.
S
S
Additionally,
I
have
the
power
to
open
investigations
on
my
own
motion
to
investigate
any
organization's
compliance
with
the
law.
My
office
also
reviews
privacy
breach
reports
and
privacy
impact
assessments,
businesses
under
pipa
and
health
custodians
under
the
Health
Information
Act
must
report
certain
privacy
breaches
to
my
office
and
notify
affected
individuals
in
certain
circumstances.
S
S
Many
of
these
investigations
look
into
the
actions
of
people
who
are
authorized
to
access
health
information,
but
do
so
without
a
valid
work
purpose.
These
are
often
called
snooping
breaches
and
typically
involve
an
employee
in
the
health
sector.
Looking
at
health
information
of
people
with
whom
they
have
a
personal
relationship.
S
S
S
Our
legal
team
assists
me
with
certain
types
of
decisions
and
represents
the
office
during
judicial
reviews
or
other
court
matters.
The
head
of
our
legal
team
also
oversees
human
resources
in
the
office
and
retains
external
counsel
when
required,
our
compliance
and
special
investigation
teams
review
privacy
impact
assessments
such
as
breach
reports
and
they
conduct
offense
investigations.
S
The
team
also
includes
I.T
records
management
and
Communications
I
also
have
two
assistant
Commissioners,
who
assist
me
in
carrying
out
the
operations
of
the
office.
One
area
that
I
hope
to
build
capacity
in
the
coming
years
is
in
technology
and
innovation.
Stakeholder
engagement
to
enhance
our
education
and
awareness
work.
S
S
S
We
are
now
looking
ahead
to
the
years
to
come
when
I
was
appointed.
Commissioner
I
committed
to
a
number
of
initiatives
that
I
would
like
to
advance
over
my
five-year
term,
which
are
now
reflected
in
the
updated
business
plan
for
the
office
overall.
My
vision
for
the
office
is
to
adopt
an
approach
that
proactively
supports
stakeholder
compliance.
S
S
S
S
our
inability
to
conduct
this
work
in
a
timely
manner
affects
albertans
access
to
information
and
privacy
rights.
We
must
take
a
number
of
steps
to
improve
our
our
timelines,
including
evaluating
how
we
manage
these
cases.
However,
process
improvements
will
not
be
enough
to
eliminate
our
backlog
and
get
us
back
on
track.
S
This
is
why
I'm
requesting
for
2023-24
the
budget
to
hire
one
more
investigator
and
one
contractor
for
the
Mi
team
to
address
current
volume.
The
adjudication
team
consists
of
a
director
and
four
adjudicators.
There
are
240
files
awaiting
review
by
adjudicators,
which
is
the
highest
number
ever
in
the
history
of
the
office.
S
Adjudicators
are
specialized
in
administrative
law
and
access
and
Privacy
Law.
They
decide
all
matters
of
fact
and
law
during
an
inquiry
and
issue
a
written
order.
Given
the
level
of
detail
required
in
their
work.
There
is
a
limit
on
the
number
of
orders
that
can
be
issued
per
year
by
an
adjudicator,
which
is
approximately
16.
S
S
S
S
The
purpose
of
this
function
is
to
engage
the
public,
including
young
albertans,
for
the
purpose
of
educating
them
on
their
privacy
and
access
to
information
rights
and
how
to
exercise
these
rights.
The
engagement
functions
will
include
the
development
of
Educational,
Tools
and
resources,
along
with
other
Innovative
strategies,
to
facilitate
engagement,
third
technology
and
innovation.
S
The
work
associated
with
engagement
and
support
will
be
absorbed
by
me
and
one
of
my
assistant
commissioners,
however,
I
am
requesting
in
this
year's
budget.
One
staff,
member
with
technology
experience,
particularly
in
the
area
of
machine
learning
and
artificial
intelligence
to
perform
the
technology
and
Innovation
function.
S
In
order
to
achieve
the
goals
set
out
in
the
business
plan,
especially
with
respect
to
tackling
backlogs
and
digitally
advancing,
the
office,
I
realized
that
we
needed
to
be
bold
in
identifying
what
we
need
to
meet
these
objectives.
When
reviewing
past
budget
requests,
I
recognize
the
Keen
attention
to
budgetary
pressures.
S
The
government
of
Alberta
was
experiencing
I
expect
that
this
was
top
of
mind
for
commissioner
Clayton
when
submitting
budgets
during
her
tenure,
the
office's
belt
tightening
budgets
appear
to
reflect
what
albertans
were
experiencing,
and
it
seems
as
though
the
office
did
its
little
part
and
bringing
Alberta's
per
capita
expenditures
in
line
with
the
averages
of
BC
Ontario
and
Quebec
When.
Comparing
the
current
fiscal
year
with
past
budgets,
the
office's
voted
budget
increased
by
8
percent,
while
the
Consumer
Price
Index
in
Alberta,
increased
to
around
20
22
percent.
S
For
six
years,
salary
freezes
were
in
effect
for
a
ypc
staff.
Last
year,
the
Public
Service
Commission
lifted
the
salary
restraint
which
contributed
to
this
fiscal
Year's
budget
increase.
On
several
occasions
before
this
committee,
former
commissioner
Clayton
was
asked
if
more
staff
were
needed
to
address
timelines,
and
the
answer
was
always.
Yes,
if
she
saw
the
opportunity
in
gov
government
budget
realities
to
do
so,.
S
Overall
efforts
to
constrain
the
budget
were
understandable,
but
funding
realities
together
with
increasing
case
loads
left.
The
office
struggling
to
man
manage
its
burgeoning
caseloads
that
increased
year
over
year
as
such,
our
Focus
has
been
on
managing
our
caseload
with
little
time
for
process
review
and
Outreach.
S
At
the
same
time,
we
are
faced
with
a
surge
in
new
technologies,
including
machine
learning
and
artificial
intelligence
in
all
sectors.
There
are
significant
risks
to
the
public
associated
with
the
use
of
this
kind
of
technology
that
must
be
addressed
to
facilitate
responsible
Innovation
and
build
public
Trust.
S
S
The
fifty
thousand
dollar
capital
investment
is
to
replace
a
product
that
is
at
the
end
of
its
life,
and
we
are
an
import,
an
important
stage
in
pivoting
the
office
digitally
for
improving
security
and
creating
efficiencies.
Over
time.
As
we
implement
the
new
technology,
we
will
see
cost
reductions
as
we
phase
out
old
technology,
which
will
balance
out
these
costs
going
forward.
S
Approximately
eighty
thousand
dollars
will
be
one-time
cost
to
implement
the
new
technology.
In
addition,
I
am
pleased
that
we
now
have
internal
capacity
to
conduct
our
offense
investigations.
As
such,
we
no
longer
need
to
rely
on
external
contractors
for
this
work,
which
also
reduce
our
costs.
We
are
also
achieving
Savings
in
contracted
services
for
finance
and
HR
and
with
that
I.
Thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
present
to
you
today
and
I
look
forward
to
your
questions.
I
Thank
you
very
much
Mr
chair
and,
of
course,
I,
have
a
series
of
questions,
but,
of
course,
I
will
yield
to
the
other
members
as
we
as
we
go
along
the
first
line,
I
item
or
the
first
line
of
questioning
and,
of
course,
through
you,
Mr
chair
to
our
honorable
guest.
I
First
of
all,
thank
you,
commissioner,
to
you
and
to
your
staff
for
all
the
hard
work
that
you
do
in
in
your
investigations
in
the
office
and
and
making
sure
that
that
we
are
creating
a
better
I
would
say
well
a
better
future
for
Alberta
when
it
comes
to
these
particular
issues.
First,
my
first
line
of
questioning
is
you
mentioned
three
new
goals.
S
They
do
they
are
within
the
Mandate
of
the
information
and
privacy
commissioner,
under
the
three
pieces
of
legislation,
the
issue
that
I
have
seen
I've
now
been
in
the
office
since
the
beginning
of
August
and
I've
spent
the
last
four
months,
looking
very
closely
at
our
processes
and
ways
that
we
can
achieve
some
efficiencies
from
what
I
am
able
to
gather.
S
The
offices
is
suffering
with
considerable
backlogs
and
as
a
result
of
the
budget
constraints
over
the
past
10
years,
it's
there's
been
little
room
left
for
doing
some
of
the
work
that
we
should
be
doing,
which
is
our
Outreach
work
and
supporting
compliance
with
our
stakeholders,
helping
them
achieve
the
things
that
they
need
to
achieve
to
ensure
that
privacy
is
built
into
the
services
that
they're
delivering.
So
with
that
said,
it's
it's
not
it's
new,
because
it's
part
of
the
vision
that
I'm
bringing
to
the
office
and
I'm
trying
to
create
some
capacity.
I
Follow-Up
question:
if
you
don't
mind
Mr
chair,
so
then
these
new
goals
that
you
have
or
the
way
that
you
would
like
to
implement
them.
At
least
how
does
that
compare
to
the
already
existing
work
of
the
investigations
like
if
you
could
put
a
percentage
on
it,
just
to
kind
of
give
me
an
idea.
I
You
know
does
the
put
if
I
may
so
you're
saying
that
the
stakeholder
engagement
and
the
public
engagement,
the
technology
and
Innovation
I
understand
that
it's
it's
connected,
but
in
terms
of
like
the
investigations
themselves,
because
I
see
these
these
as
a
as
another
aspect
of
the
work
of
the
office
right.
So.
S
Yes,
so
so
the
commissioner
has
multiple
mandates
under
the
various
pieces
of
legislation,
we
have
primarily
been
focusing
on
the
investigations
on
the
one
side
of
the
office,
but
on
the
other
side
of
the
office,
we
were
doing
proactive
compliance,
work
with
our
privacy
impact
assessments
and
our
our
comments
in
relation
to
some
breaches.
So
some
of
that
work
already
is
occurring.
What
isn't
occurring
is
more
strategic
Outreach
in
order
to
build
some
relationships
to
facilitate
better
compliance
and
when
I
say
that
I
mean
in
my
experience
in
doing
this
work.
S
As
many
of
you
know,
I've
been
doing
this
kind
of
work
for
for
many
years.
In
my
experience,
there's
it's.
It's
there's
much
more
success
in
moving
ahead
with
certain
projects
when
we
work
together
with
certain
organizations
and
helping
them
Advance
their
objectives,
then,
if
they
go
it
alone,
and
that's
primarily
because
we
have
a
significant
amount
of
expertise
and
we
can
actually
help
them
navigate
the
course.
So
we
do
have
the
enforcement
mandate,
but
we
also
have
the
other
side
of
the
equation,
which
is
advocating
and
supporting
privacy
and
access
to
information
rights.
S
B
I
believe
our
next
questioner
is
Mr
Van
Dyken.
C
Okay,
thank
you
and
thank
you
for
your
work.
Thank
you
for
congratulations
on
the
role
and
you
talked
extensively
with
regards
to
being
able
to
the
backlog
of
the
files
within
the
office
and
and
I
guess
my
my
questions
really
are
around
the
annual
report
and
where
so
it's
on
page,
29
and
and
we
have
91
percent-
were
resolved
in
more
than
100
days.
Files
were
resolved,
cases
were
resolved
in
more
than
180
days.
Six
percent
were
resolved
in
180
days
and
three
percent
were
resolved
within
90
days
and
the
180
days.
C
91
percent
is
that
essentially
because
of
the
volume
of
work?
That's
there
and
and
just
can't
get
to
these
cases,
or
is
that
just
the
depth
of
the
work
that
it
takes
to
resolve
each
case.
C
Already
would
if
I
may
I
think
the
majority
based
on
your
report
is
just
verbally.
Most
of
that
would
be
mediation
and
investigative.
Yes,.
S
Sorry,
thank
you
so
from
what
I
I
can
tell
is,
there
is
a
significant
volume
of
cases
that
are
coming
in
the
door
to
our
through
our
investigation
and
review
stream
and
I've
I've
spent
some
time
crunching
the
numbers
and
the
team
was
formed,
I'm,
going
to
start
with
the
Mi
team.
It
was
formed
in
2013
and
from
what
I
can
tell
it's.
S
It
was
never
really
resourced
appropriately
to
meet
the
the
amount
of
of
cases
coming
in
the
door
and,
of
course
that
is
compounded
significantly
over
the
years
there
was
a
couple
of
years:
2017
18,
18
19,
where
there
was
over
900
files
that
came
in
the
door
and
800
the
following
year,
and
this
team
can
only
process
about
420
per
year.
C
It
does
but
I
know
you
tweaked
another
question
with
regards
to
20
percent,
because
on
the
on
the
graph
that
I'm
seeing
on
page
29
of
the
annual
report,
it
says
two
percent.
There
are
discontinued
during
the
inquiry
process.
C
So
these
are
percentage
of
cases
closed
by
resolution
methods.
So
I
don't
know,
maybe
that
doesn't
coincide,
but
two
percent
withdrawn
during
inquiry
process
and
then
three
percent
commissioner's
decision
to
refuse
to
conduct
an
inquiry
now
I
realize
this
isn't
like
this
is
a
report
from
a
previous
commissioner,
Clayton
and
so
and
I
might
be
reading
this
wrong,
but
it
it
I,
guess
I'm
trying
to
trying
to
understand
what
the
variables
are.
C
That
would
allow
a
case
to
be
resolved
within
90
days
would
allow
a
case
to
be
resolved
with
within
six
percent
like
within
180
days,
and
then
why
so
many
land
up
being
over
180
days
in
in
so
like
if
the
Staffing
level
was
to
to
a
point
where
you're
going
to
be
able
to
catch
up
on
everything
and-
and
you
were
just
starting
fresh.
S
Yes,
so
there
are
timelines
built
into
the
legislation
for
resolving
matters.
Although
the
excuse
me
they
can
be
extended,
some
other
legislation
in
Canada,
from
where
I,
where
I
used
to
work.
For
example,
we
didn't
have
those
abilities
we
had
to
resolve
them
in
a
short
period
of
time.
It
was
typically
90
days
and
then
it
was
at
some
point
reduced
to
60..
S
What
that
meant
is
that
we
had
to
really
look
at
our
processes
and
figure
out.
How
do
we
resolve
things
more
quickly?
So,
to
answer
your
question,
it's
a
bit
of
a
twofold
answer.
One
is:
we
need
to
look
very
closely
at
what
we're
doing
and
how
we're
doing
it
and
try
and
eliminate
unnecessary
work
in
that
process
to
speed
up
the
timelines
to
resolve
matters.
It's
not
always
within
our
ability
to
do
that.
S
If
we're
dealing
with
bodies
that
that
aren't
giving
us
the
information
we
need,
but
you
know
there's
ways
to
try
and
reduce
the
the
amount
of
work
that's
happening.
So
that
is
one
aspect
of
what
we're
doing
now,
even
with
that
we
will
not
have
enough
staff
to
to
get
back
to
where
we
need
to
and
deal
with.
The
demand
coming
in.
S
So
we're
going
to
have
to
spend
a
few
years
undertaking
those
things
to
reduce
our
our
output,
sorry,
our
workload
and
then
with
that
additional
staff
member
and
that
in
place,
I'm,
confident
that
we
can
reduce
those
timelines
significantly.
O
I
You
Mr
Leola,
you
Mr
chair
and
through
you
to
the
commissioner,
so
along
the
lines
of
Investigation.
Still,
of
course,
your
budget
is
asking
for
three
ftes
but
correct
me.
If
I'm
wrong
at
the
in
your
opening
statements,
you
did
mention
hiring
one
more
contractor.
Was
it
for
investigations
or
was
it
for
something
else?.
S
Emotional
contract
dollars
for
some
temporary
support
for
our
mediation
investigation
team
to
help
tackle
the
backlog
they're
currently
managing
about
800
900
cases,
so
they're,
they're,
they're,
pretty
buried,
are
adjudicate.
I'm
also
looking
for
one
to
help.
Our
adjudication
team
get
back
on
track
because
they
too
are
buried
in
work
with
240
cases
sitting
in
the
queue.
I
S
The
teams
will
continue
to
exist
as
they
are.
The
structure
is,
is
a
good
structure,
so
we
will
be
looking
at
our
processes
and
all
the
things
that
we're
doing
our
privacy
impact
assessment
and
breaches
are
also
being
looked
at
as
part
of
my
evaluation
of
the
work
of
the
office.
So
we
will
be
looking
at
that
and
again
with
me
and
one
of
my
assistant
Commissioners.
We
will
be
really
focusing
on
sort
of
these
new
functions
and
you
know
it's.
The
investigative
work
is
really
important
in
our
offices
in
our
office.
S
However,
in
my
experience
there
is
you
get
way
more
value
for
working
with
people
to
help
them
achieve
compliance
than
you
do
in
enforcing
non-compliance.
I
often
call
it
a
Band-Aid
solution
because
it
actually
deals
with
one
particular
organization,
although
technically
the
the
findings
and
recommendations
should
go
beyond
that.
S
When
I've
worked
to
help,
people
I've
felt
that
that
actually
helping
them
understand
the
privacy
laws,
you
know
how
to
implement
them
in
a
way
that
makes
sense
goes
much
farther.
That's
why
I'm
very
committed
to
doing
this
work.
A
D
I
just
wanted
to
start
off
by
welcoming
you
to
Alberta
we're
back
to
Alberta
I
was
on
the
search
committee
and
it's
lovely
to
meet
you
in
person
as
one
you
Connor
to
another,
welcome
to
Alberta,
so
I
just
wanted
to
go
back
and
talk
about
the
backlog.
A
little
bit
goal.
One
addresses
how
your
office
plans
to
enhance
internal
processes,
to
support
your
legislative
mandate
and
improved
timelines,
and
it
seems
like
that's,
a
really
big
task.
S
So
it's
early
days
like
I,
said
I,
you
know,
I
started
the
beginning
of
August
and
I
have
been
working
with
my
my
teams
and
looking
at
our
processes,
and
we've
already
started
some
some
work,
particularly
in
the
Mi
unit,
and
trying
to
help
them
change
the
way
that
they
do
work
so
that
there's
less
amount
of
work
to
do.
S
The
one
benefit
I
have
is
that
I
have
actually
done
all
of
the
things
in
my
office,
so
I
actually
have
a
pretty
good
sense
of
how
they
can
be
done,
and
my
team
they're
they're
excellent
at
what
they
do,
and
so
we
work
together
and
looking
at
ways
to
improve
those
processes.
So
I'm
four
months
in
on
it
we're
making
some
progress.
But
we
have
work
to
do.
D
Really
fair
and
I
remember
when
we
were
looking
at
the
the
resumes
that
was
one
of
the
strengths
that
you
brought
to
the
table
was
your
experience
and
the
depth
of
experience
in
this
world,
and
so
what
what's
your
prediction?
Do
you
think
about
how
the
backlog
will
reduce?
Hopefully,
within
the
next
year,
do
you
have
a
prediction
for
that
I.
S
Can't
give
you
any
solid
numbers,
but
it
is
a
two
to
three
year
plan.
It
will
take
time,
there's
quite
a
few
cases
there
and
when
you
start
to
modify
processes
with
a
team,
that's
a
learning
process
for
them
as
well.
So
it
takes
time
for
them
to
adjust
practices
that
they
may
be
used
to
as
we
move
ahead.
S
You
know
it's
a
change
management
program
project,
so
you
want
to
make
sure
that
you
do
it
carefully
and
considerately,
and
but
I
am
confident
that
we
can
do
it
and
the
the
Mi
team
that
I've
been
working
with
are
very
eager
to
be
working
towards
that
objective
and
we
will
be
looking
at
privacy
impact
assessments
and
reaches
as
well,
and
my
CSI
team,
as
they're
called,
is
also
working
really
hard
at
looking
at
their
processes,
and
that
was
actually
something
they
were
doing
quite
a
bit
before
I
got
there,
so
they
have
some
really
good
processes
already
in
place.
D
B
For
the
information
of
the
committee
we'll
be
going
to
approximately
10
20.
Mr
Loyola.
I
Thank
you
very
much
Mr
chair
again
through
you
to
the
commissioner.
So
from
my
understanding,
you've
CH
you've
chosen
to
move
Communications
from
Contract
Services
and
just
wanted
to
get
your
understanding
on
why
that
decision
was
made.
S
I
think
what
we
did
is
is
we
just
made
it
its
own
line
item
so
actually
some
of
the
work
that
was
already
occurring
for
our
annual
report
or
or
website.
For
example,
thank
you
was
just
in
our
contract
dollars,
so
instead
we
just
created
a
line
item
for
it
to
to
refract.
Sorry
reflect
more
accurately
the
the
kind
of
spending
we're
doing
in
Communications.
S
The
the
technology
projects
are
pardon
me
are
new,
so
we
had
an
existing
technology
budget
because
most
of
our
Technology
support
is
outsourced,
and
so
that's
the
sort
of
the
big
line
item
there.
S
But
there
are
a
couple
of
Technology
projects
that
we
would
like
to
undertake.
Some
of
it
is
to
phase
out
some
of
our
old
technology
and
bring
in
modern
technology
and
some
of
the
the
ways
that
I
want
to
excuse
me
for
a
second.
S
We
can
actually
sort
of
enable
the
submissions
to
to
be
more
in
line
with
the
work
that
we
do
instead
of
getting
submissions
that
are
insufficient,
for
example,
and
it
takes
time
to
process
those
are
non-jurisdictional,
so
we
are
looking
at
some
technology
to
support
us
as
we
create
that
and
of
course,
it'll
allow
I
think
it'll
serve
the
public.
Well,
we're
also
looking
at
establishing
a
pure
means
of
transporting
documentation
electronically.
S
The
office
is
moving
electronically
and
we
have
been
for
some
time
now,
but
we
don't
have
a
secure
means
of
of
communication
that
we
that
we
need
in
order
to
send
and
receive
submissions.
So
that
is
something
I
think
is
is
extremely
important,
because
you
know
we
need
to
ensure
that
there's
adequate
security.
I
E
S
So,
if
I'm,
looking
at
the
specific
goals
that
I
have
before
me
in
terms
of
looking
at
the
innovation
in
technology,
that's
occurring,
there's
some
risks
to
personal
and
health
information,
and
so
what
we
want
to
do
is
to
reach
out
to
certain
organizations
or
application
developers
or
even
the
University
of
Alberta,
who
is
engaged
in
the
development
of
artificial
intelligence
and
other
kinds
of
machine
learning
and
work
with
them
to
help
them
understand
sort
of
the
aspects
of
the
Privacy
legislation
that
can
be
built
into
the
design
of
those
systems.
S
I'm
sure
many
of
the
committee
members
may
know
that
during
the
pandemic,
the
virtual
care
became
a
a
pretty
significant
tool
to
continue
the
delivery
of
health
care
services
and
since
then,
not
only
have
we
seen
the
development
of
a
significant
number
of
virtual
Health
Care
applications,
but
also
many
other
tools
to
support
the
health
care
services
when
it
comes
to
the
use
of
technology.
B
Where
our
time
is
almost
up,
so
maybe
we'll
just
say,
thank
you.
Okay,
if
you
want
to
take
it
offline
and
have
a
conversation
later.
B
Thank
you,
Miss
Miss
Cloud
to
you
and
your
staff
for
your
presentation
and
for
responding
to
the
committee's
questions
for
your
information.
It
is
anticipated
that
the
committee's
decision
on
the
officer's
budget
will
be
sent
out
to
you
in
writing
early
next
week.
Okay,
for
the
committee,
we're
going
to
take
a
short
break
for
those
of
you
online,
we'll
be
coming
back
online
at
10
30
a.m.
To
hear
from
the
ethics
commissioner,
so
we'll
take
a
short
10
minutes
break,
let's
be
back
by
10
30..
Thank
you.
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
B
B
I'd
like
to
welcome
Ms
Tressler
and
her
colleagues
to
the
meeting
today,
I
understand
that,
as
in
previous
years,
you
will
have
a
very
concise
opening
statement.
For
us
floor
is
yours
when
you
are
ready.
T
T
T
So
that's
my
update,
I'd
like
to
turn
to
the
budget
which
I
believe
you
have.
It
is
2.5
percent
higher
than
last
year
and
there
are
four
increases.
The
major
increases
in
salaries
which,
for
the
most
part,
have
already
been
granted
and
we
have
absorbed
quite
a
few
there's
a
small
increase
in
travel
as
we
are
traveling
slightly
more.
As
you
know,
I
travel
to
Calgary
to
interview
the
political
staff,
as
well
as
the
designated
senior
officials
located
there,
because
it
saves
about
20
people
coming
to
Edmonton
and
Mr.
T
There's
also
a
very
small
increase
for
telephones
as
service
Alberta
has
asked
us
to
make
our
own
Arrangements.
In
other
words,
we've
been
we're
going
to
be
booted
off
their
system.
We
expect
there'll,
be
a
one-time
expense
to
transfer
over
to
a
new
system
and
then
the
in
the
other.
The
final
increase
is
in
I.T
and
that's
basically
due
to
inflation
and
increases
in
the
that
have
been
passed
on
To
Us
by
our
contractors.
T
Now,
as
we
have
had
in
all
previous
years
since
my
appointment,
we
had
a
surplus
last
year.
At
least
half
of
it
was
payout
for
vacation
liability
in
the
transfer
of
substantial
vacation
liability
when
Miss
Draper
left,
and
we
make
every
effort
each
year
to
come
under
budget.
We
have
one
contingency
item
that
we
try
not
to
use,
but
we
have
to
include
include
it
in
the
event
that
we
have
a
major
investigation
or
must
make
a
court
appearance.
T
B
D
T
D
U
K
Yep,
just
coming
just
coming
just
a
sec
there
we
go.
Thank
you
very
much
for
your
presentation.
Commissioner.
I
was
just
wondering
if
you
could
put
some
more
explanation
or
color
around
the
request
for
advice
regarding
concurrent
employment.
K
God
love,
whoever
like
I
I,
couldn't
do
another
job
in
addition
to
the
current
job,
I'm
doing
so,
I'm
just
wondering
how
you,
how
you
receive
those
requests
and
what
kind
of
advice
you
are
able
to
walk
through
if
they're
members
of
the
legislature,
I'm
thinking
or
if
there
are
other
designated
office
holders
and
other
people.
T
But
we
have
jurisdiction
over
with
respect
to
concurrent
employment.
Are
the
designated
senior
officials
and
those
are
the
heads
of
the
agency's
boards
and
commissions
as
well?
We
have
that
jurisdiction
still
with
respect
to
the
presidents
of
the
universities,
so
we
have
a
fairly
substantial
form
that
they
fill
out
and
we
make
their
we.
We
won't
even
consider
it
unless
the
chair
of
their
board
has
also
looked
on
at
it
and
signed
off.
T
K
And
then
it
has
to
fit
within
a
template
of
Ethics
understanding,
the
in
terms
of
conflicts
and
things
like
that.
So.
T
It
has
to
it,
there
cannot
be
any
conflict
of
interest
and
we
go
a
little
broader
than
the
definition
in
our
Act
in
terms
of
making
sure
that
this
is
a
good
fit
with
what
they're
doing
the
other
thing
we
look
at-
and
this
is
probably
the
major
factor-
is
what's
the
time
commitment.
Is
this
going
to
take
away
from
the
job
they're
being
paid
to
do.
A
Q
Q
Yeah,
thank
you
and
good
morning
good
to
see
you
here,
mostly
with
regards
to
the
lobbyist
Act
and
the
in
the
issue
of
investigation
and
Fort
and
enforcement.
Q
V
Thank
you
for
the
question
and
it's
good
to
be
here.
This
is
my
first
time
here
so
I
don't
believe
we
have
a
specific
number
for
the
number
of
warnings
that
have
gone
out.
Typically,
the
most
of
the
warnings
that
we
would
have
would
be
for
late
registration
in
the
system.
That
sort
of
thing
so
generally
how
we
would
decide
whether
we
provide
a
warning
or
a
administrative
penalty
would
generally
be
if
it's
a
late
warning
the
length
of
time
that
it
is
late.
V
We
look
at
as
well
for
we
look
at
gifts
as
well
under
the
lobbyists
act.
So
then
that's
you
know.
The
extent
of
the
breach
over
the
gift
limit
that
is
set
would
have
us
consider
whether
we
give
a
warning
or
whether
it's
something
that
we
think
is
more
serious,
that
might
warrant
an
administrative
penalty
or
an
investigation.
A.
Q
Sure
so
also
with
regards
to
then
the
administrative
penalties,
I
I,
think
I
see
that
there
were
actually
no
administrative
penalties
issued.
Is
that
sort
of
I
don't
know,
concurrent
with
other
years
is?
Is
there
sort
of
a
typical
amount
that
would
happen
year
by
year
in
terms
of
actual
administrative
penalties.
V
There
is
so
in
in
this
calendar
year
we
have
issued
I
believe
three
administrative
penalties
which
will
show
up
in
next
year's
report
and
in
years
before
that,
since
the
gift
Provisions
came
into
the
lobbyists
act,
there
generally
have
been
I
would
say
two
or
three
administrative
penalties
a
year
so
last
year,
I
guess
would
have
been
an
anomaly
in
that
there's.
None,
but
there's
typically
only
maybe
two
or
three
in
a
year.
K
Mr
CeCe
I
mean
coming
Mr
chair.
Sorry,
there
yeah
following
up
on
those
questions
about
the
lobbyist
act.
K
It
was
a
really
good
breakdown
in
the
information
that
was
provided
about
the
numbers
and
the
focus
and
and
all
of
that
and
I
was
just
trying
to
reflect
a
little
bit
on
previous
years
are.
Are
we
seeing
anything
different
with
Mr
group?
Congratulations
on
your
new
role.
Are
we
seeing
anything
different
with
regard
to
the
focus
of
lobbyists
or
the
number
of
independent
lobbyists
or
organizational
lobbyists?
The
total
volume
lobbyists
just
maybe
reflect
on
on
what
you're,
seeing
in
your
role.
V
Okay,
yeah,
thank
you
for
the
question,
so
I
think.
As
far
as
the
numbers
go,
they
are
fairly
steady
at
this
point.
The
lobbyist
act
has
been
in
place
for
a
number
of
years
and
they're.
The
number
of
lobbyists
registered
is
fairly
steady
from
year
to
year.
V
V
Now
it's
less
focused
on
the
health
there's
a
lot
focused
on
jobs,
economy
and
that
sort
of
thing
and
various
energy
sectors,
but
yeah
there
was
definitely
I,
think
a
focus
on
health
for
a
while,
and
now
it's
more
of
just
a
broad
range.
B
Thank
you,
Mr
CeCe.
Is
there
anybody
else
that
is
interested
in
asking
questions
of
the
ethics
commissioner.
B
H
Quick
one
I
know
that
a
question
was
asked
about.
Mla
inquiries
regarding
concurrent
employment
and
I
know
that
I
gave
up
my
real
estate
license
to
avoid
any
conflict
of
interest.
Once
I
became
an
Himalayan
I'm
wondering
about
inquiries
that
mlas
may
be
making
towards
yourself
regarding
concurrent
employment
or
business
activities,
or
that
something
that
you're
seeing
regularly
are
there
inquiries
from
mlas
that
are
recent
or
ongoing.
T
We
don't
normally
get
inquiries
from
mlas
I
can
tell
from
the
yearly
disclosure
if
any
have
outside
business
interests.
Of
course,
members
of
executive
Council
cannot.
There
may
be
a
couple
of
mlas
that
have
do
things
on
the
side,
maybe
half
a
dozen,
but
there's
not
that
many.
Q
Yeah
with
regards
to
the
budget,
just
a
small
question,
I
suppose,
but
I
notice
on
Contract
Services,
your
your
current,
your
budget
of
40,
000
you're,
projecting
to
actually
only
use
a
quarter
of
that,
but
you're
re-budgeting
for
forty
thousand
I.
Just
wonder
if
you
can
explain
be
your
anticipated
actual
needs
for
Contract
Services
and
where
that's
going,
if
you're
only
going
to
spend
10
000
this
year
of
it.
T
I
took
off
that
line
was
120
000
and
it
was
basically
to
hire
outside
legal
legal
services.
So
we
try
and
do
everything
in-house
because
we
find
it
less
expensive.
T
But
we
need
that
forty
thousand,
because
if
we
end
it
end
up
on
a
judicial
review
or
if
we
end
up
with
someone
appealing
one
of
our
administrative
penalties
and
have
to
go
to
court,
then
we
will
need
outside
legal
counsel,
because
if
Mr
Degroot
has
made
the
decision
on
administrative
penalty,
he
cannot
then
appear
in
court.
So
that
is
the
area
where
we
need
to
have
it
in
our
budget.
T
But
we
do
everything
possible
not
to
spend
it,
because
if
we're
in
the
middle
of
Investigation
again,
sometimes
we
have
to
bring
an
outside
counsel
for
an
investigation.
We
can't
come
back
to
this
committee
because
it
impacts
our
independence
if
we
have
to
come
back
and
get
money
for
legal
services,
so.
R
J
K
Yeah
just
come
in
sorry
there
we
go
this
apologize,
commissioner,
Trussler
I
I,
the
colloquial
term,
for
it
I
know,
is
cooling
off
I,
don't
know
if
it's
in
your
purview
to
make
decisions
or
recommendations
or
or
pronouncements
about
that,
and
maybe
there's
a
different
way
to
talk
about
it.
Maybe
it's
conflict
of
interest
or
something,
but
do
you
do
you
look
at
those
things
in
your
office.
T
We
get
inquiries
from
people
that
don't
have
those
Provisions
I,
believe
the
deputy
ministers
also
have
those
Provisions.
So
sometimes
we
get
inquiries
outside
of
the
jurisdiction
of
those
three
and
we
can
give
advice,
but
those
three
they're
definite
legislative
provisions.
And
last
year
we
had
87
requests
for
advice.
K
Oh
great,
with
regard
to
the
ones
that
are
in
the
cabinet
or
Premier
I
I
think
you
said
that
captain
or
Premier
that
those
are
the
ones
you
look
at
How.
Do
you
you
give
advice?
Is
there?
Is
there
a
subsequent
follow-up
with
regard
to
once
they
land
in
whatever
position
they're
in
do
you?
Do
you
in
fact
verify
that
they
followed,
through
with
the
advice.
T
They
will
ask
us
if
they
take
a
position,
they
usually
ask
for
approval.
We
don't
give
an
approval.
We
say
we
do
not
believe.
If
you
take
this
position,
you
will
be
in
breach
of
the
post-employment
provisions
in
the
act,
but
remember
you've
still
got
the
prohibitions
for
a
year.
Occasionally
we
will,
if
they're,
going
to
a
job.
Where
we're
a
little
bit
concerned,
we
will
ask
for
a
letter
of
comfort
from
their
employer
that
they
will
not
have
them.
Do
these
things.
O
T
And
and
we
sort
of
watch
you
know
we're
we're,
always
we're
kind
of
nosy,
so
we
watch
to
see
where
people
go
and
and
to
make
sure
that
the
ACT
isn't
being
breached,
and
certainly
we
rely
on
people
to
tell
us
if
it
is
being.
K
And
the
people
you
rely
on,
are
they
the
person
or
are
they
people
outside
of
the
person
that
you're
you're
you?
We.
T
Get
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
letters
about
situations,
and
sometimes
that
gives
us
the
information
or
sometimes
we
just
find
out,
because
there's
a
press
release
that
they've
gone
to
a
certain
job.
And
so
we
watch
those
and.
T
K
In
a
full
year
after
post
elected
stepping
down,
I
mean
full
year.
Yes,.
K
P
B
Okay,
you
were
completed.
Is
there
anybody
else
here
in
online
or
in
the
room?
That
has
an
question.
B
Well,
I
guess
we're
at
the
end,
then
I
want
to
thank
you
for
your
presentation
and
your
to
your
staff
as
well
and
for
your
information.
It's
anticipated
that
the
committee's
decision
on
the
officer's
budgets
will
be
sent
out
to
you
early
in
writing
next
week.
Thank
you.
Okay.
Thank.
T
B
J
B
Well,
thank
you
for
joining
us
today
joining
us
for
our
final
session.
This
morning
we
have
Mr
Peter,
sherston
and
staff
from
both
the
office
of
the
Ombudsman
and
the
office
of
the
public
interest.
Commissioner,
welcome
and
thank
you
for
joining
us
today,
although
Mr
sherston
and
his
colleagues
are
here
to
present
the
budgets
for
both
offices,
I
would
like
to
remind
anyone
watching
these
proceedings
that
the
office
of
the
Ombudsman
in
the
office
of
the
public
interest,
commissioner,
are
two
separate
entities
governed
by
different
legislation
and
with
their
own
budgets.
B
Consequently,
we
will
provide
for
the
interest
of
the
the
committee
here,
probably
about
45
minutes
or
so
for
the
first
one
and
probably
about
30
minutes
for
the
for
the
second
presentation.
So
with
that
in
mind,
we
will
Begin
by
reviewing
the
information
for
the
office
of
the
Ombudsman,
when
you
are
ready.
Please
Begin,
by
introducing
your
colleagues.
W
W
Good
morning,
thank
you,
Mr
chair
committee
members
for
giving
our
office
the
opportunity
to
appear
before
you
today,
I'm
Peter
sherstan,
as
I
said,
the
acting
and
with
Suzanne
and
Greg
next
slide
this
morning,
I'll
briefly
presenting
elements
of
each
office's
2122
annual
reports
Greg
will
address
the
2324
business
plans
and
Suzanne
will
speak
to
our
our
office's
budget
for
the
upcoming
fiscal
year.
I'll
start
first
with
the
ombudsman
every
day
in
Alberta,
public
servants
in
government
departments,
agencies
boards
and
commissions
make
hundreds
of
administrative
decisions
that
impact
individual
albertans.
W
In
some
cases,
individuals
believe
these
decisions
could
be
arbitrary,
unjust
or
unfair,
and
for
those
times
when
an
individual
individual
believes
they
were
treated
unfairly.
We
provide
an
independent
and
impartial
resource
to
which
they
can
come,
but
in
order
to
access
the
Ombudsman,
it's
crucial
that
albertans
are
aware
how
to
connect
with
our
offices
and
how
we
may
be
able
to
assist
the
Ombudsman,
provides
oversight
to
ensure
fair
treatment
through
independent
investigations.
Recommendations
and
education
simply
put
our
purpose
to
ensure
that
albertans
get
a
fair
shake
when
dealing
with
the
public
service.
W
It's
a
free
service,
it's
accessible
to
anyone
which
is
important
to
many
albertans
who
do
not
have
financial
resources
or
knowledge
to
navigate
what
they
see,
sometimes
as
a
bureaucratic
juggernaut.
But
it's
important
to
emphasize
also
that
we
are
not
Advocates,
we're
not
advocates
for
the
complainant,
nor
are
we
Defenders
of
any
public
government
Authority.
We
are
advocates
for
fairness
in
my
acting
role.
My
intent
is
not
to
encumber
the
incoming
Ombudsman,
but
rather
to
place
the
office
in
a
solid
position.
W
The
first
example
relates
to
a
program
that
provides
support
for
low-income
seniors,
who
can't
afford
expensive
Dental
Care.
Our
office
received
a
complaint
from
a
senior
who
was
denied
assistance
to
fund
dental
procedures.
One
of
the
concerns
identified
by
our
investigation
was
that
the
complainant's
inability
to
appeal
the
request
for
when
he
was
denied
financial
assistance.
W
So
when
we
compare
this
with
other
programs,
this
lack
of
an
appeal
process
was
concerning
to
our
office
our
investigate
our
investigation
found
that
albertans
under
the
age
of
65,
who
were
denied
assistance
for
dental
costs
when
they're
involved
involved
with
programs
such
as
income
support
or
H.
They
have
the
right
to
appeal
to
something
called.
W
The
health
benefits
exception
committee,
but
the
person
over
65
could
not
so
the
fact
that
a
64
year
old
who's
denied
could
do
an
appeal,
but
a
65
year
old
albertan
could
not
was
found
to
be
unfair
by
my
office.
It's
a
consequence
of
our
investigation.
We
made
recommendations
to
two
Ministries
seniors
in
housing
and
health.
Both
Ministries
have
undertaken
review
of
relevant
legislation
and
corresponding
appeal
procedures
to
ensure
that
seniors
are
provided
with
the
same
level.
W
W
The
minister
of
Health,
however,
refused
to
comply
with
the
decisions
of
the
committee
and
the
panel
and
the
complainant
sought
assistance
from
our
office.
The
Department's
initial
reluctance
to
comply
with
the
decision
of
an
arm's
length
appeal
panel
caused
the
armor
to
be
serious
concern
to
the
ombudsman.
The
issue
is
very
straightforward.
The
appeal
panel
had
rendered
decision
and
the
department
was
responsible
under
the
law
to
comply
thanks
to
a
collaborative
effort
between
our
office
and
the
assistant,
Deputy
Minister,
the
ministry
changed
its
position
and
the
substantial
medical
expense
was
paid.
W
Another
case
I'd
like
to
update
the
committee
on
relates
to
the
summary
found
in
our
2021
annual
report.
In
that
case,
we
reported
that
the
foster
parents
there
was
an
inability
for
foster
parents
to
appeal
decisions
under
the
child,
Youth
and
Family
enhancement.
Act,
prior
to
our
investigation
and
recommendations,
the
legislation
was
unclear
as
to
whether
foster
parents
had
the
ability
to
appeal
decisions
regarding
their
licensing
I'm
pleased
to
see
that
in
June
of
this
year
the
ministry
acted
on
our
office's
recommendation
and
the
Act
was
amended.
W
W
The
slide
we
have
up
here
is
demonstrative
of
what
I'd
like
to
talk
to
you
when
the
jurisdiction
for
investigating
complaints
about
municipalities
was
transferred
from
Municipal
Affairs
to
the
Ombudsman
in
2018,
funding
for
five
positions
was
transferred
from
Municipal
Affairs
to
our
budget.
This
would
have
had
a
zero,
a
net
zero
impact
on
General
Revenue
fund,
as
any
increase
to
our
budget
at
the
Ombudsman
side
was
offset
by
a
reduction
in
Municipal
Affairs
the
following
year.
The
committee
approved
funding
that
resulted
in
one
additional
FTE
to
our
office.
W
However,
it
became
apparent
at
a
certain
point
that
the
workload
we
had
anticipated
from
municipalities
had
not
materialized
and
consequently,
in
2021,
given
the
need
for
additional
resources
was,
was
not
there.
The
Ombudsman
reduced
her
budget
by
eight
percent
and
eliminated
three
fdes,
as
you
can
see,
on
the
chart
and
we've
been
there
for
since
that
time.
W
Our
annual
Port
indicates
the
total
cases
this
year
were
4
662.
when
compared
with
previous
years.
You'll
note
this
not
an
increase.
Our
projected
caseload
for
this
current
year
is
estimated
4
700.
If
we
track
in
line
with
where
we
are
today,
so
the
question
arises,
why
would
I
be
asking
for
an
increase
in
funding
if
we
don't
have
an
increase
in
cases
and
the
simple
one
word
answer
is
complexity
case
numbers
can
be
deceiving.
Not
all
cases
are
equal.
W
Some
of
our
cases
are
resolved
with
four
hours
of
investigative
time
and
or
over
within
a
week.
We
have
other
cases
that
can
take
multiple
investigators
as
a
team
and
they
could
take
18
months
and
consume
hundreds
of
hours,
but
yet
they
both
count
for
one
case
so
case
loads,
aren't
necessarily
indicative
of
workload
to
address
the
increased
complexity
and
reduce
timelines
associated
with
resolving
a
Citizens
complaint.
W
We
are
seeking
two
additional
entry-level
investigator
positions
in
our
office
if
funded
and
if
approved
these
positions,
would
help
address
the
increased
complexity,
reduce
timelines
to
resolve
complaints
and
balance
the
workload
distribution,
the
primary
drivers
of
complexity
and
found
in
our
complaints
relating
to
municipalities
and
Professional
Health
colleges,
we
oversee
28
different
Health
colleges,
five
professional
colleges
as
well.
The
increase
in
workload
relates
to
the
complexity
in
these
cases,
rather
than
the
volume
of
cases.
W
W
Rather,
municipalities
are
a
separate
entity
unto
themselves
with
the
ability
to
create
their
own
legislation
through
bylaws,
so
with
over
344
municipalities
operating
in
the
province,
we
see
striking
differences
in
how
they
interpret
and
how
they
interpret
and
applied
bylaws,
as
well
as
wide
variations
and
policy
and
procedures.
The
when
municipalities
deal
with
the
exact
same
issue,
one
example
we
recently
or
we
had
previously
deals
with
a
landowner's
desire
to
subdivide
his
property.
W
So
initially
our
office
believed
the
investigation
would
be
simple,
we'd,
be
looking
at
the
administrative
fairness
of
a
decision
from
a
subdivision
and
development
appeal
board.
However,
it
became
apparent
as
our
investigation
looked
at
the
evidence.
It
was
like
pulling
on
a
a
thread
that
leads
to
a
big
Clump
ball
of
string.
She
had
to
look
at
just
entangled
the
decisions
for
municipal
bylaws
interpret.
W
W
Additionally,
we
have
seen
complaints
related
to
Professional
Health
colleges
double
over
the
last
fiscal
year
and
the
time
to
take
into
resolve
them
has
also
significantly
increased
in
2021,
25
of
the
cases
were
opened
and
closed
within
90
days
or
sorry,
we're
opened
after
90
days,
so
we've
got
75
percent
of
them
done
within
three
months,
but
in
last
year
it
Rose
to
77
of
the
cases
that
remained
open.
So
we
went
from
having
a
quarter
resolved
to
having
75
unresolved,
so
a
significant
difference.
W
This
can
be
attributed
to
the
increased
complexity
we
are
seeing.
The
impact
of
not
resolving
a
complaint
in
a
timely
manner
is
twofold.
The
first
thing
is
the
fairness
if
it
exists
continues,
and
secondly,
so
that's
impacting
the
the
person
who
made
the
complaint
and
other
albertans
in
the
same
situation
and
also
it
can
result
in
additional
complaints
to
our
office.
W
The
impact
of
this
complexity
is
impacting
our
ability
to
close
cases
on
the
in
a
timely
manner.
This
chart
shows
the
percentage
of
cases
resolved
in
less
than
and
greater
than
90
days
in
a
perfect
world.
All
the
bars
would
be
dark
blue,
as
seen
on
the
left.
That
would
mean
that
we've
resolved
all
cases
within
90
days.
W
Again,
it's
not
a
volume
issue.
It's
a
complexity
issue.
Another
Factor,
impacting
our
office
will
be
the
expansion
of
our
jurisdiction.
The
education
Amendment
Act
created
the
new
office
of
the
Alberta
teaching
profession,
commissioner,
which
will
fall
under
the
ombudsman's
jurisdiction.
Once
the
commissioner
makes
a
final
decision,
complainants
may
come
to
the
Ombudsman
to
request
an
investigation
into
that
decision,
although
it's
unknown
to
know
unknown
at
this
time,
what
the
specific
impacts
will
be
with
over
40
000
teachers
in
Alberta,
it's
reasonable
to
forecast
an
increase
in
complaints
to
our
office.
W
One
element
of
our
previous
and
current
business
plan
was
to
focus
on
promotion
of
fairness,
Concepts
and
practices
to
both
authorities
under
our
jurisdiction
and
to
albertans
who
may
require
our
services,
while
I'm,
confident
we're
doing
well
in
educating
public
servants
and
agencies.
Boards
and
government
departments
I
see
a
need
to
grow
our
capacity
specifically
to
reach
the
members
of
the
public.
W
The
people,
we
believe,
would
benefit
most
from
our
office
potential
complainants
often
come
from
vulnerable
populations.
They
may
be
individuals
with
physical
or
intellectual
disabilities,
those
affected
by
poverty,
newcomers
to
Alberta
seniors
or
one
of
the
many
groups
who
struggle
to
be
heard
for
people
who
know
about
the
Ombudsman.
Our
office
is
easy
to
access.
However,
at
a
recent
National
Conference,
the
issue
of
a
general
lack
of
the
Public's
awareness
of
the
Ombudsman
function
was
a
topic
of
significant
discussion.
W
We
see
her
in
Alberta
as
do
our
counterparts
throughout
Canada.
The
same
thing
surveys
conducted
by
the
BC
Ombudsman
are
obvious
person
in
British,
Columbia
and
Quebec
have
shown
that
less
than
20
percent
of
those
surveys
were
aware
of
the
offices,
their
functions
and
the
services
they
provided
at
last
year's
committee
meeting
there
was
a
question
related
to
establishing
metrics
to
assess
the
effectiveness
of
awareness
initiatives.
W
I
can
confirm
to
the
committee
that
our
office
has
engaged
with
the
largest
Canadian
owned
polling
market
and
research
and
analytics
firm
to
determine
albertan's
level
of
awareness,
understanding
and
perceptions
of
our
office.
These
findings
will
be
used
to
assess
our
current
position
and
develop
a
formal
strategic
Outreach
plan,
but
in
order
to
advance
that
plan,
it
would
be
necessary
to
have
an
individual
dedicated
to
coordinating
and
delivering
awareness
initiatives.
Consequently,
I'm
seeking
funding
for
a
position
dedicated
to
increasing
the
public
awareness
of
the
ombudsman's
role
and
services.
W
The
Alberta
Amazon
was
created
in
1967,
and
this
was
based
on
something
called
The
Clement
report,
in
which
the
author
called
for
the
appointment
of
an
ombuds,
so
abbots,
2
and
I
quote:
assist
the
ordinary
citizen
who's
bewildered
by
the
complexities
of
departmental
government
and
feels
he
has
been
done
on
Injustice,
unquote,
I
would
suggest
this
statement
is
just
as
valid
today's.
It
was
over
50
years
when
our
office
was
created,
therefore,
I'm
seeking
additional
resources
so
that
our
offices
May
provide
a
sufficient
level
of
service
to
albertans.
X
These
strategic
objectives
derive
achievable
smart
goals
for
our
staff
to
accomplish
and
thereby
satisfy
the
Ombudsman
strategic
intent
through
the
effort
of
the
staff.
We
have
largely
accomplished
the
goals
we
charted
last
year.
Among
the
achievements,
a
comprehensive
policy
and
procedure
review
was
conducted
to
improve
the
efficiency
of
our
processes
and
numerous
Outreach
efforts
were
undertaken.
X
For
the
upcoming
fiscal
year,
our
Focus
has
shifted.
Society's
emergence
from
the
pandemic.
Has
us
examining
how
we
do
business
our
practices,
work,
environment,
training
and
pretty
much
everything
else
required
in
Innovation
and
change
through
interaction
with
our
peers
in
other
provinces.
We
realize
we
have
a
lot
to
offer.
Thus
our
goal
for
the
forthcoming
year
will
be
to
be
recognized
as
both
a
national
and
international
leader
in
ombuds
practices
based
on
the
feedback
provided
by
the
committee
last
year.
This
will
include
the
development
of
performance
measures
and
analytics
for
our
office.
X
Outreach
remains
essential.
Albertans
and
authorities
must
be
aware.
The
Ombudsman
exists
to
promote
fair
treatment
for
citizens.
Our
second
outcome
includes
strategic
strategies
to
enhance
awareness
of
the
office
and
its
function.
Finally,
we
will
continue
to
advocate
for
changes
to
the
ombudsman's
governing
legislation.
X
Y
Also
I'd
like
to
emphasize
the
continued
importance
of
Ombudsman
staff,
providing
executive,
legal
and
corporate
services
to
the
public
interest
Commissioner's
Office
annually.
This
shared
service
Arrangement
results
in
significant
savings
to
albertans
forecasted
to
be
370
thousand
dollars
for
the
current
year,
2022-23
and
439
thousand
dollars
for
23.24..
W
B
H
You
Mr
Karen,
who
are
you
I
like
to
thank
the
presenters
for
their
information
and
I,
felt
that
we've
had
two
themes
resonate
through
the
presentations
from
all
of
you
and
I'll
deal
with
them
separately.
The
first
one,
of
course,
was
glaringly
clear,
I
think
from
the
outcome.
Three
on
page
four
I.
Think
of
the
business
plan
where
you
state
that
the
update
of
the
ACT
is
is
an
ongoing
and
urgent
need.
W
So
we've
written
to
the
with
the
support
of
the
committee
last
year,
we've
written
to
Justice
we've
spoken
with
both
ministers
who
have
had
the
portfolio
we
have
yet
to
be
engaged
with
anyone
drafting
anything.
At
this
time
we
are
prepared
and
just
waiting
for
to
be
approached
and
to
move
forward.
There's
several
impediments
within
the
act
of
administratively.
We
have
documents
dating
back
to
the
origin
of
of
the
act
that
which
are
still
retained
and
at
as
per
the
ACT,
which
says
they
must
be
restained
on
microfiche.
W
We
still
have
a
microfiche
reader
in
there
that
that's
so
so,
and
just
the
the
privacy
issues
with
the
right.
Why
would
we
be
retaining
documents
with
people's
names
of
things
that
have
been
resolved
decades
ago?
So
it
is
certainly
a
priority.
There's
other
administrative
things
such
as
my
physician
currently
as
the
acting,
hopefully
the
new,
and
thank
you
to
those
committee
members
who
are
on
the
search
committee.
W
Hopefully,
the
new
Amazon
Huntsman
will
be
in
here
shortly
and
just
the
transitionary
there's
there's
things
within
the
act
that
make
it
difficult
to
have
an
acting
Ombudsman
and
to
make
that
transition,
which
has
caused
the
clerk
a
significant
amount
of
of
work
over
the
recent
time.
So
just
little
things
that
weren't
thought
of
in
1967-
most
importantly
I,
would
say
they're
things
like
our
early
resolution
process.
Informal
resolution
of
complaints
wasn't
something
that
was
was
thought
of
in
1967..
W
We've
made
some
interpretations
of
the
ACT,
but
we
think
those
are
important
to
be
codified
within
the
ACT
moving
forward,
so
that
that
the
ACT
reflects
evolving
practices
in
the
field
and,
lastly,
municipalities,
there's
still
some
things
that
need
to
be
clarified.
We
are
given
jurisdictional
municipalities,
but
there
was
limited
information
on
that
of
how
far
it
extends
into
some
of
the
quasi-judicial
boards
that
they
that
they
that
arise
from
municipality
and
whether
they're
independent
of
the
municipality
or
whether
they
belong
to
the
municipality
and
what
our
oversight
is
of
that.
H
It
seems
to
me
that
the
ACT
needs
a
complete
overhaul
and
you're
waiting
for
government
to
take
the
bull
by
the
horns
and
get
involved
with
you
to
make.
That
start.
W
To
happen,
absolutely
we
have
a
that
is
a
priority
was
in
our
last
business
plan.
It
continues
to
be
in
this
plan
and
we
are
ready
to
act.
We
have
several
items
that
that
we
would
like
to
see
within
that
act.
Unlike
the
public
interest,
commissioner,
where
there's
a
five-year
review
period
required
of
the
legislation,
most
news
piece
pieces
of
legislation
have
that
Clause.
We
would
like
to
see
that
into
the
act
so
that
every
five
years
a
committee
is
formed.
H
The
time
okay,
thanks
for
that-
and
that
leads
into
my
second
theme,
which
I'll
embark
on
now,
and
that
has
to
do
with
the
the
word
complexity
that
came
up
repeatedly
through
your
presentations
and
that
there
seems
to
be
a
of
course.
You're
talking
about
the
volume
is
not
the
reason
for
the
backlog.
It's
it's
complexity
of
the
cases
that
you
are
now
faced
with
and
I
wanted
to
ask.
If,
indeed,
you
could
put
a
0.2
to
a
reason
why
the
complexity
of
these
cases
has
increased.
H
There
seems
to
be
a
point
in
time,
Beyond,
which
these
cases
became
more
complex
or
you
received
more
complex
cases,
and
it
appears
to
be
related
to
perhaps
some
of
your
success
in
letting
the
public
know
about
what
your
office
does
so
is
that
somewhat
related?
Are
people
more
aware
of
your
office's
capacity
and
the
scope
of
your
office
and
therefore
others
that
wouldn't
have
thought
to
bring
forward
a
complaint
to
your
office
or
inquiry
to
your
office
are
now
doing
so?
W
It's
hard
to
cut
or
to
to
quantify
exactly
where
some
of
these
cases
come
from,
but
I
would
I
would
like
to
think
that
a
lot
of
it
has
to
do
with
people
seeing
the
results
of
some
of
the
things
that
we've
achieved
and
as
a
result
of
that
they're
aware
of
that
of
a
gateway
to
something
that
they
might
not
have
thought
of
before.
This
might
be
a
bad
analogy,
but
it's
kind
of
like
a
having
a
plumber.
You
don't
know
who
your
plumber
is
until
you
need.
W
You
need
your
plumber
and
then
you're
very
happy
that
you
have
a
good
one.
The
same
thing
with
us.
A
lot
of
people
go
through
their
their
interactions
with
government
without
having
any
unfairness
exposed,
so
they
don't
need
the
Ombudsman,
but
when
they
do
and
they
start
to
look
at
our
website,
they
look
at
some
of
the
cases
posted
and
they
go
hey.
That's
similar
in
my
case.
Look
what
the
result
was
happening.
W
One
of
the
examples
I
can
give
is
with
some
of
the
complaints
we
have
with
related
to
the
professional
health
colleges
and
also
with
the
patient
concern
proceeding
so
Alberta
Health
Services
overseas
over
I
think
it's
12
000
concerns
that
they
get
on
an
annual
basis.
If
someone's
unsatisfied
with
the
decision
made
by
the
patients
concern
officer,
they
can
make,
they
can
come
to
our
office
for
a
review.
So
imagine
if
you
will
someone
who
has
a
sub-optimal
incident
that
happens
within
an
ER
room
and
they're,
just
not
happy.
W
They
could
complain,
complain
to
the
patient's
concern
officer
who
do
investigation.
They
could
complain
to
the
College
of
Physicians
and
surgeon.
They
could
complain
to
the
karna,
the
nursing
association
as
well,
our
College
of
Nursing,
all
those
those
complaints.
The
same
incident
results
in
three
different
colleges,
interacting
and
if
they're
unsatisfied,
with
the
results
of
those
colleges
they've
come
to
us
and
we've
had
cases
where
we're
looking
at
the
same
incident
but
having
to
investigate
multiple
complaints
through
the
different
colleges.
So
that's
another
level
of
complexity,
because
you're,
looking
at
one
incident
but
you're.
W
Looking
at
how
the
nursing
college
made
their
decision.
Looking
at
how
the
college
and
physician
made
their
concern
decision
and
you're
looking
at
the
patient
relations
office
made
their
decision.
H
W
Hard
to
project-
it's
I,
don't
know
if
we
saw
this
coming,
it's
just
kind
of
is
naturally
Arisen
and
now
that
it's
here
will
it
taper
off
or
will
it
continue
to
grow?
I
can't
really
provide
an
opinion
at
this
time.
H
Q
Oh
yeah,
thank
you
very
much
and
thanks
for
being
here,
congratulations
on
the
budget
savings
by
the
way,
but
that's
not
the
area
of
my
question
at
the
moment:
I'm
actually
interested
to
learn
a
little
bit
more
about
the
the
jurisdictions
I
guess
that
that
may
be
the
Lion's,
Share
or
or
or
maybe
not,
but
are
increasing
in
terms
of
numbers.
Q
You've
already
talked
about
complexity
and,
and
then,
conversely,
are
there
jurisdictions
where
there
are
very
few
cases
coming
up
and
and
from
the
from
from
the
citizen
side
of
that,
it's
the
issues
like
what
are
the
top
issues
that
these
top
jurisdictions
are
are
facing.
Just
wonder
if
you
could
comment
on
that.
Please.
X
I'd
just
like
to
clarify,
sir,
you
would
like
to
know
the
The
prominent
issues
that
we've
see.
X
I
would
I'll
have
to
get
accurate
information
for
you,
sir,
but
just
based
on
my
recollection
on
the
provincial
government
side.
Corrections
is
a
very
high
flyer
for
us.
We
get
a
lot
of
inmate
concerns.
X
X
Q
Up
yeah
go
ahead,
different
kind
of
question,
but
sort
of
related.
Do
you
have
a
lot
of
issues
that
you
would
have
to
characterize
as
frivolous
or
even
vexatious
complaints,
and
and
how
much
does
that
cost
your
department
in
terms
of
Staffing
and
budget
and
all
that
sort
of
stuff.
X
It's
certainly,
there
are
Provisions
within
the
act
for
frivolous
and
vexatious
complaints
and
how
we
can
deal
with
them.
X
We
are
loath
to
go
down
that
path
frequently,
because
what
we
may
perceive
as
frivolous
or
vexations
to
the
complainant
may
be
very
personal
and
very
relevant,
so
we
try
and
review
the
complaints
on
the
merits
of
as
the
complainant
brings
it
forward.
We
triage
them
against
our
administrative
fairness
principles
and
then
we
try
and
work
with
the
authority
to
see
if
we
can
get
resolution
or
if
we
need
to
pull
the
trigger
pardon
the
the
statement
on
a
full
investigation,
then
we'll
go
down
that
route
as
well.
X
So
the
frivolous
investigations
we
do
have
the
provisions,
but
we
really
invoke
them
just
because
it's
impossible
to
incorporate
everybody's
perspective,
I'm,
not
sure.
If
that
answers.
Your
question,
sir.
W
A
follow
up
on
that
tour,
it's
what
we
do
see
and
what
we
have
seen
is
an
increase
in
what
we
call
individuals
who
demonstrate
complex
behaviors,
so
that
takes
a
considerable
amount
of
time
to
managing
individuals
who
who
feel
they've
been
treated
unfairly.
But
disagreement
with
the
decision
does
not
mean
that
decision
was
unfair,
but
some
people
have
had
difficulty
accepting
that
and
they'll
perhaps
try
and
make
another
complaint
on
the
exact
same
issue.
W
That's
already
been
determined
by
an
appeal
body
and
then
assess
by
ourselves
to
find
that
the
decision
was
administratively
fair
and
then
they
just
have
trouble
accepting
that,
so
that
can
cause
significant
workload.
So
the
frivolous
and
vexation
is
not
so
much.
The
complex
behaviors
of
certain
individuals
can
be
very
burdensome.
That
makes
sense.
Q
E
Tour
and
thank
you
very
much
for
all
the
report
and
all
the
work
you
do
and
I
think
it
does
helpful
buttons
for
the
fairness
they
are
looking
for
and
they
you
know
that
there
is
a
help.
My
question
is
about
your
report.
On
page
nine,
it
mentioned
the
number
of
recommendations
that
you
have
office
have
provided
to
various
government
agencies
or
different
municipalities
such
as
city
of
Edmonton,
Calvary,
Lethbridge,
just
Ramirez
Statler
and
some
Professional
Organization
boards
commissions.
E
W
You
there
is
a
real
large
ebb
and
flow
on
the
recommendations
that
we
make
and
that
becomes
it
depends
on
the
case.
We've
had
some
very
significant
cases
where
we've
made
one
recommendation
that
has
had
significant
impacts
on
a
large
number
of
albertans.
We've
had
other
cases
that
might
be
less
significant,
but
we
make
four
or
five
in
recommendations.
So,
for
example,
the
biggest
thing
that
we
see
is
inadequate
reasons
is
people
not
providing
adequate
reasons
within
a
decision
that
they've
made
the
right
decision.
They
just
haven't.
W
Let
the
the
individual
know
that's
how
they
arrived
at
that
decision.
So
one
of
our
common
recommendations
is
adequate
reasons
are
provided,
but
sometimes
it's
built
into
their
system
that
they
don't
have
a
mechanism.
They
don't
have
the
correspondence
the
template,
letters,
they
don't
have
things
in
their
policy
or
process
that
would
require
them
to
go
through
the
process
to
provide
adequate
reasons,
so
that
might
result
in
two
recommendations:
a
change
in
policy
and
contacting
the
individual
albertan
to
provide
them
better
reasons
as
to
why
they
made
that
decision.
So
it's
really
hard.
W
E
X
So,
sir,
this
is
the
performance
measures
for
outcome.
Two
on
that
right
now
we
are
looking
at
developing
quantitative
and
qualitative
performance
measures
for
our
casework
and
we
think
it's
important
to
capture
both
so
that
we
can
accurately
measure
the
effectiveness
of
the
service
that
we're
delivering
and
sorry
part
to
your
question,
sir,
was.
X
W
So
this
past
year
we've
done
34
different
presentations
to
do
be
they
stakeholders
to
the
big
government
authorities
or
to
individual
advocacy
groups.
John
Howard
Society
would
be
an
example.
Excuse
me,
but
we're
not
really
we
don't
have
a.
We
have
a
a
plan,
but
it's
not
as
strategic
as
we
want
it
to
be,
and
that's
why
we've
engaged
this
polling
and
Market
analytical
company,
who
did
a
a
very
extensive
project,
similar
in
British
Columbia,
to
get
their
services.
W
We
want
to
know
different
sectors
in
Alberta,
be
there
rural
urban
just
just
to
know
what
their
awareness
is,
what
their
perception
of
our
office
is
and
that
will
enable
us
to
better
Target
those
individuals.
It's
hard
to
reach
the
everyday
albertan
advertising
doesn't
work.
We
used
to
do
things
like
you
know:
bus
banners,
that's
probably
not
the
most
effective.
Again,
you
don't
need
a
plumber
until
you
need
a
plumber,
and
if
you
see
that
ad
for
a
plumber,
you
don't
have
a
problem.
You're,
not
gonna,
you're,
not
gonna.
W
Take
that
in
same
thing
with
the
Ombudsman
one
of
the
best
initiatives,
We
Believe
moving
forward
is
we
deal.
We
should
be
dealing
with
advocacy
groups,
because
when
people
have
a
problem,
they
go
to
their
advocacy
group
and
that
advocacy
group
is
the
one
who's
going
to
help
them.
We
need
to
reach
out
to
those
advocacy
groups
so
that
we're
in
their
in
their
we
used
to
call
them
rolodexes
but
we're
in
their
phone
phone
book
where
they
know
that.
W
Hang
on
this
person's
complaining
about
a
government
decision,
they
fixed
unfair,
that's
an
ombudsman
issue
and
then
they
can
connect
us.
So
that's
where
we
want
to
drive
our
strategies
find
out
what
algorithms
know
about
us,
what
they
think
about
us
and
then
drive
our
strategy
forward
so
that
we
can
have
people
direct
their
clients
to
us
moving
forward.
Q
Q
Else
wants
to
go
ahead,
I
just
interested
sort
of
in
a
you
know:
I,
don't
know
the
the
the
the
budget
travel
piece.
I
know
we've
been
through
covet,
I
know
things.
The
world's
changed
technology
has
evolved.
A
million
miles
in
terms
of
what
it
used
to
be
online
meetings
are
extremely
efficient,
effective
and
time
timely,
but
but
people
don't
like
them,
they
were
all
sick
of
them.
Q
So
I
just
wonder
what
your
thoughts
are
on.
That
I
mean
there's
an
efficiency
there
to
be
had
certainly
for
some
kinds
of
meetings
more
than
others.
Do
you
really
see
yourself
returning
to
full
in-person
meetings,
or
do
you
still
intend
to
use
the
efficiencies
of
some
online
meetings
for
appropriate
kinds
of
uses?
Also.
W
I'll
have
Suzanne
speak
to
the
budget
after
so
we
were
very
well
prepared.
Fortunately,
the
the
previous
Ombudsman
had
us
well
set
up,
but
when
covet
hit,
we
all
had
laptops.
We
all
had
VPN
access,
we
were
able
to
transition
very
quickly
and
we've
continued
on
and
our
people
got
up
to
speed
very
quickly.
W
Yes,
there's
certainly
some
Advantage
advantages
that
that
come
with
not
having
to
travel
Highway
2
during
a
day
like
last
night,
so
we
have
people
who
are
able
to
do
all
that
we
need
to
do
remotely,
but
there
are
things
that
certainly
benefit
when
you're
in
person.
We
currently
have
an
own
motion
going
on
where
we're
looking
into
a
government
program.
W
They
had
sticky
notes
everywhere
they
had
flip
charts
going,
they
had
the
computer
screen
going
and
they
were
working
through
the
process
that
in
everyday
Alberta
would
have
to
do
if
they
were
denied
this
letter
or
denied
this
program
to
get
this
letter,
and
the
next
step
would
be
this
letter
and
then
they
would
be
expected
to
do
this.
So
just
that
wouldn't
be
something
to
be
able
to
do
remotely
like
having.
We
had
members
from
our
Calgary
team,
as
well
as
our
Edmonton
team
together
in
the
boardroom.
W
W
Another
example
where
we
have
travel
is
I've
had
the
opportunity
we
send
our
people
to
courses
in
in
Osgood
professional
development
out
of
Toronto.
They
do
a
very
robust
almonds
program
and
also
some
fairness
issues.
A
very
good
school
I've
had
the
opportunity
to
take
training
with
them
pre-pandemic
and
then
also
during
pandemic,
and
it's
hard
to
sit
three
four
days
in
front
of
a
screen
listening
to
presenters,
who
are
also
in
front
of
a
screen
and
to
stay
engaged.
W
Y
Sure
so,
actually
we're
right
back
at
the
pre-pandemic
level.
Now
our
travel
prior
to
the
pandemic
was
our
budget
was
around
60
60
000
usually-
and
there
were
a
few
years,
maybe
four
or
five
years
ago,
where
we
spent
71
072
this
year.
As
Peter
says,
we,
when
we
have
new
staff,
they've
gone
off
to
the
Ombudsman,
so
we're
put
to
the
ombuds
course
so
we're
we're
predicting
that
again
will
be
at
sixty
four
thousand
dollars.
So
it's
we're
back
to
prevent
pandemic
budget.
Now.
Q
No
I
think
that
that
good
I
mean
it's
it's
something
everybody's
wrestling
with
I
do
think
there
are
sometimes
advantages
to
online
meetings,
but
I
totally
get
it
that
It's
Not,
the
Only
Solution.
B
W
You
the
office
for
the
public
interest,
commissioner,
is
entering
its
ninth
year
of
operation
and
it
continues
to
focus
on
fostering
a
public
sector
culture
where
wrongdoings
are
confidently
reported
without
fear
of
reprisal.
Fair,
independent
and
partial
investigations
are
completed
and
appropriate
management
responses
are
undertaken
when
wrongdoing
is
found.
W
The
public
interest,
disclosure
oversight
and
statutory
whistleblower
protection
is
relatively
new
when
compared
with
other
legislative
offices.
Consequently,
investigational
practices
continue
to
evolve,
but
I'm,
confident
that
the
office
of
Alberta's
public
insurance,
commissioner,
is
at
the
Forefront,
and
this
was
demonstrated
recently
at
a
conference
in
Vancouver,
where
we
were
asked
to
present
at
two
sessions,
and
it
was
very
positively
received
by
the
conference
organizers
I'd
like
to
spend
the
time
available
to
provide
the
committee
with
an
overview
of
some
of
the
work
completed
in
the
last
year.
W
W
While
our
website
contains
a
significant
amount
of
information
on
the
legislation
and
related
processes,
many
individuals
still
prefer
one-on-one
conversation
with
one
of
our
investigators
to
get
clarification
on
whether
our
office
is
the
right
place
to
advance
or
complaint
what
they
can
expect
and
if
they
are
protected,
if
they
make
a
disclosure
when
public
sector
employees
believe
they've,
witnessed
a
wrongdoing
or
been
subject
of
reprisal,
they
have
the
right
to
make
a
disclosure
to
the
public
interest.
Commissioner,
this
can
be
done
through
our
secure
online
reporting
portal
by
email
or
through
regular
email.
W
W
The
spike
in
2018-19,
which
is
highlighted
in
green
on
the
slide,
can
be
attributed
to
when
the
ACT
came
into
force
that
year,
which
impacted
existing
entities
and
slightly
expanded
our
jurisdiction,
so
that
resulted
in
more
inquiries.
People
looking
for
information
changes
in
policy
asking
questions
about
the
ACT
asking
for
presentations.
W
The
result
was
that,
after
an
increase
in
those
inquiries,
it
normalized
in
following
years,
but
what
I'd
like
to
point
out
is:
it
should
be
noted
that
we've
seen
an
increase
in
investigations
over
the
last
two
years
and
that
continues
excuse
me.
W
Similar
to
the
ombudsman,
investigators
in
the
office
of
the
public
interest,
commissioner,
have
encountered
a
increased
level
of
complexity
in
their
investigation.
So
on
this
side,
what
we
see
is
the
factors
include
volume
of
documents
that
are
being
reviewed,
the
technical
nature
of
alleged
wrongdoing
and
the
numbers
or
interviews
required.
So,
for
example,
one
investigation
that
was
completed
last
year
required
over
40
individuals
to
be
interviewed
through
all
these
interviews
of
themselves
can
be
lengthy.
The
time
it
takes
to
analyze
the
content,
assess
the
relevance
determine
if
the
evidence
provided
in
the
statement
corroborates.
W
Other
statements
from
other
Witnesses
or
documentary
evidence
takes
much
more
time.
Another
example
of
increased
complexity
is
noted
in
the
case,
in
a
case
where
the
respondent,
in
replying
to
our
investigational
summary,
submitted
a
written
response
of
194
Pages,
along
with
1500
pages
of
supporting
documentations
a
documentation
plus
video
and
photographic
evidence.
W
So
once
we
have
a
disclosure,
we
review
that
disclosure
and
it's
necessary
to
assess
if
our
legislation
is
the
most
appropriate
mechanism
to
address
that
complaint,
and
this
will
determine
also
include
determination
on
whether
there
is
a
public
interest
component
to
that
complaint.
Sometimes
we
receive
complaints
and
they
could
be
more
properly
addressed
through
what
about
the
other
legislative
offices,
and
we
will
make
referrals
sometimes
to
privacy.
Excuse
me
sometimes
to
the
ethics
commissioner.
W
W
We
said
we
had
an
example
where
it
took
several
months
to
determine
if
the
complaint
met.
The
legislation
require
legislative
requirements
of
the
ACT,
so
it
was
a
very
complex
file.
The
investigator
had
to
research
legislation,
regulations,
handbooks
contracts
and
other
documentation
provided
by
both
the
complainant
and
the
witnesses,
and
it
was
also
necessary
to
seek
a
legal
opinion
in
to
assist
in
determining
whether
or
not
the
interpretation
of
case
law
was
factually
correct.
W
Finally,
the
investigator
gathered
the
information
and
was
able,
from
all
the
entities
involved,
Consolidated
her
findings
into
an
analytical
product
and
confirm
that
our
investigators
had
the
legal
authority
to
undertake
the
investigation.
So
just
this
analytical
piece
alone
was
very
significant.
It
took
months.
W
If
we
determine
a
matter
requires
action
by
our
office.
We
will
consider
options
for
an
informal
resolution.
The
ACT
provides
a
commissioner
with
a
significant
amount
of
latitude
to
facilitate
a
resolution
of
a
disclosure.
This
annual
report.
This
year's
annual
report
details
one
such
case
where
our
office
was
able
to
collaboratively
work
with
an
entity
involved
so
that
going
forward
policies
and
procedures
were
put
in
place
to
ensure
resources
tools
and
space
within
a
publicly
owned
facility
were
no
longer
used
for
personal
projects
or
personal
benefit.
W
W
The
impact
of
increased
complexity
is
important,
because
Alberta's
whistleblower
legislation
is
the
only
public
interest.
Disclosure
act
in
Canada
with
prescribed
timelines
timeline
aligns
imposed
by
the
public
interest.
Disclosure
regulation
are
also
inclusive
of
Investigation
reporting
language
and
the
regulation
stipulates
the
procedures
for
disclosures
and
reprisals,
and
I
quote
shall
be,
shall
provide
timely
and
expeditious
management,
for
example,
acknowledgment
of
a
complaint
in
five
days
decision
on
whether
to
investigate
in
20
days
and
conclusion
of
an
investigation
in
120
days.
W
Although
the
acronyms
and
Commissioners
provide
an
extension
to
those
timelines
in
crafting
the
legislation,
the
members
of
the
assembly
specifically
included
timelines
to
ensure
that
the
serious
allegations
addressed
by
the
ACT
would
be
investigated
and
resolved
in
a
timely
manner.
Currently
it's
difficult
to
meet
those
timelines.
In
many
cases,
this
slide
shows
a
recent
review.
W
Recent
review
of
cases
completed
in
the
past
two
years
revealed
that
the
12
investigations
concluded
in
20
2020
to
2022
time
period.
Only
two
were
completed
within
the
120-day
time
limit
and
further.
At
the
same
time,
when
we
looked
at
11
active
investigations,
eight
had
exceeded
the
time
limit
and
required
extensions.
W
If
we
were
in
fact
to
meet
the
120
day
time
limit
this
chart
would
have
nothing
but
dark
a
dark
blue
bar
left
of
center.
The
light
blue
illustrates
the
proportion
of
cases
that
extend
beyond
the
prescribed
120
days
and
I
can
tell
you.
This
is
not
for
lack
of
effort
or
efficiency
on
part
of
our
investigators.
It's
the
complexity
of
the
investigations
in
combination
with
the
resources
available
that
contributes
to
the
timelines
that
extend
beyond
the
legislative
time
frames.
W
I
would
like
to
ask
the
Committees
members
to
note
that,
like
the
ombudsman,
the
previous
commissioner
over
the
years
has
adjusted
her
budget
and
corresponding
number
of
positions
with
her
office
according
to
the
needs
of
the
office
now
I'm
seeking
to
follow
a
similar
approach.
Where
we
ask
for
resources
when
we
need
them,
we
reduce
our
resources
when
the
situation
warrants
first
thing
I'll
be
asking
I'm
proposing
that
investigative
teams
be
supported
with
the
addition
of
an
analyst
position.
W
W
The
intake
and
Analysis
work
detracts
from
the
investigators
work
on
their
active
investigations
and
lessens
the
amount
of
time
remaining
to
conclude,
the
investigation
within
the
legislatively
stipulated
time
constraints
and
it
also
breaks
the
flow
when
an
investigator
is
required
to
disengage
from
an
investigation
to
focus
on
a
new
intake
and
then
after
some
time,
the
investigators
then
are
required
to
re-engage
and
refocus
where
they
left
off
on
their
investigation.
Several
days
ago,
the
proposed
analyst
position
would
be
solely
responsible
for
intake,
thereby
freeing
up
investigators
to
do
some
solely
investigative
work.
W
The
second
element
of
our
proposal
relates
to
Contract
Services.
There
are
three
factors
contributing
to
an
increase
in
this
year's
budget
line
for
Contract
Services.
First
public
interest
cases
often
require
specialized
expertise
in
order
to
advance
in
investigation
recently
some
of
our
investigations.
This
included
an
independent
medical
expert
and
forensic
data
recovery
specialists
based
on
our
current
cases
that
are
active.
We
foresee
the
need
for
specialized
technical
experts
to
be
contracted
in
the
upcoming
year.
W
Secondly,
the
use
of
qualified
contract
investigators
to
work
under
the
supervision
of
our
full-time
investigators
will
assist
in
adjusting
to
ebb
and
flow
of
case
volumes
and
create
a
pressure
valve
when
case
volumes
exceed
capacity
or
the
demand
for
more
or
there's
a
case
that
demands
more
urgent
attention.
This
will
assist
in
reducing
case
timelines
as
well
and
third.
Our
office
is
currently
undergoing
a
judicial
review
of
the
commissioner's
decision,
because
findings
of
wrongdoing
and
reprisal
can
have
serious
consequences.
W
W
Returning
to
our
complaint
management
process
after
an
investigation
report
is
finalized
and
the
decision
has
been
reached,
the
last
element
in
the
process
is
how
the
commissioner
will
exercise
their
discretion,
their
discretion
on
publicly
reporting.
On
a
case,
the
commissioner
May
release
a
public
report
when
it
is
in
the
interest
to
do
so
and
making
that
decision.
W
W
W
In
another
case,
the
CEO
and
president
of
a
publicly
funded
academic
Institution
was
found
to
have
committed
wrongdoing
through
gross
mismanagement
of
employees.
Our
investigation
found
long-standing
cultural
issues
existed
within
the
organization,
but
they
were
aggravated
by
interpersonal
conflicts
at
Senior
Management
level.
W
The
problems
were
perpetuated
when
the
president
and
CEO
asserted
Authority
through
aggressive
behaviors,
such
as
yelling
and
threatening
employment.
This
had
serious
consequences
on
the
workplace,
culture
for
the
employees
and,
following
our
investigation,
the
commission
of
a
five
record
date,
five
recommendations
aimed
at
reforming
the
culture
of
the
organization.
W
Before
our
before
concluding
I'd
like
to
reinforce
the
importance
of
ensuring
our
governing
legislation
is
meeting
the
needs
of
albertans.
A
comprehensive
of
the
ACT
must
be
done
every
five
years,
as
stipulated
in
the
legislation
and
the
standing
committee
on
Research
resource
stewardship,
completed
that
review
in
2021
and
made
10
recommendations.
W
We're
looking
forward
to
the
potential
changes
in
legislation
that
will
ensure
that
the
ACT
evolves
and
best
protects
those
who
come
forward
and
also
to
ensure
Alberta's
confidence
in
the
administration
of
public
entities
and
government
departments
is
maintained
and
with
that
I'll
turn
it
over
to
Greg.
To
present
our
business
plan
for
the
public
interest
commissioner's
office.
X
X
Our
second
outcome
was
to
ensure
designated
officers,
know
how
to
assess
and
investigate
disclosures
of
wrongdoing.
The
commissioner's
team
hosted
a
highly
successful
virtual
conference
for
over
55
designated
officers,
which
provided
education
on
these
functions,
as
well
as
other
topics
in
the
next
fiscal
year.
We
will
build
on
the
success
of
last
year's
conference
and,
while
also
developing
onboarding
training
and
resource
materials
for
designated
officers
outcome.
3
sought
to
enhance
the
collaborative
approach
we
take
with
the
public
entities
when
investigating
wrongdoings
and
implementing
recommendations.
X
75
percent
of
our
investigations
conducted
during
the
last
fiscal
year
were
assessed
as
collaborative
with
the
public
entity
outcome.
4
encompassed
the
commissioner's
participation
in
the
review
of
our
governing
legislation,
which
Peter
already
discussed
outcomes.
One
and
two
will
continue
into
the
next
fiscal
year
and
we
will
add
outcome.
Three
thorough
and
efficient
management
of
cases.
X
Alberta
is
the
sold
jurisdiction
in
Canada
with
legislative
timelines
for
investigations.
As
such
efficiency
is
key
for
us,
we
will
examine
the
efficiency
of
our
intake
and
Analysis
processes,
while
also
reviewing
our
our
overall
processes
for
further
efficiencies
into
investigations
of
allegations
of
wrongdoing
and
I
really
stumble
badly
on
that
lesson.
So
my
apology,
thank
you
for
your
time
over
to
Suzanne
for
the
budget.
Y
Thank
you
Greg.
So,
once
again,
my
presentation
will
be
very
brief.
As
the
public
interest
commissioner's
2020
324
budget
estimate
submission
reflects
the
support
for
our
budget
request,
as
articulated
in
Peter
and
Greg's
presentations
for
the
current
fiscal
year,
ending
March
31st
2023.
We
are
forecasting
an
8
or
101
thousand
dollar
budget
labs.
Y
The
public
interest
commissioner's
2023-24
budget
estimate
is
one
million
four
hundred
and
ten
thousand
dollars
representing
an
increase
of
15
percent
or
187
thousand
dollars
over
the
2022-23
budget.
This
increase
supports
a
new
analyst
position.
Salary
raises
is
authorized
by
the
public
service
commissioner,
contract
investigators
and
legal
services
related
to
just
to
judicial
reviews
and
a
return
to
pre-pandemic
travel
concessions.
Y
W
There
so
again,
I'd
like
to
thank
the
the
chairman
committee
members
for
the
your
time
and
consideration
of
the
information
we've
provided
and
at
this
time
we're
pleased
to
take
any
questions
you
may
have.
B
H
Thank
you
Mr
chair
and
thank
you
once
again,
Mr
surftan
for
your
swivel
in
your
chair
and
no
no
acting
as
a
I
probably
can
introduced.
Commissioner
I
have
similar
questions,
I
guess
to
what
I
had
when
you
were
speaking
as
the
Ombudsman,
and
that
is
that.
Do
you
expect
the
number
of
cases
that
are
increasing
complexity
received
by
your
office
to
continue?
Is
that
Trend
something
you
expect
to
continue,
and
are
you
anticipating
that
in
your
budget?
H
Ask
I,
would
imagine
so,
but
is
that
something
that
you
see
increasing
because
you
said
in
the
last
presentation
as
the
Ombudsman
that
you
couldn't
really
project
that
sales,
the.
W
Case
profitable
on
the
public
interest
side
to
say
that
I
foresee
that
that
would
project
moving
forward
the
complexity
of
cases,
I
think
comes
from
some
of
the
results
that
we've
had.
We
did
publicly
report,
as
in
the
annual
report
on
the
incident
that
happened
at
one
of
the
learning
institutions,
a
republican
reported
on
that
as
a
result
of
that
I
think,
we've
had
five
other
post-center
secondary
institution
related
complaints
over
the
last
18
months.
So
the
fact
that,
when
something
gets
out
there,
these
are
rather
small
communities
in
terms
of
senior
leadership.
W
So
the
the
word
exchanges
were
within
the
community
and
then
people
see
the
value
of
what
we
do
and
what
we
can,
how
we
can
delve
into
certain
situations.
So
that's
where
they
make
the
decision
to
become
a
whistleblower,
so
yeah
I
would
project
that
on
the
public
interest
side,
it's
easier
to
say
that
once
we've
established
a
reputation
and
people
are
saying
seeing
the
good
results
that
happen
that
results
in
additional
complaints
of
a
complex
nature.
W
So,
although
our
numbers
go
down
in
in
certain
ways
and
one
of
the
reasons
I
think
some
of
our
numbers
go
down
is
because
when
one
institution
sees
what's
happened
in
another
institution,
they
they
self-examine
and
they
say,
wow,
look
what
happened
at
that
college.
What's
our
process
is
how's
our
system?
Do
we
have
our
house
in
order?
W
We
don't
want
to
suffer
the
same
fate
that
was
exposed
publicly
by
the
public
interest
commissioner's
investigation,
so
that
has
an
effect
of
of
calibrating
other
institutions
in
similar
Fields
so
that
they
they
self-assess
so
numbers
go
down.
But
when
there's
still
issues
to
be
had
people
are
comfortable
coming
to
us,
knowing
that
we
can
do
a
thorough,
impartial.
H
H
W
Is
and
again
we're
trying
to
meet
those
timelines.
So
it's
not
only
is
the
complexity,
it's
the
the
timeline
issue
that
when
people
bring
something
to
us,
it's
because
it's
a
serious
concern.
You
know
as
a
whistleblower
they're
putting
themselves
out
there
and
a
lot
of
people
it's
it's.
It
can
be
nerve-wracking,
they're,
they're,
fearful
that
they
might
be
exposed.
W
We've
done
an
excellent
job
and
will
continue
in
protecting
the
identity
and
confidentiality
of
all
the
individuals
who
report
to
us,
but
at
the
same
time,
there's
still
that
that
weight
that
that
people
are
under
when
they've
made
a
complaint
to
see
if
the
situation
will
change.
So
we
want
to
have
those
done
in
a
timely
manner
right
now,
we're
unable
to
do
so.
So
that's
where
we're
looking
for
the
resources
to
bring
those
timelines
down.
W
As
I
said
in
my
presentation,
when
the
legislation
was
created,
the
only
place
in
Canada
is
Alberta
that
has
timelines
and
they're
put
there
for
a
purpose,
and
I
would
like
to
think
that
that
purpose
is
still
valid
and
we
need
to
be
able
to
meet
that
purpose
so
that
we
can
reduce
timelines.
So
people
aren't
held
in
limbo,
waiting
to
see
where
things
are
going
to
go.
W
Prince
Edward
Island
just
started
the
their
last
prophecy,
get
an
ombudsman
and
a
public
interest
that
the
equivalent
of
a
public
interest.
Commissioner
Prince
Edward,
Nova
Scotia
Newfoundland
Ontario,
has
an
Integrity
commissioner,
which
is
not
within
the
ombudsman's
office,
but
the
similar
function
to
separate
office.
It's
the
only
one
that
I
know
to
have
a
separate
office,
but
the
rest
of
them
are
all
it's
combined
within
the
two
offices
was
Alberta
the
lead
on
that.
W
We
only
got
our
legislation
in
2013
and
there
were
other
offices
Manitoba,
for
example,
established
before
that
British
Columbia
just
came
on
board
three
years
ago
and
to
have
a
public
interest
mandate
and
they're
combined
within
the
office
of
the
British
Columbia
almonds
person.
Thank
you,
sir.
Thank
you.
B
Thank
you.
I
said
it
was
going
to
be.
L
Q
Okay,
thank
you
different
Arena,
but
maybe
the
same
questions
different
contacts,
maybe
Alyssa's
different
answers,
I,
just
wonder
if
you
can
comment
on
on
which
jurisdictions
or
departments
raise
the
highest
number
of
complaints
to
you
and
then
and
then.
Secondly,
the
the
other
question
about
good
whistleblowers
versus
the
bad
faith
ones
and
and
how
much?
How
prevalent
is
that
and
how
do
you
handle
it?
Thank
you.
W
So,
in
terms
of
the
sectors
that
we
have
agencies
boards
and
commissions,
the
health
sector
was
the
number
one
area
that
we
had
complaints
in
the
last
year.
So
a
health
sector
again,
primarily
all
the
services
provided
through
Alberta
Health,
Services
agencies,
boards
and
commission,
as
well
as
Government
Ministries,
were
the
the
two
and
three
as
well.
So
that's
where
we
see
most
of
our
our
work
and
sorry.
Your
second
question.
Q
W
The
ACT
currently
says
that
they
have
to
be
made
in
good
faith.
That
was
one
of
the
things
that
we're
looking
at
when
we
had
stakeholder
meetings
regarding
what
changes
could
possibly
made
be
made
to
the
ACT
for
us.
W
It's
the
merits
of
the
complaint,
as
is
more
important
than
the
motivation,
so
you
could
have
bad
faith,
but
as
long
as
the
merits
are
there
and
what
I
mean
by
that,
so
your
reason
for
making
a
complaint
might
be
that
you
didn't
get
a
promotion
and
you're
very
upset
with
the
person
who
made
that
decision.
So
you
blow
the
whistle
on
something
that
they've
been
doing.
W
The
fact
that
your
faith
is
bad
doesn't
change
the
fact
that
if
that
person's
Behavior
does
it
wasn't
wrongdoing
gross
mismanagement,
if
it
was
the
breach
of
an
offense
or
anything
that
falls
with
under
the
what
that
finds
the
gross
mismanagement.
That
would
be
it
so
good
faith
bath
faith
will
take
it
all,
but
we're
looking
at
the
actual
merits
of
the
of
the
allegation.
B
Yes,
Mr
Hunter.
N
I
want
to
ask:
do
you
have
any
preference
if
the
office
of
Ombudsman
and
the
office
of
the
public
interest,
commissioner,
should
be
combined
like
other
provinces.
W
So
we
are
combined
in
the
sense
that
there
are
shared
services
where
it's
combined
and
the
ombud
has
been
for
the
last,
since
the
position
was
created
has
been
the
Ombudsman
and
the
public
interest,
commissioner,
under
two
separate
appointments,
so
there
is
the
savings
that
Suzanne
spoke
about
of
having
shared
services,
for
example,
our
I.T
is
coordinated
our
human
resources
coordinated
through
one
one,
one
office.
W
If
the
offices
were
separated,
you
would
have
to
have
another
I.T
department
and
another
HR
department,
so
there
would
be
significant
administrator,
but
we
do
keep
a
clear
delineation
between
the
the
two
and
the
acts
are
separate.
The
investigation,
the
investigators
are
separate.
Our
records
management
system,
our
case
management
system
is
separate,
so
an
ombudsman
investigator
will
not
be
looking
at
pick.
Files
does
not
have
the
ability
to
pick
public
interest.
Commissioner
public
interest,
commissioner
files
are
not
accessible.
Vice
versa,
should
they
be
accessible.
W
There's
cost
Savings
in
having
the
offices
together
having
the
offices
separate.
If
we
were
to
see
an
enlargement
in
jurisdiction.
Excuse
me
I
know
the
the
recommendations
made
by
the
standing
committee
on
resource
stewardship
when
they
reviewed
the
ACT.
There
were
several
recommendations
that
would
enlarge
the
jurisdiction
if
the
office
was
to
grow.
It
might
come
to
a
point
where
the
commissioner
would
have
to
have
totally
separate
responsibilities
because
he
or
she
would
be
responsible
for
many
more
investigations.
W
So,
for
example,
all
regulated
members
under
the
College
of
Physicians
and
surgeons
was
one
of
the
recommendations
that
they
fall
under
the
public
interest.
Disclosure
act
funded
certain
Health,
Care
homes,
lodges
Etc
that
were
funded
in
certain
ways
by
the
government.
Child
Care
Facilities
as
well
would
all
fall
under
if
those
recommendations
do
become
legislation
at
certain
point.
So
if
that
jurisdiction
was
to
expand
at
that
point,
I
think
the
legislature
would
have
to
consider
whether
or
not
it's
appropriate
to
split
completely
at
that
time.
P
B
Well,
thank
you
Mr
sherston,
for
your
time
today
and
for
your
services
as
acting
Ombudsman
enacting
public
interest.
Commissioner
I
suspect
that
you've
been
filling
those
shoes
for
longer
than
you
expected
or
or
necessarily
wanted,
but
for
your
information
it
is
anticipated
that
the
committee's
decision
on
the
officer's
budgets
will
be
sent
to
you
in
writing
early
next
week.
So
we
give
you
thanks
for
your
time
and
for
your
service
and
as
scheduled,
we
will
now
break
for
lunch.
We
will
be
back
on
the
record,
along
with
representatives
from
elections
Alberta
promptly
at
1
pm.
B
B
B
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
O
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
B
B
B
B
B
C
Mla
Glenn
Van
Dyke
and
at
the
basketball
here
at
Westlock.
B
B
AA
AA
AA
AA
Turning
to
slide
five
we're
highlighting
a
few
of
our
financial
compliance
success
stories,
the
graph
on
the
left
shows
the
number
of
over
contributions
we
identified
in
the
last
three
years.
In
all
years,
we
resolved
cases
in
a
timely
manner
before
tax
receipts
were
issued,
eliminating
all
referrals
for
investigation
the
table
on
the
right
breaks
down
the
number
of
political
participants
that
were
required
to
file
2021
on
an
annual
financial
statements.
AA
AA
The
development
of
our
online
Financial
system
has
transformed
how
political
participants
report
their
financial
activities,
in
addition
to
streamlining
our
compliance
and
review
processes.
In
this
last
year,
we
expanded
the
system's
functionality
by
adding
additional
financial
statement
modules.
The
listed
participants
on
the
slide
are
now
able
to
enter
and
submit
their
financial
statements
electronically.
AA
AA
AA
AA
The
433
concluded
investigations
can
be
broken
down
into
complaint
types.
Some
investigations
involve
multiple
allegations
and
fall
into
more
than
one
category.
As
previously
stated,
the
bulk
of
the
new
complaints
received
were
related
to
the
local
Authority's
election
Act
of
the
284
that
were
received
under
that
act,
253
have
been
concluded.
AA
AA
This
graph
illustrates
the
disposition
of
the
186
investigations
concluded.
There
were
four
files
that
resulted
in
17
administrative
penalties.
We
had
three
files
that
resulted
in
the
issues
issuance
of
reprimands
and
there
were
two
compliance
agreements
also
issued
all
of
the
findings
and
decisions
are
posted
on
our
website.
There
were
no
injunctions
or
prosecutions.
AA
As
a
result
of
Bill
81.
We
now
have
a
fixed
election
date,
which
has
allowed
the
returning
officers
to
make
early
arrangements
for
voting
places
and
engaging
with
their
communities.
This
graphic
highlights
some
of
the
activities
that
returning
officers
are
currently
engaged
in
to
prepare
for
the
election.
AA
AA
My
office
had
also
reached
out
to
all
school
boards
after
the
passing
of
Bill
81.
in
the
legislature,
seeking
a
non-instructional
day
on
May
29th,
as
schools
provide
convenient,
accessible
facilities
and
electors,
local
communities
close
to
their
home
six
school
boards
chose
to
provide
a
non-instructural
day,
including
both
the
Calgary
border
education
and
the
Calgary
Catholic
School
Board,
and
as
an
example
in
Calgary.
This
will
provide
improved
access
to
over
200
schools.
AA
In
preparation
for
the
31st
provincial
general
election,
my
office
will
be
undertaken
at
large
registered
to
vote
campaign
in
April
2023..
This
is
primarily
a
male
based
enumeration
with
every
address
receiving
an
enumeration
package
in
past
enumerations.
We
have
struggled
to
increase
participation
as
electors
believe
they're
already
registered
and
which,
for
85
to
90
percent
of
albertans.
That
is
the
case.
AA
Our
mail
out
will
include
information
for
each
household,
with
the
names
of
the
people
registered
at
that
address.
This
way
electors
do
not
have
to
assume
if
their
information
is
correct,
they
can
verify
their
information
with
the
mail
out.
Any
updates
can
then
be
made
online
or
through
a
provincial
call
center.
AA
AA
AA
This
would
create
a
significant
barrier
for
these
electors,
so
we'll
be
allowing
the
use
of
that
ID.
If
the
voting
record
for
that
elector
includes
both
the
mailing
address
and
the
physical
address
associated
with
the
elector,
we
have
also
developed
a
declaration
process
for
electors
residing
on
the
First,
Nation
or
metis
settlement
to
provide
their
physical
address.
AA
AA
AA
AA
As
per
page
five
of
your
handout,
our
corporate
services
estimate
is
5959
000
and
is
a
net
increase
of
one
percent.
From
last
year,
Personnel
costs
increase
by
196
000,
due
to
the
in
range
and
cost
of
living
adjustment
for
our
non-union
staff
as
specified
by
the
public
service.
Commissioner,
an
increase
of
254
000
has
been
made
in
supplies
and
services
impacted
mainly
by
software
licensing,
renewals
and
upgrades.
AA
Other
increases
were
due
to
our
I.T
infrastructure
maintenance
costs,
including
desktop
support
and
hosting
of
our
servers,
and
we
have
reduced
our
Capital
development
budget
by
375
thousand
dollars,
reflective
of
the
work
completed.
Building
the
online
Financial
system
for
the
political
entities.
The
corporate
service
budget
has
a
net
increase
of
seventy
five
thousand
dollars.
AA
Turning
to
page
seven
of
the
estimates,
our
total
elections
budget
is
33
million
two
hundred
and
twenty
two
thousand.
This
includes
32
million
for
the
general
election
820
000
for
two
by-elections
and
430
000
for
Capital
development
related
to
a
continued
enhancements
of
our
election
management
system.
AA
Forty
percent
of
the
total
costs
are
the
fees
and
employer
contributions
for
election
officers
from
the
staff
in
the
returning
office
to
the
approximately
twenty
thousand
people
that
work
at
Advanced,
Mobile
and
election
day
voting
places
other
significant
cost
drivers,
our
rentals
at
15
percent,
which
includes
93
returning
offices,
training
spaces
and
voting
Place,
Rentals
Freight
and
postage
accounts
for
11,
which
includes
delivery
of
election
supplies
to
the
returning
offices,
mail
out
of
our
where
to
vote
cards
and
specif
and
special
ballot.
Mailings
advertising
comes
up.
AA
AA
Additionally,
our
election
budget
reflects
several
new
initiatives
and
modernizations
to
improve
our
services
to
electors.
These
include
the
expansion
of
advanced
voting
in
both
locations
and
Staffing.
With
the
popularity
of
the
vote
anywhere
service
in
2019.
We
are
anticipating
higher
volumes
in
interest.
In
this
voting
option,
we
intend
to
maintain
the
number
of
voting
locations
that
are
used
on
Election
Day
to
continue
to
provide
convenient
local
convenient
election
day
options
for
electors
combined
with
a
new
Staffing
model
intended
to
improve
the
voter
experience,
particularly
for
electors
that
need
to
register
prior
to
voting.
AA
Turning
to
page
10
of
the
handle
to
our
budget
request
for
enumerations
is
2.
320
000.,
as
mentioned
previously,
we'll
be
completing
a
mail-based
enumeration
in
April
23.
major
costs
include
printing
services,
as
well
as
Freight
and
postage
for
the
enumeration
mailers
advertising
for
the
online
and
radio
campaigns
and
Personnel
for
the
data
entry
and
call
center
staff.
AA
AA
Lastly,
on
page
16
of
the
hanold
we
have
our
budget
for
compliance
and
enforcement
and
you'll
see
our
budget
requests
for
this
program
is
695
thousand
dollars.
This
is
an
increase
of
57
000
from
last
year.
This
increases
to
provide
additional
capacity
related
to
the
additional
hours
needed
for
contracted
investigators,
handling
complaints
and
investigation
files
during
the
23
provincial
general
election.
AA
To
summarize,
our
total
budget
estimate
for
2023-24
fiscal
year
for
elections,
Alberta
is
42
million,
397
thousand
dollars
Mr
chair
that
ends.
My
presentation
we'd
be
pleased
to
respond
to
any
questions
that
you
need.
I
Thank
you.
Thank
you,
Mr
Graf,
thank
you
for
to
all
the
staff
that
are
joining
you
here
today
appreciate
you
being
here
on
page
two
of
your
budget
submission
you
note
the
increase
of
seven
ftes
for
the
delivery
of
the
provincial
election,
wondering
how
does
this
compare
to
the
FTE
increases
for
the
last
provincial
election.
AA
They're,
probably
similar
the
increases
themselves
when
we
look
at
warehouse,
staffing,
there's
three
additional
ftas
for
warehousing
alone
and
that's
consistent
with
the
previous
election.
Just
the
volume
of
of
materials
that
we
put
through
I
think
we
have
over
700
pallets
that
we
assemble
and
deliver
to
election
offices
throughout
the
province.
So
there's
a
significant
amount.
It's
still
a
paper
process,
so
there's
significant
paper
and
equipment.
AA
We
also
have
two
staff
in
GIS,
and
so
that's
the
mapping
products
mainly
and
what
we're
dealing
with
there
and
so
they're
significant
about
mapping,
whether
it's
for
parties
candidates,
but
also
in
the
voting
places
itself
so
like
when
you
look
at
the
three
warehouse
staffing
that'll
be
for
the
the
year
in
in
under
review
to
this
today,
after
which,
though
those
will
be,
let
go
so
they
are
temporary
staffing.
AA
AA
That's
five,
the
other
two
one
of
them
dealing
with
special
ballots
call
center.
So
they're
going
to
be
coordinating
those
functions
and
again
and
data
entry
after
the
event,
as
far
as
all
the
changes
and
those
will,
that
will
also
cease.
After
that
work
is
completed.
I
If
I
may
continue
so
as
you've
described,
you're
coming
in
significantly
under
budget
for
2022
2023
from
what
I
can
tell
it's
27
million,
which
is
59
percent.
I
So
at
last
year's
meeting
you
were
expecting
a
combined
cost
of
2020-23,
with
23
24
of
over
83
million
to
account
for
the
upcoming
provincial
election,
and
yet
now
that
is
coming
in
at
approximately
60
million.
So
from
what
I
can
tell.
This
is
a
decrease
of
20
million,
more
than
25
percent,
and
so,
despite
the
increased
cost
for
salaries
for
public
service
workers
and
living
in
time
of
an
increased
costs,
I'm
just
wondering
if
you
can
just
shed
a
little
bit
more
light.
I'll
put
I'll
say
that
on
the
discrepancy
well,.
AA
The
bulk
really
the
only
area,
Corporate
Services,
is
really
the
the
one
that
is
comparable
year
to
year
and
you'll
see
those
increases
a
little
tighter
as
far
as
year-to-ear
activities,
the
other
activities-
Corporate
Services,
okay,
yeah.
So
that's
that's
the
main
permanent
FTS
within
the
office,
maintenance
of
a
register
of
electors,
the
I.T
infrastructure
that
all
falls
under
corporate
services.
AA
Everything
else
is
fluctuates
depending
on
the
Electoral
events
that
occur,
and
we
do
have
multiple
years
in
which
we
budget
election.
We
don't
know
when
the
election
is
going
to
be
called,
although
we
have
the
fixed
date.
There
is
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
discussion
earlier
that
it
could
have
been
an
earlier
call
on
the
election
this
year.
So
we
have
to
be
prepared,
it
isn't.
An
election
can
always
be
called
earlier.
So
we
have
those
activities
in
preparation
undergoing.
AA
AA
We
have
issues
as
far
as
supply
chain
and
when
we're
receiving
supplies.
That
has
been
continuing.
We
also
have
election
campaigns
that
are
going
to
bridge
starting
in
March
and
April,
so
their
costs
over
multiple
fiscal
years,
but
our
budget
is
is
combined,
looking
at
the
33
million
and
say
the
election
component.
Only
so,
yes,
we
have
higher
numbers,
and
but
it
is
not
a
combined
budget
that
we're
looking
over
the
multiple
years.
Q
Yeah,
thank
you
very
much.
Thanks
for
the
work
you
do
I'm
going
to
begin
here
with
kind
of
a
I.
Don't
know
broad,
reaching
thought,
I
guess
I
I!
Just
wonder
if,
if
you
could
comment
on
what
I'm
going
to
call
the
behavior
of
albertans,
what
I
mean
by
that
is
I
mean
I
was
pleased
to
see
that
you've
identified
all
the
over
contributions
from
before.
Is
that
common
or
sort
of
average
for
a
year?
Q
Is
there
a
trend
happening
there
then,
in
terms
of
unauthorized
voting
you
know
is
anything
changing
there
and
I
guess
also.
Maybe
if
you
could
just
comment
to
the
same
subject,
is
there
any
possibility
we're
seeing
Macy
sort
of
a
U.S
style
mentality
approaching
where
everybody
on
every
side
wants
to
challenge
every
vote
and
and
and
fight
Ad
nauseam
after
the
fact,
the
vote's
been
counted
like
like
I,
haven't
sensed
that
here,
but
but
I.
Just
wonder
what
you're
seeing.
AA
So
several
questions
there.
Thank
you.
Let's
start
with
the
over
contributions
is
that
a
consistent
number
I
think
it
is
a
consistent
number
throughout
the
throughout
the
year
our
staff
have
worked
very
hard
and
been
very
successful
as
far
as
mediating
those
over
contributions
and
again,
you
have
to
understand
that
albertans
making
the
contributions
ultimately
they're
responsible
to
to
manage
their
contributions,
to
ensure
they're
within
the
legislative
mandates
and
the
political
parties
and
the
chief
of
financial
officers
have
a
role
to
play
in
managing
that.
AA
Having
said
that,
because
we
have
aggregate
contribution
limits,
they're
not
able
to
see
all
contributions,
so,
although
they
may
be
receiving
that
contribution,
they
didn't
know,
someone
may
have
already
maxed
out
the
contribution
to
a
different
party.
So
they
don't
see
that
and
that's
where
you
know
using
our
quarterly
reporting
process.
AA
It
was
very
successful
for
us
internally
to
manage
that
with
the
political
parties
in
mind,
we
contact
the
contributors.
We
contact
the
political
parties,
we
work
with
them
to
confirm
whether
it
is
the
same
person
or
not.
Some
there's
quite
a
few
people
in
the
province
with
the
same
names,
but
we're
able
to
correct
those
errors
before
they're
reported
on
an
annual
financial
statement,
so
we're
quite
successful
and-
and
everyone
works
with
us
and
we're
able
to
minimize
and
and
mitigate
those
over
contributions.
AA
So
it
is
going
to
change
this
time
because
consistency
associations
no
longer
are
required
to
report
quarterly.
So
we
won't
have
that
information
in
advance.
So
we're
going
to
be
watching
to
see
the
outcome
of
the
changes
in
the
legislation.
It
may
result
to
more
investigations,
because
now
we
can't
correct
the
errors
before
they're
reported
before
they're
claimed
on
Alberta
income
tax
Etc.
So
that's
something
that
we're
going
to
monitor
in
the
future
unauthorized
voting,
so
unauthorized
voting
includes
non-canadian
is
voting
underaged
or
voting
more
than
once.
AA
So
previously
we
would
have
minimal
knowledge
of
any
of
that
occurring
because
the
information
paper-based
there
was
no
tracking
or
or
Artificial
Intelligence
on
that
data
itself.
So
now
we
have
a
little
more
robust,
automated
systems.
Our
vote
anywhere
process
is
is
using
the
automated
pull
book.
Electronic
pull
book
and
our
paper
poll
book
on
Election
Day
now
has
barcodes,
and
so
everyone
who
votes
is
scanned
and
now
we're
able
to
do
data
matching
after
the
event.
So,
with
our
data
matching
processes,
that's
where
we
identified
was
it
about
80.
Z
The
total
number
that
occurred
in
relation
to
the
PGE
was
116.
We
cleared
80
investigations
in
this
reporting
period
and
just
for
additional
context
for
you
out
of
the
total
116
related
to
the
PGE,
we
identified
seven
actual
infractions.
So
when
you
consider
roughly
two
million
registered
voters
and
we
identified
primarily
internally
only
seven
infractions-
that's
it's
a
long
number,
but
I'll
give
it
to
you
anyway.
It's
point:
zero,
zero,
zero,
zero,
zero,
two
five
of
one
percent,
so
I
think
we're
we're
doing
pretty.
Well,
we
don't
have
it
perfect,
but
we're
working
towards
it.
AA
And
there
always
has
been
I
think
there
always
has
been
some
double
voting
and
you'll,
see
that
and
and
by
error
yeah
long-term
care
centers,
where
we
have
mobile
voting
locations
set
up
in
the
long-term
care
center,
where
the
residents
come
up
and
vote
and
sometimes
occasionally
a
family
member
will
take
one
of
their
parents
and
say:
let's
go
vote
at
the
regular
polling
place,
and
sometimes
that
occurs
and
there's
Confusion
by
the
resident
of
whether
they
did
or
didn't
vote
and
and
that's
you
know
not
knowingly
or
on
purpose,
did
they
do
that?
AA
AA
You
know
a
couple
situations
where
non-canadians,
so
permanent
residents
are
allowed
to
vote
or
U.S
citizens
in
this
case
and
that
we
had
findings
in
administrative
penalties
on
that
when
looking
at
U.S
Style
Politics
the
challenging
a
little
more
litigious
in
that
sense
I,
don't
we
haven't
really
seen
that
there
is
more
heightened
involvement
by
the
public.
I
would
say
whether
the
numbers
are
significant,
I'm,
not
sure.
But
there
is
you
know
we're
aware
of
it.
AA
We're
we're
monitoring
that
there
is
discussions
across
the
country
with
other
electoral
agencies
to
monitor
such
activities,
and-
and
we
have
discussions
on
that-
but
I-
don't
think
it's
something.
That's
very
significant
in
Alberta.
Q
Well,
I
I
appreciate
that,
because
I
think,
if
I'm
hearing
you
correctly
you're
saying
you
have
considerable
confidence
in
in
an
election
when
it
happens
in
Alberta,
there's
not
sort
of
some
Mass
issue
of
Fraud
and
and
I
think
that's
important
for
good
Civic
government
and
somehow
for
albertans
to
understand
it
and
to
be
able
to
be
at
peace
and
have
confidence
in
what
happens
here
in
a
vote.
I
think
is
extremely
important.
So
I
appreciate
your
comments
on
that.
Thank
you.
B
Finish
Mr:
are
you
finished
Mr
I'm
just
going
to
interject
here
and
allow
Mr
tour
to
introduce
himself
since
he
wasn't
able
to
do
so
at
the
beginning
of
the
meeting,
Mr
tour.
L
Well,
thank
you
good
afternoon,
Mr
Wrestling
good
to
see
you
so
I
was
just
wondering.
I
wanted
to
follow
up.
I
guess
on
some
of
the
questions
that
that
my
colleague,
Mr
Loyola,
had
asked
so
again
talking
about
your
your
budget
there.
So
it's
coming
in
significantly
under
budget
this
year.
So
you
mentioned
some
of
that.
L
You
talked
about
Corporate
Services,
then
you
said
in
general,
just
different
pieces
can
shift
and
change
quite
a
bit
from
year
to
year,
but
I
I
didn't
really
hear
a
clear,
I
guess
breakdown
of
how
area
each
area
shifted
over
this
year.
Could
you
perhaps
just
clarify
for
us
each
area
that
you
have
there
so
around
corporate
enumeration,
the
compliance
and
enforcement
which
of
those
areas,
I
guess,
ended
up
having
less
spending
this
year
and
give
us
a
quick
synopsis
on
why.
AA
Obviously,
as
a
result
of
the
pandemic,
our
travel
budget
was
significantly
lower
our
professional
and
development.
As
far
as
training.
Some
of
that
training
has
gone
virtual,
so
we've
capitalized
on
that
and
and
that's
a
lower
costs
in
comparison
to
traveling
across
Canada
for
certain
training
sessions
we
have
established
nationally
a
Canadian
training.
AA
What
do
you
want
to
call
it
Secretariat
in
which
electoral
courses
are
offered
and
usually
they're
whole
held
alternate
between
Western
and
Eastern
Canada
in
which
staff
are
are
sent
to
and
a
lot
of
those
have
been
done,
virtual
and
we're
looking
now
now
that
the
travel
is
relaxed
and
we're
going
to
continue
in
some
of
those
in
Virtual
and
some
will
be
in
person,
so
there
is
going
to
be
a
blended
version
on
that,
otherwise
Contract
Services
within
Corporate
Services.
AA
There
would
have
been
some
reductions
costs
as
far
as
legal
fees,
because
courts
there
was
delays
with
the
courts.
AA
We
have
reduced
costs
in
that,
but
otherwise
we're
looking
at
higher
costs
when
we
look
at
renewals,
so
renewals
as
far
as
software
technology,
anything
with
technology
has
also
increased,
but
overall
that
budget
is
fairly
close
to
what
we're
targeting
elections
like
most
of
Elections,
we
budget
for
the
two
by-elections
we
had
to
buy
elections
this
well
actually
one
only
this
year
and
the
current
year,
one
was
in
March
would
have
been
the
priority
prior
year,
but
we
do
budget
for
two
by-elections
annually.
AA
So
if
only
if
zero
one
or
two
whatever
the
number
is,
if
it's
no
by-elections
it's
unexpended
for
the
election
itself,
most
of
those
funds
would
be
unexpended.
In
the
current
here
we
have
costs
our
hiring
process,
we've
hired
all
our
returning
officers
and
election
clerks.
We
had
a
slight
delay
in
that,
so
there's
some
cost
Savings
in
that,
but
all
of
those
have
been
hired.
We've
performed
a
map
and
list
review
process.
AA
A
lot
of
our
training,
which
would
have
been
in
person,
did
not
occur
in
person
and,
as
a
result,
there's
cost
savings
there,
but
the
pre-election
activities
are
in
full
swing
right
now.
So
most
of
those
activities
and
a
lot
of
the
interaction
we're
having
with
the
returning
officers
right
now
is
virtual.
AA
Nothing
other
electoral
bids,
nothing
and
compliance
and
enforcement
is
close
to
budget
some
savings
as
far
as
investigator
costs
and
legal
fees.
L
Thank
you,
Mr
residence
I
appreciate
that
breakdown,
so
so
you're
saying
compliance
and
enforcement
largely
held
to
where
you
expected
some
changes.
There,
then,
due
to
Virtual
and
other
things
so
looking
at
the
corporate,
then
you
are
asking
for
a
increase
this
year.
A
small
increase,
but
you
I
guess
is-
is
that
just
due
to
some
of
these
things,
shifting
returning
back
to
in-person
training
and
More
Travel
again.
AA
A
little
bit
most
most
of
it
is
the
cost
of
living
Merit
increases
as
authorized
by
the
public
service.
Commissioner,
that's
the
biggest
one
and
the
other
is
licensing
costs.
When
we
look
at
renewals
and
some
of
her
license
where
we
would
have
had
multi-year
licenses
like
three
years
for
an
adobe
licensed
now
we're
at
the
three-year
point
or
fourth
year
in
which
they
need
to
be
renewed.
AA
Q
Yeah
thank
you
budget.
Now,
looking
at
the
elections
page,
we
have
the
2324
estimates
for
which
includes
a
general
election,
but
but
what
I
I'm
interested
in
hearing
from
you
is
the
last
general
election
was
2019.
We
don't
have
any
figures
on
that.
How
would
you
generally
at
least
characterize
where
your
costs
are
coming
in
from
2019
to
from
the
last
general
election
to
the
upcoming
general
election
and
and
are
there
any
significant
changes
from
from
your
point
of
view
as
a
department
in
order
to
manage
those
two
different
events.
AA
There's
always
going
to
be
increases
between
events
when
you're
looking
at
four
years
following
another
event,
yeah
so
yeah
as
an
ex
for
the
2019
general
election.
Our
election
budget
was
28
million,
541
000.,
so
that's
an
increase
of
approximately
let's
say:
4
million
four
million
dollars.
We
know.
AA
There's
inflation
increases,
we
have
population
increase
of
over
four
percent
and
and
a
lot
of
what
we
do
is
population
driven,
so
every
approximately
650
electors
you're
going
to
have
another
voting
area
you're
going
to
have
to
have
more
stations,
more
staff,
Etc
significant
increases
when
we
look
at
paper
products
we're
very
paper
driven,
there's
supply
issues
when
we're
looking
at
envelopes
paper
products
when
we
do
a
mail
out
we're
mailing
to
2
million
addresses,
so
the
cost
of
postage
increases
I
think
that's
approximately
nine
percent
also,
and
even
when
we
look
at
our
contracts,
we
usually
contract
for
multiple
elections.
AA
So
we
have
that
content.
Continuity
example
with
Canada
Post.
We
had
a
very
favorable
contract
that
came
up
for
Renewal
this
year
and
probably
increased
about
40
percent,
so
significant
hit.
But
there
is
no
other.
You
know.
Competition
doesn't
necessarily
exist
for
what
we
require,
so
there
are
certain
things
in
which
you
know
we.
We
have
to
pay
the
price,
but
it's
something
that
we're
always.
You
know
we,
we
tender
everything
and
with
effects
fixed
selection
dates
that
provides
us
added
capacity
in
which
we
can
tender
certain
things.
AA
Sometimes,
if
it's
an
early
election
call
we're
kind
of
at
the
mercy
of
the
vendors
a
little
bit.
So
this
provides
us
added
added
opportunity
to
it
tender
and
ensure
that
we're
getting
good
value
for
a
dollar.
AA
There
would
be
cost
savings
when
we
look
at
Cost
savings
and
balancing
off
there's
cost
savings.
When
we
we
look
at
the
change
in
legislation
in
which
the
voting
area
is
increased,
so
we're
actually
hot
having
to
staff
Less
on
Election
Day.
But
then
we
also
have
the
increase
at
Advance
voting
in
which
we
have
to
add
additional
resources.
So
it
kind
of
balances
itself
out,
there's
probably
a
slight
saving
overall,
but
there's
additional
costs
elsewhere.
As
a
result
of
that
anything.
AB
That's
significant,
so
we
have
seen
a
savings
on
how
we've
been
able
to
do
our
election
day
model,
which
we
think
is
actually
going
to
be
more
efficient
for
voters,
but
on
Advance
we
are
increasing
the
number
of
locations
the
size
of
the
locations
over
700
000
people
voted
in
advance,
we're
anticipating
more
so
we
want
to
make
sure
that
we're
ready
and
that
we
can
not
have
people
waiting
in
long
lines,
so
that
has
increased
some
costs
on
the
Staffing
side,
but
also
the
technology,
because
our
Advance
operates
using
the
laptops
and
the
printers
and
so
that's
increased.
AA
And
just
to
highlight,
we
do
work
nationally.
As
far
as
on
on
the
automation
side
of
things,
a
lot
of
our
equipment,
laptops
and
such
we
obtain
through
elections
Ontario,
because
they
have
quite
a
quite
a
bit
larger
as
far
as
capacity
and
so
we're
able
to
share
in
those
costs.
Out
of
that
substantial
discount.
B
Thank
you,
Mr
CeCe
I,
believe
you
have
some
questions.
K
Just
getting
there
Mr
chair
just
one
there
we
go
yes,
Mr
wrestler
and
others
just
around
the
enumeration
I'm
interested
in
that
whole
area
and
costs
and
Effectiveness.
When
was
the
last
time
there
was
an
in-person
enumeration
of
Voters
in
this
province.
AA
K
18.,
okay,
and
so
the
male
paste
was,
has
it
been
used
already
or
is
this
first
time.
AA
We
we
did
have
some
male
base
engagement
as
part
of
the
door-to-door
numeration,
so
we
had
it.
We
had
the
provincial
call
center,
we
have
the
door-to-door
enumeration
and
some
mail-based
communication.
So
all
three
components
were
used
in
2018.
K
So
going
forward
in
April,
2023
it'll
just
be
male,
based
as
if
I.
AA
Got
that
mail-based,
but
also
including
some
targeting
of
certain
areas
in
which
we
know
our
addressing
information
or
certain
information,
may
be
deficient.
Yeah.
K
Do
you
anticipate
a
big
difference
in
a
costs
or
expenditures,
one
to
the
other
yeah
yeah.
AA
It's
a
significant
saving,
I
think
the
last
enumeration
was
probably
13
just
over
13
million
dollars
and
this
time
we're
looking
at
2
million.
K
Okay,
so
the
quite
a
cost
savings.
The
timing
is
April
2023.
Do
you
know
when
in
April
you'll
be
doing
that.
AA
We
say
April,
it's
probably
going
to
start
about
March
27th
to
be
exact
but
yeah.
So
that'll
campaign
and
and
it'll
be
staggered
a
little
bit
because
with
the
kind
of
post
we
don't
have
all
the
meetings
drop
in
the
same
day.
But
so
then
our
call
center
can
manage
it,
but
it'll
commence
March
27th
and
really
continue
until
the
revision
period
closes
during
the
the
election
period.
But
the
campaign
will
concentrate
the
first
three
weeks.
K
AA
We're
hoping
the
public
will
engage,
especially
if
on
the
online
version
as
far
as
this
Health
registration
version
and
then
the
information
that's
that
would
entail,
is
their
data
entering
their
own
information
or
confirming
their
information
is
correct.
So
there's
a
cost
savings
there
and
hopefully
the
accuracy
of
the
information
increases
because
they're
typing
their
own
name,
they're
entering
their
own
birth
date.
That
type
of
information
so.
AA
AB
Sorry
I
just
wanted
to
add
so
in
2018,
when
we
did
the
door-to-door
enumeration,
we
send
out
an
unaddressed,
mailer,
and
so
people
didn't
know
what
information
we
actually
had
for
them.
So
a
lot
of
comments
we
heard
was
well
I'm
already
registered,
so
I
didn't
participate
in
that.
What
we're
hoping
to
accomplish
with
this
one
was
actually
including
their
information
in
the
mail
out
is
they'll
actually
be
able
to
see.
Oh
there's,
someone
on
my
you
know,
address
that.
AB
Doesn't
live
here
or
actually
not
registered
at
the
right
address
and
that
that
will
prompt
them
to
engage
I.
Think
just
a
different
type
of
enumeration
that
we're
hoping
will
get
more
participation
this
time.
But
you
know
I,
don't
think
one
type
of
enumeration
is
better
than
another.
It's
it's
just
something
different
with
the
timing.
We
have
right
now
right
before
the
election.
People
are
going
to
be
interested,
and
so
we're
really
hoping
that
this
type
of
enumeration,
it's
not
only
a
cost
savings
but
we'll
provide
some
value.
AA
And
have
more
current
information
in
that
sense,
where
previously
enumerations
are
held
the
year
prior
to
the
election
and
then
there's
activity
as
far
as
moves
and
and
whatnot
that
occurs
between
the
two
events
that
it's
already
outdated
by
the
time
the
election
comes
around,
so
it's
right
prior
and
they
also
have
to
take
an
effect.
Our
access
to
information
between
events.
AA
We
have
access
to
several
databases,
whether
it's
Motor
Vehicles
moves
ad
changes,
Alberta
Health
Care
changes
the
big
item
this
time
around
is
Alberta
education
in
which
we
have
access
to
16,
17
year
old
data
which
we
bring
into
the
register
and
when
they
turn
18
they're
on
the
list
of
electors.
So
we're
looking
at
bringing
on
35
000
new
voters
on
an
annual
basis
alone.
We
remove
probably
12
15
000
deceased
electors
on
annual
basis,
also.
K
The
last
last
question
I
just
wondered
if
and-
and
it
just
seems
like
it's
late
in
the
game,
if
there's
a
end
of
May
election
to
be
enumerating,
you
know
six
weeks
or
so
eight
weeks
before
before
the
election
I.
Just
just
maybe
talk
to
me
about
whether
that's
late
or
not
late
or
most
people
do
it
that
way
or
whatever
and.
AA
And
that's
probably
new
to
us
so
to
us.
It
does
seem
later
because
we're
used
to
doing
that
the
the
year
before
type
of
thing
or
several
months
before,
but
it's
pretty
standard
across
the
country,
if
there's
targeted
enumerations
that
occurs
right
prior
to
the
Electoral
event
itself.
So
this
isn't
anything
unusual
and
we're
able
to
incorporate
that
information
into
the
list
of
electors
and
then
that
those
changes
in
information
is
provided
to
as
you're
aware
to
the
parties
and
candidates
also.
B
H
Thank
you,
Mr
wrestler
and
the
company
I
have
a
question
that
I
think
will
be
your
germane
to
the
operation
of
all
parties
here
in
the
house
and
also
of
all
candidates
past
and
present
regarding
the
mechanics
of
entering
for
canvassing
purposes.
H
Multi-Unit
complexes,
I'm
talking
about
rental
complexes
and
Condominiums,
some
of
them
with
secure
access
and
I
note
that
the
city
of
evidence
has
some
more
detailed
rules
and
ranks
around
this.
The
guide
to
candidates
on
your
website,
sir,
suggests
that
a
candidate
upon
receipt
of
the
endorsement
can
canvas
in
multi-unit
dwelling
sites
in
their
electoral
Division
and
one
campaign
worker
can
be
accredited
to
accompany
them
when
canvassing.
H
So
it
says
it
can
happen,
but
it
doesn't
really
get
into
detail
about
how
and
I
know
that
members
from
all
parties
will
attest
to
the
fact
that
there
have
been
some
very
awkward
moments
from
candidates
when
canvassing
inside
and
outside
the
campaign
period
in
multi-unit
complexes,
where
somebody
can
test
their
ability
or
legal
right
to
be
there
and
you
get.
You
don't
want
to
get
into
an
argument
at
any
time
with
the
public
and
I
think
the
public
really
doesn't
have,
and
Quantum
property
managers,
as
well
as
renters
and
so
forth.
H
Like
you
to
comment
on
that,
would
you
have
a
possibility
of
promoting
that
the
ideas
and
and
I
know
there
may
be
some
deficiencies
in
the
legislation
where
you
would
think
you'd
like
to
perhaps
see
greater
access
for,
can
candidates
to
multi-unit
complexes
with
less
complexities?
Are
you
happy
with
the
legislation
now
or
would
you
suggest
recommendations
to
change
that
to
make
it
more
democratic.
AB
So
I
can
speak
to
what
we've
been
doing
and
what
we're
intending
to
do
so,
right
now,
as
part
of
the
pre-election
activities,
our
returning
officers
are
actually
trying
to
identify
contacts
for
the
multi-unit
dwellings.
One
of
the
biggest
challenges
in
communicating
with
them
is
knowing
who
owns
and
operates
that
building
and
having
contact
information.
So
we
are
working
on
building
our
contact
list
prior
to
the
election.
They
will
for
everyone.
AB
We
have
contact
information
for
receive
a
letter
to
let
them
know
as
to
what
are
the
requirements,
the
fact
of
how
that
kind
of
access
works.
We
show
them
a
picture
of
the
badge
so
they're
familiar
with
what
that
process
looks
like.
We
also
provide
letters
to
all
of
the
police
services,
so
that
they're
also
aware
of
the
legislated
requirements,
because
they'll
be
the
ones
most
likely
to
receive
the
calls
before
we
do.
We
also
during
the
election
itself
support
candidates
where
they
are
having
access
issues.
AB
We
did
have
this
in
the
by-election
that
just
occurred.
If
you
go
to
the
returning
office
they'll,
let
us
know
and
we'll
reach
out.
If
we
can
get
the
contact
information,
let
them
know
of
the
obligations
and
kind
of
support
that
access.
So
those
are
kind
of
the
pieces
we're
doing
to
support
access
in
the
upcoming
election.
But
Glenn
can
speak
to
the
other
pieces
and.
AA
We
know
it's
an
issue
and
always
has
been
an
issue
and,
and
most
times
I
think
it
is
educational
and
also
we
have
to
provide
that
communication
if,
if
it
becomes
an
issue
as
far
as
we
need
to
escalate
it,
we
do
escalate
it
as
far
as
within
the
compliance
area,
and
we
have
a
conversation
with
the
the
owner
or
the
manager
of
the
building
to
ensure
that
access
is
provided
to
the
candidates,
so
we'll
provide
them
an
educational
opportunity.
AA
If
we
want
to
call
it
that
so
yeah
we,
you
know
it
is
a
right,
as
far
as
the
public
to
active,
actively
engage
with
political
parties
and
their
candidates
and
and
that
opportunity
should
should
be
provided
to
them.
AA
When
we
look
at
the
deficiencies
in
the
legislation,
I
think
it's
difficult
a
lot.
You
know
you
have
the
educational
component
a
lot
of
the
times.
The
owners
of
the
buildings
aren't
even
local.
They
may
not
even
have
a
site
manager
on
site
which
limits
capacity
as
far
as
engaging
with
them.
Some
of
them
are,
you
know,
out
of
Province
or
out
of
country
as
far
as
the
ownership
itself,
so
it
can
be
difficult
at
times
to
find
who
exactly?
AA
You
know
whether
it's
as
a
supporter
or
not
but
have
contact
information
in
which
they
can
provide
to
us
in
which
we
can
engage
with,
and
that's
the
key
thing,
and
once
we
have
that
contact
I,
don't
think,
there's
been
an
issue
where
we
haven't
had
access.
We've.
Z
Had
it
within
a
day,
so
as
part
of
our
intake
process
for
a
complaint,
every
complaint
that
comes
in
goes
through
a
triosh
process.
It
goes
through
that
immediately
as
quickly
as
we
can
when
we
receive
it.
These
are
very
high
priority
issues
for
us
and
what
we
call
intermediate
action
items
so
as
soon
as
we're
hearing
that
that's
occurring
we're
going
to
engage,
we're
going
to
locate
a
contact
or
a
building
manager,
building
owner,
whoever
we
inform
them
about
the
legislation.
Z
We
make
sure
they
understand
that
they
are
required
to
permit
that
access,
and
if
we
have
trouble
contacting
someone
we
have
boots
on
the
ground
in
both
Calgary
and
Edmonton,
we'll
shoot
someone
out
to
a
location.
If
we
can't
contact
them
by
phone
or
email,
then
we'll
actually
shoot
a
body
out
to
the
location,
find
somebody
that
we
can
educate
and
ensure
that
that
access
occurs,
because
it
absolutely
is
a
right
for
anybody,
who's
who's
campaigning.
We
want
to
make
sure
they're,
not
disenfranchised.
H
Certainly,
on
the
issue
of
ascertaining
who
actually
is
the
contact
person
at
the
multiple
unit?
Building
might
I
take
the
liberty
of
suggesting
you
might
engage
the
11
000
members
of
the
Alberta
Real
Estate
Association
through
their
organization
too,
to
see
what
information
they
can
legally
provide
to
you
to
assist
in
that
matter,
and
Quest
I
mean
there's
thousands
of
real
estate
lawyers
as
well
that
I've
engaged
with
in
my
past
life,
who
might
be
good
sources
of
that,
if
indeed
they
are
able
to
to
pass
on
that
information.
AA
H
Secondly,
with
the
issue
of
political
signage
is
also
a
similar
type
of
issue
as
well.
We
have
owners,
particularly
in
a
condominium
situation
and
rentals,
who
fear
that
they
may
be
subject
to
the
wrath
of
their
their
property
manager
or
their
their
landlord
if
they
do
display
a
sign
even
under
inside
their
window,
and
that's
something
that
I
think
the
public
really
needs
to
be
clarified,
so
that
the
the
right
of
that
individual
to
express
their
their
their
voting
desire
is
is,
is
respected
and
not
abrogated
by
a
landlord's
decision
making.
L
L
If
I
understand
you
correctly,
Mr
wrestler,
you
said
that
you
Alexis
Alberta,
is
actively
compiling
a
list
of
building
managers
and
others
to
be
able
to
reach
out
and
communicate
with
and
educate
them
on
the
on
the
on
the
rights
of
of
candidates
and
how
that
works.
If
that
resource
exists-
and
you
have
those
lists-
is
that
possible
to
make
that
information
available
to
candidates,
because
I
can
say,
as
somebody
who
campaigns
in
an
area
with
a
very
high
density
of
apartments
and
condos,
that
can
be
one
of
the
most
time.
L
AA
Not
that
would
become
a
privacy
issue
as
far
as
the
information,
the
purpose
in
which
it
was
provided
to
us.
We'd
have
to
get
permissions
from
those
persons
in
order
to
share
that
information
right
now.
It's
just
stakeholder
engagement
to
locally
within
our
returning
offices,
in
which
they're
gathering
information
and
and
trying
to
use
it
as
a
educational
component
in
our
campaign.
L
I
understand
I,
appreciate
that
clarification,
I'll
just
one
other
question
and
sort
of
similarly
related.
You
talked
about
sort
of
changes
and
requirements
for
ID
or
that
there's
going
to
be
this
requirement.
Now
that
albertans
show
identification
with
name
and
current
address
again
I
know
in
an
area
like
mine,
we
can
have
some
very
high
turnover
and
a
lot
of
people
moving
in
and
out
of
the
area,
so
that
can
present
a
little
bit
of
a
barrier.
AA
The
campaign
itself,
as
far
as
the
householder
that's
going
to
be
mailed
during
the
enumeration
process,
which
is
is
beneficial
to
whether
it's
current
residents
or
new
residents
within
that
will
be
promoting
a
call
to
action
in
a
sense
as
far
as
being
registered
and
being
registered
in
the
correct
place
for
the
election
itself
will
be
part
of
that
campaign
and
advertising
campaign
itself.
AA
We
are
engaging
with
stakeholders
downtown
you
can
think
of
post-secondary.
Institutions
is
one
of
them
and
we're
partnering
with
the
post-secondary
institutions
and
the
student
associations.
As
far
as
distribution,
Distributing
information
on
the
electoral
process
and
timelines
be
an
election
in
later
May
that
student
body
may
or
may
not
exist,
but
at
least
we're
going
to
continue
to
try
to
get
the
information
out
to
the
students.
AA
There
is
usually
turnover
as
far
as
with
the
high
density
apartments
and
again,
our
returning
officers
are
working
with
the
the
areas
and,
if
there's
our
new
construction,
which
occurs
in
in
the
downtown
cores,
we're
also
going
to
be
targeting
those
areas
in
order
to
get
new
data
from
them.
B
We
have
reached
our
time
of
two
o'clock,
and
so
I
would
thank
you,
Mr
wrestler,
for
your
time
today
and
for
responding
to
our
questions
and
for
your
information.
It
is
anticipated
that
the
committee's
decision
on
the
officer's
budgets
will
be
sent
out
to
you
in
writing
early
next
week.
So
we
thank
you
for
your
time
and
for
all
of
your
efforts
on
our
behalf
as
a
province
and
we'll
get
back
in
touch
with
you
next
week.
Thank.
B
Just
for
the
committee's
sake,
we're
we've
got
the
office
of
the
auditor
general
coming
up
next.
B
Afternoon,
everybody,
our
final
presenters
of
the
day,
are
from
the
office
of
the
auditor
general
Mr
Wiley
and
his
colleagues
are
here
to
review
the
office's
annual
report
and
business
plan
in
the
2023-2024
budget.
Estimates
for
that
office
again,
I
will
ask
that
presentations
be
kept
to
20
minutes
in
order
to
leave
time
for
questions
from
the
committee
Mr
Wiley,
please
begin
when
you
are
ready
to
proceed
and
maybe
introduce
your
staff
with
you.
AC
AC
It's
my
honor
and
privilege
actually
to
be
here
representing
the
office
of
the
auditor
general
and
I
mean
that
sincerely
joining
me
for
the
presentation
today
are
two
members
of
my
leadership
team
at
the
table
and
that's
Lulu
ing
who's,
our
senior
financial
officer
and
Karen
zoltenko,
who
is
our
business
leader
of
our
audit
practice
I'd
also
like
to
recognize
my
assistant,
Auditors
General,
Eric,
leonty,
Patty,
Hayes,
Brad,
Ireland
and
Rob
Dreesen
3M.
Three
of
them
are
with
us
and
they're
in
the
gallery
today.
AC
So
chair
and
committee
members
in
advance
of
today,
you
should
have
received
a
results.
Report
for
the
year
ended
March,
31
2022
and
our
business
plan
and
budget
for
the
23-24
fiscal
I
know
you've
had
a
full
day
and
I
know
that
we
are
last
on
the
agenda.
So
I
will
try
and
be
brief,
but
I
would
like
to
get
to
all
of
the
documents
that
we
have
distributed
to
you.
So
so
I
see.
Thank
you
very
much.
AC
Never
so
I'll
be
referring
to
each
of
these
documents
throughout
the
presentation,
but
before
I
begin,
I
I
would
like
to
take
a
quick
look
back
in
time
and
that's
to
350
BC
yeah
that
isn't
a
typo.
It's
actually,
when
Aristotle
made
a
quote
and
and
I
want
to
repeat
that
today
he
said
when
offices
handle
public
money,
there
must
have
necessity,
be
another
office
that
examines
and
audits
that
audits
them,
and
it's
in
that
capacity.
AC
That
really
is
the
Genesis
for
our
for
our
office,
while
our
office
certainly
doesn't
date
back
to
350.
Bc
legislative
Auditors
have
played
a
significant
role
in
the
Westminister
parliamentary
system,
and
today
our
office
continues
to
play
an
important
role
in
the
democratic
system
in
which
we
operate.
The
work
of
our
office
provides
a
critical
Link
in
the
chain
of
public
accountability,
for
results
and
and
is
also
a
vital
Link
in
the
Democratic
process
of
responsible
government.
Our
office
was
established
when
Alberta
became
a
province
back
in
1905.
AC
and
as
I'm,
not
too
sure.
If
you're
aware
of
this,
but
I'll
take
just
a
couple
of
minutes,
the
origins
of
this
committee,
your
committee
dates
back
to
November
of
1977.
when
the
auditor
general
Act
was
adopted,
and
at
that
time
it
was
determined
that
there
was
a
need
for
a
mechanism
to
ensure
the
preservation
of
the
independence
of
the
auditor
general,
and
that
was
independence
from
government
itself.
And,
as
a
result,
the
select
standing
committee
on
the
office
of
the
auditor
general
was
created
eventually
over
the
years.
It
is.
AC
It's
evolved
to
a
current
form
where
it
represents
all
of
the
officers
of
the
assembly.
I
want
to
I
share
that
bit
of
history
to
highlight
the
significance
of
our
relationship
with
your
committee
and
the
role
that
you
play
in
ensuring
our
independence
as
we
carry
out
our
mandated
work.
AC
I'd
now
like
to
take
a
couple
of
minutes
to
highlight
the
work
of
our
office
during
the
past
year.
Like
many
other
organizations
across
Alberta
covid-19
continue
to
affect
our
operations.
In
the
21
fiscal
year,
our
staff
primarily
worked
remotely,
but
we're
on
site
at
audit
entities
whenever
it
was
possible
for
them
to
be
there.
AC
I
would
really
like
to
recognize
the
outstanding
efforts
of
all
of
my
staff
and
meeting
our
legislative
audit
responsibilities
during
these
unprecedented
challenges.
I'd
also
like
to
sincerely
thank
management
of
those
that
we
audit
for
their
continued
cooperation
as
we
conduct
our
work
members
page
seven
of
our
results
report
highlights
our
achievements
in
both
our
financial
statement
and
performance.
Audit
lines
of
business
of
note
is
the
completion
of
143
audit
reports
and
the
implementation
by
government
of
51
of
our
past
recommendations.
AC
Our
financial
statement,
audit
work
provides
albertans
with
independent
Assurance
on
the
accuracy
and
completeness
of
government
financial
reporting.
We
issued
115
financial
statement
audits,
including
our
unqualified,
or
a
clean
audit
opinion
on
the
Consolidated
financial
statements
of
the
province.
Our
remaining
financial
statement
audit
work
demonstrates
the
volume
and
diversity
of
the
provincial
agency's
boards
commissions
and
regulated
funds
that
we
also
audit
to
ensure
accountability
on
the
expenditure
of
public
resources.
AC
You
can
find
a
listing
of
all
of
those
that
we
audit,
starting
on
page
51
of
our
results.
Report
I
do
want
to
spend
a
couple
of
minutes
moving
to
our
performance
audit
work,
and
that's
often
referred
to
as
value
for
money
audits.
This
is
where
we
provide
albertans
with
assurance
that
government
programs
processes
and
services
are
working
as
well
as
they
could,
while
government
is
responsible
for
policy,
development
and
management
focuses
on
policy
execution.
Our
office
provides
decision
makers
and
mlas
with
findings
and
recommendations
to
improve
performance
and
promote
accountability
within
government.
AC
Our
performance
audit
work
covers
a
wide
range
of
topics
and
will
vary
in
breadth,
size
and
scope.
Depending
on
the
nature
of
the
audit.
This
year
we
issued
eight
reports,
ranging
in
topics
from
systems
to
manage
the
use
of
pesticides
to
managing
the
adult
criminal
prosecution.
Hearing
process
and
of
note
was
also
the
work
we
conducted
on
the
use
of
the
publicly
funded
CT
and
MRI
Services,
as
well
as
our
covid-19
work.
Both
of
those
areas
were
top
of
mind
for
albertans
our
use
of
publicly
funded
CT
and
MRI.
AC
Services
audit
examined
the
efficiency
and
effectiveness
of
significant
processes
included,
including
managing
wait
times.
We
also
completed
work
that
looked
at
the
government's
covid-19
response
from
a
financial
perspective
and
from
a
program
effectiveness
program,
Effectiveness
perspective.
Pardon
me.
We
conducted
separate
performance
audits
at
the
Departments
who
delivered
the
largest
covid-19
response
programs
during
the
two
fiscal
years,
21
and
22.,
and
we'll
be
publicly
reporting
on
three
of
those
performance
audits
very
shortly.
AC
One
of
the
most
impactful
results
of
our
work
is
when
the
recommendations
that
we
make
are
actually
acted
upon
and
implemented.
That's
when
the
chain
has
changed
has
occurred,
so
we
you
know,
we
often
say
that
the
value
of
our
work
and
the
benefit
to
albertans
is
not
fully
realized
until
our
recommendations
are
implemented,
and
that's
why
I
highlighted
the
51
earlier.
That
is
a
very
important
metric
for
our
office.
AC
AC
AC
It
is.
It
is
in
The,
Prudent
budget
that
reflects
the
current
environment
in
which
we
conduct
our
work,
an
environment
where
resources
are
scarce,
demand
is
high
and
indeed,
technology
is
Ever.
Changing,
as
previously
mentioned,
our
work
falls
into
two
main
areas:
financial
statement,
audit
work
and
performance
audits
and
we're
planning
to
issue
approximately
100
financial
statement,
opinions
on
reporting
of
both
the
financial
results
of
the
province
of
Alberta,
as
well
as
all
of
the
provincial
agencies,
the
boards
and
its
regulated
funds.
AC
There
have
been
significant
changes
in
accounting
and
auditing
standards
in
the
last
little
bit
and
in
addition
to
to
that,
we've
had
a
government
reorganization
of
Ministries.
These
will
impact
the
nature
and
extent
of
our
financial
statement.
Audit
work.
Notwithstanding
these
changes,
we
are
committed
to
continuing
to
work
with
those
that
we
audit
towards
meeting
the
agreed
upon
timelines.
AC
Since
2020
a
significant
focus
of
our
performance
audit
work
has
been
on
the
provincial
government's
covet
response
from
a
financial
perspective,
also
from
a
corporate
accountability
perspective,
as
well
as
a
program
Effectiveness
perspective.
While
we're
still
in
the
process
of
completing
audit
work
in
this
area,
we
are
moving
to
moving
forward
with
work
that
has
a
much
broader
Focus.
AC
A
significant
source
of
expenditures
within
government
is
through
grant
funding
and
Contracting
processes,
and
in
2324
these
will
be
a
focus
of
our
performance
auditing
and
will
be
conducted
on
a
recurring
basis.
Ensuring
rotational
audits
that
are
conducted
each
year.
Additional
performance
audit
work
plan
will
focus
on
corporate
accountability
for
reporting
on
results.
More
specifically,
the
sufficiency
of
reporting
on
outcomes
achieved
from
program
and
Service
delivery.
AC
We
look
to
increase
to
release
our
program
of
work
early
in
the
New
Year.
We're
currently
finalizing
that
program
of
work
now
I'm
going
to
also
spend
just
a
couple
of
moments
on
our
organizational
priorities
that
were
identified
in
our
business
plan
and
as
I
think
that
will
really
help
set
the
context
for
a
budget.
AC
So
it
shouldn't
be
surprising
that
our
people
are
a
most
important
part
of
our
business
and
we
strive
to
have
staff
who
are
engaged
and
empowered
and
and
indeed
engaged
in
the
work
that
we're
doing
as
we
serve
albertans
as
an
office
of
designated
Auto
professionals
that
are
entrusted
to
perform
complex
work
on
behalf
of
albertans.
We
must
continue
to
equip
and
enable
each
person
to
achieve
their
Highest
Potential,
while
we're
currently
finding
it
difficult
to
recruit
and
retain
Auto
professionals.
We
have
identified
six
Focus
areas
that
will
engage
and
support
our
people.
AC
AC
AC
So
this
takes
me
to
the
budget
request,
chair
and
members.
While
our
request
does
reflect
an
increase
of
7.9
and
I
guess
you
could
expect
Precision
from
our
office
7.9,
roughly
eight
percent.
Let
me
assure
you
that
this
increase
simply
represents
a
direct
response
to
the
challenges,
realities
and
organizational
priorities
that
we've
highlighted
in
our
plan.
AC
So
if
you
turn
to
page
three
of
your
budget
package,
I
would
like
to
take
an
opportunity
to
walk
you
through
some
of
those
items
and
page
three
of
the
budget
package.
That
I'm
referring
to
is
it's
on
the
back
end
of
the
business
plan
and
on
page
three
of
there
is
the
one
that
has
the
little
red
highlights
with
the
footnotes
attached
I'll
be
walking
through
those
with
the
red
highlights,
and
those
are
the
areas
where
we
have
variances
from
budget
to
budget
from
20
23-24.
So.
A
AC
Me
start
with
salaries
and
employee
benefits
that
line
item,
so
our
office
has
followed
the
same
salary
guidance
as
the
public
service
that
net
increase
of
four
percent
is
in
line
with
Merit
and
in
general,
in
general,
increases
that
are
provided
to
all
public
sector
employees
I'd
like
to
also
draw
your
attention
to
the
agent
and
temporary
service
line
items
Contracting
with
agents
has
increased
24
percent
over
our
prior
year.
Budget
and
temporary
staff
services
has
increased
11
percent
compared
to
our
prior
budget.
AC
There
are
two
primary
reasons
for
these
increases
first
relates
to
increased
rates.
We
enter
into
multi-year
contracts
with
our
agents,
which
fixes
our
price
for
a
specified
period
of
time.
A
number
of
these
contracts
are
coming
up
for
Renewal
and
we
are
seeing
substantial
increases
in
the
hourly
rate
charge
to
our
office
to
complete
this
work.
AC
This
move
from
a
slower
time
for
us
to
our
most
busy
time,
which
is
our
March
year
ends,
is,
is
having
an
impact
to
us
and
we
just
don't
have
the
resources
internally,
so
that
requires
us
to
agent
out
more
work
at
an
increased
rate.
AC
AC
The
first
speaks
to
our
Fleet
of
laptops,
so
our
Auditors
rely
on
laptops
to
basically
do
our
work.
These
devices
are
used
both
out
in
the
field
and
within
the
office,
so
we
make
extensive
use
of
them
and
we
are
experiencing
an
increased
number
of
Technical
and
reliability.
Issues
related
to
the
age
of
our
Fleet.
The
urgency
to
replace
our
laptops
is
also
compounded
by
the
fact
that
our
vendor
support
is
expiring.
On
March,
23
and
I.
Think
we've,
you
know,
we've
even
exceeded
the
normal
timeline.
AC
I
think
our
Fleet
is
what
Lulu
for
you
five
years
five
years
and
and
we
target
for
I,
think
four
and
we're
at
currently
five.
So
we
are
due
for
a
fleet
replacement.
So
what
you
have
in
the
budget
line
item
is
we're
exploring
an
option
this
time
to
lease
the
equipment
at
135
000
dollars
per
year
for
the
next
four
years
and
that
will
fully
replace
our
replace
our
Fleet.
AC
Secondly,
we
require
an
updated
Microsoft
teams,
a
system
that's
compatible
with
the
auto
visual
solution
to
support
our
connectivity
with
the
hybrid
work
environment
in
which
we
operate.
Our
system
just
doesn't
work
effectively
with
those
that
we
audit
the
nature
of
a
number
of
our
meetings
has
changed
substantially
and
we
need
to
upgrade
our
system
to
effectively
do
that
that
actually
helps
reduce
our
travel
costs
by
the
way.
AC
So
a
number
of
these
items
that
I'm
talking
about
we
have
certainly
looked
internally
on
where
we
can
use
internal
dollars,
and
we've
made
the
best
use
of
of
existing
recourse
resources
that
we
can,
that
that
upgrade
will
cost
a
hundred
thousand
dollars
and
we're
splitting
that
over
two
years,
so
20
50
000
will
be
covered
in
our
current
year
budget.
So,
as
I
said
we're
using
our
resources
wherever
we
can
to
cover
these
additional
costs
and
we're
able
to
absorb
that
in
this
current
Year's
budget.
AC
But
next
year
we
will
need
fifty
thousand
for
that.
So
chair,
I,
I
know
that
time
is
short
and
you've
had
a
long
day.
AC
So
I'm
going
to
conclude
my
my
comments
there
I
do
just
want
to
say
that
your
support
for
our
office
really
does
mean
that
albertans
can
be
confident
that
we
can
continue
to
provide
credible
and
trusted
information
on
on
government
spending
of
those
that
we
audit
and
credibility
is
key
to
the
core
of
of
our
office,
and
we
certainly
take
our
budget
request
seriously
and
I
can
assure
you
that
we
have
gone
through
our
operations
line
by
line.
Lulu.
AC
Can
tell
you
where
every
dollar
in
our
office
goes
I
assure
you
of
that,
and
we've
tried
to
use
our
resources
very,
very
prudently
and
judiciously
on
behalf
of
albertans.
So,
but
we
do,
we
are
asking
for
an
increase
this
year,
and
hopefully
my
explanations
have
have
supported
that.
We
look
forward
to
answering
any
questions
that
that
you
may
have
so
with
that
chair
and
members.
I'll
conclude.
Thank
you.
Thank.
B
L
Thank
you,
chair
and
good
afternoon,
Mr
Wiley.
It
is
good
to
see
you
again.
It's
been
a
little
while
my
thanks
to
you
and
all
of
your
staff,
everyone
at
the
office
of
the
AG,
for
the
great
work
that
you
do.
I
just
wanted
to
start
by
talking
about
something
that
you
did
mention,
of
course
we're
all
aware
of
that.
On
the
new
premium,
we've
had
a
pretty
dramatic
reorganization
of
the
government
today,
not
insignificant
expansion
of
the
number
of
Ministries,
and
certainly
a
shuffling
of
responsibilities
between
them.
L
So
just
questioning
I
guess
in
terms
of
the
you
you
noted
yourself.
This
is
going
to
be
an
increase
in
work
for
you.
You've
committed
that
you're
still
going
to
follow
through
on
the
timelines
and
everything
that
come
through
and
I
recognize.
The
bulk
of
your
work
is
financial
statement.
Auditing
now
you've
got
a
lot
more
Ministries
to
audit
more
departmental
CFOs
to
deal
with.
That's
all
going
to
add
to
the
workload
so
I
just
wanted
to
ask
when
you
put
together
this
budget
submission.
Is
this
reflecting
what
the
reality
was
before
that
change?
L
Or
is
this
something
you've
had
the
chance
to
adjust?
After
have
you
estimated
I
guess
the
additional
cost
to
your
office
to
deal
with
the
restructuring
and
expansion
in
terms
of
the
ministries,
Yes.
AC
We
have
we
we
always
remember.
This
is
what
I
was
referring
to
earlier.
Is
there
there
are
always
changes
within
our
audit.
I'm,
sorry,
I
can't
yeah.
That's
resulted
in
approximately
10
percent
more
time
on
on
those
those
organizations,
but
there
are
they.
AC
There
are
often
changes
to
Ministries
and
programs
to
change
program,
transfers
back
and
forth
between
various
Ministries.
So
it's
not
a
new
change.
It
just
does
require
additional
time
and
we
have
a
plan
for
that
and
it's
just
something
that
we'll
have
to
just
have
to
incur
just
as
many
of
the
other
changes.
Remember
that
happen,
you
quite
often
I
refer
to
one
where
organizational
changes
does
impact
our
office.
We
do
the
best
we
can,
with
our
existing
resources,
always
do
the
best
we
can
with
our
existing
resources.
AC
Looking
at
the
timing
of
the
work,
when
we
can
do
that
throughout
the
year,
looking
at
potentially
using
some
individuals
within
the
office
in
in
different
capacities
throughout
the
year
to
get
the
work
done
so
we're
we
try
to
be
as
responsive
as
we
can
to
these
external
changes,
but
it
does
have
an
operation
and
it
does
have.
Does
have
an
impact
in
our
in
our
audit
work
for
sure.
L
Yes,
thank
you
chair
and
thank
you.
Mr
well,
I
appreciate
the
clarification
on
that
I
mean
I.
I,
guess
I
recognize
yeah
it's
going
to
require
a
lot
of
extra
work.
I!
Imagine
when
it
comes
to
this
year's
annual
report
sort
of
having
to
look
at
what
belongs.
Where?
How
do
you
track
the
ministry
outcomes
when
Ministries
are
changing?
The
priorities
are
changing
as
per
I.
Guess
the
Mandate
letters
part
way
through
the
fiscal
year
so
I?
What
I
hear
you
saying?
Is
you?
Don't
you?
L
The
financial
resources
you've
requested
here
are,
you
feel,
are
adequate
to
cover?
Are
there
any
others?
I
guess
costs
that
might
be
involved
with
with
having
to
make
this
shift,
and
will
this
impact
I?
Guess
your
I
guess
the
amount
of
performance
audits.
You
may
be
able
to
do
as
opposed
to
fiscal
audits
or
are
there
other
costs,
I
guess
that
are
involved
in
terms
of
restructuring.
I
guess
costs
that
have
to
align
in
part
with
government
changes
and
some
of
these
other
aspects.
AC
You
know
I,
think
this
budget
is,
is
we've
done
our
best
to
having
this
budget
reflect
the
reality,
as
I
said
or
in
reality,
the
circumstances
that
we're
facing
right
now?
So
we
think
that
this
provides
us
with
the
resources
to
to
do
the
work
that
we
need
to
do
relating
to
the
the
priorities
that
I've
highlighted
and
the
work
that
we
need
to
do.
AC
I
will
say
this,
though,
and
I'm
not
trying
to
Pivot
away
from
the
line
of
your
questioning,
but
we
are
at
a
point
where
our
ability
to
attract
and
retain
resources
is,
is
becoming
an
issue
and
we're
doing
the
best
that
we
can
to
reallocate
work.
The
timing
of
work,
who's,
doing
the
work,
and
at
some
times
yes,
it
does
require
us
to
pause
certain
pieces
of
work
within
the
organization
to
respond
to
priorities
that
that
do
do
come
up,
but
from
a
financial
budget.
Pers
request
right
now.
AC
We
think
this
provides
us
with
the
resources
that
we
need
to
deliver
on
our
mandate,
and
that
includes
the
financial
statement
audits
that
we
do,
including
all
of
the
all
of
the
issues
that
have
Arisen
relating
to
changes
in
accounting
standards
and
as
well.
These
these
organizational
changes,
so
we
think
it's
a
fair
representation
of
the
reality
we're
facing
right
now.
Remember.
C
And
thank
you
for
coming
to
present
to
us
today
and
thank
you
for
your
service
to
the
province
of
Alberta.
Over
the
years,
I've
been
able
to
have
discussions
with
your
office
on
the
essentially
the
targets
on
Financial
auditing
performance
auditing
and
the
mix
that
is
there
now
is
35
percent
I
think
that's
increased
a
little
bit
over
the
over
the
last
number
of
years.
I
I'm,
not
exactly
sure
the
Mandate
that
your
offices
is
tasked
with.
AC
We
continue
to
stretch
Target
on
our
performance
audit
work,
it's
an
area
where
we
find
both
mlas
and
the
public
would
like
us
to
do
more
of
with
respect
to
our
mandate.
We
have
a
mandate
that
includes
financial
statement
Audits
and
it's
a
broad
mandate
in
financial
statement
in
the
BR
in
the
financial
statement
audit
area
it
is,
it
is
a
priority
area
from
the
perspective
of
our
Oddities,
in
that
there
are
timelines
and
commitments
when
that
information
is
to
be
publicly
released.
AC
Take,
for
example,
the
Consolidated
financial
statements
of
the
province,
there's
a
target
of
June
30
to
have
that
work
done,
and
we
work
very
diligently
to
get
that
done
so,
depending
on
the
nature
of
the
issues
or
complications
arising
with
an
audit.
It
can,
in
certain
cases,
cause
us
to
pause
certain
other
work
that
we
might
have
going
ongoing
in
the
performance
audit
area
to
draw
in
some
of
those
resources
to
help
meet
that
timeline.
AC
So
the
financial
statement
on
it
really
is
driven
around
the
timelines
of
the
reporting
and-
and
we
we
have
one
of
our
performance
metrics-
is
to
ensure
that
we
meet
those
timelines
of
those
that
we
audit.
So
it
is
important
to
us.
The
the
time
that
we
spend
on
on
the
performance
auditing
as
I
say,
is
we're
trying
to
have
our
audits
financial
statement
audits
conducted
as
efficiently
and
effectively
as
possible,
never
cross,
never
compromising
the
The
credibility
or
the
quality
of
the
work,
but
ensuring
that
we
are
being
as
efficient.
AC
So
we
can
apply
those
resources
to
those
performance
audits
where
there's
always
a
more
of
a
demand
than
we're
able
to
supply
so
you're
correct.
We
have
increased
that
Target
I,
believe
we
came
in
at
about
33
32,
33
percent
and
our
Target
was
around
35,
so
we're
not
there.
We
continue
to
do
look
at
various
ways
of
the
way
we're
conducting
our
work
to
be
able
to
do
more
work
in
the
area
of
performance,
auditing.
C
Essentially
performance
auditing
could
could
maybe
be
viewed
as
the
internal
auditor
within
a
within
a
an
organization
to
actually
increase
value
for
money
in
in
so
I
I.
Guess
I'm,
just
wondering
if,
if
we're
at
the
right
spot
at
35,
do
we
want
to
continue
to
grow
that
or
or
yeah?
As
long
as
we
can
see
that
there's
value
for
money,
then
then
there's
opportunity
to
grow
that,
but
that
I
I
think
there
there
needs
to
be
the
understanding
that
number
one.
C
We
have
an
opera
obligation
as
Government
to
report
back
to
albertans
on
the
that
that
the
Departments
are
are
the
reporting
is
sound
and
accurate,
and
then
also
we
can
help
albertus
to
understand
that
what
they
are
getting
value
for
money
through
our
performance
audits.
AC
Well,
well,
maybe
just
a
couple
of
things
to
give
context
that
that
might
help
a
little
bit.
So
if
you
look
at
the
landscape
across
Canada
with
respect
to
the
legislative
of
Auditors,
our
office,
I
would
suggest
that
Quebec
and
and
our
office
here
in
Alberta
is-
is
fairly
financial
statement.
Heavy.
Let's
put
it
that
way.
So,
for
example,
we're
achieving
about
30
percent
of
our
work
on
performance.
AC
Auditing
Ontario
spends
about
70
percent
of
their
budget
on
performance,
auditing,
and
that
varies
across
Canada
and,
and
there
are
reasons
there
are
reasons
for
that
and
there's
reasons
in
cost
structures
between
the
offices
across
Canada
as
well,
but
I,
just
I
guess.
I
would
suggest
that
you
know
one
of
the
differences,
fundamental
differences
of
of
the
performance
Audits
and
the
reason
that
came
about-
and
it
actually
came
about
in
about
1978
when
historically
the
role
of
the
auditor's
generals
was
to
just
look
at
the
financial.
AC
You
know
the
Legislative
Assembly
appropriates
money
on
behalf
of
Al
albertans,
the
governments
the
crown
spends.
That
money
is
then
is
accountable
back
to
the
legislative
assembly.
The
the
challenge,
though,
with
just
looking
at
the
the
financials,
is
that
the
metrics
in
the
public
sector
are
completely
different
than
the
metrics
in
the
private
sector.
When
you
look
at
a
financial
statement
in
a
private
sector,
the
primary
purpose
of
and
the
measures
are
driven
around
maximizing
shareholder
wealth
and
there's
all
kind
of
metrics
earnings
per
share
return
on
investment.
AC
AC
In
fact,
it
shows
you
what
was
budgeted
and
what
was
spent,
but
not
necessarily
what
was
achieved,
what
those
with
those
Investments
and
that's
where
the
whole
notion
of
performance
auditing
came
to
be
the
efficiency,
Effectiveness
and
economy
of
the
of
the
use
of
the
tax
dollars,
and
that's
where
the
Mandate
for
the
auto
Church
generals
came
in,
which
is
looking
at
the
value
proposition
of
what
was
achieved.
So
not
only
the
question
of
you
know
was
what
spent
what
pardon
me
was?
AC
What
was
budgeted
spent
over
under
yes,
but
also
what
was
achieved
for
those
dollars
and
a
large
part,
that's
what
the
value
our
performance
audit
really
looks
at.
Is
you
know
you
take
a
program
order,
for
example,
the
effectiveness
element
of
an
audit
of
a
program
is:
did
you
did
you
achieve
your
desired
results?
What
are
the
processes
to
allow
management
to
be
able
to
report
through
its
through
its
public
public
reporting
through
Ministry
and
reports
on
whether
the
results
that
were
achieved?
AC
Remember
I
would
suggest
that
that
there
is
a
continued
need
for
our
office
to
focus
on
performance
auditing
and
that
we,
and
that
we
not
assert
the
monies
that
we
are
trying
to
to
Delegate
for
that
work.
I
will
just
Prima
facia.
If
you
know,
if
you
look
at
the
nature
of
the
questions
that
are
asked
by
the
Public
Accounts
committee
to
management,
often
it
is
about,
could
we
talk
about
what
you
achieved?
AC
What
were
the
results
of
that
program
and
that's
really
at
the
heart
of
having
processes
and
systems
not
only
to
demonstrate
where
the
money
was
spent,
but
what
was
achieved
with
the
money?
And
that's
that's
a
that's.
A
big
part
of
of
our
work
is:
is
the
accountability
back
to
albertans
to
demonstrate
that
yeah?
You
spent
the
money,
but
you
also
achieved
a
b
and
c
with
it.
So
I
don't
know
if
that
answers
your.
C
L
Thank
you,
Mr,
chair,
excellent.
There
we
go
sorry
computer's
lagging
a
little
bit
so
I
just
wanted
to
return.
Then
Mr,
Wiley
too,
you
were
talking
about
I,
guess
some
of
the
challenges
with
Recruitment
and
I
recognize.
This
isn't
necessarily
a
new
issue
for
the
AG
I
recall
your
your
predecessor,
Mr
SAR
also
have
those
challenges
and
actually
spent
quite
a
bit
of
his
time
in
the
office.
L
Working
to
I
guess
make
the
office
a
more
attractive
workplace
to
be
able
to
compete
with
Private,
Industry
and
others
for
the
kind
of
talent
that
you
need.
I
can
appreciate
that
you
know
things
are
shifting
again
in
terms
of
the
the
economy,
the
market
and
certainly
the
impacts
of
the
pandemic
and
some
other
matters.
But
I
was
wondering
if
you
could
give
us
a
bit
of
a
sense
of
what
do
you
see
being
the
challenges
that
you
the
bigger
challenges
that
you're
facing
right
now
in
terms
of
that
recruitment?
L
What
are
the
elements
that
are
I
guess
attracting
these
workers
elsewhere
and
what
are
some
of
the
mitigations
or
steps
that
your
incentives
you're
looking
at
to
address
that.
AC
If
they're
in
the
management
role
and
I'm
very
positive
of
those
who
are
choosing
to
work
in
the
public
sector,
I
can
tell
you
that
it
is
a
challenge
that
my
office
faces,
that
you
know
when
you
visit
the
universities.
There
isn't
much
being
taught
about
public
sector
accounting,
public
sector,
auditing
and
interest
in
in
the
public
sector.
Financial
matters.
Quite
frankly,
and
that's
something
that
personally
I
I
want
to
spend
some
time
on
over
the
next
few
years
of
my
mandate
is
is
moving
that.
AC
But
what
I
want
to
say
is
that
those
who
are
joining
our
office
are
committed
to
the
work
of
the
office,
and
that
goes
a
long
way
to
the
value
and
the
quality
of
the
work
that
we're
doing.
With
respect
to
the
specific
challenges
it
shouldn't
come
as
a
surprise
that
one
of
them
is
salary.
Now
we
Benchmark
constantly,
as
you
can
imagine,
amongst
our
peers
across
Canada,
as
well
as
the
private
sector,
and
what
I
can
tell
you
at
a
high
level
without
getting
into
the
details.
Is
that,
generally
to
our
peers
across
Canada?
AC
We're
close
I
mean
the
salaries
are
similar?
They
vary
depending
on
the
level
of
the
the
role
that
the
individual
has
within
the
organization.
AC
However,
our
comparison
to
the
private
sector
and
to
Industry
and
to
the
municipal
sector
within
Alberta,
we
are
significantly
our
our
staff
are,
are
just
not
comparable.
In
fact,
I
would
say.
Let
me
say
this.
The
recent
study
to
of
the
professional
accountants
is
that
Alberta
is
I,
believe
it's
about
18
percent
higher
than
than
than
other
jurisdictions,
such
as
BC,
so
Alberta,
for
whatever
reason,
the
financial
accounting
world,
the
individuals,
the
market
rates
are,
are
higher
and
we're
just
not
able
to
compete
with
that
member.
That's
that's
the
reality.
AC
It
is
a.
It
is
a
it's
a
challenge
that
young
individuals
look
at
and
they
have
to
make
a
conscious
decision
of
their
career
choices
and
we're
very
appreciative
of
those
who
choose
to
come
and
work
with
us
and
support
and
and
make
Alberta
better,
but
that's
the
reality
we're
dealing
with.
So
what
are
we
doing?
AC
Well
we're
trying
to
do
a
number
of
things,
we're
trying
to
keep
the
people
that
we
are
able
to
attract,
but
we're
also
looking
at
different
ways
of
attracting
individuals,
we're
looking
at
potentially
areas
such
as
seasonal
work,
trying
to
capitalize
on
on
individuals,
who've
retired
early,
looking
at
retirees,
there's
just
a
whole
number
of
continual
hiring
process.
We're
looking
at
having
our
our
employees
themselves
engage
and
be
recruiters
to
their
friends,
their
networks
Etc.
So
we
really
are
trying
to
activate
that
recruiting
process
to
a
year-round
basis.
AC
AC
Listen,
the
Alberta
Government
is
a
60
billion
dollar
operation,
it's
huge
and
it's
and
it's
got
interesting
lines
of
business
and,
quite
frankly,
you
can
become
a
you
know
and
you're
working
in
the
energy
sector
in
the
morning
and
in
the
afternoon
you
can
be
working
in
healthcare
very
challenging
as
as
an
auditor,
because
the
expectation
is
that
you're
going
to
learn
those
systems
and
processes
quickly
identify
the
risks
and
everything
else.
So
it's
very
challenging,
but
it's
very
rewarding
there's
a
breadth
of
experience.
AC
AC
The
audits
that
they're
working
on
line
up
with
their
personal
interests,
as
well
as
their
learning
objectives,
we're
trying
to
help
and
become
a
more
of
a
learning
organization
that
also
works
with
the
individuals
of
their
learning
interests
that
that
dovetails
with
with
our
work,
so
remember
we're
trying
we're
trying
numerous
numerous
ways
on
both
fronts
to
attract
as
well
as
retain
I'll.
Stop
there.
AC
So
I
appreciate
that
breakdown,
Mr
Wiley
and
certainly
as
my
role
as
health
critics
certainly
have
heard
a
lot
about
recruitment
retention
and
training
over
the
last
few
years
and
can
appreciate
some
of
the
aspects
that
are.
It
seem
to
be
similar
in
your
work.
AC
Could
you
just
give
us
a
sense,
then,
just
as
a
final
follow-up
of
what
are
the
actual,
quantifying,
actually
I,
guess
sort
of
what
some
of
the
shortages
would
be
for
you
like
how
many
additional
staff
would
you
need
to
sort
of
be
I
guess
at
the
capacity
you
would
like
to
we're
targeting
150
ftes
and
we're
currently
at
145.,
so
we
we
need
to
get
up
to
the
150
ftes
and
if
you'll
recall
member
last
year,
our
Target
FTE
was
over
150
as
well
and
we're
just
we're
just
not
able
to
get
there
again
this
year,
I
think
last
year,
we're
at
146
Lulu
is
that
right,
146
last
year
this
year,
we're
at
145..
AC
That's
what
we're
looking
at.
Remember,
150.,
excellent!
Thank
you
Mr
one!
Are
there
any
additional
questions
from
the
committee
Mr
Orr
yeah?
Thank
you
very
much,
and
let
me
just
assure
you
I,
truly
appreciate
the
work
that
you
do.
It
is
absolutely
essential
to
to
well
industry
and
government.
Quite
frankly,
whatever
role
you're
working
in
you're
in
government
I,
just
I
believe
that
without
accountability,
there's
no
integrity
and
without
the
Integrity
there's
no
confidence.
AC
We
need
those
and
even
in
terms
of
the
performance
audits,
you
know
without
some
sort
of
evaluation.
Improvement
doesn't
happen
either.
So
it's
so
it's
all
good
in
my
mind
and
and
totally
supportive
of
what
you're
doing
just
two
areas
of
inquiry.
AC
I'd
like
to
pick
out
quickly
back
to
the
to
the
questions
that
Emily
van
daken
was
asking
just
a
just
a
little
thing
that
has
often
sort
of
niggled
at
me
a
bit
the
the
performance
pieces
I
often
find
them
nebulous
and
maybe
maybe
I
can
put
it
this
way.
AC
It's
too
often,
it
seems
to
me
like,
like
they're,
not
results,
oriented
kinds
of
of
performance
standards,
they're
more
just
sort
of
activity
or
churn
I
I,
don't
know
how
you
improve
that,
but
but
it's
just
a
comment
of
maybe
it's
just
a
weird
way
that
I
feel
about
it.
When
I,
when
I
read
those
things,
sometimes
they
say
well
that
tells
me
nothing
I
struggle
with
that.
A
little
bit
I
appreciate
your
insights
into
how
you
get
at
Real
Performance
standards
and
and
how
how
they
can
be
made.
AC
I,
don't
know,
I,
guess,
I,
guess
more
substantial!
I'll
I'll,
let
you
respond
to
that
one
first,
if
there's
anything,
you
can
remember,
I,
just
I
just
need
to
be
clear
on
one
thing
and
it's
a
critical
point.
From
my
perspective,
are
you
referring
to
our
performance
audit
reports?
Are
you
referring
to
the
reports
of
of
those
that
we
audit?
It's
the
second
one,
exactly
of
those
that
we
audit?
Yes,
yeah,
great
observation,
and
it's
something
that
is
going
to
be
a
priority
for
our
office,
as
I'd
mentioned
in
in
the
next
fiscal
year,.
AC
The
how
do
I
draw
how
to
address
this
in
the
best
way
you
know,
let
me
say
this
I've
been
with
the
office
for
a
number
of
years,
and
I
can
remember
back
in
the
days
when
I
think
it
was
Minister
dinning
at
the
time
introduced
business
plans,
performance
reports,
the
whole
concept
of
ministerial
accountability
in
action
right
and
key
to
that
was
ministerial
accountability.
AC
So
business
plan
you
set
out
what
you
want
to
achieve,
what
you're
going
to
achieve
and
you
put
in
place
and
in
a
plan
how
much
resources
you're
going
to
need
and
the
performance
metrics,
and
there
was
a
very,
very
close
working
relationship
back
then,
with
the
the
government,
particularly
The
Minister's
office
and
our
office
on
this
whole
reporting
side.
And
you
know
we
we
moved
into
the
area
of
actually
they
wanted
us
to
provide
Assurance
on
their
performance
reporting
and
we
worked
with
them
and
worked
to
achieve
that.
AC
AC
Unfortunately,
over
the
years
I
would
suggest
the
best
way
to
describe
it
was
that
that
became
less
of
a
priority
and-
and
in
fact
we
were
then
being
associated
with
our
involvement
with
those
metrics
was
we
were
being
associated
with
condoning
the
measures
that
that
were
being
reported
when,
in
fact,
we
didn't
have
anything
to
do
with
that,
and
we
were
spending
significant
resources
and,
quite
frankly,
I
think.
AC
A
decision
of
the
AG
at
the
time
was
that
you
know
what,
for
our
audit
effort,
we're
just
not
able
to
provide
the
level
of
assurance
that
was
originally
requested,
and
we
no
longer
do
that
work
now.
What
does
that?
What
does
that
tell
you
I
think
it
tells
you
that
there
can
improvements
be
made
in
the
area
of
public
reporting
of
non-financial
performance
measures,
so
you
can
report
on
the
and
in
most
Ministries
I.
AC
Think
you'll
still
see
that
you
won't
see
our
our
assurances
on
any
of
that
information,
but
I
think
there's
still
an
assertion
by
management
that
you
know
the
the
information
is
reliable
so
that
the
data
under
underlining
the
metrics
are
reliable,
that
the
information
is
comparable
to
budget.
So
whatever
was
included
in
the
business
plan
is
being
reported
on
in
the
results
report.
AC
The
the
biggest
thing
that's
missing
from
that
assertion
is:
is
the
measure
relevant
the
relevancy
assertion,
so
we
can
say
it's.
The
data
is
correct.
It's
in
the
right
period
and
lines
to
the
budget
and
everything
else,
but
is
it?
Is
it
the
best
measure?
Is
it
the
most
relevant
measure?
Does
it
measure
what
you
want
to
achieve
and
and
I
would
suggest
that
that's
the
area
if,
if
I,
was
to
sit
down
and
have
a
discussion
with
influencers?
Who
could
make
this
happen?
It
would
be
on
that
area.
AC
What
are
the
measures
that
you're
establishing?
How
are
you
going
to
know
that
you're
achieving
what
you
want
to
achieve,
both
with
respect
to
the
quality
of
the
services?
The
efficiency
of
the
services
right,
those
types
of
things
that
to
me
is
the
biggest
challenge
in
this
whole
area
of
non-financial
performance
reporting
is
the
relevancy
of
the
performance
measures
and
I
would
suggest
to
you.
Remember
that
that's
what
you're
hearing
from
your
counterparts
at
the
Public
Accounts
committee
when
they
are
asking
questions
of
of
Ministries
about
the
performance
reporting.
It
isn't
really.
AC
If
you,
if
you
look
to
the
heart
of
the
questions,
I'd
suggest
it's
about
the
relevancy
of
the
measures
and
I
think
that's
where
the
biggest
bang
for
the
buck
would
be
achieved.
If
we
were
to
invest
time
and
effort
into
public
performance
reporting
which
I'm
a
strong
advocate
for
again,
it's
something
that
I'd
I'd
really
like
to
be
able
to
do
something
with
before.
I.
AC
Hang
up
my
hat
in
this
role
and
move
on
to
other
things
that
to
me,
I
think,
would
would
reap
huge
benefits
to
albertans,
because
that's
what
albertans
want
it's
there?
The
programs
are
designed
to
either
deliver
services
to
vulnerable
albertans
or
to
achieve
a
specific
number
of
jobs,
for
example,
with
respect
to
a
program.
We
want
a
job
creation,
we're
going
to
create
5
000
jobs.
Well,
how
many
jobs
did
you
create
and
the
learnings
from
that
are
beneficial?
What
did
we
do
that
worked?
Well?
AC
What
did
we
do
that
didn't
work
so
well
and
using
both
of
those
that
information
to
help
better
programs
to
better
serve
albertans
in
the
future?
That's
what
I
would
suggest
that
that
I'd
be
having
a
discussion
with
anyone
on
who
is
really
interested
about
moving
the
needle
on
that
it
would
be
the
relevancy
of
the
performance
measures
and
the
rigor
applied
up
front
to
that.
AC
No
I
definitely
appreciate
appreciate
your
insights.
I've
just
had
an
angst
over
it
over
the
years
as
I
keep
reading
these
things
and
and
I
think
you're
right
on
I
couldn't
agree
with
you
more.
So
thank
you
for
your
thoughts
on
it.
AC
Is
there
anyone
else
on
the
committee
that
had
any
other
additional
questions
online
Mr
Loyola
go
ahead?
Well,
I
just
want
to
express
that
I've
never
seen
from
a
public
servant
such
passion
and
it
comes
to
their
job
and
I
really
want
to
thank
you
for
that,
and
because
it
reminds
us
at
the
end
of
the
day,
what
we're
doing
here.
AC
AC
Well
then,
I
guess
that
just
leaves
it
to
the
chair
to
say:
Thank,
you
Mr
Wiley,
to
both
yourself
and
your
staff
for
your
presentation
and
for
your
for
responding
to
the
committee's
questions
for
your
information.
It's
anticipated
that
the
committee's
decision
on
the
officer's
budgets
will
be
sent
out
to
you
in
writing
early
next
week.
Well,
thank
you
very
much
chair
and
members
for
your
time.
I
really
do
appreciate
it.
Thank
you
so
much.
Thank
you,
okay.
AC
AC
AC
AC
AC
AC
AC
Welcome
back
everyone
as
we've
completed
agenda
item
4A,
the
committee
now
needs
to
make
decisions
on
the
budget
submissions
made
by
each
of
the
officers.
To
this
end,
I've
asked
the
committee
clerk
to
provide
some
draft
motions
for
use
during
our
deliberations
to
ensure
that
we
have
appropriate
wording
for
each
budget
estimate
under
consideration.
AC
AC
AC
Okay,
all
right
next
motion
moved
that
the
standing
committee
on
legislative
offices
approved
of
the
2023-2024
budget
estimates
for
the
office
of
the
public
interest.
Commissioner,
in
the
amount
of
one
million
410
000
is
submitted,
do
I
have
somebody
that's
prepared
to
move
Mr,
Orr,
okay,
moved
by
Mr
Orr
that
the
standing
committee
on
legislative
offices
approved
the
2023-2024
budget
estimates
for
the
office
of
the
public
interest,
commissioner,
in
the
amount
of
1
million
four
hundred
and
ten
thousand
as
submitted.
Is
there
any
discussion.
AC
AC
AC
150
or
115
150,
one
five
zero
one
hundred
and
fifty
thousand
dollars,
so
that
would
make
it
42
million
yeah,
42
million
547
000,
42
million
500
and
42
million
five
hundred
and
forty
seven
thousand
forty
seven
thousand
okay.
AC
We
have
a
motion
up
to
amend.
May
I
speak
to
the
motion.
Yes,
you
may,
sir,
so
I'd
like
to
appeal
to
my
esteemed
colleagues
along
on
the
other
side,
that
on
this
side,
we
firmly
believe
that
there
is
no
independent
election
commissioner
and
there
should
be
at
minimum.
Be
an
election
commissioner
within
the
office
of
the
chief
electoral
officer
and
the
members
of
this
committee
have
an
opportunity.
AC
You
know
we
we
have
a
new
leader
right
and
they
sent
a
message
to
albertans
that
the
most
vital
institution
that
supports
democracy
is
elections,
and
that
means
the
chief
electoral
officer
was
fully
responsible
for
how
elections
are
run
and
in
that
office.
There
should
be
an
election
commissioner
responsible
for
compliance
for
ensuring
that
contributions
are
legal
for
ensuring
that
election
law
laws
are
upheld
and
the
CEO
himself
has
made
a
recommendation
that
there
should
be
prohibitions
on
publication
of
misleading
information
on
the
internet
and
through
social
media.
AC
AC
AC
AC
Okay,
thank
you.
I
I
do
not
believe
I'll
be
supporting
this
motion.
AC
AC
AC
Essentially
spend
another
hundred
and
fifty
thousand
dollars
because
he
wasn't
doing
his
job
and
I
I.
Think
that's
an
insult
to
the
to
the
officer
himself
and
I
believe
that
it's
in
in
my
opinion,
we
should
be
honoring.
The
original
ask
if
there's
a
will
on
the
Legislative
Assembly
to
change
the
mandate
and
to
change
the
the
the
current
conditions
that
the
Electoral
officer.
AC
So
this
is
the
first
time
that
I've
been
on
this
committee.
Is
it
the
purview
or
the
the
Mandate
of
the
committee
right
now
to
to
make
policy
decisions,
or
are
we
just
looking
at
at
budgets?
This
seems
like
a
policy
shift
to
me.
So
what
what
is
our
mandate
right
now?
AC
I
do
not
believe
that
we
can
make
policy
on
this
committee,
but,
as
the
chair
I'm
looking
at
this
and
going,
we
cannot
and
just
maybe
for
clarification
for
Mr
Loyola.
AC
My
understanding
is
that
this
committee
simply
has
to
make
a
decision
whether
we
want
to
increase
the
budget
by
150,
000
or
not.
I
mean
okay.
Well,
thank
you
very
much
for
the
clarity
on
that
and
and
based
upon
that
I
I'm,
not
sure
whether
Mr
Loyola
wants
to
withdraw
his
motion,
so
that
you
know
because
his
his
motion
was
specifically
to
try
to
get
another
another
office
with
in
the
office
at
the
chief
electoral
office,
and
this
can't
happen
so
I'm
just
wondering
if
he
wants
to
withdraw
his
motion.
AC
Well,
technically
he's
only
amending
the
the
motion
by
adding
a
dollar
amount
in
his
discussion.
Mr
Loyola
was
suggesting
that
he'd
like
to
see
that
go
towards
an
election
commissioner,
but
I'll.
Let
Mr
Loyola
speak
and
exactly
so
I'm
only
making
an
amendment
to
the
dollar
amount
and
I
mean
the
Mandate
of
the
chief
electoral.
The
office
of
the
chief
electoral
officer
could
change
in
the
future.
AC
It's
not
something
that
has
to
be
decided
upon
right
now,
but
if
the
chief
electoral
officer
had
those
extra
dollars
potentially
do
make
some
kind
of
change
in
the
future
should
he
be
directed
to
do
so.
So
at
this
time,
I'm
just
making
a
dollar
Amendment
and
that
is
and
I
mean
I
did
provide
rationalize
to
why.
AC
But
it
is
the
choice
of
the
committee
what
they
would
like
to
do,
but
of
course
I
again
I
stress
that
having
an
elections,
commissioner,
is
not
a
frivolous
position
when
it
comes
to
defending
our
democracy
standing
up
for
democracy.
That's
what
albertans
want
us
to
do.
Make
sure
that
everything
is
done,
that
contributions
are
legal
and
that
laws
are
upheld.
AC
AC
Thank
you,
chair
I,
do
support
this
amendment
and
I
think
following
Mr
loyola's
remarks,
I'll
say
that,
should
the
election
office
election
commissioner
or
our
chief
electoral
officer
so
decide
in
the
future,
should
this
amendment
pass
to
split
the
operations
between
an
electoral
officer
and
an
election
commissioner,
so
they're
not
embodied
in
one
person,
then
this
would
allow
that
to
take
place
because
the
funding
would
already
be
there
so
we're
looking
at
enabling
that
for
the
future,
because,
of
course,
the
elections
officer
is,
is
very
much
attuned
to
the
will
of
the
the
public
and
the
public
attention
which
is
turned
now
on
really
looking
at
the
fairness
of
Elections
and
protection
of
our
Democratic
institutions,
and
we
would
be
remiss
I
think
if
we
didn't
give
the
office
the
flexibility
it
needed
to
have
budget
it
wise
if
they
so
chose
to
make
sure
that
those
two
positions
were
occupied
by
two
different
people.
AC
AC
You
can
proceed
Mr,
Hunter,
okay,
thank
you.
Look,
I
I
understand
their
point,
but
the
reality
is.
Is
that
that
you
know
I
think
they
asked
if,
if
they
were
gonna,
if
they
needed
more
I,
think
two
or
three
times
during
their
line
of
questioning
and
the
response
was
no,
we
don't.
We
can
do
what
we
need
to
with
the
budget
as
presented.
AC
I
think
that
it's
it's
incumbent
upon
us
to
to
support
them
in
their
in
their
ask
and
and
not
to
presuppose
that
that
they
would
want
to
do
this
when
we
they
think
they
were
asked
two
or
three
times
that
they
would,
if
they
needed
more
money,
and
they
said
no
so
I
I
think
that
we
need
to
just
stick
with
the
original
amount.
Mr
chair.
AC
Thank
you,
Mr
Hunter.
Is
there
anyone
else
on
the
committee
that
would
like
to
to
speak
to
this
amendment?
AC
Okay,
we'll
read
the
motion
as
amended.
I
just
want
to
make
sure
that
Mr
Loyola
has
the
amendment
and
the
motion
as
it
as
it
wants
to
be,
read
and,
and
then
we'll
vote
so
removed
by
Mr
Loyola
that
the
standing
committee
on
legislative
offices
approved
the
2023-2024
budget.
Estimates
for
the
office
of
Chief
electoral
officer
in
the
amount
of
442
million
547
000
has
amended.
AC
AC
No,
the
chair
says
that
this
has
been
defeated.
There's
been
a
network
request
for
a
recorded
vote.
We
will
read
this
over
one
more
time
and
have
a
recorded
vote.
We
will
go
through
each
of
the
individual
members
moved
by
Mr
Loyola
that
the
standing
committee
on
the
legislative
offices
approved
the
2023-2024
budget
estimates
for
the
office
of
the
chief
electoral
officer
in
the
amount
of
42
million
five
hundred
and
forty
thousand
thousand
as
amended
all
those
in
favor.
We'll
start
within
the
chamber.
AC
Pardon
me
yeah,
we'll
just
we'll
we'll
start
with
those
in
favor
Mr,
Dak,
ER,
Mr,
Loyola
online,
those
in
favor
aye,
Mr
CeCe
in
favor,
Mr
Shepard
in
favor,
Mr
Shepherd's
in
favor,
any
others
in
favor
those
opposed
starting
inside
the
chamber
here.
Event
I
can
opposed
Mr,
Van
Dyke
and
opposed
Ron
or
opposed
Mr
Orr
opposed
online
Mr
Hunter
Mrs
lard
opposed
Hunter
opposed
Mr
Hunter
opposed
Rosen
opposed
Miss
Rosen
opposed.
AC
AC
The
original
motion
was
a
Mr
by
Mr
Dak,
moved
by
Mr
Dak
that
the
standing
committee
on
legislative
offices
approved
the
2023-2024
budget
estimates
for
the
office
of
Chief
electoral
officer
in
the
amount
of
42
million
three
hundred
and
ninety
seven
thousand.
As
submitted
discussion
on
the
original
motion.
AC
Yes,
Mr
deck
I'll
just
say:
I
wish.
The
amendment
had
been
carried.
However,
the
emotion
I
think
should
be
supported
now,
without
further
obfuscation
of
the
role
at
hand
to
make
sure
the
budget
doesn't
hit
any
other
comments
by
members
of
the
committee
hearing.
None
just
Clarity,
Mr
Mr,
chair
just
Clarity,
was
that
originally
moved
by
Mr
Dak
I'm.
Sorry.
Could
you
say
that
again,
please
was
the
motion
originally
moved
by
Mr
Dak.
The
motion
was
originally
moved
by
Mr
deck,
and
yet
he
voted
in
favor
of
an
amendment
to
it.
AC
That's
that's
allowed.
That's
fine.
Somebody
proposed
an
amendment
and
he
liked
the
amendment,
and
so
he
supported
that
Amendment.
Okay,
we're
back
on
our
original
motion.
The
original
motion
reads:
moved
by
Mr
dact
at
the
standing
committee
on
legislative
offices
approved
the
2023-2024
budget.
Estimates
for
the
office
of
the
chief
electoral
officer
in
the
amount
of
42
million
397
000
has
submitted
all
those
in
favor.
Please
say:
aye
aye,
aye,
hi
hi.
Are
there
any
opposed,
I
declare
that
motion
carry.
AC
Our
next
motion
move
that
the
standing
committee
on
legislative
offices
approved
the
2023-2024
budget
estimates
for
the
officer
of
the
auditor
general
in
the
amount
of
29
million
six
hundred
and
twenty
thousand
as
submitted.
Do
we
have
somebody
that
is
prepared
to
move
this
motion?
Mr
van
daken
has
moved
motion,
so
it
should
read
moved
by
Mr
Van
Dyken.
The
standing
committee
on
the
legislative
offices
approved
the
2023-2024
budget
estimates
for
the
office
of
the
auditor
general
in
the
amount
of
29
million
six
hundred
and
twenty
thousand
as
submitted
discussion.
AC
Are
there
any
opposed,
I
declare
that
motion
carried
with
that
we
have
now
completed
the
review
of
the
officer's
budget.
Estimates
for
2023,
2024
and
I
want
to
thank
everyone
very
much
for
all
of
your
hard
work.
Today
we
are
now
on
point
five
of
our
agenda.
Other
business.
Are
there
any
items
for
discussion
under
other
business?
AC
If
not,
the
next
meeting
for
the
legislative
office's
committee
will
be
at
the
call
of
the
chair.
Would
any
would
a
member
be
willing
to
move
a
motion
to
adjourn
Mr
Orr
moves
to
adjourn
this
meeting.
Thank
you
very
much.
We
are
do
we
have
to
vote.
Well,
that's
right.
We
do
have
to
it's
a
long
day,
all
those
in
favor
of
the
motion
to
adjourn
anybody
against
all
right.
Thank
you
very
much.
We
have
worked
hard.
We
will
see
you
folks
later
in
the
chamber
next
week.
Thank
you
very
much.