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From YouTube: Standing Committee on Public Accounts - Feb. 14th, 2023
Description
Legislative Assembly of Alberta
A
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B
Meeting
of
the
Public
Accounts
committee
to
order,
thank
you
everyone
for
attending
this
morning.
My
name
is
Shannon
Phillips
I'm,
the
MLA
for
lessbridge
West
and
chair
of
this
committee.
So,
as
we
begin
this
morning,
I
will
invite
members
guests
in
Lao
staff
at
table
to
introduce
themselves
we'll
begin
with
the
deputy
chair.
Please.
C
N
B
B
Very
good
member
Stefan,
St
Patrick's
Day,
is
next
month.
Today
is
Valentine's
Day,
but
I
would
know
for
the
record
the
following:
substitutions:
MLA
Roswell
for
MLA
Singh
and
honorable
MLA
sabir
for
MLA
pancholi.
So
a
few
housekeeping
items
this
morning
our
microphones
are
operated
by
Hansard
staff
committee
proceedings
are
live
streamed
on
the
internet
and
broadcast
on
Alberta
assembly
TV.
B
The
audio
and
video
stream
of
transcripts
of
and
meeting
and
transcripts
of
meetings
can
be
accessed
by
the
ledge
assembly
website
and
those
participating
by
video
conference
are
encouraged
to
please
tune
on
your
camera.
When
speaking
and
mute
your
microphone
when
not
speaking
and
if
you
wish
to
be
put
on
the
speakers
list,
send
an
email
or
a
message
to
the
committee
Clerk
or
in
the
chat
and
members
in
the
room.
Please
signal
to
the
chair,
and
so
we'll
now
move
on
to
the
agenda.
We
have.
B
Are
there
any
changes
or
additions
to
the
agenda?
My
friends
so
I'll
look
to
the
floor
and
look
for
a
motion
that
the
standing
Committee
on
Public
Accounts
has
moved
by
member
turton
approved
the
draft
agenda
for
today's
meeting
as
distributed.
Is
there
any
discussion
on
this
motion
seeing
none
I'll
look
to
the
floor,
all
in
favor.
S
B
Okay,
are
there
any
opposed?
Thank
you
that
motion
is
Carriage.
I'll
move
to
the
approval
of
minutes.
Now
we
have
minutes
from
our
January
9th
meeting
of
the
committee.
Do
members
have
any
errors
or
omissions
to
note,
seeing
Nana
look
to
the
floor
for
a
motion
that
the
minutes
of
January
9th
meeting
of
standing
Committee
on
Public
Accounts
be
approved
as
distributed
as
moved
by
member
Renault?
Thank
you.
B
Is
there
any
discussion
on
this
motion
seeing
none
all
in
favor
online,
all
in
favor,
okay,
all
right
are
there
any
opposed,
seeing
none
that
motion
is
carried.
Thank
you.
Members
will
move
on
to
item
four
of
our
agenda,
that
is
a
hearing
from
the
ministry
of
jobs,
economy
and
Northern
development.
At
our
last
meeting
on
January
9th,
the
committee
decided
to
invite
two
Ministries
guilds,
trades
profession
and
professions,
and
jobs
and
economy
and
Northern
development
to
appear
before
the
committee
to
answer
our
questions
related
to
the
auditor
General's
November
2022
report.
B
Given
that
these
were
new
departments,
there
was
some
confusion
regarding
ministerial
responsibilities
and
designated
regulations
following
the
restructuring
that
occurred
last
October,
and
so
the
deputy
minister
of
scale,
skilled,
trades
and
professions
declined
the
committee's
invitation
to
appear
today
on
the
basis
that
none
of
the
matters
dealt
with
in
the
auditor.
General's
report
lie
within
the
ministry's
Mandate,
so
that
makes
sense.
B
So
opening
remarks
from
the
ministry
are
10
minutes
and
then
what
we
have,
our
official
opposition
caucus,
questioning,
block
of
15
minutes,
government
caucus,
15
minutes
and
then
two
blocks
of
10.
or
one
block
rather
of
10
each,
and
we
will
do
the
the
three
minutes
of
reading
in
questions
at
the
end.
If
there
are
any,
we
will
not
have
a
second
hour
discussion
specifically
on
the
AG
report,
since
that
second
hour
was
set
aside
with
the
skilled,
trades
and
professions.
B
The
ministry
of
jobs,
economy
and
Northern
development
is
invited
to
appear
before
the
committee
again
next
week
to
discuss
the
annual
report
and
all
their
outstanding
recommendations,
as
they
had
not
appeared
before
the
Committee
in
some
time.
So
I
hope
that
makes
some
modicum
of
sense
to
everyone
and
we
welcome
the
ministry
officials.
Your
time
begins
when
you
start
talking.
You
have
10
minutes.
H
With
me
today
are
my
colleagues,
Sonja
Johnson
assistant,
Deputy,
minister
of
financial
services
and
Senior
senior
Financial
Officer
Tanis
liebric
acting
assistant
Deputy,
minister
of
Economic,
Development
and
business
supports
who's
sitting
in
the
gallery.
Executive
Director
of
Business
supports
Andre,
rieve
and
Scott
Beebe
exec,
sorry,
Scott,
BB,
Executive,
Director
of
Business
supports
and
Andre
Riva
executive
director
of
financial
services,
the
ministry
of
jobs,
economy
and
Northern
development
focuses
on
serving
the
needs
of
employers
and
employees,
while
diversifying
the
economy
with
an
added
focus
on
Northern
Alberta.
H
It
also
supports
safe,
healthy
and
fair
workplaces
for
albertans
on
March
11
2020,
the
World
Health
Organization
declared
covid-19
a
global
a
global
pandemic.
Six
days
later,
on,
March
17
2020
Alberta's
government
issued
a
state
of
Public
Health
Emergency,
which
resulted
in
the
closure
of
non-essential,
businesses
and
services
throughout
the
province.
H
The
pandemic
was
truly
unprecedented
in
scope
and
impact
and
required
the
government
to
be
nimble
in
its
approach
to
ensuring
the
health
and
safety
of
its
citizens.
New
strategies
were
required,
and
time
was
of
the
essence,
as
we
worked
to
address
the
challenges
of
our
job
creators
and
all
albertans.
H
In
response
to
these
challenges,
our
ministry
included
several
supports
to
help
reduce
the
spread
of
the
virus
and
provide
much
needed
financial
assistance
to
albertans
and
businesses.
While
some
programs
were
developed
over
time,
others
were
needed
almost
instantly
like
the
two
we
will
be
discussing
today.
H
The
emergency
isolation,
support
program
or
Eis
provided
vital
financial
assistance
to
albertans
to
encourage
them
to
isolate
during
the
covid-19
epidemic
until
Federal
supports
were
rolled
out
to
support
albertans
as
quickly
as
possible.
The
government
worked
rapidly
to
design
and
implement
this
program
in
the
spring
of
2020.
It
launched
on
March
25th
and
closed
two
weeks
later
on.
April
5th
put
it
in
context.
Within
approximately
two
weeks
after
declaring
a
state
of
Public
Health
Emergency,
the
government
released
108
million
dollars
intended
to
help
nearly
94
000
albertans.
H
H
It
should
be
remembered
that
the
spring
of
2020
a
time
when
many
people
were
left
with
uncertainty
around
how
they
were
going
to
get
by
while
isolating
or
take
care
of
loved
ones
who
are
sick,
while
also
paying
for
Necessities
like
rent
and
electricity
and
food,
was
a
significant,
very
significant
event
in
all
of
our
Lives.
By
providing
support
to
people
who
are
isolating
the
the
Eis
program
intended
to
help
albertans
follow
Public
Health
measures,
while
making
sure
their
basic
needs
were
met.
The
program
achieved
its
goals
in
an
extremely
short
turnaround
time.
A
H
T
H
Program,
the
program
applied
to
two
levels
applied
two
levels
of
application
approvals:
one
automated
online
computer
control,
screened
applicants
through
three
sections
of
the
application
process,
which
included
confirming
eligibility
for
the
program
and
Alberta
residence,
residency
verification
process,
an
application,
applicant
information
and
declarations.
Each
application
section
needed
to
be
answered
correctly
to
proceed
to
the
next
section
program.
H
H
It
is
also
important
to
note
that
risk-based
assessment
programs
are
exactly
that
programs
that
occur
a
level
of
risk
in
their
developments
and
deployment
to
ensure
everyone
who
is
eligible
have
the
opportunity
to
apply
for
the
program.
In
a
short
turnaround
time.
There
was
a
potential
risk
of
payments
going
to
recipients
who
are
not
eligible
people
needed
immediate
help,
and
this
funding
gave
them
that
support.
H
During
this
time,
the
capacity
within
the
mystery
was
stressed
within
a
priority
helping
people
and
businesses,
given
the
unique
nature
of
this
program,
which
included
developing
delivering
other
significant
covid-19
and
Recovery
plan
programs,
the
capacity
to
conduct
post
payment
eligibility
verification
was
challenged
in
terms
of
our
ability
to
do
so.
After
assessing
the
initial
responses
from
a
sample
of
recipients,
a
decision
was
made
not
to
follow
up
on
further
or
conduct
additional
post
payment
verification
activities.
This
decision
was
made
with
in
conversation
and
with
the
support
of
the
minister,
there
is
November
2022
report
concluded.
H
H
This
leads
me
to
talk
about
the
supports
the
Alberta
Government
provided
to
the
small
and
medium-sized
businesses
in
Alberta.
One
such
program
is
the
small
and
medium
Enterprise
relaunch,
Grant
or
smerg.
As
you
know,
covid-19
the
covid-19
pandemic
caused
widespread
disruption
to
the
provincial
and
local
economies,
like
never
seen
before
many
businesses
experience
significant
declines
in
revenues.
While
others
were
required
to
temporarily
cease
operations
altogether.
H
Due
to
Public
Health
orders,
merg
was
designed
to
provide
financial
assistance
to
businesses,
cooperatives
and
non-profits
across
the
province
that
face
restrictions
or
closures
from
public
health
orders
and
lost
Revenue.
As
a
result,
this
assistance
proved
vital
to
these
organizations
with
the
first
phase
of
the
program
rolling
out
on
June
2020.
As
the
pandemic
continued
through
the
remainder
of
2020
and
into
2021,
the
smart
program
wrote
in
two
more
phases:
the
reflected
the
changing
needs
of
businesses
and
ongoing
impacts
of
the
prolonged
pandemic,
related
restrictions.
H
The
spring
program
parameters
were
informed
through
a
number
of
mechanisms,
including
jurisdictional
scans
or
similar
programs
across
Canada
and
feedback
from
businesses,
the
Alberta
Chamber
of
Commerce
and
Canadian
Federation
of
Independent
businesses,
as
well
as
industry
data
and
statistics.
The
result
was
a
responsive
program
to
support
eligible
organizations
across
the
province
to
ensure
effective
stewardship
of
public
funds.
All
applications
were
reviewed
through
an
online
application
system
which
had
a
number
of
automated
controls
and
data
fields
to
quickly
assess
claims,
as
as
as
well
as
identify
those
with
potential
issues.
H
H
H
To
well-defined
eligibility
information,
the
department
used
a
number
of
criteria
to
assess
application,
approved
applications
for
potential
post
payment
review.
Given
the
volume
the
department
divided
the
applications
into
high
and
low
risk
categories,
this
information
was
then
used
to
determine
a
value
for
money
approach
to
verify
eligibility
and,
in
some
cases,
repayments
of
funds
of.
E
H
000
proof,
applications,
95
or
98
000
were
considered
low
risk,
meaning
these
applicants
reported
business
and
relevant
Revenue
information
that
was
reasonable
for
their
sector
of
the
high-risk
applications.
The
ministry
expected
over
1
000
eligibility
for
eligibility,
verification,
as
noted
in
the
auditor
to
General
support
more
than
half
demonstrated.
They
were
eligible
I
want
to
point
out
that
half
of
these
high-risk
applicants
were
later
deemed
eligible
after
the
auto
work.
H
After
the
audit
work
had
considered
their
supporting
information
applicants
who
are
not
able
to
verify
their
eligibility
through
this
process
have
been
or
will
be
asked
to
repay
funding.
Smaller
medium-sized
Enterprises
are
an
important
part
of
Alberta's
economy,
accounting
for
more
than
99
of
all
businesses.
Nearly
55
percent
of
all
employment
through
the
smart
program
government
provided
the
lifeline
hi.
B
B
B
M
You,
madam
chair,
and
thank
you
to
the
officials
for
being
here
today.
I
just
had
a
quick
question
for
Mr
McLeod.
You
mentioned
in
your
statement
that
your
decision
to
not
do
the
verification
after
the
program
was
done,
was
approved
or
supported
by
the
minister.
Can
you
just
tell
me
really
briefly
what
that
rationale
was
to
decide
not
to
pursue
that.
H
In
consultation
with
the
minister,
the
conclusion
was
reached
to
not
continue
further
verification
or
collection
efforts
with
respect
to
the
Eis
program.
That
decision
was
made
in
late
2020
one
and
the
basic
foundation
for
the
the
decision
was
after
assessing
the
information
gathered
as
part
of
the
audit
conducted
by
a
corporate
internal
audit
services,
and
the
initial
response
is
from
a
sample
of
recipients.
A
strategic
decision
was
made
to
not
follow
up
further
or
conduct
additional
post
payment
verification
activities.
H
Our
assessment
was
that
further
attempts
to
contact,
Eis
recipients
and
recover
and
recover
potentially
ineligible
payments
would
have
been
extremely
resource.
Intensive
and
likely
would
not
have
resulted
in
further
information
gains
already
achieved
through
the
corporate
internal
audit
services
or
collections.
It's.
M
Too
much
work
to
go
back
and
do
that.
Okay,
that's
fine!
We're
going
to
move
on
a
little
bit
and
again
I
understand
that
we
have
the
luxury
of
looking
backwards.
I
understand
this
program.
Speed
was
involved
and
there
was
a
an
acute
need.
So
I
just
wanted
to
preface
my
comments
with
that.
So
the
department
decided
that
a
partially
verified
my
digital
ID
account
was
sufficient
to
verify
the
applicant's
residency.
Now
the
audit
examination
found
that
82
percent
of
successful
applicants
only
had
partially
verified
Maddie
when
they
applied
for
the
Emergency
isolation
benefit.
M
So
the
department
failed
to
mitigate
potential
fraud
risk
by
not
requiring
all
pneumati
accounts
to
be
fully
verified,
eventually,
so
understandable
risk
again
understanding
the
the
Need
for
Speed.
So
here's
some
of
my
questions.
So
could
you
any
official?
Please
describe
the
steps
they
undertook
to
un
to
ensure
that
this
sort
of
web-based
emergency
isolation,
support
application
process
was
accessible
to
all
albertans.
H
There
are
a
variety
of
accessibility
issues
with
respect
to
that,
for
example,
access
to
a
computer
was
one
of
them
and
ultimately,
due
to
the
speed
which
it
needed
to
be
stood
up
with,
we
couldn't
have
access
to
all
of
those
sort
of
services.
So,
for
example,
some
people
would
have
preferred
to
apply
in
person
and
due
to
both
the
health
risk,
the
Staffing
requirements
and
the
time
frame
with
within
which
these
decisions
had
to
be
made.
H
M
You
settled
on
so
you
decided
that
we're
going
to
do
this
online
people
are
apply
this
way,
so
we
got
to
do
it
quickly,
but
we
know
that
there
are
between
600
and
900
000
albertans,
who
have
disabilities
of
some
kind.
So
it's
pretty
significant
number.
So
what
are
we
doing
to
make
this
process
as
accessible
as
possible?
Now
understanding,
there's
the
premier's
council
and
Status
people
with
disabilities?
They
are
there
solely
to
provide
advice
to
government.
H
So
once
again,
I'm
not
I'm,
not
aware
of
that
specific
activity.
This
program
was
based
on
a
previous
set
of
software
that
was
available
during
emergencies
in
Alberta.
It
was
stood
up
by
service
Alberta
with
respect
to
those
details,
so
I'm
not
aware
of
that,
but
I
can
say
that
we
have,
throughout
all
of
the
reviews
that
have
sort
of
taken
place
with
respect
to
this
program
attempted
to
put
together
Lessons,
Learned
and
understand
from
that.
M
It's
great
and
I
hope
that
this
will
make
the
lessons
learned,
because
I
think
even
just
having
alternate
text
for
images
infographics
is
really
important.
Okay,
so
I'm
going
to
move
on
a
little
bit.
So
on
page
10
of
the
the
report,
the
Aging
notes
that
oversight
of
the
approval
process
is
critical
to
ensure
consistency
and
accuracy.
So
key
findings
on
page
11
told
us
that
adjudicators
were
trained
on
documented
approval
processes,
but
there
was
no
oversight
over
adjudicator
performance.
M
So
adjudicators
examined
two
eligibility
criteria
not
assessed
by
online
automated
controls,
so
whether
the
applicant
was
at
least
18
years
of
age
and
whether
the
start
date
of
the
self-isolation
was
within
14
days
of
the
program
application
date.
Now
the
report
notes
132
service.
Alberta
staff
were
deployed
to
adjudicate
so
how
many
of
those
132
staff
completed
the
online
training
for
adjudicators.
H
M
So
here
we
are
a
number
of
years
after
the
launch
of
the
emergency
isolation,
support
program
so
of
the
82
percent
of
partially
verified
accounts
that
successfully
applied
for
the
benefits
in
2020.
What
percentage
or
number
of
those
accounts
have
been
complete
or
have
completed
the
verification
of
Eligibility
process.
M
U
M
M
So
the
report
further
describes
programming
edits
that
could
have
led
to
a
fully
automated
emergency
isolation
system.
So,
given
that
we
know
that
AG
found
adjudicators
incorrectly
approved
41
of
84
applications
submitted
by
miners
with
the
officials,
please
share
the
rationale
for
redeploying
132
service
Alberta
staff
as
adjudicators
as
opposed
to
creating
a
fully
automated
approval
process.
H
So
it
was
a
combination
of
those
two
things,
as
I've
indicated,
we're
we're
doing
our
best
to
to
understand
where
we
can
do
better
in
the
future,
and
certainly
that's
one
of
the
the
issues
we're
considering
and
once
again
it
has
to
be
balanced
against
sort
of
the
time
implications
and
the
time
allowances.
Sure.
M
M
H
M
The
24
months
that
applicants
who
are
required
to
retain
support
for
their
eligibility
has
now
passed.
In
fact,
the
Ombudsman
report
from
September
21
at
the
time
noted
that
they
were
already
at
21
months
and
at
24.
Then
that
timeline
would
expire.
So
I
guess
my
question
is
so:
where
did
that
number
come
from?
Does
that
seem
reasonable?
Given
what
was
going
on
and
can
the
officials
explain?
You
know
the
plan
to
recover
funds
that
were
paid
out
again.
M
You
know
you
answered
earlier
The
Minister's
rationale
for
not
doing
that
that
it
would
be
time
consuming
to
go
back
and
try
to
collect
that,
but
I
guess
I'm
trying
to
understand
it
seemed
like
everything
was
stacked
up
not
to
be
able
to
do
this
work
effectively,
sort
of
post
pandemic
or
once
things
settle
down.
I
was
wondering
if
you
could
speak
to
that,
because
I
I
don't
quite
understand
so
we're
getting
the
flag
from
the
Ombudsman
that
raised
some
questions.
M
H
So,
at
the
time
the
decision
was
made,
as
I
indicated
in
in
December
of
2020,
the
the
rationale
for
that
was
really
the
the
cost-benefit
analysis
that
that
had
sort
of
been
undertaken
to
decide
what
next
steps
to
do.
We
had
reached
out
to
a
sample
set
of
folks.
As
indicated
in
the
report,
we
didn't
get
back
sufficient
response
to
that
to
have
a
statistically
significant
response,
so
we
could
extrapolate
that
across
the
population,
so
we
were
deciding
okay.
What
step?
What
step
next
and
at
that
time?
M
That
would
be
great,
so
I
just
want
to
go
back
to
just.
There
have
been
a
number
of
ministers,
so
it's
a
little
bit
confusing
so
I'm
wondering
if
you
could
specifically
tell
us
who
in
government,
made
the
decision
or
approved
the
decision.
It
was
okay,
whatever
language
you
want
to
use
to
not
reclaim
the
public
dollars
that
were
paid
in
error
in
this
program,
so
was
it
who
was
it
specifically,
which
minister
or.
H
M
M
So
I
wanted
to
talk.
I
have
a
question
about
the
ombudsen's
report
and
again
it
goes
into
it
talks
about
specifically
the
auditor
General's
report
and
the
two,
the
two
reports
really
gmash,
so
on
April
6th
of
2020.
We
know
that
there
were
14
085
applicants
who
applied
outside
of
the
14-day
isolation
period
and
they
were
approved.
So
we
already
know
that
the
14-day
isolation
criteria
was
changed
twice
throughout
the
adjudication
period
and
the
April
6
change
removed
the
14-day
isolation
period
altogether.
H
H
H
M
M
L
Thank
you
very
much.
My
questions
are
going
to
be
focused
on
the
smerg
program.
Obviously
the
auditor
general
highlighted
that
potentially
millions
of
dollars
have
been
paid
out
in
error
under
that
program.
I
want
to
know.
When
did
you
first
brief,
the
premier
and
the
appropriate
ministers
that
so
many
people
had
been
paid,
an
error.
H
L
H
H
L
K
H
Emergency
financial
assistance
to
thousands
of
albertans
in
the
past
in
response
to
crises
and
natural
disasters
such
as
floods
and
wildfires.
With
this
in
mind
on
March
18
2020,
the
government
of
Alberta
announced
the
Eis
program.
This
is
a
temporary
program
to
provide
one-time
funding
1146
dollars
for
working
albertans,
who
are
required
to
isolate
by
public
health
guidelines
who
or
who
had
to
take
care
of
a
dependent
who
is
isolating
and
had
no
other
source
of
income
during
this
time
or
had
a
significant
greater
than
50
percent
reduction
in
their
income.
H
The
program
acted
as
a
bridge
until
Financial
supports
from
the
government
of
Canada
became
available,
the
program
out
from
March
25th
2020
to
April
5th
2020
and
provided
approximately
108
million
to
nine
to
108
million
dollars
to
nine
thousand.
Ninety
three
thousand
eight
hundred
and
eighty
seven
albertans,
the
government
of
Canada,
launched
the
Canada
emergency
response
benefits
served
program
on
April
6,
allowing
eligible
Canadians
in
need
of
this
type
of
support
to
apply
for
financial
support.
H
H
H
Working
one
of
the
other
criteria
is
employment,
working
Fuller,
part-time
prior
to
self-assessment
or
quarantine
experiencing
a
total
or
significant
more
than
50
percent
loss
of
income
as
a
result
of
self-isolation,
self-isolation,
quarantine
or
caring
for
a
dependent
due
to
covid-19
unable
to
work
from
home,
well
self-isolating
unable
to
being
unable
to
collect
any
for
any
other
form
of
employer
government
income,
compensation
which
included
employer
sick
benefits.
Employment
Insurance
government
of
Liberty
Income,
Support
programs
assuring
them
for
the
severely
handicapped
or
private
insurance
benefits
being
unable
to
stay
home
for
to
care
for
dependents.
H
R
R
Page
108
of
the
auditor
General's
report
says
that
about
94
000
albertans
receive
benefits
under
this
program
and
that
there
was
an
attempted
verification
of
a
hundred
and
fifty
of
that
900
or
sorry
94
000..
That's
about
one
tenth
of
one
percent
and
of
the
one
tenth
of
one
percent
that
were
actually
attempted
to
be
verified
about
41
responded.
R
H
We
did
work
with
the
corporate
internal
audit
Services
we're
working
with
corporate
internal
audit,
Services
letters
or
requests
letters
requesting
documentation
to
support
eligibility,
as
you
indicated
were
sent
to
150
randomly
selected
recipients.
These
letters
outline
the
program's
eligibility
criteria
and
then
asked
the
recipient
to
submit
confirmation
of
self-isolation
or
caring
for
a
dependent
form
or
confirmation
and
a
confirmation
of
loss
of
income
form
as
referenced.
On
page
108
of
that
report,
the
auditor
general
there
were
respondents
Who,
provided
us
with
incomplete
information.
R
R
H
R
I
never
suggested
that
what
I'm
unders,
what
I'm
suggesting
is,
is
we
paid
over
100
million
of
Alberta
taxpayer
dollars
out
and
what
I
want
to
understand
is
relative
to
that
expenditure
of
taxpayer
dollars?
What
is
the
cost
of
having
a
broader
verification
of
Eligibility
of
those
who
receive
payments
under
the
program?
R
G
G
So
work
is
still
ongoing
now
and
looking
at
another
program
to
do
a
sampling
of
post-payment
verification
process
to
sample
a
cohort
of
of
the
program
is
costing
us
over
almost
two
hundred
thousand
dollars
just
to
do
an
initial
assessment.
So
when
we
look
at
the
the
cost,
benefit
is
looking
at
the
the
culmination
of
the
resources,
the
capacity
and
the
dollars
invested
in
assessing.
When
we've
got
lessons
learned
already
and
trying
to
assess
the
benefit
of
and
the
likelihood
of
collectibility,
based
on
what
we're
seeing
in
the
program.
R
All
right,
just
a
final
question
and
I
appreciate
that
post
payment
verification
is
expensive,
so
going
forward
I
want
to
understand
what
steps,
what
learnings
are
we
going
to
do
to
improve
prepayment
verification,
because
post
payment
verification
is
more
expensive,
so
with
these
programs
going
forward?
How
are
we
strengthening
prepayment
verification.
H
So,
as
indicated,
we
have
had
some
learnings
with
respect
to
this
program
and
has
also
indicated.
Programs
vary
in
terms
of
the
time
that
you
have
to
stand
them
up,
and
so
in
terms
of
Lessons
Learned.
We
certainly
have
understood
that
the
eligibility
criteria
and
the
data
requirements
and
fully
analyzing
those
at
the
front
end
of
the
program
is
one
lesson
learned.
Automating
to
the
extent
we
can
is
certainly
another
lesson
learned
during
the
design
of
the
program.
I
H
I
You
I
I
would
just
add
that
I
I
think
the
the
balance
between
doing
the
the
prepayment
verification
versus
post
payment
verification
also
depends
on
the
overall
design
of
the
program
and
the
intent
and
and
the
objective
there,
and
so
with
with
an
emergency
program
needing
to
act
quickly.
Then
then,
obviously,
some
of
our
key
learnings
have
been
to
do.
You
know
improvements
on
the
post,
payment
verification
side
versus
where
we've
had
a
little
bit
more
time
to
to
pull
some
things
together
in
a
couple
of
other
covid-19
and
Recovery
plan
program.
R
All
right
well
I,
appreciate
that
and
thank
you
and
I
appreciate
the
context,
but
having
said
that,
there,
there
needs
to
be
Improvement
going
forward.
I
hope
that
we
institutionalize
and
learn
from
our
mistakes.
They're
valuable
teachers,
I
appreciate
the
intent
is
good,
but
how
we
do
it
is
important
too
I'll
turn
the
time
over
to
my
friend
MLA
Hunter.
Thank
you.
E
I
was
talking
to
one
legislator
from
another
another
jurisdiction
and,
and
he
described
this
whole
process
and
the
world
was
dealing
with
being
able
to
roll
out
all
these
different
programs
support
programs
because
of
covid,
and
he
once
described
it
as
building
a
ship
while
launching
it
and
I
thought
it
was
apt.
As
you
know,
we
kind
of
looked
at
what
was
happening
even
within
the
government
here
in
Alberta
now
fast
forward.
E
You
know
we
we've
we're
looking
back,
which
is
which
is
fantastic,
that
we're
out
of
it
that
we're
looking
back
is
there?
Has
there
been
any
cross,
jurisdical
cross,
jurisdictional
analysis
of
of
other
jurisdictions
that
have
done
it
right
that
have
done
it
better
and
in
order
to
be
able
to
help
us
I
mean?
Obviously
you
know
we
are
not
going
to
have
to
deal
with
the
same
thing,
but
how?
What
have
we
done?
Any
of
that
cross
jurisdictional
analysis.
E
H
The
the
activity
that's
gone
on
to
date,
as
you
can
see,
has
continued
in
a
variety
of
places,
both
in
terms
of
current
work,
but
also
work
with
respect
to
looking
back
at
these
programs,
including
Samaritans.
So
it's
an
excellent
suggestion,
we're
open
to
all
ideas
to
try
to
do
it
better
next
time,
and
that's
certainly
one
that
will
take
away
and
consider
how
we
could
do
that
in
what
lessons
we
could
learn
from
him.
Hopefully,.
E
We
don't
have
it
next
time,
but
it's
always
important
to
be
prepared.
So
I
guess
my
question
is:
is:
is
there
like
an
international
body?
That's
looking
at
looking
at
Best
Practices
that
you
know
of.
If
there
is,
are
we
going
to
be
able
to
take
part
in
that
from
what
I've
seen
and
I've
I've
tried
to
talk
to
lots
of
different,
and
this
is
all
anecdotal
but
try
to
talk
to
different
jurisdictions,
and
nobody
did
it.
You
know
fantastic,
it
was.
E
It
was
just
tough
as
as
I
said
earlier,
you
know
you're
building
your
ship
as
you're
launching
it.
So
my
you
know
and
I
and
I.
So
that's
the
one
part
point
that
I
want
to
make
the
other
point.
I
wanted
to
a
question
I
wanted
to
ask.
You
is
I,
remember
during
that
time
that
the
NDP
during
every
question
period
were
demanding
that
we
get
it
out
sooner,
that
we
had
pushed
it
out
sooner
and
now
it's
interesting
to
listen
to
them.
E
H
B
V
L
L
F
F
We
look
at
the
benefits
that
were
paid
out
under
smirk.
We
had
670
million
dollars
go
out
in
benefits
to
the
applicants
of
the
program.
We
used
a
four-step
process
that
was
going
to
allow
us
to
have
the
confidence
that
those
funds
were
paid
to
eligible
applicants,
that
four
steps
ends
with
the
post
payment
process
in
that
post
payment
component.
That's
where
we
undertake
to
verify
information
provided
by
applicants.
So
when
the
when
you've
asserted
that
hundreds
of
millions
of
dollars
were
paid
out
incorrectly,
our
post
payment
results.
Don't
support
that
assertion.
So.
L
L
The
question
and
I
I
so
I
will
move
on
then
the
last
guy
who
rejected
the
premise
of
the
question
is
no
longer
around
to
answer
those
questions.
I
might
remind
you.
The
government
chose
not
to
pursue
recollection
of
these
potential
or
even
further
investigate
how
much
money
was
paid
in
error.
Who
made
that
decision.
H
L
F
After
the
third
intake
of
smirk
had
closed,
we
did
some
internal
analysis
to
look
at
a
random
sample
of
those
first
intake
payments
and
then
overall
out
of
the
entire
approved
population,
and
what
we
saw
consistently
in
those
results
is
that
a
high
percentage
in
the
high
80s
were
demonstrating
their
eligibility.
That
was
based
on
the
information
that
the
program
itself
had
collected
as
part
of
the
auditor
General's
recommendation
to
conduct
a
random
sample
of
low
eligibility
applicants,
the
department
or
sorry
low
risk
applicants.
F
The
department
has
been
able
to
demonstrate
that
over
92
percent
of
those
who
applied
to
the
program
were
eligible
for
the
benefits
they
received.
So
the
internal
results
that
have
been
completed
consistently
reinforced
that
the
program
had
a
high
degree
of
eligibility
for
the
benefits
that
were
received.
L
L
F
L
So
the
auditor
general
and
his
report
identified
that
there
was
five
hundred
thousand
dollars
already
collected
at
the
time
that
he
wrote
his
so
you've
doubled
that
to
a
million
you've
got
54
million
left
to
go,
give
or
take.
When
will
the
people
of
Alberta
get
that
money
back?
How
much
of
that
is
even
recoverable?
L
L
F
L
F
Perhaps
it
goes
to
the
second
part
of
what
I
believed
your
question
was
going
to
be
in
terms
of
the
recoverability
rate.
So
when
you
look
at
a
cost-benefit
analysis
of
this
nature,
you
you
do
want
to
take
a
look
at
whether
or
not
the
funds
that
you're
going
to
be
able
or
that
you're
going
to
be
pursuing.
Are
you
going
to
be
able
to
recover
them?
For
example,
if
a
business
has
closed
its
doors,
those
are
funds
that
you
may
not
be
able
to
recover,
but
you
go
through
the
process
with
them.
L
F
Have
two
components
to
that:
the
first
is
going
to
be
completing
our
post
payment
activities,
which
is
the
recommendation
from
the
auditor
general,
which
the
department
has
agreed
to
comply
with
the
second
component
of
that.
Well,
that
what's
the
timeline
for
completing
that
our
expectations
for
end
of
March
end
of
March,
okay,
the
second
component
to
that
is
an
evaluation
of
the
program
that
will
then
further
detail
some
of
the
other
components
of
the
program,
and
when
will
that
be
made
available.
A
timeline
for
that
has
not
yet
been
established.
L
L
V
V
Just
listening
to
about
a
lot
of
ineligibilities
I
think
that
people
were
ineligible
and
so
I
just
want
you
to
look
at
page
108
and
discuss
that
how
the
government
corporate
internal
audit
was,
which
was
conducted
from
May
2020
until
February
2022
to
assess
the
controls
on
the
eligibility,
the
eligibility
of
the
benefits,
payment,
processing
and
program
delivery
processes.
So
I
heard
those
tough
numbers
over
50
million
dollars
that
somehow
that
that
money
was
not
eligible.
But
when
were
these
rescroft
ineligibility
identified,
though
yes.
H
Thank
you
for
the
question.
I
think
it
is
important
to
reflect
for
a
moment
what
it
was
like
over
the
past
two
years.
During
this
unprecedented
time,
the
Department
officials
were
conducting
various
covid
recovery
programs
such
as
the
critical
worker
benefit
program,
the
Alberta
jobs.
Now
the
Workers
Compensation
Board
premium
support
in
addition
to
resolving
issues
such
as
issuing
tax
slips
for
the
Eis
program,
the
post
payment
eligibility
verification
audit
was
but
one
of
many
priorities.
The
department
has
been
leading
and
working
on.
H
As
noted
in
the
oag
report,
the
audit,
the
audit
identified
indicators
of
risk
payments
to
ineligible
recipients,
the
process
with
corporate
internal
audit
Services
was
complex
and
involved
the
Auditors
requesting
and
assessing
information
from
the
former
Departments
of
Labor
and
immigration
and
service
Alberta
on
the
program.
In
addition
to
reaching
out
to
the
randomly
selected
benefit
recipients.
As
per
the
process,
the
finding
recommendations
from
cias
were
shared
with
the
Department
management
to
confirm
their
accuracy
and
to
ensure
the
department
agreed
with
them,
based
on
all
of
the
information
gathered
and
assessed.
V
Well,
thank
you
and,
and
thank
you
for
your
clear
answers.
I
guess
but
again
the
question
is
these
recommendations
were
issued
at
certain
date
and
why
these
recommendations
issued
earlier
in
the
audit
to
allow
for
implementation
prior
to
April
22
eligibility
deadline
that
you
didn't
follow.
Those
deadlines.
H
V
H
H
E
Thank
you
and
through
the
chair
on
page
91
and
92
of
the
oag
report,
the
oej
oag
has
recommended
verifying
the
eligibility
of
a
provesburg
applications.
You
stated
in
that
report
that
you
are
conducting
a
sampling
of
approved
applications
deemed
to
be
of
lower
risk
and
that
work
is
expected
to
be
completed
by
March
31st
2023.
H
The
department
is
complying
with
the
oag
recommendation
to
complete
post
payment
processes
on
approved
applications,
as
you
mentioned
by
the
end
of
the
fiscal
year.
As
it
already
indicated,
the
initial
results
are
that
approximately
20
92
percent
were
eligible
for
the
program
as
part
of
that
process
we're
completing
the
verification
eligibility.
The
department
is
sampling
and
is
expected
to
be
done
that
by
as
I
indicated,
March
31st,
2023,
okay.
F
Scott,
thank
you
Deputy.
Thank
you,
member
for
the
question.
So
there
are
a
number
of
factors
that
we
look
at
when
we
identify
in
applications
risk
level,
and
that
would
include
whether
or
not
the
bank
account
being
used
by
the
applicant
was
in
Province
or
not.
So
if
it
was
an
in-province
bank
account,
we
would
identify
them
as
lower
risk.
We
would
also
look
at
the
revenues
that
they
were
reporting
as
part
of
the
application
process.
F
F
You
want
to
get
the
most
out
of
the
effort
you're
going
to
put
into
it,
so
we
identify
those
that
were
highest
risk
and
we
pursued
collecting
information
from
them
to
support
their
application
and
determine
whether
or
not
they
were
in
fact
eligible
and,
as
the
deputy
had
indicated
earlier,
what
we
saw
through
that
process
of
the
highest
risk.
Half
of
them
were
eligible.
D
Thank
you
so
much
I
see
on
page
14
of
the
annual
report
that
the
total
cost
for
the
program
was
626
I'm.
Sorry,
626.4
million
with
these
funds
going
on
to
support
nearly
40
000
businesses
and
organizations
that
collectively
employ
more
than
300
000
people.
Also
detailed
on
page
20
of
the
report
is
the
fact
that
covid-19
had
a
negative
impact
on
women's
economic
participation,
in
particular,
so
I'm
happy
to
see
that
this
funding
was
realized
to
support
female
owned
businesses
across
Alberta
and
within
my
home
constituency
of
cameras.
D
H
As
you've
indicated,
the
smoking
program
provided
approximately
670
million
to
more
than
48
48
000
organizations
that
collectively
employ
more
than
345
000
people
in
Alberta
program
analysis,
since
that
time
has
indicated
that
the
businesses
that
most
utilize,
the
funding
included
the
following
accommodation
and
Food
Services,
arts
and
entertainment
and
Recreation
retail
trade
and
personal
services.
As
expected,
these
types
of
businesses,
including
food
retail
and
personal
services,
were
most
significantly
impacted
at
the
onset
of
the
pandemic
and
also
comprise
a
significant
part
of
the
small
businesses
in
Alberta,
which
this
program
was
intended
to
address.
F
D
Okay,
so
moving
on
now
in
terms
of
application,
I
was
impressed
to
see
on
pages,
18
and
19
of
the
annual
report.
Just
how
quickly
and
effectively
this
merg
program
was
rolled
out.
These
funds
played
a
critical
role
in
keeping
thousands
of
small
businesses,
many
of
them
women
owned
afloat.
How
many
applications
were
you
initially
projecting,
and
do
you
have
a
figure
on
the
percentage
of
small
and
medium
Enterprises
that
were
aware
of
the
program.
H
So,
in
terms
of
the
initial
projections
we
projected
as
many
as
38
000
businesses
and
organizations
would
apply
for
the
program
and
this
closely
matches
the
number
of
organizations
approved
in
the
first
intake
of
about
42
000.
to
support
building
awareness
of
the
program
itself.
The
department
communicated
and
marketed
the
program
through
a
variety
of
methods,
including
through
news
releases,
social
media
promotions
and
business
associations
such
as
the
Alberta
Chamber
of
Commerce
and
the
Canadian
Federation
of
Internet
businesses.
H
B
Okay,
very
good.
Thank
you
very
much,
honorable
members,
thanks
to
the
ministry
of
jobs,
economy
and
Northern
development
for
the
participation
responding
to
committee
members
questions
if
there
was
any
questions
to
be
responded
to
in
writing
that
were
requested
during
the
meeting
we
asked
that
those
be
responded
to
and
writing
within
30
days
and
honorable
members,
my
apologies
I
had
misread
the
Run
of
this
particular
meeting.
B
It
is
different
and
a
bit
distinct
from
our
normal
meetings
in
that
we're
not
doing
the
three
minutes
for
this
special
meeting.
We
have
these
folks
next
week
anyway.
So
if
there's
any
questions
for
written
follow-up,
we
can
do
that
at
that
time.
So
we'll
move
on
to
our
next
presenters,
we'll
give
Justice
officials
a
little
bit
of
time
to
get
settled
in
here.
B
A
A
A
B
B
B
Gathered
then-
and
we
will
return
to
table
folks-
we
had
that
was
about
three
minutes,
so
you
know
only
50
off
what
the
goal
was
very
good.
Let's
welcome
our
guests
from
the
ministry
of
Justice
who
are
here
to
address
this
Justice
and
solicitor
general
annual
report
2122
and
the
jsg
office,
the
auditor
general
outstanding
recommendations.
This
is
a
normal
run
meeting
folks.
So
the
opening
remarks
are
10
minutes.
Ag
remarks
are
five
and
then
the
rotations
are
fifteen.
U
Thank
you
very
much
chair.
My
name
is
Frank
Bosco
I'm,
the
deputy
Minister
of
Justice
joining
me
at
the
table
today
are
Mr
Marlon,
Grant
assistant
Deputy,
minister
of
public
security.
My
name
is
Kim
Goddard
at
the
end
she's,
the
assistant,
Deputy
Minister,
Alberta,
Crown
prosecution
service.
Beside
me
to
my
right
is
Mr
Brad
Smith
assistant,
Deputy,
Minister
and
SFO
financial
services
and
then
to
my
far
left
is
Mr
Alex
Thompson
he's
the
acting
assistant,
Deputy
minister
of
strategy,
support
and
integrated
initiatives
for
the
purposes
of
this
meeting.
U
For
that
Division
I
will
refer
to
it
as
ssii
and
joining
me
in
the
gallery.
We
have
Ms
Suzanne
stationoff
assistant,
Deputy,
minister
of
Legal
Services
Ms
Tracy
where's,
Jack
assistant
Deputy,
minister
of
court
and
Justice
Services
Ms
Fiona
Lavoy
assistant
Deputy,
minister
of
Correctional
Services
Mr
Brad,
Wells,
Senior,
Financial,
Officer
financial
services
and
Mr
Tom
Petty
assistant
Deputy,
minister
of
strategic
Services,
seniors
community
and
Social
Services
I
like
to
begin
with
a
housekeeping
note
that
during
this
discussion,
any
reference
to
ministry
will
mean
the
ministry
of
justice
and
solicitor
general.
U
Our
ministry's
mandate
is
to
ensure
that
the
justice
and
law
enforcement
systems
are
fair,
relevant,
accessible
and
reflective
of
Alberta's
values
and
that
albertans
enjoy
safe
and
secure
communities,
divisions
work
with
our
partners
in
law
enforcement,
legal
aid,
the
Judiciary
and
many
others
to
ensure
this
complex
system
functions
efficiently
and
that
programs
are
delivered
effectively.
The
department
also
provides
legislative
and
legal
services
to
the
whole
of
government
in
2021-22,
jsg
spent
more
than
1.4
billion
to
deliver
its
mandate.
U
This
was
due
to
the
new
Collective
Agreement
bargaining
agreement
between
the
RCMP
and
the
public
safety
Canada,
and
the
increases
for
the
police
funding
model,
which
puts
more
Frontline
officers
in
our
rural
communities.
It's
important
to
note.
The
ministry
did
receive
144
million
in
year
above
its
initial
published
budget,
to
address
fiscal
challenges,
the
most
prominent
of
which
were
related
to
the
RCMP
pay,
raise
and
Correctional
Services
over
time.
In
terms
of
Revenue,
the
ministry
generated
346.7
million
in
2122.
This
was
up
40
million
or
13.1
percent
versus
the
prior
year.
U
It
was,
however,
68.3
million,
or
about
19.7
percent
lower
than
budgeted.
The
decreased
revenues
are
mainly
a
result
of
a
64.2
million
decrease
in
fines
and
surcharges.
This
decrease
was
due
to
lower
than
anticipated
payments
of
traffic
safety
act,
tickets
and
Associated
victim
of
crime
and
Public
Safety
surcharges.
U
Fine
revenues
have
rebounded
slightly
from
pandemic
lows,
but
remain
under
pre-pandemic
levels.
Before
speaking
to
the
ministry's
outstanding
audit
recommendations,
I'll
provide
a
brief
overview
of
the
ministry's
divisions,
starting
with
Ministry
Support
Services
support
services.
True
to
its
name,
supports
the
work
right
across
the
ministry.
This
includes
corporate
functions
such
as
Finance
procurement,
Fleet
and
Facilities
Management
in
2021-22,
Ministry,
Support
Services
actual
expenses
were
24.7
million
posting
a
deficit
of
455
000
as
a
result
of
costs
associated
to
the
Alberta
police,
Alberta
Provincial,
Police
study,
contract
resolution
and
Court
Administration
Services.
U
The
next
division
I'll
discuss
is
this
one
that
supports
the
courts.
It
includes
resolution
Services,
provincial
civil
claims,
Justice
digital
and
the
courts
in
2021-22.
The
division
spent
188.6
million
to
support
the
operation
of
alvarea
Courts
and
bring
in
new
services.
So
it
is
easier
and
faster
for
albertans
to
access
the
justice
system
anytime
anywhere.
U
This
was
5.6
million
more
or
about
a
3.1
percent
increase
compared
to
the
prior
year.
Moving
on
to
Legal
Services
Division,
it
is
mainly
responsible
for
providing
strategic
legal
advice
to
all
government
Ministries
and
representing
them
in
courts
and
tribunals.
It
is
also
responsible
for
drafting
government
bills,
regulations
and
orders
and
councils
through
its
legislative
Council
Office
in
2021-22
legal
services
spent
41.2
million
about
1
million
over
the
initial
budget
and
seven
percent
lower
than
the
previous
fiscal
year.
The
reduced
spending
was
mainly
due
to
lower
Staffing
levels.
U
X
is
Justice,
Services
Division,
and
this
division
includes
key
areas
like
the
office
of
the
chief
medical
examiner,
Legal,
Aid
Alberta
office
of
the
public
guardian
and
trustee,
and
the
family
support
order
services
in
2021-22
Justice
Services
spent
132.7
million,
which
was
27.3
million
or
17.1
percent
lower
than
2021
and
21.8
million
under
budget.
This
crease
with
this
decrease,
was
mainly
due
to
a
19
million
dollar
reduction
in
the
grant
to
Legal
Aid
Alberta,
as
demand
has
slowed
with
court
closures
during
the
pandemic.
U
Moving
to
public
security
division.
This
area
is
responsible
for
a
wide
range
of
vital
programs
aimed
at
keeping
albertans
safe
and
secure.
It
is
also
it
also
includes
the
contract
for
Provincial
Police
and
services.
Municipal,
policing
grants,
police
oversight
and
Alberta's
serious
incident
response
team
and
sheriffs
in
2021-22.
The
division
spent
631.9
million,
which
is
17.5
percent
more
than
the
537.7
million
spent
in
2020
to
2021
and
it's
107
million
above
its
initial
budget.
U
The
deficit
was
due
in
year
to
the
retroactive
pay
raises
for
the
RCMP
and
in
the
RCMP
in
the
Provincial
Police
Services
agreement
now
for
Correctional
Services.
This
provides
secure,
custody
of
Court,
sentenced
and
remanded
adults
and
young
persons.
It
also
provides
court-ordered
Community
Supervision
of
individuals,
both
free
and
post-sentence,
in
2021-22
Correctional
Services
spent
293.4
million,
which
is
4.6
million
or
1.6
percent
more
than
the
previous
year,
but
30.2
million
above
its
initial
budget.
This
deficit
was
largely
driven
by
overtime
needed
to
cover
vacancies.
U
In
its
24
hour
seven
day
a
week
operation,
the
ministry
is
exploring
strategies
to
facilitate
a
reduction
in
future
overtime
expenses.
The
ministry
also
includes
the
Alberta
Human
Rights
Commission,
which
has
a
nominal
budget
of
6.9
million
and
posted
a
surplus
of
1.5
million,
mainly
due
to
Staffing
vacancies.
U
Finally,
I'll
talk
briefly
about
the
ministry's
response
to
recommendations
made
by
the
auditor
general
in
relation
to
its
audits
of
the
public
of
the
office
of
the
public
guardian
and
trustee
the
victims
of
crime
fund
and
the
Alberta
Crown
prosecution.
Services.
The
2013
auditor
general
auditor,
general
audits
into
the
office
of
the
public
guardian
and
trustees,
control
systems
and
management
of
client
trusts
resulted
in
five
recommendations
that
have
been
accepted
and
implemented
in
response
to
these
recommendations.
U
Actions
included
implementing
a
risk-based
file
review
system,
bringing
in
new
controls
to
enhance
reviews
and
approvals
of
client
funds,
completing
a
full
review
of
existing
policies
to
ensure
they
address
client
risks
and
developing
multiple
new
checklists
to
approve
client
file
documentation.
While
we
continue
to
work
on
the
fifth
recommendation
to
improve
and
follow
policies
and
procedures
in
2016,
the
auditor
general
recommended
the
development
of
public
reporting
of
a
business
plan
with
measurable
desired
results
for
the
victims
of
crime
and
Public
Safety
fund.
U
The
ministry
has
made
several
changes
to
the
service
delivery
model
and
met
with
the
office
of
the
auditor
general
in
November
of
2022,
to
provide
an
update
on
this
recommendation
and
a
plan
forward.
The
oag
and
the
department
agreed
to
continued
meetings
throughout
the
year
to
provide
status
updates
on
the
implementation
of
the
new
governance
model.
There
were
three
recommendations
for
the
Alberta
Crown
prosecution
service
in
the
June
21
audit
report.
U
The
Alberta
Crown
prosecution
service
has
taken
action
on
all
of
these
recommendations
and
the
auditor
general
is
currently
assessing
the
implementation
of
the
recommendations
we
have
made
vast
improvements
to
the
first
instance
bail
hearing
process,
with
more
than
98
percent
of
bail
hearings
being
held
within
the
first
24
hours.
Triaged
files
are
being
tracked
internally,
as
recommended
with
the
continued
rollout
of
pre-charge
assessment
is
anticipated,
matters
stayed
or
withdrawn
due
a
lack
of
prosecution
resources
will
Decline
and
eventually
may
not
be
necessary.
U
B
N
Opening
remarks,
and
for
everyone
for
also
let
me
Begin
by
congratulating
you
on
your
appointment
to
the
bench
I'll
get
into
the
report,
as
you
mentioned
in
your
opening
remarks.
That
minister
is
there
to
ensure
safe
and
resilient
communities,
and
page
nine
of
Daniel
report
says
and
I
got
just
a
solicitor
general
helps
ensure
that
all
albertans
can
live
in
safe
and
resilient
communities
while
having
access
to
Affair
in
innovative
system.
It
shows
that
the
rule
of
law
is
upheld
and
government
undertakings
are
administered
according
to
the
law.
N
Much
has
been
made
of
the
illegal
Goods
blockade.
We
are
a
French
element
blockaded
over
butter
for
weeks
and
even
conspired
to
kill
RCMP
officer
and
much
has
been
made
of
the
new
premier
attempt
to
give
MSD
to
some
individuals.
So
my
first
question
is
given
that
this
annual
reports
cover
the
period
of
good
could
block
it.
N
U
U
The
question
the
Coos
blockade
was
a
very
unfortunate
incident
in
Alberta's
history.
I'm
not
sure
I
can
provide
an
answer
with
respect
to
the
impact
on
the
overall
cost
of
the
economy,
and
we
wouldn't
have
that
information.
I
can
turn
to
both
ADM
Smith
and
ADM
de
Grant
to
provide
some
information
with
respect
to
the
costs
that
the
department
incurred
in
terms
of
providing
Sheriff's
services
to
deal
with
the
blockade
in
terms
of
what
did
the
government
do
wrong
and
what
what
went
right?
Those
are
fairly
in
difficult
questions
to
answer.
U
U
In
terms
of
the
government's
response.
It
seemed
to
be
very
appropriate
in
terms
of
relying
heavily
on
the
advice
from
the
RCMP
as
to
how
to
manage
what
was
potentially
a
very
and,
as
we
saw
with
the
charges
that
have
been
laid,
a
very
dangerous
situation,
but
with
that
I'm
going
to
turn
it
over
to
ADM
to
Grant
first
and
then
I'll
turn
it
over
to
ADM
Smith's.
First
semesters.
J
J
V
N
N
Political
decision
making
was
influencing
any
strategic
policing
priority
and
what
we
have
heard
at
this
committee
before
that
elected
officials
demanded
a
light
touch
on
enforcement
before
courts,
when
all
the
marches
were
happening
in
Calgary
and
elsewhere.
So
what
I
want
to
ask
is
what
was
the
political
Direction
on
this.
U
Thank
you
for
the
question
and
I
will
provide
my
answer
and
then
I'm
going
to
turn
it
to
ADM
Marlin
to
Grant
as
well,
because
he
is
as
the
head
of
the
public
safety
group
overseeing
the
sheriffs
and
the
one
that
isn't
mainly
in
contact
with
the
RCP.
He
can
provide
some
further
detail
in
terms
of
the
briefings
that
took
place
because
of
the
serious
nature
of
it.
There
were
many
briefings
at
all
levels,
and
so
it
involved
many
of
the
Departments
everywhere
from
the
premier's
office
through
to
the
justice
department
into
labor
into
I'm.
U
Trying
I
can't
remember
all
of
the
Departments
that
are
Transportation
infrastructure,
anyone
that
would
any
of
the
Departments
that
would
have
been
impacted
by
that
blockade
in
terms
of
the
directions.
While
there
was
information
being
provided
up,
and
there
was
as
in
any
of
these
types
of
situations,
the
those
that
govern
have
an
interest
in
what
is
being
done
and
how
it's
being
done
in
these
circumstances.
This
was
an
operation
that
was
very
much
led
by
the
RCMP
The
Province
was
providing
support
through
the
sheriffs,
we're
also
providing
certain
support
through
infrastructure.
U
So,
for
example,
infrastructure
was
able
to
secure
an
area
to
try
and
remove
the
protesters
off
the
highway
into
an
area
where
they
could
continue
to
conduct
a
lawful
protest,
but
throughout
it
was
a
situation
where
it
was
the
RCMP
as
the
command
center,
supported
by
the
the
sheriffs
and
supported
by
the
province
through
infrastructure
and
other
items
to
provide
the
necessary
services
to
try
and
deal
with
a
situation
that
was
very
fluid
and
fast
moving.
But
with
that
sir
I
will
turn
it
over
to
Mr
Grant.
Thank.
W
You
Deputy,
thank
you,
sir.
During
the
entirety
of
the
Coots
blockade,
I
was
the
primary
very
point
of
contact
for
the
commanding
officer
in
the
criminal
operations
officer
and
those
in
the
the
highest
levels
of
command
of
the
RCB
that
were
responsible
for
this.
As
a
consequence,
I
had
virtually
daily
interactions
with
them.
I
can
I
can
speak
to
the
nature
of
those
interactions,
and
that
was
really
an
information
gathering
process
from
myself
to
be
able
to
adequately
inform
the
The
Briefing
processes
that
the
deputy
Minister
outlined.
W
I
will
be
able
to
tell
you
quite
clearly
that
I'm
very
careful
with
a
previous
background
in
law
enforcement
myself
to
understand
my
role
as
a
government.
Official
now
is
not
to
direct
police
operations
and
I
was
very
cautious
to
ensure
that
nothing
that
I
said
to
the
commanding
officer
or
the
criminal
operations
officer
was
a
direction
in
terms
of
operations.
E
M
Sure
this
very
much
is
in
scope,
and
this
is
just
a
matter
of
public
record.
This
was
publicly
reported,
I
think
I,
remember
a
lovely
photo
of
the
member
and
maybe
a
grandchild
at
the
blockade.
This
is
public
information.
This
is
related
to
the
annual
report
and
it's
also
related
to
the
issue
that
we're
talking
about
right
now,
so
it
very
much
is
in.
N
Thank
you,
sir.
What
I
really
wanted
to
ask
the
department.
Is
there?
Was
there
any
direction
given
by
the
department
to
the
executive
Council
to
mlas
weather,
to
attend
this
illegal
blockade
or
not,
and
when
mla's
do
attend?
That
complicates
the
politics
of
it.
How
it
impacts
government
respond
response
to
this
very
critical
situation.
That's
why
I
was
Raising
that
question.
U
Thank
you
for
the
question.
I
I.
The
best
way
I
can
answer
that
is
mlas
and
ministers
can
do
what
they
would
like
and
if
they
wanted
to
attend
there,
that
is
their.
They
have
that
ability
for
us
as
a
department.
We
basically
provide
advice
and
information,
and
we
work
to
with
our
you
know,
police
stakeholders
to
deal
with
that
particular
incident.
So
the
information
flows
up,
and
so
the
ministers
and
the
premier
would
very
much
know
what
is
going
on.
U
N
Let's
move
on
to
the
next
question
government
also
passed
Bill
one,
the
critical
infrastructure
and
Defense
Act
in
June
of
2020
and
the
ACT
on
Government
website.
It
says,
but
it's
there
to
protect
essential
infrastructure
from
damage
or
interference
caused
by
blockage,
protests
or
similar
activities,
which
can
cause
significant
Public,
Safety,
social,
economic
and
environmental
consequences.
N
U
So
the
way,
thank
you.
Thank
you
for
the
question.
The
way
that
act
works
is
it
basically
sets
out
the
ability
for
the
police
to
lay
charges,
and
that
is
the
essence
of
that
bill,
and
so
it
comes
to
the
discretion
of
the
law
enforcement
as
to
whether
or
not
they're
going
to
lay
charges.
I
cannot
remember
all
of
the
charges
that
were
laid
during
that
particular
period,
but
that
act
would
certainly
have
been
available
to
the
law
enforcement
to
use
to
basically
as
one
of
the
tools
to
bring
an
end
to
the
blockade.
U
N
C
Thank
you
very
much
Madam
chair
under
23p
speaking
to
items
that
are
not
under
the
purview
of
this
committee.
You
know,
I
haven't
heard
a
single
reference
to
a
page
number
and
a
business
plan.
Recommendations
by
the
other
reports,
I
mean
the
whole
purpose
of
pack
is
really
talk
about
the
implementation
of
policy.
That's
before
us
and
to
be
quite
honest,
many
of
the
questions
and
the
Preamble
that
The
Honorable
member
is
talking
about,
would
be
better
suited
for
question
period.
And
I
would
maybe
ask
that
yeah
who
has
questions
like
that?
C
I
mean
questions
periods
coming
up
here
in
a
couple
weeks
and
you
can
save
those
for
now,
but
I
would
just
maybe
perhaps
put
forth
that
The
Honorable
membership
focus
on
the
business
at
hand
and
and
just
deal
specifically
with
the
business
plan.
The
report,
the
auditor
general
recommendations
and
stay
true
to
the
focus
and
the
priorities
that
albertans
are
wanting
us
to
discuss
at
PAC.
Thank
you.
M
Thank
you
so
I,
don't
believe.
This
is
a
point
of
order.
You
can
recall
earlier
in
this
questioning
block
the
member
reference
page,
nine
of
the
annual
report
and
then
quoted
that's
page
specifically.
So
very
much
is
I.
Think
he's
given
some
context
about
his
constituents.
As
we
hear
from
many
members
that
talk
about
their
communities,
for
example,
cameras.
So
it's
just
context.
So
this
is
an
appointed.
N
Thank
you
too.
I
was
talking
about
how
people
were
standing,
many
living
in
my
riding
as
well.
So
let
me
just
get
to
the
question
that
was
there
any
analysis
done
any
review
done
at
the
department
level
that
what
could
have
been
done
differently?
What
should
we
do
should
similar
kind
of
block
it
happens
again.
Was
there
some
postmodern
after
the
incident.
U
U
I
will
turn
it
over
to
ADM
The
Grand
in
a
moment
here
in
any
of
these
types
of
serious
situations,
there
is
always
work
that
is
done,
whether
it's
a
formal
after
action
review
or
more
something
dealing
with
specific
aspects
of
the
particular
incident
where
we
will
do
a
deeper
dive
to
see
what
we
got
right
and
what
we
did
not,
but
I
will
ask
Marlon,
ADM
de
Grant
to
basically
provide
a
bit
of
insight
as
to
how
that
plays
out.
Thank
you.
W
Thank
you
very
much
Deputy.
Thank
you
very
much
for
the
question
in
terms
of
after
action
analysis
on
this
there's,
of
course,
the
operational
piece
which
is
the
purview
of
the
RCMP,
and
while
our
sheriffs
were
involved
in
that
our
sheriffs
were
succlanted
under
the
rcmp's
command
structure
and
worked
at
their
at
their
command
and
control
during
the
event.
W
W
U
N
U
At
this
point,
I
would
have
to
say
that
the
intention
is
not
there,
but
it
is
something
we
can
take
back
as
a
question
as
to
what
we
should
do.
It
would
be
one.
It
would
be
a
matter
that,
because
this
is
we're
sharing
out
information
that
is
fairly
sensitive,
we
want
to
seriously
investigate
that.
The.
N
Question
relating
to
Legal
Service
division,
it
says:
I
got
the
division,
provide
legal,
related,
strategic,
wise
and
representation
to
the
government
of
all
world
and
sports
Administration
Administration,
a
public
affairs
according
to
the
law.
I
know
that
we
have
asked
for
injunction
with
respect
to
the
good
blockades
for
this
government
didn't
pursue
it.
Many
others
in
legal
Community
asked
for
that.
Was
there
an
analysis
done?
Was
there
any
advice
given
to
the
government
why
that
was
refused
by
the
government?
Why
government
didn't
pursue
the
injunction?
Was
it
not
a
good
remedy?
U
N
U
In
terms
of
these
taking
those
types
of
actions
that
would
have
been
at
that
would
have
been
a
combination
of
working
with
the
stakeholder
police
services
and
the
political
level,
but
it
would
have
primarily
been
as
to
whether
or
not
it
fit
within
the
overall
strategy
that
is
being
conducted
to
try
and
deal
with
the
blockade.
At
the
time.
N
B
D
Thank
you,
madam
chair.
Under
red
tape,
red
tape,
bogs
down
our
job
creators,
reduces
investment
and
makes
it
more
difficult
for
albertans
to
access
our
justice
system.
On
page
19,
you
mentioned
that
your
department
has
been
working
on
reducing
regulatory
requirements.
Can
you
expand
on
where
you
were
able
to
find
the
largest
regulatory
savings.
U
U
We
are
basically
an
apartment
that
imposes
obligations
on
people,
so
red
tape
reduction
is
a
bit
more
difficult
for
us
to
do.
Having
said
that,
we
did
look
for
ways
that
we
could,
through
our
policies
or
forms
and
other
aspects,
reduce
the
burden
or
the
work
that
was
required
for
an
Alberta
to
engage
within
our
system,
but
I
will
turn
it
over
to
acting
ADM
Thompson
to
basically
run
through
what
we've
done
in
terms
of
RTR
within
the
department
during
that
period.
Thank.
X
You
thank
you,
deputy,
and
thank
you
for
the
question.
Alberta
Justice's,
most
significant
reduction
in
the
number
of
regulatory
requirements
was
related
to
the
judicature.
Act
forms
are
updated,
simplified
or
eliminated,
and
updates
were
made
to
several
Associated
regulations.
Apart
from
the
count
reductions,
the
largest
impact
of
red
tape
reduction
related
work
was
in
the
work
done
for
our
Justice
digital
initiative
to
ease
Alberta's
access
to
the
courts.
X
While
this
did
not
have
a
significant
impact
on
the
number
of
regulatory
requirements,
the
changes
made
those
requirements
easier
to
meet
by
allowing
for
easier
access,
such
as
online
applications,
rather
than
requiring
a
person
to
attend
the
courthouse
in
person.
This
is
antips.
This
is
anticipated
to
significantly
reduce
the
amount
of
hours
that
are
spent
by
both
respondents
to
the
system
I.E.
X
Justice
digital
is
modernizing
our
justice
system
and
reducing
red
tape
through
user
cut
through
new
user-friendly
court
and
Justice
Services
available
online.
In
2122,
we
had
six
new
digital
services
that
were
phased
in.
These
were
the
traffic
ticket
digital
service,
which
eliminated
over
9
500
in-person
Courthouse
visits,
King's
bench
filing
digital
service,
which
which
has
saved
15
000
hours
of
clerk
time
in
its
first
year,
which
frees
up
staff
to
address
other
priority
areas.
X
Our
department
is
also
implemented
regulatory
reforms
to
reduce
red
tape
when
it
comes
to
court
matters
and
our
maintenance
enforcement
program,
we've
implemented
a
12.7
12.1
percent
reduction
in
these
areas
alone.
For
instance,
there
have
been
legislative
and
Regulatory
reforms
in
the
following
areas:
the
Provincial
Court
of
Alberta
Court
offices
regulation
was
repealed.
Justices
of
the
peace
compensation
commission
regulation
regulation
for
the
2021
commission
was
the
benefit
of
a
streamlined
process,
provincial
judges
and
Masters
and
Chambers
compensation.
X
D
Let's
move
to
Rapid
now.
Excuse
me
on
page
20
of
the
report,
part
of
me.
It
discusses
the
implementation
of
rapid
response
initiative
as
part
of
your
Department's
goal
of
making
the
justice
system
faster,
fairer
and
more
effective.
Can
you
expound
on
what
the
average
response
time
was
before
and
after
the
implementation
of
Rapid
how
much
this
decrease
can
be
attributed
to
Rapid
versus
other
initiatives
that
your
department
has
implemented?
How
many
calls
did
fish
and
wildlife
and
Alberta
Sheriff's
response
to
in
2021,
and
do
you
expect
this
number
to
increase
in
future
years?.
U
W
Thank
you
very
much
for
the
question
at
this
point
in
time.
We're
actually
asking
the
RCMP
to
work
on
actually
generating
an
analysis
of
call
response
times
both
before
and
after
the
implementation
of
of
rapid,
so
I
don't
actually
have
an
ability
to
give
you
a
measure
of
increase
or
decrease
in
that
I
can't
tell
you
in
answer
to
so.
Obviously
it
couldn't
attribute
anything
at
this
point
in
time.
I
can
tell
you
an
answer
to
your
question.
W
The
number
of
calls
in
2021
there
were
38
rapid
calls
that
were
responded
to
by
our
fish
and
wildlife
enforcement
Services
officers
to
support
the
RCMP,
and
they
were
also
in
as
part
of
phase
two
of
that
same
rapid
implementation.
There
were
963
impaired
drivers
processed
by
our
sheriffs,
either
through
criminal
code
sanctions
or
through
the
immediate
roadside
sanctions,
which
of
course
is
calls
that
would
have
ordinarily
went
to
RCP
officers
in
the
rural
area
to
deal
with
as
a
consequence.
W
Well,
it's
difficult
to
attribute
overall
response
time
drops
the
RCMP
probably
respond
to
half
a
million
to
three
quarters
of
a
million
calls
on
average
in
Europe
is
as
a
guesstimate
on
my
part.
It
would
be
really
important
to
highlight
the
in
those
instances
those
specific
times
when
they
are
where
the
sheriffs
were
able
to
deploy
and
were
able
to
back
up
our
CNP
officers.
The
impacts,
of
course,
would
be
significant
to
those
involved
in
those
incidents.
W
In
terms
of
do
we
expect
this
number
to
increase
or
decrease
in
future
years.
I
can
tell
you
that
since
2021,
we've
actually
seen
a
marked
decline
in
the
number
of
referrals
on
to
the
fish
and
wildlife
enforcement
Services
officers,
while
we've
seen
a
significant,
you
know
uptake
in
the
number
of
impaired
driving
charges
that
were
taken
away
from
the
RCMP
through
our
Sheriff's
Highway
Patrol
folks.
W
P
U
X
And
thank
you
for
the
question.
There's
many
factors
that
influence
the
crime
rate,
including
whether
or
not
a
crime
is
reported,
the
availability
of
resources
of
individual
police
services
or
departmental
priorities
and
policies.
For
example,
certain
crimes
such
as
impaired
driving
and
Drug
offenses
can
be
significantly
affected
by
enforcement
practices
of
the
individual
Police
Services,
with
some
police
services
devoting
more
resources
to
those
specific
types
of
crimes.
X
Some
police
services
may
also
rely
on
Municipal,
bylaws
or
provincial
statutes
to
respond
to
minor
offenses
such
as
Mischief
or
disturbing
the
piece
crime
rates
can
be
affected
by
changes
in
age,
demographics,
economic
conditions,
neighborhood
characteristics,
the
emergence
of
new
technologies,
albertans
attitudes
toward
crime
and
other
risky
Behavior.
It
is
difficult
to
identify
one
specific
reason
why
crime
rates
decreased.
However,
it
is
important
to
note
that
the
start
of
covid-19
in
March
2020,
most
of
Alberta's
population,
was
spending
more
time
at
home
and
many
businesses
closed
or
turned
to
new
methods
of
operation.
X
U
Thank
you
for
the
question,
we're
hoping
that
they
will
continue
that
way,
but
as
the
province
continues
to
open
up
and
things
return
to
what
will
be,
hopefully
pre-pandemic
type
Norms,
we
are
going
to
monitor
how
they
are
going.
Crime
stats
are
always
an
interesting
set
of
numbers,
because
there
are
so
many
different
factors
that
influence
them,
but
I
will
turn
it
over
to
ADM
Thompson
or
acting
idiom
Thompson,
to
provide
a
bit
more
detail
as
to
where
we're
hoping
this
will
go
in
the
future.
Thank
you.
X
So
it
really
is
difficult
because
of
the
wide
range
of
factors
that
I
mentioned
to
to
to
determine
if
crime
rates
will
continue
to
decrease.
Over
time,
however,
with
our
focus
on
real
crime
efforts
and
all
the
other
initiatives
that
we
have
going
within
the
justice
and
Public
Safety
and
Emergency
Services
departments,
I
mean
we
hope
they
will,
they
will
they
will
influence
and
impact
crime
rates.
However,
because
of
those
wide
ranges
factors
it,
it
is
really
difficult
to
to
determine
if
they
will
change.
U
P
U
X
U
X
You
for
the
question
the
crime
severity
index
for
rural
and
urban
is
not
available
for
this
past
year.
However,
statistics
Canada's
most
recent
comparison
of
rural
and
urban
crime
severity
was
from
2019
based
on
that
report
and
contrary
to
the
decreasing
Trends
and
crime
rates
that
we
are
currently
seeing.
A
larger
increase
in
the
crime
severity
index
from
2009
to
2017
was
observed
in
rural
Alberta.
So
it
was
a
17
increase
in
rural
compared
to
a
two
percent
increase
in
our
Urban
centers.
U
P
U
X
Alberta
had
a
10
decreased
Manitoba,
a
10
decrease
and
Saskatchewan
a
five
percent
decrease,
so
all
of
those
three
provinces
had
decreases
in
their
crime
severity
indexes
from
2019
to
2020.,
however,
from
2020
to
2021,
Alberta's
crime
severity
index
decreased
by
seven
percent,
while
Saskatchewan
was
at
just
under
three
percent
and
Manitoba,
just
under
one
percent.
Thank.
N
Okay,
thank
you
too.
So
page
10
states
that,
when
I
got
the
authority
to
conduct
prosecution,
including
all
the
discretionary
decision
that
must
be
made
in
every
case,
originated
with
the
office
of
Attorney
General
with
this
rule
also
come
the
duty
to
remain
independent.
Indeed,
a
very
important
and
sacred
Duty
in
Independence,
so
far,
prosecution
services
in
the
relationship
system
is
the
Cornerstone
of
all
democracy.
We
recently
heard
the
allegations
of
interference
in
prosecution
Services
by
the
office
of
Premier
that
issues
outside
the
time
frame
of
this
report.
N
However,
however,
this
report
covers
a
similar
incident
of
attempted
interference
in
the
judicial
system
by
the
former
Justice
Minister
Casey
Madu,
who
reached
out
to
Edmonton
City
chief
of
police
in
relation
to
a
personal
violation
of
law.
An
independent
report
by
Justice
adult
Kent
dated
February
15
2022,
found
that
Mr
Madu
former
Minister
attempted
to
interfere
in
the
judicial
system.
Fortunately,
he
was
unsuccessful,
but
still
there
are
many
questions
that
remain
so.
My
first
question
is
forward
and
dragged.
When
was
the
first
time
the
department
became
aware
of
this
incident.
C
And
I,
thank
you
very
much,
Madam
chair
again
under
23b
again,
the
purpose
of
Pac
is
to
look
at
policy
implementation
to
talk
about
the
auditor
general
report
to
ask
questions
pertaining
to
how
policy
is
actually
carried
out,
not
the
individual
conduct
of
specific
mlas
or
the
minister
as
The
Honorable
members
talked
about
so
again.
I
would
just
urge
The,
Honorable
member
to
focus
on
the
business
at
hand
and
just
stay
away,
perhaps
from
items
that
are
outside
of
the
purview
of
this
committee.
B
N
Foreign,
a
lot
of
money
on
our
prosecution
services
on
our
Judiciary
and,
as
is
listed
on
page
10,
that
with
the
role
of
modern
Deputy
attorney
general
in
attorney
general,
comes
the
duty
to
remain
independent.
So
a
lot
of
resources
are
going
there.
There
was
a
mishap
that
were,
there
was
an
attempted
interference
in
our
judicial
system.
So
the
question
I
am
asking
is
that
when
did
the
department
first
became
aware
of
that
incident?.
U
I
cannot
answer
the
exact
date,
but
it
would
have
been
roughly
around
the
time
that
the
it
hit
the
papers
like
that
would
be
it
that
it
basically
cropped
up
when
that
was,
it
became
public.
It
was
not
something
the
the
report
that
it
was
done
is
sort
of
all
I
can
sort
of
speak
to
that.
We
hired
Justice,
Kent
or
retired
Justice
Kent.
N
U
In
terms
of
going
forward,
we
maintained
the
practices
that
we
currently
have,
which
is
there
is
a
separation.
This
is
an
issue
in
terms
of
basically
someone
making
a
a
phone
call
that
can't
report
deals
with
I,
really
can't
comment
much
more
than
that
than
we
have
internally
our
own
processes
to
make
sure
that
people
understand
the
you
know
within
the
department
how
things
work
in
terms
of
the
independence
of
the
pro
of
the
police,
the
independence
of
the
prosecution
are.
U
Safeguards
are
basically
education
and
the
policies
that
we
have
in
place
with
the
crown
prosecution
service,
where
they
maintain
their
depend,
Independence
and
the
safeguards
we
have
with
respect
to
the
Police
active,
acting
independently
and
exercise
of
their
discretion.
So
between
the
the
independence
of
the
prosecution,
the
independence
of
the
police,
that's
the
Safeguard,
so
there
is
not
anything
that
we
could
put
into
place
to
stop
someone
from
doing
something
that
may
not
be
in
alignment
with
those
policies.
N
U
A
U
So
there
is
the
minister
who
holds
a
very
independent
role
as
the
AG,
and
it
is
at
that
level
that
there
can
be
conversations,
but
in
terms
of
a
political
sort
of
call,
it
is
never
appropriate
for
a
politician
to
reach
into
the
crown
prosecution
service.
The
method
is
the
minister
is
a
contact.
I
am
a
second
conduct
and
then,
if
there
are
questions
that
they
can
be
posed
to
the
prosecution
service,
but
there
is
not
direct
contact
between
political
officers
mlas
into
the
prosecution
service.
Okay,
thank
you
and.
N
N
and
it
says
that
were
meeting
weekly
to
discuss
priority
enforcement
of
organization
and
ad
hoc
groups,
consider
repeat:
offenders
violating
the
public
health
act
and
Alberta
chief
medical
officers,
orders
pertaining
to
covid-19
pandemic,
who
would
be
included
in
the
repeat
offenders
category?
Is
there
a
report
which
is
public
or
will
be
public
like,
for
instance,
these
protests
were
happening
in
Calgary
for
a
bit
where
that's
Earth,
Pastor
Arthur
was
involved
as
well.
So
will
all
those
people
we
consider
as
repeat
offenders,.
N
U
Person
becomes
a
repeat
offender:
if
they
got
you
know
two
or
three
or
more
charges
as
to
a
list.
We
would
not
have
had
one
as
a
departmental
and
I
could
correctly.
You
know
the
police
very
well
may
have
had
one,
but
because
this
was
enforcement,
this
would
have
that
would
have
been
in
their
area.
Yes,
we
did
have
sort
of
coordinating
meetings
across
the
department
and
other
enforcement
agencies
to
make
sure
that
we
were
sharing
information
in
Intel,
but
that
was
very
much
at
the
operational
level
for
the
relevant
enforcement
offices.
N
B
E
U
W
Thank
you
very
much
Deputy
chair.
Thank
you
for
the
questions.
I
can
actually
give
you
sort
of
a
broad
overview
or
as
Grand
as
you
want,
but
I
know.
Time
is
of
the
essence,
so
I'll
try
to
keep
it
at
a
reasonably
high
level.
There's
been
a
significant
investment
in
policing
in
2021
and
specifically
that
year
there
were
Investments.
You
know
in
large
measure
in
the
rcmp's
Provincial
Police
Service.
In
addition
to
it'll,
give
you
a
sort
of
a
sense
of
where
those
Investments
were
as
well.
W
In
addition
to
that,
there
were
some
increases
to
the
Alberta
law
enforcement
response
teams,
which
is
the
organized
crime
and
Joint
Forces
operations
units
in
the
province,
so
that
they
saw
increases
there
were
increases
to
eye
track
positions,
which
is
the
integrated
threat,
risk
assessment
center.
Their
creation
of
two
hate
crimes,
coordinators
officers,
positions
in
the
province,
some
increase
to
our
integrated
Community
safety
positions
and
First
Nations
policing.
W
But
the
majority
of
the
increases
that
you're
looking
at
were
in
the
Provincial
Police
Service
area
and
in
those
areas,
the
the
emphasis
in
year,
one
and
then
year,
two,
which
is
this
year
of
the
increase
to
the
Police
Service
as
a
consequence
of
the
police
funding
model
we're
in
front
line
Detachment
areas.
But
that
was
also
followed
up
with
increases
to
areas
such
as
the
general
investigator
section,
which
is
a
plain
close
support
unit
which
deals
with
more
complex
files
of
the
front
line
for
policing
sexual
assault
review
unit.
W
The
rpac
units
was
just
an
integrated
unit
involving
police
and
mental
health
workers
were
created,
forensic
identification
Services,
which
supports
Frontline
officers
through
crime
scene
investigations,
as
well
as
restorative
justice
and,
of
course,
the
crime
reduction
units
within
the
provincial
areas.
Those
are
globally,
where
they.
E
U
W
Thank
you,
Deputy
thank
you
chair
and
thank
you
for
the
question.
In
2021,
Alberta
had
approximately
178
officers
per
100
000,
which
was
sixth
highest
amongst
the
Canadian
provinces.
Newfoundland
has
the
highest
ratio
at
198
officers
per
100
000,
while
British
Columbia
had
the
lowest
at
136
officers
per
100,
000.
Alberta
was
actually
sixth
highest
in
both
2019
and
through
to
2021.
We
actually
don't
have
data,
however,
for
2020
from
stats
counter
on
that.
Okay,.
E
U
W
Thank
you,
Deputy
thank
you
chair,
and
it
is
a
fascinating
question
and
it's
actually
very
difficult.
Won't
they
give
you
a
definitive
answer,
sir.
The
reality
is,
there
may
be
correlations
there,
but,
as
my
colleague
earlier
indicated,
there
are
a
number
of
number
of
factors
that,
in
that
influence,
CSI
and
and
I'm
only
speaking
generically.
W
So
there
are,
there
are
a
number
of
factors
that
could
influence
it
and,
generally
speaking,
it
would
be
difficult
for
me
to
say
that
there's
a
direct
correlation
between
any
one
of
those
factors
and
the
CI
in
and
of
itself,
it's
probably
better
to
look
at
it
as
a
constellation
of
factors
in
and
looked
tweak.
Your
efforts
across
the
board.
E
E
U
You
very
much
for
that
question.
It
is
a
very
interesting
one
as
to
what's
the
impact
when
you
make
changes,
and
you
divert
money
or
you
put
more
money
into
specific
areas
as
to
what's
going
to
be.
Is
someone
benefiting
at
the
expense
of
someone
else,
and
so
we
do
as
we
Implement
new
processes
bring
on
more
people,
we
do
try
and
understand.
U
J
W
It
is
a
a
very
important
question,
a
very
difficult
one
to
to
address
that
is
you
know,
as
we
focus
on
increasing
resources
and
Detachment
levels
as
we
create
crime
reduction
units,
as
we
create
intelligence
processes
that
are
designed
to
deal
with
that.
Are
we
displacing
that
to
other
areas?
Are
we
pushing
people
around
or
are
we
dealing
with
them
in
a
more
effective
manner?
W
You
know,
individually,
tailored
and
specific
plans
for
wraparounds
approaches
to
dealing
with
the
the
criminals
that
are
the
most
prevalent
in
terms
of
those
that
cause
in
your
specific
reference
property
crime.
So
that
is
truly
where
we
we
we're
going
in
20
2021
and
continue
to
go
across
the
province.
We
do
monitor
that.
W
We
look
for
trying
you
know,
looking
at
crime
rates
in
the
rural
area,
looking
at
crime
rates
across
the
province
and
and
trying
to
determine
whether
our
overall
approach
is
being
successful
or
not
with
our
law
enforcement
community,
and
we
always
work
with
the
the
police
and
other
institutions,
not
just
law
enforcement,
of
course,
to
try
and
look
for
better
ways
to
do
business
in
that
area.
Sure.
E
Now
the
next
line
of
question
that
I
wanted
to
go
to
is
I
often
hear
people
say
that
the
courts
we
have
kind
of
a
revolving
door
scenario
where
I
was
I,
was
pleased
to
see
on
page
34
that
you've
hired
an
extra
50
Crown
prosecutors.
How
is
that
going
to
affect
that
thing
that
I
hear
from
my
constituents
on
a
regular
basis
of
the
revolving
door.
U
Thank
you
very
much
for
the
question,
sir.
That
will
have
a
positive
effect
in
terms
of
having
the
matters.
Well,
there's
another
thing
is
it
when
it
comes
to
the
revolving
door,
you
have
a
number
of
place
factors
that
place.
We
have
the
bail
situation
itself,
which
is
where
I
think
most
people
when
they
talk
about
revolving
door,
persons
arrested
they
go
in
front
of
a
JP
and
then
they're
immediately
out.
So
we're
doing
a
number
of
things:
everything
from
free
charge,
approval
to
the
okay.
N
T
N
U
You
for
the
question
the
situation
that
you're
talking
about
was
really
outside
the
department
that
was
between
the
city
of
Edmonton,
Police
Department,
and
at
that
time
Minister
media
was
the
Justice
Minister
for
the
Department.
While
we
facilitated
the
hiring
of
Justice
Kent
to
conduct
the
report,
that
was
very
much
outside
of
our
response
area
of
responsibility.
M
Thank
you,
okay,
so
I'd
like
to,
and
questions
about,
the
report
states
that
under
outcome
three
on
page
43,
that
albertans
should
feel
and
I
quote,
support
it
in
their
interactions
with
the
justice
system
and
quote
and
goes
on
to
detail
the
new
model
of
victim,
Service
delivery.
So,
with
respect
to
that
goal,
I'd
like
to
look
at
some
of
the
impacts
that
these
changes
have
had
so,
firstly,
in
2020,
as
these
changes
were
taking
place,
the
victim's
Financial
benefits
program
was
replaced
with
an
interim
program,
the
victims
assistance
program.
M
Now,
while
the
government
was
making
the
shift,
we
heard
from
stakeholders
that
the
interim
program
meant
many
people
who
had
victims
of
who
had
been
victims
of
crime
were
unable
to
access
vital
counseling
services
and
other
supports.
So
my
first
question
did
government
track
the
number
of
people
who
potentially
reached
out
or
applied
for
services
previously
available
to
them,
but
were
no
longer
no
longer
available
caused
by
the
shifting
in
Service
delivery
models.
U
X
You
for
the
question,
so
in
short,
yes,
and
so
once
the
new
victims
of
once
the
new
victims
assistance
program
came
in,
it
was
retroactive
for
the
period
of
the
interim
program,
and
so
all
victims
who
applied
or
made
contact
with
the
victims
of
crime
program
were
retroactively,
contacted
to
see
what
benefits
could
be
available
under
the
new
system.
Okay,.
U
X
M
That'd
be
great,
thank
you
very
much
on
page
43
of
the
report.
It
states
and
I
quote:
the
ministry
is
committed
to
ensuring
victims
of
crime
have
access
to
the
support
they
need
when
they
need
it.
So
if
this
government
wants
albertans
to
feel
supported
in
their
interactions
with
the
justice
system,
really,
why
did
the?
Why
did
they
cut
victim,
Service
delivery
options
and
not
ensure
adequate
support
in
the
interim
and
I
think
that
we
heard
you
know,
it's
likely
anecdotal
I'm
sure
most
people
heard
in
their
constituency
offices
from
people
that
were
having
difficulty.
U
X
You
thank
you
and
thank
you
for
the
question,
so
we
did
have
a
five
million
dollar
victims
assistance
program
that
was
in
place,
although
it
is
not
as
robust
as
the
the
new
system
which
all
which
ultimately
replaced
it.
There
was
a
significant
Suite
of
services
and
supports
that
were
available
and
that's
why
the
decision
was
made
to
ensure
that
retroactively.
Those
enhanced
supports
were
then
available
to
everybody
who
was
part
of
that
previous
system.
U
Thank
you
for
the
question.
I'll
provide
a
brief
answer.
Then
I
will
turn
it
over
to
ADM
Thompson.
It's
not
an
exact
match.
There
have
been
changes
that
have
occurred,
the
when
it
was
being
redesigned.
The
overall
thought
was
to
try
and
find
a
better
way
to
support
victims
with
the
money
that
was
available
and
not
just
have
it
sort
of
continue
on
the
way
it
had.
There
was
a
concern
that
we
were
not
providing
the
support
that
victims
needed
or
the
money
was
not
being
well
used.
U
X
Thank
you.
Thank
you
for
the
question,
so
the
feedback
that
we
have
received
on
the
changes
to
the
program,
so
the
switch
from
the
form
of
financial
benefits
program
to
the
victims,
assistance
program,
even
the
interim
program,
into
the
new
and
enhanced
program,
overwhelmingly
positive
support.
The
former
Financial
benefits
program
sometimes
took
up
to
a
year
a
year
and
a
half
for
a
victim
to
receive
the
support
that
they
needed,
because
it
was
that
cash
for
service
type
of
a
model.
This
is
in
in
in
both
the
interim
and
the
enhanced
new
program.
M
Appreciate
the
statistics
involved
or
the
information
that
you're
sharing,
you
know
trying
to
assure
albertans
that
you
know
victims
of
crime
are
supported
in
the
best
way
they
possibly
can.
There
are
some
things
that
just
don't
line
up,
so
you
know
we're
talking
about.
You
know
violent
crime
and
crime
rates,
so
we
know
that
in
violent
crime
was
up
8.5.
So
looking
at
this
annual
report
was
it
like
Urban
violent
crime
was
up,
but
we
saw
a
59
decrease
in
financial
benefits
to
victims
of
crime.
M
So
there's
something
that
isn't
matching
up
and
I
know
that
we
have
heard
from
whether
it's
constituents-
or
you
know,
people
that
have
been
victims
of
crime,
but
they
have
not
received
the
support
in
terms
of
counseling
that
they
need.
We've
also
heard
from
sexual
assault
centers.
That
will
tell
us
that
they've
heard
from
groups
of
people
that
are
not
receiving
the
support
that
they
need.
So
is
there
other
than
you
know
what
you've
explained?
U
Thank
you
very
much
for
the
question
and
the
concerns
are
very
valid.
The
group
of
stakeholders
that
are
interested
in
being
supported
when
something
you
know
that
sort
of
traumatic
happens
that
they
have
the
necessary
supports.
The
overall
goal
of
modifying
and
changing
the
system
from
the
interim
to
our
current
was
to
try
and
improve
those
services
to
people
the
best
that
I
can
sort
of
offer.
Sorry,
yes,.
M
U
A
U
U
U
In
terms
of
the
reduction
of
that
money,
there
was
basically
to
the
comet
that
acting
and
ADM
Thompson
made
there
were
cash
payments
that
were
being
made
and
those
were
not
being
well
there's
a
reduction
in
the
amount
of
money
that
was
being
spent.
It
was
a
reduction
that
was
being
having
money
diverted
to
other
areas
for
better
to
benefit
people.
So,
while
there's
you
know,
people
lost
basically
a
cash
payment
which
may
not
have
helped
them,
but
they
did.
We
were
basically
standing
up
a
system
that
would
have
services
available
for
them.
Thank
you.
U
S
Correctional
services,
so
in
terms
of
the
correctional
center
and
and
Community
operations,
I
can
give
a
couple
of
examples
of
these
supports
and
interventions
that
we
do,
but
then
I'll
perhaps
turn
it
back
over
to
Deputy
Minister
Baska
for
for
additional
interventions
that
are
part
of
the
other
parts
of
the
justice
system.
So
certainly
there
are
a
number
of
initiatives
and
supports
that
we
have
in
place
within
Correctional
operations
within
our
custody
operations.
Two
of
the
most
prevalent
ones
are
our
indigenous
program
coordinators
and
our
Elder
and
knowledge
keeper
services.
S
So
these
are
supports
and
interventions
that
we
have
within
our
correctional
centers
that
provide
cultural
supports
and,
and
certainly
connection
back
to
community
for
individuals
that
are
in
custody
for
a
Community
Corrections
operations.
We
have
two
indigenous
Community
Supervision
contracts
that
we
have
in
place,
one
out
of
kyanite
and
the
other
out
of
sutina
that
provide
direct
Probation
Services
for
those
clients
in
those
regions
and
provide
again
advice
to
government
on
on
their
supports
and
interventions
that
they
provide.
So
with
that
I'll
turn
it
back
over
to
DM
Bosco.
Thank.
U
X
X
We're
also
working
in
Partnership
again
with
Native
Counseling
Services
of
Alberta,
to
develop
glad
you
principles,
Education
and
Training
for
all
Justice
System
professionals
to
increase
awareness
and
education.
With
relation
to
the
glad
you
and
gladly
reports,
the
indigenous
Justice
program
provides
flexible
community-based
models
that
support
indigenous
accused
to
be
to
be
diverted
from
the
mainstream
justice
system
and
held
accountable
through
participation
in
community-based
Justice
programs.
X
And
finally,
we
have
our
public
security
indigenous
advisory
committee,
which
was
created
this
past
year
to
provide
advice
and
recommendations
to
provide
Public
Safety
or
to
improve
Public
Safety
throughout
Alberta,
including
in
indigenous
communities,
and
this
committee
advises
on
Public
Safety
initiatives,
including
police
and
peace
officer,
reform,
restorative
justice,
victim
services
and
crime
prevention.
To
ensure
that
our
government's
policies,
programs
and
processes
align
with
the
needs
of
indigenous
communities
across
the
province,
thank
you.
Q
Thank
you,
I'll
I
had
to
move
on
to
victim
Services
delivery,
but
briefly,
since
you
mentioned
since
you
named
some
of
the
First
Nations
and
and
methi
meti
associations,
so
are
there
any
better
examples
across
those
Nations
that
we
can
utilize
them
in
in
in
other
First
Nation
areas
and
native
nations,
and
also
you
mentioned
Elders
I
know
that
Elders
are
respected
in
in
First,
Nations
and
metis.
Are
we
effectively
using
them
to
counsel
some
of
these
inmates
in
these
correctional
centers.
U
Thank
you
very
much
for
for
the
question
we
do
make
use
sort
of
starting
with
the
the
last
part
of
your
question.
We
do
make
use
of
Elders
in
the
facilities
and
in
other
areas,
working
with
First,
Nations,
metis
groups
and
other
indigenous
organizations
to
draw
on
their
experience
and
their
cultures
to
try
and
make
sure
that
the
programs
and
the
assistance
that
the
government
is
providing
does
get
to
the
best
use
in
terms
of
examples
from
Big
Stone
creation,
our
native
Counseling
Services.
U
X
Thank
you
and
thank
you
for
the
question.
We
have
worked
with
several
Nations
so
far
and
we'll
continue
to
do
so
on
working
with
with
them
and
assisting
them
in
building
their
own
Justice
processes.
So,
as
the
deputy
mentioned,
we
have
worked
with
Big
Stone,
Cree
Nation
and
provided
them
funding
to
develop
a
comprehensive
Justice
strategy,
build
capacity
within
their
nation
and
to
develop
their
restorative
justice
and
Indigenous
courtwork
program.
Q
Q
Domestic
violence
act
the
so
the
itrac
is
currently
facing
Treasures,
as
referrals
are
outpouring
capacity,
but
certification
of
current
trainees
will
soon
remedy
this.
So
in
that
case,
how
long
does
it
currently
take
albertans
to
acquire
information
on
the
possible
violent
histories
of
their
inmate
Partners
through
this
program?
And
what
is
the
goal
goal
for
these
the
wait
times
once
the
current
trainees
are
certified,
how
much
those
wait
times
will
be
reduced.
Thank
you.
Thank.
U
You
very
much
for
the
question
yeah
internally.
The
integrated
threat
risk
assessment
center
is
currently
completing
disclosure
documents
within
a
week
of
receiving
the
application
and
required
information.
While
there
have
been
instances
of
delays
in
this
area
in
the
past,
none
are
currently
being
experienced.
Historically,
when
delays
have
been
identified,
the
center
has
reassigned
staff
to
help
meet
disclosure
timelines.
There
are
instances
where
disclosures
are
delayed
as
a
consequence
of
a
variety
of
factors
outside
the
center's
Direct
Control.
We
are
attempting
to
identify
and
address
those
factors
on
an
ongoing
basis.
U
W
B
Thank
you,
Mr
de
Grant
friends.
It's
been
brought
to
my
attention
that,
due
to
to
the
short
break
that
we
took
in
order
to
get
the
new
officials
into
their
chairs
that
we
may
go
slightly
over
time,
so
I'm
going
to
look
to
the
floor
and
put
a
question
of
unanimous
consent
of
ask
for
unanimous
consent
of
the
committee
to
go
over
time
in
order
to
only
finish
the
agenda
as
put
forward
to
us
today,
including
the
three-minute
read-in
and
other
business
portions
of
of
the
agenda.
B
N
Comments
it
says
that
as
well,
the
pricewaterhousecooper
report
on
feasibility
of
replacing
the
RCMP
within
Alberta
Provincial
Police
Force
provided
options
how
it
made
in
Alberta,
Provincial,
Police
Service
would
work.
The
report
also
showed
it
could
be
possible
to
do
this
at
the
same
or
lower
overall
operating
costs.
N
That's
what
is
Minister's
message
written
in
Mr
message
elsewhere
in
this
report.
Provincial
Police
Force
project
has
been
talked
about
as
well.
However,
when
we
look
at
PWC
report
page
8,
it
says
that
overall
cost
right
now
Alberta
is
paying
his
318
million
for
RCMP
and
then
they
also
provided
casting
for
the
new
Alberta
Provincial
Police
Force.
N
U
Thank
you
very
much
for
the
question.
Sir
I
will
attempt
to
do,
provide
an
answer
here
and
then
we'll
turn
it
over
to
ADM
the
grand
as
well.
So
my
understanding
is
that
when
you
go
through
the
overall
report,
there
are
different
scenarios
that
are
laid
out
in
different
costs
and,
depending
on
how
you
sort
of
look.
U
N
U
You,
sir,
so
in
terms
of
the
report.
Yes,
you
have
numbers
in
there
that
set
out
the
different
costs,
the
ultimate
sort
of
goal
when
you
look
into
the
future,
when
this
would
actually
be
implemented,
and
you
factor
into
what
we
currently
pay
and
the
changes
that
are
currently
underway
with
respect
to
the
increased
cost
to
the
operation
of
the
RCMP
contracts
and
all
of
the
other
Associated
costs
there
does
you
do
end
up
with
a
situation
where
you
can
make
it.
N
U
N
Or
that's
what
it
says
that
currently
Alberta
is
paying
318
million
dollar
in
RCMP
gas.
That's
correct,
and
over
Alberta
Provincial
Police
Force,
two
snare
users
telling
us
that
somewhere
between
734
to
754
million
dollar,
that
will
be
the
cost
to
albertans.
So
that's
significantly
higher
than
what
we
are
paying
today.
U
So,
sir,
the
best
way
I
can
sort
of
explain.
This
is
you're,
comparing
numbers
of
what
is
current,
which
is
318,
and
then
what
is
a
proposed
cost
in
the
future
and
the
proposed
cost
in
the
future?
You
have
to
actually
have
to
look
at
what
is
the
proposed
cost
of
the
RCMP
at
that
future
date
compared
to
those
future
costs?
If
we
stand
up
a
Provincial
Police
Service
and
those
are
the
numbers
that
you
have
to
compare-
lays.
N
W
W
You
Deputy
thepie,
thank
you
chair
and
thank
you
for
the
question.
I
I,
don't
I
I,
don't
have
the
pricewaterhouse
Cooper
report
in
front
of
me,
so
I
may
have
to
return
with
an
answer,
but
from
the
numbers
that
you're
articulating
and
based
on
a
report.
That's
before
you,
you
can
confirm
that
we
estimate
the
cost
of
an
Alberta
Police
Service,
a
total
operating
costs,
that's
without
any
subsidies
from
Canada
which
we
currently
enjoy,
both
on
our
Provincial
Police
Service
and
on
Municipal
contracts
for
48
or
49
municipalities.
W
N
N
To
say
that
another
question,
as
you
mentioned,
that
there
are
47
municipalities
that
have
standalone
contracts
with
the
RCMP
direct
contracts
for
the
service
delivery.
So
if
we
proceed
with
Roberta
Provincial,
Police
Force,
so
Province
will
be
canceling.
Those
contracts
with
the
municipalities
that
municipalities
have
with
RCMP.
W
And
the
I
think
the
number
is
48
or
49.,
but
I
could
I
could
be
wrong.
Pwc
report
says
47
I
think
at
that
time,
there's
been
two
more
that
have
come
on
they've
crossed
the
threshold
deny
yeah
so
and
part
of
the
the
Delta
that
you're
describing
is
that
in
the
report
we
don't
we
don't
pay
for
those
Municipal
costs
and
that's,
whereas
the
report
on
PWC
talks
about
the
total
cost
of
policing,
so
that
might
be
part
of
the
big.
C
Thank
you,
madam
chair
again,
under
23
B,
while
The
Honorable
member
is
talking
speculatively
using
forward-facing
questions
such
as.
If
the
province
knows
this,
and
then
what
are
the
repercussions
for
that,
it's
again
clearly
our
scope
from
what
we're
actually
dealing
with
as
a
Public
Accounts
committee,
we're
supposed
to
be
focusing
on
a
rear
view
facing
items
before
us
with
the
auditor
general
with
the
business
plan
so
for
facing
questions
regarding
policy
or
what
the
government
will
do
under
certain
scenarios
is
clearly
a
scope
from
this
committee.
N
Thank
you,
chair
I.
Think
it's
not
a
point
of
order.
Alberta
Provincial,
Police
Force
is
discussed
from
Minister
message
to
the
entire
report.
It's
a
reference
everywhere.
How
there
were
consultation,
how
there
is
more
work,
how
there
is
BWC
report
that
has
caused
albertin,
two
million
dollar
or
something
that's
clearly
within
the
scope
of
how
he
is
utilizing
public
funds
and
how
we
plan
to
move
ahead
with
something
that
is
costly
and
not
in
the
interests
of
albertans.
N
So
I
was
asking
about
the
context
that
municipalities
have
in
place.
22
First
Nations
have
those
contact
in
place.
They
are
also
getting
some
money
from
federal
government
Province
based
only
portion
of
federal
municipalities
based
portion
of
it,
so
that
would
be
that
it
cost
if
Government
continues
to
work
on
this
Alberta
Provincial
Police
Force
idea,
as
is
mentioned
in
this
report,
that
government
is
working
on
it.
U
N
N
N
W
Thank
you
Deputy.
Thank
you.
Thank
you,
madam
chair,
and
thank
you
for
the
question.
It's
a
it's
a
a
difficult
circumstance
in
the
sense
that
scan
the
scan
units
when
the
sheriffs
are
are
quite
successful
and
quite
as
a
result
of
that
success
widely
in
demand
and
the
threshold
changes
as
I
understand,
are
really
designed
around
ensuring
that
we
maintain
capacity
or
we
we
utilize
the
capacity
within
the
the
unit.
At
this
point
in
time,.
N
Another
question:
with,
relating
with
respect
to
page
11,
the
commission
Works
to
eliminate
discrimination
and
barriers
to
full
participation
in
society
through
education
and
Community
engagement.
That's
about
Alberta,
Human
Rights
Commission
government
has
reduced
that
Grant
to
zero.
Can
you
explain
how
does
Ministry
fulfills
it
mandate
when
they
don't
have
any
dollars
allocated
to
education.
U
Thank
you
for
the
question
at
the
time
that
the
grant
program
was
wound
up.
The
commission
undertook
that
it
would
look
at
its
options
to
basically
continue
forward
with
whatever
education
or
whatever
community
outreach
that
they
could
do
within
the
budget
that
they
had
allotted.
But
it
was
basically
a
a
prior.
R
Thank
you
very
much
appreciate
the
Justice
Ministry
being
here
page
45
to
47
of
the
annual
report
talks
about
the
digital
transformation
using
online
to
improve
access
and
use
of
limited
Court
resources.
It
mentions
that
there
are
have
been
over
about
5600
online
adjournments
when
the
parties
agree.
Both
parties
agree
I'm
wondering
how
much
time
has
been
saved
for
parties
using
this
service.
U
Thank
you
very
much
for
the
question,
we're
fairly
happy
with
the
progress
that
is
being
made
on
Justice
digital
because
it
is
having
a
positive
impact.
So
more
than
26
000,
first
appearance
adjournment,
requests
for
the
Provincial
Court
adult
Criminal
Court
have
been
processed
from
across
the
province.
A
German
requests
take
66
percent
less
Court
time
for
adjournment
compared
to
a
manual
process
which
occurs
inside
a
courtroom
or
at
a
case
management
office.
The
department
estimates
that
several
hundred
hours
per
month
have
been
saved
in
court
processing
time.
U
R
A
great
result
that
does
free
up
access
to
Justice
another
initiative
is
the
Justice
transformation
initiative,
that's
in
respect
of
selected
impaired
driving,
impaired
driving
incidents,
but
there
are
criteria
for
that
to
be
used.
Could
you
please
describe
the
criteria
that
have
to
be
met
before
it
would
qualify
for
this?
Under
this
initiative,.
U
Thank
you
very
much
for
the
question.
The
Justice
transformation
initiative
has
had
a
very
positive
effect
in
terms
of
a
criminal
charge.
The
criminal
charge
will
be
laid
in
the
following
sort
of
cases.
There's
an
impaired,
driving
event
involving
an
impaired
someone
who's
basically
charged
before
there's
bodily
harm
or
death,
or
it's
in
relation
to
the
commission
of
another
related
or
simultaneous
crime.
A
blood,
alcohol
concentration,
more
than
160
milligrams,
160
milligram
percent,
where
youth
was
a
passenger
or
where
there
was
other
significant
public
interest
factors.
U
All
others
will
be
diverted.
So
it's
basically
there's
a
number
of
factors
that
make
the
situation
more
serious
than
just,
and
it's
not
that
undersell
the
the
seriousness
of
an
impaired
driving
charge,
but
there
are
other
factors
that
will
have
it
put
into
the
criminal
court
system.
Impaired
charges
exceeded
six
percent
of
our
of
our
criminal
files.
U
R
U
O
U
R
N
R
U
I
think
we'll
have
to
take
that
one
back
I
know
when
this
was
originally
put
into
place,
that
we
were
seeing
a
reduction
in
terms
of
an
officer's
time
in
court
being
reduced
by
about
six
or
seven
hours,
so
it
went
from
you
know
basically,
eight
hours
per
impaired
charge
down
to
about
one
or
two,
but
we
can
certainly
find
out
it's
been
an
area
of
interest
for
us
as
to
the
sort
of
the
collateral
benefits
to
the
system
by
implementing
this
new
change.
Thank
you.
K
Yeah,
it's
like
MLA
Roosevelt
airtime.
Thanks
questions.
Okay,
thank
you
very
much
in
preparation
for
the
implementation
of
the
mobile
monitoring
technology,
a
new
pre-tile
risk
assessment.
Ptra
tool
has
been
developed
to
identify
the
risk
of
pre-trial
failure.
Are
there
any
new
risk
assessment
criteria
under
which
ptra
that
did
not
exist
before.
U
S
Thank
you,
hello,
Fiona,
Lavoy,
ADM,
Correctional
Services,
so
the
pre-trial
risk
assessment
tool
is
part
of
a
suite
of
tools
that
we
use
within
our
community
supervision
operations
and
they
essentially
follow
under
the
risk
need
responsivity
principles,
and
so
the
ptra
is
referred
to.
Essentially
it's
a
tool
that
looks
at
risk
of
pre-trial
failure.
S
Looking
at
a
number
of
indicators
that
really
relate
to
indicators
Beyond
how
an
individual
is
presenting
in
terms
of
criminal
history,
current
charges
conduct
in
that
manner,
but
it
looks
and
pulls
from
the
broader
Suite
of
tools
that
we
use,
which
are
essentially
related
to
the
service
planning
instrument
that
we
use,
which
is
looking
at
broader
indicators.
So
it
pulls
from
existing
indicators
from
the
broader
tool.
K
S
S
Sure
so
the
ptra
is
a
tool
and
is
one
of
many
tools
that
our
probation
officers
have
so
mobile
monitoring
was
established
during
this
time
frame
of
the
annual
reporting,
which
is
essentially
a
tool
that
allows
individuals
that
have
a
cell
phone
to
interact
with
associate
probation
officers
in
a
different
way.
So
it
has
information
about
their
court
dates
their
conditions
that
they
have
and
they
can
interact
with
probation
officers
through
cell
phone
technology.
S
Sure
so,
as
with
all
Community
Supervision,
the
individual
is
to
comply
with
a
number
of
conditions
that
are
established
and
sent
out,
and
the
interaction
and
process
for
how
they
are
complying
with
those
conditions
is
always
and
continuously
evaluated
and
monitored.
And
if
there
is
risk
of
the
individual
or
if
the
individual
has
not
complied
with
a
condition
that
is
reported
through
in
due
course
as
part
of
whether
the
individual
is
reporting
through
mobile
technology
or
with
a
probation
officer
directly.
K
Thank
you.
A
mobile
monitoring
unit
for
those
on
probation
electronic
monitoring
program
and
for
those
surveys,
scene
service
serving
sentences
in
the
community
are
part
of
this.
New
mobile
monitoring
technology
has
similar
mobile
monitoring
programs
that
adopted
in
other
provinces
and
aside
from
the
ptra,
what
other
barriers
are
in
place
to
mitigate
the
risk
associated
with
these
new
programs.
C
B
Thank
you,
Mr
chair
for
reading
questions.
Mr
Matthew
called
a
public
inquiry
into
misuse
of
police
databases
in
May
2021
in
response
to
search
of
personal
records
of
the
member
for
Lethbridge
West,
while
a
minister
search
was
performed
with
no
lawful
purpose
or
investigation.
So
please
table
the
list
of
those
percent
correspondents
providing
the
details
of
this
inquiry
in
December
2021.
B
Please
confirm
with
the
committee
what
date
the
information
about
the
inquiry
was
available
in
the
Goa
website
provided
confirmation
of
how
long
it
was
between
interested
parties
being
advised
to
the
inquiry
by
physical
mail
in
December
of
21
and
the
posting
of
the
public
information
of
January
of
22
and
be
specific
about
the
dates.
Please
confirm
that
the
committee,
the
date,
the
so-called
addendum
to
the
terms
of
reference
for
the
inquiry,
was
actually
signed
by
the
minister
and
forward
an
explanation
to
this
committee.
B
Why
an
unassigned
addendum
was
sent
to
the
parties
in
December
of
21,
provide
the
rationale
underpinning
the
addendum
to
the
inquiry
terms
table
the
1819
correspondence
between
Marlon
de
Grande
and
law
enforcement
officials
across
the
province
included,
but
not
living
into
the
cameras,
RCMP
Detachment
and
the
Lethbridge
police
service
related
to
the
regular
searches
of
records
for
the
MLA
for
Lethbridge
West,
which
were
the
actions
that
led
to
the
public
inquiry
in
2021.
Please
provide
the
rationale
for
why
the
minister
was
a
some
of
these
searches
was
not
advised.
B
Please
provide
the
committee
the
cost
of
the
public
inquiry
during
the
2122
fiscal
year,
including
the
cost
of
In-House
counsel
and
Idaho
House
Council
lerb
costs
and
inquiry.
Council
costs
additionally
on
legal
aid
pledge
11
states
of
the
ministry's
party
to
a
tripartite
agreement.
So
the
question
is,
after
the
signing
of
that
tripartite
agreement,
which
included
an
increase
of
the
legal
aid
budget
and
for
installments,
the
legal
aid
budget
went
up
to
104
million
in
2122
20
21.
B
B
Provide
an
explanation
as
to
why
the
government
did
not
honor
the
tripartite
agreement
and
are
there
plans
to
honor
that
agreement
and
pay
up
any
arrears
and
on
the
Human
Rights
Commission,
the
reduction
of
Grants
to
zero?
Can
the
department
provide
a
rationale
as
to
how
that
fulfills,
the
Mandate
indicated
on
page
11,
which
is
to
work
to
eliminate
discrimination
of
barriers
to
full
participation
in
society?
Thank
you.
C
C
Okay,
seeing
no
questions
from
the
government
side,
I'd
like
to
thank
officials
from
the
Minister
of
Justice
and
the
oag
for
their
participation
in
responding
to
committee's
members
questions.
We
ask
that
any
outstanding
questions
be
responded
to
in
within
with
responded
to
in
writing
within
30
days
and
forwarded
to
the
committee
clerk
honorable
members,
the
committee
typically
reviews
and
approves
its
annual
report
during
the
Spring.
C
However,
since
we
are
anticipating
in
general
election
this
spring
and
next
Tuesday,
possibly
being
the
final
Public
Accounts
committee
meeting
this
legislature,
the
committee
should
look
to
improve
its
annual
report
at
the
next
meeting.
The
report
is
narrowly
complete
and
will
be
distributed
to
members
for
review
prior
to
next
Tuesday's
meeting.
Are
there
any
questions
about
the
annual
report?
C
Cnn
I
would
note
that
written
responses
were
received
from
the
ministry
of
children's
services
and
the
office
of
the
of
the
auditor
general
to
questions
asked.
The
committee
meetings
on
December
13th
and
December
20th
2022
they're
posted
to
the
committee's
internal
site
and
will
be
made
public
on
the
assembly
website,
as
has
been
our
usual
practice.
Are
there
any
other
items
for
discussion
under
other
business?
C
Okay,
see
you
not
next
Tuesday
February,
21st
2023,
the
ministry
of
jobs,
economy
and
Northern
development
we'll
be
back
to
review
the
labor
and
immigration
annual
report
and
any
outstanding
recommendations
of
the
auditor.
General
I
will
call
for
a
motion
to
adjourn.
Would
a
member
move
that
the
meeting
be
adjourned
and,
let's
see
a
member
Hunter
all
in
favor
all
opposed.