►
Description
No description was provided for this meeting.
If this is YOUR meeting, an easy way to fix this is to add a description to your video, wherever mtngs.io found it (probably YouTube).
A
A
A
A
B
Foreign
good
morning,
I'd
like
to
call
the
meeting
to
order
and
welcome
everyone
in
attendance.
The
committee
has
under
consideration
the
estimates
for
the
ministry
of
environment
and
protected
areas
for
the
fiscal
year.
Ending
March,
31st,
2024.
I'd.
Ask
that
we
go
around
the
table
and
have
members
introduce
themselves
for
the
record
Minister.
When
we
get
to
you,
please
introduce
the
officials
who
are
joining
you
at
the
table.
My
name
is
David
Hansen
I
am
the
MLA
for
Bonneville
Cold
Lake
St
Paul
I'm,
the
chair
of
this
committee.
We
will
begin
starting
to
my
right.
B
B
I'd
like
to
note
the
following
substitutions
for
the
record
honorable
Mr
Panda
for
Mr
turton,
honorable
Ms
Pond
for
honorable
Ms,
Isaac
and
Mr
Smith
for
Mr
Singh,
a
few
housekeeping
items
to
address
before
return
to
the
business
at
hand.
Please
note
that
the
microphones
are
operated
by
Hansard
staff.
The
committee
proceedings
are
live
streamed
on
the
internet
and
broadcast
on
Alberta
assembly
TV.
The
audio
and
video
stream
and
transcripts
of
meetings
can
be
accessed
via
the
Legislative
Assembly
website.
B
Members
participating
remotely
are
encouraged
to
turn
your
camera
on.
While
speaking
and
mute
your
microphone
when
not
speaking,
remote
participants
who
wish
to
be
placed
on
the
speakers
list
are
asked
to
email
or
message
to
the
committee
Clerk
and
members
in
the
room
should
signal
to
the
chair
reset
your
cell
phones
to
silent
for
the
duration
of
the
meeting.
B
Honorable
members,
the
standing
order
set
out
the
process
for
consideration
of
the
main
estimates.
A
total
of
three
hours
has
been
scheduled
for
consideration
of
the
estimates
of
the
ministry
of
Ministry
of
environment
and
protected
areas,
standing
order,
59.01-6
establishes
the
speaking
rotation
and
speaking
times.
In
brief,
the
minister
or
member
of
executive
Council,
acting
on
The
Minister's
behalf,
will
have
10
minutes
to
address
the
committee
at
the
conclusion
of
The
Minister's
comments.
A
60-minute
speaking
block
for
the
official
opposition
begins
followed
by
a
20-minute
speaking
block
for
independent
members.
B
If
any
and
then
a
20-minute
speaking
block
for
the
government
caucus
individuals
may
only
speak
for
up
to
10
minutes
at
a
time,
but
speaking
times
may
be
combined
between
the
member
and
the
minister.
After
this
speaking
time.
We'll
follow
the
same
rotation
of
the
official
opposition,
independent
member
and
the
government
caucus
the
member
and
the
minister
May
each
speak
once
for
a
maximum
of
five
minutes,
or
these
times
may
be
combined
making
a
10-minute
block.
B
With
the
concurrence
of
the
committee,
I
will
call
a
five-minute
break
near
the
midpoint
of
the
meeting.
However,
the
three-hour
clock
will
continue
to
run.
Does
anyone
oppose
taking
a
break
segment?
We
will
announce
that
at
the
time
Ministry
officials
may
be
present
and
at
the
direction
of
the
minister
May
address
the
committee
Ministry
officials,
seated
in
the
gallery
of
called
upon,
have
access
to
a
microphone
in
the
gallery
area
and
are
asked
to
please
introduce
themselves
prior
to
commenting
pages
are
available
to
deliver
notes
or
other
materials
between
the
gallery
and
the
table.
B
Attendees
in
the
gallery
may
not
approach
the
table
space
permitting
opposition
caucus
staff.
They
said
that
the
table
to
assist
their
members,
however,
members
have
priority
to
sit
at
the
table
at
all
times.
If
debate
is
exhausted
prior
to
three
hours,
the
ministry's
estimates
are
deemed
to
have
been
considered
for
the
time
allotted
in
the
schedule,
and
the
committee
will
adjourn.
B
The
points
of
order
will
be
dealt
with
as
they
arise
and
in
individual
speaking
times
will
be
paused.
However,
the
speaking
block
time
and
the
overall
three-hour
meeting
clock
will
continue
to
run
any
written
material
provided
in
response
to
questions
raised
during
the
main
estimate
should
be
tabled
by
the
minister
in
the
assembly
for
the
benefit
of
all
members.
The
vote
on
the
estimates
in
any
amendments
will
occur
in
Committee
of
Supply
on
March
16
2023.
B
amendments
must
be
in
writing
and
approved
by
parliamentary
Council
prior
to
the
meeting
at
which
they
are
to
be
moved.
The
original
amendment
is
to
be
deposited
with
the
committee
clerk
with
20
hard
copies.
An
electronic
version
of
the
signed
and
original
should
be
provided
to
the
committee
clerk
for
distribution
to
committee
members.
B
Finally,
the
committee
should
have
the
opportunity
to
hear
both
questions
and
answers
without
interruption
during
estimate
debate,
debate
flows
through
the
chair
at
all
times,
including
instances
when
speaking
time
is
shared
between
a
member
and
the
minister
I,
would
now
invite
the
minister
of
environment
and
protected
areas
to
begin
with.
Your
opening
remarks
and
I
have
10
minutes
well,.
H
Thank
you,
Mr,
chairman
and
good
morning.
Everyone
I'm
pleased
to
present
the
budget.
Estimates
for
Albert
environment
and
protected
areas
with
budget
2023
Alberta
environment
in
the
protected
areas
is
continues
its
focus
on
reducing
emissions
by
supporting
Innovation
and
investment
in
technology
and
conserving
Alberta's
Rich,
diverse
Landscapes
and
biodiversity
for
future
Generations
in
meaningful
and
sustainable
ways.
We
continue
to
find
efficiencies
and
curb
costs
while
providing
important
environmental
oversight
and
conservation
efforts.
H
H
This
increase
includes
additional
funding
for
the
Technology
Innovation
and
Emissions
reduction
or
tier
fund,
important
flood
mitigation
projects
and
support
for
species
at-risk
programs.
It
also
includes
reinstated
funding
for
the
oil
sands
monitoring
program
and
the
wetlands
replacement
program
I'll
go
into
it
a
bit
more
into
a
bit
more
detail
about
some
of
our
main
priorities
in
the
coming
in
the
coming
year,
with
respect
to
tier
Alberta
is
making
great
progress
on
lowering
emissions
through
our
realistic
Common
Sense
approach.
H
As
with
budget
2022
budget
2023
maintains
our
commitment
to
the
tier
fund,
which
is
supporting
Innovative
Technologies
that
are
cutting
emissions
and
also
keeping
our
businesses
competitive
budget
2023
includes
800
million
dollars
of
tier
spending
over
three
years.
That's
from
2023
to
2026.
funding
for
projects
and
programs
that
will
support
jobs,
reduce
emissions
and
help
albertans
adapt
and
become
more
resilient
to
climate
change.
H
Funding
includes
continued
investments
in
programs
delivered
by
key
Partners
like
emissions
reduction,
Alberta
Alberta
innovates
and
the
municipal
climate
change
action
center
tier
fund
Revenue
estimates
increased
from
the
2022-23
budget
to
the
estimate.
Therefore,
more
funding
is
allocated
for
programs
supporting
technology
and
Innovation
and
Emissions
reductions.
H
H
Alberta
recently
updated
the
tier
system
allowing
the
province
to
keep
its
own
industrial
carbon
pricing
system,
rather
than
having
to
use
the
federal
system
on
January
1st
2023
Alberta's
price
per
ton
of
carbon
dioxide,
CO2
emissions
Rose
from
fifty
dollars
to
sixty
five
dollars
per
ton
for
large
industrial
emitters
and
will
continue
to
increase
by
fifteen
dollars
each
year
until
it
reaches
a
hundred
and
seventy
dollars.
A
ton
in
2030..
H
This,
along
with
the
tightening
emissions
intensity,
performance
standards
for
regulated
facilities,
prevents
the
federal
carbon
pricing
system
from
applying
in
Alberta,
and
that's
good
news
by
updating,
Alberta's
tier
regulation
and
carbon
price
schedule.
Alberta's
government
is
ensuring
our
industry
stay
competitive,
while
saving
hundreds
of
millions
of
dollars,
they'd
otherwise
have
to
spend
under
ottawa's
system.
H
These
updates
will
result
in
increased
revenue
for
tier,
which
will
continue
to
be
invested
in
clean
technology
and
Innovation
programs
to
the
tier
system
and
additional
tier
funding.
Also
meets
items
outlined
in
the
premier's
Mandate
letter
to
environment
protected
areas,
including
standing
up
for
Alberta's
jurisdiction
to
manage
our
resources
and
further
supporting
technology
and
Innovation
through
the
tier
fund.
H
Alberta
has
seen
an
enthusiastic
response
to
funding
programs
under
the
tier
program,
demonstrating
that
our
Industries
are
eager
to
reduce
emissions
and
get
our
economy
back
on
track.
We'll
continue
to
empower
our
Industries
with
support
from
the
tier
fund
on
Carbon
on
ccus,
carbon
capture,
utilization
and
storage.
An
additional
387
million
dollars
over
four
years
would
be
reserved
in
the
tier
fund
for
investments
in
future,
carbon
capture
utilization
and
Storage.
The
ccus
funding
is
in
addition
to
the
800
million
dollars
of
tier
spending
over
three
years.
H
H
A
zone-wide
assessment
will
look
at
everything
from
air
quality
to
plants
and
trees
in
the
area
to
animals
that
wander
through
each
season.
The
assessment
will
comment
will
establish
common
environmental
Baseline
for
the
DIC
that
will
reduce
Project
Specific
requirements
for
environmental
impact
assessment.
This
will
reduce
time
and
costs
for
amp
applicants
and
improve
the
competitive
advantage.
H
A
zone-wide
assessment
will
also
allow
for
stronger
future
assessments
of
environmental
performance
and
management.
The
project
will
receive
900,
024-25
and
300
000
the
next
year,
combined
with
other
government
initiatives
that
support
the
petrochemical
industry,
such
as
the
Alberta
petrochemicals
incentive,
probe
program
and
ongoing
red
tape
reduction.
The
DIC
has
the
potential
to
attract
billions,
billions
of
dollars
in
capital
investment
and
support.
Thousands
of
direct
and
indirect
jobs
by
2030.
H
The
industry-funded
oil
sands
monitoring
program
or
osm
balances
our
diverse
energy
sector,
with
strong
commitment
to
environmental
stewardship
through
monitoring,
evaluation
and
Reporting
prior
authorities
identified
by
a
multi-stakeholder
governance
structure,
25
million
dollars
a
year
would
be
reinstated
for
osm
through
2324
through
2025-26
environment
and
protected
areas
was
working
in
the
past
to
establish
a
new
third-party
entity
to
be
responsible
for
the
financial
Administration
part
of
this
program.
The
Department
was
unable
to
find
a
third
party
who
could
perform
this
function
better
than
the
department
itself,
so
the
EPA
will
continue
to
administer
this
program.
H
Osm
is
supported
by
an
annual
budget
of
up
to
50
million
dollars
paid
for
by
the
industry,
environment
and
protected
areas
collects
and
administered
administers.
This
dedicated
revenue
on
behalf
of
the
program
and
its
partnering
organizations
with
funds
allocated
on
approved
annual
work
work
plans,
airshed
organizations,
budget
23,
allocates
818
thousand
dollars
in
core
operational
grants
and
400
000
to
support
an
expansion
of
our
work
with
air
Partners.
This
will
increase
our
Contracting
of
routine
operations
to
airshed
organizations.
H
There
are
about
75
permanent
air
monitoring
stations
across
Alberta,
operated
by
airshed
organizations
and
our
ministry.
The
ministry
is
responsible
for
operating
20
of
those
permanent
stations.
Airshed
organizations
are
community-based,
not-for-profit
multi-stakeholder
holder
organization
that
operate
Regional,
Networks
The
increased
funding
in
budget
2023
will
help
the
Calgary
region
airshed
Zone
operate
the
air
quality
station
in
Airdrie
funding
will
also
support
the
Alberta
Capital
air
shed
and
operating
four
quality
monitor
stations
in
St,
Albert,
East,
Edmonton,
Landrum
and
Macaulay
stations
as
well
as
Lethbridge.
H
This
will
allow
our
department
to
refocus
our
existing
resources
on
Emergency
Response
support
and
Reporting,
responding
to
air
quality
priorities
that
are
important
to
albertans
flood
mitigation.
Flooding
is
another
important
issue
in
our
Province
disrupting
the
lives
of
albertans
and
our
economy
too
often
in
recent
years.
In
fact,
flooding
has
become
one
of
Alberta's.
Oh
sorry,
to
interrupt.
B
Minister,
thank
you
for
that.
For
the
hour
that
follows
members
of
the
official
opposition
and
the
minister
may
speak
honorable
members
you'll
be
able
to
see
the
timer
for
the
speaking
block,
both
in
the
committee
room
and
on
Microsoft
teams.
Members.
Would
you
like
to
combine
your
time
with
Minister
and
Minister?
What
do
you.
I
I
The
objective
2.6
addresses
Reclamation
and
Remediation
responsibilities,
and
my
first
set
of
questions
are
related
to
this
policy
objective.
With
respect
to
the
recent
Pearl
Lake
oil
sands
mine
incident,
the
Alberta
energy
regulator
issued
an
environmental
protection
order
against
Imperial
oil
for
two
releases
at
its
Curl
Lake
facility.
One
release
is
still
ongoing.
A
second
release
still
needs
to
be
remediated.
I
Substances
that
were
reportedly
released
include
arsenic,
sulfide
and
F2
hydrocarbons,
which
are
a
component
of
diesel
fuel.
Now
both
your
government
and
the
AER
and
Imperial
oil
have
all
stated
that
there
are
no
impacts,
but
no
one
has
provided
any
public
data
to
prove
that
that's
true,
when
our
caucus
was
briefed
by
the
AER
in
this
matter
on
Tuesday,
we
were
told
that
this
matter
was
under
investigation.
H
Well
sure
it's
an
unfortunate
happened
at
curl
and
I
think
we
we
need
to
learn
from
it
and
do
better
I
think
we
need
to
start
by
looking
at
what.
What
are
the
processes
were
they
followed
and
should
they
be
enhanced
and
I?
Think
right
now
we're
seeing
a
situation
where
there's
there's
a
bit
of
a
loss
of
confidence
and
Trust
in
the
processes
and
the
regulator
and
the
whole
situation
when
a
First
Nation
group
is
feeling
they
weren't
properly
informed
of
the
risks
and
the
information?
H
That's
a
problem
so
I'm
committed
to
to
take
a
look
at
all
of
that
and
look
at
whether
the
processes
need
enhancement
and
I
know.
There's
been
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
concern
and
finger
pointing
back
and
forth
on
the
regulator
on
our
government
on
the
federal
government.
We
need
to
do
better
and
I
think
it
needs
to.
We
need
to
take
a
step
back
and
understand
those
processes,
whether
they
were
followed
and
whether
they
need
to
be
improved.
H
Now,
it's
not
typically
the
government's
responsibility,
or
it
would
be
very
unusual
to
insert
ourselves
into
Communications
about
a
sub
a
matter.
That's
under
compliance
enforcement
by
a
quasi-judicial,
independent
regulator.
That
said
we
we
can
look
at
the
processes
around
it
and
and
look
at
the
situation
in
general
and
there's
a
number
of
things
that
our
government
is
doing
outside
and
in
addition
to
the
the
compliance
and
and
monitoring
that's
underway
on
the
site
by
the
regulator
and.
H
I
H
You
well,
we
number
one:
we've
we've
got
we've
reached
out
to
the
and
we
with
the
municipality
of
wood
Buffalo
and
we're
doing
independent
monitoring
with
the
government
of
Alberta
and
the
municipality.
H
We
also
have
the
oil
sands
monitoring
program
that
I
referenced
in
the
opening
statement,
which
is
50
million
dollars
a
year
program
with
multi-stakeholders,
including
industry,
indigenous
organizations,
environmental
organizations,
Community
Federal
and
provincial
government
to
monitor,
monitor
the
oil
sands
they're
analyzing.
This
analysis,
Downstream
by
the
oil
sands
monitoring
program.
We
also
our
government,
has
four
quality
water
quality
monitoring
stations
on
the
muskeg
river,
and
with
that
we
there
haven't
been
any
concerns
raised
to
our
department
of
water
quality
issues.
That
would
indicate
at
any
time
that
anything
spilled
in
the
water.
H
We've
looked
back
to
some
of
the
the
data
going
back
to
May
when
the
first
leak
issue
started
and
there's
no
indication
that
there's
been
leakage.
That
said,
we're
continuing
to
with
monitoring
to
make
sure
that
we
haven't
missed
anything.
We
take
this
extremely
seriously
any
concerns
that
drinking
water
would
be
impacted,
Wildlife,
the
environment,
our
waterways.
Our
watersheds
is
of
great
concern
and
I
and
I'm
committed
to
taking
a
look
at
the
entire
processes
to
see
where
things
may
or
may
may
have
gone
wrong
and
I.
H
Think
the
starting
point
is
looking
at
the
difference
between
compliance
orders
that
the
AER
issues
and
environmental
protection
orders
the
first
time
I
found
out
about
this
incident.
Myself
was
February
7th.
It
was
the
same
time
the
federal
government
found
out
about
it
and
probably
the
Northwest
government,
and
that's
because
it
was
an
environmental
protection
order
which
requires
a
very
high
degree
of
notification
and
a
Communications
plan
by
the
company.
It
really
kicks
into
gear
a
high
emphasis
on
notification.
H
Some
of
those
same
processes
are
not
in
place
for
a
compliance
order
and
that
that's
an
area
that
both
the
AER
has
said.
It's
committed
to
looking
at
we're
committed
to
looking
at
and
I
think
you
probably
saw
recently
the
federal
government
has
said
we
need
to
to
work
together
to
see
if
their
processes
and
our
processes
are
need.
Improvement
and
I'm
committed
to
that.
I
My
original
question
Minister
was
whether
or
not
you
could
inform
the
committee
on
the
scope
of
the
on
the
scope
and
the
objective
of
the
investigation.
That
is
current
that
the
AER
is
currently
conducting,
because.
G
Remember
our
opposite
is
asking
a
line
of
questioning
which
is
well
outside
of
the
scope
of
this
Committee.
In
my
personal
opinion,
Minister
has
already
answered
the
independent
AER
as
a
quasi-judicial
board
outside
of
government
been
clear
on
that.
She
has
been
clear
on
her
answer
in
that
I.
Don't
see
how
this
relates
to
a
budgetary
item,
anything
within
the
business
plan
or
any
funding
towards
it.
G
I
You
Mr
chair,
I,
I,
mean
page
48.
Key
objective
2.6,
clearly
states
that
addressing
Reclamation
and
Remediation
responsibilities
is
an
objective
of
the
environment
ministry.
Here
we
have
a
very
high
profile
case
of
a
site
that
needs
to
be
remediated
and
reclaimed,
and
there
are
a
lot
of
questions
that
need
to
be
asked
about
how
the
policies
will
impact
this
particular
site.
So
I
think
that
these
questions
are
well
with
within
order.
B
Thank
you,
members
and
prepare
to
rule
on
that.
I
think
we're
kind
of
walking
a
pretty
fine
line.
I
I
feel
that
the
question
line
of
questioning
does
fall
under
the
jurisdiction
of
the
ministry.
However,
I
do
think
that
the
minister
gave
a
pretty
good
answer
to
your
your
question.
However,
it
is
your
time
we're
here
being
able
to
answer
questions
for
the
the
public
and
the
and
the
Alberta
taxpayers.
B
If
you
want
to
continue
down
on
on
one
line
of
questioning
for
the
entire
hour,
that's
your
time.
It's
it's
up
to
you!
I
I!
Don't
think
it
would
be
the
best
use
of
your
time,
but
go
ahead
and
administer
feel
free
to
answer
or
not
answer
any
questions
that
come
forward.
H
I
can't
comment
on
ongoing
investigation
and
compliance
matter.
What's
happening
with
respect
to
that
particular
incident,
I
think
those
questions
would
have
to
be
to
be
directed
to
the
independent
regulator.
What
I
can
comment
is
the
overall
process
and
policies
and
whether
there
needs
to
be
Improvement,
but
in
terms
of
what's
happening
at
site.
It
is
an
independent
investigation
that,
and
it's
a
legal
matter
and
those
questions
would
be
better
directed
to
the
AER.
I
And
thank
you
Minister
and
unfortunately,
the
the
AER
provided
the
same
roadblock
when
they
briefed
us
and
I
appreciate
the
fact
that
they
took
the
time
to
brief
us.
But
every
time
we
ask
them
a
question,
their
answer
was
invariably
some
variation
on.
We
can't
tell
you
because
it
will
impact
the
investigation,
but
they
don't
explain
what
kind
of
Investigation
is
undergoing,
what
the
when,
when
they
expect
the
investigation
to
be
completed.
I
Appreciate
that
there's
independent
monitoring
now
going
on
in
the
regional
Municipality
of
what
Buffalo
you've
got
the
oil
sands
monitoring
program
and
for
water
quality
monitoring
stations
in
the
general
area.
However,
we
know
that
these
kinds
of
releases
are
very
local
in
nature
and
those
distant
water
monitoring
locations
likely
wouldn't
pick
up
something
for
for
quite
some
time.
I
B
Influence
those
decisions
she's
made
it
very
clear
that
her
answers
on
this
matter
and
that
you
can't
release
any
information,
I'm
sure
that
once
the
report
is
done
and
the
investigation
is
done,
those
numbers
will
be
introduced
and
and
put
forward
to
the
public
I'm
not
going
to
allow
further
questions
on
this
matter.
So
please
change
your
line
of
questioning.
I
B
B
I'm
calling
you
to
order
I'm
I'm
telling
you
that
further
questions
on
this
matter
will
not
be
allowed
and
tolerated
she's.
Given
you
the
answer
you,
you
know
full
well
that
she
is
obligated
not
to
comment
and
influence
the
investigation.
So
please
change
your
line
of
questioning
there.
There's
many
lines
in
the
budget
that
you
can
ask
questions
on.
There's
information
in
the
in
other
documents
that
that
fit
well.
Within
the
question
of
this,
it's
going
to
be
a
long
three
hours.
I
I
This
kind
of
data
is
routinely
made
available
without
even
having
to
go
through
the
foip
process
for
all
kinds
of
oil
sands
operation
operators
it.
What
is
the
process
I
guess
by
which
a
member
of
the
public
who's
interested
in
understanding
who
seeing
the
data
here
related
to
this
particular
incident,
should
go
through
to
get
access
to
it?.
H
What
I
can
say
is
that
oil
sands
monitoring
committee
data
is
public.
Our
water
quality
data
is
public.
All
of
that
is
public.
We've
deployed
Enviro
EPA
staff
up
to
up
to
the
area
up
to
the
site,
I
believe
there
are
indigenous
groups
now
on
site
and
have
been
given
access
to
the
site
to
to
investigate
it
and
I
think
our
role
here
is.
H
We
can't
comment
about
the
the
particular
event
because
it
is
under
investigation,
but
what
we
can
do
is
take
a
look
outside
of
that
event
on
the
policies
and
the
processes,
whether
the
process,
that's
that
exists
was
followed,
whether
what
that
process
is
whether
it
was
followed
and
what
enhancements
and
improvements
are
needed
and
I
think
we're
we're
at
a
stage.
My
goal
here
is
to
make
sure
that
we
continue
with
trust
and
confidence
in
the
in
the
regulatory
process
in
the
Environmental
Protection
process.
H
It's
important
that
indigenous
groups
in
the
public
can
communities,
have
confidence
and
we're
committed
to
take,
take
to
crack
open
the
whole
the
whole
processes
and
take
a
look
at
the
things
that
the
government
can
look
at
on
policies
and
processes.
It's
under
investigation,
so
on-site
I
think
those
questions
have
to
be
deferred
to
the
AER.
I
G
Is
needlessly
a
repeating
questions
related
to
this
incident
over
and
over
again
I
have
not
yet
we're
15
minutes
into
their
block
of
questioning
I
haven't
heard
one
page,
one
line
item
anything
relating
to
the
budgetary
issues
whatsoever.
G
And
I
think
we
should
move
on
to
the
business
at
hand
once
again
chair,
which
is
getting
back
to
the
issues
that
relate
to
the
budget
as
laid
before
us.
I
think
you've
mentioned
that
there
is
a
lot
of
issues
that
can
be
discussed
here
and
related
to
line
items
that
deal
with
the
ministry
itself
directly.
I
have
not
yet
heard
one
chair,
so
I'd
like
I,
find
this
a
point
of
order
on
just
repeated
question
line
of
questioning
going.
Nowhere.
I
B
I
think
you
prepared
to
rule
on
on
this
and
and
again
I've
said
many
times
in
committee.
The,
Hour,
That,
Remains
or
the
44
minutes
to
remain.
Are
the
members
time
how
they
choose
to
use.
It
is
up
to
them
if
they
choose
to
waste
their
time
on
repetition
minister
is
under
no
obligation
to
answer
any
questions.
She
can
quote
Dr
Seuss
if
she
wants
in
her
in
her
answer.
B
B
B
B
The
premier
is
under
or
the
minister
is
under
absolutely
no
obligation
promotion
if
under
absolutely
no
obligation
to
answer
your
questions,
and
so,
if
you
want
to
continue
down
this
path,
I
would
suggest
that
you
stick
to
the
business
plan
budget
line
items
and
get
some
answers
for
Albert
engineer.
Constituents.
H
So
what
I,
what
I
have
what
I
can
commit
to
is
to
look
at
the
processes?
Were
they
followed
in
this
circumstance,
and
should
they
be
enhanced
in
this
case
I
found
out
about
the
incident?
The
same
time,
the
indigenous
community
did
on
February
7th
now
I
do
understand
that
the
when
the
first
compliance
matter,
there's
there's
two
separate
incidents.
Here
there
was
a
slow
seepage
through
the
the
fill
in
the
tailings
pond
which
started
in
May
of
2022,
and
that
was
under
a
compliance
order.
H
Compliance
compliance
enforcement
mechanisms
in
the
AER
I
understand
that
the
indigenous
groups
were
notified
back
in
May
of
22
about
an
incident
the
and
then
the
emergency,
the
Environmental
Protection
order
in
February
7th
came
out.
That's
when
I
was
noticed
and
that's
when
the
the
more
significant
higher
level
higher
threshold
of
notification
came
into
play.
That's
what
I
think
we
need
to
commit
to
is
to
look
at
those
processes.
H
This
is
this
is
something
that's,
but
rather
than
everybody,
pointing
their
fingers
at
one
another,
pointing
pointing
the
fingers
at
the
regulator
pointing
the
fingers
at
the
governments
pointing
the
fingers
at
the
the
company.
Let's
sit
down
and
let's
fix
it.
Obviously,
if
there's
a
situation
where
groups
feel
they
weren't
informed,
let's
look
at
the
policies
and
the
processes
and
whether
there's
enhancement
committed
committed
to
do
that.
I
Help
the
committee
understand,
then,
what
this
process
of
reviewing
the
processes
and
suggesting
improvements
will
will
look
like.
Certainly
some
people
are
suggesting
that
the
office
of
the
information
and
privacy
commissioner
should
look
into
this.
What
I
guess
Minister?
What
does
the
minister
have
in
mind
for
a
review
and
when
can
albertans
expect
the
results
of
that
review?
I,
don't.
E
A
I
B
Caution,
I
will
I
will
recommend
that
you
continue
your
questioning,
like
I,
said
the
ministers
already
answered
the
question.
She's
explained
to
you
the
difference
between
a
compliance
order
and
an
environmental
protection
order,
she's
committed
to
investigating
to
see
if
there's
any
improvements
that
we
can
do
as
a
province
that
that's
her
job
in
her
Department's
job.
B
And
if
you
continue
down
this
line
of
questioning
and
don't
get
the
answers
you
want.
I
made
a
comment
the
other
day
that,
if
you
climb
down
rabbit
holes,
don't
be
surprised
if
you
run
into
a
rabbit
once
in
a
while,
and
if
you
continued
on
this
line
of
questioning
you're
going
to
be
wasting
your
time
you're,
not
halfway
into
your
one
hour
session.
What
what
have
you
got?
You've
got
an
explanation
from
the
minister
I
thought:
a
very
good
one.
She
she
was
informed
of
this
on
February
7th.
B
She
says
there
are
issues
and
problems
and
they're
going
to
investigate
ways
to
deal
with
those
I.
Don't
know
what
more
she
can
answer
for
you
at
this
point
on
these.
So
if
you
want
to
continue
down
this
line
of
wasting
your
own
time
in
albertans
taxpayers
time
not
getting
the
answers
other
than
what's
already
in
the
paper,
everything
that
that
is
possible.
The
information
on
this
case
is
already
available
publicly
in
the
paper.
There's
nothing
more
that
the
minister
can
add
to
it.
Go
ahead,
Mr
doc.
J
Thank
you,
chair,
I,
just
think
they
bring
the
temperature
down
a
little
bit
here
and
suggest
that
I
felt
that
the
I
felt
that
the
member
and
the
minister
were
having
a
useful
and
productive
interchange
and
and
only
became
difficult.
J
B
I
I
agree
with
you,
and
the
minister
has
answered
the
same
same
question
the
same
way
three
times
so
I,
you
know
like
I,
say:
they're,
there's
many
light
items
in
the
business
plan
and
the
budget.
If
we
want
to
continue
down
a
case
that
she
can't
comment
on
she's
already,
given
her
answers
on
the
compliance
order,
Environmental
Protection
orders
I
thought
quite
reasonably.
H
Well,
I
guess:
I
would
just
reiterate
that
we
are
prepared
to
look
at
the
what
the
the
things
that
are
within
the
scope
of
of
the
department
and
the
government
to
look
at
the
policies
and
the
processes
whether
they're
followed,
whether
they
need
enhancement,
we're
prepared
to
to
look
at
that
and
I.
Think
there's,
there's
processes
within
within
the
legislation
on
how
to
to
you
know
to
direct
the
regulator
to
look
at
the
processes.
H
Those
rules
are
generally
made
and
compliance
rules,
the
the
procedures
and
the
directives
around
how
that's
done
is
generally
inside
the
regulator.
There
are
ways
for
the
government
to
to
use
to
to
give
policy
direction
to
the
regulator
and
that's
how
I
would
propose
to
to
do
that.
Let's,
let's
bring
all
the
parties
together
and
especially
the
indigenous
communities
and
environmental
organizations,
the
communities,
the
industry,
the
stakeholders
and
say,
did
we
have
a
miss
here?
H
Is
there
something
in
the
policies
that
can
be
improved
and
my
my
first
look
at
it
is:
let's
take
take
a
look
at
what
it
says
about
compliance
orders
and
what
the
notification
around
it,
because,
as
I
say,
I
I
learned
about
this
the
same
time
as
the
indigenous
groups
did.
Another
thing
is
we've:
we've
already,
you
know,
opened
the
dispute
resolution
process
with
the
Northwest
Territories,
who
also
learned
about
it.
Around
the
same
time
I
did
and
on
notification
to
the
the
Northwest
Territories.
That's
under
a
process
to
look
at
the
processes.
I
Thank
you
very
much
for
that
answer.
Sorry,
do
you
have
a
do?
You
have
a
timeline
for
completing
that
review.
H
No,
no
I,
don't
it's
just
this
is
an
evolving
situation.
I
think
it
just
needs
to.
It
needs
to
start
and
I
think
we
need
lots
of
involvement
from
the
indigenous
groups
and
and
engagement
with
with
those
groups,
so
it
it
may
take
some
time.
I
Environmental
Protection
orders
set
out
a
number
of
deadlines
for
Imperial
oil
to
submit
plans
that
must
be
approved
by
the
director
of
communications
plan
and
control,
containment
and
delineation
plan
monitoring,
plan,
Wildlife
mitigation
and
monitoring
plan,
the
remedial
action
plan
and
a
reporting
plan.
Now,
when
we
ask
the
AER,
they
did
not
require
Imperial
oil
to
develop
any
of
these
plans
with
consultations
with
First
Nations.
I
H
Well
again,
I
can't
insert
myself
into
a
quasi-judicial
independent
process
of
the
the
regulator
I've
been
informed
by
the
regulator.
This,
at
the
same
as
as
you
have
that
Imperial
is
in
compliance
with
all
the
directives,
directives
and
directions
under
the
Environmental
Protection
order.
What
all
is
we
can
do
is
look
at
the
process,
whether
that
process
was
followed
and
again
what
improvements
there.
There
could
be.
H
That's
that's
our
role.
I
can't
I
can't
give
directions
to
Imperial.
That
would
be
within
the
scope
of
the
regulator.
I
Undertaking
a
review
of
how
the
Alberta
energy
regulator
interacts
with
First
Nations
to
make
sure
that
their
treaty
rights
are
respected
when
incidents
like
this
occur.
H
Again,
we
just
we
have
to
look
at
the
processes,
whether
they
were
followed
and
whether
they
need
to
be
enhanced
and
most
of
that's
around
the
compliance
order
and
but
I
think
this
is.
This
is
a
an
area
where
we
need
trust
and
confidence
in
the
regulator,
the
regulatory
process.
We
need
our
communities
and
Indigenous
groups
to
feel
that
their
waterways
are
safe,
their
drinking
water
safe
and
our
role
as
government
would
be
to
look
at
the
policies
and
see
if
there's
any
enhancement
needed.
I
So
this
comes.
This
incident
comes
at
a
time
when
the
federal
government
is
also
considering
allowing
oil
sands
operators
to
release
effluent
from
their
tailings
ponds
into
the
Athabasca
River.
The
incident
in
Curl
Lake
has
raised
serious
questions
about
whether
oil
sends
operators
and
our
Regulators
can
be
trusted
to
do
this
safely
and
in
an
open
and
transparent
Manner
and
in
a
way
that
respects
treaty
rights.
H
Well,
I
think
the
the
federal
government
is
reviewing
the
treat
and
release
requirements
and
regulations
on
treat
and
release
water
into
the
waterways.
We
we're
working
with
them.
We're
we're
working
with
them.
I
believe
they
originally
were
to
have
some
regulations
in
place
and
some
guidance
in
place
in
2023
they're.
H
Taking
the
time
to,
we
expect
it'll
be
done
in
2025
they've
been
amended
to
finalize
those
timelines
to
2025.,
there's
no
policy
decisions
at
all
related
to
the
treatment
and
release
of
potential
release
of
oil
sands,
water,
mining,
tailing
ponds,
water,
nothing
has
been
decided
yet.
The
time
frame
for
that
has
been
bumped
to
2025
and
that's
a
federal
federal
government-led
initiative,
and
they
do
have
authority
in
that
over
constitutional
authority
over
fish
and
Fisheries.
I
Page
97
of
the
government
fiscal
plan
shows
that
in
fiscal
2022-23,
more
money
was
spent
from
the
tier
fund
on
debt
reduction
and
the
War
Room
than
on
carbon
emission
reductions
projects.
The
budget
estimates
show
that
more
than
200
million
dollars
will
be
spent
on
debt
reduction
and
the
War
Room
this
year.
H
H
I
would
I
agree
with
you,
I'd
like
to
see
all
of
it
all
of
it
used
for
emissions
reduction,
there's
there's
so
many
opportunities,
I,
look
at
emissions
reduction
and
all
the
good
things
that
are
happening
across
our
province
in
every
single
industry
to
reduce
their
emissions.
They
need
the
the
additional
support
for
Innovation
and
Technology
they're
doing
a
lot
of
good
work
and
by
the
way
the
the
work
they're
doing
is
actually
track.
Attracting
investment,
it's
creating
jobs,
it's
creating
creating
thousands
of
jobs
and
attracting
hundreds
of
billions
of
dollars
of
investment.
I
I.
I
I,
please
that
we
agree
on
this
matter.
What
what
is
preventing,
then
the
ministry
from
spending
all
of
the
money.
I
I,
understand
that
when
the
tier
fund
was
set
up,
I
I
think
it's
even
a
legislative
requirement
that
Beyond
100
million
dollars,
some
of
it
go
into
debt
reduction
and
funding
the
War
Room.
Will
the
minister
consider
bringing
forward
legislation
to
make
those
changes
so
that
all
of
the
money
in
the
tier
fund
can
be
spent
on
emissions
reductions,
programs.
I
H
Okay,
there's
some
information
that
might
be
helpful
here.
There's
it's
not
coming
from
the
tier
fund,
it's
coming
from
the
Department
budget,
so
there's
3.5
million
is
allocated
under
the
Department's
budget
in
the
to
continue
the
Watershed
resilience
and
restoration
programs,
so
that
program
provides
funding
to
municipalities
and
non-profit
organizations
like
irrigation
and
communities
in
indigenous
groups
to
enhance
Watershed
resiliency
for
floods
and
droughts
and
through
that
program,
since
2014,
over
40
million
dollars
has
been
invested
through
that
program
to
support
76
organizations.
H
So
so
that's
I,
guess
the
answer
in
that
the
funds
are
there
they're,
just
in
a
different
part
of
the
budget.
I
H
I
I
have
no
doubt
that
it's
good
to
be
glad
to
hear
that
now,
I
I
do
want
to
go
back
to
the
tier
fund.
So
I
I
understand
that
by
2526
the
tier
fund
will
have
accumulated
387
million
dollars,
which,
in
your
opening
statement,
you
said,
would
be
invested
in
CC
us
projects.
I
guess
I'm
wondering
why.
Why
are
you
accumulating
all
of
that
money
to
expand
in
the
out
years?
Why
are
you
not
investing
that
that
money
in
as
projects
this
year.
H
So
we're
we
are
investing
a
number
of
items
in
through
emissions
reduction
Alberta
and
over
the
last
few
years,
there's
been
a
number
of
projects
we've
invested
in
on
on
ccus
to
to
kick-start
some
of
these
projects.
They
won't
be
constructed
and
operational
until
the
the
outlier
years,
so
we
have
been
investing
in
it
already.
H
The
387
million
will
will
be
available
in
the
in
the
future,
and
I
can
go
over
yeah
and
so
that
those
programs
are
still
going
to
be
developed
on
what
that
387
million
has
been
will
be
used
for,
of
course,
you're
you're,
probably
aware
of
all
the
different
Federal
funding
available
for
ccus
from
the
investment
tax,
credit
to
the
Canada
growth
fund
and
the
contracts
for
different
difference.
H
We're
we're
setting
aside
some
funds
to
have
some
flexibility
on
how
to
deal
with
ccus.
We
are
investing
in
it
right
now.
In
fact,
we've
spent
we've
invested
already
1.8
billion
dollars
and
through
emissions
reduction,
Alberta
and
other
and
Alberta
innovates.
We've
invested
significant
amounts
in
in
studies
and
Innovation
and
Technology
we're
also
investing
this
year.
H
Three
million
dollars
in
the
carbon
knowledge,
Network
yeah,
the
carbon
knowledge
networks,
which
is
World
leading,
and
it
pulls
together
all
the
expertise
across
the
country
and
carbon
capture,
to
be
able
to
share
that
knowledge
and
with
each
other
so
that
we
can.
The
Lessons
Learned
can
be
used
by
other
projects.
So,
as
I
say,
this
is
a
very,
very
big
area
that
I
have
personally
invested.
You
know
interested
in
because
I
don't
see
a
path
to
Net
Zero
without
carbon
capture
and.
I
So,
what
what
is
the
I
mean?
The
government
is
investing
significant
sums,
as
he
said
in
in
carbon
caption
storage.
It's
my
understanding
that
currently
in
Alberta
we're
storing
somewhere
on
the
neighborhood
of
one
Megaton
a
year
in
of
carbon
emissions
in
these
kinds
of
projects
by
2025-26,
when
this
387
million
dollars
will
be
accumulated
in
the
tier
fund.
What
is
the
government's
objective
for
total
storage
of
carbon
emissions
in
these
ccus
projects?.
H
We're
we're
looking
at
that.
We
we
know
when
you've
seen
the
oil
sands
industry,
along
with
the
pathways
initiative,
I
I'm,
going
to
throw
a
number
out
there.
I
hope
I'm,
not
wrong,
but
I
think
it's
14,
14
megatons,
that
they
are.
They
are
aiming
for
by
20,
30
I,
hope,
I'm
correct
on
those
numbers,
but
it's
significant,
but
you
look
right
across
every
sector.
There's
opportunities
for
sequestration
and
Emissions
reduction,
everything
from
petrochemicals
to
production
of
electricity
from
natural
gas
to
fertilizers,
cement,
there's
biodiesel
facilities.
H
Hydrogen,
for
instance.
If,
if
you
have
a
international
company
looking
to
build
a
hydrogen
facility,
they
want
to
build
a
net
zero
hydrogen
facility,
they
need
carbon
ccos
and
if
we
don't,
if
we
don't
have
it
here
in
Alberta,
they'll
cite
it
somewhere
like
Louisiana
or
Texas.
So
we
were
working
collaborate,
get
the
federal
government
to
make
sure
we
don't
lose
these
projects
and.
I
And
I
I
appreciate
that
there
are
a
lot
of
people
who
say
they
are
interested
in
it.
Certainly,
the
pathways
Alliance
has
made
some
big
promises
with
respect
to
the
amount
of
emissions
reductions
they're
going
to
achieve
through
carbon
capture
and
storage,
but
they
are
under
some
criticism
for
not
actually
having
a
credible
plan
in
place
to
to
reach
that
goal.
What
is
your
department
doing
to
make
sure
that
the
objectives
with
respect
to
emissions
reductions
through
carbon
caption
storage
are
actually
going
to
be
met?
Like
I
guess,
do
you
have?
I
Do
you
have
a
Target?
Do
you
have
an
overall
Target,
you
said,
sector
by
sector?
Will
you
be
looking
at
sector
by
sector
targets?
What
what
framework
will
be
in
place
to
ensure
that
the
people
who
say
they
want
to
reduce
emissions
through
this
technology
actually
achieve
what
they've
set
out
to
do.
H
I
think
that
would
be
a
business
decision
from
those
individual
companies.
We
certainly
want
to
see.
We
want
to
see
them
reducing
and
we're
working
with
them,
we're
working
on
a
on
a
on
a
climate
strategy
and
I'm.
Just
looking
at
some
of
the
announced
projects
already
on
the
on
the
ccos
projects,
most
of
them
have
put
a
estimated
capture
number
carbon
capture,
and
these
are
these:
are
projects
everything
from
power
generation
to
to
oil
sands,
to
to
pipelines
to
to
hydrogen
facilities,
so
most
of
them
have
individual.
I
Absolutely
and
and
I
think
it
would
be
even
greater
if
they
achieved
those
objectives
and
I
think
it's
government's
role
to
make
sure
that
those
commitments
that
are
made
are
our
chief,
so
I'm
just
asking.
Does
the
government
does
your
department
have
any
plan
to
help
those
companies
achieve
the
objectives
that
they
set
out
for
themselves?
Well,.
H
Yes
and
I
think
that's
why
we're
we've
set
aside
one
we've
we've
set
aside
the
carbon
carbon
hubs,
25
ccos
hubs
have
been
awarded
and
those
fall
within
the
department
of
energy.
We
also
have
set
aside
funding
where
research
and
investment
we're
working
with
the
the
the
federal
government
has
set
aside
significant
funding
with
their
investment
tax.
Credit,
more
will
be
needed,
more
will
be
needed.
You
look
South
to
the
United
States
and
the
invest
the
IRA,
the
incentives
that
are
being
offered
at
85
dollars.
H
A
ton
are
significant
and
we
need
to
to
make
sure
that
as
a
country,
we're
able
to
to
be
competitive
in
that
so
I
think
a
lot
of
the
key
on
this
is
not
this.
This
isn't
a
question
of
have
of
using
a
hammer.
It's
using
a
stick,
incentives
and
incentives
and
the
right
programs
to
to
ensure
these
companies
are
able
to
decarbonize
and
and
invest
in
some
of
these
ccos
projects.
I
Change
now
to
key
objective
1.6,
which
deals
with
the
prevention
of
Entry
of
invasive
species
into
Alberta.
Now,
according
to
the
Department's
own
reports,
there
are
only
five
inspection
stations
for
watercraft
in
the
entire
province,
making
it
very
easy
for
muscle,
foul
boats
to
enter
Alberta
undetected.
I
H
H
This
program
itself
has
intercepted
19
muscle-fouled
boats
in
2020
the
2022
season
and
that
prevented
possible
invasive
species,
establishment
and
provincial
water
bodies
that
2023
season,
which
is
coming
up
and
we'll
commence
on
the
May
long
weekend
includes
Five
inspection
stations,
that's
starting
on
the
May
long
weekend
and
those
you
know
to
go
back
to
in
2022
some
of
the
results,
those
watercraft
inspections,
stations,
intercepted
19
boats
out
of
8032
inspections,
so
they
did
8
000
over
8
000
inspections
last
year,
and
all
of
these
boats
originated
in
Canada
from
New
Brunswick,
Quebec,
Ontario
and
Manitoba,
and
out
of
the
19
that
had
a
problem,
10
had
been
previously
inspected
in
another
Province
and
notification
shared
on
six
of
these.
H
So
this
emphasizes
the
need
for
redundancy
in
watercraft
inspections,
we
need
multiple
lacrosse
provinces
and
the
meaning
maintaining
a
Baha'I
inspection
Network
across
North
America,
so
just
conservation
staff
inspected
in
2002
the
conservation,
canine
staff,
but
we
have
the
dogs
inspected.
383
watercraft
for
the
presence
of
invasive
muscles
as
well.
I
So,
even
though
the
Alberta
irrigation
districts
feel
that
this
is
inadequate,
the
government
is
not
responding
to
their
request
to
increase
the
amount
of
inspection.
I
I
Alberta
currently
only
conserves
about
15
percent
of
its
land
area,
with
legal
protections
that
are
defined
by
the
international
Union
for
the
conservation
of
nature,
as
as
protected
areas,
a
number
that
hasn't
changed
at
all.
Since
this
government
was
elected
in
2019..
H
It's
an
area
that
I
personally
am
very
interested
interested
in,
and
I've
I've
seen
polling
that
this
is
important
for
the
public
too.
They
they
love
their
their
natural
spaces,
they
love
their
species
and
Wildlife,
and
so
I
can
can
tell
you
a
few
of
the
things
that
we're
we're
doing.
Our
approach
and
I
can
start
with
the
crown
land
conservation,
Pro
approach,
and
we
we
focus
on
seven
points
and
its
coordination
and
transparency
and
conservation
work
through
a
conservation
framework.
We
recognize
stewardship
and
management
on
a
suite
of
Landscapes.
We
have
evidence-based
monitoring.
H
We
support
voluntary
conservation
efforts,
we're
working
with
industry
to
align
their
conservation
opportunities
and
there's
a
huge
huge
push
internationally
to
push
our
our
companies
to
to
do
more
on
biodiversity
and
conservation.
In
fact,
there's
sustainable
financing
available
for
that
and
we're
we're
also
working
on
integrating
climate
elements
into
biodiversity
conservation
actions.
I
Those
sound
like
admirable
goals,
but
none
of
those
things
actually
increase
the
amount
of
area
of
land
that
falls
under
the
legal
protections
that
are
internationally
accepted
as
being
required
to
be
in
place
to
consider
to
me
to
conservation
goal.
Does
the
government
intend
to
increase
the
amount
of
land
area
that
falls
under
these
kinds
of
legal
Protections
in
the
2023-24
year?
Well,.
H
We
are,
we
certainly
are.
Are
you
know
it's
it's
an
important
thing
to
increase
I,
think
you're,
talking
about
the
30
by
30
30,
by
30
targets
for
a
conserved
space,
there's
conversations
over
what
that
could
include.
We
see
huge
opportunities
in
in
Alberta
and
Canada
to
look
at
our
grasslands.
Our
grazing
leases
that's
conserved,
conserved
space,
but
I
can't
tell
you
a
couple
of
the
things
we're
doing
in
very
successful.
Is
the
hair,
the
Caribou
habitat
recovery
program,
2018,
there's
more
than
40
million
dollars
have
been
invested
into
that
program.
H
Over
a
million
trees
have
been
planted
to
help
reduce
landscape
fragmentation,
including
contributions
from
industry
in
budget
2022.
We
can
be
committed
to
10
million
dollars
a
year,
starting
this
year
in
2023-24,
we've
and
I
think
a
really
good
story
that
we
probably
need
to
talk
about
a
little
bit
more
and
I'm
not
going
to
I
I,
never
pronounce
this
name
right,
but
we've
done
the
the
kitsakino
nuanine
Wildland
and
I'm
going
to
ask
Tom
to
say
it.
H
To
knw
expansion
that
was
in
2022
and
that's
through
a
collaboration
with
indigenous
communities,
industry
and
and
the
expected
protected
areas
now
more
than
775
000
Acres,
so
that
connects
Landscapes
and
conserves
Wilderness
habitat
for
species
at
risk.
I'd
like
to
see
more
of
those
opportunities
move
forward.
We
also
have
the
Moose
Lake
management
area
up
in
up
in
the
oil
sands
that
was
finalized
in
2021.
That
allows
for
the
management
of
resources
while
meeting
the
the
needs
of
the
the
local
indigenous
peoples
and
we
have
multiple
species
at
risk
programs.
So
this
is.
H
This
is
an
area
that
I
think
that
the
government
for
many
many
years
has
been
doing
a
great
job
at,
but
we
probably
don't
tell
that
story
well
enough
that
that
knw
expansion
is
is
like
a
really
good
news
story
like
that
is
a
really
good
effort.
That's
done
a
lot
to
protect
lands
and
to
include
indigenous
people,
so
I
think
we
need
to
do
to
do
more
in
that
area
and
we
need
to
highlight
and
celebrate
the
stuff.
That's
already
done.
I
On
the
issue
of
species
at
risk,
but
would
bison
have
been
deemed
under
imminent
threat
under
the
federal
species,
at
risk
act
and
in
2021
this
government
conducted
a
60-day
consultation
period
on
a
draft
management
plan,
but
to
date
the
management
plan
has
not
been
finalized
and
in
the
interim,
logging
has
occurred
in
the
area
that
has
put
some
members
of
the
ghost
herd
near
Wabasca
at
risk.
Why
has
this
government
dragged
its
feet
for
two
years
on
finalizing
this
agreement?.
H
H
1.7
million
for-
and
this
isn't
just
for
the
Bisons
for
the
sage,
Grouse
Alberta
native
Trout,
the
wood
bison
and
the
Sand
Dune
habitat
there
of
that
500
000
has
been
allocated
for
conservation
and
recovery
of
wood
bison,
and
so
there's
a
one
thing
I'd
like
to
highlight,
and
it's
in
2019
that
we
finalized
department
and
the
minister
at
the
time
Minister
Nixon
established
the
Ronald
Lake
Cooperative
management
board.
H
So
that's
the
first
Cooperative
management
board
for
wildlife
species
in
Alberta,
and
it
has
representatives
from
the
federal
government
as
well
as
a
provincial
indigenous
Community
stakeholders,
ingos
and
resource
Industries,
and
it's
to
advise
the
minister
on
matters
related
to
the
long-term
sustainability
of
that
herd.
The
Ronald
Lake
bison
herd,
including
sustainability
of
indigenous
traditional
use
and
culture
and.
H
There's
and
I
think
I
noted
that
500
000
was
allocated
to
the
bison
and
we
are.
We
are
Drafting
and
negotiating
working
right
now
on
a
section,
seven
of
section:
11
conservation
agreement
between
e
Triple,
C
and
Canada
Parks
agency
and
our
department
to
address
the
habitat
and
population
risks
to
the
Ronald
Lake
and
wabaska
wood
bison
herds.
As
I
noted
before
we,
we
established
in
2019
The
Cooperative
management
board
for
the
Ronald
Lake
heard,
and
we
are
of
course
I
think
through
the
Section
11
agreement.
I
H
Well,
it
does
there's
two
parties
on
that,
so
we're
negotiating
it
right
now,
with
the
federal
government.
I
think
we've
got
some
precedent
on
that
with
the
section
11
agreement
on
Caribou,
so
we've
got
some
history
and
some
relationships
within
the
department
departments
working
on
that
now
and
those
things
do
take
some
time
and
they
have
to
be
done
right
because
it's
Federal
provincial,
it's
not
entirely
within
our
our
Realms.
So
we
want
to
do
it
right
and
we
want
to
wanna.
A
I
I
want
to
turn
back
to
page
248
or
2,
not
240.,
page
48,
key
objective
2.6
address
again
addressing
liability
management.
Your
department
is
finishing
its
review
of
the
Mind
Financial
Security
program,
but
has
done
so
with
no
public
hearings
or
any
public
input.
H
Thank
you.
So
we
are
in
the
middle
of
the
of
a
review
for
the
Mind
Financial
Security
program.
H
We
are
engaged
with
in
that
review,
with
like
lists
of
of
people
with
from
everything
from
industry
to
environmental
organizations
and
literally
dozens
of
indigenous
indigenous
groups,
communities,
environmental
organizations
to
to
ensure
that
the
mines
operators
are
providing
sufficient
funds
that'll
adequately
cover
remediation
and
cleanup
costs.
So
that's
under
active
review.
H
I
Yeah,
so
on
on
the
issue:
First
Nations
engagement,
certainly
It
First
Nations
reported
to
the
media
that
your
staff
were
defensive
and
less
than
forthcoming
and
that
Midway,
through
the
process
of
consultation,
your
government
changed
the
rules
on
how
companies
can
guarantee
the
money
for
cleanup
of
these
mine
Financial
liabilities.
H
You
know
I
I,
can't
comment
on
that.
I.
Wasn't
there
and
I'd
refer
you
back,
I'd,
probably
direct
you
back
to
something
that's
relevant
to
the
to
the
budget
matters
and
the
the
business
plan
at
hand.
I
Currently,
the
fund
only
has
about
a
billion
dollars
in
Securities,
while
estimates
for
liabilities
range
from
30
billion
to
130
billion
dollars
at
a
time
of
record
revenue
for
oil
sense
companies.
Why
is
your
government
failed
to
protect
taxpayers
by
collecting
adequate
cleanup
funds
from
oil
sands
operators
for
the
last
four
years?.
H
Okay,
so
so
the
there's
two
two
relevant
things
here,
so
the
the
Mind
Financial
Security
program
requires
security
to
be
held
and
there's
two
options
available
for
securing
the
Reclamation
liabilities.
I
Right
and
so
right
now,
the
current
system,
the
auditor
general
has
clearly
said
that
this
current
system,
overvalues
oil
sands
assets,
certainly
people
who
were
involved
in
the
consultation
process
to
review
the
program
said
that
that
part
is
not
going
to
change.
Why
is
the
ministry
not
considering
changing.
B
Thank
you
very
much
Minister
for
your
patience
there.
That
concludes
the
first
portion
of
questions
for
the
official
opposition.
We'll
now
move
on
to
20-minute,
for
the
government,
caucus
and
I
see
Mr
sigurton
with
his
hand,
UPS.
G
Well,
thank
you
chair
first
to
the
minister.
Is
it
okay
if
we
go
back
and
forth?
Of
course,
excellent?
Thank
you
Minister
first,
on
first
and
foremost,
I
just
want
to
thank
you
for
your
advocacy
on
this
file.
I
know
how
hard
you've
been
working
over
the
last
four
years
and
as
somebody
that
comes
from
the
oil
and
gas
sector,
I'm
extremely
proud
of
of
the
work
Alberta
has
done
over
the
years
globally,
we're
leaders
and
we're
moving
in
the
right
direction.
G
We
continue
to
see
progress
and
I'm
really
happy
to
see
that,
as
so,
I
am
going
to
come
back
to
to
the
topping
a
topic
of
oil
sounds
monitoring
and
maybe
for
the
benefit
of
Our
member
opposites,
benefit
phrase
it
in
a
way
that
should
be
for,
for
estimates,
I'm.
Looking
at
page
83
of
the
estimates
line,
8.2
a
line
item
deals
with
the
topic
of.
G
Of
course,
oil
sounds
monitoring
which,
as
you've
stated
previously,
is
a
joint
commitment
between
the
federal
government
and
Alberta
to
implement
scientifically
comprehensive,
integrated
and
transparent
environmental
monitoring
of
oil
sands
development
activities
and
I.
I
would
just
like
to
to
see
if
you
can
provide
a
bit
more
information
on
and
expand
on.
The
oil
sounds
monitoring
program
and
what
you're
doing
with
the
funding
in
budget
2023-24.
H
Dollars
identified
in
budget
for
to
support
the
oil
sands
monitoring
program
and
again
that
is
that
is
recovered
from
industry.
It
is
industry,
funding
we
collect
it
and
then
administer
administer
the
funding.
It's
dedicated
revenue
on
behalf
of
the
program
and
the
partnering
organizations,
as
I
mentioned
earlier,
there's
numerous
organizations
involved
in
the
monitoring
program,
so
we
were
in
the
past.
We
were
look
we're
looking
to
establish
a
third
party
entity
to
administer
the
financial
side
of
the
program.
However,
we
determined
that
we
could
do
the
department
could
do
it
better.
H
We
weren't
able
to
identify
a
better,
better
place
to
do
it
so
that
the
therefore
the
25
million
dollars
a
year
has
been
restored
and
we
are
allocated
in
the
budget
to
25.26,
so
how
we
administer
it
is
the
funds
are,
are
collected
and
they're
allocated,
based
on
annual
work
plans
approved
by
the
oil
sands
monitoring
program
oversight
committee.
So
they
give
us
work
plans
and
we
organize
it
as
a
gain.
H
It's
there's
indigenous
communities,
Department
Canadian,
federal
government
oil
sand
industry
in
that
and
right
now
the
the
committee
is
working
on
their
their
plan
for
the
fiscal
23
24
meeting
I
just
like
to
to
point
out
a
you
know.
A
couple
of
highlights
on
that
this
is
this
is
a
a
program.
That's
been
in
place
since
2017.,
there's
18
indigenous
communities
involved
and
they
co-developed
that
that
business
plan
and
their
their
plant
work
plan
with
the
vision.
That's
that's
suitable
to
to
ensure
protection
of
the
environment.
H
We
some
of
the
there
there's
been
quite
a
good
success
story
in
there
of
what
the
program
has
yielded
over
the
years,
they've
produced
over
500
products
and
supported
the
program
over
300
peer-reviewed
papers,
technical
reports,
programs,
presentations,
Workshop
material,
there's
no
place
on
earth
that
is
more
heavily
monitored
than
the
oil
sands,
or
that's
putting
more
funding
a
level
of
funding
and
concern
and
focus
on
Environmental,
Protection
and
oversight
than
than
the
oil
sands.
So
I
think
I
think
we
just
50
million
dollars
a
year
with
a
very
collaborative
I.
H
G
Thank
you,
Minister,
actually
that
it
was
a
little
bit
learning
there
for
me.
I
had
no
idea
that
we
were
as
far
as
that
indigenous
component
for
code,
evolving
is
is
critical
and
I
was
unaware
that
they
were
such
an
integral
part
of
what's
Happening
up
there.
So
thank
you
for
that.
Maybe
just
additionally,
can
you
give
a
breakdown
of
the
changes
in
this
budget
for
this
important
project.
H
Before
we
just
wait,
a
million
dollars
a
year
is
continued
to
be
utilized
and
spent
on
oil
sands
monitoring.
The
changes
in
this
budget
are
just,
and
in
the
past,
in
previous
years,
where
we
were
looking
at
at
using
a
third
party
outside
party
for
the
financial
Administration,
so
that
we
weren't
able
to
find
a
party
that
would
do
it
better
than
the
government
itself.
So
we
brought
back
that
25
million
into
the
budget,
but
there's
there's
no
changes
overall,
it's
the
same
50
million
the
same
50
million
dollars.
A
H
G
Excellent
thanks
for
that
clarification.
Minister
now
I'd
like
to
turn
a
little
bit.
The
shift
gears
here
a
bit
item:
nine
three
on
page
83
of
the
estimates.
This
particular
item
deals
with
the
oil
sands
innovation,
which
relates
to
a
funding
program
that
supports
emission
reductions
for
facilities
with
the
highest
emission
intensity
of
bitumen
production
in
the
Alberta
oil
sands.
G
Could
you
maybe
provide
some
additional
information
and
expand
on
this
program
and
how
funding
actually
supports
emissions
reductions
in
relation
to
these
hot?
You
know
the
higher
intensity
areas
of
the
bitumen
production.
H
H
So
those
recipients
include
a
number
of
the
operators
in
in
the
oil
sands
in
in
situ
and
what
the
program
does
is
it
can
fund
up
to
a
hundred
percent
of
project
costs
as
long
as
those
projects,
and
this
is
important
as
long
as
they
support
emissions
reduction
and
Emissions
intensity
improvements.
So
this
has
allowed
that
fund
to
fund
new,
well
pads
and
infill
Wells
and
more
projects
like
solvent,
assisted
extraction
and
I
think
we
can
see
some
some
good
results.
H
We've
all
heard
those
statistics
about
admissions
intensity
reductions
in
the
oil
sands
since
at
and
what
what
they're
doing
and
that's
that's
unbelievable,
there's
no
place
else
in
the
world
that
has
reduced
emissions
intensity
to
the
extent
of
the
oil
sands
and
that's
only
enabled
through
Innovation
and
funding
and
Technical
research,
so
I
think
project
has
been
has
been
extremely
helpful,
just
to
give
a
bit
more
background
on
it
in
January
of
2020,
some
of
those
recipients
transitioned
to
the
near
tier
to
the
new
tier
fund,
and
that's
resulted
in
over
50
percent
compliance
cost
reductions
on
average.
H
So
for
just
think,
just
to
give
a
little
bit
more
for
2022-23
there's
been
three
million
23
24.
There's
3
million
allocated
to
to
that
fund
to
cover
potential
Grant
payments
amounts
rising
from
recent
changes
to
the
tier
program.
H
G
Excellent
thanks,
thank
you
for
the
clarification
Minister
and
it
just
kind
of
staying
a
little
bit
on
the
greenhouse
gas
emissions
theme.
If
you
could
turn
to
measure
2A
on
page
49..
This
relates
to
the
pricing
of
greenhouse
gas
emissions
through
provincial
regulation
and
how
it's
intended
to
improve
the
further
responsibility
and
sustainable
economic
development
in
Alberta,
by
providing
a
financial
incentive
to
lower
greenhouse
gas
emissions
and
and
states
the
target
for
the
next
three
years
is
61
percent.
Can
you
expand
on
how
these
Financial
incentives
are
going
to
help
obtain
that
goal.
G
H
So
much
good
news
about
about
the
tier
fund.
You
know
and
I'm
very
proud
of
the
work
that's
been
done
over
the
years
on
on
the
tier
fund.
Just
recently,
you
probably
noted
that
we
were
able
to
achieve
equivalency
again
on
the
fund
with
the
the
federal
government
and
ensure
that
we
keep
this
program
for
managing
missions
here
in
Alberta,
as
opposed
to
the
the
federal
carbon
backstop
kicking
in
and
I'm,
not
sure
if
the
question
was
related
to
the.
G
It
was
related
to
the
provincial
Financial
incentive
to
lower
greenhouse
gas
emissions
that
contribute
to
climate
change
and
the
target
for
the
next
three
years
of
being
61
percent
under
measured
to
a
okay.
H
H
Other
smaller
facilities
can
opt
in
and
there's
there's
definitely
a
reason
reason
to
opt
in
because
it
it
actually
keeps
the
the
federal
carbon
tax
from
being
applied
to
their
facility,
the
prior
to
22
23,
the
the
percentage
was
influenced
by
the
there.
It
was
was
46
prior
to
to
2019
and
now
there's
it
bumped
up
to
61
percent.
H
So
you
know
I
just
think,
there's
a
there's.
A
tremendous
competitive
advantage
to
be
regulated
under
tier
as
opposed
to
the
federal
federal.
The
federal
carbon
tax,
keep
the
money
in
Alberta.
It
goes
into
the
tier
fund,
which
then
is
reinvested
in
Innovation
and
Technology
reduction.
G
Thanks
again
for
that
Minister,
just
one
quick
question
to
wrap
up
that
is:
have
are
there
any
long-term
targets
in
place
as
we
move
forward.
G
H
From
industry,
I
think
well,
I
think
61,
it
means
61
of
all
of
our
and
in
the
province
are
regulated
by
by
tier
and
I.
Think,
that's
that's.
A
pretty
good
good
Target,
that
is
our
Target
going
forward,
is,
is
61
and
obviously
our
our
other
Target
is
to
to
reduce
emissions
overall
from
our
our
emissions.
H
G
You're
definitely
speaking
my
language
when
you're
seeing
a
maiden
Alberta
solution,
because
I
think
those
are
are
the
best
type
of
solutions
as
we
continue
to
move
forward
next
and
and
moving
over
to
tier
Minister
I'm.
Looking
at
page
50
of
the
business
plan
and
I'm,
particularly
interested
in
their
revenue
of
the
Technology
Innovation
and
Emissions
Reduction
Program
fund
I'm
just
a
little
curious
as
to
why
tier
fund
revenue
is
forecasted
to
be
lower
in
2025-26,
compared
to
where
it's
going
to
sit
in
the
next
two
years.
G
H
Yes
and
I
I
can
imagine
there
are.
There
are
lots
of
questions
with
the
price
of
carbon
going
up
by
15
a
year.
How
come
in
outlier
years?
In
a
couple
years,
we
collect
less
than
what
we're
collecting
now.
But
those
are
those
are
expectations
and
projections
for
how
much
companies,
whether
they're
going
to
use
credits,
offset
credits
and
Emissions
credits
for
making
paint
or
whether
they're
going
to
choose
to
comply
with
their
their.
H
You
know
with
their
their
obligation
patients
by
paying
into
the
fear
tier
fund,
so
that
we're
projecting
obviously
that
in
those
years
that
there's
going
to
be
more
credit,
use
and
less
compliance
payments
into
the
fund
and
you're
modeling
and
you're,
predicting
behavior
of
companies
and
with
which
way
and
which
method
they're
going
to
take
to
comply.
H
So
we've
seen
you
know
an
increased
interest
in
major
reductions
of
dhds
by
a
number
of
companies
and
that's
due
in
part
to
the
rising
price
of
carbon
and
the
increased
stringency
that's
being
brought
in
under
tier.
So
some
of
those
projects
are
using
ccus
which
which
reduces
their
emissions,
which
of
course
is
will
reduce
their
overall
compliance
obligations
under
tier
we're
also
expect
so
we
we
we
expect
reducing
of
emissions.
H
That's
part
of
the
program
is
to
reduce
emissions
plus
to
to
set
up
a
fund
for
for
compliance,
so
we
are
expecting
emissions
to
go
down
and
we
are
expecting
in
those
outlier
years
that
more
credit
usage
will
be
will
occur.
G
Just
to
stay
on
that,
of
course,
page
50
of
the
business
plan
and
and
the
tier
and
this
this
fund
Revenue
just
want
to
discuss,
maybe
a
few
more
of
the
impacts.
How
did
reducing
the
threshold
for
opt-in
facilities
benefit,
Alberta,
Industries.
H
H
There
are
all
of
these
facilities
are
emissions
intensive
and
trade
exposed
with
emissions
over
a
certain
threshold,
so
we've
allowed
we've
allowed
companies
to
opt
into
the
tier
regulation
voluntarily,
so
they
would
choose
to
opt
in
when
the
facility
determines
that
the
costs
under
the
tier
system,
including
any
compliance
with
the
with
the
program,
are
less
than
the
costs
would
be
under
the
federal
carbon
tax,
so
in
in
consultation
with
industry
and
having
heard
from
them,
we've
reduced
the
threshold
in
when
we
renewed
the
tier
regulation.
H
So
there's
about
50
000,
smaller
facilities
that
are
aggregating
into
250
Aggregates
under
tier,
so
that's
also
another
program
that
we
have
that
allows
smaller
facilities,
such
as
gas
plants,
Gathering
systems
to
aggregate
together
to
be
able
to
avoid
the
federal
carbon
tax
and
we're
finding
companies
want
to
do
that
because
it's
it's
our
our
system
is
done
in
a
way
that
makes
sense
and
is,
is
more
manageable
for
those
companies.
G
Well,
thank
you
for
that.
Minister
I
got
about
54
seconds
left
here,
but
I
I
would
just
like
to
say
to
a
lot
of
the
smaller
companies
over
the
past
few
years.
We're
really
excited
to
have
the
opportunity
to
opt
into
tier
met
with
a
lot
of
them,
so
lowering
that
threshold
I
think
has
been
an
incredible
benefit
to
be
a
lot
allowing
more
to
take
part
in
that
important
program.
What
I'm
going
to
do
is
just
quickly
reference.
My
next
question
there's
only
30
seconds
left,
but
I
guess
it'll.
G
Allow
you
some
time
to
prep,
for
when
the
block
come
back,
I'm
going
to
be
moving
to
page
90
of
estimates
as
well
page
50
of
the
business
plan,
just
looking
at
what
and
understanding
how
we're
going
to
continue
or
your
plan
to
continue
allocating
money.
What
types
of
pro
projects
you're
looking
at
funding
through
tier
in
the
future,
to
be
able
to
keep
that
great
momentum
moving
forward.
B
Thank
you.
That
concludes
the
government,
Members
First
block
of
questions.
Now
we
move
to
five
minutes
of
questions
from
the
official
opposition,
followed
by
five
minutes
of
response
from
the
minister.
As
mentioned,
members
are
asked
to
advise
the
chair
at
the
beginning
of
their
rotation
if
they
wish
to
combine
their
time
with
The
Minister's
time,
if
she's
willing-
and
please
remember
that
discussion
should
flow
through
the
chair
at
all
times,
regardless
of
whether
or
not
speaking
time
is
combined
Smith,
you
have
the
floor.
I
H
H
The
review
is
ongoing
and
will
be
complete
in
in
2023
and
that's
obviously
that's
one
of
the
the
issues
that
will
be
discussed
and
and
addressed.
I
Why
why
allow
this
potentially
risky
Financial
financialization
of
oil
sense
liabilities,
instead
of
just
requiring
them
to
put
more
of
their
record
Revenue
into
the
fund?
Now
why?
Why
create
this
other
structure
that
could
potentially
put
the
taxpayers
at
even
greater
risk.
H
So
so,
right
now,
the
only
form
of
surety
bond
accepted
by
the
Alberta
energy,
regular
regulator
under
the
mine,
Financial
Security
program,
is
what's
called
a
demand
forfeiture
Bond
and
what
a
demand
forfeits
your
bond
is.
Is
it
allows
the
AER
to
diversify
the
institutions
that
provide
Reclamation
security
and
they're
only
accepted
from
providers
with
active
operations
in
Canada
and
a
minimum
of
an
a
a
rating
from
at
least
two
public
credit
rating
agencies?
So
the
albertex
captive,
Insurance
insurers
are
licensed
and
supervised
by
the
Alberta
superintendent
of
insurance.
H
Details
regarding
any
over
regulatory
oversight
of
those
companies
would
have
to
be
directed
in
in
s.
You
know
in
discussions
with
treasury
board
in
finance.
We
would
just
note
that
also
the
Alberta
energy
regulator
continues
to
accept
Reclamation
security
using
irrevocable
letters
of
credit
and
cash.
But
right
now
it's
the
the
forfeiture
bond
is
the
only
surety
bond
accepted
by
the
Alberta
energy
regulator.
I
H
So,
as
of
September
30th
of
2022,
the
Alberta
energy
regulator
held
at
912
850,
912
million
852
620
dollars
in
Reclamation
security
for
oil
sands
minds,
and
then
they
held
a
further
638
million
for
coal
mines.
So
the
Reclamation
liability
for
both
those
sectors
right
now
has
been
estimated
to
be
33
billion
for
those
sectors.
So
there's
a
large
difference
in
Reclamation
liability
to
security,
and
that's
because
the
there's
no
oil
sands
mine
has
reached
point
in
my
life,
where
the
full
cost
security
is
required.
H
So
this
means
that
all
oil
sands
minds
are
using
mostly
collateral
to
secure
their
Reclamation
liability
and
remember.
I
had
mentioned
there's
two
ways
to
calculate
Reclamation
liabilities
to
secure
them
under
the
program
mine,
Financial
Security
program,
which
is
under
review
right
now.
So
the
two
option
operate
options.
Our
operators
can
use
their
their
assets,
which
is
their
in-ground
reserves
for
oil
sands.
It's
the
the
bitumen
and
for
the
for
coal
companies.
It's
the
coal
Reserve,
so
they
can
use
that
collateral
against
their
Reclamation
liabilities
to
make
Security
payments.
H
So
that's
why
most
of
the
oil
sands
operators
are
choosing
option
one
to
use
their
collateral.
That's
not
the
case
with
the
coal
companies
to
use
their
their
collateral.
Obviously
they're,
looking
at
a
different
Horizon
on
on
life,
but
most
oil
sands
companies
are
using
collateral
to
secure
their
liabilities.
Thanks.
I
Thank
you
very
much,
but
it
and
part
of
my
question
I
stated
that
in
2018-2019
the
same
fund
held
940
million
dollars
in
Reclamation
security,
so
over
the
last
four
years,
there's
an
approximate
drop
of
30
million
dollars
in
insecurities
held
for
oil
sands
companies.
Now,
at
a
time
when
these
liabilities
are
increasing,
how
can
the
government
justify
decreasing
the
amount
of
security
held
by
the
fund.
D
H
I
can
go
back
to
is
say,
there's
two
two
main
methods
of
calculating
how
companies
hold
security,
one
they
can
use
collateral
for
their
security
and
the
the
other
they
can.
They
can
post
security.
So
the
the
some
of
those
questions
would
going
back
to
2019.
I
don't
have
those
answers,
but
the
reduction
I
understand
was
because
of
a
merger
which
returns
more
more
loan
security,
deposit,
okay.
So
there's
there
was
a
merger
within
the
oil
sands
which
resulted
in
loan
security,
deposit
being
returned.
H
I
I
Energy,
my
question
is
related
to
the
policies
that
drove
these
particular
Financial
results.
So
I
understand
that
there
is
a
merger
and
that's
why
why
there's
a
drop
yeah
of
30
million
dollars?
Okay,
I,
want
to
now
go
on
to
the
topic
of
subsidizing
oil
and
gas
liabilities
in
the
conventional
space.
On
page
88
of
the
estimates,
you
indicate
that
the
quasi-judicial
bodies
will
pay
out
over
14
million
dollars
this
year.
I
Four
documents
not
obtained
by
us
show
that
since
2019,
your
government
has
paid
out
somewhere
in
the
neighborhood
of
65
million
dollars
in
these
kinds
of
lease
payments
and
yet
has
only
recouped
somewhere
in
the
neighborhood
of
five
hundred
thousand
dollars.
That's
not
even
one
percent
of
the
total
amount.
H
Well,
I
think
you're,
referring
to
the
section
36
compensation
payments
and
on
page
it's
referenced
in
page
88
of
the
the
of
the
budget.
Non-Votable
estimates
estimates
amounts.
So
when
companies
don't
pay
oil
and
gas
companies
don't
pay
the
surface
holders,
we
make
sure
they're
paid
and
it
comes
out
of
the
environment,
Department
of
environment
protected
areas
budget.
H
So
we
try
to
recoup,
there's
obviously
a
number
of
those
companies
that
aren't
paying
landowners
that
we've
been
unable
to
to
recoup
money
for
and
as
simple
as
we'd
love
to
recoup
all
of
it
and
hold
them
accountable
for
all
of
their
responsibilities,
especially
paying
paying
landowners,
but
our
program.
What
we
do
if
the
company
isn't
paying
landowners,
we
want
to
make
sure
the
landowners
are
are
paid.
So
that
comes
out
of
comes
out
of
the
budget
and
is
is
part
of
a
section
37
payment.
So.
B
Interrupt
we
will
now
take
a
quick
five
minute
break,
followed
by
a
10
minute
block
for
the
government
caucus,
so
please
be
in
your
seats.
Five
minutes
goes
by
very
quickly.
A
A
A
A
A
A
G
So,
as
I
had
previously
previously
alluded
to
just
before,
we
got
to
the
end
of
our
last
block,
I
just
wondering
if
you
could
elaborate
a
bit,
because
there
is
a
substantial
investment
by
the
tier
fund,
what
type
of
projects
tears
focusing
on
right
now,
what
type
of
projects
are
being
invested
in.
H
It's
here
and
I'm,
going
to
start
with
with
some
of
the
results,
because
I
think
you
always
want
to
start
with
what
what
is
the
the
program
achieving
in
terms
of
emission
reduction,
so
the
with
with
the
tier
tier
with
the
with
the
tier
program,
we
have
194
megatons
of
total
compliance,
reduced
emissions,
194
megatons
of
reduced
emissions,
since
the
program
came
into
place.
The
original
since
2007.
we've
had
115
megatons
of
fund
credits
submitted
in
that
and
there
are
close
to
600
regulated
facilities
under
tier,
so
and
I.
H
Think
you
wanted
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
what
the
so
I
wanted
to
highlight
the
emissions
reductions,
because
I
think
that's
that's
important
and
we
sometimes
forget
to
do
that
is
to
highlight
that
it's
achieving
two
things:
it's
achieving
remission's
reduction,
it's
achieving
three
things:
it's
achieving
emissions
reductions,
but
it's
also
attracting
investment
and
it's
also
enabling
Innovation.
So
some
of
the
some
of
the
things
yeah.
H
So
some
of
the
things
that
are
being
supported
and
there's
499
million
from
the
tier
fund
invested
in
2023
1.34
billion
over
the
next
three
years
from
23
to
26..
H
So
that
also
includes
investments
into
that
are
led
by
other
departments
like
Alberta
energy,
so
the
tier
fund
is
used
to
support
the
the
two
commercial
scale,
carbon
capture
projects
we
already
have,
which
is
the
shell
Quest
project
in
the
Alberta
carbon
trunk
line,
the
ACT
TL
trunk
line.
It's
supporting
that
through
the
department
of
energy.
H
It's
supporting
the
the
coal
Workforce
program
for
the
wind
down
of
coal-fired
electricity
through
Department
of
energy,
and
it's
supporting
the
clean
hydrogen
Center
of
Excellence,
which
I
believe
is
under
it,
was
under
jei
it's
under
Tech
and
Innovation.
H
Now,
so
it's
there's
numerous
other
departments
in
our
government
that
use
tier
funds
for
their
initiatives,
so
we're
we're
supporting
our
department
is
continuing
to
invest
in
programs
that
are
delivered
by
some
of
our
partners
like
emissions
reduction
in
Alberta,
which
is
doing
some
fantastic
work
over
at
era,
and
also
the
municipal
climate
change
action
center
start.
First
with
the
m,
which
is
the
acronym
m
c
c,
a
c.
H
So
their
fundings
used
to
support
capacity
building
in
Alberta
communities
which
enables
communities
to
help
lower
their
emissions,
get
cleaner
sources
of
energy,
reduce
their
carbon
footprint.
Emissions
reduction.
Alberta
is
continuing
to
run
challenges.
That's
their
their
method
is
to
put
a
challenge
out
and
ask
for
applications
for
industry
for
funding
focused
on
technology
and
Innovation
alignment
with
their
business
plans.
I
was
very
fortunate
to
be
able
to
be
part
of
their
two
of
their
funding
announcements.
H
One
was
in
in
Egypt
at
cop27,
where
they
launched
a
a
funding
Challenge
and
just
a
few
weeks
ago.
Another
challenge
which
they
launched
in
Calgary
for
the
plastics
for
the
circular
economy
for
Waste
reduction.
So
they've
had
a
number
of
a
number
of
programs.
So,
additionally-
and
it
was
noted
earlier
that
there's
money
being
set
aside
and
held
for
CCS
projects,
future
projects,
387
million
dollars,
that's
being
being
held
aside
by
2026.
H
Continuing
with
the
tier
fund
to
support
era
missions
reduction
Alberta,
so
they
can
launch
their
next
challenge
and
continue
to
deliver
programs.
We
in
2023
we've
we're
building
on
the
there's,
already
been
344
million
in
tier
funding
for
era
programs
over
the
past
four
years,
so
from
2019
to
2023,
we've
allocated
344
million
to
era.
That's
those
challenges
that
that
I've
noted
that
were
were
underway
and
to
date.
So
it
goes
back.
Era
goes
back
to
you
know
numerous
years
prior
to
and
previous
versions
of
the
tier
program.
H
So
to
date
they
have
invested
884
million
to
date
in
246
projects
and
that's
from
2009.
It
goes
back
to
2009..
So
that's
resulted
in
40
megatons
of
cumulative
emission
reductions
so
again
to
talk
about
the
investment
and
the
technology,
as
well
as
having
emissions
reduction
results.
So
we've
had
in
the
past
we've
we've
had.
The
department
itself
has
used
some
of
the
money
in
things
like
the
Energy
Efficiency
carbon
capture,
use
and
storage
program
that
which
allocated
150,
151
million
of
tier
funding.
B
You
know
members
allowed
to
speak
for
more
than
five
minutes
at
one
point,
including
the
minister.
So
if
we
could
move
on
to
the
the
member
you're.
H
G
Well,
if
I
could
give
you
another
five
minutes
of
mine,
I
would
Minister
because
I
love
hearing
about
all
the
Investments
that
are
happening
from
that
tier
fund.
It's
it's
very
exciting
news,
I'm
just
going
to
quickly
one
last
question
because
I
know
my
colleagues
are
excited
to
ask
questions
too,
as
well
page
48
business
plan
key
objected
2-4
interested
to
see
that
now
the
ministry
is
focusing
on
establishing
a
climate
strategy.
H
Well,
I
think
tier
is
a
program
that
we
should
be
really
celebrating
and
it's
a
fundamental
to
to
emissions
reduction
and
any
of
the
climate
strategies
and
under
things
that
we've
undertaken
in
the
past.
But,
as
you
know,
there's
in
my
mandate
letter
there
is
a
requirement
or
an
ask
that
I
develop
a
meet
in
Alberta
climate
strategy,
we're
going
to
call
that
an
emissions
reduction
in
energy
development
strategy
and
I.
H
Think
if
we've
learned
anything
from
watching
watching,
what's
unfolded
over
the
last
decade
that
you
you
have
to
talk
about
both
things.
You
can't
talk
about
energy
development.
Unless
you
also
talk
about
emission
reduction
and
lowering
carbon
footprint,
you
can't
talk
about
emission
reduction
without
referencing
the
need
to
have
energy
security,
reliability,
affordable
of
energy.
H
So
you
knew
that
the
two
things
to
go
together
and
that's
why
we're
calling
it
both
an
emissions
reduction
and
energy
development
plan
will
focus
and
start
with
the
premise
that
our
goal
is
to
reduce
emissions
not
to
reduce
economic
activity
and
I.
Think
we
have
a
tremendous
track
record
in
this
province.
H
H
We're
going
to
highlight
that
and
be
able
to
to
talk
talk
about
the
emissions
reduction
potential
through
ccus
will
be
able
to
highlight
the
all
of
the
opportunities
I
call
them
opportunities
to
reduce
emissions
in
every
sector
across
the
economy,
including
including
oil
and
gas
sector,
including
Agriculture
and
Forestry,
and
heavy
industry
and
transportation
buildings.
All
the
opportunities
to
reduce
emissions,
because,
along
with
those
opportunities
to
reduce
emissions,
is
an
opportunity
to
attract
investment
and
create
jobs.
They
go
hand
in
hand.
Creating
reducing
emissions
actually
creates
jobs
brings
in
investment.
H
So
we're
we're
going
to
talk
about
it.
In
terms
of
that
highlight
where
we've
been,
what
our
track
record
is,
and
this
goes
back
decades,
where
a
province
leads
what's
underway
and
what's
next,
because
we
know
we
need
to
do
more
as
the
world
is.
A
global
reality
is
moving
towards
towards
net
zero
companies
who
want
to
invest
in
Alberta
want
to
know
that
they
can
build
a
net
zero
project
in
Alberta
and.
B
I
Thank
you
and
I'm
wondering
if
the
minister
would
be
willing
to
continue
to
share
time.
Thank
you
very
much,
so
my
next
question
is
related
to
line
10.2
in
the
government.
Estimates.
Environmental
and
public
lands
appeal
board.
I
noticed
that
there's
about
a
hundred
and
eighty
four
thousand
dollar
increase
in
the
budget.
I
So
this
budget
fails
to
make
any
meaningful
increase
in
the
amount
for
the
EAB
to
allow
it
to
catch
up
to
the
work
in
its
backlog.
H
So
we
are
actually
increasing
the
the
budget
and
increasing
the
the
available
funds
for
the
environmental
appeal
board
right
now.
I
can
just
give
you
some
background
on
it
and
I'm
aware
of
the
pressures
in
there
I
believe
there
is
a
staff
member,
that's
on
on
leave
and
I'm.
Very
much
aware
of
the
the
pressures
they're
under
the
board
is
currently
served
by
11
part-time
members
with
a
range
of
environmental
and
legal
backgrounds.
H
The
board
currently
has
eight
employees,
eight
ftes
for
board
Services.
The
our
department
also
provides
certain
Support
Services
in
areas
like
finance
and
human
resources.
H
So
the
there's
a
chair
in
the
board
one
serves
as
a
chair,
part-time
members,
so
the
the
I
am
aware
that
there
is
some
pressures
in
the
board
and
that's
why
we've
increased
the
funding
for
the
for
the
board.
H
Well,
I
think
those
decisions
are,
you
know
within
the
board.
They
hire
the
staff
that
they
need.
They've
they've
indicated
that
they
that
they
do
require
some
some
more
funding
and
that's
going
to
depend
from
year
to
year.
How
many
appeals
there
are
throughout
the
the
year,
how
much
lands
on
their
desk
for
appeals?
H
How
much
is
is
used
in
mediation
and
arbitration.
So
some
of
the
numbers
in
there,
like
a
majority
of
the
the
issues
that
come
to
them,
are
resolved
with
mediation
and
arbitration.
The
number
of
appeals
that
actually
land
on
their
desk
that
have
to
go
to
to
hearing
is
is
relatively
small,
so
it
varies
from
year
to
year.
So
just
some
backgrounds,
the
in
2021-22,
the
board,
received
26
appeals
and
received
10.
The
the
environmental
appeals
board
received
26
appeals
that
can
vary
from
from
year
to
year.
H
I
H
H
So
what
that
program
does
is
it
establishes
Wetlands
through
funding
Partnerships
for
a
collaborative
restoration
projects
across
the
province?
The
proponents
pursuing
activities
that
will
permanently
impact
wetlands
in
Alberta's
are
required
to
reclaim
replace
their
own
Wetland
or
pay
a
wetland
replacement
fee.
H
Some
highlights
of
that
program
for
2021-22
is
that
there
were
seven
projects
completed
with
three
municipalities
and
one
non-profit
organization.
It's
3.2
million
dollars
in
funding,
resulting
in
124
hectares
of
wetland
being
replaced
date.
The
program
is
funded
14
projects
across
the
province
equating
to
6.9
million
dollars,
replacing
282
hectares.
H
Projects
funded
through
the
program
can
include
financial
compensation
for
landowners,
hosting
Wetland
replacement
projects.
We
support
the
Wetland
policy
outcomes
in
the
following
ways.
Wetlands
and
their
benefits
for
the
environment
are
conserved
and
restored
in
areas
where
losses
have
been
high
and
they're
managed
by
avoiding
and
minimizing
negative
income
tax,
Surrey
and.
H
It
wasn't
in
that
meeting
so
I
sure
I
can't
comment.
What
was
was
sad
but
where
our
budget
is.
J
H
I
I
H
His
2019
report
we'll
have
to
take
that
away.
It's
we've
got
the
responses
to
the
2022
report,
but
that
was
a
number
of
years
ago.
We'll
have
to
take
that
one
away.
I
I
You're
getting
so
the
auditor
General's
2019
report
identified
that
the
environment
of
Parks
or
the
department
of
environment
parks
at
the
time
had
let
oil
sands
mines
off
the
hook
for
about
25
million
dollars
worth
of
standing.
He
had
determined
that
environment
Parks
was
owed
25
million
dollars
in
sand
and
gravel
royalties
that
the
oil
sands
mines
had
not
paid
I'm.
Just
wondering
what
steps,
if
any,
that
department
has
taken
to
claim
the
oil
sands
royalties,
that
the
auditor
general
identified
were
owed
to
environmental
parks.
H
So
it's
we
might
not
be
the
appropriate
one
state
to
get
to
be
able
to
give
you
the
answer
of
whether
it's
been
collected.
But
we
will.
We
have
it
in
the
record
and
we
will
endeavor
to
get
that
too.
But.
C
The
floor
well,
thank
you.
Mr,
chair,
I,
really
appreciate
it
and
Minister.
Thank
you
again
for
for
working
on
this.
We
have
a
little
bit
of
time
to
go
back
and
forth
if
you're
still
comfortable
with
them
absolutely,
and
this
is
friendly
fire.
So
it's
it's
probably
a
little
bit
better
than
what
you
had
to
deal
with
for
a
glass
bit
two.
H
C
So
Minister,
you
know
I'm
cuckoo
for
Cocoa
Puffs
when
it
comes
to
economic
corridors
and
responsible
development
and
everything
else,
and
there
was
a
couple
items
that
jumped
off
the
page-
and
you
said
in
your
opening
remarks
and
also
on
page
48
of
the
business
plan
under
initiatives
and
supporting
key
objectives.
So
there's
an
application
about
2.5
million
dollars
for
the
designated
industrial
Zone
pilot
project
for
2324,
so
albertans
recognize
the
importance
of
the
industry
of
Heartland
responsible
development.
Everything
else
along
those
lines.
C
I
have
a
few
other
things
written
down
here,
minister,
but
quite
honestly,
I'm
turning
50
and
left
my
glasses
at
home.
It's
a
little
fuzzy,
but
what
I
am
picking
up
on
it
and
what
you
can
tell
from
my
enthusiasm
is
over
that
project.
Again
risk
and
uncertainty
and
Regulatory
Compliance
items
are
are
always
putting.
You
know,
dollars
of
threat
and
investment
threat
and
then
having
such
a
robust
environmental
plan
that
we
do
and
the
best
place
to
do.
Business
I
just
want
you
to
tell
us
how.
C
How
much
is
this
going
to
help
by
having
a
clear
objective
and
Industrial
Zone
around
an
areas
of
pilot
project,
and
if
you
could,
please
tell
us
what
you've
heard
on
some
of
your
cop
visits
as
well.
In
this
context
of
you
know,
forward
leaning
and
what
we're
looking
at
here.
H
Sure
well,
first
of
all,
I
want
to
thank
you
for
the
work
you've
done
in
in
corridors,
economic
corridors
and
I.
Think
it's
you've
been
doing
that
for
a
very
long
long
time,
I
think
the
first
conversation
I
had
through
you
Mr,
chair
to
the
to
the
member
of
the
first
conversation
I
had
with
this
member,
was
about
corridors
and
the
importance
of
corridors.
H
So
thank
you
for
your
continued
continued
work
on
on,
because
it
really
does
reduce
the
uncertainty,
makes
it
more
predictable,
a
regulatory
framework
that
allows
companies
to
invest
because
they've
got
the
uncertainty.
The
the
certainty
of
timelines
and
the
ability
to
to
in
in
these
designated
corridors,
sometimes
shared
resources
of
regulatory
certainty,
commitment
that
there's
a
consultation
has
has
taken
place,
but
I
think
your
your
question
was
with
respect
to
the
the
work
with
municipalities
and
industries
around
the
DIC
designated
industrial
Zone
in
the
heartland.
H
H
That
of
you
know
from
all
stakeholders
from
industry
to
communities
to
knowing
what
the
rules
are.
So
it
also
it's
it.
A
lot.
You
know,
builds
upon
our
commitment
to
work
with
municipalities
and
industries
to
to
enhance
the
regulatory
efficiency
across
not
only
the
the
permeating
approval
of
projects
but
across
their
entire
life
cycle
of
Regulation,
and
it
gives
a
lot
more
certainty
and
it
also
allows
to
optimize
the
cluster
infrastructure,
the
other
infrastructure
on
site
and
focus
on
process
water
access.
H
We've
heard
a
lot
of
issues
in
in
the
Heartland
industrial
Heartland
about
water
issues
and
access
to
to
water.
It
allows
a
focus
on
on
that.
It
allows
for
topsoil
management,
some
coordination
and
and
with
electricity
transmission
within
the
zone,
and
it
also
it
helps
you
know,
achieve,
and
environmental
outcomes
for
air
and
water
quality,
so
that
work
we
have
no
doubt
is
driving
final
investment
decisions
for
various
companies
that
are
wanting
to
locate
in
the
industrial
Heartland
and
it's
encouraging
existing
Industries
to
continue
to
to
invest
in
their
operations
in
the
zone.
H
C
I
appreciate
that
Minister
and
the
other
is
some
of
the
feedback.
You
know.
The
second
part
of
the
question
is
the
feedback,
so
it's
very
comforting
again
in
those
areas.
It
also
allows
for
I
I
would
assume
under
that
by
the
program
for
to
your
point,
environmental
best
practices
to
take
place
so
once
you've
created
that
incubator.
If
you
would
around
those
areas,
you
that
pilot
program,
anything
that's
Lessons
Learned
within
there
and
within
that
zone
itself,
can
that
be
broadened
like?
Is
there
a
context
of
forward-looking
a
couple
years
out?
H
I
think
that
would
be.
That
would
be
the
goal:
there's
all
sorts
of
clusters
across
the
The
Province,
where
we
we
see
this
could
be
applicable
to
and
just
look
down
in
the
South
part
of
the
province
on
agri-food
development.
So
I
think
we
can
use
the
model
in
the
Heartland
designated
industrial
Zone
to
to
bring
bring
together.
It's
not
just
the
certainty
for
companies
and
the
regulatory
efficiencies,
it's
the
environmental
outcomes
and
being
able
to
to
protect
the
environment
and
and
water.
C
When
I'd
share
this
with
Minister
Horner
the
other
day
too,
so
at
a
CSG
conference
there
was
a
senator
from
Nebraska
down
there
talking
about
the
importance
of
water,
and
he
put
it
very
eloquently.
He
says
you
know
that
Whiskey's
for
drinking
water
is
going
to
be
for
fighting
over.
So
if
we
don't
protect
the
resources
we
have,
if
we
don't
have
some
of
these
new
effects
and
new
areas
where
we
look
at
our
industrial
usage
of
water
and
make
sure
it's
allocated
for
it,
stop
as
many
straws
coming
out
of
it.
C
We're
going
to
run
into
a
challenge,
so
other
jurisdictions
are
sealing.
That
and
I'm
really
excited
about
this,
obviously
and
caffeinated
up
with
it
as
well,
but
really
excited
about
this.
This
type
of
application,
one
of
the
other
other
other
items
that
came
out,
was
the
economic
or
I'm.
Sorry,
I
should
say
economic
and
environmental,
social
governance
that
always
draws
my
attention
but
being
environment,
social
governance,
Secretariat,
so
key
objectives,
2.1
and
48
also
talks
about
the
Albert
oil
and
gas
industry
and
spearheaded
development.
C
Strong
environmental,
social
governance
strategy,
I've
laid
out
greater
focus
on
its
high
standards.
However,
it's
currently
one
of
the
only
provinces
Incorporated
this
kind
of
strategy
into
this
government.
So
with
that,
can
you
go
over
what
it
means
to
have
an
ESG
framework
and
why
Alberta's
made
this
an
objective
to
take
the
lead
over
many
other
jurisdictions
and
establish
an
approach
and
I'm
hoping
it's
really
garnering
some
attention,
because
it's
not
just
talking
about
it.
Every
time
that
you
vote
on
that
world
stage,
people
are
extremely
excited
to
find
out.
You're
actually
doing
it.
H
This
is
that
we
started
the
ESG
Secretariat
I,
believe
it
was
in
the
20
2021
budget
to
to
set
it
up,
and
it
was
really
where
it's
the
the
first
sub-national
jurisdiction
that
is
working
on
an
ESG
framework
and
I'll
just
highlight
some
of
the
the
good
work,
because
this
the
ESG
Secretariat,
has
now
moved
over
from
executive
Council
into
into
environment
and
protected
areas
and
I
think
that's
a
great
place
for
it
to
be,
because
it's
there
really
is
a
very
significant
focus
on
the
E
and
ESG.
H
We
also
talk
about
social
and
governance,
but
primarily
and
in
a
lot
of
cases,
it's
it's
focusing
on
environmental
outcomes,
and
we
have
a
good
story
to
tell
like
we.
There
is
no
place
world
that
has
a
better
story
to
tell
than
Alberta
whether
it
is
whether
it
is
emissions
reduction,
whether
it's
Innovation
and
Technology,
whether
it's
the
tier
program.
We
have
a
great
story
to
tell
and
that's
really
important,
because
we
need
to
position
ourselves.
H
We
are
also
a
resource
producing
province
that
needs
that's
competing
on
a
global
market
and
needs
to
get
our
projects.
Products
to
Market,
so
in
doing
that,
we
need
to
show
that
we
have
Global
Leadership
not
only
in
energy
production
but
in
admissions
reduction
and
in
protecting
the
environment.
So
ESG
is
a
key
and
critical
link
to
that,
and
so
the
the
the
Secretariat
is
is
is
looking
and
doing
a
number
of
things.
H
Promoting
our
ESG
story,
they're
doing
great
work
in
there
and
promoting
it
and
working
on
a
jurisdictional,
ESG
framework
and
I
I
can
tell
you
that
we're
going
to
have
something
out
shortly,
something
shortly
on
our
ESG
report
and
some
tremendous
work
that
that
Deputy
Minister
has
been
working
on
and
the
admc
Bouchard
has
been
working
on
you're,
going
to
see
some
something
out
out
very
very
closely
on
our
ESG
report.
Again.
This
is
not.
This
is
close
to
First
of
a
Kind,
we're
the
only
sub-national
jurisdiction.
H
Doing
that,
and
so
we're
part
of
what's
happening
in
there
is
where
we
recognize
that
there's
no
there's
not
a
globally
accepted
jurisdictional,
ESG
framework
or
standard
that
that
exists.
So
our
government
has
developed
and
published
a
framework
in
2022.
It
uses
other
relevant
ESG
standards
as
a
basis
and
applies
a
jurisdictional
lens
to
create
a
framework
that
considers
particular
ESG
issues
that
are
most
important
within
our
jurisdiction.
H
B
B
Now,
move
on
to
a
10-minute
block
for
the
official
opposition
and
Mr
Schmidt
I
think
you
have
the
mic.
I
Thank
you
very
much,
I'm
hoping
we
can
share
this
block.
Thank
you
so
related
to
the
issue
of
sand
and
gravel
and
the
responsibilities
now
potentially
being
divided
up
between
two
Ministries
I.
Note
that
on
page.
I
84
of
environment
and
protected
areas
estimates
we
have
line
items
for
land
policy
and
public
Land
Management,
and
then
on
page
99
of
the
forestry
parks
and
tourism
budget.
We
have
items
4.1
and
4.2
for
public
land
operations
and
rangeland
operations.
J
H
Okay,
so
we've
got
within
within
our
department.
3.1
is
land
policy.
3.2
is
public,
Land
Management,
so
under
the
the
policy
and
nothing
has
changed,
we're
working
on
a
number
of
so
the
role
there
primarily
is
to
analyze
and
design
policies
to
achieve
the
environmental
outcomes.
This
involves
like
a
multiple
range
of
issues,
from
management
of
crown,
land
conservation
and
biodiversity,
Recreation
management,
land
conservation,
Reclamation
and
radiation.
Remediation,
Waste,
Management
pesticides.
H
So
approximately
and
you're,
probably
aware
of
these
statistics,
60
percent
of
Alberta's
land
bases
public
of
Crown
Land,
so
we
develop
and
maintain
a
regulatory
and
policy
framework
for
public
land
that
enables
the
effective
and
effective
management
for
whether
it's
agriculture,
commercial,
industrial
tourism
recreational
uses.
So
we
have
the
policy
framework
and
we
have
the
management
framework,
the
some
of
the
key
priorities
in
public
Land
Management,
that's
in
environment
protection
or
areas,
Alberta
Crown,
Land
Vision.
We
have
the
sustainable
funding
and
Partnerships
for
recreation.
H
I
On
that
note,
you
noted,
or
you
noted,
that
your
responsibility
for
the
trails
act
can
you
clearly
delineate
what
responsibilities
for
the
trail
act
fall
under
your
ministry
and
what
responsibilities
fall
under
the
ministry
of
parks,
because
the
minister
of
parks
has
given
out
millions
of
dollars
worth
of
Grants
under
the
trails
Act.
K
Yes,
good
good
morning,
Brian
machwiki
assistant,
Deputy,
minister
of
land
and
environment
and
protected
areas,
so
our
responsibilities
are
related
to
the
to
the
planning
pieces
so
trade-offs
on
on
the
landscape.
That
sort
of
like
where
Recreation
would
occur.
The
the
type
and
approach
to
that
Recreation
and
the
implementation
of
those
plans,
including
development
of
trails
working
with
Partners
to
to
maintain
those
Trails
Etc,
would
fall
to
fbt.
I
So
help
me
understand
the
process,
then,
because
there's
a
there's,
a
policy
and
planning
piece,
and
then
there
is
an
implementation
piece
and-
and
it
sounds
like
this
ministry-
does
the
policy
and
planning
with
respect
to
Trails
Act.
Now
what
policy
and
planning
pieces
were
completed
before
making
the
Snowmobile
Association
and
the
off
highway
vehicle
association?
The
trails
act,
managers
that
were
designated
recently
by
the
the
parks
minister.
What
what
plans
and
and
policy
Frameworks
were
put
in
place
to.
K
Yes,
so
the
establishment
of
trails
act
and
then
and
other
changes
associated
with
public
lands
act.
One
of
the
things
that
was
put
in
place.
An
approach
was
to
support
Partners
in
the
development
of
trails
and
and
partner
organizations,
and
so
that
was
the
establishment
of
of
that
approach
and
policy
is
in,
is
in
the
in
the
legislation
and
is
sort
of
enabled
in
that
to
reduce
red
tape
for
partners
and
enable
those
Partners
to
actively
participate
in
the
ongoing
maintenance
of
trails
and
Recreation
opportunities.
I
Because
my
rotation
of
the
trails
act,
which
may
not
have
been
completely
accurate,
contemplated
naming
Trails
managers
restricted
to
geographical
areas,
is
that
understanding,
correct
or
can?
Can
somebody
be
named
a
Trails
manager
for
the
entire
province.
K
K
Part
of
what
was
done
after
as
the
as
the
Act
was
put
in
place
was
to
assess
the
trails
that
are
currently
going
to
be
that
were
to
be
designated
under
that
as
a
provincial
Trail.
Under
the
legislation
there
will
be,
the
opportunity
is,
is
to
is
to
look
forward
to
grow
that
opportunity
as
well.
So
there
will
be
new
trails
planned
and
developed
over
time,
but
yes,
that
there
were
a
number
of
trails
that
were
put
in
place
as
that
those
regulations
were
established.
I
What
the
role
this
ministry
will
play
than
in
designating
future
Trails
as
off
highway
vehicle
trails
and
and
snowmobile
trails,
and
what
opportunities
people
who
may
have
proposed
other
uses
for
those
trails
that
don't
involve
motorized
vehicles
will
have
to
identify
Trails.
It
could
be
against
with
their
uses.
K
Yeah,
the
ACT
does
allow
for
the
type
of
activity
to
be
identified,
so
the
trails
act
will
support
all
Trail
users
and
that
could
include
you
know:
identification
of
historically
relevant
Trails
right
up
to
certainly
off
highway
vehicle
trails
and
also
walking
and
ski
trails.
We
know
that
there
is
potential
for
different
uses
at
different
times
of
year
to
be
in
conflict
with
each
other,
so
the
the
the
legislation
does
support
that
sort
of
identification
of
appropriate
use
and
through
the
planning
process.
It's
you
know.
K
The
intention
is
to
support
those
conversations
that
where
there
are
trade-offs,
it's
a
busy
busy
landscape
and
that
planning
process
will
support
indigenous
perspectives.
Other
land
users,
one
of
the
key
things
that
the
trails
act
and
in
combination
of
the
public
Cloud
events
act
does
is
by
establishing
a
trail
as
a
crown
resource.
It
also
protects
that
trail,
and
so
what
that
means.
My
protection
is
ensuring
that
industrial
users
also
recognize
that
trail
and
Landscape.
K
There's
an
obligation
to
to
put
that
trail
back
in
place
to
recover
its
intent
to
work
with
the
the
trail
users
to
make
sure
that
that
trail
is
maintained,
and
so,
of
course,
industry
would
be
involved
in
those
discussions
as
well.
I
So
under
Section
3.2,
then
how
much
money
is
set
aside
specifically
for
Trails
act,
management
planning
activities
this
year.
K
Yeah,
so
I
don't
have
the
number
right
in
front
of
me,
but
it's
it's
related
to
the
planning
components
that
the
department
does
so
there's
we,
you
know
in
the
department
of
environment
and
protected
areas,
we
are
doing
planning
for
the
recovery
of
caribou
sub-regional
planning,
Recreation
planning.
F
Floor.
Thank
you
appreciate
the
opportunity
minister
to
to
visit
with
you
I'd
like
to
begin
in
the
business
plan
with
outcome
number
two
sustainable
Economic
Development
achieved
within
environmental
capacity.
It
talks
about
sustainable
Economic
Development
offers
albertans
job
creation
as
well
as
quality
of
life.
F
What
I
need
to
what
I
need
to
unpack
here
is
that
both
job
creation,
quality
of
life
include
some
housing
developments
and
housing
and
2.3
in
the
business
plan,
speaks
of
enhancing
the
administrative
and
Regulatory
efficiency
of
all
of
that,
and
so
I
guess.
My
question
relates
to
a
local
constituency
issue
with
the
town
of
black
Falls
and
a
local
small
developer,
and
my
question
simply
would
be
how
long
of
a
process,
administrative
and
Regulatory
would
be
considered
appropriate
or
effective
and
I
reference.
F
If
we're
actually
doing
this
sustainably
for
economic
development
with
efficiency
and
Effectiveness.
Is
that
an
acceptable
timeline
for
the
regulatory
process
to
to
be
unwanted.
H
H
It's
perhaps
not
an
isolated
incident
you're
talking
about
with
a
specific
one.
We
probably
need
to
to
take
that
take
that
away,
and
we
can
probably
get
you
some
information
provide.
The
information
on
you
know
on
that.
That's
a
matter
with
the
the
environmental
appeals
board.
H
So
again,
you
know
to
sort
of
the
first
questions
that
we
dealt
with
where
we
started
with
on
Imperial
oil.
We
probably
need
to
take
that
away
and
get
some
information
from
the
the
regulator
for
the
appeals
board
for
you,
but
it
is
overall.
You
know
we
are.
We
know
that
we
need
to
fix
the
regulatory
system,
transform
it
and
one
of
the
things
we
are
doing
there
and
it
is
new
from
June
of
2021
is
we've.
H
We've
launched
What's
called
the
dbas
digital
regulatory
Assurance
system,
which
is
meant
to
address
those
problems.
Support
Economic
Development,
reduce
red
tape
and
it's
being
rolled
out
in
stages
until
2024
and
what
it
is
is
regulations.
Applications
are
being
moved
online.
It
won't
solve
all
the
problems
where
there's
more
complicated
issues
where
there's
statement
of
concerns,
and
perhaps
some
some
public
pushback.
H
It
won't
solve
all
of
those
problems,
but
I
can
give
you
some
some
good
updates
on
some
of
the
progress
we've
had
and
with
respect
to
Water
Act
applications
since
we've
launched
it-
and
that
was
one
of
the
first
steps
that
that
we
took
one
of
the
first
phases
on
it.
H
We've
managed
to
decrease
applications
by
51
of
from
an
average
of
189
days,
which
is
not
acceptable
down
to
92
days.
So
we've
reduced
those
application
Times
by
50
percent.
It's
saving.
We
also
understand
it's
creating
efficiencies.
It's
saving,
75
minutes
per
application
and
44
days
saved
throughout
the
application
process.
So
there's
there's
work
underway
to
address
this,
but
with
respect
to
that
situation,
I
think
we'll
have
to
file
some
information
suggest.
F
Minister
is
is
when
applications
are
sent
in
and
there's
no
response
for
8
9
10
11
12
months,
Time,
After,
Time,
After
Time,
it
turns
into
10
years.
Furthermore,
the
last
step
in
this
was
a
a
a
water
Outfield
outpawl
application
on
the
part
of
the
town,
which
was
appealed,
which
is
by
scopless
citizens,
which
is
a
legitimate
process.
The
hearing
was
held
well
over
a
year
and
a
half
ago,
and
there
has
been
absolutely
no
ruling
on
it
yet
after
a
year
and
a
half.
F
This
is
why
things
turn
into
10
years,
quite
frankly,
I'm
very
frustrated
with
this
department
and
and
the
way
it
handles
these
kinds
of
situations.
I
think
it
needs
to
be
dumped
out
turned
over
and
restructured
completely,
because
10
years
to
to
go
through
an
administrative
process
hinders
the
town.
The
town
literally
is
afraid
to
raise
the
issue
because
they're
afraid
they're
going
to
be
continually
punished
over
the
issue.
2
duels,
who
are
a
small
developer,
have
spent
10
years
of
their
life,
trying
to
resolve
a
regulatory
process
that
can't
be
resolved.
H
Sure
we're
like
I,
can't
tell
you
and
comment
on
what
might
have
happened
10
years
ago
in
the
department
when
the
application
was
first
required.
I
just
don't
have
that
information
on
on
what
processes
were
followed
and
what
delays
might
have
happened
10
years
ago.
What
I
can
tell
you
is
that
we're
taking
steps
to
address
it
with
starting
with
the
dras
d-ras
system,
which
would
move
some
of
those
applications
online,
there's
more
accountability,
more
requirements
to
respond
quickly,
so
at
that
first
intake
process
of
an
application,
we're
taking
steps
to
address
that
again.
H
H
Obviously,
there
was
significant
statements
of
concern
run
by
one
party
or
another,
so
it
falls
into
another
regulatory
process
and
an
appeal
again:
we've
we
funded
put
more
funding
into
the
the
EAB,
and
it
is
also
a
matter
that
it's
going
to
have
to
the
governance
of
that
organization
will
fall
within
the
it's.
It's
overdue.
H
These
organizations
and
Regulatory
processes,
regulators
and
and
administrative
bodies
have
are
subject
to
to
review
every
10
years,
I
think
or
every
and
it's
it's
overdue,
so
that
process
will
have
to
every
seven
years,
so
that
process
will
have
to
be
to
be
undertaken,
it's
overdue
for
that
review
and
that
can
look
at
finding
some
efficiencies
within
the
organization,
whether
it's
finding
ways
to
to
have
more
of
those
disputes.
Remember
this
is
a
dispute.
H
10
years
is
completely
unacceptable
for
any
application
of
of
that
sort.
That's
why
we're
taking
steps
to
try
to
rectify
that
in
the
future.
F
C
I'll,
take
it
back
for
30
seconds
well
24.,
so
we
kind
of
got
a
thing
going
between
Ron
and
I.
If
you
could
finish
off
on
the
ESG
secretary
administer
was
just
at
the
tail
end.
If
you
want
to
just
expand
on
that
for
20
seconds
sure.
H
Well,
it's
housed
now
in
the
department
of
environment,
it's
resourced!
It's
it's!
It's
funded
through
the
tier
program,
which
is
a
great
use
of
tier
program
to
you,
know,
ensure
environmental
outcomes
and
and
promote
our
all.
The
great
things
happening,
it's
being
utilized
across
multiple
departments
in
our
government
to
look
at.
I
Microphone,
thank
you
Minister.
Can
we
continue
sharing
time?
Thank
you.
Thank
you
very
much.
I
mean
I,
have
some
criticisms,
but
I
certainly
wouldn't
be
me
to
say
that
this
is
the
worst
Department
in
government.
I'm
surprised
to
hear
that
comment
coming
from
the
government
side
of
the
table
today,
but
I
would
like
to
continue
on
with
the
questions
that
I
was
asking
before
the
time
ran
out
simply
with
respect
to
public
land
management.
Section
3.2
were
you
able
to
it?
H
So
I
don't
think
there
is.
There
is
a
specific
amount
set
aside
for
the
trails
act
that
public
Land
Management
component
of
the
of
the
budget.
Significantly
a
lot
is
used
for
salaries
and
wages.
So
it's
internal
in
the
government
and
probably
day-to-day
month-to-month
year
to
year,
there's
more
focus
in
one
area
than
the
the
other.
So
it's
I
don't
think
we
can
pull
aside
and
tell
you
a
number:
that's
that's
or
a
number
of
people
or
a
number
in
the
budget.
That's
related
to
the
trails
act.
I
No,
that
understandable,
now
back
to
the
original
or
one
of
the
questions
that
that
drove
this
question,
then,
because,
on
the
issue
of
gravel
pit
Reclamation
securities,
how
is
the
responsibility
for
management
of
gravel
pits
split
now
between
environment
and
protected
areas
and
Forestry
parks
and
tourism?
Helped
me
understand
that.
H
We
we
can
take
that
away
and
provide
you
something
specific
there,
but
again
the
policy
and
the
management
remains
with
environment
and
protected
areas.
Some
operational
elements
have
transferred
over
to
forestry
parks
and
tourism,
but
we
can
get
that
information
for
you
with
respect
if
we
could
repeat
it
into
the
record
so
that
we.
I
I
Now
there
has
been
no
evidence
to
prove
that
this
is
the
case
one
way
or
the
other,
but
the
water
well
does
sit
in
close
proximity
to
an
active,
Gravel,
Pit
I
I.
Try
to
ask
the
minister
questions
back
in
December.
She
wasn't
able
to
answer
at
the
time,
and
but
the
minister
who
answered
in
her
place
said
that
the
system
was
working
just
fine
and
that
no
change
is
needed
to
be
made.
I
H
So
again,
I
think
we're
we're
referring
to
a
specific,
a
specific
item
and
I
think
we
have
a
department.
Official,
that's
been
been
handling
that
I'm,
aware
of
the
issue
and
you've
raised
awareness
of
this
I
believe
you've,
you
had
the
constituent
or
the
the
person
in
question
period
and
introduce
so
I
am
aware
of
the
issue,
how
it's
being
managed
and
the
particulars
of
it.
D
So
thank
you
for
the
question
my
we
are
working
at
this
point
with
Ms
young
to
understand
what
the
causes
are
of
the
increased
levels
of
metals
in
her
groundwater.
Well,
as
you
have
already
reflected,
she
has
a
groundwater.
Well
that
serves
her
home
in
Red
Deer
County.
Her
property
is
in
an
area
where
there's
been
significant
amount
of
sand
and
gravel
operations,
so
we
are
working
with
her
on
an
investigation
to
try
to
figure
out
try
to
determine
where
those
contaminants
are
coming
from.
D
We
met
with
her
about
a
month
ago
and
walked
her
through
our
investigation
plan,
how
we
plan
to
move
through
moving
from
kind
of
the
space
close
to
her
well
out
further
and
further
until
we
can
delineate
what
the
causes
are
of
the
increased
Metals
concentrations
in
her
drinking
water.
So
that's
going
to
take
us
a
bit
of
time
to
work
through
the
ground
in
the
area
is
quite
Disturbed.
I
And
and
I
appreciate
the
update
on
that
particular
issue.
However,
my
sense
is
that
this
is
a
this
particular
incident
happened,
because
the
broader
system
of
inspecting
and
regulating
gravel
pits
is
broken
in
this
province.
Has
this
particular
incident
prompted
any
broader
review
of
how
our
environment
protected
areas
man
regulates
and
protects
people
from
potential
impacts
of
sand
and
gravel
pits.
D
I,
don't
think
we
have
evidence
yet
to
say
that
this
is
more
than
an
isolated
situation.
I
know
we
have.
We
are
seeing
more
citizens
raise
concerns
about
sand
and
gravel
operations,
we'll
need
to
take
a
look
to
determine
if
that
is
actually
because
the
increase
or
increase
in
Risk
from
the
operations
or
increase
in
proximity
to
to
land
owners,
properties
and
and
just
a
higher
level
of
concern.
I
And
if
the
public
had
trust
in
the
system
to
manage
it,
I
would
try.
I
would
be
grateful
that
you
would
say
that
there's
no
evidence.
However,
the
auditor
general
has
been
quite
clear
that
the
level
of
monitoring
going
on
in
gravel
pits
is
nowhere
near
enough
to
for
the
Department
to
make
statements
like
that
that
there
is
no
evidence
that
there
is
ongoing
risk
here.
So
I
certainly
hope
that
the
department
increases
the
level
of
monitoring
of
sand
and
gravel
pits
to
provide
the
public
Assurance.
I
When
you
say
that
there
is
no
risk
that
we
actually
have
the
data
to
back
that
up
now
with
respect
to
gravel
pits,
there's
one
particular
gravel
pit
that
is
has
been
proposed
on
the
border
of
big
hill
Springs
Provincial
Park
near
Cochrane.
Your
own
Department
agreed
with
an
independent
assessment
of
the
project,
which
said
that
it
would
Gravely
damage
the
park
and
it
recommended
that
protections
for
the
park
be
enhanced
and
that
the
gravel
pitch
should
not
be
allowed
to
proceed.
People
have
been
waiting
for
months
for
a
decision
on
this
park.
H
Think
this
is
probably
before
the
nrcb
hearing,
but
I'll
give
it
over
to
Stacy
to
give
you
an
update
of
where
that,
where
that
particular
application
as
I
say
we're
getting
into
Mr
chair
we're
getting
into
a
lot
of
issues
that
seem
to
be
a
theme
here
about
issues
that
are
regulated
matters
that
aren't
about
the
budget.
We've
been
pretty
pretty
open
and
we've
been
allowing
those
types
of
questions,
but
it's
getting
to
a
point
that
it's
you
know
every
regulated
project
across
the
province
is.
H
D
Adm
Stacy
Smith
again
so,
yes,
this
is
n't
currently
in
front
of
the
regulator.
It
is
sitting
with
statutory
decision
maker.
I
know
there
have
been
supplemental
information
requests
given
that
the
proponent,
particularly
around
groundwater
management-
and
we
are
waiting
to
to
see
where
that
information
Falls
what
it
provides
us
and
to
support
the
decision
made
by
the
statutory
decision
maker.
So
it
is
currently
still
with
the
regulatory
system,
and
we
can't
really
say
much
more
than
that.
A
I
B
F
Okay,
we'll
stick
with
Section
Five
of
the
budget
Fisheries
primarily
so
it's
extremely
important
piece
for
Alberta
I,
think
of
the
Cold
Lake
Fish
Hatchery,
The,
Raven,
Creek,
brewed
trout
station,
so
I'm
just
wondering
if
you
can
tell
us
how
much
in
the
budget
is
actually
allocated
to
to
the
hatcheries
and
and
the
repropagation
of
of
fish
across
the
province.
F
H
A
H
Yeah
so
there's
a
number:
it's
it's
in
a
number
of
areas,
so
there's
28
million
for
the
Raven
Creek
brewed
trout
station.
That's
a
6.2
million
dollar
increase
over
previous
budgets.
We
have
2.65
million
for
fish,
Capital
maintenance
and
renewable.
That's
a
set,
1.7
million
dollar
increase.
We
have
1.18
million
towards
whirling
disease
and
we
have
6.6
million
for
the
Cold
Lake
Fish
Hatchery.
H
So
there's
a
number
of
programs
there
and
the
a
lot
of
those,
and
then
we
also
I
can
I
can
point
that
we're
focused
on
expanding
stalking
programs,
fish
stocking
programs,
and
that
would
be
to
increase
the
experience
of
fishing
experiences
and
help,
to
importantly,
help
to
restore
the
at-risk
risk
native
trout.
That's
the
west
west
slope
Cutthroat
with
population
increasing,
but
that
first
number
I
think
we'd
have
to
add
up
a
number
of
those
things
on
the
various
grants,
and
it
looks
like
it's
about
a
little
over
about
35
36
million
dollars.
F
That's
good,
thank
you
and
I'm
glad
to
hear
there's
continued
investment.
There
I
was
going
to
ask
you
about
two
sub
pieces
of
that
you
mentioned
the
fish
Capital
two
point,
something:
where
is
that
fish
Capital
maintenance
and
renewal
funding
actually
going
to
be
directed
to.
F
Okay,
good
good-
and
you
did
also
State
the
number
with
regards
to
whirling
disease,
a
huge
issue
I'm
just
wondering
how
that
money
is
actually
going
to
be
allocated
and
and
how
like?
How
is
it
going
to
help.
H
Okay,
so
have.
H
We
have
a,
we
actually
have
a
whirling
disease
action
plan
and
it's
based
on
monitoring
education
and
mitigation.
So
first
of
all,
it
will
focus
on
determining
where
the
whirling
disease
outbreak
is
is
most
likely
monitor.
The
impacts
of
the
disease,
especially
on
vulnerable
fish
populations
and
there'll,
be
an
education
component
of
it.
We
have
a
lab
facility
in
Vegreville
Alberta,
which
prepares
and
looks
at
fish
samples
to
expedite
testing,
to
learn
more
about
the
disease.
H
There's
a
molecular
testing
room
and
there's
two
contained
decontamination
sites
stations
in
Edmonton
and
Lethbridge,
there's
five
mobile
decontamination
units
to
support
Regional
operation
and
there's
molecular
upgrades.
So
there's
a
number
of
things
ongoing
to
to
to
help
with
that.
We
consider
it's
a
serious,
not
only
a
serious
fish
health
issue,
but
it's
has
negative
economic
and
ecological
impact.
So
that's
why
there's
a
there's
a
there's,
a
program,
an
action
plan
together
with
funding,
and
we
have
estimated
funding
to
deal
with
that
of
1.182
million
dollars
for
23.24.
I.
G
G
Section
four,
of
course
deals
with
of
on
topic
of
water
and
flood
mitigation
and
Water
Management
Capital
grants
Minister,
especially
of
course
considering
what
happened
in
our
area
down
in
2013
and
the
impacts
of
that
just
wondering
if
you
can
expand
on
how
this
money
is
being
distributed,
and
maybe
even
more
specifically
how
it
relates
to
the
Foothills
County
lower
Highwood,
and
if
there's
additional
support
for
communities
like
that.
H
There
there
is,
and
thank
you
for
the
question
and
thank
you
for
your
advocacy
on
behalf
of
your
constituents
for
that
there's:
9.6
million
dollars
allocated
to
the
lower
Highwood
River
mitigation
that
supports
the
surrounding
area
high
river
and
surrounding
areas,
and
that
relates
back
to
some
of
the
some
of
the
issues
around
the
Alberta
floods
in
2013..
H
So
there
is
9.6
million
dollars
allocated
in
the
capital
capital
program
for
for
that
project.
We
that
that
I
think
will
support
a
number
of
initiatives,
including
some
property
buyouts.
We've
heard
really
clearly
from
the
residents
the
the
county
concerns
in
that
and
how
to
address
it,
and
so
it
was
prioritized
and
there's
9.6
million
dollars
available
in
this
budget.
For
that,
so
that's
a
good
news,
good
news
story
and
thank
you
for
your
advocacy
on
behalf
of
your
constituents.
B
There
you
go
I
apologize
for
the
interruption,
but
I
must
advise
the
committee
that
the
time
allotted
for
consideration
of
the
ministry's
estimates
has
concluded
I'd
like
to
remind
committee
members
that
we
are
scheduled
to
meet
on
Tuesday
March
14
2023
at
3
30
pm
to
consider
the
estimates
of
the
ministry
of
affordability
and
utilities.
Thank
you.
Everyone.
This
meeting
is
adjourned.