►
From YouTube: Main Estimates - Ministry of Health Pt. 2
Description
Legislative Assembly of Alberta
A
A
A
B
She
turns
off
the
light
I'm
good
to
go
really
hard.
I
would
like
to
call
the
meeting
to
order
and
welcome
everyone
in
attendance.
The
committee
has
under
consideration
estimates
of
the
Ministry
of
Health
for
the
fiscal
year
ending
March
31st
2024.
I'd.
Ask
that
we
go
around
the
table
and
have
members
introduce
themselves
for
the
record
Minister.
Please
introduce
the
officials
who
are
joining
you
at
the
table.
My
name
is
Jackie
lovely
I'm,
the
MLA
for
the
Camrose
constituency
and
the
chair
of
this
committee,
we'll
begin
to
my
right.
J
Jason
copping
MLA
for
Calgary
varsity
and
minister
of
Health
with
me
at
the
table.
I
have
Paul
winick,
Deputy,
Minister,
Aaron,
neumeyer
ADM
for
financial
and
Corporate
Services,
Corinne
sham
ADM
for
continuing
care
and
Paul
Smith
ADM
for
health,
workforce
planning
and
accountability
and
in
the
gallery
who
may
come
to
the
microphone.
K
B
I'd
like
to
note
the
following
substitutions
for
the
record,
The
Honorable
Mr
fan
is
substituting
his
Deputy
chair
for
the
honorable
Ms
segerton
The
Honorable
Mrs
Ellard
is
substituting
for
Mr
Godfrey
and
later
this
afternoon,
Mr
Smith
will
be
stepping
in
and
substituting
for
me
as
chair.
Thank
you.
A
few
housekeeping
items
to
address
before
we
turn
to
the
distance
at
hand.
Please
note
that
the
microphones
are
operated
by
Hanser's
staff
committee.
Proceedings
are
live
streamed
on
the
internet
and
broadcast
on
Alberta
assembly
TV.
B
The
audio
and
visual
stream
and
transcripts
of
meetings
can
be
accessed
via
the
Legislative
Assembly
website.
Members
participating
remotely
are
encouraged
to
turn
your
camera
on.
While
speaking
and
mute
your
microphone
when
not
speaking,
remote
participants
who
wish
to
be
placed
on
the
speakers
list
are
asked
to
email
or
message
to
the
committee
Clerk
and
members
in
the
room
should
signal
to
the
chair.
Please
set
your
cell
phones
and
other
devices
to
silent
for
the
duration
of
the
meeting
with
regard
to
speaking
rotation
and
time
limits.
B
Honorable
members,
the
standing
order
set
out
the
process
for
consideration
of
the
main
estimates.
A
total
of
six
hours
has
been
scheduled
for
consideration
of
the
estimates
for
the
Ministry
of
Health.
For
the
record,
I
would
like
to
note
that
the
standing
committee
on
families
and
communities
has
already
completed
three
hours
of
debate
in
this
respect.
B
As
we
enter
our
fourth
hour
of
debate,
I
will
remind
everyone
that
the
speaking
rotation
for
these
meetings
is
provided
understanding
order,
59.016,
and
we
are
now
at
the
point
in
the
rotation
where
speaking
times
are
limited
to
a
maximum
of
five
minutes
for
both
the
member
and
the
minister.
These
speaking
times
may
be
confined
for
a
maximum
of
10
minutes.
Please
remember
to
advise
the
chair
at
the
beginning
of
your
rotation
if
you
wish
to
combine
your
time
with
the
ministers.
B
One
final
note:
please
remember
that
discussion
should
flow
through
the
chair
at
all
times,
regardless
of
whether
or
not
your
speaking
times
are
combined.
If
members
have
any
questions
regarding
speaking
times
or
the
rotation,
please
feel
free
to
send
an
email
or
message
to
the
committee
clerk
about
the
process
with
the
concurrence
of
the
committee,
I
will
call
a
five-minute
break
near
the
midpoint
for
the
meeting.
However,
the
three-hour
clock
will
continue
to
run.
B
Does
anyone
oppose
having
a
break
today
all
right,
we'll
proceed
with
the
break
when
we
joined
this
morning,
we
were
five
minutes
into
the
exchange
between
Mr
long
and
the
minister
I'll
now
invite
Mr
long
or
another
member
from
the
government
caucus.
If
you
choose
to
complete
the
remaining
time
in
this
rotation,
remember
you
have
five
minutes.
F
F
F
F
Northern
part
of
Calgary
North
that
this
facility
is
contemplated
all
right.
I
just
would
like
to
clarify
a
couple
of
things
on
that
and
I
know
that
we
have
three
million
dollars
set
aside
for
this
one
billion
for
this
year,
one
billion
for
next
and
one
year
after
in
for
the
planning
phase
of
it.
Could
you
please
elaborate
a
little
bit
on
that
again
as
to
what
are
you
contemplating
to
do
in
this
first
million
dollar
in
this
year?
For
that
facility?
Well.
J
So,
thank
you
so
much
for
the
question
and
and
again
I
reiterate
your
thanks
to
the
people
beside
me
behind
me
and
all
Healthcare
Professionals
for
the
tremendous
work
that
they're
doing
in
supporting
albertans
and
their
health
care
needs.
You
know
very
pleased
as
part
of
budget
2023.
The
capital
plan
is
planning
dollars
for
both.
You
know,
Airdrie
and
North
Calgary
and
I
I,
fully
appreciate
how
near
and
dear
that
is
to
your
into
your
heart.
J
You
know,
as
indicated
this
morning,
we
we
need
to
do
a
an
updated
assessment
of
the
needs,
for
you
know,
North
Calgary
and
in
in
Airdrie
that
you
know
like
look
at
the
look
of
the
area.
That's
the
first
step
in
any
Capital
planning.
You
know
they
do
A
needs
assessment,
then
a
budget,
then
a
functional
plan,
and
then
we
actually
get
to
building.
So
the
the
three
million
dollars
is
actually
to
be
able
to
take
us
through
that
process.
J
This
sort
of
initial
funding,
for
that
you
know,
as
as
indicated
to
our
colleague
earlier
MLA
Pitt,
the
you
know
it.
The
the
assessment
for
the
Calgary
Zone,
particularly
the
north
area
of
the
Calgary
zone,
is
is
dated.
So
we
need
to
update
that.
Take
a
look
at
the
the
growth
that's
happening
in
the
in
the
in
the
area.
So
and-
and
you
know
that
assessment
includes
looking
at-
you-
know
the
the
amount
of
pressures
that
are
already
on
the
system
right
now.
J
The
population
growth
demographics
because
you
know,
as
as
a
population
ages,
increase
in
complexity
and
increase
on
needs
of
of
of
Health
Care
needs,
so
we'll
be
taking
a
look
at
all
of
that
again.
You
know
this:
will
this
project
will
be
led
by
by
AHS?
We
did
have
conversation
as
well
this
morning
on
the
importance
of
of
including
local
community
sort
of
you
know
in.
J
So
a
first
step
in
all
of
this,
however,
is
to
determine
you
know
what
are
the
broad
needs
of
the
community
for
the
the
north
Zone?
And
what
do
we
see
the
increase
being
over?
You
know
in
the
years
to
come
and
then
we
actually
start
you
know
doing
the
planning
okay.
What
does
that
look
like
from
an
infrastructure
and
then,
where
does
that
infrastructure
go
and
are
we
looking
at
two
pieces?
F
Thank
you
very
much
so
determine
the
need
and
in
determining
that
need
consultation.
If
you
talk
about
public
consultation,
that's
really
good
and
I.
Thank
you
very
much
for
putting
that
in
the
budget
and
I
look
forward
to
that
particular
project.
We'll
be
stacking
again
on
that.
I
will
move
on
to
my
next
question.
It's
about.
K
Thank
you,
madam
chair,
and
now
that
it
is
actually
my
turn
allowing
me
to
follow
the
lead
of
Mr
yucini
and
wishing
my
sincere
thanks
to
all
of
the
staff
and
support
that
are
here
with
the
ministry
today.
I
appreciate
all
of
the
work
that
you
do
on
behalf
of
albertans
and
that
you
are
here
today
to
provide
the
support
for
our
questions
and
in
our
comments.
So
Minister
I
wanted
to
shift
if
we
could
to
talk
about
primary
care
so,
of
course
under
outcome.
K
One
and
objective
1.3,
strengthening
modernizing
Alberta's
Primary,
Health
Care
system
and
your
commitment
to
funding
I
believe
about
243
billion
over
three
years
for
recommendations
from
the
maps
for
the
work
being
done
through
Maps.
So
there's
a
number
of
recommendations
that
were
put
forward
in
a
preliminary
report
for
maps
now
am
I
correcting
Minister.
My
understanding
is
that
you
have
accepted
all
of
those
recommendations.
Yeah.
J
So
we've
accepted
all
of
them
in
principle.
At
this
point
in
time
you
know
some
of
those
recommendations
were
still
high
level,
so
we're
actually
working
through
the
implementation
plan
on
that.
But
you
know
the
the
general
thrust
of
those
recommendations
is
supporting.
You
know
more
expanding
team-based
approach
to
to
to
healthcare
and-
and
we
actually
already
have
that
as
part
of
the
AMA
deal
in
terms
of
so
so
you
know
we're
actually
working
on
working
on
that
part
of
it
was.
J
K
Well,
if
we
could,
why
don't
we
start
there?
Minister
I
should
want
to
dig
into
some
of
these
individually.
So
we'll
start
there
with
the
restoring
the
operational
stability
fund.
Now,
my
understanding
is
that
the
OSF
was
established
through
a
policy
implemented
in
April
2018.,
as
you
say,
allowing
pcns
to
roll
over
dollars
to
the
next
year.
It
was
eliminated
by
your
government
in
the
20
2023
Grant
cycle,
as
a
cost
cost
cutting
measure.
So
is
this
an
acknowledgment
then
that
that
was
an
error
to
have
made
that
cut.
J
You're,
restoring
it
here
yeah,
so
that
was
made
in
then
at
a
particular
point
in
time.
You
know
where
we
had
a
different
physical
reality.
We
actually
heard
feedback
from
as
part
of
the
maps
process
that
that
actually
constrained
the
ability
of
of
pcns
for
ongoing
planning.
So
you
know
when
they
come
forward
when
they
came
forward
with
that
recommendation
to
say
that
we
need
to
maintain
the
finding
or
have
more
flexibility.
J
We
we
accepted
it,
and
we
also
recognize
that
we
have
both
the
the
funding
formula
and
the
governance
mechanism
for
pcns
needs
to
change.
You
know
that's
one
of
the
issues
that
we've
highlighted
and
I've
asked
for
the
committee
to
give
recommendations
back
to
our
government
in
terms
of
how
do
we
change
the
structure?
J
You
know
it's
been,
that's
been
in
place
for
years
and
I
just
want
to
take
a
step
back.
You
know
we
as
a
province
led
the
country
with
the
establishment
of
primary
care
networks
and
supporting
primary
care,
and
this
is
you
know
over
20
years
ago,
but
we
need
to
evolve
it
to
actually
improve
its
Effectiveness,
and
so
you
know
that's
what
I've
asked
the
maps
panel
to
do.
J
They
made
some
preliminary
like
quick
hit,
which
we
asked
for
say:
okay,
what
can
we
do
right
now
to
actually
improve
the
system,
and
so
we
can
act
on
more
immediately,
but
we're
also
asking
for
a
long-term
plan
right.
How
do
we
evolve
this
over
time,
including
different
governance
structures
and
different
funding
mechanisms
to
be
able
to
do
it
and
we're
reflecting
this
notes?
J
K
So
basically
because
those
amounts
are
allowed
to
roll
over
right
if
they,
if
they
here's
what
they
said,
PC
ads
will
under
budget
two
to
two
and
a
half
to
five
percent
a
year,
just
to
make
sure
that
they're
not
going
over.
So
then
you
allow
them
to
roll
that
over
now
with
the
OSF,
with
the
40
million
dollars,
they're
asking
you
know,
if
they're
not
able
to
make
full
use
of
that
doll
of
those
dollars.
K
Each
year
are
those
also
going
to
be
allowed
under
the
OSF,
because
the
OSF
has
a
cap
on
it
right.
It
can
only
be
used
on
five
percent
of
the
funding
from
the
budget
year,
so
their
concern
is
that
they
will
get
the
additional
40
million
if
they're
not
able
to
make
full
use
of
it.
For
example,
if
they're
looking
to
hire
team-based
staff
or
other
things,
and
it
takes
some
time
to
achieve
that-
that
this
money
would
be
clawed
back.
So
can
you
be
clear?
K
J
So
the
Nintendo
to
them
they,
the
additional
40
40
million-
that's
20
million
lump
sum
this
year,
20
million
lump
sum
next
year
right
so
just
so
we're
sort
of
clear
is
to
be
able
to
enable
the
pcns
to
expand
the
resources
that
that
they're
they're
providing
right
now
today,
right,
while
we're
doing
we're
we're
getting
the
report
from
the
maps
panel
to
say
how
do
we?
Actually?
How
do
we
actually
reform
our
funding
structure
and
our
governance
structure,
for
that?
J
M
That
yeah,
thanks
Minister
I,
mean
you
always
have,
is
really
leveraging
the
existing
funding.
That's
already
appropriated
each
year
for
pcns.
Like
you
mentioned
it,
it
simply
allows
them
to
maintain
anything
that
other
was
would
have
dropped
off
the
table
in
that
fiscal
year,
for
40
million
is
for
a
different
purpose,
and
we've
actually
stood
up
a
working
group
that
involves
Primary
Care
leaders,
dma
et
cetera,
provincial
PCN
committee,
as
well
to
inform
how
we're
actually
going
to
spend
that
money
over
the
two
years.
So
they
are
two
separate
pieces,
one
augments,
the
other
one.
K
Excellent,
thank
you.
I
appreciate
that
clarification.
As
a
will,
the
Physicians
that
I
was
speaking
with
so
they'll,
be
able
to
hang
on
to
those
dogs
so
and
to
I
appreciate
the
clarification
Mr
that
40
million
is
over
two
years
to
20
million
per
year.
We
also
have
the
another
27
million
to
provide
for
the
expected
increase
of
patients
attached
to
your
primary
care
provider.
K
J
Correct,
that's
two
two
augment
this:
the
services
and
we're
we're
working
with,
as
as
indicated
by
ADM
Smith
we're
working
with
the
the
AMA
and
the
PCN
networks.
In
terms
of
you
know
what
that
what
that
looks
like
exactly,
but
it's
basically
to
expand
the
services
so,
and
we
do
know
that
you
know
we'll
want
to
have
more
albertans
attached
to
primary
care
clinics
so
and
as
more
albertans
get
attached.
Then
the
funding
and
the
formula
which
is
on
a
per
you
know
per
person
on
the
panel
base.
K
Had
someone
reach
out
to
me
recently,
who
reported
that
service
is
currently
being
run
and
maintained
by
two
mpcn
employees,
one
in
Edmonton,
one
in
Calgary,
on
top
of
other
duties
as
there's
no
specific
dedicated
funding
for
that
service.
That
seems
to
be
a
bit
counterproductive.
This
seems
to
be
pretty
essential
part.
So
I
just
want
to
clarify
minister.
Is
that
correct,
and
is
there
no
dedicated
funding
within
I?
Guess
this
budget
either
for
pcns
or
another
part
of
this
budget,
specifically
for
the
find
a
doctor
service.
M
F
J
M
K
We've
got
about
a
minute
and
a
bit
we'll
make
I'll
make
the
question
quick,
we'll
see
if
we
can
make
the
answer.
Quick,
Ministry,
you've
spoken
several
times.
In
fact,
this
this
last
fall
about
17
doctors
needed
to
be
recruited
in
the
Lethbridge
area,
stated
that
17
of
commence
the
first
part
of
their
assessment
and
that
the
first
few
were
going
to
start
practicing
in
the
fall.
Can
you
give
us
an
update
how
many
of
those
17
doctors
have
begun
to
operate
in
the
Lethbridge
area?.
J
K
K
F
F
J
Yeah
no
happy
to
explain,
because,
even
though
it
looks
like
a
reduction,
it
isn't.
This
is
the
because
of
the
joys
of
and
the
requirements
for,
a
representing
a
fully
Consolidated
budget.
In
fact,
funding
for
cancer
research
is
actually
increasing.
If
we,
you
know,
go
to
the
ministry
estimates
on
page
111
program
14.,
so
this
would
actually
be
going
into
the
estimate
binder.
J
You
can
actually
see
the
the
increase.
You
know
moving
from
25
million
to
25
million
850
000,
so
page
111
of
the
of
the
of
the
estimates.
Okay.
So
the
reason
why
the
statement
of
operations,
which
is
what
you
referred
to
earlier
in
the
business
plan
on
page
26,
is
is
shows.
The
decrease
is
due
to
a
a
year-over-year
increase
in
cancer
research
funded
provided
by
the
department
to
AHS,
so
it's
flowing
through
a
different.
The
different
entity
through
EHS
funding,
provides
AHS
from
Alberta
Health
are
eliminated
as
part
of
the
ministry's
consolidation.
J
The
the
department
is
providing
a
1.77
million
increase
in
cancer
research
funding
to
AHS
bring
the
total
funding
for
you
know
when
we
combine
everything
for
this
work
to
15.47
million
in
2324
and
because
AHS
reports,
cancer,
research
and
funding
from
the
Department
in
other
programs
on
their
line
items.
Then
it's
difficult
to
see
the
see
the
flow
through
on
this.
So
you
know
we
are
committed
to
continuing
to
fund
cancer
research.
J
This
is
a
important
aspect
of
the
of
healthcare
that
that
we
provide,
as
as
I
know,
the
honorable
member
is
aware
one
in
two
albertans
we'll
get
cancer
at
some
point
in
time
and
all
of
us
will
be
affected
by
it
or
because
either
us
or
a
family
members.
So
it's
important
that
we
continue
the
research
we,
you
know
continue
to
fund
that
and
quite
frankly,
you
know
some
of
this.
J
Some
of
the
research
like
and
some
of
the
the
treatments
like
the
car
T
cell
therapy
treatments
that
that
we're
doing
in
in
Edmonton
are
groundbreaking
and
resulting
in
in
significant
benefits.
Without
you
know
the
these
the
negative
side
effects
that
we
have
with
chemotherapy.
So
so
again
we
continue
to
fund
this
and
and
we're
actually
not
dropping
funding,
we're
increasing
it.
It's
just
it
just
doesn't
show
up
there.
Yeah.
J
You
know
the
facility
pays
Continuing.
Care
review
was
completed
a
number
of
years
ago
as
part
of
budget
2022.
We
started
on
our
journey
of
transforming
our
system
and
moving
people
more
from
a
current
case:
congregate
care
system
to
home
care
and
improving
the
incentive.
So
you
know
part
of
budget
2022
was
you
know,
increasing
a
million
hours
in
in
in
home
care
and
and
as
well.
J
We
we
knew
that
you
know
given
the
sheer
the
demographics
and
the
sheer
numbers
that
were
coming
at
us,
like,
even
as
we
move
people
more
to
home
care,
we're
still
going
to
need
more
Continuing,
Care
spaces,
so
part
of
budget
2022
also
committed.
You
know
an
additional
200
million
dollars
to
Capital
to
build
more
Continuing
Care
spaces
in
a
number
of
environments.
So
it's
not
only
you
know
small
small
Care
Homes,
you
know
Continuing
Care
spaces
for
indigenous.
J
You
know
on
and
off
reserves
for
indigenous
people
and
then
also
Continuing
Care
spaces
and
replacing
Continuous
Care
spaces
that
we
we
have
today
very
pleased
that
as
part
of
budget
2023,
we
are
investing
a
billion
dollars
over
three
years
to
continue
our
journey
on
on
transformation.
Now
and
part
of
that,
you
know,
is
Shifting
care
to
the
community,
so
that
includes
expanding
Home
and
Community
Care.
J
So
part
of
our
shift
to
the
community
and
part
of
budget
2023
is
not
only
funding
more
hours
at
home,
but
also
funding
Navigators
to
be
able
to
assist
people
at
home
and
then
and
then
also
providing
supports
for
for
not-for
profits
to
provide
services
like
shoveling,
like
meals
like
you
know,
so
that
people
can
stay
at
home
longer
and
don't
have
to
enter
into
a
a
congregular
care
setting.
So
you
know
we're
continuing
that
shift
to
the
community.
That's
part
of
it.
J
Another
big
part
of
it
we
spoke
this
morning
with
members
of
the
opposition
is
a
a
enhancing
Workforce
capacity
because
we
know-
and
we
heard
loud
and
clear
in
the
facility-based
Continuing
Care
review
report
that
there's
High
turnover
and
it's
difficult
to
attract
and
retain
individuals,
particularly
in
in
the
Home
Care
setting,
but
also
in
the
Continuing
Care
setting
and
it's
quite
Frank.
The
current
environment
is
even
even
more
challenging
where
we
have
a
shortage
of
healthcare
workers.
So
part
of
our
are
this
billion
dollar
investment
is
offering
work.
J
But
you
know
looking
at
the
the
the
employment
you
know:
the
employee,
the
employment
contract
so
that
they
we
can
continue
to
attract
and
retain
and
then
also
we're
looking
at
Innovation.
So
everybody
talked
earlier
this
morning
on
the
the
on
the
employment
side.
Is
the
you
know?
How
can
we
enable
service
provide
writers
to
be
able
to
be
more
nibble?
J
So
it's
not
necessarily
an
input
based
system,
but
an
output
based
system
so
that
you
know
we
can
you
know
they
can
create
more
full-time
jobs,
more
flexibility
to
provide
the
care
to
albertans
when
they
need
it.
So
because,
if
you
have
a
bunch
of
casual
employees,
working
split
shifts
it's
harder
to
attract
and
retain,
but
if
we
have
more
people
working,
full-time
jobs
and
not
split
shifts,
but
you
can
have
flexibility
to
overlap
them
while
you're
providing
the
services,
then
we
can
hold
on
to
them,
which
actually
results
in
in
better
care.
J
J
You
know
for
20,
you
know
20
23
24,
for
example.
You
know
an
additional
100
million
dollars
to
increase
the
hours
of
care
for
people
in
congregate
care
in
the
Home
Care
settings.
So
that
means
it's
not
just
doing
the
basics
but
doing
more
than
the
basics.
So
it's
it's
improving
the
quality
of
of
life
and
giving
more
time
to
staff
to
be
able
to
work
with
individuals
who
are
receiving
the
care.
J
J
This
is
not
only
improving
in
terms
of
health
care
outcomes
like
improve,
because
we
know
that,
generally
speaking,
if
you
look
after
people
in
their
homes
longer
that
they're
happier
and
they
have
better
Healthcare
outcomes
than
necessarily
being
institutionalized
now
at
a
certain
point
in
time,
they
will
need
to
be
so
we're
also,
as
part
of
this
plan,
continuing
to
increase
our
capacity
in
the
Continuing
Care
space
in
the
congregate
care
space.
You
know
small
homes
and
again
very
pleased,
and
you
know
for
us
in
Calgary.
J
You
know
we
are
going
to
be
investing
in
and
replacing
Bethany,
but
we're
also
doing
it
here
in
the
Good
Samaritan
in
in
Hamilton.
By
replacing
those
with
facilities,
which
you
know
quite
frankly
were
far
too
are
far
too
old.
But
the
reality
is.
They
also
had
a
lot
of
rooms,
shared
rooms
with
shared
bathrooms,
which
we
learned
through
covid
that
put
residents
at
higher
risk,
so
we're
replacing
this
moving
forward.
K
You,
madam
chair,
so
Minister
continuing
the
conversation,
then
on
the
map's
recommendations.
So
one
of
the
recommendations
is
to
enhance
access
to
a
virtual
CARE
program.
So
I
look
back
to
a
letter
from
the
Alberta
College
of
family
physicians
from
March
25th
of
2020,
where
they
indeed
stated.
We
need
to
bolster
capability
to
provide
virtual
care,
including
telephone
and
Telehealth
visits
programs
provided
by
physician
offices
and
pcns
in
a
number
of
areas.
K
They
also
noted
at
that
time
investments
in
private
Enterprise,
such
as
Telus
Babylon,
need
to
be
redirected
to
enable
those
that
have
been
providing
care
to
our
communities
continue
to
do
so.
I
know
that
between
the
two
of
us,
we've
rehashed
that
history
a
number
of
times.
It
was
something
that
you
inherited
as
opposed
to
a
decision
you
personally
made,
but
we
do
recall
that
initially
family
doctors
in
Alberta
were
offered
twenty
dollars
for
a
visit
virtually
while
a
contract
was
signed
with
telus's
Babylon
down
notice,
Telus
Health,
my
Care
at
37.50
per
visit.
K
C
K
And
from
the
acfp
in
sort
of
the
bad
blood
that's
created
with
doctors,
can
you
provide
some
clarity,
I
guess
on
how
much
longer
that
current
contract
would
be
running
them
with
talents
for
those
services?
Are
there
dollars
in
this
budget,
whether
in
Physician,
Services
or
another
line,
to
continue
to
pay
those
amounts
to
tell
us
my
health
and
is
there
an
intent
to
transition
those
dollars
to
Alberta
family
doctors
through
the
the
recommendation
for
maps
so.
J
I'll
I'll
start
off
and
then
I'll,
maybe
ask
DM
Smith
to
to
comment
on
it.
So
so
we
we
recognize
that
virtual
care
is
an
is
a
an
important
aspect
to
be
able
to
provide
care
to
to
albertans,
particularly
in
rural
areas
like
we
had
a
Innovation
Forum
in
January,
and
one
of
the
key
elements
coming
out
of
that
forum
and
I
expect
this
to
be
reflected
in
the
Final
maps
report.
J
You
know
the
bricks
and
mortar
and
all
the
where,
which
isn't
need
in
a
virtual
clinic
and
there's
a
recognition
that
that
the
a
a
pure
virtual
Clinic
needs
to
be
different
than
a
a
pure.
You
know
seeing
per
someone
in
person
like
in
terms
of
the
fees
associated
with
that,
but
then
you
have
the
the
challenge
of
doing
both
right
and
a
combination
of
both
and
what's
the
fair.
J
So
those
conversations
are
going
right
now
in
regards
to
tell
us
I'm,
gonna,
I'm
gonna
kick
that
over
to
ADM
Smith,
because,
quite
frankly,
we
haven't
been
focused
on
that.
You
know
that
is
a
you
know.
That
is
a
way
to
provide
service,
but
we
need
to
get
this
other
area
fixed
and
fixed
first
before
we
move
forward,
but
I
don't
know
yeah.
H
M
Aaa
agreement,
we
had
very
specific
time,
Define,
there's
a
commitments
to
actually
review
some
of
the
virtual
care
codes
that
we
had
an
odd
instituted
during
the
pandemic,
because
we
actually
instituted
a
number
of
very
important
basic
virtual
care
codes
to
properly
compensate
the
Physicians
over
the
pandemic,
and
we
made
those
permanent.
So
as
part
of
the
AMA
agreement,
we
committed,
together
with
the
AMA,
to
revisit
a
lot
of
the
codes
that
we're
at
play,
but
weren't
necessarily
instituted
at
that
time.
M
Some
examples:
Pediatrics,
like
yeah,
Drake,
Type
codes
that
that
game
they
felt
were
very,
very
important
and
I
think
it's
the
Society
of
a
psychiatrist
as
well
brought
to
bear.
So
we're
actually
actively
discussion
discussing
that
actually
this
week
down
with
AMA
about
how
we're
going
to
further
that
and
ultimately
bring
those
forward
for
implementation,
so
that
work
carries
on
and
there's
some
broader
tables
as
well.
That
are
looking
at
the
future
virtual
care.
More
broadly
from
a
policy
perspective.
K
So
thank
you
to
the
minister
and
Deputy
Minister
then
for
their
response
on
that
Minister
you
brought
up
then
I,
guess
looking
at
other
forms
of
payment
and
I
recognize
fee
for
service
may
not
be
the
best
choice
in
every
case
and
I
appreciate
that
there
is
some
ongoing
Dialogue
on
that
going
now
in
a
more
collaborative
form.
I
do
recall
back
this
was
raised
in
the
McKinnon
report.
K
K
The
approach
under
your
predecessor
seemed
to
be
rather
aggressive
from
what
I
saw
was
look
to
take
sole
control
of
that
process
of
developing
new
Arps
cut
out
the
Physicians
elected
representatives
of
the
AMA
and
look
to
force
Physicians
to
negotiate
directly
with
Alberta
Health
and
choose
from
just
a
handful
of
one-size-fits-all
options.
Now
that
has
not
obviously
led
to
much
success.
Many
Physicians,
certainly
Family
Physicians,
were
at
points
desperate
for
stable
income,
I
think
over
the
last
few
years,
but
yet
we're
not
inclined
to
take
up
the
ministry
on
the
offer.
J
So
so
we,
as
part
of
this,
is
an
issue
that
we
spoke
about
at
the
AMA
table
and
we
actually
have
in
the
AMA
agreement.
We
fully
recognize
that
we
need
to
expand
different
methods
of
pay
and
it's
not
one
size
fits
all.
It's
going
to
be.
You
know
there
is
the
the
the
fee
for
service
model
and
that
and
that's
going
to
just
just
so
anyone
watching
that's
going
to
remain,
but
the
reality
is.
We
need
to
expand
different
approaches.
J
So
the
the
agreement
has
a
joint
commitment
to
expand
it
from
to
25
percent
I'm
hopeful
we'll
go
far
beyond
that,
because
you
look
at
other
jurisdictions
like
Ontario,
for
example,
that's
closer
to
50
right,
but
we
also
need.
We
also
know
that
we're
going
to
have
to
do
this
jointly.
We
there's
a
number
of
models
already
out
there
in
the
province.
Some
of
them
like
these
are
a
capitation
or
Blended
cap
models,
and
you
know
some
of
them
working
well,
but
we're
also
got
feedback
that
you
know
what
there's
problems
with
it.
J
So
we
are
actually
this
is
we
have
organized
and
I
don't
next,
two
weeks.
Next
three
weeks,
anyways
workshop
with
a
workshop
with
with
the
Blended
like
all
of
the
Blended
cap,
because
there's
a
number
of
clinics
across
the
across
the
province-
and
this
is
part
of
our
AMA
deal
to
actually
look
at
okay.
What's
working,
what's
not
working
and
then
how
can
we
improve
this?
And
what
are
the
options
we
want
to
provide?
And
that's
writing
the
agreement,
and
some
of
those
also,
you
know,
also
want
to
provide
pay
for
performance.
J
So
you
know
those
that
actually,
so
it's
not
only
about
a
base
pay
right
on
a
on
a
blended
cab,
but
also
where
we
get
improved
Health
outcomes
and
there's
additional
pay
for
that.
So
we
are
working
directly
with
the
AMA
in
terms
of
developing
refining,
further
refining,
the
models
we
have
and
developing
the
model,
so
we
can
actually
roll
them
out
with
a
commitment
to
to
get
to
at
least
25
and
I'm
I'm
hopeful
that
will
do
nor
do
more.
J
But
I
also
appreciate
that
you
know
even
the
current
models
that
we
have.
You
know
it's
been
identified
so
that
there's
some
problems
with
them.
So,
let's
fix
those
first
and
then
roll
it
out
and
then
keep
work
working
together,
because
I
also
know
that
when
you
put
something
out
there,
you
know
getting
it
100
right.
It's
not
going
to
happen,
but
that's
okay.
As
long
as
you
measure
and
continue
to
talk
then
modify
it.
Then
we
can
move
forward
on
that.
K
Well,
thank
you.
Minister
and
I
I
do
appreciate
again
and
recognize
the
collaborative
process
you're
bringing
to
this
because,
as
I
noted
and
many
points
over
the
last
few
years,
when
it
comes
particularly
negotiating
with
Physicians,
particularly
the
family
positions,
that
has
not
been
the
case
and
indeed
again,
I
commend
you
on
the
agreement.
K
So
while
I
do
appreciate
the
possibilities
that
are
available
now,
as
you
engage
in
this
collaborative
process
with
Physicians
with
others
at
the
table
on
things
like
alternative
payment
plans
and
some
of
these
other
pieces
I
do
have
to
wonder
how
much
ground
could
we
have
gained
if
that
would
have
been
the
process
to
begin
with.
Instead
of
the
heavy-handed
approach
that
we
saw,
that
was
brought
in
initially
and
frankly,
the
damage
that
did
for
I
think
a
number
of
Physicians
and
that
you
know
I
know.
K
K
B
F
You
thank
you,
madam
chair,
and
thank
you,
Mr
I,
think,
based
on
what
I
heard
from
last
a
question
that
I
had
for
you
with
respect
to
Continued
Care
and
modernization
and
transformation,
thing
I
think
you
have
a
comprehensive
plan
which
looks
at
a
number
of
aspects
to
modernize.
That's
good!
Thank
you
very
much
on
that
I'll
move
on
to
on
the
same
continuing
caring,
another
question.
J
Thanks
very
much
for
the
question
you
know
as
we
as
indicated
our
last
conversation
that
you
know
we
we
know
we
need
to
still,
even
though
our
focus
is
on
on
you
know,
shifting
to
Home
Care
is
part
of
our
plan.
We
know
we
still
need
to
increase
the
capacity
in
our
Continuing
Care
sector.
You
know
basically
more
beds
because
of
the
sheer
number
of
of
people
that
we're
that
are
coming
at
us,
given
the
demographics.
J
So
you
know
AHS
plans
on
spending
60
million
per
year
over
the
next
three
years
on
the
Continuing
Care
capacity
plan.
It's
estimated
this
level
of
funding
will
support
up
to
202
sorry,
2
300
net
new
spaces
from
2324
to
25.
26
AHS
is
also
targeting
to
open
up
750
Community
Care
beds
in
2324.
This
includes
long-term
care
designated
supported,
living
and
mental
health
beds,
as
well
as
mental
health,
adult
Day
program,
spaces,
community
hospice
beds
and
other
community
residential
wraparound
health
ports.
J
Implementing
implementation
is
ongoing
and
AHS
is
always
reviewing
opportunities
to
increase
Continuing
Care
spaces.
Now
the
ministry
is
is
also
working
to
improve
continuing
care
options
for
all
Auburn's.
This
includes
expanding
the
number
of
Continuing
Care
beds
across
the
province,
particularly
in
high
need
areas
and
improving
quality
and
access
to
care
in
both
continuing
care
and
Home.
Care
settings
and
many
of
these
bed
increases
are
possible
thanks
to
the
new
Partnerships,
with
Community
providers
to
be
able
to
do
that
and
Innovative
arrangements
for
both
Continuing
Care,
Homes
and
I.
J
Just
wanted
to
point
out
like
this
is,
in
addition
to
you
know,
budget
2022,
200
million,
that
we
committed
also
previous
to
that
through
a
rfeoq.
Approximately
1500
spaces
were
awarded
that's
non-capital,
but
by
commitment
by
committing
to
the
to
fund
the
the
operating
expense
1500.
So
we
are
significantly
demanding
our
capacity
and
then,
of
course,
as
I
mentioned
before
the
700
spaces
in
Bethany
and
the
Good
Samaritan
and
Calgary
and
Edmonton.
F
F
J
Well,
thanks
so
much
for
the
question
and
you're
quite
right.
This
is
a
key
issue
for
our
government.
This
is
part
of
our
our
Health
action
plan.
To
get
our
response
times
down
and
be
able
to
do
that,
we
need
to
have
people
to
be
able
to.
You
know,
expand
the
capacity,
so
we
can
actually
get
the
get
the
times
down.
So
you
know
when
we
take
a
look
at
your
first
question
in
regards
to
EMS
staff
training.
You
know
part
of
budget
2023.
J
Ahs
EMS
will
be
investing
approximately
19
million
dollars
in
Workforce
and
training
activities.
Now
the
workforce
and
training
recommendations
for
Apec
and
the
PWC
dispatch
report
include
focusing
on
initiatives
such
as
staff
fatigue,
Management,
Mental,
Health
and
Wellness
clinical
training,
leadership,
development,
culture
and
training,
additional
staff
and
ground
ambulance
and
dispatch
settings,
so
so
that'll
go
towards
those
and
the
workforce
and
training
Investments
and
initiatives
are
designed
to
enhance
support
EMS
across
our
across
our
entire
province.
J
In
regards
to
your
question
about
how
much
will
be
spent
on
new
new
hires
AHS
EMS
plans
to
on
investing
an
additional
20
million
dollars
to
hire
new
staff
in
dispatching
ground
ambulances
in
Red,
Deer,
Lethbridge
Calgary
and
in
Edmonton?
This
result
represents
a
net
new
hiring
of
staff
and
increase
of
over
a
hundred
thousand
staffed
ambulance
hours
right.
You
know
from
a
the
an
hour
hourly
standpoint,
and
this
is
in
addition
to
the
normal
hiring
of
Staff
across
the
across
the
province
and
it.
J
Finally,
in
regards
to
your
your
last
question,
you
know
what
are
the
current
full-time
and
part-time
EMS
workers
currently
and
what
are
the
amount
money
would
be
used
to
try
to
move
part-time,
EMS
and
workers
to
full-time
roles.
You
know
currently
and
I-
think
I
gave
this
out
earlier
this
morning,
but
current
full-time
UMass
staff
consists
of
of
2095
employees.
The
current
part-time
Staffing
consists
of
340
employees.
J
Now
these
these
figures,
just
don't
do
not
include
the
11
over
1184
casual
employees,
employed
by
a
EMS
and
AHS,
is
currently
posting
positions
that
would
convert
70,
temporary
part-time
to
regular,
full-time
and
80
net
new
full-time
positions
to
staff
the
the
new
ambulances
you
know.
We
we
fully
appreciate
that
we
need
more
human
resources
to
be
able
to
run
the
ambulances,
and
so
this
is
part
of
our
plan.
To
do
that.
J
F
G
Thank
you,
Emily
chair
through
you
to
the
minister
I've
heard
from
many
of
my
constituents
as
I'm
sure
most
others
have
around
this
room
about
the
challenges
they've
experienced
with
our
provinces.
Health
Care,
System
I'm,
happy
to
see
yet
another
year
of
record
Health
Care
spending,
but
my
constituents
are
going
to
be
asking
me
how
we
will
be
seeing
this
new
spending
improve
our
system
when
looking
at
page
63
of
your
business
plan
key
objective
1.1
about
implementing
the
health
care
action
plan.
J
Well,
thanks
thanks
so
much
for
the
question
and-
and
you
know
we
are
seeing
some
success
with
our
Healthcare
action
plan.
There's
there's
only
me
wrong.
There's
more
work
to
be
done
here
and
that's
budget
2023,
you
know,
provides
more
funding
to
not
only
increase
the
increase
the
staff
and
increase
the
capacity
within
our
system,
but
also
to
focus
on
process
improvements.
So
we
can
get
the
results
that
that
we
that
we
need
to
get.
J
As
you
know,
we
launched
the
healthcare
action
plan
in
in
November
and
we
were
able
to
report
back
out
a
couple
weeks
ago
on
the
the
90
and
the
90-day
Report,
with
Dr
Cowell,
our
official
administrator
and
the
and
the
premier
on
the
the
key
objectives
outlined
in
the
healthcare
action
plan.
So
the
first
is
approving
EMS
response
times,
and
so
you
know
as
part
of
the
we
look
at
the
EMS
wait
times
as
part
of
the
90-day
report.
J
You
know
Metro
and
urban
areas,
a
reduction
from
21.8
minutes
to
17
minutes
communities
over
3
000.
You
know
21.5
minutes
to
19.2,
that's
a
little
more
closer
to
your
neck
of
the
neck
of
the
woods
also
decreases
in
Rural
and
and
in
remote
communities
and
and
part
of
that
was
driven
by.
You
know
the
additional
resources
that
have
been
been
provided.
J
You
know
new
new
ambulances
in
in
in
Red,
Deer
and
19
year
old,
since
in
Calgary
and
and
and
Edmonton,
and
also
a
number
of
you
know,
actions
being
taken
like
the
movement
to
911
811,
where
you
know
roughly
10,
sometimes
depending
where
we
are
20
of
the
calls,
don't
actually
require
an
ambulance.
So
we
rated
8-1-1
to
reduce
the
demand,
so
we
improved
the
the
response
time.
So
you
know
that
was
the
one
area
where
we
we
and
we
that
was
part
of
the
healthcare
action
plan.
J
Where
we've
seen
improvements
now
the
other
area
is
decreasing,
depart
the
emergency
department
of
wait
time.
So
you
know,
we've
seen
again
between
November
and
January,
a
reduction
from
7.1
hours
to
6.4
hours,
decreasing
emergency
weight,
Department
wait
times
and
again
that
was,
you
know,
assisted
through
additional
resources
in
the
the
emergency
departments
working
through
the
flow
through
in
the
entire
part
and
I'm
happy
to
talk
more.
K
K
So
in
his
recent
report,
Dr
Cowell
claims
a
number
of
improvements
in
wait
times
for
ambulances,
which
you
also
referenced
in
the
house
this
week,
stating
they've
been
reduced
by
about
10
percent.
So
can
you
just
clarify
what
are
the
parameters
for
that
measurement?
When
is
the
clock
considered
to
start
and
stop
to
calculate
the
length
of
that
weight
and
are
those
parameters
remaining
consistent
from
previous
from
previous
data?
So
the
comparisons
being
made
Apples
to
Apples
between
the
previous
reports
and
this
new
report
from
Dr
Cal.
J
You
know
typically
historically,
we'd
actually
refer
to
50th
percentile,
the
data
we're
referring
to
90th
percentile
and
the
reason
that
we
changed
the
90th
percentile
quite
frankly,
is
because
it
captures
more
of
the
instances
of
so
you
know
if
at
the
50th
percentile
it's
you
know,
that's
fifty
percent
above
and
below
right
of
of
the
calls,
but
that
doesn't
the
outlier
is
going
to
have
a
huge
impact
on
that
right.
So
the
90th
percentile
you
actually
catch
catching
more
more
of
those
outliers
in
terms
of
doing
that.
J
So
that's
what
the
the
numbers
were
were
associated
with
that
in
terms
of
the
of
the
the
the
times
for
for
each
of
those,
in
terms
of
you
know,
EMS
wait
times
and
I'll
have
to
you
know
my
understanding
it
and
I'll
have
to
I
may
actually
need
to
get
back
to
be
be
more
precise,
with
my
understanding.
Is
that
the
time
that
the
call
has
come
in
and
it's
determined
that
that
we're
sending
an
ambulance
to
the
time
that
the
the
the
ambulance
arrives?
J
You
know
that
is
the
times
that
we
were
talking
about
in
terms
of
for
higher
Acuity
calls
at
the
90th
percentile.
So
that
is
what
the
the
doll
my
understanding
is.
That
is
that
hasn't.
That
is
the
same
that
it
was
actually
in
terms
of
track
before,
but
typically
often
when
we
talked
about
this
before
it's
a
50th
percentile,
not
the
90th,
but
we're
using
the
90s,
because
it
captures
more
of
the
calls
and
and
make
sure
that
we
have
fewer
outliers.
All.
K
J
K
Thank
you
Minister.
That
was
that
was
really
all
I
needed
to
hear
in
the
report.
Dr
Kell
also
claims
a
significant
reduction
in
red
alerts,
so
from
1092
in
the
Edmonton
Zone
in
January,
22
to
for
a
total
of
39.7
hours,
due
to
only
81
for
a
total
of
1.8
hours
in
January
2023
in
Calgary
328
for
a
total
of
8.1
hours
and
then
134
and
3.2
as
of
this
year.
To
clarify
again,
are
these
comparisons
like
for
like
using
the
same
criteria
from
beauty
or.
L
K
Just
because
I've
had
some
paramedics
reach
out
to
me
and
they've
sort
of
said:
hey
are
these
new
stats,
including
the
prus,
because
they,
according
to
this
paramedic,
those
weren't
included
before,
because
they're
not
able
to
transport
a
patient,
so
in
other
words,
a
pru
being
on
scene
would
not
necessarily
count
as
ending
a
red
alert.
So
I
just
want
to
clarify
I.
Guess
that
again,
we're
comparing
like
for
like
in
this
statement
from
Dr
Cowell
about
the
change
in
the
number
of
red
alerts.
So.
J
K
J
Data
and
we
need
transparent
data,
so
that
is
the
intent
behind
this.
My
understanding
it
is
like
because
otherwise
that's
a
false,
that's
false
comparison,
and
we
can't
make
that
now
the
when
we
talk
about
the
you
know,
prus
the
you
know-
and
this
is
what
and
you're
talking
about
infertility
transfers-
is
that
what
you're
talking
about
yeah
or
you're
talking
about.
J
So
yeah
I'm
not
quite
sure,
where
you're
getting
because
just
remember
the
purpose
of
a
red
alert
is
it's
actually
a
management
tool
and
it's
a
management
tool
to
say
we
do
not
have
an
ambulance
there
at
this
point
in
time.
That
could
receive
a
a
call.
So
it's
we
need
to
get
one
on
Deck
to
be
able
to
do
that.
That's
the
purpose
of
a
red
alert,
and
so
it's
it's
a
management
tool
to
do
that.
It
doesn't
necessarily
mean
that
the
columnists
it
just
means.
K
K
A
chance
to
follow
up
on
that,
so
along
simple
lines.
Last
year
you
announced
a
new
ambulance
for
Airdrie
that
began
operating
I,
believe
last
April,
covering
both
the
inter-facility
transfers
and
the
emergency
response.
Now,
according
to
some
local
leaders,
that
I
had
the
chance
to
speak
with
over
the
last
couple
over.
C
K
The
last
week,
pardon
me
now
the
arrows
Airdrie
ambulances
were
largely
out
of
the
area
answering
calls
in
dudesbury
and
Calgary
over
the
last
two
weekends,
so
they're
concerned,
and
this
is
directly
from
them.
You
know
there's
concern
that
the
call
times
are
not
reflective
of
all
the
call
times
and
suspect
that
air
dream
may
be
included
in
rural
numbers
for
response
time
and
not
Urban
ones.
Can
you
just
clarify
against
sort
of
Vegas
where
the,
where
the
Adrian
ambulance,
Falls
and
sort
of
in
terms
of
them
being
able
to
understand
those
stats.
F
J
J
Well,
you
know,
as
part
of
part
of
our
system
like
I,
can
tell
you
as
part
of
our
system,
is
that
we
provided,
you
know
more
emphasis
in
Calgary
and
additional
ambience
in
in
air
degree.
Now
part
of
our
system
is
we
move
ambulances
around
to
be
able
to
provide
care
with
the
highest
levels
of
care
where
they're
needed
at
that
point
at
that
point
in
time,
but
there's
coverage
there's
coverage
both
ways.
J
But
what's
really
important
is
again:
it
goes
back
to
the
response
times
right
because,
even
though
we're
moving
resources
around
in
the
in
the
area
in
the
region
is
what
is
the
ultimate
response
time
so
I
can
get
back
to
you
on
on
whether
or
not
they
were
in
the
communities
over
3000
or
or
they
considered
in
that
Metro
urban
area,
which
I
think
they
are
but
I
haven't
I
I.
Don't
know
that
for
certain,
so
we'll
get
back
to
you
on
that.
K
K
Let's
take
a
look
one
here,
so
the
child
health
benefit
line,
5.9
and
notice
that
the
forecast
is
coming
in
quite
a
bit
lower
than
what
was
budgeted
about
12
million.
Your
estimate
for
this
year
is
set
just
above
that
forecast
level,
so
retaining
that
sort
of
lowered
figure
I'm
just
wondering
if
you
can
provide
a
bit
of
detail
over
the
reason
that
this
came
in
so
much
lower
than
had
been
budgeted,
and
why
expect
that
Trend
to
continue.
F
J
J
This
is
applies
to
children.
You
know
lower
income
families
with
children,
so
they
have
essential
health
benefits
associated
with
this
and
there's
a
number
of
moving
pieces
to
how
we
actually
do
the
do
the
assessment
and
it's
hard
to
get
it
necessarily
bang
on
right.
That's
why
you
see
the
the
variability
with
those
lower
anticipated
lower
last
year,
but
it's
actually
higher.
You
know.
So
it's
there's
three
things
that
were
you
know
that
are
assessed
being.
J
That's
part
part
of
the
issue,
and
this
is
why,
even
where
we
actually
you
know
we're
saying:
okay,
this
year,
it's
it's
the
the
number
that
the
number
of
people
that
are
on
so
is,
as
the
economy
improves.
You
actually
have
fewer
people
that
are
eligible
for
it.
That's
that's
one
thing:
you
actually
have
more
kids
in
certain
areas,
but
some
of
them
are
actually
going
over
18,
so
they
go
from
this
benefit
to
the
future.
B
Thank
you
so
much
Minister,
sorry,
Minister,
sorry
Mister.
We
need
to
move
on,
so
we
we
will
move
back
over
to
the
government
caucus
side
and
after
this
10
minute
exchange,
then
we'll
stop
for
our
break
and
then
when
we
resume
I'll
have
MLA
Smith.
Take
over
my
duty
here
as
chair.
So
please
proceed.
Remember.
G
Thank
you
chair
through
you
to
the
minister
to
follow
up
on
reducing
surgical,
wait
times
page
79
of
the
fiscal
plan
talks
about
restoring
decision
making
to
local
Health
Care
Professionals
to
help
incentivize
Regional
innovation.
Can
the
minister
or
Minister
please
explain
how
local
decision
making
is
being
restored
as
part
of
this
process.
J
J
You
know
over
1100
individuals
involved
in
health
care,
Continuing,
Care
operators,
AHS
employees,
you
know
Patient
Advocates
people
and
advisory
committees
and
a
large
number
of
AHS
employees,
both
managers
and
people
on
the
on
the
front
line,
and
one
of
the
message
that
that
they
gave
to
me
was,
you
know
quite
frankly,
they
they
felt
they
were
disempowered,
they're
unable
to
make
decisions
at
the
local
level.
We
even
had
instances
where
you
know
the
the
local
hospitals
had
to
wait
months
to
get
approval
to
buy
two
chairs.
J
So
we
heard
that
loud
and
clear-
and
this
is
one
of
the
reasons
why
we
gave
the
you
know,
making
this
a
an
important
issue
for
for
Dr
Cowell
is
to
push
down
operational
decision
making
now
I
I
fully
appreciate.
There
are
huge
advantages
to
having
a
single.
You
know
Health
provider
like
AHS
in
terms
of
the
ability
to
procure.
J
Whether
that
be
you
know,
supplies
or
equipment
at
a
cost-effective
manner
to
be
able
to
ensure
that
you
know
the
care
provided
in
beggarville
is
the
same
as
Edmonton
the
same
as
in
Ford.
Mack
is
the
same
as
High
Prairie,
so
there's
huge
advantages
to
having
a
single
system
but
disadvantages.
Also,
if
you
decentralize
operational
decision
making
the
inability
of
people
to
make
decisions
on
the
ground
and
be
able
to
move
quickly.
J
So
you
know,
that
is
why
we,
we
actually
asked
Dr
Cowell
to
work
with
the
executive,
lead
team
to
push
down
decision
making
to
enable
more
decisions
to
be
made
locally.
You
know,
I
I,
know
that
you
know.
First
part
of
you
know
that
piece
is
actually
having
enough
people
and
I
talked
about
that
a
little
bit
already
and
there's
a
separate
plan
on
that.
But
I
want
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
you
know.
J
You
know
some
of
the
decisions
that
have
already
happened
to
be
able
to
push
down
decision
making
and
one
example
is
hiring
right.
So
you
know
to
shorten
the
process.
You
know
you
know
if
you
have
a
person
that
you
need
to
they
replace
it's
in
your
budget,
then
go
in
higher.
You
can
actually
engage
centralized
HR
for
for
that
within
you
know,
but
actually
go
out
and
actually
do
that
without
waiting
it
to
go
up
the
line,
get
approval
and
then
go
all
the
way
back
down.
So
that's
one
piece
of
it.
J
The
other
piece
of
it
is
actually
you
know
pushing
down
decision
making
in
terms
of
you
know,
decisions
in
terms
of
of
some
local
Capital
decisions
or
how
are
we
gonna
like
within
the
standards
of
practice?
How
are
we
going
to
deliver
that?
So
you
know
when
I
take
a
look
at
the
Alberta
surgical
initiative.
You
know,
one
of
the
things
is,
you
know,
as
a
key
part
of
that
is
leveraging
local
hospitals
to
perform
more
more
surgeries,
and
you
know
one
example
of
this
is
is
in
our
chair
cameras.
J
You
know,
in
terms
of
you
know,
engaging
folks
locally
in
terms
of
what
do
we
need
to
do
to
actually
get
an
operating
up
and
running?
There
was
one
small
change
that
needed
to
be
made
from
a
capital.
We
actually
had
the
people
already
there
to
actually
start
doing
more
surgeries,
and
so
they've
already
started
to
do
that.
So
that's
an
example,
but
you
know,
but
it
didn't
have
to
go
all
the
way
up
and
all
the
way
down
in
terms
of
decision.
They
can
actually
move
forward
and
do
that
now.
J
This
is
culture
change
and
it's
going
to
take
time,
but
this
is
important
that
we
need
to
do
in
terms
of
pushing
down
decision
making.
That's
just
one.
You
know
one
example
but
the,
but
we
need
to
continue
to
do
that.
You
know
maintain
the
benefits
of
a
single
system
while
at
the
same
time
allow
more
flexibility
locally
to
be
able
to
make
the
decisions
to
be
able
to
provide
the
services,
and
that
also
deals
with
the
whole
issue
of
of
culture
for
employees.
J
You
know
the
place
where
you
want
to
work
is
where
you
think
you
can
make
a
difference.
We
have
fantastic
employees
who
work
incredibly
hard
and
they
want
to
make
a
difference.
So,
let's
enable
them
to
make
a
difference,
and
this
is
you
know,
one
of
the
key
ways
we're
doing
it
and
one
of
the
changes
that
we're
focused
on
through
the
the
the
health
action
plan.
G
Thank
you,
minister,
through
your
chair
to
your
minister,
page
79
of
the
fiscal
plan.
States
ER
wait
times
are
being
addressed
by
bringing
in
additional
health
professionals
to
deliver
better
on-site,
patient
care,
improve
patient
flow
and
shorten
transfer
times
Minister.
Can
you
give
us
an
update
on
how
this
and
any
other
improvements
we've
introduced?
Excuse
me
have
improved
ER,
wait
time
so
far,.
J
J
So
you
know,
AHS
has
been
focused
on
all
elements
of
this,
because
if
we
increase
the
flow,
we
can
get
more
people
through
fashion
and
decrease
the
wait
times.
So
there's
been
a
ton
of
work,
that's
been
done
in
this
regard
and
I'll
talk.
I'll
talk
at
the
end
of
it.
You
know
what's
been
incredibly
helpful,
you
know
as
a
part
of
our
government
expanding
Continuing
Care
spaces,
and
that
means
we
increase
the
flow.
J
So
there
is
a
you
know,
a
number
of
people
waiting
who
are
are
already
you
know
been
cleared
to
leave
the
hospital,
but
we
don't
have
a
place
for
him,
an
ultimate
level
of
care.
You
know
they
have
been
able
to
reduce
that
number
by
probably
from
roughly
400
to
to
it's
slightly
over
200.
Be
able
to
do
that.
J
We
had
an
announcement
in
in
Edmonton
about
the
Jasper
place
so
for
those
or
homeless
to
give
them
a
place
of
the
care,
so
they're
not
re-entering
the
system
and
then
be
able
to
move
out.
You
know
for
some
who
go
through
the
emergency
department
then
put
an
inpatient.
They
can
go
and
go
out
there
go
out
to
a
place
sooner
when
they're,
when
they're
stabilized
to
do
that.
But
it's
also
in
terms
of
home
care
right
in
terms
of
you
know.
J
So
that's
on
that
end
of
the
of
the
spectrum,
the
also
in
terms
of
expanding
capacity
within
our
Health
Care
system,
so
part
of
this
budget
and
what
we've
already
done
is
expanded
the
number
of
inpatient
beds
so
that
we
have
more
capacity
to
be
able
to
flow
through
through
that
and
then
on.
The
front
end
is-
and
we
were
talking-
we've
been
talking
about
that
over
the
last
number
of
days
is-
is
hiring
more
triage
staff
to
be
able
to
receive
patients
and
do
the
assessment.
J
So
you
know
in
a
an
additional
114
full-time
codes
which
will
do
two
things.
One
is
we
can
do
faster
triage,
but
also
that
means
the
drop
off
for
ambulances
can
come
in
drop
off
and
get
out
in
our
45-minute
Target
to
be
able
to
get
back
on
the
streets
to
be
able
to
serve
the
serve
the
next
patient
and
and
then
it's
also
about
demand
management
right.
So
you
know
the
911
to
8-1-1.
So
that's
demand
management.
J
You
know,
people
say
you
know,
provide
the
health
care
they
need
without
necessarily
taking
to
the
hospital,
because
they,
actually
you
don't
don't
need
some,
but
some
that
do
we
will
get
them
there
and
we'll
provide
that
we'll
we'll
provide
that
service
and
also
allowing
paramedics
to
be
able
to
treat
on
site
right
and
make
that
and
make
that
call
with
more
flexibility.
So
all
of
this
together
is
actually
getting.
You
know.
It
impacts.
J
Wait
time
that
one
one
metric,
but
this
is
a
ton
of
Warrant,
that's
being
involved
and
we're
as
part
of
the
90-day
plan.
We
actually
are
making
progress
in
that,
but
there
is
no
Silver
Bullet.
This
is
affecting
not
only
our
systems
but
assistance
across
the
country,
but
it's
a
lot
of
little
things
that
will
add
up,
that'll,
improve
it
and
we're
still
not
done.
G
H
So
I
really
want
to
give
a
lot
of
credit
to
you
and
your
entire
staff,
your
entire
team
for
all
the
hard
work
that
they
have
been
doing
as
they
try
to
work
through
a
lot
of
the
bureaucracy,
quite
honestly
and
then
other
things
to
address
those
issues.
So
again.
Thank
you
all
so
much
for
your
amazing
work
on
this
file.
B
A
A
A
A
A
E
L
So
I
want
to
ask
a
little
bit
about
the
decision
or
the
announcement
in
December
2022
when
the
government
announced
that
it
had
secured
5
million
units
of
children's
acetaminophen
and
ibuprofen
from
adibe
Pharmaceuticals,
of
course,
about
250
000
bottles
of
acetaminophen
arrived
in
January
this
year
and
of
course,
I
recently
saw
an
announcement
that
perhaps
another
270
000
bottles
were
received
actually
just
late
last
week,
although
have
not
yet
hit
the
shelves.
So
we're
still
looking
at
about
4.5
million
bottles
that
are
outstanding.
L
J
L
J
J
70
million
is
the
the
cost
of
medication,
while
10
million
is
the
cost
for
shipping
waste
disposal
and
other
administrative
costs.
Now,
just
just
to
be
clear,
the
government
doesn't
allow
us
to
we
show
expense
separately,
and
then
we
show
Revenue
separately
and
so
the
the
intent
is
we
actually
expect
a
a
shipment
is
sorry.
It's
actually
already
arrived.
J
We
were
it's
being
distributed,
the
250
000
bottles.
We
expect
two
other
additional
shipments
to
be
coming
in
over
the
next
little
while
we
are
working
with
other
provinces,
so
we've
had
one
other
problems
indicated
that
they
want
access
to
this,
and
then
we're
also
going
to
be
have
you
know
conversations
with
other
jurisdictions
about
access
to
this,
so
we
will,
and
we
will
be-
we
made
a
commitment
to
albertans
that
once
it
hits
the
shells,
we
will
be
subsidizing,
so
they're
going
to
be
paying
about
approximately.
J
J
L
A
J
Yeah,
so
we
I
may
have
to
get
back
to
you
on
it,
because
I'm
going
some,
the
the
Distributors
will
be
charged,
678
a
bottle
and
then
they'll
charge
a
regular
markup,
so
that'll
actually
be
able
to
get
them
in
at
seven
dollars.
My
recollection
is
that
it
was
approximately
14
a
bottle
like
landed
costs
and
then
the
so
that,
and
we
have
secured
for
our
own
use.
J
We
are,
you
know,
working
with
other
jurisdictions
to
say
you
know:
do
you
want
that
and
then
our
intent
is
to
be
able
to
provide
them
at
cost.
We're
not
looking
to
make
money
on
this,
but
provide
it
to
a
cost,
and
so
we're
working
through
that
right
now,
but
ADM
Chad
Mitchell.
Can
you
speak
to
the?
Do
you
have
the
more
more
details
on
the
the
costume
unit?
L
Thank
you
through
the
chair,
so
I,
you
know,
I
am
a
parent
of
young
kids.
I
have
I
struggled
with
not
being
able
to
find
those
pain,
meds
myself
during
the
the
winter
months,
and
it
was
it,
was
pretty
stressful,
but
I
have
you
know,
gone
to
the
stores
recently
and
I've
actually
found
that
it
is
available.
L
It's
certainly
not
stock,
maybe
to
the
same
level
as
it
was
before,
and
perhaps
there's
disparities
across
regions
of
the
province,
I'm
sure
and
that's
a
possibility.
But
generally
speaking,
most
parents
are
able
to
currently
get
some
children's
Tylenol,
certainly
and
even
children's
Advil,
it's
even
available
through
Amazon
right
now
it
can
get
delivered
to
your
doorstep.
L
So
I
guess
one
of
the
questions
I
have
is
that
you
know,
as
a
parent,
I'm
less
likely
to
buy
a
brand
of
a
medication
that
I'm
not
familiar
with
I
know
my
kids
can
take
Tylenol
and
Advil
they've
taken
it
before
I
mean
are.
Is
the
ministry
concerned
about
the
ability
to
sell
these
products
in
the
what
happens
if
parents
are
not
purchasing
it
either
because
there's
enough
of
the
product
they
already
are
familiar
with,
or
they
just
just
choose
not
to
buy
that
product?
J
So
you
know
this:
the
product
will
be
sold
like
in
in
many
of
the
products
right
now,
because
there
still
is
a
shortage
sold
behind
counter.
So
you
know
that
the
fact
that
it's
behind
the
counter,
where
you
know
someone
says
I,
need
this.
While
you,
you
know,
if
you
have
this
option
or
that
option
right
and
this
option
has
a
slightly
different
dosage,
but
it's
you
know
perfectly
safe.
J
Actually,
this
you
know
it's
actually
sold
in
Europe,
it's
I
I
appreciate
it
is
different,
but
as
a
parent,
it's
you
know
when
you
want
it
and
you
need
it
and
you
have
a
and
I've
been
there.
You
have
a
kid
who's
running
a
fever
and
you
haven't
got
anything
to
bring
it
down
and
they're
crying.
You
want
it
right
now.
So
the
you
know
the
ability
to
actually
have
that
and
make
sure
that's
available
for
for
parents
is,
is
important.
J
J
L
Okay,
well,
thank
you.
Minister
I
mean
I
no
doubts
about
the
safety
of
the
product,
it's
being
approved
by
how
Canada
and
all
that
no
dispute
about
that.
But
I
guess
my
concern
is:
we
are
relying
upon
we've.
Basically,
the
government
has
purchased
5
million
bottles
for
approximately
770
000
children
under
the
age
of
14
in
the
province
right.
So
we
always
knew
there
was
going
to
be
a
lot
more
product
than
we
would
have
the
market
for
even
at
peak
times
right,
even
at
shortage
times.
So
in
that
situation,
I
mean.
L
Is
there
a
contract
like?
How
assured
can
the
public
be
that
you're
going
to
be
able
to
resell
this
product
either
within
Alberta
or
to
another
jurisdiction?
You
mentioned
other
jurisdictions
have
expressed
interest?
Is
there
a
contract
in
place?
Can
were
you
expecting
to
recover
the
cost?
You
basically
said
you
paid
twice
the
amount
of
what
the
cost
is.
Obviously,
there's
demand
for
it,
but
how
can
albertans
get
some
confidence
that
they're
actually
going
to
recover
some
of
those
dollars?
Yeah.
J
Well,
partially,
because
we're
selling
it
here
and
then
partially
is
because
we
actually
are
having
conversations
we
haven't
reached
contracts
yet,
but
that
work
is
work
is
ongoing
and
we'll
keep
albertans
up
to
date.
But
you
know
the
conversations
that
I've
been
having
you
know
with
other
jurisdictions
is
where
there
is
still
shortages.
J
J
E
J
H
Yeah
again
lots
of
misinformation
by
the
opposition
on
handing
off
patients.
Obviously
they
don't
understand
the
medical
legal,
ethical
issues
of
banning
patients,
but
never
mind
with
that.
I'm
just
wondering
if
you're
able
to
expand
on
where
the
funding
will
come
from
to
support
our
emergency
departments.
In
this
aspect.
J
Thanks,
thank
you
so
much
for
for
the
question
and
and
thanks
so
much
for
your
participation
in
in
Apec.
You
know
you
brought
significant
value
to
that,
especially
given
your
background
in
this
in
the
working
in
this
in
this
space.
So
so
the
90
million
is,
is
just
you
know.
A
large
portion
of
that
is
to
address
the
Apec
recommendation.
You
know
you
know
the
inter-facility
like,
including
the
inter-facility
transfers
and
the
the
dispatch.
You
know
the
dispatch
review.
J
You
know
the
recommendations
coming
out
of
the
the
the
PWC
dispatch
review,
the
the
funding
for,
for
example,
in
the
hospitals
itself.
That's
a
separate
line
item.
That's
coming
out
of
the
that's
on
the
the
acute
care
line
item
for
that,
but
we
do
know
that
you
know
improving
medical
EMS
response
times
is
one
of
our
priorities,
part
of
our
health
action
plan.
J
J
We
you
know
we
are
moving
forward
with
a
target
of
45
minutes
to
be
able
to
as
a
handoff,
but
it's
just
a
Target,
and
it
is
critically
important
that
you
know
you
know
patients
when
they
come
to
the
hospital
that
there
is
a
you
know,
a
triage
and
a
positive
confirmation
that
they're
handed
off
to
someone
who's
actually
going
to
be
able
to
look
after
them,
and
that
is
the
intent
behind
it.
We
will
be.
J
You
know
we're
in
the
process
of
hiring
more
staff
to
be
able
to
help
that
happen
and
in
our
largest
16
sites,
but
that's
a
critical
opponent
because,
as
you
know,
you
know,
paramedics
you
know
want
to
be
paramedics,
which
is
helping
individuals
getting
into
the
hospital
dropping
off
and
getting
back
on
the
road
again,
not
sitting
in
the
hospital
for
eight
hours.
That
is
not.
You
know
what
paramedics
want
to
do.
J
You
know,
other
Apec,
you
know,
proposals
and
and
I
mentioned
one
is
the
inter-facility
transfer,
there's
a
big
part
of
it
right.
So
you
know
right
now,
as
as
you
know,
we
have
some
of
our
you
know.
Highest
trained
paramedics
in
the
our
ambulances
that
are
are
kitted
out
for
emergency
response
and
they're
driving
patients.
Some
who
may
need
some
level
of
medical
care,
but
very
low
levels,
or
somebody
may
even
be
just
going
over.
J
We
don't
know
when
we're
just
taking
them
over
to
the
hospital
for
Diagnostics
and
actually
bring
them
back,
and
you
see
this
particularly
in
in
in
rural
areas
and
in
fact,
when
I
was
in
in
Red
Deer
I
was
able
to
you
know,
tour
the
facility
ability
there
last
last
spring
and
there
were
four
ambulances
in
the
bay.
Every
single
one
of
them
was
waiting
for
some
Diagnostics
to
be
done
and
then
take
them
back
to
their
home
Hospital,
which
we
don't
need
that
level
of
resource
resource.
J
To
do
that,
so
inter-facility
transfers
will
greatly
improve
that.
So
an
RFP
is
out
for
that
right
now
and
you
know
in
Calgary
and
Edmonton
also
we
in
Red
Deer,
actually
we're
running
a
pilot
in
in
that
regard,
to
to
be
able
to
do
that,
and
then
we'll
have
to
look
how
we
expand
that
as
we
as
we
learn
from
that.
So
you
know
that's
what
the
90
million
dollars
is
for.
H
Thank
you
so
much
for
that
answer.
Sir
I
know
the
minister
announced
several
new
changes
to
improve
our
EMS
system
over
the
last
several
months
and
again,
there's
some
examples
on
page
79
of
the
fiscal
plan
and
how
the
government
is
working
to
improve
response
times
for
EMS.
But
again,
can
the
minister
provide
us
with
any
other
examples
of
improvements,
we're
making
to
the
system
to
get
better
EMS
results
for
albertans
and
I?
Appreciate
you
talking
about
bringing
in
separate
services
to
provide
transfers.
J
Yeah,
no,
no
thanks!
So
much
for
that
and
and
the
I
was
happy
to
give
a
a
couple
more.
You
know
that
actually
stem
from
Apec
and
again,
thank
you
for
your
work
in
in.
In
that
you
know,
pilot
projects,
as
you
may
recall,
to
maximize
use
of
of
paramedics
in
integrated
Fire
EMS,
which
I
know
is
near
and
dear
to
to
your
heart,
such
as
you
know,
reviewing
and
improving
the
medical,
First
Response
canceling,
inbound,
EMS
resources
when
not
clinically
required
a
staffing
spare
aim.
J
A
J
J
And
then,
as
we
talked
about
before,
is,
is
the
911
to
the
811
just
limit.
The
number
of
calls
that
we
have.
So
this
is
on
the
demand
management.
So
again
the
it's
as,
as
you
know,
there
is
no
Silver
Bullet.
Here
we
had
a
30
increase
over
you
know,
18
months
ago
in
terms
of
the
the
the
the
call
volume
but
by
you
know
all
of
these
changes
in
terms
of
demand
Management
in
terms
of
using
utilizing
our
resources
better.
J
You
know
separating
out
the
highest
Acuity
calls
and
making
sure
that
our
our
ambulances,
with
our
highest
rate,
canes
or
crew,
are
available
for
that.
You
know
an
advance
and
ift
ift
separating
that
out
and
then
adding
additional
resources
in
that
regard,
but
also
adding
more
ambulances
more
staff.
All
of
that
combined
is
starting
to
get
our
our
times
down
and
I'm
looking
forward
to
seeing
them
come
down
even
further.
H
Yeah
I
just
want
to
comment
on
your
improvements
and
the
Investments
that
you
have
made
on
the
dispatch
portion.
The
811
I
find
very
intriguing
and
I
look
forward
to
that
when
I
look
at
a
lot
of
the
principles
behind
that
I
believe
that
is
what
health
link
was
supposed
to
achieve,
but
quite
honestly,
did
not
achieve
so
I
think
your
version,
I
hope
will
be
expanded
to
Encompass
Health
Link.
H
Quite
honestly,
because
that's
a
system
that's
gone
on
for
quite
a
while
and
they
didn't
really
navigate
any
over
the
years,
regardless
of
who
is
in
government.
Any
improvements
to
that
system,
so
I
think
the
the
changes
that
you've
made
to
that
to
to
811
will
I
hope
we'll
carry
over
into
the
health
link
aspect
because
I
think
it's
a
fantastic
concept
and
it
was
where
things
were
meant
to
be.
So.
Thank
you
so
much
for
that.
H
L
Thank
you
Mr
chair,
and
thank
you
to
the
minister
I'm,
just
going
to
follow
up
on
a
few
more
questions
about
the
children's
medication
that
that
Delbert
is
bringing
in
so
the
minister
Matt,
you
know
mentioned
obviously
reselling
some
of
the
bottles
to
other
jurisdictions.
What
is
the
unit
price
that
the
government
developer
is
expecting
to
charge
to
other
jurisdictions
who
will
purchase
some
of
the
children's,
the
city
of
medicine
and
ibuprofen.
J
So
you
know
we
are,
we
haven't
got
any
deals
done
yet
so
we,
you
know,
we'll,
have
to
see
that.
But
you
know
our
what
we,
what
we
are
actually
will
be
offering
at
our
cost
and
see
because
I
don't
want
to
make
any
money
on
it.
For
the
albertans
us
on
our
intent,
our
intent
is
actually
get
the
supply
to
albertans
and
also
to
the
extent
that
other
Canadians
can
actually
benefit
from
that,
then
that
and
others
than
than
fantastic.
So
that
is
our
intent.
J
L
J
What
time
so
we
we
have
scheduled
the
so
250
in
each
lot.
The
lot
is
250
000,
so
250
thousand
has
just
arrived.
We
expect
the
the
the
remaining
shipments
for
the
over
the
next
I
think
it's
four
to
six
weeks
to
be
able
to
to
arrive,
and
then
you
know
we're
in
conversations
with
other
jurisdictions,
because
if
other
jurisdictions
want
to
purchase,
then
we're
not
going
to
fly
them
in
here
we're
going
to
fly
them
directly
there.
L
J
Know
all
the
details
we
actually
haven't
put
that
in
the
budget.
Yet
so
we
do.
You
know
we're
required
to
show
the
net
cost,
because
we
actually
know
what
the
net
cost
is
now,
but
sorry,
not
the
net
cost
the
actual
cost.
We
are
required
to
show
that,
because
we
don't
know
what
the
the
total
revenue
is
going
to
be.
L
Then
my
just
last
question.
As
we
do
know,
you
know,
the
medication
is
coming
well
with
a
Turkish
company
and
we
obviously
know
the
tragic
circumstance
of
what's
happened
in
turkey
and
Syria
and
the
thousands
of
lives
that
have
been
lost
and
I'm
just
wondering
if
any
future
shipments
will
be
affected
by
what's
happened
in
turkey
and
the
earthquake
there,
and
if
there
are
any,
you
know
mitigations
in
the
contracts
to
address
any
of
that,
does
you
expect
A
disruption
in
the
delivery
because
of
that.
J
So
no
we've
had
conversations
about
them
in
terms
of
the
the
disruption
that
there's
there's
no
disruption
to
the
to
the
supply.
You
know,
but
again
you
know
if
you
know,
once
we've
we've
satisfied
the
needs
our
needs
under
the
contract
should
they
say
look
at.
We
need
to
keep
this
this
here
or
addition.
Then
we're
happy
to
enter
into
conversations
with
that.
K
Thank
you,
Mr
chair
through
you
to
the
minister,
looking
at
a
key
objective:
1.2
attracting
recruiting
and
retaining
Healthcare
Professionals
in
order
to
build
Health,
System
capacity
and
sustainability
got
about
six
minutes
excellent.
So
from
conversations
I've
been
having
with
a
number
of
folks,
both
folks
looking
to
access
care
and
folks
who
are
providing
it,
it's
seems
there
are
some
building
issues
when
it
comes
to
oncology
and
cancer
treatment.
K
So
a
few
times
recently,
I
think
in
the
house,
with
the
media,
we've
highlighted
some
of
the
growing
wait
times
for
albertans
to
see
an
oncologist.
The
Alberta
wait
times
reporting
page
shows
over
the
last
three
months,
wait
times
from
referral
to
seeing
an
oncologist
arranging
in
the
South
Zone
from
8
to
13
weeks,
Calgary,
four
to
ten
weeks,
Edmonton
three
to
ten
weeks
in
the
north
two
to
ten
weeks,
with
the
national
recommendation
being
for
a
maximum
of
10
working
days.
K
So
my
understanding
is
there's
currently
about
16
recruitments,
ongoing
for
medical
and
radiation
oncologists
across
the
province,
and
we
are
facing
some
challenges,
as
doctors
are
leaving
and
we're
struggling
to
recruit
replacements.
The
remaining
oncologists
from
my
understanding
are
tired
and
demoralized,
but
working
as
hard
as
they
can
I
also
understand.
Bc
has
recently
announced
some
new
funding
to
address
their
wait
times.
I'm
hearing
that
some
of
the
incentives
they
are
introducing
are
drawing
oncologists
away
from
Alberta
so
to
the
minister
through
the
chair.
What
steps
I
guess
are?
K
J
Yeah,
so
so,
specifically
for
oncologists,
like
that
exact
line,
there's
nothing
specific
for
that
exact
line
item.
There
is
additional
funding
for
Recruitment
and
Retention
of
of
doctors.
Generally,
you
know
if
you,
you
take
a
look
at
the
the
AMA
deal.
You
know
additional
funding
in
in
that
agreement.
We
also
have
you
know,
you
know
over
120
million
dollars
as
part
of
the
the
broader
retention
and
recruitment
of
of
funding,
for
of
funding,
for
doctors
to
be
able
to
attract
and
and
retain.
J
I
also
know
that
the
the
sorry
that
was
a
158
million
dollars
to
support
the
initiatives
for
retention
and
and
retention,
which
is
not
you,
know,
included,
but
not
limited
to
the
90
million
to
strengthen
programs
for
attract
and
retain
rural
Physicians
and
29
million
as
part
of
the
the
ama
ama
deal
and
I.
Also,
you
know
you
know
understand
that
you
know
AHS
is,
is
heavily
involved
in
the
recruitment
of
international
doctors.
J
J
You
know
so
that
you
know,
as
this
is
part
of
the
work
we're
actually
doing
with
the
colleges
right
to
reduce
the
amount
of
time
it
actually
takes
to
get
the
the
the
credentials.
So
we
fully
appreciate
that
there
is
a
shortage
of
doctors
generally
and
and
protect
in
particular
Specialties.
We
talked
earlier
this
morning
about
anesthesiologists,
that's
one.
J
You
know
oncologist.
You
can
see
that
we're
we're
we're
posting
and
and
family
docs.
We
still
have
a
net
increase
overall
in
doctors
in
the
province,
but
the
reality
is
is
that
we
still
need
more
to
be
able
to
provide
this
provide,
provide
the
service,
and
so
part
of
our
health
care
plan
is
actually
to
to
do
that
and
actually,
if
I
could
just
provide
in
and
2022,
we
had
716
Physicians
that
started
practice
in
Alberta
which
and
that
can
and
contribute
to
a
net
gain.
J
K
So
I
do
have
some
more
questions,
I
guess
along
the
question
of
cancer
group,
but
given
we
have
about
two
minutes,
I
was
just
wondering
Minister.
If
you
might
happen
to
have
any
of
the
information
we'd
asked
about
earlier.
I
know:
you've
been
working
with
your
staff.
If
you
have
any
updates
you'd
like
to
provide
yeah.
J
Well,
thank
you
for
asking
that
question.
So
the
number
of
questions
I'll
try
to
get
through
this
as
quickly
as
possible.
You
asked
in
terms
of
the
Alberta
surgical
initiative
and
funding,
for
you
know
rapid
access
clinics,
so
I
just
wanted
to
say
you
know
the
total
of
of
you
know
for
what
I
would
call
the
the
whole
fast
approach.
J
So
that
includes
rapid
access,
clinics,
prehabilitation
and
other
elements
is
42.85
million
dollars
of
that
rapid
access
clinics
is
27
million
dollars
in
budget
2324,
and
then
you
know
four
million
for
prehabilitation.
You
also
have
five
million
for
oh
The
Institute
for
healthcare,
optimization
and
then
6.85
for
electronic
referral
system.
So
that's
all
combined
to
be
able
to
drive
that
you
also
asked
on
the
127
Allied
staff
that
is
going
to
support
emergency
departments
for
staff
and
support
in
budget
is
20
million
dollars.
J
J
D
The
number
of
registered
physicians
in
Alberta
and
I
see
it's
trending
up,
which
I
think
is
good,
but
one
of
the
things
I
hear
quite
often
is
we
have
enough
doctors
they're,
just
not
where
we
need
them
and
I,
don't
know
how.
How
true
that
is.
I
certainly
know
that
in
my
community
of
Grand
Prairie,
there's
not
enough
and
I
know
that
you
know
that
as
well.
D
So
I'm
just
wondering
if
the
metric,
if
there's
been
consideration
to
change
the
metric,
for
example,
the
sheer
number
of
physicians
may
not
represent
the
full-time
equivalents
or
it
may
not
represent
their
panel
size
or
their
geographic
location.
Is
there
any
work
being
done
to
have
that
metric
represent
what
the
goal
really
is?.
J
So
you
know
we
put
in
that
one
metric
in
terms
of
the
the
number
of
registered
Physicians,
which
gives
you
a
general
trend
line
that
it
is
going
up,
which
is
helpful,
but
I
fully
appreciate
you
know
it's.
You
know
we
talked
about
anesthesiologists
and
an
oncologist
like
some
specialist.
You
know
we
don't
have
enough
and
then
also
we
don't
have
the
right
distribution
within
the
province.
J
So
so,
for
example,
we
have
a
significant
you
know
much
higher
shortage
in
particular
areas
like
you
know,
Grand
Prairie
and
you
know
other
areas
of
the
province,
especially
in
rural,
like
outside
the
big
major
cities,
even
for
for
for
family
doctors.
So
you
know
this
is
this
is
intended
to
be
a
general
assessment
of
you
know?
Are
we
winning
or
are
we
losing
on
the
but
I
fully
I
I
appreciate
your
comments
that
this
is
you
know
this.
Will
this
one
metric
will
not
solve
all
our
problems
like?
J
J
J
You
know
are,
we
are
all
of
our
rural
hospitals
fully
staffed
and
be
able
to
provide,
provide
that
you
know
RR
wait
times
for
seeing
a
specialist
within
within
recommended.
Wait
times
are
wait
times
for
getting
the
surgery
done
within
recommended,
wait
times
like
that.
That
is,
that
is
the
important
number
and
then
also
on
your
on
your
comments
and
you're.
Quite
right,
it's
just
a
head
count
is
helpful,
but
you
know
it's
like
how
much
are
the
are
individuals
working.
J
So
we
are
also
continuing
to
work
with
the
with
the
AMA,
and
this
is
conversation
are
happening
over
the
next
few
weeks.
I
said,
you
know,
how
do
we
come
at?
You
know
supporting
doctors
and
seeing
and
seeing
more
patients
and
again
as
we
move
forward
to
you
know
in
that
conversation
about
team-based
care,
or
so
you
leverage
not
only
doctors
but
nurse
practitioners
and
physician
assistants
to
be
able
to
provide
the
care.
J
Then
it's
about
providing
that
it's
about
that
care
is
actually
getting
done.
So
it's
I
fully
appreciate.
This
is
a
one
high
level
metric.
It
doesn't
measure
everything
that
we
need
to
measure,
but
it
gives
a
sense
of
where
we're
going.
That's
why
we
put
in
the
business
plan
and
to
put
in
40
metrics
just
didn't
make
a
lot
of
sense.
D
Thank
you
through
your
chair
to
the
minister.
Thank
you
for
that
answer.
I'm,
not
surprised
that
it
was
a
full
semester
and
you
already
answered
my
next
question,
which
was,
if
we're
tracking
the
number
of
doctors.
What
about
the
number
of
nurses
and
other
Allied
Health
Care,
so
appreciate
that
you
preempted
my
question:
I
did
want
to
I
guess
we
have
five
minutes,
so
it's
going
fast!
I
did
want
to
ask
a
little
bit
on
page
62
sort
of
in
the
same
vein
of
questioning
and
to
you
to
The
Minister's
final
comments.
D
They're
around
having
a
a
health
home.
The
last
line
of
the
first
paragraph
says
increasing
the
number
of
albertans
attached
to
a
health
home
that
provides
a
home
base
in
the
health
system
to
receive
primary
care
services
and
be
connect
connected
to
other
Health
and
Social
Services
and,
as
you
know,
through
the
chair,
Minister
I'm,
very
passionate
about
creating
a
health
home
in
Grand
Prairie.
That
I
think
is
going
to
become
a
reality
anytime,
but
I'm
just
wondering
how
many
of
those
are
happening
across
the
province.
Is
that
something
that
we're
moving
to
province-wide?
J
You
know
our
objective
is,
as
we
announced
as
part
of
our
health.
Human
resource
strategy
is
that
all
albertans
have
the
opportunity
to
be
attached
to
a
health
or
medical
home,
and
you
know
this
is
a
combination
of
ensuring
that
we
actually
have
the
enough
resources.
So
that's
you
know:
doctors,
nurse,
practitioners
and
other
Allied
health
professionals,
but
it's
also
in
terms
of
the
model
that
we
present
and
we
have
a
tremendous
base
to
start
with,
with
our
Primary
Care
Network.
J
You
know
that
supports
the
quite
frankly,
the
vast
majority
of
our
primary
care
physicians,
to
be
able
to
leverage
that,
because
that's
how
we
actually
get.
You
know
one
way
like
that
in
different
models
of
care
like
a
blended
capitation
model
that
we
can
get
a
team-based
approach
and
have
the
opportunity
for
everyone
to
be
attached
to
a
to
to
a
medical
home.
J
So
that's
that's
how
we
get
there
in
terms
of
Leverage
that
and
that's
why
I'm
so
excited
about
the
maps
work.
Quite
frankly,
right,
you
know
the
you
know:
how
do
we
support
pcns?
How
do
we
change
the
governance
and
the
funding
structure
for
that?
How
do
we
think
about
the
overall
governance
structure
for
all
of
primary
care
and
make
sure
that
attached
to
the
medical
home?
But
you
know
our
objective
and
and
is
to
actually
sure
everyone
has
that
opportunity
now
don't
get
me
wrong?
J
There
may
be
some
individuals,
you
know
who
don't
want
to
be
and
just
want
to
do
a
walk-in
clinic
like
between
ages,
20
and
30.
You
know
there's
some
people
who
may
not
need
that
as
much,
but
we
also
know
that,
for
you
know,
the
vast
majority
of
individuals
having
a
continuity
of
care
is
critically
important.
J
So
we
can
actually
identify
the
issues
like
the
health
issues
over
a
period
of
time
and
be
able
to
provide
the
care,
and,
quite
frankly,
it's
it's
about
prevention,
keeping
people
out
of
the
most
expensive
door
when
you're
the
sickest
and
that
that
actually,
you
know
focusing
on
primary
care,
because
other
countries
that
do
this
well
right
are
actually
reducing
their
acute
care
system,
for
example
like
Denmark,
not
increasing
it
because
they
don't
need
to.
So
it's
going
to
take
us
some
time
to
get
there.
J
So
again,
that's
why
I'm
excited
about
maps
to
to
give
us
that
blueprint,
that
of
how
we
actually
get
to
that
and
our
objective
that
everyone
can
be
attached
to
a
to
a
medical
home.
Not
only
have
the
resources
to
do
it,
but
we
have
the
right
model
to
make
that
happen
and
we're
heading
that
direction.
D
D
Key
objective,
2.4
and
I
only
ask
this,
because
this
comes
up
in
my
constituency
office
fairly
frequently,
it
says
ensure
processes
for
resolving
patient
concerns
are
effective,
streamlined
and
consistent
across
the
province
and
I
guess.
My
question
would
be
centered
through
the
chair
to
the
minister
around
when
a
patient
can't
get
a
surgery
in
a
timely
fashion
or
when
a
patient
is
unhappy
with
the
service
they're
getting
at
their
health
care
provider.
D
We
often
send
them
back
to
the
health
care
providers
to
resolve
it,
one
that's
impossible.
What
is
the
next
step
and
I
guess
when
I
read
this
objective,
if
I
look
at
the
case,
files
in
my
office
there's
definitely
an
element,
at
least
in
Grand
Prairie,
that
are
that
are
not
feeling
that
this
is
a
streamlined
process.
So
if
you
can
comment
on
that
in
the
1
minute
and
45
yeah.
J
You
know
the
these
other
complaint
processes,
so
we've,
just
you
know,
decided
to
streamline
the
process
is
actually
the
first
place
you
go
to.
Is
the
health
Advocate?
They
can
help
navigate
the
process,
so
they'll
still
need
to
do
individual
complaint
processes,
but
they
can,
you
know,
tell
the
story
once
push
that
through
to
where
that
needs
to
go,
and
then
what's
really
important
about
this
is
even
though
we
still
have
reporting
from
all
of
these
different
bodies
like
AHS
and
the
colleges
and
even
the
health,
the
health
Advocate.
J
It
comes
in
all
separately,
so
it's
harder
to
identify,
Trends
and
and
the
whole
purpose
of
having
a
complaint
system
system
is
that
if
somebody
has
a
problem
with
how
things
are
working,
we
need
to
I.
You
know
not
only
investigate
that
and
address
it
appropriately,
but
number
two.
We
need
to
identify
the
trends.
So
where
do
we
need
to
make
the
fixes
from
a
policy
or
a
process
standpoint
to
make
sure
that
that's
not
going
to
happen
again?
J
So
you
know
our
our
vision
is
to
expand
the
office
of
the
health
Advocate
allow
them
to.
Actually,
you
know,
you
know,
be
a
navigator
and
control
the
process,
and
then
eventually,
we
are
looking
at
potentially
passing
the
legislation
to
require
that
it
actually
goes
to
the
health
Advocate.
But
that's
down
the
road.
K
K
There
are
no
specific
strategies
at
the
moment
targeted
at
oncologists
and
oncology,
but
one
of
the
other
challenges
that
I'm
hearing
about
in
the
in
the
realm
of
oncological
treatment
is
regarding
medical,
physicists,
I'm
sure,
you're,
familiar
they're,
essential
part
of
the
process
in
planning
radiation
treatment,
calculating
correct
dosages,
determining
the
safest
path
to
Target
tumors
with
the
least
damage
to
surrounding
tissue.
I.
Imagine
you're
aware
of
the
challenges
we've
faced.
They
were
contracted
as
non-union
clinical
staff.
K
Thus
they
were
caught
in
the
fat
salary
freeze
that
was
in
place
from
2014
up
until
last
year.
So
as
part
of
that,
it
became
increasingly
unattractive
for
many
of
them
to
work
in
Alberta,
and
so
we
we
began
to
lose
many
debt
of
the
jurisdictions.
Now
the
pay
freeze
has
been
lifted,
but
what
I'm
hearing
is
that
we
are
continuing
to
lose
medical
physicists
recently,
having
lost
three
or
four
to
Victoria,
where
again,
BC
is
sort
of
making
an
investment
on
a
new
Cancer
Care
strategy
in
building
three
new
cancer
centers.
K
J
So
so
my
understanding
that
we're
we're
some
concerns
that
were
raised
I'm
reaching
back
in
my
memory.
This
is
the
number
of
months
months
ago
that
we
were
actually
to
be
able
to.
You
know
from
a
AHS
who's
who's
actually
dealing
with
these
individuals
were
able
to
address
some
some
of
the
pay
concerns,
so
that
actually
is
as
my
understanding
that
has
happened,
but
in
terms
of
where
we
actually
like
like
right
now.
K
Thank
you
Minister
through
the
chair
team,
Minister
I,
appreciate
that
my
my
understanding
is
at
this
point.
Even
for
the
Calgary
Cancer
Center,
we
are
having
to
contract
some
folks
in
the
U.S
to
come
to
commission
to
do
machinery
due
to
due
to
a
shortage.
So
it
is
something
I
think
we
need
to
be
looking
at
and
considering.
I
also
understand
that
we
are
facing
a
shortage
of
radiation.
K
So
is
this.
Is
this
something
that
we're
looking
to
address?
I
guess
is
part
of
the
the
amounts
that
are
being
again
I
know
you've.
The
indication
has
been
it's
sort
of
General,
but
is
there?
Is
this
something
you're
alive
too
aware
of?
Are
there
any
intentions
to
try
to
address
this
and
I
guess
the
recruitment?
The
training
piece
I
mean.
Are
these
conversations
you've
had
with
the
advanced
education
Minister,
perhaps
around
these
increases
in
tuition
for
medical
professions
that
we
are
desperately
in
need
of.
J
J
You
know
very
pleased
that
as
part
of
budget
22,
22
there's
a
31
million
dollar
increase
and
then
budget
23
was
an
additional
increase
and
I'll
have
to
by
having
the
numbers
in
front
of
me.
That's
different
budget,
Advanced
education,
but
additional
increase
of
focus
on
on
health
care
workers.
The
and
I
know
that
my
colleague
has
also
you
know,
looked
at
expanding.
J
You
know
the
expansion
of
the
period
of
time
from
six
months
to
12
months
on
on
repayment
of
student
loans
and
lowering
the
interest
on
student
loans.
So
you
know,
all
of
that
is,
has
taken
place,
the
in
terms
of
the
specific
to
this
specific
program
and
whether
or
not
the
we
have
sufficient
coming
out
of
there.
J
K
You,
minister,
so
maybe
I'll
pivot,
then
based
on
talking
about
about
training
and
specifically
about
I,
guess,
opportunities
for
for
Rural
education,
training
and
recruitment.
So
I
had
a
chance
to
meet
recently
with
the
rural
health
professionals
action
plan.
So
it's
very
good
folks,
I'm
sure
as
you're
aware
I'm
sure
you've
had
many
conversations
with
them
over
the
course
of
the
last
few
years,
some
excellent
perspectives
and
recommendations.
K
One
of
the
things
that
was
interesting
to
sort
of
learn
from
them
in
that
conversation
is
that
they
around
I
think
2018-19
had
their
mandate
expanded
from
Strictly,
focusing
on
supporting
and
recruiting
rural
Physicians
to
all
rural
health
care
workers.
So,
though,
they've
had
a
significant
expansion
of
their
mandate
and
certainly
I
think,
could
offer
some
significant
value
there.
They
have
not
seen
any
commensurate
increase
in
their
budget
to
sort
of
support.
K
That
kind
of
work
is
so
I
know
in
looking
at
it
this
year,
I
believe
we're
holding
about
steady
on
the
real
health
on
the
rhap
funding,
but
I
just
wanted
to
get
your
thoughts
on.
That
is
that
something
you
consider
providing
some
additional
support,
especially
given
the
challenges
we
know
we
are
facing
in
terms
of
rural
recruitment,
retention
and
training.
J
No
thanks
so
much
for
the
question,
and
actually
this
is
a
the
a
conversation
that
I've
had
the
opportunity
to
speak
with
our
parliamentary
secretary
for
rural
Health
MLA
Yao
on
looking
at
not
only
how
do
we
ensure
that
we
can
support
programs
like
rpap,
for
for
doctors
and
and
but
also
looking
at
nurses
and
other
Allied
health
professionals?
You
know
I,
there
has
been
some
significant
work.
That's
been
done
on
this
like
we
have
expanded,
you
know
funding
for
Rural
retention
and
recruitment
in
the
budget.
Overall.
J
This
is
for
for
a
doctor,
so
our
Pap
hasn't
gone
out,
but
but
additional
funding
has
gone
gone
in
terms
of
the
attraction
and
retention
in
that
regard,
you
know,
including
the
the
reside
program.
In
addition,
you
know
very
pleased
working
with
a
colleague
Advanced
education
of
training
outside
the
big
cities
right.
So
you
know
that
initiative,
so
part
of
our
investment
in
expanding
our
programs
at
UFC
and
U
of
A
is
actually
training
doctors
in
remote
areas,
we've
also
been
focusing
on
okay.
How
do
we,
actually?
J
You
know
in
training,
local,
let's
talk
about
nurses,
so
the
Wainwright
model
in
terms
of
U
of
C,
doing
the
the
four
years
of
training
for
nurses.
You
know
two
years
online
and
then
the
two
years.
Basically,
you
know
basically
online
but
still
in
the
hospitals
where
AHS,
so
it's
a
joint,
a
joint
program
with
AHS
at
the
U
of
C
and
the
town
of
Wainwright,
and
also
looking
to
expand
that
to
other
areas.
So
that's
part
of
the
budget
for
for
AHS
in
in
budget
23.
J
To
do
that
and
then
also
you
know,
have
you
know
talking
about
parliamentary
secretary
Yao?
Is
that
it's
again
it's
we
may
have
enough
nurses
or
doctors,
but
we
don't
have
enough
technicians
to
be
able
to
run
the
diagnosis
machines
you're
not
going
to
actually
be
able
to
provide
the
service.
So
what
is
the
next
level
that
we
need
to
actually
take
this
now?
I
I?
J
You
know
I'm
pleased
that
as
part
of
the
AHS
negotiations,
with
with
the
the
nurses
and
and
the
HS
AAA,
who
represent
the
health
Nations,
they
represent
many
of
these
diagnosis
technicians.
They
actually
have
part
of
that
agreement
is
a
and
I'm
going
to
get
the
name
wrong.
It's
it's,
but
it's
basically
a
rural
opportunity
fund
so
that
they
can
look
at.
J
How
do
we
use
that
fund
to
in
to
support
people
moving
into
rural
areas
and
staring
in
rural
areas,
so
that
fund
has
been
negotiated
with
both
the
nurses
and
then
with
the
hsaa
and
AHS
so
they're
working
through?
How
do
we
use
that
fund
to
be
able
to
do
that?
But
you
know
the
the
training
piece
is
important.
We
also
recognize
that
it's
not
just
about
again
training
and
the
conversations
are
ongoing,
but
we
haven't
put
it
in
the
budget
yet.
J
But
this
is
the
conversation
ongoing
and
you
know
the
the
Nate,
the
Saints
and
then
these
other
programs
that
we
can
actually
go
to
rural
colleges
for
the
diagnosis
because
again,
train
local
right,
you
know
and
I
know
they're,
not
kids,
they're,
young
adults,
I
have
one
so
you
know,
but
you
know
they
go
to
school
like
in
their
local
community,
get
trained
up
and
then
go
work
in
the
hospital
right.
So
we
are
exploring
different
opportunities
at
this
point
hasn't
made
that
into
the
budget.
Yet,
but
there's
next
year,
you're.
K
Laying
the
groundwork-
yes,
yes,
and
you
know
our
path
did-
did
tell
me
about
the
Wayne
White
Project
and
that
certainly
sounds
like
an
excellent
one.
I
understand
that
UFC
is
now
considering
an
expansion,
perhaps
up
towards
Drayton
Valley,
and
it
certainly
sounds
like
a
model
that'd
be
worth
pursuing
and
I
certainly
took
their
advice
that
we
seek
more
collaboration
with
PSIs
to
ours.
So
thank
you,
Minister.
Thank
you.
H
H
Chair
Minister
I
just
have
one
final
question
on
EMS
and
you
touched
on
it
earlier
I
believe
it's
both
the
new
the
health,
the
workforce
strategy
that
was
mentioned
on
page
78
of
the
fiscal
plan,
just
wondering
how
is
the
Ministry
of
Health,
focusing
on
attracting
routine
more
paramedics
in
the
province
and
I
pose
this
question
to
you,
because
you
have
a
very
good,
diverse
background
this
year.
Your
Forte
is
human
resources.
You've
worked
with
a
a
company
like
CP
Rail,
and
you
bring
just
a
plethora
of
knowledge
on
the
subject.
H
Certainly
one
of
the
things
we
identified
in
the
APAC
meetings
in
the
committee
was
that,
for
example,
AHS
doesn't
do
exit
interviews
with
people
and
I'm
wondering
if,
if,
if
they
have
identified
any
strategies
to
try
to
identify
the
deficits
that
cause
people
to
leave
the
industry
as
well
as
how
we
can
utilize
that
information
to
to
retain
these
people,
I
myself
was
able
to
survive
for
a
substantially
long
time,
emergency
services,
but
I,
admittedly,
I,
was
under
a
different
model.
The
integrated
model,
which
you
know
we
can't
brag
about
that
here.
J
Well,
thanks
so
much
for
the
question
and
and
and
and
again
I
just
want
to.
Thank
you
for
your
work
on
the
Apec
committee,
because
it's
it's.
You
know
when
we
originally
established
that
we
recognized
that
it
was
not
just
about
getting
more
workers,
but
it's
actually.
How
do
we
support
workers
because,
quite
frankly,
you
know
I
had
heard
stories
that
the
you
know,
whereas
you
know
the
average
career
of
a
of
a
paramedic.
J
You
know
you
know
decades
ago
was
you
know
15
to
20
years,
where
now
it's
less
than
10.
and
that's
a
problem
right.
It's
a
problem
in
terms
of
you
know,
and
we
heard
issues
about
work-life
balance.
We
also
heard
issues
of
you
know
frustrations
with
people
you
know
being
stuck
in
in
in
hospital
and
not
being
able
to
get
up
back
out
on
the
street.
J
J
I
was
gonna,
take
more
people
right
to
be
able
to
do
that,
but
we
know
we
need
to
do
that,
so
they
give
certainty
to
individuals
about
their
about
their
work
hours
when
they're
on
duty
and
when
they're
off
duty
and
actually
addresses
the
the
the
safety
issues
giving
the
increasing
call.
So
that's
that's
one
thing.
The
other
thing
that
you
know,
which
is
a
that
we
need
to
address-
and
this
came
out
in
Apec
is-
is-
is
just
more
staff.
J
One
of
the
challenges
is
that
when
you,
you
need
to
fill
X
number
of
staff
to
be
able
to
do
the
work,
but
you
don't
have
them
there,
and
then
that
means
there's
more
workload
on
the
individuals
who
are
left
there
and
overtime
and
or
they're
not
getting
off
in
time.
Then
that
actually
or
can't
take
vacation
that
all
impacts
the
the
work-life
balance.
J
So
it's
you
know,
part
of
that
challenge
is
getting
just
simply
getting
more
staff
to
be
able
to
do
that,
and
then
you
know
more
full-time
staff,
so
there's
greater
certainty,
Associated
with
the
job
and
then
and
then
listening
to
listening
to
employees.
You
know
very
you
know
pleased
that
Apec,
as
you
were
part
of
and
and
our
colleague
part
of
the
Metro
secretary
RJ
siegertson
hit.
You
know
his
work
in
terms
of
of
of
going
out
talking
to
paramedics
and
doing
all
the
surveys.
J
It
sort
of
you
know
people
that
they
want
to
be
heard,
and
maybe
you
know
more
empowerment,
so
pushing
down
decision
making
be
able
to
do
that.
But
this
is
you
know
again
this
there's
not
a
short-term
fix.
This
has
been
a
challenge
for,
for
some
time
and
and
coming
through
covid
and
with
the
shortage
in
the
workplace
is
actually
made
it
worse.
But
as
we
get
the
changes
in
place
to
you
know,
get
more
more
staff.
So
there's
greater
certainty.
You
got
more.
J
People
are
actually
carrying
the
load
that
we
continue
to
to
listen
to
the
staff
and
give
them
more
Power
in
terms
of
their
their
their
overall
job,
as
you
get
them
out
of
the
hospital.
So
they're
doing
you
know
what
they
want
to
do.
Then
we'll
actually
see
improvements.
You
know
in
this
and
then
and
then
part
of
it
too
is
getting
the
you
know,
and
I've
heard
this
loud
and
clear
from
paramedics.
J
I
know
you
did
as
well
is
that
paramedics
want
to
be
quick
to
respond
to
the
calls
these
are
they're,
fellow
albertans.
This
is
why
they
signed
up
so
as
those
times
come
down,
that'll
improve
the
the
quality
of
life
so
and
then
lastly,
I'll
just
comment
on
because
I
know
you've
raised
this
as
well
as
in
regards
to,
and
it
came
out
in
Apec
is
you
know,
ongoing
mental
health
supports
you
know,
so
you
know
ensuring
that
employees
have
access
to.
This
is
It's
a
challenging
job.
J
You
know
the
you
know
the
trauma
that
they
see
on
a
regular
basis
of
paramedics
and
then
supports
the
need
to
be
able
to
to
to
address
that.
So
we
need
to
have
those
supports
in
place
and
again
I'm.
Looking
forward
to
you
know,
as
our
colleague
Works,
through
the
Apec
recommendations
and
gets.
You
know
which
this
is
2023
is
funding
that
we
talked
about
that
90
million
dollars
to
be
able
to
provide
more
supports
to
to
paramedics
so
that
we
actually
you
know,
we
have
people,
not
re.
J
H
Thank
you,
so
much
I
really
greatly
appreciate
that
and
all
your
answers
on
EMS
and
really
I
think
paramedics
everywhere
are
really
encouraged
by
a
lot
of
things
that
your
ministry
is
doing,
that
you've
LED
and
thank
you
for
that.
I'm
going
to
change
gears
a
little
bit
and
go
to
indigenous
health,
okay,
which
is
quite
relevant
in
my
community.
In
my
region,
up
in
Fort
ship
one
one
of
the
most
isolated
communities
in
the
province.
H
You
either
have
to
drive
an
ice
Road
in
the
winter
to
get
there
or
fly
or
take
a
boat
in
the
summer.
That
Community
is
under
the
auspice
of
of
the
federal
government
and
through
uni
health,
and
you
know
they
they
provide
an
adequate
service.
But
truly
they
haven't
been
responding
to
the
needs
and
I
know
my
community
up
in
Fort
ship
one
have
been
very
encouraged
by
meetings
with
your
ministry
on
some
of
the
things
that
you'll
be
doing.
H
That's
been
adequate
to
address
a
lot
of
needs
and
again
I
refer
to
a
meeting
that
you
had
with
my
first
Nations
up
at
Fort
ship.
One
and
again
they
came
back
to
me
and
they're
very
encouraged
by
some
of
the
things
that
you
had
to
say.
I'm
wondering
if
you
can
perhaps
explain
to
us
in
Greater
detail
some
of
the
things
that
your
ministry
is
planning
on
with
First
Nations.
No.
J
Thanks
so
much
for
the
question-
and
we
spoke
earlier
this
morning-
but
you
know
when
you
take
a
look
at
the
health
outcomes
for
indigenous
peoples
in
Alberta
versus
the
average
Alberta,
there's
something
unacceptable
now
this
is
a
combination
of
you
know:
access
to
care,
particularly
in
rural
remote,
but
it's
also
wanting
to
access
care.
You
know,
we've
we've
heard
concerns
about
discrimination,
and
you
know
people
not
wanting
to
access
not
wanting
to
access
care
and-
and
we
quite
frankly
we
need
to
address
that.
J
So
you
know,
we've
already
been
taking
action
in
some
regards
on
this.
You
know
talked
earlier
about
the
you
know
how
pleased
I
I
was
with
as
part
of
the
Alberta
surgical
initiative.
The
Enon
Creed
Nation,
winning
the
contract
just
outside
of
in
the
Edmonton
region,
provide
a
chartered
surgical
facilities
to
do
Orthopedic
surgeries
and
use
that
as
a
Cornerstone
of
their
health
campus
Hub-
and
this
is
this-
is
something
you
know
that
to
provide
culturally
appropriate
care
for
for
indigenous
people.
J
J
We
have
also
reached
Arps
so
different
funding
models,
because
we
recognize
that
for
for
many
indigenous
peoples,
there's
High
degrees
of
complexity
and
so
a
fee
for
service
model
doesn't
necessarily
so
you
know,
our
department
has
reached
a
number
of
Arps
with
physicians
in
Alberta
to
provide
approved
care
and
better
care
to
indigenous
peoples,
and-
and
the
last
thing
I
want
to
talk
about
is
just
is
with
24
seconds
is
Maps.
You
know
we
knew
this
was
a
significant
issue.
J
We
appointed
Ace,
you
know
an
indigenous
panel
led
by
Tyler
white,
the
CEO
of
sexika
Health
Foundation.
To
identify
you
know
not
only
quick
hits
but
longer
term
actions
that
we
can
take.
And
now
we
are,
you
know,
funding
as
part
of
the
budget
pieces
of
that
and
I
look
forward
to
talking
about
that.
Okay,.
K
Thank
you
Mr
chair,
so
many
things
to
choose
from
through
to
the
ministry.
Let's
talk
about
hospitals,
so
the
EHS
report
dated
January
2023
inpatient
bet
deficit
projections
stated
that
Edmonton
had
a
deficit
of
hundreds
of
hospital
beds
that
number
expected
to
bloom
to
roughly
1500
in
the
next
few
years.
States
at
the
Edmonton
Zone
has
been
short,
roughly
500
beds
since
2016
on
track
to
be
short
as
many
as
3
000
by
2036.
K
four
set
of
numbers
from
AHS
pigs
at
number
well,
pigs
at
number
at
about
1828
incoming
years,
even
with
the
500
new
beds
that
were
part
of
our
original
plan
for
the
South
Edmonton
hospital.
But
the
recent
documents
that
have
come
out
that
sort
of
that
we've
seen
show
that
your
government's
current
plans
for
the
hospital
cut
its
capacity
to
about
400
bits
so
to
the
minister
through
the
chair.
J
So
just
do
just
to
confirm
so
the
the
current
plan
in
South
Edmonton
is
actually
is
still
maintaining
the
the
original
amount.
It's
436
beds,
plus
60
shells,
because
the
we
you
know
recognizing
there
there
is
a
need
for
additional
capacity,
which
you
know
we
will
be
able
to
meet
that
need
as
part
of
the
the
South
Edmonton
project.
J
J
I
also
just
want
to
make
one
one
other
one.
Other
comment
is
that
you
know
over
time.
We
are
also
looking
to
you
know,
change
the
models
of
care
right,
so
the
you
know
when
we
start
thinking
about
you
know
and
all
the
work
that
we're
doing
right
now
in
on
our
whole
emergency
departments
and
inpatient
right.
How
do
we
flow
people
through
through
faster
and
then
alternate
levels
of
care
which
may
not
be
in
a
hospital
bed
but
maybe
out
in
the
in
the
in
the
community
or
home
care
right?
J
So
this
is
there's
ongoing
work
associated
with
this
and
then
on
the
front
end
as
well
is
how
do
we
keep
people
out
of
hospital?
Because
that's
actually
our
objective,
like
other
countries
that
are
doing
this
well,
actually
spend
more
than
we
do
as
a
percentage
on
Primary
Care
than
they
do
on
acute
care
and
they
actually
spend
have
better
health
outcomes
and
actually
spend
overall,
similar
or
less
money
than
we
do
per
population
so
directly.
J
J
Just
one
more
comment
on
this
as
well.
You
know
the
you
know.
We
also
have,
in
our
Capital
plan,
doing
a
planning
dollars
for
a
stullery,
a
new
Standalone,
installer
hospital,
and
so
you
know
we
get
to
get
the
planning
dollars
in
there.
My
understanding
is
that
you
know
where
it's
going
to
take
some
time
like
this
year.
We'll
actually
get
the
The
Next
Step
was
the
budget.
Then
you
do
the
functional
assessment
on
the
budget.
J
K
J
J
And
then
the
expectation
when
we
look
at
the
the
team-based
care
model
is
that
it
actually
will
will
save
money
on
because
because
the
outcomes,
the
health
outcomes
on
t-based
by
our
battle
are
better,
generally
speaking
than
a
fee-for-service
model,
and
that
means
less
Hospital
time
right.
So
the
point
I'm
trying
to
make
here
is
that
we
may
not
need
additional
funding
to
go
to
a
team-based
model.
J
K
So
through
you
Mr
chair
to
the
minister,
what
what
I
guess?
What
are
you
building
into
that
in
terms
of
you
know,
I,
guess,
parameters
and
the
expected
outcomes
to
Monitor
and
track
that
that
and
ensure
that
we
are
getting
those
results,
because
we
do
know
in
the
past
there
have
been
increases
in
funding
for
pcns.
That
did
not
necessarily
yield
the
kind
of
results
we
hoped
to
see
now.
Pcns
again
have
provide
excellent
care
and
do
excellent
work,
but
we
haven't
always
got
to
where
we
wanted
to
go.
J
So
that's
that
that
is
one
piece
and
we've
asked
for
the
recommendations
from
Matt
to
be
able
to
do
that.
The
second
piece
this
is,
you
know:
I
had
the
conversation
earlier
about.
You
know
in
one
of
the
mandates
that
I
have
is
looking
at
hqca.
So
how
do
we
Leverage
The
hqca,
which
is
you
know
yes
pcns
and
have
a
governance
structure
and
manage
themselves,
but
also
have
hqca
over
top
of
that
to
say?
J
You
know
12
or
13..
You
look
at
the
the
Commonwealth
fund
that
does
ongoing
study
on
this
on.
You
know,
you
know
we
do
better
than
the
US,
which
is
typically
worse
than
us,
13
or
14.,
but
there's
a
dozen
other
countries
to
do
better
than
than
both
of
us
like,
like
Denmark,
like
a
number
of
European
countries
like
a
number
of
Nordic
countries.
J
J
K
I
appreciate
that
Minister
and
certainly
recognize
I
think
the
value
HBC
I
would
note
that
perhaps
you
might
want
to
consider
them
restoring
some
of
the
Independence
that
the
hqcaa
once
had.
Of
course,
your
government
passed
legislation
early
on
which
took
the
reporting
of
the
hqca
away
from
them,
reporting
to
the
house
to
reporting
directly
to
the
minister
and
certainly
saw
some
movement
there.
That
I
would
say,
took
away
some
transparency
and
ability
for
the
hqca
to
act
in
his
independent
way.
So,
if
you
are
committed,
that
would
be
one
way
to
do
it.
Thank.
I
I
J
J
They
you
know
working
in
the
field,
can
actually
deal
with
that.
So
the
cpsa
is
working
with
the
AHS
to
try
to
stream
within
the
hospitals.
You
know
a
clinical
physician
or
sorry,
a
clinical
assistant
to
be
able
to
allow
them
to
continue
to
maintain
their
skill
sets
under
the
the
auspices
of
a
of
a
medical
doctor
here,
while
they're
working
towards
getting
an
IMG
residency
spot
and
then
the
last
thing
I
think
is
a
training
piece
right.
So
you
know
very
pleased
as
part
of
budget
23.
J
Do
the
residency
in
in
rural
areas.
So
you
know,
all
of
this
is
focused
on
addressing
the
the
shortage
issue
and
and
I
appreciate.
You
know,
there's
there's
short
medium
in
the
long
term.
You
know
obviously
leveraging
International
grads
is
is,
you
know,
will
actually
be
faster
than
training
our
own,
but
we
need
to
do
all
of
this.
You
know
in
an
ideal
world
would
we
have
started
training
our
own
sooner?
J
Yes,
but
you
know,
when
you
haven't
done
it
yet,
what's
the
best
time
to
start
well,
it's
right
now,
so
so
we're
doing
that
and
then
all
of
this
will
enable
us
to
be
able
to.
You
know,
have
this
the
the
family,
physicians
in
the
rural
areas
and
be
able
to
provide
the
the
services
that
we
need,
but
but
again
as
as
you
as
we
talked
earlier,
it's
not
just
about
the
doctors.
This
is
about
nurses
and
other
Allied
Health
Professions,
and
we're
doing
work
on
that
front.
J
Also
with
the
College
of
nurses
and
I.
Don't
think
I
spoke
to
this
earlier
today,
but
the
you
know,
both
the
Association
for
the
college,
for
LPNs
and
for
nurses
are
working
together
to
establish
a
triple
track
program,
and
what
that
is.
Is
that
as
a
single
application
with
a
single
assessment
so
that
you're
either
you
know
assessed
as
a.
A
J
That's
separate
issue
to
be
able
to
start
addressing
this
issue,
but
the
the
nurses
are
assessed.
You
know
often
they
will
be
assessed
as
a
as
an
LPN,
but
with
a
bridging
program,
we've
expanded
the
seats
in
the
bridging
program.
You
know
at,
for
example,
Mount,
rural
University,
but
also
other
colleges
across
the
across
the
province
than
within
nine
to
12
months.
They
can
be
qualified
as
a
as
a
registered
nurse
and
be
able
to
fill
that
Gap.
J
So
again,
there
are,
we
know,
there's
shortages,
that
you
indicated
it's
not
just
here
in
in
Alberta,
it's
across
the
country.
Actually,
in
many
of
the
first
world,
many
nations
in
the
First
World,
but
we
have
multiple
approaches:
it's
not
going
to
be
one
single
solution
to
solve
them,
but
you
know
we're
working
on
the
fronts
with
the
colleges
with
our
our
post-secondary
institutions.
J
You
know
different
approaches
to
actually
doing
the
training
in
in
rural
areas,
so
you
know,
train
local,
stay
local
and
then
you
know
also
in
terms
of
from
our
immigration.
You
know
a
number
of
our
like
the
federal
government
is
working
on
a
that
has
announced
a
a
health
care
worker
stream.
I
know
that
you
know
you
know
we
have
our
rural
renewal,
immigration
stream
and
healthcare
workers
are
identified
as
a
as
a
key
component
of
that.
J
So
you
know
attract
through
immigration,
so
we
speed
up
the
process,
so
people
can
come
to
rural
areas
and
then
stay
there
on
then
there's
a
return
to
Service
or
requirement
that
they
actually
stay
in
the
rural
areas
and
then
you
know
hopefully
settle
down,
and
one
last
comment,
because
I
I
think
it's
important
important.
That
I
share
this,
because
this
came
out
of
the
conversation
that
we
had
when
we
were.
We
were
in
your
neck
of
the
woods.
J
Is
that
what
a
tremendous
job
our
municipalities
are
doing
in
terms
of
working
with
the
provincial
government
about
attracting
and
retention
retaining
healthcare
workers
welcoming
newcomers,
you
know
providing
assistance
in
regards
to
getting
them
started.
You
know
sometimes
that's
housing,
but
sometimes
it's.
You
know
other
other
aspects
of
that
to
be
able
to
to
want
to
work,
stay,
live
and
stay
in
in
in
rural
Alberta,
so
that
we
can
actually,
you
know,
have
the
the
staff
that
we
need
to
deliver
the
health
care
services.
I
I
Assuming
that
there's
a
lot
of
work
being
done
by
the
provinces,
with
the
federal
government
to
try
to
welcome
more
of
those
Physicians
home
since
we
do
need
them
so
desperately
and
and
spaces
are
so
limited
across
the
country
for
for
training
those
doctors
in
our
in
our
schools
and
and
on
that
note,
I
want
to
thank
you
for
an
announcement
recently
about
providing
more
funding
in
in
a
couple
of
rural
communities.
For
for
training
of
Physicians
moving
forward.
E
C
You
Minister
I,
really
appreciate
the
dialogue
this
afternoon
and
I
appreciate
the
chance
to
talk
about
a
few
things.
The
first
one
I
just
want
to
talk
about,
and
really
it's
just
a
discussion
more
than
anything
I
was
just
concerned
to
see
a
study
released
out
of
the
University
of
Calgary
this
week
about
a
physician
attitude
toward
attitudes
toward
indigenous
patients.
Dr
Pam
roach
put
out
a
study
in
the
the
quick,
simple
outcome
of
the
study.
C
Information
was
sent
to
every
physician
in
the
province
and
about
375
of
them
returned
the
information
and
the
the
outcome
of
the
study.
Essentially,
was
that
quote
what
we
did
find
was
that
levels
of
anti-indigenous
bias
within
Alberta's
Physicians
are
unacceptably
high
and
I
could
go
on,
but
I
guess
I'm
just
wondering
you
know
what
what
do
we
know
about
this
and
how
can
Alberta
Health
Services
help
to
move
things
along?
Are
there
some
programs
that
are
currently
in
existence
or
in
some
way
can
we
respond
to
this
yeah.
J
Well,
thanks
for
for
a
raise
that
this
is
an
issue
we
understand
this.
You
know
the
the
UFC
report
coming
out
on.
This
just
confirms
this,
so
you
know
this
is
work,
that's
being
done
with
I
know,
with
AHS
and
and
even
Alberta
Health.
You
know:
we've
drafted
a
an
action
plan
to
address
indigenous
racism,
Alberta's
Health
Care
System,
to
to
address
these
concerns,
and
we
also
heard
it
coming
from
Maps
right
and
the
indigenous
panel.
J
One
of
their
recommendations
is,
is
training
for
all
healthcare
workers
on
what
is
culturally
appropriate
care,
so
we've
accepted
you
know
all
of
the
the
recommendations
both
from
the
indigenous
panel
and
the
and
the
mat
and
the
the
maps
Alberta
panel.
In
principle.
We
are
actually
working
right
now
and
say:
okay,
how
do
we
actually
roll
this
out?
There
is
funding
in
the
budget,
for
this
is
going
to
take
some
time
right,
because
you
know
this
better
than
I
and
I.
J
Thank
you
for
this
work,
but
never
without
us
right.
We
need
to
take
action,
but
we
need
to
take
action
together
with
with
First
Nation.
So
as
we
develop
this
these,
these
plans
with
them,
because
you
know
quite
frankly
and
I
said
this
earlier.
The
the
health
outcomes
for
indigenous
people
in
Alberta
versus
the
average
Alberta
is
far
worse
and
unacceptable
period.
We
need
to
fix
that,
which
is
why
we
set
up
this
panel
in
the
first
place,
but
you're
right.
J
J
Was
very
pleased
when
and
I
think
I
mentioned
this
earlier-
that
Enoch
Nation
won
the
bid
for
the
chartered
surgical
facility
for
orthopotic
surgery,
Orthopedic
surgeries
in
in
Edmonton,
and
you
know,
that's
that's
forming
the
basis
for
their
Health
Hub
that
they'll
be
offering.
You
know
culture
culturally,
appropriate
care
in
there
and
it's,
but
it's
not
just
for
indigenous
people.
J
It's
it's
for
all
albertans,
but
but
also
they
can
provide
care
to
in
in
indigenous
on
the
on
the
nation
and
then
and
then
their
plan
is
to
actually
expand
the
care
there.
We've
also-
and
you
probably
know
this-
you
know
reached
agreements
with
a
number
of
of
First
Nations.
You
know,
including
the
the
Blackfoot
Confederate
Confederacy
in
terms
of
health
tables
and
how
we
work
together
and-
and
one
last
comment
on
this
is
which
which
I'm
excited
about
it.
It's
it's.
It's
also,
including
like
the
our
health
table
or
sorry.
J
Indigenous
Maps
table
includes
the
federal
government,
because
this
is
not
about
who
pays
for
what?
Let's
first
figure
out
on.
Let's
get
the
problem
solved.
How
do
we
actually
move
forward
and
then
we'll
worry
about
that
after
after
I
was
pleased
that
the
federal
government
announced
that
they're
going
to
do
some
funding.
J
J
We
got
the
interim
recommendations
that
came
forward
and
and
one
thing
that
I
was
excited
about
maps
and
you
know
we
had
Dr
Jenga
participate
in
the
you
know
in
the
International
Panel,
who
has
a
wealth
of
experience
from
New
Zealand.
So
how
do
we
learn
from
other
jurisdictions?
And
when
you
actually
look
at
the
their
ability
to
improve
the
health
outcomes
of
the
Maori,
you
know
there's
an
opportunity
there,
but
also-
and
you
know,
Mr
Finney
I
know
you
know
this
very
well.
J
That
sense,
for
these
are
for
diabetic
patients
that
actually,
since,
when
the
amount
of
pressure
that's
on
your
foot,
so
that
it
alerts
you
so
when
you
have
to
move
so
you
actually
don't
develop
sores
because,
as
you
know,
with
diabetics,
develop
sores,
and
then
that
leads
to
unable
to
be
healed
and
is
amputated,
and
this
is
running
out
of
time.
Okay,.
C
Excited
I'm
enjoying
the
information
and
I
appreciate
it.
I
also
just
want
to
know
about
the
maternal
health
program
that
was
started
in
2016
by
the
previous
government
that
1.3
million
dollars
I
went
to
a
musculaturation
little
Red
River
Cree,
to
help
with
maternal
health
I'm
just
wondering
if
that
program
continues
to
exist
and
whether
or
not
there's
any
thought
or
hope
of
growing
it
or
expanding
it
to
other
nations.
Besides
those
two.
C
That
particular
program
just
looking
at
here,
the
announcement
was
in
December
2016,
December
9th
just
so
you
can
can
follow
that
up
and
I
just
want
to
know.
If
that
the
program
I
want
to
know
all
about
it,
I
mean.
Has
it
been
successful?
Did
it
really
help
change
maternal
Health
in
in
the
these
two
indigenous
communities,
and
is
there
any
hope
if
it
is
successful
of
expanding
it?
So
perhaps,
if
you
can
do
a
little
dig
on
that
that
we
certainly.
J
Appreciate
it
look
into
that
also,
you
know
when
we
see
it'll
be
interesting
to
see
when
we
see
the
final
report
from
the
the
indigenous
panel
like
what
their
what
they're
recommending,
and
you
know
if,
if
it,
you
know,
if
they've
assess
that
program,
and
they
think
that
we
need
to
expand
this
because
some
of
their
their
interim
recommendations
we're
expanding
current
programs
that
are
being
successful,
which
we're
actually
looking
at.
How
do
we
Implement
right
now.
C
Thank
you.
One
other
thing
that
comes
up
fairly
frequently
my
special
and
I'm
traveling
in
the
north
is
the
fact
that
people
are
need
to
be
medievacked
into
Edmonton
on
a
regular
basis
when
a
a
a
a
child
is
in
crisis.
A
a
a
pregnant
woman
is
in
crisis,
I
guess
it
is,
and
then
a
child
is
being
born
and
they
have
to
go
into
the
NICU
here
in
Edmonton.
Typically,
there
is
a
rule
that
only
one
parent
is
allowed
to
fly
down
with
that
for
with.
C
J
Yeah
so
I'm
going
to
have
to
get
back
to
you
in
terms
of
that
I
really
don't
know
if
it
continues
to
exist,
but
but
it
but
again
you
know
the
you
know
I'm
looking
forward
to
you
know
like
what
are
the
like.
All
the
high
level
issues,
because
we've
asked
the
indigenous
panel
say:
okay,
what
are
the
issues
we
need
to
address
so
we
can
actually
work
on
them,
but
this
particular
rule
I'm,
not
I'm,
not
familiar
I'm,
not
familiar
with,
but
I
I
wouldn't
be
surprised.
J
J
C
So
you
know
trying
to
accommodate
that
is,
is
the
issue
of
you
know.
The
communities
certainly
appreciate
the
services
that
are
provided,
but
they,
as
most
Northern
Communities,
would
tell
you
that
their
their
extreme
barriers
for
a
lot
of
people
and
and
getting
full
support
of
them
is
you
know,
is,
is
the
The
Hope
and
the
desire.
Thank.
I
I
So
if
it's
okay,
I'd
like
to
just
touch
on
a
few
other
points,
around
physician
attraction,
retaining
recruitment
again
understanding
that
we
do
have
limited
tools
as
a
province
as
far
as
you
know,
basically
not
being
able
to
tell
Physicians
where
they
need
to
practice.
You
know,
and
quite
frankly,
we
need
physicians
in
Rural
and
remote
communities.
I
I
I
hope
that
no
one
would
argue
that
point
around
here.
I
know
they
won't
argue
that
point
in
my
communities.
So
with
that
said
specifically
on
attracting
and
retaining
physicians
in
rural
Alberta.
As
mentioned
on
page
79
of
the
plan,
the
budget
includes
a
12
million
dollar
increase
for
the
rural
remote
Northern
program.
J
You
know,
and
even
though
we
we
do
have
incentives
that
are
already
there.
The
reality
is
is
we
need
more
right
because
we're
not
getting
the
outcomes
that
that
that
require
so
so
this
these
these
dollars
are
targeted
at
improving
access
and
particularly
in
those
communities
facing
critical
physician
supply
issues
like
that.
So
that's
where
we're
targeting
that
and
Alberta
Health
right
now
is
working
with
the
AMA
to
develop
the
specific
parameter.
So
we
haven't
done
that
yet,
but
the
conversations
aren't
going.
J
I
may
toss
that
over
to
ADM
Smith
in
a
second.
Now
we
haven't
done
any
a
formal
evaluation
of
the
of
the
whole
program
at
this
point
in
time,
but
under
the
terms
of
the
new
AMA
agreement
there
we
are
going
to
work
together
to
say
well
how
do
we
actually
make
sure
that
we're
getting
the
right
value
for
the
for
not
only
the
right
value
for
the
money,
but
we
actually
have
structured
it
correctly.
J
It
is
an
incredibly
complex
program
based
on
you
know
how
far
you
are
away.
You
know
from
a
particular
location,
but
we
have
shortages
in
all
those
locations,
so
that
does
that
actually
make
sense.
We
also
also
recognize
that
you
know
when
there's
a
general
shortage
period.
Often
the
ones
are
impacted
the
month
or
the
the
the
most
remote.
J
Then
you
know
do
we
need
to
change
the
parameters,
but
then
you
know,
as
we
get
more
General
Supply,
can
we
actually
change
them
back?
So
you
know
this
is
a
work
in
progress,
but
you
know
maybe
I
can
ask
ADM
Smith
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
the
work.
This
is.
His
team
is
involved
directly
in
the
conversation
with.
M
The
AMA
on
this
yeah
and
I
think
Minister,
you
covered
it
pretty
well,
I
mean,
and
we
look
at
retention
and
recruitment.
I,
probably
categorize.
This
and
right
now
is
more
as
a
retention
program
and
a
recruitment
program,
even
though
it's
not
that
specific,
but
again
like
any
program,
we
want
to
reevaluate
it
and
we
need
to
tweak
to
parameters
to
make
it
more
effective
and
that's
actually
another
very
prescriptive
commitment.
M
I
The
thing
thank
you
for
that,
and-
and
you
know
in
my
own
in
my
own
role,
I
I've-
taken
to
talk
to
professionals
like
one-on-one
I'm,
assuming
there
are
ways
that
our
Healthcare
professionals
can
submit
their
own
feedback.
So
it's
not
just
simply
coming
from
the
organization.
I
know
that
you
know
whether
nurses,
Physicians
or
other
Health
Care,
Professionals
they've,
provided
a
whole
bunch
of
different
scenarios.
That
will
help
move
government
in
the
right
direction
and
get
better
outcomes.
I
And-
and
that's
one
thing
that
I
do
want
to
commend
our
Healthcare
Professionals
for-
is
that
they
they
want
to
see
us
see.
Our
Province
have
better
outcome,
see
patients
get
better
outcomes
and
and
they're
always
willing
to
be
engaged
with
us
and,
and
so,
and
you
know
just
thank
your
team
and
and
I
know
that
you
had
a
few
different
dialogues
when
you
were
in
my
communities
with
some
of
the
healthcare
professionals
and
I.
Thank
you
for
the
openness
to
to
hear
that
feedback.
I
But
in
in
BC
they've
chosen
to
basically
try
to
combat
an
issue
there
again
that
every
jurisdiction
is
having
with
more
money
and
I
am
just
curious.
You
know
at
this
point:
are
we
able
to
compete
with
the
other
provinces
that
are
just
choosing
to
throw
more
money
at
an
issue
that
is
first
world
issue?
It's
not
limited
to
one
or
two
provinces.
Even
are
we
able
to
compete
as
a
province
with
those
provinces
in
order
to
retain
our
own
Physicians
and
to
attract
new
Talent
yeah.
J
You
know
a
similar
time
period
that
we
did
last
fall
like
there
came
shortly
after
ours
and
their
agreement.
Just
for
rough
figures,
you
know
provides
an
incremental
increase
of
about
708
million,
approximately
13.2
percent
increase
over
the
total
funding.
For
a
physician,
our
agreement
is
roughly
a
an
investment
of
over
780
million
in
that
agreement,
so
it's
actually
higher
than
that.
But
what's
really
important
is
that
we're
starting
a
different
place
right.
You
know,
if
you
look
at
the
data
from
Kai
high
from
2020
to
2021..
J
You
know
we
had.
You
know
higher
on
average
gross
clinical
payments
in
Alberta
than
they
did
in
BC.
So
you
know
we
still
have
some
of
the
best
compensation
in
the
country
for
our
doctors
and
and
and
more
importantly
than
that,
we
we
have
a
a
good
working
relationship
in
the
AMA
agreement
and
we're
going
to.
We
have
a
commitment
to
continue
to
improve
our
models
of
of
of
compensation.
So
again,
I
spoke
earlier
this
morning
about.
J
You
know
we'll
be
meeting
over
the
next
couple
weeks
to
actually
talk
about.
How
do
we,
our
our
adps,
expand
our
our
aarps,
which
actually
makes
it
you
know
better
for
better
for
doctors
and
then
able
to
provide,
provide
additional
care.
So
we
we
continue
to
be
competitive,
but
we
also
know
you
know.
J
Part
of
that
kind
of
that
ability
to
be
competitive
is
is
not
just
having
a
fever
service
model,
but
also
offering
different
models,
because
we
also
heard
loud
and
clear
from
from
some
doctors
is
that
you
know
there
are
graduates
who
are
you
know,
leaving
Med
schools
who,
who
don't
want
to
set
up
a
business?
They
don't
want
to
run
a
fee
for
service
Clinic.
They
want
to
come
in,
provide
Health
Care
go
home
to
their
families.
There's
nothing
wrong
with
that
right.
It's
you
know.
J
We
all
want
to
do
that
in
terms
of
your
door
work
and
then
go
home
to
our
families
and
not
you
know,
you
know,
work
in
a
fee
for
service
model
that
and
just
one
after
another
and
then
and
then
necessarily
work
in
the
hospitals
that
evening,
because
I
want
to
do
that.
That's
okay,
but
what
we
need
to
do
is
create
Choice
and
the
one
thing
that
I'm
you
know
excited
about.
J
The
AMA
agreement
that
we
reached
is
a
commitment
to
work
on
providing
Choice
together
right
and
then
measuring
that,
because
we
also
you
know
as
I
indicated
earlier.
We
know
we're
not
going
to
get
100
right,
we're
going
to
try
something
we
may
have
to
tweak
that.
But
did
they
work
together
to
be
able
to
do
that?
And-
and
you
know
this
agreement
lays
the
foundation
of
it
and
then
also
the
other
thing
and
I
haven't
mentioned
this
before
what
this
agreement
does.
J
Is
that
you
know
it
focuses
on
what
I
would
call
internal
Equity
issues?
You
know,
there's
there's
a
recognition
that
you
know
they
have
a
spread
a
doctor.
You
know
a
spread
of
doctors
in
terms
of
family
physicians,
making
this
map
to
some
Specialists,
making
much
higher
amounts
and
there's
a
recognition
of
that
and
to
address
those
internal
equities.
J
As
part
of
our
agreement.
We
actually
focus
our
dollars
on
the
areas
where
we
we
had
the
biggest
challenges
like
family
physicians
like
psychiatrists
they
like
those
in
community
service
and
then
we
so
we
funneled
more
money
in
the
overall
agreement
to
them
to
be
able
to
continue
to
attract
and
retain.
J
So
you
know,
I
would
have
to
say
that
we
are
extremely
competitive,
we're
working
together
to
become
even
more
competitive,
different
models
and
different
choice
and
options
for
for
doctors,
and
we
have
a
commitment
like
as
part
of
this
agreement,
to
continue
to
work
on
that.
So
we
can
make
sure
we
have
the
doctor.
K
A
K
To
be
at
least
four
years
from
now,
I
think
I'll
just
take
the
last
minute
again
just
to
give
my
thanks
to
the
minister
and
to
the
staff
and
everyone
that
is
here
to
support
him
today.
Yeah
certainly
Minister.
Well,
we
have
had
our
share
of
disagreements,
I
think
and
probably
still
have
some
very
differing
perspectives
at
many
points.
K
I
do
certainly
have
respect
for
the
manner
in
which
you've
carried
out
your
work
and
the
service
that
you've
given
over
the
last
few
years
and
do
appreciate,
as
I
said,
some
of
the
more
collaborative
nature
that
you
have
brought
I
think.
Certainly
we
all
recognize
our
health
care.
System
remains
under
extreme
pressure,
I
would
say
still
in
a
state
of
crisis
and
certainly
health
care
workers,
I
think,
have
endured
a
lot
and
unfortunately,
I
will
be
honest,
I
think,
due
to
many
decisions
of
your
government,
there
has
been
a
significant
loss
of
trust.
K
So
I
certainly
hope
that,
as
we
come
up,
I
guess
to
these
to
the
coming
election
and
we
see
what
happens
on
the
other
side,
whoever
does
form
government
we'll
take
the
opportunity
to
rebuild
that
that
we
have
some
transparency
and
openness
and
communication
with
our
Frontline
healthcare
workers
in
an
ongoing
collaboration.
So
we
can
all
put
our
best
foot
forward
in
delivering
these
services
for
albertans.
So
thank
you.
E
E
On
the
committee
for
their
hard
work,
they're
good
questions
and
for
the
service
you've
given
to
albertans
today
with
that
said,
I
must
advise
the
committee
that
the
time
allotted
for
consideration
of
the
ministry's
estimates
has
concluded.
I
would
like
to
remind
committee
members
that
we
are
scheduled
to
meet
again
on
Monday
March,
the
13th
at
7
pm
to
consider
the
estimates
of
the
ministry
of
service,
Alberta
and
red
tape
production.
Thank
you.
Everyone.
This
meeting
is
adjourned.