►
From YouTube: Cassandra Kubernetes SIG meeting 2020-05-07
Description
This meeting we worked on the in-progress CEP-2 document. See the links here: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CASSANDRA/CEP-2+Kubernetes+Operator
A
When
I
say
record
of
zoom,
it
records
to
the
local
system,
which
is
nice,
I,
get
an
mp4
file
and
it's
awesome.
Alright,
everyone
thank
you
for
putting
up
with
the
shenanigans.
Unfortunately,
zoom
kind
of
won
this
one
Thank
You
zoom
for
not
failing
us,
we'll
keep
looking
at
jitsi,
but
jitsi
was
I've,
had
better
experiences
with
jitsi
than
I
just
had,
but
this
was
definitely
the
worst
one.
I've
ever
had
I
think
the
main.
A
A
What
what
I
it
just
kind
of
get
everyone
up
to
speed
and,
on
the
same
page,
what
what
I've
heard-
and
this
is
when
Ben
and
I
built
the
scaffolding
for
CEP
too?
That
was
really
just
like
we're
trying
to
gather
together
everyone's
thoughts
and
put
them
in
one
place.
The
the
intent
I
think
here
is.
We
really
need
to
be
clear
on
like
what
do
we
want
to
kubernetes
operator
to
do
like
from
a
goaling
standpoint?
What
would
be
you
know
from
a
level-1
level-2
level-3
perspective
from
the
operator
framework?
A
What
does
that
look
like
from
a
Cassander
point
of
view,
because
it
would
you
and
that's
the
kind
of
the
looseness
of
that
level,
1
2,
&,
3
terminology?
Is
it
really
focuses
on
you
know
just
like?
Well,
here's
these
really
loose
guidelines,
but
whatever
your
technology
is
bring
your
own
interpretation
of.
What's
that's
that's
the
exercise.
We
need
to
go
through
I've
already
seen
some
interesting
stuff
like
Jordan
brought
up
a
really
good
point.
Is
you
know
horizontal
scaling?
You
know
that.
That's
just
it's!
That's
like
not
level
5
in
our
world.
A
So
so
that
that
is
where
we're
sitting
right
now,
but
some
folks
have
been
asking
I've
seen
the
traffic
about
this
is
what
are
we
going
to
do
once
we
have
this
like
when
we
outline
everything
and
I
think
what
I've
heard
a
lot
of
people
talk
about
in
this
case
is
that
we
want
to
get
to
a
point
where
we
want
to
have.
We
want
to
be
clear
about
it,
but
didn't
be
ready
for
some
sort
of
the
donation
of
code.
A
A
Okay,
well
we're
where
we
are
right
now
is
we
have
this
Google
Doc
I
see
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
stuff
put
against
level
one,
hardly
anything
in
level
two
and
one
thing
in
level
three
and
then
there's
like
level
four
stuff
already
being
added
in
here,
which
is
kind
of
cool,
which
you
know
I,
think
that's
the
thing:
does
anybody
I
mean
I
noticed,
there's
a
lot
of
energy
being
put
into
it
as
we
speak.
Does
anybody
want
to
lead
a
discussion
on
level
one
to
level
one
requirements
right
now.
D
Hear
me
now:
yes,
I
think
my
computer's
audio
is
just
failing
over,
but
let
me
know
if
you
can't
hear
me
so
when
we
worked
on
this
I
would
say
it's
it's
mine,
I
totally
agree
with
the
operator
frameworks.
Leveling
thing
for
the
most
part
and
I
agree
that
yeah
some
things
with
Cassandra
are
like
this.
Leveling
is
set
up
for
maybe
maybe
an
app
like
WordPress
or
my
sequel,
or
you
know,
I'm
using
some
pretty
generic
really
widely
known
ones,
but
more
traditional
apps.
E
D
I'd
take
Cassandra
is
traditional,
but
in
a
bunch
of
different
ways,
right
like
it,
has
a
whole
Lady
of
clustering,
you've
built
into
the
app
so
how
much
kubernetes
do
you
need
to
count
on
like
less
so
than
something
like
WordPress,
where
the
uploads
need
to
be
like
a
shared
file
system?
But
then
it
just
counts
on
shared
nothing
for
the
my
sequel
there
and
can
I
deal
with
fancy.
My
sequels
or
just
it
just
needs
to
really.
You
know
vertically
scaled,
my
anyway,
where
I'm
going
with
this.
D
Is
it's
hard
to
just
take
some
of
these
decisions
and
say
like
oh
just
to
get
to
level
one?
What
do
we
need,
like
you,
make
a
lot
of
suboptimal
choices?
I'd
say
if
you,
if
your
goal
is
to
like
do
this
like
kind
of
startup
style
MVP
or
it's
like?
Oh,
we
just
want
to
get.
We
just
want
to
replace
our
helmet
art
with
an
operator.
It's
like
cool.
Let's
do
this
bam
bam.
It's
done.
D
You
have
some
operator,
but
you
haven't
really
you've
just
made
a
more
bespoke
helmet
reality
and
you'd
probably
start
making
a
lot
of
the
choices.
More
more
differently,
if
you
were
going
to
care
about
the
stuff
at
level.
Five
like
horizontal
skiing,
which,
like
I,
said,
isn't
that
bad
with
Kassandra
but
I'm,
just
like
figuring
out
like
the
choices
we
made,
which
since
I
cast
operators
all
open-source.
That's
like
easy
to
talk
about,
but
like
decide
how
we
decided
to
manage
seeds
and
the
like.
D
Even
the
lifecycle
of
the
pods,
where,
like
the
management,
API
comes
up
and
that's
really
what
the
lifecycle
of
the
pod
is
attached
to
the
node
is
is
also
that
but
like
you,
can
bring
up
the
pod
and
not
bring
up
Cassandra
and
there
might
be
legitimate
use
cases
for
that.
And
we
don't
do
that
very
much.
But
it
you
know
so.
There's
kind
of
like
different
levers
and
knobs
to
use
so
I
agree
with
the
leveling
thing.
But
it's
hard
to
just
sort
of
say
like
to
achieve
level
one.
A
All
right,
so
I
think
you've
defined
a
problem
pretty
well.
What
what
do
you
think
is
the
right
answer
and
I?
Think
oh,
and
this
is
why
I
think
of
the
level
leveling
is
because,
in
things
like
operator
hub,
this
is
how
this
is
how
its
communicated
to
someone
who's
running
kubernetes
like
this
is
what
this
operator
can
do
for
you.
A
D
I
think
this
was
what
was
interesting
was
like
before
I
think
getting
the
use
cases
from
the
Cassandra
opera
that
human
Cassandra
operators
and
saying
like.
So
what
are
the
things
you
need
to
do
when
a
developer
is
coming
to
you
and
needs
a
new
test
cluster
they
need.
They
just
need
an
empty
one
from
scratch.
Cool!
Oh,
do
they
need
to
restore
backup
into
it?
Okay,
let's,
let's
follow
that
away
in
our
notes.
What
else
do
they
do?
Oh
you
have
to
scale
it
up
for
them.
Sometimes,
okay,
let's
follow
that
away.
D
D
But
sort
of
not
the
be-all
end-all,
I'd
say
like
the
use
cases
of
what
you
what
the
human
operators
tend
to
do
with
Cassandra
like
like
the
idea
of
like
the
full
repair
right
or
like
oh
we're,
gonna
do
incremental
repair,
it's
like
what
it.
How
does
the
operator
get
involved
in
some
of
these
ideas?
Does
it
need
to.
A
I'm
looking
at
this
cast
characters
that
is
currently
on
zoom
and
everyone
in
here
has
a
hazard
hand
in
making
it
operator
and
is
already
converted
in
a
true
believer,
you're,
the
unique
individual
here
that
you
know
you're
you're
not
doing
this
and
I
think
you're.
Looking
for
like
do
I
want
to.
Can
you
help
us
out,
maybe
give
us
more
of
an
operator
perspective
like
first
of
all,
it
is
Bloomberg
running
kubernetes
like
are
you
you
a
cooper,
nadie
shop
or
you're,
not
doing
that
just
yet
now,.
F
We
run
kubernetes
extensively
for
our
stateless
services
mm-hmm
and
we've
even
gotten
the
insta
cluster
operator
running
internally
for
a
test
databases.
So
we
have
quite
a
bit
of
experience
with
kubernetes
itself
and
cassandra
outside
of
gratis.
Okay,
so
I
think
I,
like
Jim's
point
here
where
he
was
talking
about
taking
these
operators
stories
of
what
what
I
is
a
human
I'm
doing
every
single
day?
And
how
can
we
build
that
into
the
operator?
And
then
maybe
we
can
go
and
map
each
of
those
operator
stories
into
each
of
these
levels.
A
What
would
you
yeah,
what
are
what
are
some
of
the
things
that
you're
like
if
you
are
just
starting
out?
You
know
you
already
run
kubernetes
through
stateless
applications,
you're
looking
for
unstaple,
meaning
cassandra
and
you're
looking
you're
evaluating
an
operator.
What
are
the,
what
are
the
things
that
are
gonna
make
you
want
to
be
like
yeah
I
want
to
use
that
or
no
I
don't
want
to
do
that.
I
think.
F
The
Vegas
I
mean
obviously
the
first
two
like
can
I
stand
up.
A
cluster
really
easily
can
I
tear
that
cluster
down
easily
and
can
I
also
expand
and
shrink
the
cluster
easily
right.
So
just
by
modifying
my
CF
Rd
am
I
able
to
you,
know,
automate
a
cluster
expansion,
and
that
would
also
include
doing
things
like
cleaning
up
the
other
nodes
in
the
cluster
as
well
right
mm-hmm,
so
like
running
node
tool.
F
Cleanup
is
like
a
background
process
after
that,
and
then
another
thing
here,
I
know
that
metrics
is
under
enough
trouble
board,
but
I
think
metrics.
Definitely-
and
this
is
when
I
was
looking
at
the
insta
closure
operator,
having
the
ability
to
expose
metrics
via
Prometheus.
It
was
very
helpful
for
us
because
now
we
can
start
evaluating
the
performance
differences
between
our
clusters
that
are
running
coop
and
those
that
we
have
running
on
meth
right
now.
A
F
At
least
for
us,
because
you
know
before
we're
able
to
say:
okay,
let
start
putting
production
clusters,
you
know
on
kubernetes.
We
want
to
know,
what's
the
difference
between
what
we
have
today
and
you
know
what
kind
of
things
and
especially
because
we
all
run
like
we
have
a
kubernetes
as
a
service
team
inside
of
bloomberg.
That
runs
it
on
bare
metal.
So
there's
things
that
we
have
to
interact
with
them
to
figure
out.
You
know:
how
do
we
offer
storage
and
how
can
we
improve
performance
for
storage
and
things
like
that?
A
F
A
A
Don't
know
if
this
is
100%
true,
but
would
you
say
the
path
through
adoption
for
Cassander
kubernetes
starts
with
your
CI
CD
like
running
it
in
CI
CD
and
it
sounds
like
you
are,
but
I
just
want
to
verify
like
if
someone
was
like
not
to
get
Bloomberg
just
thinking
more
generally,
if
you
were
to
advise
somebody
who's
who's
trying
to
move
Cassandra
into
their
kubernetes
deployment,
how
would
you
what's
the
steps
you
would
have
them
take
to
gain
confidence?
There.
F
Being
it
as
part
of
the
CICE
pipeline,
that's
the
very
first
thing
that
I
would
suggest
to
do
so.
Having
you
know
some
sort
of
Jenkins
plugin
that
builds
a
a
standard,
clustering,
coupe
and
then
move
to
like
a
development
environment
and
that's
kind
of
where
we
are
as
we're
able
to
offer
a
development
environment
in
kubernetes.
F
You
know
if
you're
an
app
team
and
you
want
to
use
Cassandra
for
a
little
bit
of
time
to
do
testing.
You
know
it's
just
like
one-off,
like
build
your
application,
you
can
use
it
there
and
then
based
on
and
then
collect
metrics
in
the
development
environment
and
maybe
also
having
like
a
stress,
test
type
environment
or
staging
type
environment,
where
you
can
actually
collect
metrics
about
how
the
clusters
perform
eventually,
ultimately
leading
up
into
production.
At
that
point,.
D
F
F
D
I
would
say
no,
but
not
that
it's
a
Jenkins
plug-in
and
so
much
is
like
we
we
made
a
plan.
Go
you
know
we
prioritize
making
sure
there's
a
client
look
client
that
go
plug-in
or
I.
Don't
know
it's
code,
it's
generated
code.
So
it's
easy
to
write
any
small
app
that
talks
to
a
brunette
yeah.
It
has
a
cute
config
talks
kubernetes
and
creates
a
caste
see
instance
with
our
CID.
So
it's
pretty
tightly
related,
but
I
don't
think
it's
like
the
operator
itself.
D
F
A
Jenkins
plug-in
would
be
a
great
target
use
case,
but
maybe
not
something
that
you
call
all
right
part
of
the
love
our
level
1
operators.
We
also
offer
a
Jenkins
plugin
to
go
with
it.
I,
don't
know
we're
an
open
source,
Jenkins
plug-in
that
leverages
this
operator
with
live
at
the
end
of
the
day,
yeah.
A
That's
the
question
I'm
asking
because
I
think
of
the
key
here
is
is
adoption.
You
know
people
using
it
and
that's
why
I'm
like
this
is
kind
of
a
fuzzy
area
like
if
there's
and
I've
seen
plenty
of
projects
that
have
things
entry
to
to
aid
in
adoption
like
right
now
in
the
project
where
were
debating,
bringing
the
drivers
entry
right,
because
that
aids
adoption
yeah
a
driver
is
not
Cassandra
server.
But
you
know
that
that's
an
interesting
discussion
and
maybe
out
of
trees
as.
A
H
I
I'm
sorry,
lots
of
communication
problems
missed
most
of
the
discussions,
but
for
me
there
I
don't
see
any
need
for
any
Jenkins
plugin.
For
me,
an
operator
just
give
you
a
couple
of
of
lines,
two
shots
to
install
the
operator,
and
then
you
have
a
simple
CRT
and
pops,
and
there
you
go
so
I
think
people
should
be
I
mean
that
should
be
the
first
point:
I
mean
if
you,
if
you
want
to
fill
out
something
like
a
Jenkins
plug-in.
I
A
Yes,
there
are
many.
There
are
many
CI
CD
tools
out
there.
That's
true
circle:
CI
is
being
used
by
the
project
right
now.
Github
has
their
stuff
that
they're
doing
amazon
has
a
build
pipeline.
I
mean
it
is
picking
Jenkins
you're
right.
It
is
that's
a
little
opinionated,
but
it's
some
sort
of
like.
Maybe
this
is
part
of
the
community's
effort
of
trying
to
gain
adoption
and
not
part
of
the
project.
I.
I
I
On
the
Cask
up
side,
we've
just
changed
the
documentation,
it's
going
to
come
out
soon
and
we
make
it
as
simple
as
possible
for
people
to
create
a
cluster,
because
we
are
the
use
documentation
and
you
say
we
are
we
working
on
making
it
much
simpler
and
I.
Don't
know
maybe
I'm
out
of
scope
here,
but
you
talked
about
the
nation
in
the
beginning
and
we
wanted
to
say
that
we
will
be
very
happy
to
donate
the
code
of
Casco.
I
It
has
nothing
that
is
orange
oriented
inside,
except
the
name
of
the
geology
and
we'll
be
very
happy
to
provide
support
on
the
code
itself.
And
so
that's
we
don't
know
when
to
say
it
actually,
because
we
didn't
want
to
say
it
before
people
work
not
at
the
end,
but
we've
always
tried
to
basically
we're
always
taken
from
the
committee.
We've
used
Cassandra
a
lot
and
we'll
be
very
happy
to
donate
something
back
at
one
stage.
So
we've
done
everything
in
that
line
of
thinking.
I
So,
there's
nothing
that
is
orange
specific
in
there
and
it's
honestly
I've
tried
to
fill
up
with
documents
when
I
and
I
wish.
I
felt
a
bit
alone
and
I
said
now,
if
I
start
to
fill
document,
I'm
just
gonna
cook
in
paste
everything
that
cask
of
does
and
that's
not
fair,
because
that
would
be
just
like.
Oh
that's
what
I
say:
I
want
to
do
because
I'm
doing
it
already
so
I
stop.
I
So
what
do
I
do
so
you
have
to
include
other
options
to
basically
unstuck
your
operator
and
that's
what
that's
what
we've
been
doing,
and
that
would
be
something
that
you
I
wanted
to
say.
I
want
to
say
the
operator
should
provide
you
with
a
mean
to
unstuck
Cuban
assistance
to
set
up
dates,
and
so
that's
that's
a
little
bit
of
an
extra
for
the
level
one,
but
you
need
it
anyway.
So
I
mean
the
more
you
go
in
an
experience.
A
Now
I
appreciate
I,
really
appreciate
your
expertise.
You
guys
have
been
doing
this
for
a
long
time,
and
this
is
really
important
and
thank
you,
I
mean
I,
don't
think
anyone's
asked
or
has
come
out
and
said
it
but
like
where
donations
will
be
coming
from
and
that's
you
said
it
I
think
I
and
it's
recording
right
now.
So
you
can't
take.
I
Business
around
managing
clusters
so
will
be
a
big
people
use
it.
We
actually
work
with
instantly
stir
right
now,
all
together
to
include
backup
and
restore
in
Casco.
That's
gonna
come
out
soon
middle
of
June
and
that
we
expect
it
to
actually
work
in
production
for
us
so,
and
the
next
step
would
be
to
include
the
management
API
that
the
districts
came
out
with.
So
we
once
we
do
it
as
well,
but
to
be
up
for
that,
so,
okay,
we
were
just
waiting
to
for
a
moment
to
say:
oh
you
could
take
hours.
I
A
That
yeah,
that's
it's
an
interesting
direction.
What
I
I'm
really
trying
to
stay
away
from
if
I
can
isn't
and
thank
you
is
using
this
this
medium
for
making
decisions.
I
think
the
project
is
like
no
decisions
have
to
be
made
on
the
mailing
list,
but
I
think
it's
worth
the
debate
and
discussion
for
sure.
Let
me
I
mean
I'll,
just
open
it
up
to
the
floor.
Anybody
have
any
questions.
Comments.
I
mean
it
again,
we're
not
making
decisions
here.
That's
not
what
we're
for.
A
A
So
Brannon
is,
as
the
only
PMC
member
currently
online
right
now
way.
Yeah
I
know
you
get
it.
Sorry
well,
I
think
that
there's
we're
getting
to
the
point
now.
What's
gonna
happen
whenever
we
do
need
to
have
a
sub,
is
it
a
sub
project?
Is
it
a
new
project
or
do
you
know
if
there's
like
where
that's
headed
or
is
this
something
happens?
It's
on
the
DEP
list.
I
can.
A
A
Path
that
we
have
to
go
on-
and
this
was
very
clearly
explained
to
me-
was
that
the
CEP
has
to
be
finished
before
any
code
gets
done.
So
Frank's
saying,
hey
I
want
to
offer
this
as
a
donation.
I
think
that's
a
good
thing
to
put
out
there
for
sure,
but
we
really
need
to
get
the
CEP
done
and
if
it's
like
in
a
reasonable
form-
and
we
put
it
out
there
and
say
okay,
this
is
what
we
think
and
it
gets
I.
A
G
A
It
is
indeed
far
from
being
done,
but
I
don't
think
it's
that
far
I,
don't
think
it's
that
crazy,
far
away,
yeah,
Frank,
I,
think
and
I
noticed.
You
said
something
earlier
where
you
said
you
were.
You
were
concerned
that
you
would
come
in
they're
far
too
opinionated
around
Cos
Cob.
This
is
a
working
document.
Go.
I
C
For
what
it's
worth,
I
think
I
just
added
a
whole
page
with
the
content
in
the
past
20
minutes.
So
my
apologies,
there
I,
don't
think
when
we
get
towards
implementation
details,
that's
what
we're
gonna
be
more
biased,
we're
probably
going
to
be
in
a
good
spot
to
discuss
what
features
we're
looking
for,
not
necessarily
their
implementation
in
this
document
and
as
we
get
towards
the
implementation,
that's
where
we
can
look
at
what
the
operators
have
been
doing
and
come
together
as
a
community
like
this
is
a
solid
starting
point
are
alike.
C
C
It's
about
what
is
the
shape
of
this
operator
and
we
can
move
into
what
is
the
what's
the
scope
going
to
be
for
this
first
iteration
for
the
second
iteration
so
and
so
forth,
and
are
some
of
these
things
that
we're
talking
about
satisfied
and
can
we
build
off
of
the
Wragge
operator
and
check
X
number
these
off
and
say
this
is
done.
This
is
done.
This
is
done
so
please
feel
free
to
contribute
there
I
know.
I
am.
A
Yeah,
and
are
there
things
like,
are
the
things
we
can
do
to
help
move
this
long,
a
little
better
and
I've
thought
of
a
few
things
like
just
sending
out
a
simple
like
Google
Form
like
list
your
top
five
things
you
feel
like
should
be
in
a
level
four
level,
one
and
I
operator.
You
know
just
give
people
to
sit
the
most
and
I
could
tweet
that.
Please
don't
do.
A
Just
put
it
on
the
mailing
list,
like
let's
just
focus,
let's
have
a
focus
debate
on
the
dev
list,
so
we
have
two
mailing
lists
to
make
any
kind
of
decision.
One
yes,
but
I'm,
saying
just
to
stimulate
some
sort
of
conversation
like
let's
here's
one
focused
area
discuss
instead
of
just
go
to
the
Google
Doc
and
put
in
your
ideas.
J
I
A
No
I
think
that
I
think
that's
good
I
mean
I
yeah,
whatever
I
think.
Whatever
medium
we
can
use
to
get
that
discussion
going
and
put
the
right
amount
of
energy
into
it.
I
mean
you
know,
I
think
everyone's
kind
of
like
well.
What
are
we
gonna
do
here?
Let's
get
moving
we're
not
getting
any
younger
right
communication.
A
C
All
right,
I'd
love
to
kind
of
have
a
timeline
for
the
I,
don't
want
to
say
ceiling
but
work
when
we
feel
the
sea.
This
CV
will
be
in
a
good
spot,
I'd
hate
for
it
to
languish
for
a
month
or
two
months,
I'd
love
to
kind
of,
say.
Okay,
this
is
the
direction
we
want
to
take
and
then
we
can
start
the
next
step.
Well,
that's
why
we
started
discussed
through.
A
Agreed
I
I
think
it's
fair
to
say
so.
Here's
here's,
here's
my
aspirational
statement
and
I
would
love
to
push
back
on
this
and
say
I
think,
given
the
fact
that
we
have
already
have
a
huge
amount
of
experience
with
Cooper
natives
operators,
just
in
the
just
on
this
call,
it's
not
unreasonable
to
say
if
we
all
focus
some
effort,
we
could
have
this
EEP
wrapped
up
in
a
week
or
two.
J
I
I
A
A
There's
a
lot
of
stuff
in
here
and
then
so
we're
gonna.
This
group
will
be
meeting
again
in
two
weeks:
okay,
so
two
weeks,
almost
exactly
at
this
time
in
two
weeks,
because
it's
moving
an
hour
forward,
let's
make
the
goal
for
that
next,
one
to
be
to
cover
every
single
question:
let's
walk
through
every
single
question.
Make
sure
that
we
have
it
clear
and
get
to
a
settling
place
with
the
CEP.
I
G
I
I
We
like
meetings
when
we
progress
I
mean
if
it's.
If
we,
if
we
see
progress,
we
we
just
want
to
go
forward
and
finish
it,
but
then
you
need
to
think
what
are
the
steps
once
this
is
done
once
STP
is
finished?
What
do
we
do?
I
mean
I?
Can
I
can
stand
any
minute
with
the
donation
whenever
you
want
I,
don't
I,
don't
really
I,
don't
mind,
but
I
don't
want
it
to
be
bad.
I
I
A
You
know
yeah
I,
don't
know
what
the
timing
is
there
actually,
but
yeah.
That's
why
I
want
to
get
get
through
this
process
as
quickly
as
possible.
So
we
can
start
are
talking
about
implementation
and
implementation
equals
donation
of
code.
That
means
understanding
the
differences
that
means
actually
committing
code
into
a
repo
that
we
can
all
have
access
to
into
it
and
I
think
the.
A
A
A
B
There's
some
specific
processes
that
ASF
outlines
that
well
we'll
need
to
follow
in
order
to
get
the
donation
it
had
includes
getting
sign-off
from
all
the
people,
who's
contributed
into
the
code
repository
getting
them
to
sign
the
Apache
icle
and
there's
some
legal
checklists
that
need
to
be
followed.
Something
to
that
effect.
I,
don't
know
exact.
E
B
A
So
I
think
where
we're
at
right
now
is:
let's
what
so
as
I
as
I
understand
it.
Let's
continue
the
discussion
on
the
dev
list.
I
will
start
to
discuss
thread
today
about
getting
this
see
into
a
settling
place
and
then
I
think
soon
we
will
get
to
the
place
where
it's
okay.
This
is
what
we
want
to
do,
we'll
make
sure
that
it's
in
the
wiki,
but
at
that
point
Frank
I
think
you
need.
If
we're
talking
on
you
want
to
donate
code,
then
that's
a
different
thread.