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From YouTube: Small Scale Manufacturing Workshop with Matthew Wagner
Description
Small Scale Manufacturing: Opportunities for Economic Growth and Diversification was a workshop sponsored by Arlington Economic Development. The speaker was Matthew Wagner, PhD, Vice-President of Revitalization Programs at the National Main Street Center. Recorded at the Arlington Central Library on Feb. 28, 2020.
A
Good
afternoon,
everyone
thank
you
for
being
here:
I'm
Susan,
Scirocco,
I'm,
the
directory
of
creative
economy
for
Arlington,
County
Virginia
and
in
the
Department
of
Economic,
Development
and
I'm,
really
excited
about
our
speaker.
Today,
Matt
Wagner
who's
come
here
from
Chicago
we're
hoping
it's
a
little
colder
than
it
is
here.
A
So
I've
had
the
opportunity
to
manage
the
maiden
Arlington
program,
among
other
things,
a
mother
other
initiatives
here
in
Arlington,
and
it's
given
me
the
opportunity
to
see
what
the
potential
is
and
what
some
of
the
challenges
are
for
small
businesses
who
are
looking
to
scale
up
what
are
their
opportunities?
What
are
their
resources?
A
What's
the
capacity
for
building
a
business
from
start,
so
today's
program
with
Matt
will
give
us
a
little
bit
of
an
insight
into
what's
been
happening
across
the
country
in
programs
that
he's
been
involved
in
that
show
us
how
resources
are
being
leveraged
to
the
advantage
of
a
lot
of
small
businesses.
So
please
welcome
Matt
Wagner
for
our
presentation.
C
C
So
she's
mentioned
I'm
Matt
Wagner
from
the
the
national
Main
Street
Center,
although
we
just
have
created
a
new
sort
of
logo
over
the
last
couple
years
and
so
going
back
into
like
20
25
years
in
Main,
Street
I
still
call
us
the
national
Main,
Street
Center
and
anyone
that's
part
of
Main
Street
tends
to
do
that,
even
though
we
have
a
new
brand
called
Main
Street
America.
So
if
I
go
back
and
forth,
you'll
know
why?
Okay,
it's
a
little
bit
of
old
school
new
school
coming
out
and
me.
C
Around
I
later
went
back
into
the
trenches
back
to
Wisconsin
and
a
community
called
Racine
right
on
Lake
Michigan
did
a
lot
of
downtown
revitalization
work
there
and
then
lo
and
behold,
maybe
because
I'm
so
phrenic
or
something
I
decided
to
go
into
academia.
I
finished
my
PhD
at
the
University
of
Wisconsin
and
taught
in
entrepreneurship
a
little
bit
in
urban
economic
development
and
policy,
and
then
lo
and
behold,
a
company
you
may
be
familiar
with
called
SC
Johnson
SC
Johnson,
a
family
company.
C
You
guys
know
the
commercials
right
I
can't
get
that
out
of
your
head
now,
all
day
long
and
you
will
see
those
commercials,
so
they
make
glade
Windex,
etc
long
story
short
I
became
the
director
of
global
community
affairs.
I
led
global
philanthropy,
so
I
had
a
great
opportunity
to
give
away
lots
of
money
that
was
fun.
I
then
moved
into
the
real
estate
side
and
led
our
real
estate
holding
companies
involving
our
retail
and
our
service
and
back-office
functions,
and
then
in
2015
I
had
the
great
opportunity
to
sort
of
come
back.
C
You
get
these
great
opportunities
in
life,
I
think
sometimes
where
passion
and
time
and
life
matches
well
and
I
was
able
to
come
back
to
the
national
Main
Street
center
or
Main
Street
America.
So
now,
I'm,
the
vice
president,
revitalization
programs
and
the
great
thing
about
that
position
is
I,
get
to
be
very
entrepreneurial.
C
So
certainly
not
a
sort
of
johnny-come-lately
to
the
world
of
revitalization,
and
you
can
see
that
over
the
years
we've
been
heralded
as
one
of
the
top
economic
development
programs
relative
to
how
we
leverage
public
and
private
investment,
and
so
we
have
Main
Street
programs
all
across
the
country
and
just
about
every
state
here
in
the
country
and
lots
of
different
in
terms
of
money
leveraged
for
every
dollar
put
into
Main
Street
programs
from
the
public
sector.
Our
programs
are
leveraging
nearly
$40
in
in
private
money.
C
C
Doug
knows
come
to
the
big
bash,
it's
one
of
the
best
things
ever
a
massive
party
and
as
we
do
that
we're
a
big
resource
sort
of
clearinghouse
for
revitalization
efforts
across
the
country
in
terms
of
things
like
small-scale,
but
also
just
like
organizational
capacity,
how
to
do
resource
development,
how
to
recruit
volunteers,
to
design
to
economic
development,
how
to
do
promotions
and
marketing
activities
in
your
district.
So
if
you're
interested
in
that
feel
free
to
go
to
Main
Street
org
and
you
can
learn
a
lot
more
about
the
organization
we
are
known
for.
C
What's
called
the
four
point
approach
and,
as
you
think,
about
like
small-scale
and
supporting
small-scale
manufacturing
or
production
within
your
respective
communities,
irregardless
of
that
particular
sort
of
sector
of
the
economy.
This
kind
of
thought
this
kind
of
comprehensive
approach
to
I,
think
Community,
Development
and
economic
development
works
well
with
lots
of
different
industry
sectors.
So,
if
you
think
about
small-scale,
you
know,
generally,
you
need
some
sort
of
capacity
to
work
with
them.
Some
organizational
partnerships,
some
alignment
there.
C
What
we're
seeing
and
what
I'll
talk
a
lot
about
is
that
the
significance
of
place,
especially
the
built
environment,
so
when
we
think
about
historic
buildings,
how
many
of
you
go
to
a
brewery?
Anyone
been
there
lately
to
a
micro
brewery,
come
on,
don't
be
shy.
You've
all
come
on.
We've
all
been
there
right,
like
nine
times
out
of
10,
or
maybe
nine
point
nine
times
out
of
10.
C
Where
are
they
they're
in
some
lake
or
they're
like
like
they're
in
some
historic
building
right
or
some
old
industrial
warehouse
building
that
doesn't
happen
like
by
happenstance?
There's
lots
of
thought
that
goes
into
that
and
there's
purpose
behind
that.
So
this
alignment
around
sort
of
the
built
environment
and
the
the
branding
and
the
sort
of
the
consumer
experience
that
goes
with,
that
is
a
key
component
within
small-scale
production.
We're
going
to
talk
a
little
bit
more
about
that.
C
So
there
is
a
design
aspect
to
this
and
then
certainly
there's
promotions
and
marketing
like
bringing
a
network
and
a
cluster
of
those
businesses
together,
where
we're
branding
now
you're,
seeing
like
all
kinds
of
programs
like
made
in
Baltimore
made
in
Cincinnati
made
in
Tacoma
I
mean
there
is
a
marketing
angle
to
it:
a
social
media,
a
website
development
that
goes
with
it
and
then
finally,
certainly
there's
an
economic
basis
for
this
work.
In
terms
of
like
economic
diversification,
how
we
create
jobs,
how
do
we
create
meaningful
work?
C
C
Okay,
so
just
by
way
of
a
little
bit
of
history.
Okay,
because
many
of
us-
maybe
I'm
old
enough
I,
don't
know,
but
some
of
you
I
see
some
really
young
faces
out
there
as
well
may
not
remember
a
time
in
which
commercial
districts
and
especially
downtown
actually
had
manufacturing
like
it
actually
was
there
right
and
then
we
over
time.
C
You
know
we
were
using
these
kind
of
facilities
for
lots
of
different
other
things,
but
I
think
what's
now
starting
to
take
place
as
I
mentioned
before
is
now.
This
is
coming
full
circle
again
and
there
are
huge
fundamental
shifts
in
manufacturing
processes,
technology
logistics
that
are
giving
small
scale
an
opportunity
to
be
competitive
without
the
capital
investment
that
was
typically
necessary
in
large-scale
manufacturing.
C
So
we
get
often
asked
and
I'm
sure
those
that
are
involved
in
this
like
well.
What
is
small
scale
manufacturing
and
is
it
is
somewhat
difficult
to
define,
because
if
it
crosses
over
lots
of
different
industry
sectors,
you
know
you
can
find
small-scale
manufacturers
and
apparel
to
food
to
a
bicycle
manufacturer.
I
meant,
like
every
industry,
has
essentially
been
touched
by
the
ability
to
start
out
at
a
smaller
scale,
from
someone's
garage
to
basement
to
kitchen,
etc
and
then
scale
up.
C
So
it's
very
difficult,
like
sort
of
from
a
traditional
NICs
codes
perspective,
to
have
a
category
of
small
scale.
So
it's
really
about
the
amount
of
capital
investment,
the
equipment,
the
production
runs
at
which
we
sort
of
categorize
it.
But
having
like
one
sort
of
Industry
definition,
this
is
probably
the
closest
that
I've
seen
but
I
tend
to
like
think
you
kind
of
know
it
when
you
see
it
and
it
does
cross
over
many
many
different
sectors
of
the
economy.
C
These
are
just
some
examples
that
we're
seeing
out
there
I
live
in
while
I
work
in
Chicago
I
actually
live
in
Milwaukee
and
in
just
about
40
miles
to
the
to
the
West
is
Trek
bike
manufacturers.
So
many
of
you
may
know
track
well
in
the
City
of
Milwaukee.
There's
now
like
six
tiny,
small-scale
bike
manufacturers,
doing
everything
from
single
speed
to
e
bikes
to
Fat,
Tire
bikes,
all
within
specialization,
but
certainly
within
small
batch
runs,
unlike
Trek.
C
It's
obviously
doing
manufacturing
in
China
and
other
places,
including
Wisconsin,
but
obviously
a
little
much
much
larger
scale.
And
what
you're
tending
to
find
is
a
huge
consumer
shift
to
wanting
more
unique
product
items
and
I'm
gonna
talk
about
that
is
another
sort
of
fueling
agent.
That's
going
into
these
examples.
Okay,
so
again
everything
from
food
production,
food
production
was
probably
one
of
the
the
ones
that
really
made
the
I.
C
C
You
know
the
gamut
in
terms
of
industry
sectors
and
so
part
of
I
think
the
puzzle
for
many
of
you
that
might
be
working
like
in
a
district
mode
or
a
downtown
mode,
is
to
really
better
understand.
Where
do
you
have
opportunities
like,
where
are
maybe
some
particular
niches
or
clusters
of
industry
types,
so
that,
when
you
think
about
the
support
system
for
those
there's
actually
some
industry
overlay?
That
can
go
with
that,
because
there
is
specialization
in
some
of
these
areas
that
might
affect
in
the
support
system
for
them.
C
This
is
just
you
know,
pictures
from
around
the
country
that
you
see
everything
from
like
in
Duluth
that
has
actually
quite
a
bit
of
like
outdoor
manufacturing
specialize
because
of
like
the
lake
economy
there
and
people
that
are
in
canoes
to
motorcycles.
You
have
like
Polaris
up
in
that
area
too
canned
goods.
Obviously
jewelry
leather.
You
know
in
the
apparel
side,
health
and
beauty
aids
I
mean
it
just
goes
all
around
the
gamut.
C
These
are
just
some
Main
Street
examples
that
we
see
out
there,
everything
from
in
Nebraska.
You
know
a
soap
company
that
now
has
scaled
and
that
that's
a
key
and
we're
gonna
talk
a
little
bit
about
like
what's
the
progression
from
a
scaling
perspective,
because
it's
all
over
the
place,
obviously,
but
from
an
economic
development
perspective.
How
do
we
think
about
moving
them
through
the
sort
of
life
cycle
as
possible?
But
this
particular
company
you
know,
is
now
in
Whole,
Foods
Bed,
Bath,
&
Beyond.
C
C
Is
these
folks
are
in
a
downtown
building,
and
so
they
have
a
retail
component
and
then
sort
of
back-office
manufacturing
production
and,
as
we
think,
about
experiential
shopping
opportunities,
unique
products,
pay
scale
for
jobs
in
a
sort
of
retail
environment,
the
economic
churn
of
those
jobs
in
a
downtown,
and
now
that
might
result
in
someone
wanting
to
live
in
the
downtown,
be
able
to
walk
to
work.
There's
just
lots
of
spin-off
ramifications
of
that,
and
so
there
are
small-town
examples
and
then
obviously
there
are
more
sort
of
urban
district
example.
C
So
you
go
just
like
a
Salt
Lake
City,
where
we
just
named
the
The
Granary
District
about
a
year
and
a
half
ago,
a
Main
Street
initiative
and
a
warehouse
area
we're
outside
of
downtown
and
the
anchor
point.
There
was
Freitas
Bistro,
that
was
a
restaurant,
but
they
started
to
get
such
a
following
and
highly
entrepreneurial.
They
ended
up
creating
their
own
brands
of
you
know,
sort
of
the
raw
materials
that
went
into
the
food
everything
from
from
beans.
C
You
know
Pico
what-have-you
and
now
they're
shipping
to
major
regional
grocery
stores
throughout
the
West
they've
got
a
hundred
sk
used
within
the
production
line
and
they're
employing
a
boatload
of
people
right
behind
the
restaurant.
Ok,
all
right,
the
other
thing
I
think
is
starting
to
occur,
and
many
of
you
are
at
the
forefront
of
this
as
we're
seeing
this
as
an
opportunity
to
kind
of
create
some
district
identity
to
really
look
at
how
we
cluster
these
these
businesses,
much
like
you
see
with
restaurant
districts
in
art,
arts,
districts
or
arts
and
entertainment
districts.
C
You're
now
seeing
small
scale
manufacturing
districts
begin
to
pop
up.
Duluth
I
think
has
gotten
a
bit
of
sort
of
media
exposure.
There
was
a
great
NPR
piece
many
many
years
ago.
They
restored
at
the
forefront
of
this,
and
a
lot
of
this
happens
organically
in
some
cases
but
here
and
that
what
they
call
their
craft
district.
As
you
can
see,
a
lot
of
these
are
kind
of
like
complementary
that
maybe
use
similar
skill
sets
of
the
workforce.
C
That's
in
that
particular
area
so
or
knowledge
base,
or
is
part
of
the
brand
identity
of
those
particular
communities.
So
outdoor
recreation,
you
know
the
whole
paddling
that
kind
of
thing
to
the
motorcycle,
stuff,
leather
and
then
Owosso,
which
has
been
relatively
new
to
the
scene
and
happened
organically
as
well.
You
start
to
see
some
of
these
businesses
pop
up
and
you're
like
Eureka.
C
There
might
be
something
here
so
also
is
about
about
30
miles
outside
of
Flint,
if
you're
familiar
with
the
Michigan
area
and
but
a
lot
of
like
auto
engineers
in
the
area,
people
that
understand
manufacturing
and
but
they
may
be
in
a
whole,
like
different
sector
out,
obviously
outside
of
the
auto
industry,
but
they
take
that
same
sort
of
skillset
and
know-how
and
apply
it
to
something
they're,
very
passionate
about
which
may
be
things
from
popcorn
to
chocolate.
Now
they
have
a
leather
goods
manufacturer
you
like
walk
in
there.
C
C
No
they're,
just
first
yeah
yeah
they're
dispersed
so
yeah
great
question
like
so.
What
you
tend
to
see
is
because
of
the
nature,
especially
like
in
urban
districts
or
smaller
downtown's,
where
you
you,
don't
necessarily
control
a
lot
of
the
property,
and
so
this
whole
clustering
idea
sometimes
has
to
come
through
more
about
like
marketing
and
brand
identity
and
and
then
like
showing
the
linkage
between
these
versus
trying
to
cluster
them
all
tightly
together.
Yeah
yeah.
C
I,
don't
know
not
necessarily
about
Duluth
the
heritage
in
the
craft
district,
but
certainly
you
know
you
know
wah,
so
you
had
you
had.
That
is
an
element,
and
so
there
are
varying
degrees.
Obviously
there
are
hot
market
areas,
and
then
there
are
those
that
still
need
some
revitalization
activity.
I
mean
I,
think
small-scale
can
work
in
in
both,
but
there
may
have
to
be
some
incentivizing
there
may
be.
You
have
to
be
like
rental,
subsidy
programs.
There
may
have
to
be
like
commercial
land
Trust's.
C
C
We
have
lost
leaders
and
then
you
have
the
real
moneymakers
with
the
the
ability
to
ship
to
have
the
value-added
product
to
have
regional
markets
or
national
markets
is
where
you
get
then
enough
of
the
income
level,
without
necessarily
some
of
the
foot
traffic
to
make
that
possible.
Okay,
so
I
think
you
can
certainly
it
just
may
look
and
feel
a
little
bit
different
and
the
kinds
of
programming
may
be
slightly
different.
Okay,
good
questions
and
feel
free,
like
we
can
interrupt
as
we
go
through.
I
I
got
no
problem
with
that.
Okay,.
B
C
Sorry,
no
I
did
terrible
in
the
con.
No,
no,
no,
my
PhD
is
in
is
in
urban
economic
development
policy,
so
yeah
I
wouldn't
necessarily
I'm
more
from
the
school
of
hard
knocks
when
it
comes
to
the
economy,
uh-huh
living
it
doing
it
being
in
the
trenches,
seeing
it
yeah
yeah
okay,
but
if
we
want
to
talk
to
supply
and
demand,
I,
don't
know,
okay,
the
other,
so
we're
seeing
some
of
this
clustering
take
place.
C
Well,
that's
on
that
online
and
then
this
whole
sort
of
unique
experience,
built
environment,
specific
community
engagement,
specific
retailing,
that's
happening
out
there
and
that's
kind
of
where
this
obviously
is
falling,
and
so
there
are
now
major
initiatives,
primarily
in
like
the
marketing
branding,
not
necessarily
always
in
like
the
support
systems
that
you
would
define
by
what
we
would
call
an
ecosystem.
We'll
talk
a
little
bit
about
that,
but
things
like
the
made
in
Baltimore
program,
so
you
can
go
Google
made
in
Baltimore
you'll
see
a
website
is
a
member
based
organization.
C
That
really
does
things
more
in
terms
of
like
branding
marketing,
there's
a
certification
program
as
part
of
it.
It
includes
retailers
makers
but
also
the
actual
sort
of
maker
spaces
as
well,
and
then
they
do
some
networking
and
mentoring.
Okay,
so
you're,
seeing
more
of
this
kind
of
stuff
pop
up
as
well,
some
other
initiative
in
their
various
stages
of
development,
and
if
you
also,
if
you
wanted
like
from
a
resource
perspective,
there's
some
really
nice
emerging.
You
know
resources
out
there
if
you're
familiar
with
like
Smart
Growth
America
a
few
years
back.
C
C
A
Washington
sort
of
they're
made
in
Tacoma
just
like
made
in
Baltimore
you're,
seeing
the
made
end
stuff
all
over
the
place,
we're
seeing
it
state-level.
So
if
you
go
to
like
Wyoming,
you're
gonna
see
a
made
in
Wyoming
the
program
out
there.
The
other
big,
interesting
part
of
this
is
the
whole
Workforce
Development
angle
to
this,
what's
what's
been
I
think
somewhat
probably
problematic
that
we
found
in
sort
of
interviews
with
small-scale
manufacturers.
It's
not
always
the
demand
for
the
product.
That's
been
part
of
the
barrier
or
the
challenges
from
a
scaling.
C
So,
where
they're
at
is
a
distinct
part
of
how
they
market
themselves
and
how
they
think
of
themselves
because
again
consumers,
if
you're
traveling,
if
you're
you're
going
to
visit,
you
don't
want
to
buy
the
same
darn
thing
that
you
could
buy
anywhere
else
in
a
local,
Walmart,
right
or
anywhere
online.
You
know
you
want
to
buy
something.
That's
unique
to
that
particular
place.
That
can
tell
a
story
about
that
particular
place
or
about
the
particular
business
itself,
and
so
local
is
definitely
a
competitive
advantage
against
mass
producers
that
are
out
there.
C
That's
what
I'm
looking
for
I'm
looking
for
another
sort
of
supplement
to
how
people
might
come
to
that
particular
area?
Another
reason
for
them
to
come
that
supplements
retail,
that
can
create
foot
traffic
that
can
serve
as
an
anchor
and
that
can
work
with
sort
of
service,
government
and
other
sort
of
civic
opportunities
that
you
might
find
in
that
district.
It's
another
element
to
bring
to
the
table,
there's,
certainly
a
quality
angle
to
it.
C
They
tend
to
be
a
little
bit
more
on
the
value-add
side,
highly
specialized,
there's,
certainly
a
uniqueness
and
an
experiential
which
we
know
in
terms
of
like
looking
at
consumer
studies,
is
something
very
important
from
a
bricks-and-mortar
perspective
is
to
be
able
to
have
some
sort
of
experience
to
be
educated,
about
the
product
to
be
able
to
tell
a
story
to
to
visualize
watch,
maybe
even
participate.
So
I
was
in
South
Boston
Virginia
on
how
what
day
was
it?
C
C
The
ability
to
participate
and
then
like
give
a
gift
or
tell
a
story
about
a
particular
product
can
occur
in
lots
of
different
industry
types,
but
that
experiencial
is
the
value-added
part.
That's
gonna
get
someone
in
to
like
a
small
scale.
Business
we're
also
seeing
some
more
movement
in
terms
of
like
environmentally
friendly
or
social
consciousness
is
part
of
the
production.
You
see
that
with
like
Fairtrade
kinds
of
things,
organics
tech,
that
kind
of
thing
and
then
obviously
it's
something
there's
a
big.
C
C
So
when
we
think
about
entrepreneurship,
oh
wait
slight
little,
just
quick
deviation!
If
anyone
wants
these
slides,
feel
free,
I,
don't
know.
If
there's
a
record
like
I'll
post,
it
I'll
send
a
PDF.
You
can
like
you
all,
can
have
this.
No,
no
big
deal!
Okay.
So
if
you're
writing
or
whatever
take
and
feel
free
to
do
that,
but
you
can
have
this
okay,
so
one
of
the
biggest
impediments
historically
to
manufacturing
from
an
entrepreneurship
perspective
is
that
manufacturing
has
always
been
the
most
capital
intensive
industry
to
get
into.
C
So
most
the
time
you
get
into
an
entrepreneurial
venture,
because
it's
a
passion,
maybe
you
were
educated
in
it-
you've
worked
in
it.
You
had
a
family
member
that
was
in
it
something
along
those
lines,
and
so,
if
it's
manufacturing-
and
you
were
like
back
in
the
1980s,
that
was
a
huge
capital
investment
because
you
had
to
be
a
scale,
there
were
very
little
low
scale,
opportunities
or
short-run
opportunities.
Okay,
it
was
all
about
scale
in
volume
and
that
took
big
buildings.
C
Practically
I
mean
like
it's
that
insane
and
and
and
and
you
know
so,
everything
from
you
know
high-speed
kitchen-
you
know
like
mixers
and
that
thing
it's
a
sewing
equipment
to.
What
have
you,
the
price
and
the
scale
have
all
really
come
down
and
made
this
more
possible
even
to
do
like
sort
of
like
R&D
and
prototypes.
C
That's
all
come
down,
okay,
the
other
big
shift
has
been.
How
do
you
get
into
the
market
like
when
there
was
no
internet
when
there
was
no
lake
big
scale
of
FedEx
and
UPS
via
or
whatever?
It
is
like
ways
to
ship
like
that?
All
has
come
down
in
price
and
like
there's,
people,
obviously
working
in
their
basement,
doing
like
packaging
and
everything
else,
and
the
FedEx
person
shows
up
in
the
morning
and
by
the
next
day
it's
to
the
consumer,
okay,
and
so
that's
also
enabled
and
then
the
whole
marketing
aspect
of
online.
C
So
you
think
about
like
a
group
like
Etsy
I'm
sure
and
with
this
group,
like
everyone
knows,
Etsy
right
so
like
in
2014,
they
they
were
roughly
doing
about
about
five
hundred
million
in
sales.
Four
years
later,
they're
like
four
or
five
billion
dollars
in
sale,
but
well
most
people
don't
realize
about
the
online
platform
is
like
60%
of
Etsy.
Vendors
are
bricks
and
mortar
stores
and
so
again
the
ability
to
leverage
platforms
and
reach
large
national
international
audiences,
like
it's
cheap
okay.
C
So
it's
really
taken
the
capital
side
of
manufacturing
until
one
that's
much
more
attainable
for
most
people.
Without
you
know,
carrying
around
a
few
million
bucks
in
your
pocket.
Okay,
some
other
things
that
have
changed
and
shifted
in
some
areas,
just
pure
rental
rates,
the
ability
to
get
into
a
downtown
building
pretty
inexpensively.
The
footprints
are
nice.
You
know
they're
all
like
you
know,
two
thousand
twenty
hundred
and
twenty
two
hundred
square
feet,
or
so
you
can
do
production
very
easily
there.
C
A
lot
of
them
had
alleys,
you
can
pull
up
or
they
allow
shipments
in
front.
They
got
retail
exposures,
you
could
build
brand
pretty
cheaply,
but
also
then
obviously
shift
out.
Building
functionality,
work
well,
I
think,
there's
more
of
a
push
and
enlightenment
around
the
need
for
the
revitalization
of
downtown's
and
urban
districts.
There's
people
moving
into
those
places
that
want
kind
of
a
cool
shopping
environment
and
small-scale
lends
itself
very
well
to
that.
C
I'm
gonna
talk
a
little
bit
more
in
just
a
little
bit
about
like
pipelines
that
are
being
developed
and
I
don't
mean
like
oil
and
gas
and
just
three
pipelines.
It's
like
all
the
like
the
programming
like
farmers
markets.
That's
probably
the
top
example
right
like
who
doesn't
have
a
farmers
market
now,
but
if
you
think
of
that
is
pipeline
development
or
early-stage
R&D
for
value-added
production.
C
That
then
can
scale
that's
what
I
mean
in
terms
of
like
pipeline,
and
there
are
lots
of
different
examples
of
that
kind
of
thing
for
different
industry
types
that
you
can
look
into.
Certainly,
I've
probably
hammered
enough
on
like
the
nature
of
retailing,
consumer
preferences
and
then
the
whole
place
side.
Ok,
the
local
characteristics
of
it,
but
certainly
private
op
has
been
the
technology
and
access
to
markets
without
a
doubt.
C
C
C
96
percent
agree
that
shopping
at
small,
independently
owned
businesses
that
make
a
social,
economic
or
environmental
impact
which
obviously
small-scale
many
of
those
operations
fall
into,
is
part
of
the
very
reason
why
that
they
want
to
be
there.
They
want
to
support
these
kinds
of
business
operations
so
certainly
from
a
consumer
perspective,
we're
becoming
more
leisure,
oriented
and
more
experiential.
When
we're
going
out
to
sort
of
bricks
and
mortar
opportunities,
also
we're
seeing
like
this
whole
architectural
in
place,
mattering
more
and
more
so
Cushman
Wakefield,
they
do
an
annual
study.
C
This
is
actually,
if
you
want
to
see
this.
This
was
part
of
a
Smart
Growth
America
report
that
came
out,
but
in
this
particular
study
many
of
those
corporate
leaders-
and
we
think
about
like
how
office
it,
users
and
big
business
looks
at
locations
and
the
big
shift.
There
has
really
been
beyond
like
the
traditional
of
like.
C
All
right,
I
wanted
to
give
a
couple
of
statistics
both
actually
nationally,
but
also
in
Virginia,
which
will
be
the
next.
The
next
slide,
so
we
were
interested
in
understanding
from
a
manufacturing
perspective.
What
was
happening
because
qualitatively,
like
anecdotally,
as
we
went
around
the
country,
it
was
like
wow,
that's
a
small-scale
producer.
C
Well,
that's
what
and
like
every
community
we
were
going
to,
we
were
seeing
more
this
kind
of
stuff
pop,
and
so
we
have
now
about
a
thousand
downtown
and
urban
district
GIS
shapefiles,
and
so
we've
been
able
to
start
pulling
data
from
them
in
comparison
and
doing
comparisons
between
their
locales.
So
this
isn't
like
trying
to
compare
downtown
and
Wyoming
to
one
in
Virginia
and
vice-versa.
This
is
actually
looking
at
their
local
economy
versus
their
district
economy.
C
Okay
and
seeing
some
differences
and
long
and
short
short
of
it
is
year-over-year,
and
if
you're
interested
in,
like
the
latest
statistics
as
well,
can
can
pull
those,
but
in
both
in
terms
of
like
manufacturing,
growth
rates,
sales
and
job
growth,
we're
seeing
higher
performance
manufacturing,
Nick's
code
based
businesses
in
downtown's
and
urban
districts
than
the
rest
of
the
areas.
Okay,
now
I
will
say
a
lot
of
that
has
to
do
with
scale.
So
if
you
look
at
like
any
Small
Business
Administration,
you
know
data.
C
You
will
see
that
most
job
growth
occurs
from
like
phase
1
to
phase
2
of
like
of
like
a
business
lifecycle
and
as
you
get
more
mature,
you
tend
to
get
more
efficient.
You
maybe
bring
in,
like
you
know,
higher
higher
productivity
through
robotics
or
what
have
you?
And
so
yes,
you
might
not
see
some
of
that
jobs
or
as
fast
pace
growth,
but
it
is
interesting
to
think
about
from
a
lifecycle
and
from
a
real
estate
cycle
that
downtown's
and
your
urban
districts.
C
Your
communities
can
play
a
much
stronger
presence
in
how
we
scale
from
the
basement
and
garage
to
may
be
that
industrial
site
at
one
time,
but
we've
been
missing
the
middle
component.
Most
people
don't
go
from
their
garage
or
their
kitchen
to
a
40,000,
square-foot
industrial
site
and
so
purely
from
a
support
system
and
a
real-estate
place
system.
That's
been
missing
and
I
think
you
know
many
of
you
that
that
are
there
serving
in
those
roles
and
looking
at
this
play
a
significant,
you
know
role
in
helping
to
build
that
support
system.
C
On
many
levels
to
make
that
leap
happen,
otherwise
I
think
we're
hard-pressed
to
make
that
occur.
So
I
think
we
have
a
distinct
role
in
doing
that
in
sort
of
Main
Street
like
Community
and
Economic
Development
like
areas
and
partnerships,
it
met
in
Virginia,
same
thing,
okay,
so
this
is
from
17
to
18.
Will
pull
19
here
shortly,
but
again
same
thing
over
over
very
consistent
were
just
doing
some
work
in
Wyoming.
C
Did
the
same
report
same
thing
over
and
over
again,
so
whether
it's
national
state
what-have-you,
but
certainly
in
Virginia,
looking
at
Virginia,
Main,
Street
communities
and
looking
at
the
rest
of
their
citywide
efforts
same
deal?
Okay,
all
right!
Some
of
the
benefits
you
know
if
you're
still
like
thinking
about
this
from
a
pure
sort
of
economic
development
perspective
and
where
you're
gonna
put
resources
and
time
and
energy
when
there's
no
shortage
of
things
that
you
might
need
to
work
on
right
in
terms
of
your
own
work
program.
C
Certainly
there
is
an
equitable
economic
development
angle
to
that,
as
we
think
about
diversity
within
workforce
data
shows
that
small-scale
manufacturing
entrepreneurs
lots
of
different
backgrounds
again.
If
we
can
carve
down
the
barriers
to
entry
that
gives
more
people
an
opportunity
to
participate
in
this,
particularly
there's,
certainly
no
shortage
of
skill,
skillset
and
passion
within
within
all
of
our
groups.
Etsy
has
provided
this
platform.
C
Many
more
women
in
this
particular
area,
okay
and
then
diversifying
the
economy
and
uses
of
buildings,
which
I
think
is
really
important,
is
traditional
retailing
becomes
increasingly
hyper
competitive,
certainly
there's
a
recognition
that
we
were
over
built
from
a
real
estate
perspective,
Doug
and
I
have
a
mutual
acquaintance
and
Kennedy
Smith
and
I
know
they've
done.
Studies
I
I'll,
like
always
misquote
heard
Doug,
but
it's
like
four
times
over
bill.
Maybe
it's
even
five
times
over
bill
versus
what
we
actually
have
the
capacity
to
spin
on
retail.
C
In
terms
of
the
real
estate
built
environment,
this
past
year
alone,
there
were
close
like
ten
thousand
retailing.
Business
closures
with
national
chains
in
2019
was
the
biggest
year
ever
for
that
from
a
national
chain
in
franchise
perspective
and
we're
gonna
see
more
in
2020.
It's
just
gonna
continue
as
online
eats
into
that
particular
retail
sector,
especially
if
you
think
about
like
the
apparel
the
shoes.
That
kind
of
thing
has
just
been
a
big
Domino.
D
Environment,
yes,
right
now,
retail
environment,
so
I
do
know
we're
we
don't
have
enough
affordable,
housing
and
I.
Think
in
one
case,
not
too
far
from
here,
a
mall
has
been
converted
to
actually
a
homeless
shelter,
okay
at
least
supporting
that
some
of
those
functions.
So
my
question
is
who's,
doing
the
thinking
about
the
conversions
that
could
happen
and
what
it
takes
to
make
those
conversions
happen.
If
we
have
too
much
built
for
commercial
and
not
enough
for
residential,
is
there
anybody
doing
thinking
about
this
or
research.
C
C
There
really
isn't
like
a
lot
of
focus,
because
traditionally,
maybe
in
suburban
markets,
where
the
focus
is
more
on,
like
single-family
housing
or
maybe
industrial
development,
so
I
think
to
your
point,
I'm
sure
there
is
I'm.
Just
not
aware
of
like
someone,
that's
really
looking
in
to
that.
You
know
what
I
do
do
see.
More
often
is
maybe
still
attempt
to
do
something
on
that
parcel.
There's
lots
of
like,
let's
just
demo,
it's
like
throw
away
real
estate,
let's
demo,
and
let's
try
to
do
something
that
can
mimic
the
qualities
of
place
where
consumer.
C
If
it's
looking
at
a
retail
component
live
work,
there's
a
lot
of
like
they're
putting
in
government
facilities
like
like
workforce
development,
training
sites
or
community
colleges,
or
going
in
so
I
meant
it
seems
to
be
a
mixed
bag,
but
I,
don't
I
I'm,
not
aware
of
like
a
group.
A
National
Organization
is
spending
a
little
like
a
hyper
focus
on
that.
Okay,
okay,
all
right!
Some
of
the
other
benefits
we're
seeing.
C
Brookings
came
out
with
a
study
just
talks
about
like
pay
scale,
which
I
mentioned
earlier,
where
we
get
jobs
from
again,
if
you're
talking
about
like
new
creation
of
jobs,
I
hate
like
the
metric
of
jobs
just
from
a
personal
economic
development,
because
it
says
nothing
about
the
quality
of
the
jobs
and
I
think
with
small
scale.
You
have
real
potential
to
make
an
impact
on
like
what
wage
scales
are
like
the
teaching
of
certain
skill
sets.
C
C
It
also
helps
these
companies
to
diversify
revenue
streams.
So
you
know
if
maybe
the
local
sort
of
retail
market
isn't
as
vibrant.
At
the
start,
you
still
maybe
have
like
b2b
wholesaling
opportunities
or
these
online
platforms
or
being
part
of
consortiums
that
are
out
there
or
just
building
up
your
own
brand
identity
through
you
know
web
development
or
or
something
along
those
lines
so
back
and
help
versus
just
purely
traditional
retail
that
might
be
totally
dependent
upon
certain
foot
traffic.
C
Some
of
the
challenges
and
barriers
really
have
to
do
with
the
WAC
I
think
of
like
an
ecosystem.
So
if
you
think
about
ecosystem
not
like,
although
I
think,
we've
got
like
some
university
or
college
folks
in
in
the
room,
I
don't
want
to
get
too
academic.
But
we
say
like
ecosystems,
you
know
it's
really
about
like
how
do
we,
as
as
sort
of
role
players,
support
partners
in
in
industry
sectors,
whether
it's
tech
based
bio
or
whatever,
where
the
traditional
ecosystems
have
largely
been
that's
kind
of
lacked
in
the
small
scale.
C
Now
I
think
it's
emerging
you're,
seeing
like
libraries
are
getting
involved
in
building
out
maker
spaces
or
just
organizations
that
are
that
are
doing
that.
Obviously
cities
and
that
kind
of
thing
they're
trying
to
focus
maybe
from
a
place-based
perspective
or
developing
programs
that
are
branding
and
helping
to
market
in
this
particular
area,
but
I
think
in
terms
of
a
complete
ecosystem,
especially
in
things
like
the
social
capital
side.
C
How
we,
you
know,
can
support
them
through
networking
or
peer-to-peer
networks
that
you
get
in
other
sort
of
really
hotbed
technology,
ish
kind
of
sectors
that
doesn't
largely
exist
within
this
particular
that
might
have
to
do
with
the
diversity
of
street
types.
But
there's
still
sharing
that
can
go
on
because
of
the
scale
so,
whether
whether
or
not
you're
in
a
different
industry,
if
you're
at
a
similar
scale,
you
might
be
having
some
of
the
similar
issues
or
challenges
or
solutions.
C
Frankly,
behind
that
I
think
places
at
the
what
I
call
like
the
nascent
level
of
small
scale
we're
getting
better
at
but
programming
from
pop
ups
to
farmers,
markets
or
whatever
more
the
pipelines,
the
exposure,
the
ability
to
scale
and
not
go
from
that.
You
know
your
garage
to
that.
Forty
thousand
square-foot
industrial
building
is
still
I,
think
a
missing
element
out
there.
Yes,
sir.
E
I
visited
a
few
years
ago
with
one
of
the
Widmer
brothers
who
started
the
microbrew
ring
out
in
Oregon
before
that
really
became
a
big
deal
and
his
first
big
barrier
was,
of
course,
the
state
law
prohibited
it.
Okay,
yeah
you
couldn't
brew
and
sell
beer
on
the
same
premises.
Yeah
it
took
him
nine
years
to
get
that
law
changed
before
he
could
started
doing
it.
What
kind
of
I
would
say
regulatory,
governmental
barriers?
What
about
zoning?
C
We
were
like
the
depository
of
that
maybe
APA
is
or
something
along
those
lines,
but
I
think
that
is
a
common
question
like
who's
starting
to
write.
You
know.
Good
zoning
around
this
particular
sector
I
think
is
a
key
one,
but
that's
you're
right
on
spa,
like
that's
a
huge
huge
barrier
in
some
cases
you
have
done.
F
F
F
We
all
live
in
the
area
and
now,
as
we
contemplate
our
next
move,
we're
looking
at
PG
County
in
Maryland,
which
ironically,
has
the
same
law
in
the
books,
which
is
probably
designed
for
people
who
were
doing
what
we
were
doing
years
ago
at
a
much
larger
open-air
type
scale
yeah,
and
we're
really
trying
to
figure
out
how
to
navigate
that
and
use
our
resources
effectively
and
not
get
sucked
into
kind
of
a
zoning
battle.
Instead,.
G
Just
wanted
to
mention
that
the
the
the
regulatory
piece
is
really
substantial
and
in
Fairfax
County
we
just
went
through
that
in
the
last
year
or
so
with
having
to
really
amend
the
comprehensive
plan,
and
then
the
zoning
ordinance
to
even
allow
this
type
of
small-scale
production
use
because
it
just
it
didn't
exist.
It
wasn't
really
reflected
anywhere.
It's
not
traditional
manufacturing
and
it's
not
other
things.
C
D
Either
had
been
there
or
who
might
want
to
come
in
because
I'm
kind
of
wondering,
if
you're
the
first
person
in
fighting
the
fight
and
you
get
the
rules,
changed
you
get
in
at
that,
you
know
good
deal
and
then
I'm
wondering
if
then
it
makes
it
cost
prohibitive
for
other
others.
You
know
like
that.
Gentrification
phenomenon,
I'm
just
curious,
I.
C
Haven't
seen
but
I
think
it's
still
early,
like
I,
haven't
seen
enough
examples
to
where
definitely
say
that
okay,
you
make
these
changes
and
then
there's
escalation
from
a
real
estate
perspective,
specifically
because
of
the
zoning
shift.
I
meant
so
many
places
I
meant
like
for
us.
A
lot
of
that
is
like
rural
communities
and
that
kind
of
thing,
so
some
of
the
complexities,
maybe
in
a
more
urban
environment
that
you're
dealing
with
and
some
of
the
market
demand
from
a
real
estate
perspective
I
mean
I.
C
Think
there
there's
some
differences,
certainly
there
and
we
probably
we
probably
need
more
examples
of
that.
But
because
there's
been
so
much
market
demand,
I,
don't
think
you
see
enough
of
the
sort
from
a
case
that
a
perspective
yeah,
okay,
other
points,
okay,
just
some
other
things
in
terms
like
challenges,
barriers
and
again,
I
think
this
is
around
a
framework
of
like
support
system.
C
But
you
know
if
you're
trying
to
scale
there
can
also
be
like
equipment
needs,
especially
for
like
pilot
testing,
that
sort
of
thing
not
again
maker
spaces
have
maybe
helped
out
and
some
of
that,
but
for
other
areas,
it's
like
how
do
we
like
leverage
existing
resources?
I
mean
I,
think
that's
the
thing
I
mean
as
we
look
at
like
technical
colleges
or
community
colleges
that
might
have
like
fablabs
or
something
along
those
lines.
That
can
be
helpful.
C
Are
there
ways
to
leverage
that
or
frankly,
if
there
are
larger
scale
manufacturers
in
that
same
industry
type
or
at
least
equipment
type?
It's
almost
like
you
see
like
with
night
kitchens,
where
someone's
operating
their
kitchen
in
a
day
and
like
they're,
allowing
people
to
like
sort
of
air
B&B
it
in
the
evening.
Like?
Can
you
do
that
in
manufacturing
as
well
to
help
these
businesses
from
a
scaling
perspective?
C
Not
that
I
hope
anyone
fails,
but
if
you're
gonna
fail
like
fail
quickly
or
make
adjustments
course
corrections,
so
the
more
opportunity
we
can
do
like
through
pop-ups
or
in-store
pop-ups,
or
anything
along
those
lines
to
help
people
to
like
test
products,
get
it
out
in
the
market
sort
of
dabble
their
foot,
get
outside
of
the
house
type
of
thing
and
then
course-correct
without
having
to
like
mortgage
of
the
house
or
drop
their
401k.
So
on
this
because
they're,
probably
not
going
to
get
a
traditional
bank
financing
them.
If
there's
a
golf
there
right.
C
So
if
we
can
do
like
Rd
fail
and
fail
fast,
that's
probably
another
part
of
the
support
system
where
we
need
to
sort
of
elongate
that
out
I
think
you
know
in
terms
of
how
we
think
about
incentives.
You
know
again
a
lot
of
the
incentive
bases
around
sort
of
a
key
number
of
jobs
versus
quality
of
jobs,
about
the
the
impact
on
place
and
how
we
think
about
the
future
scaling
opportunities.
How
we
think
about
an
investment
from
someone
coming
from
outside
versus
someone
that
lives
right
in
our
back
backyard.
C
Like
all
these
kinds
of
things
come
into
play,
but
also
just
like
simple
ones
like
can
you
do
like
rental
subsidies
or
some
other,
like
you
know,
building
improvement
that
helps
them
to
get
there.
You
know,
manufacturing
operation
and
into
the
building,
I
mean
I.
Think
it's
just
how
we
think
about
how
we
fund
these
and
how
we
incentivize
them.
C
C
So
some
of
that
is
just
by
like
leveraging
more.
Does
that
whole
pop
up
phenomena
but
like
from
in-store
to
you,
know
Christmas
markets
to
any
kind
of
you
know
venue
that
you
can
do
where
they
can
test
products
out.
Consumers
are
looking
for
that,
so
the
opportunity,
especially
in
like
an
existing
store,
where
they
can
carve
out
maybe
a
hundred
square
feet
or
so
for
a
small-scale
producer.
Now
you
wouldn't
have
the
sort
of
experiential
part
of
like
watching
them.
Do
it
perhaps
paint
on
the
scale?
C
But
it's
another
sort
of
inventory
add
to
that
retail
operation.
They
can
be
very
complementary
to
the
existing
store
and
then
give
them
a
foothold
within
the
market
to
them
maybe
scale
into
their
own
and
we're
seeing
lots
of
this
kind
of
stuff.
This
is
happening
even
irregardless,
of
whether
it's
a
small-scale
producer,
this
sort
of
complementing
mixing
of
retail
categories
to
give
an
experience
within
a
retail
environment.
C
So
things
like
bike
stores
and
coffee,
roasters,
you're
gonna,
see
like
some
of
my
preferences
like
I,
like
bikes,
I
like
breweries,
so
if
you
can
put
them
together,
like
you'll,
have
me
there
for
sure
this
is
actually
in
Matthews,
North,
Carolina
right
outside
of
Charlotte,
so
they're
doing
their
brewery
production,
and
then
they
sell
bikes.
People
that
write
bikes,
hopefully
after
they've
gone
on
their
bike
ride,
want
some
beer
and
then
you
go
to
the
coffee
beforehand.
C
Like
telling
a
story,
how
you
feel
like
the
lifestyle,
if
you
had
that
particular
motorcycle
versus
the
product
itself,
but
you
can
do
that
in
a
small
scale
kind
of
environment
as
well,
so
any
kind
of
product
that
you're
manufacturing
there
might
be
sort
of
in
Soleri
storytelling
items
that
can
also
go
with
it
sort
of
packaging.
You
can
also
like
it's
not
always
just
someone.
That's
starting
brand
new
someone
can
scale
scale,
and
maybe
they
never
even
thought
about
scaling
like
they
are
making
something
on
a
local
level,
but
haven't
really
thought
about.
C
C
So
they
can
test
the
water
they're
into
you,
know
national
or
international
distribution,
or
have
they
even
thought
about
like
what
they're
doing
maybe
they're
a
restaurant
that
is
really
well
known
for
their
pies
or
something
like
that?
Are
there
opportunities
to
take
certain
inventory
segments
of
what
they
do
and
what
they
do
well
and
scale
that
portion
up
sort
of
a
lie
like
the
Freitas
restaurant
in
Salt,
Lake
City?
That
really
saw
that
kind
of
opera
nnedi,
the
probably
the
first
for
a
farmers
markets
you're
all
well
aware
of
that.
C
Ism
is
a
tool
or
mechanism
to
do
more
value-added
production,
whether
it's
in
jams
and
jellies,
pickles
or
whatever.
It
is
now.
Sometimes
it's
not
enough
to
support
a
whole
store
and
that's
where
you
can
start
to
think
about
like
consolidation
of
a
number
of
different
vendors
into
one
venue,
so
it
doesn't
always
have
to
be
like
one
producer
one
store,
but
there's
lots
of
different
ways
that
you
can
combine
market
create
clusters
around
these
kinds
of
producers
at
various
times
of
their
sort
of
scaling
lifecycle.
C
You
can
tap
into
online
platforms.
Has
anyone
gone
on
to
at
sea
and
unlike
a
search
of
who,
your
Etsy
people
are
in
your
area?
I
mean
it's
a
great
way
to
kind
of
like
discover
those
hidden
folks,
because
again,
while
60%
of
their
vendors
tend
to
be
bricks
and
mortar,
that
there's
still
a
boatload
they're
operating
out
and
might
be,
you
know
potential
with
a
support
system
with
some
encouragement
if
they
desire
to
as
future
you
know
retail
bricks
and
mortar
stores
as
well.
C
They're,
certainly
mobile,
retailing,
both
for
just
traditional
retailing,
but
also
people
that
might
be
making
products
and
still
aren't
able
quite
yet
to
go
in
traditional
bricks-and-mortar.
There
still
may
be
doing
some
production,
you
know
out
of
their
home
and
then
featuring
it
in
their
mobile
trucks
to
try
to
build
brand
and
market
identity.
C
But
these
are
all
just
like
lower
cost
ways
to
go
from
home
to
bricks
and
mortar
and
start
to
get
a
feel
for
the
marketplace
and
then
certainly
there
are
other
more
sort
of
real
estate
based
pipelines
that
are
dedicated
to
small-scale
producers.
Everything
from
you
know
share
kitchen
facilities
to
maker
spaces,
open
spaces,
artists,
co-ops
accelerators.
They
all
have
various
names
associated
with
it,
but
essentially
they
provide
a
space
to
do
the
work,
provide
equipment,
maybe
support
services,
maybe
there's
an
SBC.
C
That
also
is
providing
some
technical
assistance,
and
so
in
some
cases
they
become
sort
of
mini
or
micro
support
systems,
but
it's
like
how
do
they?
How
do
we
then
get
them
from
that
spot
into
these
other
in
terms
of
the
life
cycle?
Just
some
additional
pipelines
is
like
mining.
You
know
either
entrepreneurship
programs
or,
frankly,
like
community
and
technical
colleges,
where
they're
doing
it,
maybe
specifically
like
maybe
there's
some
engineering
or
that
kind
of
thing-
fashion,
design,
Lansing.
Actually,
if
you've
been
in
Lansing
Michigan,
go
downtown,
there's
a
great
fashion,
incubator.
C
That's
then
spinning
off,
you
know
sort
of
small-scale
producers.
In
the
apparel
side
you
might
have
an
spdc
and
like
who's,
your
clients,
you
know
if
they're
interested
in
small-scale,
can
you
send
them
my
way.
Maybe
I
can
help
them
out
with
space
or
what
have
you
doing
like
Pichet
contests
or
shark
lake
shark
tank,
like
contests
where
you're
giving
extra
points
for
maybe
small-scale
producers.
C
C
But
you
know,
typically,
you
see
like
that
artist,
crafter
maker
or
an
Ag
producer.
These
are
largely
what
we
think
of
as
the
pipeline
that
we
referred
to
so
like
that
fail-fast
stage.
Maybe
they
have
a
full-time
job
they're
doing
this
a
side
hustle.
You
know
they're
part
of
that,
like
a
cottage
legislation
and
doing
it
out
of
their
their
home.
But
these
tend
to
be
much
more
micro
space
oriented.
C
You
might
consider
putting
them
into
a
store
to
test
the
the
marketplace
they
may
be,
using
like
an
online
platform.
Like
you
know,
makers,
ro
or
Etsy
and
generally
may
have
like
zero
employees.
I
guess
I
should
put
a
zero
there
unless
they
count
themselves,
but
certainly
at
that
smaller
scale
for
sure,
okay
and
then,
and
then
you
know
you
transition,
then
to
more
of
a
you
know,
small
producer,
that's
more
of
your
traditional
storefront
has
a
retail
component
in
a
production
component
to
it.
C
Now,
that's
not
to
say
some
of
you
may
not
be
interested
in
the
retail
I'm
biased
because
I'm
looking
at
like
downtown
revitalization
and
retail,
being
a
core
component
of
that.
But
there
are
certainly
like
old
warehouse
districts
where
maybe
the
retailing
isn't
as
big
of
a
component
you're
looking
for
other
spaces,
where
you
can
help
businesses
scale,
and
then
you
know
we're
moving
up
to
much
more
scalable
producers
where
they
sort
of
move
beyond
a
lot
of
them
may
keep
like
millas.
C
Ana
is
probably
at
that
stage,
but
they
keep
and
maintain
or
retail
component
for
brand
identity.
Even
your,
like,
your
micro
breweries,
in
some
cases
that
are
really
starting
to
scale
big
and
now
have
moved
production
somewhere
else
may
keep,
obviously
that
retail
component
is
a
brand
marker
for
them
and
then
other
ways
to
just
support,
and
this
is
why
so,
we've
done.
C
We
start
to
do
more
interviews
of
small
scale
producers
to
understand
like
how
do
how
do
their
needs
differ
from
like
traditional
retail
or
office
sector
or
whatever,
and
and
what
you
find
is
like.
They
know
their
products,
but
they
may
not
understand
anything
around
like
retailing
and
merchandising.
How
do
how
to
do
like
a
storefront
like
design
a
window
display
like
that
may
be
a
foreign
concept
to
many
many
of
them,
oftentimes
is
they're
scaling.
They
may
not
understand
as
much
around
like
logistics
and
how
to
do
like
bulk
shipping.
C
You
know
that
kind
of
stuff
to
specialized
workforce
which
I
mentioned
earlier.
You
know
how
to
get
in
to
other
markets.
You
know
no
we're
born
too
late.
Think
about
like
import-export,
Bank
and
I
do
deals
along
those
lines
I'm
finding.
It
may
not
be
in
like
higher
dense
areas
like
where
we're
at
today,
but
you
go
places
like
out
west,
like
you,
may
not
find
like
someone
that
can
do
canning
or
bottling
or
light
can
do
filling
like
you
may
have
to
go
to
a
whole
nother
state.
C
So
I
met
with
this
big
he's
called
the
salsa
guy.
That's
really
his
name,
even
though
we
all
know
a
salsa
guy.
This
guy
really
is
his
product
is
called
the
salsa
guy
and
he
couldn't
ace
in
Wyoming
in
Rock
Springs,
which
no
one
probably
knows
about
like,
but
it's
Rock
Springs
on
the
far
western
side,
and
literally
he
has
to
go
near
the
Denver
area,
because
he's
scaling
so
fast.
He
has
no
one
to
produce
the
product
form
so
that
whole
third
party
stuff
is
really
important.
C
Whole
thing
around
branding
and
marketing
also
space
planning.
You
know
when
you're
dealing
with
you
know
a
typical
like
downtown
building
and
you're
trying
you're,
also
sort
of
growing
like
how
do
you
lay
out
a
manufacturing
process?
You
know
there's
a
lot
of
engineering
and
design
for
efficiency
and
flow,
so
you're
not
like
tripping
over
yourself
and
like
where
are
you
putting
in
product
and
like
like
there's
a
there's,
a
science
to
that
and
oftentimes
at
that
kind
of
scale?
C
That
might
not
be
a
prevalent
sort
of
service
like
if
you
think
about
like
your
manufacturing
extension
partnership
groups
and
that
kind
of
thing
that
you
know
they
may
have
it,
but
they
may
not,
and
so,
but
certainly
many
of
them
are
looking
at
like
space
planning
laying
out
and
then
just
that
whole
online
social
media.
That
I
think
like
so
many
small
businesses
are
trying
to
figure
out
and
get
more
acquainted
with.
Certainly
in
the
small
scale
they're
facing
that
as
well.
I'm,
not
gonna,
go
through.
C
All
of
these
you'll
be
able
to
see
them,
but
I
think
there's
a
there's.
Also
like
more
things.
We
can
do
with
just
finding
connecting
them
building
that
social
capital
side
of
it,
the
mentoring,
the
network.
What
we've
seen-
and
this
is
again
this
is
actually
in
Laramie
Wyoming,
where
your
larger
manufacture
manufacturers
are
starting
to
be
mentors
to
small-scale.
You
know,
helping
them
to
figure
out
where
there's
chaplet
challenges
and
barriers.
C
If
your
thing
about
incubation,
you
know,
USDA
does
some
of
that
thing,
depending
on
the
size
of
your
community.
Eda
has
gotten
involved
and
they
certainly
fund
a
lot
of
like
incubators
and
stuff.
Is
it
easy
money
to
get?
No,
of
course
not,
but
you
know
there
is
that
is
leveraging
of
TIF
or
pilot
like
there's
just
a
whole
host
of
for
microfinance
errs,
and
now
we
have
opportunities
owns.
C
If
anyone
has
this
figured
out,
let
me
know
no
I'm,
sorry,
quick,
commercial,
crowdfunding
platforms
and
there's
just
lots
of
things,
but
it's
really
about
figuring
out.
You
know
who's
the
cluster
who
you
trying
to
work
with.
What
are
you
trying
to
accomplish
and
then
matching
the
best
tools
to
position
with
them?
C
C
You
can
look
at
cross-section
partnerships
and
I
think
this
is
really
since
there
aren't
traditionally,
like
were
the
small
scale
organization,
although
they're
I
think
those
things
are
starting
to
a
to
emerge.
You
know
if
you're
thinking
about
a
complete
ecosystem,
it
really
takes
lots
of
different
groups
and
organizations
to
buy
in
so
this
whole
thing
around
the
alignment
of
a
vision
for
what
you're
trying
to
do
first
and
foremost
and
alignment,
a
mission
that
you're
going
to
support
them.
C
You're
gonna,
put
resources
there,
you're
gonna,
put
capacity
at
all
sort
of
levels
in
and
around
that
ecosystem.
I
think,
is
a
really
critical
element
here.
We
do
it
with
for
like
sort
of
big-time
economic
development,
larger
you
know,
scale
projects
and
that
kind
of
thing,
but
at
the
smaller
scale
that
might
not
always
exist.
So
there's
an
education
about
why
it's
important
what
it
can
do,
what
it
is
that
has
to
really
go
with
that,
and
this
really
gets
the
overall
ecosystem,
and
so
this
is.
This
is
sort
of
a
traditional
graphic.
C
You
see
this
if
you
go
to,
like
the
the
you
know,
do
a
search
on
entrepreneurial
ecosystems.
What
you'll
see
is
like
sort
of
university
academic
or
around
this
we've
added
physical
environment
or
sense
of
place
to
this.
You
won't
see
this
in
like
an
ecosystem
I'm
familiar
with,
but
we
certainly
feel
that
there
is
a
a
real
estate
component
in
a
sense
of
place
component
to
this,
but,
as
you
think
about
the
support
system
for
small-scale
producers
recognize
one.
It's
not
just
about
the
place.
It's
not
just
about
funding
them.
C
So
you
know,
as
you
look
to
build
out
your
support
system
for
these
small-scale
producers
like
I,
think
this
is
an
important
conversation
to
have,
even
if
it's
like,
building
out
a
shared
sort
of
dashboard
of
work
plan
activities,
so
you
better
understand
who's
doing
what
what
role
you're
playing
I
got
your
back.
You
got
my
back
kind
of
thing.
That's
truly
what
I
think
a
lot
of
this
takes
so
one
example
that
you
might
start
to
follow
we're
just
getting
geared
up
for
it.
C
You
may
have
heard
about
it,
so
the
Department
of
Housing
and
Community
Development
here
in
Virginia,
launched
a
pilot
initiative
back
in,
like
I.
Think
the
RFP
was
around
like
October
ish
of
2019.
These
five
communities
or
regions
in
some
cases
were
selected
primarily
one.
They
had
good
proposals,
but
two
was
also
some
geographic
distribution
and
some
different
type
ologies.
C
So
in
each
case,
there's
going
to
be
an
ecosystem
overlay
where
partners
are
coming
to
the
table,
taking
different
parts
of
that
ecosystem,
building
out
the
pipeline's
of
these
small-scale
producers
and
setting
up
systems
for
growth,
and
so
this
pilots
gonna
run.
It's
just
getting
kicked
off
actually
in
a
couple
weeks,
actually
next
week
in
Bristol
and
then
we'll
run
about
a
year
and
a
half
in
terms
of
some
of
the
the
ta.
C
There
will
also
be
some
some
funding
partners
and
in
terms
of
some
of
the
implementation
that
will
come
out
around
the
support
system,
design
and
that
will
be
forthcoming
as
well,
but
I
know
Susan
wanted
me
to
to
mention
this,
but
there's
also
initiatives
or
other
initiatives
around
the
state.
That's
got
a
program
and
Fairfax
I
know
there's
a
program
in
Charlottesville,
probably
more
than
aren't
like
I'm
forgetting,
but
there's
there's,
definitely
starting
to
be
much
more
of
a
focus
around
this
and
I.
C
E
C
Yeah
yeah
good
great
question.
Certainly
we
have
more
data
on
just
entrepreneurs
in
general,
then,
probably
like
singling
out
small-scale
producers
is
probably
a
deeper
dive.
That's
needed
into
that.
The
problem
is
so
much
of
that
data
is
typically
collected
by
like
from
a
NICs
code
or
some
sort
of
federal.
There
is
none
for
small-scale.
We.
It's
all
industry
sector,
however,
might
like
just
in
general
somewhat
anecdotally,
but
if
you
think
about
just
startups
in
general,
women
are
definitely
the
fastest
growing
segment
of
the
market,
especially
when
you
look
at
downtown's
in
urban
commercial
corridors.
C
So,
while
overall
entrepreneurship
is
is
being
led
in
terms
of
growth
rates
by
women
and
minority
and
immigrant
populations,
it's
hyper
concentrated
when
you
look
at
downtown's
in
urban
districts.
Okay,
so
if
you
take
that
you
might
be
able
to
do
a
little
bit
of
extrapolation,
but
I,
don't
think
we
have
definitive
like
who
these
folks
typically
are.
Some
is
frankly
due
to
the
economy
as
well,
people
thinking
about
side
hustles.
They
need
to
generate
additional
income.
The
barriers
are
so
low
and
I've
got
platforms
now,
I
can
start.
C
B
Baltimore
is
a
place
where
the
need
is
great
and
economic,
equitable
development
and
that's
the
city
urban
area
that
needs
it.
One
of
the
things
that
I
didn't
mention
to
you
earlier
before
you
started
to
talk
is
I
want
to
help
create
jobs
in
Baltimore
and
I'm.
Looking
for
an
economist
who
can
help
me,
my
business
help
me
to
inspire
this
idea.
Actually
I'm.
G
C
The
like
that
particular
industry,
like
left
the
country
and
so
whether
or
not
there
are
those
kinds
of
things,
but
if
you're
looking
at
like
case
studies
or
models
around
that,
that
might
be
an
academic
pursuit
at
a
university,
it
still
has
maybe
some
programming
in
that
area
as
well.
I,
just
don't
know
enough
about
that
particular
industry.
H
C
I
think
and
again,
anecdotally:
I,
don't
have
a
study
on
maker
spaces
or
anything
like
that.
But
anyway,
I
think
what
you
tend
to
see
like
with
baking
and
food.
It's
such
a
specialized.
It
needs.
You
know
any
commercial
kitchen
like
that
tends
to
be
like
a
kitchen,
incubator
or
shared
kitchen
facility.
C
Now,
there's
like
even
like
brewery
incubators
that
are
popping
up
in
some
areas
associated
like
technical
colleges,
with
brain
instruction
and
then
same
thing
for
like
in
Lansing,
there's
like
the
pure
fashion,
so
I
think
you
see
like
industry
specific
where
perhaps
the
equipment
or
something
like
that
is
very
I.
Think
maker
spaces
are
more
good
for,
like
if
you're
doing,
maybe
like
printing
or
some
engineering
kinds
of
stuff.
C
So,
like
I,
don't
know
when
you
get
down
to
like
individual,
very
highly
specialized
or
specific
industry
sectors
like
if
you
find
it
there
or
an
association,
maybe
with
a
with
a
program
at
an
academic
institution
where
you
can
get
some
of
that,
I
mean
make
your
space
yeah
I'm.
Sure
like
like,
like
they're,
like
growing
like
crazy,
like
library
systems
and
individual
groups.
Private
organizations
to
like
are
doing
these
things
yeah
there
we
go.
G
I
Problem
is
especially
with
a
space
like
ours.
We
and
and
I've
got
cards,
but
our
space
is
primarily
a
training
facility
and
we
happen
to
have
a
lot
of
really
high-end
tooling.
That
allows
for
our
training
that
we
recognized
lays
dormant
a
lot
of
times,
and
so,
when
it's
lying
dormant,
we
can
make
some
extra
money
on
it.
I
But
we
also
put
in
a
lot
of
our
tooling
because
we
were
able
to
buy
all
of
the
assets
from
TechShop
lynchwood,
which
went
super
bankrupt
in
Crystal
City,
because
makerspaces
traditionally
aren't
able
to
make
enough
money
to
facilitate
the
space
continuing
to
exist,
because
all
that
tooling
and
all
those
all
the
equipment
is
really
really
expensive
and
really
hard
to
maintain.
And
so
as
a
as
a
makerspace
as
a
as
a
hub
for
innovation
is
a
great
idea
in
practice,
but
it
needs
something
else.
C
I
always
wonder
not
to
like
get
too
far
off,
but
I
always
wonder
like
can
you
can
you
begin
to
leverage
localized
assets,
like
other
manufacturers,
do
more
like
sort
of
virtual
maker
spaces,
so
you
still
have
a
system
that
manages
it,
but
the
whole
like
space
and
equipment
II,
which
is
the
most
expensive
part
of
it?
Can
you
leverage
existing
resources
to
do
it
almost
like
a
like
sort
of
like
an
air
B&B
kind
of
style,
especially
at
rural
economies,
which
to
try
to
do
a
makerspace
to
just
be
the
private
resource,
yeah.
I
E
I
Make
sense
for
the
work
that
they
need
to
do,
which
then
allows
us
to
work
with
local
programs
and
after-school
programs,
and
things
like
that
at
the
rate
that
they
can
pay.
So
it
becomes
this
kind
of
balance
that
you
have
to
strike
between
what
you
have
to
pay.
You
have
to
charge
to
be
able
to
make
the
space
function
versus
what
you
want
to
charge
for
people
like
an
underserved
community
member
who
has
a
good
idea
to
get
started.
I
J
C
F
Described
a
pipeline
that
went
from
someone's
basement
to
a
40,000
square
foot
manufacturing
facility.
What
if
somebody
doesn't
want
to
do
that?
Are
there
any
businesses
that
you
guys
have
encountered,
that
is
successfully
gone
to
Main
Street
and
then,
instead
of
scaling
in
this
kind
of
typical
drive
down
costs
and
get
bigger
sort
away,
but
they
got
broader.
C
I
think
that
actually
is
is
more
frequent
than
the
actual
going
to
the
forty
thousand
square.
I
mean
that's
a
heavy
leap,
you
know
so
I
think
there's
probably
actually
more
opportunity
to
to
diversify
across
lines.
Then
to
go
that
leap.
I
mean
it's
great
if
that
happens,
but
it's
probably
more
frequent
that
people
stay
sort
of
in
that
space.
C
Think
the
other,
the
other
issue
is
like.
Frankly,
we
don't
have
enough
of
I
called
the
inn.
We
know
we
don't
have
enough.
Like
case
study
examples
you
know.
A
lot
of
this
is
still
at
the
anecdotal
phase.
It's
the
visual
you
know,
and
so
it's
it's
the
you
know,
you're
going
in
the
trenches
you're,
seeing
it
you're
talking
to
people
that
are
doing
it,
but
that's
kind
of
like
I,
haven't
seen
a
lot
of
documentation
and
data
around
it.
C
I
think
that's
sort
of
the
whacking
part
of
this
particular
sort
of
new
emerging
sector
of
manufacturing,
but
but
we
have
a
new
research
person
coming
on
board
and
so
every
nice
to
put
them
on
that.
Alright!
Well,
hey
thanks!
Everyone
for
coming
out!
If
you
have
follow-up
questions,
you
ever
want
to
chat
about
this
I'm
always
interested
in
learning
more.
We
certainly
don't
know
everything
by
any
means,
so
those
my
contact
information
feel
free
to
call
email,
I'm,
not
fancy
and
have
all
that
other
stuff.
So
just
use
that
that's
good.