Arlington County Government, VA Human Rights, 17 Oct 2018

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From YouTube: Women in the Workplace: Issues and Trends

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Chai Feldblum, Commissioner of the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC), speaks to Arlington County employees in a program co-sponsored by the Arlington County Dept. of Human Rights and WoWORK - Arlington County Government Network for Women Leaders. Recorded October 17 2018 in the Ellen M. Bozman Government Center.

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For those of you who don't know me, I'm diane kresh, I am the director of.

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Libraries, but I'm also the convener for wow, which is women, work and it's an.

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Employee resource group for women leaders in arlington county, it doesn't.

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Mean that men cannot participate in the programs or participate in some of the.

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Workshops, but it is an opportunity to create fellowship and networking and.

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Role, modeling and mentoring for women leaders, at whatever stage of leadership.

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They are because the goal is to attract and retain the best women leaders that.

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We can so we started wow earlier this year. There are over a hundred people on.

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Our mailing list, we have events, we have workshops, we have happy hours, we have.

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Lunchtime, conversations where you just come as you are and if you've got an.

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Issue, great and and gable has a book club not really. We hope to have a book.

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Club but anyway, thank you all because I think I think the fellowship and the.

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Networking and the problem sharing and just knowing that there are other people.

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Out there in the work force, who think as we do and have some of the same.

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Challenges and stresses, I think, is rewarding in itself so again. Thank you.

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So today we're delighted to welcome our speaker, commissioner, hi fella bloom of.

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The equal employment opportunity, commission she was one of the creators.

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Of the original employment non-discrimination act and is a strong.

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Voice for lgbtq+ rights, she began her service as a commissioner.

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Of the eeoc in april of 2010 during her service on the commission, she has.

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Focused on employment, civil rights issues, including employment of people,.

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With disabilities, pregnancy, accommodation, sexual orientation and.

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Transgender discrimination, harassment, prevention, the structure and process of.

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The federal sector, complaint system and strategic planning for the commission.

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Prior to her appointment to the eeoc commissioner, feldblum was a professor of.

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Law at the georgetown university law center and she founded the law center's.

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Federal legislation, at straight of clinic, which represented a.

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Range of organizational clients focused on social justice. She also founded the.

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Workplace flexibility to 2010 a policy enterprise focused on finding common.

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Ground between employers and employees on workplace flexibility issues. She has.

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Played a leading role in helping to draft and negotiate the americans with.

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Disabilities act of 1990 and the a.da amendments act of 2008. She has also.

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Worked to advance lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender rights. Commissioner feldblum.

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S the first openly lesbian commissioner of the eeoc and is the.

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Fourth person with a disability to serve on the commission. She clerked for judge.

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Frank coffin of the first circuit court of appeals and for supreme court justice.

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Harry blackmun, after receiving her jd from harvard law school, she received her.

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Ba from barnard college, please join me in welcoming commissioner feldblum.

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Thank you thanks so much. I think, usually that bio is shorter, but thank you so.

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Number one I want to give a shout out for wow for day and for all the other.

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People who have started well because part of why I'm here is because of.

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Networking is because of knowing folks who then knew folks who knew me, and I.

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Was like I'm gonna, come out and talk to this group, so I am all about from the.

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Happy hours to the lunches, I absolutely believe that the networking is key. Okay,.

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So what I want to do is talk mostly about the work we've been doing on.

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Harassment prevention because of there I feel the eeoc has actually taken a.

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Potentially transformational role in terms of making change, so I'm gonna.

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Spend most of my time on that, I want to make a few comments about other things.

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We're working on when I say the elc enforces title seven.

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The anti-discrimination law and employment, what that means is everyone.

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Has to come through our doors first to file a charge of discrimination.

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Employment discrimination before they can go to court, so they have to come.

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Through us, the plus about that is, they don't need lawyers, and we often can get.

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Relief for people in confidential settlements before anyone goes to court.

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But because congress has never actually resourced us to the extent we need the.

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Timelines are just absurdly long in terms of sometimes getting relief, so.

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After a period of time, we can just give the person if the person has a lawyer.

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Which is the best a right to sue to go to court? Obviously you don't need a.

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Lawyer to go to court either, but it's better. If you have a lawyer, so we try to.

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Help as many people as we can part of what we do in that respect, is try to.

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Think, proactively about issues that we should be looking at as a commission, so.

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When we get charges in raising those issues, we can really be on top of them.

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And sometimes help move the law forward, so one priority over the last eight.

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Years has been pay equity issues. I'm sure it'll come to no shock to you that.

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There are pay disparity issues for women, sometimes it's blake, plain-old you're.

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Doing the same job as a man and getting paid less and we bring a lot of those.

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Cases sometimes it's the occupational segregation, you know, jobs that are.

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Male-Dominated often pay more than jobs that are female, dominated women quote.

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Unquote, self-select into those women dominated positions.

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Well, sometimes, yes, but sometimes because they can't get in to the male dominated.

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Positions, we have a number of lawsuits that we have brought in fact, one that.

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Got settled yesterday, but I didn't see the press release yet on our website. So.

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If you go to eeoc, gov you'll see it. If you follow me on linkedin or twitter at.

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Fell bloom. What facebook you'll see me posting it by the end of today, probably.

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So do a lot of that work. The other thing we have done a lot of work on is.

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Pregnancy, discrimination: I cannot tell you how much discrimination there still.

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Is to wait out, the woman, says, she's pregnant and then suddenly she's out of.

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The job but the piece that we really started to focused on a few years ago.

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Was accommodations for pregnant workers, especially in low-income jobs, jobs that.

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Have manual labor the rule that employers had was that if you were.

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Injured on the job you could get like duty, but if you were pregnant and you.

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Needed like duty, you didn't get the light duty and we felt that was illegal.

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Under the law, the courts had not ruled that way. We push that argument and.

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Ultimately, actually the supreme court agreed with us, so so these a number of.

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The issues with all of these, as you can see, we're doing it through our.

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Enforcement authority right taking in charges investigating them settling them.

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Bringing lawsuits which we have the right to do all enforcement. But when I.

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Came on the commission in 2010, which was the same time as my republican colleague.

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Vicky lipnick came on, we were both appalled and shocked, and maybe we.

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Shouldn't have been shocked, but we were at the extent of harassment that we saw.

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Going on around the country- and it's not just sex based harassment,.

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Most of our 47 percent of our charges of sex-based harassment, we spaced irassman.

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35 percent, when we are going to use this moment, which we are going to with the.

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Focus on sex-based harassment in our country. Shame on us! If we don't also use.

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It as the opportunity to make changes in our workplaces to stop harassment on all.

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Basis because it is happening and the solutions to changing it are the same so.

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Long as we put it in the mix right up front, but it was clear to both me and.

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Vicky that enforcement was not doing an and not that it wasn't important, but we.

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Needed more, we needed a way to do prevention, so what we did in 2015 was.

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Pulled together a task force on the study of harassment in the workplace and.

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We very carefully chose the members of that task force. 16 members, 1/3 lawyers.

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Representing employers either actually management lawyers or working for.

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Employer associations, a third employers representing employees again plaintiff.

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Lawyers, as well as those from associations and a third from academia.

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People who had been studying harassment for years in sociology psychology.

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Organizational behavior etc, because our goal was to create a space for lawyers.

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That did not often talk to each other to think creatively about ways to prevent.

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Harassment before it was to the level of illegal harassment prevent bad conduct.

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Before it reaches the legal standard of being pervasive, so to talk with each.

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Other come up with creative ideas and have that group of lawyers hear from.

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Academics, whom I tell you, lawyers, do not usually talk to academics, so bring them.

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All together, so we could come up with creative ideas and a quote from james.

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Baldwin that I heard towards the end of the process, but we then put in early on.

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And the report was from james baldwin, which was not everything that is faced.

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Can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced, and I will.

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Tell you when we issue that report in june 2016, if you had asked me what the.

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Biggest roadblock was to getting the recommendations out there and.

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Implemented, I would have said getting people to pay attention. Well, guess what.

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People are paying attention now right. That is one of the things in terms of.

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Post weinstein and any number of other people and the meets you move in.

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Now having people's attention well, here are some things our country needs to.

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Face over 60% of women say they have experience. Sex-Based harassment at some.

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Point in their career 60% now most of those women don't even call that sexual.

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Harassment and here's how we know that, in surveys, national surveys that ask.

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Have you experienced sexual harassment at some point in your career, 25 percent.

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Of women say yes, one out of four right without defining.

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Sexual harassment, if the survey lists a set of behaviors and says, have you.

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Experienced any of these behaviors, which is sort of sexually tinged attention or.

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Sexual coercion, 40 percent of women, say yes, so look at the number that aren't.

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Even calling that unwelcome behavior sexual harassment and if the survey also.

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Includes behaviors that are simply sexist right, like sexually crude.

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Behavior in the workplace, pornography or just you know, women don't belong here.

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But the researchers say the put-downs, as well as the commands 60 percent of women.

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Say they've experienced that that's a problem. Here's the other thing to face.

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Most women never file legal charges. Only 15% of women ever come to the eeoc and.

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File a charge- and I will tell you a full third of our charges- include harassment.

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Charges sex as well as other charges, and yet only 15% of people coming forward.

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Years to me, and even more striking and disturbing figure, almost seventy percent.

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Of women never even report internally, they don't use their hr process, they.

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Don't talk to a supervisor, they don't talk to a union steward. They stay silent.

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And they endure the harassment. Well, they downplay it. Oh it's not such a.

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Big deal, they talk to family and friends and if they can, they leave and the.

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Reason they don't report is fear, fear of not being believed, fear of being.

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Blamed we'll just talk about what you were doing in this interaction or.

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Basically, fear of retaliation, professional or social and they're not.

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Wrong because when the surveys ask of those who have reported, have you.

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Experienced retaliation over half of them said yes, so why would you report.

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Can you imagine if a national survey was done three years from now and that.

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Percentage had plummeted of the number of folks who had reported and not been.

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Retaliated against that would create the positive feedback loop that we need as.

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Opposed to the negative feedback loop, we have right now. So the last thing we have.

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To face as a country is that employers for far too long have chosen to deal.

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With what we call in the report, the superstar harasser and what we mean by.

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That is the person of high value in that organization, whether it's because of.

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Money they bring in or fame of visibility. Employers would never been.

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Complaints of harassment lodged against those folks, employers have made the.

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Cost-Benefit analysis that it is better not to bring discipline against that.

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Person, but to fire or pay off the person who complained now by the way, the.

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Research shows that's wrong that long term keeping a toxic worker in the.

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Workplace costs you more in terms of productivity, reputational harm, etc, but.

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That cost-benefit analysis has to change and I think it is beginning to so these.

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Are the things we need to face, but what are we going to do now to change it? Well,.

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Here are three overarching recommendations from the report. One.

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Change: workplace, culture, the common collective understanding of a.

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Workplace has to be that it is not okay to engage in harassment that the person.

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Who's doing it gets looked at askance. Something is said to that person. Hey.

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This is not how we operate here now: it's not easy to change workplace culture, but.

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It is possible for leaders to do that. This is what the research shows. Here's.

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What leaders need to do number one? They need to actually believe that harassment.

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Is wrong and they don't want it in their workplaces.

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Okay, beliefs and values are foundational, maybe for the ones who don't feel it in.

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Their gut yet maybe they're concerned about being on the front page of the new.

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York times or their local newspaper might now help them feel it, but it's.

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Really best, if they feel it too, they have to articulate it do not.

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Underestimate the power of words having, if you have an all staff meeting on.

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Something you know having nothing to do with harassment, and the leader starts by.

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Reinforcing the expectations of the workplace in terms of respect that makes.

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A difference but third, the employees have to feel that the leaders are.

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Authentic leaders say a lot of things. The leaders have to act in a way that.

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The employees believe that they mean what they say, which leads to the second.

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Recommendation hold people accountable. The most important action leaders can.

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Take to demonstrate their authenticity is to hold people accountable, and there.

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Are actually three separate groups of people who have to be held accountable.

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The first, obviously, anyone who has been found to have engaged in harassment.

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After a full, fair, timely investigation to have engaged in harassment has to.

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Experience proportionate discipline, if you have a situation of egregious.

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Conduct and the person gets a slap on the wrist that will send a message very.

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Clearly that the leaders are not authentic, but proportionality is key.

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You I and the report have concerns with the term zero-tolerance policy for this.

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Reason we'd like the fact that you want to communicate that there is zero.

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Tolerance for any unwelcome behavior doesn't have to be egregious yet just.

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Any unwelcome behavior you want to nip it in the bud, but that doesn't mean that.

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Every act of misconduct results in termination because employees will not.

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Only correctly perceive that as an unfair system, it might even chill.

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Reporting because often people don't want their co-worker to be fired, they.

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Just want the conduct to stop so they need to understand. There will be quick.

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Investigation and then proportionate discipline, second group supervisors and.

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Managers who are supposed to respond to reports of harassment, if you ever.

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Supervisor, a manager who trivializes a complaint or dismisses it that person.

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Has to be held accountable if you have hr doing that, hr folks need to be held.

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Accountable, it makes me crazy when I hear people say well, be careful about hr.

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You know they're just protecting the employer and I'm like hello. The leaders.

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Need to say to hr protecting the employer means taking and complaints.

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Seriously and doing something about them, not sweeping it under the rug and the.

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Third group that has to be held accountable. Anyone who engages in.

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Retaliation, that is the only way we're gonna, create that positive feedback loop.

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Anyone who retaliates professionally or socially against someone who is reported.

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Irassman or corroborated harassment in an investigation if they engage in.

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Retaliation, they have to be held accountable and, finally, the third.

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Recommendation have the right policies, procedures and training. Now, if you don't.

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Have leadership and you don't have accountability, it doesn't matter what.

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You have in policies, procedures and training, but.

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If you have leadership and accountability, then those three elements.

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Round out your comprehensive harassment, prevention effort, so let me say a few.

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Words on each the policy policy should be short, clear, easy to understand it.

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Should not be overly legalistic, and when I talk to management lawyers, I say that.

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Like three times employees don't need to know the legal standard of what is.

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Sexual harassment, racial harassment, they need to know here's the conduct that.

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Will not be accepted. Here's what you do if you experience that conduct here's.

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What will happen afterwards and we will make sure there's not retaliation. That's.

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The policy, the procedures for reporting and investigation, they need to be well.

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Resourced so there's actually money to do timely investigations very hard.

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Sometimes, to get leaders to put that money in upfront and it's key the second.

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Thing is, it needs to take people seriously now that doesn't mean when.

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Someone comes with the report that you automatically assume what the person has.

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Said is true, that's what the investigation is for, but it means saying.

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To the person who has come forward, thank you. Thank you for coming forward. If what.

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You say is happening, that is wrong and we will stop it, and here are the next.

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Steps, that's taking someone seriously, that's treating the person with respect.

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And finally, training training is incredibly important, but it's not the.

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Primary effort, certainly not the only effort, it is the effort that people seem.

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To go to first, oh we'll do more training. No training is the capstone effort. If.

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You have leadership and accountability, and a good policy and good procedures.

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Then training is designed to tell people about that and we talked about three.

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Different types of training, one which is sort of more the traditional training we.

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Call a compliance training not because you just do it to comply with the law.

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And check it out, but we got this name from one of our.

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Management, lawyers, who does a lot of training- and he said when he goes in and.

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Starts training he says at the beginning. This is not training to change your mind.

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This is training to keep your job or training not to be disciplined on the.

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Job right, this is what you need to comply with at this workplace, because.

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You are not going to change people's attitudes or beliefs in a two-hour.

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Training, so the person who says well what's wrong with telling susan she.

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Looks sexy in that dress? My wife loves it when I say it and you're like okay, go.

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Home say it: your wife probably need to say two more often, but when you walk in.

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The doors of this workplace- this is: what's okay and not okay. That's the.

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Point of that type of training and then also to explain to people where you go.

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To report what will happen next, but there are two other types of training.

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That we highlight in the report that we really elevated one and almost came up.

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With the other, in terms of the workplace, so the one that we elevated was what's.

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Called work, respectful workplaces training, so the compliance training is.

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Still focused on particular statuses ways: sex religion, lgbt status, etc. Saying.

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These are things we will not accept in this workplace, which is very important.

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Which is why I say: don't: let's: just have sexual harassment training that type of.

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Compliance training should go across the board. Let people understand what's not.

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Going to be okay, but respectful workplaces takes a different approach.

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And simply it's a very skills based training. It creates a sense of.

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Collective incentive to have a fair, respectful workplace and then skills.

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Based in that, if you get a comment or behavior that feels disrespectful to.

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Know how to give feedback that to know how to say something in the.

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Moment and if you get that feedback to know how to respond, I mean we don't do.

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These well as human beings, either of them and there's something about having.

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The employer have trainings that says this is a type of workplace. We want and.

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Here are the skills for doing it. The second type of new type of training is.

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Bystander intervention, training and I love when I hear people talking about.

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This now, because we really found out about this training by what was going on.

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In college campuses and then we highlighted the idea of trying to move.

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This to the workplace, so this is not as common in workplaces, yet respectful.

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Workplaces training. There were any number of vendors who are doing that, but.

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So bystander intervention training also very skills based again, the first piece.

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Of the training create a sense of collective responsibility for.

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Intervening when one sees harassment, people do not like seeing harassment.

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Happening around them, but either they feel it's not their problem or they feel.

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Helpless, they don't know what to do and they're afraid if they do intervene. That.

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They'll be the next target, so this is skills based training. That says here are.

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Some realistic options for intervening and realistic because there are.

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Different power dynamics in a workplace than there were on college campuses and.

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You're all students, let's say so, realistic options, so it can be simply.

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Confronting the person in the moment the person said something an off-color joke.

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And the person right in the moment says you know what I didn't. I didn't.

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Appreciate that right, an off-color racial joke, but it's a white person who.

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Says I didn't appreciate that right, an off-color sexist joke, but it's a man who.

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Says I didn't appreciate that, but of course that requires some power dynamics.

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That are equal right between the folks. It might be not saying anything in the.

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Moment, but going to the person afterwards and saying: can we talk about.

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That, because that made me uncomfortable right, so it's still a direct.

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Intervention, but in a more private setting, it might be simply going to.

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Someone else who can do something about it right if the power dynamics are such.

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That you can't do a direct intervention or it might be simply going to the.

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Person who was the target of the touching that you saw or the comment and.

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Say did that make you uncomfortable and if so, can we talk about how I can help.

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You do something about it. All of these are simple bystander.

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Interventions but people have to feel number one that their leadership wants.

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Them to do that that they will be told. Thank you when they come forward and.

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They have to be protected against retaliation. So here's my feeling about.

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Where we are at the moment right, we are at a moment with regard to harassment. We.

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Can see it, we can feel it, we can hear it. The question is whether we are going to.

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Leverage this moment to create significant and sustainable change.

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That's our challenge and the fact is, we have the attention now of the range of.

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Social actors that we need employers, employees, unions, government agencies,.

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Foundations, the media, the common person on the street. We have the attention now.

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We need to work strategically using the road map that I just described to.

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Actually make change, I think we can do it. So, let's do it. Let's just do it. Thank.

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And you have to look at that clock.

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Oh, no, I think anonymous reporting can be essential now that it has to be framed.

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In a way that people understand the limitations of that, so if you do.

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Something anonymously there's not going to be an investigation. That's.

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Necessarily going to start, I would say that it's definitely worth looking on.

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Our website for a commission a task force when we convene the task force in.

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Zooming in june and her testimony from folks, including two people who have some.

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Very interesting, apps, okay, so one app is for an ombuds person, so you can just.

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Talk to someone through the app explain the situation and get advice about how.

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To proceed without having to go to anyone officially, yet in the.

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Organization and one of the things by the way for reporting processes- that's.

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Very important is that there be multiple places to report. You know not just your.

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Supervisor not necessarily just to hr but various places to report, because.

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Some might feel safer than others. So that's one approach with an ombuds.

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That's totally separate from hr another, which is at the moment limited to.

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Sex-Based harassment so I'd like to see it expanded, but it's more an escrow.

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System, so you can report a case of harassment by someone, so you're naming.

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The person but you're saying anonymous if someone else reports about that same.

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Person then that app will put the two of you together. So then you have some sense.

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Because there is absolutely safety in numbers, but again neither of those.

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Necessarily starts an investigation now, if the employer is the one that's doing.

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That sort of what's called escrow reporting by keeping it in escrow if.

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They get three reports about the same person, even if the folks would then put.

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With each other decide they don't come come forward. The.

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Employer can decide. hmm Maybe I will go, do an investigation of this person's.

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Division and then they're talking to people in that division kineton if they.

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Reassure people about no retaliation: if people are not, they can say that there.

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Were four people who said this? You know in the investigation that they initiated.

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So it's not like the person felt they were coming forward and being the.

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Troublemaker, etc they were being asked. Can you tell me, what's going on then.

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They can go to the person who's, engaging that conduct and again it's.

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Proportionate the message has to be sent to folks. It doesn't have to be egregious.

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Sex-Based harassment or racial harassment or disability-based.

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Harassment for us not to want it in our workplace right. It may not expose us the.

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Employer to legal liability, yet because it's not severe enough, though it hasn't.

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Been happening enough, but we want to stop it before it rises to that level. So.

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If that's the message that sent two employees to say, you will be helping us.

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If you tell us what's happening, that's a completely different feeling. It's like.

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Saying if folks, we want a safe workplace right safe, you know in terms of no.

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Physical harm, I mean, of course, people come forward, they're applauded if they.

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Come forward and say that machine they should be applauded if they come forward.

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And say that machine is now dangerous, which is also by the way, a big issue. We.

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Find is that people come forward, let's say to a supervisor and says I want to.

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Tell you this is happening, but I don't want you to do anything now. If you say.

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That to a co-worker, that's fine! The co-worker has no legal responsibility to.

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Say anything, hopefully, if they're feeling empowered as a bystander they'll.

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Talk about why it could make sense to come forward. You know they can even be.

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The one that comes forward and says it's someone in this division.

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That person doesn't want to come forward, but if you could come forward yourself.

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Hr, whoever else and talk to folks that'd be helpful, but if the person says that.

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To a supervisor or manager that person legally has the responsibility to.

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Investigate now, if it's low-level, they can say to the person here, are some.

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Tools for addressing it directly yourself, let's try that first, if that.

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Works great, but if it's too egregious of conduct they have to say, I have an.

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Obligation to now investigate it's like if you came forward and said well that.

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Machine is faulty, oh, but don't say that I said that because the boss will be.

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Angry you, like you know, other people could get hurt and that's the same thing.

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Here with the rassman, if you're getting harassed, there might be other people getting harassed. We have an obligation to move forward to try to do something.

B

But that's why making sure people aren't retaliated against is so key and it's.

B

Not just what sometimes happens after an investigation after something has.

B

Happened to say, let me know if you have any problems. No, it's I'm gonna come.

B

Forward and check to see if there are any problems, you know the the leadership.

B

The employer has to feel the one being responsible for making sure there's no.

B

B

Yes way and it's so social retaliation right would be the person of who.

B

Harassment has been complained of is still in the job and, let's put a pin in.

B

The question of when someone's still in the job they've been disciplined in some.

B

Way, but no one knows that okay, so let's put a pin in there, so the person is.

B

Still on the job that person had friends right, the person who complained is seen.

B

As the troublemaker is now ostracized, you know things are happening to that.

B

Person and they can be subtle- they can also be pretty blatant, but that's got to.

B

Be something that the person comes forward and says this is what's happening, okay, so this is where I get to holding accountable the people who have.

B

Engaged in retaliation, which means the leadership has to come in if that's.

B

Happening to say, this is not okay in this workplace and if we have evidence.

B

And we'll do an investigation about retaliation if we have evidence we're.

B

Gonna take some action now they're not going to be happy about that, and the.

B

First set of times when that happens, that's not going to be good, but that.

B

Actually does then send a message for the next time and the next time now the.

B

Best is, if you have that's, why start with workplace culture? If you have a.

B

Culture in which it is understood that it helps everyone. When someone comes.

B

Forward with a complaint, then you're less likely to get that social.

B

Retaliation, I've talked a lot to unions and I say to them number one: the union.

B

Steward is like the manager right when that person gets a complaint. They can't.

B

Dismiss it trivialize it, they can't blame the person for complaining about a.

B

Whole union member, they have to be trained to say thank you for coming.

B

Forward and that union steward, that manager is the one that has to say to.

B

Folks, I'm glad this person came forward and it's not about squealing on a.

B

Co-Worker and again, to the extent that it's at low level stuff, so the person.

B

Isn't fired right, but it's just disciplined that can hopefully then you.

B

Know reduce the the sense of anger from the others again. This is not easy. This.

B

Is not happening overnight no way, but it's about starting down the road to.

B

That and reinforcing in trainings before there's any actual situation right in.

B

Training saying this is what we want as a workplace and giving accolades to.

B

Those who respond correctly doesn't just have to be discipline in the.

B

Accountability, but this this is one of the hardest nuts to crack. So often what.

B

Happens is someone engages in egregious conduct, they actually are terminated, but.

B

It's never said, that's what they were fired for. You know and there's a press.

B

Release about had the wonderful service they gave to the company, and you know.

B

Best wishes on their next job. That's not sending a good message and often the.

B

Person is still in the same position. They are disciplined, they might get.

B

Docked some pay or whatever, but that's never told to the person who complained.

B

I talked to hr people and I said: do you tell them what you did and they're like.

B

Oh, my god, no privacy privacy. We just say that we reported we've investigated.

B

We've dealt with it appropriately. Thank you for sharing, I mean it's not gonna,.

B

Feel good to the person- and I say to them: there is no privacy law that stops.

B

You from saying what was done you might want to just tell the person. It's not.

B

Like you have to trumpet it terms of the person's name, but you must show what it.

B

Is that you did, I don't know this is gonna, take a while.

B

To change what I call the standard of care right in.

B

You know, and it's talking to the general counsel's it's talking to the hr people.

B

It's talking to the ceo to say: we need to change the default here. Yes, hr.

B

Usually personnel issues private confidential. I'm all about that. I think.

B

Not on this and then I say, and you need to feel comfortable about your decision.

B

One hr person said well, so we just docked the person's paid for two weeks.

B

And the person comes forward and says: well, they should have been fired.

B

You know after they're told I said well, you should feel comfortable standing.

B

Behind your decision, because if the person should have been fired, you better.

B

Have some good answer, if all you did was stop them two weeks pay, but if you feel.

B

Based on the facts there, that person might feel he should get fired, but he.

B

Shouldn't, that's not what proportionate discipline means and then you stand.

B

Behind that great questions, so one of the things we say, oh sure, so if an.

B

Agency decides that it does want to make some changes. Okay, it starts off what are.

B

The metrics that that agency should use to show that they are in fact moving the.

B

Needle so one of the things we say in the report- and I want to suggest if you.

B

Want to read the report, we spend a lot of time, making it very accessible and.

B

Just google elc harassment report don't even try to navigate a website, go to.

B

Mama google elc harassment report you'll get right to it.

B

And if you do, elc harassment task force you'll get to the page with all of the.

B

Meetings and some very interesting testimony, one of the things we say is.

B

The metrics should not be how many complaints is coming from a particular.

B

Division, because that creates some incentive for manager settle a.

B

Not-So-Subtle to make sure there are complaints, so you actually want to see.

B

An increase in complaints first, before you see the downtick I remember being at.

B

Speaking in a panel- and they did- you know one of those automatic on your.

B

Phone responses to things- and it was always like 200 corporate.

B

Clients, officers, which I had never even known there were such people in.

B

Corporate america but they're actually key people they're the ones that are.

B

Responsible for compliance, usually with financial compliance laws, but they're.

B

Also, the ones that put out the company's code of conduct ethical code of conduct.

B

Which boy we should get in there in terms of an ethical code of conduct.

B

Being no harassment, but the question was: has there been an increase in internal.

B

Reporting in your company, in about a quarter of the folks, maybe a little bit.

B

Over a quarter said yes, and it was like they asked small uptick large uptick.

B

Some of them had small, some of them. You know had more significant and the first.

B

Thing I said when I talked was: congratulations to all of you. Companies.

B

That have seen an uptick, because that means you are communicating a sense of.

B

Safety to folks- and I don't want them ever coming in the eoc I'd like them to.

B

Be reported internally and dealt with internally. So, what's not something is.

B

The uptick in complaints initially you'd like to see an uptick, then ultimately.

B

You'd like to see a downtick from whatever that high was, but the other way.

B

To do it is through climate surveys, cultural assessment surveys. These are.

B

Anonymous surveys goes out to folks can say: have you experienced harassment or.

B

Because the general counsel's don't like when you ask that question you can.

B

Because it feels they might put them at legal risk. Oh there has been harassment.

B

We haven't done something, but you can ask things like if you experienced.

B

Harassment would you know where to go to if you experienced harassment, would you.

B

Know that there are multiple ways to report, would you feel safe in reporting.

B

I mean lots of other questions you can ask and you see that increase going up.

B

That's your metric, the other thing by the way you know making the business.

B

Case too agency heads- and I call it the business.

B

Case because it's still about running your agency, well, they tend to think that.

B

The only cost is the financial costs of defending a lawsuit and paying out money.

B

That's the least of the costs that is one direct financial cost, but much.

B

Higher are the indirect financial costs and its impact on the physical and.

B

Mental health, not just on the target, but the research shows people who see.

B

Harassment going unchecked experience, mental and physical consequences.

B

Resulting in absenteeism, health care costs, reduction in productivity again of.

B

Both the target and folks around them biggest cost job turnover, because if.

B

People can leave they leave and that again is not just the target, but some.

B

Skilled, talented employee not being harassed, but it's like. I don't want to.

B

Hang out here and remember most people don't report, so agencies might be losing.

B

Talented people and never know it was because of harassment and finally,.

B

Reputational harm and reputational harm what's relevant and agency is it can.

B

Stop other talented employees from coming to that agency or that division.

B

For companies it's also, they can lose clients and customers and, of course, huge.

B

Reputational harm if it gets into the media, but even without the media word.

B

Gets out so all of these are indirect costs. So if you start making changes, you.

B

Should hopefully be sitting positive effects on not having absenteeism better.

B

Productivity, less job turnover, better reputation, even if you've never realized.

B

That your problems before was because of unchecked harassment, certainly when.

B

There's a superstore harasser, that's a huge problem. Yep.

B

Yes, so the question is: is there a difference between bullying and.

B

Harassment we made that distinction in our report.

B

Because we decided that, although we were going to be focused on prevention and.

B

Not the legal definition of harassment, we would focus on unwelcome behavior.

B

Based on a protected characteristic, so unwelcome behavior based on sex or waste,.

B

Or religion, and that we weren't going to also cover bullying, because bullying is.

B

Basically, uncivil disrespectful behavior that is uniformly applied to people.

B

Black white men, women, it's just the supervisor, is bullying or a co-worker is.

B

One of the things we discovered, though, which is why we recommend respectful.

B

Workplaces training is, as one researcher said to us, uncivil behavior can be a.

B

Gateway drug to illegal harassment, so if you really want to change the workplace.

B

And to do it in a more positive way, instead of here's, what you should not do.

B

It's a positive here's, the type of workplace we want and that's why this.

B

Skills training is so important because sometimes you're being bullied and you.

B

Don't really know how to come back and say something wait. The person who said.

B

Something totally rude may not have realized how it came out for some people.

B

Right so to know how to take in that feedback. To say, oh thank you. I didn't. I.

B

Didn't realize how that was affecting you now people don't usually say that.

B

Especially if they really are bully so part of the skills, training is if you're.

B

A manager of someone who is bullying to do something about that and also to have.

B

People understand: what's not bullying, okay, to be told. Excuse me this is three.

B

Days late and you never called to tell me that, and that said in a harsh tone.

B

That's not bullying to me. That's management.

B

Okay, now, if you are only harsh with black people and not white people, right.

B

There you've got a problem: oh if you're, giving that feedback in a way. That's.

B

Completely unnecessarily bullying to everyone. That's not good for the.

B

Workplace, but not every time, you're told you're not doing your job is that.

B

Bullying and I think that's important in a respectful workplaces- training to make.

B

Clear so there is a difference, partly because unwelcome behavior based.

B

On those protected characteristics, if it rises to certain level, will be illegal.

B

And there is nothing illegal, unfortunately, or for whatever. There is.

B

Nothing illegal about being a complete total jerk. So there is that distinction.

B

But I think in terms of prevention, it is worth thinking about stopping bullying.

B

And being affirmative about a respectful workplace, yeah good, less question: yes,.

B

What a great question to end on so number one- and this is very easy to get.

B

On our ears on the home, page you'll see gov. We have basically what we've done in.

B

The past year, essentially, we wanted to market by october from the weinstein you.

B

Know blow up whatever and we have our enforcement. We have our outreach.

B

Education prevention and then we have what have we done internally so one we.

B

Revised our policy to match that we have a checklist at the end of the report.

B

Here are the elements of a good policy. I will tell you, you know the policy was.

B

Negotiated over a year and some with the union- and I got it after that- and it was.

B

33 pages and I'm like, have you read the report? Okay, it's supposed to be a simple.

B

Easy-To-Understand, so we now have. We worked on a five page policy that goes.

B

To all the employees, and then we have 25 pages of procedures, it's not that those.

B

Procedures aren't important; they just don't need to be part of the policy.

B

So we did that. Second, we are rolling out the respectful workplaces, training for.

B

All of our employees, so the first thing we did is we had suggested respectful.

B

Workplaces training. We then put our money where our mouth is. An elc doesn't.

B

Have a lot of money, but we contracted with someone to come up with that.

B

Respectful workplaces, training and so that's being rolled out and then we've.

B

Trained our investigators, a three-day training, that's really about them, taking.

B

In the complaints, but to me that's like training, your supervisors and managers.

B

About how to respond, some of those are similar in terms of the training. Have we.

B

Done enough, I don't think so because it's a multi-year project and certainly.

B

When I rotate off in january, I'm gonna have my eyes on the eeoc, seeing what's.

B

Happening so look, it is it's on. All of us right is everything. I've said here.

B

This is about all of you not only in your jobs but as citizens of the world.

B

In terms of getting out in terms of this message, so I am thrilled to have been.

B

Able to talk to all of you, the dc burton.