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From YouTube: Arlington Reads: Viet Thanh Nguyen
Description
As part of the Arlington Public Library’s “Arlington Reads” program, Viet Nguyen, 2016 Pulitzer Prize winning author of "The Sympathizer," joined Library Director Diane Kresh in conversation on May 3 to discuss his writings and the role of fiction in illuminating issues of consequence.
A
Yes,
thank
you.
It's
always
great
to
see
a
terrific
crowd,
and
this
is
our
second
event
this
spring.
Some
of
you
might
have
been
here
a
couple
of
weeks
ago
for
the
elizabeth's
trout.
Conversation
was
really
another
one
of
those
extraordinary
evenings
and
yes,
Kate
and
the
Friends
of
the
library
do
a
tremendous
amount
of
work
on
our
behalf
and
every
penny
that
they
raised
does
indeed
come
back
to
the
library
and
supports
evenings
like
this.
The
summer
reading
and
any
other
kind
of
special
programs
at
the
library
has
so
we
couldn't
do
without
them.
A
Arlington
reads
is
now
in
its
12th
year
of
creating
community
through
reading
and
throughout
the
years
we
have
experienced
together
the
thrill
of
bringing
the
country's
preeminent
authors
to
meet
with
us
in
person
and
talk
about
their
works,
and
tonight
is
no
exception.
I'm
also
delighted
to
be
able
to
announce
to
you
that
our
good
fortune
with
bringing
top-flight
authors
continues,
and
we
have
just
contracted
with
two
authors
for
next
year:
Kathryn
boo,
National
Book,
Award
winner
author
of
behind
the
beautiful
forevers
and
the
Harvard
sociologist,
and
a
couple
of
weeks
ago.
A
Two
very
exciting
authors
writing
about
events.
That
matter,
and
certainly
again
this
evening
is
no
exception.
So
we
close,
we
chose
Arlington,
reads:
theme
this
year:
why
fiction
matters
and
we're
particularly
excited
to
present
both
mr.
out
and
mr.
Newland
this
evening,
I
believe
I
said
when
mr.
out
was
here,
but
it
bears
repeating.
We
can
all
agree
that
over
the
past
year,
truth
and
those
whose
job
it
is
to
unearth
it
have
taken
a
bashing,
so
there's
a
certain
irony
and
are
looking
to
fiction
writers
for
the
illumination
of
what
is
real
tonight.
A
It's
an
honor
to
welcome
to
Arlington
Viet
on
neuen,
author
of
the
sympathizer
and
winner
of
the
2016
Pulitzer
Prize
for
fiction.
In
awarding
that
prize,
the
Pulitzer
committee
called
the
sympathizer
a
profound,
startling
and
beautifully
crafted
debut
novel,
the
story
of
a
man
of
two
minds,
someone
whose
political
beliefs
clashed
with
his
individual
loyalties
in
dialog
with,
but
diametrically
opposed
to
the
narratives
of
the
Vietnam
War
that
it
preceded
it.
A
This
novel
offers
an
important
and
unfamiliar
new
perspective
on
the
war,
that
of
a
conflicted
communist
sympathizer,
an
astonishing
work
that
is
at
once,
a
gripping
spy,
novel
and
astute
exploration
of
extreme
politics
and
a
moving
love
story.
The
book
won
the
American
Library
Association's
andrew
andrew
carnegie
medal
for
excellence
in
fiction
and
the
dayton
literary
Peace
Prize
in
fiction,
the
only
annual
US
literary
award
recognizing
the
power
of
the
written
word
to
promote
peace.
Mr.
neuen
is
also
the
author
of
a
2016
nonfiction
work.
A
Nothing
ever
dies
Vietnam
and
the
memory
of
war
called
a
critical
book
end
to
the
sympathizer,
and
it
was
a
finalist
for
both
the
National
Book
Award
and
the
National
Book
Critics
Circle
Award
for
nonfiction
his
most
recent
work
and
we'll
talk
about
that.
A
little
bit
this
evening
is
the
refugees,
a
collection
of
short
stories,
poignant,
Lee,
dedicated
to
all
refugees
every
where
we
in
Arlington
are
also
home
to
many
refugees
who
fled
the
Vietnam
War
in
the
late
1970's
and
early
1980s,
and
we're
especially
delighted
to
welcome
mr.
A
new
into
our
community
in
2016
Arlington
County
produced
a
28-page
full-color
booklet
entitled
echoes
of
Little
Saigon,
Vietnamese
immigration
and
the
changing
face
of
Arlington.
There
were
copies
available
out
in
the
lobby
earlier
I
hope
many
of
you
were
able
to
pick
one
up.
It's
really
quite
an
extraordinary
achievement.
It
talks
about
the
period
when
Vietnam
refugees
transformed
Arlington's
Clarendon
neighborhood.
How
many
of
you
actually
remember
right?
A
A
The
booklet
was
produced
with
a
nine
thousand
dollar
grant
from
the
Virginia
Foundation
for
the
Humanities,
in
collaboration
with
Arlington
County's,
Cultural,
Affairs,
Division
and
historic
preservation
program
and
representatives
from
those
departments
are
here
with
us
tonight
to
celebrate
not
only
their
achievement
but
Mr
newand
success
with
his
writing.
Along
with
other
archival
research,
the
booklet
features
excerpts
from
oral
histories
interviews
with
members
of
the
Vietnamese
community
and
all
of
those
were
conducted
and
recorded
by
graduate
students
at
Virginia,
Tech
and
they're,
now
available
to
researchers
in
our
own
Center
for
local
history.
A
So
we're
really
excited
about
this
collaborative
project.
We
hope
you
take
the
copy
and
you
enjoy
it,
and
we're
very
interested
in
trying
to
pursue
other
kinds
of
these
stories,
because
the
oral
histories
from
people
who
actually
lived
those
times
is
incredibly
important
not
only
for
us
today,
but
for
those
who
come
after
us
and
want
to
understand
how
and
why
things
happen.
A
Born
in
Vietnam,
the
at
Newton
came
to
the
United
States
with
his
family
as
a
refugee
at
the
age
of
four
after
the
fall
of
Saigon
in
1975,
his
family
first
settled
in
Pennsylvania
and
then
lay
to
San
Jose
California,
where
his
parents
opened
a
Vietnamese
grocery
store.
He
received
a
BA
in
both
English
and
ethnic
studies
and
a
PhD
in
English
from
UC
Berkeley
afterward
moved
to
Los
Angeles
for
a
teaching
position
at
the
University
of
Southern
California,
where
he
is
currently
chair
of
English
and
professor
of
English
and
American
Studies
and
ethnicity.
A
Intended
for
individuals
who
have
already
demonstrated
exceptional
capacity
for
productive
scholarship
or
exceptional
creative
ability
in
the
arts,
and
we
understand
that
this
fellowship
will
enable
him
to
dedicate
himself
to
writing
fiction
full-time
over
the
next
academic
year
and
that
he's
currently
working
on
a
second
novel,
the
committed
which
is
a
sequel
to
the
sympathizer,
so
without
further
delay.
Please
join
me
in
welcoming
mr.
noodle
wonderful,
Thank,
You,
Andre,
lovely.
B
A
Top
that
that
was
a
great
beginning.
Can
you
all
hear
me
alright
we're
going
to
have
a
conversation
up
here?
It
is
being
recorded,
and
then
we
will
turn
the
event
over
to
you
all
to
ask
questions
and
we'll
just
have
some
fun
and
see
where
the
questions
take
us
so
without
without
hesitating
further
I
wanted.
It
I
wanted
to
begin
at
the
beginning,
I
mentioned
in
the
remarks
that
your
family
left
Vietnam
in
1975
during
the
fall
of
Saigon
or
the
liberation.
A
Depending
on
your
point
of
view,
we'll
talk
a
little
bit
about
that.
So
can
you
talk
a
little
bit
about
what
that
experience
was
like
I
know,
you've
referred
to
it
as
a
traumatizing
experience,
and
your
writing
has
helped
you
deal
with
that.
But
can
you
give
us
some
flavor
of
what
that
was
about
well.
B
B
There
were
four
refugee
camps
set
up
throughout
the
country
to
absorb
Vietnamese
refugees,
and
we
ended
up
in
Harrisburg
when
we
resettle
up
in
Harrisburg,
and
what
happened
is
that,
in
order
to
leave
one
of
these
refugee
camps,
you
had
to
have
a
sponsor
and
typically
sponsors
were
taken
entire
family,
so
an
American
family
would
take
a
family
or
a
church
would
take
a
family.
In
our
case,
for
whatever
reason
we
were
broken
up,
my
parents
were
taking
about
one
sponsor.
B
A
I
read
and
read
in
a
number
of
interviews
that
you
draw
a
very
clear
distinction
between
immigrant
and
refugee,
and
yet
we
tend
to
lump
them
all
together
and
and
feel
that
that
experience
is
also
part
of
the
American
Dream.
You
know
you
come
here.
You
start
over.
You
bootstrap
your
way
up.
Can
you
talk
a
little
bit
about
why
that
distinction
is
so
important
to
you?
Well.
B
You
have
to
remember
that
from
1882
to
1965,
the
doors
of
this
country
were
mostly
closed
to
non-white,
immigrants
and
yet
nevertheless,
the
immigrant
is
a
really
important
part
of
American
mythology,
so
that,
even
if
you
don't
like
immigrants,
you
like
the
fact
that
immigrants
want
to
come
to
this
country,
because
that
makes
you
feel
better
about
yourself
as
an
American.
You
know,
of
course
you
will
want
to
come
here
and
take
our
jobs.
You
want
to
take
our
jobs,
you
know,
but
the
the
refugee
is
different.
B
I
think
the
refugee
brings
with
them
the
fear
of
failure
and
contamination,
because
the
refugee
has
come
because
their
country
has
been
destroyed
in
one
way
or
another,
and
Americans
don't
like
to
think
that
that
could
happen
here
in
the
United
States
as
well.
So,
for
example,
Hurricane
Katrina.
When
that
happened,
all
these
people
were
displaced.
Some
of
the
media
called
these
folks.
B
Refugees
and
President
Bush
said
it's
unamerican
to
call
these
people
refugees
and
possibly
for
the
only
time
in
his
life,
Jesse
Jackson
agreed
with
George
Bush
and
said
it's
racist
to
call
african-americans
refugees.
So
there
is
something
in
the
American
psyche
that
thinks
it's
just
impossible
for
an
American
to
become
a
refugee,
although
it
is
possible
for
refugees
to
become
Americans
and
in
that
way
be
elevated.
One
step
closer
to.
C
A
A
B
I
left
in
1975
and
I
didn't
go
back
until
2002
27
years
and
my
parents
actually
went
back
in
the
early
90s,
so
the
United
States
had
embargoed
Vietnam
from
1975
to
1994
and
in
1994
we
established
I
think
it
was
political
relations
and
95
economic
relations,
and
so
I'm
parents
took
advantage
of
that
to
go
back
to
Vietnam
for
the
first
time,
and
you
have
to
understand
my
my
my
parents
had
were
refugees
twice.
They
were
born
in
North
Vietnam.
B
When
the
country
was
divided
in
1954,
they
fled
from
North
Vietnam
to
South
Vietnam,
along
with
800,000
other
Catholics,
who
feared
communist
persecution.
My
mother
left
with
her
family,
my
father,
left
by
himself,
so
my
father
did
not
see
his
family
for
40
years.
My
mother
didn't
see
her
family
for
20
years,
so
they
went
back
in
the
early
90s
and
they
went
probably
back
when
I
was
in
schools.
I
couldn't
go
with
them.
B
My
father,
my
parents,
entire
time
had
been
growing
up,
had
been
saying
to
me:
we're
100%,
Vietnamese,
okay,
after
the
second
time
in
Vietnam,
they
come
back.
My
dad
says
over
Thanksgiving
we're
Americans
down
and
he
I
think
like,
and
my
parents
like
many
other
overseas
Vietnamese
are
Vietnamese
Americans
or
Vietnamese.
Refugees
really
has
an
inbuilt
relationship
with
returning
to
Vietnam
because
they
feared
what
would
happen
to
them
when
they
went
back.
B
They
feared
the
Communists
and,
to
some
extent
I
think
they
don't
know
they
feared
their
families,
but
they
feared
entanglement
emotional,
entanglements
and
financial
entanglements
with
their
families,
so
that
rubbed
off
on
me.
So
it
took
me
a
long
time
to
get
the
will
to
go
back
to
Vietnam
in
2002.
I
went
back
as
a
tourist
for
two
weeks.
I
had
great
time.
B
If
you're
a
tourist,
that's
fantastic
in
Vietnam,
you
have
a
great
time
and
then
from
2002
to
2012,
I
went
back
five
or
six
times
to
do.
Research,
I
was
there
for
about
a
year
all
together
and
the
more
I
got
the
more
times.
I
went
back,
the
more
I
delved
into
the
country,
the
more
complicated
it
began.
I
thought
a
good
time,
I
still
partied,
and
what
the
nightclubs
and
other
kind
of
stuff
but
I
am
to
see.
B
Many
more
layers
of
the
country
and
many
more
of
the
complexities
and
ambiguities
and
I
went
back
also
to
do
research
for
nothing
ever
dies,
which
meant
that
you
know
most
of
you
as
tourists.
You
go
back
to
eat
the
good
food
and
go
to
the
beaches
and
stuff
I
was
going
back
to
see
graveyards
and
war,
memorials
and
battlefields,
and
so
I
got
a
no
no
another
perception
of
what
was
happening
beneath
the
surface
in
Vietnam,
because
tourists
when
they
go
to
Vietnam,
they
get
the
good
side
besides
getting
cheated.
B
We
because
we
fought
this
war,
you
know
and
I
think
maybe
the
Vietnamese
will
hate
us
and
I'll
almost
uniformly
Americans,
say
wow,
you
know
the
devious
people
are
so
lovely.
They
forgiving
Americans,
not
the
same
experience
when
you're
Vietnamese
American
going
back,
because
it's
much
much
more
tense
situation.
You
know
because
we
left
as
the
losers
as
the
as
the
traitors
as
the
puppets.
This
is
what
loses
the
terms
are
being
used
to
describe
us
and
then
we
left
and
a
lot
of
the
Vietnamese
who
are
relatives?
B
Who
stayed
will
look
at
us
and
think
you're
just
a
fat,
wealthy
Americans
you
got
lucky
and
for
us
we
had
to
stay
here
and
endure
ration
economy
and
very
difficult
circumstances
and
communist
persecution.
So
for
us
for
the
overseas
getting
to
return
it's
much
more
ambivalent.
You
know
you
have
to
think
of
it.
This
was
a
civil
war
in
addition
to
Revolutionary,
War
and
Americans
have
not
resolved
their
civil
war
after
a
hundred
years
hundred
thirty
years
for
years,
and
we
have
it
after
forty
years
either,
but.
A
B
I
found
homeless,
I
think
I
have
homes,
you
know,
but
when
I
think
of
home,
what
I
think
of
home
when
I
think
of
home
I,
think
of
growing
up
in
San
Jose
in
the
1970s,
the
1980s
and
feeling
like
I,
was
a
spy
in
my
parents
household
because
they
were
Vietnamese
and
I
was
becoming
Americanized.
Were
these
strange,
Vietnamese
people?
Why
are
we
eating
the
strange
food
and
then
I
would
go
out
into
the
American
world
and
I
think
I'm,
a
Vietnamese
person?
B
B
But
we
was
weird
you
know,
and
so
home
was
always
yes,
I
home
was
home
in
the
conventional
sense,
but
home
was
always
also
a
place
of
discomfort,
and
there
was
always
friction
between
these
two
senses
of
home
and
that
has
never
gone
away,
so
I
feel
like
I
have
homes,
but
for
me,
at
home
it's
very
complex
and
double
it
kind
of
phenomenon
and
I
think
that
most
people
don't
want
to
have
that
sensation.
Most
people
want
to
have
the
home
where
they
feel
at
home
right.
B
You
know
but
I
think
as
a
writer
when
you
feel
at
home
you're
dead.
You
know
it's
good
for
a
writer
to
feel
uncomfortable.
I
mean
it's
for
me.
I
have
to
cultivate
that
I
have
to
cultivate
being
that
refugee
and
feeling
uncomfortable
and
feeling
like
a
spy,
so
that
I
can
happen
thing
to
write
about
okay,.
A
Have
no
doubt
all
right,
so
the
theme
of
duality
appearing
one
way
really
being
another
way
runs
throughout
the
book.
Even
the
sympathizer
he's
a
sympathizer
because
he's
really
Vietcong
but
he's
infiltrated
the
south
but
he's
actually
a
sympathetic
person.
He
loves
his
mother.
He
is
very
loyal
to
his
childhood
friends.
He's
not
he's
neither
good
nor
bad
he's
used
the
word
ambiguous
a
minute
ago.
So
how
did
that
come
about
that
theme
of
duality?
How
did
you
choose
to
to
write
the
story
in
that
way?
Well,.
B
I
think,
on
the
one
hand,
duality
is
universal,
I,
think
all
of
us
at
one
point
or
another
in
our
lives,
have
felt
that
we
don't
fit
in
somewhere
and
that
we
have
to
wear
a
mask
in
order
to
fit
in
with
our
family
or
work
or
whatever
that's
universal
right.
But
if
you
are
a
refugee
or
a
minority
or
someone
who's
displaced
and
but
when
I
say
minority
I
don't
just
mean
a
racial
racial
minority
I
mean
like
you
could
be
disabled.
B
You
could
be
gay
whatever
that
condition
of
duality
is
greatly
exaggerated
and
WB
Dubois,
summed
it
up
wonderfully
in
1903,
I,
think
or
1899
in
the
souls
of
black
flow
when
talking
about
the
condition
of
African,
Americans
or
Negroes.
When
he
said
you
know
to
be
black
in
this
country.
To
be
Negro
in
this
country
is
to
always
look
at
yourself
through
two
sets
of
eyes,
your
own
eyes
and
the
eyes
of
white
people
or
dominant
society
and
I.
B
Think
that
is
a
condition
of
duality
that
I
grew
up
with
the
much
more
exaggerated
sense
that
I
was
living
two
lives
and
my
parents
weren't
aware
of
my
American
life
and
my
American
friends,
weren't
aware
of
my
Vietnamese
life,
and
that
that
was
very
evident
to
me,
not
just
in
my
own
circumstance,
but
in
thinking
about
what
it
meant
to
be
Vietnamese
in
American
society,
because
I
was
very
precocious.
I
was
reading
and
I
was
watching.
A
lot
of
movies.
B
I
was
very
curious
about
what
it
brought
me
to
this
country,
even
as
a
kid.
So
by
ten
to
ten
years
or
ten
years
old
or
eleven
years
old
I
was
watching
Apocalypse
Now,
for
example,
on
the
VCR.
You
know
and
I
watched
almost
every
movie
that
Hollywood
made
about
the
Vietnam
War,
which
is
an
exercise
I.
B
Don't
recommend
anybody
now:
okay,
because
special
is
a
Vietnamese
person
because
of
the
Vietnamese
person
I
rapidly
realized
that
the
only
place
for
a
Vietnamese
person
in
these
movies
was
to
be
silent
to
be
shot
to
be
killed
to
be
raped,
to
be
rescued.
And
then,
if
we
had
anything
to
say
at
all,
we
were
to
say
thank
you
and
that
just
wasn't
my
experience
of
being
Vietnamese,
because
I
could
look
around
my
family
and
the
Vietnamese
refugee
community
in
San
Jose,
and
we
had
a
multiplet
multiplicity
of
stories
that
were
so
much
more
complex.
B
They
were
as
complex
as
the
stories
Americans
were
telling
themselves
about
anything,
but
American
society
didn't
know
any
of
that
kind
of
stuff.
You
know,
and
that
was
sort
of
the
beginning.
My
beginning,
as
a
writer.
My
sense
that
my
understanding
of
the
American
story
in
the
Vietnamese
story
was
radically
different
than
the
American
understanding
of
it,
and
there
was
going
to
be
my
task
to
somehow
tell
these
stories
myself.
So.
A
But
one
of
the
things
that
was
that
was
interesting
to
me
was
I
I
watched,
Apocalypse
Now
actually
in
the
theater,
because
that's
how
old,
I
am
and
and
I
remember.
The
first
movie
that
I
ever
saw
that
told
a
slightly
different
story
about
Vietnam
was
something
called
casualties
of
war
where
it's
the
Brian
De
Palma
film.
That
was
based
on
a
true
incident
where,
as
an
act
of
vengeance,
a
group
of
soldiers
kidnap,
a
Vietnamese
girl,
take
her
off
brutal,
sir
and
ultimately
murder.
Her
and
I
thought
wow.
A
That's
kind
of
interesting
because
up
to
that
point,
most
the
movies
were
sort
of
more
heroic.
The
the
interventionist
was
appropriate
and
good,
even
though
the
country
was
still
very
divided
about
how
it
felt
about
the
war
itself
and
how
it
was
waged
and
soldiers
coming
home
so
but
you've
written
a
lot
about
about
movies
and
the
soft
power
of
movies.
Can
you
talk
a
little
bit
more
about
about
that?
Yeah.
B
And
I
think
the
whelming.
Basically,
what
I
say
is
that
the
Vietnam
War
is
something
that
Americans
lost
in
fact,
but
have
won
in
memory
now.
This
is
like
the
one,
the
weirdest,
but
maybe
the
only
circumstance
in
history
where
the
losers
get
to
write
history
instead
of
the
victors,
so
I
mean
if
you
go,
but
if
you
go
to
Vietnam.
B
Obviously
the
victors
write
the
history
in
Vietnam,
but
unless
you
go
to
Vietnam
your
heart
you're
never
going
to
encounter
that,
because
the
Vietnamese
can't
export
their
memories,
except
on
the
art
house
circuit
and
even
there
we
know
people
barely
watch
it,
but
because
of
American
soft
power
because
of
American
cultural
industry,
which
is
basically
the
unofficial
Ministry
of
propaganda
for
this
country.
American
memories
become
global
memories.
This
is
a
privilege
that
Americans
take
for
granted.
You
know
that
Apocalypse
Now
is
something
that
everybody
watches
you
go
to.
B
Vietnam
and
people
watch
American
movies
about
the
Vietnam
War
in
Vietnam,
okay
and
anywhere
I
go
when
I
was
researching,
nothing
ever
dies
and
people
have
learned
that
that
I
was
running
about
this
war.
They
were
like.
Have
you
seen?
Apocalypse
Now,
and
so
that
is
what
we're
up
against
right,
that
the
Hollywood
is
the
equivalent
of
the
Pentagon.
You
know
the
American
capacity
to
kill
three
million
people
overseas
and
only
to
lose
58,000
American
lives
is
matched
by
the
American
capacity
to
send
its
movies
all
over
the
world.
B
It's
the
same
technology,
it's
the
same
ideology
and
you
don't
need
an
official
Ministry
of
propaganda,
because
the
people
in
Hollywood
accept
the
ideology
that
the
people
in
the
Pentagon
do.
That's
how
avi
ology
works
in
this
country
and
so
for
me
to
write
this
novel
was
in
my
own
small
way.
My
attempt
to
both
reveal
this
in
operation
and
to
take
revenge
on
Hollywood.
B
You
know
and
I
know
that
in
a
losing
battle,
because
this
novel
is
only
going
to
be
read
by
so
many
people
and
I
can
only
do
so
much
in
terms
of
it
can
affect
this
kind
of
change,
but
to
even
say
that
much
out
loud
seems
to
take
people
by
surprise.
The
other
thing
Americans
take
this
so
much
for
granted
that
they
haven't
even
thought
about
the
fact
that
Hollywood
exercises
this
much
power
and
it's
gears
are
geared
with
the
military-industrial
complex,
is
a
part
of
the
military-industrial
complex.
B
A
I
would
worry
yeah
how
it
work.
The
book
is
also
full
of
really
really
great
quotes
the
best
kind
of
truths,
the
one
that
means
at
least
two
things.
It's
always
better
to
admire
the
best
among
our
foes,
rather
than
the
worst
among
our
friends,
which
is
very
like
sort
of
keep
your
friends
close,
but
your
enemies
closer.
That
kind
of
wariness
that
maybe
comes
from
the
refugee
experience
and
then
one
of
my
favorites.
A
B
Oh
yeah
I
think
that's
the
privilege
of
being
an
imperial
power.
Obviously
many
Americans
wouldn't
agree
with
being
called
an
imperial
power,
but
you
are,
or
we
are,
I
am
I'm
a
part
of
it
now
too
and
we're
a
different
kind
of
empire.
You
know
we're
not
the
kind
of
empire
that
has
to
take
over
countries,
although
we
have
taken
over
countries
we're
the
kind
of
empire
that
worked
with
power
through
building
800
plus
military
bases
in
foreign
countries,
which
we
would
never
allow
to
happen
in
our
own
country.
Now.
B
B
Think
of
myself
as
someone
who
is
writing
about
the
Vietnam
War
and
does
not
retreat
from
writing
about
the
Vietnam
War,
but
I
need
to
recast
the
terms,
because
I
only
wrote
about
the
Vietnam
War
I'd
be
that
meeting
these
guy,
who
writes
about
the
Vietnam
War,
which
is
what
people
expect
from
someone
like
me,
but
for
me
to
write
the
sympathizer
and
nothing
ever
dies.
It's
a
very
conscious
project
to
say:
what's
really
important
is
not
just
the
Vietnam
War
from
an
American
perspective.
B
What's
really
important
is
to
acknowledge
that
the
Vietnam
War
is
just
one
episode
in
150
years
of
an
American
effort
to
expand
the
United
States
from
the
13
colonies
to
California
and
then
across
the
Pacific
to
get
to
China,
which
was
always
the
goal
you
know
and
Vietnam
was
simply
one
part
of
that
goal:
to
expand
American
capitalism
and
protect
global
capitalism.
Okay,
and
that's
my
understanding
of
war
and
that's
what
I
write
about
my
understanding
of
war
is
that
we
live
in
the
forever
war.
We
live
in
a
military-industrial
complex.
B
A
B
I
mean
it's
like
I
think
that
even
each
of
us,
you
know
we
have
multiple
identities
and
I,
bring
this
up
because
often
times
you
know
as
I'll
be
asked.
Are
you
Vietnamese?
Are
you
American?
Are
you
a
Vietnamese
writer
or
an
Asian
American
writer,
an
American
writer
and
I?
Don't
retreat
from
any
of
those
things
I'm
all
those
things
all
and
all
we're
all
many
things
at
the
same
time,
and
this
novel
is
many
things
at
the
same
times.
B
A
The
other
great
thing
about
its
many
things.
It's
five
story.
It's
you
know
it's
a
love
story.
It's
many.
Some
of
the
material
is
based
on
true
characters,
or
at
least
people
who
were
want
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
that
that
the
not
necessarily
the
model
for
the
spy.
But
there
were
people
in
Vietnam
who
rose
to
high
levels
being
spies.
We
talked
about
that's
actually.
B
Obviously,
there
was
a
movie
like
Apocalypse
Now
that
actually
really
was
a
plot
to
try
to
take
back
Vietnam
run
by
former
South
Vietnamese
soldiers,
and
it
was
really
run
out
of
Thailand
and
there
were
rumors
that
the
first
Vietnamese
international
chain
was
started
in
order
to
fund
the
revolution,
and
you
there
really,
the
you
know,
one
of
the
most
famous
Vietnamese
generals
really
did
open
a
liquor
store
in
Southern
California
and
was
rumored
to
have
connections
to
this.
To
this
counter
revolutionary
effort-
and
many
of
the
major
figures
were
inspired
like
that:
Vietnamese
generals.
B
Figure-
and
you
know
Lana,
the
singer
is
based
on
Linda
Jiang
died
the
Vietnamese
Madonna
of
the
Vietnamese.
You
know
pop
culture
industry,
so
it
was
like
a
lot
of
fun
to
write
the
novel,
because
I
could
draw
on
all
these
things
that
I
was
growing
up
with,
but
I
was
reading
about
or
that
I
had
heard
about.
What
is
fictional
is
the
inner
life
of
the
protagonist.
B
Know
there
are
now
accounts
of
what
life
was
like
in
the
re-education
camps
by
survivors
of
these
camps,
and
so
some
of
the
bare-bones
details
of
what
the
camp
was
like
and
accounted
for,
but
actually
what
you
get
to,
that
camp
sequence
in
the
last
quarter
of
the
novel
most
of
it
is
made
up
because
I
actually
was
not
interested
in
the
specificity
of
the
camp.
Like
I
wasn't
interested
in
like
how
do
you
get
there
where?
Where
is
it?
How
does
the
camp
operate?
B
That
kind
of
stuff,
because
that
sequence
at
the
end
is
really
crucial
to
the
novel,
because,
even
though
it
takes
place
in
a
material
environment
of
physical
setting,
it's
all
within
its
own
mind?
Really,
it
may
be
it's
being
interrogated
and
it's
not
physical.
It's
not
like
they're,
torturing,
it
they're
not
like
breaking
on
the
rack
or
something
it's
all
psychological.
It's
like
sleep,
sleep,
deprivation
right
and
that
was
really
crucial,
because
I
wanted
that
camp
seem
to
be
surreal.
B
It's
revolutionaries,
turning
on
each
other,
and
so
there
I
was
not
that
interested
in
all
the
details
that
I
learned
about
about
how
these
guys,
we
know
were
physically
broken
through
harsh
labor
and
all
that
other
kind
of
stuff
I
was
much
more
interested
in
trying
to
make
up
what
was
been
happening
in
his
own
mind,
and
that
was
both
very
difficult.
As
you
said,
you
know
it's
difficult
to
read
it's
difficult
to
write,
but
it
was
a
lot
of
fun
right
because
it
was
a
technical
challenge.
C
B
A
B
Nothing
is
more
precious
and
independence
and
freedom
is
a
very
famous
slogan.
It
was
coined
by
Ho
Chi
Minh
and
it
was
used
to
motivate
the
North
Vietnamese
during
their
war,
and
you
know
literally,
you
know
hundreds
of
thousands
of
people
dying
for
that
slogan
and
they
really
believed
in
it
and
then
was
Vietnamese
really
believed
that
that's
what
they
were
doing,
because
that
was
the
propaganda
that
they
were
being
fed,
that
they
were
being
told.
B
You
know,
South
Vietnam
is
being
occupied
by
these
foreigners
and
our
South
Vietnamese
brothers
and
sisters
are
living
under
slavery
and
we
have
to
go
and
liberate
them
and
people.
You
know,
sacrificed
everything
to
pull
that
off,
then
they
win
and
then
lo
and
behold,
it's
not
what
they
were
told
they
go,
they
get
to
South
Vietnam
and
they
think.
Well,
it's
actually
not
that
bad.
You
know
they
got
their
flush
toilets
if
they
have
radios.
B
You
know
there
was
kind
of
her
stuff
and
then
South
and
then
liberated
Vietnam,
the
North
Vietnamese,
according
to
all
counts.
Most
of
most
most
people
really
lived
under
high
conditions
of
idealism,
revolutionary
idealism
and
then
the
reality
after
the
war
was
that
they
got
disillusioned,
everybody
had
sacrificed
so
much
and
then
they
won
and
then
they
became
capitalists.
B
Look.
This
is
what
we.
This
is
what
three
million
people
died
for
racino
we
threw
off
capitalism
and
what
had
become
capitalist,
and
so,
when
I
got
there
in
2002,
the
country
had
had
had
had
officially
changed
its
economic
program
that
had
gone
from
economic
collectivism
to
opening
the
doors
to
global
capitalism
in
1980,
1980
1986,
so
by
2002,
economic
renovation
was
well
underway,
and
one
of
the
jokes
I
heard
was
the
joke.
That
became
the
joke
in
this
novel.
B
B
This
makes
perfect
sense,
because
a
whole
novel
is
at
least
partially
a
joke,
and
it's
about
a
deserted
e
of
what
happens
under
ideologically
extreme
situations,
and
this
is
the
most
absurd
joke
of
all
the
joke
that
the
joke
is
about
nothing.
You
know
about
the
multiple
meanings
or
do
at
least
a
dual
meaning
right,
nothing
right
and
he's
forced
to
confront
that,
but
nothingness
of
revolution
right.
You.
A
A
A
B
Or
third
grade
I
think
I
was
a
refugee
child
and
I
was
going
to
this
public
elementary
school
in
downtown
San
Jose
and
there
was,
and
and
one
of
our
one
of
the
things
that
we
did
and
here
I
have
to
say,
bless
the
librarians
okay,
because
we
as
little
kids
had
the
opportunity
to
write
our
own
books.
So
I
wrote
my
own
book.
A
picture
book
you
know
drew
the
pictures,
wrote
the
words
bound.
The
book
did
the
cover
it
was
called
Lester.
B
The
cat
was
about
a
city
cat
who
got
sick
and
tired
of
city
life
and
fled
to
this
country.
Even
back
then
I
understood
basic
mythology.
Urban
rural
alienation,
the
ghosts
of
the
country
he
finds
love
with
a
girl
cat
would
have
been
really
radical
if
it
was
a
boy
cat,
but
I
wasn't
that
far
ahead
and
he
stays
in
the
countryside.
You
know
and
I
got
a
little
prize
for
that
and
then
I
got
I
got.
We
got
taken
to
the
big
public
library
and
I.
B
My
parents
were
refugee
shopkeepers
working
there
12
to
14
hours
a
day
there
weren't.
They
were
going
to
take
me
to
a
book
awards
ceremony.
So
the
school
librarian
took
me
Wow
weekend.
You
know
I
I,
don't
remember
her
name,
but
I.
Remember
her
face
very
vivid.
They
shipped
a
little
bit
like
you,
you
know
so,
and
I
thought
and
I
and
I
and
I
and
I
that's
true.
It's
red,
literally
you're
killing
me
it's
good
as
true.
B
This
is
why,
whenever
I
go
to
I
meet
librarians
I,
you
know
it's
really
true.
I
mean
librarians,
have
big
big
supporters
of
this
book,
but
they,
but
they
also
made
a
huge
difference
to
me
when
I
was
a
kid
and
so
the
book
won
a
prize
and
I
put
it
in
my
little
mind
at
that
time.
This
idea
that
books
could
be
cool.
Writing
could
be
cool,
you
know,
and
so
and
in
the
library
with
my
second
home,
because
our
parents
were
working
all
the
time.
I
was
a
latchkey
kid
and
so
by
10.
B
No
I
mean
serious.
Why
not
I
mean
I,
don't
totally
understand
it
as
a
president,
as
a
parent
myself,
I'm,
not
I'm
shocked,
that's
a
public
library
would
have
pornography,
but
it
did
so.
There
was
no
boundaries
between
the
children's
section
and
young
adult
and
pornography
and
literally
I
would
go
and
I
would
find
these
paperbacks
and
they
would
be
like
you
know,
hard-boiled
detective
fiction
with
softcore
pornography
or
I.
B
Remember
this
too
Mac
Olin
executioner,
yeah
Mac
Boland
was
a
Special
Forces
Green
Beret,
who
comes
back
after
the
Mafia,
wipes
out
his
family
and
turns
his
sister
into
a
prostitute,
and
he
goes
back
to
take
revenge
on
the
Mafia
I
read
this
book.
I
was
like
maybe
10
I
go
to
I'm
serious
I,
know
that,
because
my
brother
was
still
at
home
in
he
was
seven
years
older.
They
hadn't
gone
to
college,
yet
I
go
home
and
say
hey,
what's
the
prostitute?
B
A
All
right,
so
the
the
refugees
is
the
new
collection
of
short
stories
and
we're
going
to
ask
our
guests
to
read
a
little
bit
from
it
in
a
few
minutes.
But
I
was
struck.
I've
some
I
read
something
that
the
very
first
story.
Black-Eyed
woman,
was
something
that
took
you
17
years
and
50
drafts
to
write
and
I'm
just
interested
in
like
wow.
B
I'm
like
tearing
up
because
no
I
mean
it
was
a
very,
very,
very,
very
difficult
story
to
write.
I
was
so
I
got
my
PhD
in
97
and
then
I
got
a
job
at
USC,
and
so
the
summer
of
97
I
was
in
LA.
Getting
ready
and
I
always
wanted
to
be
a
writer
and
I've
been
writing
through
undergraduate
and
graduate
years
and
I
thought.
Okay
before
my
career
begins,
I'm
going
to
spend
the
summer
writing
a
short
story.
B
Collection
and
I
did
I
wrote
a
very
bad
short
story
collection
that
summer
and
one
of
the
stories
was
what
eventually
became
black
eyed
winning
dot.
So
that
was
that
was
when
I
first
put
the
words
down
for
this
book
and
I
had
no
idea.
It
wouldn't
be
until
2014
that
I
would
finish
this
book
and
if
I
had
known
that,
yeah.
C
B
I
would
never
like
no
way
because
I
couldn't
even
imagine
seventeen
years
at
that
point.
In
my
life,
I
was
26
and
but
50
drafts,
and
because
that
you
know
that
story
almost
broke
me
as
a
writer
and
because
it
didn't
break
me.
As
a
writer,
I
became
a
writer
and
I
learned
how
to
write
by
writing
the
stories
in
this
collection
and
especially
its
writing.
B
That
story,
because
I
took
a
few
writing
workshops,
but
I
never
did
an
MFA
didn't
have
any
mentors
or
teachers,
so
I
just
learned
by
doing,
which
is
one
reason
why
it
took
so
long
and
I
think
for
short
stories.
The
thing
is
that
I
didn't
know
what
I
was
doing.
I
didn't
understand,
like
the
part
of
the
short
story
and
the
one
thing
that
I
probably
did
not
understand
most
about
a
short
story
was
that
less
is
more
because
if
you
read
the
sympathizer,
it's
all
about
more
is
more.
B
B
Yeah,
but
you
know
what
I
think
it
so
in
some
ways
running
running
that
novel
felt
to
me
like,
as
if
I
found
in
my
natural
form
in
the
novel,
but
I
think
that
was
only
really
because-
and
it
is
my
natural
form,
I-
think
it's
really
only
because
I
spent
17
years
struggling
with
a
short
story.
If
I
start
off
writing
a
novel,
I
probably
have
spent
17
years
writing
a
novel
too.
You.
D
B
It
was
like
The
Karate
Kid
wax
on
wax
off
like
why
am
I
doing
this
for
17
years
and
then
all
of
a
sudden
I
get
the
real
test
and
I
could
do
it.
You
know
it
was
a
very
magical
moment
where
the
17
years
of
preparation
of
suffering
and
gotten
me
ready
for
that
big
moment
against
or
with
the
greatest
challenge
of
my
life.
There's.
A
B
Well,
I
mean
ghosts,
are
literally
important
in
Vietnamese
culture
and
apparently
in
American
culture,
to
mean
America
lot
of
Americans
believe
in
ghosts
as
well,
but
ghosts
function,
I
think
a
little
bit
differently
in
Vietnamese
culture.
There's
certainly
the
ghosts
that
you're
scared
of
the
ghosts
are
coming
back
to
take
revenge
for
whatever
reason.
But
Vietnamese
people
also
believe
that
ghosts
appear,
benevolently
like
they
will
die,
and
then
they
will
appear
to
say
goodbye.
Okay
and
I've
heard
those
stories
fairly
often
and
they're
not
threatening
ghosts.
B
They
just
you
know
they
just
appear
to
to
to
to
to
say
farewell
and
I.
Think
Vietnamese
people
find
that
reassuring,
because
that's
a
signal
that
there's
really
an
afterlife
and
the
ghost
is
on
his
or
her
way
there
and
will
eventually
join
this
person
and
I
wanted
to
do
that
in
this
story,
I
wanted
to
write
about
benevolent
ghost,
rather
than
scary
ghosts.
B
The
ghost
has
died
because
some
injustice
has
happened
now
in
the
American
version.
It's
because
something
happened
last
summer
in
the
sorority
house,
okay,
but
there
is
a
political
and
historical
dimension
to
this
so
beloved.
It's
about
a
ghost
and
all
of
you
that
goes
to
injustice
as
slavery.
You
know
we're
you
know,
Americans
haven't
dealt
with
slavery
right
and
likewise
the
ghost
in
this
story
is
a
manifestation
that
history
is
not
finished.
B
A
You
mentioned
a
minute
ago
that
you
didn't
do
an
MFA
program
and
and
workshops,
and
you
wrote
a
piece
in
The,
New,
York
Times,
not
not
too
long
ago,
where
you
were
fairly
critical
of
the
Iowa
workshop
kind
of
experience
can
talk
a
little
bit
about
that.
You
had
issues
of
you
know
it's
literature
is
power
and
how
they,
those
workshops,
are
particularly
unfavorable
to
minorities.
People
of
color
women
right
well.
B
B
Believe
in
that
like
I,
mean
I,
write,
I,
don't
know
how
many
of
you
know
what
the
writing
writing
workshop
is
it's
the
master
writer
and
a
dozen
or
15
students
and
the
master
writers
stay
silent,
while
a
dozen
15
2015
scene
is
going
up
on
another
student
okay
now
for
some
people,
this
workshop
works
really
well
as
a
method
and
that's
great
for
me.
It
did
it
because
I
thought
I'm
saying
this
much
money
to
hear
from
from
you
this
undergraduate
I,
don't
respect.
B
I
want
to
I,
want
to
speak
to
the
master,
and
so
for
me
the
issue
with
the
writing
workshop
versus
pedagogical,
like.
Why
is
this
the
only
pedagogical
model
offered?
Let's
do
it
by
variety
of
different
things.
But
the
second
issue
is
that
in
this
writing
workshop,
because
so
much
of
it
is
run
through
unquestioned
assumptions,
all
the
other
prejudices
and
assumptions
that
we
carry
with
us
as
people
are
brought
into
the
workshop
as
well
and
in
the
workshop,
certain
kinds
of
aesthetic
notions
are
offered,
as
universals
show.
B
Don't
tell
is
what
I
took
I
and
people
Disko
around
saying
show,
don't
tell
she'll,
don't
tell
why
did
you
say
it
as
it's
like
the
first
commandment
when
it's
just
an
aesthetic
notion
that
has
a
particular
historical
grounding
in
the
United
States
of
the
contemporary
moment?
Show
don't
tell,
is
the
dominant
aesthetic
of
contemporary
American
fiction
I,
don't
like
contemporary
American
fiction?
It
got
like
some
of
it,
but
a
lot
of
it
is
just
middlebrow
literary
realism
that
reiterates
dominant
ideological
thinking
in
the
United
States.
B
Going
back
to
that
notion
that
Hollywood
and
it's
part
of
a
military-industrial
complex,
okay,
the
people
in
Hollywood,
don't
know
that
they're
part
of
the
military-industrial
complex
they
you
know,
Michael
Bay
makes
Transformers
seven
or
eight
or
whatever
it
is,
and
it's
just
entertainment
when
it's
actually
just
another
function
of
the
military-industrial
complex.
Likewise,
people
out
of
the
writing
workshop,
some
of
them
produce
great
art,
and
a
lot
of
them
are
just
producing
another
novel
that
reader
berates,
middlebrow,
literary
realism
about
can
of
survivors
or
whatever
I
mean
cancer
is
important.
B
Yes,
you
know,
but
it's
not
the
only
thing
or
divorce
or
whatever
that
we
have
to
talk
about
so
show.
Don't
tell
was
not
useful
for
me
as
someone
who
wanted
to
talk
about
ideology
and
politics
because
show
don't
tell
makes
it
really
difficult
to
talk
about
ideology
and
politics,
and
history
and
theory
and
philosophy,
because
how
do
you
show
don't
tell
about
philosophy?
I
mean
what
like
COD
the
consign
Marx.
They
told
you
a
lot
of
stuff,
you
know,
and
so
then,
that
that's
why
a
lot
of
contemporary
American
fiction
is
not
philosophical.
B
A
B
Know
I
mean
like
I'm
kind
of
a
an
idiosyncratic
polemicist,
you
know
so
I
would
never
say
do
what
I
did
because
I
took
like
20
years
to
do
what
I
did
and
the
thing
with
the
MFA
workshop,
just
like
the
PhD.
That
I
did
is
that
it's
a
part
of
an
institution,
I
spent
seven
I
spent
five
years
getting
a
PhD
and
it
is
institutionalized
me
in
both
good
and
bad
ways.
You
know
the
good
way
is
that
I
got
a
job
and
I
know.
B
I
know
the
rhetoric
of
academia
and
I
know
how
to
survive
and
all
that
kind
of
stuff.
But
it
institutionalized
me,
as
it
did
many
others,
because
it
meant
after
five
years
I
couldn't
speak,
a
language
that
anybody
else
understood.
Besides
my
fellow
academics,
okay
and
you
cannot
get,
you
cannot
get
an
academics
to
understand
this,
like
what
we
don't
speak.
Clearly,
what
are
you
talking
about
because
they
want
to
speak
to
each
other
right.
B
So
likewise,
if
you
get
an
MFA,
it's
good
and
bad
you're,
a
part
of
the
institution,
which
means
you
can
get
a
job
in
another
institution
that
has
MFA's,
and
you
don't
understand
why,
if
you
produce
a
certain
kind
of
literary
novel,
nobody
besides
500
people
might
want
to
read
the
book.
Okay,
but
you'll
get
a
job
and
you'll
get
recognition.
B
B
A
I
was
just
curious
because
you
were,
you,
obviously
have
been
successful,
and
this
other
model
is
so
overwhelming.
Probably
part
of
the
military
industrial
complex
regardless,
why
fiction
matters
is
our?
Is
our
theme
for
Arlington
reads:
Elizabeth
Strout
spoke
to
that
a
couple
of
weeks
ago.
What
why
do
you
think
fiction
matters
when.
B
B
In
another
store
window,
I
saw
a
sign,
and
it
said
another
American
driven
out
of
business
by
the
Vietnamese
and
even
at
that
age,
I
understood
this
was
a
story
and
it
was
a
story
like
it
was
a
story
that
didn't
include
my
parents
and
it
didn't
include
me,
or
it
included
us
to
the
extent
that
and
wanted
to
get
rid
of
us
to
exclude
us.
So
I
said
I
understood
it
was
a
very
powerful
story
and
it
took
me
a
long
time
to
try
to
understand
that
story
to
make
sense
out
of
it.
B
E
B
It
took
me
about
five
years
to
write
this
page
and
a
half.
It
would
take
me
about
two
or
three
minutes
and
you
as
well
just
remember
that
black
eyed
women
fame
would
strike
someone,
usually
the
kind
that
healthy
minded
people
would
not
wish
upon
themselves,
such
as
being
kidnapped
and
kept
prisoner
for
years
suffering,
humiliation
in
a
sex
scandal
or
surviving
something
typically
fatal.
New
survivors
needed
someone
to
help
write
their
memoirs
and
their
agents
might
eventually
come
across
me.
At
least
your
name's,
not
on
anything.
B
My
mother
once
said
when
I
mentioned
that
I
would
not
mind
being
thanked
in
the
acknowledgments.
She
said.
Let
me
tell
you
a
story.
It
would
be
the
first
time.
I
heard
this
story,
but
not
the
last
in
our
homeland
she
went
on.
There
was
a
reporter
who
said
the
government
tortured
the
people
in
prison.
So
the
government
does
to
him
exactly
what
he
said.
They
did
to
others.
They
send
them
away
and
no
one
ever
hears.
No
one
ever
sees
him
again.
B
That's
what
happens
to
writers
who
put
their
names
on
things
by
the
time
Victor
de
voto
chose
me.
I
had
resigned
myself
to
being
one
of
those
writers
whose
names
did
not
appear
on
book
covers
his
agent
had
given
him
a
book
that
I
had
ghostwritten
it's
a
sensible
author,
the
father
of
a
boy
who
had
shot
and
killed
several
people
at
his
school
I
identify
with
the
father's
guilt
Victor
said
to
me
he
was
a
sole
survivor
of
an
airplane
crash,
173
others
having
perished,
including
his
wife
and
children.
B
What
was
left
of
him
appeared
on
all
the
talk
shows
his
body
there,
but
not
much
else.
The
voice
was
a
soft
monotone
and
the
eyes
on
the
occasions
they
looked
up
seemed
to
hold
within
them
the
silhouettes
of
mournful
people.
His
publisher
said
that
it
was
urgent
that
he
finished
his
story,
while
audiences
still
remember
the
tragedy,
and
this
was
my
preoccupation
on
the
day
my
dead
brother
returned
to
me.
B
My
mother
woke
me.
While
it
was
still
dark
outside
and
said,
don't
be
afraid
through
my
open
door,
the
light
from
the
hallway
stung,
why
would
I
be
afraid
when
she
said
my
brother's
name?
I
did
not
think
of
my
brother.
He
had
died
long
ago.
I
closed
my
eyes
and
said:
I
did
not
know
anyone
by
that
name,
but
she
persisted
he's
here
to
see
you.
B
She
said
shipping
off
my
covers
and
tugging
at
me
until
I
rose
eyes,
half
shut,
she
was
63
moderately
forgetful
and
when
she
led
me
to
the
living
room
and
cried
out,
I
was
not
surprised.
He
was
right
here.
She
said
kneeling
by
her
floral
armchair
as
she
felt
the
carpet
it's
when
she
crawled
to
the
front
door
and
her
cotton
pajamas.
Following
the
trail
when
I
touched
the
carpet,
it
was
damn
for
a
moment.
I
twitch,
dim
belief
and
the
silence
of
the
house
at
4:00
in
the
morning
felt
ominous.
B
Then
I
noticed
a
sound
of
rain
water
in
the
gutters
and
the
fear
that
had
gripped
my
neck
relaxed
its
hold.
My
mother
must
have
opened
the
door
gotten
drenched,
then
come
back
inside
an
out
buyer
as
she
crouched
next
to
the
door,
her
hand
on
the
knob
and
said
you're
imagining
things
I
know
what
I
saw
brushing
my
hand
off
her
shoulders.
She
stood
up
anger,
illuminating
her
dark
eyes.
He
walked.
He
talked
he
wanted
to
see
you
then,
where
is
he
mad?
I,
don't
see
anyone?
B
C
B
Basically,
so
his
work
is
very
good
in
that
regard
of
introducing
that
that
part
of
Vietnamese
culture
to
to
to
foreigners,
you
might
also
want
to
look
at
the
work
of
to
whom,
who
is
the
the
person
that
the
Vietnamese
government
doesn't
want
you
to
read
so
much
so
that
they
banished
her
to
France
so
novels,
like
paradise
of
the
blind
and
novel
without
a
name
and
memories
of
a
pure
spring,
I
found
to
be
very
illuminating
because
they
talk
about
the
other
side
of
leaving
this
culture.
That's
not
so
pleasant.
B
B
What
did
I
think
of
the
moving
coming
home,
Jon,
Voight,
Jane,
Fonda,
I,
actually
I
teach
a
course
on
the
Vietnam.
War
and
I
show
a
clip
from
that
movie,
because
it's
one
of
the
few
American
movies
that
acknowledges
that
war
isn't
something
some
point,
something
that
simply
fought
over
there.
But
it's
something
that
comes
back
at
home
and
that
war
involves
the
homefront.
B
War
involves
spouses
and
partners
and
children
and
all
these
kinds
of
things,
and
so
that
it's
a
film
that
that
begins
to
show
us
that
the
the
cost
of
war
are
not
just
on
the
Battlefront,
but
that
soldiers
bear
these
costs
when
they
become
home
and
Families
bear
these
costs
as
well,
and
that
when
we
go
to
look
at
the
Vietnam
Veterans
Memorial
and
we
see
58,000,
Plus
American
names
on
that
wall,
but
the
soldiers
who
died.
We
forget
all
those
soldiers
who
died
after
the
war.
Agent
Orange
suicide
homelessness.
All
these
all
these
things.
B
A
Know
when
you
were
describing
the
character
of
man
at
the
end
who,
whose
face
whose
body
had
been
horribly
disfigured
and
napalm
I
guess
was,
was
I
couldn't
get
the
whole
Robert
Duvall
the
smell
of
napalm
in
the
morning
out
of
my
head,
so
it
just
was
an
interesting
twist
on
that
particular
line.
We
have
some
questions
from
the
folks
out
in
the
lobby.
I'll
read
one
of
them
in
the
sympathizer.
What's
the
significance
of
the
fact
that
so
few
characters
names
are
revealed
well,.
B
No
one
else
would
be
like
what
about
what's
his
name?
How
do
you
spell
his
name?
I
can't
even
remember
people
can't
even
remember
my
name,
much
less
ten
Vietnamese
name
I
can't
remember
ten
Vietnamese
names
you
take
me
to
I
went
home
for
the
first
time,
I
like
to
meet
all
my
relatives
like
25
people
coming
out.
B
B
Strangely,
my
parents,
who
said
we're
100%
Vietnamese,
changed
their
names.
You
know
it's
another
Joseph
and
Linda,
two
Americans
now
kids
meet
the
other
great
many
people.
You
know
they're
still
there
they
have
their
Vietnamese.
You
know
and
I
have
the
opportunity
to
change
my
name
into
an
American
name
when
I
got
my
citizenship
and
strangely
enough
me
that
the
Vietnamese
American
Americanized
person
could
not
change
his
now.
You
know
like
this.
B
B
B
That's
close
to
what
fences
you
won
a
Pulitzer
Prize
so
and
then
I
was
like
this
sucks
because
I'm
in
a
hotel
room
and
my
wife
and
son
are
in
California-
and
this
is
like
one
of
the
most
important
moments
of
my
life
and
I
was
like
what
I
was
I
sent
out
on
Facebook,
that
this
is
a
wonderful
moment
of
my
life
I'm,
stuck
in
a
hotel
room
in
Cambridge.
What
should
I
do
and
and
a
friend
of
mine
emailed
me
back.
B
He
said
you
should
listen
to
champagne
life
by
neo
and
that's
what
I
did,
and
so
it
was
a
mixture
of
like
shocked
and
dancing
by
myself
in
this
hotel
room,
which
I
will
not
reenact
for
you
in
the
present
and
then
having
to
go
out
two
hours
late
an
hour
later.
To
do
a
book
event.
Now
the
Harvard,
bookstore
and
literally
I
knew
that
my
value
had
changed
because
people
looked
at
me
differently.
Actually,
no
I
mean
what
happened
was
the
first
thing
I
had
to
do.
D
B
Know
and
all
of
a
sudden
I
was
just
they
were
just
going
to
have
a
drink
with
via
and
then
I
was
like.
Oh
it's
via
to
Pulitzer
Prize
winner,
all
the
sudden,
and
so
it
was
shock.
It
was
numbness,
it
was
weirdness
and
it
took
several
months
for
that
to
wear
off
before
it
finally
sunk
in
that
I
won
the
Pulitzer,
Prize
and
I
better.
Do
something
with
this,
and
it's
not
just
about
me.
You
know,
and
that
was
very,
very
important
to
me.
B
You
know
because
I'm
not
a
believer
in
this
idea
of
individualism
which
dominates
in
American
literature.
You
know
like
American.
Literature
is
a
competition
of
individuals
and
for
me
my
entry
into
literature
was
that
it
could
save
my
life.
I
mean,
like
my
parents,
were
killing
themselves
working
in
this
store
and
I
was
going
to
the
library
to
read
to
save
my
life
and
then
I
went
to
Berkeley
and
I
became
an
English
major,
but
that
was
just
for
fun.
I
mean
there
was
no
way.
B
B
And
so
it
was
by
becoming
an
ethnic
studies
major,
and
seeing
that
you
know,
literature
really
did
save
lives
and
had
a
political
purpose
and
that
you
know
literature
connected
me
to
collectivity
solidarities
that
meant
that
I
could
become
a
scholar
and
a
writer
so
winning
the
Pulitzer
Prize.
The
reason
why
it
was
important
to
me:
well,
yes,
I-
could
cash
out,
but
also
I
could
use
it
to
work
through
this
mission
of
the
collective
and
the
Solidarity
of
using
literature
as
translation.
A
B
C
E
So
much
good
question
your
central
character
and
the
sympathizers
identifies
himself
and
characterizes
themselves
as
a
bastard.
Did
you
mean
that
sir
do
symbolize
precisely
the
impact
of
colonialism
where
your
own
native
culture
does
not
quite
accept
you,
and
also
the
foreign
culture
that
has
dominated
an
own
view?
Also,
that's
not
really
accept
Authority.
Is
that,
therefore,
a
satirical
sort
of
symbolism.
B
That's
a
complicated
question
to
answer
before
you
ask
your
second
question,
because
I'm
going
to
forget
the
question
was
your
care,
my
pick,
my
protagonist
is
a
bastard
in
the
knob
called
caught
a
bastard.
Is
that
symbolic
of
colonialism,
everything
else?
And
yes,
you
know
I
mean
I
wrote
the
refugees
and
it
was
mostly
about
Vietnamese
people,
even
though
they're
not
beating
these
people
in
there
and
I
was
already
pushing
against
this
idea
that,
because
I
was
Vietnamese,
I
had
to
write
about
Vietnamese
people.
B
It
was
very
important
to
me
to
write
about
Vietnamese
people,
but
I
also
knew
that
Vietnamese
people.
It
was
important
for
me
to
write
about
getting
these
people
because
we've
been
subjected
to
racism
here
and
exclusion
at
home
from
the
victorious
communists,
but
no
one
getting
these
people
very
well.
I
also
knew
that
beatings.
People
are
racists
themselves.
So,
sadly,
ironically,
the
people
against
whom
racism
is
done
are
also
racist
themselves
and
I.
What
that
meant
was
that
simply
to
up
your
Vietnamese
right,
you're
anything
yeah,
that's
right!
B
You
know,
you
know,
I
love,
mom
and
dad
with
their
racist.
You
know
yeah,
and
so
what
that
meant
was
that
it
was
not
enough
to
simply
affirm
Vietnamese
people
that
I
wanted
to
create
a
character
who
would
make
Vietnamese
people
question
their
own
racism
and
if
you
know
anything
about
mixed-race
people
in
Vietnam,
you
know
that
they're
subject
to
intense
racism
in
Vietnam,
and
so
there
was
a
pragmatic
function
to
that,
but
obviously,
to
make
my
character
a
bastard,
a
mixed-race
person
was
to
make
very
literal.
B
The
whole
East
is
East
and
West
is
West
and
never
the
twain
shall
meet
so
then,
logically,
I
could
exploit
all
of
these
cultural
differences
in
conflicts
that
were
going
to
come
up.
It
also
made
possible
for
me
to
acknowledge
this
very
old
and
tired
metaphor
that
colonialism
is
raped
both
at
the
national
level
and
at
the
very
immediate
personal
level.
Colonialism
is
raped
and
my
character
is
born
from
at
least
molestation.
You
know
French
priests,
underage
Vietnamese,
girl
and
then,
finally,
again,
what
it
made
possible
for
me
was
to
constantly
undermine
assumptions
about
identity.
B
You
know
that
we
could
that
we
are
100
percent
Vietnamese,
for
example.
What
my
dad
always
told
me
I
thought
that's
wrong,
because
if
I
go
back
far
enough,
if
I
do
a
DNA
test,
I'm
not
going
to
find
some
Chinese
people
in
there
somewhere,
you
know-
and
that
was
also
part
of
the
function
of
making
a
mixed
race
character
to
the.
E
B
B
But
if
I
just
told
you
what
that,
what
that
stuff
is,
but
let's
get
the
professor,
you
know
telling
them
writing
a
bad
novel,
so
I
had
to
use
storytelling
I
had
to
figure
out
the
right
storytelling
mechanism
in
order
to
make
these
points
plausible
and
make
people
accept
the
point,
even
as
I'm
saying
things
like
I
say
stuff
in
this
novel,
but
if
you're
an
American
reader,
it's
like
really
outrageous,
apparently
from
what
Americans
are
telling
me.
How
what?
How
would
your
kid
you're
saying
Hollywood
is?
B
D
Do
me
I'm
sorry,
I
did
come
in
here
to
about
a
fan,
but
I
was
wondering.
Are
there
anybody
you
know?
Are
there
any
characters
have
the
character
to
quit
what
any
characters
any
chapters
real-life
like
the
characters,
main
character
sympathizer
in
NBA
agent
for
eg
agent,
who
is
different
to
accompany
me
darling
and
with
a
psychotic
fall
I
was
with
them
connect
out
the
conspiring
with
cops
he
needs
an
exile.
Are
there?
Is
that
the
next,
the
talent
fictional
ordeal,
an
engagement?
Ladies
well.
B
I
mean
stopped,
went
on
the
Vietnamese
spa
and
came
here
in
the
50s.
That
was
a
loose
inspiration
for
this
novel,
but
he
went
back
to
Vietnam
and
he
never
left
Vietnam.
You
know
now
whether
or
not
the
repeating
these
fives
who
actually
came
in
1975
inspired
here
now.
If
you
asked
the
Vietnamese
refugee
community
they're
like
yeah
and
they're
still
here,
you
know
and
and
they
believe
that
that
it
happened
that
may
very
well
be
true.
B
Via
me,
people
are
racist,
but
also
pragmatic,
ok,
so
I
mean
I
think
there
have
been
there's.
There
are
many
reasons
in
Vietnamese
history
because
of
the
French
and
whatever,
and
they
were
they
were
incorporated
in
a
Vietnamese
Society
and
we're
part
of
the
Vietnamese
military,
and
things
like
that.
You
know:
ok,
fair
enough.
Yes,.
C
B
Is
my
writing
been
accepted
by
the
Vietnamese
community
in
the
US
and
are
there
plans
to
translate
it
into
Vietnamese,
and
you
know
I
think
when
the
novel
came
out
in
Vietnamese
Americans,
who
read
it
in
English
and
give
me
people
in
Vietnam
read
and
in
English
the
reception
was
uniformly
positive,
at
least
what
was
said
to
me.
If
you
know
anything
about
Vietnamese
people,
what
is
that
to
you
to
your
face
is
different
than
what
it
said
elsewhere.
Ok,
ok!
Well,
she
says
it's
been
good.
Ok,.
A
B
B
Some
of
them
have
told
me
it's
just
it's,
either
very
moving
for
them
or
very
difficult
for
them,
because
it
really
can
all
these
traumatic
feelings
that
they've
had
and
they
didn't
want
to
confront
and
then
Vietnamese
people
who
haven't
read
the
book
because
they
only
read
it
in
the
knees.
You
know
I
think
they're,
maybe
there's
more
trepidation,
because
they
hear
that
the
novel
is
about
a
communist
spy.
What
you
know
we
can't
have
a
novel
about
a
common,
a
spy
they're.
All
commies
are
bad.
B
You
know,
then
the
novel
wins,
the
Pulitzer,
Prize
and
apparently
all
is
forgiven.
You
know
because
now
I'm
pretty
sure
most
Vietnamese
people
have
not
read
my
book,
but
they
all
want
to
take
a
selfie
with
me
now
my
dad,
when
the
novel
is
public.
Okay,
you
published
a
novel.
Whatever
I
win,
the
Pulitzer,
Prize
and
I
did
not
call
home.
B
You
know
because
I
think
when
I
was
growing
up,
you
did
not
go
home
and
say:
hey
I
got
an
A,
you
only
went
home
and
if
you
got
a
b-plus
or
an
a-minus,
and
you
had
to
say
that
so
I
won
the
Pulitzer
Prize
and
literally
it
did
not
occur
to
me
to
call
my
parents
cause
I
would
have
you
know,
of
course
I
know.
So
my
dad
called
me
like
two
days
later,
I'm
on
the
road
said
the
relatives
in
Vietnam
called
you
want
the
Pulitzer
Prize
and
he
was
so
happy.
B
His
voice
was
giddy
with
happiness.
You
have
to
understand
my
dad.
He
does
not
get
giddy
what's
happening,
so
that
was
like
the
Vietnamese
reaction
you
know
now.
So
then
we
sold
the
translation
rights
to
all
three
of
my
books.
That
I
felt
you
in
the
last
three
years,
all
about
Vietnam
and
apparently
these
two
publishers
think
we
can
get
this
done.
You
know,
but
okay
come
back
for
a
book
tour
I'm.
Not
let
me
wait
first
until
you
published
it
before
I
decide
to
go
back
for
a
book
tour.
B
B
There's
many
complications,
because
the
language
is
a
very
complicated
issue:
the
dialect
differences,
the
language
changed
in
1975
and
so
I'm
going
to
happen
as
a
manuscript
vetted
by
my
own
translator.
To
make
sure
we
get
these
nuances
right
and
they
didn't
cut
out
the
squid
episode,
for
example
stuff
like
that
and
and
then
then
we
have
to
submit
it
for
for
censorship
in
Vietnam.
Like
you
know,
the
government
censorship
office
is
a
different
thing
than
the
publishers,
so
it's
really
very
complicated.
I'm.
A
B
A
B
B
The
first
time
a
girlfriend
said:
I
love
you
to
me
when
I
was
like
17.
My
reaction
was
exactly
what
just
happened
right
now.
I
don't
know
it
was
like
I
did
not
grow
up
in
an
environment
where
my
parents
said
stuff
like
I
love
you
it's
not
good.
Many
people,
don't
say
this
kind
of
stuff
matter
fact
lack
sue.
Another
Vietnamese,
American
author
wrote
a
book
called
I
love
yous
are
for
white
people,
okay,
so
love
it's
a
very
different
thing,
and
so
for
me,
when
I
was
growing
up,
love
was
not
about
romance.
B
It
was
like
sacrifice
and
devotion
and
taking
care
of
a
family
and
all
that
kind
of
stuff,
and
so
then
learning
how
to
say,
I
love
you
in
a
romantic
sense
was
a
very
difficult
thing
for
me
and
a
lot
of
it
was
just
wrapped
up
in
lust.
I
lost
you,
okay,
that's
good!
So
that's
a
part
of
it,
but
I
think
that
the
the
sympathizer
maybe
reveals
that,
because
romantic
love
in
this
novel
is
not
an
important
issue.
Right
he's
not
really
in
romantic
love
with
anybody.
B
As
he
says,
it's
like
yeah
a
month
has
passed
it's
about
time
for
me
to
fall
in
love
again
at
some
point.
He
says
that
in
the
novel
right
and
so
for
him,
love
and
lust
are
the
same
thing,
and
this
is
actually
very
central
to
the
novel
because,
as
I
discovered
as
I
wrote,
a
novel,
my
protagonist
doesn't
know
how
to
love
people
love
women,
he
doesn't
have
a
love
women.
He
knows
how
to
love
his
mother.
He
doesn't
know
how
to
love
women,
and
that
is
actually
fundamental
to
his
character.
B
He
doesn't
know
it.
He
thinks
what
he's
about
is
revolution,
politics
ideology.
But
what
he's
also
about
is
love
unacknowledged,
incapacity
for
love
and
the
objectification
of
women
and
I
discovered
that
about
him
as
I
wrote
about
him
that
wasn't
really
intentional,
and
that
is
all
those
those
two
things
are
related
because
he's
so
obsessed
with
revolution
and
ideology
that
he
doesn't
understand.
That
revolution
is
a
complete.
This
kind
of
revolution
and
most
revolutions
are
completely
masculinist
heteronormative
and
to
use
an
academic
term
discourses.
B
And
so
that's
something
that
needs
to
be
worked
out
in
the
sequel
to
this
novel
but
committed
where
he
does
have
to
try
to
figure
out
what
is
loved
me
and
how
to
how.
How
do
I
relate
to
women
outside
of
objectifying
them.
He
doesn't
know
how
to
do
that
in
this
novel
and
I
for
a
long
time
didn't
know
how
to
do
that
either.
B
I
went
to
an
all-boys
high
school
okay
so
that
I
place
everything
on
that,
but
I
think
also
for
me
personally.
It's
like
I
also
learned
a
lot
more
about
love
after
I
became
a
father
just
to
you
know,
just
to
say
that
you
know
like
I
had
a
son
I'm
like
oh,
my
god,
I
love
this
person,
and
that
is
that
is
been
as
I've
been
enormously
emotionally
meaningful.
For
me,
as
a
revelation
about
about
Who
I
am,
and
what
this
emotion
is.
That's
great.