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From YouTube: Richard Rothstein on "The Color of Law"
Description
As part of Arlington Public Library's 2018 Arlington Reads program, "Habitats for Inhumanity", Richard Rothstein speaks on his new book, "The Color of Law: A Forgotten History of How Our Government Segregated America". This program was sponsored by the Friends of the Arlington Public Library and recorded on May 3 2018.
A
Good
evening
hi,
can
everyone
hear
me
good
evening
everyone
and
welcome
to
Arlington
reeds?
My
name
is
Kate
summers
on
the
president
of
the
Friends
of
the
Arlington
Library
Board
and,
on
behalf
of
the
board
I'd
like
to
express
my
thanks
to
all
of
you
for
attending
tonight
and
continuing
this
incredibly
important
discussion
for
those
of
you
who
attended
our
recent
spring
book
sale
held
just
last
month
in
April
I'd,
also
like
to
give
you
a
note
of
thanks,
I
announced
this
last
week,
but
I'm
particularly
proud,
so
I'm
going
to
repeat
it
again.
A
The
numbers
are
in.
We
made
over
eighty
eight
thousand
dollars.
Yes,
eighty
eight
thousand
dollars
during
our
spring
book
sale.
So
if
you
stop
by
and
bought
a
book,
thank
you
all
of
that.
Money
comes
back
to
the
library,
comes
back
to
support
important
programs
like
the
one
we're
hosting
tonight.
So
while
we're
on
that
topic,
I
want
to
make
another
impassioned
plea.
A
If
you've
got
books
at
home
records,
DVDs
movies
games,
things
like
that,
please
donate
them
to
us
we're
experiencing
a
little
bit
of
a
kind
of
a
shortfall
in
donations,
partly
due
to
the
construction
we
have
here
at
Central.
So
if
you've
got
books
that
you've
already
enjoyed,
you
want
to
pass
them
on
to
others
for
enjoyment.
Please
pass
them
to
us
donate
to
the
Friends
of
the
lie.
Arlington
library
will
give
you
a
tax
receipt
for
the
donation
and
then
we'll
sell
them
at
our
upcoming
book
sales.
B
Thank
you
and
thank
you
Kate
for
that
introduction.
I
often
refer
to
the
book
sale
as
Arlington's
longest-running
recycling
program.
So
but
it
does,
it
does
a
tremendous
amount
of
good
for
the
library
Kate's
right.
Every
penny
goes
back
to
support
programs
like
these,
but
also
some
of
our
collections
are
our
collections.
Budget
could
always
use
a
boost
and
the
friends
are
there
to
help
us.
So
thank
you
and
if
you're
interested
in
joining
the
friends,
they
have
a
booth
outside
the
auditorium.
B
It
doesn't
cost
very
much
and
it
does
a
whole
lot
of
good
and
we
appreciate
your
support.
We're
also
supported
tonight
by
one
pick.
Excuse
me:
I
always
get
this
wrong.
One
more
page
books,
they've
been
our
partner
for
the
last
couple
of
years
of
Arlington.
Reads:
programs
if
you
want
to
pick
up
a
book,
they're
happy
to
oblige,
because
we'll
have
a
book
signing
at
the
at
the
end
of
the
program.
So
please
take
a
moment
to
silence
all
of
your
electronic
devices.
I
think
I
turned
mine
off.
B
If
you
hear
the
theme
song
to
Law,
&,
Order
I
didn't
Arlington
reads
is
now
in
its
13th
year
of
building
community
through
reading
and
conversation,
and
throughout
the
years
we've
brought
this
country's
preeminent
writers
to
meet
with
us
in
person
and
talk
about
their
books
and
the
works
that
have
shed
light
on
some
of
the
most
pressing
topics
of
the
day.
We've
talked
about
immigration.
We've
talked
about
black
lives
matter.
We
talked
about
war,
the
role
fiction
plays
in
presenting
the
truth
and
this
year's
theme
habitats
for
inhumanity.
B
B
For
this
series,
we've
been
fortunate
to
present
authors,
who
have
combined
immersion
and
investigated
journalism
techniques
to
write
books
that
deepen
our
understanding
of
and
compassion
for
people
who
live
in
poverty.
On
the
edges
of
our
collective
awareness,
last
Thursday
we
hosted
a
panel
discussion
and
community
dialogue
sponsored
by
the
community
gress
network,
and
that
was
a
good
tie
in
for
this
evening
and
I.
B
Don't
know
how
many
of
you
were
here
two
weeks
ago
for
the
Catherine
Buch
conversation
behind
the
beautiful
forevers,
a
more
global
perspective,
but
a
really
great
conversation
about
issues
that
matter
tonight.
However,
we're
hosting
Richard
Rothstein,
who
is
a
Distinguished
Fellow
of
the
Economic
Policy
Institute,
and
a
senior
fellow
emeritus
at
the
Thurgood
Marshall
Institute
of
the
n-double
a-c-p
s
Legal
Defense
Fund,
and
the
Haas
Institute
at
the
University
of
California
Berkeley,
widely
seen
as
a
leading
authority
on
US
housing
policy.
Mr.
B
Rothstein
joins
us
tonight
to
discuss
his
landmark
book,
the
color
of
law,
a
forgotten
history
of
how
our
government
segregated
America
mr.
Rothstein,
will
speak
for
about
45
minutes
and
then
we'll
open
it
up
for
questions,
and
we
will
have
runners
in
the
room
passing
you
microphones,
because
we
are
taping
this
evening.
B
Example,
this
powerful
and
disturbing
history
exposes
how
American
government
deliberately
imposed
racial
segregation
on
metropolitan
areas
nationwide
that
was
from
the
New
York
Times
Book
Review
another
another
review.
Yet
even
scholars
familiar
with
this
field
will
find
Rothstein's
work,
illuminating
for
its
breadth
of
inquiry
and
inspiring
for
its
passion
and
was
from
the
Chronicle
of
Higher,
Education
and
finally,
Rothstein's
work
should
make
everyone
all
across
the
political
spectrum,
reconsider
what
it
is.
B
C
C
We
understood
as
a
nation
that
racial
segregation
was
wrong.
It
was
inconsistent
with
a
constitutional
democracy.
It
was
immoral.
We
understood
it
was
harmful
for
both
African
Americans
and
for
whites,
and
we
understood
that
it
was
unconstitutional,
and
yet,
despite
these
understandings,
we
have
left
untouched
the
biggest
segregation
of
all,
and
that
is
that
every
residential
community
in
this
country,
every
metropolitan
area
in
this
country
is
residentially,
segregated,
I've
lived
in
many
of
them.
C
Everyone
that
I've
lived
in
has
had
clearly
defined
neighborhoods,
where
whites
or
mostly
whites,
lived
clearly
defined
neighborhoods,
where
African,
Americans
or
mostly
African
Americans
lived,
and
all
of
us
accept
this
as
part
of
the
natural
environment.
We
think
it's
too
bad.
You
nobody's
happy
about
it,
but
we
accept
it
as
an
inevitable
part
of
life
in
this
country,
not
something
that
we
try
to
do
anything
about
and
have
failed.
We've
never
tried
to
do
anything
about
it.
We
accept
it.
We
think
it's
an
inevitable
result
of
impersonal
natural
forces.
C
Now
it's
not
difficult
I
think
to
understand
why
we've
accepted
it,
despite
our
understanding
that
racial
segregation
is
wrong
and
harmful
and
immoral
and
incompatible
with
the
constitutional
democracy,
it's
clearly
more
difficult
to
desegregate
neighborhoods
than
it
is
to
desegregate
water,
fountains
or
buses
or
lunch
counters.
If
we
desegregate
water,
fountains
or
buses
or
lunch
counters
the
next
day,
you
can
either
then
lunch
counter.
You
want
or
sit
anywhere.
C
You
want
on
a
bus
or
drink
from
any
water
fountain,
but
if
we
abolish
segregation
in
neighborhoods
the
next
day,
things
wouldn't
look
much
different,
and
so,
in
order
to
rationalize
our
refusal,
our
inability,
our
reluctance
to
challenge
residential
segregation,
we've
adopted
the
national
myth,
a
myth
that
justifies
to
ourselves
our
inaction
and
that
myth
we
gave
a
name
to,
and
the
name
is
de
facto
segregation.
We've
told
ourselves
that
the
segregation
of
the
neighborhoods
is
different
from
all
the
other
kinds
of
segregation
that
we
addressed
in
the
20th
century.
C
All
those
others
were
created
by
government
by
laws
by
ordinances
by
public
policy
by
regulation.
This
one
just
sort
of
happened
it
evolved.
It
happened
because,
oh
prophet,
homeowners
wouldn't
sell
homes,
the
African
Americans
and
white
neighborhoods
or
African
Americans
and
whites
both
like
to
live
with
each
other,
the
same
race,
and
so
they
congregate
towards
the
same
neighborhoods
or
private.
C
Real
estate
agents
or
banks
in
their
private
capacities,
discriminated
against
African
Americans
and
prevented
them
from
buying
homes
and
middle-class
neighborhoods,
or
maybe
it's
just
that
African
Americans
are
have
typically
have
lower
incomes
and
whites,
and
so
they
can't
afford
to
live
in
neighborhoods
of
single
family
homes.
Middle-Class
neighborhoods.
All
of
these
individual
personal
decisions,
uncoordinated
undirected
by
government.
C
In
contrast
to
what
the
court
calls
the
jurors
segregation
and
the
Supreme
Court
has
told
us
that
if
you
have
de
facto
segregation,
the
kind
I
just
described
personal
choices,
private
discrimination,
income
differences
market
forces-
if
you
have
that
kind
of
discrimination.
Not
only
is
there
nothing
you
could
do
about
it,
there's
nothing
you're
permitted
to
do
about
it,
so
the
Supreme
Court
has
blessed
our
inaction
made
us
feel
better
about
the
fact
that
we
have
leftt
uncompleted
the
civil
rights
revolution
that
we
began
in
the
twentieth
century.
C
Only
the
Supreme
Court
said
if
we
have
government
sponsored
segregation,
segregation
created
by
government
and
forced
by
government
mandated
by
government.
Only
then
not
only
are
you
permitted
to
do
anything
about
it.
We
would
then
be
if
we
accepted
that
view.
We
would
then
be
required
to
do
something
about
it,
because
if
the
rights
of
African
Americans
in
housing
has
been
violated
that
the
civil
rights
there
are
civil
rights
under
the
fifth
and
Fourteenth
Amendments,
we
have
an
obligation
to
remedy
it.
C
Well,
I
spent
most
of
my
time
in
the
last
few
decades,
not
on
this
topic.
I
spent
most
of
my
time,
studying
education
policy
and
I
came
to
understand
that
when
you
take
children
and
concentrate
them
till
disadvantaged
children,
particularly
minority
disadvantaged
children,
and
concentrate
them
in
single
neighborhoods,
their
social
and
economic
disadvantages
can
overwhelm
the
schools
that
they
attend
and
make
it
impossible
to
close
what
we
call
the
achievement
gap.
I
spent
many
time
many
years
writing
articles
explaining
why
the
education
policy
were
following
in
this
country
was
other
nonsense.
C
The
notion
that
we
could
close
the
achievement
gap
simply
by
holding
teachers
accountable
for
higher
test
scores
for
black
children
and
I,
tried
to
show
through
many
many
examples
that
it
was
inevitable
that
you
would
have
an
achievement
gap
between
middle
class
and
disadvantaged
children.
Then
I'll
give
you
one
example.
If
we
know,
for
example,
that
african-american
children
in
this
country
living
in
the
urban
areas
of
asthma
is
four
times
at
four
times
the
rate
of
the
middle-class
children
and
if
a
child
has
asthma,
the
child
is
more
likely
to
be
awake
at
night.
C
Wheezing
child
might
be
drowsy.
When
the
child
comes
to
school,
the
next
day
may
be
sleepless,
maybe
even
absent.
Asthma
is
the
largest
single
cause
of
chronic
school
absenteeism
in
this
country
today,
and
if
you
have
two
groups
of
children
who
will
equal
in
every
respect,
every
respect,
except
for
the
one
fact
that
one
group
has
a
higher
rate
of
asthma
than
the
other.
C
Well,
if
you
take
children
like
that,
a
child
who
is
absent
more
often
a
teacher
can
perhaps
give
that
child
special
attention,
and
while
they
won't
overcome
the
fully
the
disadvantages
that
lack
of
attendance
or
drowsiness
causes,
they
might
improve
that
child's
achievement
somewhat.
But
what
happens
when
you
take
children
like
this,
who
not
only
have
asthma
but
lead,
poisoning
or
stress,
from
parental
unemployment
or
economic
insecurity
or
homelessness,
or
any
of
the
dozens
and
dozens
of
social
and
economic
characteristics
of
disadvantaged
children?
And
you
concentrate
those
children
and
single
schools.
C
C
That's
a
oxymoron
and
so
I
came
to
understand
that
segregated
schools
were
the
most
serious
cause
of
the
problems
we
have
in
education
today
and
I
further
came
to
understand
that
the
reason
we
have
segregated
schools
in
this
country
today
is
because
the
neighborhoods
which
they
located
a
segregated,
in
fact
schools
today,
are
more
segregated
than
any
time
in
the
last
forty
five
years
in
this
country
because
of
neighborhood
segregation.
Well,
this
is
well
I've,
been
thinking
about
ten
fifteen
years
ago
and
then
in
2007
I
read
a
Supreme
Court
decision.
C
The
Supreme
Court
looked
into
a
case
of
two
school
districts,
Louisville
Kentucky
and
Seattle
Washington.
Both
of
these
districts
had
embarked
on
very,
very
modest
school
desegregation
programs.
They
had
a
choice,
choice
plan,
both
districts
had
a
choice
plan,
but
if
the
choice
of
a
child
would
further
exacerbate
racial
segregation,
that
choice
would
not
be
honored
in
favor
of
the
choice
of
a
child
who
might
help
to
desegregate
the
schools.
C
So
the
white
family
in
the
suburb
of
Shively,
the
white
homeowner,
bought
another
home,
a
second
home
in
that
suburb
and
resold
it
to
his
african-american
friend
as
a
way
of
getting
him
the
opportunity
to
move
into
the
suburb
and
when
the
african-american
family
moved
in
a
mob,
surrounded
the
home
protected
by
the
police.
They
threw
stones
through
the
windows
and
the
police
somehow
couldn't
identify
any
perpetrators.
They
then
firebomb,
the
home
and
the
police
couldn't
identify
any
perpetrators.
C
They
dynamited
the
home
and
the
police
couldn't
identify
any
perpetrators,
and
when
this
riot
was
over,
the
state
of
Kentucky
arrested,
tried,
convicted
and
jailed
with
a
15
year
sentence.
The
white
homeowner
for
sedition
and
I
said
to
myself.
This
doesn't
sound
much
like
the
facto
segregation.
It
may
be
that
the
government
has
more
to
do
with
this
than
Chief
Justice
John
Roberts
thought
and,
of
course,
I
knew
a
little
bit
more
about
that
more
than
that.
C
C
Another
was
so
powerful,
so
systemic,
so
thoroughgoing
is
all
levels
of
government
and
all
departments
of
government
that
we
have
a
system
that
is
unconstitutional
as
segregation
of
water
fountains,
it's
as
unconstitutional
as
segregation
of
buses
or
of
lunch
counters
or
of
any
other
public
facility
and
as
such
as
I
said,
we're
under
the
obligation.
All
of
us
to
do
something
about
it
and
we've
never
done
anything
about
it,
because
we've
comforted
ourselves
with
this
myth
that
didn't
happen.
The
segregations
of
the
government
to
segregate
this
country
were
once
well-known.
C
The
subtitle
of
my
book
is
this:
isn't
forgotten
history
of
how
government
segregated
America
is
nothing
hidden
the
ballot
because,
as
I
described,
some
of
the
policies
that
were
followed,
you
will
see
that
there
was
nothing
hidden
about
these.
It
was
out
in
the
open.
Everybody
knew
what
was
going
on,
but
we've
accepted
it
and
this
generation
our
generation
has
forgotten
it.
So
let
me
describe
some
of
the
chief
policies
that
government
followed
to
create
segregation
in
this
country.
I
can't
describe
many
of
them,
but
I'll
describe
a
few,
a
few
of
the
powerful
ones.
C
C
Lots
of
mothers,
single
mothers
with
children,
lots
of
young
men
without
jobs
in
the
formal
economy,
acting
out
the
engaging
in
oppositional
behavior,
attracting
the
attention
of
the
police,
engaging
in
violent
confrontations
with
the
police.
That's
our
image
of
public
housing.
That's
not
how
public
housing
began
in
this
country.
Public
housing
began
in
this
country
as
a
program
for
middle-class
working-class
families
during
the
Depression
poor
people
were
not
permitted
into
public
housing.
C
When
public
housing
was
first
created,
there
was
a
housing
shortage
and
public
housing
was
created
for
people
who
could
afford
to
pay
the
full
rent
cost
of
their
rent
and
housing,
and
they
did
in
public
housing,
but
for
whom
there
was
no
housing
available.
The
first
public
housing
in
this
country
was
created
in
the
New
Deal,
beginning
with
the
Public
Works
Administration
Franklin
Roosevelt's
Public
Works
Administration
in
1933
and
everywhere.
C
The
Public
Works
Administration,
created
segregated
housing,
separate
projects
for
African,
Americans
and
whites,
frequently
creating
segregation
and
communities
that
hadn't
previously
known
segregation
that
had
been
integrated.
Now,
that
may
surprise
you,
but
in
the
mid
and
early
20th
century
there
were
many
many
urban
neighborhoods
that
were
integrated.
We
would
be
stunned
if
we
were
transported
back
to
the
mid
early
20th
century
to
see
the
extent
of
urban
integration
that
existed
for
the
simple
reason
that
most
jobs
were
located
in
downtown
areas.
Most
factories
were
located
in
downtown
areas.
C
Workers
didn't
have
automobiles
if
they,
if
our
Irish
workers
and
Italian
workers
and
Jewish
workers
and
African
Americans
and
rural
migrants,
we're
going
to
work
in
the
same
workplaces.
In
the
same
general
work
area,
they
had
to
be
able
to
walk
to
work
from
nearby
neighborhoods
and
the
neighborhoods
were
integrated.
The
other
reason
that
we
had
integrated
neighborhoods
everywhere
in
the
country
was
that
the
railroads
with
only
higher
African
Americans
as
pullman
car
porters,
arose
baggage
handlers.
Every
city
had
a
railroad
terminal
going
through
the
center
of
the
city.
C
They
were
surrounded
by
white
homes,
white
working-class
families,
but
you
had
to
have
some
african-americans
living
there
so
that
they
could
walk
to
work,
walk
to
the
railroad
station.
I,
don't
know.
If
any
of
you
read
this
a
couple
of
weeks
ago,
a
few
weeks
ago,
Linda
Brown
passed
away.
She
was
the
daughter
of
the
plaintiff
and
Brown
versus
Board
of
Education
the
the
case
that
came
out
of
the
peak
of
Kansas
to
desegregate
schools
and
I
know
if
you
read
the
obituary
of
Linda
Brown
in
the
New
York
Times.
C
But
one
thing
that
struck
me
was
that
Linda
Brown
who
went
to
a
segregated
school
in
Topeka
Kansas.
That
was
why
the
the
case
was
brought
lived,
an
integrated
neighborhood,
her
playmates
were
white
and
black,
and
this
was
not
uncommon
in
in
the
mid
20th
century.
For
the
reasons
I
described,
some
of
you
may
have
read
the
autobiography
of
the
great
african-american
poet
novelist
playwright,
Langston
use.
He
describes
how
he
grew
up
and
as
a
teenager,
in
an
integrated,
Cleveland
neighborhood.
C
C
In
my
book,
I
like
to
focus
to
the
extent
I
can
on
self-satisfied
places
like
Cambridge,
Massachusetts
or
Berkeley
California
places
that
the
somehow
think
they
don't
have
these
problems.
Well.
Cambridge
Mass
juice,
it's
the
Aryan
area
near
the
Massachusetts
Institute
of
Technology
Central,
Square
neighborhood.
Some
of
you
may
be
familiar
with
it.
C
Central
Square
neighborhood
in
the
1930s
was
about
half
black
half
white
integrated
neighborhood
Public
Works
Administration
demolished
housing
in
that
neighborhood
and
the
federal
government
built
two
projects:
one
for
African
Americans,
one
for
whites,
creating
a
pattern
of
segregation
with
that
and
other
segregated
projects
in
the
Boston
area.
That
otherwise
would
never
have
developed
and
I
can
say
that
much
more
confidently
about
Boston
and
I
can
about
Cleveland,
because
Cleveland
there
was
a
first
great
migration
during
World
War
one,
and
so
there
was
some
informal
segregation
and
non-government
created
segregation
in
Cleveland.
C
Before
that
in
Boston
there
wasn't.
There
was
no
first
great
migration
to
Boston
the
segregation
of
Boston
was
created
by
the
federal
government
in
a
place
that
had
known
segregation
before
even
in
the
south
Atlanta
an
area
near
downtown
Atlanta
called
the
flats
was
a
integrated
neighborhood
like
the
Central
Square
neighborhood,
those
about
half
black
half
white,
the
Public
Works
Administration
demolished
integrated
housing
in
Atlanta.
You
know
everything
else
in
Atlanta
was
segregated:
Jim
Crow
would
segregated
water
fountains
that
segregated
buses,
segregated
schools,
but
not
housing.
C
The
Public
Works
Administration
demolished
integrated
housing
in
the
flats
and
built
a
project
for
whites
only
from
which
African
Americans
were
excluded.
African
Americans,
who
were
living
in
an
integrated
neighborhood
and
whose
housing
was
demolished,
had
to
double
up
with
relatives
or
move
to
less
adequate
housing
elsewhere.
This
went
on
all
over
the
country.
C
I'm,
obviously
not
gonna,
give
case
after
case
of
these
examples,
but
you
can
get
the
idea
in
World
War
two,
the
the
policy
of
the
government
was
further
deepened
during
World
War,
two
hundreds
of
thousands
of
workers
flocked
the
census
at
the
fence
production
to
take
jobs
in
the
war
industry.
There
has
been
very
few
jobs
available
in
depression
relative
to
the
the
demand
the
war
created,
opportunities
for
employment
and
the
migration
of
workers
into
centers.
C
The
defense
production
overwhelmed
frequently
the
communities
where
they
were
working
and
if
the
government
wanted
the
ships
and
the
tanks
and
the
airplanes
and
the
jeeps
to
continue
rolling
off
the
assembly
lines
that
somehow
I
had
to
find
a
way
to
house.
The
workers
who
were
coming
to
these
places
and
the
example
that
I
focused
most
on
in
the
book
is
a
suburb
of
Berkeley
called
Richmond
California,
where
there
was
a
deep
water
port
and
the
shipyards
were
built,
the
Kaiser
shipyards,
five
shipyards,
none
existed
before
World
War,
two
by
the
end
of
World
War.
C
Two,
a
hundred
thousand
workers
were
working
in
the
shipyards
in
Richmond
and
the
small
community,
a
suburb
of
Berkeley,
like
I,
say
Richmond
had
a
population
of
20,000.
He
was
all
white.
There
were
very
few
african-americans
living
on
its
outskirts,
who
were
working
as
domestics
in
the
homes
of
white
families.
They
were
mostly
the
wives
of
Pullman
car
porters,
because
nearby
Oakland
was
the
terminus
of
the
Intercontinental
railroad,
but
there's
a
basically
white
community,
a
hundred
thousand
workers
coming
to
Richmond
and
Berkeley
and
and
that
area
with
their
families.
C
It's
probably
an
influx
of
300-400
thousand
people,
I,
don't
know
how
a
community
grows
from
20,000
to
400,000.
In
just
four
years.
It's
unimaginable
the
federal
government
had
to
build
housing
for
these
workers
of
one
of
the
ships
to
be
produced,
and
so
it
built
housing
for
war
workers
in
Richmond
and
in
Berkeley.
The
housing
for
african-americans
was
temporary
housing,
shoddy
housing
along
the
railroad
tracks
near
the
industrial
area
temporary
because
the
city
of
Richmond
announced
that
african-americans
who
came
to
the
city
during
the
war
to
work
in
the
shipyards
and
other
war
industries.
C
C
I
want
you
to
remember
this
story.
After
World
War
Two,
there
was
an
enormous
housing
shortage.
Still
in
the
country.
No
housing
had
been
built
in
the
depression,
except
for
the
housing
for
working-class
families
that
the
Public
Works
Administration
had
built
and
other
federal
agencies.
During
World
War
two
was
prohibited
to
use
civilian
materials,
use
materials,
construction,
materials
for
civilian
purposes,
only
housing
for
war
workers
could
be
built,
and
then,
after
World
War
two
with
this
existing
house
in
troy's,
millions
of
returning
War
veterans
came
needing
housing
living
in
Quonset
huts
and
open
fields.
C
Doubling
up
with
relatives
was
an
enormous
crisis
that
President
Truman
had
to
it
address,
and
he
did.
He
proposed
a
vast
expansion
of
the
National
housing
program.
The
public
housing
program
of
the
federal
government
then
remembered
we're
not
talking
about
housing
for
poor
people,
we're
talking
about
housing
for
working-class
families.
These
were
returning
War
veterans,
they
had
jobs
in
the
postwar
boom.
C
They
had
no
housing
because
there
was
no
housing
available,
not
because
they
couldn't
afford
it
and
President
Truman
proposed
the
vast
expansion
of
the
nation's
public
housing
program
and
conservatives
in
Congress
wanted
to
defeat
Truman's
housing
program.
They
didn't
want
defeated
for
racial
reasons.
It
was
segregated,
they
didn't
object
to
that.
They
didn't
want
to
defeat
it
because
they
didn't
like
poor
people.
It
wasn't
for
poor
people
who
was
for
working-class
families.
They
wanted
to
defeat
it
because
they
thought
that
the
federal
government
shouldn't
be
involved
in
housing
was
socialistic.
C
The
private
sector
should
take
care
of
the
needs,
our
returning
War
veterans,
not
that
the
housing
private
sector
was
doing
it
and
therefore
the
federal
government
should
get
out
of
the
way
and
they
came
up
with
a
device,
a
legislative
device
that
we
call
a
poison
pill
strategy
to
defeat
the
1949
Housing
Act.
The
Truman
had
proposed
under
a
poison
pill
strategy,
opponents
of
bill
and
Congress
attempt
to
attach
a
bill
that
seems
innocuous,
or
at
least
can
gain
majority
support.
They
try
attach
an
amendment
to
the
bill.
C
If
the
amendment
passes,
it
then
makes
the
entire
bill
unpalatable
and
conservatives
in
Congress,
and
this
is
why
I
want
you
to
remember
conserve.
That's
in
Congress
proposed
an
amendment
to
the
1949
Housing
Act.
That
said
from
now
on,
there
can
be
no
more
racial
discrimination
in
public
housing.
It
has
to
be
integrated,
no
more
segregation
in
public
housing.
Of
course
it
was
a
cynical
proposal.
They
didn't
want
public
housing
at
all,
but
they
plan
to
vote
for
the
amendment
vote
for
the
integration
amendment.
C
They
assumed
that
northern
liberals
would
join
them
in
voting
for
the
integration
amendment
that
would
create
the
majority
the
integration
of
men
would
pass
and
then,
when
the
full
bill
came
before
Congress
ending
segregation
and
public
housing,
the
Conservatives
would
flip
and
vote
against
the
final
bill.
Southern
Democrats
would
join
them
to
vote
against
it.
That
would
create
a
new
majority
in
the
bill
without
the
defeat,
so
northern
liberals
determined
to
defeat
the
integration
amendment
they
were
led
by
I,
see
many
of
you
are
old
enough
to
remember.
They
were
led
by
Hubert
Humphrey.
C
The
leading
civil
rights
advocate
the
United
States
Senate.
He
was
called
missile
civil
rights
because
he
had
insisted
on
a
civil
rights
platform,
a
plank
in
the
Democratic
platform,
the
1948
Democratic
convention.
They
were
joined
by
Senator
Paul
Douglas.
A
liberal
senator
from
Illinois
was
the
other
leading
liberal
in
the
Senate
at
that
time
to
persuade
their
colleagues
to
vote
against
the
integration
amendments
and
the
Douglas
made
a
speech
on
the
floor.
I'm
paraphrasing
it,
but
he
said
I
want
to
say
to
my
negro
friends
that
they
will
get
more
housing
under
this
segregated
program.
C
Then
they
will.
If
the
integration
amendment
is
passed
because
then
of
course,
there
would
be
no
public
housing
and
they
succeeded.
They
persuaded
their
colleagues
to
vote
against
the
integration
amendment.
The
integration
amendment
was
defeated
with
a
combination
of
northern
liberal
and
southern
segregationist
votes.
The
full
housing
bill
came
up
on
the
floor
of
the
Senate
as
a
continued
segregated
program.
It
passed.
C
Some
of
the
massive
public
housing
projects
they
were
familiar
with
were
built
Robert
Taylor
homes
in
Chicago
or
Cabrini
Green.
Some
of
you
may
be
familiar
with
that
they'll
pruitt-igoe
in
st.
Louis.
That
may
may
be
some
familiar
the
summer.
He
was
two
projects
pruitt-igoe.
Of
course,
Pruitt
was
for
African
Americans
I
go
was
for
whites
and
I
want
to
make.
C
Is
not
the
facto
segregation?
It's
not
that
White's
decided
that
they
liked
the
name.
I
go
and
blacks,
decide
they
liked
the
name
Pruitt,
and
so
they
decided
to
apply
the
separate
projects.
These
were
explicitly
designated
projects,
nothing
secret
about
it.
That's
why
I
say
it
was
a
forgotten
history.
They
were
clearly
designated.
C
Everybody
knew
what
the
projects
were
and
the
projects
were
built
across
the
country
under
the
1949
housing
act
on
a
segregated
basis,
very
soon,
after
that,
without
in
the
mid-1950s,
a
development
occurred
everywhere
in
the
country
which
was
systemic,
similar
and
widespread,
and
that
was
that,
suddenly,
all
the
white
projects
began
to
develop
large
numbers
of
vacancies.
All
the
white,
all
the
black
projects
began,
develop
long
waiting
lists
and
soon
the
situation
became
so
untenable.
C
So
conspicuous
you
couldn't
have
projects
in
the
same
city,
some
of
which
were
virtually
empty
and
the
other
of
which
had
long
waiting
lists.
The
federal
government
and
local
housing
agencies
opened
up
all
projects
african-americans
and
then,
at
about
the
same
time.
In
this
book
talking
about
the
mid
1950s
industry
left
the
cities
move
to
suburbs.
They
no
longer
needed
to
be
located
near
deepwater
ports
or
near
railroad
terminals.
C
Industry
could
be
located
in
rural
areas
where
they
could
have
single
story,
assembly
lines
or
continuous
assembly
lines
where
they
could
get
their
parts
delivered
and
ship
their
final
products
by
truck
fewer
and
fewer
jobs
became
available
too
now,
increasingly,
and
soon,
almost
all
african-american
population
in
the
public
housing.
The
population
could
no
longer
afford
to
pay
the
full
cost
of
its
rent
of
the
housing
and
its
rent.
C
So
the
government
had
to
begin
subsidizing
public
housing
once
the
government
gaen
subsidizing
public
housing,
and
that
was
all
for
African
Americans,
for
whom,
from
whom
jobs
had
disappeared,
the
maintenance
declines
and
the
projects.
Prior
to
this
maintenance
workers
lived
in
the
projects,
they
were
paid
good
salaries
and
lived
in
the
projects
and
maintained
their
own
projects,
but
maintenance
declined,
upkeep
declined.
C
C
It
was
an
explicit
racial
program.
It
was
not
an
accident.
It
was
explicit
racial
program
to
get
White's
to
move
out
of
the
suburbs
into
out
of
cities
into
single-family
homes
in
the
suburbs
and
prohibit
explicitly
african-americans
from
following
and
you're
familiar
with
many
of
the
projects
they
were
done
all
over
the
country.
This
is
how
the
country
came
to
be
suburban
eyes
in
the
night,
late
1940s
and
50s,
and
60s
and
you're
familiar
with
these
projects
they're
everywhere
they
were
in
this
area.
C
Hundreds
of
hundreds
and
hundreds
of
these
developments,
perhaps
the
most
famous,
is
left
of
town
east
of
New
York
City
in
17,000
homes.
Maybe
your
some
of
you
may
have
heard
a
song
that
Pete
Seeger
used
to
sing
by
Malvina,
Reynolds
and
I,
see
some
people
nodding
already
little
boxes
on
a
hillside,
the
made
of
ticky
tacky
and
they
all
look
the
same.
C
That
was
another
Federal
Housing
Administration
project
for
whites,
only
built
south
of
San
Francisco,
the
symbol
of
suburbanization,
the
1950s
in
this
country
and
60s
became
the
city
of
Los
Angeles
and
the
giant
subdivisions
that
ring
Los,
Angeles
places
like
Lakewood
or
an
off
the
area
from
Los
Angeles,
but
Lakewood
or
panorama
city
or
Westchester.
These
were
all
FHA
finance
projects
for
whites.
C
Only
developers
of
someone
like
Levitt
in
Levittown
or
Henry
dolger,
who
built
the
little
boxes
on
the
hillside
er
any
of
these
other
developers
could
never
have
assembled
the
Capitol
on
their
own
to
build
17,000
homes,
which
they
had
no
buyers.
A
banquet
crazy
to
lend
somebody
the
money
to
build
17,000
homes
on
speculation.
The
only
way
that
Levitt
or
dolger
or
any
of
the
other
developers
could
build
this
house
build.
These
developments
was
by
going
to
the
Federal
Housing
Administration,
submitting
their
plans
for
the
development.
C
C
That's
what
the
manual
said
not
that
any
projects
were
approved
for
the
other
racial
class
and
it
even
warned
appraisers
not
to
approve
projects
that,
even
if
they
were
all
white
for
all
whites,
we're
close
to
where
african-americans
were
living
because
in
the
language
of
the
manual
'this
is
a
government
manual,
they
ran
the
risk
of
infiltration
by
incompatible
racial
elements.
This
was
federal
policy.
There's
nothing
de-facto
about
this.
This
is
federal
policy.
It's
an
unconstitutional
system
that
we
have.
It
determines
the
racial
landscape
that
we
have
today.
C
It
determines
most
of
the
social
problems
that
we
have
in
this
country
today,
the
most
serious
social
problems
we
have
in
the
country
today,
the
homes
and
these
developments
in
the
mid
twentieth
century
sold
for
eight
nine
ten
thousand
dollars
at
the
time.
In
today's
inflation
adjusted
terms,
that's
about
a
hundred
thousand
dollars
any
working-class
family.
Why
they're
black
can
afford
to
buy
a
home
for
a
hundred
thousand
dollars
with
a
no
down
payment?
C
Va
loan
black
workers
in
the
mid
twentieth
century
could
have
afforded
to
buy
these
homes
as
easily
well,
almost
as
easily
as
White's.
They
all
had
jobs,
so
the
post-war
boom,
the
whites,
had
somewhat
better
jobs
and
than
the
African
Americans,
but
these
were
accessible
to
African
Americans,
but
they
were
prohibited
from
participating
and
as
the
white
families
bought
these
homes
for
$100,000.
In
today's
terms,
today
those
homes
sell
for
three
hundred
four
hundred
five
hundred
thousand
dollars.
They
are
unaffordable
to
working-class
families
of
either
race,
either
black
or
white.
C
The
white
families
who
bought
those
homes
gained
over
the
next
couple
of
generations,
equity
from
the
appreciation
and
value
of
those
homes.
Two
hundred
three
hundred
four
hundred
thousand
dollars
in
equity.
They
used
that
wealth
and
and
in
this
country
the
the
chief
way
that
most
Americans
gain
what
wealth
they
have
is
from
the
equity
they
have
in
their
homes.
It's
only
the
very
wealthy
that
get
it
from
the
stock
market
or
for
investments.
C
The
white
families
working
class
families
who
became
middle-class
as
a
result
of
this
program
used
that
wealth
to
send
their
children
to
college.
They
used
it
to
care
for
elderly
relatives.
They
used
it
to
take
care
of
emergencies,
whether
it
was
temporary
and
bouts
of
unemployment
or
medical
emergencies,
and
they
used
it
to
bequeath
it
to
their
children,
who
then
had
down
payments
of
their
own
for
homes,
african-americans,
who
were
prohibited
from
participating
in
this
program
and
who
were
increasingly
concentrated
in
urban
neighborhoods
where
from
which
jobs
had
disappeared,
gained
none
of
that
wealth.
C
The
result
is
that
today,
African
American
incomes
on
average
are
about
sixty
percent
of
white
income,
6o
percent
of
white
incomes.
There's
a
story
behind
that
difference
as
well,
but
I'm
not
going
to
describe
that
this
evening,
but
sixty
percent.
You
would
think
that
if
there
was
a
sixty
percent
income
ratio,
there
will
also
be
a
sixty
percent
wealth
ratio.
But
in
fact,
while
there's
a
sixty
percent
income
ratio
between
black
and
white
incomes
on
average,
the
wealth
ratio
is
ten
percent.
C
African
American
wealth
is
ten
percent
on
average
of
white
wealth
and
that
enormous
disparity
between
a
sixty
percent
income
ratio
and
the
ten
percent
wealth
ratio
is
entirely
attributable
to
unconstitutional
federal
housing
policy.
There
was
practice
in
the
mid
twentieth
century
and
that
has
never
been
remedied.
We
passed
the
Fair
Housing
Act
in
1968.
We
didn't
they
had
any
enforcement
provisions
until
1988,
but
we
did
pass
a
bill
that
said
in
effect,
okay,
African
Americans.
C
Levittown,
for
example,
now
has
a
2%
african-american
population
as
a
result
of
the
non-discrimination
provisions
of
the
Fair
Housing
Act
in
an
area,
that's
roughly
15
to
20
percent
African
American,
which
is
what
you
would
expect
the
the
percentage
of
Levittown
to
be.
If
we
ever
remedied
this
unconstitutional
system.
C
The
segregation
that
we
created
with
by
concentrating
African
Americans
in
urban
areas,
without
jobs
by
subsidizing
the
movement
of
white
families
into
suburbs
that
ringed
the
city's
is
the
underlying
cause
of
so
many
of
the
social
problems
that
we
have
in
this
country
today,
and
that
we
ignore,
because
we
try
to
deal
with
symptoms
rather
than
the
underlying
cause,
which
is
the
segregation
of
our
metropolitan
areas.
It's
the
cause
as
I
began.
By
talking
about
it.
It's
the
cause
of
the
achievement
gap
in
schools.
You
cannot
close
the
achievement
gap
with
segregated
schools.
C
It's
the
cause
of
the
enormous
health
disparities
between
half
life
expectancy,
differences
retire
between
african-americans
and
whites
in
this
country.
It's
the
cause
of
the
lack
of
mobility
of
African
Americans,
who
remain
poor
multi-generational,
while
white
pours
tend
to
be
episodic.
White
poverty
tends
to
be
episodic
and
confined
to
a
single
generation,
and
it's
the
cause
of
something
I've
only
come
recently
appreciate
and
and
I.
Think
probably
you
may
owe
as
well
and
that's
it's
the
cause
of
the
enormous
racial
poulos
or
polarization
and
politics
in
this
country.
C
The
fact
that
we
are
living
so
separately
and
in
such
different
social
and
economic
circumstances
well,
these
problems
are
only
going
to
get
worse.
If
we
don't
aggressively
confront
residential
segregation,
there
are
many
many
policies
we
could
follow
to
desegregate
this
country.
It's
not
it's
harder
than
desegregating
lunch,
counters
or
buses
or
while
they're
fountains,
but
it's
not
impossible.
The
policies
are
easy
to
think
about,
like
I
can
describe
a
few
of
them
to
you.
I
won't
take
the
too
much
more
of
your
time,
but
I
do
describing
the
book.
C
We
have
a
subsidy
for
middle-class
homeowners
and
it's
much
much
more
expensive
than
the
these
two
programs
for
low-income
families.
It's
the
mortgage
interest
deduction
and
that
is
a
subsidy
to
maintain
segregated,
neighborhoods,
segregated
communities
that
ring
all
of
our
cities.
These
could
easily
be
adjusted
to
to
advance
the
cause
of
integration.
We
could,
for
example,
in
the
case
of
low-income
housing,
tax
credit,
the
place
of
priority
and
granting
these
tax
credits
the
developers
who
would
build
in
high
opportunity
neighborhoods.
We
don't
do
that
now.
C
We
could
use
the
mortgage
interest
deduction
as
a
lever
to
persuade
suburbs
to
take
steps
to
desegregate.
We
could,
for
example,
take
the
mortgage
introductions
of
families
in
communities
that
refused
to
take
steps
to
desegregate
and
place
them
in
escrow
until
the
suburbs
did
take
those
steps
and
it
wouldn't
be
a
punitive,
you
could
return
the
mortgage
deduction
to
those
families
once
their
communities
took
steps
to
desegregate.
So
you
know
you're
laughing.
C
But
you
know
this
is
serious
business
unless
we're
willing
to
contemplate
these
kinds
of
solutions,
we're
not
going
to
address
the
most
serious
problem
this
country
faces,
and
let
me
say
that
the
first
step
obviously
has
to
be
and
I'll
conclude
with
this.
The
first
step
has
to
be
the
education
of
Americans
about
the
Forgotten
history,
because
unless
we
understand
that
we
have
a
constitutional
obligation,
you
know
laughable.
Though
you
may
think
these
solutions
are.
We
have
a
constitutional
obligation
to
undertake
them.
C
We're
not
going
to
begin
to
build
the
other
kinds
of
political
mobilizations
and
civil
rights
activities
that
are
necessary
to
address
it.
In
the
course
of
writing.
This
book
I
caused
myself
to
look
at
all
of
the
textbooks
the
most
commonly
used
in
American
history
classes
and
all
across
the
country,
and
I
can
tell
you
to
summarize.
They
all
lie
about
it.
They
lie
about
this
history,
the
most
commonly
used
American
history
textbook,
at
least
when
I
looked
at
these
three
or
four
years
ago,
when
I
was
doing.
C
This
research
is
something
called
the
Americans
it's
1,200
pages
of
American
history
within
those
1,200
pages,
there's
one
paragraph
with
the
subhead
discrimination
in
the
north,
not
segregation,
but
discrimination
in
the
north.
Within
that
paragraph,
there's
one
sentence
about
housing
and
that
reads
something
like
something
along
the
following
lines:
in
the
North
African
Americans
found
themselves
forced
in
segregated
neighborhoods.
That's
it.
You
know
they
woke
up
one
day
they
looked
out
the
window,
they
said,
hey
were
we're
in
a
sector,
that's
how
it
happened.
C
F
C
It
may
be
hard
to
figure
out
how
you
can
take
action
to
put
mortgage
interest
deductions
in
escrow,
but
it's
not
hard
to
figure
out
how
you
can
get
involved
in
your
local
schools
and
make
sure
that
the
teaching
this
history
accurately
so
that
the
site,
the
next
generation
will
have
a
better
chance
of
remedying
it
than
we
have
so
I
am
glad
to
take
your
questions
and
hear
your
discussion
and
I
appreciate
your
attention.
Thank
you
very
much.
G
We're
gonna
open
up
the
floor
for
questions.
I
just
want
to
say
briefly
that
we
want
to
try
to
keep
the
questions
brief.
We
were
gonna
have
two
microphones
going
on
both
sides.
We're
gonna
get
you
as
quickly
as
we
possibly
can.
Please
wait
until
the
microphone
has
been
passed
to
you
before
you
start
to
ask
your
question.
Okay,
we'll
start
over
here.
C
Hi
are
there
new
or
current
avenues
for
more
litigation
that,
along
the
lines,
the
ones
that
got
shot
down
with
Louisville
and
Seattle?
No
I?
Don't
think
that
this
can
be
solved
with
litigation.
It
can
only
be
solved
by
developing
a
new
civil
rights
movement
based
on
an
understanding
of
our
constitutional
obligations.
That's
core
enact
the
kind
of
remedies
that
I
talked
about
now.
If
we
enact
those
kinds
of
remedies,
someone
will
challenge
them
and
it
will
get
to
court.
So
I'm
not
suggesting
that
lawyers
are
not
gonna
have
jobs
in
this
fight.
C
They
will,
if
we,
for
example,
I
just
give
this
one
example
of
using
the
mortgage
interest
deduction
as
a
lever
to
force
communities
to
desegregate.
Someone
will
challenge
it
and
it
will
come
to
court
and
the
court
will
have
to
review
it
and
if
it
understood
now
this
history-
and
this
is
on
this
history
as
well,
better
understood-
and
this
is
the
day
the
court
we
have
to
uphold
such
a
policy.
So
that's
how
it
will
get
into
court
it
won't.
C
H
Couple
years
ago,
Tong
se
Coates
wrote
an
article
in
Atlantic
magazine
in
which
he
described
the
financing
process
in
Chicago
post-world
War
two,
where
White's
got
the
kind
of
mortgages
that
were
all
accustomed
to
you
build
up
equity
while
you're
paying
off
the
loan,
whereas
the
banks
that
lended
to
african-americans
who
are
buying
homes
didn't
give
them
too
mortgages,
as
we
know
them,
but
it
was
rather
a
to
remember
the
term
for
it.
But
you
contract.
H
C
I
C
Is
the
important
point
to
remember
and
I'm
glad
you
asked
that
question
we
need
to
stop
thinking
about
these
things
as
private
activities.
It's
true.
The
banks
are
private
institutions,
but
they
operate
under
rules
that
set
by
the
government
and
if
the
government
had
not
denied
Haddad
had
a
manual
that
prohibited
the
banks
from
issuing
mortgages
to
African
Americans,
they
wouldn't
have
to
buy
on
contract.
You
know.
C
You've
all
heard
the
term
redlining
that's
what
you're
referring
to
redlining
is
the
practice
we
think
of
banks
refusing
to
make
loans
to
African
Americans
in
the
black
neighborhoods
in
predominantly
black
neighborhoods.
The
the
the
cover
of
my
book
is
a
redline
map
of
Newark
New
Jersey.
This
is
a
map
of
Newark
of
the
Newark
area.
The
area
where
african-americans
were
living
is
colored
red,
indicating
that
the
banks
cannot
expect
the
FHA
to
guarantee
a
mortgage
or
to
insure
mortgage
in
that
area.
C
Well,
these
maps
were
drawn
by
the
federal
government,
the
maps
the
the
banks
didn't
come
up
with
this.
The
there's
another
New
Deal
agency
called
the
homeowners
Loan
Corporation
that
drew
these
maps
of
every
metropolitan
area
in
the
country
and
that's
where
the
term
redlining
comes
from
it.
Colored
red
air
were
african-americans,
were
living
to
guide
banks
and
knowing
where
they
could
expect
federal
guarantees
for
mortgages
and
loans.
Thank
you.
J
Yeah
hi
I
have
a
question
about
zoning.
You
talked
about
zoning
in
your
book
and
you
talked
about
how
a
lot
of
zoning
or
some
amount
of
zoning
around
the
country
and
was
done
for
exclusionary
purposes
for
racial
exclusion.
Can
you
talk
about
of
all
the
zoning
that
we
all
know
and
have
across
the
country
today?
How
much
of
it
is
there?
Because
of
these?
You
know,
for
these
exclusionary
reasons
versus
some
potentially
more
pure
justifications.
Well,.
C
Consider,
in
my
view,
I'm,
not
a
lawyer,
not
a
constitutional
lawyer,
but
I
think
that
zoning
ordinances,
exclusionary
zoning
oranges,
that
the
ordinances
of
many
middle-class
communities
that
restrict
development
to
single
family
homes,
frequently
on
large
lot
sizes,
I,
think
they're
unconstitutional,
because
they're
designed
to
lock
in
a
racial
division
that
was
created
for
explicit
racial
reasons,
even
though
the
zoning
ordinances
themselves
claim
not
to
be
racial
in
origin.
And
you
know
when
I
said
before
that
you
know
I
made
it.
I
I
made
it
as
a
serious
suggestion.
C
If
we
took
steps
to
require
these
kinds
of
communities
to
desegregate,
whether
it's
using
the
mortgage
deduction
as
leverage
or
taking
other
steps.
The
first
thing
that
we
need
the
these
communities
to
do
is
to
abolish
their
exclusionary
zoning
ordinances.
Every
community.
In
my
judgment,
every
community
ought
to
have
a
mix
of
moderate,
a
low
income,
a
market
rate
and
affluent
housing
and
the
zoning
ordinances
that
prohibit.
That
should
be
prohibited.
D
Thank
you.
Our
community,
in
December
of
2016,
a
local
high
school
student,
called
attention
to
a
school
redistricting
issue.
There
was
a
historically
black
neighborhood
that
was
going
to
the
school,
that's
very
close
to
here.
As
a
result
of
this
young
person's
letter,
the
school
board
attributed
the
patterns
in
ethnicity,
primarily
to
our
housing
patterns
and
then
asked
the
county
board
to
address
housing
patterns.
D
D
Someone
will
tell
you
about
the
Arlington
way
and
you
will
be
amazed
at
our
humility,
so
knowing
our
community
would
you
be
able
to
comment
on
our
next
steps,
because
we
also
have
a
very
active
citizenry,
who
is
happy
to
share
lots
of
stories
with
young
people
and
schools,
and
and
yet
when
school
boundaries
come
up,
we
we
see
a
lot
of
discussion
and
I
would
love
to
well.
I
would
welcome
your
comments.
C
I,
don't
know
what
I
don't
even
know
what
county
we're
in
what
county?
Is
it
all
the
county
right?
Well,
Arlington
County
some
influence
over
the
the
use
of
these
tax
credits,
the
section
8
voucher
program?
Is
there
a
public
housing
authority
in
Arlington?
Well,
that's
a
problem!
Isn't
it
you
could
establish
a
public
housing
authority
and
and
allow
section
8
families
to
move
into
the
community.
C
K
G
G
M
M
Door
which
was
poured
or
which
was
developers,
get
tax
credits
for
building
in
you
know
urban
areas
and
they
have
to
have
like
a
certain
percentage
for
low-income
individuals.
But
then
the
low-income
individuals
have
separate
entrances
and
they
call
them
poor
doors.
So
even
still
is
it
is
it
preventable?
You
know
of.
C
Course,
of
course,
you
couldn't,
you
can
prohibit
the
use
of
tax
credits
for
that
kind
of
development.
That
would
be
a
policy
that
you
could
pursue
and
you
could
ensure
that
those
developments
were
not
placed
and
already
low-income
neighborhoods,
which
is
the
the
the
biggest
problem
that
we
have
with
that
program
know.
H
F
C
It
certainly
wasn't
a
rogue
agent
agency,
as
you
could
tell
from
my
descriptions
of
all
the
public
housing
agencies.
This
was
a
consistent
pattern
across
the
federal
government,
but
with
respect
to
whether
it
was
responding
to
political
pressures,
you
know
I
I,
don't
know
how
to
answer
this
without
sounding
preachy.
So
I'll
take
the
risk.
You
know
seriously.
You
know
our
Constitution
requires
government
agencies
to
resist
political
pressures.
That's
why
we
have
a
bill
of
rights,
and
so
the
fact
you
know
I'm
not
denying
I
would
never
deny
that.
C
There's
private
pressures
in
this
country
that
there's
white
supremacist
views
in
this
country
I
wouldn't
deny
that
the
that
some
of
the
policies
that
the
federal
agencies
were
following
that
I
described
were
popular
in
the
white
population,
but
that
doesn't
make
them
any
less
unconstitutional.
You
know
schools
in
the
south
before
1954
were
popularly
segregated
by
white.
You
know:
majorities,
water
fountains
were
supported.
A
segregation
was
supported
by
white
majorities
that
doesn't
have
anything
to
do
with
whether
they're
the
policies
of
the
government
agencies
that
segregated
these
institutions
violated
civil
rights.
C
They
did
and
we
have
an
obligation,
as
I
said,
to
to
remedy
these
violations,
whether
or
not
they
were
supported
by
popular
majorities
in
in
when
they
were
enacted.
Now,
having
said
that,
I
own
one
of
the
most
tragic
things
to
me
about
this
story
is
how
easily
it
could
have
been
prevented.
How
easily
we
could
have
had
another
history.
C
You
know
I
described,
you
know:
Langston
users
neighborhood
in
Cleveland,
where
the
Public
Works
administration's
the
integrated
neighborhood,
the
Public
Works
Administration
built
two
projects,
one
for
blacks,
one
for
whites,
certainly
the
case
that
there
may
have
been
many
white
families
who
didn't
want
to
live
in
a
building
with
African
Americans.
They
were
living
in
the
same
neighborhood
with
them,
but
they
might
not
have
wanted
to
live
in
the
building
with
African
Americans.
Well,
we
had
an
enormous
housing
shortage
in
this
country.
C
That's
why
the
program
was
was
being
enacted
for
every
white
family
who
didn't
want
to
live
in
an
integrated
project.
They
were
10
willing
to
take
its
place.
The
same
thing
is
true
of
the
the
suburbanization
I
talked
about.
If
the
federal
government
had
required
Leavitt
or
any
of
these
other
builders
to
sell
homes
on
a
non-discriminatory
basis,
we
were
integrating
suburbs
all
across
this
country,
and
some
white
families
might
have
not
wanted
to
to
live
in
them.
C
But
there
would
have
been
10
who
wanted
to
take
its
place
for
everyone
who
refused
because
of
the
housing
shortage
or
the
existed
so
you're.
Absolutely
right.
There
were
popular
majorities,
sometimes
even
violent
mobs,
like
the
one
that
I
described
in
Louisville,
but
when
the
police
protected
that
mob,
instead
of
protecting
the
african-american
family
was
moving
in,
they
were
violating
the
Constitution,
and
so
we
have
an
obligation
to
remedy
that,
and
the
same
thing
is
true
of
all
these
other
policies
that
may
have
had
popular
support
and
did
in
fact,
that
popular
support.
N
Imoh
moved
here
about
12
years
ago,
from
a
small
town,
you
probably
never
heard
New,
York,
City
and
I
was
shocked.
It
was
like
a
cultural
shock
to
me
when
I
moved
here
to
Arlington
I
owned
a
condominium
in
Pentagon,
City
and
I
have
been
having
a
difficult
time
with
the
board.
The
board
is
exclusively
white,
has
been
white,
since
it
converted
from
a
rental
to
a
condominium
in
1979.
N
Arlington
is
very
much
and
I
hate
to
say
it's
a
beautiful
County,
but
it
is
not
include
of
welcoming,
based
on
the
color
of
your
skin,
and
I
too,
have
decided
because
of
your
book.
I
read
your
book
twice
so,
if
I
and
you
need-
and
you
need
to
write
a
sequel
to
it
for
the
21st
century,
bringing
it
more
up-to-date
because
it's
still
happening,
especially
you.
Someone
talked
about
the
the
banks
which
you
shed
some
light
on
in
terms
of
the
housing
bus.
N
C
O
Understand
that
one
of
you
appreciation
is
to
make
a
difference
between
the
fact
and
de
jure
segregation
and
I
can
imagine.
Just
hypothetically
is
that
somebody
file
lawsuit
plus
case
loss.
You
class-action
lawsuit
against
the
government
and,
for
example,
I'm,
a
government
attorney
and
I
would
ask
you
to
question
the
first.
This
this
policies
was
vice
pres,
as
they
coordinated
or
not,
and
the
second
question
is
about
motive.
What's
the
first
question,
the
widespread
wat
widespread
policies
in
the
government,
as
his
policies
was
coordinated
in
different
part
of
the
government?
O
For
example,
Federal
Housing
Association
was
a
lender
and
they
may
say
it's
a
sound
decision
as
a
lender
not
to
provide
this
loan
because
of
racial
attitude
of
population
and
because,
if
somebody
move
to
neighborhood
as
a
property
value
may
drop,
so
this
is
might
be
kind
of
defend.
It's
not
what
they
think.
What
what
you
could
reply
well.
C
The
first
question
is:
what
are
these
various
policies
of
government
agencies
coordinated?
No,
they
didn't
have
to
be,
but
it
was
systematic.
It
came
and
I
only
described
two
of
them
I
only
described
public
housing
and
the
FHA
I
in
described,
for
example,
but
as
I
do
in
the
book.
The
practice
of
the
Internal
Revenue
Service
to
grant
tax
exemptions
to
nonprofit
institutions
that
were
promoting
segregation
in
their
neighborhoods
I.
C
Didn't
talk
about
the
fact
that
the
national
association
of
real
estate
boards
had
a
code
of
ethics
that
prohibited
realtors
from
selling
homes
to
african-americans
in
white
neighborhoods,
so
that
every
real
estate
agent,
who
was
licensed
by
a
state
agency,
was
being
licensed
in
violation
of
the
Fourteenth
Amendment
by
that
state
agency.
So
so
these
were
policies.
There
wasn't
anybody
sitting
on
top
saying
you
do
this?
You
do
that
you
did
that
there
was
a,
but
it
was
systemic
across
government
agencies.
C
C
The
Constitution
and
again
I'm
sounding
preachy,
but
the
Constitution
does
not
allow
that
justification
for
racial
discrimination.
You
cannot
racially
discriminatory
a
cannot
refuse
to
ensure
mortgages
in
certain
neighborhoods
because
it
thinks
that
neighbors
will
object
any
more
than
you
know.
The
government
can
restrict
speech
based
on
whether
it
likes
it
doesn't
like
it.
You
know
people
are
entitled
to
object,
but
the
government
can't
use
that
objection
as
a
constitutional
basis
for
refusing
to
treat
people
equally.
C
P
Know
you
said
you
weren't
interested
in
writing.
Another
book,
but
I
just
had
a
follow-up
question.
I
wondered
you
mentioned
about
the
importance
of
educating
the
next
generation
and
younger
people
and
I
was
curious
if
you
ever
considered
partnering
with
someone
to
do
some
sort
of
small
curriculum
for
a
high
school
or
college,
or
perhaps
turning
us
into
some
sort
of
a
children's
book.
To
start
that
conversation
with
kids
young,
knowing
what
they're
looking
at
in
their
environment,
was
engineered
and
we
could
ninja
near
or
re-engineer
yeah.
C
Can
I
partner
with
you
to
do
that?
No
seriously,
I
am
I
have
been
looking
meeting
with
with
teachers
and
trying
to
get
it's
a
big
job
to
write
the
curriculum.
It's
not
you
know
it's
not
a
simple
thing:
I've
been
trying
to
I've
been
working
on
this
for
a
number
of
months
trying
to
find
somebody
who
will
do
this
and
I
haven't
been
able
to
find
someone
yet.
C
L
L
I
want
to
talk
about
this,
shame
that
comes
with
being
in
the
ghetto
or
being
catalyzed
as
ghetto
and
how
just
the
information
that
you're
giving
us
is
enlightening
and
that
a
lot
of
times,
you're
you're
held
responsible
for
being
in
the
ghetto
or
not
having
a
home,
and
really
it
came
from
years
and
years
of
it
being
orchestrated
and
I.
Think
it's
very
important
that
this
information
gets
out
to
people
and
to
African
Americans.
L
That
much
of
where
you
are,
even
though,
yes,
you
make
individual
choices,
having
the
knowledge
to
be
able
to
to
fight
for
yourself
fight
for
other
people,
so
that
you
can
have
wealth
and
you
can
fight
against
forces
that
were
fighting
against
you
to
have
wealth.
It's
very
important
and
I
just
want
us
all
to
look
differently
at
the
ghetto
or
at
public
housing,
and
that
this
is
not
something
that
is
about
the
person.
L
And
if
somebody
does
get
out
of
it,
or
somebody
does
have
wealth
that
that
still
doesn't
reflect
on
people
who
are
in
public
housing
or
it's
not
even
just
public
housing
who
just
don't
have
what
other
people
have
or
I
have
what
other
black
people
have,
and
that's
just
something
that
it's
healing,
because
now
I
have
information
they
and
we
have
information
that
can
be
passed
down
so
that
you
can
start
the
generational
wealth
and
I
appreciate
this
book.
Well,.
C
You
make
a
very
important
point,
and
it's
something
I
should
have
said
before:
it's
not
just
that
private
prejudices
influence,
government
action,
government
action
creates
private
prejudices.
It's
a
two-way
street
and
the
step
when
I
said
before
about
so
many
of
the
social
problems
in
this
country
and
I
ended
by
talking
about
the
political
polarization
that
we
have
in
this
country
is
undergirded
by
this
racial
segregation
that
we've
created.
This
is
that's
an
example
of
it,
so
the
the
paperback
edition,
which
is
there
this
bookstore,
is
selling
here
of
the
book.
C
C
After
reading
the
color
of
law,
a
young
african-american
high
school
graduate
sent
an
email
note
to
the
author,
from
which
this
is
an
excerpt
as
I
was
growing
up,
I
looked
at
the
racial
segregation
and
accept
it
as
how
it
is
how
it
has
always
been
and
will
be:
I
equated,
white
neighborhoods
with
affluence,
and
black
neighborhoods
with
poverty.
I
didn't
think
about
the
major
role
the
government
had
in
hindering
the
equity
accumulation
of
African.
I
I
We've
got
a
lot
of
people
in
our
Lincoln
who
could
fall
into
that
area
into
the
into
that
opportunity,
but
I
understand
that
we
can't
limit
it
to
Arlen
Toni
ins,
who
maybe
work
for
the
local
government
work
for
the
schools
work
for
the
hospital,
because
our
neighboring
jurisdiction
Alexandria,
has
many
more
african-americans,
and
so
therefore
we
cannot
limit
it
just
to
Ireland
Toni
ins
and
that
this
was
a
Supreme
Court
decision,
or
maybe
it
was
the
state
of
Texas
I,
don't
know
called
disparate
impact.
So
how
do
you?
C
There
are
two
separate
things
you're
talking
about
and
the
the
disparate
impact
case
that
came
out
of
Texas,
there's
nothing
to
do
with
the
policy
that
you're
talking
about
what
the
disparate
impact
case
that
came
out
of
Texas
said
was
that
if
a
jurisdiction
places
almost
all
of
its
low-income
housing
tax
credit
developments
in
already
low-income,
segregated
neighborhoods,
it
could
violate
the
Fair
Housing
Act
and
the
technical
term,
for
that
is.
It
has
a
disparate
impact
on
African
Americans.
C
Q
There's
so
much
I
like
about
about
the
research
that
you've
done
and
how
you
approach
it?
What
bothers
me
is
your
statement
about
how
its
constitutional
and
you'll
go
back
to.
This
is
constitutional
that
doesn't
matter
what
matters
is:
is
the
public
going
to
be
supportive
of
the
efforts
to
address
these
constitutional
issues?
You
have
to
be
able
to
convince
the
public
that
it
matters
that
there
are
long-standing
racial
disparities
that
lead
to
economic
differences,
that
there
are
long-standing
lack
of
educational
opportunities
related
to
systemic
discrimination
and
I'll.
Q
Just
say
that
if
we
go
at
this
on
a
racial
dimension
to
eradicate
racial
injustice,
I
think
we
lose
and
I
would
say
that,
based
on
some
of
my
experience
and
criminal
justice
work,
I've
seen
experiments
done
where
if
people
think
that
it's
black
people
who
are
being
imprisoned,
they
are
more
supportive
of
tough
on
crime
policies.
They
only
become
supportive
of
smarter
on
crime
and
redirecting
on
drug
policy
if
they
think
that
it's
more
White's
who
are
being
affected.
Q
The
same
and
I'll
say
that
when
I've
talked
to
public
defenders
about
how
to
make
a
political
impact,
they
say
if
we
push
on
race,
it's
a
loser.
We
have
to
focus
on
Liberty
because
everybody
is
affected
by
Liberty.
Everybody
has
a
stake
in
Liberty.
In
this
case,
everybody
has
a
stake
in
economic
fairness
and
I.
Think
if
you
go
based
on
the
ideal
which
we
I
wish,
we
would
be
getting
to
as
a
society,
but
we're
not,
and
so
I
think
you
have
to
find
the
dimension
that
everybody
can
buy
into
well.
C
C
No,
we
cannot
sugarcoat
this
issue
by
claiming
it's
an
economic
issue
and
not
a
racial
issue.
It
is
a
racial
issue
and
african-americans
are
affected
by
it
in
a
way
that
whites
are
not.
There
are
white
poor
people
in
this
country.
There
are
whites
who
are
imprisoned
in
this
country,
white,
poor
people
that
dispersed
throughout
the
white
population
they're
not
concentrated
in
in
ghetto
areas
of
white
poverty.
There
are
a
few
pockets
of
Apple
agent
migrants
in
a
few
places,
but
basically
white
population.
The
white
poverty
is
episodic
and
dispersed.
C
African-American
poverty
is
not,
and
so
we
cannot
pretend
that
this
is
just
an
economic
issue,
an
issue
of
economic
inequality
and
not
race.
We
need
to
confront
it.
We
would
not
have
won
any
of
the
civil
rights
victories
that
we
won
in
the
mid
twentieth
century.
If
we
ignored
race
as
an
issue
and
we
can't
win
them
now,
we've
got
to
begin
talking
about
it
and
I'm
hopeful
I'm
hopeful
that
a
conversation
is
developing
in
this
country.
That
is
more
passionate
and
more
accurate
and
more
empathetic
about
our
racial
problems
than
we've
ever
before.
C
Had
in
our
history.
It
started
with
the
black
lives
matter
movement.
We
have
statues
being
removed
across
the
country
that
commemorates
slavery
and
the
defenders
of
slavery.
If
you
don't
read
my
book,
you
should
read
the
speech
that
Mayor
Mitch
Landrieu
of
New
Orleans
gave
when
he
removed
the
statue
of
Robert
Ely.
It's
online,
the
New
York
Times
published
a
future,
the
full
transcript
of
it.
It
was
inconceivable
five
years
ago
that
a
white
elected
southern
politician
would
make
a
speech
like
that
about
the
legacies
of
slavery
and
and
and
its
effect
on
our
country.
C
Today,
our
failure
to
fully
emancipate
enslave
people
so
I'm,
not
minimizing
the
other
side.
The
last
election,
empowered
white
supremacist
sentiment
in
many
parts
of
the
country.
It
empowered
neo-nazi
sentiment
in
many
parts
of
the
country,
but
we
also
have
this
conversation
about
race,
which
I
think
is
more
passionate,
accurate
and
ongoing
than
we've
had
before
you
know
in
the
late
1990s
President
Clinton,
you
may
recall
this
started
a
national
conversation
on
race
and
after
he
talked
to
himself
for
about
a
week,
the
conversation
was
over.
Well,
that's
not
happening
now.
C
This
is
a
you
know.
My
book
I'm
not
claiming
you
know
anything
special
about
the
book.
It
had
an
enormous
audience
and
I
wouldn't
be
here
today.
If
this
was
the
late-1990s
and
I
was
trying
to
participate
in
President
Clinton's
national
conversation
on
race
I'm
here
today,
because
there's
an
enormous
attention
to
it
so
far
is
a
constitutional
issues.
C
I
do
believe
that
one
of
the
reasons
we
haven't
addressed
this
issue:
it's
not
the
only
reason,
but
one
of
the
reasons
we
have
not
addressed
the
issue
of
residential
segregation,
which
underlies
all
these
other
problems
is
weak,
because
we've
adopted
a
myth
and
we
think
that,
because
it
happened
by
accident,
it's
not
our
responsibility
to
do
to
do
anything
about
it.
We
think
it's
too
bad
I'm,
not
suggesting
we
like
residential
segregation.
We
think
it's
too
bad,
but
we
don't
think
we
have
responsibility
for
it.
Our
government,
for
which
we're
responsible.
C
We
don't
think
it
has
responsibility
for
it,
and
that
is
a
constitutional
argument,
because
if
we
created
it
through
our
government,
then
we
have
an
obligation
to
undo
it.
If
we
had
nothing
to
do
with
it,
it
was
those
prejudiced
people
in
the
past
who
did
it.
Then
we
don't
have
responsibility
to
undo
it.
So
I
think
I'm
not
suggesting
assessing
the
constitutional
arguments.
All
we
need
do
people
only
learn.
This
history
they'll
suddenly
be
mobilized
to
to
do
something
about
it.
R
C
You
know
the
I,
don't
I,
don't
fully
agree
with
you
on
this.
The
the
extent
to
which
school
funding
is
based
on
property
taxes
varies
from
state
to
state.
There
are
some
states
in
which
property
taxes
pay
play
a
very
little
role,
and
the
racial
disparities
in
the
education
system
in
those
states
are
no
different
than
they
are
in
states
where
prop
which
are
driven
by
property
taxes.
The
racial
disparities
in
our
schools-
I'm,
not
suggesting
schools,
don't
need
more
money.
Yes,
they
do.
C
Don't
think
it
makes
any
difference
who's
in
charge
of
HUD.
There
is
no
political
support
today
in
this
country
to
develop
and
implement
the
kinds
of
policies
and
the
necessary
to
desegregate
this
society.
So
the
first
thing
we
need
is,
if
I
were
in
charge
of
HUD
I'd,
have
all
my
assistant
secretaries,
going
around
making
speeches
about
the
importance
of
desegregation.
C
That's
what
I
would
do,
because
we
need
to
educate
the
American
public
about
the
history
of
how
this
happened
and
about
the
harm
that
continues
to
do
about
the
challenge
it
it
it.
It
throws
to
ourself
conception
as
a
constitutional
democracy,
and
that's
the
first
step,
and
the
second
step
is-
and
this
is
not
something
HUD
can
do
something
only
you
can
do
second
step
is
we
need
a
new
civil
rights
movement?
C
That's
focused
on
the
big
unaddressed
on
addressed
issue
of
the
of
the
civil
rights
movement
of
the
20th
century,
and
that
is
residential
segregation
and
that's
going
to
require
marches
and
demonstrations
and
civil
disobedience
and
political
mobilization
and
all
the
other
things
that
the
social
change
requires.
Knowing
this
history
is
only
part
of
it.
Thank
you.
S
Yeah,
my
name
is
David
Christian,
the
housing
director
here
in
Arlington,
County
and
I.
Think,
as
the
author
said,
it's
there's
there
are
things
that
the
federal
government's
done
in
the
past,
but
as
a
planner
I'm
interested
in
sort
of
today
and
what
happens
in
the
future,
and
so
somebody
talked
about
the
Arlington
way
a
little
bit
ago.
Well,
part
of
the
Arlington
way
is
urls
input
in
local
decision-making.
S
That
happens
and
that's
in
land-use
patterns
and
land-use
decisions
that
go
before
the
the
Commission's,
the
Planning
Commission,
the
Housing
Commission
tenant,
landlord
transportation
and
so
on.
There's
a
lot
of
ways
that
folks
can
get
involved
in
these
decisions
that
affect
you
know
where
housing
is
and
what
type
of
housing
is
and
so
I
think.
S
It's
really
important
that
if
you
think
this
is
an
issue
that
certainly
the
all
the
Commission's
in
the
county
board
is,
is
really
a
place
to
let
your
voices
heard
there's
nonprofits
here,
a
Michele
winters
is
with
the
Alliance
for
housing
solution.
That's
an
advocacy
group!
That's
trying
to
educate
folks
around
housing
issues,
so
it's
really
important
to
get
involved.
Cuz
I
think
this
is
where
again
we
can
look
at
the
federal
government,
but
I
think
a
lot
of
what
we
want
to
do.
S
J
Hi,
my
thank
you
David.
My
name
is
Michelle
winters
I'm,
the
executive
director
of
the
Alliance
for
housing,
solutions
which
is
a
local
nonprofit
that
works
on
all
of
these
issues
from
a
policy
and
advocacy
perspective
sort
of
outside
of
the
government
working
very
closely
with
them,
but
pushing
them
and
encouraging
them
to
do
things
that
need
to
be
done.
One
of
the
things
that
we
do
is
we
run
a
campaign
called
Arlington
for
everyone.
J
You
may
have
seen
some
of
the
signs
buttons
around
I'm
not
wearing
mine
tonight,
but
I
should
be
and
that
that
campaign
is
meant
to
draw
the
connection
for
people
in
Arlington
about
the
connection
between
our
housing
policies
and
our
diversity
and
the
main
the
maintenance
and
growth
of
our
diversity
over
time.
One
of
the
things
that
we
are
doing
in
the
next
couple
weeks
is
actually
June.
J
18Th
I
wish
I
had
my
Flyers
printed
out,
but
I'll
just
show
you
my
beautiful
flyer,
June
18th,
we're
having
a
forum
called
confronting
diversity,
housing
policies
for
a
truly
inclusive
community.
That
is
inspired
in
part
by
this
book
that
we're
talking
about
tonight
we'll
be
talking
in
much
more
depth
about
some
of
the
realities
of
how
this
all
played
out
here
in
Arlington
and
our
surrounding
communities
and
what
we
can
do
about
it.
J
So
if
you
were
interested
in
getting
down
to
some
of
the
Arlington
specific
questions
and
some
of
the
solution
conversations
then
we'd
love
to
have
you
at
our
event.
You
can
come
visit
me
afterwards.
I'll
take
your
email
or
your
exchange
cards
and
we'll
get
the
information
to
you.
Our
website
is
Alliance
for
housing
solutions.
Org
you
can
go
there.
I
forgot
to
mention
the
biggest
news
about
this.
Is
that
Senator
Tim
Kaine
is
going
to
be
our
keynote
speaker,
so
June
18th,
we
hope
to
see
you
at
the
Clarendon
Ballroom.
G
We're
gonna
ask
the
truline
this
race
that
you're
not
blocking
the
door,
so
if
you
could
turn
them
on
in
a
little
bit,
yes,
please,
you
can
purchase
books
here.
How
much
are
the
books
books
are
19:03
with
tax
I'm
gonna
turn
the
line
in
just
a
little
bit,
so
we're
not
blocking
the
door.
Please.
Thank
you.