►
From YouTube: Northern Virginia and the rise of Rock and Roll
Description
A panel discussion organized by local documentarian and cultural historian Jeff Krulik, discussing the local history of rock and roll concert promotion in the 1960s and 70s. Several important local promoters take part in the discussion, including Durwood Settles, Teddy Bodnar, Michael Oberman, Mike Schreibman, and Bud Becker. This event was taped live at the Artisphere in Rosslyn, VA by AVN.
B
Well,
hello
and
welcome.
Thank
you
all
for
being
here.
My
name
is
Jeff
Krulak
and
I've
been
obsessed
with
rock
and
roll
history
in
the
Washington
Maryland
Virginia
area
for
quite
some
time.
I
grew
up
here
and
started
going
to
concerts,
of
course,
at
the
Capitol
Center,
but
I
was
always
curious
about
like
what
came
before
this.
You
know
machinery.
This
concert
industry.
What
we
have
here
is
a
chance
to
meet
really
the
founding
fathers.
B
In
my
opinion
of
what
is
now
a
a
business,
you
know
something
that's
at
least
locally
here
on
the
edge
of
the
panel
here.
The
was
just
left
far
left.
We
have
somebody
I'm,
really
thrilled
to
have
as
a
participant
and
his
name's
durwood
settles.
He
was
a
presence
here.
He
was
the
main
promoter
in
the
1960s
and
I.
Really
thank
you
for
being
here.
A
part
of
this
durwood
see
saddles
Teddy
Bodnar
is
next
to
him.
B
Teddy
did
shows
at
the
Elks
Club
on
route
50
and
at
and
Fairfax
and
worked
with
many
many
local
bands
in
the
1960s
also
had
his
own
recording,
studio,
American,
star,
recording
and
Muirfield,
and
you
know
so.
He
was
right
there
in
the
you
know,
bringing
acts
local
and
national
to
this
region.
Michael
Oberman.
You
now
know
his
work
as
nature.
B
So
next
to
him,
mike
schribman
still
active
in
the
business
running
in
the
Washington
area,
musicians,
association,
wham,
wam,
he's
coming
up
in
February
and
he's
still
active
involved,
I
used
to
go
to
his
concerts,
I'm
sure
many
of
you
did
too
new
era
concerts
a
new
era
among
many
other
businesses
running,
shows
to
my
left:
immediate
left,
bud
Becker.
When
we
first
met
I,
he
I
spent
about
eight
hours
with
him
and
we
still
didn't
cover
everything.
B
Bud's
been
involved
from
the
60s
to
the
present
you
name,
it
he's
been
their
domestic
sound
productions
out
of
Falls,
Church
hammer,
Jack's,
I'm,
sure
many
many
other
things
he
can
tell
you
about
right
now.
I
would
like
to
just
turn
it
over
to
them,
they're
all
seeing
each
other
in
some
cases,
for
the
first
time
in
years,
so
you're
witnessing
a
reunion
and
I
think
really
durwood.
How,
if
you
could,
just
maybe
each
of
you,
become
that
and
start
there
and
come
down
just
say
a
few
words.
B
C
First
off
I'm
from
Arlington,
Virginia
and
so
for
being
here,
there's
really
kind
of
a
pleasure
because,
most
folks,
when
you
go
off
from
Arlington,
you
say
well,
I'm
from
Washington
DC,
but
I'm
from
Arlington
and
so
Northern.
Virginia
is
the
focus
of
this.
But
we
did
our
things
in
Washington
as
well.
C
If
you
will
in
1967
where
I
embarked
on
my
put
my
foot
in
the
entrepreneurial
toe,
so
to
speak,
into
promoting
concerts
here
in
Washington,
and
so
my
first
concert
really
was
in
1967
at
the
Washington
Hilton
Ballroom
and
it
was
a
jazz
show
with
Dionne
Warwick
and
Cannonball
Adderley
and
Oscar
Brown
jr.
with
a
name
yo,
might
know.
Pd
Green
as
a
comedian
on
the
bill
who
had
just
gotten
out
of
Lorton
reformatory
and
that's
where
I
met
him
in
1967
and
Minh
dove
mine.
Until
the
day
he
died.
C
One
of
my
best
friends
actually
and
so
starting
with
me,
is
sort
of
late
in
the
60s,
because
I
promoted
in
the
late
60s
until
the
early
70s
or
early
1971.
If
you
will
and
I
came
to
Washington
with
after
doing
all
these
shows
in
New
York,
with
lots
of
connections
same
connections,
these
people
have
but
a
lot
of
them
were,
you
know,
face
to
face
connections,
handshake
connections,
I'd
see
them.
C
C
Attractions,
they
operated
out
of
the
super
Music
City
stores
and
they
operated
the
Carter
Barron
amphitheater
and
they
were
the
first
promoters
in
Washington,
in
fact,
in
the
United
States
to
produce
to
promote
The
Beatles
in
concert
they're,
the
ones
that
you
see
the
Beatles
getting
off
the
train
at
Union
Station
and
they
were
greeted
there
I'm
sure
and
escorted
to
their
concert
at
the
venue
Line
arena,
and
so
they
were
truly
big-time
promoters
for
what
it
was
at
that
time.
I
believe.
C
D
I'm
Ted
Bogner
I
started
in
the
music
business
in
1960.
I
was
only
16
years
old
and
I
met
lake
grey
and
Ray
Vernon,
and
they
had
a
recording,
studio,
downtown
and
I
started
working
with
them.
They
taught
me
a
lot
about
engineering
and
then
way
would
turn
most
of
it
over
to
me
and
then
I
started
promoting
in
1965
at
the
Elks
Club
and
back
then,
as
we
could
buy
acts
at
a
price
where
you
could
actually
promote
and
make
money.
D
It
was
a
small
value
as
I
think
the
actual
you
only
allowed
800
people,
but
we
always
put
14
on
your
hand
and
which
very
Angeles
is
an
interesting
story.
No
matter
who
I
brought
in
I
had
the
association
I
used
to
go
to
New
York
up
to
a
agency
up
there
every
week
and
I
would
pick
they
would
play
me
all
the
new
stuff
they
have
coming
in
and
I
would
try
to
pick
far
enough
in
advance
a
record
that
I
thought
was
going
to
be
a
hit
and
then
booked
that
act.
D
D
The
Fallen
Angels
put
so
many
people
in
the
Elks
Club
that
I
had
to
pay
to
have
the
walls
fixed
downstairs
because
they,
cracked,
the
walls
and
and
I,
said
I
promoted
there
for
three
years,
and
we
did
it
every
other
week
for
three
years
and
tickets
were
two
to
five
dollars,
depending
on
who
I
had
and
I
also
promoted
on
the
Wilson
line.
How
many
people
remember
the
world's
line?
It
was
a.
It
was
a
boat
that
went
from
Washington
DC
to
Marshall,
Hall
and
I.
D
Would
I
did
a
lot
of
on
be
on
there?
Wilson
Pickett
different
things,
and
that
was
that
was
very
successful.
I
never
had
a
show
in
either
location
where
I
lost
money.
They
I
made
money
on
every
single
show.
I
ever
did,
but
then
but
then,
as
he
was
saying,
I
mean
the
acts
became
so
much
money.
You
needed.
You
had
to
have
the
capital
Center
to
make
any
money
and
I
just
stopped
promoting.
B
E
My
brother
had
moved
to
Chicago
to
work
for
Mercury
Records
at
the
time
and
over
the
six-year
period,
I
interviewed
the
doors
Janis
Joplin
Otis
Redding,
you
name
it
I've
got
a
list
here.
If
anyone
wants
to
see
the
300
interviews,
which
my
brother
and
I
are
compiling
a
book
now,
because
he
wrote
the
column
for
three
years
and
I
wrote
it
for
six
years.
So
we
have
500
interviews
to
pick
from
during
the
time.
I
was
at
the
star,
I
discovered,
hip
edom.
E
Also-
and
the
star
was
a
rather
conservative
newspaper
and
I,
had
my
hair
growing
down
my
back
and
I
would
bring
my
German
Shepherd
into
work
with
me
and
eventually
I
started
managing
artists.
While
I
was
still
at
the
star
one
of
the
acts
Claude
Jones,
we
had
a
farm
between
Warrenton
and
Culpepper
and
they
were
kind
of
darlings
kind
of
the
hippy
darlings
of
the
Washington
scene
and
I've
got
a
funny
story.
E
David
Bowie
spent
his
first
night
in
the
United
States
1971
at
my
mother's
house,
in
Silver
Spring
Maryland,
and
we
went
to
the
airport.
My
brother
was
working
with
Bowie
at
the
time
and
I
was
writing
this
column
and
we
went
to
pick
him
up
at
Dulles
Airport.
We
waited
for
hours
because
he
had
been
in
a
full-length
purple
gown
on
the
plane,
so
customs
really
wanted
to
do.
Though,
twice
over
on
him,
we
took
him.
My
parents,
my
brother
and
I,
took
David
Bowie.
F
F
But
my
next
next
show
was
a
big
flop.
It
was
Ramsey
Lewis
and
Cannonball
Adderley
at
Constitution,
Hall
and
I
was
pretty
naive
in
the
business
at
that
point
and
I
used
to
go
to
durwood
and
ask
him
about
how
you
do
this
and
how
you
do
that
and
I.
Don't
think
durwood.
That
was
that
happy
to
give
me
information,
but
I
thought
we
were
doing
two
shows
and
I
had
a
lot
of
tickets.
That
I
didn't
expect
to
sell.
F
So
I
thought
I
would
give
him
out,
give
him
to
people
who
couldn't
afford
them
and
that
night
I
learned
my
first
lesson,
which
was
all
those
people
were
out
front,
selling
their
tickets
and
then
I
continued
on
in
the
business
working
in
other
clubs
and
then
promoting
concerts
till
just
about
the
present
day.
I.
G
Hear
wow
my
life
spans,
everybody
in
this
room
feel
like
touched,
everybody
they've
touched
me,
I'll
start.
If
I
will,
let
me
start
with
Teddy
I
came
down
in
the
Army.
I
was
a
Fort
Myers
person
and
landed
here
in
the
end
of
64
six
start
of
65
and
had
a
little
AM
radio
and
used
to
tune
in
J
a
the
DJ
was
on
wean
and
that's
how
I
first
heard
about
the
Elks
Lodge
shows
and
I
really
didn't,
know
Teddy.
G
At
that
time
we
became
friends,
good
friends
after
that
he
had
the
recording
studio
and
so
on.
But
the
shows
and
Jack
made
a
first
impression
on
me
and
through
that
I
started
a
long
story,
but
I
started
working
with
giant
music
in
Arlington,
Virginia
and
Falls.
Church
and
Jack
was
the
spokesperson
for
the
stores
which
were
owned
by
a
guy
named
Jack
Sheaffer.
G
Had
the
exclusive
franchise
on
that
and
Jack
Sheaffer
had
ampeg
and
Gibson
to
work
with,
so
what
happened
evolved
from
that
is
I
formed
a
booking
agency
because
I
had
connection
with
local
bands
through
giant
music
I'd
seen
what
was
going
on
and
the
idea
was
they
tagged
their
radio
spots
with
you
know.
If
you
want
a
book,
a
band
called
giant
music
and
they
would
call
I
was
in
the
army,
then,
and
they
would
take
down
the
information
at
four
o'clock
when
I
got
off
duty.
G
I
would
pick
up
the
leads,
call
everybody
back
and
start
booking
bands
that
were
buying
Gibson
and
ampeg
equipment
and
that
evolved
into
over
200
local
bands
that
I
had
semi
control
of
by
1968
and
in
the
interim
Jack
Alex
Jay.
The
DJ
was
starting
to
do
shows
at
the
Alexandra
roller
rink.
They
were
battle
of
the
bands
and.
A
G
Was
booking
lead
acts
and,
as
Teddy
and
durwood
have
expressed
these
bands,
the
pricing
forced
them
out
of
the
business
with
Jack?
There
was
no
pricing
because
he
was
the
records
and
the
band's
were
coming
in
pretty
much
for
gratis,
so
everything
that
went
in
to
the
till
went
in
to
Jack,
except
what
he
had
to
pay
out
for
expenses.
So
it
was
a
productive
time
period
during
the
early
roller
rink
days
and
that's
where
actually
I
got
to
learn
about
producing,
shows
at
the
roller
rink.
G
G
Exactly
exactly
and
durwood
had
a
little
different
take
on
production
that
he
thought
the
the
band's
a
to
actually
have
a
little
respect
other
than
Jack's
idea
in
those
days,
unfortunately,
was
now
you
just
go
up
there
singing
you
three
minutes
yeah!
Well
sketch
you
later,
so
we
with
durwood
it
was
a
whole
different
experience.
We
found
I
think
ekang.
Tain's
Capleton
company
was
the
first
scaffolding
company
and
we
brought
them
in
to
actually
build
a
stage
out
prior
to
that
time.
G
The
stage
consisted
of
if
you
have
any
old
pictures
of
the
Alexander
roller
rink,
there
was
a
big
organ
and
there
was
a
little
lip
behind
the
in
front
of
the
organ.
Then
there
was
an
area
where
you
could
skate
and
beyond
that
skating
area
was
a
big
bar
to
keep
the
skaters
in
and
what
happened
was
there
was
boards
put
over
that
lip
out
to
the
bar?
G
It
was
about
12
to
14
feet
deep,
and
that
was
what
everybody
worked
on
until
durwood
and
I
started
working
for
show
I
think
we
did
if
I
remember.
Right
was
Janis
Joplin
and
Jeff
Beck
opening
right
and
the
interesting
thing
about
that
was
Jeff
Beck
Rod
Stewart
was
the
lead
singer
and
we
didn't
I,
don't
know
about
you.
I
didn't
know
too
much.
I
thought
for
the
first
half
of
the
set
that
the
blonde
guy
was
Jeff
Beck,
but
it
was
extremely
successful.
G
I
remember
we
had
two
shows
and,
as
everyone
is
red,
Janice
could
be
a
little
unsettling
and
I
remember.
We
did.
The
first
show
cleared
the
hall
and
I
happened
to
be
at
the
side
stage
door
where
the
artist
came
in
for
the
second
show
and
I
don't
know
where
Janis
had
gone,
but
the
guard
there
didn't
realize
who
she
was
and
she
was
ready
to
swing
a
silver
Southern,
Comfort
flask
at
him
when
I
intervened
and
we
got
her
backstage.
But
the
distinctive
thing
I
remember
about
that.
G
G
20
yeah
in
the
spirit
of
attendee,
pod
and
and
I'll
jump
ahead.
One
second
about
that.
As
we
know,
Barry
Richards
and
I
went
on
and
did
shows
in
their
really
successful
shows.
The
Alice
Cooper
shows
the
first.
We
were
the
second
way
and,
as
Derwood
is
pointing
out
the
reason
that
came
to
a
startling
end
and
I
don't
know
Mike
did
you
do
the
article
Barry
Richards
was
interviewed
by
I?
G
Think
it's
you
know
the
Washington
Post
or
the
Evening
Sun
about
music
after
we
had
and
he
made
the
quote
yeah
this
is
going
to
become.
This.
Is
the
Fillmore
East?
What
happened?
Was
the
city
fathers
of
Alexandria
said?
What
is
this?
We
have
a
Fillmore
East
in
our
neighborhood,
and
that
was
the
beginning
of
the
end.
The
fire
marshals,
who
were
all
working
for
us,
the
off-duty
police,
were
all
our
buddies
and
working
for
us
all
of
a
sudden
turned
on
us
and
it
was
capacit
number
one.
G
It
was
capacity
and
we
I
know
we.
We
had
an
Alice
Cooper
show
in
there
and
then
after
doing
an
evening-
and
fortunately,
I
was
head
of
the
curb.
We
had
to
close
the
windows
down,
so
the
lighting
cos
Alice
had
you
know
if
you've
ever
seen
his
show
there
was
a
lot
of
special
effects
and
we
covered
the
all
of
the
windows
in
the
roller
rink
for
the
three
o'clock
show
and
fortunately,
I
knew
enough
to
get
fire
retardant
material
to
cover
it.
G
But
we
spent
15
minutes
I,
remember
with
fire
marshals,
trying
to
close
this
down
and
trying
to
burn
this
stuff.
They
had
cigarette
lighters
holding
this
stuff
up.
Fortunately,
they
couldn't
get
it
to
burn,
but
shortly
after
that,
it
was
the
roller
rink.
The
capacities
came
down
so
much
and
we
were
paying
for
acts
so
that
that
was
the
end
of
that
and
you
know
from
there.
You
know
yeah.
B
B
C
C
That
I
mean
mica.
Mike
Mike
is
a
friend
of
a
friend
of
the
party
here,
but
it
was
always
difficult.
It's
one
reason
you
had
security
aside
from
the
regular
folks
who
would
try
to
just
find
their
way
in
for
free.
There
were
those
who
felt
that
they
should
be
allowed
to
come
in
for
free
just
because
they
felt
the
music
belong
to
them.
You
know
where
that
comes
from
I
can't
say.
Let.
E
D
F
Was
a
organization
people
who
thought
the
music
should
be
free
and
they
went
as
far
as
to
print
up
tickets
for
the
show
and
handed
them
out
at
colleges
all
over
the
area,
and
that
night
we
had
at
least
a
few
hundred,
maybe
more
people
who
were
there
demanding
to
be
let
in
for
free,
and
it
was
like
a
battleground
and
I.
Remember.
At
the
end
of
the
night,
our
asurs,
our
volunteer
security
people
sitting
on
the
floor,
all
exhausted
with
broken.
F
C
E
Of
them
der
was
on
our
side
too
that
I
on
three
occasions,
I
had
promoters
pull
guns
on
me,
one
of
them
being
Dicky
Klotz
Minh,
his
henchman,
smothers
one
and
the
other
two
will
remain
unnamed.
But
there
were
a
lot
of
guns
around
and
if
you
ever
went
to
the
Bayou
in
the
old
days
and
thought
that
those
guys
at
the
door
were
big,
if
you
had
seen
what
was
under
their
shirts
and
I'm,
not
talking
about
their
genitally
I.
E
Talking
about
weapons,
you
would
have
been
blown
away.
Literally,
there
was
a
there
was
the
Peace
Love
contingent,
but
there
was
also
the
war
contingent
and
I
can
tell
you,
because
the
the
infamous
thing
that
happened
to
me
in
1967
was
walking
back
from
doing
a
story
on
a
group
that
was
playing
in
Georgetown.
I
was
attacked
and
had
a
monkey
wrench
put
through
my
skull.
So
I've
got
a
steel
plate
in
my
head
and
I
had
a
bottle
of
coke
broken
across
my
face
because
I
had
long
hair.
E
C
D
I
was
lucky
at
the
Elks
Club
I
had
a
younger
crowd.
I
was
really
like
16
to
18
was
the
crowd
and
we
had
some
rules
that
if
you
went
outside,
if
you
left
the
club,
you
couldn't
even
pay
to
come
back
in
and
I.
Remember
one
time
we
had
a
motorcycle
gang,
the
pagans
come
there,
they
were
all
older
I
was
at
the
door.
I
said,
look
guys.
How
would
you
come
in,
but
just
remember
these
walls
if
they
came
in,
they
walked
around.
D
A
D
C
I
first
came
to
Washington
after
my
show
at
the
Hilton,
the
jazz
show,
if
you
will
and
and
Dionne
Warwick
was
a
wonderful
artist
and
it
was
more
pop
than
jazz,
but
it
was
kind
of
across
the
board.
I
was
recruited
to
help
waxy
Maxie,
who
had
very
good
access
to
Motown
artists
and
one
particular
group
that
was
almost
impossible
to
get
was
the
temptations
you
just
had
to
know
somebody
and
they
were
as
popular
as
The
Supremes
almost
and
we
put
them
into
Uline
arena.
C
So
you
talked
about
the
Peace
Love
group
and
you
talked
about
the
war
people.
Then
there
are
your
hoodlums
I
mean
they're
they're,
just
they're
there
for
nothing,
but
to
make
a
fuss,
and
we
had
six
or
seven
thousand
people
in
the
Yulin
arena.
For
that
concert,
and
it
was
a
big
deal
and
it
was
in
the
same
community
that
wrote
the
Wilson
line
for
you
and
we
had
security
guards
who
were
not
up
to
it
and
they're
presumed.
C
We
were
told
there
were
gunshots
in
the
back
of
the
hall
when
the
shots
went
off,
everybody
began
to
just
depart
and
they
took
off.
They
went
down
North,
Capitol
Street
and
they
busted
in
jewelry,
store,
windows,
etc,
etc,
and
it
got
reported
on
the
national
news
on
huntley-brinkley
the
next
night.
So
imagine
we
were
not
crawling.
B
B
But
you
actually
I
mean
the
whole
idea
and
I
guess
durwood,
and
but
everybody
else
can
contribute
as
well.
You
basically
had
the
halls,
I
mean
nowadays.
You
know,
we
know
where
the
concerts
take
place
and
and
everything's
pretty
locked
down,
but
back
then
you
had
to
basically
shoehorn
it
them
in
anywhere
were
in
the
case
of
Merryweather
I'm
sure
they.
It
wasn't.
Rock
and
roll
wasn't
on
the
agenda
when
they
built
the
place,
and
so
it
just
to
go
in
or
the
color
that.
C
C
To
be
the
summer
home
for
the
Washington
National
Symphony
Orchestra
and
we
went
out
there.
I
went
out
there
and
met
with
the
guy
who
was
running
to
place
a
really
nice
fellow,
and
he
had
ties
at
the
Boston
Symphony
Orchestra.
His
girlfriend
was
Paul,
Whiting's
daughter
or
something
like
that,
and
I
basically
told
him.
You
know
you
guys
are
not
going
to
make
any
money.
If
you
don't
put
popular
music
in
here
and
Tiny
Tim
was
fairly
benign,
I
mean
Tiny.
Tim
was
a
guy
on
a
ukulele,
so.
C
You
know
it
was,
it
was
happening.
You
know
it's
a
happening
thing,
because
the
follow-on
was
Jimi
Hendrix
at
Merriweather,
Post
Pavilion,
and
that
was
that
was
a
big
deal.
It
closed
in
a
teeming
thunderstorm
I
mean
the
lights
went
out.
The
concert
ended
with
the
rains
coming
down,
but
that
was
that
was
the
first
concert
at
the
Merriweather
Post
Pavilion
was.
C
C
E
All
of
these
unbelievably
great
shows,
and
then
there
was
a
short
period
of
rock-and-roll
coming
in,
but
the
one
thing
we
haven't
gotten
to
is
the
Washington
Hilton
ballroom,
which
durwood
did
the
doors
there
and
I
was
there
and
during
the
concert,
two
guys
jumped
on
stage.
One
was
wearing
a
paper
mache
chicken
head
and
they
were
they
were
tackled
by
whoever
and
the
guy
who
wasn't
wearing
the
paper.
Mache
chicken
head
now
owns
the
premier
rock
and
roll
photo
gallery
on
the
East
Coast
Govinda
gallery.
C
There
was
a
time
after
I
stopped
doing
shows
at
the
Alexandria
roller
rink,
which
sort
of
transitioned
over
to
Barry
and
Budd
shows
there.
There
was
a
promoter
whose
name
I
never
knew
who
tried
to
establish
the
Virginia
theater
as
a
venue
to
do
concerts
as
well
and
I.
Think
it
was
fleeting.
It
just
didn't.
Last
did
a
couple
of
shows
a
couple
of
artists.
If
it
doesn't
hit,
you
don't
keep
doing
it
and
so
I
think
they
just
packed
up
their
bags
and
went
back
to
where
they
came
from
I.
Don't.
B
E
A
G
C
C
1930S
movie
theaters
that
had
boxes
on
the
side
and
a
very
high
balcony
and
I
lobbied
like
crazy
and
pitched
them
on
putting
a
concert
in
the
air,
and
it
was.
It
was
a
sensational
event
inside
the
theatre.
It
was
not
so
great
outside
the
theater
because
of
this
crowd
that
one
of
the
free
music,
but
that
was
a
one
and
only
and
it
would
have
been
a
sensational
place
for
downtown
one.
G
F
Warner
had
been
closed
for
about
four
years
and
it
was
a
movie
theater
that
opened
in
the
20s
and
I
talked
the
owner
into
letting
me
lease
the
place,
and
it
was
the
it
was
right
after
the
68
riots
and
no
businesses
had
moved
back
into
DC
during
that
time
period.
So
what
was
the
year
that
I
started?
It
was
76
and
we
we
got
all
sorts
of
publicity,
because
it
was
the
first
business
that
moved
back
and
I
did
a
lot
of
wonderful
shows
there.
C
C
I
believe
I
paid
Jimi
Hendrix,
seventy
five
hundred
dollars
for
two
shows,
and
while
that
was
a
lot
of
money,
he
complained
walking
out
of
the
hall
that
night.
He
personally,
as
we
strolled
out
the
same
secret
pathway
that
Ronald
Reagan
emerged
from
to
get
shot
from.
He
he
turned
to
me,
and
he
said
I
should
have
been
on
a
percentage
tonight,
and
so
that
was
one
of
those
where
I
said:
chalk
and
chalk
one
up
for
the
promoters
kept
on
marching
it.
F
C
Five
nights
for
me:
six
months
later,
he
got
$7,500
for
two
shows
on
one
day,
and
that
was
a
flat.
If
he'd
been
on
a
percentage,
he
too
probably
doubled
his
money.
The
first
I
heard
about
pricing
was
when
Robert
Stigwood,
who
was
manager
for
cream
and
I,
remember
sitting
in
the
box
office
with
him
in
the
Baltimore
Civic
Center
and
his
his
remark
to
me
about
looking
at
the
manifest
for
the
tickets
as
we
were
settling
up.
He
says.
C
Oh,
you
had
a
$10
ticket
here,
which
was
kind
of
unheard
of
in
1969
to
go
as
high
as
ten
dollars
and
we
began
to
hear
prices
flat.
The
guarantee
prices
for
a
band
like
the
Bee
Gees
at
$35,000,
a
concert-
and
this
was
after
we're,
used
to
pay-
and
maybe
five
and
seven
thousand
and
you're
you're
saying
to
yourself.
Where
am
I
going
to
take
these
folks,
where
I
can
cover
thirty-five
thousand
plus
the
hall
plus
the
advertising
plus
the
services?
C
And
then
you
have
to
start
asking
yourself:
can
you
can
you
sell
enough
tickets
to
cover
this
not
forget
about
the
size
of
the
hall?
Can
you
sell
and
I
didn't
believe
in
the
Bee
Gees
at
the
time,
so
I
was
kind
of
incredulous
to
hear
that
and
then
the
percentages
began
to
creep
up.
I
mean
we
used
to
settle
on
50/50
deals,
which
was
a
you
know,
a
classic
wholesale
retail
margin.
C
If
you
buy
a
thing
for
something
to
mark
it
up
twice:
Alton
store,
that's
that's
a
classic
wholesale
retail
formula,
but
they
would
creep
up
60,
60
percent,
70
percent,
80
and
now
I
think
the
deals.
Are
they
pay
the
promoters
a
flat
fee
and
take
everything
after
expenses?
So
I
mean
simple
as
that
to.
E
Me
the
beginning
of
the
end
of
independent
promoters,
because
I
did
spend
a
year
working
for
Jack
Boyle
when
I
left
the
Washington
star
I
went
to
work
for
a
Warner
electorate,
lanta
Corporation,
which
was
the
distribution
arm
for
Warner
Brothers
Elektra
in
Atlantic
Records
hated
that
hated
working
for
record
companies,
Jack
Boyle
hired
me
as
his
assistant
one
day.
Jack
said
you
know
some
of
the
acts
I've
got
here
like
Gordon
Lightfoot,
we're
filling
the
place
six
nights
a
week.
Why
don't?
E
We
do
them
one
night
in
a
concert
hall,
so
Jack's
first
concert
was
Gordon,
Lightfoot,
Constitution,
Hall
and
then
cellar-door
grew
and
grew
and
grew
into
this
monolithic
organism,
eventually
getting
the
exclusive
contract
when
the
Capitol
Center
was
built,
I,
remember
jack.
Tossed
me,
the
keys
to
his
Mercedes
said:
deliver
this
to
a
Pollan.
E
It
was
a
contract
that
barred
anyone
else
from
using
the
Capitol
Center
for
music,
without
going
through
Jack,
Boyle
and
cellar-door
productions
and
to
me
that
was
really
the
death
knell
of
independent
promotion,
and
you
know
when
I
think
now
about
a
major
concert
being
$200
for
a
good
seat
as
opposed
to
$5
in
those
days.
I.
Don't
think
inflation
and
salaries
have
ratcheted
up
that
much.
It's
greed
and
corporate
America,
taking
over
the
music
industry
and
I'm
glad
I'm,
not
in
it
except.
D
E
Me
throw
him
one
thing
about
the
the
way
groups
caused
tickets
to
go
up
I,
because
when
I
was
working
in
cellar
door,
we're
doing
the
Grateful
Dead,
the
Capitol
Center
and
I
was
the
guy
who
ought
to
read
the
riders
to
the
contract.
So
the
basic
contract
was
just
a
page
or
two.
The
rider
could
be
30
or
40
pages,
and
you
would
you
won't
believe
this,
but
in
the
Grateful
Dead's
contract
it
called
for
this
is
for
the
road
crew
of
about
90
people,
filet,
mignon,
and
lobster
on
fine
china
for
lunch.
C
This
strange
idea.
He
in
New,
York
and
I
in
Baltimore
would
go
across
the
street
to
the
Kentucky
Fried
Chicken
and
got
a
bucket
of
chicken
and
put
it
in
the
dressing
room.
For
these
guys
to
come
in
and
I
will
never
forget.
Peter
Grant
sitting
there
chewing
on
a
drumstick
saying
you
and
your
mate.
You
really
know
how
to
take
care
of
us.
Don't
you
I.
C
Say
in
74,
so
there
was
there's
a
lot
of
scrambling
going
on
and
for
me
the
first
thing
I
did
was
basically
a
social
club
show
in
the
Hilton
ballroom
with
a
fellow
club,
owner
and
and
local
entrepreneur,
Mike
O'hara,
which
people
may
or
may
not
know
he
had
a
organization
called
Joppa
that
was
for
for
junior
officer,
Professionals
Association
and
they
would
move
from
Club
to
club
and
he
and
I
collaborated
on
a
concert
at
the
Hilton
Ballroom.
So
it
went
okay,
it
was
a.
C
We
didn't
make
any
money,
but
the
Hilton
people
were
okay
with
it.
So
hence
I
come
in
with
the
doors.
Okay,
we'll
do
it.
It's
done,
there's
jimi
hendrix
and
then
we
start
scrambling
for
other
venues
and
that's
when
I
moved
over
to
the
Alexandria
roller
rink,
where
I
must
have
done
a
half
a
dozen
shows
I
guess
and
tried
tried
to
establish
the
notion
of
a
Fillmore
East
without
calling
at
that,
not
that
I
had
the
foresight
to
recognize
they
wouldn't
like
it,
but
that
was
the
purpose
of
that
said.
C
C
Jefferson
Airplane
was
was
in
the
Sheraton
Park
Hotel,
that
was
in
late,
67,
Bill
Graham
came
through
and
he
did
it
in
collaboration
with
the
owners
of
the
cellar
door
at
the
time,
Tom,
Lyons
and
Charlie
Fishman.
They
asked
me
to
promote
it,
for
him
and
I
did
and
then
the
Hilton
Ballroom,
and
then
there
was
another
facility.
Then
there,
of
course
there
was
Uline
arena,
but
mostly
those
were
rhythm
and
blues
shows
I
mean
the
temptations
were
no.
G
He
was
here
was
the
excuse
me
yeah.
We
talked
about
it.
Here's
the
emcee,
let
me
can
I
fill
in
some
holes.
G
Let's
go
back
to
cellar
door
and
Jack
Boyle.
Now
what
happened
there
was
you
have
to
back
up
to
Charlie,
Fichman
and
Tom
Lyons,
who
own
cellar-door
nightclub
and
what
it
was
actually
a
concert
venue
before
Jack
got
it
Jack.
If
I
remember
jack,
had
the
Crazy
Horse,
the
wasn't
he
down
at
the
Crazy
Horse.
D
G
Was
a
bar
man
personally
now,
when
you
can
correct
me
if
I'm
wrong,
but
from
my
understanding
of
everything
when
he
when
Charlie
Fichman
got
tired
and
he
did
get
tired
and
decided
to
move
out
on
his
yacht
on
the
three-mile
limit
and
sold
the
club
to
Jack
what
he
also
sold.
Him
was
a
stack
of
contracts
that
Charlie
had
first
play.
He
was
one
of
the
first
people
to
put
in
a
contract.
G
Was
involved,
that's
Jay
that
was
Jack
had
just
taken
over
shortly
at
that
point,
and
he
had
all
these
contracts
it
to
be.
I
mean
great
guy
and
I
love
him
to
death
for
a
number
of
reasons,
but
he
didn't
know
anything
about
half
of
the
bands
that
were
sitting
in
these
contracts.
But
what
he
had
is
he
had
return
options
and
you're
right.
He
looked
at
the
return
option
for
John
Denver
and
said:
hey.
G
We
can
do
John
Denver
in
the
room
for
five
nights
or
I
can
do
him
a
constitution
Hall
for
one
in
3,800
and
that's
how,
if
you
really
go
to
the
reality.
In
my
mind,
Charlie
Fishman,
created
cellar-door
concerts
by
virtue
of
that
and
and
Jack,
was
a
quick
learner
and
also
he
tied
in
with
you.
As
you
mentioned,
the
late
Sam,
aha
Madhu,
which
is
one
of
the
nicest
most
honest
people
I've
ever
met.
So
it
was
just
a
growth
thing.
Unfortunately,.
E
It
became
oil
and
water
between
Jack
and
Sam,
because
I
worked
there
once
this
mysterious
attorney,
Sam
law,
Hamid
ooh
I
found
out
was
a
partner
in
the
cellar-door
brought
his
office
in
my
office
was
right
in
between
Jack's
and
Sam's,
and
Jack
would
buzz
me
and
say:
do
this
and
Sam
would
buzz
me
and
say:
do
the
opposite?
Sam
also
had
the
unique
ability
to
call
you
at
6:30
in
the
morning,
knowing
that
you
had
been
at
the
club
until
2:00
in
the
morning
it
was
craziness,
but
there's
there's
there's
one
funny
story.
E
F
E
Remember
then,
waking
up
in
this
vomit
and
saying,
oh,
my
god,
who
vomited
here
and
I,
went
into
Sam
Mohammed
OU's
office
and
fell
asleep
on
his
couch.
Sam
came
in
at
3:00
in
the
morning.
He
lived
in
Georgetown
to
do
the
books
and
he
came
into
his
office
and
I
was
asleep
on
his
couch
and
he
shook
me
awake
and
he
said:
hey
Mike,
do
you
know
who
vomited
in
Jack's
office
so
I
mean
while
jack?
Also,
just
you
know,
I
love,
Jack
Boyle
I
mean
Jack.
E
Boyle
ended
up
selling
cellar-door
concerts
for
a
hundred
and
thirty
two
million
dollars,
so
you
got
a
glove,
a
guy
who
started
out
really
winning
some
of
his
clubs
playing
poker.
People
never
realized
how
smart
a
guy
Jack
was.
He
did
his
master's
degree
at
the
University
Madrid,
but
he
liked
coming
off
kind
of
as
the
bumpkin
I've
never
played
gin
rummy
with
somebody
who
could
win
every
hand.
Jack
could
and.
B
Here's
another
obvious
ly,
a
report
name
in
the
business
I
think
one
thing
I'm
going
back
to
the
O
roller
rink
and,
and
some
of
the
shows
there.
The
one
thing
that
I
was
intrigued
with
when
I
learned
was
when
the
doors
played
that
was
a
they
were
on,
had
played
earlier
in
the
day
at
in
Annapolis
at
the
Armory,
but
they
were
literally
on
a
bill
with.
G
This
is
my:
this
was
my
learning
curve.
What
Jack
Alex
would
do
with
these
battle
of
the
bands
at
the
Alexander
roller
rink
is
put
him
on
the
floor,
all
the
way
around
the
rink
and
each
band
would
set
up,
and
then
there
was
a
quote
battle
and
of
course
one
of
those
bands
won
$100,
but
what
was
happening
his
fuses
were
blowing
because
the
everybody
was
plugging
into
a
different
wall
socket
and
he
had
bands,
and
then
you
couldn't
see
half
of
the
band
and
the
other
thing
was.
G
There
was
animosity
between
all
these
bands
because
everybody
wanted
to
be
the
you
know
the
winner,
so
there
was
no
camaraderie
and
nobody
was
making
any
money.
I
put
him
together.
We
got
the
stage
and
now
what
happened
he
had
eight
or
nine
bands.
He
had
the
hounds
of
Baskerville
Gary
Scott
in
the
Brooke
woods,
whoever
all
of
them
after
the
show
when
I
was
booking.
G
If
somebody
called
and
needed
a
band
for
a
homecoming
I
go,
oh
the
hounds
of
Baskerville
I,
don't
know
them
well,
you
know
they
were
on
the
show,
with
the
doors
oh
okay
well
sold,
and
we
had.
We
had.
You
know
twelve
bands
that
were
all
on
the
show,
with
the
doors
and
the
doors
started
that
night
in
at
the
Armory
National
Guard
Armory
in
Annapolis
for
Kirby.
So
we
needed
something
obviously
to
keep
everybody
going
till
the
door
got
there.
So
we
had
eight
or
ten
local
bands,
and
this
was
Thanksgiving
Eve.
G
We
always
did
the
night
before
and
so
they
we
kept
playing
at
them
playing
and
then
a
guy
named
Nelson
who
worked
for
me.
I,
never
forgot,
he
had
a
Corvair
and
he
put
the
guys
in
the
Corvair
in
Annapolis
drove
him
to
the
Alexander
roller
rink,
with
a
stop
for
Jim
Morrison
adult
at
a
liquor
store
on
that.
G
Whatever
that
route
was
to
get
a
six-pack
of,
but
he
couldn't
go
any
further
and
came
in
to
the
roller
rink,
and
we
put
him
on,
he
did
his
show
and
he
did
in
fact,
we've
still
got
the
interview
somewhere
speedy
Reno.
Who
was
writing
the
columns?
I've
got
this.
She
got
an
interview
backstage
with
Jim
Morrison
after
that,
but
that's
that
was
the
whole
concept
of
a
lot
of
these
shows
was
the
local
bands.
We
put
the
local
bands
to
fill
the
night
and
for
domestic
sound
productions.
G
B
Guess
there
were
other
I
mean
clearly
there
were
other
promoters
and
other
people
doing
this
kind
of
thing
that
you
know
in
the
bit
in
the
in
this
area.
But
you
know
I
really
do
thank
the
all
five
of
you
for
being
a
part
of
this
panel.
I
mean
I
couldn't
have
done
this.
Is
it
extraordinary
to
me
that
you
were
able
to
be
here
and
I
can't?
Thank
you.
B
Not
I
really
really
appreciate
it,
as
does
the
audience,
and
is
there
anything
that
you
want
to
say
a
final
words
adder
Witek,
you
know
you
really
were
you
know
you
were
right
there
and
they
saw
these
artists
and
we
had
a
conversation.
Originally.
You
know
you
were
very
kind
to
me,
but
I
know
this
is
really
special
to
have.
You
come
out
and
participate
well.
C
Thank
you
for
that
I
just
it
was
a
really
interesting
and
a
pretty
exciting
time,
and
it
was
really
in
hindsight
it
was
a
genuine
transition
from
little
tiny
baby
steps
of
music.
The
promotion
business,
of
course
exploded
in
the
next
10
to
20
years.
It
just
turned
into
as
so
much
in
the
country
did
and
we
didn't
even
realize
we
were
living
through
a
pretty
significant
transition
in
American
life,
not
to
put
too
big
a
picture
on
it,
but
radio
was
changing.
C
The
the
riots
had
occurred,
of
course,
the
Vietnam
War
protests
and
all
that
stuff,
but
the
music
business
suddenly
just
took
off
and
I
guess
the
biggest
motor
behind.
That
was
the
building
of
these
big
buildings
around
the
country,
where
these
big
acts
could
play
and
make
all
this
money,
and
it
just
changed
everything
and.
C
C
What's
the
80
Columbia
Road,
all
the
way
to
Adams
Morgan
to
come
into
this
show,
you
knew
something
was
happening
and
it
Elvis
happened
in
that
way.
I
guess
the
Sinatra
phenomenon
in
the
40s
was
that
way,
and
you
began
to
see
the
crowds
appear
for
these
bands,
and
you
said
something
was
happening
and
the
music
business
was
was
transforming
in
a
significant
way
during
those
years
and
into
the
in
the
early
70s.
C
F
Went
from
group
story
in
the
country
in
those
packages
that
we
talked
about
earlier,
where
there
were
five
or
ten
groups
on
a
show,
and
they
each
played
20
minutes
to
the
groups
being
shook
showcase
artists
and
wanting
the
whole
show
for
themselves
and
I'm,
not
saying
that
in
a
negative
way.
I'm
just
saying
that
the
whole
business
changed
I.
E
Think
one
thing
we've
left
out:
we
haven't
mentioned
the
Birch
mirror
and
how
important
they
are
not
only
to
Northern
Virginia
but
to
the
world
of
that
genre
of
music
and
Seth
Hurwitz
and
I
MP
productions,
because
once
Seth
started
with
a
9:30
club
and
Jack
Boyle
didn't
jump
on
the
kind
of
act
set.
Was
booking
Seth
built
up
iymp.
So
there's
still
some
promoters
here
in
the
Washington
area
who
found
a
niche
market,
but.
E
B
A
Plus
Bob
Brady
and
the
Conchords
plus
the
chiffons
on
the
same
show
ten
of
the
area's
greatest
fans.
It's
a
show.
It's
a
dance.
It's
by
solid
hours
of
shop
entertainment.
This
Thursday
night
at
the
Alexandria,
read
on
st.
Asaph
Street
in
Alexandria
between
team
red
coats,
Bob
Bruce,
Robinson,
Russ,
wheeler
and
Walter
Jones
boy
in
person
no
school
in
Virginia
the
next
day,
so
make
your
plans
now
from
the
wing
teams,
all
stars
showing
dance
Thursday
night
November
3rd
at
the
Alexandria
arena,
st.
Asaph,
Street,
Alexandria,
7:00
till
midnight.