►
From YouTube: The Irish Famine Lecture Series: Hunger, Starvation & Cost-of-Living Crises in Ireland after Famine.
Description
Hunger, Starvation & Cost-of-Living Crises in Ireland after the Famine I Thursday 2 February I Dr. Ian Miller, Ulster University
Ian Miller is a lecturer in medical history at Ulster University. He has authored seven books on topics including the stomach, self-esteem, Irish dietary change after the Famine and the force-feeding of hunger strikers. He is PI on the podcast-based project www.epidemic-belfast.com. Ian has recently secured AHRC and UKRI funding for three projects covering Irish food poverty, mental health care in Northern Ireland and engaging local Northern Irish communities with medical history and heritage.
A
Hello,
everyone
I'd
like
to
introduce
our
speaker,
Dr
Ian
Miller
from
the
Ulster
University
Ian,
will
be
talking
about
Hunger
starvation
and
the
cost
of
living
crisis
in
Ireland
after
famine,
Ian
is
a
lecturer
in
medical
history,
adults
University.
He
has
authored
seven
books
on
topics
including
the
stomach,
self-esteem,
Irish,
dietary
change
of
the
famine
and
force
feeding
of
hunger,
Strikers
I'm.
Sorry
he's
delivering
a
variety
of
funds
of
projects
covering
Irish
food
poverty,
Mental
Health,
Care,
Northern,
Ireland
and
engaging
local
Irish;
sorry,
local
Northern,
Irish
communities
with
medical
history
and
Heritage.
B
A
B
B
Brilliant
man,
thank
you.
Thank
you
for
inviting
me
today.
I
guess.
A
lot
of
what
I'll
talk
about
today
is
actually
more
about
what
happened
after
the
famine
and
perhaps
a
bit
less
about
the
famine
itself,
but
but
I
hope
to
bring
in
bring
A
New
Perspective,
maybe
on
new
ideas
about
how
we
understand
the
history
of
food
and
hunger
and
starvation
in
modern
Island.
B
A
lot
of
this
stems
some
research
which
I
did
about
a
decade
ago,
which
was
funded
by
the
Irish
research
Council
and
in
that
project
I
wanted
to
look
at
what
happened
after
the
family
in
relation
to
food.
So
how
did
we
get
from
the
potato
diet,
which
everyone
kind
of
knows
the
basics
about
into
a
richer,
a
more
varied
diet
after
the
famine
overall,
my
conclusion,
which
I'll
elaborate
on
as
I,
proceed
and
was
obviously
the
average
population
quickly
abandoned
the
dependence
upon
the
potato
diets
from.
A
B
B
Don't
use
the
Zoom
very
often,
if
I'm
being
honest
so.
A
B
A
B
Okay,
so
I
guess.
My
main
argument
was
that,
yes,
the
Irish
diet
became
much
more
Vivid
after
the
famine.
People
were
less
vulnerable
to
starving
to
death
because
obviously
influences
dependence
on
one
cup,
but
people
became
less
nutritionally
healthy,
so
more
variety
are
variety
to
more.
Food,
didn't
necessarily
results
in
improved
health
and
I
would
argue
that
National
Nutritional,
Health
declined
and
remained
very
low
and
so
well
into
the
20th
century
well
into
the
40s
and
50s.
B
I
was
also
interested
in
developing
new
research
on
this
recently,
because,
just
where
I'm
from
in
Lancashire,
you
do
hear
of
kind
of
people
who
were
a
bit
older,
remembering
times
in
the
50s
and
60s,
when
they
didn't
have
any
food
on
the
table
every
day,
necessarily
and
especially
if
they
came
from
a
large
family
where
food
had
to
be
sheared
out,
obviously
from
the
1970s.
B
So
we
become
much
more
interested
in
obesity
and
those
kind
of
issues
and
it
may
be
diabetes
and
the
negative
impacts
of
overeating
I
guess
are
having
access
to
the
wrong
types
of
food,
but
once
again
recently,
of
course,
with
the
cost
of
living
crisis.
This
idea
that
people
might
go
without
so
they
might
prioritize
eating
that
house
over
eating
or
feeding
the
children,
and
things
like
that.
These
have
all
become
issues
once
again.
B
So
part
of
this
paper
does
go
back
to
that
older
research
which
I
did
about
a
decade
ago
and
but
I've
also
been
doing
some
new
research
over
the
last
a
few
months,
I
guess,
which
hopefully
will
help
to
address
some
some
of
the
matters
which
are
once
again
A
Reason.
So
this
paper
is
going
to
be
a
book
chapter
in
in
a
book
being
collated
by
the
TU
Dublin
team.
B
As
some
of
you
might
know,
there's
a
few
studies
and
Gastronomy
kind
of
Center
down
there
and
I
commenced
this
chapter
with
a
story
from
1927
which
you
should
hopefully
be
able
to
see
on
the
screen.
B
With
the
death
of
Daniel
Sullivan
in
West
cork,
for
most
of
his
life,
Daniel's
family
had
lived
quite
prosperously
before
independence
came,
the
British
fleets
had
been
stationed
in
the
local
Harbor
down
there,
which
provided
Daniel
with
a
ready
market
for
his
farm
produce,
which
is
foals
his
eggs.
However,
after
Independence,
the
family
fell
on
Hard
Times
Daniel
applied
to
the
West
cook
Board
of
assistance,
but
they
wouldn't
give
him
any
relief
on
the
basis
that
he
owned
a
bit
of
land
and
but
that
didn't
necessarily
help
him
to
feed
himself
and
the
family.
B
So
in
consequence
of
that
decision
the
family
had
no
money
to
buy
food
with
and
began
to
slowly
starve.
One
Saturday
a
neighbor
visited
Daniel's
house
and
found
Mrs
Sullivan
lying
dead
on
the
floor.
Daniel
and
his
five
children
were
now
shaving
space
with
an
amazing
emaciated
corpse
all
the
remaining
family
members
look
sick,
weekly,
they
didn't
have
any
beds.
The
bed
clothes
these
lights
on
Hay.
The
only
food
in
the
house
was
a
few
pounds
of
yellow
meal
and
half
a
loaf
of
bread.
B
The
following
Tuesday
17
year
old,
Timothy
and
four-year-old
Rita
also
died,
thrown
into
grief
and
suffering.
Daniel
became
demented
to
use
the
term
using
the
newspapers.
Back
then
there
was
an
inquest
and
cries
of
47
were
heard,
a
reference,
of
course
to
the
worst
year
of
the
famine,
but
newspapers
were
usually
quite
sympathetic
to
the
plight
of
these
families.
B
B
Beyond
the
more
obvious
things
we
associate
with
hunger
in
Ireland,
hunger
strikes,
for
instance,
and
the
famine
they're
not
to
minimize
the
the
you
know
how
bad
everything
was
during
the
Famine
of
anything
like
that,
but
just
to
kind
of
remember
these
other
stories
in
between
and
to
think
about,
Hunger,
not
as
something
confined
to
these
politicized
or
unusual
or
severe
events,
but
maybe
more
as
a
day-to-day
experience.
For
many
people
in
Ireland,
laughs,.
A
B
So
I'll
just
restart
that
paragraph
I'm.
Sorry,
thank
you.
So
I
guess
one
of
the
aims
to
think
about
Hunger
beyond
the
well-known
events,
such
as
the
famine
and
also
the
hunger
strikes
as
well
I'm,
not
trying
to
suggest
in
it
in
any
way.
You
know
that,
just
because
hunger
was
quite
common
in
Ireland
all
the
time
that
these
events
weren't
horrific
in
any
way
so
I'm
not
trying
to
go
within
that
particular
path.
B
But
I
am
trying
to
maybe
remember
avicol
stories
which
which
have
been
forgotten
about
and
and
people's
day-to-day
life
and
experience
outside
of
these
tragic
or
politicized
events.
So
I
guess
I'm
trying
to
think
about
Hunger
the
normality
of
hunger
and
starvation
rather
than
its
occurrence
in
these
more
exceptional
circumstances,
I'm
going
to
define
the
hunger,
as
the
discussion
mentioned,
though
I'm
not
going
to
try
to
do
anything
like
retrospectively
put
on
modern
terms
to
things
that
happened
in
the
past.
B
B
B
If
there
is
a
kind
of
lively
field
of
kind
of
gastronomy
studies
and
popular
history,
books
which
are
very
enjoyable
and
but
which
I
think
do
tend
to
romanticize
Ireland's
dietary
past
in
many
ways,
I
won't
pick
up
particular
examples
like
some
of
them
have
written
by
chefs,
for
particular
purposes,
for
encouraging
people
to
think
about
the
food
Heritage
of
particular
areas
and
they're
very
good
reads,
but
you
do
find
that
they'll
have
a
Chats
on
T
as
a
traditionally
traditional
drink,
often
consumed
in
Ireland
and
they'll.
B
Have
images
such
as
these
more
polite
tea
parties,
but
I
think
this
overlooks
how
tea
historically
was
associated
with
distress
with
poverty
and
despair,
and
that
many
women
came
to
over
rely
on
T
after
the
famine,
often
maybe
just
consuming
a
few
slices
of
bread
and
things
like
that
after
the
farming,
tea
became
cheaper
and
much
more
accessible
to
the
Irish
poor.
B
One
evidence
is
that
going
back
to
the
previous
paper
is
comical
graders
Research
into
prison
records
because,
as
he
went
through
prisons,
he
tended
to
be
measured
to
see
how
tall
you
were.
So,
if
you
look
at
these,
how
that
changed
over
the
decades
comical
guarda
does
note
that
people
seem
to
become
shorter
as
they
entered.
Prison
I've
lead
to
a
lot
more
written,
Material,
Girl
commissions
and,
and
things
like
that
and
by
the
1890s.
B
Those
old
enough
to
remember
the
pre-faming
times,
observed
a
population
who
were
declined
both
physically
immensely
in
their
View,
and
this
wasn't
simply
Nostalgia
the
potato
diet.
Obviously
it
had
his
problems,
but
it
had
provided
reasonably
solid
nutrition.
For
many
people
and
the
same
couldn't
be
said
necessarily
for
the
diets
to
replace
the
potato
diets,
particularly
if
you
were
in
a
situation
where
you
did
come
to
rely
heavily
upon
the
tea
and
widespread
diets,
most
families
had
limited
cooking
skills.
Knowledge
education
about
food
milk
was
often
adulterated.
B
So
it's
in
that
context
that
many
Irish
families
begin
to
live
upon
a
Frugal
diet,
often
lacking
in
nutrition.
That
did
consist
largely
of
tea
and
white
bread
and
I
think
that
the
new
newspapers
often
report
or
this
family,
with
tea
and
white
bread
diets
I
think
it
was
a
kind
of
cold
almost
back,
then
that
the
symbolizes
impending
descents
a
hunger
starvation
poverty,
maybe
even
deaths,
also
like
the
story
of
Daniel.
B
Before
those
comments
upon
what
they
were
eating
in
the
house,
as
a
sign
of
how
horrific
things
we're
getting
and
for
that
particular
family
in
the
19th
century,
if
you
were
found,
starving
or
starved
to
death,
you
may
not
necessarily
receive
too
much
sympathy
and
even
in
the
Press
at
the
time
often
hunger
was
blamed
on
people,
people
being
work,
shy
or
lacking
more
fiber,
or
you
know
not
making
enough
effort
to
go
to
work
and
to
feed
their
family
simultaneously.
Mothers
were
often
blamed
for
maybe
not
cooking
well
enough,
and
things
like
that.
B
Obviously,
these
narratives
in
different
ways
still
frame
a
lot
of
discussion,
our
derogatory
discussion
about
food
poverty
and
those
kind
of
issues
which
which
have
returned
today
and
but
it
was
often
seen-
and
you
can
see
the
people
are
dates
and
how
bad
they
were,
but
they
were
designed
maybe
to
remind
people
who
enter
the
workhouse.
You
know
what
the
importance
of
working
and
that
you
can
only
deserve
to
eat.
If
you
go
out
and
work
and
make
money
and
things
like
that,
19th
century
doctors
were
often
harsh.
B
B
To
ensure
that
they
grew
up
physically
healthy,
so
I
think,
like,
like
I,
mentioned
these
decisions
being
made
today
by
families
about
work
to
prioritize
heating,
food
and
those
kind
of
things
and
in
some
ways,
I
think
that
these
working
class
19th
century
mothers
after
the
famine
that
are
quite
comparable
in
many
ways
about
the
decisions
which
they're
making
I.
Don't
personally
believe
they
were
recklessly
seeking.
Hedonistic,
pleasure,
an
addiction,
but
I
will
see
them
to
use
a
modern
term
again
as
having
slipped
into
food
and
poverty.
B
There
was
General,
Trends
or
I
think
to
towards
thinking
not
so
much
about
the
personal
and
moral
causes
of
a
poor
diet,
and
but
there
were
often
another
narrative
emerging
which
looked
towards
a
structural
factors,
a
social
and
economic
conditions
which
position
families
in
in
ways
that
they
can
no
longer
be
able
to
buy
food
or
purchase.
Food
I
think
the
the
nationalist
movements
were
actually
quite
good
at
drawing
attention
towards
these
structural
factors
and
moving
the
conversation
away
from
Individual
behavior
and
blaming
mothers.
B
Obviously
they
tended
to
blame
the
British
for
absolutely
everything,
and
but
that
does
mean
that
their
mothers
are
being
blamed
for
everything
anymore.
There's
an
idea
that
if
Ireland
was
Independence,
it
would
be
self-sufficient,
it
would
be
prosperous,
it
wouldn't
keep
on
exporting,
nutritious
foods
to
Britain
and
but
we'll
be
able
to
better
feed
itself
and
its
families
that
there
was
a
narrative
that
came
about
a
more
gone
on.
The
screen
here
was
very
good
at
talking
about
this
and
Sinn
Fein
as
well.
B
During
the
first
world
war,
there
were
claims
that
Britain
had
a
long-term
agenda.
We
stretch
back
to
the
Famine
of
starving
Island
into
submission
that
no
longer
could
I
am
Britain
reasonably
get
away
with
committing
acts
of
genocide
in
their
View.
B
But
people
like
Morgan
did
think
about
the
economic
systems,
the
exploitation
of
food
and
meats
to
Britain,
and
they
argue
that
since,
if
I
mean
maybe
the
British
governments
had
just
been
insidiously
undermining
Irish
Health
in
more
subtle
ways,
so
Madcon
was
particularly
active
in
relation
to
school
meals.
B
In
the
from
the
late
19th
century,
children
were
respected
to
go
to
school.
If
not,
the
permits
could
be
fined.
Sometimes
that
was
seasonal.
They
were
given
certain
times
of
the
year
off
to
help
with
the
Harvester
or
whatever
they
might
have
to
do.
B
But
there
was
no
thought
given
to
how
these
children
were
to
be
fed
once
they
were
at
school
and
obviously,
if
you're,
in
a
situation
where
you
can
barely
afford
to
feed
your
children,
your
family,
while
you're
in
the
house,
you
know
Pat
lunch
and
things
like
that
was
not
an
option
back
then.
So
this
is
a
campaign
which
Morgan
got
really
really
invested
in
in
1906.
B
The
the
British
government
made
School
meals
available
in
England
and
Wales
to
children
who
could
not
afford
them,
which
was
fine
if
you
lived
there,
but
Island
was
excluded
from
that
legislation
and
gone
really
got
quite
angered
about
this.
She
described
it
provocatively
as
deliberate
school
day
starvation.
She
formed
the
school
dinners
ladies
committee,
which
claimed
that
hundreds
of
children's
lives
have
been
sacrificed.
Thousands
of
Irish
boys
and
girls
are
being
condemned
to
lifelong
physical
suffering.
B
So
I
think
you
can
see
here
that
there's
a
not
very
subtle
recalling
of
farming
and
all
those
debates
about
food
being
exported
out
of
the
country
and
also
this
other
meal
issue
of
School
meals
as
well.
One
notable
aspect
of
Guns
reinterpretation
of
Irish
hunger
was
that
she
didn't
blame
these
curlers.
He
crazed
mothers,
but
instead
she
looks
more
broadly
towards
a
social
and
economic
relations
which
she
saw
as
being
imposed
by
Britain
and
Ireland's
Colonial
relationship
and
they're.
B
That's
Ted
as
well.
There
there's
loads
of
other
things
going
on
at
the
time
around
the
1900
period
and
this
changes
in
in
school
education,
which
makes
quickly
classes
compulsory
for
girls,
which
is
fine.
Although
the
government
doesn't
provide
any
money
to
help,
support
them
or
to
buy
the
pots
and
pans
or
many
national
schools
that
were
very
small
and
so
quickly,
classes
have
to
be
done
off-site,
which
wasn't
the
most
practical.
B
It's
also
groups
like
The
Women's,
National,
Health
Association,
who
are
getting
involved
in
fighting
TB
and
and
creating
babies,
clubs
where
they
educate
mothers
on
their
own,
how
to
raise
that
their
children
and
to
feed
them
how
to
feed
them
in
ways
that
are
nutritionally
more
positive.
So
there
are
some
positive
things
going
on
I
think
at
the
time,
but.
B
Embroiled
in
in
the
various
politics
of
the
day,
nonetheless,
I
I
think
it's
fair
to
say
that
problems
of
hunger
persisted
well
into
the
20th
century
and
certainly
the
first
world
war,
didn't
help
matters
in
any
way.
B
In
1918,
an
author
named
James
S
published
a
short
story:
hunger,
the
Dublin
story,
which
I
went
to
the
National
Library
last
summer
to
go
and
look
at
this,
provided
a
woeful
account
of
the
realities
of
hunger
for
many
doubliness
written
from
the
point
of
view
of
a
housewife,
and
we
don't
know
a
name
which
perhaps
underscores
I
think
the
fact
that
s
was
trying
to
get
across
the
point
that
this
was
a
fairly
typical
experience.
B
Over
many
people
when
we
meet
the
protagonists
have
been
married
for
for
four
years
and
given
birth
to
three
children,
the
eldest,
it
is
described
as
a
so
you
once
again
use
the
terminology
of
the
day
or
he
had
a
unspecified
disability,
the
implication
being
that
he
probably
wouldn't
be
going
out
to
certain
to
work
or
to
contribute
to
the
family
economy.
The
husband
was
a
house
painter
who
earned
up
to
35
Shillings
a
week,
although
only
in
summer,
so
again
we're
going
back
to
that
idea
of
seasonal
hunger.
B
I
think
this
was
a
very
well
chosen
occupation
or
to
a
third
of
Dublin's
painters
were
in
fact
unemployed
in
the
winter
months
and
then
a
little
bit
later
in
1927.
There's
a
committee
on
the
relief
of
unemployment
which
does
bring
these
issues
to
life,
so
s
described
the
family
as
living
just
over
the
deathline
of
starvation
and
in
one
notable
passage
which
I
have
copied
and
pasted.
B
Here
he
describes
how
usual
and
common
feeling
hungry
was
so
much
so
that
the
purists
had
accepted
it
just
as
a
way
of
life
and
maybe
even
as
parts
of
Nature,
and
so
s
writes
she.
The
housewife
had
not
known
for
three
years
what
it
was
like
not
to
be
hungry
for
one
day,
but
life
is
largely
custom
and
neither
She
nor
her
husband
nor
the
children
made
much
complaint
about
a
condition
which
was
normal
for
them
all
and
into
which
the
children
had
been
born.
B
The
husband
was
depicted
as
a
robust
man.
He
could
have
eaten
a
lot
if
he'd
got
any
food
available
to
him
and
he
suggesting
to
his
wife
that
they
have
a
wild
blowout
and
have
a
big
massive
feast
and
like
nothing
they'd
experienced
before,
but
the
wife
is
depicted
as
a
sensible
person
in
control
of
her
budgeting,
the
complete
opposite
of
the
alleged
T,
craze,
Victoria
and
housewife,
who
I
discussed
earlier.
B
So
I
think
this
is
a
very
good
engagement
with
the
various
perspectives
on
Hunger
of
the
time
and
the
first
world
war
then
breaks
out,
obviously
in
1914
onwards,
and
this
forms
part
of
the
narrative
within
this
book.
Hunger
and
times
became
tougher
for
the
family.
No
one
wanted
the
house
is
painted
anymore.
Free
prices
kept
Rising,
but
this
family,
meat
and
vegetables
became
unaffordable,
salted
potatoes
and
something
needed
to
be
eliminated
from
the
food
bill.
But
there
wasn't
much
left
to
take
off
at
that
point.
B
Her
husband,
fine
Works
in
Scotland
and
departs
the
youngest
child,
then
dies
from
an
unnamed
hungry
related
disease.
The
wife
goes
begging
in
the
streets,
sometimes
receiving
a
penny
or
two
which
allows
her
to
buy
a
bit
of
bread
and
tea.
So
again
that
diet
is
coming
up
yet
again.
The
second
child
then
dies
of
hunger,
and
only
the
so-called
crippled
child
remains
at
the
story's
end.
B
She
learns
that
her
husband's
still
in
Scotland,
has
been
found
dead
from
hunger
and
exposure,
but
in
case
you
don't
know
usually
for
being
found
on
the
streets
and
not
having
any
shelter
and
the
fate
of
the
mother
and
her
child
is
left,
unsetting,
unsettingly
uncertain,
so
so
I
think
this
is
a
really
effective
novel,
I
think
which
is
amplifies
it
at
this
point
that
hunger,
starvation
and
all
those
matters
we're
still
serious
problems.
B
Long
after
the
famine
as
the
war
progressed,
the
workers
National
Committee,
worked
out
that
the
cost
of
living
good
within
65
between
July
1914
and
July
1916
so
covering
the
first
two
years
of
the
war,
and
there
was
calls
to
end
the
exportation
of
Irish
food
to
Britain
and
shin
Fame
was
particularly
active
in
that
regard.
B
But,
let's
say
for
policies
still
held
a
lot
of
influence
against
the
backdropper,
also
of
the
east
of
icing,
obviously,
but
also
the
Wilshire
evolution
in
1917
Lionel,
Smith
garden
and
Cruz
O'brien
write
this
book
starvation
in
Dublin,
which
I've
also
found
in
the
National
Library
of
Ireland,
and
they
want
the
you
know
that
the
government
and
and
those
types
only
usually
become
interested
in
hungry
people
if
they
threaten
to
become
Troublesome,
to
use
their
term
or
threaten
a
revolution.
B
I
think
maybe
a
more
appropriate
phrasing,
and
so
they
recall
the
people
they
found
since
1789
the
French
Revolution
and
they
blame,
or
they
link
the
French
revolutions
with
shots
to
Ukraine
and
also
the
people
of
Russia.
So
this
is
real
sense.
I
think
that
you
know
some
people
are
claiming
that
Revolution
Is
On
The
Way,
largely
because
of
all
these
issues.
B
They
also
write
a
lot
about
well,
they
saw
around
them
and
they
suggested
that
the
Working
Class
People
at
Dublin
never
dreamed
of
eating
eggs
but
or
anything
but
the
most
Agri
Farms
of
fish
for
the
last
three
years
covering
the
war,
and
they
talk
about
tea
and
bread.
Again,
they
say
you
know
that
it's
a
necessity
for
for
many
people,
but
it
almost
become
a
luxury
during
the
first
World
War.
B
B
Were
really
thinking
about
plotting
revolutions
and
things
like
that,
I
suspect
on
a
day-to-day
level,
and
things
like
budgeting
and
and
those
kind
of
matters
were
of
much
more
urgency,
but
you
can
see
once
again
how
food
has
been
used
in
in
particular
ways
politically
at
the
time,
so
that's
kind
of
all
the
pre-independence
section
and
just
checking
the
time.
I
think
I've
been
talking
about
half
an
hour
so
far,
so
I
like
to
wrap
up
in
10
15
minutes.
B
Obviously,
after
independency
it
became
harder
to
blame
the
British
entirely
for
everything.
Obviously,
there
was
still
a
lot
of
economic,
independent
interdependence
between
the
two
islands,
but
I
think
the
Irish
stays
North
and
safe
know
how
to
assume
responsibility
for
managing
their
own
conditions
of
hunger
and,
of
course,
sadly,
the
the
utopian
dreams
of
a
self-sufficient
Island
and
a
well-fed
island
didn't
quite
come
to
fruition.
B
Of
course,
of
course,
after
the
war
you
and
after
Independence
you've
got
a
the
broader
context
of
economic
Decline
and
the
Great
Depression
and
those
kind
of
things
which
only
worsens
problems
of
poverty
in
in
Ireland,
North
and
South.
So
so
this
is
is
an
interesting
person.
This
is
the
earl
of
Don
Raven
and
he
publishes
pamphlet
in
1925
and
it's
called
cheap
food
for
the
people
at
Large,
and
he
does
deserve
still
that
his
team
might
bread.
Bread.
Diet
is
kind
of
plague
in
the
nation
as
a
whole.
B
It's
he
says
we
have
a
badly
nourished
Nation,
we
Irish
are
bad
cooks.
France
is
preeminence
in
that
art.
The
English
are
very
bad,
but
the
Irish
or
the
worst
of
all-
and
he
goes
on
again
about
this
tea
and
white
bread,
diet
and
he
says
without
additions.
It's
not
bodybuilding
or
sustaining
it's
bad
for
children
and
not
much
good
to
adults,
but
he
did
observe
still
that
the
price
of
meat
was
high.
The
Irish
people
didn't
seem
to
like
eating
cheese.
For
some
reason
he
talks
a
lot
about
this.
B
I
I
should
know
a
lot
of
this.
I
keep
alluding
to
mental
health.
Here
in
the
1890s,
there
was
a
big
investigation
into
why
Asylum
admissions
were
increasing
across
Ireland
at
a
time
when
the
population
was
declining
due
to
immigration
and
each
of
the
Asylum
owners
across
the
island
interviewed,
and
they
all
blamed
that
the
tea
and
white
bread
diet
for
causing
malnutrition,
which
in
turn,
impacts
on
people's
mental
health
and
mental
well-being
as
well.
B
So
there
is
also
you
know,
a
kind
of
narrative
of
decline
in
mental
health
which
forms
part
of
this.
But
it's
in
this
context
that
the
deaf
Daniel
Sullivan
occurs,
which
I
commence
is
people
with.
B
B
The
pool
last
system
is
obviously
being
phased
out
throughout
the
20s
and
30s
as
well,
but
but
there's
also
recognition
that
not
everyone
or
not,
everyone
involved
in
the
people,
love
and
the
relief
systems
and
the
welfare
systems
that
we
placed
here
were
necessarily
sympathetic
to
conditions
of
hunger
and
the
poor.
So
just
going
back
was
a
little
bit.
B
This
is
Lionel
Smith
garden
and
Francis
Cruz
or
Brian
again,
and
they
come,
and
they
were
some
who
feel
apparently
that
his
status
starvation
has
not
been
reached
until
they
find
children
dying
or
dead
in
the
streets,
and
so
these
people,
no
appeal
shots
of
feeling
want
themselves
or
hunger
will
succeed,
and
he
says
for
others,
a
glance
at
the
color
and
general
aspects
of
the
children
of
Dublin.
The
present
will
be
enough.
B
I
bring
this
up
because
in
the
1920s,
if
someone
was
saying
start
to
death
or
if
starvation
was
rumored
to
be
occurring
in
a
particular
town
or
city,
it
did
cause
a
lot
of
debates
and
certainly
the
authorities,
the
the
local
councils
or
Traders
were
often
quite
Keen
to
refute
any
idea
that
starvation
was
occurring,
that
the
release
systems
in
place
were
inadequate
in
terms
of
providing
relief.
So
so
one
example,
let's
say
in
1928
rumors
spread
across
the
island.
B
B
If
you
bothered
to
go
and
walk
down
the
back
streets
of
the
town,
instead
of
just
going
up
and
down
the
cities
in
the
Town
Center,
you
will
notice
lots
of
loss
of
starvation
in
those
areas,
but
other
people
are
quite
satisfied
that
the
Border
Guardians
have
been
Distributing
enough
relief,
even
outdoor
relief,
and
that
was
being
complemented
by
charitable
relief
from
the
various
churches.
Well,.
B
C
B
Received
they
claimed
that
portadown
had
been
scandalized
unnecessarily.
You
know
that
it
could
affect
the
trade,
and
things
like
that
there
is
also
asserts
an
extensive
victim
blaming
still
persisting
in
this
time.
In
1931.
In
athlete,
a
man
named
Godfrey
seemed
to
start
died
from
starvation.
Now,
if
you
haven't
had
much
food
for
a
long
time,
you
do
need
a
bit
of
you
can't
just
go
and
have
a
big
Feast,
as
you
probably
become
very
sick,
but
a
lot
of
hunger
Strikers
realize
this
in
Germany.
B
You
know
the
Builder
to
Independence
that
you
need
to
recommence
digestion,
a
very
steady
Pace,
as
you
can
end
up,
making
yourself
very
ill,
but
anyway,
Godfrey
did
go
off
and
have
a
big
Feast.
So
I
guess
we're
going
back
to
the
hunger
story
where
the
wife
was
with
the
the
husband
might
go
and
buy
himself
a
big
meal,
and
something
like
that.
B
But
that's
what
Godfrey
did
he
bought
himself
a
big
meal
just
before
Christmas
and
died
shortly
afterwards
in
terrible
agony,
so
Godfrey's
play
was
discussed
across
Ireland
and
through
negative
attention
to
what
was
going
on
in
nathi
and
the
welfare
systems.
In
place
there
were
cars
made
for
an
inquiry.
People
the
Home,
Health
Society
defensively,
insisted
that
coffee
was
a
weak
person.
He
had
a
stomach
ulcer.
He
should
know
better
than
to
have
a
large
Christmas
meal.
B
B
Narratives
and
contestation
to
that,
this
lows,
going
on
I
mean
Belfast,
of
course,
there's
loads
of
poverty
and
and
food
related
issues
in
the
1920s
and
30s.
We
have
one
person
here
talking
about
the
Shankle
area.
One
of
the
worst
features
is
that
the
men
have
fallen
into
sickness
through
General
weakness
following
starvation,
the
consequences
that
they
are
unable
to
continue
their
search
for
work
and
the
family
is
worse
off
than
ever.
B
We
have
crows
at
the
mission
every
day
for
food,
food
and
clothes,
and
it's
pitiful
to
see
them
with
the
pale
starved
faces.
The
dispirited
Earth
hundreds
of
people
in
Shanco
were
not
living,
they
just
managed
to
exist
and,
of
course,
19.
The
early
1930s
is
quite
famous,
so
I
guess
for
kind
of
protestant
and
Catholic
communities
coming
together.
B
You
know
and
joining
together
on
protest
marches
against
the
levels
of
unemployment
and
hardship
with
which
many
people
and
we're
facing
just
just
as
a
kind
of
means
of
bringing
everything
together
and
closing
I
just
want
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
elderly
people.
I
think
historians
do
tend
to
often
write
about
children
and
Starving
Children,
so
the
Dublin
lockout
is
is
one
example
where
we're
the
attention
was
really
drawn
to
us.
Images
of
children
being
underfed
because
of.
C
B
The
trade
unionism
and
everything
at
the
time
early
in
issues
with
employers
and
yeah,
which
I
think
is
great,
I,
mean
I.
Think
the
history,
childhood
and
Ireland
is
a
really
important
field.
But
I
do
think
that
there's
other
groups
which
are
a
bit
lost
in
some
of
the
discussion
of
poverty
and
Welfare
elderly
people
and
certainly
featured
particularly
heavily
in
in
the
research
which
I've
been
doing
at
the
time.
Pensions
were
introduced
in
Ireland
in
1909,
but
they
they
cost
a
lot
of
money
and
higher
than
anticipated
costs.
B
So
since
then,
I
guess
government's
been
quite
eager
to
cut
back
on
pensions
and,
of
course,
throughout
the
20th
century,
people
began
to
live
longer
as
a
century.
Progress
which
added
to
the
pension
Bill,
ideally
and,
of
course,
the
workout
system.
For
all
this,
many
folds
had
once
been
a
place
of
Refuge
for
many
elderly
people
as
well,
and
and
obviously
there
was
calls
to
end
the
Waco
system
after
after
Independence
and
partition.
B
But
but
of
course,
the
danger
there.
It
does
cut
off
a
particular
form
of
welfare
for
these
kind
of
vulnerable,
older
people
in
the
in
the
south.
In
the
1920s
is
quite
severe
cups
made
suspensions
as
well,
which
caused
a
lot
of
controversy
at
the
time,
so
I'm
kind
of
looking
through
examples
of
some
of
the
situations
which,
in
a
worst
case
scenario,
these
groups
or
individuals
found
themselves
in
in
January
1925.
B
We
were
leaving
officer
in
county
clerk,
entered
a
house
to
find
an
elderly
woman
lying
in
the
corner
of
a
filthy,
feminist
room.
She
was
more
or
less
naked.
Apart
from
a
dirty
rag
covering
some
parts
of
her
body,
a
husband
was
in
a
similar
condition,
weak
and
hungry,
and
there
was
two
daughters
aged
36
and
40,
so
so
I
guess
it
was
slightly
older
age.
Journalists
did.
A
B
To
describe
these
families
as
eccentric
or
or
those
kind
of
things,
so
they
did
tend
to
cast
his
versions
on
their
mental
well-being,
but
they
were
also
quite
sympathetic
to
know
that
many
people
were
falling
into
hard
times.
This
family
had
once
owned,
50
acres
of
land
and
still
did
so.
Presumably
that
meant
they
weren't
eligible
for
much
relief,
but
all
the
cattle
had
died
in
recent
years,
with
the
exception
of
one
aged
cow.
B
B
Effort
to
move
the
family
to
the
workhouse,
which
was
Southern
operation
in
1925,
but
the
lady
died
before
that
was
possible,
and
so
that
aversion
you
know
to
enter
in
the
workhouse,
no
matter
how
bad
your
housing
conditions
are,
is
still
quite
prevalent
in
the
1920s.
There's
other
reports
as
well,
and
it's
another
couple
found
around
the
same
time,
living
in
filth
and
eating
from
a
cow's
carcass
line
in
the
kitchen.
B
So
there's
I
mean
I
could
go
on
with
many
examples
of
these.
But
these
were
fairly
atypical
of.
A
B
This
was
a
period
just
before
medicine
became
quite
Curative
and
there
was
a
fear
and
that,
if
you
go
to
the
hospital
you,
you
may
not
necessarily
come
out
alive,
partly
because
of
hiking
centers
and
things
like
that,
but
also
a
lot
of
the
hospitals
were
attached
to
to
the
workhouses,
and
so
there
was
a
real
stigma
and
back
then
about
entering
through
the
workhouse.
So
there's
one
example
in
1924,
25
fever
breaks
out
to
go
away.
B
Many
people
refused
to
leave
their
houses
to
attend
the
hospital
to
get
some
adequate
treatments,
so
homeless
is
a
dispatched
instead
and
again,
these
go
and
Report
these
families
living
on
black
tea
and
dry
white
bread.
Obviously,
if
your
nutrition
isn't
vehicle
that
renders
you
even
more
susceptible
to
diseases
and
and
from
suffering
more
severely
from
infections,
in
this
instance,
one
wife
refused
to
attend
hospital
and
she
died
at
home
and
left
behind
her
husband
and
children,
who
only
consented
to
go
into
hospital
after
considerable
persuasion.
B
And
so
just
just
as
a
means
of
concluding.
Then
oh
well.
Hopefully
you
can
see
where
I'm
trying
to
go
with
this
and
to
think
about
Hunger
as
a
more
common
experience
in
Ireland
and
one
that
persisted
long
after
the
family
and
I'm,
not
suggesting
it
was
as
bad
in
any
way
is
what
happened
during
the
famine
and
but
I.
Think
it's
important
to
to
kind
of
bring
this
history
to
life
a
little
bit
and
partly
as
well,
because
we
are
now
entering
another
period
of
food
poverty
and
entirely
different
context,
of
course.
B
But
I
do
think
you
know
these
narratives
of
mother
blaming
in
particular
blaming
families,
they're,
not
budgeting,
and
all
that
kind
of
stuff.
It's
still
quite
prominent,
and
you
know
we
do
need
to
also
consider
the
social,
economic,
political
and
cultural
cultural
environments
surrounding
hungry
people.
As
well,
you
know
we
do
need
to
think
about
cookery
and
those
kind
of
things,
as
well
and
and
kind
of
sensible
ways
to
think
about
these
situations,
and
so
I
think
I'll
end
them.
I.
A
Thank
you
very
much
Ian.
Hopefully
some
people
put
some
questions
into
the
chat
box.
Can
I
just
ask.
You
mentioned
the
admissions
to
asylums,
increasing
at
one
point
in
your
talk:
do
you
know
or
do
maybe
Jared
you
could
add
to
this
when
were
Asylum
hospitals
built
in
Ireland
just
for
our
own
general
knowledge?
Here?
What.
B
B
B
Okay
yeah,
so
it
was
quite
early
compared
to
most
of
the
Consciousness.
Some
people
have
interpreted
this
in
terms
of
social
control
and
things
like
that,
although
some
others
have
argued
that
it
was
signs
of
a
good
attempt
at
a
welfare
system,
but
it
was
all
the
way
back
in
in
1815,
as
well
as
the
state
supported
Asylum.
So
it
was
also
lots
of
private
asylums,
and
things
like
that.
Some
of
these
will
just
be
maybe
someone
who
owned
a
big
house
which
he
or
she
wanted
to
do
something
with.
B
So
there
was
different
types
of
asylums,
and
but
it's
only
really
I
think
from
around
the
1840s
1850s
and
that
the
eye
of
the
Asylum
populations
or
the
numbers
of
patients
in
them
big
begins
to
really
really
increase
so
I.
Think
by
then
by
event.
1900.
The
Asylum
is
used
partly
as
a
form
of
welfare,
as
well
as
a
form
of
mental
health
care.
C
And,
of
course,
our
miles,
so
it
was
one
of
the
first
asylums
the
inside
there.
A
lot
was
happening
in
the
medical
field
from
about
1812
on
which
of
the
development
of
dispensaries,
which
are
the
modern
GP
system
from
around
about
1812
right
through
so
by
the
early
1820s
you've.
C
I
said
like
a
bollock
and
a
cart,
and
he
was
seen
as
being
you
know,
obviously,
during
their
time
but
sort
of
the
air
miles
Salem,
the
buildings
are
still
there
to
this
day.
It
was
one
of
the
first.
A
Just
to
mention
the
one
in
Arma
is
actually
called
St
Luke's
I'm,
not
sure
about
the
one
in
modern
town,
which
was
called
Saint
Davon.
It's.
It
must
been
built
and
maybe
slightly
later
stage,
but
a
lot
of
the
asylums
of
the
period
are
very
similar
in
design
and
layout.
Aren't
they
is
there
a
possibility
that
the
increase
in
numbers
of
admissions
could
have
been
partly
true
to
their
post-traumatic
trauma
of
the
famine
period?
B
My
personal
view
on
this,
which
is
open
for
debates
I,
just
don't
think,
there's
enough
evidence
which
I've
been
able
to
find
about
charm
or
not
because
it
didn't
happen,
but
I
I
just
compared
to
maybe
the
troubles
we
have
very
clear
evidence
I
think
it's
just
hard
to
find
that
evidence
also
write
about
it
in
a
sustaining
way
as
a
historian.
So.
A
B
I
think
just
just
to
answer
that
sorry
I
mean
there
is
a
lot
of
literature
on
Irish
mental
health
that
is
written
after
the
famine,
but
they
don't
tend
to
refer
back
to
the
famine,
and
that
doesn't
necessarily
mean
that
the
problem
wasn't
caused
by
the
farming,
but
we'll
just
the
doctors
at
the
time.
Weren't.
Thinking
about
that,
for
whatever
reason
and
Trauma
is
quite
a
modern
term
really
developing
20th
century.
So
I
guess
it's
the
danger
of
retrospectively
assessing
things
which
personally
I
would
avoid.
But
yeah.
A
C
C
Journals
of
the
time
during
Dublin
medical
journal
and
it's
interesting
to
see
how
doctors
are
actually
having
articles
published
on
how
they're
treated
patients
for
various
both
physical
and
mental
ailments
and
asking
their
colleagues
have
you
tried
something
similar?
Have
you
seen
how
this
works
and
you
know
so?
It
certainly
reinforces
the
fact
that
a
lot
of
it
was
just
unknown.
C
What
the
causes
were
in
terms
of
men
with
Roman
or
probably
wouldn't
be
diagnosed
or
thought
about,
and
the
doctors
were
just
working
out
feeling
their
way
through
experimentation
chance
at
times
finding
jurors
for
things
you
know.
So
if
you
actually
read
the
medical
journals,
Dublin,
Journal,
Medical
Science,
for
example,
I'm
covering
the
whole
of
the
country,
you
do
find
doctors
right
now,
their
colleagues,
you
know
how
to
go
about
combat
and
various
illnesses.
A
B
I
would
say,
I
mean
there's
many
different
causes,
I
guess
of
declining
hope.
I
I
would
say
that
the
the
change
in
the
change
in
diet
that
occurred
as
the
potato
day
it
was
kind
of
abandoned.
As
such,
it
did
seem
to
impact
negatively
on
people's
health
and
I've
seen
everyone
survived
on
the
team,
my
birthday,
but
there
were
certainly
other
problems
as
well,
like
adulteration
of
milk
and
bread
as
well.
B
B
But
the
downside,
of
course,
is
that
it's
not
as
nutritionally
healthy
as
plain
bread
and
a
lot
of
contemp
reports
also
talk
about
the
decline
in
popularity
of
oatmeal,
which
seems
to
increase
in
popularity
in
the
1850s
and
and
then
declined
so
I
wouldn't
say,
Co
any
reason
in
some
ways:
healthy,
moved
in
moving
into
the
20th
century
like
things
like
maternal
mortality
into
TB
decline,
internationally
they'll
Ling
you
on
a
bit
longer
in
Ireland,
but
but
I
will
I
would
argue
that
say:
Nutritional
Health.
A
And
so,
and
certainly
so,
you
can
put
a
certain
amount
of
two
there.
Just
changes
in
food
consumption
and
forms
of
food
and
of
course
people
then
didn't
do,
did
not
know
of
how
some
of
the
foods
were
consuming
were
not
as
nutritious.
So
you
know
it
doesn't
it's
general
knowledge
and
information
and
later
research
we
understand,
maybe
some
of
the
factors,
but
then
that
wouldn't
existed.
No,
thank
you
Ian.
Thank
you
very
much
can
I
just
ask
Jared.
Do
you
have
any
questions
before
we.
C
Go
I
mean
just
it's
interesting
that
poverty
in
the
1920s,
but
my
mother
was
born
in
America
and
she
remembers
seeing
as
a
child.
Some
families
live
in
an
incredible
poverty
and
one
family
they're
closer
made
out
of
essay
and
sex,
and
she
always
talked
about
that.
You
know
so
I
mean
there
was
a
post,
-independence
post,
partitions,
incredible
poverty
on
some
parts.
A
And
that
would
apply
to
other
parts
of
the
country.
I
can
see
myself
hearing
my
mother
talk
about
the
poverty
that
existed
within
Arts
of
Countryman
and
where
she
grew
up.
Similar
stories
would
definitely
be
told
horrendous
poverty.
A
question
here
was
just:
can
you
talk
about
the
extent
to
which
seaweed
became
a
food
Staple
in
the
famine
and
nutritional
impact,
because
I
would
apply
to
communities
along
the
along
the
coast?
Can
you
add
to
that
at
all
Ian.
B
I
I
am
often
asked
about
seaweed
and
I
know
nothing
about
it.
I'm
afraid
they
just
didn't
come
up
here
in
the
sources.
I
was
looking
at
him
in
particular,
and
to.
A
Be
honest
and
the
thing
is
too,
we
talked
about
this
another
and
I
think
maybe
on
our
first
evening
week,
one
where,
where
places
along
the
communities
on
the
coast
had
horrendous
death
rates
associated
with
the
famine.
So
though
there
may
have
been
other
food
sources
available,
people
may
actually
not
have
been
aware
or
there's
a
variety
of
factors
there
as
well
Jared.
Do
you
want
to
comment
on
that.
C
Yeah
I
was
just
I
was
hoping
doll,
famine,
Village
in
Donegal
d-o-a-g-h,
just
in
July
Orchestra,
and
they
call
it
a
family
Village,
but
it's
a
they're
basically
restored
a
village
that
goes
way
back,
but
it's
not
specifically
related
to
the
famine,
but
the
fact
I
was
living
there,
who
maybe
in
the
60s.
Now
you
lived
there
as
a
child,
and
it
was
just
fascinating
to
see
how
they
used
every
aspect
of
the
beach
and
life
there,
the
seaweed
to
cover
various
needs
within
Society,
for
example.
C
It
was
one
type
of
seaweed
that
they
used
for
as
a
dummy
for
succulent
children
and
the
same
it
was
used
for
Diane
clothes.
It
was
used
for
food
as
well,
but
there
are
so
many
aspects.
Every
everything
was
utilized
and
in
terms
of
he
mentioned,
which
I
thought
was
very
important
that
they
used
because
they
they
had
to
use
long
poles
for
for
fishing.
C
They
use
potato
as
the
bait
for
the
fish.
But
if
the
potato
was
black
at
all,
then
the
fish
wouldn't
come
to
it
and,
of
course,
in
46
47.
That's
exactly
what
happened
so
when
people
say
why
didn't
they
eat
fish,
but
it's
not
as
simple
as
that.
You
know.
Sean
was
a
very,
very
enlightened
to
go
there
and
you
just
find
that
that
question
they're
asked
about
seaweed
seaweed
accomplished
a
number
of
tasks
for
families
living
on
the
show
you.
B
I
know
in
Britain
in
the
industrial
revolution.
Obviously,
everyone
moved
to
the
towns
and
cities,
and
this
system
develops
I
guess
where
the
agricultural
workers
still
made
all
the
food
and
managed
to
ship
that
into
the
towns
and
cities.
So
a
kind
of
consumer
culture
emerged,
I,
guess
so,
obviously
Ireland
industrialized
a
bit
later
and
not
as
extensively
I,
definitely
Belfast
in
Dublin
in
particular.
Obviously,
there's
different
things
going
on
there
and
different.
So.
B
Perception
as
well
that
you
were
much
less
likely
to
be
healthy,
if
you,
if
you
live
in
a
town
or
that
the
food
and
milk
you
buy
and
you
know,
might
be
more
likely
to
be
adulterated,
you
you're
further
away
from
your
food
source
and
those
kind
of
things
so
I
think
yes
to
a
certain
extent,
it
was.
But
we
do
need
to
bear
in
mind
that
the
compared
to
England
the
industrialization
was
on
a
lesser
scale.
I
guess
in
Ireland.
C
A
Commentarian
few
explorations
of
Post
Farm
and
Food
equal
that
what
ends
outlined
especially
the
extent
to
which
recurrent
post
Farming
Supply
Supply
crisis
so
I'm
trying
to
understand
this
post
famine,
Supply
crisis
food
persisted
until
1925,
does
Ian
think
that
that
crisis
tested
the
sorry
I'm
trying
to
miss
tested
the
emerging
Irish
free
State's
capacity
to
justify
its
existence.
Does
that
make
sorry?
Does
that.
B
Make
sense,
I
think
so
I
mean
obviously
there's
a
broader
context
going
on
yes
in
welfare,
which
which
my
food
stuff
I
guess
sits
within,
but
but
yeah
I
mean
absolutely
because
you
do
get
to
a
stage
where
it's
increasingly
hard.
It
is
to
blame
the
British
government
for
everything
in
the
way
that
Morgan
did.
B
You
know
there
comes
a
point
after
Independence,
so
you
could
think.
Well,
you
know
some
of
these
problems
have
actually
maybe
internal
or
maybe
a
bit
more
complex
and
that
the
kind
of
Republican
narrative
it
suggested
it
was
so
yeah
and
I
think
as
well.
When
devil
lever
comes
along
a
bit
later
on,
and
you
know
with
images
of
this
social,
sufficient
Island,
which
is
making
and
growing
food
for
the
Irish
and
we're
all
going
to
be
really
healthy
yeah.
That
didn't
really
happen.
B
So
so,
like
many
things
in
the
20s
and
30s,
you
know
it
does
test
the
new
State's
capacity,
as
you
say,
to
justify
its
existence
and
and
in
different
ways
in
the
north,
of
course,
we're
partition
has
occurred
and
this
kind
of
other
parts
a
violent.
C
The
1930s
Dr
Jim
deeney,
he
was
based
on
Lurgan
and
he
made
a
comparison
between
the
linen
workers
and
Lurgan
on
those
Belgium
and
I
was
inspired
by.
C
He
was
sitting
at
Mass
one
day
in
St,
Peter's,
Church,
North,
Street,
Lurgan
and
I
noticed
each
other
in
front
of
him,
and
he
said
he
had
just
witnessed
real
poverty,
stroke,
starvation
and
he
went
to
Belgium
and
he
said
he
couldn't
couldn't
believe
the
comparison
they
worked
in
the
same
Industries,
but
the
Belgian
workers
enjoyed
a
much
more
varied,
richer
diet
and
much
more
healthy
and
lived
in
far
better
houses
and
1930s.
The
latter
part
of
the
1930s
in
Irma.
C
Having
studied
the
ga
other
that
you
know
wanted,
it
was
decimated
by
immigration
and
they
couldn't
feed
the
teams
and
Poppy
Fern
of
who
was
representing
bestbrook,
who
won
the
County
junior
Championship
through
to
the
County
Board
and
said:
listen
forget
about
giving
us
the
cup
just
give
us
the
value
of
the
cup
and
money,
and
they
did
that.
No,
so
that
so
the
team
was
super
in
the
area
was
super
that
they
didn't
want
the
company.