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From YouTube: Public Art & Cultural Commission
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A
A
A
You
will
see
on
the
top
of
our
agenda
an
overview
of
the
responsibilities
of
the
public
art
culture.
Commission.
You
can
ask
access
that
on
the
public,
art
and
cultural
commission's
web
page
or
on
the
public
input
page.
A
All
committee
members
and
staff
are
participating
virtually
today
we
are
streaming
live
on
our
virtual
engagement
hub,
which
is
accessible
through
the
virtual
engagement
hub
link
on
the
front
page
of
the
city's
website
and
on
the
city's
youtube
page
to
participate
by
phone.
You
can
dial
855
925
2801
meeting
code
9182.
A
A
I
will
now
go
through
and
introduce
all
the
committee
members
who
are
participating
virtually
please
make
sure
to
mute
your
microphone
if
you're,
not
speaking
when
you
have
a
question
or
would
like
to
speak
on,
mute
your
microphone.
Please
remember
to
mute
again
after
you
are
done.
Speaking
committee
members,
as
I
call
your
name
please
say
a
quick
hello,
shirley
whitesides.
A
Hello:
everyone,
allie,
mcgee,
hello,
andrew
fletcher,
is
running
late,
he'll
be
joining
us
shortly.
Pete
perez
hello,
joanna
hagerty
joanna
is
participating
by
phone
and
is
having
trouble
unmuting,
but
she's
here,
reggie
tidwell.
B
E
A
Hi
guys
hey
reggie,
jasmine
washington,
hello,
hey
and
marsha
almodovar
hi,
wonderful
thanks
everybody!
I
just
wanted
to
start
by
giving
a
warm
welcome
to
carly
stevenson,
the
city's
new
urban
design
and
place
strategy.
Specialist
we've
wanted
you
for
so
long
and
welcome.
Welcome
welcome.
I
also
want
to
thank
city
staff,
especially
steph,
monsondahl
and
carly,
for
all
your
work,
putting
together
today's
retreat,
I'm
really
looking
forward
to
it.
So
without
further
ado,
I'm
going
to
hand
things
over
to
steph.
C
Thank
you
chair.
We
appreciate
that
well,
welcome
everybody.
I'm
gonna
go
through
a
few
things
in
the
next
five
minutes,
pretty
quickly
and
hope
that
if
we
have
time
at
the
end
or
if
we
need
to
follow
up
at
our
next
meeting,
that
we
can
do
it,
then
so
the
first
thing
is
it's
annual
report
time
technically
they're
due
today,
and
we
have
a
drafting
report
that
the
chair
and
I
have
worked
on
linked
in
your
agenda,
so
go
to
that
annual
report.
C
If
you
can
and
take
a
look
at
what
we
put
down
for
accomplishments
because
all
of
you
have
something
in
there
that
we
put
down
for
you
and
we
want
to
make
sure
that
everything
is
correct.
That
information
is
correct,
then
take
a
look
at
the
entire
report.
If
you
want
and
make
sure
that
you
feel
confident
that
all
of
that
information
doesn't
exclude
something
else
that
we
should
have
put
in.
But
again
just
take
a
look
at
that.
C
I
wanted
to
talk
really
quickly
about
membership
terms
and
actually
annual
elections,
so
we're
not
going
to
do
annual
elections
today
either
we're
not
even
going
to
spend
that
much
time
on
the
background
and
purpose
of
the
commission.
Anything
like
that.
C
We're
going
to
focus
really
hard
on
pax,
the
future
of
pac
square
past
president
and
future
of
pac
square,
but
as
far
as
membership
terms
goes,
I
want
you
to
be
aware
that
both
your
chair
and
your
vice
chair
have
terms
expiring
next
year,
so
in
june
of
next
year,
so
there's
more
than
a
year
of
that
to
go.
C
But
what
it
means
is
that
you
should
be
thinking
about
next
june,
who
will
want
to
be,
let's
just
say,
understudying,
andrew
and
katie
during
the
rest
of
this
time,
to
provide
some
leadership.
So
we
really
appreciate
all
of
your
volunteer
service
and
keep
thinking
about
that.
Those
folks
are
coming
off
the
rest
of
you
all.
You
may
have
terms
that
are
actually
coming
up
and
that
will
be
expiring
at
that
time.
C
So
I
know
I
think,
marsha
p,
you
all
do,
but
it's
because
you
came
on
other
people's
unexpired
terms
and
you're
absolutely
qualified
and
eligible
to
be
reappointed
by
city
council
at
that
time,
but
andrew
and
katie
you
are
not
that's
an
fyi,
so
annual
elections.
We
will
do
at
the
next
meeting.
We'll
have
that
conversation.
C
The
last
thing
for
administrative
items
I
wanted
to
talk
about
is
there's
a
link
about
your
guiding
ordinances
in
the
agenda,
and,
what's
really
important,
is
that
you
look
at
that
offline
there's
about
there's
three
specific
documents
that
are
worth
going
through
and
it
will
take
you
it
will
take
you
an
hour
to
go
through
all
these
documents.
I
think
so,
if
you
can
schedule
yourself
an
hour
on
that,
we
appreciate
it,
but
there
are
five
bullet
points
that
are
at
the
top
of
your
agenda.
C
That
really
explain
your
purpose
and
your
charge
with
city
council
and,
as
we
go
through
some
conversations
today
about
how
you
will
be
involved
and
what
your
role
will
be
when
it
comes
to
the
pac
square
improvements
projects
just
really
take
a
look
at
those
five
bullets
every
once
in
a
while
and
say:
how
do
I
do
this,
but
there?
C
How
do
I
do
this
in
this
project?
So
appreciate
that
very
much
now,
as
far
as
reviewing
and
updating
on
your
work
plan
areas,
I'm
excited
that
carly
stevenson
is
on
as
well.
We
are
all
really
happy,
and
today
we're
joined
by
the
way
by
carly
stevenson,
we're
also
joined
by
dana
frankel,
our
downtown
planning
manager
and
our
urban
designer
2,
which
is
david
hazard
who's
been
with
us
for
several
years.
So
that's
great
that
we're
all
here
supporting
you.
C
C
Both
the
murals
underneath
the
I-240
captain
bowen
bridge
and
the
murals
under
the
west
asheville
river
lake
bridge,
and
they
already
have
themes-
and
we
already
do-
have
a
great
subcommittee-
that's
formed
with
members
of
the
public,
supporting
it
so
we'll
be
able
to
kick
start
that
pretty
fast
and
then
a
note
on
the
urban
trail
committee
that
this
year
there's
a
couple
things
that
people
will
be
focusing
on.
C
But
right
now
the
biggest
thing
that's
going
on
is
the
reinstallation
of
the
art,
deco
masterpiece,
marker
other
wise
known
as
the
s
w
marker
and
at
that
station
we've
spent,
which
has
been
missing
for
at
least
five
or
six
years.
C
We
are
now
working
with
our
one
of
our
capital
projects,
planners
and
managers,
to
get
some
feedback
from
the
subcommittees
about
the
actual
design
of
the
setting
for
that
marker
because,
as
you
know,
it
used
to
be
on
a
wall.
So
now
it
has
to
go
into
some
kind
of
framework.
We
know
where
it's
going
to
go
and
we're
looking
at
some
additional
place,
making
devices
as
well
so.
C
Fantastic
for
that
you
guys,
and
then
we're
also
going
to
be
looking
at
spending
up
to
twenty
thousand
dollars
on
cleaning,
bronze,
plaques
and
bronze
pieces
in
the
urban
trail.
Most
of
them
haven't
been
cleaned
in
quite
a
while
and
then
what's
not
on
your
agenda,
but
I
need
to
mention.
Is
that
there's
also
an
interest
by
the
group
to
reconsider
some
of
the
the
interpretation
around
the
urban
trail
itself?
So
a
lot
of
the
markers
that
deal
with
indigenous
peoples,
first
peoples
and
nations
and
the
african-american
community.
C
They
were
written,
maybe
in
the
80s
and
90s
they
were
written.
They
were
written
in
conjunction
with
a
diverse
group
of
people
that
did
include
some
members
of
the
african
american
community,
but
it
is
time
for
a
refresh
and
an
update,
and
especially
on
our
print
and
online
materials.
So
that's
going
to
be
a
pretty
big
heavy
lift
for
folks
moving
forward
and
will
take
a
lot
of
focus.
C
So
you
have
a
lot
on
your
plate
this
year
and
I
hope
I
think
carly
stevenson
is
getting
ready
now
to
talk
to
you
about
the
a
temporary
art
program
and
if
she
pulls
up
her
presentation,
then
I'm
going
to
actually
start
it
off
to
kind
of
tee
you
up
with
what
we're
actually
doing
for
the
pack
square
improvement
project
and
what
that
role
is
so
carly.
You
ready
to
pull
that
up.
G
C
C
So
for
you
guys
to
to
know
that
we
right
now,
you
probably
know
because
you've
received
emails
and
seen-
maybe
in
the
media
or
what
have
you
that
we
have
a
request
for
proposals
on
the
street
right
now
to
hire
a
project
manager
for
the
pack
square,
plaza
improvements,
project
and
basically
the
the
gist
of
that
as
we
want
to
is
right
here,
develop
a
compelling
vision
document
for
the
future
of
pack
square.
Whitney
was
going
to
have
some
illustrations
as
well.
C
We
have
a
narrative
and
we
have
illustrations
that
will
go
along
with
that
and
if
you
were
familiar
with
the
project
that
we
did
heywood
and
paige
in
the
vision,
both
the
vision
process
several
years
ago
and
then
two
years
ago,
when
we
completed
the
actual
master
concept
plan
document,
it's
somewhere
in
between
those
two
processes.
So
it's
probably
bigger
than
what
we
did
originally
with
project
for
public
spaces
in
the
actual
design
center
around
heywood
and
page.
The
visit
visioning
document.
C
But
it
is
not
as
extensive
as
the
work
we
did
with
nelson
bird
wool,
so
create
more
of
a
master
plan
for
the
area
that
detailed
exactly
what
we
were
going
to
do
and
how
much
it
was
going
to
cost
and
the
we.
We
went
down
to
the
like
how
many
tons
of
gravel
that
we
were
going
to
need,
and
all
of
that
we're
not
doing
that.
C
The
biggest
thing
we're
doing
is
communications
and
engagement
with
the
public
and
generally
we're
looking
for
a
project
manager
that
can
provide
something
new
and
of
use
to
the
public
and
really
focus
on
the
events
and
initiatives
that
they
already
have
and
strengthen
them
through
community
engagement.
So
it's
hopefully
going
to
be
something
fun
and
less
like.
C
Can
you
come
to
a
meeting
and
put
some
sticky
dots
up
here
about
what
you,
what
you
think
we're
gonna
we're
gonna
have
to
get
a
lot
of
different
kind
of
data
from
people,
both
quantitative
and
qualitative
data
and
then
sift
through
that
and
analyze
things.
So
the
first
thing
that
this
project
manager
is
going
to
do
is
work
with
us
to
format
a
communications
and
engagement
plan,
we're
not
even
other
than
this
temporary
public
art
program,
which
is
part
of
community
engagement.
C
We're
really
not
dictating
any
of
that
until
we
get
a
group
together
to
talk
and
then
the
last
thing
is
that
we
will
be
hiring
other
folks.
So
we're
asking
that
project
manager
to
help
us
understand
will
we
need
to
hire.
You
know
an
urban
designer,
a
landscape
architect,
a
community
organizer,
a
youth
coordinator?
What
are
those
key
disciplines
and
fields
that
need
to
be
brought
in
that
they
can't
provide
as
a
project
manager?
So
it's
not
just
a
project
manager
doing
engagement.
C
There
will
be
these
other
disciplines
and
opportunities
for
us
to
pay
people
for
their
work.
So
you.
A
F
C
Outline
what
that
is,
as
we
move
along
and
start
today,
is
to
get
your
juices
flowing
and
to
really
start
exercising
those
skills
and
having
conversations
and
learning
as
a
team.
But
as
we
move
along
in
the
next
couple
of
months,
I
think
it
will
become
more
clear
and
we'll
be
able
to
refine
how
to
prioritize
those
five
bullet
points.
So
we
know
what
your
most
important
focus
area
will
be.
A
C
Okay,
so
we're
going
to
go.
I
know
that
was
really.
A
C
Let's
carly,
why
don't
we
have
you
go
ahead
and
talk
to
us
about
this
program?
C
G
Happy
too
hi
everyone,
as
steph,
alluded
to
I'm
carly
stevenson.
I
am
brand
new
with
the
city
of
asheville.
I've
been
here
about
four
weeks,
I'm
coming
to
you
from
the
urban
design
center
with
the
city
of
raleigh,
where
I
spent
about
four.
G
Years
working
there
on
all
things:
urban
design
for
the
city,
I
have
a
background
in
training
in
landscape
architecture
and
I'm
really
excited
to
to
bring
all
that
to
the
city
of
asheville
and
to
be
working
with
you
all,
in
particular,
on
this
program
and
effort.
G
So
I'm
just
gonna
say
right
up
front
that
I
am
by
no
means
an
expert
on
temporary
art
programs.
This
is
something
that
I've
been
researching
over
the
past
few
weeks
and
I
have
some
experience
with,
but
I
really
want
this
to
be
a
collaborative
thing
where
we
are
working
together
with
you
all
who
I
consider
experts
in
the
public
art
field,
to
develop
a
really
solid
program.
G
So
this
year,
up
on
the
screen
is
a
sketch
from
the
2003
redesign
of
pack
square
plaza
and
park,
and
I
think
there
are
some
things
that
are
different
about
this,
that
that
are
out
there
now,
but
this
is
from
2003
and
it
was
originally
envisioned
to
be
in
three
separate
sections
that
I
don't
think
people
are
really
aware
of
these
delineations.
G
G
So,
while
this
area
includes
the
plaza
where
the
former
advanced
monument
once
stood,
it
also
includes
narrow
sidewalks.
Blank
walls
and
little
nooks
and
crannies
and
dead
zones
that
are
ripe
and
open
for
perhaps
public
art
or
some
other
type
of
activation.
To
really
make
this
a
a
welcoming
and
inviting
space.
G
So
one
step
is
a
call
for
monument
art,
so
art
that
is
specifically
communicating
and
addressing
that
monument
and
what
should
come
next
and
then
thinking
about
a
more
comprehensive
art
program
that
could
embrace
or
be
placed
across
the
entire
plaza
one
of
the
main
differences
here
being
that
the
call
for
monument
art
is
something
that
could
happen
concurrently
with
this
visioning
process
and
really
provide
valuable
feedback
and
engagement
during
that
visioning
process
to
inform
the
future
of
pack
square.
G
The
comprehensive
art
program
we
believe,
needs
to
be
informed
by
that
by
that
visioning
process
and
the
spaces
and
places
that
are
activated
by
art,
either
on
a
permanent
or
temporary
basis
need
needs
that
community
feedback
and
perhaps
could
be
something
that
happens
in
the
next
nine
months
or
more.
G
So
today,
particularly
when
we
get
into
asking
you
all
questions
and
asking
for
your
feedback,
we
want
your
input
on
that
call
for
for
monument
art,
something
that's
happening
concurrently
with
the
visioning
process,
though
I'm
going
to
go
into,
you
know,
programs
and
examples
from
other
cities
that
would
fall
into
both
of
these
categories,
just
to
get
everybody
excited
and
kind
of
understanding.
What
we're
talking
about.
G
And
here
is
a
timeline
and
framework.
Just
you
know,
draft
of
how
we
think
all
these
things
might
line
up
and
work
together.
The
pack
square
plaza
rfp
proposals
that
are
due
mid-february.
G
We're
thinking
that
the
call
for
monument
art
and
the
pack
square
visioning
project
kickoff
could
happen
around
the
same
time
and
then,
maybe
a
month
later,
the
first
monument
art
installation
could
happen,
and
these
these
circles,
the
different
sizes
and
spacing
of
them,
are
to
represent
that.
What
we're
asking
artists
to
submit
during
this
time
doesn't
have
to
be
a
long.
You
know
standing
thing,
it
could
be
a
pop-up
event.
It
could
be.
G
You
know
over
a
weekend
where
certain
types
of
community
engagement
are
happening,
but
we
want
to
to
allow
all
forms
and
formats
of
art
to
happen
around
the
monument
during
this
time
and
all
of
this,
of
course,
you
know
informing
and
helping
us
put
together
that
final
vision
document
that's
slated
to
perhaps
wrap
up
at
the
end
of
this
year
in
november
december,
and
then
taking
all
of
that
feedback
we'd
be
able
to
package
it
together
and
come
up
with
a
more
comprehensive
pack
square
program.
Temporary
art
program.
G
G
So
once
again,
this
is
the
the
pack
square,
plaza
call
for
monument
art
that
we're
going
to
be
launching
into
and
focusing
on
at
this
point
in
time,
as
mentioned,
we
believe
that
we
need
to
allow
the
community
space
to
discuss,
discuss
issues
of
social
equity
and
inclusiveness
sooner
rather
than
later.
G
I
think
you
all
are
aware
that
there
have
been
groups
of
artists
and
organizers
that
have
already
attempted
to
place
art
around
the
base
of
the
monument,
and
we
really
want
to
to
facilitate
that
and
allow
that
to
happen,
but
in
a
more
organized
way,
but
to
allow
open
communication
around
these
issues
and
we
believe
by
putting
in
a
call
for
monument
art
and
allowing
that
process
to
unfold
over
the
next
few
months,
that
we'll
get
some
really
valuable
feedback
and
communication
around
that,
and
you
know,
asheville
really
defines
itself
by
its
arts
and
culture.
G
G
This
is
a
collaboration
between
monument
lab
and
mural
arts
philadelphia,
and
this
was
a
response
to
violence
that
erupted
after
the
charlottesville
monument
across
the
country,
and
then
monuments
across
the
country
were
questioned
after
the
violence
that
erupted
in
charlottesville
and
people
started
questioning
what
are
monuments?
What
is
their
purpose
and
do
certain
ones
need
to
continue
to
stand
and
represent
a
community.
G
G
Primarily
and
is
a
working
class
neighborhood
and
the
mirror
reflection
really
begs
the
question,
as
people
are
looking
at
it
and
it's
reflecting
its
context,
does
this
monument
still
reflect
its
community
and
the
artist
in
her
word
says
this
work?
Will
transport
transmit
express
and
literally
reflect
the
landscape,
people
and
activities
that
surround
it,
and
this
is
another
example
from
that
same
series,
and
this
is
mel
chins
to
me
that
invited
the
public
to
pose
as
living
monuments
in
the
courtyard
of
city
hall.
G
G
And
finally,
looking
at
the
community
engagement
piece,
that
was
a
part
of
this
collaboration
in
philadelphia,
artists
answered
that
initial
question
for
themselves:
their
interpretation
of,
what's
an
appropriate
monument
for
the
current
city
of
philadelphia,
but
part
of
this
is
really
using
these
installations
to
engage
and
gather
feedback
from
the
community
paired
with
these
installations.
G
G
G
This
is
very
early
ideas
that
our
team
has
put
together
but
wanted
to
kind
of
walk
you
through
the
way
that
we're
thinking
about
this,
so
one
way
is
to
think
of
the
the
art
program
impact
square
plaza
as
a
gallery,
so
it
could
be
an
annual
call
for
art,
that's
based
on
a
predetermined
theme
or
event,
perhaps
happening
once
or
twice
a
year
with
locations
identified
by
artists
who
you
know
rise
to
the
call
and
are
inspired
by
the
theme
and
a
particular
location
in
the
plaza,
and
then
this
could
be
something
that's
paired
with
a
city-wide
event
or
additional
arts
programming
to
really
make
it
a
successful
thing.
G
Visioning
process
that
is
about
to
start
and
staff
could
also
support
that,
with
you
know,
site
dimensions,
site
constraints
inside
opportunities,
really
creating
almost
a
catalog
of
sites
that
that
artists
could
reserve
and
and
do
any
sort
of
artwork
that
they
feel
inspired
to
do
doesn't
necessarily
have
to
be
around
a
theme,
but
would
hopefully
respond
to
the
context
of
the
plaza
in
some
form
or
fashion.
But
main
thing
here
is
that
we
want
this
comprehensive
public
art
program
to
to
really
respond
to
community
feedback
and
be
informed
by
by
our
partners.
G
So
some
other
municipal
art
programs
that
I
looked
at
one
of
them
was
in
the
city
of
palo
alto,
which
is
the
service
unit.
G
One
of
the
programs
that
I
found
really
interesting
and
inspiring
that
palo
alto
is
doing
is
called
air
li
art,
lift
micro
grant
program.
So
it's
a
special
program
that
ran
during
2021
and
temporary
art
projects
were
put
across
the
city
in
their
commercial
corridors
and
neighborhoods,
and
they
had
40
artists
participate
and
all
of
them
were
responding
to
the
theme
of
pandemic
recovery
and
their
community's
resiliency.
G
So
the
the
city
offered
1
000
dollars
per
project.
500
was
placed
up
front
for
materials
and
then
500
was
given
after
the
completion
of
the
art
project,
and
this
was
an
an
open
call.
There
wasn't
a
deadline
for
an
application,
but
it
ran
that
entire
year
an
artist
could
submit
whenever
and
then
once
a
month.
There
was
a
panel
that
reviewed
those
proposals
and
either
approved
them
or
said:
maybe
you
think
about
it
differently
and
they
palo
alto,
did
a
really
great
job
of
creating
an
interactive
online
tour
and
gallery
space.
G
G
And
another
one
that
is
also
through
palo
alto
is
called
the
king,
plaza
artist
residency
another
program,
so
they,
the
commission,
approved
a
permanent
platform
or
plinth
being
constructed
in
their
king,
plaza
downtown,
and
then
they
commission,
rotating
installations
by
various
artists
and
the
focus
or
theme
that
they're
responding
to
in
their
own
way
revolves
around
topics
of
equity,
inclusion
and
belonging.
G
H
G
That
I
looked
into
was
called
windows
of
understanding
in
new
brunswick
new
jersey.
They
also
have
a
bit
smaller
of
a
population
close
to
56
000,
and
I
think
for
this
program.
One
of
the
things
that
really
stood
out
to
me
was
that
all
of
this,
their
public
art,
implementation
and
programming
is
very
much
shared
by
multiple
organizations.
G
G
All
right,
so
I'm
bringing
you
back
to
the
timeline
and
framework
just
to
kind
of
reorient
you
to
what
we're
talking
about
here.
I
think
we
are
now
going
to
launch
into
questions
for
you
all.
So
if
you
will
go
to
your
aha
slides
and
we
can
begin
with
the
first
question
and
just
as
a
reminder,
you
know
we
are
talking
about
you
know
both
both
steps.
The
call
for
the
monument
are
in
the
more
comprehensive
art
program,
but
a
lot
of
the
questions
that
we're
about
to
ask.
C
C
If
any
of
you
are
having
trouble
getting
the
the
site
to
work,
just
put
something
in
the
chat
and
we'll
work
with
you.
H
H
H
H
C
A
It's
me,
I'm
a
troublemaker.
I
don't
think
that
the
process
necessarily
has
to
be
led
by
bipac
artists,
but
it
does
need
to
include
diverse
storytelling
and
make
sure
that
we're
telling
stories
that
are
not
have
not
been
told
through
our
public
art
inventory
so
far.
G
A
H
C
I
A
It's
me
my
my
question
here
is
about
staff
capacity
like
if
it's
going
to
be
rolling
and
ongoing.
Is
that
going
to
cause
undue
burden
on
staff?
Is
that
going
to
become
a
nightmare
for
both
the
artists
trying
to
do
it
and
for
the
staff
overseeing
it.
C
Well,
you
know
it's
an
interesting
I'll,
just
say
quickly,
interesting
conversation
I
really
enjoyed
looking
at
the
windows
of
understanding
project.
That's
happening
in
new
jersey
because
of
the
amount
of
partners
that
were
involved
in
that.
So
maybe,
if
the
city
were
the
only
organization
to
be
supporting
this,
we
would
answer
this
question
differently
than
if
we
had
five
not-for-profits
that
were
working
together
to
make
something
like
this
happen,
so
something
to
consider
and
they
don't
have
to
be
not-for-profits,
they
can
be
private
partners,
bring
it
on.
J
A
A
C
Well,
thanks
that
was
great
and
we
are
going
to
boogie
right
into
our
next
section
and
our
next
session
do
we
have
jay
miller
on
the
line
yet.
C
K
C
K
Sure,
well,
first
of
all,
it's
it's
really
good
to
see
you
guys
some
faces.
I
haven't
seen
in
a
while
now
you
know
in
two
dimensions
on
this
computer
screen.
Some
of
you,
I
don't
know,
but
I'm
I'm
very
happy
to
be
back
in
whatever
form
of
of
the
public
art
and
cultural
commission
in
this
meeting.
So
thanks
for
having
me,
my
name
is
jay
miller.
I
I
teach
at
warren
wilson
college
in
the
philosophy
department.
K
I
am
the
former
chair
of
the
public
art
and
cultural
commission,
and-
and
this
is
something
I
think
about
at
least
in
terms
of
monuments
and
their
significance,
either
artistically
or
politically.
So
this
is
something
I've
I've
been
thinking
about
for
a
while
and
writing
about,
and
many
of
you
know
you
know
when,
when
we
did
the
celebrating
african
americans
through
public
art
project
years
ago,
there
were
a
lot
of
the
discussions
that
I'm
I'm
sure
you
guys
are
having.
K
Now
we
we
were
having
then,
and
the
initiative
behind
that
was
of
course,
was
of
course
limited
to
what
what
could
be
done
around
the
vance
monument.
This
was
this
was
before
even
it
looked
like
the
law
was
going
to
allow
for
the
removal
it
was
going
to
prevent
the
removal.
K
K
C
Questions
I
mean
one
of
them.
Basically
is:
what
do
you
think
the
purpose
of
monuments
memorials
are
and
and
either
our
community
or
in
other
communities?
How?
How
can
people
be
looking
at
framing
this.
K
I
think
it's
a
great
question
and
it's
actually,
I
think,
a
very
difficult
one
to
answer.
I
think
it's
one
of
the
preliminary
questions
when
in
in
this
specific
situation
in
in
thinking
about
the
removal
of
the
vance
monument
and
what
what
comes
after
it,
I
think
it
is
really
good
to
stop
and
and
think
in
what
I
think
is
a
pretty
profound
philosophical
question,
which
is:
what
are
what
are
monuments
supposed
to
do
and,
and
that
question
is,
is
a
pretty
complex
one
right
I
mean
they.
K
They
are
in
a
sense
arts
right,
so
they
do
the
kinds
of
things
that
that
works
of
art
are
supposed
to
do,
but
more
than
that
they
say
something
about
the
community
right,
they're,
not
just
art
in
general,
there's
specific
kind
of
art
there.
K
It's
three-dimensional
sculptural
art,
but
it
occupies
a
specific
space
and
I
think
that
that's
a
very
important
part
of
what
it
does,
but
what
I
guess
the
way
I
would
describe
my
own
view
on
what
monuments
do,
and
I
think
that
the
way
you
ask
the
question
is
right:
like
monuments
aren't
just
there
they're
doing
something,
they're
doing
work
and
the
way
I
think
about
the
work
that
they
do
or
the
function
that
they
have
is
is
almost
like
an
embodied
narrative
that
that
what
it
does
is
it
just
it
doesn't
just
symbolize
it
doesn't
just
represent,
but
but
it
actually
is
a
very
simple
way
of
conveying
a
particular
narrative,
and
that
is,
on
the
one
hand,
what's
really
powerful
what
what
can
be
very
good
about
monuments
is
they
they
can
sort
of
codify
what
what
values
are?
K
What
what
kind
of
what
kind
of
face
you
want
to
you
put
forward
to
the
public,
but
that's
also,
why
monuments,
what
it's
why
they
can
also
be
exclusive?
It's
it's
also
why
monuments
can
feel
threatening
or
or
intimidating,
because
the
kind
of
narrative
that
they
convey
can
be
very,
very
powerful,
and
I
think
this
is
at
the
heart
of
what
what's
problematic
about
confederate
monuments
in
general.
Is
that
it
it
convey?
K
It
embodies
a
certain
narrative
about
about
not
just
the
south,
but
this
the
the
you
know
the
civil
war
about
slavery
about
you
know
the
lost
cause
right.
So
I
think
what
a
lot
of
these
monuments
are
doing
are
are
glossing
over.
You
know
a
darker
history
and
conveying
a
simpler
narrative
in
ways
that
are
celebrated
and
and
the
fact
that
they
you
know
it.
K
The
fact
that
they
exist
in
particular
places
is,
is
very
important,
because
it's
not
just
a
narrative
that
some
people
hold
somewhere
right
and
it's
and
it's
represented
through
this
monument
oftentimes.
These
monuments
exist
right
in
the
middle
of
a
city.
Right,
and
I
think
location
of
these
monuments
is,
is
absolutely
critical
to
the
kind
of
narrative
they
communicate.
So
in
the
case
of
the
vance
monument,
what
that
does
is
it?
It
sanctions,
a
kind
of
narrative.
It
says.
K
K
For
this
narrative,
we
no
longer
sanction
the
narrative
when
we
no
longer
sanction
the
space
for
it,
and
so,
as
you
guys
move
ahead
and
think
about
what
does
this
space
mean
now,
I
think
it's
worth
keeping
that
in
mind,
because
it
it
says
it's
not
just
removing
the
monument,
but
thinking
about
how
we
can
sort
of
change
that
narrative.
That's
important
right,
because
if,
if
it's
going
to
be
another
monument,
whatever
it's
going
to
be,
I
think
is
is
tied
into
that.
K
How
do
I
put
it?
Maybe
a
corrective
narrative
or
sort
of
just
rethinking
what
narrative
we
want
to
communicate
through
that
space,
and
so
so.
I
think
I
think
you
guys
have
that's
a
really
exciting
responsibility
to
carry,
but
also
it's
also
a
very
important
one
right
and
and
because
it
is
very
much
a
process
of
sanctioning
what
comes
next
and
that's
not
an
easy
task,
but
I
commend
commend
you
all
for
for
doing
it.
I
think
it's
very
exciting.
C
Before
I
ask
you
the
second
question,
I
want
you
to
help
us
think
bigger
like
outside
of
our
mostly
what
we're
experiencing
is
southeastern
united
states
or
maybe
united
states
at
all.
But
I
know
you
have
a
lot
of
experience
in
europe
and
germany
in
particular,
and
wondering
if
there
was
anything
that
you
saw
like
when
you
were
studying
there
or
in
any
of
your
other
visits
like
something
innovative
about
looking
looking
at
how
to
memorialize
something
or
tell
a
story
in
public
space
that
you
could
share
with
us.
K
Sure,
as
as
many
of
you
know,
I
mean
I've
spent
some
time
in
germany,
and
I
lead
students
on
a
study
abroad.
K
Trip
there
and,
and
one
of
the
things
that
we
really
focus
on,
is
the
role
that
monuments
play,
particularly
in
in
recognizing
germany's
very,
very
dark
and
sordid
past
and
in
the
function
that
that
monument
play
in
postwar
germany
is,
I
think,
a
model
for
for
the
rest
of
the
world
and
unfortunately,
we
haven't
seen
it
to
quite
to
the
degree
in
the
united
states
in
owning
up
to
a
darker
past.
K
But
germany
has
really
embraced
this
idea
that
that
monuments
can
be
really
progressive,
that
they
can
be
dynamic,
that
they
don't
have
to
sort
of
fit
the
the
archetype
of
what
monuments
are
expected
to
be,
and,
in
fact,
rethinking
what
a
monument
can
be,
not
just
what
it
can
look
like,
or
what
purpose
it
can
serve,
but
but
radically
thinking
of
of
of
what
the
monuments
could
be.
K
Is
part
of
that
way
of
dealing
with
the
past
that
you
know,
and
so
there's
this
there's
this
term
the
counter-monument
right
that
it's
doing
the
opposite
of
what
monuments
they're
there
forever
and
they're
making
a
definitive
statement.
So
germany
embraced
this
whole
trend
of
counter
monuments,
in
which
the
idea
was
that
it
would
be
the
opposite
of
of
our
traditional
monuments.
You'd
have
monuments
that
would
be
impermanent.
K
That
would
disappear
that
you
could
interact
with
people
could
scrawl
on
them
and
do
all
the
things
that
you're
not
allowed
to
do
with
monuments
as
a
way
to
show
like
look
we're
we're
open,
right
and
and
the
monuments
weren't
trying
to
give
you
a
specific
narrative.
They
weren't
trying
to
sort
of
commemorate
any
particular
thing
they
were
sort
of
open-ended
and
that
open-endedness
as
to
what
they
could
be
or
what
they
were.
K
Communicating
was
part
of
germany's
effort
to
come
to
terms
in
a
pretty
blunt
way,
with
with
a
very
dark
past
right
in
in
not
trying
to
dictate
the
terms
of
how
you
engage
with
with
monuments
in
public
spaces,
but
leaving
it
a
little
bit
open-ended
as
a
way
of
of
saying
like
we're,
we're
not
going
to
we're
there's
no
one
way
to
do
it.
There's
no
one
way
to
do
a
monument.
There's.
K
No
one
way
to
understand
this
narrative,
so
that
open-endedness,
I
think,
is
very
instructive
and
I
think,
as
we
you
know,
as
as
we
come
to
terms
with
what
to
do
in
these
spaces,
where
confederate
monuments
have
been
removed
or
problematic
monuments,
I
think,
being
very
open-minded
as
to
what
a
monument
can
be
is
is
a
very
important
part
of
that
in
germany
offers
a,
I
think,
a
very
instructive
lesson
there
that
you
know
it
may
or
may
not
work
in
a
specific
place
like
asheville,
but
I
think
that
at
least
thinking
about
monuments,
sort
of
expanding
the
scope
of
what
a
monument
could
be
or
what
public
art
could
be.
K
You
know
and
that's
the
question
of
permanence
or
impermanence
of
whether
it
is
made
by
multiple
individuals
of
whether
it's
interactive.
You
know
those
those
kinds
of
questions.
C
So
the
the
last
question
that
I
had
for
you
was
if
there
was
something
that
you
think
that
this
group
should
be
thinking
about
before
they
engage
with
community.
What?
What
that?
What
would
that
be?
What's.
C
K
I
mean:
listen,
you
guys,
you
guys,
you
guys
know
that
that
question
better
than
anyone
I
mean.
That's
that's
what
you
do,
but
I
I
mean
I
guess
what
I
would
say
just
based
on
the
experience
with
working
through
the
celebrating
through
celebrating
african
americans
through
public
art
project,
was
that
we
really.
You
know
you'll
recall
that
the
the
lengths
we
went
to
to
engage
in
a
process
to
step
back
from
the
decision-making
process
and
really
hear
so.
I
guess
what
I
would
say.
K
The
question
to
ask
is:
how
can
we
be
receptive
rather
than
sort
of
active
in
the
formation
of
what
comes
next,
and
I
think
that
I
I
think
we
actually
did
a
fairly
good
job
on
the
on
the
receiving
end
of
making
a
space
for
people
to
communicate,
and
that
doesn't
mean
there
will
be
consensus
right.
It
means
that
there
will
be
conflicting
views
that
it'll
be
messy,
but
stepping
back
in
and
thinking
about
how
to
create
that
space.
That's
inclusive
that
allows
those
communities
who've
been
left
out
of
that
public
process.
K
You
know
with
with
the
presence
of
vance
monument
in
its
absence,
I
think
the
most
important
question
to
ask
is:
how
can
we
create
a
space
in
which
these
various
viewpoints
can
be
fully
expressed
and
articulated?
K
You
know
that
we
emphasize
that
quite
a
bit,
and
I
think
I
think
part
of
what
came
out
of
that.
You
know
part
of
the
public
art
in
that
process.
Was
that
deliberative
process
hearing
people
stand
up
ins
and
talk
about
you
know
this.
What
it
was
like
to
walk
downtown.
You
know
what
it
was
like
to
see
this
large
sort
of
phallic
looking
thing
that
that
didn't
resonate
with
their
values.
K
You
know
that
was
very
important
and
very
very
insightful,
and
in
and
just
creating
that
space
of
of
listening
was,
I
think,
the
most
important
thing
that
that
came
out
of
that,
and
so
I
would
imagine-
and
I'm
sure
you
guys
are
already
having
these
these
conversations.
But
you
know
that,
as
we
all
remember,
those
processes
are
really
hard.
K
They
get
hung
up
on
many
many
things
and
and
there's
this
kind
of,
I
guess,
impetus
to
move
forward
and
and-
and
that
was
one
place
where
I
thought
like
we
took
our
time
and
we
tried
to
hear
in
in
and
there
were
lessons
to
be
learned,
obviously,
and-
and
we
have
to
think
about
how
to
do
that-
the
right
way.
What
does
inclusiveness
mean?
How
do
we,
you
know?
What
is
this
community
that
we're
talking
about
and
how
do
we?
How
do
we
invite
them
into
the
space?
To
articulate
different
points
of
view?
K
I
think
that's.
The
most
important
thing
is
to
think
about
how
to
create
an
environment
of
receptivity
and
hearing
people
out
on
on
this
question
of
what
comes
next.
I
guess
I
mean
that's
all
very
abstract
right,
but
but
I
do
think
that
that
was
that.
That's
that's
the
lesson
we
learned
from
that
project,
and
I
I
can
imagine
that
being
central
to
this
phase
of
what
you're
doing.
C
Okay,
so
commission
members
do
you
have
any
questions.
L
B
A
lot
of
questions
that
was
so
fascinating
and
I
don't
see
if
I
can
articulate
even
a
few
of
them,
because
it
sounds
like
the
way
you're
talking
about
monuments
is,
is
not
a
way
that
I
even
thought
about
what
monuments
could
be
right.
I
think
of
monuments
as
there's
something
about
the
past
and
they're.
M
B
B
So
thinking
about
one,
what
what
are
we
going
to
define
a
monument
as
and
I
feel
like,
there's
going
to
need
to
be,
and
I
love
the
focus
too
on
bringing
in
the
community
community
input
and
receptivity,
but
it
also
seems
like
there's
going
to
be
some
point
where
we
need
to
do
some
re-education
or
something
around
like
what
monuments
can
even
be
before
people
start
submitting
ideas,
and
I
I
don't
know
that,
there's
a
question
in
there
is:
do
you
have
any
suggestions
or
any
or
how
are
you?
B
K
Yeah,
that's
a
good,
I
mean
that's
that's
great,
and
I
it
I
I
don't
know
I
mean
like
I
said.
The
best
I
can
come
up
with
is
something
like
an
embodied
narrative
right.
It's.
It
is
in
a
sense
telling
a
story
right
and
it's
not
necessarily
a
historical
story.
So
I
think
that,
back
to
this
question
of
like
what
could
a
monument
be,
I
think
it's
important,
not
just
for
the
aesthetics
of
it
like
oh
wow,
it
doesn't
have
to
be
a
a
dude
on
a
horse.
K
In
fact,
it
probably
shouldn't
be
right,
but
but
part
of
part
of
rethinking
the
you
know
the
the
definition
or
like
art
or
or
at
least
questioning
our
assumptions
about
what
monuments
are
is,
I
think,
fits
very
nicely
with
what's
happening
with
pax
square
now.
So,
if
we,
if
we're
being
asked
to
rethink
history
and
rethink
our
values
and
in
light
of
taking
down
the
vance
monument,
then
sort
of
a
parallel
with
that
is
rethinking
the
the
artistic
side
of
it
right.
K
So
there's
the
historical
and
social
political
right
like
we
need
to
rethink
about
our
narratives
like
we
need
to
question
them,
and
maybe
we
just
need
to
change
them
and
scrap
the
way
they've
been
told.
Well,
the
same
can
be
implied
to
like
how
the
monument
actually
looks
and-
and
I
think
that
most
of
you
will
concur
with
me
when
I
say
that
that's
probably
going
to
be
an
uphill
battle
in
in
asheville,
where
people
like
things
to
you
know,
look
like
the
way.
K
You
know
that
the
things
that
they
expect
them
to
look
like
and-
and
that
might
be
an
uphill
battle,
but
I
think
that
if
that's
part
of
the
idea
of
rethinking
our
expectations
that
maybe
that
can
be
a
way
to
kind
of
get
people
to
see
the
possibilities
a
little
more
broadly.
If
that
yeah.
D
Good
to
see
you
so
kind
of
jumping
off
of
what
you
just
said
in
terms
of
people's
expectation
of
what
a
monument
should
look
like
like
how
much
weight
should
we
put
on
the
fact
that
this
thing
is
takes
up
a
very
prominent
part
of
our
city
skyline,
and
you
know,
as
someone
who,
as
you
know,
firsthand
has
photographed
our
skyline
so
much
and
those
images
get
used
and
it's
one
of
the
things
that
draws
people
to
our
city,
you
know.
D
Is
there
some
kind
of
of
I
mean
I
hate
to
box
anything
in,
but
is
there
some
kind
of
boundary
that
needs
to
be
sort
of
taken
into
consideration
with
regards
this
thing
can't
be
short
and
flat
because
it
doesn't
have
enough
prominence
like
do
we?
Should
we
take
things
like
that
in
consideration,
because
I
do
feel
like
it?
You
know
it
will
be
very
difficult
for
me
to
capture
captivating
skylines
if,
if
there's
this
insignificant,
looking
thing
in
the
middle
of
the
town
center,
you
know.
K
K
You
know
the
discussions
leading
up
to
that
were
very
much
about
location,
right
and
and-
and
there
was
a
robust
debate
around
whether
a
work
like
that
should
be
situated
in
african-american,
neighborhoods
or
sort
of
you
know,
distinctive
centers
that
that
that
celebrate,
you
know
existing
communities
or
whether
in
in
other
people,
made
strong
arguments
that
no
it
should
be
right
in
the
middle
of
everything.
K
It
should
be
seen
as
a
kind
of
counterweight
to
the
vance
monument
you
know
prior
to
it
being
taken
down,
and
so
I
think
that
the
conversation
does
shift.
If
what
we're
talking
about
is,
is
you
know,
geographically
and
in
in
in
a
social
sense,
this?
The
center
of
downtown
right
part
of
the
skyline
part
of
our
sort
of
you
know
that
that
that
visual
of
that
space
right
is
is
being
right
in
the
middle
of
everything
so
yeah
I
mean,
I
think,
that
being
in
the
center
it
there.
K
There
are
probably
some
constraints
or
not
constraints,
but
like
some
aesthetic
choices
that
I
think
would
be
appropriate
to
it
being
right
in
the
middle
right
in
the
questions
of
visibility
and
so
forth.
But
that
also
reggie
is
is
like
I
was
saying,
is
that
you
know
that
that
makes
perfect
sense,
but
also
negotiating
that
with
like
what
what
does
the
community
think
and
balancing
those
aesthetic
choices
and
and
those
kinds
of
values
against
you
know
what
what
do
people
want
right
so
may
you
know
the
kind
of
aesthetic
versus
democratic
choice.
K
That
was
something
we
ran
into
quite
a
bit,
but
you
know
I
tend
to
agree
with
you
like:
go
go
big
right.
If
you've
got
that
space
go
big
right,
change,
the
skyline
right
make
it
make
it
so
that
it
can't
be
ignored,
but
again
right,
I
I
wouldn't
be
making
that
decision
right,
I'd
be
sort
of
stepping
back
from
it,
but
you
raised
a
very,
very
good
point.
I
think.
C
A
Really
quick
ally,
everybody's
making
super
good
points.
I
love
this
idea
of
re-education
about
monuments
because
that's
one
of
our
education
is
one
of
our
duties,
but
I
also
think
that
we
have
a
duty
to
train
people
on
how
to
do
public
art
as
well,
and
that
should
be
part
of
the
consideration
to
make
this
process
accessible
to
people
to
be
able
to
to
do
artwork
in
the
plaza,
so
just
want
to
throw
that
out.
There
yeah.
F
Yes,
I
do,
I
think
so
anyway,
I
I'm
coming
in
a
little
bit
late.
I
had
a
long
piano
move
this
morning.
Jay,
it's
good
to
see
you.
I
have
a
question.
You've
obviously
done
research
on
a
lot
of
other
places
with
public
monuments.
Are
there
other
places
where
we've
gone
from
a
monument
that
was
historically
offensive
to
no
monument
to
just
having
to
to
a
vast
rethinking
of
that
space
or
is
all
or
in
all
situations
when
you
are
fixing
a
wrong
like
this?
K
That's
a
good
question,
and-
and
I
mean
I
guess
you
know
most
of
the
place
that
I've
looked
at
is-
is
that
there's
there's
a
need
not
to
just
negate
what
was
there,
but
to
sort
of
replace
what
was
there
to
sort
of
make
an
affirmative
stance
against
that?
You
know
what
that
space
signified
beforehand.
K
I
mean
I'm
sure
there
are
plenty
of
examples,
but
I
you
know,
I
think
I
think
it
kind
of
in
in
response
to
what
reggie
was
saying
is
like
now
that
that
space
is
available,
the
opportunity
to
really
make
a
statement
right
to
put
an
exclamation
on
that
point,
that
there's
there's
something
to
that
I
mean
I
think
there
are
cases
in
which,
like
subdued
and
just
sort
of
a
a
quiet
return
to
normalcy
is
is
maybe
appropriate.
K
But,
but
here
I
guess
personally,
I
would
agree
that
it's
a
time
to
to
make
a
statement
to
put
forth
a
a
new
narrative,
rather
than
just
kind
of
like
quietly
remove
the
old
narrative.
If
that
makes
sense.
C
All
right,
we
got
your
personal
opinion.
I
was
wondering
if
people
are
gonna
come
out
with
that
great
job
jay.
Thank
you.
So
much.
You
are
welcome
to
stay
with
us
and
participate
for
the
rest
of
the
the
meeting
and
what
I
hope
we
can
do
is
also
call
on
you
in
the
future
to
perhaps
help
develop
some
partnerships
and
seems
like
we
came
out
of
this.
Knowing
there's
a
lot
of
education,
so
katie,
yes,
we
nodding
yeah,
chair
cornell
says:
yes,
let's
do
this
and
then
for
the
rest
of
you.
K
Thanks
steph,
I'm
I
I
am
going
to
sign
I've
I've
actually
written
about
that
piece
in
in
and
that's
sort
of
my
my
take
on
why
that
can?
Why
doing
it
like
that,
can
make
a
pretty
profound
statement
by
sort
of
undoing
the
narrative
says,
I'm
glad
you
mentioned
that
I
would
love
to
stay
with
you
guys.
I
do
have
to
go,
but
I
will
gladly
join
you
guys,
anytime,
I'm
so
excited
by
this
project.
K
C
N
Am
happy
to
participate
so
just
to
give
you
a
little
bit
of
background
of
who
I
am.
I
am
joseph
fox.
Originally
from
tryon
north
carolina
worked
on
the
nina
simone
project.
Down
there.
N
She
actually
just
fyi,
nina
eunice
wayman,
actually
was
her
her
sister
francis
married
one
of
my
cousins,
so
francis
fox
nina's
sister
is
one
of
my
cousins
by
marriage
and
so
was
instrumental
in
helping
getting
the
plaza
put
there
as
well
as
have
met
with
the
historical
society
around
the
birthplace
and
and
getting
that
name
as
a
historical
site
in
the
asheville
area.
N
I'm
the
vice
president
of
the
dr
martin
luther
king
jr
association
of
asheville
in
buncombe
county,
and
we
just
recently
finished
our
project
with
the
equal
justice
initiatives
around
the
three
individuals
of
records
that
were
lynched
in
buncombe
county
and
did
the
historical
marker
installation,
and
so
that's
just
a
little
bit
about
who
I
am
and
in
terms
of
the
two
prompts
that
we
were
sent.
N
You
know
I
see
memorials
and
and
monuments
as
a
a
way
to
as
jay
was
saying,
provide
a
narrative
and
in
most
cases
the
historical
narrative
is
incorrect.
For
for
most
monuments,
you
know,
if
you
look
at
monuments
throughout
the
south,
they
were
usually
erected
in
protests
to
something.
In
fact,
if
you
looked
at
most
of
the
ones
that
have
been
erected
since
the
civil
war,
most
of
those
were
in
protest
of
the
civil
war.
So
I
think
we
have
an
opportunity
to
to
really
reshape
the
narrative
around
memorials.
N
You
know
they
are
to
send
a
signal
to
to
provide
a
a
narrative
and
off
too
often
we
we
think
of
a
memorial
in
terms
of
just
a
single
statue
or
a
single
item,
and
so
when
I,
when
I
think
about
the
opportunity
here,
I
think
we
have
the
opportunity
to
use
the
space
to
build
upon
the
true
complete
history
of
the
asheville
area.
So
a
nod,
and
so
I'm
envisioning
something
that
is
very
inclusive
in
its
public
art
feature.
N
That
may
be
a
night
to
the
the
cherokee
as
the
original
folks
that
were
here
on
the
land,
a
a
nod
to
the
railroad
system
that
occurred
here
and
the
many
folks
prisoners
that
were
killed
to
actually
build
the
railroad
system
in
this
area.
A
night
to
the
entrepreneurs
that
really
helped
architect
the
the
buildings
of
downtown
the
historical
eagle
market
street
area,
as
well
as
some
of
the
areas
that
have
been
displaced.
N
But
I
also
see
it
as
a
a
point
of
interest
where
it
could
point
folks
that
are
visiting
the
asheville
downtown
areas
to
those
sites
and
so
not
just
a
central
location,
but
something
that
becomes
a
beacon
showing
folks,
the
historical
areas
of
eagle
market
street,
the
historical
buildings
such
as
stephen
lee's
center
building
on
you
know
again
the
the
the
natural
geographic
beauty
of
of
the
region,
the
the
water,
the
waterfalls,
the
mountain
so
incorporating
as
much
public
art
into
a
piece
that
speaks
to
community
and
defines
community
in
a
very
inclusive
manner,
and
then
the
the
second
prompt
that
we
were
given
was
around.
N
What
questions
should
this
body
be
thinking
about
before
trying
to
engage
the
public?
So
I
just
jotted
down
a
couple
things
here.
So
the
the
first
question
I
I
jot
it
down
was:
how
does
this
body
provide
access
for
input?
So
how
do
you
be
more
inclusive
around
getting
that
that
input
in
an
equitable
format?
N
How
do
you
build
that
trust
that
leads
to
open
and
honest
dialogue?
So
you
know
with
that
there's
an
assumption.
There's
some
re-education
that
has
has
to
take
place.
There's
some
trust
building
that
has
to
take
take
place.
N
N
Another
question
I
put
down
was:
how
do
we
get
input
from
the
youth
of
our
community?
We
are
often
talking
about
retaining
our
young
folks
and
our
young
adults,
but
we
don't
give
them
a
voice
in
the
decision
making.
So
how
do
we
we
build
that
in
to
the
system
of
communication
before
we
start
even
doing
outreach?
N
What's
the
underlying
issues
that
we
need
to
clarify
so
as
we're
engaging
the
community?
What's
that
those
underlining
re
education
pieces
that
we
need
to
address,
and
then
what
is
the
process
for
community
engagement?
N
Often
too
far
often
we
we
talk
about
community
leaders
and
we
make
the
assumptions
that
we
know
who
those
community
leaders
are,
and
we
have
you
know,
former
leaders,
we
have
informal
leaders
and
we
have
folks
that
are
doing
some
really
good
work,
but
it
seems
like
we
always
reach
out
to
the
same
people
and
and
that's
the
voice,
that's
at
the
table.
So
how
do
we
build
a
process
that
brings
in
the
folks
that
we
normally
don't
hear
from?
N
N
How
do
we
let
them
receive
that
feedback
around
the
decisions
that
was
made,
the
decision
process
that
was
made
and
the
value
of
their
input.
So
those
were
just
a
few
things
that
I
jotted
down
around.
You
know
trying
to
look
at
this
from
an
equitable
lens,
an
outsider
lens
to
say
if
I
was
just
hearing
about
this
project
for
the
first
time,
what
would
be
the
concerns
that
I
would
have
as
a
community
person?
N
N
I
would
do
the
same
thing
with
and,
and
let
me
just
back
up
to
say
you
know,
part
of
my
role
is
yeah,
I'm
retired
from
the
community
college
system.
I
own
my
own
consulting
firm
and
one
of
the
things
you
know
we
did
several
years
ago
through
the
consulting
firm
was
work
with
diversity
and
inclusion
of
workplace
based
organizations,
and
one
of
the
things
I
heard
from
several
of
the
folks
on
the
group
was
well.
N
We
need
to
hold
professional
development
and
networking
activities
downtown
people,
particularly
of
color,
color
and
female
needs
to
be
seen
in
downtown,
and
I
said
well,
first
of
all,
have
you
asked
folks
if
they
want
to
be
seen
downtown?
N
Have
you
asked
folks,
if
they're
comfortable
being
downtown
versus
going
to
where
they
are
so
we
actually
started
doing
some
outreach
at
the
edgerton
center
at
the
stephen
lee
center
at
the
ymi
and
our
participation
rate
shot
way
up
and
so
part
of
it
is
if
you're
talking
about
the
youth
segment
meeting
them
where
they
are
faith-based
organizations.
N
Where
do
they
get
their
news,
whether
they
associate
whether
they
congregate,
and
how
do
you
use
their
modes
of
communications
to
reach
that
group?
If
you're
talking
about
the
business
folks
and
entrepreneurs,
what
partnerships
can
you
have
with
the
african-american
business
group
or
other
association?
The
diversity
engagement
coalition,
so
I
I
find
that
asheville
has
a
lot
of
resources,
but
we
all
are
are
operating
in
our
silos
and
nobody's
bringing
us
all
to
the
table
to
have
open
communications
around
what
is
community
and
what
does
community
look
like
for
them?
N
N
L
Dr
fox,
this
is
shirley
white
science.
What
is
your
take
on
knowing
the
history
of
your
of
the
of
the
community
or
buncombe
county,
if
we're
going
to
be
inclusive
in
creating
something
that
will
benefit
the
whole
community?
Do
you
think
history
is
important
and
if
the
young
youth
do
not
know
the
history
and
it's
not
being
taught
in
the
school,
what's
your
take
on
how
we
get
them
to
understand
when
they
get
ready
to
make
decisions
or
how
include
the
input.
N
N
You
know
I
I
talked
about
it
and
actually
just
did
a
presentation
for
the
thermobale
friendship
council
down
in
in
polk
county
around
teaching
the
complete
history.
You
know
a
lot
of
times.
We
hear
terms
like
critical
race
theory
and
people
get
caught
up
in
that,
and
so
I
I
like
to
say
teaching
the
complete
history,
and
so
I
tend
to
think
we
have
to
start
with
the
complete
history
of
acknowledging
and
recognizing
personal
and
community
trauma,
particularly
in
communities
of
a
doctor,
hugh
and-
and
I
like
to
say
communities
of
dr
you.
You
know.
N
You
know
one
of
the
things
I
ask
is
who
gave
folks
that
term
and-
and
how
did
you
know,
and
did
we
even
ask
people
if,
if
they
want
that
term,
so
I
think
there's
a
lot
of
re-educating
around
what
is
our
true,
complete
history,
and
I
think
that
has
to
start
with
an
assumption
that
there's
going
to
be
opposition,
an
assumption
that
we
cannot
count
on
the
public
school
system
to
embrace
it,
not
on
the
local
level,
not
on
a
state
level
and
not
on
a
federal
level.
N
So
we
then
start
working
with
our
spheres
of
influences,
and
so
we
look
at
our
youth
group
particularly
focused
on
youth.
Here
we
start
looking
at
who
who
is
working
with
our
youth
youth
groups?
Who
do
we
bring
in
that?
Are
our
speakers
or
can
be
speakers?
And
how
do
we
tell
the
true
history
of
even
going
all
the
way
back
to
the
cherokee
and
and
how
you
know
in
most
of
downtown
asheville
and
buckingham
county?
It
was
cherokee
land.
N
But
it
is
it's
finding
out
where
particularly
addressing
the
youth
piece
here,
finding
out
who's
working
with
the
youth
groups.
What
youth
groups
do
we
have
and
then
part
of
that
is
making
sure
they
have
a
voice
and
not
only
the
re-education
piece.
But
what
does
that
look
like
and
so
that
shared
leadership
from
the
youth.
I
B
Yeah
thanks
so
much
dr
fox,
I
was
wondering
if
you
could
expand
on
I.
I
love
the
way
you
illuminated
just
this.
The
fact
that,
like
not
everybody
wants
to
come
downtown
or
be
downtown
or-
and
I
also
see
that
this
site
has
already
become
a
nexus
of
conversation
right-
that
people
are
engaging
with
it
already
and
they
there's
there's
there's
kind
of
a
hunger
to
be
in
dialogue
and
be
making
things
around
it.
B
So
I'm
wondering
if
you
could
maybe
speak
to
or
expand
on
just
the
idea,
like
the
the
place
that
this
particular
site
occupies
right
now,
maybe
in
your
spheres
of
influence
like
in
terms
of
is
obviously
it
wouldn't
be
the
only
way
we
would
do
outreach
inviting
people
to
actually
come
to
the
site
and
and
interact
with
it,
but
just
thinking
about
that
and
maybe
things
we
aren't
thinking
of
in
in
our
current
perspectives
as
we're
sort
of
examining
it.
I
was
wondering
if
you
could
just
think
with
us
about
that.
A
N
Yes,
so
you're,
absolutely
right,
not
everybody
is,
and
particularly
people,
but
dr
hugh
have
an
understanding
of
most
small
town
downtowns,
where
you
know
in
most
places
they
were
slave
trade
markets,
and
so
we
have
to
acknowledge
that
and
then
we
also
have
to
acknowledge
the
whole
system
of
redlining
and
and
separating
folks,
based
on
high
risk
areas
and
low
risk
areas.
N
The
hot
the
red
zones
versus
the
green
zones,
and
just
you
know
I
do
a
whole
piece
on
on
black
entrepreneurs
and
how
they
were
self-made
because
they
had
to
within
their
communities,
create
support
systems
for
the
community,
so
salons
and
barber
shops
and
restaurants,
etc
to
serve
the
community
because
they
weren't
fully
engaged
with
being
allowed
in
main
street
in
downtown.
N
And
so
there
is
a
a
part
of
that
history.
We've
got
to
acknowledge
that
you
know,
as
an
individual
of
a
doctor,
hugh
that
you
know
split
my
time
between
black
living
in
black
mountain
and
trying.
I
rarely
go
to
downtown
asheville,
and
it's
not
that
I
can't
it's
that
I
don't
want
to.
You
know,
there's
there's
not
a
whole
lot
there
for
me,
culturally,
and
so
as
you're
thinking
about
the
site.
N
How
do
you
and
and
that's
why
I
say
we
have
the
opportunity
to
build
community
and
to
use
the
site
to
point
to
historical
communities,
but
there's
nothing
culturally,
drawing
me
to
downtown
asheville.
Even
if
you
talk
about
hera's
civic
center,
you
know
when
you
look
at
the
shows
that
they
they
have.
N
We
are
thrown
a
bone
every
now
and
then
around
who
they
bring.
That
would
speak
to
african-american
culture
and
heritage,
and
so
I
think
when
you
just
think
about
the
site,
you
have
to
be
more
intentional
and
strategic
around.
How
do
we
build
community?
N
So
you
you're
getting
real
talk
for
me.
Well,
you
guys
know
me.
Well
I
don't
bite
my
tongue
so
well.
L
Without
the
thoughts,
I
guess
you
say
the
same
thing
about
me
and
that's
kind
of
old
school,
I
know
there
are
students
going
to
different
locations.
I
mean
agencies
for
after
school
program
and
all
but
everybody
not
telling
the
same
story
and
don't
know
the
history-
and
I
was
just
sitting
here
thinking-
is
there
a
possibility
where
this
committee
organization
could
offer
a
little
workshop
over
a
week
or
two
to
educate
the
students?
L
So
they
know
the
truth,
because
a
lot
of
people
who
running
these
after
school
program
and
agencies
don't
know
the
truth
and,
like
I've
had
taken
kids
in
the
biltmore
house,
so
I've
never
been
there
before
and
they
were
born
here,
and
these
are
adults,
and
so
I
was
just
using
that
as
an
excuse
and
I
think
they
need
to
be
if
we
did
a
workshop
for
the
youth,
so
we
they
can
really
get
a
vision
and
and
be
able
to
think
about
how
they
can
have
an
impact
on
the
city
and
become
adult
civil
citizens.
L
N
Yeah-
and
I
would
piggyback
off
of
that
to
say-
also
engage
the
youth
in
finding
that
history
out.
So
when
we
did
when
the
mlk
association
did
the
historical
markers
you
know,
part
of
that
project
is
a
student
essay
contest
and
we
had,
I
think
we
had
52
students
across
all
the
school
districts
participate,
and
that
was
one
of
the
main
takeaways
as
they
had
to
research,
an
issue
that
was
tied
to
racial
injustices
in
their
community
for
them
to
come
back
and
say
gosh.
N
I
didn't
know
that
was
that
occurred
in
asheville
and
buncombe
county,
and
there
was
a
whole
range
of
topics
that
they
wrote
on,
but
their
their
takeaway
was.
How
do
we
get
more
involved?
And
so
you
know,
we've
encouraged
the
school
systems,
particularly
when
we
weren't
able
to
do
the
physical
peace
margin
rally.
N
A
N
Versus
an
essay
contest,
particularly
when
money
is
attached
to
it,
you
know
we
were
able
to
give
out
over
eleven
thousand
dollars.
I
think
between
the
equal
justice
initiative
pot
of
money
and
then
I
think
the
mlk
association
kicked
in
another
three
or
four
thousand
dollars,
because
the
essays
were
so
good.
N
We
wanted
to
recognize
as
many
kids
as
possible
around
that,
and
then
we
created
a
youtube
channel
and
asked
them
to
subscribe
to
it
and
again
thinking
about
that
youth
group
and
where
they
get
their
information,
so
connect
not
only
sharing
information
but
then
connecting
them
to
sources
where
they
can
continue
to
learn
about
the
projects.
A
So
two
parts,
one
steph:
I
wonder
if
you
could
talk
a
little
bit
about
the
efforts
to
share
the
history
of
the
area
and
what
those
plans
are
and
then
dr
fox
you've,
given
me
so
much
good
ideas,
saying
I've
got
a
hand
cramp
I've
been
writing
really
fast.
But
one
thing
I
loved
is
this
idea
of
needing
to
create
like
anchor
points,
cultural
anchor
points
within
downtown
and
and
the
question
is:
do
you
think
that
we
can
create
enough
anchor
points?
C
I
just
I'm
going
to
insert
here
that
we
are
working
with
friends
of
buncombe
county
special
collection
to
start
a
project
that
really
looks
at
the
history
and
probably
the
narrative,
so
the
past
present
and
future
of
pac
square.
They
are
organizing
an
index
of
all
kinds
of
books
and
newspaper
articles
any
kind
of
reference
where
people
can
learn
about
that
history
as
far
as
it's
recorded.
C
But
it's
also
going
to
include,
I
think,
oral
histories
and
any
other
kind
of
media
and
materials
and
and
records
that
catherine
calhoun
cutshall
can
help
us
get
organized
and
then
a
second
piece
of
that
is
that
there
are
two
three
existing
dioramas
of
pack
square.
They
used
to
be
in
the
asheville
art
museum.
They
were
moved
over
there
when
they
redid
the
art,
museum
and
they'll,
be
working
with
the
community
to
create
some
kind
of
interpretation
around
them
and
potentially
look
at
creating
one.
That's
like
hey.
C
What
would
the
future
of
pack
square
plaza
look
like?
So
there
are
just
to
the
point
of
of
history
and
storytelling.
There's
going
to
be
a
lot
of
opportunities
for
us
to
collaborate
with
different
groups,
including
them.
N
Okay,
so
so
I'm
going
to
piggyback
off
of
that
yeah
I
put
my
little
consultant
hat
on
so
part
of
that
is,
I
suggest
you
make
that
a
mobile
traveling
exhibit
again.
We
don't
want
to
make
the
assumption
that
everybody's
going
to
go
to
the
special
collections
room
in
the
library,
and
I
would
rotate
that
that
would
be.
N
My
kickoff
point
would
be
the
special
collection
room,
my
kickoff
and
my
ending
point,
but
then
I
would
rotate
that
through
community
development
centers
through
churches,
through
colleges
and
come
and
partner
with
the
diverse
student
groups
on
college
campuses
to
have
like
a
week
display
there
and
and
again
there's
all
kind
of
by-products
with
that
that
you
could
do
so
that
that's
just
a
quick
thought
on
that,
and
then
I
would
invite
some
of
the
younger
kids
to
read
about
it
and
make
a
tick
tock
video
on
it.
N
There
is
so
much
that
you
could
do
with
that
piece
to
be
to
bring
in
that
equity
lens
and
to
bring
in
inclusivity
versus
building
the
the
the
building
and
thinking
they're
gonna
come
you.
I
N
N
The
equal
justice
initiative
three
well
two
sites
that
are
really
downtown:
the
third
really
out
more
at
river
arts
district.
But
there's
there
are
focal
points
already
in
the
downtown
area
that
can
celebrate
community
if
you're,
very
intentional
and
strategic
around
celebration
of
community.
That
then
becomes
the
anchor
point
that
points
people
to
these
various
sites.
That
may
even
be
a
plaque
that
says
this
is
where
it
is
located
from
here.
You
know
I
love
traveling
around
the
country
and
seeing
the
billboards
that
says
the
beacon.
N
Is
your
x
number
of
miles
from
the
beacon
anybody
know
what
I'm
talking
about
the
beacon
restaurant
in
south
spartanburg
south
carolina.
You
know
I
took
students
to
a
conference
in
los
angeles,
los
angeles,
california
and
there's
a
billboard
out
there
that
says
you're,
so
many
thousand
miles
away
from
the
the
beacon.
So
having
that
mindset
about
being
more
strategic
and
intentional
around
this
process,.
E
Thank
you,
dr
fox,
appreciate
your
input
here
I
mean
between
you
and
jay
you've,
given
us
a
lot
to
be
able
to
think
about
so
my
question
is:
we've
talked
a
lot
about
best
practices
and
what
people
do
it
right
and
kind
of
what
you've
seen
is
is
kind
of
how
people
approach
us
to
get
the
best
results.
I
kind
of
look
at
the
other
side
to
get
some
input
from
you
we're
not.
E
We
are
inexperienced
at
this
we're
trying
to
be
able
to
do
what's
right,
but
there's
mistakes
we're
naturally
going
to
make
or
things
that
we
will
miss.
What
have
you
seen
out
there
that
have
been
pitfalls
where
people
that
they
fell
into
that
allowed
them
to
be
able
to
have
less
than
the
project
that
they,
the
the
the
end
result
that
they
started
out
to
babel
half?
What
are
some
of
the
common
mistakes?
You've
seen
that
we
should
keep
our
eyes
on
as
we
go
through
this.
N
Who
is
not
at
the
table
that
should
be
at
the
table
in
terms
of
deciding
the
process
and
then
probably
the
other
biggest
mistake
is
the
assumptions
of
thinking.
We
know
what
people
want
without
getting
them
to
fully
engage
and-
and
that's
that's
just
repeat
I'll,
say-
that's
really-
probably
the
hardest
part,
because
you
know
no
matter
how
creative
we
can
be
you're
still
going
to
have
folks
because
of
historical
narrative
and
their
experiences
that
are
going
to
be
very
distrustful
of
the
process
that
are
not
going
to
always
fully
engage.
N
So
you
know
the
one
thing
that
I
like
to
say
tell
groups
is
there
is
no
one
best
way
as
a
consultant.
I
tell
folks,
I
don't
know
everything
and
if
you're
dealing
with
a
consultant
that
tells
you
they
know
the
best
way
to
do
it.
I
would
run
the
other
way,
because
every
community
is
different,
every
situation
is
different.
C
Thank
thank
you,
so
very
much
for
coming
and
speaking
to
us.
We
are
going
to
be
able
to
take
about
an
eight
to
nine
minute
break
everybody
else.
So
if
you
need
to
turn
your
camera
or
microphone
off
for
a
minute
and
take
care
of
a
couple
pieces
of
business,
but
also
come
back
on
and
share
in
some
conversation,
so
the
break
won't
be
necessarily
dead.
Space
and
yep
dr
fox's
has
left
that
was
so
far
so
good
right.
C
Okay,
I'm
I'm
like
katie.
I
just
decided
a
certain
point
to
stop
taking
notes
and
realize
that
I
would
just
transcribe
there
would
just
be
a
transcription
and
we
would.
We
would
probably
go
back
over
some
of
this.
So
okay,
so
at
3
30
we're
hoping
we
get
joined
by
one
more
guest,
dr
kofi
boone,
from
north
carolina
state
university.
C
How
many
people
raise
your
hand?
How
many
people
need
to
take
a
break.
C
A
C
And
I
think
joanna
is
still
with
us.
I
think
she's
still
on
the
phone.
A
A
A
A
A
Well,
you
know
education
is
a
big
piece.
I
think
that
we
play
in
this
around
public
art
and
how
public
art
can
be
reimagined,
like,
I
think,
the
history
you
know
as
another
piece
that's
going
to
be
covered,
but
us
as
a
as
a
convention
have
a
real
role
and
speaking
to
what
public
art
is
and
also
listening
and
hearing
what
other
people
think
public
art
could
be
like.
We
don't
have
to
have
the
answer
either.
A
I
loved
dr
fox's
idea
about
this,
acting
as
a
like,
a
community
connector
hub
and
being
that
anchor
point
that
points
to
all
these
other
things
within
our
city.
I
think
that's
a
wonderful
idea
as
far
as
tourists,
but
also
just
for
people
in
our
community
and
school
groups
like
this,
could
be
like
field
trips,
education
like
with
the
urban
trail.
There
was
the
whole
educator's
guide
that
went
with
it
like
we
could
have
something
like
that
for
pet
plaza.
So
that's
some
of
the
initial
things
that
are
floating
in
my
head.
L
L
Reparations
and
racial,
equity
and
all
could
be
included,
and
since
there's
a
lot
of
emphasis
on
communities,
there
could
be
a
marker
or
some
kind
of
like
you
mentioned
about
the
restaurant,
a
place
if
they
see
something
in
that
area.
That
will
encourage
tourists
to
go
to
see
this
community
or
to
see
that
community
and
like
the
children's
circuit
or
music
or
they've,
heard
about
nasty
branches.
L
You
see
what
I'm
saying
instead
of
people
just
downtown,
they
can
cover
buncombe
county
area
and
they'll
get
a
chance
to
see
more
of
our
county,
the
city
and
the
county.
So
that
could
help
the
community
and
by
doing
that,
that
could
bring
the
people.
You
wouldn't
think
would
come
down
to
see
what
is
designed
that'll
motivate
them
to
come,
because
people
gonna
come
and
find
them.
So
they
don't
go,
see
what's
happening
and
bring
the
people
to
their
community.
That's
just
a
suggestion.
C
That's
what
we're
doing
here
all
right
are
we
all
back.
I
know
kofi
boone
just
joined
us,
I'm
just
looking
to
see
if
everybody's
back
here
marcia
might
be
a
little
late.
She
was
feeding
her
son
jazz
came
back
on.
She
had
more
internet
trouble,
marsha's
back
all
right,
reggie
here.
C
I
D
C
C
Okay,
thank
you.
It
was
wonderful
to
see
you
girlfriend,
wow
and
ellen.
I
think
you
just
joined
too.
I
think
I
saw
ellen
waiver,
so
so
kofi
I'm
going
to
let
you
introduce
yourself.
This
is
the
city
of
asheville's,
public
art
and
cultural
commission,
which
is
a
board
of
nine
members
who
were
either
artists.
C
Arts
advocates
arts,
educators
and
all
lovers
of
the
public
realm
and
making
the
public
realm
a
place
where
we
can
see
our
arts
and
culture
and
express
it
and
interpret
it
and
all
of
those
things
we've
heard
so
far
from
the
immediate
past,
chair
of
the
public
art
and
cultural
commission
who
happens
to
spend
a
lot
of
time,
thinking
about
memorials
and
monuments
and
what
the
purpose
of
that
is
from
a
philosophical
standpoint.
O
Sounds
like
my
work
is
done,
sounds
like
you
had
great
people
so
far
today,
so
that
that's
a
great
set
actually
you'll,
probably
see
an
image.
Another
image
of
eji
as
a
part
of
this,
so
there'll
be
a
little
little
echo
there,
but
I'll
I'll
just
introduce
myself
and
I'm
not
able
to
see
ellen
on
the
screen,
but
kofi
boone.
I
teach
landscape
architecture
at
north
carolina
state
university
in
raleigh.
O
Although
I
live
in
chapel
hill
now
ellen
deming,
my
distinguished
colleague,
is
also
in
our
faculty
and
also
the
director
of
the
doctor
design
program
and
both
of
us
are
completing
a
book
on
confederate
monuments.
O
Right
now,
that'll
be
on
lsu
press
talking
about
some
of
the
situations
that
we've
faced
over
history
featuring
many
designers,
specifically
black
designers
in
the
south
who've
attempted
to
develop
ways
of
coming
up
with
alternatives
of
what
you
do
with
those
sites
after
the
monuments
are
removed,
and
hopefully
the
last
part
is
lessons
learned
that
are
helpful
to
communities
still
grappling
with
that.
O
So
so
our
heads
have
been
in
this
monument
game
for
for
a
little
while,
and
I
hope
that
a
few
of
the
things
that
we
talk
about
are
helpful
in
the
time
that
we
have
I'm
going
to
try
and
keep
remarks
to
about
10
to
12
minutes,
which
would
allow
the
majority
of
the
half
hour
to
get
into
discussion
and
comment,
although
it
seems
like
you've,
already
had
some
really
good
discussions,
so
it
might
even
be
shorter
than
that.
L
O
And
I
hope
you
all
can
see
it
so
this
one's
about
narratives
and
public
memory,
which
you
all
don't
have
to
be
persuaded
about
clearly
because
of
your
your
purview
and
a
few
points
coming
into
it.
That
were
for
discussion,
which
I
think
you
know
even
just
hearing
the
talent
in
the
last
conversation
you've
already
been
talking
about.
You
know
what,
and
why
do
we
preserve
places?
O
What
qualifies
something
for
remembrance
you
know
and
what
other
symbols
and
stories
might
be
told
to
present
a
contextual
view
of
events.
So
these
are
you
know
the
issues.
O
And
hopefully,
will
spark
a
little
bit
of
conversation,
teach
landscape
architecture.
This
is
the
200th
birthday
of
frederick
olmsted
who,
among
other
things,
designed
the
grounds
of
the
biltmore
state
where
you
are
but
central
park
in
new
york
is
what
made
him
famous
that's
what
this
image
is
of,
and
so
this
idea
of
and
everything
that
you
see
was
designed
and
planned.
O
There
was
nothing
quote,
unquote
natural
there
at
central
park
that
he
built
upon
other
than
the
rocks,
but
there's
another
reading
of
that
history,
because
in
that
exact
same
spot
was
a
self-built
african-american
community
called
seneca
village
home
to
approximately
700,
to
900
free
african
americans
in
that
footprint,
which
were
erased
in
favor
of
the
park.
O
O
But
it's
a
pattern
of
you
know
when
we
intend
to
design
and
intend
to
build
for
good,
it's
not
on
a
blank
slate.
It's
a
place
that
has
history
and
has
connections
so
as
we
revisit
the
inciting
incidents,
particularly
in
the
last
five
years
that
hit
the
high
water
mark
tragically
in
charlottesville,
with
the
unite
the
right
rally.
O
Aren't
permanent
and
monuments
are
intentional
in
terms
of
telling
the
story
that
people
want
to
tell,
and
sometimes
they
don't
even
coincide
in
the
time
frame
of
the
inciting
incidents
and
events.
This
is
a
chart
that
tracks
a
lot
of
the
confederate,
symbology
and
monuments
across
the
united
states.
The
line
on
the
bottom
is
the
most
important
where
the
high
point
of
the
construction.
These
monuments
were
in
1910
and
1911
decades
after
the
end
of
the
civil
war.
O
Why
is
that?
Well
coincides
with
the
rise
of
african-american
empowerment,
economically
distant
franchise
may
do
the
jim
crow,
but
also
political,
enfranchisement,
and
so
there's
an
intentionality
with
the
rise
of
these
symbols
as
a
counter
symbol
to
suppress
those
protests.
So
I
haven't
done
the
deep
dive
at
the
asheville
monument,
but
we
have
some
in
our
own
backyard.
This
gives
you
sort
of
a
distribution
of
where
they
are
where
they're
concentrated,
where
the
darkest
colored
states
from
texas
up
to
virginia
is
the
highest
concentration
of
these
monuments
as
they
exist
today.
O
O
This
shows
immediately
after
the
murder
of
george
floyd,
that
these
became
the
symbols
that
people
gravitated
towards
as
symbols
of
systemic
repression,
sort
of
the
the
unmet
trauma
and
harm
done
as
a
part
of
the
legacy
of
our
country.
So
everything
from
projections
to
graffiti
to
physical
dismantling
of
these
miners.
These
became
targets
of
those
and
where
we
are
in
the
triangle,
you
know
we
saw
a
array
initially
of
ways
that
people
were
doing
it
and
durham.
Where
I
used
to
live,
they
just
ripped
it
down.
O
O
Today,
there's
no
confederate
monuments
in
raleigh;
they
were
removed
in
the
aftermath
of
protests
and
george
floyd
on
the
capitol
grounds,
under
a
clause
that
the
governor
discovered
in
terms
of
public
safety
that
people
were
physically
trying
to
dismantle
these
elements
and
so
tons
of
granite
and
hundreds
of
pounds
of
metal
could
have
come
crashing
down
on
people's
heads
overriding
a
state
legislature,
decision
that
made
altering
public
grounds
and
state
grounds
illegal
in
a
in
a
felony
in
response
to
bree
newsome's,
climbing
of
the
flagpole
in
charleston
years
before
and
on
the
image
on
the
right
in
chapel
hill.
O
At
this
time
at
least,
the
university
was
spending
almost
a
quarter
million
dollars
a
year
to
clean
graffiti
on
silent
sam
that
it
was
a
situation
where
that
was
you
know
under
some
duress.
So
what
this
brings
up
is
narratives
and
storytelling,
and
often
when
we
think
about
monuments
and
memorials
in
the
past.
It's
been
the
narrative
and
story
of
the
dominant
group
at
that
period
of
time,
and
so
these
provide
sort
of
an
understanding
of
history
on
understanding
who
we
are
from
a
specific
lens.
A
specific
point
of
view.
O
We
offer
another
way
of
looking
at
it,
which
are
counter
narratives
use,
the
narratives
of
everybody
else,
other
positions,
other
ideas,
and
so
there's
this
conflict
between
counter
and
master
narrative
master
is
not
my
word
choice.
I
wouldn't
use
that,
but
that's
that's
what's
in
the
literature,
but
these
ideas
of
resistance
is
ideas
of
stories
that
were
suppressed
due
to
the
master
narrative,
the
ability
for
people
to
kind
of
start
to
self-define
the
stories
that
they
want,
told
picking
on
more
of
a
neutral
site.
O
If
you
thought
of
the
washington
monument
as
the
master
narrative,
you
know:
borrowing
obelisks
from
ancient
egypt,
barring
egyptian
and
kinetic
symbology,
to
show
the
perpetuity
of
the
american
empire.
Everything
up
until
the
vietnam
war
memorial
in
washington
dc
was
was
pulling
off
these
classical
themes.
These
monumental
intentionally
white
objects.
It
was
maya
lin
who
offered
you
know
this
counter
narrative
tied
to
the
design
of
the
memorial
choosing
black
as
opposed
to
white
going
below
ground
instead
of
above
ground.
O
In
the
case
of
the
vietnam
war
memorial,
instead
of
listing
people
by
rank
and
hierarchy,
listen
them
in
chronological
order
from
when
they
died
serving
in
the
war.
So
you
can
see
in
many
different
ways.
A
lot
of
these
assumptions
from
the
master
narrative
were
inverted
flipped,
to
create
a
different
kind
of
relationship
to
that
history
and
a
sidebar
of
the
biggest
opponents
of
this
monument
were
via
united
states
vietnam,
war
veterans,
who
were
appeased
when
a
more
representational
sculpture
of
vietnam
war
veterans
was
placed
there.
O
But
if
you
go
there
today,
nobody
pays
attention
to
these
three
guys
they
go
to
the
black
wall.
So
in
the
end
that
emotional
content
of
that
previous
memorial
was
powerful
in
a
contemporary
sense.
In
dealing
directly
with
this,
we
look
at
a
lot
of
examples
around
the
country,
particularly
around
the
south,
because
everyone's
asking
this
question
now,
what
do
you
do
with
these?
O
This
legacy,
the
one
that's
probably
the
most
visible,
is
paper
monuments
which
comes
to
us
from
new
orleans
and
particularly
from
brian
lee,
in
a
firm
called
colocate
where
overnight
then
mayor,
landrieu
removed
all
of
the
confederate
monuments
in
north
and
new
orleans
in
24
hours
and
stored
them
away.
So
then
it
became
a
question.
What
do
you
do
with
all
these
sites?
O
So
brian
and
his
team
led
a
really
interesting
project
of
activating
those
spaces
right
to
talk
about
the
stories
that
were
suppressed
because
of
the
master
narrative
of
the
confederate
soldier
and
army.
So
what
you
see
in
front
of
them
are
posters
that
come
from
community
stories
and
community
narratives
about
other
things
that
happen
on
that
exact,
same
space
that
were
never
addressed
in
the
previous
monument
resulting
in
art
installations
that
were
informed
by
these
community
narratives
and
so
you'll
find
more
and
more
of
these
cropping
up
around
new
orleans.
O
You
all
have
already
talked
about
equal
justice,
initiative,
great
work
of
brian
stevenson
and
many
others.
You
know
we're
in
two
parts.
One
is
gathering
soil
from
the
places
where
black
people
were
lynched
across
the
south,
featuring
them
in
the
memorial
to
peace
and
justice
in
montgomery
alabama,
but
also
working
with
local
communities,
to
highlight
what
there
was
were
in
the
actual
places
where
those
took
place.
O
So
this
idea
that
the
monument
and
the
memorial
can
be
in
many
different
places
at
the
same
time
and
be
connected
to
people
and,
of
course
you
know
in
its
final
form,
you
know
in
the
actual
monument
itself.
Invoking
you
know,
through
form,
through
mass
design
group,
the
emotional
devastation
of
the
scale
of
lynching
that
we
face.
The
united
states.
O
And
other
ones
more
playful
narratives
right
that
deal
with
these
heavy
contextual
issues,
but
in
ways
that
also
provide
you
know
the
basic,
aesthetic
and
emotional
experience
that
people
are
looking
forward
more
uplifting
way,
this
coming
to
us
from
ola
leak
and
jaiphis.
This
is
in
alexandria.
This
is
a
memorial
to
enslaved
africans
in
alexandria,
who
are
active
in
the
labors
that
help
build
alexandria's
wealth,
particularly
knitting
and
working
in
the
industrial
waterfront,
so
through
sculpture.
O
That
interacts
with
time
of
day
that
changes
with
your
perspective,
which
overlaid
with
symbology
he's
nigerian
so
symbology
that
comes
from
african
art
traditions.
Juxtaposed
you
know,
against
this
sort
of
western
industrial
waterfront
starts
to
provoke
questions.
You
know,
provide
insights
and
questions,
and
many
that
are
on
the
way.
O
So
this
is
coming
to
us
from
the
studio
zoody
genesee
street
in
houston,
which
actually
references
the
loss
of
what
was
once
a
thriving
middle
class,
black
neighborhood
in
houston,
but
through
sculptural
objects
that
invoke
the
spirit
of
porches
of
residential
streets,
storefronts
comfort
that
glow
at
night
that
can
become
perches
for
community
conversations.
This
one
is
still
on
the
boards,
but
is
coming
soon
tom
lee
park
in
memphis
by
studio,
gain
and
skate
also
on
the
boards,
but
fascinating
story.
O
This
park,
where
used
to
be
the
place
where
they
interred
the
remains
of
nathan,
bedford,
forest
and
his
wife,
so
the
remains
really
buried
in
this
park
and
in
the
midst
of
the
aftermath
of
the
murder,
george
floyd
and
this
whole
action
about
removal
of
confederate
monuments.
O
The
upcoming
work
from
walter
hood,
the
north
carolina
native
berkeley,
practicing
landscape
architect,
international
african-american
museum
in
charleston,
south
carolina,
which
is
due
to
open
this
year,
invoked
one
of
the
last
places
where
african
americans,
black
people,
enslaved
african
people,
came
to
the
united
states,
and
you
can
see
from
the
split
screen
how
it
operates
with
high
and
low
tide,
which
tides
are
really
important.
In
charleston,
so
this
idea
that
memorial
doesn't
have
to
be
static.
It
can
actually
be
connected
to
the
life
processes
that
sustain
this.
O
So
you
can
see
on
the
ground
the
outlines
that
came
from
recalling
the
bodies
of
enslaved
african
people
coming
by
ship
disappearing
in
high
tide.
So
this
ability
for
the
place
itself
to
actually
transform
based
on
what's
happening
and
then
one
that's
coming
to
our
home
state.
O
So
the
north
carolina
freedom
park
designed
by
perkins
and
will,
which
is
going
to
be
directly
adjacent
to
state
archives
across
the
street.
The
state
legislature
has
finally
broken
ground
and
hit
their
capital
threshold
to
build
a
memorial
to
all
african-american
experiences
in
the
state
which
they
call
in
the
beacon
of
freedom.
O
Now,
in
their
mind,
the
initial
concept
really
focused
on
trials
and
tribulations
of
various
african-american
communities
across
the
state,
but
they
pivoted
now
to
deal
with
an
aspirational
and
hopeful
image
of
where
people
can
go,
not
without
controversy
making
that
decision.
But
it's
it's
a
very
different
way
of
approaching
my
imitation
and
memorials
to
bring
it
to
a
close
and
to
invite
discussion
and
questions.
There
are
some
current
efforts
that
are
related
to
what
we're
doing
now.
O
The
van
allen
institute
is
leading
beyond
granite,
right
now,
through
a
very
generous
grant
from
the
melon
foundation,
they're
going
to
be
working
over
multiple
years
of
creating
new
monuments
and
memorials
throughout
the
federal
area,
the
mall
in
washington
dc,
but
they
intend
to
use
it
as
sort
of
a
lab
to
test
new
techniques
for
new
ways
of
memorialization.
That
will
then
go
to
other
communities
that
are
grappling
with
similar
issues,
so
that
would
be
one
to
keep
track
of
and
keep
an
eye
on
as
it
moves
forward.
O
It
literally
just
started
and
the
national
monument
audit,
which
was
put
out
by
monument
lab
where
they
took
the
last
18
months
to
do
a
very
detailed
documentation
of
nationally.
You
know
what
is
the
composition
of
what
we've
immoralized
and
what
we've
generated
monuments
to?
What
are
those
trends
and
patterns
what's
missing,
and
how
do
we
move
forward
to
make
those
more
inclusive?
So
that's
another
one
sort
of
keep
under
your
hat
as
it
moves
forward.
O
With
that
happy
to
get
into
any
discussion
or
entertain
any
questions,
or
you
know.
C
I'll
kick
it
off,
and
just
you
mentioned
that
the
the
beacon
of
freedom
project
that
they
pivoted,
I
guess
what
you're
saying
is
they
pivoted
based
based
on
not
just
maybe
what
they
wanted
to
represent,
but
also
physical
form
yeah
is
that
is
that
the
case,
and
then
you
said
this
doesn't
come
without
controversy.
O
Come
without
controversy,
yes,
so
the
initial
concept
for
the
freedom
park
had
a
very
different
tone
like
it
was
designed
to
invoke
empathy
with
the
traumatic
experiences
that
black
people
have
faced
in
the
united
states,
and
it
was
done
in
a
way
built
upon
a
lot
of
community
engagement
where
people
were
delivering
these
sort
of
traumatic
stories.
C
Interesting,
and
so
can
you
tell
us
because
one
of
the
questions
this
group
has
been
having
is
like
who
decides
right?
Who
decides
and
earlier
one
of
the
things
that
this
group
was
told
was
like
you
know,
whatever
you
put
up
there,
you're
sanctioning
that
narrative
right
so
who
who,
in
the
case
of
that
project,
I
mean
really
who
who
decided.
O
Well,
they
they
decided
to
start
over.
So
I
think,
through
the
I
think,
north
carolina
department
of
history
and
particularly
the
north
carolina
african-american
heritage
commission.
I
think
they
decided
to
pivot
and
restart
the
conversation
around.
What
are
the
themes
and
narratives
that
people
resonated
with
that
could
also
get
financial
support,
and
this
was
coming
off
of
particularly
phil
freeland,
who,
since
passed
away,
that
was
the
last
design
project
that
he
was
engaged
with
before
he
passed
away.
O
He
was
coming
off
of
the
success
of
the
national
african-american
history
museum,
the
smithsonian,
the
blacksonian
which
he
designed,
so
that
is
sort
of
an
attitude
that
particular
phil
had
where
and
it's
it's.
O
This
is
where
it
gets
contested
is,
you
know
not
to
put
words
in
his
mouth,
but,
having
spent
some
time
with
him,
he
was
more
focused
on
how
do
we
leave
symbols
and
images
that
inspire
the
next
generation,
and
so
he
was
very
much
on
the
aspirational,
forward-looking
track,
not
dismissing
the
trauma
of
the
past,
but
elevating
symbols
of
excellence
and
lifting
them
up
moving
forward.
So
not
everyone
agrees
with
that,
but
I
would
say
the
smithsonian
kind
of
speaks
for
itself.
A
O
A
O
Yeah
I
mean
the
flip
side,
is
you
know
the
zji?
They
had
no
problem
raising
money
for
their
memorial
in
alabama.
That,
and
I
would
say
you
know
brian
stevenson
in
some
ways
leveraged
his
fame
from
his
incredible
book
and
his
incredible
legal
legacy,
trade
for
people
wanting
to
invest
in
in
that
social
enterprise.
You
know-
and
it
is
it's
an
incredible
thing,
so
I'm
not
placing
a
value
judgment,
I'm
just
trying
to
portray
an
array
of
different
different
elements.
C
A
question
for
ellen-
or
you,
as
you
know,
was
one
of
the
prompts
that
we
considered
for
everybody.
Was
you
know
for
this
group
and
they
have.
They
have
a
specific
charge
that
we
haven't
really
laid
out
for
you,
but
knowing
that
they're
going
to
be
involved
in
this
project
at
all,
do
you
think
there's
something
that's
really
important
that
they
should
be
asking
themselves
before
they
go
out
and
work
with
community.
O
Another
one
might
be
literacy
in
terms
of
what
monuments
memorials
with
the
range
of
things
that
are
out
there.
I
sat
in
on
that
first
meeting
with
van
allen
with
beyond
granite
and
they
spent
a
long
period
of
time
just
getting
people,
and
these
were
people
who
really
think
about
this
stuff,
aware
of
their
a
range
of
possibilities
that
are
out
there
in
terms
of
how
people
are
remembering
things
and
and
why
so.
O
J
Think
I
turned
my
my
microphone
on,
so
it
pulled
me
out
hi
steph
great,
to
see
you
and
kofi.
Thank
you
for
that.
I
I
would
add
I
I
agree
completely
with
everything
kofi
said
so
far,
and
I
would
add
to
think
about
your
time
frame.
One
of
the
things
that
I've
learned
from
working
on
this
project
with
kofi
is
that
monuments
don't
have
to
be
forever
and
sometimes,
if
you
think
about
monuments,
one
of
our
contributors
del
upton
who's
at
ucla.
J
Are
not
forever
and
if
you,
if
you
go
into
a
memorialization
project,
understanding
that
there
might
be
room
for
iterations
of
that
or
chapters
of
that
or
replacements
of
that
or
counter
memorials
to
that
it
takes
some
of
the
angst
out
of
it
and
it
allows
more
people
to
participate
without
feeling
like
it's.
This
is
it.
You
know,
I'm
gonna
go
to
the
mat
for
or
against
this
piece,
and
I
I
don't
think
we
think
about
that
enough.
J
We
we
we
forget
that
monuments
are
not
history,
they're,
just
expression
and
they're
bought
and
paid
for
by
by
people
with
positions,
so
I
would
say
to
think
about
going
into
a
project
how,
how
permanent
a
mark
do
you
imagine
you're
making
and
and
what
are
the
options
there.
E
I've
got
a
question,
so
we've
had
a
lot
of
discussion
around
community
engagement
and
that's
really
going
to
be
really
important
on
the
other
side
of
the
coin,
with
potential
sources
of
funding.
What
are
your
thoughts
on
the
best
way
to
be
able
to
work
on
timing
and
when
and
how
we
engage
with
potential
funding
sources
because
they
they
go
together?
If
we
don't
have
the
money,
we
can't
get
it
done,
but
we
don't
want
the
money
to
be
able
to
default,
determine
what
direction
that
we're
heading.
O
Yeah,
I
mean
it's
a
good
question.
I
mean
I
think
you
know
that
the
north
carolina
freedom
park
example
they've
been
talking
about
that
for
a
to
back
to
the
smithsonian
they've
been
talking
about
the
smithsonian
for
30
years,
so
you
know,
we
think
that
it
was
all
of
a
sudden.
They
dug
a
hole
created
this
incredible
building,
but
that
was
a
generational
kind
of
project.
O
O
With
the
beyond
granite
group,
I
think
they're
heavily
influenced
by
knight
foundation,
jvp
foundation,
particularly
reimagining,
the
civic
commons,
their
work,
which
is
trying
to
use
these
sites
to
plan
these
sites,
to
be
able
to
demonstrate
that
it's
dealing
with
broader
issues
of
justice
and
equity,
and
not
just
the
physical
object,
so
by
example
that
that
tom
lee
park
that
I
mentioned,
where
they
exhibit
the
remains
of
nathan,
bedford,
forest
and
now
they've
got
like
these
leading
designers.
O
In
there
kicking
butt
doing
the
thing
I
mean
they
just
wrote
a
check
for
150
million
dollars
to
do
it.
They
just
gave
him
money
right.
They
gave
van
allen
250
million
dollars
through
mellon
foundation
because
of
the
content
of
what
they
were
doing
and
because
it
was
built
in
this
iterative
way.
So
so
thought
is.
You
know
to
think
about
that
regarding
fundraising,
if
it's
you
know
the
typical
way
of
doing
it,
it's
just
a
different
approach,
but
there
are.
O
It
might
be
interesting
to
look
at
foundations
and
philanthropies
that
are
aligned
with
the
goals
you're
trying
to
achieve
and
see.
You
know
what
they're
talking
about
and
some
that
come
to
mind
are
melon
for
sure,
jpb
foundation,
knight
foundation,
they're
all
funding,
this
kind
of
work
all
over
the
country
right
now,.
O
Yeah
yeah
kresge
is
connected
in
some
way
to
to
jpp
united
through
the
reimagined
civic
commons
work
so
yeah.
Absolutely
yes,.
J
And
I,
I
would
add,
maybe
the
graham
foundation,
although
I
I
haven't
seen
how
active
they
are
in
anything
other
than
like
installations
and
publications.
But
but
who
knows,
they
might
just
be
waiting
for
an
opportunity.
O
Yeah
pattern
with
all
of
them
more
recently,
have
been
low-cost,
high-impact
things,
blackberry,
describing
the
beta
testing
stuff
out
before
you
commit
the
to
like
real
capital
intensive
stuff.
So
how
do
you
get
people
there?
How
do
you
get
people
in
the
activities
that
you're
imagining
people
would
engage
there?
How
do
you
start
to
build
a
little
catalytic
impact
right
so
that
people
benefit
from
activities
that
are
there?
O
You
know,
and
it
gives
you
a
chance
to
mess
up
and
not
you
know,
go
too
far
down
the
wrong
path,
so
they
all
seem
to
have
that
pattern.
I
mean
the
paper
monuments.
One
is
probably
the
clearest
one
where
you're
convening
people
you're
gathering
stories
and
narratives.
You
are
sharing
those
you're
using
those
as
inspiration
for
the
kinds
of
uses
that
happen
there
and
then
eventually
the
physical
form.
That
seems
to
be
the
pattern
with
a
lot
of
these.
So
maybe
that's
an
idea
as
as
you're
thinking
about
it.
O
C
O
Yeah
I
got
a
few
more
minutes.
If
there's
other
questions
or
discussion,
then
unfortunately
I
do
have
to
jump
off
in
about
two
minutes.
So.
C
C
It's
also
completely
disconnected
from
the
square
around
it.
In
order
to
actually
reach
that
site,
you
have
to
cross
one
or
two
streets,
depending
from
the
you
know,
looking
thinking
about
this
from
the
term
of
like
what
we
need
to
think
about
in
the
landscapes
in
the
center
of
our
communities
and
not
just
monuments
and
memorials.
C
O
M
M
J
The
fact
that
it's
cut
off
and
set
apart
might
be
conducive
to
a
monumental
lizing
strategy,
but
it
isn't
conducive
to
an
inclusive
strategy.
L
O
Yeah,
I
think
that
I
agree
with
that
100
I
got
three
thoughts.
One
is
building
off
of
when
I
stumbled
into
the
conversation.
I
was
overhearing
a
little
bit
what
ms
whitesides
had
to
say
regarding
how
that
site
could
catalyze
economic
development
connections
to
parts
of
town
that
aren't
downtown.
O
I
think
that's
a
really
interesting
idea,
and
maybe
that
has
to
do
with
the
programming
on.
What's
on
the
edges
of
this
thing
as
opposed
to
what's
in
it,
you
know
so
that
you
know
there
are
ways
of
thinking
about
local
people,
local
businesses,
people
are
underrepresented,
downtown
already.
You
know
when
you
invest
in
this
new
public
realm.
You
know
it's
going
to
have
an
impact
on
the
edges.
Anyway,
you
know
I
mean
it's
we're
kind
of
at
the
point
where
we
know
that's
going
to
kick
off.
O
You
know:
increase
property
values
and
higher
visibility
and
all
that
stuff.
So
maybe
people
who
have
not
had
a
chance
to
be
seen
and
heard
in
that
space
could
be
the
front
of
the
line
to
benefit
economically
from
whatever
happens
there.
So
it
was
one
thought
I
mean
another.
One
is
depressing,
but
has
a
sunny
side
is
kovitz
not
going
away
and
we're
gonna
need
public
spaces
that
people
can
move
out
to
extend
into
use
to
socially
distance
deal
with
the
public
realm
different
kind
of
ways.
O
Maybe
you
need
a
bigger
space
and
more
of
an
emphasis
on
people
instead
of
cars,
because
we're
going
to
need
to
shut
things
down
and
get
outside
from
now
on,
and
other
cities
are
already
doing
that
expanding
sidewalks
increasing
tree
cover
more
places
to
sit
allowing
for
people
to
not
have
to.
You
know,
stop
whatever
they're
doing
when
we
hit
a
pandemic,
but
it
just
moves
outside,
and
so
that
would
be
a
really
interesting
thing
to
consider.
O
You
know
last
one
is,
I
don't
know
how
many
of
you
been
to
new
york
city
in
times
square
since
they've
taken
cars
off
the
times
square,
so
that
was
proposed
and
led
by
janet
sadiq
khan.
Who
is
an
artist?
She
has
no
training
in
public
transportation,
but
she
was
the
head
of
new
york
city
department
of
transportation
and
mayor
bloomberg.
Did
that
on
purpose
right,
so
we
went
to
new
york
city.
I
took
a
class
here
in
2010
when
it
was
all
temporary.
O
It
was
all
just
like
plastic
chairs
and
home
depot
furniture
and
paint
right,
and
I
was
like
so
what'd
y'all
do
and
they
were
like
well,
we
went
everybody
went
to
sleep
one
night,
bye,
everybody's
asleep.
We
paint
a
bunch
of
polka
dots
on
the
street,
put
out
a
lot
of
plastic
furniture
and
planters
chained
off
the
street,
and
people
woke
up
the
next
morning.
They
were
like
well
what
happened
to
the
street,
and
but
this
is
really
sophisticated,
what
they
did.
O
They
had
gps
units
on
taxis.
The
biggest
lobby
group
that
was
fighting
against
them
were
taxi
drivers
like
you're
cutting
off
this
route,
for
us
to
be
able
to
make
money
and
that
kind
of
stuff,
but
they
could
track
them
and
say
well,
actually,
it's
only
added
30
seconds
on
average
to
each
one
of
your
trips
and
it
had
no
impact
and
all
adjacent
property
values
went
through
the
roof
at
way
more
pedestrian
traffic.
They
had
way
more
interest
in
rent
and
space.
They
had
way
more
visitation.
O
So
by
the
time
everybody
was
really
mad.
They're,
like
man,
we
gotta
get
these
polka
dots
out
of
here
they
came
with
all
this
data
and
that's
how
they
got
the
money.
O
I
think
too
much
of
what
we
do
is
tied
to
performance,
but
I
think
there
might
be
a
really
clever
way
of
starting
to
get
some
baseline
measures
of
who
the
heck
is
actually
using
the
space
right
now
right
and
for
what
who's.
Next
to
it,
you
know:
let's
try
something
out.
How
did
that
impact?
Who
is
using
it?
What
happened
to
the
properties
adjacent
to
it?
C
Yeah
and
for
the
commission
members
there's
a
book,
she
wrote,
I
think
it's
called
street
fight.
Some
of
you
may
have
taken
a
look
at
it,
but
pick
that
up
andrew.
F
Yeah,
I
just
want
to
thank
you,
kofi,
for
talking
about
the
nature
of
the
of
the
the
greater
area
and
it
being
and
how
we
have
an
opportunity
to
design
it
for
people
rather
than
cars.
F
I
it's
been
a
long
standing,
that's
been
a
long
standing
position
of
mine,
and
so
I
see
this
opportunity
is
something
that
can
satisfy
a
lot
of
other
community
needs
for
this
space
too.
The
narrative
is
obviously
powerful,
but
if
we're
not
addressing
the
the
the
built
context
of
the
entire
place,
we
need
to
ask
ourselves:
are
we
going
to
be
building?
F
Are
we
going
to
create
a
monument
that
is
meant
for
as
a
drive-by
attraction
or
a
walk-up
attraction,
and
so
I
I
really
I
would
hate
for
us
to
create
a
drive-by
attraction
or
a
story
that
requires
you
are
designed
for
people
to
be
viewed
from
cars.
I
think
that
this
is
a
a
wonderful
pedestrian
opportunity
to
interact
with
public
art
and
the
story
of
the
people
of
our
town.
So
I
really
appreciate
hearing
that
and
the
positive
examples
of
times
square.
J
I've
got
to
jump
also,
but
I
just
wanted
to.
I
wanted
to
say
thanks
for
inviting
us,
but
also
kofi,
that
was
a
hell
of
a
two-minute
answer.
O
I
C
You
guys
are
awesome,
we'll
keep
in
touch
with
you.
I
know
you're
really
busy
and
you're
working
on
this
book,
which
we're
going
to
be
extraordinarily
excited
to
see
whenever
it
happens,
I'm
sure
it
will
be
of
help
and.
J
You
know
it's
it's
funny,
because
sometimes
you
work
on
a
book
and
you
think,
oh
the
moment
has
passed
this.
This
book
will
be
irrelevant
by
the
time
it's
published
nope
this
this.
This
is
a
topic
with
legs
and
it
keeps
growing
and
it
keeps
moving
and-
and
it's
endlessly
fascinating,
good
luck
to
you
in
your
work.
It's
really
really
important
work
and
we
wish
you
the
very
best.
But
yes,
keep
us,
keep
us
in
the
loop.
O
C
All
right
so
to
clarify
that
I
think
carly
are
you
still
on
too
carly,
at
least
for
kofi?
I
know
carly
also
had
kofi
as
a
professor
at
nc
state
when
she
was
doing
landscape
architecture
and
then
li
also,
I'm
not
sure
if
she
had
alan,
but
they
are
incredible
people
all
of
the
people
that
we
talk
to
obviously
are
pretty
darn
incredible
and
there'll
be
more
to
come.
That's
not
to
say
that
this
is
just
kind
of
a
a
kickstart
for
for
what
we
need
to
do.
C
M
M
M
And
I'll
let
you
know
that
this
is
a
computer
transcription
of
a
call.
So
obviously
the
grammar
is
not
100.
C
Okay
might
be
cut
off,
but
it
says
hello.
This
is
david
johnson,
calling.
I
wanted
to
ask
a
question
with
a
larger
context
of
what
you're
looking
at
beyond
the
area
around
the
the
advanced
monument,
because
it
really
means
we
really
need
to
think
about
the
whole
area
as
an
entity
and
right
down
the
street
from
it
is
the
ymi
exactly
we
haven't
talked
about
that
yet,
which
has
potential
to
be
a
cultural
center,
an
attraction
from
an
an
add-on
to
the
pack
square
area.
Again
this
is
a
transcript
of
what
he
said.
C
So
it's
a
little
wonky
and
it
could
be
a
counterpart
to
the
thomasville
center
on
the
other
side
of
the
street.
So
I
and
then
it's
it's
cut
off
from
there,
but
sounds
like
something
that
connects
very
much
with
the
last
part
of
our
conversation.
C
And
while
we
didn't
talk
about
the
ymi
and
what
I
think
some
people
called
southpack
square
for
a
long
time
like
there's
a
south
pack
square
development
plan.
But
really
what
we're
talking
about
is
the
block.
C
I
want
you
all
to
know
that
in
our
pre-proposal
meeting
for
potential
submitters
yesterday,
we
did
talk
about
it.
We
outlined
to
them
that
as
part
of
this
initiative,
if
we're
really
thinking
about
connecting
the
dots
here
and
then
being
inclusive
and
equitable,
then
we
really
need
to
think
about
the
gateways
into
the
block
and
the
connectivity
from
this
area
into
eagle
and
market
streets.
C
The
ymi,
of
course,
is
doing
a
capital
campaign
to
do
a
major
renovation
and
they
are
quite
the
institution
in
our
downtown.
So
does
anyone
want
to
now
start
some
debriefing
or
some
point
some
thoughts
about
next
steps?
A
M
C
Bat,
as
we
could
be
okay,
hopefully
I'll,
just
say
that
the
pedestrian
counts
are
like
a
really
easy
thing
to
do,
and
there's
so
many
different
ways
to
do
them
now,
and
even
mounting
a
camera
and
just
being
able
to
track
people
as
dots
and
understanding
where
they're
going
is
something
that
would
be.
I
think
interesting,
because
we
always
talk
about
the
crowded
sidewalks
right,
andrew,
like
not
having
enough
space,
and
sometimes
it's
just
that
everyone's
using
only
one
sidewalk
go
andrew.
F
D
C
There's
always
an
opportunity
to
partner
with
some
other
organizations
on
finding
out
who's
actually
coming
to
the
area.
There's
I
I
actually
was
in
a
a
meeting
the
other
day
with
a
software
company.
This
is
a
little
weird,
I'm
not
advocating
for
this,
but
just
know
that
they
have
gps
data
and
about
in
a
large
variety
of
apps,
that
people
normally
download
on
on
their
phone
and
so
they're
able
to
use
they
say
anonymously
use
that
data
to
better
understand
like
where
people
are
coming
from.
C
So
are
you
getting
people
who
are
locals?
Are
you
getting
people
regionally?
Are
they
originating
from
schools?
Are
they
originating
from
hotels,
which
I
thought
was
pretty
fascinating,
so
visitation,
because
I
think
one
of
the
things
we
keep
hammering
home
is:
is
it
equitable
and
inclusive,
and
we
really
don't
have
we
have
a
lot
of
anecdotes?
We
don't
have
a
lot
of
other
data,
so
surveys.
C
They
do
have
some
other,
that's
not
the
same
software
I'm
talking
about,
but
they
do
use
other
sources
to
understand
trips
that
people
are
taking
in
different
places
and
they
also
can
tell
they
track.
They
do
a
lot
of
stuff
with
like
online
visitation
to
different
sites.
F
G
Yeah,
something
else
I
was
thinking
about
is
is
thinking
about
views.
We
were
talking
about
the
way
people
approach
and
what
they
see
when
they're
approaching
or
leaving.
So
I
think
that
could
be
important
data
to
gather
and
understand
as
we're
thinking
about
a
redesign
and
what
might
go
there
in
the
future
and
then
also
thinking
about
pedestrian
comfort.
I
think
doing
shadow
studies,
understanding
how
weather
is
changing
and
how
that's
affecting
the
comfort
of
the
plaza
could
be
really
important
information
to
understand
as
we're
embarking
on
this.
E
Yeah
steph
in
terms
of
a
debrief
three
things
stuck
out
at
me,
one
I
had
thought
about
ever
since
we
talked
about
doing
this
project,
and
I
thought
about
the
time
square
example
that
he
had.
We've
got
such
a
limited
small
space
that
the
way
to
make
the
biggest
impact,
since
we
can't
enlarge
it,
because
there's
businesses
and
buildings
all
around
it
is
to
really
look
at.
E
That's
number
one
number
two:
the
idea
that
we
have
to
watch
both
the
revenue
side
and
the
funders,
as
well
as
how
we're
developing
that
and
put
both
of
those
together
in
our
strategy,
because
we
could
have
the
best
idea
in
the
world
go
out
and
not
have
the
money.
We
could
have
money
and
not
have
our
ideas
yet,
and
I
just
take
away
from
that
that
those
are
really
interactive
pieces
and
looking.
I
was
encouraged
by
how
many
organizations
at
the
federal
level
that
we
could
tap
into
as
potential
sources
of
grants
too.
E
E
I
know
we
find
ourselves
doing
that
constantly
is
is
have
kind
of
a
an
attack
plan
as
to
what
are
the
sources
that
we
could
get
to
to
get
that
information
because
it
to
me
the
biggest
thing
is:
if
we
don't
do
that
diagnostic
part
right,
we
are
going
to
miss
the
vote
and
how
do
we
get
a
hold
of
that?
Because
that
turns
into
the
story,
once
we
kind
of
hear
what
the
the
pressures
and
opportunities
and
risks
are
there.
F
Yep
pete,
I
really
like
that
idea
of
engaging
with
the
youth
as
I
as
I
enter
middle
age,
I
think
more
and
more
that
the
work
I
do
is
to
be
enjoyed
by
other
people
primarily
and
the
people
with
the
longest.
The
people
that
will
have
the
longest
history
with
the
site
is
not
going
to
be
me.
It's
going
to
be
people
much
younger
than
me,
and
so
I
think
that's
a
really.
F
The
people
who
are
going
to
have
the
most
ownership,
as
defined
by
time,
is
going
to
be
the
youth
with
whatever
whatever
is
done.
So
I
I
really
like
that
idea,
and
I
also
note
that
timid
and
compromised
ideas
may
not
attract
funding
and
that
boldness
of
vision,
I
think,
will
boldness
and
clarity
of
vision
will
attract
funding
more
than
a
lukewarm,
laudician
approach.
F
So
I
those
are
sort
of
my
takeaways
from
the
other
experiences
that
we
heard
about
today.
I
A
So
I'll
just
say,
you
know,
p
is
right
on
the
money
as
far
as
funding
goes,
and
I
think
there's
an
opportunity
and
from
a
lot
of
foundations
for
a
large
amount
of
upfront
funding.
But
one
thing
that
we
also
have
to
keep
in
mind
is
long-term
funding
and
sustainability
of
this
project
moving
forward
and
get
those
guarantees
up
front
and
really
work
on
that,
because
what
we've
struggled
with
is
maintenance
of
our
public
art.
A
It's
not
funded
like
we
can
get
the
upfront
money,
but
then
to
take
care
of
the
pieces
and
keep
it
the
project
going.
That's
where
we're
running
into
a
lot
of
issues.
So
we
really
need
to
keep
that
front
of
mind
in
this
process
as
well.
A
B
I
think
it's
going
to
be
useful
and
this
is
just
kind
of
a
like
a
clarifying
question.
I
would
love
just
reiteration,
not
even
necessarily
now,
but
just
at
certain
points
in
this
process
of
like
the
the
scope
of
the
project.
Generally
carly
did
a
great
job
of
kind
of
laying
out
that
map
and
pointing
to
the
area
is.
Are
we
really
thinking
about
that
full
area?
It
sounds
like
we
are.
If
we're
talking
about.
Potentially,
you
know
pedestrian
only
what
happens
to
the
fountain?
B
C
C
C
Looking
at
the
fact
that
you
know,
people
have
to
cross
streets
to
get
here
that
all
those
things
that
we
need
to
think
about,
and
for
you
all
for
the
pack,
your
primary
focus
is
on
public
art,
memorials
and
monuments
in
the
area
there
will
be
a
larger
group
that
is
working
on.
You
know,
steering
this
entire
effort
that
will
include
a
look
at
public
space.
What
should
this
plaza
be?
C
We
have
a.
We
have
a
limited
budget
for
the
project
that
we're
looking
at
right
now
and,
and
frankly,
the
timeline
is
like:
oh,
what
can
we
get
done
in
the
next
six
to
nine
months?
After
listening
to
kofi
and
alan,
you
know
it
gives
some
pause
as
to
what
can
we
really
accomplish
in
the
69
months?
And
what
do
we
want
to
prioritize
right,
but
great
question
ali?
We
will
continue
to
reiterate
what
that
timeline.
C
You
know
looks
like
and
and
work
with
you
all
and
some
other
community
members
to
figure
out
like
what
is
the
actual
scope,
but
just
monuments,
public
art
memorials.
That's
the
main
focus
of
you.
All's
work
right
now,
there's
no
way
it
doesn't
bleed
into
all
the
other
public
space
issues,
but
you
know
andrew
who's
on
here.
It's
can
provide
great
connectivity
for
us
with,
like
you
know,
he
chairs
the
public
space
management
task
force
and
he's
not.
You
know
the
downtown
commission.
I
E
You
have
to
have
strategy,
but-
and
I
think
one
of
the
things
we're
going
to
have
to
think
about
is:
do
we
just
set
a
vision
or
do
we
have
a
crawl
walk
run
strategy
where
we
figure
out
what
we
can
do
relatively
quickly,
because
that,
when
I
listened
to
them,
how
long
it
took
to
get
those
funding
sources
in
line?
That
was
not
a
let's
get.
This
thing
done
in
six
month
period
of
time,
so
I
think
we're
gonna
have
to
be
flexible,
to
be
able
to
say
what
are
our
immediate.
C
Great
point:
I
should
just
to
kind
of
follow
that
up
I'll
say
that
this
process,
that
we're
talking
about
hiring
a
project
manager
and
taking
our
first
look
the
deliverable
that
they
would
be
providing
the
community
or
the
city
in
the
county
in
six
to
nine
months.
A
really
important
piece
of
it
is
a
set
of
recommendations
and
those
recommendations.
We
have
iterated
pretty
clearly
have
to
be
rooted
in
reality,
and
those
recommendations
are
probably
going
to
get
at
a
lot
of
the
things
that
you're
talking
about.
C
E
Yeah
because
I
think,
if,
if,
if
I'm
learning
what
I
heard
today-
and
I
think
andrew
put
it
really
well
about
the
fact-
the
youth
are
going
to
be
using
this
when
we're
all
out
of
here
same
thing
with
this
commission,
I'm
kind
of
woke
up
to
the
fact
that
there'll
be
two
or
three
sets
of
people
that
are
on
this
commission
they're
going
to
deal
with
this
going
forward
and
what
kind
of
path
do
we
cut?
C
A
C
That
could
be
the
case.
I
think
we
need
to
get
started
and
figure
out
what
that,
what
that
is
I'll
tell
you
that
these
conversations
have
made
me
feel
like
that
too.
But
I
am
thinking
about
how
the
rfp
that
we've
released
really
really
speaks
to
us
coming
up
with
a
few
concrete
things,
including
an
answer
to
the
question:
what
should
we
do
with
this
space,
and
maybe
the
answer
is
we
should
spend
more
time
thinking
about
this
space.
C
That
is
one
of
the
questions
that
we're
asking
people.
B
C
All
right
so
shirley
reggie,
jasmine
marsha,
had
to
leave
a
few
of
you
didn't
haven't
spoken
on
this
last
part,
and
I
want
to
make
sure
that
before
katie
closes
the
meeting
that,
if
you
have
any
parting
comments
or
thoughts
that
you
get,
you
get
a
chance.
I
I
don't
have
anything
specific
to
say,
but
what
did
really
resonate
with
me
was
having
public
art
that
focuses
like
on
multi-functional
use
and
something
people
can,
you
know
see,
is
aesthetically
pleasing,
but
also
something
people
can
walk
through
and
use,
as
I
don't
know
a
park
event
or
something
where
it's
not
they're,
not
designed
to
it's
not
designed.
So
that,
like
you,
necessarily
look
at
the
space
itself,
but
how
the
face
makes
you
look
at
the
world
around
you.
E
L
L
F
L
A
So
what
did
you
have
in
mind
for
agenda
setting
discussion
for
next
meeting.
C
I
think
you
know
if
people
don't
now
not
know
now,
maybe
what
I'd
be
asking
you
and
others
who
set
the
agenda
is
to
think
about
what
your
next
meeting
should
be.
Do
you
want
to
do
three
more
sessions
where
you're,
learning
and
you're
you're
doing
a
shared
learning
experience
again
and
we
bring
in
other
people,
and
we
have
more
discussions?
F
C
Are
those
things
I
will
bring
you
a
couple
questions
and
I'll?
Let
you
know
that
february
11th
is
the
date
where
the
submittals
for
the
project
manager
are
are
due
and
it
will
take
us
a
little
while
until
we
sift
through
those
and
negotiate
and
take
a
contract
through
with
city
council.
A
I
would
say
for
our
next
few
meetings.
It
would
be
really
helpful
to
have
more
of
these
educational
discussions,
at
least
for
part
of
our
meeting
and
really
working
to
encourage
community,
to
view
our
meetings
and
hear
what's
being
said,
and
so
we're
fulfilling
that
education
piece
through
our
meetings.
E
I
think
the
education
will
be
important.
I
think
the
other
thing
I'm
really
feeling
I'm.
This
is
by
far
the
best
meeting
that
I've
been
at
since
I've
been
on
the
on
on
pack
and-
and
I
think
it
gives
us
a
real
opportunity,
because
there
is
a
a
half-life
to
what
it
is,
that
we're
feeling
and
thinking
etc,
and
to
be
able
to
get
not
just
a
few
minutes
here,
a
debriefing
but
to
be
able
to
dedicate
some
time
not
just
to
learning.
F
I
was
looking
at
both
of
you
like
who's
gonna.
I
yeah
I
just
want
to
thank,
I
imagine
it's
used
for
bringing
bringing
in
such
great
guest
speakers
absolutely.
F
Really
great
and
you're.
H
F
Gabe
just
gave
me
lots
to
listen
and
think
about
you
know
it's
not
all
of
it.
I
even
feel
ready
to
respond
to
right
here.
You
know
I
kind
of
got
to
sit
with
it
for
some
of
it
for
a
minute.
I
also
want
to
connect
to
the
experience
of
of
living.
You
know
around
tryon,
as
the
nina
simone
sculpture
was
presented
to
the
community
and
even
someone
you
know
who
is
a
pop
star.
F
F
I
think
that's
a
a
great
sign
that
no
matter
what
is
offered
that
it
will
take
that
it
will
take
some
steel
on
the
part
of
the
community
to
get
to
the
finish
line
on
it
and
that
no
matter
what
is
offered
there
will
be
there
will
be
push
pushback
and
that
the
presence
of
that
is
not
the
presence
of
pushback
depending
on
what
type
may
even
be
the
sign
that
we're
on
the
right
track.
F
A
A
C
You're
welcome
and
kudos
also
goes
to
like
our
other
division
staff,
carly
stevenson,
david
hazard
and
dana
frankel,
for
supporting
this.