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From YouTube: Historic Resources Commission
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C
Okay
good
afternoon
I
am
chair
kite
and
I
would
like
to
welcome
you
to
the
february
9
2022
historic
resources.
Commission
meeting
the
hrc
is
a
quasi-judicial
body
that
is
governed
by
north
carolina
general
statutes,
the
city
of
asheville's,
unified
development,
ordinance
and
buncombe
county
ordinance.
We
are
authorized
to
hear
requests
for
certificates
of
appropriateness
for
alterations,
demolitions
and
new
construction
and
other
work
within
historic
districts
or
for
the
alteration
and
demolition
of
historic
landmarks
and
other
duties,
including
preliminary
review
of
subdivisions
as
specified
in
the
ordinances
for
the
hrc.
C
And
entering
code
9384
for
those
wishing
to
give
public
comment
during
an
agenda
item,
please
call
in
and
press
star
3
to
enter
the
caller
q.
I
will
now
ask
commission
members
to
introduce
themselves
and
to
say
a
sentence
or
two
about
their
background
or
experience
as
it
relates
to
serving
on
the
commission.
E
Hey,
I
have
a
background:
archaeology
and
national
historic
preservation,
act,
review
and
renovation
of
historic
homes.
F
H
Good
afternoon
my
name
is
james
vaughn.
I
have
a
master's
in
public
administration
and
I
also
have
worked
on
a
number
of
historic
projects
getting
them
on
the
national
register
of
historic
places.
C
C
C
Okay.
Moving
on
to
our
evidentiary
hearings
for
the
items
that
are
listed
on
our
agenda
as
a
quasi-judicial
proceeding,
the
hrc
is
not
setting
policy,
nor
are
we
soliciting
public
opinion
on
the
desirability
of
an
application.
C
The
hrc
hears
and
considers
evidence
presented
and
applies
the
standards
set
forth
in
the
guidelines
and
standards
of
the
specific
historic
district
for
that
application.
The
hrc
must
make
its
decision
upon
competent
material
and
substantial
evidence
to
determine
the
facts
of
the
hearing.
The
hrc
will
use
judgment
and
discretion
to
apply
the
standards
contained
in
the
relevant
guidelines
to
the
facts.
The
commissioners
and
voting
for
an
item
will
not
have
a
fixed
opinion.
That's
not
success.
Not
susceptible
to
change
will
not
have
a
conflict
of
interest
and
will
not
have
engaged
in
ex
parte
communication.
C
A
They're
here
and
also
mike
tamayo,.
B
G
H
C
G
C
Trey
greer
are
you
here.
I
think
I
saw
you
earlier.
I
G
C
Okay,
is
there
anybody
else
that
we
need
to
swear
in
while
we're
at
it?
That
should
be
everyone.
Okay,
then
I
will
have
you
all,
raise
your
right
hands
and
I'm
gonna
read
the
oath
and
then
I'll
call
you
each
individually
by
name
to
a
firm
for
the
group.
So
please
raise
your
right
hand.
C
J
C
G
K
I
C
Is
shannon
shannon
you're
here
too
too
yeah?
I.
G
C
All
right
we're
gonna
move
to
our
first
public
hearing
item,
which
is
old
business
in
at
43
elizabeth
place
and
we'll
start
with
alex
with
your
report.
A
All
right,
thank
you,
chair
kai
and
members
of
the
commission.
You
might
recall
we
have
looked
at
this
application
a
couple
of
times
now,
the
last
time
it
was
before
you
was
back
in
december,
so
just
to
kind
of
give
a
little
refresher
here
where
it's
about
midway
down
the
block
on
elizabeth
place,
this
little
vacant
lot
and
I
included
her
by
side
plan
and
I'm
just
going
to
go
through
this
really
quickly,
because
most
of
my
comments
are
still
similar
to
what
was
there
before.
A
So
this
is
these.
Are
the
revised
front
and
rear
elevations
you'll
know
on
my
staff
report
that
the
I
don't
know
if
you
would
recall,
but
the
windows
here
that
were
in
the
gable
and
before
were
more
like
they
were
coming
down
into
the
little
to
the
edge
of
that
of
that
gable
end
into
the
little
flare
at
the
bottom
of
it.
I
still
don't
think
that
I
don't.
I
can't
recall,
seeing
any
windows
like
this
in
a
gable
end
before
so.
A
I've
just
noted
that
as
something
that
for
discussion,
I
also
still
disagree
that
it's
appropriate
to
have
two
different
roofing
materials.
I
know
we
talked
about
it
on
the
front
in
the
rear
last
time
and
I
think
the
rear
you
all
have
made
a
pretty
good
case
for
why
the
rear
elevation,
the
little
porch
on
the
back,
the
roof
pitch,
wouldn't
work
to
be
asphalt.
A
Shingle
matching
the
rest
of
the
house,
but
they're
also
still
showing
metal
roofing
on
the
shed
roof
on
the
front
of
the
house,
and
so
that
is
something
I've
noted
as
a
concern
that,
at
the
very
least,
that
the
that
the
roofing
on
the
front
porch
overhang
should
be
should
be
asphalt
shingle
to
match
the
rest.
A
One
minor
detail
is
that
the
siding
material
that
was
included
in
the
material
specs
is
textured,
as
for
the
lap
siding,
and
the
commission
hasn't
allowed
that
in
the
past,
I've
always
required
it
to
be
wood
since
really
textured,
textured
fiber
cement.
Siding
does
not
really
look
like
wood
exciting.
So
the
other
thing
I
wanted
to
know,
we
don't
typically
get
too
far
down
in
the
weeds
on
color
scheme.
A
But
if
you
look
at
the
kind
of
architectural
descriptions
of
the
styles
that
are
found
in
montford,
most
of
them
have
like
a
have:
a
have
a
contrasting
color,
be
it
you
know
it's
it's
somewhere
lighter
than
than
what's
shown.
This
is
all
fairly
dark
and
there's
not
really
a
contrasting
color.
So
just
something
to
note
that
that's
not
really
typical
of
the
historic
styles
and
kind
of
how
they
were
traditionally
painted
throughout
the
neighborhood.
A
The
only
other
thing
I've
really
noted
and
just
to
go
through
to
the
other
elevations
they
did
change
the
the
basement
windows
on
the
right-hand
side,
where
they
were
just
where
they
were
showing
just
window
openings
before
into
that
garage
space
will
now
be
we'll
now
be
windows
instead.
A
The
only
other
thing
I
noted
on
there
was
that
we're
still
missing.
I
asked
for
a
revised
streetscape
rendering,
so
in
particular,
so
we
could
see
the
revised
color
scheme
and
then
also
we
still
need
the
manufacturer's
specifications
for
the
mechanical
units,
which
I
understand.
That
may
not
be
practical
for
the
applicant
at
this
time,
since
they
haven't
obviously
started
construction.
They
may
not
know.
A
Down
the
road,
so
my
suggestion
would
be
that's
just
applied
for
via
minor
work
at
a
later
date.
When
they
have
that
information.
I
did
ask
for
a
revised
landscaping
plan
that
identified
the
plant
and
tree
species.
I
did
get
that
from
the
architect
on
monday,
which
I
added
to
the
folder,
so
I'm
fine
with
that
we're
all
set
on
that.
But
the
one
thing
I
did
know-
and
it's
kind
of
hard
to
tell
in
my
presentation
but
in
measuring
these
front
walkways
they're
pretty
wide
they're.
A
I
think
they
maybe
stop
and
correct
me,
but
measuring
on
the
software
that
that
we
use
that
they
came
out
to
be
four
and
a
half
feet
wide,
which
is
pretty
wide
for
such
a
small
small
space
to
have
kind
of
a
driveway
walkway
walkway.
You
know
kind
of
taking
up
half
of
the
front
yard,
so
my
suggestion
would
just
be
just
to
do
the
one
from
the
street
and
then
maybe
just
do
a
more
informal
path
like
the
one
that's
leading
to
the
trash
enclosure
coming
off
the
driveway
as
one
solution.
B
A
At
the
site
plan
so-
and
I
think
those
are
all
my
notes-
so
if
I
can
go
back
over
anything
or
if
you
have
questions
happy
to
do
so,.
C
Alex
one
clarification,
I
think
I
heard
you
correctly,
the
you
are
suggesting
that
the
the
siding
needs
to
be
smooth
textured,
not
the
wood
grain
texture,
correct.
A
L
With
reference
to
the
siding,
I
don't
think
we
have
a
problem
with
that.
I
spoke
with
the
brands
this
morning
and
but
I
I
really
looked
hard
for
that,
because
I
remember
it
being
mentioned
before,
and
I
looked
hard
for
it
in
the
guidelines
and
was
unable
to
find
it
so
anyway.
That's
why
I
don't
think
it's
a
problem,
but
I
just
could
not
find
it.
When
I
was
presenting
the
material
choices.
There
was
some
some
paint
options.
L
We
were
looking
at
at
the
time
that
would
have
required
a
textured
lap
siding
from
allura,
but
we,
I
think,
we're
getting
away
from
that
anyway.
At
this
point,
as
far
as
the
the
method
of
application,
the
only
other
thing
I
wanted
to
address
and
I
might
have
missed
a
label
on
our
roofing
materials
on
my
exterior
elevations,
we
are
planning
to
use
all
shingle
siding
at
this
point,
the
front
shed
on
the
over
the
door,
the
rear
roof.
L
All
of
those
at
this
point
are
intended
to
be
shingle
siding
to
match
the
main
body
of
the
house.
C
Commissioners,
any
other
questions
for
alex
or
scott
is
there
anything
else
you'd
like
for
us
to
to
consider
and
follow
up
to
alex's
report.
A
I
just
want
to
clarify
on
the
note
about
the
design
standards
that
you
know
there's
a
couple
of
things
that
the
design
standards
they
don't
call
out
specific
materials
necessarily
unless
we're
talking
more
so
about
historic
structures.
But
in
you
know,
in
the
kind
of
past
10
15
years
as
we've
kind
of
gotten
into
some
more
contemporary
materials.
A
The
commission
has
considered
those
on
a
case-by-case
basis
and
has
not
yet
has
never
allowed
anyone
to
use
textured
siding
on
new
construction,
because
it
tends
to
look
like
faux
wood
versus
actual
wood,
which
is
more
smooth
in
texture,
so
that's
kind
of
where
that
comes
from
and
it's
the
same
thing
with
aluminum
cloud
windows.
The
guidelines
don't
specify
that
you,
you
know
you
have
to
use
aluminum
cloud
windows
on
new
construction
projects
and
that
you
can
do
vinyl.
But
that
is
kind
of
just
the
way
that
the
commission
has
decided
in
the
past.
L
A
Sense,
yeah,
it's
really
sort
of
more
so
kind
of
assessing
over
time
what
materials
most
closely
mimic
historic
materials
in
new
construction
and
again
it's
sort
of
not
specifying
them.
I
think
kind
of
leaves
the
door
open
for
future
materials
to
come
forward.
You
know,
if
there's
any
updated,
you
know
newer
materials
that
might
also
work.
It
leaves
the
door
open
for
that
so
yeah
just
to
clarify.
F
Alex
the
question
I
have
for
you
is
the
paint
colors.
Is
that
so.
J
F
Lasting
issues
from
staff
are
the
paint
colors
and
the
windows
in
the
on
the
front
elevation.
Is
there.
A
K
A
But
I
could
be.
I
don't
know
every
house
in
montford
there
could
be
one
that
has
a
color
scheme,
that's
similar
to
this
or
a
house
that
has
transoms
in
the
gable
end
like
this
one,
so
they're
just
kind
of
more
at
this
point,
neutralish
points
things
to
point
out
to
you
all.
C
C
Things
I
think
we
should
we
need
to
talk
about,
which
is
good
and
I
guess
color
wise.
I
certainly
think
there's
plenty
of
precedent
for
a
stronger
contrast
between
trim,
colors
and
and
field
colors
on
siding
than
than
what's
being
proposed.
Is
we
certainly
don't
get
into
specifics,
like
some
other
boards
might,
in
terms
of
you
know
a
list
of
colors
that
you
can
choose
from
to
get
that
specific?
C
But
I
do
tend
to
agree,
I
think
a
little
bit
alex
with
you
and
that
you
know
the
more
traditional
approach
to
color
on
the
exterior
of
houses
in
montford
is
for
there
to
be
more
contrast
between
trim,
colors
and
and
the
siding,
color
and
even
sort
of
the
upstairs
versus
downstairs
when
you
have
those
kind
of
the
architectural
styles
that
have
a
strong
line
kind
of
between
the
two
stories
of
the
house.
C
But
so
I
don't
know
where
the
applicant
maybe
falls
on
the
on
that
in
terms
of
preference
for
color
and
they're
sort
of
thinking.
At
this
point
about
color
and
reasons
for
choosing
what
they've
chosen.
L
One
thing:
I'm
I'm
sorry,
I'm
recovering
from
covet
and
my
brain
is
not
working
very
well,
but
with
regard
to
color,
I
really
hate
presenting
colors
at
this
stage,
because
we're
really
talking
about
these
very
small
color
chips.
People
are
trying
we're
trying
to
select
colors
off
of
the
computer
screen
or
relay
colors
on
the
computer
screen
and.
L
J
Yeah,
I
think
you.
K
J
We've
been
to
the
paint
store,
seven
or
eight
times,
and
we
have
ordered
big
foot
by
foot,
paint
samples
and-
and
we
are,
we
still
sit
around
at
night
wondering
what
color
the
house
will
be.
But
I
think
this
is
sort
of
the
basic
color,
but
I
agree
that
I
think
we've
already
started
thinking
about
this
idea
of
the
gable
being
lighter
and
maybe
even
the
lower
level
being
a
little
lighter
and
I'm
not
quite
sure
about
the
trim,
how
that'll
all
work.
J
Could
I
just
say
that
I
think
alex
I
sort
of
I
like
your
idea
about
the
the
front
porch,
the
heartscape,
we're
big
fans
of
flagstone
and
that
sort
of
thing-
and
I
think,
a
little
more
as
informal
flagstone
kind
of
approach
integrated
into
the
cement
coming
from
the
driveway
might
be
a
good
idea.
We'll
talk
about
that
with
our
architect.
Of
course,
I
know
you
know,
but
I
think
I
I
like
that.
I
mean.
H
G
H
A
The
reason
why
that
might
differ
a
little
bit
then
applying
for
minor
work
for
the
mechanical
units
is
a
lot
of
times
in
construction
projects.
It's
like
way
past
the
stage
where
you
pick
a
paint
color
that
you
know
what
kind
of
mechanical
unit
you
need,
so
don't
want
to
hold
up
the
you
know
the
the
process
of
getting
them
moving
on
their
project
as
far
as
construction
goes.
A
L
Can
I
suggest,
when
we
do
get
our
on-site
color
boards
up
that
we
at
that
point
I'll
contact
you
alex
and
figure
out
the
best
way
to
get
that
back
in
front
of
the
board,
whether
it's
through
photographs
or
even
a
some?
I
don't
know
whatever
method
seems
to
work,
but
some
and
yes,
the
intention
is
long
before
we
actually
need
to
know
the
colors
and
the
painter
and
the
contractor
wants
to
paint
the
house.
L
We've
been
working
on
this
color
samples
on
site
so
that
we
can
then
get
approval
for
you
from
you
all
in
plenty
of
time.
So
anyway,
that
was
that's.
That's
the
that's
what
I
would
prefer
to
move
forward
with,
if
possible,.
D
Yes,
I
would
comment
that
I
do
agree
with
alex
about
the
windows
in
the
front
gable.
I
I
still
find
that
looking
a
bit
odd
in
comparison
to
to
what
would
normally
be
seen
in
the
neighborhood,
I
think
I
would
feel
better
about
a
single
window
in
the
gable
like
on
the
side
of
the
house.
F
I'm
going
to
echo
that
on
page
93
of
new
construction,
primary
item,
9
locate
and
size
window
and
door
opening
so
they're
compatible
in
placement,
orientation
proportion,
size
and
scale
with
surrounding
historic
buildings.
Just.
F
And
I
think.
F
And
that's
that
that's
where
I'm
seeing
the
standards
pushing
back
on
what's
in
on
slide
three,
if
you
could
click
there
alex
that's
the
only
one.
J
J
And
then
but
centered.
A
I
think
if
I
had
to
offer
why,
I
think
that's
maybe
more
successful
design
is
typically,
you
would
have
in
a
historic
house
a
event
in
the
gable
end
on
the
second
story,
and
so
that
really
just
appears
to
look
more
like
a
vent
versus
a
window
calling
itself
calling.
J
A
J
C
And
that
would
technically,
I
think,
be
an
amendment
to
your
application
to
change
that
correct,
alex
yes,
yeah.
A
And
I
think
just
I'll
add
this
to
the
motion
template,
but
the
only
other
thing
I
think
we're
missing-
and
I
forgot
to
put
this
in
my
stuff
report-
is-
are
the
door
specifications?
C
So
the
conditions
would
be
door,
specs
paint,
colors,
color
palette.
C
L
C
D
Would
be
comfortable
with
moving
forward
with
the
motion
with
these,
with
these
alterations.
D
Okay,
madam
chair,
based
upon
the
evidence
presented
to
this
commission,
including
exhibit
a
application
and
project
description.
Three
pages
exhibit
b
new
construction
worksheet
five
pages,
exhibit
c
streetscape,
rendering
and
photos
three
pages:
exhibit
d
site
plans,
floor
plans
and
elevation
drawings.
Five
pages
exhibit
e
revised
site
plans.
Two
pages
received
october
19
2021,
exhibit
f,
revised
new
construction,
worksheet
and
plans.
Nine
pages
received
november
17
2021
exhibit
g
broadway
development,
approved
landscape
plan,
exhibit
h,
revised
application
and
new
construction
worksheet
seven
pages
received
january
19
2022
exhibit
I
revised
plans
and
drawings.
D
D
Nope,
okay
and
the
commissioners,
the
commission's
actual
inspection
and
review
of
subject
property
by
all
members,
except
I
move
that
this
commission
approve
the
certificate
of
appropriateness
based
on
the
following
one,
that
the
application
is
to
remove
existing
fence
along
front
property.
Boundary
construct
a
two
story:
three
thousand
one
hundred
and
nine
square
foot
primary
structure
with
pebble
dash
foundations,
smooth
allura,
fiber
cement,
siding
with
6.25
inch
reveal
cedar,
shingle,
siding
and
certainty.
The
landmark
asphalt,
shingle
roof
in
pewter
color
interior
chimney
will
be
faced
with.
D
Stucco
windows
will
be
2
over
two
sdl
double
hung
and
two
and
three
light.
Casement
aluminum,
clad
in
black
color
doors,
will
be
tbd
to
be
submitted
to
staff
for
review
front
entry
will
have
side
lights
and
transom
and
will
be
set
within
a
covered
porch
with
wood
railing,
with
two
inch
by
two
inch:
pickets,
spaced,
four
inches
on
center
tongue
and
groove
flooring,
steps
tongue
and
groove
flooring,
steps
and
six
inch
by
six
inch
wrapped
posts.
D
An
eight
foot
by
twenty
eight
foot,
deck
with
wood
railings
and
two
inch
by
two
inch
pickets
placed
four
inches
on
center,
will
be
constructed
on.
First
story
of
rear
elevation
connecting
to
a
12
foot
by
12
foot
screened
in
porch,
a
12
foot
by
nine
foot
covered
porch
with
wood,
railings
matching
deck
will
be
constructed
of
sec,
constructed
on
second
story
on
real
rear
elevation.
D
Remove
one
20
inch
double
hung
poplar
tree
and
existing
fence
to
accommodate
construction
construction,
a
construct,
a
double
track,
concrete
driveway
from
street
along
north
elevation
to
concrete
parking
area
and
rear
yard
construct.
Four
and
a
half
foot
wide
concrete
walkways
in
front
yard.
Actually,
is
that
one
changing
now
to
flagstone
walkway.
A
D
Construct
four
and
a
half,
it
will
probably
not
be
that
width
anymore,
construct,
flagstone
casual
walkway
in
front
yard,
connecting
from
driveway
and
street
to
front
entry
and
a
flagstone
walkway
connecting
to
a
six
foot
by
three
foot
painted
wood,
trash
enclosure,
adjacent
to
southwestern,
building,
corner
install
two
mechanical
units
adjacent
to
south
elevation
foundation.
Plantings
will
be
installed.
D
Ground
cover
must
be
established
within
15
days
of
completion
of
construction,
and
the
remainder
of
the
landscaping
must
be
installed
within
three
years.
If
archaeological
resources
are
discovered
during
site,
work,
work
will
cease.
Until
city
staff
have
been
notified
have
inspected
the
site,
all
work
will
be
in
accordance
with
attached
drawings
and
plans.
All
permits,
variances
and
approvals,
as
required
by
law,
must
be
obtained
before
work
may
commence.
D
Two
that
the
standards
for
new
construction
primary
structures
found
on
pages
92-93
walkways
driveways
and
off-street
parking
on
pages,
50-51,
landscaping
and
trees
on
pages
40-41
fences
and
walls
on
pages,
36-37,
decks
on
pages,
38-39
utilities
and
mechanical
systems
on
pages
82-83
lighting
on
pages
42
and
43
in
archaeology.
On
pages
32-33
in
the
montford
historic
district
design,
review
standards
adopted
on
april
14th,
2010
and
main
to
december,
9th
2019
were
used
to
evaluate
this
request.
D
This
application
does
meet
the
design
standards
for
the
following
reasons.
A
new
primary
structure
is
cited,
so
that
is
similar
to
the
historic
pattern
in
terms
of
orientation
setback,
retention
of
green
space
and
spacing
between
structures
b.
New
primary
structure
is
designed
so
that
the
overall
character
of
the
adjacent,
streetscape
and
building
site
is
maintained.
D
C,
new
primary
structure
is
compatible
in
height,
roof
form,
scale,
massing
footprint,
material,
detail,
fenestration
and
proportion
with
surrounding
historic
buildings
and
other
historic
buildings
in
the
district
d,
location
and
size
of
window
and
door.
Openings
are
compatible
in
placement
orientation.
Spacing
proportion,
size
and
scale
with
surrounding
historic
buildings.
E
materials
and
finishes
are
typical
of
those
found
in
the
district.
D
F,
new
walkway
and
paved
area
will
be
compatible
with
the
site
and
district
in
terms
of
dimension
configuration
materials,
color
and
texture
g
mechanical
units
will
be
located
adjacent
to
the
side
elevation
and
will
be
screened
for
that.
The
action
and
improvements
proposed
in
the
application
before
us
for
a
certificate
of
appropriateness
are
congruence
with
the
special
historic
character
of
the
montford
historic
district.
B
B
D
E
H
A
A
All
right,
thank
you,
chair
kite,
so
this
application
is
predominantly
for
modified
modification
to
some
of
the
fenestration
on
the
house,
so
just
to
give
a
little
context,
here's
a
photo
of
the
front
elevation.
A
But
please
let
me
know
you
know
what
I
can
pull
up
to
to
show
you
guys
as
we
go
through,
but
so
I'm
just
going
to
go
around
the
elevations
to
point
out
the
fenestration
that's
proposed
to
be
modified,
so
you're,
looking
at
on
the
left
is
existing,
and
so
all
the
window,
openings
highlighted
in
red
are
the
openings
that
are
proposed
to
be
modified,
with
the
exception
of
the
little
shuttered
area
down
on
the
right
hand,
side
and
I'll,
let
tray
when,
when
the
mic
gets
passed
to
him,
explain
if
that's
an
opening
or
not.
A
When
I
couldn't
tell
when
I
was
in
the
field,
it's
sort
of
like
shutters
covering
nothing,
but
I
imagine
maybe
there
was
a
window
opening
there
at
some
point.
So
hopefully,
if
you
had
time
to
digest
this
before
the
meeting,
because
it
took
me
a
little
bit
of
comparing
the
two
to
go
back
and
forth
to
see
you
know,
some
of
the
changes
are
a
little
bit
more
noticeable
than
others.
But
there
are
quite
a
number
of
proposed
changes
to
the
existing
window
openings.
A
So
I
also
included
a
photograph
of
each
of
the
elevations.
So
this
is
that
south
elevation
of
the
house-
this
is
a
little
shuttered
area.
I
was
describing.
A
There
will
be
essentially
these
three
existing
openings
would
be
modified
and
then
there
would
also
be
a
new
window
here
in
the
middle.
A
A
D
A
Be
wood:
it
would
be
consistent
with
the
like
the
character
of
the
existing
windows,
so
the
rear
of
the
house
kind
of
has
been
messed
with
a
fair
amount.
I
meant
to
include
it
in
my
slideshow,
but
I
can
pull
it
up.
So
there
are
some
changes
to
the
fenestration
here
on
the
rear
elevation,
in
addition
to
removing
the
two
little
porch
overhangs,
to
kind
of
then
construct
this
continuous
shed
roof
over
the
new
doorways
and
windows
on
the
back
that
would
connect
into
the
hip
roof
on
either
end.
A
A
Yeah
here
we
go
so
you
can
see
that
little
dash
line
on
the
back
of
the
house
indicates
that
there
was
a
porch
of
some
kind
there
and
it
also.
If
you
look
at
the
photo
of
the
photos
of
the
rear
elevation,
you
can
see
that
it
has
exposed.
Rafter
tails
like
the
rest
of
the
roof
does
and
it
mimics
the
hip
roof
form
as
the
same
as
the
roof.
A
Above
so
I've
noted
that
the
other
part
of
this
part
of
the
scope
of
work
would
be
to
remove
this
kind
of
there's
a
non-original
deck
and
handicap
ramp
on
the
back
here.
That
would
go
away
and
then
essentially,
the
new
deck
would
be
in
the
same
same
footprint,
but
would
just
have
steps
coming
down
on
onto
the
ground
would
not
require
a
railing
since
the
the
deck
wouldn't
be
tall
enough
to
to
require
that
that
building
code?
A
A
I
haven't
seen
a
project
come
through
that
had
this
many
finished,
this
many
window
openings
proposed
for
change
and
obviously
windows
are
character
defining
by
themselves,
but
then
the
way
that
they
present
as
a
whole
are
characters
character,
defining
to
a
structure.
So
I
do
have
some
concerns
about
the
proposed
changes.
I
did
go
through
and
pull
out
the
from
the
floor
plans
where
the
proposed
changes
are
versus
what
is
being
proposed
and
my
thought
just
basic
based
on
analyzing.
A
This
is
that
there
may
be
some
room
to
go
back
to
the
drawing
board
and
reconsider,
for
example,
looking
at
the
south
elevation
here.
That
is
the
foyer.
It
will
remain
the
foyer,
but
the
windows
get
skinnier
and
it
kind
of
moves
over
to
this
one
side.
A
K
A
Hung
window
because
of
the
counter
height,
that's
been
a
common
request,
which
is
included
here,
obviously
you'll
see
where
they
are
proposing
to
remove
this.
This
set
of
double
on
windows
on
the
left,
rear
elevation
to
accommodate
counter
top
here
and
arrange,
but
again
to
my
in
in
my
analysis
of
this
there's
room
to
go
back
to
the
drawing
word
from
a
design
standpoint
and
reconsider
how
how
the
interior
layout
can
more
closely
align
with
how
the
existing
fenestration
is
already.
I
don't
think
that
one
gets
to
dictate.
A
I
don't
think
that
the
interior
layout
gets
to
dictate
entirely
a
new
interior.
I
guess
layout
gets
to
dictate
entirely
how
the
rear
is
affected
if
we're
considering
fenestration
on
almost
every
elevation
of
the
historic
structure.
In
my
opinion,
that's
just
not
appropriate.
I
think
again
there
could
be
more
effort
made
to
accommodate
the
existing
administration
and
work
with
what's
there
and
then
maybe
there's
you
know
limited
spaces
where
they
need
to
modify
the
administration,
and
that
certainly
would
be
within
the
kind
of
bounds
of
what
the
commission
has
seen
in
the
past.
A
But,
as
is
I,
I
didn't
recommend
against
the
application,
I
just
rec,
I'm
just
recommending
that
at
this
stage
I
think
that
the
applicant
could
go
back
to
the
drawing
board
on
this
and
and
treat
the
existing
administration
more
sensitively
in
terms
of
keeping
keeping
the
window
openings
intact.
A
So
that's
my
recommendation
to
the
commission.
I
did
also
note
that,
and
there
won't
be
a
deck
railing,
so
you
can
ignore
that
node
on
what
I've
asked
for.
As
far
as
additional
information,
the
only
other
thing
that
we're
missing
are
the
the
window
and
door
manufacturer
specs.
So
I
don't
think
we're
to
the
point
of
needing
those.
Yet
unless
the
commission
thinks,
but
of
course,
any
new
unit
would
be
wood
and
match
existing
historic
windows
and
all
the
fenestration
on
the
front,
I
should
say,
is
original,
which
is
nice.
A
So
that's
my
those
are
my
comments
and
happy
to
answer
questions.
If
you
don't
have
any.
C
Alex
one
of
the
things
that
we
look
at
sometimes
when
we're
talking
about
projects
with
these
window
replacements
is
there's
been
some
modifications
over
the
years
that
have
moved
away
from
the
more
historic
pattern
of
windows
on
a
particular
house
and
there's
always
some
evidence
that
there
was
used
to
be
a
window
somewhere
or
the
window
size
changed,
and
the
and
the
applicant
is
looking
to
move
things
back
closer
to
what
the
evidence
suggests.
A
more
historic
pattern
of
windows
would
have
been.
Is
there
any
indication
in
this
house?
A
That's
a
great
question
and
all
I
can
go
on
is
what
I
observed
in
the
field
which
to
me
the
pattern
of
the
fenestration
on
this
house.
It
does
have
a
rhythm
and
a
pattern
that,
to
me,
is
consistent
with
the
architectural
character
of
this
house,
which
is
sort
of
like
vernacular
arts
and
crafts
style
house.
I
do
think
this
is
a
not
you
know
exactly,
but
this
kind
of
like
window
pattern,
that's
a
little
more
scattered.
A
Typical
on
this
style
of
house
in
montford,
I
will
let
trey
speak
to
as
the
builders
speak
to
any
information
he
might
have
on.
You
know
investigating
the
interior
of
the
structure
as
far
as
any
existing
openings
that
are
proposed
to
be
modified.
That
may
have
already
been
modified.
I
know
the
rear
elevation
is
probably
not
you
can
kind
of
tell
just
by
looking
at.
A
Maybe
the
second
story
is
hasn't
been
changed,
but
the
first
story
is
kind
of
funky
so
and-
and
I
know
that
trey
and
I
talked
about
one
of
the
door-
openings
being
not
original,
which
maybe
was
this
one
on
the
left.
If
there
was
a
porch
on
the
other
side
historically,
so
so
I'll,
I
think
I'll
defer
that
question
to
him
a
little
bit,
but
in
my
opinion
I
do
think
it's
sort
of
to
me
that
the
fenestration,
as
is,
is
character
defining
of
the
structure
it
does.
H
Sorry
alex
quick
process
question.
We
are
now
at
five
commissioners.
We
lost
commissioner
gross.
I
don't
know
if
we
can
keep
discussing
this
with
only
five
of
us.
I
know
we
need
to
vote
with
six
of
us,
but
just
as
an
fyi.
I
I
None
of
that
fenestration,
except
for
the
lower
right
door,
would
have
been
original.
The
second
story
of
that
area
was
also
an
open
porch.
We
found
siding
on
the
interior
walls
that
would
have
indicated
that
was
an
open
sleeping
porch.
At
some
point,
you
can
see
where
that
door
has
been
plywooded
off
that
wasn't
original,
and
neither
were
these
second
story
windows
on
the
left,
elevation
or
sorry.
What
we're
calling
the
right,
elevation
or
south
elevation,
the
shutters
that
whole
area
of
the
house.
I
We
found
evidence
of
previous
rough
openings
that
had
been
adjusted
and
then
covered
up
and
then
yeah
the
two.
The
two
on
the
right
are
not
original
either
everything
over
on
the
left.
Those
are
all
currently
previously
replaced
vinyl
windows,
but
I
do
believe
that
those
sizes
are
the
original
sizes
because
of
the
way
the
replacement
windows
were
installed
and
it
does
appear
to
be
original
trim
and
we'd
be
open
to
maintaining
those
sizes
of
the
windows.
I
But
we
do
want
to
replace
the
windows
because
I
really
don't
want
to
have
a
hodgepodge
of
you
know:
older
replacement,
vinyl
windows,
the
original
windows
on
the
front
facade
and
then
our
new
windows
that
we're
installing,
and
so
one
of
the
things
we
tried
with
this
design,
was
to
just
go
ahead
and
what
I
think
create
a
more
unified
look
for
the
house
with
the
edition
that
was
previously
completed
on
the
back.
I
If
we
go
to
the
other
side
elevation,
you
know
we're
looking
at
changing
the
elevations
there
because
of
where
we're
putting
the
kitchen
and
where
we're
putting
the
bathroom
and
so
the
top
left
corner
of
the
house
there.
That
was
the
original
sleeping
porch
we're
proposing
to
move
one
window
over
and
then
the
two
on
the
bottom
right,
we're
trying
to
center
back
into
the
room.
I
To
me,
those
elevations
and
the
way
that
they
appear
from
the
street
are
still
very
historically
correct
and
don't
change
the
fabric
of
the
house
from
what
would
have
appeared
originally
that
dramatically.
E
I
Oh
we're
also,
of
course,
proposing
to
use
german
lap
siding
and
reproduction
wood
siding
on
all
of
the
exterior
as
we
go
through
and
replace,
what's
rotten
and
in
need
of
repair
and
then,
as
we
go
around
and
re-trim
out
the
new
replacement
windows,
we
will
of
course
use
correct,
trim,
details
and
exterior
sills
and
so
on.
A
I
wonder
just
thank
you
for
that
information
trade.
Knowing
that
do
you
think
to
the
commissioners,
do
you
think
that
my
my
instinct
is
to
say?
Well,
then,
you
know
like
the
window
up
the
window,
openings
that
are
more
towards
the
front
of
the
house,
but
our
original
should
stay
and
then
the
ones
on
you
know
farther
back
and
on
the
rear
where
they've
you
know
already
been
modified,
it's
okay
to
modify
those.
Does
the
commission
have
any
thoughts
about
that
since
these,
I
guess
theoretically
have
already
been
changed
at
some
point.
F
I
K
F
I
F
And
there
were
other
wood
windows
that
were
still
on
that
side,
the
smaller
one
under
the
eaves.
Let.
I
Me
go
back
to
my
full-size
drawing,
so
I
can
just
double
check
no
on
this
elevation.
All
the
other
windows
have
been
replaced
with
those
vinyl
replacement
windows.
All
of
the
original
windows
are
actually
on
the
front
facade
of
the
building.
F
This
first
floor
short
window,
the
third.
I
That
is
actually
not
an
original
window,
because
that
is
part
of
the
addition
that
was
completed
at
some
point
in
the
house,
and
so
we've
done
some
interior
demolition,
trying
to
open
up
the
bones
a
little
bit
and
see
what
we're
dealing
with
and
you
can
go
inside
and
I'd
be
happy
to
have
you
on
a
site
visit
and
you
can
see
where
those
original
rough
omens
have
been
modified
from
the
interior.
Framing.
A
F
Is
that
yeah?
That's
probably
stairwell,
but
there
are
those
so
there's
very
few,
but
that
top
fixed
window.
I
F
I
Correct
that
is
in
the
stairwell
that
does
appear
to
be
original
and
where
we're
trying
to
replace
that
unit
with
a
double
hung.
It's
just
an
attempt
to
bring
more
light
into
the
new.
The
opening
stairwell.
I
Scene,
the
stairwell,
actually
that's
the
end
of
the
hallway,
upstairs
the
stairwell
is
off
to
the
right
right.
F
F
Have
less
issue
with
this
side
of
the
building?
I
have
issue
with
the
standards
saying
to
retain
and
preserve
the
original
openings
of
windows,
as
close
as
you
can,
because
everything's.
K
F
F
No,
that's
what
you're
adding
but
there's
already
one
up
at
the
top
a
precedent
setting
one
up
in
that
top
second
floor.
But
is
that
what
you're
proposing
on
the
first
floor
as
well.
F
Well,
it's
proposed
the
where
the
roof
line
is
plunging
into
the
window,
because
that
curves
and
comes
back
in
the
roof.
F
I
Does
return
back?
It
does
return
back
to
the
roof
line.
Yeah
in
that
window
that
we
are
yeah
it'll
be
up
under
the
rafter
tails
is
what
it'll
be.
That
is
an
awkward
placement
on
the
elevation.
F
But
anyway,
to
al
to
staff's
point
of
when
you
look
at
the
the
the
current
placement
of
windows.
And
then
this
focusing
of
centrally
with
it's
not
quite
as
we're
losing
a
little
something
there,
that
the
that
the
standards
are
trying
to
protect
with
keeping
the
windows
where
they're
placed
is.
F
And
I
can
let
other
commissioners
weigh
in.
D
Well,
I
agree,
and
I
think
the
word
that
you
may
be
looking
for
is
balance
because
once
the
once
the
window
is
deleted
on
the
left
end
and
then
another
window
added
more
towards
the
center.
It
kind
of
it
focuses
most
of
the
attention
in
the
center
of
the
building,
rather
than
distribute
distributing
it
across
the
structure.
I
So
the
the
reason
we're
eliminating
we're
trying
to
eliminate
the
two
lower
windows
on
that
floor
is
to
allow
for
the
kitchen
to
fill
that
corner
of
the
house.
And
I
understood
that
that
was
a
reasonable
request
to
try
and
relocate
fenestration
to
allow
for
some
interior
alterations.
A
That
there's
not
much
discussion
about
it.
I
do
agree
with
that
comment
about
that
kind
of
big
blank
space
doesn't
really
read
as
consistent
with
the
rest
of
the
fenestration
on
this
house.
I,
I
wonder
you
know
you,
you
can
obviously
put
a
window
above
the
counter.
Is
that
something
that
you
all
would
consider?
I
The
way
that
we've
designed
the
kitchen,
you
know
we
put
all
the
windows
to
the
rear,
to
bring
in
the
the
backyard,
and
so
that
was
going
to
be
the
wall,
cabinets
and
stove
with
a
hood
wall.
I
It
would
just
be
a
more
efficient
interior
layout.
We
did
preserve
the
one
existing
window
in
between
the
the
countertop
run
and
the
tall
pantry.
If
you
actually
look
at
the
the
floor
plan
on
sheet
five
and
the
intention
there
was
to
preserve
that
window,
because
it
is
an
existing
window
and
we
wanted
to
introduce
the
light
into
that
part
of
the
kitchen.
C
I
think
there's
no
question,
obviously
that
replacing
the
vinyl
windows
is
appropriate
for
sure
and
and
providing
some
consistency
from
window
to
window,
with
all
of
them
being
detailed
like
the
original
windows
and
wood.
Obviously,
like
the
original
windows.
G
C
I
get
a
little
bit
I
towards
the
front
of
the
house,
where
we've
got
some
strong
clarity
around
where
the
original
openings
were
and
the
fact
that
there's
still
windows
in
those
openings,
they
may
have
replaced
them
with
the
vinyl
at
some
point,
but
largely
those
opening
the
placement
of
the
openings
is
intact.
C
If
there
was
effort
made
to
keep
those
original
openings
in
their
current
locations,
I
think
we
obviously
have
a
lot
more
evidence
in
the
back
of
the
house
that
those
that
the
changes
have
happened
over
the
years
and
that
those
the
sleeping
porch
and
the
addition
that
was
filled
in
I
think
we
do
have
a
lot
less
information
there
about
what
we've
already
moved,
pretty
far
away
from
what
was
original
just
by
building
walls
there
in
the
first
place,
and
so
that
that
towards
the
back
in
those
areas
and
in
response
to
the
kitchen,
that's
always
a
challenge
when
you're
reworking
kitchens
and
houses
where
windows
were
to
get
a
kitchen
that
really
is
useful
on
the
inside.
H
C
You
know
so,
I
think
for
me,
I
far
more
comfortable
with
proposing
the
nuance
of
existing
stuff
in
the
back
than
I
am
in
the
front
where
it's
very
clear
where
the
openings
were
and
have
been
with
with
limited
modifications,
aside
from
maybe
replacing
the
actual
window
themselves
in
the
in
the
openings,
and
so
I
would
love
to
see
some
updates
to
the
proposed
application
to
try
to
be
sensitive
to
where
those
openings
are
currently
and,
if
there's
a
response
that
feels
good
on
the
inside.
C
That
would
keep
those
the
integrity
of
that.
I
would
be
I'd,
be
pretty
open
to
that
for.
I
Sure
I'm
sure
we
would
be
comfortable
with
on
the
the
right
elevation,
maintaining
the
existing
pattern
for
those
you
know
front
two
on
the
first
and
second
story
that
seems
more
than
reasonable.
H
A
quick
clarification,
because
this
is
a
cheat
that
I've
done
on
other
homes
where
we
built
a
dressing
room.
We
left
the
existing
window.
We
hung
a
curtain
in
it,
but
we
built
our
cabinets
up
against
the
window
so
from
the
outside,
the
windows
were
there,
but
functionally
from
the
inside.
There
were
no
windows.
If
you
know
what
I
mean-
and
I
don't
know
how
much
that
would
be
taboo
here,
but
from
the
since
it
seems
to
be
the
concerns
from
the
outside
from
looking
like,
there
is
a
window
there.
H
I
A
I
can
understand,
like
I
think,
we've
had
one
other
application
where
someone
did
similar
to
what
commissioner
vaughn
was
describing,
but
it
wasn't
a
closet
versus
a
kitchen
space
where
that
might
be
harder
to
work
around.
I
don't
know
I'll
leave
that
to
you
all
to
discuss,
but
it's
a
good
idea
in
some
places
it
can
work,
but
I
appreciate
commissioner
vaughn
throwing
that
out
there,
because
it's
definitely
something
that
we've
seen
before
just
down
in
the
kitchen.
D
It
looks
to
me
like
one
consideration
that
would
that
would
be
a
factor
in
this
project.
Is
they
appear
to
have
their
cooktop
or
range
located
there?
Yes,
so
there
may
have
to
be.
You
know
some
vent
hood
ducting
and
things
like
that.
That
would
interfere
with
with
that
solution.
I
I
mean,
ideally,
we
would
just
frame
in
the
wall
and
be
able
to
insulate
it
properly
and
and
then
you
know
treat
it
as
a
fully
framed
insulated
wall
with
siding
on
the
exterior.
But
if
that
would
be
more
amenable,
I'm
sure
we
could
build
a
wall
in
front
of
the
windows
and
you
know
change
the
plane
on
it.
A
little
bit
to
make
that
work.
Is
that
sort
I
mean
it's
an
unusual
detail
but
possible.
C
And
I
think
there's
opportunity
there
to
sort
of
think
that
through
for
me
personally,
that's
probably
one
of
the
lesser
concerns
that
I
have
is
that
sort
of
back
corner,
because
I
do
think
there's
there's
certainly
precedence
for
us
as
a
commission
in
kitchen
in
response
to
changes
in
kitchens
and
things
like
that,
where
the
there's
a
direct
there's,
a
direct
relationship
between
what
we
need
to
be
doing
on
the
inside
in
the
kitchen
and
what
the
response
has
to
be
in
terms
of
the
changes
to
windows.
C
I
think
there's
a
correlation
there,
that's
a
little
different
than
maybe
some
of
these
other
changes
that
are
proposed,
which
is
sort
of
changed
for
the
sake
of
wanting
it
to
be
slightly
different
but
close
to
what
it
was,
and
I
think
I'm
suggesting
that
those
in
those
locations
where
it's
almost
what
you
wanted
and
is
already
there
and
it's
very
clear
that
it's
always
the
window's
been
the
that
particular
size
or
that
particular
shape
that
we
that
we
take
better
care
to
respond.
C
Sorry,
my
dogs,
let
me
take
take
some
care
to
make
the
inside
response
match,
what's
already
happening
on
the
outside.
Instead
of
vice
versa.
You
know
we
work
that
back
and
forth
when
we're
doing
houses,
how
much
of
the
inside
wants
to
influence
what's
happening
on
the
outside?
C
How
much
vice
versa-
and
I
think,
there's
room
in
this
proposal
for
both
of
those
things
to
be
happening
really,
depending
on
where
we
are
on
the
floor
plan
and
depending
on
where
we
are
on
the
on
the
facades,
every
room
and
every
place
is
going
to
want
its
own
consideration
on.
What's
the
right,
appropriate.
I
Balance
and
again,
you
know
on
that
existing
right
elevation,
the
south
elevation,
I'm
sure,
we'd
be
more
than
comfortable
going
back
if
we
can
pull
that
up
for
just
a
second,
you
know
the
I
think,
that's
the
north
side,
yeah
the
two
double
hungs
that
we
were
proposing,
the
ups,
the
first
story
and
the
second
story,
I'm
sure
we
could
maintain
those.
Since
I
I
do
feel
like
those
are
original.
A
B
I
What
I
think
is
trying
to
bring
some
more
light
into
the
hall,
so
I'd
really
like
to.
I
would
really
like
to
put
a
window
there,
a
larger
window
and
operable
window.
That
window
unit
is
fixed.
It
doesn't
open
at
all.
You
know
it's
it's
at
the
top
of
the
hall,
it's
actually
it's
a
very
from
my
experience
in
working
in
older
homes.
It's
a
very
unusual
detail
to
have
such
a
small
window
at
the
end
of
the
hole.
What.
I
F
It
was
built
around
that
small
window
originally,
perhaps
that's
the
reason.
The
size.
A
Well-
and
I
also
think
that
that
really
is
part
of
what
makes
the
fenestration
harmonious
on
this
elevation,
I
feel
like,
if
you
add,
if
you
keep
the
two
existing
pairs
of
double
on
windows
towards
the
front,
and
then
you
add
a
third
pair
in
the
middle.
It's
just
to
me
that
it's
gonna
look
really
odd.
What.
A
A
Height,
but
I
don't-
and
I
and
I
agree
I
understand
wanting
to
have
more
light,
but
I
do
think
that
preserving
as
many
of
the
original
openings
as
possible,
if
we
know
they're
there,
that's
kind
of
what
the
that's
one
of
the
more
important
parts
of
this
whole
exercise,
it's
really
making
sure
we
preserve
as
much
as
we
possibly
can,
and
so
I
I
anyways
that's
my
opinion.
E
A
E
E
I
F
There's
a
another
thing
that
so
the
sanborn
map
shows
that
back
porch
as
and
I
think
that's
going
to
affect
your
decision
making.
If
the
commission-
and
maybe
we
can
provide
some
clear
input
on
that.
D
F
Right
photo.
A
Here's
the
samware
map,
it's
a
little
bit
hard
to
tell
and
again
this
is
kind
of
where
I'm
going
to
rely
on
trey
and
his
construction
expertise
that
I
think,
like
you,
can
kind
of
tell
what
he
was
describing
that
little
one
story
portion
on
the
back
was
altered
at
some
point,
I
I
cannot
say
with
100
assuredness
that
the
existing
roof
form
that's
on
the
right
is
original,
but
it
certainly
looks
like
it's
in
the
same
so.
I
I
believe
there
was
some
covering
there.
The
covering
that
is
there
right
now
is
not
original
the
rafter
tail
details
are
not
original
to
the
rest
of
the
house,
and
if
you
go
back
to
your
rear
picture,
you
can
see
that
it
was
built
after
the
edition,
because
it
actually
over
frames
over
the
windows
that
were
added
in
the
edition.
I
So,
do
you
see
how
in
the
lower
left
corner
of
the
the
hipaa
roof
work
comes
in,
it
actually
has
been
clipped
and
cuts
into
that
triple
bank
of
windows
that
was
put
in
place.
F
I
Well,
it's
part
of
when,
when
the
house
was
cut
up-
and
it's
been,
you
know
it's
a
hodgepodge
honestly
right,
so
you
see
the
same
thing
that
has
the
addition
is
the
center
body
right
there.
You
see
the
same
thing
where
the
original
upper
hip
does
the
same
thing
and
then
you've
got
one
the
newer
flat
roof
that
was
built
on
the
addition
over
frames
onto
the
original
existing
hip
turret.
F
Well,
to
help
you
with
your
windows,
I
feel
that
there
was
some
sort
of
porch
there
and
there
is
a
porch
there.
Now
that
was
replicating,
maybe
a
repair
at
some
point,
but
that
existing
porch
coming
off
of
the
future
kitchen.
F
F
I
think.
That's
what
we're
headed
come
back
with
a
revised
window
plan
I'll
be
quiet
for
a
second.
C
Well,
I
tend
to
agree
with
you.
I
think
it's
pretty.
It
feels
pretty
important,
given
its
presence
on
the
map,
it's
hard
to
tell
from
the
sanborn
map,
to
the
the
photographs
or
or
being
out
there,
whether
it's
the
same
size
or
you
know.
If
it's
it's
been
reconstructed
at
some
point,
it
certainly
looks
like
the
columns
that
support
that
porch
were
built.
C
You
know
integrated
into
the
deck
or
vice
versa.
But
I
wonder
if
there's
an
opportunity
in
as
I
look
at
the
proposed
elevations,
for
you
know
the
the
shed
roof
that's
proposed,
I
guess
we're
getting
rid
of
a
door,
so
the
porch
is
hard
to
you
know.
Those
porches
certainly
acted
to
identify
an
entrance
and
so
we're
getting
rid
of
an
entrance.
We're
gonna
have
a
really
you
know,
sort
of
grand
porch
roof
over
a
window
that
doesn't
lead
to
anywhere
and
the
doors
are
actually
going
to
scoot
over
to
something
else.
C
So
there's
a
little
bit
of
an
oddness
to
that.
That's
I
don't
know
how
you
reconcile
that.
F
Yeah
the
standards
kind
of
talk
about
that
on
number
one
on
page
73
on
porches
that
you
know
try
and
retain
that's.
So
we
don't
have
that
problem.
That
you're,
describing
which
you
know
right
a
ghost
porch
to
retain
and
preserve
historic,
porches
entrances
and
balconies,
so
that
kind
of
throws
up.
F
If
that
needs
to
stay
a
door
and
not,
I
can't
remember
now,
looking
what
that's
becoming,
but
I
think
just
windows.
I
think
that's
something
that.
F
I
If
we're
trying
to
and
and
by
the
way
that
door
location
is
not
original
either,
it's
not
an
original
door.
And
again
we
can
see
this
from
the
interior
framing.
I
When
we've
opened
the
house
up
to
look
at
it
a
little
bit
more
closely
for
us
to
get
the
windows
the
triple
bank
of
windows
in
the
kitchen
on
the
rear,
we
would
need
to
push
that
door
over
a
little
bit
and
if
we
were
to
do
that,
while
trying
to
maintain
this
porch
roof,
that's
going
to
lead
to
a
very
awkward
orientation
as
we
move
the
door
a
little
bit
more
to
the
center.
I
C
I
A
So
I
I'm
gonna
interject
here
and
just
say:
I'm
sorry,
I've
been
like
checked
out,
trying
really
hard
to
study
the
photos
and
the
sanborn
and
the
drawings
all
together
and
it's
sort
of
I
agree.
It
looks
like
on
the
sanborn
map
that
the
that
it's
hard
to
tell
because
the
floor
plans
that
exist
today,
like
you,
don't
there's
a
little
bump
out
that
you've
shown
trey
on
the
north
side,
but
it
doesn't
really
match
up
books
here
and.
K
I
I
A
So
I
I
mean
I'm
gonna
just
defer
to
I'm
gonna
trust
that
you
know
if
you
looked
at
it
in
the
field
and
it
doesn't
look
like
it
would
be.
Oh.
A
Okay,
it's
yeah
because
it's
shown
on
the
1925,
slash,
1951
sanborn
maps
and
I
feel
like
if
it
were
in
its
historic
location,
it
would
be
further
over
to
the
would
only
make
sense
of
the
door
farther
over
exactly
yes,.
C
M
A
You
know,
I
don't
know
the
methodology
they
use
to
create
these,
but
they
should
be
fairly
accurate
because
obviously
they
use
them
for
insurance
purposes,
but
I
imagine
that
there
are
probably
errors
made
here
and
there,
but
I
feel
like
based
on
the
information.
You
know
that
trey
has
in
terms
of
the
construction
of
the
overhang
and
just
comparing
kind
of
how
this,
in
order
to
make
these
modifications
that
couldn't
have
been
there.
I
don't
think
like
awesome,
so
I
would
think
that
this
was
just
like.
I
I
And
then
that
odd
little
colonial
shed
gable,
that's
coming
out,
you
know,
that's
that's
just
a
strange
detail.
The
way
that
they've
tied
that
into
the
hip,
the
way
it
comes
around
the
corner
and
that
whole
second,
the
whole
first
and
second
story.
Part
of
the
house
is
not
original,
as
we
can
see
from
the
sanborn
now.
E
I
Which
is
inset
in
that
it's
just
an
inset
inside
corner
and
then
there
was
more
foundation
added
when
the
edition
was
built
and
you
can
see
the
dissimilarities.
F
I'm
confused
now,
so
the
the
we
don't
feel
the
porch
is
original
or
important
anymore.
On
the
back
of
the
house.
Is
that
correct,
alex.
F
A
B
C
I
mean,
I
think,
if
we,
if
we,
we
forget
the
porch
in
the
back
for
a
minute,
I
I
do
think
there's
you
know
it's
pretty
compelling
that
it's
not
original
to
the
house.
I
in
general,
I'm
I,
I
think
the
the
proposed
changes
in
the
back
carrying
that
sort
of
nice
little
shed
across
the
back
to
tie
those
roofs
together
in
general
as
an
improvement,
and
I
think
if.
C
It
does,
and
I
think
that
it
we've
seen
a
lot
of
applications
with
this
kind
of
a
change
proposed
in
the
back,
where
we're
going
to
turn
existing
window
openings
into
doors,
because
that's
typically,
where
a
lot
of
the
kitchens
and
dining
spaces
have
been
found
and
that
we
have.
C
We
have
considered
an
awful
lot
of
applications
with
similar,
similar
proposals
on
rear
elevations
in
response
to
the
same
kinds
of
changes
to
what's
happening
on
the
insides
of
of
houses
and
renovations.
And
so
you
know,
I
think,
if
we,
if
we
can
get
comfortable
with
the
big
porch
over
that
existing
door
going
away.
I
think
that
the
proposed
work
is
pretty
successful
in
terms
of
how
it
looks
and
and
helping
the
back
elevation,
which
has
been
sort
of
cobbled
together
over
the
years
for
sure.
C
So
that
feels
pretty
good
to
me,
and
I
think
that,
coupled
with
some
more
sensitivity
around
the
front
of
the
house
to
to
where
the
existing
openings
were,
and
some
of
the
whimsy
that
happens
when
you
get
rid
of
a
closet
and
you've
got
this
little
weird
window
at
the
end
of
your
hallway.
That
becomes
part
of
a
story
of
a
house
that
is
really
interesting,
I
think,
and
that
there's
it
may
not
check
the
box
for
more
light,
but
it
also
tells
a
story.
C
That's
kind
of
interesting
and
unique
to
the
house.
That's
worth
worth,
saving
I
think
and
there's
there's
whimsy
and
those
kinds
of
opportunities
where
we
keep
those
kinds
of
things.
So
for
me,
I
think
that
you
know
with
some
some
changes
around
the
front,
to
align
better
with
the
existing
openings.
C
I
think
we
could
get
pretty.
You
know
a
lot
closer
to
moving
forward.
A
C
I
I
Both
double
hung
windows
as
existing
towards
the
front
there.
C
H
C
C
I
Done
we're
keeping
that
and
we're
going
to
actually
put
a
little
plaque
up
at
the
the
end
of
the
hallway
here.
C
I
Now
my
where
the
shutters
are
I'd
like
to
I'd
like
to
put
a
new
window
in
there,
if
we're
okay
with
that
one.
D
I
C
I
F
I
agree
it's
on
the
back.
It's
an
edition
and
it's
far
from
the
street
view.
I
K
G
F
I
One
more,
the
only
other
window
would
be
that
one
on
the
second
story
that
we're
relocating
in
hopes
of
putting
a
shower
in
the
corner.
I
F
Seeing
on
the
right
with
the
original
windows
on
the
first
floor
left.
I
F
F
There's
a
casement,
a
thinner
casement,
as
you
have
on
the
south
elevation
solution
where.
K
F
K
F
B
F
Lack
of
balance,
as
vice
chair
spring,
said
in
the
kitchen,
because
I
don't
think
you're,
really
it's
still
keeping
that
little
center.
I
F
No
I'm
saying
the
whole
gathering
of
windows.
The
whole
splatter
of
windows
are
all
centrally
located
instead
of
distributed
like
they
are
on
the
left.
Currently,
it's
not,
and
then
I
thought
I
think
we
were
talking
about
that
earlier.
C
We
were,
and
maybe
is
it
exacerbated
well
for
you
because
of
the
added
window
towards
like
the
to
the
that
window.
That's
just
to
the
left
of
the
front
windows
that
added
window.
That's
going
to
be
in
that
bathroom.
F
In
an
ocd
way,
if
I
will,
I
think
I
would
it
pains
me
to
see
it
for
you
doing
that,
for
the
fourth
time
on
the
house,
a
window
diving
into
a
or
a
roof.
J
I
A
C
I
think
so
too,
because
it
looks
like
even
on
the
floor
plan.
There's
a
you
know:
they've
got
the
countertop
right
there
too,
for
the
vanity.
I
So
we'll
change
that
one
to
a
single
casement
window
and
we'll
approximately
replicate
the
size
of
that
one
in
the
upstairs
hallway
and
we'll
put
a
little
plaque
on
that.
One
too
that
mimics
the
one
upstairs.
I
But
removing
the
double
hung's
on
the
lower
left
side
for
the
kitchen,
that's
really
where
I'm
that's
kind
of
necessary
for
our
kitchen
layout.
Are
we
okay
with
that.
D
D
I
D
I
I
There
will
be
yeah,
there
will
be
a
small
exhaust
event,
probably
tucked
up
under
the
eve
just
a
little.
You
know
typical
four
by
four
or
six
by
six
vented
louver.
I
There's
no
closed
soffit.
It's
just
rafter
tails.
It's
hard
to
tell
from
this
image,
of
course,
but
it
is
open,
framing
and
then
roof
deck.
I
K
I
C
Commissioners
are:
are
we
ready
for
a
motion
alex?
Does
that
suffice
in
terms
of
amendment.
A
Yes,
could
you
maybe
just
give
me
one
minute
to
amend.
K
C
J
A
D
Madam
chair,
based
upon
the
evidence
presented
to
this
commission,
include
including
exhibit
a
application
and
project
description.
Four
pages
exhibit
b
plans,
elevation,
drawings
and
photos.
10
pages
exhibit
c
window
brochure,
48
pages,
exhibit
d
1925
sanborn
fire
insurance
map
exhibit
e
additional
photos
of
subject
property.
Four
pages
taken
by
staff
february
1st
2022.
D
All
work
will
be
in
accordance
with
attached
drawings
and
plans.
All
permits,
variances
or
approvals,
as
required
by
law,
must
be
obtained
before
work
may
commence.
Two
that
the
standards
for
windows
and
doors
found
on
pages
84-85
decks
on
pages
38-39
and
porches
entrances
and
balconies.
On
pages,
72-73
of
the
montford
historic
district
design
review
standards
adopted
on
april
14,
2010
and
amended
december
9th
2019
were
used
to
evaluate
this
request.
Three,
this
application
does
meet
the
design
standards
for
the
following
reasons:
a
windows
and
doors
being
replaced
are
not
original
or
historic.
D
New
window
and
door
units
will
be
wood,
the
window
and
door
openings
being
modified,
are
on
rear
or
non-character.
Defining
facade
of
the
building
see
new
roof
covering
and
deck
stairs
and
handrails
will
be
compatible
with
the
historic
character
of
the
building.
Four,
the
action
and
improvements
proposed
in
the
application
before
us
for
a
certificate
of
appropriateness
are
congruence
with
the
special
historic
character
of
the
montford
historic
district.
C
F
C
A
C
D
Are
there
ones
too?
There
are
no
more
like
hearings,
correct.
C
H
A
little
bit
adjustment
emily
does
that
mean
that
you
don't
have
the
same
email
address.
C
That
is
correct.
I
did
james
get
your
email
forwarded
to
me.
Okay
and
I
I
have
forgotten
to
respond
to
you,
but
it's
in
my
my
old
employer
is
forwarding
things
to
me
that
are
important,
so
that
one
did
come
through
and
I'll
be.
I
can
follow
up
with
you.
I
just
have
been
in
computer
transition
land
for
two
weeks.
No.
H
C
But
yes,
I
I
now
have
a
new
email.
I
have
a
personal
email
but
everybody's
been
using
my
work,
email,
which
is
now
different.
J
G
B
A
All
right
so
just
wanted
to
maybe
spend
maybe
10
minutes
on
follow
up
on
the
buncombe
county,
comprehensive
plan
presentation.
A
I
definitely
had
a
couple
of
conversations
coming
out
of
that
meeting,
that,
with
the
I
think
there
was
maybe
the
feeling
left
out
there,
that
it
wasn't
really
a
great
kind
of
platform
to
give
adequate
feedback
or
more
detailed
feedback
too
on
there
on
their
plan,
and
so
what
I
thought
I'd
do
is
just
kind
of
give
you
guys
some
con,
contextual
information,
just
in
terms
of
like
you
know,
know
that
when
we
have
our
new
commissioner
trainings,
I
bombard
you
with
so
much
information.
K
M
A
I
can
just
recap
a
little
bit
about
how
the
commission
was
formed
and
how
our
working
relationship
with
the
county
has
been
sent.
So
that's
I'm
just
going
to
start
us
off
there
and
then
well.
I
know
you
had
sent
me
some
follow-up
questions,
so
we
can
just
go
through
and
just
have
general
discussion.
You
guys
can
ask
me
anything
or
you
know.
Let
me
know
any
comments
that
you've
thought
on
that
you
might
want
me
to
to
forward
on
to
the
county,
because
I
feel
like
I
felt
I
felt
like
it
wasn't.
Very.
A
It
wasn't
a
very
great
kind
of
way
to
capture
what
you
all
might
want
to
say,
but
also
I
recognize
that
you
all
probably
don't
have
enough
context
around
how
we
work
with
the
county
and
their
staff,
so
I'll
just
kind
of
go
into
that
a
little
bit.
So,
as
you
all
might
recall,
the
commission
was
formed
in
1979
and
there
it
was
formed
as
a
joint
city,
county
commission
and
their
ordinances
from
both
entities.
A
Creating
the
commission.
It's
not
uncommon
for
there
to
be
joint
bodies
or
plenty
of
other
municipalities
in
north
carolina
that
work
with
their
county
agencies
to
to
manage
a
preservation.
Commission,
the
county
has
not
always
fully
funded
our
program
or
how
our
administration
is
housed
solely
within
the
city
of
asheville.
A
Obviously,
I'm
the
primary
person
dedicated
to
managing
the
program
with
avery,
obviously
doing
some
of
them
coming
on
back
about
six
months
or
so
ago
to
help
support,
and
so
our
operational
budget
really
comes
from
the
city
and
maybe
10
or
so
years
ago,
or
so
I
can't
I
could
go
back
and
look
at
our
notes,
but
I
don't
think
I
think
that
the
county
was
maybe
allocating
around
like
10
000
to
15
000,
maybe
15
20
years
ago,
and
then
they
implemented
this
new
strategic
partnership
grant
thing
where
they,
then
that
was
mostly
available
to
folks
like
leaf
or
other
nonprofits,
where
you
could
go
and
apply,
but
once
they
created
that
program,
they
didn't
started
asking
us
to
apply
to
them
as
if
we
were
a
non-profit
for
our
program,
and
so
I
guess
the
point
I'm
trying
to
make
is
that
we
haven't
really
had
a
very
kind
of
solid
relationship
with
them
for
some
time
in
terms
of
their
supporting
our
program,
even
though
it
is
a
joint
city
county
commission,
our
resources
are
pretty
limited,
to
say
the
least
in
terms
of
the
capacity
we
have
with
our
operational
budget
with
the
city
so
really
kind
of
what
we're
doing
is
maintaining
the
program,
we're
not
necessarily
moving
the
ball
forward
outside
of
the
city
limits.
A
We
are
working
on
some
specialized
projects
within
the
city
limits
like
the
african-american
heritage
survey
and
the
burton
street
architectural
survey
and
and
part
of
the
reason
right
is
because
we
have
to
focus
our
energy
where
our
resources
are
coming
from.
We
wish
we
could
do
more
in
the
county
and
it
it
is
certainly
something
that
is
set
forth
within
the
historic
preservation
master
plan
which
you,
if
you
haven't,
read
the
shocker
on
buncombe
county.
I
would
suggest
that,
as
a
good
place
to
start
the
historic
preservation
master
plan
was
created
in
in
2015.
A
We
never
took
it
to
the
county
commission
for
adoption
in
part
because
of
resources
again,
and
I
think
in
part
two,
because
we
don't
know
if
they
really
are
support
the
goals
and
strategies
that
are
outlined
in
it
and
it's
an
interesting
chapter,
though
it's
high,
they,
the
consultants
tied
about
thai
preservation
and
the
county
back
to
agricultural
preservation,
which
is
a
goal
for
the
county
they
didn't
adopt.
A
I
think
back
in
2007
and
agricultural
preservation
plan,
if
you
will
wasn't
called
the
preservation
plan,
but
something
to
that
effect
and
it's
referenced
in
the
historic
preservation
master
plan,
and
so
you
know
kind
of
recognizing
that
most
of
franklin
county
was
at
that
point
in
time.
Rural
landscape,
obviously
there's
places
plenty
of
places
where
we've
seen
development
occur,
and
now
it's
not
as
rural,
but
the
county's
big
there's
a
lot
of
places
in
the
county
that
you
might
not
think
of,
like
sandy
mush
fairview.
A
Some
places
like
that,
where
you
know
there
are
a
fair
amount
of
resources
left
and
and
the
preservation
master
plan
identifies
the
architectural
survey.
Updating
the
the
county-wide
survey
is
being
a
primary
goal
in
part
because
that
survey
was
it's
older
than
me.
I
won't
tell
you
how
old
I
am,
but
40
plus,
and
so
without
having
an
updated
survey.
A
You
know
all
the
buildings
that
number
one
have
become
historic
since
then,
50
years
is
the
or
older
is
the
kind
of
metric
that
we
look
at
so
anything
built
before
1972
is
considered
historic,
so
we're
missing
a
big,
a
big
gap
of
years.
There
and
our
resources,
but
also
we
don't
know,
what's
still
there,
what's
maybe
been
lost
over
the
years
et
cetera,
and
I
think
it's
really
important
to
you
to
look
at
it
from
a
cultural
landscape
perspective,
which
is
something
that
we
haven't
had
an
opportunity
to
do
before.
A
So
I
thought
that
you
know
just
giving
you
guys
kind
of
that
context.
We
don't
have
like
a
really
close
working
relationship
with
the
county
planning
staff.
In
fact,
that
was
the
first
time
I've
ever
met
julian
phillips.
We
do
have
a
relationship
with
nate
pennington,
who
is
the
county
planning
director?
He
used
to
work
for
the
city
actually,
and
I've
been
you
know
here
and
there
having
conversations
with
him
over
the
last
you
know,
year
or
so
trying
to
talk
about.
A
A
You
know
county,
commission
members
so
and
the
work
that
we
do
administering
to
the
commission
in
general.
K
So
anyways.
M
A
Just
point
all
of
that
out,
so
that
you
kind
of
have
an
idea
of
how
we've
worked
with
the
county
in
the
past
and
how
our
relationship
is
a
little
bit
lacking
and
we're
trying
to
kind
of
take
some
steps
to
improve
that.
And
I
think
that
the
county
comp
plan
is
a
really
good
way
for
us
to
have
an
open
door
with
them.
A
And-
and
so
that's
where
we
are
now
and
just
kind
of
wanted
to
give
you
all
an
additional
opportunity.
Knowing
all
that
information
to
ask
any
additional
questions
or
offer
any
thoughts
that
you
might
have.
You
know
there
were
some
comments
that
came
out
of
the
la
of
the
discussion
during
the
jillian's
presentation
about
a
national
registered
district
downtown
or
things
like
that,
and
we
do
have
a
national
registered
district
downtown,
but
any
any
way
as
I
can
help
kind
of
alleviate
any
questions
or
or
thoughts
you
have.
A
We
used
to
when
we
were
doing
our
strategic
partnership
funding
from
them,
but
they
I
should
back
up
and
say
like
three
years
ago
they
disallowed
us
from
applying
for
that
funding
and
they
limited
it
to
nonprofit
agencies
only
so
we
then
became
ineligible
for
that
funding.
We
were
required
to
submit
an
annual
report
to
them
for
that,
but
we
have
not
since
been
submitting
anything
to
them.
G
F
Okay,
is
there
any
way
that
city
can
help
with
the
county
relationship,
financial
relationship.
A
Well,
like
I
said,
I've
been
working
on
that
with
nate
we've
had
a
few
conversations,
and
I've
drafted
a
couple
of
formal
memos
from
our
department
to
him
to
say
here's
what
our
goals
are.
Here's
how
the
commission
was
created
here
are
the
goals
of
the
comprehensive,
our
master
plan.
You
know,
and
the
ordinances
that
create
the
hrc,
clearly
anticipated
funding
from
both
sides,
and
so
I
think
we're
making
a
little
progress
on
that
front.
A
What
he
asked
me
last
time
we
talked
was
how
much
funding
do
you
need,
and
I
don't
think
we
know
that
until
we
actually
do
the
survey
and
actually,
when
stacy-
and
I
were
talking
about
this
yesterday-
the
way
that
the
master
plan
is
worded
is
it
says
a
reconnaissance
survey
is
the
first
step
and
we
agree
that
that's
a
great
way
to
go,
because
then
that
really
gives
us
a
way
to
like
go
to
the
county
and
say
hey.
It
really
looks
like
sandy.
A
Mush
would
be
the
first
place
to
start
versus
trying
to
do
a
study
or
survey
for
the
entire
county
at
once,
which
might
scare
them
off,
because
that
would
be
really
expensive,
but
but
having
ways
to
communicate
around
like
agricultural
preservation
and
things
of
that
nature,
I
think,
would
bolster
us
if
we're
looking
at
different
areas
of
the
county,
and
I
think,
having
that
reconnaissance
survey
then
would
would
help
us
identify
how
much
funding
we
might
need
in
terms
of
if
we
needed
additional
staff
report,
our
staff
resources
etc.
A
K
D
C
Well,
I
feel
like
some
of
this
is
just
a
we're
gonna
we
get
caught
in
this
circular
problem
right
where
we
don't
have
any
funding,
so
we
can't
really
do
any
reconnaissance
and
help
justify
and
support
and
reinforce
goals
that
folks
in
the
county
have
talked
about
with
regards
to
our
agricultural
preservation
or,
or
you
know,
recognizing
communities
that
have
historically
been
underserved
or
whatever
that
hap
that
exist
out
in
the
county
right.
C
C
Probably
it
was
maybe
right
at
the
beginning
of
covet,
so
it
would
have
been
maybe
2020.
Well,
maybe
it
was
2021
a
year
ago.
I
think.
C
Of
whatever
five
slide
presentation
to
county
commissioners
and
the
you
know,
we
talked
a
little
bit
about
diversity
and
and
some
of
the
things
that
we
were
doing
inside
the
city
with
regards
to
burton
street
and
other
things,
and
one
of
the
concerns
from
the
commissioners
during
that
presentation
was
a
lack
of
diversity
on
our
board.
C
And
but
you
know
not
that
we
need
funding
to
have
a
more
diverse
board.
But
we
do
need
a
partnership
with
the
county
to
be
able
to
follow
through
with
with
goals
that
they
might
have
around
it.
And
I
think
that
the
my
frustration
a
little
bit
with
the
interaction
that
we've
had
around
the
comprehensive
plan
is,
it
was
pretty
scripted
and
we
had
pretty
rigid
kind
of
right
and
left
limits
of
what
we
were
talking
about.
C
And
so
it
felt
like
it
was
pretty
scripted
in
terms
of
the
feedback
they
wanted
was
just
to
reinforce
ideas
that
they
already
had,
and
that's
you
know
feels
like
a
pretty
likely
outcome
would
be
that
a
comprehensive
plan
from
the
county
makes
little
or
no
reference
to
historic
fabric
that
already
exists
within
the
county
and
a
goal
or
desire
to
be
sensitive
to
that
or
to
preserve
it
or
to
protect
it
or
to
or
anything.
I
think
it's
going
to
be
largely
overlooked.
A
Let
me
ask
you
this:
I
I
apparently
there
was
at
some
point
an
application
process
to
be
on
the
steering
committee
for
the
comp
plan.
I'm
not
sure
when
that
happened.
I
that
was
not
on
my
radar,
but
but
one
thing
I
was
wondering
is:
does
this
group
think
it
would
be
helpful
if
we
ask
the
project
consultant
to
come
and
hear
your
thoughts
versus
just
the
long-range
planning
manager
for
the
county,
because
I
almost
feel
like
that's
what
I
I.
A
If
my
consultant
is
to
go
to
the
stakeholder
groups
and
ask
their
thoughts
versus
just
because
I
don't
know
what
jillian
was,
I
don't
know
what
she's
taking
back.
Is
she
taking
back
the
little
sticky
notes
that
are
kind
of
like
how
do
those?
How
do
you
even
make
sense
of
what
those
are
if
you're
not
talking
if
you're,
not
the
one
talking
to
the
group
yourself,
you
know
what
I
mean
like
you.
C
Thought
out
there
you
know,
I
mean
the
reason
we
hire.
Consultants
is
for
two
things:
one
to
help
facilitate
an
engagement
with
the
community,
because
those
consultants
are
trained
and
have
expertise
around
that
kind
of
facilitation
and
two
is
to
be
innovative
and
creative,
around
solutions
that
are
unique
to
a
particular
place
right.
That's
the
the
consultants,
have
that
expertise,
and
so
for
us
to
not
have
had
opportunity
to
engage
with
the
consultants
and
for
them
to
hear
directly.
C
I
think
is
missed
opportunity,
and
I
think
that
it
would
have
been
a
lot
more
open.
Dialogue
could
have
happened.
We
could
have
been
better
prepared
and
warned
for
what
kind
of
information
they
were
looking
for
and
how
the
interaction
was
going
to
go
and
the
opportunity
for
innovation
around
how
all
of
these
different
stakeholder
groups
overlap
in
their
goals
and
priorities
into
a
comprehensive
plan
that
can
really
uniquely
reflect
the
needs
of
buncombe
county.
C
I
think
you
know
it
feels
like
if
other
boards
and
commissions
in
the
county
have
been
having
the
similar
kind
of
engagement,
that
we've
had
they're
going
to
miss
a
whole
bunch
of
information
from
a
whole
body
of
people
that
really
are
participating
in
county
government
and
participating
in
what's
happening
in
our
community
and
in
an
informed
kind
of
way
and
so
they're
missing.
A
lot
of
of
you
know
conversation
with
folks
who
are
already
engaged.
A
For
sure-
and
I
think
you
know-
I
think
one
of
the
things
that
gives
me
that
the
most
pause
is
that
when
we
updated
the
city's
comprehensive
plan,
obviously
we
have
historic
preservation
embedded
in
our
planning
department.
It's
not
embedded
in
theirs,
and
I've
tried
to
get
my
foot
in
the
door
I
offered
to
meet
with
jillian.
A
Before
and
after
our
last
start,
the
presentation
to
you
all
to
just
help
inform
her
about
our
program
and
what
the
roles
and
responsibilities
of
the
commission
are,
because
your
decision
making
can
affect
the
county's
decision
making,
and
so
I
feel
like
you're
a
unique
stakeholder
in
that
way
and
but
but
they
were
nate's
been
receptive
to
talking
with
me,
but
not
jillian,
so
I'll
try
to
continue
down
that
path.
A
Going
to
be
just
something
that
they
skip
over
or
is
it
going
to
be
a
box
like
how
are
they
identifying
these
priorities
on
the
front
end
without
really
going
through
the
engagement
process?
First,
because,
as
you
said,
emily,
it
sort
of
was
like
very
formulaic
the
way
that
they
kind
of
kept
you
within
the
bumpers
to
hey,
alex
sorry,
I
lost
my
headphones
to
give
them
give
the
kind
of
response
they
wanted
to
generate
so.
But
I
will
say
that
nate
did
assure
me
that
he
he
could
he
had.
A
A
F
Okay,
I
was
thinking
if
we
had
our
like
the
groups
of
three
like
they,
the
executive
kind
of
meets.
If
we
could
kind
of
talk
and
then
maybe
in
two
more
meetings
and
then
bring
all
that
together
as
sort
of
directional.
Smaller
group
talks
with
you
facilitating
the
sort
of
the
need.
So
that
is
that
I'm
kind
of
confused
if
we're
going
back
to
the
county
or
if
you're,
just
going
back
to
the
county
and
saying
they're
not
coming
back
to
talk
to
us.
F
A
F
A
A
B
M
H
Unrelated
unrelated,
but
indicative
our
relationship
with
pennington,
there
are
county
projects,
developers
who
are
dumping,
waste
and
runoff
into
our
lake,
causing
damage
that
they
even
acknowledge
accounting
acknowledges.
But
their
view
is
it's
a
private
lake.
It's
our
responsibility.
They
won't
enforce
their
laws,
they
won't
find
them.
They
won't
issue,
stop
work,
orders
and
we're
just
left
with
you
know.
Constant
degradation
of
our
environment
in
this
area
and
pennington's
views
is
too
bad.
H
It's
your
lake,
so
for
whatever
that's
worth
for
how
this
may
play
over
into
how
he's
going
to
treat
us
on
similar
types
of
things.
I
just
show
that
for
what
that's
worth,
but
we
do
not
have
a
good
feels
about
nate
pennington
in
the
kenilworth
neighborhood.
A
Thanks
for
sharing,
I
think
you
know.
Obviously
we
wish
we
had
a
more
closer
working
relationship
with
them
and
I'm
not
just
speaking
for
myself,
I'm
speaking
for
our
department,
because
we
don't
really
get
to
partner
with
them
as
much
as
we
would.
We
think
would
be
beneficial
to
all
involved.
A
F
We
reach
out
to
commissioners
and
and
have
a
specific
ask
of
maybe
a
longer-term
discussion
of
county
preservation
things
instead
of
a
one-day
blast
of
it.
Just
sort
of
an
ongoing
conversation
is.
A
A
A
I
think
people
view
us
as
like
the
preservation
society,
like
a
non-profit
when
obviously
we're
not
so
if,
if
any,
if
any
of
you
have
relationships
with
those
folks
and
want
to
try
to
communicate
with
them
great,
I
feel
like
somebody
at
some
point,
had
a
relationship
with
brownie
newman,
but
I
can't
remember
if
that
person
that's
current
on
this
commission
or
not.
I
can't
remember
who
it
was.
K
F
And
also
julian
lennon,
he
is
everywhere.
He
knows
everybody
yokos
well,
john.
A
Well,
the
discussion
will
continue
and
I'll
I'll
update
you
all,
as
I
can
in
terms
of
any
progress
that
we
make
from
our
department
standpoint
and
trying
to
get
with
county
planning
staff
and
their
consultants,
seeing
what
we
can
do
moving
forward
to
plug
into
the
comp
plan
process.
C
I
think
there's
kind
of
two
things
that
I'm
interested
to
kind
of
figure
out
in
terms
of
what
our
next
steps
are
and
how
we
frame
the
conversation
with
people
like
nate.
You
know,
one
of
the
one
of
the
things
is
is
that
we
felt
like
in
the
engagement
that
we've
had
with
there
wasn't
adequate
opportunity
for
our
presenter
to
fully
understand
what
our
role
was
and
how
we
might
be
able
to
influence
feedback.
C
We
didn't
get
that
we
got
individual
people
with
very
little
preparation,
and
so,
as
a
body,
we
never
got
the
chance
to
say
hrc,
believes
this
and
has
these
values
that
we
think
are
important
in
consideration
for
the
comp
plan.
That's
one
and
two:
I
think
we,
you
know
we
don't
have
a
relationship
enough
with
the
county
to
even
feel
like
we
can
move
forward
and
create
value
for
the
county
in
the
first
place,
because
we
don't
have
any
funding,
we
don't
have
any
support,
and
so
there's
obviously
things
out
there.
C
Just
not
even
comp
plan
stuff
that
we're
not
getting
the
opportunity
to
do
to
sort
of
reinforce
the
value
that
we
have
to
be
able
to
to
sort
of
deeper
engage
the
comp
plan
at
all.
So
there's
really
two
things
happening
with
lousy
relationship
and
we're
not
given
a
chance
to
have
really
meaningful
feedback
towards
a
comp
plan
and
an
opportunity
to
change
the
relationship
or
to
change
the
progress
moving
forward.
And
so
I
don't
know
what
our
best
next
steps
are
alex.
Is
it
to
try
to
get?
C
A
I
think
probably
the
best
way
for
me
to
proceed
is
to
what
I
I
was
having
taught
oklahoma.
The
planning
director
could
be
here
today,
but
he
had
a
conflict.
So
what
I
told
him
I
would
do
is
I
would
come
back
to
him
with
the
summary
of
the
discussion
today
and
then
I'll
just
talk
with
him
and
shannon
about
next
steps,
because
they're
really
my
my
guides
in
this.
A
In
terms
of
how
we
proceed,
I
had
initially
planned
to
go
talk
to
nate,
just
after
I
talked
to
you
emily,
but
I
I
then
re-thought
that
and
reached
out
to
todd,
and
we
kind
of
thought
this
might
be
a
better
way
to
just
get.
A
better
sense
from
you
know
provide
some
additional
context.
So
you
kind
of
know
what.
A
A
But
I
actually
am,
you
know
in
some
ways
thankful
that
this
has
come
about
in
this
way,
because
stacy
has
been
working
on
trying.
She
was
trying
to
work
on
getting
additional
funding
for
many
years
and
then
I
came
on
board
and
then
I
was
kind
of
like
alongside
her
trying
to
do
the
same
and
she's
retiring
in
three
weeks,
which
is
so
sad.
I
don't
know
what
I'm
gonna
do
without
her
but
anyways.
A
You
know
over
the
years
she's
passed
the
torch
to
me,
and
this
is
a
torch
that
I've
tried
to
start
like
picking
up
on
my
own
the
past
two
or
three
years,
and
I
really
feel
like
this
is
an
opportunity
maybe
to
either
we
can
get
somewhere
with
it
or
maybe
it's
just
like.
We
got
to
make
it
a
different
decision
so
because
it
really
isn't
fair
that
we're
basically
subsidizing
part
of
their
preservation
program
that
if
they
don't
care
about
it,
then
what
are
we
doing
so.
M
M
You
know
and
just
trying
to
reiterate
just
starting
with
the
resolution
that
created
the
city,
council,
city
and
county
body,
and
even
that
resolution
says
there
will
be
shared
funding
responsibility
I
think
maybe
coming
at
it
from
the
planning
perspective
or
from
with
the
planning
department
over.
There
might
be
a
better
way,
especially
if
they
are
trying
to
get
this
into
the
comprehensive
plan,
but
to
will's
point.
K
M
They
might
just
look
at
and
say:
oh
most
of
the
cias
are
in
the
city,
but
the
bigger
you
do
a
lot
of
landmarks.
You
do
a
lot
of
things
and
so
just
again,
just
always
being
there
saying
this
is
this
is
a
lot
of
work
and
it
is
a
joint
committee
and
how
you
get,
who
you
get
that
information
to?
I
I
don't
know,
but
I
would
maybe
probably.
A
A
A
K
G
A
A
It
was
identified
in
the
african-american
heritage
resource
survey
as
potentially
eligible
for
listing
the
national
register,
the
national
registered
advisory
committee
agreed
or
the
historic
preservation
advisory
committee,
and
so
we
got
that
information
back,
maybe
three
years
ago
parks
our
parks
department
has
been
working
on.
They
started
working
on
engaging
the
community,
the
southside
community
many
years
ago
about
the
pool,
because
this
unfortunately,
because
the
city
had
divested
from
the
pool
it
was
kind
of
like
fallen
into
disrepair.
A
So
they
got
some
estimates
to
repair
the
pool
and
it
was
basically
determined
that
the
pool
can't
be
used
as
a
pool
anymore.
What
does
the
community
want
to
do?
Do
they
want
a
new
pool
on
the
site,
or
do
they
want
a
new
pool
at
the
granite
center,
which
is
right
down
the
street?
Well,
I
will
spare
the
details
on
the
engagement
around
that,
but
what
ultimately
ended
up
happening
is
that
the
pool
like
there
is
a
new
pool
facility
being
constructed
at
the
grand
centre.
A
I
think
the
construction
bed
just
went
out
like
maybe
three
months
three
months
ago,
two
months
ago,
something
like
that,
so
that
project
should
be
starting
soon.
The
parks
department
was
also
given
five
hundred
thousand
as
part
of
that
from
city
council
to
do
some
improvements
at
the
walton
street
park
itself.
There's
a
baseball
field,
picnic
area,
basketball,
court
on
the
site,
and
so
right
now
they're
about
to
start
engaging
the
community
again
on.
What
does
the
community
want?
What
kind
of
improvements
do
they
want
to
the
site?
A
A
Conversations
internally
about
what
national
register
designation
means
versus
landmark
designation,
we
hadn't
really
made
my
department
at
least
have
not
made
any
movement
on
kind
of
trying
to
talk.
A
The
pandemic
happened
and
we've
all
just
been
pretty
slammed
here,
so
we
just
had
other.
D
K
A
Fast
forward
to
maybe
a
couple
months
ago,
it
started
to
come
up
again
and
the
preservation
society
at
some
point
in
the
past
little
while
here
have
decided
that
they
want
to
submit
the
landmark
application,
whether
the
city
wants
the
pool
to
be
landmarked
or
not,
which
is
a
little
different
than
national
nomination.
The
property
owner
has
to
agree
with
the
landmark
designation.
A
Property
does
not
have
to
agree
just
to
have
the
application
submitted.
They
can.
Anyone
can
submit
a
landmark
application,
so
we've
kind
of
talked
we've
kind
of
got,
we've
gotten
to
a
good
place
for
our
park
staff,
in
terms
of
where
we
are
in
our
timeline.
So
the
what
we're
hopeful
is
is
so
now
that
we
have
the
landmark
application
file.
A
A
A
All
of
you
can
come
whatever
and
then
what
it's
sort
of
like
in
this
pre-application
phase,
where
they
submit
the
documentation
and
then
the
commission
makes
a
site
visit
and
then
usually
what
we
do
is
the
commission
then
makes
a
recommendation
to
the
applicant
on
whether
or
not
they
think
the
full
designation
report
is
worthy
of
pursuing
because
it
does
come
at
a
cost
to
the
applicant.
A
So
that's
really
just
more
like
we're
still
trying
to
follow
the
same
process,
even
though
we'll
have
the
full
report
so
once
the
the
the
site
visit
is
made,
then
basically
what
the
commission
then
will
come
together
in
a
meeting
at
a
regular
meeting
and
discuss
that
you
know
the
site
visit
and
and
the
application
thus
far
and
then
and
then
we'll
schedule
it
for
a
public
hearing,
because
this
is
an
unusual
situation
and
it's
a
publicly
owned
property
and
it's
an
outside
agency
submitting
an
application
versus
the
property
owner.
A
What
we
are
thinking
that
would
be
the
most
beneficial
here
is
that
we
plug
into
the
community
engagement
that
the
parks
department
is
about
to
do
for
the
park
improvements,
so
we're
hoping
that
these
two
things
can
move
along
together
because
I
feel
like
that
will
be
the
most
effective
in
terms
of
the
commission
getting
the
information
they
need
in
terms
of
whether
the
community
supports
the
landmark
designation
or
not.
Usually,
we
just
like
advertise
in
the
paper
which
no
one's
going
to
see.
A
Obviously,
we
want
to
make
sure
that
you
doesn't
feel
like
we're
doing
something
to
them
right.
We
want
to.
We
want
them
to
feel
informed
and
have
some
ownership
in
the
process,
and
so
I
think
you
know
bringing
them
along
is
gonna,
be
super
important
and
I
will
say
that,
like
once,
you
all
get
to
the
point
in
the
process
where
you
have
to
make
your
decision.
A
You
still
have
to
make
your
decision
based
on
the
criteria
set
forth
by
the
state
foreign
designation,
but
I
think,
having
the
information
like,
let's
say
the
community
says
they
don't
want
the
landmark
designation
or
they
don't
support
it
or
the
or
the
the
community
strongly
supports
that.
Then,
once
we
go
to
city
council
with
your
recommendation,
we
would
include
all
of
that
information
about
what
we
learned
from
the
community
to.
F
So
parks
department
is
reaching
out
to
the
stakeholder
community
and
we
are
listening
to
that.
A
Sorry
go
ahead,
I
was
going
to
say
what
it
will
probably
look
like
is
like
a
couple
of
community
events
where
we'll
have
a
like
an
event
in
the
park
right
where
we'll
have
like,
like
a
little
space
for
collecting
information
for
the
historic
designation.
Specifically,
I
mean
they'll
be.
B
F
I
think
they
were
talked
to
in
2018
and
and
previous
about.
So
is
this
in
addition
to
that
community
outreach
or.
K
B
K
A
It's
specifically
about
the
park
improvements
either
like
new
basketball
courts
or
walking
trail
or
whatever,
but
that
money
won't
be
that
won't
affect
the
historic
building.
There's
like
a
little
pool
building
in
the
pool
itself.
That
money
is
not
going
to
touch
that
it's
just
going
to
be
improvements
to
the
park
like
the
other
facilities
at
the
park
site,
but
we're
plugging
into
their
engagement
to
ask
them
if
they
want
us
to
landmark
the
pool
in
the
pool
house
as
part
of
this
whole
kind
of
engagement
process.
A
So
because
they're
not
they're,
not
disconnected
right,
they're,
not
exactly
the
same.
Like
sorry,
I
feel,
like
I'm
kind
of
talked
out
today,
and
so
I'm
not
articulating
myself
well,.
A
We're
engaging
them
to
ask
them.
Do
you
think
the
city
should
landmark
this
property
and
if
they
say
no,
then
that's
important
for
us
to
know.
You
know,
because
I
think
city
council
needs
to
know
that,
and
I
think
you
guys
need
to
know
that
I
don't
think
it
will.
You
know.
K
A
I
said
you
still
to
base
your
decision
on
the
criteria
for
landmark
designation,
but
I
think
you
know
you
could
potentially,
if
they
didn't.
If
the
community
doesn't
want
the
part
to
be
landmarked,
then
they
then
you
you
have
that
as
part
of
your
recommendation
like
that,
we
understand
as
a
you
know,
public
body,
that
this
is
not
what
the
community
wants.
I
don't.
C
Alex
in
the
way
the
process
works,
and
we
because
of
who
we
are
as
a
commission,
our
recommendation
is-
is
based
on
the
required
meeting
the
requirements,
the
right
for
the
application.
C
If
we
come
to
them
and
say
we
think
this
meets
their
criteria
and
we're
recommending
landmark
status
for
this
property,
and
we
also
acknowledge
that
the
community
doesn't
want
it
or
it's
cost
prohibit
like
what
other
factors
does
council
consider
in
their
designation
of
their
final
sort
of
recognition
of
that
particular
property
as
a
landmark?
So
so
do
they
weigh
all
every
factor.
All
the
factors
and
our
piece
in
terms
of
the
historic
criteria
is
one
of
those
things
that
they
consider,
or
are
they
obligated
to
the
same
criteria
that
we
are.
A
M
Emily's,
saying
landmark,
I
thought
you
were
saying
national
register.
Sorry.
A
I
skipped
over
the
park
like
so
national
register
is
still
on
the
table.
We
could
do
that.
The
only
reason
why
the
preservation
society
didn't
pursue
that
first
or
try
to
was
because
the
preservation
specialist
in
the
western
branch
office
left
and
their
offices
is
crazy,
backed
up
in
national
register
review.
A
A
C
M
And
the
way
the
landmark
process
works
is
that
it
it
will
go
to
the
city
council
and
your
question
was
I
mean
it
can't
go
to
the
city
council
unless
it
meets
the
criteria,
but
my
understanding
is,
they
can
just
say
no
for
whatever
reason
that
they
don't
have
to
approve
it
just
because
it
meets
the
criteria
for
a
landmark.
So
I
would
imagine
that
the
neighborhood's
input
of
whether
they
wanted
to
be
a
landmark
or
not
would
have
some
weight.
M
But
I
you
know
it's
difficult.
You
know
a
lot
of
times.
You
might
see
opposition
to
a
landmark
or
national
register,
because
people
think
their
property
values
are
going
to
go
up
and
it's
expensive
and
and
they're
going
to
have
to
do
things
a
certain
way
if
if
it
was
the
landmark,
but
this
is
different-
it's
city
property.
So
it's
not
going
to
be
changing
the
tax
reasons
and
I
suppose
people
might
still
view
it
as
attracting
something
to
the
neighborhood
that
could
be
gentrify
it.
A
Yeah
and
I
think,
there's
a
there's,
a
misperception-
that
preservation
means
that
it's
you're
doing
something
static
where
it
has
to
be
always
used
as
a
pool
you
know,
or
that
we're
not
going
to
do
anything
with
it,
which
is
definitely
a
fear
of
mine,
we're
not
the
most
amazing
stewards
of
historic
properties,
but
I
do
think
that
in
my
you
know,
this
is
me
being
optimistic,
and
this
is
part
of
why
I
feel
passionate
about
the
work
that
we
do
is
that
I
feel
like
this
is
a
really
amazing
opportunity
for
the
city
to
do
something
really
cool
like
to
like
in
my
mind,
I'm
like
thinking.
A
You
know
the
pool
house
itself
is
really
intact
and
it's
very
cool
site
like
it's.
It
could
become
a
community
gathering
space
in
a
totally
different
way,
but
just
retaining
those
features
and
like
parks.
They
couldn't
get
their
minds
around
like
how
do
we
keep
the
pool
from
a
public
safety
standpoint?
You
can't
tell
me
that
a
hole
in
the
ground
is
historically
important.
I'm
like
yes,
it
is
historically
important.
Imagine
if
city
hall
were
gone
and
you
just
put
up
a
market
like
it's,
not
it's,
not
architectural.
A
You
know
amazingness.
That
makes
something
historically
or
culturally
important,
but
that's
honestly,
that
is
the
part
of
the
hardest
thing.
That's
been
part
the
hardest
part
of
the
conversation
so
far
internally.
To
be
honest,
because
it's
like
just
trying
to
get
people
to
understand
that
any
type
of
historic
designation
doesn't
mean
you
can't
reimagine
how
that
space
is
used.
You
know,
in
fact
we
celebrate
that
all
the
time,
it's
just
more
so,
for
you
know,
maybe
like
a
downtown
building
versus
a
pool
and
a
pool
building.
A
So
I
see
it
as
a
really
cool
opportunity
and
I'm
excited
to
hear
what
the
community
has
to
say.
I
feel
like
it
will
be
meaningful
to
get
into
the
community
to
like
talk
with
them.
A
So
what
I
will
do
following
this
meeting
is
I'll
send
out
obviously
an
email
to
the
whole
commission
with
the
landmark
report
and
I'll
just
try
to
set
up,
maybe
like
a
doodle
poll,
to
see
if
we
can
figure
out
some
dates
to
get
onto
the
site
and
then
I'll
probably
ask
you
know,
maybe
that
we
form
a
more
formalized
subcommittee
to
move
this
along,
so
that
the
so
that
whoever
it
is
like,
maybe
at
least
a
couple
or
three
of
you
can
come
to
our
engagement
sessions
as
you're
able
to
to
hear
the
commute,
because
I
think
that,
having
face
time
with
the
commission
too,
will
be
meaningful
to
to
the
community
members,
and
just
talking
with
you,
so
does
that
sound?