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From YouTube: Historic Resources Commission
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B
B
B
Good
afternoon
I'm
chair
kite,
and
I
would
like
to
welcome
you
to
the
june
9
2021
historic
resources
commission
meeting
the
hrc
is
a
quasi-judicial
body
that
is
governed
by
the
north
carolina
general
statutes,
the
city
of
asheville's,
unified
development,
ordinance
and
buncombe
county
ordinance.
We
are
authorized
to
hear
requests
for
certificates
of
appropriateness
for
alterations,
demolitions,
new
construction
and
other
work
within
historic
districts
or
for
the
alteration
and
demolition
of
historic
landmarks
and
other
duties,
including
preliminary
review
of
subdivisions
as
specified
in
the
ordinances
for
the
hrc.
B
B
B
855-925-2801
and
entering
code
9384,
if
you
wish
to
give
public
comment,
you
can
press
star
3
during
the
item
that
you
wish
to
comment
on.
Welcome
to
those
of
you
who
are
joining
us
today,
I'm
going
to
ask
each
of
the
commission
members
who
are
participating
today
to
say
a
quick
hello,
as
I
call
each
of
your
names
just
some
reminders
about
your
microphone
on
your
computer.
E
B
D
F
B
B
B
E
B
B
And
that
motion
carries.
We
will
now
begin
the
evidentiary
hearings
for
the
items
listed
on
the
agenda
as
a
quasi-judicial
proceeding.
The
hrc
is
not
setting
policy,
nor
are
we
soliciting
public
opinion
on
the
desirability
of
an
application.
B
The
hrc
hears
and
considers
evidence
presented
and
applies
the
standards
set
forth
in
the
guidelines
and
standards
of
the
specific
historic
district
for
that
application.
The
hrc
must
make
its
decision
upon
competent
material
and
substantial
evidence
to
determine
the
facts
of
the
hearing.
The
hrc
will
use
judgment
and
discretion
to
apply
the
standards
contained
in
the
relevant
guidelines
to
the
facts.
The
commissioners,
in
voting
for
an
item
will
not
have
a
fixed
opinion.
B
Not
susceptible
to
change
will
not
have
a
conflict
of
interest
and
will
not
have
engaged
in
ex
parte
communication
regarding
the
application
rules.
For
speaking,
this
meeting
is
open
to
the
public,
but
participation
is
limited
to
interested
parties
who
wish
to
provide
comment,
or
testimony
regarding
the
proposal,
if
you
are,
will
be
speaking
as
a
witness.
Please
focus
on
the
facts
and
how
they
relate
to
the
relevant
historic
district
standards
and
guidelines,
not
personal
preference
or
opinion
witnesses
must
swear
or
affirm
their
testimony.
B
It
looks
like
we've
got
michael
romaniella
romanello
on
the
phone.
What
about
ronnie
lunsford
for
this
county.
B
A
I'm
like
pretty
sure
that
robin
and
jeff
will
be
here,
but
perhaps
not
dawn.
I
think
she
might
just
be
watching,
but
she
may
join
okay.
B
Well,
we'll
double
check
so
right
now,
it's
michael
aaron
looks
like
suzanne
dawn
and
cam.
Is
that
correct.
J
B
Oath
aloud
and
then
I'll
ask
each
of
you
individually
by
name
to
affirm
and
we'll
go
from
there.
Do
you
solemnly
swear
or
affirm
that
the
information
you
present
during
the
hearing
for
a
certificate
of
appropriateness
before
the
historic
resources
commission
shall
be
the
truth,
the
whole
truth
and
nothing
but
the
truth.
Michael.
B
J
J
J
B
All
righty,
we
will
move
to
our
first
public
hearing.
H
Procedure
please,
madam
chair,
just
you
know,
I
don't
think
somebody
can
affirm
by
text
through
somebody
else.
You
know
once
she's
got
her
mind
fixed.
We
need
to
swear
again.
B
A
Thank
you,
church
height.
Do
you?
The
second
item
needs
to
be
continued
to
july.
Do
you
all
want
to
take
care
of
that
first
or
do
you
want
me
to
present
for
90
month?
First,
no,
we
could
take
care
of
that.
H
I
B
A
All
right,
thank
you.
So
this
application,
as
you
all
will
recall,
was
under
review
at
the
last
meeting.
A
The
work
in
question
was
this:
retaining
wall
on
the
at
the
intersection
of
courtland
and
gudger,
and
you
all
approved
for
a
portion
of
this
wall
to
be
rebuilt.
At
the
last
meeting,
we
spent
part
of
the
time
discussing
the
fencing
that
goes
along
above
the
wall.
There's
a
chain-link
fence
that
travels
throughout
the
site.
A
We
spent
a
lot
of
time
talking
about
whether
the
fence
could
be
what
the
appropriate
material
type
was
and
then
also
where
the
place
most
appropriate
placement
was
based
on
some
safety
concerns
and
versus
what
the
design
standards
require.
So
the
applicant
has
changed
their.
A
I
just
included
this
site
plan
from
the
last,
the
previous
submittal
it.
If
you
can
see
where
the
the
fence,
the
fence
is
located
with
this
dash
line
with
little
circles,
I'm
sure
that's
probably
hard
to
see,
but
in
measuring
you
know
we
spent
a
lot
of
time
talking
about
how
close
the
fence
could
be
to
the
wall
based
on
the
design
standard.
That
says
it
has
to
be
set
back
by
four
feet
in
measuring
the
site
planet.
It
looks
like
in
most
places
it
complies
with
that.
A
It
is
set
back
off
the
top
of
the
wall.
There's
this
little
section
here,
where
it
kind
of
curves
around
at
the
end
of
the
parking
lot
there
where
it
gets
real
close
to
the
wall.
So
you
know,
I
think
that
that's
just
kind
of
an
anomaly
there
that
I
don't
think
will
be
an
issue.
I
don't
know
how
that
you
know
whether
that
will
cause
an
issue
in
terms
of
how
the
anc
how
the
fence
needs
to
be
angled
in
that
spot.
A
But
I
think,
generally
speaking,
I
don't
have
any
concerns
about
what
they're
proposing
at
this
point,
except
for
they
did
submit
a
new,
a
new
fence,
rendering
which
is
here
on
the
top
left
and
I've
included
on
the
bottom
right,
an
image
that
shows
a
a
metal
picket
fence
that
was
impro
approved
within
the
last
three
or
four
years
by
the
commission.
That
I
feel
like
is
you
know,
more
appropriate
style,
because
the
pickets
break
the
the
plane
of
the
the
top
rail.
A
I
can't
think
of
any
that
the
commission
has
approved
where
you
know
the
the
pickets
met
the
top
rail
for
for
a
metal
fence,
but
just
a
little
detail
that
I
wanted
to
pull
out
for
discussion
today,
but
other
than
that.
I
really
don't
have
any
issue
again.
A
I
think
that
the
defense
is
set
back
far
enough
from
the
wall,
based
on
that
original
site
plan
that
that
shouldn't
be
a
problem,
and
I
don't-
I
think
I
was
talking
about
vegetative
screening
at
the
last
meeting,
and
I
understand
that
from
a
maintenance
standpoint.
That
really
is
not
very
practical.
So
unless
you
all
have
an
opinion
about
that,
I
did
not
list
that
out
as
something
I
thought
they
should.
B
Any
questions
for
alex
michael
is
there
any
additional
information
you'd
like
to
be
able
to
provide
to
the
commissioners.
K
K
For
the
city
most
of
the
wall
is
along
the
parking
lot
drive,
so
the
drought
to
the
direction
of
travel
is
parallel
to
the
wall
and
therefore
does
not
need
to
double
as
a
vehicular
barrier
for
those
couple
spots
there.
The
only
thing
left
to
decide
is
whether
we
want
to
there's
the
curb
there.
Obviously,
whether
we
need
to
add
a
couple
curb
vehicle
like
parking
blocks,
which
would
be
very
low
to
the
ground.
K
I
don't
think
would
be
any
kind
of
issue
in
terms
of
visualization
or
whatever
for
for
the
hrc
to
consider,
but
that's
the
only
detail
left
to
work
out.
D
D
Sorry,
madam
chair,
I
was
taking
minutes.
We
do
not
have
any
callers
in
the
queue.
M
Quick
question
before
we
do
vice
chair,
mr
price,
chair,
the
the
vegetation
is
the
newbie
question.
Sorry
is
vegetation
commonly
required
in
in
these
proposals
that
we
we
approve.
M
A
I
wasn't
suggesting
that
we
that
the
commission
would
be
making
an
exception
based
on
their
the
organization
type,
my
suggestion
that
they
not
be
required
to
have
have
vegetation.
There
is
from
a
maintenance
standpoint,
because
the
wall
is
so
tall
and
getting
around
there
to
maintain,
and
you
all
talked
about
the
safety
issues
of
being
between
the
wall
and
the
and
the
fencing,
and
so
that
was
you
know
my
where
I
landed
on.
A
That
was
that
perhaps
the
the
screening,
the
vegetative
screening,
wasn't
practical
in
this
kind
of
limited
circumstance,
because
it's
kind
of
an
odd
situation
where
the
wall
is
too
tall.
You
know,
having
being
able
to
maintain,
it
would
be
a
little
bit
of
a
challenge,
but
you
know
if
the
commission
feels
differently,
then
by
all
means
requires
screening,
because
that's
generally,
the
way
that
fences
are
treated
is
that
they're
discouraged
in
the
district
and
it
creates
a
visual
boundary
where
one
didn't
previously
exist.
A
The
the
historic
character
of
montford
as
far
as
the
landscape
goes
is
like
this
very
kind
of
naturalized
environment.
So
you
know,
screening
with
vegetation
is
often
a
way
to
kind
of.
You
know
allow
for
a
fence
in
a
in
a
situation
where
one
is
needed,
but
to
kind
of
soften
its
appearance
within
the
landscape.
So
that's
that's
typically,
why
it's
why
it's
required,
but
I
wasn't
saying
that
it
was
for
the
purpose
of
you
know
it's
buncombe
county:
let's
give
them
a
pass
so.
B
And
alex
to
clarify
the
the
requirement
is
for
the
screening
to
be
between
the
front
face
of
the
wall
and
the
fence
not
looking
at
it
from
the
parking
lot
side
at
the
top
of
the
wall,
and
so
I
think
that's
for
me.
The
concern
that
I
have
is
any
kind
of
maintenance.
That's
required
is
going
to
make
someone
have
to
stand
on
the
edge
of
this
wall.
B
That's
you
know
10
or
more
feet
above
the
sidewalk
and
and
maintain
or
plant
those
things
on
an
ongoing
basis,
and
it
also
feels
to
me
from
just
the
public
side
experience
that
you're
not
ever
really
sort
of
looking
like
it's
not
driving
down
cumberland
avenue,
with
a
low
to
three
foot
wall
on
a
fence
in
someone's
front
yard,
in
the
way
that
the
public
experiences
that
space,
it's
a
pretty
narrow
road
with
a
very
tall
retaining
wall
and
a
pedestrian.
B
That's
walking
on
that
sidewalk
is
gonna,
really
that's
outside
of
their
sort
of
sight
line
to
be
seeing
that
wall
from
the
from
the
sidewalk
level
in
the
first
place,
and
so
I
think
that
is,
I
think,
a
little
bit.
You
know
if
you've
been
to
the
site,
it
feels
like
you
want
to
screen
the
fence
from
the
parking
lot,
not
really
what
the
what
the
perspective
is
that
the
that
the
guidelines
are
speaking
to,
I
think
is
there
is
the
question:
is
the
real
shift
there
in
my
thinking?
B
B
K
Yeah,
I'm
sure
I'm
sure
the
owner
would
be
open
to
that.
Whatever
is
required.
We
kind
of
just
started
with
the
the
basic
metal
picture,
considering
we
were
replacing
a
chain
link,
but
that
is
more
in
line
with
with.
B
And
alex
is
that
something
that
they
could
follow
up
with
staff
on
a
final
elevation,
drawing
like
the
one
that
they've
submitted
already.
H
Are
they
ready
to
make
a
motion?
Madam
chair,
based
upon
the
evidence
presented
to
this
commission,
including
exhibit
a
project
description
and
photographs?
11
pages
exhibit
b
site
plan,
exhibit
c
fence
drawing
and
the
commission's
actual
inspection
and
review
of
subject
property
by
all
members,
except
I
moved
that
this
commission
approved
the
certificate
of
appropriateness
based
on
the
following
one
that
the
application
is
to
amend
previously
approved
ca
to
include
replacement
of
existing
chain
link
fence
with
a
four
foot
tall,
metal,
picket
fence.
H
H
H
E
B
Commissioner
gardner
hi
commissioner
hornaday
aye
commissioner
lazarus
aye
commissioner
oliva.
I
commissioner
vaughn.
H
Based
upon
the
foregoing
findings
and
for
the
reasons
set
forth
therein,
I
move
that
a
certificate
of
appropriateness
be
issued
with
the
following
condition:
that
applicant
submit
revised
fence,
drawings,
meeting
the
conditions
and
approval
of
staff.
E
B
E
A
Thank
you,
chair
kite,
michael.
I
will
follow
up
with
you
in
the
next
few
days
or
so
about
next
steps.
A
A
A
The
applicant
has,
since
worked
with
his
clients,
to
revise
the
the
siding
material
proposed
so
now
they're
proposing
a
fiber
cement
lab
siding
with
shake
siding
in
the
gable
end,
and
so
this
is
the
the
iteration
on
this
slide,
and
then
the
architect
also
sent
this
to
me
today,
which
is
really
helpful.
He
took
some
pictures
of
some
other
houses
nearby
houses
that
should
we
talked
on
the
phone
yesterday
and
I
was
a
little
bit
unsure
about
having
it
be
entirely
lapsiding
and
not
breaking
the
two
floors
into
different
types
of
siding.
A
That's
really
typical
in
the
district,
but
his
clients
didn't
really
want
to
do
that,
and
so
he
unearthed
some
examples
of
other
houses
in
the
district
that
have
solely
lap
siding.
These
are
all
kind
of
nearby
to
cumberland
circle,
and
so
I
think
it
helps
kind
of
it
helped
alleviate
some
of
my
initial
concern
about
that
and
I
have
not
noted
any
concern
about
the
the
design
of
the
house
itself,
except
for
they
are
proposing
lp
an
lp
material.
A
That's
a
smart
shake
sighting
in
the
in
the
gable
ends,
and
that
is
not
a
material
that
the
commission
has
approved
before
and
without
seeing
a
physical
sample.
I
have
a
little
bit
of
hesitation
around
that
actually
recently
on
the
I'm
part
of
the
the
preservation
commission
listserv
for
north
carolina,
and
there
were
it's
a
it's
a
space
where
a
lot
of
different
preservation,
planners
and
other
professionals
network
and
ask
questions,
and
one
of
the
more
recent
questions
was
about
lp
sighting.
A
It
was
about
lap
siting,
but
it
was
about
asking
do
any
other
municipalities
allow
this.
It
doesn't
seem
to
cast
the
same
shadow
as
a
fiber
cement
siding
does
now.
I
don't
know
if
that's
true
for
the
the
shake
siding,
so
my
preference
would
be
that
if
you
all
approve
that
approve
it,
as
is
that
they
submit
a
physical
sample
to
our
office,
so
that
staff
can
can
verify
that
it's
consistent
with
other
products
that
the
commission
has
approved
in
the
past.
A
So
that
would
be
one
note
on
the
building
itself
and
then
I
it's
still
in
my
staff
report.
But
since
writing
my
staff
report,
the
the
architect,
has
sent
me
a
revised
landscaping
plan
which
shows
some
additional
additional
foundation
plantings
in
the
front
as
well
as
another
tree
in
the
front,
and
I
cut
it
off.
But
there
are
two
new
small
maturing
trees
along
the
driveway
here
to
provide
some
screening
for
the
for
the
driveway,
in
accordance
with
the
with
the
requirements
of
the
standards.
A
There's
still
some
miscellaneous
items
that
I
asked
for
in
my
list,
the
the
rear
elevation
door
specifications
have
been
added
to
the
to
the
folder.
So
we're
okay
on
that,
as
well
as
the
driveway
edging
material.
A
The
stone
sample
for
the
wall,
lighting
and
mechanical
are
still
outstanding.
So
those
are
all
conditions
that
staff
can
review.
So
those
are
those
are
really
my
notes
as
far
as
where
we
are
from
the
last
meeting
and
I'm
happy
to
answer
any
questions,
if
you
all
have
any.
A
A
Say
yeah
that
I
just
would
prefer
to
make
sure
that
it's
or
you
know
want
to
verify
that
it's
consistent
with
fiber
cement,
citing
that
the
commission
has
a
pre,
because
the
commission
has
approved,
I
think,
even
in
the
last
meeting
or
the
two
meetings
ago,
there
was
a
and
I'm
gonna
botch
the
the
brand.
A
But
it's
I
think
it's
like
machiha
or
something
like
that,
where
you
all
approved
a
shake
sighting
and
there
have
been
other
products
approved
in
the
past
that
were
that
were
synthetic
shake
sighting,
and
I
just
want
to
verify
that
it's
similar
to
those
products,
especially
because
I'm
aware
of
the
conversation
and
other
municipalities
that
they
have
not
allowed
for
lp
smart
siding
in
their
district.
M
A
No,
it's
a
fiber
cement
siding
and
though
it's
a
six
inch
reveal
okay,
which
is
well
within
what
the
commission
I
think,
is.
I
think,
the
max
that
the
commission
has
allowed
us
six
and
a
quarter
inch
so.
F
Go
ahead,
yeah
alex
there's
no
need
for
a
side
railing
on
that
front.
Porch
with
that
drop
off
is
it
is
that
not
it's
not
a
big
deal.
J
K
A
L
A
I
I
Yes,
thank
you.
I
so
just
to
clarify
the
the
siding
material.
Is
the
lp
lap
siding,
so
we
can
provide
a
sample
of
that
as
well.
It
would
be
the
smooth
version,
not
the
textured
version,
the
shakes
that
lp
has
do
not
come
in
a
smooth.
They
only
do
the
cedar
texture,
so
we
will.
We
will
get
a
sample
of
that
we're
also
fairly
flexible.
I
mean
we
could
change
to
a
niche
hot
or
a
hardy.
If
that
was
preferred,
I
don't
think
that
would
be
an
issue.
I
It's
it's
some,
it's
it's
more
of
a
builder
preference
honestly
that
that
particular
manufacturer.
So
I
don't
think
it
would
be
a
problem
to
change
it,
but
I'd
I'd
be
happy
to
get
samples
of
it.
I'd
actually
like
to
see
just
get
a
sample
in
my
hands
anyway,
so
that's
something
something
that
we
can
do.
I
And
then
we,
you
know
we
made
changes
to
the
we.
We
did
make
changes
to
the
material
palette
on
the
exterior
and
I'm
happy
to
answer
any
questions
about
that.
B
Alec
alex
it
looks
like
you
have
a
note
in
your
staff
report
about
additional
landscaping.
We
haven't
talked,
I
think,
a
great
deal
about
the
landscaping,
certainly
either
last
month
or
this
month,
I'm
wondering
if
that
has
been
addressed
already
alex
or
if
that's
something
that
would
still
end
up
in
a
condition.
A
B
Landscaping
and
you've
got
a
list
of
other
product
specifications
that
you're
looking
for
in
materials
in
your
staff
report
as
well.
A
B
Plus
the
siding
samples
right
right.
H
Isn't,
madam
chairman,
based
upon
the
evidence
presented
to
this
commission,
including
exhibit
a
new
construction,
worksheet
streetscape,
rendering
site
plan
floor
plans,
elevation,
drawings
and
perspective
renderings
18
pages
exhibit
b
window
specifications,
five
pages
received,
may
12
2021
exhibit
c
revised
drawings
and
plans.
Eight
pages
received,
may
26
2021
exhibit
d
revised
new
construction,
worksheet
and
specifications
22
pages
received,
may
26
2021
exhibit
e
context.
Images
received
june
8th
2021,
exhibit
f
architects,
photographs
of
nearby
houses.
Do
we
have
an
exhibit
g.
H
Okay,
in
the
commission's
actual
expense,
inspection
and
review
of
subject
property
by
all
members,
except
I
remember.
I
moved
that
this
commission
approved
the
certificate
of
appropriateness
based
on
the
following
one,
that
the
application
is
to
construct
a
two-story
3268
square
foot.
Primary
structure
with
superior
wall
foundation
finished
with
stucco
smooth
fiber
cement
lap
siding
with
six
inch
reveal
smooth
fiber
cement,
shake
siding
and
iko
asphalt.
Shingle
roof
then
weathered
wood
color
front.
Porch
will
have
8
by
8
wood
support
posts,
wood
tongue
and
groove
flooring
and
ceiling
wood
steps
and
painted
square
wood.
H
Lattice
between
piers
windows
will
be
black.
Sierra
pacific
sdl
two
over
one
double
hung:
aluminum
clad
an
sdl
two
light
aluminum,
clad
casement
doors
will
be
rogue
valley,
wood
panel
with
single
light,
a
17.5
foot
times,
14.6
foot,
screened,
porch
and
19.5
times.
Five
foot
nine
and
a
half
inch
deck
with
wood
railing
with
two
inch
by
two
inch
pickets
spaced
four
inches
on
center
will
extend
from
rear
elevation
area
below
portion
deck
will
be
paved
with
concrete
construct.
A
12
foot
wide
dark,
gravel
driveway
with
12
foot,
wide,
concrete
apron
and
rear
yard.
H
Connecting
with
cobble
street
to
a
19
foot
wide
dark,
gravel
parking
area
adjacent
to
rear
elevation,
driveway
will
be
edged
with
metal
construct,
a
61
foot
long
stucco
retaining
wall
with
stone.
Cap
adjacent
to
south
end
of
driveway
construct
a
four
foot
wide
concrete
walkway
from
cumberland
circle
to
porch
to
front
entry,
porch,
remove
eight
mature
trees
to
accommodate
construction.
H
One
mechanical
unit
will
be
installed
adjacent
to
south
elevation
foundation,
plantings
and
maturing
trees
from
the
montford
recommended
species
list
will
be
planted.
Ground
cover
must
be
established
within
15
days
of
completion
of
construction,
and
the
remainder
of
the
landscaping
must
be
installed
within
three
years
of
approval.
H
H
Two
that
the
standards
for
new
construction,
primary
structures
found
in
pages
92
to
93
walkways
driveways
and
off
street
parking
on
pages
50
to
51
landscaping
and
trees
on
pages
40-41
fences
and
walls
and
pages
36-37
decks
on
pages,
38-39
utilities
and
mechanical
systems
on
pages
82-83
lighting
on
pages,
42-43
and
archaeology.
On
pages
32-33
in
the
montford
historic
district
design
review
standards
adopted
on
april
14,
2010
and
amended
december
9
2019
were
used
to
evaluate
this
request.
H
The
step
3.
This
application
does
meet
the
design
standards
for
the
following
reasons.
A
new
primary
structure
is
cited
so
that
it
is
similar
to
the
historic
pattern
in
terms
of
orientation
setback,
retention
of
green
space
and
spacing
between
structures
b.
New
primary
structure
is
designed
so
that
the
overall
character
of
the
adjacent,
streetscape
and
building
site
is
maintained.
H
C,
new
primary
structure
is
compatible
in
height
group
form,
scale,
matching
footprint,
material,
detail,
fenestration
and
proportion
with
surrounding
historic
buildings
and
other
historic
buildings
in
the
district
d,
location
and
size
of
window
and
door.
Openings
are
compatible
in
placement
orientation,
spacing
proportion,
size
and
scale
with
surrounding
historic
buildings.
H
E
materials
and
finishes
are
typical
of
those
found
in
the
district.
F.
Dec
will
be
located
on
the
rear,
elevation
and
inset
from
the
rear,
building
corners
new
walkways
and
retaining
walls
will
be
compatible
with
the
site
and
district
in
terms
of
dimension
configuration
materials,
color
and
texture.
H
Each
new
driveway
parking
area
will
be
dark,
colored,
gravel
and
located
in
the
rear
yard.
I
mechanical
unit
will
be
located
on
the
side,
elevation
and
screened
with
planets,
four,
that
the
action
and
improvements
proposed
and
the
application
before
us
for
a
certificate
of
appropriateness
are
congruent
with
the
special
historic
character
of
the
montford
historic
district.
B
B
Commissioner,
west
hi
myself,
I
as
well
that
motion
carries.
H
Subject
to
the
approval
of
staff,
two
that
the
applicant
submit
is
a
stone
sample
for
the
retaining
wall
cap
to
the
for
the
approval
and
stamp
three
that
the
applicant
submit
lighting
specifications
for
the
approval
of
staff
and
four
that
the
applicant
submit
mechanical
unit
specifications
for
the
approval.
Instead,
anything
else.
E
B
E
A
So
just
for
context,
this
is
the
gis
map
showing
where
the
subject
property
is
located.
It's
at
the
corner
of
cumberland
and
west
chestnut
street.
Hopefully
you
all
had
an
opportunity
to
visit
the
site
I
did.
A
I
did
go
by
and
take
some
additional
photos
of
the
building
today
that
I
added
to
the
folder
in
case
anybody
needs
those
and
I'm
happy
to
pull
up
there's.
There
are
obviously
a
lot
of
documents
in
this
application,
so
I
I
made
my
slide
presentation
really
brief.
So
if
there's
anything
that
I
can
pull
up
during
our
discussion,
please
let
me
know:
let's
see.
A
Somewhere,
all
right,
so
this
is
the
existing
building.
That's
on
the
site.
It's
a
mid-century
building
it
was
built
in
the
1950s.
The
the
site
is
about.
Let's
see,
let's
go
back
to
the
first
slide.
You
can
see
the
building
on
the
right,
so
it
takes
up
about
a
third
of
this
lot.
It's
pretty
big.
The
the
lot
itself
is
pretty
big.
This
building
has
traditionally
been
used
as
a
church.
Historically,
it
was
a
church.
I
believe
it
was
a
baptist
church
when
it
was
first
constructed.
A
So
the
the
plan
is
to
convert
it
to
a
new
residential
use.
I
believe
there
would
be
12
new
units,
sorry
12
new
units
and
so
they're,
proposing
some
modifications
to
accommodate
the
new
use
and
what
you're
seeing
on
the
screen
I'll
just
go
through
kind
of
what
I've
listed
out.
As
my
concerns.
A
So
the
first
one
I've
noted
are
the
proposed
balconies.
So
if
you're
looking
at
the
the
the
rendering
on
the
bottom
right
is
looking
at
the
building
from
chestnut
street,
what
that
you
would
typically
think
of
as
the
front
it's
got
the
front
entrance
on
it.
A
So
the
the
changes
to
this
elevation
are
really
minimal.
They're,
proposing
to
change
this
little
to
replace
this
little,
this
little
roof
overhang
over
the
front
entry
and
replace
the
doors
that
the
doors
aren't
original
anyway.
A
So
this
would
be
a
new
aluminum,
storefront
or
with
side
lights,
and
then
the
windows
are
predominantly
vinyl
that
and
we
don't
know
what
the
original
window
material
was
so
they're
proposing
to
replace
all
the
windows
in
the
building
with
aluminum
clad
and,
as
you
can
see,
on
the
the
other
renderings
that
there
are
balconies
proposed
this.
The
top
left,
that
is,
the
east
elevation
and
that's
facing
the
little
this
little
unnamed
alley.
That's
behind
runs
behind
the
building,
and
then
this
is
the
elevation.
A
A
So
when
I
first
met
with
the
architects
to
talk
up
through
the
project,
I
we
talked,
they
had
an
iteration
that
was,
the
balconies
were
designed
a
little
bit
differently
that
and
I
can't
recall
exactly
how
they
were,
but
they
did
in
it
my
suggestion
they
changed
it
to
have
the
the
support
post
and
be
kind
of
more
like
a
traditional
looking
balcony.
A
In
this.
Since
it's
been
rendered,
I
have
kind
of
developed
some
concerns
about
the
balconies.
The.
I
think
that
the
you
know
material
is
not
necessarily
of
issue
to
me
they're
proposing,
for,
I
believe,
for
the
materials
or
metal,
railings
and
posts,
and
then
there's
a
shed.
The
shed
roofs
are
also
metal.
A
I
I
I
think
perhaps
I
could
get
behind
supporting
balconies
on
the
east
elevation,
since
it's
not
a
primary
right
of
way-
and
I
understand
that
you
know
when
this
building
is
habitated
by
you-
know
people
living
in
the
in
the
building
that
they
would
want
to
have
some
type
of
outdoor
space
to
enjoy.
A
A
A
I
think
it
looks
a
little
bit
funky
with
the
first
or
the
you
know
the
first
floor,
where
the
the
support
post
is
intersecting
the
window
below,
and
you
know
there,
as
I
talked
with
one
of
the
architects
today
that
you
know
there
are
historic
examples
of
multi-family
buildings
that
have
have
balconies,
but
they
are
kind
of
more
incorporated
into
the
architectural
style,
whereas
these
are
feel
more
applied
in
some
ways.
A
So
I'll
be
interested
to
hear
your
thoughts
on
that.
So
that's
the
first
piece,
the
second
piece
that
is
definitely
giving
me
some
pause
is
the
is
proposing
to
paint
the
masonry.
I
don't
think
so.
If
you're
looking
at
the
building
from
cumberland
the
section
that
looks
a
little
bit
lighter
in
this
in
the
bottom
left
rendering
that
is
actually
concrete
block
and
it's
painted
and
it's
not
beautiful,
it
is
so
the
the
portion
to
the
left
and
to
the
right
where
you
can
see
the
kind
of
like
brick
motif.
A
That's
one
of
the
you
know
most
interesting
qualities
about
the
building,
those
that's
kind
of
like
a,
I
would
say,
medium
red,
it's
kind
of
an
orangey
red
brick,
and
so
this
the
area
between
where
it's
the
concrete
block
has
been
painted
to
be
a
similar
color.
If
you
will,
it
is
definitely
not
very
attractive,
and
so
the
proposal
involves
painting
the
entire
building.
I
did.
A
I
did
some
homework
on
mid-century
architecture,
and
you
know
brick
has
obviously
been
a
material
that
we've
seen
that
we've
used
not
utilized
on
architecture
for
many
years,
but
just
in
in
thinking
through
the
kind
of
intentionality
around
using
specific
materials.
There's,
definitely
some
information
floating
around
out
there
about
mid-century
buildings
and
how
brick
was
kind
of
one
of
those
choices
that
was
made
because
it
was.
A
It
was
just
kind
of
have
this
industrial
minimal,
feel
and
was
used
intentionally,
and
I
think
that
too
that
painting
the
brick
generally
we
discourage
painting
of
any
masonry
surface
on
a
historic
building.
That's
previously
unpainted,
regardless
of
what
era
the
building
is
in
part,
because
it's
not
great
for
the
building
envelope,
the
brick,
it's
not
great
for
the
brick
itself,
but
I
also
to
think
that
then
you
start
to
lose
these
little.
A
The
little
brick
motif
a
little
bit
and
the
building
feels
really
heavy
for
the
site
and
kind
of
the
surrounding.
You
know
more.
You
know
single
family
or
residential
style
buildings,
so
I
am
not
supportive
of
painting
the
building.
I
asked
for
someone.
There
are
also
proposing
a
roof:
a
roof
deck.
Let
me
pull
up
the
sorry.
I
was
putting
together
my
my
my
presentation
pretty
last
minute
today.
Let
me
just
pull
up
the
rest
of
the
document,
so
we
can
look
at
the
the
roof
deck.
That's.
A
Okay,
so
this
gives
you
a
better
idea.
This
is
looking
at
the
front
of
the
building,
so
they
need
to
add
this
a
stair
tower
here
to
access
the
roof
and
then
what
you're
seeing
is
a
metal
railing
and
some
planters
that
go
around
a
seating
area,
and
then
this
shade
sail
above.
A
A
If
you're
you
know,
standing
far
back
from
the
building,
if
you're
standing
right
here
or
possibly,
possibly
even
on
the
other
side
of
the
street,
I
don't
think
this
will
be
highly
visible.
I'm
going
to
leave
it
to
the
applicant,
though,
to
make
their
case
as
to
you
know
this
fitting
in
with
the
district.
A
A
A
This
is
looking
at
the
building
from
the
cumberland
avenue
side.
One
of
the
other
things
I
noted
was
you
can
see
in
front
of
that
seating
area.
It's
probably
hard
for
you
to
see,
but
there
are
three
little.
There
are
three
mechanical
units.
Typically,
we
require
mechanical
units
to
be
screened,
so
I
asked
if
those
could
be
moved
or
how
they
would
be
screened
from
vue.
A
A
I
suggested
that
perhaps
stucco
would
be
a
better
siding
material
for
that
feature,
since
the
rest
of
the
building
is
masonry,
and
I
also
suggested
as
far
as
the
concrete
block
goes-
that's
on
that
sidewall
that
they
could
potentially
stucco
that
if,
if
that
would
be,
I'm
not
sure
that
would
make
it
look
better,
except
for
from
a
surface
treatment
but
from
a
color
issue
that
may
not
this
that
still
may
not
solve
what
they're
after
and
just
going
around
the
building.
A
And
this
is
from
the
back,
where
you
really
won't
see
it.
I
think
I
noted,
on
the
go
to
go
back
to
my
slide
presentation.
A
They've
got
to
modify
this
side
of
the
the
side
of
the
street
right
here,
where
the
sidewalk
is
to
accommodate
this
new
driveway
entrance
for
the
updated
parking
area.
That
is
one
thing
that
I
think
is
great
about
this
project
is
it
you
know,
has
this
huge
gravel
lot
here?
That
then
becomes
this
gravel
lot,
that's
smaller
and
because
they
have
open
space
requirements,
this
will
all
be
reverted
back
to
landscaping
and
so
we'll
definitely
soften
it
from
the
street
on
that
side,
so
I've
asked
them
to.
A
You
know
let
the
city
come
and
get
it
if
we
need
to
or
whatever,
if
it
can't
be
reused,
so
that
it
can
be
reused
somewhere
else
and
then
just
to
note,
there's
a
new
retaining
wall
that
will
need
to
go
here.
A
But
I
honestly,
I
think
if
it
were
brick,
it
would
be
more
noticeable
and
they're
planning
to
plant
a
bunch
of
landscaping
in
front
of
it.
So
it's
a
it's
like
varies
in
height,
but
I
think
this
tallest
will
be
about
nine
feet,
but
because
of
that
we're
back
to
the
issue
we
were
at
with
the
previous
application,
where
there
will
need
to
be
a
fence
above
the
wall,
and
so
I
we
don't
have
a
rendering
of
what
that
will
look
like
yet
so
that
has
been
requested.
A
And
this
project
will
require
level
level,
one
review
by
our
development
services
department.
So
I
have
made
a
note
on
my
staff
report
that
if
that
should
also
be
a
condition
that
that,
if
changes
are
required
during
that
level,
one
review
that
hrc
staff
is
made
aware
so
that
we
can
give
feedback
to
the
applicant
on
whether
or
not
the
commission
or
staff
needs
to
review
the
changes
and
then
below
that
I've
listed
out
the
all
the
little
all
the
little
nitty-gritty
details
of
things
that
are
outstanding.
A
B
I
see
some
head
nodding
does
the
applicant,
I
guess
suit.
We've
got
suzanne
dawn
and
cam
here
has
robin
and
jeff
joined
us.
Are
they
planning
to
join
us?
It
looks
like
they're
here,
okay,
I
think
maybe
we'll
take
a
quick
pause
to
swear
them
in
robin
and
jeff,
and
then
we
can.
Let
y'all
speak
to
any
kind
of
additional
information.
You'd
like
the
commission
to
consider
robin
and
jeff
I'll,
read
the
oath
and
then
I'll
ask
you
each
individually
by
name
to
affirm
when
I'm
done
reading.
B
That's
got
everybody
and
I'll
open
the
floor
to
the
five
of
you
to
provide
any
additional
information.
You'd
like
us
to
consider.
P
Okay,
I
thank
you
alex
for
running
through
the
project.
We
were
going
to
start
with
the
site
design.
So
suzanne
do
you
want
to
go
first.
Q
Absolutely
hi
everybody,
I'm
suzanne
godsey
with
site
work
studios.
I'm
happy
to
be
here
today
to
talk
to
you
about
this
project.
I
don't
know
who
is
driving
the
presentation
alex
is
that
you
do
you
have
our
existing
conditions
and
demolition
plan
that
you
could
pull
up.
A
Q
So
I
just
wanted
to
point
out
a
couple
of
existing
features
that
we
are
removing
on
site.
I
know
that
alex
had
made
a
comment
in
regards
to
the
size
of
the
trees
that
we're
taking
out
and
give
you
a
little
explanation
as
to
why
we're
proposing
to
remove
those.
The
first
street
tree
that
we're
proposing
to
remove
is
obviously
where
we're
going
to
be
putting
our
new
compliant
driveway
apron.
So
that
is
a
an
existing
redbud.
Q
Q
They
were
just
very
popular
at
one
point
in
time,
and
people
put
them
in
and
they
were
small
little
christmas
trees
and
they
never
really
consider
how
large
they'd
get
so
we're
proposing
to
remove
that
one
and
then
to
the
north
as
you're
heading
to
the
unnamed
alley.
That
last
tree,
that
we're
posing
to
remove
is
a
dogwood,
which
I
would
normally
want
to
keep.
However,
this
one,
for
some
reason
has
been.
Q
Horribly
pruned-
and
it
just
doesn't-
have
a
good
look
to
it,
so
we
have
to
replace
a
lot
of
plant
material
for
zoning
compliance
and
so
we'll
be
replacing
that
with
another
dogwood.
So
those
are
the
trees
that
we're
removing.
We
are
keeping
the
other
two
street
trees
that
exist
on
the
site,
one
another
red
bud
and
the
other
is
a
maple,
so
those
trees
are
staying.
Q
The
other
features
that
we're
removing
on
the
site.
Obviously
the
existing
sign
and
some
sidewalk
some
of
the
the
existing
brick
wall
that
alex
mentioned
is
failing.
So
we're
going
to
be
removing
that
as
well.
It
is
starting
to
have
some
failures
and
associated
with
that
is
some
of
the
ramping
and
the
wood
decking.
That
gives
you
access
to
the
varying
levels
in
the
building.
So
that's
the
existing
conditions
plan.
If
you
want
to
go
to
the
site
plan
alex,
please.
Q
So
on
our
site,
like
alex,
was
mentioning.
We
do
have
to
have
a
considerable
amount
of
open
space,
and
so
we
strategically
put
that
at
the
intersection
that
really
preserves
that
park-like
feel,
which
is
what
you
kind
of
get
when
you
go
out
to
the
site,
which
I
really
like
that
we're
able
to
keep
that
we're
also
being
able
to
provide
some.
You
know
on-site
parking
and
not
trying
to
balance
our
parking.
You
know
on
street,
which
is,
I
know,
an
issue
in
montford.
Q
So
we've
got
this
nice
gravel
parking
lot
that
will
be
identified
with
handicapped
parking.
Space
will
be
concrete,
we're
just
proposing
just
regular
colored,
gravel
and
those
are
concrete
wheel
stops,
which
alex
had
mentioned
that
we
clarify
the
material
for
those.
So
those
would
just
be
just
your
standard.
Concrete
wheel
stops,
so
we've
got
ada
compliance
issues
that
we're
addressing
and
we
are
creating
this
handicap
that
handicap
space
in
the
front,
some
new
sidewalk
to
get
you
to
the
side
door
that
is
facing
on
to
cumberland.
Q
As
this
parking
lot
is
pushing
into
the
site
we
are
going
to
have
to
build,
a
retaining
wall
like
alex,
was
mentioning
it's
a
maximum
height
of
nine
feet,
but
that's
only
for
a
small
portion
we're
proposing
for
that
to
be
concrete,
and
we
are
proposing
to
place
the
railing
inside
of
that
wall,
so
it
will
be
mounted
on
top
of
the
wall,
and
the
thought
with
that
is
is
that
we
are
getting
close
to
that
property
line
and
because
this
is
considered
by
code,
a
pedestrian
guardrail,
providing
any
space
for
people
to
walk
between
the
wall
and
the
railing
is
a
safety
issue.
Q
So
that
is
why
we
have
a
proposed
where
it
is.
Let's
see,
we've
got
a
maintenance
enclosure
area
which
is
going
to
hold
our
rollouts
for
trash
and
recycling,
and
we've
got
some
materials
that
we
can
flip
to
in
a
minute
with
a
gate
that
is
running
along
the
sidewalk
by
the
parking
lot.
Trying
to
think
that's
pretty
much
all
of
the
site
features
to
mention
if
you
want
to
scroll
to
landscape
plan,
bringing
the
site
into
compliance
requires
quite
a
bit
of
landscape.
Q
This
is
what
it
requires,
so
we
have
met
or
exceeded
the
ordinance
and
and
what
they
require.
We've
got
our
appropriate
street
trees
and
building
impact
landscaping
and
parking
lot
landscaping,
we're
landscaping
the
base
of
that
retaining
wall
with
winter
jasmine
and
then
we're
proposing
to
plant
boston
ivy
to
grow
up
it.
So
it
will
look
pretty
good
within
two
years
time
with
that
ivy
growing
on
it
and
it'll
give
you
know
three
seasons
of
really
great
interest
along
that
wall.
Q
Mention
we
do
so
for
our
level,
one
review
and
for
for
the
zoning
compliance
for
landscaping,
we
are
going
to
be
required
to
go
for
alternative
compliance
because
the
existing
building
is
inside
of
the
required
buffer,
and
so
what
we
have
here
is
our
equal
to
or
better
than
landscape
plan,
in
order
to
meet
alternative
compliance
which
we'll
have
to
go
to
the
urban
forestry
commission
for
that,
and
so
that
will
be
a
part
of
our
level.
One
review
process
alex
if
you
want
to
scroll
down
to
the
images.
Q
So
these
are
a
couple
of
the
hardscape
materials.
This
is
a
parking
lot
light
that
duke
has,
I
suspect,
we'll
have
two
we
haven't
had
them
run
the
photometrics
on
that,
but
they're
12
feet
tall.
We've
used
these
on
other
projects
in
montford.
Before
this
is
a
city
standard,
very
simple
bike,
rack
I'll
be
painted
black,
it's
shown
on
the
site
plan.
Q
This
is
an
example
of
a
concrete
retaining
wall
with
the
boston
ivy
growing
on
it,
which
I
think
looks
really
nice
and
then
our
trash
enclosure
is
going
to
be
a
wood,
screened
enclosure
and
it'll
be
four
feet
tall.
Q
Those
bins
are
not
super
tall
and
so
we're
it's
not
going
to
be
as
tall
as
this
image.
But
that
gives
you
an
idea
of
the
materials
and
the
detailing
on
that,
and
then
the
next
sheet
is
just
highlighting
some
of
our
plant
palette.
To
give
you
an
idea
of
the
plant
materials
that
we'll
be
using
on
the
site,
so
we've
got
sugar,
maples,
dogwoods,
small
decisions,
trees,
large
citrus
trees,
some
pyramidal
hollies
that
get
big
and
then
some
flowering,
shrubs
and
some
ground
covers
so
that
wraps
up.
P
Thanks
suzanne
alex:
is
it
easier
if
I
share
my
screen
or
do
you.
A
It's
probably
easier,
if
I
do
it
unless
you,
unless
you're
gonna,
show
exactly
it
things
that
you've
submitted
that
way,
I
can
keep
track
of
like
if
there's
anything
new
I
just
have
to
keep
track
of
it
because
it
would
become
an
exhibit.
So
you
tell
me
if
you're
going
to
just
present
from
what
the
plans
you
submitted,
that's
fine
or
but
I'm
happy
to
also
do
it
for
you.
If
you.
P
We
have
one
new
thing
but
other
than
that.
Okay,
so
we
try.
I
wanted
to
show
the
the
renderings.
They
start
on
a0
one
or
two
a02.
A
P
A02,
if
you
scroll
down
one
more
right
there
right
there.
Okay,
sorry,
I'm
stuck
stop.
Okay.
This
is
a
this
is
a
view
from
chestnut
and
on
it
you
can
see
you
can
see
the
view
of
the
balconies
and
the
painted
brick,
and
you
can
also
see
that
the
rooftop
structure
wouldn't
be
visible
in
this
rendering.
Can
you
go
to
the
next
page
and
then
in
this
rendering
you
can
see.
This
is
from
cumberland,
and
although
this
is
a
street
view,
the
building
is
actually
144
feet
away
from
cumberland.
P
P
You
can
also
see
the
fence
and
the
retaining
wall
that
suzanne
had
been
talking
about
in
the
landscape
and
then,
if
you
go
to
the
next
rendering
you
can
see
that
even
better,
you
can
see
the
ivy
going
up
the
concrete
wall
in
the
back
of
this
image,
and
you
can
also
see
our
elevator
tower
coming
up
in
the
in
the
rear.
It's
not
a
tower
right.
The
roof
of
the
elevator
as
jeff
said.
P
And
then,
if
you
could
go
to,
let's
see.
A
P
It's
a
section
showing
the
I
said,
a52.
P
There
it
is
okay,
so
from
chestnut
street
we
did
the
the
maximum
eye
rotation
vision.
So
you
won't
you.
If
you're
walking
down
chestnut
street
you're,
not
going
to
see
any
of
the
items
on
the
roof,
so
you
won't,
you
won't
see
the
planters
or
the
rail
or
the
mechanical
units
or
even
the
elevator
tower,
and
then,
by
the
time
you
get
to
cumberland,
I
feel
like
you're,
going
to
be
so
far
away
from
the
building
that
it's
not
an
issue
either.
Do
you
have
any
input
on
that.
O
O
P
O
O
The
units
will
not
be
very
livable
without
some
outdoor
space
attached
to
them.
We
feel
this
is
an
appropriate
use
of
balconies.
We
feel
like
they're
placed
correctly,
and
we
do
not
think
it
in
any
way
degrades
this
building
or
it's
not
in
keeping
with
the
architecture
of
the
1950
brick
boxes.
O
Douglas
ellington's
hospital
building
in
biltmore
village
has
a
similar
balcony
on
it
in
the
back,
and
we
feel
that
these
are
appropriate.
The
the
items
on
the
roof,
the
there
was
a
concern
about
the
shade
structure.
It
is
not
permanent,
it's
just
a
different
form
of
a
umbrella.
It
would
be
considered
a
piece
of
furniture.
O
O
On
the
other
side
of
the
alley
there
there
are
three
houses
that
access
their
property
from
that
alley,
so
we
put
them
away
from
the
those
neighbors
and
we
can
easily
put
a
screen
a
metal
screen
or
a
stucco
screen
or
a
planter
in
front
of
it.
If
that
is
more
palatable
on
that,
there
are
only
three
mechanical
units
on
the
roof.
The
rest
are
in
the
very
back
along
that
little
back
walkway
on
the
south
side
of
the
building.
O
P
Just
talk
about
okay,
so
as
far
as
painting
the
brick
goes,
we
have
a
few
images
of
painted
brick
in
montford.
If
we
can
share
that
figure
out.
O
Okay,
first
of
all,
we
do
understand
the
guidelines
and
we
also
understand
that
brick
has
been
painted
for
centuries
all
right.
The
there
are
buildings
on
pack
square
that
are
painted
right.
We
are
working
on.
We've
worked
on
a
number
of
historic
tax
credit
projects
that
have
painted
brick,
and
this
building
is
rather
plain.
O
O
Now,
that's
sort
of
archaic
language.
Now
they're
called
non-contributing,
but
in
1978
I
think
it
was
or
82
the
building
was
considered
intrusive.
It
is
a
very
humble
building
and
it
needs
a
little
help
and
we
feel
like
painting
it
is
appropriate
and
we
think
the
guidelines
need
some
flexibility
in
it.
This
is
not
a
richard
sharp
smith
masterpiece
on
cumberland
on
montford
avenue,
there's
painted
brick
throughout
montford,
the
hunter
and
banks
building
at
the
head
of
montford's
painted
they're
painted
brick
porches.
O
There's
a
painted
brick
chimney
just
down
the
street
and
a
foundation
wall
and
here's
a
close-up
of
the
painted
brick
and
block,
and
this
building
needs
help.
Okay
and
we
feel
like
painting.
The
brick
is
appropriate
and
you
know
that's
it
in
its
current
state,
and
this
is
an
image
of
it-
painted
keep
going.
O
Proposed
existing
that's
a
good
view
of
the
tree.
That
is
that's
okay,
existing
and
proposed,
and
we
would
seriously
like
your
consideration
to
allow
us
to
paint
the
brick.
It
is
a
non-contributing
structure.
It
will
help
it
the
building.
It
will
help
the
property
overall,
it
will
improve.
The
look
will
make
the
units
more
valuable
and
we
think
it
will
be
a
nice
addition
to
montford
and.
O
And
that's
about
all
I
have
to
say
about
brick
and
the
balconies
we've
talked
about
that.
D
H
O
Q
F
Are
the
window
I'm
sorry
bill,
go
ahead.
H
F
The
windows
is
that
the
glass
itself
is
that
tinted
or
reflective,
or
is
it
just
clear,
glass.
F
And
the
trash
cans
you're
having
individual
recycling
and
trash
cans
for
each
unit,
no.
F
A
It
just
means
that
you
can't
do
block
or
something
like
that.
So.
F
A
The
commission's
allowed
concrete
walls
before,
obviously
it's
found
they're
found
historically
in
the
district.
A
F
E
A
I
do
not
know
I
could
check
the
file
for
hunter
banks
and
see
if
we
have
anything
for
that.
If
I
think
that
that
that
building
was
painted
some
time
ago
well
before
my
time
with
the
city,
so
I'd
have
to
check
our
file
to
verify
that
and
obviously
there
are
plenty
of
examples
in
montford
of
painted
brick,
but
they
may
have
either
just
not
gotten
a
ca
or
it
could
have
predated
the
standards.
A
You
know
that
that's
obviously
those
two
scenarios
are
very
typical
of
mumford,
so
but
I'm
happy
to
see
if
I
can
dig
through
the
file
for
hunter
banks
and
see
if
there's
anything
in
there,
that
might
help
us.
O
There's
also
a
painted
mural
on,
I
think
it's
colorway
street
on
the
side
of
nine
mine.
That's
painted
brick.
D
D
R
Yes,
hi
hi
there.
My
name
is
jamie
hi,
my
name.
E
B
L
F
B
R
I
don't
like
the
balconies,
though
I
live
on,
that
that
alleyway
side
there
and
because
of
the
height
of
the
building,
I
I
know
it's
not
really
of
consideration
personal
stuff
like
that,
the
the
the
balconies
will
be
pretty
high
and
looking
down
on
the
houses
behind
it
and
and-
and
I
guess
the
balconies
you
know
in
terms
of
the
architectural
integrity
and
preserving
the
character,
the
neighborhood.
R
I
don't
really
see
a
building
in
montford
that
has
metal
balconies
like
this,
so
it
doesn't
really
seem
like
it
goes
with
the
character,
the
rest
of
the
neighborhood
and
then
on
top
of
that,
the
the
eastern
side
balconies,
which
is
where
the
primary
place
of
all
the
balconies,
are
that
that
actually
is
pretty
darn
close
to
chestnut.
R
You
know
they
talked
about
being
140
feet
and
60
feet
or
whatever
away
in
the
front
side
there,
the
cumberland
facing
side,
but
on
the
east
facing
side
that
that's
you
know,
the
building
itself
is
10
or
15
feet
away
from
the
sidewalk
and
then
the
balconies
are
you
know
they
start
another
10
feet
or
so
away
from
there.
So
it's
it's
within
you
know,
probably
I
don't
know
25
feet
of
of
the
actual
sidewalk
passing
by
and
there's
not
really
anything
to
kind
of
act
as
a
screen
or
anything
like
that.
R
So,
though,
all
those
balconies
would
be
in
full
view
of
the
entirety
of
chestnut
as
you
walk
or
drive
drive
by,
and
it
just
doesn't
seem
like
it's
really
in
keeping
with
the
changing
of
the
facade.
I
think
that
that
eastern
side
of
the
building
should
fully
be
considered,
as
you
know,
a
front-facing
or
at
least
a
a
widely
appearing
side
of
the
building
to
chestnut,
because
there's
not
really
anything
that
prohibits
that
view
or
that
view
right
there.
So
that's
pretty
much
all
all.
I
have
to
say.
H
H
As
to
the
140
feet
from
cumberland,
it
seems
to
me
on
a
few
applications
where
you've
had
some
pretty
distant
visibility.
Situations
where
you
know
if
the
feature
was
visible
from
a
street,
it
was
visible
from
the
street
period
whether
it
was
140
feet
or
25
feet.
H
F
Is
there
a
material
change
in
the
balconies
that
would
help
you,
commissioner,
rican
to
to
allow
for
the
balcony.
H
Yeah,
I
I
I
think
the
metallic
balcony
is
a
real
problem.
I
also
think
that,
as
noted
by
staff
that
the
existing
apartment
houses
like
the
neighboring
colonial,
for
example,
you
know-
do
incorporate
the
balcony
into
the
the
architecture,
and
I
I
heard
the
applicant
talk
about
the
livability
of
the
apartments
really
requiring
some
kind
of
outdoor
space,
and
you
know
I
don't
know
what
design
changes
might
be
might
be,
might
be
possible
and
what
material
changes
might
be
possible
to
alleviate
those
concerns
as
to
has
to
come
as
to
congruity.
B
I
think
it.
We
have
to
be
very
careful
in
an
application
like
this
to
make
sure
we're
clear
and
reference
the
applicable
standards.
I
think,
for
a
couple
of
reasons:
one
it
is
a
non-contributing
structure,
and
so
the
rules
are
different
and
we
have
to,
I
think,
be
careful
to
understand
what
those
what
those
standards
are
and
that
the
assumption
isn't
that,
because
it's
non-contributing,
there's
the
there's
the
freedom
to
do
anything
or
to
make
concessions
that
really
aren't
a
pathway
through
the
standards.
B
I
think
that's
one
one
important
thing
to
note.
I
do
think
that
the
standards
are
somewhat
unclear.
They
don't
answer
things
directly
like.
Can
you
paint
the
brick
when
you
sort
of
scroll
through
the
the
two
places
in
the
in
the
standards
that
it
tells
you
to
go,
certainly
for
non-contributing
structures?
It's
there's,
certainly
not
a
lot
of
language
in
and
of
itself
that
references
to
the
neighborhood
settings
section,
which
also
isn't
particularly
clear.
B
It
does
talk
about
sort
of
integrity
of
materials
and
maintaining
the
sort
of
character
and
quality
of
the
building
in
in
both
of
those
kind
of
sections,
but
the
other
thing.
I
think
that
it's
you
know,
there's
some.
B
What's
the
right
way
to
say
it,
you
know.
Certainly
the
existing
building,
which
has
been
there
for
a
long
time
is,
is
not
particularly
fabulous
to
look
at.
I
think.
Certainly
the
applicant
is
trying
to
to
make
improvements
to
make
it
look
nice
and-
and
it's
certainly
been
sitting
that
way
for
a
long
time
in
its
current
condition,
but
I
think
there
still
has
to
be
for
us
a
pathway
through
the
standards
to
arrive
at
that
place
where
the
building
does
look
nice
and
does
enhance
the
neighborhood
in
ways.
B
I
certainly
think
the
landscaping
is
tremendous.
I
think
it's
certainly
a
significant
improvement
and
the
quality
of
that
corner
of
that
of
montford.
That's
a
pretty
strong
corner
in
that
neighborhood
and
for
it
to
revert
back
with
some
open,
green
space
and
and
beautiful
landscaping,
I
think,
is
certainly
of
extreme
value
in
in
the
project,
and
so
I
think
we
just.
I
have
to
been
sort
of
scrolling
through
the
standards
a
little
bit
to
try
to
find
those
answers
about
the
balconies
and
about
the
painting.
Really
are
the
two
big
things
for
me.
G
G
My
thoughts,
you
know
scrolling
through
the
standards,
as
you
were
saying,
is
on
page
69
with
the
guidelines
for
non-contributing
structures.
I
mean
it
is
fairly
clear
that
it
says
every
effort
should
be
made
to
maintain
the
architectural
integrity
of
non-contributing
structures.
So
we've
I
feel,
like
we've
kind
of
got,
maintain
that
integrity
as
a
baseline
and
then
number
three
about
keeping
keeping
them
compatible
with
the
neighborhood,
the
building,
its
environment
and
specifically
just
going
to
the
painting.
First.
G
I
also
feel,
like
the
guidelines,
are
very
very
clear
with
saying
it's
not
appropriate
to
paint
unpainted
masonry
and
taking
a
leap
from
the
two
of
those
one
thing
about
that
particular
building
that
has
always
kind
of
appealed
to
me
is
because
it's
unpainted
brick
and
I
realize
that
it's
an
intrusion,
a
non-contributing
structure,
but
it
has
always
echoed
the
other
unpainted
brick
apartment
type
buildings
that
are
scattered
throughout
the
neighborhood.
G
That
I
appreciate-
and
I
know
that's
a
different
era-
different
style,
but
to
me
it
it.
It
echoes
that
and
if
it
were
painted,
it
would
really
change
that
the
look
and
the
feel
and
the
the
link,
and
so
I'm
I'm
linking
through
the
standards
with
the
non-contributing
buildings,
with
our
guidelines
on
masonry
and
then
my
observation
about
how
this
fits
in
for
me
with
the
larger
brick
buildings
in
the
guidelines,
so
my
or
in
the
district.
G
My
feelings
in
the
interpretation
here
is
that
unless
there
was
a
very
clear
reason
for
painting
this,
such
as
preservation
of
the
brick
which
I
haven't
heard-
and
I
have
never
heard
of
that-
if
it's
just
purely
for
aesthetics-
that
I
I'm
not
seeing
it
as
a
as
a,
I
am
meaningful
reason.
So.
E
B
Throw
that
out
there
do
you
mind
to
pull
the
renderings
up.
The
certain
street
view
renderings
that
are
in
our
packet.
B
Yeah,
I
think
one
thing
to
note
in
the
renderings,
which
I
think
is
is
maybe
not
quite
what
it
will
look
like
in
real
life
when,
when
you
paint
brick,
that
distinction
of
the
joints
between
brick
units
goes
away
because
it
reads
really
monochromatic
in
a
way.
That
is,
is
not
the
case.
Unless,
of
course,
you
paint
the
mortar
a
different
color,
which
feels
like
not
really
what
happens
when
people
paint
brick
and
also
really
tedious
and
labor
intensive.
B
But
I
think
the
rendering
you
still
pick
up
a
lot
of
that
joint
detail
in
the
mortar
joints
between
the
brick
that
I
think
in
real
life
is
going
to
read
a
lot
more
sort
of
monochromatic
across
those
facades.
In
a
way
that
that
I
think
we,
you
know
when
you
certainly
the
photographs
of
hunter
banks
in
the
front,
certainly
just
reads
as
a
blank
sort
of
gray
kind
of
a
wall
and
you
lose
a
lot
of
the
brick.
The
joint
detailing.
B
I
certainly
one
of
the
more
interesting
things
about
the
building.
To
start
with
is
the
sort
of
brick
detailing
in
those
in
those
spaces
where
the
brick
sort
of
pops
out-
and
I
would
you
know,
I'd
hate
to
lose
some
of
that,
because
we
have
this
sort
of
monochromatic
kind
of
thing,
that's
happening,
and
certainly
the
there's
still
shadow
and
there's
still,
you
know,
textual
difference
there,
but
it
it
seems
to
me
if
we're
maintaining
anything.
B
It's
would
be
the
integrity
of
that
kind
of
a
detail
which
is
unique
to
that
building
and
certainly,
if
there
were
anything
character,
defining
that
would
be
one
of
those
things
to
speak
about
is
that
the
care
that
was
taken
to
you
know
do
something
interesting
with
the
brick
when
it
was
first
constructed.
B
So
I'm
struggling
a
little
bit
with
the
painting.
I
am
interested
to
hear
other
people's
thoughts
on
that
and
also
the
balconies.
Those
still
obviously
seem
to
be
the
two
big
things
I
don't
know
gail.
If
you
have
a
place
where
you've
landed
in
the
in
this
standards
regarding
those
balconies
and
their
which
facades
they
sort
of
end
up
on.
G
Well,
this
may
be
irrelevant,
but
when
it
was
mentioned
that
the
back
of
the
hospital
building
in
biltmore.
G
In
biltmore
had
those
metal
balconies,
I
went
and
looked
and
they
are
on
the
back
part
like
the
true
back
part
of
the
building
and
they're
much
lighter
feeling
than
the
way
the
renderings
are
showing
the
ones
here,
but
as
far
as
like,
like
poking
through
the
standards,
I
have
not
made
quite
a
nice
chain
and
to
me
that
I
mean
that
there's
a
real
functional
component
to
that,
it's
not
just
purely
aesthetic.
It
doesn't
it's
removable,
whereas
painting
is
not.
G
A
This
is
just
kind
of
an
aside
and
may
not
change
anything,
but
I
did
sit
down
with
stacy
who,
for
some
of
our
new
commissioner
stacy
merton.
She
was
my
predecessor
and
worked
with
the
commission
for
many
years,
and
sometimes
I
put
her
brain
on
design
stuff
and
we
looked
at
this
together
today.
One
of
the
thoughts
that
we
had
was
potentially,
if
you
all,
are
okay
with
the
balconies
that
the
railings
be
changed
to
match
the
railings
on
the
roof
there.
A
A
I
do
think
that
metal
is,
I
feel,
like
it's
the
most
appropriate
material
for
this
building,
since
it
is
a
mid-century
building
versus
wood,
but
I
understand
there
may
be
different
thoughts
on
that.
I
do
think
that
at
least
eliminating
the
roof
coverings
would
probably
help
a
good
deal.
Also.
M
Sorry,
quick
clarifying
question
on
the
painting
alex
didn't
you
know
that
some
of
the
brick
has
already
been
painted.
First
question:.
A
There's
a
section
of
sorry:
I
keep
trying
to
scroll
now
that
I
can
see
my
presentation.
I
keep
trying
to
scroll
on
the
meeting
screen
and
it's
not
helpful.
A
Let
me
get
to
that
space.
Let's
see.
M
So,
while
you're
getting
that,
if
it
has
been,
how
would
we
treat
that
do
if
we
said
you
need
to
be
unpainted,
do
you
say
it
goes?
You
take
you
strip
the
paint
off,
so
it's
back
to
that,
or
would
you
say
since
that's
already
been
painted
that
could
be
painted,
but
unpainted
brick
could
not
be
painted
and
again
newbie
question
so
bear
with
me.
A
No,
no
that's
a
great
question.
I
would
say
that,
yes,
if
it's
a
previously
painted
masonry
surface,
that
it
can
be
repainted,
the
the
existing
section
that's
painted
is.
G
B
A
Right
so
so,
commissioner
vaughn,
so
if
you're
looking
at
the
left,
where
my
cursor
is
where
the
little
pointer
is
and
then
going
all
the
way
to
here,
that
is
all
I'm.
F
A
A
M
M
So
I
think
I'm
where
you
are
in
the
photo
yeah,
that's
clearly
a
a
darker
orangey
color
compared
to
the
lighter
color
that
takes
you,
then
all
the
way
over
to
the
far
right
under
the
the
not
an
elevator
tower,
also
being
that
darker
orangier
color
compared
to
what's
in
the
middle.
So
are
you
suggesting
those
two
parts
are
the
painted
parts.
M
M
M
And
that's
just
data
applicants,
not
analysis,
I'm
just
collecting
it.
Bro.
L
Robin
entered
an
exhibit
for
the
original
cumberland
side
of
the
building
the
west
side.
Can
we
bring
that
up?
So
we
can
all
take
a
look
at
that
cmu,
brick
connection
how
the
masonry
joins
with
the
cmu
robin.
A
L
B
For
you
know
for
conversation
purposes,
if
that's
the,
if
that
is
the
route
the
commission
thinks
the
project
should
go,
I
think
there's
a
a
color
that
exists.
That
would
be
closer
to
the
brick
than
that.
B
N
I
too
really
like
the
brick.
I
like
the
I
actually
kind
of
like
this
building
its
own
little
self.
It's
not
a
beautiful
building,
but
it
kind
of
has
its
own
little
thing
going
on
and
I'm
also
struggling
with
the
balconies.
I
totally
understand
and
would
want
a
balcony
if
I
was
living
there,
but
it
the
way
that
they're
appearing
to
me
right
now,
they're
they're,
it's
it's
very
heavy.
On
this
building
I
mean
I
don't
I
and
I
honestly
don't
know
how
to
fix
it.
N
A
A
But
this
is
we
don't
talk
about
non-contributing
buildings,
especially
that
are
institutional
or
commercial
use
very
frequently,
so
this
is
definitely
kind
of
like
one
of
those.
You
know
one
of
those
rare
rare
items
where
it's
kind
of
new
and
different.
I
I
think
that
you
know,
because
you
could
kind
of
look
at
the
if
you're
from
a
philosophical
standpoint,
if
you're
considering
you
know
mid-century
architecture,
certainly
a
lot
of
it
was
approached
from
the
aspect
of
utilizing,
like
you
know,
new
and
contemporary
materials
and
kind
of
like.
A
What's
you
know,
what's
the
the
most
efficient
thing
and
like
those
types
of
things,
so
I
think
an
argument
could
be
made
for
for
a
railing
like
that
on
this
building,
and
I
also
think
it
would
help
visually.
A
You
know
just
make
it
not.
Quite
so
you
know
you,
don't
you
don't
have
that
boundary
of
a
picket
railing?
You
know
vertical
picket
railing,
but
I
you
know
I
don't
without
seeing
it
or
knowing
kind
of
more
of
what
the
commission
thinks
about.
N
A
Idea,
you
know
a
little
bit
treading
lightly
here
in
terms
of
ideas.
It
was
just
something
that
stacy-
and
I
talked
about
today,
especially
because
the
railing
on
the
roof
has
the
horizontal
elements
and
that
kind
of
carrying
that,
if
they're
you
know
going
to
be
multiple
railings,
it's
best
that
they
all
match,
or
you
know,
have
a
similar
orientation
so
that
there's
not
competing
elements.
If
that
makes
sense.
G
O
Also
wanted
to
say
something:
originally:
we
had
suspended
balconies
from
the
side
of
the
buildings.
Building
there
were
no
columns,
it
was
hanging
yeah,
they
they
attached
at
the
base,
and
then
there
was
a
steel
rod
that
connected
back
to
the
building
and
we
changed
that
and
unfortunately
deleted
that
from
the
model
that
we
were
using.
O
That
would
be
preferable
to
what
we're
showing
now
and
we
are
more
than
happy
to
go
back
to
a
balcony
without
columns
that
would
be
suspended
and
there
were
the
reason
we
did
it.
The
way
we
did
was
there
weren't
that
we
know
of
I'm
sure
there
were
but
suspended
metal,
balconies
weren't
really
a
thing
in
the
1950s,
at
least
that's
my
that's
my
perception
or
observation,
it's
a
more,
but
we
so
we
went
with
a
pretty
standard
columns
and
a
roof
cap,
and
but
we'll
we'll
change
it
to
a
suspended
balcony.
O
A
Say
jeff
I
would
like
to
hear,
and
the
commission
may
not
be
able
to
give
their
thoughts
on
it
until
they
see
it,
but
I
would
like
to
hear
their
thoughts
on
it,
because
I
think
you
know
what
stacey
and
I
were
saying.
Is
that
not
not
sure
that
it
would
be
preferable
necessary,
but
it
would
be
helpful
to
compare
to
see
if
one
or
the
other
was
more
more
compatible
with
the
building.
A
You
know
that
was
what
our
suggestion
was
is
to
to
re-look
at
that,
even
though
you
know
this
was
you
know.
I
pointed
you
down
this
path
of
kind
of
doing
something
that
was
a
little
more
in
line
with.
You
know
traditional
balcony
type,
because
I
too
am
not
sure
that
there
are
any
suspended
balconies
and
to
me
it
looked
very
like
wow.
This
is
a.
This
is
definitely
like
a
very
current
modern
day.
A
You
know
apartment
looking
building,
so
it
made
me
a
little
bit
like
not
sure,
that's
the
right
thing,
but
I
think
it
might
be
helpful
to
look
at
look
at
it
again
and
kind
of
compare
and
see
you
know
well.
P
Even
though
it
looks
heavy,
the
steel
columns
are
six
or
eight
inches,
and
it's
it's
it's
not.
I
think
I
I
understand
it
feels
heavy,
but
it's
as
light
as
the
one
in
biltmore
village,
because
it's
the
same
detail
as
the
one
in
biltmore
village.
So
we.
P
We
can
make
the
columns
even
smaller,
we
could,
you
know
the
the
the
railings
can
be
horizontal
metal
or,
but
there
are
things
we
can
do
to
make
it
lighter,
but
I
think
it.
O
I
think
the
rendering
also
is
a
little
deceptive
in
the
heaviness
of
the
from
the
angle.
Just
you
know,
and
we
agree
that
the
brick
ms
kite's
comment
on
the
brick
being
painted.
You
still
read
the
texture,
but
you
don't
so
much
see
the
grout
and
that
was
really
a
function
of
the
rendering
program
we
had.
O
And
that's
my
take
on
it.
B
B
Felt
like
that,
they
probably
weren't
a
thing.
It
feels
like,
maybe
a
step
too
far.
I
do
think
it
would
be
helpful
to
to
explore
some
options.
I
think
there's
a
balance
when
you
with
the
columns
of
being
too
skinny
right,
then
you
have
an
opposite
problem
where
it
feels
really
out
of
proportion,
even
though
it's
probably
structurally
fine,
it
feels
like
it's
not
and
certainly
there's
a
there's
a
proportion
there.
That's
important,
I
think
you
know
studying
the
the
railing
detail,
I
think,
is
valuable.
B
I
think
studying
it
with
and
without
the
shed
roof
on
there
I
think
would
be
interesting.
It's
certainly
appealing
for
for
tenants
to
have
the
roof
on
there,
but
I
think
it's
worth
looking
at
visually
in
a
lot
in
a
couple
of
different
ways
to
compare.
B
I
think
it's
the
commission
is
struggling
a
little
bit
with
with
how
to
visualize
those
things,
those
options
that
might
start
to
feel
better.
I
think
that
I'm
of
the
opinion
that
the
street
frontage
is
the
street
frontage.
I
think
that
that
we
need
to
be
mindful
of
that
with
regards
to
the
placement
of
balconies
and
if
there's
ways
to
minimize
the
balconies
on
those
street
frontage
sides.
I
think
that
feels
like
the
right
like
a
right
thing
to
do.
I
don't
have
really
any
concerns
about
what's
happening
on
the
roof.
B
I
think
it's
so
so
visually
limited
from
where
you're
going
to
really
see
anything
that
that
that
feels
like
not
really,
we've
not
talked
really
a
lot
about
that.
I
don't
think
in
this
meeting,
but
that
doesn't
feel
super
critical
for
me.
Other
thoughts,
commissioners.
A
I
just
wanted
to
offer
it's
helpful
that
I
can't
that
I
have
the
I'm
sorry
vice
chair
eakins.
I
just
want
to
like.
D
A
That
I
have
the
the
hospital
building
in
biltmore
village.
I
have
that
pulled
up
in
my
pictometry
software.
If
you
want
me
to
present
that,
so
you
can
see
what
the
back
of
that
building
looks
like.
A
A
C
Deck,
I
wanted
to
add
my
two
cents
in
that
I've
worked
on
a
lot
of
these
sort
of
mid-century,
big
brick
industrial
type
buildings,
and
a
lot
of
the
conversation
was
around
the
balconies
sort
of
mimicking
the
kind
of
old
fire
escapes
which
generally
had
the
same
theme,
which
was
you
know,
thinner,
sort
of
overall
visual,
just
center
railings,
not
as
as
heavy
visually.
C
And
then
I
guess
in
essence,
they
were
sort
of
suspended
minus
that
the
ladder
that
connected
them,
but
that
that
generally
is
kind
of
the
theme.
In
those
conversations
and-
and
I
you
know
obviously
sometimes
plans-
don't
always
maybe
showcase
it
might
appear
heavier
on
the
plans
and
they
will
be
in
real
life.
So
I
certainly
appreciate
that
as
well.
But
you
know
if
you
guys
do
present
a
different,
maybe
lighter
style
deck.
Maybe
that's
just
something
to
to
consider.
B
C
Yeah
and
they're
usually
kind
of
I
guess
attached
by
a
ledger
or
something
like
that,
but
they
probably
not
a
safe
balcony
right
because
they're
they
are
a
little
bit
thin.
I'm
just
meant
for
egress,
but
you
know
I
I
think
if,
if
there's
something
that
isn't
quite
as
heavy,
but
it's
also
safe
as
a
balcony,
I
think
I
would
be
on
board
with
all
of
that.
C
No
well,
I
think
my
opinion
on
the
roof
covering
on
the
top
is
that
I
think,
if
you
don't
have
something
you're
going
to
have
patio
umbrellas
out
there
anyway,
because
whoever
lives
in
those
condos
is
probably
going
to
put
some
kind
of
shade
up
there
on
that,
and
maybe
that's
in
their
their
hoa
docks
or
something
that
they're
not
allowed
to
put
patio
umbrellas.
M
Preference-
and
am
I
seeing
that
these
basically
look
like
individual
as
opposed
to
what
you
see
in
a
lot.
I
was
trying
to
do
some
google
image
searches
myself
where
they
seem
to
span
across
a
whole
section
of
the
building.
Rather-
and
I
know
then
you
end
up
with
the
you-
have
to
put
up
dividing
rails,
but
would
that
make
it
more
acceptable
for
likely
better
term
to
people
as
if
they
were
longer
balconies
like
the
fire
escape
concept,
as
opposed
to
these
individual
ones?
M
M
Right
yeah,
so
you
can
see
they're
all
individual.
Now
I
realize
you've
got
the
chimney.
It
looks
like
in
the
way
there,
but
I
I'm
just
trying
to
see
if
there
are
ways
that
we
can
meet
the
guidelines
and
satisfy
what
you
know
the
applicants
are.
Are
you
know
very
willingly
gladly
trying
to
do
and
working
with
us
on
this.
B
I
almost
think
continuous
balconies
make
it
even
heavier
on
the
on
that
side,
especially
when
there's
sort
of
on
that
the
top
left,
where
there's
sort
of
three
bays
it
feels
like
having
space
between
them,
makes
them.
I
think,
achieving
a
sort
of
a
lightness
and
a
transparency.
There
will
be
easier,
continuous,
possibly.
M
But
the
continuous
does
you
know
again
from
my
google
image
searches
when
you
say
1950s
apartment
buildings
with
you
know,
balconies.
They
all
tend
to
be
that
long
and
they
are
thinner
materials
as
some
point
out.
They
look
more
like
fire
escapes.
In
fact,
I
had
to
like
look
closer
and
see
if
they
were
actually
fire
escapes
and
not
balconies.
So.
A
I
I
kind
of
think
that,
like
eliminating
the
roof
coverings
makes
them
lighter,
and
I
don't
like
to
me
at
least
at
least
like
an
umbrella
or
something
like
that
is,
you
know,
a
feature
that
can
go
away.
That
just
is,
you
know,
looks
like
a
patio
feature
versus
a
part
of
the
building
itself,
just
my
two
cents
on.
B
O
How
does
the
specif?
What
about
where
does
excuse
me?
What
guidelines
for
non-contributing
structure
did
the
balconies
violate,
specifically
not
they
look
heavy.
What
specific
guidelines
do
we
specifically.
A
Jeff,
I
think
we're
looking
at
page
69
of
the
montford
design
standards
that
speak
to
non-contributing
structures
and,
as
as
commissioner
lazarus
pointed
out,
we're
most
mostly
utilizing
one
and
three
which
say
every
effort
should
be
made
to
maintain
the
architectural
integrity
of
non-contributing
structures
and
then
three
says
alterations
and
additions
to
non-contributing
buildings
shall
be
compatible
with
the
size
scale,
color,
material
and
character
of
the
of
the
neighborhood,
the
building
and
its
environment.
O
O
O
O
Just
too
strange
that
might
take
away
some
of
the.
O
Heaviness
of
it,
but
I
I
really
I'm
having
a
hard
time
understanding
what
and
in
terms
of
neighborhood
character,
neighborhood
character.
There
are
balconies
on
apartment
buildings
would
would
you
be
more
comfortable
if
this
was
built
out
of
wood?
You
know
the
ones
next
door
would
we
can
make
him
out
of
wood?
We
can
get
a
little
bit
more
street
yeah.
O
A
I
think
it's
just
limiting
the
visual
impact
on
the
building,
because,
as
a
couple
of
them
have
pointed
out,
this
building
does
have
its
own
style,
and
I
don't
I
don't
think
I've
heard
anyone
say
no
balconies
at
all.
I
think
we're
just
trying
to
kind
of
get
to
a
place
where
the
again
the
the
balconies
are
they're.
You
know
they're
tied
to
the
building
and
look
appropriate
to
the
to
the
building.
H
You
know
they
also
don't
think
that
the
standard
says
that
any
design
that
comes
from
the
same
era
as
the
existing
building
is
acceptable.
I
think
it's
a
matter
of
the
building
as
it
is,
and
you
know
the
compatibility
with
the
the
historic
district,
so
I
don't
think
it
answers
anything
to
say.
Oh
this
particular
thing
was
built
by
you
know
various
for
various
structures
in
the
1950s.
It's
a
matter
of
this
structure
and
this.
B
B
I
think
the
two
big
issues
remain
the
balconies
and
how
they're
detailed
and
how
and
their
proportion
and
their
massing
and
their
scale
and
the
and
the
and
the
paint
on
the
brick,
I
think,
is
the
other
big
question,
and
I
don't
know
that
we're
in
a
place
where
I've
heard
consensus
from
the
commission
in
any
particular
direction
around
those
two.
M
M
F
I
feel
the
guidelines
are
to
follow
the
guidelines
on
keep
the
brick
unpainted
and
paint
that
middle
section
of
the
cmu
block,
something
that's
up
to
y'all,
whether
that's
red
or
whether
that's
black
or
whatever.
But
I
something
that's
where
I
am
on
that
and
I'm
so
happy
that
this
is
being
put
back
into
use.
I,
when
a
lot
of
examples
in
town
aren't,
I
think,
I'm
not
so
fox,
but
there's
a
there's,
a
great
a
greatness
here.
That.
F
If
everybody
gets
to
a
point
with
your
balconies,
I
think
this
is
going
to
be
a
great
project,
but
the
balconies
I
see
as
yeah.
Maybe
this
isn't
doing
you
any
favors,
the
the
illustration
of
it
being
a
little
beefy
or
anyway,
I'm
with
you
on
or
I
am
of
the
don't
paint,
the
brick
team
as
the
guidelines
stay
and
and
as
far
as
balconies
go.
F
I
think
it's
an
it's
a
separate
era
of
addition
on
here
not
trying
to
make
a
50s
building
have
a
50s
solution,
but.
F
S
I
definitely
agree
with
commissioner
hornaday.
I
think
that
the
brick
should
remain
unpainted.
I
think
that
the
standards
are
very
clear
in
that,
except
for
that
one
section
that
already
does
have
paint
on
it.
So
I'm,
okay
with
that
as
well,
and
I
think
it's
kind
of
difficult
to
compare
these
kinds
of
balconies
with
other
balconies
when
there's
nothing.
That's
really
similar
to
this,
but
I'm
excited
to
see
other
versions
of
the
balcony,
because
I
agree
that
I
mean
I
think
a
balcony
would
be
good
here.
B
I
think
the
path
forward
it
feels
like
there's
really
two
ways
for
the
application
to
to
move
forward.
One
is
to
request
a
continuance
and
to
give
yourselves
time
to
evaluate
the
feedback
that
you've
gotten
from
the
commission
today,
and
the
other
would
be
to
make
amendments
to
your
application
that
you
think
better
align
with
that
feedback
and
and
then
ask
for
a
vote
on
those.
But
I
don't
know
that
we've
as
a
commission,
without
seeing
more
information,
have
been
able
to
offer
some
kind
of
consensus
on
the
direction
that
things
should
go.
A
O
Does
does
anybody?
Is
anyone
on
the
commission,
okay
with
painting
the
brick.
O
H
Okay,
yeah,
I
don't
think
we
have
to
go
to
that
extreme,
but
that's
how
I
interpret
the
standard
that
applies.
O
Okay,
the
balcony
go
ahead.
N
O
O
O
H
It
seems
to
me
that
the
the
happiness
is
something
we've
kept
coming
back
to,
and
you
know
I
not
being
an
architect
of
30
years
being
a
mere
lawyer
several
decades.
H
You
know
I
really
humbly
have
to
say
that
I
don't
have
the
visual
imagination
to
think
of
all
the
permutations
and
combinations
of
wooden,
glass
and
metal
that
you
might
be
able
to
come
up
with.
So
you
know
it.
It
really
wouldn't
help
to
have
have
have
my
thoughts
on
it.
I'd
rather
see
you
take
the
general
thoughts
that
we've
given
you
and
whatever
others
might
be
able
to
articulate
better
than
I
and
you
know,
come
back
to
us
after
a
continuance
with
revised
plans.
M
I'll
put
my
neck
on
the
block
and
say
I
like
the
idea
of
the
glass,
because
it
allows
the
architecture
and
the
brick
and
those
details
to
show
through
myself,
but
I
am
more
than
willing
to
have
people
who've
been
doing
this
a
lot
longer
than
I
have
come
back
and
say:
yo
james.
Here's
why
you're
wrong
so,
but
in
the
meantime
I
like
that
idea
and
to
me
that
the
idea
of
being
able
to
see
through
it
seems
to
me
that
would
make
it
lighter.
C
To
me,
the
heaviness
isn't
so
much
from
those
railings,
it's
more
from
the
thicker
posts,
as
they
appear
on
the
plans,
I'm
more
partial
to
the
vertical
railings
or
maybe
even
glass.
I
just
would
have
to
see
it,
but
the
I
guess,
the
horizontal
cable
railings,
I'm
usually
a
little
reluctant
on
those
on
higher
floors.
I
just
think
they're
sort
of
pose
a
safety
issue
with
little
people
that
like
to
use
them
as
gymnasiums
and
crawl
up
so
so
I'd
be
more
inclined
to
have
a.
B
I
think
the
other
part
of
that
that
has
been
talked
about
in
a
couple
of
different
directions
is
the
roof,
and
that's
certainly
one
of
the
elements
and
looking
at
it
with
and
without
or
other
roof
solutions
that
are
different
than
that.
I
think
is.
B
Is
part
of
the
study
from
my
perspective,
I
think
it's
an
interesting
idea
to
look
at
glass
railings.
I
can't
think
of
a
time
where
that's
been
in
our
conversation
in
montford
to
have
glass
railings
in
any
location.
I
think
that
we've
applied
a
similar
strategy
to
a
project
that
the
the
one
it's
not
similar.
E
B
That
the
glass
was
an
opportunity
to
enclose
a
building's
patio
and
still
be
able
to
see
the
building
behind
it
right.
The
tots
tasties
building,
that's
not
todd's
tasties
anymore,
and
I
forget
what
what
the
name
of
that
building
is.
But
in
that
case
it
wasn't
a
railing
issue,
but
we
they
did
really
enclose
that
building
with
glass
in
a
really
clean
sort
of
unintrusive
way
and
let
the
building
kind
of
read
beyond
it.
You
know
it's
not
the
same
as
this
railing.
I
don't
I
still
go
back
to.
B
Where
has
there
been
a
glass
railing
in
montford?
I
don't
think
I've
seen
one
in
the
four
or
so
years.
I've
been
on
the
commission,
but
but
I
think
it's
certainly
an
interesting,
an
interesting
thing,
james,
that
you
bring
up
in
terms
of
letting
the
building
kind
of
read
beyond
it.
M
M
B
Well,
we
always
seem
to
have
this.
You
know
similar
conversation,
these
larger
scale,
multi-tenant
residential,
that's
sort
of
sprinkled
really
throughout
montford
and
they're
all
kind
of
different.
We
don't
they
don't
come
in
front
of
the
commission.
Very
often
it's
difficult
to
compare
them
to
adjacent
it's.
You
know
the
scale
of
things
that
are
right
adjacent
to
them.
We've
had
those
conversations
in
the
past,
and
can
you
look
at
them
in
the
context
of
each
other
and
the
era,
certainly
in
which
they're
built.
B
Is
a
it
is
that
there's
a
uniqueness
to
these
buildings
in
the
montford
district
as
part
of
the
overall
fabric
that
we
don't
really
find
in
some
of
the
other
districts?
We
certainly
don't
see
them
in
album
rural
park
and
other
places,
and
so
I
think
that's
one
of
the
unique
things
about
montford
that
we
really
should
be
celebrating
in
a
lot
of
ways
is
the.
Is
that
sort
of
the
sprinkling
of
these
kind
of
bigger
buildings
inside
the
context
of
the
residential
fabric.
M
I
encourage
the
my
other,
my
colleagues,
to
weigh
in
on
this
glass
concept,
because
if
we
find
that
there's
enough,
you
know
yeah
people
think
they
could
get
behind
this
or
don't.
I
I'd
rather
hear
that
as
well.
Rather
than
have
these
people
waste
their
time
and
money
developing
one
or
the
other,
so
the
more
we
can
give
them
some
more
guidance
on
what
we
would
be
happy
with.
I
think
it's
fairer
to
them,
just
in
my
opinion,.
F
I
think
glass
might
draw
more
attention
to
the
to
the
newness.
This
is
an
kind
of
an
ugly
building.
That's
looks
really
nice.
Now
it's
or
it's
moving
to
another
life
and
I'm,
I
don't
think
anything
you
do
is
going
to
be
detrimental
to
the
building.
But
I
don't.
I
don't
want
to
see
just
a
glass
solution.
I'd
like
to
see
another
metal
solution
as
well.
O
They
have,
they
have
a
clip
they're,
pretty
common
they're.
We
used
them
in
atlanta.
I
haven't
used
them
here,
but
there
there's
a
number
of
systems
out
there,
that
you
can
use
they're,
aluminum
ones
and
there's
some
really
slick
ones
out
there
and
there's
some
that
are
a
little
bit
more
mundane.
I
guess
I
I
don't
really
know
the
simple
more
simple.
You
know:
there's
glass
rail
at
the
montford
rooftop
bar
and
the
hyatt
hyatt
place
right
there,
they're,
really
tall
and
and
but
you
know
we
they're
they
can
be
really
expensive.
O
O
E
A
O
Yeah
there's
some
that
are
very:
can
we
get
a
screen.
P
It's
kind
of
magically
floating,
but
we
wouldn't
do
that.
But
that's
the
glass
spraying.
O
O
So
we
can,
we
can
keep
looking
and
the
reason
I
I
don't
want
to
come
back
and
somebody
and
not
have
thought
of
something.
If
anybody
thinks
of
something
they
would
like
for
us
to
look
at.
O
Please
let
us
know
and
we'll
look
at
it,
we'll
we'll
round
up
the
usual
railing
suspects
and
we'll
put
them
on
the
building
and
do
our
best
to
present
them
in
a
way,
in
an
honest
way
that
they
read
the
way
that
they're
probably
going
to
look
in
real
life
and
we'll
try
different
things,
and
we
can
give
it
another
stab
next
month
or
whenever
is
the.
B
Alex
do
you
have
some
dates
for
those
for
the
next
meeting.
A
Well,
I
say
I
say
that
the
23rd
and
I
will
be
out
that
I
will
be
out
from
the
18th
to
the
22nd
jeff
and
robin
so
so,
if
you
send
me
something
like
you
know
at
the
end
of
that
at
the
end
of
next
week,
I
may
not
see
it
until
I'm
back
on
wednesday,
but
that's
okay.
It's
not!
We
don't
have
to
re-advertise
for
this
either.
So
if
you
like
need
an
extra
week
like
if
you
need
until
the
28th,
that
would
be
fine.
A
We're
in
one
of
one
of
those
wonderful
months
that
I
love
where
we
have
an
extra
week
in
between,
so
it
gives
a
little
bit
more
time.
So
so,
if
you
all
want
to
just
if
we
can
communicate
offline
about
what
your
you
know,
what
your
timeline
is
and
how
much
time
you
think
you'll
need,
and
then
we
can
just
make
a
game
plan
if
that
works.
For
you.
O
Okay,
cam
and
dawn
did.
Did
I
convey
your
wishes
correctly.
J
Yes,
yeah
jeff
yeah
and
robin.
Thank
you
guys.
I
guess
I
this
is
cam
here,
I'm
just
a
little
confused.
You
know
we're
sitting
here
we're
talking
about.
You
know
the
potential
for
really
ultra
modern
contemporary
balconies
on
this
building
that
we're
interested
in
preserving
some
degree
of
historical
integrity,
and
yet
we
can't
paint
it
it
just
it
doesn't
seem
consistent
to
me
and
maybe
I'm
maybe
I'm
missing
something
here.
M
J
Okay,
but
to
me
that
seems
to
be
just
a
very
contemporary
approach.
I
mean
you're
putting
a
something
that
doesn't
fit
with
the
time
period
on
the
building.
So
are
your
balconies
well
the
discussion
that
I
think
that
we
just
had
was
that's
not
necessarily.
The
case
was
what
I
gathered.
But
may
you
know
maybe
I'm
I'm,
maybe
I'm
not
following.
B
I
think
cam
for
me,
the
the
brick
question
speaks
to
really
the
first
of
the
standards
for
non-contributing
structures
that
talks
about
maintaining
the
architectural
integrity
of
these
structures
and
that
I,
I
think,
that's
a
substantial
change
to
the
architectural
integrity
of
the
brick
existing
brick.
B
That's
on
the
building
to
paint
it,
and
I
think
that
the
the
balconies
talk
about
you
know,
there's
a
there's
a
guideline
in
there
number
three
is
the
thing
that
addresses
alterations
and
additions,
and
it
certainly
doesn't
have
a
specific
list
of
things
to
choose
from,
but
it
does
talk
about
compatibility
with
size,
scale,
color,
material
and
character
of
the
neighborhood
and
the
building
and
what's
around
it,
and
so
I
think
that
is
you
know.
Certainly
your
architect
has
an
instinct
about
that.
P
B
Is
why
this
sort
of
collection
of
folks
in
conversation
will
help
us
all
get
to
a
place
where
the
commission
of
12
people
or
so
feels
confident
that
we've
made
a
decision?
That's
in
alignment
with
those
things
and
because
it
doesn't
have
a
list
of
things.
It
says.
B
Yes,
you
can
use
a
a
glass
railing,
we
have
to
talk
about
it
and
we
have
to
to
let
your
architect
explore
the
options
and
make
their
recommendations
and
think
through
the
requirements
as
as
they
interpret
them,
and
then
let
us
do
the
same
and
we're
all
our
some
of
us
are
architects,
and
some
of
us
are
something
else,
and
it
gives
us
an
opportunity
to
to
collectively
feel
like
that.
B
The
convert
that
the
conversation
is
productive
and
that
we've
come
to
some
sort
of
a
consensus
that
feels
like
it
meets
the
intent
of
those
standards.
G
Also
just
want
to
clarify
that,
although
the
architect
brought
up
the
idea
of
the
glass
balcony,
I
mean
that's
just
thrown
out
there
as
an
option,
among
others,
and
I'm
not
we
it
wasn't.
The
commission
saying
you
need
to
do
this,
so
it
is
an
option,
we'll
look
at
it.
If
it
comes
up,
I
hear
about
it
being
clear,
but
it
might
also
be
very
distracting,
and
I
mean
honestly,
what
has
been
presented
with
the
metal
balcony
is
compatible
with
the
other
building.
G
That's
somewhat
similar
across
town,
it's
just
that
they
look
a
little
different
in
the
renderings
than
I
think
we
were
comfortable
with.
So
I
mean
they're
they're,
we're
not
proscribing
we're
just
trying
to
weigh
in
on
potentials.
If
I
capture
that
correctly
yeah.
B
I
think
there's
been
a
little
bit
of
discussion
about
the
the
facades
of
the
building
that
face
streets,
but
I
haven't
heard
a
a
lot
of
comment
from
commissioners
regarding
whether
there's
specific
elevations
that
those
that
the
balconies
should
go
away.
I
don't
think
I've
heard
anyone
say
that
at
this
particular
point
I
think
that's
been
a
maybe
a
secondary
concern
for
some,
but
no
one
has
said
if
only
they
weren't
on
this
elevation.
H
And
when
the
elevation
issue
was
articulated
by
a
person
in
the
public
comment
and
none
of
the
commissioners
has
picked
up
on
it,.
J
E
H
E
B
D
A
Alrighty,
so
I
don't
want
to
keep
you
all
very
late,
since
we
were
here
so
late
last
week.
I
think
I
feel
like
I'm
still
recovering
from
that.
There
is
just
a
couple
of
things
on
the
other
business
section
that
I
wanted
to
go
over.
One
is
thanks
for
those
who
responded
to
me
about
imper
resuming
in-person
meetings.
A
We
don't
know
yet
when,
if
we're
going
to
do
that
in
july,
our
the
space
where
we
normally
meet
has
been
undergoing
some
updates
and
we're
hoping
that
it
will
be
ready
by
the
time
we
meet.
But
we
have
to
know
by
the
time
we
notice.
Well,
that's
not
true.
We
don't
have
to
know
by
the
time
we
notice
the
meaning,
but
it's
better
if
we
do
and
then
there's
not
a
lot
of
confusion.
A
I
noted
subcommittees
versus
working
groups
in
our
other
business
section,
because
we
have
not
been
able
to
convene
our
subcommittee
that
we
newly
formed
right
before
the
pandemic
started,
which
was
very
unfortunate
because
we
were,
you
know
getting
some
some
ground
underneath
us
and
and
trying
to
plan
an
event
with
the
preservation
society.
So
it
was.
A
It
was
a
bummer
that
that
got
put
on
hold,
but
but
since
then,
there's
been
a
little
bit
of
clarification
from
our
clerk's
office
about
a
subcommittee,
which
is
something
that
has
to
be,
we
have
to
follow
open
meetings,
law
for
and
and
we
have
to
advertise
for,
like
we
would
for
a
normal
meeting
versus
if
we
call
it
a
working
group
or
a
task
force.
A
It
is
a
less
formal
body
that
the
commission
is
forming
of
itself
to
just
look
at
certain
things,
so
be
on
the
lookout
for
some
correspondence
from
me
in
the
near
future,
about
kind
of
regrouping
with
the
folks
that
were
on
that
subcommittee
before
we've
lost,
I
think,
probably
more
than
half
the
members
that
were
on
it
since
since
then,
but
so
I'll.
A
Just
reach
out
to
everyone
to
see
who
wants
to
be
on
the
new
task
group
which,
for
those
who
don't
know
the
task
group,
was
working
on
doing
some
education
and
outreach
events,
kind
of
focusing
on
that
that
part
of
the
duties
of
the
commission,
as
well
as
as
our
landmark
kind
of
task
group
and
looking
at
you
know
our
our
our
list
for
potential
landmark,
designation
and
updating
that
and
talking
about
other
things.
We
might
want
to
talk
about
related
to
landmark
designation.
A
So
that
also
the
other
idea
I
had
was
since,
and
I
want
to
say
a
big
huge
thank
you
to
james
and
and
to
will
james
was
one
of
the
people
that
organized
the
cemetery
event,
which
was
really
really
special.
I
think
for
all
that
were
involved
in
present
and
it
just
it
felt
like
even
to
be
the
little
tiny
speck
part
of
that
was
just
really
really
meaningful
and,
and
it
was
it
was
a
really
wonderful
experience.
A
So
thank
you
for
that,
and
I
I
do
in
thinking
on
that
and
before
I
forget
I
want
to
say
thank
you
to
will
for
all
the
work
he
did
on
creating
the
video
for
the
awardees
last
year
and
this
year.
That
was
much
appreciated
in
the
preservation
society
for
providing
the
pa
system
and
helping
blast
out
the
video
for
us.
I
was
thinking
that
number
one.
It
would
be
great
to
have.
A
Maybe
next
year
we
have
like
a
task
group
or
a
task
force
that
helps
figure
out
how
we
want
to
celebrate
the
award
next
year.
So
maybe
that's
something
that
we
can
look
at
instead
of
just
kind
of
reverting
back
to
our
old
way.
If
things
are,
you
know
back
online,
then
of
where
we
go
to
the
you
guys
may
want
to
still
do
it
with
psabc
and
do
it
at
the
griffin
awards,
but
maybe
not
so
I
just
want.
A
I
think
it
would
be
great
to
for
a
group
or
even
just
the
one
task
force
or
whatever
it
ends
up
being
to
to
kind
of
look
at
that
annually.
To
to
you
know,
be
the
be
the
leaders
for
that,
and
then
I
did
want
to
figure
out
too
a
way
to
say
thank
you
to
james
and
the
south
asheville
cemetery
association
and
psabc,
because
they
really
did
all
the
heavy
lifting
for
the
event
they
did.
You
know
set
up,
I
got
there
early,
but
all
everything
had
already
been
set
up.
A
There
was
a
lunch
provided
and
it
was
really
really
nice,
and
so
I,
just
if
any
of
you
have
any
thoughts
on
that
I'd,
be
happy
to
hear
it's
not
like
the
city
can't
just
like
write
them
a
donation.
You
know
so
what's
meaningful
and
you
know
and
would
make
the
commissioners
feel
feel
you
know
proud
and
happy
to
to
do
to
honor
their
efforts,
and
so
maybe
we
can
talk
about
that
next
time
or
if
you
guys
want
to
freestyle
it
now
and
talk
through
ideas.
That's
fine,
too.
A
I
also
wanted
to
note
that
this
is
un.
Sadly
bill's
last
meeting
with
us,
which
it
was
like
we
got
to
the
left
to
the
second
motion-
and
I
was
like
this-
is
the
last
one,
I'm
so
sad.
A
So
I'm
also
going
to
try
to
brainstorm
on
getting
together
with
everyone
in
the
next
month
or
two
to
celebrate
build
service
as
well
as
brian
moffitt,
who
was
our
past
chair,
but
his
term
expired
in
the
middle
of
the
pandemic.
We
weren't
able
to
celebrate
his
service
either,
and
so
it
would
be
great
to
do
them
together
if
we
can
so
I'll
try
to
work
on
that
also.
M
That's
not
official,
looking
at
the
idea
of
how
we
could
pitch
the
city
about
reparations
funds
or
preservation,
type
of
things,
things
like
the
south,
high
school
cemetery,
but
their
other
landmark
type
buildings
that
have
didn't
get
the
type
of
support
they
should
have
because
of
how
things
went
that
we
should
say,
look
while
you're,
considering
where
to
send
reparation
money.
This
would
be
a
great
way
of
you
know:
making
amends
as
it
were,
by
helping
to
preserve
and
update,
or
you
know,
maintain.
A
Oh,
no
sorry
I
was
just
I
keep
interrupting
you
today
bill.
I
just
want
to
say
I
think,
that's
a
great
idea
and
I
think
that's
something
that
really
dovetails
in
with
the
education
and
outreach
piece,
because
it's
a
great
way
for
us
to
educate
ourselves
as
well
as
tell
stories
through
those
efforts.
You
know,
as
we
learn
about
what
what
you
know,
properties
that
we
might
look
at
for
those
efforts
or
places
you
know
within
the
community
for
those
efforts
it
will
help.
H
M
H
I
just
wanted
to
say
that
I
thought
that
was
a
brilliant
thought
by
commissioner
vaughan
and
that,
although
reparations
certainly
are
often
seen
as
relating
to
many
of
the
horrible
historical
things
that
have
gone
on
since
slavery,
that
you
know,
the
the
foundation
for
reparations
is
definitely
for
poor
slavery
in
this,
and
this
particular
cemetery
does
goes
back
to
them.
So
it's
especially
appropriate.
B
I
think
james,
it's
interesting
when,
as
you
started
talking
my
mind,
went
in
a
completely
different
direction
in
terms
of
thank
you
and
is
there?
Is
there
a
an
hrc,
volunteer
crew
that
could
be
doing
work
out
at
the
cemetery?
For
you
know
over
a
course
of
a
weekend.
B
Is
that
something-
and
I
know
we
can't
maybe
all
meet
together-
we've
got
to
kind
of
do
it
in
chunks,
but
is
that
an
opportunity
to
say
thank
you
to
the
south
to
the
cemetery
association
folks
by
donating
some
of
our
own
time
to
whatever
work
efforts
they
have
that
are
ongoing.
M
A
B
F
On
on
june,
19th,
juneteenth,
andrea
clark,
as
we
is
going
to
this,
is
my
muted
she's
at
the
ymi
and
starting
her
james
fester
miller
trail,
it's
that
launch
of
that.
So
that
might
be
some
up
there.
It
is
that's
the
printed
piece,
daniel's
graphics,
donated
that
printing,
but
I
think
there's
something
like
before
our
meeting
it'd
be
nice
just
to
kind
of
recognize
something.
F
That's
happened
in
the
community
that
is
related
to
us
like
there's
such
a
good
story,
the
drummer
building
redoing
those
windows
into
wood,
and
it
ended
up
costing
cheaper
and
but
just
some,
if
maybe
it's
a
way
that
for
all
the
commissioners
to
you
know
once
a
month
we
rotate
out
the
property
of
the
hour,
and
for
that
hour
as
emily
in
charge
of
the
city,
I
think
she
gets
the
keys
for
that
I'll
check,
janice
and
she's
in
charge
of
the
city.
F
She
can
declare
the
next
hour
and
a
half
hrc
hour
and
and
that
there's
an
award,
a
mini
award
of
just
recognizing
something
in
the
community
that
is
supported
through
hrc
is
a
thought
of
a
a
mini
sort
of
recognition.
Recognition
of
something,
and
then
I
also
wondered-
and
this
is
probably
more
for
alex
what
well,
with
the
non-binding
resolution
for
the
charlotte
street
thing.
F
A
So
I
so
I'm
glad
you
brought
this
up
because
janice
we
had
planned
to,
I
think
janice
was
gonna,
maybe
mention
it
last
month,
but
it
was
just
too
much
stuff,
and
so
there
was
for
those
who,
I
don't
think
like.
I
know
sue
wasn't
here,
I'm
not.
I
can't
recall
who
else
might
not
have
been
here,
but
the
the
commission
adopted
a
resolution
opposing
the
substantial
demolition
of
historic
buildings
associated
with
the
the
new
mixed
use
development-
that's
being
proposed
on
the
100
block
of
charlotte
street.
So
there
was
some.
A
A
We
should
have
just
done
it
ourselves
versus
having
psabc
come
because
then
it
ended
up,
adding
this
kind
of
more
political
layer
to
things
that
inflamed
an
already
kind
of
flammable
situation,
or
you
know
contentious
situation,
and
so
the
attorney
for
that
development
took
issue
with
the
resolution
that
the
hrc
passed,
and
so
naturally
our
city
attorneys,
including
janice,
are
involved
in
all
these
communications
and
what
ended
up
happening
was
the
brad
branham.
A
T
I
can
I
can
talk
more,
you
know
more
about
it.
I
do
think
it.
I
think
everyone
should
see
the
response.
So
what
we
did
is
I
I
was
at
the
meeting,
so
I
was
able
to
tell
brad
that
it
was
not
inappropriate.
I
mean
the
applicant
for
charlotte
street,
their
attorney
and
morso
their
applicant,
the
developer.
T
He
said
that
there
that
was
improper
one,
because
they
said
that
there
were
conflict
of
interest,
that
nobody
should
have
been
voting
at
the
hrc
and
we
responded
really
immediately
say
no.
T
This
was
not
quasi-judicial
and
the
board
was
acting
in
its
advisory
capacity
and
there
were
not
conflict
of
interest
because-
and
there
are
certain
conflicts
of
interest,
but
associational
relationship
is
not
one
when
it
comes
to
something:
that's
just
a
pure
advisory
opinion,
and
so
I
was
actually
going
to
use
this
as
a
learning
opportunity,
because
next
month
I'll
talk
to
you
about
the
update
date
in
your
rules
just
to
to
update
rules
of
procedure,
because
we
have
this
new
160d
statute.
T
That
I
think
is
just
an
opportunity
for
the
board
to
know
what
are
the
conflict
of
interest
for
rules
of
procedure
or
advisory,
but
and
be
that
as
it
may,
what
happened
was
we
wanted
to
make
clear?
We
didn't
want
a
situation
where,
when
it
went
to
planning
and
zoning
commission
that
they
were
kind
of
blindsided
by
the
applicant
saying
oh
well,
there
was
all
this
thing
that
hrc
did.
That
was
not
proper.
T
So
what
we
instead
advised
was
that
the
chairs
would
submit
the
resolution,
and
that
would
be
considered
along
with
any
other
information
that
comes
in
on
a
conditional.
Zoning
and
again
may
wanted
to
also
make
clear
for
the
record
that
the
hrc
acted
properly,
that
all
the
members
of
the
hrc
acted
properly
in.
In
voting
for
that
and
where
it's
at
now.
T
I
think
now
that
some
members
of
the
public
who
who
are
familiar
with
hrc
or
preservation
society
members
they
they
want
to
know
why.
The
hrc
report
is
not
part
of
the
planning
and
zoning
staff
report,
and
we
just
simply
said
because
it
was
not
a
part
of
the
formal
of
of
the
formal
zoning
approval,
because
it
wasn't
a
local
historic
district.
T
And
so
I
think
that
the
resolution,
as
it
was
as
it
was
written,
should
have
helped
to
inform
people
and
should
have
helped
to
inform
the
planning
and
zoning
that
that
it's
a
national
historic
district
and
that,
as
you
said,
stated
in
your
in
that
resolution,
it
would
have
an
impact
or
could
have
a
impact
on
that
designation
and
the
integrity
of
the
national
historic
district.
T
I've
been,
I
advise
planning
and
zoning
too,
so
those
meetings
has
come
up.
The
the
demolitions
have
come
up
and
right
now
well
at
the
meeting
there
were
people
on
both
sides
calling
in,
but
the
demolition
of
those
buildings
did
not
seem
from.
My
perspective
did
not
seem
to
be
a
driving
concern
for
the
planning
and
zoning
commission,
probably
because
they're
in
bad
condition
and
there
there
were
people
on
both
sides.
T
Some
people
say
well
they're
in
bad
condition,
because
they
weren't
kept
up
there
with
people
on
other
side,
saying
they're
difficult
to
keep
up
so
where
it's
at
now
is
that
it
it
passed
it
passed
narrowly
at
planning
and
zoning
commission.
T
Last
week
last
wednesday
at
first
there
was
a
motion
to
deny
the
approval,
but
that
was
a
three
to
four
vote
and
just-
and
so
it's
majority
vote,
so
that
failed
and
then
another
commissioner
brought
a
motion
to
pass
it
and
it
passed
four
to
three.
It
will
now
move
on
to
the
city
council.
T
We
were
handling
the
virtual
meetings
and
there
were
some
technical
difficulties.
So
a
lot
of
people
had
issue
with
that.
But
luckily,
when
that
by
the
time
it
goes
to
city
council-
and
I
don't
have
that
date-
yet
it
will
be
a
live
meeting,
and
so
there
will
be
that
even
more
opportunity
for
live
participation.
T
T
Wanted
to
know,
but
I
I
do
think
that
I
would
like
the
opportunity
to
make
sure
every
commission
member
sees
both
the
resolution
and
the
the
memo
that
legal
did
for
the
planning
and
zoning
commission
and
and
then
also
that
the
chair,
you
would
be
if,
if
you
so
choose
submitting
that
resolution
once
again
as
part
of
the
city
council,
materials.
T
D
The
city
council
date
has
been
scheduled
for
july
27th,
so
this
will
be
an
in-person
meeting.
So
anybody,
if
the
if
a
member
of
the
hrc,
would
like
to
come
and
speak
and
present
the
resolution
that
would
or
it
can
be
submitted
through
the
city's
public
input
site.
Just
as
you
did
for
the
plain
zoning
commission,
either
option
is
available.
H
Yeah,
I
mean,
I
think,
it's
important,
that
the
resolutions
contents
be
considered
by
city
council
and
in
a
context
where
you've
you've
got
a
very
fine
attorney
and
when
that
firm
represents
me
for
local
purposes,
they're
great,
you
know
deliberately,
you
know
minimizing
the
kinds
of
things
we
have
in
our
resolution
and
try
to
deflect
from
them.
I
I
think
it
is
important
that
we,
in
our
role,
as
established
by
the
city
and
county.
H
Legislation
that
established
the
hrc,
it
is
extremely
important
that
the
legitimacy
of
our
role
and
the
substance
of
our
comets
be
considered,
and
the
historic
district
might
well
not
survive
very
long
as
an
historic
district
with
12
contributing
structure.
Resistability.
A
I
want
to
add
to
first
gail
I
love
how
where
your
cat
shows
up
when
it's
time
to
go,
I
was
hoping
it
would
put
its
little
head
up
and
make
that
face
like
enough
talking
already.
A
Oh,
that
was
so
cute
last
time.
I
just
wanted
to
say
that
first
of
all,
I
will
send
the
memo
to
all
of
you
in
the
resolution
just
to
make
sure
everybody
has
that
in
front
of
them
the
memo
we
did
not
send
to
you
immediately
because
there
was
no
opportunity
to
really
give
you
all
context
around
the
memo
and
what
was
swirling
around
around
all
that
stuff.
So
so
apologies
that
it's
you
know
a
little
bit
of
a
lull
between
but
I'll
make
sure.
A
I
made
a
note
to
send
that
to
you
and
I'll
do
that
tomorrow.
The
other
thing
I
want
to
note
is
you
know
one
of
the
things
that
was
called
into
question
as
janice
mentioned
was
conflict
of
interest,
and
it
I
want
to
make
clear
that
we
do
not
track
your
organizational
affiliations.
So
there
were.
There
were
questions
directed
at
me
like
what
is
the
membership
of
the
hrc?
A
Who
is
a
member
of
the
preservation
society,
and
I
kindly
replied
that
that
is
information
that
we
do
not
track.
Well,
I
do
know
you
know
that
that
several
of
you
are
members
of
the
preservation
society.
That
is
an
information
that
I
shared
you
know.
Sometimes
there
are
things
that
are
public
records
that
I
have
to
share
like
the
roster
for
the
for
the
commission,
but
I
didn't
share
any
of
the
personal
information
that
I
might
know
just
kind
of
offhand.
A
So
just
want
to
reassure
you
of
that
and
I'm
sorry
for
any
of
you.
If
that
was
a
frustrating
situation,
because
I
understand-
and
I
was
upset
myself-
that
the
integrity
of
the
commission
was
called
into
question
and-
and
I
understood
that
some
of
you
might
have
felt
pretty
upset
too
by
that,
if
you
heard
about
it
in
the
community
so.
A
That
I
don't
track
that
information
and
I
wouldn't
share
it.
You
know
without
asking
you
or
letting
you
know,
or
something
like
that,
so.
H
I
mean
the
integrity
of
two
commissioners
was,
you
know,
besmirched
and
some
of
the
accusations
that
flew
around
and
I
think
for
anybody
who
wasn't
at
the
meeting.
It's
good
to
remember
that,
commissioner
mitchell,
who
was
on
the
preservation
society
board,
had
left
long
before.
That
resolution
came
up.
He
left
at
six
o'clock,
it's
a
five
and
a
half
hour
meeting,
so
he
left
long
before
the
resolution
and
you
know
then
will
hornaday
happens
to
be.
T
And
either
on
this
or
going
forward,
I
actually,
I
I
think
either
I
think
will
had
asked
alex.
Is
there
anything
you
know?
Is
there
anything
I
should
be
concerned
about,
but
just
for
you
know
any
time
going
forward.
If
you
wonder,
is
this
a
conflict
of
interest?
You
know
you
check
with
alex.
If
you
want
to
call
me
directly,
that's
fine!
You
know
I.
T
I
wasn't
even
thinking
in
terms
of
what
this
could
turn
in
what
had
had
turned
into
at
the
time,
but
you
know
sometimes
it
makes
you
feel
better
just
say
well,
I
did
check
in
because,
but
I
also
was
upset
that
the
questioning
of
the
integrity
of
this
body
or
your
body,
because
you
follow
it's
a
very
difficult
role.
You're
in
you,
follow
quasi-judicial
procedures.
This
is
not.
T
We
do
have
some
rogue
boards
that
go
do
different
things,
which
may
be
why
you
know
why
there
could
be
questions
sometimes,
but
you
are
not
such
a
board
and
I
I
really
appreciate
your
dedication
and
and
and
always
wanted
to
do
the
right
thing,
and
I
told
mr
mitchell
the
same
thing
he's
he's
always.
Procedurally,
I
don't,
I
can't
think
of
any
of
commissioners
on
this
commission
that
aren't
careful
about
procedures
recusing
themselves
when
necessary
at
least
question
you
know
asking.
Is
this
a
conflict
of
interest?
T
But
you
know
I
want
you
to
know
that
as
legal
staff,
I'm
here
to
answer
any
questions
about
that,
and
sometimes
it
does
come
up
in
hrc
because
well
sometimes
it's
uncomfortable.
You
might
have
a
neighbor
that
you're,
you
know
having
to
vote
on
their
project
across
the
street,
but
that's
not
a
conflict
of
interest,
so
we'll
have
more
conversations
about
this
going
forward,
but
I'm
glad
I'm
glad
it
came
up,
and
I
hope
that
answered
your
question
well
on,
where
we're
at
in
the
the
process.
On
that.