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From YouTube: Downtown Commission, 1 of 3 – August 25, 2023
Description
Due to streaming interruptions, this is Downtown Commission video 1 of 3.
Regular meeting of the City of Asheville Downtown Commission.
Access the agenda and other meeting materials at the City of Asheville website: https://www.ashevillenc.gov/department/city-clerk/boards-and-commissions/downtown-commission/
Participate before and during the meeting on our public engagement hub: https://publicinput.com/W0132
A
Thank
you
good
morning,
everyone,
my
name
is:
are
we
ready?
Yes,
good
morning,
once
again,
I'm
Brian
Moffett
I'd
like
to
welcome
everyone
staff
to
the
meet
August,
25th
2023
meeting
of
the
actual
downtown
commission.
The
Asheville
downtown
commission
was
created
by
the
city
council
for
the
sustainability
and
continued
development
of
downtown
a
vital
Urban
Center
of
Western
North,
Carolina's
economic,
cultural
and
visitor
activity.
The
downtown
commission
provides
city
council
with
recommendations
on
downtown
policies
and
initiatives.
A
In
addition,
downtown
Commissioners
currently
feel
three
out
of
the
nine
seats
of
the
city's
design,
Review
Committee,
which
reviews
development
projects
within
the
central
business
district,
the
river
Arts,
District
and
hotel
projects
outside
of
those
areas.
The
downtown
commission
also
has
the
opportunity
to
provide
input
on
projects
outside
of
the
scope
of
design
review.
A
We
are
streaming
live
on
our
virtual
engagement
Hub,
which
is
accessible
through
the
virtual
engagement
Hub
link
on
the
front
page
of
the
city
website,
and
also
linked
on
the
committee
page,
and
we
are
also
available
on
YouTube
for
anyone
out
there
with
us
today.
Welcome
at
this
time,
I'll
go
through
and
introduce
all
the
committee
members
committee
members
as
I
call
your
name.
Please
say
a
quick
hello.
Soon
I
can
use
this
Nur
Edwards.
B
A
Our
staff
actually
are
our
newly
minted.
Is
that
a
good
word
director.
A
Our
that's
downtown
specialist
at
liaison,
listen.
A
Thank
you.
Everyone
for
coming
Commissioners,
please
remember
as
I,
should
to
speak
into
the
microphone
when
we
speak,
so
that
those
who
are
out
there
can
actually
hear
us.
We
can
hear
each
other,
but
that's
for
our
our
recording
for
our
minutes
as
well
as
for
any
of
that
are
attending
virtually
all
right.
I
will
start
I
guess.
Our
first
item
of
business,
then,
is
to
go
through
our
approval
of
the
draft
action
minutes
from
our
July
14
2023
meeting.
A
Are
there
any
revisions
comments
or
do
we
have
a
motion
to
approve.
F
Typo
for
Jan
Davis
says
Jane
Davis.
Okay,
with
that
I'm
happy
to
make
a
motion
to
approve
very.
A
Good
is
there
a
second
I'll?
Second,
second,
all
in
favor,
say
aye
aye,
aye,
aye
opposed
very
good
motion
carries.
We
do
not
have
any
virtual
comments
that
were
submitted
prior
ahead
of
time
for
public
comments.
E
A
Okay,
we
will
review
that
as
we
go
and
noted
that
we
did
receive
a
public
comment.
Is
there
any
in-person
public
comment
at
this
time
on
items
in
the
agenda
very
good?
We
will
go
into
our
new
business
and
presentations,
so
our
planning
director
is
going
to
talk
about
the
pack
Square
Plaza
Vision
plan
and.
D
D
Well,
good
morning
my
name
is
Stephanie
Munson
doll,
I'm
the
planning
and
Urban
Design
director
for
the
city
of
Asheville.
Thank
you
very
much
I'm
so
happy
to
be
here
today
check
this
out
in
this
picture.
We
can
see
right
where
we
are
right,
there's
City
Hall.
In
the
background
and
in
the
foreground
you
see
Peck
Square
Plaza.
So
this
looks
pretty
good
right.
I
mean
here's
this
in
the
foreground.
D
This
beautiful
piece
of
public
art
by
Haas
Haley
it
is
reflecting
the
colors,
are
all
reflecting
the
sky
and
the
mountains
and
our
place,
and
it
feels
pretty
good
and
there's.
There
is
truth
to
saying
that
this
Plaza
in
the
heart
of
our
downtown
is
in
is
in
decent
shape
and
it's
a
lovely
place.
But
if
you
look
closer
at
this
picture,
there
are
some
issues
and
there
are
some
things
that
are
invisible.
D
This
was
taken
by
one
of
the
liquibancy
staff
after
the
project
was
first
completed
20
something
years
ago
and
you'll
see
that
the
you
can
tell
my
what
the
trees
look
like
and
all
of
that.
But
at
that
point,
standing
behind
you
would
have
been
a
70
foot
tall,
Granite
Obelisk,
which
our
community
decided
to
take
down,
and
we
know
that
that
was
a
divisive
Memorial
that
suggested
that
a
certain
group
had
power.
And
then
we
had
a
lot
of
discussions.
There
are
other
about
whether
or
not
it
should
come
or
go.
D
There
are
other
memorials
and
monuments
in
this
park.
There
are
several
just
a
Thomas
wolf
right
to
the
right
of
you
on
the
left.
There's
a
space,
that's
not
really
activated
and
could
be
used
better.
What
you
don't
see
in
this
cleverly
crafted
photo
is
that
really
you're
sitting
in
between
two
streets
that
were
built
for
automobiles
and
that
beautiful
Grove
to
you
know
in
the
middle
ground
and
to
the
left
with
the
river
Birches?
D
It
didn't
need
to
be
wholesalely
changed,
but
we
wanted
to
work
with
the
community
and
figure
out
how
we
could
make
it
more
welcoming
and
inclusive
and
put
together
a
team
with
a
county.
That's
a
partnership
and
McAdams
who
have
some
specialty
in
Parks,
especially
being
led
by
project
manager,
Mitchell
Silber,
who
ran
New,
York
City's
parks
department,
and
we
did
a
a
pretty
interesting
public
engagement
process
with
a
lot
of
focus
groups.
And
you
can
see
we
had
input
like
actually
in
place.
D
We
did
tours
and
we
collected
what
we
heard
and
we
created
a
draft
plan.
So
that
plan
is
now
under
review.
And
what
we're
here
today
is
to
ask
you
to
make
a
recommendation
to
planning
and
zoning
and
city
council
about
whether
or
not
that
plan
should
be
adopted.
I
want
to
take
a
pause
here
and
tell
you
what
being
adopted
as
a
master
plan
means
in
the
state
of
North
Carolina.
D
D
It
means
that
there
are
suggested
items
to
do
that
might
affect
policy
that
that
our
elected
officials
should
stand
up
and
take
note
of
and
that
to
the
best
of
our
abilities,
we're
going
to
use
this
document
when
we
make
changes
moving
forward
and
that's
all
it
means
it
doesn't
commit
us
to
spending
a
dime.
It
doesn't
commit
us
to
doing
things
exactly
as
they
are
written,
but
it
helps
serve
as
a
historical
record
of
at
this
moment
in
time.
This
is
what
we
thought
would
be
a
really
good
thing
to
do.
D
We
Amalgamated
all
of
the
different
potential
design
ideas
into
a
more
General
concept.
That
says
we
all
agreed
that
that's
space
on
the
north
of
the
plaza
really
should
be
activated
and
that
by
creating
new
vendor
spaces
for
people,
maybe
like
with
more
permanent
kiosks,
we
could
probably
address
some
issues
of
Entrepreneurship
growing,
our
our
downtown
sector,
maybe
with
more
diverse
businesses
and
then
also
there's
some
Public
Safety
aspects
to
this
as
well
as
we
all
know
that
in
activated
space
is
a
safer
space
on
the
right
hand,
side
where
those
River
Birches
were
there's.
D
This
idea
about
doing
a
meditation,
Grove
or
a
place
for
reflection,
and
it
might
even
be
an
opportunity
to
name
or
talk
about
some
of
the
harms
that
have
happened
in
these
public
spaces
in
the
past
and
make
it
be
more
of
a
place
for
healing
on
the
Southeast
Corner.
That
is
our
direct
connection
to
the
block.
D
We
can
work
on
a
cultural
Corridor
that
knits
these
two
places
together
and
makes
things
more
unified
and
then
you'll
see
in
the
in
the
the
center
of
the
idea
here
is
to
just
say:
let's
not
just
have
one
kind
of
race
tracking
medium,
let's
really
kind
of
think
of
this
as
one
place,
if
you
looked,
you
know
from
an
aerial
photo
and
I.
Think
I
don't
have
one
I
have
one
in
here.
D
If
you
look
on
your
materials,
there
are
a
lot
of
slides
that
are
not
being
shown
today,
but
at
minimum
there's
about
0.6
of
Acres
of
space.
If
you
include
those
streets,
if
you
start
including
the
plaza
for
pack
square,
that
includes
Westpac
square
and
the
space
in
front
of
the
art
museum,
it's
over
an
acre
and
a
half
of
public
space
for
people
right
in
the
heart
of
our
downtown.
D
So
I
mentioned
a
couple
of
them,
but
I
think
you
guys
have
gone
through
this
before
so
to
know
that
this
is
our
first
stop
in
plan
review,
so
downtown
commission
comes
first,
it's
going
to
go
to
Planning
and
Zoning
we're
going
to
the
Buncombe
County
Board
of
Commissioners.
They
are
not
going
to
officially
review
it
at
their
meeting,
but
they're
getting
a
briefing
on
it
because,
as
we
move
forward,
Buncombe
County
is
continue
to
be
a
partner
in
this
process.
Right
because
this,
this
is
the
heart
of
Buncombe
County
as
well,
is.
A
D
Informational
for
them
and
part
of
their
their
thought
process,
moving
forward
for
dedication
of
Staff
resources
or
potentially
in
future
CIP
funding
Cycles.
You
know
to
any
changes
that
might
happen
to
the
park
right
so
that
they're
they're
able
to
kind
of
have
some
influence
now,
but
city
council
will
vote
on
it
and
the
way
we're
doing
this
is
we're
doing
a
full
presentation
to
city
council
almost
like
a
public
hearing
style
we're
going
up
twice
so
we're
going
with
the
presentation
on
9,
12.
D
and
then
on.
926
city
council
will
have
a
vote,
so
the
will
we
we
do
anticipate
that
this
happens.
You've
seen
those
of
you
who
are
watching
city,
council
and
I
know.
Most
of
you
are
fairly
regular.
Now
we
see
that
a
lot
of
people
are
a
lot
of
people
are
coming
out
right
up
like
that
night
of
and
city
council
is
not
necessarily
hearing
all
the
comment
that
they
need
until
that
night.
That's
why
we're
doing
that
twice
and
then
in
October
we
start
with
melogram.
D
So
I
want
to
I'm
going
to
bring
up
Kimberly
Smith
here
in
just
one
second,
but
I
want
to
briefly
make
sure
that
you
all
know
that
this
staff
believes
that
this
is
in
alignment
with
the
downtown
master
plan.
Maybe
I
hope
you
all
are
very
familiar
with
this
beautiful
Matrix
that
we
continue
to
work
on
every
year
and
this
year
we're
even
investing
more
in,
as
we
start
with
our
design
guidelines,
work
yay,
but
you
can
see
the
strategies
on
the
left
hand,
side
and
then
at
the
top.
D
You
see
some
of
the
themes
so
like
for
this
plan.
We
have
10
10
themes
and
10
design
ideas.
The
downtown
master
plan
has
basically
10
strategies
and
10
or
seven
strategies
and
seven
themes
right
so
certainly
for
experiencing
downtown
this
Alliance
really
heavily
with
it,
and
then
there
is
a
section
in
the
plan
that
talks
about
participating
in
the
business
improvement
district,
which
is
now
very
timely,
again
and
managing
downtown
is
strategy
number
seven,
which
is
really
looking
at
public,
private,
Partnerships
and
potentially
a
bid.
D
Similarly,
we
have
a
comprehensive
plan,
that's
adopted,
and
it
aligns
very
well
with
all
of
the
major
themes,
especially
thinking
about
a
livable
built
environment
and
healthy
communities
in
interwoven.
Equity
I'll
say
that
this
this
piece
of
this
work,
while
I'm
not
dwelling
on
it
today.
D
You
all
know
from
hearing
me
last
time
that
the
Mellon
Foundation
Grant
includes
like
over
half
of
that
three
million
dollars
is
going
to
be
spent
working
with
the
block
and
doing
community
engagement
capacity,
building
oral
and
video
histories,
which
is
actually
County,
County
Wide,
but
working
with
them
to
solve
some
of
their
issues
and
really
make
the
two
places
come
together
and
sing.
A
A
Clarification,
the
melon
Grant
and
the
city's
commitment
to
that
process
is
not
particularly
tied
to
whether
or
not
the
the
City
adopts
this
plan.
However,
this
plan,
as
adopted,
would
then
inform
how
the
Milling
Grant
is
is
used
and
applied.
Is
that
is
that
correct.
D
It's
and
we
are
committed
to
doing
some
some
of
that
work-
that's
implied
here,
but
if
you
look
at
the
Mallon
Grant
so
for,
for
example,
I'm
gonna
go
back
and
just
say
that
you
know
share
history
and
address
past
harm.
There's
a
whole
thing
on
here
on,
like
storytelling,
is
important
to
us.
There's
nothing
in
there.
D
That
says
specifically
put
money
aside
and
help
the
Buncombe
County
Special
collections
oral
history
program
by
buying
new
materials
and
training
people
in
the
community,
but
we've
that's
how
we're
implementing
this
plan
and
that's
it
we're
doing
that
with
melon
Grant
funds,
and
that
is
how
planning
works
right
as
we
take
those
themes
and
we
figure
out.
You
know
there
are
some
strategies.
D
Maybe
they
look
a
little
bit
different
I
think
that's
a
great
point
and
I
think
also
to
say
that
as
we
move
forward,
our
ability
to
get
additional
grants
is
buoyed
by
having
an
adopted
plan
as
opposed
to
a
document
or
report
that
was
put
together
and
not
not
adopted
by
an
elected
body.
D
So
that
said,
there
is
a
group
of
people
that
represented
a
variety
of
boards
and
commissions
and
important
groups
in
our
community,
important
neighbors,
important
residents,
important
important,
important
businesses
you'll
see,
for
example,
Tim
rosebrock,
who
works
for
the
Biltmore
company
as
their
VP
for
governmental
Affairs,
he's
been
heavily
participating
in
this
project
and
he's
out
of
town
this
weekend,
but
he's
he's
there
because
we
regularly
meet
with
a
group
of
people
and
where's
Hayden.
D
Thank
you
for
coming
this
week
to
with
a
group
of
business
owners
and
property
managers
and
workers
who
represent
the
folks
that
are
just
on
the
square
and
so
I'm
gonna
see
Gonna
remind
you
that
what
I'm
looking
for
is
a
you
know,
potential
motion
to
recommend
to
city
council
that
they
consider
adopting
or
not
adopting
this
plan,
but
I'll
leave
you
with
some
comments
from
Kimberly
Smith
from
the
Eastern
band
of
Cherokee
Indians
and
the
Wilderness
Society.
Thank
you.
Kimberly.
H
H
We've
been
here
since
time
immemorial.
So
when
I
speak
to
you
today,
I
don't
just
speak.
To
give
my
own
opinion,
I
speak
on
behalf
of
the
Eastern
band
of
Cherokee
Indians
government,
it's
17,
000,
plus
citizens,
and
the
hundreds
of
thousands
of
ancestors
that
now
rest
in
the
dirt
where
the
city
is
built.
H
I
just
want
to
pause
to
give
space
to
that
in
1797,
this
land
was
proclaimed,
Asheville
for
a
thousand
residents
and
enslaved
people,
excluding
from
the
onset,
my
ancestors
and
the
thousands
of
descendants
that
still
live
here
for
tens
of
thousands
of
years.
Before
that
this
land
was
known
to
the
Cherokee
People
as
go
to
Yahtzee
in
English
translation.
That
means
the
place
where
they
race.
H
H
We
appreciate
the
city,
the
city's
inclusion
of
ebci
as
an
advisor,
and
we
hope
that
the
city
looks
at
this
project
as
we
do
an
opportunity
to
invest
in
cultivating
a
stronger
government-to-government
relationship
with
the
Eastern
band
and
addressing
the
details
of
this
pack.
Square
Vision.
The
ebci
appreciates
the
10
design,
ideas
and
the
overall
vision.
A
Very
good
any,
hopefully,
everyone
has
had
a
chance
to
review
the
planning
document,
all
the
materials
most
of
us
have
engaged
with
this
for
quite
a
while.
So
is
there
any
need
for
discussion
or
we
need
any
additional
information?
Okay,
then
I
would
like
to
make
a
motion
that
the
downtown
commission
recommend
to
the
planning
and
zoning
and
to
city
council
that
the
city
of
Asheville
adopt
the
pack
Square
Plaza
visioning.
I
F
F
For
bringing
your
words,
your
language
and
your
history
both
and
your
history
to
this
project
in
this
work,
not
just
across
our
region
but
across
time,
in
the
context
of
what
that
means,
as
we
rebuild
this
space
I,
think
it's
very
powerful.
So
thank
you
for
your
time
and
for
the
evci's
attention
to
this
project
and
sending
you
as
a
representative,
very
much
hope
you
stay
involved.
E
E
Thank
you
and
good
morning,
Commissioners
Dana
Frankel
with
the
planning
department
and
have
a
couple
other
team
members
here
to
help
with
this
presentation,
we
have
been
working
across
departments
collaboratively
on
this
for
quite
some
time
as
I
think
you
all
are
aware.
Those
who
participate
on
the
public
Space
Management
committee
have
gotten
to
see
some
of
this
back
in
the
spring,
but
happy
to
be
here
today,
as
we
move
through
the
formal
process
to
approve
some
updates
to
our
outdoor
dining
program.
E
E
We
recognize
that
these
this
type
of
activation
really
contributes
to
a
safe
and
welcoming
environment
and,
at
the
same
time,
there's
opportunities
to
maximize
public
benefit
and
to
improve
the
way
that
programs
like
this
are
managed
and
with
that
going
into
our
outdoor
dining
program
updates,
we
have
set
out
to
achieve
some
goals
I'm
going
to
go
over
those
that
is
to
support
a
welcoming,
safe
and
active
environment,
to
improve
the
application,
review
and
enforcement
process
to
prioritize
mobility
and
access
for
all,
including
those
with
disabilities.
E
Transition
elements
of
the
AVL
sharespace
temporary
program
that
was
launched
during
covid
continue
to
support
the
success
and
resilience
of
Asheville's
local
economy,
more
appropriately
account
for
the
value
of
commercializing
public
space
through
an
updated
fee
structure
which
you
will
see
and
promote.
Multiple
public
benefits,
maximize
public
benefits
whenever
possible.
So
what
does
that
look
like
exactly?
We
have
moving
forward
with
a
new
outdoor,
dining
ordinance.
We
just
scrapped
the
old
one
because
we're
trying
to
make
it
a
lot
cleaner
and
clearer.
E
E
We
are
working
on
an
outdoor,
dining
guide
that
will
not
go
to
council,
but
that's
something
to
accompany
these
updates
to
make
it
really
easy
and
clear
for
our
business
community
and
for
the
general
public.
What
the
design
standards
are
safety
standards
and
we're,
including
best
practices
within
that
as
well,
to
help
encourage
kind
of
an
elevated
standard
when
possible,
updated
fees
that
will
be
going
to
council
and
those
fees,
support
management
and
goals
of
the
program
moving
forward.
E
E
We
got
a
really
strong
response
to
that
survey
at
the
time.
Just
want
to
point
out
a
couple
of
the
takeaways
from
that
outdoor
dining
was
the
second
most
positive
experience,
people
it's
a
positive
experience
for
people
downtown
second
to
Greenery
and
plantings,
which
contribute
to
a
positive
experience.
When
we
ask,
what's
most
important
folks,
said,
trees
and
shade
is
number
one.
They
said
unobstructed
sidewalk
space
as
number
two.
So,
as
we
can
see
these,
this
is
all
true
and
sometimes
some
of
the
uses
of
public
space
conflict
with
each
other.
E
E
2021
staff
worked
on
taking
everything
we'd
learned
to
develop
some
public
Space
Management
guidelines
follows
up
on
some
recommendations
of
the
downtown
master
plan
related
to
downtown
management
and
kind
of
laid
out
the
trade-offs
and
different
uses
of
public
space,
and
also
recommendations
on
some
priorities.
Moving
forward
in
late
2021,
downtown
commission
and
multimodal
commission
had
a
work
session
to
dig
in
on
some
aspects
of
the
outdoor
dining
program
and
I'm,
going
to
get
to
a
little
bit
of
that.
We've
been
keeping
Council
informed
on
our
work
and
specifically
on
transitioning.
E
E
Yes,
if
fees
are
appropriate,
should
permitting
standards
encourage
businesses
to
remove
items
from
the
sidewalk
when
the
business
is
closed,
we
heard
yes,
these
are
things
we
hadn't
previously
been
doing,
should
Park
lists
and
streeteries
be
open
to
the
public
when
the
business
is
closed.
E
We
heard
yes,
so
with
all
of
that
in
mind,
I'm
going
to
start
with
one
key
update
that
we're
proposing,
and
that
is
encouraging
businesses
when
their
business
is
closed,
to
either
consolidate
their
Furniture,
taking
up
about
25
percent
of
the
space
or
make
that
space
available
to
the
public
after
hours,
and
we
will
be
requiring
signage.
That
indicates
what
those
hours
are
so
say.
There's
picnic
tables
the
public
could
then
use
those
tables
after
hours.
E
I
I
E
C
Good
morning,
Tyler
Kelly
working
the
newly
restructured
planning
department,
development
review
specialists.
Take
you
through
some
of
the
drier
material.
The.
C
Great
stuff,
okay,
all
right,
the
fees
are
being
updated
in
order
to
align
with
the
values
of
the
program
and
enable
improved
operational
management.
You
can
see
on
the
left
our
current
rates,
the
staff
have
done
some
research
to
Benchmark
our
proposed
rates
with
other
cities.
You
can
see
that
on
the
right.
C
C
A
Nobody
wants
to
go
there
anyway,
so
who
cares?
Okay,
I'm,
just
checking
I,
hope,
they're.
C
Listening
so
it's
based
on
the
amount
of
space
used
for
outdoor
dining
permit
holder,
create
a
partial
cost
recovery
for
public
space,
Revenue
lost
and
City
staff
time
needed
for
review
in
the
new
inspection
process
and,
as
Dana
mentioned
before,
the
public
use
fee
to
create
an
incentive
to
keep
public
space
open
after
business
hours
through
the
public
use
fee.
Alongside
the
oh
I
think
we'll
shift.
A
B
D
B
E
That
looks
like
what
happens
now,
so
I
can't
say
that
it
always
works
perfectly,
but
the
business
is
responsible
for
Mana
generally
for
management
of
that
space.
B
E
B
E
An
additional
fee
layer
and
I
I
will
take
this
opportunity
to
mention
with
that
fee.
The
idea
is
also
that
that
new
Revenue
could
get
invested
in
TBD,
but
it
could
support
businesses
to
build
parklets
or
streeteries.
It
could
support
a
place
making
or
public
space
Improvement
project.
It
is
an
additional
layer
in
order
to
support
goals
of
the
program
and
eventually
support
improvements
to
public
space.
J
So
the
ordinance
is
going
to
be
paired
with
an
outdoor
dining
guide,
and
this
is
going
to
have
a
lot
of
Graphics
like
the
one
you
see
here,
which
is
going
to
show
how
you
actually
apply
these
standards
to
your
site
plan
and
the
design
and
then
we'll
also
have
best
practices
which
will
be
you
know,
not
requirements,
but
things
that
we're
encouraging.
And
hopefully
this
will
make
it
really
easy
for
the
applicants
to
kind
of
move
through
the
process.
G
A
A
a
question
regarding
design
so
I
see
that
you're
talking
about
avoid
placing
trees
over
tree,
placing
entries
exit
over
tree
pits.
Things
like
that.
So
is.
G
A
Streetery
responsible
for
any
damage
that
occurs
to
any
public
property
or
and
and
vegetation
in
this
in
this
model.
A
Okay
and
as
a
as
a
code,
compliance
question,
so
when
I
do
a
restaurant
now
and
I
I
plan
for
the
restaurant,
if
I
have
an
exterior
space
that
I've
got
to
do,
I've
got
to
include
that
in
my
Plumbing
count.
In
other
words,
I
have
to
provide
restrooms
for
not
only
what's
inside
the
building,
but
for,
however,
many
occupants
are
outside
the
building.
I
A
G
A
Can
build
a
kitchen
in
in
400
square
feet
in
a
little
corner
somewhere,
rent
half
the
the
the
place
have
one
bathroom
my
overheads
here.
My
revenues
here:
I'm
I'm,
a
I'm,
a
min
max
gamer,
so
I
automatically
start
looking
for
how
to
exploit
your
loopholes
and
I'm.
Just
asking
if
you've
thought
of
that,
we.
A
Yeah
well,
but
but
it's
the
public,
health
safety
and
Welfare.
So
as
a
designer,
you
know
we
run
into
this
all
the
time
where
they're
like
hey,
you
know,
you've
got
this
patio.
You've
got
400
people
out
there
and
you
got
one
restroom.
What
are
you
doing.
I
A
Would
absolutely
be
required
to
because
that
goes
into
the
account.
You
know
if
I
go
through
the
bill
and
I've
got
servers
out
there.
You
know
there's
Health
regulations
with
that,
as
the
occupant
load
goes
up,
how
many
hand
washing
stations
do
you
have
for
the
kitchen,
so
on
so
forth?
So
all
of
those
things
go
together
and
you
know
if
you're,
adding
three
tables
outside
in
a
you
know:
streetery:
okay,
that's
one
thing,
but
I'm
thinking
as
a
enterprising
individual
is
going
to
look
at
this
and
go
yeah.
A
I
can
make
this
work
for
me
so
and
I'm
it's
not
that
I
don't
want
to.
Let
them
make
it
work
for
them,
but
I
also
want
them.
One
of
the
things
that
you
said
earlier
is
that
we
also
want
to
maintain
our
existing
businesses
and
we
want
to
have
equal
weights
and
measures
for
lack
of
a
better
term
with
with
our
restaurants
that
maybe
can't
access
a
street.
So
anyway,.
J
E
I
think
it's
a
great
point
and
honestly
half
of
the
work
that
we've
been
doing
is
trying
up
the
way
that
we're
this
program
and
in
taking
applications
during
covid
when
we
launched
the
temporary
stuff
it
kind
of
opened
the
whole
can
of
all
the
things
that
have
been
happening
for
the
last
since
1991
when
this
was
created.
So
we
absolutely
are
aware
of
that
possibility
and.
A
Then
a
question
regarding
this
Adrian
I'm
going
to
ask
your
question.
So
if
you've
got
a
streetery,
you've
got
a
busker
and
the
buskers
out
there
playing
and
the
streetery
folks,
don't
like
it
who
wins.
E
A
I
E
F
F
F
J
G
I
A
E
It's
a
great
question:
there
are
benefits
to
activating
public
space,
specifically
through
outdoor
dining
and
in
other
ways
that
contributes
to
visibility
on
the
street
activities.
Safety,
vibrancy
supporting
you
know,
businesses
to
have
that
commercial
activity
of
a
vehicle
and
a
parking
space
does
not
contribute
those
same
benefits
at
this
moment,
we're
not
offering
businesses
to
lease
or
utilize
the
space
in
any
other
way.
It
would
be
specifically
for
outdoor
dining.
A
E
We
have
a
push,
cart
program
and
people
have
the
ability
to
sell
merchandise
or
food.
Through
the
push
cart
program,
we
have
open
locations
pretty
much
all
the
time
that
people
can
participate
that
at
this
time,
we're
not
including
merchandise
as
part
of
the
program
and
there's
a
few
reasons
for
that
during
covid.
We
provided
that
opportunity
and
re.
It
didn't
make
sense
for
retailers.
For
you
know
we
could
go.
E
Has
only
made
sense
for
outdoor
dining
businesses,
okay,
it's
a
this
is
a
starting
place.
This
doesn't
mean
so
from
here.
It
would
be
much
easier
for
the
city
to
offer
merchandising
opportunities,
public
parklets,
which
this
is
not
this.
These
are
Commercial
Business
managed
parklets,
but
this
is
this
is
what
we've
seen
that
there's
interest
in
to
this
point,
and
so
this
is
where
we're
starting.
F
I
got
a
quick
question
kind
of
combine
something
that
Steph
said
earlier.
What
Noor
said
active
spaces
or
safer
spaces?
Is
there
a
use
it
or
lose
it
component?
To
this,
like,
let's
say
that
somebody
wants,
you
know,
creates
gets,
you
know,
does
a
sidewalk
dining
and
they
don't
do
anything
with
it.
They
just
sort
of
rope
it
off
and
there's
no
actual
activity
there.
They,
for
whatever
reason
they
desire
a
buffer
between
their
private
business
and
the
public
world
and
they're
just
gonna.
F
E
That
is
allowed
and
we
are
adding
multiple
layers
through
this.
These
proposed
updates
to
discourage
that
so
because
of
the
per
square
foot
fee.
Because
of
that
you
know
it's
only
it's
only
500
a
year,
but
because
of
the
public
space
use
fee,
that's
also
discouraged.
Do
businesses
have
that
option?
Yes,
is
what
we're
proposing
an
effort
to
discourage
that?
Yes,.
E
K
So
if
you
can't
bolt
something
down,
so
let's
take
carmel's,
for
example,
they
don't
have
picnic
tables,
they
have
Bistro
sets,
they
can't
vote
them
down,
but
they
have
to
rope
them
up
or
they
will
get
stolen.
So
they
are
now
being
charged
five
hundred
dollars
to
then
have
to
rope
them
off
because
they
don't
want
someone
else
using
them,
because
you
can't
use
them
when
they're
tied
together.
G
E
Two
things:
there
are
different
ways:
heavy
items
are
not
bolted
in
so
part
of
the
reason
for
not
allowing
things
to
be
permanently.
Bolted
is
just
because
of
that
damage
to
the
public
infrastructure.
I
want
to
also
make
it
clear
that
we're
not
going
to
be
asking
businesses
to
rip
their
stuff
out
so
if
and
when
carmels
decides
to
do
a
remodel
of
their
outdoor
dining
space.
Yes,
we're
looking
for
businesses
to
follow
these
guidelines,
but
we're
not
going
to
be
asking
people
to
rip
existing
structures
out.
E
There
is
also
going
to
continue
to
be
a
path
forward
if
people
really
need
and
want
to
have
permanent
structures
in
the
right-of-way,
but
that
will
be
a
separate.
You
know
through
Public
Works
encroachment
process.
The
encroachment
process
right
now
is
currently
part
of
outdoor
dining.
It's
very
messy
we're
trying
to
make
the
outdoor
dining
program
a
lighter
use
of
public
space,
and
so
so
there's
still
options.
E
E
Depending
on
how
they're
chained
together
and
I
know,
this
is
weedy,
but
I
appreciate
the
questions.
If
it's
not
available
to
be
used,
then
then
no
they
would
be
asked
to
pay
that
500
fee.
E
A
Like
the
really
wonderful
covered,
kiosk
guys.
A
I
E
I
E
No,
we
have
to
for
a
parklet,
there
are
I
mean
you
got
to
meet
standards
and
we
haven't
gotten
to
it
yet,
but
you're
going
to
have
to
go
through
a
review
process,
we're
actually
going
to
send
those
through
TRC.
It
is
a
structure.
So
no,
you
can't
just
have
an
open
space.
It's
the
most
efficient
thing
to
to
do.
A
C
C
Alongside
the
new
ordinance
and
guide
we're
establishing
a
new
review
process,
so
we've
been
working
to
develop
a
user-friendly
process
that
will
help
ensure
success
of
applicants
and
protect
the
important
important
elements
of
public
space
and
the
TRC
will
serve
as
a
review,
but
also
a
great
resource
for
getting
those
streeteries.
Those
structures
established
in
a
safe
and
effective
Manner
and
help
you
with
the
design
Etc
so
so
included.
Comprehensive
review
of
applications
for
Compliance,
New,
annual
inspection
process
and
proactive
checks
for
compliance
with
standards
within
the
public
spaces.
So
review
inspection
compliance.
C
Here's
a
little
bit
more
stretched
out
review
process
for
each
so
streetery
you
would
go.
You
know,
do
a
coordinated
review
with
planning
and
Urban
Design.
We
obviously
offer
early
assistance
pre-application
meetings.
Then
you
have
the
technical,
Review
Committee,
which
you'll
have
the
you
know.
You'll
have
fire
zoning
planning.