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From YouTube: Historic Resources Commission
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B
Good
afternoon
I'm
chair
kite,
and
I
would
like
to
welcome
you
to
the
december
9th
2020
historic
resources
commission
meeting
the
hrc
is
a
quasi-judicial
body
that
is
governed
by
north
carolina
general
statutes,
the
city
of
asheville's,
unified
development,
ordinance
and
bunken
county
ordinance.
We
are
authorized
to
hear
requests
for
certificates
of
appropriateness
for
alterations,
demolitions,
new
construction
and
other
work
within
historic
districts
or
for
the
alteration
and
demolition
of
historic
landmarks
and
other
duties,
including
preliminary
review
of
subdivisions
as
specified
in
the
ordinance
for
the
hrc.
B
All
commissioners
and
staff
are
participating.
Virtually.
We
appreciate
appreciate
your
patience
as
we
work
through
commission
meetings
a
bit
differently
than
normal.
We
are
streaming
live
on
the
city's
virtual
engagement
hub,
which
is
accessible
through
the
virtual
engagement
hub
link
on
the
front
page
of
the
city's
website,
as
well
as
through
the
link
on
the
hrc
webpage.
B
855-925-2801
and
entering
code
9384
welcome
to
all
of
you
that
are
joining
us
today.
I
will
now
ask
the
commission
members
who
are
participating
to
introduce
ourselves
I'd
like
to
extend
a
warm
welcome
to
james
coman.
This
is
he
is
a
new
newly
appointed
commissioner,
and
this
is
his
first
meeting
today.
So
welcome
james.
Please
make
sure,
commissioners
that
you
mute
your
microphone
if
you're,
not
speaking,
and
when
you
have
a
question
or
would
like
to
speak,
you
can
unmute
your
microphone
and
please
remember
to
re-mute
yourself
after
you're
done
speaking
commission
members.
B
B
Hi
commissioner,
mercedes
hi,
commissioner
coleman
hi
commissioner
gardner
hello,
commissioner
hornaday
hi,
commissioner
mitchell.
D
B
B
B
Second,
okay,
that
was
a
motion
by
vice
chair
eakins
and
a
second
by
commissioner
watson.
I
will
roll
call
vote
vice
chair,
eakins.
E
F
A
B
We
are
now
ready
to
begin
the
evidentiary
hearings
for
the
items
listed
on
the
agenda
as
a
quasi-judicial
proceeding.
The
hrc
is
not
setting
policy,
nor
are
we
soliciting
public
opinion
on
the
desirability
of
an
application.
B
The
hrc
hears
and
considers
evidence
presented
and
applies
the
standards
set
forth
in
the
guidelines
and
standards
of
the
specific
historic
district
for
that
application.
The
hrc
must
make
its
decision
upon
competent
material
and
substantial
evidence
to
determine
the
facts
of
the
hearing.
The
hrc
will
use
judgment
and
discretion
to
apply
the
standards
contained
in
the
relevant
guidelines
to
the
facts.
B
The
rules
for
speaking
this
meeting
is
open
to
the
public,
but
participation
is
limited
to
interest
interested
parties
to
which
to
provide
or
comment
provide
comment
or
testimony
regarding
the
proposal,
if
you
will
be
speaking
as
a
witness,
please
focus
on
the
facts
of
how
they
relate
to
the
relevant
historic
district
standards
and
guidelines,
not
personal
preference
or
opinion
witnesses
must
swear
or
affirm
their
testimony.
At
this
time,
I
will
administer
the
oath
for
all
individuals
who
intend
to
provide
witness.
C
Church
heights,
so
it's
just
myself
and
the
applicant
maggie
bevel
aqua
that
need
to
be
sworn
in
today.
Okay,.
B
C
B
And
maggie
I
do
okay,
we
will
move
to
our
first
public
hearing
item.
I
think
that
is
old
business
at
122
west
chestnut
street,
which
I
think
we
need
to
continue
to
january.
A
G
H
I
I
I
I
C
C
I
Hold
on
I
ever
gotta
have
youtube
open.
I'm
gonna
go
ahead
and
youtube.
I'm
gonna
go
ahead
and
mute
the
conference
bridge
while
it
is
working
on
this,
so
I
just
want
to
let
you
know.
Oh.
I
C
C
C
I
I
Of
the
whole
screen
sure.
I
I
J
J
I
C
B
C
Yes,
ma'am
give
me
just
a
second.
Let
me
I've
got
so
many
different
things
pulled
up
to
try
to
figure
out
what
we
were
working
on
here.
Okay,
let's
see
and
go
back
to
presenting
a
different.
C
C
So
I
did
not
create
a
sorry.
Let
me
go
back
and
say
my
name
is
alex
cole,
I'm
a
historic
preservation
planner
with
the
planning
and
urban
design
department.
This.
The
first
item
is
application
for
this
house
on
magnolias
avenue.
I
did
not
create
a
separate
presentation
kind
of
show,
like
I
have
done
the
past
several
months,
since
we
only
have
this
one
item
and
it's
a
pretty
simple
project.
C
So
this
is
just
some
context
showing
the
front
and
the
the
east
elevation
of
the
house
where
the
property
owner
is
just
proposing
to
change
a
single
window.
Or
can
you
can
you
all
see
the
the
tab
I'm
presenting?
Okay.
C
Yes,
okay,
cool,
so
the
so
the
proposal
is
just
to
alter
one
window
opening
on
the
back
corner
of
the
house.
You
can
see
that
the
existing
opening
or
original
window,
if
there,
if
it
wasn't
original
opening
the
the
window,
is
gone
and
and
it
has
already
been
modified.
So
the
proposal
is
just
to
change
that
opening
to
a
smaller
awning
window
and
it's
a
pretty
straightforward
request
and
it's
on
a
non-character.
Defining
elevation
and
staff
does
not
have
any
concerns
but
happy
to
answer
any
questions.
If
you
all
have
any.
B
B
Madam
chair,
we
do
not
have
any
callers,
then
we
will
close
the
floor
for
public
comment.
Commissioners,
any
additional
discussion.
A
B
E
German,
based
upon
the
evidence
presented
to
this
commission,
including
exhibit
a
project
description,
exhibit
b,
photographs
of
subject
property
and
renderings
three
pages
and
the
commission's
actual
inspection
and
review
of
subject
property
by
all
members,
except
I
move
that
this
commission
approved
the
certificate
of
appropriateness
based
on
the
following
one
that
the
application
is
to
modify
existing
previously
altered
window.
Opening
on
east
elevation,
opening
will
be
shortened
and
one
new
six
light.
Wood
awning
window
will
be
installed,
wood,
lap,
siding
and
trim
surrounding
window
will
be
restored
to
match
existing
siding
and
trim.
E
E
Two
that
the
standards
for
windows
and
doors
found
on
pages
84
and
85
and
materials
would
on
pages
66
and
67
of
the
montford
historic
district
design
standards
adopted
april
14,
2010
and
amended
december
11
2019
were
used
to
amend,
to
evaluate
this
request.
Three,
this
application
does
meet
the
design
guidelines
for
the
following
reasons.
A
new
window
will
be
wood
and
compatible
with
the
overall
design
of
the
building
b.
New
window
will
be
located
within
an
existing
previously
altered,
opening
c
window
opening
being
modified
is
on
a
non-character.
E
B
A
G
B
E
B
The
second
by
commissioner
watson,
roll
call
vote
vice
chair,
eakins
hi
vice
commissioner
mercedes.
C
G
H
B
That
concludes,
I
believe,
alex
the
applications
for
this
on
this
agenda.
C
C
So
now
all
we
have
is
other
business,
which
just
has
the
one
item
that
I
messaged
you
all
about
earlier
today
to
give
some
context
to
the
item
about
the
soundly
award,
discussion
and
I'll.
Let
mr
hornaday
chime
in
here,
because
he
had
more
kind
of
firsthand
conversation
about
this
than
I
did.
But
so
this
conversation
was
initiated
in
the
spring
between
mr
hornaday
and
andrea
clarke
when
we
were
awarding
her
the
sonley
award
during
the
our
normal
time
of
year
when
we
award
the.
C
But
suddenly
some
questions
came
up
around
stanley
as
a
person
and
his
history
and
potential
as
an
out
as
being
known
as
outwardly
racist.
So
so
I
I
also
included
in
the
documents
the
the
for
some
of
our
newer
commissioners.
There.
We
have
a
document
that
lists
all
the
people
that
have
been
awarded
the
family
since
1988
and
as
well
as
like
a
description
of
of
how
the
award
is
given.
C
In
that
document
we
did
not
have
a
fully
a
more
fully
fleshed
out
understanding
of
his
history
and
character
as
a
person,
so
katherine
cutshall
from
buncombe
county
special
collections
is
here
with
us
today.
She
graciously
offered
to
help
us
and
do
has
done
some
great
research
and
there
so
there's
a
two
page
document
in
there
as
well.
C
For
you
all
to
read
through
that,
has
some
really
helpful,
enlightening
information,
I
think
about
sonley
as
a
person,
and
so
today
I
think
the
goal
is
to
open
up
discussion
and
hear
thoughts
on
potentially
changing
the
name
of
the
soundly
award
and
then
what
and
I'll
let
share
kite
and
you
all
kind
of
give
direction
on
this.
C
But
what
I
was
kind
of
thinking
that
might
work
best
is,
if
we
kind
of
have
general
discussion
today
and
then
we
take
away
kind
of
you
know
what
information
is
shared
and
then
we
revisit
this
at
the
next
meeting.
You
know
based
on
kind
of
the
discussion
today.
You
know
whether
we
want
to,
if
you
all
feel
like
it's
the
right
thing
to
rename
it
then
you
know
who
should
we
consider
renaming
it
for?
Should
it
be
a
person?
You
know
those
are
all
things
we
we
should
talk
through.
C
So
I'm
interested
to
hear
all
of
your
thoughts,
and
I
will
turn
it
over
to
catherine.
If
you
want
to
introduce
yourself
and
talk
a
little
bit
about
what
you
found
in
your
research.
D
Sure,
thanks
alex,
like
alex
said,
my
name
is
catherine
calhoun
cutshall,
I'm
the
collections
manager
at
what
most
of
you
probably
know
as
the
north
carolina
room
in
january,
we're
going
to
change
to
buncombe
county
special
collections
because
we're
changing
our
collection
scope
just
a
little
bit
and
refocusing
on
buncombe,
county
and
asheville
and
western
north
carolina
so
be
looking
forward
to
that
change
and
a
lot
of
other
really
cool
things
going
on
in
that
space.
D
Right
now
so,
like
alex
said,
I
wrote
up
a
very
brief,
not
particularly
well
cited
document,
but
none
of
it
is
more
than
general
information.
So
no
some
big
surprises
in
there
and
I'll.
Just
tell
you
a
little
bit
about
who
sonley
was
and
what
sonley's
relationship
to
the
library
and
history
and
heritage
in
buncombe
county
is
so
sonley
foster
sonley,
it's
sometimes
spelled
forster,
but
he
mostly
went
by
f
a
soundly
and
it's
spelled
foster
on
his
headstone.
D
So
you
know
take
it
for
what
you
will.
His
grandparents
were
james
mitchell,
alexander
and
rhoda
cunningham
alexander.
D
So
that's
his
personal
background.
He
then
went
on
to
study.
At
wofford
college
came
back
to
asheville
and
read
for
the
bar.
He
became
one
of
the
most
important
and
influential
civic
attorneys
in
the
southeast.
Really
he
argued
hundreds
of
cases
before
the
north
carolina
supreme
court,
lots
of
civil
cases
in
superior
and
like
local
courts
as
well,
but
around
1905
sort
of
at
the
peak
of
his
career
really
soundly
decided
to
kind
of
go
into
semi-retirement
and
turn
to
history,
so
in
1905
sonley
begins
amassing
a
an
enormous.
D
Antique
firearms
so
soundly
would
allow
people
into
his
library.
It
was
a
very
kind
of
hot
and
posh
tourist
destination.
D
D
You
know
dozens
of
pieces
of
art,
particularly
oriental
art,
and
he
willed
all
of
that
to
the
city
of
asheville.
He
had
no
heirs,
he
never
was
married,
so
in
1931,
all
of
those
possessions
went
to
the
city
of
asheville
and
were
stored
in
city
hall
until
1945
or
43,
rather
when
they
were
moved
to
pak
memorial
library.
D
D
The
will
was
often
used.
The
will
and
also
I
guess
you
would
call
it
a
title
on
this.
The
library
property
where
the
art
museum
is
today
was
racially
restricted.
D
So
while
there
were
multiple
attempts,
even
as
early
as
the
1930s
to
integrate
the
library
system
at
the
asheville
buncombe
library
system,
because
of
the
saundry
will
inciting,
this
only
will
did
not
absorb
the
eagle
market
street
branch
of
the
library,
which
was
known
as
the
colored
library
until
1951
and
despite
repeated
requests
for
african-american
children,
especially
to
receive
library
cards
and
to
be
able
to
use
the
resources
in
the
sandley
library
for
school
work,
the
library
was
not
integrated
until
1961,
and
it
was
due
to
pressure
from
the
group
known
as
ace
core.
D
The
asheville
student
committee
on
racial
equality
and
sondley's
legacy
is
really
complicated.
The
materials
in
the
sandley
library
are
really
complicated.
D
So
some
of
that
is-
and
you
can
find
this
in
the
document-
you
can
really
gather
sondley's
interest
by
looking
at
the
collection
right
he's
going
to
collect
what
he's
most
interested
in.
So
there's
a
huge
amount
of
what
we
lovingly
call
ologies.
D
He
was
really
into
geology
and
hydrology
in
biology
and
was
a
member
of
the
mount
mitchell
association
for
arts
and
sciences,
which
is
now
the
the
elijah
mitchell
audubon
group
here
in
town.
Some
of
his
books
included
all
the
first
editions
of
thomas
e
dickson
jr's
novels.
You
probably
know
him
best.
D
The
movie
script
for
a
birth
of
a
nation
dixon
was
also
a
member
of
the
mount
mitchell
society
for
arts
and
sciences,
and
so
it's
definitely
not
a
stretch
to
think
that
they
were
friends,
especially
considering
one
of
the
things
we
have
in
our
collection
is
the
original
handwritten
and
pencil
draft
manuscript
of
the
leopard
spots,
which
was
dixon's
first
novel,
so
soundly
got
his
hands
on
that.
Somehow
he
also
has
a
lot
of
books
on
scientific
racism
and
eugenics.
D
He
was
usually
very
good
to
his
books,
as
in
you
know,
taking
very
good
care
of
them,
not
writing
in
them,
but
in
a
lot
of
his
eugenics
books,
you'll
find
phrases
and
sentences
underlined.
So
all
of
these
things
put
together
give
us
a
hint
at
what
sonley's
feelings
about
race
were
now.
Sandli
was
never
at
least
looking
at
newspapers.
D
I've
been
digging
through
court
cases.
This
collection
is
so
large
and
requires
a
lot
of
skill
that
my
predecessors
did
not
have,
and-
and
so
I'm
just
now
really
getting
into
some
of
his
personal
effects.
His
letters
and
you
know
other
papers
so
well,
there's
still
a
lot
more
to
try
to
find
out
about
sondley's
public
position
on
race,
but
it
is
definitely
not
a
stretch
for
me
to
believe
that
that
was
that
what
his
opinions
were,
it's
not
hard
to
come
to
the
conclusion
that
sonley
was
a
white
supremacist.
D
So
one
of
the
reasons,
my
guess
is
that
somley
award
is
named
after
sonley
is
because
he
has.
He
was
responsible
for
writing
the
history
of
buncombe
county.
It's
just
called
a
history
of
buncombe
county
in
two
volumes
and
he
also
wrote
hundreds
of
other
works.
Most
of
them
are
quite
small.
They
were
sort
of
like
asheville
history
articles
for
the
newspaper.
D
He
also
collected
a
lot
of
what
we
would
call
today
oral
histories
with
older
folks
around
him,
and
so
you
have
a
lot
of
his
scribbled
notes
from
folks
who,
were
you
know,
30
or
40
50
years
older
than
he.
D
But
as
a
as
a
trained
historian,
I'm
going
to
tell
you
what
really
irks
me
about
soundly
is
that,
despite
the
fact
that
he
was
a
very,
very
well-read
person,
you
know
he
had
a
30
000
volume
library
he
his
writing
about
buncombe
county's
history
includes
almost
zero
analysis,
almost
nothing
and,
of
course
it
wasn't
necessarily
common
in
that
time.
To
cite
things
none
of
it's
really
cited
and
it
lacks
objectivity
altogether.
D
When
you
read
through
a
history
of
buncombe
county
with
a
lens
to
reading
it.
As
like
a
real
history
of
buncombe
county,
you
see
that
there's
huge
gaps
in
omissions
that
we're
focusing
on
the
same
four
or
five
families
for
long
stretches
of
time,
and
you
sort
of
leave
wondering
okay.
Well,
what
about
you
know
all
all
kinds
of
different
things?
D
He
was
really
all
about
this,
this
idea
of
manifest
destiny
and
the
great
march
toward
human
progress,
so
I'll
quit
rambling
about
soundly,
because
I'll
do
a
much
better
job
of
just
answering
questions
that
you
might
have
about
him
in
his
life,
the
collection
and
what
we
really
know
about
him.
As
a.
E
D
No,
with
the
exception
of
his
pamphlet,
I
mentioned
earlier
called
negro
songs,
and
this
is
actually
turned
out
to
be
one
of
the
most
important
pieces
in
the
entire
collection.
Folks,
like
james
keith
and
phil
jameson
at
warren,
wilson
college,
our
folklorists
and
musicologists,
and
it's
helped
them
a
lot
a
great
deal.
It's
essentially,
he
says
in
his
introduction
songs.
He
remembers
hearing
sung
on
on
his
grandmother's
plantation,
but
yeah
other
than
that,
the
folks
that
he
does
oral
histories
with
it's.
D
It's
not
exactly
right
to
call
them
that,
but
that's
kind
of
what
they
are.
They
were.
You
know
civil
war
generals,
important
local
attorneys,
other
wealthy
gentlemen,
in
fact,
he,
the
only
woman
he
ever
wrote
about
was
his
mother.
He
wrote
a
three
volume
biography
of
his
mother.
G
C
That's
a
great
question
and
I
I
want
to
try
to
tap
mr
coman
as
a
potential
resource
on
that,
but
also
I
am
admittedly
sometimes
at
a
challenge
lately
because
I'm
not
in
my
office
very
often
like
maybe
once
a
month
and
we
have
all
kinds
of
random
old
files
and
so
I'll
be
up
there
next
week
and
go
make
a
note
to
myself
to
see.
If
I
can
dig
through
to
see
if
we
have
like
you
know
anything
in
our
files.
C
That
kind
of
might
help
us
understand,
but
my
guess
is
like
what
catherine
pointed
out
that
it's
it's
he
you
know
then,
was
an
obvious
choice.
I
think,
because
he's
kind
of
known
as
like
this
like
grandfather
of
buncombe
county
history,
if
you
will
you
know,
and
so
that's
it.
My
guess
is
that
it's
pretty
straightforward
but
but
I'll
see.
If
I
can
unearth
anything
that
might
be
helpful
for
the
to
add
to
the
discussion.
C
But
mr
hammond,
I
don't
do
you
were
you
working
with
buncombe
county
when
the
san
lean
award
was
first
initiated?
I
can't
remember
when
you
started
with
the
county.
C
K
K
D
Yeah,
jim,
I'm
glad
you
brought
that
up,
because
one
of
our
recent
discoveries
in
in
reprocessing,
the
sandley
collection,
is
that
poor
pony's
shoe.
K
Yes,
I
understand
that
he
did
have
a
good
collection
of
confederate
artifacts,
numerous
weapons
that
were
involved
in
civil
war.
He
collected
confederate
battle
flags
and,
in
fact,
had
a
battle
flag
hanging
over
his
bed
until
the
day
he.
D
Died
yeah.
We
have
our
civil
war
collection.
There
was
never
a
an
entire
audit
of
this.
Only
collection,
lots
of
it
actually
went
missing
when
it
moved
from
city
hall
to
pack
memorial
library
in
1943,
in
particular
his
collection
of
lewd
images,
and
so
anyway,
no
one
really
knows
the
scope
of
the
collection,
but
our
civil
war
collection
is
mostly
money
and
battle
flags
and
other
types
of
memorabilia
that,
I
think,
are
part
of
the
original
sonlen
collection.
D
But
one
of
the
things
that
I
mentioned
in
the
document
that
I
think
folks
should
really
think
about
is
lost,
cause
ideology
and
sondley's
attachment
to
that.
It
was
sondley's
belief
and
we
can
see
this
in
most
of
his
historical
writings
that
you
know
the
south
was
fighting
for
a
very
worthy
cause
during
the
civil
war
and
that
you
know
puts
a
a
very
heroic
and
romantic
spin
on
the
old
south.
He
likes
to
use
that
term
a
lot,
the
old
south,
the
old
south
or
antebellum.
D
It's
also,
I
think
worth
noting
that
he
never
actually
used
the
term
the
civil
war
and
granted
that
term
didn't
really
come
into
use
until
the
20th
century,
when
folks
were
a
little
more
removed
from
it,
but
he
often
used
you
know
the
rebellion,
our
rebellion.
D
So
that's
worth
thinking
about
as
well.
It.
K
G
Well
I'll
I'll
just
say
that,
to
the
extent
that
we're
considering
changing
the
name
of
the
award,
I
think
that
we
should
be
as
inclusive
as
possible
and
to
the
extent
that
a
potential
recipient-
and
you
know
basically
our
lifetimes
were-
is
considering
turning
down
an
award
given
by
a
unit
of
local
government.
We
should
really
really
reflect
on
that.
C
I
agree
and
thanks
for
making
that
statement,
then
I
in
some
ways
and
I'm
interested
to
hear
what
all
of
you
think.
But
if,
if
it's
the
same
in
any
you
know,
it
seems
the
same
to
me
as
the
advanced
monument
or
any
confederate
monument
where,
even
if
it
evokes
the
feeling
that
of
not
being
inclusive
or
you
know
remotely
in
in
in
a
racist
way
I
and
or
harmful
way
to
anyone.
I
think
we
should
think
think
really
hard
about
about
renaming
or,
as
you
said
reflecting.
F
It
was
awkward
when
I
talked
to
andrea
about
this.
She
was
it
made
me
feel
terrible,
the
because
I
had
no
idea
and
to
put
her
in
the
position
of
of
that.
That's
why
this
sort
of
came
up.
So
I
agree
with
what
ben
was
saying.
A
D
Our
solid
foundation
is
and
as
part
of
the
redesign
of
our
space,
we're,
including
despite
the
fact
that
the
the
primary
idea
is
to
center
the
voices
of
black
folks
and
women
in
our
new
design,
we're
still
including
sondley,
first
of
all,
because
we're
legally
obligated
to
mark
off
a
section
of
the
library
as
the
sondley
reference
library,
but
also
to
give
folks
an
idea
of
soundly
as
a
person
and
soundly
as
a
contributor
to
local
history
and
why
archives
are
important
because
we're
able
to
go
back
and
really
look
at
all
of
sandley's
papers
and
say:
okay,
here's
where
what
his
thinking
was:
here's
where
he
got
this
information
and
how
do
we
as
researchers
today
do
that
differently.
D
So,
in
some
ways
he's
this
really
amazing
case
study
for
what
history
was
like
and
how
history
was
done,
especially
by
by
lay
people
in
the
19.
You
know
20s
and
30s.
D
So
there
are
lots
of
you
know:
wonderful
benefits
to
sonley's
collection
still
being
around
and
of
course,
like
I
said,
the
history
of
buncombe
county.
We
refer
to
it
in
special
collections
as
the
bible.
D
If
folks
come
to
me-
and
they
have
a
you
know,
like
a
general
buncombe
county
history,
question
that
none
of
my
staff
can
answer
necessarily
quickly.
We
sit
down
three
things
in
front
of
that
person.
One
is
john
preston
arthur's,
the
history
of
western
north
carolina.
D
The
next
one
is
ora
blackmon's,
a
history
of
western
north
carolina
and
then
the
third
is
the
history
of
buncombe
county,
because
those
three
are
sort
of
our
trifecta
of
general
knowledge
of
buncombe
county.
So
you
know
it's
he's.
Definitely
he
definitely
contributed
to
writing
the
history
of
asheville,
but
you
know,
like
some
of
you
have
said
if
it
makes
one
person
uncomfortable.
D
You
know
why.
Why
continue
to
do
something
that
way
and-
and
that's
a
big
part
of
what
we're
doing
at
special
collections
is
saying
you
know
if
it
makes
high
school
students
uncomfortable
to
you
know
the
first
thing
they
see
when
they
walk
in
a
room
is
a
giant
painting
of
thomas
wolfe
staring
down
at
them.
Then,
let's
think
about
how
we
can
integrate
these
things
in
a
way
that
feels
more
comfortable
to
everybody
and
just
makes
history
more
accessible.
B
You
mentioned
to
me
in
a
previous
conversation
that,
in
general,
the
city
of
asheville
is
moving
away
from
naming
awards
and
other
recognitions
on
historical
folks
kind
of
as
a
as
a
precedent
sort
of
moving
forward,
and
I
think
that
is
worth
noting.
I
would
agree
that
that
there's
not
a
particularly
compelling
reason
for
me
to
continue
to
make
people
uncomfortable
in
awarding
something
which
we're
intending
to
be
an
honor,
and
if
it's
not
received
that
way,
then
then
I
think
there's
there's
not
a
real
compelling
reason
to
keep
the
name.
B
The
way
that
it
is.
I
do
think
there
is
what
I
think
frustrates
me
sometimes
about
this
particular
conversation
and
the
response
that
we
have
to
immediately
change.
The
name
of
something
is
a
missed
opportunity
around
education
and
history
is
going
to
be
uncomfortable
and
I
think,
what's
valuable
about
sandley's
collection
is
the
depth
to
which
we
have
those
resources
now
and
that
we
can't
just
dismiss
what
what
happened.
There
is
an
opportunity
for
hrc
to
and
the
city
to
take
a
position.
B
That
is
a
change
moving
forward
and
an
opportunity
to
have
a
narrative
around
that.
That
is
educational,
and
I
think
that
there
to
to
miss
that
opportunity
and
just
change
the
name
would
be.
B
I
think,
unfortunate,
because
we
do
want
to
learn
from
what
that
was
and
talk
about
it
and
get
in
the
midst
of
it
as
a
as
a
community
and
grow
out
of
that
in
a
positive
and
productive
way,
and
so
I
think
there
it
goes
maybe
beyond
in
some
ways
as
a
community,
just
the
changing
of
the
name
of
the
award,
which
I
think
is
only
one
part
of
the
conversation
and
that
without
sanlee's
collection,
you
know
we
have
a
unique
opportunity,
maybe
in
this
community,
to
have
a
deeper
conversation
because
of
the
depth
of
the
information
that
sondley's
collection
provides
us
about.
H
A
C
B
I
agree
with
that.
I
think
us
more
than
some
of
the
other
groups
and
commissions,
and
you
know
we
are
tasked
with
history.
That
is
what
this
body
does
and
I
think
that
it
is
important
to
not.
B
What
do
I
want
to
say
we
as
a
community
are
moving
forward
and
that
isn't
to
say
we
should
cover
up
or
dismiss
or
ignore
history,
because
this
body
in
particular,
is
doing
a
lot
to
protect
history
in
a
lot
of
ways,
and
certainly
that's
around
the
buildings
and
landmarks,
but
with
those
landmarks
come
similar
historical
routes
that
that
are
there
and
we,
as
a
community,
can
grow
from
that
and
learn
from
that
and
tell
other
sides
of
the
story
that
were
omitted
from
way
back
as
moving
forward.
B
But,
but
I
I
think,
as
this
body
preserving
some
level
of
history
and
taking
it
for
what
it's
worth
and
layering
on
to
that.
What
we
know
now
that
we
didn't
know
a
hundred
years
ago,
200
years
ago,
is
important.
G
C
Yeah
and
I'm
not
really
sure
when
that
began,
but
they've
always
been
kind
enough
to
let
us
kind
of
ride
their
coattails
a
little
bit
because
they
always
have
their
annual
awards
event
award
event,
the
griffin
awards,
and
so
it's
you
know
a
great
way
to
kind
of
gather
a
lot
of
people
to
network
and
to
like
have
a
more
celebrational
feel
for
the
person
who's
getting
the
sami
award.
Otherwise,
it's
kind
of
like
come
to
one
of
our
meetings
and
it's
a
little
more
somber
than
going
to
a
big
fun
party.
C
C
The
preservation
society
did
help
us
a
ton
and
will
worked
on
a
cool
video
for
with
andrea
that
was
published
on
their
social
media
and
but-
and
so,
if
you
guys
have
any
thoughts
on
that,
you
know
for
the
future.
Obviously
we
are
certainly
open.
We
can
really
kind
of
do
whatever
we
want.
You
know
there
aren't
any
rules
around
this
only
award,
or
you
know
you
all,
can
you
know
brainstorm
and
offer
your
thoughts?
C
If
you
want
to
make
any
tweaks
to
how
the
award
is
given
or
whether
we
should
even
get
a
new
right
now,
it's
a
silver
bowl,
that's
engraved
and
it's
we
had
to
put
a
base
on
it.
So
we
could
add
more
signatures
because
we
ran
out
of
space.
So
even
if
we
want
to
talk
about
getting
a
new
actual
award,
I
know
that's
not
what
really
what
we're
here
to
accomplish
today,
but
I'm
just
throwing
all
these
things
out
there
just
to
say
yeah
the
door's
open
to
any
and
all
thought
so.
G
Yeah,
I
guess
the
distinction
I'm
trying
to
draw
is
that
this
is
a
unit
of
local
government
that
we're
talking
about
from
that
lens,
and
I
think
many
of
you
are
aware.
I'm
also
involved
with
preservation,
society
and
private
charities
have
their
own
things
that
they
can
want
to
do,
and
I
would
strongly
remind
everyone
that
we're
looking
at
this
as
a
unit
of
the
government
and
what
does
the
government
want
to
hold
and
uplift.
L
I'd
like
to
bring
back
an
idea,
I'm
sorry
just
to
bring
back
an
idea
that
I
think
was
mentioned
briefly,
that
it
may
be
better
to
when
selecting
a
new
name
move
away
from
any
historic
figures.
Just
because
you
know
we
are
located
in
the
south
and
any
old
figure
is
probably
going
to
have
certain
ideals.
L
So
yeah,
maybe
something
like
you
know
to
do
with
the
commission's
annual
award
or
you
know,
general
general
name.
D
And
sorry
for
interrupting
you
emily
it's
hard
to
tell
like
who's
gonna
talk
and
when
I
was
just
going
to
say,
you
know
something
that
I
see
as
a
bigger
problem
throughout
humanities
organizations
in
buncombe
county
is
that
we
don't
talk
to
each
other.
You
know
granted.
D
I
just
took
my
position
in
january
and
only
had
like
two
months
of
real
work,
but
like
I've,
I've
never
met
any
of
you,
folks
and
so
like
besides
alex
I've
met
alex
before,
but
it
seems
kind
of
odd
that
you're
out
there
and
you're
working
on
this
stuff-
and
there
are
folks
at
the
sweno
valley,
museum
and
there
are
folks
at
the
preservation
society
and
at
wench
western
north
carolina,
historical
association,
and
it's
like
there
is
some
communication,
but
it's
very
informal
and
it
feels
like
sometimes
in
special
collections,
we're
like
surprised
by
something
that's
going
on
that.
D
Maybe
y'all
are
doing
or
advanced
birthplace
or
any
number
of
these
places,
and
I
know
that
your
role
is
more
as
a
simi
quasi
judicial
body
and
dealing
more
with
you
know
actual
buildings.
D
But
I
think
it's
really
important
that
we
all
talk
to
one
another
and
know
what's
going
on,
and
so
I
just
want
to
offer
special
collections
as
another
government
body
to
partner
with
on
this
kind
of
stuff.
You
know,
don't
forget
that
we're
part
of
buncombe
county's
general
system,
so
you
know
we're
really
and
we're
trying
to
find
new
traditions
too.
So,
if
you
wanted
to,
you
know,
think
about
working
together
on
this
only
award
or
whatever
it
becomes.
C
I
think
we
all
wish
that
we
had
better
ways
to
network
on
a
variety
of
topics
and
maybe
something
we
could
kind
of
all
put
our
heads
together
when
we're
not
in
this
crazy
time
is
trying
to
have
some
kind
of
annual
forum
or
something
where
we
gather
professionals
that
work
in
all
these
different
organizations
in
our
in
buncombe
county,
so
that
we
can
all
kind
of
try
to
better
stay
in
the
loop
and
help
each
other
help
support
each
other
and
because
I'm
sure
that
there
are
a
million
different
ways.
C
F
And
same
within
the
historic
districts
too,
to
lump
them
in
on
that
too,
when
you
were
talking
about
launching
the
new
name
or
leaving
the
name,
whatever
we
all
decide,
which
seems
like
we're,
leaning,
maybe
if
it
were
at
a
county,
commission
or
a
city
council
meeting
as
well,
that
that
it
allows
both
of
those
governments
to
understand
the
importance
of
and
how
hrc
is
looking
at
a
larger
picture
as
well.
F
I
know
there's
funding
issues
that
we
that
maybe
that
can
help
as
to
help
with
y'all's
budget
alex
and
that's
it.
G
Yeah
one
other
thing
I've
put
out:
there
is
for
those
folks
who
have
gotten
this
award
in
the
past.
Some
perhaps
there's
some
sort
of
outreach
that
needs
to
take
place
with
them
and
see
you
know
if
they
have
any
input
about
how
they'd
like
to
have
it
stopped
going
forward.
I
don't
know
that
it's
going
to
be
a
huge
deal
to
any
of
them,
but
someone
may
have
an
opinion.
I
believe
mr
coman
was
given
the
award.
I
saw
on
the
list
so.
K
C
Well,
I
can
say
from
my
point
I
have
and,
and
those
on
the
subcommittee
that
are
here
can
say,
although
I
think
our
subcommittee
members
have
dwindled
since
pandemic
started,
and
people
started
resigning
that
we
did,
and
one
of
my
goals
is
to
work
more
closely
with
the
preservation
society.
C
C
So
you
know
that's
still
on
our
radar
when
we
can
start
reconvening
with
the
subcommittee
again,
we
haven't
been
given
the
okay
from
the
city
manager's
office,
to
have
any
subcommittee
meetings
and
that's
partly
because
of
open
meetings,
law
and
all
those
things
that
we
have
to
navigate.
It's
really
kind
of
impossible
for
us
to
do
more
meetings
than
what
we're
already
doing
as
far
as
public
meetings.
So
that's
why
we're
not
convening
just
as
an
aside
an
update
on
that,
but
certainly
that
is
you
know
something
that
we
are
striving
to
relationship.
C
H
C
C
It
in
like
march,
I
think,
and
trying
to
get
y'all's
brains
moving
on
potential
nominees
and
then
make
a
vote
by
the
very
latest
the
may
meeting,
so
that,
as
will
pointed
out,
could
go
to
the
be
awarded
at
the
griffin.
I
know
we
we
voted
in
april
because
we
have
to
get
the
cup
engraved,
so
we
have
to
build
timing
for
that.
So
that's
the
that's
the
month.
I
think
we
always
usually
ask
for
a
vote
for
that.
C
C
That
doesn't
mean
I
don't
think
we
should
include
it,
but
we
can
just
you
know,
go
away
today
and
think
about
this
and
then
come
back
at
a
later
meeting
and
share
more
thoughts
and
go
from
there.
If
that's
okay
with
you
and
I
can
confer
with
emily
on,
you
know
the
next
agenda
to
see
what
much
time
we
think
we'll
need
to
build
in
for
this
discussion.
C
B
What's
the
status
of
andrea's
award
is
that
all
a
done
deal
and
cups
engraved
and
she
accepted,
and
all
of
that
is,
I
guess
I
was
just
maybe
wondering
if
we
needed
to
do
that
sort
of
retroactively
to
2020
if
we
get
to
there
or
if
moving
forward
with
2021
is,
is
appropriate.
F
And
yeah
it's
in
her
house
now
some
I
keep
thinking
she's
going
to
use
it
for
her
dog,
but
she's
not
and
but-
and
I
was
thinking
it
would
be
nice
if
it
was
something
that
changed
that
that
they
kept.
But
I
it
was
really
nice.
She
sat
there
and
read
the
award
she
she
was
just
saying.
F
Well
anyway.
She
she
laughed
at
some
of
the
names
on
there,
but
but
it
was
some
she's
funny.
I
don't
want
to
be
quoted
anyway.
I
was
thinking
it
would
be
nice
if
it
was
something
that
each
person
kept
each
year
but
it.
But
then
I
was
contradicting
myself
by.
F
It
was
nice
for
her
just
reading
the
names
on
there
and
her
being
a
part
of
that
group,
I
thought
was
was
nice
to
see
when
when
she
did
get
the
award,
but
it
usually,
it
is
at
that
griffin
award.
So
it's
a
big,
a
bigger
to
do
than
some
clown
showing
up
in
her
yard
with
a
beer.
So
that's
how
it
went
this
year.
M
I
can't
think
of
any
specific
legal
reason.
You've
named
you've
named
the
the
award
in
the
past.
I
you
know
there
are
sometimes
we
have
resolutions
about
things
that
change
something.
M
I'm
not
sure
how
we
would
do
that
if
she's
been
issued
this
I'm
almost
I'm
thinking
about
the
cup
you
know.
Maybe
it
would
be
interesting
in
the
history
of
it
when
it
gets
renamed
to
retitle
it
like
that
line,
have
a
new
title
and
say
going
forward
and
somehow
there's
a
write-up
of
the
history
of
the
last
recipient
really
made
us
think
about
this
and,
as
a
result,
you
know
as
part
of
the
history
that,
as
as
emily,
was
saying
when
it.
G
C
Well,
I
wonder
if,
if
we
could,
I
mean
it's
something
to
consider
maybe
retiring
the
cup
and
creating
something
new
and
whenever
the
either,
when
either
or
both
whenever
the
award
is
given.
C
N
Well,
I
I
just
I
talked
to
andrea
afterwards,
and
I
know
she
was.
She
was
quite
upset
and
she
told
me
she
did
give
someone
a
talking
to.
I
don't
know
who
it
was
so
I
think
some
acknowledgement
of
the
reason
these
things
are
changing
is
because
of
her
would
would
be
felt.
You
know
deeply
felt
by
her.
N
I
think
the
collection
is
valuable
because
it's
it's
history,
but
I
think
we
can
also.
We
have
the
opportunity
to
change
the
name
and
be
more
inclusive
and
not
name
it
after
all
dead
people.
So
that's
just
the
way.
I
feel.
D
Yeah
I
had
like
a
25-30
minute
phone
conversation
with
andrea.
I
guess
right
after
you
left
her
house
well,
she
said
and
she
described
the
talking
to
and
all
of
it
yeah
it
was.
It
was
a
lot
of
fun,
but
you
know
she
said
I
just
want
you
to
know
that
a
black
woman's
got
stanley's
bowl
and
it
was
great
it.
It
made
me
very
happy,
so
I
bet
I
think,
yeah
acknowledging
andrea
somehow
in
this
process
was,
is
really.
C
C
A
new
you
know
entirely
new
award,
or
you
know
what
all
the
things
that
we've
talked
about
so
just
be,
considering
that
I
mean
and
for
those
who
have
never
seen
the
family
award,
it's
a
silver
cup.
That's
about
this
like
diameter
about
this
and
it's
sitting
on
a
wooden
base.
So
so
just
you
know
be
thinking
about
that
part
too,
like
the
tangible
and
a
huge.
Thank
you
to
katherine.
We're,
really
grateful
for
your
expertise
and
offering
to
help
us
with
this.
It's
your
your
wonderful
any
chance.
C
D
D
We
love
when
people
come
and
see
us,
and
I
put
my
email
address
in
the
chat,
but
if
folks
have
questions
for
me,
you
can
search
with
me
and
I'll.
D
Let
alex
email
you,
my
email
address
just
so
you'll
have
it
and
I
won't
sit
here
and
spell
out
my
name
or
anything
but
yeah
I'm
happy
to
answer
any
questions
you
might
have
as
you're
thinking
about
this
process
either
to
help
you
answer
questions
about
zomling
personally,
if
you're
trying
to
come
to
a
decision
on
that
or
if
you're
thinking
about
creative
new
names
for
the
award
that
might
may
or
may
not
be
other
people.
So
you
know
give
me
give
me
a
call,
send
me
an
email.