►
From YouTube: Affordable Housing Advisory Committee
Description
November 4, 2021
Meeting Minutes can be found on the City's Affordable Housing Advisory Committee web page at: https://www.ashevillenc.gov/department/city-clerk/boards-and-commissions/affordable-housing-advisory-committee/
A
B
And
staff
are
participating
virtually.
We
appreciate
your
patience
as
we
work
through
committee
meetings.
A
bit
differently.
We're
streaming
live
on
our
virtual
engagement
hub,
which
is
accessible
through
the
virtual
engagement
hub
link
on
the
front
page
of
the
city
website,
and
also
linked
on
our
committee
page.
We
also
have
an
option
for
the
public
to
listen
in
and
comment
live
by
phone.
Please
dial
855-925-2801.
B
A
F
A
B
B
I
think
I
just
wanted
to
clarify.
I
don't
have
it
in
front
of
me,
someone
could
pull
it
up.
There's
I
believe,
there's
some
talk
about
oak
hill
and
I
think
it
mentioned
it's
something
tied
in
with
the
reparations
that
that
one
might
be
on
hold.
I
just
want
to
clarify
that.
K
Yeah,
I
don't
believe
that
oak
hill
has
been
set
aside
for
reparations
nikki's
on
this
call
as
well
so
hi
everybody
paul
d'angelo
with
community
and
economic
development
and
nikki
reid.
Our
our
interim
ced
director
is
also
available.
Nikki
is
that
in
is
being
held
for
reparations
oak
hill,
or
is
that
an
available
site
for
potential,
affordable
housing
development.
L
So
the
moratorium
around
urban
renewal
properties
was
based
upon
those
parcels
that
came
to
the
city's
ownership
through
urban
renewal
programs
in
our
city's
history,
and
so
we
did
a
research
project
that
identified
those
properties
and
we
mapped
them
out,
that's
available
online,
and
so
that
was
how
we
designated
what
personals
are
under
that
urban
renewal
moratorium.
L
K
So
that's
that
is
not
correct,
so
land
banking
dollars
aren't
on
hold
for
any
particular
project
and
oak
hill.
We
continue
to
get
inquiries
about
that
redevelopment
of
that
land.
So
we
can
correct
that
in
a
minute.
Okay,.
B
B
No
problem
all
right
community
development
update,
so
these
are
the
updates
from
october
19th
anything
you
want
to
bring
specific
attention
to
you
wanted
to
see.
If
there's
questions
from
the
members
paul.
K
Just
a
couple
things
from
us:
I
appreciate
you
kind
of
shouting
out
to
the
team
members
behind
the
scenes
barry.
So
thanks
for
that,
just
in
that
roll
call
right
before
we
went
live
community
development
is
currently
a
team
of
ten.
So
thanks
for
that,
I
did
want
to
share
that.
We
actually
have
added
to
our
community
development
website.
I
think
for
anyone.
K
Who's
been
on
our
website,
we've
updated
all
of
our
tabs,
except
for
just
the
hud
programs,
which
I
think
is
the
last
one
to
go
we'll
get
to
that.
That's
a
bit
more
complicated
with
community
development,
block,
grant,
funding
and
home
funding,
so
city
of
bashville
community
development,
and
it
should
come
up.
The
affordable
housing
tab
in
particular,
is
updated
with
resources
for
the
community,
as
well
as
developer
investment
tools
for
developers
interested
in
partnering
with
the
city
of
asheville,
we've
shared
that
out.
K
It's
been
a
huge
help
to
I'll
go
on
camera
here,
a
huge
help
to
our
team
and
sharing
out
that
information.
Recently,
we
added
another
tab
about
the
a
lot
of
efforts
around
homelessness
and
we've
added
a
tab
just
as
a
resource
for
community
members
who
want
to
be
part
of
the
solution
on
homelessness.
K
A
very
difficult
topic,
as
you
all
can
imagine
a
difficult
issue,
and
so
it's
avenues
to
learn
more
to
be
a
part
of
the
solution,
but
also
an
avenue
for
citizens
who
may
have
concerns,
and
we
working
in
partnership
have
been
able
to
create
a
website
that
basically
can
address
most
situations.
K
And
hopefully
everyone
will
find
that
home
helpful.
It's
asheville.nc,
ashevillenc.gov,
backslash
and
homelessness,
and
we
have
some
just
general
resources
there
and
hopefully
that
will
be
another
informative
area
to
send
folks
to
to
be
a
part
of
the
solution.
Learn
more
address
concerns
so
all
in
our
commitment
and
just
being
more
organized
and
more
forthcoming
in
our
tools
to
everybody
so
really
happy
to
have
that
out.
K
We
will
probably
report
on
this
next
month,
but
just
a
brief
that,
over
the
last
since
covid,
I
think
we've
pushed
almost
16
million
dollars
out
the
door
over
500,
almost
500
draw
requests
and
over
100
contracts.
So
the
team
is
working
hard
and
always
more
to
do
so.
Bear
you-
and
I
talked
about
that,
like
what
those
figures
look
like
so
just
a
brief
there
and
then
I,
the
other
thing,
would
be
something
that
we're
adding
to
the
website
is
a
resource
which
is
our
affordable
housing
calculator.
K
So
I
think
most
of
this
group
is
affiliate
familiar
with
our
appendix
one,
which
is
about
rental
rental
prices
and
how
to
work
with
us
when
it
comes
to
affordable
rents.
When
you
partner
with
a
city,
we
also
have
appendix
two
so
aptly
named
for
home
prices
and
talks
a
little
bit
about
that.
K
So
we've
had
this
idea
about
an
affordable
housing
calculator
christina
harris,
who
is
our
community
development
coordinator,
has
kind
of
taken
this
project
on
and
and
has
some
just
wants
to
share
it
with
you
all
just
to
kind
of
give
you
a
quick
brief
of
what
that
will
look
like.
So
what
that
means
is
folks
in
the
community
can
input
a
couple
pieces
of
data
and
figure
out
if
it's
affordable
to
them
or
not
and
christina.
K
I
will
let
you
go
ahead
and
share
your
screen
if
you'd
like,
but
big
kudos
to
christina
for
grabbing
this
project
and
taking
it
forward,
and
we
just
wanted
to
share
it
with
you
all.
I
think
we
had
one
question
and
then
we
can
that's
mostly
for
my
updates
that
I
can
think
of
right
now
of
stuff.
That's
happening.
E
I
know
that
I'm
reading,
although
have
read
all
the
updates,
but
I
wondered
if
you
could
give
us
a
a
more
detailed
update
on
319
biltmore,
because
we're
running
a
little
bit
out
of
time
and
that
november
2023
is
going
to
be
just
a
couple
years
from
now.
It
takes
at
least
two
years
to
build
something
there.
So
can
you
give
me
more
of
a
timeline.
K
Sure
so
I
think
nikki
and
I
nikki
reed
our
department
director
pardon
me-
might
be
sharing
a
bond
update
to
hcd
in
november
or
december
as
we're
moving
along
with
the
bond
funds
and,
and
actually
that
is
looking
pretty
well.
But
regarding
319,
I
still
think
that
there's
some
conversations
happening
with
city
management
and
city
council
to
kind
of
move
that
project
off
home
plate
and
I
think
more
will
come
soon
on
that
project.
E
K
Basically,
october
of
2023,
yes
margie
and
now
we
are
up
here-
you
on
that
and
hopefully
more
to
report
soon
on
that
our
affordable
housing
bond
dollars
went
into
the
purchase
of
that
land
and
then
you
know,
obviously
in
partnership.
How
does
that
land
subsidy
work
for
the
affordable
housing,
we're
looking
for
at
319,
but
more
soon,
margie,
okay,.
B
K
Don't
I
don't
know
if
we
necessarily
have
to
go
back
to
hcd?
I
think
we're
just
looking
for
about
that.
I
I
think
it'll
be
talked
about
in
the
aspect
of
the
bond
dashboard
barry,
but
I
think
what
we're
we're
just
waiting
for
kind
of
a
final
thumbs
up
from
from
second
floor
city
management
city
council,
to
to
proceed.
K
A
J
Will
that
bond
dashboard
presentation
come
to
us
before
it
goes
to
before
it
goes
to
hcd.
K
I
don't
believe
so.
We
will
take
what
we
bring
in
november
or
december
and
bring
it
back
to
y'all
in
that
following
meeting.
J
Doesn't
it
make
more
sense
to
do
it
in
the
other
order?
As
I
mean
since
we're
the
advisory
committee,
wouldn't
it
make
more
sense
for
to
bring
it
here,
have
community
discussion
about
it
and
then
take
it
to
the
the
council
committee?
Otherwise,
it
just
feels
like
things,
get
things
get
backwards
in
the
process
and
we're
hearing
about
things
after
they've
already
been
presented
to
council.
J
K
I
can
try
to
get
committees
absolutely.
I
can
get
clarity
on
that
from
the
board
folks
about
just
these
roles.
Hcd
specifically
has
been
talking
about
a
bond
update
and
I
know,
barry
has
been
in
communications
about
you
know
what
exactly
we
should
be
bringing
to
a
hack
before
it
goes
to
hcd,
and
so
hopefully
we
can
get
more
clarity
on
that,
and
so
that
you
all
feel
comfortable
that
we're
sharing
information
in
a
way
of
not
just
policy
but
things
that
you
all
want
to
look
at.
K
J
Yeah
we've
just
been
I've
been
asking
for
that
dashboard
kind
of
report
on
the
bond
spending
in
this
committee
for
a
while
now
too,
and
I
it
we
really,
you
know
we
were
tracking
that
really
closely
pre-coveted
when
y'all
put
that
bond
dashboard
presentation
together
first
and
we're
really
involved
in
what
that
looked
like,
and
I
don't
know,
I
think
it
there's
still
room
for
this,
this
group
to
give
input
on
that
I'll,
keep.
B
Yeah,
I
don't
work
on
that.
Andy,
I'm
yeah!
Obviously,
as
you
all
know,
yeah
we're
working
on
trying
to
keep
our
our
committee's
foot
in
the
door
before
it
closes
for
things
like
the
you
know,
it's
been
specifically
about
you
know
the
housing,
trust
fund
and
the
luigi
thing
so
I'll
add
kind
of
that
bond
dashboard
to.
F
B
Okay,
so
yeah
I
mean,
I
know,
there's
lots
of
discussion
on
319,
so
maybe
maybe
we'll
see
something
that
yeah
and
I
think
with
with
some
of
that
stuff
andy
that
we've
been
trying
as
a
committee
to
get
some
clarification.
I
think
with
some
of
the
turnover
happening
at
the
city
with
you
know,
with
kathy
leaving
and
then
with
yeah.
B
I
think
that's
it's
it's
been
discussed
and
I've
asked
to
be
on
the
hcd
agenda
on
it
and
then
there's
been
talk
from
that
of
there
being
a
setting
up
a
kind
of
an
affordable
housing
summit.
That
council
would
counsel
and
us
would
be
involved
in.
B
B
Questions
on
updates
because
I
think
there's
a
few
of
those
specific
kind
of
updates.
We've
got
later
on
our
agenda
that
we
can
go
into
a
deeper
dive
on
the
specifically
the
fee:
rebates
down
payment,
assistance
and
penalties.
You
know
for
for
the
housing,
trust
fund
and
free
rebates.
We
want
to
leave
that
for
we'll
leave
that
late
for
the
later.
In
the
conversation
where
it's
on
the
agenda,
even
though
those
are
kind
of
related
to
the
community
development
updates,
andy.
J
K
Yes,
and
it
is
still
kind
of
with
those
discussions
between
city
management
and
the
potential
partners
at
cedar
hill
and
the
deep
review
site,
I
still
think
there's
some
discussions
happening
and
they
are
around
pardon
me
an
agreement
to
come
out
of
that
about
what
that
potential
rebuild,
could
look
like
in
a
framework
and
then,
of
course,
the
importance
of
getting
out
to
the
community
to
see
exactly
what
the
community
is
looking
like,
but
I
think
right
now
the
discussions
continue
between
the
potential
partners
in
city
management
on
the
guard
rails
and
the
framework
around
that
development.
K
It
has
been
going
on
for
a
few
months
and
hopefully
more
to
produce
on
that
soon
as
well.
J
With
the
the
county's
exploration
of
the
of
developing
the
their
ferry
road
site,
you
could
have
two
really
large,
publicly
owned
residential
development,
kind
of
residential
master
plan.
Community
developments
happening
at
more
or
less
the
same
time.
Based
on
what
the
time
the
planning
timeline
is
looking
like,
and
I
think
it's
just
important
to
be
aware
of
you
know
the
potential,
and
maybe
that
brings
some
synergy,
maybe
brings
one,
you
know
giant
developer
to
town
that
could
help
with
both
of
those
projects,
but
they
could
land.
J
You
know
more
or
less
at
the
same
time
or
their
planning
processes
could
be
and
aligning
funding,
and
all
of
that,
it's
just
something
to
keep
an
eye
on.
K
I
appreciate
that
andy
and
absolutely
you
know
lots
happening
and
potential
happenings
around
there
and
what
that
looks
like
and
so
again,
hopefully
we
can
provide
more
of
an
update
once
we
hear
more
about
how
those
discussions
are
going.
E
Paul
I
just
wanted
to
add
to
that
is
that
timing
is
really
important
in
here,
because
that
actual
housing
authority
will
probably
do
a
9
or
a
hud.
It
would
be
a
hud
deal
and
they
have
to
turn
all
that
stuff
in
in
january.
E
And
if
that's
going
to
happen
so
just
something
to
keep
in
mind
that
some
of
these
federal
programs
are
very
lengthy
and
take
a
lot
of
preparation.
K
Absolutely
margie,
I
appreciate
that
again
and
these
reminder
factors
are
all
good.
We
keep,
you
know
a
close
knit
with
those
timelines
with
nine
percent
and
four
percent
and
how
all
of
that
works
and
yeah.
I
I
don't
anticipate
anything
being
turned
in
in
january.
As
far
as
I
know
this
year
I
know,
there's
got
to
be,
I
would
imagine
community
discussions.
K
I
don't
want
to
speak
for
the
housing
authority
by
any
means,
but
yes,
those
timelines
matter,
and
in
these
conversations
and
and
that
has
been
discussed
about
what
makes
the
most
sense
in
those
partnerships.
F
B
K
So
we've
been
in
contact
with
the
pineview
folks,
almost
weekly,
about
how
they're,
trying
to
pivot
to
a
different
site
the
issue
that
we're
struggling
right
now,
probably
like
most
developers
here
is
you
know,
part
of
our
our
our
work
with
housing
trust
fund
is
to
to
fund
things
that
are
as
shovel
ready
as
possible.
K
Working
with
that
partner,
it
seems
like
they
won't
be
able
to
move
dirt.
You
know
on
this
pivot
for
papa
for
potentially
six
to
nine
months,
and
so
it's
becoming
a
a
a
conversation
on
how
to
best
do
that
if
we
pivot
to
another
site,
but
then
there's
still
no
movement
and
how
do
we?
How
do
we
shorten
that
timeline
as
that
award's
been
out
there
for
a
year?
Of
course,
it's
it's
coveted
times
rising
prices
across
the
board,
labor
shortage,
and
so
as
a
smaller
infill
developer.
K
They
might
be
struggling
a
bit
more
than
others
with
some
of
those
overreaching,
affordable
housing
issues,
but
we're
in
contact
with
them
to
try
to
see
if
there's
a
best
way
to
move
forward
on
this
pivoted
project,
or
should
they
rescind
the
award
for
now
and
and
let's
you
know,
come
back
to
the
drawing
board.
You
know
again
repeating
myself
and
puzzling.
K
B
And
then
so
restaurant
court
is,
you
know
it's
I
mean
I
think
I
shared
with
some
of
you,
the
properties
listed
for
sale
now.
Has
there
been
any
further
discussion
from
the
developer
if
they're
pursuing?
I
know
they
had
an
application
that
was
kind
of
pulled
and
is
it
kind
of
on
hold?
Has
there
been
any
discussion
of
past
month.
K
We
we
have
not
heard
back
from
the
developer
about
wanting
to
come
back
for
that
parcel
for
affordable
housing.
At
the
moment,
we've
not
heard
back.
Okay.
K
I
know
we
have
initial
funds
and
then
they
were
coming
back
for
additional
funds.
So
that's
correct.
B
K
Is
for
sale,
two
projects
that
we
could
potentially
see
housing
trust
fund
dollars
come
back
into
the
pot
and
moving
housing
trust
fund
dollars
has
been
been
challenging
for
sure.
Most
of
that
money
is
usually
for
local
infill
developers,
and
I
think
that
there's
been
a
struggle
there.
We'll
have
an
update
on
those
figures.
K
B
Good,
so
I
do
want
to
yeah
just
acknowledge
I
did
see
joe
has
joined
as
well
as
councilwoman
mosley,
so
I
just
want
to
welcome
them
as
well,
and
then
I
also
want
to
take
you
know
just
a
quick,
a
quick
moment
as
we
finish
these
updates
just
really
to
through
the
coveted
time
it's
definitely
been
challenging.
A
lot
of
us
haven't
seen
each
other
in
almost
two
years
physically.
So,
but
I
would
like
to
really
thank
the
community
development
team,
especially
paul.
B
You
know,
paul's
leadership
in
particular
of
the
team,
as
it's
grown
and
has
operated
more
efficiently
than
I've
seen
it
you
know
operate
in
my
you
know
with
four
different
directors.
So
I
just
want
to
you
know
thank
his
team.
I
know
I
think
you
said
you
have
nine
people,
it's
jonathan,
christina
nancy,
mary
brooke,
megan,
brian
emily,
alex
and
laura.
I
just
want
to
really
thank.
I
really
want
to
thank
them
and
then
thank
you
nikki,
for
you
know
all
that
you've
done
to
kind
of
steer
all
steer
all
this.
B
You
know
through
all
these
challenges.
We
we
really
really
appreciate
it.
You
know
it's.
It's
an
important
mission
for
the
city,
as
we
know
it's
going
along
the
lines
with
how
important
the
mission
is
of
affordable
housing.
I'd
really,
like
you
know,
one
of
the
thing
you
know
in
the
back.
B
The
conversations
I
have
you
know
I
understand
how
much
work
this
is
and
how
overworked
some
of
the
staff
is
that
I'd
really
like
to
for
us
as
a
committee
to
make
a
recommendation
that
the
city
hire
an
act,
an
affordable
housing
director
that
specifically,
is
targeted
to
just
overlook
the
affordable
housing
program.
That
way
it
really
helps
to
interface
with
the
other
parts,
the
other.
You
know
the
other
departments
that
rely
on
it,
such
as
you
know,
development
services.
B
B
There
was
talk
in
the
past
of
creating
kind
of
a
development
services
kind
of
position.
That
would
be
a
liaison
for
that,
and
I
think
that
you
know
just
with
their
staffing
hasn't
happened,
but
I
really
like
you
know.
You
know
knowing
how
the
community
development
team
has
grown
and
staff
has
grown.
I
would.
I
would
really
like
to
see
like
someone
a
designated
position
for
affordable
housing
director.
I
think
our
city
is
other
cities.
The
same
size
certainly
have
that,
and
I'd
really
like
to
make
a
recommendation.
B
You
know
that
that
hcd
and
the
city
consider
you
know,
hiring
an
affordable
housing
director
there's
any
you
know.
I
know
I'm
kind
of
bringing
this
into
strange
time,
but
you
know
I
I
wanted
to
just
kind
of
share
that
with
the
committee
and
see
if,
if
everyone's
in
favor
of
that,
and
if
so,
we
can
just
make
a
quick
motion
to
recommend
to
hcd
that
they
really
explore
the
idea
of
hiring.
You
know
creating
and
hiring
an
affordable
housing
director.
E
I
agree
with
you
gary.
I
think
it's
a
great
idea.
I
think
it's
somebody.
You
know
that
has
the
the
background
that
knows,
like
you
know,
has
a
good
background
in
what
affordable
housing
is
and
understands
all
the
complexities
of
it,
because
it
certainly
isn't
a
simple,
a
simple
topic.
K
L
I
thanks
brian-
I
mean
I
I'm
just
I'm
here
to.
I
really
want
to
listen.
I
think,
especially
thinking
through
I
mean
I
I
hear
I
hear
the
I
was
thinking
about,
like
all
the
work
that
we
do
now
and
the
work
that
paul
does.
So
I
really
want
to
listen
and
better
understand
how
the
committee
sees
that
I'm
just
not
quite
familiar
with
how,
with
the
interfaces
between
advisory
committees
and
like
personnel
decisions,
so
I'm
I'm
really
more
of
an
in
a
listening
mode,
because
I'm
not
quite
familiar
with
that.
L
I
mean
I
know
that
we
are
coming
up
coming
on
our
budget
process
and
so
that
budget
process
is
typical
when
we
talk
about
allocation
of
resources,
and
so
I
am
hearing
that,
certainly
we
need
to
understand
what
resources
that
we
need
human
resources
as
well
as
financial,
of
course,
in
serving
the
mission
of
affordable
housing.
So
I'm
kind
of
listening
with
that
in
mind,
as
well
as
just
trying
to
better
understand
that
relationship
between
personnel
and
committee.
L
But
again,
I
think
I
think
I
I
understand
where
this
is
coming
from,
and
I
and
I
appreciate
that
we
are
about
to
embark
upon
that
budget
process
and
how
the
advocacy
for
resources
for
the
department
and
for
the
mission
is
something
that
we
need
to
be
cognizant
of.
B
Yeah
we
can,
I
mean
it,
yeah
we're
just
it's
like
a
recommendation.
We
could
I
mean,
I
guess
we
we
could
just
we
could
our
options
we
can.
We
could
make
a
motion
or
we
could
just
you
know,
bring
this
up
and
say
we
will
put
this
on
our
agenda
for
next
time
to
kind
of
help
flesh
this
out.
But
you
know,
I
think
it's
as
we,
you
know,
hit
different
crossroads
levels
and,
as
you
know,
as
they
come
up
all
the
time,
I
think
it's
you
know
it's,
it's
definitely
something.
A
J
J
Like
the
you
know,
we
encourage
city
management
to
look
at
elevating
the
role
of
affordable
housing
at
the
staff
level
and
investing
adequately
in
the
capacity
of
the
the
teams
tasked
with
affordable
housing,
delivering
affordable
housing
in
you
know
in
asheville,
or
something
like
that,
so
that
we
have,
I,
I
don't
want
to
micromanage
the
the
city
management
staff,
it's
really
their
job
to
figure
out
what
the
right
way
is
to
you
know
to
to
create
their
leadership
structure.
But
I
agree
it.
It's
such
a
big
issue.
J
It
it
could
stand
to
be
elevated
so
that
there's
you
know,
there's
fewer
layers
of
of
decision
makers
to
move
through
to
to
advance,
affordable
housing
goals,
and
I
do
think
we
can.
We
could
make
a
bigger
investment
in
the
in
the
staff
capacity.
B
Sort
of
yeah
I
mean
that's
what
you
know.
That's
and
again
you
know.
Maybe
what
our
way
we
do
this
is
we
just
put
this.
You
know
we'll
introduce
I'm
just
introducing
this
now
because
there's
some
timeliness
to
it
and
maybe
what
we
do
is
we
put
it
on
our
next
agenda
that
we
can
then
clarify
yeah.
It's
like
we're,
not
saying
city
hire
this,
but
we,
as
an
advisory
committee,
you
know,
can
say,
hey
to
definitely
help
the
mission
of
affordable
housing.
B
We
could
definitely
use
someone
whose
role
is
targeted
specifically
for
that,
because
you
know
I
know
the
role
of
the
team.
You
know
all
of
the
department
gets
split
with
you
know
they
have
so
many
demands
and
so
much
pressure,
and
that
is
then
really
hard
to
kind
of
help.
Do
some
of
that
ombudsman
and
connecting
that
the
projects
connect
through
with
all
that's
promised.
You
know,
so
that's
what
I
you
know
that
was.
B
I
can
go
either
way,
but
you
know
I
just
I
just
definitely
want
to
introduce
this
conversation
and
again
there's
some
timeliness
to
it.
So
I'd
like
to
you
know,
definitely
introduce
the
conversation
whether
it's
you
know
something
we
we
discuss
further
now,
or
we
just
put
it
on
the
agenda
item
for
next
time
that
we
can.
We
can
clarify
paul
heathman.
D
Yeah
thanks,
I
I
think
you
know
this
is
an
introduction
of
an
idea
to
me.
So
I
don't
really
know
what
that
would
fully
mean
to
have
someone
in
that
role,
but
but
when
I
think
about
our
city's
challenges,
this
is
very
near
the
top
and
I
do
feel
like
it
doesn't
get
enough
attention
and
our
lack
of
focus
on
it
is
changing
with
without
our
ability
to
help
it.
D
It's
changing
our
city
and-
and
I
really
I
love
the
idea
that
that
this
may
this
may
put
a
seat
at
the
table
more
often
and
have
someone
really
focusing
on
it,
because
we're
going
to
run
out
of
time
on
this
issue
like
there
will
be
a
time
where
or
it
sort
of
feels
like
it's
already
slipping
away.
So
I
I
think
I
need
to
learn
more
about
what
that
role
would
be
to
really
sort
of
like
weigh
in
on
it.
D
But
but
it
feels
like
something
that
that
really
really
makes
sense
just
just
here
on
the
surface.
If
we
have
enough
time,
you
know
to
put
this
on
the
agenda
and
try
to
learn
exactly
what
that
role
would
be
in
the
next
meeting,
if
there's
enough
time
for
that,
for
us
to
kind
of
talk
about
that,
then
make
a
recommendation
and,
and
that
be
ahead
of
these
budget
decisions
that
are
upcoming,
then
that's
exactly
what
I
think
we
should
do.
B
Yep
makes
sense
yeah.
What
we'll
do
is
we
can
just
comp,
especially
if
we
compile
some
job
descriptions.
I
mean
just
to
invoke
like
what
other
affordable
housing
directors
and
similar
size
cities
do,
and
that
way
we
have
something
just
to
say.
Well,
this
is
kind
of
what
our
department
does.
You
know.
I
think
one
of
the
things
that
was
kind
of
you
know
in
in
some
in
our
one
of
our
task
force
meetings.
Our
build
task
force
came
up,
which
was
you
know.
One
of
the
things
I've
promised
is
a
you
know.
B
So
I
thought,
like
you,
know,
someone
who's
stays
involved
in
the
project
from
like
helping
to
find
the
funding
and
the
mission
and
the
land
to
then
you
know
make
sure
that
it's
the
promises
that
were
made
are
actually
kept
on
all
the
departments
but
yeah.
I
think
this
is
a
big
topic
and
and
that's
what
I
would
be
happy
to
kind
of
put
it
on
our
next
agenda
and
we
can
do
a
little
bit
of
background
research
of
to
what
other,
affordable
housing
directors.
B
Do
you
know
one
of
my
well,
you
know
similar
size
city,
one
of
my
college
friends.
His
wife
is
the
affordable
housing
director
for
santa
fe,
new
mexico,
and
so
I
followed
her
career.
You
know
just
you
know
that
kind
of
followed
her
career,
she's,
moved
up
and
and
just
kind
of
read
her
job
description
and
I'm
like
that's
what
we
need
and
santa
fe
is.
You
know
smaller,
I
think
than
us.
So
babs
did
you
have
your
hand
up.
I
I
did
I
was
just
going
to
reiterate
what
paul
was
saying,
which
is
that
I
would
love
to
learn
more
and
I
would
love
to
see
some
models
of
what
other
cities
are
doing
as
far
as
this
role
is
concerned,
and
it
would
be
really
great
if
there
was
actually
other
cities
in
in
north
carolina.
I
don't
know
if
that's
the
case
or
not,
but
I
definitely
would
like
to
see
what
this
looks
like
in
practice.
Okay,.
B
Let's
do
that
so
I'll
put,
you
know
we'll
put
this
as
an
agenda
item
to
explore
for
the
next
meeting,
but
you
know
I
really
wanted
to
kind
of
bring
just
bring
attention
to
that
and
really
you
know,
acknowledge
the
community
development
team
and
follow
nikki's
leadership
through
that.
You
know
over
the
years,
and
you
know
looking
of
how
we,
as
a
committee
can
support.
You
know
the
affordable
housing
mission
and
the
needs
of
the
department,
that's
supposed
to
carry
those
out
and
if
we
see
things
that
could
make
that
easier.
K
So
paul
here
and
I
appreciate
that
nicki
and
I
do
absolutely
and
just
a
couple
things
I
will
put
my
suggested
new
job
title
in
the
chat
for
you
all
to
choose
from
today.
So
just
let
me
know
how
that
resident
sounds
good,
but
we'll
figure
that
out
and
then
just
to
andy's
part
about
you
know,
information
and
all
that
stuff.
Just
to
share
this.
If
I
may,
for
60
seconds
is
you
know
behance
we
try
to
do
our
best
to
share
as
much
information
as
possible.
K
I
hope
you
all
have
seen
that
with
the
community
development
updates,
the
information
we
try
to
share
we've
got,
I
think,
400
people
on
our
cd
list
serve
right
now
that
we
share
information
and-
and
we
look
at
a
hack
and
hcd
is
obviously
two
different
committees,
but
we
feel
like
what
one
sees
both
c
and
and
all
of
that,
and
so
please
know
that
you
know
and
again
I
don't
know
if
I
need
to
say
this,
but
it
makes
me
feel
good
to
say
it
like
we're
doing
our
best
to
make
sure
you
know
we're
getting
information
out
who
sees
what,
when
you
know,
I
want
to
make
sure
that
we're
providing
what
you
all
are
looking
for,
but
you
know
it.
K
We
we
tried
to
look
for
that
synergy
and
at
one
point
I'd
recommend
it.
Could
we
do
a
hack
before
hcd
because
I
feel,
like
there'd,
be
a
better
synergy
there,
but
but
that
got
rejected,
which
is
all
good,
but
you
know
what
does
that
look
like
barry?
Could
you
attend
hcd,
and
so
you
can
bring
back
the
report
we're
good
for
any
of
it.
K
If
you
guys
want
to
see
x
first
and
why
second
all
good
we're
just
trying
to
figure
all
of
that
out,
but
for
what
it's
worth
all
the
information
goes
out
everyone's
available
to
look
at.
I
just
want
to
make
sure
you
all
realize
our
commitment
and
transparency
and
getting
information
out
and
we're
just
trying
to
balance
the
roles
of
the
committees
and
all
that
stuff,
but
it
it
all
the
infos
there
were
available
24
7
to
share
information.
K
I
just
want
you,
you
know
to
hear
from
that,
and
then
last
thing
is
is
I
I
would
like
to
give
christina
a
moment
if
we
can
about
that
affordable
housing
calculator
to
share
her
screen
to
get
for
five
minutes.
That
would
be
great
for
you
guys
to
see
what
we've
tried
to
create
for
the
community.
Thank
you
outside
of
that
homeless,
resource
thanks,
barry
and
christina.
If
you're
available,
to
share
your
screen.
M
Okay,
perfect,
so
I
really
wanted
to
give
you
guys
an
update
on
the
affordable
housing
calculator
that
we've
been
working
on
with
our
I.t
department,
in
particular
rick
barley,
who
has
been
a
great
partner
in
building
this.
M
M
You
know
general
household
size
of
four,
a
home
price
of
275
since
that's
kind
of
the
affordable
housing.
You
know
amount
that's
in
asheville,
north
carolina
and
then
the
down
payment
amount.
So
I
just
generated
some.
You
know
basic
amounts
off
the
top
of
my
head.
They
don't
really
go
to
any.
You
know
specific
individual
and,
if
you'll
notice
here
on
this
calculator
once
we
input
this
information
we
can
hit
down
here
at
the
bottom.
M
Results
have
been
updated
and
then,
on
the
right
hand,
side
it'll
kind
of
generate
all
of
that
information
that
we
have
put
in.
So
we
have
the
estimated
monthly
payment
amount
of
1
345,
which
someone
is
looking
to
pay
monthly,
that's
about
21
of
the
gross
monthly
income,
and
then
we
have
kind
of
again
that
general
information
of
the
household
of
four
people
with
a
gross
income
of
77
500,
is
in
the
area
median
income
so
100
to
120.
M
M
The
down
payment
is
55,
500,
closing
cost
is
3
700.,
a
loan
amount
is
223
200
and
then
you
know
cash
up
front.
Mortgage
rate
loan
period,
it
kind
of
goes
through.
You
know
some
of
the
different
options
we
have
here.
We
chose
the
loan
period
of
30
years,
thinking
that
that
is
a
good
kind
of
basis
to
start
for
homeowners.
M
If
we
click
over
to
the
details
portion
of
this
calculator,
it
kind
of
goes
into
greater
detail
which
we
are
going
to
update
this
to
actually
build
this
calculator.
You
know
what
we're
looking
here
is
not
what
it
looks
like
on
the
back
end,
so
it's
taking
a
little
bit
of
tweaking.
So,
unfortunately,
this
calculator
isn't
quite
ready
yet
for
the
public,
but
we
really
did
want
to.
M
So,
looking
at
this
detail,
portions,
it
just
gives
a
monthly
breakdown
of
some
of
the
taxes
and
insurance
costs
that
people
could
most
likely
expect,
but
yeah.
This
is
pretty
much
the
calculator
that
we've
been
working
on
and
we
just
wanted
to
present
this
to
you
all
and
get
your
get
your
updates
or
any
kind
of
questions
or
concerns
that
we
can
take
back
when
we
go
to
kind
of
tweak
this
calculator
a
little
bit
more.
So
if
you
have
any
questions
or
concerns,
let
me
know.
K
Christina
and
barry
just
quickly
christina.
Thank
you
so
much
christina
we've
worked
on
this
and
then
put
this
together,
christina
just
taking
it
to
close
to
finish
line.
Some
of
you
might
be
like
things
like
this
already
exist
out
there
in
the
google
world,
but
what
we
wanted
to
try
to
do
here
was
make
this
a
little
bit
more
asheville
centric.
You
know
to
really
tie
into
our
amis.
What
are
our
tax
rates
and
exactly
what
that
looks
like
that
estimated
payment
at
the
top.
K
There
goes
green
if
it's
a
nicely
affordable
thing,
it'll
go
red
if
it's
not
and
then
we
might
have
a
yellow
for
between
30
and
33
of
gross
income,
and
so,
as
you
move
up
that
figure,
so
we've
got
that
in
there
just
to
kind
of
play
around
and
there
it
goes
red
when
the
as
christina's
doing
that,
and
so
a
little
bit
more
asheville-centric
tied
to
our
amis.
Yes,
you
know
the
city.
K
We
are
struggling
and
and
admit
that
coming
up
with
a
solution
for
down
payment,
assistance
and
affordable
housing
and
how
we
help
with
home
ownership
has
been
a
struggle,
especially
with
home
prices,
that
look
like
they're
going
to
come
in
close
to
400
000
in
asheville
and
buncombe
county
this
year.
But
this
is,
you
know,
a
start
for
people
to
feel
comfortable
to
where
they
can
input
some
information.
K
One
quick
question
for
you
is:
should
we
we
are
estimating
an
average
interest
rate
of
3.5.
K
We
didn't
know
if
you
all
thought
we
should
allow
or
we
should
let
the
individual
and,
of
course
we
we
don't
take
names
here
or
anything
like
that,
so
we're
not
holding
on
to
that
data,
but
should
we
allow
them
to
choose
the
interest
rate
or
leave
it
at
3.5?
That
was
really
one
question
that
christina
and
I
struggled
on,
but
otherwise
we
hope
you
all
think
this
is
a
useful
tool.
We
do
and
happy
to
present
it
today,
christina
kudos,
kudos,
kudos,
she's,
great
and
a
great
team
member.
B
I
think
yeah
thank
you,
notes.
It's
it's
great
to
see
you
yeah.
I
was
gonna
call
on
paul
heathman.
Our
resident
finance
guru.
D
Yeah
that
sounded
like
my
wheelhouse,
so
it's
your
job.
D
D
The
federal
reserve
has
just
announced
tapering
yesterday,
which,
which
speaks
to
the
fact
that
interest
rates
may
may
be
increasing
over
the
year
even
just
this
morning,
while
I've
been
on
this
call,
britain
has
has
decided
not
to
do
that,
so
it's
actually
held
our
rates
low
just
this
morning
where
they
floated
up
yesterday
back
down
today
because
of
the
reaction.
D
What
I'm
kind
of
trying
to
frame
up
here
is
that
they're
very
volatile
and
they're
on
the
move
and
a
bit
unexpected.
So
I
think
I
I
like
the
idea
of
us
sort
of
choosing
the
interest
rate
just
because
how
would
anyone
know
what
it
is?
D
You
know,
if
you
simply
google
it
you
get
sort
of
well
bad
information,
truth
be
told,
so
I
think
if
we
choose
the
interest
rate,
we
just
would
need
to
keep
an
eye
on
it
and
be
able
and
willing
to
update
it
pretty
frequently
potentially
as
as
the
year
goes
on,
you
know,
just
I
would
be
careful
to
like
set
it
and
leave
it
or.
K
Something
so
what
I
would
ask
is
if
you'll
notice,
we
have
a
little
I
dot
next
to
each
thing,
which
kind
of
provides
some
information
so
which,
if
you
would
recommend
a
reasonable
range,
like
maybe
2.25,
to
5,
and
in
that
little
I
dot
that
someone
can
click
on.
We
can
explain
you
know,
hey
these
rate
ranges.
Can
this
rate
can
range
based
on
years
of
the
mortgage,
your
credit
score,
etc.
So
that
could
be.
Maybe
you
could
help
us
with
that
language
in
that
range,
paul,
heathman,.
F
D
Yeah
yeah
I'd
be
happy
to.
I
think
you
know
currently
just
to
speak.
To
that
you
know
a
range
might
be.
You
know
we
might
be
at
three
percent
up
to
three
and
a
half
or
three
six,
two
five.
It
is
dependent
pretty
heavily
on
several
factors,
but
then
again
it's
a
moving
target.
D
A
J
One
consideration
as
you're
thinking
about
that
range
and
what
number
you
pick
is
the
default.
I
think
the
you
might
want
to
lean
on
the
high
side
of
whatever
you
come
up
with
as
average
again
thinking
of
most
of
the
folks
who
are
looking
at
an
affordable
housing.
Calculator
are
likely
to
be,
you
know,
first-time
home
buyers
or
higher
risk
borrowers,
or
we
don't
see
a
lot
of
people
in
our
world,
given
the
cost
of
renting
in
asheville
who
have.
J
You
know
really
perfect
credit,
because
they've
used
credit
to
balance
out
their
household
expenses
when
they're
paying
more
than
you
know,
fifty
percent
of
their
income
to
rent
every
month.
So
it's
I
would
lean
a
little
bit
on
the
high
side
of
an
interest
rate
just
to
just
to
be
re.
Just
to
you
know,
put
some
reality
to
it
and
I'd
hate
for
somebody
to
look
at
this
and
then
you
know
think
they
could
make
something
work
and
be
surprised
later.
J
D
Agree,
I
think
that's
certainly
true
I
see
the
same
and
and
where
it
is
now
that
3.5
is,
I
think,
does
represent
that
well
and
yeah.
I
agree
we'll
continue
to
be
in
that
space.
E
I
just
wanted
to
say
that
I
think
this
is
a
great
tool
and
it
really
exacerbates
the
need
for
a
down
payment
assistant,
because
fifty
five
thousand
dollars
holy
toledo
I
mean
we've
got
parents
that
are
going
to
just
give
you
a
gift
here
that
you
know
just
the
likely
case.
That's
a
lot
of
money
and
even
though
you've
got
the
housing
price
down
at
the
very
bottom,
where
are
those
people
going
to
come
up
with
55
000?
B
B
C
I
do
like
that
it
includes
city
and
county
taxes.
I
think
that's
a
very
helpful,
relatively
I'll
say
it's
a
relatively
fixed
amount.
You
know
it's
not,
obviously
not
as
variable
as
mortgage
interest
rates.
So
I
think
that
is
that's
very
helpful
to
include
that
because
sometimes
it's
you
know,
I
mean
unless
you
really
know
how
to
look
for
it,
it's
kind
of
buried
so
good
job
on
that.
K
Can
hear
you
and
I
I
think,
but
we
I
think,
we're
good.
We
appreciate
it
and
this
will
be
on
the
classic.
Anyone
can
google
city
of
asheville,
affordable
housing,
our
tab
will
come
off,
we've
got
resources,
this
will
be
a
additional
resource
and,
of
course,
developer
investment
tools.
Please
share
far
and
wide.
K
Margie,
while
we're
waiting
on
barry,
do
you
want
to
move
us
along
or
just
wait
for
barry.
E
Yeah,
no,
why
don't
we
go
ahead
and
move
to
the
next
item
on
the
list
and
that's
kind
of
the
rules?
Well,
no,
I'm
sorry!
We're
looking
at
the
homeless
update.
E
We
have
under
the
275
000
there's
a
list
of
all
of
that
stuff.
E
E
Got
two
screens
going
at
the
same
time,
I'm
one
on
the
far
left.
So
just
talking
about
the
housing,
the
275
000,
the
list
of
all
the
single
family
homes.
Condos
barry
usually
goes
over
that
and
I
don't
have
those
to
share
but
they're
in
the
they're
in
the
in
the
packet.
So.
K
About
the
housing
yep
barry's,
just
margie's
moved
us
to
the
next
section,
just
to
talk
about
home
prices,
vouchers,
etc.
B
C
I
was
just
going
to
comment.
I
noticed
on
the
list
that
there's
622
reed
street.
I
love.
I
currently
live
right
up
the
street
from
that.
If
you
go
by
that
it's
it's
maybe
I
mean
I
think
it's
listed
at
129.,
it's
it's
a
it's
either
a
full
rehab
or
a
tear
down.
I
mean
the
the
land's
probably
worth
more
than
the
house.
B
B
Any
other
questions
or
comments
on
the
list
or
about
the
the
hack
of
vouchers.
I
really
appreciate
that
report.
Brandi,
it's
been,
it's
been,
you
know
the
new
one,
the
past
couple
months,
but
it's
been
really
insightful
watching
that.
B
All
right
and
the
questions
will
move
on.
Let's
see
our
just
brief
up
on
our
task
forces,
so
our
build
committee,
our
last
meeting
we
had
ricky
hurley
from
city
development
services
planning,
you
know,
planning
department
it
was
was-
was
great.
It's
been
really
nice
having
some
of
these
intimate
conversations
with
some
of
the
the
players
that
really
and
hearing
some
of
their
suggestions,
you
know
for
how
things
could
be
made
affordable
or
see
what
their
barriers
are
again.
You
are
or
our
our
committees.
You
know
you
know.
A
B
You
know
don't
have
lined
up
yet
it's
either
going
to
be
chad
or
chatter
nancy
nancy
watford,
but
I
don't
have
a
confirmation
yet
we'll
get
somewhere.
B
Andy
kind
of
y'all
want
to
share
on
your
connector.
So
I
know
you
guys
had
a
meeting
last
week
and
we
had
some
important
stuff.
We
were
talking
about.
J
Yeah,
we
are
continuing
to
move
forward
on
that.
The
the
the
project
that
we
laid
out
for
us
of
going
through
the
city's
housing
resource
guide
and
reaching
out
to
some
of
the
property
managers
and
making
sure
that
we
really
understand
what
their
capacity
is
vacancy
rates,
some
of
the
kind
of
maybe
more
hidden
qualifications
for
folks
to
be
able
to
access
those
rental
units.
J
So
we
we're
working
on
on
pulling
that
survey
together
and
we
spent
a
lot
of
time
talking
about
the
open
seat
that
we
have
on
the
committee
right
now
and
how
we
might
individually
do
some
outreach
to
organizations
that.
J
That
provide
housing
so
that
we
could
or
are
working
in
community
organizing
low-wage
households,
so
that
we
could
try
to
bring
some
folks
with
with
lived
experience
in
affordable
housing
or
with
the
struggle
of
painting,
affordable
housing
onto
this
committee,
so
that
that
voice
was
was
represented
in
this
open
seat.
B
B
I
think
it
was
december
sometime,
but
it's
posted
on
the
boards
and
commissions
area
and
the
city
clerk
website,
but
that
seat,
while
not
mandated
to
be
was
definitely
in
our
guidelines,
should
be
someone
who
is
a
you
know
a
resident
or
in
need
of
affordable
housing
or
a
renter,
and
so
we're
we're
trying
to
do
as
a
committee,
and
you
know
I
appreciate
the
help
from
the
connect
task
force
for
trying
to
make
sure
we.
B
We
do
good
outreach
from
that,
because
we,
you
know,
we
put
together
such
a
well-rounded
committee.
We
want
to
make
sure
that
all
the
voices
are
heard
and
that
we
have
good,
well-rounded
discussions.
So
thank
y'all.
B
B
Next
up,
we
have
for
the
planning
open
space
amendment
that
committee,
I
think,
has
had
its
final
meetings
and
scott
margie
and
chris
have
been
on
the
committee
and
that
there's
some
I'll.
Let
you
guys
kind
of
give
us
the
background
and
you're
looking
for
just
kind
of
our
committee
recommendation
of
this
letter.
That
way,
we
endorse
it.
C
Sure
so
I,
as
part
of
the
today's
agenda
packet,
I
assume
or
hope
everyone's
had
a
chance
to
just
briefly
glance
at
the
letter
that
I
prepared.
Currently
it's
state,
I'm
stating
it
is
coming
from
margie
and
I
and
the
reason
that
I
did
that
just
on
kind
of
short
turnaround
was
originally
the
recommendations
to
the
open
space
standards
in
the
udo
were
supposed
to
go
to
planning
and
zoning.
Yesterday
that
was
moved
to
december.
C
So
there's
now
the
opportunity
for
the
you
know:
full
committees,
you
know
affordable,
hou,
ahack,
riverfront
downtown.
There
are,
I
think,
eight
different
groups
on
the
open
space
task
force.
So
there's
now
the
opportunity
for
each
full
committee
to
just
you
know,
review
and
endorse
either
a
letter
that's
coming
from
the
group
and
or
the
standards
and
the
gist
of
that.
C
The
letter
that
I
prepared
was
that
you
know
margie
and
I
through
our
work
and
then
of
course,
chris
chris,
has
actually
been
a
representative
on
the
open
space
task
force
from
decag,
which
chris
will
have
to
type
in
to
remind
me
of
what
that
acronym
means.
C
But
right,
the
gist
of
the
letter
that
I
wrote
was
pointing
out
that,
through
the
process,
there's
been
some
what
I'll
characterize,
as
over
representation
from
the
urban
forestry
commission,
having
four
members
on
the
open
space
task
force
at
various
points,
and
of
course
that's
been
a
I'd,
say
a
constant
point
of
discussion
between
urban
forestry
commission
and
the
remainder
of
the
the
task
force
on
standards
and
a
lot
of
it's
really
just
been
a
consideration
of
the
spatial
demands
of
the
standards,
especially
on
smaller
urban
sites.
C
That's
what
margie
and
I
both
kept
coming
back
to,
and
I
think
I'll
chris
could
maybe
just
speak
briefly
to
that,
also
of
just
trying
to
balance
the
realities
of
that.
So
the
letter
essentially
says
that
we
support
the
standards
as
their
proposed
and
we're.
Also.
I
just
put
a
brief
phrasing
in
there
of
trying
to
balance.
C
You
know
the
needs
and
perceptions
of
current
residents
versus
future
and
new
residents.
I
think
that's
a
big
focus
of
our
committee
in
terms
of
access
to
housing
and
you
know
the
creation
of
more
housing
just
for
you
know
for
people
in
asheville.
So
that's
that's
the
gist
of
the
letter,
any
comments
or
questions,
and
if
margie
and
chris
want
to
briefly
chime
in
on
their
observations
on
the
work
of
the
committee
on
the
work
of
the
task
force.
E
Well,
I
just
I
think
that
we
represented
the
practical
side
of
everything
that
we
understand
the
need
for
open
space
and
we
want
to
have
a
certain
amount
of
open
space.
But
there
is
a
practical
side
for
the
density
that
we
need
to
to
have
affordable
housing
to
service
the
community
and
the
future
community
and
the
growth
that
is
happening.
E
We
have
to
be
very
practical
about
having
a
denser
denser
buildings,
and
sometimes
that
means
taking
up
more
space
to
be
able
to
get
there
and
to
be
able
to
make
it
affordable
for
the
developer
and
because
sometimes
the
smaller
you
get.
That
means
it
becomes
they
they
can't
make
it
work.
The
numbers
just
don't
work,
so
we
tried
to
represent
the
practical
side
of
it.
We
weren't
successful
in
some
cases,
but
we
did
our
best.
G
I'll
echo
that-
and
it
looks
like
vadilla's
popped
in
as
well,
so
I
I
actually
represented
the
development
services
advisory
group
on
that.
But,
interestingly
enough,
it
was
my
interest
in
affordable
housing
that
that
really
kind
of
pushed
me
into
pointing
this.
Some
of
these
open
space,
specifically
as
being
a
hindrance
towards
meeting
the
goals
of
some
of
the
other
incentives
for
affordable
housing
that
the
city
had
in
the
code,
and
so
while
it's
been,
it's
been
a
very
challenging
or
a
long
long
drawn
out
process.
G
I
do
feel
like
my
intention
of
getting
in
and
being
on
that
board
is
a
lot
of
those
goals
are
are
coming
to
fruition
in
terms
of
removing
some
of
the
the
blocks
that
were
that
were
creating
challenges
for
for
meeting
the
incentives
of
open
space.
The
other
thing
that
was
successful
in
there,
the
adaptive
reuse.
G
I
was
wanting
to
make
sure
that
that
the
new
codes
did
not
honestly
like
promote
situations
where
you
would
go,
take
a
green
field
and
and
build
a
new
project,
because
adaptive
reuse
of
a
building
was
becoming
becoming
challenging
to
meet
some
of
the
full
zoning
compliance.
I
think
there's
I
think
open
space
has
been
a
good
step
there.
I
think
there's
there's
actually
other
components
of
the
the
udo
that
would
benefit
that
the
the
homeward
bound
project
at
the
days
in
is
a
perfect
example
of
a
great
adaptive
reuse.
G
I
think
we
were
good
in
that
situation,
but
I
would
just
make
a
statement
that
there's
other
aspects
of
the
udo
that
can
kind
of
get
in
the
way
of
adaptive,
reuse,
which
I
think
is
a
a
great
tool
for
providing
affordable
housing.
J
Yeah
I
headed
up,
and
then
I
took
it
down,
I'm
still
trying
to
get
my
head
around
what
the
the
standards
actually
are
as
as
we
go
through
this
and
how
they
might
apply
to.
J
It
doesn't
look
to
me
that
there's
a
you
know:
there's
a
reduction
in
open
space
requirements
for
for
multi-family
if,
if
there's
an
affordable
component,
but
it
doesn't
look
like
the
a
single
family
subdivision
of
more
than
eight
units
or
eight
units
or
more
has
a
reduction
if
it's
an
affordable
development,
and
I'm
I'm
looking
at
this
and
thinking
about
some
of
the
some
of
the
small
infill
developments
that
we've
done,
that
are
that
are
really
you
know,
kind
of
fill
a
niche
of
extending
you
know
kind
of
connecting
super
modern
infrastructure.
J
Road
infrastructure
develop,
building
out
unused
right
of
ways
that
exist
and-
and
you
know,
some
of
those
projects
are
kind
of
right
up
right
at
this
size,
where
they're
just
over
just
over
an
acre,
but
maybe
due
to
topography,
can't
get
more
than
eight
units
in
there,
and
this
could
really
cost.
This
could
really
cost
a
unit
of
production
to
fit
some
of
this.
In
so
I
wondered
what
the
discussion
was
in
the
committee
around
single
family.
It
looks
like
most
of
what
was
adapted
here
was
around
multi-family.
N
A
N
N
First,
this
is
to
show
kind
of
where
we're
going
compared
to
other
cities.
The
blue
is
kind
of
the
lower
end
of
open
space.
The
red
is
a
higher
end,
and
you
see
today's
open
space
is
the
is
shown
over
here
on
the
right
and
then
the
far
right
is
the
proposed.
N
So
the
first
idea
that
I
want
to
share
is
that
our
minimum
is
right
around
kind
of
the
low
of
all
cities,
but
one
thing
that
we've
recognized
that
is
really
striking
is
that
the
upper
upper
range
of
required
open
space
is
actually
almost
a
minimum
standard
requirement
for
infill,
and
let
me
tell
you
how
that
works.
Looking
at
a
couple
of
existing
projects,
this
is
a
building
I
lived
in
in
just
just
near
trader
joe's
and
harris
teeter.
N
It
was
built
before
open
space
regulations,
but
if
we
had
regu
open
open
space
regulations
to
inform
its
building,
our
current
regulations
would
require
this
much
space,
which
is
more
than
75
percent
of
the
lot,
and
so
what
we're
proposing
is
a
significant
reduction,
but
it's
really
because
the
code
is
so
broken,
and
I
know
this
isn't
about
single
family
but
I'll
get
to
that.
But
this
sort
of
feeds
into
to
that
narrative,
another
example,
is
a
smaller
lot
where
you
might
see
a
10
unit
building.
N
This
is
a
sort
of
a
smaller
apartment
house
and
under
today's
regulations
you
would
have
to
provide
5000
square
feet
of
open
space,
which
would
be
the
front
yard,
the
entire
building
and
the
parking
area
which
basically
makes
it
not
viable,
and
what
we're
proposing
is
effectively.
The
front
yard
would
be
required
for
open
space.
So
it's
a
significant
reduction
because
of
a
significantly
broken
code
that
that's
been
in
place
for
many
many
years
and
has
has
put
negative
pressure
on
infill
for
for
all
these
years
for
commercial.
It's
a
similar
story.
N
I'll
just
answer
this
question
that
if
you
have
an
acre
or
more,
that
you
have
to
provide
50
of
their
partial
as
open
space
and
if
not
you
can
choose
to
to
provide
stormwater
controls
that
in
some
cases,
if
it's
a
greenfield
site,
you
have
to
do
it
anyway.
But
if
not,
you
have
to
voluntarily
choose
to
do
that
and
then
you
can
get
this
lower
reduction.
N
And
so
I'll
just
skip
to
the
end
here,
which
was,
I
think,
andy's
question
about
subdivisions
currently
required.
20
open
space
required
the
under
the
proposed
it's
10
to
15
and
we're
being
very
clear
that
the
right-of-way
is
not
included.
So
you
get
to
pull
out
your
street
and
all
the
right-of-way.
So
it's
a
you
know
it's
going
to
be
a
reduction
for
subdivisions
across
the
board.
N
G
N
You
know,
like
raleigh,
has
a
standard
where
they
have
a
conservation
subdivision
where
you
have
to
set
aside
40
percent
open
space,
but
the
minimum
track
size
is
10
acres,
so
you
know
I'm
not
sure
how
comparable
it
is
to
asheville
and
that
that
seemed
like
it
was
would
have
been
sort
of
hard
to
do
to
really
compare
apples
to
apples.
N
The
so
so
for
single
family,
it's
only
going
to
be
through
the
subdivisions
there.
There
are
no
restrictions
just
on
single
family
development.
For
for
our
project,
the
trigger
is
eight
units
or
eight
lots
below
that.
There's
no
open
space
required.
B
B
Okay
yeah,
this
is
really
helpful,
so
I
guess
you
know,
as
a
committee,
we're
being
asked
you
know.
So
you
know
we've
had
margie
and
scott
on
it
representing
our
committee.
The
next
step
is
going
the
pnz
right,
so
we're
they've
like
they
prepared
a
letter
and
they're
asking
you
know
and
and
we're
we
can
we're
being
asked
to.
You
know
kind
of
endorse
that
that
say
we
you
know
we
voted
on
this.
We
we
agree.
We
endorse
this
and
it
helps
with
the
you
know.
B
F
C
Scott,
I
I
will
just
quickly
add
while
vanilla
is
here
vidil,
thank
you
for
attending
this,
so
that
I
guess
the
technicality
of
representation
that
I
pointed
out
vadilla-
and
I
did
you-
know-
bring
that
up
during
the
process.
So
it's
not.
I
certainly
don't
want
to
make
it
a
you
know
any
kind
of
leveling
and
staff
of
like
you
know
it's.
You
know
you
know,
staff
did
or
did
not
do
this,
so
I
was
mainly
just
pointing
out
just
numbers-wise
and
frequency
of
representation-wise.
C
You
know
who
was
there
you
know
or
arguing
for
in
one
position
or
another,
so
just
want
to
make
that
clear
and
vanilla.
Thank
you
very
much
for
the
preparation
of
those
slides.
Was
there
one
more
you
had
in
there.
N
One
more
slide
in
the
presentation
I
had
a
lot
of
slides.
I
didn't
show
you,
okay,
I
I
think
they're
tangential
and,
and
not
you
know
key
to
this
I'll.
Just
you
know
to
piggyback
on
your
point
about
the
representation,
I
think
what
was
a
little
bit
confusing
is
at
least
one
member
who
sits
on
the
urban
forestry
commission
was
the
representative
for
knack
right.
You
know
but
wears
two
hats,
and
so
that
that
may
seem
unfair.
K
The
dilla
this
is
paul
here
is
this:
could
you
share
that
presentation
with
us?
Is
that
is
that
possible?
I
don't
know
if
we
linked
it
in
the
agenda
or
not,
but
we
can
certainly
share
it
out
to
the
team
if
you're,
okay,
with
that
vidilla.
N
B
B
C
B
F
M
H
F
I
A
B
Hi,
I
don't
think's
a
mess
up
in
a
discussion,
maybe
create
a
affordable
housing
summit.
Just
that
involves
us
with
with
from
the
council
members,
but
I
think
we're
you
know,
I'm
keeping
that
driving,
but
I
don't
I
don't
have
I
we're
not
like
specifically
on
in
discussion
the
next
agenda
for
hcd,
but
I'm
keeping
this
up
at
the
top
of
the
list,
because
I
I
feel-
and
we
as
a
committee
have
discussed
how
important
this
is
so
angelica.
So
you
have
your
hand
raised.
H
Yes,
I
just
wanted
to
make
you
all
aware
that
I
think
there
was
a
connection
issue
for
about
20
seconds
from
before
I
raised
my
hand,
so
that
may
not
have
been
broadcast
and
I'll.
Let
you
know
if
there's
any
ongoing
connection
issues.
B
Okay,
thank
you
all
right
does
anyone
else
want
before
I
move
off
that
you
know
our
the
the
item
of
ahax
seeing
hcds
anyone
else
want
to
say
anything
specific
about
it.
B
All
right
cool,
we'll
just
yeah,
just
let
you
know-
I'm
gonna,
say
my
my
foot's
holding
the
door
open.
Let's
see
under
a
new
business,
we
have
the
scale
skilled,
affordable
housing,
rebates
or
credits
for
shorter
term
commitments.
We
start
we
had
to
you,
know
kind
of
our
discussion.
We
went
around
asking
our
committee
members
about
it
last,
so
it
kind
of
opened
up
a
good
discussion.
B
I
don't
know
if
you
all
saw
it
actually
got
picked
up
by
the
newspaper.
It
was
a
pretty
good
article
kind
of
bringing
bringing
attention
to
it,
thought
that
was
good.
I
wanted
to
so
one
little
thing
on
the
next.
The
next
item
for
fee
rebates
that
kind
of
is
on
there.
I
just
wanted
to
share
one
piece
that
kind
of
ties
along
in
with
this:
our
discussion
on
the
the
small
project
rebates,
and
so
I
did.
B
We
had
discussed
about
the
fee
rebate
program
in
the
past
and
how
it's
about
its
use
and
non-use.
Now
because
the
program
has
changed,
the
program
has
changed,
so
it
pretty
much
stopped
it
it's
the
way
it
was
in
effect
discontinued,
which,
where
which
allowed
the
rebate
of
the
msd
fees
you
know,
portion
of
the
msdf
portion
of
the
water
fees
portion
of
the
city,
development
fees.
That
program
from
in
most
effects
stopped
in
2016,
and
it's
there's
a
current
rebate
program,
but
it's
tied
into
you
know:
guaranteed
affordability.
B
So
one
of
the
things
that
had
been
asked
at
the
committee
when
we
discussed
this
and
that
so
that
fee
rebate
is
if
you
want
to
look
at
the
list,
it's
on
the
it
is
in
the
community
development
updates
in
the
link
in
the
there's,
a
link
to
it
in
the
how
to
find
it.
But
it's
in
it's
sorry
for
the
updates
in
front
of
me,
but
it
was
it's
in
the
section
of
the
agenda
that.
B
B
So
one
of
the
questions
we
had
about
that
was
kind
of
what
what's
happened
with
those.
So
I
had
my
my
staff
actually
prepared
a
study
I
gave
I
had
them
go
through
the
list
of
all
of
the
the
houses
that
were
went
through
at
least
for
the
for
sale
per.
You
know
got
received
for
sale
rebates,
so
the
there
was
a
116
total
fee
rebate
for
sale,
homes
that
happened
between
2011
and
2016.,
and
a
lot
of
those
were
that
was
when
kind
of
some
private
develop.
B
Private
builders
were
using
it
more
because
it
didn't
have
the
you
know
the
20-year
guarantee
a
lot
of
the
a
lot
of
the
projects
were
obviously
habitat
for
humanity
and
some
mountain
housing,
not
as
many,
but
so
that
total
the
total
amount
was
116..
B
You
know
the
original
owners
of
that
of
those
35
that
sold
what
we
did
is
we
looked
at
the
year
that
each
of
them
sold
and
we
compared
it
to
the
current
year,
affordable
standards
for
the
year
in
which
the
property
sold,
and
then
we
looked
at
what
was
still
considered
affordable
at
the
time
that
the
property
turned
and
then
what
was
not
considered
affordable.
B
So
those
116,
like
I
said,
35
sold
18
of
those
35,
were
sold
at
affordable
standards
for
the
sale
year
and
then
17
sold
at
what's
considered
non-affordable
standards
for
the
sale
year.
So
that
means
of
the
116.
B
You
know
total
fee
rebates
that
were
granted
17
of
those
are
which
is
14,
are
what
what
are
not
didn't.
Turn
a
current
affordable
standard.
So
it's
just
some
data
I
just
wanted
to
share.
I
thought
it
was
valuable
just
to
kind
of
see
that
it's
a
a
program
that
was
a
easy
easier
to
use,
fury
ebay,
that
didn't
involve
any
kind
of
guarantee
that
the
project
was
going
to
have
to
remain
affordable,
but
of
those
80
you
know,
85
percent
of
them
remained
affordable.
B
So
I
thought
this
was
just
some
valuable
data
to
share,
and
I
can
you
know,
share
some
of
the
specific
research
on
that,
because
what
we
did
is
we
compared
that
we,
we
tracked
all
the
sales
prices
in
the
years
and
we
looked
at
how
much
above
they
were,
of
what
the
current
affordable
housing
standards
were
at
that
time.
G
Yeah
just
a
point
to
clarify.
Thank
you.
Barry,
that's
processing
that,
but
I
really
like
the
I
like
this,
this
information,
one
point
of
clarification,
so
you
said
that
85
percent
of
them
had
remained
affordable
and
then
there
were
like
maybe
35
of
the
units
were
were
resold,
but
it
sounded
like
half
of
the
resale
still
remained
affordable,
yep.
B
Yep
what
we
did
for
those
standards
is
like
so
example.
You
know
I'll
just
look
at
one
of
them.
I've
got
so
if
a
property
that
in
november
you
know
november
2011,
the
original
sales
price
was
146,
000
of
a
property
it
sold
in
october,
16
2016
for
180
000,
and
at
that
time
the
current
standards
by
the
you
know
by
the
hud
guidelines
for
sale.
Prices
was
two
hundred
and
nine
thousand,
so
it's
sold
below
what
those
current
affordable
standards
are.
So
we
did
this
on
any
of
the.
B
So
we
looked
at
like
it's
all
116,
and
then
we
looked
at
anything
that
the
deeds
had
transferred
on
and
we
looked
at
the
sales
price
of
the
deed
transfer
and
then
compared
that
to
the
current
hud
standard
for
that
year
for
maximum
price.
So
it's
kind
of
that
was
the
at
least
the
method
we
followed.
B
So
so,
overall,
like
what
kind
of
wrapped
up
I
said,
yeah
was
that
of
the
116
that
had
been
used
in
the
program
17
or
what
now
you
know
when
the
property
turned
was
outside
of
current
standards,
and
you
know
that
ranged
from
some
was
someone's
like.
I
was
briefly
looking
somewhere
a
thousand
dollars
over
one
was
as
much
as
sixty
thousand
dollars
over.
It
was
also
it's
interesting
to
see.
You
know
you
can
see.
It
was
definitely
driven
by
neighborhoods,
because
anything
that
was
like
in
core
west
asheville.
B
That
was
really
where
the
rapid
most
rapid,
acceleration
and
pricing
was.
It
was
pretty
much
very
predictable
if
I
saw
a
west
asheville
address
that
was
generally
one
of
the
ones.
That
would
turn
so
you
know
so
you
know
this
as
you.
I
think
some
of
this
data
might
you
know,
is
valuable
to
look
at
a
program
that
doesn't
have
mandatory
compliance,
just
kind
of
what
the
net
effect
are
and
then
to
look
at.
Maybe
you
know
how
you
know.
Maybe
there's
certain
it's.
Maybe
the
program
focuses
on.
B
Maybe
we
look
at
focusing
on
the
boundaries
where
we
know
there's
not
going
to
be
the
rapid
acceleration.
I
don't
I
don't
know,
but
I'll
share
some
of
this
in
great
detail.
I
just
wanted
to
kind
of
share
at
least
what
our
staff
put
together,
because
I
thought
it
was.
It
was
something
our
committee
members
had
asked
to
look
at
that.
So
we
kind
of
did
the
research
and
you
know,
got
got
some
broadview
data
on
it.
Kudos.
B
Yeah
I'll
give
a,
but
I
think
you
met
her
kristen
as
my
my
my
assistant
and
as
I
I
said,
kristen
on
this
product
project
and
she
was
very
happy
to
assist
christie.
Another
question.
G
I
do
so
the
just
to
reiterate
this
was
done
before
there
was
a
like
a
deed
restriction
for
20
years
aspect.
We
know
how
much
the
program
has,
how
many
less
I
guess
applications
have
occurred
since
the
deed
restriction
requirement
was
put
in
place
and
so
that
we
could
is
there
a
correlation
we
could
find
that
says.
You
know
once
that
deed
restriction
got
in
place.
You
know
we
lost
the
incentive
for
people
to
provide
affordable
housing.
B
I'll
bring
paul
d'angelo
in
for
this
I'd
asked
paul
to
paul,
and
you
know
to
kind
of
help
find
that
number.
I
don't
we
don't
have
usage.
We
don't
have
any
usage
statistics
for
the
program.
Past
2016.,
it
kind
of
went
over.
K
But
we
don't
call
them
to
remind
them
like
hey,
don't
forget,
come
back
for
your
free
rebates,
we
just
kind
of
let
them
know
and
then,
if
they
put
all
that
stuff
in
so
I
don't
know
if
we
need
to
be
better
about
that.
So
all
that
to
say
to
your
point,
barry
about
trying
to
create
a
luigi
for
smaller
infill
developers.
K
K
I
think
our
task
as
a
division
department
is
to
work
on
a
draft
of
a
smaller
luigi
are
luigi
for
smaller
infill
developers,
perhaps
say
under
my
brain
goes
to
10,
12
or
20
units,
and
perhaps
we
add
the
fee
rebates
into
that
policy
as
well,
which
have
less
of
a
of
a
kick
or
a
sting
or
whatever
you
want
to
say
there.
So
that's
where
I
don't
think
I
don't
know
if
I'm
answering
you
chris,
but
that's
kind
of
where
my
brain's
going.
B
Has
the
I
guess
I
would
probably
put
this
and
I'll
say
well
this.
The
study
we
specifically
did
was
on
for
sale
product
which,
like
currently
luigi,
doesn't
work.
For
you
know
the
ouija
really
is
just
for
rentals
is,
but
I
would
probably
ask
andy:
if
so
andy
was
you
know.
Obviously,
habitat
was
one
of
the
biggest
users
of
this
program
since
2016
would
have
y'all.
What
is
your
experience
with
the
furious
program?
What
do
you,
what
are
you
using
for
your
for
your
houses.
J
We
haven't
done
a
lot
of
units
in
the
in
the
city
of
asheville,
since
the
new
fee
rebate
policy
was
established
whenever
that
was
2019
or
so
so
I
really
can't.
I
really
can't
speak
to
what
our
experience
has
been
working
under
that
we,
you
know
we
did
look
at
when
the
when
the
new
fee
rebate
policy
came
out,
we
did
look
at
it
and
and
despite
its
complications,
you
know
we
can.
J
We
can
probably
find
a
way
to
make
it
work,
because
most
of
our
developments
already
have
some
sort
of
long-term
affordability
restriction
on
them.
So,
but
we
haven't,
we
haven't
been
able
to
do
anything.
You
know
just
to
you
know,
go
back
to
the
conversations
that
we
had
in.
You
know
2016
17
18
around
this.
You
know
to
paul's
point
for
developers
to
you
know.
Maybe
they
don't
even
remember
that
they
are
eligible
for
a
fee
rebate
by
the
time
they
get
to.
You
know
when
they
can
claim
it.
J
If
folks
are,
if
folks
are
committing
to
affordable
meeting
an
affordable
standard
at
the
front
end
because
of
financing
that
they're
taking
just
make
it
a
fee
waiver.
It's
a
much
better
incentive
if,
if
it's
a
fee
waiver
rather
than
you
pay
it,
and
then
you
know
get
it
back
later
and
a
simpler
calculation
just
linking
it
to
the
you
know,
I
mean
for
for
sale
stuff
linking
it
to
the
the
hud
home
sales
price
limit,
so
that
you
know
whether
that
project
sold
at
an
affordable
rate
or
didn't
sell
an
affordable
rate.
J
I
I'm
for
I'm
for
easy
in
getting
these
kinds
of
things
done.
We
we
made
a
really
complex
policy
that
she
you
know
that
achieves
on
paper,
important
policy
goal
of
securing
long-term
affordability,
but
then
it
didn't
get
used
so
that
I
mean
I
just
think,
we've
got
to
watch.
K
So
I
appreciate
that
and
yeah
I
don't
know
necessarily
since
we
we
haven't
seen
some
of
our
re.
You
know
most
of
our
luigi
deals
and
those
feed
rebates
like
none
of
them.
Only
one
of
them
is
closed,
so
we're
not
necessarily
sure
they
just
they
won't
be
able
to
come
back
until
they
you
know
it's
paid
and
then
it's
rebated
and
you
know
they've
got
the
co.
K
I
hear
that
point
about
fee
waivers,
but
I
think
there's
a
statute
there
on
something
with
affordability
that
we
can't
just
waiver
them.
Although
there's
been
talk
about
wavering
them
around
homelessness,
so
I
I
will
look
into
that,
but
you
know
for
what
it's
worth
we
we
did
put
that
policy
together,
that
we
feel
you
know
simple,
usable
and
equated
to
a
dollar
amount.
That's
easy
to
to
to
follow.
We
think,
but
I
will
we
will
definitely
talk
about
that
and
look
at
that.
K
We,
I
just
feel
like
people
haven't,
come
back
yet
for
their
fee
rebates
and
that's
what
we're
waiting
on
but
we'll
see
and
then
tying
it
to
home,
hud
home
prices
for
that
affordability.
I'm
not
sure
about
that,
because
we
want
to
also
make
sure
you
know
for
profits
and
others
who
may
not
be
tagging
it
with
home
funding
all
can
take
advantage
of
it
and
it
does
have
a
home
ownership
component
as
well.
So
again,
it's
probably
worth
a
review.
K
We
did
for
what
it's
worth
take
it
out
of
having
to
take
it
to
city
council
that
got
approved,
so
it
can
be
proved
on
a
staff
level.
So
we
simplified
that.
But
maybe
it
is
time
and
due
to
your
overall
point,
is
let's
take
another
look
at
it
at
some
point
and
kind
of
read
through
it
to
see
if
it
is
as
simple
as
we
think
it
is,
it
sounds
like
we
might
be
wrong
or
the
jury's
still
out.
J
K
Right,
but
I
want
to
make
sure
that
if
I
I
have
not
heard
a
developer,
say
it's
difficult,
but
we
our
ears,
need
to
be
open
to
that
ie.
The
developer
forum,
that's
happening
on
november
19th,
which
I
hope
everyone's
coming
to
and
asking
some
questions
about.
Do
our
policies
themselves
ended
your
point,
fight
against
affordability,
which
I
feel
like
several
of
you
all
talked
about,
but
does
that
need
to
be
talked
about
at
the
developer
forum?
K
But
no,
I
think
overall,
I
think
it
sounds
like
you
know
not
only
that
small
or
luigi,
but
let's
take
another
look
at
few
rebates.
E
I
was
just
going
to
say
that,
as
we
begin
as
we
look
at
that
for
the
smaller
developer
and
the
luigi
and
the
fee
rebates
also
look
at
the
law,
the
the
length
of
the
affordability
term-
and
I
know
that's
something
that
we
have
talked
about,
but
I'm
talking
about
for
the
smaller
the
smaller
entity.
E
K
Absolutely
and
not
to
add,
you
know
any
the
the
constant
balancing
act
here,
but
you
know
we're
getting
word
from
people
that
that
are
wondering
why
we're
not
everything
that
we
do
isn't
permanently
affordable
so
on
the
whole
flip
side
of
that,
and
you
know
yes,
I'm
very
aware:
somebody
wants
an
affordable
unit
to
be
permanently
we're
looking
at
a
half
a
million
dollar
subsidy
per
unit,
and
so
that's
a
you
know.
But
how
do
we
balance
this?
E
B
I
think
it's
absolutely
the
analogy.
You
know
I've,
you
know
said
a
few
times:
it's
like
it.
I
I
think,
having
a
more
having
first,
especially
smaller
developers,
just
having
options
for
a
way
to
try
a
program
out.
It's
like
you
know.
I
said
you
need
to
date
before
you
get
married
and
maybe
there's
a
way
we
can
buy
them,
buy
them
dinner
without
having
to
buy
them
a
ring.
But
you
know
that's
and
that's
kind
of
what
I
looked
at,
because
the
fury
bay
program
didn't
cost.
B
G
Yeah,
I
was
just
going
to
add
thanks
paul
great
that
city
staff
is
working
on
smaller
scale.
Land
use
incentive
grant
incentives,
but
you
use
the
term
that
the
rebate
was
icing
on
the
cake
and
I
feel
like
that's.
That's
a
really
good
analogy.
You
know.
G
I
also
want
to
make
sure
that
this
this
group,
as
we're
working
we're
meeting
with
builders
and
so
forth,
with
the
build
group
trying
to
find
incentives
towards
that
really
small
scale,
where
it's
somebody
building
one
adu
in
their
backyard
or
somebody
building
just
a
single
family
home
that
then
incentivize
them
to
sell
that
at
a
at
a
at
an
affordable
rate.
So
I
I
wanna,
I
know,
barry
you
probably
got
maybe
more
experience
in
that
world,
but
I
feel
like
that's
that.
That's
the
missing!
G
That's
a
key
component
of
of
what
we're
hearing
in
the
build
group
that
trying
to
find
ways
to
incentive
that
incentivize
that
type
of
of
infill
super
small
scale.
B
Yeah
yeah
there's
so
many
people
now
who
want
to
build
yeah
who
are
who
who
would
like
a
a
house
with
an
adu
and
it's
not
always
or
or
a
duplex
and
and
the
purpose
is
not
always
just
short-term
rental,
despite
what
the
media
might
make
it
sound
like
you
know,
there's
a
lot
of
people
who
really
do
want
to
provide,
and
if
there's
some
kind
of
small
incentives
there
might
you
know
there
might
be
more
of
that,
and
that's
kind
of
you
know
that's
been.
B
The
purpose
of
kind
of
this
discussion
is
that
we,
what
we
kind
of
looked
at
is
some
of
these
policies.
These
poli,
especially
some
of
the
policy
shifts
and
the
current
policies,
are
really
they're.
I
mean
some
of
them
are
great
and-
and
I
don't
disagree
with
some
of
the
standards
but
they're
focused
on
larger,
larger
scale,
project
products.
So
I
think
it's
in
some
ways.
B
We
really
need
to
look
at
yeah
from
the
tiniest
you
know
from
how
does
someone
put
an
adu
in
their
backyard
and
get
some
credit
on
the
you
know
credit
for
that
to
how
do
you
you
know?
How
can
we
incentivize
four
plexes,
or
you
know
that,
what
zoning,
basically,
what
the
purpose
zoning
has
adjusted?
Zoning
changes
have
happened
to
make
it
easier
to
do
that.
So
we
need
to
also
kind
of
match
what
zoning
is
like.
The
the
things
that
have
happened
with
zoning
changes
and
state
legislature
changes.
B
We
need
to
kind
of
look
at
match
with
affordable
rebate
programs,
so
we
can
incentivize
keeping
them,
as
you
know,
for
affordable
rather
than
you
know
short
term,
but.
K
Barry
just
one
quick
thing
if
I
may-
and
I
certainly
don't
want
to
reverse
my
role
here
and
give
you
all
homework.
However,
there
is
a
developer
forum
next
week
and
perhaps
barry
you
as
the
chair.
K
You've
talked
about
those
things
andy
and
how
do
we
fund
infrastructure
and
and
several
of
you
who
brought
things
to
our,
I
I
I
would
recommend,
if
I
may,
a
letter
to
in
advance
of
developer
forum
with
ahax
sure
a
couple
kudos
about
yeah
these
some
things
are
great
and
yup
we're
looking
at
this,
but
we
still
see
x,
y
and
z,
challenges
and
maybe
those
could
be
sent
to
you
very
or
we
could
assist
in
putting
those
to
format.
K
I
just
think
that
that
kind
of
transparent
and
open
conversation
is
only
something
that
the
city
can
learn
from,
and
I
think
it
would
be
really
helpful
great.
I
appreciate.
B
B
F
B
F
B
K
No
and
great
question
barry,
so
we
are
waiting
on
some
do
the
due
diligence
should
be
back
any
day
now
on
this
parcel.
You
know
the
classic.
You
know
environmental,
etc,
that
we've
looked
at
from
the
city
side
and
then
the
seller
we've
asked
for
some
information
from
and
hopefully
again
all
of
that
should
be
happening.
I
would
assume
by
next
week.
We
should
get
that
information
back
and
then
I
think
there
will
be
a
meeting
with
city
management
to
take
a
look
at
between.
K
K
Providing
then,
is
there
a
possibility
of
purchasing
that
site
with
city
funds
such
as
land,
banking
and
down
payment
assistance
dollars
to
purchase
and
make
the
site
pad
ready
to
possibly
then
have
again
give
or
take
40
lots
is
what
we
are
looking
at
and
what
we've
been
told
from
the
seller
that
40
lots
could
then
be
created
and
then
by
the
nature
of
using
funds
from
the
city,
particularly
down
payment
assistance.
K
That
way,
we
have
a
lot
that
could
be
sold
for
a
dollar
and
then
immediately
remove
those
costs.
Obviously,
from
the
sales
price.
We
have
recognized
and
it's
a
conversation,
a
seller
who
presented
to
city
management
and
conversations
about
how
you
know
we
have
to
be
cautious
in
those
discussions
just
because
it
could
inflate
the
price
etc.
K
K
Assistance
use,
albeit
not
in
the
traditional
sense,
and
have
that
discussion
with
a
hack
as
the
policy
is,
is
back
in
to
ready
to
go
back
out
to
rfp
per
se,
but
there's
been
a
pause
because
we
think
this
is
an
avenue
worth
exploring
that
could
you
know
maybe
take
fifty
to
sixty
thousand
dollars
off
of
the
home
price
right
off
the
bat
and
then
they
could
go
out
hopefully
and
get
additional
down
payment
assistance
from
traditional
methods
to
buy
down
the
price.
K
So
not
much
has
changed
in
the
aspect,
barry
of
just
the
waiting
game
of
the
due
diligence
and,
of
course
you
know,
we
have
to
rfp
all
that
stuff.
So
there's
a
process
to
get
to
pick
somebody
to
do
all
that
work,
etc.
But
we
think
it
is
an
avenue
worth
exploring
because,
as
you
all
see
last
thought
of
a
if
a
home
price
right
now
is
375
400
000.
On
average,
we
got
to
buy
it
down
by
125
000
coming
up
with
down
payment.
Assistance
in
that
amount
is
how
you
know.
K
Do
we
do
that?
But
if
we're
taking
the
land
cost
out
of
the
equation
and
then
they
can
go
for
traditional
down
payment
assistance
of
40,
000,
000
or
something
through
another
avenue.
Then
then
can
we
do
something
here,
so
we
think
it's
worth
exploring,
but
it
will
come
back
to
a
hack
because
that's
policy
driven
and
that's
asking
you
all
to
to
get
your
feedback.
B
I,
I
think
it's
an
innovative
way
of
looking
at
it,
but
I
I
think
we
should
be
just
we
should
be
discussing
this
on
the
forefront
of
this
is
a
policy
and
working
out
the
policy
details
rather
than
designing
a
policy
to
specif
to
fit
one
specific
site,
and
I
understand
why
the
site
can't
get
discussed
with
us,
but
I
feel
like
this
is
this
could
be
a
great
policy
tool,
but
but
I
also
you
know
I:
it
feels
backwards
that
we're
looking
to
acquire
a
piece
of
land
holding
off,
doing
a
long
discussed
down
payment
policy
to
redraft
something
for
a
hypothetical
piece
of
lamb
and
then
designing
the
policy
when
we
should
be
discussing
this
idea
of
this
policy,
because
I
mean
this-
I
mean-
I
guess,
there's
one
that
was
on
the
committee
when
oak
hill
was
being
discussed
and
it
wasn't
brought
to
us
in
full
light
ahead
of
time,
and
we
warned
them
like
there's
a
lot
of
stuff
on
this
site.
B
Don't
do
this
or
or
even
oak
hill.
Is
this
prime
example:
oh
kill?
Yes,
it
wasn't
perfect
for
the
site
for
what
it
was
going
to
be,
but
oak
hill
could
be
actually
a
model
site
for
using
for
this
kind
of
program
for
designing
a
house
around,
because
oak
hill
could
be
a
single
family
home
site.
So
I
I
think,
that's
what
I'd
just
like
to
see
is,
like
a
you
know
again
with
our
keeping
our
foot
in
the
door
that
this
could
be
a
great
policy
discussion.
B
But
if
we're
looking
at
shifting
down
payment
assistance,
which
is
something
this
committee
has
spent,
god
knows
how
many
years
on
to
then
say:
halt
on
this,
because
we're
not
going
to
put
it
on
one
specific
site
to
adjust
the
policy
I'm
like.
Well,
let's
look
at
designing
a
policy
that
fits
other
pieces
of
land.
So
that's
that's
kind
of
why
I
wanted
to
bring
this
up
and
why?
B
I
guess,
maybe
what
we'll
do
on
our
agenda
for
next
time
is
discuss.
If
this
isn't
works,
then
discuss
a
specific
application
of
down
payment
assistance
for
specific
one.
You
know
for
for
this
dollar
lot
program.
That's
that's
my
thought
on
this.
K
Absolutely-
and
I
I
guess
from
what
I
understand
a
hack-
would
have
the
ability
to
say
I
would
assume
or
make
the
recommendation.
I
could
be
wrong
here.
I
don't
think
legal's
on,
but
you
all
could
say
that
you
don't
think
that
this
is
an
appropriate
use
of
down
payment
assistance
and
that
you
want
and
out.
You
know
the
the
traditional
form
and
and
let's
get
that
back
out
to
rfp,
to
see
if
somebody
wants
to
be
able
to
run
that
program
and
work
that
process
or
you
could
say
that
you
know.
K
Obviously,
when
we
examine
the
due
diligence,
the
environmental
and
all
that
stuff.
And
if
that
looks
good,
we
would
come
back
to
say
we,
the
the
we're
we're
recommending
staff
if
we
do
of
using
a
million
dollars
to
put
into
this,
to
create
40
lots
for
home
ownership,
and
then
the
committee
would
then
debate
that
whether
they
think
that's,
I
don't
know
if
we'd
have
to
create
a
policy
around
using
the
funding
like
that.
But
I
don't
know
I'd
have
to
ask
legal
if
we'd
have
to
actually
change
the
policy.
K
K
J
Yeah-
maybe
maybe
this
is
for
next
month
and
a
follow-up
discussion
on
this,
but
I
the
I
would
compare
down
payment
assistance
versus
this
sort
of
development
funding
model.
It's
sort
of
the
difference
between
you
know.
We've
talked
a
lot
about
housing,
choice,
vouchers
lately
and
versus
you
know,
project
based
or
site,
specific
housing.
J
You
know
we
have
lots
of
tools
to
develop,
affordable
housing.
What
we
don't
have
is
a
tool,
that's
flexible,
that
allows
buyers
to
move
in
the
market
and
to
create
affordability
throughout
our
housing
market
and
that's
what
a
down
payment
assistance
loan
does.
It'll
it
lets
the
individual
buyer
initiate
the
creation
of
affordable
housing.
J
You
know
by
working
within
the
market
so
to
take
that
and
then
layer
it
on
to
you
know
a
development-oriented
subsidy
I
mean
it.
The
pragmatist
in
me
says:
that's
probably
the
best
way
for
us
to
get
this.
You
know
money
out
the
door
by
the
end
of
the
bond
cycle,
but
from
a
policy
standpoint,
it's
they're
two
separate
tools
and
we
have
a
lot
of
tools
for
place-based
development.
What
we
don't
have
is
this
sort
of
market
corrective
tool
that
a
down
payment
assistance
loan
can
be
for
an
individual
home
buyer.
J
B
Yeah,
I
think,
let's
I
think,
that's
what
we'll
do
we'll
move
this
again,
the
next
agenda
item
and
we'll
specifically
talk
about
that
yeah
because
I
think
you're
right
andy.
I
think
they're
two,
I
think
they're
two
separate
things
and
I
think
that's
it.
We
should
before
a
pr.
You
know
a
piece
of
land
gets
committed
to
with
the
idea
that
that's
that
funding
was
going
to
go
to.
We
should
really
discuss
this
as
a
policy,
because
maybe
I
mean
they
could
be
both.
It
doesn't
have
to
be
one
or
the
other.
B
I
mean
one
could
be
purchased
during
you
know
through
land,
banking
and
then
the
lots
you
know
it
doesn't
have
to
be
one
or
the
other,
and
I
and
I
do
you-
know
yeah
my
my
hurt
syncs
a
little
bit
thinking
about
a
down
payment
program.
That's
put
so
much
work
into
towards
not
being
kind
of
portable.
You
know,
but.
K
Yeah
and
absolutely
appreciate
that-
and
I
do
not
mean
to
be
difficult
at
all
here,
but
you
know,
please
know
that
that
there
was
difficulty
completely
disagreement
amongst
ahack
and
others
about
whether
this
would
be
a
grant
or
a
loan.
We
identified
from
the
onset.
It
was
eighty
thousand
dollars
to
purchase
a
price
down
the
down
payment
assistance
policy
that
we
put
forward,
I
think,
was
a
max
of
only
putting
thirty
five
thousand
dollars
into
it.
Where
does
the
rest
of
that
money
come?
K
I
think
it
could
be
easily
argued
that
now
that's
a
hundred
thousand
dollars
that
we
need
down
payment
assistance.
Is
that
a
grant
or
a
loan?
Are
we
going
to
do
10
loans
out
of
the
million
dollars
and
then
grant
it?
What
does
that
look
like?
These
are
all
the
difficult
issues
that
we've
talked
about
coming
to
terms
no
judgment,
just
pasting,
some
facts
here
and
it's
it's
a
very
difficult
discussion
on
getting
some
some
agreement
forward
and
then
can
we
putting
it
back
out
there.
K
You
know
it
was
like
you
know,
asking
people
to
say
what
do
you
recommend
a
grant
or
a
loan
and
then
what
amount
could
come
back?
All
of
that
will
factor
into
it,
and
so
just
that
we
look
at
this
as
a
potential.
K
No
decision
has
been
made,
but
could
this
be
using
this
million
dollars
this
one
chance
million
dollars?
Is
there
a
chance
to
go
in
on
the
front
end
to
andy's
point
on
the
land,
and
then
how
do
we
go
in
on
the
find
a
partner
to
go
on
the
back
end
for
the
rest
of
the
money,
because
we
know
what
housing
prices
have
been
and
are
so?
K
That's
just
to
say
is
you
know,
there's
still
difficult
conversations
to
be
had
around
this
in
the
future
and
we're
not
looking
for
in
easy
way
out,
but
we
think
wow.
This
could
actually
assist
40
home
buyers
and
buy
the
price
down,
maybe
by
50
or
60
000,
then
what
can
we
do
if
we
partner
with
certain
developers
who
are
in
the
business
for
lower
housing
costs
and
how
does
it
all
work?
So
all
good?
B
Yep
yeah,
I
do
think
any
anything
I
mean
without
obviously
doing
the
site
anything
with
40.
Lots
probably
would
be
almost
you
know,
with
our
experience
with
the
city
would
be
almost
two
years
before
it
would
even
be
ready
to
be
sold.
You
know
to
individual
buyers,
you
know
unless
it's
a
perfect
piece
of
land
with
everything
it's
just.
You
know
this
process
takes
a
long
time
for
development.
Here
I
mean
my
I'm
selling
houses
in
one
of
my
developments
now
that
we've
owned
the
land
for
five
years.
B
It
just
takes
a
long
time
so
anyway,
but
what
I'll
do
is
I'll
get
andy's
question
because
we
do
have
to
move
forward
dropping
out,
but
we
will.
We
will
have
this
up
as
a
specific
thing
for
next
meeting.
J
B
Good
just
keep
going
all
right
thanks
all
right
thanks
it
was.
It
was
a
fun
down
payment
assistance,
conversation,
housing,
trust,
fund,
free
rebate,
penalties.
Is
there
any
study?
You
know?
I
know
we
talked
about
wanting
to
look
at
some
data.
Maybe
we
just
need
to
look
at
some
examples
of
like
what,
if
you
know,
what
are
the
what
ifs
like?
I
don't
even
understand
like
if
someone
that
that
way,
we
know
like
I
don't
know
what
exactly
the
penalties
are.
B
K
So
it's
written
into,
I
believe
the
trust
fund
and
luigi
have
language
written
into
them
and
the
policies,
but
it's
interesting
over
the
last.
This
question
comes
up
every
couple
weeks
from
people
wanting
to
so
far.
We
haven't
had
to
had
this
happen
and
we've
written
in.
K
I
I'm
getting
the
sense,
and
I've
made
a
note
that
that
the
community
feels
like
we
need
to
strengthen
the
penalty
around
these
policies,
but
no
one
is
needs
to
be
penalized,
so
not
that
we
want
to
be
very
aware
of
that
and
janice,
and
I
have
talked
about
this
janice,
ashley
and
legal
that
you
know.
Do
we
need
to
re
it's
on
my
list
to
retake
a
look
at.
K
Does
the
policy
talk
strongly
enough
about
the
penalties
and
what
to
do
we
feel
it
does,
but
maybe
we
need
to
beef
up
that
section
a
little
bit,
although
you
know
carte
horse
we're
not
seeing
a
bunch
of
people
fall
out
of
none.
As
far
as
I'm
aware
of
out
of
compliance,
however,
this
question
comes
up
literally
every
two
to
three
weeks.
I
get
an
email
about
it
like
what,
if
what?
If
so,
I
want
to
address
those.
B
Yeah,
maybe
let's
run
a
couple
of
individual
scenarios
that
way
we
see
what
the
like
just
spreadsheet,
one
or
two
specific
examples
to
see
what
they
it
would
be.
The
same
way
like
we
just
did
this
fee
rebate
study
thing
that
showed
of
you
know
only
15.
Without
any
you
know
mandates
only
fifteen
percent
of
them
ended
up
outside
of
it.
So
I
don't
know,
that's
we'll
we'll
kind
of
explore
that,
but
I'm
curious
to
know
like
what
how
to
quantify
what
that
looks
like
if
someone
builds
an
eight
plex
and
two
units
are
great.
B
You
know
supposed
to
be
for
affordable
housing
and
then
it
changes.
What
is
the
penalty
because
there
might
be
that
penalty
might
already
be
what
we
are
discussing
of
a
small
scale
rebate
like
an
adjustable
rebate.
That's
in
place
that
it's
a
you
know
through
the
back
end,
rather
than
the
front
end.
I
don't
know,
but
we'll
we'll
try
to
explore
some
specific
examples,
so
we
can
discuss
this
a
little
bit
better
copy
that
barry.
Thank
you
all
right.
I
do
need
to
work
towards
wrapping
up
one
things
I
did.
B
I
do
one
public
comment
we
need
to
get.
We
will
get
to
and
then
ask
for
more.
There
was
a
section
called
innovations
in
affordable
housing.
So
what
I
did
I
wanted
to
share
part
of
it
was
a
discussion
about
the
micro
apartments
and
and
and
then
also
about
tiny
houses.
So
raleigh
raleigh's
planning
commission
just
passed
an
ordinance
that
allows
tiny
houses
to
be.
B
You
know
to
be
used
as
basically
adu,
so
it
allows
them
in
all
of
their
zonings
in
residential
zonings
now
in
their
like,
so
they
can
be
backyard
homes
they
have
to.
They
have
to
meet
the
specific
like
hud
requirements.
B
You
know
whatever
the
events
are
for
building
them
as
park
model
trailers,
but
but
I
shared
that
in
I
shared
raleigh's
what
past
raleigh's
planning
commission
in
the
document,
so
I'd
like
to
kind
of
just
take
a
look
at
that,
because
I
think
this
will
come
up
as
a
conversation
specifically
for
us
as
an
affordable
housing
tool.
If
we're
going
to
look
at
doing
rebates,
whether
it's
luigi
or
or
whatever,
is
the
rebate
the
same
or
does
it
need
to
be
scaled
because
of
the
size
of
the
unit?
B
You
know
so
the
conversation
will
be
on
like
this
one.
I
think
it's
called
the
niche.
Hilliard
is
an
example.
This
micro
apartment,
complex,
which
is,
I
think,
is
a
great
great
idea,
but
it's
putting
eight
things
like
80
units
that
are
about
200
something
square
feet
and
if
they
designate
20
affordable.
B
What
should
does
that?
Does
that
count,
or
is
there
some
kind
of
square
footage
minimum?
So
I
think
it's
an
interesting
topic
and
I
think
I
was
really
pleased
to
see
you
know
that
coming
up
and
then
also
really
pleased
to
see
raleigh,
you
know
passing
a
lot,
the
allowing
tiny
homes-
and
I
think
that
you
know,
might
open
up
the
conversation
for
for
here.
So
we
can.
F
B
B
There
are
so
many
people
trying
so
many
innovative
things
from
3d
printing
to
tiny
houses
to
panel
housing,
to
all
sorts
of
things
so
like
to
keep
that
the
conversation
and
with
that,
let's
see
when
thing
events
news
so
just
do
one
of
again
bringing
everyone's
attention
reminder
about
the
developers
forum
on
november
19th
and
then
the
lot
star
partner
event.
I've
heard
it's
being
it's
gonna
be
pushed
into
next
year
is
what
I've
heard.
So
I
can
maybe
share
some
updates
on.
B
I
don't
think
a
date's
been
set
for
next
year,
but
I
know
it
has
been
pushed
off
until
next
year.
All
right
with
that
public
comment,
we
have.
We
received
one
public
comment
from
kristin,
molina,
nauert
and
I'll
go
ahead
and
read
this
some
of
the
suggestions,
such
as
increasing
supply
at
the
cost
of
affordability,
80,
20,
10,
110
10
are
contradictory
to
the
purpose
of
this
commission.
If
you
only
focus
on
supply
without
an
equity
lens,
just
let
unfitted
capitalism
do
its
work
with
asheville's
ever
increasing
popularity.
B
The
demand
side
cannot
be
met
with
slow
construction
supply
in
the
next
handful
of
years.
If
you
encourage
development
for
the
sake
of
supply,
without
the
affordability
guidelines,
those
units
will
go
to
folks
with
more
resources
likely
newcomers
rather
than
the
people
who
are
struggling
now.
Thank
you,
zakiyah
about
rogers
for
naming
the
danger
of
loopholes
and
the
difficulty
of
many
of
surviving
in
asheville.
B
I
really
appreciate
andy
barnett
reframing,
that
the
80
20
20
rule
is
with
large
rental
complexes
in
mind
that
a
more
targeted
approach
that
recognizes
the
different
needs
and
opportunities
of
different
types
of
developments
it
used,
duplexes
etc
makes
sense.
Similarly,
thank
you,
babs
phillip,
for
bringing
that
fred
up
explicitly
appreciate
very
bialyx
idea
of
asking
landlords,
adu
owners
directly.
What
incentive
would
help
them
keep
units
affordable
thanks?