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From YouTube: City Council Work Session – March 8, 2022
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A
Okay,
welcome
to
the
council
work
session
on
what
we're
calling
the
open
space
text
amendment
we're
going
to
learn
a
little
bit
more
about
what
that
is,
and
I
I
think
we're
getting
kicked
off
here
with
our
planning
director
todd
okla-chaney.
B
These
draft
regulations
intentionally
balance
city
goals
related
to
housing
and
the
environment,
living
actual
comprehensive
plan
strategy
to
reduce
barriers
to
infill
housing,
and
that
this
effort
was
a
collaboration
between
eight
boards
and
commissions
and
city
staff
over
several
month,
long
period
that
led
to
the
creation
of
an
open
space
task
force
and
we'll
talk
about
some
of
the
recommendations
by
that
task
force
during
this
presentation.
B
So
you
might
ask
the
question:
why
should
we
update
open
space
regulations?
Basically
the
housing
needs
assessment
or
which
we
all
know
is.
The
bowen
report
recommends
continued
re
evaluation
of
zoning
barriers
related
to
housing,
and
over
the
past
few
years,
we've
made
a
number
of
different
zoning
amendments
that
have
removed
these
regulatory
zoning
barriers
to
encourage
more
infill
housing
opportunities.
B
B
Housing
production
has
not
kept
up
with
the
increasing
population
growth
and
that
alleviating
supply
constraints
would
have
a
significant
impact
on
the
racial
wealth
gap
and
that's
primarily
due
to
differences
in
homeownership
rates.
B
Historically,
this
recent
research,
again
released
in
2021
by
the
white
house
indicates
that
if
black
families
were
as
likely
as
white
families
to
own
a
home,
that
median
black
wealth
would
be
possibly
up
to
thirty
two
thousand
dollars
higher
and
that
for
hispanic
families,
equalizing
the
likelihood
of
owning
a
home
would
increase
median
hispanic
wealth
by
approximately
twenty
nine
thousand
dollars.
B
So
what
are
some
of
the
primary
goals
of
our
open
space
regulations,
as
I
mentioned
before,
this
is
a
key
goal
and
strategy
of
the
living
asheville
comprehensive
plan
that
we
should
continue
to
evaluate
our
zoning
regulations
and
find
opportunities
for
more
housing,
but
over
the
course
of
this
open
space
text,
amendment
process,
which
we
started,
believe
it
or
not.
Before
the
pandemic,
we've
been
working
on
this
for
some
time
after
we
spoke
with
the
open
space
task
force
and
community
members.
B
So
all
these
types
of
open
spaces
on
private
property
are
very
common,
both
that
passive
and
recrea
recreational
type
open
space
and
we'll
find
that
in
these
types
of
examples
throughout
the
city,
this
is
just
a
quick
break
before
we
get
into
the
actual
meet
of
the
open
space
text.
Amendment
proposal
and
I'll
stop
real
quick.
Just
to
see,
if
you
have
any
questions
so
far,
thank
you
so
I'm
gonna
hand
it
over
to.
C
Yes,
I
want
to
ask
you
a
question.
I
I
noticed
that
when
you
first
started
off
there,
you
were
talking
about
the
advantages
for
hispanic
and
black
homeowners
if
they
owned
homes
or
were
able
to
get
decent
rentals,
I
was
just
wondering:
is
there
any
way
that
we
can
ensure
that
by
actually
reducing
the
open
space
developers
that
actually
take
advantage
of
that
actually
are
required
in
some
way
to
give
us
more
affordable
units?
B
B
Excuse
me
to
provide
more
affordable
housing,
especially
for
like
kind
of
that
missing
middle
or
for
single
family
type
style
of
development.
But
we
we
don't
have
any
requirement
today
that
you
know
a
single
family
house
or
maybe
a
duplex
or
a
town
home
that
it
has
to
be.
You
know,
affordable
well,.
C
And
that's
the
reason,
I'm
concerned,
because,
basically,
if
you
look
at
a
lot
of
the
developers
and
what
they're
building,
even
with
the
80
percent
ami
and
things
of
that,
nature
still
does
not
actually
address
the
actual,
affordable
problem
that
the
community
found
ourselves
faced
with
in
actuality,
we
could
look
up
and
have
a
lot
more
housing.
But
still
you
know
just
a
drop
in
the
bucket
for
the
actual
problem
that
the
city
actually
has.
B
Yeah
and
what
I'm
just
trying
to
suggest
with
some
of
the
research
that
that's
been
released
recently,
that
there
is,
there
is
a
correlation
between
housing,
supply
and
and
affordability,
and
our
population
continues
to
grow
and
therefore
the
need
for
just
more
more
housing
in
general,
and
I
think
some
of
this
research
research
is
starting
to
suggest
that
just
supply
is
just
one
of
those
metrics.
But
there
are
a
lot
of
other
metrics
that
we
should.
You
know
utilize
to
try
to
address
the
affordability
component,
yeah.
C
And
that
that's
what
I'd
like
to
see
if
there
was
some
kind
of
way
that
you
know,
if
maybe
you
have
some
idea
of
any
ideas
that
we
can
actually
you
know
sort
of
actually
make
it
actually
benefit
the
people
that
you
say
that
you're
trying
to
help.
Thank
you.
B
Thank
you.
I'm
going
to
head
over
now
to
vadilla
safika
to
talk
more
about
what
we're
proposing.
D
Thanks
todd,
so
let's
just
dive
into
the
meat
of
it
where
the
first
slide
you're
looking
at
here,
is
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
the
open
space
task
force.
So
when
this
this
question
of
open
space
was
to
come
to
city
council,
I
think
it
was
about
two
years
ago.
Now
there
was
a
lot
of
concern
around
around
it
and
you,
you
probably
heard
from
lots
of
different
members,
so
we
decided
to
slow
down
and
to
create
this
open
space
task
force
made
up
of
eight
different
boards
and
commissions.
D
D
D
So
big
picture:
what
properties
are
required
to
provide
open
space
for
residential,
it's
eight
or
more
homes
that
that
could
be
separate
homes
as
part
of
a
subdivision,
or
it
could
be
eight
nine
apartments
in
one
building
that
would
be
required
to
provide
that
open
space
for
commercial
projects.
D
D
So
let's
look
at
the
first
one
residential
under
the
current
regulations,
a
project
has
to
provide
500
square
feet
of
open
space
per
residential
unit,
that's
provided
or
15
of
a
parcel,
and,
whichever
is
greater,
it
turns
out
that
this
is
one
of
the
clauses
that
is
most
restrictive
for
open
space
in
asheville,
and
what
we're
proposing
on
the
right
is
a
tiered
system
that
benefits
the
smallest
projects.
That
tend
to
be
on
the
smallest
parcels,
and
the
idea
is
that
there
are
many
different
things
happening
on
small
parcels.
They
have
to
typically
provide
parking.
D
What
you
can
see
is
that
we're
moving
from
20
open
space
to
a
little
bit
less
some
of
the
idea
there
is
that
in
a
subdivision,
you
have
parcels
of
land
that
are
created
into
homes
and
you
have
a
front
and
backyard
which
is
kind
of
open
space.
So
it
there's
some
rationale
in
reducing
that
open
space,
because
you
have
some
open
some,
some
of
your
own
open
space
anyway
from
commercial,
commercial
developments,
we're
keeping
the
lowest
limit
the
same
and
the
higher
limit
we're
suggesting
to
move
down
for
storm
water.
D
D
We're.
What
we're
saying
really
is
just
that,
if
you're
an
affordable
housing
project,
you
don't
need
to
meet
these
higher
storm
water
standards
that
we
are
now
proposing
to
implement,
because
we
want
to
balance
this.
This
need
for
affordable
housing
that
council
member
kilgore
brought
up
and
the
fee
in
lieu
is
proposed
to
be
the
same
okay.
So,
let's
get
into
it
so
yeah
can.
A
D
Yes,
it's
it,
and,
admittedly,
it's
a
little
confusing,
because
you
would
think
that
somehow
by
providing
storm
water,
you
have
to
provide
open
space.
What
we're
trying
to
say
here
is
that
typically
storm
water
today,
under
the
current
regulations,
are
not
a
factor
in
in
open
space.
A
D
D
Okay,
I
see
we're
saying
you're
right
that
that
may
be
misleading
there.
There
are
plenty
of
stormwater
requirements
under
the
existing
the
current
regulations,
but
related
specifically
to
open
space.
There
is
no
either
incentive
or
language
that
would
affect
how
storm
water
is,
is
implemented.
Storm
water
is
managed
by
the
storm
water
code.
D
This
is
a
chart
that
shows
different
cities
along
the
bottom,
with
blue,
showing
the
low
open
space
requirements
and
red
showing
the
high
requirements.
So
every
city
has
different
standards
and
they
vary,
and
what
you
can
see
on
the
far
right
is
that
asheville's
high
requirements
are
off
the
charts.
D
There
was
a
book
written
recently
by
the
founder
who
coined
the
the
missing
middle
housing
movement
that
is
about
trying
to
better
accommodate
infill
development
through
small
buildings
that
that
we
would
have
seen
historically
that
we
have
sort
of
moved
away
from
and
without
getting
into
mr
miller
housing.
D
I
just
want
to
highlight
this
in
that
in
in
this
literature
they're
pointing
to
open
space,
these
private,
open
space
regulations
that
we're
discussing
as
a
remnant
of
of
a
suburban
type
of
development
that
is
outdated
and
in
a
hindrance
to
most
cities
goals,
so
here's
a
specific
project
to
really
bring
it
in
home.
This
is
a
building
that
has
20
units.
This
is
just
north
of
downtown
on
east
chestnut
and
off
of
merriman.
D
My
family
lived
in
there
for
a
year,
and
this
was
built
before
the
open
space
regulations
were
put
in
place.
But
if
we
look
at
the
site
and
think
how
would
today's
regulations
work
or
play
out
in
this
scenario?
This
is
what
we
get
on
the
left.
The
the
the
image
shows
what
the
current
open
space
regulations
would
require
in
the
shading
that
entire
77
that's
orange.
D
Would
have
to
be
set
aside
for
open
space,
so
obviously
incredibly
prohibitive
and
on
the
right
is
the
amount
of
open
space
that
we
are
proposing
through
this
amendment.
That
would
vary
between
10
and
15
and
there's
a
range
that
I'll
get
into
later,
but
it
basically
has
to
do
with
the
quality
of
open
space.
So
if
you
make
better
open
space,
we're
saying
you
don't
have
to
provide
as
much,
but
the
difference
is
is
is
important
here
and
I'll
highlight
that
this
is
a
key.
D
E
Sorry,
sorry
technology
did
you
find
any
cities
that
had
more
open
space
requirements
in
asheville.
D
No,
certainly
not
when
you
look
at
the
the
heights
of
or
the
the
high
limits
that
our
standards
lead
to.
C
Also,
I'd
just
like
to
ask
you
a
question:
would
that
be
because
of
our
terrain
and
here
because
it's
a
little
different
than
maybe
greenville
or
some
of
the
other
areas,
then
that
would
also
a
factor
in
because
to
me:
that's
a
very
large
a
difference
in
the
open
space
in
the
other
areas.
So
would
you
say
that's
a
big
factor.
D
Well,
I
would
say:
terrain
plays
a
significant
factor.
What
you
would
expect,
though,
from
a
code
that
responds
to
terrain
is
more
flexibility,
because
we
have
so
many
more
constraints
here
and
what
what
we
have
inherited
is
a
code
that
is
severely
more
challenging
than
what
we
have
in
cities
that
are
flat.
D
All
right,
so
this
is
another
example.
This
is
a
proposal
that
has
come
to
the
city
and
it
hasn't
been
adopted.
But
what
you
see
on
the
left
is
the
blue
boxes
are
two
11
unit
buildings.
So
you
can
imagine
these
as
four-story
structures
with
11
housing
units
in
each
one
and
under
the
current
regulations.
D
Basically,
almost
half
of
the
entire
parcel
would
have
to
be
used
for
open
space,
and
you
can
see
the
the
parking
spaces
there
would
have
to
be
given
up
in
this
part
of
the
city.
We
actually
don't
require
off-street
parking,
so
they
could
have
moved
forward
with
a
project
like
this,
but
most
developers
and
property
owners
want
to
accommodate
that
because
it's
a
real
need
also.
D
Good
good
point:
good
point:
you
may
not
have
any
financing
in
if
you
don't
provide
these
essentials
right.
So,
under
the
proposed
ordinance,
depending
on
the
quality
of
open
space,
you
have
to
provide
10
to
15
percent,
which
allows
you
to
have
the
parking
and
allows
you
to
have
the
building
units
now
the
next
slide.
D
I
want
to
clarify
that
both
these
image
is
what
we're
looking
at.
Is
this
consideration
of
what
happens
if
we
don't
make
any
changes
to
to
the
open
space
standards
so
on
the
left,
these
you
can
think
of
this
as
two
options
for
the
property
owner
on
the
left
on
the
bottom.
You
can
see
it
says:
option
one
sacrifice
parking,
you
could
potentially
say.
D
Let's
say
we
don't
need
financing,
we're
going
to
build
this
project,
we're
going
to
make
11
units
in
each
in
each
structure
and
we're
going
to
not
worry
about
the
parking,
because
it's
not
required
in
the
city.
That's
a
possibility
for
them
on
the
right
is
another
option
they
could,
instead
of
making
11
units
in
each
building,
only
build
four,
so
they're
the
same
four-story
structures,
but
instead
of
three
or
four
units
in
each
floor.
D
D
D
So
I
think
we
have
two
more
slides
before
a
question
break.
This
is
now
looking
at
residential
subdivisions.
Under
today's
code
we
require
20
open
space,
and
this
image
shows
what
we
get
a
lot
of
the
time.
What
you
see
is
the
open
space
is
provided
in
two
separate
chunks
that
sort
of
take
advantage
of
the
parts
of
the
land
that
are
less
accessible
for
development,
they're
on
steeper
slopes
or
on
a
ravine,
and
not
great
for
actually
providing
open
space.
D
So
what
we
are
suggesting
is
that
the
open
space
has
a
minimum
of
40
feet
along
road
frontage,
so
that,
if
you're
in
the
housing
subdivision,
it's
it's
clear
kind
of
where
the
little
open
space
begins
and
ends.
D
And
recently
we
have
been
discussing
a
possibility.
That
is,
instead
of
providing
open
space
for
subdivisions
to
allow
a
project
to
choose
instead
to
increase
their
total
tree
canopy
preservation.
D
So
the
idea
here
is
that
a
developer
could
choose
to
provide
open
space
in
a
subdivision
or
instead
to
increase
their
overall
tree
canopy
and
to
not
provide
the
open
space
and
just
to
provide
more
trees.
D
So
I
that
that
seems
to
be
something
that
the
community
here
is
interested
in,
because
it's
more
tree
canopy
and
I
think,
there's
a
general
understanding
that
we
don't
need
to
provide
open
space
in
a
subdivision
like
we
might
in
an
apartment
building
where
people
don't
have
access
to
open
space.
Here,
you've
got
your
backyard,
you
can
go
and
have
your
grill
out
or
whatever
so
I'll
pause
for
questions.
A
D
We
do
not
a
lot
of
them,
but
I'd
say
every
year
we
get
two
or
three.
Maybe
I
don't
know
if
ben
knows
off
the
top
of
his
head
because
he
sees
us
coming
through
more,
but
we
we
still
get
them
more.
D
A
Do
you
you
know,
I
noticed
I
was
in
char
in
charleston,
not
in
the
city
of
charleston,
but
another
city
adjacent
to
charleston,
since
they
don't
have
involuntary
annexation.
They
just
have
a
million
cities,
they
don't
need
more
either,
but
they
have
clearly
an
ordinance
that
requires
the
preservation
of
live
oaks
or
did
at
some
point
in
the
development
of
subdivision.
A
I
mean
it's
kind
of
fascinating
you'll,
see
these
enormous
live
oaks
in
the
front
yard,
and
I
don't
know
how
the
construction
doesn't
manage
to
kill
them,
but
I
mean
and
I'm
not
sure
how
they
do
it
if
they
incentivize
it
or
if
they
just
mandate
it
have
you
guys,
looked
at
any
and
we
don't
have
a
live.
You
know
quite
the
same.
I
know
there's
a
concerted
effort
to
preserve
live
oaks
in
the
low
country,
but
have
you
all
looked
at
any
samples
of
cities
where
they
have
a
mandatory
tree
preservation?
D
Well
I'll
say
that
the
the
current
tree
preservation
ordinance
is
applied
to
our
even
subdivisions,
but
the
as
you
as
you
all
know.
The
tree
preservation
ordinance
allows
you
to
take
everything
down
and
to
replant,
I
believe,
there's
convert.
There
are
conversations
right
now
with
the
urban
forestry
commission,
to
update
the
tree
preservation
ordinance
and
to
try
to
figure
out
a
way
to
preserve
certain
specimen
trees.
A
D
Prohibited
well
I'll,
just
follow
up
quickly
to
say
that
I'll
mention
it
toward
the
end
of
this
conversation,
a
very
exciting
development
from
this
that
will
be
incredibly
better
for
trees
in
asheville
if
it
moves
forward
so
stay
tuned
for
that,
but
that's
coming
out
of
the
open
space
task
force
and
it's
at
the
end
of
this
presentation.
F
I
have
a
question
a
few
questions
number
one:
how
do
we
arrive
at
the
area?
Median
income?
That's
included
in
this.
D
We
discussed
the
recommendations
with
the
affordable
housing
advisory
committee
and
since
they're
sort
of
the
nuts
and
bolts
of
affordable
housing
and
recommendations.
We
use
their
guidance
and-
and
those
are
the
numbers
that
we
use
because.
F
Were
the
urban
forestry
commission
and
the
neighborhood
advisory
committee,
the
neighborhood
advisory
committee,
among
the
conversations
that
they
had
were
concerns
around
gentrification
and
especially
of
legacy
neighborhoods.
So
I'm
curious
of
the
timing
on
this.
If
we're
going
to
have
a
conversation
in
our
retreat
about
whether
or
not
we're
looking
at
a
community
benefits
table
for
housing
development,
should
we
consider
this
alongside
it?
What
are
what
is
the
impact,
and
could
we
consider
property
that
we
know
that
was
taken
during
urban
renewal
and
redlining
and
any
adjacent
properties
and
exempt?
D
Well,
what
I
would
say-
I
guess,
there's
a
lot
in
that
question-
that
a
key
component
of
this
recommendation
is
to
reduce
open
space
regulations,
because
we
believe
that
they
are
broken
and
they
they
don't
allow
the
city
to
to
build
for
developers
to
to
complete
the
infill
housing
that
we
need.
So
if
this
moves
forward,
this
would
support
a
greater
number
of
housing
units
in
asheville,
and
some
of
those
would
be
apartments
that
typically
are
less
expensive
and
more
affordable.
F
D
Well,
that's
you
know.
Ultimately,
it's
up
to
the
council.
I
one
perspective
is
would
be
that,
since
this
ordinance
was
put
into
place
over
20
years
ago,
we've
been
undermining
infill
housing.
We
can
continue
to
leave
the
current
ordinance
in
place.
That
continues
to
do
that.
You
know.
D
G
And
if,
if
I
could
add,
also
that
miss
ronnie
in
terms
of
the
timing
of
the
benefits
table
for
our
entire
zoning
ordinance
or
for
multi-family
or
for.
G
I
guess
I
I
would
just
say
that
from
a
staff
resource
perspective
at
that
time,
I'll
defer
to
you,
just
I
guess
in
terms
of
timing,
sure,
what's
gonna,
I
yeah.
B
Come
first,
I
could
definitely
speak
a
little
bit
to
we
last
year.
I
think
it
was
late
summer
early
fall.
We
did
hold
some
initial
focus
group
meetings,
some
smaller
focus
group
meetings
with
some
developers
and
designers
to
get
a
sense
of
asking
questions.
What
if
we
expand
the
public
benefits
system
outside
of
hotels
to
other
districts
in
the
city,
and
one
of
those
suggestions
was
that
came
out
from
that
is
well.
Maybe
we
just
look
at
our
form-based
code
districts
where
we
have
a.
B
We
have
a
form
based
code,
that
that
says
what
we
want:
the
projects
to
look
like
from
a
built
environment,
physical
perspective
and
then
what
type
of
benefits
should
we
should
we
think
about?
Should
they
be
the
same
as
the
hotel
projects,
or
should
we
have
other
benefits?
That
would
also
enhance
other
other
neighborhood
amenities.
B
Since
that
time
we
haven't
picked
it
back
up.
It's
been
kind
of
put
candidly
on
the
back
burner,
but
we
do
want
to
take
a
look
at
that
again
from
a
staff
resource
perspective.
It.
I
think
it's
something
we
could
look
at
this
year,
but
we
are
working
on
some
other.
You
know
council
priorities
right
now.
The
other
point
I
would
just
make
for
looking
at
expanding
public
benefits
would
apply
to
just
larger
projects,
so
it
would
apply
to
projects
that
you
would
normally
see
in
front
of
council
as
a
conditional
zoning.
B
B
F
That
said,
how
many
like
do
we
have
an
idea
of
what
percentage
of
the
open
space
proposal
acreage
is
identified
as
urban
renewal
property?
Is
there?
What
is
the
overlap.
A
D
That's
right
there.
There
is
a
related
rezoning
that
we're
suggesting
of
two
city-owned
properties,
but
those
aside.
Yes,.
A
A
E
Just
quickly
this,
this
alternate
to
increase
total
tree
canopy
preservation
is:
are
we
just
suggesting
that's
only
going
to
be
for
residential
subdivisions,
or
is
that
alternative
available
for
other
other
projects?
We.
H
H
As
far
as
speaking
to
other
initiatives
that
may
come
to
surface,
but
I
do
want
to
say
a
couple
things
so
we're
talked
this
starts
with
issues
around
affordable
housing
and
needed
housing
supply,
and,
generally
speaking,
you
know
you
mentioned
supply
as
an
issue,
but
also
over
regulation
is
an
issue
when
trying
to
create
more
supply-
and
I'm
not
saying
we're
over
regulating
here,
but
I
have
this
growing
concern
that
we
are
piecemeal,
updating
our
udo
to
the
point
where
it
is
more
challenging
and
therefore
expensive,
to
develop
design
plan.
H
A
project
in
this
community-
and
my
example
here
is
that
now,
if
you
want
to
do
a
subdivision
that
we
desperately
need
or
an
apartment
complex,
you
now
need
to
have
a
specialist
on
your
team
that
you
pay
to
figure
this
out
and
what
comes
to
mind
is
when
jeff
stoddinger
left
the
city
and
asked
50
people
that
he
felt
were
innovators
in
affordable
housing.
H
What
would
make
affordable
housing
happen
faster
in
our
community
and
one
of
the
things
that
came
up
that
we
still
haven't
implemented,
but
I
still
highly
recommend
it
is
ombudsman
for
some
of
this
stuff,
because
I
know
we're
understaffed.
I
don't
know
what
dsd
staffing
is
like,
but
when
we
add
all
this
stuff,
which
in
this
case
I
support
and
just
moving
forward,
it's
just
we're
getting
more
and
more
complicated
to
follow
along
what
all
the
rules
are
where
all
the
utilities
overlay
is.
H
I
mean
there
are
things
out
there
that
people
don't
agree
on
with
changes
to
this
last
year
and
where
utilities
are
falling
and
is
it
actually
hurting
canopy,
so
it's
just
getting
more
complicated.
I
would
love
to
hear-
maybe
my
point
here
is
that
are
we:
are
we
planning
to
update
a
udo
in
a
comprehensive
way
that
simplifies
some
of
this?
Is
there
any
talk
of
that,
and
would
you
agree
that
this
is
also
becoming
so
complicated
that
we
might
need
that.
D
We
are
looking
at
this
at
the
same
time
that
we're
looking
at
updates
to
the
tree,
canopy,
preservation,
ordinance
and
the
thing
I
was
going
to
mention
landscaping
updates
to
make
them
agree
and
dovetail
and
and
align
and
making
sure
they're.
They
make
sense.
D
D
I
know
you
know
you
guys
don't
review
projects,
and
so
it's
maybe
particularly
confusing,
but
I
would
I
would
gather
that
any
of
these
changes
that
are
implemented
they're
kind
of
incorporated
pretty
quickly
did
you
want
to
speak
on
the
comp
plan.
B
Sure,
yeah
yeah,
I
could
speak
to
the
udo
updates
just
based
on
you
know,
available
staff
resources
and
financial
resources.
We
have
been
looking
at
this
incremental.
You
know
approach
to
updating
our
udo
to
try
to
address
those
higher
priority
initiatives
and
recommendations
from
the
living
asheville
plan.
B
I
think
one
of
the
most
effective
ways
to
implement
a
comp
plan
is
through
through
zoning.
A
comprehensive
udo
overhaul
could
could
achieve
many
of
the
the
plan's
recommendations,
but
it
also
is
a
significant.
You
know,
I
guess
budgetary
impact,
something
that
would
have
to
be
considered
by
by
council
through
the
budget
process.
H
Thanks-
and
I
just
always
want
to
mention
it
because
I
know
it
needs
to
happen,
but
I
will
say
too:
I
applaud
you
for
going
to
these
eight
boards
and
commissions
and
I'm
daring
to
try
strict
consensus
is
amazing,
but
the
fact
you
got
six
supporting
is
great.
I
I
don't
know
I'm
concerned
about
us
over
regulating
constantly,
and
I
just
wanted
to
share
that.
H
Staffing,
on
the
other
end
too,
and
the
people
that
want
to
build,
but
I
did
hear
from
members
of
the
design,
community
and
professional
community
that
have
to
design
these
projects
that
there
were
concerns.
And
I
know
you
went
to
boards
and
commissions.
But
did
we
get
any
input
from
people
that
have
to
implement
this
and
draw
it.
D
We
have
we've:
we've
met
with
design
professionals,
we
had
some
design
professionals
on
the
open
space
task
force.
So
there's
there's
there's
been
a
lot
of
involvement
and
in
in
the
question
of
over
regulating
you
know
in
some
ways
I
you
we
could.
We
could
say
that
we've
been
over
regulating
for
a
long
time,
and
this
will
help
us
to
streamline
and
to
clarify.
G
I
was
just
to
respond
to
miss
turner's
question
about
an
ombudsman
and
we
do
have
an
expedited
review
process
for
affordable
housing,
and
so
that
serves
pretty
much
as
an
investment
role
and
and
when
we
were
when
I
was
in
charlotte
and
involved
in
planning
when
we
would
adopt
new
ordnances,
we
would
invite
that
industry
into
and
say,
okay,
here's
here's
how
it
goes.
This
is
an
educational
session
for
you
all
to
understand
these
changes
that
have
been
made
to
the
the
zoning
ordinance
and
it
worked
effectively.
G
D
And
that's
a
perfect
segue
to
the
next
part,
that
is
about
commercial
development
and
how
it's
impacted,
and
in
this
chart
on
the
bottom,
you'll
notice
that
there
are
two
bars
for
asheville.
One
shows
asheville
today
and
one
proposed,
but
the
bigger
thing
that
you'll
see
is
that
these
other
cities
don't
have
open
space
requirements
so
again,
just
to
highlight
that
we're
unique
in
that
we're
requiring
commercial
property
to
propose
to
to
build
open
space.
D
Thinking
that,
if
you're
a
business,
you
may
have
a
restaurant
and
you
want
outdoor
seating
if
you're
a
manufacturing
business.
It
still
makes
sense
that
you
provide
some
outdoor
space
for
your
employees
to
have
a
little
lunch
or
something
like
that.
Okay,
so
why
are
we
proposing
such
a
high
open
space
for
commercial
property
if
we
are
trying
to
reduce
our
barriers?
D
Well,
this
is
a
creative
workaround
that
we
are
proposing
for
storm
water,
and
what
we
are
suggesting
is
that
if
for
projects
that
are
one
acre
or
larger,
you
need
to
provide
50
of
your
parcel
as
open
space.
D
D
You
have
to
put
aside
50
of
your
site
as
open
space,
and
most
people
would
not
want
to
do
that,
so
they,
this
is
an
incentive
to
allow
them
to
choose,
to
put
in
probably
what
we
call
storm
tech
systems
or
some
kind
of
a
sub
surface
water,
capturing
system
that
will
gather
the
water
during
heavy
rains
and
hold
it
there
for
a
while
and
slowly
release
it,
and
that
will
allow
them
to
then
develop
more
of
the
property
so
that
they
can
drop
to
the
second
tier,
that's
less
than
one
acre
and
have
an
open
space
requirement.
D
F
D
Well,
50
open
space,
the
open
space.
D
D
Well,
typically,
most
open
space
is
green,
sometimes
it's
hardscape,
and
we
allow
that
in
the
code.
So
if
we
want
to
go
into
the
details,
we
can
some
people
want
to
provide
a
hardscape
plaza
that
has
some
shrubbery
around,
but
is
mostly
hardscape.
D
A
lot
of
open
space
is,
is
grass
some
open
space
has
trees
in
it,
so
it
can
be
kind
of
anything
in
there.
The
idea
with
linking
storm
water
requirements
to
open
space
is
that,
if
you,
it
will
be
assumed
that
a
lot
of
that
land
will
be
collecting
water,
and
so
it's
a
rational
connection
to
either
require
a
lot
of
that
property
to
absorb
water
through
the
surface
or
to
have
them
or
to
give
prop
projects
an
alternative
solution
which
would
be
storing
it
through
subsurface
capture
or
something
like
that.
F
F
If
we're
just
talking
about,
if
we
go
back
to
the
slide
with
the
west
asheville
property
using
this,
if
the
property
was
not
going
to
do
storm
water
mitigation.
F
So
now
we're
talking
about
assuming
that
it
would
be
green
space.
What
could
we
be
looking
forward
to
ensuring
beyond
just
assuming
that
it
will
be
storm
water
mitigation,
green
space
trees
like
this
is
the
concern
that
I'm
hearing
from
the
urban
forestry
commission
from
the
neighborhood
advisory
committee.
If
we
step
away
from
open
space,
we
won't
be
insuring
grain
and
we
lose
our
leverage.
Our
chip
in
the
leverage
of
negotiations.
D
A
Ponds,
that's
going
to
be
what
so
that
right
now
this,
this
property
just
gets
to
let
all
the
water
slough
off
into
the
stormwater
system,
but
but
we
have
examples
of
stormwater
mitigation
measures
that
the
city
has
built
was
associated
with
the
radchip
project,
which
are
very
visible.
Now
those
are
the
kinds
of
things
you're
talking
about
exactly.
D
D
Okay,
so
you've
seen
a
range
we've
been
talking
about
open
space
in
a
lot
of
these
proposals,
ranging
from
five
to
ten
percent.
Ten
fifteen
percent,
and
what
I
said
earlier
was
that
it's
it
would
be
based
upon
the
quality
of
open
space.
So
this
is
the
bit
of
information
that
you
needed
to
know
to
clarify
that
we're
proposing
an
incentive
for
good
design
and
what
it
says
is
that
your
open
space,
total
open
space
may
be
reduced
by
five
percent
if
all
of
these
conditions
are
met.
D
D
You
can
see
still.
There
are
plenty
of
opportunities
for
trees
and
lots
of
green
in
in
some
some
instances.
You'll
have
a
hardscape,
so
it
really
depends
on
the
design
and
the
intent,
but
while
allowing
for
flexibility
so
now
a
couple
last
slides
on
commercial
property
under
the
current
standards
for
commercial
property,
we
allow
the
low
amount
as
five
percent
and
up
to
fifteen
percent
current
under
the
current
regulations.
That's
you
can't
you.
You
you're
allowed
five
percent
open
space
if
you
make
an
urban
sort
of
style
of
development.
D
In
this
case,
this
is
not
urban.
This
is
very
suburban,
so
they
would
be
required
to
do
the
15,
but
under
the
proposed,
if
we
assume
that
this
project
voluntarily
complies
with
these
stormwater
control
measures
that
we've
been
discussing,
they
would
be
able
to
have
between
five
and
ten
percent
open
space.
B
We
we're
in
the
home
stretch.
I
just
wanted
to
kind
of
highlight
again
the
the
great
work
by
the
open
space
task
force
again,
having
eight
boards
and
commissions
with
different
viewpoints.
I
think
has
made
the
overall
product
and
and
the
code
that
we're
suggesting
stronger.
B
I
think
that
we're
doing
a
better
job
at
balancing
housing,
with
our
open
space
and
climate-related
goals,
that
we
have
some
of
the
things
I'll
just
highlight
on
this
slide
as
a
result
of
the
open
space
task
force
that
we're
expanding
the
number
of
zoning
districts
where
open
space
would
be
required.
So
under
our
proposal,
we're
actually
would
now
require
open
space
to
be
in
industrial
zoning
districts
where
that
is
not
allowed.
Today,
in
the
river
arts
district,
the
we
have
a
district
called
the
rad
osp,
it's
an
open
space
district.
B
Is
we're
now
saying
that
a
property
line
buffer,
open
spaces
would
now
require
pedestrian
enhancements
and
what
that
means
is
we're
allowing
a
property
line
buffer.
So
that's
you
know
between
your
property
line
and
maybe
the
building
and
we're
saying
that
that
could
count
toward
your
open
space,
but
only
if
that
area
has
pedestrian
access,
so
we're
making
it
more
accessible
for
for
use
and
it
has
a
grade
less
than
15
within
that
buffer.
B
Finally,
again
we
you've
seen
this
summary
before
I
won't
go
through
this
in
detail
just
to.
We
can
leave
this
up
for
for
conversation
if
you'd
like
to
show
the
current
versus
the
proposed
standards
and
then
finally,
next
steps
staff
does
plan
going
back
to
the
planning
and
economic
development
committee.
That
could
happen
in
may
or
june
or
even
earlier,
depending
upon
some
of
the
feedback
that
we
get
from
you
all
tonight.
A
Hey
todd
on
the
you
know,
I'm
reading
we're
getting
some
emails
about
the
open
space
requirements
and
they're
all
you
know,
kind
of
robo
emails
are
all
the
same,
except
we
got
an
interesting
email
from
someone
who
who's
stud
who's.
I
think
studying
at
nc
state
college
of
design,
and
one
of
the
comments
she
makes
is:
why
would
you
consider
reducing
the
amount
of
open
space
required
if
a
developer
voluntarily
elects
to
meet
stormwater
requirements?
If
the
stormwater
measures
are
required,
then
any
development
must
meet
those
requirements.
A
What
that
tells
me
is
we're.
We've
got
a
little.
We
got
a
little
confusion
in
our
messaging
around
stormwater,
I
think
vadilla.
We
talked
a
little
bit
about
that
earlier
in
your
presentation
that,
yes,
there
are
stormwater
requirements
and
those
still
have
to
be
met.
What
you're,
trying
to
say
is
we're
preempted
by
the
state
in
some
of
these
certain
circumstances,
around
stormwater
requirements,
so
we
have
to
we.
Our
only
tool
is
to
incentivize
in
those
situations.
A
Maybe
if
we
can
just
clarify
some
of
that
because
of
someone
who's
not
getting
their
degree
is
confused
by
what
you
know.
It
looks
like
we're
going
from
a
requirement
to
optional
and
slash
incentive
that
I
I
get
we
need
to
try.
I
mean
we're
always
dealing
with
trying
to
clear
up
some
confusion,
but
we.
B
Could
definitely
clarify
messaging
on
you
know
on
our
website
and
in
you
know,
further
presentations
that
we
give,
and
you
know
one
thing
that
to
keep
in
mind
the
stormwater
management,
enhancing
the
the
infrastructure.
For
that
there's.
Two
there's
two
ways
of
looking
at
that
and
nancy
is
definitely
expert
on
this,
but
it's
it's
water,
quality
and
and
quantity,
so
the
quantity
is
the
speed
of
runoff
and
the
site
example
we
gave
earlier
is
a
site
on
patent
avenue.
B
D
We're
preempted
from
requiring
it
we
we
had
to
include
language
that
would
also
allow
projects
that
are
required
to
provide
stormwater
that
same
reduction
from
from
50
open
space.
So
what
we
said
is
a
project
vol
you
can.
D
You
can
reduce
your
stormwater
if
a
project
voluntarily
elects
to
meet
the
stormwater
requirements
because
they're
not
required
to
or
is
or
if
they
are
required
to
meet
the
same
requirements
pursuant
to
the
code,
so
this
can
be
spun
in
a
way
that
makes
it
sound
like
we're
benefiting
projects
that
are
required
to
meet
stormwater
to
reduce
their
open
space,
and
that's
not
what
is
happening.
It's
it's.
It's
sort
of
requirement
to
be
make
it
a
a
level
playing
field
for
all
similar
sized
projects.
B
B
We
did
start
this
at
a
time
when
the
tree
preservation,
canopy
ordinance
tree
canopy,
preservation,
ordinance
was
being
worked
on,
we
slowed
it
down
and
one
of
the
reasons
we
wanted
to
slow
this
project
down
was
to
ensure
that
the
new
tree
canopy
standards
were
were
in
effect,
and
we've
had
a
lot
of
conversations
with
folks
about
how
this
might
impact
that
other
ordinance,
and
we
don't
believe
this
would
have
any
impact.
You
know
this.
This
does
not
override
the
open
space
proposal
does
not
override
the
tree.
B
Canopy
preservation
ordinance
that
those
tree
canopy
enhancing
the
amount
of
tree
canopy
would
still
would
still
occur
that
this
these
changes
would
not
impact
that
ordinance
at
all.
D
And
if
I
can
add
sorry,
one
thing
that
I
actually
forgot
to
mention
that
I
was
really
excited
to
talk
about
that
is
important.
Moving
forward,
this
last
bullet
here
in
the
the
key
decisions
that
the
open
space
task
force
made.
One
of
them
was
that
in
in
lieu
of
requiring
open
space
downtown,
there
was
a
struggle
in
the
in
the
commission
in
in
this
task
force,
it
was
decided
that,
instead
of
requiring
open
space
downtown,
we
could
better
improve
our
tree
planning
standards,
city-wide,
and
so
that's
something
that
may
be
coming
at
the
same.
D
D
We
could
do
that
and
that
some
have
said
some
have
mentioned
that
same
point.
I
it
could
be.
A
lot
of
information
is
my
own.
My
one
counter
thought,
but
we
could
be
prepared
to
do
that.
If,
if
that's
our
direction.
A
F
A
Any
other
questions
or
comments
before
we
conclude
today's
work
session.
A
Okay,
so
today,
just
like
with
any
work
session,
we
don't
take
public
comment,
but
we
will
have
plenty
of
opportunities
for
that
additional
opportunities,
considering
this
has
been
worked
on
for
quite
some
time
when
it
goes
to
ped
pnz
and
to
eventually
to
council.
So
with
that,
we
are
adjourned
from
the
work
session.