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B
B
B
And
entering
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8187
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of
us
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there
today
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appreciate
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B
Roll
call
I'll
now
go
through
and
introduce
the
committee
members
and
staff
who
are
participating
virtually
please
make
sure
to
keep
your
microphone
muted
if
you
are
not
speaking,
okay,
so
council
and
staff,
as
I
call
your
name,
please
say
a
quick
hello,
councilwoman
sandra
kilgore,
hello,
councilwoman
sage,
turner
good
afternoon,
I
believe
assistant
city
manager,
kathy
ball
will
join
us
later.
F
B
B
B
The
only
item
on
our
agenda
today
is
the
revisions
to
the
homestay
ordinance.
We'll
have
the
revisions
to
the
zoning
text.
Amendment
regarding
homestays,
shannon
tuck,
will
start
us
off
on
this
item
and
at
this
and
then
at
the
end
after
council
has
asked
questions
and
just
ask
questions:
we're
going
to
open
it
up
to
public
comment
on
this
item.
So
with
that,
I'm
going
to
ask
shannon
to
kick
us
off.
H
H
So
if
you
need
me
to
pause-
and
you
have
a
clarifying
question
or
something
that
you
need
to
ask
you,
please
audibly
speak
up
so
that
I
can
pause.
Because
again
I
can't
see
your
faces
or
see
any
hands
raised.
H
So
we're
going
to
talk
this
afternoon
about
homestays
staff
actually
spoke
before
the
ped
back
in
march,
and
at
that
time
we
presented
on
a
proposed
text
amendment.
H
The
text
amendment
to
the
unified
development
ordinance
specifically
was
to
update
a
number
of
the
rules
and
regulations
for
home
stays,
and
we
had
a
number
of
revisions
most,
I
would
say
the
majority
of
which
were
minor
in
nature
and
weren't
substantive,
but
we
had
three.
What
I
would
say
are
significant
changes.
H
The
first
of
those
three
was
a
prohibition
on
the
use
of
detached
accessory
structures
as
homestays,
and
the
ped
back
in
march
gave
us
clear
direction
on
that.
So
we're
setting
aside
that
particular
point
for
today's
discussion
and
we're
going
to
focus
primarily
on
the
two
items
for
which
there
was
a
fair
amount
of
discussion,
but
not
clear
direction
offered
back
in
march.
H
So
we're
back
here
today
with
a
little
bit
more
analysis
for
the
peds
consideration
in
an
effort
to
try
to
get
more
specific
and
clear
feedback
and
direction
as
to
which
way
we
should
go
with
these
two
remaining
items.
So
those
two
items
include
kitchens
and
whether
we
should
allow
kitchens
and
homestays
and
whether
or
not
we
should
include
property
owners
who
do
not
reside
on
the
property
that
has
a
homestay
as
an
applicant,
a
co-applicant
or
co-host
for
a
homestay,
and
I'm
going
to
talk
about
these
both
a
little
bit
more
specifically.
H
But
before
I
do
that
for
those
folks
who
might
be
joining
us
new
this
afternoon.
I
wanted
to
just
pause
briefly
to
talk
about
the
background
for
homestays,
so
homestay
standards
have
been
in
place,
at
least
since
2006,
but
the
vision
of
a
homestay
has
kind
of
evolved.
So
back
in
2006,
we
really
envisioned
them
to
be
more
like
mini
bed
and
breakfasts
and
in
fact
the
definition
included
the
serving
of
a
meal
as
an
example.
So.
A
Shannon
do
you
know
you're,
not
sharing
the
presentation?
Oh,
I
don't.
H
Yes,
okay,
so
just
to
back
up
what
we're
considering
today,
those
two
items,
whether
or
not
to
allow
kitchens
and
home
stays
and
whether
or
not
property
owners
who
don't
reside
on
the
property
to
be
co-applicants.
H
And
then
this
was
the
the
slide
that
I
was
on
when
jenna.
Let
me
know
that
the
presentation
wasn't
being
shared,
so
this
is
the
the
background
slide.
So
I
was
talking
about
how
the
vision
for
homestays
has
evolved
over
the
years.
They
were
originally
visioned
to
be
more
like
mini
bed
and
breakfasts,
and
then
with
the
popularity
and
interest
in
renting
spaces
as
home
stays
grew
the
city
relaxed
the
rules
and
requirements
for
homestays
significantly
as
interest
and
availability
of
those
online
platforms
expanded.
H
H
Those
standards
for
home
stays
were
further
refined
in
2018
as
part
of
a
broader
ordinance
that
was
related
to
multiple
forms
of
lodging,
and
it
was
at
this
time
in
2018
that
we
added
a
definition
for
kitchen.
I'm
going
to
talk
about
kitchen
more
specifically
here
in
a
moment
so
again
today,
we're
seeking
direction
on
some
additional
changes
to
address
enforcement
concerns
and
also
some
community
concerns
and
questions
regarding
kitchens.
H
So
before
I
get
into
the
two
changes,
I
would
like
to
take
a
moment
just
to
sort
of
talk
about
the
difference
between
a
dwelling
unit
and
a
homestay,
because
to
understand
our
homestay
regulations
and
the
relationship
between
dwelling
units
and
home
states.
It's
important
to
kind
of
really
understand
this
distinction.
Now.
H
The
definitions
that
I
have
on
the
screen
are
not
the
udo
definitions
and
I
believe
that
it's
those
definitions
that
may
be
contributing
to
some
of
the
confusion,
because
they're
they're,
very
technical
in
nature
and
while
they're
true
and
accurate,
I
think
they're
a
little
bit
hard
for
people
who
are
not
accustomed
to
land
use
law
to
to
kind
of
understand.
So
I've
tried
to
kind
of
put
them
in
simpler
terms
here.
H
So
a
dwelling
unit
really
is
just
a
series
of
rooms
that
are
designed
for
independent
long-term
living
and
what
we
mean
by
independent,
long-term
living
is
we're
talking
about
housing,
it's
just
housing
and
that
housing
would
include
separate,
bathroom
bedroom
and
a
kitchen.
Those
are
the
three
elements
that
are
required
for
to
support
long-term
living.
H
Now
this
is
different
than
a
homestay.
A
homestay
is
not
a
building,
it
is
not
a
dwelling
unit,
it
is
not
even
rooms
within
a
dwelling
unit.
It's
actually
a
use.
It's
a
land
use,
it's
an
activity
that
occurs
within
a
dwelling
unit
and
that
activity
can
occupy
up
to
two
guest
rooms
that
are
used
to
provide
short-term
or
overnight,
lodging
accommodations
for
compensation.
H
H
So,
first
and
foremost,
a
dwelling
unit
is
for
housing,
so
somebody
must
live
there
on
a
permanent
and
full-time
basis,
and
secondarily
it
can
be
used
as
a
homestay
or
some
part
of
it
can
be,
can
can
support
a
homestay
activity
or
homestay
use.
H
H
H
So
going
back
to
the
first
item
to
allow
a
sink
and
a
refrigerator,
but
no
stove
again.
That
was
that
pre-2018
definition
and
before
20
excuse
me
it
wasn't
a
definition
interpretation
before
2018
we
didn't
have
a
definition
and
we
relied
on
just
sort
of
a
common
webster's
dictionary
kind
of
definition,
which
just
says
a
kitchen
is
a
room:
that's
used
for
the
preparation
and
cooking
of
food.
So
if
you
can't
cook
the
food,
it's
not
a
kitchen!
So
that's
where
the
practice
of
removing
a
stove
came
from.
H
The
benefits
of
this
option
is
that
it
allows
some
amenities
for
lodgers,
so
you've
got
a
sink.
You've
got
a
refrigerator,
maybe
you
have
some
other
plug-in
appliances
and
it's
consistent
with
that
former
interpretation
that
pre-2018
interpretation.
So
there
is
already
some
community
understanding
and
acceptance
of
this
option.
Now.
The
negatives
to
this
particular
option
is
that
it
is
somewhat
difficult
to
enforce.
H
H
You
can
remove
the
stove
and
say:
oh
you
can't
cook,
but
people
would
just
replace
the
stove
with
a
microwave,
a
hot
plate
and
other
sort
of
plug-in.
Countertop
appliances
such
as
you
know
those
little
convection,
toaster
ovens,
so
you
know
you're,
not
cooking,
a
maybe
a
large
sort
of
thanksgiving
meal,
but
there
are
certain
you
know:
appliances
available
to
to
warm
up
food.
H
H
The
benefits
to
this
option
is
that
it
may
slow
or
deter
the
conversion
of
existing
living
spaces
that
are
currently
being
used
or
could
be
used
for
housing,
and
that
is
actually
one
of
the
reasons
we
moved
from
that
pre-2018
interpretation
to
adopting
a
definition
of
kitchen.
That
said,
you
shouldn't
have
any
of
these
spaces,
or
if
that
you
did,
it
was
a
kitchen
and
was
therefore
problematic
is
because
we
saw
spaces
that
had
been
used
for
long-term
housing
being
converted
for
home
stays
so
for
short-term
use,
as
opposed
to
long-term.
H
So
this
was
something
of
a
concern,
so
this
is
one
of
the
reasons
we
moved
in
this
direction.
With
that
definition,
another
pro
is
that
it's
consistent
with
the
limits
on
other
forms
of
lodging
such
as
a
standard
hotel
room.
H
It's
certainly
easier
to
enforce
it's
much
easier
to
just
say
you
can't
have
any
of
these
things
than
to
say.
Well,
you
can
have
these
two
things,
but
not
that
one-
and
you
know
just
gets
a
little
murky
and
it
also
helps
to
clarify
the
distinction
between
a
homestay
and
a
dwelling
unit.
So
this
is
the
most
clear
option
where
you
know
you
by
not
having
any
of
these
major
features
or
amenities,
it's
clear
that
it's
not
a
kitchen
and
therefore
it's
not
a
dwelling
unit.
H
H
That
spaces
that
had
been
used
as
home
stays
could
easily
then
become
long-term
housing
when
the
when
the
demand
for
short-term
renting
kind
of
was
less
and
then
and
then
go
back
to
being
home
stays
again
in
the
future,
when
there
was
less
demand,
it
also
limits
the
amenities
and
attractiveness
of
the
homestay.
So
it's
perhaps
not
as
competitive
in
the
larger
lodging
marketplace.
G
Shannon,
may
I
ask
you
a
question
this
is
sage
sure,
so
when
you
say
that
the
flexibility
between
short
and
long-term
rental,
we
talked
about
this
a
little
bit
last
time.
In
that
sure,
if
the
homestay
were
a
separate
unit
and
didn't
have
a
kitchen,
it
wouldn't
transition
a
long-term
rental.
But
the
simple
fact
that
the
remainder
of
the
house
by
rule
should
have
a
major
kitchen
means
that
the
home
stay
without
a
kitchen
could
still
be
a
long-term
rental
to
a
roommate
or
a
housemate
immediately
it
doesn't
like.
G
B
Right,
I
mean,
I
think
you
know
it's
sort
of
the
different.
I
mean
it
just
adds
independence
right
I
mean
you
know.
The
situation
sage
is
referring
to,
is
you
know,
sort
of
more
perceived
as
a
roommate
situation
right
as
opposed
to
a
little
more
independent,
so.
H
Okay,
so
I'll
move
on
to
the
third
option
now,
which
is
to
allow
a
full
kitchen.
So
while
the
first
option
is
the
most
difficult
to
enforce,
the
second
option
is
a
little
bit
easier
to
enforce
this
third
option.
Actually,
no
enforcement
really
is
needed.
It's
it's
the
easiest
one,
it's
just
it's
allowed
and
we
don't
have
to
worry
about
it.
It
also
allows
the
maximum
flexibility
to
be
moved
between
long
and
short-term
renting,
and
it
provides
the
greatest
amenity
to
guests,
so
it
would
make
those
home
stays
in
asheville,
more
attractive
and
competitive.
H
The
negatives
is
that
it
definitely
blurs
the
distinction,
be
between
a
home
stand
dwelling
unit
and
in
fact,
if
you
are
a
separate
space
that
has
a
kitchen
and
a
bathroom
and
a
sleeping
room,
you
are
a
dwelling
unit.
It
may
not
be
a
dwelling
unit
under
the
building
code,
but
it
would
have
all
of
the
features
necessary
to
support
long-term
living
or
housing.
H
H
H
If
we
allow
a
full
kitchen
in
that
suite
and
that
homestay
suite
it
makes
it
easier
for
the
resident,
the
permanent
resident
of
the
property
to
occupy
that
subordinate
homestay
space
and
or
what
was
the
homestay
space
and
then
rent
the
principal
dwelling
to
the
guests,
so
it
kind
of
flips
the
model
now.
I
should
also
clarify
this
happens
today.
H
So,
even
though
we
don't
allow
homestays
to
have
kitchens,
we
have
instances
where
a
a
tenant
or
a
resident
manager
of
that
home
stay
instead
of
living
in
the
main
house
and
renting
the
subordinate
space
they
actually
occupy
the
subordinate
space
and
rent
the
main
house.
So
that
happens
today.
Now
I
wouldn't
say
it's
widespread,
but
it's
not
uncommon.
H
H
Not
under
today's
rules
now
we
could
maybe
consider
you
know
something
that
said
well,
I'm
not
sure
there
may
be
a
standard
that
we
could
consider
that
would
kind
of
help
control
for
that,
but
we
haven't
ever
gotten
there.
G
May
I
ask
a
clarifying
question.
This
is
sage
sure,
because
I
don't
I'm
not
sure
I
understand,
because
we
don't
allow
the
home
stays
in
separate
dwellings.
So
maybe
it's
the
language
of
the
primary
dwelling
and
the
secondary
dwelling.
That
is
throwing
me
when
you
say
this,
because
we
don't
really
have
a
there's,
not
a
secondary
dwelling,
that
the
resident
is
moving
out
of
right.
It's
still,
all
just
one
happens:
we're
just
rooms
in
a
house.
It
is
it's
one
house.
H
So,
let's
go
back
to
that
model,
so
you've
got
your
main
principal
dwelling,
sort
of
the
you
know
say
it's
a
two-story
house
and
you've
got
three
bedrooms.
Then
you've
got
that
lower
level
daylighted
basement
suite,
so
today's
model
would
encourage
the
the
resident,
the
permanent
resident
of
the
property
to
occupy
the
main
house
and
and
homes
stay
out
that
lower
suite,
and
that's
the
suite
that
doesn't
have
the
kitchen.
But
we
do
have
instances
where
the
the
resident
of
the
property
doesn't
occupy
the
main
house.
H
H
I
H
Yeah
yeah,
it
would
look
and
feel
more
like
a
short-term
vacation
rental,
because
the
main
house
would
be
occupied
now.
There's
another
standard
that
there's
another
issue
with
that
in
that
there's
nothing
to
prevent
a
four-bedroom
house
from
being
used
as
a
homestay,
even
though
we
only
allow
two
bedrooms
to
be
rented
on
a
short-term
basis.
H
So
when
you,
when
you
kind
of
flip
that
model-
and
you
have
that
two-bedroom
three-bedroom
house,
whatever
being
rented,
you
know,
we
can
make
sure
that
the
listing
limits
the
number
of
bedrooms
being
rented
to
no
more
than
two.
But
you
can't
really
effectively
control
who's
sleeping
in
those
bedrooms.
You
know
so
they're.
You
know
it's
just
a
it's
just
a
tricky
thing
to
to
to
monitor
and
and
manage,
and
then
the
last
con
associated
with
this
option
is
that
it
could
increase
the
conversion
of
long-term
living
spaces
into
homestays.
H
So
there
are
those
individuals
who
have
these
sort
of
subordinate
living
spaces
that
have
the
kitchen
and
they
don't
rent
short-term
because
they
have
the
kitchen
and
they
don't
want
to
take
out
the
sink,
and
they
don't
want
to
take
out
the
stove
and
they
just
don't
want
to
mess
with
it.
So
they're,
like
you,
know,
we'll
just
keep
renting
it
long
term.
Well,
if
we
now
open
up
that
option,
it
could
increase
the
number
of
conversions
and
potentially
displace
people.
H
So
those
are
the
options
associated
with
the
the
kitchens
with
homestays
and
I'm
going
to
move
on
to
the
second
amendment.
If
there
aren't
any
more
clarifying
questions
and
then
we
can
certainly
come
back
and
and
discuss
these,
these
different
aspects
in
more
detail,
so
the
second
change
that
we
were
considering
was
whether
or
not
we
should
require
a
property
owner
who
doesn't
live
on
the
property.
H
So
this
is
somebody
who
has
a
house
somewhere
else,
but
they
have
this
extra
property
and
they
don't
live
there
and
they
have
a
tenant
who
manages
and
hosts
a
homestay,
so
we're
considering
allowing
or
requiring
rather
that
property
owner
to
be
a
co-host
or
a
co-applicant
on
that
homestay
application,
and
this
is
a
little
bit
more
straightforward.
I
think
we
have
basically
two
options.
One
is
to
kind
of
keep
the
status
quo
where
the
resident
or
that
tenant
is
the
only
host
and
the
only
one
responsible
for
managing
and
running
that
homestay.
H
It's
more
difficult
to
enforce
and
owners
are
finding
ways
to
work
around
the
restriction
and
they
end
up,
participating
and
managing
or
running
the
homestay,
or
they
benefit
financially
in
some
other
way.
Despite
the
prohibition-
and
it
does
not
prevent
property
investors
from
buying
multiple
properties
and
installing
a
resident
manager
in
each
so
imagine,
an
out-of-town
investor
buys
six
homes
in
asheville
and
they
work
out
with
six
different
individuals
to
be
the
tenant
or
resident
manager
of
that
homestay.
H
And
you
know
they
either
do
that
workaround
and
find
ways
to
to
manage
the
home
stays
themselves
and
benefit,
or
one
of
the
more
common
moves
or
ways
that
a
property
owner
could
potentially
benefit.
Is
that
if
a
tenant
comes
home
and
says
I
want
to
do
a
homestay,
will
you
support
me?
They
say
yes,
but
I'm
going
to
charge
you
more
rent.
So
in
that
way,
they're
they're
totally
following
the
ordinance
because
they're
not
managing
that
homestay
or
they're
not
participating
in
that
the
tenant
is
doing
that,
but
they're
still
benefiting
financially.
H
So
that's
that's!
Basically
how
we
do
it
today
or
that's
the
option.
That's
the
status
quo
option.
The
other
option
is
to
require
property
owners
who
are
not
living
on
the
property
to
be
that
co-host
or
that
co-applicant
along
with
the
tenant.
So
both
the
tenant
and
the
property
owner
would
be
applicants
and
hosts.
H
What
this
does
is
it
allows
owners
and
tenants
to
work
out
whatever
mutually
beneficial
arrangement
works
for
them
and
it
kind
of
shares
the
responsibility
so
not
all
of
the
responsibilities
on
the
tenant.
It
allows
the
tracking
that's
necessary
to
limit
investors
to
one
homestay
permit,
despite
the
number
of
properties
they
may
own.
H
So
what
we
are
imagining
is
that,
on
the
application,
we
would
ask
you
know
for
all
of
the
owners
to
be
identified
on
the
application
and
if
it's
an
llc
or
a
trust
or
corporation,
we
would
ask
for
them
to
list
who
has
an
ownership
interest
in
that
say,
llc,
and
then
this
also
would
reduce
the
amount
of
enforcement
needed
right
now
we're
having
to
kind
of
figure
out.
You
know
it's
sometimes
you
know
mary
smith
is
the
permit
holder
or
the
tenant
resident
manager.
H
But
then,
when
you
look
at
all
of
the
review
comments,
they
talk
about
speaking
with
jane,
you
know:
white
who's,
the
property
owner,
and
we
realize
that
jane
is
sort
of
in
the
mix
there
and
we
have
to
kind
of
get
an
enforcement.
So
this
would
eliminate
the
need
for
that
now.
The
only
con
that
we
potentially
identified
is
that
you
know
there
could
be
instances
we
suppose
where
it
might
be
difficult
to
identify
that
ownership.
H
You
know
people
may
not
be
forthright
with
the
information
and
then
we
go
to
check
it
or
verify
it
against
the
secretary
of
state
or
other
public
records,
and-
and
you
know
there
may
be
ways
to
kind
of
hide
it,
and
you
know
we're
not
really
sure,
but
we
feel
fairly
confident
that
the
majority
of
permit
holders
and
applicants
are
honest
on
their
applications
and
you
know,
won't
be
evasive
in
this
way.
So
we
feel
fairly
good
about
that
and
we
do
feel
like
we're
within
our
legal
right
to
do
so.
H
We
already
limit
home
stay
permits
to
one
per
property
and
one
per
owner
or
excuse
me
per
person.
It's
just
that
the
property
owner
isn't
that
person
so
by
making
them
a
an
applicant
we're
able
to
track
it.
H
So
that's
kind
of
the
thinking
behind
it
and
we're
not
we're
not
getting
in
we're,
not
we're
not
interfering
with
ownership
or
regulating
ownership,
because
they
can
continue
to
own
as
many
properties
as
they
like
we're
only
regulating
how
many
homestay
permits
they're
allowed
to
have,
and
so,
if,
after
today,
we
hope
to
get
the
feedback
and
direction
that
we
need
on
these
two
options.
And
then
we
can
incorporate
that
feedback
into
the
proposed
zoning
text,
amendment
that
can
then
move
on
to
the
full
council
for
their
consideration.
H
I
Well,
I
don't
really
have
any
questions.
I
was
just
going
to
comment
on
on
the
option
that
she
was
just
speaking
of
about
the
about
the
investor
type.
Yes,
this
one
here
and-
and
basically
I
am
very
much
in
favor-
of
requiring
the
property
owners
not
living
on
the
property,
be
a
co-host.
I
I
think
this
will
be
a
great
way
to
keep
track
of
it
and
also,
and
also
what
I
really
feel
that
even
if
we
have
problems,
I
think
that
if
we
start
putting
in
place
stricter
penalties
for
people
that
basically
violate
these
rules
and
regulations,
then
that
would
put
a
stop
to
a
lot
of
it
and-
and
but
I
do
like
that
option
for
that
particular
item.
I
B
G
I'm
curious
shannon.
I
mean
I
have
some
broader
questions,
but
about
the
presentation
itself.
Do
we
have
four
and
five
bedroom
houses
that
are
home,
stays
permanent
or
permitted,
but
then
renting
five
bedrooms?
Is
that
enough?
Like
an
enforcement
issue
you
run
into,
I
I
mean
we've
had
that.
H
It's
rare
yeah.
I
think
it's
usually
a
not
understanding
the
rules
when
that
happens,
and
then
we
quickly
jump
on
it.
They
quickly
change
their
listing,
but
you
know
sometimes
you
have
these
listings.
That
will
be
two
bedrooms.
Can
sleep
12.?
G
Good
friends,
yeah,
okay
and
then
so
I
guess
the
last
slide
that
you
were
just
talking
about
is
very
interesting.
I
appreciate
it
and
great
job
and
all
of
the
presentation
I
will
say
I
know
you
all-
have
worked
very
hard
on
this
for
a
very
long
time.
So,
though,
when
I
see
that
property
managers
are
managing
several
of
these
in
the
city,
does
that
mean
that
there
is
some
unpermitted
activity
happening?
H
So
I
guess
I'm
not
really
sure
there.
There
are
a
few
different
scenarios
that
can
happen
there.
When
you
have
an
actual
property
manager.
There
are
some
managers
who
manage
a
lot
of
monthly
rentals.
There
are
some
who
do
the
downtown
short-term
vacation,
rentals
that
were
grandfathered,
and
then
there
are
others
who.
H
I
think
this
is
the
probably
what
you're
imagining
more
referring
to
more,
where
they
try
to
assist
folks
like
with
the
bookings
or
communication
and
that
they're
not
supposed
to
be
doing
that
so
whoever
the
resident,
the
full-time
permanent
resident
of
the
property
is,
that
is
the
person
who's
supposed
to
be
responsible
for
managing
and
operating
that
homestay.
Now
how
you
interpret
manage
and
operate
a
homestay
can
kind
of
vary
and
getting
some
professional
assistance
in
some
cases
you
know
would
could
be
acceptable.
G
Similar
akin
to
you
know
not
every
homestay
user
cleans
it
themselves,
so
there
are
certainly
some
services
being
outsourced
and
stuff
the
management
through
me.
So
in
this
new,
the
new
like
it's
not
new,
but
what
you
just
presented
might
actually
prevent
some
of
those
property
managers
from
doing
that
right.
H
Right
but
but
the
way
we
were
envisioning
is
that
so
the
most
common
scenario
is
that
you
have
a
tenant
and
the
property
owner
is
the
one
who's
kind
of
helping
these
property
managers
a
little
bit
different.
If,
if
that's
something
we
want
to
allow,
then
I
think
we
have
to
think
about
that
a
little
bit
more,
because
what
we
were
envisioning
was
requiring
the
owners
to
be
listed
as
applicants
along
with
the
tenant
and
not
having
a
property
manager.
G
I
I
would
think
also
what
you
were
just
saying
says
that
did
bring
up
a
point
because,
basically,
with
the
property
manager
managers,
they
have
to
be
licensed
in
order
to
handle
these
properties
for
these
owners.
So
I
think
that's
something
we
you
know.
We
definitely
need
to
look
in
to
because
that
really
wouldn't
be
a
homestay.
If
it's,
you
know
managed
by
a
real
estate
management
company,
if
it
does
it,
it's
actually.
G
And
sandra
councilman
kilgore,
you
are
you're
an
agent,
so
you
understand
yeah,
so
you
have
to
be
licensed
to
man
to
manage
property
for
others
for
a
fee.
So
thank
you
didn't
mean
to
derail
us.
Okay,.
B
B
H
Yeah,
you
know,
I,
I
think
it
kind
of
depends
on
your
perspective,
whether
you
think
that
that's
a
concern
or
not.
H
We
do
get
complaints
where
people
think
it's
being
rented
like
it's
a
whole
house,
short-term
vacation
rental
and
we
go
to
investigate
and
it
kind
of
like
on
the
surface
looks
like
that,
because
the
guests
are
in
that
you
know
kind
of
that
main
dwelling
space,
but
when
we
really
look
and
investigate,
we
realize
oh,
the
the
the
homestay
operator
or
that
resident
is
actually
living
in
that
kind
of
subordinate
space
and
it.
H
So
it
kind
of
looks
like
to
the
neighbors
that
it's
a
whole
house,
short-term
vacation
rental,
but
really
there
is
somebody
living
there.
So
it
is
housing,
it's
still
being
used
as
housing,
so
it
just
in
some
cases.
They're,
like
you
know,
this
might
be
more
than
the
two
bedrooms
that
a
homestay
would
normally
support
or
yeah
that
a
homestay
would
normally
be
allowed.
So
it
might
be
a
three
bedroom
house,
a
four
bedroom
house
of
which
only
two
bedrooms
are
being
used,
which
you
know
I
I
think
some
people
would
feel
like.
H
B
Is
well
I
mean
you
know,
one
of
my
big
concerns
around
this
whole
issue
is,
you
know
there
needs
to
be
somebody
on
site.
You
know
close
by
to
for
lack
of
a
better
term,
protect
the
neighborhood
from
inappropriate
behavior
of
short-term
rental
guests,
and
so
I
don't
know
I
mean
there's
part
of
me:
that's
a
little
concerned
about
this
idea
of
you
know
the
bigger
the
bigger
space
gets
rented
out,
but
I'm
I'm
not
sure.
I
know
why
it
kind
of
bugs
me
so,
but
maybe
maybe
some
of
our
public
comment.
G
H
G
Would
be
there
right,
they're,
just
yeah,
okay,
I'm
just
saying
it's
also
a
measure
of.
Do
we
have
a
neighborhood
or
do
we
have
a
visiting
street
you
know,
so
I
think
I'm
just
I
agree
with
you
gwen
I
just
wanna,
so
I
will
have
some
questions
at
the
end.
I'm
happy
to
go
to
public
comment
and
then
ask
them.
I
just
don't
know
if
it's
better
for
me
to
ask
them
now
or
after
public
comment
I'll
look
to
youtube.
Why
don't.
B
You
go
ahead
and
ask
councilwood
well
like.
B
I
hope
that,
based
on
your
comments
that
we
are
we're
indicating
that
we
are
still
open-minded
relative
to
getting
input
from
our
neighbors
okay,
so
I
just
would.
G
Ask
that
I
appreciate
that
I
guess
so
in
light
of
what
we
were
just
saying,
I'm
wondering
like
in
the
history
of
this
because
it
sounds
like
it's
been
going
on
for
several
years.
Have
we
done
any
other
community
input?
Are
we
just?
Are
we
in
a
vacuum
of
just
the
home
stairs
or
did
neighborhoods
weigh
in
on
this,
or
because
this
is
kind
of
an
expansion
of
something
in
neighborhoods?
But
I
don't
know
if
we
ever
well.
H
Yeah,
this
is
something
that's
been
going
on
for
quite
some
time.
You
may
recall
that,
back
in
march
my
presentation
I
mentioned
that
we
had
actually
been
before
the
ped
back
in
2019,
and
this
was
after
the
2018
amendment
that
established
that
no
kitchens
could
be
allowed
in
a
homestay
which
included
no
sinks.
H
The
the
push
the
initial
pushback
was,
you
know
we
need
to
at
least
have
sinks,
and
so
there
was
a
push
to
kind
of
change,
that
kitchen
definition
to
be
more
reflective
of
that
pre-2018
interpretation
and
that
that
was
discussed
and
there
was
direction
from
the
ped
back
in
2019,
but
the
whole
effort
got
kind
of
put
on
hold
for
a
little
while
and
then
the
pandemic
occurred.
So
during
this
hiatus
we've
sat
down
and
kind
of
discussed
this
with
the
homestay
network
representatives
to
kind
of
talk
about
like
well.
H
You
know
what
are
our
goals,
what
are
their
goals-
and
you
know
see
if
there's
some
common
ground
and
that's
kind
of
what
this
particular
amendment
is
sort
of
coming
out
of,
but
it
was
really
comes
out
of
that
2019
pushback
and
at
that
time
there
was
a
lot
of
community
feedback.
So
there
was
a
lot
of
input
from
the
res
from
the
neighborhoods
and
others,
but
it
has
been
relatively
quiet
over
these
last
couple
years.
G
H
Yeah,
like
I
don't
think
it
was
anything
like
that.
I
think
it
was
like
sort
of
you
know.
We
were
on
the
can
agenda
and
we
shared
the
update,
and
you
know
there
may
have
been
some
emails
that
came
after
that
that
were
sent
to
all
the
council
members
and
you.
G
Well,
if
there's
anything
you
can
forward
to
us
between
now
and
council,
that
will
be
helpful
and
maybe
I
can
reach
out
to
can
I'm
just
curious
and
then
you
know
another
question
is:
do
we?
I
don't
know
if
we'll
know
this
do
we
know
if
we
still
currently
have
the
largest
percentage
of
housing
stock
being
used
as
short-term
rentals
in
the
united
states
asheville
city
proper
in
2018
we
were
identified
that
as
that,
the
largest
in
the
united
states,
but
I
don't
know
if
that
is
still
the
case.
H
That's
not
a
statistic
I'm
familiar
with,
so
I
would
defer
to
chris
or
or
ben.
They
may
know
a
little
bit
more
about
that.
F
I
haven't
heard
anything
specifically
about
that
of
late.
You
know,
there's
some
plus,
certainly
probably
some
math.
We
could
do
with
trying
to
figure
out
what
percentage
of
housing
units
and
things
like
that,
but
probably
not
on
the
fly.
G
G
We
need
to
answer
them
right
now,
because
my
other
ones
are
really
around
the
force
enforcement
and
because
we
received
some
emails,
around
enforcement
being
a
real
problem
and
if
there's
anything
we
all
could
agree
on
in
all
those
emails
it
sounded
like
enforcement
might
be
one
of
them
and
that
people
are
really
troubled
by
the
lack
thereof.
I
did
receive
some
emails
that
were
down
enforcement
staff
and
one
specifically
that
said,
we
have
like
115
known
illegal
units
that
we're
not
enforcing.
F
G
B
G
I
would
love
to
have
that
information.
We
I
got
some
emails
with
different
numbers,
I
just
don't
know,
and
then
it
might
be
all
of
my
current.
Oh,
I
did
want
to
speak
to
this
for
the
folks
listening
that
had
some
concerns.
I
did
hear
from
several
people
that
thought
if
the
ordinance
changed
that
they
would
lose
their
home
stay
despite
already
being
permitted,
maybe
someone
could
speak
to
grandfathering
or
what
happens
if
an
ordinance
changes
that
would
be
helpful.
H
So,
regarding
the
change,
it
kind
of
depends
on
what
the
change
is.
If.
H
Right
now,
the
kitchen
is
the
most
restrictive
option,
so
I
I
wouldn't
think
somebody's
that
that
would
would
happen,
but
and
and
then
also
what
we're
talking
about
with
the
change,
with
property,
ownership
being
or
a
property
owner
being
a
co-applicant,
that's
actually
more
permissive
as
well.
So
I
don't
think
these
particular
changes
should
result
in
people
losing
their
homestay
permits.
H
Anybody
who
is
grandfathered
under
that
2018
rule
they
they
continue
to
to
operate
that
way.
Oh
so,
here's!
So
here's
an
example.
I
suppose
where
this
could
happen
is
if
you're,
a
property
investor
and
you've
got
those
six
properties.
H
When
that,
when
those
properties
come
up
for
renewal,
you
would
have
to
list
who
the
owners
are
under
this
under
this
rule,
and
so
then
we
would
start
to
potentially
say.
Okay,
you
got
unit
a
has
a
home
stay
in
it.
So,
the
next
time
your
your
other
tenant
comes
in
with
a
home
stay
permit
and
you're
listed
again
we're
going
to
we're
going
to
block
it.
We're
not
going
to
issue
that
homestead
and.
I
Shannon,
when
you
set
up
for
renewal,
what
is
the
time
limit
on
those
permits.
B
And
I'm
gonna
ask
this
question.
You
you've
answered
it
to
council
members
before,
but
if
we
were
to
allow
this,
you
know
for
the
homestays
to
have
a
kitchen.
As
you
know,
the
third
proposal,
what
staff's
opinion
or
or
that
relative
to
do
you
think
it's
going
to
increase
or
or
do
you
think
it's
going
to
decrease
the
number
of
long-term
rentals
available
in
the
city.
H
So
that
is
a
tough
thing
to
answer.
It's.
It
kind
of
requires
a
crystal
ball.
I
and
I'm
sorry,
I
didn't
mean
to
be
I'm
not
being
sarcastic,
it's
tough,
because
on
the
one
hand,
it
can
encourage
the
conversion
of
existing
spaces
that
are
using
being
used
as
long
term
into
short
term,
but
at
the
same
time
it
could
also
potentially
stimulate
investment
in
those
spaces,
knowing
that
they
have
that
additional
flexibility.
So
what
is
short
term
today
could
be
a
long
term
tomorrow.
H
So
it's
just
it's
really
hard
to
to
know
and
there's
different
philosophies
and
different
thinking
on
this,
and
I'm
just.
I
don't
know
that
I
could
answer
that.
Clearly,.
I
Well,
this
is
what
I
was
wondering
too,
shannon
say,
for
instance,
that
you
put
something
in
place
that
would
only
allow
a
certain
percentage
of
home
stays
in
asheville
or
in
certain
areas.
So
could
you
control
control
it
by
that
using
those
means.
H
Yeah
we
explored
that
early
on
in
the
homestay
regulations
process
and
for
for
different
reasons.
We
didn't
go
forward
with
it.
It
is
a
little
tricky
because
then
it
kind
of
you
have
to
figure
out
who
gets
the
permit
and
who
doesn't,
because
if
it's
rolling,
if
it's
an
annual
permit
and
there's
a
cap,
say
by
census
district,
that
was
one
thing
that
we
looked
at
then
you
know
who
then
it
has
to
be.
I
H
Yeah,
I
think
we're
talking
about
the
same
thing
yeah,
but
so
say
we
have
a
census
district,
that
or
census
tract
that
already
exceeds
whatever
that
cap
is
okay
and
right
now,
everybody's
coming
in
it's
a
yearly
permit,
so
my
permit
may
be
due
in
april,
but
somebody
else's
permit
may
be
due
in
september
yeah.
So
if
we
already
exceed
it,
how
do
we
know
who
to
renew
and
who
not.
I
H
H
So
there's
a
lot
of
fairness,
challenges
related
to
a
cap
and
you're
kind
of
uncovering
a
couple
of
those.
So
it's
it's
a
little
tricky,
but
it
was
something
that
we
explored
and
for
different
reasons.
I
think
council
members
chose
not
to
go
with
it.
G
Maybe
I
think
kathy
might
know
and
mute
her,
maybe
in
norwich
the
coast
there
might
have
been
a
case
about
this
about
a
lottery
or
a
cap.
Brad
may
know-
or
we
may
want
to
know
the
council
meeting.
C
Sure-
and
thank
you
for
that-
councilwoman
turner-
there
was
a
case
actually
in
wilmington
regarding
short-term
rental
permits
and
primarily
this
had
to
deal
with
a
a
system
that
was
essentially
a
register
of
those
properties
that
were
utilizing
the
system
and
they
do
employ
a
lottery
system
to
determine
who
gets
those
particular
permits.
There
was
an
indication
by
the
court
system
that
a
registration
system
would
not
be
legal
which
essentially,
we
are
not
doing
here.
We
do
a
permitting
system,
but
we
don't
keep
a
registry
per
se.
C
We
just
do
a
permitting
system,
so
it's
a
little
bit
of
a
different
set
of
facts
as
to
as
opposed
to
what
we
do
here.
But
that
case,
I
would
note,
is
also
currently
being
appealed
to
the
north
carolina
court
of
appeals.
So
I
don't
believe
that
we
should
draw
too
many
inferences
from
that,
yet,
but
certainly
something
that
my
office
is
keeping
an
eye
on.
J
Thank
you.
I
want
to
go
back
to
gwen's
question
that
councilmember
whistler
the
question
of
whether
or
not
being
able
to
have
a
conversion
of
the
kitchen.
I
want
to
make
sure
I
understand
it.
The
conversion
of
the
kitchen
would
allow
more
homestays.
B
My
my
question
I
mean,
I
think,
if
you're
talking
about
my
last
question,
what
I'm,
what
I'm
asking
is,
do
we
think
that
this
change,
where
you
would
allow
the
homestay
to
have
a
full
kitchen?
Do
we
think
that
that
will
decrease
the
inventory
of
long-term
rental.
J
J
It
definitely
opens
them
up
to
being
able
to
do
that.
I
think
the
interesting
thing
about
what
we're
proposing
is
that,
while
the
kitchen
definition
may
increase
or
decrease
the
long-term
units,
potentially
the
fact
that
we
limit
the
ownership
and
co-host
will
decrease
the
number
of
units,
so
I
think
it's
from
our
perspective.
There
was
the
ability
to
compromise
and
say
if
people
need
to
use
that
space
for
short
term
in
order
to
supplement
their
revenue,
so
they
can
live
there.
J
That
makes
sense,
and
that
would
be
the
reason
we
would
choose
to
do
it,
but
if
they're
doing
it
as
investment
properties,
then
that's,
I
think,
where
we
were
hoping
to
limit
and
decrease
the
number
of
short-term
rentals
that
we
were
looking
at.
So
I
would
say
if
you
separated
the
two
of
these
things
that
we're
talking
about
you.
Could
you
could
say
one
obviously
is
going
to
decrease
it?
The
other
has
the
potential
to
increase
short
term
and
decrease
long
term
depending
on
where
we
are
in
the
market.
B
You
know
this
whole
conversation,
especially,
I
think
it
was
seattle.
You
know
what
they
found
or
allegedly
what
they
found
was.
You
know.
People
really
thought
the
the
short-term
rental
lifestyle
was
going
to
be
for
them
and
then
they,
they
kind
of
you
know,
set
it
up
for
that
and
then
turned
around
three
or
four
years
later
and
said:
no,
you
know
it.
I
don't
really
like
you
know,
I
don't
really
like
all
the
ins
and
outs.
B
I
I
much
prefer
to
have
a
trusted
long-term
rental,
so
I
I
mean
I'm
not
I
I
I
I
guess
I
wouldn't
want
to
come
away
with
this
saying.
We
know
for
sure
that
allowing
a
kitchen
is
going
to
decrease
the
availability
of
long-term
rental.
I
think
that
it,
I
think
we
just
don't
know,
but
I
I
definitely
agree
with
you
kathy
in
the
sense
of
you
know,
decrease
you
know
only
allowing
one
owner
to
to
have,
or
you
know
an
owner
is
limited
to
one
homestay.
B
I
think
that
it
really
addresses
a
big
concern
in
the
with
our
residents
around
this
idea
of
you
know:
people
that
don't
live
here
coming
in
and
buying
buying
up
a
bunch
of
real
estate
and
taking
it
off
the
market
so
yeah
I
mean,
I
definitely
think
that
will
be
responsive
to
the
community.
B
I
Only
thing
I
was
going
to
say
too
about
that
option.
What
we're
not
looking
at
too
is,
if
you
did
allow
the
kitchens,
like
you
said,
pretty
much
you
think
about
you
said:
will
it
actually
decrease
long-term
rentals,
not
necessarily
because
a
lot
of
the
people
now
are
living
extended
families
they
have
their
mother
with
them
their
mother-in-law,
their
children
are
coming
home
from
school
and
if
their
children
can
actually
stay
downstairs
and
have
a
kitchen
away
from
the
mom,
then
that
would
keep
them
from
going
out.
I
You
know
renting
other
units
and
the
same
thing
with
other,
so
it
actually
may
actually
help
the
situation.
So
I
can't
see
that
from
both
parts
but
yeah,
especially
in
light
of
today-
and
I
think
that
people
like
she
said
earlier
with
the
short-term,
rentals
and
the
pandemic
and
the
whole
situation.
A
lot
of
people
are
getting
away
from
that
they're,
really
thinking
more
of
security,
so
it
may
not
be
as
prevalent
as
people
think
because
of
the
conditions
we
find
ourselves
in
now,
right.
G
Kathy,
can
you
still
hear
us
I'm
wondering
if
kathy's
point
about
that
is
because
we
think
we
have
so
many
that
are
owned
by
so
few,
and
I'm
wondering
I
know
we
don't
know
the
state,
I'm
just
wondering
if
in
the
before
against
the
council,
if
there's
a
way
to
understand
that,
because
to
kathy's
point,
if
we
have
10
people
that
run
100
and
this
enforcement
or
rule
changes
that
and
that's
where
this
expected
decrease
would
come.
I
would
love
to
know
kind
of
you
know
how
many
we
have
if
that's
possible
by.
J
J
H
H
So
if
you
look
at
a
property
record,
every
llc
every
owner
will
have
a
mailing
address,
so
we
tried
to
did
a
search
to
see
how
many
duplicate
mailing
addresses
showed
up
just
you
know
it
was
just
kind
of
a
curiosity
and
you
know
we
had
some.
It
wasn't
a
ton
actually.
To
be
honest,
I
expected
more
than
we
found,
but
you
know
there
were
some,
but
but
again
it
wasn't.
We
weren't
really
using
the
best
data.
We
could
have
used
to
do
the
search.
I
And
shannon
and
tell
me
something
now
if
we
impose,
because
one
thing
I
don't
want
to
see,
I
don't
want
to
see
the
people
in
the
community
being
affected
by
bad
actors
out
here.
I
That's
taking
advantage
of
the
situation
and
I'm
really
because
a
lot
of
people
do
need
to
help
right
now
and
they
do
need
you
know
different
things
or
whatever,
but
I
think
if
we
could
actually
adopt
just
stricter
policy
or
penalties
for
these
people,
I
think
that
in
itself
could
really
it's
sort
of
you
know
hurt
a
lot
of
you
know.
I
keep
a
lot
of
people
from
doing
it
and
also
we
can
add
revenue
to
the
city's
budget.
I
To
sort
of
you
know,
regulate
these
issues,
because
I
think
that's
what
it
is:
we're
making
it
too
easy
for
the
bad
actors
and
and
and
and
the
people
other
people
getting
hurt
behind
it.
So
is
it
anything
that
we
could
do
maybe
to
you
know
and
I'm,
and
I
definitely
think
we
definitely
need
to
do
something
about
it,
because
all
the
investors
did
was
flip.
You
know
from
being
able
to
buy
the
houses
and
do
what
they
were
doing.
They
just
flipped
to
another
way
of
doing
it,
of
making
money.
H
H
There
has
been
discussion
in
the
past
about
whether
it
should
be
even
higher,
or
maybe
we
should
escalate
like
your
first
violation
is
500
a
day
until
it's
resolved.
But
if
you
do
it
again,
it's
a
thousand
dollars
a
day,
and
if
you
do
it
a
third
time,
then
you
lose
your
permit
for
three
years.
Something
like
that.
So
so
that
has
been
band-aid
around.
We
haven't
moved
forward
with
it,
not
having
specific
direction
to
do
so,
but
it
has
something
that
is
something
that's
come
up
before
it's
been
discussed.
J
K
I
Okay,
now
kathy,
I
want
to
ask
you
a
question:
how
come
that's
the
way
it's
set
up.
C
I
can
answer
it.
I
can
answer
that
that's
actually
prescribed
in
the
north
carolina
constitution.
Okay,
I
also
want
to
kill
more
so
these
types
of
fines,
regardless
of
what
city
we're
talking
about
when
collected,
have
to
be
distributed
to
the
school
system
in
the
local
region,
where
the
city
or
the
village
or
town
lies.
I
Okay
and
and
the
reason
I
was
asking
that
brad
is
because
I
noticed
that
whenever
we
have
these
discussions,
all
we
talk
about,
as
is
enforcement
and
how
expensive
it
is,
and
how
we
only
have
a
couple
of
people
on
staff
working
on
it
and
I'm
like.
Is
it
any
way
that
they'll
be
able
to
subsidize?
You
know
it
could
actually
make
sense
to
subsidize
what
we're
trying
to
control
that
monies
can
go
toward
that
is
there
I
mean.
I
So
how
do
you
actually
find
the
money
to
afford
to
get
people
to
enforce?
If
that's
the
case.
C
It's
an
excellent
question,
and
this
is
somewhat
difficult.
You
are
permitted
to
keep
a
very
small
percentage
for
sort
of
an
administrative
fee,
but
to
utilize
such
funds
for
additional
personnel
or
enforcement
mechanisms
over
and
beyond.
Just
a
very
basic
administration
is
probably
beyond
what
north
carolina
law
would
allow.
So
we
are,
as
as
you
mentioned,
highlighted
taking
those
funds
directly
out
of
other
buds,
other
city
budgets
generally
our
general
fund
budget,
which
is
always
going
to
be
a
limitation
when
there
is
a
mass
amount
of
potential
or
actual
fraud
going
on.
G
B
Well,
I
just
I
just
want
to
remind
everyone
that
you
know
we're
an
hour
into
the
meeting
and
we
haven't
started
public
comment.
So
do.
G
B
Okay,
I'm
so,
let's
go
ahead
and
open
it
up
to
public
comment:
jenna
you're
you're
in
the
driver's
seat.
Now.
D
D
Hey
there,
this
is
michelle
smith
and
I
am
reading
comments
from
sherry
torres
who
can't
be
here
today
and
we
are
both
have
been
involved
in
the
asheville
homestay
network
at
a
steering
level.
For
several
years,
dear
members
of
the
ped,
the
members
of
the
homestay
network
have
patiently
collaborated
with
the
city.
I
ask
you
to
honor
that
work
and
pass
the
city's
proposal.
D
Enough
is
enough.
The
monday
april
12
ped
meeting
reminds
me
of
a
meeting
that
was
called
two
years
ago
about
the
same
issue,
I'm
completely
dismayed
by
city
council's
actions,
after
their
encouragement
for
the
city
and
the
home
state
community
to
work
together
to
develop
policies
that
support
both
healthy
neighborhoods
and
home
stay
businesses.
D
For
two
years,
the
city
and
leadership
in
the
homestay
network
have
worked
together
to
develop
reasonable
rules
to
keep
neighborhoods
intact,
allow
home
state
businesses
to
earn
income
and
to
find
opportunities
for
affordable
housing
within
home
state
businesses
and
to
create
rules
that
maximize
the
flexibility
for
homestay
hosts
to
shift
back
and
forth
from
long
term
to
short
term
as
their
financial
needs
change
or
the
environment
changes.
E.G
coveted.
D
Finally,
a
plan
that
everyone
felt
was
fair
and
was
created
only
to
have
it
questioned
by
someone
who
perhaps
did
not
know
the
history,
but
it
was
able
to
block
the
whole
process
again.
I
would
have
hoped
that
other
members
of
the
council
would
have
stood
up
for
the
process
they
encouraged.
I
would
have
hoped
that
someone
for
counsel
would
have
shared
that
the
questions,
as
I
said,
which
have
already
been
asked
and
answered
within
the
proposed
plan
by
the
city,
have
already
been
discussed,
and
this
plan
addressed
them
from
the
city's
brain.
D
I
would
like
to
remind
council
members
that
rules
and
regulations
regarding
long-term
apartments
in
one's
home
in
a
short-term
apartment
are
significantly
distinct.
Regulations
around
long-term
rentals
include
such
things
as
installing
firewalls
between
your
residence
and
the
rental
property,
and
include
separate
water,
heat
and
air,
among
other
things.
If
we
want
our
citizens
to
abide
by
the
laws
and
the
rules
of
the
city,
putting
a
stove
in
or
taking
it
out
does
not
make
a
legal,
long-term
rental.
D
Many
people
can't
afford
to
make
those
changes,
not
to
mention
many
people
don't
want
to
host
a
long-term
rental.
I
am
one
of
them
as
for
me,
lucky
I'm
lucky
at
the
moment,
as
I'm
grandfathered
in
so
I've
not
had
to
rip
out
sinks,
throw
out
perfectly
good
refrigerators
or
buy
a
small
one,
etc.
If
the
rules
changed-
and
I
had
to
do
that,
it
would
be
a
significant
expense,
reduce
the
value
of
my
property,
be
a
hardship
if
we
decided
to
move
into
that
space
in
old
age.
L
I'm
also
one
of
those
who
are
grandfathered
and
I've
been
involved
with
the
homestay.
Since
I
purchased
my
home,
I
did
purchase
my
home
back
in
2017
and
part
of
that
purchase
was
doing
my
due
diligence
during
my
real
estate
process
to
make
sure
I
could
have
a
home
state
because
there
was
one
already
in
place.
L
L
I
just
want
some
of
you
to
step
back
and
put
yourself
in
a
position
of
one
of
us,
the
homeowners
that
want
to
have
family
visit
friends
visit
and
when
we're
not
be
able
to
have
our
short-term
rental
and
as
we
can
see
during
the
pandemic,
life
is
not
perfect
and
somebody
even
use
the
phrase.
We
don't
have
a
crystal
ball,
so
we
would
like
maybe
a
long-term
rental.
L
Occasionally
I
I
would
not
have
been
renting,
I
did
not
rent
during
the
pandemic
with
that
being
said,
I
just
want
you
to
fully
please
step
back
re-look
at
all
this
and,
let's
not
let
this
drag
on.
Let's
make
this
decision
move
forward
to
allow
the
full
kitchen
and
work
with
your
people
that
pay
the
taxes
here.
The
hotels
have
kitchens
and
stoves
don't
give
us
such
a
hard
time
tax-paying
residents.
L
L
L
Afternoon,
council,
my
name
is
ben
butler
and
I
live
in
the
weekend
community
here
near
downtown,
while
you
guys
are
discussing
sinks
and
long-term
versus
short-term
housing.
Please
keep
the
following
in
mind.
Long-Term
and
short-term
rentals
are
not
interchangeable.
In
the
march
ped
meeting
council
member
turner
mentioned
several
times
are
concerned
that
any
short-term
rental
unit
is
a
lost
long-term
unit.
If
that
were
the
case,
ms
turner
should
be
compelled
by
her
convictions
to
convert
her
short-term
rental
into
a
long-term
rental.
Of
course,
I
don't
imagine.
L
She
really
feels
this
way,
because
every
rental
unit
and
every
rental
owner
is
unique
and
as
a
short-term
rental
owner,
I
introduce
guests
to
asheville's
great
neighborhoods,
as
well
as
the
town
and
what
it
offers
people
who
prefer
long-term
rentals
for
prolonged,
steady
income
and
generally
don't
want
to
have
as
much
interaction
with
renters.
In
my
particular
situation,
I'd
like
to
give
you
some
numbers
because
we
seem
to
be
grasping
for
statistics,
so
I
can
only
speak
for
myself,
but
I
live.
I
have
two
houses
on
chicken
hill.
L
I
live
in
one
with
my
wife
and
in
the
second
500
feet
up
the
hill.
I
have
a
long-term
renter,
who
is
a
teacher
in
a
small
basement
apartment
that
she
can
afford.
She
couldn't
afford
the
rent
on
the
upper
part
of
the
house
based
on
what
the
market
demands
in
this
neighborhood,
because
this
person
co-hosts
the
airbnb
with
me.
I
pay
her
10
10
of
our
gross
rental
fee
revenue,
plus
cleaning
fees
and,
as
a
result,
she's
able
to
offset
her
rent
last
year
from
may
until
december.
She
offset
her
rent
by
70.
L
Last
or
last
month.
Sorry
remember:
council,
member
kilgore
raised
concerns
over
sanitation
release
related
to
the
removal
of
kitchen
six
from
short-term
rental
spaces.
Unfortunately,
she
was
overwhelmed
by
council
member
turner's
explanation
of
why,
in
her
case,
the
lack
of
a
kitchen
sink
is
just
not
a
problem.
L
In
my
case,
I
can
say
that
the
act,
the
idea
of
putting
a
kitchen
sink
in
the
bathroom
10
feet
away
from
the
kitchen
sink
actually
belongs,
seems
like
a
foolish
consistency
to
both
me
and
my
guests
of
our
45
reviews
over
the
last
year
on
our
short-term
rental.
Eight
of
those
reviews
mentioned
negatively
the
lack
of
a
kitchen
sink
and
one
rated
us
down
for
it.
A
sink
is
a
sanitation
issue.
L
It's
unreasonable,
unsanitary
and
destructive
to
encourage
renters
to
wash
their
coffee
grounds
and
food
waste
down
a
smaller
diameter,
bathroom
sink
with
no
food
disposal.
When
the
space
was
built
with
the
intention
of
having
a
full
kitchen,
it
seems
very
obvious
from
the
comments
of
staff
last
month
that
stripping
a
kitchen
space
of
its
function
for
an
inspection
hasn't
eliminated
the
greater
issue
of
absentee
land
boards.
K
M
Yes,
good
afternoon,
council,
this
is
christina
there.
I
am
a
homeowner
for
the
last
15
years
in
the
oakley
neighborhood
and
joined
the
homestay
network
in
2020,
in
hopes
of
being
able
to
offset
the
increasing
expenses
of
updating
and
maintaining
my
home
in
the
neighborhood
and,
of
course,
the
increased
taxes
due
to
the
desirability
of
owning
a
property
in
asheville.
I'm
able
to
allow
family
members
who
are
in
the
service
sector
and
work
in
nashville
to
live
upstairs
with
the
hopes
of
being
able
to
have
a
home
stay
in
the
walk-out
basement
of
my
property.
M
I've
been
delayed
in
being
able
to
do
this
in
part
because
we
have
installed
a
wet
bar
sink
which
does
not
fit
the
dimensions
of
what
is
currently
allowable.
It's
really
unfortunate
to
think
that
city
council
takes
the
time
to
be
able
to
come
into
my
home
and
tell
me
what
I
can
and
cannot
do
as
a
tax
paying
citizen
for
the
last
15
years
in
the
city
of
asheville.
Also,
I
think
it's
really
important
to
recognize
that
that
additional
revenue
that
I
would
earn
inadequate.
N
Kitchens
on
homestays
helps
create
more
affordable
housing.
I
see
it,
but
it
truly
prevents
them.
If
I
can't
have
a
sink
in
my
efficiency,
kitchen
area,
then
I
can't
switch
to
a
long-term
rental
in
five
years,
which
is
really
what
my
plan
is.
I,
I
suspect
I'm
gonna
get
tired
of
the
day-to-day
demands
of
running
a
homestay,
so
in
this
instance,
asheville
will
miss
out
on
a
chance
to
have
one
more
comfortable,
affordable
home
on
the
market.
B
This
is
gwen
whistler,
I'm
going
to
ask
brad
branham
to
address
that
question
relative
to
recusal
and
so.
B
Out
of
what
we
normally
do
with
public
comment
and
jenna,
if
you
could
stop
the
clock
on
this
and
then
I'm
going
to
ask
the
attorney
to
address
this
issue.
Okay,
thank
you.
N
Okay-
and
can
I
finish
my
last
few
words-
sure,
okay,
excellent,
I
just
thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
speak
and
to
be
heard,
and
I
just
thank
you
and
I
thank
you
all
for
your
work.
B
So
brad,
if
you
before
before
we
ask
the
next,
can
you
address
this
issue?
We've
gotten
a
lot
of
comments
that
councilwoman
turner
because
she
does
operate
a
homestay
should
recuse
herself
around
this
issue
and
I
know
you've
looked
at
it
and
councilwoman
turner
has
certainly
you
know,
taken
the
suggestion
seriously
and
asked
for
your
input
and
if
you
could
help
give
us
some
guidance
on
this.
C
Absolutely
chairman
whistler,
so
what
we
have
here
is
a
situation
which
we
must
start
from
the
basic
rule
in
north
carolina
found
in
general
statute
168-75,
which
requires
all
council
members
to
vote
whether
it
is
on
the
full
council
or
on
a
committee
on
all
items,
except
for
a
very
few
set
of
circumstances
where
there
are
exemptions.
C
C
You
find
the
actual
particular
standard
for
a
recusal
for
this
type
of
a
matter,
and
it
essentially
says
that
a
recusal
is
only
appropriate
where
the
vote
is
likely
to
have
a
quote:
direct,
substantial
and
readily
identifiable
financial
impact
to
the
council
member
in
quebec.
Now
what
that
means,
in
particular,
is
in
this
case
whether
or
not
this
move
forward
would
have
to
have
not
just
an
actual
financial
benefit,
but
a
substantial
one,
one
that
is
directly
attributable
to
this
particular
legislative
change.
C
Now,
because
councilwoman
turner's
home
stay
is
already
in
place,
she'd
be
grandfathered
in
any
change,
which
means
this
would
not
affect
by
limit
or
increasing
or
excuse
me
limiting
her
rules
at
all,
and
in
fact,
the
possibility
that
competition
would
be
decreased
would
be
so
difficult
to
ascertain
any
specific
substantial
benefit
to
her.
It
is
my
legal
opinion
that
it
does
not
rise
to
the
level
under
the
new
general
statutes
adopted
just
this
year
by
the
legislature.
O
After
getting
a
permit
deal
with
immediate
noise
complaints
or
catch
a
host
lying
about
living
on
the
property
once
they
get
their
permit,
the
city
still
has
an
enforcement
role
to
play,
and
the
staff
proposals
were
designed
to
help
with
this
and
a
side
comment
regarding
the
fine
discussion
that
was
earlier
put
out
was
talking
about
increasing
fines
and
one
of
the
you
know
ultimatum.
O
The
ultimate
third
strike
thing
was
to
revoke
a
permit,
and
I
would
just
note
that
many
of
these
people
don't
have
permits
that
are
out
there.
So,
finally,
I
would
say
that
the
redefined
homestay
ordinance
recently
provoked
by
staff
as
a
result
of
years
of
work
between
the
homestay.
L
E
E
Hi,
my
name
is
sarah:
with
attached
units,
do
you
think
you're
accomplishing
our
existing
kitchen
will
likely
not
go
back
and
forth
between
homes
for
trying
to
solve
making
of
houses
in
this
city,
including
us,
affordable,
homestay
problem?
Rather
it
involves
of
how
things
operate
in
the
city,
perhaps
requirements
for
halex's
so
that
developers
can
afford
to
build
units
without
parking.
Perhaps
you
can
redirect
tourism
advertisement
dollars
to
help
subsidize
affordable
housing,
for
perhaps
you
can
increase
the
nightly
room,
taxes
and
direct
those
dollars
into
affordable
housing
projects
like
rent
subsidies
and
affordable
housing
units.
E
You
are
preying
on
the
individual
homestay
hosts,
rather
than
going
after
the
bigger
fish
that
will
bring
affordable
housing
to
our
city
and,
most
importantly,
these
arbitrary
homestay
rules
aren't
accomplishing
what
you
want
them
to,
but
rather
they're
punishing
the
local
entrepreneur
resident
who's
trying
to
make
their
life
affordable
in
this
town.
Homestay
hosts
our
local
entrepreneurs
in
the
same
way
that
restaurateurs
and
artists
and
trades
people
are.
Why
are
we
charged
with
wholly
carrying
the
burden
of
affordable
housing?
E
E
P
Okay,
great,
thank
you
good
afternoon.
This
is
jackson
tierney.
I
have
some
prepared
remarks,
but
I
think
my
time
is
probably
better
spent
responding
to
some
of
the
discussion
that
followed
jan
tuck's
presentation.
P
If
you
look
at
portland
about
10
years
ago,
they
were
creating
about
28
adus
per
year
and
when
they
took
the
lid
off
and
allowed
people
to
use
them
for
short-term
rental,
they
found
that
more
of
them
were
being
built
and
they
went
from
28
a
year
to
over
600
per
years,
they've
built
about
3
000
in
the
last
five
years,
and
that
the
other
thing
that
they
studied
very
closely
is
the
attrition
rate
of
short-term
hosts
and
they
found
that
50
of
the
hosts
give
up
house
alliance.
P
The
last
is
in
regards
to
the
number
of
permit
holders.
There
are
691
home
stays.
P
68
excuse
me:
68
have
said
that
they
have
been
negatively
impacted
by
the
kitchen
rule
and
in
fact,
120
permit
holders
have
given
up
their
permit
in
the
last
year,
mainly
due
to
covid,
but
also
I've
gotten
lots
of
notes.
People
just
are
exhausted.
Q
If
I'm
running
out
my
basement
or
a
part
of
my
home,
whether
it
has
a
kitchen
suite
later
in
life
and
be
making
that
addition,
if
I
wasn't
able
to
rent
it
out
short
term,
so
I
truly
do
believe
by
making
these
strong
restrictions
you're,
limiting
all
rentals
and
not
just
long-term
rentals
or
short-term
rentals.
So
it's
you,
then.
If
you
make
the
restrictions
too
much,
I
truly
think
you
will
put
a
limit
on
the
long-term
rentals
that
may
have
possibly
been
created.
L
To
the
council,
I'm
also
not
frankly
clear
on
what
the
recommendation
is
from
the
city
staff.
Are
they
recommending
the
full
or
are
they
just
showing
three
options?
Are
they
recommending
the
full
kitchen
and
the
current
regulations,
which
are
a
small
fridge,
a
big
sink
and
no
stove
don't
seem
to
be
on
there
at
all?
So
again,
I'm
sort
of
confused
about
what
is
the
committee
being
asked
to
evaluate,
in
my
opinion,
if
you
know
the
idea
of
limiting
to
one
owner
for
homestay
seems
very
likely
to
preserve
the
character
of
our
neighborhoods.
L
If
that
is
one
of
the
goals-
and
I
know
there's
been
a
few
different
opinions
about
what
the
impact
of
permitting
full
kitchens
would
be,
but
it
feels
like
in
the
long
run,
it
is
more
likely
to
increase
rental
housing.
I
know
that's
my
sister-in-law's
plan
and
I
think
we
just
heard
some
information
from
portland.
That
also
supports
that.
That
is
what
has
happened
in
the
real
world.
So
I
thank
you
for
your
time
and
just
as
an
fyi.
L
G
A
L
L
The
fact
that
I
have
a
kitchen
in
a
rental
space-
or
even
if
I
don't
should
not
be
legislated,
I
understand,
there's
a
need
for
affordable,
long-term
housing.
Everyone
does,
however,
please
understand
that
I
am
renting
out
a
portion
of
my
own
home
and
I'll
always
be
extremely
careful
on
who
I
choose
to
occupy
that
space.
L
I
do
not
want
a
long-term
renter.
The
extra
bedroom
that
I
have
in
my
house
is
not
conducive
to
long-term
renters.
I
will
never
take
a
risk
on
letting
someone
move
in
trash
the
place,
not
pay
rent
and
then
be
told
by
a
judge
that
the
tenant
has
more
rights
than
I
do
and
there's
absolutely
nothing.
I
can
do
to
evict
them
other
than
wait
several
months
and
lose
countless
dollars
in
the
process.
L
Hence
the
short-term
rental
market
is
perfect
for
homeowners,
who
do
not
want
to
take
such
risk
and
or
want
to
enjoy
periods
of
time
without
anyone
in
our
homes
holidays.
For
instance,
you
have
stated
in
this
meeting
that
you
have
zero
statistics
on
how
many
long-term
rentals
are
eliminated
by
the
presence
of
short-term
rentals.
L
L
L
Hello,
my
name
is
michael
bunch,
I'm
a
homestay
host
in
the
kenilworth
neighborhood
for
the
last
six
years.
I
believe
we
are
grandfathered
in
and
also
our
kitchen
has
a
full-size
sink
and
a
full-size
refrigerator.
L
One
of
our
concerns
is
that
if
our,
if
we
ever
decide
to
sell
our
house
or
if
our
permit
lapses,
then
we
will
we
would
we
basically,
we
wouldn't
be
able
to
do
a
short-term
rental
or
we
would
have
to
spend
a
considerable
amount
of
money,
changing
the
kitchen
ripping
things
out
and
that's
that's
a
concern
that
seems
to
be
over
our
head
that
I
it
just.
L
It's
unsettling
also
the
increased
value.
You
know
our
house
has
increased
its
value
having
a
a
small
apartment
downstairs
and
that
that
has
raised
along
with
the
value
it
has
also
our
property
taxes
are
raised
over
the
last
two
years.
The
property
taxes
have
gone
up,
35,
which
was
shocking.
It
was
actually
all
in
one:
go
the
property
taxes
just
went
straight
up
and
so
having
a
short-term
rental
in
our
house.
K
It
seems
like
a
very
arbitrary,
arbitrary
thing
to
to
target.
Thank
you.
R
Good
afternoon
everybody,
my
name
is
frank
manganero
and
I
am
a
permitted
homestay
host.
I
I
work
in
education.
R
R
R
I
also
want
asheville
to
be
a
place
with
affordable
housing
and
just
to
know
I
mean
you
know,
the
city
of
asheville
is
one
of
the
highest.
Has
one
of
the
highest
cost
of
living
of
all
the
cities
in
north
carolina.
So
that's
just
a
reality
here.
R
I
I
think
it's
the
responsibility
of
the
state
and
city
governments
to
provide
affordable
housing
in
their
jurisdictions,
and
that
seems
to
be,
you
know
happening
with
the
beer
deeper
view,
apartments
that
are
going
to
be
like
refurbished
or
whatever,
but
it
appears
that
these
government
entities
are
trying
to
blame
a
shortage
of
affordable
housing
on
homeowners.
R
R
That's
true,
I'm
in
favor
of
changing
the
city
regulations
to
allow
a
regular-sized
sink
in
the
convenience
bar
short-term
rentals.
R
I
think
it's
very
unsanitary
that
I
have
to
have
my
guests
wash
their
glasses
and
snack
dishes
in
the
bathroom
sink,
which
is
for
personal
hygiene,
not
for
washing
dishes.
I'm
asking
the
city
to
take
a
stand
for
its
hardworking
taxpaying
homeowners,
who
are
really
the
backbone
of
the
city.
Last
year,
both
the
planning
and
economic
development.
The
planning
and
zoning
teams
passed
the
proposal
to
change
the
rules
by
three
zero
three
to
zero
and
five
zero
votes.
R
It
was
supposed
to
be
brought
to
the
council
for
discussion
and
vote
this
past
january,
so
really
for
the
city
to
take
an
about
face
on
it.
Now
it's
like
a
slap
in
the
face
to
its
citizen
homeowners,
I'm
just
encouraging
all
the
committees
in
the
council
to
honor
all
the
hard
work
that
has
been
done
on
this
proposal
for
the
past
several
years
and
not
throw
it
away.
Just
because
we
had
a
turnover
of
some
council
members,
there
has
to
be
some
continuity
there.
L
Hello,
this
is
andy
brockmeyer.
Thank
you
very
much.
When
I
was
eight
years
old,
my
mother
bought
a
house
with
a
detached
garage
apartment
in
santa
fe
new
mexico.
40
years
later,
I
look
back
and
think
what
an
incredible
asset
that
tiny
guest
house
was
to
her
life
and
mine.
When
I
was
12,
my
grandparents
came
to
visit
for
a
whole
month,
one
summer,
another
summer,
my
aunt
came
to
visit
for
a
whole
month.
L
That
was
the
longest
time
I
ever
got
to
spend
with
those
relatives
another
time
my
brother
came
home
when
he
was
going
through
a
divorce
and
spent
time.
Another
time
my
sister
came
home
to
get
her
nursing
degree
and
stayed
in
that
guest
house.
It
had
its
own,
its
own
kitchen,
its
own
cooking
facilities,
its
own
bathroom.
L
L
There
was
also
a
time
when
my
I'm
sorry
that
little
guest
house
was
such
an
important
part
of
my
mother's
life,
as
well
as
her
personal
economy.
It
helped
her
to
pay.
The
mortgage
gave
her
the
versatility
to
have
a
flexible
and
colorful
life,
even
though
she
didn't
have
much
money.
She
was
a
rock
for
her
children
and
grandchildren.
L
The
reason
I
tell
you
these
things
is
because
america
is
about
freedom
and
about
property
rights.
If
the
city
of
santa
fe
had
gotten
off
track
like
astral
and
adopted
these
gestapo,
like
tracking
and
punitive
techniques
that
my
mother
would
have
never
been
able
to
have
such
a
flexible
and
gracious
life
allowing
her
to
age
in
place
when
she
was
70,
she
moved
from
her
big
house
into
her
tiny
house,
her
garage
apartment
and
downsized.
L
She
had
the
options
to
have
her
family
come
and
go,
and
it
was
a
beautiful
thing.
The
fact
that
the
city
of
asheville
has
been
chasing
its
own
tale,
arguing
about
kitchen,
no
kitchen
short
term
long
term
sink
or
not
sink
detached
attached
is
just
a
waste
of
time.
I've
been
waiting
for
three
years
to
create
my
homestay.
L
I
can't
wait
to
do
it,
but
I'm
at
a
stand
under
the
same
roof
share
a
kitchen
wash
their
dirty
wine,
glasses
and
dirty
plates
in
a
bathroom
sink
does
not
show
asheville
visitors
our
best,
but
rather
shows
them
our
worst.
Surely
we
can
be
bigger
and
better.
We
are
lucky.
We
live
in
a
unique
place
and
we
have
this
one
opportunity
to
create
a
legacy
where
asheville
homeowners
have
the
flexibility
to
do
what
they
want
with
their
house.
L
Pay
their
bills,
use
that
money
to
send
their
kids
to
college
all
from
the
possibility
of
renting
out
a
bedroom,
a
basement,
a
garage
apartment
or
an
even
an
accessory
structure,
which
is
currently
being
considered
to
be
stripped
from
the
rights
of
the
citizens
of
asheville.
Affordable
housing
is
not
about
limiting
people's
options.
Affordable
housing
is
about
creating
more
units
units
for
wealthy
units
for
middle
class
and
units
for
poor
people.
We
have
housing
shortages
throughout
the
spectrum.
The.
B
Okay,
so
I
think
at
this
point,
staff
would
like
some
guidance
unless,
unless
you
all
want
to
vote
on
it,
so
what
I
would,
what
I'm
going
to
do
is
ask
each
of
the
council
members
to
tell
me
where
you
stand
on
option,
one
two
or
three
relatives
of
the
kitchen.
I
Okay,
on
the
on
the
one
two
and
three
option
for
the
sink
in
the
kitchen,
I
will
say:
I'm
really
torn
between
the
option,
one
allowing
the
sink
and
the
you
know,
refrigerator
whatever
no
stove
and
and
part
of
me
is
still
sort
of
the
option,
three
of
allowing
the
full
kitchen,
so
I
would
say,
that's
sort
of
where
I
am
between
those.
I
As
far
as
the
investor,
I
think
I
think
we
should
just
allow
one
home
stay
per
resident.
I
think
we
need
to
go
with
that
officer.
You
mean
yeah
yeah,
her
owner,
yes
uh-huh,
so
that's
where
I'm
leaning
on
those
sorry,
like
I
said,
that's
where
I
am,
I'm
not
really.
You
know:
okay,
okay,.
G
G
I
don't
my
preference
is
that
I
don't
think
we
know
enough
to
change
the
rules.
I
do
agree
that
one
per
rule
may
be
beneficial
and
I
would
request
that
when
information
comes
to
council,
we
get
a
little
more
detail
on
what
that
looks
like,
and
what
what.
G
What
that
means
for
enforcement
and
if
the
city
staff
feel
that
that
will
help
them
in
enforcement
and
how
and
if
that
means
we'll
need
more
enforcement
staff,
etc.
I
just
think
there's
a
little
more
to
that
gelling
there,
but
I
do.
I
do
in
general
support
the
idea
that
we
need
to
limit
it
to
one
owner
or
one
per
owner
and
then.
G
Current,
I
personally
don't
I
don't
support
expanding
short-term
rentals
until
we
have
greater
enforcement,
greater
understanding
of
the
impact
and
have
really-
and
I
hope,
we'll
have
these
larger
discussions
that
council
around
what
it's
doing
to
increasing
housing
costs
and
who
it's
impacting
et
cetera,
and
I
really
appreciate
everybody's
input
today.
I
know
it's
a
really
complicated
issue.
G
I'm
not
supportive
of
expanding
short
the
so
at
this
point.
B
So
at
this
point
you
would
say
number
two:
don't
allow
any
major
kitchen
elements
so
no
sink,
no
refrigerator,
no
stove.
B
B
H
Yeah,
thank
you.
It
is
number
two
is
meant
to
reflect
today's
options,
so
you
heard
reference
in
some
of
the
callers
about
this,
like
unusual
sink,
doing
a
custom
sink,
that's
unusually
deep,
so
the
definition
today
says
a
kitchen
is
anything
that
includes
any
one
of
the
three
and
then
it
describes
a
full-size
refrigerator,
a
stove
and
then
a
sink
of
particular
dimensions,
and
I
explained
last
month
that
that
was
meant
to
allow
to
not
preclude
a
lavatory
sink
or
a
utility
sink,
so
it
it
has
this
kind
of
weird
dimensional
requirements
to
it.
H
But
unfortunately,
what's
happened.
Is
people
read
that
and
they
think
they
start
a
search
for
a
sync
that
meets
these
weird
dimensional
requirements,
but
that's
not
what
it
was
meant
for.
So
if
the
preference
was
to
keep
the
status
quo,
what
we
would
recommend
is
just
updating
that
that
part
of
the
definition
just
to
kind
of
clarify
that
particular
point,
it
was
not
meant
to
kind
of
allow
for
really
peculiar
custom-made
sinks.
It
was
really
just
not
to
preclude
the
commonly
found
thing
then,
which
we
think.
F
We
we
don't
have
an
accurate
measure
of
those
because
we
don't
track.
We've
not
tracked
that
metric,
but
I
would
say
you
know,
certainly
less
than
less
than
50.
B
Okay,
oh
and-
and
I
also
would
vote
yes
to
excluding
detached
accessory
units
from
allowing
them
to
be
homestays,
and
I
stake
my
decision
on
that
relative
to
the
fact
that
we
spent
a
lot
of
time
spent
a
lot
of
time
in
the
neighborhoods
about
the
ability
for
people
to
actually
build
more
of
those
accessory
units.
B
And
specifically
the
regulations
said
it
was
to
be
used
for
housing,
not
for
not
for
short-term
rentals
and
I
feel
like
if
we
would
allow
that
now
we
would
be
going
back
on
a
promise
we
made
to
neighborhoods.
So
that's
one
of
the
reasons
that
for
me,
I
vote
that
way.
B
So,
if
I'm
hearing
this
correctly,
we
have
consensus
and
we
have
consensus
three
people,
consent
and
agree,
and-
and
you
know
what
we'll
take
a
vote
on
it
relative
to
changing
the
rules
around
limiting
ownership
of
a
or
limiting
home
state
permits
to
one
owner,
say
that
better.
For
me,
shannon.
H
D
B
So
I'm
gonna
take
a
vote
on
that
councilwoman
turner,
hi,
councilwoman,
kilgore
hi
and
I'm
and
I
relative
to
the
kitchen
definition.
Apparently
we
do
not
have
consensus
around
this.
So
what
I'm
hearing
councilwoman
kilgore
say
is
she
probably
is
either
option
number
one
or
option
number
three
councilwoman
turner
is
for
option
number
two
and
councilwoman
whistler
is
oh.
I
think
that
councilwoman
turner
would
say,
go
ahead
and
tweak
whatever
a
one
or
two
going
back
to.
G
B
Okay,
so
councilwoman
turner
is
supportive
of
option
number
two
and
councilwoman
whistler
is
in
support
of
option
number
three,
and
my
thinking
about
that
is.
I
guess
I've
heard
so
much
about
enforcement
that
it's
it's
hard
for
me
to
go
back
to
option
number
one,
because
you
know
we
definitely
heard
people
rolling
their
stove
in
and
out.
You
know
as
soon
as
chris
left
they
just
roll
that
that
stove
back
in
but
option
number
two
for
me.
I
just
am
not.
B
I
guess
I
am
compelled
by
some
of
the
arguments
around
flexibility
relative
to
these
spaces,
and
so
I
would
be
supportive
of
option
number
three
so
shannon
I
I
know
that
we
need
to
bring
this
in
front
of
council
and
I
trust
that,
however,
that
I'm
sorry
my
husband's
phone's
going
off
sorry
that
you
will
present
this.
B
You
know
as
that
there
really
was
a
consensus
around
this
issue.
Okay,
sorry
about
that,
all
right.
So
with
that,
I
am
going
to
I'm
going
to
adjourn
the
meeting
unless
anyone
has
any
more
comments.
B
Again,
since
since
we
already
talked
about
short-term
rentals
that
that
they
can
talk
about
anything
else,
they
want
to,
but
not.
S
S
D
Respond
to
so,
if
there's
thinking
around
that
at
some
point
I'd
appreciate
hearing
it.
B
That
was
our
only
caller.
Okay,
thanks
jenna.
I
appreciate
it,
so
I
really
appreciate
all
the
input
and
all
the
all
the
good
thinking
that's
been
put
in
this.
This
is
an
incredibly
difficult
area
since
I've
been
on
city
council.
You
know
what
six
months
don't
go
by,
but
without
discussing
this
issue
and
it's
and
it
you
know.
Unfortunately
I
don't
it
there's
a
lot
of
speculation
around
some
of
this
and
what
the
effects
are,
and
it's
it's
just
an
area
that
it's
just
difficult
to
get.
B
You
know
heavy-duty
data
on
things,
and
so
we
just
got
to
do
the
best
we
can.
So
with
that.
I
am
going
to
adjourn
the
meeting,
see
you
next
tuesday
folks.
Thank
you
thanks
staff
for
all
your
hard
work,
always.