►
From YouTube: Thinking Out Loud #15 — with Pia Mancini
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A
A
Hello
once
again,
folks
welcome
to
thinking
out
loud.
My
name
is
fran
mendes
and
one
more
week,
I'm
here
with
you
to
to
have
a
chat
about.
You
know
open
source,
async
api
and,
let's
see
who
knows
like
our
next
guest
our
guest
today
is
probably,
if
not
her,
probably
what's
her
job,
let's
say,
is
probably
well
known
in
the
open
source
community.
A
A
So
if
you
have
any
questions,
any
comment:
you're
not
on
the
on
the
live
stream,
but
you're
in
the
chat
so
feel
free
to
join
the
conversation
via
chat
and
I'll.
Make
sure
that
we
read
this
this
comment
or
this
question
and
we
can
we
chat
about
it.
So
yeah
don't
be
shy,
hey
missy,
by
the
way,
and
last
but
not
least
so,
if
you
want
to
follow
us,
this
is
async
api,
spec
profile
on
on
twitter.
A
There.
If
you
follow
us,
you'll
get
notifications
of
all
the
things
that
we
do,
which
is
probably
not
a
good
thing
to
mention
now,
because
you're
going
to
get
a
lot
of
notifications.
But,
jokes
aside,
I
think
it's
a
it's
a
good
thing.
You
you'll
actually
like
it
so
yeah.
So
that's
it!
Let
me
introduce
our
next
guest,
pia
mancini.
Let
me
enable
her
video
okay,
welcome
pia
hi
hi.
Everyone.
B
A
B
Yeah
sure
hi
everyone-
I
am
pia
manchini,
I'm
co-founder
and
ceo
of
open,
collective
and
also
co-founder
of
the
open
source
collective,
which
we
can
go
into
what
on
earth.
All
of
that
is
soon
but
yeah
I
am
originally
from
argentina.
I
live
in
spain
in
madrid,
with
my
husband
and
my
six-year-old
daughter.
That
is
like
literally
crawling
beneath
me
at
the
moment.
So
here
we
are
so
roma
is
around
today,
so
apologies,
everyone,
but
she's
lovely.
A
B
A
B
Yeah
yeah,
when
I
started
this
whole,
you
know
we
started
this
whole
thing.
I
was
in
charge
of
creating
a
lot
of
the
legal
entities
that
we
use,
and
so
everything
is
called
open
and
collective,
which
is
slightly
my
fault
that
it's
very
confusing
and
my
comms
team
is
not
happy
about
that,
but
essentially
kind
of
the
problem
that
we
we
want
to
solve,
that
we
we
are
solving
is
okay.
We
want
to
help.
B
We
want
to
enable
communities
and
to
fundraise
and
spend
money
transparently
without
becoming
something
that
they're
not
right
without
becoming
legal
entities.
So
communities
essentially
are
groups
of
people
that
have
a
shared
purpose.
A
shared
mission
like
an
open
source
project
right,
an
open
source
project,
is
like
a
bunch
of
people.
It's
a
community
and
the
product
of
their
creativity
right
and
the
financial
system,
or
the
economic
system
at
large,
doesn't
really
understand
the
economy,
the
community,
with
economic
power.
They
don't
understand
how
you
can
give
money
to
something.
B
B
How
can
we
make
it
so
that
communities
can
successfully
fundraise
and
spend
money
and
pay
their
members
without
having
to
become
you
know
an
open
core
kind
of
project
or
a
company
or
a
foundation
right,
because
maybe
that's
not
what
they
want
and,
and
so
where
we
are
coming
from
both
xavier
damman,
my
co-founder
and
myself,
we
had
experiences
trying
to
do.
I
come
from
politics,
and,
and
so
I
started
a
political
party
in
argentina,
for
example,
and
we
couldn't
raise
funds
for
our
campaign
until
government
told
us.
B
Yes,
okay,
you
are
like
a
valid
political
party
right
and
we
always
felt
it
was
so
unfair
because
it's
like
the
ultimate
gatekeeping
right,
you
can't
fundraise
until
you
become
what
we
say
is
okay
to
be
you
know,
and-
and
that's
where
we're
coming
from
we're
coming
from
like
this
kind
of
experience
in
how
unfair
it
is
that
the
system
is
forcing
us
to
be
triangles
to
you
know,
you
know
when
we're
circles
right,
we
are
we're
not
a
corporation.
We
don't
have
hierarchical
structures,
we
don't
want
like
a
president.
B
B
That
is
the
platform
that
communities
use
to
raise
funds
manage
their
money,
pay
their
contributors
create.
Events
have
like
this
minimal
organizational
structure.
The
platform
is
built
and
developed
by
a
company
called
open,
collective
inc
right.
That's
the
company
that
I
co-founded
and
I'm
I'm
the
ceo
of,
but
then
the
other
part
of
the
solution
is
where,
where
is
the
money
going
to
right?
B
The
platform
plus
the
non-profit,
where
you
put
the
money
and
open
collective,
is
what
I
like
to
call
a
constellation
right,
because
it's
like
a
gazillion
different
things
at
the
same
time,
but
at
the
core
is
a
network
that
is
made
up
of
a
platform
that
is
developed
by
a
company
and
a
network
of
more
than
300
nonprofits
around
the
world
right
that
are
giving
these
services
to
collectives,
because
it's
not
just
the
open
source
ecosystem.
It's
also
the
solidarity
economy.
It's
also
europe,
it's
also
africa
and
new
zealand
right.
B
A
No
just
kidding,
but
actually
I
was
going
to
mention
this
this-
that
part
about
the
physical
hosts,
because
when
I
first
knew
about
open
collective,
I
was
like
yeah,
that's
cool.
I
can
sign
up
here,
maybe
create
my
project,
but
what's
going
to
happen
next,
I
like
how?
How
can
I
get
a
bank
account?
How
can
I
receive
money
precisely
because
of
this
that
you
are
you're
mentioning?
I
was
like
highly
stressed.
A
I
had
people
telling
me
in
private
in
in
large
email
chains,
telling
me
that
yeah
we
want
to
give
you
money.
We
want
to
pay
you,
but
I
wasn't
a
a
company
and
I
was
just
an
employee
in
a
company
and-
and
I
was
always
thinking
like-
should
I
quit
and
create
my
own
company
and
if
so,
I'm
gonna
start
receiving
a
lot
of
money.
A
That
is
not
really
a
payment.
It's
a
donation,
so
I
will
have
to
handle
this
kind
of
physicality
and
I
have
no
idea
how
to
do
it
and
that's
a
lot
of
complexity,
and
I
was
like
I'm
just
a
developer.
Can
I
like?
I
don't
want
to
be
doing
this?
Can
I
just
continue
developing
and
you
give
me
the
money
and
everybody
shuts
up?
A
I
can't
we
just
do
this.
I'm
not
gonna
do
anything
weird
with
the
money
just
living
right.
I
knew
I
needed
for
a
living
and-
and
I
was
initially
I
was
thinking
that
and
then
the
other
solution
came
to
mind
and
it's
like
I'm
gonna,
then
create
a
foundation,
but
then
there
are
lots
of
things
to
take
into
account.
For
instance,
I
live
in
spain,
so
where
do
I
create
the
foundation
in
spain?
If
so,
if
I
create
a
foundation
in
spain,
then
I
have
problems.
A
B
A
A
I
just
want
to
develop
async
api.
I
don't
want
to
create
a
foundation
or
a
company
you
can
like,
like
I
just
said
right
so
yeah.
That
was
that
that's
when
I
understood
that
you're
providing
also
the
fiscal
house-
and
I
was
I
was
like-
I
can't
believe
it.
I
can't
believe
this
is
real
like
there
must
be
some
kind
of
weird
thing
that
the
you
know,
a
theme
that
was
like,
which
is
like
the
irs
in
the
us,
is
going
to
come
after
me,
because
I'm
doing
something
illegal.
B
Totally
daunting,
and
also
also
inefficient,
like
why
we'll
be
focusing
on
you
know,
I
always
make
the
joke
that
like.
Why?
Should
you
be
talking
to
accountants
and
lawyers?
I
have
nothing
against
accountants
and
lawyers,
but
it's
hard
to
argue
that
that's
where
we
should
be
spending
our
time
right.
A
A
I
want
to
make
a
a
shout
out
to
the
european
fiscal
host
from
here
to
jeff,
specifically
right
for
all
the
help
that
we
received,
so
so
those
who
are
watching-
maybe
don't
some
some
know
and
some
don't
know.
But
last
year
we
created
a
campaign.
I
mean
like
lucas
and
I
created
a
campaign
to
help
the
afghanistan
folks
to
escape
from
war
and
after
a
bunch
of
trial
and
error,
with
different
platforms.
We
realized
like
open
collective,
maybe
like
we're
complicating
our
lives.
A
Okay,
so
I
can
show
it
here
so
yeah.
So
as
one
of
the
beneficiaries
of
a
open
collective
campaign
for
afghanistan's
oss
developers
during
the
war,
I
have
seen
firsthand
how
beetle
the
rule
of
platforms
like
open,
collective
collective
can
be.
I
was
wondering
what
has
been
the
rule
of
open
collective
to
help
communities
in
other
imminent
humanitarian
crises
like
the
war
in
ukraine,.
B
Thank
you
for
your
question,
so
yeah
I
mean
we
we're
doing
a
big
effort
for
the
ukrainian
relief,
the
solidarity
effort,
and
so
what
we
are
doing
is
we
are
helping.
We
are
enabling
fundraising
for
a
project,
so
we're
doing
several
things,
but
I
would
say
that
the
largest
one
is
like.
We
are
essentially
sending
one
thousand
dollars
to
a
family
in
ukraine
per
family
right
and
we've
so
far
deployed
three
million
dollars.
B
So
that's
a
lot
of
families
that
we
were
able
to
fund
with
the
1k
project.
What
I
really
like
about
open
collective
is
kind
of
the
flexibility
that
we
we
have
like.
As
you
were
saying,
it's
really
difficult
to
start
a
project
or
a
foundation,
because
once
you
started
like
what,
if
you
wanted
to
stop,
you
need
to
shut
it
down
and
sometimes
it's
harder
to
shut
things
down
than
just
to
start
new
ones
right.
It's
like
really
difficult
because
you
have
to
close
it
and
there's
a
ton
of
paperwork.
B
So
so
the
1k
project
was
a
project
that
started
during
covet
during
covid.
We
did.
We
had
a
zero
fee.
You
know
like
offer.
I
don't
know
how
to
call
it
like
zero
fees
for
all
cobit
projects
right
it
was
our
contribution
to
the
world.
Was
you
know?
We
are
all
in
the
same
boat
here.
So
if
you
are
raising
money
for
kovid,
for
you
know,
I
think
we
ended
up
doing
up
to
six
months.
We're
not
gonna
charge
any
fees
on
the
money
that
you
fundraise
right.
B
B
There
was
this
really
awful
situation
where
black
students
were
left
like
at
the
end
of
the
queue
so
to
say,
and
and
because
the
russians
were
still
shelling
at
that
time
in
that
place,
like
a
lot
of
them,
couldn't
even
be
rescued
right,
so
black
women,
for
I,
I
think
it's
black
women
for
ukraine,
the
name
of
the
collective.
It's
like
fundraising,
for,
like
essentially
getting
black
students
out
of
of
ukraine.
So
so
many
efforts
like
that
we
have
obviously
a
zero
fee
in
open
collective
europe.
B
A
That
is,
that
is,
that
is
that
is
really
cool
by
the
way.
Kuda
is
thank
you
for
for
answering
I
mean
thanks
kuda
for
asking
the
question
first
place
sam.
I
was
as
as
you
were
speaking
about
it.
I
was
thinking
like
you
know
that
we
it's
like
we
go
by
chapters
like
now.
It's
afghanistan
war.
Now
it's
ukraine
or
coveted
in
ukraine
or
or
you
know
like
chapters
right,
but
we
don't
close
the
chapters.
A
We
just
jump
to
another
thing,
and
I
don't
know
if
I'm
making
myself
understandable,
but
what
I
mean
here
is
that
we
keen
the
focus,
put
the
focus
in
something
we
all
go
like.
Oh,
let's
help
these
people
and
then
it's
like
after
some
time.
It's
like
no,
these
people
are
fine
already,
let's
move
to
another,
this
other
thing
something
else
right
now.
A
It's
ukraine,
which
I'm
not
obviously-
and
I
want
this
to
be
clear,
like
I'm,
not
criticizing
those
who
are
helping
ukrainian
people,
of
course
not,
but
but
I
mean
we
are
helping
ourselves
personally,
like
you
know
my
team
and
and
and
the
people
I
know
we're
also
help
like
as
much
as
we
can
we're,
also
helping
financially
and
helping
in
other
ways
as
well.
So
the
thing
here
is
that
I
have
the
feeling.
A
I
don't
know
if,
if,
if
you
have
the
same
feeling
as
well,
that
we
kind
of
forget
about
stuff
like
like
nobody's
looking
at
afghanistan
anymore
and
the
problem
is
not
over.
Actually
it's
getting
worse
right,
so
I'm
loving
because
yeah,
I
can't
believe
it.
But
you
know
it's
not
funny,
but
recently
I
heard
about
you
know
this
news
that
women
cannot
now
go
to
school
or
or
university,
and
so
on.
So
they
have
no
rights
for
education
and
and
now
they
have
to
start
that
they
have
to.
A
They
cannot
go
out
uncovered
right,
so
so
yeah.
So
it's
still
a
it's
still
a
problem.
It's
the
problem
persists,
of
course,
nobody's
bombing
anymore.
I
mean,
I
hope,
nobody's
bumping
anymore,
but
I
have
the
feeling
that
media
is
also
like
driving
us
in
one
way
or
another
and
that
we
forget
about.
We
forget
about
this
humanitarian
crisis,
and
I
just
I
mean
not
not
want
to.
I
don't
want
to
criticize,
or
anything
just
want
to
mention
that
I
have
sometimes.
B
A
C
B
You
know
the
invasion
of
ukraine,
but
but
it's
also
it's
we're
also
human,
and
this
is
also
an
effect
of
empathy.
Like
what
happens
you
know
in
your
brain
when
you
feel
empathy
for
someone
else
is
that
everything
else
like
seems
to
be
less
important
right.
It's
like
when
you
have
high
empathy
for
something
that
is
the
only
thing
you
you
can
focus
on
that
you
care
about
right,
and
so
sometimes
it's.
This
kind
of
you
know
we
lack
perspective
or
we
can't.
B
A
B
A
B
A
Yeah,
so
there
are
many
many
more
things
happening,
and
actually
I
got
people
when
we
started
helping
afghanistan,
open
source
contributors
and
and
also-
and
I
think,
kpi
slack
people
started
a
like
a
campaign
to
help
ukrainian
people.
I
started
receiving
private
messages,
people
from
people
saying
like
hey.
Why
don't
you
help
other
people?
Other
countries
yeah,
it's
like
like
yemen-
was
one
of
them
like
it's
been
it's
been
there
for
a
while
or
or
palestine
or
palestinians,
for
instance
like
like
with
israel
and
so
on,
like
what?
A
B
A
B
B
B
I
don't
know
it's
different
she's
in
school,
you
know,
but
but
I
guess
the
first
thing
that
it
impacted
was
that
and
then
it
impacted
how
we
created
open
collective
because,
like
I
had
to
work
from
home
because
we
were
living
in
san
francisco
at
the
time
we
obviously
didn't
have
any
money
for
child
care
child
care
in
san
francisco.
It's
like
ridiculously
expensive.
Everything
in
san
francisco
is
like
insane.
B
B
Yeah,
so
so
so,
open
collective
from
the
get-go
was
created
as
a
remote
company
right
and
that,
I
think,
was
you
know
it
made
us
who
we
are
in
a
way
because
we
never
had
headquarters.
We
have
our
offices,
so
we
could
always
hire
from
anywhere
in
the
world,
so
we
have
folks
from
british
columbia
and
canada
all
the
way
to
new
zealand
like
stopping
in
every
continent.
B
That
also
had
to
do
with
me
being
like
a
new
mother
when,
when
everything
and
started
to
come
together-
and
I
guess
that
the
world
that
I
would
like
to
create
for
roma-
it's
the
first
thing
that
comes
to
mind
is
a
world
that
doesn't
need
passports
right.
Roma
roma
is
like
this
is
gonna
sound,
weird
in
maybe
this
community,
but
she's
a
blockchain
baby.
B
All
of
that
doesn't
exist
as
such
anymore,
like
the
problem
is
not
there
anymore
right,
we
have
a
tool
that
let
us
communicate
and
collaborate
at
scale.
That
is
planetary
right,
and
so
why
do
we
still
insist
in
being,
like
you
know,
define
our
identities
being
defined
by
the
territory
that
we're
born
in
that
is
just
random
or
the
currency
that
is
forced
upon
us?
I'm
from
argentina
so
like
currency
is
a
big
thing
for
me.
Yeah.
B
I
always
need
to
explain,
because
I
get
like
perks
perplexed,
you
know,
looks
and
I'm
like,
we
removed
13
zeros
from
our
currency.
So,
like
you
know,
we've
been
paying
the
price,
so
so
so
for
roma.
Like
I
really
wanted
her
to
have
this,
we
really
wanted
to
make
the
point
that
we
wanted
something
else,
that
it
was
a
network
to
be
able
to
certify
her
existence
before
we
registered
her
with
california.
B
You
know
she
was
born
there,
and
so
that,
for
me,
is
you
know,
speaks
to
the
headspace
that
we
have
that
the
the
problem
space
that
we
really
want
to
act
into,
and
so
for
me
it's
about
creating
structures
that
go
around
the
nation
state
and
open
collective
has
to
do
with
that
right.
Open
collective
has
to
do
with.
How
do
we
abstract
away
the
problem
of
you
know
having
to
be
somewhere
in
the
world
with
your
legal
entity
in
order
to
receive
money?
You
know
forget
about
that.
B
You're
like
operating
at
a
higher
level
of
the
stack
right
and
the
world
that
I
wanna
wanna
bring
about
is
one
where
passports
don't
exist.
Where,
like
borders,
don't
exist
as
such,
where
we
can,
you
know
freely,
move
to
other
cities
that
we
want
to
live
into
and
that
we
buy
into
and
be
represented
by.
You
know,
groups
of
people
or
networks
and
not
countries
right
nations
right.
That's
my
yeah
little
obsession
there.
A
B
B
That's
the
second
option,
we're
gonna
win
elections,
you
know:
do
a
political
party,
we're
gonna,
try
to
change
a
thing
here
or
there
or
you
can
build
up
an
alternative
right,
because
no
system
is
gonna
change
unless
we're
able
to
articulate
an
alternative
to
what
we
have,
and
so
it's
not
about
like
something
that
we're
gonna
bring
about
tomorrow.
You
know,
but
it's
it's
about
crystallizing,
an
idea
that
another
way
of
doing
things
is
possible,
and
this
is
how
you
structure
it
right
and
then
you
bring
people
over.
B
A
There
are
other
people
creating
other
alternatives
and
they're
pretty
pretty
advanced,
and
we
probably
don't
realize-
and
it's
the
companies,
the
you
know
like
not
the
companies
that
are
the
big
tech
companies,
the
big
corpse
corporations
right
so
they're
doing
exactly
that,
they're
trying
to
overcome
states
and-
and
you
know,
and
and
democracies,
and
so
on
so
they're
exactly
doing
this
they're
creating
like
like
they're,
creating
like
a
parallel
system
where
they
rule.
Basically
in
this
case.
B
A
B
A
They
want
to
become
the
one
state,
let's
say
the
the
multiverse
right,
but
the
multiverse
is
going
to
actually
be
they
their
universe,
the
only
universe
they
can
control
so
effectively
right.
So
it's
like
they
call
it
the
multiverse
but
yeah
multi
in
in
this
case.
I
don't
think
it's.
I
don't
know
it's
not
the
multiverse,
it's
the
metaverse,
sorry
yeah,
yeah
yeah.
I
was
yeah
yeah,
sorry,
sorry
for
the
confusion,
so
so
yeah.
So,
as
I
was
saying
like,
I
think
that
we
have
people.
A
We
have
corpse
right,
big
corpse,
trying
to
dominate
the
the
land
and
the
land,
the
the
the
landscape
of
of
how
people
interact
with
each
other,
how
people
communicate
how
people
you
know
like
they,
like
you,
said
like
they
feel
that
belonging
and
so
on.
So
so
we're
already
where
they
are
we're
already
seeing
this
kind
of
patterns
where
people
create
an
alternative
reality
to
the
the
one
that
is
based
on
borders
on
clients
and
so
on
and
they're
showing
this
way
as
well.
A
B
They
they
get
that
what
they
need
to
do
is
to
to
build,
and
you
know
also
crypto
is
doing
that.
You
know
and
whether
we
like
it
or
not-
and
we
have
a
lot
to
say
about
it
and
we
can
go.
You
know
deeper
into
this,
but
there's
like
web
free
space.
There's
like
you
know,
there's
currency
there
is
like
an
aesthetic.
B
You
know
there.
There
is
like
a
governance,
governance,
tooling
right.
There
is
a
jurisdiction
which
is
like
the
planet,
so
they
are
definitely
trying
to
to
say
you
have
like.
You
know,
jury
systems,
you
know
like
cleros
and
you
have
like
contracts
and
commas,
so
they
it's
it's
very
clear
to
me,
and
it
has
been
for
a
very
long
time
that
the
nation
state
is
declining
as
the
sole
kind
of
vector.
C
B
Organizes
power
right,
so
the
question
is:
what
is
the
alternative?
Gonna
look
like
and
it's
probably
gonna
be
a
mess,
and
it's
probably
gonna
be
everything
together.
Actually
messy,
I'm
gonna
have
like
remnants
of
the
the
nation
states.
You
know
pockets
of
of
you
know,
control
that
they're
still
gonna
have.
But
you
know
what
I
asked
myself
is
like
in
all
of
these
like
madness:
what
can
we?
What
sanity
can
we
bring?
B
Why
should
shouldn't
we
and
so
the
use
of
our
the
data
that
we
generate
online?
You
know,
instead
of
us
having
to
go
to
the
apis
right
and
and
kind
of
connect
to
every
single
api,
whether
that's
a
state
or
or
a
corporation
like.
Why
can't
we
be,
you
know
our
own
api
and
then
we
give
permissions
for
those
to
connect
with
us
right,
like
this
kind
of
personal
api
kind
of
identity,
vault
system.
B
A
A
Just
so
you
get
to
access
to
certain
things
and-
and
I'm
I'm,
I'm
actually
like
feeling
that
now,
like
now
that
async
api
become
became
more
popular
and
so
on,
and
it's
super
easy
for
me
to
access
to
certain
people
and
and
have
a
meeting
with
them
and
they
pay
attention
to
what
I
have
to
say
and
so
on.
Otherwise
they
will.
They
will
never
have
listened
to
me.
You
know
so
it's
like
this
lack
of
transparency
and
lack
of
ability
to
to
reach
out
to
people
or
to
certain
resources,
not
just
people.
A
B
A
A
C
A
A
C
Collective
does
for
open
source
community.
It's
just
simply
amazing
how
you
support
all
these
projects
to
get
funding,
and
I
was
always
thinking
and
that's
my
question.
It's
gonna
be
pretty
long,
because
I
want
to
make
sure
I
make
myself
clear.
So
I
was
always
thinking
like
if
open
collective
ever
tried
to
somehow
partner
with
big
tech.
C
And
what
I
mean
is
you
hear
all
over
the
place
like
it's
getting
popular,
that
some
companies
like
salesforce
or
netlify?
They
fund
some
kind
of
open
source
budgets,
like
1
million
bucks,
to
donate
to
open
source.
They
advertise
it
everywhere
that
they
will
share
money
with
the
community
because
they
support
open
source.
C
But
it's
all
pretty
individual
like
they
do
this
marketing
lie,
and
but
you
don't
see
any
like
transparent
progress
on
how
they
really
support
what
projects
where
how
they
distribute
money-
and
I
like,
because
we
truly
believe
addressing
api
as
well
in
like
in
full
transparence
like
that's
what
I
expect
from
them
as
well
like
if
they
take
the
credit
for
being
cool
to
give
away
money
to
the
projects.
They
should
also
be
super
transparent
in
a
way
how
they
really
do
it.
C
So
yeah.
To
summarize,
in
short,
my
question
like:
did
you
ever
consider
it?
You
think
it's
it's
possible
or
it's
actually
a
wishful
thinking,
because
in
the
end,
big
tech
don't
care
much
about
transparency,
they're,
pretty
afraid
of
transparency,
especially
if
it
comes
to
spending
money-
and
I
just
I
just
should
forget
about
the
concept
in
general
yeah
anyway.
B
Cool,
thank
you
lukas,
sorry
about
the
sound
snapple,
so
so,
okay,
so
one
part
of
the
answer
is
like
that
is
already
happening
for
those
donations
of
the
opera
collective
platform.
Right,
if
you
go
to
opencollective.com
chrome,
slash,
airbnb
salesforce,
you
know
you
can
see
they
are
all
the
donations,
all
the
money
that
they
spend
on
what
collectives
and
for
how
long,
etc.
B
Right
so
so
everything
it
that
kind
of
profile
for
open
collective
is
already
kind
of
a
thing
we,
what
what
we
are
not
getting
them
to
do,
but
we
haven't
really
pushed
very
hard,
is
for
them
to
show
other
contributions
that
they
make
right
outside
of
open
collective.
We
when
we
did
sustain
open
source.
I
think
it
was
like
the
first
sustain
or
the
second
one.
B
We
there
was
a
project
that
came
out
of
that
that
wanted
to
do
like
some
sort
of
like
corporate
shipping
right
where
we
would
like
track
all
the
corporate
contributions
to
open
source.
A
lot
of
companies
want
to
do
it.
I
don't
think
that
there
is
like
well,
maybe
not
all,
but
some
companies
want
to
do
it
and
I
don't
think
there
is
like.
I
don't
want
to
be
transparent
aspect
to
it.
There's
there's
like
an
aspect
that
is
very
messy
right
for
take.
B
Google
right,
google,
like
does
open
source
themselves.
They
fund
open
source
via
open
collective.
They
fund
open
source
via
like
well.
They
found
open
source
institutions
like
linux
foundation,
which
is
not
project
directed
funding,
but
it's
like
institutional
funding.
They
hire
developers
to
work
on
open
source
projects
right.
So
it's
it's
also
like
a
complicated
like
mesh
of
like
funding
and
so
open
collective
itself
as
a
platform.
We
are
not
ready
to
show
all
of
that
transparently,
because
we
are
at
the
core.
We
are
a
ledger.
B
We
show
the
transactions
that
happen.
We
don't
show
transactions
that
don't
happen
right
and,
and
we
don't
know
we
don't
have
like
the
compliance
tooling,
and
certainly
linux
is
not
going
to
want
to
collaborate.
Lf,
like
certainly
won't
want
to
collaborate
with
us
in
showing
their
numbers
right,
because
there's
not
a
lot
of
appetite
for
for
transparency
there,
and
so
I
mean
we
do
what
we
can.
We
would
love
to
see
more
of
this.
We
would
love
to
see
something
like
the
open
source
like
corporate.
B
You
know
open
source
sustainability
index
or
open
source
funding
index
to
take
place.
Some
some
companies
are,
you
know
they
also
don't
want
to
be
super
public
about
it,
because
they
always
get
called
out
on
how
small
their
contributions
are,
which,
like
you
know
them.
You
know
they
should
do
better,
but
but
it's
also
like
a
reality
where,
like
we
also
do
not
want
to
antagonize
like
the
funding
that
some
of
the
projects
are
getting
by
going
out
super
hard
against
companies.
That
should
be
giving
more
right.
B
For
you
know
sustainable
companies
or
fair
trade
companies,
or
you
know-
and
we
should
also
have
like
a
standard
for
what
it
means
to
be
a
good
corporate
citizen,
and
that
is
like
an
industry-wide
kind
of
effort
that
I
think
would
would
really
make
a
lot
of
progress
towards.
You
know
the
goal
that
you
are
bringing
up
that
I
think
is
like
it
should
be
the
norm
right.
B
We
should
all
show
that
very
clearly,
so
one
thing
that
we've
been
trying
to
do
is
to
create
open
source
funds
inside
of
the
open
source,
collective,
and
so
an
open
source
fund
essentially
is
where
you
know
again.
Chrome
says
like
okay,
I'm
gonna
give
you
two
million
dollars
for
this
year.
We're
gonna
put
it
in
this
fund
and
then
from
here
we're
gonna,
give
funding
to
collectives,
but
we're
also
gonna
give
funding
to
another
other
organizations
right,
because
the
pitch
to
them
is
like
look.
B
It's
a
lot
easier
for
you
to
cut
a
two
million
dollar
check
with
one
procurement
process
and
one
purchasing
order
to
a
non-profit
than
to
turn
around
and
having
to
give
five
thousand
dollars
here,
20,
here,
etc.
Right
so
we'll
we'll
manage
the
fund
for
you,
and
then
we
can
spread
that
out
a
lot
more
efficiently
and
a
lot
faster
right
and
so
by
growing
the
funds.
That
is
something
that
we've
been
growing
a
lot
year
and
year
by
growing
the
funds.
A
A
Challenge
this
vision
a
little
bit
because
because
if
that
happens
then
so
you
you
said
before,
like
open
collective
is
a
company,
it's
a
it's
an
inc
in
the
us.
So
after
all,
then
it
will
be
a
monopoly
situation
where
open
collective
has
all
the
power
and
all
the
power
is
centralized
in
a
single
place
by
a
few.
You
know
like
leaded
led
by
a
few
people
and
and
so
on.
B
A
Yeah
exactly
so,
so
that's
the
thing
that
that
this
kind
of
things
could
happen
right
like
you
can
change
your
mind
or
or
you
can
simply
something
can
happen
to
you.
I
wish
that
nothing
bad
happens
to
you,
but
this
can
happen,
but
but
this
can
happen
and
then
other
people
can
take
over
and
then
the
vision
is
not
the
same
anymore
and
so
on.
A
B
And
so
so
the
question
now
is
like
how
on
earth
do
we
make
that
happen
right?
How
on
earth
do
we
transfer
a
privately
owned
like
corporation
from
you,
know
the
current
cap
table
to
the
community
right
and
who
is
the
community
because
you
have
a
collective
community?
That's
another
question
right
like
it's
like
thousands
of
collectives
like
many
thousands
of
collective
many,
many
thousands
of
donors,
380
non-profits
right.
B
But
then
it's
like
microsoft
rules,
I'm
sure
now
microsoft
is
lovely
right,
but
open
source
was
the
dev
evil.
You
know
for
them,
or
you
know
it
was
a
cancer
for
them
not
so
long
ago.
So
and
there
is
no
control
like
the
community,
just
have
any
control
about
like
what
happens.
If
the
you
know
new
corporation
decides
that
oh
we're
just
going
to
sunset
this
feature
because
it
doesn't
make
money
and
it's
the
thing
that
is
keeping
communities
going
right,
you
have
no
control
over
that,
but
that's
one
path.
B
B
So
so
that
is
not
that's
not
what's
happening
here
and,
and
it
won't
be
right,
it's
not
the
type
of
company
that
we
built,
and
so
what
do
we
do,
and
so
exit
to
community
is
a
way
for
the
community
to
in
a
way,
buy
open
collective
of
the
current
owners.
If
you
want
and
to
buy
the
the
shares,
so
there's
a
gazillion
ways
of
doing
that.
None
of
them
have
proven
yet,
but
it's
it's
or
none
of
them
are
easy.
B
That's
one
option:
another
option
is
to
do
a
dao
and
turn
shares
into
tokens
and
distribute
tokens.
Another
option
is
to
build
a
co-op
right
to
transform
open
collective
into
like
some
sort
of
global
co-op
of
I
don't
know
folks
around
the
world,
so
yeah,
that's
what
we're
thinking
that's
the
path
we
are
we're
in.
We
want
to
figure
out
a
mechanism
to
transfer
ownership
to
the
community
and
distribute
revenue
with
the
community
in
a
way
that
is
fair
and
more
or
less
sane.
A
B
Complicated
with
a
with
a
project
like
open
collective
that
like
expand
around
the
world
right
and
also
that
the
community
is
a
combination
of
non-entities
like
collectives
right
like
non-legal
entities,
individuals,
donors,
not-for-profits
right,
so
it's
it's!
It
has
very
difficult,
very
diverse
stakeholders
and
that's
what
makes
it
so
beautiful
right.
But
at
the
same
time
it's
like
hard
to
articulate
and
exit
to
community
that
takes
into
account
the
whole
span
of
it
right.
Yeah.
A
A
B
B
B
Yes,
but
you
you
can
have
like
the
board
of
trustees
or
an
oversee
like
you,
you
can
issue
shares
to
people
in
different
countries
as
well
right.
But
what
again?
How
are
you
gonna?
Who
are
you
gonna
issue,
shares
to
you
know
the
trust
owns
the
shares
and
then
the
community
owns
the
trust
or
is
the
beneficiary
of
the
trust,
and
so
so
there
might
be
like
this.
Decoupling
of
you
know,
governance
kind
of
rights.
B
A
B
A
I
mean
I
mean
ipo
and,
and
you
know,
and
and
all
these
things
that
have
been
around
for
a
while
already
are
still
not
perfect,
so
so
yeah
who
cares?
If
it's
not
perfect
like?
If
we
only
consume
perfect
things,
then
we
will
not
be
consuming
anything
because
yeah,
what's
perfection
after
all,
so
so
yeah
well
we're
over
time
already.
A
But
I
think
this
these
things
are
actually
pretty
important
and
we,
as
developers
tend
to
avoid
having
conversations
about
it
and
and
that
which
is
normal
like
we
dedicate
the
code
and
like
we
said
before,
right
and
so
so
yeah
and
I
think
it's
pretty
cool
that
developers
all
around
the
world
get
to
hear
from
you
and
from
the
upping
collective
team.
What
you're
doing
and
what's
next
about
it
so
so
yeah
thanks
a
lot
cool.
A
To
me
no
problem,
we
like
to
run
here,
I'm
thinking
at
last.
Actually
that's
actually
the
the
the
purpose
of
this
right.
The
purpose
of
this
format
is
that
we
just
jump
here
and
we
don't
know
what's
going
to
happen,
I
only
had
a
few
for
the
first
time
by
the
way,
pre-recorded
questions
or
you
know,
and
that's
the
the
only
thing
that
is
prepared
beforehand,
but
the
rest
is
just
free
flow.