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From YouTube: Backdrop Design & Usability meetnig May 7th 2020
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C
B
Perfect
today
is
may
7th,
just
in
case
anyone
watches
all
of
the
meetings
and
wants
to
know
what
which
one
is
which
and
we
should
all
introduce
each
other
as
well
or
maybe
our
ourselves.
So
maybe
tim
do
you
want
to
give
us
a
name
location,
something
exciting
snippet.
C
And
do
you
want
to
go?
First?
Am
I
still
unmuted?
Yes,
I
am
hi,
I'm
tim.
I
am
coming
to
you
from
deerwood
minnesota
this
this
year.
It
seems
and
still
still
quarantined
in
the
north
woods
and
have
been
very
unproductive
and
distracted
lately.
So
I
haven't
been
doing
much
backdrop
stuff.
C
A
B
I
really
like
the
enthusiasm,
even
if
it
involves
hand
waving,
so
I
didn't
mind
how
about
joseph
you
want
to
introduce
yourself.
I
am.
B
Great,
I
am
jen
lampton
from
oakland,
california.
I
don't
have
anything
super
exciting
to
share
so
we'll
just
move
on.
First
item
in
the
agenda
is
the
design
theme
user
experience
initiative
update.
So
today
is
the
day
that
we
are
discussing
initiative
proposals
in
the
developer
meeting,
which
is
in
about
half
an
hour.
So
I'm
really
excited
about
the
design
theme
initiative.
B
I
don't
know
if
everyone
is
going
to
agree
with
it
and
we're
going
to
decide
if
it's
one
that
goes
to
the
pmc
but
fingers
crossed
it
is
I
don't
know
if
we
have
any
updates
since
the
last
time
we
chatted
about
it
in
this
meeting,
but
maybe
luke
you
could
give
us
sort
of
a
recap
of
what
that
is
in
case
someone
watching
this
meeting
didn't
watch
the
last
one
we
talked
about
it.
A
Sure,
there's
actually
two
levels
of
updates
there.
There's
updates
that
I've
made
and
there's
updates
that
I've
thought
about,
but
haven't
made
yet.
But
I
can
talk
about
right
now,
but
the
the
initial
proposal
that
that
we
had
as
of
two
weeks
ago
was
that
I
thought
I
I
proposed
that
we
should
include
ready
to
go
themes
with
backdrop,
so
that
somebody
who
doesn't
know
how
to
theme
either
doesn't
know
the
technology
involved
in
theme.
A
Doesn't
you
know,
understand
css,
html,
javascript
and
php
sufficient
to
to
do
the
theme
or-
or
somebody
who
you
know,
maybe
knows
all
that
stuff,
but
it
doesn't
doesn't
know
whether
to
make
things
red
or
blue,
or
you
know
what
point
size
to
make
things
like.
There's
there's
a
considerable
both
technical
and
visual
skill
level.
That's
required
to
either
create
a
theme
from
scratch,
or
even
customize
the
thing.
A
So
I
was
proposing
that
we
shouldn't
have
that
as
a
barrier
to
entry
for
the
backdrop
day
that
we
should
provide
a
handful
of
ready
to
go
out
of
the
box.
Solutions
where
you
could
just
you
know
make
do
nothing
more
complicated
than
just
picking
from
a
limited
set
of
choices.
You
know
a
b
or
c
start
with
that
and
see
how
you
feel
and-
and
they
should
look
different
it
shouldn't
just
be
just
one.
There
should
be
a
couple
so
that
people,
even
if
you
don't
know
all
that
stuff,
can
understand.
A
Oh
okay,
you
know
it
could
be
blue
jeans
or
it
could
be
a
tuxedo
right.
Like
there's
different
ways,
things
can
look
so
the
update
that
that
I
made
a
few
days
ago
to
it
is
I
renamed
it
from.
A
It
was
originally
that
suggested
that
several
ready-to-use
themes
should
be
included
with
backdrop,
and
people
objected
that
that
might
you
know
bloat
the
code
size
and
there
were
some
other
issues.
So
so
I
I
changed
that
to
to
more
the
the
functional
language
that
that
there
that
you
should
be
able
to
have
a
good
looking.
I
forget
what
phrasing
I
used
for
it,
but
I
I
got
a
little
bit
over
the
the
subject
line,
but
I
think
the
the
upshot
is
that
users
site
builders
should
be
able
to.
A
The
change
I
was
going
to
make
today
was
actually
more
that
I'm
still
you
know,
I
I
guess
are
we
voting
on
it
in
the
next
hour.
Is
that
when
the
decision
gets
made
or.
B
Well,
in
the
next
hour
we're
going
to
discuss
all
of
the
proposals
we
have
and
decide
on
which
ones
to
escalate
to
the
pmc
for
a
vote.
So
I'm
not
going
to
vote
in
the
meeting,
but
we're
going
to
chat
about
it
and
what
there
were
probably
a
bunch
that
everybody
agrees
on
and
then
a
bunch
that
we're
like
meh
and
then
we'll
take
the
ones
we
agree
on
and
take
them
upstream
for
an
actual
vote.
A
Okay
well.
Well,
then,
then,
we
still
have
a
little
time.
You
know
to
to
make
the
presentation
and
idea
match
the
concept
behind
it,
which
is
it's
really
a
functional
concept.
It's
not
so
much
how
it
gets
done,
but
the
the
end
result
is
is
looking
for
ways
so
that
so
that
somebody
who
is
you
know,
merely
a
site
builder,
somebody
who
just
is
only
knowledgeable
about
the
content
that
they're
bringing
still
still
has
options,
and
now
now
we've
talked
about
other
things.
A
That
kind
of
extend
from
this
about
the
the
idea
of
of
a
a
themed
testing
facility
in
either.
D
A
Or
standard
sites
and
team
standardizations-
and
you
know
there-
there's
a
couple
of
other
hooks
into
to
try
to
make
motion
on
the
on
the
same
basic
problem.
But
but
if
we
can
get
you
know
we
get
one
actually
in
motion.
I
I
think
that
that
moves
the
ball
forward
for
everything.
B
So
the
one
thing
that
I
really
loved
that
you
said
is
that
custom
themes
should
not
be
a
barrier
for
entry
to
using
backup
cms,
and
I
think
that
or
the
ability
to
create
custom
themes,
and
I
think
that
that
is
sort
of
the
big
takeaway
there
and
all
of
the
other
things
we're
going
to
be
working
on
working
on
can
go
around
that.
So,
like.
D
B
Need
to
make
it
easier
for
people
to
put
on
a
theme
for
their
site
that
works
the
way
they
think
it
works.
We
need
to
make
it
easier
for
them
to
demo
those
themes
ahead
of
time.
We
need
to
make
it
easier
for
them
to
customize
that
theme
once
they
have
it
all
of
those
things
kind
of
fit
together
into
that,
like
reduce
the
barrier
to
entry.
B
Overall,
I
don't
know
if
it's
a
desire
of
necessity,
maybe-
and
I
think
that
that
that
sounds
really
great-
and
I
think
that
I
I
personally
am
really
interested
in
working
on
that
one.
So
I
hope
that
you're
good.
A
Well,
I
I
think
I
think
your
phrase
there
that
maybe
I
you
know
spewed
out
but
that
you've
focused
in
on
of
of
reduce
the
barrier
to
entry.
I
mean
that
really
is
the
the
key
concept
you
know.
Even
if
we
we
like
programming,
we
like
working
these
things
ourselves
it
it
just
makes
it
hard
for
for
user,
I
mean
I'll
I'll.
Do
a
metaphor
with
a
car
like
even
somebody
that
that
likes
to
work
on
cars
doesn't
expect
that
people
who
drive
cars
should
should
know
how
to
change
the
oil.
A
C
Well,
do
we
is
there
is:
are
there
other
things
we
want
to
talk
about
or
like?
C
Could
we
try
and
flesh
this
out
a
bit
the
actual
proposal,
because
it
is
still
a
bit
vague
and
I
mean
I
think
I
appreciate
the
change
you
made
in
the
title
luke,
but
I
think
so
by
the
way,
the
current
title
that
sort
of
luke
has
is
bankrupt,
usable
without
requiring
custom
theming,
and
I
admire
that
goal
and
that's
something
I
mean
that's
sort
of
been
my
personal
initiative
as
well
in
that
kind
of
a
broad
sense.
C
On
the
other
hand,
that
sounds
fairly
abstract,
and
I
you
know
I
would
you
know
I
like
the
idea
of
a
negative,
that's
some
sort
of
in
between
that
isn't
necessarily
core
themes,
but
just
make
more
ready-to-use
themes
available
and
we
wouldn't
have
to
specify
core
or
contrib
to
me
that
feels
a
little
bit
more
specific
and
actionable.
This
make
backdrop
usable
without
requiring
custom.
Theming
seems
really
big
and
broad
and
like
I
don't,
could
go
in
a
lot
of
directions.
B
I
think
that's
good,
though,
for
an
initiative,
and
maybe
this
is
something
that
like
we
need
to
figure
out
as
a
like
as
a
pmc
like
what
an
initiative
is,
but
I
would
want
thinking
about
like
how
how
they
work
for
drupal.
I
would
want
an
initiative
to
be
something
that
will
continue
to
have
issues
related
to
it
for
the
next
x
number
of
years,
and
so,
if
it
was
something
like
put
x
theme
in
core,
that
might
be
a
lot
of
work,
but
it's
it's
very
specific
and
it
would
have
an
end.
B
But
if
it's
something
like
continue
to
reduce
the
barrier
to
entry
around
theming,
that
could
go
on
forever
and
so
that
to
me
seems
like
a
good
thing
for
an
initiative,
and
I
don't
know
if
we
need
to
have
any
specifics
for
it
to
be
adopted
as
an
initiative.
I
think
the
fact
that
we
already
have
good
ideas
about
things
we
want
to
do
is
really
helpful
because
it'll
be
a
look.
This
is
an
issue
that's
actionable
rather
than
like.
B
We
want
to
make
everything
better,
which
is
you
know
a
little
too
big
but
yeah.
I
don't
know
I
I
would
like
to
spend
some
time
working
on
the
proposal.
I
think
it
would
be
good
to
make
it
read
more
so
that
you're
comfortable
with
it,
but
I
know
there's
one
issue
that
we
wanted
to
talk
about
today
in
this
meeting.
Maybe
we
should
do
that
first
and
then
change
gears.
Does
that
sound
good?
Okay?
So
this
is
something
that
peter
asked
to
have
added
to
the
agenda.
B
It
is
issue
number
1140,
and
this
came
up
back
in
1
14
114
was
out.
We
committed
a
fix
to
both
114
and
113
that
tried
to
solve
a
problem
with
in
backdraft
we
have
the
ability
to
float
an
image,
which
is
something
that
you
couldn't
do
in
drupal.
B
So
in
the
field
configuration
you
can
say,
image
on
the
left
image
on
the
right
and
it'll
move
it
right,
which
is
great,
but
in
the
area,
the
surrounding
area,
we
have
a
clear
fix
class
on
it,
which
was
supposed
to
fix
the
rendering
of
whatever
comes
next
in
a
list
or
on
the
page,
and
in
some
cases
that
was
not
a
good
enough
solution
for
the
floating
image.
B
If
you
had
other
fields
that
came
after
it,
they
might
end
up
and
inside
the
wrapper
might
end
up
looking
funny,
and
so
we
implemented
a
css
solution
which
affected
the
front
end
of
websites
that
one
deployed
broke
a
whole
bunch
of
websites
that
were
live,
and
so
a
bunch
of
us
that
had
websites
that
were
broken
when
we
deployed
that
next
release
had
to
go
and
implement
a
bunch
of
css
solutions
to
the
pixel
and
core,
and
we
decided
in
the
issue,
queue
that
this
problem
was
a
big
enough
change,
that
it
needed
to
be
reverted.
B
And
we
decided
that
people
like
myself,
who
had
already
implemented
a
css
fix.
The
revert
of
the
change,
would
not
break
our
sites
again
and
so
sort
of
like
consensus,
okay.
Well,
we
heard
it
yay
and
then
nothing.
B
And
so
now
we're
running
into
these
problems,
so
people
who
are
upgrading
from
drupal
7
are
hitting
issues
with
this
particular
css
change
as
well.
So
it
seems
like
it's
having
more
problems
than
just
affecting
what
we
thought
we
were
fixing
in
backdrop
and
so
bwp
and
just
wanted
to
ask
like
what.
What
is
the
process
on
doing
the
river,
especially
now
that
we're
two
versions
later?
Do
people
still
feel
that
it
is
safe
to
revert
a
commit
that
was
made
a
long
time
ago?
B
Or
is
it
something
that
we
should
just
say,
everybody
who
has
run
into
this
problem
originally
has
had
to
work
around
it?
Maybe
we
just
continue
to
make
new
people
who
run
into
it
have
to
work
around
it.
B
I
I
wanted
to
get
feedback
from
people
in
this
design
meeting
on
whether
you
think
that
would
have
an
impact,
one
thing.
So,
for
the
two
sites
that
I
reported
that
ran
into
the
issue,
they
were
the
first
two
I
updated.
They
ran
into
the
problem
right
away,
so
I
posted
screenshots
of
them
on
there.
I
reverted
the
commit
on
those
and
none
of
my
changes
needed
to
be
adjusted
at
all,
so
it
was
fine.
B
I
don't
know
if
the
way
that
I
implemented
a
fix
is
going
to
be
the
same
way
that
everybody
else
implemented
a
fix,
and
I
don't
know
if
there
are
going
to
be
any
changes
that
would
be
necessary
from
reverting
that.
B
But
my
thought
is
that
I
would
much
rather
have
it
be
easy
for
new
people
running
into
using
backdrop
to
not
encounter
that
problem,
then,
for
those
of
us
who
have
already
worked
around
it
and
understand
that
exactly
what
the
issue
is
and
have
some
knowledge
of
it
be
able
to
make
a
change
in
order
to
get
it
to
work
back
so
rather
than
making
new
people
have
to
learn
about
the
problem,
I
would
rather
make
people
already
know
about.
The
problem.
B
C
Well,
I
actually
don't
recall
running
into
this.
I
think
you
might
be
seeing
my
comment
I
made
in
the
issue
queue,
and
that
was
really
just
because
I
think
that
was
just
because
I
was
going
through
the
issue
queue
and
saw
like
hey
we're
going
to
re
revert
this,
and
nothing
was
happening
more
me
being
helpful
than
actually
dealing
with
the
issue.
B
Do
you
have
any
thoughts
on
in
general
front
facing
breaking
css
change,
getting
reverted.
C
C
I
I
got
it
yeah.
I
mean
I
guess
if
that
is
a
d7
migration
thing,
that
would
be
an
argument
for
doing
it.
I
mean
I
I
could
see
if
it
was
just
breaking
things
that
people
had
done
in
backdrop
before,
and
it's
been
this
long.
There
might
be
an
argument
that
it's
no
longer.
You
know
that
we
missed
the
opportunity
yeah
to
fix
it,
but
if
it's
breaking
d7
sites,
then
we
should
probably
figure
that
out.
B
B
Where
do
you
want
your
image
displayed
and
when
we
introduced
that
feature,
we
also
introduced
the
possibility
of
if
you
float
an
image
left
or
right
the
text
underneath
it
might
start
to
behave
oddly,
and
so
we
were
attempting
to
fix
that,
but
in
fixing
that
we
broke
a
bunch
of
stuff
that
doesn't
have
anything
to
do
with
that,
and
so
when
it
was
tested,
we
tested
it
against
core,
but
not
against,
like
a
bunch
of
live
sites
that
already
had
a
bunch
of
fields
in
places,
so
we
didn't
notice
that
it
caused
other
repercussion
problems,
but
after
we
deployed
it,
we
were
like
oh
oops.
B
Yes,
this
is
going
to
be
an
issue
and
there
were
a
couple
of
people
that
recommended
like
more
changes
that
we
could
make.
That
would
fix
it
in
some
instances,
but
because
we've
already
made
one
like
oopsie,
we
thought,
rather
than
continuing
to
try
and
fix
it
and
maybe
make
more
problems.
It
would
be
smarter
to
go
backwards
to
a
thing
that
we
know
didn't
have
the
same
kind
of
issues.
B
So
essentially,
if
we
were
to
revert
the
change,
we
would
end
up
back
in
a
state
where,
if
you've
load
an
image-
and
you
have
text
underneath
it-
it
might
wrap
oddly
around
the
image
and
you'd
have
to
fix
that.
So
this
is
something
that
anyone
who
already
had
a
live
backdrop
site
had
already
fixed
anyone.
Who's
coming
from
drupal7
had
run
into
this
issue,
floated
their
own
image
and
fixed
it
also.
B
So,
if
you're
upgrading
a
theme,
it
would
have
already
been
resolved,
but
new
people
creating
a
new
backdrop
site
might
run
into
problems
if
they
try
and
align
an
image
left
or
right
and
the
text
underneath
it
wraps
funny.
B
And
the
kinds
of
problems
we're
seeing
with
the
fix
were
also
really
bizarre,
where
I
think
that
for
someone
who's
familiar
with
css,
you
know
even
looking
at
that.
It's
a
little
weird
to
be
like.
Why
does
half
my
content
just
disappear
from
the
page.
B
D
B
Might
be
comfortable
putting
in
a
little
like
clear
on
some
field
somewhere,
but
they're
not
going
to
be
comfortable
with
fixing
the
kind
of
mess
that
we
just
created
by
fixing
the
bug
in
a
strange
way.
So
I
think
that,
just
in
terms
of
the
solution
from
getting
from
something's,
a
little
wonky
with
my
website
to
it's
fixed
is
going
to
be
a
much
shorter
path.
B
If
we
go
back
with
the
original
bug,
rather
than
the
new
book
that
we've
introduced
now-
and
I
don't
know
why
I
don't
know
why
the
solution
we
implemented
does
that
it
could
be
like
a
very
strange
like
new
browser
thing
but
yeah.
It
was
something
that
it
took
me
a
really
long
time
to
figure
out
why
half
the
content
of.
B
B
Okay
yeah,
it
sounds
like
it
we're
still
sort
of
of
the
same
opinion.
We
were
originally,
and
I
think
that
at
this
point
we
should
kick
it
to
a
core
committer
to
weigh
in,
and
I
know.
D
B
A
court
committer,
which
is
why
he
asked
for
us
to
talk
about
it
because
he
didn't
feel
confident
being
the
one
to
make
the
decision.
Maybe
we
should
have
him
talk
about
it
with
nate
or
herb
or
jeff
and
see
what
they
think
about
risk
of
reverting
and
change
this
late,
but
it
sounds
like
in
terms
of
those
of
us
who
are
going
to
use
the
solution,
we're
fine
with
it
being
rewarded.
A
Mean
it
it
ties,
then,
just
in
terms
of
making
me
believe
in
in
the
you
know,
ready
to
go
theme
initiative
thing,
because,
because
it
highlights
how
hard
this
stuff
is
yeah,
you
know
when,
when
I
first
put
together
my
my
first
drupal
site
a
decade
ago,
everything
went
swimmingly
until
it
got
like
the
theming
and
dance,
and
and
that's
when
I
was
like
holy
cow.
This
is
so
much
harder
than
I
thought
it
was
going
to
be.
B
Yeah-
and
I
was
just
thinking
about
that
too,
as
we
were
talking
about
it
in
terms
of
like
well
we're
going
to
require
that
you
know
at
least
this
tiny
bit
of
css
in
order
to
be
able
to
move
your
things
are
half
it
doesn't
sound
great,
but
it
is
a
little
bit
of
an
edge
case
where
this
problem
appears.
It's
probably
why,
like
joseph
and
tim,
haven't
run
into
it,
and
I
think
it
was
like
a
very
specific
combination
of
like
you
need
to
have
one.
B
You
know
field
after
another
field
that
doesn't
have
a
wrapper
on
it
or
something
like
that
and
most
of
the
time,
when
you
add
two
fields
in
a
row,
the
second
one
has
a
wrapper
on
it
and
it'll.
You
know
work
with
you
know
an
image
and
whatever
will
it'll
be
okay,
but
under
some
circumstances
you
can
get
it
to
a
point
where
it
gets
a
little
wonky,
and
so
I
think
I
would
rather
have
the
edge
case
oddness
than
the.
I
have
no
idea.
B
What's
going
on
with
my
site,
something
weird
happened
in
css
oddness
that
we've
got
now,
which
I
think
might
might
even
be
more
consistent
than
the
original
problem,
but
yeah
it's
one
of
those
things.
I
wouldn't
expect
somebody
who
is
not
a
front-end
developer
to
be
able
to
go
in
and
fix
that
like.
If
you
just
install
the
backdrop
site,
I
had
to
figure
that
out.
That
would
be
not
ideal.
B
Okay,
so
that
was
the
only
urgent
issue.
There
are
a
bunch
of
other
usability
issues.
If
you're
interested
in
usability,
you
can
check
the
issue
queue
for
any
issue
with
square
bracket
capital.
U
capital
x
square
brackets.
B
If
you
are
particularly
interested
in
design
issues,
we
have
a
tag
on
them,
which
I
think
is
just
the
word
design.
You
can
look
at
those
also,
but
I
think
we're
going
to
use
the
rest
of
our
time
to
talk
about
the
design
theme
initiative.
C
But
for
let
me
just
say
one
thing
for
the
record,
which
is
about
the
timeline
right
now,
because
design
and
usability
issues
could
still
get
into
the
next
release
right,
which
is
in
a
week
so
for
anybody
who's
watching
this
and
is
interested
in
these
things.
Now
is
a
great
time
to
to
get
designer
bug
or
usability
bug
fixes
in
because
we
they
we
can
get
them
into
the
next
release
very
soon.
B
That's
great,
thank
you,
okay,
so
back
to
the
initiative
proposal,
I,
like
the
title,
also
the
new
title.
I
think
in
terms
of
making
updates
to
the
proposal
itself.
Do
you
have
any
specific
recommendations,
tim
based
on
your
reading
or.
C
Well,
I
I
wanted
to
say
two
things,
one
of
which
is
that
you
know
I
agree
with
a
lot
of
things
you
were
saying
earlier.
I
think
my
view
of
initiatives
is
that
they
could
go
on
for
years,
but
that
they
could
also
be
very.
They
could
be
fairly
specific
and
limited.
It
could
be.
You
know,
to
bring
a
specific
feature
into
core
and
it
could
be
that
that
initiative
is
over
in
six
months.
I
think
that's
legitimate
too.
C
My
concern
about
the
sort
of
this
title
about
just
making
it
easier
make
bankrupt
usable
without
requiring
custom
theming.
As
you
you
know
you
mentioned
like,
like
fix
all
the
things.
That's
too
broad,
and
this
almost
this
isn't
that
broad.
But
to
me
it
feels
like
it
has
that
too
broadness
to
it.
It's
like
I,
it
could
like
a
lot
of
the
stuff.
C
As
I
said,
I'm
interested
in
this
topic,
and
and
and
I
define
exactly
this
as
something
that
I've
been
trying
to
work
on,
but
for
me
I've
been
trying
to
work
on
in
a
way
that
has
nothing
to
do
with
with
theme
with
the
themes,
and
so
there's
like
these
are
two
completely
different
directions.
This
could
go
and
neither
of
them
are
bad,
but
you
know
it's
like.
C
Is
it
too
vague?
That's
all
I'm
asking,
and
I
you
know
I
could
live
with
this
as
a
title.
I'm
not
there
isn't
a
clear
definition
of
done
right.
Well,
I
don't
know
that
it
needs
a
clear
definition
of
done,
but
I
would
at
least
like
like,
if
I'm
going,
to
sign
up
to
participate
in
initiative
to
me.
It's
like
this
feels
like
it
could
go
in
a
lot
of
different
directions.
I
don't
know
what
I'm
signing
up
for
here.
C
Right,
like
you
know,
making
making
more
themes
of
you
know
easy
to
use
themes
available
for
backdrop.
That
is,
is
also
not
really
a
done
point
right
that
could
go
on
for
for
years,
but
on
the
other
hand,
I
know
what
it
means
when
I
read
it
and
this
I
don't
quite
there's
a
lot.
C
Right,
it
might
have
went
a
little
bit
too
far,
but
but
maybe
not
you
know
I
again,
I'm
interested
in
this
topic.
I
can
live
with
that.
I'm
just
throwing
that
out,
as
is
something
that
sort
of
a
gut
reaction
to
it
as
an
addiction.
B
From
reading
it
that
the
takeaway
for
the
actual
proposal
is
like
make
three
good
themes,
period,
okay,
and
so
I
think
that
maybe
that
would
be
a
good
place
to
start,
and
we
could
note
some
of
these
other
things
that
we
need
in
order
to
do
that
as
part
of
the
process.
So
you
could
say
something
like
okay.
Well,
the
goal
is
to
make
three
themes
that
you
can
just
put
on
and
see
what
your
site
looks
like
with.
Whatever
I'm
you
know,
you
originally
recommended
those
going
in
core.
B
We
had
people
who
said
they
should
be
in
contrib.
I
don't
really
care
where
they
are.
We
have
a
pretty
good,
install
process
working
trip.
I
think
the
problem
is
that
once
you
put
them
on
a
site,
they're,
not
necessarily
going
to
look
good,
and
so
what
we
need
to
do
is
take
the
themes
that
are
like
done
and
take
them
to
that
point.
B
Where
they're,
it's
going
to
give
a
really
good
impression
when
people
try
them
on,
and
I
think
that
that
might
be
a
good
place
to
start
where
it
will
be
like.
We
need
to
have
three
very
solid
examples
of
different
themes
that
look
good
on
a
variety
of
backdrop
sites
and
in
order
to
get
there,
we
need
to
make
the
themes,
that's
obviously
pretty
clear,
but
we
also
need
a
way
to
determine
whether
a
theme
is
going
to
look
good
on
a
wide
variety
of
backdrop
sites.
B
We
need
a
way
to
promote
that
theme
onto
the
backdrop
site
that
you
have
now,
so
that
would
be
the
promoted
modules
feature
that
we're
working
on
now,
so
that
when
you
go
there,
you
know
which
one
you
should
try
on
to
get
the
good
impression.
There's
a
bunch
of
other
stuff.
That
kind
of
rolls
up
into
that.
But
I
think
that
if
we
can
maybe
focus
that
on
three
things
make
backdrop
have
a
stronger
first
impression
that.
D
A
So
so
I
mean
in
terms
of
the
initiative
process.
It
is
there
potentially
kind
of
a
two
step
approach
to
it
where,
where
you
identify
the
problem,
you're
trying
to
solve
and
then
and
then
once
we've
agreed
that
okay
we're
going
to
try
to
solve
the
problem
rather
than
launch
into
it
with
you
know,
totally
open
scope.
The
next
step
is
okay.
You
know
now
now
we
define
what
the
what
the
mvp
at
this
point
is
going
to
be.
B
Yeah
I
mean,
I
think,
once
we
decide
on
what
the
initiatives
are
and
that'll
probably
be
based
on
proposals.
It'll
be
up
to
the
initiative,
lead
to
help
sort
of
guide
the
next
steps
of
the
process.
So
I
really
like
what
you're
saying
in
terms
of
like
first,
let's
pick
a
thing
and
then
let's
like
make
some
actionable
items
out
of
it
and
move
towards
them,
but
there
it
might
be
different
for
each
initiative,
and
I
think
that
you
know
if
gregory
has
a
like
fix,
all
the
tiny
bugs
initiative
or
something
that.
B
Different
than
you
know
fix
the
underlying
problem
with
things
in
cms's
problem,
and
I
think
that's,
okay,
all
right!
That's
why
we
have
proposals,
because
we
want
to
know
what
people
want
to
do.
So
if
you
make
a
proposal
even
if
it's
different
from
all
the
other
ones,
I
think
that's
so
valuable.
D
So
I
have
a
question:
what
would
be
a
differentiating
factor
between
two
themes?.
D
Right
like
so,
we
have
in
drupal
7.
When
you
go
look
for
themes
it
would
oftentimes
be.
This
is
a
three
column
layout
theme
with
blue
highlights
that
uses
this
particular
font
yeah,
but
with
the
layout
system
and
the
color
module,
and
then
the
font
your
face
module
you
all
three
of
those
things
are
gone
as
far
as
differentiating
factors
for
themes.
B
Yeah
I
mean
I,
so
I
think
that
we're
going
to
run
into
that
if
we
pick
any
differentiating
factor,
there's
going
to
be
a
contrib
module
that'll,
let
you
undo
it
just
because
of
the
world
we
happen
to
live
in,
but
I
think
that
layouts
are
definitely
no
longer
a
thing
because
that's
like
a
core
feature
that
we
support
and
the
contributing
should,
in
theory,
look
good
with
all
10
core
layouts
in
one
way
or
another,
and
I
don't
know
that
the
color,
like
most
themes,
aren't
gonna
have
color
support.
B
I
I'm
not
a
designer,
so
I'm
probably
not
using
the
right
words
for
this,
but
in
terms
of
like
my
experience
with
wordpress
like
you
can
pick
a
theme
like
you
can
search
for
green
and
then,
when
you
download
the
green
theme,
you
can
make
it
purple
or
I
mean
that's
just
it's
just
like
a
it's
a
thing
that
I
don't
know
you
it.
It
seems
like
the
color
is
sort
of
not
really
that
important.
It's
more
about
the
like
impression.
B
It
gives
you
and
as
a
non-designer,
I
don't
really
know
how
to
describe
that.
But
I
think,
like
I
don't
know,
I
have
some
things
that
are
like
super,
like
parallaxy
and
like
a
lot
of
animations
and
javascript
and
stuff
that
I
really
dislike
and
try
and
remove
when
I
first
get
them,
then
there's
other
ones
that
like
this
is
just
like,
gives
you
eight
ways
to
display
your
content
and
that
and
that's
kind
of
it,
and
then
it
doesn't
have
a
lot
of
you
know.
There's
maybe
white
space
or
not.
A
Well,
I
I
mean
for
what
it's
worth
I
I
have
found
you
know
when
looking
for
themes
myself
when
trying
to
solve
this
problem
as
a
user,
when
I've
seen
theme
descriptions,
even
when
I
find
ones
that
aren't
based
themes,
I
still
find
it
frustrating
like
you
know.
This
is
a
blog
theme
like
what.
How
does
that
mean
so,
but
the
kind
of
things
you
know
to
give
an
example
of
of
three
or
four
themes
that
I
could
imagine
coming
through
in
backdrop.
I
I
imagine
it
in
terms
of
of
audience
right.
A
So
so,
if
you
know
to
to
take
a
couple
of
buzzwords
you
might
have,
you
might
have
one
that's.
I
should
have
had
the
buzzword
in
my
mind
a
second
ago,
what's
the
oh,
like
the
flat
look
that
google
has
the
material
material
design
right
like
there's,
there's
the
flat
material
design?
I
can
imagine
a
theme.
That's
like
the
opposite
of
that
that
that's
you
know.
3D
windows,
95,
shadows
and
highlights
look.
A
I
I
can
imagine
one.
That's
skeuomorphic,
that
has
you
know,
wood
grain
and
marble
and
you
know
leaves
and
things.
I
can
imagine
a
look.
That's
intended
for
little
kids,
the
the
features
you
know
teddy
bears
and
crayons
and
big
fonts
and
comfortable
things.
I
I
can
imagine
one
that's
designed
to
look
boring
for
you
know
your
corporate
saying
that.
That's
you
know:
shades
of
gray,
one
on
white,
so
so
just
a
couple
of
options
there.
A
So
you
get
a
range
of
that
and
and
then
with
that,
as
a
baseline,
then
then
we
might
be
able
to
over
time
enhance
the
taxonomy
so
that
we
we
can
come
with
the
most
meaningful
differentiators
for
what
matters
and
you
know
like
when
we
have
themes
ultimately
that
they're
like
well
a
b
and
c
are
basically
just
the
same
thing.
B
D
B
I
don't
know
like
there's,
definitely
a
way
that
designers
can
get
those
things,
but
I
don't
know
how
to
label
that
I
wouldn't
and
I'm
not
sure
that
this
labeling
thing
is
a
solved
problem
in
the
theme
world
either
like.
Maybe
we
should
look
at
some
theme
websites
and
see
like
and
I'm
not
even
sure,
if
the
people
who
are
posting
them
know
what's
a
label,
I
don't
know,
I
mean
yeah.
A
A
A
A
You
know
kids
music,
but
like
there's
broad
tropes
that
you
can
have
that
are
distinctly
different
and-
and
you
could
imagine,
there's
a
demo
like
you
know,
play
me
some
classical
music,
whether
it's,
whether
it's
a
symphony
or
you
know
a
feud.
It's
still,
you
know
very,
very
different
from
rap
or
country
right.
So
I
and
that's
all
I'm
looking
for
is.
It
is
a
couple
of
choices
so
that
people
understand
what
we
mean
by
theme.
C
Made
it,
when
did
I
mute
myself?
I
have
in
my
head
an
idea
of
what
this
looks
like,
I
think,
probably
similar
to
what
luke
does
my
problem
with
this
whole
issue
is
like
what
that
practically
means
underlying
technology,
wise
once
when
we
break
apart
themes
and-
and
I
think
this
idea
of
building
a
you
know
having
a
demo
site
where
you
can
try
on
different
skins
and
sort
of
show
that
their
themes
and
show
that
they
work
is
a
first
step.
C
C
I
think
the
description
that
we
talked
about
for
this
initiative,
like
you
know,
making
sure
there's
at
least
that
you
know
to
me
that
that
might
even
be
again
too
specific,
but
but
I'm
okay
with
that,
and
then
I've
raised
a
few
concerns,
but
none
of
those
are
blockers
like
I
think
they
can
be
worked
around.
I
think
we
we,
before
this
gets
voted
on
by
the
pmc.
It's
gonna
have
to
be
flushed
out
a
tiny
bit,
but
but
there's
nothing
about
it.
That's
super
problematic.
I
would
yeah
I'd
yeah.
C
A
So
so,
in
a
sense,
I
I
wanted
to
to
maintain
that
continuum
by,
even
though
I
changed
the
title,
I
included
in
the
in
the
body
of
the
proposal,
what
the
old
title
was
right,
so
that
so
that
so
you
can
kind
of
bounce
between
those
it's
like
hey.
You
know
some
of
that.
Some
of
this
you
know
what
what
do
you
specifically
mean
by
that?
Well,
here's
the
specifics!
That's
too
limiting!
Well,
here's
the
general.
C
Sure
I
think
we
can
work
with
this
well
thinkers,
we'll
have
to
figure
this
out
a
bit.
What
are
the
issues
around
submitting?
It
needs
to
have
I'm
working
off
the
top
of
my
head,
but
sort
of
the
criteria
for
initiative
was
one
that
it
had
some
definition.
D
C
B
And
that
you
don't
have
to
stay
in
the
lead
forever,
not
right
anyone
in
particular,
but
just
someone
to
sort
of
be
like
hey.
I
am
really
passionate
about
this
and
I
want
to
help
get
it
moving
forward
and
if
you
can
commit
to
you
know
having
conversations
like
this
for
six
months
to
a
year,
that's
fantastic
and
if
you
something
happens,
and
you
can't
continue,
there's
always
a
way
out.
But
just
we
don't
want
to
be
like
this
is
an
initiative
and
then
have
nothing
happen.
A
C
Personally,
I
wouldn't
call
the
requirement,
but
for
me
like
as
a
pmc
member,
what
I
would
be
looking
for
to
vote
for
in
a
in
an
initiative
is
some
sort
of
a
broad
outline
of
like
what
the
plan
of
action
is
like
I
don't
like
I
don't.
The
different
initiatives
can
handle
this
differently,
so
it
doesn't
necessarily
need
that
it
means
that
it
needs
regular
meetings
or
that
it
needs
anything
in
particular.
C
But
if
you
came
to
me
and
said
this
initiative
is
going
to
meet
once
a
month
or
it's
going
to
meet
bi-weekly
and
our
first
two
meetings
are
going
to
be
setting
goals,
and
that
is
going
to
make
the
initiative
sound
much
more
useful
to
me
than
if
it's
like.
Oh,
we
have
this
broad
topic
and
we're
going
to
figure
it
all
out
later,
so
to
the
extent
that
we
could
put
a
little
bit
of
definition
like
how
is
this
initiative
going
to
work
again,
not
a
requirement
but
helpful?
A
Well,
dude,
I
mean
basically
the
the
goal
is
in
the
title
now
you
know
make
it
and
I
I
need
to
include
the
the
wording
that
gemini
bounce
back
between
ourselves
of
of
remove
barriers
to
entry
and
and
to
achieve
that.
Like
the
initial
straw,
man
mvp
was
include
three
themes,
and
but
I
didn't
want
that
to
be
the
limiting
thing
like
like
it's
either
yes
or
no
on
that,
I'm
I'm
like
well,
you
know,
or
if
include
three
ready,
to
go
themes.
A
B
Okay,
well,
we
are
out
of
time
here,
so
I'm
gonna
recommend
that
we
wrap
this
meeting
and
we
can
continue
talking
about
this,
maybe
in
the
next
meeting
or
maybe
in
a
standalone
initiative
meeting
but
yeah.
I
thank
you
guys
for
the
excellent
pow
out
on
it
and
see
you
again
in
a
few
minutes.