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From YouTube: Bckdrop Design & UX - August 13th, 2020
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A
B
Hey
my
name
is
greg,
I'm
joining
from
grace
just
catching
up
with
the
latest
amazon
and
see.
If
I
can
help
people.
C
D
Jason
from
las
vegas
tell
us,
so
I'm
also
here
just
basically
listen
to
the
conversation.
I'm
back-end
developer,
interested
in
front-end
improvements,
though.
A
I'm
jen
lampton
calling
from
oakland
california.
I
am
also
interested
in
all
the
things
we
have
a
section
in
this
weekly
or
fortnightly
meeting
specifically
to
cover
the
theme
initiative
and
recommended
changes.
We've
had
three
issues,
sort
of
large
scale
issues
we've
been
talking
about
in
this
meeting
for
a
while.
Now
I
don't
know
that
we've
gotten
any
updates
on
those
since
our
last
meeting,
but
just
to
highlight
them
again.
A
B
A
Something
to
say
like
okay,
we
do
have
an
update
and
that's
something
that
has
a
lot
of
moving
parts.
The
main
issue
in
our
core
cue
is
four
four,
four
five,
but
there's
also
a
parallel
in
the
project,
module
and
there's
stuff
related
to
modules.
That
also
needs
to
get
addressed
there.
C
Can
I
say
something
or
ask
a
question
about
that,
so
this
idea
of
approved
themes
so
one
of
the
questions
I
keep
asking,
which
I'm
not
sure
if
it's
resonating
with
other
people
or
not,
which
has
made
me
doubt
my
whether
or
not
I'm
on
the
right
track,
but
he's
like
what
are
the
criteria
for
being
approved.
Yeah.
A
C
Think
one
of
the
things
I've
just
been
trying
to
do
is
find
time
myself
to
do
some
experimenting.
So
I
could
give
more
concrete
examples
and
we
have
a
relatively
new
theme
pellerin,
which,
if
people
haven't
looked
at
it,
I
recommend
they
do
just
probably
not
a
theme.
I
would
use
myself,
but
because
it's
a
really
like,
if
you're
doing
a
basic
blog,
it's,
but
it's
a.
I
think
it
applies
to
the
ready
to
wear
initiative,
because
this
is
it
fills
a
gap.
That's
something
I
don't
think.
C
We've
had
really
good
options
for
where
it's
just
a
plug
and
play
if
you've
got
a
really
simple
kind
of
site
theme
and
you
can
change
backgrounds,
and
one
of
the
things
I
noticed
right
away
was
that
if
I
inserted
a
logo
into
this
theme,
it
broke
so
that's
been
fixed.
C
I
filed
a
a
pull
request
and
we've
and
we
got
that
fixed,
but
that
sort
of
helps
me
illustrate
like
what
I'm
talking
about.
It's
like
you
can
just
open
up
a
theme
and
it
might
look
good
on
any
particular
site,
but
in
order
for
it
to
be
approved,
it
seems
to
me
we
need
to
know
like
have
a
certain
checklist
of
things
that
it
that
we
know
works
like
you
know,
we
might
assume
that
you
can
add
a
logo
through
you
know
to
to
a
theme
to
be
approved.
C
Other
things
like
that,
and
so
I
don't
know
I
just
kind
of
wanted.
I'm
raising
this,
partly
because
I
had
this
concrete
example
this
week
and
also
just
to
sort
of
get
feedback
on,
isn't
that
part
of
what
we
need
to
and
I've?
C
My
hope
was
that
once
we
got
this
sort
of
demo
site
set
up
with
and
and
that
that
to
me
that's
to
somewhat
that's
the
importance
of
the
sample
content
in
this
sort
of
demo
site
is
that
we
can
make
sure
we
have
the
kinds
of
sample
content
in
there
that
we
want
that.
We
would
expect
in
the
kind
of
site
that
we
want
themed
and
then
we
can
better
test
we're
not
just
displaying
these
things,
but
also
in
a
way
testing
them
right
to
see
if
they
work.
A
So
I
think
that
this
list
of
requirements
for
what
I
require,
what
a
recommended
theme
has
is
going
to
continue
to
grow
as
we
run
into
problems
like
this.
So
I
just
added
your
item
to
that
list
for
now,
but
I
think
that
you
know,
because
we've
never
asked
this
question
before,
like
we
don't
have
a
complete
list
right
now.
Well,
we
have
you
know
the
stuff
that
we
can
think
of
and
as
we
run
into
new
things,
but
like
oh,
we
should
have
thought
of
that
too.
A
So
I
added
your
item
as
the
fifth
to
the
list
works
both
with
and
without
a
logo.
I
think
that's
also
important
if
you
have
an
example,
one
that
works
with
the
logo,
if
you
take
it
out,
if
your
whole
like
menu,
gets
broken
or
something,
that's
always
gonna
be
a
problem
but
yeah
and
I
would
say
tim,
you
have
a
lot
of
experience
with
using
a
bunch
of
contrib
themes
and
trying
them
on
when
they're.
A
New,
so
I
would
say
if
you,
as
you
find
things
we
were
like.
Oh
it's
going
to
be
important
that
you
know
we
support
whatever
it
is
we'll
just
put
that
in
the
list
also-
and
you
know
we
can
talk
about
the
list
at
various
points
in
time,
if
we
feel
like
it's
getting
too
big
or
if
we
want
to
have
a
check
up
on
all
that
stuff.
E
A
Right
now,
just
so
everybody
knows
where
that
list
lives
is
in
issue
four,
four,
four
five,
it
says
a
feature.
Complete
theme
must
include
colon
and
there's
only
five
things
there,
and
so
I
think,
as
we
continue
to
work
on
what
this
criteria
is,
that
list
will
get
longer.
There's
also
wordpress
has
a
pretty
good
example.
A
It's
in
the
third
second
or
third
comment
on
that
page
from
dreyer
about,
what's
required
for
their
themes
to
be
approved,
and
I
think
it
might
be
good
to
take
a
look
at
that
and
see.
If
there
are
parallels
we
might
want
to
pull
between
backdrop
themes
of
wordpress
themes.
They
might
have
some
good
ideas
too.
I
haven't
looked
at
that
in
detail.
I
sort
of
glanced
at
it.
I
was
like.
A
So
yeah
it's
a
little
bit
tricky
right
now,
because
we're
trying
to
do
all
the
things
at
once
like
we're,
trying
to
decide
on
a
criteria
we're
trying
to
set
up
some
sample
content,
we're
trying
to
choose
some
approved
themes,
and
I
think
that
all
of
them
are
going
to
sort
of
grow
at
different
speeds,
and
we
just
need
to
figure
out
how
to
do
it
in
the
way
that
makes
up
sense.
B
I
see
that
there's
an
item
there
that
will
create
a
template,
an
issue
template
in
contrib
for
promoting
or
nominating
things
and
then,
ideally,
we
would
have
a
the
checklist
and
also
a
process
on
how
to
sort
of
like
test
each
one
of
that
points
so
that
it
doesn't
fall
on
from
the
the
responsibility
it
doesn't
fall
on
people
who
know
how
to
do
these
things
already.
So
if
we
had
a
guide,
so
it
says,
support
all
10
core
layouts.
A
Yeah,
I
mean,
I
think,
all
of
the
things
that
we
want
to
be
supported
should
eventually
be
in
the
style,
guide,
module,
and
so
it
will
say
like
and
turn
on
the
style
guide
module
visit
this
this
page.
This
page
this
page,
this
page
and
all
of
those
pages
will
have
like
there
will
be
one
for
each
core
layout.
You
have
to
make
sure
that
they
all
like
seem
sort
of
okay
and
then
there
will
also
be
views
in
there.
A
A
I
have
a
bunch
of
sample
layout
with
you
know,
just
like
lorem
ipsum
content
in
it
that
I've
been
using,
but
I
think
that
we,
you
know,
should
aim
for
something
better
than
that
long
term,
but
I
thought
that
might
be
a
good
starting
point
for
style
guide
to
include
just
like
here's
layouts
with
content
in
them
and
we
can
adjust
like
once.
We
know
what
views
are
we
can
like
put
those
views
in
the
layouts
in
various
different
places.
So
again
I
think
it's
going
to
be
a
super
iterative
process.
A
In
terms
of
you
know.
At
the
end,
the
end
of
the
day,
it'll
be
like
turn
on
style
guide,
make
sure
everything
looks
good
and
that's
all
you
need
to
do
but
right
now
it's
like.
We
don't
have
these
things
yet
so
just
trying
to
figure
out
how
to
get
people
to
be
able
to
do.
The
testing
is
going
to
be
tricky.
A
B
Style
guide
usually
has
html
component
styling
and
things
like
that.
I'm
not
sure
how
it
would
fit
for
the
first
point
like
support
for
on
all
term
core
layouts.
B
Ideally
we
would
have
in
the
test
site,
10
pages
10
sample
pages,
that
each
one
uses
the
layout
and
people
can
switch
to
that
theme.
You
know
resize
their
browser,
try
different,
so
that
it's
what
you
call
it
responsive
and
things
like
that,
but
most
of
it
can
go
in
the
style,
you're
right.
A
Yeah,
I
so
I'm
working
on
a
version
of
the
style
guide
module
that
has
a
install
hook.
That
will
add
all
of
the
layouts
just
import
the
config,
but
I'm
not
entirely
sure
like.
Maybe
that
should
be
like
a
sub
module
style.
A
I
don't
know
like
have
the
exact
like
end
result
of
what
that'll
look
like
might
be
very
different
from
what
it
is
right
now,
but
at
least
it's
something
I'm
working
on
something
yeah,
but
I
think
who
knows
like,
I
think,
also
having
like
a
sample
site
that
already
has
this
stuff
on.
It
would
also
be
really
easy
for
people
like
okay
on
your
local
site,
turn
on
style
guide
and
make
sure
it
looks
good,
but
then,
before
we
promote
it
like
check
it
somewhere
else,
here's
a
sample
site.
A
You
can,
you
know
turn
on
over.
There
would
also
be
really
good
because
I
feel,
like
you
know
things,
things
are
really
different
from
site
to
site
and
having
more
than
one
place
to
test,
it
is
going
to
be
really
helpful.
B
A
Welcome,
if
you
would
like
to
introduce
yourself,
we
have
previously
said
what
our
name
is
where
we're
from
and
if
there's
anything
particularly.
You
would
like
to
mention
about
this
meeting.
You're
welcome
to
do
that.
I'm
not
sure
if
you
have
audio,
but
if
you
do
feel
free
to
interrupt
or
add
a
comment
in
the
chat
and
let
us
know
we
can
read
that
too.
A
All
right,
so
we
also
have,
since
we
were
just
talking
about
it.
The
next
item
on
the
theme
initiative
is
make
all
themes
better
by
providing
standard
elements,
those
were
the
layouts
the
views,
the
kinds
of
things
that
we
think
every
theme
should
support,
and
it
doesn't
have
to
be
super
detailed.
A
Like
a
view
of
teasers
generally,
and
I
think
we
can,
we
can
create
a
view
that
contains
that
and
include
it
in
the
style
guide
or
just
as
a
config
file
that
someone
can
import
on
their
local
site
would
also
be
useful.
A
And
then
the
third
issue
that
we're
working
on
is
find
a
way
to
make
it
easier
to
preview
themes
both
for
desktop
and
mobile.
We
have
a
bunch
of
different
ideas
about
how
to
do
this,
whether
it's
a
demo
site
that
you
can
put
different
themes
on
or
whether
it's
a
way
to
install
themes
on
your
local
site
or
whether
it's
a
preview
button
or
a
multi-site
install
or
a
tugboat
setup
that
we
have
a
lot
of
different
pipe
dreams
about
how
to
do
that.
A
I'm
not
sure
that
there's
a
specific
issue
anywhere
yet
about
it,
but
it
is
something
that
we
know
is
some
something
that
we
want.
We
want
to
make
it
easier
for
people
to
preview
and
select
themes
for
their
own
sites,
and
so
we
need
to
figure
out
one
or
more
solutions
to
that
problem.
To
start
moving
forward.
A
A
The
next
section
of
the
agenda
is
about
designing
usability
updates
for
backdrop
cms
itself.
We
have
a
couple
of
user
experience,
issues
that
have
been
long-standing
pain
points,
at
least
for
gregory,
and
I
there
was
this
issue
about
getting
modules
promoted
in
this
installer.
This
also
now
applies
to
themes.
A
B
Yeah
we
have,
we
have
a
pretty
good
idea
of
what
needs
to
happen.
There's
a
lot
of
moving
parts.
I
think
we
got
the
some
of
the
bead.org
parts
in
place,
which
is
the
checkbox
to
just
use
it
as
a
flag
of
a
project
being
promoted.
A
Installer,
we
also
have
this
issue
to
move
the
clear
log
messages
button
2353.
it
had
like
100
some
comments
on
it.
People
apparently
feel
very
passionately
about
the
location
of
the
button.
It's
current
pull
request
as
mark
needs
work.
The
issue
itself
is
marked,
needs
more
feedback.
A
I
was
thinking
recently
that
this
might
be
a
good
kind
of
issue,
since
it
seems
to
be
no
obvious
consensus
in
the
issue
queue.
It
might
be
something
we
could
ask
escalate
to
the
project
management
committee
and
be
like
hey.
A
lot
of
people
have
different
feelings
on
this
issue.
Here's
the
summary
of
it.
Here's
the
issue
in
the
queue.
A
If
you
want
to
read
the
whole
conversation,
please
let
us
know
if
we
should
move
in
any
of
the
directions
stated
or
not,
because
another
option
is
just
leave
it
as
it
is
rather
than
making
a
change,
and
I
thought
that
if
we
feel
like
we're
not
able
to
make
a
clear
decision
based
on
the
conversation
in
the
issue,
maybe
it
would
be
something
we
could
escalate
to
say
hey.
This
is
something
that
could
cause
conflict
in
the
community.
A
It's
now
a
conflict
resolution
issue
and
then
they
could
decide
which
way
to
go
on
that.
B
Well,
if
we
sorted
out
issue
5.6,
which
is
make
form
submit,
but
button
sticky,
maybe
that
would
be
a
solution
to
that
problem.
C
Well,
here's
the
point
I
take
away
from
this
is
that
there
might
be
two
or
three
issues
currently
in
the
issue:
queue
that
are
in
a
similar
sort
of
bind
and
if
we're
going
to
escalate
some
things,
it
might
make
sense
to
to
package
them.
C
Like
here's
a
couple
of
issues,
I
don't
know
as
opposed
to
just
one
at
a
time,
because
I'm
thinking
from
the
pmc's
point
of
view,
it
might
be
like,
let's
focus
for
two
weeks,
I
mean
because
we
haven't
really
addressed
any
issues
like
this
for
a
year,
and
I
don't
know
it
just
feels
to
me
like
it
might
be
helpful
to
have
a
couple
of
them
going
at
once,
because
I
don't
know
I'm
just
talking
about.
A
I
definitely
think
like
if
we
wanted
to
push
a
bunch
of
stuff
to
pmc
and
say:
hey
here's
a
couple
of
examples
of
issues
where
we
weren't
able
to
reach
consensus.
A
That
would
be
good,
but
I
think
that
we
should
have
them
resolvable
one
at
a
time,
so
that
we
would
have
all
three
at
once,
but
I
think
you're
right,
like
it
would
be
good
to
have
here,
are
a
bunch
of
examples
of
this
happening.
So
people
can
get
a
feeling
for
like
what
does
it
look
like
when
there's
not
consensus
and
is
there
actually
any
conflict,
or
is
this
just
something?
We
need
direction
on
yeah.
C
A
Was
one
issue
that
mike
escalated
to
the
pmc
when
he
was
on
the
pmc,
and
it
says
that,
like
any
pmc
member
can
escalate
an
issue
to
the
pmc
if
they
feel
like
they
see
something
going
on,
they
can
move
it,
but
we've
also
had
other
places
where
people
who
weren't
on
the
c
pmc
wanted
an
issue
to
be
escalated
and
that's
not
currently
like.
There's
no
specific
instructions
on
how
that
can
happen.
But
I
think
that
that's
a
valid
thing
too,
like
it
couldn't.
A
E
A
Have
some
way
for
those
people
to
request?
You
know
someone
else
to
make
a
decision
on
it,
so
yeah,
I
think
we
need.
We
might
need
a
clear
process
on
that,
like
I
don't
know
whether
it's
a
throw
in
a
weekly
agenda
or
fill
out
a
web
form
or
post
it
in
the
forum,
or
I
don't
know
what
it's
going
to
be,
but
I
think
having
some
process
there
for
people
do.
That
would
be
good.
A
I
also
don't
know
like
as
a
pmc
member,
I'm
also
a
little
sensitive
being
like
I
don't
wanna
say
we
need
to
escalate
it
unless
the
other
people
in
the
conversation
want
to
have
it
escalated
because
they
don't
want
to
feel
like
it's
getting
taken
out
of
their
hands
if
they
feel
like
they're,
making
progress
on
it.
Yeah.
E
E
A
That
call
which
I
think
is
also
hard
because,
right
now,
the
pmc
members
are
the
only
ones
that
are
empowered
to
do
that,
yet
we're
all
waiting
for
someone
else
to
ask
right.
So
that
might
be
something
that
would
be
good
to
talk
about.
Maybe
in
today's
weekly
meeting
and
see
like
okay,
you
know:
should
we
have
some
very
cut
and
clear
criteria
like
an
issue
gets
more
than
100
comments.
It's
fine
for
anyone
to
escalate
like
something
like
very,
very
clear
like
that.
E
A
Also
might
be
worthwhile
to
always
have
someone
say
like
post
a
comment.
Would
you
like
this
escalated?
Yes,
no
and
see
if,
if
there
are
like,
maybe
at
least
three
yes
responses
or
something
like
that,
I'm
not
really
sure
what
those
criteria
should
be.
It's
something
we
should
think
about,
and
maybe
maybe
I'll
just
push
this
to
the
dev
meeting
today
to
see.
If
anyone
in
that
meeting
also
has
thoughts
on
it.
A
B
If
my
my
memory
serves
me
well,
I
think
the
last
time
that
something
was
escalated.
It
wasn't
purely
because
of
technical
sort
of
like
directional
issues.
It
was
because
of
the
language
and
the
tone
being
used
in
the
oh
yeah
yeah,
maybe
so
the
last
time
that
it
was
escalated.
It
was
the
the
it
was
a
technical,
a
technical
disagreement,
but
it
was
mainly
the
the
tone
of
like
the
language
being
used
and
that's
why
it
was
escalated.
B
It
wasn't
escalated
with
with
the
intention
to
provide
direction,
but,
but
I
agree
with
what
was
said,
I.
A
Don't
think
that
issue
ever
got
escalated,
that
was
something
or
in
the
pmc
queue
everybody
was
like.
Should
we
intervene,
but
it
wasn't
ever?
It
didn't
come
from
the
community
requesting
an
intervention,
and
it
did
eventually
resolve
itself
where
it
didn't
have
to
be
escalated.
That
was
another
instance
where
I
think
really
having
clear
guidelines
around
what
the
pmc
should
intervene
would
be
really
helpful.
A
B
At
the
end,
I
recall
as
well
that
it
was
a
cultural
difference
of
how
forward
people
are
and
that's
it,
so
it
got
resolved,
as
you
say,
on
its
own,
but
I
agree
with
what
you
said
before
that
we
should
be
using
the
escalation
for
technical
disagreements
as
well.
A
B
C
There
yet
yeah.
E
C
In
a
minute
I
mean,
I
think,
well
no,
I
I
mean
to
be
honest,
I
don't.
I
don't
know
that
it's.
I
know
that
there
have
been
moments
in
the
last
two
weeks
where
I've
seen
issues
and
thought
we
might
be
close
to
that,
but
I
off
the
top
of
my
head,
so
at
least
one
of
them.
One
of
them
was
that
password
indicator
one,
and
I
think
that
seems
to
be
resolving.
Oh.
E
C
So
that
was
it,
it
just
sort
of
reached
the
point
where
I
thought
it
was
log
jammed
and
then
it
suddenly
broke
free.
B
So
yeah
so
so
yeah
a
good
indicator
is
if
you
sort
the
issues
by
most
commenting,
yeah,
usually.
B
129,
currently,
yes
and
then
the
clear
log
messages
button
is
91
messages
and
after
that,
for
some
reason,
the
add
references
module
which
there's
no
disagreement
there.
It's
just
that
yeah
history
adds
comments
like
historically
yeah,
but
I
agree.
I
agree
that
if
we
get
stuck
yeah,
if
not
pmc
escalation,
maybe
sometimes
it's
a
technical
decision,
so
maybe
our
core
committees,
instead
of
pmc.
A
Well,
I
think
that's
why
the
pmc
has
access
to
like
the
leadership
group,
so
that
if
there's
something
where
you
want
corp
committer
feedback,
pmc
can
say:
hey
core
committers.
We
need
input
on
whatever,
but
I
think
the
decision
still
needs
to
come
from
the
pmc
and
not
from
the
committers,
but
they
need
to
know
how
the
commanders
feel
about
it.
C
C
Yes,
yes,
so
next
on
the
agenda
right
where
we
would
be
moving
into
the
the
design
issues
or
is
there
anything
else
on
ux?
First.
C
Okay,
so
this
white
gap
between
the
two
hero
blocks,
as
we
alluded
to,
I
guess
it
might
have
been
before
the
meeting
started.
It's
a
css
issue
in
in
basis
and
there's
been
a
discussion
going
on
about
about
how
to
safely
make
changes
in
basis
to
the
base
of
css
without
breaking
old
sites.
C
Well
or
whether
or
not
whether
or
not
that's
even
an
issue.
If
we
break
old
sites,
I
guess-
and
this
is
one
where
again,
I
don't
think-
we've
gotten
to
the
point
where
we're
deadlocked,
but
I
see
I
mean
to
me.
I
think
that
there's
a
a
bit
of
a
philosophical
difference
or-
and
it
might
be-
that
this
can
be
sorted
out
between
folks
who
kind
of
view
basis
as
primarily
something
to
be
sub-themed.
C
And
don't
really
envision
it
being
used
like
as
an
out
of
the
box
theme.
A
lot
and
folks
like
myself,
who
feel
like
basis
could
be
a
really
useful
tool
to
users
if
we
could
just
fix
some
things
in
it
and
and
I'm
and
I'm
just
sort
of
saying
that
some
of
the
the
issues
I
raise
there
seems
to
be
a
lot
of
negative
feedback
like
oh,
we
don't
really
need
to
addre,
there's
easy
alternatives
for
fixing
those
and
to
me
that's
sort
of
suggesting
like
if
you're
a
themer.
C
This
is
an
easy
problem
to
fix,
so
we
shouldn't
even
worry
about
it,
and
I
agree
that
for
themers,
these
problems
aren't
a
big
deal,
but
if
the
goal
is
to
have
like
an
easy
to
use
tool
for
somebody
who's,
not
creating
a
sub
theme
and
they're
just
trying
to
configure
bases
to
work
as
a
powerful,
flexible
theme,
then
we
need
to
fix
these.
And
this
in
this
idea
about
providing
supplemental
style
sheets.
It's
like
some
people,
you
know,
there's
we've
got
one
of
the.
C
The
options
is
that
we
just
go
ahead
and
fix
some
of
these
small
things.
Recognizing
that
it
could
break
previous
sites-
and
personally
I
don't
I'm
not
comfortable
with
that.
C
If
the
goal
is
to
have
a
a
powerful,
flexible
theme
for
people
to
use
out
of
the
box,
but
a
number
of
people
seem
to
be
falling
behind
that,
like.
Oh,
it's
not
a
big
deal.
If
these
little
things
break,
we
just
warn
people
about
it
and
let
them
deal
with
it,
and
I
guess
what
I'm
trying
to
get
at
is
that
is
this:
maybe
not
a
technical
dispute,
but
more
of
a
philosophical
dispute
about
what
the
purpose
of
basis
is.
A
Yeah,
I
think
I
would
agree
that
the
issue
we
started
talking
about
something
technical
and
what
people
end
up
commenting
on
is
not
the
technical
aspects
of
it,
but
the
philosophical
aspects
where
I'm
also
seeing
people
saying
it
doesn't
matter
if
there's
css
bugs
leave
it
as
it
is.
Then.
E
A
To
break
it,
but
that
also
is
the
same
problem
as
the
first
problem,
where,
if
you
are
a
less
technical
person
and
you've
already
hired
someone
to
fix
your
site
or
you've
already
somehow
figured
out
how
to
compensate
for
the
problem.
And
then
your
site
breaks
like
later
you're,
still
stuck
without
a
solution
being
able
to
fix
it
without
knowing
how
to
write
that
code.
Yourself.
A
And
I'm
not
sure
I
like
either
of
those
philosophical
positions
where
don't
ever
fix
anything
because
it
might
break
or
fix
all
the
things
and
who
cares
if
it
breaks
or
not?
A
And
so
that's
why
I
was
kind
of
landing
on
like
going
for
a
really
technical,
complicated
solution,
because
we
can
solve
all
the
problems,
but
then
that
also
like
reintroduces
everybody
saying
whoa.
This
is
way
too
complicated,
but
yeah.
I
think
it
would
be
good
to
something
something
like
that
where
you
could
kick
it
to
the
pmc
and
say
like
weigh
all
of
the
possible
solutions
against
the
philosophy,
which
is
something
that
we're
supposed
to
look
at,
be
like.
A
Okay,
like
we're
supposed
to
value
people
who
can't
write
code
over
people
who
can
write
code
or
at
least
they're
the
needs
of
those
people.
So
we
should
say
you
know
just
write.
Css
word
is
not
an
answer,
but
also
I
would
really
like
existing
sites
to
not
get
broken,
and
I
know
that
the
the
use
case
we're
talking
about
in
this
particular
case
is
not
limited.
A
It's
not
as
limited
as
people
think
it
is.
I've
run
into
the
problem
with
this
white
gap
on
a
bunch
of
sites
that
I've
done
and
I've
never
used
a
flexible
layout
template.
So
I
think
it's
just
coming
up
with,
like
that's
a
really
great
way,
to
reproduce
the
problems
to
use
the
flexible
one,
but
you
can
see
it
that
way,
but
that's
not
the
only
place
it
comes
up
and.
E
A
That
a
lot
of
the
things
we're
running
into
are
problems
where
we
don't
necessarily
know
all
of
the
places
where
an
implication
could
appear,
and
so
we
need
to
be
really
careful
with
it.
I
think
in
general,
like
don't
change,
anything
if
you
don't
have
to
is
a
good
idea,
but
where,
when
is
the?
Do
you
have
to
part
apply?
Is
the
tricky
part
and
I
don't
know
yeah?
I
don't
know
that
I
want
to
be
the
one
to
make
that
call.
A
I
think,
having
a
more
controlled
place
where
we'll
be
like.
Okay,
we've
got,
you
know,
seven
people,
let's
have
a
vote,
we'll
be
much
clearer,
be
like
well,
the
vote
said
x
and
then
it's
not.
I
didn't
make
the
decision.
You
didn't
make
a
decision.
A
Of
came
out
that
way,
I
think,
would
also
be
good
because
I'm
not
sure
there's
a
right
answer.
I'm
not
also
sure
there's
a
wrong
answer.
It's
just
a
lot
of
people
have
strong
opinions
about
it.
A
So
yeah,
that's
the
kind
of
thing
where
I
thought
pushing
that
to
the
pmc,
though,
maybe
not
necessary,
might
be
appreciated
by
a
bunch
of
people
just
because
then
it
sort
of
takes
the
heat
out
of
the
conversation
and
be
like
okay,
it's
not
it's
not
up
to
us
anymore,
give
it
give
it
to
someone
else
to
have
it.
There's
a
conversation
about
it.
B
Well,
it's
it's!
It's
funny,
it's
funny
as
well,
because
the
for
this
specific
issue
the
people
involved
are
most
of
them,
are
either
in
the
leadership
or
the
pmc.
So
and
I
don't
wanna,
I
don't
wanna
sort
of
derail
the
discussion,
but
we
might
be
arguing
for
a
thing
that
might
not
be
worth
the
trouble
and
let
me
explain
what
I
mean.
If
we
had
metrics,
we
would
have
known
how
many
sites
are
actually
using
bases
or
something
of
basis.
B
C
Yeah,
no
no
metrics
won't
necessarily
help
us
because
it
might
be
that
no
but
nobody's
using
bases
in
this
way,
because
it's
broken.
So
if
we
had
matrix,
they
would
say
well,
nobody
uses
bases
that
way.
We
don't
need
to
fix
it.
Well,
you
know,
metrics,
isn't
always
the
solution.
What
I
think
that
we're?
What
I
don't
understand
about
this
debate
is
the
people
who
are
arguing
for
these
other
positions
about
like
let
it
break
or
whatever
seem
to
be
doing,
because
they
think
the
alternative
is
very
complicated
and
I
don't
think
it
is.
C
A
B
Is
actually
no,
there
is
actually
a
code,
and
I
did
I
did
take
a
look
at
it
yeah.
So
if
we
go
back
to
the
specific
issue
and
not
theoretically
talk
about
what
we
do
in
these
cases,
I
did
take
a
look
in
the
the
way
that
it
works
in
theory
is
simple,
but
the
technical
dash
that
we
will
leave
about
doing
these
things.
It's
not
as
simple
and
and
if
you
notice,
I
also
filed
an
issue
about
logging,
the
initial
sort
of
like.
B
I
don't
want
this
list
of
css
versions
to
grow
extremely
big,
so
that
was
always
in
the
back
of
my
head.
I
don't
know.
I
think
that
I
need
to
get
married
to
the
things
that
you're
saying
that
we
should
consider
not
breaking
stuff
and
if,
if
it's
a
small
sort
of
like
as
in
a
few
lines
of
code
change,
we
should
do
it.
B
But
I
think
that
the
most
most
of
the
people
that
participate
in
this
discussion,
that
are
the
more
technical
people
like
the
core
commuters
they've,
seen
these
sort
of
things
creep
into
the
code,
and
you
know
down
the
line
cause
further
issues,
cause
things
to
become
unmaintainable.
That's
that's
the
problem.
B
This
change
won't
be
coming
very
often,
it
won't
happen
as
often
or
history
has
proven
that
it
hasn't
been
happening
that
often,
and
if
we
make
sure
that
we
introduce
the
change
in
a
major
sorry,
a
minor
release
instead
of
a
bug
fix
with
well
documented
sort
of,
like
I
mean
from
my
experience
when
you
upgrade
a
site
to
a
next
minor
version
or
a
major
version
with
the
people
that
are
doing
the
update
of
being
more
cautious
because
they
know
there's
more
change
involved
and
they
do
read
me
read
the
readme
about
it.
B
B
B
E
I
am
large
because,
because
the
existing
site
is
more
important,
so
minor
version
is
update
with
basis
and
go
with
slowly
not
do
with
major
update,
because
extreme
existing
customer
is
very
important.
So
we
can
move
with
minor
version.
Then
we
are
going
through
where,
where
we
want
to
go
so
as
a
rolling
release,
not
a
major
update
like
drupal
goes
to
seven
to
nine.
We
want
to
go
as
a
path.
Yes,
thank
you.
Yeah.
B
And
yeah
yeah
you're
right
and
the
releases.
The
reason
why
I
mentioned
the
minor
releases
is
because
we
know
when
they
come
out
like
they
come
at
specific
dates
throughout
the
year.
So
if
we
tell
people
that
look,
we've
made
this
change,
which
may
be
potential
and
point
them
say
if
you're
using
the
hero
blocks,
then
this
may
cause
that
problem,
and
this
is
how
you
may
fix
it.
So
if
we
are
very
thorough
in
this
specific
case,
I
don't
think
it's
going
to
be
such
a
big
issue
but
yeah.
B
C
Well,
I
I
never
said
it's
to
me.
It's
like
what
I'd
like
for
people
to
do
is
tell
me
why
the
supplemental
sheets
are
so
complicated
and
then
I
would
have
a
better
understanding
right
now.
I'm
just
frustrated
because
I'm
not
I'm
not
understand,
people
are
sort
of
saying.
No.
Your
idea
is
dumb
because
it's
too
complicated.
E
Major
update,
always
the
the
user
is
confused
because
they
always
they
are
changing
like
a
major
update
and
they
have
to
learn
new
things
every
time.
So
I
try
to
say:
go
with
always
minor
version,
so
we
stay
and
we
can
focus
our
works
and
our
our
goal.
But
when
we
are
moving
on
major
update,
then
we
have
to
learn
something
always
so
we
manage
our
site
or
learn
something.
So
that's
time
killing.
B
Yes,
the
the
only
problem
with
that
is
that
the
next
major
update
for
backdrop
is
not
scheduled
until
2025.
I
believe-
and
we're
not
sure
if
that's
gonna
happen
even
then,
so
we
cannot
postpone
fixing
certain
things
for
like
another
five
years
when
there
are
actual
problems.
So
there
has
to
be
a
balance
like
some.
Some
things
will
need
to
be
fixed
before
a
major
update.
C
C
But
personally
my
advice
to
people
of
the
audience
I'm
talking
about
would
be
that,
if
that's
the
philosophy,
then
I
would
recommend
people
go
with
a
contrib
theme
instead,
because
that
they're
going
to
have
less
problems
because
they
won't
just
arbitrarily
have
things
changed
if
they
have
a
concrete
theme,
they
have
more
control
over
when
things
change
and-
and
that's
a
fine-
I
mean
it's,
I
don't
think
it's
necessarily
wrong
to
do
that,
but
you
know
it's
like
yeah.
C
B
So
I'm
interested
in
both
of
your
opinions,
team
and
zen,
because
I
know
that
you,
you
guys,
have
been
doing
a
lot
of
work
with
things,
I'm
not
sure
if
you're
something
basis
specifically.
But
what
do
you
think
about
the
approach
of
asking
people
to
sort
of
like
copy
a
specific
version
if
it
breaks
the
site,
you
don't
you
don't
like
that
right?
Okay,
is
it?
Is
it
the
security
concerns.
A
Not
only
do
you
not
get
the
updates,
which
could
be
like
security
updates,
but
now
you've
got
like
a
copy
of
an
old
version
and
a
new
version
which
is
really
confusing
when
you're
like
trying
to
figure
out
where
something's
coming
from
and
to
be
fair.
This
is
what
people
did
all
the
time
in
in
drupal
when
you're.
First
learning
you
take
a
copy
of
garland
or
whatever
it
was
you
throw
it
in
your
site,
and
you
just
start
hacking
on
it
and
yeah.
A
A
Like
you're
like
oh
here's,
a
bunch
of
code,
I
can
work
with
and
having
a
good
starting
point
is
great
and
I
didn't
learn
about
sub
theming
until,
like
I
don't
know
a
year
and
a
half
or
two
after
I'd
been
using
drupal,
and
I
was
like
oh
my
gosh,
I
didn't
know
it
could
do
this
and
I
think
you
know
we
sort
of
we're
sort
of
in
the
same
boat.
A
With
backdrop
where
we've
inherited
the
same,
we've
got
the
same
tools:
we've
got
the
same
idea
where
there
are
going
to
be
a
bunch
of
people
are
going
to
be
like
oh
open
source
grab
a
theme
whatever
and
the
more
we
can
do
to
make
basis
a
better
starting
point,
the
better
it's
kind
of
our
our
goal
for
basis
when
we
first
set
it
out.
So
we
want
to
make
something
that
people
can
use
as
a
starting
point.
A
Whether
that's
you
know
copying
it,
because
that's
what
you
think
you
should
do
or
whether
it's
using
it
as
a
base
theme
or
whether
it's
using
it
as
a
regular
theme
and
and
just
modifying
it
through
the
ui.
I
think
those
are
all
good
things,
but
yeah
I
don't
know,
there's
we
also
had
some
issues
early
on
with,
like
the
color
module,
not
working
right.
If
you
just
copy
an
entire
theme
and
then
you
have
settings
for
the
core
theme,
and
now
you
have
settings
for
the
contrib
theme.
A
B
E
Yeah
we
can
say
about
something:
then
we
have
to
make
basis
as
a
more
comfortable
for
something,
so
we
can
move
in
hook
and
everything
so
like
as
genesis
doing
in
what
place.
So
you
who
want
to
use
something,
go
basic
and
use
the
sub
team
and
you
will
be
getting
more
control
on
it.
So
we
have
to
make
a
sub
team
with
more
control
with
basis.
So
basis
is
the
main
theme
and
core
theme,
so
it's
always
upgraded.
E
So
if
we
have
a
sub
team
with
more
more
control
and
comfortable,
so
we
can
go
with
it.
B
Yeah,
so
I
was
thinking
that
also-
and
I
think
I've
mentioned
that
in
the
issue
is
like,
if
you
upgrade,
and
you
see
that
your
side
is
broken
even
as
a
workaround.
If
you
want
to
revert
to
the
previous
change,
not
working
and
you
identify
that
the
problem
is
the
the
recent
change
in
basis
right.
Under
that
context,
you
can
always
switch
to
the
switch
to
the
previous
version
of
basis.
That's
what
I'm
saying
as
a
temporary
workaround
until
you
fix
it.
A
Right,
you
can
count
on
that,
though,
because
there
could
be
like
a
theme
setting
that
got
updated
as
part
of
the
update
and
now
you're
running
an
old
theme.
That's
depending
on
a
theme
setting
that's
the
new
setting,
it's
just
it's
it
might
work,
it
might
work
most
of
the
time.
I
just
think
it's
not
a
tool
we
want
people
to
learn
is
the
way
to
do
it
because
one
day,
it'll
probably
bite
them.
C
Can
I
just
my
objection
is
simpler,
which
is
just
that
the
user
I
have
in
mind
is
the
user,
who
isn't
touching
their
files
directly
at
all
right.
It's
the
user
who's
got
is
installed
it
through
soft,
delicious
or
or
whatever
or
they've.
You
know
some
other
site
where
they
click
an
installer
and
they
want
to
configure
their
theme
through
the
ui
and
they're,
not
touching
the
theme
files
right.
A
C
Then
that's
not
addressing
this
audience
right,
which
you
know
it
could
be
fine,
but
it
doesn't
solve
the
problem
that
I
posed
to
start
with,
which
is
I'm
trying
to
pose
an
option
where
you
can
go
in.
You
can
select
basis
and
you
can
use
it
reliably
and
flexibly
without
ever
looking
at
the
theme
files,
and
we
could
just
decide
that.
That's
not
realistic,
we
don't
support
that
for
basis.
No.
C
I
don't
want
to
do
that,
but
I
feel
like
some
people
are
basically
pushing
us
in
that
direction,
which
is
where,
where
we
can't
tell
the
user
that
they
can
just
use
basis
through
the
ui
reliably
and
safely
that
they
need
to.
You
know
that
they
have
to
have
skills
to
go
into
the
files
in
order
to
use
it
reliably
and
safely.
E
As
the
end
user
always
want
to
use
as
a
ui,
they
look
their
site
stable
and
first
they
don't
they're
lazy.
They
don't
want
to
work.
So
it's
is
core
or
something
that's
not
matter
they
matter.
If
you
update
core
themes,
always
it's
not
matter,
if
something's
not
break
broken,
they
will
don't
mind,
they
will
say
yes
go
on.
B
I
don't
think
that
I
don't
think
that
we'll
be
able
to
make
a
decision-
yes,
but
yeah,
okay,
but
so
to
put
you
so
to
put
your
mind,
that
is,
though,
team.
It's
not
that
no
one
is
looking
at
the
code,
because
I
personally
did
look
at
the
code
and
I
still
have
objections,
but
yeah.
C
C
B
The
yeah,
the
pull
request,
is
a
perfect
concept,
but
I
think
you
you're
aware
that
when
you
open
a
pull
request
or
if
you
edit,
the
first
comment
in
the
pull
request
and
you
put
the
keyword
fixes
and
then
a
link
to
the
issue,
then
there's
an
easy
link
on
the
sidebar
of
the
issue
that
points
to
the
poor
request
of
people.
I
didn't
know
how
to
do
that.
B
Okay,
so
all
you
have
to
do
is
just
edit
your
pull
request
and
the
first
comment
and
say
fixes
and
then
the
link
of
the
issue,
and
it
will
automatically
cross-link
it,
and
people
will
be
able
to
find
it
easy
life
or
all
go
the
old-fashioned
way,
which
is
edit.
The
the
first
comment
in
the
issue
and
just
add
the
link
there.
That's
usually.
F
Well,
we
should
move
on
possibly
to
the
next
meeting,
because.
A
A
There's
another
issue
under
design:
better
defaults
for
page
layouts,
specifically
placement
of
header,
breadcrumbs
tab
and
page
title.
I
don't
know
if
it's
worth
getting
into
that
today,
but
if
anyone
is
curious
about
it,
that
issue
number
is
four
one
one
three,
so
it
is
labeled
needs
more
feedback
than
he
wants
to
look
down.
Yeah.
C
I
added
that
to
the
agenda
because
I
just
wanted
to
talk
to
you
guys
about
it,
but
we'll
do
it
later.
It's
not
urgent.
Okay,.
A
All
right:
well,
let's
go
ahead
and
wrap
up
this
meeting,
we're
about
to
start
weekly
developer
meeting
at
one
o'clock,
so
if
anyone
is
interested
in
all
of
the
other
issues,
we're
working
on
you're
welcome
to
rejoin.
For
that
I
am
going
to
end
this
meeting.
I've
learned
that
I
don't
have
to
cancel
the
whole
thing.
I
can
just
stop
the
recording
and
then
start
it
up
again.
So
let
me
try
that
now
I'm
going
to
stop
the
live
stream.