Backdrop CMS Weekly, 13 Oct 2022

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From YouTube: 2022/10/13 - Backdrop Weekly Dev Meetings

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A

To say, go, you said fire away. It was very.

B

Confused hello, it's October 13th 2022, and this is the backdrop weekly developer meeting. We get together every week to talk about uh priorities and happenings in the backdrop community. uh Let's see we'll do some introductions to get started. My name is Nate Lampton I'm, quick sketch on the internet and I'm calling from Oakland California uh well go around the room here, we'll start with uh Luke and then Greg.

C

uh My name is Luke McCormick I'm, a web project manager in San, Ramon, California and I'm, apparently in the witness protection program. So I have my rethink the lighting on my situation. Here, uh let's go to Greg.

D

Hi I'm Greg I'm, joining from Melbourne Australia and uh yeah I've, been away from the community for a few months uh and I'm slowly trying to catch up and be useful again uh really excited about the upcoming drupa, South and backup Live Events uh next week uh see you.

B

Great thanks, Craig uh I'll go to Jen and then temp.

A

Foreign ton joining from Oakland California uh very excited about all of the cool stuff. We talked about in the Outreach meeting this week, so anyone who wasn't there should definitely go watch that video um and yeah lots of backdrop work in my present and future so very excited.

B

Thanks Jen uh Tim and then Martin.

C

My name is Tim Erickson I am Saint Paul Tim on the internet and in Deerwood Minnesota and uh just came back from backdrop live and got to spend some quality time with Nate and Jen and Luke and Irina live.

C

I'm excited about backdrop, live coming up and about that a bad Camp. Last week, I had a great time in Oakland uh Berkeley, um and it has me fired up in my head full of crazy ideas. So watch out. That's it.

B

Thanks Tim uh Martin.

E

uh I'm Martin from United Kingdom, um the mainly stuff income trip and uh um site developers, I'm working on a couple of sites at the moment, um brought to backdrop, live and uh um I have another discussion about b as well, um which I'm doing quite a bit of work on at the moment.

B

Excellent yeah that would be that would be great okay, um yeah I'm, guessing the Outreach meeting earlier. You guys talked about Bad Camp. Quite a bit is that is that true, okay, great well I, won't recap, then uh BAD Camp! It was a really excellent camp for backdrop in particular, um but yeah you can go back and listen to the Outreach meeting or I'll go back and listen to it and hear about that um Jen. uh There's a couple of well several Community uh items here. Do you want to cover all of these items? Sure.

A

So first and I think most exciting is we have a new Showcase in our website? There's a new uh sign for freedom.org webpage, Robert Gregory has posted that and um curious and yeah I would encourage everyone to go. Take a look. It's been a while, since we've had a new showcase site. So that's great uh also. We didn't have a meeting last week because of bad King, so I added some stuff here. That is two weeks old, but I did want to make sure that we thanked Mark for porting the empty paragraph killer module.

A

He created an issue in the queue got access to the control repository created a contrib project and created a release. Since the last time we met so I wanted to make sure that we gave him credit um and I I, looked at the module and was like oh I need this.

B

A

Immediately put it on some of my websites, so that was nice um and then, in speaking of new projects, uh there are two projects: I'm not sure we mentioned uh two weeks ago, so I'll mention just filter permissions and Twitter filters, which came out two weeks ago and then last week we had node property to block token block. Pantheon configuration deploy, empty pair killer and I think all the rest are this week, which is views, translation counties, countries, taxonomy views, random seed, memcache and web form share.

A

So we've had a ton of new modules in the last three weeks, which I think is really impressive. Also thank.

B

You yeah lots and lots of updates um yeah, it's great speaking like this meeting. We don't actually have a whole lot of items to discuss. Formally uh the uh there were no items in the Forum uh post for this week, so it's going to be a little bit loose and uh one thing that came up uh that memcache uh Port I worked on for a client of mine, we're trying to launch a site this month and uh the previous hosting provider was like well used, memcache on Drupal 7.

B

um and he was like. We should do that for backdrop and I was like sure, no problem. There was a problem. There was no part of memcache module uh and memcache module uh Just the Way It Was Written. uh It was like this weird mess of the way that variables were being used, so it was like a non -trivial upgrade moving it into. um You know configuration settings and state. You know like splitting up the three ways.

B

Various variables were being used into three proper, distinct systems in backdrop, but it's lot my opinion a lot better now than it was in in triple seven, um but it uh popped up a couple of core bugs actually because I this may be the first alternative cash back end that we have for backdrop uh that I've seen- and one thing in particular- is that the entity cache that went into backdrop core is using cash clear all in a way that cash, clear, all is uh trying to flush multiple uh entity IDs at the same time and there's a bug in the way that we have cash clear, all written that it doesn't work quite the same as it did in Drupal 7, and so it doesn't work.

B

It does work with the database backend. But that's just a coincidence. It's like the database frame or database abstraction layer, just coincidentally works with an array or a string, and so it just so happens to work on multiple items, but uh anyway, all of this sorry it's highly technical. It comes back to issue 2158, which is Mark cash.

B

Clear all is deprecated, because this wouldn't have happened if uh we weren't using cash clear all in the first place and I wasn't quite sure what to do here, because, like I've I've found two issues with cash, clear all that it doesn't work quite the way it used to and Drupal 7. uh and a part of me thinks we should fix cash clear. All the other part of me says we should just stop using it um so that issue 2158. If you read over it, you'll see why cash clear all is particularly bad function.

B

um If you look at the different operations it does, it literally can clear a single item, clear all items, clear some items with a prefix garbut execute garbage collection, do a full cache, clear or like it just like it just does like so many different things uh that are completely like unrelated operations and the name itself. Cash clear all is incredibly wrong because it clears everything like and sometimes it doesn't catch clear it. It uh invalidates our garbage collects.

B

So even just the word or the term clear is really confusing because it it doesn't mean it means too many things. So anyway, 2158 that's a little pet issue that I would love to see moving forward for uh 124 uh and it already has a pull request. It'd leave a comment based on my experience, supporting memcache, uh where the bug is in it that uh that we need to fix so.

B

uh Okay, let's see um other exciting things that have happened recently. uh Issue 4182 is another one of my favorite issues that um RG piano has worked on. That makes it so that the invalidate search index button. If you go to the search settings page, there's a very confusing button that says it's a big red button that says invalidate search index, and it has this big explanation about how clicking this button isn't going to do what you want.

B

It's literally like, if you click this button, like it's not going to do anything, but if you run cron enough times, then it might do something uh and issue 4182 switches that button from invalidate and run things on Chron operation to immediately indexing the site as soon as you click the button. So it says: hey this is going to index the site and then you click confirm, and then it shows your progress bar and indexes the entire site immediately, which is much much much better.

D

um I meant I was meant to add a review like from a ux perspective. I started typing something, and it's left in draft I'll finish it up over the weekend. It just kind of felt that most of the things in that page are settings, and then we have an action and it kind of felt that that action sort of like belonged somewhere else, because we have this pattern where we have like things that we configure and then things that we do and it's like in separate sections I think that maybe it's not exactly equivalent.

D

But views comes to mind right. You have the place where you configure and list views, and then you have a a a separate tab that says settings um but yeah I haven't I, haven't finished my thoughts I will as soon as possible and comment on that issue.

D

But I like the progress bar thing and the idea behind it, of yeah yeah batching things yeah.

B

Yeah, that's an interesting uh point and, and this spun out of um another progress bar related issue, which is the upgrade path from triple seven assigning a type to all file entities that you know, pngs need to be labeled as an image and uh impact Force need to be labeled as videos and and uh if you're, coming from triple seven all of the files don't have a type assigned to them, but they need one in order to work well as entities and rgpiano added a progress bar for that, because that was also done on cron jobs and was very nebulous how it worked.

B

um We also added status report message for that particular operation. You know: hey, there's files that need to be categorized like run that after you, you finished doing your your backdrop upgrade.

B

um It seems like potentially that could be done for search as well, especially if you turn on search module on an existing site. You need to tell people that you need to index in order for the search to work, and so maybe I'm not sure if we could do that.

B

Based on um you know, percentage index like if it's less than 80 indexed, you know throw a warning or if that's too arbitrary or if maybe just on install, we just said: hey, there's content you need to index and and took people over to the index page, but yeah you're right that it is it's a separate operation.

B

I'm not sure I'd want to move it in this issue, because I'm so excited about improving the button. That's there. You know that that uh moving it or referencing it in another place could be like a another. Another task separate from this one yeah.

D

B

Okay, um let's see if there's any other things related to contrib.

D

Yeah, if no one else has anything to bring up, I would like to bring up an issue that I would like feedback for.

B

D

uh 57 6-0 and it's the one where we basically show uh which image types and effects are being supported uh on the status page with some details. If people expand the thing without having to go and dig that information out from um PHP info, which is not you know, user friendly.

B

Okay, uh let's see uh GD, okay, okay, this is a status report, uh improvements.

D

Yeah, this all came I. Think someone asked the question I. Think Tim were you involved in this discussion on zulip as well. um You were trying to find whether you know how do I figure out if webp supported on my site or not, and what what it takes and then the most. How we usually answer to these questions is like go and dig in your PHP dot info file and see if this this section is available. If it has this parameter there, um so yeah, oh.

B

Yeah yeah- this is great. uh That's funny. I didn't even know that we describe whether or not rotate and desaturate was available. That seems really hilariously Antiquated that uh there that there was a time that that wasn't common as is it, is it always there now um I.

E

C

B

Knows yeah I remember it used to be like you had to compile GD, especially to get rotate and desaturate, but I think that that's probably been included by default for like 10 years. So.

D

It was there, it was not added with this. It's just I structured, more the UI and added with the uh information. What I need more like I I appreciate any kind of feedback, but I need uh more suggestions with regards to awarding and clarifying things.

D

um I try to make it more obvious, uh but then I see that all I've said uh provided some feedback, because I said uh uh partial support of our foreign formats and effects right. But if I say then all image formats and effects supported. I I imply all images that we and for much that we were meant to support. But by reading all the image formats someone might say that everything's supported right, which is very so I'm. Looking for more, you know, text or word crafting there to make it better.

B

Yeah, you know that this gets into I'm, not sure if, like this is probably only GD that we're concerned about, because um I can't remember if GD GD supports a huge number of images image formats but image magic, Sports, even more um and I I can't remember if I'm getting them mixed up or not. But you know I think GD can even read very unusual image formats like Photoshop files.

D

I can I can look into it, but I think that these formats, that are there it's the ones that we support by default when people can configure image Fields, that's why we have that there as a sort of like yep. When you add an image build, this is meant to be supported, but is it actually supportive? So so so this is yeah. What we're trying to get out of this.

B

Yeah, that sounds great. um Does this um image formats are explored to webp in particular, um can you give me a refresher on where our webp support stands uh across backdrop? Oh.

D

Yes, I think that um I'm very diligent with cross-linking issues, so in that issue, unless I wasn't that digital diligently I think it was issue 4189, but just bear with me bear with me which, with which we added support. Oh no! It's not that one they're with me.

D

But we did as far as I can remember back in 2017 as because that we added uh official web D support so long as as JD the PHP that the PHP was compiled. With support for that.

B

And that, but that was for, um for what, for uploading or for image Styles or both both.

D

I think yeah, because GD supports it as well.

B

Yeah, that's great. The most common use case. I've seen for webp, isn't one that we support but might be handled by contrib and that's um then kind of gnarly issue of um image. Format. Changing like I want to upload a PNG but I'll put webp um and that's not supported by core.

D

um No, it is it is. We have another issue by that and team I bet you I muted yourself to mention that, because yeah, so what we have is we have another issue where uh we have a an image. An image style effect that convicts import, that is, that converts JPEG to webp, but it fails to change the extension of the file. Oh.

B

D

So we're trying to fix that uh is that cross-linked or do you have the ticket number there team handy, no.

C

No actually I thought this was a contrib module that was doing. Was it I didn't know? This was in court, I. Think.

D

That I think it's a.

C

It's the image effects: contrib module is it I could be wrong and I think glaring, just well no I. Take that back. I was going to say, I thought he just submitted a PR to fix that, but that might be something else. Yeah.

B

I think I think I'm looking at core right now we only have crop to saturate resize, rotate scale and scale and crop so.

D

Right right sure.

B

D

B

To be shock that doesn't even seem like it should be in core, because.

A

There's there's also a webp can drive module. That could be doing some of that too.

C

Yes, I, don't think webp module uses the image formats. Does it does something else, but I've been looking into both of those and yeah yeah and I would love to the web? P1 is the one we had trouble with today, but it wasn't downloadable from backdrop.org because of that packaging problem, but I think uh Greg sorted that out.

D

Yeah and uh just as a general comment from the support uh desk that I do with my daily job. It's more and more uh digital agencies are Keen to cut down on five size of media assets and provide more Speedy pages. So there's more and more requests about web B and SVG, and things like that um now, whether that's something that should be handled by post, a discussion I'm just bringing up.

A

Yeah I'm doing the same.

C

B

Why I've been asking.

C

About it lately.

B

Okay, yeah, that's great yeah, the um in the Drupal worlds. I found a problem with that module that does do webp conversions, but does also exchange change. The file extension that it, um if you upload the same file, name twice with two different extensions, then the they start clobbering each other, because the image style doesn't know which one it should actually pull from when it's requested, and so it's like another. Just like oh boy, you know got that to worry about too.

B

uh Great, um let's see other items speaking I want to touch on the packager really quickly, because uh Tim raised an issue with all of the new contrib modules that are coming out. He noted that the packager isn't working quite correctly on a couple of them and uh I looked a little bit into this I'm sorry I haven't found an issue, yet it looks like GitHub made a change on their side.

B

That is unexpected by uh the backdrop side, which is, they started, making more granular web hooks where, instead of firing one web hook for a new release, there's now three web hooks to get fired for release which I think it includes like uh created, published and then released so I, don't exactly I guess you know. That's like unpublished versus not published, release, notes I guess, um but the problem is: is that now backdropcms.org, depending on how fast you are about creating a release, gets 3?

B

Three separate requests that try to package a release all at the same time, and so Tim noted that one of the contrib modules that was released last week got two nodes: two release nodes and two package nodes and then I tried to fix it and I broke it worse. So now that needs to be yet to be sorted and then the memcache module I'm not quite sure what happened with that. It didn't get a release, it got a release, node and a release.

B

Sorry got a node project node and a release node, but it didn't get a package and so I think that the frequency of github's uh requests might be causing uh backdrop cms.org some strain. It's not made to handle concurrent requests for the same project.

D

Yeah notice this when I try to fix the releases for image web B earlier today, um when you try to create a release in the GitHub UI there, there's always like there's an option there. That has always been there, which is a checkbox. That says this is a pre-release, but uh the submit buttons have now changed.

D

First of all, when you start to create a release, it doesn't say create, but it says draft a release, and then you have two options: either publish the release or save as draft, so maybe that's related to those API changes that you just mentioned sounds like these three options: yeah.

B

Yeah, so what I'd like to do is.

B

uh I was gonna say like we could solve this in potentially two ways. Let me see what what the actual options are here. Oh no I was gonna say that we could modify the web hook to send fewer events.

B

That would be an easy way to solve that or we can solve fix the PHP code side, where we just need to start ignoring some of the requests that come through um and now that I look at the options in GitHub there's only an option for like releases as an event, but then you don't get to choose the granularity of the event. So once you say, send me release information. It's going to start sending you all of the release information, even if they're yeah new new things that we hadn't thought about before.

B

So we just need to start paying more carefully and granular with our response actions.

B

um This is also interesting. You know geez looking at the stuff that GitHub now provides.

B

um Github now has um packages and I'm not quite sure what packages do yet, but GitHub now has a more formal concept of this. Is the downloadable package of this particular thing, which is what we do and what we want um and I'm not quite sure what kind of features it gives us, but there's just a lot that we're not utilizing uh now at this point of course, yeah man there's so much stuff on GitHub that we could be doing to improve it.

B

I like I, would love if uh I love, if we could consolidate the issue, queue and the pull request, but I'm not sure if that's ever going to happen at this point um it used to be that we didn't have the granular permissions and so GitHub actually recommended doing that. That was a a recommendation. I wish. We hadn't followed at this point, because it's just it's just confusing, oh well, uh all right, um great uh I, think Martin. You also had a topic you wanted to discuss.

B

We've got some time if you want to bring it up.

E

um Yeah, it was module. I was part. uh I'm voting, I've I've released it with a kind of note about a work around for this issue, um but in a web form share and it basically um it stores the configuration of the web form um into uh it. Output it can export it and I've it. The the Drupal 7 version did it in uh PHP array definition, I've done it in a Json uh definition and what you can as well as just importing it, and that all works, absolutely fine.

E

You can set it as a default for the content type.

E

So whenever you create con the idea being that whenever you create content it uh it uses that and creates a web form with that configuration um and uh so I'm using hook, node insert um um I can pull in the config and that works fine and I output it in Watchdog and that works fine and then I try and do backdrop Json decode, which I'm using in all the other functions, and it just returns.

E

It just turns it into a one, um whereas in all the other places I've used it, it works, and it turns it into an array that can then build the web form.

E

So it it it's a very odd one.

E

Has spent ages on it and then just sort of gable released it put an issue out and uh but I I can't think. If there's any I looked at the documentation, I couldn't see any reason why a hook node insert would behave any differently to any of the other actions.

B

um Is there, um let me ask a couple of background questions: are you using the Windows machine.

E

uh I am but it's on uh WSL to uh Linux, so it's it's actually in a Linux machine that I'm using it.

B

Well, my my first guess um is that it's not about uh Json D code being inside of node save. It may be because of um copying and pasting um that when you copy and paste uh the line, endings might get changed to Windows line endings instead of Linux ones and Json decode might be choking on the line. Endings um I don't know that for certain, but it's a possibility that Json decode just it's not, uh it might not have anything to do with the saving. It might have everything to do with effect.

B

There's a copy paste operation involved and and the line endings get changed while it's in the clipboard. That's that's a.

E

B

I would take.

E

I did I did try to rule that out, so I I turned off pretty print, so I how I outputted it as just a solid block of Json just to try and eliminate all the issues and the same block. That's the same box, that's stored in config.

E

It will work if you do the reset option, which is what I've put as a workaround. So you using the exactly the same stored information for that and that works. It just doesn't work when I try and do it in Hook, node insert.

B

Yeah I don't know.

B

So this is backdrop Json decode, that's um which I think okay, yeah literally just calls.

C

B

It does nothing except for the associative option to True uh yeah. That's literally the only thing it does. Yeah.

E

um I did try just with the Raw Json decode PHP function and it it built had the same issue. It just didn't work so I I, just interestingly before I converted it to Json and it was using the um a vowel function. It had a the D7 version. It had a a helper function. That was calling you Val um to do it and again that didn't work in book node insert, but it did work in the other places.

E

So it didn't seem to be just that module, but it it really I I just couldn't work it out. So I've left it for now and just put an issue there.

B

Okay, yeah I I, don't have any other real good ideas. That strange thing strangest thing is that it's returning a value of one.

E

B

That means that it part it, it thinks that it parsed it successfully and the value of the Json is the number one if it was null uh or something else like I think null is the the value that happens. If it encounters an error, then that would be you know, there's something that went wrong when it was decoding it rather than it just decoding it incorrectly.

C

B

um Yeah I, don't know, maybe maybe uh uh checking different environments might also be worth it go.

A

B

Know maybe spin up a tugboat sandbox from the home page and then install.

E

B

Module there and see.

E

B

So it works differently.

B

That's that's all I got.

B

uh Let's see anything else.

B

From Martin or from anyone, um well, we I know you probably did this last meeting Tim but yeah give us a pitch for backdrop. Live I know, that's coming up uh not this weekend, but the next one. So it's around the corner.

C

Sure, a week from tomorrow, we have back prop live um as usual, we're asking for a 20 donation, uh but if you can't uh do that, that's okay I'll quickly share my screen. Registration is open, I'm logged in as an admin registration, it's open. It has been um really quickly, we'll look at the schedule. If anybody has things they want to get on the schedule, um we a couple of interesting things.

C

We have this time uh we have representatives from the software Freedom Conservancy, going to be meeting with us to talk about their work and the work we're doing with them. uh Opensource.Com, hopefully uh Volkswagen trick. uh Any June will be. There talk a little bit about how we can, as a community use uh that we've also have the lead. uh The product manager for zulup is going to come and talk to us about you, wow and uh We've.

C

We've uh Jen and I have met with her before, but we're going to just talk, she's going to give us a little bit more information about the Zula project and then also you know sort of maybe give us some advice on how we could better use it. uh I think the other exciting thing is, we do have backdrop for beginners, so three part sort of beginner session for somebody who's absolutely new to backdrop, an introduction to content types and Fields and introduction to views and an introduction to layouts a bunch of other interesting stuff.

C

I know Nate's planning a really fascinating, interesting session that he hasn't told me about yet, but that'll be coming up soon. So there we go. That's it so register now helps spread. The word get people signed up.

B

Yeah I saw uh the mailer went out um yesterday. I think it was uh that immediately had a return on uh sign. Ups I think I saw four signups come through in the last 24 hours, so sure sure anyway, that.

C

Was great the last week very.

B

Nice newsletter, thank you, Tim. Thank you. Go ahead. uh Okay, uh let's see uh any other items that we've got. um That's all that I have for today. As far as the agenda goes, um I'm gonna bring it up, even though I'm not prepared to talk about it. One more time that um man, the thing I I really uh would like most right now is the uh renting the the GitHub lending issue. The Indie gazelle has been working on and I think this is my fault, basically or or everyone, except for zella's fault.

B

Actually, because she's done the work, it's working and I think it's ready and we just need to go and check it out and I think that that would really um be a tremendous asset.

B

um At this point, maybe it's not like incredible, but um you know getting over this initial hey. We need the thing to actually be. There. I think we'll unlock a lot of potential to make it so that we have really excellent linting tools. um Moving forward.

D

There's also look there's also. Drupal also has a list of um uh dictionary sort of like for typos, and you can specify Words, which is done through the CI like through the testing. uh It would save us a lot of time with typos that, like we, you often see many issues about typos. You know tiny mistakes that we do yeah.

B

Totally like a backdorp, you.

D

Know like yes, exactly.

B

Just like save ourselves, the embarrassment of the typo and our product name, yeah,.

C

We we can talk about it, but let's at least mention quickly: the the Drupal to backdrop, migration module that we started sprinting on last week at badcamp um I mean it's been around for a while doc will not ported it, but it needs testing.

C

um It could be a really valuable asset to the community to help Port more Drupal 7 sites to backdrop, but we just need some people to help sort of test it and open some issues. I think.

B

Yeah and I'll give a quick recap conceptually of what it does.

C

B

Amazing uh leveraging of existing tools um it uses, uh so the project is called D to B, migrate, uh Drupal to backdrop migrate and uh uses backup migrate, module to specify an external database, the triple seven database, and then uh then it Imports it into your backdrop site.

B

um There's a couple of issues filed uh well, one issue: if I was backup and migrate, that makes it so that you can insert a port number for the testing that we were doing. That turned out to be pretty important, um because we were using Pantheon sites as the source, the Drupal 7 site and um those all require custom port number, but yeah I didn't actually get very far in in testing it because we couldn't get past the first couple of steps, but um yeah it'd be really curious to see exactly how it does it.

B

I imagine can conceptually that it runs the update path on it. I don't know, do you know Tim like or Greg no.

D

But just related to that and something that we can discuss it's a good subject for a bachelor of live when it comes to easier moving easily from D7 to um backdrop, two things as complaints, I've heard- maybe a misunderstood things, but I have heard that have bypassed the they have managed to get Drupal 7 themes work as they are, so there's less work to be done.

D

Eventually, it will need to be like I, don't know they if I recall correctly, that they had a layout a custom layout and they put everything in it like a single region or something like that, and they render everything in there. Something like that. But a that's one and I know that we shouldn't officially uh sort of like include it in core, but at least make sure that we support it.

D

If people don't have the budget or the resources to convert the themes uh and as I said, I could be wrong about this, and the second bit was um I've heard a lot of people not a lot, but many people complain about the things that we've removed, namely uh the database obstruction layer and the what's. The other thing. That's related anyway. My point is turn into field storage. That's it! That's it right!

D

My point is that we have sales screen that that does that, but is there any way not to reintroduce those in core but add hooks that allow those to be implemented as modules that can be installed added to backdrop as modules from the project browser.

A

D

A

Think we should worry about it. This is less than one percent of anyone coming from Drupal and those people are probably moving to Drupal, 9 and Drupal. 10. I think it's something that people are curious about because they want to know what the difference is between Drupal and backdrop. But I would be really surprised if we had any websites who legitimately wanted to move to backdrop who needed those.

D

A

D

But this circle, although a bit popular like I, saw the other day that the WordPress managed to get a release out. That runs without a PHP server right, but it requires SQL. Yes, I'll post a link to that thing, but.

B

It was a database server, you mean surely not without PHP, without.

D

Php in browser- yes right and also, but it uses SQL Lite- we could have looked into if we could do that with backdraw. But we don't support super light. That's that's why I was bringing up all these related issues just making it easier for people. You know to check things out anyway, I'll post a link to that thing about WordPress, but I just wanted to to see like to explore the potential. If, like we introduced a hook, that would allow contrib to come and plug in anyways.

A

No I mean a lot of the reason that backdrop is so much faster than it was in Drupal. 7 is because we removed all of the mess and core that made that possible. So I think that we shouldn't shouldn't worry about it and I. Think silk screen is doing a great job of that and we should direct people there if they need it.

D

My understanding there was my understanding, though, was that we removed the actual support for these things, and this is what made it faster I'm, not saying that we should introduce support for these things in core, but the ability, instead of having a fork of backdrop for these to be.

A

Like modules, it's the same, it's the same thing like support and core um was stuff all over everything in order to make it work and so like, even if we put the hook back in it wouldn't work. If we, unless we didn't put all of this stuff, all.

D

A

D

Like complexity in court, okay, cool.

B

Yeah well, there's I mean actually the um the the removal of it had very little impact, um especially like the database back ends because, literally just like the database, abstraction layer is still there, but we only have one supported database now, MySQL and derivatives, um and literally just the line where it says. Like look for other plugins, we just don't have the line anymore. That looks for other plugins. We only load the MySQL one, that's hard coded there now.

A

B

We've also refactored.

A

Like a bunch of queries so that they won't work with postgres anymore, because they were had funny optimizations, there's like weird stuff, that's yeah very slowly been getting eaten at over.

B

Yeah, the the really key thing I think, is that we put date module in core and that uses date, native MySQL fields and postgres doesn't have the same date: management fields, and so in the world of Drupal. They ended up using text fields for dates, uh which then incurs massive overhead when you start doing date, operations on text Fields, um so there's that that very real thing and I'm, not sure silk screen, probably just says, don't use dates. You know.

E

B

Don't use these certain types of dates, uh it's probably the way that it it manages to function.

C

C

Did that change the syntax that database calls in modules.

B

It it made it so that there's less caution necessary um because uh there's this tradition in Drupal, 7 to use double, quotes around database queries and single quotes inside of the query itself and that's a postgres support thing um and in my SQL it doesn't care whether using double quotes or single quotes, and so there's also like that aspect that always crops up in contrib modules that people like this database query, isn't postgres compatible because nobody.

A

C

Nobody, nobody.

B

Notices but yeah, and so it's just kind of this problem that people repeatedly stumble over because it only happens- and you know point two percent of sites. You know, uh but then eventually people just kind of learn. You know they learn the pattern that you use. Double quotes on SQL queries. It's a completely arbitrary requirement um that is, is driven by postgres, so uh anyway, uh Food For Thought, um but now we're we're at the top of the hour. I'm sorry I'm gonna.

C

B

Abruptly um because I.

C

B

Like wait, lots of time and then suddenly we're all done so um yeah, let's, let's wrap up for today. um Thank you all for for being here back to up, live and uh 10 days and that that's right.

C

B

Or eight days, okay, uh yeah and we'll see everybody.