Backdrop CMS Weekly, 22 Dec 2016

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From YouTube: Backdrop Weekly 12/22 (debate last few issues)

Description

Today’s development agenda: https://goo.gl/dB5AJi

A

Hey we are on air, it is thursday december twenty seconds. uh We are getting down to the nitty-gritty for stuff going into backdrop 16, which is pretty exciting um thanks all for joining. Let's see. What's on the agenda, oh, we have a shortened agenda. This week um we decided to only talk about items for backdrop 16, which is pretty exciting.

A

So, do you want to just start I think.

B

You've got a better hold on some of these, and I do I have been going through the needs review uh and the RTP c qs just today actually and so I cleared out the RTP CQ bumped, one back to me to work March 02 and have been going through.

B

The needs, review, Q and possibly a lot of those affected need to work as well, but some of them, but some of them are going in for sure, especially the more simpler, more simple issues coming from Gregory that often it like type typography like fixes- and things like that. So so it's great, we are seeing some forward movements happening there, but not on any island gotten run to these larger issues. Yet so, let's talk about the ones that aren't you jinda. I.

A

Also, I noticed that um Jeff, you merged a bunch of stuff this week too. So thanks for your attention to those as well.

B

Okay, so the first item on the road map for 1.6- that is a critical item- is the reference module two chord which is issued 1301 the status where we last left it is that it needed tests and an upgrade path. I saw there was some activity regarding tests Mike. Would you be a good person to cover that.

C

Sure there's been some but I, mostly just fixed. The one test, I haven't, had a chance to add more tests, I'm kind of intimidated by all the tests that we need to add and I don't even know where to begin so any help with that would be appreciated.

C

There's been some review of modules and people tried it up. Some additional issues have been created.

C

Mostly around UX stuff but Olaf, and then one to one feature: requests which are probably not going to do, which is to like add references when you can like sort of create references through a pop-up when you go to add them to a node which is sort of an extended thing that will have to do either later or in contribu. And then there is a good point that some of the and these actually don't have you modes right now.

C

So there's no way to display a rendered file, since a rendered file doesn't have a view mode attached to it, which we should probably detect a entity that doesn't have one of those. So um yeah.

B

C

What's happening now, I have a list of things. This will need to do so yeah. We need to work on that.

B

Okay, so it sounds like lots of things yet to be done a little bit of progress there, which is always appreciated, though um anything else on reference module. Anybody else have anything to add that is reportable.

B

Okay, how's the upgrade path coming to.

A

Any of you, mother,.

C

A

B

Thing is that this was but okay yeah. We definitely need to have some serious progress, effort put into internet and we're.

C

We're with us, where would the upgrade path be coming from.

A

So we've got into two: we've got to do one for for um getting texana me terms move over, and then we have to do one from Drupal 7 entity. Reference and gate will be nice to do references to, but that's not currently on my to-do lists. Yeah.

C

It's like this one of the things I'm not sure how to do an upgrade path from across the different modules right.

A

C

We have any other examples where we've done and we're we're upgrading from one module, two entirely different model to handle things differently. There.

A

Are examples in the Drupal world like there was a lot of stuff from Drupal 6 to Drupal 7, where you had to change modules and in this case in particular like there's, a specific type of field that we can search for. So you can say if there was an entity reference field, then we know the schema of the entity reference table and we can pull the stuff out of that bold field, but it isn't going to be using any of the like functions in the old entity.

A

Reference model soon have those it'll just be direct database queries. So.

C

How would like the existing upgrade for when you upgrade something goes? Is it just through the database upgrade process yeah.

B

C

Like but this sort of seems that, since you can see radically be migrating a bunch of different stuff to reference or not, it almost seems like it should be somehow optional. Whether or not you want to upgrade like if you're pulling in a Drupal 7 site may be optional, which now.

A

There's only one solution in back trap, then there's no option yeah.

B

But the weird thing is right: now there are options like it's very I, don't know reference and use of reference. That's a book. There are.

C

Different options they provide, they provide slightly different functionality like you know, even though we're building everything in the reference module they're still slightly different tweaks in the references modulated, no reference and use a reference and stuff like that, they've some additional field that people could want to use. There was talk about the the.

C

The allowing different entity types to be referenced, I forget what the drupal module is that lets you do that we sort of abandoned doing that in backdrop in core, but someone could still want to switch over to using that module instead, where they can select, have one field. It's like different entity types right like there's. There are a.

A

Lot of crazy use cases for people can dry and do anything and migrate. Anything, that's not what we're supporting in for, but.

C

We don't recall mood there, your prom tune, everything and.

A

Everybody needs to be using that thing and if they want something, cust they're gonna have to write their own clothes for that yeah.

C

But the problem is: is that there's no way to have the database update, not wrong? Well,.

A

That's fine because those people are going to be needing to like if they're going to be migrating from whatever Corps does to something else. There a path is going to go from whatever poured us to whatever they choose so.

B

Well, let's maybe step back and say: okay from what you're saying, I, think you're saying that node reference and user reference wouldn't be updated, but in indy reference would because that's essentially what we had putting forward great.

A

Whoa, what do you mean wouldn't be up.

B

To like, oh, like from Drupal 7, if I was using no reference on drupal 7, they only all right.

A

B

Two would be these no reference on backdrop for the.

A

Node reference module or just like cck, where, when you install it, it'll, include an upgrade content thing. That'll, take you from node reference in Drupal 7 to reference in that truck. Okay,.

B

So that would not be part of core right.

A

B

Not something we action, so you're talking about an upgrade path for entity reference at.

A

This point well more important than any reference, because I don't think, there's anybody running and any reference for Brad aura from groups right would be the taxonomy term. Okay thing, but I think that second most important is anyone using entity reference in Drupal 7 doesn't.

C

Have an interview.

A

Reference solution, shin and backdrop- and there should be enough great fast, but not too- we.

C

Haven't figured out how to handle the widget in like for right now again, the the taxonomy reference field provides custom widgets that allow, instead of using IDs that allow taxonomy terms to be just listed by name. It allows options to create taxonomy terms at the existing Technic. If you type in, like you know book or something like that, and if the book term doesn't exist, it'll go and create it yeah you don't we don't have that functionality in reference like we're, not supporting everything that texana me well,.

A

C

A

Right now, what's it, we can't put reference in reference pour in until we do, and that doesn't mean that it needs to like this is a salt problem in Drupal. 8 is a solve problem in taxonomy term itself. We just need to figure out how to solve a problem so.

B

We have additional features, dance right, so.

C

It's like we're not talking about upgrade process, but if you want to like it's like a wheel, Blake.

C

A

So my problem is that if we have I just went through this looking at like node q module, so maybe it wasn't there.

A

Some module is working on a triple seven, where, if we have more than one way to do the same thing in for every contribute wants to add like a field, widget is going to have to write that code twice once for texana may turn in once for reference, and that's not that's like in our printables, it says we're taking the burden for core to prevent, contribute at so the fact that, like we just say, oh, we don't care we're not going to do it, we're going to make it so that and users don't know which field to use and contribute a nurs have to maintain price as much, but that's not suitable and it doesn't like I know it's not done now and we only have like two weeks to do it, but I.

A

It's really important that we think.

C

I, yes, but I think we have some more fundamental discussions here around like if we have a widget that can create entities on the fly, as you just type in names like how that interacts with like the whole entity API and whether that will work. I, don't want to create just like a taxonomy widget within the reference module that.

A

C

Or taxonomy, if there's no point in doing that, because we don't actually make anything simpler, so the question is: is whether we have a widget that can create any entity type on the fly, and that would right now like we know, we can't do that. Like um okay,.

A

File that doesn't have to assault problem until later like we can, it does.

B

Because look and put.

A

The widget in for taxonomy term now and will have exactly the same features we had before. It will have an upgrade path and we'll have one schema to worry about, and then, if we want to expand it to work for other references, we can figure out how to do that later. Like that's, not a blocker for getting it in well.

B

Anything when you talk about that functionality, just as a conduit, how are we going to solve that problem? That's an issue. You mean we played well. We need to figure it out before the release for sure I mean because we, if you're, going to replace taxonomy terms. Yes, we need a replacement that works with text on returns with the babies right.

A

Right now we need to be right now, if we can do that, that's the big thing, but then how do we, as Mike said, not do something that only works for texting on me like? How can we provide that feature that works for other than any references need to figure that out.

C

But that would.

A

Be a feature addition, we could deal with anything.

C

But here's the thing: it's like a reference field, but the data structure is like pretty isn't just a field that has that hasn't just an ID number of the entity. That's referencing the actual data structure behind like the reference field, there's nothing to that all of the code for the reference module is basically around the the widgets for entry and the for matters and, like you know the view integration so I mean excess. Just throwing is a completely different for matter just for taxonomy terms like that's like that's what.

A

Gives backwards? Compatibility is important to us. Well,.

B

It couldn't be something I mean I, think we need a solution for taxonomy right.

A

Breaks is saying that.

B

He wants something: that's nice right. We.

C

Have we have one in court right now? Let's just you know, yeah.

A

We can't just say we're: gonna leave every feature that ever existed in core and let contribute all the like work. That's involved in supporting all of us. That's just not not their day. Contributors.

B

Yeah, here's one option: I mean we could make, so we could have the widgets as they are right now and I'm, not really sure how easy this would be to accomplish, but like taxonomy module could alter the widget for autocomplete to make it support, creating terms right and that way, there's no actual API, there's just kind of taxonomy modules, extending the widget. That's already there yeah.

A

It will to give it.

B

You know create on the fly kind of functionality, say.

A

Like that, but what yeah I don't know, I need to look at the code before I can make any actual comments on whether that sort of name is possible. Like there's a bunch of stuff that we couldn't do with taxonomy term, we can do with entity reference that makes a lot more complicated and I a poor malter might not give you the information we need about. That feels to be able to make those assumptions yeah.

B

I mean we're all saying the same thing in two different ways that basically we don't want something time fast and use two different ingenious.

A

Device and what good did get my sis.

B

Have passed exactly yeah I.

A

Just don't want to see this go in and then like what what is harmed is our contributor community or end users.

C

Yeah I mean I, think I think we don't need I'm, just saying that we don't need to solve this taxonomy term. For this relief like we can always remove the other technologies.

A

If that's the case, then reference shouldn't go into core in this release. Until we.

C

A

How to get people onto it like we have a contributing, keep working on there, but I want it in four, so I want I want to solve the problem. We just we're in that time.

C

Yeah but I mean like we can do that database update that switches everything over from the taxonomy reference field to like the reference field. We can do that anytime, so I mean like you. Look like that's not bit like you know having the reference in core, where people would just start referencing nodes and users, and things like that seems a lot more important than those.

A

Things separate every contribute to write their code that affects those things to way right so, like you have to write something that works for an entity, reference field and a taxonomy term field, and now we're going to have to say well, let's test the version of backdrop and if it's between 15 and 16, then I, then I have to use two separate pieces of code and if it's 17 minutes, 10 you're.

B

So saying that a module would go to the effort of actually doing that they could just say you got to be using reference module and that's it yeah I mean that's.

A

Another thing that hurts our users right right: it's.

B

Like I, don't created from Drupal 7.

A

B

C

This feature yeah.

A

So it's just a you know, trying to figure out I, don't know how many users we need to worry about today, like we don't have a lot like we could just say like what's another three months, um but it is something we need to think about like as a part of our world like in Drupal. This wasn't necessarily an issue, but in backdrop, it's like we're supposed to be thinking about what it's like for users and contributors more than integral words ago, every module to see whatever they want. Yeah.

B

Mike to already have an issue, a sub issue in the reference module for autocomplete like create on demand. Oh.

B

A

One somewhere, it might even be in horse so yeah.

C

We don't have, we don't have an issue in.

B

C

Know right, checked, ok,.

B

Let's, okay: let's stop! Let's move a discussion about auto complete and how we deal with that special widget, whether it becomes a like somebody talks. What about me all over glee, because we had a little complete already if taxonomy in any type people's taxonomy then allow you know generate on demands that would afford any api's but have to be kind of ugly and.

A

We also wanted to look at how Triple A did it too, because they figured it out yeah.

B

They may have very well in any types, bad yeah, so there's just a checkbox that says a lot of creation, humanities in the autocomplete widget and it's it's not very bright like it literally just says you know entering the label and then it.

A

Automated and that's all that it.

B

Does like it, you and you can end up with like broken in adhesive, like fields that aren't there required that and.

A

B

A

What we wanted to either but yeah.

B

But it is really simple and for many people that, like.

A

B

Actually be really useful to autocomplete in, like a whole bunch of notes or something that.

A

I, let go so later, yeah, it's the same.

B

Way, taxonomy term to work today, taxonomy terms can have additional fields and they might be required, but I.

A

Still have to go the other jet exam, but.

B

Yeah, so it's not really very much different. Okay.

C

Yeah means that there's one other minor issue that I want to discuss with the reference and it's around access checks. There is a ticket, that's saying, oh well, we need to do well. We need to add more access, text, access checks when displaying rendered nodes and make sure that no rendered nodes get displayed to people who don't have permission to see them, but the other part of that is the autocomplete I believe. There's also it's either mentioned in that or mentioned in a separate field like doing access checks on all the autocomplete options.

C

I was actually planning more towards making sure that the autocomplete, like callback, can only be accessed if you have permission to edit the field. So, basically, like you know, the access check is actually making sure that the person who's logged in has access to edit the field. When it's added to the specific, like it's called.

A

C

A

Level access like that in court, I.

C

Don't know exactly but like it that we can I think we do have access I have to look into this more. But basically my goal is to sort of check that like if this field at the reference field is on a blog post content type that when the autocomplete is called, it would check that the user has access to edit the blog post content type and not necessarily on the content, that's being referenced.

C

Yes, the content being referenced is sort of set in the auto when you're setting up the reference field, you're, saying I want the person reference users and you can even say I want the poor like or taxonomy terms, the only published, taxonomy terms or something I.

B

C

I feel like like that, and it just shows titles so.

B

Yeah this I, this actually isn't very difficult, like we actually have a central web managing that I think that it might be like you might be, making it more difficult than it. Actually, it really needs to be like I feel like last last time. We talked about this as well and I didn't express it anywhere in writing, and maybe that's the problem that it's really the query that you have. You add a tag to. It give add tag method and now all access checking on the listing, yeah yeah.

C

I, like I, I think that the access is like. I don't think we should do that like I, don't think we should worry about it. I think that when someone creates the field they're, actually like the actual I, don't think we need to worry about filtering the results of the autocomplete.

A

C

A

That's a big deal because there could be a whole bunch of stuff. You don't want your editor, seeing like nodes that are of the same type of something else and if they start typing stuff in there and like fine things. That could be bad news, but.

C

Like but here's the thing it's like you already went setting up the reference field, you can say: I only want nodes of blog types that are published right.

A

There's only one blog notes: there publish that you don't want people to see. That's why we have this complicated access system right. Is that it's a lot more complicated than a node type, because.

B

It could be something like Tex on the access controlled or some other axis control module that is providing access to a subset of nodes within a particular type like you could have forums that were access controlled to certain users, and it's all you know, forum posts, but there's definitely some porn forum posts. You want users to see other forum posts that they don't have access to. You don't want them to see like how that how that I cook being controlled. It's controlled through the note access system which, in.

C

Okay listing, but the problem is that the note access system isn't specifically for node and we don't have a general end of the exit system. Yeah.

B

That's what I'm trying to say is that we actually do have a general system for filtering queries per entity type and it's Universal across all types of access, node, access, user access, taxonomy term access, it's consistent in every way on the only one that is used. Frequently, though, is no taxes, it's actually all there, even in Drupal, 7, okay, yeah and so so. Yeah again like we just need to get that at.

A

B

We need to describe how to solve the problem. Look not verbally is an.

A

B

That that kind of falls from user there's.

A

Nation that there.

B

Is an issue for that one yeah, okay, like it I, can go over there and actually post a response. Actually, even a port fest estaba solve that particular problem.

B

Okay, that actually in theory, should make it so that we don't actually need to have very strict access control on the eaglet on the field, young, the autocomplete callback itself, but I think that that's it's a very good idea for us to check access to the callback. To say like does the user? Have permission to you know create the type of entity that on which the field is position in the first place, is basically some kind of field level access control, but I'm, like you say, I, don't think we don't.

A

Think Warren court, but we.

B

Can check if they have access to create an entity of that type? They weren't written form if they didn't, but the autocomplete is at a separate URL. Oh I see so you don't want to just be.

A

C

In the URL yeah be all of the listings, yeah yeah.

B

Okay, something.

C

Do we have a is there in the enemy systems we have like that, like access check to see of user can create an entity of a certain type in bundle, I, don't.

B

Think we do but yeah.

C

That's another another.

B

C

B

Sexy I'm not totally sure about that I think we might have something in hockey entity info. But if we don't, we probably need to add something or Canadian for like what's the create excess combat, and then we would use that pull that out of hook, entity info and use that in the access check, I'm, not totally sure what to know Canadian from. But if it's not there, we just add it, and it's not that bad.

B

Okay, um we've got other issues right. We have another one whew.

A

So um entity view modes. There has been so much amazing feedback on that issue. A whole bunch of people of intestine 8, which is great I'm working on a new poll, request thing corporate's a couple: the last recommendations which is sourced or the action links add a new on View mode, just a commit for that rearranging the table.

A

I'm not really sure we have a a super, solid plan, I'm going to try on a couple a couple of recent recommendations in the queue there for that one and trying to make it look a little bit more like layouts you I right now we're in layout see why we have default layout to the bottom of the list and the view modes.

A

You might we're going to need to figure out how to put default at the top of the list, but um I haven't figured that out yet so it's currently at the bottom and then we're gonna, try and figure out how to um uh yeah. We need some up with terminology on that page. Like wording, we tried to put some help text in there. um That's so on in progress. I think it's coming along. If anyone hasn't seen that I would definitely recommend taking a look at it, we did sort of rethink the field.

A

You I display a page where you used to go to manage to slay someone half the default display right there and you would manage that one, and then it had like these sub tabs for each active display, which is kind of a weird pattern that exists only in Drupal, and we realized that without changing the menu callbacks at all, we could replace that first page with a table just like we have for user layouts of view modes which each one of them could have a button for minge display, which is a interface pattern that we have all over core, which makes a lot more sense in the past stay exactly the same.

A

So there isn't really any change their other than how people get from the landing page to the subpage. It used to be a tab, and now it's a action link um but trying to figure out how to organize the table on the landing page success to.

C

A

As if it is a hard, so anyone who wants to take a look at that can um I think we've got a couple good suggestions. Thank you right now. So I'm going to work on another poor puss with those and I'll take a look I've.

B

You by chance managed to take the suggestion from a design meeting posted today. Yeah.

A

She posted a comment saying what it was going to do, um but what I'm going to do is incorporate the last few comments from that issue. First and then post a pull request them to make another poll request with e removing the non customized view mode. So we can commit yeah.

B

The nice thing about being in which that issue number is the life teen through the tea time running, like the attendant the great thing about that favorite team. Was it really closely to come? No.

A

No, no 15-30, no one is records. Oh it's.

B

315, okay, sorry, um yeah, okay! So take a look at that issue. But the great thing about that issue is that API wise, like we're in a really good spot, like we have the ability and team modes and customize and revert and all those things. So it's all just user interface.

A

So I think yeah.

B

Issues which ultimately like like looking at either the Drupal 7 module that did innodb modes or display, sweet or even triple Eight's, like all of them, are not very good. Okay, so I'm feeling like like.

C

Already low bar to clear.

B

It but so yeah. This is exactly very low bar here, as far as as far as those competitors, of course, but I mean other things like wordpress course. They.

A

Don't have view modes completely like that's like 27 is comprehension.

B

So so anyway, it's it's! It's grapes which you install some user interface from so I. Think we've had some new ideas that we talked about during the design meeting that have been relied into the issue that some might help. Nothing.

A

Out I'll set.

B

Out a little bit more yeah, yet another thing to try out and see see what the responses aren't. The.

A

First idea was like so crazy and like this is such a crazy idea and then the more I thought about it like I love it.

A

So thanks doc won't lot for having a great Dan. Yet.

B

Yeah, exactly okay: um let's, let's talk about the next issue that one actually is view modes are actually like. It goes.

D

Like we just need to take a seat items.

B

And in the file view, so this is the basically step one of adding sort of better file media management to backdrop core. This is issued 2375. That adds a view that lets you take a look at all of your files and deletes them if necessary, so basically adds a new main item under admin content and then files and I. Don't think that this is how did any reviewing yet since last week. So some more reviews on that would would definitely be appreciated.

B

I'm going to take a look at it as soon as possible for coming to that overview as well, but it's a really basic starting point, just a view and a vbo option for delete, and that's it right.

A

Yeah, that's it there's some! um Oh.

B

There's a three.

A

B

A delete, menu call back to.

A

Leave my new product that lets you delete each individual file and there's a full cooperation lets. You delete all files at once or, however many one, um but it should be really easy in the future to add other options. So if we want an interface to edit a file individually or you'll file individually or whatever we can, we can plug it in, but right now. The main purpose for this issue is to solve the bug, which is, if you upload a file via your WYSIWYG editor. um You can never delete it or disk. So well,.

B

In into a block right.

A

B

Block works or anything.

A

That didn't have a UH it wasn't if it was my own managed entry or something entity.

B

Yeah any non entities that you use of would see, we go on files can end up being poor orphans and then no way to actually to delete them. Yeah, it's only woman before when it just bleated all them. Yeah.

A

Way better than deleting everything for sure what.

B

Was the question Jeff had um we.

A

Met and it versus configure I'm.

D

The entity view modes in the table, the button says customize most of our buttons say configure so.

A

Can you usually leads you to a forum? Customize is more akin to enable/disable, or it's just a rillo to the page, with a different status in that column. Yeah I, don't know about that word again, like we're having issues with terminology, it's not disabled or enabled like you can always use it. So we couldn't use enable/disable, it's just like. Do you use the default or do I do something different for this thing, and I don't know what that word is, um but.

B

I know going: let's.

A

Go said the next iteration is going to remove that entire section, with the buttons that say customize, and so when you. Instead, when you put the action link for add you mode it'll, give you an option to override one of the existing ones or define a new name and I.

A

Think that might be a little clearer, because turning one on is going to be the same, whether it's creating something new or overriding one of the ones that send code, um but we'll see we'll see what it looks like, because sometimes, if you're on, if you're on, make a bundle for cage- and you have like 18 view modes for article, it doesn't make sense to see your article view modes on page, even if they're disabled. That could be a little weird.

A

So hopefully it'll make more sense to be like these are the ones that are currently defined for this type. And if you need to use it for another time, you can create a simile, would add a new one, but I think that's the kind of thing we've got to play with it and see how it feels before we know. If that's going to be better or not, which is why I want to create a new poll request, we can kind of see both of them side by side statement.

B

Okay, um so that file listing one can jump in back employer. The final listing one is in a pretty good spot. We think, but it needs needs for you because well I think nobody.

A

Else does it is the view actually existed, originally I pushed in for Chris and forgot the view, um so we'll be good to make sure that he is actually there this time and then there's something that's missing from the view. It's the number of times the file has been used. We can add that we just have to add the like views. Distinct filter feature to get that in there. So I'm not sure needs to go in urgently, but it would be a nice, a tradition at some point, future. Okay,.

B

Okay um and then on the agenda, we've kind of trimmed down our wish list really to those three items. There's also a bunch of other one point. Six items, though, I have been going through those today to merge whatever is possible and merge whatever is ready, so a bunch of other items that are less important or less likely to get in, but those three are kind of critical items that were really whittling. Our focus down to try to get those three items in and on the agenda. Is there anything else?

B

You know just jasmine, just general discussion, / key way, um anything else that you guys would like to bring up that. We still want to try for that hasn't been mentioned in this meeting. I did.

A

Go through the issue, queue and I tagged everything with Egypt, either future requester task and I'm hoping that'll make it pretty clear like which things need to get done before feature freeze. Anything, that's time to feature. Requests needs to get done with for future queasy or it gets bumped and anything else. We can try and do afterwards, so hopefully that'll help um focus us a little bit for the next few weeks on those in requests.

A

So, what's the next outreach meeting and next Thursday.

B

Yep a week from today, oh.

B

B

Yeah anything, that's that's a bug fixed for the next release. Yeah please do tag. Is the next bug-fix release that really helps me focus when, before I make a release, I check the the next tag and see, if there's any items in, though that um already regular, yeah, okay right back to code? Okay, thank you everybody. uh This is the last name before Christmas tree. Yes, I'm meeting before Christmas, okay, well, happy holidays. Everybody will still be inaccurate rush next thursday, though so there is this batch of holiday party yeah,.

B

Okay, all right well, thank you very thanks, of course, for everybody joining as well as those people watching, and I am happy holidays and we'll see you guys next week.