Baltimore County, MD Blue Ribbon Procurement Commission, 28 Oct 2021

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From YouTube: Baltimore County Blue Ribbon Procurement Commission Meeting, October 28, 2021

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Speakers:
Mr. Phil Andrews, Chair
Mr. N. Scott Phillips
Ms. Sheila Dixon
Ms. Peta Richkus
Mr. Peter Placke
Ms. Carla Nelson Chambers
Mr. Wade Kach
Mr. Dan Morhaim
Mr. Steve Walsh
Elisabeth Sachs
Jasmine Clemons
Rose Butler
Carla Tucker

A

um If everybody's ready, why don't we start um I'll begin with a welcome? uh Welcome to all of you uh it's hard to believe? First, it's the end of october uh also that it's the uh end of our 11th month together and uh we are truly on the home stretch uh way into the back nine, as they say on the golf course so we'll um uh make additional progress today and we're we're there and then we should talk about um what I'm calling uh post final report um activities.

A

So with that welcome great to see everybody, why don't we move forward to the second item on the agenda, which is the approval of meeting minutes meeting minutes were posted? I know that peta had some uh some edits. I think dan had a suggestion or two I checked sharepoint and recently, and I'm not sure that those edits have occurred yet, but maybe I missed something jasmine. Can you fill us in on that.

B

um I was not able to watch the video to confirm the questions that um dan had. I wasn't sure if anyone else was able to do so so that way we can make whatever confirmations.

C

Yeah, thank you for clarifying that because I just did that for memory. I did not look at the video if I said something else in the video please replace whatever I typed. I was just trying to fill in what I thought I might have said, and that was that's pretty sketchy so um yeah. I haven't had time to find the video go through it and find that one place where I said something and fill it in so please feel free to do it or just take it out all together. Whatever.

A

Okay, well, here's here's the thing. We need to approve minutes um and I what I can't say was everybody approved. The minutes is edited because they haven't been fully edited. Yet we've got one to see june 28 july 22nd august 12 august 26 september, 9, september 30 and october 14.

A

The minutes are drafted which we appreciate, but there are some tweaks needed. We can approve them.

A

By an email once they're all done, we can attach them to an email. I'm happy to do that, but I want to be sure we get that done. Yes, carla, you were going to say something.

D

Are we able to approve minutes with the necessary edits with the edits coming later.

A

um I um here's the other thing. I think we could do anything, but I don't think we ought to do that.

E

A

Okay, um so uh jess, maybe you and I can- can talk offline and see when we can pull that together and then I'll send out um an email to everybody with the revised edited minutes and ask if there are any other uh questions, thoughts, improvements or the like, and then ask for uh written approval. Then we can get them posted as approved so that that is that is accomplished any other thoughts on minutes or other suggestions. I'm got a lot of yeah go ahead.

B

Sorry I just forwarded um peta's edits um that she's in questions that she had for the smaller email chain to the entire commission, so um that everyone could see them in one place.

B

um She had no comments or edits for the june 28th september, 9th or september 30th um minutes, and then there were minor edits and questions for the remainder.

A

Okay and- and uh let me see here and dan- um I guess- then yours was july- 22nd, so um well, let's, let's do just so. It's clear and everybody's got a continuum of things to to look at. Let's, let's um proceed if it's, okay with everybody, as I suggested, which is we'll, attach a complete set of edited minutes and ask for a ask for a year in a and then it's it's all clear and complete um uh scott. I don't know if we saw it just sent a note.

A

He had to he's gonna he's gonna log back in so um let's what will treatments in that regard? I'm just going to say uh yes, commissioner walsh. Yes, please.

E

Sir, mr chairman, I did have one edit on the october 14th set of minutes that I will send you and jasmine after this meeting. One minor comment on what I had said in that meeting.

A

Okay, thank you. Thank you um great, we'll just do it that way, and I was going to say a couple minutes ago. There are, I serve on a commission with thought leaders, so if anybody has a better way to handle this minutes, question plea, please say so, but I think the email with the completed set of minutes and asking for your name will work. Okay enough about that.

A

uh Good, I see. Scott is back. So, let's move to commission business, um she had circulated the updated internal procurement procurement survey analysis. This is the internal survey as we've been calling it and jasmine. uh Do you want to uh any comments on that and then any commissioners have comments or questions about about that document.

B

No comments for myself um just as a reminder. This was the um survey of questions that went out during the public works, llc efficiency assessment survey to all internal employees.

B

um We took the procurement questions and sent them to all advantage users who um are much more intimately knowledgeable about procurement and those were the responses we got from that smaller subset.

A

Any commissioners have any thoughts or comments on uh anyone, surprised or um some other um some other verb or adjective or adjective um with what they saw on the results. Yes, yes, peter.

F

um I I don't recall receiving it when was it sent, but I thought I caught up with all my emails.

B

It was sent on the same email with the updated draft. I can um send it forward it separately to the entire commission.

A

Would you would you please that'd.

B

Be great jasmine.

A

G

H

Of the questions.

A

I don't want to jump ahead to part three see quite yet, but in terms of discussing the final report and appendices, um it seems to me that this is a document that might or might not be in the in the appendix, uh among the appendices.

A

We do have the uh commission website um for documents. I want to be mindful of what I'm not over appendicizing the the appendix or appendices so anyway, but is peter the only person who's not had a chance to look at that survey. Yet. Has anybody seen that graphic celebration of.

B

Violence is so clear.

F

And I apologize for missing that.

A

You no apologies are necessary. I just want to be so. If other people haven't seen it, then they'll obviously want a chance to weigh in somebody's got a mute. I think elizabeth is that you somebody.

F

Used to it's me, sorry, okay,.

A

I

A

Comments thoughts, questions about survey.

A

All right hearing none seeing seeing no hands raised. um Okay, elizabeth efficiency study final report update.

J

Yes, phil, I'm sorry are you calling on me about the efficiency study.

A

J

So it's currently um being reviewed internally by all members of the county senior team for accuracy. That's all sections. Apart from just the procurement sections, um I want to confirm that this group has seen the fleet management and all the what we regard as the procurement related sections of the report, which mostly have to do with purchasing. Has everyone been shared, those or found them on sharepoint.

J

Yes, okay and then I think the one piece that I know, delegate moreheim was hoping to see is what analysis they've done around this whole idea of insurance pooling, and I know they've done some work. I cannot share it yet because the county is about to release an rfp for our overall health insurance contract, so I'd rather that come out. um You know, probably next week I'm told and then we can proceed with with any other analysis. I just don't want draft non-public analysis being shared prior to that release, so that is my up.

A

Yeah that always gets tricky um you know and on the state side. Obviously lots of people know when rfps are coming because contracts expire, or um there are um conversations or things come out of committees and alike, and this notion about privatizing something or splitting something off into a different kind of contract. So people no rfps are coming, but it's it's a sticky wicket um to for anybody official to be talking about, what's going to be in an rfp or what an rfp is about. So we have to keep that in mind. Yes, dan.

C

I appreciate that point phil, but I I you know it's. um Sometimes these contracts run for three years in two years or longer, um and so if the county were to proceed and then the efficiency report says or we recommend or however, they determine that pooling with the state would be a good thing to do. It would be putting it off for an extended period of time.

C

Perhaps so, since I have no idea what's in the rfp, and I we don't know what's in the efficiency report regarding this topic, because it wasn't included in the procurement section, although it is a procurement, I would just respectfully ask elizabeth and others on the call who are connected with the county to to see if, at the very least, this could just be a one-year deal, but that may put the county a disadvantage.

C

If it, you know they get better rates for three years, although health insurance, you know its own animal, so I'm not sure where to go with this.

C

You know at this point, but you know it'd be unfortunate if there was an opportunity to jump on the pooling bandwagon and we miss it for the next few years, because the county's acting now and, of course, the county acted on this two or three years ago. They would have the analysis and know whether to proceed or not, but they didn't so they don't.

A

Know understood two or three years ago. I think this. This commission was like maybe gleam in somebody's eye. I'm not I'm, not I'm not sure the one thing I would say dan again this um I mean I've seen I've not seen the rfp either, but I'm assuming that. uh I think I should make this assumption at least on the state side. There's always a termination for convenience clause.

A

So if something you know came up at some point for whatever reason, whether it be uh some sort of cooperative purchasing um a long ones, you've been um suggesting or something else, um it could be a shorter time period. But I understand what you're saying it's just it puts us and puts us being the commission in a tough spot just because um efficiency study has addressed it, but we can't see it. An rfp is is imminent uh and we don't know what's in it.

A

So um anyway, we'll we'll.

C

Let's well, I hope, that's not the case with other procurements that we've been talking about because.

E

C

Efforts- potentially here certainly in this case- it's possible, but I don't know- and I.

I

C

They, you know, can't trust us to share it, but um you know there are good things.

K

Well, one of the things that happened. I remember in the city um we ended up having to extend the current contract mean it might have been just a year or whatever. I don't remember the time frame because of all these other pieces that were out there. um So I don't know.

K

County's contract actually ends.

A

Well, dan, your point about what other procurements could possibly be out. There is that's that's a great point. I also think it sort of is a reason why we should just focus on process not on rec specific recommendations about what to procure, because um we, we know what we know and I think, we've uh if I may done collectively, a great job running down and making recommendations on the things that we have information about and they're ready to proceed with um so.

C

Well, I I appreciate it. Let me just be clear: the recommendation is not about what to procure the. What to procure is clear: it's health insurance, it's the process of that procurement, which is exactly in our domain that we try to talk about. So you.

I

C

County procures, uh snow removal, the county, procures all contracting services, but our recommendations may be to use one example that the procurement should include consideration for various mbe requirements or or sustainability standards or efficiency standards. You know so it's you know the cat, the what would be the cars, but the recommendation is fleet the same thing here: the what is health insurance? The process is to do the analysis and figure out what makes sense and what doesn't- and you know the county has known about this for a few years- sure.

A

So I'll stop there on it, but I just.

C

Want to clarify that point. No.

A

No, you you, you always make your points well, dan, well,.

C

Let's do this I'd.

A

Like to, um I, don't think, there's anything else, elizabeth there's nothing else to say on the efficiency study. At this point, I think I didn't mean to cut off your update. Is that no.

J

No, that's that's the update that I have today.

A

Okay, um so then, why don't we move to to 3c and then dan, when we get to the um let's? Let's take a walk if you will, through through the uh through the most recent draft final report, just to get some general comments um and then um when we um uh we get to the cooperative purchasing piece, we can um have whatever other discussion. We need to on your point. But let's do it in that order. If that's okay,.

G

Phil uh wade catch. Why I uh make a statement? Please yeah. I I've read through the uh report.

G

The draft yes, and it just so happens that I also read through the 700 page audit report of our baltimore county public school system, where there are anywhere from from 150 to 200 findings and the one thing that in that report, that really impressed me is the fact that they took the findings and they rated them in three categories: ones that should be pursued right away, a cure, and then you had a second tier and a third tier and with dan's point it just.

G

I really believe if we can, if there are 10 findings, I I know I shouldn't call them findings, but recommendations that are in this report that the commission feels are vital to the county and things that will can be done. I know the county administration is now is doing some of these. I already realized that when you read the inter report, the county is doing this and doing that as a result of research and findings that this commission made.

G

So I'd like you all to think in the direction of possibly uh giving um the administration in the report. uh If it's the proper thing to do, I know I used to be an auditor, so I don't you know. I guess this report is not an audit, but uh I think the county would benefit with uh a prior the uh suggestions that are the most important that they be singled out and it suggests and suggests that the county consider working on them. First.

A

G

A

Think some of that has been was done in the interim report with particularly with respect to uh the purchasing office and hiring and personnel needs, uh and the like. um I, I think, that's a very interesting suggestion.

A

My concern is: we have 30 days to get the report out and I'm told I was about to go into the timeline here, just for a second um that we're gonna have to have our final report final by the 15th of november and so that'll. That allows another round of of edits which I'll which I'll get to after our discussion today and then some real fly, specking review uh just to be sure the edits are right and then off it goes.

A

So I guess my point is um not if we can reach a an agreement that, for example, among just just a big one, if we, if you picked uh sustainability, if we said well, let's pick the one: let's take each recommendation and make it a one two or three I'm. I think we're gonna need a bunch, more meetings for that and our uh our authority and jurisdiction. If you will runs out in a month and really we've got two more weeks to get our work done.

A

So I as we go through this, if everybody says oh, you know mindful of what wade said yeah, let's put this one in bold and let's do this one first and everybody's agreed: that's that's fine, but I I'm not sure we have the time to reach a consensus going through each one of these recommendations to.

G

When this uh report is finished, yes, will you be presenting it to the county council or elizabeth? Will you it'll.

A

Be well the internal report. Elizabeth could probably better not answer it. So.

J

This the the executive order, I'll triple check it, but I'm fairly certain that the rep, the procurement commission report is indeed to be submitted officially to the county council and the county executive, and if council would like a presentation of some sort, that's certainly doable.

G

Well, I I think that, if filled does the presentation or or you elizabeth, that I believe uh that would be very helpful uh with the presentation that you highlight what is the the very major issues- and uh you know and and just suggest that uh you know if the county were to act on this now it would be uh a positive now.

G

The council isn't, I guess the only role the council would have in this would should something need legislation, isn't that correct, yeah, okay, yeah and- and so uh you know- I I maybe in your presentation to the council- you can discuss but just put an emphasis on those issues that are.

I

G

And the administration think are particularly important to pursue asap. If you take a look at that school audit report, uh I think they recommend that the school system start implementing some of the. I think 120 some of these uh recommendations in the first month, and uh I I don't know if you had a chance to read elizabeth yes.

J

I'm I'm familiar with it. um I was not as as involved as I am with the forthcoming government one, um but I think on the government one in particular there we are we're in part waiting for some uh cost assessments, because, while their savings down the line just like with this report, if we want to reform purchasing we're going to have to invest in staff and training, so I think those are the kinds of things we would want to flag they're both budget implications as well as legislation I think about where we're headed.

J

There may well be some legislative implications, I'm seeing carla shaker. So I think this is is a good idea. Timing, wise, it may not be till the new year, but um I I certainly want to raise it with the county administrative officer. So I think we can put that on a to-do list after the report is issued november. 30Th.

G

Okay and and phil, I certainly understand your concerns. I I you're right. I mean it's kind of maybe too late, but uh I think there are different ways that we can approach it with the same results. So thank you very much.

A

Thanks right, peter.

F

uh The uh efficiency report is going to be coming out also, and I expect it's going to be. You know a lengthy report based on the results of the baltimore county public school report by the same group, and that presentation to the council may in fact prioritize its different sections of recommendations in reading through it.

F

So far as I can tell um our recommendations and theirs are tracking, you know like parallel track, um and so um I don't know that it's necessary to take the time now to try and prioritize when we have this million-dollar study coming behind us with uh the resources and the uh recommendations in their hundreds of pages.

G

Thank you. Thank you very much.

A

Okay, so um thank thank you both for your comments. um So before we start going through the sections um in talking to um elizabeth who's been talking to lauren lauren is the one who will make the report.

A

Look. Official lauren needs, given the thanksgiving holiday lauren needs to have the final final draft by the 15th of november. So the idea would be obviously we're going to talk about it. Talk about the draft now we're not going to somebody points out and says the word. There is misspelled, so we can.

A

We can pick that out here, but the idea being that, if there are any additional comments based on what people hear today based on another read, they should get those to jasmine by the by november 3rd, which is next wednesday and then jasmine and we'll incorporate all those there'll be uh there'll, be an internal review for structure and organization, um and then my intentions take another pass through.

A

If I see something in there that I think requires a discussion or deserves a discussion, um then I'll either reconvene the group or send everybody an email or we'll figure, we'll get on a conference. Call we'll do something um consistent with the public, with the public meetings act to um to to resolve it.

A

But um the thought today was to go through and have a conversation um on you that uh we sort of talked about the cooperative purchasing piece when we get there um with respect to dan's thoughts and comments and then, as a follow-up to our last meeting, uh talk about the um procurement preferences uh question and then a couple other structural things. So the there's one other there's an additional chance besides comments today, an additional chance for edits.

A

I want to sleep on it a night or two and then add any other edits or anything else. They we all need to go to jasmine by the third and again, I will follow up and send an email to everybody, so they have those those dates in mind, but that's the structure we are. um We really are coming down to the coming out of the finish line here.

A

So having said that, if I may, let's, let's go and we'll just let's just go through it in the order um in which the draft final report is was last circulated.

A

One of the things we need to think about is what- and we talked a little bit about this last time- is what actually should be the order of the um of the particular uh presentations we had them ordered in a certain way in the interim report. But we don't we've added subcommittees. We've got additional sections, we've had some other changes, so we're not um we're, obviously not bound to follow the order. That's in the introduction and table of contents.

A

I should say right now, so let's give that some thought too, but we will start with an introduction um and um live with general comment and then go from there. um I think we ought to put uh people's formal names in there, um uh and so that could be fixed up, but but, for example, steve walsh, do you like to be steve walsh or do you want to be.

A

Stephen, whatever middle initial and whatever my things might come after your name, you tell me, commissioner, walsh, for example: dan are you damn? You want dance, I'm everybody if there's some other, uh I'm gonna opt for philip just for the fun of it, but if anybody else wants their name to appear in a different way, just please mark that up in the edits, um and the other thing is um on the.

A

I want to double check. I think, on the listing of um of the very subcommittees. um We need to insert commissioner jones name, and uh we can note that rick benetti served uh during his tenure on the uh on the on the committee um and um peta had a couple of comments here.

A

When, when uh the chief administrative officer came in uh when stacy rogers came in to speak to us, she said there was had been delayed, but she was anticipating that there would be an internal um would be a huddle. I think she called it about the interim report because we said uh what some things we know are being implemented. She told us about those, but uh what are the other reactions from the county about being a report and um elizabeth? I don't know if you heard anything further on that we.

J

Are we have a time scheduled and I apologize it didn't happen sooner. I think, as the cao explained, the uh attempt to to set up a whole testing operation for when delta re emerged. We got a little delayed on other things, but she and I have a time for early next week. I don't really think there's going to be much at least in terms of not acknowledging what was there.

J

I don't know whether we'll get to what an implementation schedule would look like, but some of the things in fact have started, including investment in the per soon-to-be procurement operation, so we're having the meeting and I should be able to report back by email it's on monday, so um our tuesday. Actually, so we should. I should I should, if there's anything to report back or share it will be by the middle of next week.

A

Well again- um and I'm mindful of everybody's time but to the extent there's uh something that this group needs to reconvene and talk about, I want to be sure we do that for the 15th. So um please keep us posted on on that.

A

K

Phil also, are you saying in the report based on recommendations that were made that are um some that are now implemented, that that would be noted in this final report.

A

I think it'd be great if we could.

K

A

In a position to do so right.

K

Yeah, it would be good if we could.

J

I think we will we I mean I can let you know, and then we can decide how it should look. I mean our graphic designer is very good at those kinds of flags within a document so we'll as long as it's highlighted or noted, then she can make it prominent in the final.

F

And I took a whack uh in this latest version. At least the edit that I sent in of uh incorporating my interpretation of what the administrative officer told us to exactly do that.

A

Yes, thank you any general comments on the introduction. Again, it's subject to people having one more shot at editing and commenting, but is there anything that strikes anybody as we all are gathered at the moment.

L

So phil this is scott and it may be uh similar to to the councilman's comment. uh This may be difficult to get done in the time that we have allotted, but it seems to me that an executive summary would be helpful.

L

I know we have the introduction and I know we have a number of recommendations, but it seems to me an executive summary. A one-pager would be helpful.

A

Would you be satisfied if we struck the word introduction and called it executive summary? Would that work scott.

L

I don't, I think, they're two different things right so so I don't know, I don't know that we've done any you know and and once again we're not going to do all the recommendations, but it seems to me that out of each one of these um committees- maybe there's a theme- I I don't know, but I think an executive summary for those who may not want to read the uh 77 pages we have here. I think it is would be helpful.

A

Well, that's great yeah. I I think I will uh forming an appoint an executive summary subcommittee. I have an idea for a chair scott, oh jeez,.

H

Oh uh phil phil uh yeah. I just wanted to mention that uh in the introduction there um the name of my company is not the grants on contractors. It's ray and sun tama inc.

I

A

A

Okay, um scott, I hear you on the executive summary we'll uh see if we can't put something together um and send it out by email, okay, okay, all right; um okay, anything else on introduction.

C

Yeah, just yes, I'm starting to scan the latest version, but um under me it doesn't list the the format isn't the same as the other subcommittee. Specifically, it doesn't list carla as chair. You know we're going to have a structure. It should be consistent for all the subcommittees and it's a minor thing, but she is.

A

I guess that those are the kinds of sort of close edits and again that it's helpful people collect those and not made a note here, but we'll collect them, but people can, as you read through all of you read through it for all of us, read through it further. We see anything else, but thank you dan for putting that one out.

A

Okay, let's go to page. uh Let's see, I guess it's page five, which is procurement, staffing, training and certification.

A

um Maybe you had a number of comments in here um anything you want to, um uh and it looks like we're missing. A number of board of liquor license commissioners on page 11., but is there anything you wanted to say or anybody else on your subcommittee like to say about that portion of the of the final draft.

F

I know I tried to incorporate any other thoughts. I had there.

C

Okay and well, there's two uh sections that say you know table two question mark and analysis to come question in parentheses, so clearly those need to be eliminated or filled in whatever it is. That's intended.

F

Yeah I expected that beth would be doing that as she formats right.

C

F

Since we were still working, as you know, with jugs jigsaw puzzle pieces, it was uh impossible to divine.

C

A

Any other comments on this section having to do with procurement, staffing, training and certification.

A

All right we move to um construction, um commissioner walsh is the uh that subcommittee chair. Anything you want to add, or any other comments by any other members of that subcommittee or other commissioners.

E

No new comments for me from what we talked about last time.

A

Anybody else on that one.

A

Okay, sustainability, um dan overarching comments um comments. It's.

C

The same as before, I trimmed some sections and reordered it so that the priorities, some of the things that are lowest priority at the bottom, but otherwise it's essentially the same content as before.

A

um And there, but I hope there were a couple of comments um on page 18, um there's a bullet point that says historically, environmental impacts have disproportionately affected low income and minority areas for a variety of reasons. uh Policy and planning should take this into account. Whenever applicable, the county should reach out to the impacted communities. The organization's baltimore county coach should integrate environmental justice.

A

He does procurement policies and plannings and uh there's a comment that that's. uh That is a strong statement, and um do you have any specific examples um and are we? um Are we very into policy there? Thoughts.

C

I don't know who made the statement, because I'm just getting to that now but um yeah. We can start digging out all kinds of examples and some of them come from the city and the county. But I think it's pretty well established that the the situation is historically that minority areas tend to get the environmental problems uh or lo or site locations for things. So I wasn't prepared to start giving specific examples, but I that I could dig some out without too much trouble by contacting the appropriate folks who would have that.

C

But if somebody wants to, I don't think it's a strong statement. I think it's an accurate statement, but if somebody wants to.

K

C

Edit, it specifically go, you know, let's see what it is,.

K

No, I mean I agree with dan and I think maybe just cite some examples.

C

um I'll try and dig some out if you know some, but I know there have been you know: trashed trash locations in eastern baltimore, county and there's you know, avoidance of putting things in uh you know some other areas that are have fewer minorities. Let's just put it that way. So if you want I'll, dig a couple out and go from there.

E

I made the comment um and I just thought that you know it is a. It is a strong statement and I agree with you it's true, but we're just saying it, so it might help with another sentence or two with an example or two. That's all.

A

E

I

A

And I think that I'm not disagreeing with anything anyone has said or about the the accuracy of the statement, but I think the focus has to be on so the last sentence which has to do with you know we're talking about procurement policies um and uh in planning. So I think the whole point of the sustainability section is that the our recommendations are that county needs to build sustainability.

A

A

Into its procurements as a general matter, for the reasons we've stated here, but again I want to I'm I'm. I think we need to be careful about veering into policy because there are. There are.

C

A lot I don't have any problems, checking out the last sentence if that solves this problem, so with the concern. um Okay,.

A

Well, let's, when we get the when we get the examples and and yeah see where it goes and then we'll get another look at it,.

C

Okay and it should integrate, could be consider environmental justice or something like that. If that's the concern.

D

Can I can I say something about the environmental justice, of course um it's that is a big component at the federal level um environmental justice and how it plays into title six, and um and all of that, so um I don't know carla's shaking her head too so um and I learned a lot about it in in the whole, in the whole airport um environment, before you make a serious change, you have to look at your the surrounding um in neighborhoods and see who you know who would be affected by it, but out of that, so um if nothing else could an example be what not saying we take the federal level, but we could look to see what the federal level um what it.

D

What does it say at the federal level about environmental justice um and then just kind of dan? Is that something you and I want to kind of flush out and then maybe you know bring it to the committee or not touch it at all. But there is precedent. I think that's what I'm trying to say.

C

Well, I know in baltimore city there's an issue right now with a uh crematorium, that's that's being placed into governs uh and uh the community is very against it, but um it's partly you know.

B

That's another.

C

That's one example: there's other um smoke stack issues in randallstown.

D

There is a funeral home, that's in a commercial strip, mall that shouldn't be there and they did it without a permit. They didn't go through zoning, so we've got um delegate adrian jones involved. We've got the um community associations of it's a big deal, and so the the the funeral home is saying. But if nobody says anything we can do it. We're like no, and so we've got county zoning.

D

You know and all of that involved because it's part of a shopping center and they want to put a funeral home and it happens to sit next to a daycare. So we're dealing with that stuff now.

C

That's not entirely environmentalist in the traditional sense, but I get the point I'll.

B

I

If I can find some examples,.

C

From the county, but certainly there's plenty around the nation, so um you know, but I don't have any problem moderating.

K

It a little bit is where the one example well, the premature crematorium I mean you.

I

K

Another one already in the city, but that's never there over on fulton avenue, because people are starting to be cremated more so than to be buried. But another example is the: um what is it the lines? What do you call it when they do the um the the cell phone lines?

K

Yeah? That's a a good example that has an impact on the environment and by schools, communities.

A

All right! Well, if, if the, um if the subcommittee take another run at that particular section and.

C

Yeah, I don't. I don't know that I want to necessarily I'm open to the idea of examples, but I don't necessarily want to have to say in you know: 2005 baltimore county did this and, and you know, messed up some neighborhood because that's you know going back to a lot of history or in 2012 this happened. I I'm a little low on the examples part, but I I don't have any problem changing it should integrate to consider or um you know.

C

I think this is reasonably well historically accurate and um you know nationwide whether they're actually happening in baltimore county or is happening. I mean I guess I can try to do that homework, but I don't know that I want to start putting examples in because it's past history and we're looking ahead.

A

F

Steve, were you talking about examples like fresco, or were you talking about examples like citing research that documents the concern.

E

I don't know I just felt put it. I felt that putting a statement in here with really it seemed like a pretty strong statement as it was written. I agree with dan. I think dan could schmooze it a little bit. It would make me happier, but I'm not losing sleep over it if it has to be this way, that's for sure just jumped out at me when I read it. That's all.

A

Okay, well, let's see what the next iteration looks like and we'll make certain. Everybody is okay with it and take it from there um page 19. The next page um again, there's there's a comment about uh that. The county should uh create a sustainability commission, um and um I didn't make the comment but that I'd like to hear more um about um it may be a great idea, but where that really fits in with procurement process,.

K

So I guess I'm using the example of what I what I created in baltimore city. We created a commission that was made up of individuals who were a part of the environment community, along with planning and other agencies where they were able to set a parameter of things that the department would then implement.

K

So, for example, um certain regulations and policies, as relates to um and it's them with procurement, um the type of construction, green construction and or what the city purchased uh with recycling containers. What agencies did within those department. So you had. You didn't just have an agency person, but you had outside experts who are part of this commission to really help to drive um that um area for, along with the director and her staff for his.

A

That's helpful and it sounds like a great idea again without uh trying to be too pinpointed about it. I just want to be sure in terms of recommendation that we are making as to pro procurement process.

A

Maybe that's something because I know we have other things about sustainability in the appendix. Is that something that it's better than the appendix? Because again, that seems to me to be a kind of policy decision that the county uh can make about whether they have such a commission.

A

It's up to me. It sounds great, but I'm just wondering if, if it belongs in a among the recommendations as to procurement process,.

C

I certainly would say that the first sentence on a stand at the very least the county supports a new sustainability officer with adequate staff and funding.

C

There's only one part-time person there in addition to jen iosa, and that's just not not adequate, uh it's it's sort of like what we recommend for mbe that they staff up. You know.

J

The good news is they're they're, actually, three full-time staff, megan bannon.

C

L

Maybe the language could be changed to say that the sustainability, very specifically, that one of the roles of the sustainability commission would be recommendations as to.

L

Best in class procurement policies around sustainability, something of that nature, because I think that's while they will have a broader footprint. What we're saying is that they will be responsible for providing some input on uh procurement policy.

L

Is that am I saying that correctly.

K

It's not only with the policy, but also with um providing a perspective to the director and staff, even in procurement, so for the for the um the county.

C

So let me also say the county executive appointed me way back to the about a year and a half ago to the behavioral health advisory council which which I chair, and we do exactly what the sustainability commission does as projected here, we suggest grants, we recommend policies, we recommend legislation, we recommend it to the county executive, it stays internal, although any members can do what they want with the information that's shared, but this is pretty typical. I mean this idea came from sheila's experience, but it is parallel to what I'm doing and we're doing it.

C

Behavioral health care council- and we have.

L

C

Prevention task force that we created and it makes recommendations on uh policy and actions and gets funding and tries to get funding or coordinates with other agencies and entities that are similar. You know have overlap interests, whether they're in the government or in the nonprofit or private sector. So you know it's not really different than what's going on, at least in that one area that I'm familiar with and nobody's objected to anything about it.

C

A

You wanted to say something.

A

I

Think I think he muted steven.

E

Sorry, I think scott's uh proposed language provides much better context to the paragraph rather than just dumping it there so yeah. I I agree with scott's introductory sentence or final sentence.

C

I wish I'd copied that down. I could insert it right in there, but scott, if you want to just you, know, send it to to sheila and carla and me who are the sustainability and anybody else, who's interested and we'll add that sentence really just talking one or two sentences here that I think that'd be fine.

C

And jasmine of course, and phil and so on, if you don't mind.

C

Got it? Thank you.

A

L

A

There are a couple of comments before leave that section on pages 26 and 27, um and I think they're they're clarification type uh points um peter. There was a reference to september 30, I think that's probably the end of the fiscal year, although I'm not not sure about that. um Elizabeth with jasmine you'll want to confirm that and- um uh and then I uh let's see here and then on page 27, there is a um this has to do with a suggestion.

A

The procurement division complete a report on purchases of recycled environmentally preferable products and there's a number eight says: status of efforts by printers contractors and grantees to use recycled products, and I think peter. It's your your comment. It looks to me like you're asking: are we talking about printing companies or agencies or what's really clear what the subcommittee meant by printers there? Maybe dan or somebody can enlighten enlighten us for purposes of.

C

I

C

Dan can enlighten on that one, so um I'll just get rid of it. uh Some of this, I think, came from other source. Okay, I'd have to go back and find it. For example, the these are all under suggestion, revisions to county code, which came from rich keller, and that's why the date is what it is, and, okay.

A

C

Change that to the appropriate date- and I think this came from him too and he's you know the very savvy person within the county on this issue. So I think that's where that comes some of that comes from, although I'm not entirely sure, um but but I that that's a fair point, we should fix the date say you know by the end of september. Usually the end of you know fiscal year. You know which I think jasmine suggests and I think that's clarifying and this other one went as a problem.

C

So I think just uh um status of efforts by contractors and grantees and take out printers right.

A

Sure, okay, uh any other comments uh with respect to sustainability.

A

All right: let's move to fleet management, um any comments, um steve anybody on fleet management, other commissioners, any thoughts there. um Peter has a couple of comments about spelling out acronyms and I think that's important, um and I guess the only question would be jasmine elizabeth. You know what the acronyms stand for. I.

E

I can take care of that in my next edit.

A

A

Anything uh anybody else wants to say about fleet management.

F

I have a question.

A

F

I was looking at the uh public works, llc uh fleet management section I, but I had already sent in my edits uh and so steve. Have you taken a look at that and does it strike you as anything that you want to address or not.

E

I have, and I think their biggest recommendation is combining the equipment side with the vehicle side which um yeah, I guess in the recommendations we can. We can expand a little bit. I just uh uh referenced that report in our recommendations here so.

F

And that's fine. I just wondered.

E

F

That would be sufficient should be sufficient.

A

Great any other comments about property management.

D

A

Fleet management, no, we talked about fleet now we're talking about property, carl you're, you're, gonna you're, getting the getting the chair off more confused than he normally is. Okay, we talk about fleet uh property management, anything about property management.

A

Okay, good um best practices- um and there are a couple things here- um peter had a number of comments. We also have peta's graphic to um discuss um repeated view or anyone else on your silkman. You want to highlight any particular aspects of this. This section I know one of the questions was whether there are portions of this section that might fit in elsewhere and other other substantive sections, but I'll turn that over to you.

F

uh The format uh and location of uh pieces of that was my major comment and um I'm I'm glad to have input from other people.

F

um It does sort of having it the way it is, uh as a whole entity does sort of address the one of the issues that's brought up in the llc report, and that is focusing on best practices and that's certainly something that the county, executive and the administration are doing have been doing so. I just wanted it to be reflective of all of that, and I don't know if what I proposed as a format, does that.

A

Thoughts comments.

E

Yeah, I I think, there's so much overlap with all the with some of the subcommittee's work that it's it would be super hard to make this thing flow like a novel you know, so I think I think peter your your proposal was as good as any and, uh like you said it, it sort of puts everything in in that best prac practices basket. So it's my opinion.

A

Other thoughts, comments.

F

I'll make one other comment if it adds to the uh thought process, and that is that um the section originally evolved. Everyone will remember from our best practices panel and a lot of their recommendations, and so that was the other reason that I thought it worked as a single unit.

F

But as you go through the other sections, it may be that some of the references in your own subcommittee's sections that refer to best practices quota should be included in this section, either separately or as a repeat of what the subcommittee finds or recommends.

D

This is carla, based on what peta said. Is it possible that um rare best practices are listed in other areas? We can do a um an asterisk or something in it within best practices and say c c, x, y z, um I'm not a something you know, but whatever, let's say c sustainability, page x, y z for best practices or you know, and that way we're not repeating but we're doing the cross reference piece.

F

um Beth can be a big help in that regard, because a lot of times the graphic reference or the color usage or whatever can help bring those things together without extra verbage or extra editing. So if uh so, that would be something to ask of beth elizabeth and jasmine.

J

F

J

Lauren our graphic designer is actually lauren. We have lots of lauren beth, no, it's okay! I I was. I think um I just want to be clear, because I know that the one of the most the most valuable parts of this commission's report is going to be the work we've learned from the other jurisdictions and the best practices that they flag and I'm glad that that's poised to be prominent.

J

I agree that we don't want other best practices that came out of subcommittees to get lost, so I think we will carl and peta figure out a way to cross-reference, um because that is I'm thinking ahead, about ease of implementation and it'll, be so easy, it'll be so much more applicable if we know exactly where some of these best practice innovations are in the report, so we'll we'll do our best to make it clear.

C

Question um what is uh page 34? The word enterprise starts to appear being a star trek fan, I think, of the starship. But what is what is enterprise referring to exactly.

F

I included that because that's a language that the administration uses uh enterprise-wide is uh the term that is used and has been used for the last several years, it's starting with the strategic plan and which began with the start of the olshevsky administration. And so that's what that reference is so.

C

I I sort of assumed that was going to be the case. Does that mean that we should go through the document and where it says the county should, or so it should apply or whatever? We now say the enterprise to be consistent.

F

I wouldn't say so.

C

Okay, good, thank you. I hope not wouldn't want to rewrite all that good. Only.

K

Clarity, I would ask, is so the best practices would go where I'm I'm looking at it on my computer and it's like after the various subcommittees, it would go before the subcommittees correct or no.

A

K

A

A great great question because um I think the I think the order I'm just walking through the order of the document as we have it right now, I'm not sure this should be. This should be the order. um All all the subcommittees are important, they're all important topics, but um that's I mean that's another thing we ought to discuss. I mean the whole purchasing office, support and organization certification.

A

Excuse me, that's something that would go towards the front the revisions, even though it's not a long section. The revision to the co. The code in the manual also seems again one of those predicate things upon which you build from there.

C

K

A

Yeah yeah, that's that's sort of and then the others can be in alphabetical order after that. um But um that's uh other other thoughts on that, uh but I think you're. I.

I

A

You're right there are some things that ought to be.

I

Commissioner phil, can you hear me.

A

I

Yes, I have a um quick um comment: I'm not sure whether this may be like the appropriate um place to um say it, or maybe this may be something that I should direct specifically with elizabeth, but I'm asking anyhow, um as we were talking about, you know like the cross. References to you know different to best practices and notating. um You know those that may be in other subcommittees.

I

I wonder, would it be beneficial either in the blue ribbon um final report? Even the public works llc final report to identify those best practices that are shared by both you know, committees. I think it would be beneficial as the recommendations go up. That is very clear to see where there are some similarities and some um you know, joint agreements in some of those best practice areas.

J

Thank you rose. That's on my personal to-do list. I think the way these projects are shaping up they're, so parallel that I think it's going to be in the implementation phase, where probably really beth samick and I are going to do that cross reference, but it is why having them bolded colorful is going to be that much more helpful, because I agree we on the you know.

J

Implementation side are going to want to see where they've been agree, where there's agreement, where there's not divergence but just different approaches, but I think we're going to have to just make sure it's clear in each report and then we'll go back. Okay, appreciate that I will not make you do it. I will do it. My team will provide.

J

Thank you. You're welcome.

F

What I've seen there really isn't uh much diversion uh between the sections that we've received so far anyway. So that makes it easier um and they had the resources and the liberty to elaborate on a lot of the basic recommendations that we had uh demand on our own.

A

Got it um before we leave best practices um elizabeth you mentioned about just peter's graphic here and just be sure everybody's clear on the columns and the foundation and the predicate elizabeth peter. Do you want to have any specific questions or comments about about that? Or anybody any questions about uh about the graphics? It's uh graphic.

A

It's on um it's on page 34.,.

F

I did meet with the graphic artists, uh lori did you say elizabeth.

J

Lauren lauren.

F

Lauren, thank you, I'm sorry and we we spent. We spent quite a bit of time talking about what it really meant to what what I was trying to convey and she seemed to grasp it and said that she would show me something before it actually was included.

F

But she didn't foresee any problem and I explained to her and actually showed her what the what the basic concept was and then also walked her through the three different variations that I included in an earlier version to visually. Emphasize the point that we were making that procurement is a foundation stone of anything getting done in the county, uh and all of that work is just is for the citizens of baltimore and then to show the thicker or thinner or not connected um columns uh of what you could expect to happen.

F

If procurement isn't given the strength, the resources, uh the attention, the integration uh that is needed, that the whole um house of cards you know is not stable. So I think it will be useful to make those points in a graphic way, as well as just to say them in the report.

F

J

C

J

Up with lauren did she owe you something, or were you going to meet again.

F

I thought she was going to send me something I I would have expected it by now, but I have we haven't, talked since I'll follow.

B

A

Great yeah, the other thing is I'm wondering if we need to have- and maybe lauren had this in mind or peter. If it's something you'd talk to her about, I wonder if we need to have a um the the graphic in larger size, because it's it's a little.

F

Absolutely absolutely that's my limited uh graphic and document production capability.

A

I I I don't know, that's you're the one commissioner. As far as I'm aware, who's uh published a graphic for the purposes of this. This report.

E

A

You're way ahead of me at least, which is not, which is not saying much, but you are ahead of me like anything else on best practices, so let us go next to cooperative purchasing, which is on page uh page 40., um and uh we've had a little bit of discussion about this, but I want to be uh you know we have some additional news um that we got earlier on about this rfp coming out and the like. um I if um uh well let me let me do it this way.

A

Let me open up open up to any uh particular questions or comments about the cooperative purchasing section. Then we can as a general matter, then we can take a particular look at um paragraph number, three and again we're on page 40..

A

uh Any any uh general comments about any of the other uh recommendations.

A

Okay, um so dan um is there any anything else you want to add or uh reiterate. um Are we uh re-emphasized.

C

uh The only thing I would call attention to um based on is that uh there's a sentence there says to precede the commission. uh It could, I think, I'd submitted another one. That said the subcommittee, but if it's certainly at this point the subcommittee that recommends what's described there, which is carla and me um and then if it turns out that the commission adopts that, then it would then would read it as the commission, but short of that I don't have anything to add to that topic, because we don't have enough all the information.

C

But the the basic point is that this is not what to procure. It is health insurance which certain counties going to procure, and this is another option on the choices of where and how to procure um and that's pretty much within our domain. So that's about all I have to say on it.

A

Other comments.

A

I think the I think the sort of the running issue on this has been again talked about earlier is: is this outside process? In terms of saying the way you get health insurance is to do it through the state exchange and.

A

That's um yeah. It's there.

C

What's not what's being said here what's saying, is that the county should initiate the required analysis to compare and then make a decision whether or not to piggyback, on the health insurance procurement with the state or not? It's not saying you have to do that. It says you should do the analysis, because the task force that came after the legislation and about 14 states they do this and they save substantial amounts of money. I mean it's just sort of common sense, pooling the larger the pool, the more the risk and the expenses spread, but.

A

C

Say you should do it, it says you should check it out. Okay, that's pretty reasonable! Okay and.

A

A

I get your point um entirely and I guess the question now is um now: we've learned, the county has an rfp going on next week or whenever the next two weeks, whenever it is- um and we also know that the efficiency studies address this and I'm not sure what they're saying either, which I don't think cast to control what we do here, but, um uh armed as we are within the knowledge that the county's proceeding with an rfp um I'm uh I for one, um am concerned about suggesting that they ought to be doing something else other than the decision they've made to proceed with the rfp, and I again it'd be much better.

A

If we could see what the efficiency study says, maybe it says dan exactly what's said here. I don't.

C

Know well, I think, for the purposes of finishing this in two weeks. This is the the work product that we have based on the information that we've been provided, and this is what the subcommittee you know went through and came up with. I think we ought to accept that recommendation and then the county, you know reality may dictate other things, but you know this otherwise we're just until speculating what the rfp says. We don't know what the efficiency report says. They may put out there, it may take months till it comes back.

C

I mean we just don't know that this is our product, and I think this this ought to be respected as such sure.

A

uh And I don't disagree with with with the notion about it. It's our product, but that's the that's sort of makes the next point, which is the uh the the commission's recommendations, um and I hear you there are lots of things we don't know.

A

uh But one thing we do know is that somebody in the county has made a decision to issue an rfp next week and I again I'm for one of them loath to muddle into that. um Just because I've seen the mischief that occurs on stateside when, uh when at the verge of the rfp.

C

A

It doesn't apply.

C

To this rfp, this this is, you know, would be applicable to their next rfp again, we don't know how, when this rfp will go out exactly when it will be uh awarded how long it'll be awarded for, but all we're saying is, do do the analysis and come up with a plan. The plan could be. You know, two years from now that it doesn't change that.

C

A

C

F

Other comments.

A

F

um As long as it's worded uh that the way that dan describes, um I I think, that's fine in terms of uh risk exposure and putting on my old uh contract, you know um contract negotiator hat. I wouldn't want the county to be in a position of say that there's a dispute on this request for proposal award, and so the unhappy uh offer says well. The procurement commission says you should do this as long as the wording is such that we're not interfering with the process itself.

F

That would be my only you know, concern and that can certainly be addressed if the wording that dan describes is what is in there. Well.

C

It says recommends, it doesn't say, must do or shall or demands or some other version. It's just a recommendation. Everything we're doing is a recommendation. The county gets to do what it wants. You know.

E

In the council.

C

And the county executive and his uh his team get to decide what what they pick and choose from what we recommend. So it's just a recommendation. It's not a demand.

F

Well, phil's the one who's the expert in what arguments a contractor might make when they go to uh dispute a contract. So I'm happy if you guys, are happy.

A

F

A

I always prefer to represent the the um bitter who's been selected uh and is trying to fight off the protests and representing the protester, but I I do both uh and um to your point peter. The idea yeah protesters have to be creative and uh I'm sure what we say in this report um will be utilized. uh However, somebody might might see fit in that regard, but it as I see it, then there are. There are two aspects um to this and we do have appendix x, which also describes it.

A

um The draft on page 40 in paragraph three says the commission.

A

The commission recommends the county initiate the required analysis with a comparison of costs and benefits, um along with the involvement of the impacted employee groups in the in the process and then, after an objective analysis is completed, decision can be made whether to have uh piggyback health insurance procurement, with the state or or not um so daniel said a moment ago. Well, we could say the subcommittee recommends it, which is uh which is uh which is accurate.

A

The other question is whether the whole, as britain says, the whole commission uh recommends it, and um so we can uh have a show hands um and if we have unanimity on the commission again um I take our charge. Looking at the executive order is that, um what's our responsibilities are for the commission to make recommendations, not um a few a few commissioners or some commissioners or plurality?

A

So my view is if we can't all agree on something either, because we can't agree as a matter of having looked at the materials and informations available to us, or we can't agree because we don't have enough information or whatever. The reason is, if we don't have unanimity.

A

Then I don't think it's a commission recommendation so to to say the subcommittee recommends it um and not the whole commission. I don't know. We've called that anything else that a subcommittee recommends that the rest of the commission doesn't. Maybe this is the only issue. That's like that.

A

um So I guess we, let's, let's let's, let's step back, is there? Is there unanimity to say um based on the language as it's written here that the the commission recommends the county initiate the required analysis? So anybody who disagrees with with that.

F

May I ask a question first sure um I think dan just said. I said just a few minutes ago that he was. He agreed to change it to the subcommittee recommends.

C

Yeah, so let me say I I would change it if I prefer that the commission recommends, because everything is a commission recommendation, so I think we should do that if there is not enough support or whatever fill counts here, then I would say you should make the subcommittee, but let me also point out being a taxpayer, I'm not covered by county health insurance, but being a taxpayer. The savings are.

C

The amount of money is so large for health insurance that the savings that have accrued in other states are substantial because one or two percent of all that money- I didn't go into this much but you know, is a lot of money that can be because health insurance is very expensive.

C

um So not only do you attend in the study shows and the task force that followed show that people get better health insurance, but the jurisdiction saves substantial amount of money as with the school system, money that could obviously be you know done you know, other things reduce taxes or spent on other programs that are needed.

C

This is not the kind of thing by the way peta. I'm not entirely sure. I get your point about litigation, but this is basically going to you know care first and they'll have a program, that's his care. First, united kaiser, the same kind of program. It's not like there's going to be a lot of um uh it's not like bidding out of a road where there might be 5 or 10 or 15 contractors. It doesn't work quite that same way. So I don't know that there'd, even there isn't.

C

Even there even is an aggrieved party as such yeah.

A

Dan, you can't you can't make you can't make that assumption. Those are all fine parties by the way.

A

I guess, what's going through my mind, is that that again just goes with this news that this rfp is coming out, so that I'm uh I'm making an assumption that somebody sat down and said all right. What are the criteria? What are we we're trying to procure health insurance? What are the criteria? What are we looking at?

A

I'm assuming that people in the county are aware of of the fact this that this legislation is out there dan, because the the ceo has come in and and said so, so I don't know what all the policy aspects of that are, and I'm just a little loathe to to weigh into that. But anyways.

K

So couldn't you say um for this recommendation for the commission based on? If you want to take a vote for future, uh you know for future recommendations, not even noting I mean we wouldn't have it in our in this recommendation, but you know for a future down the road recommendation.

K

Some terminology, you know the future- that this is something that needs to be looked at.

K

I mean, since we don't know, what's in the other study and what's being out what's coming off, rfp and bidding on health contracts can be very controversy uh because of what happened in baltimore city, uh but but you could put it you convert it. You know for future.

H

Or maybe you could just say that the commission recommends that the county consider initiating an analysis not requiring them to leave.

C

With me, you know whatever you want phil, you know I mean I I I think uh what uh pete said was fine. I mean it's just trying to make the point that someone has to do the homework of figuring out the numbers and and basically what happens is if they went if, let's, let's just use care first example, the county goes to care first, they say it costs x amount of dollars to take care of this thousand employees.

C

They go to the state, it's still care first, but they're gonna, but but because it's a bigger pool, it might be marginally less that that's the only difference. It's not there's. No other they're gonna have the same thing with united with delta health. Dental health with um you know the other health, hm the other health provider blank you know and then kaiser will be the same thing. That's that's it's not! There's! No other entities to go to care first is 75 percent of the market in the state. So.

H

C

Don't have a network adequacy issue here because there's plenty of network in the baltimore metro area.

A

C

A

um So, let's see where, where we are are, are we now looking at.

A

Adding the words uh says to proceed, the commission recommends the county initiate and which instead say to proceed. The commission recommends that the county consider it consider initiating an analysis is that is that the suggested amendment, but.

C

I I would stay with you with the original one and then change it. If we have to okay recommend consideration is really kind of like nothing.

A

Okay, um just trying to process everybody's comments here. So let's go back as written on page 40.

A

Is anybody opposed to the language as it reads right now? I don't know if everybody's got in front I'll read it one more time to proceed. The commission recommends that the county initiate the required analysis with a comparison of costs and benefits, along with the involvement of the impacted employee groups in the process period. After an objective analysis is complete, a decision can be made whether to have piggyback health insurance procurement with the state or not.

A

So on so as stated, the commission recommends that, um uh let's, let's do a show of hands, um I can't see a couple people's hands. I can't see uh wade or jermaine's hands, but uh in favor of that, let's raise your hands.

G

Bill it's way to have an absolute yes.

A

Good, absolutely yes! Okay, let's see, we've got one two, three four five: does it count correctly?

A

Okay, all right? um Okay! um So it's five four five.

D

I think it should be six.

A

Six, okay! um Well, that gets back to the other aspect, which is uh to me: that's not a commission recommendation, because there are four people who are opposed to it. Four commissioners who are opposed to it.

C

Well, does does not voting mean they're opposed, or that means they're not voting is.

A

D

Anything from jermaine, there's jermaine; okay, that's seven!.

A

Four, seven, okay, um so I I am not abstaining. I I'm against the as currently worded, um who else to vote it again didn't vote for it.

G

You know phil uh its weight again, I think, to include it as a subcommittee uh recommendation and not a full uh commission recommendation really waters it down uh as as to whether or not it's a important recommendation or not. It's.

J

G

Important recommendation- and uh I I would you.

I

G

Ask I almost would like to see it eliminated completely. If it's only going to be a subcommittee recommendation, I really would. I think it just takes attention away from it. How many other recommendations in the report are simply subcommittee recommendations, as opposed to the full commission.

A

G

I mean that's, that's.

A

Something I think I said a moment ago. I mean we, we have and I it's um I think uh um I think it's a feather in the commission's collective hat, that we have all of these other recommendations through the nmr report and through this report, and um there are uh really just two that have um come to this circumstance. But um I um I, as I read the executive order, it says the commission's recommendation and we don't have unanimity on this one.

C

What would you, what would give you comfort in a way that would say commission? Would the commission considers that you know peter's recommendation? Would that give you comfort.

A

Well, I think where's your threshold here yeah, I'm I'm just.

C

uh I mean I certainly agree with wade, I'd like it to say the commission and it actually means something rather than take this whole concept out all together. I think the concept needs to be in there, but it you know you're a word smith. So what what works for you.

A

Well, I think something along the lines of what lines. What peter is uh peter is saying that, plus the appendix um uh information, I think, is fine.

C

But let's, let's do that? That's if that's what it takes, then let's do it. I mean I don't. I can't spend any more time on this than now. I can't explain it any better.

A

C

I mean, let you know put in the word consider so it would read. The commission recommends that the county considered the required analysis. I think that's what he was saying and if that does it, then that's fine with me and let's move on.

H

C

A

Is there any other comment about that peta? Anybody else who I met go ahead.

F

um I agree with the uh edited version.

A

F

Certainly never wanted to imply that it should not be considered or included.

C

So initiate changes to consider and uh that that's the change one word: that's fine. Let's move on everybody.

A

Good with that, okay.

E

A

Yes, thank you. Thank you. Okay, um page 41, uh it says purchasing code manual revisions, but there's nothing there. I think we're just going to import the um the page from the interim report and dan. I think at the last meeting you mentioned, um because uh something you and scott both emphasize. um uh I think everybody agrees that there is this, uh the hierarchy of which document controls, and that is addressed squarely up front in in the interim report section and we'll just plug that in here. But I don't know if.

C

There's anything I don't actually think it's in this report, unless I I mean I remember reading it, so let me just see yeah.

A

For some reason, yeah for some reason, my page 41 is blank. I'm.

C

Not sure why mine is two, but um let me just see if I can, I think we have that procurement.

L

I

I'm trying to.

L

Somewhere in this report, we talked about it, but it was not in this section. Yeah.

A

You might have been.

L

In the introductory comments.

A

There there is something you're, I think you're right scott, but I I want I for one would like to import that page in from the interim report, because it sets out you guys, did a great job of setting out very nicely and cleanly. I think that's where it belongs.

A

um Any other comments on on that.

B

Yeah that was, I left it because I wasn't certain what all was coming from the original document. So I can just transpose the interim report to this.

A

Yes, please that's page 12 of the interim report. Thank you jasmine and thank you, scott and dan uh okay and then um same thing. Now we're on page uh 42, uh which is uh mb wbe small businesses, um and uh I think the idea again was to import the um section from the interim report and.

C

um Sorry phil it's it's on page 8 of the current report on page eight of the one that we're looking at and it actually says the office of law has been been asked to begin this process. I knew it was in here because I read it just this meeting again.

A

Yes, but uh but there's a lot more to the um that's fine yeah.

L

A

Yeah, okay, I for one think we ought to have the whole portion of being a report in you guys all right: okay, okay, so now uh page 42 of the of the current final draft um is mbwb small business and again I think and carl, let you speak this a second. I think we're going to import the section in um we have the recommendations from the disparity study that we had and the like. um In the interim report, the issue came up about procurement.

A

Preferences at the last meeting we've received we've. I guess received three letters from various interested groups or entities about that, and I also understand that the.

A

Procurement preferences as a general matter and again I have zero details. Maybe somebody else does that that's something the county is already generally talking about. um Nobody's asked our commission to take a look at anything to say, gee. We know the state runs its uh procurement preferences in the following manner or we've seen other counties. Do it this way or anything else, so um we've gotten the we've gotten.

A

The outside input pete sent a lengthy email discussing this, and I think when we after the last meeting carla, you were going to see if you could uh have further conversations with your subcommittee and see if there's anything uh further to uh offer up at this point, but the the again. This is not one of these things where we we have some news, which is that the county is actually already talking talking about.

A

D

Start first by um the name of this subcommittee should be um minority women, business enterprise um and then include um the disadvantaged business enterprise. There is no small business.

D

There is no small businesses in this um that the county has small businesses is a totally different thing and small businesses um and the way it's written is not a certified category. It's small business enterprise, which is part of the this discussion, but but for the purposes of the report and the what we're calling it, we need to call it what the office is or call it my um disadvantage, minority and women business enterprise.

D

I think if we do it that way, um and that's more for notes for jasmine and elizabeth, that would be better that's so I want to start there. Yeah.

A

Let me let me stop you one once second carla, because looking at the executive order, one of the things that um we were asked to do was a comprehensive review of procurement and contracting transfer, small and mbe and wbe businesses uh and like so. I think we need to be at least mindful of small businesses.

D

Okay, so that's going to create a little quagmire because far.

A

D

All right um carla's office um doesn't there is no small business program and rep that's in place, which is part of what this whole issue about. The small business preference program was supposed to address.

D

So that's one thing: um when we talk about small businesses, I let me give an example when I say small businesses, I'm talking about retail, you know the small man business owner in that's in a jurisdiction, so it could be any and everybody the the role that um carla's office plays doesn't get involved in regular small businesses. So I want to make make sure we're kind of talking the same apple and not apples and oranges and carla's shaking her head. No, so I need before we move down into.

D

What's the issue then I'ma, let carla say what does the office cover and not cover? Let's start there, so we can so we can title this correctly, because out of that, title is going to be how we deal with these other issues. So go ahead, come on so.

L

Before we do that, though carla I want to make sure I'm, because I think we're we may be in your definition or in your description, um you're we're attempting to take our committee and have it focus strictly on what is today with carla's office or based on the commission's work.

L

Much of our committee committee's work has been around carla's office, but my thought was that kind of what phil is saying. Our our role in all of this is bigger than just what is.

L

Am I missing that no.

A

D

A

What I was saying.

D

That, but I'm no you're not missing it, but setting this setting that tone will help the discussions that we have to deal with. So with that.

A

Yeah, and so I I would say- and I I would say and once one second other carl, so what I would say is um the interim report says minority and women, business, enterprise and small businesses, um and that was intentional because that's what the that's, what the executive order says. So I.

I

A

A

It is certainly.

A

Tucker's office we're all about carly tucker's office, but we also um and all the a lot of the things we say will affect small businesses and procurements that involve um and ask small business to participate. So I think the title needs to be consistent with the interim report, but now miss tucker. Please.

M

So I want to, I want to make a correction, so my the office is minority disadvantage and small business programs. So we are supposed to have something um related to small businesses, because when you have a race conscious program, you're supposed to have race neutral measures as well, so we do address small businesses.

M

So what recently got added was the disadvantaged business enterprise, so we were mbe, wbe and small business prior to october 2020.. So we need to address um small business uh in this report.

D

And we don't and do we need to address disadvantaged businesses in this report or no that.

M

Would be the commission? I just know I'm charged with that that I'm I just know that I'm charged with that as of october 2020., okay,.

A

Yeah and I I think what I think um I want to be too much of a lawyer about it- I I think we can certainly mention that the executive order doesn't say db. Db is obviously a big part of procurement. um Just like veteran, you know veteran owned, so it's a, um but I I think we need to get exactly.

D

Here's the only reason why I'm saying it is because in other portions of this report, when we're talking about procurement and talking about federal dollars that whole dbe piece comes in there, so it is important to address it. I'm going to I'm going to make the assumption that, when whoever wrote the executive order, that's what they're used to seeing is nbewe.

D

Nobody probably thought about that carlos office. Now, as of 20, it's now a year deals with dbe. So it's it's, I'm going to say it's honor. It was an error that it wasn't included in the executive order as opposed to. We don't want to talk about dbe, so.

A

Dbe, is I mean it's fine as a topic, I think we can refer to it, make it clear that it's under carla's uh carl has jurisdiction over it. Yeah.

D

So I bring it the way. I brought up the issue about small businesses on purpose because of the issue that we're having, which is the small business preference program that um we talked about last week. There has not been um pete already said: he wasn't going to change his position. So what is that going to say no, and so what we said was we would get letters for we would go ahead and receive the letters from the outside organizations.

D

I'll say for transparency. I had a meeting with mike henderson of abc baltimore. I've received his letter. um I have a you know. I asked him if he could correct something, because he kind of left me out of you know in the letter um and um between his letter and um the other one. They were basically saying.

D

We don't have enough information to be able to weigh in and um to to to that point, when you read what the state's um small business preference program is and how it's set up, we have been talk that has not been set up either at the county level, at least not to I mean I have not asked carla tucker how you know how far on they've gone into how it's going to be set up, because there's a committee that reviews these certain contracts before they are put out.

D

So with that in mind, and because again this has been a week. Everybody's running around my conversations individually has been one of these. um While I know that it has passed certain muster tests at the county that at least the commissioners say, since we can't come to an agreement that it needs further study. We need more information because we haven't found out how the county is going to set up their committee, like the state has to do these reviews. We don't have that, as we say the devil's in the details.

D

We don't have the details, so it's hard for the outside groups to weigh in properly and and it's and therefore- and it's hard for this for my subcommittee to even be of consensus, I.e, the entire commission cannot be of consensus.

D

So that's where I am right now is that we we can't recommend that it go that it occurs. It needs. We need more information at this point, regardless of what the county is going to do or not going to do. We don't have enough information to compare what the state has, because it's not flushed out.

D

That's me that is not the whole subcommittee. That's where carla stands. That's always pete uh scott can weigh in she look away in that. It just needs more. It needs. We need more info as to how the county is going to set it up.

A

D

Is is the idea.

A

Then that we would, we would note that, uh with respect to our charge regarding small businesses, that the um that we have, um we know, we've identified whatever the right verb is that uh small business preferences um are is a procurement tool. um But at the and we understand that there's some the county is giving it consideration.

A

um We don't um and we don't have any details about what the county is considering or or or the like and they're, really not in the position to comment other than to pointed out that um other than to point out that it's it is a tool, and this is.

D

Useful it deserves.

A

Further deserves further consideration I mean is that is that what you're suggesting carl I.

D

Am I'm I'm waiting for scott to say.

A

Yeah yeah yeah, I'm sure I was clear.

L

I I think in my last correspondence, that's pretty much what I was saying right: it's a tool that should be not no, I won't say we're recommending, but it is a. It is a tool um that the further study should be conducted.

L

Something of that nature so almost similar to the language that we put in for for um the cooperative purchasing of healthcare, exactly.

K

Yeah, I would agree too, because, when I reached out to um members of our association et cetera, many of them definitely are in support of what a program in baltimore county and they you know, but they also needed more information. But they definitely saw a need because of the bet, the practices of baltimore county in the past and why?

K

Some of the um studies, particularly in the diversity study, came out as related to african-american companies and what happens to many of those companies and doing business.

K

So I would agree with the language that um carla and scott's recommended.

A

Pete, did you want to say something yeah.

H

um I totally disagree because um there was nothing in the surveys or when we had the open forum. No one said they needed a a bidding preference. You know we're um the associate the contractors association, um especially auc, is fully against it. Okay and it's it's not against small businesses, it's not against helping small business, it's an unfair bidding advantage and that's what they don't want to see and quite honestly, the other two organizations um were kind in their response.

H

Okay, because they don't want to see that even so they they they tone down their response on purpose because they just did not want to um be, as uh would you say, uh direct as maybe auc was and again I also had another um maa was gonna, send a letter in today and uh they called me and says: is it too late? I.

I

H

Said they were supposed to be in already so they were also drafting a letter against this, and I told them at this point. You know it's not going to do any good, because you know it's past the deadline, and you know we'll see where this goes.

D

D

Respectful and I'm trying to get my words right respectfully disagreeing with um to let me say this, not with you but the position, because um I hear that you're very adamant. I see the body language, I hear the tone all of it and yes, um we could. There are several of us that could be that the opposite.

D

On the other side, I would like to think that there could be some compromise by saying it needs further study as opposed to people, as opposed to you and certain others saying um no, we don't want any further study. It is we're just saying it is what it is and not allowing the study to go through number one number, two, it's it. I've heard the conversation as though this is going to be for every pro for every solicitation. It is not.

D

The states is not for every solicitation and it and and just because it might be, there doesn't mean that it automatically will be applied, um whether your people were kind in their letters to me might be. I had a face-to-face conversation with mike, so um we talked about some other things and then but lastly, uh just we are getting letters from your side. What I don't want to do is is put my stick down and say we got letters on the other side. That would say yes to have the pr the program.

I

D

Hold on a sec hold on I'm trying to be negotiable, but if you want to keep throwing and not whether this other letter comes in or not, but we got three letters that say that say we don't have enough if you're telling me that they're being nice- and they really don't want it- I'm going to be I'mma, pull the trigger and on the other side and say, send these other letters in and then now we're doing this and I'm trying to prevent this by saying.

D

Let us just allow the uh um further study number one number two the county is gonna is already moving in that direction and we don't know what they're gonna sell. So I am trying to say let it let the further study happen. Let the county do its part, as opposed to just saying no ain't gonna happen not over my dead body, because now we're gonna have dead bodies on both sides, because I'm gonna get my people to throw in letters saying we do want it and that's not where we want to go. Yeah.

A

One of my one of my I had a list of things that I that I said to myself when I agreed to be chair. One was no no dead bodies on my watch. um We're not going to do that. um I'm um peter! I hear what you're saying about you know the the they were kind. I I'm at the point um generally in the world where I sort of take people at their word and what they say and what they say has has has meaning would take it from there.

A

um It seems to me that um we have the reality of the county, uh giving consideration to this procurement tool, and I and in that same field of thought, about um people being what they say. I think you conveyed that um the organizations are not saying they don't want to help small businesses um the, but there can be mischief with procurement preferences. There can be, as we know, mischief and all sorts of things, but I think what's being suggested is we know this is a tool we know the state.

A

Has it or agencies use it from time to time where they see fit. We're not recommending that the county put the county, put small business procurement preferences into place, we're simply saying um it's a tool. It's been brought to our attention. uh It deserves further study and input from all concerned um doesn't get the point of dead bodies, but in terms of a but in terms of a compromise.

A

um Let's see if that's something the commission would carla.

D

Tucker wanted to say something because this this came up in her report that was done in july, which is why it's included in the final. But carla. Can you just provide some background, or what have you please this well.

M

As we, as already mentioned, um the disparity study showed a great disparity at the prime contracting level, and so we were just trying, because you have a race conscious program. We are required to exhaust race neutral measures. That's a requirement, that's not something that we're making this up.

M

This is something that is in our training that we have to have for legal standing right, I'm not an attorney, but I know that I am required to have programs that are race neutral, because I have a race conscious program, so knowing that the state of maryland has programs in place- and we did not that's the reason why we looked at the state's program, we didn't go with the local, didn't look at local preference, necessarily because local preference limits, competition and knowing procurement. The way I do the bottom line is the dollar spent.

M

So that's why we didn't look at local preference, because you're limited in your in your pool of vendors. That's why we were considering the small business preference program just wanted to put that out. There.

H

M

Old there's some.

H

Counties that already have uh the local preference in them, my pg county, has a they don't have a small business bidding preference, but they have a local bidding preference.

H

Now, if you were going to use that in baltimore county, maybe I think there are a lot of people that wouldn't have as much issue with it, because you're hiring local people and- and we wouldn't have as much problem with it either, because 30 percent of our people live and work in baltimore county, but the 5 bid discount okay, means that you can procure a million dollar uh or 100 000 bid say, and you can give it to what's called a small business and pay five thousand dollars more for it uh if and who's gonna pay for that, except for the taxpayers.

H

So um it's it's not a very good use of taxpayer money. When you can help small businesses with grants or with loans, you could we held small business set aside. The state has decided maryland department of transportation, I'm on a leadership committee with state highway and mtbma, and I do know that they do a small business preference quite often- and that's not a small business set aside. Not they do not use the small, the um the uh bid, preference, a five percent bid, preference.

H

They use small business set aside and it's a good way to go.

L

Also, actually, so that we so that our minutes reflect it's the small business reserve. Thank you.

H

K

H

K

And also baltimore county doesn't bulma county go by the lowest bid for contracts.

M

We do baltimore county, though so it's a bidding plan and a bidding process in the bidding process, but.

K

I guarantee you when and it's just like bulma city and everywhere else, when you look at that low bid and then when those, um what do you call it? The um changes.

H

K

Close 90 of those contractors end up spending more than what they did, what they end up bidding on, so that five percent that you say the taxpayers are paying. I guarantee you on these contracts and I and that's something I have pushed for the city to do to analyze that so that you didn't use a lowest bid, but you use the most responsible bidding because you end up 100 percent, you end up that lower bid bitter is going to be higher than the highest bidder and one more thing.

H

It doesn't really make sense one at a time, and you can still have change orders that makes no sense.

K

My point: is it weighs itself out based on one guarantee? Yes well well. First of all, I did not my members of my association are opposed to it and they support small business program, but because I'm on the commission I said to them, I needed them to write a letter from their company so that it didn't look like a conflict for me to do it from the association.

H

All of the associations that wrote letters have mbe companies on them. They all have small business companies on them. They have disadvantages business companies on and they, uh for the most part, are an agreement that when you start playing these games of awarding giving somebody a five percent bidding discount, it goes guarantee.

K

You associated building contracts, who I work very closely with that. The majority of their minority companies, which is very few, would probably not support it, because I did speak to a couple of their members who did not support so a lot of times. Abc is not speaking, absolutely they're. Speaking on those companies that donate equipment to abc for jumpstart that contributes, pays the largest memberships. It's those companies that weigh in not their mbes.

K

That's why michael henderson right now is trying to kind of change the image of abc, because it doesn't focus on um really helping their mbe companies and that's why a lot of nb companies dropped out of abc.

H

Why doesn't? Why doesn't baltimore city have a five percent bidding discount small businesses.

K

I'm not I'm not in baltimore city anymore obama. City needs to have to do a whole lot of stuff.

A

We're trying to straighten out baltimore county I'd like to hear from carla tucker, please.

M

I'd like to go back to the local preference piece that pete mentioned as well, um and then- and let me speak to that first, I know I've talked to um not prince george's but montgomery county about their local business preference and the reason why they went with local preferences because there's a preference in the dc virginia area, and so they don't their companies cannot compete in northern virginia and in dc. So that's why they went with local preference.

M

But if you look at their local preference program, it includes maryland businesses right so that they consider if they have so many employees within the state located located in the state of maryland. That's a local, a local preference. So that's still a it's a small business preference but maryland law. Comar regulations also has prohibited because I used to work for the state, so they prohibited the state from having a preference program. What maryland has is a reciprocal preference program at the state level and.

E

M

Preference is if your state has a preference with your businesses, then that pres, that percentage is going to be held against you when your your your state's business, is bid in maryland.

M

So there those preferences that are at prince george's in montgomery county, that local preference that has a lot to do with northern virginia and dc, not with maryland, not with. What's going on in maryland,.

D

May I ask carla also if we based on the race, conscious and race, neutral laws. If- um and I- and I recognize this was quote a remedy- that's how it was written in your um powerpoint presentation, what happens to the county if we do not put a race neutral program in place.

M

The mbe program could be shut down. Thank you. You're required to have a race neutral program, you're supposed to exhaust all race neutral measures. Thank.

D

You that's the reason this is, and this is the reason why we are doing this and it's- and I know that we're saying five percent, but it's not always five percent, and that's why we are calling this a tool in the tool. Kit is to keep us from getting sued um protests and we're trying to right the ship.

A

K

Baltimore city is just starting their um study and probably when that study is completed because they're behind way behind they're like two years behind, yes, that it will probably be incorporated with baltimore city as well.

A

Well, in terms of just mindful of the the time here, um so um I don't doesn't sound like when I have a consensus to say we recommend a small business procurement preferences.

A

I think the next question is with that. We say something about the the to the effect that um we, it is a it is a uh um we don't have enough information, because there's obviously a lot to unpack here, both legally and and procurement strategy, wise and other, and in other aspects.

A

We don't have enough information to make a recommendation about something specific, but um uh the, but the tool of small business preferences uh deserves further study, which is really at this point beyond the scope and the jurisdiction of this commission. Something to that effect as a as a compromise.

A

um The tool is out there. The county is the county's already looking at it. There are legal legal issues that drive the need for for race, neutral programs, and this is one whether it's five percent or one percent, or has some completely different structure, and it's meant to help small businesses. uh Somebody else have to figure that out. We don't have enough information to decide.

H

But in terms of coming up with some.

A

Language like that, yes peter, are you gonna, say something? That's.

H

Why I propose we just put in the same language for this, that we had in the interim report and let it go and let the county do what they have to do.

D

What language was in the interim report? Because.

H

However, whatever was in the interim report for this section.

D

There it wasn't in the interim report. That's the point, that's the point. It came up in july when I don't know, I'm.

H

Just saying what was written in the end report, how that was written transferred into here? I'm.

A

I'm I'm looking for that. I'm not I'm not sure that we called it.

K

We didn't call it in the intro report. We.

A

K

Use that, but that's not acceptable to some of us exactly. We had other additional things. Just like every other committee had additional items. This committee has additional items.

L

D

Wasn't the only one that's.

L

Not the only one, let's listen so we've gotten caught up on this particular item.

L

And some of the other recommendations we've gotten caught up on this- that we haven't even included some of the other items that we discussed over the course of the last couple of months.

L

um You know at the end of the day, I don't think this report can go in without simply at least at minimum, a mention um to your point peter I I get what you're saying, but we would be truly remiss if it's not acknowledged we're spending think about how much time we just picked on this conversation in the commission meeting, probably more than we spent on almost any other issue than maybe um this idea of cooperative uh procurement for health care.

L

So so, and we've got to put that in and we're putting that in, and I think this has to go in in some way shape or form. I think what our chair is trying to do is get to some place where we can um at least address this issue without making a firm recommendation that we go off and do something. So I I don't know. Mr chair, we probably beat this one enough. uh We don't want dead bodies, we don't want dead horses.

L

Is there a way for us to move on from here and just uh move on.

H

A

Appreciate that I have.

H

To admit is that each one of us has have a business that we're running and we have vested interest in that particular item. You all are supporting small businesses represent small business, so it is financially uh good for you for this to be in here.

H

Okay, so let's just admit that, and if we're going to put this in then we should say there should be a disclaimer that we don't have to mention anybody by name, but that we can't really go any further with this, because there are too many people on the committee that have uh some financial interest or some vested interest or otherwise um or a conflict of interest. I.

A

I don't think we need to put that further. I don't think we need to put something like that in there uh peter, because all of us bring um our experience and our positions and uh and the like to this commission we're all. I think um I obviously didn't appoint people on this commission. I think the idea was to uh bring as diverse in every sense of the word, uh a group of people with experience um to work together in good faith, to come up with something productive that the county can actually can actually use peter.

A

You wanted to say something a moment ago. Please go ahead.

F

Thank you. I wanted to ask uh whether it was to the positive or to the negative, to consider referencing the fact that um there has been a debate about this and that uh there have been there. We've received input from uh other associations or not. That would be one question if you want to, um one could do as the redistricting commission did, and that is to put letters that they received on the commission's website, so that it is available to the public to see how we came to various aspects of our discussion.

H

I would have, I would have no issue with that.

A

H

L

Actually, in my mind, I don't have an issue with that only because I think everything- and this is my piece- whether it's the surveys- that we received- whether it's the input that we received in the in the um in the session that we did a public input meeting.

L

In my mind, all of that should be on the website, so I I wouldn't have any objection to that. I.

H

Think it's all about being transparent, we need to be transparent and those that read the report may not on. They don't understand the discussions that went on so as as much as we can be transparent. It is a good thing.

A

Yeah, well, I I think we're all in favor of that. Well how about this um uh I'm happy if everyone would like me to to take a shot at writing, a paragraph that incorporated its effort to mention this this tool, this debate um that refers to input and the like.

A

That's on the website um and see if I can sum it up in a way that everybody can live with and if I send that around and give me a day or two and see if we can't have it work that way, because I I I don't think we can just step away and not say anything. So if there's gonna have something we all can live with, and that hits the uh the transparency piece and the significance piece uh and again mindful of our charge about small business in the executive order.

A

So I'm I'd be happy.

I

A

A stab at that, unless somebody else would like to uh and I'd welcome that, but if not I'll do it send something around and we can all weigh in on. If we need to get uh reconvene we can we can do that, but I'll. I will do my level best to address everybody's concern, but do it in a way that um thank you, flex, the all the careful thought and the passions and the reasoning that this commission is brought to everything is that is that, okay, I try that all good.

D

Scott, you said there was something else that on our committee, that hadn't been resolved.

L

It would be helpful for me um if we drop that piece in I know we've got some other things, because I don't call it if you recall- um and I can't remember what they all were, but there were some additional points that we made that I thought we had concurred on associated with um reviewing goals by agency.

L

If you could recall, I think that was one of them and I don't think that was in the interim report.

H

Payment was won, payment was.

D

Yeah that when I wrote that um the secondary one we were able to to agree on that one. Yes,.

L

So I think there were just a few things: there were a few things carla. We just need to drop the drop the intro and then let's go back to our notes, real quick and make sure we've gotten all those in.

A

The most controversial.

L

Was this one, but we've got to get those others in well.

A

That's a great point, so I'm going to ask the subcommittee to do to pull that together. Yes, then, let me offer up my my uh uh compromise uh language for everybody to take a look at and then we can. If that will work uh or work as tweet and everybody agrees and we could then we can drop that piece in as well. But okay, I would ask the subcommittee to pull those charges together, um and uh so they then gets it. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna, get a draft uh draft compromise language.

A

um Everybody else please go back. Take take another uh close. Look at this last final, this final draft that you have carla when your group is ready. Please send that section. Everybody can take a look at it. um We need to have everything back to jasmine to keep this thing rolling by the third I'll, send an email, everybody reminding them of that of that uh that deadline, and um then we'll uh we'll see this uh we'll see this through. uh Yes,.

C

I

Just want to get some.

C

Beyond the sustainability, what was being requested, I think pete kind of framed it and I want to make sure I do the homework if we're looking for examples is that to justify the paragraph for ourselves and it would not be included or do you want to have examples, because, during some of the it's very easy to find just go to environmental justice and tons and tons of stuff pops up, there's you know part of the epa that deals with it too so is is. uh Do is this to satisfy that?

C

That's a real problem, or did you want like links in the statement that say, here's where environmental justice is is documented as an issue, because there's medical journal articles epa articles and on and on I'm happy leaving it the way it is, but I just if I'm going to do some work to clarify this, I want to make sure that I get the the way. Whoever had concerns, I think, was pete, but maybe others are addressed properly.

F

I think, with steve.

C

Steve, okay,.

J

I mean I'll just say this is elizabeth I'll, just say that with jen iosa here and her team, I think you know they they get it they'll, get it they're going to be implementing those recommendations. I mean one or two sort of very standard reference articles links, but I wouldn't go to a lot of work. They're, they're, very much engaged on that aspect of sustainability.

B

J

Of the federal money coming down will undoubtedly um require that lens so, um and the county executive in general focuses on equity and sustainability as parallel pillars of a lot of our work.

C

I appreciate that. I appreciate that completely, and you know this was the original draft of this was months and months ago before jen was here, and so um you know that's that's retained. um I can put in a couple of links and you know essentially keep the same language so that if anybody has any questions, is this really a problem? Is this really an issue and they'll be, and one is going to probably be a journal article and the other is the epa?

C

So not not an opinion piece, in other words, great.

A

Thank you I'll, send that out and.

C

That's okay, then you can incorporate it thanks.

A

Thanks dan, okay, everybody, um uh one of our liveliest meetings, uh may actually be. Our may actually be our last uh meeting, um subject to something coming up that we all need to reconvene for. um I do plan on having us, reconvene, um uh post, post final report going to press um and uh I'll pull the details of that together, but that will be uh social not subject to the public meeting act, um because I would like the opportunity um for those who want.

H

A

I'd like very much like the opportunity to spend some social time with with everybody, so uh okay for anything else, for the good of the order. While we are all together at the moment,.

A

All right well, thank you all for um a very thoughtful and lively discussion. uh Again, it's an absolute um privilege to serve with you. um Let's we'll all take those next steps, we're going to get the information and additional wording and revised wording out.

A

Please get your edits to jasmine and um we'll uh we'll we'll stay in touch via email and again. If we do need to reconvene we'll we'll do it, um but thank you all for your time today.

D

A

Yes, commissioner,.

D

Yes for the mbe subcommittee, if we can um I'm going to email back out the secondary um portions of the recommendations and if we can just do a reply all email by monday, um that would be great, I'm I'm I'm not putting pressure on any of us for tomorrow and back up the weekend, so if we can just say, buy clothes of business on monday, I think that would be good. Are we okay with that?

D

Yeah? Okay, thank you.

A

All right, everybody.

D

E

A

Have a great evening take.

E

Care, hey phil. Can you stay up for.

A

One minute um uh sure all right.