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A
B
C
D
D
If
you
look
at
the
action
summaries,
there's
three
different
recommendations
that
were
made
in
the
staff
report,
so
you
guys
have
to
decide
which
way
you
want
to
go.
B
Crystal,
can
you
please
read
that
three
different
options?
Are
they
too
long.
D
There
were
three
different
recommendations:
one
was
from
public
works
and
transportation
to
do.
W3,
capital
facilities,
area,
sewer
designation,
is
deferred.
They
deferred
sewer,
designation
to
epsom
planning.
D
C
Be
it
move
that
the
baltimore
county
planning
board,
adopts
staff
recommendation
and
reports
for
the
water
and
sewage
plan
amendment
cycle
39
reference
number
2101
to
designate
as
w3
capital
facilities
area.
Sewer
designation
is
deferred
to
apps
and
planning
to
be
forwarded
to
the
baltimore
county
council.
D
I'm
sorry
to
interrupt,
but
we
will
still
need
to
know
which
sewer,
because
planning
had
a
different
sewer
designation.
We
recommended
and
environmental
had
a
different
one.
C
Right
so
I
think
that
the
challenges
the
public
works
didn't
the
sewer.
E
C
C
The
way
that
I'm
reading
this
is
public
works
had
a
set
it
as
a
w3
for
the
water
deferred
to
f's
for
the
sewer.
B
Yes,
is
it?
Is
it
possible
that
we
show
the
different
options
on
the
screen
that
was
asked
by
a
board
member?
Please,
if
not,
what
we
can
do
is
entertain
mr
warren's
motion
and
if
the
rest
of
the
board
is
not
prepared
to
make
a
motion
on
that
this
evening,
mr
lafferty,
would
we
be
able
to
tailor
the
table
this
until
the
board
has
time
to
review
the
three
different
options.
F
E
B
Okay
is
every
is
there
a
second
on
that
motion.
D
C
B
Yeah,
I
think
crystal
we'll,
do
we'll
we'll
we'll
take
this
and
then
everyone
will
have
an
opportunity
to
look
over
it
for
our
next
meeting
and
then
please
board
members
come
prepared
to
vote
on
it
for
our
next
meeting.
D
F
I
just
brian
does
does
tabling
present
any
particular
challenge
for
the
department
needing
to
advance
this
matter.
If
it's
table
two
next
meeting,
which
is
september
23rd,
yes,.
A
B
Okay.
Moving
on,
we
have
a
special
presentation
by
paul
mills
from
canon
designs
consultant
to
baltimore
county
on
the
multi-year
improvement
plan
for
all
schools
commonly
referred
to
as
mypass
at
the
january
26
2021
planning
board
meeting.
Mr
mills
delivered
an
initial
presentation
on
the
scope
of
work.
Canon
design
is
providing
to
baltimore
county
on
the
multi-year
improvement
plan
for
all
schools.
B
F
Madam
chair,
if
I
may,
I
believe
that
either
samantha
o'neil
or
jennifer
lynch
from
the
county
executive's
office
also
wanted
to
make
a
couple
of
comments
or
to
to
introduce
this.
If
you
don't
mind.
H
Thanks
director
lafferty,
thank
you,
madam
chair.
For
those
who
don't
know
me,
I
am
sam
o'neill.
I
serve
as
the
senior
advisor
to
the
county
executive.
My
colleague
dr
jennifer,
lynch
is
on
the
call
and
and
jen.
I
know
that
madam
chair
did
a
great
job,
introducing
the
concept
and
sort
of
the
update,
but
I'd
I'd
love
for
you
to
just
provide
a
couple
of
comments
on
the
importance
of
this
project
on
behalf
of
the
of
the
county.
If
you
don't
mind
before
we
give
it
over
to
paul.
I
Absolutely
thank
you
so
much
everybody
for
allowing
us
to
be
here
today.
As
you
know,
the
multi-year
improvement
plan
for
all
schools
has
been
underway.
I
So
the
work
has
been
ongoing.
It's
been
very
comprehensive.
The
work
of
canon
design
has
included
multiple
phases
and
stages
that
has
included
input
from
baltimore
county
public
schools,
personnel
from
our
public
from
stakeholder
groups.
There
have
been
surveys
and
community
forums.
It
has
really
been
a
co-constructed
capital
planning
list.
I
Taking
into
consideration
multiple
data
points,
as
well
as
input
from
our
communities,
so
that
it
really
does
meet
the
needs
and
is
reflective
of
what
baltimore
county
needs
moving
forward,
sam
did
you
is
there
anything
else
that
you
want
to
add
before
I
kick
this
over
to
mr
mills
and
mr
lieber
and
doctor
that
was.
I
All
right,
so
we
have
on
the
phone
with
us
today
we
have
paul
mills
and
dr
lever,
who
are
the
project
leads,
and
I
will
let
them
take
it
away.
J
Fantastic
thanks
for
the
introduction
and
you
really
hit
the
high
points
of
what
we're
going
to
present.
What
you
had
advanced
copy
of
as
pdf
format,
is
a
little
longer
than
what
we
will
be
presenting
today.
We've
kind
of
skinned
it
down
to
really
hit
the
high
point,
so
we'd
leave
enough
time
for
some
q
a
at
the
end
of
this.
So
we
might
see
some
slides
or
we'll
skip
some
slides
that
you
might
have
in
front
of
you
in
your
electronic
copy
of
it.
J
John
paul
mills
with
canon
design
in
partnership
with
educational
facilities,
planning
otherwise
known
as
dr
david
lever,
we're
here,
and
we've
enjoyed
this
process
trending
and
look
for
two
nice
content
with
you.
So
just
a
quick
recap
of
purpose
of
of
the
intent
of
this
project
that
was
summarized
just
a
moment
ago.
Really
it's
about
creating
roadmap
for
your
cat
improvements,
programs
for
your
predictable
and
even
by
data
at
the
foundation,
with
the
goal
of
maximizing
state
funding
as
part
of
it.
J
It's
a
comprehensive
study
in
which
we
look
not
just
at
the
capacity
or
just
at
the
condition.
We
also
added
to
those
updated
studies,
a
measure
of
all
the
educational
adequacy
and
equity
of
the
facilities
across
the
entire
county,
as
mentioned
before
it
didn't
include
a
very
overt,
even
despite
the
pandemic,
very
overt
program
of
outreach
and
participation
of
community
members
that
ranges
from
students,
very
importantly,
from
teachers,
parents,
community
members,
business
leaders,
etc,
engaged
in
part
of
this
process.
J
And
finally,
at
the
end
there,
it's
really
driven
with
the
notion
that
there's
a
priority
on
allocating
resources
in
an
equitable
manner.
J
Considering
all
their
various
needs
and
limitable
limited
resources
in
an
equitable,
reasonable
time
frame,
there
are
other
types
of
studies
that
happen
a
little
bit
later
in
this
process
and
we're
recommending
some
of
these
that
the
work
continues
and
the
program
continues
and
that
would
be
focused
due
diligence
that
are
focusing
on
specific
sites.
Looking
at
things
like,
perhaps
the
notion
of
needing
to
acquire
land
or
to
do
educational
programming,
what
sorts
of
educational,
pedagogies
and
content
curriculum
are
aspired
as
well
as
more
in
depth.
J
Community
outreach
is
part
of
a
very
strategic,
important
sorts
of
decisions
that
need
to
be
made.
There's
also
sorts
of
studies
that
happen
later
in
the
process,
some
of
which
are
very
present
at
the
moment.
But
there
are
funding
processes
that
require
some
administrative
studies
that
are
out
there,
such
as
capital,
f,
capital
s.
J
A
feasibility
study,
that's
required
to
address
very
specific
questions,
such
as
the
case
of
a
couple
of
high
schools
in
your
county
that
have
been
under
consideration
for
replacement,
but
it's
a
administrative
requirement
to
do
it's
a
different
type
of
study,
a
different
sort
of
question.
Ours
looks
at
the
needs
of
the
entire
county,
whereas
other
ones
are
more
focused
on
single
sites
and
don't
consider
the
needs
of
all
the
other
schools
in
the
entire
county.
Nor
does
it
consider
the
scarcity
of
resources
that
are
available.
J
So
I'm
not
going
to
walk
you
through
step
by
step
what
we
did,
but
the
numbers
really
tell
the
story
that
there
was
a
very
overt
attempt
to
to
gain
the
perspectives
and
opinions
of
stakeholders
with
all
the
folks
that
I
mentioned
earlier.
But
there
have
been
over
a
hundred
individuals
that
have
not
just
attended
one
meeting
and
they're
done.
We
call
it
outreach,
but
rather
a
hundred
members
that
have
participated
in
an
iterative
planning
process
that
was
structured
in
which
there
were
22
planning
workshops,
12
hours
of
community
forums.
J
K
J
Of
it
well,
there's
three
main
themes
that
really
jumped
out
when
we
looked
at
the
results
from
the
surveys
that
are
out
there.
One
is
that
equitable
distribution
of
resources
is
really
in
the
dna
of
this
process,
and
it
really
is
a
high
priority.
You
can
see
here
from
this
particular
question
about
just
the
allocation
of
resources,
should
it
benefit
as
many
students
as
possible,
and
you
can
see
from
the
graphic
here
how
a
great
majority
either
strongly
agree
or
agree
that
that
is
the
way
to
go.
J
There's
clearly,
people
want
the
benefits
from
any
sort
of
capital
improvements
to
happen
near
rather
than
later,
but
when
we
ask
the
question
within
the
construct
of
waiting
for
a
replacement
facility
that
he
has,
you
know
very,
very
positive
outcome
at
the
end
that
there
was
a
tolerance
that
really
trailed
off
around
15
years
as
part
of
it,
with
a
great
majority
of
82
percent
that
prefer
15
years
or
less
than
that
when
you
were
to
logically
compare
that
to
well
there's,
not
even
a
replacement
at
the
end,
but
just
waiting
for
a
renovation.
J
You
would
think
that
the
tolerance
would
be
even
less
on
that,
but
we
we've
looked
at
the
balance
of
needs
and
resources
and
targeted
around
a
15-year
cycle
which,
by
the
way,
is
consistent
with
a
lot
of
funding
refreshes
of
systemic
replacements,
at
schools
driven
by
the
state
of
maryland,
as
well
as
it's
around
this
the
life
cycle,
time
of
a
little
bit
more
than
a
student's
pre-k
through
12
experience
within
the
school
system.
J
Third
takeaway
we
had
this
prioritization
question,
which
we
asked
the
stakeholders
to
rank
all
these
various
priorities
there,
and
we
focused
on
the
top
three
here
as
a
matter
of
course,
that
access
to
academic
opportunities
is
really
the
number
one
priority
here
that
every
student
close
second
to
it
is
that
every
student
should
have
a
seat
inside
the
building,
meaning
that
capacity
is
really
a
pain
point.
We
know
that
measurably
through
the
assessments
that
were
done
after
that
safe
supportive
environment,
clearly
a
high
priority.
J
L
B
J
Talking
about
some
dollars
and
numbers-
and
I
want
to
make
sure
that
it's
really
clear
where
these
numbers
come
from
and
how
we're
stating
them,
the
the
estimates
are
based
on
facility
assessments.
We
had
teams
of
architects
and
engineers
visit
all
the
schools
to
look
at
the
condition
of
all
the
various
systems
that
comprise
your
buildings,
as
well
as
looking
at
the
sorts
of
needs
that
are
out
there
educationally
and
also
a
benchmark
comparison
of
supports
for
at-risk
populations
that
are
out
there.
J
So
there's
definitely
an
equity
lens
as
a
component
of
it,
and
the
numbers
are
driven
by
a
professional,
consistent
industry,
standard
approach
to
cost
estimating
all
the
numbers
we're
going
to
state
here
are
in
today's
dollars.
We're
doing
that
for
simplicity,
because
we
don't
know
exactly
when
each
and
every
project
lands
over
time,
and
we
don't
want
to
overstate
something
that
could
be
pushed
up
in
the
cycle
or
understate
what
could
be
pushed
back
in
a
way
that
would
be
inequitable.
The
process
we've
normalized
everything
at
today's
dollars.
J
However,
we're
not
ignoring
the
fact
that
there
is
cost
escalation
over
time
for
construction
and
we've
presumed
that
there
is
a
baseline.
We
gave
it
an
actual
generous
boost
for
our
current
year
of
10
escalation,
but
a
on
out
for
the
duration,
an
annual
more
or
less
four
percent
cost
desolation
as
an
assumption
of
capital
costs.
J
The
square
feet
figures
that
we
use
for
cost
estimating
are
based
on
your
local
priorities.
The
way
you
build
schools
in
baltimore
county
which
exceeds
the
minimum
requirements
that
the
state
requires
and
will
fund.
We
do
know
that
you
have
higher
standards
and
higher
priorities
and
we've
assumed
that
for
cost
estimating
purposes.
J
So,
at
the
end
of
the
day,
we
talked
about
some
of
the
numbers.
I
hope
this
is
visible
on
the
screen
there,
but
certainly
in
the
pdf,
but
you
can
visibly
see
here
that
the
the
cost
of
doing
all
the
most
expensive
capital
options
that
were
designed
as
are
considered
as
part
of
this
and
has
raised
with
heavy
participation
of
stakeholders
approaching
5
billion
4.7.
J
And
then
you
compare
that
to
a
15-year
expected
budget
that
you
would
have
of
2.5
billion.
Clearly,
there's
a
shortfall
between
the
two,
the
2.5
is.
The
numbers
add
up
like
this
that
traditionally
you're
on
a
trajectory
of
spending
about
140
million
on
average
per
year,
the
majority
of
which
comes
from
the
county.
But
there
is
a
significant
participation
from
the
state.
J
Also
we're
presuming
that
there
is
about
400
million
of
built
to
learn
dollars
and
we're
understanding.
This
is
actually
it
might
come
in
faster
than
10
years
than
on
the
books
which
we're
really
excited
about
which
enables
us
to
accelerate
certain
project
projects,
as
part
of
our
recommendations
to
you
so
clearly,
as
the
little
line
shows
there
there's
a
shortfall,
so
we
did.
Is
we
looked
at
things
in
terms
of
the
incremental
cost
to
achieve
these
mission
critical
goals?
J
J
So
if
we're
talking
about
an
educational
strategy
project
or
what
we're
calling
premium
projects,
it
would
be
the
the
surplus
cost
or
the
additional
cost
beyond
what
the
base
costs
of
doing
renovations
or
additions
would
be
another
point
when
we're
talking
about
managed
growth
and
that's
the
capacity
growth
keeping
up
with
the
crowding
that
you
have
in
several
of
your
schools
that
they're
when
we're
talking
about
those
projects,
that's
just
the
addition
part
of
it.
We're
also
recommending
renovations
at
those
schools
as
well.
J
So
the
the
budgets
for
those
particular
groups
of
schools
is
actually
much
larger
than
what
would
be
described
by
the
managed
growth.
So
the
different
we
categorize
things,
so
we
could
think
across
the
entire
county
in
terms
of
what's
right
for
any
student's
right
for
all
students
to
look
at
the
the
hierarchy
of
needs.
That
are
out
there,
so
we
have
a
class
of
projects
that
are
projects
that
are
underway,
that
there's
already
been
capital
investment
towards
the
completion
of
it,
whether
it's
in
design
or
construction,
and
we
call
those
legacy
projects
right.
J
These
are
the
schools
of
our
future
there's
a
replacement
of
lansdowne
high
school
and
others
that
are
already
committed
on
the
books
and
work
already
being
done,
and
those
recommending
continue
forward,
carry
those
out
to
completion,
and
next
category
is
managed
growth.
These
are
the
addition
sorts
of
projects
that
keep
up
with
not
just
classroom
capacity,
but
also
looking
at
the
core
facilities
to
make
sure
that
you
have
the
right,
size,
cafeterias,
etc.
J
Educational
strategy
is
and
we'll
talk
about
the
specifics
of
these
in
a
little
bit,
but
these
are
very
specific
strategies
that
need
to
be
addressed
head
on
and
in
a
way
that
has
a
big
overarching
portfolio
scale
issue
relative
to
the
number
of
schools,
the
types
of
programs
etc.
These
would
be
new
programs,
perhaps
grade
reconfiguration
or
even
consolidation
of
schools.
That's
considered
special
education.
J
J
M
J
That
there
is
yet
to
be
determined,
exact
outcomes
for
the
blueprint
for
maryland's
future
very
exciting
program
to
expand
pre-k
early
education
in
the
county,
and
we
wanted
to
acknowledge
that
that's
out
there
we
did
a
very
early
impact
study.
We
believe
it's
somewhere
around
one
year's
worth
of
capital
improvements
of
initial
impact
that
you
probably
would
perceive
as
part
of
that
we
don't
know
when
it's
going
to
hit
and
and
what
kind
of
magnitude
or,
if
there's
funding
available
for
it.
So
we've
treated
it
in
a
very
specific
way.
J
We'll
describe
it
a
moment,
then
our
last
category
here
is
premium
projects.
These
are
things
that
are
that
we
would
love
to
do
if
all
the
resources
in
the
world
were
available
to
us,
but
that
it's
difficult
to
recommend
in
light
of
the
scarcity
of
resources
and
all
the
magnitude
of
need
that
are
out
there.
The
sorts
of
things
that
would
be
would
be
to
build
additions
at
schools
that
have
crowding
when
there's
a
neighboring
school
that
has
surplus
capacity.
J
That
could
be
addressed
with
a
non-capital
solution
by
moving
boundaries
or
attendance
boundaries
as
part
of
it
and
other
examples
are
complete
demolition
and
replacement
of
schools
instead
of
doing
renovations
and
additions
on
them.
So
how
do
we
close
this
gap?
Budget
gap
there's
really
three
main
broad
categories.
The
way
to
do
it,
one
you
can
take
longer
to
pay
it
off
and
get
it
done.
So
it's
just
like
taking
a
longer
mortgage
out.
J
You
could
afford
a
little
bit
more
house
or
you
can
get
a
little
bit
more
car
if
you
have
more
payments
to
amortize
it
over
time.
But,
as
we
talked
about
earlier,
your
your
stakeholders
have
suggested
that
their
patience
is
is
on
the
shorter
end
and
we're
prescribing
kind
of
what
we
believe
is
kind
of
the
max
reasonable
time
frame
to
be
recommending
capital
projects.
J
Another
way
is
to
dig
deeper,
find
more
money,
use
alternative
funding
sources
out
there,
there's
we're
making
recommendations
that
you
explore
public
private
partnerships
as
a
mechanism
to
perhaps
close
the
gap,
but
that
needs
careful
consideration
of
the
cost
of
capital
et
cetera,
but
to
do
all
these
projects
over
time.
You
probably
need
to
come
up
with
another
80
million
more
per
year
when
you're
spending
about
140
million
per
year.
M
J
J
So
our
recommendations?
We
looked
at
all
the
4.7
billion
dollars
worth
of
needs
illustrated
on
the
left
and
we
have
drilled
down
and
come
up
with
a
recommendable
package
that
actually
fits
your
15-year
budget
of
2.5
billion.
So
key
points
of
what
our
recommendation
is
one
you
can
afford
it.
It's
within
your
your.
K
J
J
All
of
the
legacy
projects
are
included
in
our
recommendations
and
additions
on
redistricting
recommendations
that
we
were
putting
forward.
That
would
bring
you
to
the
2026
27
school
years,
enrollment
projections,
which
we've
used
as
our
baseline
for
target.
That
would
get
it
down
to
100
across
the
board,
so
you
wouldn't
have
any
schools
that
would
be
overcrowded
by
that
sort
of
time
frame.
J
It
also
includes
select
educational
strategy
projects
to
describe
in
a
minute
with
improvements
for
special
education,
alternative
education
and
significant
1.6
billion
dollars
worth
of
renovation
enhancement.
Projects
will
describe
in
a
little
bit
and
the
way
we've
dealt
with
pre-k,
with
all
the
unknowns
that
are
out
there
and
the
presumption
that
it
is
around
with
our
early
impact.
Studies
is
probably
around
a
year's
cycle
of
your
capital
improvements
that
you
work
that
into
the
prioritization.
J
But
what
you
do
is
you
extend
your
program
timeline
by
one
year
or
so
to
be
able
to
accommodate
that,
but
still
stick
to
the
scopes
of
work
that
we're
recommending
just
working
that
new
priority
in
there.
If
and
when
that
happens,
and
what
you
know,
the
part
of
our
recommendations
you
can
visually
see
here
is
that
those
premium
projects
are
not
included
in
our
recommendations.
J
Visually.
Looking
at
all
these
projects
across
the
map,
every
single
school
in
the
portfolio
has
a
bare
minimum.
A
prioritized
renovation
is
associated
with
it
now.
Clearly,
your
newer
facilities
from
that
were
built
within
the
last
several
years
recently
would
have
a
much
smaller
scope
to
it,
and
these
would
be
taking
care
of
the
systemic
repairs
of
building
systems
that
would
elapse
over
a
15
year,
age
time
frame,
but
in
your
older
facilities,
they'd
be
much
beyond
that
and
include
a
lot
more
enhancements
to
bring
them
up
to
today's
standards.
J
There's
five
replacement
schools
that
are
all
from
your
slate
of
legacy
projects.
There's
28
edition
renovation
projects,
132
renovations
and
perhaps
some
repurposed
com
campuses
I'll
describe
in
a
minute
elicit
schools
and
I'll
pause
here
and
what
I
would
suggest
is
you
look
at
your
pdf
or
do
a
quick
screen
capture
here.
So,
if
you
have
specific
interest
in
schools,
it'll
enable
me
to
move
on
in
the
presentation,
and
if
you
have
any
specific
questions
about
school,
we
can
address
them
now.
We
did
look
at
trade-offs
as
part
of
this
with
scarcity
sources.
J
Scenarios
is
a
real
hard
call
about
how
we
would
move
forward
on
this
and
make
our
recommendations,
but
we're
looking
at
if
we're
to
do
all
those
premium
projects
that
were
out
there.
What
that
would,
in
effect
do
it
would
eclipse
that
what
we're
recommending
for
renovations
at
90
campuses
across
the
county,
so
that
would
push
rent
of
any
sort
of
capital
improvements
that
we
would
do
at
those
at
the
scale
we
were
recommending
beyond
the
15-year
horizon.
J
We're
real
happy
to
share
is
that
this
is
in
very
close
alignment
with
your
community
preferences
as
part
of
the
survey
there's
a
survey
with
with
thousands
of
responses
in
which
they
were
to
measure
their
level
of
support
for
all
the
various
options
that
were
explored,
and
this
wasn't
a
case
where
here's
the
plan.
What
do
you
think
it
was
a
you
have
option
a
option
b,
option
c
sort
of
scenario.
J
The
ones
that
are
in
red
are
ones
that
anyone
who
associated
with
any
of
the
high
schools
within
the
central
region,
their
vote
would
be
counted
in
the
red
bars
there.
So,
as
you
can
see,
there's
actually
an
abundance
of
responses
out
of
central,
a
large
turnout
from
delaney
towson
they're,
very
organized.
They
used
social
media
to
get
the
word
out
and
they
got
a
very
healthy
response
out
of
that
proportionally
much
higher
than
other
parts
of
the
county.
J
You
can
look
at
the
comparison
here
option
a
was
the
additions
renovations
that
we
are
recommending
and
you
can
see
proportionally
the
votes
for
that
are
lower
than
for
option
b
to
replace
delaney
and
towson.
However,
it's
not
quite
as
dramatic
as
you
might
think
in
terms
of
overall
totals
here.
If
you
look
at
kind
of
where
I'm
shaking
my
mouse
right
here
versus
right
here,
also,
you
see
the
proportion
of
the
votes
locally
there.
J
It's
clearly
the
folks
that
would
benefit
from
the
sort
of
outcome
of
a
replace
school
or
voting
in
favor
of
that
versus
other
parts
of
the
county.
We
did
look
and
disaggregate
the
data
by
the
student
voice,
just
looking
at
student
responses,
both
from
within
central
cluster,
as
well
as
across
the
entire
county,
and
it's
interesting
to
note
that
the
proportion
is
much
more
closer
to
the
middle.
J
When
you
look
at
the
preferences
towards
the
addition,
renovation
versus
others,
so
clearly,
the
adults
have
a
different
perspective
than
the
students
on
the
outcomes
and
recommendations
we're
putting
forward
the
only
other
area
that
we're
seeing
is
we're
not
recommending
a
clear-cut.
This
is
the
way
to
go
forward.
J
However,
when
we
disaggregated
it
down
even
further
to
just
the
one
school
that
would
really
significantly
been
impacted
and
one
would
grow
to
a
large
scale
beyond
what
you
traditionally
see
in
baltimore
county
and
that's
perry,
hall
high
school
there's,
actually
a
preference
for
the
new
school
and
what
I'm
hearing
from
that
is,
you
know,
don't
grow
us
any
further.
We're
big
enough
we're
looking
at
that
data
and
our
recommendations
are
that
we
need
to
go
through
further
due
diligence
and
study.
J
So,
what's
included
in
this
process
quickly,
go
through
and
describe
it,
here's
the
list
of
legacy
projects
and
I'm
going
to
presume
that
you're
pretty
familiar
with
all
these
projects
here.
So
if
you
want
to
do
a
quick
screen
grab
or
look
at
your
pdf
and
move
forward
with
that
managed
growth,
these
are
the
schools
where
we're
recommending
additions
and
renovations.
J
These
are
grouped
by
clusters
geographically,
and
in
many
cases
we
haven't
dealt
down
exactly
the
number
of
seats
of
each
school
because
we
we
know
that
it'll
take
time
to
develop
some
of
these
projects,
and
it's
we're
saying
perhaps
like
in
the
instance
of
delaney
loch
raven
and
towson
high
school
in
that
area.
There's
probably
with
your
projected
enrollment
about
the
need
of
about
500
additional
seats
among
those.
J
We
could
tell
you
today
what
we
think
is
the
best
decision
for
how
many
seats
at
each
one
of
those
schools.
However,
by
the
time
it
takes
to
get
those
designed
and
built,
it's
probably
better,
to
take
a
new
snapshot,
particularly
in
light
of
the
coronavirus,
little
hiccup
we're
seeing
in
enrollment
projections.
We
want
to
make
sure
that
you're
making
those
decisions
at
the
time
of
implementation
in
a
responsible
way,
so
we've
kind
of
clustered
our
recommendations
around
different
groups
of
schools,
educational
strategy,
328
million,
some
big
big
decisions
that
need
to
be
made.
J
I
mentioned
the
new
high
school
in
the
northeast
as
a
potentiality
or
additions
at
your
existing
high
schools,
and
our
recommendation
is
to
do
that
due
diligence
that
I
described
earlier
down
in
sparrows
point.
We
have
a
very
unique
situation
and
inequitable
situation
across
the
whole
county
where
you
have
a
middle
school
in
high
school
that
occupy
one
campus
and
operate.
You
know
very.
C
J
But
they
operate
on
one
campus
and
it's
just
unlike
any
other
situation,
you
have
across
the
county
and
there
has
been
a
preference
lifted
up
by
stakeholders
both
community
as
well
as
internal
folks,
that
they
want
to
explore
the
notion
of
finding
a
new
home
for
the
middle
school,
which
will
help
relieve
the
capacity
crunch.
You
have
at
the
site,
as
well
as
create
that
distance,
to
enable
a
lot
of
to
alleviate
some
of
the
social
emotional
learning,
challenges
that
are
associated
with
mixing
those
two
populations
together.
J
So
we're
recommending
that,
just
like
with
the
high
school
scenario
that
some
further
due
diligence
be
done
to
see
what
the
the
preferences
are,
the
communities
as
well
as
look
at
available
land
down
there,
which
is
difficult.
But
there
are
potential
new
developments
down
the
horizon
there
to
find
out
some
solutions.
So
there
are
different
scenarios
that
have
been
explored,
build
a
new
middle
school
on
new
land.
J
One
is
to
build
a
new
middle
school
in
one
of
your
two
elementaries
that
are
on
the
spears
point
peninsula,
and
then
the
other
school
would
be
rebuilt
larger
to
accommodate
both
of
the
school
populations,
which
would
enable
the
high
school
to
be
renovated.
At
the
end,
there's
several
other
program
improvements
categorically
here,
I'm
looking
at
great
reconfiguration.
J
O
E
O
J
Unique
situation
down
between
norwood,
elementary
and
haliburton
middle,
in
which
they
operate
on
a
different
grade
configuration
the
schools
are
in
very
close
proximity
to
each
other.
However,
you
have
a
pre-k
through
three
program
and
a
four
through
eight
middle
school,
which
has
kind
of
some
challenges
associated
with
accountability,
as
well
as
with
preparedness
of
students,
etc
and
social
emotional
aspects,
and
there
is
a
strong
desire
by
stakeholders
directly
affected
by
it,
measurably
from
our
surveys
that
are
done
to
rectify
that.
J
There's
expansion
of
elementary
magnets
is
of
interest,
particularly
at
cromwell
magnets
kind
of
a
waitlist
program,
and
while
that
is
in
kind
of
the
corner
between
central
and
northeast
areas
of
the
county,
that
there's
a
lot
of
capacity
needs
in
that
area.
We're
saying,
while
we're
growing
with
additions
just
to
accommodate
growth,
then
we
have
a
little
bit
of
increment
more
to
be
able
to
expand,
magnet
offerings
beyond
just
the
immediate
area
which
will
create
more
access
and
diversity
as
part
of
the
outcomes.
J
We're
also
recommending
careertech
education
improvements
across
the
county,
and
that
needs
to
be
done
with
a
careertech,
ed
master
plan
that
goes
deeper
into
it
and
looks
at
the
types
of
pathways
that
are
out
there.
We've
done
some
mapping
and
studies.
We
know
that
geographically,
it's
really
gone
where
the
talent
is
available
to
teach
the
programs,
but
there
is
the
need
for
some
intentional
programming
and
planning
of
where
these
programs
would
exist
to
create
more
equitable
access.
J
You
also
have
two
sites
that
are
very
specific
eastern
tech,
western
tech,
awesome
programs
that
are
kind
of
take
care
of
your
more
southerly
aspects
of
the
county.
However,
in
the
northwest
and
central
parts
of
the
county,
they
don't
have
access
to
that
sort
of
program
without
having
to
go
great
distances.
J
J
We
looked
at
the
notion
of
perhaps
that
we
do
this
through
a
cost
neutral
approach
through
a
public-private
partnership
where
you
can
surplus
property
that
could
generate
revenue
streams
or
generate
land
swaps
that
could
just
gets
a
bit
beyond
the
scale
of
doing
a
mypass
type
plan.
However,
we're
putting
recommendations
that
at
least
be
explored.
We
don't
have
a
budget
in
there
for
the
capital
costs
of
doing
this
sort
of
thing,
but
rather
that
it
be
explored
to
look
at
cost
neutral
approaches
towards
it.
J
Special
education,
alternative
education,
71
million
dollars
for
enhancements
across
the
county,
to
address
these
vital
programs
that
are
out
there.
A
couple
highlights
about
that
is
right.
Now
white
oak,
the
former
white
oak
elementary
school
houses,
a
special
education
center,
a
very
vital
program
that
is
in
a
larger
facility
than
they
necessarily
need,
and
what
we're
recommending
is
that
a
special
purpose
built
to
suit
facility?
J
J
That
would
help
the
rest
of
the
renovations
and
capacity
enhanced
in
that
general
area
across
central
and
northeast
to
take
place
in
a
more
efficient
manner.
Saving
you
more
money
along
the
way
and
fueling
better
improvements
in
your
classes.
A
J
J
What
we're
recommending
is
that
be
considered
a
time
contingency
that
you
take
a
little
bit
longer
to
amortize
those
priorities
of
projects
instead
of
budgeting
for
it
today,
because
we
don't
know
yet
if
it's
really
going
to
be
a
capital
hit
that
isn't
unfunded
and
that
the
extent
magnitude
of
it
is
really
hazy
at
this
point,
so
we're
being
responsible
and
recommending
that
we
acknowledge
it's
out
there
and
that
we
have
a
plan
in
place
for
it
with
triggers
associated
with
it,
renovations.
J
This
goes
beyond
just
fixing
maintenance
type
sorts
of
affairs
it
gets
into
addressing
educational
needs,
it
levels
the
bar
and
get
your
your
older
facilities
closer
to
what
you
would
build
today
and
the
sorts
of
descriptors
of
the
sorts
of
things
that
are
out
there
on
the
screen
here
as
well.
We
did
an
assessment
that
measured
all
these,
comparing
the
yardstick
we
used
was
comparing
versus
what
you're
building
today
in
new
schools
at
towson,
as
well
as
red
house,
run
for
elementary
schools.
J
Another
important
critical
aspects
of
that
work
is
that
we
had
an
equity
component
of
this.
In
addition
to
the
way
we
did
it
with
a
consistent,
standards-based
approach,
which
has
equity
baked
in
just
by
the
manner
in
which
we
did
it.
We
also
looked
at
your
most
vulnerable
populations
that
are
out
there
looked
at
the
indicators
and
data
that
would
drive
out
the
need
for
specific
facility
supports,
like
we
have
here,
and
what
we're
recommending
are
shown
illustrated
where
they
would
exist
on
the
map.
J
C
J
The
next
steps
where
we
are
in
this
and
we're
just
about
finished
here.
So
we've
we've
presented
these
findings
and
our
excuse
me
our
recommendations
to
the
board
of
education
and
to
county
council
as
a
first
read-
and
this
is
the
extent
of
the
detail
that
they've
seen
so
far
to
date,
we
are
in
the
middle
of
documenting
this
dotting,
the
eyes
crossing
the
t's
and
flushing
out
all
the
details
and
sequencing
of
these
projects.
We're
looking
at
the
timeline.
J
This
kind
of
graphic
here
would
illustrate
how
those
different
categories
of
projects
might
amortize
across
your
local
funding
and
we're
in
the
middle
of
cash
flowing
that
out
and
figuring
the
best
sequence,
and
it's
really
driven
by
the
equitable
approach
of
using
the
objective
assessment
measures
that
we
did
when
we
spoke
to
you
before
about
the
findings
from
our
facility
assessments,
which
basically
asserts
that
those
with
higher
need
have
higher
priority
and
would
be
sequenced.
First.
B
P
There
might
be
no
bigger
issue
that
the
members
of
our
county,
the
people
live
in
our
county-
will
get
up
in
arms
about
as
we
see
throughout
the
country,
not
just
here
in
maryland.
P
Way
to
proceed
forward,
I
believe
you
know
to
try
to
convince
people
to
to
change
those
boundaries.
We
always
seem
to
hear
I've
been
on
been
on
the
planning
board.
Now
I
think,
12
years,
that
the
numbers
throughout
the
state
children
are
decreasing,
number
of
children
and
families
and
all,
but
it
never
seems
to
affect
you
know
the
overcrowding
that
we
seem
to
have
in
a
lot
of
the
schools.
I
understand
that
ties
into
redistricting
as
well.
P
I
know
we
have
older
schools
that
we
have,
you
know,
put
into
disservice
and
moved
them
to.
You
know:
county
recreation,
centers
and
also
we
have
given
up,
but
it
does
seem
that
we
have,
you
know,
built
a
lot
of
new
elementary
schools
in
the
last
10
or
so
years.
The
the
state
has,
you
know,
projected
that
they're
going
to
put
a
lot
of
money
into
new
construction
with
you
know,
with
the
new
funding
for
all
schools.
P
That
sounds
great,
but
again
you
know
they
are
very
expensive
to
build
a
new
school
versus
a
renovation,
and
then
I
guess
the
real
question
is:
you
know,
you've
projected
and
it's
a
little
bit
easy
for
you
to
say
that
the
money
will
be
there,
but
I
think
that
you're
going
to
see
in
the
next
10
or
15
or
20
years,
as
we
had
to
raise
our
taxes
somewhat
here
in
baltimore
county,
that
to
pay
for
these
new
schools
are
our
constituents,
the
people
that
live
here
in
baltimore
county,
which
is
now
a
minority
county
and
an
older
county,
going
to
be
willing
to
put
the
money
forth
to
build
these
new
schools,
whether
renovating
them
or
building
new
ones.
P
You
know
we
talked
about
this
last
year
with
the
capital
budget.
You
know
it's
easy
to
spend
money
on
paper,
our
children
very
important.
Absolutely
you
talked
about
the
pandemic.
Some
people
have
moved
their
children
into
parochial
schools.
Is
that
a
good
thing,
a
bad
thing,
you're
into
private
schools?
You
know
the
question
of
whether
vouchers
will
ever
come
out
from
the
state
to
help
pay
for
that,
then
that
will
keep
our
numbers
down.
Possibly
you
know
in
the
county
public
school
system.
I
mean
these
are
things
that
we
all
have
heard
about.
P
P
G
Yes,
nancy
so
paul.
First,
I
want
to
thank
you
for
this
presentation
and
the
detail,
provided
I
have
just
a
very
it's
a
specific
question
for
one
school,
which
is
cromwell
valley
elementary,
so
I
see
there's
a
proposal
to
expand
it.
I
think
it's
about
100
seat
edition.
Seven
years
ago
there
had
been
another
proposal
to
add,
I
think,
was
about
300
a
little
under
300
seats.
G
It
got
scaled
back
and
then
it
finally
got
killed.
Part
of
the
issue
there,
I
think,
was
the
lack
of
space
for
cromwell
has
what
is
the?
What,
if
any
exploratory
work
has
been
done
to
kind
of
figure
out
the
feasibility
of
expanding
cromwell
or
the
cost
efficiency
of
it?.
J
Thanks
for
the
question,
mr
calgary,
we
we
didn't
go
visit
the
site
and
conduct
a
feasibility
study.
It's
premature
at
this
point,
however,
we
consulted
with
staff
familiar
with
the
site
and
stakeholders
familiar
with
the
site
as
well,
as
you
know,
did
our
googling
to
see
what
how
the
site
could
accommodate
it.
Looked
at
gis
documents
for
the
topology
et
cetera
is.
It
appears
to
be
a
feasible
scenario
to
do
to
expand
it
at
that
sort
of
scale
that
we're
recommending.
G
J
O
R
O
Years
and
years
ago,
it
would
be
in
this
situation
we're
in
right
now,
so
I'm
very
impressed
by
the
level
of
detail
you
went
into
especially
looking
at
how
it
can
be
equitable
across
the
whole
county
and
not
just
focusing
on
certain
areas.
So
very.
C
A
O
A
O
S
Oh
yes,
can
you
hear
me
now
yeah?
Okay,
thank
you.
Thanks
for
the
question,
mr
warren,
the
state
will
look
at
a
major
project.
The
school
which
is
submitted
but
they'll
also
look
at
adjacent
schools.
So,
if
you're
submitting
for
a
project
for
capacity
to
expand
the
capacity
of
an
existing
school
they'll,
look
at
the
adjacent
schools
and
if
there
is
capacity
in
those
schools,
state
funding
will
be
reduced
or
it
might
not
be
given
at
all.
S
That
goes
back
to
that
question
that
was
asked
earlier
about
redistricting,
so
that
issue
about
redistricting
can
affect
the
whole
goal
of
trying
to
maximize
state
funding
state
funding
for
renovation
if
it
depends
partly
on
the
age
of
the
facility.
If
the
facility
is
40
years
old,
then
the
only
difference
will
be
in
the
allocation
for
the
site
work
for
renovation.
It's
five
percent
of
construction
for
new
construction,
that's
19!
So
you
will
see
that
differential.
S
Assuming
that
you
would
get
full
funding
for
a
new
facility
and
then
when
it
comes
to
very
small
projects
which
are
based
really
on
kind
of
scoping
studies,
the
kind
that
paul
was
mentioning
earlier
generally,
the
state
would
fund
based
on
the
estimated
cost,
and
that
would
be
true
for
say,
an
individual
project
like
a
roof
replacement,
a
boiler
replacement.
S
S
Does
that
help
to
answer
the
question
or
other
questions
about
how
the
state
might
fund?
There
are
certain
nations
that
are
coming
up
and
I
don't
want
to
get
into
something
we
don't
really
know
too
much
about,
which
is
how
the
state
intends
to
prioritize
its
funding.
O
Well,
I
I
I
again,
I
just
want
to
say
this
is
one
of
the
best
presentations
I've
been
on
the
planning
board
for
over
four
or
over
eight
years.
It's
really
great.
I
guess
my
last
question,
one
of
the
things
that
bothered
me
the
most
when
we
when
we
met
before
was
the
sparrows
point.
School
meeting
was
number
one
on
the
list
of
beads
and
we
were
looking
at
doing
schools
that
were
number
six
on
the
list
of
needs.
R
O
Timing
of
this
so
like,
like
you
know,
how
does
this-
and
I
know
you
talked
a
little
bit
about
that,
but
how
did
you
know
we
talked
about
this
refresh
15-year
window?
How
do
we
like
how
we
timing
out
these
needs,
or
do
we
tourists?
I
can't
say
the
word:
are
we
putting
the
schools
first
that
need
to
have
the
greatest
need
from
a
timing
standpoint.
J
J
First,
however,
with
the
different
categories,
are
structured
in
a
way
and
we're
scheduling
those
in
a
way
that
addresses
what
we
professionally
recommend,
as
well
as
what
we're
hearing
from
the
community,
such
as
capacity,
is
way
up
towards
the
top
of
needs,
we're
putting
those
projects
towards
the
front
end
of
this
horizon
as
quickly
as
we
can
get
to
them,
while
addressing
your
legacy
projects
as
well,
so
that
we
can
catch
up
with
that
crowding,
that's
happening,
and
some
of
those
educational
strategy
ones
have
certain
timing,
aspects
to
them
and
sequence
of
when
they
need
to
happen.
J
You
mentioned
sparrow's
point
depending
on
which
outcome
or
which
preferred
option
just
move
forward.
There's.
Definitely
a
domino
effect
of
you've
got
to
do
x
before
y,
before
z
and
the
sequence
of
time
and
such
that
we
need
to
start
on
those
on
an
earlier
basis.
S
B
T
N
U
U
So
you
know,
I'm
just
very,
very
impressed
that
you
have
considered
the
needs
of
those
students
to
help
them
be
able
to
compete
on
more
even
footing
with
students
who
have
a
stable
home
environment.
T
Yes,
ma'am,
mr
mills.
Thank
you
so
much
for
your
presentation.
I
have
a
just
a
quick
question.
I'm
new
to
the
planning
board,
but
how?
How
many
years
ago
was
a
study
like
this
done,
and
my
second
question
would
be:
is
this
your
projections?
I
guess
contingent
upon
the
same
administration
or
the
same?
T
J
Fantastic
question:
one
of
my
favorite
subjects:
actually,
when
we
do
these
plans,
we
do
with
our
best
foot
forward,
and
we
know
that
it's
probably
going
to
be
a
refresh
of
it
and
look
at
the
enrollment
projections
in
five
years
or
so
and
make
sure
that
what
we
recommended
back
in
2021
still
holds
true
at
that
point
in
time.
So
this
is
kind
of
a
living
breathing
structured
document.
We've
we've
provided
the
county,
a
lot
of
tools
that
could
make
the
next
process
a
little
easier
and
quicker.
J
With
all
the
facility
assessment
data,
that's
provided
out
there,
we
have
an
inventory
of
facilities
like
the
county's
never
had
before,
as
well
as
some
planning
structures
for
how
we
looked
at
capacity
looked
at
equity
and
the
adequacy
of
the
facilities
in
the
way
that
can
be
replicated
rather
quickly
without
having
to
go
to
the
full
investment
that
you
had
to
make
with
this
process.
Here.
J
I
B
B
If
not,
mr
mills,
thank
you
very
very
much,
mr
lever.
We
appreciate
you
both
taking
the
time
this
evening.
It
was
extremely
enlightening
and
then
we
will
move
on
now.
Next,
on
our
agenda.
F
A
lot
of
it
is
resource
based,
not
just
the
physical
facilities
so
to
miss
wolfson's
comment
about
these
additional
elements
that
make
up
community
schools.
It's
again
one
of
those
factors
that
is
we're
not
only
developing
the
master
plan,
but
looking
at
community
plans
going
forward,
the
schools
are
going
to
continue
to
play
a
critical
role.
So
having
this
amount
of
information
available
to
you
as
planning
board,
members
and
decision
makers
is
going
to
be
increasingly
important
for
the
work
that
we're
doing
so.
F
That's
why
we're
willing
to
take
that
much
time
and
I'm
the
questions
have
been
terrific
and
I'm
surely
glad
that
everybody's
been
so
engaged.
So.
Thank
you,
madam
chair.
B
Thank
you,
mr
lafferty,
for
your
comments.
That
was
a
great
ending
for
that
discussion.
B
N
Thank
you
and
good
evening,
madam
chair,
bear
with
me
one
second,
okay,.
N
Townhouse
development
in
baltimore
county
is
permissible
within
the
urtle
and
growth
chair,
one
which
is
served
by
public
water
and
sewer.
The
map
that's
showing
on
the
slide
in
the
yellow
is
all
the
area
that
resides
within
the
hurdle
and
growth
tier.
One
generally
townhouses
are
developable
by
right
in
the
10-5
and
dr-105
and
16
zones.
N
N
It
also
must
meet
the
requirements
found
in
master
plan,
2020
the
comprehensive
manual
development
policies
or
cmdp,
the
baltimore
county
landscape
manual
and
applicable
community
plants.
N
N
N
Numbers
and
price
points
given
by
mbaa
and
reflected
in
their
analysis
might
not
be
entirely
accurate.
Home
prices
that
were
listed
for
specific
developments
that
mbia
provided
as
examples
in
and
around
baltimore
county
differed
from
the
information
provided
on
the
websites
advertised
advertising
these
homes
for
sale.
N
The
cost
differential
was
advertised
at
a
higher
rate
than
stated
by
mbia.
Mbia
was
asked
to
provide
comparative
price
points
in
jurisdictions
where
16
foot
wide
town
homes
are
permitted
and
cost
of
construction
per
square
foot.
But
this
was
not
provided
to
the
department
of
planning
the
cost
of
market
rate.
Housing
tends
to
fluctuate
and
in
the
present
economy,
housing
and
supply
and
demand
are
driving
home
prices
and
costs.
This
is
likely
to
change
in
the
coming
years.
N
N
By
establishing
the
minimum
20
foot
width
for
townhouses
in
baltimore
county
and
the
cmdp,
the
county
was
clear
in
its
intent
to
build
homes
to
address
the
minimum
needs
of
residents
who
desire
to
live
in
a
single-family
home
with
reduced
maintenance
and
financial
obligations.
Different
from
that
of
a
single-family
detached
home.
N
A
N
N
N
N
The
department
would
recommend,
supporting
and
reduce
with
townhouse
as
a
conditional
use
with
the
following
conditions.
Those
would
be
a
development
over
reduced
width
units
may
not
be
granted
waivers
or
variances
for
building
height
and
setbacks,
requirements,
landscaping,
local
or
local,
open
space
requirements.
N
N
Townhouses
that
are
16
or
18
feet
wide
may
only
be
placed
on
interior
units
of
a
townhouse,
for
example,
and
along
the
interior
network
of
the
development.
Any
uni
units
identified
as
high
visibility
shall
be
20
feet
wide
or
above
reduced
with
townhouse.
Development
may
only
be
located
within
the
growth
chair,
one
designated
areas
of
the
county,
and
finally,
we
would
recommend
the
following
table,
showing
the
recommended
location
for
parking
for
each
townhouse
type.
N
B
Wait
paul.
V
Okay,
is
there
any
reason
that
the
pud
process
that
does
allow
16
and
18
foot
townhouses
is
there
any
reason
that
is
not
sufficient
seems
like
people
can
get
that
if
they
want.
N
Correct
and
as
I
showed
in
our
made
in
one
statement,
we
did
an
analysis
of
all
the
puds
within
the
hurdle
within
the
last
10
years.
Was
a
10
and
only
three
of
the
14
that
we
found
took
advantage
of
the
reduced
width.
V
So
it
doesn't
seem
to
be
widely
in
demand.
H
E
My
concern
is
more
about
housing,
affordability
and
I
heard
your
comments,
but
if,
if
you
don't
change
the
density
of
building
on
the
reduced
land
that
we
have
left
it,
I'm
a
economist
by
nature,
I'm
a
banker
so
supply
and
demand
is
going
to
drive,
continue
to
drive
the
prices
of
housing
up
to
a
point
that
affordability
is,
is
going
to
be
unattainable,
so
you
know,
I
guess
my
question
is:
if
we're
going
to
allow
them
to
do
18,
foot,
wides,
you're,
saying
that
you
wouldn't
allow
them
to
have.
E
E
N
N
E
Yeah,
I
guess
I
I
I
appreciate
your
comment,
but
frankly
it
still
does
not
solve
the
problem
of
housing
affordability.
So
if,
if
you
don't
allow
them
to
build
more
houses,
then
there's
no
economic
benefit
to
having
the
18
over
20..
So
you
know,
so
I
guess
that
I
think
that's
underlying
difference
in
what
your
presentation
is.
If
I
can
get
10
more
houses
out
of
that
development,
that's
where
the
major
cost
savings
is
and
that's
where
you
have
increased
supply
and
that
would
drive
down
that
cost.
E
F
As
miss
nugent
pointed
out
when
they
looked
at
the
data
points
that
mbia
provided
and
compared
it
to
what
the
websites
were
for
those
particular
projects
or
developments,
excuse
me
there
was
no
necessarily
reduced
cost
now,
if
mbia
has
additional
data
that
they
can
present
at
the
public
hearing,
that
shows,
in
fact,
that
the
cost
would
be
reduced
and
therefore
more
affordable
to
more
people.
E
So
it's
the
counter
argument
to
that
that
how
do
you
prove
that,
like
it,
you
have
to
just
use
economics
and
say
that
if
there's
we,
my
here
is
I
don't
want
to
live
in
san
francisco.
I
don't
want
to
live
in
portland
where
people
that
make
100
000
a
year
have
to
live
in
a
mobile
home
because
they
can't
afford
to
live
there
and
we're
going
to
head
there.
If,
if
we
don't
increase
the
hurdle
to
build
more
houses,.
E
C
N
P
I
have
to
agree
with
mr
warren
about
his
most
important
thing
and
I
think
you've
all
heard
me
talk
about
affordability
in
the
county.
I
greatly
believe
in
it.
I
was
very
adamant
about
it
in
many
districts
as
we
did
our
zoning
process
last
year,
I
would
tell
you
miss
nugent.
I
think
you
intellectually,
your
report,
probably
you
know,
is
as
a
planning
department
would
come
up
with,
and
the
issues
and
the
comments
that
you
have,
I
do
believe
practically
you're
missing
a
lot
of
information.
P
P
I've
been
involved
in
townhouse
development
building
settlement,
whatever
for
the
last
40
years.
I've
seen
projects
in
harford
county
that
had
16
foot
out
of
400
houses,
300
of
them
were
16
foot
and
the
developer
and
builder
blew
through
those
houses
because
the
affordable
house
of
the
16-foot,
which
is
really
a
very
nice
house,
you
end
up
with
two
16-foot
master
bedrooms
instead
of
two
eight
by
eight
or
eight
by
ten
second
and
third
bedrooms
in
that
house,
it
was
very
well
received.
P
I've
seen
many
others
built
in
anne
arundel
county
prince
george's
county
as
well.
We
don't
we
haven't,
like
you
say
you
can
show
the
numbers.
We
only
have
three
projects
that
did
them.
I
did
the
towson
muse
project
and
I
would
tell
you
they're
very
well
received
you
said
the
price
of
those
homes
are
in
the
400
000
range.
P
I've
settled
three
in
the
last
three
months
at
over
550
000,
the
16-footers
will
bring
less
than
the
550s,
but
that
means
towson
where,
when
bizuto
designed
them
and
sold
them
and
build
them,
they
were
for
the
teachers
at
towson
state
university.
They
might
have
been
some
of
them
for
students
that
their
parents
might
have
helped
them,
but
it
was
again
an
affordable
house,
so
was
towson
muse.
P
If
you
look
at
howard
county
again,
townhouses
in
the
550
range
going
up
to
700
000
we're
not
there
yet
in
baltimore
county
at
those
prices,
but
we're
moving
there
and
that's.
My
concern
is
again
being
a
minority
county
that
over
50
percent
of
our
population
is
minority.
These
numbers
are
going
to
get
so
out
of
line
as
many
other
parts
of
our
state.
We
don't.
P
We
don't
even
want
to
talk
about
the
cost
of
townhouses
in
montgomery
county
or
in
alexandria
or
virginia
or
other
places
around
d.c,
because
they're
out
of
sight,
but
there
is
a
reason
to
build
16
versus
20..
There
was
a
project
in
owings
mills
queen
anne
many
many
years
ago.
I
was
a
salesman
during
law
school
at
that
time
and
they
built
different
ones
and
I
was
selling
against
them.
So
there
are
people
that
really
do
like
it.
Some
of
the
pictures,
you've
shown
of
towson
muse
are
very
well
built.
P
Houses
well
designed
well
constructed
the
mbia's
comments
to
you
to
allow
possibly
some
higher
fight
requirements
to
me
make
sense
because
then
you
can
no
different
than
we've
seen
in
the
city.
I'm
not
saying
we
need
to
approve
this,
but
you
know
people
that
have
built
decks
to
have
views
over
certain
areas.
P
You
know
we
might
not
build
along
the
chesapeake
bay
in
the
future,
but
if
you
built
back
from
the
bay
and
you
have
the
ability
to
put
a
you
know
a
rooftop
depth
going
as
they
do
in
the
inner
harbor,
you
might
have
people
that
love
to
to
buy
those
homes
500
feet
away
from
the
chesapeake
bay.
You
know,
I
think
that
you
know
there's
much
that
the
mbia
projects.
I
think,
if
you
really
do
look
at
the
question
of
affordability
and
what
housing
is
going
to
cost
for
our
children.
P
You
know
that's
a
problem,
but
I
don't
really
want
them
having
being
forced
to
move
an
hour
or
an
hour
and
a
half
away
again.
I
read
your
report
very
carefully.
I
understand
that
I
believe,
but
I
do
look
at
the
practical
side
of
it
and
see
what
people
are
paying
for
housing,
and
I
understand
that
what
they're
going
to
do-
and
they
are
doing,
is
those
that
can't
afford
a
three
four
five
hundred
thousand
dollar
townhouse.
P
Where
are
they
moving
and
it's
a
good
thing
are
moving
back
to
the
city
and
buying
hundred
and
fifty
thousand
and
two
hundred
thousand
dollar
rehab
houses
at
that
point,
do
they
have
the
problems
that
we
all
talk
about
in
the
city
which
are
crime,
education,
those
things
absolutely,
but
those
are
the
decisions
that
they're
making
because
of
the
affordability
part
of
it.
That's
my
comments.
N
I
appreciate
your
comments,
mr
polo,
and
I
certainly
understand
them,
and
I
I
personally
from
a
personal
standpoint,
you
know
appreciate
having
a
house
be
affordable
because
I'm
a
single
working
mother
and
but
I
our
our
department's
recommendation
on
doing
this
study-
was
to
not
say
they
shouldn't
be
allowed,
and
I
think
mbia's
request
of
affordability
is
different
from
the
consent
decree
they're
trying
to
make
it
affordable
from
a
market
rate.
P
B
B
L
I
like
to
respond
to
warren
and
howard's
remarks.
I
I
think
that
the
last
30
years
people
have
been
in
a
free
society,
have
been
responding
to
increased
costs
by
moving
to
areas
where
they
can
afford
it.
That's
why
they're
moving
to
adams,
county
york,
county
and
other
areas,
anybody
who
drives
on
83
any
evening
can
see
what
the
results
of
that
are,
when
you
just
add,
more
housing
units
or
more
residential
unions,
you're,
adding
costs
to
the
existing
people
who
are
living
in
the
county
through
infrastructure
through
schools
through
additional
costs.
L
So
it's
not
a
one-size-fits-all
type
of
thing,
but
people
that
are
haven't
have
been
and
are
moving
to
areas
where
they
can't
afford.
E
They
so
they
drive
up
our
roads,
they
take
our
incomes
from
our
area
and
take
and
go
and
spend
them
in
their
communities
that
are,
we
don't
get
any
benefit
from.
So
I
that
that's
that's
a
not
the
right
attitude
to
have
around
that
that
we
want
to
have
a
vibrant
business
community
and
support
the
businesses
in
our
community.
We
want
people
to
live
here
and
thrive
here.
E
E
R
N
P
I'm
sorry
nance,
I'm
going
to
make
one
more
comment.
You
know,
I
would
tell
you
that
of
all
the
developments
that
have
16
footers
generally,
the
n
units
are
all
built
as
20-footers
they're
the
end
units.
The
prices
are
generally
higher.
You
know
there
sometimes
is
mix
in
the
units,
as
towson
muse
were
that
there
were
16
20,
then
a
16
and
a
20.,
so
they
were
mixed
up.
P
You
know,
I
don't
think
you're
going
to
see
any
developer,
that's
going
to
propose
an
entire
and
based
on
your
comments,
I
think
that's
a
very
good
mediation
idea
to
have
both.
You
know
if
you're
going
to
allow
16
footers
that
you
also
are
going
to
have
20s
it's
no
different
than
when
you
build
a
20-foot
development
and
you
take
the
engine
you
make
them
24
and
they
make
that
an
upscale
unit.
B
U
Yes,
please
jen,
so
I
have
one
comment
which
is:
that
could
be
the
difference
between
a
townhouse
and
the
look
of
a
row
house
and
the
other
question
is:
do
you
would
if
the
16,
if
there
were
16
feet
wide,
would
they
still
adhere
to
the
six
in
a
row
standard
currently
in
place,
or
would
that
number
in
a
row
expand.
N
F
Yeah,
I
thought
it
was
actually,
whichever
was
more
so
that
if
it
were
six
by
16
would
be
96,
so
you
could
get
a
seventh
unit
in
to
that
row
as
opposed
to
with
20
feet
you're
at
six
units
per
group.
S
B
Thank
you,
okay
board
members.
If
there
aren't
any
other
questions,
we
are
going
to
call
a
public
set
of
motion
for
a
public
hearing,
so
there
will
be
further
discussion
on
this
matter.
C
B
B
Master
plan
conflict
following
ms
nugent's
presentation:
council
will
pres
represent
the
developer
and
protest
protestants
and
people's
council
and
members
of
the
public
will
have
an
opportunity
to
speak.
Please
join
me
in
welcoming
ms
nugent,
I'm
pitching
a
double
header
today.
I
know
you
are
okay.
N
Thank
you,
I'm
here
to
talk
about
what
was
identified
in
the
alj's
opinion
and
order
on
the
davis
farm
development
plan.
After
the
hearing
had
concluded
as
a
master
plan,
conflict.
N
Procedurally,
a
development
plan
is
supposed
to
be
referred
to
the
planning
board
by
the
administrative
law
judged
when
it
is
deemed
at
the
development
plan.
Hearing
that
the
plan
conflicts
with
the
master
plan.
In
this
instance,
the
conflict
was
identified
by
the
alj
in
his
order.
After
the
hearing
had
concluded
that
the
development
plan
was
in
conflict
with
the
master
plan,
2020
land
use,
transect
designation
and
therefore
denied
approval
of
the
development
plan.
N
N
The
community
input
meeting
was
held
on
february
27
2019
and
a
development
plan
was
submitted
to
the
county
agencies
in
january
2020,
which
is
within
the
code
requirement
of
filing
the
development
plan
within
one
year
of
the
date
of
the
community
input
meeting.
As
cited
in
baltimore
county
code,
section
324-221.
N
The
development
site
is
21.17
acres
and
the
the
zoning
breakdown
is
12.17.
Acres
is
dr1,
2.95
acres
is
dr2,
0.99
acres
of
dr35
4.94
acres
of
rc5
and
a
sliver
of
rc-8
at
0.12
acres.
All
the
proposed
development
for
the
site.
It
was
located
within
the
dr1,
2
and
3.5
zone
portions
of
the
property,
and
also
proposed
to
only
use
the
density
from
the
dr
zones
for
the
development,
the
portion
at
the
rear
of
the
site
zone.
The
rc5
was
wooded
and
was
proposed
to
remain
wooded.
N
In
developing
the
master
plan
2020,
the
proposed
land
use
map
was
reformatted
from
specific
land
uses
to
a
transect
model.
The
purpose
of
this
reframing
of
the
proposed
land
use
map
was
to
strengthen
the
concept
which
guides
land
use
decisions
in
a
general
manner,
rather
than
for
specific
properties
in
a
fashion
similar
to
the
master
plan.
2010
texts
from
the
master
plan
2020
framed
how
the
proposed
land
use
map
should
be
utilized,
quoting
specifically
from
page
27
master
plan
2020.
N
N
N
The
slide
that
we
have
here
shows
the
master
plan
2020
transact
designations
for
the
site
as
being
the
pale
yellow,
t3,
suburban
and
the
light
green
as
the
t2r
rural
residential,
the
t2r
rural
residential
zone
is
important
to
note.
That
is
a
royal
residential
that
it
allows
residential
development.
It
consists
of
large
lat,
single-family
detached
housing.
N
N
N
N
N
The
transact
designation
of
t3
for
this
property
is
appropriate
as
the
general
character
description
from
master
plan.
2020
states.
That
areas
should
be
comprised
of
quote
lawns
and
landscaped
yards
surrounding
detached
single-family
houses
with
variable
front
and
side
yard
setbacks,
as
you
can
see,
from
the
multiple
layers
of
master
plan
designations,
the
tc
t3
transect
and
the
dr
zoning,
the
dr1
2
and
3.5
on
this
site
support
one
another.
N
The
t2r
transect
on
this
site
does
not
in
itself
create
a
master
plan
conflict
as
no
development
is
proposed
on
that
portion
of
the
site
and
it
uses
no
density
from
that
portion
of
the
site.
At
the
time
the
master
plan
2020
was
adopted.
A
majority
of
the
zoning
for
the
proposed
development
proposal
was
dr.
N
N
In
conclusion,
the
department
of
planning
recommends
to
the
baltimore
county
planning
board
that
the
davis
farm
development
proposal
does
not
present
a
master
plan
conflict
and
that
the
planning
board
approved
the
single
family.
Deep
hatch
development
plan,
with
the
master
plan,
2020
t2r
transect
designation
on
the
proposed
land
use
map.
B
E
N
So
what
occurred
after
the
development
hearing
before
the
alj
had
concluded
and
the
alj
had
to
write
his
order,
he
denied
the
development
plan
in
his
order,
citing
a
master
plan
conflict.
N
So
that
is
not
how
it's
written
in
the
code
that
that's
supposed
to
process
a
master
plan
conflict
is
supposed
to
be
raised
throughout
the
development
plan
process
before
the
development
plan
process
concludes,
and
so,
therefore,
a
motion
was
filed
by
the
development
applicant
on
that
decision.
It
went
to
the
board
of
appeals.
E
F
If,
if
I
may,
madam
chair,
as
as
ms
nugent
just
said,
mr
warren,
under
the
county
code,
the
administrative
law
judge
referred
this
to
the
planning
board
to
determine
whether
or
not
there's
a
master
plan
conflict.
F
F
I
also
want
to
thank
the
council
that
are
participating
tonight,
because
each
of
them
have
agreed
to
to
agreed
sort
of
time
limit
so
that
each
gets
a
fair
opportunity
to
make
their
presentation,
but
also
in
recognition
of
the
the
time
constraints
for
the
planning
board.
F
And
as
the
chair
will
say,
each
of
you
then
will
have
a
chance
to
make
to
question
not
only
them
but
the
members
of
the
public
who
are
here
to
speak,
but
we're
following
the
code,
mr
warren,
to
try
and
make
sure
we
live
up
to
our
obligation.
B
Yes
well,
thank
you
all
right.
Thank
you.
Thank
you,
mr
warren.
All
right
right
now
we're
going
to
hear
from
the
council
council.
Please
limit
your
time
to
at
least
20
minutes
or
less
I'm
we're
going
to
hear
from
mr
howard,
alterman
counsel
for
the
developer.
Please
join
me
in
welcoming
mr
alderman.
W
J
W
F
W
That
never
happened.
Master
plan
conflict
was
never
discussed
not
at
the
concept
plan
stage,
not
the
development
plan
stage,
not
at
the
hearing
officer's
hearing
this
development,
as
you
heard
ms
nugent
say,
is
very
low
density,
the
development's
all
on
the
dr1
dr2
and
dr
3.5
19
houses
less
than
what
is
permitted
by
the
zoning.
Now,
I'm.
W
W
W
W
W
W
If
judge
mayhew
had
testimony
or
evidence
of
a
master
plan
conflict,
the
law
required
him
to
continue
the
hearing
and
refer
the
development
plan
to
this
board.
That
action
wasn't
taken
as
there
is
no
conflict,
single-family
detached
homes,
surrounded
by
yard,
space
of
varying
widths.
It
fits
the
t3
transect,
even
though
the
transect
is
not
supposed
to
be
applied
to
any
individual
particular
property
by
the
strict
terms
of
the
master
plan.
W
S
F
B
W
Pros
the
proposed
zoning
permits,
21,
lots
and
19
are
proposed,
I'm
going
to
summarize,
given
the
lateness
of
the
hour.
All
development
is
within
the
dr
zone.
W
Throughout
the
development
process,
no
county
agency
referenced
any
conflict
with
the
master
plan.
When
reviewing
the
2020
manager
plan
to
the
development
plan.
No
conflicts
are
apparent.
The
master
plan
proposes
land
management
areas
that
organize
the
county
into
general
policy
areas
such
as
urban
and
rural
areas,
and
recommends
the
use
of
transect-based
planning.
W
The
master
plan
states
that
the
land
use
map
showing
transat
transects
excuse
me
is
conceptual
in
general,
is
intended
to
reflect
land
use
patterns
rather
than
identify
land
use
of
individual
properties
or
parcel.
As
you
heard
ms
nugent
say
there
is
there
are
both
t2r,
tr3
or
t3.
All
of
the
development
is
in
the
t3
in
the
t3.
It
shows
low
density,
residential
areas
adjacent
to
higher
zones
that
contain
mixed
use.
That's
the
suburban
zone,
home
occupations
and
outbuildings
may
be
allowed,
landscaping
is
naturalistic
and
setbacks
are
generally
deep.
W
The
19
lots
are
designed
meeting
all
zoning
setbacks.
No
variances
were
requested,
the
site
meets
all
storm
water
management
and
environmental
requirements
comfortably
on
site.
The
layout
provides
open
space
and
connection
to
the
adjoining
park
properties,
you'll
note
to
the
south
and
to
the
west.
It's
all
public
park
property.
W
Moreover,
the
proposed
public
road-
this
is
on
maple
avenue,
which
runs
north
and
south
from
its
intersection
with
frederick
road.
All
students
living
on
maple
avenue
have
to
walk
up
to
frederick
road
to
catch
the
bus,
because
the
bus
has
no
place
to
turn
around
davis
farms.
Road,
which
is
part
of
this
development
is
a
loop
road.
W
The
plan
has
been
processed
through
the
review
and
approval
process
and
mr
paranuzi,
where
he
to
be
where
he
testified
tonight,
said
he
would
agree
with
the
recommendations
of
the
department
of
planning
that
the
davis
farm
development
plan
proposal
does
not
in
any
way
present
a
master
plan
conflict
so
not
to
put
words
in
his
mouth
but
I'll
end
it
there,
and
I
thank
you,
members
of
the
board
for
your
the
opportunity
to
present
this
and
I'll
answer.
Any
questions
that
any
of
you
may
have.
B
K
Good
evening,
everyone,
thank
you,
mr
chairman.
What
would
I
have
the
ability
to
share?
I
may
have
a
couple
exhibits
that
I
may
show
the
board
to
transfer
that
to
me.
K
As
the
chairwoman
just
indicated,
I
represent
the
folks
on
maple
avenue
and
I
want
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
the
neighborhood,
because
we
haven't
heard
that
much
about
it,
because
when
we
get
to
the
master
plan,
conflict
discussion
which
I
will
get
to
it
is
clear
from
the
master
plan
that
you
do
have
to
take
into
consideration,
not
just
propos
what
the
proposed
development
is,
but
also
its
impacts
on.
K
What's
there,
and
I
mean,
let
me
tell
you
a
little
bit
about
what's
there,
so
this
neighborhood
is
not
a
planned
subdivision.
It's
it's
a
neighborhood
that
has
grown
organically
over
the
years.
There
are
a
lot
of
old
homes
with
a
lot
of
people
that
have
lived
there
for
a
very
long
time.
The
40
homes
that
line
maple
avenue
form
a
very
small.
If
you
ever
drive
down
that
road
ever
get
a
chance
to.
K
It
would
be
unusual
if
you
did,
but
they
form
a
small,
very
intact
bucolic
neighborhood,
with
mature
trees
and
mature
houses,
maple
avenue
itself
dead
end.
It's
only
0.4
miles
long
and
it
dead
ends.
Next,
at
patapsco
state
park
and
you'll
I'll
talk
a
little
bit
about
the
natural
resources
associated
with
this
site
and
how
they're
an
extension
of
the
park,
but
the
road
itself
is
very
narrow
near
the
site.
It's
only
15
and
a
half
feet
wide.
There's
no
sidewalks
many
of
the
homes
don't
have
driveways.
K
So
you
often
see
cars
parked
in
the
road
or
cars
turning
around
sometimes
on
private
property
to
even
get
out
of
the
neighborhood.
In
fact,
as
mr
ottoman
referred
to,
because
the
road
is
so
narrow,
school
buses
don't
go
down
the
road,
so
the
30
or
so
kids
that
attend
school
have.
You
know,
walk
down
maple
avenue
to
its
intersection
with
frederick
road
to
get
to
the
school
bus.
K
There
is
a
lot
of
foot
and
book
and
bike
traffic
on
this
road,
both
from
the
folks
that
live
there
who
walk
jog,
walk
the
dogs
there
from
the
kids
who
live
there,
who
you
know
play
with
their
friends
in
the
road,
but
also
non-residents,
because
it
is
an
access
to
patapsco
state
park.
You'll,
see
mountain
bikers
riding
down
the
road
to
access
the
park.
So
there's
a
lot
going.
C
K
K
Hopefully,
you
can
see
this.
These
are
my
clients
standing
in
the
road
you'll
see
the
narrow
width
of
it,
barely
enough
for
two
cars
to
go
by,
certainly
not
enough
for
two
cars
and
construction
vehicles
and
things
of
that
sort
to
pass
by.
So
you
should
also
know.
I
mentioned
that
I
represent
the
folks
on
this
road.
We,
during
the
course
of
the
hearing
we
introduced
the
petition
that
was
signed
by
150
people
opposing
this
development,
for
lots
of
reasons
which
we'll
get
to
with
one
or
two
exceptions.
K
Every
single
house
or
40
houses
on
this
in
this
neighborhood
express
their
opposition
on
to
the
development
and
concern
about
its
impacts.
K
K
They'll
speak
to
you
about
as
you'll
see
about
storm
water
management
issues
that
they've
been
having
since
they've
been
living
there
about
failing
septic
systems
about
traffic
concerns
about
impacts
on
environmental
resources.
But
let
me
turn
if
I
could
now
to
the
master.
Specific
master
plan
conflicts
that
we
believe
the
alj
was
correct
about.
K
Even
though
the
process
may
not
have
been
appropriate,
but
he
was
spot
on
in
our
opinion
about
the
conflict,
so
let
me
just-
I
have
a
handout
that
I'll
submit
to
the
board
after
the
hearing
and
I'm
not
going
to
read,
read
to
the
board.
I'm
just
going
to
highlight
a
couple
things,
and
the
first
point
I
wanted
to
make
was,
as
I
said
before,
one
of
the
things
that
the
master
plan
does
and
maybe
is
not
recognized
all
the
time
is.
K
It
speaks
quite
a
bit
about
preservation
of
existing
communities
and
protecting
against
impacts
to
those
communities,
as
opposed
to
simply
what
whether
or
not
a
proposed
development
should
or
should
not
be
in
a
specific
location.
So
in
this
handout
that
I'll
give
to
the
board
it
speaks
about
those
types
of
things.
In
fact,
it
says
many
existing
stable
residential
neighborhoods
should
not
be
disturbed
for
additional
development
things
of
that
sort.
K
There
are
also
provisions
dealing
with
infrastructure
in
the
master
plan
which
I'll
I
won't
get
into
in
any
detail,
but
we
have
serious
serious
problems
with
some
of
the
infrastructure
associated
with
this
neighborhood
you'll
see
photographs
from
my
clients,
with
the
significant
funding
on
this
road
on
a
regular
basis
during
rainstorms.
You
also
hear
stories
about
septic
systems,
I'm
not
sorry
the
sewer
system
failing
and
then,
of
course,
protection
of
natural
resources.
I
wanted
to
look
back
at
the
site
plan.
I
know
mr
alderman
referred
to
it
quickly.
K
I
wanted
to
show
the
board
just
how
significant
the
resources
are
on
this
property.
You'll
see
I've
outlined
in
in
black
the
entire
site,
which
is
about
24
21
acres,
everything
beyond
the
green
you'll
see
that's
all
forest
buffer
force
conservation
areas,
the
yellow
depicts
a
flood
plain.
The
blue
depicts
stream
systems
that
go
through
the
property
and
the
pink
areas
are
areas
of
wetlands
and
so
the
site,
the
21
houses.
I'm
sorry,
the
19
houses
are
within
this
area
right
here
here,
which,
which
is
roughly
don't
hold
me
to
this
exact
number.
K
But
it's
roughly,
you
know
just
a
little
more
than
half
of
the
site,
so
approximately
10
acres
or
so
so
that
the
19
houses
they're
in
a
half
circle
here
are
all
sitting
on
roughly
half
of
the
site.
So
when
we
look
at
density
and
I'll
get
the
density
in
a
second,
we
have.
I
think
it's
important
to
consider
that
we're
not
fitting
19
houses
on
21
acres,
we're
fitting
19
houses
on
half
of
that.
K
Let
me
get
back
to
if
I
could,
the
the
handout,
the
two
main
things
parts
of
the
master
plan
that
I
wanted
to
focus
in
on
and
frankly,
neither
planning
office,
nor
mr
ottoman
really
discussed
them
at
all.
You
will
see
in
the
master
plan
for
a
t3
transect,
which
this
is
part.
This
is
in
the
t3
transect,
that
it
requires
low
density,
residential
areas
and
setbacks
that
are
relatively
deep.
With
respect
to
density.
K
I
just
mentioned
to
you
that
this
oh
I'll,
give
this
hand
out
to
you
that,
although
24
units
are
allowed
on
this
21
acres
and
19
are
proposed
five
less
than
that
are
allowed
we're
talking
about
a
much
smaller
area
in
terms
of
the
developable
area
of
the
property
and
in
terms
of
density
as
well.
We
have
40
homes
there.
Now,
adding
19
will
increase
the
density
by
40.
There
was
a
an
exhibit
introduced
below
that.
I
think
sort
of
tells
that
story
very,
very
vividly.
K
If
you
take
a
look
at
this
is
maple
avenue.
The
green
is
obviously
the
existing
houses,
the
red
are
the
proposed
19
houses,
and
just
that's
just
in
my
mind.
That's
a
that's
a
good
visual
of
what
this
increase
in
density
will
look
like
real,
quick
getting
back
to
some
other
things
like
about
density.
I
looked
at
the
size
of
these
lots.
There's
19
of
them
the
lots
range
from
0.27
acres
to
0.63
acres,
so
the
average
is
about
0.41
acres,
most
of
them.
K
14
of
the
19
are
in
this
middle
range,
between
0.3
and
0.5.
That
is
not
low
density
in
our,
in
our
opinion,
the
existing
neighborhood
just
to
compare
there
are
a
couple.
There's
3.2
lots,
but
there
are
the
vast
majority
of
the
lots
are
well
above
that
and
the
largest
one
aside
from
the
subject.
Property
is
six
acres.
The
average
lot
size
is
of
the
existing
community
is
0.97
acres,
whereas
the
proposed
development
is
going
to
be
less
than
that.
K
So
double
the
density,
39
of
the
40
lots
are
larger
than
the
smallest
proposed
lot.
19
of
the
lots
of
the
from
the
existing
lots
are
larger
than
the
largest
proposed
lot
0.63
acres.
So
those
are
just
some
facts
about
density
that
I
speak
that
I
think
tell
the
story
that
this
is
not
low
density.
Certain,
certainly
in
comparison
to
what's
around
it
next
real
quick
about
setbacks,
the
master
plan
setbacks
are
relatively
deep
on
the
setbacks.
K
Provided
for
these
not
19
lots
are
the
minimum
required
in
the
zoning
regulations
25
feet.
That
is
not
a
deep
lot.
That's
what
the
code
requires.
The
regulations
require.
Rather
so
I
compared
that
to
the
existing
neighborhood
37
of
the
40
homes
have
a
setback
of
from
30
to
135
feet
so
again,
taking
into
consideration
what's
there
and
the
fact
that
the
proposed
lots
are
meeting
only
the
minimum
setback
as
opposed
to
anything
deeper.
We
believe
both
of
those
just
on
on
their
face.
K
Our
master
plan
conflicts,
real
quick,
the
tr
t
2r
transact
a
portion
of
the
property,
as
as
jennifer
mentioned,
is
in
the
t2r.
We
can't
ignore
it.
I
know
mr
alden
alderman
would
want
us
to
ignore
it,
but
take
if
you
take
a
look
at
these
four
provisions
in
the
master
plan
for
the
t2r,
I'm
not
even
going
to
discuss
them,
because
you'll
see
that
none
of
none
of
these
portions
of
the
master
plan
are
comply
with.
These
are
certainly
not
large
lots.
K
The
setbacks
aren't
greater
than
50
feet,
they're,
not
deep,
and
the
density
does
not
vary
between
2
and
5
8,
which
the
highest
density
as
I've
indicated
is
0.63
acres.
The
lot
size
that
is
those
are
the
master
plan,
conflicts.
K
The
last
thing
I
wanted
to
to
mention
is
this
concept,
and
you,
if
you
read
miss
newton's
report,
I
think
what
the
planning
office
did
in
this
instance
was,
and
it
says
it
explicitly
in
the
recommend
in
the
recommendation
that
the
transect
designation
is,
is
not
to
be
used
for
development
of
individual
lots,
but
rather
is
a
bigger
picture
for
for
planning
purposes,
and
if
you
look
closely
at
the
language
in
the
master
plan,
and
particularly
since
the
provisions
of
the
master
plan
are
mandatory,
contrary
to
what
a
lot
of
people
think
you
have
to
take
some
consideration
of
the
transects,
I
don't
think
even
mr
alderman
would
tell
you
that
you
ignored
that,
and
my
point
is
simply
if
you
take
them
into
consideration.
K
That
is
what
they
say,
whether
you're
talking
on
a
micro
or
macro
level.
I
think
it's
pretty
clear
that
these
conflicts
that
identified
exist-
and
I
haven't
seen
anything
from
the
planning
office
or
from
mr
alderman-
that
changes
those
conflicts.
K
And
with
that
I
will
let
my
folks
speak.
I
know
we
we're
going
to
limit
our
comments.
There's
quite
a
few
people
in
the
neighborhood.
Obviously,
but
I'm
going
to
ask
just
a
few
of
those
folks,
I
think
two
or
three
are
prepared
to
speak
to
you,
so
I'll
turn
it
over
to
them.
If
I
could
and
I'll
stop
sharing
at
this
point,
thank
you,
members
of
the
board,
I'm
happy
to
answer
any
questions
about
the
project
itself
or
about
the
master
plan.
B
P
I
don't
are
we
within
the
in
the
metropolitan
district
or
we're
not
yes,
yes,
okay,
both
were
in
both
areas.
Yes,
thank
you.
C
B
C
K
I've
mentioned
aside
from
the
specific
master
plan
conflicts,
but
the
concerns
of
my
clients
were
absolutely
mentored.
If
you're
asking
about
the
master
plan
conflict
itself,
that's
a
good
question.
I
do
this
stuff
day
in
and
day
out,
I'm
not
for
the
board
very
often,
but
I
do
this
stuff
more
than
anybody
else
does
in
terms
of
opposition
work
and
they're.
I
don't
know
why
it's
not
referred
more
often
to
the
planning
board
master
plan.
K
Conflicts
should
be
and
they
they
arise
more
often
than
we
than
we
family
think.
But
I
don't
really
have
a
reason
for
that,
sir,
and
it
wasn't
raised
my
clients
weren't.
I
should
mention
my
clients
were
not
represented
by
me
before
the
alj.
They
handled
it
themselves
once
the
alj's
decision
was
was
issued.
I
picked
up
the
case.
B
Q
You,
okay
and-
and
I
know
mr
mccann
has
some
citizens
as
well,
but
it's
great
to
be
here
even
with
howard
alderman,
who
have
a
lot
of
respect
for
michael
mccann
and,
of
course
you,
madam
chair
and
steve
lafferty.
I've
known
all
of
you,
it's
great
to
be
here
and
many
members
of
the
planning
board.
I
think
I've
interacted
with
in
the
past,
but
some
not
so
much
so
I
wanted
to.
I
will
give
a
little
perspective
answering
mr
warren's
question,
or
how
is
it
we're
here?
Q
But
first
I
wanted
to
give
a
little
background.
You
know
under
the
county
charter
we
have
both
a
master
plan
and
comprehensive
zoning
maps
and
they
are
quite
different.
As
you
know,
the
master
plan
gets
prepared
and
adopted
every
10
years.
The
comprehensive
zoning
is
in
zoning
regulations
every
four
years.
The
maps
are
reviewed.
Q
Our
office
does
not
represent
the
protestants
right.
Our
office
was
created
in
1974
as
a
public
interest
office
to
defend
the
comprehensive
zoning
maps,
and
there
was
a
lot
of
history
to
the
1970s
that
some
of
you
may
recall.
In
1978,
the
charter
section
524.1
was
amended
specifically
to
assign
us
to
defend
the
master
plan
in
the
public
interest.
Q
And
the
county
council,
under
the
legislation
that
was
mentioned
by
ms
nugent
in
the
code,
has
decided
that
not
only
there's
a
referral
to
the
master
to
the
planning
board
when
there's
a
master
plan
conflict
identified,
but
that
the
development
plans
have
to
comply
with
the
master
plan.
Okay,
it's
mandatory-
and
this
is
critical
to
understand
because
the
master
plan
is
is
advisory
on
comprehensive
zoning.
It's
not
advisory.
Q
Here
I
sent
the
letter
last
week
august
25th
the
seven
page
letter
to
chair
hafford.
Q
I
hope
she's
had
a
chance
to
share
it
with
you
and
that
I
know
you're
all
hard-working
board
members
with
lots
of
things
to
do,
but
I
hope
you
would
read
my
letter
and
I
attached
the
administrative
law
judge
opinion
I
attached
the
master
plan,
transects
and
other
information,
including
the
planning
office's
original
comment
on
this
development
plan
and
last
week
or
a
few
days
ago,
I
also
sent
to
steve
lafferty
and
chair
hafford,
the
landmark
court
of
appeals
case
on
baltimore
county
master
plan
and
development
plan,
which
I
think
is
critical,
and
this
is
a
case
that
came
out
of
kingsville
and
was
decided
after
many
years
of
litigation
in
2012
called
hns
development
versus
people's
counsel,
and
for
years
we
were
dealing
with
the
arguments
of
developers
and
sometimes
the
planning
office,
that
the
master
plan
is
not
really
intended
to
deal
with
specific
sites,
it's
kind
of
general,
it's
kind
of
advisory,
it's
it.
Q
It
doesn't
really
have
an
impact
on
a
particular
development
plan.
Okay-
and
you
can
read
the
case
beginning
the
most
important
parts
of
the
case-
begin
at
page
450
and
we
won
the
case
and
the
court
of
appeals
said
with
reference
to
a
very
specific
property
in
kingsville,
where
there
was
master
plan
issues
regarding
protecting
a
historic
mansion.
Q
The
court
said
it
is
mandatory
as
to
this
specific
site:
okay
and
judge
harrell,
and
I'm
just
going
to
read
a
couple
of
quotes
from
the
opinion,
and
we
had
won
the
case
also
at
the
court
of
special
appeals.
He
said
we
agree
with
the
court
of
special
appeals
reasoning.
When
the
development
regulations
incorporate
master
plan
compliance,
the
master
plan
itself
becomes
a
regulatory
device
rather
than
a
mere
guided
recommendation.
Q
Q
Okay
and
it's,
I
would
say
it's
on
a
par
with
the
ten
commandments
you
have
it
has.
There
has
to
be
compliance
and
the
transects
there's
nothing
in
the
master
plan
that
says
the
transects
are
some
kind
of
vague
thing
that
we
really
don't
have
to
worry
about
in
specific
cases.
Okay,
there's
a
very
nice
discussion
of
transects,
which
I
quoted
in
my
letter
and
they're
quite
specific
they're,
very
defined
categories
with
the
criteria
and
mr
mccann
has
given
you
the
the
criteria
on
this
transects
here.
Q
So
this
is
not
like
a
softball
situation
where
we
don't
have
to
worry
about
the
transects.
Now.
How
did
we
get
here
and-
and
I'm
gonna
comment
on
the
department
of
planning
reports
and
judge
mayhew's
opinion
and
how
we
got
here
and
then
comment
on
their
current
report
and
mr
warren
and
maybe
others
are
still
a
little
interested?
Q
How
did
we
get
here
and
why
not
sooner
what
what
happened
in
the
development
plan
process
as
we've
now
reviewed
it
in
the
usual
so-called
concept
plan
conference,
comment
that
the
planning
office
issues
department
issues
in
every
development
plan
case
the
planning
office
did
describe
the
t3
transect,
the
t2r
transect,
the
community
conservation
area.
It
was
right
in
the
record.
Q
Okay,
prior
to
the
hearing,
the
department
did
not
further
address
the
master
plan
when
they
got
to
the
hearing
and
page
three
of
the
the
opinion
you
can
read.
This
two
members
of
the
department
of
planning
testified
on
various
aspects,
including
their
final
report.
They
did
not
mention
the
master
plan,
but
the
master
plan
was
right.
The
comments
were
right
there
initially
as
to
what
the
transects
were.
Q
Q
So,
given
all
these
other
problems,
he
understandably
probably
felt
it
was
not
necessary
at
that
point
in
the
interest
of
efficiency
to
send
it
immediately
back
on
this
issue.
Since
there
were
so
many
other
issues,
the
board
of
appeals
on
appeal
took
a
different
point
of
view
and
said:
let's
look
at
let's
let
the
planning
board
look
at
this
issue
as
well,
so
when
this
case
eventually
gets
back
to
the
board
of
appeals
and
wherever
this
is
just
one
of
the
issues
in
the
case.
Q
Q
All
right
so
judge
mayhew's
comments
or
decision
on
the
master
plan
or
on
page
18
of
his
opinion,
okay,
and
he
basically
went
through
some
of
the
things
that
mr
mccann
pointed
out
and
the
core
of
his
opinion
on
page
18,
they're,
just
two
paragraphs,
here's
what
he
said
and
and
the
whole
opinion
I
sent
to
you
attached
to
my
letter
quote.
In
my
view,
the
development
plan
in
this
case
does
not
comply
with
the
master
plan.
Q
Vision
for
these
transects,
as
the
lot
area
table
on
the
plan
shows,
the
19
proposed
lots
range
from
0.27
to
0.63
acres,
with
the
majority
of
the
lots
falling
in
the
0.30
to
0.45
range
and
the
typical
lot
layout
on
the
plan
for
the
lots
in
the
dr1
and
dr2
zones
show
front
setbacks
as
little
as
25
feet,
side,
building
to
building
distances
of
as
little
as
30
feet
and
I'll
interject.
It's
side,
building
to
building
30
feet.
Q
That
means
set
side
set
back
15
feet
and
a
few
of
them
actually,
I
think,
are
10
feet
anyway.
He
says
quote:
this
is
how
19
4
to
5
bedroom
homes
are
squeezed
onto
the
buildable
portion
of
this
tract
quote:
okay,
the
fact
that
the
planning
office
department
previously
did
not
take
a
position
one
way
or
the
other
as
to
whether
there
was
a
conflict,
does
not
mean
that
the
judge
has
to
ignore
the
issue.
Q
Okay,
when
I,
when
the
case
came
to
my
attention,
it
didn't
take
me
long
to
100
percent
agree
with
with
judge
mayhew,
and
if
you
look
at
the
description
of
transects
on
pages
27
to
29
of
the
master
plan,
it's
quite
in-depth
and
it's
in
the
an
indication
that
they're
quite
specific
and
the
criteria
are
quite
specific
and
in
context.
I
would
suggest
you
that
that
these
relatively
modest
lots
in
the
context
of
this
neighborhood-
it's
not
low
density.
The
setbacks
are
certainly
not
deep.
Q
Q
Let
me
say
something
about
why
I
happen
to
disagree
as
respectfully
as
I
can
with
the
planning
department's
position
here,
and
I
think
the
core
of
it
is
on
page
three
of
their
report,
and
the
first
thing
they
say
is
that
the
departments
and
I'm
paraphrasing
the
department
supported
the
proposed
development
plan
without
raising
an
issue
of
conformity
with
the
master
plan.
2020..
Q
Well,
that's
a
nice
way
of
saying
saying
it,
but
what
happened
was
they
mentioned?
They
described
the
master
plan
transects
in
the
community
conservation
area
and
by
the
way
I
discussed
the
community
conservation
area
conflict
in
my
letter
because
they're
supposed
to
be
preservation
of
stability,
but
what
they
don't
say
in
their
current
report
is
they
simply
did
not
address
whether
or
not
there
was
a
conflict.
Q
They
didn't
take
a
position
in
writing
whether
that
means
that
it
implies
that
they're
they're
happy
with
it
maybe,
but
they
didn't
articulate
one
way
or
the
other
whether
there
was
or
was
not
a
conflict,
okay
in
the
next
paragraph
or
a
few
sentences
later-
and
this
is
the
key
I
think
they
and-
and
maybe
miss
nugent
repeated
this.
A
few
minutes
ago,
aft
quote
after
reviewing
the
master
plan.
2020
proposed
land
use
map,
the
urban
rural
demarcation
line
and
zoning
map
at
the
time
of
master
plan,
2020
adoption,
the
transect
designation.
Q
This
is
key.
I'm
quoting
the
transect
designation
for
the
development
proposal
site
was
mapped
to
run
coincident.
That's
a
key
word
coincident
with
the
zoning
classification
and
goes
on
a
a
sentence
or
two
later,
the
t3
transcript
and
the
dr
zoning
support
one
another
in
that
concept.
Okay
and
here's
what
I
would
say-
and
this
is
a
legal
point-
okay,
this
is
not
whether
you
like
the
development,
you
don't
like
the
development.
Q
Okay,
what
the
planning
office
really
is
saying
here
is
that
the
transects
don't
add
anything
to
the
zone,
that
as
long
as
you
comply
with
the
zoning
specifics,
you
don't
have
to
worry
about
the
transects
or
the
master
plan.
Okay,
basically,
the
tran,
the
master
plan
goes
out
the
window,
I'm
being
a
little
blunt
here
in
their
approach,
but
I
would
suggest
to
you
strongly
that
the
transects
are
meaningful.
Q
They
are
not
negatory,
they
are
different
from
the
zoning
requirements.
The
criteria
are
different,
they're
mapped
differently,
they're
described
differently.
It
wasn't
a
waste
of
time.
Okay,
when
the
people
who
worked
on
the
master
plan
2020,
which
I
assume
is
partly
the
planning
office
back
in
2010
when
they
went
into
this
depth
with
these
transects
okay,
they
have
consequences,
but
I
would
suggest
to
you
that
in
this
case,
the
position
of
the
department
is
that
the
transects
have
no
consequences
as
to
a
specific
property.
Q
Q
But
I
think
that
was
resolved
by
the
court
of
appeals
and
it's
an
issue
we've
been
struggling
with
for
years,
and
I
think
we're
right
about
that,
and-
and
I
kind
of
repeat
myself
that
I
you
know,
I
respect
all
the
work
the
planning
department
does
and
I've.
I
think
I've
said
a
number
of
times
to
the
director
that
supreme
court
justices
may
respectfully
disagree
on
different
issues.
Q
So
so
we
have
this
disagreement
on
this
particular
case
and
at
the
same
time,
I
have
tremendous
respect
for
the
department,
especially
director
lafferty,
who
I've
known
for
a
long
time,
and
I
think,
is
going
to
do
a
great
job
and
probably
already
doing
a
great
job,
but
I
I
happen
to
disagree
with
their
report
in
this
particular
situation,
and
I
think
this
is
an
important
case,
because
this
is
a
key
issue
as
to
you
know
which
one
it's
mr
zimmerman,
I'm
just
about
done.
You
know
this
is
a
key
case.
Q
To
kind
of
revisit
is
the
planning
is
the
master
plan
going
to
be
implemented
as
a
strong
document,
or
is
it
going
to
be
just
sort
of
in
effect,
put
aside
as
something
advisory
that
doesn't
have
to
be
complied
with,
and
I
would
also
I
have
to
say
that
I,
the
planning
office
report
does
not
specifically
respond
to
what
judge
mayhew
said
in
his
opinion.
Q
I
haven't
seen
anything
in
writing
to
specifically
contradict
what
he
said
and
I
elaborated
you
know
he
had
many
other
issues
to
deal
with.
We
have
just
the
master
plan
issue
here.
I
elaborated
on
the
low
density
and
the
setbacks
in
my
letter
to
you,
which,
as
I,
which
I
sent
last
week,
and
I
would
would
hope
that
you
all
have
the
time
to
take
a
look
at
the
writings
that
are
submitted
by
any
of
the
parties.
Q
And
mr.
Q
Q
B
B
B
First,
and
thank
you
so
much
for
your
patience,
christy
katz.
X
Hi,
thank
you.
My
name
is
christy
katz.
I
live
at
7
maple
avenue.
Thank
you
for
the
time
to
speak
today.
Certainly,
the
master
plan
was
created
to
help
guide.
Smart
land
use
decisions
in
our
area.
X
That
being
said,
this
development
is
literally
adjacent
to
a
targeted
environmental
area
which
is
identified
as
a
conservation
priority
by
the
maryland
department
of
natural
resources
on
a
street
prone
to
severe
flooding
and
storm
water
damage.
In
a
time
where
extreme
rainfall
events
are
not
rare
anymore,
we
really
doubt
that
the
100-year,
floodplain
and
other
antiquated
environmental
impact
measures
will
help
us
when
the
stream
has
already
been
overwhelmed
and
washed
out
by
flash
flooding.
X
Additionally,
we
are
more
than
concerned
about
our
quality
of
life,
putting
up
the
potential
years
of
ongoing
construction,
as
these
houses
are
built
one
by
one
as
a
narrow,
dead-end
road
with
heavy
pedestrian
traffic
and
no
sidewalks,
where
kids
walk
the
length
of
the
street
every
day.
In
the
road
to
get
to
the
bus
stop
sandwiched
in
between
two
near
failing
intersections,
we
are
sounding
the
alarm
that
this
is
a
huge
safety
risk
and
it's
not
just
kids,
our
retired
and
elderly
residents
walk
the
length
of
our
street
for
exercise.
X
While
most
of
us
would
love
new
neighbors,
we
know
that
there
is
no
safe
way
to
add
190
more
daily
vehicle
trips
on
this
particular
street
we've
seen
too
many
close
calls
too
many
accidents.
We've
experienced
devastating
flooding
to
our
homes.
We
are
the
epitome
of
the
existing,
stable
neighborhood
that
would
just
be
devastated
by
this
development.
X
I
don't
want
to
see
any
of
my
neighbors
seriously
injured
or
killed
before
someone
starts
listening.
The
safety
and
livelihood
of
our
residents
should
be
paramount,
and
this
plan
is
incompatible
with
the
existing
neighborhood
and
poses
a
very
real
threat
to
our
safety.
Thank
you
for
your
time.
Thank.
Y
Thank
you.
My
name
is
monica
simonson
and
I
live
at
17
maple
avenue.
Thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
provide
community
input
which,
as
has
been
said,
the
baltimore
county
master
plan.
Clearly
states
should
be
used
to
help
determine
both
where
and
how
land
development
will
occur.
Mr
alderman
has
mischaracterized
the
nature
of
the
community
input.
Y
I
have
documentation
of
emails
to
county
leadership
with
expressed
concerns
about
the
challenges
to
community
input
for
this
specific
project,
including
code
related
closures
and
delays,
a
lack
of
responsiveness
and
unreturned
emails
from
the
project
manager
and
the
fact
that
the
hearing
invitations
arrived
after
the
actual
hearing
date.
I'll
repeat
a
week
after
the
hearing
date,
I
received
my
invitation
due
to
postal
service
delays.
How
many
of
our
other
neighbors
had
the
same
thing
and
didn't
know
about
the
hearing
date?
Y
The
thought
of
the
bus
trying
to
actually
turn
out
of
that
intersection
is
a
little
ridiculous.
My
own
father
was
in
an
accident
when
he
attempted
to
turn
left
after
waiting
six
minutes
to
do
so
in
the
middle
of
the
afternoon.
Y
Mr
alderman's
appeal
also
specifically
challenged
the
notion
that
the
community
schools
cannot
absorb
a
new
neighborhood
full
of
school-aged
children.
However
catonsville
high
school,
for
example,
currently
at
1
750
students
is
already
at
103
capacity
and
projected
to
be
at
120
capacity.
When
mrs
katz's
children
go
there.
Those
agency
representatives
have
each
signed
off
on
a
plan
for
a
community
they
may
never
have
visited,
but
from
their
own
narrow
lens
within
the
scope
of
their
office
meets
some
minimum
metric.
Y
We
believe
that
it
is
the
role
of
our
elected
and
appointed
county
officials
to
look
at
the
larger
picture
and
connect
the
dots
between
those
silos
to
consider
the
global
impact
of
the
alignment
of
this
development
with
the
overall
baltimore
county
master
plan.
Lastly,
I'd
like
to
push
back
on
the
characterization
that
we
are
simply
resistant
to
change
or
intolerant
of
minor
inconveniences.
Y
Since
the
pandemic,
our
street
has
experienced
an
increase
in
foot
and
bike
traffic
as
people
access
the
state
park
in
record
numbers,
we
make
room
for
the
cars
parked
up
and
down
maple
avenue
all
summer
long
for
the
five
of
pool
goers
we've
seen
a
turnover
and
welcomed
many
new
families
with
young
children.
Change
is
a
part
of
life.
We
are,
however,
advocating
to
preserve
a
community
that's
safe
and
healthy
for
years
to
come.
B
Z
Thank
you,
madam
chair
and
board
members,
I'm
albert
cunniff.
I
live
at
10,
maple
avenue
and
I'm
certainly
not
an
expert
on
baltimore
county's
master
plan,
but
I
do
want
to
raise
what
I
think
is
a
relevant
point
regarding
the
letter
of
the
law
versus
the
spirit
of
the
law.
As
you
know,
physicians
have
the
hippocratic
oath
of
underlying
above
all,
do
no
harm.
I
would
argue.
Z
The
master
plan
must
have
a
similar
underlying
assumption,
leave
no
neighborhood
worse
off
after
development
and
if
we're
applying
a
transect
view
of
land
here
and
we're
saying
general
versus
specific,
that's
the
entire
point
being
missed.
Our
road
is,
unlike
any
other
in
this
area,
even
the
traffic
witness
that
the
developer
brought
in
couldn't
think
of
another
road.
When
we,
when
we
challenged
him,
maple
avenue
is
a
short
dead-end
street.
It's
only
2
200
feet
long.
Z
It
has
no
curbs,
no
sidewalks,
no
alternate
ways
in
or
out,
and
it
never
will
because
of
other
developments
and
forest.
It's
only
15
feet
across
at
its
narrowest
point,
as
you
see
in
that
picture.
Unless
mr
alderman
has
friends
on
the
school
board
and
the
traffic
committee's
there
there's
no
guarantee
the
school
board
would
even
send
a
bus
up
our
street.
They
decide
whether
to
do
that,
and
I
agree
with
monica
that
the
the
problem
of
getting
off
back
onto
frederick
road
would
possibly
make
them
say.
Z
No,
let's
leave
it
the
way
it
is
at
many
spots
on
our
street
now,
if
homeowners,
who
live
across
from
each
other
simply
park
in
front
of
their
own
house,
vehicles
can't
pass,
if
you
add
19
houses
to
this
scenario,
we're
going
to
have
over
40
percent
increase
in
housing
density
and
a
50
increase
in
traffic,
the
developer
estimated
conservatively.
I
think
it
would
be
200
vehicle
trips
per
day.
Z
I
don't
think
that
takes
into
account
the
current
amazon
world
of
multiple
deliveries,
because
this
developments
at
the
very
end
of
our
street,
every
single
vehicle
would
have
to
traverse
the
entire
length
of
our
road.
That's
not
a
good
safe
pattern
for
all
the
school
children,
joggers,
bicyclists,
pet
walkers
and
believe
me
they're.
Z
There
it's
it's
well
used
those
who
would
argue
that
19
houses
and
200
vehicle
trips
added
to
our
street
would
have
no
significant
effect
on
safety
or
traffic,
or
overlooking
the
fact
that
maple
avenue
will
not
be
widened
or
improved
after
this
development.
Mr
alderman
didn't
bring
that
up
either
other
than
a
short
span
at
the
end
of
the
street
directly
opposite.
The
development
maple
avenue
would
remain
only
15
feet
wide
at
certain
points
with
no
sidewalks
and
no
curves.
Z
It
would
be
exactly
the
same
and
by
the
way
two
accidents
have
occurred
at
the
intersection
of
maple
and
frederick
in
the
time
since
the
aljs
hearing
that
we're
now
discussing
so
in
closing
a
huge
percentage
increase
in
housing
and
traffic
on
a
short
den
and
road
is
that
right,
leaving
maple
avenue
in
these
circumstances
after
that,
development
surely
cannot
reflect
the
spirit
of
baltimore
county's
master
plan.
Please
keep
this
in
mind
when
you
consider
the
alj's
decision
and
thank
you
again,
madam
chair
and
the
board
members.
B
Thank
you,
mr
conniff,
right
now,
elaine
lehman
is
our
last
speaker
at
this
time.
B
B
AA
Thank
you
very
much,
madam
chair.
I'm
so
sorry,
thank
you.
Okay,
we're
dealing
with
three
points,
one
of
which
is
the
sewer
status,
and
it
was
mentioned
that
that
we
are
at
27
maple,
which
is
the
middle
of
maple
avenue.
We
are
the
last
ones
currently
on
sewer.
The
proposed
development
is
saying
that
they
were
going
to
put
a
sword
line
in
from
their
development
to
our
sore
toward
the
sore
end.
AA
The
county
has
assured
us
that
the
online
which
ends
in
our
house
has
the
capacity
to
handle
the
additional
volume,
even
though
it
is
a
terracotta
pipe
installed
in
1930,
we've
been
repeatedly
told
by
the
county
that
the
swordpipe
will
be
lying,
but
that
does
not
occur.
It
was
last
scoped
in
2007
in
2011
there
was
a
magnitude
5
earthquake
in
virginia,
which
resulted
in
seeking
shelter
and
closing
damage
to
our
home.
Could
this
shoreline
have
been
damaged?
AA
Well,
we
don't
know,
but
because
that,
because
of
the
sewer
line
status,
we've
had
to
clean
out
the
store
from
our
home
to
the
sewer
line
and
because
repeated
backups
haven't
had
to
put
in
check
valves
obvious
conclusion.
There
is
a
problem
already
with
the
sewer
line
that
exists
on
maple
avenue.
AA
We
don't
see
how
connecting
an
additional
19
homes,
plus
18
houses
that
currently
exist,
could
be
handled
and
speaking
of
those
18
houses
currently
exist,
and
when
their
septic
systems
fail,
they're
going
to
have
to
convert
to
a
sewer
which
will
cost
those
families,
some
of
whom
are
on
fixed
income
upwards
of
what
10
to
12
thousand
dollars,
because
I
also
have
to
get
a
grinder
pump.
This
is
very,
very,
very
difficult
and
and
reflecting
what
al
said
and
first
do
no
harm.
AA
In
addition,
we
want
to
mention
the
accidents
which
have
also
been
referenced.
The
section
of
frederick
road
that
maple
intersex
carries
the
combined
traffic
of
north
and
south
rolling
roads
according
to
the
public
works
traffic
rating
system
level
of
service
intersections,
frederick
road
and
rolling
road
south
in
february
of
2020
was
rated
in
f
level
of
service,
which
means
that
the
load
factor
was
already
at
86
to
100
percent.
AA
That
means
that
that
traffic
is
feeding
on
to
frederick
road
going
past
maple
avenue
the
level
of
f
service
intersection
would
have
a
moratorium
building
permits
where
one
actually
ruling
mode.
However,
it
doesn't
affect
us,
but
it
should,
because
we
are
receiving
all
that
traffic.
There
is
bumping
the
bumper
traffic
during
rush
hours,
which
affects
every
entry
and
exit
off
of
maple
avenue.
The
entertainment.
B
M
Yes,
madam
chair,
we
have
seven
comments
from
the
chat
box.
First,
we
have
miss
marjorie
wax.
She
stated
I'm
logged
on
in
support
of
the
opposition
to
the
development
on
the
end
of
maple
avenue
as
a
30-year
resident
of
catonsville.
There
have
been
several
developments
that
have
been
very
beneficial
to
our
community.
This,
however,
is
the
wrong
place.
The
street
is
too
narrow
the
turn
and
the
traffic
on
frederick
road
make
it
impossible
for
any
child
to
walk
to
school
and
difficult
to
even
drive.
M
Also,
the
development
would
have
a
very
negative
impact
on
the
river
and
patapsco's
and,
if
attached
to
patapsco
state
park,
I
apologize.
Second,
we
have
mr
ethan
dublo.
I
apologize
if
I
pronounce
that
wrong.
He
stated
I
object
to
the
davis
farms
property
because
of
the
traffic
issues,
and
it
is
not
consistent
with
the
master
plan,
as
identified
by
the
alj.
M
M
Next
we
had
michael
simison
simmonson.
He
stated
thank
you
for
considering
the
entirety
of
the
testimony
and
evidence
that
has
been
presented
to
date
on
this
issue.
The
bottom
line
is
that
there
is
just
too
many
houses
for
this
old
narrow
street
from
both
an
environmental
and
safety
perspective.
The
infrastructure
simply
doesn't
support
it.
M
You
have
already
heard
from
some
of
the
people
in
the
community
what
I
will
call
experts
of
maple
avenue.
Some
of
those
experts
have
lived
here
over
40
years
and
some
only
a
year
a
year
or
two,
but
they
all
are
all
expert
residents
of
the
street.
They
drive
down
the
street
as
they
commute
to
work.
They
walk
their
kids
down
the
street
to
the
bus.
Stop
they
see
how
the
street
floods
on
hard
brains
like
yesterday.
They
see
it
all
every
day,
because
this
is
the
place
they
call
home.
M
Next,
we
had
carrie
rozinski.
She
stated
my
name
is
kerry
rozinski.
I
live
in
104
maple
avenue
directly
next
to
the
land
where
the
development
is
supposed
to
be.
I
have
a
six
and
a
half
year
old
boy
and
a
ten
month
old
girl.
We
moved
here
for
the
school
district,
but
also
for
the
quality
of
living.
We
live
in
an
area
that
we
feel
is
safe,
provides
good
education
for
our
children
and
also
provides
a
quiet
place
for
our
children
to
enjoy
nature.
M
I
am
not
only
very
concerned
about
the
school
capacities
and
the
disruption
of
the
peace
we
choose
to
provide
for
our
children,
but
my
safety
concerns
are
indescribable.
The
amount
of
traffic
that
would
come
with
this
development
down
a
road
that
currently
does
not
allow
for
two
cars
to
pass
at
the
same
time
is
very.
Concerning
the
intersection
of
frederick
road
and
maple
avenue
is
already
difficult
to
get
through.
Adding
an
additional
100
card
trips
up
and
down
the
road
will
cause
such
a
bottleneck.
M
I
don't
know
how
we
would
ever
get
anywhere
on
time.
The
amount
of
construction
that
would
need
to
be
done
to
widen
the
road
would
be
incredibly
disruptive.
I
don't
know
how
we
would
be
able
to
continue
with
our
everyday
lives.
We
have
such
a
hard
time
getting
in
and
out
of
our
driveway
right
now
with
one
house
being
built
across
the
road
that
I
can't
even
fathom
this
project
of
this
magnitude.
M
All
I
wanted
when
I
moved
here,
was
a
quiet
place
where
my
children
could
play
in
the
dirt
and
get
a
good
education.
We
were
aware
that
there
was
a
plan
to
build
on
this
land,
but
we
did
not
know
that
the
proposed
development
would
destroy
the
quality
of
life
that
we
cherish.
Now,
please
hear
my
concerns
not
only
as
a
resident
of
maple
avenue,
but
as
a
mother
who
will
be
sharing
a
fence
with
this
development.
I
appreciate
your
time
next.
We
have
erin
hager.
She
stated
please
vote
against
this.
M
The
street
cannot
handle
a
new
development.
It
is
narrow
and
cannot
be
widened.
This
property
includes
a
stream
that
floods
flooded
during
the
ellicott
city
funds
and
causes
a
sinkhole
adjacent
to
the
property.
This
simply
doesn't
make
any
sense.
No
one
wants
this.
The
community
is
united
against
this
please
vote
now,
then
we
had
a
comment
from
maria
sajowski.
I
apologize
if
I
said
that
wrong.
She
stated.
I
live
at
one
dunton
avenue
across
from
nepal
for
35
years
over
the
years
there
have
been
numerous
accidents
at
this
corner.
M
Drivers
fly
down
frederick
road
at
35
to
50
miles
per
hour.
Adding
more
houses
and
drivers
at
this
intersection
is
very
dangerous.
Let
me
check
the
chat
to
make
sure
I
got
them
all.
M
And
then
we
have
one
last
one
from
christine
kat.
She
said
the
county
should
also
be
reserving
sewer
capacity
for
the
type
of
community
enhancements
planned
on
frederick
road,
a
few
miles
down
the
road
from
maple
avenue,
as
detailed
in
the
master
plan,
community
enhancement
areas
and
that's
everything.
B
B
A
F
Passionate
presentation
we
normally
would
have
scheduled
it
for
september
23rd,
but
mr
alderman
had
a
conflict.
That's
why
we're
moving
this
to
the
first
thursday
of
october
and
I'd
asked
if
any
of
the
planning
board
members
have
any
questions
about
any
of
the
materials
that
have
been
shared
with
you
or
the
report
that
was
provided
by
ms
nugent,
please
reach
out
to
us.
B
AB
Thank
you,
madam
chair.
Yes,
legislation
passed
since
our
last
meeting
built
70-21
restrictions
on
parking,
commercial
vehicles
and
commercial
revitalization
districts
for
the
purpose
of
prohibiting
the
parking
of
certain
commercial
vehicles
in
commercial
revitalization
districts.
The
bill
provides
specific
restrictions
in
both
the
dundalk
and
arbutus
crds
bill.
71-21
zoning
regulations,
renewable
natural
gas
fueling
facility
for
the
purpose
of
defining
compressed
natural
natural
gas
fueling
facility
permitting
a
compressed
natural
gas
fueling
facility
in
certain
areas
of
the
mh
zone,
subject
to
certain
requirements.