►
From YouTube: EY Global Blockchain: NYC
Description
2021 Fall Regional Summit
A
So
please
feel
comfortable
and
we
we
definitely
encourage
if
you
feel
comfortable
wearing
a
mask
if
you
like,
that,
is
welcome
and
appreciated
by
everybody
else.
So
that's
pretty
much
it
in
terms
of
logistics.
We
are
gonna
run
fairly
on
time
today,
because
we
have
we're
live
streaming.
This
is
the
first
time
ever
that
we
have
a
live
audience.
You
guys
are
live
right,
it's
a
live
audience
and.
A
A
I
am
not
saying
that
this
is
investment
advice,
but
they
could
one
day
be
worth
millions,
millions
of
something
of
some
other
token,
probably
the
ops
chain,
token,
which
is
a
zero
dollar
token
that
we
created
for
testing
purposes
so
and
we
even
have
the
the
the
tokens
are
available
on
the
live
stream
as
well.
So
hopefully
those
will
work
nicely.
I
think,
last
year
we
or
a
few
months
ago
we
overwhelmed
the
system
briefly,
but
it's
generally
worked
extremely
well,
so
we've
got
live
streaming
tokens.
A
We
have
an
amazing
agenda
for
you
today,
so
I
want
to
just
go
through
a
quick
spin
through
the
lineup
and
then
we'll
get
into
kind
of
the
main
event
so
I'll
be
going
first
because
I
get
to,
and
then,
after
that
we
have.
We
have
two
breaks
during
the
course
of
the
day
for
cullen
commentary.
This
is
where
people
get
up
and
make
fun
of
the
speakers
or
have
useful
and
insightful
commentary,
and
it's
actually
mostly
useful
insightful
commentary.
A
That's
going
to
come
from
jt
nickel,
who
is
with
grid
plus,
and
he
is
also
the
chief
moderator
of
the
east
finance
forum
on
reddit.
Now,
for
those
of
you
who
don't
know,
the
world's
leading
financial
superpower
is
now
reddit,
so
be
careful
right,
you
don't
want
to
mess
with
these
guys
and
we
have
nolan
ross.
Who
is
the
lead
moderator
for
the
eth
staking
forum
on
reddit
a
lot
of
power
here
in
the
room?
All
right
after
that?
A
We
have
two
amazing
panels,
so
the
first
panel
is
going
to
be
around
the
growth
of
d5
and
the
future
of
financial
services,
and
this
is
this
is
going
to
be
excellent.
It's
going
to
be
moderated
by
megan
knapp
who's
from
serotonin
and
we're
going
to
have
three
three
amazing
speakers.
First,
it's
gonna
be
john
walpert,
who
is
a
group
executive
at
consensus?
A
He
is
going
to
premiere
a
really
awesome
video
that
they've
developed
talk
about
the
baseline
protocol
and
the
future
of
real
world
assets,
business
assets
in
d5
ecosystems.
It's
not
just
going
to
be
one
token
for
another,
it's
going
to
be
real
world
financial
assets
and
business
operational
assets,
and
I
think
this
is
the
future
of
d5.
The
future
of
blockchain
isn't
just
crypto
tokens,
it's
modeling
and
managing
all
the
stuff
that
exists
in
the
real
world.
A
Secondly-
and
I'm
really
pleased
about
this-
we
have
dean,
thomas
and
hamza
khan
from
polygon.
Now
we
were
supposed
to
have
sandeep
now
wall,
but
he
was
denied
boarding
on
his
way
here
because
of
his
travel
history.
Apparently,
you
need
to
not
only
be
in
a
particular
country,
but
you
have
to
have
been
there
for
14
days
after
going
somewhere
else,
it's
complicated
and
understandable
and
frustrating.
A
I
had
a
good
night
of
sleep
last
night
because
I
wasn't
invited
to
the
met
gala
and,
and
so
I'm
fully
caffeinated
and
I
have
brand
new
fresh
t-shirts
as
well
so
they're
going
to
talk
about
polygons.
A
So
we
have
that
we
have
that
session
and
then
we're
gonna
have
another
break
of
expert
commentary
and
then
we're
gonna
have
a
talk
about
esg
right,
because
I
think
you
know
blockchain
is
going
to
be
the
technology
platform
that
makes
a
better
industrial
working
world
scale
and
we
have
spent
a
lot
of
time.
Thinking
about
this.
There's
tremendous
demand
for
better
ways
to
deliver
social
investment
and
we
believe
that
blockchain
technology
is
going
to
be
one
of
those
components.
A
We
have
three
amazing
speakers
to
talk
about
how
blockchain
technology
will
be
used
in
driving
the
growth
of
vsg,
how
about
scaling
it?
The
first
is
going
to
be
michael
casey.
He
is
the
chief
content
officer
at
coindesk
he's
also
the
guy
who
wrote
the
age
of
cryptocurrency,
which
is
really,
if
many
of
you
probably
read
that
book
as
one
of
the
first
books
about
cryptocurrency
published
by
the
mainstream
press
he's.
Also
the
author
I
found
out
last
night
he's
the
author
of
a
really
amazing
video
game
that
you
can
try
online.
A
It's
called
the
federator
and
in
the
federator
you
get
to
be
the
head
of
the
federal
reserve
and
you
fly
around
in
a
helicopter
and
you
throw
money
from
the
helicopter
and
it
is
an
awesome.
Looking
game
looks
like
a
lot
of
fun
so,
but
please
don't
play
it
while
we're
talking,
although
if
you
do
win,
let
me
know
so
and
then
we
have
two
other
amazing
people.
A
A
A
So
the
main
event
is
really
to
talk
about
sort
of
how
we
learn.
What
will
blockchain
be
like
when
we
grow
up
right?
How
are
we
going
to
make
this
business
much
much
better
and
the
blockchain
industry
does
need
to
grow
up?
If
you
read
some
of
the
editorials
and
some
of
the
twitter
feeds
people
like
oh,
my
gosh,
the
world
is
ending,
there's
so
much
stuff
going
on
right
and
the
reality.
Is
it's
not
so
bad
right?
It's
not
that
bad
being
in
this
industry,
and
it's
it's
going
to
get
better.
A
I
was
on
the
subway
this
morning.
There's
these
adorable
kids
they're
all
going
to
school
and
some
of
them
are
wearing
uniforms.
There's
one
kid
he's
like
this:
high
he's
got
a
suit
and
a
tie
on
it's
magnificently
adorable.
I
told
him
like
you,
look
amazing
and
he's
like.
Thank
you
very
much,
and
then
he
looked
at
me
and
he
said.
Are
you
wearing
that
to
work.
A
And
I
said
yes,
yes,
I
am
right
and
now
I'm
going
to
come
and
tell
you
about
how
the
whole
industry
is
going
to
grow
up,
but
it
is
going
to
grow
up
and
it's
going
to
be
a
really
excellent.
So
I
want
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
sort
of
how
we
got
into
this
mindset
of
crypto
being
under
siege.
It
isn't
it's
a
great
business.
I
want
to
talk
a
little
bit,
how
I
think
this
industry
is
going
to
become
better
with
a
little
bit
of
regulation.
A
I
am
a
big
optimist,
I'm
a
glasses
three
quarters
full
and
then
I
want
to
talk
about
how
the
blockchain
is
in
turn,
going
to
make
all
of
finance
better
and
how
we
are
together,
blockchain
and
finance
going
to
make
the
world
a
better
place.
This
is
ultimately
a
very
optimistic
point
of
view.
I
am
tragically
naive
and
I
still
believe
that
these
things
are
actually
gonna
work
out
nicely.
A
It's
gonna
have
a
happy
ending,
so
I'm
gonna
keep
going
down
that
path,
and
I
am,
I
am
aware
that
you
know
historically
sometimes
in
technology
we
start
off
with
great
intentions
and
things
don't
end
up
perfectly,
but
I
think
it's
worth
trying
again
and
trying
to
do
a
better
job
the
next
time.
A
So
let's
talk
about
kind
of
where
we
are
right.
I
think
we
got
into
this
mindset
that
crypto
might
be
under
siege,
but
the
numbers
do
not
seem
to
suggest
that
right,
it
kind
of
seems
like
business
has
been
great.
In
fact,
I
know
it
has
been
great
because
the
last
18
months
have
not
been
relaxing
right.
It
is
you
know
it's
hard
to
believe
18
months
ago.
A
We
thought
oh,
this,
this
pandemic
thing
it's
it's
going
to
be
a
little
quiet
for
a
while
uh-uh,
it's
not
being
quiet
for
one
second,
and
the
business
is
performing
extraordinarily
well
overall
right.
In
spite
of
that
right
we
hear
people
saying
you
know:
crypto
taxes,
crypto
regulation,
it's
going
to
be
terrible.
It's
going
to
destroy
the
industry,
it's
going
to
cause
all
kinds
of
chaos.
A
It's
the
end
of
innovation,
you
know,
and
and
that's
just
from
like
sort
of
routine
enforcement
actions
right,
but
we
have
to
remember
these
kinds
of
things.
That's
this
is
business
as
usual
right,
this
kind
of
stuff
gets
done
all
the
time
right
and
the
sec,
I
think,
has
been
quite
clear
right.
A
People
deserve
investor
protection
and
it
should
exist
in
all
the
different
things
that
blockchain
is
not
an
exception
to
the
rules.
Digital
assets,
many
of
them,
maybe
most
of
them,
are
securities
they're
marketed
as
securities.
We
talk
about
them
as
if
they
are
securities,
they
definitely
seem
like
securities
right.
It
doesn't
mean
that
all
of
them
are
right.
Exchanges
and
d5
platforms
are
in
effect,
securities
exchanges
and
they're,
currently
not
meeting
those
particular
rules.
This
is
a
normal
pattern
in
the
world
of
technology.
We
start
kind
of
outside
the
rules.
A
We
innovate
a
lot
of
stuff.
We
come
up
with
new
ideas
and
then
gradually
we
get
integrated
into
the
rules.
We
get
integrated
to
security.
We
get
integrated
into
the
process.
This
is
not
a
atypical
pattern
right
now,
of
course,
it
would
help
if
all
the
regulators
would
be
on
the
same
page
about
exactly
where
things
are
going
right,
but
that's
also
a
normal
process
right.
We
have
a
very
decentralized
regulatory
ecosystem,
but
I
think
so
far
the
industry
is
sort
of
taking
all
of
these
ups
and
downs
in
stride.
Right.
A
So
what
do
I
mean
specifically
by
that
right?
Blockchain
already
does
some
things
extremely
well,
in
my
opinion,
right.
I
think
the
internet
hasn't
done
so
well
in
some
of
the
governance
methodology
that
we
have
right.
Centralized
enterprises
plus
safe
harbor
rules
mean
that
you
know
you
have
unaccountable
participants,
but
you
have
corporations
that
can
make
money
off
the
behavior
of
unaccountable
participants
right
and
that
seems
to
have
led,
at
least
in
some
cases,
to
a
fairly
toxic
ecosystem
right.
On
the
other
hand,
blockchain
is
interesting.
A
It's
got
a
decentralized
governance
model,
but
if
you
are
staking
your
assets
in
that
ecosystem,
if
you
behave
badly,
you
are
destroying
the
value
of
your
own
assets,
and
so
I
think
it's
possible
when
it
works.
Blockchain
works
really
well
in
creating
an
ecosystem
where
the
participants
are
responsible
and
feel
a
sense
of
ownership
over
their
behavior
right.
I
think,
potentially,
we
have
a
good
model
and
by
the
way
I
think
at
least
in
some
cases
it
works
really
well
right.
People
talk
about.
Oh,
you
know,
ethereum
has
problems.
They
had
that
hard
fork
right.
A
The
dow
fork
actually
ethereum's
had,
I
think
I
counted
14
forks,
14,
forks,
a
13
of
which
have
been
orderly,
well
structured,
planned
in
advance
right.
This
is
not
evidence
of
an
ecosystem
that
can't
evolve.
This
is
evidence
of
a
organized
structured
ecosystem.
That
is
maturing,
that's
adapting
its
technology
and
that's
growing
its
capabilities.
A
So
we
know
that
in
some
cases,
not
every
case,
but
in
some
cases
this
blockchain
model
of
decentralized
governance
and
and
sort
of
asset
staking
is
very
successful
and
by
the
way
the
ethereum
foundation
is
becoming
a
very
typical
public
service,
open
source
technology
type
of
foundation.
Right
they
have
standards
processes
they
have
boards,
they
have
participation,
it's
not
a
one-man,
show
right,
it's
it's
maturing,
really
really
well.
So
to
me,
this
is
evidence
that
it
works
extremely
well
right.
A
There's
lots
and
lots
of
evidence
that
there
are
elements
of
this
ecosystem
that
do
not
function
well.
Right
and
one
of
my
favorites
is,
I
read,
I
read
a
website
and
I
see
a
website,
and
it
explained
it
said
just
so.
You
know
it
was
in
the
fine
print
at
the
bottom.
Fine
print
is
the
best.
It's
always
the
most
entertaining
thing
right
and
the
fine
print
at
the
bottom.
It
says
just
so,
you
know
your
purchase
of
our
ico.
Tokens
will
be
categorized
as
a
donation.
A
That
does
not
seem
like
the
kind
of
thing
that
I
want
to
buy
into
right,
and
indeed
lots
of
people
have
been
kind
of
are
frustrated
by
that
we've
done
our
own
data.
We
did
surveys
for
two
years
in
a
row.
Basically,
we
guess
we
guess,
based
on
our
data,
about
70
of
the
money
that
went
into
icos,
was
stolen
or
fraudulent.
A
Now
that's
still
left
30
and
by
the
way
there
have
been
some
really
good
results
from
that
30
percent.
But
there
was
a
lot
of
stuff
that
honestly
may
have
started
with
good
intentions,
but
was
just
infeasible
right
and
I
think,
as
people
went
for
it,
they're
like
no.
Actually
I
guess
we
can't
do
that
with
blockchain
at
least
not
right.
Now
there
are
huge
conflicts
of
interest,
so
I
think
we
are
headed
for
we're
already
starting
to
see
this
we're
headed
for
a
period
of
trouble.
A
I
think
where
you
have
token
controlled
standards
and
groups
that
are
at
odds
with
these
shareholder
run
companies
that
founded
them
and
have
a
large
chunk
of
the
tokens
right.
So
at
some
point,
we're
going
to
have
say
community
members
who
want
to
see
say
a
bigger
expansion
of
the
ecosystem
and
a
shareholder
owned
company
that
would
rather
sort
of
tax
the
ecosystem
and
generate
more
cash
flow
out.
A
And
so
I
think
we
know
kind
of
historically
that
the
more
complicated
the
rules
are,
the
greater
the
insider
preference
right.
It's
fair,
provided
you
understand
all
the
rules
and
have
an
immense
amount
of
time
to
understand
all
the
rules
and
by
the
way,
the
number
of
people
who
have
the
time
to
do.
That
is
quite
limited
right.
So
I
believe
there
are
some
really
really
big
payoffs
that
could
come
from
applying
some
of
the
regulatory
models
that
exist
in
other
parts
of
the
business
investor
protection.
A
I
personally
and
my
my
opinion:
don't
fully
buy
the
idea
that
accredited
investors
are
cred.
This
accredited
investor
model
is
a
rule
that
prevents
people
from
getting
good
returns.
I
believe
it
is
genuinely
a
rule
that
prevents
many
people
from
losing
their
money,
because
how
many
of
you
know
somebody?
This
is
an
audience
who's,
probably
very
savvy,
but
how
many
do
you
know
somebody
who
is
investing
in
crypto
and
has
no
idea
what
they're
buying
I
mean
like
none
right?
We
all
do.
We
know
that
this
is
true.
A
They
many
people
do
not
know
what
they
are
purchasing
right
and
so
they,
it
is
fair
to
think
of
ways
to
level
the
playing
field
to
standardize
the
data
right.
You
shouldn't
have
to
understand
every
single
thing
about
every
protocol
to
understand
which
ones
are
worth
investing
in
right.
You
know
we
enjoy
a
lot
of
benefits
from
like
finance
websites,
you
go
and
you
can
compare.
A
You
know
inventory
levels
dso
days
of
sales
outstanding,
you
have
all
these
financial
standardized
financial
metrics
on
corporations,
and
we
use
it
all
the
time
to
make
informed
decisions
without
knowing
everything
about
every
company
that
we
invest
in
right.
Standardized
data
is
incredibly
powerful:
standardized
disclosure,
fair
disclosure
to
all
the
people
who
are
stakeholders
in
the
community.
These
are
not.
These
are
not
sort
of
innovation,
killing
ideas.
These
are
basic
fairness
that
can
be
reasonably
enforced
across
the
ecosystem
and
some
transparency
and
accountability
right.
A
If
you
launch
an
offering,
should
it
be
any
different
than
if
you
started
a
company
and
and
went
ice,
you
know
ipo,
you
should
have
a
lock-up
period
as
well.
You
should
be
attached
to
the
business
that
you
started.
A
I'll,
probably
still
get
some
mean
tweets,
you
know,
you've
upset,
you
know,
you've
upset
people
on
twitter.
When
twitter
says
you
want
it,
you
scroll
through
replies
and
twitter
says.
Are
you
sure
you
want
to
see
the
rest
of
the
the
replies
and
you
click
yes
and
you
realize
that
that
was
a
mistake.
A
A
It
cost
between
two
and
a
half
and
roughly
five
million
dollars
to
go
public.
It
costs
about
a
million
dollars
a
year
on
average
to
maintain
yourself
as
a
publicly
traded
company.
And
then
you
know,
if
you
don't
want
to
do
that,
you
want
to
go
in
under
the
crowdfunding
rules,
the
sec
limits.
You
do,
I
think,
about
five
million
dollars
a
year.
So
if
you
don't
want
to
do
those
costs,
you
can
still
get
5
million
bucks
a
year.
A
That's
not
pocket
change
right
in
terms
of
starting
up
a
company,
so
my
first
point
would
be
listen.
There
are
some
limitations,
but
they're
not
insurmountable.
Let's
look
at
the
big
dows,
the
big
treasuries
right.
You
know.
Many
of
these
big
treasuries
have
tens
of
millions,
hundreds
of
millions
in
a
few
cases,
billions
of
dollars
in
assets
right.
It
is
absolutely
within
the
capacity
of
the
industry
to
invest
in
some
of
these
tools
to
comply
with
the
same
some
of
the
same
standards.
Right.
A
Yes,
it's
not
cheap,
but
it's
not
an
insurmountable
cost
and
the
payoff
might
be
very,
very
large
right.
In
fact,
I
would
argue
that
the
payoff
is
is
going
to
be
gargantuan
right.
We
are
a
2
trillion
dollar
industry.
Would
it
be
so
bad
if
we
ended
up
say,
like
the
stock
market
only
30
times
larger
right?
That
would
be
fine.
A
Wouldn't
it
right
would
be
bank
assets
60
times
larger
right,
and
I
believe,
by
the
way,
that
over
time,
blockchain
technology
and
the
crypto
ecosystem
will
come
to
absorb
all
of
those
other
markets,
because
this
is
where
you
will
put
those
assets
to
put
them
to
work
right,
but
to
do
that
to
sort
of
unlock
that
achievement
to
unlock
access
to
that
to
to
go
from
being
a
two
trillion
dollar
ecosystem
to
what
I
think
ultimately
should
be
something
on
the
order
of
300
trillion.
That
seems
reasonable,
right,
300
trillion
right.
A
We
should
be
able
to
do
that.
It's
achievable,
but
we
have
to
accept
kind
of
level
playing
fool
playing
field,
common
rules,
common
standards,
so
what
I
would
argue
is
we
should
welcome
kind
of
this
transition
to
being
kind
of
large
enterprises.
We
should
welcome
this
transition
to
having
being
subject
to
the
same
rules
as
all
of
these
other
ecosystems
and
that,
ultimately,
that
will
be
fantastic.
That
would
be
incredible.
We
will
grow
literally
hundreds
of
times
larger.
A
So
we
will
make
blockchain
much
much
better.
I
believe
I
believe
also
in
turn.
Blockchain
will
make
the
financial
ecosystem
much
more
effective
as
well.
So
I
believe
kind
of
our
existing
centralized
financial
infrastructure
is
incredibly
scalable,
it's
astonishingly
scalable,
and
by
the
way
I
don't
believe
it
will
ever
be
better.
A
There
will
ever
be
a
blockchain
better
way
to
do
simple
basic
transactions
like
walking
into
a
store
and
buying
a
soft
drink
and
walking
out
right
or
a
bag
of
potato
chips.
There
just
won't
be
a
better
way
right.
It
is
you
know
these
scalable
consumer
systems
can
handle
150
or
more
million
transactions
a
day
right,
they're,
incredibly,
incredibly
efficient.
They
use
relatively
speaking
per
transaction,
very
very
small
amount.
Their
carbon
footprint
is
tiny
right,
whereas
87
kilograms
of
carbon
on
average
for
a
bitcoin
transaction.
A
Now
we
can
lower
the
carbon
footprint
of
other
ecosystems,
and
it's
going
to
happen
right.
Blockchain
is
about
to
become
vastly
more
efficient,
ethereum's
already
more
efficient
right,
ethereum
2.0
will
be
100
times
more
efficient
than
that
right.
Bitcoin
is
transitioning
to
greener
energy,
no
matter
how
good
that
gets.
A
It
will
probably
never
be
cheaper
than
a
credit
card
transaction
from
an
operational
complexity
standpoint,
but
I'm
not
sure
that
we
need
to
copy
my
can
of
coke
purchase
across
a
thousand
network
nodes
or
10
000
network
nodes.
It's
just
not
necessary
right.
What
we
do
need
are
systems
that
can
handle
complex
rules
in
business
logic,
but.
A
That's
perfect,
it's
perfect!
Now
what
we
need
to
do
is
synchronize
it
with
the
key
points
of
that
slide.
Sharing
data
and
logic
across
multiple
parties
is
really
important.
It's
really
difficult,
and
it's
not
really
something
that
existing
systems
do
well
right:
blending
the
operating
transactions
with
the
financial
transactions.
It's
not
something
that
happens
well
right
today.
A
Right
we
have
business
agreements.
On
the
one
hand
we
have
procurement,
we
have
inventory
management,
we
have
all
those
systems
on
one
side
of
the
business
and
then
we
have
finance
on
the
other
side
of
the
business,
and
we
have
this
army
of
people
in
between
who
match
them
up
right
was
that
check
associated
with
that
purchase
order
that
was
matched
up
with
that
inventory.
It's
called
three-way
match
for
a
reason
right,
because
it
needs
three
people
three
days
to
get
it
right
apparently,
but
that
is
incredibly
complex
and
difficult
blockchains.
Do
that
really?
A
A
That's
incredible
cycle
time
compression
right
and
that's
not
because
it
can't
be
done
in
other
systems,
because
so
much
easier
with
blockchain,
so
blockchain
works
really
really
well,
and
it's
astonishingly
innovative
and
in
particular
d5
is
probably
the
most
innovative
technology
ecosystem
I
have
ever
seen.
It
is
incredibly
fast,
so
I
did
this.
A
I
made
this
chart
like
two
weeks
ago
and
I
counted
up
about
200
d5
services
on
d5
pulse
200
of
them
that
are
on
average,
probably
less
than
a
year
old
and
I'll
bet
you
there
are
more
today
right
and
the
total
amount
of
value
kind
of
locked
in
this
ecosystem
has
gone
from
like
less
than
a
billion
dollars
18
months
ago
to
around
100
billion
dollars.
Today,
and
I
think
you
know
years
from
now,
we
won't
talk
about
value
locked
in
the
d5
ecosystem
because
it
will
be
all
of
it
right.
A
We
are
working
with
major
banks
today
to
tokenize
assets
and
put
them
on
chain.
Why
do
people
want
to
tokenize
assets
and
put
them
on
chain
because
they
want
those
assets
to
go
to
work
right,
and
so
that's
an
incredibly
important
infrastructure?
That's
why
I
believe,
eventually
we're
going
to
take
all
these
assets
they're
in
the
banking
system
that
are
in
the
bond
system
in
the
stock
market,
they
will
get
tokenized,
they
will
be
made
programmable
and
they
will
be
plugged
into
the
defy
ecosystem.
A
Now,
why
is
the
dfi
ecosystem
so
incredibly
innovative?
I
think
it
comes
from
kind
of
three
factors.
Number
one,
it's
decentralized
decentralization
means
trust
right.
The
problem
with
centralized
systems
isn't
just
that
somebody
controls
them.
It's
that
somebody
is
probably
not
you
right.
I
believe
that
one
of
the
big
reasons
why
we
have
big,
successful,
centralized
consumer
products
entities
is
because
they're
very
good
at
aggregating
demand
from
consumers,
but
we
don't
have
that
in
the
industrial
space
because
nobody
wants
to
share
their
sensitive
business
information
as
a
consumer.
A
The
second
thing
is
interoperability,
so
this,
I
think,
is
something
that
is
much
more
successful
in
d5
than
even
we
were
on
the
internet.
So
on
the
internet
we
had
a
lot
of
standards
and
standards
allowed
us
to
sort
of
plug
all
of
these
pieces
together,
but
in,
but
much
of
that
was
unstructured.
So
the
internet
gave
us
all
these
protocols.
I
can
stream
all
kinds
of
media,
I
can
watch
music,
but
what
they
don't
have
is
structured
data.
D5
is
all
about
the
structured
data.
It's
not
just
that.
A
I
can
move
you
move
stuff
to
you,
it's
that
I
have
defined
a
token
that
token
has
a
value
and
that
token
has
a
specific
structure,
and
if
you
give
me
an
erc20
or
an
erc721,
I
know
what
to
do
with
it.
I
can
plug
it
in
to
something
else.
It
looks
more
like
a
lego
block
and
less
like
a
cable
and
a
plug.
Maybe
that's
a
good
analogy
right.
You
know
one
is
a
cable
and
a
plug,
and
the
other
is
a
lego
blog.
A
A
So
the
internet
brought
us
this
api
ecosystem,
which
is
amazing
right.
You
can.
You
can
do
incredible
things
with
apis
right.
My
favorite
example
is
this
product.
I
think
it's
called
clown
burger.
Has
anybody
heard
of
clown
burger,
so
clown
burger?
I
think
it's
run
by
a
company
that
the
the
ceo
is
a
bit
of
a
youtube
celebrity
right.
This
is
how
we
hear
about
these
things.
My
kids
all
want,
like
my
kids,
want
to
be
youtubers.
A
I
kind
of
want
to
be
one
too
just
so
my
kids
will
watch
me,
but
we
have.
We
can
take
celebrity
data
from
places
like
youtube.
We
can
put
it
into
instagram.
We
can
create
branding
campaigns,
we
can
use
cloud
kitchens
to
develop
products
right
and
then
we
can
use
driver-based
ecosystems
to
deliver
them.
So
you
can
basically
build
a
new
restaurant,
a
new
brand,
a
whole
national
chain
from
apis
right.
So
apis
are
incredibly
powerful
that
the
downside
of
apis
is.
They
are
fundamentally
permissioned
right.
A
A
I
don't
need
your
permission
to
use
a
a
a
particular
dollar
coin
or
dollar
token
in
my
loan
protocol,
and
that
makes
a
big
difference
because
it
means,
if
I
want
to
create
something,
I
don't
need
to
rebuild
the
wheel
or
spend
a
lot
of
time
convincing
other
people
to.
Let
me
do
it
and
I
think
this
has
produced
an
even
faster
pace
of
innovation
than
we
got
with
the
internet.
A
So
that's
why
I
think
you
know
blockchain
will
be
d5
in
particular,
will
be
transformational
now.
The
number
one
question
that
I
get
asked
when
I
talk
to
large
corporate
clients
is-
and
I
heard
it
this
morning
from
one
of
my
good
friends-
is-
is
blockchain
ever
going
to
scale.
The
answer
is
yes
right.
The
answer
is
yes,
not
only
is
it
ever
going
to
scale,
but
it's
really
actually
starting
to
scale
very
nicely
now
so
historically
right,
if
you
look
at
this
chart,
you
can
see.
A
Ethereum
goes
up
and
down,
but
it
basically
handles
about
a
little
more
than
a
million
transactions
a
day,
and
it
doesn't
really
go
above
that
for
very
long
periods
of
time,
but
now
that
we
have
layer,
two
ecosystems
running
on
top
of
that,
suddenly
our
transaction
capacity
looks
a
lot
bigger
and
I've
just
picked
one
here.
It's
the
polygon
commit
chain
no
prizes
for
guessing.
A
A
Today,
100
million
transactions
a
day
and
by
the
time
you
get
to
ethereum,
2.0
or
more
with
sharding,
and
all
these
other
layer,
twos
and
possibly
layer,
threes
right.
The
potential
number
of
transactions
is
billions
of
transactions.
Now
john
wolpert
who's
going
to
talk
later
from
consensus.
He
and
I
I
think
we
once
sat
down.
We
did
a
little
back
of
the
envelope
and
thought.
Okay.
A
What
if
we
wanted
to
move,
say
the
entire
automotive
industry
onto
the
blockchain,
and
we
want
to
count
every
car
that's
manufactured,
so
we
want
to
issue
an
nft
for
every
car
that's
made
and
we
want
to
have
within
that
bill
of
materials
nfts
for
all
the
major
components
right.
That's
tens
of
billions
of
tokens.
A
Right
is
probably
millions
of
tokens
a
day,
throw
in
every
purchase,
order,
every
inventory
pool
and
we
sort
of
came
up
with
them
and
said
wow.
That
is
that's
a
lot
of
transactions.
The
answer
is
today
in
this
ethereum
ecosystem
of
multiple
layers
and
multiple
service
providers
that
is
easily
manageable,
and
one
of
the
key
objectives
that
we
have
in
setting
up
our
working
arrangements
with
polygon
is
the
ability
to
scale
that
so
we
can
pick
an
industry
like
automotive,
we
could
put
every
car
in
there.
We
could
pick
an
industry
like
electricity.
A
We
could
put
every
electric
meter
there
right.
We
could
pick.
You
know
an
industry
like
finance.
We
could
put
every
government
bond
there
right,
so
it's
possible
to
develop
industry-specific
side
chains,
it's
possible
to
develop
kind
of
cross-chain
connectivity
right.
So,
in
short
order,
I
think
the
answer
is
fears
that
we
can't
scale
the
blockchain
ecosystem
are
going
away.
A
I
wouldn't
say
it's
time
to
replace
all
of
our
credit
cards
and
drop
all
those
transactions
into
that
system,
because
it
doesn't
make
sense,
but
the
idea
that
we
can't
model
manage
and
scale
an
industrial
ecosystem
across
multiple
companies
isn't
isn't
something
we
should
be
worried
too
much
about
at
this
point.
We
don't
know
how
all
the
pieces
will
fit
together,
but
I
feel
increasingly
confident
that
it's
going
to
work
out
fine,
there's
a
theme
here.
I
think
I'm
excessively
optimistic.
I
know
that
right.
What
is
this
going
to
look
like?
A
I
would
say
it's
going
to
be
very:
it's
going
to
be
continue
to
accelerate
in
terms
of
the
rate
of
innovation.
I
liken
this
to
my
experience.
In
the
early
days
of
the
internet,
we
started
with
a
bunch
of
basic
building
blocks
and
the
first
thing
we
did
was
build
stuff
that
is
worse
than
the
offline
version
right
shopping
online,
used
to
be
worse
than
receiving
a
paper.
Catalog
right
used
to
be
excruciating.
A
Now
it's
better.
I
mean
people.
Do
still
send
occasional
paper
catalog,
but
it's
a
much
better
experience,
but
we
went
from
this
very
predictable
thing
to
stuff
that
was,
we
went
from
worse
than
offline
to
better
than
offline
to
wow.
I
didn't
think
that
was
possible
right.
How
did
we
end
up
with
celebrity
chef
branded
restaurants
based
on
crowdsourced
delivery
systems,
cloud
kitchens
and
instagram
celebrity
posts?
A
A
Where
do
I
think
we
are
headed
over
the
next
couple
of
years
in
this
space?
I
believe
this
kind
of
three
steps
that
we
are
going
to
see
in
terms
of
the
evolution
of
the
financial
services
industry.
The
first
is
what
I
will
call
the
access
phase
we're
in
that
phase
right
now.
This
is
where
every
major
existing
financial
player
wants
to
offer
their
customer
base
digital
assets
right
every
app
that
you
open
up.
They're
like
oh
look.
A
Now
you
can
buy
bitcoin
right
and
I
think
soon,
you'll
be
able
to
buy
ether
and
maybe
a
selection
of
curated
tokens,
and
I
personally
predict
that
by
the
end
of
this
year,
somebody's
going
to
offer
one
of
these
major
public-facing
apps
is
going
to
offer
their
first
curated
selection
of
defy
services,
so
we're
in
the
access
phase.
The
second
thing
that's
happening
simultaneously
is
tokenization
we're
taking
our
existing
transaction-centric
off-chain
assets.
We
are
wrapping
them
just
like
we're
wrapping
a
bitcoin,
but
now
we're
going
to
end
up
wrapping
other
types
of
assets.
A
Real-World
assets
shares
assets,
cars,
bonds,
whatever
it
is
we're
going
to
wrap
those
things,
we're
going
to
make
them
programmable
and
we're
going
to
start
deploying
them
into
the
defy
ecosystem,
and
then
I
believe
the
third
phase
will
come
after
this,
which
is
integration
right.
If
you're
a
large
enterprise,
do
you
know,
do
you
even
care
where
your
stock
trade
was
as
an
individual
right?
If
you
buy
a
share
of
talk
honestly,
I
don't
actually
know
which
exchange
my
stock
trades
are
done
on.
A
You
will
see
dollar
tokens,
you
will
see
ether.
Probably
you
will
see
inventory
assets,
you
will
see
assets
in
your
ecosystem
and
when
you
want
to
send
an
asset
to
somebody,
you're
not
going
to
think
yourself
questions
does
that
go
on
the
ethereum
ecosystem?
Do
I
need
the
ethereum
address?
Do
I
need
a
hash
for
that?
You're
not
going
to
worry
about
any
of
that
you're
just
going
to
send
the
money
and
it's
going
to
show
up
in
their
account
they're
not
going
to
wonder
how
do
they
get
there?
A
It's
just
going
to
become
an
invisible
part
of
the
plumbing.
That's
the
end
stage
of
this
game.
I
believe-
and
I
think
you
know
competitively
one
of
the
things
that
we're
going
to
see
is
these
two
ecosystems
are
going
to
start
to
converge
and
look
like
each
other
right.
So
we
have.
A
We
have
crypto
companies
that
are
getting
banking
licenses
and
we
have
banks
that
are
getting
into
crypto
businesses
they're,
not
just
going
to
leave
these
on
the
side,
they're
going
to
start
to
merge
them
together,
especially
the
existing
financial
services
industry.
Their
value
proposition
it
to
a
large
degree,
is
one-stop
shopping
right.
A
You
can
do
all
of
this
with
us
right,
so
there's
going
to
be,
I
think,
a
really
big
competitive
battle
that
will
go
on
over
time,
but
I
think
eventually,
the
end
result
is
that
we're
not
really
going
to
be
able
to
tell
the
difference.
You're
going
to
open
up
your
account
and
it's
not
even
going
to
be
a
bank
account
or
a
brokerage
account
you're,
going
to
open
up
your
kind
of
asset
account
right
and
you'll
have
money.
You'll
have
inventory,
you'll
have
tokens,
you'll
have
stocks,
you'll
have
all
kinds
of
things
in
there.
A
So,
let's
switch
a
little
bit
from
the
incredible
innovative
power
blockchain
and
how
I
think
it's
going
to
transform
finance
and
talk
about
how
it's
going
to
transform
other
parts
of
the
world.
Now,
in
the
prior
conversations
that
we've
had,
we
talk
a
lot
about
how
we
believe,
blockchain
and
d5
will
eventually
become
d:
everything
the
ops
right,
decentralized
operations,
decentral
decentralized,
business
applications
right,
you
name
it.
If
it's
a
service
today
that
you
can
get
in
a
cloud
infrastructure,
it
will
be
delivered
as
part
of
a
decentralized
technology
stack
in
the
future.
A
I
will
not
blow
your
minds
by
telling
you
that
I
came
up
with
these
numbers
by
googling
them
right,
a
little
internet
search.
This
is
not
precision
research,
but
it's
going
to
be
like
a
few
trillion
dollars
give
or
take
a
trillion
or
two
right
real
money,
but
four
and
a
half
trillion
to
dec
carbonize,
just
the
u.s
electrical
grid
right.
Another
four
trillion
for
education
transformation.
I
know
jt
you
and
your
wife,
given
your
teaching
roles
would
appreciate
that
you'll
don't
spend
it
all
in
one
place.
A
Three
trillion
dollars
for
climate
change,
adaptations
right,
we're
talking
about
a
huge
amount
of
investment,
but
the
answer
I
believe,
is
that
there
is
actually
plenty
of
money
right
capital
markets.
The
job
of
capital
markets
is
to
take
money
and
put
it
to
work
and
one
of
the
most
astonishing
things
over
the
last
few
years
more
than
the
last
few
years,
something
like
the
last
50
years
has
been
the
fact
that
our
money
is
doing
a
lot
less
today,
right,
the
broadest
measure
of
the
money
supply.
A
The
mzm
looks
at
how
quickly
money
moves,
how
quickly
it
changes
hands
right,
no
matter
how
much
money
the
fed
prints.
This
is
the
problem
with
like
the
federator
video
game
and
all
the
discussions
of
the
money
supplies.
If
I
drop
10
trillion
dollars
into
the
economy-
and
you
just
leave
it
in
your
bank
account,
you
have
not
done
anything.
You've
not
stimulated
the
economy
in
any
way
you
have
to
money
has
to
move
right.
A
I
have
to
buy
something
from
you
or,
more
importantly,
you
have
to
buy
something
from
me
so
that
I
can
buy
other
stuff
right,
so
that
is
how
the
economy
grows
and
and
the
rate
at
which
money
moves
has
been
decreasing.
It's
at
the
lowest
level.
Now
in
50
years,
that
means
money
is
actually
just
sitting
around
at
least
two
trillion
dollars
in
the
fortune,
100
alone
or
probably
sitting
at
two
trillion
dollars
is
sitting
there
right.
A
I
think
because
people
say
when
you
do
the
research
that
esg
investments
offer
pretty
good
returns
in
the
current
environment,
a
six
percent
return.
It
makes
you
a
superhero
right.
I
think
I
saw
a
bank
ad
the
other
day
offering
0.1
for
like
interest
on
checking
right
that
is
consumed
by
my
atm
fees,
probably
more
than
that
right.
So
a
six
percent
irr
and
a
college
degree
four
to
seven
percent
irrs
on
renewables,
seven
to
ten
percent
on
climate
change,
adaptations
right.
So
in
theory
the
returns
on
transforming
our
society
are
gargantuan.
A
A
We
are
really
just
deluding
ourselves
right
and
all
of
these
pledges
are
meaningless,
greenwashing,
which
is
a
real
possibility,
or
we
are
sitting
on
an
incredible
opportunity,
but
we
don't
know
how
to
unlock
it
right.
So
spoiler
alert,
I'm
going
with
a
second
choice
right
that
we
are
actually
sitting
on
a
huge
opportunity.
A
We
don't
know
how
to
unlock
it,
and
my
hypothesis
is
that
blockchain
and
d5
are
the
tools
that
are
required
to
unlock
that
opportunity
and
specifically
smart
contract
infrastructure
and
the
reason
I
say
this
is
because,
unlike
a
lot
of
other
systems,
it
is
easy
to
build
complex
integrations
across
with
business
rules.
So
if
you
have
opportunities-
and
you
want
to
track
inputs
and
outputs
and
have
external
verifications,
then
it's
easier
in
fact,
it's
remarkably
simple-
to
implement
this
in
a
blockchain
ecosystem.
A
So
that
is
our
kind
of
hypothesis.
That's
our
vision
is
that
investment
capital
can
flow
into
the
esg
ecosystem
if
we
know
how
to
set
up
these
pieces
now,
there's
a
lot
here.
That's
missing
right!
This
is
an
excellent
hypothesis,
but
the
reality
is
we
need.
A
lot
of
work
has
to
be
done,
and
I
one
of
my
favorite
case
examples
is
the
railway
history
of
the
railways.
So,
in
the
uk
the
growth
of
the
railway
network
and
the
growth
of
the
telegraph
network
literally
happened
hand
in
glove
right.
A
They
have
to
happen
at
the
same
time,
because
once
you
had
a
train
moving
back
and
forth
between
two
stations
and
you
wanted
to
have
more
than
one
train
going
at
the
same
time,
you
had
to
have
a
communication
system
that
allowed
you
to
make
sure
that
the
trains
would
not
hit
each
other
because
they
were
occupying
the
same
tracks.
A
At
the
same
time,
in
fact,
they
had
a
series
of
pretty
horrific
rail
accidents
in
the
early
days
of
rail,
and
then
they
realized
you've
got
to
deploy
the
telegraph
system
to
manage
all
the
switching,
and
so
you
can
actually
see
a
chart.
They
literally
move
in
lockstep
industrial
infrastructure
scalability
with
communications
infrastructure
scalability.
This
is
an
old
story
right,
esg
scalability,
I
believe,
will
require
blockchain
scalability,
and
I
have
it's
not
just
the
only.
This
is
not
the
only
one.
I've
got
two
other
great
examples,
and
it's
really
incredible.
A
Another
one
is
from
the
early
days
of
the
railway
system.
The
new
york
state
railway
was
overwhelmed
with
over
4
million
freight
bills
a
year,
and
so
they
bought
one
of
the
very
first
hollerith
punch
card
machines
to
handle
that
hollareth,
if
you
don't
know,
is
that
the
company
that
existed
before
ibm
and
became
ibm
right.
A
Infrastructure
technology
is
essential
and
then
my
other
favorite
one
another
ibm.
One
is
transaction
processing.
The
mainframe
business
and
transaction
processing
was
built
originally
started.
One
of
the
biggest
early
applications
was
calculating
utility
bills
right
airline
reservations,
hotel
reservations,
utility
bills
is
all
about
massively
scaling
a
business
that
requires
millions
of
individual
users
who
are
paying
individuals,
small
amounts
of
money
and
they're.
Turning
that
into
hundred
millions
billions.
Ultimately,
trillions
of
dollars
of
capital
investment
right,
that's
what
the
infrastructure
is
paying
for.
It
takes
it
infrastructure
to
gather
these
small
amounts
of
money
right.
A
What
people
sometimes
call
the
river
of
pennies
right
and
turn
them
into
massive
multi-billion
dollar
capital
infrastructure
transformations?
So
we
now
need
the
same
in
the
world
of
blockchain,
so
I
would
argue
if
we
needed
it
for
utilities,
if
we
needed
it
for
railways,
if
we
needed
it
for
airlines,
why
not
for
energy
transformation.
A
So
what
does
success?
Look
like
right
if
we
fast
forward
five
or
ten
years.
What
does
success?
Look
like
in
this
ecosystem?
I
would
say
it
will
have
two
very
visible
characteristics.
So
the
first
thing
is:
if
you
are
involved
on
the
inside,
it
will
look
like
a
complete
and
total
mess.
This,
by
the
way,
is
a
real-time
depiction
of
our
current
financial
system
right
and
also
our
current
legal
infrastructure
system
and
our
operational
infrastructure
system.
This
is
how
it
works.
A
If
you're
on
the
inside
the
deeper
you
get
on
the
inside
the
more
it
looks
like
an
absolute
disaster
and
a
complete
mess
that
is
totally
normal
right
and
if
you're,
not
it's
completely
invisible
right,
and
one
of
my
sort
of
hypotheses
is
that
the
world's
most
successful
infrastructures
are
the
ones
that
become
totally
invisible
and
are
completely
taken
for
granted,
and
that's
what
I
would
like
us
to
become
invisible
and
taken
for
granted.
That
would
be
an
ideal
outcome.
A
B
One
of
the
challenges,
one
of
the
challenges
of
building
business
models
on
the
blockchain
is
that
you
end
up
trying
to
shoehorn
business
models
onto
a
token
model,
because
at
least
public
blockchains
were
built
for
simple
peer-to-peer
transfer
systems.
B
A
So
I
I
definitely
agree
with
your
point
right.
I
think
one
of
the
problems
with
the
especially
the
early
end
versions
of
initial
coin
offerings,
where
people
try
to
take
a
business
model
that
made
a
lot
of
sense
and
they
said
okay.
Now,
how
can
I
structure
this
so
that
we
can
have
like
these
tokens
to
gain
in
value
and
sort
of
look
like
an
investment,
but
our
utility
tickets?
It
got
too
complicated
right
and
it
it
created
unnecessary
complexity.
A
B
A
Need
to
have
an
artificial
token
model
to
support
a
traditional
business
model
on
a
public
blockchain
right.
So
if
we
just
want
to
transact
with
each
other-
and
we
are
comfortable
just
paying
regular
transaction
fees
and
transacting
in
dollars,
we
don't
really
need
any
fancy,
complicated
token
infrastructure
right
all
of
the
stuff
that
we
build
doesn't
rely
on
ico
tokens
or
your
kind
of
utility
payment
tokens.
It
just
runs
on
dollars
and
digital
asset
tokens
and
we
pay
transaction
fees.
A
A
We
have
an
application
called
public
finance
manager
and
it's
got
some
really
really
big
contracts,
smart
contracts
in
it
and
we
we
calculated
it
would
be
something
on
the
order
of
tens
of
thousands
of
dollars
to
deploy
these
contracts
on
the
main
net
and
then
like
another
twenty
dollars
per
transaction
or
thirty
dollars
per
transaction.
We're
like
yeah,
that's
that's
impossible,
but
deploying
all
of
them
on
a
layer.
Two
like
polygon,
four
bucks,
plus
a
half
a
cent
per
transaction
at
half
a
cent
per
transaction.
We
can.
A
I
think
I
use
all
my
question
time
for
the
one
question
so
with
that
I
want
to
bring
up
our
next
speakers,
jt
and
nolan
from
east
finance
and
east
acre,
jt
and
nolan.
Thank
you.
C
Hello,
everybody,
my
name
is
jeremiah
nichols
aka
jt,
nick
on
reddit.
I
know
he
was
blowing
me
up
a
little
bit
as
a
lead
moderator,
but
actually
it's
a
gang
of
12
to
run
the
place
and
I'm
just
a
public-facing
guy.
I
spent
18
years
in
public
education
as
a
teacher
and
I'm
proof
of
concept
that
you
two
could
leave.
C
One
career
moved
into
the
blockchain
industry,
and
so
now
work
for
grid
plus,
so
the
e-finance
form
is,
is
where
pauline
made
fast
friendship
and
it
was
really
during
the
pandemic,
where
you
have
the
unintended
benefit
of
being
locked
down
and
how
you
can
forge
new
ways
of
doing
things,
which
is
why
we're
doing
a
live
stream
along
with
the
real
time
event.
This
is
nolan
ross.
Fellow
moderator,
on.
D
E
Yeah,
I'm
owen
ross,
a
moderator,
read
staker.
Thank
you
for
the
nice
intro
call
we're
just
internet
police,
though
I
think
you
oversold
the
amount
of
power
we
have
like
just
a
hair.
You
know.
E
Running
their
own
eth1,
node,
e2
node,
validating
keeping
the
ethereum
decentralized.
I
encourage
you
all
to
come
out
and
give
us
a
visit,
we're
very
friendly,
say
hello.
We
run
all
kinds
of
educational
events,
fun
events,
we're
building
some
cool
tools,
colfax
waigu
steakhouse
makes
taking
more
accessible
for
everybody.
C
Yeah
they
they're
always
hosting
live
streams
on
youtube
guiding
people.
They
were
also
brought
the
po
app
idea
to
the
table
for
for
ey,
and
so
there's
a
there's,
a
pull
out
thing.
Where
we're
talking
about
a
use
case
for
a
blockchain.
You
know
some
people
wonder
about
the
tokenomics.
Does
everything
need
to
be?
On
the
blockchain
token?
I
think
the
poep
thing
is
how
companies
are
going
to
be
incentivizing
people
through
loyalty
programs,
all
those
things
right
so,
but
going
back
to
reddit
for
a
second.
C
The
reason
why
reddit
needs
to
be
a
part
of
the
ethereum
and
the
in
the
broader
ecosystem
of
blockchain
is
that
when
you
have
a
good
moderating
team,
we
can
help
make
a
nice
walled
garden
for
good
conversation.
We
eliminate
spammers.
C
If
you
try
to
go,
take
your
battle
axe
to
twitter,
you're
kind
of
on
your
own.
Sometimes
you
don't
know
who's
real
who's,
not
real.
Well,
at
least
on
reddit.
We
have
a
chance
here
to
help
guide
conversation
facilitate
culture.
It's
a
good
place
to
come
and
meet
people.
Paul
brody,
reached
out
to
me
on
on
reddit,
introduced
himself
a
while
back
and
we
became
good
friends
out.
C
So
it's
like
this
public
utility
reddit's
like
a
public
utility,
come
and
talk
to
us
anytime.
If
you
got
a
team,
you
want.
You
want
a
little
bit
of
visibility,
reach
out
to
jt
nickel
on
youth
finance,
he's
also
on
the
east
staker
lamboshi.
He
goes.
They
call
him
nolan,
but
he's
lamboshi
right.
You
always
meet
some
incredible
usernames
out
there,
but
anyway
we're
really
happy
to
be
here.
This
is
my
first
time
doing
a
conference
and
I've
never
been
to
new
york
city
before
I'm
from
kansas.
F
C
E
Yeah
yeah
spall,
thank
you
for
having
me
so
it's
so
exciting
to
be
here.
Also
yeah.
We
mentioned
the
po
app,
so
a
po
app
is
just
a
little
digital
collectible
nft,
it's
really
fun
to
collect
them
and
you
can
show
them
off
to
your
friends
and
brag.
You
know,
oh,
I
went
to
new
york.
I
I
was
at
the
conference,
so
there'll
be
a
qr
code
up
there
I
tried
to
scan
it
earlier.
It
seems
like
it
wasn't
working.
Did
we
get
it
sorted
out?
E
So
yeah
make
sure
you
claim
that
if
you
don't
have
an
ethereum
address,
you
can
claim
it
to
an
email
address
and
then
later
on,
move
it
to
an
ethereum
address.
But
I
do
encourage
you
to
collect
co-op,
scan
the
qr
code.
They're
really
fun,
we
love
them.
We
give
them
away
for
everything.
C
And
so
for
anybody
that
is
streaming
watching
from
from
abroad,
east
finance
has
70
000
members.
Each
staker
has
30
000
members.
If
any
of
you
guys
have
questions
for
any
of
the
presenters
today,
we'll
make
sure
that
the
presenters
go
back
and
follow
up
and
answer
your
questions,
I'll
read
it
in
some
form
or
another.
So
thank
you
so
much
for
having
us
come
out.
Anybody
got
any
questions
at
all
all
right
and
so
we'll
be
back
on
about
an
hour.
I
guess
all
right.
Thank
you.
So
much
take
care.
Thank
you.
A
So,
in
terms
of
logistics,
we're
going
to
start
our
deck
session
in
five
minutes
right,
so
we're
gonna
start
in
five
minutes,
because
we
are
live
streaming
this
if
you
wanna,
go
out
and
take
a
quick
break
or
get
something
to
drink.
Just
go
do
that
during
the
schedule
we
don't
have
breaks
until
lunch
built
into
the
schedule.
A
Our
next
discussion
is
going
to
be
focused
on
the
defy
ecosystem
and
it's
going
to
be
hosted
by
megan
knapp.
So
if
you
need
a
bathroom
break
or
something
else
feel
free
to
go
right
now
we
got
five
minutes
till
the
next
session,
but
please
come
back
relatively
quietly
because
we'll
be
literally
streaming,
this
live
and
we
don't
want
to
miss
anything
so.
A
A
A
A
A
Okay,
everybody,
so
thanks
for
coming
back,
I
always
I
take
it
as
a
compliment
when
people
go
to
the
bathroom
at
our
events
and
they
come
back.
I
really.
I
really
appreciate
that.
We
now
have
an
amazing
panel
on
the
accelerating
acceleration
of
d5
and
the
whole
ecosystem
to
support
that
our
panel
is
gonna,
be
led
and
everyone
else
will
be
introduced
by
the
inevitable
megan
navs.
Thank
you,
oh
thank
you.
I
I
I
I
was
planning
to
get
up
here
and
give
the
definition
of
defy
which
paul
sort
of
thoroughly
went
through.
You
know
in
the
first
part
of
this
morning
to
offer
you
know.
Maybe
something
additional
is
that
and
the
reason
why
I
think
it's
important
is
because
a
lot
of
times
terms
like
blockchain
crypto
d,
fire
almost
used
interchangeably,
and
so
the
interesting
thing
about
d5
is
that
it's
the
creation
and
access
of
financial
products
without
the
use
of
intermediaries,
which
allows
for
the
pillars
that
paul
discussed
like
permissionlessness,
decentralization
and
interoperability.
I
So
this
is
a
very
exciting
field.
You
know
the
advent
of
the
retail
investor
is
upon
us
and
d5
has
a
big
part
of
you
know,
play
playing
a
role
in
that
advent.
We
have
some
great
speakers
with
us
this
morning,
so
I
think
one
thing
that
I
would
say
is
like
these
guys
are,
you
know
the
best
in
this
field,
and
this
is
a
great
learning
opportunity.
So
there
are
no
stupid
questions.
Please
feel
free
to
ask
questions.
We'll
have
a
slice
of
time
for
it.
I
At
the
end,
our
first
speaker
comes
from
my
one
of
my
professional
alumni
consensus,
john
walpert,
from
we'll
be
talking
about
baselining
syncing,
workflows
between
different
counterparties.
So
come
on
up
john,
I
think
it's
john
first
everybody.
First,
okay,
everyone
come
on
up.
A
J
J
Paul
and
team
were
the
you
know,
along
with
microsoft,
who
was
helped
as
a
catalyzing
agent
for
this
work
was
the
we
consensus
and
and
ernest
young
were
the
the
founding
members,
along
with
microsoft
of
the
baseline
protocol
and
I'll
be
talking
about
that
in
a
little
bit
but
paul,
I
think
you
know
I'm
gonna
come
in
after
you
after
the
this
event
to
to
ask
that
you
and
your
team
do
the
next
baseline
slide
deck,
because
you
are
great
at
it
and
he
gave
me
a
really
good
tee
up
for
my
talk,
because
earlier
you
might
have
remember.
J
I
might
remember
paul
saying
that
that
he's
tragically
optimistic-
and
I
think
that
shakespearean
style-
I
am
comedically
pessimistic
in
that.
If
I
you
know,
a
shakespearean
tragedy
starts
out
positive
and
goes
tragic
and
a
shakespearean
comedy
starts
out
negative
and
goes
positive,
and
that's
what
I'm
gonna
try
to
do
today.
So
I'm
gonna.
I
intend
to
be
shocking
for
you,
I
intend
to
say
some
negative
things
and
then
I'm
gonna
start
saying
some
positive
things.
J
I
like
to
think
of
my
creative
process
as
find
the
stupid
and
then
unstupid
it
right.
So
that's
what
I
think
the
process
was
behind
the
baseline
protocol.
We
started
with
the
idea
that
for
companies
certainly
mature
ones,
the
use
of
blockchain
the
way
we
were
thinking
about
it
in
2015
was
kind
of
stupid.
It
was
kind
of
not
a
good
idea.
There
are
no
stupid
questions,
but
there
are
stupid
answers
and
I
love
stupid
answers
because
they
get
you
two
smart
answers
right.
J
So
there
are,
you
know
if
you've
ever
been
in
a
a
brainstorming
session
and
somebody
says
no
killer
phrases,
no
kill
phrases.
You
know
say
that
this
is
dumb
and
then
say,
but
it
wouldn't
be.
If
and
then
somebody
else
gets
to
say,
but
that's
dumb,
but
it
wouldn't
be.
If
you
do
that
five
times,
you'll
have
a
patent
like
every
single
time
or
at
least
an
invention,
and
so
that's
what
we
did
with
the
baseline
protocol.
We
said
blockchains,
don't
scale
and
I'll
probably
take
issue.
J
You
know
I
need
about
10
billion
transactions,
either
a
day
or
an
hour,
depending
on
where
what
numbers
you're
looking
at
to
handle
just
b2b
transactions
or
events
in
the
world,
globally
10
billion
an
hour
or
a
day
depending
on
how
you
batch
them.
That's
a
lot
block
chains.
Singletons
specifically
do
not
scale
to
be
that
big.
You
could
have
a
cassandra
database
shorted
to
the
nines,
with
no
consensus
algorithm,
it's
not
going
to
scale
to
handle
that
kind
of
load.
It's
not
the
world
computer.
J
You
cannot
run
business
logic
and
transactions
and
events
and
back-end
services
on
a
blockchain
directly
without
giving
up
two
important
things:
one
surveillance
resistance,
the
closer
you
get
to
tamper
resistance,
which
a
public
blockchain
is
supremely
good
at
the
farther
away.
You
get
from
surveillance,
resistance
and
compartmentalization
and
access
controls.
You
say:
well,
I
can
use
cryptography.
J
No
any
good,
I.t
cso
will
tell
you.
You
need
control
of
the
access
to
the
bits,
as
well
as
encryption
end
to
end
to
be
good
at
it.
Security,
so
blockchains
are
really
bad
at
that.
The
only
thing
slightly
less
bad
at
that
than
that
than
a
public
blockchain.
It's
a
private
blockchain,
but
those
are
also
kind
of
dumb
because-
or
at
least
you
know,
if
you're
going
to
go
for
a
private
blockchain,
why
don't
you
just
go
for
a
private
shared
database?
D
J
Nothing
wrong
with
them.
You
just
need
to
know
what
you're
dealing
with
so
a
private
shared
database.
The
problem
with
those
if
you're
doing
it
in
a
blockchain
pattern
is
that
the
dumbest
administrator
in
your
consortium
of
100
companies
is
going
to
get
hacked
and
make
the
reason
why
you
did
a
private
blockchain
irrelevant
right.
So
compartmentalization
and
surveillance
resistance
are
not
things
you
would
think
to
do
if
you
were
being
smart
on
an
I.t
basis
with
a
blockchain
data
data
model
or
data
or
pattern
right.
So
that's
the
negative.
J
They
don't
scale
and
they're
bad
at
compartmentalization,
and
companies
really
do
need
compartmentalization.
How
many
people
here
really
want
your
competitor,
even
if
you're
in
a
startup?
Do
you
want
your
competitor
with
a
good
ai,
to
make
you
on
everything
where
you're,
where
your
inventory
is?
Who
are
your
business
relationships?
What
what
are
what
your
discounting
policies
are?
Do
you
want?
J
You
know
your
competitors
to
know
that,
because,
if
you
put
it
on
a
blockchain
which
I've
often
said
is
kind
of
like
a
digital
nudist
colony,
public
beach
versus
private
beach
right,
so
a
public
beach
is
a
public
blockchain.
They're
gonna
make
you
they're
gonna
find
you
out
I'm
going
to
I
recently
two
years
ago
we
did
an
nft
project
where
we
said
where
we
we
had
a
couple
of
our
friends.
J
Buy
these
nfts.
Two
years
later,
a
couple
of
us
went
back
and
looked
and
we're
looking
right
at
what
those
guys
wallets
have
in
them,
and
I
know
who
they
are
right,
so
you
can
say:
well
you
go
through
a
mixer,
but
then
you've
got
the
fbi
on
your
case.
There's
do
you
really
want
your
bank
account
to
be
known
to
everybody
that
you've
transacted
with?
I
don't
think
so.
So
there's
some
real
problems
with
compartmentalization.
J
So
that's
the
button,
but
this
is
this
isn't
doesn't
make
sense
the
way
we
were
thinking
about
in
2015.
Specifically,
we
were
thinking
about
blockchains
as
fancy
databases,
fancy
back-end
systems,
they're,
not
they're,
not
good.
At
that
you're
not
going
to
have
your
back
end,
be
a
blockchain
you're
going
to
have
a
back
end,
be
a
data
system.
A
database
databases
are
very
good
technology
shouldn't,
throw
them
out.
J
J
My
ar
system,
my
accounts,
receivable
systems
and
dynamics.
Your
accounts
payable
system
is
in
sap.
Now
we've
already
kind
of
solved
the
e-invoicing-
or
you
know
the
the
data,
consistency
problem
or
the
data
model
or
data
structures
problem
is
you
know
the
api
economy
kind
of
dealt
with
that?
So
we
can
say
yeah,
you
know
the
fields
headers
in
mind.
I
can
translate
to
the
field
headers
in
your
in
your
database,
so
that
was
kind
of
problem
number
one
right.
I've
got
comparable
information.
J
I
have
a
database
that
has
f
first
name
last
name
and
middle
name.
Your
database
has
f
name
and
l
name
and
doesn't
have
a
middle
name
field.
I've
got
to
do
some
translating
that's.
We've
been
dealing
with
that
for
a
number
of
years
and
we
should
really
get
on
with
data
hygiene
and
not
be
dazzling
ourselves
with
oh
we'll
solve
it
with
blockchain.
J
No,
you
actually
have
to
solve
it
with
just
good
discipline
and
good
data
hygiene
practices,
and
so
we're
on
that
journey,
and
sometimes
I
worry
about
blockchain
in
that
regard-
is
to
say:
oh
well,
you
know
the
blockchain.
Is
this
panacea?
Where
we're
going
to
solve
these
problems
and
get
transparency?
No
right.
You
still
need
to
have
good
data
hygiene.
J
Sorry
right
and
you're
not
going
to
put
all
this
data
on
blockchains
because
fun
fact
you
know
already
these,
the
private
blockchain
consortium
are
finding
themselves
losing
members,
because
why
the
reasons
why
members
didn't
want
to
put
their
data
in
a
shared
database
was
are
the
same
reasons
today
and
they've
stopped
being
dazzled
by
the
word
blockchain
and
they're.
Saying
oh
wait
a
minute!
No,
I
don't
really
want
all
of
my
private
information
in
your
date
in
your
shared
database.
J
No!
No!
Thank
you.
Oh
you're,
not
putting
me
on
stage
in
vegas
with
the
ceo
of
ibm
anymore.
Okay,
then,
then,
maybe
I'll,
I'm
out
right,
we
didn't,
we
didn't
solve
anything.
We
just
changed
the
names
yeah.
You
know
and
I
think
that's
where
again
that's
the
problem
solution.
J
We
can
use
blockchain
in
nearly
everything
in
business.
If
we
ask
it
to
do
almost
nothing,
that
is,
we
ask
it
to
be
our
tamper
resistance
system
for
our
data.
I've
got
an
account.
I've
got
an
invoice
that
you
and
I
need
to
be
sure
is
the
same
invoice.
I've
got
it
in
in
microsoft,
dynamics
or
netsuite.
You've
got
it
in
sap
or
or
any
or
or
whatever
you
have
it
in.
We
can
use
blockchains
and
tokenization,
but
tokenization,
based
on
the
old
idea
of
what
tokenization
was,
which
is
computer.
J
Science
is
a
hash
when
we,
when
we
talk
about
tokenizing
information,
we're
talking
about
hashing
information
right,
that's
what
it
used
to
mean
now,
it's
prc,
20s
and
stuff.
Now
it
used
to
mean
hash
a
piece
of
information,
and
now
you
have
a
token
of
that
information
that
cannot
be
rendered
into
the
original
information
right.
That's
the
cool
thing
about
hashing,
okay!
So
I'm
gonna
is
this
oh
yeah,
so
I'm
gonna
pause
for
three
minutes
and
ex
and
let
our
brand
new
movie,
which
is
being
premiered
right
now,
never
been
seen
before.
K
Look
there
know
what
that
is
why
it's
a
brand
new
piece
of
information
hi
there
little
one,
I
think
I'll
call
you
bit
bit
is
important
bit-
represents
real
value,
real
things.
We
better
put
you
somewhere
safe
little
bit.
There
you
go
into
your
own,
secure
information
management
system
run
by
the
company
that
loves
you.
K
It
used
to
be
that
bit
could
live
its
whole
life
comfortably
inside
its
own
walled
garden
inside
one
company
today
bits
real
power
is
how
it's
shared
between
different
companies,
letting
them
automate
and
synchronize
their
operations
to
produce
goods
and
services
together
forbid
to
do
its
job.
It
needs
to
make
sure
that
everyone
has
the
same
bits.
Somehow
every
copy
of
bit
needs
to
be
in
sync
with
the
others,
but
here's
the
thing
about
bits:
it's
easy
to
change,
one
without
changing
the
other
copies
running
on
other
machines.
K
K
Now
big
companies
with
a
lot
of
cash
to
spare,
have
known
for
years
how
to
keep
bit
from
running
amok,
but
they
all
involved
either
making
one
machine
the
primary
source
of
truth
or
spending
capital
on
dedicated
integration
machines.
All
these
methods
created
more
information
silos
to
manage
what
a
mess
poor
little
bit.
A
different
approach
is
to
keep
bits
in
sync
in
a
loosely
coupled
way.
K
All
the
bits
have
to
do
is
subscribe
to
the
same
spot
on
a
common
bulletin
board
and
they
can
be
sure,
they're
updating
together
as
they
should
a
special
cryptographic
symbol
called
a
proof
is
placed
on
the
board
so
that
bit
can
stay
in
sync
without
exposing
any
information
to
anyone
else.
That
may
have
access
done
right.
It's
impossible
for
observers
to
know
who
is
depositing
proofs
on
the
bulletin
board
or
even
to
discover
rates
of
actual
activity.
K
There's
nothing
new
about
this
design
pattern,
but
until
now,
companies
had
to
spend
capital
to
set
up
these
proprietary
bulletin
boards
for
every
new
set
of
partners.
That's
expensive,
unlike
those
old
bespoke
bulletin
boards,
the
public
blockchain
is
supremely
tamper.
Resistant
which
means
bit
doesn't
have
to
worry
about
someone
changing
or
deleting
the
proof
it's
using
to
stay
in
sync,
and
remember
it
does
this
without
putting
any
actual
information
on
any
kind
of
blockchain
the
industry
standard
for
using
the
public
blockchain.
J
So
a
a
very
talented
designer,
andrea
lee
and
her
crew
built
that
funny
fun
fact.
Andrea
lee
built
the
first
hyperledger
explainer
years
ago
and
as
some
of
you
may
know,
I
was
one
of
the
founders
of
hyperledger
and
ibm
blockchain
and
then
saw
the
light
and
went
again:
hey
that's
kind
of
a
dumb
idea.
I
don't
mind
my
ideas
being
dumb
and
and
then
we
said
well,
but
what
would
make
him?
What
would
make
this?
Not
so
dumb
and
that's
where
paul
and
I
have
kind
of
gone
so
that
that
was.
J
We
should
nft
that
I
suppose
so
and
I'll
talk
about
nfts
in
a
minute.
Maybe
andrea
can
make
a
few
bucks
off
of
that.
But
it'll
be
fun
for
me.
So
let's
talk
about
the
baseline
protocol.
J
Okay,
who
here
are,
are
working
not
on
blockchain
but
in
corporate
information
systems?
Yeah.
Okay,
all
right!
I'm
talking
to
you
then
you're,
the
guy
I
want
to
talk
to.
In
fact,
I
I
think
our
the
black
we've
been
talking
a
lot
inside
the
baseline
protocol
community
about
where
do
we
need
to
speak
in
the
future
and
blockchain
events
aren't
really
where
we
need
to
go
from
now
on.
We
need
to
get
boring.
J
We
need
to
be
at
the
ramada
at
the
airport
at
the
ieee
conference,
with
with
five
it
people
that
arguing
about
arcana
that
that
nobody
cares
about
but
runs
the
world.
So
we're
really
transitioning
and
in
fact
I
think,
that's
the
message
I
have
for
everybody
here
is
it's
been
exciting
up
until
now
and
from
here
on
forward?
It's
not
about
exciting.
It's
about
boring,
it's
about
boring
being
the
new
exciting.
J
After
five
six
years
of
hyperbole,
let's
get
boring,
let's
get
to
work
this
stuff
is,
it
will
be
decisions
made
by
a
third
line.
I.T
person,
configuring
a
system
inside
a
company
or
inside
of
a
startup
use
of
blockchain,
will
be
not
something
that's
on
the
slide
deck
for
the
ceo
to
to
examine.
J
Sorry
will
make
the
the
conferences
less
interesting,
maybe,
but
it
will
mean
that
at
that
point,
blockchain
will
be
ubiquitous
and
important.
Just
the
way.
Java
was
years
ago,
java
had
big
giant
crowds
and
then
it
just
became
a
boring
thing
that
we
used
in
the
internet
same
thing
here.
J
So
I
should
say
first
that
the
baseline
protocol
is
not
a
token
scheme
blockchain
product
platform.
It's
none
of
those
things,
it
is
a
standard
and
paul
was
talking
about
standards
a
little
bit
ago.
I
think
that
is
what
you
have
to
understand
is
that
we
are
building
a
standard
in
the
oasis
standards
body,
which
is
a
venerable
old.
I
think
34
year
old
standards,
organization
behind
sgml
and
mqtt
and
amqp,
and
has
anybody
heard
of
these
things?
J
No
good,
that's
where
we
are
and
there's
a
reason
it's
useful,
not
exciting,
right,
mqtt
and
amqp
and
ee
invoicing
standards.
These
are
the
things
that
you
know,
folks
that
really
make
the
world
run,
spend
their
time
on
and
that's
where
blockchain
is
moving.
So
we
have
now
a
standard
that
it
was.
The
draft
was
finished
last
week
and
now
is
going
to
ratification,
oasis
and
ultimately
out
through
iso
or
ieee,
and
that
this
standard
says
that.
J
J
There's
a
big
project
that
coca-cola
is
running
where
they're
they
have
a
fabric
system
being
run
as
a
fancy
database,
and
then
they
have
sap
systems
and
other
companies
and
other.
You
know,
I
think
quickbooks
and
other
kinds
of
systems
and
they
need
to
baseline
them.
So
they've
got
records
in
their
fabric
system.
They
have
records
in
sap,
they
have
records
in,
they
have
records
and
quickbooks
and
they
need
to
maintain
consistency
and
state.
J
Basically,
state
synchronization,
so
block
baseline
protocol
is
a
way
of
using
the
blockchain
to
ensure
the
tamper
resistance
of
proofs
that
are
used
to
prove
that
you
and
I
have
the
same
record
and
that
the
rules
that
we
use
to
change
those
records
state
changes
are
done
in
a
consistent
fashion.
Deterministically,
that's
it
that's
what
block
that's
what
the
baseline
protocol
does
the
most
boring
use
of
a
blockchain
ever
conceived?
J
It's
simply
saying:
don't
put
data
on
blockchains,
don't
tokenize
in
the
way
that
sometimes
we
talk
about
tokenize
right,
don't
put
your
your
inventory
on
a
blockchain
put
proofs
that
your
inventory
is
consistent
with
your
counterparty's
idea
about
what
your
inventory
is
on
a
blockchain,
and
you
can
also
then
put
that
to
that
proof
into
say
an
nft.
If
you
want
to
get
into
d5
trading,
in
fact
we're
spinning
out
a
company
that
does
exactly
that
so
yeah,
I
probably
should
go
back
to
that.
J
J
Whether
or
not
any
of
those
records
are
what
your
counterparties
actually
know
too.
So
using
the
baseline
protocols
approach,
it's
not
again,
it's
not
a
platform,
it's
just
an
approach
and
placing
your
proofs
on
a
po
on
either
an
l2
or
the
public
blockchain
itself,
so
that
you
know
that
those
proofs
are
inviolate.
J
We
can
set
that
work
group
up,
there's
a
part
of
the
standard
that
that
defines
how
you
do
that,
and
you
can
implement
that
in
anything
you
want,
you
know,
there's
no,
there's
no
vendor
lock
and
you
don't
have
to
use
a
particular
blockchain
or
a
particular
platform
solution.
Although
there
is
a
company
called
provide
and
another
company
called
unibrite
that
have
really
jumped
out
in
front
of
this
stuff.
J
So
if
you
want
a
baseline
stuff
today,
the
closest
thing
to
a
compliant
system
for
doing
that
is
called,
provide,
provide
dot,
network
or
provide
systems
provide
that
services.
Thank
you
and
they've
just
put
out
a
new
l2
called
base
ledger,
which
is
kind
of
interesting,
because
it's
very
limited
l2
it
doesn't
you
can't
run
trend,
you
can't
run
tokens
or
anything
on
that
all
you
can
do
it's
basically
just
a
big
bag
of
proofs
in
merkle
trees.
J
That's
all
it
is,
and
then
they
anchor
every
one
of
those
back
to
the
ethereum
maintenance
through
zkcc
rule
ups.
So
you
have
it's
very
expensive,
extraordinarily
expensive
and
the
cost
for
a
company
to
utilize.
It
is
in
fiat
and
doesn't
change
unless
the
governance
body
increases
the
fee,
but
it
doesn't
go
up
or
down
based
on
the
cost
of
any
particular
token,
which
is
kind
of
important
for
it
departments
that
don't
want
to
have
to
have
a
finance
degree
in
order
to
run
their
I.t
stack
right.
J
So
I
kind
of
like
that
about
this
base
ledger
idea,
I'm
sure
it
won't
be
the
only
baseline,
compliant
l2,
but
right
now
it's
the
first,
and
so
we
should
probably
give
them
credit
for
that.
I,
like
the
fact,
also
that
standards
often
happen
this
way.
Big
companies
like
eny
and
even
consensus
and
microsoft,
this
little
company
just
flanks
us
just
jumps
right
out
in
front
of
it-
takes
the
leadership
position
from
all
of
us,
and
now
we've
got
to
dance
to
their
team.
J
So
now
we're
playing
catch
up,
which
is,
I
think,
that
often
happens
and
and
good
on
them.
So
that's
that's
how
the
baseline
protocol
effectively
works
and
what
is
it
going
to
do
it's
going
to
reduce
these
kinds
of
screw-ups?
So
what
is
my
pitch
to
a
cio?
Hey?
You
need
to
baseline
your
systems
so
that
you
have
fewer
screw-ups
between
you
and
your
counterparties
say
I'm
at
best
buy
or
I'm
a
supplier
to
best
buy,
and
I
get
a
call
from
the
head
merch
that
says
hey.
Where
is
that
and
boy?
J
Where
is
that
shipment?
It's
supposed
to
be
on
our
dock
today
and
I
say:
well,
my
system
says
it's
supposed
to
be
there
two
weeks
from
now
and
the
merch
says:
well,
I
don't
care
what
your
system
says.
Mine
says
it's
today
and
if
you
want
to
keep
doing
business
with
us,
you
will
put
it
you'll
get
it
here.
Tomorrow
and
that'll
cost
me
10
million
or
a
bunch
of
make
good,
that's
a
real
economic
impact
right.
J
So
in
this
case
you'd
say
well,
I
got
a
proof
on
the
main
net
that
says
or
backed
by
the
mainnet.
That
says
that
you-
and
I
at
least
when
we
did
this
deal,
had
the
same
information
and
it's
two
weeks
from
now.
Now
they
can
still
bully
you
into
it,
but
at
least
you
have
a
little
bit
more
recourse
and
redress
right.
J
So
the
yeah
effectively
we've
gone
to
private
business
logic,
the
problems
with
blockchain,
as
I've
discussed.
You
know
private
business
logic,
it's
hard
to
keep
private
the,
not
just
the
data,
but
the
business
logic
that
transforms
data.
You
don't
want
to
put
on
a
blockchain
either
and
smart
in
in
the
clear,
smart
contracts.
You
can
use
things
like
nightfall,
which
are
very
cool,
and
I
really.
K
J
Impressed
with
with
starlight
and
the
team
behind
that
best
presentation,
I've
ever
heard
on
on
crypt
on
on
deep
cryptography
by
megan
or
enderwood
miranda.
J
Sorry,
it
doesn't
say
that
so
yeah,
so
you
know
public
blockchain
adoption
what
the
baseline
protocol
is
yeah,
so
it
it's
grown
quite
a
bit.
There's
over
a
thousand
people,
just
in
the
slack
channel
and
and
and
at
this
point
you
can
in
production,
go
to
baseline
dash
protocol.org
get
involved
with
the
community,
sponsor
the
community
help
with
the
standard
get
on
the
the
reference
reference
implementations
baseline.
J
Your
systems,
sap,
is
in
there
now
day
to
day
helping
with
the
standard,
and
I'm
I'm
confident
that
over
time
you
know,
you'll
see
systems
like
sap
just
come
out
of
the
box
baseline
compliant
and
as
we
do
that,
what
do
we
have?
We
have
cross
company
synchronization
universal
data,
sync,
so
again,
pretty
boring
way
of
changing
the
names
right,
not
blockchain.
You
know
we're
in
blockchain
everything
we're
going
to
nft
everything.
No
universal
data,
sync
where
blockchain
is,
is
providing
tamper
resistance
and
that's
it
yeah.
I
Awesome.
Thank
you
so
much
john
lots
of
like
a
stack
of
questions
now
for
you,
but
before
we
get
into
the
question
and
answer
we
have
dean
and
hamza
from
polygon,
which
is
a
layer.
Two
solution
on
ethereum
here
to
talk
about
composability.
F
Awesome
it's
my
you
hear
me.
Everyone
hear
me
yeah,
okay,
cool!
It's
on
all
right,
we're
cool,
yeah,
speaking
well,
cool!
Thank
you
guys
for
coming
out.
Thank
you
paul
for
setting
this
up.
Sandeep
really
wanted
to
be
here,
so
he
got
caught
up
with
some
travel
issues,
so
you
have
myself
and
my
colleague
hamza
here.
What's
up
guys,
my
name
is
dean
thomas.
F
I
am
the
head
of
institutions
at
polygon
just
for
a
quick
show
of
hands
who
here
has
played
around
with
metamask
and
has
done
a
little
bit
of
d5
stuff.
Okay,
so
we've
got
a
good
career.
How
many
of
you
guys
know
who
we
are
polygon?
Portland
north
mountain?
Oh.
F
And
so,
basically
we
came
up
with
matic,
which
just
eventually
became
polygon
and
the
same
transactions
that
right
now.
Let's
say
you
move
from
one
wall
to
another.
Ethereum
that
costs
you
a
hundred
dollars
in
each
gas
will
cost
you
less
than
a
penny
on
our
network.
So
on
a
practical
sense,
when
I
talk
with
institutions,
borrow
lend
protocols,
for
example,
one
that
will
not
be
named.
F
For
example,
they
told
me
and
say:
hey,
listen,
dean,
we're
doing
everything
based
on
ethereum
right
now,
and
it's
costing
us
millions
dollars
every
single
day
in
p,
l
just
to
cover
the
free
withdrawal
deposits
for
our
customers.
So
I
was
like
all
right.
If
you
move
you
guys
over
to
polygon,
how
much
would
it
cost
and
they
spent
a
week?
Did
the
calculation
come
back
and
the
exact
number
was
300
and
I
was
like
well
okay,
so
you
went
from
spending
a
million
dollars
every
day
and
to
cover
these
costs,
and
it's
only
200.
F
That's
seems
like
it
makes
sense
right.
So
in
a
nutshell,
and
I'm
not
as
smart
as
these
guys
on
stage,
but
very
practically
speaking,
that's
what
polygon
is
that's
what
we're
looking
to
do,
we're
looking
to
basically
help
scale
ethereum
any
way
we
can.
We
can
so
we
have
a
quick
presentation
here
about
d5.
F
We
basically
wanted
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
why
d5
is
innovating
so
quickly.
So
like
some
of
these
guys-
and
you
know,
eny
ecosystem-
I
was
a
traditional
finance
guy
as
well.
F
I
worked
at
goldman
sachs
and
then
blackstone
private
equity
before
I
got
into
crypto,
but
what
you'll
notice
in
crypto
is
that
a
month
in
crypto
fuels
like
a
year
and
a
half
in
real
life
world
and
part
of
that
is,
you
know,
24
7
trading
of
tokens,
but
also
you
know
it's
just
so
fast
because
of
something
called
composability.
So
for
those
people.
F
Obviously
there's
a
lot
of
smart
people
in
the
audience,
I'm
just
making
sure
that
less
intelligent
folks,
like
myself,
still
understand
what's
going
on
in
computer
science
and
engineering,
there's
a
concept
called
abstraction,
which
is
basically
the
idea
that
you
don't
necessarily
need
to
know
how
to
derive
an
algorithm
from
the
bottom
up
to
use
it
effectively
to
a
large
extent
and
in
the
real
world.
An
example
of
this
would
be
driving
a
car
right.
F
So
I
would
say
I
don't
want
to
make
this
claim,
but
I
think
a
large
portion
of
us
wouldn't
be
able
to
invent
a
car
from
scratch
if
we
had
to
right
now,
but
we
all
kind
of
can
know
how
to
drive
a
car
right.
We
can
get
step
in.
We
can
move
the
gear
to
whatever
needs
and
get
us
from
point
a
to
point
b
and
that's
just
a
very
textbook
example
of
abstraction.
F
You
can
use
the
car
very
effectively
or
almost
as
effectively
as
the
guy
who
invented
the
car
without
actually
knowing
exactly
how
it
works.
So
how
does
this
relate
to
the
d5
and
composability?
So,
basically,
if
you
follow
the
ecosystem,
you
know
the
term
money.
Legos
is
thrown
around
quite
a
bit,
and
this
is
exactly
what
allows
for
such
rapid
innovation,
basically
without
actually
knowing
exactly
how
to
recreate
a
decks
from
scratch.
F
You
can
use
a
well-tested
battle,
proven
dex
to
plug
your
protocol
or
project
on
top
of
it
and
customize
it
to
your
unique
user
base
and
in
that
way,
you're
able
to
very
quickly
advance
test
push
product
out
in
a
way
that
you
know
in
a
legacy
institution
that
is,
you
know
all
custom
and
red
tape
encompassed,
which
you
know
many
large
financial
institutions
currently
are
it's
very,
very
hard
to
to
rapidly
innovate
in
this
way,
especially
in
a
24
7.
F
The
eny
is
the
goldman
sachs
is
the
blackstone
of
the
world
and
the
protocols
that
we
currently
represent,
whether
it's
polygon,
whether
it's
ethereum
any
of
these
projects
that
are
building
and
trying
to
push
the
decentralized
world
that
we
believe
in
and
I'm
gonna
let
hamza
who
leads
our
d5
efforts,
who
is
much
more
intelligent
than
I
am
talk
more
about
the
technical
piece.
M
Thanks
thanks
dean.
Thank
you,
everyone
for
coming
out
and
and
yeah
a
little
bit
about
polygon,
as
as
dean
mentioned,
and
especially
about
d5,
the
most
powerful
thing.
So
a
little
bit
about
myself,
I've
been
taking
care
of
leading
defectivities
at
polygon
for
the
past
six
seven
months
now
and
and
yeah
d5
is
mainly.
Although
I
come
from
a
technical
background.
M
M
There
was
this
defy
summer,
which
I'm
not
sure
how
many
people
know
or
were
aware
at
that
time,
but
there
was
this
boom
of
of
financial
products
being
built
on
chain
on
ethereum
on
ethereum
main
chain
that
brought
out
the
d5
summer
sometime
around
august,
exactly
one
year
from
today
last
year.
So
with
this
we
we,
but
then
we
saw
a
lot
of
interesting
projects
being
being
built
around.
So
this
is
around
this.
M
So
this
is
basically
like
a
a
lego
system
where
you
have
certain
things
in
the
in
the
on
the
bottom,
which
actually
makes
what
polygon
or
ethereum
or
any
public
blockchain
usable
in
a
sense
that
you
can
build
stuff
on
that
you
can
transact.
You
can
build
different,
complex,
complex
financial
products
on
top
of
basic
basic
things
like
a
lending
market,
just
a
quick
show
of
fans.
Have
you
guys
have
the
people
who
use
polygon
earlier?
Have
you
used
any
of
these
any
of
the
names
here
like
ave?
M
Pull
together?
Oh
that's!
That's
good!
That's
cool!
So
yeah
just
going
from
bottom
to
top!
So
if
you
go
to
coinbase,
for
example,
which
is
a
because
or
coinbase
or
any
any
custodial
application,
you
need
on-ramps
or
you
need
to
be
able
to
buy
crypto
via
credit
card,
or
you
go
from
from
your
hardware
wallet
to
your
on-chain
or
your
on-chain
custodial
wallets.
But
so
those
are
some
things
which
we
have
at
the
bottom
layer.
M
How
you
get
into
on-chain
activities
via
bridges
via
credit
card
via
wallets,
like
coinbase
wallet,
for
example.
Then
you
have
a
money
market
on
top,
so
money
market
essentially
is
like
a
bank
simple,
like
a
bank
but
a
non-custodial
permission:
less
transparent
bank
like
a
retail
bank.
So
there
are
money
markets
holding
over
three
billion
dollars
on
polygon
and
over
30
billion
dollars
on
ethereum,
probably
more
probably
more,
then
we
have
something
called
a
stable
coin
issuer
which
essentially
is
stable.
M
Coins
are
basically
one
to
one
dollar
like
usdc
die
those
things,
then
you
have
a
exchange
where
you
can
so
exchanges,
the
most
important
part
of
an
exchange
and
why
they
are
the
most
important
thing
in
d5
is
that
they
are
permissionless.
No
one
holds
your
crypto,
the
whole
philosophy
of
crypto.
Being
you
don't
hold?
M
If
you
hold
your
crypto,
you
have
to
hold
your
keys
or
you
don't
hold
your
crypto
and
the
whole
point
was
to
be
a
permissionless
coin
exchange
which
which
allows
you
to
swap
between
a
asset,
to
b
asset
eth
to
btc
btc
to
usdc
or
whatever.
Then
people
got
smart.
People
started
building
leveraged
products
on
top
of
money
markets,
so
you
can
lend
you
can
do
3x
of
of
trading
with
with
the
amount
of
risk
involved.
Then
the
decentralized
exchanges,
then
more
financial,
more
structured
products
like
fixed,
yield,
credit
defaults,
ops.
M
These
are
this
is
the
phase
two
of
d5.
That
I'm
particularly
very
interested
in
is
about
the
structured
products
being
built
on
existing
legos
like
like
the
money
markets,
so
you
can
build
fixed
yield
products
you
can
build,
which
is
a
huge
huge
thing
in
the
in
the
traditional
world
fixed
deal
assets.
M
You
can
build
great
default
swaps,
you
can
build
options,
futures
all
sorts
of
derivatives
on
top
of
smart
contracts,
which
are
already
present
so
so
the
beauty
here
is
that
no
one
can
stop
you
from
using
them
on
an
architecture
level
like
you
can
hook
into
these
contracts,
you
can
deposit
assets
you
can
generate
yield.
M
The
yield
is
the
biggest
thing
in
d5.
You
can
generate
yield
from
any
of
these
protocols.
You
can
build
a
protocol
on
top
of
them
and
generate
the
underlying
yield
as
a
layer,
2
or
a
layer.
3,
on
top
of
them,
no
one
can
stop
you.
It's
permissionless,
it's
like
a
bazaar
that
you
can
go
out
and
meet
as
many
people
and
build
your
own
shop
and
something
like
that.
Then
we
have
aggregators
so
think
of
it
then,
like
like
booking.com
or
something
that
aggregates
all
suites,
all
sort
of
tools
underlying.
M
Then
you
have
insurance
because
insurance
on
top
of
lending
protocols
on
top
of
hacks
or
any
any
exploits
that
so
insurance
is
a
big
thing
which
are
risk
underwriters,
so
very
interesting
space
in
that
in
that
space
as
well,
then
you
have
one
very
interesting
thing:
is
asset
management
which
is
think
of
it,
like
etfs,
but
self-balancing
etfs.
So
people
like
money
managers
don't
actively
manage
them,
I
mean,
although
they
can,
but
it's
usually
a
set
of
smart
contracts
that
manage
them
on
the
basis
of
some
rules.
M
Some
that
you
know
I
want
each
at
least
as
15
of
my
portfolio
or
I
want
btc.
As
I
don't
know,
like
10
of
my
portfolio
and
then
you
manage
other
d5
coins,
other
things
and
people
build
people
build.
So
we
have.
We
have
a
couple
of
them
on
polygon,
bunch
of
them
on
ethereum.
M
Then
you
have
something
like
I
said:
derivatives
which
are
probably
going
to
be
the
biggest
thing
just
my
my
two
gui
two
sats
on
this
is
that
derivatives
could
be
the
next
big
thing,
because
that's
what
runs
everything
interact:
five,
pretty
much
risk
risk
assessment,
so
futures
options,
both
american
european
and
bunch
other
bunch
of
other
things
can
be
built.
Then
synthetics
and
by
synthetics
I
mean,
like
volatility,
tokens
vix
more.
M
Is
synthetics
means
to
bring
any
off-chain
data,
so,
for
example,
there
are
a
couple
of.
There
is
one
project
that
is
bringing
house
price
houses,
wallet,
house
pricing
volatility
on
chain,
tokenizing
them
on
chain,
and
people
are
able
to
use
users
collateral
speculate
on
it
by
short,
that's
up
to
them,
so
they
are
building
that
infrastructure.
M
Then,
of
course,
because
all
this
is
a
bunch
of
new
stuff.
So
there
are
analytics
tools
that
simplify
those
that
bring
on
chain
data
and
make
it
easier
easy
to
understand.
Then,
of
course,
you
have
wallets
and
the
more
user
facing
facing
ones
and
yeah
these,
oh
yeah.
I
missed
this
but
yeah.
This
is
how
layer,
zero
layer,
one
layer
two-
and
this
is
how
complexity
goes
up
to
the
top
and
area
layer.
M
Zero
is
a
lot
of
interesting
product
has
been
happening
and
where
are
our
chain
polygon
or
ethereum
or
xdi
or
arbitrarium?
These
these
chains
come
into
picture
public
blockchains
come
into
picture
so
yeah
this.
This
is
so
to
to
be
able
to
facilitate
you
know
stuff
being
built
on
blockchains.
It's
just
not
enough
to
have
to
be
able
to
write
contracts,
but
you
need
to
have
like
an
ancillary,
tooling,
periphery,
tooling
bunch
of
it
to
allow
people
to
build
on
top.
M
So
there
are
def,
tooling,
which
consensus
has
consensus,
and
different
projects
have
been
pioneering
in
infuria,
like
all
of
these
all
of
these
tooling.
That
allows
developers
to
easily
build
so
think
of
it
like
like
vs
code
in
the
real
world,
sort
of
vs
code
or
or
more
cloud
based
like
aws.
Those
sort
of
tooling
is
required
for
any
ecosystem
web
three.
M
So
this
is
what
we
call
web
3
tooling,
which
is
very
very,
I
think,
the
the
first
half
but
on
the
other
side
is,
I
think
one
of
the
biggest
ones
is
oracles.
So
essentially,
what
oracles
are
oracles
is.
M
What
allows
d5
to
exist
is
what
allows
is
what
allows
off-chain
like
real-world
data
to
be
brought
on
chain
in
a
permissionless
manner,
in
a
decentralized
manner,
or
we
would
be
hitting
you
know,
direct
coinbase,
apis
or
binance
apis,
which
is
not,
which
is
not
a
a
good
way
of
bringing
on
change,
bringing
off
chain
data
on
chain.
We
need
to
have
decentralization
in
that.
M
That
is
exactly
where
oracle's
come
into
the
picture,
and
this
is
oracles
are
like
the
bedrock
of
of
every
or
pretty
much
every
d5
application
and
wallets
like
I
said
this
is
how
mobile
wallets
now
now
you
can
interact
with
oleg
on
polygon.
I
can
say
we
have,
I
think,
seven,
eight
big
wallets
integrated.
You
can
buy
crypto
assets
on
your
phone.
You
can
also
put
money
on
those
money
markets
on
the
big
money
markets
on
polygon,
even
on
ethereum
via
these
mobile
wallets.
M
So
that's
that's
pretty
cool,
and
that
is
our
vision,
for
you
know
d5
for
all
every
that's
pretty
much
everyone
every
every
blockchain's
vision.
I
think
we
have
hit
that
phase
of
like
the
s-curve,
which
is
which
is
pretty
interesting
and
yeah,
like
I
said,
on-ramps
like
buying
crypto
via
credit,
why
credit
card
say
a
little
bit
about
about
polygon,
so
we
are
we're
one
of
the
fastest
growing
public
blockchains
out
there
in
the
ethereum
ecosystem.
M
So
we
are
ethereum
scaling
solution
and
what
that
means
is,
I
think,
paul-
and
everyone
just
mentioned
that
ethereum
saw
a
whole
lot
of
product
market
fit
so
to
say,
especially
with
d5
and
now
with
nfts,
but
the
main
chain
is
sort
of
getting
congested
with
with
with
with
a
lot
of
different
reasons,
but
but
solutions
like
polygon,
arbitrarium
and
these
these
things
have
have
been-
are
the
solutions
to
scale
ethereum
and
bringing
ethereum
to
the
next
next
10
million
50
million
users
on
chain
and
allow
these
financial
democratization
of
financial
tools.
M
We
have
a
bunch
of
we
have
about
700.
I
think
I
think
this
is
an
old.
Oh,
this
is
definitely
an
old
number.
We
have
around
700
apps
d,
apps,
basically
decentralized
applications
running
on
polygon,
and
I
can
say,
with
the
surety
500
of
them
are
d5.
I
know
them
for
a
fact:
500
applications
just
with
d5
seven
million
transactions.
I
know
some
people
are
not
like
enterprises
not
require.
M
We
definitely
require
a
bunch
multitudes
of
more
transaction
throughput,
but
I
I
like
to
think
we
like
to
think
of
it.
As
starts
as
a
toy
blockchains
and
d5
start
start.
Blockchain
essentially
started
as
a
toy.
D5
was
a
toy,
and
now
we
are
hitting
that
sort
of
like
a
product
market
fit
where
we
might
move
into
that
s
curve
pretty
soon
so
yeah
we
are
at.
I
think
we
are
evaluated
around
like
14
million.
M
I
don't
remember
the
numbers
right
here,
but
but
yeah
the
main,
the
main
benefit
of
scaling
solutions
are
that
they
cost
very
less
for
a
transaction
fees,
and
we
are,
I
think,
thousand
x
or
I
think
5000
x,
cheaper
to
transact
than
ethereum
maintain
so,
which
is
very
scalable,
which
allows
people
to
transact
and
funny
story
is
that
80
of
the
transactions
on
polygon
are
less
than
500
or
200
200
less
than
80
of
the
transactions,
which
means
that
essentially,
is
retail
focused,
and
that
is
our
vision
of
d5
for
all
and
and
yeah.
M
We
are
doing
a
bunch
of
interesting
things,
other
than
also
just
d5,
which
we're
doing
something
with
ey
and
the
in
the
privacy
phase.
We
have
roll
up
solutions,
which
is
another
more
secure
version
of
of
ethereum
scaling
solutions
and
yeah
bunch
of
other
things.
Is
we
plan
to
be
in
a
multi-chain
world?
You
can
see
in
the
in
the
in
the
diagram
right
over
there
yeah
thanks
for
pretty
much
it
anything
else.
I
Perfect,
okay,
great
so
I
wanted
to
start
off
by
asking
each
of
you
guys
a
question
first
and
then
we
can
open
it
up
to
the
audience
briefly.
So
for
polygon.
I
think
that
there
is
a
mentality
out
there
that
layer,
twos
themselves
will
become
specialized.
I
Do
you
ascribe
to
this
mentality
and
if
so,
where?
What
kind
of
specialization
do
you
think
polygon
would
eventually
go
into?
Is
it
institutional?
Is
it
product
specific?
What
do
you
think.
M
Agree
that
some
things
will
be
application
specific
because-
and
that
was
the
whole
point
with
polygon
when
we
rebranded
from
matic
to
polygon,
is
that
we
want
to
be
multifaceted
and-
and
I
totally
agree
to
that-
and
we
are
seeing
trends
come
up
that
that
enterprises
will
build
their
own
chains,
could
probably
build
their
own
chains,
but
especially
in
gaming,
which
which
require
much
higher
throughput
yeah,
and
some
of
those
examples
are
today
with
with
actually
infinity
and
other
other
games,
they're
building
their
own
side
scenes
with
their
own
consensus
with
their
own
security.
M
I
Yeah
so
awesome,
thank
you
yeah.
So
john,
I
really
empathize
during
your
presentation,
because
I
am
like
a
like
work
in
a
profession
that
is
not
very
sexy
in
accounting,
you
know,
and
I'm
one
of
the
people
that
has
to
sit
there
and
match
write
data
between
all
these
different
counterparties.
I
I
wanted
to
see
it
so
if
we're
using
the
baseline
protocol
to
validate
data
between
different
counterparties,
is
there
a
dispute
resolution
mechanism
or
protocol
defined
within
baseline,
or
is
it
something
that's
left
to
each
counterparty?
Oh.
J
Yes,
there
is
yeah,
so
if
you
are
say
you
you,
your
data
gets
out
of
sync
with
your
baseline
proof.
Then
you
have
to
rebase
that
record
right
so
or
or
if
somebody
says
oh
you're
wrong.
We
always
know
who's
right
and
so
is
long
and
and
you
can
always
all
have
a
a
side.
You
know
system
that
is
also
you
know,
maybe
deep,
storing
that
those
those
records
so
that
you
know,
if
both
of
your
the
counterparties
are
all
set.
Ten
of
the
counterparties
lose
their
information.
I
M
Well,
that's,
that's
a
good!
That's
a
really
good
question.
I
think
yeah
for
people
who
don't
know
there
was
recently
we
recently
acquired
hermes,
which
is
a
zk,
so
zero
knowledge
roll
up
company,
it's
probably
in
our
opinion,
the
most
decentralized
solution
out
there
and
the
the
reason
for
that.
The
the
idea
of
there
was
that
we
truly
believe
that
zika
roll-ups
are
the
end
goal
for
for
scaling
ethereum,
because
because
of
multitude
of
reasons
they
don't
have
seventy
withdrawals.
M
They
don't
have
a
bunch
of
other
things,
but
but
yeah
that
is
with
hermes.
The
idea
there
is
to
start
with
payments,
then
slowly
build
out
zkevm
over
the
course
of
next
six
to
nine
months
and
then
move
on
to
like
full-blown
d5
and
other
things
and
hermes
is
just
is
one
of
the
things
that
is
happening
so.
F
Million
dollars
right
so
like
in
in
normal
deal
terms
like
in
the
corporate
world,
it's
very
common
tool
in
the
toolkit.
You
know
whether
it's
debt
equity,
you're,
doing
some
type
of
acquisition
or
or
buyout,
and
I
think
for
polygon.
I
think
we're
very
agnostic
in
the
sense
that
whatever
helps
ethereum,
we
want
to
support
it,
help
it
whether
by
investing
behind
them,
whether
providing
funding,
whether
it's
acquiring
them
and
so
our
measure,
the
first
of
many
to
come.
So
we've
committed
publicly
a
billion
dollars
from
our
treasury
to
do
zero
knowledge,
acquisitions
investment
support.
F
So
our
lawyers
say
we're
not
allowed
to
talk
about
it,
but
there's
some
exciting
stuff
happening.
We
were
supposed
to
actually
talk
about
it
this
week,
but
they
told
us
to
be
our
way
a
little
bit,
but
there's
there's
some
exciting
stuff
happening
in
the
pipeline
and
we're
just
very
proud
and
excited
of
the
team
and
the
hard
work
we've
put
in.
I
J
Does
that
work?
So
the
question
was
in
case
you
can't
those
give
a
use
case
I'll
give
you
two
quick
ones.
One
is
defy
financing
of
invoices
right
so
say
it.
I
want
to
there's
two
levels
of
this.
One
is,
and
this
is
a
company
that
we're
spinning
out
right
now
from
mesh
you'll,
see
this
later
this
year,
where
we
will
buy
your
invoice
if
it's
baselined,
because
we
believe
the
probability
of
it
not
getting
paid
is
significantly
lower.
J
So,
instead
of
the
three
percent
that
some
institutions
charge,
you
not
three
percent
apr
three
percent
on
the
invoice
to
to
give
you
to
get
you
paid
now,
rather
than
45
days
later,
we'll
give
you
that
to
you
for
less
than
a
percent
say
and
we'll
get
you
the
best
cost
of
capital
from
the
d5
protocols.
J
So
there
is
a
d5
join
right,
baselining
isn't
d5
baselining
is
data
data
sync
and
and
state
synchronization,
but
when
you
have
that,
then
you
can
take
that
baseline
proof
pack
it
in
an
nft
ship
it
into
into
a
d5
protocol.
So
that's
one
one
thing.
The
second
thing
is
the
banks
that
say
you're
the
a
factor:
you're
a
you're,
a
a
customer
and
I'm
a
supplier.
J
The
factor
is
gonna
pay
me
now
the
customer
is
gonna.
The
customer's
bank's
gonna
pay
me
the
the
factor
later.
It's
important
that
the
customer's
bank
knows
that
the
factor
paid
me
before
they
paid
them.
J
Imagine
all
the
bank
systems
five
serve
and
all
these
that
were
baseline
compliant.
They
could
simply
drop
those
baseline
proofs
onto
the
public
bulletin
board.
The
customer
can
bank
can
subscribe
to
it,
grab
it
and
and
pay
confidently,
knowing
that
nobody
committed
any
fraud.
The
last
one
is
nfts
at
east
atlanta.
Let
me
go
shameless
plug
eat
atlanta
ethatl.com
in
october,
on
on
the
first,
we
will
be
announcing
a
way
of
doing
nfts
that
are
baselined
and
I
think
in
the
future.
J
J
M
A
I
I
do
have
a
couple
of
comments.
I
I've
got
a
microphone,
so
I
get
to
the
power
of
having
a
microphone
so,
first
of
all
afterwards,
I
have
some
questions
for
you
about
this
airport
hotel,
where
we're
headed
for
future
conferences,
because
I'm
not
on
board.
Okay,.
A
Then,
secondly-
and
thank
you
by
the
way
so
much
for
preparing
that
video-
which
I
think
is
awesome-
and
every
every
corporate,
cio
and
cxo
who
says
I
can't
do
public
blockchains
needs
to
see
it
and
then
secondly,
you
know
this
last
brief
discussion
about
hermes
is
immensely
important
right.
One
of
the
reasons
why
ey
and
polygon
are
so
happy
working
together
and
teaming
on
this
stuff
is
our
number
one.
Engineering
research
priority
for
the
last
five
years
has
been
zero
knowledge
proofs
right.
They
are
the
key
to
scaling.
A
I
A
C
So
I
was,
I
was
talking
to
lamboshi.
While
we
were
sitting
here
and
all
we
do.
Is
we
react
right
so
on
on
reddit
things
start
pouring
into
the
daily
and
over
the
last
few
years
it
was
always
cool
to
see
our
daily
conversation
on
e-finance
gets
like
a
thousand
or
more
comments
a
day,
people
from
all
over
the
industries
and
to
see
the
the
color
and
the
change
and
the
way
things
are
being
done,
especially
on
ethereum
over
the
years,
has
just
been
really
mind
blowing
so
with
each
staker.
C
E
C
He's
right
over
here
ants,
he
told
he
was
like
you're
here
he's
with
the
ethereum
foundation
he's
now
the
new
face
of
our
ethereum,
the
subreddit,
that
is,
the
collective
ethereum
technology
based
subreddit,
and
so
the
three
of
our
subs
work
together
a
lot
to
help
curate,
you
know
good
information
and
some
of
the
information
we
were
talking
about
was
2017
in
the
advent
of
d5
and.
L
E
Everything
that
was
going
on
with
ethereum,
I
mean
you'd
just
pop
into
reddit
and
you'd,
say:
okay.
These
two
is
coming
in
12
months
and
maker.
Dow
did
a
thing,
and
I
mean
now
between
you
know:
d5
nft,
mev
daos
scaling
solutions,
eth2,
which
is
coming
in
less
than
12
months
by
the
way,
but.
E
Meme
is
down
it's
all
ethereum
I
mean
if
you
pick
one
of
those
little
subcategories,
you
still
can't
keep
up
with
everything
happening,
so
it's
just
been
so
exciting
watching,
like
the
explosion
of
activity
and
new
people
coming
into
the
ethereum
space.
C
C
C
You
know
it's
all,
it's
all
amazing
how
much
this
stuff
interoperates
and
everything
like
that.
So
if
you
ever
get
a
chance,
stop
by
say
hi
on
reddit,
if
you're
eath
atlanta,
we
could
put
that
out
there
too
you'll
be
there.
Okay
and
we'll
have
all
that
information
on
our
daily
thread.
We
have
a
sticky
at
the
top
that
lifts
all
that
so
come
to
eat
finance
for
the
daily
head
over
to
our
ethereum
for
just
good
technical
top-level
discussion.
C
There's
a
lot
of
big
brain
activity
in
both
those
rooms
and,
of
course,
the
proof
of
stakes.
I've
read
it.
That
is,
eat
staker.
We
hope
you'll
join
us
sometime
so
yeah.
C
A
Guys
so,
thank
you
guys.
Thank
you
so
much
here's
the
plan.
We
have
about
10
minutes
for
a
break
and
when
we
come
back,
we
are
having
our
second
maintenance
session,
which
is
on
esd.
It's
going
to
be
amazing,
so
hosting
it
and
as
our
moderator
and
keynote,
we
have
michael
casey
chief
content
officer
from
coindesk.
We
then
have
two
incredible:
smart
people,
first
christina
dolan
from
rsa
and
mit
and
then
secondly,
professor
mary
lassidy
from
the
she's,
a
walton
professor
at
the
university
of
arkansas
and
director
of
the
blockchain
center
of
excellence.
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
Birds
on
them-
that
is
our
theme
and
so
that
that's
we
have
a
wide
range
of
attire.
I
think
we
should
probably
open
up
a
shop
for
that,
so
we
are
now
ready
for
our
second
big
panel,
which
is
going
to
be
absolutely
amazing.
We
have
three
incredible
speakers
that
are
going
to
come
up
on
stage
and
take
it
away
from
me,
michael
casey,
the
chief
content
officer
from
coindesk,
christina
dolan
from
rsa
and
mit,
and
professor
mary
lassidy
from
the
university
of
arkansas.
So.
G
G
Okay,
thanks
paul
thanks
everyone,
I'm
sort
of
feeling,
like
I
missed
out
a
little
by
getting
here
a
little
late,
because
that
session
was
fantastic
and
I
always
feel
a
little
guilty
coming
in
at
this
stage
after
the
engineers,
because
you
guys
are
doing
as
john
put
it
the
not
just
the
boring
work
but
the
difficult
work.
G
G
I
I
like
come
high
up,
so
I
mean
the
point
here
is
to
just
give
you
a
framework
to
think
about
these
things,
because
you
know
esg
is,
is
a
big
deal,
it's
a
big
problem,
because
it's
speaking
to
the
biggest
of
problems
that
we
face,
and
so
I
think,
yeah,
that's
what
I'll
be
doing
is
giving
you
this
kind
of
framework
for
things
so
basically
like
what
is
esg
right:
environmental,
social
and
governance.
These
are
references
to
kind
of
these
objectives
that
we
have
as
a
society
right.
G
The
things
that
will,
if
we
get
them
right,
presumably
lead
us
to
some
level
of
sustainability
whereby
humanity
gets
to
collectively
enjoy
in
the
perpetuation
of
us
and
the
planet
right.
What
that
really
speaks
to,
though,
is
a
is
a
concept
that
economists
have
often
talked
about,
which
is
a
public
good
right.
This
idea
that
there
is
these
these
things
that
we
need
right,
clean
air.
It
is
things
like
public
health.
G
It
is
you
know,
democracy
and
human
rights
that,
if
we
didn't
have
them,
we'd
all
be
in
a
bad
shape
and
we
all
tend
to
agree.
Those
are
good
things
right.
The
problem
is,
how
do
we
get
to
pay
for
it
right
who
gets
to
who
pays
for
the
maintenance
of
those
public
goods?
And
how
do
we
organize
ourselves
so
that
we
do
so
right?
G
These
are
the
core
challenges,
and
it's
long
been
understood
that
you
know
we
need
some
sort
of
governance
system
to
do
this,
that
we
need
some
mechanism
by
which
we
all
agree
on
rules,
procedures,
activities
right.
This
is
not
particularly
profound,
but
it's
just
a
really
important
starting
point
to
try
to
understand
why
the
blockchain
could
be
useful
and
all
this
stuff.
So
there
was
a
guy
called
garrett
hardin
who
wrote
this
famous
essay
in
1968
called
the
tragedy
of
the
commons.
Can
I
see
a
show
of
hands
who
knows
the
tragedy
of
the
commons?
G
G
Then
people
would
free
ride,
basically
they'd
go
in
there
and
you
destroy
the
comments
right,
so
basically
harden's,
okay.
This
is
why
we
need
government
to
run
the
environment.
Look
we
wouldn't
be
here.
We
wouldn't
be
having
this
conversation
if
it
weren't
for
the
fact
that
governments
have
actually
failed
dismally
at
this
exercise
and
look.
This
is
just
a
function
of
a
variety
of
problems.
Right
one
is
that
human
beings
and
their
self-interest
mean
that
we
really
don't
do
politics
very
well,
and
maybe
it's
the
structure
of
society
or
whatever.
G
But
basically,
governments
have
not
done
a
particularly
good
job
of
maintaining
our
public
spaces
and
our
public
goods,
which
is
why
we
have
everything
that
we're
here
to
talk
about
climate
change
and
all
these
other
things
right.
But
it's
it's
more
than
just
this
problem
of
the
failure
of
government.
It's
literally
that
the
problems
we're
talking
about
transcend
the
governmental
structures
that
we
have
right.
G
So
climate
change
is
the
classic
one
who
in
fact,
which
government
should
be
in
charge
of
that
right
who,
who
should
set
the
rules
and
who
should
enforce
them
and
if
we
form
a
treaty
which
of
course
is
the
solution
that
we
came
up
with
with
the
you
know
the
paris
accord.
You
know
who
gets
to
enforce
that
treaty.
G
You
know
how
do
we
measure
the
performance
of
each
of
those
different
governments
performances
in
relation
to
this,
and
you
know
again,
how
do
we
enforce
and
how
do
you
enforce
it
at
the
national
level,
at
the
state
level,
at
the
household
level,
at
the
basic
most
local
individual
level,
which
is
really
where
it
has
to
come
down
to?
G
So
you
know,
there's
there's
this
problem
and
I
like
to
think
of
it
as
the
international
tragedy
of
the
commons.
You've
got
developing
countries
like
india
that
are
reluctant
to
agree
to
carbon
reduction
targets,
because
you
know
they
don't
trust
that
developed
nations
are
going
to
hold
up
there
into
the
bargain
right
and
you've
got.
You
know
this.
This
failure
to
to
enforce
the
rules
measurement
is
is
a
core
problem
there.
All
over
the
world.
G
There
are
different
standards,
you're
going
to
hear
from
christina
a
little
in
a
little
while
about
the
multiple
array
of
different
standards
and
governing
bodies,
and
and-
and
you
know
all
of
these
different
measurement
mechanisms
that
sort
of
transcend
the
world
and
what
that
means
for
the
incapacity
for
us
to
actually
coordinate
right.
So
these
are
all
sort
of
colossal
problems,
and
it
is
where
blockchain
comes
in
right.
It's
not
this
is.
G
I
was
very
pleased
to
see
john
point
out
that
you
know
there's
a
lot
of
things
that
blockchain
doesn't
do
in
fact,
there's
only
a
small
thing
that
it
does,
but
it's
I'm
also
very
pleased
very,
very
pleased
that
the
ey
is
is
focused
on
public
blockchains,
because,
as
john
was
saying
as
well,
the
minute
you
go
to
a
private
blockchain.
Ultimately,
this
problem
that
we're
talking
about
like
who
is
in
charge
disappears
which
government
is
going
to
actually
be
able
to
control
things.
G
G
Recording
system
and
how
we
get
there,
but
all
of
you
know
all
it
really
is
the
blockchain
is
an
accounting
system
and
to
say
that
in
those
terms,
might
sound
disparaging
of
accountants,
and
the
last
thing
I
would
want
to
be
is
disparaging
of
accountants
at
an
event
sponsored
by
ey,
but
the
fact
is-
and
those
of
you
who
may
have
seen
my
presentation
before
accounting
actually
is
fundamental
to
civilization.
G
G
I
don't
know
how
many
of
you
know,
but
the
earliest
form
of
writing.
The
cuneiform
form
of
writing
that
was
found
in
mesopotamia
was
done
on
ledgers.
It
was
it
was
these
little
tablets
that
were
ledgers,
they
were
just
a
boring
accounting
of
a
set
of
prices,
for
you
know,
transfer
of
sheep
or
wheat
or
something,
but
without-
and
that's
really
important.
This
speaks
to
how
important
this
capacity
to
keep
records
was
to
civilization
itself,
because
what
it
does
is
creates
a
foundation
of
trust.
G
If
we
can
all
agree
on
a
common
accounting
system-
and
we
can
agree
on
how
we're
going
to
track
the
the
transactions
that
we
build
with
each
other,
then
we
can
start
to
do
things.
We
can
start
to
build
society.
We
can
enter
into
the.
G
You
know
factories,
everything
else,
accounting
is
this
underlying
critical
base
layer
for
this,
but
of
course,
as
you
know,
you
saw
in
the
the
video
from
the
baseline
guys
these
wall
garden
versions
of
accountant
become
very
problematic
when
we
want
to
transcend
all
of
that.
So
again,
this
is
where
blockchains
give
us
an
accounting
framework,
because
now
we've
got
a
system
that
everybody
can
trust,
because
it's
not
controlled
by
any
one
single
entity
right,
it's
a
very
powerful
concept,
and
it's
it's
it's.
G
G
G
I
think
one
way
to
think
about
how
this
public
good
functionality
works
in
a
blockchain
environment
is
to
go
to
the
very
first
blockchain
to
look
at
bitcoin
and
it's
this
is
this.
Is
I
can
talk
a
little
bit
about
why?
I
think
a
lot
of
the
debate
around
bitcoin
and
the
environment
is
is
rather
misplaced,
but
I
want
to
put
that
aside
for
now
and
just
get
to
think
about
this
concept
of
a
public
good.
G
So
the
blockchain,
the
bitcoin
blockchain,
is
a
public
good.
It's
a
it's
a
it
is
in
and
of
itself.
This
record
that
everybody
agrees
is
going
to
issue
tokens
at
a
certain
rate,
6.25
every
10
minutes
right
now
and
is
going
to
execute
a
bunch
of
different
like
transfer
protocols
for
how
we
move
that
value
around
with
each
other
and
we're
all
going
to
agree
to
it
that,
and
yet
nobody
is
in
charge.
G
It
is.
It
is
a
profound
development.
I
think
you
know
everybody,
you
know,
can
poo
poo,
bitcoin
and
everything
else,
but
if
you
just
step
back
and
just
think
of
how
this
thing
has
evolved
in
the
last
13
years,
it
is
just
profound
that
this
machine
continues
to
go
on
and
you
know
what
it
also
does.
It
gets
increasingly
efficient.
G
G
It
is
almost
instantaneously
removed
the
minute
that
there
is
an
advantage
from
one
player
or
another
in
terms
of
how
fast
their
hashing
power
is,
it
will
attract
others
in
or
out
and
as
a
result,
the
protocol
is
no
longer
able
to
no
longer
has
any
of
this
great
variability
in
terms
of
the
how
many
blocks
already
issued
at
a
certain
time.
It
is
very,
very
consistent.
G
It
speaks
to
the
fact
that,
even
with
this
volatility
of
price,
and
even
though
there's
a
fairly
long,
I
think
it's
a
four-day
window
when
there's
an
adjustment
to
the
difficulty
mechanism,
that
window
of
opportunity
that
you
would
think
that
a
very
efficient
miner
could
take
disappears
immediately.
So
you've
got
this
incredible
machine
that
is
increasingly
proficient
efficient
and
and
essentially
protecting
this
public
good.
That
everybody
agrees
upon
the
other
thing
to
say
about
bitcoin
is
it's
sometimes
referred
to
as
it's
actually
a
smart
contract?
G
It's
it's,
it's
a
very
basic
one,
but
it
is
executing
a
bunch
of
rights
according
to
the
agreements
that
everybody
has
has
agreed
to,
and
no
one
is
able
to
influence
that
outcome
right.
The
smart
contract
idea
being
everybody
all
the
parties
to
that
contract
have
everything
executed,
not
one
of
them
or
any
other
party
can
actually
influence
its
outcome
because
the
the
machine,
the
virtual
machine,
in
this
case
the
the
bitcoin
network,
is
executing
it
in
bitcoin's
case
it
is
just
a
very
narrow
contract.
G
It's
about
transactions
and
transfers
of
bitcoin
itself,
but
there
is
a
you
know
as
we'll
get
to
this
higher
level
of
what
a
smart
contract
can
be
built.
On
top
of
that-
and
I
think
it's
very
very
important
for
how
we
think
about
this
concept
of
collectively
as
humanity.
How
do
we
build
trust
on
the
data
and
then
enter
into
contracts
that
hold
us
to
the
same
same
goals?
G
And
now
I
will
talk
a
little
bit
about
you
know
what
in
fact
bitcoin
is
and
energy
relate
to
here,
because
there's
a
whole,
you
know
it's
clear.
Any
sort
of
bitcoiners
will
tell
you
that
the
carbon
footprint
of
bitcoin
is
is
nothing
to
worry
about,
have
got
their
head
in
the
sand.
G
It's
a
huge
problem
but
by
the
same
token,
the
the
the
measurement
of,
in
my
mind,
at
least
the
notion
that
consumption
of
energy
is
the
metric
by
which
we
should
be
judging
bitcoin
or
anything
for
that
matter
is
completely
and
utterly
flawed,
because
this
is
about
esg
right.
So
it's
about
anti-poverty.
It's
about
development.
It's
about
everything
else.
How
on
earth
are
we
going
to
actually
advance
all
of
these
goals?
G
G
So
to
me,
what
really
needs
to
happen
with
bitcoin
I'll
get
to
why
this
matters
to
the
other
things
here
is
how
do
we
align
the
incentives
of
participants
in
this
place
in
this
in
this
particular
system,
with
the
broader
interests
of
society
and
the
bottom
line
is
you've
got
these
this
value
proposition
people
will
make
money,
you
know
mining
bitcoin
and
it
isn't
going
to
go
away.
G
So
the
idea
that
we
could,
in
fact
have
you
know
energy
policy
makers,
be
they.
You
know
national
grid
operators
or
municipal
utility
operators
actually
working
closely
with
bitcoin
miners,
so
that
their
activity
is
is
something
that
is
building
renewable
systems
is
actually
rewarding.
You
know
is
underwriting.
Essentially
developing
development
of
renewables
is
actually,
I
think,
the
most
powerful
way
to
think
about
it,
and
the
reason
why
I'm
saying
this
is
because
we
need
to
get
our
head
out
of
the
narrow
sort
of
centralized
way
of
thinking.
G
Okay,
this
this
thing
is
good
or
bad,
it
should
be
banned
or
it
shouldn't
and
think
broadly
about
system
design.
How
do
we
actually
look
at
incentives?
Economic
assist
incentives
across
society,
and
how
do
we
use
this?
This
broad-based,
you
know
interest
in
achieving
my
own
profits
in
a
way
that
actually
sort
of
feeds
out
that
broad
system.
G
So
the
key
word
is
incentives.
How
do
we
align
the
interests
of
everybody
here?
How
do
we
make
sure
that
I'm
incentivized,
if
I'm
a
cow,
herder
looking
to
graze
my
cattle,
I'm
incentivized,
to
wait
and
collectively
participate
in
this,
and
the
payoff
for
me
is
is
very
clear
right.
How
does
the?
How
do
we
create
a
contract
that
nobody
can
control,
but
that
is
in
fact
rewarding
me
to
do
something
that
is
aligned
with
the
broader
interests,
and
this
is
where
the
power
of
blockchain
and
smart
contracts
comes
in.
G
You
know
I
just
want
to
break
it
break
down
from
here,
just
a
little
bit
about
where
I
see
the
elements
of
blockchain
feeding
into
this,
this
alignment
of
interests
and
and
how
its
functionality
works
as
incentives.
The
first
is
this
idea
of
common
measurement
and
I'm
glad
to
see
there's
been
a
conversation
about
oracles,
because
I
think
without
oracles,
this
common
measurement
aspect
of
esg
for
blockchain
is
is
obviously
impossible.
G
So
thinking
about
decentralized
oracles,
but,
ultimately
you
know
what
we're
trying
to
do
is
get
to
the
same
basic
solution
that
bitcoin
addressed,
which
was
how
do
you
not
double
count
right?
How
do
you
not
have
a
a
system
whereby,
if
I
were
to
be
a
carbon
emitting
entity
that
my
offset
is
not
actually
being
recognized
twice
or
that
I'm
not
overstating
that
it's
the
same
basic
problem,
and
so
this?
This
is
a
starting
point
for
for
everything.
G
Again,
it
gets
us
to
this
basic
common
accounting
solution,
but
there's
a
lot
more,
I
think
that's
really
interesting
to
look
at
in
the
crypto
space
that
goes
beyond
just
that
basic
measurement
aspect
of
this,
and
it's
to
look
at
what's
actually
happening
at
a
social
level
right,
what's
happening
in
terms
of
innovation,
what's
happening
in
terms
of
speculation
what's
happening
in
terms
of
passion
right.
G
All
of
this
stuff,
in
fact,
is
is
is,
is
something
that
I
think
we
are
starting
to
understand
is
fundamental
to
this
sort
of
permissionless
environment
that
blockchains
enable
so
defy
just
heard
a
lot
about
that
from
the
folks
at
polygon.
G
You
know,
what's
to
me
so
profound
about
it,
and
you
heard
the
word
legos
mentioned
there
is
this
idea
of
of
composable
innovation?
One
stack,
one
piece
of
the
stack
is
developed,
and
somebody
else
builds
on
top
of
that.
There's
another
protocol
that
connects
to
that
and
this,
and
that
this
is
only
possible
because
the
the
capacity
to
build
is
permissionless
like
we're
starting
to
understand
that
the
cost
of
construction,
the
cost
of
building
anything
is
heavily
in
is
heavily
hindered
by
this.
G
G
It's
because
you
need
the
absence
of
that
intermediary
to
to
make
the
true
permissionless
aspect
of
the
transaction
happen.
So
not
only
does
it
enable
the
transaction,
it
enables
you
to
build
on
top
of
these
protocols,
and
so
we
need
innovation
desperately
in
the
esd
space.
We've
got
so
many
big
problems
and
there
are
so
many
great
solutions
out
there
right.
How
do
we
get
the
system
design
functionality
here
to
lead
towards
explosive
innovation
in
in
the
esg
space?
G
Well,
you
make
it
permissionless
you
make
it
available,
so
crypto
is
really
important
for
that
now
paul.
I
didn't
get
to
hear
your
presentation
before,
but
I
did
read
your
wonderful
op-ed
for
coindesk.
Thank
you
very
much
for
that
and
paul
talked
a
lot
about
money
and
and
how
do
we
unlock
it
right?
Because
we
need
a
lot
of
it.
We
need
3
trillion
10
trillion.
G
G
We
don't
look
judgmentally
at
that,
but
we
do
no
one
likes
wall
street
necessarily,
but
the
idea
that
there's
this
machine
that
that
creates
value
that
spins
money
around
and
puts
it
into
things,
is
like
an
integral
part
of
american
capitalism.
Well
now,
if
you
look
at
you
know,
d
fire
again
the
classic
example
of
this
and
the
speculation
and
around
nfts,
it's
phenomenal
how
we
are
able
to
sort
of
steer
this,
this
money
creation,
this
capital
formation
process
and
putting
into
this,
I
think
part
of
that
is
again
permissionless
innovation.
G
It's
excitement
around
that,
but
this
sort
of
flywheel
of
innovation
and
capital
formation
is
also,
I
think,
integrally
connected
to
this
idea
of
passion
and
community.
It
just
starts
to
get
like
you
know.
This
is
where
I
do
think
I
can
step
away
from
the
the
john
walputs
and
others.
The
engineers,
instead
of
step
back
and
say,
let's
think
about
this
part
of
it
right.
So
I
I
don't
know
how
many
of
you
have
been
watching.
G
You
know
the
the
various
sort
of
nft
collection
spaces,
the
board
apes
and
the
crypto
punks
and
everything
else.
I
I
find
this
stuff
fascinating,
like
look
at
look
at
loot,
all
right,
loot.
This
is
just
we're
now
inspiring
people
to
create
and
build
on
top
of
a
bunch
of
words
and
the
excitement
is
something
else
so
there's
real
passion
here.
G
I
actually
think
that
one
of
the
things
that
could
be
really
powerful
is
how
we
may
take
this
idea
of
a
community
built
around
an
nft
that
cares
about
something
and
art
by
the
way
is
fundamental,
that
art
and
belonging
are
really
core
parts
of
of
belief
and
belonging
and
ties
that
to
something
else
that
I
care
about.
That's
esg
related
ocean
conservation
right.
G
Maybe
I've
got
a
I'm
a
member
of
the
turtles
nft
community
and
I've
got
my
own
personalized
turtle,
nft
and
I'm
part
of
this
and
I
care
about
turtles,
but
using
the
metrics
that
you
know
we're
going
to
talk
about
in
terms
of
blockchain
and
its
power
to
actually
prove
the
value
of
what
I'm
doing.
G
I
could
tie
my
performance
as
a
contributor
to
the
preservation
of
the
ocean,
the
removal
of
plastics,
for
example,
and
tie
that
back
to
the
value
of
my
personal
nft
thinking
about
how
we
tie
community
passion
belief
to
this
core
measurement
problem
and
this
common
interest.
There's
a
lot
here
that
we
can
unstart
to
unpack
and
a
huge
part
of
this
is
is
what
does
it
mean
to
be
human
in
this,
like?
What
does
it
mean
to
be
to
to
belong
to
this
common?
G
You
know
this
this
common
humanity
and
to
be
part
of
this
planet.
It
comes
down
to
the
individual
like
what
is
my
identity
in
this
and
how
do
I
as
an
as
a
as
an
individual
entity
as
somebody
who
is
a
free
agent?
How
do
I
get
to
participate
in
this?
Otherwise,
broader
system
of
governance.
That
brings
us
to
this
collective
interest
and
that's
where
mary
is
going
to
talk
to
us
about
self-sovereign
identity
to
some
of
these
solutions.
G
So
I'm
going
to
round
it
up
and
we're
going
to
have,
I
think,
christina's
first
right,
I
do
need
to
make
one
quick
sales
pitch,
and
that
is
that
with
paul
and
others
help.
I
I
I
don't
know
if
you
know,
but
I
have
a
podcast
with
sheila
warren,
who
is
the
blockchain
lead
and
data
and
society
leader
at
the
world
economic
forum
and
the
two
of
us
decided
to
found
something.
G
We
call
the
crypto
impact
sustainability
accelerator,
a
long
kind
of
it's
an
acronym
that
says
csa,
and
this
is
a
body
that
we're
forming
to
have
people
who
care
about
esg
and
blockchain
and
crypto
solutions
come
together
and
formulate
common
interests
in
standards
and
in
a
common
approach
to
all
these
all
these
problems.
So
I
welcome
you
to
to
look
into
that
if
anybody's
interested
and
become
part
of
that
so
anyway,
that's
my
my
brief
sales
pitch
but
christina.
If
you
want
to
take
the
fourth,
the
beginning
sure.
P
So
yay
that
was
pretty
simple,
so
I'm
christina
dolan
and
I
currently
head
up
alliances
for
rsa,
which
is
a
cyber
security
company,
and
I
want
to
thank
paul
and
michael
for
inviting
me
to
come
and
speak
about
this
very
exciting
topic.
It's
a
topic
that
I
just
recently
wrote
a
co-authored
a
book
on
this.
The
reason
why
it's
interesting
from
a
data
perspective
is
that
the
data
space,
as
michael
pointed
out,
is
really
new
right.
P
I
mean
I'm
going
to
take
you
through
a
few
timelines,
give
you
a
sense
of
the
timing
of
esg
and
how
this
all
fits
in.
I
mean
my
background's
a
little
bit
on
the
crazy
side.
I
was
part
of
the
disruption
after
I
graduated
from
mit.
I
I
headed
up
technology
at
hearst
and
disney
disrupting
the
media.
P
Space
then
went
to
oracle
and
disrupted
e-commerce
and
retail,
and
then,
from
there
I
co-founded
a
company
in
the
telecom
space
which
kind
of
revolutionized
internet
access,
and
then
I
went
into
data
and
institutional
financial
trading
which,
at
which
point
I
was
introduced
to
blockchain
and
crypto
and
co-founded
advised
and
got
involved
with
a
number
of
different
startups
in
that
space,
and
today
I
work
in
the
cyberspace.
P
P
My
first
question
is:
what
is
sustainability
so
now
I
just
make
sure
everybody's
awake,
I'm
going
to
ask
volunteers
to
come
up
with
one
word
that
describes
corporate
sustainability.
Anybody
in
the
audience
want
to
volunteer
one
word.
Just
one
word
now
right:
well,
it's
resiliency,
it's
resiliency,
it's
the
resiliency
of
a
company
and
will
it
survive
and
that's
what's
at
the
center
of
this
I
mean
sustainability
for
the
world
is
about.
P
Will
the
world
survive,
but
at
a
corporate
level
it's
will
an
organization
survive
right
and
there's
a
variety
of
different
ways
and
different
lenses
of
looking
at
it.
If
you're
a
corporation
and
you're.
Writing
your
annual
reports
on
your
sustainability.
You
have
a
variety
of
different
ways
of
doing
that
and
different
data
points,
but
if
you're,
an
investor
there's
a
variety
of
different
lenses
in
which
you
can
look
at
it.
P
So
it's
interesting
when
it
comes
to
esg
investing,
there's
a
wide
spectrum
of
of
lenses
right,
so
the
oldest
one
in
the
book
is
the
negative
screening
and
the
abraham
religions
in
the
past
have
actually
used
that
for
years
right.
But
then
you
also
have
single
focus
right.
You
have
climate.
P
The
she
fund
is
focused
on
diversity
and
then,
of
course,
best
in
class
is
the
one
that's
used
by
most
esg
funds
that
are
performing
really
well
and
it
allows
for
investors
to
invest
in
almost
every
industry,
regardless
of
whether
or
not
they're
polluting
or
what
they're
doing,
but
it's
the
best
in
that
particular
category.
P
Okay,
so
why
does
sustainability
matter?
I
know
michael
just
talked
about
it
right,
but
why
does
it
really
matter?
It's
not
corporate
sustainability
isn't
just
about
the
employees
and
the
investors.
I
mean
people
like
to
think
that,
but
it's
really
not
the
case
right
because
of
industry
4.0.
We
live
in
a
connected
world,
so
organizations
and
people
they're
all
connected.
P
P
So
when
us,
when
these
suppliers
in
a
small
town
goes
out
of
business,
what
happens
to
that
town?
What
happens
to
the
tax
base
right?
What
happens
to
the
local
revenue
required
for
the
education
system
right?
So
you
see
that
in
this
connected
world
there
is
sort
of
a
ripple
effect.
So
when
an
organization
does
not
survive,
it
has
an
effect
on
the
rest
of
the
ecosystem.
Right
I
mean
you
know.
P
So
now,
let's
take
this
from
a
completely
different
perspective
right.
So
michael
talked
a
little
bit
about
the
the
need
to
have
mechanisms
by
which
to
govern
right
to
this
governance
requirement.
When
it
comes
to
large
organizations,
we
have
a
number
of
organizations
that
are
larger
than
countries
right.
I
mean
you
look
at
like
market
caps
of
apple
and
amazon,
microsoft.
Those
those
colored
areas
represent
countries
that
they're
bigger
than
right.
P
And
and
look
at
the
the
number
of
of
active
customers
that
are
engaging
with
these
brands,
also
bigger
than
countries
right.
So
the
importance
of
having
a
mechanism
for
governance
that
comes
from
the
inside
out
becomes
even
more
important
so
having
the
data
to
understand
that
and
communicate.
That
becomes
even
more
important
and,
as
I've
said
before,
this
is
a
really
young
space.
P
So
when
I
talk
about
this
idea
of
governance
from
the
inside
out,
you
know
how
do
you
make
that
happen?
Well,
if
companies
that
don't
behave
well,
don't
get
customers
who
give
them
revenue
and
they
don't
get
investors
who
give
them
capital
they'll
suffocate
right.
So
that's
one
of
the
means
by
which
organizations
are
sort
of
forced
to
behave
right.
P
So,
who
are
these
stakeholders
so
one
important
stakeholder?
Are
these
employees
right,
they're,
the
ones
who
build
the
intellectual
property
for
an
organization
that
creates
the
value?
It's
the
vendors?
It's
the
suppliers
and
with
respect
to
the
financial
community?
There's
there's
a
whole
group
of
stakeholders
there.
So
it's
not
just
one
or
two
stakeholders
and
it's
what
builds
that
esg
brand.
P
But
this
ties
back
to
our
conversation
about
blockchain,
because
without
transparent
mechanisms
by
which
to
see
transactions
across
siloed
systems
and
be
able
to
have
the
visibility
of
of
you
know:
data
journeys
it's
very
difficult
to
see
publicly
this
information
across
a
variety
of
different
siloed
systems
and
without
the
mechanism
to
communicate
and
have
that
data
there.
It's
difficult
to
implement
the
corporate
culture
to
implement
this.
P
Okay,
so
so
how
did
this
the
dependency
between
people
and
companies
become
so
important?
I
mean
we've
all
talked
about
the
industrial
revolution
and
how
that
changed.
This
dynamic
between
you
know
how
people
lived
and
worked
where
they
lived,
how
they
earned
money.
So
this
use
of
technology
that
build
built
upon
prior
industrial
revolutions
and
made
it
possible
for
new
technology
to
be
able
to
provide
new
types
of
services
created
this
kind
of
interesting
relationship
between
people
and
organizations.
P
Companies
started
to
realize:
hey,
we
don't
treat
people
well,
they're,
not
going
to
do
work
for
us
and
then
we're
not
going
to
have
a
product
to
sell,
and
so
this
this
relationship
around
corporate
social
responsibilities
started
to
evolve.
In
addition
to
that,
there
were
a
couple
of
other
milestones
that
occurred.
I
mean
you
had
the
un
and
the
world
bank
were
formed.
P
P
P
And
then,
of
course,
the
last
two
decades
have
been
monumental
in
terms
of
the
changes
that
have
sort
of
evolved
right,
I
mean
from
the
beginning,
with
the
un
millennium
development
goals,
the
engagement
by
general,
kofi
and
on
to
get
corporations
involved.
The
development
of
the
u.n
sustainability
goals,
which
we
talk
about
now,
the
paris
agreement.
Actually,
the
word
esg
is
only
about
15
years
old.
P
And,
of
course,
all
these
organizations
evolved
and
they
all
have
different
viewpoints,
sasmi's
used
by
public
companies,
gr
developed
in
the
united
states,
but
actually
has
been
used
mostly
in
europe.
That's
about
you
know
the
company's
impact
on
the
world
sasmi's
about
the
world's
impact
on
companies,
but
they
all
produce
a
variety
of
different
types
of
reporting
and
they
have
all
different
focus
and
so
last
fall.
P
So
there
are
a
variety
of
data
types,
and
this
is
really
kind
of
important
because,
unlike
you
know,
credit
markets
for
bonds,
these
ratings
and
the
data
around
esg
is
not
regulated,
and
so,
as
a
result
of
that,
there
are
very
different
approaches
and
methodologies
and
frameworks,
and
even
the
types
of
data
that
are
that
are
utilized
in
in
the
analysis
are
different.
P
There's
a
lot
of
proprietary
data
as
well.
You
know
some
organizations
look
to
the
past
and
look
to
the
look
forward.
Some
will
buy.
You
know
data
satellite
data
to
find
out
where
the
water
tables
are
others
will
get
older
data
from
fema.
I
mean
the
data
is
all
over
the
place
once
again,
not
regulated.
P
Now,
technology
and
innovation
is
really
critical,
because,
without
that
you
know,
michael
talked
a
bit
about
that.
You
know,
companies
are
not
sustainable,
they
don't
survive
and
larger
organizations
from
an
innovation
perspective
really
have
to
think
about
the
fact
that
now
younger
organizations
can
buy
these
little
lego
blocks,
assemble
something
stand
it
up
without
having
to
create
every
module
and
and
compete,
and
so
innovation
has
become
one
of
those
components
of
sustainability
and,
of
course,
blockchain
and
iot
are
really
critical.
P
Of
course,
that
slide
disappeared
but
are
really
critical,
because
when
you
think
about
these
siloed
systems
and
and
this
need
in
financially
regulated
markets,
you
need
a
lot
more
data
about
kyc
amld5
travel
rule
in
in
the
traditional
supply
chains.
Even
with
the
cova
vaccine,
you
need
to
know
the
temperature
that
things
were
stored
at,
so
this
visibility
is
becoming
even
more
important
for
survival,
cyber,
which
is
obviously
my
favorite
topic,
is
probably
the
most
immediate,
financially
material,
esg
and
sustainable
risk
companies
that
get
breached.
P
You
know,
tend
to
go
out
of
business.
Small
medium
businesses
tend
to
go
out
of
business
within
six
months
and
just
to
finish
off,
I
want
to
make
sure
that
I
leave
you
with
this
one
point
that
governance
is
what
drives
esg.
They
should
have
played
the
other
way
around.
They
should
have
made
a
g
e
s
or
something
to
that
effect,
because
without
governance,
you
can't
implement
these
policies.
P
You
can't
implement
environmental
or
social
policies,
and
the
reality
is
that
you
can't
even
implement
the
governance
without
technology,
and
so
technology
is
a
very
key
part
of
that.
But
the
space
around
data
and
esg
space
is
not
only
not
normalized
across
the
industry.
It's
not
regulated,
but
it's
a
very
young
space
and
it's
probably
not
more
than
18
months
old,
but
a
very
critical
component
of
you
know:
sustainability
on
a
global
basis.
So
thank
you.
Q
All
right,
well,
I'm
so
glad
that
I
get
to
be
last
this
morning,
because
I
want
to
bring
some
ideas
together,
we're
going
to
bring
some
ideas
from
john
wolpert
that
blockchains
are
boring,
it's
what
they
create
and
enable
that's
exciting,
we're
going
to
bring
some
ideas
from
paul
and
chen
who
talk
about
compound
innovations,
we're
going
to
bring
some
ideas
for
a
need
for
cyber
security
that
christina
just
talked
about
and
we're
going
to
bring
this
idea
of
individual
empowerment.
Q
Q
So
as
a
college
professor,
I
just
really
want
to
applaud
you
that
you
are
stepping
outside
the
formal
bounds
of
your
classrooms,
to
enhance
your
learning
journey.
You
are
our
future
and
this
is
why
we're
all
here.
So
thank
you
so
much
all
right.
So
I'm
going
to
talk
about
my
newest
passion,
self-sovereign,
identity
and
verifiable
credentials.
Q
It's
an
idea.
It's
an
idea
that
we
are
finally
going
to
get
rid
of
our
lousy,
centralized
and
federated
id
models
that
we
use
on
the
internet
and
replace
it
with
something
that
we,
the
individuals,
have
power
over
our
identity
and
our
credentials.
It's
actually
more
than
a
technological
imperative.
It
is
absolutely
a
moral
imperative.
Q
We
also
have
a
cyber
security
imperative
right,
christina
you
just
mentioned
this
identity
is
stolen.
All
the
time
about
1
in
15
of
us.
In
here
that's
going
to
be
quite
a
high
percentage,
are
going
to
have
our
identity
theft
stolen
this
year,
so
we're
going
to
bring
together
the
ideas
of
blockchains,
which
play
a
very
minor
role
in
this
john,
that
we
are
going
to
be
able
to
have
much
more
power
over
our
identity
and
our
credentials
and
we're
going
to
do
it
in
a
way
that
is
more
secure
and
more
trustworthy.
Q
Q
It
was
created
by
the
u.s
department
of
defense
and
they
had
given
some
research
funding
to
a
bunch
of
people
like
me,
and
christine
who've
worked
in
academic
institutions
at
institutions
like
stanford
and
ucla,
and
the
university
at
utah,
and
they
wanted
the
research
scientists
to
share
their
data
by
connecting
the
machines
and
those
first
connections
were
called
arpanet
because
they
all
knew
and
trusted
each
other.
The
id
the
identity
was
not
even
considered
at
the
dawn
of
the
internet
as
the
internet
grew
and
we
started
adding
more
entities
to
it.
Q
We
did
end
up
with
some
enabling
protocols
like
tcpip,
but
all
that
does
is
tell
us
which
machines
and
devices
are
connected
to
the
internet.
It
doesn't
tell
us
anything
about
the
human
beings
who
are
using
them.
Next.
We
go
to
the
world
of
email
and
e-commerce,
and
this
is
the
first
identity
layer
that
we
had
on
the
internet.
Q
Then
in
2017
we
got
the
second
error
of
identity
on
the
internet,
which
is
even
worse
called
the
federated
model
and
you've
all
seen
this
you're
about
to
go
to
a
website.
You
don't
have
a
relationship
yet
with
this
website,
so
you
can
either
create
another
account
and
password,
or
you
can
give
more
of
your
power
away
to
some
of
these
organizations
that
will
allow
you
to
use
your
current
login
id
and
password
to
get
to
it.
So
where
we
are
before
self-sovereign
identity,
we
have
identity
where
we
don't
control
our
credentials
or
our
identity.
Q
Q
So,
where
we're
trying
to
get
to
with
self-sovereign
identity
and
verifiable
credentials
is
a
happier
world
that
is
decentralized
where
we,
the
holders
of
our
credentials,
are
going
to
be
in
charge
of
them
and
we're
going
to
do
it
in
a
cyber
security
model
that
is
fault-tolerant
resilient
and
always
available.
So
are
you
in
right?
Doesn't
this
sound
good?
Yes,
okay,
so
what
is
ssi
so
self-sovereign
identity,
it's
best
to
think
of
it
as
the
architecture
that's
going
to
enable
what
I
just
described
to
you.
Q
There
are
a
lot
of
non-profits
and
standard-making
bodies
working
on
this,
and
I
just
pulled
out
the
sovereign
foundation's
principles
for
ssi.
I
don't
have
time
to
go
through
all
of
them
today.
If
you're
coming
to
the
master
class
this
afternoon,
you
will
learn
more,
but
there's
a
couple
points.
I
really
want
to
point
out
here.
Q
The
first
is
representation.
Self-Sovereign
identity
is
not
just
for
human
beings.
We're
going
to
use
this
model
for
any
entity
that
gets
a
verifiable
credential,
whether
it's
your
meat
is
certified.
Organic
or
the
building
here
is
lead
certified
or
it
could
be
a
process.
So
anything
that
gets
a
credential
can
be
executed
with
this
model.
Okay.
The
second
thing
I
want
to
call
out
is:
I
use
the
term
verifiable
credential.
Q
Q
So
the
classic
example
is
there's
a
couple
students
in
here,
I'm
sure
you
get
carded
when
you
go
to
a
bar,
I
don't
get
carded
anymore.
Everybody
believes
I'm
over
21.,
but
they
ask
you
for
your
driver's
license.
Why
do
they
need
to
see
your
name
and
your
address
and
your
date
of
birth?
They
just
need
to
be
able
to
know
that
your
legal
drinking
age
ssi
is
going
to
enable
that.
Q
Okay:
let's
look
at
a
couple
of
core
concepts
so
now
I'm
going
to
go
into
the
paper-based
world
on
how
we
verify
our
credentials
today
and
you
need
to
understand
the
trust
triangle,
so
we
have
issuers.
These
are
the
institutions
that
create
our
verifiable
credentials
and,
what's
inside
your
wallet,
this
is
what's
inside
my
wallet.
Q
P
Q
You
people
spend
too
much
time
online.
I
wanted
to
hear
the
new
york,
public
library
and
they've
issued
my
library
card
along
with
my
other
paper
credentials
and
I'm
the
subject
holder.
I
don't
get
to
create
my
credentials
and
when
I
want
to
prove
them
to
verifiers,
I
display
them.
So
if
I
go
on
an
airplane,
I
need
to
show
my
driver's
license
and
my
ticket.
Q
Q
Q
So
what's
it
gonna
look
like
in
our
world
of
ssi,
where
there
are
rainbows
and
unicorns
happy
users
and
blue
jays
we
are.
This
is
the
only
part
blockchain's
going
to
play
in
here,
john,
it's
a
tiny
little
part.
It's
going
to
become
our
new
public
key
infrastructure
and
mostly
what
we're
going
to
put
on
that
is
the
public
keys
for
the
issuers,
so
that
the
verifiers
will
know
when
I
look
at
a
credential
that
it
was
a
legitimate
issuer
who
signed
that
credential.
Q
Q
I
don't
have
to
have
an
account
and
a
log
on
id
same
thing
for
the
verifiers
who
want
to
have
access
or
need
to
know
my
credentials
they're
going
to
be
peer-to-peer.
How
do
you
do
it?
Well,
we
need
a
couple
of
enabling
technologies,
so
the
first
thing
we'll
talk
about
is
dids
decentralized,
identifiers.
Q
L
Q
Q
Q
Now
we
go
to
the
world
of
did
this
is
how
we're
going
to
establish
our
trust
and
our
credentials
so
paul.
You
left
me,
I
don't
know
where
he
disappeared.
I'll
use
chen
as
an
example
chen's
still
here
so
chen
you
will
create
your
own.
Did
you
are
going
to
control
that
with
a
private
key
in
your
new
special
wallet
and
that
will
resolve
to
something
we
call
a
did
document.
That's
going
to
it's
going
to
have
metadata
that
is
unique
to
you
and
you're
going
to
have
many
dids.
Q
So
every
time
you
have
a
relationship
with
an
issuer,
you'll
have
a
did.
Every
time
you
have
a
relationship
with
a
verifier
you'll
have
a
did
when
the
issuers
create
your
credentials.
You'll
have
a
did
so
we're
going
to
be
loaded
with
dids,
but
by
having
so
many
of
them
we're
going
to
get
that
compartmentalization.
Q
Q
Q
Where
are
we
on
this
journey?
W3C
is
maintaining
a
record
of
all
the
did,
methods
that
are
being
proposed,
and
when
I
looked
last
week
there
were
109
of
them
right,
and
so
some
of
these
are
going
to
be
for
that
new
public
key
infrastructure.
Where
are
we
going
to
store
them?
We
have
methods
that
will
be
on
bitcoin.
We
have
methods
that
will
be
on
ethereum.
I
think
there's
about
three
or
four
for
ethereum.
Q
We
have
new
networks
that
are
dedicated
to
this.
Like
the
sovereign
network,
we
have
github
here
you
have
a
did
method
coming
out
and
so
we'll
talk
again
more
about
these
in
the
master
class.
H
L
Q
Right,
okay,
so
we
talked
about
dids.
Now
we're
going
to
talk
about
a
new
kind
of
wallet
which
is
called
an
ssi
wallet.
What's
in
your
ssi
wallet?
Well,
the
fir
we
can
go
back
to
the
other
one.
So
the
first
thing
you're
going
to
have
is
all
of
your
peer-to-peer
connections
and
they
will
each
have
a
unique
identifier.
Q
Q
Then
your
issuers
will
issue
your
credentials
in
that
format
where
they're,
cryptographically
verifiable
and
we
the
holders
will
decide
what
we're
going
to
share
with
any
verifier.
So
first,
a
verifier
will
have
to
say.
Can
I
have
a
connection
with
you?
If
you
say
yes,
you'll
get
one
of
the
connections
and
then
they
say
I
want
to
know
how
old
you
are.
I
said:
okay,
I'll
share
some
I'll.
Tell
you
I'll
prove
to
you,
I'm
over
21,
but
you're
not
going
to
get
to
know
everything
else
about
me
all
right.
Q
So
that's
what's
going
to
be
in
your
wallets
next
slide,
please,
okay,
but
how
does
a
verifier
trust
an
issuer?
So
we
need
to
do
one
more
thing.
Next
slide,
please.
We
need
to
turn
our
trust
triangle
into
a
trust
diamond
by
adding
a
governing
authority
all
right
so
just
to
give
you
an
example
of
again
grounding.
Isn't
something
you
know
we
can
use
the
example
of
the
visa
network,
so
the
visa
network
is
a
governing
authority
for.
Q
Which
banks
are
allowed
to
issue
credit
cards?
You
can
just
keep
hitting
the
go
button
there.
Okay,
now
I
get
my
visa
card
and
then
it's
the
retail
merchants
that
decide.
Okay,
I
trust
the
governing
authority,
so
I'm
going
to
accept
the
visa
card.
Okay,
so
that's
an
example
of
governance,
a
governance
diamond
now.
I've
thrown
a
lot
of
ideas
at
you
today.
So
how
are
we
going
to
bring
this
all
together?
Q
So
the
trust
over
ip
foundation
is
part
of
the
linux
foundation.
It
was
established
in
may
of
2020
and
the
blockchain
center
of
excellence
at
the
u.s
at
the
u.s
at
the
university
of
arkansas.
Where
I
serve
as
director,
we
are
a
founding
member
and
we
are
trying
to
bring
together
all
of
the
different
communities
that
have
been
working
on
this
next
slide.
Q
How
do
we
do
this
in
a
peer-to-peer
fashion
for
the
for
the
connections?
How
do
we
get
to
that
trust,
diamond
and
then
finally,
bringing
all
ecosystems
together?
Next
slide?
Please,
okay!
Where
are
we
on
ssi,
okay,
we're
at
the
top
of
the
hype
cycle
according
to
gartner,
so
they
just
came
out
with
this
last
month.
Q
So
this
afternoon,
I'm
also
going
to
talk
about
some
of
the
production
pilots
that
are
already
using
all
parts
of
this
model.
You
can
hit
one
time
there
you
go
so
we'll
talk
about
the
doctors
in
the
united
kingdom
that
are
using
this
model.
They
had
a
challenge
is
the
doctors
every
time
they
went
to
another
hospital,
it
took
up
to
five
hours
to
prove
that
they
had
the
medical
credentials
to
work
in
that
hospital.
Q
Q
R
G
I
couldn't
see-
and
I
just
so
so
I'm
here-
it's
not
I'm
thinking
about
you.
Thank
you
both
for
those
those
presentations.
I
I'm
just
gonna
kick
this
off
with
a
couple
of
questions
and
listening
to
you
both
I'm
thinking.
Okay,
these
problems
are
still
so
huge
and
that
you
know
the
data
solutions,
the
the
technology
solutions,
all
of
it
is
as
promising
as
it
is.
We
face
this
huge
problem
of
how
do
we
actually
hurt
all
the
cats?
G
How
do
we
get
everybody
on
board
to
participate
in
this
and
I'm
a
words
guy?
I
I
write
for
a
living,
so
I'm
going
to
focus
on
for
both
of
you
words
that
you
used
and
and
and
just
throw
it
out
there
a
little
bit.
You
know
problematizing,
some
of
it
as
to
how
it
may
or
may
not
be
a
factor
in
how
well
we
actually
heard
those
cats.
So,
in
your
case
christina,
you
talked
about
cyber
security.
G
It's
my
view
that
the
paradigm
around
cyber
security
is
completely
and
utterly
wrong
right.
We
have
to
what
mary
was
talking
about
and
both
of
you
in
respect
these
walled
garden,
siloed
environments
and
we
think
of
the
cyber
security
as
a
threat
to
that,
and
we
build
ever-growing
firewalls
that
hackers
always
figure
out
how
to
get
over
when
we
spend
more
and
more
money
and
there's
just
trillions
and
trillions
of
dollars
fighting
this
thing
and
that
in
many
respects
the
solution
has
to
become
different.
G
It
has
to
be
a
system,
design
concept
that
we're
talking
about
right.
It's
about
the
economics
of
it.
How
do
I
create
the
extra
concepts
like
like
blockchain
useful
and
certainly
the
idea
that
we
would
spread
assets
and
it
moves
to
the
individual
who
holds
those
and
now
the
threat
is
no
longer
one
of
collecting
it
in
one
place
and
a
honeypot
of
data,
but
rather
it's
economically
unappealing
for
a
hacker
to
go
after
so
many
little
pieces.
G
It's
going
to
be
expensive
to
do
so
right,
so
I'm
just
wondering
whether,
since
cyber
security
is
so
caught
up
as
the
word
in
essentially
the
cybersecurity
business,
which
is
firewalls
and
security
systems,
antivirus
and
so
forth,
is
there
a
challenge
here?
Should
we
be
thinking
about
different
ways
of
framing
the
conversation.
P
So,
from
a
cyber
security
perspective,
I
think
that
we're
at
a
point
now
that
people
just
assume
that
they're
just
being
hacked
all
the
time
and
threats
so,
for
example,
rsa
the
focus
is
in
in
the
detection
business
right,
because
obviously
everybody
just
assumes
that
if
you
have
iot
devices,
robots
like
everything
is
a
potential
threat
vector
right,
but
it
is
a
component
that
becomes
even
greater
as
we
become
more.
P
You
know.
I
I
think
the
slide
that
you
had
140.
You
know
log
ons
right.
The
the
weak
point
for
cyber
security
is
the
human
side
right
and
like
90
of
threats,
come
from
things
like
passwords
right
and
then
you
have.
You
know,
government
actors
that
actually
create
their
own
startups
to
go
after
organizations.
P
So
I
I
think
that
to
some
degree,
there's
always
going
to
be
that
puzzle,
because
we,
you
know,
even
in
the
pre-internet
days,
there
was
a
lot
of
cyber
issues,
but
I
I
think
that
kind
of
going
back
to
the
esg
model.
I
think
that
we
look
at
all
these
things
as
as
threats
to
the
sustainability
of
organizations
in
in
a
connected
world
that
we
live
in,
and
so
even
if
we
did,
you
know
decentralize,
and
we
use
these
new
cryptographic
mechanisms
by
which
to
protect
data,
that's
either
stored
or
in
being
moved.
P
I
still
think
it
becomes
an
issue
to
always
innovate
to
try
to
protect
that.
G
Okay,
mary,
I'm
going
to
go
for
a
word,
that's
even
more
fundamental
to
that
and
that's
the
actual
word
identity
itself.
Q
G
Sheila
and
I
on
our
podcast
recently,
did
something
on
the
indian
identity
system
adar,
which
is
a
centralized
government-controlled
one
and
we
actually
had
sheila's
aunt
who's.
A
very
well-known
activist
in
india
talk
about
fighting
against
the
aadar
system,
the
honey
pot.
That's
there
the
risks
that
come
with
that
and
the
abuses
that
are
emerging
out
of
that,
and
you
know
I
I
my
view
of
that
problem,
that
we
we
talk
about
identity
as
the
problem.
There's
1.5
billion
people
who
do
not
have
an
identity,
an
identity,
and
so
we
created
our
data.
G
So
here's
a
great
solution
we'll
give
you
an
identity
and
the
government's
going
to
run
it
for
you
and
all
of
these
tech
companies
built
on
top
of
that
and
created
this
really
quite
abusive
system,
and
that
in
many
respects
it's
what
you
were
also
talking
about,
which
is
credentials
and
attributes
and
all
these
elements
of
what
comes
to
who
I
am,
and
I
just
wonder
whether
or
not
you
know,
there's
any
conversation
around
how
we
get
away
from
that
paradigm,
because
the
assumption
I
think
when
you
talk
about
identity
for
people,
is
that
it
goes
to
the
idea
of
this
central
system
when,
in
fact,
I
think
of
my
identity
as
as
something
very
very
personal.
G
That's
who
I
am,
I
have
a
bunch
of
attributes
and
I
would
love
to
be
able
to
use
those
attributes
to
access
and
transact
and
I'd
love.
I
think
the
self-sovereign
identity
model
is
is
the
way
forward
for
that,
but
in
the
interest
of
hurting
the
cats
and
getting
everybody
on
board
to
this
way
of
thinking.
How
do
we
grapple
with
that
problem
right?
What
is
the?
What
are
we
talking
about
here?.
Q
Okay,
well,
thank
you.
Thank
you,
michael
the
the
word
identity.
Again,
that's
the
vernacular.
We
all
use
and
even
the
examples
I
put
up
the
government
doesn't
give
you
an
identity
right.
It
gives
you
a
verifiable
credential
that
you
are
a
citizen
or
the
department
of
motor
vehicles
gives
you
a
verifiable
credential
that
you
are
a
licensed
driver.
So
really
all
that
we
have
today
is
is
verifiable
credentials.
We
don't
really
have
an
identity.
I
love
that
you
brought
it
up
as
it's
really
a
human
phenomenon.
B
Q
I
think
so
many
people
miss
that
when
they
talk
about
the
security
of
blockchains,
it's
really
about
it's
not
financially
worthwhile
to
do
it,
not
that
it's
unhackable,
so
I
that's
the
power
I
think
of
decentralization
of
and
that
that
to
me
is
why
it's
got
to
be
our
new
cyber
security
model.
G
Yep,
that's
exactly
where
I
was
going
with
that
excellent
okay,
so
fire
away
folks
questions,
thoughts,
complaints,
anything.
A
H
While
you're
thinking
of
them,
I
can
ask
you
one
from
online
so
mary,
this
one
is
kind
of
pragmatic,
but
I
think
it's
interesting
if
did's
become
our
new,
our
new
passwords
are
our
new
identities.
Are
we
going
to
have
a
challenge
of
remembering
what
dids
are
used
for?
What?
How
do
we
start
to
keep
track
of
all
these
things?
You.
Q
Will
you
will
not
have
a
problem
because,
as
I
showed
a
little
picture
of
the
wallets
they're
going
to
be
mapped
to
little
things,
that
are
very
easy
for
you
to
to
know?
Okay,
I
know
that
this
did
goes
to
the
department
of
motor
vehicles.
I
know
that
this
did
goes
to
my
relationship
with
ey
and
then
also
there's
a
whole
notion
of
agents.
It's
not
just
digital
wallets,
it's
digital
agents
that
that
helps
with
backup
and
recovery.
But
the
broader
answer
is:
if
we
design
this
well,
then
no,
you
won't
have
the
problem.
Q
Was
you
know,
since
this
is
all
digital?
How
is
that
going
to
address
the
you
know
address
a
problem
to
a
world
that
everybody
doesn't
have.
You
know
an
iphone.
One
of
the
principles
that
you
will
see
in
all
of
these
non-profits
is
that
you
can
also
do
this
offline,
so
you
can
still
do
this
with
paper,
so
your
dids
would
be
like
what
we're
scanning
up
here.
Qr
codes,
so
the
human
being
doesn't
have
to
be
connected
to
the
internet,
but
they
will
still
be
able
to
use
dids
with
paper
versions.
G
Q
Well,
this
is,
can
be
underground
right.
That's
the
beauty
of
complete
decentralization,
it's
very
hard
for
any
government
to
do
things
like
shut
down
bitcoin
unless
they're
shutting
down.
You
know
all
the
data
centers
that
can
combine
them.
So
I
don't
have
a
great
answer
for
your
question,
but
to
me
it
shows
a
promise
because
it's
decentralized.
J
R
Please
so
the
the
issuers
of
current
credentials
right,
the
governments
they
themselves
could
have
their
keys
potentially
compromised
in
some
way
or
another.
How
would
you
solve
a
problem
like
that
in
a
decentralized
world
to
restore
and
create
new
keys
and
maybe
cancel
the
old
credentials?
How
would
you
address
that.
Q
Okay,
well
in
the
new
in
the
new
world,
all
of
their
public
keys
are
stored
in
a
decentralized
place,
so
you
can
get
rid
of
the
it's,
not
an
additive
technology.
It's
let's
rip
it
out
and
redesign
it
better
from
the
beginning.
Also,
every
relationship
they
have
with
every
citizen
will
have
a
unique
peer-to-peer
relationship.
Q
So
I
realize
that
it's
seems
naive,
I'm
probably
the
over
overly
optimistic
one
here,
but
I
live
on
a
college
campus
where
I
see
optimism
every
single
day,
but
it's
if
anything
for
a
government.
I
think
the
cyber
security
cell
would
probably
be
the
best
way
to
go
about
it.
So
that's
that's
my
thoughts.
R
Q
A
And
do
some
more
questions
for
the
right
moment
to
do
this
by
the
way
is
it
going
to
become
crub,
create,
read,
update,
burn,
oh,
very
good,
all
right.
A
Modeling
modeling
the
2021
ey
spring
collection.
A
L
L
A
H
More
from
there's
one
on
it
for
for
michael,
can
you
explain
a
bit
more
about
the
role
of
decentralized,
oracles
and
performance
performance
measurement
of
common
goods.
G
Right
yeah,
it's
it's
one
of
the
big
problems
of
all
right
in
that,
like
you
know,
how
do
you
go
from
the
physical
world?
How
do
we
measure
the
ph
content
in
the
water?
How
do
we
measure
you
know
carbon
emissions
and
things
that
are
sort
of
physical
and
then
turn
that
into
data
that
can
now
be
valuable
in
in
the
it's
the
last
mile
problem
in
many
specs
right?
So
look
I'm
not
an
expert
at
how
decentralized
oracle's
function.
G
I
think
some
of
the
folks
from
polygon
might
be
better
to
answer
that,
but
the
principle
behind
that
I
think
is
is
is
is
really
the
important
point
here
and
that
is
like
okay,
an
oracle
you
know
in
in
the
context
of
a
blockchain
is,
is
a
data
source
that
is
trusted
and
the
the
question
becomes
then.
Okay,
who
controls
that
like?
G
Is
it
if
you're
gonna
take
you
know
a
price
feed
from
bloomberg
as
the
trigger
around
which
you're
gonna
make
have
your
smart
contract
execute
on
on
whatever
you're
telling
it
to
do?
You
now
have
to
trust
bloomberg
right
if
bloomberg
is
compromised
by
a
hacker
or
something
all
of
a
sudden.
G
The
oracle
is
compromised,
so
the
the
net,
the
oracle
networks
and
chain
link
and
others
that
have
worked
on
these
things,
I
know,
are
built
around
the
idea
that
you
can
create
take
some
of
the
same
concepts
of
incentives
and
smart
contracts
and
so
forth
to
actually
manage
oracles.
That
themselves
cannot
be
compromised
because
they
are
not
connected
to
there's
a
there's,
a
need
to
dis,
disconnect
the
capacity
I
think
to
profit
from
being
an
oracle.
G
All
right,
you
create
this
mechanism
cryptographically
again,
I'm
not
an
expert,
but
the
thing
is
like
if
I
am
incentivized
to
lie,
if
I
can,
if
there's
a
payoff
from
that
contract
that
I
get,
then
I
will
lie,
but
if
there's
no
mechanism
for
me,
I
don't
even
know
what.
In
fact
the
user
is
using.
My
information
for
I've
now
got
this
sort
of
framework
for
thinking
about
what
a
decentralized
con
oracle
can
do.
Did
I
do
a
reasonable
job
of
that.
M
Yeah
there
was
a
requirement
to
not
bring
to
not
natively
be
able
to
bring
off
chain
data
on
chain
initially,
but
now
so
like
there
are.
There
are
other
mechanisms
to
prevent
to
prevent
these
bad
malicious
activities.
So
there
is
slashing
there
is
there
is
there
are
ways
to
reduce
your
to
to
not
be
able
to
participate
again,
and
you
have
more
incentives,
skewed
incentives
in
the
positive
direction
to
be
able
to
provide
higher
quality,
much
more
frequent
data.
So
that's
on
a
high
level.
J
Christina
I've
been
wanting
to
ask
you
this
as
a
member
of
rsa,
which
is
you
know
that
talk
about
important
and
boring
right,
rsa.
J
Share
secret
sharing
and
all
this
stuff
say
hi
I
mean
these
are
the
the
original
ogs
of
of
of
the
stuff
that
we're
building
today
rsa
is
very
much
embedded
in
the
core.
It
boring
community.
J
P
So
I
mean
so
obviously
the
whole
data
center
concept
of
being
able
to
take
in
all
these
pieces
of
information
about
all
the
ip.
You
know
all
the
internet
addresses
that
are
being
hacked
or
acting
in
such
a
you
know,
you're
you're,
looking
for
threats
right
and
an
abnormal
behavior
using
some
form
of
ai,
and
I
think
that
you
know
obviously
you've
got
the
chain
analysis
folks
who
are
following
the
transactions
themselves.
P
But
when
you
look
at
what
rsa
does
in
the
threat
and
response
world
where
you're
looking
for
you
know,
access,
for
example,
access
into
an
environment
in
in
such
a
way
that
is
abnormal
or
you're.
P
Looking
at
files
being
moved,
I
mean,
obviously,
if
it's
in
the
in
the
blockchain,
it's
a
little
bit
more
difficult
to
just
move,
or
you
know
access
something
that
you're
not
supposed
to,
so
that
you
know,
but
you
still
have
keep
in
mind
that
90
of
you
know,
hacks,
actually,
you
know,
are
from
the
perimeter
they're,
not
necessarily
from
the
inside
so
being
able
to
detect.
That
is
an
important
thing
I
mean
think
about
where
all
of
the
blockchain
hacks
have
taken
place.
P
P
So
I
think
that
this
idea
of
being
able
to
identify
the
the
behaviors
of
hackers,
because
hackers
aren't
going
away-
I
mean
they're,
just
you
know:
they're
they're,
they're,
very
good
entrepreneurs
and
they're
building,
bigger
and
bigger
businesses
and
they're
getting
trickier
in
their
approach
to
finding
ways
to
to
hack,
and
so
I
still
think
this
idea
of
being
able
to
see
how
identifiable
entities
within
a
network
are
behaving
or
misbehaving
and
then
trying
to
figure
out
a
way
to
prevent
that
from
happening.
P
G
Oh
okay,
you
want
to
come
to
the
microphone
quickly
thanks.
D
So
I
have
a
question
for
mary
about
decentralized
identity.
I
think
it's
fascinating
love
the
topic.
How
do
you
get
people
to
care
like
onboarding,
one
billion
people,
two
billion
people?
How
do
you
get
people
to
care
about
sort
of
data,
sovereignty
and
privacy
and
without
like
a
10x,
ux
improvement
like
log
in
with
facebook?
How
do
you?
What
do
you
think
the
best
way
to
go
about
that
is.
Q
By
the
use
case,
so,
for
example,
the
doctor
example
that
I
had
it
was
so
painful
for
every
doctor
in
that
ecosystem
and
so
painful
for
the
hospitals.
They
were
begging
for
a
solution.
So
I
think
you
have
to
solve
real
world
problems.
They
have
to
have
real
business
cases,
they
can
have
the
idealistic
part,
but
they
have
to
they
have
to.
They
have
to
generate
more
value
than
the
costs
that
go
into
it.
A
Thank
you
very
much,
so
this
kind
of
concludes
the
live
streamed
portion
of
today's
event.
Before
we
close
up,
I
get
the
honor
of
being
able
to
make
a
few
closing
remarks.
First
of
all,
I
would
like
to
say
this
panel
had
probably
the
highest
signal
to
noise
ratio
of,
I
think
any
panel
I've
I've
had
I've
had
in
quite
a
long
time
really
really
brilliant.
F
A
We
always
have
really
smart
people,
but
on
top
of
that,
we
have
incredibly
smart
people
presenting
really
great
insights
in
an
incredibly
dense
format,
and
I
am
I'm
really
honored
and
amazed.
Secondly,
I
do
want
to
like
give
a
special
thank
you,
first
of
all,
to
the
people
watching
online,
but
also
to
every
single
person
who
showed
up
here.
We
used
to
go
to
events
all
the
time
we
didn't
think
about
it.
I
A
Grateful
for
every
single
person
who
showed
up
today,
so
that
is,
and
some
people
actually
flew
on
planes
and
took
time
to
do
that
and-
and
it
was
a
big
deal,
so
thank
you
so
much.
I
would
also
like
to
acknowledge
america
lindsay
and
suraj
and
wasim
our
production
team
and
our
marketing
operations
team.
They
keep
saying
that
this
was
really
difficult,
that
live
streaming
and
having
an
event
with
a
live.
Video
was
very
difficult.
A
A
Thank
you
so
much.
I
want
to
thank
jt
and
nolan
for
coming
awesome
people
on
reddit
who
make
an
amazing
community
right.
A
We
people
always
trash
talk
reddit
sometimes,
and
it
is
true,
there
are
some,
not
amazing
communities
on
reddit,
but
there
is
no
place
on
earth
where
you
will
find
a
higher
density
in
specific
ecosystems
of
people
who
really
know
stuff
right,
and
it's
been
it's
incredibly
rewarding
when
I
go
into
a
reddit
ecosystem
and
you
you
get
better
questions
from
that
ecosystem,
then
you
get
by
far
in
many
other
places
like
you
want
depth
of
expertise,
go
find
it
in
the
reddit
communities
and
then
I
also
want
to
thank
the
proof
of
attendance
protocol
people,
the
pope,
people
right.
A
This
is
fun.
We
all
have
nfts.
We
deployed
13
over
the
course
of
the
day.
Today
we
have
more
for
each
one
of
the
master
classes
for
those
of
you
who
are
staying
for
the
in-person
master
classes
this
afternoon.
So
this
is
a
big
part
of
engagement
and
community
right.
If
we
have
these,
I
have
them
all
in
my
proof
of
attendance
protocol.
A
Well,
I'm
actually
embarrassed
to
say
I
think
I
missed
my
own
token,
because
I
was
blabbering
on
instead
of
taking
a
picture
of
it,
but
it's
all
worked
out
really
really
nicely.
Thank
you
so
much
and
for
those
of
you
who
are
here
in
person,
we
have
free
food
and
beer
and
coffee
and
everything
else.
So
thank
you.
Thank
you.