►
From YouTube: The Baseline Show: w/ Ash Mohammed
Description
Guest: Ash Mohammed
Head of Framework Delivery and Change Oversight at NatWest Group
This week we will learn the blockers to existing practices for multi-party workflows and discuss the security, technology, and process implications for something like the Baseline Protocol to be adopted by financial institutions.
Visit baseline-protocol.org to learn about the Baseline Protocol, the open source community teams, and more!
A
System
and
I
welcome
you
all
to
the
Baseline
show
we
do
this
every
week,
every
Wednesday
at
noon
time,
EST,
It's,
Five
O'clock
in
in
London,
and
it's
10
30
in
the
in
India,
so
I'm
going
to
start
off
start
us
off
with
something
which
we
all
love,
which
is,
and
let's
see,
let's
see
some
head
shaking
on
the
Baseline
show,
with
with
yeah
with
our
Usual
Suspects
on
the
show
we
have
Keith,
we
have
Mark
rimsra,
we
have
sonal
and
we
have
Andreas
and
our
special
guest
today
is
Ash
Mohammed
who's
who's,
the
so
yeah
do
we
have
do
we
have
the
Baseline
song
I?
A
Think
everybody
loves
it.
So
I'm
just
gonna
keep
gonna
keep
playing
it.
So
so
we
have
with
us
today,
Ash
Muhammad.
He
has
been
with
us
in
the
past,
on
on
on
the
Baseline
India
show
and-
and
the
very
interesting
thing
is
that
he's
he's.
You
know
a
few
days
back.
Somebody
pointed
out
to
me
that
we
should
have
Ash
homework
back
and
we
should
continue
the
chat
that
we
were.
We
were
trying
to
have
on
the
on
the
Baseline
India
show.
A
So
Ash
is
the
head
of
remote
delivery
and
changeover
site
at
NatWest
group.
He
wears
multiple
hats
he's
also
doing
a
lot
of
community
work
with
the
NatWest
Community
initiatives
he's
also
on
the
board
of
another
NGO
I
believe
it
is
a
non-profit
right
which
will
move
on,
and
you
also
run
your
own
podcast,
so
Ash
welcome
to
the
Baseline
show,
and
let's,
let's
hear
from
you
what
you
do
and
also
about
your
podcast.
B
So
thanks
for
inviting
us
back
I
was
surprised
when
you
invited
me
back
after
the
first
session.
So
that's
always
good
to
hear
I.
B
Clearly,
I
said
something
of
value,
so,
as
you
mentioned
kind
of
most
of
my
careers
being
in
banking
and
so
from
doing
transformation
and
change,
programs
for
payments
and
Branch,
Integrations
and
all
sorts
of
good
stuff
to
more
kind
of
commercial
products
and
running
current
account,
books
and
mortgages
and
credit
cards
even
through
what
was
kind
of
2008
and
all
the
fun
that
brought
us
in
the
finance
industry
and
then
the
last
probably
eight
ten
years
of
my
career
has
been
in
various,
so
senior
risk
roles
in
the
banking
sector,
from
payments
to
Tech
to
more
recently
building
out
Frameworks
across
NatWest
group.
B
It's
quite
kind
of
very
career
in
banking
and,
as
you
said,
my
kind
of
passion
is
giving
back
to
the
community
mainly
kind
of
going
back
to
my
kind
of
childhood,
so
I
like
to
kind
of
now.
Let
me
know
the
opportunity
to
give
back
so
move
on
as
a
Scottish
charity.
No
Highlanders
involved
Keith,
unfortunately,
but
it
it
focuses
on
basically
families
and
and
youngsters
who
are
just
born
in
the
wrong
place
wrong
time.
B
Deals
with
food
poverty,
homelessness
and
then
supports
people
back
into
education,
employment
and
to
move
on
with
their
life.
So
it's
kind
of
my
passion
keeps
me
saying
after
a
day
at
work,
because
sometimes
these
kind
of
strategic
roles,
it's
difficult
to
understand
the
value
you
bring
so
going
and
seeing
people
that
you've
really
made
a
difference
to
is
what
kind
of
keeps
me
seeing.
So
that's
probably
my
intro,
but
thank
you
for
having
me
back
in.
A
Thank
you
so
much
Ash
and
you
know
about
Baseline
protocol
and
I'm
glad
that
you're
one
of
the
early
leaders
who
had
agreed
to
at
least
have
a
chat
about
it.
You
know
a
lot
of
lot
of
Enterprise
leaders
when
they
when
they
see
the
blockchain
guys
they
just
they
just
go
in
the
other
direction
these
days,
but
yeah,
especially
these
days.
It's
November
of
2022
right
interesting
times,
so
so
so
yeah
we've
come.
B
A
Long
way
we
just
just
last
two
weeks
we
demonstrated
to
our
community
also
a
sample.
You
know
a
simple
reference:
implementation
for
Baseline,
so
our
core
devs
have
been.
You
know,
they've
been
they've
been.
Hence
you
know,
hands
to
keyword
all
the
time
and
they've
been
doing
great
stuff,
so
we
built
some
libraries
and
India.
We
are
now
ready
for
demos,
so
so
that's
something
which
is
happening
we
have
evolved.
You
know
our
narrative
also
towards
more
of
cyber
security
for
the
Enterprise.
A
You
know
where
you
could
say
it's
it's
more
of
a
cyber
security
protocol,
which
is
utilizing
blockchain
in
a
way
for
multi-party,
workflows
and,
and
you
know,
secure,
multi-party
workflows,
I
think
that
is
something
which
is
really
powerful
and
we've
seen
a
lot
of
interest
from
senior
Executives
in
to
that
effect.
So
you
know
what
we
wanted
to
actually
talk
to
you
about
is
today
in
your
role.
You
know
over
over
I,
don't
know
20
almost
20
years
with,
with
the
with
the.
A
Rap
but
yeah
over
20
years,
Network
group,
so
you
know
we
could
talk
about.
You
know
how
do
banks
and
financial
Financial
organizations
in
general
look
at
systems,
you
know
which
are
into
the
digital
supply
chain
and
if
there
are
any
data
silos
that
you
see
in
in
the
current
scenario,
in
the
current
way,
business
is
done.
B
Yeah,
so
the
short
answer
is
yes:
there
are
many
many
many
many
many
data
silos
in
the
banking
side
to
certainly
Finance
I.
B
Think
especially,
you
know
the
UK
and
European
Banks
and
so
I
guess
some
of
the
American
banks
that
have
been
here
a
while
and
they
later
on
and
they
absorb
other
organizations
over
a
period
of
time,
so
at
that
West
and
RBS
originally
opened
in
17
or
the
18th
century,
so
older
than
the
states
in
some
cases
and
and
so
they've
been
there
a
long
time
and
and
over
time.
B
However,
we've
then
you
know
taken
on
a
product
or
a
bank,
for
you
know
the
commercial
Enterprise
or
for
a
corporate
Enterprise
and
suddenly
you've
got
another
product
and
another
database
which
then
is
feeding
in
and
out
of
core
databases
and
the
challenge
that
brings
is
mainly
kind
of
flexibility
and
Agility
in
use
of
data,
and
so,
for
example,
you
know
if
you've
got
a
retail
customer
who's
who's,
also
a
business
owner
who's.
Also,
then,
you
know
has
Investments,
you
know:
how
do
you
kind
of
Leverage?
B
All
of
that
data
to
have
a
single
view
of
these
customers
is,
is
always
a
challenge
in
in
a
large
organization
and
and
I
think
in
the
UK
we
hold
somewhere
in
the
region
of
a
fifth
of
all
current
accounts,
which
is
somewhere
the
region
of
sort
of
20
million
customers.
So
just
you
know,
I
might
see
my
law,
but
in
terms
of
lines
of
data,
that's
just
ridiculous
and
you've
then
got
inconsistencies
with
data
fields.
You
know
across
different
customer
groups.
B
Current
account
is
looking
for
something,
and
some
of
that
is
driven
by
regulation.
Some
of
it's
driven
by
you
know
what
we're
looking
for
in
terms
of
how
that
customer
is
made
up
and
then
you've
got
mortgages
again.
Very
different
data
set
different
parameters,
we're
looking
for
and
you
cut
you
keep
doing
that
across
the
organizations
and
then
suddenly,
before
you
know
it
you've
got.
You
know,
lots
of
inconsistencies.
B
You've
got
lots
of
data
with
the
same
customer
is
multiple
places,
and
then
you
you
find
it
difficult
then
to
cross
fertilize,
especially
when
it
comes
to
products,
so
you
may
have
say.
For
example,
you
may
have
a
number
of
commercial
businesses
on
the
books
and
you're
providing
Investment
Services
for
them.
Invoicing,
salary,
pay,
Etc,
but
you've
got
none
of
the
employee
records
when
none
of
the
employee
business.
But
you
don't
know
how
to
access
that,
because
you
have
no
idea
what
they
look
like.
B
You
know:
you've
got
tons
and
tons
of
debit
card
transaction
data.
You
know
you're
talking
especially
nowadays.
You
know
each
each
person
is
averaging
between
five
and
ten
debit
card
transactions
a
day
through
you
know
contactless
and
Etc.
So
you
multiply
that
up
by
20
million.
You
multiply
that
then,
by
a
month,
you've
got
massive
Rich
data,
which
tells
you
a
huge
amount
of
things.
Now
you
know
utility
banks
are
putting
out
west
in
in
that
bucket
of
utility.
Banks
and
you'll
see
a
lot
of
big
Banks.
B
They
tend
not
to
leverage
that
data
like
Facebook
would
or
a
you
know,
or
a
Google
order,
Etc,
because
it's
just
not
seen
as
currently
comfortable
to
do
that.
Part
of
that
is
regulation.
Part
of
that
is
because
those
organizations
are
not
set
up
to
use
the
data
in
that
manner,
and
it's
kind
of
it's
used
to
drive
decisioning,
but
certainly
not
used
to
then
drive
income
and
further
across
selling,
so
multiple
challenges
when
it
comes
to
data
in
terms
question.
C
D
It
also
true
that
that
you
know
it's
like
it's
like
if
you
were
to
actually
use
the
the
end.
Consumer
data
you're
basically
are
exposing
yourself
to
every
for
every
violation
with
a
four
percent
Revenue
penalty,
every
for
every
single
violation
right,
so
the
the
the
risk
reward
is
just
simply
not
there.
B
Yeah,
yeah
and
and
you're
not
wrong.
I'm
Jason
and
you
know
the
referencing
gdpr,
which
you
know
the
threat,
is
four
percent
of
Revenue
I've.
Yet
to
see
that
fine
imposed
on
anyone,
even
though
we've
seen
many
breaches,
but
the
the
threat
is
there
and
I
think
the
other
part
of
it
is
the
reputational
risk
that
comes
with
this.
B
So
obviously
kind
of
you
know
you'll
see
in
the
last
year
two
three
years
you
know
Cambridge
analytica,
all
sorts
of
other
other
examples
where
data
has
been
misused
and
when
it
comes
to
banking.
You
know
trust
and
banking
has
to
go
hand
in
hand.
C
Yeah,
because
brands
are
certainly
very
very
much
interested
in
that,
in
fact,
we're
paying
paying.
D
But
since
we're
talking
here
about
Baseline
I
I
want
to
since
we're
talking
about
data
and
data,
centralized
data
honeypots,
given
the
given
the
exponentially
growing
number
of
devices
that
are
actually
connected
to
banking
systems
and
are
becoming
you
know,
transactors
independent
autonomous
transactors
themselves
and
the
fact
that
every
as
we
all
know,
but
no
one
wants
to
admit
that
every
bank
is
is
compromised
at
any
given
point
in
time.
They
just
don't
know
it.
Yet
what?
B
Yeah
and
I'm,
sorry,
you
know
a
cyber
security
expert,
but
our
cyber
security
guys
it's
what
keeps
them
up
at
night,
it's
safe
to
say,
and
you
know
you,
as
you
said,
it's
the
it's,
the
speed
that
it's
growing
and
and
there's
there's
lots
of
kind
of
still
tooling
out
there
there's
lots
of
kind
of
suggested
responses
to
it.
B
But
it's
the
fact,
your
your
vulnerability
area,
what
used
to
be
a
nice
simple
Circle
is
now
no
longer
a
nice,
simple
Circle
and
your
threat.
Vectors
are
not
as
obvious
as
you
would
previously,
though,
and
to
your
point
is
certainly
not
in
your
control
and
that's
kind
of
both
from
the
devices
you've
mentioned,
but
also
the
fact
of
proliferation
of
third
parties,
and
you
know
what
what
used
to
be
in
back
in
the
day
third
party
used
to
be
the
exception
and
they'd
provide
kind
of
odd
services.
B
But
now
a
lot
of
this
sort
of
end-to-end
customer
value
chain
is
provided
by
Third
body
suppliers.
You
know,
we've
got
Financial
Services
who
are
buying
their
payment
sort
of
functionality
with
a
third-party
provider.
B
So
somebody
got
material
elements
of
your
banking
Journey
now
provided
to
you
by
third
party,
and
so
that
creates
a
massive
risk
when
it
comes
to
you
know
anything
cyber
security,
certainly
one
of
it,
you
know
resilience-
is
another
big
one
and
we've
certainly
seen
through
UK
and
European
Regulators
the
focus
on
resilience,
especially
on
customer
value
chain
and
and
how
you
then
give
yourself
comfort
that
if
that
payment
provider
was
to
fail,
then
what
do
you
do?
And
if
the
answer
is
we
we
would
not
be
able
to
provide
the
service.
B
C
Yeah,
because
you
know
the
the
credit
card
compromise,
credit
card
and
debit
cards,
the
source
of
that
is
primarily
third-party
payment
processors
and
not
Banks
them
themselves.
B
Yeah-
and
this
is
where
you
know,
you've
got
a
lot
of
the
sort
of
the
control
so
to
speak
in
this
space
are
all
about.
You
know,
behavioral
Biometrics,
you've
got
you
know
some
of
the
profiling
Tools
in
our
pretty
intelligent
and-
and
you
know,
you'll
see
the
more,
and
this
goes
back
to
the
data
point.
One
of
the
reasons
we
get
approached
quite
a
lot
by
external
third
parties
is
because
we've
got
years
and
years
of
data
on
debit
card
transactions
and
customer
Behavior.
B
You
know
it
looks
at
so
many
different
data
points
that
you
can
start
building
a
picture
of
how
a
customer
will
normally
operate
beyond
the
simple
thing
of
I'm,
not
likely
to
buy
a
hat
at
two
o'clock
on
a
Sunday
from
Florida.
You
know
that
used
to
be
be
old,
school,
obvious
stuff.
Now
it's
far
I'm
sorry
Keith.
B
That
was
not
directed
at
you
by
the
way,
there's
some
lovely
house
in
Florida,
but
it's
it's
more
just
the
fact
that
it's
it's
behavioral,
so
so
there
are
kind
of
control,
so
speak
around
being
more
intelligent
about
when
the
fraud
occurs.
But
you
know,
that's,
that's
reactive,
I
think,
there's
an
acknowledgment
at
the
moment
because
we
don't
have
virtual
puns
out
there
yeah.
You
know
the
functionality
is
there,
but
you
know
it's
a
bit
like
when
contactless
came
out
and
there's
there's
a
delay,
then
in
from
behavior
from
mindset
from
infrastructure.
B
Before
these
things
get
taken
on
and
and
again
you
know
a
recent
trip
to
the
states
still
using
mag
stripe
in
the
states,
which
you
know
blows
my
mind.
Every
time
I
go
to
America.
It
makes
me
very
nervous
when,
when
I
go
to
a
restaurant
and
someone
takes
my
debit
card
away
and
then
three
hours
later
because
of
the
tip
I've
put
on
the
transaction
goes
through
now
in
the
UK
you
just
you
just
wouldn't
do
that,
because
you
know
someone,
someone
would
be
worried
that
you've
taken
the
card
away.
B
So
we
know
that
that's
that's
a
massive
Gap
in
the
sense
that
you
know
someone
sees
your
card,
it
doesn't
take
you
two
seconds
to
take
an
image
of
the
card
and
until
we
get
to
kind
of
virtual
puns
being
more
natural
used,
fraud
is
going
to
occur.
So
then
most
financial
institutions
will
have
a
fraud.
Appetite
they'd
expect
a
certain
loss.
D
So
another
question
that
comes
sort
of
like
to
to
to
you
know
a
bit
of
the
heart
of
of
Baseline
with
which
is
the
the
multi-party
coordination
under
their
their
knowledge,
as
as
agents
start
to
proliferate
right
as
simple
as
I
am
I
I.
Do
you
know
my
Alexa
is
buying
stuff
from
Amazon?
D
B
Yeah
I
mean
it's
a
it's
a
good
question
and
it's
a
it's.
A
current
litigation,
Maya
I
know,
there's
there's
current
conversations
in
various
places
around.
How
do
you?
Where
does
the
blame
for?
B
If
that
does
occur,
and
and
there's
a
there's
a
as
you
said,
you
know
if
you
can't
trust,
whether
it's
Alexa
or
or
Siri,
or
somebody
else
or
it's
a
it's
an
autonomous
device,
which
is
something
transacting
on
your
behalf
or
it's
been,
you
know,
hacked
so
to
speak
and
initiates
the
transaction.
Then,
at
what
point
is
who
at
fault?
B
Because
when
the
fraud
occurs
from
a
banking
perspective,
you
know
the
bank
carries
a
liability
to
a
degree
for
losses
at
some
point,
depending
on
how
it's
occurred
and
third-party
losses
at
the
moment.
B
The
the
you
know,
the
regulars
expect
the
banks
to
refund
customers
because
that's
the
approach
they
take
because
they
don't
see
the
customer
at
fault.
But
at
some
point
you
know,
banks
will
kind
of
say
well
hold
in
a
minute
why
we
left
holding
the
can
all
the
time
when
the
the
exposures
happened
in
something
that's
outside
of
our
control.
B
You
know
in
that
instance,
so
that's
that's
a
kind
of
an
ongoing
discussion
which
I'm,
not
sure
anyone's
got
a
clear
kind
of
view
on
who
should
be
and
where
it
should
sit,
because
it's
quite
clear,
if
it's
a
you
know
a
banking
app
and
where
there's
a
fault.
But
it's
not
so
clear
on
these
other
types
of
devices.
A
And
you
know
what
in
in
fact,
you
know,
let's
try
and
segue
the
discussion
more
towards,
let's
say
our
traditional
supply
chain.
So
you
know,
and
and
you
know
those
were,
those
were
the
kind
of
narratives
that
that
we
intended
to
discuss
here
so
and-
and
you
know,
find
out
what
would
be
the
root
blocks
or-
or
you
know
in
the
positive
sense,
let's
say
considerations
to
keep
in
mind.
A
Let's
say
if,
let's
say
a
bank
or
a
financial
institution
was
going
to
adopt
a
system
which
utilizes
based
on
protocol
or
anything
for
that
matter,
which
is
facilitating,
secure
and
private
multi-party
coordinations.
B
Yeah
so
I,
don't
think
I
think
generally
the
principle
of
improving
security
and
and
improving
the
risk
profile,
I,
don't
think
anyone's
going
to
say
no
to
that
I
think.
That's!
That's
not!
Usually
the
challenge
I
think
there's
a
number
of
things
that,
because
you
know
me
and
and
I'm
sure,
banks
in
general
were
approached
very
often
right,
people
with
magic
pills
to
fix
all
sorts
of
our
Wars
and
problems
and
and
there's
a
number
of
things
that
kind
of
normally
trip
them
up.
So
the
first
one
is
generally
integration.
B
B
You
know
infrastructure,
that's
ancient
and
it's
kind
of
like
you
know,
you're
trying
to
drive
a
Formula
One
car
on
cobbles
and
the
thing
just
kind
of
collapses
immediately
and
and
so
that's
kind
of
our
first
Challenge,
and
we
see
that
a
lot
and
you
know
people
kind
of
come
and
come
with
all
sorts
of
solutions
to
our
problems.
B
The
second
bit,
then,
is
is
the
breadth
of
the
solution
versus
the
risk
we
take
and
I
think.
Sometimes
that's
just
not
clear
as
to
how
the
solution
is
going
to
improve
your
risk
profile
versus
there's
some
risk
over
here
that
you're
now
taking
on
and
and
I
often
find
that
either
it's
not
clear
because
it's
not
understood
by
the
people
providing
service
or
it's
not
clear,
because
it's
not
never
really
been
tested.
B
So
you
don't
necessarily
understand
you
know
you're
having
risk
assessed
it,
so
you
don't
assigned
in
situ
what
risks
it
could
materialize
but
I
think
principally
you
know
I,
don't
think
anyone's
going
to
say
no
to
something
improving
risk,
but
there's
an
element
of
proving
it
testing
it
showing
what
it
does
to
your
risk
profile
and
how
it
kind
of
you
know
improves
versus
what
it
creates
and
then
the
last
probably
thing
is
just
you
know.
We
talked
about
regulation.
B
Unfortunately,
banking
is
highly
regulated
and
anything
and
everything
which
includes
whether
it's
supply
chain,
whether
it's
data,
whether
it's
resilience,
you
know
regulator
is
you
know,
certainly
across
the
UK
and
Europe,
very,
very
kind
of
firm
and
clear
on
that,
and
and
so
that's
the
other
part,
which
is
what
does
this
do
in
terms
of
that
value
chain?
How
does
it
improve
resilience
versus?
Does
it
create
another
dependency
from
a
supply
chain?
B
Etc?
So
there's
probably
a
number
of
kind
of
questions.
If,
if
answers
were
provided,
would
give
people
a
bit
more
Comfort
to
take
the
leap
so
to
speak,.
A
Excellent,
so
we
are
working
on
those
questions.
Thank
you
very
much
Ash
for
for
those
perspectives,
and
you
know
in
a
general
sense.
What
is
what
is
you
know?
What's
a
bank
thinking
or
financial
institution
thinking
when
they
look
at
a
supply
chain,
and
they
say
you
know
what
we
actually
you
know
there
are.
There
are
these
few
pieces
of
information
which
are
still
missing
from
a
transaction
that
we're
seeing
and
yeah.
C
A
Know
and
hence
you
know
there
may
be
an
opportunity
missed
or
or
let's
say,
that
there
are
additional
costs
for
establishing
trust
or
there's
reconciliation,
which
is
happening.
So
do
you
see
those
kind
of
those
kind
of
pockets
as
well.
B
Yeah
I
I
think
so
I
mean
you
know
back
to
that
kind
of
culture,
I
mean
Banks
can
tend
to
be
very
nervous
and
I'll
put
banks
in
kind
of
two
sections.
You've
got
kind
of
what
I
would
consider
to
be
utility
Banks,
which
is
banks
that
have
been
around
there
for
more
than
15
years
versus
the
more
kind
of
you
know,
fintechy
type
Banks
to
have
been
around
for
the
last
sort
of
15
years.
They've
got
very
different
appetite
when
it
comes
to
supply
chain.
B
You
know
traditional
Bankers
would
call
them
tend
to
be
very
nervous
about
provide.
You
know,
sharing
core
services
to
supply
chain,
whether
that's
kind
of
anything
to
do
with
a
payment.
Journey
is
usually
one
very
nervous.
B
Anything
where
the
data
is
externally
shared
is
another
and
anything
we're
kind
of
you
know,
hard
coding
or
coding
is
exposed
to
a
third
party,
so
they
tend
to
be
kind
of
the
three
things
that
sort
of
more
traditional
Banks
get
nervous
about,
whereas
you'll
find
the
more
kind
of
fintechy
banks.
You
know
they'll
just
take
that
in
this
stride,
because
they
probably
built
themselves
with
multiple
sort
of
sections
very
Lego
like
and
therefore
a
lot
of
fintech
banks.
B
B
You
know,
debit
card
authorization
systems,
and
so
they'll
they'll
they'll
be
quite
happy
to
farm
out
those
Services
to
supply
chain,
because
that's
just
the
way
how
quickly
they
get
set
up
because
setting
up
a
bank
and
building
all
the
functionality
in-house
is
very,
very,
very
expensive
keeping
it
maintained
even
more
expensive
aligned
with
a
regulator
even
more
expensive.
B
So
unless
you've
built
that
infrastructure,
it's
hard
to
kind
of
come
into
the
market
and
build
that,
so
people
tend
to
Outsource
that
and
what
banks
are
starting
to
do
now
is
start
becoming
the
supplier
almost
rather
than
you
know,
being
the
recipient.
So
they've
got.
You
know,
Decades
of
experience
and
payments
right,
so
you
so
you've
got
that
you've
got
the
credibility.
What
they
haven't
got
is
the
ability
to
provide
that
as
a
product
and
to
go
right.
B
We've
been
doing
payments
for
hundreds
of
years
where
the
payments
provided
for
the
government,
so
you
can
trust
us
right
now.
Imagine
you
could
sell
that
product
and
imagine
you
could
provide
that
product
to
you
know
a
new
bank.
You
know
a
John
Lewis
or
a
or
a
Walmart
who
suddenly
go
right.
We
want
some
ability
to
do
payments
through
the
you
know,
their
apps
or
their
end-to-end
Journey,
so
suddenly
kind
of
you've
got
bankster
becoming
the
supplier.
B
The
other
thing
I
think
you
know
your
point
about
kind
of
data
and
and
how
you
get
access
to
different
data
points
and
how
that
feeds
in
gives
you
a
bigger
picture.
I,
don't
know
if
you're
familiar
with
embedded
Finance,
but
you
know,
embedded
finances
is
now
the
other
big
shift
in
in
the
financial
industry.
So
you
know,
if
you
go
to
most
places,
you
know
you
don't
necessarily
are
aware.
B
That's
where
your
value
is
because
that's
the
thing
you
see
and
that's
where
that
where
the
income
is,
and
so
if
you
suddenly
don't
see
that
data,
but
you
just
see
your
the
end
of
it,
you
don't
necessarily
know
what
what
period
on
that
value
chain.
Did
you
lose
the
customer?
B
You
know
what
opportunity
did
you
miss
along
that
value
chain
that
you
could
have
taken
because
you've
got
the
product
you
just
for
whatever
reason
didn't
Market
it
appropriately?
You
won't
build
in
the
journey
appropriately
or
you
didn't.
You
didn't
kind
of
expose
yourself
to
that
customer
at
the
right
opportunity
and
that's
a
huge,
valuable
piece
of
data.
If
you
could,
if
you
could
see
that,
but
it's
difficult
to
see
because
you're
then
having
multiple
data
sources
across
multiple
suppliers.
B
D
So
one
one
other
question
that
I
had-
and
this
is
sort
of
like
moving
you
know,
partially
away
from
from
from
from
the
retail
side
and
more
to
the
to
the
to
the
court
to
core
to
like
banking,
around
financing
and
then
and
then
subsequently
I'll
go.
You
know
derive
from
that
in
the
Capital
Market
that,
where,
where
banks
are
active,
the
the
lack
of
of
verifiability
of
the
underlying
data
in
in
in
the
instruments
is
is,
is
a
significant
issue
right.
D
It's
like
it's
like
you
know
it's
it's.
D
When
I,
when
I,
you
know
apply
for
a
mortgage,
I
have
I'm
I
have
a
I
have
a
lender
in
between
that,
basically,
is
is
just
a
middleman
between
between
a
bank
right
unless
the
bank
provide
the
loan
itself,
but
I
need
to
reveal
a
lot
of
sensitive
data
to
that
lender
and
I
have
to
trust
that
that
lender
is
able
to
manage
that
data
appropriately,
which
very
often
is
not
the
case
yeah.
D
So
you
know:
do
you
see
that
there
is
an
opportunity
for
for
for
for
banks
to
step
in
and
cut
out
those
those
lenders
for,
especially
for,
for
you
know,
Consumer
loans,
not
necessarily
large
ones,
but
smaller
ones
as
well,
where
you
know
you
don't
necessarily
have
to
provide.
So
if,
if
you
were
to
use,
you
know
the
concept
of
like
they're,
not
proofs
right
where
you're,
you
know
where
you
say:
hey
I
need
to
see
your
banking
statement.
I
need
to
know
whether
you
have
you
know.
D
You
know
over
20
000
pounds
in
your
in
your
in
your
in
your
bank.
Account
or
you
have
you
know
like
it's
like
you,
you
have
you
know
steady
income,
etc,
etc.
But
that
means
I
have
to
reveal
data
that
is
enormously
sensitive.
Yeah
right,
where
is,
do
you
think,
there's
an
opportunity
for
for
for
banks
to
to
to
say?
Well?
Actually
we
don't
want
that
data
as
long
as
you
can,
you
can
provide
us
with
with
proof
of
correctness.
D
Then
that's
fine
right.
So
basically,
it
proof
yes,
I
can
prove
to
you
yet
that
my
bank
account
is
is
is
is
over,
is
over
20
000
pounds.
B
Yeah
so
show
Answer
is,
would
that
be
valuable?
Yes,
so
that
there's
a
number
of
various
initiatives
going
I've,
certainly
seen
plenty
of
fintechs
across
Europe
trying
to
do
something
similar,
calling
it
kind
of
digital
ID
and
various
versions
of
it,
and
so
at
the
moment,
what
they're
focusing
on?
Obviously,
if
you've
got
a
customer
and
you've
just
joined,
you
know
want
to
join
the
bank.
We'll
need
your
proof
of
ID
we'll
need
your
passport.
B
Your
driving
license,
all
sorts
of,
as
you
said,
personal
sensitive
information
and
as
people
are
becoming
more
kind
of
acutely
aware
of
their
data
and
and
the
value
of
their
data.
People
are
less
likely
to
share
that
data,
especially
kind
of
there's
a
definite
generation.
Point
on
that,
and
so
people
are
now
producing
kind
of
digital
IDs.
Where
they're
effectively
saying
you
know
so,
I'm
Ash,
Mohammed
I
provide
my
information
to
this
digital
ID
provider
and
I
provide
it
once
and
then
they
create
a
digital
passport.
B
For
me,
which
has
all
that
information
in
there
and
then
when
you
know
the
bank
says
I
need
to
validate
you
and
I
need
to
your
proof
of
address.
You
need
to
know
your
ID,
etc,
etc.
Then,
then,
that
acts
as
validation,
The
Challenge,
as
always
with
these
things
is,
is
you
know,
legalities
of
Fraud
and
identity
theft?
And
who,
then
is
blame
our
fault
for
that?
B
If
the?
If
the
thing
that's
carrying
the
digital
ID
says
I
confirm
this
person's
income
is
a
hundred
thousand
dollars
a
year
and
they
were
the
ones
who
were
tricked,
and
then
we
take
a
you.
Some
give
that
loan
to
that
customer
based
on
100
000
and
that
loan
then
fails
because
it
really
don't
earn
a
hundred
thousand,
they
earn
less.
B
Then
you
slowly
get
into
difficulty
because
you've
relied
on
that
information
of
that
third
party
to
make
that
decision
and
now
that
that
loan
has
gone
into
default,
who's,
who's
at
fault
and-
and
so
it's
things
like
that,
which
make
people
very
nervous
about
sort
of
Outsourcing
dated
decisions
like
that,
because,
ultimately,
a
regulator
would
not
go
to
the
third
party.
A
regulator
would
go
to
the
bank
and
say
I
couldn't
care
less,
who
you
used.
B
It's
your
responsibility
to
do
that,
and
so
Banks
therefore
become
very
nervous
about
that,
and
they
want
to
see
the
data
and
they
want
to
validate
the
information,
and
then
they
want
to
be
able
to
track
that.
Otherwise
they
are
Outsourcing
that
risk
at
the
moment,
it's
too
big
a
risk
and
and
Banks,
not
necessarily
trust
that
that's
going
to
be
correct
or
or
Etc,
so
that
that's
the
big
kind
of
blocker
at
the
moment,
I
would
say
yes.
D
Think
so
you're,
so
so
so
it's
more
of
of
of
of
of
the
the
that
the
that
the
that
the
data
that
is
used
is
not
necessarily
trapped.
It
right.
So
it's
like
you,
you,
even
though
you
don't
you
know
if
I,
if
I
present
to
you
a
a
bank
statement
with
my
name
and
an
address
and
and
the
banking
history,
then
what
yeah.
B
B
And
I,
don't
think
you
know
and
I
don't
disagree
and
I
think
that's
my
point
about,
but
the
bank
takes
that
risk.
That's
the
difference
here!
You're
Outsourcing
the
risk
here
so
part
part
of
what
you
know,
especially
when
it
comes
to
lending
in
the
UK.
Generally
speaking,
you
hold
the
current
account
with
the
place.
You've
got
your
mortgage,
and
so,
if
you
said
to
me,
you
won
a
hundred
thousand.
B
Well
we'll
be
a
validate
that
because
we'll
see
your
salary
coming
in
so
so
there's
things
you
can
kind
of
validate
because
you
know
to
get
a
mortgage
in
most
European
Banks
you'll
need
to
hold
some
level
of
current
account.
You
know
a
transaction
account
with
them,
so
they
can
validate
your
address.
They
can
validate
your
ID.
B
They
can
do
checks
like
that
themselves
to
to
make
sure
that
that
what
you've
said
is
true,
but
if,
if
you're
100
relying
on
a
third
party
to
have
done
those
validation
checks
for
you,
then
that's
a
huge
amount
of
trust
you're.
Putting
in
a
third
party,
that's
accurate,
whereas
the
third
party
is
not
carrying
the
risk.
If
that's
fraudulent,
you
still
carry
the
risk
and
until
that
changes
I
think
banks
are
going
to
be
very
nervous
about
that.
D
So
I
yeah
I
can
PR
I
can
prove
to
you
that
I
hold
I
I
could
prove
to
you
under
in
their
own
knowledge
that
that
I
have
a
a
a
a
a
checking
account
with
a
balance
of
over
a
hundred
thousand
thousand
thousand
dollars.
If
you
knew
that
the
digital
signature,
that
is,
that
that
is,
that
has
been
validated,
belongs
to
or
that
that
that
identifier
over
the
signature
belongs
to
to
a
bank
and
and
that
that
the
key
that
was
that
was
used
for
the
signature
belongs
to
that.
D
To
that
to
that
bank,
which
happens
all
the
time
in
in
interbank
transfers
right.
So
it's
just
that
you
don't
get
to
see
the
data
of
the
individual
right,
the
underlying
the
underlying
data
that
that's
the
key
thing
there
is
a
there
is
a
trusted
Source
yeah
right,
but
the
data
is
fully
obfuscated.
It
just
says
there
is
yes,
this
individual,
you
know
had
the
bank
account
with
this
bank
and
it
had
over
a
hundred
thousand
pounds
in
it
yeah
right,
and
you
know
that
the
bank
exists.
It's
it's
instructed
it
well
regulated
right.
B
Yeah
I
think
I.
Think
for
things
like
you
know,
opening
up
an
account,
I
think
I,
don't
see
that
being
too
material
an
issue
because
you
know
we're
currently
going
to
you
know
Experian
or
Equifax
today
anyway,
so
we're
kind
of
going
to
an
Outsourcing
to
validate
it.
So
I
think
the
the
opening,
an
account
is
probably
less
of
the
worry.
It's
a
lending
decision
is
where
it
gets
complicated
because
lending
decision
then
also
says:
what's
your
outgoing,
you
know
what
all
sorts
of
other
financial
information
is
required.
Beyond.
B
You
know
just
the
basic
information
but
I
think
if
you
had
something
which
said
this
customers
approached
you
and
their
bank
with
Citibank
and
they've
been
validated
as
a
customer
and
all
the
all
the
information
you
require
is
being
validated.
Can
you
just
onboard
them
I
think
if
there
was,
as
you
said,
trust
which
would
need
to
be
underpinned
by
some
minimum
control
environment
some
minimum?
B
B
What,
if
they've,
had
a
major
control
failure
on
their
data
six
weeks
earlier?
How
do
you
then
know
that?
How
do
you
then
know
that
the
data
you're
receiving
is
accurate
because
they've
just
had
a
a
massive
issue
or
they've
had
a
Cyber
attack
or
a
hacking
attack?
So.
B
D
So
that's
the
same
thing
right
Swift
is
a
is
a
the
trust,
Network.
B
Yeah,
yeah
and
and
Swift
has
its
challenges.
If
you
look
at
some
of
the
cyber
losses
on
and
throw
losses
on,
Swift
they're
huge,
and
so
but
it's
it's
one
of
these
things
you
have
to
do
you
know
well
what
what
else
do
you
use
in
the
absence
of
Swift?
There's,
not
many
Alternatives.
B
However,
there
is
alternatives
to
validating
customers,
so
I
think
there's
things
where
you're
forced
to
use
a
service
because
you're
not
going
to
operate
internationally,
then
you're
not
going
to
transfer
money
across
versus
there's
things
where
you've
got
a
choice
and
you
can
make
a
risk-based
decision
and
as
soon
as
people
kind
of
get
nervous
about
that
risk-based
decision,
if
they
don't
have
to
do
it,
they'll
avoid
it.
Why?
Why
put
your
expose
yourself
to
risk
unnecessarily,
whereas
at
the
moment,
what
we're
not
seeing?
B
Is
customers
going
I'm
not
going
to
share
the
state
here?
So
what
you're
not
seeing
is
people
kind
of
voting
with
their
feet
because
there's
an
expectation
if
you
open
a
bank
account
you're
going
to
have
to
share
personal
information
that
that
that
that
hasn't
changed
in
any
degree,
whether
you
open
it
on
a
mobile
app
or
in
in
a
branch
or
on
the
telephone.
You,
you
fully
expect
I'm
going
to
share
personal
data
with
a
bank,
but
you
do
that
knowing
I
trust
them
versus.
B
If
you
know,
Facebook
asked
me
for
my
salary
details,
you
know
I
wouldn't
share
it,
even
if
they're
a
trusted
and
they're
going
to
be
a
bank
and
all
the
rest
of
it.
B
So
there's
there's
already
this
kind
of
cultural
thing
with
banking
that
comes
with
inherent
trust,
but
I
think
you
know
until
it
becomes
mandated
or
until
it
becomes.
You
have
no
other
choice.
D
Yeah,
my
natural
intention
would
be
I've
already
proven
it
to
someone
else.
Why
do
I
need
to
prove
it
again?
Why
do
I
need
to
share
my
data
again
and
again
and
again
exactly
the
same
data
exactly
the
same
thing
yeah,
where
I
have
zero
control
over
it
right,
one
one
that
is
one
that
is,
that
is
done
so
I'm
I'm,
just
multiplying
my
my
my
risk
surface.
So
from
an
individual
point
of
view,
I
would
I
would
I
would
say
and
from
also
probably
from
a
regulatory
point
of
view.
D
This
is
this
is
gonna
happen
where
you're
you
you,
you
know
once
you've
done
it
once
then
you
have
that
proof.
Point
right,
then
you
don't
have
to
do
it
again
unless
something
something
something
something
changes
right,
so
that
that
is
that
and
I
see
that
that
that
is
that.
That
is
gonna
happen,
because
it's
it's
it's
too
big
a
risk.
Yeah.
B
B
I
think-
and
that
may
happen
in
the
future
at
the
moment
you
know
the
the
mass
majority
of
customers
miss
this,
it's
an
inconvenience
for
them
that
they're
quite
happily
overcome
because
I
think
you
know
for
those
people
in
the
banking
industry.
We
get
very
excited
about
this
stuff.
But
for
a
customer,
a
bank
is
an
invisible
thing.
You
know
until
it's
a
problem
and
until
you
go
to
the
ATM
and
you
can't
draw
money
or
your
debit
card
doesn't
work
or
something
happens.
B
B
You
know
whether
they
move
to
you're
you're
asking
this
data
as
an
industry
too
many
times,
I
think
that's
it!
That's
it
that's
a
whole
another!
Another
few
years
before
we
see
that.
D
And
and
what
about
the
systemic
risk
that
that
that
Banks
carry
because
of
the
lack
of
of
information,
so
exposure
in
the
capital
markets?
D
D
But
you're
happily
taking
on
the
risk
because
you're
because
you're,
because
you're
you're,
you're
you're,
you're,
you're,
you're,
you're
trading
on
the
margin
right
and
you're
you're
you're
you're,
building
your
your
building,
You're
Building,
You're,
Building
leverage
right
so
on
the
on
the
on
the
on
the
retail
consumer
side.
Every
you
know
everything
is
is
is
is,
is,
is
tightly
bolted
down,
but
on
the
institutional
side,
the
the
the
systemic
risk
is
is
is
is
is
is
build
up
which
will
eventually
spill
over
to
the
to
the
end
consumer
side.
B
Yeah
and
there's
there's
two
interesting
things
that
have
happened
since
2008,
which
which
kind
of
mitigate
that
to
a
degree.
So
the
first
thing
is
you'll,
probably
have
noticed
and
I,
don't
know
what
it's
like
in
the
States,
but
a
lot
of
banks
in
Europe.
You
know
deal
leverage
their
risk
in
institutional
banking.
You
know
if
you,
if
you
look
at
the
scale
of
take
Barclays
50
of
their
income,
was
through
institutional
banking
through
their
wealth
division
prior
to
2008..
Now
it's
I'm
in
the
region
of
you
know
less
than
10.
B
The
other
thing
I
think
you
know
your
point
about
diluting
or
or
or
or
that
kind
of
that
Viral
effect
on
your
retail
position
is
a
thing
called
ring,
fencing
now
across
Europe
I,
don't
know
again
if
it's
in
the
States,
but
a
retail
bank
and
an
Institutional
Bank
have
to
be
legally
and
financially
separated.
B
So
you
can't,
you
can't
use
capital
from
one
to
invest
in
another,
so
you're
in
theory,
every
Bank,
your
institutional
arm
could
fail
miserably
and
it
wouldn't
affect
your
reach
to
an
artist
stress
tested
every
year
externally,
so
that
that
was
as
a.
D
Direct
you
don't
have
that
that
was
that
was
abandoned
in
90s,
thick
97
right
when,
when
when
Banks,
it
was
in
effect,
as
as
because
of
the
of
the
of
the
Great
Depression,
but
that
was
abandoned.
Now
you
just
have
to
stress
tests,
but
you
still,
you
know,
retail
Banks
can
still
have
significance.
D
Investment
arms
JPMorgan,
Chase,
yeah,
Wells,
Fargo,
Bank
of
America,
so
you
know
it's
like
Europe
issue
that
all
at
once
right,
if,
if,
if,
if
you
have
systemic
contagion
from
the
from
from
the
U.S
or
from
Asia,
for
that
for
that
yeah
for
that
for
that
matter,
because
there
there's
also
not
a
consistent
regulatory
environment
where
that
needs
to
be
separated.
You're,
it
doesn't
matter
you're
screwed,.
B
You
know
once
if
we
get
another
2007
I
mean
there's
only
so
much
tier
one
ratios
and
capital
can
protect
you
against.
You
know:
systemic
failure
of
the
the
whole
infrastructure
and
and
the
other
bit
that
again,
I,
don't
know
what
it's
like
in
the
States.
But
you
know
tier
one:
Capital
ratios
in
the
UK
are
15
.,
so
the
amount
of
capital
Banks
hold
in
Europe
and
the
UK
is
a
ridiculous
number.
It's
it's.
It's
a
huge
amount
and
the
other
bit
is
they're
they're,
almost
zero
percent.
B
Looking
to
the
wholesale
market
for
funding
for
Lending,
it's
almost
100
savings
to
loans,
so
you
kind
of
you
you're,
not
necessarily
relying
on
the
Capital
Market.
But
you
know
if
suddenly
the
final
release
went
down
and
States
went
down
at
the
same
time
again:
Europe's
tiny
in
comparison
when
you
look
at
the
total
amount
of
capital,
so
it's
always
going
to
be
impacted.
I
mean
there's
nothing
you're
going
to
be
able
to
do
to
protect
that,
but.
D
You're
still
happily,
Lending
you're,
still
like
happily
lending
to
to
to
institutions
in
the
overnight
paper
Market
using
collateral,
even
though
no
held
at
a
at
a
at
like
you
know
a
third,
a
third
party
bang
like
standard,
but
it's
it's.
D
You
you're
still
taking
collateral
on
the
word
of
the
of
the
other
bank
without
having
visibility
into
into
the
actual
quality,
because
you're
still
relying
on
on
on
on
on
the
quality
assessment
of
Moody's
and
so
forth,
again,
multi-party
coordination,
where
you
will
have
no
visibility
into
whether
there
is
actually
correctness
in
in
in
in
what
it's
done.
So
the
digital
supply
chain
of
data
is
is
broken
and
therefore
you
are
incurring
systemic
risk
because
of
that.
Because
of
that
behavior.
B
Yeah
I
mean
I,
can't
talk
for
the
industry
Andrea,
so
I'm,
not
that
big
and
smart,
but
I
mean
certainly
kind
of
for
the
the
banks.
B
B
But
that's
that's
a
risk
you
take
in
the
finance
industry
whenever
you
you
go
to
the
wholesale
markets
and
whenever
you
do
any
lending
or
investing
in
that
space,
which
is
goes
back
to
the
point
you
you
separate
those
two
parts
of
the
organization.
So
if
one
fails,
it
fails
and
and
the
other
thing
again
I
don't
know
if
this
legislation
is
found
its
way
across
the
ocean.
But
you
know
we
have
ocir
and
resolution
in
in
the
UK
and
Europe
as
well,
which,
again
what
it
effectively
says.
B
Is
you
actually
look
at
your
organization?
And
you
say
if
that
limb
wants
to
completely
fail
right?
Can
you
operate
not
just
from
a
financial
perspective,
but
you
know
your
supply
chain.
What,
if
that
whole
element
of
supply
chain
fails,
could
you
still
operate?
What,
if
that
for
technical
infrastructure?
That's
operate,
advice
that
supply
chain
Fields?
B
Could
you
operate
and
what
they
effectively
do
through
these
stress
testing
is
they
can
a
hack
off
a
limb
and
they
say,
could
the
hole
survive
if
we
hacked
off
that
limb
and
at
what
point,
when
we're
hacking
off
these
limbs,
are
you
impacting
consumer
funds
and
and
that's
their
concern,
which
is
at
what
point
is
there
effectively?
B
You
know
a
run
on
the
bank,
where
you're
now
not
able
to
return
all
the
funds
to
the
customers
that
you
hold
and
that's
kind
of
what
they
get
to
and
they
keep
kind
of
hacking
away
till
they
get
to
a
bit
and
and
then
they
either
feel
comfortable
that
you've
got
it
in
control
or,
if
you
don't,
you
know,
there's
plenty
of
you
know
section
1066s,
as
we
call
them
across
most
of
the
European
banks
for
failures
in
in
that
end-to-end
Journey,
where
there
can't
evidence
that
or
they're
not
sufficiently
protected
against
that,
and
it's
one
of
the
key
things
you
know
the
pra
is
certainly
in
the
UK
will
talk
to
us
very
regularly
about
because
it's
a
concern
and
the
risk
you
called
and
Andreas
is
one
of
many
risks
that
could
lead
to
that
systemic
failure.
B
So
it's
definitely
kind
of
a
front
and
center.
So
anything,
that's
in
that
space
that
could
mitigate
that
I
I,
don't
see
anyone
saying
no
to
it.
A
Awesome
awesome
and
you
know
Ash
I
would
like
you
to.
You
know
there
was
an
anecdote.
You
were
you
were
saying,
but
just
before
we
started
the
live
stream
so
which
was
about
doing
business
and
managing
risk.
A
B
Exactly
it's
human
nature,
isn't
it,
which
is
you
know,
prior
prior
to
kind
of
2007,
2008
and
probably
2012
as
well?
You
know
the
focus
was
kind
of
driving
Revenue
and
regardless
of
the
risk,
because
the
revenue
outweighed
the
risk
in
all
cases
and
and
that
kind
of
probably
plays
to
your
point
Andreas,
where
you
know
the
investment
arm
of
the
bank
kind
of
almost
protected
or
or
hit
what
was
going
on
in
the
rest
of
the
organization.
B
Whether
there
was
systemic
failures
in
systems,
all
sorts
of
things
were
going
on
regulatory
fines
all
ignored,
because
the
income
was
hiding
that
from
an
investigational,
Banking
and
then
2007
2008
happened
and
and
then
you
know,
we
had
some
major
bank
failures
across
the
world
and
then
suddenly
you
know
income
strangely
enough,
certainly
obviously
from
a
regular
perspective
and
a
lot
of
the
senior
boards
across
the
most
of
the
banks.
I'm
aware
of
the
focus
is
now
resilient.
B
The
focus
is
around
you
know,
consumers
and
and
the
income
strangely
enough
kind
of
is
secondary
clearly
to
shareholders.
That's
the
wrong
way
around.
B
But
for
you
know
what
you
see
now
as
to
how
Banks
discuss
and
talk
about
this,
it's
all
about
resilience
because
they
know
how
close
they
were
to
just
completely
failing
and
and
as
much
as
kind
of
corporate
memory
tends
to
be
short,
that
certainly
kind
of
left.
A
big
scar,
as
you
know,
2008
2007
so,
and
it
kind
of
helps.
B
The
Regulators
have
not
let
go
since
then,
because
Regulators
tend
to
have
a
spike
and
then
they
tend
to
ease
off,
but
certainly
The
Regulators
across
Europe
I've
I've
not
taken
the
foot
off
that
ball
and
and
it's
a
constant
discussion
around
evidencing
everything.
So
income
is
kind
of
almost
secondary,
so
people
don't
chase
income.
They
look
for
ways
to
improved
control
environment
with
a
much
more
steadier
income
and
it's
about
kind
of
patience
and
long
game
rather
than
you
know,
trying
to
chase
the
big
bucks.
A
Management
for
banking,
I
think
I.
Think
it's
it's.
It's
been
awesome
having
you
Ash.
Thank
you
so
much
for
sharing
your
thoughts
and
we're
almost
at
the
top
of
the
hour.
So.
A
B
I
think
there's
plenty
of
kind
of
opportunities,
both
from
a
risk
management
perspective
and
a
and
just
from
a
commerciality
perspective,
so
I
think
there's
certainly
kind
of
legs
in
what
your
attempting
and
I
think.
It's
kind
of
you
know,
as
you
said,
it's
finding
opportunities
to
test
this
now
and
and
and
prove
some
of
it
and
and
I
think
you
know
the
aspiration
you're
aiming
at
is
the
right
thing.
I
think
my
from
experience
of
banking.
B
It's
you
kind
of
need
to
build
a
story
to
get
people
there.
I
think
aspirational.
Ideas
are
great
to
have
a
vision
to
point
to,
but
people
don't
understand
the
journey
there
and
they're,
certainly
not
as
passionate
or
as
knowledgeable
as
you
guys
are
on.
B
This
call
it's
about
how
you,
how
you
hook
them
along
that
Journey,
because
at
some
point,
when
you're
talking
to
CEOs
and
cro
across
the
industry,
you
need
to
kind
of
talk
their
language
about
what's
important
to
them
and
some
of
the
things
I
kind
of
talked
about
earlier
on.
That
would
be
immediate
concerns
for
them
because
they
all
know
you
know
anything
that
is
going
to
improve
their
risk
profile.
B
They
are
not
going
to
say
no
to
as
long
as
it
overcomes
all
of
the
other
things,
but
no
I
think
thank
you
again
for
your
time
and
your
questions
and
your
interest.
A
Thank
you.
Thank
you
very
much,
Ash
a
little
bit
of
chat
for
the
Baseline
community
so
do
do
subscribe
to
the
YouTube
channel
if
you're
not
already
subscribed
and
Baseline
having
protocol.org
to
get
Baseline
and
get
involved.
There
are
two
important
buttons
there
get
involved
in
get
free
slide
besides
that
the
next
week,
actually,
the
end
of
this
week,
I'm
going
to
be
in
Vietnam,
representing
Baseline
and
and
talking
to
through
to
Builders
out
there.
A
There
are
a
lot
of
venture
funds
which
I'm
seeing
that
they're
attending
that
event
a
lot
of
Builders
as
well.
So,
let's
hope
to
get
some
more
attention
from
that
part
of
the
world
and
yeah
I
will
give
more
update
on
the
next
week's
show.
A
You
know
to
to
some
extent.
You
know.
I
would
also
like
to
use
this
opportunity
as
an
as
a
call
for
more
speakers,
because
there
is
an
account
aggregators
ecosystem
being
developed
in
India.
The
account
aggregators
are
somewhat
acting
at
the
same
middle
layer
that
we
were
talking
about
where
they
would
interface
with
the
banks.
They
would
help
customer
onboarding
via
checks.
They
could
actually
just
do
checks,
so
they
they
just
give
responses
based
on
the
customer's
relationship
with
a
particular
bank.
So
what
they're
doing
is
they're
saying?
A
A
So
if
any
of
you
could
connect
me
to
somebody
from
the
account
aggregatory
ecosystem
within
India,
either
from
a
regulator
side
or
from
a
provider
side,
please
do
we
would
love
to
have
them
on
the
slide,
show
and
discuss
opportunities
to
explore.
Baseline
with
that.
So
that's
why
you
know.
That's
all
for
today's
show.
Thank
you
very
much
again
for
everybody
who
tuned
in
I'm
gonna
bring
back
the
the
tune
that
we
all
love
the
most.
A
And
this
is
how
we
sign
off
for
today's
show.
Thank
you
very
much
once
again
for
everybody
who
tuned
in
and
everybody
who's
live
with
us
in
the
studio,
see
you
next
week.