►
From YouTube: The Baseline Show: Legal chat with Ben Bukari
Description
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A
A
Hello,
everybody
welcome
to
our
wednesday
may
11th
baseline
show
thank
you
for
tuning
in
or
joining
our
live
studio
audience.
Today
we
will
have
a
legal
themed
baseline
show
with
our
guest
speaker,
benjamin
bukhari,
so
I
will
first
hand
over
to
ben
to
introduce
himself
and
then
we'll
we'll
go
through
a
rough
set
of
topics
we
outlined
and
also
just
open
the
floor
to
the
others.
In
this
call
we
have
a
few
other
legal
community
members
joining
us
today
in
law,
school
and
other
backgrounds.
So
ben,
please
introduce
yourself.
B
Excellent
well,
thank
you.
So
now,
hey
everyone.
My
name
is
benjamin
bukhari.
I
am
an
attorney.
I've
been
licensed
for
about
10
years,
I'm
from
auburn
hills,
michigan
and
I've
done
a
little
bit
of
everything.
In
my
career.
I
started
out
as
a
litigation,
defense
attorney
defending
corporations
and
municipalities
and
localities,
and
then,
after
that,
I
made
the
jump
to
transactional
work.
I
have
done
work
for
some
of
the
major
consulting
firms
in
the
world,
specifically
scopes
to
enterprise
risk
management,
capital
markets
broker,
dealer
services.
B
I've
done
some
telecommunications
work
with
the
transition
from
4
to
5g
and
then
most
recently
I
was
the
lead
attorney
for
a
legal
team
for
a
company
called
dq
systems.
They
produce
digital
accessibility,
software
and
services
for
html,
mobile
web
and
native
ios
and
android
and
they're
based
out
of
virginia.
B
However,
what
brings
me
here
today
and
what
I
do
with
sonal?
The
ea
is
the
ceo
and
founder
of
a
company
called
abachi
inc,
and
that
is
a
digital
asset
startup.
You
know
as
we
transition
and
embrace
web3.
You
know
I
figured
now
is
the
time
to
make
the
jump,
and
so,
in
collaboration
with
the
eea
and
sono,
and
some
people
on
this
call.
You
know
we're
really
focused
on
promoting
use
and
adoption
of
both
the
ethereum
mainnet
and
enterprise
president.
A
B
Sure
you
know,
I
think
it
starts
probably
midway
through
my
career,
but
my
real
experience
is
what
I
did
in
my
last
job
with
dq
and
that
was
working
with
companies
all
around
the
world
with
standing
up
infrastructure,
licensing
software
and
working
with
business
teams.
You
know
starting
the
very
beginning
with
inbound
and
outbound
sales
development
through
the
very
tail
end,
so
that
would
include
development
of
services,
engineering,
information,
security
and
then
even
up
to
the
c-suite,
when
you're
looking
at
establishing
budgets
and
spend
based
upon
monthly
or
quarterly
targets.
B
When
you
look
at
what
we
see
today
and
as
we
delve
into
the
baseline
protocol,
which
is
really
synchronized
business
logic
and
confidential
data
processing
involving
the
ethereum
mainnet,
it's
very
very
important
that
we
build
this
new
web3
landscape
in
a
manner
that's
going
to
address
risk
management
and
the
reason
is
because
of
the
security
profiles
and
the
data
that's
being
handled.
You
know
we're
a
digital
world.
Everyone
probably
in
this
call
most
definitely
has
an
iphone.
You
know
or
an
android
and
there's
not
much.
B
You
can't
do
on
those
devices,
and
so
as
we
transition
that
and
launch
into
web3,
you
know
the
real
focus
is
piercing
different
markets
and
demographics
and
lowering
barriers
to
entry
for
participants,
and
in
order
to
do
that,
it's
not
only
simplifying
a
lot
of
the
processes
that
we
have
and
that's
going
to
be
done
through.
You
know:
smart
contract
automation
for
one,
but
also
migrating
this
new
technology,
while
also
balancing
the
risk
that
is
involved.
B
So
you
know,
I
guess
we
could
start
by.
You
know
we're
looking
at
processing
personal
data
and
that's
involving
the
ethereum
mainnet.
You
know
a
lot
of
these
risks
are
brought
about
through
the
commercialization
of
nfcs.
You
know,
or
digital
id
programs
and
d5
as
well,
because
those
different
use
cases
are
likely
to
involve
personal
information.
B
B
A
lot
of
companies
employ
different
tools
for
logging,
metrics
and
tracing
and
those
are
hosted
on
various
clouds
or
even
deployed
on-prem,
and
so
what
we're
going
to
see
a
lot
of
in
the
future
is
hybrid
cloud
or
multi-cloud
to
address
regional
data
localization
and
that's
important,
because
the
data
privacy
landscape
is
very
different
throughout
the
entire
world,
using
the
united
states
and
uk.
You
know
as
an
example,
I'm
sure
everyone
has
heard
of
gdpr.
B
B
But
when
you
actually
stand
up
these
instances
and
basically,
instead
of
using
like
we
did
today
with
on-premise,
which
is
much
more
expensive
than
cloud,
you
can
actually
create
multi-tenant
instances
that
are
partitioned
and
the
reason
you
do
that
is
because
of
the
data
that
you're
storing.
I
you
can't
co-mingle
proprietary,
non-public
information.
You
know
at
the
corporate
level
or
with
their
employees
with
specific
data.
So
the
way
that
you
could
deploy
that
with
multi-tenant
instances
throughout
the
world,
you
would
have
private
knowns
nodes
that
would
maintain
copies
of
the
public
ledger.
B
You
could
have
secure
vault
storage
and
then
third-party
admin
privileges
for
auditors.
You
know
information
security
teams,
if
that's
external,
you
know
that
would
be
for
pen
testing
penetration
testing
of
both
the
infrastructure
and
the
applications,
and
then
that
will
enable
companies
to
scale
through
hybrid
deployment
models.
You
know
one
example
would
be
container
orchestration,
like
kubernetes,
for
example,
that
in
and
of
itself
through
the
use
of
declarative
apis.
You
know
you
can
bootstrap
the
clusters
and
you
can
simplify
the
provisioning,
the
upgrading
and
the
monitoring.
C
Hey
ben,
I
I've
got
a
question
for
you.
This
is
john
walker,
so
one
of
the
trickiest
things
for
people
to
get
their
heads
around,
I
think
mainly
because
of
the
the
heritage
of
the
baseline
protocol.
Work.
Being
you
know
a
bunch
of
you
know,
ethereum
folks,
is
we
conflated
a
lot
with
crypto
or
with
with
blockchain,
which
drives
me
crazy,
because
it's
at
this
point
certainly
almost
almost
nothing
to
do
with
either
of
those
things
right.
C
It
is
simply
using
a
blockchain
as
bulletin
board,
and
you
don't
even
have
to
do
that.
You
can
use
any
state
machine
to
beat
the
bulletin
board
for
zero
knowledge
proofs
that
signal
third
parties
to
do
things
without
sending
them
the
actual
clear
text
right.
So
you-
and
I
have
you
know
you
know
some
common
data.
C
We
need
to
prove
that
we
have
the
same
data
like
an
invoice
and
we
need
to
prove
something
about
that
data
to
jack
over
here,
so
that
he'll
do
something
like
give
somebody
a
loan
right,
but
we
don't
want
to
give
jack
the
data
or
we
have
a
bunch
of
web
services
like
right.
Now,
I'm
building
a
company,
that's
got
14
web
services
running
it
and
I'm
constantly
worried
about
the
data
leaking
between
those
web
services
to
get
them
to
orchestrate
right.
C
C
None
of
that
has
anything
to
do
with
d5.
You
know
I
mean
you:
can
you
can
use
that
pattern
in
d5
as
and
and
labs?
Is
you
know,
kind
of
a
spin
out
company
from
mesh
not
to
be
shilling
too
much,
but
you
know
so
that
so
the
question
is
more
generally
around
law
and
supply
chains
and
in
multi-party
automation,
regardless
of
blockchain,
regardless
of
crypto,
regardless
of
tokens
or
coins
or
schemes.
B
C
B
Certainly
yeah,
certainly
so
I
think
you
differentiate
first
and
foremost,
between
on-chain
and
uptrend
transactions
and
how
you
update
the
global
state.
You
know,
and
the
rationale
for
employing
zero-knowledge
roll-ups
is
because
it's
attached
to
state
update,
but
the
transaction
history
can
be
compressed
on
chain
and
for
certain
verticals.
You
can
leverage
bits.
You
know
digital
identifiers
and
the
reason
to
do
that
and
that's
actually
promulgated
or
promoted
by
the
w3c
which
I've
experienced
through
with
my
digital
accessibility
ventures.
B
C
C
C
You
know
a
an
nft
or
a
token
of
some
kind
is
like
way
heavier
and
more
brittle
and
it's
more
expensive
and
transactionally
more
expensive,
not
just
overhead
right
I
mean
our
mantra
around.
Here
is
data
for
databases
hashes
and
proofs
for
blockchains,
so
you're
not
putting
especially
with
if
you're
doing
it
right,
and
you
have
a
good
indirection
in
your
hashing
or
in
your
zero
knowledge
proof.
C
B
Certainly
yeah
and
that
that
is
why
data
localization
is
so
important
and
it's
going
to
be
such
a
sound
investment
in
the
future,
because
it
does
it
allows
you
to
address
head
on
the
myriad
data,
privacy
laws,
rules
and
drags
around
the
world.
You
know
if
you're
a
global
enterprise,
you
probably
have
customers,
united
states
and
uk.
You
know
throughout
emea.
You
know,
then
you
look
over
at
asia
as
well,
and
so
that
allows
you
not
only
to
meet
those
standards
but
from
an
object,
storage
perspective.
B
A
I've
got
a
question
looking
at
kind
of
the
grc
approach
of
you
know:
a
multi-party
process
environment.
You
know
much
like
baseline,
you
know
what
happens
when
you've
got.
You
know
this
multi-party
environment
that
is
really
composed
of
a
bunch
of
participants
around
a
common
purpose
and
a
common
goal
when
something
goes
sideways.
A
How
is
the
determination
made
of
where
you
know?
Where
do
you
find
the
throat
to
choke
as
far
as
if
it
goes
down?
If
somebody,
you
know
all
of
a
sudden
operates
outside
of
the
agreement
or
you
know,
maybe
has
a
data
breach
and
has
to
shut
down,
and
you
know,
has
the
other
participants
having
to
wait
on
them
and
there's
financial
consequences?
To
that
you
know.
Is
there
a
method
to
say?
Okay,
you
know:
where
did
it
happen
and
who
do
we
censure
or
penalize.
B
B
What
is
the
business
purpose?
What
kind
of
data
is
being
handled?
And
you
know
what
was
the
breach?
And
you
know
who's
ultimately
responsible?
And
you
know,
one
of
the
best
practices
to
employ
with
smart
contracts
would
be
a
hybrid
model
where
you
have
a
traditional
vehicle
like
you
would
today,
so
for
licensing
software
under
a
subscription
license
or
a
software
license
sla
or
if
you're
performing
services.
B
You
know
under
an
msi,
you
could
aggregate
both,
but
it's
best
to
keep
fluid
concepts
in
the
traditional
contract,
and
you
know
fluid
concepts
would
be
ones
that
it's
hard
to
anticipate
certain
events
through
coding.
You
know
it's
it's
conditional
logic,
you
know
that's
the
functionality
of
smart
contracts,
but
it
is
very
difficult
to
envision
each
and
every
circumstance
that
can
happen.
You
know
and
that's
why
it's
very
important
for
legal
and
development
to
be
on
the
same
page
when
they
do
that.
B
So
you
know
to
give
you
one
example:
let's
say
that
you've
got
a
payment
mechanism
and
the
smart
contract
is
coded
to
release
funds
upon
a
pre-defined
set
of
conditions,
but
it
doesn't
happen
for
whatever
reason
you
know
the
reason
it's
important
to
use
a
hybrid
model
with
traditional
and
smart
contracts
is
sometimes
parties.
It's
much
better
to
grant
the
grace
period.
C
C
C
Knowledge
circuits
are
replacing
the
transactional
rules
right.
I
mean
smart
contracts
having
been
a
poorly
named
thing
from
the
beginning,
they're,
not
contracts
and
they're,
not
necessarily
particularly
smart,
but
they.
You
know
that
the
name
stuck
but
the
in
our
case
you
would,
you
would
say
the
rule.
You
know
a
rule
has
been
not
followed,
so
this
circuit
can't
complete
right.
So
it's
a
it
will
fail
backwards,
so
it's
actually
kind
of
nice
and
acid.
That
way
right.
You
just
you
just
can't
get
to
the
next
state
of
the
transit.
C
C
A
B
Very
good
questions
yeah.
This
speaks
to
what
ben
was
talking
about
relative
to
slas,
how
you
gonna
tie
slas
to
this.
That's
that's
exactly
right
and
you
know,
depending
on
who
the
injured
party
is
and
what
are
the
remedial
measures.
So
you
know
in
the
traditional
software
licensing
world
it
depends
on
mission,
criticality
and
uptime
requirements,
which
would
be
the
sla.
B
That's
a
much
easier
way
to
do
it
because
it
allows
the
companies
to
avoid
disputes
and
it
builds
in
the
structure,
and
you
can
do
that
through
exhibits
or
riders
through
the
sla
to
the
software
license
to
address
those
remedial
measures.
You
know
another
area
that
you
could
also
escalate
and
someone
just
mentioned
it
is
going
to
c-suite
and
actually
that's
one
of
the
most
effective
ways
to
resolve
disputes.
B
You
know
you
could
always
leverage
adr
alternative
dispute
resolution,
because
you
know
when
you
have
enterprise
relationships.
The
last
thing
you
want
to
do
is
take
your
client
vendor
to
court.
It's
just
that's
going
to
fracture
the
relationship
and
you're
going
to
spend
a
lot
of
money
on
legal
phase,
and
so
you
know,
potentially
you
could
agree
to
informal
adr
such
as
mediation
or
formal,
which
would
be
arbitration
and,
if
you're
looking
at
the
consortium,
you
could
even
have
some
of
these
terms
included
in
the
membership
agreement
of
you
know.
B
B
You
have
the
parties
that
are
briefing
an
arbiter
and
it's
much
more
cost
effective,
because
you
don't
have
the
potential
for
appeals.
You
know
if
you
have
an
adverse
ruling
which
could
take
years
and
years
and
hundreds
of
thousands,
if
not
millions,
of
dollars,
but
it
preserves
the
relationship
and
that's
ultimately
the
most
important
goal.
When
you
have
a
setup
like
this.
D
I
I
find
that
concept
really
interesting
and
having
both
a
sort
of
you
know,
code
section
to
it
and
then
like
a
interpretation
of
it
right
and
then
sort
of
the
signatures
indicating
this
is
the
intention
of
this
contract.
So
then,
in
the
event
of
a
dispute,
it's
not
only
the
machines
disagreeing,
but
you
know
they
could
actually
potentially
take
it
into
a
court
or
law.
D
B
B
A
material
breach
would
be
a
data
breach
or
an
event
that
has
significant
consequences
for
the
the
actual
transaction
you
know
at
bar.
So
one
of
the
really
important
areas
right
now
and
that's
developing
is
the
uniform
commercial
code
and
with
automating
a
lot
of
these
contract
drafting
and
reviews,
it's
very
important
to
make
sure
that
you
meet
at
a
bare
minimum,
the
commonwealth
elements
for
formation,
because,
if
you
don't,
you
know,
let's
say
you
automate
a
lot
of
the
coding,
but
some
of
it
contains
erroneous
code.
B
B
Typically,
what
you
do
is
you
can
go,
seek
redress
equitable
relief,
you
know
through
a
trl
or
preliminary
injunction
and
that's
beneficial
because
it
allows
the
parties
to
continue
to
perform,
but
it
also
allows
courts
to
issue
orders
when
you're
automating
a
lot
of
this,
sometimes
courts
won't
necessarily
be
able
to
do
that.
And
so
you
know
one
solution
could
be
ordering
a
party
to
provide
the
keys
or,
if
you're,
looking
at
the
smart
contract
automation,
another
solution
would
be
having
a
master.
B
Smart
contract
make
calls
to
subservient
contracts,
and
that
way,
if
one
of
the
calls
is
erroneous,
you
can
revert
back,
and
you
know
the
judiciary
take
advantage
of
that
and
order.
A
kill
switch
through
the
master
contract,
and
so
it's
it's
building
in
redundancies
in
this
to
account
for
erroneous
transactions
that
aren't
necessarily
possible
to
address
with
descript
discretionary
authority
for
individuals
like
we
normally
do.
D
B
Yes,
if
the
parties
have
contractually
agreed
on
adr,
you
know
courts
usually
onto
that.
It's
it's
a
bargain
of
the
relationship
between
them
benefit
of
the
bargain
is
the
legal
jargon
for
that.
You
know
another
another
consideration
that
we've
seen.
I
don't
think
it's
even
an
issue.
It's
maybe
just
a
collateral
issue.
Right
now
is
smart
contract
execution
and
digital
signatures.
B
So
if
someone
raises
that
kind
of
defense,
you
know
they're,
there's
a
federal
law
on
point
for
that
and
many
many
states
are
getting
on
board
as
well,
and
essentially
you
can't
use
that
as
a
defense.
Electronic
signature
is
valid
under
most
circumstances,
but
I
do
think
courts
will
defer
to
the
parties
like
they
always
have
if
they
contractually
agree
to
him.
D
Very
very
cool.
Another
thing
I
was
wondering
about
once
I
have
you
here-
is
sort
of
we've
been
interested,
at
least
at
ey,
in
using
sort
of
serial
knowledge
proofs
in
our
platform
that
I'm
working
on
the
project
I
work
on
daily
called
tax
grid
to
perhaps
prove
attributes
about
investors
without
revealing
their
identity,
and
I
believe
that's
what
you
know.
A
lot
of
the
other
identity
platforms
are
also
very
interested
in.
D
What
are
your
your
thoughts
around
eventually
governments
looking
at
a
zero
knowledge,
proof
that
you
know
speak
steward,
an
investor's,
you
know
ex-attribute,
you
know
accredited
investor,
for
instance,
and
eventually
evaluating.
That
is
we're
we're
satisfied
with
this
proof.
We
don't
really.
You
know
at
least
initially
want
to
know
who's
who's.
The
person
behind
that.
B
Yeah,
I
think
governments
will
eventually
get
on
board
with
that.
You
know.
There's
a
saying
of
regulation
always
follows
innovation,
not
vice
versa,
and
it's
never
in
history.
It
has
the
law
and
in
fact
it's
impossible
for
the
law
to
envision.
You
know
every
possible
innovative
feature
that
the
private
sector
will
come
up
with,
and
so
I
do
think
they
will
lend
credence
to
that
and
honor
that,
as
long
as
it
complies
with
certain
frameworks
like
data
privacy,
you
know
information
security
is
very
big
and
regulatory
compliance
and
reporting.
B
Identifiers,
you
know
that
I
think
is
going
to
in
the
future
replace
credentials
that
we
use
today,
like
name
and
password
phone
numbers,
because
it's
a
much
more
way.
It's
not
only
more
efficient,
but
it's
more
secure
for
people
to
use.
You
know
if
you're
looking
at
your
client
base,
for
example,
the
reason
that
you
can
use
json
formatted
metadata,
you
can
deploy
that
at
the
application
interface,
and
I
think
that
is
really
where
there's
going
to
be
a
tremendous
amount
of
opportunity
in
the
future.
B
C
Well,
I
think
I
agree,
but
why?
Why
is
blockchain
essential?
I
mean
look,
I
play
for
the
team,
but
I
also
try
to
you
know
not
allow
myself
to
get
too
wrapped
up
in
the
group.
Think
of
it
all.
Why
is
blockchain
essential?
I
mean
the
api
economy,
definitely
essential
right,
yes,
and
what
you're
talking
about
apis
json,
all
that
stuff
there
was.
I
was
reading
a
bit
of
the
standard
for
edi
because
it's
so
fun
to
read
edi
standards.
C
B
B
Got
it
the
way,
the
best
way
to
approach
this
would
be
through
the
risk
profile
and
the
investment
you're
going
to
make
in
the
infrastructure
and
so
utilizing
zero
knowledge
produce,
allows
you
to
compress
data
to
store
it
in
a
clean
manner,
which
is
reducing
your
overhead
for
a
lot
of
teams.
It's
gonna
reduce
your
spend
it's
going
to
allow
more
synergy
through
your
development
and
your
engineering,
your
information
security
teams,
that's
important,
because
it
also
goes
to
your
information,
security,
posture
and
vulnerability
management
over
time.
B
What
we're
seeing
is,
if
you
have
legacy
systems
that
are
outdated
or
you
know
you
don't-
have
active
threat
hunting.
For
example,
it's
going
to
increase
potential
vulnerabilities
and
threat
actors
from
penetrating
those,
so
you
know
looking
at
this
baseline
protocol,
not
only
from
a
business
investment
perspective,
but
just
looking
holistically
at
each
one
of
the
teams
involved.
B
It
allows
direct
transactional
work
to
be
done
in
a
secure
immutable
manner
where
a
lot
of
what
we
do
to
that
is
much
more
complicated,
and
it's
because
of
the
complications
with
the
infrastructure
we
have.
You
know
it
takes
a
lot
of
investment
at
the
corporate
level
to
not
only
maintain
their
postures
but
to
justify
increased
spend
through
that
in
the
future.
C
I
think
that's
right,
I
think,
and
that's
where
you
know
baselining
can
be
oddly
and,
as
we
often
say,
boringly
boring
being
the
new,
exciting
boringly
important,
because
of
course
you
don't
want
to
put
data
on
a
blockchain.
If
you
don't
want
your
competitor
to
know
about
that
data,
right
I
mean
blockchains
are
digital
nudist
colonies.
The
nice
thing
about
a
public
blockchain
is
that
you
don't
have
to
spin
up
another
kafka
to
do
a
signaling
mechanism
between
systems
right
and
so
you
can
say,
hey
look.
C
C
C
I
think
that
could
be
a
good
product
product
folk
on
the
call
is,
you
know
an
interesting
product,
for
you
know,
year,
two
or
three
years
from
now
would
be
one
where
you
say
hey.
I
need
to
prove
I
I
I
need
to
prove
to
somebody
that
all
these
events
happen
in
the
right
order
and
we
don't
want,
but
we
are
not
required
to
give
up
the
data
to
them,
even
if
it's
a
regulator,
but
if
we
can
package
up
all
the
proofs
and
say
these
are
verified
these.
C
B
B
I
think
united
states,
the
states
that
come
to
mind
first
and
foremost
wyoming
wyoming,
is
at
the
forefront
of
this.
They've
got
a
lot
of
law
already
on
the
books
and
some
legislation
pending
specifically
on
point
for
this.
You
know
they've
taken
the
initiative
with
dows
and
you
know
a
lot
of
their
statutes
already
addressed
what
we're
talking
about
today,
so
wyoming,
delaware
and
if
you're
looking
at
electronic
transactions
and
smart
contracts.
Generally,
you
know
tennessee,
nevada,
ohio,
those
come
to
mind.
B
D
A
Now
I
just
came
across
this
article
from
the
harvard
journal
of
law
and
technology.
I
have
not
gotten
a
chance
to
read
through
it
yet,
but
I
think
the
basis
is
in
the
title
itself:
it's
called
the
application
of
zero
knowledge
proofs
in
resolving
disputes
of
privileged
documents
and
e-discovery,
and
it's
about
how
e-discovery
has
been
widely
adopted
for
disputes
over
the
last
few
years.
A
B
Yeah,
so,
if
we're
looking
at
disputes,
I
suppose
a
good
benchmark
would
be
how
it
currently
exists
today.
So
there
are
e-discovery
is
actually
one
of
the
most
efficient
and
cost
effective
ways
to
manage
discovery,
and
that
is
because
you're
using
a
lot
of
data
and
you're
tagging
it
and
classifying
it
a
certain
way
based
upon
certain
rule
sets
it
would
be
using
zero
knowledge
proof
with
compressed
transactions
or
transaction
history.
B
Excuse
me
it
would
be
akin
to
using
anonymized
data,
like
you
see,
without
privacy
or
de-identified
as
another
way
of
saying
that,
where
the
actual
link
is
maintained
by
the
proprietary
enterprise
you're,
not
providing
the
other
party-
and
you
know,
litigation
today,
a
lot
of
that
happens
with
privileged
logs.
So
you
know
if,
if
you're
going
to
be
producing
documents
in
a
dispute,
but
you
don't
actually
want
to
produce
substance,
all
you
do
is
note
that,
and
you
state
the
rationale
for
withholding
that
information.
B
A
B
See
being
applied
in
the
same
manner,
and
that's
where
I
hope
you
know
lawmakers
and
regulators
memorialize
these
concepts,
because
it's
just
a
brilliant
invention
for
web3
of
how
you
can
actually
attach
each
state
update
commitment
to
ensure
its
correctness.
So
without
producing
all
of
the
information.
C
How
awesome
would
it
be
for
corporate
email
systems,
corporate
messaging
systems,
even
slack
any
kind
of
database
to
be
coming
out
right
out
of
the
box
with
baseline
standards
compliant
features
that
would
allow
you
to
go
okay,
we
got
to
do
discuss
we're
always
worried
about.
You
know,
I'm
sure
that
everybody
here
has
had
the
experience
of
going.
Don't
put
that
on
in
in
slack
or
don't
put
that
in
an
email.
You
know
give
me
a
call.
A
C
Can
get
away
with
it,
but
I'm
not
going
to
do
it
anyway,
because
I'm
you
know
ethical,
so
I
never
liked
that
conversation.
Oh,
don't
don't
talk
about
it
on
an
email
I'm
like.
If
I
can't
talk
about
it
on
email,
I
don't
want
to
talk
about
it
right,
but
wouldn't
it
be
nice
is,
if
is,
if
you
could
say
you
know,
I'm
a
little
less
worried
about
that,
because
in
a
discovery
process
I
can
flip
this
switch
and
have
a
feature
that
allows
me
to
comply
with
discovery.
C
B
And
then,
when
you
get
into
discovery,
you
have
three
buckets
essentially
they're
interrogatories
request
to
produce,
which
is
producing
information
and
requests
for
admission,
so
specific
questions
that
are
directed
to
individuals
within
the
company
that
is
written
testimony
and
what
you're
talking
about
is
the
document
production
and
back
to
sonal's
point
about
that
article
with
discovery.
You
know,
that's
why
that's
so
beneficial,
because,
when
you're
dealing
with
a
lot
of
information,
it's
very
very
hard
and
costly
to
parse
through
all
of
it,
to
find
out
what
is
relevant.
A
Field
to
up-and-coming
lawyers,
just
learning
about
this
stuff,
where
law,
students
like
myself
and
adam
in
the
chat,
were
both
fascinated
with
this
technology.
But
honestly,
not
many
people
at
our
school
really
know
about
it.
We
do
have
a
blockchain
course:
it's
like
the
first
year,
they're
teaching
it
so
it's
the
ball's
rolling
but
most
attorneys.
I
speak
to
professors,
don't
really
know
a
lot
about
this.
B
That's
a
good
question
and
thank
you
and
you
know
it's.
I
can
empathize.
I
remember
those
days.
I
was
in
law,
school
and
so
looking
at
new
ventures
and
new
opportunities,
I
think
the
best
way
to
approach
this
would
be
just
learn
as
much
as
you
can
about
the
new
space
and
with
the
courses
that
you
could
take
in
law
school.
B
So
just
a
few
notes
about
the
ucc
you
know
today.
How
would
you
categorize
or
define
cryptocurrency
or
digital
assets?
It
basically
falls
into
one
of
two
things:
either:
investment
property
or
general
intangibles
and
that's
relevant
for
secure
transactions,
secure
security
ties
and
debt
obligations,
and
so
that's
going
to
be
very
important
in
the
future.
So
article
12,
I
would
definitely
read
the
drop
that
and
then
just
general
principles
about
bridging
a
gap
with
the
legal
landscape
and
emerging
technologies.
B
I
think
best
practices,
smart
contract,
best
practices.
You
know
the
the
hybrid
models
that
you
could
deploy
at
the
enterprise
level,
so
using
traditional
and
smart
contract
automation,
then
information
security
as
well.
You
know
one
of
the
very
big
developments
in
web.
3
are
dows
and
there
are
some
very,
very
effective
taos
today.
B
C
What
bugs
me
about
dowse
is
when
we
get
into
this
business
of
saying:
oh
here's
a
token
and
you
can
use
it
to
vote,
and
then
you
have
to
stop
talking,
because
you
can't
say
and
coin
go
up
right
or
you
know
I
mean
basically
it's
a
conceit
and
talk
about
this
thing
about
not
being
able
to
put
in
writing
what
you
want
to
say
in
you
know
one
on
one
right.
I
I'm
troubled
by
this
right.
C
I
mean
I
want
to
be
able
to
I'd
love
to
live
in
a
world
where
anybody
can
gamble
with
you
know
what
they
can
afford
to
lose
on
startups.
That
would
be
an
awfully
nice
world
to
live
in
right.
I
wrote
a
piece
on
this.
A
few
years
ago
called
I
see,
go
on
medium,
how
I
see
ghosts
saved
grandma
from
getting
fleeced,
and
you
know
this
notion
that,
even
though
you
know.
A
C
You're,
a
grand
your
grandma,
you
got
a
million
bucks
you're,
a
credit
investor.
You
can't
afford
to
lose
your
million
bucks
right,
even
though
you're
a
credit
investor
right.
So
you
know
how
do
we
protect
people
but
also
make
this
more
liberal
for
investing
and
and
get
away
from
this
bs
about?
Oh,
yes,
you
know
maybe
someday
it
will
be
valuable
and
that's
why
you
should
get
it
and
everybody
starts
huddling
these
tokens
for
what,
because
they
can
vote
clearly,
that's
not
why
they're
buying
it
and
what
say
you
do
all
that.
B
Yeah,
that's
that's
a
good
point
and
I
think
that's
kind
of
what
we
see
in
the
industry
today.
It's
a
lot
of
individuals
are
more
concerned
with.
You
know
the
depreciating
value
of
a
token
and
they're
not
actually
buying
into
the
underlying
attack.
I
think
that's
the
next
chapter,
that's
on
deck
once
we
get
through
this
law,
but
dows
are
fascinating
because
it's
a
way
to
reinvent
the
traditional
corporate
entity,
formation
management.
B
B
You
know
those
people
are
considered
general
partners.
That
is
problematic
for
many
many
many
reasons,
but
it
also
doesn't
account
for
the
information
security
posture
of
those
which
we've
seen
hacks.
There
are
a
litany
of
examples.
We
cover
part
of
the
reason
you
want
to
form
legal
entities
even
for
daos
is
because
you
need
to
delineate
between
members.
Are
the
administrators?
Are
they
normal
members?
Are
they
just
participants
liability
shields
for
everybody
involved
in
case?
B
Something
goes
wrong
and
then
you
know
you
look
at
dao's
the
actual
business
scope
of
what
they're
doing
token
economics
is
very
important.
You
allocate
the
proportions
for
community
contributions
or
for
white
hats
or
ethical
hackers.
You
know
if
you
can't
afford
to
hire
a
cso
or
even
a
virtual
cso.
You
know
that
is
a
way
to
improve
the
security
landscape
for
your
dow,
because
it's
you
know
it's
a
white
house,
technical
hacker,
so.
C
You
give
them
you
give
them
tokens
in
the
dow
for
in
exchange
for
doing
that,
have
you
not
created
a
an
investment
in
a
common
enterprise
that
one
is
expecting
returns
from
and
is
that
now
not
a
security?
And
if
all
all
doubt,
if,
if
the
answer
is
yes,
then
I
mean
you
have
to
ask
how
many
dowels
would
actually
get
created
if
they
had
to
do
kyc
on
their
members
and
and
and
prove
accredited
investors.
C
A
C
B
That's
a
good
question
and
in
fact
I'm
going
to
be
doing
a
webinar
upcoming.
I
think
it's
the
first
week
of
june
for
the
eea,
so
I'm
co-chair
of
the
tokenization
group
for
the
ea.
Our
first
webinar
is
going
to
be
about
security
tokens,
so
the
gist
would
be
capital
raises
for
digital
asset
startups.
You
know:
what's
the
difference
between
ico
and
sto,
you
know
for
daos.
One
solution
to
that
problem
would
be
creating
stateful
self-contained
json
web
tokens.
You
know
that
in
those
tokens
could
have
both
fundable
and
non-fundable
properties.
B
So
if
you're
looking
at
ethereum,
you
know
traditional
erc20.
If
you
want
to
get
up
into
the
security
token
landscape,
you're
looking
at
1400
1404
and
then
you
can
even
leverage,
you
know
nfts
so
721,
and
then
you
also
have
the
eip4910
which
enables
royalty
bearing
entities.
So
you
know
at
an
enterprise
level,
that's
a
way
to
promote
recurring
revenue,
streams
and
you're,
just
augmenting.
C
C
C
Going
to
be
yeah,
hashtag
ip4910,
yeah
yeah,
you
know
you
got.
I
have
to
think
that
in
the
end,
at
the
end
of
the
day,
wouldn't
you
say
that
the
you
know
whether
it's
nfts
or
whether
it's
dows
or
whether
it's
remember
utility
tokens
I
mean
can't
we
just
do
the
damn
work
and
change
the
law.
Have
we
just
completely
given
up
on
right
on
on
actually
changing
laws?
We
have
to
break
them
to
change
them.
Cannot
we
cannot?
We
say:
hey,
you
know
what
you?
C
Yes,
if
you
sell
this
to
grandma
and
she
said
on
the
expectation
of
her
selling
it
to
somebody
else
for
more,
it's
a
security,
but
if
you're
using
it
to
buy
storage,
you
don't
have
to
use
a
broker
dealer.
I
mean
why
can't
we
regulate
on
use
as
opposed
to
on
type
as
we
do
today?
Why
not
just
change
the
damn
law
to
make
it
smarter
do
the
work?
Why
do
we
have
to
you
know
paper
around,
and
you
know
language
ourselves
around.
C
B
Yeah,
I
I
think
it
goes
back
to
the
point
I
made
earlier
about
how
regulation
always
follows
innovation,
and
you
know
when
we're
looking
at
is
something
a
security
or
not.
The
relevant
inquiry
is
under
the
howie
test
and
I
will
go
into
very
finite
detail
this
in
the
eea,
webinar
series
and
tokenization
I'll
I'll
give
that
information
to
someone
she
can
disperse
that
cascade
to
everyone.
B
C
B
Yeah
yeah,
I
don't
know
if
anyone's
ever
read
that
but
orange
clothes
so
there's
another
prop
pending
and
it
was
proposed
by
commissioner
purse
from
the
sec.
It's
a
safe
harbor
proposal,
and
essentially
what
that
is.
It
exempts
certain
projects
from
filing
required
statements
with
regulators
as
long
as
they
can
adhere
to
the
framework.
B
That's
still
pending
and
I'll
cover
that
as
well
in
a
few
weeks,
but
that
basically
says
it's
a
way
to
avoid
the
howie
test.
You
know
it
gives
you
a
three-year
window,
a
grace
period
for
the
initial
development
team
to
spin
it
off,
because
when
you're
creating
something
even
including
vows,
you
know
you
still
have
a
centralized
structure
in
the
beginning.
There's
no
way
to
get
around
that.
But
that's
that's
not
a
drawback,
and
I
don't
want
that
to
inhibit
innovation.
B
You
know,
that's
that's
one
area
where
I
think
we
it's
so
important
to
address,
because
a
lot
of
people
are
on
the
sidelines
and
they
won't
execute
because
of
that
the
potential
ramifications
from
not
only
at
the
federal
level.
You
know
if
you're
looking
at
the
sdc
with
securities,
but
you
know,
that's
why.
I
think
some
of
the
frameworks
that
have
been
established
by
states,
wyoming
and
delaware
are
the
two
that
come
to
mind,
but
wyoming
has
a
great
structure
and
I
encourage
everyone
to
read
their
statutes.
A
Wow
well,
thank
you
so
much
ben
we
are
at
the.
We
are
past
the
end
of
our
hour,
but
there
was
just
so
much
to
dive
into,
and
I've
gotten
a
few
comments
that
this
is
one
of
the
best
shows
we've
had
to
date.
It
was
so
awesome
to
have
you
here
and
hope
to
have
you
on
in
future
shows
if
there's
anything
of
interest
to
you
I'll
make
sure
you're
invited,
but
you
are
always
welcome
to
hop
on
we
do
this
every
week.