Baseline Protocol The Baseline Show - Office Hours, 4 Jan 2023

Previous Meeting Next Meeting

⏯

youtube image

►

From YouTube: The Baseline Show: Office Hours

Description

The first official office hours of 2023 for the Baseline Protocol community worldwide!

A

And now, like hey everybody, uh this is samratri, show I. Welcome you all once again to the Baseline show. This is a very special show. We are in the first office hours of 2023., um and- and this is exciting for all of us- we we just had before this Baseline show.

A

We actually had our first TSA meeting of 2023 as well, so uh so yeah we just hit the ground running and uh and and yeah for today we we are hosting office hours, because because we also want to give everybody's updates of watch what everybody is working on, what different TSC working groups are working on and uh also hear from the community members what they're working on and and if they have any questions uh on baselining.

A

So uh let's get started, I think uh welcome you all once again uh who are in the live live studio. um So, let's start with Keith. uh We have. We have Andreas, we have you have we have Mark hadu, uh Mark, renza, sonal uh and Charles dot. We also have ignore, so he he's joining I. Think after ages, uh so yeah welcome back.

B

A

Don't see you on YouTube, but I I, you know I want to let everybody know that he's there so um so for today, let's keep the hey so for today, let's keep the let's keep the agenda open. uh There's a new director that we spoke about a few few weeks back uh when we were discussing the TSC and the various working streams that we will be taking up. So one new thing which came out was um was the blog, so maybe we could kick Today's show off with uh talking about the various blog posts.

A

The first one was uh that that was very well received and we, we also saw a lot of uh commentary about it. We saw feedback on that. um The new one is uh is getting Minted as we talk uh and we will see it in the third week of January. So so yeah look out for that. One um Andreas. You want to add something on the on the blogs. Please.

A

C

Oh sorry, sorry I was submit hello, happy, New, Year, everyone um glad to to see everybody back um healthy and one piece, uh hopefully hopefully um hopefully uh rested and um with the lover still intact, um the uh yeah. So we we have some some exciting um stuff coming up. um Some red mentioned the blocks, so every TSD member had committed to writing a Blog um this year.

C

um That doesn't mean that there shouldn't be more.

C

um So if you want to write a blog about Baseline, you know, do not hesitate, feel free, um uh um write, it submit it um and if the trt wants to is it's like yep, that's good, then we'll publish it absolutely. So this is a open call for for blogs, um write about your favorite Baseline story and and we'll we'll get this uh going. Yes, the first blog was uh um was uh around the digital business.

C

uh Try llama with with or digital business out of uh at a at a Crossroads um where we discussed um the very fact that um there is actually you know we we live in a world of trilemma right. We which is, which is, is seemingly so right. We have. We have the we have the blockchain uh trilemma. We have the the the bridging trilemmas plural um we have, uh or we have the the well-known cap theorem right so cap, consistency, availability and and partition tolerance right from from computer science, which underlies all of that right.

C

So um so this blog was about trade-offs right. It paused that um you know you you, you need to make trade-offs between uh between uh decentralization uh performance and security right um and uh the the key here is that, uh in contrast to a um uh for for a digital business right and in contrast to, for example, a blockchain, there is simply no control on one dimension, which is decentralization.

C

In fact, decentralization is exponentially increasing uh with regard to to to digital business endpoints, because every single, every single endpoint can try to get in contact with any other endpoint right, so, whether honestly or maliciously, so that that so, therefore, you have no control over that portion versus you know when you're, when you have a blockchain right there, people need to stake something.

C

They need to do something in order to to participate in that in that, in that, in that Network right in the digital business Network you don't you you throw up a webcam turn it on point it at any other end points and and you're in business, so to speak or not, um but the the the the barrier to to to entry to to being active participant in the network is extremely low.

C

um That obviously, has has a significant um issue with around you know: performance and security, as we all know right. It's like it's like uh um every single major institution. Right now is compromised.

C

They just don't know it yet right, because it takes between three and six months, even to figure out that you have been compromised so um so the the idea here is to say: well, you know, if you, if you you need to for for for businesses to do business digitally they need to create subnet.

C

Right the position, the position is: if you want performance and security, you need to somehow constrain decentralization, which means you need to create subnets and that's basically, what Baseline is right: you're, you're you're, creating business sub networks that are that are that are that are more constrained, they're, not a decentralized right and they're. They're um they're heavily they're heavily shielded, and so you know by by, um um but they are there. There are still no a single point of failure, so it that's the that's the key. That's the key!

C

That's the key um inside that by using blockchains inheriting security properties um having the right level of of of decentralization Slash Federation um you can. You can still find the right trade-off for your use case using using the Baseline Baseline pattern. I think! That's the that's the that's! The bottom bottom uh um bottom line that we that we try to to um to uh make and that um in that blog right, so just just a little fun fact.

C

um The the cost of of of um cyber security and breaches is gonna reach um over 10 trillion um in in the next three years um and that's like 20 of global GDP. So it's it's.

C

It's becoming significant and the the uh um doubling rate of of iot devices that are connected um are is, is uh stumbling every three years and we're sitting at a currently 15 billion of them, so um um have fun with that so yeah, so that that's the that's the that's the um that's the basic premise for for for um for baselining, because because um regulatory constraints are are converging right.

C

So if you want to do business with the federal government, in fact any system that touches a a government system, eventually, you will have to implement the zero trust framework, which is still not 100, well-defined. But it's it's it's going towards the fact that every single business interaction is must be assumed to be non-trusted right. So you need to so rather than saying. Oh, you know, I know it's I'm right and we can do business together.

C

It's like nah, it's like it's like you need to go and say Samurai prove to me that you're, a samurai. Why I'm sitting right across from you? No can't believe that I can't trust my eyes can't trust that right, because, because I need to whatever you're giving me after someone else, who's gonna ask me the same question and if I can't prove to that individual that, whatever you gave me came from from was was, was properly authenticated, authorized and verified right.

C

So it's it's uh and correct right. So it's you not only need to be authenticated and authorized and the information that's been verified. It also has to be provably correct right. So those are those are. Those are four key elements for for a uh um for a digital business, business transaction right and you have to do that for every single transaction.

C

At the same time, you know you have gdpr and CCPA and everything coming in and no one wants to wants to share share data because um they either gets sued if they share or they're they're, fearing that they're that that they're, uh that they're, you know it's gonna get leaked and business secrets are are being revealed. So you know, the challenge is how you can do you know: authentication authorization, verification, probably approval, correct and not share anything right so that that's the that's not now you have.

C

You have really five five requirements: Five Fingers, um that you need to for fulfill that have that are standing in in Stark and start in stark contrast, so that that that's again, where we're saying hey this is this is where, where the baselining um approach the Baseline pattern comes in, is the only way to be able to uh resolve that conundrum, so not only the digital business China, but also the tension between between um regulatory requirements.

A

Super super this is this is helpful, uh Andreas and and I think the the very reason the upcoming blog is also something on on those lines.

A

um So we're going to be talking about uh multi-tier, financing actually and invoice factoring so I think that is something which is really cool uh most of the businesses that I know of use it, and still uh you know, if you read the reports from un or various trade organizations, they always say that there is still a lack of proper financing for smes, so uh that is one area which which needs a lot of work uh both from financial side as well as Tech provider side, so that that inclusion of small.

D

A

Into that that whole game is is a minuscule.

E

Samurai you hit the nail on the head, and so did you Andreas. This is a problem for everybody.

E

Right 70, like two-thirds of of every company, shares data knowingly with external parties, and you know if, if more than 80 of the information that's being shared, is confidential uh they're, they fall into two categories: either they're violating the Regulatory Compliance and the importance of that information today. Presently- and maybe they don't know that they're doing it uh or the alternative is they're in a a disadvantage from a competitive standpoint, because those that can collaborate more effectively will definitely outperform those who do not and I think you know, Andrea said you did an amazing job.

E

Putting this this narrative together and articulating that it's a problem for everybody, it's not just a problem for banks, it's just not a problem for small companies or big. You know publicly traded organizations. Everybody has to worry about this.

C

Yeah and and cyber security risks are becoming uh uninsurable, so there's there's there's it becomes virtually try to ensure your your your system against cyber attacks, it it becomes prohibitively um expensive because of the escalating costs right. At the same time, small businesses have absolutely zero capacity to match that zero right. It's like it's like they have a they have a they have they have.

C

um You know it's like it's like they can't, even even properly use like, like uh um you know, do doing doing their taxes in in a computer system, I mean, let's, let's face it right most most businesses. The vast majority of businesses are relying on third parties to provide that level of sophistication and security, and when those large companies are breached right, um then everybody isn't uh um is in is in trouble and they're getting breached more and more often.

E

They are compromised, you just don't know it everybody's compromised and in every breach, I think on average. What is it like? Four million bucks for every day.

C

E

Average cost and it's only growing growing like it's. It's a real problem on our hands, that is resolvable, but it takes multiple people to get together and think a little differently as to.

C

How I don't think it's resolvable? It can be minimized.

E

Yeah, that's probably a better term.

C

Well, well, you will not, you will not be able to to um right. It's like it's like there was, there was it was um I did I did uh um work and that field of AI generated malware and what was that 2017 2016 2017., um the the estimate was at that point that um uh every day the emphasis on every day, 70 000 New pieces of malware are generated yeah that was six years ago.

C

So you can you can you? Can you can imagine that we're probably sitting now at at a few hundred thousand pieces of new malware that are just being generated because they're they're they're, you know it's, you just get it on the dark web, with customer support with customers with customer support and money back guarantee, no seriously.

C

It's it's. It's the it's the it's! It is one of the largest Industries on this planet.

F

C

So it's it's, uh and and no one no one is ready. No one is ready for it and we're adding more and more um attack vectors every single day, millions of them to to to the to the to the picture and they are protected by you, know, username and password where the password is typically still test, one two three or password one, two three, um you know it's it's it. It is literally insane most of the protection is, is based on 1990 Technologies and we are.

C

um We are um working against organizations that are using sophisticated AI to generate new variant, the viruses intentionally and just throwing it out into the in them in to the open. So it's it it becomes. It becomes that's why you know it's like authentication authorization. What's the primary defense is no longer deficient right, verifiability and and provable correctness is, is um because I must assume you're compromise. I must assume that right, I cannot try.

C

Even if I trust you I can't trust you, because, as I as we just said, it's like you are very likely compromised and you don't know it mm-hmm.

C

So, oh quick, quick show of AD who has an antivirus um app on their phone.

C

Okay, how many of you have an anti-malware app on on your phone.

A

C

A

One does it I paid extra who.

C

Who have you have a uh are using a VPN on your phone.

C

Okay, so it's like so so so you need a combination of of anti-virus anti-malware and a VPN.

C

Yeah I hate to have it to have a to have a mediocre level of security such that your phone does not become unintentionally an attack vector and in in a way that you don't even aren't aware of it, and even then you know right. It's like it's like it's like it is it's it's. uh um You know known known backdoors or is there a day? Vulnerable vulnerabilities are not being exploited because they're they're, being people are waiting to use them at a grand scale. So.

E

Well, it's it's the apps that you download it's the QR codes that you scan it's. It can be anything the links that you hit like I'm, glad.

A

You're right there's.

F

Booby traps everywhere.

E

You just can't get around them right.

C

Fishing in in our our beloved web 3 world is is, is the um is, is rampant and people just like click confirm right because they don't because they don't understand what they're. Looking at right. It's like it's like it's like you know, it's like how many people, when they, when they you know in in in AP, right, really understand what they're looking at.

C

In in the FPA functions of of they'll, climb, oh I understand: do you understand whether that that that you know uh whether that invoice is actually legit, whether there is no collusion, whether this is the agreed upon price, whether there's there's not an issue? No.

F

C

C

I have no phone.

C

Yeah each use I get a new air gap phone and then connect it right.

E

C

It's a burner. It's a it's, a it's a bag of burners. It's an air gap. It's an air gap burner burner burner phone you're actually connecting you use. Actually, two phones right, it's like one! That is that that is your, your your network provider phone and then the the actual phone that connects to it to to actually use it right, yeah and they're all only Iphone, 14 pro Max's burners.

C

This is like every day you're you have like. You have like stacks of a few hundred of them right.

A

C

They can be recharged right and you can do a factory you, you can do a factory, um a factory reset which, by the way, fun fact is not gonna get rid of of of of of of of malware.

C

If, if it's, if it's at the at the at the firmware at the firmware level,.

B

But Keith that.

C

B

Trusting Apple put the phone out of the box that you're getting is secure.

B

You got to manufacture your own phones, man, all right, I'll get on that thing.

E

Come on what are you doing with all your free time? Let's come on burning.

C

C

No but I mean it it we're we're all joking here, but you know in a in a you know, think about it right. It's like it's like if you're, if you're, really they're a trust right, whatever the CEO connects their phone to the network right, what is being done, Beyond, authentication and authorization to ensure that there's nothing bad going on right, they're, relying again on third parties on you know they, oh yeah, you have you. Have uh um you know you have you have uh again, you know I guarantee you most of them.

C

Won't have you know antivirus anti-malware, um you know they're, probably using a VPN, you know, but but they're they're, they're they're, um you know um you know. Two-Factor authentication is probably because the CEO is not sophisticated um enough. They're still doing it by SMS right. So these are. These are all things that are that are that are that, are uh you know, really really problematic, because they're they're easy, you know everything is easily, um is easily compromised.

C

Right and- and uh um you know, State actors are are actively and you know, organized crime, working for State actors um or or um actively exploiting that. So you know the things that we're we we are we're proposing to use like decentralized identifiers, did surferable credentials, zero knowledge, proofs or all components and tools that need to be used together.

C

um In order to to to to um establish that right, and then you know, ask how many, how many organizations are are regularly rotating all their all their all their keys.

C

Right and uh how many are still using, you know: digital certificates from from from centralized identity providers that, potentially you know, email on sent master keys via unencrypted email.

C

So again, the Reliance on on on third parties to do your work is is, is, is, is highly problematic and they will chart these companies as they provide more and more capabilities will charge higher and higher premiums for that. For that, for that, um for that, for that work.

C

So I think that that is really your. Your your your your companies are, will be relinquishing more and more control to those third to those third, third, third parties that don't necessarily have that company's best interest in mind and if they choose to cut you off what that.

A

Was I was just the nodding in agreement and also I, think I think I've seen um at some places in the past, where you know there was this whole wave of digitization following Banks and Banks following digitization. So at that time there was tons of this data such data, which is available um at an absolutely unsuspected party right I mean these are. This is where competitors would go and fetch uh data from, and nobody would even know so so yeah I think I think and I'm glad the way you know this.

A

This discussion is shaping up and and also there's there's the other thing. You know, there's a there's a flip side where uh companies spend a lot of money uh in securing these interfaces and uh another day they end up securing the interfaces, but still when the data goes out, it goes out right so uh where you feel that is going on for legit reasons, but but then don't have an expiration date on that.

A

So uh I think what we should do is we should do a follow-on on this on this discussion as well. So if, if at all, uh we could find anybody who can talk about zero trust, uh uh you know who's, probably out there in the market um selling some products to people, it can be from OT space. It can be from cloud space as well, because I've seen I've seen the use of OT of uh zero trust uh cyber security in the OT space as well so yeah.

E

A

Think I think we should all look for it.

C

Yeah, there's there's uh um Let me, let me see, I can I can I can probably um so one of the interesting thing that is lacking in the zero trust space is because zero trust is just a word or two words. Actually it's.

E

C

It's it's an overused too too worse for sure, but there is no there. There are no. There are no existing standards around it, but take that back so the Metro ethernet Forum just published um uh a first zero trust standard for the uh for the Telecom space.

C

So that so the standards are starting to emerge right and you could put you know the Baseline protocol standard into that category as well, um because of the because of our all of our requirements in in uh in section in section three of the standard.

C

um So uh we uh so it's it's it's it's it's something that we probably should should uh um see. If, if there is, if we can bring it, if we can, uh I could see if, if the primary off I could bring in the primary authors from from math to to to speak here um um about about meth one one, eight um and and what that, what that? What that? What that means!

C

um So yeah! Let me let me let me uh let me let me do that uh and see if we can, if we can get something something going um going going here,.

A

Awesome um we could also talk about our interrupt Fest, uh something that we're planning sometime this year.

C

Yes, because because you're you're right because the the yes interrupt- Fest great great point, so why interrupt Fest right so because, because you know no, you know the standard is only as good as its interoperability right.

C

um The the other thing is because what we just talked about right- it's like it's like that. There is not going to be one Baseline implementation to rule them all right.

C

um Which means you'll have you'll, have multiple ones um that are that are that need to that need to to, to you know, have workflows across um across uh um across multiple uh uh counterparties that are operating their own Baseline applications as everybody operates their own applications right now, item Baseline protocol implementation is still that what it is. It is an application.

C

It's not a network, it's it's right, so um so we will need to do uh we'll need to figure out how we can demonstrate um interoperability in a in a in a way that actually is, or is there a trust and compliant with the requirements of the of the um of the standard, but doing that? Is it that's going to be key? Otherwise we will not be able to to.

F

C

Think it's going to be e um for traction, because companies don't like vendor lock-in right so being able to say hey yeah we can. We can do that.

C

um That's that's going to be really really um in interesting and we want to do that with um a lot of um with with real world companies and Real World Systems of of a record so um which um we're thinking about initial use case, which.

A

C

I, it's like it's like a a key. Do you remember what we, what we discussed initially.

C

Can you say that again, the the uh um the use case for interop right for the interrupt Fest which which which which was which one was that, because we had said it, had to be a real world use case and um has to be also simple enough that you know you're, not we're not following the ocean too much? Is this the currency.

B

We say um yeah that Ryan presents yes.

C

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you uh job. Can you can you uh um since you, since you reminded us so nicely, can you can you talk a little bit about that.

B

um I I sure can try I, know um I, know Ryan published a maybe a blip or a um Grant request in regards to it. That will give a better, more detailed depiction, but I think the idea was that many companies, you know, are dealing in in different currencies that are being exchanged at rates that they want to keep private um so that they're not like disclose those.

B

F

B

Have a good way currently of being able to do that, while still providing like the real time transactions necessary.

C

Yeah I think that the yeah, the the the the key problem here is that is that your spot rate per you know. Usdn is not necessarily my spot right right because it's like it's like, um even if we say hey midnight on on on you know, uh it's like every day midnight we take the spot right but spot rate.

C

Where right is it is it you know and and which midnight right so is it is it is it you know, is it? Is it the spot right in Hong, Kong or Tokyo, or Shanghai or um London?

C

You know it's like which, which which spot rate, or you know or or Chicago or which spot rate? Is it right.

C

um From which exchange, and how do you reconcile differences right, I think? That's that's what I, what I recall is the is the uh is, is the real issue. So um if my memory serves serves right is basically, we need to sort of like come to an agreement on spot rates across not only within a BPI but basically creating an r. A price Oracle right have have multiple bpis collaborate to to to create a a a um you know, Federated or you know, price Oracle based on um uh that.

C

Has that where, where that information comes from actually trusted companies without without um without necessarily revealing what they're, what they're actually using in a particular invoice but allowing others to utilize those those you know, verified price feeds, you know or averages. You know that. That's something I think that we need to figure out. What are we? What are we gonna do what what? What are the types of prices we're going to offer, as um as as as a as as feeds from that? From from that ongoing?

C

um You know price Oracle, so I think that's that's actually something that might generally be useful for, for, um for uh um you know, businesses globally.

C

You know it's like you know what the more I think about it. It's like it's like there is no real.

C

um There is no real, like accepted um price Oracle exchange rate Oracle, that is backed by like a bunch of companies, saying yeah we're using these sources and we're these are our our subscriptions, blah blah we're paying for it, but we're we're we're we're we're generating we're agreeing. Yes, we all agree that that this is the right, the right price at that at that point in time,.

A

Sounds very exciting, um so yeah, let's, let's look forward to um the Fest coming up and then um and I saw I, saw Ignacio turned on the cam. So Ignacio, let's hear from you what you're up to these days, how's uh how's your Baseline Journey, going.

D

um I'm I'm attaching up for me it's a lot of uh of a learning process. I think um um it's! It's amazing. The um the opportunity and the landscape of opportunity and um I'm the team behind Baseline I think um there's um there's a lot in terms of um education for um especially.

F

A

D

um Into um into this world, you know they um we'll start them trying to get into the cloud, and now um you know they're facing all these um cyber security problems, huge problems right um and all the Regulatory and confidentiality demand um and, at the same time, the the internal probability and interconnectivity of multiple parties, I think we're spot on. We are in in the in the right area, um I think um you know.

D

As earlier Andreas, um you were pointing out, uh for instance, um um an exchange rate Oracle, um it's it makes full sense. I think um you know, coming from from Financial Services is, um is a common problem. That's why it's! This hardly trash between.

D

You know the the Hong Kong market and on the New York Market or the London market right, um because they open on different um time zones and we're just people trying to save a few basis points um out of um you know, selling stock in in New, York and buying it in Hong, Kong right um and it's actually the same stock right um and that that Arbitrage should not exist in the very first place in a properly intelligent market, and we saw those inefficiencies um which in volumes are huge.

D

um It makes um a lot of relevance, especially for for many companies that they don't access to to those markets. You know they are even they can be big corporations, but they have trade, big trade Finance problems. They have cargos that they need to bring from, let's say, Argentina to China or to India or Singapore, um and um and all that is spot uh rates, fixing makes makes a huge difference to them right um um in in hours. It can swing a lot. You know the Beach to the dollar, so I mean I.

D

Think it's it's it's a lot about um showing that this. This could really happen right um so that, um besides the you know, the the the merits of our approach, um we Baseline. We are um realistically much more far beyond than other decentralized Technology Solutions, because I think our our approach here from uh from.

F

D

Multi-Stakeholder perspective is really open field right, so it's it's an open uh protocol that can be adopted uh from your own Enterprise, Legacy systems and- and that's the interesting part is, um is the uh our open mind um and and capabilities so really looking forward to to to to to help and contribute this as much as I can to to this project so um heard about this. This blog and try I will I will try to bring my um my own little um drop of rain into into the lake. Thank you thanks.

A

Thanks Ignacio and you do bring in a very unique skill set to the to the group, so yeah welcome uh and then thank you for making the contributions you have and you will continue making I hope. um Okay, so uh do we have do we have any other ideas for for items to discuss today.

C

F

C

We have the um we also have the the um uh the Bri all right, the Bri, the the um the road uh a road show that we want to uh where we want to to highlight um uh Baseline protocol implementations that are actually that have been created or that are already out in the field, and um you know it's it it um in order to to you, know, educate, you know a wider audience um a b, um uh not only a wider audience, but an audience of Executives and I think that that will be really um important, I think um being able to to Showcase something like that.

C

You know um a real world use case that is immediately usable um by a lot of companies um rather than having to to um you know, work with their Partners a lot or others in order to get everybody um you know on the same page um is: is um I, think that that is going to be really um important to Showcase. Here's, something that you can immediately use- and two here is the you know here- are other use cases that that that you can Implement.

C

Even you know within your own company right, if you, if you look at global companies and they have they have they have issues you know around around uh their systems of of record, even within a company. So it's like it's like you know. How are you evaluating you know when you, when you need to do the 10K and the 10q again?

C

Oh, what? What are your conversion? You know currency conversion rates that you're using at what point in time to to value your assets. You know it's like it's like, oh, are, you um uh uh are you? Are you keeping keeping different different GLS um um in sync, you know between different different legal entities and the same in the same company. Right I mean that that's a that's a that's a A.

F

C

You know my favorite one is when, when failed, um sell, something that is actually not not in not not an inventory.

C

Right because because it has been because that in inventory has already been committed by another sales guy right, it's like it's like and not like at the same minute. No like days ago,.

A

Okay, I was just gonna say that that management, but okay.

C

So it's like days ago, or even even you know, uh I remember in in in in the Telecom world right.

C

It's like you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, promising capacity that you might not have available at that um at all, because you're, because right, because the capacity plotting is not is is, is um not because of outages is because you're, because you're you're you're over committing um you're over committing capacity um to your to your customers, because because you don't have a common, uh a common, a common view on on the actual, the actual um inventory, because systems that that people are looking at are not. In sync.

E

The um Andreas I think you you're you're, covering the right theme. However, I think systems have become a lot better in inventory availability. You know whether you're Drop Shipping, something or not, where I think the real opportunity for exploration and value. Realization is post Award right. Are we living up to our service levels and commitments that makes sense and that govern this.

A

E

Partnership, um those are the ones that are absolutely impossible to manage and there's always information. Asymmetry right, like you know, you're, not answering the phone within four hours when I need support and resolving my tickets um as what my data might show, but your data shows otherwise right. So that's usually where a lot of friction comes into uh business relationships due to information, asymmetry, I think we should.

E

We should definitely explore a Blog article on this realm and uh happy to take point in coordinating that, but, like I, think it's it's, the post award post effect uh compliance that is difficult for two parties to be on the same page.

C

A

C

Yeah, so there is, there is actually um uh there's actually in in in the taco space there there's there's actually a a a um uh there's. Actually a standard around trouble, ticketing and there's there's uh um the Metro ethernet forward actually has it hasn't, has an on-gay ongoing initiative.

C

They have a showcase where companies show how they're, for example, uh dealing with SLA assurance right. So so so how do you? How do you? uh How do you resolve and surface any differences between between uh um you know what you brought up, except that in this case we're talking about digital Supply chains that are that are being orchestrated in in in real time right where you're saying the circuit was available, no was not wait. What so it's like it's like or it was down, and it came back up at that point.

C

No, it actually came came back up big back up earlier right. So the the that that sort of like um like also just accounting, SLA, accounting for like credits and and and and uh penalties is is, um is, is very important, but for digital Supply chains you actually have an inventory problem. You actually have an inventory problem because.

E

Telco, specifically with Lex right like how do I get in touch with the local operator to know what we need to do and what could possibly be done to put in an oc-12 right like if, if I'm somebody like T-Mobile, that's selling that but I'm, not the local provider, I have to integrate my Solutions through a feedback loop to solution that and price it before. I can pass that back to my customer that says: here's what it'll cost to put an OCT 12 in this manufacturing center or this Distribution Hub.

C

Yeah and and and you're you're buying that the local provider is buying that wholesale, that that that service, wholesale from from uh from someone like a t or Verizon or or Deutsche Deutsche, uh uh Telecom right right, they're, not they're, not they're, not actually providing it themselves, because they're they're, really basically just the the last mile yep right, so so that that's it is that actually available.

C

Has this all not already been been pre-committed by by by uh to to something else, not at the time of availability, but is just the capacity already maxed out right? I mean that? That's because because you you don't have a you, don't have a good. A good sense of of of you know, settlement of of of commitments right, that's the that's the that's the that's! That's the that's the uh that's the problem between. What's what the what's available in inventory and what is um um what is not where it actually becomes.

C

The interesting problem is, with their actually slowness, be of an advantage.

C

Because you don't have that that that synchronicity of of data right- it's like it's like, would it actually there be to have a you know: consensus oh yeah, yeah I have I make this commitment conditionally upon the fact that we we actually have that we actually have that's available. You know, I I can't enter the commitment right now right, but the sales people are selling this right now, because they're getting commissioned on on close sales, yeah.

F

C

Don't really care whether whether what what happens afterwards.

C

Right so is there is there is. Is there, for example, value demonstrating that.

C

Having having eventual consistency right between between all the points of points of points of sales and in ordering right a correct ordering of the commitments of the sales commitments where you then then just say, I will not be able to tell you whether we can provide that that that service or not, whether we have the capacity for another I, don't know three hours, four hours, 20 minutes, whatever the the the uh um it is that that you need in order to to ensure that that that um inventory is available against the commitment.

C

If I saw that that's something that is is is the um Whoopi. What would be an interesting um uh would be in in an interesting demonstration to show that you can actually that uh um a little going, a little slower, is actually gonna. Gonna Save You um a lot of money, but.

F

E

Would have to necessarily slower I, don't know if that's really the value driver I think it's the the visibility into a multi multi-dimensional contingency.

E

That makes sense in aggregating that information for quicker decision making due to Bringing disparate information sources and dimensions together. Like that's that's hard to do.

C

Well, it it it's again: you're you're, I I, you know at the beginning, I I talked about the cap theorem right, so this is this is this is this is a classic case of that right? It's like it's like it's like. What are we valuing here more right?

C

Is it consistency, availability or or a partition, tolerance right, it's and because, because here it's critical, if if you sell something, if you sell a circuit capacity at a particular point right and that commitment is final upon execution right, if you don't, if, if the data you're basing this commitment, this final commitment off is incorrect right because you're, because because you you, you don't have strong consistency, but only eventual consistency in your in your data partitions, because your your your your your system, landscape is is uh disparate, then it becomes really.

C

Then then, in order to avoid that right, because then, because you're making commitments that become legal commitments that that get you into into into into into trouble right, because then others they go to to to another provider. When you actually said no, this is done there. They they they they're, expecting it, and then you come back. It's like ah actually I lied right, so it's it's uh um so I think there there there's actual value demonstrating that you actually need to reach consensus on what is available at a given point in in time.

C

Just like a blockchain does yeah right, just like a blockchain does there's consensus, yup.

D

C

Actually agree upon the fact that at this point in time this is the available inventory for this, for these Digital Services right, whether it's a it's, it's a it's, a it's a T1 or T2 or T3 with these, with these um SLA commitments right based on what your, what your what's your uh what's, your product uh um uh product book uh uh is right so in in different in different in different GEOS. Obviously um so I again it's it's!

C

It's worth it's worth, uh um um uh um thinking about, whether that that might be actually something interesting to demonstrate.

E

I I think it would be let's, let's dig into that.

C

Yeah I can I can I can I can ping. You know it's like it's like uh um meth is so much for ethernet forum is, is actually um there there isn't.

C

There is interest around around precisely this this this problem of of inventory management for for digital, what they call data on demand services. So let me let me see if, if there might be an opportunity to collaborate there, yeah.

D

F

D

It's an interesting one um as well, because from a financial perspective in inventory is key um and when you add the complexity of, as you said, what's inventory, why it's not an inventory, what has been pledged as collateral? What has not been pledged as collateral, then you add another um another demand of to prove.

D

You know the the state of record of that inventory, right, I think the um even uh another um stakeholder which is the financer and the insurer, besides uh buyer and seller, even the different companies that you could imagine in a group um willing to be um without transferring the data being aligned on that inventory. State foreign.

C

I'm, taking like two two things away here, one is is: um is the zero trust meth one one eight to get it get a speaker here and then um see if there's, if there's, if there's interest around around using using um a BPI to do, we like data on demand, inventory so colonization that.

A

Would be amazing here and let's get a speaker on zero trust as well.

F

A

Yeah, so let me let me justify the most overused in two words, but this is very interesting. You know we we we spoke about the blogs initiative, we spoke about uh The, Improv Fest, and we spoke about the road, show, um awesome, I, think and and some you know, real good use cases. We discuss I think every find some. Some creative cases emerged when we have these previewing chats um I was once working for a client instead of whole floor full of people just to existing consolidation of their balance sheet.

A

They have about 180 companies entities across the world multiple times those multiple currencies. It was uh about. 400 people were just doing reconciliations in consolidation of the balance sheet, so yeah we should. We should make this into a system as soon as we can.

E

Well, I, don't know about making it into a system, I think it's proving the use cases yeah.

A

Awesome so I think today's show has been phenomenal um any closing thoughts, parting thoughts, guys before we bring this to end. Our first show of 2023.

A

I think we're good okay, I guess not so yeah with that. We come to the end of today's uh Baseline show. Thank you all for making it once again and for those who are watching us live any future as well. uh Stay safe and uh yeah. We'll see you next week we have a interesting speaker liner for the whole of January, uh so watch out for the updates by the way. So thank you.