►
Description
The weekly office hours for the Baseline Protocol open source community, Wednesdays at noon in the US-Eastern time zone. And don't miss the show on Saturdays at 6pm in the Indian (IST) time zone. Learn more at https://baseline-protocol.org.
Date: January 26, 2022
A
A
Hey
everybody,
it's
john
wolpert
and
the
baseline
crew
here
once
again
on
our
50
000th
wednesday
at
noon.
Us
eastern,
it's
good
to
see
everybody
and.
A
Open
looks
like
we
got
a
we've
got.
We
have
the
somebody's
got
their
zoom
or
their
youtube
on.
I
think
I
can
hear
it
yeah
that's
great
to
see
everybody.
A
We
have
our
special
guest
jimmy
lentz
from
duke
university
here
today
and
we
have
our
our
our
awesome
crew
mark
cattle,
mataya
costa,
who
I
think
is
new
and
if
so
we're
going
to
find
out
all
about
you,
montana
anant,
nataranjan,
sono,
patel,
jack,
wiring
and
jack
leahy,
the
jew
jacks
down
there
on
the
bottom
and
and
so
we
will,
we
will
commence
jimmy
it's
great
to
see
you,
but
before
we
begin,
let's,
let's,
let's
have
let's
find
out
about
mateo
who's
new.
B
Well,
I'm
just
a
a
guest
joining
the
session
for
today
trying
to
find
out
a
little
bit
more
baseline
protocol.
So
I
am
a
business
management
student
in
edinburgh
with
margaret
university,
focusing
on
operations,
supply
chain
and
logistics
management,
really
anything
that
concerns
a
robust
stream
of
data
management,
and
this
is
where
you
know
my
interest
of
for
the
baseline
protocol
comes
in,
and
I'd
like
to,
you
know,
address
some
research
to
tackle
the
challenges
of
you
know
of
data
management
in
big
supply,
chain
networks.
A
Well,
you're
in
the
right
place
sounds
like,
and
maybe
maybe
we
can
have
a
little
conversation
about
that
hand
raise
how's
it
going
and
it
looks
like
people
are
asking
for
a
youtube
link.
Is
that
what
you
said
jack
here
I'll
put
that
up
here
and
oh.
A
You
got
it
yeah,
I
got
it
all
right
cool,
so
it's
good
to
have
you
here.
Mattia
and
and
yeah
supply
chain
is
kind
of
hugely
important
to
what
we're
doing
jimmy.
We
we
had
a
class
at
duke
today.
Could
you
tell
us
about
your
program
and.
D
Yeah
thanks
john,
and
thank
you
for
for
doing
that
this
morning.
I
I
really
appreciate
it
always
fun,
as
you
said,
turnabout's
fair
play
so
for
for
those
of
you
who
who
I
haven't
met,
I
I
work
at
duke
university.
I
lead
two
of
the
graduate
programs
in
the
engineering
school,
the
master
of
engineering
in
financial
technology
and
the
master
of
engineering
in
cyber
security.
D
I
come
from
about
25
years
in
industry
in
finance.
Primarily,
I
started
off
my
career
as
a
trader
trading,
equities
and
derivatives
and
kind
of
moved
into
the
the
algorithmic
space
and
the
more
the
quant
side
of
things.
I
I
just
submitted
to
people
john
the
reason
I
went
into
the
quant
side
of
things,
because
I
was
a
terrible
salesperson
and
the
quant
side
of
things
I
was.
D
I
was
fine
relating
to
computers,
the
I
kind
of
progressed
through
my
career
and
ended
up
in
running
a
couple
of
firms
and
was
the
the
chief
risk
officer
for
the
second
largest
brokerage
firm
in
america
before
before,
leading
predictive
analytics
for
a
a
little
bit
of
time
and
then
came
to
academia
a
number
of
years
ago,
and
I
really
enjoy
this
this
space,
but
we're
creating
something
I
think
at
duke.
That's
pretty
unique,
so
the
master
of
engineering
in
fintech
is
at
an
engineering.
D
School
is
one
of
very
few
in
the
world
we're
the
largest
in
the
united
states.
Probably
the
closest
to
us
is
berkeley
and
they
have
a
great
program
there
too.
It's
it's
a
little
bit
different
doing
this
in
an
engineering
school
rather
than
in
a
in
a
business
school,
and
I
have
taught
in
business
school,
and
I
think
engineering
is
clearly
where
this
belongs.
We
do
a
lot
in
the
in
the
blockchain
space.
In
fact,
that's
what
john
was
doing
this
morning.
D
He
was
lecturing
to
to
my
my
intro
blockchain
class,
so
we
teach
blockchain
that
the
demand
from
students
is
just
off
the
charts.
I
I
have
a
class,
that's
twice
as
big
as
it
should
be,
and
I
could
have
had
it
twice
as
big
again,
so
we
we
offered
the
intro
class
now
and
it
goes
beyond
the
engineering
school.
D
Most
of
the
or
all
of
my
students
all
have
programming
backgrounds,
they're
first-year
students,
I'll
take
programming
and
software
engineering.
So
that's
that's
fairly
straightforward
for
them
to
enter
into
those
kinds
of
classes,
but
we
also
because
we're
in
engineering
school
everything
we
do
is
applied
and
so
we're
we're
building
things
kind
of
constantly.
So,
even
in
my
blockchain
class
you
know,
students
are
building
stuff,
they
were,
they
were
doing
virtual
wallets
and
funding
them
with
test
currency
and
transacting.
D
With
a
class
wallet
this
morning
they
will
do
some
simple,
smart
contracts,
some
multi-sig
contracts.
They
will
be
building
erc20
tokens
they'll,
be
doing
a
lot
of
you
know,
hands-on
stuff
and
that's
kind
of
what's
expected
in
the
engineering
realm.
There's
nothing
wrong
with
the
way
it's
done
in
business
schools.
You
know
more
the
theoretical,
but
that's
just
not
where
most
people
want
to
want
to
be
right
now,
and
so
we
are
seeing
a
a
lot
of
interest
in
this
and
then
we're
we're
also
doing
some
stuff
within
the
school.
D
So
we
started
last
year
the
digital
asset,
research
and
engineering
collaborative
derrick,
and
we
will
be
publishing
our
first
paper,
probably
in
the
next
week.
It's
it's
actually
being
formatted
now.
So
I
guess,
however
long
that
takes
it.
That
should
be
out
pretty
soon
and
we
have
a
post-doc
that
just
joined
us
to
to
help
out
run
that-
and
he
he's
just
just
here
and
just
getting
set
up
now.
D
So
that's
that's,
that's
kind
of
an
exciting
thing
and
then
the
the
other
thing
is
I
in
addition
to
teaching
at
duke,
I
teach
a
course
on
coursera,
a
blockchain
course
that
is
similar
to
not
the
same
but
similar
to
the
course
that
I'm
teaching
right
now
at
duke.
It's
it's
a
graduate
length.
So
it's
14
weeks
long,
I
do
give
live
lectures
in
it.
So
it's
not
like
a
typical
coursera
course.
D
Students
are
from
around
the
world
which
is
really
cool.
Two
of
my
I've
been
teaching
this
for
a
couple
of
years.
Two
of
the
students,
two
of
the
student
groups,
have
actually
moved
to
commercialize
their
final
projects,
which
is
kind
of
cool.
I
don't
know
if
we're
going
to
be
spawning
a
you
know,
fedex
or
something
out
of
here,
but
it
would
be
really
cool
if
that's
the
case,
the,
but
that's
a
that's
a
class.
That's
it's
really
interesting
again,
it's
very
hands-on.
D
D
You
know
I'm
trying
to
put
things
into
practice
as
much
as
possible
and
so
for
their
certificates
last
semester,
instead
of
giving
them
certificates
as
pdfs
or
something
like
that,
we
actually
minted
non-transferable,
nfts
and
the
students
didn't
know
about
it,
and
so
we
minted
those
we
dropped
them
and
they
just
got
an
email
from
me
saying
check
your
wallets,
and
that
was
that
was
super
popular
and
it
seems
to
that
seems
to
be
a
a
really
nice
use
case.
D
I
mean
students
loved
it
and
obviously
bragging
rights
you
can
put
on
social
media
and
all
that
kind
of
stuff
and
and
schools
have
have
inquired
about
it.
But
I
was
telling
john
that
the
most
correspondence
that
I've
received
is
from
employers,
which
I
never
expected.
I've
probably
received
at
least
a
hundred
stories
now
from
employers,
giving
me
stories
about
diploma
fraud,
and
I
know
there's
a
clearinghouse
and
everybody
can
pay
like
10
or
12
bucks
and
check
everybody.
But
people
aren't
going
to
do
that.
D
People
don't
go
to
the
clearing
house
and
that's
only
for
the
schools
that
participate,
but
people
aren't
going
to
go
to
the
clearinghouse
they're
not
going
to
pay
for
everybody
that
walks
in
the
door
and
because
of
that
apparently
there's
a
lot
more
diploma
fraud
than
I
ever
thought
possible.
I'm
I
was
like
shocked
and
I
could
see
somebody
you
know
kind
of
pushing
the
envelope
on
your
work
experience
or
something.
But
on
your
diploma
I
mean
I
would.
A
Be
looking
at
my
trump
university,
my
trump
university
diploma
is
no
good.
Is
that
what
you're
saying
oh,
I'm
gonna,
I'm
gonna
go.
I'm.
D
E
Did
it
on
bitcoin
yeah
they
caught
colored
coins
as
a
as
a
diploma
was
was
a
was
a
was
a
thing.
E
Yeah
he
yeah
and
and
and
he
ran
bitcoin
magazines
like
he
was,
he
was
doing
master
coin.
He
was
doing
master
point.
D
Yeah,
I
mean
it's
a
pretty
cool
use
concept
you
know
for,
for,
like
I
say,
for
employers
it
was.
I
was
just
shocked
when
I
got
when
I
when
I
started
so
I
just
never
expected
it.
That
was
the
thing
it
just
came
out
of
like
left
field
all
these
stories.
These
people
kept
telling
me
about
you,
and
these
were
all
like.
You
know,
just
gross
exaggerations
of
their
education
and
stuff,
like
that,
I
guess
if
you're
gonna
go,
go
big
right,
and
so
these
these
people
were
it's
like.
D
A
Yeah
right
we
have
a
question
from
the
from
the
from
the
the
intertubes
yeah,
which
platform
are
you
using
for
the
nfts
and
well
yeah,
embarrassingly,
asking
will
duke
be
looking
at
using
tree
trunk,
but.
D
D
Right
there
are
no,
there
are
no
royalties
or
no
way
to
transfer
it.
It's
funny
that
as
soon
as
we
did
it,
I
mean
within
like
a
couple
hours,
somebody
tried
to
transfer
it
to
a
different
wallet
that
they
had
and,
and
I
could
see
that
they
were
trying
to
do
it,
but
it
doesn't,
you
know
any,
and
he
sent
me
an
email
right
away
and
said
hey.
I
can't
move
it
to
my
other
wallet.
It's
like
that's
what
non-transferable
means,
but
thank
you
for
testing
it.
D
It
works
so
we
had
to
go
in
there.
Yeah
change
change
that
around
a
little
bit
in
the
nft.
So
we
use
polygon
to
do
it.
You
can
see
it
on
openc.
Obviously
it's
it
was
a
cost
thing.
You
know
I
mean
we're
a
university.
This
was
an
experiment
for
me
kind
of
to
do
this
to
begin
with,
and
if
I
would
have
done
it
on
like
ethereum
main
net,
it
would
have
cost
a
small
fortune
and
yeah.
A
We've
been
spending
a
lot
of
time
with
the
polygon,
the
senior
executive
team
and
really
like
those
guys
they
I
like
where
they're
going
andreas
is,
you
know
with
with
their
zero
knowledge
capabilities,
and
their
roadmap
looks
pretty
good
and
we're
going
out.
Yeah
the
tree
trunk
io
that
io
will
be
going
out
on
exclusively
on
polygon
at
eighth
denver.
D
A
D
I
was
happy
with
it,
I
mean
it
worked
really.
Well
it
it
was,
it
was
pretty
straightforward.
So
and,
and
again
you
know
you
can
easily
give
people
a
you
know
the
the
link
to
to
see
it,
and
so
it
makes
it
pretty
so.
E
You
you
put
the
you,
put
the
cert
certificate
on
ipfs
and
then
and
then
and
then
link
linked
it
to
the
to
the
to
the
token.
D
D
D
What
we
will,
if
we,
if
we
were
to
do
this
at
a
different
level
at
a
more
commercial
level,
you
would
actually-
and
you
you
will
you
see
this
wallet
address
on
my
on
the
site,
so
you
can
go
to
the
site,
go
to
our
site,
the
duke
coursera
site
and
actually
see
the
wallet
address
on
the
site,
and
so
you
can
do
the
same
thing
for
any
university
or
professional
organization,
or
anything
like
that.
So
you
can
see
what
wallet
address
it
came
from.
D
E
F
Of
the
bigger
dialogue
with
like
the
nfts
on
openc
and
all
the
api
calls
being
called
to
like
openc
in
a
similar
way,
I
think
that's
what
andreas
is
kind
of
alluding
to
and
and
in
that
regard
I
do
see
a
large
value
in
baselining
being
able
to
play
here
and
actually
providing
the
synchronization
of
this
and
jimmy
to
that
point.
We've
actually
had
surprisingly
a
number
of
conversations
from
a
baselining
perspective,
with
consulting
firms
and
organizations
looking
to
do
things
around
like
employee
credentials,
training,
certifications,
kpis,
onboarding,
workplace
management.
A
Jack,
could
you
elaborate
a
little
bit?
I
mean
none
of
those
sounded
like
coordination
under
zero
knowledge
problems.
F
Yeah
I
mean
I,
I
think
in
the
same
way
in
which
the
data
discrepancy
issues
that
arise
and
reconciliation
costs
that
arise,
that
we
are
working
to
solve
here
from
a
synchronization
baseline
perspective
could
be
applied
to
these
type
of
different
processes
as
well.
Just
for
you
know,
I
I
mentioned
workplace
management
or
hr
management.
I
mean
we're
working
with
servicenow
and
service
requests.
Service
requests
encompass
their
workplace
management
solution
in
hr,
so
we
can
already
start
applying
it
to
those
type
of
service
requests
as
well.
A
F
F
You
know
if,
if,
for
example,
like
an
organization
was
held
to
a
certain
level
of
standards
around
having
certain
amount
of
folks
have
these
type
of
training
certifications
to
be
certified,
as
I
don't
know,
a
microsoft
gold
partner
or
something
to
that
extent,
I
see
there
there
being
a
lot
of
value
to
the
organizations
being
able
to
utilize
this,
to
prove
that
they
do
in
fact
have
that
and
it'll
be.
B
A
E
To
know
it's
not
the
certificate,
it's
the
it's,
the
it's
the
it's,
the
completion
of
the
actual
coursework
that
that
you
actually
did
the
coursework
right
and
and
and
that
the
coursework
was
completed.
E
So,
for
example,
if
I'm
a
ta-
and
I
and
I
grade
your
paper
right-
and
this
is-
this-
is
like
it's
like,
unless
I
consent
right
that
the
that
the
that,
in
in
the
verification
it
will
be
listed
that
you
know
all
these
individuals
verified
that
if
I,
if
I
object-
which
I
can
always
do,
if
I'm
a
california,
it's
like,
I
can
say
no
you're
you're
not
allowed
to
to
you
know
it's
like.
Who
knows
what
can
happen?
E
I
don't
want
this
to
be
to
be
out
in
europe
the
same
thing
right
so
so
so
you
can
still
with
the
zero
knowledge
proof
you
can
you
can.
You
can
still
have
the
verification
that
this
piece
of
the
syllabus
was
actually
completed,
right,
provably,
so
without
revealing,
who
actually,
who
without
revealing
the
underlying
details
of
who
actually
of
who
actually
actually
validated
that.
So
there
are
multiple
ways
how
to
do
that.
Technically
speaking,
you
can
zero
knowledge.
E
Proof
is
you
know,
zk
snark
is
one
way
you
can
also
do
a
selective
disclosure
of
the
issue,
or
you
know
that
that's
with
with
and
you
can
package
that
whole
thing
then
into
a
verifiable.
You.
A
F
F
Kpis,
that's
where
I
really
see
the
value
in
the
kpi
like
like
intertwining
this
with
employee
kpis,
which
to
another
point,
is
you
know
in
a
way
in
which
the
fraud?
You
know
you
mentioned
the
diploma
fraud
like
there's
a
lot
of
fraud
relative
to
kpis
and
meeting
those
internal
to
organizations
making.
E
The
business
units
performance
performance
review
right.
It's
like
it's
like
being
graded
on
a
curve.
All
this
that
is
that
is
is
is,
is
being
done,
but
if
you're,
if
you're
being
evaluated
right,
if
you're
commission
based
and
it's
provable-
and
it's
like
they're
saying
no-
it's
not
provable.
Well,
no,
I'm
sorry!
Here's
the
proof!
I
mean
I'm
not
revealing
the
revenue
number
because
that's
that's!
That's
proprietary
information
in
a
court
document,
but
it's
it's
it's
provably,
so
I
exceeded
my
my
my
quota.
A
Cool
I'm
glad
I
asked
the
question
then
jimmy
back
to
you
on
this,
so
you
we
had
a
lot
of
talk
today
with
your
class,
I
mean
how
did
they
you
know,
I
gave
them
a
sort
of
a
hit
saying,
don't
think
of
blockchains
databases,
I
mean
how
do
you
think
they
reacted
and
and
where
do
you
see
the?
Where
do
you
see
the
baseline
story
fitting
into
you
know
this
blockchain
story.
D
Where
do
I
see
the
baseline
story
fitting?
In
I
mean
I,
I
think
that
you
know
this
was
a
somewhat
new
concept
that
we
brought
up
today
certainly
had
a
fair
amount
of
questions
after
you
left,
I
think
they're
they're,
starting
to
think
about
it
in
their.
You
know
kind
of
think
about
it.
You
know
how
many
situations
is
this.
Is
this
really
valid
for
and
they
started.
D
I
mean
it's
a
terrible
idea.
Yeah
I
mean
they're,
so
they're
thinking
through
you
know
what
what
what
are
the
practical
applications
of
something
like
this,
where
you
wouldn't
want
to
you
know,
give
up
information.
I
I
think
it.
It
definitely
provoked
some
thought
among
them.
They,
you
know
they're
they're,
coming
from
different
kinds
of
internships.
D
Most
mostly
students
are
coming
straight
from
undergrad,
so
they
don't
have
work
experience
so
they're
coming
from
different
kinds
of
internships,
and
things
like
that-
and
I
think
that
is
you
know
that
that
will
provide
probably
some
some
thought.
I
know
a
lot
of
them
will
go
off
and
and
do
some
reading
around
zero
knowledge
proofs
and
they
have.
I
probably
have
more
questions
about
zero
knowledge,
proofs
and
the
math
behind
it
than
anything
else.
John.
A
Because
that's
who
they
are
our
colleague,
it
could
be
right
down
his
alley
because
of
his
machine
learning,
stuff
and
right,
a
lot
machine
learning
and
zero
knowledge
there's
a
great,
a
whole
set
of
content
on
the
web.
You
can
find
about
how
they
work
together.
Solving
the
cambridge
analytica
type
problem.
A
A
I
was
telling
you
you
know
the
idea
that
you
know
3pls
and
trucking
companies
needing
to
be
able
to
be
sure
that
when
they
take
it
when
they,
when
a
truck
gets,
gets
through
the
gate
which
is
expensive
at
a
port,
the
box
is
going
to
get
on
there
on
that
truck,
that's
expensive
and,
and
nowadays
it's
not
sure
that
they're
not
sure
that
they're
gonna
get
that
they're
gonna
show
up
and
that
that
box
is
gonna,
get
there
right.
A
D
Oh,
absolutely,
you
know,
I
think
there
are.
There
are
definitely
instances
where
you
know
they're.
You
know
that
this
will.
This
will
come
up
again.
They
were,
they
were
really
interested.
I
think
in
in
this
idea
of
being
able
to
prove
something
without
giving
up
any
information.
D
D
They
they
usually
take
things
from
that
perspective
and
work
towards
the
business
application
rather
than
the
other
way
around.
You
know
we're
very
fond
of
saying
it's
much
easier
to
teach
finance
to
a
mathematician
than
mathematics
to
a
finance
person.
A
A
Show
me
one
that
is,
doesn't
involve
a
database
right.
It's
like
you
know
there
isn't
a
it's
not
like.
Sometimes
I
get
frustrated
with
the
what's
the
use
case
conversation
because
I
think
what
they're
saying
is.
I
don't
know
what
they're
saying,
but,
but
it's
sometimes
I
think
it's
a
way
of
blowing
off
a
conversation.
A
You
know
show
me
a
place
where
in
business,
where
you
don't
worry
about
giving
up
data
in
order
to
coordinate
with
other
parties,
you
know
you
could
throw
a
rock
in
any
direction
and
find
a
reason
to
use
that
that
pattern
seems
to
me.
D
Yeah
I
mean
it's
interesting
because
it's
it's
a
little
bit
antithetical
to
everything
that
blockchain
was
kind
of
offered
up
to
be
right.
I
mean
it
was.
D
A
I
feel
like
I
let
the
let
the
air
out
of
their
tires.
Today
I
was
like
okay,
you
know,
blockchains
terrible
databases,
don't
use
them
for
that,
put
hashes
and
proofs
on
them
and
use
it
as
an
ordering
service
kind
of
and
a
place
to
manage
proofs,
and
I
think
that's
for
students
that
are
excited
about
blockchain.
That's
a
pretty
sad
story
for
them,
but
you
know
it's
not
unlike
what
what
happened?
A
student
called
me
two
days
ago
and
said:
hey.
I
really
want
to
make
a
career
in
blockchain.
A
I
said
why
and
they
said
well
because
aren't
you
in
blockchain
and
I'm
like
yeah,
but
you
know
what
my
biggest
problem
is.
I
you
know
I'm
seeking
problems
go,
find
some
people
whose
lives,
suck
and
and
figure
out
a
way
to
fix
it
and
then
collect
the
tools
that
they
need.
You
need
to
help
fix
it,
and,
if
blockchain
and
or
zero
knowledge
or
any
of
these,
these
techniques
are
in
that
set
of
things
that
you're
gonna
use
great,
but
focus
on
people's
problems
right
yeah,.
D
I
mean
the
problem
solutioning
is,
is
obviously
I
mean
that's
that's
where
that's
where
this
really
comes
to
pass
is
not
trying.
I
mean
I
that
was
one
of
the
things
when
I
was
in
industry
in
finance.
You
know
people
used
to
bring
these
ideas
all
the
time
and
it's
like.
So
what
exactly
are
you
solving
for
you
know,
and,
and
so
I
I
always
think
of
things
kind
of
in
that
perspective.
D
You
know,
I
think
the
the
idea
baseline
was
something
very
different.
It's
a
very
different
concept
to
to
to
think
about,
but
there
are
limited
times
where
you
where
you
need
to
hide
this.
As
I
said
before,
you
know
like
diplomas,
I
would
never
baseline
those.
Why
would
you
I
mean
people?
Hang
those
on
their
walls?
Are
there
people
that
will
say?
Oh
no,
I
I
want
to
be.
I
want
to
be
kept
out
of
it.
You
know
gdpr
and
that
kind
of
thing
yeah
you
opt
in.
You,
don't
opt
out.
D
You
opt
into
this
right.
You
have
to
have
a
you
have
to
provide
me
with
a
wallet
address.
You
don't
provide
me
with
a
wallet
address.
You're,
not
you
know
it's,
not
it's
not
going
to
be
done
so
there
there
are.
So
that's
not.
You
know
that
so
that
that
you
don't
need
it
for
something
like
that,
but
for
bills
of
laden,
for
you
know
something
that
you
want
to
keep
secure.
You
know
foodstuffs.
You
know
things
along
those
lane
lines.
I
think
you
know
most.
I
I
the
one
application.
D
I
thought
that
would
be
great,
for
this
is
actually
around
municipal
utilities.
You
know,
have
you
ever
seen
how
municipal
utilities
get?
So
what
are
what
are
works?
Who
do
you
pay
for?
Who
do
you
pay?
Well,
you
probably
don't,
do
it?
Amy
probably
does
it,
but
who?
Who
who
do
you
pay
your
water
bill
to.
A
A
D
D
It
is
not
a
it's,
not
somebody
with
a
phd
in
chemistry,
who's
doing
this
trust
me
it's
just
a
guy
who
got
a
promotion
from
you
know
some
other
department
and
and
now
he's
doing
that.
You
know
things
like
that
that
you
know
if
they
were
monitored
on
a
you
know
they
those
kinds
of
things
I
think
about
a
lot,
but
then
there
are
a
lot
of
other
things.
D
I
think
on
the
the
zero
knowledge
side
that
could
be
done,
but
I
think
there's
a
lot
of
things
that
should
be
kept
a
lot
more
secure
than
they
are
to
me.
This
is
this
is
a
a
great
way
to
to
think
about
those.
You
know
I
think
about
all
of
the
stuff,
because
I,
as
I
mentioned,
I
run
you
know
another
graduate
program
in
cyber
security.
I
think
about
all
the
things
that
are
done
there
now.
D
I
don't
know
how
many
of
you
guys
ever
look
at
cyber
security
stuff,
but
the
all
pretty
much
every
provider
they
sell.
One
thing
they
sell
the
same
thing.
You
know
what
it
is
fear
because
because
they
they
haven't.
D
It's
justifiable
fear,
but
they
haven't
come
up
with
anything
new
in
20
years,
they're
selling
the
same
stuff
they
sold
20
years
ago.
Pretty
much
and-
and
I
would
say
95
of
it-
involves
higher
and
thicker
walls
and
I
think
we
learned
in
the
middle
ages.
Those
didn't
work
very
well.
A
A
Zero
trust,
not
zero
knowledge
with
zero
trust
frameworks
are
coming
up
right.
B
A
Yeah
you
just
you
build
it
inside
out,
you
know,
and
and
at
rest
and
in
transit
encryption.
Never
you
know
right
mark
is
nodding
his
head.
I.
D
But
I
mean
to
me:
you
know
this,
you
know
zero
knowledge
proofs,
I
mean
for
for
things
like
that.
I
mean
we.
This
is
what
should
be.
You
know,
I
think
those
kinds
of
things
people
are
always
looking.
Oh,
how
are
we
going
to
do
this?
It's
like
it's
not
a
another.
Freaking
firewall
trust
me,
you
know,
use
use
the
technology
that
exists
today
I
mean.
I
think
this
is
a.
This
is
a
great
technology
for
that
kind
of
thing
and
I've
and
I
I
work
with
pretty
much
or
I
see
stuff.
D
A
E
A
E
So
so
the
biggest
vulnerability
today
in
cyber
security
is
the
software
supply
chain,
the
biggest
one,
because
I
don't
need
to.
I
don't
need
to
inject
my
malware
into
your
system.
You
download
it
freely
and
and
install
it
and
distribute
it
yourself
gladly
yeah
a
smile
on
your
face
possible
deniability
right,
but
you're
you're,
you're
still
right,
so
the
the
the
so
the
the
the
the
key
is
is
like.
How
do
you
ensure
that
it
was
done?
E
Provably,
correct,
provably,
correct
right
by
by
by
authorized
individuals
that
that
you
don't
necessarily
know
about
and
can
know
about,
because
they're
they're
they're
intentionally
hidden
right?
It's
like
it's
like
it's
like
such
that.
No
one
knows
who
actually
does
the
does
the
does
the
validation,
because
if
you
know
who
does
the
validation,
then
you
know
where
to
attack
right.
That's
the
that's
the
that's
the
whole.
That's
the
whole!
E
That's
the
whole
point,
so
you
can
the
zero
knowledge
proves,
and
coordination
under
zero
knowledge
of
the
different
validation
steps
in
in
proof
of
correctness
will
be
a
major
thing
for
software
supply
chain,
security
and
yeah.
It
is
it
is
it
is.
It
is
truly
harrowing
to
think
when
your
nuclear
power
plant
and
raleigh
does
a
software
upgrade
and
oops.
E
No,
no,
you
don't
know
the
point,
is
you
do
you?
Do
you
do
a
software
upgrade
and
by
the
way,
most
nuclear
power
plants
run
on
the
same
type
of
system,
control
software
yeah,
just
fyi
by
the
way
water
works
also
very
often
very
limited
set
of
of
control?
If
I
control
that
I
can
poison
your
water,
I
can
blow
up,
I
can
I
can
cause
core
core
meltdowns
and
you
can't
do
about
it.
A
You
know
I'm
reminded
years
ago
you
know
I
started
at
ibm
on
the
java
team
in
97,
and
people
were
talking
about
well,
java's
great
drive
was
great
and
people
were
like
well
what,
if
we
used
it
in
nuclear
power
price
and
in
those
days
garbage
collection,
you
couldn't
control
timing
right,
which
is
kind
of
important
in
nuclear
power
plants,
and
so.
A
It
was
a
great
lesson
in
poor
use
of
tool
right
like
no
don't
use
garbage
collection
languages
when
writing
code
for
nuclear
power
plants.
Thank
you.
I
mean.
B
A
Probably
okay
now,
but
you
know
much
more
sophisticated,
but
in
those
days
you
couldn't
control
when
things
got
garbage
collected.
Remember
that
yeah.
G
Yeah,
I
had
actually
an
I
think
kind
of
going
back
to
jimmy's
earlier
talk
about.
You
know,
credentials
and
stuff
one
thing,
because
I've
worked
on
two
use
cases
that
we
worked
really
extensively
on
it,
and
this
was
before
verified
credentials.
Vcs
had
become
a
thing,
but
the
ids
was
something
we
were
playing
around
with,
and
one
of
the
features
that
the
client
was
actually
interested
in
was
the
revocation.
G
G
But
if
you
ever
go
into
a
hostel,
a
large
healthcare
campus
you'll
see
a
lot
of
people
that
are
wearing
all
of
these
plastic
badges
on
a
lanyard
around
their
neck
and
stuff,
and
it
has
different.
You
know
credentials
on
those,
like
you
know,
are
your
shots.
You
know
complete.
Have
you
had
your
flu
shot?
Have
you
had
your
coveted
shot
if
you're
in
the
surgical
suites?
Have
you
had
sterile
environment
training
if
you're
on
the
patient
floors
have
you
had
hipaa?
G
You
know
treatment
and
so
forth,
and
you
know
if
you
are
an
industry,
rep
you're,
going
to
probably
have
three
or
four
or
even
more
of
these
lanyard
sets.
You
know
that
you
carry
around
on
your
neck
and
where
do
you
normally
keep
them
in
your
car
or
in
your
van?
And
if
someone
was,
you
know
had
that
compromised
someone,
you
know
stole
it
and
could
walk
around
the
healthcare
campus
completely
unfettered.
G
You
know
they
wanted
to
be
able
to
have
the
mechanism
to
say,
hey
this
person's
prudential
right
now
we
do
not
affirm,
and
you
know
you
need
to
probably
call
security
and
have
them
either.
You
know,
explain
themselves
or
remove
them
from
the
premises,
and
that
was
a
big
thing
was
the
revocation
aspect
of
it?
G
Second,
one
we
worked
on
was
it
was
one
that
was
used
for
a
you
know,
a
big
four
audit
team
and
you
know
you'll-
have
these
teams
of
auditors
within
these
firms
that
will
be
working
on
a
certain
client
and
there's
going
to
be
sensitive
data.
Servings
oxley,
you
know,
access
becomes
an
issue
that
when
you
have
one
auditor
that
is
moved
off
of
one
client
project
on
to
another,
they
want
to
make
sure
that
they
no
longer
have
access
or
visibility
to
any
of
the
data.
G
A
A
A
You
know
hey,
you
know
what,
if,
if
I
only
had
a
wrench
that
had
an
end
on
it
like
this,
I
could
get
under
this
piece
of
the
of
engine
and
use
that
you
know
I
needed.
I
need
a
tool
that
looks
like
this,
but
you're
focused
on
yeah.
I've
got
to
fix
this
engine
right.
I
really
appreciate
that
about
you
and
I
think
it's
it's
well.
A
G
A
Right
yeah,
I
really
love
that
mark
handle
everybody
here,
he's.
G
But
the
revocation
aspect
I
mean,
and
it's
one
thing
that
baseline
addresses
because
you
have
an
always
on
always
available
trust
layer.
You
wanted
to
be
able
to
have
that
real
time.
Visibility
into
hey
is
this
person?
Yes,
they
have
shown
me
the
credential,
but
is
you
know,
are
they
the
one
that
should
have
it
and
is
it
theirs
and
is
everything
on
on
the
up
and
up?
So
those
are
the
two.
G
You
know
kind
of
use
cases
we
were
working
about
and
you
do
have
you
know
when
you
have
people
that
need
to
prove
you
know
any
attribute
of
a
a
of
a
credential
that
generally
involves
custody
of
sensitive
information
and
if
they
have
the
care,
custody
and
control
of
this
information
shouldn't
be
compromised,
they
may
be
liable.
G
So
again,
it's
you
know.
You
start
looking.
You
know
from
a
security
philosophical
standpoint.
You
know
this
is
a
pretty
compelling
as
well.
E
E
I
posted
two
two
two
links
in
the
in
the
in
the
chat.
One
is
one,
is
revocation
list
2020
so
for
fairfield,
credential,
there's
a
there's,
a
method,
there's
there's
it's
actually
in
the
in
the
performance:
credential
spec,
revocation
the
the
revocation
status
and
there's
a
method
of
of
how
to
do
that,
and
there
is
there's
actually
is
there
a
knowledge
way
to
to
then
to
then
prove
in
zero
knowledge
that
a
credential
is
a
member
of
a
set
which
is
the
revoked
set?
E
So
you
can
you
can
you
can
do
that
in
in
in
zero
knowledge,
and
I
posted
sort
of
like
a
for
an
actual
example
where
ing
built
that
built
that
proof
of
membership,
or
so
people
want
to
play
around
with
code
they
can
they
can
they
can
they?
Can
they
can
do
that?
So
yes,
it's.
E
Actually
it's
actually
a
thing
which,
which
you
can
you
they're
they're,
they're,
obviously
different
ways
to
to
skin
that
to
to
skin
that
to
skin
that
cat
you,
you
can
just
do
it
simply
through
through
through
a
hash
and
a
merkle
tree
and
and
so
forth.
But
you
know,
membership
proof
and
their
knowledge
is
is
kind
of
elegant.
A
Hey
sonal,
let's,
let's
turn
to
you
and
jimmy
keep
on
firing
away.
You
know
it's
really
great
to
have
you
here
and
I'd
love
to
we'd
love
to
get.
You
know
no.
D
It's
oh,
it's
always
fun
to
be
here.
I
miss
I
miss
these
guys.
I
miss
seeing
andreas.
We
we
andres
you
and
I
need.
We
need
to
just
talk
once
a
week
anyway.
Yeah
I
do
miss
seeing
you.
We
don't
see
each
other
near
as
much
as
we
used
to.
B
D
I
think
it's
it's
great
to
you
know
to
hear
kind
of
the
the
these
different
ideas.
I
mean
honestly.
I
you
know
being
in
a
university
you're
you're,
surrounded
by
people
that
are,
are
they're
very
open
minds.
They
they
haven't
been.
They
haven't
been
constrained
by
experience,
you
know
their
their
thoughts
are
still
very,
very
open
and
they,
their
considerations
are
still
very
broad.
D
I
think,
as
we
as
we
have
more
experiences
or
considerations
narrow,
because
we've
seen
things
so
many
times
before,
but
but
they
don't
have
that
yet
you
know
these
kinds
of
discussions,
I
mean
they
would
find
fascinating.
Honestly
I
mean
they
really
would
I
think
they
would
be.
They
would
be
bowled
over
by
by
this,
and
the
fact
that
you
guys
can
come
up.
You
know.
D
Andreas
can
shoot
out
two
links
immediately
with
you
know:
here's
how
you
do
that
you
know
those
are
things
that
just
don't
they
they
don't
conceive
of.
You
know
that
that
kind
of
thing
I'm.
A
Not
for
nothing
jimmy
being
around
mcmurthy
is
on
on
as
well
on
on
on
on
youtube
she's,
making
some
comments.
I
mean
the
three
of
you
guys
are
you
know
the
other
great
coursera
course
out.
There
is
venus,
it's
had
like
three
hundred
thousand,
you
know
uses,
or
you
know.
A
D
D
I
think
there's
I
know
I
I
and
I
love
I
like
I
said
I
really
love
doing
the
the
coursera
course,
because
it's
totally
different
kind
of
student
I
mentioned
two
of
the
two
of
the
group
projects.
D
They've
they've
decided
to
move
on
to
to
commercialize
and,
and
one
of
the
kind
of
cool
things
is
that
the
the
one
from
our
last
semester-
they're
commercializing,
something
it's
actually
in
the
legal
space
which
is
which
is
kind
of
cool,
but
the
the
the
four
people
that
are
doing
it:
one's
in
australia,
he's
kind
of
the
guy
leading
it
one's
in
peru,
one
some
place
in
north
america
and
one's
in
vietnam,
and
it's
like
you
know.
Where
else
would
that
happen?
Where
else
would
you
have?
D
The
opportunity
to
you
know,
spend
14
weeks
with
a
group
of
people
from
that
far
flung,
you
know,
except
by
you,
know
this
kind
of
happenstance
of
having
this
common
interest
in.
I
want
to
learn
more
about
blockchain,
and
you
take
this
course
and
all
of
a
sudden,
you
meet
these
people
and
kind
of
get
thrown
in
this
mix
with
them.
So
I
I
do
really
like
coursera
for
those
kinds
of
things.
D
It's
my
course
is
kind
of
expensive,
but
you
know
it's
duke
and
I
can't
really
say
anything
about
that,
but
it
it
is.
You
know
I,
but
I
I
don't
I
I
like
the
fact
that
it
costs
something.
I
think
that
makes
people
a
little
bit
more
responsible
about.
You
know
attending
class
and
participating
in
those
kinds
of
things,
and
so
it
is
a.
It
is
a
class
where
you
know
there's
there's
a
lot
of
participation
goes
on
you,
students
ask
a
lot
of
questions.
D
You
know
they
they,
you
know
they've
kind
of
bought
their
their
access
to
you
and-
and
I
I
definitely
think
about
it
that
way,
but
because
of
that,
you
also
hear
some
really
really
interesting
ideas.
You
know
almost
everybody
who's
taken.
The
course
is,
you
know,
they're
they
work
in
different
industries,
they
work
in
consumer
products
or
finance,
or
you
know
real
estate
or
whatever
and
and
they
have
in
the
back
of
their
minds.
I
wonder
if
I
could
you
know
there's
this
thing.
D
That's
been
broken,
for
you
know,
30
years
in
what
I
do.
I
wonder
if
I
could
use
blockchain
to
fix
that
I
mean
that's.
That's
in
the
back
of
almost
everybody's
mind.
I
wonder
if
there's
a
if
there's
an
application
here
that
will
help
me
fix
this
thing,
which
I
don't
know
how
to
fix,
but
I
know
it
has
a
solution.
I
would
say
probably
at
least
three
quarters
of
the
students
enter
with
that
in
their
minds,
which
is
kind
of
a
neat
thing.
A
That's
cool,
hey!
You
know
what
I
I
didn't
see.
My
monique
jane,
wonderful,
you've
got
you've
got
something
to
say:
go
ahead.
F
Yeah,
so
talking
about
the
things
that
we
were
discussing
throughout
this
chat,
so
I
mean
as
a
student
when
I
was
taking
the
course
at
york
university,
the
blockchain
course
so
I
mean
I
also
had
these
same
dilemma
like
where
to
go
and
how
to
approach
people
like
what's
happening
in
the
industry
and
now
that
I've
been
with
baseline
for
quite
some
time.
So
we
have
created
a
channel
under
the
baseline
slack
and
I've
posted
that
in
the
in
the
comment
chat.
F
So
maybe,
if
new
students
and
grads
from
university,
I'm
I
mean
from
the
do,
you
think
university
wants
to
join
the
channel
and
see
like
how
exactly
we
are
proceeding.
So
I
mean
we'll
be
most
happy
to
have
the
students.
C
Yeah
thanks
for
sharing
that
money.
That
reminds
me,
too,
that
we've
had
an
influx
of
undergrad
and
grad
students
in
the
baseline
community,
who
are
exploring
researching
baseline
for
their
thesis
statements,
and
things
like
that,
so
super
exciting
to
have
people
have
direct
applications
with
what
they're
learning
in
their
programs
to
baseline
and
having
an
inclination
to
research
more
about
it.
So
thanks
for
setting
that
that
slack
up
money,
we
should
get
it
more.
Active
and
that'll
be
a
good
place
to
connect
with
all
these
students.
A
A
In
the
in
zoom
or
in
youtube
as
well,
if
you,
if
you
want,
is
that
all
right.
A
Yeah,
and
so
it's
all-
let's
talk
about,
I
mean
the
core
devs
call
on
monday
was
pretty
great,
you
said,
and
team
is
growing,
grant
money
is
in
more
grant
money
coming
and
and
to
tie
back
to
jimmy.
Also
jimmy's
got
a
a
kind
of
a
grant
program
going
on
yeah
tell
sonal
tell
us
about
the
how
we're
doing
on
the
on
the
projects.
C
Yep
we
did
happily,
and
then
we
have
our
tsc,
who
will
be
working
on
their
road
mapping
to
outline
what
some
key
priorities
should
be
for
baseline
in
the
coming
months.
So
as
we're
settling
down
the
open
issues
on
the
repo
that
core
devs
are
working
on.
C
I
think
we'll
see
a
big
flow
of
proposals
coming
in
based
on
the
road
map
as
well
as
anyone
is
encouraged
to
add
to
our
blips
repo
with
ideas
on
implementations
or
examples
or
use
cases
or
any
ideas
you
have
for
the
baseline
team
that
can
get
devs
behind
it
or
our
outreach
team,
putting
it
together
as
a
story,
but
super
cool
to
start
having
a
lot
of
traction
in
the
community.
C
We
have
core
devs
from
different
companies
or
universities
joining
each
session,
which
is
very
exciting,
so
everybody's
getting
excited
about
what's
happening
with
baseline
and
we're
starting
to
just
do
some
hygiene
and
other
exercises
on
our
docs
and
our
github
to
get
ourselves
in
a
place
where
the
the
documentation
kind
of
updates
itself
or
doesn't
require
a
lot
of
manual
work.
So
our
devs
can
be
heads
down
developing
in
the
upcoming
months,
but
a
lot
of
traction
and
super
excited
to
have
such
a
big
core
devs
group.
A
Yeah
matt
monique
worked
on
some
stuff
right
and
jimmy.
You
know
your
students
bina
out
there,
your
students,
you
want
to
make
some
money.
You
know
you
could
you
know
you
could
double
duty
right.
I
did
this
when
this
is
in
the
80s.
I
got
weirdly
I
got
in
trouble
and
then
I
got
kudos.
At
the
same
time
I
had
three
different
classes.
I
had
a
a
anthro
class,
a
linguistics
class
and
neurology
class
at
cal,
in
like
1987.
A
and
and-
and
I
thought
you
know
why-
don't
I
write
the
same
paper
for
all
three
classes.
So
I
think
that
the
paper.
B
A
Was
a
good
paper
was
brain
encephalization
in
hominids,
some
linguistics,
linguistic
evolution
and
brain
encephalization
and
hominids
right,
and
so
I
turned
the
paper
into
all
three
professors
and
the
linguistics
professor
found
out,
and
he
gave
me
a
b
because
he
didn't
like
that.
I
did
it.
I
did
double
duty,
but
I
thought
I
should
have
gotten
an
a
plus
for
for
ingenuity.
A
D
Is
there
is
so
for
there
we
start
to
walk
a
fine
line
on
some
of
those
things.
John,
you
know,
especially
for
students
that
are
here
on
visas.
We
walk
a
very.
We
walk,
a
very
fine.
D
Yeah
yeah,
you
know,
but
if
you're,
if
you're,
if
you're
working
with
grad
students
in
quantitative
fields,
they're
pretty
much
all
on
visas
or
at
least
the
vast
majority
of
their
own
visas,.
D
A
D
D
Yeah,
I
know
well,
we
need
to
start
teaching
math
in
in
schools
in
the
united
states,
but
you.
A
D
I
mean
we
we
need,
we
need.
We
need
a
lot
more
math
hot
in
schools
in
the
us.
It
is,
it
is
astounding,
what's
not
offered
here
or
what's
not
pushed
here.
Maybe
maybe
it's
offered
it's
just
not
pushed
very
much
the
you
know.
The
other
thing
is
from
any
for
anybody
here.
You
know
the
I
had.
I
have
students
that
graduate
every
semester.
D
It's
it's
a
three
semester,
long
program
plus
a
summer
internship,
but
a
lot
of
students
take
a
fourth
semester
because
they
want
to
take
a
couple
of
extra
classes
or
something
like
that,
and
so
I
have
students
graduating
every
semester
is
what
ends
up
happening.
So
my
students
that
graduated
in
december
100
of
them
received
offers
before
they
graduated,
which
was
which
was
great.
It
was
really
cool,
I'll
have
some
more
graduating
in
the
spring
and
all
of
them
are
not
committed.
Yet.
The
other
thing,
though,
is
internships.
D
It's
a
required
internship.
So
any
of
you,
if
any
of
you
all,
have
internships-
and
you
know
those
those
fall
in
under
the
visa
status.
You
don't
have
to
do
anything,
but
if
you
any
of
you
all,
have
internships
or
you're
looking
for
interns
for
the
summer.
You
know
these.
These
tend
to
be
very
quantitative
people.
They
have
a
lot
of
skills,
programming,
skills
and
data
skills,
and
things
like
that,
I
I
would.
I
would
highly
encourage
you
contact
me.
D
Send
me
links
tell
me
who
who
they
should
contact,
because
students
are
always
looking
to
work
in
more
cutting-edge
things.
Yes,
they
could
go
work
at
jpmorgan
chase.
You
know-
and
I
want
to
say,
that's
a
last
resort,
because
it's
not
for
some
of
them,
but
they
would
much
rather
work
in
cutting-edge
things.
So
if
you
have
any
internship
opportunities
that
would
be
great
and
then
permanent
employment,
obviously
there's
there's
there's
there
will
always
be.
As
I
said,
we
always
have
people
graduating.
D
So
those
are
those
are
both
out
there,
but
yeah
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
those
things
that
might
be
done
like
in
the
you
know.
During
the
term
they
get
they
get
kind
of
precarious,
for
some
of
the
visa
students
and
they're,
very
conscious
of
that.
They
know
that
what
they
can
do
and
what
they
can't
do
for
the
most
part.
They
know
the
department
of
homeland
security
rules,
even
though
they
change
weekly
very,
very
well,
and
they
they
know
that
they
can't
run
afoul
of
those.
So
that
is.
A
That
makes
sense.
Yeah,
that's
true!
So
hey
you
know,
I've
got
a
question
so
if
joe,
so
jimmy
and
being
if,
if
you
have
thoughts
out
there
on
this
is,
is
is
interest
in
graduate
programs
on
things
on
any
topic,
blockchain
and
machine
learning
whatever.
Is
it
a
lagging
indicator,
or
I
mean
because
certainly
with
blockchain,
if
I
want
to
convince
a
ceo
or
a
cto
or
cio
to
work
on
baselining,
I'm
gonna
lead
with
you're
being
forced
to
coordinate
with
other
companies
more
than
ever
and
you're
worried
about
giving
up
your
data.
A
It's
an
infosec
story,
coordination,
work,
multi-party,
workflows,
infosec
no
word
in
there
said
blockchain
the
minute
I
say
blockchain.
They
know
that
I
work
for
a
blockchain
company,
I'm
on
the
defensive
and
they're
saying
well:
we've
had
six
years
of
bad
experiences
with
that,
a
lot
of
them
right.
A
So
what
I
do
so,
what
we're
telling
enterprise
you
know?
Yes,
there's
blockchain
in
here,
but
it's
not
the
lead
story.
It's
it's!
You
know
I
like
I
like
that
we
can
use
blockchain
in
everything.
If
we
ask
it
to
do
almost
nothing
right,
you
know
it's
an
ordering
and
hash
management
and
proof
management
service.
A
You
can
use
that
at
scale
without
worrying,
about
noisy
neighbor
in
in
in
the
enterprise
or
in
any
business.
That's
serious
about
protecting
information,
but
the
minute
they
hear
blockchain
they're.
Like
oh
wait.
You
want
me
to
build
nfts
or
something
so,
I'm
you
know
the
students
are
excited
about
it.
Are
they
gonna
have
to
make
a
transition
kind
of?
Like?
A
D
I
mean
it's,
it's
it's
a
it's
a
really
good
question,
john.
I
think
that
I
think
that
they
are
probably
but
not
like.
It
was
when
you
and
I
were
in
school,
so
I
think
they
are
their.
I
think
their
ability
to
be
much
more
dynamic
is
just
worlds
ahead
of
where
you
and
I
were
at
the
same
time,
and
so
they
they
are.
They
are
looking
very
very
closely.
D
I
would
say
they
they
they
there
are
they've,
suggested
things
that
classes
and
things
along
those
lines.
Courses
of
study
that
are,
I
would
say,
pretty,
damn
dynamic.
Now
are
they
still
doing
some
older
stuff,
yeah,
of
course,
but
but
I
think
they
are
they're.
Not
they
probably
are
a
lagging
indicator,
but
where
you
and
I
were
a
two-year
lagging
indicator,
they're
a
two-month
lagging
indicator,
I
would
say.
A
B
Well,
let
me
let
me
ask
this
in
a
different
way:
go
for
it!
Why?
Why
would
you
know
fintech
or
mba
students
learn
about
blockchain
anymore?
Then
they
take
data.
You
know
database
courses,
for
instance,
because
databases
are
behind
so
many
business
models
right.
B
I
mean
what
I
mean
is
that
you
know
why
why
why
do
they
have
to
delve
so
much
into
the
technology
in
order
to
make
use
of
it?
I
mean
I
can
understand,
maybe
fintech,
but
you
know
mbas,
for
instance,
right.
It
is
in
in
some
ways
it's
a
sign
of
maybe
the
maturity
of
blockchain
or
the
lack
of
penetration
that
people
who
have
to
use
that
need
to
get
in-depth
into
the
technology
itself
right.
It's
not
in
a
usable
way
yet
for
most
use
cases.
E
Actually
can
I
can.
I
can
I
jump
in
here,
because,
actually
I
I
I
vehemently
disagree
with
that,
because
because
because
right,
blockchain
is
the
first
technology
that
marries
code
and
economics
at
the
protocol
level.
Nothing
else
exists
like
like
that.
We're
we're
marrying
behavioral
economics
with
with
software.
Therefore,
if
I
want
to
do
proper,
flash
loans
right
and
build
yield
farming
tools,
I
need
to
understand
how
the
ship
works,
because
otherwise
I'm
going
to
lose
hundreds
of
millions
of
dollars,
because
I
up
this
is
family.
B
A
B
E
It's
like
it's
like,
I,
I
and
and
not
a
lagging
indicator,
but
a
pointing
indicator
is,
is
I
I
do
a
little
sort
of
like
survey
work
on
the
side
where
people
are
asking
me
as
an
as
a
subject
matter,
expert
and
they're,
actually
paying
me
to
to
interview
me
for
like
an
hour,
and
I
have
three
areas
where,
where
I
get
all
the
traffic
right,
nfts.
E
E
Being
flashed
no,
but
it's
it's
like
it's
like
no,
but
I'm,
but
I'm
getting
it
from
from
technology
service
providers,
I'm
getting
them
from
institutional
investors
and
vc
firms.
So
those
are
those
are
three
very
different,
different,
different,
different
different
sets
that
have
very
different
objectives.
So
it's.
F
E
You
have
a
lot
of
institutional
investors
and
they're,
not
not
just
looking
into
into
into
buying
bitcoin
and
ethereum
etfs
in
in
in
canada.
Do
you
know
what
I
mean?
It's
like
it's
like
they're,
they're,
they're,
they're,
actively
doing
offering
yield
farming
products
staking
port
portfolios
to
their
to
to
their
high
net
worth
customers
and
and
then
we're
talking
serious
money.
I
mean
we're
not
talking
talking,
you
know
we're
we're
talking
about
like
the
guy
who
manages
ray
dalio's
money
kind
of
like
type
of
guy.
A
Shout
out
to
ray
so
we
have
reached
the
top
of
another
hour.
Andreas
we'll
have
to
have
another
one
of
these.
Where
we
talk
about
using
economics
for
to
deal
with
the
halting
function
and
whether
that
was
a
fever
dream
or
not.
E
B
One
thing
on
that,
if
I
could
just
you
know
the
la
one
word
on
that
by
the
way
the
databases
and
servers
did
power,
the
platform
business
model
right,
which
led
to
the
rise
of
the
googles,
microsoft,
except
for
the
world,
but
yeah
I
mean
I
I'd
love
to
have
a
discussion
on
these
things.
You
know
the
intermarriage
between
economics
and
technology
and
to
what
extent
you
know,
people
building
economic
models
need
to
get
into
the
technology
side
of
it
right.
A
Yeah,
by
the
way,
jimmy
siberia,
another
company
has
got
some
really
interesting
stuff
around
project
management
and
and
all
this
stuff,
it's
definitely
worth
taking
a
look.
We
are
out
of
time
it's
great
to
see
everybody
any
last
words.
Anyone.