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A
A
A
There
are
no
plan
fire
alarm
tests
this
evening.
So
if
we
hear
the
fireball,
please
make
your
way
out
of
the
building.
The
nearest
fire
exit
is
through
this
door
here
and
to
the
left
to
the
rear,
okay
or
alternatively,
to
the
rear
of
the
room
and
then
out
through
you
know,
potentially
the
main
entrance.
If
that's
not
blocked,
okay,
we
will
reassemble
in
the
War
Memorial
Park.
A
We've
got
four
items
of
business
tonight.
The
first
one
is
to
choose
a
recommendation,
one
of
three
on
a
report
about
housing
and
homelessness
strategy,
giving
our
views
to
the
portfolio
holder.
Second
item
of
business
is
to
review
and
comment
on
an
updated
form
of
words
proposed
by
a
report
regarding
maintaining
amenities
and
green
spaces.
In
response
to
a
motion
to
full
Council
and
three
to
receive
an
update.
A
Note
on
the
recommendations
of
the
eph
committee
on
the
water
cycle,
study
from
a
meeting
on
the
1st
of
September,
2023
and
four
to
review
and
note
a
committee
recommendation
tracker
in
order
to
get
through
tonight's
business
in
a
timely
manner
and
to
give
all
members
an
opportunity
to
comment.
I
will
be
initially
restricting
members
to
one
comment
or
question
perception
if
members
have
asked
their
question
and
wish
to
have
a
supplementary
I
would
then
want
that
that
moment
to
ask
me
as
chair
otherwise,
I'll
move
on
to
the
next
question.
A
If
there
is
time
and
all
members
have
been
given
an
opportunity
to
comment,
I'll
then
ask
members
for
more
questions.
If
you
run
out
of
the
allocated
time
for
that
section,
then
our
advisor
committee
stop
the
questions
and
ask
for
recommendations
to
the
portfolio
holder.
We'll
then
move
on
to
the
next
item
of
business
for
the
next
section
before
we
start
I
just
want
to
share
my
plan
and
timings
for
tonight
with
the
committee
agenda
by
item
number.
Five
okay,
I
reckon
will
take
us
about
one
hour.
A
Okay,
after
the
introduction
by
the
portfolio
holder,
I
intend
to
go
through
the
section
three
and
review
and
comment
on
the
key
issues
for
consideration,
starting
in
section
3.1.
Looking
at
the
successes
of
the
current
housing
and
homelessness
strategy:
okay,
starting
on
page
15
of
tonight's
paper
and
I've,
allocated
that
10
minutes.
A
I
then
want
to
review
and
comment
on
the
development
since
2020
in
the
report,
section
3.2
on
page
17,
Again,
10
minutes,
followed
by
a
review
and
comment
on
the
consultation,
section,
3.3,
10
minutes
and
then
followed
by
questions
and
comments
on
the
updated
priorities,
report,
section,
3.4,
page
19
again,
another
10
minutes
and
then
report.
Look
at
the
report
section
four
moving
forward
and
monitoring
the
strategy,
which
is
on
page
22
again
10
minutes.
I
then
want
to
finally
consider
with
this
paper.
A
The
options
and
Report
section
live
the
options
analysis
on
page
22,
where
I'd
like
to
hear
the
committee's
views
as
to
which
of
the
three
options
we
recommend
to
the
portfolio
holder,
then
moving
on
to
a
generator
number
six
in
front
of
the
committee.
Maintaining
amenities
green
spaces
I
want
to
allocate
35
minutes
in
total,
we've
got
a
speaker
Council
of
War
vaux,
who
will
take
four
minutes
then.
After
a
brief
introduction
from
the
portfolio
holder,
I'd
like
to
start
asking
for
questions
on
section
two
page
55.
A
I've
allocated
five
minutes:
okay
and
then
another
five
minutes
on
the
current
wording,
which
is
in
section
three
and
Page
56..
Okay,
before
moving
on
to
section
four,
the
new
proposed
updated
wording,
okay,
which
on
page
55,
which
I'd
like
to
spend
10
minutes,
okay
and
also
on
appendix
two
10
minutes
before
finally
spending
five
minutes.
A
So
looking
at
appendix
3
on
page
64,
before
recommendations
to
the
portfolio
holder,
item
agenda,
item
number
seven
is
to
review
and
notes
and
update
notes
on
the
recommendations
to
the
committee
regarding
the
review
of
the
water
cycle
study
on
the
1st
of
September
22
and
I've
located
35
minutes
of
that
section.
A
We
have
two
speakers
with
us:
that's
Jackie,
Brown
and
also
Dave
George
they'll
both
have
two
minutes
each
and
then
we'll
move
on
to
the
on
to
questions
and
on
the
update,
Note
and
then
finally,
agenda.
Miterate
is
80s
to
review
and
note
the
committee
recommendation.
Tracker
and
I've
allowed
15
minutes
on
that,
and
then
we
review
the
work
program.
A
If
we
stick
to
all
those
timings,
we
should
finish
about
9
30.,
okay.
So
looking
at
the
current
agenda,
excuse
me:
okay
agenda
item,
one
apologies
and
substitutions:
okay,
I
have
some
apologies:
okay,
I
have
apologies
from
Council,
Robinson
and
also
councilor
Peter.
Do
we
have
any
apologies
from
the
inside
no
substitutions
I
have
apologies
from
Council
ratigan
and
he
is
substituted
tonight
by
a
councilor
katechka.
Okay,
welcome,
Samir,
okay,
you're
always
welcome
to
the
committee.
It's
good
to
see
you,
okay,.
B
A
Anybody
else
have
any
more
absence:
apologies
and
substitutions.
A
A
No
okay,
so
Please
be
aware
you
can
make
a
decoration,
I'm
interested
anytime
through
the
meeting
okay.
So
moving
on
to
item
number
three
urgent
matters:
okay,
does
anybody
have
any
urgent
matters?
I
haven't
been
advised
of
any
no
great
okay
minutes
of
the
meeting
held
on
the
5th
of
January
I.
Have
them
here,
okay
in
front
of
me,
does
anybody
have
any
comments
on
accuracy
regarding
these
minutes?
A
No,
in
that
case,
what
I'd
like
to
do
is
I'd
like
to
to
move
that
those
are
an
accurate
record
of
the
meeting.
Do
I
have
a
second
Council
of
connect?
Sorry,
sorry,
councilor
kaneshko!
Yes,
thank
you
very
much.
Okay!
Is
that
agreed
agreed?
Thank
you.
I'll
sign
those
at
the
end
of
the
meeting.
A
Okay.
Moving
on
to
item
number
five:
okay,
with
the
housing
and
homelessness
strategy
review.
Okay,
what
I'd
like
to
do
is
I'd
like
to
invite
okay,
the
the
cabinet
member
councilor
Samuel
Carr,
to
introduce
the
report.
Thank
you.
C
Lovely
thank
you
very
much.
Chair
I
brought
this
paper
to
you
and
I.
Suppose
you
could
say
it's
it's
earlier
than
builds
so
when
we
first
looked
at
our
housing
and
homelessness
strategy,
it
was
before
I
was
a
member
of
this
Borough
Council
and
we
unanimously
agreed
our
2020
to
2024
documents,
and
it
was
an
aspirational,
excellent
piece
of
work
that
I
think
when
you
look
at
the
successes
later
on
in
the
paper
has
borne
fruits.
This
is
an
Administration.
C
This
is
a
council
that
has
developed
a
nationally
significant,
nationally
recognized
social
inclusion
partnership
that
has
seen
rough
sleeping
plummet
in
this
Borough,
and
that
has
seen
successes
on
the
homelessness
side
as
well.
It
is
notable
that
on
Tuesday
Figures
were
published
by
the
government's
own
homelessness
link
documents
which
showed
that
nationally,
unfortunately,
rough
sleeping
is
up
about
26.
However,
in
this
Borough
we've
not
seen
any
increase
and
I
think
that
is
Testament
to
the
work
that
we
as
a
council
are
doing.
C
C
Similarly,
this
Council
has
taken
upon
itself
a
number
of
obligations
and
aspirations
on
the
policy
side,
so,
for
example,
we're
seeking
accreditation
with
the
domestic
abuse,
housing
Alliance,
and
we
have
secured
our
accreditation
with
white
ribbon.
But
we
want
to
make
sure
that
the
service
we're
providing
reflects
those
new
corporate
positions
and
similarly,
there
have
been
learnings
as
part
of
the
recently
approved
council
plan
and,
of
course,
our
recent
LGA
review.
C
And
finally,
it's
very
important
to
me
personally
that
our
housing
and
homelessness
Service
reflects
our
aspirations
on
climate
change
and
on
regeneration.
And
one
of
the
things
we'll
note
when
you
read
through
the
paper
is
that
we've
moved
away
from
a
quite
woolly
language
about
Place,
shaping,
which
was
the
previous
priority
in
the
last
strategy
to
I.
Think
a
more
or
definitive,
clearer,
more
aspirational
and
directional
policy
in
regard
to
Regeneration,
and
so
my
hope
tonight
is
that
you'll
recognize.
This
is
not
a
fundamental
rewrite
of
our
approach.
C
And
finally,
what
I
would
note
is
that
there
are
a
number
of
key
areas
where
this
council
is
is
going
further
through
this
strategy.
So
notably,
we
are
placing
a
greater
emphasis
on
social
rent
as
part
of
affordable
delivery.
I
think
it's
important
to
recognize
that
affordable
homes
in
Basingstoke
are
not
as
affordable
as
we'd
like
them
to
be,
and
so
our
response
through
the
strategy,
is
to
place
new
emphasis
on
social
rent,
and
that
is
a
theme
that
I
think
we
will
start
seeing
throughout
our
various
documentations.
C
Equally,
this
strategy
envisages
the
creation
of
a
preferred
partnership
model
to
improve
our
relationships
with
our
social
housing
providers,
and
it
recognizes
a
number
of
changes,
notably
the
obligations
placed
on
us
by
government
in
relations
to
sort
of
persons
from
abroad
and
those
various
schemes
that
are
in
operation
from
Afghanistan
to
Ukraine
and
equally
legislative
changes
with
regard
to
First
homes.
So
I
very
much
I
hope
to
hear
your
views
on
strategy
tonight.
I
think
my
sense
looking
at
this
portfolio
was
that
doing
nothing
sitting
on
the
previously
approved
strategy.
C
Wasn't
really
a
meaningful
option,
given
how
different
2023
is
to
2020
and
I.
Feel
that
going
for
a
complete
rewrite
would
not
recognize
the
significant
benefits
that
our
previous
strategy
has
delivered.
So
I
think
we
have
an
optimal
middle
position
where
we
can
reaffirm
our
commitments
and
go
further
where
needed.
Thank
you,
chair.
A
Thank
you,
councilor
Carl,
okay,
just
going
on
to
section
three
looking
at
the
successes
of
the
current
housing
and
homesson
strategy:
okay,
page
15
of
tonight's
paper:
does
anybody
have
any
questions?
Council,
Cupid.
D
Yes,
Hano
good
evening,
chairman
Hank,
very
much.
Thank
you
very
much.
The
portfolio
holder,
I
I,
just
like
to
ask
a
question
about
his
introduction
and
summary
actually
because
I
suppose
you've
you've
outlined
why
you
are
bringing
this
to
us
and
what
is
being
done
and
how
you're
aligning
it
with
the
new
council
plan
and
improving
on
the
domestic
abuse
support,
but
I
just
wanted
in
a
nutshell.
What
have
you
improved
just
before
we
go
into
the
paper?
D
What
have
you
improved
with
regards
to
the
strategy
as
a
direct
result
of
the
new
council
plan?
Please.
C
Foreign,
thank
you
councilor
Cubit,
for
your
your
question.
I
think.
The
themes
that
we
put
forward
in
our
our
council
plan
are.
C
And
I
think
I
was
pleased
to
see
Council
endorse
them
earlier.
So
most
notably,
the
themes
in
the
council
plan
on
regeneration,
I
think
are
quite
clear
in
the
new
plan
that
we're
putting
forward
to
you
in
the
strategy.
So,
as
I
said,
we're
moving
away
from
a
relatively
vague
previous
strategy
point
on
Place
shaping
and
we've
moved
in
response
to
the
council
plan
towards
a
quite
definitive
view
on
regeneration
as
a
means
to
improve,
affordable
housing,
and
so
that
I
think
is
is
a
in
a
nutshell.
One
key
key
method.
A
E
Thank
you
chair
a
detailed
question
on
big
page
16,
little
page
six
of
15
on
the
the
table
where
we're
looking
at
our
notable
achievements
and
successes
under
homelessness
and
rough
sleeping.
There
are
a
couple
of
bullet
points
there
about
B
and
B
use,
and
a
couple
of
questions
that
come
out
of
that.
E
One
is
how
much
of
the
the
B
and
B
usage
is
outside
of
the
borough
and
particularly
for
some
of
the
families
who
are
homeless
and
who
obviously
have
children
who,
if
they
are
taken
outside
the
borough,
will
need
to
be
schooled
outside
the
borough
and
all
the
disruption
that
causes,
and
secondly,
it
talks
of
minimal
use
of
BNB
for
six
plus
week
families.
E
And
what
do
we
exactly
mean
by
minimal?
Thank
you.
F
Thank
you.
I
can
get
a
written
answer
in
terms
of
the
actual
breakdown
of
the
families
with
children
that
have
been
placed
in
BNB
and
whether
that
those
placements
have
been
I.
Think
it's
worth
noting
that
the
numbers
of
households
approaching
us
with
families
with
children
and
the
numbers
being
placed
in
BNB
as
a
consequence
of
very
very
few,
and
also
that
the
average
amount
of
time
that
people
are
spending
in
bed
and
breakfast,
and
this
will
follow
through
in
the
figures.
I
apologize.
F
I,
don't
have
them
with
me
tonight,
it's
a
very
short
period
of
time.
You
know
we
are
talking
that
less
than
six
weeks
for
the
majority
of
cases
that
we're
placing
and
where
we
have
exceeded
that
that
requirement
it's
been
literally
by
a
matter
of
days
and
there
have
been
exceptional
circumstances
around
those
cases,
and
that
is
really
a
buck
against
the
national
Trend,
where
there
have
been
lots
of
families
for
children
in
bed
and
breakfast
for
significant
periods
of
time.
F
So
I
can
certainly
follow
that
up
in
terms
of
a
written
answer
to
you
and
in
terms
of
minimal
the
reason
why
a
strategy
and
targets
within
a
strategy,
it's
helpful
to
use
phrases
like
Optimal
and
minimal
is
the
minute
you
you
use
a
widget.
It
becomes
a
very
fixed
measure
which
doesn't
necessarily
relay
the
context
with
which
we're
operating
for
the
whole
sort
of
the
whole
12
months
of
the
year.
So
I've
we've
also
talked
a
performance
panel
with
members
around
not
wanting
to
have
a
Target
that
drives
the
service
delivery.
F
So
if
my
team,
for
example,
are
dealing
with
homeless
families,
the
driver
for
them
should
not
be.
We
have
a
Target
and
we've
we've
exceeded
that
answer.
So
that's
why
we
say
minimal
and
the
way
that
we
excuse
me
the
way
that
we
manage
the
operational
delivery
of
that
service.
As
a
management
team
is
robustly
to
review
every
single
case,
that's
in
bed
and
breakfast
what's
the
plan
for
it?
How
quickly
will
they
move?
F
So
that's
what
we
mean
by
minimal
so
giving
members
the
assurance
that
we
are
actually
and
actively
ensuring
that
people
stay
in
bed
and
breakfast
for
as
least
time
as
possible.
I
would
say:
I
think
the
situation
is
slightly
different
for
single
people
that
don't
have
children
I
think
there
is
a
realization
that
some
use
of
bed
and
breakfast
isn't
unhealthy
as
it
may
have
previously
been
portrayed
for
some.
You
know.
G
You
chair
and
hopefully
holder
you
mentioned
in
your
statement
to
counselor
cubits,
that
in
the
council
plan
regeneration
was
at
the
four
of
the
council
plan
and
in
that
council
plan
he
mentioned
south
ham
and
black
skin
Ward,
where
the
aspiration
is
to
have
a
vision.
G
We
had
a
meeting
with
Sovereign
on
Monday
senior
officers
at
Sovereign
based
in
Hampshire,
and
they
had
only
discussed
it
at
a
board
level
at
National.
So
we
seem
to
be
way
behind
the
curb
and
they're,
not
it's
not
on
the
agenda
at
the
moment.
So
I
wonder
if
we
can
have
a
bit
of
a
back
date
on
that.
G
Please
and
also
we
talk
about
May
place,
we're
not
going
for
a
new
modern
building
now
and
we're
going
to
Regeneration
have
given
up
plans
to
find
a
new
multi-purpose
place
for
the
homeless
hostel.
Thank
you.
C
A
lovely
counselor,
Watts
I'll
pick
up
those
two
points
and
then
I'll.
Let
Kate
pick
up
again
on
the
the
second.
With
regard
to
your
May
Place
question,
so
with
regard
to
regeneration
of
basingstop
West,
it's
very
much
a
top
priority
for
me,
I
think
it's!
C
There
would
need
to
be
a
wide
number
of
public
sector,
Partners
involved,
as
well
as
Sovereign
and
naturally
basingstop
West,
Buckskin
and
south
ham
is
a
more
complicated
geography
by
virtue
of
some
homes
being
owns
some
homes
being
social
housing.
It
is
not
entirely
one
or
the
other,
and
then
there
are
various
within
that
other
partners
involved
in
terms
of
land
ownership.
C
So
it
is
more
complicated,
but
what
I
can
assure
you
is
that
the
Borough
Council-
and
you
know
myself
personally-
we
view
ourselves
as
the
key
sort
of
convening
power
to
make
this
happen,
to
bring
everyone
to
the
table.
On
the
specific
points
about
Sovereign,
no,
the
board
would
not
have
approved
a
vision
or
a
strategy
at
board
level.
C
At
this
stage
you
know:
we've
been
talking
to
various
people
at
some
board
level
on
this
and
I
think
it's
fair
to
say
that
Sovereign
have
recently
gone
through
a
restructure
that
has
affected
their
personnel
delivering
on
this
point,
but
we
do
want
to
get
it
to
cabinet.
At
this
point
we
want
to
get
it
to
council.
We
want
to
get
it
to
Sovereign
sport,
so
there's
a
determination
to
get
this
done,
because
we
recognize
with
your
Council
wants
that
this
is
a
really
really
important
strategic
priority,
as
reflected
in
our
council
plan.
C
C
I
have
to
say
when
I
came
into
the
portfolio
in
in
May
of
last
year.
One
of
my
first
actions
was
to
visit
May
Place
house,
because
I
was
very
conscious.
You
know
we
I
think
in
this
job.
You
need
to
see
to
understand
the
service
that
you
provide
and
I
went
around
the
facility
and
I
I
wasn't
really
content
with
the
service
that
is
being
provided,
there's
a
great
deal
of
Improvement
to
the
the
physical
building
there,
both
in
terms
of
standards
of
accommodation,
but
also
how
those
services
are
delivered.
C
You
know
our
colleagues
at
two
Saints
do
want
to
see
a
number
of
physical
changes
to
improve
service
provision,
so
that
is
ongoing.
That
is
a
conversation
that
we
are
having
right
now.
We've
got
past
blueprint
stages.
We
are
now
into
those
more
complicated
conversations
about
how
it
is
delivered,
but
I
can
assure
you
it
will
be
delivered
in
terms
of
the
previous
proposals
for
180
Culver,
Road
I
think
this.
This
Council
made
its
view
known
on
that
and
in
response
my
view
was
the
easiest
way
to
quickly
improve
the
service
for
single
person.
C
F
I
think
that
summarizes
the
position
perfectly
after
the
planning
permission
was
refused
at
Culver
Road.
The
options
were:
do
we
find
somewhere
else,
or
do
we
look
at
what
we've
got
and
and
to
be
honest,
I
think
one
of
the
drivers
initially
for
for
an
alternative
site
was
an
assumption
that
there
was
nothing
very
much
you
could
do
with
Naples
internally.
F
Actually,
we've
we've
been
able
to
with
within
an
architect,
take
a
fresh
pair
of
eyes
to
the
building,
and
actually
there
is
a
lot
of
scope
in
there.
We're
really
excited
about
the
plans
that
we've
drawn
up
so
because
we
don't
own
the
building.
We
commissioned
the
service
and
we,
but
we
don't
deliver
that
service.
A
Thank
you
very
much,
okay.
Finally,
because
we're
we're
almost
out
of
time
for
this
section,
councilor
James,
please.
H
Can
I
just
pick
up
on
the
point
before
I
ask
my
questions
around
the
bed
and
breakfast?
How
are
we
still
sending
people
out
of
area
and
he
forgot?
Is
it
possible?
You
could
give
us
maybe
send
us
some
sort
of
pictures
and
images
of
where
the
bed
and
breakfast
is
and
what
facilities
they
have
within
the
rooms
or
access
to
and
are
we
sending
families
out
of
area?
H
H
What
happens
to
that
information,
and
could
we
have
detailed
please
or
how
many
empty
homes
we
have,
what
the
breakdown
or
how
long
those
empty
homes
have
been
in
relation
to
six
months
a
year
on
all
the
ones
that
have
been
longer
than
because
obviously,
I
have
some
in
my
world
that
have
been
it
longer
than
five
years.
H
So
if
you
could,
but
thank
you.
F
Should
pick
it
with
a
bed
and
breakfast
I'm
fairly,
confident
that
the
majority
of
cases
other
than
for
safety
reasons
of
families
with
children
were
accommodated
within
the
borough,
with
a
caveat
that
I
will
check
that
there
may
have
been
one
or
two
cases
that
slipped
through
I
mean
there
have
been
less
than
20
this
year.
So
we're
talking
very,
very
small
numbers.
F
It's
easier
to
place,
families
with
children
into
bed
and
breakfast
within
the
borough.
Now,
because
bed
and
breakfast
establishments
will
take
our
bookings,
they
will
not
take
them
for
single
people
we're
having
to
make
those
placements
out
of
borough,
which
is
why
there's
so
much
emphasis
on
getting
people
back
into
the
borough
as
quickly
as
possible
in
the
importance
of
somewhere
like
May
place
and
keeping
that
place
turning
over
in
terms
of
giving
photos.
F
We
may
have
used
Basin
Stoke
Country
Hotel
from
time
to
time,
but
primarily
the
majority
of
placements
are
within
the
big
chains,
so
there's
everyone
they
may
be
or
may
not
I
mean
some
of
the
placements
we've
made
for
single
people
as
I
say
we
if
we
contact
and
try
to
make
the
booking,
we
can't
make
the
booking,
because
it's
from
Bezos
and
Dean
Borough
Council.
We've
therefore
done
a
lot
of
work
with
Julian
house
who
can
make
an
alternative
booking
and
their
bookings
tend
to
be
accepted.
So
it's
it's
it.
F
We
do
try
to
keep
people
within
the
borough,
but
if
we
do
have
to
place
them
outside
of
the
borough,
we
do
ensure
that
there
is
support
from
our
Outreach
service
and
from
other
services
to
them,
but
the
amount
of
time
people
are
spending
in
bed
and
breakfast
is
not
long
in
terms
of
empty
homes
there
there
is
a
kpi
in
relation
to
empty
homes,
but
it's
not
an
empty
homes
Target
per
se,
in
the
sense
that,
because
and
following
the
map
that
we
did,
which
I
think
was
around
2017.
F
to
us
but
which
you
were
part
of
there-
was
that
the
whole
range
of
work
that
was
done
around
some
of
those
those
empty
homes
and
we
we
remain
under
the
national
average
for
numbers
of
empty
homes
that
are
empty
for
up
to
for
long
periods
of
time.
Tom's,
probably
the
expert
I
can
I
can
pass
to
Tom
on
that.
F
But
just
in
terms
of
where
that
kpi
is
the
indicator
that
looks
at
the
number
of
private
properties
that
are
bought
into
use
for
homelessness
is
is,
is
sprung
from
the
original,
empty
home
properties
empty
home
kpis.
So,
where
the
kpis
to
say
numbers
of
properties
brought
back
into
use,
it
now
reads
as
number
of
private
sector
placements,
because
those
private
sector
placements
are
being
made
into
homes
that
are
otherwise
empty.
F
A
If
it
is
very,
very
quick
because
we're
out
of
time
and
I've
denied
two
questioners
okay
time,
so
if
it's
in
the
next
30
seconds,
then
fine.
I
Okay,
yeah
yeah
very
quickly,
then
the
yeah,
so
the
empty
homes
working
group
convenes
on
a
quarterly
basis.
So
that's
ourselves
an
environmental
health
and
council
tax
yeah.
So
we
don't
have
the
exact
numbers,
but
we
are
well
I
don't
happen
to
have,
but
I
can
get
them
few,
but
we
are
below
the
national
average
and
the
region.
I
Leverage
for
the
number
of
events,
your
homes
in
the
in
the
borough
and
the
working
group
does
work
to
kind
of
tackle
those
empty
properties
with
complex
issues,
and
that
could
be
for
various
reasons
in
terms
of
properties
going
through
probate
process
or
kind
of
establishing
contact
with
owners
and
where
we
have
limited
enforcement
due
to
kind
of
no
no
to
the
council,
and
we
have
recently
we're
all
just
about
to
bring
the
viables
farm
Cottages
homes
back
into
use
which
have
been
empty
for
five
six
years,
so
I
think
I've
exceeded
30
seconds
there.
A
You
very
much
Tom
if
you
can
give
a
written
answer
as
well
to
the
the
actual
number
of
empty
homes.
I
think
that
would
be
well
appreciated.
Okay,
I'm,
sorry
committee,
but
we're
out
of
time
on
on
that,
okay
and
I
apologize
to
those
those
members
who
I've
had
to
refuse
to
have
to
speak
on
this
section,
I'd
now
like
to
move
to
section
3.2,
which
is
on
page
17,
and
we
have
10
minutes
on
that
councilor
Cubit,
followed
by
councilor
McCormick.
Yes,.
D
Thank
you
very
much.
Mr
chair
Kate,
your
department
is
really
outstanding.
The
dealings
that
I've
had
with
your
department
in
relation
to
cases
has
been
really
exemplary.
So
I
can't
thank
you
enough
for
that.
However,
I
have
to
say
and-
and
I
would
like
to
hear
from
the
cabinet
member
on
this-
that
there
have
been
some
significant
changes
as
I
see
it.
D
Maybe
other
members
will
agree
with
me
when
comparing
measuring
successes
from
the
outset
of
the
original
strategy
in
2020
and
what
is
now
going
to
be
measured
going
forward
and
the
cabinet
member
touched
on
it,
but
he
kind
of
swerved
a
couple
of
balls
because
and
and
councilor
what
kind
of
tried
to
probe
and
I
tried
to
probe.
D
So
the
cabinet
members
said
that,
in
view
of
the
change
in
the
council
plan,
regeneration
is
now
being
more
clearly
explained
and
that
it
will
be
winklebring,
but
nowhere
in
this
paper
does
it
make
any
reference
to
Buckskin
or
south
ham
in
the
undertakings
or
in
the
measured
successes.
So
I
think
Council
watts
is
completely
fair
and
right
to
raise
it
and
I'm
not
sure
you've
answered
that.
D
So
whilst
it
might
be
complex,
it's
no
more
complex
than
Oak
Ridge
was
when
we
as
a
council
had
a
very
successful
regeneration
and
I
I
believe-
and
there
are
others
here
that
were
here
at
that
time,
who
can
confirm
that
there
were
mixed
houses
in
Oak
Ridge,
where
some
properties
were
private.
Some
were
housing
associations,
so
they
weren't
insurmountable
and
we
were
supposed
to
have
been
dealing
with
regeneration
from
2020..
D
So
we've
we
failed
to
meet
those
outcomes
that
we
undertook
to
take,
and
our
successes
and
our
strategic
outcomes
clearly
indicate
that
that
that
we
we've
lost
five
years.
The
same
is
true
of
me:
Pace,
because
there
was
an
undertaking
and
again,
we've
touched
on
this-
that
we
will
redevelop,
deliver
a
new
fit
for
purpose,
emergency
single
homeless
hostel.
We
all
know
the
background
of
Culver
Road.
D
We
all
know
about
the
planning,
but
nonetheless
we
failed
to
deliver
a
new
fit
for
purpose:
emergency
single
homeless,
hostel
and
finally,
just
these
are
three
issues.
I
could
go
on
a
lot
longer
in
terms
of
what's
not
on
track.
That
was
on
track.
That
was
part
of
a
strategy
that
doesn't
seem
to
have
met
its
outcomes
and
I'm,
not
blaming
the
officers.
At
all.
It's
clear
to
me.
D
It
looks
like
a
political
decision
not
to
proceed,
but
the
other
very
significant
change
was
that
we
had
an
undertaking
to
eradicate
by
2024
Russ,
leaping
now,
Kate's
touched
on
targets
not
being
useful
because
they
can
skew
activities
of
very
well
departments
and
I
completely
understand
that.
But
nonetheless,
somebody
politically
in
the
cabinet
has
made
a
decision,
one
to
limit
regeneration,
to
wrinkle
brain
to
not
to
build
a
new
fit
for
purpose,
emergency,
single
homeless,
hostel
and
three
not
to
eradicate
by
2024
rough
housing
and
I'd.
D
Like
an
explanation
as
to
why
those
metrics
of
success,
as
outlined
in
our
original
housing
strategy
of
2024-20
24
and
in
our
metrics,
as
outlined
in
the
measuring
success
and
monitoring
reports,
2021
2022,
of
course,
we're
now
in
2023..
So
I
can't
remember
I'd,
like
your
answer
to
those
three
points,
please.
C
Thank
you,
councilor
Cubit,
on
regeneration,
the
language
that's
been
used
in
the
report
is,
is
basing
State
West,
but
we
could
very
easily
refer
to
Buckskin
and
south
ham
in
the
paperwork.
C
Basic
mistake,
West
is
just
a
terminology
that
had
been
used
internally
between
Sovereign
and
ourselves,
but
we
can
very
easily
change
that
to
bug
skin
and
southamp.
Those
geographies
are
our
coterminus
in
terms
of
the
allegation
of
of
failure.
C
C
It
obviously
remains
for
development
control
to
come
to
a
view
on
that.
Obviously,
I
would
prefer
that
to
be
passed
for
the
benefit
of
the
people
of
winklebury.
C
On
her
second
point
with
regard
to
a
fit
for
purpose:
single
homelessness,
hostel,
my
predecessor,
councilor
Robinson
Jr,
obviously
brought
forward
a
proposal
at
180
Culver
roads.
This
Council
chose
not
to
approve
that
through
development
control
and
given
that
there
are
no
sites
that
are
obviously
immediately
to
hand
for
that.
C
My
view
is
that
we
want
to
deliver
improvements
to
May
Place
house
and
those
conversations
are
ongoing
and
I
hope
to
make
announcements
not
too
long
from
now,
but
given
that
we
want
to
make
improvements
now
in
the
interim
and
I
think
that's
a
a
good
thing
to
do,
but
we
as
a
council
are
open
to
any
and
all
suggestions
from
Members
about
sites
that
could
provide
a
a
single
person
alternative.
C
On
the
point
about
eradicating
rough
sleeping
that
absolutely
Remains
the
priority
of
this
Council
and
I.
Think
that
you
know
our
figures
do
demonstrate
that
we're
making
great
progress
on
that
I've,
no
problem
at
all
in
reinstating
the
the
for
2024
I
think
perhaps
in
the
drafting
stage
that
may
have
that
may
have
fallen
off,
but
that
will
definitely
go
back
on
the
document
by
the
time
it
gets
to
to
Cabinet.
I
have
no
objection
to
that.
C
This
has
gone
through
many
eyes,
of
course,
and
I'm
very
happy
to
to
ensure
that
that
goes
back
in
and
did
you
want
to
add
anything
Kate.
D
A
A
Well,
no,
if
you
can
submit
that
in
writing,
I'll
make
sure
that
it's
it's
answered,
okay
and
and
then
we'll
attach
that
to
the
minutes.
Okay,
Count's
gonna
call
me
please
all.
J
Right,
thank
you
chair,
so
I
got
some
questions
on
some
of
the
bullet
points
in
v21
and
some
of
the
information
that
it
says
a
more
detailed
out
on
these
issues
and
penically
with
some
of
that
information
I
think
is
missing.
So
having
a
look
at
the
affordability
issues
of
the
cost
living
crisis
on
page
37,
it
does
appear
that
we
have
had
a
marked
increase
in
Market,
rent
and
social
rent
between
April
and
November
2022
six
month
period.
J
J
You
know
there's
weights
of
several
years.
So
can
you
confirm
to
me
the
yearly
weights
for
for
two
three
and
four
bed
properties
and
looking
at
the
increase
in
Market
rent
I
mean
this
looks
like
20
for
two
and
three
bed
properties.
I.
Think.
Is
that
true,
what
what
can
we
do
about
that?
That's.
My
first
question
also
mentioned
in
the
bullet
point
and
I
couldn't
find
any
evidence
this.
J
The
changes
of
housing
standards
particularly
regards
to
damper
mold
and
fire
safety
act
2021.,
so
I
presume
that
the
the
changes
were
as
a
result
of
the
hour
of
ishak
case.
So
that's
relatively
recent.
What
changes
have
actually
happened
to
housing
standards
since
then,
What
legislation
has
been
passed.
J
You
know
what
has
been
brought
in
front
of
this
Council
to
reflect
that,
because
I'm
not
aware
of
any
legislation,
that's
been
passed
so
just
aware
of
the
relevant
Secretary
of
State
exhorting
housing
associations
to
try
harder
with
dampen
mold
in
homes,
but
the
problem
is
it's.
The
problems
are
twofold
of
that:
you've
got
Mason's
backlog
issues,
housing
associations
that
don't
have
the
money
to
make
repairs
and
the
government's
not
backing
them
up
and
we've
also
got
cost
living
crisis.
J
That
means
that,
because
fuel
bills
are
going
up,
we've
also
got
people
unable
to
heat
their
homes.
So
I'd
like
to
know
what
changing
house
has
come
in
where
Wisconsin
malt
and
also
fire
safety
act
2021
for
high-rise
Flats.
What
are
the
changes
in
standards?
And
what
is
the
council
seeking
to
do
to
address
those
issues?
Because
we've
still
got
people
in
Crown
Heights
who
are
living
in
accommodation
where
the
cladding
has
been
deemed
unsafe.
As
a
second
inspection,
the
first
one
apparently
passed
it.
Thank
you.
C
Council
card,
thank
you,
councilor
McCormick,
for
your
your
three
questions.
I.
Will
let
Kate
pick
up
on
the
the
figures
about
weights
for
you
and
then
moving
on
to
your
your
second
question,
which
was
in
relation
to
housing
standards,
so
I
think
there
are.
C
There
are
two
things,
so
the
first
is
that
there
is,
as
you
may
recall,
I
made
a
statement
previously
on
this
there's
a
commitment
from
the
Borough
Council
to
be
clearer
and
firmer
on
our
expectations
of
social
housing
providers
with
regard
to
damp
and
mold
and
the
condition
of
properties.
If
you
recall,
I
answered
a
question
from
a
colleague
around
this
table
on
that
point,
those
are.
C
The
first
is
a
political
commitment
which
I
think
we
want
to
encapsulate
in
our
strategy,
and
the
second
is
that
the
government
is
clearly
moving
on
social
housing.
There
is
a
bill
before
Parliament
at
the
moment,
which
is
the
social
housing
regulation
bill,
and
we
know
that
the
the
secretary
of
state
is
very
keen
to
place
greater
obligations
on
social
housing
providers.
C
This
strategy
document
foresees
some
of
those
changes
and
initials
that
our
policy
is
set
up
to
align
with
that
emerging
legislation
and
then
the
third
Point,
to
give
me
what
bring
up.
What's
the
third
point,
Sorry
councilman
McCormick.
J
Fast
safety
act
and
what
can
be
done
to
help
people
in
places
like
Crown,
Heights.
C
Thanks,
so
thank
you,
councilor
McCormick
I
will
ensure
that
Chris
Williams
in
our
housing
standards
team
gets
back
to
you
with
a
written
update
on
that.
F
Be
very
brief:
I'm
in
terms
of
the
average
waiting
times
for
two
three
and
four
bedroom
houses,
a
very
detailed
Report
with
the
annual
allocations
review
was
submitted
to
scrutiny
committee
just
a
couple
of
months
ago.
I
will
forward
that
paper
to
you,
Council
to
all
council
members
with
with
the
link
on
that,
and
we
are
just
about
to
at
the
end.
Obviously,
at
the
end
of
this
month,
do
our
next
annual
review.
F
So
when
the
annual
review
is
published,
you'll
be
able
to
see
we'll
be
able
to
see
what
the
comparisons
are,
but
but
generally
waits
for
two
and
three
bedroom
properties
in
particular,
tend
to
be
lower
than
for
other
areas
within
Hampshire
and
had
been
falling,
but
I'll.
Allow
you
the
pleasure
of
reading
all
of
that
report
and
its
appendices,
and
you
can
come
back
to
me
offline
if
you
had
any
sort
of
query
about
that,
but
it
did
go
through
a
detailed
scrutiny
very
recently.
Thank.
A
You
very
much
okay,
a
very
quickly
councilor
canesco.
Please
thank.
E
You
chair
I,.
A
Council
James
I've
got
you
after
Council
canesco,
okay,
but
he
is
because,
unfortunately,
we
will
be
out
of
time.
Okay
by
the
by
the
time
that
we've
we've
gone
through.
Okay,
let.
J
H
I
have
spent
a
lot
of
time
reading
it
and
I'm
not
going
to
even
be
given
a
chance
to
ask
questions
on
it,
even
to
be
able
to
ask
just
one
question,
but
I've
had
about
three
or
four
in
relation
to
this
section.
It
really
is
very
little
point
in
being
part
of
this
committee.
If
this
is
now-
and
this
is
going.
H
A
Thank
you
very
much.
Okay,
so
we've
had
a
motion:
we've
had
it
seconded,
okay,
there's
no
confidence
Motion
in
myself,
so
I
would
like
to
put
it
to
the
vote
so
who
has
who's
going
to
vote
for
the
motion.
A
A
I've
already
set
an
hour
okay
to
go
through
this
paper,
and
if
we
do
that
with
an
hour
with
all
the
other
stuff,
with
that,
we've
got
to
get
through
all
the
other
business
items
we
can
get
through
it,
okay
by
following
the
pattern
by
9,
30.,
okay,
so
so
just
just
hold
on
please
councilor,
James,
okay.
So
therefore,
okay,
it's
my
duty
as
chair
to
make
sure
that
the
committee
goes
through.
Okay,
the
the
and
gets
the
business
done
in
a
timely
fashion.
Okay
I've
outlined
the
plan.
A
Okay
in
this
particular
section,
like
the
last
section
we
had
10
minutes,
but
unfortunately
with
Council
qubit,
okay,
she
was
taking
up.
You
know
40
percent
of
the
the
allocated
time.
So
you
know
I
I've
already
been
denying
questions
from
from
this
side
here.
As
soon
as
we
went
over
10
minutes,
okay,
so
I'm
I'm
being
fair.
Okay,
now
there's
a
motion
on
the
table:
okay,
for
a
vote
of
no
confidence.
Okay,
who
is
in
favor
of
the
motion?
Please.
A
Okay,
that
motion
is
carried
if
you
just
like
hold
on
I'll,
confer
with
with
Rebecca
and
we'll
see
where
we
go
from
there.
A
I've
been
advised
that
I'll
be
handing
over
the
meeting
to
the
vice
chair
and
I'll,
be
leaving
the
room.
Thank
you.
E
Right,
okay,
that
obviously
wasn't
expected.
We
will
continue
on
with
the
meeting
I'm
happy.
I
I
get
the
sense
from
the
committee
that
we
want
to
be
a
bit
more
flexible
in
terms
of
timing,
so
I'm
very
happy
to
do
that.
I
would
remind
the
committee
there
that
we,
obviously
we
do
want
to
finish
at
a
reasonable
time.
So
if
you
can
keep
your
questions
to
a
minimum,
that
would
be
hugely
appreciated.
I
think
I'm.
Actually
next
on
the
list.
E
So
I
will
ask
my
question
briefly
and
it's
to
do
with
the
detail
of
updated
priorities
table
on
page
20.
E
E
However,
I
think
that
the
commentary
about
what
we're
going
to
do
in
terms
of
addressing
the
climate
emergency
is
quite
Woolly,
and
when
you
look
at
the
more
detailed
Target
table
on
page
51
in
appendix
5,
it
doesn't
provide
much
more
detail
either.
It
still
talks
about
proactively,
supporting
and
working
with
housing
associations
to
to
tackle
the
climate
emergency.
So
I
was
wondering
if
the
portfolio
holder
could
explain
why
we
can't
be
more
robust
in
terms
of
setting
our
targets.
There.
C
Thank
you,
councilor
and
I
think
it's
a
great
shame
that
we've
lost
councilors
Frost
from
this
meeting,
who
I
think
was
chairing
it
in
a
professional
way
and
I.
Think
it's
unfortunate
that
partisan
politics
has
played
a
role
in
the
scrutiny
of
the
document,
which
is
for
the
less
affluent
and
less
fortunate
in
our
community.
I
think
that
is
a
a
great
shame
indeed
now,
in
answer
to
the
question
put
for
us
on
climate
change,
I
think
it's
worth
noting
that
this
is
a
high
level
document.
C
This
is
a
document
that
sets
out
Direction.
This
is
a
document
that
sets
out
our
strategic
priorities,
I'm
very
open
to
further
suggestions
from
members
of
the
committee
about
how
this
area
can
be
tightened.
How
we
can
improve
this
section
I
think
that's
the
very
much
the
purpose
of
policy
making
and
and
this
committee
process,
if
members
wanted
to
to
write
to
either
myself
or
to
cake
with
suggestions
about
how
that
could
be
tightened,
we'd
be
very
open
to
receiving
that.
H
H
So
I
really
want
to
see
a
lot
more
in
there
green
housing
standards,
delivery,
module
model,
designs,
solar
panels,
electric
charging
points
and
loads
more,
but
we
need
to
be
much
more
about
what
we
want
in
there
and
really
push
from
a
housing
perspective
same
as
with
regeneration,
I,
think
it's
better
than
it
was
and
I
think
it's
much
better
than
it
was
in
relation
to
where
this
Administration
was
taking
it,
but
I'd
like
to
see
more
we're.
H
Gonna
have
a
new
regeneration
manager
coming
in
director
and
I
would
just
want
more
than
this
and
I
think
we
can
be
even
more
ambitious
and
regeneration
can
be
much
wider
than
just
the
fabric
of
the
housing
that
we're
doing
so.
I
think
we
should
put
a
lot
more
substance
to
this
part
of
the
your
strategy
in
relation
to
the
housing
choice
and
standards
in
picked
up
by
Andy
in
relation
to
housing.
Standards.
I
want
to
see
more
around
balconies
and
windows.
H
We've
got
windows
on
top
floor
Flats
in
most
of
my
ward
that
have
no
catches
so
open
and
they're
all
being
housed
with
young
children,
and
they
can
fall
out
the
doors
don't
lock,
and
so
they
can't
shut
the
doors
as
though
they're
unable
with
their
children.
So
it's
a
significant
issue
around
housing
standards
in
relation
to
this
section.
I
also
want
to
pick
up
on
the
point
about
choice.
H
If
I
just
remind
you
of
what
was
in
the
report
at
the
annual
monitoring
report,
we
built
82,
two-bedroom
flats
and
50
houses
affordable,
so
62
of
all
the
flats
that
were
built
were
62
of
them
were
Flats.
Therefore,
there
isn't
a
choice
and
want
to
pick
up
on
prams
and
no
lifts
when
we
store
brands
and
lots
more,
but
we're
not
gonna
have
a
lot
of
time,
so
I'll
leave
it
there.
Champ
thank.
C
Yes,
sir,
thank
you
Vice,
chair
sure,
I'm,
not
quite
sure,
I
think
it's
worth
remembering
that
we
do
have
a
separate
climate
change
strategy
and
that
this
is
a
high
level
document
that
seeks
to
integrate
our
climate
change
aspirations
into
our
housing
service.
C
But
we
do
have
that
separate
corporate
strategy,
but
as
I
as
I
said
to
the
the
chair
or
the
vice
chair,
we
are
very
open
to
suggestions
in
writing.
That
could
come
in
afterwards
to
tighten
this
policy
section
in
terms
of
regeneration.
I.
Think
it's
worth
noting
that,
yes,
we
have
just
brought
in
a
new
regeneration
Service
as
part
of
our
our
council
plan.
So
we
have
a
new
regeneration
manager.
C
New
regeneration
director
coming
in
I
think
it
was
relatively
clear
that
regeneration
was
falling
between
two
stools
in
various
different
parts
of
the
council.
We
know
how
they
direct
service,
whose
responsibility
is
deliver
these
aspirations.
I
think
that
is
a
good
thing
that
we
have
achieved,
and
on
that
point
it's
worth
noting
that
you
know
our
vision
for
regeneration
is
that
it's
not
simply
residential.
C
It
is
also
about
delivering
Community
gain
and
all
of
those
sort
of
facilities
and
amenities
that
make
communities
worth
living
in
so
I
would
agree
in
that
sense
and
then
on
Windows
and
balconies,
obviously
Kate's
here
and
will
will
be
conscious
of
that
from
either
operational
delivery.
Size.
C
K
Yeah,
it's
just
really
important
information.
I
sit
on
the
climate
change
map
and
last
year
we
had
our
social
housing
Partners.
Well,
it
was
certainly
Sovereign
presented
their
plans
for
tackling
the
climate
change.
The
disappointing
thing
was
they're
targeting
2040.
We
want
2030,
but
I.
Think
it's
a
good
starting
point
that
the
information
is
actually
out
there
and
has
already
been
presented.
Maybe
you
could
think
about
incorporating
that
and
we
could.
We
could
take
that
as
a
starter.
So
thank
you
to.
E
C
Only
only
to
say
that,
obviously,
we
are
supportive
of
our
social
housing,
Partners
being
really
public
and
transparent
with
their
climate
change
policies,
and
you
know,
we'd
encourage
them
to
be
aspirational,
but
obviously
there's
a
degree
to
Which
social
social
housing
authorities
are
third
parties
and
are
going
to
have
their
own
strategy,
and
it's
the
role
of
board
members
in
this
Council
to
encourage
them
to
go
further.
But
it's
probably
not
the
place.
These
properties
document
is
probably
not
the
place
for
that.
D
Thank
you
very
much,
Mr
chairman,
just
just
in
response
to
the
cabinet
member.
This
is
not
a
partisan
decision.
It
was
merely
that
the
scrutiny
and
over
UE
committee
was
certainly
not
working
in
a
way
that
we've
been
used
to
it
working
for
the
last
15
years.
D
I
wanted
actually
to
thank
you
Cabinet
member
for
agreeing
to
add
the
word
eradicate
back
into
the
document
and
that
it
was
an
accent
it
had
slipped
out.
So
thank
you
very
much.
I
was
also
going
to
thank
you
for
agreeing
to
Define
basingstop
West,
which
is
not
a
term
and
knowledge
that
I
know
and
to
include
Buckskin,
specifically
in
Southampton,
so
I.
Thank
you
for
that.
What
I
wanted
to
ask
and
pick
up
on
was
in
relation
to
this
paper,
which
I
also
agree
with.
D
You
is
about
our
most
vulnerable
in
our
Borough
and
therefore
is
really
a
document.
That's
extremely
important
that
we
get
the
time
and
ability
to
discuss
and
scrutinize,
what's
being
done
on
on
our
behalf
and
and
as
I
said
earlier
to
to
also
to
commend
the
department
that
runs
it
as
well
as
they
do.
What
I
wanted
to
know
is
in
2020
21.
We
said
that
may
Pace
house.
D
D
So
what
I'd
quite
like
to
know
is
who
politically
has
decided
that
now
the
location
is
in
fact
acceptable
and
because
I
know
the
site
very
well
and
I
have
to
say
that
on
many
levels,
I
would
agree
with
what
we
originally
said
in
2020,
which
is
that
in
terms
of
design,
location
facilities
not
fit
for
purpose,
and
secondly,
even
by
2020,
we
knew
about
the
Culver
Road
refusal
and
the
housing
team
was
undertaking
to
consider
more
suitable
accommodation
and
they
were
looking
for
alternatives.
C
Thank
you,
councilor
Cuba.
We
may
have
to
agree
to
disagree
on
the
matter
of
the
chair,
as
we
do
on
almost
everything.
It
seems
on
May,
Place
house
I.
Think
it's
worth
noting.
You
know.
I
I
agree
that
may
Place
house
is
not
the
optimal
situation
for
the
services
it
provides.
However,
we
have
to
be
pragmatic.
C
I
believe
that
the
sensible
thing
to
do
would
be
to
work
on
a
program
to
improve
its
design
and
its
facilities,
and
we've
spoken
to
two
Saints.
We
spoken
to
the
building
owners
and
we
have
got
a
plan
in
place
to
invest
in
that
so
I
I
think
it
is
a
sensible
thing
to
do
to
improve
the
facilities
in
the
location
where
they
are
at
present.
But
no
one
has
to
your
point.
Counselor
Cuban
made
a
decision
not
to
look
for
alternative
sites.
C
E
G
Thank
you.
Mine
was
more
some
information
again
from
our
meeting
on
on
Monday
with
Sovereign
statistics
came
out
of
that
meeting
since
April,
and
last
year,
they've
had
over
900
cases
of
damp
and
mold
in
properties.
Obviously
some
of
them
could
have
been
going
to
the
same
properties,
but
that's
a
really
scary
figure
and
actually,
at
the
moment,
they've
got
100
over
190
sensors
out
in
properties
monitoring
whether
the
heat
is
actually
getting
to
the
18
degrees
and
people
out.
G
There
are
not
actually
heating
their
houses,
which
is
because
they
can't
afford
to
and
it's
causing
mold
and
damp
so
going
back
to
our
regeneration.
It
gives
this
a
real
priority
in
that
a
lot
of
our
housing
stock
isn't
fit
for
purpose,
and
it
should
be
a
real
emphasis
on
the
on
this
Council.
That's
more
of
a
statement
really
thank
you.
C
Thank
you,
councilor
Watts,
I,
think
you
know
it's
really
important
to
to
me
and
to
the
administration,
and
you
know
to
to
everyone
I
think
in
this
Council
that
residents
are
are
safe
in
their
homes
and
I.
Think
that's
something
that
I
said
before
on
record
and
you
know
we
have
stepped
up
our
work
on
the
housing
standards
side
on
enforcement
of
dampen
mold.
It's
very
much
a
priority
and
you'll
see
from
government
centrally
that
they
are
stepping
up
their
efforts
on
that
as
well.
C
I
think
it's
really
important
that
where
this
is
a
role
for
Ward
members,
I
think
where
Ward
members
are
aware
of
particular
specific
cases
in
homes.
We
really
want
that
to
be
reported
to
our
housing
standards
team.
You
know
we
really
want
people
to
work
with.
We
want
Ward
members
to
work
with
our
environmental
health
Team
our
housing
standards
team,
because
if
problems
are
arising
in
people's
homes,
we
want
to
be
able
to
help
sort
that
out
and
on
the
the
second
point
about
regeneration,
I.
L
Thank
you,
chair,
I
I
want
to
repeat
counselor
cubitz
thanks
to
the
hard-working
officers,
and
certainly
I
mean
I've
I've
six
months,
seven
months
in
now
in
my
counselor
duties,
and
certainly
every
interaction
I've
had
with
Kate
and
our
team
has
been
absolutely
exemplary
and
a
fantastic
healthy
with
my
casework.
I
just
wanted
to
go
back
to
the
homelessness
rough
sleepers
part
of
the
strategy,
because.
L
So
I
I
mean
recommendations
to
the
social
inclusion
partnership
I
mean
they
have
a
real
track
record
of
hard
work
and
Innovation
and
expertise.
We
can't
rest
on
our
Laurels
and
I
guess
absolutely
I.
I
thank
the
portfolio
holder
for
for
making
that
statement
that
we
are
still
aiming
to
achieve.
Zero
rough
sleepers
by
2024.
L
is,
is
the
figure
of
two
still
correct,
and
how
is
that
achievable
because
again,
I
appreciate
that
there's
some
sort
of
a
lot
of
complex
issues
at
hand
really
with
trying
to
get
these
individuals
the
help
they
need.
Thank
you.
M
F
Thank
you.
The
figure
today
is
not
the
figure
the
day
after
the
camp
could
be
naught.
It
could
be
three.
You
know
this
is
a
very,
very
fluid
situation.
I
think
the
issue
around
using
numbers
is
a
tricky
one,
and
absolutely
the
Strategic
objective
of
eradicating
rough
sleeping
doesn't
mean
that
you
get
there
once
and
then
you
pack
up
and
go
home
because
the
causes
of
rough
sleeping
continue.
We
know
this
and
the
causes
of
rough
sleeping
have
Amplified
over
the
last
few
years.
F
So
this
is
around
how
we
State
our
firm
commitment
to
ensure
that
nobody
needs
to
sleep
rough
on
the
streets,
understanding
that
on
some
occasions
for
some
periods
of
time,
some
people
may
what's
absolutely
important
and
imperative
with
rough
sleeping
measuring
your
rough
sleeping
strategy
is
the
confidence
with
which
you
know
that
you
have
a
range
of
services
and
a
range
of
providers
and
a
range
of
options
to
get
people
off
the
street
as
quickly
as
possible,
and
it's
been
very,
very
difficult.
F
When
we've
been
talking
about
numbers,
you
know,
if
it's
two
does
that
mean
we
failed
we're?
Not
so
it
means
that
we
just
continue
to
do
the
work
we
do
to
keep
those
you
know
to
maintain
the
impetus
that
we
have
done.
I
think
it's
it's
clear
that
it's
really
important
to
get
that
right,
because
it's
not
just
us
that
we're
talking
about
it's
the
entire
social
inclusion
partnership
that
is
absolutely
passionately
committed
to
making
sure
that
that
this
Borough
Council
has
no
rough
sleepers
on
our
streets.
F
And
it's
a
bit
like
saying
you
know
we
have
exemplary
Health
Services,
but
that
doesn't
mean
that
somebody
won't
be
sick
from
time
to
time.
It's
that
type
of
a
thing.
So
what
we
do
is
look
at
the
historical
figures,
26
down
to
zero
and
then
sort
of
staying
at
that
nebulous
sort
of
level,
but
also
having
regard
to
the
whole
range
of
packages
and
services
around,
and
we
we
know
that
that
we
get
the
accommodation
from
the
ministry.
We
know
that
we
still
in
spite
of
having
very
low
numbers.
F
We
are
still
get
getting
funding
for
really
innovative
Services,
because
they
know
that
our
preventative
but
highly
reactive
service
response
works
and
that's
why
we're
still
getting
the
support
So.
How
we
capture
that,
while
still
keeping
ourselves
on
our
toes,
is,
is
really
really
important,
so
yeah.
Thank
you.
E
Oh,
thank
you
Kate
right.
Let's
move
on
to
section
four
any
questions
or
comments
on
section.
Four,
no
I
will
have
one
in
that
case,
section
4.3.
The
corporate
council
plan
scorecard
indicators
I'd
be
interested
to
know
the
portfolio
holder's
views
in
tightening
some
of
these
up.
So,
for
example,
the
second
one
no
homeless
family
were
children
to
occupy
B
and
B
for
longer
than
six
weeks,
and
could
we
strengthen
that
to
say
and
if
they
are,
if,
if
for
any
homeless,
family
occupying
a
BNB
that
should
be
within
the
borough?
E
We've
already
spoken
about
the
zero
adding
in
the
the
zero
rough
sleeping
targets.
That's
encouraging
to
see.
So.
The
third
point
was
around
the
300
edition
of
affordable
homes
deliver
per
annum,
which,
when
you
think
we've
got
over
4
000
people
on
the
housing
register
doesn't
really
feel
like
it's
going
to
touch
the
side.
So
what
can
we
do
about
strengthening
those
targets
to
make
sure
that
they
are
helping
those
most
in
need
in
Opera.
C
Foreign
thank
you
chair,
so,
on
the
second
bullet
point
known
homeless,
family
with
children.
It's
worth
noting
that's
a
statutory
provision.
C
C
On
the
second
point
he
raises
about
affordable
housing,
delivery.
I
think
we
have
got
a
good
record
actually
in
this
Borough
Council
on
affordable
housing
delivery,
we
are
delivering
more
affordable
homes
than
any
other
District
across
Hampshire,
which
I
think
is
very
positive,
but
obviously
we
want
to
go
further.
You
know
we
want
to
go
further
on
affordable
housing
delivery,
and
that
is
a
the
target
from
our
adopted
local
plan.
C
E
Whilst
it's
true
that,
as
has
been
pointed
out
here
over
the
last
two
years,
we've
beaten
it
actually
last
year,
according
to
the
AMR,
we
felt
short
so
I
think
you
know.
We've
set
this
target,
we've
not
reached
it
in
in
the
past
12
months.
So
we
just
need
to
be
cognizant
of
that
as
well,
but
it'd
be
interesting
to
see
why
we
can't
make
the
the
BNB
Criterion
stronger.
C
Thank
you,
chair
just
on
your
affordable
housing
points,
I
think
it's
worth
saying
that
affordable
housing
delivery
is
a
percentage
of
homes
built,
and
so
you
know
the
fewer
homes
that
are
built.
The
viewer
homes
that
are
permitted
the
fewer
homes
that
are
brought
forward,
the
fewer
affordable
homes
are
delivered.
C
What
we
can
do
as
a
boring
Council.
What
we're
really
committed
to
is
making
sure
that
we
get
our
affordable
percentage
in
and
if
we
miss
a
year
on
our
affordable
Target.
That
is
a
disappointment,
but
it's
not
a
reason
to
back
away
from
our
Target
and
our
aspiration
and,
of
course,
you'll
note
that
we
are
in
this
strategy
setting
up
a
greater
emphasis
placed
on
social
rent
and
that's
a
recognition
that
we
want
affordable
homes
to
be
more
affordable.
I
think
Kate
wants
to
pick
up
on
the
BNB
point.
F
Just
just
to
say
in
term
maybe
leave
this
as
a
suggestion
to
the
portfolio
holder,
perhaps
that
to
leave
the
statutory
Target
on
six
weeks
intact,
but
to
look
at
the
wording
of
maintaining
minimum
levels
of
minimum
levels
of
b
b
usage
caveating
with
what
I
mentioned
earlier
about
the
needing
to
make
the
service,
responsive
and
and
minimizing
at
all
opportunities,
or
something
like
that
around
that
every
effort
is
made.
We
can
never,
we
can
never
say,
never
can
we,
but
we
we
can
reflect
that.
F
That
is,
that
is
the
aim
and
the
target
of
the
service
delivery
to
keep
families
if
they
have
to
go
into
bed
and
breakfast
to
keep
them
within
the
area
and
can
I
just
add
something
of
to
help
in
in
relation
to
the
affordable
housing
delivery
which
which
did
crop
up
at
scrutiny.
So
I
think
it
is
important
to
keep
the
consistency
here.
F
The
AMR
reported
a
shortfall
of
11
units,
the
numbers
of
completions
that
we
use
for
our
housing
strategy
because
quarter
four
and
quarter
one
of
the
next
year
tends
to
reflect
different
slippages
they're,
actually
measuring
different
things.
So
it
may
be
a
pedantic
point
from
the
officer,
but
but
actually
the
affordable
housing
Target,
as
reported
to
us
in
terms
of
numbers
of
completions
by
the
RPS,
didn't
slip
below
that
Target
last
year.
E
Thank
you,
Kate
councilor
James.
It's
been
answering
things
right,
any
other
questions
on
section
four
Council
cubic
Council,
McCormick.
D
Yes,
I
think
the
chair
makes
a
very
good
point
with
regards
to
the
scorecards
and
I
was
wondering
whether
members
we
would
like
to
put
forward
a
motion
from
this
committee
suggesting
that,
on
top
of
the
statutory
undertakings,
no
homeless
family
with
children
or
pregnant
family
member,
to
occupy
BNB
for
no
longer
than
six
weeks
within
the
borough.
D
So
we
could
add
within
the
bar.
And
would
anyone
like
to
second
that,
as.
E
That's
okay!
It's
been
suggested
to
be
by
officers
that,
if
we
can,
if
we
can
rather
than
putting
this
as
a
formal
motion,
if
we
can
do
a
show
of
hands
to
indicate
our
support
and
the
strength
of
our
support
for
this
particular
idea,.
D
E
D
This
committee
recommends
that
the
the
cabinet
member
considers
amending
the
corporate
council
plan
scorecard
indicator.
Second
bullet
point
no
homeless
family
with
children
or
pregnant
family
member
to
occupy
B
and
B
for
longer
than
six
weeks
and
undertakes
within
the
borough
than
just
within
the
bar.
At
the
end,
keep
it
simple
thank.
E
F
Just
a
practical
point
that
that
maybe
a
caveat
where
it's,
unless
it's
not
safe
to
do
so,
because
some
cases
will
require
replacement
out
of
borough.
E
D
If
I
could
just
follow
up
on
your
other
very
good
point,
which
I
wasn't
happy
with
the
answer
from
the
cabinet
member,
it
was
in
relation
to
the
300
additional,
affordable
homes,
and
the
suggestion
from
the
cabinet
member
was
that
we
that
it's
beyond
our
areas
of
competence
to
affect
and
impact
that
number
and
I
just
would
like
it.
On
the
record
that
if
the
cabinet
was
so
minded
and
the
council
was
so
minded,
we
could.
We
could
actively
encourage
Council
house
to
be
built
on
Council
owned
land.
So
it
is
a.
D
It
is
a
conscious
political
decision
to
be
dictated
to
by
economic
forces
and
affordable
housing
ratios
when
we
could
make
a
decision
and
we
could
actually
Undertake
and
commit
to
build
Council
houses
and
wouldn't
have
to
be
governed
by
forces.
E
C
Of
course,
I
was
just
going
to
reflect
that
there's
a
separate
and
distinct
process
ongoing
following
that
motion,
Past
full
Council
in
relation
to
the
proposal
for
Research
into
Council
house
building
as
a
potential
option,
I
think
members
will
have
seen
in
their
work
program
near
the
end
of
their
packets,
that
this
is
actually
in
process.
I
believe
paper
on
Research
will
be
coming
before
you
in
July
and
I'm
sure.
That's
the
conversation
that
we
can
pick
up
at
that
time.
So
I
won't
detain
the
committee
any
longer.
On
that
point,.
J
E
E
H
Again
in
relation
to
housing,
choice,
I
just
think
the
comment
in
relation
to
the
common.
Why
do
we
do
and
what?
What
and
what?
And
what
to
do
this
I
just
think
it's
I
mean
I
think
that
we
need
to
be
better
than
this
I
think
there's
in
relation
to
what
we're
offering
and
what
we're
doing,
and
we
need
to
explore
more
options
like
I,
say
in
relation
to
and
I'll
go
back
to
the
flats
that
we're
building
the
lack
of
Bungalows
that
we're
doing
so
in
relation
to
the
housing
mix
policy.
H
I
would
like
us
to
look
at
that
as
a
council
speaking
to
Vivid
this
week,
they're
saying
they're
constrained
by
that
policy,
and
so
I
would
like
us
to
explore
what
we're
building
and
what
we're
not
building
and
examine
that
in
relation
to
the
local
plan.
H
It
says
in
relation
to
places
and
environments
that
people
are
living,
people
are
living
in
places
that
they
don't
want
to
live.
The
council
plan
in
section
one
of
this
report
said
that
you
know
people
had
to
be
happy.
I,
think
the
words
were
happy
a
place
where
people
can
be
live.
Happily,
well,
there's
lots
of
people
in
my
world
that
are
living
in
places
where
they're
not
happy,
so
we're
failing
them.
I
just
would
like
us
to
look
again
at
this
and
I
just
think.
H
We
need
to
be
much
more
ambitious
and
in
relation
to
the
bit
on
enforcement
and
and
no
sort
of
a
bit
on
disabled
adaptions,
we
talk
about
disability
and
and
people
suffering
long
term
in
Illness,
but
we
don't
talk
about
aging
I,
think
people
who
age
should
be
able
to
stay
in
their
own
properties
and
have
them
adapted
I
have
gained
examples
in
my
own
world
where
people
had
to
move
because
it
didn't
suit
them
their
home,
but
really
they
were
very
unhappy
now,
where
they're
living
in
a
flat
and
it's
not
what
they
want
to
be
living
in,
and
so
we
need
to
look
at
adaptions
in
relation
to
aging.
E
C
Yes,
just
to
make
sure
I
captured
everything
sure,
no
just
just
to
note
that
I
think
the
important
points
that
are
raised
with
regard
to
provision
of
Bungalows
and
whether
people
have
the
choice
of
properties
to
live
in
that
they
wish
and
disabled
adaption
I
think
are
matters
for
our
local
Plan
update,
discussion
and
I
know
that
that's
a
matter
that
councilor
James
has
engaged
with
in
detail
and
I'd
encourage
you
to
bring
those
issues
back
to
that
forum.
E
H
I'll
just
point
out
the
73
satisfaction
amongst
Housing,
Association,
tenants
and
and
I.
Don't
know
how
many
people,
where
you
got
that
I'd
quite
like
to
know
the
where
that
came
from
that
statistic,
but
it's
worrying
I
suppose
I
suppose
in
the
concern.
I
also
like
to
ask
the
question
in
relation
to
the
tenure
it
says
other:
what
is
the
1489?
H
What
does
that
represent,
and
it
talks
here
about
the
register
going
down,
but
in
relation
to
the
the
lettings
policy
that
came
to
scrutiny,
it
was
very
clear
that
a
significant
number
of
people
have
been
removed
from
the
register
so,
and
this
doesn't
make
reference
to
that,
and
so
I
think
it's
important
that
this
committee
is
aware
of
why
the
register
has
gone
down
and
in
relation
to
band
One
on
the
just
over
the
page,
I
I
again
in
the
lettings
policy,
it
referred
to
I
think
it
was
93
I,
think
it
was
of
under
occupiers
in
band
one:
are
they
single
people,
as
in
older
people,
I'd
just
like
to
understand
what
the
profile
of
that
96
93
are
in
that
band
one.
F
A
lot
of
that
was
to
do
with
the
way
that
we
worked
during
covid
in
terms
of
making
sure
that
we
weren't
removing
people
from
the
housing
register
during
that
period
of
time
when
we
say
removing
people
from
the
housing
register
that
that
speaks
to
the
ongoing
review
of
cases.
So
we
picked
up
our
rolling
review
to
ensure
that
people
who
were
on
the
register
were
still
in
need
and
still
wanted
to
remain
on
the
register.
F
So
that's
why
people
may
have
been
taken
off
because
their
housing
circumstances
have
changed
and
we've
maintained
a
role
in
review.
Since
then,
numbers
are
creeping
up
again
slightly
so
that
that
is
what
happens
when
you
don't
do
a
review.
You
then
have
a
a
sort
of
more
wholesale
approach,
because
you
haven't
done
it
for
a
long
time.
It
will
go
down
and
then
it
will
recover
again.
F
D
Yes,
just
one
very
brief
one
to
Kate:
do
we
have
to
meet
them,
help
meet
the
needs
of
housing
and
homeless
for
reading
and,
if
so,
in?
What
is
that
an
obligation
on
our
part,
because
it's
languages
I've
come
across
in
another
Borough
nearby?
E
E
D
For
the
record,
so
I'm
for
so
there's
been
a
commitment
to
reinsert
the
word
eradicate
by
2024.
D
There's
been
an
agreement
by
the
cabinet
member
to
add
south
ham
and
Buckskin
on
the
Regeneration
section
and
you
the
greatest
definition
of
basin
State
West,
and
there
was
a
commitment
tonight
by
the
cabinet
member
that
you
were
only
regenerating
made
place
because
it
wasn't
an
alternative
venue
secured
or
identified,
and
so
therefore,
I
would
quite
like
on
the
targets
for
the
commitment
to
find
a
new
whatever
it
was
before,
to
find
a
new
fit
for
Papa's
emergency
single
homeless
hostel.
F
Only
that
the
ass,
the
the
intention
behind
the
proposed
improvements
to
May
place
will
mean
that
it
is
fit.
N
B
F
And
remains
fit
for
purpose.
Part
of
the
reference
previously
to
the
location
was
the
assumption
that
it
couldn't
be
improved.
The
the
that
building
on
that
site
couldn't
be
improved.
We
have
now
found
that
it
can
be
substantially
so
that
that's
why
there's
been
that
that
shift
I
think
it
would
be
prudent
to
take
a
view
once
we've
exhausted
the
May
Place
Improvement
routes
on
whether
or
not
an
additional
facility
thereafter
is,
it
is
still
required,
but
it
it's.
F
It's
about
continuously
reviewing
the
front
line,
accommodation
offer
to
people
who
are
straight
homeless.
E
E
No,
this
appear
to
be,
in
that
case,
we'll
move
on
to
the
final
bit
the
options
analysis.
So
we've
got
three
options
to
consider
tonight,
whether
we
we
do
nothing
with
the
with
the
strategy,
whether
we
start
a
new
strategy
from
scratch
or
whether
we
update
the
existing
one
I'm,
getting
a
sense
from
from
the
questions
and
comments
that
we've
had
over
the
past
hour
or
so
that
option
three.
So
updating
what
we
currently
have
in
the
light
of
the
conversations
that
we've
had
is
probably
going
to
be
the
preferred
route.
J
I
can
share
just
one
point:
what
we
haven't
discussed
on
on
this
gender
right
and
miss
the
Preamble,
because
there's
actually
a
political
statement
at
the
beginning
of
the
Preamble,
which
I
think
is
inappropriate,
especially
considering
we've
had
a
particular
case
with
Clint
Nelson.
That
was,
you
know
he
was
lucky
to
survive
it.
So
I
I,
don't
think
a
political
thing
about
conservatives.
J
Etc
is
appropriate
for
a
paper
like
this,
because
by
implication
it's
saying
that
the
other
parties
you
know
this
is
a
conservative
thing
that
other
parties
don't
think
about.
We've
had
plenty
of
cross-party
suggestions
tonight,
so
I've
moved
to
strike
the
first
sentence
in
half
the
second
sentence
and
as
far
as
made
great
progress
and
insert
in
front
of
made
great
progress,
this
Council
and
its
Partners
have
made
great
progress
in
our
core
Mission,
because
I
don't
think
it's
appropriate
to
make
a
political
point
on
this.
E
O
It's
the
cabinet
members
forward,
so
it's
it's
the
forward
to
the
paper
from
the
cabinet
member
as
opposed
to
the
bulk
of
the
paper.
So,
depending
on
how
the
committee
structure
it,
you
could
take
that
recommendation
and
pass
that
forward
in
terms
of
not
agreeing
to
that
section
and
then
still,
if
you
wish
to.
As
the
committee
endorse
the
rest
of
the
the
report,
it's
entirely
up
to
you
how
you
want
to
structure
that,
as
the
committee.
E
G
I
didn't
have
my
hand
up,
but
I'll
just
say
overall
I've
been
wearing
my
partisan
hat
I
mean
this
Council
have
done
very
well
on
homelessness.
Over
the
last
three
or
four
years,
we've
got
a
lot
of
money
from
the
government
during
covid,
which
really
has
sort
of
eradicated.
Homelessness
within
a
rough
sleeping.
I
should
say
we're
in
this
we're
in
this
Borough
and
it's
up
to
us
to
sustain
that
in
coming
years,
I
mean
the
statistics
that
came
out
this
week.
There's
been
a
74
increase
since
2010.
G
So
so,
when
you
go
to
have
a
sizable
towns
like
Winchester,
it's
homeless,
people
on
the
streets
are
much
more
prevalent,
aren't
they
I
mean
I
was
in
Plymouth
two
weeks
ago,
and
it
was
like
horrendous,
so
give
credit
where
it's
due,
but
frankly,
obviously
I'm
the
cabinet
member
for
their
efforts.
Thank
you.
E
Okay,
in
that
case,
I'm,
going
to
propose
that
we
accept
we
go
for
option
three
with
the
the
forward
unamended
as
it
currently
stands.
E
If
we
can
do
a
show
of
hands
on
that
and
if
that
fails
and
we'll
look
at
a
potentially
changing
that,
so
all
in
favor
of
option
three
so
incorporating
like
touch
review
priorities
within
a
strategy
in
the
light
of
the
discussions
that
we've
had
this
evening,
who
show
of
hands
please
in
favor,
okay,
so
that's
one
two,
three,
four
five,
six!
E
E
E
P
Thank
you
chair
good
evening
committee,
as
some
of
you
may
remember,
the
last
year
around
this
time,
councilor
Jenny
walks
and
I
proposed
and
seconded
a
motion
at
the
full
Council
to
recognize
the
difficulties
experienced
by
some
of
the
local
communities
like
the
residents
moving
into
the
new
build,
how
new
housing
developments
where
amenities
and
Open
Spaces
are
not
well
maintained
by
the
the
developers
until
the
time
of
the
adoption
by
the
Borough,
Council
or
or
the
the
management
agent
or
or
or
the
highways
Authority.
P
So
that
was
unanimously
agreed
by
the
members
following
on
that
council's
Green,
Space
Management
maintenance
and
adoption
process
has
been
updated
significantly
through
the
the
review
of
adoption
standards
and
strength
than
the
wording
around
and
the
legal
texts
or
agreements.
P
So
so
these
changes
are
considered
appropriate
to
provide
a
mechanism
that
will
ensure
that
space
well
maintained
and
the
adoption
can
be
put
forward
in
the
standard,
that's
expected
by
the
Borough
Council
or
the
management
agent
or
or
the
the
the
the
highways
authority
to
show
the
improvements
of
the
approach.
P
This
report
provides
councilors
with
some
sort
of
a
background
with
the
previous
legal
agreements,
as
well
as
what
is
currently
being
put
forward
and
in
order
to
consider
the
position
in
terms
of
the
the
old
housing
developments,
a
full
review
of
each
site
is
required,
which
has
been
done
by
the
team,
and
we've
got
around
sort
of
100
sites
that
are
in
sort
of
a
various
stages
of
this
transfer
process,
and
thanks
for
the
task
and
finish
group
that
had
done
a
lot
of
work
around
this.
The
last.
B
P
I
understand
some
of
the
post
within
the
team
who
are
working
on
this
particular
piece
of
work
are
vacant
at
the
moment,
and
the
recruitment
process
are
in
progress
in
order
to
fill
those
positions
and-
and
the
consideration
outlined
in
this
report
are
relevant
to
our
council's
the
council
plan
priorities,
including
protecting
and
enhancing
the
environment
and
strengthening
communities.
P
I
appreciate
there
are
still
work
need
to
be
done
and
we're
still
working
around
some
of
the
the
old
existing
the
properties
and
the
your
contribution
and
recommendation
or
or
the
views
that
Express
here
today
can
contribute
towards
towards
the
delivery
of
the
the
work
or
the
way
forward.
For
this,
the
piece
of
work.
E
Thank
you
councilor.
So,
as
you
set
out
within
the
agenda
papers,
the
growing
concern
with
regard
to
Green
Space
standards
prior
to
adoption
by
the
council
or
management
company
is
noted.
It's
acknowledged
that
some
historic
obligations
and
subsequent
enforcement
have
been
inadequate
or
protracted.
E
Officers
in
the
natural
environment,
team,
legal
team
and
planning
teams
have
undertaken
or
in
the
process
of
working
to
correct,
identified,
site-specific
issues,
including
through
additional
temporary
resources
in
the
natural
environment
team,
but
also
ensure
that
future
issues
do
not
occur
by
ensuring
that
legal
Agreements
are
appropriate
for
future
developments
in
the
current
planning
environment
following
negotiation.
Legal
Agreements
are
the
mechanism
for
enforcing
open
space
delivery
and
standards,
as
can
be
seen
within
the
appendices
to
the
agenda.
E
Clauses
have
developed
significantly
since
the
early
2000s
and
have
developed
again
more
recently
in
appendix
3
to
reflect
the
current
physical
and
policy
environment.
The
main
reason
changes
are
set
out
at
section
4.2
in
your
report
and
include
requiring
an
upfront
open
space
plan,
including
enforceable
backstop
triggers
for
delivery
and
most
effectively,
in
my
view,
a
formal
notice
procedure,
which
requires
the
completion
of
identified
remedial
Works
season
dependent
by
a
developer
following
the
council
issuing
a
notice
which
is
set
out
at
0.1.17
at
appendix
3
on
page
68..
E
This
is
in
addition
to
the
officer
green
infrastructure
working
group
that
exists,
I.
Think
it's
also
worth
noting
as
a
point
of
interest,
that
in
respect
of
sustainable
Urban,
Drainage
Systems,
which
are
often
within
such
spaces,
in
January
this
year,
the
government
published
a
review
of
Suds,
which
included,
making
County
Council
locally
flood
authorities
responsible
as
Suds
approval
bodies
to
regulate
Suds
and
check
compliance
with
sub
schemes
with
government.
Acknowledging
the
the
current
unregulated
system
is
not
appropriate,
which
is
welcome.
E
Q
Thanks
very
much
so
I'm
addressing
you
obviously,
on
this
evening's
agenda
item
entitled
maintaining
immunities
and
green
spaces
as
the
papers
set
out.
This
follows
unanimous
adoption
at
the
January
2022
council
meeting
of
the
motion
is
set
out
in
your
papers,
which
I
proposed
and
a
counselor
Ganesh
seconded
at
that
meeting
for
any
committee
members
who
were
not
present
at
the
council
meeting.
The
level
of
support
for
this
motion
reflected
the
long-standing
and
deep
frustration,
Ward
councilors
from
all
parties
and
Wards
feel
about
this
issue.
Q
For
many
years
developers
have
been
promising
us
great
Community
spaces
and
assets
as
part
of
beautiful
housing
developments,
and
yet
our
residents
have
had
put
up
with
broken
lights,
muddy
paths
and
uneven
Pavements
and
a
myriad
of
substandard
community
facilities
until
they
are
adopted.
The
paper
presented
to
eph
this
evening
suggests
that
going
forward.
This
is
no
longer
a
problem.
It's
just
about
clearing
up
the
backlog
from
previous
less
prescriptive
legal
agreements.
But
let's
not
underestimate
that
backlog.
Q
The
paper
tells
us
delays
are
due
to
staff
vacancies
and
that
there
are
over
a
hundred
sites
to
deal
with
I,
don't
find
this
reassuring.
So
it's
a
very
serious
issue.
The
two
examples
I
highlighted
over
a
year
ago
at
the
January
2022
meeting,
still
remain
outstanding.
Petty's
cop's
path
remains
muddy,
a
muddy
Mass
it's
been
for
years
and
while
last
month
excess
vegetation
was
trimmed
back
behind,
remember
its
Gardens.
The
work
took
18
months
to
be
actioned
and
the
land
remains
unadopted,
and
these
are
not
the
only
examples.
Q
So
our
residents
Reserve,
better
and
I
urge
the
committee
to
request
a
greater
focus
on
clearing
up
the
backlog
from
these
100
sites.
I
accept
that
it
is
challenging
to
attract
and
retain
experienced
staff
in
this
area
of
expertise,
but
that
is
not
in
its
self-sufficient
reason
to
shrug
and
accept
it.
If
something
is
a
genuine
priority,
it
can
and
should
be
resolved.
Q
Looking
forward.
I
welcome
the
action
set
out
in
section
4.2
and
appendix
3
provides
a
degree
of
assurance
and
I'm
a
thank
Greg
for
explaining
that
and
the
way
the
paper's
been
set
out.
Q
But
I
I
would
like
a
little
more
Assurance,
please
Greg,
because
when
I
read
it
I
did
not
see
the
remedy
in
these
papers
for
the
continued
maintenance
of
green
spaces
and
Community
assets
between
their
first
being
created
and
the
time
they're
prepared
for
adoption
in
in
your
Preamble
that
you
implied
that
you
could
bring
in
a
remedy
if
things
weren't
up
to
standard.
But
when
I
read
it
I
didn't
read
it
that
way.
I
saw
the
remedy
being
when
it
was
first
offered
for
adoption.
Q
You
had
a
period
when
you
could
ask
for
something
to
be
remedied
before
there
was
a
final
adoption,
so
yeah
so
I
think
that
would
because
that's
the
core
of
the
issue
that's
being
raised
here,
because
the
motion
said
to
ensure
infrastructure.
Immunity
is
in
open,
green
spaces
within
housing.
Developments
are
maintained
by
developers
to
the
Quality
specification
and
standards
set
out
in
planning
contracts
from
the
time
the
infrastructure,
immunities
and
green
spaces
are
created
to
the
point
of
adoption,
so
I
I
would
I'm
seeking
that
that
really
is
what's
in
these
papers.
Q
That's
the
fundamental
issue
for
many
of
our
problems
that
our
residents
are
experiencing.
Thank
you.
E
Thank
you
very
much
any
questions
of
the
visiting
speaker
whilst
she's
here
cancer
Cuban.
D
Council
folks,
thank
you
very
much.
I
think
the
points
that
you've
made
it
extremely
well
made
I
think
your
mission
was
excellent.
I
I
think
it's
great
that
we've
got
a
paper
here,
but
obviously
you
have
Collective
responsibility
as
a
Cabinet
member.
D
So
whilst
it's
very
useful
to
hear
your
concerns-
and
we
all
have
very
severe
concerns-
because
we
all
have
similar
problems-
and
we
have
very
similar
problems
with
regards
to
developers
that
flat
pack,
so
they
bankrupt
themselves-
put
the
assets
into
another
account
and
then
we
can't
chase
the
original
Builder.
So
I
just
wondered
what
you
could
tell
us
is
your:
are
you
going
to
Advocate
and
ensure
what
happens
in
your
capacities
as
a
Cabinet
member
with
Collective
responsibility.
Q
Thank
you,
cancer
Cubit.
Whilst
we
have
a
cabinet
with
Collective
responsibility.
Nevertheless,
there
is,
there
are
other
issues
required
to
make
this
work
and
that's
about
priorities
for
recruitment.
It's
priorities
around
staff.
So,
whilst
we
can
set
policy,
we
can't
actually
make
things
happen
in
that
sense.
So,
let's
be
honest
about
this,
this
is
about
the
labor
market.
This
is
about
how
we,
as
as
a
council,
attract
the
right
staff.
So,
yes,
I,
am
doing
everything
I
can
to
make
this
Council
the
most
attractive,
one
to
work
for
and
I.
Q
Think
we've
made
great
strides
in
that
I
think
the
LGA
report
shows
that
we've
made
great
strides,
but
we
still
need
to
attract
people
that
will
take
on
this
kind
of
work.
So
it's
important
that
we
focus
on
that
and
not
get
distracted,
I
think
there's
so
many
priorities
aren't
there
in
every
Council
homes
and
homelessness
is
it
was
a
priority
we
were
talking
about
just
now,
they're
all
really
important
things,
but
what
I
want
to
ensure
is
that
we
don't
take
our
our
eye
off
the
ball
on
this
one.
E
Thank
you
both
for
that.
Okay,
right,
I,
think
questions
now
and
comments
to
the
portfolio
holder.
E
What
we'll
do
bear
with
me
one
second
we'll
take
the
paper
I
think
in
its
entirety,
because
it
doesn't
really
make
that
much
sense
to
break
it
up
into
sections,
given
it's
it's
quite
short
and
everything
works
together,
so
cancer
qubit
and
then
counselor
James.
Please.
E
D
Thank
you
Mr
chair.
No,
so
just
to
repeat,
thank
you
very
much
for
bringing
this
paper
to
us.
Thank
you
very
much
for
undertaking
to
go
forward
with
the
commitment
that
we
at
Council
gave
to
both
you,
the
secondary
and
the
Mover
of
this
excellent
motion.
We
all
know:
we've
all
got
problems.
D
D
I
was
explicitly
told
that
we
could,
that
we
owned
it
and
that
it
couldn't
be
sold
and
anywhere
long,
as
short
of
it
is
in
the
end,
my
poor
residence
ended
up
having
to
spend
about
35
000
pounds
because
of
the
bad
advice
that
I
was
given,
so
I'm
very
glad
to
hear
that
historic
issues
are
being
undertaken
and
I
very
glad
to
hear
that
the
cabinet
member
is
going
to
make
sure
that
these
issues
are
resolved.
D
What
I
would
like
to
know
is
what
are
we
going
to
do
in
relation
to
developers
who
who
flat
pack
and
and
then
we
have
no
one
to
go
after
if
they
don't
adhere
to
the
undertakings
that
they've
made
in
their
in
in
their
in
in
their
planning
application
for
the
provision
of
open
space
and
the
and
and
the
looking
and
making
it
thereafter?
Because
when
you
look
at
the
legal
documentation,
I
mean
well,
you
know
legal
documentations
are
great,
but
if
the
company
doesn't
exist
anymore,
what
redress
do
we
have.
P
Thank
you,
councilor
cubid
and
I'm,
not
a
technical
expert,
to
advise
you
on
that.
The
situation
with,
but
in
terms
of
the
current
developer,
not
complying
with
the
obligations
and
leaving
the
site
is
something
that
probably
looked
in
through
this.
P
The
current
legal
agreement
by
strengthening
some
of
the
wording,
which
is
to
make
the
contribution
in
advance
that
you
probably
may
have
picked
it
up
on
the
on
the
on
the
legal
wordings-
and
this
is
not
just
that
the
highlighting
the
issue
as
sort
of
an
overall
will
bring
some
sort
of
a
recognition
among
the
developers
that
the
the
the
authority
is
Keen
on
getting
or
making
sure
that
the
all
the
amenities
and
the
the
public
status
are
maintained,
not
just
as
when
it's
handed
over
or
adopted,
but
during
the
build
during
the
build
and
while
it's
being
built
all
the
way
to
the
adoption.
P
E
Yes,
I
can
certainly
add
to
that.
So,
firstly,
just
in
terms
of
the
question
around
the
ownership,
and
obviously
this
paper
is
looking
at
the
maintenance
of
open
space
rather
than
the
ownership
question,
which
is
probably
a
different
paper
I'm.
In
particular,
you
mentioned
what
happens
if
companies
go
into
receivership,
that
obviously
tends
to
happen
with
some
of
the
smaller
companies,
the
arrangement
that
you
talked
about
and
yes,
I'm,
aware
that
it
does
happen
and
the
the
English
land
ownership
and
business
setup
does
allow
for
that.
E
So
it
may
be
something
that
it's
probably
Beyond,
The
Escape
of
the
planning
department
is
such
as,
but
maybe
it's
something
that
could
be
raised
with
local
MPS
in
terms
of
whether
there
is
anything
that
could
be
done
to
the
way
that
companies
are
able
to
act,
it
doesn't
it.
In
my
experience,
it
tends
to
happen
with
the
smaller
companies
rather
than
the
larger
companies,
but
the
smaller
companies
tend
to
do
the
smaller
schemes,
which
tend
to
be
at
the
heart
of
some
of
the
communities.
E
What
could
be
looked
at
is
obviously
the
terms
of
the
agreement.
There
are
Surety
bonds
that
are
included
in
legal
agreements
in
certain
instances.
E
They
aren't
necessarily
the
whole
value
of
the
whole
legal
agreement,
because
that
would
be
several
million,
but
it
would
allow
for
that
to
be
drawn
against
and
monies
taken
to
undertake
remedial
works
in
the
event
that
a
company
ceased
to
exist
and,
as
I
said,
that
doesn't
tend
to
happen
or
be
necessary
for
larger
companies
that
are
multi-million
pound
companies
and
don't
set
up
a
similar
type
of
parent
company
and
Child
Company
relationship.
E
D
It's
a
quick
one,
a
couple
of
my
residents
in
a
parish.
Thank
you
for
that
answer
and
I
would
like
it
to
be
looked
into
because
you'll
be
aware
of
some
specific
examples
that
have
happened
very
recently
in
my
ward,
which
of
course
great
angst
and
in
the
next
door,
Borough
by
one
specific
company,
that's
moved
all
their
assets
into
another
company
and
then
they've
bankrupted
their
company,
and
now
nobody
has
got
any
redress
to
them
and
is
having
very
severe
ramifications
to
the
community.
The
sewage
hasn't
been
sorted
out.
D
Nothing
can
be
sorted
out,
so
that's
like,
but
also
the
open
space
hasn't
been
met.
So
it's
it's
a
combination,
hence
the
relevance
of
the
of
of
of
the
question.
A
couple
of
my
Parish
councilors
in
one
of
my
parishes
is
currently
doing
an
audit
of
Open
Spaces
because
they're
so
concerned
because
they
had
they
got
very
badly
burnt
with
Saxon
way
and
broadhurst
Grove.
D
E
If
I
could
just
pick
that
up,
obviously
residents
are
able
to
raise
complaints
through
the
compliance
enforcement
team
and
they'll
be
looked
at
by
the
green
spaces
team
as
well.
The
public
open
space
officer
when
in
post
as
to
whether
there's
compliance
with
any
legal
agreement
normally,
obviously,
if
there
are
any
complaints
that
officers
are
aware
of
them
or
if
there
is
a
scheme,
that's
one
of
the
100.
The
novices
are
aware
of
them
and
are
working
through
them
in
any
event.
E
But
yeah
residents
are
obviously
encouraged
to
speak
with
compliance
enforcement
team
or
the
natural
environment
team.
If
there's
a
particular
site
that
they've
got
queries
on
and
we
can
advise
where
that
is,
but
that's
specifically
regard
to
the
maintenance
of
land
in
terms
of
land
ownership,
that's
not
a
material
planning
consideration
and
isn't.
Obviously
the
subject
of
this
paper.
I
understand
that's
a
very
different
issue.
That's
been
a
significant
issue
for
your
residents
and
you
were
advised
on
that
I
think
at
that
time
with
that,
but
from
legal
officers.
E
H
You
I
suppose
picking
up
on
the
point
of
recruitment.
What
I'm
concerned
about
is
obviously
the
shortage
of
Staff
in
this
whole
area
of
work
and
the
the
impact.
If
we
have
this
100
cases,
you
know
the
amount
of
time
I'm
not
saying
we
should,
but
should
we
look
at
getting
a
consultant
into
to
do
this
piece
of
work
or
not
a
consultant,
another
member
of
staff
to
come
in
and
do
this
piece
of
work
that
we
to
do
the
backlog?
Surely
that
would
be
advisable
at
this
stage.
H
I
also
like
to
pick
up
on
the
point
that
I'm
I'm
always
chasing
so
at
the
moment,
I'm
chasing
where
we
are
in
relation
to
a
site,
a
big
site
in
our
world
that
is
due
to
be
adopted
and
then
I'm,
you
know
and
I
have
been
chasing.
H
Obviously
there
isn't
the
staff
there
they've
come
back
to
me
this
week,
but
they're
struggling,
but
what
I
think
should
happen
as
a
counselor
is
we
should
be
told
before
a
site
is
adopted
and
at
the
moment
that
doesn't
happen
and
and
I
really
feel
that
before
that
happens,
we
need
to
be
sure
that
we
as
counselors
are
happy
with
it.
So
before
it
gets
signed
off.
We
have
an
opportunity
to
say
no,
this
tree
we're
not
happy
with
this
or
this
bush
or
you
know
so.
H
I
would
really
urge
that
as
counselors,
we
can
do
that.
I
have
got
contact
with
the
councilors.
The
officers
at
the
moment
but
like
I,
say
I,
know
that
they're
being
pulled
from
somewhere
else
to
do
this
piece
of
work
and
they're
under
enormous
pressure.
It's
just
what
are
we
going
to
do
and
I
know,
there's
a
significant
issue
in
relation
to
their
Department
as
well
in
relation
to
this
whole
area
of
work,
so
there
is
a
shortfall
so
in
relation
to
the
cabinet
member
who's
proposing
this.
H
Maybe
the
answer
is
that
we
actually
put
some
money
in
to
employ
some
interim
staff
to
come
in
and
do
this
piece
of
work
and
I'd
urge
her
to
actually
suggest
that
to
the
leader
of
the
council
that
this
happens
and
to
the
chief
executive,
but
also
that
we
is
in
going
forward
how
the
members
actually
as
part
of
this
process
as
with
106
in
the
beginning.
What
is
our
processing
sign
off?
H
P
Thank
you,
councilor
James,
picking
up
on
the
the
vacant
horses
posts
on
Open,
Spaces
officer,
Green,
Space
officer
and
infrastructure
monitoring
officer.
Those
three
are
awaken
at
the
moment.
We've
got,
the
resources
are
available,
funding's
available
and
it's
been
advertised
and
the
recruitment
process
had
been
going
on
at
the
moment,
but
you're
suggesting
around
using
a
consultant
on
a
particular
piece
of
work.
P
That's
something
probably
the
heads
of
service
and
we
can
have
the
conversation
if
that
is
something
can
be
looked
into
on
a
on
a
sort
of
a
temporary
basis
to
bring
up
to
the
speed
in
terms
of
bringing
those
100
cases
back
into
the
speed.
But
the
the
resources
is
not
an
issue.
P
We've
got
those
ftes
in
place
and
the
recruitment
process
has
been
going
on
and
it's
just
a
matter
of
recruiting
those
offices
in
place
and
getting
back
to
a
result
is
100
cases
and
going
back
to
the
the
adoption
point
where
counselors
can
have
a
say.
It's
a
it's.
A
very
good
suggestion
that
we
have
been
practicing
in
our
wood
councilor
bound
councilor
Mcenroe
and
myself.
P
We
usually
work
with
officers
work
with
the
developers
as
and
when
these
Open
Spaces
or
any
Ministries
are
handed,
and
we
usually
have
an
inspection
around
the
same
time
as
same
time
as
the
offices
meet
with
the
developer.
So
it's
a
matter
of
us
putting
ourselves
forward
and
ask
the
officers
and
ask
developers
and
where
we
are
with
those
and
engaging
at
that
point,
but
that's
something
definitely.
It
is
very
good
practice
that
can
be
really
useful
at
the
point
of
adoption.
E
E
One
of
those
posts
is
actually
an
additional
temporary
post
to,
in
particular,
to
pick
up
on
this
issue
to
work
through
those
cases,
but
if
I
could
just
obviously
add
that
those
100
cases
aren't
all
backlog
cases,
some
of
the
cases
that
would
have
been
on
hand
anyway
and
the
final
Point
here,
just
in
respect
of
being
notified
when
an
area
of
open
space
is
going
to
be
adopted,
I
think
that's
a
really
sensible
point.
H
Quick,
how
do
we
formalize
that
then?
And
it's
a
good
point,
but
you
know
how
do
we
make
that
a
part
of
the
structure
that
we
do
because
I
I
chase
it
and
I
know
that
I'm
on
it?
But
if
I
miss
one
or
you
know
it
should
be
that
it's
part
of
the
the
business
of
this
Council
that
before
something
is
signed
off
that
the
councilors
are
asked.
Are
they
happy
because
maybe
not
all
counselors
are
on
top
of
their
brief,
and
so
it
may
get
missed.
H
Could
we
do
that
then
tonight
that
we
make
that
recommendation?
Is
the
committee
happy
to
make
that
recommendation
tonight.
P
Thank
you
chair.
Thank
you.
Councilor
James,
I
think
this
that's
a
very
good
suggestion
because
it
works
very
well
within
our
wood
and
it's
not
a
very
straightforward,
as
we
would
like
to
see
it
because
the
keeping
developers
chasing
and
trying
to
find
out
when
these
amenities
or
Open
Spaces
are
ready.
P
It's
not
an
easy
job
that
we
have
been
back
and
forth
for
months
to
find
or
get
to
that
point,
but
if
you
would
like
the
officers
to
formalize
the
process
in
some
way,
for
example,
when
the
officers
do
their
examination
process
to
match
with
the
master
plan,
there
can
be
something
I
can
definitely
put
forward
to
the
heads
of
service
and
see
if
that
can
be
formalized
as
part
of
the
process
of
adoption.
P
E
You
good
thank
you,
councilor
Ganesh,
a
question
from
me
from
reading
this
paper,
there's
a
presumption
that
the
the
new
Clause
agreement,
the
one
in
appendix
3,
has
fixed
a
lot
of
the
issues.
I'll
just
be
interested
to
know.
Has
it
fixed
all
of
the
issues?
Are
there
still
some
issues
based
on
the
on
the
new
contract?
E
That
will
obviously
remain
under
review
and
in
the
conclusion,
although
it's
under
heading
12,
it's
actually
11.3
I,
think
it
is
11.3
that
obviously
it
will
remain
under
review
to
ensure
that
it
is
a
successful
Clause.
My
view
on
it
is
that
it's
much
improved,
certainly
from
the
early
2000s,
but
then
much
improved
from
2012
as
well,
but
yeah
11.3,
it'll,
be
section.
E
106
agreement
should
be
monitored
by
officers
and
natural
environment
team
and
then
reported
to
the
head
of
environment
and
Community
Services
to
consider
if
the
new
procedures
and
obligations
are
working
appropriately.
Sorry
just
follow
up.
Do
you
have
any
stats
to
to
sort
of
demonstrate
that
it's
working
effectively?
Not
yet
because
they're
working
through
the
process?
Obviously
they
relate
to
current
planning
applications
and
those
current
planning
applications.
I
mean
what
you
have
in
the
appendices
is
examples
from
particular
developments
lifted
and
they'll
be
working
their
way
through
the
process.
E
Agreements
for
larger
sites,
10,
which
these
are
taken
from
10
to
be
at
outline
stage,
and
then
you
have
to
work
through
the
outline
stage.
Reserve
matters
conditions
so
it'll
be
some
time
until
they
are
then
constructed
and
the
construction
will
be
over
potentially
a
number
of
years
with
the
open
space
coming
along
on
a
particular
point.
So
it's
very
much
a
monitoring
on
a
site
by
site
basis
with
the
assistance
of
members
and
residents.
In
addition
to
those
posts
that
we're
recruiting
to
thank
you,
Greg
cancer,
Ganesh.
P
P
So
if
there's
a
way
to
improve,
like
you've,
recommended
us
to
put
a
formal
process
as
part
of
the
adoption
for
counselors
to
be
part
of
it,
something
similar
to
that,
if
that
can
be
helpful
to
improve
the
the
entire
option
process
or
improve
the
way,
these
amenities
are
maintained
while
being
built
to
adoption,
we're
happy
to
take
those
recommendations,
and
this
is
not
just
the
end
of
the
process.
This
is
just
an
ongoing
Pro
process
and
the
members
are
welcome
to
speak
to
me
or
any
offices
regarding
there.
K
Thank
you,
chair
I'm,
on
page
55
of
your
report.
There,
the
in
the
middle
of
the
page,
it's
really
sort
of
some
Indulgence.
Really
we've
got
the
comment
there.
That's
for
the
developer
to
decide
whether
or
not
a
site
is
offered
for
adoption
or
maintained
by
a
management.
Company.
K
I
haven't
had
the
privilege
of
reading
the
task
and
finished
groups.
Report
I
wasn't
on
the
committee
then,
but
I
will
go
and
have
a
good
look.
However,
if
you
could
tell
me,
is
it
mppf
or
is
it
law
or
something
that
gives
the
developer
this
Choice?
That's
I
have
a
supplementary
then,
on
that
that's
the
first
question.
E
E
Position
that
the
council
can't
distinguish
between
the
two.
K
And
the
supplementary
then
so
we
can't
distinguish
and
clearly
what
is
happening,
we're
all
talking
about
case
examples
where
I
won't
go
into
it
in
detail,
but
a
management
company
is
failing
to
deliver
with
the
developer.
What
it's
supposed
to
do,
but
of
course
your
it's
all
106
agreements
we're
talking
about
here.
So
is
there
anything
we
can
do
as
a
council
to
to
intervene
in
this
particular
instance.
E
I'm
not
sure
whether
the
particular
instance
is
the
one
we
had
an
exchange
on
today
or
whether
it's
another
one
that
we've
met
on
on
site
in
the
past.
That,
at
both
of
those
situations,
were
situations
where
you're
in
the
appendix
too,
rather
than
the
new
appendix
3
scenario
of
the
paper
before
you.
E
If
it's
the
one
today,
then
we
haven't
got
to
the
management
company
position
in
the
situation
rests
very
much
with
the
the
developer,
which
the
new
clause
in
appendix
3
1.17
would
allow
us
to
buy
would
allow
us
to
serve
a
notice
if
that
existed,
but
it
is
with
the
natural
environment
team
leader,
as,
as
you
know,
they
are
aware
of
that
particular
site
and
are
looking
to
pick
it
up
with
the
available
results
that
they
do
have.
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
P
You
chair,
I'd,
like
to
quickly
just
from
The
Experience
within
my
ward
around
when
management
companies
fail
at
the
moment.
It's
it
comes
down
to
Residents
to
deal
with
it,
which
is
very
unfortunate
situation
where
I
have
dealt
with
number
of
occasions
dealing
with
residents,
complaints
where
management
company
fails,
but
the
only
catch
there
is
when
it's
managed
by
the
management
company
it
will.
They
will
be
charging
some
sort
of
a
fee
to
the
freeholds.
P
So
at
that
point
it's
the
residents
will
have
the
rights
to
have
a
say
on
whether
you
complete
the
job,
I'll
pay,
the
fee
or
I
will
not
be
paying
the
fee.
That's
how
it's
been
dealt
so
it's
kind
of
a
a
sort
of
a
pay
and
Service
situation
at
that
point,
but
it's
very
unfortunate
that
we
have
been
dealing
with
in
our
wood
number
of
times
in
the
past.
L
L
And
Council
a
lot
of
James
advocating
for
the
council
to
spend
money
on
a
consultants.net,
counselor
Gavin
James
here
that
he
will
heal
this
on
you
for
that.
For
that
statement,.
H
L
It
was
a
comet
made
in
chest,
councilor
James
I
know,
okay,
so
my
my
question
really
is
where
I'm
backing
up
what
council
of
said
about
where
we
can
be
more
prescriptive
in
in
taking
action
against
this
this
list
of
a
hundred
outstanding
sites
and
also
touching
on
the
the
proposed
mppf
reforms.
I
believe
one
of
the
proposed
questions
was
to
take
into
account
developers
previous
responsible
behaviors.
L
Would
this
be
a
situation
where
hypothetically
we're
thinking
these
are
the
types
of
irresponsible
behaviors
that
we
could
potentially
use
as
a
stick
to
to
provide
some
leverage
against
these
companies?
These
companies,
because
I'm
I'm
in
tobacco
but
Council
again,
I,
think
50
of
my
working
evening
as
a
ward
counselor
is
dealing
with
trying
to
get
these
larger
developers
to
commit
to
their
promises
and
they're
letting
down
our
residents
so
absolutely
I,
I
I'm
I'm,
very
keen
in
being
able
to
hold
their
fit
to
the
fire.
Thank
you.
E
Correct
is
that
one
for
you,
okay,
I
suppose
emerging
policies
is,
and
the
intent
of
those
is
is
useful
to
know.
But
obviously,
at
the
moment
we
can
only
work
within
the
system
that
we've
got,
but
in
the
future,
if
there's
something
that
comes
in
inserts,
that
we
hold
developers
and
and
kind
of
keep
keep
a
score
of
who's
performed
well
and
and
not,
and
obviously
that's
something
we'll
be
able
to
do
in
the
future.
J
Thank
you
chair,
sir
I
thought.
Council
Tomlin
was
gonna,
ask
a
particular
question,
but
I'm
on
the
same
section
there
about
developers
and
management
companies,
and
things
like
that.
So
if
a
developer
decides
that
they
want
to
sell
their
and
then
on
to
a
management
company
and
the
management
company
in
many
cases,
is
charging
ground
rent
to
Residents
and
residents,
don't
have
a
lot
to
show
for
it
after
a
few
years.
J
How
often
are
we
using
the
powers
that
we've
got
under
section
two
and
five
of
the
Town
and
Country
planning
Act
1990.,
where
it
requires
landowners
to
take
steps
to
clean
land
up
when
it's
conditioned
adversely
affects
the
immunity
of
the
area?
And
there
are
numerous
examples
I
can
think
of,
but
in
a
particular
case
in
point
where
we've
got
things
like
walls
retaining
walls
that
are
a
point
of
collapse,
we've
got
them
all
over
the
town
and
there
doesn't
seem
to
be
anything.
That's
been
done
about
it
for
years,
yeah.
E
If
it's
regarding
the
100
connect
on
hand,
cases
then
obviously
working
with
developers
to
try
and
ensure
that
that
space
is
appropriately
maintained
and
working
through
any
legal
agreement
best
for
negotiating
and
working
with
them.
Secondly,
working
through
any
legal
agreements
is
the
course
of
action,
and
if
it
needed
to
move
to
section
two
and
five
on
Tidy
land
notice,
then
obviously
that
is
something
that
could
be
used
and
I'm,
not
aware
that
it
has
been
used
by
the
natural
environment
team,
yet
specifically
for
those
Open
Spaces
on
site.
E
But
we
do
use
two
on
Five
notices
elsewhere,
where
there
are
untidy
sites
within
barrage
tend
to
be
other
businesses
that
are
more
run
down
and
of
closed
or
private
Residential
Properties.
Thank
you
chair.
Does
that
answer
your
question.
Council
McCormick.
J
J
I
can
think
of
all
over
the
borough
where
nothing
seems
to
be
done,
and
residents
get
almost
resigned
to
the
fact
in
many
cases
that
they're
paying
ground
rent
in
some
cases
for
private
companies
they're
just
getting
away
with
doing
nothing.
E
L
E
Thank
you
Greg
did
you
want
to
want
one
very
final
question.
Well,.
J
J
You
know
amenity
land
or
Parkland
or
whatever,
but
there
are
numerous
cases
where
we've
got.
We've
got
I
can
think
of
one
in
winklebury,
for
instance,
where
we've
got
a
piece
of
land,
that's
surrounded
by
retaining
walls
and
they're
cracking
and
nobody's
doing
anything
with
them.
J
I
can
think
of
examples
in
Brighton
Hill,
where
we've
got
walls
that
are
falling
down
where
it's
unsafe,
for
you
know
local
residents
either
you
know
driving
driving
cars
that
should
be
retaining
walls
and
they're
missing,
or
you
know,
paths
where
there's
there's
private
land
and
these
guys
are
paying
the
ground
rent
not
doing
it.
It
just
seems
to
me
that
we've
been
ducking
this
issue
as
a
council
and
we're
ducking
this
issue
now
by
saying:
oh,
it's
not
applicable,
and
it's
not
it's
not
our
responsibility
or
whatever,
and
that
I
find
really
annoying.
J
Because
I
think
you
know
these
things
are
going
to
end
up
coming
to
a
head
and
we'll
be
going
to
have
cases
come
before
DC
as
a
result
of
this,
because
we've
got
numerous
cases
of
neglect
in
the
borough
and
we
don't
seem
to
be
addressing
the
problem.
E
P
Thank
you,
chair,
I,
think,
oh,
it's
a
good
discussion
around
an
important
issue
for
a
lot
of
the
residents
within
the
borough
and
had
some
great
recommendations
in
terms
of
building
up
towards
the
adoption
which
can
be
formalized
after
speaking
to
the
team
and
also
recognize
the
the
vacant
positions
around
the
Green,
Space
officer,
open
space
office
and
the
infrastructure
monitoring
officer
and
within
within
all
our
means.
P
We
as
a
service
trying
everything
to
get
those
filled
and
get
those
100
cases
moving
forward
to
solve
or
bring
to
the
standard
as
it
should
be
before
adoption
within
the
borough
and
I
hope.
We
will
be
picking
up
on
the
points
that
counselor
walks
into
function
and
should
be
able
to
get
back
to
councilor
walks
at
some
point
with
some
of
the
answers.
Thank
you.
E
Thank
you,
Council
Ganesh,
thank
you,
Greg
I
should
also
say
I've
got
to
say
thank
you
to
councilor,
Carr
and
Kate
Randall
for
their
earlier
comments,
if
you're
watching
belatedly.
Thank
you
for
that.
Okay,
it
is
coming
up
to
quarter
to
nine,
so
we've
been
here
for,
for
just
over
two
hours
can
I
suggest
we
take
a
break
until
10
to
9
and
then
come
back
and
finish
off
the
session.
Thank
you.
E
E
Thank
you
all
for
for
coming
back
agenda
item
seven
now,
which
is
the
update
for
the
pH
committee
around
the
the
water
cycle
study.
We
don't
have
a
portfolio
holder
to
speak
to
this,
but
we
do
have
two
visiting
speakers
so
can
I
welcome
up
to
the
the
table.
First
of
all,
please
Jackie
Brown.
B
There's
insufficient
time
to
go
through
the
planning,
Department's
report,
but
it's
worth
recapping
on
the
reasons
for
the
way
forward
and
importance
of
addressing
these
prior
to
publication
of
reg
18.
B
The
study
itself
recommends
that
the
potential
impact
on
phosphate
load
in
the
nearby
River
test
triple
SI,
is
investigated
further
by
the
water
company
before
significant
New
Growth
is
permitted
in
the
catchment.
Not
all
treatment
works.
Discharge
permits
are
set
to
maintaining
the
current
water
framework
status
of
the
receiving
water
body.
B
B
R
Thank
the
officers
for
the
report.
Thank
you.
It's
been
six
months
since
the
page
committee
recommended
The
Way
Forward,
Jackie
Brown
is
just
able
to
set
out
the
limitations
to
the
watch
cycle
study
and
and
reminded
us
of
the
room
recommendation
recommendation
of
actions
to
be
taken
before
regulation.
18.
I
think
you
agree
that
the
update
demonstrates
rather
modest
concrete
progress
to
date.
Decisions
seem
to
be
taken
to
delay
items
until
regulation
18,
or
it
appears
not
to
be
taken
to
taken
forward
at
all.
R
Certainly
this
is
not
what
I
anticipated
when
we,
when
we
made
these
recommendations,
I'm
concerned
we'll
be
much
in
the
same
position
in
September
2023
on
the
issues
as
we
were
in
September
2022
and
the
regulation
alpu
will
be
based
upon
the
same
flawed
assumptions
and
widely
discredited
infrastructure
delivery
expectations.
Event.
Borough
Council
have
recently
acted
on
This
concerns
and
appointed
the
consultant
to
challenge
Southern
water
and
information.
They
all
they
they
the
information
they
give
them.
They'll,
obviously
see
the
need
and
benefit
of
doing
this.
R
The
reasons
for
needing
urgent
action
on
these
items
is
that,
if
we
cannot
have
confidence
in
the
delivery
of
required
infrastructure,
we
will
need
pulse
strong
policies
to
protect
the
environment
and
our
communities.
Whilst
these
may
be
challenged
at
registration
18,
it
would
be
up
to
the
vested
interest
to
explain
why
the
policies
are
inappropriate.
We
need
the
work
done
under
this
way
forward.
To
be
able
to
argue
our
case,
glossing
things
over
will
merely
facilitate
continued
mismanagement
of
the
environment
in
September.
R
The
idea
of
a
task
and
finish
group
to
strengthen
the
policies
was
muted.
This
is
something
possibly
the
eph
considered
taking
for
to
try
and
strengthen
some
of
those
policies.
We
would
very
much
welcome
meeting
with
a
portfolio
holder,
the
planning
department
and,
if
appropriate,
interest
in
members
of
the
committee
to
review
what
should
be
done
and
how
we
can
help
to
take
this
program
forward.
Thank
you.
O
E
E
What
I
would
say,
though,
in
response
to
to
David
George's
comment
about
the
motion
is
I'm
I'm
minded
to
to
suggest
a
motion
that
we
create
a
task
and
finish
group
about
this
I'm
not
going
to
set
that
forward
just
yet,
but
please
do
think
about
that
as
you're
asking
questions
throughout
this
paper
to
see
whether
you
think
it
would
make
sense
for
us
if
the
questions
aren't
sufficiently
answered
tonight,
whether
it
makes
sense
for
us
to
set
up
a
task
and
finish
group
specifically
on
this
issue,
so
I
propose
we
we
go
through
this
question
by
question:
we've
got
cancer
ganesho
as
a
portfolio
holder,
plus
Joe
and
Anne,
offering
officer
expert
guidance,
so
can
I
ask
that
we
we
go
through
beginning
with
the
first
question,
please
so
work
to
reduce
the
total
number
of
homes
to
be
delivered
on
the
basis
of
inadequate
environmental
capacity.
K
Thank
you,
chair,
going
casting
my
mind
back
and
looking
at
this.
As
far
as
I
understood,
the
water
cycle
study
certainly
did
not
say
that
there
was
a
need
to
reduce
it,
but
what
it
didn't
say
was
explained
in
the
fact
that
there
was
going
to
be
a
lack
of
fresh
water
supply.
There
was
going
to
be
rationing,
there
were
going
to
be
Water,
Management
features.
There
were
going
to
be
so
many
things
on
on
top
of
the
sewage
and
and
that
that
it
actually
the
the
logical
step,
the
the.
K
If
you
like,
the
the
the
stating
the
obvious
we
are
in
trouble,
and
we
can't
just
say,
because
it
did
not
say
that
it
did
say
there
would
be
severe
problems
for
residents
and
challenges.
It
was
not
being
particularly
helpful,
so
I
still
think
that
question
remains
very
critical
and
and
unanswered
really.
Thank
you.
E
K
Well,
yes,
it
is
an
answer,
but
I,
don't
think
I
think
this
is
going
to
be
subject
to
a
lot
of
debate
in
the
future,
because
I
don't
think
it's
sorry
the
right
answer.
It's
it's!
It's
an
interpretation
of
what
you
have
given
in
front
of
you,
but
looking
deeper
at
it.
I
think
we're
in
trouble.
Thank.
D
Yes,
thank
you
very
much
right
in
terms
of
this
specific
point
alone:
it's
dancing
on
a
pinhead
because
in
the
water
cycle
study
throughout
it
says
that
there
won't
be
a
detrimental
impact
Etc
as
long
as
the
required
infrastructure
Solutions
are
delivered
or
it
concludes
that
there
are
feasible
solutions
to
ensure
that
things
don't
deteriorate,
or
it
says
we
can
have
demand
management
and
basically
effectively
ration
water.
D
So
so
so
so,
if
you
were
to
invert
the
question
and
say
if
those
feasible
Solutions,
weren't,
practical
or
cost
available,
or
if
the
infrastructure
wasn't
able
to
be
delivered,
then
by
inference
the
number
of
homes
will
have
to
be
reduced,
so
I
I
think
I
I,
don't
like
this
response.
I,
don't
think
it's
accurate
and
I
think
the
point
that
David
George
and
Jackie
made
were
very
well
made,
which
is
that
it
is
essential
that
our
policies
are
strong
and
robust
and
established
before
we
proceed
to
Reg
18.
D
In
order
to
ensure
that
we
don't
end
up
where
we
are
at
the
moment
where
we
have
trajectory
of
waters
that
is
going
down,
and
yet
we
still
can't
exercise
ss4
and
stop
any
further
building,
so
I
mean
there's
no
point
in
this
Council
being
an
ostrich
and
parking
its
head
in
the
sand.
We
have
got
a
problem.
The
water
cycle
study
has
identified
a
problem.
D
The
water
cycle
study
one
identified
a
problem
in
the
water
cycle,
study
two
identified
a
problem,
and,
of
course,
yes,
if
all
the
infrastructure
is
provided,
there
isn't
a
problem
but
who's
going
to
provide
the
infrastructure,
and
we
have
to
be
absolutely
confident
that
that
infrastructure
will
be
provided
before
we
permit
these
sites
to
go
forward
to
the
next
stage.
S
I'll
just
say
briefly:
the
Water
Resource
Management
plans
that
have
been
agreed
and
the
draft
ones
that
are
out
now
or
have
been
out
recently
are
rigorously
scrutinized
by
off
what
the
environment
agency,
the
drinking
water
inspectorate
before
being
approved
by
Secretary
of
State,
so
there's
quite
a
rigorous
process
for
that.
The
number
of
options
they've
considered
and
they're
very
technical
documents
that
can
Syria
consider
various
options.
S
They've
also
got
a
number
of
different
Pathways,
so
they've
got
nine
Pathways
to
allow
for
different
scenarios
so
to
allow
for
different
population
growth
forecasts
to
allow
for
climate
change.
That
could
be
unpredictable
so
whilst
they
are
setting
a
particular
path
now
this
is
their
50-year
plans,
but
they're
reviewed
every
five
years,
so
the
bar,
the
pathway,
could
be
amended
if
climate
change
or
population
growth
figures
suggests
that
it's
needed
to.
Yes,
it
is
recognized
that
there's
it
is
an
area
of
severe
water
stress,
but
that's
across
the
whole
region.
E
Thank
you
and
I
think
the
challenge
you've
got
is
that
there
are
a
number
of
us
around
this
table
who
are
incredibly
skeptical
of
the
Water
Company's
ability
to
actually
deliver.
Based
on
previous
experience,
I
I
appreciate
you,
you,
you
sort
of
responding,
but
I.
Don't
think
that
that's
going
to
persuade
us
just
because
of
the
the
history
of
what
we've
all
experienced
and
what
our
residents
have
experienced.
Okay,
any
more
questions
or
comments
on
question,
one:
yes,
counselor
katacha.
M
S
I'm
not
quite
sure
on
that
in
terms
of
wastewater
treatment,
works
I
know
that
there
are
traditional
ways
of
treating
Wastewater,
that
they
are
encouraged
and
I
know
they
are
looking
at
alternative
ways
that
might
be
putting
less
chemicals
in,
but
more
natural
processes
such
as
wetlands,
but
there's
various
different
feasibilities
of
how
that
could
work.
M
Of
course,
so
it
didn't
make
it
clear.
I
know
that
so
I'm
going
to
say
that,
for
example,
let's
say
you're
flushing
a
Torah
over
in
a
shower,
would
there
be
any
sort
of
a
technology
where
it
can
be
recycled,
so
it
doesn't
affect
the
level
of
water
or
it
doesn't
affect
the
environment.
That's
what
I
meant
as
well.
S
Yeah
and
when
they're
looking
at
Water
neutrality
options
in
the
water
cycle
study,
there
was
things
suggested,
is
rainwater
harvesting
and
and
yeah
recycling
suggestions
like
that?
Obviously
there
are
cost
implications
for
developers
and
yeah
developing
new
houses,
but
that
was
looked
at.
D
Yes,
Mr
chairman
sorry,
I'm
I'm,
actually
going
back
to
an
earlier
point,
because
I
want
Clarity
from
the
executive
director
I'm
reading
the
Constitution,
and
she
explicitly
said
that
we
are
not
permitted
to
ask
visitors
questions
and
I'm
I'm
reading
and
I've
read
the
rules
of
debate
and
I'm.
D
Looking
at
4.55,
amended
20,
January,
2023,
11a,
14,
b,
c
d,
e,
f
and
I
have
to
say,
executive
director
I
would
like
a
little
bit
more
clarity
from
you
as
to
where
in
any
of
those
sections,
it
says
that
we
are
not
allowed
to
put
we're
not
permitted
to
ask
a
question
of
a
visiting
speaker,
especially
an
authoritative
expert,
like
Dave
George.
D
I
have
great
respect
for
you,
but
I
have
to
say
from
a
legal
interpretation
and
I
will
read
it
for
the
public.
It
says
for
each
substantive
item
of
business,
the
following
order
will
normally
apply
normally
apply.
One
introduction
report
by
chair,
Cabinet
member
officer
or
visiting
speaker
as
appropriate,
number
two
presentation,
if
required,
number
three
contributions
by
visiting
councilors
to
the
chair,
number
four
contributions
and
discussions
by
members
of
the
committee.
D
It
does
not
in
any
section
of
as
11a
nor
in
the
subsequent
sections
does
it
imply
that
we
are
not
permitted
to
ask
a
visiting
a
visiting
member
of
visiting
person,
a
visitor,
a
question.
E
Can
I
just
cut
that
off
there
I
think
what
we'll
do
in
the
interest
of
time
consciously
it's
sort
of
ten
past
nine,
now
I
don't
have
a
debate
about
the
Constitution.
E
What
I
will
do
I
will
stick
with
the
office
officer's
recommendation
of
not
asking
any
questions
of
the
the
speaker,
but
if
we
do
go,
if
we
decided
as
a
committee
that
we
want
to
go
ahead
and
create
a
task
and
finish
group,
then
I
would
hope
that
that
task
and
finish
group
would
wish
to
speak
to
councilor,
George
and
and
pick
his
brains
on
on
the
subject
on
which,
as
you
rightly
say,
he
is
an
expert.
D
Awesome
I
I,
thank
you
for
that
and
in
the
interests
of
experience,
yeah
I
will
support
you,
but
I
think
it
is
very
clear
from
the
legal
words
that
I'm
reading
that
we
have
been
misguided
by
the
executive
director
and
I
would
like
some
update,
because
it
is
explicitly
not
state
that
I
cannot
or
any
of
us
cannot
ask
a
visitor
questions,
and
it
seems
to
me
that
an
over
interpretation
and
a
misguidance
has
taken
place
and
I
think
that's
quite
serious,
because
this
is
an
overview
and
scrutiny
committee.
Thank
you.
E
Thank
you,
Council
Cooper
I
will
ask
the
officers
if
I
may,
that
we
come
back
and
look
at
this
and
and
if
necessary,
if
we
need
to
get
a
report
from
the
head
of
Law
and
governance,
so
we
can
have
consistency
both
within
this
meeting
and
within
other
meetings
as
okay.
So
that's
question
one
any
questions
or
comments
on
question.
Two
Sorry.
D
E
Okay
question:
two:
rethink
the
spatial
strategy
to
place
less
demand
and
impact
on
those
areas,
most
vulnerable
to
water,
supply
and
Wastewater
impacts.
Any
questions
or
comments
on
that.
Please,
foreign.
E
D
Cancer,
human
Mr
chairman
I,
appreciate
what
you're
doing
and
I
appreciate
that
we
we
don't
have
a
lot
of
time
and
I
also
don't
want
to
repeat
in
each
paragraph
what
I've
said
in
the
Preamble,
which
is
we
have
a
problem
with
water.
We
don't
have
enough
water.
Our
aquifers
haven't
got
enough
water.
We
have
a
problem
with
lack
of
infrastructure.
D
We
have
a
problem
with
the
EA
failing
to
do
its
duties
because
it
hasn't
been
funded
properly
by
the
government
we
have
and
it
it
affects,
and
it
weaves
its
way
through
all
of
us,
the
challenges
of
future
water
supply,
and
whilst
this
paper
is
interesting,
it
doesn't
address
any
of
the
problems
and
you've
alluded
to
possibly
a
task
and
finish
to
address
these
issues,
because,
what's
very
very
clear,
is
it's
absolute
essential.
We
do
not
proceed
to
regulating
until
the
answers
have
been
found
to
these
very
serious
questions.
D
So
I,
don't
know
what
the
rest
of
the
members
feel
because
I'm
sure
they
don't
want
to
hear
me
repeat
any
each
section.
What
I
say
in
if
in
the
previous
ones
do
how
we
proceed
because
the
phosphates?
It's
the
same
issue:
the
water
supply,
it's
the
same
issue,
the
spatial
strategies
and
the
infrastructure
is
the
same
issues.
It's
it's.
The
same
theme
that's
applied
across
the
board.
Okay,.
E
So
if
you
can,
please
take
a
look
through
the
the
next
few
pages,
all
the
way
up
to
including
page
76.,
and
let
me
know
if
you
have
any
questions
and
what
we'll
do
thereafter
is
I
will
I
will
then
propose
the
motion
for
setting
up
a
task
and
finish
group
and,
and
we
can
take
it
from
there,
so
I've
got
questions
from
councilor,
Tomlin,
Council,
Watts
and
anyone
else,
cancer
qubit
as
well,
okay,
so
Council
Tomlin.
Thank.
K
You
chair,
it's
a
general
comment
and
I
think
the
section
is
the
phosphates
phosphates
generated
by
housing
passing
into
the
water
currently
in
our
DCC
planning.
When
we
see
offsetting
going
on,
we
have
got
this
situation
where
developers
now
don't
have
to
take
land
of
a
comparable
size
to
turn
it
over
into
taking
it
out
of
Agriculture.
The
other
method
is
to
basically
spend
some
money
down
with
eastleigh
Borough
Council
as
an
offsetting
thing.
K
It
I
think
the
whole
thing
is
very
unsatisfactory
and
I
think
we
need
to
drill
to
the
bottom
of
this
for
going
forward
with
our
plan
that
these
cut
they're,
not
sorry,
these
nitrate
offsets
and
the
mechanisms
are,
are
too
easy
and
and
don't
I,
don't
think
you're
addressing
the
total
problem
and
I
think
somewhere
along
the
line.
We
need
to
capture
that
whether
it's
in
this
particular
question
but
I
think
that's
something
we
must
flag
up.
Thank
you.
E
G
Age,
73
policy
and
development
School
respect
and
enhance
special
qualities
of
our
rivers,
and
that
isn't
really
happening
at
the
moment
as
if
we
have
evidence
from
visitors
tonight
and
and
that
this
local
plan
that's
coming
up.
That's
going
to
have
detrimental
effect
on
our
Rivers
I.
Just
wonder
if
there's
any
legal
position
that
this
Council
can
take.
G
If
water
companies
do
not
fill
their
obligations
and
they
continue
to
contaminate
our
Rivers,
whether
we
can
have
some
sort
of
policy
I
know
we
it's
the
environments,
agencies
to
monitor
it
and
everything,
but
we
have
firm
policies
and
I
like
to
investigate
where
we
can
actually
get
something
legally
in
a
development
policy
that
could
maybe
find
these
these
water
companies,
if
that's
possible,.
S
E
G
Really
adequate
I
mean
the
environment
agency
issues
licenses,
they
the
water
companies
flout
them,
and
we
us
our
Rivers
get
more
and
more
polluted,
so
it
the
whole
enforcement
regime
isn't
tight
enough
and
there's.
Maybe
it's
something.
There's
a
council
we
could.
We
could
look
at
and
see
where
we
can't
get
any
powers.
I
know,
that's
that's
the
way
it
is
at
the
moment.
Maybe
we
could
Lobby
government,
and
so
we
need
more
enforcement
and
more
regulation.
E
Thank
you,
Council
Watts,
before
I
go
to
council,
Canary
I
would
say
so.
One
of
the
questions
I
had
or
one
of
the
points
I
wanted
to
raise
is
mentioned
repeatedly
here
that
we've
tried
to
invite
the
environment
agency
to
come
to
speak
to
us
to
one
of
our
meetings
and
they
keep
delaying
it.
So
I
just
like
to
reinforce
that.
P
Thank
you,
chair,
I,
think
the
council,
Awards
Point
Point,
are
very
important
points.
It's
not
just
Arbor
or
there
are
the
many
borrowers
around
the
region
are
having
issues
with
water
companies
not
complying
with
the
regulations
and
getting
away
with
it,
which
is
something
that
we
have
highlighted
in
the
past
with
the
number
of
Secretary
of
States
and
we
have
written
to
them
and
we
have
got
some
responses
and
our
neighboring
mpo
one
of
the
babaros
MP
running
a
job.
P
You
know
when
he
was
Secretary
of
State.
He
had
yeah,
he
had
Britain
to
water
companies
and
he
had
asked
them
for
face-to-face
meetings
and
where
he
insisted
about
the
lots
of
the
issues,
including
our
borrows.
So
this
is
an
ongoing
work
and,
as
some
of
the
officers
mentioned,
that
this
is
something
that
EI
monitor,
which
is
something
we
would
like
to
engage
with.
P
Ai
ENC,
if
there's
a
way
that
we
can
influence
on
the
way
that
they
manage
these
water
companies
and
I
would
like
to
explore
if
there's
a
way
that
we
can
bring
or
if
there's
a
way
we
can
think
of
a
policy
within
our
the
local
plan
that
can
influence
it.
P
I'm,
not
sure
I'm,
not
guaranteeing
anything,
but
I
would
like
to
explore
the
options
if
there's
a
way
that
we
can
come
up
with
a
a
policy
that
can
ask
water
companies
to
do
more,
rather
than
depending
on
the
national
government
or
or
the
EA,
to
monitor
or
evaluate
them,
and
follow
up
with
that.
Thank
you,
chair.
D
Thank
you
very
much,
councilor
Ganesh
for
being
in
listening
mode.
We
were
a
co-signatory
of
a
statement
of
common
ground
and
I.
Think
I
don't
know.
Is
there
a
legal
implication,
Duo
statement
of
common
ground?
D
It
was
a
submission
to
the
planning
inspector
when
our
local
plan
was
approved
between
us
and
we
were
co-signatories
with
the
environment
agency
and
with
Thames
water,
and
we
made
a
significant
numbers
of
undertakings
and,
on
the
basis
of
those
undertakings
that
we
co-signed
with
Thames
water
and
the
environment
agency,
together
with
the
undertakings
in
the
current
local
plan
that
we,
in
partnership
with
the
environment
agency,
the
water
companies
and
Natural
England,
would
monitor
the
river
every
year
and
adhere
to
the
obligations
that
we
committed
to
to
protect,
manage
and
improve
the
water
quality.
D
So
that's
all
there,
and
then
we
have
the
section
ss4,
which
was
overlaid
on
top
of
it,
so
that
we
could
use
that
policy.
To
say
sorry,
mate
can't
build
anymore
because
you
or
we
as
the
co-signatories
of
the
same
conground
I,
haven't
done
with
that.
But
we
haven't
done
that
we
haven't,
we
haven't.
We
haven't
used
that
in
that
way,
so
we
we
we
we
we
have
failed
on
every
single
level.
Now
what
it
says
in
this
document
is,
we
can't
evaluate.
D
We
can't
evaluate
what
infrastructure
is
needed,
because
that's
the
Water
Company's
Duty
and
we
then
say
it's
it's
not
for
us
to
make
a
realistic
assessment
of
deliverability.
D
D
Our
plan
was
approved
by
the
inspector,
so
we
then
have
a
situation
this
year
alone
in
the
month
of
January,
where
Thames
water
has
a
a
dumped
raw
sewage
into
the
river
Loden
four
times
and
on
January
the
16th
it
dumped
raw
sewage
for
20
hours
into
the
river
London,
and
that
was
in
this
month
of
January.
D
So
I
have
to
say
that
I
think
the
council
is
already
accountable
because
there
were
co-signatories
of
the
second
to
Common
Ground
and
they
have
got
commitment
and
they
are,
they
are,
are
in
partnership
with
the
environment
agency
and
with
Thames
water.
So,
on
the
basis
of
what's
happened
to
date,
it
doesn't
fill
me
with
very
much
confidence
that
we
proceed
to
Reg
18,
on
a
promise
that
this
infrastructure
is
going
to
get
delivered,
because
history
tells
us
that
we
fail
to
monitor.
D
We,
the
council
have
failed
to
monitor
because
we
have
a
commitment
in
the
plan
to
do
so.
We
promised
all
these
commitments
from
the
same
to
Common,
Ground
and
and
and
and
yet
we
presided
over
a
degradation
in
the
quality
of
the
water
and
there's
obviously
huge
issues
with
regards
to
River
test
which
I'm
equally
passionate
about
which
wasn't
even
covered
in
the
last
plan
and
and
and
water
sources.
D
So
there's
two
things:
firstly,
I
was
wondering
whether
we
as
member
this
would
be
prepared
to
put
forward
a
motion
to
the
cabinet,
because
obviously
we
can
only
make
recommendations
saying
that
we
recommend
that
this
Council
does
not
proceed
to
Reg
18.
until
it
is
confident
that
the
infrastructure
deficit
and
the
water
supply
issues
have
been
clearly
resolved
and
identified
and
I,
don't
think,
that's
an
unfair
request
or
an
unfair
recommendation
to
make
to
the
cabinet,
because,
on
the
basis
of
the
past
experiences
that
we've
had,
we
failed
failed,
failed.
P
Thank
you,
Council
I,
don't
want
to
repeat
the
same
thing.
I've
said
as
this
is
something
that
EA
has
been
monitoring
and
we
have
been
working
with
EA
and
as
part
of
this
process
we
have,
we
were
planned.
We
were
meant
to
meet
with
ea
late
last
year,
but
which
was
canceled
and
we
are
planning
or
there
there
is
some
work
being
done
in
terms
of
engaging
with
EA
in
order
to
bring
them
to
the
table.
P
So
this
is
an
ongoing
process,
like
you
said
when
they
fight
when
this
water
companies
filed
that
something
need
to
be
addressed,
and
that's
exactly
something
that
I
said.
Like
you
said
as
a
core
signatory
of
of
this,
we
will
be
interesting
with
EA.
Thank
you.
D
E
Okay,
do
we
need
to
do
we
want
to
go
for
emotional?
We
happy
just
to
agree
as
as
a
as
a
committee
that
we
want
to.
We
want
to
motion
okay,
fine,
so
can
you
just
just
for
the
record
cancer?
Keep
it
just
restate
what
your
motion
is.
Please.
D
Right
that
we,
the
committee,
recommend
to
cabinet
that
this
Council
does
not
proceed
to
Reg
18
until
all
of
the
outstanding
issues
in
relation
to
infrastructure
requirements
and
or
infrastructure
requirements
are
I
clearly
identified
in
relation
to
water
problems
in
all
three
of
the
water
bodies,
the
river
test,
the
river
Loden
and
the
emblem.
E
Okay,
thank
you
councilman,
just
looking
at
officers
is
that
a
valid
motion,
any
issues
with
that.
No
okay.
In
that
case
we've
got
a
proposal.
We've
got
a
second
can.
If
you
are
in
favor
of
the
motion,
can
you
raise
your
hand
please
now
that
is
unanimous.
Thank
you
very
much.
That
motion
is
carried
councilman.
D
Sorry,
thank
you
so,
in
relation
to
in
relation
to
the
the
policy
I'm
very
pleased
to
see
the
officers
adding
the
test
and
the
inborn
I'm.
Not
sorry
is
the
action
in
our
what
in
Old
courses
is
in
Wichita
anyway,
yes,
I'm
happy
for
the
itching
I
love
the
itching
as
well,
and
I
love
all
of
them,
so
I
pass
anyway,
I
I.
D
But
what
I
would
like
to
see
and
I
don't
know,
Mr
chairman
if
this
is
the
right
place,
to
the
wording
to
be
changed,
development
proposals
will
conserve
and
enhance
the
special
qualities
of
the
river
corridors
and
their
drip
trees.
Then
I
would
also
like
to
see
development
that
is
within
or
adjacent
to
the
river
Lord
and
test
for
unborn
catchment,
so
corridors
deleted
in
catchment
inserted
and
their
tributaries
will
be
required
to
protect,
insert
protect,
conserve
and
enhance,
and
then
one
other
amendment
is
where
it
says
the
river
corridors.
D
E
We
will
make
a
note
of
those
and
and
leave
it
to
the
portfolio
holder
to
decide.
Thank
you.
Council
qubit
find
the
question
on
this
section.
Council
McCormick.
J
A
common
theme
version
here
in
terms
of
lack
of
public
confidence
in
water
companies
to
deliver
the
required
improvements
to
make
sure
that
number
one.
We
have
adequate
water
supply
number
two.
We
don't
have
sewage
effluen.
So
my
question
is
what
really
about
public
accountability,
because
the
water
companies
aren't
really
publicly
accountable
and
the
only
way
I
could
see
a
water
company
being
publicly
accountable
is
frankly
for
us
to
re-nationalize
water,
because
at
the
moment
water
companies
have
private
Monopoly.
You
can't
choose
your
water
company.
J
All
you
can
do
in
terms
of
choice
is
have
a
water
meter
installed
or
not.
So
so.
My
question
is
to
the
portfolio
Holder.
Will
you
make
the
necessity
rest
presentations
either
to
this
government
or
to
the
next
about
ensuring
we
have
the
proper
public
accountability
of
water
companies,
because
at
the
moment
they
could
just
say:
oh
yeah,
we'll
do
it.
We've
got
no
means
of
examining
that
and
being
able
to
hold
them
up
to
scrutiny,
to
see
if
they're
actually
capable
of
delivering
and
in
terms
of
the
local
plan.
J
That
means,
for
instance,
with
a
golf
course
that
we've
passed
an
outline
planning
application
for
a
thousand
homes
in
the
golf
course,
and
it
can't
be
built
because
we
don't
have
the
capacity
for
sewage
and
we're.
Looking
at
the
observed
notion
of
pumping
The
Surge
up
over
chemshaw
Hill
down
the
other
side
and
laying.
J
E
Thank
you,
councilman
McCormick,
before
I
give
Council
against
a
chance
to
respond.
I'm
conscious
we're
about
a
minute
away
from
harpist
nine.
So
do
I
have
the
committee's
permission
to
suspend
standing
orders
with
a
view
to
wrapping
this
up
by
10
o'clock.
It's
an
extra
half
hour.
Thank
you
very
much.
Councilor
Ganesh.
P
Thank
you,
I'll
be
quick,
as
I
mentioned
before.
I
think
this
is
something
that
we
have
been
engaging
with
EA
and
we
insist
on
what
we
want
as
a
borrower.
So
what
I
can't
suggest
is
this
is
something
that
we
will
be
picking
up
with
the
the
plan
meeting
with
the
EA
and
offices.
If
there's
anything
to
add
on
to
that.
S
Thank
you.
My
only
point
to
make
is
it
is
that
I
do
completely
understand
why
you
know
the
lack
of
confidence,
but
I
think
there
have
been
improvements
and
the
requirement
now
to
have
drainage
and
Wastewater
management
plans
will
makes
it
more
accountable
and
the
current
ones
that
are
being
drafted
now
aren't
statutory,
but
the
next
ones
will
be,
but
again
it
it's
making
it
like.
The
Water
Resource
Management
plans
that
they're
setting
out
what
they're
going
to
do
and
they'll
have
to
do
progress
reports
and
then
see.
S
What's
going
to
be
done,
it's
got
It's
all
set
out
to
inform
their
Asset
Management
planning,
so
I
do
appreciate
the
lack
of
confidence,
but
I
think
there
have
been
improvements
since
the
last
plan
to
make
it
more
accountable
and
transparent.
J
I'm
not
sure
the
current
proposals
or
where
there
may
be
an
incremental
Improvement
on
what
went
previously
go
far
enough.
I
guess
the
portfolio
the
portfolio
hold
on.
So
you
mentioned
the
EA,
but
I
mean
it's
more,
a
question
of.
Will
you
take
the
fights
to
war
companies
and
try
and
get
the
government
to
do
that
as
well?
Because
the
way
I
see
is
the
walk?
Companies
take
money
off
public
and
then
just
go
when
it
comes
to
giving
meaningful
commitments
that
give
public
confidence
to
the
service
that
they
expect.
P
Thank
you,
chair,
I,
think
the
lack
of
confidence
on
water
companies
is
very
obvious.
This
is
exactly
why
we've
been
engaging
with
EA
and
the
Secretary
of
State
number
of
times
and
redirecting
the
point
asabara.
We
would
like
to
get
what
we
deserve
as
a
borrower,
so
we
have
been
working
our
and
in
terms
of
how
do
we
get
the
best
from
es
Point,
as
well
as
Secretary
of
State
a
number
of
times,
but
going
back
to
the
point
about
how
do
we
make
it
work?
If
there's
a
way
we
should
explore.
P
If
there's
a
way,
we
go
a
bit
further
and
see
if
there's
anything
that
we
can
put
in
as
part
of
our
the
policy
or
the
local
plan,
to
make
sure
that
we
can
make
this
water
companies
accountable.
We
should,
and
we
I
will
be,
asking
the
officers
to
do
that.
Okay,
thank
you.
L
Thank
you
Mr,
chair
yeah,
so
my
point
is
on
the
section
of
the
report.
Funnily
enough
that
we
came
there.
Hopefully
holder
was
talking
about
about
holding
the
high-level
meetings
with
the
environment
agency
and
far
be
it
from
here
to
understand
what
the
workload
is,
but
obviously
seem
very
busy
at
the
moment
to
speak
to
us.
We
know
what
they
would
see
anyway.
I
think
they
came
out
in
November
last
year,
where
they
stressed
the
urgency
in
needing
to
improve
traction
conditions.
L
Are
we
able
to
well
I
suppose
we
are
it's
in
our
own
powers,
whilst
we're
waiting
for
the
EA
to
come
back
to
us?
Why
don't
we
take
actions
into
our
own
hands
so
to
why
Why
Don't
We
Begin
discussions
with
the
Hampshire
County
Council
about
our
local
nature
recovery
strategy
for
our
our
Rivers?
L
Why
don't
we
engage
Kaba
the
catchment-based
approach,
who
are
running
a
strategy
right
now
on
how
we
improve
our
they've,
actually
producer
job
stream
restoration
strategy?
So
we
can
actually
go
to
these
outside
bodies
who
seem
to
be
a
step
ahead
of
the
environment
agency
and
and
quite
literally
10
steps
ahead
of
the
the
water
companies
I
think
that
was
probably
the
best
best
action
that
we
can
take
whilst
we're
waiting
for
these
other
bodies
to
get
back
to
us.
Thank
you.
Cancer
Ganesh.
P
Thank
you
chair.
Thank
you.
Councilor
McIntyre
I
think
it's
a
very
good
point.
We
should
be
working
on
the
area
SPL.
We
can
achieve
what
we
can
fix
things
like
you
suggested.
If
there's
a
way,
we
can
engage
with
the
Hampshire,
County,
Council
or
any
other
bodies,
or
if
that's
a
way
that
we
can
engage
in,
engage
with
water
companies
directly
in
order
to
sort
of
get
the
best
outcome
for
the
borrower
or
make
the
talk
streams.
P
Save
we
should
be
working
on
that
and
I
will
ask
the
officers
to
go
and
explore
if
there's
a
way
that
we
can
do
that.
Thank
you.
D
Sorry
I'm
just
thank
you
very
much
for
your
commitments.
Camera
member
just
just
very,
very
quickly,
it's
great
to
talk
about
third
parties,
voluntary
areas,
Carvers
all
that
stuff,
that's
great
right
and
we
all
are
hoping
and
we're
already
dialoguing
with
all
those
organizations
already.
The
point
is
in
the
local
plan.
D
The
policy
will
be
monitored
by
the
environment
agency,
water
companies
and
the
council,
through
a
detailed
monitoring
plan
to
ensure
compliance
with
the
world
framework
directive
and
the
relevant
Basin
management
group,
so
that,
yes,
it's
great
for
those
to
happen,
but
we
have
obligations,
as
I
said
already
in
the
statement
of
common
ground
and
in
our
plan
and
those
are
obligations
we
have
to
meet.
Thank
you.
Thank.
E
You
okay,
I've,
mentioned
several
times
this
evening
about
potentially
setting
up
a
a
task
and
finish
group
for
this
to
to
to
look
at
exactly
what
we
can
do
in
terms
of
looking
at
the
water
cycle
study
and
how
that
feeds
into
the
local
plan
policies.
I'm
now
going
to
formally
move
a
motion
to
that
effect.
Does
anybody
wish
the
second
act,
Council
McCormick?
Thank
you
very
much.
H
E
I
think
I
I
I,
don't
have
any
issues
with
that.
I
think
it.
There
may
be
that
the
more
practical
challenge
of
doing
that
is
that
there
are
several
members
sat
around
here
who
face
election
this
year
and
therefore
they
they
may
during
that
period,
yeah
yeah,
but
we
we,
let's
see
what
we
can
do.
Cats
Council,
Ganesh.
P
Thank
you
I
think
this
is
something
that
we
should
probably
speak
to
democracy
service.
If
there's
a
way,
we
can
start
quicker
as
possible,
like
you,
so
I
just
certainly
should,
but
if
there's
any
anything,
stop
us
from
doing
it,
Democratic
service
might
be
able
to
get
back
to
us.
Okay.
Thank
you.
Thank.
E
E
P
Thank
you
so
much
the
committee
with
a
number
of
valuable
input
and
as
I
mentioned
asoboro,
we
should
be
engaging
with
any
bodies
that
could
make
the
outcome
better
for
the
Bora
and
I
have
committed
on
engaging
with
number
of
buddies
and
I
will
be
getting
back
to
you
and
updating
at
some
point
in
future.
Thank
you.
E
Thank
you,
Council
Ganesh,
thank
you
also
as
well
to
Ann
and
to
Joe,
who
I
think
have
had
to
defend
the
in
defense
support
tonight,
but
you've
had
a
good
go
and
I
really
appreciate
you.
You
you
taking
the
time
to
answer
our
questions,
so
thank
you
very
much
all
of
you
for
that.
E
Okay,
we
move
on
to
item
eight,
which
is
the
recommendation
tracker
for
eph.
This
is
an
item
just
for
noting,
if
anyone
has
any
questions
or
comments
on
that
now
is
your
opportunity.
E
J
I
can't
resist
asking
this
question
minute:
reference
number
2722,
Leisure
Park
master
plan.
Is
it
appropriate
for
the
committee
to
maybe
commence
a
piece
of
work?
Looking
at
the
latest
proposals
with
great
wolf.
N
E
Thank
you,
councilman
Comics
funny.
You
should
say
that,
because,
as
part
of
the
next
agenda
item,
I
was
going
to
to
propose
a
another
motion
for
another
task
and
finish
group
to
look
at
not
just
that,
but
the
whole
Leisure
Park
plans
in
general
and
the
the
context
of
this
is,
is
not
just
the
announcement
of
the
of
the
potential
Resort
next
to
Leisure
Park,
but
also
the
decision
by
cabinet
on
Monday
to
proceed
with
the
master
plan
as
it
currently
stands.
E
Despite
serious
concerns
raised
by
the
scrutiny
committee
during
a
call-in
meeting
last
month
at
that
meeting,
the
relevant
portfolio
holder
said
he
would
be
potentially
open
to
the
idea
of
working
with
a
task
and
finish
group.
If
one
was
created
by
one
of
the
policy
committees,
so
I
was
going
to
propose
that
we
do
exactly
that
and
create
one
of
these
committees
to
to
work
with
the
portfolio
holder
on
the
plans
for
the
Leisure,
Park
and
and
I.
Think
that
would
also
I
would
hope
would
be.
E
E
No,
in
that
case
we're
just
looking
at
offices
to
make
sure
that's,
that's
all
valid
yeah.
Let's
put
that
to
the
votes
all
in
favor.
That
is
unanimous
as
well.
Thank
you
very
much,
okay.
So
that's
item
number,
eight
covered
item.
Number.
Nine
is
the
work
program,
so
obviously,
we've
got
today
which
we've
managed
to
get
through
relatively
quickly.
We've
got
the
next
meeting
on
the
13th
of
July
I.
E
E
No
okay,
in
that
case,
I,
think
we're
in
a
position
to
wrap
up.
So
thank
you
all
for
your
time.
Thank
you
for
for
keeping
it
brief
with
it's
20
to
10,
so
we've
done
a
reasonable
job
on
this,
so
at
20
to
10,
I
confirmed
that
this
meeting
is
closed.
Thank
you.
Thank
you.