►
From YouTube: Basingstoke Gov - Scrutiny Committee - 14/02/2023
Description
If there is buffering on the YouTube stream, the webcast can be viewed through the council's website https://www.basingstoke.gov.uk/webcast
A
Okay,
thank
you.
Thank
you.
Everybody
for
coming
and
welcome
to
the
first
call
in
I
believe
in
seven
years
and
my
first
officially
chairing
meeting
in
the
public
so
so
say
be
gentle
with
me.
Let's
see
how
we
go
so
first
thing:
I'll
talk
through
is
just
the
usual
fire
evacuation
procedures.
I,
don't
believe,
there's
any
fire
alarm
tests
expected
tonight
so
they're.
If
the
fire
alarm
does
sound,
please
evacuate
the
building
immediately.
A
A
Okay.
Thank
you
right.
So
this
read
this
tonight
we're
doing
this.
The
Leisure
Park
master
plan,
adoption
call
in
the
contact
officers,
James
Mercer,
and
this
report
addresses
the
issues
raised
in
the
call
and
request
form
in
relation
to
cabinet's
decision
to
adopt
the
Leisure
Park
master
plan.
So
first
we're
going
to
do
is
invite
the
signatories
to
explain
the
reasons
for
their
request
and
what
they
feel
should
be
reviewed
and
just
to
let
you
know
you
have
got
25
minutes
to
share
a
talk
between
you.
A
So
once
the
25
minutes
is
up,
we
will
then
have
to
stop
the
clock.
A
So,
who
would
like
to
go
first.
B
Mccormick
sorry
chair,
so
hopefully
we
won't
need
the
25
minutes
between
the
service.
We
can
redistribute
that
to
the
other
speakers.
If
you
see
fit
share
I'll
just
set
out
our
initial
case.
B
It
was
apparent
when
we
had
the
initial
proposals
for
the
Leisure
plan
that
the
plan
lacked
Vision,
to
the
extent
that
we
had
a
motion
before
full
Council
to
that
effect.
That
was
past
my
full
Council
that
then
went
into
cabinet
last
month
and
the
Order
of
the
agenda
items
on
the
paper
suggested
the
decision
to
do
nothing
with
the
council
motion
or
reject
it
had
been
made
in
advance,
because
adoption
of
the
Leisure
plan
was
the
next
item
on
the
agenda.
B
B
Administration
and
I
get
the
impression
the
distinct
impression
look
at
these
papers
tonight
that
there's
a
lot
of
talking,
basing
Stoke
down
with
not
maximizing
the
opportunities
that
we
have
by
virtue
of
our
geography,
with
good
transport
connections
to
The,
Sims,
Valley
and
the
south
coast,
and
a
very
large
captive
population
within
an
hour's
travel
by
Road
or
rail,
specifically
looking
at
the
facilities
that
have
not
been
included
but
which
aspirational
voices
were
mentioned
at
full,
Council
and
and
on
other
occasions,
a
50
meter
pool
so
in
the
papers.
Tonight.
B
It
states
that
our
residents
should
travel
17
miles
down
the
M3
to
a
settlement.
Less
than
half
the
size
of
Basingstoke
to
swim
or
train
the
50
meter
pool
now,
I,
don't
think
that's
acceptable
for
our
residents.
I
think
that's
under
selling
basing
Stoke
to
our
residents
and
if
we
have
aspirations
to
get
a
satellite
University
campus
in
Basingstoke
than
we
really
need
to
think
about
facilities
like
a
50
meter
pool
which
a
lot
of
universities
have
on
their
primary
campuses
and
which
their
athletes
will
use.
B
There's
also
mention
about
how
much
it
would
cost
to
maintain
a
50
meter
pool
and
how
much
will
cost
to
heat,
etc,
etc.
We've
got
a
nice
drink
next
door.
We
can
do
things
with
heat
exchangers,
where
you're
trying
to
keep
water
warm
at
one
end
of
the
park
and
trying
to
keep
water
below
zero
at
another
end
of
the
park.
All
of
these
things
are
eminently
technically
feasible.
B
It
is
simply
a
case
of
where,
where
the
wheel
is
away-
and
is
there
a
will
in
this
Council
to
take
a
degree
of
calculated
risk
in
putting
forward
a
bolder
vision
for
our
Leisure
Park
there's
another
example:
the
snow
Dome.
Now
it
cites
Glasgow,
City
I'm,
familiar
with,
because
my
family
come
from
there
and
the
braehead
area
in
particular.
B
There
is
proven
demand
there.
We've
had
Olympic
skiers,
calling
for
the
bray
head
Center
to
be
reopened.
None
of
that's
mentioned
in
the
report.
Scotland
also
has
the
benefit
of
five
real
snow
slopes
within
two
hours:
drive
of
Glasgow
and
an
entire
ecosystem
of
aspirant
winter
Olympians
centered
on
snow
and
ice,
including
a
very
good
male
and
female
curling
team
that
have
won
Olympic
gold
before
now.
B
So
while
Scotland
is
specific
as
a
national
Center
of
Excellence
for
winter
sport,
the
specifics
regarding
Glasgow
and
the
fact
that
the
business
that
took
it
over
with
the
parent
company
has
been
running
a
successful
ice,
Climbing
Center
King
of
even
for
a
number
of
years,
but
will
basically
handed
something
that
they
couldn't
adapt
to
in
time
and
it's
folded.
B
Basically,
that's
a
bit
of
a
red
herring
when
looking
at
where
we
are
on
the
south
coast.
In
the
report
there
are
a
number
of
sites
listed
like
Tamworth,
Manchester,
Hemel,
Hempstead,
Milton
Keynes.
These
are
all
north
of
the
M4.
These
are
all
in
parts
of
the
country
that
have
no
greater
population
density
than
the
Thames
Valley
and
South
Coast.
There
is
nothing
south
of
the
M4
and
Swindon
is
cited
example
and
how
Swindon
have
struggled
to
build
it
for
years.
Well,
that's
Swindon!
B
That's
not
us,
and
actually
Swindon
doesn't
have
as
many
people
within
close
proximity
to
it.
It's
80
miles
from
London
it's
30
miles
from
Bristol
and
we
have
within
20
miles
a
significant
number
of
people
over
a
million
people
in
the
Thames
Valley
and
within
25
miles.
We've
got
two
million
people
on
the
south
coast
and
that
doesn't
include
the
Sussex
Surrey
and
Hampshire
conglomerate.
That
starts
round
about
Camberley
and
sort
of
extends
down
to
Farnham
and
then
in
other
directions
towards
London.
B
So
all
these
things
would
be
in
our
catchment
area
within
hours,
train
ride
of
Basingstoke.
So
if
we
had
the
vision,
if
we
built
it,
these
people
would
come
also
what
hasn't
been
mentioned
before
and
I
believe
councilor
kinesco
may
have
something
to
say
about
this:
A
rock
climbing
wall.
We
were
approached
by
someone
who
said:
there's
no
such
facility
now
with
an
easy
reach
of
bathing
Stoke
there
used
to
be
one
at
the
sports
center.
I
think
that's
been
closed.
B
For
a
number
of
years-
but
this
is
just
another
example
of
aspirin
sports
and
recreation
facilities-
and
incidentally,
if
we
want
to
have
a
University
campus
in
base,
is
that
a
rock
climbing
wall
is
a
pretty
good
draw
as
well,
because
most
universities
have
rock
climbing
or
mountaineering
clubs
based
in
their
primary
campuses
to
the
secondary
campus.
They
would
have
students
coming
down.
That
will
be
members
of
these
clubs
that
will
use
the
facilities.
B
And
finally,
there
are
other
things
that
might
my
colleague
will
mention
about
the
energy
efficiencies
site
and
other
things.
But
transport
I
mean
that's
a
glaring
emission.
Frankly,
access
is
a
bit
of
a
nightmare.
At
the
moment,
parking's
not
clearly
signed
it's
difficult
to
park
even
to
go
to
the
cost
of
coffee
place.
B
B
B
In
any
event,
I
think
if
it
goes
back
to
Cabinet,
they
need
to
have
a
serious
exercise
in
reconsidering
it.
So
that's
all
I'll
have
to
say
I'll
hand
over
to
to
Chris.
A
C
Right,
thank
you
chair
good
evening
members.
Obviously
much
of
what
a
Council
McCormick
said
is
is
I'm
totally
aligned
with
I
mean
we're
here,
because
we
agreed
at
full
Council
not
that
this.
This
master
plan
was
not
good
enough
and
that's
the
that's
the
reason
we
actually
had
a
council
as
a
majority
decision
that
we
needed
to
do
something
about
it,
and
now
we
find
ourselves
in
a
position
where
it's
going
to
go
ahead
regardless,
which
is
incredibly
disappointing
for
well
for
the
residents
not
just
for
obviously
counselors.
C
The
master
plan
sadly
lacks
ambition.
We
need
to
make
something.
We
need
to
get
something
to
attract
people
to
bring
them
into
Basingstoke.
It's
it's
such
an
important
thing.
We
have
a
very
good
site
and
we
have
very
good
road
access,
but
we
need
that
the
this
we're
lacking
novelty.
We
need
something
that
will
do
that
will
help
bring
people
in.
So
we
have
a
sort
of
mediocre
facility
provision.
Yes,
we
have
a
new
Aqua
Durham.
C
So
you
you
know,
we
we've
talked
about
the
snow
Dome.
Yes,
that
is
certainly
attraction.
Someone
said
to
me:
there
isn't
a
Velo
drone,
none
in
the
South
other
than
at
London
for
the
Olympics
there's
one
at
calcott
on
the
south
coast.
It's
an
outdoor
one,
but
something
like
that
would
attract
masses
of
people.
I'm,
not
saying
it's
the
answer,
but
it's
it's
an
important
thing
to
to
either
look
at
and
see
whether
we
we
can
do
something
of
such
a
such
an
impact.
C
The
the
other
thing
is,
of
course,
where
I'm
disappointed
is
that
we
we,
when
talked
about
the
Energy
Efficiency
and
the
fact
that
this
potential,
the
buildings
we
have
there,
we
could.
We
could
start
to
actually
power
them
from
renewable
energy.
If
we
look
at
Milestones
Museum,
that's
a
a
great
example.
The
number
of
solar
panels
put
on
there.
C
We
I
think
should
be
looking
also,
and
it's
it's
a
thing
about
it.
This
multi-purpose
unit
that
could
provide
a
football
I'm
not
going
to
use
the
word
Stadium,
because
everybody
seems
to
think
that's
going
to
be
some
massive
building.
It's
some
facility
that
can
put
back
what
didn't
happen
for
the
Basingstoke
football
team
and
and
all
the
training
and
everything
that
goes
with
that
Community.
That
didn't
happen
when
we
had
the
Bowser
on
and
planning
and
an
Etc
site
put
through
so
I
think
we
need
to
look
at
that.
C
So
I
will
not
go
on
anymore,
other
than
I.
Think
with
others.
I
think
are
in
a
semi-in
agreement
that
we
ought
to
be
looking
at
helping
not
just
criticizing
but
helping
this
task
panel
task
and
finish
panel.
That's
that's
the
thought
that
we
could
build
something
to
to
take
and
help
the
officers
and
the
portfolio
holder,
Etc,
try
and
get
something
that
will
make
Basingstoke
even
more
proud
and
can
make
a
much
better
commercial
offer.
So
thank
you
very
much
for
your
time.
A
Thank
you
I'm
now
going
to
invite
Mr
Peach
to
address
the
committee.
Thank
you.
D
Thank
you,
I'll
try
and
squeeze
this
into
the
two
minutes.
Essentially
yeah.
We
need
a
new
Leisure
pursuit
in
Basingstoke.
It's
not
currently
provided,
and
indeed
something
that
no
other
Southern
borough
has
with
the
opportunity
that
regeneration
offers
and
Basin
Stokes
location.
We
could
deliver
a
Leisure
facility
that
offers
a
choice
of
activities,
making
Basin
Stone
the
Leisure
destination
of
choice,
people
of
Bayes
and
stone,
and
the
neighboring
towns
have
told
me
that
they
want
an
indoor
skate
park
as
one
example.
D
The
nearest
indoor
parks
to
us
are
at
least
a
two-hour
drive
away
and
whilst
basenstock
has
a
Heritage
of
professional,
Riders
and
skaters
and
a
growing
number
of
new
participants,
there
is
no
indoor
park
where
it
is
safe
for
users
to
ride.
They
can
stay
dry
and
warm
in
the
British
weather
and
they
can
practice
all
year.
One
of
the
biggest
issues
we
face
is
financing
private
duties
with
incredibly
High
rents
in
the
South.
Investing
into
building
a
park
only
to
find
a
rent
increase
shuts
us
down
at
D
side
in
flintshire.
D
The
local
Authority
took
away
that
risk
and
they
now
run
a
skatepark
as
part
of
their
primary
offer
in
their
Leisure
Center.
It's
a
huge
success
and
you
can
imagine
what
that
could
be
in
Basingstoke
with
the
links
that
we've
got
here
in
our
roads
and
rail.
There's
a
newly
formed
non-profit
and
soon
to
be,
hopefully,
charity,
The,
Stoke
Park
has
been
talking
to
local
community
and
so
far
a
recent
petition
has
gained
660
signatures
in
only
two
weeks
and
we've
also
raised
nearly
700
pounds.
D
D
Since
that
inspirational
moment,
we've
seen
a
huge
influx
of
young
people
into
the
sport
and
their
parents
following
two.
The
master
plan
shows
immense
space
and
opportunity,
and
with
the
council
supports,
such
activities
would
surely
add
to
base
and
Stokes
Leisure
offer
a
survey
we
carried
out
with
over
30.
Nearly
40
of
users
said
that
they
would
travel
in
excess
of
two
hours
just
to
wrap
up
a
bit.
Okay,
oh
yeah,
my
goodness
that
was
quick,
basically
I'd,
just
like
to
wrap
up.
D
I
can't
finish
it
all,
but
there's
a
huge
growing
demand
for
these
types
of
sports.
You
know
it's
no
longer
that
traditional
anymore,
the
Olympics
has
really
driven
so
many
people
into
the
skate
and
BMX
and
probably
soon
to
be
scooter
as
well.
You
know
I
truly
believe
it
will
put
basinstoke
on
the
map,
and
people
will
travel
to
Basingstoke
to
come
and
see
this.
E
Thank
you
very
much
chair
when
I
read
through
the
papers
for
this
evening's
meeting,
I
kept
hearing
the
same
message:
repeated
Time
and
Time
Again
by
the
cabinet.
There's
no
other
realistic
alternative
to
the
current
plans.
The
50
meter
swimming
pool
will
be
too
costly
to
build
and
to
maintain
building
a
sports
stadium
is
too
big
an
investment,
and
anyway
it's
a
responsibility
of
the
private
sector.
If
commercial
operators
don't
want
to
run
the
snow
Dome,
then
it
doesn't
make
commercial
sense
for
us
to
have
one.
E
In
fact,
let's
just
stick
with
a
slightly
newer
version
of
what
we've
already
got.
It
won't
cost
us
too
much
it's
better
than
doing
nothing.
That
to
me
is
completely
the
wrong
attitude.
It
goes
against
the
motion
that
we
unanimously
agreed
at
the
full
council
meeting
just
a
couple
of
months
ago.
It
ignores
the
wishes
of
our
local
residents,
some
of
whom
are
here
this
evening,
who
want
us
to
be
more
creative
and
build
a
Leisure
Park
that
meets
our
needs
both
now
and
in
the
future.
E
And
it's
also
my
view,
based
on
the
misunderstanding
of
what
the
role
of
the
council
actually
is
as
a
local
Authority,
we're
not
beholden
to
shareholders,
demanding
that
we
maximize
our
financial
returns,
we're
accountable
to
our
residents,
who
expects
us
to
spend
their
money
in
the
best
interest
of
the
borough
as
a
whole,
and
these
are
two
very
different.
Metrics
and
they'll
lead
to
two
very
different
investment
decisions.
E
As
a
council,
we
need
to
be
more
broadly
based
and
more
holistic,
and
we
need
to
look
at
all
of
the
social
economic
benefits
for
the
borough
as
a
whole,
and
our
business
case
needs
to
take
into
account
all
of
the
benefits
of
our
investment,
and
here
are
just
a
few
of
the
benefits
that
we
need
to
consider
when
we're
developing
the
relationship.
Part
master
plan.
E
In
my
view,
the
benefits
to
our
borough's
economy
as
a
whole
of
attracting
more
visitors,
because
they'll
come
to
the
Leisure
Park,
but
hopefully
they'll
also
spend
their
money
in
the
town
center
and
Beyond.
The
health
and
well-being
benefits
to
local
residents
from
pursuing
exciting
sporting
and
Leisure
opportunities.
E
The
opportunities
that
the
facilities
can
provide,
particularly
to
our
young
people,
to
do
something
rewarding
in
their
spare
time.
Activities
like
climbing
and
indoor
skateboarding,
as
a
younger
counselor
I
learned
to
climb
indoors
I
had
to
go
to
reading
to
do
that,
and
it
was
pretty
much
a
90-minute
round
trip.
So
I
gave
up
after
a
while.
E
So
many
benefits
but
I've
not
seen
any
analysis
by
the
cabinet
to
try
to
quantify
them
and
Factor
them
into
the
decision-making
process.
The
cabinet
has
tried
to
justify
its
decision
by
suggesting
it
as
no
option
but
to
stick
with
its
current
lackluster
plans.
Nothing
else
is
viable,
but
that's
not
true.
There
are
other
better
options
if
we're
prepared
to
look
at
the
benefits
in
their
entirety,
and
let
me
be
clear,
I'm
not
suggesting
for
one
minute
that
we
ignore
Financial
sustainability
or
that
we
recklessly
spend
public
money.
E
In
fact,
I
want
us
to
do
the
opposite.
I
like
to
see
how
much
more
a
50
meter
pool
costs
to
build
and
run
compared
to
one
half
the
size
that
way
everyone
here
can
judge
for
themselves
if
the
broader
benefits
outweigh
the
extra
Financial
investment
I'd
like
us
to
take
a
proper
fee,
Undertaker
proper
feasibility
study
into
a
multi-use
stadium,
rather
than
just
dismissing
the
idea
outright
at
the
start
of
the
pro
process.
I
believe
that
we
need
to
change.
E
Our
mindset,
stop
dismissing
ideas
that
we
don't
like
and
start
acting
as
representatives
of
the
people
of
despair
error.
So,
let's
stop
coming
up
coming
up
with
reasons
why
we
can't
do
things
and
focus
our
efforts
instead
on
finding
Solutions
so
that
we
can
deliver
a
bolder,
a
more
ambitious
Leisure
part
for
our
Borough.
Let's
go
back
to
the
drawing
board
with
this
master
plan
and
put
our
local
people
first,
as
we
all
agree
just
a
couple
of
months
ago.
Thank
you.
F
Thank
you,
chairman
committee
I,
wanted
to
be
here
tonight,
because
it
was
a
unanimous
vote
of
the
council
to
review
the
master
plan
and
I
think
it
is
right
that
a
conservative
rocks
up
as
we
voted
to
do
the
same.
I
think
it
is
important
that
we
are
more
ambitious,
that
we
lay
within
the
document
how
we
can
improve
what
scrutiny
will
come
through
the
process
and
if
we
sign
contracts
of
which
we've
not
been
particularly
great
in
the
past,
that
we
get
to
review
them
even
in
close
session.
F
I
think
it
is
important
that
we
we
as
a
council,
we
don't
have
as
a
conservative,
Administration,
don't
have
a
majority
and
therefore
we
have
to
listen
to
the
views
of
every
councilor,
whether
they
are
independent
on
their
own
or
from
from
any
of
the
parties.
I
think
it
is.
It
is
vital
that
we
we
do
that
it
is
important.
Let's,
let's
say
that
we
start
with
what
we
what
we
agree.
We
want
a
better
Leisure
facilities
for
our
residents.
F
How
we
get
there
is
the
subject
for
a
debate
and
I
think
it
is
important
that
we
have
that
debate.
I
think
we
have
it
more
often
we'll
get
a
better
solution
over
time
and
I'd
like
to
quote
councilor
Isaac,
not
because
it's
to
embarrass
him,
but
just
to
emphasize
one
of
the
things
that
has
worked
against
us.
F
This
is
this
quote.
These
are
significant
early
stage
proposals
which
will
transform
our
Leisure
Park
and
deserve
to
be
considered
and
looked
at
in
more
detail.
They
amount
to
an
ambitious,
exciting
opportunity
for
the
borough
and
that
we
who
are
residents
and
future
generations
to
consider
the
Bold
Innovative
action
to
keep
the
Leisure
Park
flourishing.
A
Leisure
scheme
on
this
scale
would
really
put
the
borough
on
the
map
providing
new
facilities
that
the
people
who
live
here
deserve.
F
Unfortunately,
because
of
the
way
we've
moved
myself
included
that
quotes
from
December
2017.,
it
is
really
frightening
how
long
this
has
taken.
We
need
to
get
on
with
it
and
we
need
to
get
us
all
looking
in
the
right
direction
to
provide
the
right
facilities
that
Leisure
Park
is
decaying,
as
somebody
who
uses
it,
perhaps
more
than
most
of
the
councils
around
this
table.
It
is
a
disgrace
to
see
how
dirty
that
aquadrome
was
today.
It
is
not
right
that,
after
months
of
repairs,
one
of
the
flumes
is
still
out.
F
I
questioned
it
in
December,
it's
still
out
here
in
the
middle
of
February.
We
need
to
do
a
lot
more
more
often.
We
also
need
to
to
get
a
vision
of
things
that
will
incite,
incite
people
and
excite
people.
Why
is
there
no
nothing
in
the
master
plan
that
talks
about
an
MRT,
even
if
it's
just
from
the
Leisure
Park
to
the
stations
out
to
basing
View
and
to
Phantom
house,
you
know
if
we
could
have
something
small
there
and
build
upon
it.
F
I
think
people
would
realize
the
level
of
ambition
we've
got
and,
of
course,
if
you're
getting
people
into
the
stations,
they
can
jump
on
something
and
go
to
our
Leisure
Park
and
use
it.
We
need
people
to
use
it,
we
need
people
to
embrace
it
and
we
need
it
to
be
as
exciting
and
Innovative
as
possible.
I
hope
that
we
can.
All
of
us
achieves
quite
a
lot
of
that.
Thank
you.
A
Thank
you
and
councilor
minus
bound.
G
G
Chair
it
took
me
a
while
to
get
used
to
it
too.
So,
whilst
we
need
to
adopt
the
master
plan
to
progress
delivery,
it
needs
to
be
flexible
enough
to
respond
to
all
the
opportunities
that
are
coming
forward
to
select
the
select
the
best
mix
of
new
attractions
in
the
market
to
complement
the
existing
ones.
G
Our
Leisure
Park,
as
we
all
know,
is
well
used,
well-loved
a
place
for
the
people
of
this
Borough
and
also
for
visitors
to
relax
and
have
fun
a
word
that
we
don't
very
often
mention
in
this
local
Authority,
but
it
is
tired
and
it
needs
reworking
and
an
injection
of
new
energy
new
attractions
and
something
to
Grant
visitors.
Attention
from
miles
around
I
think
something
that
we
all
agree
on.
All
of
these
things
are
being
developed
now.
G
The
mass
plan
Builds
on
the
current
experience
of
residents
and
creates
many
more
opportunities,
both
free
and
paid
for
to
have
fun
and
become
a
Leisure
Park
for
all.
We
should
also
be
aware
that
waiting
to
implement
this
framework,
that
is
not
fixed,
only
means
a
delay
in
getting
on
with
the
job
of
improving
the
park.
I
fundamentally
believe
that
that
is
not
what
residents
want
from
this
Council.
They
want
us
to
get
on
with
delivering
the
new
Leisure
Park.
G
As
councilor
Vatican
has
said,
the
Leisure
Park
in
its
regeneration
has
been
in
the
pipeline.
Shall
we
call
it
for
some
time.
We
need
to
ensure
that
the
park
is
a
go-to
regional
draw,
which
is
what
we
all
want.
It
now
needs
modernizing.
It
needs
the
latest
leisure
activities
and
attractions.
It
needs
to
provide
that
broader
economic
value,
as
well
as
the
socio
Associates
stuff.
G
Any
delay
only
creates
an
opportunity
for
any
one
of
those
interest
parties
to
go
and
invest
elsewhere,
I
absolutely
agree
with
Mr
Peach
as
the
ward
council
that
changed
our
strategy
on
and
our
implementation
of
skate
parks
from
a
metal
frame,
one
to
a
concrete
one.
With
the
rookstown
skate
park
in
2015
in
my
election
it
was
absolutely
something
I
was
talking
about
as
far
as
having
an
indoor
skate
park,
something
that
would
be
well
used.
G
These
master
plan
does
not
exclude
that
a
climbing
wall
doesn't
exclude
that
either
we
are
yet
to
say
what
needs
to
be
inside
our
aquedron.
That
may
well
be
an
indoor
skate
park
that
may
well
be
a
climbing
wall.
These
are
all
opportunities
that
can
be
implemented
and,
in
my
view,
should
be
implemented
as
part
of
the
implementation
of
the
framework.
A
All
right,
I
now
invite
councilor
Isa
as
a
captain
cabinet
member,
to
make
a
comment.
I
Thank
you,
chair
and
good
evening
committee.
Everyone
would
it
be
helpful
if
I
introduce
some
of
the
officers
who
may
be
new
to
the
committee
and
and
also
our
consultant
yeah
so
to
my
left.
I
have
Keith
Harvey,
who
is
the
recently
appointed
interim
director
of
regeneration
to
my
right.
I
I
bought
James
Mercer
who's,
the
development
manager,
who's
been
working
on
the
Leisure
Park
project
for
some
time
now
and
then
further
to
my
right,
I've
got
Duncan
Wood
Allen
of
SLC,
who
are
Leisure
consultants
and
I,
would
urge
the
committee
to
make
full
use
of
the
vast
knowledge
that
Duncan
has
got
on
that
Marketplace.
I
Let
me
assure
committee
this
that
there
is
no
lack
of
ambition
for
spectacular
new
leisure
in
this
Borough
on
the
part
of
myself
or
this
Administration.
Quite
the
reverse,
as
will
become
evident
to
councilors
when,
as
publicly
indicated,
we'd
publish
Leisure.
Proposals
which
are
present
must
remain
confidential
ahead
of
the
next
cabinet
meeting
on
March
the
7th,
and
these
I
believe
will
be
viewed
as
hugely
positive
and
exciting
for
this
Borough
and
its
residents.
I
All
that
is
apart
from
the
planned
new
aquadrome,
which
is
specifically
located
in
terms
of
level
of
ambition.
We
should
not
forget
the
scale
of
investment
the
Administration
has
committed
to
here,
probably
in
the
region
of
30,
to
40
million
pounds
and
looking
at
the
social
and
economic
and
health
and
well-being
benefits
of
a
new
Aqua
drone,
not
just
the
bottom
line,
in
fact
not
the
bottom
line.
I
That
can
be
few
if
any
councils
able
to
fund
such
a
huge
investment
in
its
residence,
health
and
well-being
out
of
its
own
resources
at
this
difficult
time,
economically,.
I
I
understand
the
frustrations
that
absence
of
detail
can
cause,
but
realistically
counselors.
We
are
not
yet
at
the
point
of
naming
names,
but
the
framework
is
a
necessary
stage
to
giving
interested
Leisure
operators
confidence
in
us
as
partners
that
a
clear
outline
is
provided
on
how
we
intend
to
approach
selection
criteria
mix
and
the
development
process,
including
in
the
context
of
a
better
layout
of
public
space,
car
parking
and
access
for
pedestrians,
cyclists
and
vehicles
and
our
policies
on
climate,
not
least
opportunities
for
Net,
Zero
and
energy
generation.
C
I
The
setback
of
the
withdrawal
of
New
River
in
2021
and
without
a
two-year
legal
Challenge
and
then
covered,
we
could
be
celebrating
progress
on
a
new
investment
in
our
Leisure
Park
to
the
tune
of
300
million.
That's
that
that's
that's
history,
but
we've
cracked,
on
with
a
new
plan
for
the
Leisure
Park
from
early
2022,
starting
with
Consulting
residents
on
their
preferences,
which
are
reflected
throughout
the
master
plan.
I
We
don't
want
any
hold
UPS
now.
Instead,
we
want
to
get
on
with
selecting
the
best
mix
of
leisure
operators
to
suit
all
ages
of
residents
and
ones
that
will
complement
both
existing
attractions
on
the
park
and
it's
very
important
that
we
look
after
those
who
are
those
operators
already
on
the
park
and
also
equally
important
to
complement
what
is
offered
in
our
town
center
Consulting,
of
course,
on
this
process
throughout
with
counselors
and
in
particular,
eph
and
the
map
will
be
an
important
part
of
delivering
our
shared
vision.
I
In
reality,
it
is
right
that
we
avoid
the
risks
again
of
putting
all
our
eggs
in
one
basket,
with
a
single
developer,
such
as
New
River.
By
adopting
a
plot
By
plot
approach,
the
master
panning
plan
ensures
we
retain
much
greater
Council
control
and
we
can
build
direct
relationships
with
later
businesses.
I
I
thought
that's
what
councilors
wanted
equally,
it
is
right
that,
instead
of
whole
scale
Redevelopment,
we
work
with
existing
operators
on
the
Leisure
Park,
encouraging
them
to
make
new
investment,
all
of
which
is
Con
consistent
with
our
climate
change.
Objectives
of
improving
the
existing
fabric
of
buildings,
rather
than
always
new
build
I,
do
understand
the
calls
from
certain
councils
for
a
new
stadium
for
the
basic
downtown
football
club
or
a
multi-user
stadium,
or
even
a
snow
Dome,
but
unless
they
are
saying
that
they
think
these
are
must-haves
and
should
be
funded.
I
Officers
have
been
asked
to
look
into
the
skate
park
and
BMX
opportunities,
so
we
are
there's
no
closed
books
on
this.
We
want
to
bring
these
things
to
to
Basingstoke
Swindon
council's
experience
of
promoting
a
snow
Center
is
a
less
lesson
in
the
dangers
that
exist
announced
in
2012,
approved
by
Council
in
2018.
There
are
no
signs,
it
will
happen.
I
In
order
to
attempt
to
address
council's
concerns
concerns
as
fully
as
possible.
I
have
our
senior
officers
here
this
evening
to
speak
to
other
important
issues
raised
previously
ones.
You
may
wish
tonight
to
investigate
further,
such
as
car
parking
traffic,
climate
change,
the
relationship
of
the
Town
Center
and
Commercial
sensitivities,
around
disclosing
brand
identities,
and
if
I
may
I
will
invite
the
officers
to
to
speak
as
I
bring
my
remarks
to
a
conclusion.
I
So
whatever
this
committee
recommends
tonight,
for
my
part,
I
confirm
a
desire
to
work
collaboratively
with
users,
operators,
counselors
eph
and
the
map,
and
as
openly
and
as
com
as
commercial
confidences
permit
in
in
achieving
our
common
objectives.
However,
residents
I
think
will
want
to
be
reassured
that
we
will
move
forward
without
delay
and
that
the
Leisure
attractions
we
select
for
them
can
be
realistically
delivered
and
are
likely
to
flourish
and
be
self-supported
supporting
in
the
years
ahead.
A
Thank
you
right
and,
as
you
said,
it's
now
invite
Keith
Harley
and
James
Mercer
to
advise
the
committee
on
the
background
and
context
of
the
decision
and
its
importance
to
achieving
service
priorities.
J
J
So
the
master
plan
is
really
an
important
tool
to
demonstrate
to
investors,
developers
and
Leisure
operators
that
the
councils
has
a
commitment
and
intent
to
deliver
the
project,
but
at
this
stage
it
would
be
a
too
early
and
it
wouldn't
be
appropriate
to
be
prescriptive
on
the
design
because
of
the
issues
which
we've
set
out
in
relation
to
potential
Leisure
operators
leave
it
there.
Thank
you
chair,
thank.
A
You
and
to
James
Mercer
did
you
want
to
have
a
have
anything
to
say.
L
Thank
you,
I
I,
don't
think
I
have
too
much
to
add
to
what's
already
been
said
by
by
Council
rise
up
and
Keith
Harley,
but
we
do
have
obviously
further
information
to
provide
in
terms
of
the
the
specific
references
to
50
meter
pool,
Leisure,
snow,
Dome
and
and
the
sort
of
multi-use,
Arena
or
stadium
that
could
be
provided
and
then
in
sort
of
terms
to
those
uses,
I'll
probably
bring
in
Duncan,
who
is
best
place
to
be
able
to
cover
off
those
technical
issues.
H
Thank
you
chair
good
evening.
Everybody
I
thought
it
might
be
useful
just
to
address
some
of
the
the
key
issues
and
opportunities
around
the
three
key
elements
that
were
contained
within
the
call
in,
namely
the
50
meter
pool
the
snow
Dome
and
the
the
multi-use
stadium.
H
I'll
start
with
the
50
meter
pool.
If
I
may,
a
number
of
independent
studies
as
part
of
the
council's
planning
remit
have
been
undertaken
since
2015
to
explore
the
needs
for
water
space
within
Basingstoke
and
Dean
they've
been
compliant
with
national
planning
guidance
and
Sport
England's
guidance
and
General
Industry
best
practice
and
we've
independently
reviewed.
H
Clearly
the
aquadrome
is
getting
to
the
end
of
its
operational
life.
I
I
wandered
around
before
this
meeting
I
was
very
curious.
To
have
a
good
look
myself
and
and
and-
and
you
know
inside
I
think
I
think
the
team
are
doing
a
really
great
job,
keeping
it
going.
But
I
think
you
know,
there's
a
general
understanding
that
it's
getting
to
the
end
of
its
operational
life
and
it's
much
loved,
and
we
really.
H
We
really
can
see
that
the
the
more
recent
Leisure
and
Recreation
needs
assessment
again
reinforced
the
findings
of
the
2015
report.
To
say:
look,
you
can't
afford
to
lose
any
water
space
and
there
is
a
knee,
a
small
need
for
some
additional
Auto
space,
so
you're,
actually
quite
fortunate,
because
an
awful
lot
of
councils
in
the
country
don't
have
that
balance
of
water.
So
that's
been
down
to
good
strategic
planning
in
the
past.
H
The
council
then
undertook
another
study
in
in
2022
to
double
check
those
recommendations
in
terms
of
what
the
water
needs
would
be
for
a
growing
population
up
to
2040
and
they
used
a
model
called
the
sport
England
facility
facilities
planning
tool
and
that
that
accurately
assesses
taking
account
of
population
growth.
H
You
know
if,
if
residents
want
to
compete
at
a
performance
level,
they've
got
access
to
four
50
meter
pools
within
a
half
an
hour
drive
my
consultancy
Works
across
the
UK.
At
the
moment.
Most
of
my
clients,
with
50
meter
pools
quite
frankly,
wanted
to
close
them.
H
Looking
ahead,
50
meter
pools,
We
Believe
are
going
to
need
to
be
nationally
funded
by
government,
to
support
Olympic
ambition
and
performance
ambition
and
that
the
the
driver
for
swimming,
ultimately
because
of
the
additional
costs
of
providing
swimming
needs
to
be
focused
on
children's
water,
safety,
recreational
swimming
and
Leisure
swimming
for
local
residents
and,
from
our
perspective,
a
50
meter
pool
doesn't
really
fit
the
bill
that
much
it's
quite
an
intimidating
space
for
a
lot
of
people
and
can
put
off
an
awful
amount
of
recreational
swimmers.
H
So
the
emerging
recommendations
that
came
out
of
multiple
reports
that
the
council
has
commissioned,
including
the
most
recent
needs
assessment
and
our
independent
evaluation,
has
concluded
that
a
25
meter
pool
with
either
six
or
eight
Lanes,
plus
a
large
learner,
Pool
Plus
some
degree
of
leisure
water
is
absolutely
the
right
mix
for
Basingstoke
and
will
work
commercially
and
deliver
maximum
Social
and
economic
added
value.
H
So,
even
though
I
I
think
I
understand
the
point
that
was
made
about
attracting
the
university
in
if,
if
and
I
understand,
particularly
sport
provision
for
universities
is
a
key,
unique
selling
point
I
I
absolutely
get
that
the
however
who's
going
to
pay.
For
that.
You
know
the
capital
costs
and
the
revenue
costs
of
running
a
50
meter
pool
are
highly
prohibitive,
particularly
right
now
with
the
Ukraine
war,
spiking
Energy
prices
and
there's
no
guarantee
that
they're
ever
going
to
return
back
to
pre-war
levels
and
for
us
that's
a
huge
Financial
Risk.
H
If
I
can
move
on
to
the
snow,
Dome
we've
been
chatting
to
the
the
team
that
have
been
advising
the
council
around
looking
to
explore
both
nationally
and
internationally,
to
attract
the
very
best
Leisure
operators
and
very
best
investors
to
Basingstoke,
based
on
the
the
ambitious
Leisure
master
plan.
H
We've
gone
through
the
methodology
that
the
jll
and
their
specialist
advice
alleged
division
have
undertaken
to
in
in
effect,
looked
for
all
of
the
opportunities
that
are
that
are
out
there
on
all
of
the
potential
partners
that
might
be
attracted
to
come
to
Basingstoke
and
they've
done
an
incredibly
thorough
job.
They
actually
specifically
went
out
and
spoke
to
the
UK's
largest
investor
and
developer
of
snowdoms
historically
to
ask
them
the
direct
question.
H
The
the
response
was
we're
not
investing
in
snowdoms
anymore.
They
they
are
just
not
economically
feasible.
The
the
Financial
Risk
is
highly
prohibitive
from
that
developers
experience
and
perspective.
They
are
World
experts
in
this
area.
H
We've
cited
snow
domes
closing
across
Europe,
even
in
Switzerland.
At
the
moment,
it's
a
really
difficult
thing
to
make
work.
Obviously
there
are
some
pretty
significant
environmental
consequences
that
may
frustrate
your
ambition
around
Net
Zero
as
well.
I.
Think
our
viewers
is
that
the
the
attraction
factor
of
something
like
a
snow
Dome
shouldn't
be
lost,
but
a
snow
Dome
from
our
perspective
and
our
professional
perspective
isn't
a
very
good
idea.
H
If
I
could
move
on
to
the
multi-use
sports,
Stadium
we've
been
working
with
some
specialist
advisors
called
ipw
who
have
got
direct
experience
of
supporting
towns
in
developing
their
stadiums.
Their
advice
on
ice
rinks,
they
they
advise
on
multi,
multi,
Arenas
and
so
very
well
placed
to
explore
the
potential
of
a
a
multi-use
stadium
or
Arena
within
Basingstoke.
H
We
were
very
impressed
with
the
fact
that
the
council
had
actually
gone
away
and
done
quite
a
lot
of
work
to
explore
the
the
footprint
of
different
size,
multi-use
stadiums
and
also
the
capital
cost
of
building
them.
Based
on
today's
build
prices
and
I
think
they've
been
included
within
the
report
and
and
they're
quite
significant.
H
We,
we
then
looked
at
obviously
the
football
club's
position
within
the
league
structure,
its
current
performance
around
the
number
of
fans,
it's
attracting
to
its
to
its
Gates,
and
obviously
it's
doing
quite
well
in
the
league
out
here
at
the
moment,
which
is
absolutely
fantastic.
But
but
we
we
need
to
be
realistic
here
that
I
think
within
within
the
the
call
in
we're.
Looking
at
a
you
know,
fairly
significant
Arena
that
could
attract.
For
example,
concert
outdoor
concerts
are
professional.
H
Experts
have
said
that
they
they
think
that
a
5
000,
seater
Stadium,
which
would
be
an
outdoor
stadium,
would
probably
only
attract
about
two
concerts
a
year,
because
it's
competing
with
all
of
the
all
of
the
festivals
that
are
happening
at
the
time
and
promoters,
quite
frankly,
will
want
to
go
elsewhere,
but
I
want
to
go
to
Southampton
already
or
you've
got
a
greater
capacity
or
they'll
want
to
go
into
an
indoor
arena
with
again
similar
or
greater
capacity.
H
So
our
experts
have
told
us
that
there's
no
real
market
for
a
a
venue
that
could
provide
a
football
club
with
a
pitch
and
then
you
board
it
over
and
then
you
you'd
hold
concerts.
It
just
would
not
stack
up.
It
would
need
huge
amounts
of
public
subsidy
in
order
to
work
and
and
that
wouldn't
necessarily
guarantee
anybody
would
want
to
put
on
a
show
there.
The
risk
would
sit
with
the
football
club.
It
would
probably
I
fear
make
the
football
club
insolvent.
H
You
know
there
are
a
tale
of
multiple
issues
around
joint
ventures
between
councils
and
football
clubs
and
rugby
clubs
across
the
country.
Even
the
London
Stadium,
the
Olympic
Stadium,
you
know
that's
costing
the
public
eight
million
pounds
a
year
to
to
run,
even
even
with
a
Premier
League
Football
Club
in
situ.
H
Those
of
you
that
follow
the
rugby
might
have
heard
of
the
issue
that
wasps
have
had
at
Coventry
in
the
RICO
Stadium
or
formerly
the
RICO
Stadium.
You
know
that
that's
been
a
a
consistent
failure
and
and
has
led
to
significant
public
losses
in
Huddersfield.
The
council
is,
is
has
been
left
with
a
very
difficult
situation
to
deal
with.
So
what
we're
saying?
It's,
it's
not
impossible.
H
M
Monov
is
a
straightforward
question
as
normal.
Why
have
we
got
into
this
position
and
it's
to
counselor
Isaac?
It
seems
strange
to
me
that
everybody's
saying
they're,
not
the
things
they
want,
the
things
they
don't
want
and
everything
else
you've
had
the
Professionals
in,
but
you
haven't
brought
any
counselors
along
with
you
or
not
I.
Just
wonder
what
the
what
is
going
wrong
in
as
much
as
this
hasn't
suddenly
come
up.
We've
had
the
new
Rural
Water.
It
was
caught
last
time
very
controversial.
M
If
you
remember
rightly
at
the
time
now-
and
this
seems
to
be
this
divide
now-
that
we
as
counselors
will
say
we
because
I'm
a
backbencher
the
same
as
the
rest
of
them.
We
seem
to
be
left
out
in
the
loop
until
you
suddenly
decide
at
some
stage
you're
going
to
let
us
in
on
the
secrets.
We
don't
have
any
papers.
Some
are
sensitive
and
I
do
accept
that
we
can't
have
everything,
but
we
don't
seem
to
be
going
forward.
We
don't
seem
to
be
saying
what
is
the
problem.
M
I
might
say:
I
want
something
ridiculous,
like
a
mountain
built
there
and
we'll
have
rock
climbing.
You
know,
that's
me
as
an
individual
other
individuals
in
in
our
Council
or
say
something
else,
and
we've
got
to
assess
what
we
need
and
across
the
borough,
where,
where
are
we
falling
down
because
I
I,
don't
honestly
believe
it's
just
about
Leisure
Center
before
we,
the
Leisure
Park
I,
think
some
of
the
stuff
that's
happening
in
albera
for
sports
has
been
gradually
traveling
and
why
I
don't
know
we
don't
get
that
involved
unless
you're
involved
with
the
clubs.
M
There's
lots
of
things
coming
up.
That
sort
of
you
know
gymnastics,
for
instance,
they
want
to
expand.
They
can't
they
haven't,
got
the
facilities
for
this
and
that
these
are
the
things
that
people
are
worried
about
and
that
comes
back
to
us
as
counselors
and
also
you
know
you
talk
about
the
ice
hockey
I
was
on
CP.
Well,
it
was
how
many
years
we
were
talking
about
that
it
was
a
lot
of
work
done
by
the
council,
but
we
haven't
actually
progressed
it
any
further.
M
It
wouldn't
be
from
scrutiny
because
I
normally
share
that,
but
it
should
be
CP,
so
we
actually
take
ownership
of
what
we
want.
So
it's
actually
getting
into
a
committee
to
say
what
we
actually
want
as
a
council
and
as
counselors.
It
goes
back
to
the
cabinet
and
the
cabinet
then
can
just
you
know.
If
there's
a
load
of
nonsense,
tell
us
it's
another
announce
it's
not
feasible,
but
that's
what
counselors
want
I
think
and
I'll
leave
it
at
that.
I
Yeah
I
think
you,
you
raised
an
interesting
point
and,
and
it's
it's
that's
problem
communication
here-
isn't
that
I
think
I
think
there's
also
an
issue
that,
because
phasingstoke
being
an
ambitious
Place
with
Council,
that's
got
strong
finances.
A
lot
of
counselors
understandably
want
the
best
for
residents
and
I
I'm
on
side
with
that
entirely,
but
but
sometimes
their
aspirations
may
be
unrealistic
and
I.
Think
what
we
heard
tonight
from
Duncan
was
pretty
compelling
about.
I
You
know
what
the
real
world
is
like
for
snow
domes.
What
the
real
world
is
like
from
for
for
multi-use,
sports
stadiums
and
thought,
50
50
meter
pools,
sometimes
I
get
the
feeling
that
doesn't
matter
how
many
times
one
actually
says
this:
it's
just
the
message
isn't
isn't
received
and
doesn't
want
to
be
heard.
Now.
I
We've
got
a
map
a
member's
advisory
panel
and
and
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
the
Consultants
have
been
participating
in
that,
but
again
I,
don't
I,
don't
get
a
sense
that
members
on
the
map
are
particularly
recognize
that
that
we
do
need
to
work
in
within
the
real
world
in
what
we
deliver
here
and
the
real
world
I.
Would
I
would
say
is
going
to
be
incredibly
exciting
for
us,
it
may
not
be
a
snow
Dome.
I
It
may
not
be
a
multi-use
sports
Stadium,
it
might
not
be
a
50
meter
pool
we're
all
looking
at
those
we
haven't.
We
haven't
sort
of
put,
we
haven't
put
those
to
one
side,
but
there
will
be
other
things
that
will
be
coming
forward.
But
again
when
you're,
when
you're
you're
having
direct
discussions
with
some
of
the
the
leading
Leisure
operators,
they're
very
very
concerned
that
that,
where
they're
going
are
either
heading
for
Basingstoke
isn't
something
that's
transmitted
into
their
Marketplace.
I
And
so
we
do
have
to
respect
that
and
we
I
want
to
share
as
soon
as
possible
some
of
the
the
names
that
we're
talking
to
and
we
have
identified
when
we're
going
through
that
process
and
that's
why
I
said
that
we'll
be
making
a
a
major
announcement
if
all
goes
to
Planet
cabinet
in
in
next
month
and
I,
think
that
will
demonstrate
Beyond,
Reasonable
Doubt,
just
how
ambitious
we
are
as
a
as
a
council
on
an
Administration
quickly.
M
It
sounds
really
good,
but
the
truth
is
and
I'll
I'm
not
on
the
map
that
it
happened,
but
some
of
my
colleagues
having
the
feedback
I've
got
I
basically
feel
this
they've
been
ignored.
Most
of
it
now
I've
been
and
I've
just
finished,
I've
been
around
quite
a
while.
You
know
I
wonder,
what's
gone
wrong.
I
said
it
earlier.
We
built
the
Anvil
years
ago,
big
debate
over
that
we
want.
M
I
was
on
the
side
that
wanted
a
24
whatever,
so
we
ended
up
with
a
14,
but
we
actually
got
there
by
in
the
end,
because
we
actually
talked
about
it
and
what's
happening
now
we
don't
talk
about
it.
It
goes
to
the
cabinet,
it's
the
system
we
got
now.
If
we
like
it,
we
don't,
but
we
need
more
Communications,
because
all
you're
gonna
all
you're
gonna
get
Is
My
Idea
people
down
the
end's
idea,
because
we
haven't
been
actually
talking
about
it
publicly
and
the
public
wants
to
know.
M
You
know:
we've
got
a
nice
ring
as
I
say.
That
was
really
big
public
news.
As
you
know,
you
went
through
hell
for
it
if
I
remember
rightly
through
some
of
the
questionnaires
what's
thrown
at
you
at
the
time,
but
that
sort
of
died.
It's
deaf
people
out
there
are
fairly
well.
No,
they
do
what
they're
going
to
do.
What
is
the
point?
We
as
counselors
think
well,
no
we're
not
going
to
let
it
get
away
with
it.
You
know,
get
your
act
together
off
and
turn
it
straight.
M
I
Yeah
I
think
I
think
we're
not
we're
not
always
going
to
agree.
Are
we?
But
there
is
a
lot
in
private
with
the
map.
There's
a
lot
of
agreement.
It's
it's
it's.
When
things
speak,
unpublic,
it's
it's
perhaps
there's
less,
but
I!
Think
tonight
it's
been
very
useful
in
in
sort
of
bringing
out
some
of
the
issues
that
we've
got
as
decision
makers
to
take
on
board
when
we
decide
on
things.
But
you
know
that
that
can
we
not
not
forget
that
this
is
a
council.
I
This
is
an
Administration
that
is
has
decided.
It
wants
to
spend
between
30
and
40
million
pounds
on
a
new
aquedron
for
the
residents
and
a
lot
of
the
the
the
the
the
Leisure
operators
that
are
talking
to
us
currently
about
Leisure
Park.
We
want
to
get
on
with
it
and
and
bring
forward
their
names
and
share
those
with
counselors
and
and
I.
I
Think
if
we,
if
we
have
a
positive
approach
to
this
I
know
it's
it's
it's
it's
frustrating
I
understand
we
had
we
lost
three
years,
didn't
we
with
New,
River
and
and
okay.
If
we
could
rewrite
history,
one
would
do,
but
it
happened.
We
had
a
legal
Challenge
and
then
we
had
covid,
and
these
things
happen.
You
know
we're
all
sort
of
people
of
the
world.
These
things
happen,
but
we
are
moving
as
quickly
forward
as
possible
and
I'm.
I
Confident
that
the
progress
we
will
make
over
the
ensuing
months
will
will
give
you
the
sort
of
reassurance
that
we
are.
We
are
we
mean
business.
N
A
N
Chair,
it's
interesting,
isn't
it
that
it
takes
this
kind
of
conversation
around
this
table
to
to
get
to
these
sorts
of
things
coming
out
and
that's
perhaps
a
reflection
that
we
need
to
have.
Why
has
it
taken
a
call
in
to
a
scrutiny
meeting
to
get
this
kind
of
conversation
that
might
well
have
taken
place
in
the
map,
but
those
map
members
feel
frustrated
about.
So
there
is
an
issue
here:
a
process
there's
an
issue
we
hear
of
how
this
Authority
goes
about
its
business.
So
members
do
feel
inclusive.
N
You
don't
feel
frustrated
as
a
Cabinet
member.
We
don't
feel
frustrated
about
Ventures,
so
that
needs
to
be
taken
away.
It
needs
to
be
taken
away
and
thought
through.
It
doesn't
yeah.
Quite
so,
I
think
there's
there's
a
number
of
things
that
fall
out
and
I
just
like
to
explore
the
video.
If
I,
could
it's
interesting
how
the
language
it's
against
semantics,
but
semantics
are
important
because
you're
trying
to
convey
things
and
communicate
things
not
just
to
us
but
to
residents.
N
So
when
does
the
master
plan
a
framework?
Where
does
the
framework
a
master
plan
and
what
is
the
definition
of
the
two
in
terms
of
being
clear
about?
Actually
what
you
mean
you
mean,
because
either
things
are
open
to
suggestions
if
it
feeds
50,
meter,
pool
and
other
things
that
people
want
or
they're,
not
because
you've
got
operators
that
are
already
negotiating
with
you
to
take
plots
and
it's
a
plot,
By
plot
process.
So
is
it
a
master
plan
that
has
the
plots
in
place
that
relates
to
those
particular
operators?
N
Who
knows
I,
don't
know
the
answer
to
that?
If
it
isn't,
where
do
those
other
things
fit
into
the
equation?
Where
does
the
door
get
closed?
Does
the
positioning
of
the
aquadrome
on
that
particular
plot
rule
out
other
things?
Where
does
that
fit
in
all
of
this?
Those
sorts
of
conversations
are
really
important,
but
the
point
of
them
is
when
is
the
framework
set
in
stone
and
when
is
it
what
you
think
you
say
it
is,
which
is
that
it
is
open
to
flexibility
and
discussion.
N
I
think
that's
an
important
point
just
to
flesh
out
I
keep
hearing
this
bit
and
again.
We
might
disagree
on
this.
We
might
have
a
different
Nuance
to
this.
The
market
leads.
The
market
leads
to
an
extent
it
does,
but
the
borough
has
to
represent
his
residence
and
have
a
sense
of
ambition
for
those
residents
of
the
things
they
want
to
see
and
feel
and
I.
Think
that
has
to
be
part
of
the
equation
too.
It
cannot
just
be
here
is
the
market,
and
this
is
what
it
gives
us.
N
We
need
to
shape
that
and
the
process
of
shaping
that
I
think
is
really
important.
To
try
to
understand.
I.
Remember
when
councilor
Tate
signed
the
New
River
deal
against
the
advice
that
he
was
given.
He
went
ahead
and
did
it
anyway,
and
we
were
screwed
for
seven
years
because
of
the
process
that
went
through
New
River.
It
was
a
mess
from
top
to
bottom.
Seven
years
later,
the
aquadrome
is
on
its
knees
because
it
hasn't
had
the
capital.
Investment
in
this
councils
had
to
put
its
hand
in
his
pocket
to
keep
it
going.
N
The
ice
rink,
the
same
and
I
feel
for
those
users,
I
feel
for
all
those
people
who
care
about
those
facilities
and
they're
critical
parts
of
this
equation
too.
What's
going
to
happen
to
the
Bowls
Club,
that's
a
question
and
a
half
as
well,
because
I
get
a
site
off-site.
Where
are
they
looked
after
in
all
of
this?
It's
all
part
of
this.
It's
a
so
that's
the
notion
of
where
the
market
rests
of
leading
this
and
where
this
council's
responsibility
is
to
lead
for
the
residents
as
well.
I.
N
Think
that's
important
and
I'd
like
to
understand
that
a
little
bit
more
then
I
think
there's
an
interesting
point
around.
You
are
right
about
your
30
to
40
million
of
investing
in
the
aqua
drone,
but
it's
what's
going
to
be
in
the
aquadrome.
What
shape
and
form
does
the
aquadrome
take
going
forward
and
how
members
can
be
part
of
that
process
and
that
just
presented
with
effective
company?
N
This
is
what
we
think
the
aquadrome
is
going
to
be
and
then
finally
I
think
there
is
a
sense
of
great
to
hear
you've
got
an
announcement
coming
look
forward
to
hearing
whatever
that
is
when
it's
announced,
but
in
the
context
of
it
again
it's
this
little
bit
of.
Where
are
the
members
involved
in
this?
Where
is
that
relationship
of
you've
got
these
really
exciting
things?
That's
great,
and
you
know
you're
an
outside
of
the
cabinet
meeting,
we're
all
coming
along
to
the
cabinet
meeting
and
hear
what
you've
got
to
say.
N
Actually,
the
last
cabinet
meeting,
and
admittedly
it
was
difficult
because
you
weren't
there
and
respect
that,
but
there
was
a
sense
of
the
decision
being
taken
within
five
minutes.
Here's
the
motion
we've
dealt
with
that
his
councilor
Mike
minus
Brown,
making
the
announcement
on
your
behalf
reading
out
your
statement
and
five
minutes.
The
process
is
all
over
and
done
with
and
we're
straight
into
getting
on
with
it
that
didn't
show
respect,
I,
think
from
the
cabinet
to
back
benches
could
raise
those
concerns
and
that
I
think
infuriated
people.
You.
O
N
N
Why
I
think
we're
here
this
evening
just
to
try
to
get
underneath
some
of
this
to
understand
it
better
and
hopefully
join
you
on
the
journey
that
you're
taking,
because
we
want
to
be
on
that
Journey
too,
but
we've
got
to
have
confidence
in
you
and
confidence
in
it.
The
master
plan,
the
framework,
whatever
you
want
to
call
it
to
do
that.
So
if
I
can
explore
those
bits
with
you,
just
those
three,
maybe
core
areas,
the
market
element
who's
leading
who
the
framework
master
plan.
Just
how
flexible
is
it?
N
I
Thank
you,
councilor
Harvey,
I
I.
Do
think
that
the
there
needs
to
be
an
underst.
It
would
be
helpful
if
there
was
more
understanding
that
a
lot
of
these
are
outline
decisions
that
are
taken
and
that,
as
the
leader
pointed
out
at
the
cabinet
meeting,
there's
a
lot
more
work
that
is
going
to
take
place.
A
lot
more
consultation
before
final
decisions
are
taken
and
and
and
clearly
that
that
there
isn't
a
sort
of
shared
understanding
of
of
quite
where
what
what?
I
What
what
what
we're
approving
it
is
a
framework
it
doesn't
set
out,
doesn't
seek
to
set
out
counts,
set
out
the
the
detail,
and
so
there's
more
work.
For
instance,
going
on
on
the
mix
of
uses
that
there
will
be
in
the
aquadrome.
We've
got
a
Duncan's
company,
giving
us
further
advice
on
that
and
in
particularly
in
the
context
of
much
greater
cost
of
energy,
which
has
to
be
taken
into
account.
I
So
you'll.
Forgive
me,
my
memories
about
New,
River
and
councilor
Tate
naughty,
not
to
ignore,
ignore,
ignoring
ignoring
advice
and
that
it
was
seven
years
ago
is,
is
not
it's
not
the
one?
It's
not
just.
It's
not
my
memory
of
it,
but
but
anyway,
yes,.
P
I
Yeah
so,
and
but
a
serious
point
about
the
balance
between
the
market
and
the
role
that
we
have
as
a
council
absolutely
correct,
you
know,
I
think
the
starting
point
does
need
to
be
that
we're
dealing
with
people
who
are
in
business
understand
how
Leisure
works
and.
J
I
We
have
an
opportunity,
I
think
we're
in
a
fortune
position
of
selecting
competing
Leisure
attractions
for
for
the
Leisure
Park
and
therefore
I
see
our
role
as
getting
getting
making
sure
we
get
the
right
balance,
that's
going
to
serve
all
ages,
families
and
and
of
residents,
and
and
and
will
support
what
we're
trying
to
do
in
the
Town
Center
in
terms
of
regeneration
of
the
town
center.
And
that's
where
the
advice
comes
in
from
from
our
Property
Consultants
and
our
Leisure
Consultants
But.
I
We
have
a
broader
responsibility
and
I'm
clear
about
that,
and-
and
so
if
I
could
reassure
on
that
point,
so
I
I
I
there's
clearly
something
of
a
gap
of
understanding
and
and
I
I
hope
that
okay,
it's
if
it
takes
this
this
session
tonight,
to
to
help
to
to
close
that
Gap.
That's
that's
for
the
good
and
we
we
need
to
look
at
how
we
can
improve
things
in
the
future.
I
But
there's
always
going
to
be
a
an
issue
that
that
that
we
can't
share
all
the
information
as
early
as
as
we
perhaps
might
all
like
to
share
it,
and
there
has
to.
We
do
have
to
recognize
that
there
is
there
is
there
are
commercial
confidences
at
stake
here
and
and
so,
but
but
we
will
endeavor
to
to
do
what
what
what's
best
overall
for
our
residents
and
take
on
board
our
responsibilities
to
to
our
fellow
counselors.
A
Thank
you
and
councilor
talk.
Q
Thank
you.
I'd
certainly
like
to
thank
cancer
Isaac
for
facilitating
contact
with
my
residents.
I
had
someone
who
has
technical
know-how
on
heat
exchange
between
ice
drinks
and
swimming
pools
and
he's
been
very
helpful,
putting
them
in
touch
with
the
right
people,
and
similarly
also
with
residents
that
are
engaged
with
me
regarding
climbing
walls.
So
thank
you
for
that
and
I
think
we
are
pursuing
looking
at
driving
some
meetings
with
some
potential
operators.
Q
I
think
I've
heard
some
explanations
that
nothing
is
potentially
excluded,
but
I
would
like
to
understand
a
bit
more
about.
How
do
we
go
about
progressing
other
ideas?
What
is
the
process
going
to
be
now
for
selecting
this?
We've
had
some
great
ideas
from
some
of
our
speakers.
I'm
quite
sure
everybody
else
has
residents
champing
at
the
bits
dying
to
get
stuck
in
and
I
would
like
to
know
how
we
engage
more
directly.
I
I
really
want
us
to
be
going
for.
Q
This
I
had
a
very
interesting
conversation
today
with
the
contracts
manager
for
the
Leisure
Park
at
Winchester,
City
Council
I,
looked
at
that
50
meter
pool
and
I
thought.
Why
can't
we
have
one?
Q
It's
not
something
I
personally
feel
strongly
about,
but
I
thought,
let's
look
into
this
and
what
she
had
to
say
was
fascinating
and
it
was
not
what
I
expected
her
to
say
and
I
I
mean
I
could
tell
you
that
the
build
cost
was
43
million
pounds
and
that
just
opened
last
year
the
tender
said
very
clearly
and
specifically
make
us
a
million
pounds
a
year
and
don't
put
your
bid
in
if
you
can't
I'd
be
fascinated
to
see.
Q
They've
had
not
have
been
operating
a
year,
but
it'd
be
interesting
to
see
whether
that
has
become
a
reality.
Given
the
changes
of
late,
but
more
interestingly,
on
how
much
the
50
meter
element
of
the
pool
is
used.
She
said
excluding
Galas
and
swim.
England
events
less
than
10
of
the
total
throughputs
are
there
specifically
for
the
50
meter
pool
95
of
the
lane.
Q
Swim
is
in
a
25
meter
pool,
so
they
have
a
two
meter
thing
that
pops
up
in
the
middle
and
gives
you
two
shorter
pools,
and
that
is
how
they
use
it.
The
majority
of
the
time
and
approximately
one
hour
a
day
the
Boom
is
down
to
give
you
your
50
meters
and
I.
Think
that's
where
you
need
to
wait.
We
need
to
weigh
up.
Is
that
what
we
feel
is
the
best
mix,
and
we
have
to
remember
that
whilst
Galas
and
swimmingland
give
you
Kudos
and
that's
what
they
wanted,
the
council
decided.
Q
We
want
that
wow
factor.
We
want
an
architect
designed
pool
setting
Etc,
which
has
had
its
complications
and
I
can
tell
you
about
that
another
time,
but
it
was
very
intriguing
and
learning
for
somebody.
Who's
been
through
putting
in
two
Leisure
centers
was
very
interesting.
Piles
of
wisdom
together,
I
think.
The
other
other
angle
was
that
it
was
just
a
lot
of
the
people
there.
They
wanted
the
wow
factor
and
they
had
financed
it.
That's
what
I
was
going
to
tell
you.
Q
They
financed
it
by
Capital
borrowing
over
30
years,
I'm
told
of
which
Winchester
University
put
in
15
million
the
PIN
to
trust,
1
million
and
HCC
put
in
I'm
I'm
afraid
it
was.
The
rosary
amount
not
enough
to
get
their
logo
on
it,
but
but
but
the
university
the
the
draw
there
was
they
effectively
bought
their
time
in
the
pool
and
said
certain
amounts
of
time
that
they
are
it's
closed
to
the
public
or
they
they
take
over
a
cent
man
to
the
pool
which
might
be
a
factor
for
us.
Q
If
we're
looking
at
drawing
academic
establishments
here
and
again,
obviously,
if
you're
doing
50
meat
swimming
with
Galas,
that
is
time.
The
pool
is
closed
to
Residence,
and
it's
that
pyramid
I
know
it's
lovely
to
have
the
Pinnacle
of
achievements
and
all
the
rest.
And
how
much
does
that
inspire
people
to
get
stuck
into
swimming
but
then,
what's
the
reality
of
actually
most
of
our
residents?
We
live
in
an
island
nation.
You
just
need
to
learn
to
swim
and
have
some
fun.
Q
You
know
so
I
think
it's
getting
that
balance
and
I'm
sure
you're
well
placed
look
into
that,
but
I
think
we
also
want
to
make
some
of
that
judgment
call
about.
Do
we
want
the
gold
standard,
or
do
we
want
to
accept
that?
Actually
we
want
to
meet.
Perhaps
what
is
more?
People's
need
more
of
the
time.
H
Thank
you
thank
you,
chair
and,
and
thank
you.
Councilor
took
yeah
really
enjoyed
your
contribution.
Just
there,
I
think
you've
highlighted
some
really
important
issues,
and,
and
and
and
you
have
got
a
wealth
of
research
that
the
council's
commissioned
over
the
last
seven
years
to
to
support
you
in
in
navigating
some
of
the
the
choices
that
that
you
have
around.
Where
you
invest
your
money.
I
think
one
really
important
thing
to
to
note
is
that
there
is
a
significant
shift
in
thinking
in
public
sector
Leisure.
H
Now
we've
been
heavily
involved
with
that
in
terms
of
the
the
focus
traditionally
was
on
building
Sport
and
Leisure
facilities,
quite
frankly
for
white
middle
class
people,
and
when
you
looked
at
who
used
public
sector
Leisure
facilities
in
the
main,
it
was
white,
middle
class
people
and
it
actually
was
enhancing
the
inequalities
of
those
communities
that
couldn't
afford
or
couldn't
access
or,
quite
frankly,
weren't
interested
in
in
participating
in
what
you
typically
call
wet
and
dry
leisure.
H
The
government
sports
agency
sport
England,
has
now
recognized
that,
and
they
are
looking
to
support
the
public
sector
in
in
pivoting
its
focus
more
around
well-being
of
communities
which
doesn't
throw
throw
out
skate
parks.
It
includes
skate
parks
because
of
the
inclusion
element
and
the
youth
element
and
the
support
around
mental
health
and
the
fact
that
all
the
research
is
saying
that
less
young
people
actually
want
to
take
part
in
formal
sport.
H
You
know:
we've
just
undertaken
some
research
for
sport
Wales
recently,
which
has
reinforced
that
so
I
think
some
of
the
points
from
the
audience
were
very
very
well
made
around.
You
know
not
not
seeing
the
needs
of
Basingstoke
Through
The
Eyes
of
a
50
year
old.
You
know
you
need
to
see
the
it
through
the
the
eyes
of
of
every
age
group
that
you
want
to
to
have
a
happy
and
healthy
and
engaged
life.
So
so,
coming
back
to
the
point
around
the
50
meter
pool
you've
already
got
an
awful
lot
of
hard
work.
H
That's
been
done
that
that's
that's!
The
methodologies
are
absolutely
spot
on
and
I
think
you've
you've
hit
the
nail
on
the
head
around.
You
know.
If
you
build
a
50
meter
pool,
it
will
be
for
an
absolute
minority
of
people
that
benefit
and
and
the
capital
cost
of
that
extra
25
meters
and
the
extra
seating
and
the
extra
plant
and
the
extra
footprint
is
not
insignificant
and
with
the
significant
amount
of
money
that
you
are
prepared
to
invest
30
40
million
as
I
understand
it,
which
is
you
know,
very
rare.
H
It
is
what
was
recommended
before
the
Ukraine
energy
crisis
still
going
to
work
still
going
to
meet
people's
needs,
and
in
many
cases
it's
not
so
questions
about
how
much
Leisure
water
do.
You
include
in
the
aquadrome
need
to
be
explored
again,
the
actual
amount
of
water
space
to
be
provided
and
and
the
format
of
the
Swing
pulls
needs
to
be
Revisited
again
and
that
works
underway
to
come
back
with
some
balanced
arguments
as
to
what
what
will
hopefully
best
meet
residents
needs.
H
H
However,
looking
looking
at
what
what
you
really
want
to
achieve
and
who
you
want
to
achieve
it,
for
particularly
those
people
that
have
lower
disposable
incomes,
would
be
a
really
good
starting
point,
particularly
around
water
safety
and
around
swimming
for
health,
which
is
increasingly
going
to
be
really
important
for
people.
You've
got
an
aging
population
as
well,
and
people
love
swimming.
You
can
keep
keep
swimming
until
you
know
right
to
the
end
of
life,
and
so
that's
an
important
investment
yeah.
J
Thank
you,
so
master
plan
versus
framework
on
try
and
give
a
best
answer.
I
can
on
this
one
it's
probably
best
to
try
and
explain
the
process
from
from
here.
So
what
the
council
would
want
to
avoid
is
individual
operators
Leisure
operators
applying
for
planning
permission
in
a
very,
very
peace
meal
process?
J
What
we
would
want
to
do
is
to
work
with
our
colleagues
in
planning
colleagues
to
adopt
a
more
holistic
approach
to
the
whole
Leisure
Park,
so
that
we
can
look
at
the
synergies
around
different
plots
working
together,
potentially
in
relation
to
Energy
Efficiency,
the
sustainability
agenda,
travel
plans,
transport
assessments
and
detailed
design
codes.
So
inevitably,
what
will
come
out
of
that
to
some
degree
will
be
a
change
in
or
an
amendment
in
terms
of
design.
J
So
it's
that
type
of
approach
which
which
means
that
the
framework
or
master
plan
as
it
sits
now,
cannot
be
set
in
stone
because
of
those
factors.
Because
of
the
benefits
and
the
holistic
approach,
they
will
slightly
change
and
the
points
that
was
made
in
relation
to.
How
do
you
choose
operators
or
what's
the
process,
so
there
has
been
a
marketing,
a
direct
marketing
and
indirect
marketing
campaign
so
that
our
Leisure
operators
that
have
expressed
an
interest
in
in
terms
of
who
do
you
select
it?
J
It
comes
back
a
bit
to
the
point
that
the
councilor
raised
where
your
residents
have
have
made
contacts.
We've
set
up
a
meeting,
we're
looking
to
explore
what
opportunities
can
be
taken
forward
and
I.
Think
that's
that's
the
way
we
would
work,
but
we
have
to
be
mindful
of
being
inundated
with
a
number
of
different
Leisure
operators
who
want
different
types
of
operation
and
how
that
could
have
an
impact
on
the
Town
Center
going
forward.
J
And
so
there
has
been
a
matrix
designed
by
the
property
agents
jll,
which
sets
out
a
criteria
for
the
type
of
operators
that
might
suit
the
Leisure
Park
or
may
suits
Town
Center
or
an
alternative
location,
and
that's
based
on
value.
L
I
I
believe
it
was
I
saw
a
cabinet
briefing,
so
it
wasn't
a
public
committee
or
such,
but
it
was
a
discussing.
J
P
J
That's
that
Matrix
scoring
would
be
the
way
that
we
would
look
to
try
and
differentiate
which
operators
would
go
where,
but
that
would
be
in
consultation.
Looking
at
robust
Financial
business
plans
as
well.
Q
Oh
No
Just,
except
to
say
that
obviously
I
wanted
to
go
yes,
rather
than
just
you
know
the
marketing
the
mail
shot
that
everyone
gets
too
many
of,
and
it's
just
put
one
side
and
I
just
think
you
know
what
this
is
our
moment
to
to
Really,
promote
Basingstoke
and
to
really
up
our
game
and
raise
the
bar.
A
Oh
sorry,
did
you
put
your
hand
up
so.
R
R
But
thank
you
chair
and
thank
you
for
this
call
in
I
am
finding
it
really
interesting
tonight
and
I've
heard
so
many
concerns
from
residents
in
the
Press
from
other
counselors
and
to
me
the
issue
is
communication.
The
information
is
there,
the
research
has
been
done
and
you
know
just
listening
to
Duncan
tonight.
Listen
to
his
rationale.
That's
why
we
kind
of
a
why
50
meter
pause,
not
practical.
The
experiences
from
other
councils
is
really
really
interesting
and
before
I
came
here
tonight,
I
looked
at
the
consultation.
R
I
looked
at
the
feedback
and
people
our
residents
were
saying:
I
want
a
50
meter
pool
I
want
a
valid
drone.
I
want
a
snow,
Dome
and
I
want
a
stadium
and
the
not
official
communication,
but
the
communication
about
going
back
to
residences.
No,
no,
no
and
that's
all
we
hear
is
no,
but
actually
there's
a
real
reason.
Why
it's
a
no
and
it's
not
because
we're
being
tight,
we
don't
want
to
spend
the
money
or
because
we
just
can't
be
bothered
it's
because
it's
not
feasible
and
it's
not
the
best
for
the
residents.
R
Long
term
I
think
we
really
really
need
to
communicate
that,
but
I
also
feel
even
tonight
I'm
getting
mixed
messages,
so
I've
got
documents,
saying
a
draft
master
plan
and
then
I'm
hearing
it's
not
a
master
plan,
it's
a
framework
and
then
I'm
also
hearing
nothing's
off
the
table,
but
realistically
we're
not
going
to
get
a
50
meter
pool
so
I
think
we
really
need
to
set
residents
expectations
to
say
it's
not
realistic,
and
for
me
now,
if
a
Leisure
operator
comes
forward
and
says
I
can
give
you
a
50
meter,
call
to
me
that's
a
massive
red
flag,
and
that
is
a
concern.
R
How
are
they
going
to
do
it?
Why
are
they
going
to
do
it?
Why
are
they
going
to
invest
this
money
when
actually
research
shows
it's
not
a
very
good
thing
to
do,
and
I
also
think
that
we
need
to
look
at
30
to
40
million
pounds.
That's
a
lot
of
money.
I'd
be
quite
happy.
Somebody
gave
me
30
million,
but
in
the
terms
of
a
Leisure
Park.
What
is
that
going
to
get
I
have
no
idea
at
all.
R
I
have
no
idea
why
we've
reached
that
amount
of
money,
it
sounds
very
generous.
Is
it
isn't
it
and
why
I
think
we
need
to
look
at
and
I
would
say
just
picking
up
on
the
holistic
approach.
I
agree
with
it,
but
it's
very
difficult
for
us
tonight
to
make
a
decision
on
whether
or
not
we
progress
forward
with
these
plans,
because
if
we've
got
an
announcement
next
month
we
don't
know
what
it
is.
R
You
know
I
think
Duncan's
done
a
fantastic
job
and
I
think
you
know
his
research
does
need
to
be
put
into
the
public
domain,
because
not
everybody's
going
to
be
watching
this
meeting.
Not
everybody
knows
this
meeting's
taking
place
and
you've
got
very
good
arguments,
so
you
completely
swayed
me
so
well
done
for
that.
Yeah
just
communication
is
vital
and
I
just
don't
think
we're
getting
the
fundamental
Basics
out
at
the
moment.
Thank
you.
E
I
I
think
you're
right
about
communication,
but
but
what
I
would
say
is
that
the
there's
been
a
lot
of
voices.
I
Who've
urged
us
to
look
at
multi-use
sports,
Stadium,
a
snow
Dome,
a
50
meter
pool,
and
so
we
we
listened
to
that,
and
we
we
respond
to
that
and
we
have
we've.
We.
We
have
spent
a
lot
of
time
looking
at
those
what
what
is
the
art
of
the
possible
with
those,
because
we
don't
want
to
be
accused
of
of
ignoring
it.
But
we
are
now
now
that
we've
we've
we've
approved
a
framework,
a
master
plan.
I
We
are
now
moving
into
the
stage
where
those
decisions
will
need
to
be
taken
and
I.
Think
tonight
has
been
useful
in
perhaps
some
giving
expert
guidance
on
on.
Why
some
of
these
perfectly
understandable
aspirations
for
a
snow
damage,
difficult
have
have
been
so
strongly
voiced,
but
really
are
not
realistic
and
and
but
but
there
are
some
very
attractive,
Leisure
operations
that
that
are
going
to
be
coming
forward,
as
as
we
we
hope
to
be
able
to
disclose
quite
soon
so
I
think
we.
I
We
are
at
that
point
now
where
this
decisions
will
have
to
be
taken
and
we
need.
We
need
to
bring
people
along
with
us
as
much
as
possible,
particularly
leaders
leaders
in
the
community,
such
as
councils,
and
we
will
aim
to
do
that
and
and
take
take
lessons
from
from
from
from
from
the
journey.
So
far.
R
Thank
you
so
can
I
just
ask
before
this
tonight's
meeting?
Where
is
the
information
on
why
things
like
a
50
meter
pool
is
not
feasible
and
can
we
honestly
say
nothing
is
off
the
table.
I
We
are,
we
are
good,
we've
hired
Duncan's
firm
and
to
to
give
a
fresh
look
at
the
mix
in
the
aquadrome.
So
yes,
we're
waiting
for
further
advice
from
him,
but
we
are
I.
Think
there
has.
There
have
been
that
there
have
been
reports
done
previously,
which
Duncan
referred
to,
which
which
do
indicate
that
it's
a
it's
a
it's.
I
It's
not
something
that
if
you're
looking
at
the
overall
benefit
for
residents
in
terms
of
water
activity
in
the
borough
at
a
50
meter
pool,
is
one
that
sort
of
ranks
as
being
something
that
that's
a
priority.
So
there
is
there.
There
is
the
information
out
there,
but
we
will.
I
We
will
bring,
we
bring
it,
we
bring,
but
we
will
be
we'll
be
bringing
forward
with
with
Duncan's
help
more
information
on
this.
There's
always
the
view
that
that
that
being
offered
that
the
information
is
not
being
provided,
but
there
is
a
massive
information-
that's
out
there
and
unfortunately,
it's
not
always
red.
R
Can
I
just
come
back
on
that?
So
if
it's
not
15
plan
as
a
resident,
who
hasn't
got
time
to
go
on
a
council
website
search
of
these
documents
where
so
when
I
say
communication,
I'm,
not
saying
residents
should
go
and
look
for
it.
I'm
saying
we
need
to
say
to
residents.
This
is
essential.
We
need
to
go
to
them.
We
need
to
be
very
clear
and
transparent
and
I.
Think
communication.
A
I'm
going
to
come
in
myself
with
a
couple
of
questions
actually
I
think
we
thought
that
was
sort
of
just
touching
on
the
Leisure
needs
assessment
and
I
was
having
a
look
at
that
today
and
I
know
going
online
and
even
finding
the
document
I
got
was
2015,
even
though
it
said
2022,
so
I
think
that's
obviously,
so
the
information
might
be
able
to
question
on
is
potentially
out
of
date,
but
this
is,
you
know.
Obviously
it's
once
again
communication.
A
We
talked
about
the
possibility
with
the
aquadrome
and
obviously
this
money
that's
spent
on
it
and
there's
nothing
totally
fixed
about
it
and
one
of
the
things
that
when
I've
talked
through
some
of
the
facilities
talk
about
mixed
use
facilities,
one
of
the
things
that
came
out
to
me
in
that
document
was
the
need
for
a
purpose-built,
martial
arts
space.
A
martial
arts
also
remember
think
of
things
like
boxing
and
wrestling,
which
obviously
fits
different
demographics,
rather
than
your
your
white
middle
class.
A
Whatever
it
was,
you
said
earlier,
I
think
squash
was
also
something
that
was
highlighted
and
I'd
also
like
to
talk
about
the
whole
idea
about
indoor
skate
and
BMX
and
all
that
sort
of
stuff,
because
I
know
that's
something
that
we
do
have
strong
following
amazing.
So
and
some
of
those
things
there's
also
this
sort
of
questions,
two
questions,
but
it
ties
together.
Something
Mr
Peach
was
saying
was
that
people
that
try
and
run
those
things
they
are
commercially
very
tight
and
it's
very
difficult
to
run
them
now.
A
Everything
that
we've
talked
about
tonight
has
talked
about
the
economic
commercial-driven
Market
in
Leisure
and,
as
has
I
think
councilor
Harvey
mentioned
earlier,
was
the
idea
that
we
are
delivering
to
Residents
I.
Think
other
councils
have
said
the
same
thing
so
when
a
facility
that
would
actually
give
great
social
value
to
our
residents
struggles
commercially.
I
Yeah,
so
so
what
you
say
is
quite
illustrative
there's
a
problem.
You
know
you
talk
about.
Martial
arts
based
boxing
squash
indoor
skate,
skate,
skating,
BMX,
there's
a
whole
whole
raft
of
different
Leisure
Pursuits.
We
could
bring
to
to
the
Leisure
Park
we
we
are
not
going
to
be
able
to
deliver
them
all,
but
we
will
we
will.
I
We
will
try
and
get
the
best
possible
mix
to
suit
the
the
broadest
range
of
of
residents
in
the
borough,
and,
yes,
it
does
it
will
we
we
do,
need
it
to
pay
for
itself,
but
that
we
will
have
an
eye
to
opportunities
to
to
to
sort
of
cross-subsidize
some
certain
activities
that
in
in
of
themselves,
do
not
perhaps
are
not
viable,
but
where,
where
there's
demonstrable
demand
from
from
our
residents,
absolutely
we
have.
I
We
have
a
we're
we're
this.
Isn't
we're
not
sort
of
speaking
here
as
a
sort
of
directors
of
some
of
some
public
company.
We
haven't.
We
have
a
fiduciary
responsibility
to
our
right
players,
but
it
it
doesn't
sort
of.
In
there
we
we
have
council
plan,
we
have
priorities
that
we
we
and
we
want
to
ensure
that
the
the
the
new
Leisure
Park
Embraces,
those
those
broader
economic
and
social
and
well-being,
priorities.
H
I'm
just
happy
to
just
to
come
in
to
address
your
your
question:
if
that's
okay,
if
we
think
about
public
Leisure
facilities,
they
they,
they
tend
to
be
full
of
the
things
that
the
private
sector
don't
want
to
build.
That's
why
they're
public?
You
know,
and,
and
also
the
point
you
made
about-
are
being
priced.
You
know,
sensitively
and
at
times
being
priced
at
a
at
a
level,
for
example
that
young
people
can
afford.
H
You
know
a
lot
of
the
research
says
that
young
people
don't
have
any
disposable
income
for
leisure,
so
they
actually
need
help
and
they
need
free
access
to
facilities.
So
if
you
can
get
the
mix
right
within
the
new
aquadrome,
there's,
there's
a
there's,
a
sort
of
Sweet,
Spot,
financially
and
socially,
that
you
can
try
and
Achieve
within
the
footprint,
which
should
be
the
aim
that
you're
looking
to
to
meet.
H
So
you
know
currently
design
of
public
Leisure
facilities
is
looking
to
try
and
build
in
as
much
flexibility
as
possible,
so
that
you
know
your
martial
artists
can
go
and
use
space.
If
it's
dedicated
space,
then
that
public
space
will
not
be
used
optimally.
If
it's
space
that
they
can
use
and
a
pilates
class
can
use
in
a
gym
class
can
use
for
toddlers
And
you
get
much
better
value
for
money.
You
get
much
greater
social
value
and
use
of
that
space.
So
so
I
think
your
your
as
part
of
the
process.
H
H
You
can't
sort
of
get
off
the
hook
for
that
I'm
afraid
you
know,
because
the
private
sector
won't
provide
swimming
lessons
for
kids
or
or
affordable
swimming
access.
You
know
you
can
go
to
a
posh
pool
and
pay
15
pounds
an
hour
if
you
want,
but
you
know,
for
the
general
public,
you
know
you've
got
a
real
responsibility
and
I
know
it's
one
that
you've
held.
You
know
with
you
know
absolutely
brilliantly
over
the
years.
So
I
think
the
things
that
you
know
some
of
the
ideas
that
were
suggested
today.
H
You
know
as
councilorize
it
said,
are
not
off
the
are
not
off
the
table.
You
know,
we've
got
a
certain
footprint.
You've
got
a
certain
amount
of
space
and
it's
trying
to
find
that
optimal
balance,
and
it
may
be
that
some
of
those
needs
are
not
necessarily
met
in
the
aquadrome
footprint
but
elsewhere
in
the
borough.
You
know
through
other
Partnerships,
through
school
developments
through
other
commercial
developments.
Etc
and
and
again,
you've
got
some
very
good
research
to
help
you
with
those
future
decisions.
A
Thank
you.
Next
I've
got
counselor
Jones
again.
M
Make
sure
you
asked
a
question,
but
I
will
go
over
it
one
more
time.
Subsidies
we've
talked
about
different
people
coming
into
the
Leisure
Park,
which
obviously
you're
going
to
make
as
a
business.
But
are
we
talking
what
I've
been
rattling
on
about
for
years,
giving
our
youth
in
particular
discounts
and
when
we're
talking
about
letting
people
in
it
to
build
whatever
they
wish
to
build,
and
what
we
want
on
that
Leisure
part.
M
Can
we
is
there
a
possibility,
if
actually
building
that
in
with
a
contract,
so
they
give
the
Youth
of
Beijing
soap
and
doing
a
discount?
You
know,
because,
at
the
end
of
the
day,
I
represent
South
Dam
of
represented
Buckskin
Ward
before
that
very
poor
area
actually
living
on
top
of
the
Leisure
Park.
A
lot
of
them
can't
afford
to
go
in
there
now,
to
my
mind,
we're
spending
40
minutes,
whatever
it's
40
million
or
whatever,
on
doing
this,
that's
some
of
their
money,
whether
we
like
it
or
not,
and
that
should
be
a
priority.
M
M
But
a
lot
of
people
represent
Villages
far
out
because
there's
a
big
old
area
by
using
something
it
becomes
expensive
for
ordinary
families
to
come
into
Basingstoke
with
children
and
that
to
do
these
things
so
I'd
like
to
see
some
form
to
actually
look
into
what
can
be
done,
not
just
with
our
swimming
pools,
but
with
the
with
the
people
going
in
there.
The
people
going
in
there
to
make
money
most
most
of
them.
I
Yeah,
thank
you,
councilor,
Jones,
yeah
and
and,
of
course,
I
think
we
we,
our
our
approach,
is
going
to
be
that
the
some
of
the
operators
in
in
the
development
of
plots
by
them
for
for
their
Leisure
attractions
will
generate
revenues
that
we'll
be
able
to
use
across
the
park
into
particularly
in
terms
of
public
space,
and
that
gives
rise
to
the
opportunity
for
free
activities.
I
think
yeah.
So
foreign.
M
I'm
not
talking
about
free
activities,
I'm
talking
about
activities
going
into
the
building
and
doing
what
other
kids
are
doing.
What
other
middle
class
families
are
doing,
I'm
talking
about
working
class
fans
who
can't
afford
it?
Now
it's
a
big
ask,
but
if
we
don't
start
asking
now
we're
never
at
it,
no
I'm
putting
it
to
you,
that's
something
that
should
be
built
in
trying
to
get
something
changed.
So
I
can't
think
of
a
leisure.
M
I
They're
quite
difficult
to
administer
these
things
and
to
decide
who's
our
eligible
and
who
isn't
but
but
okay,
the
point
you
make
is
is
understood
and
I'm
sure
that
that
we
will
look
look
at
that
aspect
of
things
when
it
comes
down
to
the
negotiations
with
commercial
operators.
S
L
S
Chair
a
couple
of
things,
obviously,
we've
got
quite
a
good
space
there,
but
it's
not
infinite
and
it's
running
also
in
keeping
with
cancer
Comics
point
about
heat
exchange
with
the
ice
rink
in
the
pool
not
having
had
the
benefit
of
talking
to
cancer
constituent.
S
It
was
suggested
to
me
by
somebody.
Could
the
pool
and
the
rink
be
combined
into
a
two-story
building
to
have
that
heat
exchange?
I
have
no
idea
if
it's
possible
or
not,
but
in
the
spirit
of
that
communication,
I
thought
it'd
be
good
to
at
least
put
the
point
forward
and
maybe
get
an
answer.
Okay,
should
we
go
first.
H
I
think
thank
you,
councilor
Bose.
What
what
one
of
the
other
sort
of
public
sector
Leisure
crises
that's
going
on
is
guess
what
ice
rinks,
they're
they're
just
impossibly
difficult
to
run
without
a
huge
subsidy.
At
the
moment
they
were
bad
before
the
Ukraine
situation,
and,
and
now
it's
even
worse,
unfortunately,
and
and
sadly,
a
number
of
our
clients
and
councils
around
the
country
are
having
some
very
difficult
conversations,
because
it's
a
much-loved
resource
and
for
the
commercial
operators
they
will
be
struggling
to
make
ends
meet
at
the
moment.
H
So
again,
it's
important
to
do
your
homework
around
facility
makes
and
model
the
costs
off.
You
know
what
you've
maybe
suggested
to
say.
Well,
look.
Would
it
work,
you
know
you're
going
to
get
enough
income
in
to
to
take
account
and
and
what
those
Technical
Solutions
are.
You
know
a
large
ice
rink
and
a
an
a
Leisure
Pool
with
with
you
know,
significant
lanes
for
swimming.
It
would
would
have
a
huge
energy
load.
It'd,
obviously
be
a
significant
carbon
implication
as
well.
That
needs
to
be
looked
at
and
so
I
think.
H
The
sensible
approach
is
to
try
and
refine
down
your
options
to
something
that
everybody's
pretty
comfortable
with
and
then
check
the
affordability
and
sustainability,
because
you
know
there's
no
point
coming
up
with
an
idea
that
you
can't
afford
to
build,
and
you
can't
afford
to
run
particularly
picking
up
on
the
point
that
if,
if
some
aspect
of
the
public
Leisure
offer
is
consciously
subsidized
to
support
access
to
Residents
that
may
not
be
able
to,
you
know,
pay
a
commercial
price.
You
know
the
other
people
communion
will
have
to
pay
for
that.
H
P
H
Know,
high
energy
intensive
public
Leisure
offers
at
the
moment
you're
looking
at
subsidies
in
the
millions
per
annum,
whereas
if
you
come
up
with
a
different
mix,
you
might
be
able
to,
you
know
meet
the
needs
of
more
residents,
find
a
good
compromise,
still
will
be
very
attractive,
still
put
basing
Stoke
on
them
out
still
get
people
wanting
to
drive
this
decent
distance
to
visit
you
and
that's
that's
the
balance.
You've
got
you
know,
30
40
million
sounds
a
lot.
H
S
Okay,
I
thought
that
that
the
exchange
bit
was
this
sounds
like
we're
not
getting
a
rink.
Then
that
sounds
very
much
like
an
ice.
Rink
is
off
the
table.
Does
it
there's
one?
No
no
I
mean,
but
if
we
do,
you
couldn't
have
a
new
one
to
just
redecorate
the
old
one.
I
Well,
when
there
is
an
existing
ice,
rink
operator
and
I
think
it's
quite
clear
that
it's
perfectly
possible
to
upgrade
refurbish
the
existing
ice
rink
and
therefore
it
would
it's
particularly
in
view
of
our
climate
change
objectives.
I
It
would
make
a
lot
of
sense
to
fully
pursue
that,
which
was,
which
is
what
we're
doing
is
taking
longer
than
I
would
like,
but
there
we
go,
but
that
that
is
a
way
forward
and
I
understand
that
the
the
the
ice
rink
operator
is
committed
to
beijing's
token
and
and
also
wants
to
invest
further
in
in
that
ice
rink.
So
I
hope.
That
is
where
we
end
up.
S
Thank
you.
The
other
point,
I
had
infrared
going
back
to
the
stadium.
S
I
was
looking
at
what
it
says
here
and
he's
saying
looking
at
York,
for
example,
they've
done
one
recently
and
that,
but
if
you
with
ancillary
facilities
and
being
developed
as
part
of
the
project
with
a
view
to
achieving
operational
sustainability,
I
had
a
quick
look
at
the
York
one
and
it
is
very,
very
new.
It's
only
just
opened
2022
I
believe
so
it's
probably
a
little
bit
soon
to
say
whether
or
not
there
are
achieving
operational
sustainability
or
making
a
profit.
S
S
I
was
looking
at
the
the
the
idea
of
a
concerts
only
having
two
a
year,
because
everybody
wants
to
go
to
Southampton
or
reading.
So
we're
basically
saying
nobody
wants
to
come
here
which
I
don't
believe
and
surely
if
we
had
something
like
that,
then
maybe
people
might
want
to
come
here
more
okay,
thanks.
H
H
Already
that
have
you
know,
agreements
with
promoters
and
the
the
challenge
is
is
a
new
facility
in
Basingstoke
would
would
need
to
to
provide
something
different
from
what's
available
already
and,
and
the
advice
has
is
that
they
would
they
would
struggle
with
a
5
000,
seater
stadium,
for
example,
a
it's
quite
difficult
to
to
fill
that
number
of
seats
for
for
concerts
with
with,
and
the
cost
of
setting
it
up
and
setting
it
down.
H
And
the
advice
is:
is
that
that
you
would
really
struggle
and-
and
it's
not
necessarily
a
particularly
good
idea,
and
it
could
be
a
very,
very
expensive,
long-term
decision
and
somebody
would
need
to
underwrite
that
loss.
You
know
a
lot
of
the
stadium
developments
recently
have
been
sort
of
public-private
Partnerships,
where
the
local
Authority
have
got
behind
their
local
club,
and
some
are
doing.
H
Okay,
but,
but
often
those
that
are
more
prudent,
are
more
present
in
terms
of
The
League
status
of
the
club
that
it's
in
the
number
of
people,
it's
attracting
day-to-day,
where
possible,
if
you
can
combine
those
at
the
stadium
with
with
other
other
public
services
and
Commercial
activities
within
the
undercroft,
you
know
that
that
all
helps,
but
you
know
at
the
moment
you
know
there
are
plenty
of
examples
where
you
know
you
you
could
well,
you
wouldn't
be
able
to
build
your
aqued
room
and
support
the
stadium.
O
Thank
you,
chair,
just
a
quick
question.
We
talked
earlier
on
about
the
the
time
it's
taken
us
to
deliver
anything
and
it
seems
to
be
a
a
problem
raised
by
a
number
of
people
once
we
get
the
big
reveal
in
March
for
one
for
better
expression.
What's
the
time
scale
for
filling
the
framework
for
people
putting
in
proposals
for
Leisure,
Leisure
facilities
or
whatever,
what's
our
time
scale.
I
Just
make
the
point:
there
is
it's
not
a
big
reveal
in
March.
This
is
this
is
a
single
leisure
operator
that
we're
talking
about
yeah.
O
No
I
understand
that,
but
you
know
it's
starting
to
fill
the
Gap
in
the
framework
and
I'm
just
wondering
what
what
is
our
time
scale
now
for
for
other
people
other
than
the
ones
you've
been
talking
to
perhaps
getting
in
their
proposals
and
their
view
across.
Where
are
we
in
in
that
sort
of.
J
Thank
you
councilor.
So
at
the
moment
we've
had
some
expressions
of
interests
from
Leisure
operators
over
the
next
few
months,
we'll
be
looking
to
firm
up
some
of
those
expressions
of
Interest
looking
to
heads
of
terms,
look
to
try
and
understand
work
through
their
business
plans,
Financial
business
plans
to
make
make
sure
they're
robust
and
also
assess
how
their
offer
benefits
the
Leisure
Park
in
relation
to
competition
with
the
Town
Center.
J
So
already
we're
starting
those
discussions.
I
would
say
it
will
be
a
few
months
yet
before
we
actually
get.
P
J
Operator
signed
up
fully
to
a
specific
plot,
and
part
of
that
is
down
to
the
the
work
that
I
mentioned
earlier
in
terms
of
the
the
transport
plans
and
the
design
codes
that
we'll
be
working
working
on.
But
the
level
of
Interest
we've
had
so
far
is
extremely
promising.
I
We
will
be
the
approach
will
involve
an
overall
planning
framework
and
by
virtue
of
being
on
a
plot,
By
plot
basis.
It
could
be
this
could
be
organic.
Is
this
isn't
going
to
be
like
the
appointment
of
a
master
developer?
Who
will
come
in
and
it'll
be
a
big
bang
and
everyone
will
know
exactly
who's
going
where
on
which
plot?
That's
I,
think
a
strength
of
this
process?
I
certainly
hope
so
so
it
will
take
time,
but
it's
our
land
and
we,
the
the
decision
we
take,
should
be
right.
A
Okay,
thank
you
right.
Councilor,
Harvey,.
N
N
Let
things
go
in
that
kind
of
ad
hoc
fashion
and
then
what
was
said
by
having
the
vision,
bringing
people
together
having
an
overarching
holistic
approach,
you
can't
have
both
and
if
you
try
to
have
both
you
might
wind
up
getting
back
to
where
news
was
on
Beijing
view,
which
was
self-defeating
in
the
end
or
you
wind
up
with
New
River
retail,
which
was
all-encompassing
and
was
a
disaster
all
in
the
end.
It's
just
going
to
be
clear
here.
What
is
it
you're
saying?
N
N
Are
we
doing
this
for
the
commercial
operators
who
are
pitching
up
wanting
to
bring
their
businesses
here?
And
yes,
we
want
them
or
do
we
want
them
here,
because
they
will
benefit
our
residents
with
the
offers
they
may
make
that
make
the
place
tick
that
give
it
a
sense
of
gravity
that
we
want
it
to
have
I
know.
You
said
in
terms
of
March
looked
to
the
cabinet.
We
will.
That
will
give
us
an
indication
great,
but
there
is
an
element
of
equality
of
opportunity
here.
N
If
you're
saying
the
public
offer
is
the
aquadrome
that
is
then
concerning
because
the
public
offer
can't
just
be
the
aquadrome,
the
public
offer
is
the
Leisure
Park
and
what
the
Leisure
Park
offers
the
people
of
Basingstoke
and
Dean
in
the
region.
That's
why
the
idea
of
the
skatepark,
the
idea
of
the
BMX,
cannot
be
part
of
the
aquadrome.
N
Currently,
we
have
got
to
think
longer
term
than
that
in
terms
of
a
Leisure
part,
that's
going
to
have
to
last
a
lot
more
than
the
current
crisis
and
I
guess
that's
where
the
energy
Point
comes
in
is
where
all
of
that
comes
in
I'm
just
saying
there
is
a
lot
more
to
this
than
just
taking
the
operators
plot,
By
plot,
sometimes
you're,
saying
that
and
sometimes
you're
not
and
the
language
isn't
coherent.
Here,
it's
not
all
joined
up.
It
doesn't
feel
as
if
this
thing
is
actually
joined
up
at
the
moment.
G
I
I,
don't
accept
your
dichotomy.
Actually,
you
know
that
that
commercial
operations
can't
be
ones
that
are
that
are
that
that
serve
public
good.
You
know
a
lot
a
lot
of
commercial
operations
work
very
well
because
they
do
serve
the
public
and
people
come
and,
and
so,
and
you
use
the
word
ad
hoc
and
you
you've
always
got
to
break
you're.
I
Always
very,
very
you
you're,
very
careful
with
your
choice
of
words,
but
but
you
know,
ad
hoc,
it
isn't
ad
hoc
there's
an
overall
there's
going
to
be
an
overall
Vision,
an
overall
mix
of
uses.
I
We
want
to
do
there
and
we
will
be
talking
to
operators
on
a
plot,
By
plot
basis,
and
so
it's
within
that
framework
that
this
is
all
going
to
to
take
place
and
and
over
time
we
get
a
we're
not
going
to
rush
into
it,
we're
going
to
get
the
best
operators,
but
all
within
an
overall
vision
of
of
of
of
of
what's
suitable
and
what's
going
to
work
best
for
our
residents.
Thank
you.
Fine,
okay,
good
good,
good,
good
I,
always
I
always
I,
was
I
was
enjoy
our
debates.
Councilor
Holly.
N
That's
exactly
what
I'm
asking
for
I'm
asking
because
forgive
me,
but
what
you
were
saying
was
different
to
what
others
were
saying
and
you're
now
melding
that
together
in
a
way
that
is
beginning
to
sound,
coherent
and
I,
don't
mean
to
be
disrespectful
to
you
by
saying
that
and
but
but
that's
now
coming
across
now.
The
question
is:
how
do
we
fill
those
blanks
in
that's
really
important?
As
what
all
others
have
said,
it's
how
we
help
you
do
that,
and
it
isn't
just
led
to
the
executive
alone
to
do
it.
I
think.
I
Yes,
but
ultimately
we
are
the
executive.
We
will
have
to
take
the
decisions
and
and
that
we're
accountable,
but
with
you
yes,
absolutely,
but
but
that's
the
where
the
the
sort
of
Burden
rests
with
the
executive
under
the
constitution
in
in
this
Council.
But
absolutely
we
want
to
inform
and
and
receive
the
the
the
the
views
and
the
advice
from
from
councilors
of
all
parties
and
and
officers
and
Consultants.
N
The
only
other
point
I
would
make-
and
this
is
different
to
speaking
about
the
point-
I
forgot-
to
make
this
point-
it's
important.
If
you
take
the
example
of
we
won't
build
it
because
commercially
and
so
on,
and
to
two
events
here
aren't
enough
all
that
advice,
we
would
have
never
built
the
Anvil,
because
Southampton
reading
and
the
others
had
all
those
wonderful
facilities.
We.
E
N
The
Anvil
and
now
it's
a
nationally
renowned
building,
it's
a
nationally
renowned
concert.
Center,
we
improved
the
point.
Sometimes
that
equation
doesn't
need
to
be
thought
about.
I
respect.
What
you're
saying
but
I
would
just
push
back.
Basingstoke
has
actually
done
something
hugely
successful
for
us.
The
market
might
be
very
much
at
the
moment
which
I
respect
push
back
a
little
bit
on
that
foreign.
A
Q
Thank
you,
I
just
wanted
to
pick
up
on
I
think
it
was
counselor
James
mentioned
about
discounts
and
whatever
I
I
did
experience.
Windsor
and
maidenhead
gave
their
residents
I
think
it
was
a
10
discount
card
when
they
redid
their
Leisure
Park
for
the
first
10
years
of
its
usage
or
whatever.
So
are
there?
Definitely,
if
one
were
to
choose
to
do
that,
one
could
but
I
wanted
to
pick
up.
Also
on
the
on
the
ice.
Rink.
Q
Q
How
can
we
encourage
them
to
do
a
bit
of
a
refurb
I
mean
I,
noticed
sorry
to
say
this,
but
Winchester
were
Consulting
on
a
large
Olympic
ice
rink
just
before
Christmas,
with
a
very
enthusiastic
operator
who
wanted
to
do
that.
I,
don't
know
that
that's
what
they
will
go
forward
with,
but
I
want.
You
know
this
is
our
regional
draw
here
right
now,
this
minute?
How
do
we
make
sure
it
remains?
You
know
top
of
the
pile
foreign.
I
Yeah,
but
at
the
risk
of
going
into
sort
of
sense
of
commercial
negotiations
and
officers
will
look
aghast,
but
you
know
that
there
is
a
we're:
the
Freeholder
there's
a
long
leaseholder
and
there's
the
Ice
Planet
Ice,
and
it's
in
the
public
domain
that
there
are
discussions
between
Planet
Ice
and
the
long
leaseholder
for
the
that
for
that
interest
to
be
acquired
by
Planet
Ice.
I
I
K
K
We've
said
a
lot
about
communication
this
evening
and
I
totally
agree
that
that's
one
of
the
big
problems
in
that
this
amazing
research
has
been
done,
but
we
haven't
seen
it
and
neither
of
our
residents
and
I
think.
Another
important
point
to
make
is
that
Community
Communications
is
two-way,
so
we're
all
in
this
together.
No,
you
got
the
researchers,
the
councilors,
the
residents,
the
officers
we're
all
in
this
together.
K
We
all
want
the
best
for
Basingstoke
and
the
more
of
us
that
can
can
get
together
and
work
on
it
with
that
Vision.
The
better
and
I
know
that
there
was
a
resident
survey
and
I
knew
a
few
ideas
from
counselors
went
into
the
pot,
and
then
there
was
fantastic
research,
but
then,
from
my
perspective,
as
a
counselor,
and
certainly
from
my
from
the
perspective
of
many
residents,
everything
went
into
a
black
hole
and
we
all
want
to
keep
working
with
it.
We
want
to
see
the
work
that
you
did.
K
We
want
to
look
at
the
world
as
as
it
is
now
post
covered
with
the
new
emphasis
that
you're
talking
about
with
with
young
people.
We
want
to
look
at
the
older
Generations.
We
want
to
look
at
the
hospital,
that's
probably
going
to
be
rebuilt.
Will
it
have
its
hydrotherapy
pool
in
the
hospital
anymore?
K
We
don't
know,
but
have
we
actually
talked
to
them
to
find
out
there's
an
awful
lot
of
work
going
on
in
the
aquadrome,
with
people
coming
rehabilitating
from
strokes
and
there's
lots
of
lots
of
new
work
with
people
suffering
from
cancer?
Have
we
been
talking
about
that?
K
Have
we
been
looking
at
those
opportunities
because,
certainly
from
the
point
of
view
of
the
aquadrome,
that's
been
something
we've
only
been
looking
at
recently
and
we've
started:
we've
changed
the
cafe
into
a
into
an
area
where
they
can
have
small
groups
and
and
I
know,
that's
just
a
small
example,
but
it's
indicative
of
how
how
things
are
changing
and
have
we
explored
all
of
that
and
I
think
it's
only
by
engaging
with
our
residents
and
with
us
on
the
ground.
K
You
talk
to
our
residents
every
day
that
we
can
really
understand
what's
going
on
there
and
and
how
this
can
be,
what
is
best
suited
to
our
residents
so
councilor
either.
It
was
great
to
hear
that
at
this
point
you
want
to
receive
advice
from
counselors
and
officers
and
consultants,
and
my
question
is
great.
So
how
do
we
get
involved
and
how
can
we
represent
our
residents
in
these
decisions?
Now,
foreign.
I
I
think
that
on
the
point
of
communication,
yes,
there's
work
to
be
done
and
I
think
we
need
to
look
at
how
we
bring
this
updates
to
eph
and
also
potentially,
all
member
briefings
and
and
workshops
in
future,
because
I
I
do
understand
that,
particularly
on
this
issue
at
the
Leisure
Park
there
is,
there
is
a
sort
of
a
a
depth
of
interest
from
counselors
that
that
we
need
to
respond
to.
A
A
P
You,
madam
Chad,
so
my
question
is
straightforward:
question
ma'am:
what
kind
of
Confluence
or
measures
in
place
we
got?
We
live
what
kind
of
lessons
we
learned
from
the
new
River
and
is
it
going
to
be
another
New
River
episode,
another
legal
challenge,
another
investigation
and
then
they
will
pull
it
out.
So
how
do
we
stop
it
happening.
I
Well,
we've
taken
that
decision
because
we're
not
going
with
a
master
developer,
so
we're
going
on
a
plot,
By
plot
basis,
so
we'll
have
direct
communication
with
in
individual
Leisure
operators.
It
won't
be
a.
It
won't,
be
a
repeat
of
news
either
because
Muse
were
effectively
a
project
manager
and
that
they
weren't
bringing
in
they
weren't
prepared
to
put
their
own
Capital
into
the
into
amazing
view.
So
I'm
confident
that
as
it's
turned
out,
we
didn't
start
this
way,
but
I'm.
I
Confident
now
that
the
approach
that
that
we
have
before
us
today,
which
is
is
enshrined
in
the
in
the
master
plan,
is
the
right
way
and
will
ensure
that
we
have
the
the
best
control
in
the
future
as
a
council
on
this,
and
that
we
are
talking
to
individual
operators
who
will
be
held
accountable
as
part
of
any
deal
that
we
negotiate
with
them.
They'll
have
to
deliver
that
they'll
have
to
deliver
on
the
buildings
and
I
hope
by
that.
I
P
Thank
you.
Well,
that
is
one
aspect
of
it.
The
new
reward
is
delayed.
That
project
is
delayed
because
of
the
legal
challenges.
So
do
you
anticipate
any
legal
challenges
with
this
approach.
I
I
I
it
if
you're
a
public
body
and
you
are
seeking
to
develop
and
procure
developments,
there's
always
the
risk
of
of
legal
challenge
but
I
think
because
it's
it's
it's
going
to
be
plot,
By
plot
and
it's
not
one
master
developer
who's.
Looking
at
the
whole
site
comprehensively,
then
then
I
think
the
level
of
risk
I
would
hope.
I'll
look
to
Fiona
on
this
would
would
be
of
a
different,
much
different
order.
I
Much
smaller
order
that
that's
but
I
will
I
will
I
always
defer
to
the
the
wisdom
of
our
of
our
Chief
legal
officer.
T
I
think
all
I
can
say
is
that
the
officers
are
taking
advice
as
they
go
along,
so
we'll
prevent
you
know
on
the
legal
and
the
procurement
side,
we'll
be
giving
the
officers
you
know,
and
the
portfolio
holder
the
strongest
advice
on
The,
Way
Forward.
Really
so
I
can't
say
much
more
than
that.
This
counselor
says
you
can't
ever
say
this
won't
be
a
challenge.
We
we
don't
know
we
just
need
to
make
sure.
We've
put
you
know,
we've
given
the
best
advice
and
people
have.
You
know
adhered
to,
that
advice.
I
It
actually
succeed
in
with
a
legal
challenge.
It
took
two
years,
that's
trouble,
which
we
isn't
very
helpful.
As.
P
A
Okay,
well,
thank
you
very
much
officers
and
councilor
Isaac
for
answering
all
the
questions
and
we're
now
going
to
move
to
debate
so,
and
would
you
like
to
discuss
anything
what
I'm
going
to
do?
A
First
of
all,
as
I've
been
invited
to
remind
people,
because
we've
kind
of
like
gone
on
quite
a
all
over
the
place,
with
a
bit
that
the
screw
security
consider
the
information
provided
in
the
response
request
for
a
call
and
request
what
we're
going
to
try
to
be
deciding
is
whether
to
one
refer,
the
decision
back
to
cabinet
for
reconsideration,
setting
out
the
nature
of
the
committee's
concerns,
or
we
decide
not
to
refer
the
matter
back
to
Cabinet.
In
which
case
the
decision
shall
take
effect
immediately.
N
Be
brave
and
girlfriend
I
just
think
it's
interesting.
The
debate
we've
had
this
evening
from
lots
of
different
perspectives
and
where
it
leads
you
to
and
I
don't
want
to
repeat
everything
that's
been
said
this
evening
is,
is
in
the
sense
of
why
we
sat
around
the
table
having
the
conversation
we're
having
and
it's
because
of
the
sense
of
disengagement
and
the
lack
of
inclusion
that
many
members
do
genuinely
feel.
Now.
It's
been
addressed
in
different
ways
this
evening
about
a
conversation
we've
had
in
the
information
that's
been
put
on
the
table.
N
I
think
there
are
members
of
the
map
who
feel
as
if
they
have
not
been
included
or
not
been
listened
to
in
a
way
that
they
would
like,
or
they
consider
them
and
that's
a
fair
criticism
that
needs
to
be
considered
in
the
way
Maps.
The
way
that
Maps
operate,
not
that
has
been
expressed
by
them
councilorize
it
so.
N
I
mean,
with
all
due
respect,
I
mean
they've,
expressed
that
feeling
eventually,
if
you're,
not
willing
to
listen
to
that
and
accept
that,
then
I
do
think.
That's
a
point
and
and
I'm
inviting
you
to
do
so
excellent.
That's
that's
all
I'm
asking
you
to
do.
Let's
not
criticize
the
map
members,
just
because
they're
not
here
for
this
evening,
for
a
variety
of
different
reasons,
no
doubt
but
nonetheless
we
are
and
we're
debating
this,
and
we've
heard
what
they've
got
to
say
and
so
with
you.
So
let's
treat
it
with
the
respect
it
deserves.
N
N
That
works
in
parallel
with
the
executive
to
discuss
the
opportunities
explore
the
evidence
and
instead
of
having
an
hour's
debate
to
eph
or
we
get
a
report
you
spend
an
hour
debating,
and
you
ask
some
questions
or
instead
of
having
a
normal
member
briefing,
which
is
necessarily
effectively
a
couple
of
questions
at
the
most
and
it's
not
very
in-depth
and
the
last
one.
We
had
at
a
presentation
that
nobody
could
read.
L
N
All
honestly
and
again
that
was
a
matter
that
needs
to
be
reflected
upon
in
terms
of
the
way
things
are
communicated
a
task
and
finish
panel
that
can
work
with
you
in
some
depth
and
offer
that
level
of
Engagement
that
members
could
feel
confident
in
and
that
communication
that
goes
back
to
groups
and
to
to
colleagues
in
a
way
that
we
engage
with
might
be
a
constructive
way
forward.
N
Is
that
it's
that
notion
of
an
outcome
rather
than
just
kicking
it
back
to
cabinet
and
saying
reconsider
it
when
you're
going
to
go
ahead
with
it
anyway,
because
even
when
we
do
ask
you
to
reconsider,
it'll
still
happen.
So,
let's
work
constructively
as
to
how
we
can
work
alongside
you
to
make
this
thing
work
and
that
you've
said
nothing's
on
the
table.
Colleagues
who
do
want
to
see
the
idea
of
the
50
meter
pool
and
all
the
other
things
considered,
that
debate
can
be
had
effectively
and
constructively
too
I.
N
N
I
mean
my
point
is
not
everything
should
be
vested
in
the
hands
of
the
seven
members
of
the
executive.
There
are
54
councils
on
this
Authority
and
we
are
a
council
of
no
overall
control
at
the
moment.
Let
us
respect
that
in
the
sense
of
how
we
do
things
and
work
with
you
so
that
you
get
this
right.
We
get
this
right.
I
have
to
get
this
right.
It's
been
screwed
up
so
badly
with
New
River.
It's
been
a
mess
for
so
long.
Let's
work
together
to
try
to
achieve
the
best
for
our
residents.
N
M
Actually,
I'd
go
along
with
that
I
think
a
chance
can
finish,
would
be
ideal.
I,
don't
see
why
it
should
hold
you
up.
What's
holding
you
up
is
coming
to
these
meetings
now
I'm
trying
to
explain.
Obviously
the
whole
consultant
there,
let's
be
able
to
paved
to
come
here
and
they
could
be
doing
other
work.
You
know
it's
well,
it's
it's
factual
life.
You
know.
Do
you
come
to
many
of
these
with
us
I?
Don't
think
you
do
so.
It's
no
good
pulling
phases
what's
coming
out
of
this
meeting.
M
Is
the
communications
broken
down
now
the
way
to
bring
it
forward
and
I?
Think
everybody
in
this
building
is
saying
that
we
want
a
good,
Leisure
Center
how
we
go
about.
It
will
be
your
final
decision,
but
we
as
counselors
like
some
import.
We
don't
I,
obviously
don't
want
to
put
hold
it
up,
nor
does
anybody
else
and
sooner
we
get
these
buildings
the
better,
because
the
ones
we've
got
now,
if
I'm,
really
honest
they're
falling
around
their
ears,
but
I'm
no
expert
on
that,
but
I
think
a
task
and
finish
would
be
something
positive.
M
I,
don't
discount
members
briefings
because
I
think
we
need
more
of
them,
but
members
need
to
come
along,
but
I
think
if
we
have
proper
members
briefings
where
we
can
actually
sit
in
the
room
and
talk
about
these
things
would
be
a
positive
but
on
a
pool
obviously
doesn't
agree
with
the
idea
of
members
briefing
but
I
think,
although
everything
counts,
because
we
might
say
something
really
off
the
wall
when
you
think
actually
that's
not
a
bad
idea
or
whatever
or
you're.
You
know
right
so
I'd
go
along
with
that.
I'll.
Q
A
I'm
just
gonna
remind
people
that
we've
got
two
choices
here.
We've
either
got
to
refer
the
decision
back
to
cabinet
for
reconsideration,
setting
out
the
nature
of
our
concerns.
So
obviously
communication
is
something
that
seems
to
have
come
out
a
lot
on
this
idea
of
potentially
better
engagement,
so,
whether
there's
something
around
that
we
can
put
it
into
there
or
we
decide
not
to
refer
it
back
to
cabinet.
So
basically,
it's
is
it
going
back
to
Cabinet
I
think
talked
to
fiance.
You
said
it,
it
possibly
would
go
via
eph.
T
Yeah,
so
I
think
your
options
are
either
to
refer
it
back
to
cabinet.
With
your
recommendations
at
a
task
Infinity,
you
think
a
task
and
finish
group
would
be
the
way
to
go
forward.
Although
to
actually
establish
a
task
and
finish
group,
it
would
go
to
eph
or
cep
so
you
you
could
decide
not
to
refer
it
back
to
Cabinet
but
then
put
on
the
work
program
for
is
it
eph,
I'm,
not
sure
which
is
the
relevant
One
But.
N
It
back
to
Cabinet
is
the
cabinet
need
to
show
us
willing,
we've
shown
Wellington
cabinet,
so
we
need
them
to
be
on
board
for
this
and
I
think
you
need
to
reflect
on
the
decision
and
reflect
on
the
debate.
We've
had
tonight
because
there's
been
a
lot
of
concern
raised
and
a
lot
of
issues
raised
that
you
should
reflect
on.
So
the
context
at
the
minutes
will
reflect
this
evening.
The
debate
we've
had
and
cabinet
need
to
think
carefully
about
that
communication.
N
All
the
other
points
that
have
been
raised,
if
cabinet
are
willing
to
work
with
a
task
and
finish
panel,
they
can
affirm
that
they
can
show
their
willingness
for
that.
If
that
is
positive,
then
of
course,
then
you
can
set
it
up.
Then
it
can
be
moved
to
be
set
up
and
we
can
do
that
as
quickly
as
we
possibly
can.
N
No
one
wants
to
introduce
delay.
What
we
want
is
Clarity
and
what
we
want
is
effective,
engagement
and
and
constructive
engagement.
So
if
that
is
the
direction
of
travel,
that
fear
is
nodding
at
me,
then
that's
that's.
A
motion
for
referral
back
to
cabinet
and
referral
to
eph
to
take
it
forward
if
the
pH
is
indeed
the
committee
not
cep
and
that
could
be
taken
offline,
the
appropriate
relevant
committee
would
be
fair.
Wouldn't
it.
T
A
Okay,
so
I
think
I
got
to
move
to
summing
up
at
this
point.
Do
I
is
that
right.
A
Yeah
do
that
right?
Okay,
so
just
to
sum
up,
I
think:
we've
we've
just
there's
been
a
lot
I
think.
Actually
personally
I've
I've
found
this
I
thought
was
very
good.
It's
almost
quite
cathartic
to
actually
hear
to
actually
get
get
this
debate.
You
know
going
and
hearing
people
to
say
about
the
whole
Leisure
Park,
because
it
is
something
I
feel
really
strongly
about.
T
A
Totally,
remember
it
as
well:
I
know,
I,
don't
look
that
old,
but
and
yeah
and
then
obviously
seeing
them.
We
had
the
Westfield
Lido
and
then
it
developed.
P
A
I
know
I've
brought
up
my
children
and
you
know,
and
they
do
an
awful
lot
of
different
sports
and
activities,
and
some
of
those
things
are
things
that
have
been
talked
about
tonight
and
all
of
that
stuff
is
really
good
and
we've
got
to
make
sure.
We've
got
all
this
for
every
body,
but
it's
obviously
got
to
be
commercially
viable.
I
totally
appreciate
that,
but
we
need
to
be
future
proofing
and
we
do
need
to
do
this
for
our
residents
and
I.
Think
all
those
things
have
come
out.
A
I
think
the
big
thing
that's
come
out
tonight.
Listening
to
everybody's
speak,
there's
been
an
awful
lot
of
talk.
It's
been
about
communication,
it's
and
I
think
there's
possibility
that
we
may
want
to
be
in
scrutiny,
looking
at
something
as
a
work
item
on
how
communication
with
cabinet
and
scrutiny
Works.
Possibly
if
anybody
wants
to
think
about
that
one
process
was
talked
about,
then
the
issues
about
understanding
again
in
the
comms.
What
is
the
framework?
A
What
is
the
master
plan
you
know,
so
it's
all
about
kind
of
gauging
expectations,
gauging
understanding
and
making
sure
we've
got
that
good
flow
of
communication
going
I.
Think
there's
generally
feeling
there's
in
the
whole
room.
A
Everybody
wants
the
best
for
bathing
Stoke,
there's
no
two
ways
about
it
and
everybody
here
is
trying
and
I
say
that,
for
you
know,
with
great
respect
to
the
cabinet
and
to
the
officers,
it's
all
been
done
with
the
best
intentions
and
it's
a
real
shame
that
we
are
delaying
and
things
have
taken
so
long
to
get
them.
It
does
seem
to
be
a
repeating
pattern
in
in
all
sorts
of
things,
so
I
think
I
hope
that
kind
of
sums
up
I
think.
A
What's
the
gist
of
everything
that's
been
said
tonight,
my
understand,
so
what
we're
looking
at
doing
is
we're
looking
to
take
option-
oh
yes
and
I'll.
So
but
yeah
right.
So
that's
that's
my
summing
up
to
councilor
Tomlin.
A
You,
as
the
signatory
to
do
have
your
you're
with
the
you
are
satisfied
that
your
concerns
have
been
adequately
considered
at
the
meeting.
C
Thank
you,
chair
and
and
well
thank
you
all
the
participants,
members
and
Consultants
and
officers,
it's
very
good
to
have
this
meeting
I
think
we
share
that,
and
it
was
very
necessary
I
mean
briefly
we're
here,
because
again
a
master
plan
was
put
to
eph
from
Full
Council.
It
went
to
eph
they
raised
concerns
and
made
comments.
It
came
to
four
counts
or
completely
unchanged,
and
full
Council
were
not
happy
with
it
tonight
that
one
cabinet
obviously
approved
it
now
now.
C
Here
we
are
at
scrutiny
because
of
of
events
and
at
last
with
some
explanations.
Okay,
on
my
negatively
say
a
lot
of
it
is
about
what
we
can't
do,
what
we
can't
afford,
but
at
least
we're
starting
to
understand,
and
so
that
says
to
me
that
the
master
plan
or
the
presentation
of
it
it
was
too
early
with
not
enough
meat
on
it
and
it
we
were
looking
I
think
we
were
expecting
a
proposal
and
you
know
that's
what
we
didn't
get
and
we're
hearing
a
lot
more
coming
along.
C
As
the
chair
said,
as
a
council,
we
might
well.
These
are
my
words,
but
we're
alluding
to
the
as
a
a
council.
We
do
need
to
decide
whether
we
want
to
spend
more
money
on
things
whether
we
actually
want
to
not
take
the
commercial
sensitivity
and
do
things
for
our
residents.
We
want
to
look
at
the
energy
we
want
to
be
costed
evaluated
properly.
C
We
do
we
want
this
to
be
an
Eco,
Leisure,
Park
and
there's
those
sort
of
things
so
I'm
a
little
confused
as
to
what
cabinet
actually
did
approve,
given
that
we're
now,
we've
opened
up
this
interesting
thing,
so
I,
don't
really
know.
What's
on
offer,
waiting
to
hear
what's
happening,
I
have
a
better
understanding,
so
in
in
a
nutshell,
yes,
I
think
you
have
taken
a
stage
of
addressing
our
concerns
and
with
your
recommendation
that
it
goes
to
task
and
finish
through
whatever
routes.
C
Our
concerns
are
on
their
way
to
being
alleviated
providing
cabinet,
except
that
and
we
get
on
with
it
and
we
all
chip
in
and
do
it
that
way,
so
all
I
can
say
is
what
are
we
80
of
the
way
there?
So
you
know
I
I,
don't
know
where
that
leaves
us
it'll
be
100
when
we
see
the
recommendations
taken
up.
So
thank
you
very
much.
I
Yes,
thank
you
chair,
so
thank
you
or
all
councilors
I
think
it's
been
an
informative
debate
tonight
and
and
I
get
the
sense
that
that
there's
there's
been
some
value
that
you've
taken
from
this
and
information
that
that
that
you
weren't
aware
of
is
now
is:
is
there
with
you
I
think,
there's
still
a
sort
of
an
issue
about
foreign,
the
concept
of
a
framework
master
plan,
and
but
we
we
the
the
point
about
the
the
the
the
framework
is
that
it
it's
it's
a
it's
a
mechanism
which
now
enables
us
to
to
to
to
move
forward
in
in
the
selection
of
Leisure
operators
and
I
confirm
that
it
it.
I
It's
always
been
Our
intention
that
we
would
work
with
councilors
existing
operators
on
the
park
residents
to
to
to
to
to
to
to
ensure
that
there
is
a
broad
level
of
support
for
for
what
we're
intending
to
do
in
what
is,
as
we
move
into
the
delivery
phase
of
of
the
new
Leisure
Park.
What
I'm
concerned
about,
though,
is
that
we
don't
end
up
having
more
talking
shops
and
so
forth
that
delay
the
whole
process,
because
I
I
think
our
residents
won't
be
happy
about
that.
I
They
they've
heard
enough
talk
and
they've
had
enough
consultation.
They
want
action
and
that's
what
I
I
that's
where
I
want
us
to
to
get
to
as
soon
as
possible,
because
it
has
taken
too
long
and
and
for
all
sorts
of
reasons,
but
so
I
think
that
there's
still
there's
still
some
a
difference
in
view
about
what
the
framework
should
should
be
providing,
but
let's
put
that
to
one
side
and
and
get
on
and
and
get
get
and
work
together
on
the
delivery.
A
Thank
you
right.
So
now
we
go
to
make
one
of
the
following
decisions
so
to
take
no
further
action
or
a
further
decision
back
to
the
decision
maker
for
reconsideration
setting
out
the
nature
of
the
committee's
concerns,
which
I
believe
is
the
one
we
have
chosen.
Everybody
in
agreement
agreed,
okay
and
that
was
and
I
think
you
got.
Did
you
get
that
Julia?
That
was
obviously.
T
Sorry,
just
for
the
for
Julia's
sake,
obviously
can
we
can
firm
the
concerns
that
are
going
to
be
referred
back
to
cabinet?
Thank
you.
N
A
I
think
I'll,
try
and
sum
up
in
a
few.
If
you've
got
any
problem,
I
was
going
to
say,
I
think
the
points
I
took
on
were
communication.
The
process,
the
some
of
the
the
classifications
of
things
like
the
master
plan
or
the
framework
it.
A
Expectations,
it
was
about
costings,
it
was
about
the
piecemeal
approach.
They
were
some
of
the
key
things,
the
need
for
a
vision.
Vision,
yes,
opposed
to
just.
A
A
Also
something
came
up
very
strongly
was
about
health
and
well-being
talking,
you
know,
looking
outside
beyond
the
scope
of
just
the
sort
of
the
Leisure
industry,
particularly
things
like
all
member
briefings
as
well,
and
that
sort
of
whole
thing
the
comms
and
process
I
think
are
one
of
the
biggest
things
that
came
out
as
to
why
we
are
why
we
are
where
we
are,
and
that
needs
to
be
looked
at.
A
Okay,
I
think
so
that
now
leaves
me
to
the
delightful
final
thing
on
the
agenda
just
to
close
the
meeting.
Thank
you
everybody
for
coming
along.
Thank
you
for
everyone.
That's
participated,
slow
down
chip.