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Description
If there is buffering on the YouTube stream, the webcast can be viewed through the council's website https://www.basingstoke.gov.uk/webcast
A
Good
evening,
everybody
welcome
to
audient
accounts
committee,
I
hope,
you're
strapped
in
for
the
roller
coaster
ride
there
is
I
will
start
with
the
fire
evacuation
procedures,
we're
not
playing
any
fire
alarms
for
this
evening.
Therefore,
if
the
fire
alarm
sounds,
please
evacuate
the
building
immediately.
A
A
I
also
have
a
note
about
the
use
of
microphones,
and
please
can
I
remind
members
and
officers
that,
in
order
to
be
heard
clearly
within
the
room
by
those
present
and
on
the
webcast
that
you
must
speak
directly
into
your
microphone,
the
microphone
stem
may
be
moved
so
that
it's
as
close
to
your
math
as
possible.
But
please
don't
move
the
base,
because
that
sets
where
the
webcam
cameras
Center
in
on
so
I'll
move
to
item
one
apologies
for
absence
and
substitutions
I've
not
received
any
apologies
for
absence
or
substitutions
this
evening.
A
Although
I
did
get
an
apology
that
councilor
slimming
couldn't
make
it
as
a
substitute,
so
I
think
we
can
take
it.
The
councilor
Huss
is
not
coming.
I
can't
see
him
here
it.
We
did
have
a
little
talk
just
for
the
meeting
actually
about
the
the
appropriate
process.
For
apologies.
Apologies
are
only
recorded
in
the
minutes
as
being
received
if
you
have
contacted
or
emailed
Democratic
Services
beforehand
and
or
if
you've
contacted
me
to
give
apologies.
A
Otherwise
it
goes
down
as
a
an
Unapologetic
absence
which
I'm
sure
you'd
all
love
to
avoid.
Moving
on
to
decorations
of
Interest,
are
there
any
Declarations
of
Interest
I'll?
Take
that
as
none
thank
you
item
three
urgent
matters.
Are
there
any
urgent
matters,
I've
not
been
advised
of
any
so
we'll
take
that
as
a
no
moving
on
to
item
four
minutes
of
the
meeting
held
on
31st
of
July
2023?
Are
the
committee
happy
that
the
minutes
of
the
meeting
held
on
31
July
2023
are
an
accurate
record?
We.
B
Do
we
have
to
get
councilor
Faulkner
to
accept
the
the
vice
chairmanship?
No.
A
It's
a
very
good
question:
Ken
I
I
was
just
about
to
congratulate
councilor
Forker
on
his
appointment.
I've
been
told
that
the
official
protocol
was
he
was
appointed.
Subject,
he's
confirmation
and
he
confirmed
some
weeks
ago,
but
I'm
quite
happy
to
get
him
to
say
in
front
of
all
of
us.
A
On
a
serious
note,
I'm
delighted,
I
believe
that
this
you
know
this
is
in
a
political
committee
and
I
believe
that
continuity
is,
is
important
and
so
I
was
delighted
that
Council
of
Auckland
accepted
and
was
nominated.
Thank
you.
A
Moving
on
to
item
five
internal
audit
progress
report,
July
to
August
2023
I'll,
ask
the
internal
auditor
Richard
Bevin
to
introduce
the
report.
D
Thank
you
Mr
chairman.
Yes,
so
this
is
the
progress
report
for
the
work
completed
by
the
internal
audit
team
just
for
July
and
August,
and
also
shows
the
current
position
with
outstanding
audit
recommendations.
As
at
just
about
the
13th
of
September,
it
was
the
last
updates
I
received
the
table
in
paragraph
4.1
of
my
report
on
page
13.
That
shows
the
audits
that
we
completed
during
this
period
and
the
level
of
assurance
that
was
given
to
those
audits.
D
So
it
was
one
full
two
substantial
and
one
reasonable
assurance,
and
the
summary
of
those
reports
are
dependencies.
Two
to
five
for
my
report
regards
to
recommendations
in
my
reports,
paragraphs
4.2
and
4.3.
They
summarize
the
position
and
the
the
recommendations
are
shown
in
appendix
one.
These
are
the
outstanding.
The
overdue
outstanding
recommendations
and
appendix
6
represents
the
remaining
outstanding
recommendations.
B
I
think
it
goes
without
saying
when
you
see
a
red
and
block
you,
your
eyes
are
directly
attracted
to
it
there.
Obviously,
this
is
it
network
security.
We
are
all
aware
of
greater
and
greater
threats
to
to
networks,
whether
they
be
Banks
boom
size
or
us
as
a
as
a
council
and
I'm
just
it
is
it
pertinent?
We
we
ask
the
questions,
because
lots
of
what's
the
local
government
have
been
under
threat
or
made
mistakes
in
the
delivery
of
their
Finance
to
certain
areas.
D
And
so
this
recommendation
obviously
relates
to
cyber
awareness
and
training,
so
the
only
update
I've
got
is
there
at
the
what
the
head
of
IT
provided
back
the
length
of
September
saying
that
they
are
planning
to
have
the
have
the
updates,
the
the
trainings.
You
know
sound
bites
and
everything
uploaded
I
haven't
got
any
more
update
beyond
that,
I'm
afraid.
B
Chair
can
I
ask
you
to
ask
the
head
of
it
to
update
us
on
it.
Well,
as
we
have
the
Boston,
we
might
as
well
ask
her,
though.
E
So,
actually,
at
the
request
of
the
chair
in
relation
to
the
next
paper
in
terms
of
the
corporate
risk
register,
he
did
ask
for
an
update
in
terms
of
all
things:
cyber
security
and
not
we,
you
know
wishing
to
jump
ahead
to
the
to
the
other
paper,
the
the
reason
why
the
level
of
risk
has
been
reduced
in
terms
of
the
risk
Matrix
around
the
corporate
risk.
E
So
I
think
the
issue
is
twofold
in
terms
of
our
own
Staffing
Resources,
the
ability
of
our
staff
and
the
training
that
they've
had,
but
also
the
other
technical
advantages
as
well.
So
in
terms
of
cyber
security.
E
Quite
recently,
the
team
has
been
restructured,
so
we
now
have
a
team.
Part
of
the
team
is
solely
responsible
for
all
things:
cyber
security,
but
there
is
knowledge
across
the
whole
team
in
terms
of
how
to
cope
with
that.
E
But
the
key
issue
is
actually
we've
updated,
a
number
of
our
technical
sort
of
backgrounds.
So
we've
got
a
new
network
architecture
which
actually
gives
us
more
sophisticated
access
in
terms
of
monitoring
and
behavioral
threat
platforms,
and
things
like
that,
so
it
actually
makes
it
easier
for
us
to
identify
potential
threats,
but
also
with
the
kidney
backup
system,
which
has
something
called
an
air
cap
very
technical,
but
between
the
data
and
any
ransomware
that
might
come
in
it
protects
our
data
from
that
ransomware.
E
So
there's
been
quite
a
lot
of
extensive
movement
forward
and
we've
done
a
massive
piece
of
work
with
d
luck
who
have
given
us
quite
a
substantial
amount
of
funding
as
well
in
terms
of
further
actions
that
we
could
take
to
further
improve
it.
I
think
the
other
thing
is
that
we're
a
very
active
member,
I'm
going
to
say
it,
but
I've,
never
I
didn't
write
it
down
this.
E
You
did
Paul,
it's
something
called
the
sea
walk
Forum,
which
is
really
about
risk
and
prevention
at
risk
around
all
things,
I.T,
which
is
a
sort
of
security,
focused
early
warning
sort
of
advisory
reporting
group
for
local
authorities.
E
So
we're
active
members
of
that
group
as
well
so
I,
think
in
terms
of
whilst
the
audit
recommendation
is
linked
to
officer
awareness.
So,
for
example,
when
we
do
the
fishing
sort
of
run
the
test,
we
get
a
number
of
members
and
officers
who
inadvertently
do
actually
go
in
and
open
the
links,
and
things
like
that.
So
again,
that's
more
around
that
training
and
helping
people
to
be
more
aware
in
terms
of
cyber
security
itself,
for
great
advances
in
terms
of
how
we,
as
an
authority,
respond
to
that.
B
E
So
I
can
get
a
full
response
from
that,
but
my
understanding
is
that
all
of
our
systems
have
been
reviewed
and
we've
taken
appropriate
action
on
each
of
those
in
terms
of
any
potential
risks
and
threats,
and
that
leads
into
the
piece
of
work
we've
been
doing
with
D
Lock
as
well.
A
I've
got
a
question
from
Council
testing,
but
I
also
aware
that
Paul
Gundy
wants
to
come
in
and
I
think
give
us
some
information
on
that
particular
point.
Yeah
thank.
F
F
In
terms
of
your
question,
Council
ratican
we've
got
the
audit
on
the
essential,
essential,
Financial,
essential
systems,
critical
systems,
which
is
also
called
for
so
we'll
be
looking
at
those
systems
that
determine
are
they
cloud-based
server-based
Legacy
systems
and
then
identifying
the
how
they
are
dealt
with
by
the
IT
team
in
terms
of
security.
G
Thank
you,
chair
I've
actually
got
a
couple
of
questions.
First,
one
is
actually
on
the
this
section,
the
appendix
one,
which
is
around
some
of
these
things.
Let's
talk
about
the
training
for
staff
and
things,
but
I
think
it's
very
important
to
remember
that
members
get
an
awful
lot
of
emails,
a
lot
of
external
sources
and
it's
very
important
that
any
training
should
also
be
or
any
sort
of
testing,
and
things
should
also
roll
out
that
way
for
maximum
safety
of
data
Etc
that
also
on
some
of
them.
G
E
So,
in
terms
of
all
of
our
systems,
we've
done
a
complete
portfolio,
review
of
all
of
our
systems.
They've
all
been
reviewed
and
looked
at
and
in
terms
of
tackling
them
that
they
are
risk
assessed.
So
we
will
go
through
them
and
so
obviously
most
of
our
major
systems
have
already
been
replaced
and
updated
and
I've
readily
looked
at.
But,
as
you
can
imagine,
we
have
hundreds
of
random
little
bits
of
software
here
and
there
they've
all
now
been
recorded
and
there's
an
action
plan
against
each
of
those.
G
Thank
you,
sorry,
I'm,
sorry,
right
so
appendix
to
climate
change.
This
obviously
very
good,
but
there's
a
little
bit
of
a
question
actually
around,
because
there's
talk
about
a
software
update,
module
thing
being
launched
and
I
couldn't
work
out
whether
it
had
been
launched
and
rolled
out
or
not
been
launched.
That
was
on
sort
of
page
21
and
22
seemed
to
be
a
conflict
in
info,
but
also
I
wondered
whether
there's
flexibility
being
built
in
around
what
we've
declared
like
the
ecological
emergencies.
G
Obviously,
there's
issues
around
water,
quality
and
I
appreciate
that's
not
within
the
council's
remit,
but
where
we've
got
that
are
we
flexing
and
making
sure
we're
we're
addressing
where
these
other
things
start
to
sort
of
have,
an
impact
which
is
all
around
the
climate
liaising
with
Partners
so,
for
example,
insulation,
the
Green
Team,
the
Rangers
team,
how
that
fits
in
with
the
risk
analysis
around
the
whole
whole
area.
A
Oh
I
know
Richard's
going
to
come
back
on
that.
I've
also
got
an
observation
that
we
had
considered
or
discussed
whether
or
not
these
internal
audit
reports
are
shared
with
the
cabinet
member
responsible
for
climate
change
and
I
believe
that
the
we
were
going
to
ask
committee
if
they
wanted
to
refer
that
back
to
the
officer
to
see
if
they
would
pass
that
on
that's
the
way
we
were
going
to
do
it
wasn't.
It
is
all
right.
E
So
I
think
we
agreed
that.
Obviously
we
would
just
go
back
to
the
officer
on
this
particular
one
and
just
say:
have
they
asked
the
question
and
if
they
could
have
share
it,
but
obviously
the
committee
feels
that
good
practice
would
be
to
share
all
of
these.
They
can
make
that
recommendation.
D
G
And
my
last
one
is
around
business
continuity,
because
I've
noticed
it
does
stay
in
there,
there's
been
a
lack
of
focus
over
the
last
few
years
and
a
bit
of
a
slow
progress
on
some
of
the
it
upgrades
and
obviously
business
continuity
is
one
of
those
things
that
tends
to
be
a
bit
of
a
poor
cousin
in
sort
of
corporate
practice,
because
it's
kind
of
like
you're
hoping
it's
never
going
to
happen.
So
I
just
wondered
what
the
sort
of
appetite
was
and
how
we're.
Looking
at
all
of
that,
it's.
E
Yeah,
so
there
was
a
lot
of
work
done
in
terms
of
updating
all
the
business
continuity
plans
prior
to
the
pandemic,
and
they
were
effectively
parked.
Whilst
we
went
through
the
emergency
planning
process
and
we've
already
tested
absolutely
everything
to
the
other
three
by
obviously
evidencing
that
we
can
actually
undertake
all
of
our
services
remotely
should
we
need
to,
with
the
exception
clearly
of
operations
team
so
what's
happening
now.
Is
that
we're
going
through
a
process
of
capturing
all
of
that
good
practice
and
all
that
activity
and
actually
updating?
E
Formally
all
the
business
continuity
plans?
Katie
Salas
has
now
taken
on
the
role
of
the
head
of
service
for
business
continuity
and
has
look,
you
know
and
there's
quite
a
lot
of
comprehensive
responses.
Actually
in
the
audit
report.
I
think
I
think
it's
next
week
or
this
week
or
next
week,
she's
actually
doing
a
formal
course
on
it.
E
In
order
for
us
to
actually
properly
inform
it
and
then
she's
already
started
organizing
updated
documentation
and
various
meetings,
and
that
needs
to
be
updated
and
we've
agreed
that
it
will
be
a
guinea
pig
because
effectively
of
it
goes
down.
We're
probably
doesn't
really
matter
when
we
so
they're
going
to
be
our
guinea
pigs.
So
it's
got
a
renewed
Focus.
A
B
Question
in
relation
to
that
or
yes
thank
you,
I
just
want
to
an
understanding
of
how,
if
Katie's,
getting
a
course
how
she
Cascades
that
down.
Could
you
just
explain
how
that's
done.
E
So
I
think
previously,
within
the
organization
we
haven't
had
an
officer,
that's
been
formally
trained
in
business
continuity,
so
as
Katie's
head
of
service.
This
is
for
her
to
understand
so
she's
already
had
a
look
at
all
the
business
continuity
processes
and
practices
within
the
authority.
She's
come
up
with
a
number
of
recommendations.
The
purpose
of
her
actually
doing
the
call
system
to
sense
check
what
she's
thought
we
should
be
doing
compared
to
perhaps
what
we
should
be
doing,
so
that
will
be
cascaded
down
through
all
the
activities
that
flow
from
that.
E
A
Thank
thanks
and
before
I
come
to
Richard
I
know
you
have
a
question.
What
I
would
just
add
on.
That
is
one
of
the
other
things
that
we've
been
talking
to
officers
about,
and
it
hasn't
come
forward
for
this
meeting,
but
will
for
future
meetings
is
we're
going
to
trial
capturing
an
action
list
that
attaches
to
the
minutes
and
so
that
sort
of
request
counciloratican
would
go
on
to
the
action
list
and
then
we
would
get
a
in
a
future
meeting.
A
We
would
know
that
it's
been
done,
who
asked
the
question
and
we
can
tick
it
off
and
move
on
in
order
to
try
and
just
make
sure
that
we've
got
a
little
bit
more
discipline
around
around
capturing
all
of
our
actions.
I
know
some
of
us
have
are
not
always
quite
sure
what
was
agreed
last
time
around
it
to
the
detail,
and
officers
have
also
said
that
they
would
benefit
from
that
so
Richard
Holt.
A
H
You
Chad,
it's
just
I
was
going
to
raise
business
continuity,
but
that's
been
I'm
glad
there's
a
lot
of
activity
there,
but
I've
got
two
general
points
on
appendix
six
really
for
the
audit.
I
just
wondered
when
there's
a
lot
of
significant
recommendations
for
one
particular
thing:
how
quickly
you
go
back
to
do
a
proper
audit
to
make
sure
they
have
actually
all
been
embedded
in
the
way
that
they
should
have
been
that's.
H
Why
I'll
give
you
both
questions,
because
they're
very
simple-
and
the
second
question
is
that
a
similar
one
really
but
I
wonder
if
you
could
tell
me
how
robust
the
process
is
for
delaying
the
implementation
of
recommendations.
I
mean
there
are
a
few
here,
not
as
many
as
I've
often
seen,
but
I
wondered
if
there
was
a
proper
formal
process
that
you
went
through
before
you
agreed
to
people
putting
back
the
implementation
of
recommendations.
Thank
you.
D
We
used
to
do
it
monthly,
but
we
don't
resourced
it
monthly
anymore,
but
prior
to
every
audit
committee
I'm
in
liaison
with
all
the
heads
of
service,
the
responsible
officers
for
the
recommendations,
so
Adam
is
usually
a
target
for
quite
a
few
recommendations
for
us
and
I
make
it
my
job
to
ensure
that
there
is
an
update
from
from
every
head
of
service,
and
something
we've
agreed
to
chair
recently
is
about
making
sure
that
they
recommend
do
follow-up,
represents
or
identifies
progress
to
the
recommendation
we
used
to
have
like
still
in
progress,
or
you
know,
no,
no,
no
action
taken,
which
it's
not
really
that
satisfactory.
D
So
we
do
get
a
make
sure
we
get
a
progress
response.
D
If
I
have
trouble
in
obtaining
responses,
you
escalated
up
to
either
pull
or
to
sue,
if
required,
to
make
sure
that
we
do
get
response
in
time
for
the
committee
so
that
they
can
see
whether
progress
has
been
made
been
made
or
not
yeah.
So
that's.
That's.
The
first
first
point
point.
H
On
that
now,
so,
if
I
might
I
mean
there's
one
thing
to
say
people
to
say
that,
yes,
they
are
doing
it
and
things
to
you
in
your
follow-up.
But
what
I
was
wondering
is
when
you
actually
Revisited
them
to
make
sure
that
the
whole
thing
had
been
done
properly
and
thoroughly.
And
the
other
point
was
about
the
delays
into.
D
So
we'll
take
the
second,
the
second
point,
so
with
regards
to
ensuring
it.
Obviously,
a
lot
of
the
audits
are
audits.
We
do
annually.
So
we
we
follow
up
the
audit
the
following
year,
but
we
do
obtain
evidence
of
any
completion.
So
if
our
head
of
service
says
yeah,
we've
completed
these
procedures
or
whatever
we
make
sure
we
get
a
copy
of
those
procedures
to
verify
that
they
have.
D
They
have
indeed
done
that,
so
we
did
get
evidence
to
show
that
it's
been
done
to
up
to
our
satisfaction
and
then
we
will
as
a
matter
of
course,
when
we
pick
up
the
audit
the
following
year,
then
we
will
address
the
same
issues.
A
E
Thank
you
so
I
think,
obviously
from
Richard's
point
of
view
in
terms
of
collating
all
that
information
and
getting
those
updates.
Clearly,
we
do
discuss
them
our
directorate
management
teams
and
head
to
service
one-to-ones
Etc
as
well
in
terms
of
so,
for
example,
in
my
directory
I'm,
having
those
conversations
in
terms
of
following
up
those
audit
recommendations
from
a
service
delivery
point
of
view.
So,
whilst
obviously
the
annual
order
will
pick
up
officially
I
am
you
know,
utilizing
the
information
that
comes
from
the
Auditors
in
terms
of
okay.
F
And
a
similar
thing
in
terms
of
the
extensions
of
time
where
we,
where
we
agree
to
those
I,
need
to
be
satisfied
that
there's
a
proper
action
plan
in
place
to
implement
recommendation,
because
we
do
acknowledge
that
there
are
some
recommendations
that
you
can't
Implement
immediately
and
they
may
have
a
month
to
implement
it.
But
we
know
realistically
it's
going
to
take
two
months
and
to
because
the
nature
of
that
recommendation,
but
from
my
point
of
view
providing
that
we
can
see
progress
through
that
two
months.
There
then
I'm
happy.
F
But
again,
that's
why
we
have
this
rigorous
process
and
this
appendix
in
our
reports.
So
it's
very
transparent
about
how
recommendations
being
addressed
and
if
there
are
non-progress
on
recommendations
that
the
committee
feel
they're
not
happy
about.
They
do
have
the
remit
to
call
that
relevant
head
of
service
to
explain
why.
But
we
try
to
avoid
that
by
ensuring
that
the
recommendations
are
being
progressed.
A
Great
I
just
had
a
couple
of
observations.
If
I
may,
the
I
think
the
the
bringing
forward
of
these
outstanding
audit
recommendations
and
Distilling
it
down
to
just
the
outstanding
ones
and
appendix
one
is
an
improvement
over
the
the
much
longer
list
that
we
had
last
time.
So
thank
you
to
the
officers
for
doing
that.
I
think
that
does
help
us
to
focus
as
well
as
a
committee
on
you
know.
What's
overdue,
rather
than
necessarily
what's
read,
what
is
red
is
important
as
well.
A
Thank
you
for
raising
that
councilor,
Vatican
I,
think
you
know.
The
pattern
of
these
reports
over
the
last
couple
of
years
has
been
that
there
are
some
service
areas
that
have
been
under
pressure
with
it.
With
audit
recommendations,
internal
recommendations,
it
tends
to
be
a
function
of
where
who's
been
audited
most
recently
and
also
with
some
some
recruitment
pressures.
Typically
so
I
mean
it's
been
like
this
for
a
while
and
I
believe,
that's
partly
why
it's
been
through
a
restructure,
so
the
organization
is
making
some
changes
to
address.
A
That
Paul
makes
the
very
good
point
that
we
can
ask
for
ahead
of
service
to
come
along
and
talk
to
us.
A
A
I,
don't
know
what
the
appropriate
timing
would
be,
but
I'd
look
to
officers
to
advise
on
that
to
just
advise
us
of
where
they
are
and
or
what
the
good
news
is,
because
I
I
do
agree
that
cyber
is,
if
there's
anything
amongst
we.
We
generally
have
a
very
clean
bill
of
health,
and
if
there's
one
thing
that
worries
us,
it
would
be
cyber
risk.
E
I
think
that's
absolutely
fine.
So
once
we
have
the
outcome
of
the
cyber
security
audit,
it's
probably
the
the
appropriate
time
to
actually
see
for
UC
to
come
along,
so
even
if
it
does
get
a
very
clean
bill
of
health
or
an
improved
status
from
last
time.
There's
no
reason
why
you
see
I'm
sure
you'd
be
very
happy
to
come
and
talk
to
you
about
it.
A
Great
thank
you.
Sue
I
also
have
here
just
an
action
from
councilor
tustin's
point
which,
with
a
nod
to
keep
in
the
action
list,
I
think
if
we
can
ask
the
the
head
of
it
to
add
counselors
to
the
training,
email
straight
videos
around
cyber
risk,
I
think
that
was
the
key
one
I
caught
there.
Thank
you.
A
If
there's
anything
else,
we'll
move
on
to
item
six,
which
is
oh
I,
need
to
ask
you.
Is
the
committee
happy
to
note
the
report?
A
We
move
on
to
item
six
review.
The
corporate
risk
register
I'll
ask
Paul
to
introduce
the
report.
Please
thank.
F
You
chap
this
paper
presents
the
committee
of
the
current
status
of
the
corporate
risk
register
and
it
does
take
the
usual
format
that
you
normally
see
with
this
report.
F
F
F
I
also
would
like
to
ask
the
committee
to
approve
the
minor
changes
to
the
risk
management
policy
that
have
been
made.
Those
minor
changes
are
in
paragraph
3.1,
on
page
48
and
for
information,
and
hopefully,
if
I
need
to
read,
we
have
a
highlighted
version
of
the
risk
management
policy
with
those
changes
in
appendix
4
and
Page
95
well,
I
tell
lies
page
six.
Nine
appendix
three
appendix
4
is
a
clean
version,
so
you
can
read
it
in
its
new
format.
So
I
wasn't
going
to
add
any
more
to
that
chair.
A
Thank
you,
Paul.
Are
there
any
comments
or
questions?
I've
got
Council
filler,
more
and
councilor
testing
Colin.
If
you'd
like
to
go
first.
I
All
right,
Paul
good,
to
see
you
I'm
on
page
51,
rr1,
Staffing
skills
and
capacity.
I
How
can
concerned
should
we
be
about
this
paragraph
which
says
the
challenges
when
the
Lego
Market
has
and
may
also
continue
to
impact
the
ability
of
external
providers
to
fill
fill
contracts
for
the
council,
such
as
the
waste
and
resourcing
provider
Circo,
because
there's
no
controls
and
current
status
columns
for
that.
But
we
need
a
reassurance
of
circo's
performance
criteria
and
how
it
affects
our
residents
and
I.
Think
I
think
that's
worth
common.
F
A
E
So
I
think
it's
interesting,
isn't
it
the
what
that
First
Column
is
trying
to
do
is
then
there
is
a
potential
risk.
What
the?
What
the
actual
document
then
looks
at
is
the
controls
and
the
current
status.
So
what
that's
trying
to
say
is:
what's
the
impact
on
Council
Services
if
Circo
is
unable
to
undertake
its
activity?
It's
just
it's
just
an
example
of
one
particular
external
contract
on
in
terms
of
that
particular
contract.
E
We
have
a
number
of
mechanisms
for
working
with
them
in
terms
of
making
sure
they've
got
the
appropriate
work,
work,
force
and
skills,
but
I
think
is
just
identifying
that
as
well
as
our
own
internal
capacity.
What's
the
impact
on
the
external
capacity
as
well,
so
currently
we're
not
experiencing
a
problem
on
that
side
of
things,
but
it's
just
recognizing
that
there
is
a
risk
that
we
need
to
make
sure
we're
taking
into
consideration.
A
C
Yeah
I
expect
later
we'll
come
on
to
the
the
issue
of
the
role
of
the
audit
and
accounts
committee.
But
one
of
the
confusions
that
has
always
been
is
that
the
kpis
for
the
contract
performance
Etc,
are
done
by
the
performance
panel
and
within
the
scrutiny
committee.
So
there's
this
subtlety
between
what
we
do
in
terms
of
the
ensuring
that
the
audit
and
the
processes
are
all
in
place
and
actually
then
looking
at
the
actual
performance,
which
is
in
some
ways,
is
outside
our
remit,
as
is
explained
in
the
super
recommendations.
G
Thank
you,
chair
first
thing
actually
is
a
request
about
report
formatting.
Would
it
be
possible,
in
the
actual
register
that
we
have
headings
repeated
across
each
page?
It
just
makes
life
a
lot
easier
to
read.
G
One
of
the
point
I
had
actually-
and
this
is
I
I
spent
a
bit
of
time
looking
at
this
because-
and
it
was
basically
because
we
have
end
up
with
an
awful
lot
of
things
that
end
up
lumping
into
the
medium
risk
and
when
you
look
at
the
and
I've
gone
through,
the
policy
and
I've
looked
at
the
way.
You've
worked
on
the
15
and
all
the
rest
of
it,
and
all
of
that
it
does
seem
very
sound.
G
But
the
fact
we
have
a
likely
heard
of
from
one
to
six
and
we've
got
something:
that's
almost
impossible
and
low,
for
example,
and
it's
like
where's,
where
is
the
difference,
and
some
of
this
I
think
is
possibly
down
to
you
know
the
words
that
are
used,
although
there
is
mathematical
buyers
put
at
you
know,
classification
put
later,
but
I
was
wondering
if
there
and
obviously
when
you
end
up
with
even
numbers
of
things.
G
Quite
often
it's
subjectively
people
are
more
likely
to
opt
for
something
that
sort
of
sits
somewhere
in
the
middle
and
I
just
wondered.
If
there
was
you
know,
even
if
it
was
that
there
was
less
on
the
likelihood
or
it
was
more
balance,
for
example,
that
you
might
end
up
with
some
of
those
things
in
the
middle.
Some
of
them
might
end
up
coming
out
as
a
higher
risk,
for
example,
and
some
of
them
may
well
still
be
correctly.
Medium
I
mean
I,
think
they
probably
are
okay,
but.
C
G
I
F
This
policy,
together
a
few
years
ago
in
terms
of
the
Matrix
and
to
ensure
it
wasn't
a
for
example,
a
4x4
grid,
because
then
you
definitely
do
get
the
scores
dropping
into
the
middle
and
so
I
think,
with
a
four
by
six
I'm
comfortable.
So
there
isn't
that
middle
middle
set
section.
F
So
because
we've
got
the
more
categories,
we
need
the
more
definitions
and
I'm
comfortable
with
how
we've
we've
done
that
it
seems
to
work
so
I
wouldn't
propose
any
other
changes
and
in
terms
of
definitions,
you
do
see
quite
a
lot
of
risk
management
policies
where
you
don't
actually
get
any
definitions
at
all.
F
B
You've
you've
put
down,
impacts
there
as
negligible
up
to
50
000
pounds.
I.
Think
a
number
of
our
residents
would
be
unhappy
to
think
50.
A
loss
of
50
000
pounds
is
negligible,
so
can
I
make
the
suggestion
that
negligible
is
reduced
to
25
000
and
the
marginal
25
000
to
3
million
I
I
think
genuinely.
If
we
were
to
have
an
impact
at
that
level,
people
go
that's
a
year
more
than
a
Year's
wages
to
to
the
average
guy
and
I
think
that
would
be.
F
I
think,
the
reason
why
we've
like
I'll
take
on
your
point
in
in
terms
of
everybody's,
has
a
different
View
and
different
thresholds.
But
what
we're
trying
to
do
is
do
this
from
a
business
point
of
view
and
I
do
appreciate
that
you
can
look
at
that
in
two
different
ways,
but
it's
got
to
be
the
impact
on
the
organization,
not
necessarily
a
view
of
a
member
of
the
public.
That's
what
we're
trying
to
do,
but
unless
I
think
Sue
might
want
to
add
to
that
soon.
E
I
think
it's
consistent
with
how
we
apply
that
across
other
activities.
So,
for
example,
in
terms
of
our
Revenue
monitoring,
we
give
it.
We
give
explanations
for
material
variances
over
50,
000
pounds.
It's
in
this.
It's
as
I
was
trying
to
say
in
the
scheme
of
the
the
overall
budget.
Is
it
material
not?
Is
it
necessarily
material
in
terms
of
service
provision.
B
I'm,
just
making
the
point
that
we've
put
on
record
that
that
we
regard
negligible
as
well
I
believe
it's
aloof,
50,
000
pounds
and
considerably
below
that
I
just
think.
If
anything
ever
appears
and
we
just
go
well,
it
was
negligible.
It
was
49,
000
pounds,
people
are
going
to
go
hold
on,
you've
got
it's
our
money,
I'm
just
making
the
point
in
I
understand
for
across
all
the
businesses
you
where
you
want
to
to
pitch
this.
But
our
point
is
that
we
are
councilors
representing
residents
who
might
not
feel
fifty
thousand
is
negligible.
A
A
A
I
Sue.
E
So
I
think
you
then
would
have
to
recognize
that
actually
what
they'll
do
is
it'll
just
push
it'll
push
the
potential
things
into
marginal,
but
in
terms
of
the
overall
impact
on
the
organization's
Finance,
because
that's
just
one
line
of
that
assessment,
it's
you
know
in
terms
of
is
there
a
financial
impact
to
the
council
in
terms
of
you
know,
less
than
50
000
is
something
that
the
council
can
manage
appreciating
its
public
sector
money
and
then,
therefore,
you
have
to
take
a
view
in
terms
of
what's
a
reasonable
sum
to
actually
be
explaining.
A
So
so
this
this
comes
to
here's
a
good
discussion.
This
comes
to
paper,
nine,
which
is
the
function
of
this
committee,
which
we'll
talk
about
in
more
detail.
One
of
the
things
that
really
came
out
of
that
was
that
this
committee
is
supposed
to
be
strategic
rather
than
operational.
I
completely.
Take
the
point
about
what
I
think
the
fashionable
phrase
is
the
Optics
of
what
that
looks
like
I,
so
on
an
advisory
basis.
I
think
we
would
advise
officers
to
look
at
it,
review
it
and
then
take
the
appropriate
operational
decision.
A
There
was
one
item
that
just
to
come
back
to
cyber
and
I
think
it.
It
fits
quite
nicely
with
the
other.
Questions
are
asked
about
how
the
risk
registers
structured,
I
had
a
question
about
under
1.2.
Why
what
confidence
we
had
or
what
had
changed?
That
meant
that
cyber
risk
moved
down
in
likelihood
from
four
to
three
from
significance
possible,
but
at
the
same
time,
down
in
Impact
from
catastrophic
is
critical
and
I.
A
Think
there's
just
always
a
danger
that
you
know
you
think
well,
we've
done
some
work
to
reduce
the
risk
and
then
the
two
things
move
lockstep,
but
they
don't
always
move
log
step.
So
I
and
I
I
know
that
Sue
has
an
update
on
on
1.2
there,
which
I
think
will
give
us
some
more
comfort
about
the
questions
that
were
asked
earlier.
E
So,
in
addition
to
OK
earlier
at
least
the
previous
paper,
when
we're
talking
about
cyber
security
and
we're
not
just
talking
about
somebody's
access,
the
systems
and
it's
all
crashed,
it
could
be
that
someone's
using
their
their
work
laptop
to
sell
personal
items,
for
example
that
comes
under
this
particular
category.
E
So
you've
got
your
email
and
your
internet
fraud.
You've
got
you
know,
theft
and
seller
corporate
data,
there's
a
whole
raft
of
things
that
sit
within
that
parameter,
copyright,
illegal
gambling.
These
are
all
things
that
sit
under
this
particular
remit.
So,
whilst
it's
very
easy
to
think
that
it's
just
that
one
really
big
issue,
there's
a
number
of
issues
that
we
take
into
consideration.
E
The
comment
from
the
head
of
service
is
that,
in
his
opinion,
we
have
good
proportion
and
appropriate
skills
and
processes
in
place
to
provide
protection
Assurance
against
cyber
security
risks,
and
he
obviously
he's
highlighting
the
fact
that
the
landscape
is
never
static
and
it
caught
it's
constantly
evolving
and
therefore
it's
impossible
to
be
100.
Effective
I.E
is
a
moving
Feast,
but
in
terms
of
the
approaches
we
that
we
have,
he
considers
the
this
to
be
an
appropriate
risk
assessment.
A
Thank
you,
Sue
I,
just
as
a
as
a
point
to
note
whenever
these
sorts
of
things
come
forward,
if
we
can
just
sort
of
scrub
them
for
plain
English
and
just
try
to
because
I
just
felt
that
one
that
was
in
there
was
double
speaks
not
the
right
phrase,
but
it
didn't
really
mean
much
to
me.
So
thank
you.
Councilor
Gaskell.
J
A
So
if
I
can
ask
the
committee
to
note
the
report
and
if
I
can
also
ask
the
committee
to
approve
the
changes
to
the
risk
management
policy
that
were
outlined
in
I,
think
it
was
1.3
agreed.
Thank
you.
A
K
Thank
you
chair.
So,
as
it
says,
this
is
the
trophy
management
report
for
quarter,
one
which
takes
you
up
to
the
end
of
June
2023,
which
is
obviously
a
couple
of
months
ago
now,
and
only
going
to
highlight
a
couple
of
key
points
in
this
paper
and
in
the
executive
summary.
The
total
net
income
for
the
year
is
still
forecast
to
be
4.68
million,
and
this
is
detailed
in
table
five
on
page
126.
K
K
This
is
detailed
in
table
two
on
page
120
and
the
other
other
point
I
was
going
to
highlight
was
that
table
three
on
page
122
shows
a
decrease
in
the
value
of
the
portfolio
of
270
000
for
the
quarter,
reflecting
Market
movements
that
time,
although
that
has
improved
over
recent
months
and
when
the
next
report
comes,
I
expect
that
that
to
be
a
a
positive
position
from
from
the
year
end-
and
that
was
all
I
was
going
to
say,
is
just
obviously
the
recommendation
is
to
make
the
report
at
this
stage.
A
Thank
you,
Adam.
Are
there
any
questions
or
comments
on
this
report.
B
Squeeze
a
question,
though
I
mean
obviously
we
we
look
like
we're,
maybe
peeking
out
on
interest
rates
at
current
time.
I
know
you
don't
do
forecasts,
but
will
we
see
a
leveling
off
of
our
income
because
we
should
have
seen
rising
in
cash
terms.
K
I
I
think
it's
safe.
Forecasts
are
for
interest
rates,
property,
Turf,
Peaks
or
near
the
peak
where,
as
this
suggests,
we're
on
track
for
our
for
a
budget
this
year,
we're
obviously
going
through
the
process
of
setting
the
budget
for
the
next
next
year
and
the
medium
term,
so
that'll
reflect
our
expectations
over
the
medium
term.
K
Obviously,
as
as
rates
sort
of
flatten
out,
the
yields
curves
again
have
the
impact
on
our
bond
prices.
So
we
will
see
the
valuation
of
the
actual
underlying
Bond
assets
might
improve
as
well.
So
the
the
the
long-term
value
of
those
will
likely
increase,
but
yeah
I
think
we're
probably
expecting
rates
to
remain
similar
levels
for
at
least
the
next
sort
of
year
or
18
months,
and
that's
that's
going
to
be
reflected
in
the
budget.
They'll
come
in
February.
A
If
there
are
no
other
questions,
I
have
a
question
for
the
community.
This
this
report
comes
to
us
quarterly.
I
understand
that
constitutionally
only
needs
to
come
to
us
every
six
months.
We
don't
have
to
give
a
yes,
no
tonight.
We
can
think
about
it
and
come
back
to
another
future
committee,
but
I
just
wondered
if
people
how
people
felt
about
receiving
this
paper
on
a
sort
of
half
annual
basis
and
just
with
one
eye
on
the
sort
of
weight
of
papers
that
come
to
this
committee,
Council
testing.
G
I
think
possibly
one
of
the
considerations
would
be
how
volatile
the
markets
are,
would
have
an
impact
with
them.
I
mean
at
the
moment.
We've
got
quite
a
lot
of
volatility
going
on,
but
with
this
at
the
moment
you
know-
and
certainly
if
everything
as
historically
in
the
last
10
15
years
might
have
been
a
lot
quite
sort
of
calmer
and
steadier
than
it
might
make
sense
every
six
months
but
I
you
know
having
it
there
and
having
a
chance
to
have
a
look
at
it
and
having
that
openness.
G
B
Ratskin,
chair,
I'm,
I'm
Keen,
to
have
it
quarterly
assess,
especially
for
the
next
18
months.
I
think
we've
got
our
political
changes
could
be
upon
us.
That
may
might
mean
volatility
with
the
markets
and
obviously
our
ability
to
fund
things.
That
may
not
happen
through
government
by
also
changing
that.
We
need
to
keep
an
eye
on
that.
Okay,.
I
Just
a
specific,
the
investment
homes
goes
up
the
30th
of
June,
specifically
the
supranational
one,
that
matured
on
the
14th
of
July
only
at
0.46.
But
what's
happened
to
that
since
the
14th
of
June.
K
A
Thank
you
I
think
loud
and
clear.
We
want
that
report
quarterly
as
well.
So
that's
fine!
Thank
you,
Adam!
It's
a
very
good
report.
Thank
you.
I
I
I'm
remiss
that
I
a
lot
of
I
work,
agencies,
reports
and
I
was
remiss
in
thanking
the
internal
Auditors
for
the
hard
work
that
they
put
in.
So
if
they
want
to
watch
this
back
on
rerun
video
tomorrow,
they
can,
they
can
collect
their
plaudits.
But
moving
on
to
item
eight,
oh
sorry,
is
the
committee
happy
to
note
the
treasury
management
course.
C
A
That's
persistent
error
for
me:
Isn't
it
quarter
one
annual
property
plan,
monitoring,
2023-24
item
eight.
We
we
have
the
cabinet
member
here
tonight
if
I
may
ask
Gavin
to
introduce
the
report.
Please.
L
Thank
you
chairman.
It's
actually
quite
a
sort
of
small
report
in
terms
of
its
content.
It's
not
been
a
month
of
completing
lots
of
stuff.
That
doesn't
mean
the
property
Department
haven't
been
very
busy
in
the
last
quarter
because
they
absolutely
have
these
deals.
L
Some
take
that
sometimes
take
time,
but
I
know
from
my
time
on
this
committee
that
it's
always
been
a
concern
about
the
amount
of
property
we
hold,
whether
it's
safe
and
whether
we
should
be
in
the
property
game
at
all,
so
I
I
thought
the
the
forward
I
wrote
was
very
much
pointing
towards
that
reassurance.
That
first
of
all,
the
property
portfolio
is
incredibly
important
to
us.
Councils
aren't
in
the
business
of
managing
property,
we're
in
the
business
of
providing
services,
but
they
have
to
be
funded
somehow
and
the
property
that
we
hold.
L
The
investment
property
we
hold
raises
18
million
pounds
a
year
plus,
which
is
more
than
anything
else
so
effectively.
I.
Think
it's
more
than
council
tax
and
parking
charges
put
together.
So
it's
very,
very
significant
value
is
obviously
fluctuates
very
similar
to
the
proper,
the
finance
stuff.
L
You
see
the
volatility
actually
is
less,
though,
because
whilst
values
fluctuate
is
actually
the
revenue,
because
the
value
of
anything
is
the
price
someone's
prepared
to
pay
for
it
at
the
point
you
want
to
get
rid
of
it
and
that's
the
critical
bit
that
last
bit
until
you
sell
it,
the
value
is
fairly
irrelevant.
It's
the
revenue
that
matters
to
us
and
it
raises
lots
of
Revenue.
Obviously,
there's
been
lots
of
press
around
local
authorities,
very
Overexposed
to
the
property
market
and
land
for
themselves
in
financial
difficulty.
L
As
a
result,
we
are
in
a
very,
very
different
position.
Most
of
those
authorities
borrowed
money
at
sort
of
three
percent
to
buy
lots
of
property
and
make
five
percent
and
when
they
need
to
get
their
sort
of
pay,
those
loans
back
and
rehire
the
money
or
re-lend
them
up
reborrow
the
money.
They
were
now
paying
six
percent
interest
with
property
earning
five
percent,
and
then
it
becomes
a
liability
rather
than
an
asset
and
a
gain
we're
not
in
that
world.
L
All
the
property
we
own
is
what
we
own,
mostly
Freehold
land,
to
be
honest,
but
which
takes
us
away
from
the
risk
of
rack
and
other
things.
So
it's
a
very
safe
way
of
storing
our
money,
but
also,
most
importantly,
getting
that
return.
Obviously,
there
was
a
property
strategy
that
was
adopted,
I
think
in
February
2022
read
through
it,
don't
think,
there's
any
need
to
change
it.
L
The
current
investment
strategy
essentially
means
that
the
money
we
have
tied
up
and
property
remains
tied
up
in
property,
it'll
be
recycled,
we're
not
going
to
add
to
our
property
portfolio,
it's
being
enough
to
be
versatile,
so
we've
got
retail,
we've
got
warehousing,
we've
got
offices,
lots
of
different
kind
of
buildings,
as
one
market
goes
down
and
another
one
goes
up
and
we're
sort
of
hedging
ourselves
so
and
that's
pretty
it
is
that
reassurance
really
that
it
is
quite
safe
and
it
is
actually
delivering
good
stuff
for
us
at
the
moment.
L
Obviously,
what
it
does
do
as
well
is
gives
us
the
advantage
that
we
can
kind
of
shape
the
local
economy.
We
can
shape
local
policies.
So
very
much
within
that
investment
strategy
is
how
do
we
make
buildings
Greener,
as
when
the
lease
comes
up
for
re-gear
or
a
property
becomes
available?
What
do
we
do
with
that
property?
And
how
do
we
reduce
climate
change
or
climate
change
impacts
whenever
we
do
always
a
fine
balance
between
revenue
and
capital?
L
Obviously,
sometimes
it's
better
to
sell
a
property
get
the
capital,
because
we
can
do
something
better
with
it
to
generate
even
more
Revenue.
So
really
just
a
reassurance
that
nothing's
not
much
is
showing
this
month
in
terms
of
completions
we're
very
much
sticking
to
the
format
and
we,
you
know
any
deals,
we
do
jll
Partners
come
in,
they
advise
us,
so
we
get
second
opinions
and,
of
course,
Martin-
and
this
team
are
incredibly
experienced
and
understand
everything
written
about
building.
So
that
was
it.
A
Thank
you,
councilor
James
councilor.
Ask
him.
B
Thank
you.
It's
just
good
to
see
a
short
report
from
you,
it's
rare
in
your
time
as
councilman
anyway,
you
touched
on
very
quickly
the
the
quality
of
our
properties
and
meeting
a
climate
change
need
and
requirement
what
what
capital
sums
are
set
aside
for
that
and
I've
got
other
questions
as
well.
L
We
obviously
the
climate
change
Reserve,
which
is
probably
more
looking
at
our
operational
properties.
At
this
stage
as
I
say,
we
don't
actually
own
a
lot
of
properties.
We
had
a
lot
of
Freehold
land
and
the
properties
go
on
them
so
where
we
don't
own
the
properties
it's
owned
by
a
different
company,
we're
not
going
to
put
our
money
onto
their
roof
as
it
were,
we'll
encourage
them,
obviously,
all
the
time
to
to
do
what
they
can
when
the
lease
comes
up
for
regale
for
renegotiation.
L
If
someone
was
to
surrender
release,
obviously
those
negotiations
happen,
and
then
we
look
at
how
can
we
make
sure
that
building's
put
back
to
good
use
in
whatever
use
it's
going
to
be?
And
how
do
we
make
it
greener
in
the
process?
And
every
deal
we
look
at
is
how
do
we
tackle
it?
There's
not
much!
You
can
do
about
a
building.
That's
not
yours!
That's
not
coming
up
for
at
least
for
another
100
years.
B
Are
we
all
notes
section
9,
which
is
property
age
debt
and
the
escalation
of
of
that?
Can
I
ask
what
the
cabinet
the
administration
is
doing
to
retrieve
some
of.
A
That,
okay
can
I
I'll
cover
that
one
actually,
if
I
may
or
Sue
mate,
it's
just
that.
We
talked
about
it
earlier
and
we
think
so.
A
previous
meeting,
one
of
this
committee
asked
for
historic
data
so
that
we
had
comparators
and
we
have
updated
and
we
have
comparative
data,
but
I've
been
reliably
informed
that
we're
not
quite
sure
we're
comparing
apples
with
apples
here,
and
so
we
think
that
might
be
an
error
in
that
data.
E
Information
has
got
the
new
three-month
invoice
on
it.
So
therefore,
it's
including
debt-
that's
not
actually
due
yet,
whereas
the
other
one
has
actually
been
adjusted.
So
this
is
kind
of
a
work
in
progress,
we'll
make
sure
it's
updated
for
next
time,
but
there
isn't
an
escalation
in
the
overall
kind
of
level
of
debt.
B
Sure
Council
sure,
if
I
may,
obviously
we
all
are
aware
of
the
problems
that
retail
are
having
and
we
have
large
Holdings
in
the
mouth
and
some
of
those
those
tents
are
unfortunately
leaving
us
we'll
call
an
example
of
that.
B
L
Well,
there's
not
a
lot
we
can
do
for
struggling
businesses
and
I.
Think.
The
reason
for
wilcoast
demise
might
be
more
one
of
the
products
they
they
offer
and
the
composition
they
face
and
obviously
I'm
more
worried
about
the
staff.
We've
worked
so
hard
to
keep
the
store
going
and
hope
that
they
can
find
new
work.
L
A
lot
of
the
property
that
is
in
the
mouths
is
not
directly
leased
by
us.
We
lease
it
to
an
organization
who
then
leads
it
on.
So
it's
not.
It's
obviously
always
a
risk
at
the
moment,
particularly
retail,
but
that's
why
we
have
the
diversification
in
terms
of
actually
warehousing
is
doing
incredibly
well
at
the
moment,
because
the
Amazon
van
needs
to
stop
off
every
30
seconds,
so
obviously
we'll
try
and
make
sure
the
site
is
used.
C
I
think
just
as
quick
as
I
meant
to
check
the
year-on-year
figure
so
but
forgot,
but
I
think
I'm
writing
sound
that
the
the
income
is
slightly
up
on
year
on
year.
What
was
last
year
compared
to
this
year's
valuation
of.
M
A
Thank
you,
Martin
councilor,
James,.
L
Just
that
knots,
it's
that
what
we've
seen
is
because
interest
rates
have
gone
up.
Suddenly
government
bonds
are
rather
a
bit
more
exciting
than
they
were
when
interest
rates
will
sit
in
a
sort
of
0.5.
So
when
you
think
of
the
property
Market
as
something
that
insurance
companies
and
Pension
funds
like
to
invest
in
now
for
a
long
time,
whilst
lower
interest
rates
were
low,
property
was
a
very
exciting
business.
To
get
into
that
demand
has
gone
away,
there'll
be
a
sort
of
say.
L
The
valuation
fluctuates
when
interest
rates
come
down
and
you
can't
get
a
nice
safe,
Government
Bond
for
sort
of
five
percent
return
anymore,
that
you
might
more
likely
to
start
looking
at
property
again,
so
the
value
will
fluctuate,
as
said
before,
the
value
of
anything
is
set
by
what
someone's
prepared
to
pay
for
at
the
moment
you
sell
it
and
that
we're
not
selling
property
right
now,
unless
it's
the
right
deal
for
us,
then
it
you'll
just
see
it
go
up
and
down
I'd.
Imagine
you'll
go
up
very
much
like
the
bottoms
funds.
L
We've
got
exactly
the
same
thing.
The
government
bond
funds
that
sit
at
a
two
percent
interest
aren't
as
exciting
as
the
brand
new
ones
at
five
percent.
That
will
change
over
the
next
couple
of
years.
So
it's
nothing
to
be
concerned
about
it's
constantly
being
monitored,
particularly
sector
by
sector,
and
we
make
sure
that
our
property
portfolio
is
is
sort
of
a
say
hedged.
So
we
can't
find
ourselves
in
a
difficult
position.
L
G
Sure
yeah
my
questions
actually
talk
about.
If
we
end
up
with
empty
buildings
and
I'm
Council
James,
you
just
mentioned
that
we
let
buildings
out
through
another
company.
How
do
we
manage
the
risk
on
that?
Do
we
end
up
with
any
empty
buildings
where
we're
not
getting
income
and
they're
actually
incurring
costs
for
us,
or
are
we
protected
that
or
are
there
some.
L
There'd
be
very
few
because
generally
they're
on
really
long
leases,
so
the
only
potential
problem
comes
when
the
person
who's
leasing
that
that
land,
if
they
become
into
financial
trouble,
which
obviously
not
everyone's
going
to
the
same
time
again
same
thing.
We've
got
various
organizations
that
are
leasing.
L
Land
offers
very
different
businesses,
so
we've
got
it's
big
in
our
property
run,
is
big
enough
to
sort
of
be
defendable
against
that
sort
of
one
collapse
in
one
industry,
but
obviously
it's
more
about
the
image
of
the
borough
and
actually,
if
it's
an
empty
property,
that's
when
it
becomes
on
to
the
property
team's
radar.
L
So
we
don't
ignore
releases
100
years
left
on
the
lease
Let's,
ignore
it
not
worry
about
it
for
the
next
99
years
with,
say
it's
empty,
it's
Tatty
and
then
we'd
look
at
what
we
can
do
to
support
the
owner,
bringing
it
back
into
a
the
lease
leaseholder
to
either
surrender
their
lease
or
look
at
some
deal
without
risking
the
council's
money.
But
we
obviously
want
all
our
property
to
be
active
and
be
adding
to
the
economy
and
the
well-being
of
the
borough.
A
M
Yeah,
the
vacancy
rates
in
the
portfolio,
particularly
low
I,
think
as
a
percentage
of
income.
It's
about
2.50.
M
M
That
particularly
buildings
might
become
vacant.
We
can
act
quickly,
address
issues
with
those
buildings
as
well
if
they
do
become
vacant
to
make
them
a
worse
as
sustainable
and
do
some
work
and
just
improve
the
quality
of
the
portfolio
generally.
A
A
Moving
on
to
item
nine
audit
accounts
committee,
review
of
effectiveness,
so
thank
you
Adam
for
your
work
on
this.
This
is
something
that
audit
committee
started.
Last
year,
we
looked
at
the
Sip
for
guidance
in
the
context
of
appointing
an
independent
or
lay
member
who
is
now
with
us
Richard
and
during
the
course
of
that
we
identified
that
we
hadn't
done
a
review
of
our
own
Effectiveness
and
or
looked
for
I
guess
constant
Improvement
So
Adam
has
produced
quite
a
lot
of
sip
for
guidance
there.
A
It's
it's
it's
quite
a
it's
quite
a
read:
there's
quite
a
lot
to
take
in
I
I'll
be
interested
in
what
people
felt
really
well
Adam
I
should
let
you
introduce
the
paper.
Sorry
sorry,.
K
It
was
it's
the
request
last
in
previous
committee
meetings
to
to
review
the
effectiveness
came
up
in
discussions,
and
this
is
for
guidance
and
position
statements
quite
a
useful
framework
for
the
committee
to
consider
your
role
and
take
it
take
stock
of
where
you
think
you
could
improve
and
enhance
your
Effectiveness
and
one
way
to
do
that
is
if
I
have
produced
a
self-review
for
committee
members
to
undertake,
which
is
which
is
one
method
of
doing
it
and
purpose
of
bringing
this
to
committee
was
really
to
understand
your
views
to
have
a
bit
of
debate.
K
I.
Think
obviously
chair
you,
you
have
some
views,
but
welcome
others
as
to
how
you
would
like
to
take
this
forward
and
identify
sort
of
areas
for
training
or
or
changes
to
the
committee,
and
that
might
be
required.
A
Thank
you
Adam,
so
the
the
questionnaire
itself,
the
self-assessment
questionnaire,
is
on
page
two,
two
three
to
two
two
six
It's
tricky
to
fill
out
and
I
think
it's
perfectly
acceptable
to
leave
gaps.
Council
Faulkner.
C
Yeah,
the
questionnaire
I
I
had
problems
with
that
in
some
ways
in
that
is
asking
you
for
an
opinion.
Now
it's
the
classic
thing
I
might
think.
I
know
nothing
about
a
subject
and
the
person
sat
next
to
you
thinks
no
you're.
You
actually
know
everything,
and
so
your
subjective
answers
may
not
actually
be
an
accurate
reflection
of
your
ability
or
whatever,
so
that
questionnaire,
I
I
found
problematic
to
actually
fill
out.
C
What
to
do?
Having
said
that,
I
thought
they
said
the
document
was
super
I
wish
we'd
had
it
10
years
ago,
when
I
first
came
on
the
committee,
and
actually
it
matches
our
constitution
extremely
well
in
explaining
what
is
the
role
of
the
committee,
it
would
have
clarified
over
the
last
few
years.
An
awful
lot
of
complexities
about
this
committee
was
always
wanting
to
delve
into
issues
which
come
under
other
committees
and
the
the
slippery
view
makes
it
very
clear.
This
committee
is
an
advisory
committee.
C
They
should
not
be
delving
into
aspects
of
performance
that
the
remit
of
scrutiny
whatever.
So
it's
a
very
good
document,
there's
one
small
thing
that
I
really
liked-
and
that
was
this.
It
says
there
should
be
no
substitutes
on
this
committee
because
it's
very
it's
very
Pro.
The
committee
becoming
reasonably
comparable
competent
as
individuals
over
a
period
of
time
and
I've
known
in
my
time
on
the
committee.
You.
C
So
the
sip
of
paper
addresses
that
sort
of
problem,
so
I
was
really
quite
I'm,
usually
quite
cynical
about
these
things,
when
I
thought
that
one
was
actually
was
very,
very
helpful,
yeah
I
think
that's
it.
Thank.
H
Was
only
going
to
say,
I,
don't
think
you'll
find
any
audit
committee
that
doesn't
have
substitute
members,
but
the
trick
is
that
they're
included
as
part
of
the
committee.
So
if
you
do
any
training
or
anything
else
that
you
expect
them
to
attend
as
well,
so
there
is
well
trained
as
the
members
who
come
to
the
committee
I
think
that's
the
thing
that
they
say
thank.
B
A
Subject
to
voters
obviously,
but
thank
you,
no
I
think
it's
a
really
important
point
and
I
I
we've
talked
to
well
Sue
and
Adam
and
I
have
talked
about
this
paper
at
some
length
and
about
the
best
way
to
approach
the
self-assessment
I.
A
Think
the
the
the
start
of
a
ten
is
that
we
feel
these
questionnaires
in
as
best
we
can
that
if
you
not,
if
there's
a
gap
and
you're,
not
sure
it's
fine
to
leave
it
out,
because
that
identifies
that
we
make
the
training
need,
there's
no
right
or
wrong
answers.
A
I
think
is
the
other
thing
to
say
there,
and
if
everyone
wants
to
do
that
by
I,
think
it
was
the
end
of
October,
then
we'll
add
and
we'll
collate
all
of
that
and
bring
back
a
recommendations
paper
in
November
we've
talked
about,
you
know,
let's
say
five
or
six
things
come
out
of
this
I'm,
not
planning
to
put
the
committee
Under
Pressure
offices,
Under
Pressure,
to
deliver
lots
of
changes
quickly.
A
G
Thank
you
chair.
You
welcome
this.
You
know
because
I
know:
we've
had
some
fraught
fraught
meetings
here
and
I
know:
I
felt
a
bit
lost
over
time
and
I've
expressed
that
view.
So
I'm
really
really
pleased
to
to
see
this
direction
of
travel.
I
think
is
excellent
and
one
thing
I
think
quite
agree:
I'm
glad
we're
getting
some
guidance
on
how
to
go
about
with
this
questionnaire.
I
think
that's
really
good
too,
but
one
thing
I
think
might
be
worthwhile.
G
Considering
is
as
a
committee
that
we
actually
have
like
a
have
a
scrutiny
of
of
the
results
and
obviously
with
Adam
will
probably
come
up
with
a
recommendation
which
may
well
come
out
with
that,
but
I
think
then
we
can
then
discuss
what
the
answers
are
around
it.
So
if
we
see
there
is
massive
discrepancy
or
if
there
is
a
general
feeling,
but
if
if
people
have
misinterpreted
things,
I
think
that
would
pick
up
on
some
of
the
things
councilor
Faulkner
said
where
you
don't.
Perhaps
we've
missed.
G
E
So
I
think
what
the
plan
is,
because
there's
two
ways
of
doing
that
you
could
complete
the
questionnaire
as
a
committee.
But
then,
if
you
have
some
strong
views
within
the
committee,
you
don't
necessarily
get
the
individual's
thought
process
and
you
don't
understand
their
training.
So
the
idea
being
is
that,
if
everyone's
prepared
to
have
a
go,
if
there's
any
specific
questions,
you
want
to
ask
myself
or
Adam
whilst
you're
trying
to
do
that.
We
can
obviously
answer
those
for
you.
E
What
Adam
will
then
do
is
he'll
put
all
that
together
he's
not
going
to
go
and
Council
testing
said
and
so
on.
It
will
be
a
kind
of
actually.
This
is
kind
of
the
average
of
what
came
out
the
purpose
being
is
that
it
then
leads
to
a
discussion
at
the
November
committee
meeting
about
do
we
all
agree
with
this.
E
Well,
you
know
and
that's
where
you
get
that
chance
to
kind
of
sort
of
moderate
it
if
you
like
in
terms
of
actually
what
is
the
committee's
response
overall
and
then
obviously
from
that
we
will
have
an
action
plan,
potential
training
needs
and
a
prioritization
activity.
K
Can
I
just
check
as
well?
Obviously
the
the
questionnaire
is
available
in
the
PDF
format.
Here
I
did
do
a
Microsoft
forms.
Everything
which
is
there
is
a
link
in
the
paper
and
I
can
circulate,
which
makes
collecting
responses
easier,
and
it's
this
format,
it's
just
ticks,
Vox
I
think
it
makes
it
easy
anyway,
so
who's
laughing
there
is
that
the
way
you
would
like
to
deal
or
would
you
rather
do
the
PDF
and
I
can
send
a
the
interactive
pdf
version
where
you
can
just
click
the
Box?
K
K
A
So
one
of
the
other
things
we
just
passed
around
earlier
was
the
two
pages
from
our
Constitution,
which
or
our
that
forms
our
terms
of
reference.
Essentially
we
don't
have
a
separate
paper.
That's
terms
of
reference
is
contained
in
our
main
constitutional
document,
and
so
that's
reproduced
for
you.
There
so
you'd
have
to
go
and
look
it
up.
Save
you
a
bit
of
time.
A
A
Item
10,
the
audience
accounts
work
program.
A
So
you'll
see
we
have
I.
Think
the
the
November
meeting
is
is
a
shorter
item
of
work
list.
So
you
you
had
some
coins.
A
A
H
Something
about
the
external
audit,
where
I
chaired
the
annual
buying
your
conference
of
directors
of
financials.
We
before
last
and
one
of
the
speakers
came
from
the
financial
reporting,
Council
Neil
Harris
who's
now
in
charge
of
sorting
out
the
mess
of
auditing
and
he's
very
confident
on
Friday
I,
wasn't
very
confident
not
as
confident
as
him
anyway,
but
the
we
are
guaranteed
a
ministerial
statement
in
November
and
at
that
point
the
586
585
now
you've
signed
off
yours
unsigned
accounts
will
be
disposed
of
either
by
qualification
or
disclaimer.
H
Watch
this
space,
I
I'm
put
me
down
as
being
somewhat
skeptical
about
that.
How
and
that,
but
the
thing
is
the
trick:
is
they
can't
carry
on
with
the
2023
audit
and
which
has
been
Palm
paused
by
all
the
external
Auditors
because
they're
waiting
then
after
the
ministerial
statement
there
has
to
be
actually
approval
of
the
audit
outlines,
and
that
has
to
be
parliamentary
because
it's
a
statutory
thing
and
so
they've
got
to
find
time
in
parliamentary
time
to
do
that
and
Mr
Harris
from
the
financial
reporting.
H
Council
was
very
confident
that
that
would
be
done
before
Christmas
I
found
to
fail
to
share
his
confidence
in
that
tool
really,
but
it
means
they
can't
get
on
with
the
23
order,
and
so
we're
still
in
a
bit
of
a
we're
still
in
a
mess,
because
we
don't
really
know
what
we're
doing
23
and
before
we
get
to
the
23
we'll
be
in
the
24.
Won't
we
so
we
you
know
it's
some
improvement.
There's
a
long
way
to
go
on
this
I
think
so.
A
A
Our
papers
came
forward
a
couple
of
times
and
we're
later
than
usual,
but
they
are
signed
off
for
2022
and
I
believe
that
the
Auditors
are
still
to
tell
us
when
they
were
coming
to
do
the
2023
audit
and
it
is
later
than
officers
would
like,
because
they
believe
that
they
are
ready
or
almost
ready.
So.
H
Because
it's
been
put
on
pause,
so
they
they.
Oh
you
know
statutory
banned
from
starting
on
the
23
I
think
did
the
pension
fund
audits
in
places,
but
they
can't
do
the
ordinary
Audits
and
I
would
say
that
amongst
this
586
accounts
that
were
outstanding,
there
is
an
authority
with
15
16
not
yet
signed
off.
So.
A
E
Internally,
obviously,
I'll
draft
accounts
are
up,
and
so
obviously
we
are
waiting
the
Auditors
to
inform
us
when
they're
coming
in.
Whilst
they
have
indicated
quarter
four
of
the
current
Financial
year
again,
as
Richard
has
said,
that'll
be
very
dependent
on
whether
they're
actually
allowed
to
come
in
undertake
the
audience.
So
we
will
do
as
much
priority
work
as
we
can
share
as
much
information,
but
until
they
actually
have
a
complete
audit
guidelines,
they
can't
finalize
those
dates.
K
Not
a
problem
and
just
to
add
to
Richard
I
think
the
the
plan
was
for
20
that
they're
effectively
going
to
put
in
backstop
dates,
where,
if
audits,
aren't
complete,
that's
where
a
disclaimer
or
a
modified
opinion
would
come
in
for
the
22
23
I
think
that
backstop
date
is
planned
to
be
September
end
of
September
next
year,
so
that
is
effectively
the
window
there
they're
proposing
to
work
in.
K
Obviously
it's
subject,
as
Richard
have
said,
to
to
parliamentary
timetables
and
and
things
and
I
I
was
on
a
call
with
again
with
Neil
and
and
D
luck
and
that's
that
was
kind
of
that.
Their
confidence
there
that,
but
that
was
a
few
few
months
ago
and
it
doesn't
seem
to
have
moved
on.
So
we
shall
see.
A
I
just
noticed
we
don't
have
an
aop
on
the
agenda,
but
there
is
one
item
of
aob.
Just
let
you
know
there
is
a
regional
audit,
chair,
meeting
online
I
think
it's
next
week,
which
I
will
be
attending
so
I'm,
hoping
to
share
experiences
and
or
ideas
with
audit
chairs
in
the
southeast.
A
If
you
think
of
anything,
you
want
me
to
raise
or
ask,
let
me
know
before
I
think
it's
Monday,
but
on
that
point,
I
will
call
meeting
close
at
7
44.
thanks
for
coming.
Thank
you
for
your
participation
and
we'll
see
you
in
January.