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From YouTube: Under the Microscope: Chris Beams and Utility Tokens
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A
A
A
little
but
I've
been
looking
forward
to
this.
This
is
totally
it's
totally
something
that
I've
been
curious
about,
and
really
you
know,
as
we
were
talking
about
before
he
got
on
air
I
was
very
skeptical
of
utility
tokens
and
just
put
them
in
the
crap
coin
category,
with
with
all
the
other
99%
of
fraud.
That's
in
the
space
until
I
came
across
your
project
and
we
started
talking
and
so
yeah
I'm
really
really
interested
to
dig
into
this
with
you.
A
So
so
bisque
is,
is
a
really
cool
project
and
I
definitely
want
to
do
an
episode
just
to
talk
about
that
and
decentralized
exchanges.
But
today
we're
gonna
focus
on
is
utility
tokens
sort
of
in
general
and
then
also
how
you
guys
use
them,
which
you
could
also
say
that
what
you
guys
are
doing
as
a
dhow.
A
So,
if
anybody's
familiar
with
the
the
original
Dow,
the
idea
was
to
basically
create
a
all
of
the
functions
inside
a
company
or
maybe
you'd,
say
inside
a
venture
capital
firm
in
that
case,
but
do
it
do
it
in
decentralized
and
secure
in
anonymous
way,
and
so
what
you
guys
are
doing?
A
slightly
different
but
but
still
replicate
some
of
that
stuff,
so
yeah,
maybe
you
can
just
kind
of
give
me
an
overview
of
what
you
guys
are
doing
it
bisque.
Actually,
let's
take
a
step
back.
B
I
was
bisques
original
project
name,
and
this
was
all
just
on
the
heels
of
nontox.
Failing
not,
coincidentally,
read
that,
spurred
on
you
know
a
whole
lot
of
people
to
think.
Oh,
my
god.
We
must
find
a
better
way.
We
have
to
get
away
from
centralized
exchanges
and
all
the
risks
that
they
pose,
and
so
that
really
fueled
the
development
of
what
has
now
become
bisque.
B
So
so
that's
you
know
a
little
bit
how
I
got
involved
and-
and
you
know,
along
the
way-
it's
been
a
you
know,
like
a
huge
yeah
I
often
say
this
is
the
greatest
intellectual
adventure
I've
ever
been
on
in
my
life.
Really,
you
know
from
the
from
the
moments
of
discovering
Bitcoin
and
and
going
deeper
and
understanding
what
was
behind
it,
and
you
know
the
thinking,
the
philosophy
of
the
economics,
the
politics
yeah.
A
I
wanted
to
ask
you
about
that,
so
so
you
got
interested
in
Bitcoin
in
2013.
Did
you
and
so
for
me?
I
got
interested
in
Bitcoin
years
after
I
got
interested
in
economics
like
I,
really
had
to
learn
about
security
in
economics
a
long
time
before
it
clicked
that
Bitcoin
made
any
sense
for
you
was
it
the
opposite?
Did
you
get
interested
in
Bitcoin
and
then
it
sounds
like
you
got
interested
in
economics
and
anarcho-capitalism
in
the
cyberpunk
movement
yeah.
B
It's
a
little
hard
to
remember:
it's
probably
revisionist
history,
to
try
to
patch
it
all
back
together,
but
I
know
that
I
know
that
you
know
really
coming
to
understand.
Bitcoin
was
the
kind
of
prime
event
there
and
that's
what
you
know
then
caused
me
to
go
down
the
path
of
reading,
Ralph,
bard
and
all
of
that
stuff.
You
know
just
just
one
stumbling
step
of
time:
there's
sort
of
no
no
guide
really
to
reading
this
stuff.
It's
just
one
thing
inevitably
after
another.
B
This
is
what
it
is
to
go
down
the
rabbit
hole
right,
but
yeah,
but
you
know
it's
funny
when
I
even
now,
you
know
what
is
that
2012?
What
does
you
know
2018?
So
that's
something
like
going
on
six
years
of
this.
It
seems
like
at
every
every
few
months
or
so
I
look
back
at
the
former
iteration
of
myself
on
this
on
this
path
and
I.
Think,
oh,
my
god,
what
an
idiot
I
was
three
months
ago,
the
things
that
I
thought
were
true
or
the
things
that
I
thought
made
sense.
B
You
know,
and-
and
there
was
a
you
know-
I
kind
of
had
a
hiatus
in
2015
I
went
back
to
my
sort
of
more
familiar
open
source
territory.
I
went
back
into
a
team
outside
of
the
Bitcoin
world
for
about
a
year
and
when
I
came
back
in
in
you
know
or
sort
of
early
last
year,
but
back
in
the
decline
space
back
to
rejoin
the
best
team
and
get
deeply
involved
there
again.
B
B
This
is
where
it
got
bumped
up
to
yet
another
level
and
I
really
started
to
take
seriously
the
cypherpunk
movement
I
realized
that
I
hadn't
fully
internalized
what
this
was
all
about
and
it
and
it
kind
of
the
switch
kind
of
flipped
for
me
from
like.
Oh,
there
were
some
people
on
a
mailing
list.
You
know
in
the
90s
right
for
calling
themselves
the
cypherpunks
wait
a
minute.
This
is
a
right
now
hyper
relevant
movement,
gaining
momentum,
as
we
speak
that
anybody
can
be
a
part
of
by,
as
I
think
was.
B
It
was
a
Jameson
life
the
other
day,
tweeting
about
self,
proclaiming
that
they're
part
of
it
right,
of
course,
in
an
anarcho-capitalist
world
in
a
cyberpunk
world,
you
need
no
permission
to
be
eccentric
right.
What
you
need
to
do
is
advocate
the
use
of
privacy,
protecting
technologies,
ideally
right
code,
but
not
necessarily
a
requirement-
and
that's
where
you
know
for
me,
with
with
something
like
bisque
at
my
at
my
fingertips
and
that
had
been
so
involved
with
it
kind
of
dawned
on
me,
ironically
after
having
had
so
much.
You
know
time
with
this
project.
B
A
I'm
really
surprised
that
I
I
would,
as
I
expected.
Your
story
was
gonna,
be
a
little
bit
more
like
you
know,
I
was
on
the
mailing
list
back
then,
and
you
know
I
got
distracted
and
worked
on
other
things.
Maybe,
but
but
bisque
is
such
like
it
really
I
mean
as
far
as
my
own
personal,
you
know,
security
priority
list
for
Bitcoin,
it's
pretty
much
lightning
and
then
decentralized
exchanges
and
then
maybe
snide
genes.
So
it's
so
critical
and
it's
so
central
that
is
it.
I
mean
it's
incredible
that
somebody
but
I
mean
look.
Jr.
A
A
So
pretty
pretty
incredible,
awesome,
yeah,
I
guess
the
only
other
thing
I
was
thinking
that
I
think,
but
I
think
is
worth
saying,
is
how
incredible
it
is
that
that
all
of
us
that
have
read
Rothbard
and
you
know,
read
Tim
May
and
are
into
Bitcoin
had
to
piece
it
together.
You
know
ad
hoc
just
by
stumbling
around
when
at
the
same
time
there's
a
Mises
Institute.
It's
basically
dedicated
to
the
memory
of
Rothbard
and
in
his
writings
and
for
everybody
that
doesn't
know.
A
So
there's
there's
a
there's,
some
really
interesting
fractures
that
happen,
that
or
just
weird
connections
that
don't
seem
to
be
fully
connected.
That
I
think
is
somewhat
responsible
for
for
the
chaos
they
have
to
go
through
piece
of
this
stuff
together,
but
yeah
really
really
interesting.
Okay,
so
so
bisque
is
a
decentralized
exchange.
A
You
know
for
the
purpose
of
this
conversation,
it
allows
you
to
buy
and
sell
period
here,
so
it's
kind
of
like
local
bitcoins
calm,
but
it's
software
and
it's
a
protocol
that
allows
those
connections
to
happen.
But
what
we're
gonna
focus
on
today
is
the
the
bisque
token,
so
tell
me
about
why
you
guys
decided
to
create
another
token
and
not
just
use
Bitcoin
and
kind
of
what
what
its
purpose
is.
Yeah.
B
So,
just
to
flesh
out
the
picture
a
little
bit
for
those
who
don't
have
context.
So
so,
like
you
said
it's
it's
software,
meaning
like
it's
a
desktop
application.
It's
you're
actually
downloading
a
client
with
with
bisque.
You
know
very
much
like
you
download,
Bitcoin
core.
If
you
want
to
run
a
node
right,
you're
on
a
bisque
node,
you
download
the
client
software
and
you
run
that
locally
and
and
that's
what
everybody
is
doing
it
on
the
network.
B
B
So
if
you
don't
know
bist
and
just
but
you
do
know
something
about
Bitcoin
and
Bitcoin
nodes,
and
so
on
bitcoins
peer-to-peer
network,
you
can
kind
of
roughly
analogize
that
to
to
bisque
and
it's
all
running
on
top
of
the
tour,
that's
sort
of
our
transport
layer
and
so
on.
So
so
the
way
that
that
bisque
has
been
working
for
now
well
to
next
month,
it'll
be
two
years
that
we've
been
in
production.
B
We've
been
developing,
it
like
I,
said
since
2014,
but
we
went
live
on
bitcoins
maintenance
in
April
of
2016,
so
so
we've
been
doing
live
trading
on
this
ever
since,
which
you
know,
there's
no
downtime,
no
major
incidents
etc,
and
the
way
that
that
the
project
has
gotten
by
during
that
time.
The
way
that
it's
been
funded
essentially
is
really
two
ways.
One
is
out
of
pocket
right
now,
just
bootstrap
like
like
any
like
any
startup,
might
be
right,
even
though
we
don't
call
bisca
startup
to
just
think
about.
B
You
know:
hey
we're
founders,
who
have
some
savings
and
can
pay
our
own
bills
for
a
while,
and
that's
what
we've
been
doing
so
and
everybody
contributing
has
been
in
that
boat,
but
bisque
has
always
had
a
built-in
funding
model
by
design,
which
is
that
people
pay
trading
fees,
just
like
you
would
in
any
exchange
arrangement,
people
pay
trading
fees
in
Bitcoin
every
time
they
make
an
offer
to
trade
or
anytime.
Someone
takes
an
offer
to
trade
and
I'll
just
digress
briefly
here,
because
people
have
to
understand
that
bisques.
B
The
way
that
best
trading
works
is
pretty
different
than
normal,
centralized
exchanges.
Usually,
when
you
think
about
going
to
you,
know
g
dax
or
bitstamp,
or
you
know,
name,
a
cracking
popular,
centralized
exchange,
you're,
typically
dealing
with
with
a
centralized
order
book
that
does
automatic
order
matching.
So
people
you
know
say
basically
I
want
to
buy.
You
know
a
quarter
of
a
bitcoin
and
it's
just
instantly
fulfilled
that
order
and
you're
you're.
You
know
fiat
account
is
instantly
debited
for
the
equivalent
amount
of
dollars
or
euros
and
that
bitcoin
is
credited
to
you
right.
B
That's
that's
the
typical
scenario.
Bisque
is
quite
different
right.
It
really
is
truly
peer-to-peer,
so
ours
isn't
an
order
book,
but
rather
an
offer
book.
So
it's
individuals
showing
up
on
the
network
with
their
best
clients,
making
offers
like
hey
I,
would
sell
here's
an
offer
to
sell
a
quarter
of
a
Bitcoin,
any
takers
right
and
then
they're
gonna
wait
for
somebody
to
come
along
and
take
that
order
that
offer
pardon
me
it
sort
of
no
automatic
or
imagining
it's
really
a
coordination.
B
You
know
platform
protocol
network,
that's
helping
individuals
find
each
other
and
and
then
work
directly
together.
So
when
people
do
that,
when
someone
makes
an
offer,
they
pay
a
fee
and
likewise
when
someone
takes
an
offer,
they
pay
a
fee,
so
those
are
maker
and
taker
fees
and
those
are
paid
in
Bitcoin
and
those
those
fees
go
directly
to
the
arbitrator
that
gets
selected
for
each
trade
on
bisque.
So
there's
a
number
of
arbitrators
that
are
just
other
peers
on
the
network.
B
They
have
so
far
been
the
founders
of
bisque
right
there,
just
kind
of
bootstrapping
trust
in
the
system.
The
original
arbitrators,
our
bisque
founders
right.
We
can
talk
more
about
how
we
scale
that
out.
That
has
a
lot
to
do
with
the
bsq
token,
but
we
can
leave
that
aside.
For
a
second,
when
people
pay
their
trading
fees,
they
pay
it
in
Bitcoin
and
that
Bitcoin
goes
directly
to
the
arbitrator,
that's
selected
for
those
randomly
selected
for
their
trade.
In
case
they
need
them.
B
A
So
that
founders-
currently
you
guys
you
guys-
do
get
compensated,
but
only
when
you're
acting
as
an
arbitrator,
you
guys
don't
get
paid.
For
you
know
software
development
bug
fixing
marketing
advertising
you're,
not
getting
compensated
for
this
interview
right,
those
sort
of
those
sort
of
things
and
what
you
want
to
be
able
to
do
with
bsq
is
you
want
to
be
able
to
compensate
people
and
reward
people
financially
for
all
those
other
sorts
of
contributions
beyond
just
being
the
arbiter
right?
Exactly.
B
This,
this
kind
of
early
phase
that
the
bisque
has
been
in,
where
arbitrators
are
the
only
ones
getting
compensated,
has
basically
worked
out
because
in
very
early
days
it's
actually
the
same.
The
self-same
individuals
that
are
doing
arbitration
and
most
of
the
development
and
most
of
the
interviews
and
that
other
than
that
right,
okay,.
A
So
so
wait
yeah.
That
makes
sense.
Why
don't
you
just
use
right
now?
You
accept
Bitcoin
when
somebody
does
a
trade
as
a
fee
and
then
you
give
that
Bitcoin
to
the
arbiters
or
arbitrators
and
and
that
that
works
fine.
But
you
want
to
compensate
people
for
other
activities.
Why
don't
you
just
compensate
people
and
Bick
for
those
other
activities?
A
B
Yeah
get
sticky
really
fast
right.
So
so,
if
we
just
look
at
how
the
arbitration
arrangement
works,
it's
it's
essentially
perfectly
decentralized
by
design
right,
however,
many
arbitrators
there
are
in
the
system
they
get
distributed.
All
of
the
fee
payments
in
in
a
kind
of
randomized
way.
This
arbitrator
gets
chosen
at
random.
That
arbitrator
gets
chosen
random
and
the
fees
get
distributed
across
the
the
pool
of
arbitrators.
B
Basically
perfectly
now,
if
you
put
something
into
the
mix
like
let's
say
running
our
website
right,
you
know
like
managing
the
DNS
and
keeping
up
to
date
with
you
know,
SSL
Certificates
and
like
who
knows
whatever
right
right,
just
normal
normal
maintenance.
There's
there's
nothing
at
the
protocol
level,
like
in
bisques
trading
protocol,
where
we
can
incorporate
that
in
a
in
a
well-defined,
totally
objective
and
totally
decentralized
way.
You'd
have
to
make
some
call
upfront
saying
that,
well,
the
website
maintainer
gets.
You
know:
X
percent
distribution
of
all
trading
fees,
yeah.
A
That's
not
practical,
so
why?
What
about
just
some
sort
of
well?
How
do
you
do
it
with
the
token
you
still
end
up
voting
right,
so
so
people
that
are
part
of
the
the
bisk
project
they
vote
on
contributions
made
by
people
and
that
that
ends
up
resulting
in
them
getting
paid
is
that
is
that
fair?
Is
that
right
at.
B
B
That's
natural
thing
that
people
think
of
is
like
okay,
well,
just
keep
sending
all
the
payments
to
the
arbitrators,
and
then
the
arbitrator
is
you
know,
are
responsible
for
for
for
spending
those
payments
out
to
all
of
the
other
contributors,
maybe
based
on
voting.
You
know
based
on
some
sort
of
reasonable
protocol
right,
and
this
doesn't
work
either
right,
because
here
we're
pooling
funds,
so
if
you're,
so,
if
you're
looking
to
take
down
a
system
like
this,
you
just
just
follow
the
money
right
like
who
has
the
who
has
the
money
who
has
the
Bitcoin?
B
Oh
there's,
like
you,
know,
n
number
of
arbitrators
and
they
hold
on
to
all
of
this
money.
You
know:
that's
that's
just
too
much
risk
right
and
it's
too
much
power
like
you,
don't
want
those
people
having
having
having
all
those
funds
and
you
could
you
could
pull
it
all
together
into
a
multi-sig
arrangement
and
then
you
could
have
you
know
some
M
of
n
arrangements
where
people
you
know
have
to
co-sign,
but
Bitcoin
is
really
not
ready
for
this.
B
Yet
right
so
yeah
Bitcoin
has
multi-sig
transactions,
but
you
know
the
M
of
n
values
all
have
to
be
pretty
low
right.
You
can't
really
get
more
than
you
know
a
dozen
or
so
signers
practically
into
a
multi-site
arrangement
that
stuff
all
may
change
in
the
future,
with
mast
and
other
sort
of
you
know
things
that
are
coming
down
the
pipeline
with
Bitcoin,
but
today,
right
now,
it's
not
practical
to
to
design
a
properly
decentralized
sort
of
funding
distribution
system
based
purely
on
Bitcoin.
B
You
know
for
all
of
our
research
for
all
of
our
attempts
to
do
that
and
think
about
it.
There's
there's
no
way
that
we
can
see
with
today's,
but
going
to
do
it
so
what
we,
so?
What
we've
done
right
to
get
so
into
what
bsq
actually
is
so
esq
is
yeah
a
utility
token
that
doesn't
say
too
much
until
you
get
into
the
details,
and
most
important
characteristic
is
that
the
SQ
is
ultimately
Bitcoin
right.
So
it's
a
bit
coin
based
colored
coin
and
people
have
been
around
the
space
here.
B
Have
you
know,
heard
the
term
colored
coin,
I'd
venture
to
guess,
and
most
people
you
know
hearing
this,
probably
never
interacted
with
a
colored
coin
like
actually
done
anything
with
colored
coin
there,
this
kind
of
mythical
beast
right,
some
theoretical
idea
out
there.
It's
never
really
never
really
sees
the
light
of
day
for
various
reasons,
but
that's
what
that's
what
bsq
actually
is
we've
taken?
B
B
A
A
just
a
recap:
real
quick:
if
you
wanted
to
create
a
new
token,
you
could
do
it
on
aetherium.
But
that's
that's
a
security
nightmare
throughput
nightmare.
It's
not
a
good
idea
in
any
possible
way
or
you
could
use
something
like
colored
coins
on
Bitcoin,
which
is
basically
you
have
a
you,
have
a
Bitcoin
and
you
just
treat
that
differently.
So
it's
still
a
Bitcoin,
it's
a
little
fraction
of
a
Bitcoin,
but
you
also
have
a
system
that
recognizes
that
that
particular
bit
going
to
have
additional
value.
A
So
you
you
can
you
can
have
an
address
with
one
Bitcoin
in
it.
You
say:
okay
for,
for
the
purposes
of
our
system,
any
Bitcoin
that's
ever
sent
from
this
particular
address
is
going
to
be
not
just
Bitcoin
but
also
bsq,
so
you
can
kind
of
think
of
it
as
being
both
and
then,
when
you
move
that
around
you
know
it
can
get
transferred
around
it
can
get
split
up
even
but
but
that,
but
bsq
will
still
recognize
that
Bitcoin
or
Bitcoin.
That
goes.
A
B
Right,
yeah,
and
so
so
a
nice
way
to
think
about
what
a
colored
coin
is
here
is:
is
that
you
know
if
it's
a
Bitcoin
base,
colored
coin
it
of
course
has
to
be
through
and
through
Bitcoin
asked
to
adhere
it's
every
one
of
the
bitcoins,
normal
validation
rules,
etc.
But
then,
on
top
of
those
normal
Bitcoin
validation
rules,
there
are
additional
validation,
rules,
bsq
validation
rules.
So,
for
example,
one
of
those
would
be
well.
How
does
something
ever
become
bsq
in
the
first
place?
B
Well,
there's
the
genesis
distribution
that
we
talked
about
that's
kind
of
like
a
special
case
where
we're
coloring
an
existing.
You
know
set
of
Bitcoin
into
the
SQ
for
the
first
time,
but
then
there's
a
danubius
queue
get
created
over
time
and
the
answer
to
that
is
through
this
process
of
voting.
We
can
get
more
into
the
details
of
this.
B
You
can
imagine
validation,
rules
that
say
if,
if
a
if
a
certain
percentage
or
a
certain
number
of
people
who
already
hold
vsq
use
that
bsq
like
voting
chips,
to
approve
the
creation
of
new
bsq
to
pay
people
who
have
done
work
to
compensate
contributions,
then
those
news,
those
satoshis,
become
bsq
right.
So
there's
there's
issuance
transactions
where
a
new
bsq
gets
created
and
there's
also
destruction
of
bsq
in
the
system
as
well.
B
So
basically
at
a
high
level,
without
going
in
any
of
the
details,
when
people
do
work
when
they
maintain
the
website
or
write
code
for
bisque
or
to
an
interview
or
whatever
it
is
anything
that
adds
value
to
bisque
to
the
this
network,
to
this
user
is
whatever
anything
that
adds.
Value
is
eligible
for
compensation
and
so
a
contributor
who
did
that
work
can
submit
what
we
call
a
compensation
request.
All
right,
I
mean
they
submit
a
compensation
request
that
this
happens.
B
Monthly,
existing
vsq
stakeholders
vote
again
with
their
dsq
and
if
they
vote
to
approve
that
compensation
request,
new
the
SQ
are
created
and
awarded
to
that
contributor.
Now,
when
people
spend
bsq,
the
only
thing
you
can
spend
the
SQ
on
is
trading,
so
you
can
pay
your
trading
fees
and
disk
using
bsq
like
I
said
before
you
can
pay
in
Bitcoin
too,
but
you
can
pay
in
bisque
and
bsq
at
a
discounted
rate,
because
there's
an
incentive
to
actually
acquire
the
SQ
for
traders
in
the
first
place.
B
There's
an
incentive
to
spend
it
because
you
get
the
trade
cheaper
right
and
the
people
when
people
actually
spend
their
bsq
on
their
trading
fees,
that
the
SQ
gets
destroyed,
gets
taken
out
of
circulation.
There's
validation
rules
that
say
that
gifts
you
can
never
be
spent
as
bsq.
Again,
it's
just
a
normal
Bitcoin
again
right.
A
So
so,
at
the
end
of
the
day,
after
all,
the
mechanics
is
done.
You
have
this,
you
have
this
token,
it's
secured
with
a
Bitcoin
network,
and
you
know
it's
a
colored
coin,
all
the
things
that
we
talked
about,
but
you
have
this
token
and
the
token
allows
you
to
to
buy
services
right
to
pay
trading
fees.
You
get
a
better
rate
so
so
effectively.
A
You
know
you're
incentivized,
to
use
bsq
to
pay
all
of
your
trading
fees
you
don't
have
to,
but
that's
the
that's
the
that
would
be
the
logical
thing
to
do
if
it's
not
too
much
of
a
hassle
because
you
get
to
do
it
for
cheaper.
So
now
we
have
this
decentralized
exchange
that
solves
a
real
problem.
It
allows
people
to
buy
and
sell
crypto
currencies
and
also
exchange
fiat.
You
know:
do
bank
transfers
so
there's
real
value,
that's
created
in
this
network.
A
The
only
way
we're
the
best
way-
man
I,
won't,
say
the
only
way,
but
it's
the
best
way
to
pay
for
this
service
to
use
the
software
and
to
compensate
the
creators
of
and
the
operators
of
it
is
to
acquire
bsq
and
then
do
that
that
ends
up
creating
a
market
value
for
bsq,
that's
above
and
beyond
the
value
of
the
Bitcoin.
So
it
might
be.
A
You
know
a
Satoshi
worth
of
Bitcoin,
but
the
market
value
is
three
dollars,
because
you
could
use
that
one
Satoshi
a
Bitcoin
since
it's
a
it's
really
a
bsq
token
as
well.
In
order
to
pay
fees
to
do
a
trade
that
would
otherwise
cost
you
$3
worth
of
Bitcoin,
or
maybe
you
know,
$30
worth
of
Bitcoin
because
of
the
discount
or
whatever,
and
so
so,
at
the
end
of
the
day.
We
have
this
thing:
it's
it's
useful
to
pay
fees
for
a
system,
that's
useful,
and
it
also
allows
you
to
vote.
A
So
it's
also
sort
of
like
a
share
in
a
project
in
the
sense
that
you
you
get
to
decide
who
gets
hired,
who
gets
compensated
and
really
the
direction
of
the
project
as
well
right.
So
you
could
could
use
that
to
vote
on
whether
you
guys
are
gonna
have
a
feature
or
not
add
a
feature.
How
does
that
work
when
it
comes
to
the
sort
of
the
open
source
software
development
process?
Yeah.
B
So
there's
a
kind
of
general.
You
know
maxim
that
we
try
to
follow,
which
is
vote
as
little
as
possible
right
voting
sucks
in
general,
so
don't
vote
if
you
can
possibly
avoid
it.
You
want
to
do
know
what
I'm
gonna
be
more
like
more
like
you
want
to.
You
want
to
hum
together,
like
the
IETF.
Does
right,
like
people
can
look
up
humming
in
the
IETF.
You
want
to
like
work
together
to
get
rough
consensus
on
stuff.
B
So,
if
you're
making
decisions
about,
you
know,
okay,
should
this
feature
be
implemented
or
whatever
you
want
to
have
conversations?
You
don't
have
arguments
you
want
to
have
discussions,
don't
bring
contentious
things
to
a
vote
right
that
that's
that
sucks,
that's
politics
right,
so,
just
like
in
general,
while
we
have
a
voting
mechanism,
our
intention
is
to
use
it
as
little
as
possible.
B
So
that
again,
like
happens
every
month,
is
our
current
kind
of
period
and
and
and
the
way
that
works
is,
is
not
sort
of
one-person
one-vote,
but
it's
every
every
bsq
token
is
sort
of
one
voting
chip.
So
whoever
has
the
most
esq
has
the
most
voting
poll,
and
that's
quite
intentional,
because
it's
all
designed
as
a
meritocracy
when
we
did
that
initial
distribution
that
I
mentioned
of
the
two
and
a
million
vsq
who
that
was
distributed
to
was
all
of
the
past
contributors
that
ever
added
any
value
to
bits.
B
A
Makes
sense
but
I
think
one
of
the
one
of
the
things
that
you
know
people
are
thinking
when
they're
thinking
about
utility
tokens
is
this:
why
not
use
Bitcoin
right
and
I
get
that
you
need
to
somehow
decide
how
to
count
or
who
gets
compensated
right.
So,
ultimately,
it
falls
back
to
a
voting
and
I
get
that
you
want
to
minimize
that,
because
that's
not
ideal,
but
when
it
comes
to
compensating
people
and
like
accepting
trading
fees,
you
could
still
use
Bitcoin.
B
I'm
sure
you
could
work
out
such
a
scheme.
You
haven't
thought
about
it
in
exactly
those
terms,
but
the
thing
with
with
these
with
everything
I'm
talking
about
here
is
happening
on
chain,
essentially
right.
So
these
these
voting
transactions
are,
you
know,
people
are.
People
are
like
literally
voting
with
the
Bitcoin
transaction
they're
voting
with
their
dsq
with
their
colored
coin
right.
But
when
they're
voting
you
know
were
packing
bits
into
into
opera
turn,
and
so
on.
B
You
litter
that
are
saying
you
know,
basically
one
for
this
compensation
request,
zero
for
that
compensation,
request
or
negative
one
or
whatever
right.
You
know
you
know.
So
is
it
two
hundred
fifty
six?
You
know
slots
available,
you
know
and
we're
doing
that
all
on
chain
right,
so
you
could.
You
know
who
kind
of
starts
separating
stuff
out
and
having
having
separate
systems,
but
it's
all
quite
integrated.
B
A
My
as
I
was
thinking
this
through
I
was
thinking
the
reason
that
you
guys
wouldn't
want
to
do
that,
even
if
you
could
is
that,
ultimately,
this
comes
down
to
being
able
to
compensate
control
a
contributors
more.
So
if
you
guys
have
twenty
five
Bitcoin
right
now
and
you
just
hand
those
out
to
existing
contributors,
and
somebody
shows
up
tomorrow
and
and
builds
a
great
feature
you
guys
are
broke,
you
don't
have
any
Bitcoin
and
you
have
a
revenue
stream
of
new
Bitcoin
coming
in.
But
it's
a
you
know
like
any
new
startup.
A
The
revenue
stream
is
insignificant
for
the
first
five
years.
Right
like
it
just
it's
there's
nothing
there,
but
it's
it's
growing
exponentially
right,
so
even
nothing
growing
exponentially
or
near
nothing
starts
becoming
something
eventually.
But
if
you
had
somebody
that
said,
hey
I
want
to
work
full-time
on
this,
but
I
can't
afford
to
work
full-time.
You
know
you
know:
I
got
to
eat
right
and
I
have
a
family
to
take
care
of,
but
I've.
You
know,
I'm
a
have
been
a
developer
for
twenty
years.
A
On
top
of
my
game
and
I'll
work
for
half
of
my
of
market
rate
you'd
be
in
a
position
where
you
couldn't
do
anything
and
that's
sort
of
the
whole
reason
that
we
have
shares
right
and
any
startup.
The
idea
is
you
don't
get
paid
what
you're
worth,
but
you
get
shares
in
the
company
and
if
the
company
is
successful,
you
end
up
getting
more
than
compensated
for
your
contribution
and
for
the
risk
that
you
took
early
on.
So
you
can't
do
that
at
least
that
aspect
of
what
I
see
is
going
on
with
risk.
B
Definitely
right
and
I
mean
that's,
that's
absolutely
important
to
the
to
the
whole
model
that
we've
put
together,
but
there's
a
big
caveat
right,
which
is
like,
whereas
it's
a
well-known
model
today
to
you
know
it's
a
take
on
to
take
on
a
certain
amount
of
risk
and
to
take
on
employee
stock
options
and
equity
right
in
a
start-up
right.
Lots
of
people
know
that
model
lots
of
people
have
been
through,
and
you
know
individual
contributors,
employees
in
the
normal
startup
world
are
just
evaluating.
B
Well,
what's
my
risk
tolerance
versus
how
much
do
I
believe
in
this
project?
Do
I
think
it's
gonna
go
well?
Is
you
drive
basically
do
I
think
there's
going
to
be
an
exit
where
I'm
going
to
be
rewarded,
for
you
know
taking
lower
than
market
pay,
but
I'm
gonna
walk
out
with
you
know
a
big
bunch
of
equity.
It's
gonna
be
worth
a
whole
lot
of
something
right.
Like
people
know
that
model
and
people
can
evaluate
that
fairly
well,
they
might
be
wrong,
but
but
we
at
least
know
it
can
work
in
this
situation.
B
A
Yeah
I
mean,
but
on
the
other
hand,
I
don't
think
very
many
people
that
are
working
for
a
start-up
have
any
sort
of
way
of
evaluating
the
likelihood
that
they're
gonna
get
and
a
lot
of
the
solution
to
that
is
that
outside
investors
are
involved
right.
So
you
have
angel
investors
and
you
have
VCS
and
in
bisques
model
that
would
be
people
that
bought
bsq
as
a
speculative
investment.
A
And
what
that
would
do
is
it
would
create
a
market
value
for
bsq
or
it
would
increase
the
market
value
for
bsq
and,
as
you
sold
it,
to
additional
speculators
right
additional
in
in
sort
of
start-up
world
language,
additional
angel
investors
or
additional
fees
you'd
be
able
to
take
that
funding.
Use.
Take
that
Bitcoin
right
and
use
that
Bitcoin
to
pay
somebody
so
just
like.
A
If
I
am
an
employee
at
a
start-up-
and
you
know
I'm
worth
150
thousand
dollars
a
year,
but
I
agree
to
take
75
thousand
dollars
a
year,
and
you
know
stock
options
that
seventy
five
thousand
is
coming
in
dollars
right
and
that's
becoming
because
other
people
are
speculating
on
the
value
of
the
stock
and
they're
they're.
Giving
dollars
and
then
those
dollars
are
being
given
to
me,
maybe
my
other.
A
Seventy
five
thousand
is
me
as
an
employee,
speculating
on
the
value
of
that
stock
as
well
options,
so
so
I
get
that
it's
new
and
it's
weird
and
it's
different,
but
at
the
same
time
a
lot
of
the
compensations
gonna
be
in
in
Bitcoin,
which
you
know
is.
Obviously
market
value
can
be
converted
to
cash.
So
you
could
be
a
contributor
to
bisk
and
still
take
advantage
of
the
fact
that
bsq
exists
and
people
are
essentially
buying
equity
into
the
future
project
or
into
the
project
and
the
future
revenue
stream.
Yeah.
B
But
should
probably
so
what
you're
describing
is
something
that
could
work
but
isn't
actually
how
how
we're
doing
it
so
right
now.
So
I
should
explain
briefly
like
the
sort
of
moment
that
we're
in
with
the
with
the
rolling
out
of
all
of
this
right,
so
so
what
I've
described
with
bsq?
What
we're
talking
about
is
like
fully
designed
and
in
many
ways
largely
implemented
solution
right,
we're
still
so
coding
many
parts
of
the
bsq
infrastructure
as
we
speak,
but
bsq
isn't
live
right.
So
you
can't
you
can't
trade
with
SQL
on
bisque
right
now.
B
What
the
only
thing
you
can
do
with
the
SQ
today
is
earn
it.
So
if
you're
a
contributor
and
you
file
this
compensation
request
every
month
saying
I
did
XY
and
Z
and
I'd
like
so
many
bsq
for
it.
You
can
be
awarded
that
vsq
and
that's
tracked
and
so
on,
but
you
can't
sell
it.
Nobody
can
buy
it.
You
can't
spend
it
on
trading.
All
of
the
other
utilities
that
will
come
online
when
it
goes
live
are
not
yet
online.
So
it's
essentially,
if
you
like
to
think
about
this,
why
it's
an
equity!
A
Only
the
founders
have
shares
and
they're
they're
jealous
with
those
shares,
so
they're
not
willing
to
allow
just.
You
know,
I'm,
just
dumb
money
to
come
into
the
system
and
get
some
shares.
They
want
it
all
themselves
for
some
period
of
time
to
continue
to
build
the
value,
but
really
even
in
that
situation,
the
the
founders
themselves
are
able
to
do
deals
that
you
guys
aren't
involved
in
or
you
guys
aren't
aware
of.
A
So
if
I
was
a
contributor
to
bsq,
there's
nothing
stopping
me
from
selling
those
bsq
or
doing
a
contract
with
somebody
that
says
the
ownership
is
actually
transferred
to
somebody
else.
You
guys
wouldn't
even
be
privy
to
it,
and
it's
also
just
a
period
of
time
right
so
I
get
that
it's.
What
you
guys
are
doing
is
interesting
and
you're
trying
to
ramp
it
up
in
a
creative
way.
A
But
let's
fast-forward
to
you
know
to
the
point
where
everything
is
live
and
operational
bsq
will
have
to
be
liquid
because
it's
being
used
as
a
payment
fee,
you're
gonna
have
to
be
able
to
acquire
it
on
a
decentralized
exchange.
You
guys
will
enable
it
in
in
bisque
so
that
people
can
buy
and
sell
it.
A
So
eventually,
you
know
we
are
gonna,
get
to
a
place
where
it's
it's
a
liquid
token,
more
liquid,
really
than
it
than
a
stock
and
I
keep
going
back
to
that
stock
analogy
because
it
seems
like
that's
the
the
cleanest
way
to
think
about
it.
I,
don't
it's
the
problem
with
analogies.
Is
that
or
you
know
that
they're
not
always
a
hundred
percent,
so
maybe
there's
some
things
that
are
not
like
a
stock,
but
so
far
I
haven't
seen
anything
right.
B
A
A
A
But
if
you
do
you
pay
a
premium
for
that,
so
just
for
simple
purposes,
let
me
simplify
and
say
you
can
only
pay
with
bsq
great
caveat
I'm,
just
gonna
keep
saying
that
and
we'll
talk
in
those
terms,
but
but
but
it's
not
exactly
true,
so
you
have
this
service,
you
have
this
utility
or
you
have
this.
You
have
this
product
and
you
can
only
pay
for
the
services
of
this
product,
which
is
the
decentralized
exchange
using
vsq.
What
what
stops
somebody
since
this
is
an
open
source
project
from
just
going?
A
Oh,
that's
a
great
piece
of
software.
These
guys
have
put
in
years
and
years
of
development.
It's
really
dialed!
Then
it
works
great.
But
it
has
this
one
flaw:
you
have
to
use
this
stupid,
bsq
token
in
order
to
pay
fees
or
you
have
to
pay
a
premium.
Let's
fork
it
right.
We've
got
three
guys
that
are
pretty
smart
developers.
A
Well,
why
not
right
like
if,
if
I
was
thinking
about
investing
the
next
six
years
of
my
life
into
this
open-source
project
and
I
I,
really,
you
know,
I
have
I,
have
kids
and
I'm
hoping
to
pay
for
college
someday
I,
don't
need
the
money
now,
but
I
need
it
in
five
to
ten
years.
That
would
be
a
concern
that
I
would
have
for
all
this
works.
Gonna
go
into
it
and
I'm
never
gonna
get
paid
because
somebody's
gonna
fork
the
project.
You
know
it's
open
source,
there's
nothing
stopping
somebody
from
doing
that.
Yeah.
B
B
If
we
end
up
being
a
bunch
of
deadbeat
rent
seekers
right
and
we're
just
charging
arbitrary
fees
in
our
inconvenience,
you
know
app
corners
or
whatever,
then
yeah,
there's
every
reason
to
expect
and
somebody's
gonna
come
along
and
and
do
exactly
what
you
described
and
they
should
try
it's
exactly.
What
we
want
out
of
these
dynamics
in
these
systems
is
to
like
prevent
this
sort
of
you
know.
B
If
you
will
to
a
few
people
right
and
the
risk
will
just
kind
of
plot
along
or
we'll
find
out
that
actually
the
market
rewards
this
this
system,
happily
paying
you
know
what,
whatever
that
amounts
is.
It
creates
enough
margin
to
have
you
know
dozens
of
people
contributing
it's
a
it's
the
sort
of
thing
that
I
just
think
nobody
can
predict.
The
question
is:
is
it
plausible
right?
Is
it
plausible
that
the
mere
existence
of
a
system
that
creates
any
profit
whatsoever
right
that
gets
redistributed
to
contributors?
B
If
the
presence
of
that
system
somehow
automatically
means
that
it
will
be
forked
right?
Well,
then,
all
hope
is
lost,
I,
don't
I,
don't
think!
That's
how
it
works
out.
I
think
how
it
works
out.
Is
that
the
the
presence
of
that
system
it
takes
a
lot
to
get
there
right,
like
it
takes
years
and
years
of
work
and
for
that
system
to
be
actually
decentralized,
not
just
the
technology
level,
but
at
the
human
level
right
like
there's
enough
people
doing
all
the
things,
so
there
are
just
one
or
two
heads
to
cut
off.
B
That
is
an
extremely
costly
thing
to
sort
of
establish
right,
so
anybody
who
comes
along
and
says
we'll
just
do
it
for
a
little
cheaper
right.
You
know
what
will
slash
the
prices
in
half
come
use
a
you
know:
bisque
bisque
ash
or
whatever
they
want
to
call
it
right.
You
know
it's
gonna,
be
a
shell
of
you
know
it's
going
to
be
just
a
mere
a
mere
shadow
of
what
the
original
canonical
system
is,
because
it's
not
going
to
have
those
decentralization
characteristics
and
properties
fully
realized
right.
B
A
Actually,
the
conclusion
that
I
came
to
as
I
was
thinking
about
this
I
mean
when
I
first
reached
out
to
you.
I
was
pretty
pessimistic
about
utility
tokens,
but
in
prepping
for
this
interview
you
know
like
oh,
it's
not
the
first
time
that
I
was
just
trying
to
trying
to
get
really
prepared
to
explain
why
something
was
dumb
and
then
realized.
Damn
it
it's
not
dumb
and,
as
we
were
talking
about
earlier,
that,
like
the
constant,
the
constant
just
disorientation
in
this
space
and
constant,
you
know
punch
in
the
nose
that
makes
you
go.
A
Oh
wait
a
minute,
there's
something
here
that
I
hadn't
thought
of
there's
definitely
kind
of
the
experience
I've
had
as
in
thinking
this
through
and
I.
Just
you
know,
so
everybody
knows
I
couldn't
be
less
pessimistic
and
disgusted
with
altcoins
there's
no
value
there.
But
you
know
there
is
value
in
employee
stock.
There
is
value
in
company
stock
and
if
we
can
find
a
way
to
recreate
that
in
a
way
that's
more
fair
and
open
and
honest
and
liquid
I,
you
know
there's.
A
I
think
that
that's
important
stuff-
and
you
know
we
might
not
have
a
dialed
in
right
right
now,
but
it's
still
something
that
it's
a
like.
You
said
it's
a
plausible
and
legitimate
thing
to
explore
what
I
what
I
concluded
is
I
was
trying
to
think
about
this
and
Daniel
Craig
woods
had
written.
You
know
basically
that
right,
I
mean
I,
read
it
I,
don't
know
six
months
ago
or
something
oh
yeah.
A
This
stuff
is
garbage
because
you
can't
fork
it
what
I
realized
after
looking
at
what
you
guys
are
doing
and
really
thinking
more
deeply
about.
It
is
two
things
one.
Open-Source
software
projects
are
a
lot
more
like
consulting
service
than
they
are
like
a
product
right.
You
don't
like
crank
out
a
widget,
and
then
you
just
have
a
widget,
and
anybody
can
instantly
for
free
copy
that
widget
and
use
it
it's
it's
really.
This
stuff
requires
a
lot
of
constant
care
and
feeding
and
updating.
A
So
it's
more
like
the
guy
that
comes
and
cuts
your
lawn
all
the
time
than
it
is
like
an
automatic
lawn
mower
that
just
works,
and
you
never
have
to
think
about
it.
You've
got
to
have
constant
contribution
and
if
you
guys
can
set
up
a
system
where
you
have
a
constant
contribution
and
people
are
compensated
for
that,
it's
going
to
be
more
attractive
to
the
consumer
than
otherwise,
and
you
know
the
consumer
I
think
people
underestimate
how
generous
most
consumers
are.
A
If
somebody
has
like
put
a
lot
of
blood,
sweat
and
tears
into
something
part
of
what
that
brand
represents.
Is
that
affinity
that
consumers
have
for
that
past
work
right
and
you
can
certainly
charge
a
premium
for
a
brand,
because
people
appreciate
the
brand.
They
appreciate
that
that
you
built
it
right.
A
No,
but
nobody
really
wants
to
use
the
knockoff,
but
they
will
you
know
if
you
guys
try
to
gouge
people,
they
will
absolutely
use
a
knockoff
and
that'll
be
the
end
of
it,
but
but
there's
a
certain
amount
of
appreciation
that
that
you
guys
will
be
able
to
take
advantage
of
as
long
as
you
don't
go
too
far
and
like
so
so
it's
constantly
it
needs
constant
care
and
maintenance.
If
you
guys
can
contribute,
can
compensate
people
for
that
you're
gonna.
A
Do
it
better,
there's
a
certain
amount
of
brand
affiliation
that
you
have
at
your
advantage
and
there
was
a.
There
was
a
third
reason
that
I
thought
this
might
actually
work,
and
now
it's
escaping
me,
but
but
they're.
You
know
there
are
reasons
to
believe
that
this
could
this
could
could
work.
There's
plenty
of
open
source
software
projects
that
that
yeah,
you
can
go
fork,
but
if
it
works
and
it's
it's
functional.
Oh
sorry.
A
The
third
reason
is
that
if
somebody
Forks
it
in
order
to
do
that,
constant
care
and
maintenance,
they're
gonna,
have
to
come
up
to
speed
on
the
codebase,
and
that
requires
an
incredible
amount
of
time
and
investment.
And
how
are
they
going
to
get
compensated
for
that
time
and
investment?
In
fact,
it's
harder
to
learn
somebody's
code
than
it
is
to
write
it
yourself,
so
they're
actually
at
a
disadvantage.
A
You
would
think
that
they'd
be
at
an
advantage
because
they
had
they
don't
have
to
do
all
the
work
that's
been
done,
but
in
many
cases
they're
actually
at
a
disadvantage
when
they're
trying
to
maintain
it
and
update
it,
because
they
would
have
to
do
a
hundred
and
thirty
percent
of
the
work
involved
in
just
writing
it
from
scratch.
It's
not
always
the
case,
but
it's,
it's
surprisingly
often
the
case
so
anyway.
A
B
Yeah
I
think
I'm
kind
of
two
minds
here
about,
like
you
know,
obviously
thinking
positively
this
can
work.
I
wouldn't
be
wasting
my
time
if
I
didn't
think
that,
but
but
I'm
sort
of
of
two
minds
about
the
the
potential
general
applicability
of
this
kind
of
model
and
like
the
argument
that
I
was
just
making
a
moment
ago,
was
focusing
more
on
the
decentralization
aspects.
Right
like
this
is
a
project
that
actually
needs
to
be
decentralized.
B
Do
this
very
nature
right
for,
like
the
same
reasons
that
Bitcoin
needs
to
be
decentralized?
This
needs
to
be
decentralized
and
most
projects.
Aren't
that
way
right,
like
just
bottom
line
like
most
things,
don't
absolutely
have
to
be
decentralized,
so
so
they're
they're
centralizing
forces
are
always
going
to
take
over
there,
and
you
know,
there's
always
going
to
be
faster,
better
products
to
market
that
have
centralized
and
so
on,
so
so
on
one
hand,
I
think
like
hey.
Well,
maybe
this
model
is
only
really
going
to
be
applicable
in
these.
A
Just
to
read
that
back
to
people
the
reason
the
decentralization
is
so
important
here
is
that
it
means
you're
trying
to
create
an
exchange.
That
is
censorship,
resistant
right.
If
China
decides
that
they're
gonna
ban,
Bitcoin
or
Zimbabwe
or
some
corrupt
government
wants
to
start
their
people
to
death
by
printing
a
ton
of
money
like
in
Venezuela.
You
guys
want
to
be
an
application
that
can
still
exist
and
can
still
function
and
can't
be
shut
down,
and
that
requires
that
you
know
somebody
can't
just
go
slap
chris
around
and
all
of
a
sudden.
A
A
Well,
hopefully,
from
learning
math,
okay,
but
with
that's,
that's
a
legitimate
concern
with
with
bisque
and
and
it
actually
turns
into
an
advantage,
as
far
as
being
able
to
not
just
fork
the
project
and
run
with
it,
because
bootstrapping
that
requires
ears
and
a
lot
of
relationships
and
sort
of
a
slow
evolution
to
being
able
to
to
have
a
fully
distributed
team,
basically
and
a
fully
distributed
sort
of
investor
class
and
and
user
base
and
all
of
those
sort
of
things.
It's
not
something
where
you
could
just
hit
copy
and
you
bring
that
and.
B
So
I
think
that's
essentially
like
a
gigantic
barrier
to
entry,
for
the
exact
same
reasons
that
bitcoins
actual
decentralization
characteristics
are
essentially
an
insurmountable
barrier
to
entry
for
any
other
old
coin
right
right
now,
so
that's
one
argument,
that's
sort
of
one
mine
that
I
have
is
like.
Well,
maybe
this
is
a
model
that
can
work,
but
it's
sort
of
not
generally
applicable.
B
Maybe
it's
only
applicable
in
these
kind
of
decentralization
cases,
but
then
I
have
this
other
mindset,
which
is
more
like
what
you
were
talking
about
a
moment
ago
which
as
well
and
maybe
it's
maybe
decentralization,
doesn't
matter.
It's
not
specific
to
decentralization
projects,
because
what
is
just
as
important
or
very
very,
very
important
is
the
network
of
contributors
and
developers
and
coders
right,
and
it's
not
that
that
that
quote-unquote
needs
to
be
decentralized.
B
But
if
you're
going
to
have
a
truly
great
open-source
project,
something
that's
you
know
global
and
you
know
kind
of
the
best
thing.
That's
out
there.
You
want
the
absolute
best
minds
in
the
space
again,
just
like
Bitcoin
has
right,
and
so
so
the
very
best
people
in
the
world
don't
care
a
lick
about
anything
other
than
Bitcoin,
because
bitcoins
were
all
the
actions,
and
if
this
grows
up
to
be,
you
know
to
have
those
kind
of
characteristics.
A
Hopeful,
but
it's
even
more
than
that,
I'm
hopeful
I
mean
I,
don't
like
if
we
just
used
it
as
or
if
we
just
look
at
company
stock.
If
if
this
can
be
done,
if
it
could
be
done,
it's
got
a
lot
of
advantages
over
stock
and
equity
shares,
and
maybe
it's
got
some
disadvantages,
but
it
seems
like
if
it
can
be
done
if
it
can,
if
it
can
get
up
and
run
in
and
those
advantages
are
gonna
have
way
the
disadvantages
and
the
idea
of
company
ownership
I
mean
that's.
A
What
got
me
really
excited
about
the
Dow,
even
though
I
was
not
super
into
Bitcoin
at
the
time,
I
was
just
kind
of
watching
from
a
distance
from
a
distance,
the
idea
of
being
able
to
create
a
structure
that
allows
you
to
do.
You
know
basically
be
a
venture
capital
firm,
raise
money
and
invest
into
projects
where
everybody
is
able
to
be
anonymous
and
everything
is
super.
Liquid
right,
I
mean
VC.
Firms
have
to
wait
years
before
they're
able
to
get
out
of
an
investment.
A
Employees
have
to
wait
years
before
their
stock
options
mature,
and
a
lot
of
that
is
just
a
lot
of
its
regulation
right
at
the
end
of
the
day.
It's
it's.
You
know
arbitrary
decisions
that
some
politician
is
made
about
what
you
can
or
can't
do
with
stuff.
They
don't
that
belongs
to
you,
because
you
know
they're
gonna
treat
you
like
a
child
and
prevent
you
from
doing
what's
best
for
you,
because
they
think
that
they
know
better
or
more
likely.
A
You
know
their
benefits
their
special
interests
in
some
way,
so
being
able
to
avoid
all
of
that.
Nonsense
and
I
just
have
an
object
and
I'm
able
to
use
that
object.
The
way
that
I
want
that.
That's
the
magic
of
Bitcoin
right
with
Bitcoin,
that
magic
is
money
which
is
by
far
the
most
important
thing
as
far
as
it,
ownership
and
freedom
goes,
but
not
too
far
beyond
that
are
other
assets
like
a
share
in
a
company
or
something
like
that
and
there's
been
so
much
scamming
going
on
right
there.
A
So
there's
so
many
people
that
are
like.
Oh,
you
know
your
car
key
is
going
to
be
a
transaction
on
the
blockchain
that
has
some
similar
attributes
to
what
what
the
dowlas
and
things
like
that,
but
it
just
it
really
kind
of
turns
everybody
off
to
it.
It
certainly
it
turns
me
off
to
the
concept,
but
when
you
go
back
kind
of
first
principles
and
go
what
what
problem
are
we
solving
here?
It's
actually
a
really
broad
problem
of
coordinating
human
activity.
A
Right
and
money
is
a
big
part
of
that,
but
but
ownership
in
a
future
revenue
stream
right
to
make
it.
Generic
is
also
a
really
really
big
part
of
that.
So
yeah
I'm
I'm
hopeful
that
that
it's
gonna
matter
a
lot
more
than
just
just
even
open
source
projects,
but
but
I'm
also,
still,
you
know
a
little
skeptical
that
all
the
pieces
are
gonna
come
together.
So
one
of
the
reasons
that
I'm
a
little
skeptical,
for
example
with
bisque,
is
wow.
That's
that's
not
fair.
A
To
say,
one
of
the
things
that
I
know
other
people
are
going
to
be
worried
about
is
that
it's
not
limited
in
supply
right,
so
you
guys
right
now.
Bisque,
isn't
a
spreadsheet
somewhere
effectively
and
you
guys
are
issuing
new
bisque
to
people.
You
know
there's
a
cap,
but
but
it
doesn't
really
matter
because,
because,
even
though
you
guys
are
limiting
it
to
2.5
million
or
whatever
you
have
the
ability
to
basically
arbitrarily
reallocate
the
percentages.
A
So
even
though
that
the
total
number
might
not
go
up,
it's
you,
you
essentially
have
the
ability
to
print
money
or
print
bisque
right
now,
and
the
only
reason
there's
not
more
of
it
is
that
you
guys
have
decided,
there's
not
more
of
it
or
the
only
reason
that
you
don't
have
99.9
percent.
Maybe
the
founders
have
you
know
70
percent
right
now,
but
you
could
change
it
to
99.9.
B
Yeah
I
mean
there's,
there's
a
nothing
to
appeal
to
their
other
than
read.
Our
founding
documents
watch
exactly
how
we
function
notice,
how
we
do
precisely
what
we
say
over
and
over
and
over
again,
and
that's
that's
the
basis
for
reputation
and
Trust.
You
have
to
bootstrap
from
somewhere,
and
all
we
have
is
our
track
record.
All
we
have
is
our
reputation
right
when
you
know
when
this
all
goes
live
and
people
actually
started
trading,
and
you
know
things
are
all
happening
on
chain
and
so
on.
B
A
I
think
there's
two
two
objections.
That
came
to
my
mind
anyway.
The
first
is,
you
guys
are
completely
in
control
of
the
centralized
spreadsheet
and
I
as
I
was
reading
through
your
documents.
It's
clear
that
that's
a
temporary
thing
right
that
the
intention
is
to
get
to
a
point
where,
where
you
guys
don't
have
that
power
but
you're,
just
not
that
far
along
yet
and
really
the
industry
and
sort
of
Bitcoin
in
general
and
smart
contracts
in
general
aren't
that
far
along.
A
So
I
can't
really
blame
you
for
not
taking
advantage
of
technology
that
doesn't
exist.
Yet
if
you
say
that
you're
headed
that
direction,
you
know
it's,
it
seems
reasonable,
based
on
the
track
record
to
believe
that's
what
you
guys
are
doing,
but
the
second
part
is
also
interesting,
and
that
is
the
idea
that,
even
when
it's
decentralized
and
everybody
only
votes
on
compensating
people.
A
B
B
A
B
Let's
imagine
we
go
on
chain
tomorrow
right
we
exit
what
we
call
phase
zero
of
the
BIST
down.
We
go
live
on
our
main
net
with
vsq
right
and
it's
all
happening
on
chain
and
people
can
trade
Bitcoin
for
vsq,
and
you
know
it's
like
all
happening
right
still
at
that
moment.
So
if
that
happened
tomorrow,
though,
there
would
still
be
this.
This
lion's
share
of
of
bsq
being
with
people
who
have
been
around
the
project
for
ages
and
you
care
very
much
for
the
integrity
of
the
project.
B
Right,
there's
just
no
way
that
those
people
would
agree
to
greenlight
something
like
a
million
bsq
when
remember.
The
current
supply
is
a
little
north
of
two
and
a
half
million,
so
it
doesn't
matter
what
you
do,
there's
probably
nothing
in
the
world
that
could
merit
a
million
bsq.
We
would
just
simply
vote
that
down
right.
So
that's
if
it
happened
tomorrow,
but
let's
fast-forward
right,
you
know
months.
Even
years
have
gone
by
and
now
as
intended.
B
You
know
the
distribution
of
bsq
has
gotten
much
broader
and
so
on.
Well,
if
it's
actually
gotten
that
much
broader,
then
we'd
have
to
have
a
truly
mad.
You
sort
of
you
know
mob
group
thing
delusional
sort
of
situation
where
it
indeed,
thousands
and
thousands
of
people
get
together
to
vote
on
something
that
makes
no
sense,
and
that
can
happen
all
right.
B
So
I
can't
say
that
can't
happen,
but
the
only
defense
that
we
have
against
that
that
dark
future
is
carefully
controlling
what
we
can
control
now
right
and
that's
why
the
only
thing
you
can
do
is
earn
it
now.
That's
why
we
don't
let
any
whales
come
into
the
space.
We
don't
let
any
early
speculators
just
slurp
up
bsq,
because
they
may
do
very
dumb
things
with
it
right
in
the
service
of
their
own
short-term.
You
know
high
time,
preference
thinking
right.
We
do
not
want
that.
B
So
we
can
control
that
stuff
now
and
keep
it
in
the
hands
of.
Essentially,
you
know
meritocratic
lee.
You
know
like
people
who
deserve
to
have
that
bsq
and
we'll
probably
make
wise
decisions
with
it,
and
then
the
best
we
can
do
is
hope
that
that
plays
out
well
I,
don't
know
what
I
mean
what
anybody
else
could
do
right.
A
Yeah
I,
as
I,
was
thinking
about
that
I
realized
again
just
back
to
the
stock
analogy.
It's
the
same
situation
that
every
founder
is
in
right
at
a
certain
point:
venture
capitalists
and
VCS
and
all
kinds
of
you
know
people
that
they've
never
met
before
they're
gonna
have
a
major
majority
share
interest
in
the
company.
You
know,
there's
exceptions
with
Facebook,
but
in
general
you
end
up
getting
to
look
at
it
to
where
you
don't
have
control
of
your
company
I.
A
A
A
All
of
the
dollars
they
wouldn't
print
more
dollars
so
yeah.
The
last
thing
I
wanted
to
ask
you
and
I've
only
got
like
about
10
minutes
left
before
we
should
wrap
it
up.
I'm
try
and
try
to
keep
the
show
you
know
close
to
an
hour,
but
man
I
could
talk
to
you
about
this
all
day.
So
I
wanted
to
ask
is,
as
a
lot
of
these
things
are
effectively
a
way
to
replicate
the
experience
of
stock.
A
How
are
you
guys
going
to
avoid
getting
nailed
by
regulation
and
I
will
say
that
I've
been
surprised
at
how
sort
of
positive
and
open
to
the
possibility?
It
seems
like
the
regulator's
have
been
particularly
with
utility
tokens
like
this,
but
but
at
the
same
time
those
guys
you
know
they're
they're
pretty
capricious
and
who
knows
what
they're
gonna
do
tomorrow?
Are
you
guys
at
all
concerned
that
this
could
end
up
being
treated
like
a
security
and,
yes
could
be?
You
know,
end
up
being
treated
as
promoters
of
effectively
an
unregistered
security,
yeah.
B
B
You
know
to
give
us
opinions
about
what
we
were
doing
with
the
SQ,
and
you
know
we
got
the
same
green
light,
looks
good
to
me
from
them
that
I'm
sure
every
other
coin
I
see
Oh
God
and
in
the
end,
in
the
end,
we've
we've
put
all
that
stuff
in
a
drawer
and
not
acted
on
it
at
all.
So
so
you
know
in
a
very
intentional
way.
B
In
many
cases
you
know
securities
and
the
people
who
are
putting
them
together
and
so
on
now,
whether
that's
a
government
regulation
or
market
bates
regulation
is,
of
course
something
you
and
I
would
enjoy
talking
about.
I
know
what
both
of
our
answers
would
be,
but
people
want
and
need
regulation.
That's
that's
the
bottom
line
right.
A
B
Happens
that
we
live
in
a
world
right
now,
where
there's
a
government
monopoly
on
regulation
in
almost
all
domains,
and
so
people,
just
you,
know,
sort
of
swallow
that
unthinkingly
here's
the
thing
this
needs
to
be
regulated
to
disk
and
trading
and
bsq,
and
all
of
that
stuff.
It
just
is
regulated
by
design,
and
we
actually
believe
that
and
we
believe
that
nobody
would
use
it.
Nobody
would
buy
bsq.
Nobody
would
download
and
run
via
bisque
if
they
didn't
believe
in
that
regulation
they
know
nobody's
watching.
B
They
know,
there's
no
overseer
right
other
than
the
code,
the
arbitrators,
the
you
know,
the
way
the
network
works.
The
design
is
that
it
is
that
it
regulates
itself
and
if
you
don't
believe
that
don't
use
it
nobody's
forcing
you
to
write
so
by
virtue
of
people
using
this
day
in
and
day
out,
choosing
to
use
BS
cube
discs,
you
will
succeed
or
fail,
based
only
on
you
know
whether
people
believe
it's
a
good
idea.
B
So
the
only
thing
that
has
any
integrity
at
the
end
of
the
day
for
us
to
do
is
absolutely
nothing
with
regard
to
the
existing
legal
system
and
that's
a
bit
of
a
nail-biter
right
like
ultimately,
that
leaves
individual
people
risk
right,
there's
sort
of
no
shield,
you
know
for
the
founders
and
so
on.
Aha,
we
can't
wrap
ourselves
in
the
blanket
of
a
foundation,
but
in
the
end,
if
we
did,
that
would
probably
be
the
Achilles
heel
right.
B
No
because
well,
we
just
opened
up
the
attack
surface,
that
they
know
how
to
attack
that
they
can
and
will
attack
right.
But
when
all
there
is
is
individual
people
and
code,
you
have
to
find
new
ways
to
attack.
If
you're
going
to
do
that
legally,
you
have
to
do
what
hasn't
been
done.
It's
a
BitTorrent
you
have
to.
You
have
to
find
a
way
to
chop
the
head
off
of
a
headless
Network
right.
You
know,
and
that-
and
that's
it's
just
so
very
important-
that
we
keep
taking
one
step
after
another.
B
We
keep
having
one
more
contributor
show
up
and
take
on
one
more
role
and
just
slowly
and
surely
decentralized
every
aspect
of
this
operation
so
that
there
are
no
founders
right.
That's
that's
the
main
exit
criteria
of
the
phasor
and
right
now
is
the
elimination
of
the
founder
wall
right
in
a
very
systematic
way.
Yep.
A
For
me,
right
and,
and
so
I
would
be
really
aggressive
about
it.
Right
monaro
is
to
me
a
fraud
because
it
it
pushes
a
narrative
that
if
you
use
Manero
and
you're
gonna
be
more
secure
and
more
private
than
if
you
use
Bitcoin
now
for
99.9%
of
the
people.
That's
simply
not
true
I'm,
not
even
sure
that
I
buy
the
concept
that
it's
true
for
the
on
chain.
Part,
although
that's
that's
debatable,
but
that's
not
where
most
of
the
activity
that
matters
for
privacy
happens
anyway,
and
so
there's
a
lot
of
lies
right.
A
Just
flat-out
lies
that
are
created
in
the
mind
of
the
hearer,
whether
that's
done
by
saying,
don't
buy
it,
but
incidentally,
it's
the
best
thing
in
the
world
or
don't
buy
it,
but
it
should
be
silver
to
bitcoins
gold,
whatever
right
that
that
is,
that's
fraud,
it's
deceptive!
It's
designed
to
screw
people
out
of
their
money
right.
A
What
you
guys
are
doing-
and
you
know
I
I-
applaud
you
for
for
taking
the
risk
that
you
guys
are
taking,
because
without
somebody
you
know
without
skype
and
being
willing
to
take
a
little
bit
of
risk
and
being
being
categorized
as
a
telephone
company.
You
know
and
potentially
being
punished
for
that.
We
wouldn't
have
a
lot
of
the
things
that
we
have
right
now
right
without
her
pushing
the
limits
a
little
bit
with
taxis,
we
we
would
still,
you
know,
be
paying
$100
to
be
killed
in
a
taxi.
A
So
it's
really
important
that
we
distinguish
between
people
that
are
pushing
the
limits
and
are
actually
creating
a
value
and
people
that
are
being
intentionally
deceptive
and
that
I
think
that's
a
really
good
start
criteria
and
I
can
say
that
with
bisque
I,
don't
know
if
it's
gonna
work,
but
it's
legitimate
right.
There
is
legitimate
code
here,
there's
a
legitimate
project,
there's
a
lot
of
real
work.
A
It
solves
a
real
problem
and
as
of
this
moment,
I
don't
know
of
you
or
anybody
at
bisque,
at
least
for
the
you
know
a
few
months
that
I've
really
been
paying
attention
making
any
claims
that
are
that
are
obviously
right
and
I
can't
say
that
about
almost
anything
else
in
the
space.
So
that's
why?
I'm,
still,
you
know
relatively
positive
about
it
right,
I.
A
Think
a
lot
of
people
will
have
the
impression
that
I'm
very,
very
critical
and
very
negative,
but
I'm
not
I,
just
understand
the
technology
enough
to
know
that
from
day
one
litecoin
was
a
scam
from
day
one
charlie
was
trying
to
trick
people
into
buying
something
worthless
and
I
know
that
he's
popular
and
I'm
fine
taking
the
hit
on
that.
But
that's
the
difference
right,
like
as
a
technologist
I,
can
tell
that
there's
actually
a
real
problem.
A
You
guys
are
trying
to
solve
and
you're
going
about
funding
it
and
supporting
it
and
building
a
community
in
ways
that
are
at
least
plausible,
if
not
successful,
right
at
least
they're
plausible,
and
that
that's
very
unique.
So
that's
why
I
will
remain
a
fan,
even
if
it
fails,
unless
you
guys,
unless
you
guys
start,
you
know
changing
the
direction
without
how
you're
doing
that.
So
it's
been
great
man,
I,
really
I
hate
to
end
it.
I
could
definitely
talk
for
another
another.
A
B
What
I
was
just
gonna
say
is
I
mean
you
know
first
thanks
for
the
kind
words,
and
it
means
a
lot.
You
say
that
so
Thanks,
but
with
with
all
of
that
said
right
and
we
you
know,
if,
okay,
you
agree,
I
certainly
agree.
Maybe
other
people
can
agree.
We
can
check
the
box
that
there's
you
know
this
is
legit
right.
You
know
like
we're
doing
we're
at
least
attempting
to
solve.
You
know
this
problem
is
on
okay,
like
yeah
check
that
box.
Now
what
about
the
threat
model
right?
B
You
know,
of
course,
we've
done
our
homework.
Of
course,
we've
modelled
this
out.
Of
course,
we've
been
thinking
for
literally
years
about
this
problem
and
we
actually
have
you
know
working
functioning
software.
The
people
use
every
single
day.
It's
like.
We
know
it
works
to
a
degree,
but,
oh,
my
goodness,
right
there.
What
what?
What
could
be,
what
could
be
discovered
right?
B
What
what
you
know,
what
what
kind
of
attacks
could
come
along
that
would
threaten
this
there's
much
deeper
work
that
can
happen
there,
and
people
like
yourself
are
more
than
welcome
to
raise
those
issues
right
or
to
help
us
find
those
who
do
threat
models
for
this
cause.
What
evidence?
It's
all!
It's
all
quite
welcome.
B
A
Yeah
thanks
man
I
think
this
was
a
really
good
show.
I
really
feel
like
it
was
a
good
use
of
time.
I
hope,
I,
hope.
Other
people
feel
the
same
way.
Looking
forward
to
feedback
on
Twitter,
it's
probably
the
best
place
to
reach
me
at
weather.
Man,
I
am
and
Chris
you're
on
you're
on
Twitter
you're,
pretty
active.
What's
your
what's
your
Twitter
handle
yeah.
B
My
total
is
c-beams.
My
last
name
is
beams
like
laser
beams
Christine,
so
she
beams
and
and
bisque
is
on
Twitter
at
Fisk
underscore
network,
and
you
can
find
this
at
this
dot.
Network
online
got
a
youtube
channel.
You
can
find
you
know,
come
talk
to
us
and
slack
come
hang
out
if
you,
if
you're
somebody
who
you
know
you're
your
developer
or
someone
you
might
want
to
contribute
to
a
project
like
this
in
a
sort
of
different
way.
You
know
come
come
read
up
on
our
on
our
literature
that
we
have
out.
B
There
go,
go
search
for
bisque
phase,
zero,
read
that
doc
when
you
go
to
our
Twitter
handle
the
first
thing.
You'll
see
is
a
you
know.
The
pin
tweet
is
a
big
list
of
all
the
podcasts
and
all
the
talks
and
stuff
that
we've
done.
You
know
kind
of.
Do
your
homework
and
say:
hey.
Is
this
something
from
me
and
tell
us
what
you're
interested
in,
especially
if
you're
you
know,
somebody
who
works
with
JVM
technology
is
you're
a
Java
developer
and
wanted
to
like
really
really
sharp
work.
We'd
love
to
talk
to
you.