►
Description
Docket #0292 A hearing regarding access to low-cost veterinary care.
A
My
name
is
kenzie
bach,
I'm
the
district,
8
city
councilor,
and
also
the
chair
of
the
boston
city
council's
committee
on
city
services
and
innovation
technology.
I'm
joined
here
today
by
my
colleagues,
council,
liz
braden
of
district
9
and
the
sponsor
of
this
matter:
councillor
ed
flynn,
district,
2
and
council
president
and
counselor
aaron
murphy
at
large.
A
A
So,
if
you're
interested
in
testifying,
you
can
sign
up
in
the
corner
over
there
on
those
sheets
or
if
you
are
watching
this
virtually
and
you
want
to
testify-
please
email,
ccc.csit,
boston.gov
and
we'll
get
you
that
link
that's
ccc.csit,
boston.gov
and
that's
also
the
email
that
you
can
send
any
written
testimony
to.
So,
even
if
you're
watching
this.
After
the
fact,
we
welcome
your
testimony.
A
Today's
hearing
is
on
docket0292
order
for
a
hearing
regarding
access
to
low-cost
veterinary
care
and
we'll
be
hearing
in
a
moment
from
dr
alexis.
Tracinsky
of
boston,
animal
care
and
control,
and
dr
sara
mar
sanchez
from
our
bureau
of
infectious
diseases
for
the
boston,
public
health
commission
and
then
we'll
be
hearing
from
a
number
of
community
advocates
and
folks
involved
in
this
work
of
animal
rescue
and
some
of
our
clinical
professors
from
tufts.
A
B
B
We
are
also
joined
by
leaders
representing
our
reputable
veterinary
care
hospitals,
non-profit
organizations
and
teaching
institutions
in
boston
and
in
massachusetts
and
lisa
craig
kreiger
community
outreach
program
director
for
mspca
angel,
dr
edwards
citino.
I'm
not
doing
a
good
job
with
these
pronunciations
president,
ceo
of
animal
rescue
league
of
boston,
dr
leslie,
sharkey
of
the
department
of
clinical
sciences
at
the
cummings
school
of
veterinary
medicine
at
tufts
university
and
director
jennifer
grady,
the
department
of
clinical
sciences
at
the
cummings
school
of
veterinary
medicine
at
tufts
university.
B
While
it
may
not
automatically
many,
will
not
actually
automatically
make
the
connection.
I
view
this
issue
as
inter
interconnected
and
interrelated
with
the
hearing
we
had
this
morning
on
census
and
demographic
data
for
policy
making,
as
our
communities
continue
to
change,
we
have
seen
an
influx
in
luxury
development,
including
at
times
specialty
and
subscription-based.
Veterinary
services
and
part
of
the
holistic
community
planning
should
also
mean
meeting
the
needs
of
all
of
our
community
members.
B
Pets
have
increasingly
become
integral
to
our
lives
and
families,
including
improving
mental
and
occupational
health
and
any
type
of
demogra.
Demography
must
adequately
account
for
families
of
all
compositions
in
our
city
and
the
services
that
they
need
to
need
access
to.
You
know
we
think
about
growing
populations.
I
know
we
have
conversations
with
the
parks
department
about
the
need
for
more
dog
parks
and
recreational
play
areas
for
our
animals,
and
we
also
see
increasing
concerns
about
zootic
diseases,
etc.
B
So
I
hope
that
we
can
have
an
initial
conversation
in
identifying
any
access
gaps
and
areas
for
collaboration,
as
well
as
the
council
and
members
of
the
public
to
learn
about
what
programs
have
been
going
on
and
have
been
done
well
with
our
city
agencies
and
industry
partners,
and
I
really
look
forward
to
the
conversation
this
afternoon
and
thank
you
all
for
being
here.
Thank
you.
C
C
I
think
what
council
braden
is
calling
for
is
is
an
important
discussion
in
trying
to
help
residents
that
their
their
pet
plays
a
critical
role
in
their
life
and
our
pet.
We
have
a
little
a
little
dog.
We
got
from
the
angel
angel
memorial
of
south
huntington
avenue
in
jamaica,
plain
and
as
a
disabled
veteran.
C
C
My
dog's
name
is
marley
m-a-r-l-e-y
and
I
wanted
to
make
sure
the
dog
had
a
middle
name,
and
since
the
dog
was
from
jamaica
plain
in
memory
of
james
michael
curley,
the
dog's
middle
name
is
curly,
so
marley
curly,
so
molly
curly
flynn,
it's
kind
of
a
good
name.
So
I
just
want
to
say
thank
you
to
councillor
braden.
D
I
knew
this
would
be
the
best
hearing,
so
I
made
sure
I
was
here:
I've
met
marley
walking
up
the
street
of
broadway
before
and
I
also
have
a
dog
and
a
family
always
had
a
dog
and
our
my
kids
are
young
adults
now,
but
we've
always
rescued
a
dog.
We
now
have
murphy
who's,
been
with
us
for
over
three
years
and
is
a
family
member
and
have
cats
and
fish
and
pets
in
the
house
and
know
how
important
that
is.
But
before
I
go
on
about
that,
I
do
just
want
to
say
congratulations.
D
We're
going
through
for
a
lot
of
people,
the
isolation,
the
pet
was
what
kept
them
alive
and
kept
them
going
for
many
for
many
people
across
the
city,
and
we
just
need
to
support
those
families.
I
know
the
studies
they
predicted
that
many
people
would
bring
in
a
pet,
but
then
not
keep
it
once
we
went
back
to
work
and
they
found
out
that
we
did
right.
You
would
know
more,
but
that
families
did
keep
their
pets
and
they
they
do
need
them
for
that
support
and
that
companionship
just
as
much
as
they
need
us.
D
Are
we
going
to
keep
the
electricity
on
it's
the
same
with
pets,
and
you
know
that
for
the
animals
they
need
the
health
care
as
much
as
humans
do
so
to
make
sure
that
we're
not
keeping
pet
owners
away
from
access
to
quality
pet
care
is
so
important
across
the
city.
So
thank
you,
council
of
braden,
for
bringing
this
important
issue
up
and
I'm
here
to
advocate
and
make
sure
that
that
support
is
there
for
pet
owners.
D
Oh
and
one
last
thing
I
have
noticed
at
the
last
couple
years,
which
is
wonderful
at
food
banks.
You
see
that
there's
always
tables
now
for
dog
and
cat
food
and
cat
litter
and
pet
food,
which
is
important
also
like
feminine
products,
but
we're
definitely
doing
a
good
job
there.
I
know
we
can
do
better,
so
any
donations-
I
bet
you
would
love
to
have
because
people
definitely
need
pet.
Food
can
also
be
costly.
So
thank
you
and
I
look
forward
to
the
work
ahead.
A
E
These
clinics
are
currently
held
at
the
bcy
of
community
centers
across
the
city
to
increase
accessibility
and
convenience
for
the
city
of
boston,
pet
owners,
while
the
clinics
are
not
income
restricted,
many
of
the
pet
owners
at
past
clinics
self-identify
as
low-income
senior
citizens
or
folks
that
are
otherwise
experiencing
barriers
to
accessing
routine
veterinary
care.
Additionally,
we
are
aware
that
area
veterinary
clinics,
both
general
practice
and
emergency
vet
clinics,
have
reported
an
increased
caseload.
E
Our
own
transfer
partners,
who
are
typically
well
connected,
have
communicated
difficulty
accessing
timely
appointments
and
spay
neuter
in
response
to
consistent
constituent
requests
for
low-cost
services
and
understanding
the
challenges
facing
the
veterinary
profession.
We
expanded
our
services
in
2021
from
babies,
vaccines
only
to
include
exams,
distemper
vaccines
for
cats
and
dogs,
plea,
tick,
preventive
and
microchip
implants.
E
E
E
The
banfield
foundation
has
also
awarded
us
funding
for
this
year's
clinics
and
funding
to
cover
seven
additional
clinics
in
2023.
this
month.
We
are
also
collaborating
with
the
street
dog
coalition
to
hold
a
clinic
in
roxbury
for
that
folks,
who
are
unhoused
or
facing
housing
insecurity,
in
addition
to
the
work
that
we
do
in
in
the
community.
So
far,
animal
care
control
has
provided
crisis,
boarding
to
approximately
84
residents,
provided
veterinary
care
to
650
domestic
pets,
cats,
dogs,
hamsters
gerbils
and
spay
neuter
services
at
the
animal
care
facility
and
referrals
when
appropriate.
E
Animal
control
also
operates
a
small
pet
pantry
and
last
month
alone,
we
sent
out
over
120
bags
of
cat
food,
eight
bags
of
dog
food
and
35
boxes
of
cat
treats.
We
are
proud
of
the
work
that
we've
accomplished
in
collaboration
with
our
community
partners.
We
also
recognize
that
additional
support
beyond
preventive
care
is
needed.
E
Our
animal
care
facility
continues
to
deliver
high
quality
veterinary
care,
but
our
ability
to
support
additional
services
is
limited
to
functional
space.
We
are
grateful
to
share
I'm
grateful
and
excited
to
share
and
show
appreciation
to
mayor
wu
and
administration
for
including
in
the
capital
budget,
a
new
shelter
design.
E
It
is
clear
from
speaking
with
city
members
of
the
city
council
that
an
administration
there's
a
high
level
of
support
for
animal
care
and
control.
We
hope
that,
with
the
new
shelter
we'll
be
more
centrally
located
more
accessible
and
will,
and
this
new
shelter
will
allow
for
expansion
of
existing
programming
and
create
creation
of
new
programming.
F
Sonotic
diseases
are
very
common
and
scientists
in
the
centers
for
disease
control
and
prevention
estimate
that
more
than
six
out
of
every
10
known
infectious
diseases
in
people
can
be
spread
from
animals
and
three
out
of
every
four
new
or
emerging
diseases.
Infectious
diseases
in
people
come
from
animals,
so
the
complex
links
between
human,
animal
and
environmental
health
require
coordinated,
multidisciplinary
and
multi-prong
collaboration
to
address
the
threats
from
zoonotic
diseases.
F
Salmon
salmonellosis
another
zoonotic
disease
caused
by
salmonella
bacteria
causes
nearly
1.35
million
infections,
26,
500,
hospitalizations
and
420
deaths
in
the
united
states.
Every
year.
People
infected
with
salmonella
can
develop
diarrhea
fever
and
abdominal
cramps
and
pets
can
also
get
sick
from
salmonella
and
may
be
carriers
of
the
bacteria
and
pass
it
on
to
their
human
companions
without
appearing
to
be
ill.
F
So,
in
summary,
I
hope
this
testimony
highlights
the
importance
of
low-cost
veterinary
care
as
part
of
a
one
health
approach
that
supports
human
animal
and
environmental
health
to
work
together
to
achieve
the
best
health
outcomes.
For
all.
Thank
you
again
to
the
committee
for
allowing
me
the
opportunity
to
testify
today
and
I'm
happy
to
answer
any
questions.
Thank
you
great.
B
E
B
B
E
Yeah,
so
usually
the
conflicts
with
domestic
pets
and
wild
animals
that
are
immediately
brought
to
our
attention
is
if
the
animal
has
been
bitten
or
bit
a
wild
animal
we
just
incur.
We
encourage
constituents
to
exercise
strategies
such
as
make
sure
making
sure
trash
is
maintained,
properly,
encouraging
pets
to
be
leased
when
they're
outside
in
areas
where
they
know,
for
instance,
coyotes,
exist
in
just
reinforcing
some
conflict
aversions.
B
So
then,
back
to
your,
you
mentioned
low-cost
rabies
and
vaccine
clinics.
You
do
those
in
the
spring
and
the
fall.
Yes,
how
many
and
and
do
you
do
them
across
the
city
like
I'm,
I'm
from
austin
right
and
so
that
my
my
constituents
are
asking
about
this
issue
and
how
are
the?
How
would
the
vaccine
clinic
spread
across
the
city.
E
E
E
Yeah,
so
we
do
some
limited
surgeries
at
our
animal
care
facility.
We
also
have
information
from
our
risk.
Our
animal
welfare
organization
partners,
the
animal
rescue
mspca.
They
have
a
pretty
robust
speed,
mirror
program.
The
mass
ml
fund,
also
through
the
state,
provides
vouchers
to
residents
who
are
unable
to
pay
for
spay
neuter
services,
and
we
have
a
running
list
and
we
distribute
our
vouchers
into
that
program
to
our
constituents.
C
Thank
you,
madam
chair,
and
again,
thank
you.
Thank
you
doctor
for
the
important
work
you're
doing
so,
just
just
as
a
follow-up,
maybe
to
council
braden's
one
of
her
questions
on
on
some
low-cost
care,
but
I
probably
should
know
the
answer
to
this,
but
does
the
city
of
boston
or
does
does
the
state
of
massachusetts
provide
any
type
of
almost
like
insurance?
C
C
Okay,
do
we
know-
or
maybe
I
don't
know
if
council
block
or
council
brady
might
know
this,
but
do
we
know
if
there
are
any
cities
across
the
country
that
that
do
that
type
of
service
that
provide
some
type
of
insurance
where,
if
your
pet
does
get
sick
and
you're
paying
into
this
part
of
part
of
money
that
you
do
get
some
type
of
insurance
or
some
type
of
medical
care
based
on
the
monthly
payment
you
send?
I
was
just
wondering
if
there
were
any
other
cities
across
the
country
that
might
do
something
like
that.
E
A
F
Yeah-
and
I
would
say
I
mean
I
think,
broadly
speaking,
you
know
we
do
need
to
center
more
around
surveillance
of
just
you
know
zoonotic
diseases,
as
we
think
about
both
animals
and
people,
and
I
think
an
excellent
example
of
that
is
in
mosquitoes
we
often
sort
of
track.
You
know
mosquitoes
that
test
positive
for
certain
diseases
like
west
nile
that
can
be
transmitted
to
humans
and
that's
here
available
at
suffolk
county.
F
So
you
know,
for
example,
I
mentioned
the
salmonellosis
cases
and
that
was
actually
quite
recently
in
pet
food
that
we
had
seen
sort
of
cases
of
salmonella.
We
see
other
diseases
and
I
think
just
trying
to
you
know
inv.
You
know
envisioning
support
for
households,
we
might
see
more.
You
know
we
might
potentially
see
more
reporting
of
such
cases
and
sort
of
more
diagnoses,
for
example
in
the
in
human
counterparts
in
the
home.
A
A
Like
I
guess,
what's
the
does
the
veterinary
community
also
focus
on
that
risk
on
the
human
side
like?
Is
there
communication
with
sort
of
with
like
the
doctors
like
I'm
just
sort
of
wondering,
is
that
is
that
public
health
piece
a
standard
piece
of
our
veterinary
education,
or
is
that
something
we
need
to
work
on
like?
How
should
I
think
about
this?
I
think.
F
It's
definitely
something
we
need
to
work
on
sort
of
more
of
that
collaboration
across
public
health,
scientists,
veterinarians,
physicians
and
you
know
epidemiologists,
certainly
in
the
individual
household.
That
communication
might
exist.
However,
I
think
globally
speaking
sort
of
the
understanding,
even
at
the
commission,
for
example,
of
what
education
we
might
need
to
offer.
You
know,
depending
on
what
we
see
in
our
own
boston,
households,
I
think,
would
be
important
and
that
would
rely
on
more
needed.
Communication,
like
you
outlined.
A
And
do
you
know,
do
we
what
what
are
sort
of
the
trends
on
the
exotic
pet
front?
These
days,
like
is,
that
is
that
up
or
down
does
that
bring
particular
disease
risk
factors
like
when
we
talk
about?
I
don't
know
parrots
and,
like
reptiles,
we've
been
talking
mainly
about
dogs
and
cats.
I
feel
like
because
those
are
the
dominant
pets
of
the
city,
but
just
sort
of
curious
about
whether
the
controls
on
those
have
gotten
better
or
worse
late.
In
recent
years.
A
Was
just
curious
what
the
trends
are.
I
know
that
there
is
a
while
back.
There
was
sort
of
a
move
to
like
discourage
the
traffic
of
exotic
animals
in
various
ways.
I
know
certain
pet
stores
stopped
carrying
certain
types
and
I'm
just
kind
of
curious.
It's
it's
not
something
that
I've
paid
close
attention
to,
but
whether
there
are
strong
trends
on
that
front.
Yeah.
E
A
A
But
what
are
the
other
things
that
you
think
that,
and
I
mean
I
think,
council
braden's
already
modeled
a
good
example
of
saying:
hey.
We've
got
a
bit
of
a
desert
in
terms
of
access
to
a
clinic
here.
Can
we
have
one
of
the
pop-ups
in
austin
brighton,
but
are
there
other
things
that
we
that
you
guys
wish
that?
Those
of
us
who
hang
out
here
on
the
fifth
floor
of
city
hall
were
focused
on
yeah.
E
A
E
Yes,
so
most
of
our
critical
documents
have
been
translated
into
the
languages
that
the
city
of
boston
requires,
and
so
residents
do
have
access
to
that
if
they
need,
if
they
call
in
we're
able
to
access
the
interpretations
that
the
city
has
in
place.
A
couple
members
of
our
veterinary
team
are
bilingual
and
spanish,
but
we
don't
have
any
additional
staff
members
who
are
fluent
in
any
other
language
other
than
english.
E
E
E
B
You
know,
as
we
as
we
think
about
this
this
past
summer,
we've
had
several
heatwaves
and
and
folks
we've
had
brown
outs
and
also
brighton
and
folks
had
had
to
go
to
a
cooling
center.
So
one
of
the
questions
constituents
are
saying
I
need
to
go
to
the
cooling
center.
Can
I
bring
my?
Can
I
bring
my
pet
with
me,
so
you
know
in
terms
of
thinking
about
emergency
planning.
B
B
The
cat
could
be
rescued,
but
I
think
you
know
that's
one
big
concern,
especially
in
our
older
population,
if
there's
an
emergency
and
you
have
to
go
to
a
cooling
center
for
your
own
health
and
well-being,
sometimes
pet
owners
will
stay
home
and
put
themselves
in
danger,
rather
than
then
go
and
be
safe.
So
do
we
have?
Is
that
part
of
our
conversation
in
terms
of
emergency
planning
in
the
city?
I
know
this
is
sort
of
slightly
tangential
to
what
we're
talking
about,
but
there's
a
lot
of
interconnectedness
between
all
of
these
issues.
E
Absolutely
while
we
don't
really
have
a
plan
to
address
the
amount
of
the
population
that
we
serve
for
residents
who
are
who
communicate
that
they
are
concerned
and
they
need
assistance,
we
do
have
crisis
boarding
and
we've
extended
that
type
of
service.
As
far
as
taking
animals
in
so
the
owner
is
able
to
get
themselves
into
a
cooling
center.
E
A
A
All
right
well,
thank
you
guys
so
much.
I
do
want
to
get
our
second
panel
up
here,
so
I
think
I'll
invite
them
to
join
us,
we're
being
joined
by
miss
alyssa
krieger,
the
community
outreach
program
director
from
the
mspca,
dr
leslie
sharkey
and
dr
jennifer
grady,
both
from
the
department
of
clinical
sciences
at
chopsticks
university
and
then
dr
edwards
shettino,
the
president,
ceo
of
the
american
rescue
league
of
boston.
A
A
I
And
so
there
are
financial
qualifications
for
clients
to
bring
their
pets
to
tufts
tech.
It's
a
snap!
So
the
food
assistance
program,
wic
worcester,
public
housing,
the
worcester
housing
authority,
as
well
as
having
a
student
in
the
vocational
high
school.
Those
would
be
the
qualifications
to
come
there.
I
We
do
urgent
care,
we
do
wellness
care
vaccine
type
of
things.
We
do
surgery,
elective
and
urgent
emergency
surgery
and
dentistry,
and
the
clinic
was
opened
with
an
idea
that
it
would
be
more
of
a
wellness
clinic,
but
we
found
that
actually,
the
need
of
that
community
was
much
higher
towards
the
urgent
care
and
emergency
type
of
care
and
the
community
we
serve
often
can't
afford
traditional
pricing
for
especially
emergency
and
sick
animal
care.
So
we
see
the
bulk
of
our
caseload
as
animals
that
are
sick
rather
than
just
wellness
and
vaccines.
I
But
the
language
barrier
is
also
a
big
challenge
that
we
have
with
care
and
we
do
have
a
vet
assistant
who
we
hired
who's
a
native
spanish
speaker
and
we
have
a
veterinarian
who
also
speaks
spanish
and
it
makes
a
huge
difference
for
the
quality
of
care
and
our
ability
to
provide
care
for
a
spanish-speaking
community.
We
have
about
20
native
spanish
speakers
in
our
client
base.
I
I
Yeah,
there's
I
mean
there's
so
many
barriers
to
care
that
we've
bumped
into
a
lot
of
clients
have
transportation
challenges,
and
so
we
have
gotten
grant
funding
to
be
able
to
provide
cat
vouchers
for
clients
coming.
So
they
can
get
a
cab
voucher
and
get
transported
out
to
the
clinic
and
then
back
to
their
home
with
their
pet
and
then
another
arm
of
tufts
also
does
some
outreach
where
they
actually
take
students
and
vaccines
and
and
go
to
different
addresses
in
the
worcester
housing
authority
to
provide
care
as
well.
I
And
then
we
have
separate
grant
funding
that
actually
provides
care
that
the
veterinary
students
can
request
to
use
funds
to
help
owners
with
with
bills
that
they
can't
afford
the
full
amount
which
we
call
the
bridge
grant,
meaning
it
like
bridges.
The
gap
between
the
need
for
care
and
the
their
financial
inability
to
to
pay
for
that
care,
and
the
veterinary
students
really
have
relationships
with
the
clients.
And
so
they
can.
Let
us
know
where
that
that
money
is
best
needed.
I
So
we
do
have
a
lot
we're
lucky
to
have
a
lot
of
resources
to
help
aside
from
just
existing,
and
our
prices
are
about
a
quarter
to
a
fifth
of
the
national
average
for
veterinary
services.
So
it's
not
free,
but
it's
a
greatly
reduced
cost
and
our
clients
love
their
pets,
quite
a
lot
which
probably
doesn't
need
to
be
said
in
this
circle
and
they're
so
devoted,
and
they
they
do
spend
quite
a
lot
of
their
resources
on
their
pets.
So
it's
really
great
to
be
able
to
provide
them
with
care.
H
H
I
think
the
role
of
the
vet
school
here
I
mean
our
primary
mission.
We
love
to
work
in
these
communities,
but
our
primary
mission
is
really
education
and
innovation,
and
so
I
think
the
role
of
coming
school
is
providing
students
with
an
education,
including
working
in
the
clinic
where
jenny
does,
where
we're
really
teaching
them
to
work
with
the
entire
breadth
of
pet
owners.
H
You
know
in
making
sure
that
they
have
the
skill
sets
necessary
to
provide
care
plans
at
you
know
different
levels,
whether
we're
talking
about
money
or
whether
we're
talking
about
language
or
whether
we're
talking
about
individuals
who
have
disabilities
and
say
can't
read
labels
or
open
pill
boxes.
You
know,
there's
all
sorts
of
things
that
we
need
to
support
them
around.
H
A
J
Hi,
thank
you
so
much
for
having
me
my
name
is
melissa
krieger.
I
am
the
associate
director
of
community
outreach
at
the
mspca.
I'm
excited
to
talk
about
this
because
it's
all
I
ever
talked
about.
So
I'm
glad
to
have
someone
who
is
interested
in
listening.
A
lot
of
the
things
that
I
have
written
down
have
already
been
said.
J
We
also
do
four
clinics
a
year
in
the
city
of
boston,
at
least
that
are
usually
held
at
housing
authorities.
So
we
do
one.
Typically,
we
typically
do
two
at
the
mildred
haley
apartments,
given
that
it's
the
biggest
boston
housing
complex
and
then
we've
been
doing
them
at
archdale
as
well
in
roslindale
and
at
those
we
provide
the
same
so
rabies,
distemper
and
microchipping,
as
well
as
like
brief
exams
and
vouchers
for
spay
neuter.
J
We
also
provide
free
or
low
cost
spay
neuter
to
residents
through
our
community
clinic
at
the
boston,
shelter
and
in
2020.
We
opened
our
what
was
previously
just
our
shelter
in
spay
neuter
clinics
up
into
a
more
urgent
care
clinic
as
well,
so
we're
now
providing
urgent
care
for
broken
legs
wounds,
pyometras
a
whole
range
of
sort
of
more
emergent
medical
care
for
low-cost
clients.
So
it's
a
kind
of
a
similar
model
to
what
tufts
of
tech
is
doing
in
in
that
regard.
J
We
know
that
what
we
can
do
doesn't
really
scratch
the
surface.
One
of
the
things
that
I
see
as
like
a
really
critical
missing
piece
is
that,
what's
in
between
the
vaccine,
clinics
and
the
urgent
care,
so
managing
diabetes
or
allergies,
or
like
kind
of
long-term
chronic
issues
that
require
continual
care
from
a
regular
veterinarian
can
be
really
hard,
especially
for
for
low-income
families,
a
in
terms
of
getting
to
clinics
and
b
in
terms
of
the
cost
of
that.
K
J
Those
kind
of
transportation
issues
are
real
for
a
lot
of
people,
but
there's
also
the
the
issue
of
that.
A
lot
of
that
clinics
practice
during
regular
business
hours,
where
many
people
are
working
and
if
you're
working
and
living
paycheck
to
paycheck
being
able
to
take
time
off
of
work
to
go
to
a
vet
appointment
is
not
a
possibility.
J
Or
that
you
don't
know
where
to
go
or
what
your
closest
clinic
is
or
your
or
what
resources
might
be
available
to
you
like,
for
example,
in
austin,
there's
the
merwin
vet
clinic,
which
is
like
the
longest
standing
and
like
most
wonderful,
free
or
low
cost
back
clinic
in
the
city.
It's
been
there
forever
and
a
lot
of
people
might
not
even
know
it's
there.
J
J
But
then
again,
if
you
do
know
where
to
go,
the
language
thing
is
also
an
issue
so
being
able
to
communicate
complicated
medical
issues
in
a
language
that
you're
not
comfortable
in
or
that
you
don't
speak
at
all
is
really
problematic.
So
we
also
have
hired
a
few
people
who
speak
spanish
and
who
are
are
able
to
help,
but
there
are
lots
of
other
languages
in
the
city
that
we
don't
have
anybody
who
speak.
J
But
I
think
that
we've
all
in
our
lifetime
or
in
our
careers
heard
somebody
say
like
if
you
can't
afford
a
pet
you
shouldn't
have
one
and
that
feeling,
I
think,
is
really
felt
by
communities
who
have
less
money,
and
so
when
they
go
to
a
clinic
and
the
gold
standard
of
care
is
suggested.
But
they
can't
do
that.
There's,
definitely
a
feeling
of
like
judgment
and
a
feeling
of
like
nervousness
like.
Are
they
gonna
get
in
trouble?
J
J
J
We
provide
free,
spay,
neuter
vaccinations
transportation
to
those
appointments,
but
also
we
are
there
all
the
time,
we're
in
the
community.
Listening
to
people
talking
to
people,
answering
questions
and
putting
people
in
touch
with
either
our
resources
or
other
resources
so
that
they
know
what
they,
what
what
is
available
to
them
and
creating
that
trust
in
the
communities
has
been
a
really
has
been
really
like.
J
I
love
it
so
much
and
also
just
like
really
impactful,
because
there
are
a
lot
of
people
who
may
not
seek
out
the
information,
and
so
us
being
there
on
a
regular
basis
and
getting
to
know
people
and
building
trust,
especially
because
listen,
the
mspca
has
been
around
for
a
long
time
and
we've
done
a
lot
of
things.
We
have
a
law
enforcement
department.
We
have
the
shelters
that
historically,
it
was,
if
you
can't
afford
care
surrender
your
pet,
and
so
there
have.
J
There
has
been
some
trust
issues
with
us
given
given
that
history,
and
I
think
that
it's
important
to
recognize
that
we
used
to
do
that
like
if
you
couldn't
afford
care
just
give
it
to
us,
we'll
find
somebody
who
can
and
now
we
obviously
are
working
really
hard
to
not
take
people's
pets
as
much
as
we
possibly
can
we're.
You
know
running
the
clinics
and
doing
all
those
things,
but
building
back
trust
in
the
community
between
the
institutions
of
you
know.
J
J
K
Thank
you
very
much.
Thank
you
for
inviting
us
here
this
evening
afternoon
on
this
very
important
topic,
really
appreciate
it.
I'm
dr
edward
scottino,
president
and
ceo
of
the
animal
rescue
eagle
boston,
the
animal
wrestling
of
boston
was
founded
in
1899
by
a
social
worker
in
dorchester
anna
harris
smith.
Anna
harris-smith
saw
the
cruelty
and
neglect
of
horses
and
dogs
and
cats
on
the
streets
and
children
that
were
being
desensitized
to
this
trauma
and
that's
how
she
founded
the
organization
we
have
three
brick
and
mortar
locations.
Our
largest
is,
in
the
south
end
in
boston.
K
K
Our
mission
is
to
be
an
unwavering
champion
for
animals
in
need
committed
to
keeping
them
safe
and
healthy
in
homes
and
out
of
shelters.
We
have
over
100
employees
and
over
a
thousand
volunteers,
we
are
a
non-profit.
We
receive
no
state
or
federal
support.
We
rely
solely
on
the
support
of
individuals,
foundations
and
grants
as
an
animal
welfare
organization.
We
provide
a
holistic
approach
to
animal
welfare.
We
do
this
through
a
variety
of
programs,
as
well
as
our
partnerships
with
human
service
organizations.
K
Besides
the
three
brick
and
mortar
locations,
we
have
two
mobile
vehicles:
the
spay
wagon
and
the
wellness
wagon.
The
spay
wagon
is
our
mobile
surgical
unit
that
provides
low-cost,
high-quality
high-volume,
spay
or
neutral
surgeries.
It
allows
us
to
meet
pet
owners
where
they
are
providing
care
in
areas
that
are
often
underserved,
starting
in
2000.
K
The
spay
wagon
focused
mainly
on
cape
cod
and
the
south
shore,
but
we've
been
able
to
increase
our
services
to
here
in
boston.
Since
the
inception
of
the
spay
wagon,
we
spayed
or
neutered
over
66
000
animals
in
2020,
the
spay
wagon
returned
back
to
boston
and
we
have
spayed
roughly
600
animals
in
boston.
K
Approximately
250
surgeries
in
boston
annually,
since
creating
our
new
partnerships
in
2015
arl
undertook
a
strategic
shift.
We
asked
ourselves
what
services
can
and
should
we
provide
to
keep
pets
and
people
together
before
the
decision
has
been
made
to
surrender
their
pet
and
the
human
animal
bond
is
broken.
K
The
goal
of
our
program
in
codman
square
was
to
create
a
partnership
with
community-based
human
service
organizations
to
understand
and
support
the
link
between
the
health
of
animals
and
people,
understanding
that
a
community
cannot
be
healthy
without
providing
services
to
animals
that
live
in
their
community.
The
one
health
concept
we
perform
partnerships
with
the
codman
academy
charter,
public
school
cadman,
health
center,
dorchester,
ymca
and
boston
senior
home
care.
K
K
K
K
We
also
started
to
understand
that
there
were
other
communities
besides
codman
square,
that
needed
our
assistance
so
to
provide
accessible
veterinary
care
in
multiple
communities.
We
realized
that
we
needed
to
be
mobile,
so
in
2019
the
wellness
wagon
began.
It's
a
mobile
full-service
veterinary
clinic
the
wellness
wagon
provides
for
ten
dollars
veterinary
exams
for
dogs
or
cats.
It
includes
a
physical
exam,
rabies,
vaccines,
distemper
vaccines,
flea
treatment,
microchip
and
basic
medical
concerns
are
addressed,
such
as
skin
issues,
air
issues,
which
are
the
predominant
these
would
normally
cost
about
300
in
a
full
service.
K
Veterinary
hospital
aerial
has
partnered,
with
action
for
boston,
community
development
to
have
permanent
locations
for
our
wellness.
Wagon
abcd
saw
the
value
of
this
partnership
and
providing
care
for
the
entire
family,
including
pets.
We
know
that
one
of
the
most
crucial
items
in
accessing
care
is
continued
and
reliable
access.
K
K
K
We
know
that
there
is
a
desire
to
increase
the
number
of
locations
we
serve
and,
in
fact,
abcd
has
reached
out
to
us
and
wants
us
at
austin
and
brighton.
However,
we
can't
we
are
limited
by
funding
funding
to
hire
the
appropriate
staff
and
funding
to
pay
competitive
salaries
to
retain
our
veterinary
and
technicians.
K
The
dorchester
zip
codes
consistently
had
the
highest
number
of
animal
surrenders.
Our
dorchester
location
for
the
wellness
wagon
has
existed
the
longest
and
provides
the
best
indication
as
to
the
success
of
this
program
in
keeping
pets
and
people
together.
Families
together
preliminary
data
shows
since
2018
total
owner
surrenders
from
the
zip
codes
we
serve,
have
decreased
owner
surrenders
from
dorchester.
Zip
code
have
decreased,
25
percent
owners
surrenders
from
matapan
have
decreased,
33
percent
owners
surrenders
from
hyde
park,
have
decreased
19
and
owners
surrenders
from
east
boston
have
decreased
28
percent.
K
Our
goal
is
to
provide
resources,
so
families
can
keep
their
pets
and
stay.
Whole
data
shows
that
providing
accessible
low-cost
veterinary
care
can
keep
pets
and
families
together
and
once
again,
this
creates
a
healthy
community
for
both
the
people
and
for
the
pets.
Thank
you
very
much
for
this
opportunity
greatly
appreciate
it.
A
B
Many
inspiring
stories
and
a
whole
spectrum
of
ways
to
go
at
it.
You
know,
I
know
you
speak
highly
of
merwin
clinic,
I
I
know
very
familiar
with
merwin.
I
think
they
are
they're.
Bending
onto
the
strain
of
increased
demand,
a
huge
increase
in
demand.
I
think
they
used
to
have
a
clinic
twice
a
week.
I
think
they're
doing
clinic
five
times
a
week
and
and
there's
people
queued
up
down
the
street
every
day
every
day.
B
Yeah
so
there's
a
huge
demand
and
there's
a
huge
need,
and
I
think,
just
in
the
present
climate,
with
increased
inflation
and
the
cost
of
of
living
in
our
city,
we
have
so
many
residents
who
need
that
accessible,
low-cost
care
that
you're
talking
about
so
in
terms
of
you
know,
you
can't
expand
adults
in
brighton,
even
though
abcd
would
love
to
have
you
in
terms
of
expanding
like
what
are
your
funding
sources
and
how?
What
do
you?
K
There's
a
lack
you
can
do
to
help
our
funding
sources
are
through
private
supporters.
The
majority
of
our
funding
comes
through
our
service
revenue
from
other
programs.
We
have
a
third,
the
majority
comes
from
private
supporters,
foundations
and
grants
having
local
community
support.
Federal
support.
K
B
And
I
I
really
was
interested
to
hear
the
sort
of
wonderful
collaboration
and
partnership
you
have
with
the
worcester
vocational
technical
high
school.
It
seems
like
your.
Your
veterinary
students
are
getting
a
great
opportunity
to
interact
with
a
wide
range
of
you
know,
clients
and
their
pets,
and
and
then
the
the
high
school
gets
an
opportunity
to
train
their
veterinary
technicians
and
folks,
who
would
have
a
career,
maybe
in
the
as
as
veterinary
veterinary
veterinary
care
technicians
going
forward.
So
it
seems
like
a
an
ideal
partnership.
B
You
know
I'm
just
thinking
about
the
need
for
more
veterinary
personnel,
not
only
the
doctors,
the
veterinary
doctors,
but
the
veterinary
technicians.
Is
there
any
any
conversations
about
expanding
veterinary
technician,
training
within
boston
and
like
that
at
our
vocational
high
school?
Or
is
that?
Is
that
something
that
we
should
be
looking
at
as
a
way
to
increase
our
personnel
capacity
and
to
do
basic
sort
of
support
care
rather
than
a
fully
licensed
vet
veterinarian.
K
K
That's
our
relationship
with
the
base
in
roxbury,
it's
providing
mentorship
opportunities
to
provide
children,
young
kids,
opportunities,
understanding
that
there
are
careers
in
animal
welfare.
Not
excuse
me,
you
don't
have
to
be
a
veterinarian,
but
there
are
careers
in
animal
welfare
and
there
are
opportunities-
and
that
was
part
of
our
relationship
with
the
base-
is
providing
that
to
start,
hopefully,
the
pipeline
of
young
children
that
are
from
boston,
getting
more
involved
and
also
help
diversify
animal
welfare,
which
is
also
a
struggle
that
we
do
face.
B
And
I
think
you
bring
up
an
important
point
here,
I'm
just
curious
in
terms
of
the
part:
your
vet,
you
know
you're
you're,
a
leading
veterinarian
school
in
in
new
england
you're
the
only
veterinarian
school,
but
in
terms
of
diversity,
of
the
folks
who
come
into
to
your
veterinary
programs.
And
what
does
that
look
like
in
terms
of
being
able
to?
H
So
across
the
country
in
the
avma,
the
american
veterinary
medical
association
is
aware
of
this
issue,
and
so
there
are
diversity
initiatives
at
the
national
level,
tufts
university
just
embarked
on
a
big
diversity,
equity
and
inclusion
sort
of
program.
Where
that's
a
lot
of
focus,
I
think
that
having
efforts
like
mspca
and
arl
go
into
underserved,
neighborhoods
and
model
even
having
veterinary
medicine
present
in
these
communities
is
a
good
start.
H
I
think
what
jenny
and
her
team
are
doing.
You
know
in
in
a
school
where
there
are
more
students
of
color
and
giving
them
you
know
really
strong
connection
to
the
profession
early.
I
just
wanted
to
speak
a
little
bit
about
the
technician
situation
during
covid,
two
of
our
largest
vet
tech
programs
in
our
area
becker
and
mount
ida
closed,
and
we
have
an
issue
of
student
debt
at
the
technician
level
and
the
veterinarian
level
so
that
it
it
sort
of
the
debt
loads,
make
it
harder
for
technicians
and
veterinarians
to
choose
jobs.
H
It
puts
financial
pressure
on
our
partners
because
the
veterinarians
and
the
technicians
need
to
make
a
salary
that
allows
them
to
pay
their
educational
debt,
and
so
that's
just
another
struggle
that
we
all
kind
of
share.
We
wish
we
didn't
have
to
charge
that
much
money
and
we
struggle
with
it
too.
So
we
have
spent
a
lot
of
time
at
tufts
a
lot
of
focus
of
fundraising
on.
J
Folks,
who
are
entering
that
veterinary
technician,
programs
that
work
for
us,
so
that's
one
of
the
ways
that
we've
been
trying
to
address
it
as
well.
One
of
the
other
things
that
I
just
wanted
to
mention
is
that
we've
been
in
communication
with
the
the
curly
school
about
getting
some
just
like
early
education
about
animal
welfare,
jobs
and
things
like
that
into
kids
heads
now,
while
they're
yeah,
you
know
so
doing.
J
That
kind
of
like
programming
in
schools
is
something
that
we
are
hoping
to
the
curly's
just
right
around
the
corner
from
us,
but
the
you
know
the
more
we
can
kind
of
get
into
the
like
middle
school,
high
school
kind
of
age
group
and
talk
about
you
know
being
a
veterinarian
or
a
vet
tech
or
any
of
the
other.
You
know.
Kind
of
positions
that
are
available
in
animal
welfare
is
something
that
we
hope
to
do
to
increase
visibility
and
diversity
and
and
that
kind
of
thing
in
the
city,
yeah.
H
I
As
well,
one
being
in
a
vocational
high
school,
we
find
that
even
though
they
qualify
by
going
to
the
school,
many
of
the
students
at
the
high
school
would
also
qualify
financially
to
come
to
the
clinic
and
they
are
in
the
same
community
as
a
lot
of
our
client
base
and
we've
hired
a
couple
of
graduates
from
that
program.
And
so
I
think
also
having
staff
from
the
local
community
is
important
from
a
diversity
perspective
and
just
like
you're
talking
about
the
relationship
with
the
community
and
the
trust
issues.
I
Well,
I
just
our
first
vet
assistant
high
school
student,
recently
graduated
from
veterinary
school
so
and
there
there
is
some
scholarship
money
to
send
specifically
the
high
school
students
coming
from
our
program,
those
interested
in
going
to
veterinary
school
to
help
fund
their
veterinary
education
as
well.
So
I
think,
having
that
pipeline
is
also
important
to
increase
the
diversity
in
the
profession.
K
One
of
the
things
as
dr
sharky
mentioned,
one
of
the
things
I'm
most
excited
about
with
our
wellness
wagon
is
when
the
wellness
wagon
shows
up
in
a
community
for
appointments.
It's
not
just
the
pet
and
the
caregiver
of
the
pet.
Usually
the
family
comes
along
and
it's
an
opportunity
for
a
child
to
see
something
new
like
most
veterinarians.
A
Okay,
a
few
questions
from
me.
I
guess
I
mean
one
would
be
in
and
forgive
my
ignorance
but
the
like.
How
does
veterinarian
compensation
broadly
work
in
the
u.s
like?
Is
it
at
like?
I
know
that
on
the
doctor's
side,
obviously
lots
of
people
make
their
money
off
of
fee-for-service,
and
so
I'm
just
curious.
Is
that
also
how
and
the
reason
I'm
asking
this
is
because
I'm
trying
to
think
about
when
you
set
up
competitive,
low-cost
models.
A
K
K
There
is
more
income
that
comes
in
when
you
do
that,
working
at
a
nonprofit
like
ourselves
and
I'm
assuming
the
mspca,
we
don't
have
those
resources.
Veterinarians
get
compensated
with
the
fee
for
service.
As
you
mentioned,
there
isn't
a
fee
for
service
for
ten
dollars
for
a
wellness
exam
with
the
clients,
so
we
do
have
to
pay
competitive
salaries.
K
A
H
Well,
I
mean
they're
they're,
regional
variations
and
and
variations
depending
on
what,
whether
you
work
in
large
animal
or
small
animal,
but
I
would
say
most
entry-level
graduates
and
jenny.
You
might
know
this.
You
know
they're,
probably
working
in
the
well
recently,
it's
gone
up
a
lot
but
like
80
to
120
for
new
grads
might
make
that
I.
H
And
so
now
we
have
a
little
bit
of
a
problem
on
the
university
side
because
we
pay
our
faculty
who
get
additional
four
to
ten
years
of
training
after
vet
school.
We
pay
our
faculty
essentially
pretty
much.
What
the
new
grads
are
getting
we're
really
strained.
So
we
have
lots
of
open
positions
both
at
tufts
and
at
veterinary
schools
across
the
country.
So
our
model
needs
some
revision
because
the
vet
schools
across
the
board
have
been
unable
to
respond,
probably
just
very
similar
to
you.
H
A
H
H
So
I
think
there
are
people
who
would
like
to
go
to
vet
school,
who
maybe
have
had
the
benefit
of
having
you
know
some
positive
experiences
with
one
of
these.
You
know
one
of
the
other
individuals
sitting
on
this
panel,
and
yet
you
know
there's
just
no
way
that
they're
going
to
be
able
to
make
that
choice
to
go
to
vet
school.
A
I
I
I
Train
to
be
a
veterinary
technician,
which
is
sort
of
a
a
step
up
in
terms
of
salary
and
also
job
responsibility,
but
the
veterinary
assistants
and
technicians
are
not
paid
appropriately
for
the
work
that
they
do.
I
even
and
more
dramatically
than
veterinarians,
their
salaries
are,
are
too
low
and
it's
hard
to
retain
good
folks
in
those
positions,
because
they
do
the
bulk
of
the
challenging
work
and
don't
get
compensated
appropriately.
So
that's
a
whole
other
issue
facing
the
profession
yeah.
A
You
know
for
in
a
way
that,
like
most
directly
ties
that
kind
of
like
educational
credentialing
to
a
job
at
the
other
end
and
one
that
doesn't
have
this
kind
of
debt
earnings
mismatch.
I
think
that's
for
us
been
kind
of
the
direction
that
our
office
of
workforce
development's
been
pushing
on
a
bunch
of
different
fields.
I
haven't
had
the
opportunity
to
discuss
veterinary
care
before,
but.
I
A
A
doctor
yeah
I
mean
no,
it
seems
I
mean
we
just
in
the
city
of
boston
again
in
a
different
field,
unbundled
our
arborist
positions,
realizing
that
well,
there's
some
very
specific
things
that
we
need
fully
credentialed
arborists
to
be
overseeing
like
the
arborist
needs
to
tell
you.
You
can't
cut
that
branch
off
the
tree
because
it'll
throw
off
its
balance
or
it'll.
It'll
kill
the
whole
thing
but
like
he
doesn't
actually
also
he
or
she
or
anyone
right
doesn't
actually
have
to
be
the
one
who
cuts
that
branch
right
and
so
in
the
city.
A
K
Roxbury
community
college:
I
believe
they
had
a
vet
tech
assistant
program,
I'm
not
sure
if
they
still
do,
and
that
is
something
that
I
think
should
be
evaluated
and
looked
at
because
a
vet
tech
assistant
program.
I
think,
there's
minimal
debt
if
any
coming
out
of
that
program,
and
then
they
can
work
in
any
veterinary
setting,
and
that
is
a
wonderful
career
pathway
to
get
started
to
experience.
K
K
J
G
A
Well,
I
think
that's
something
for
us
to
look
further
into
and
follow
up
on.
I
also
think
that
you
know,
obviously,
as
we
think
about
like
what
what
could
the
city
do?
That's
more
robust
for
us
like,
because
the
municipal
side
never
can
never
solve
all
of
the
need
right.
Neither
can
any
of
your
organizations,
but
you
know,
thinking
about.
A
Are
there
ways
to
to
pair
stepping
up
municipal
offerings
with
some
kind
of
pipeline
or
training
program
right
so
that
you're
kind
of
having
an
impact
beyond
just
the
number
of
appointments
that
you
can
cover
feels
feels
attractive,
but
but
I
I
feel
much
better
educated
on
all
of
this
and
and
hugely
appreciative
of
everything
that
you
guys
are
doing.
It
was
really.
It
was
really
great
to
hear.
I
grew
up
in
bay
village,
just
across
the
street,
from
the
brick
and
mortar
for
the
animal
rescue
league.
A
A
Right,
like
I
think,
and
now
I
understand
how
that's
ended
up
being
the
case,
because
if
obviously
you
know
this
is
a
chamber
where
we
talk
about
all
kinds
of
human
needs
every
day,
but
obviously
the
pet
and
animal
welfare
world
is
also
is
also
part
of
kind
of
our
overall
community
needs.
So
I
appreciated
the
education
on
one
health
as
well.
I
want
to
pass
it
off
for
a
closing
statement
to
my
colleague,
counselor
braden
I'll,
be
going
in
a
moment
to
public
testimony.
A
B
You
all
for
being
here
there's
one
follow-up
on
our
conversation
about
the
cost
of
veterinary
education.
Does
veterinary.
You
know
when
the
medical
sphere,
doctors,
nurse,
practitioners
and
physicians
assistants
can
get,
can
get
some
support
with
paying
off
their
their
student
loans
if
they
serve
in
a
community
health
center
to
have
do.
We
have
a
similar
sort
of
program
for
veterinary
care.
K
H
I
think
there
was
a
nervous
moment.
Yes,
for
that
moment,
do
you
want
to
share
about
that?
No
well,
the
federal
government
being
what
it
is
put
that
on
the
table
to
just
make
it
go
away,
and
so
I
think
a
lot
of
people
feel
that
they're
uncertain
of
the
federal
commitment
to
that
program
in
the
long
term.
H
So
the
avma
does
a
lot
of
advocacy
because
we
do
see
that
as
part
of
the
solution,
but
it
it
10
years
is
a
long
time
and
people
are
not
sure
you
know
there's
nothing
written
that
says.
If
you
start
this
program,
you
will
finish
it
and
so
congress,
every
once
in
a
while.
Just
takes
a
look
at
getting
rid
of
it,
and
so
people
get
very
anxious.
I.
B
Know
10
years
is
a
long
big
commitment,
but
even
even
a
six
year
commitment
would
be
would
be
more
more
manageable.
You
get
your
head
around
that
better
than
but
anyway,
it
just
seems
like
I'm
glad
they're,
I'm
glad
that's
an
option
so
in
in
summing
up.
I
really
want
to
thank
you
all
for
being
here
and
thank
you
for
being
here
as
well.
This
is
a
conversation
I
think
we
need
to
continue.
There's
obviously
a
great
need
out
there.
B
I
see
the
cues,
I
see
the
lines
of
dogs
and
cats
and
people
outside
in
the
maryland
clinic
every
every
week.
So-
and
I
know
this
is
not
we're
not
the
only
neighborhood.
That's
got
this.
I'm
delighted
to
see
you
know
folks
adopting
animals
from
shelters
and
and
taking
them
into
their
homes,
and
you
know
seeing
this
this
change
that
we
have
had,
but
that
the
need
for
affordable,
accessible
healthcare
for
our
animals
is
really
important,
given
the
cost
of
living
in
the
city
of
boston.
So
I
appreciate
all
your
work.
B
G
A
I
guess
we
don't
have
any
public
testimony
so
I'll
remind
folks
one
more
time
that
if
you
want
to
send
something
after
the
fact,
if
you're
watching
this,
you
can
send
it
to
ccc.csit
I'm
at
boston.gov
and
yeah
much
more
to
come.
It
sounds
like
something
you
know
going
to
be
going
into
budget
season
again
before
we
know
it.
So
it's
good
to
be
talking
about,
and
I
think
also
you
know
good
to
think
about
just
all
the
ways
at
the
state
and
the
federal
level
and
everything
that
we
got.