►
From YouTube: Committee on Government Accountability, Transparency & Accessibility on March 22, 2022
Description
Docket #0200 - Hearing on government transparency and accountability towards surveillance equipment
A
A
A
Here
we
have
lisa
o'brien,
with
the
bureau
of
chief
administration
and
technology
superintendent,
felipe
colon
bureau,
chief
of
investigative
services
sergeant
detective
eric
bulman
who's,
with
special
investigations
unit
and
maurice
joyce,
the
city
auditor,
and
in
terms
of
panel
two
we
have
advocates
fatima
ahmad,
who
is
the
executive
director
of
the
muslim
justice
league
kate,
crawford,
who
is
the
director
of
technology
for
liberty
programs
at
aclum,
and
I
will
turn
it
over
to
my
colleagues
for
brief
opening
remarks.
Starting
with
my
co-sponsor,
a
counselor
at
royal
council,
you
now
have
the
floor.
B
Thank
you,
madam
chair
civil
forfeiture
funds
and
how
they
are
used
is
incredibly
important
to
the
city
and
why
they're,
using
the
way
they
are,
is
incredibly
important
to
understanding
the
decisions
made
by
not
just
bpd
but
the
city
of
boston
when
we
make
these
kinds
of
appropriations,
and
so
I
look
forward
to
hearing
discussing
what
decisions
are
made,
why
those
decisions
are
made
and
how
we
go
about
getting
from
point
a
to
point
b.
Thank
you,
madam
chair.
B
A
You
councilor,
and
I
believe
we
have
next
in
order
of
arrival-
is
counselor
bach.
You
now
have
the
floor.
C
Thank
you
so
much,
madam
chair,
thank
you
to
you
and
council
arroyo
for
filing
this.
I
share
a
lot
of
concern
about
civil
asset
forfeiture
period.
I
think
that
most
americans
assume
that
if
assets
are
going
to
be
seized,
it's
going
to
be
in
relation
to
a
judicial
process
and
the
fact
that's
not.
C
The
case,
I
think,
is
a
little
known
thing
among
the
public,
but
can
really
have
some
very
difficult
impacts
on
people,
but
also,
I
think
it
leads
to
these
types
of
transparency
challenges
where
the
council,
even
though
we
have
whole
budget
hearings
about
revolving
funds
that
include
very
small
amounts
of
money
and
somehow
the
way
that
this
money
is
coming
in
and
being
spent
is
not
coming
through
us,
and
I
think
that's
certainly
not
how
the
charter
of
the
city
is
designed
to
operate.
People
have
said
before
that.
C
It
is
crazy
that
if
you
spend
a
thousand
dollars
it
has
to
come
through
the
city
council,
but
I
think
that
that
really
does
ensure
transparency
and
the
fact
that
these
funds
are
skipping
us
all
together
is
deeply
concerning.
So
I
appreciate
you
using
your
chair
and
committee.
Madam
chair
to
to
really
draw
our
attention
to
this
and
figure
out
how
we
can
change
procedures
going
forward.
So
thank
you.
A
Thank
you,
councilor
bach.
I
believe
we
also
have
counselor
michael
flaherty
who's
at
large.
D
Thank
you,
madam
chair,
for
hosting
and
sponsoring
the
hearing,
and
thank
you
for
our
police
department
for
attending.
I
look
forward
to
the
discussion
learning
more
about
this
issue.
Obviously
the
technology
and
any
value
that
it
will
bring
our
city
and
helping
address,
concerns
and
questions
about
privacy
and
surveillance.
At
the
end
of
the
day,
we
want
to
make
sure
that
we
keep
our
residents
and
our
visitors
safe
at
all
times
and
look
forward
to
hearing
about
the
asset
forfeiture
as
well.
Thank
you,
madam
chairman,.
A
Thank
you,
councillor
flaherty.
I
believe
we
also
have
counselor
ruthlessly
louisian
at
large.
E
Yes,
good
morning,
everyone
thank
you
to
sponsors
for
bringing
this
issue
forward
to
counselors
arroyo
and
mayu,
and
then
council
wu
for
filing
surveillance
oversight
ordinance
and
to
all
the
investigative
journalism
that
brought
this
to
light,
because
before
that,
we
just
had
no
idea
that
this
was
happening.
E
The
responsibility
of
the
city
council
is
to
is
to
exercise
oversight,
powers
and,
as
a
new
counselor
myself,
it's
important
that
I
better
understand
how
procurement
works
and
how
it's
historically
worked
and
how
it's
to
work
to
with
the
full
implementation
of
the
surveillance
oversight,
ordinance
that
was
passed
last
year.
We
obviously
need
more
insight
and
oversight
on
how
so
for
future
dollars
are
used,
especially
for
the
purchase
of
items
that
may
serve
as
an
invasive
affront
to
our
privacy
rights.
E
We
also
know
that
civil
forfeiture
is
often
abused
and
serves
to
disadvantage
those
who
can't
fight
back,
often
innocent
folks,
so
here
to
listen
and
to
learn
thanks
bpd
for
being
here,
and
I
look
forward
to
this
hearing.
Thank
you.
A
Thank
you,
council
illusion.
I
would
just
would
like
to
take
a
quick
moment
to
to
offer
some
opening
remarks
of
my
own.
This
is
the
first
hearing
on
the
committee
of
government,
accountability,
transparency
and
accessibility,
and
in
light
of
this
occasion,
I
just
want
to
take
a
quick
minute
to
just
tell
you
a
little
bit
about
what
those
values
mean
to
us
as
a
body
in
light
of
this
hearing
order
in
particular.
So
let's
talk
about
transparency.
A
First,
when
we
talk
about
transparency,
it
means
fighting
for
the
right
to
keep
the
public
informed
and
engaged
on
all
matters
related
to
their
tax
dollars
and
their
city
government.
When
it
comes
to
accountability,
it's
a
reminder
that
we
work
for
the
people
and
not
the
other
way
around,
and
when
it
comes
to
accessibility,
it
means
that
the
work
of
our
city
should
be
conducted
should
not
be
conducted
behind
closed
doors
or
without
the
approval
of
the
voices
of
the
people.
A
I
found
out
when
I
found
out
that
the
boston
police
department
was
spending
civil
asset
dollars
on
surveillance
equipment
through
the
news.
This
was
entirely
unacceptable,
we're
here
today,
because
the
public
is
in
need
of
answers
to
burning
questions
about
the
state
of
surveillance
oversight
in
our
city.
A
For
those
who
do
not
know,
it
was
brought
to
our
attention
that
several
boston
city
councilors
in
december
of
2021,
that
the
boston
police
department
spent
over
600
thousand
dollars
on
a
sale
cell
site
stimulator
a
piece
of
surveillance
technology
that
allows
the
police
to
secretly
obtain
location.
Other
potential,
identifying
information
from
a
person's
cell
phone.
A
The
council
had
never
been
briefed
or
notified
of
this
purchase.
The
idea
of
a
city
government,
purchasing
surveillance
equipment
using
hidden
pots
of
money
is
exactly
why
our
body
passed
the
surveillance
oversight
ordinance
last
year.
This
era
of
secrecy
has
to
end.
A
I,
and
I
would
like
to
thank
my
co-sponsor
counselor
for
his
work
in
the
space
and
for
all
of
my
colleagues
for
their
attendance
here
today.
I
hope
that
we
can
walk
away
with
some
great
knowledge
and
action
items,
more
importantly,
for
increasing
accountability,
transparency
and
accessibility
moving
forward,
and
I
think
it's
really
important
to
recognize
that
our
job
as
the
city
council
is
to
be
the
fiscal
financial
stewards
of
this
conversation.
A
So
we
hope
that,
as
the
administration
moves
through
this
conversation,
recognizing
that
we
have
an
obligation
and
an
opportunity
to
really
bring
our
those
who
are
tuning
in
into
the
conversation
and
to
help
educate
them
in
terms
of
how
we
got
here.
So
thank
you
so
very
much
for
being
here
today.
It
means
a
lot
to
us.
A
A
I
will
start
with
the
chief
with
chief
lisa
o'brien,
then
go
to
superintendent,
philippe
colon,
then
sergeant
detective,
eric
pullman
and
finally
maureen
joyce,
the
city
auditor.
So
now
you
know
the
order
in
which
you're
going
to
appear
on
camera.
So
just
get
yourself
ready:
chief
lisa
o'brien!
You
now
have
the
floor.
F
Good
morning,
madam
chia,
thank
you
for
having
us
here.
We
are
delighted
basically
to
explain
the
procurement
of
of
this
good
and
also
to
where
the
funds
actually
came
from
I'm
open
for
any
questions
around
the
procurement.
F
Anything
any
questions
with
respect
to
the
equitable
share
and
trust
fund
that
we
have,
which
is
a
fund
that
we
have
as
a
result
of
a
federal
law,
the
actual
comprehensive
crime
control
act
of
1984,
which
is
how
this
trust
asset
corporation
trust,
started
and
was
actually
signed
between
the
federal
government
and
the
boston
police
department.
Back
in
1994.
G
Thank
you
lisa
good
morning,
I'm
superintendent
philippe
colon
commander
of
the
bureau
of
investigative
services
at
the
boston
police
department.
I
want
to
thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
testify,
at
this
hearing
today,
to
discuss
doctor
number
zero,
two
zero
zero
and
to
address
several
misconceptions
about
this
particular
piece
of
surveillance,
equipment
and
its
procurement.
G
As
you
already
know,
I'm
joined
here
by
lisa
o'brien
who's,
the
commander
of
the
administration
in
technology
bureau,
as
well
as
sergeant
detective
bowman
of
the
special
investigations
union
as
lisa.
Just
she
will
explain
the
public
procurement
process
used
to
obtain
the
cell
site
simulator
and
then
sergeant
bowman,
and
I
will
be
available
to
answer
any
questions
on
how
the
equipment
is
used
in
service
of
public
safety.
The
surveillance
equipment
in
question
was
purchased
long
before
the
surveillance
ordinance
was
created.
G
We
understand
that
it's
covered
under
the
surveillance,
ordinance
and
as
such
will
be
included
in
the
bpd's
surveillance
policy,
which
will
be
reviewed
by
the
city
council
later
this
year.
We
are
providing
to
the
council
extensive
documentation
on
the
procurement
of
this
technology,
as
well
as
a
spreadsheet
of
all
the
times.
This
technology
has
been
used.
G
I
will
now
yield
the
floor
to
my
colleague,
sergeant
bowman.
H
Good
morning,
thank
you
for
having
us.
My
name
is
sergeant
detective
eric
holman.
My
last
name
is
about
b.u.l.m.a.m,
I'm
a
supervisor
within
the
special
investigations
unit,
which
is
a
multi-agency
unit.
Within
the
bureau
of
investigative
services,
we
cut
conduct
investigation
on
organized
crime
in
violent
criminal
organizations.
H
A
Thank
you
so
much
we'll
move
over
now
to
the
auditorium.
I
Good
morning,
folks,
warren
joyce,
the
city
auditor,
thank
you
for
the
invitation
to
this
meeting
and
I
look
forward
to
understanding
the
issue
and
see
how
I
in
my
office
can
help
move
this
forward.
A
Great
thank
you
for
that.
I
am
now
I'm
going
to
know.
Thank
you
to
our
piano,
and
I
would
also
like
to
know
that
my
co-chair
counselor
edwards
of
district
1
has
joined
us
and
I
would
like
to
give
her
an
opportunity
to
make
opening
remarks.
J
Thank
you
very
much.
I
hope
you
can
hear
me.
I
apologize
to
background
noise,
but
I
I'll
just
simply
say
I'm
excited
about
this
conversation.
I
think
it's
a
necessary
practice
and
accountability.
Thank
you.
So
much
for
filing
this
ordinance.
J
I
wanted
to
make
sure
that
not
only
is
this
a
practice
in
accountability
and
conversation,
but
that
we
also
understand
thoroughly
how
the
ordinance
is
going
to
work-
and
I
appreciate
the
bpd
admitting
or
at
least
acknowledging,
that
this
would
have
been
under
the
ordinance
had
it
been
filed
and
passed
before
they
had
procured
this
particular
equipment.
So,
thank
you.
I'm
excited
for
this
conversation
and
thank
you
again.
California,.
A
Thank
you,
councillor
edwards.
I'm
going
to
open
up
on
the
floor
to
my
colleagues
to
ask
their
questions.
Starting
with
my
co-sponsor
councilor
arroyo.
B
Thank
you
if
you
can
give
me
if
you
come
back
to
me
in
the
next
one,
not
just
one
person,
I'm
trying
to
handle
something
real,
quick.
B
C
Thank
you
so
much.
I
wondered,
madam
chair.
If
the
department
could
walk
us
through
a
bit
how
civil
asset
forfeiture
funds
like
flow
as
a
standard
procedure,
so
you
know
how
they
come
in.
How
like
are?
Are
they
sort
of
certified
as
like?
Yes,
we're
holding
on
to
this
and
then
who
kind
of
makes
the
decision
about
how
those
are
appropriate.
A
So
that
actually
is
the
purpose
of
accessibility
for
these
hearings.
So
I
think
that's
a
really
great
question
to
ask
and
have
folks
walk
us
through,
because
this
is
what
we're
trying
to
do
is
make
government
accessible
to
the
people
and
if
people
don't
understand
the
language
and
don't
understand
what
it
is
that
we're
talking
about,
it's
going
to
be
low
and
void.
So
thank
you
so
very
much
counselor
rob
for
leading
with
that.
So
let's
do
it.
G
So
I
appreciate
the
question
regarding
the
civilian
forfeiture.
While
we,
the
bppd,
receive
a
portion
of
the
assets
that
are
forfeited,
those
cases
are
handled
and
controlled
by
the
prosecutors.
C
G
C
F
No
that
they're
not
held
by
bpd,
however,
when
the
portion
of
our
portion
comes
in
after
it's
been
determined
like
how
much
it's
going
to
be
shared
equitably,
it's
held
in
a
trust,
that's
managed,
or
that
the
custodian
is
the
treasure
of
the
city
of
boston
treasury
department.
So
it
comes
into
our
treasury
department
in
a
trust
fund
and
again
I
just
want
to.
F
Trust
agreement
was
signed
between
the
federal
government
and
the
boston
police
back
in
1997
and
not
1994.,
but
that's
that
so
we
have
no.
We
have
no
control
of
how
they
determine
how
much
our
share
is.
It's
based
on
the
investigation
and
the
outcome
of
the
investigation
and
then,
depending
on
how
many
parties
were
involved
in
the
investigation
based
on
the
trust
agreement.
It's
equitably
shared
amongst
those
agencies.
C
C
F
C
It
all
right-
and
I
think
I'll
just
say,
madam
chair-
for
the
record-
I
think
that
it
would
be
helpful
for
the
council
to
be
provided
by
with
the
the
funds,
the
trust
fund
documents,
both
the
agreement
from
97
and
also
understand
who
the
trustees
of
that
are.
I
don't
know
if
you
can
speak
to
who
the
trustees
are,
along
with
the
treasurer.
C
C
Yeah
I
mean,
I
imagine,
I
know
with
our
trust
funds,
there's
always
at
least
three
trustees.
It's
quite
standard
for
the
collector
treasurer
to
be
won,
but
I
would
just
like
to
understand
so
then,
once
the
funds
are
in
the
trust,
does
the
department
go
to
the
trust
with
proposals
on
how
the
money
should
be
spent.
F
So,
according
to
the
actual
fund
itself
is,
is
how
we
can
so.
For
example,
the
equitable
sharing
trust
fund
was
founded
for
the
purpose
of
enhancing
law
enforcement
efforts,
and
so
basically,
there
are
guidelines
in
the
trust
that
say
what
we
can
and
can't
spend
the
money
on
or
the
funds
on.
I
also
want
to
point
out
that
any
anything
that
we
take
out
of
the
trust
goes
through
the
treasury
department,
because
it's
close
to
the
trust
fund.
F
That's
that's
held
by
one
that
with
the
treasury
who's
the
custodian
of
the
fund,
but
but
every
purchase
that
is
made
goes
through
the
the
appropriate
procurement
process
under
mass
general
law,
and
in
this
case
we
followed
master
general
law
chapter
30,
because
it
was
a
good.
So
it
started
with
the
requisition.
F
F
F
We
received
four
interested
parties
that
were
interested
and
looked
at
that
proposal
and
we
had
one
bid
and
then
it
went
through
the
whole
process
of
the
procurement
process.
As
far
as
executing
a
contract
which,
again
all
contract
documents,
get
reviewed
through
corporation
council
before
the
actual
contract
is
executed,.
C
And
lisa,
can
you
just
clarify
for
me?
Does
the
because,
in
the
other
trusts
that
I'm
familiar
with
in
the
city
that
are
sort
of
similarly
constituted,
the
trustees
actually
vote
on
the
things
that
the
trust
fund
is
dispersing?
For
so
is
that,
like
are?
Is
a
meeting
of
the
trustees
called
to
approve
that
initial
request
from
you
all,
or
do
they
jump
up?
Do
they
just
disperse
a
certain
amount
of
money
or
or
authorize
you
guys
to
a
certain
amount
of
money?
F
There's
no
meeting
of
the
trustees
counselors,
however,
you
know
it's
it's
based
on
whatever
we
purchase
from
the
trust
is
based
on
what
we
are
allowed
to
purchase
within
the
trust
guidelines.
F
So,
for
example,
it
could
be
anything
that
we
want
to
purchase
a
filing
cabinet.
That's
it's
when
it
enhanced
our
law
enforcement
efforts.
The
purpose
of
the
fund
obviously
was
to
you
know,
receive
an
equitable
share
of
forfeit
assets
that
basically
would
reduce
crime,
because,
obviously
you
take
an
asset.
You
know
property,
real
property
money
from
you
know
white-collar
crime,
drug
dealers,
and
that
was
the
purpose
of
it.
F
That
would
enhance
our
policing
methods,
but
also
too,
it
can't
be
supplement,
supplemented
with
our
operating
budget,
but
these
are
like
enhance
our
funds
to
allow
us
to
purchase
goods
such
as
these.
C
Great
so
yeah,
I
think
it
would
be
helpful
for
the
council
to
have.
I
think,
the
trust,
the
both
the
you
know,
the
agreement,
the
actual
trust
docs,
to
understand
the
decision
procedure
there
and
then
the
record
of
the
last
five
years.
I
just
think
that
I
mean,
I
think
the
point
of
the
chairman
and
others
at
the
start.
C
You
know
is
that
I
think
you
know
trust
funds
can
often
be
an
effective
way
of
dealing
with
complicated
funds
and-
and
we
certainly
use
them
all
over
the
city,
but
I
think
that
the
council
wants
to
understand
precisely
because
of
the
relationship
that
it
bears
to
the
operating
budget
into
the
operations
of
the
department,
a
bit
more
from
an
oversight
perspective,
so
looking
forward
to
looking
forward
to
those
documents
thanks.
Madam
chair,
I
think
those
are
my
questions
for
now.
A
Thank
you,
counselor
brock.
Great
line
of
questions
really
do
appreciate
you
digging
in
here.
This
way,
I'm
just
curious
our
counselor
arroyo
before
I
call
you
wanted
to
just
acknowledge
that
counselor
lara
district
six
is
here
as
well
as
counselor,
canada,
tanya
fernandez,
anderson
from
district,
seven
and
our
council
president
at
flynn.
District
two
have
also
joined
us,
so
I
can
have
them
make
some
opening
quick
remarks
and
then
kick
it
over
to
you.
Council
royale.
If
that
works.
B
Hey
thank
you,
madam
chair,
and
thank
you
kenzie
bach,
counselor
bach,
for
those
questions.
You'd
cover
some
of
mine,
but
one
of
my
questions
is:
why
were
civil
asset
forfeiture
funds
used
to
purchase
this
specific
equipment.
A
That
question
is
to
the
administration,
so
lisa
or
from
your
team
would
be
able
to
answer.
G
Well,
so
I
can
tell
you
that
this,
let
me
just
start
off
by
saying
that
this
particular
piece
of
equipment
is
controlled
and
secured
by
the
commander
of
the
special
investigations
unit.
There
is
only
limited
folks
that
have
access
to
this
technology,
this
piece
of
equipment
and
who
can
operate
this
piece
of
equipment.
G
Basically,
as
you'll
see
from
the
record
set,
we
provided
this
technology
was
deployed,
I
would
say
106
times
in
the
past
six
years
now,
70
was
under
court
order
and
36,
I
believe,
was
under
circumstances
in
many
of
those
instances.
This
technology
saved
lives,
it
averted
harm
trauma
to
the
community,
and
it's
also
helped
us
apprehend
violent
offenders,
so
the
technology
was
purchased.
G
B
So
let
me
be
more
clear
and
I
appreciate
you
going
into
you-
know
it's
weird
and
controlled
and
how
it's
used,
but
I
I
meant
specifically,
why
were
civil
asset
forfeiture
funds
used
to
purchase
this
equipment?
Why
was
the
decision
made
whose
civil
asset
forfeiture
funds
purchased?
This.
F
Well,
it
was
helped
to
defray
costs
or
or
expenditures
that
weren't
included
in
that
operating
budget.
So
this
was
not
an
item
that
was
budgeted
in
our
operating
budget.
For
example,
I
want
to
say
last
year
we
purchased
five
convenience
through
the
equitable
shared
trust
that
we
did
not
have
the
available
operating
funds
in
our
budget
and
those
bands
were
used
to
help
police
get
from
one
side
side
of
the
city
to
another
during
any
kind
of
protest
or
public
gatherings
where
they
were
needed.
B
And
so
as
a
sort
of
follow-up
question
to
that,
is
this
to
everybody
present?
Is
this
the
only
instance
of
use
of
civil
asset
forfeiture
funds
to
purchase
surveillance
equipment
you
are
aware
of,
and
if
it
is
not
what
other
surveillance
equipment
was
purchased
using
civil
asset
forfeiture
funds
and
when.
F
As
as,
as
far
as
I
know,
counselor,
this
is
the
only
purchase
that
I've
been
here
that
we've
used
those
funds
for
surveillance
equipment.
However,
as
council
bach
has
requested,
I
would
like
the
opportunity
to
review
the
general
electric
going
back
to
the
last
five
years
to
confirm
that,
but
in
my
time
here
as
the
finance
director
and
the
cfo
and
now
as
bureau
chief,
this
was
the
only
time
that
I
I
was
involved
in
the
use
of
the
funds
purchasing
surveillance
equipment.
B
B
Thank
you.
I
appreciate
that
as
well.
Thank
you
for
your
service
in
terms
of
the
oversight.
Is
there
any
oversight
or
audit
conducted
by
the
city
on
purchases
made
with
civil
asset
forfeiture.
F
Well,
I
think
the
I
wouldn't
necessarily
say
an
audit,
but
I
can
tell
you
right
now
that
the
treasury
is
pretty
strict
with
anything
that
we
put
through
any
of
these
trust
funds.
F
However,
we
are
required
to
file
both
federally
in
state
all
the
ins
and
outs
of
of
the
the
fund
and
funds
that
we
currently
have,
and
I
think,
whoever
you
know,
the
federal
government
could
come
in
any
time
and
say
we're
going
to
do
an
audit
of
those
purchases,
but
that's
basically
what
we're
required
to
do
under
the
federal
law.
Here
with
this,
this
forfeiture
trust
fund,
and
we
have
all
the
that
we
had
that
show
the
ins
and
outs
and
what
were
required
to
file
according
to
the
agreement.
B
Has
the
federal
government
ever
done
that
have
they
ever
come
in
and
said,
look
over
and
audit
anything.
F
Not
that
I'm
aware
at
my
time
here
I
don't
know
if
they've
ever
come
into
treasury
department,
because
they
are
the
custodian
of
the
the
actual
funds.
So
I
can't
answer
but
and
the
time
that
I've
been
here
last
time
the
feds
were
in
here
was
basically
to
oversee
that
the
use
of
a
few
of
our
grants
to
make
sure
that
we
were
compliant
with
the
grants,
but
not
the
trust
fund.
B
And
then,
in
terms
of
you,
said
the
treasury
department's
pretty
strict
in
terms
of
restrictions,
can
you
just
list
out
or
is
it?
Is
there
a
way
for
you
to
list
out
or
get
to
us
sort
of
what
the
requirements
and
restrictions
are
that
they
impose.
F
Well,
they
they're
gonna.
They
actually
hold
the
trust
itself
and
have
the
agreement
and
that
their
trust
fund,
and
they
basically
would
look
at
what
we're
procuring
to
make
sure
that
it's
it's
within
the
guidelines
of
the
grant.
There
have
been
times
when
I
first
started
here.
It
was
another
trust
fund
that
we
had.
We
tried
to
make
a
procurement
for
the
children's
festival
that
was
voted
on
the
north
end
and
the
treasurer
at
the
time
kicked
it
right
back
saying
this
fund
is
only
for
for
police
sponsored
events.
F
You
can't
fund
forget
what
they
were
looking
to
fund
at
the
time
at
the
north
end's
children's
festival,
and
she
kicked
it
right
back
so
I
mean
they
are.
They
are
pretty
stringent
at
making
sure
that
we
are
making
sure
that
we're
in
the
you
know
the
guidelines
of
the
fund.
B
B
And
the
state
one
is
essentially
so,
for
instance,
just
to
make
sure
that
everybody's
on
the
same
page
federally.
That
means
that
the
federal
cases
whatever
seized
in
federal
cases
goes
into
the
federal
fund,
state
and
local
cases.
Asset
forfeitures
there
would
go
into
the
state
fund.
Is
that
how
it
works?.
B
And
so
so
specifically,
this
purchase
was
made
using
the
federal
pot.
Yes,
and
can
we
get
a
listing?
I
know
that
councillor
bach
asked
for
one
for
sort
of
asset
forfeiture,
I'm
assuming
the
federal
side
of
it.
Can
we
get
the
same
sort
of
listing
of
annual
spending
and
what
it's
being
spent
on
for
the
state
for
the
state
city
side,
of
course,
and
when,
in
terms
of
the
funds
that
we're
talking
about,
is
there
any
noticeable
difference
in
the
size
of
those
pots.
F
This
this
part
grew
considerably
back
two
three
years
ago
as
a
result,
and
you
can
speak
to
it
was
it
was
related
to.
G
A
drug
industry,
several
joint
investigations
that
had
occurred
with
multiple
partners,
so
that
fund
definitely
grew
larger
than
the
the
the
other
fund
that
we're
just
speaking
of
substantially.
B
And
so
that,
but
in
terms
of
so
that's
good
to
know,
but
in
terms
of
on
a
in
an
annual
year
where
maybe
there
isn't
something
like
that
happening
are
new
pots,
basically
the
same
size
or
is
there
always
going
to
be
a
large
side
on
the
federal
side
than
the
state
side?.
F
No
actually
to
be
honest
with
you
in
in
the
ten
years
that
I've
I've
been
here
this,
this
trust
fund
has
always
stayed
around
anywhere
between
180
000
and
200.
000,
again,
like
superintendent
column,
had
said
that
it
was
a
result
of
a.
F
Investigation
and
that's
what
allowed
us
to
purchase
some
items
that
we
could
norm
normally
not
be
able
to
purchase
through
our
operating
budget,
so
it
helped
enhance
our
operating
budget
for
purchases
that
we
needed
all
goods
that
we
needed
outside
of
our
operating
budget.
B
And
then,
this
is
obviously
in
terms
of
the
amount
bpd
and
you
were
very
clear.
The
the
money
is
not
determined
by
bpd,
but
instead
it's
the
the
ada
and
the
prosecution
in
terms
of
the
federal
money
in
terms
of
what
that
amount
is
that
goes
into
that
fund
and
that
the
fund
has
an
equity
trust.
Is
that
essentially
how
that
works?
G
Again
that
that
is
shared
with
multiple
partners
as
well,
which
would
be
the
district
attorney's
office
or
what?
Whichever
prosecutor,
which
government
offices
are
handling
the
prosecution.
But
I
know
we
get
a
portion
of
a
portion
of
it
as
well
as
the
the
the
district
attorney's
office
or
the
united
states,
attorney's
office
or
attorney
general's
office.
B
And
in
terms
of
the
holding
of
those
funds,
I
know
on
the
federal
side
that
it
goes
into
a
trust
on
the
state
side.
Does
that
go
into
a
trust
or
does
bpd
hold
those.
B
B
Thank
you
thank
you
and
that's
it.
I
don't
want
to
take
up
too
much
time
from
the
rest
of
them
and
I
appreciate
you
know
normally,
sometimes
I'm
being
around
trying
to
just
get
answers.
I
appreciate
that
everybody
was
very
to
the
point
very,
very
good
and
thorough
with
their
answers.
So
thank
you.
A
Thank
you.
Those
were
really
great.
Questions
really
do
appreciate.
I'm
gonna
have
my
counselors,
who
recently
joined
to
ask
their
questions
and
do
their
opening
remarks.
When
we
call
on
you
up
next
and
just
so
that
you
know
who's
on
deck,
we
have
counselor
flaherty
at
large
council
louisiana,
followed
by
council
lydia
edwards
of
district
one,
then
we'll
have
counselor
lada,
d6
counselor,
hernandez
anderson,
d7
and
counselor
council
president
flynn
district
2.,
so
come
for
flaherty.
D
Thank
you,
madam
chair
director.
O'brien.
Was
this
a
one-time
purchase
and
will
the
department
be
seeking
additional
funding
down
the
road
from
the
operating
budget
in
fiscal
years
to
whether
it's
to
upgrade
this
technology
or
to
acquire
similar
technologies.
F
Not
that
I'm
aware
of
council
at
this
time
I
mean,
if
anything,
comes
out
of
the
operating
budget
for
this
piece
of
surveillance
equipment,
and
I
would
have
to
confirm
that
would
be
any
kind
of
annual
maintenance
service
agreement
that
it
requires.
But
I
I
have
not
seen
one
come
across
my
desk
since
the
procurement
in
2019.
D
Very
good
and
then
do
we
know
what
other
cities
have
this
technology.
H
D
And
then,
as
sort
of
part
of
like
that,
I
guess
mutual
aid.
Are
we
asked
from
time
to
time
to
share
it
with
other
neighboring
departments
and
or
cities
across
the
commonwealth.
G
We're
asked
to
assist
in
the
investigation
and
by
sharing
yes,
it's
with
us.
You
know
us
operating
the
the
equipment,
but
we
do.
We
have
helped
neighboring
towns
and
cities.
D
And
when
you
say
what
happened
so
are
these?
Are
these
these
human
trafficking
cases?
Are
these
kidnapping
cases
or
these
rapes
and
sexual
assaults
missing
questions?
What
can
you
give
me?
An
idea
is
that
you
indicate
there
was
106
incidents
since
2017.
Can
you
give
us
a
snapshot
of
how
this
technology
was
used
and
how
it
helped
with
public
safety.
G
Absolutely
so,
back
in
january,
I
believe
15
20.
We
were
asked
to
assist
the
human
trafficking
unit
with
the
human
trafficking
investigation
after
ensuring
that
it
fell
under
the
parameters
of
a
circumstance.
G
We
deployed
the
the
equipment,
the
device,
the
equipment
was
able
to
locate
that
device
and
we
were
able
to
rescue
a
victim.
In
addition
to
that
further
investigation,
it
led
to
the
recovery
of
two
other
to
the
rescue
of
two
other
victims
of
human
trafficking,
and
that
was
in
20
in
december
23rd.
I
believe
about
20.
G
We
assisted
as
a
matter
of
fact,
we
assisted
the
invest
in
an
investigation
relative
to
an
individual
made,
a
threat
to
mayor
walsh's
life,
as
well
as
to
making
threats
to.
I
believe
it
was
the
gas
city
hall.
Again
we
found
the
threat
to
be
credible,
exits
and
circumstances.
G
The
machine
was
deployed,
the
technology
was
deployed,
the
device,
the
the
individual
who
made
the
threats
that
device
was,
the
device
of
interest
was
located
and
it
was
located
out
this
outside
the
city
of
boston
and
the
individual
was
located
as
well,
and
that
was
also
handled
through
the
courts,
and
I
believe
we
also
had
an
investigation
in
with
the
one
of
the
more
recent
ones
was
assisting
the
you
file
a
strike
force
with
a
suicidal
individual.
Again,
that's
a
person
in
need
immediate
agency.
G
That
device
was
deployed.
We
were
able
to
locate
that
individual
and
get
him
the
help
that
he
needed
and
again
that
was
able
to
locate
that
device
which
led
us
to
that
individual
and
we
were
able
to
seek
him
the
help
that
was
much
needed.
D
Wow
well
one.
Obviously
it's
clearly
paid
for
itself
with
one
one
incident
and
one
life
saved
is,
is
well
worth
it.
You
guys
have
talked
about
the
number
here,
the
the
650,
and
it
was
a
collaborative
effort
and
a
sort
of
a
multi-agency
effort.
Can
you
talk
about?
What
was
it
was?
Did
we
seize
fentanyl?
Was
it?
Was
it
a
heroin
bust?
Was
it?
Was
it
a
human
trafficking
bust?
What
was
it
that
led
to
the
seizure
and
the
city
getting
650
grand.
H
The
council
of
those
those
cases
were
predominantly
federal
cases
targeting
drug
trafficking
organizations
and,
when
I
say,
drug
trafficking
organizations,
if
those
organizations
are
trafficking,
large
amounts
of
drugs,
fentanyl
heroin,
cocaine
into
boston
and
surrounding
communities
and
that's
what
they
targeted,
not
there's.
No
no
street
level,
dealers
there's
no
mid-level
man.
These
are
these
are
the
top
guys
bringing
you
know
that
poison
into
the
city.
D
H
D
D
Very
good,
and
then,
as
far
as
upgrades
so
that
clearly
the
cell,
the
cell
site
simulator,
is
something
that
has
worked
in
saving
lives
and
keeping
our
city
and
neighboring
communities
of
massachusetts
safe,
like
all
technology
technology
will
need
upgrades
or
at
some
point
it
may
come
obsolete
or
those
that
are
hell-bent
on
you
know,
purveying
poison
will
try
to
sort
of
outsmart
the
system.
I
guess,
are
we
prepared
to
make
those
enhancements
and
if
so,
will
that
be
coming
through
the
operating
budget
in
in
future
fiscal
years?.
G
So
again
we're
cognizant
of-
and
I
do
agree
council
of
this-
you
know
technology,
you
know
it.
It
turns
over
fast.
It's
quick
and
units
become
obsolete.
Yes,
we,
this
is
a
a
significant
purchase,
but
again,
as
I
alluded
to
before,
what's
what
it's
helped
us
to
do-
save
lives.
We
just
can't
put
a
price
on
that,
so
we
do
have
to
prepare
ourselves
to
stay
with
the
enhancements
and
the
upgrades
of
the
technology
of
not
trying
to
to
replace
that
technology.
G
But
we
are
cognizant
of
the
surveillance
ordinance
and
we're
cognizant
that
we're
going
to
have
to
provide
policies
for
certain
technologies
and-
and
we
know
that
any
purchases
will
be
governed
by
the
council,
and
we
look
forward
to
working
collaboratively
collaboratively
with
the
council
on
on
these
issues
and
hopefully
maintaining
technology
that
save
lives.
D
Very
good,
I
thank
you
for
the
work
that
you
do
and,
and
hopefully
we
can
continue
to
give
you
the
tools,
the
resources
and
the
technology
you
need
to
to
keep
us
safe
and
want
to
thank,
obviously,
the
boston
police
department,
working
with
council
president
flynn
and
myself,
as
well
as
mayor
wu's
office,
with
identifying
and
removing
a
hate
group
that
came
to
town
over
the
weekend,
so
great
work
by
your
team
and
look
forward
to
working
with
you
in
in
in
the
months
in
the
years
ahead.
E
Thank
you,
madam
chair.
Thank
you
to
superintendent,
colon
and
other
members
of
the
bpd
for
responses,
just
a
more
direct
question
on
decision
making
here.
Why
wasn't
this
part
of
a
request
as
part
of
the
operating
budget
if
it
has
become,
as
you
say,
such
an
essential
part
of
the
work.
F
At
the
time
it
wasn't,
the
operating
budget
at
the
time
was
presented
to
city
council
in
the
spring
of
2019.
I
was
not
made
aware
or
was
asked
about
this
purchase.
I
don't
know
if
funds
became
available
after
our
budget
was
presented,
but
in
september
of
2019
is
when
we
started
the
procurement
process.
It
wasn't
intentionally
left
left
out
of
the
budget
by
any
shape
or
format.
F
I
just
really
think
that
it
was
a
purchase
that
they
decided
the
equipment
that
they
currently
have
is
outdated
and
that
they
we
did
have
available
funds
to
to
purchase
this
through
the
equitable
sharing
trust
fund.
So
it
it
wasn't
left
unintentionally,
things.
Discussions
didn't
happen
until
august
when
I
first
met
with
lieutenant
colony
and
another
sergeant
at
the
time
that
was
looking
to
upgrade
the
existing
equipment
that
they
currently
have.
E
F
Well,
the
trust
is
to
help
to
phrase
some
of
the
costs
that
we
might
not
be
able
to
include
in
our
operating
budget
that
we
can
supplant
in
our
operating
budget
and
just
as
far
as
the
operating
budget
process
goes,
you
know
it
is
a
pretty
lengthy
process
where
we
first
submit
what
what
obm
likes
to
refer
to
as
the
maintenance
budget.
So
what
do
we
need
to
sustain
just
day-to-day
operations?
F
So
many
of
the
increases
that
you
might
see
in
our
maintenance
budget
are
those
increases
for
making
service
agreements,
legal
fees
that
might
increase
three
to
five
percent
every
year,
based
on
inflation,
any
type
of
new
initiative,
a
new
investment
that
we,
where
we're
asking
to
purchase
through
the
operating
budget
gets
presented
to
to
the
office
of
budget
management.
Questions
are
asked,
go
back
and
forth.
F
What
are
we
buying
this,
for
we
provide
a
lengthy
description
on
what
the
purchase
is,
what
the
investment
and
and
that's,
how
it's
presented
at
the
time
it
wasn't
presented
during
that
budget
process,
because
at
the
time,
I
don't
think
we
had
a
conversation
about
what
was
needed
or
what
what
was
needed
to
upgrade
the
existing
equipment
that
special
investigations
had.
E
Okay-
and
you
mentioned
that,
in
addition
to
southside
stimulator,
there
were
some
bands
that
were
purchased
using.
The
trust.
Do
you
know?
Are
there
other
items
that
you
know
that
were
used
where
we
use
the
trust
to
go
through
those
items.
F
We
we
purchased
some
motor
vehicles
to
add
to
our
existing
fleet
with
the
trust.
You
know
that
obm's
very
generous
with
their
lease
purchase
program
every
year,
which
allows
us
to
replace
the
vehicles
that
we
currently
have
in
our
fleet.
F
We
were
purchasing
what
we
call
motor
vehicles
from
auctions
and
we
were
spending
more
on
repairing
them
and
servicing
them,
because
they
were
very
old
motor
vehicles
that
our
fleet
directors
suggested
that
we
buy
new
vehicles
because
it
was
under
warranty
and
our
mckinnon
support
certified
and
we
actually
get
our
warranty
monies
back
from
ford.
If
we
do
the
work
inside
in-house,
it
just
was
a
better
frugal
decision
on
behalf
of
the
police
department,
to
use
the
trust
fund
at
the
time
to
purchase
vehicles
that
were
needed
for
various
units
within
the
department.
E
Okay,
thank
you.
I
look
forward
to,
I
think.
Counselor
brock
is
only
requested
sort
of
like
a
five-year
review
of
what's
been
purchased
on
the
truck.
So
I
look
forward
to
reviewing
that
and
I
have
one
other
question,
and
this
is
just
a
basic
question
about
whether
you
can
walk
us
through
how
an
asset
is
obtained
in
an
investigation.
How
that
asset
turns
into
money
like
you
know,
for
example,
a
car
or
you
know
what
happens
when
a
car
is
seized
or
when
weapons
are
seized,
but.
F
I
think,
as
as
as
indicated
before,
it
goes
to
auction
and
then
the
proceeds
is
distributed
accordingly
by
the
federal
government.
Federal
government
will
distribute
to
the
participating
agencies
that
were
in
that
investigation,
based
on
manpower.
How
many
in
power?
How
how
much
of
a
significant
contribution
they
made
to
the
investigation
determines
the
amount
of
funds
that
are
distributed
to
each
agency
that
participated
in
the
investigation
and
how
many
hours
worked
on
that
investigation.
So
it's
it's.
F
A
You
boys,
thank
you,
council,
illusion,
I'm
gonna
just
keep
it
moving.
I
haven't
been
doing
the
time
yet,
but
I'm
gonna
start
timing.
Everyone,
so
I
wanna
make
sure
that
we
have
time
for
our
our
second
panel
so
and
I'm
also
hoping
that
the
communication-
I'm
I'm
hearing
some
feedback.
So
I
don't
know
what
that
also
you're,
not
hearing
it,
but
I'm
hoping
the
administration
will
be
able
to
stay
and,
if
not,
you
know
we'll
be
following
up
with
some
additional
things
that
we
still
want
to
gather
here.
K
Thank
you
very
much
sorry
about
that
delay.
I
appreciate
all
of
my
colleagues
incredible
questions
and
I
want
to
thank
them
for
the
specifics
concerning
the
asset
forfeiture
and
specifically
the
funding.
A
lot
of
what
I
had
questions
about
is
are
asked.
So
can
I
just
I
guess,
get
some
commitments
if
you
will
from
the
participants
from
the
bpd.
First
of
all,
thank
you
again
for
your
service
and
what
you've
been
doing
to
help
keep
us
safe.
K
I
just
I'm
curious
if
we
could
set
up
a
process
where
maybe
there's
an
orientation
and
understanding
about
how
the
annual
funds
that
come
in
for
forfeiture
are
presented.
If
there's
ever,
are
you
open
to,
or
is
it
possible
to
have
a
community
process
for
its
actual
distribution
and
if
any
of
that
funding
could
be
prioritized
in
healing
and
alternatives
to
9-1-1
spaces
before
there's
a
decision
to
procure
surveillance
or
any
other
technology.
F
Of
course
we
could.
I
just
want
to
point
out
that
it's
specific
some
of
these
purchases
are
specific
to
the
boston
police
department
as
far
as,
but
it's
very
specific
on
what
we
can
can't
what
we
can
and
can't
use
the
funds
for.
So
as
long
as
we
fall
within
the
guidelines
of
the
trust,
absolutely
that
I'm
open
for
that.
K
Yes,
I
would
really
like
to
see
how
then
we
can
design
that
program.
I
think
it's
a
bridge
building
opportunity
and
if
the
auctions
and
funds
are
there,
that
we're
able
to
sit
down
and
talk
about
how
some
of
this
money
can
be
used
for
stealing
some,
if
necessary,
for
some
regrets,
but,
more
importantly,
for
what
we're
procuring
and
already
successful
community.
K
Events
or
youth
programs-
so
I
don't
know
if
I'll
be
long
enough
here
on
the
city
to
hold
you
to
that.
But
I
do
I
do
appreciate
the
fact
that
you're
open
to
it-
and
I
do
hope
that
you
will
be
open
to
a
further
conversation
about
that
community
process
and.
K
F
Can
be
used
to
support
community
organizations,
community-based
organizations.
F
K
K
Excellent,
so
then,
I
think
it
would
be
great
for
us,
as
a
council
and
my
colleagues
to
consider
a
process
for
that
communication
and
that
conversation
to
happen.
I
think
it's
a
wonderful
bridge,
building
opportunity,
councilor
mejia.
Most
of
my
questions
that
I
had
were
already
asked
by
the
previous,
my
colleagues
and
previous
students,
but
thank
you.
A
Thank
you,
counselor
edwards,
and
I
really
do
want
to
second
and
echo
on
ditto
your
comments
in
terms
of
how
those
dollars
are
are
used,
and
I
I
absolutely
was
going
to
talk
just
about
that.
So
I'm
glad
that
you
took
the
lead
on
that
and
trust
that
I'd
love
to
lean
in
on
the
council
in
regards
to
that.
So
yes,
I'm
gonna
move
on
to
counselor
lada
from
district
c
six.
You
now
have
the
floor.
L
Thank
you,
madam
chair
and
good
morning
to
everyone.
My
apologies
that
I
arrived
a
a
little
late
and
will
probably
be
having
to
jump
off
early
for
a
previous
scheduled
meeting.
Thank
you
all,
I'm
hoping
that
my
questions
are
not
repetitive,
because
I
missed
probably
maybe
the
first
30
minutes,
so
I
hope
that
what
I'm
asking
hasn't
already
been
asked.
So
thank
you
all
for
being
here
and
for
your
answers
to
our
questions.
L
Can
you
let
me
know
how
do
you
decide
when
an
item
is
seized
or
when
an
item
is
not?
What
does
that
decision
entail.
H
G
It's
a
joint
investigation,
so
let's
say:
if
we're
doing
it
with
our
federal
partners
or
other
local
partners,
there
would
be
you
know,
items
that
would
that
would
be
seas
would
be
vehicles
again,
as
sergeant
bowman
alluded
to
earlier
real
estate
and
again,
this
is
all
it
would
be
in
guidance
with
as
well.
You
know
we
again,
we
do
the
initial.
G
G
So
that's
we
would
determine
okay,
it
would
definitely
would
be
vehicles,
things
of
value,
vehicle,
real
estate
and
I've
seen
as
some
as
jewelry
high-end
jewelry.
L
H
Of
the
illicit
act
or
or
items
that
facilitate
the
the
act,
the
crime,
those
will
identify
procedure
and
those
are
after
review
by
the
prosecutor,
make
sure
there's
sufficient
probable
cause
for
that.
L
J
H
There's
different,
there's
there's
different
ways
of
that.
Sometimes,
before
they're
found
guilty
of
the
crime,
they
don't,
they
can't
sign
a
waiver
and
waive
their
rights
to
a
seizure.
So
it
depends.
I
L
H
On
the
the
prosecution.
L
H
G
Again,
that
is,
that
is
handled
by
the
the
prosecutors
and
that
that's
a
judicial
process
that
they
go
in
front
of
a
judge
and
request
those
assets.
But
we
we
we've
been
testifying
those
in
those
hearings,
but
that
is
handled
by
the
prosecutor.
L
Okay,
so
it
sounds
like
so.
It
sounds
like
there
is
a
possibility
that
one
you're
forfeiting
assets
from
folks
with
enough
probable
cause
that
there's
been
a
crime
committed.
But
people
don't
have
to
be
found
guilty
of
a
crime,
and
there
is
what
I'm
assuming
is
a
long
bureaucratic,
costly
process
to
get
their
belongings
back
and
by
which
that
time
they
could
have
already
been
sold
off
to
auction
and
the
benefits
and
the
proceeds
been
used.
G
Yes,
if
they,
if
they
go
through
the
appeals
process
but
yeah
again,
it
is
a
lengthy
process
and
I
have
seen
people
receive
items
that
have
been
forfeited,
they've
gotten
them
back,
but
it's
not
necessarily
true
that
that
they
it's
completely
gone
and
they
have
no
access
to
it.
I
have
no
access
to
it.
L
G
L
No,
so
I
was
saying
that
that's
perfectly
fine,
you
don't
need
to
you,
don't
need
to
have
an
answer
at
this
very
moment.
I
would.
I
would
love
clarity
on
the
process
and
I
think
you
might
also
not
have
the
answer
to
the
question.
But
do
you
know
the
dollar
amount
of
assets
that
have
been
forfeited
from
people
who
were
not
convicted
of
a
crime,
and
so
do
you
follow
at
all?
When
you
forfeit
an
asset?
F
I'm
sure
that's
maintained
by
on
the
on
the
federal
level.
It's
not
maintained
on
our
level,
because
it's
the
federal
government
or
the
federal
agency
that
we're,
where
we're
participating
in
a
particular
investigation
which
determines
how
those
funds
are
allocated
and
what
agencies
will
be
allocated,
funds
from
whatever
property
that
was
seized,
auctioned
off
and
what
proceeds
were
received
as
a
result
of
the
auction.
But
it's
a
determination
based
on
the
federal
government
or
the
federal
agency
that
we're
working
with
at
the
time.
F
L
And
in
the
hearing
order
it
talked
about,
you
were
talking
about
religious
circumstances
earlier
on
and
in
the
hearing
order,
it
said
that
since
2017
there's
been
around
41
accident
circumstances
that
have
called
for
the
use
of
this
technology
and
have
not
required
a
warrant.
G
We
do
and
it's
actually
36
and
we
did
provide
them
to
the
city
council,
beautiful.
L
I
think
that
I'm
done.
I
would
like
to
formally
request
those
36
instances
and
clarity
on
the
process
for
people
to
proclaim
their
assets
and
if
there's
a
dollar
amount
attached
to
people
who
have
not
been
convicted
of
a
crime
whose
assets
have
been
have
been
taken
by
the
police
department.
F
The
use
of
the
the
simulator
and
the
amount
of
times
it
was
used
was
provided
in
the
council,
patrick
that
was
handed
over
to
the
city
council
last
night
yesterday
afternoon.
So
you
should.
G
L
A
Thank
you
counselor.
I
know
folks
are
probably
usually
five
to
seven
to
five
minutes,
but
I
think
that
my
colleague
helped
some
really
great
questions
and
I
really
do
appreciate
it.
So
I
thank
you
for
your
grace
as
we
allow
the
questions
to
continue
to
come
in.
I'm
gonna
go
next
to
council
president
ed
flynn,
and
I
just
want
to
note
that
counselor
tanya
fernandez.
A
M
Thank
you.
Thank
you,
madam
chair,
and
thank
you
to
the
panel
for
being
here
for
the
important
work
that
you're
doing
in
the
city.
So
I
I
have
a
couple
of
questions
and
just
want
to
follow
up
on.
Maybe
a
couple
of
questions
that
some
of
my
colleagues
asked
already
with
this
surveillance
that
you
have.
How
can
you
give
us
a
couple
of
examples,
so
we
have
a
better
idea
of
it.
G
Absolutely
as
the
the
first
example
that
I
spoke
about
earlier
was
a
a
victim
of
human
trafficking.
This
particular
cell
simulator
was
able
to
track
a
device
that
was
attached
to
this
victim.
We
were
able
to
find
and
rescue
this
victim
and
provide
our
help
provider
services
to
recovery
for
recovery.
But
in
addition
to
that.
G
G
I,
I
don't
believe
I
I
believe
you
know
time
was
of
the
essence.
I
don't
believe.
No,
I
again
that
is
a
is
it
possible?
Yes,
it
would
have
been
a
lengthier
investigation
and,
as
you
know,
with
human
trafficking,
these
folks
move
they
move
from
city
to
city
and
they
don't
spend
too
much
time
in
certain
areas.
So
we
there
was
a
pos
there's
a
possibility
of
not
of
us
not
being
able
to
recover
that
victim,
so
this
cell
site
simulator.
G
Yes,
it
allowed
us
to
save
this
individual's
lives
as
well
as
well
as
two
other
individuals.
M
G
Yes,
there
are
other
cities
across
the
nation
that
do
have
this
technology.
I
can
say
that
through
limited
research
that
I've
done
the
the
guy,
we
have
guidelines
and
procedures
that
govern
the
way
we
use
this
technology
and,
as
you'll,
see
from
the
documentation
that
we
provided
it's
used
judiciously
and
carefully.
I
can't
speak
to
other
agencies,
but
I
can
speak
to
this
department
that
106
deployments
in
six
years
is.
G
It
shows
that
we
we
do
pay
attention
in
that
we
do
have
strict
policies
that
will
restrict
our
guidelines
as
to
when
we
deploy
this
technology.
But
I
do
I
have
seen
some
limited
through
some
limited
research.
I've
seen
other
cities
and
it's
used
far
more
than
we
than
we
do.
M
G
Yes,
absolutely
again,
one
of
the
one
of
the
ways
that
we
will
use
it
is
through
a
court
order.
You
know
we're
giving
permission
to
a
judge
to
deploy
the
equipment
to-
let's
say
in
an
incident
like
that
would
be
to
a
joint
investigation
where
we're
we
we've
had
joint
investigations
for
drug
trafficking
organizations
where
there's
multiple
targets
upwards
to
more
than
20
targets.
G
That
simulator
will
allow
us
to
locate
the
devices
that
are
that
are
connected
to
those
individuals
who
are
bringing
in
fentanyl
who
are
bringing
in
cocaine
or
bringing
in
heroin
that
land
on
the
streets
of
this
of
this
city
and
our
neighboring
towns,
so
that
would
be
through
a
corridor
and
in
in
an
instance
of
exigence
circumstance.
G
The,
as
I
mentioned
before,
this
device
is
under
the
strict
control
of
the
commander
of
the
special
investigations
unit.
So
when
someone
presents
the
special
investigations
unit
with
a
an
investigation
where
they
believe
it's
edges
and
circumstance,
the
commanders,
the
commander,
as
well
as
their
his
sergeants,
they
get
together,
they
weigh
the
the
information
and
they
see
if,
if
in
fact,
it
falls
under
an
exigent
circumstance,
so
it
has,
it
has
to
be,
let's
say,
a
missing
person
with
complication
that
would
so
that
would
surely
would
fall
under
those
parameters.
G
Once
it's
determined
that
once
he
makes
a
determination
that
there
is
an
existency,
we
then
will
contact
the
cell
phone
carrier
and
then
we
go
through
another
round
of
which
is
another
round
of
security,
another
level
of
security
as
well
as
education.
We
have
to
articulate
what
the
edges
and
circumstances
and
then
and
if
it
falls
within
their
rules
and
their
policy,
that's
when
we
will
be
granted
will
be
furnished
information,
a
unique
identifier,
identifiers
to
a
device.
Those
are
just
numbers:
it's
not
subscriber
information.
G
It's
numbers
to
a
device:
that's
what
we
do.
That's
what
this
cell
cycle
similar
simulator
uses
once
we
satisfy
the
level
of
security
with
the
with
the
cell
carrier.
That's
when
in
in
at
that
point
we
would
be
given
those
those
numbers
and
the
last
location
where
that
device
registered
that
with
the
closest
tower,
we
would
go
into
that
area.
G
We
would
then
deploy
the
the
the
device
and
that
device
starts
to
capture,
and
then
I
I
have
to
stress
this.
It
does
not
capture
any
oral
communication.
It
doesn't
capture
any
communication
such
as
oral.
It
doesn't
capture
any
data
and
it
doesn't
capture
any
emails
nor
gps.
What
it's
capturing
is
identifying
numbers,
unique,
identifying
numbers
to
a
device
and
that's
when
the
we'll
deploy
the
machine
enter
those
those
numbers
and
that's
what
it
starts
to
it'll,
emit
a
signal
that's
more
attractive
than
the
cell
tower
in
it.
G
It
will
start
to
send
signals
to
the
simulator
once
that
connectivity
is
established,
then
we
it'll
start
to
hone
in
to
the
location
of
the
device.
Now,
the
gps,
the
location
of
the
device,
the
closer
we
get,
the
the
the
stronger
the
signal
gets,
but
again
it's
it's
it's
levels
of
it
has
to
first
me
satisfy
the
commander's,
his
his
level
of
expectancy
in
terms
of
an
edges
and
circumstance,
and
and
then,
after
that
we
have
to
go
to
a
second
level
with
the
cell
phone
carrier.
M
M
We
had
a
hate
group
in
boston
over
the
weekend
and
we're
able
to
thank
working
with
the
boston
police,
we're
able
to
escort
them
and
ask
them
to
leave
the
area,
but
I
just
want
to
highlight
that
you
know
we
have
a
lot
of
hate
groups
that
are
in
and
around
greater
boston
in
and
around
massachusetts,
but
they
have
zero
zero
place
in
our
city
and
that's
something
I'm
going
to
continue
to
work
with
city
officials
on
but
again
I
want
to
say
thank
you
to
the
boston
police
for
their
help
over
the
weekend,
working
with
myself
and
council
flaherty
in
in
with
the
mayor.
A
Thank
you.
Thank
you
to
all
my
colleagues.
This
is
the
you
know
as
the
chair
of
this
hearing.
This
is
what
happens
when
you
go
last.
All
the
best
questions
have
already
been
asked
and
answered.
So
I
only
have
a
few
left
and
I'm
gonna
start
my
privilege
as
the
chair,
to
ask
those
questions
now.
So
I'm
just
curious:
how
does
the
boston
police
department
track
returns
on
investments
with
civil
asset
for
our
dollars?
A
More
specifically,
like
what
measures
do
we
track
whether
these
purchases
are
effective?
I
understand
that
you've
provided
an
example
of
the
surveillance
equipment
in
use,
but
what
are
the
metrics
that
we're
using
to
really
track
and
our
return
on
those
investments.
F
I
don't
think
we
actually
do
an
roi
calculation
chia,
but
I
think
that
the
expectation
is
for
us
to
able
to
defray
costs
that
we
might
not
have
been
able
to
have
in
our
operating
budget
and
allow
us
to
do
our
job,
our
job,
better,
doing,
law
enforcement.
You
know
our
efforts,
but
most
of
the
procurement
of
items
that
came
out
of
the
trust
fund
were
basically
for
equipment
that
was
needed.
That
we
did
not
include
or
would
would
not
be
able
to
include
in
our
operating
budget.
F
For
various
reasons
and
again,
the
purchases
that
were
made
over
the
last
couple
years
was
a
result
of
this.
This
investigation
that
struggle
investigation,
because
normally
the
activity
is
not
not
as
great
as
it
was
the
last
couple
years,
but
it
was
because
of
the
the
funding
that
was
made
available
as
a
result
of
a
drug
investigation.
But
I
can
honestly
say,
though,
that
every
procurement
that
is
made
out
of
that
fund
is
within
vast
general
law.
F
There's
it's
no
wiggle
room
for
any
kind
of
circumventing
the
process
because
of
all
the
systems
and
controls
that
are
in
place
with
the
city
of
boston
and
through
the
systems
that
we
use
the
procurement
process.
For
and
again
we
can
also
supply
what
those
purchases
were
made.
The
last
five
years
plus,
we
do
have
to
file
an
annual
report
with
the
federal
government
on
what.
G
But
I
would
add
that
in
particular
to
this
particular
device,
as
you
can
see,
I've
I've
spoke
about
three
incidents.
There
are
many
more
this
the
value
of
this
equipment.
You
can't
put
a
price
on
it
and
we
we
need
to
maintain
equipment
such
as
this
because,
again,
if
it's
going
to
save
a
life,
I'm
worth
it
I'm
for
it
and
it
gets
my
support.
A
G
Again,
we
we
have
guidelines
and
procedures
how
we,
how
this,
what
governs
this,
this
particular
equipment
and
again
we're
cognizant
about
the
surveillance
ordinance
policy.
G
There
are
questions
that
the
rise
relative
to
to
the
retention
of
of
the
data,
and
we
will
make
a
decision
on
that.
But
again
I
have
to.
I
have
to
reiterate
the
data
that
we
have
are
numbers
identify,
unique,
identifying
numbers
to
a
device.
It's
not
to
a
subscriber
information
on
the
subscriber.
It's
not
personal
information.
It's
not
data,
it's
not
oral
communication,
it's
not
gps
information
and
it's
just
identifying
identifiers
to
a
device.
A
G
We
again
we're
working
on
the
policy
for
that
and
ultimately,
the
decision
will
will
be
made
from
the
chief
from
from
from
me
and
the
and
the
individual
that
will
handle.
The
deletion
of
the
of
the
information
would
be
the
commander
of
the
of
the
special
investigations
unit.
G
For
the
deletion
of
the
of
the
data,
no.
A
F
Well,
I
I
think,
on
this
investment
superintendent
colon
talked
about
what
they
return
to.
A
And
how
and
how
and
how
and
how
do
we
make
and
what
is
the
process
in
terms
of
how
we're
connecting
the
number
of
lives
that
we
say?
Could
you
be
really
laser
focused
and
specific,
so
that
our
viewers,
who
are
listening
to
really
understand
the
point
that
you
are
trying
to
drive
home
right.
G
I
I
would
have
to
go
back
and
research
the
cases
I
would
say
I
spoke
of
three
lives
actually
in
the
in
the
examples
I
gave
probably
I
spoke
of
five
lives,
but
removing
an
a
a
violent
individual
from
the
streets
of
boston
from
the
streets
of
from
the
city
of
boston.
G
I
couldn't
tell
you
how
many
lives
that
we
saved
with
that,
but
I
can
tell
you
that
we
did
save
some
lives
and
we
prevented
some
harm
and
and
trauma
in
our
communities
which
we
don't
need.
Anymore
of
so
it's
to
give
you
specific
numbers
of
lives.
I
I
would
have
to
go
back
and
look,
but
I
gave
we.
We
presented
106
incidents
and
there
are
many.
There
are
many
lives
that
we
I'm
sure
that
we
saved.
G
There
are
many
lives
that
we
saved
by
the
investigations
to
that
human
trafficking
investigation.
The
individual
involved
in
that,
how
many
more
lives
would
he
have
harmed
down
the
road
he
or
she
would
have
harmed
down
the
road.
So
again
I
can't
give
you
specifics,
but
I
can
tell
you
that
yes,
we've
we've
averted
a
lot
of
problems,
harm
and
trauma
and
we've
removed
some
violent
individuals
from
the
streets,
so
many
countless
lives.
I
can
that's
the
answer
I
can
give
you
countless
lives.
A
And
I
so
much
appreciate
your
service,
I,
I
guess
the
reason
why
we're
stressing
this
particular
point
is
because
you
know
it
feels
a
little
bit
like
speculation
without
any
metrics
in
this
time
of
data,
informed
policies
and
holding
ourselves
accountable.
It's
really
important
for
us
to
have
some
some
metrics
around
that.
But
let
me
move
on
to
the
other
questions
that
I
have
following
up
on
counselor
flower
question.
A
In
the
last
five
years,
what
non-cash
assets
have
been
seized
by
the
bpd
like
cars,
homes,
etc,
and
do
we
keep
a
record
of
these
assets
and
could
we
receive
a
copy
of
that.
G
I'd
have
to
I
guess
we
can.
We
can
definitely
provide
you
a
copy
of
it.
I
don't.
I
don't
have
the
exact
number
in
my
head
and
again
with
joint
investigations.
G
This
could
be
seized
from
if
we're
assisting
a
a
federal
partner
or
another
state
partner.
They
they
would,
they
would
hold
those
records,
but
yes,
the
assets
would
be
seized,
but
I
guess
we
could
look
into
it
and
get
you
copies
of
what
we
have
been
seized
again
as
long
as
go
ahead.
Man.
A
No,
no,
I
thank
you
for
that.
I
just
I
do
I
do
appreciate.
I
just
think
it's
an
important
point
for
us
to
just
pause
here.
Real
quick,
like
it
would
be
great
for
you
all
to
be
in
constant
communication
right
to
have
access
to
that
information
in
real
time
whenever
you
need
it.
So,
yes,
whenever
you
get
a
copy
of
it,
please
share
it
with
us.
We
would
really
appreciate
that.
A
I
guess
I
have.
This
is
less
of
a
question
and
more
of
a
comment.
You
know
in
the
spirit
of
transparency,
I
think
we
need
to
be
transparent
about
ppd's
history.
When
it
comes
to
the
abuse
of
civil
asset
forfeiture,
I
only
need
to
mention
the
name
of
john
brazil
for
people
who
want
people
to
know
what
I'm
talking
about
this
abuse
goes
back
decades
and
without
a
proper
accountability
and
transparency
process.
We
really
have
no
idea
whether
or
not
the
civil
asset
dollars
are
being
abused
right.
A
So
this
is
why
it's
so
important
for
us
to
dive
in
and
get
an
opportunity
for
my
colleagues
to
ask
questions
and
more
so
important,
for
the
administration
to
come
in
and
and
be
more
of
a
partner
with
us,
so
that
the
questions
that
have
bubbled
up
to
the
top
provide
a
framework
and
some
of
the
things
that
we
need
to
start
doing
a
little
bit
more
of
so
that
we
can
poke
ourselves
through
our
accountable
process.
A
So
I
do
hope
that
you
see
that
in
that,
in
the
spirit
in
which
we're
trying
to
operate
in
and
walk
away
with
some
really
great
ideas
in
terms
of
things
that
we
can
do
differently
moving.
I
do
want
to
just
quickly
my
colleague,
counselor
fernandez,
anderson
wasn't
able
to
say,
but
I
would
like
to
just
put
her
questions
on
the
record
as
well
as
give
us
an
opportunity
to
get
some
answers
before
we
move
on
to
arnold's
panel,
and
this
is
from
counselor
fernandez
anderson
who
represents
d7.
A
Really,
I'm
just
going
to
read
them
off
and
we
can
just
take
it
from
there.
It's
like.
Do
you
get
a
warrant
or
use,
or
do
you
use
this
without
a
warrant?
She's
curious
about
monthly
reporting,
every
time
that
the
device
is
used?
Is
there
some
sort
of
system
or
some
sort
of
dashboard?
A
Does
the
device
record
every
time
it's
turned
on
and
how
long
is
it
turned
on
for
I'm
reporting,
which
is
very
important,
wants
to
know
requiring
police
asking
for
warrants
to
alert
the
judge
of
any
data
that
might
be
intercepted
intercepted
from
people
who
are
not
targeted
of
their
surveillance,
she'd
like
to
know
that
they
would
also
have
to
tell
the
judge
about
any
possible
uses
and
setting
in
which
first
amendment
rights
are
being
exercised.
A
Exceptions
to
getting
the
warrant
curious
about
law
enforcement
would
also
be
allowed
to
use
them
in
emergency
situations
with
the
potential
for
loss
of
life,
but
in
a
warrant
would
need
to
be
obtained
within
48
hours
of
use.
As
you
know,
the
data
would
need
to
be
deleted.
I
guess
the
last
piece-
and
maybe
this
is
a
common
order.
Question
is
law.
Enforcement
could
use
stingrays
in
order
to
prevent
the
detaination
of
a
bomb
from
a
mobile
device.
A
Since
they
can
be
blocked
incoming
calls
on
this
device,
that's
just
more
of
a
comment,
so
I
know
I
said
a
lot
there
guys
lean
into
the
questions
that
you
want
to
address
or
that
you
need
to
address,
as
opposed
as
questions.
A
And
I
can
help
you
if
you
need
some
clarity,
so
I
guess
I'll
just
start
from
a
question
specifically:
does
the
device
record
every
time
it's
turned
on
and
if
so,
how
long
is
it
just
answer
that
one
and
then
I'll,
just
open
the
rest.
H
Yes,
there's
a
record
of
every
time
it's
turned
on
and
the
duration
it's
on.
It
stays
on
as
as
long
as
we
need
to
find.
A
Got
it,
do
you
get
a
warrant
or
no
use
loser
without
a
warrant.
G
Again,
there
are
instances
where
we
use
it
with
a
warrant
that
would
it
will
have
a
warrant,
and
then
there
are
exigent
circumstances
such
as
the
trying
to
locate
a
missing
person
with
complications
trying
to
locate
individuals
suicidal
folks
that
that
might
have
that
are
in
need
of
services,
kidnapping
victims,
so
yeah.
There
are
exigent
circumstances
that
out
that
it
will
use
it
for
so
it's
with
the
warren
and
nexus
and
circumstances.
A
Okay,
great
thank
you
for
that.
I
guess
in
regards
to
the
warrant.
I
guess
the
question
around
this
piece.
Is
you
know
if
you
have
to
obtain
a
warrant
within
48
hours
of
use?
Would
you
then
delete
the
data
once
you
know
the
information
you
that
you
found
no
longer
is
relevant
like
there's,
this
question
is
continuing
to
come
up
around
the
deletion
of
the
data.
G
So
again,
the
data
we
need
to
be
clear
for,
for
the
council's
sake,
is
that
the
data
that
we're
that
is
retained,
it's
a
unique
identifiers
to
a
device.
It
is
not
any
type
of
communication,
any
type
of
oral
communication,
any
type
of
text-
email,
gps,
none
of
that.
It's
just
data
to
a
device.
It's
it's
numeric
numbers
to
a
numbers
to
a
particular
device.
So
just
as
cheese
player
on
that.
A
Okay,
great,
thank
you
for
that,
and
then
the
last
is
in
terms
of
training.
It's
curious
about
whether
or
not
there
is
a
nature
around
privacy
and
civil
liberties
for
those
folks
who
are
interfacing
with
this
appointment.
G
A
G
A
All
right-
and
this
is
not
a
question
from
my
colleague
this
is
a
question
from
me
as
the
chair.
Can
you
tell
me
a
little
bit
about
how
many
folks
make
up
the
small
cohort
of
people
on
what
are
the
qualifications.
G
How
many
folks
make
up
the
cohort
on
the
special
investigations
unit?
There
are
14
individuals,
one
commander,
two
supervisors,
ten
detectives
and
I
believe
one,
a
police
officer.
G
And
culture
15,
I'm
sorry
15
and
yes,
we
have
currently
right.
Now
we
have
one
female
officer
in
that
union.
G
So
years
of
experience
in
investigations,
there's
many
qualifications,
the
ability
to
work
well
with
others,
but
again
there's
many
qualifications,
it's
individuals
who
are
inspired
and
motivated
and
and
well
connected
in
the
community.
So
I
I
just
as
I'm
speaking,
I'm
looking
offices
are
popping
in
my
head
and
these
offices
that
have
worked
in
in
communities
such
as
district,
three
district,
two,
as
you
know,
as
mattapan
roxbury,
and
who
are
still
connected
very
much
connected
in
those
in
those
districts.
A
And
what
type
of
at
least
I
just
wanted
to
thank
for
the
record
that
these
are
my
questions,
I'm
done
with
and
questions
I'm
just
curious
in
terms
of
like.
Has
there
been
in
in
your
experience
and
time
any
any
folks
utilizing
this
equipment
in
ways
that
are
would
not
be
in
terms
of
the
way
it
was
themed
to
initially
like
has
there
been
any?
A
Has
there
been
any
any
times
that
the
department
has
realized
that
you've
always
been
some
abusive
in
terms
of
the
way
this
equipment
was
supposed
to
be
intended
to
be
used.
G
Absolutely
not,
as
you
can
see,
we
keep
strict
documents
as
to
when
this
equipment
is
deployed
and
no
none
that
I
know
of.
Okay,
no.
A
But
you
you
have
you,
have
you
have
record
of
that,
but
you
don't
have
record
of
the
return
on
the
investment
or
or
any
procedures
in
terms
of
how
documents
are
going
to
go.
A
I
just
think
that
it's
really
important
for
us
to
look
at
the
whole
picture
around
accountability
and
transparency,
because
I
think
that
that's
what's
going
to
help
us
move
this
conversation
forward
and
I'm
not
going
to
hold
folks
any
longer
than
what
they
need
to,
but
I
will
thank
multiplex
for
the
questions
and
I
know
we
have
a
second
panel
up
next
and
I
would
say
this
is
that
I
would
strongly
urge
the
administration
to
stick
around
and
listen
to
what
our
second
panel
has
to
say,
and
I
will
now
take
it
over
to
our
second
panel,
starting
with
fatima
ahmed
from
the
the
executive
director
of
the
muslim
justice
league,
to
give
her
remarks
no
more
than
five
minutes
again.
A
Thank
you
to
my
colleagues
for
your
round
of
questions
in
round
one
and
really
do
appreciate
the
administration
first
for
joining
us
this
morning
fatima,
you
now
have
the
floor.
Yes,.
N
Thank
you
so
excited
to
be
part
of
you
know
this
first
hearing
for
this
committee
and
to
talk
about
this
really
important
issue.
I
want
to
be
clear,
particularly
for
counselors
and
for
the
public,
watching
that
we're
really
talking
about
three
significant
issues
here,
so
I'm
going
to
try
to
break
those
down
and
then
cade.
N
My
colleague
is
going
to
be
talking
about
one
of
them
in
depth
when
we,
when
I
say
that
there
are
three
different
issues,
one
we're
talking
about
civil
asset
forfeiture
that
in
and
of
itself,
you
know,
has
a
lot
of
concerns,
and
I
think
a
few
counselors
have
already
you
know
alluded
to
that.
N
Second,
there
is
the
fact
that
bpd
is
bypassing
the
city
council
in
terms
of
purchasing
anything,
not
just
surveillance
equipment
using
these
funds
and
then
third
there's
the
actual
surveillance,
that's
happening
using
the
stingrays
or
other
equipment.
So
I'm
going
to
talk
a
good
bit
about
the
first
two
issues,
but
they're
all
deeply
important
and
all
deserve.
N
You
know
a
good
deal
of
investigation
and
research
and
oversight,
so
in
terms
of
civil
asset
forfeiture.
I
want
to
be
clear
that
you
know,
according
to
a
number
of
sources,
massachusetts
is
the
worst
state
in
terms
of
civil
asset
forfeiture
law
that
is
according
to
the
institute
for
justice,
which
does
a
lot
of
work
on
this.
N
That's
a
direct
quote
from
them
that
were
the
worst
state
on
this,
and
the
nwbur
did
an
investigation
on
this
recently
as
well,
and
also
indicated
that
massachusetts
has
the
lowest
legal
bar
for
civil
asset
forfeiture
and
while
other
states,
and
even
the
supreme
court
have
you
know,
raised
the
bar
for
this
recently.
N
Massachusetts
has
not
moved
on
this,
and
so
we
as
boston,
one
you
know,
should
be
worried
and
embarrassed
that
massachusetts
is
the
worst
state
in
terms
of
this
when,
when
other
folks
have
been,
you
know
seeing
the
issues
with
this
and
we,
as
a
city
at
least,
need
to
raise
the
bar
beyond
probable
cause
for
civil
asset
forfeiture.
N
While
you
know
bpd,
I
think
just
shared
a
few
examples.
Where
they've,
you
know,
you
know,
used
this
equipment
to
save
lives.
Supposedly.
I
also
want
to
be
clear
that
you
know
the
majority
of
cases
that
they
that
they
sent
over
in
their
documents
are
drug
investigations
and
when
we
look
at
civil
asset
forfeiture,
a
lot
of
that
also
tends
to
be
around
drug.
You
know
drug
investigations
and
again
according
to
wbur
and
their
investigations
around
this.
N
These
things
tend
to,
as
we
know,
impact
people
of
color
and
folks
who
are
low
income
and
yes,
as
as
many
people
have
been
asking-
and
I
think
questioning
here,
assets
can
be
seized
from
people
who
have
not
been
convicted
of
a
crime.
They
can
be
held
indefinitely,
even
if
charges
were
dismissed-
and
you
know
the
difficulty
of
the
pro
for
the
process
of
getting
your
assets
back
is
extremely
difficult.
N
So
a
lot
of
folks
are
already
looking
into
this,
and
I
really
hope
that
the
council
looks
further
into
just
the
process
of
civil
asset
forfeiture.
What
we're
talking
about
with
civil
asset
forfeiture
and
with
the
sting
rays
is
both
around
the
fourth
amendment
right.
It's
our
right
to
against
unreasonable,
search
and
seizure.
So
when
we
say
civil
asset
forfeiture
we're
talking
about
potentially
unreasonable
seizure
of
assets,
we're
also
talking
about
with
the
surveillance,
unwarranted,
literally
unwarranted,
as
they've
indicated
examples
of
surveillance.
N
I
think
the
the
one
other
thing
I
will
say
about
civil
asset
forfeiture
is,
and
hopefully
this
is.
This
is
obvious
to
folks,
but
I
hope
I
want
to
make
sure
it's
really
clear
and
obvious
to
have
law
enforcement
be
capable
of
seizing
assets,
and
then
they
are
the
ones
who
get
to
spend
those
assets
and
they
are
the
ones
who
are
deciding
how
that
is,
that
is,
you
know,
quote
unquote
equitably
distributed
between
three
different
law
enforcement
agencies.
N
That
is
right
for
abuse.
As
counselor
may
have
said,
we've
seen
this
kind
of
abuse
already,
and
I
think
there
is
a
lot
more
that
could
be.
That
could
be
uncovered
there,
and
people
should
be
concerned
about
the
fact
that
it
is
law
enforcement,
seizing
the
assets
and
then
law
enforcement
spending
those
assets.
N
The
second
part
that
I
will
you
know
dig
into
a
little
bit
is
the
fact
that
bpd
is
bypassing
city
council
procedures,
city
council
oversight
over
our
budget.
Over
our
finances
over
our
our
spending-
and
I
think
councilor
bach
spoke
to
this
a
little
bit.
N
You
know
I
think,
both
in
terms
of
surveillance,
right,
there's
the
issue
of
them
using
surveillance,
equipment
or
buying
surveillance
equipment,
specifically
without
people
knowing,
and
we
know
that
this
has
happened
a
number
of
times
we're
not
talking
about
the
first
time
right,
I
think
you
know-
hopefully
folks
remember
bpd,
buying
and
using
drones
that
were
like
visibly
seen
in
the
city.
N
We
all
know
about
them
using
social
media
surveillance,
equipment
called
geophysia
and
then
getting
a
lot
of
pushback
when
people
realize
this.
That's
part
of
why,
for
many
years
now,
folks
have
pushed
for
surveillance
oversight
specifically,
so
I'm
glad
that
that
you
know
ordinance
is
going
to
provide
a
little
bit
of
oversight
just
over
surveillance
technology
and
likely
we're
going
to
see
a
lot
come
out
of
that.
N
You
know
later
this
summer,
when,
when
they're
required
to
report
on
that
there
are
other
ways.
I
I
believe
that
bpd
is
able
to
spend
money-
that's
not
actually
visible
to
the
city
council.
N
I
don't
know
for
sure,
because
I'm
not
an
expert
in
this,
and
I
don't
want
to
be
an
expert,
but
I
hope
that
you
all
look
into
this
because
you
know
aside
from
civil
asset
forfeiture,
there
are
non-profits
that
exist
like
the
boston
police
foundation,
which
claim
that
they
are
donating,
not
only
money,
but
you
know
specific
equipment
and
surveillance,
tech
specifically
to
the
boston
police
department,
the
boston
police
foundation.
You
know,
according
to
news
reports,
they
are
the
ones
who
bought
the
89
000
ice
cream
truck
for
bpd.
N
That
many
folks
know
about
they,
also,
according
to
their
website,
have
bought
surveillance,
tech,
at
least
a
hundred
and
seventeen
thousand
dollars
worth
including
two
licensed
plate
readers
and
they
have
put
money
towards
shot
spotter
and
bullet
tracks.
That's
just
what
I
know
from
their
website.
I
have
not
seen
those
kinds
of
purchases
going
through.
N
Where,
if
any
oversight
is
there,
how
can
we
actually
make
sure
that
there
that
there
is
oversight
of
that,
because
it
is
really
worrisome
that
an
external
source
could
just
be
buying
surveillance,
check
for
and
other
things,
plenty
of
other
things
that
they
buy
like
ice
cream
truck,
but
surveillance
tech
in
particular
for
bpd
without
oversight?
O
Thanks
fatima
so
good
morning,
everyone
thank
you
councillor,
mejia,
for
calling
this
really
important
hearing.
My
name
is
kade
crockford.
I
run
the
tech
for
liberty
program
at
the
aclu
of
massachusetts.
O
I
just
want
to
say
one
more
thing
about
asset
forfeiture,
which
is
that
to
directly
answer
answer
counselor
lara's
question:
yes,
the
police
can
and
do
seize
property
in
massachusetts
from
people
not
convicted
of
any
crime.
As
fatima
said,
we
have
the
worst
asset
for
petrol
law
in
the
country,
and
the
legislature,
however,
is
working
on
this
issue
so
senate
bill
2671
is
legislation
that's
currently
before
the
state
senate,
which
would
reform
asset,
forfeiture
procedures
in
massachusetts
and
address
a
lot
of
these
problems
with
the
current
law.
O
So
we
hope
the
legislature
will
bring
that
bill
to
the
floor
and
approve
it
this
session
and
anything
you
counselors
can
do
to
help
make
that
happen
would
be
really
fantastic
so
getting
to
the
stingray.
In
its
letter
to
the
council.
Prior
to
this
hearing,
the
boston
police
department
maintained
that
there
is
no
secrecy
problem
with
respect
to
its
sting,
stingray
acquisition
or
use.
So
I
just
want
to
take
a
step
back
and
contextualize
today's
conversation
with
a
little
bit
of
history.
O
Back
in
2015,
the
bpd
told
a
number
of
people
who
submitted
records,
requests
about
stingrays
that
it
could
not
produce
any
records
regarding
stingray
technology
and
here's.
What
the
department
said
quote.
The
information
you've
requested
is
exempt
from
disclosure
by
state
public
records
law.
Disclosure
of
the
information
contained
in
these
documents
would
not
be
in
the
public
interest
and
would
prejudice
the
possibility
of
effective
law
enforcement.
O
More
specifically,
the
protection
of
such
investigatory
materials
and
reports
is
essential
to
ensure
that
the
department
can
continue
to
effectively
monitor
and
control
criminal
activity
and
thus
protect
the
safety
of
private
citizens.
So,
after
fighting
the
request,
the
department
finally
turned
over
one
document
to
these
requesters
and
what
was
that
it
was
a
non-disclosure
agreement
that
the
boston
police
department
had
signed
with
the
fbi.
This
is
a
very
interesting
and
important
document.
It
says
the
boston
police
department
will
coordinate
with
the
fbi
about
public
records
requests
related
to
stingray
equipment.
O
It
also
says
that
the
boston
police
department
should
drop
criminal
cases
instead
of
hand
over
information
to
defense
attorneys
about
the
use
of
stingrays
in
criminal
investigations.
So
this
document
was
signed
by
former
boston
police
commissioner,
ed
davis
in
2013
it's
available
online.
I
can
send
it
to
anyone
who's
interested
in
seeing
it
that's
a
lot
of
secrecy
later
on
after
the
cat
was
well
out
of
the
bag
on
the
boston
police.
O
This
mind
you
was
after
police
officials
assured
the
public
that
the
device
was
only
used
subject
to
a
warrant
or
in
emergencies.
Well,
that
turned
out
not
to
be
true.
The
documents
that
we
got
from
the
boston
police
department
showed
that
in
fact,
they
had
never
once
obtained
a
warrant
to
use
this
device.
This
was
in
2016.
O
now
the
decision
about
whether
to
or
not
to
obtain
a
warrant
is
no
longer
a
policy
choice
at
the
boston
police
department.
I
just
want
to
be
really
clear
about
that.
In
2019,
the
supreme
judicial
court,
in
a
case
called
commonwealth
v
almanor,
ruled
that
the
police
must
obtain
a
warrant
in
order
to
use
this
device.
So
it
is
no
longer
a
choice
in
exigent
circumstances.
They
don't
have
to
get
a
warrant,
but
the
sjc
has
said
that
in
investigations
they
do
so
now,
let's
focus
on
so
anyway.
O
You
know
that
kind
of
that
provides
a
different
perspective.
I
think,
on
the
question
of
secrecy
surrounding
this
technology,
we
now
learn
that
bpd
has
spent
627
thousand
dollars
of
asset
forfeiture
funds,
buying
new
cell
site
simulator
equipment
and
claims
that
it
did
so
transparently,
but
there's
absolutely
nothing
transparent
about
how
this
has
gone
down.
The
bpd
knows
this
is
controversial
technology.
It
has
been
the
subject
of
media
reporting,
civil
rights
organization
investigations
and
criticism,
and
numerous
public
records
requests
for
nearly
a
decade.
O
Despite
this,
and
despite
the
fact
that
the
city
council
was
deliberating
over
an
ordinance
that
would
require
the
police
to
bring
surveillance
technologies
like
this
before
them
for
approval
at
the
very
time
that
the
department
was
procuring
it,
the
department
did
not
notify
the
council,
nor
did
it
provide
any
documentation
to
the
council
or
the
public
about
how
the
technology
would
be
used,
including
by
providing
a
policy
which
I
just
want
to
say
still
has
not
happened.
So
I
want
to
be
clear.
We
would
not
be
here.
O
We
would
not
know
about
the
boston
police
department's
use
of
forfeiture
funds
to
buy
this
technology
if
it
weren't
for
the
hard
work
of
investigative
reporters
now
that
shannon
dooling,
namely
at
wbur,
has
published
information
about
the
bpd's
purchase
of
this
technology,
and
now,
thanks
to
the
council,
your
leadership
chair,
mejia
that
you've
called
this
hearing.
The
boston
police
department
has
produced
some
basic
information
about
the
use
of
the
stingrays,
but
there's
a
lot
that
we
still
don't
know
so.
First,
what
are
the
capabilities
of
this
device?
O
The
documentation
provided
by
the
police
indicates
the
technology
can
not
only
scan
and
track
cell
phones,
but
also
wi-fi
connected
devices
potentially
like
laptops.
Does
it
include
smart
devices,
any
technology
with
a
mac
address?
If
so,
has
bpd
used
this
technology
to
track
devices
other
than
cell
phones?
We
don't
know.
Also
is
the
device
capable
of
intercepting
communications
or
merely
tracking
the
locations
of
phones?
Wiretap
law
in
massachusetts
is
extremely
strict
and
it
would
therefore
be
very
troubling
if
the
boston
police
department
possessed
a
device
capable
of
enabling
it
to
directly
perform
wiretapping.
O
The
judge
may
not
know
that
the
police
intend
to
use
a
stingray
to
effectuate
that
warrant
and
that
that
matters,
because
judges
can
implement
all
sorts
of
you
know
kind
of
enhanced
protections
to
ensure
that,
for
example,
information
collected
about
people
who
are
not
subjected
to
the
warrant
is
deleted.
But
if
the
court
doesn't
know
that
the
police
intend
to
use
a
stingray
to
effectuate
a
warrant,
they
can't
impose
those
kind
of
minimization
requirements
as
a
condition
of
granting
the
search
warrant.
O
The
simplest
way
to
clear
this
up
would
be
for
the
boston
police
department
to
provide
not
only
a
spreadsheet
of
information
showing
when
the
stingray
was
used,
but
the
actual
warrant
applications
that
it
filed
with
the
court.
In
each
of
those
cases
to
the
council
and
to
the
public
and
so
a
related
question,
there
is
whether
the
bpd
provides
information
about
the
use
of
stingrays
to
criminal
defendants
in
the
discovery
process,
and
if
so,
what
kind
of
information
is
provided?
O
Third,
does
the
bpd
have
a
policy
to
govern
the
use
of
this
technology?
It
seems
like
no
one
of
the
officers
who
spoke
today
said
that
they
have
guidelines
and
procedures,
but
none
of
those
have
been
produced
if
they
exist.
They
were
not
provided
in
the
materials
forward
to
the
council
in
advance
of
this
meeting
and
if
they
do
not
exist,
that
is
extremely
troubling.
O
Stingrays
can
capture
information
about
hundreds
or
even
thousands
of
people,
even
when
they're
just
looking
for
one
cell
phone
and
if
the
boston
police
department
is
collecting,
even
incidentally
information
about
people
not
subject
to
a
search
warrant
or
an
emergency,
we
need
to
know
what
it
does
with
that
information.
Does
it
have
policies
and
procedures
in
place
to
govern
how
that
data
is
maintained,
deleted,
shared
etc?
O
Are
these
data
provided
to
prosecutors
or
to
criminal
defendants
subject
to
discovery,
requests?
And
finally,
during
today's
hearing,
one
of
the
officers
mentioned
that
the
people
who
operate
this
device
are
trained,
and
yet
again
we
saw
no
training
materials
in
the
materials
that
were
forwarded
to
the
council.
Are
there
documents
related
to
that
training
that
could
be
provided
to
the
council
and
the
public?
If
so,
I
think
we
should
see
them,
so
these
are
just
some
of
the
remaining
outstanding
questions
that
are
unanswered
by
the
documents
provided
by
bpd.
O
When
information
is
produced
to
show
how
these
technologies
are
actually
used.
The
vast
majority
of
deployments
involve
routine
drug
investigations,
and
that
is
exactly
what
we
see
here.
You
know
it
is
true.
The
boston
police
department
did
use
this
technology
a
handful
of
times
over
the
years
to
find
missing
persons
and
kidnapped
people,
but
the
vast
majority
of
the
deployments
were
essentially
routine
drug
investigations
in
the
war
on
drugs,
so
I'll
wrap
up
by
simply
saying
that
the
police
department
seems
to
misunderstand
the
requirements
of
the
surveillance
ordinance
enacted
by
the
council
earlier
this
year.
O
In
the
letter
the
boston
police
department
sent
to
the
council
in
advance
of
this
hearing,
the
department
says
that
any
future
surveillance
purchases
will
be
subject
to
council
approval
and
control.
But
that
is
not
the
whole
story.
The
ordinance
indeed
requires
that
not
only
future
purchases,
but
also
all
existing
technologies
and
the
and
the
policies
governing
their
use
be
approved
by
the
council.
O
So
I
just
want
to
make
sure
that
everybody
on
the
council
understands
that
and
that
the
boston
police
department
understands
that,
and
thank
you
again
councillor
mejia
for
for
calling
this
hearing
and
for
taking
the
time
to
listen
to
us
today.
I
really
appreciate
it.
A
Thank
you
so
much
to
you
both
for
bringing
a
little
bit
of
clarity
and
a
little
bit
of
insight
and
perspective
to
all
of
the
things
that
are
at
play,
and
I
think
that
you
know,
as
we
continue
to
navigate
through
this
committee,
that
we
have
just
created.
A
I
think
we
definitely
want
to
like
switch
things
up
in
terms
of
how
we
run
some
of
our
hearings,
so
we're
going
to
be
leaning
in
because
it
would
be
great
to
have
a
little
bit
of
back
and
forth
and
allow
bpd
to
kind
of
like
clarify
some
of
these
things
that
we
have
just
heard
so,
but
since
they're
not
no
longer
here,
we
can't
do
a
deeper
dive
into
those
things.
But
I
really
do
appreciate.
A
I.
I
think
that,
in
the
interest
of
being
super
mindful
of
everybody's
time,
I'd
like
to
be
able
to
kick
it
over
to
my
colleagues
four
questions.
I'm
going
to
go
first
to
my
co-sponsor,
councilor
arroyo,
followed
by
councillor
and
then
wrapping
up
with
counselor
edwards
and
then
to
me
for
some
final
questions.
B
Thank
you,
madam
chair.
I
actually
don't
have
any
questions
for
this
panel.
I
just
have
a
profound
appreciation
and
gratitude
for
the
the
thoroughness
and
the
details
and
the
things
that
we
should
be
following
up
at
and
looking
at
closer.
Thank
you
so
much
to
this
panel
for
the
work
that
you've
been
doing
and
what
you
presented
today.
A
E
Sorry
about
that,
I
just
want
to
say
thank
you
again
to
fatima
and
kade
to
for
being
here
for
the
light
that
you've
shown
on
the
entire
process.
Only
one
question
kate:
how
would
this
work?
How
would
this
process
work
under
the
past
surveillance
ordinance
like
what?
How
was
it
supposed
to
look
like
you
know,
especially
as
a
new
city
councilor,
but
the
ordinance
is
new?
O
C
E
O
Time
a
year
or
something
like
that
to
essentially
put
together
a
list
of
all
the
surveillance
technologies
that
are
covered
by
the
ordinance
and
then
provide
documentation
about
those
technologies
to
the
city
council
and
to
the
public.
The
council
then
has
an
opportunity
to
ask
for
more
information
about
those
technologies
to
ask
for
specific
policies
to
govern
the
use
of
individual
technologies
like
this
one
that
pose
particular
privacy
risks
and
then
to
solicit
comments
from
the
public
about
each
of
these
individual
technologies.
O
And
then
the
council
has
an
opportunity
to
decide
whether
or
not
the
city
should
continue
using
these
technologies.
You
know
the
council
can
also,
for
example,
say
well.
We
recognize
that
the
stingray,
for
example,
is
valuable
in
terms
of
locating
missing
persons.
You
know
people
who
are
kidnapped
things
like
that,
but
we
have
some
real
concerns
about
about
the
lack
of
information
that
has
been
provided
about
policies
and
procedures.
With
respect
to
how
the
data
is,
you
know
what
kinds
of
data
are
collected
by
these
technologies,
how
that
data
is
maintained.
O
You
know
whether
that
information
is
shared
with
defense,
counsel
and
courts,
and
things
like
that
and
can
request
that
the
boston
police
department
provide
more
information
before
saying.
Okay,
we're
gonna
approve
its
use.
You
know,
subject
to
these
kinds
of
policy
protections,
so
that's
the
way
that
the
ordinance
is
meant
meant
to
meant
to
work
or.
N
E
A
A
Okay,
I
think
in
this
I'll
just
move.
I
don't
think
any
of
my
other
colleagues
are
here
so
first
I'm
just
I
want
to
thank
you
both
for
not
only
showing
up
or
for
continuing
to
hold
all
of
us,
accountable
to
the
work
to
ensuring
that
transparency
and
openness
with
all
things,
public
safety,
and
I
would
also
like
to
just
ask
a
few
questions
to
our
famous
and
I
was
going
to
say
dope
advocates,
but
I,
whatever
you
all
get
you
guys
are
done
a
few
little
questions
for
you
both.
A
N
Yeah,
I
can
start,
I
think
you
know
some
someone
may
have
asked
about
this
or
hinted
at
it.
The
idea
of
using
it
may
have
been
counselor
edwards.
Actually,
the
idea
of
using
these
funds
to
go
towards
community
groups
or
other
you
know
other
locations.
Besides
just
funding
law
enforcement
and
while
that's
an
option,
you
know,
I
would
encourage
the
city
council
to
actually
think
about.
How
can
we
limit
civil
asset
forfeitures
first
right?
Why
are
we
actually
seizing?
N
N
You
know
broadly
and
massachusetts,
and
so
I
think,
actually
talking
to
shannon
dooling
and
making
sure
that
you
all
are
looking
into
you
know
what
she
has
uncovered
and
how
this
is
actually
happening.
Hopefully,
as
kade
said,
if
we
get
this
bill
passed,
you
know
statewide
and
that
lifts
you
know
lifts
the
requirements
that
will
be
helpful,
but
if
it
doesn't
happen,
then
we
need
to
think
about
what
we
can
actually
do.
N
As
a
city
to
potentially,
you
know,
increase
the
the
requirements
for
bpd,
so
I
think
the
main
question
there
is
around
probable
cause
versus-
I
can't
remember
the
other,
the
other
term
for
it,
but
you
can
increase
the
legal
bar
so
that
it's
not
just
you
know,
based
on
suspicion
that
somebody
may
have
done
something
but
raising
the
bar
to
say
you
have
to
be
pretty
damn
sure
that
they
did
something
right
before
you
take
before
you
take
these
things
from
them.
O
Yeah,
I
would
only
add
thanks
bottom,
I
would
only
add
it's
it's
preponderance
of
the
evidence
is
the
standard
that
the
state
law,
the
state
bill,
2671
in
the
senate,
would
apply,
which
is
a
higher
bar
than
probable
cause
so
yeah.
I
would
only
add
that
you
know
anything
that
you
can
do
as
counselors
to
advocate
for
the
passage
of
that
bill.
This
session,
I
think,
would
be
probably
the
most
important
thing
that
you
could
do
so
I
don't
know
if
there's
a
resolution,
you
know
or
any
other.
O
You
know
action,
maybe
a
letter
from
the
council
to
to
the
boston
delegation.
You
know
there's
a
particularly
powerful
person
in
who
represents
boston
at
the
state
house
who
might
benefit
from
hearing
from
the
council.
A
Thank
you
for
that
prompt.
You
heard
that
message
brought
in
clear
so
for
those
who
are
listening
and
colleagues,
we
have
some
archery
lawyers,
the
other,
the
other
piece
that
I
just
kind
of
wanted
to
I'm
just
curious
about,
and
I
wish
this
question
with
the
administration
still
here
would
have
been
really
extremely
helpful.
A
But
you
know
there
is
this
perceived
notion
and
that
everybody
knows
what
their
rights
are
and
it's
a
privilege
when
folks
believe
that
people
have
access
to
information
or
not,
and
I'm
just
curious
from
you
know
an
advocacy
standpoint.
What
information
in
terms
of
just
even
signage-
I
don't
know.
I
just
feel
like
that-
might
defeat
the
purpose,
because
they're
trying
to
gather
information
on
this
down
low,
but
I
just
feel
like
there
needs
to
be
some
sort
of
disclosure
I
mean.
A
O
I
mean
I
would
just
say
that
you
know
that's
one
of
the
reasons
why
we
fought
for
so
long
for
the
surveillance
ordinances
is
because
this
kind
of
thing
should
not
be
happening
in
secret,
and
you
know
the
the
the
claims
that
the
police
have
made.
You
know
for
a
decade
plus
about
why
it's
important
to
keep
information
secret
about
stingray
surveillance,
I
think,
are
pretty
ridiculous.
Frankly,
you
know
the
notion
that
people
think
that
the
government
can't
track
cell
phones,
I
think
even
in
2013
that
was
pretty
silly.
O
So
I
would
just
say
that
public
education
is
an
important.
It
is
an
important
thing,
for
you
know,
advocacy
organizations
like
ours
to
be
engaged
in.
You
know
for
the
council
to
be
engaged
in,
and
I
and
I
I
think
the
press
plays
a
role
there
too.
So
you
know
I
don't
know
that
signage
is
necessarily
the
direction
that
we
would
want
to
go
in,
but
certainly
you
know
when
we're
having
conversations
with
folks
in
the
community
about
policing
and
surveillance.
You
know
letting
people
know
that
this
is.
This
is
something
that's
out.
N
Yeah,
I
will
add
that
you
know
I
think
that
comes
up,
sometimes
where
folks
think
that
if
we
do
more
know
your
rights,
trainings
and
people
know
that
these
cameras
exist
or
know
more,
including
the
surveillance
ordinance
right,
just
knowing
that
they
have
this
equipment
that
that's
enough,
and
it's
really
not.
We
see
quite
literally
every
day
that
people's
rights
are
violated,
even
if
they
know
about
it.
There's
very
little.
N
You
can
do,
especially
when
we're
talking
about
law
enforcement
right
the
amount
of
power
that
they
have
over
you,
especially
in
moments
like
this,
where
maybe
they
are
barging
into
your
home
and
seizing
you
know,
items
from
your
home
and
arresting
you.
You
know
we
can't
expect
people
to
be
able
to
to.
You
know
push
back
on
that
in
the
moment
and
I
think
same
with
surveillance
equipment.
Just
knowing
that
we
have.
N
It
doesn't
mean
that
you
know
the
whole
community
is
going
to
be
able
to
come
to
a
hearing
on
a
tuesday
morning
at
10am
to
let
you
all
know
that
they
don't
want
these
stingrays
in
the
community.
So
we
really
need
elected
officials
to
actually
set
a
higher
bar.
You
know
transparency,
just
knowing
that
things
exist
is
like
the
really
the
bare
minimum,
but
we
actually
need
to
look
at
banning
things
right.
Restricting
them
raising
the
legal
bar.
A
Thank
you
for
that.
So
I
just
wanted
to
just
quickly
acknowledge
I'm
not
sure
if
any
of
my
other
colleagues
have
a
second
round
of
questions
and
just
to
thank
my
colleagues
for
their
questions
and
I'm
going
to
ask
central
staff
to
see
if
you
all
have
anyone
waiting
for
public
testimony
and
I
I
would
have
before
we
move
on
to
public
testimony.
A
I
wanted
to
just
quickly
acknowledge
that
that
level
of
accountability
is
really
key
and,
and
I'm
glad
that
we're
you
both
are
pushing
the
council
to
recognize
our
power
around
the
accountability
piece,
because
one
thing
is
to
know
what
we
know
and
that
transparency
is
great,
but
the
other
piece
is
like
how
we're
going
to
move
beyond
that
conversation
and
and
putting
a
band
to
some
of
the
things
that
we
are
talking
about
here
today
and
other
stuff
that
needs
to
be
delved
into
deeper.
A
So
so
thank
you
for
for
that
and
really
do
appreciate
it.
I
think
that
I
believe
it
looks
like
we
have
a
carlos
pacheco
in
the
audience,
but
I
don't
see
them
registered
to
give
testimony
so
carlos.
If
you're
here,
to
provide
testimony.
Can
you
please
come
forward
and
state
whether
they're,
you're
you're
here
for
public
testimony.
A
Kylo's
going
once
going
twice
all
right,
we're
gonna
keep
on
moving,
then
anyone
else
I
I
see
none.
I
would
just
like
to
thank
everyone
for
attending
this
hearing.
My
colleagues
brought
in
some
really
great
questions,
and
so
I
really
do
appreciate
how
prepared
we
were
to
really
dive
into
this
and
also
the
administration
for
participating
oftentimes.
We
we
host
these
events,
I
mean
these
hearings
and
the
administration
does
not
show
up
and
so
to
to
have
them
show
up.
A
You
know
we
do
appreciate
it.
I
guess
for
me,
the
next
round
of
requests
would
be
to
show
up
and
stay.
I
think
that
there's
that
that
would
be
extremely
helpful,
especially
so
that
there
could
be
some
dialogue
between
the
advocates
and
folks
in
the
administration,
because
there
was
a
lot
that
was
brought
forth
in
the
second
panel
that
I
think,
would
have
really
helped
shape
the
conversation,
so
hopefully
you'll
take
a
time
to
tune
in
and
listen
because
there's
always
an
opportunity
to
learn.
A
A
The
cell
site
simulator
has
been
turned
on
as
recommended
by
kade
and
so
and
that's
all,
but
not
for
that's
just
for
now.
I'm
calling
this
hearing
to
a
close.
Thank
you
so
very
much
everyone
who
has
participated
gabbled
about.
Thank
you
so
much
bye.