Boston City Council, MA Government Operations, 22 Feb 2023

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From YouTube: Government Operations on February 22, 2023

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Government Operations Hearing- Docket #0408- Petition for a special law authorizing the City of Boston to implement rent stabilization and tenant eviction protection.

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Of government operations, it is Wednesday February, 22nd 2023, and we are here today for a virtual hearing on docket0408 a petition for a special law authorizing the city of Boston to implement rent stabilization and tenant eviction. Protection referred to the committee on February 15 2023.

E

This docket was sponsored by mayor Michelle Wu in accordance with chapter 107 of the acts of 2022 modifying certain requirements of the open meeting law, relieving public bodies of certain requirements, including the requirement that public qualities conducted its meetings in a public place that is open and physically accessible to the public. uh The city council will be conducting this hearing remotely and is being recorded. This enables the city council to carry out its responsibilities while ensuring public access to its deliberations through adequate alternative means.

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The public may watch this hearing via live stream at www.boston.gov city council TV or on Xfinity 8, rcn82 or FiOS 964. uh Written comments can be sent to my committee email at ccc.go at boston.gov, we'll be made a part of Rec of the record and available to all counselors. You can also email that email ccc.go boston.gov. If you would like to give public testimony at the end, uh you can also email, uh Christine O'donnell at Christine c, h, r. I s t I n e dot, o Donald d-o-n-n-e-l-l at boston.gov for those giving public testimony.

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Please make sure that your name is visible, so that I may call on you. Members of the public will be prompted promoted to panelists when your name is called. Please make sure that you click yes, when you're prompted to join as a panelist. This afternoon, I am joined by my Council colleagues, counselor Kenzie Bach, counselor, Michael, Flaherty, counselor uh council president president Flint uh counselor, Aaron, Murphy, counselor, Julia, Mejia, counselor, Liz, Braden and I'm sure others will be joining as we go forward.

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uh This matter was sponsored by mayor Wu and we'll enable the city of Boston to implement rent stabilization. This act sets the maximum allowable rent increase at the Boston Metro Consumer, Price, Index or CPI by plus six percent, or a maximum percentage increase of 10. Whichever is lower. This Homer petition includes tenant eviction. Protections, including just cause eviction protections, which means under this proposed law. Tenants could only be evicted for cause such as failure to pay rent, substantial violations of the lease or use of the unit for illegal purposes.

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Additionally, this home rule petition enables Boston to update its condominium and Cooperative conversion to extend the protections of the original legislation to more properties and makes important updates to rental Registries data collection to better support tanks. This hearing is an opportunity for counselors to hear from the administration and Advocates both opponents and and proponents on, the impact of this act as well as listening to public testimony. This committee will be also holding a listening session on March, 2nd 2023 at 2 pm. That will be a hybrid listening session.

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We will be in the chambers, but you can also join us virtually that will be March 2nd at 2023 uh of 2023 at 2 p.m, uh where anyone who is wishing to make a statement or offer public testimony or additional public testimony can do so in person or virtually uh on the fifth floor of City Hall. uh As chair I'm, going to ask that my uh we've been joined by councilor Anderson uh that my counselor colleagues try to and I'm going to.

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Actually use a timer during this hearing for a lot of this, so that we don't uh run longer than we have to here. We got a lot of hard stops if those. uh If my colleagues would like to make an opening statement I'm going to time it so that we have exactly three minutes to do so uh and I'm going to do it in order of arrival, uh which is uh counselor, Kenzie Bach, followed by counselor Michael Flaherty, followed by council president Flynn and then we'll address the rest as we get there.

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I'd also like to thank counselor, Coletta and councilorell for joining us. I I expect we'll likely have a full house, so I'm definitely going to be keeping this timer going uh and I'm going to go ahead and hand it over to counselor Ken the buck for a year. Three minutes.

F

Thank you so much Mr, chair and I'll be briefer than that, because I do see. We've got many folks on the line. I'm glad that we're discussing this proposal, I think that it's super important in the city of Boston to remember that whether people can stay in their housing is what defines our communities.

F

People are not widgets and I've actually seen a lot of rent increases that are more than the 10, even cap that we're talking about here in my district in the last year, and it really reflects a potential World in which you've got Real Estate, Investment Trust, just kind of you know deciding. This is the maximum that that the market can bear and you've got different tenants in an apartment.

F

Every year um you know, with less than one percent vacancy in the city, there's very little ability for us to stabilize our communities unless government steps in in some way and I. Think like we're looking at a proposal here, obviously we're going to talk about all the details, but it's got um I think a really kind of reasonable, balanced approach.

F

It's far from the only thing that we need to deal with our housing crisis and production of units at all levels is in another really important piece, but I'm glad we're having this conversation today, I think it's going to be a really important piece of the puzzle and I will just say that every time that I am in my district talking to heavily rent burdened residents, I think it just underscores the reality that I think everyone on this Council knows, which is that the status quo is not working for bostonians and it's not succeeding in keeping bostonians in Boston.

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So thank you so much Mr, chair and I look forward to the testimony today.

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Speakers, counselor Flaherty I'm, going to make sure I run a timer for everybody, but Council Clarity of three minutes.

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Good morning, Mr chairman also be brief. uh In 2017, as the former chair of committee on government offsite worked with Council colleagues and the Walsh Administration, and a range of impacted stakeholders to pass legislation that um that I felt was thorough in addressing the issue of eviction in rights by passing the just cause, eviction home rule petition, also known as the Jim Brooks stabilization Act.

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Unfortunately, the proposed legislation did not receive uh passage up at the state house, but a key piece of that process uh pushed us to be mindful of eviction, data collection of which the task of collecting such data would have been the responsibility of the office of housing stability, and here we have five years later so I really, you know the questions I'll be diving into.

G

Is I'd like to know what data has the current Administration used to to craft this formal petition uh and um the home petition also mentions the possibility of future ordinances, and um you know why are we addressing such a major concern in a piecemeal fashion? I'd really like to dive in Orbit on my questions with respect to what future indices are anticipated?

G

um If this um secure's passage show I look forward to the test, testimony and not a case for personal impression for me here, I've been through uh as uh you is serving as Gia Mr, chair, I've, served in that capacity and a number of capacities over the years on housing initiatives and Council gets them through mayor signs them, and then they hit the brick wall uh heading up the heading up the hill. So I don't want to see us uh get all you know in a testy and divide it and have a big free-for-all win.

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um You know, if there's not a likelihood of success, we should probably try to ascertain that sooner rather than later and get something turned around quickly, so that we can manage expectations on this one. My advice to you as chair, but appreciate you convening and look forward to the testimony. Thank you. Mr chip.

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Thank you, councilor Flaherty, and thank you to both my colleagues for keeping under three minutes. uh Council president Flynn the floor is yours, followed by uh councilor Murphy. Thank.

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You Mr chair um and thank you to the mayor's team for their work on housing stability issues over the last month or so I have spoken to tenants, housing providers activists, real estate developers, Boston residents on how we can support both housing providers and tenants, while providing housing security to everyone.

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One one common theme I did here is aside from limiting the amount of rent increase. I also wanted to highlight other ways to encourage housing providers to offer housing at an affordable rate, namely, we should also think about having an affordable housing property tax exemption for property owners willing to charge reduced rental rates as well.

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Currently, Boston has a residential exemption for homeowners who own and occupied, but if we have six thousand taxed up, six thousand uh tax exemption for property owners willing to charge 500 a month, big old, Market, rent I think this would encourage many housing providers to provide big old Market rent, something we need in recognize the housing providers who are already doing that. There's many of them that are doing that throughout the city. Money from the community preservation act, the Neighborhood Trust linkage.

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Money might be able to be used to offset this tax, possibly federal funds as well. I think this is a great way to engage Boston Uh current homeowners to be more stakeholders by providing incentives, incentives to charge bego Market rents and provide the opportunity for affordable units to come online more quickly, as rental turnover in Boston is heaviest around September 1st, where an affordable housing crisis now increasing our Stock Building wall units in affordable IDP programs are critical, but also they take years of creating proposals. Community process hearings permits constructions, lotteries and occupancy.

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This housing crisis also calls for Creative Solutions one that I just highlighted to get more affordable units online more quickly in every neighborhood, and we could do this by this fall. In the final analysis, this proposal would provide much relief much more quickly in the next fiscal year. So many renters feeling the pressure across the city. It would also encourage housing providers to help their neighbors meet the high cost of living in one of the most difficult and expensive markets in the country.

B

It would also reward those property owners who have been good neighbors by charging a low lower rate for years to help families stay in the city. I hope we can consider this during this during this discussion and like what like what council of Flaherty said, I would like to see if we're able to have an idea of what the state house would accept and kind of work backwards, so we're presenting them a proposal that we know it that's going to get signed.

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Instead of just sending a proposed to Latvia that we know it's going to die up there, we should have an idea of what the State House leadership will accept, what they will sign and what they won't sign. So we all can manage expectations. uh Thank you, Mr chill. Thank.

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You councilor Flynn uh counselor Murphy, followed by councilor Mejia.

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Good morning, thank you chair um and thank you all. The panelists I know the administration panelists to he. First. um This is an important conversation. I am a renter in Dorchester. I know firsthand that the rising cost of rent has put pressure on so many hard-working people and their families across the city.

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I also am seeing firsthand with my young adult children that it's far more difficult than it should be for um our young people, and you know of all ages to afford rent in the city or to con even consider buying a home, and so for me, the looking at the data and the history, and it shows that new construction and an increase in supply has been the best way to address the high housing costs.

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So, like Council of Flaherty said, I will look forward to this conversation and seeing what data did the Administration use to create this home rule petition um and also knowing we do have other tools um that we can use to if it's increasing the IDP, when we have new construction and really looking at affordable housing and that vital need with the construction along our Transit friendly routes across the city, so the conversation is important and with um also Echo have we reached out to the State House?

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Do we know where they stand on this because I also know, we've had many conversations that are necessary and important, but then go up the hill and don't come back the way we want them. So thank you, chair and happy to be here.

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Thank you, councilor Murphy, councilor Mejia, followed by councilor Braden, followed by councilor Tanya Fernandez Anderson councilman. Here the floor is yours.

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Thank you, chair and I also be super mindful of time. I just um I just wanted to uplift that I'm seeing a trend here, you know having grown up in the city of Boston um when their rent control was established as well as when we had an elected school committee. It seems like a lot of those benefits and things that we're trying to reinstate now um as a constant struggle to get to um the things that I believe can help alleviate a lot of the tension that so many of our residents are experiencing.

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um I would just kind of like to, as we spend some time together, really want to thank the advocates for getting us here, um but there's still so much more work to do. You know. Boston is incredibly expensive. It's actually the second most expensive city to live in um for renters and development is booming across the city and we need more affordable housing developments, and this is an area that many of those who have been involved in the advocacy have been fighting for with new.

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um It says you know: new developments are exempt for 15 years in the mayor's proposal and I'm just curious as to why development should also be accountable um in the solutions around stabilizing the rents, and we want to understand more. A white 15-year extension was proposed. These are the sort of things that I would like to dive into a little bit further um and just you know for me, having grown up on in Section, 8 housing.

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You know I always talk about the fact that I was in my late 40s before I was able to even buy a home here in the city of Boston, and we are displacing so many of our residents and The Time Is Now for us to be incredibly bold, aggressive um and I am looking forward for us to have the political will um that this woman is calling for and I think the harder we can go, um the more uh inclined we are to definitely keep our residents here in the city of Boston, which should be the ultimate goal for all of us is to ensure that those who are living here are able to stay here and the only path forward to that is to make it as affordable as possible and to be as aggressive as this moment is calling for.

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Thank you, councilor Mejia, uh councilor Braden, followed by Council Fernandez Anderson.

J

Good morning, everyone thank you. So much I really appreciate the the um opportunity to participate in this discussion today. It's incredibly important um I think I, come to this from the perspective of the city council for Alston Brighton, um our CDC and Austin Brighton did a report in 20 1999, raising events closing doors, and then they repeated the the uh study again and wrote another report in 2019 and it's really um sobering to think about how our rents are just constantly Rising rent an ocean Brighton for a three-bedroom household would require a family earning.

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This is from their report. 52 795, the median household income in the neighborhood, and they would need to be paying 63 of their monthly income for a rent 33 more than uh the generally recommended 30 of income. So it's it's really um brutal out here for uh Working Families to compete, investors by uh our family, home two family, three family homes uh convert every possible living space into a bedroom and rent it out to students at a thousand dollars a month or young professionals, that's expensive.

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It's uh it means that they're accruing incredible rents and that are really putting our residents under extreme uh stress. In terms of rent burden- and we need to, we need to come up with some fixes and I hope that this conversation will will lead to some positive outcomes and that we will actually manage to get some legislation passed at the state level to help stabilize our rent so that our city of Boston, our wonderful city, is a place where everyone has a place to live. Thank.

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You thank you. Councilor Braden, counselor, Fernandez Anderson, followed by counselor Coletta.

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Thank you Mr, chair good morning. Everyone.

K

Of uh I think I started with the councilor. My Council colleague, um My Clarity I, feel that you know in conversations like this. It's sort of like you want to do the right thing and you want to do it all the way. So, if you think of rent control, but then this is supposed to be a conversation or about red civilization, and this maybe is the happy medium. Then, how can we as counselors, have this conversation um and get to a place where we agree?

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So, if I'm practically I think that that I'm, looking forward to the conversation and learning from The Advocates from my colleagues, um of course, from uh Chief, Dylan and others in here, but also just understanding practically, how can we, as counselors, come to a solution that we actually don't do away with it at all?

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um But if we, if this is the happy medium, then how can we move forward um in that decision? So um just open to the conversation and listening, and hopefully we can come to a solution that benefits the community. Thank you.

E

Thank you, counselor Fernandez, Anderson, uh councilor Coletta, followed by councilor warrell.

L

Thank you, chair, Arroyo, I'm, very happy to be here and having this discussion. We all know that the city is nearly two-thirds renters, including myself, so tenant protections like run stabilization is just one tool in the toolbox, as others have mentioned, to keep people in place in addition to the production of truly affordable housing and as the youngest person on this Council I feel like it's very important that I bring this voice.

L

I have only ever known a world without rent stabilization measures, and what I know is that this world is hurting folks in my community of my generation and many many others. So by all account, the current system needs to be adjusted, and in my district in particular, it's no surprise. There have been many reports on this. East Boston has seen a huge level of displacement due to massive rent, spikes among young families, immigrants and seniors, and so from the outset.

L

I do understand that we need to be able to walk this delegate balance both to protect renters from exorbitant year draft over year increases, while also providing small landlords of older housing stock to be able to keep up with capital repairs. So to me, I think this proposal is a good start, I'm, especially pleased to see the inclusion of Just Cause eviction with the amount of growth in D1.

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I am looking forward to also discussing discussion discussing the 15-year exemption for new construction, but I do understand that we need to be able to thread this needle carefully and I. Do look forward to getting into the details and figuring out what a successful hormone petition looks like up at the State House. That also goes far enough to protect our communities. Thank you.

E

Thank you, councilor Coletta, councilworrell,.

M

Thank you, chair Royal. um The proposed home petition is a step in the right direction. um It will definitely provide stability across Boston and constantly. We all hear about the affordability and here in Boston, and this measure starts to address that issue.

M

However, it will take this home and petition, coupled with production and Zoning policies on both city and state level, along with consistent and increased Investments and targeted assistance to further rental assistance into our first time, home buyers, City, Housing, Voucher programs to solve the housing crisis that we find ourselves in I also want to take this time to acknowledge all our small landlords who fly low rents and as we work through this policy, I want to ensure that our age, strong community community, that has choice but cash Port, is not negatively impacted by our policy.

M

I'm. Looking forward to the conversation um I'm looking to hear from The Advocates in the administration. Thank you.

E

Thank you, Council Morrell, uh we're gonna go now to the uh Administration panel I believe they have a presentation that they are going to do. I will give my very slight opening statement on this, which is I, recognize. There's history to these attempts I uh personally before I was on the council, followed the Jim Brooks act.

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uh I saw sort of the multiple changes that that took upon uh appearing within the council, all of the different protections that it provided that were stripped out of there by the council, and it was essentially just an eviction uh measuring tool when it was when it was done and I saw that guy at the house uh and so I'm very aware that there's a history to this kind of work uh and that there's often a push and pull uh where we are trying to protect sort of essential protections for residents of the city of Boston, uh while also trying to make something that ultimately will get passed at the State House.

E

uh Who has done very little, unfortunately, to address this issue that we have had in the city of Boston and cities across the state, frankly of rising home costs and Rising rents, uh and how we protect folks and keep people in their homes uh and so I consider this very important legislation? It's important to me that we hear from community that we hear from folks that are trying to do this, uh and so we're going to try and facilitate that multiple times.

E

If you're, just joining us and I, see that we have almost 100 participants now we will have a public listening session on top of today, March 2nd at 2 pm, both hybrid and in person, I've also been joined by councilor Lara and counselor, Louis, Jen and so I will give you a very brief opening statement, since we have folks on on Time holds uh so we have about two to three minutes for opening, so I'll go to counselor, Lara and then Council Louisiana. Thank you for joining me and then uh the administration.

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uh We should be queued up to go and I'll just introduce you now so that we're ready to do that.

E

uh Sheila Dylan is here with us: the chief of Housing and director of the mayor's office of housing for city of Boston, the city of Boston and Tim Davis, the deputy director of policy development and research for the mayor's office of housing for the city of Boston, who I believe will be leading us through that presentation uh and then we'll open it up to counselors for questions of the administration and we'll follow that with Advocate panels. After that.

E

So thank you, everybody for being here we're going to try and keep this train moving, uh but councilor Lara, followed by councilor Louisiana. If you have any openings now is the time.

N

Thank you chair and thank you um to everyone for being uh here with us today. First I want to start off by commending all of the organizers and the folks who have been working on getting us to this place for multiple decades, ultimately and I want to commend mayor, Wu and Sheila Dillon and the mayor's office of housing for being brave enough to not only see a problem, but taking a step that has from what we've seen publicly really put you in a tough position, and so I just wanted to start off.

N

By sharing my gratitude, because this is a historic moment. It is the first time uh in a very long time that this is being heard on the council and it's no small feat to try to move this forward, not just in the city but also at the legislature. So thank you.

N

I think that my job here today and the reason why we're here and what I'm hoping to get out of the working sessions, the listening sessions and this hearing today, is ultimately to ensure that the people who need it the most, are properly protected and, looking. You know, scrutinizing and really critically looking at this homo petition and making sure that it does just that so I'm here to listen to the administration.

N

I have lots of questions, and my hope is that I will leave here with a better understanding of what we need to do to move forward. Thank you, chair.

E

Thank you, councilor Lara Council. If you have an opening uh statement, this is the time.

O

Thank you uh Mr chair, and thank you for this convening so quickly. I won't belabor. The point I'm excited that we are having this conversation. We know that too many of our families, too many of our renters, are being squeezed out and displaced from this city, um and we can do something about that.

O

We as government have a responsibility to make sure that we are building a city where everyone can not just survive but really thrive in making sure that we are preventing uh the rent gouging that we see increases that are um really um inexplicable and unjust. We need to protect against that. So I want to thank the mayor for putting this forward and for doing the work of making sure that we are protecting renters, pretending the majority of bostonians who agree with rent stabilization I'm excited by um just causing the just cause.

O

Eviction for uh provision here. I know that a lot of folks, a lot of uh folks here are members of the city council, but also uh so many members of community have been doing the work to make sure that just cause eviction is something that we fight for to prevent displacement and to prevent. um No false evictions, so I'm excited for this conversation. I also like want to Echo a lot of what my city councilors have said.

O

We want to make sure that we are presenting the best possible home rule petition uh for uh to be put before the legislature to make sure that we are not just engaging this exercise uh that leads to nothing. I want us to actually get something out of this I'm excited about the possibility of red caps and of uh uh just cause eviction, and so I think that this is a moment in time for us to really uh think critically about what we present I'm excited to hear from the administration.

O

Thank you, Chief Dylan, for being here. um Tim Davis um I am looking forward to this collaborative effort among the administration, US um and members of the community and advocates for their work. So thank you.

E

Thank you, councilor Jen, and we're going to start with uh the presentation from the administration. If you have any opening remarks, uh Chief, Dylan uh or Mr Davis, please feel free to give them uh and then, when they are done just to make this simpler, so I don't go through I think we have almost a full house of counselors, so I don't just go through every counselor asking. If you have questions, please raise your yellow hand.

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If you have questions for the administration, uh your Zoom hand and I will go in order of arrival, but that way I can see you spotlighted and we can make this more efficient, uh Chief, Dylan uh and Mr Davis. The floor is yours.

P

Thank you so much and I will um start with some very brief remarks then hand it over to Tim Davis who will really walk you through the the proposed policy um good morning, chairman Arroyo and members of the city council.

P

um As many of you know, because we've been talking, the Administration has been working very hard to make Boston a more livable, affordable, City working with our partners at the bpda and the BHA, as well as our non-profit and for-profit development. Partners. The city has employed many strategies to solve Boston's housing issues, often in collaboration with you. In the past two years, we've permitted over 2 000 units of affordable housing and with your support with city council support, the mayor has allocated over 200 million dollars of arpa funding for affordable housing, development and Housing Programs.

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The bpda completed an audit of surplus and underutilized city property and planning is underway to use this land for the creation of mixed income, housing and new neighborhoods. After careful analysis. Last week the bpda approved an increase to linkage fees generated for commercial development.

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City departments have come together and are designing a more efficient process to review and approve, affordable housing developments.

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The bpda is working hard to increase planning, ensuring that we support the needs of our growing city, including new Housing, Development and, very importantly, we're partnering with other cities and towns in the region to set Regional Housing goals and request the resources and strategies necessary to ensure that this housing serves both existing and anticipated residents.

P

All of this work is underway and will continue the home rule petition before you today supports our continued growth as it allows landlords to realize Fair rents and it exempts new developments for 15 years. People that are suggesting that growth will stop. It are misleading.

P

What the home rule petition does stop, however, is behavior that harms our residents. This home real petition provides protections against mistreatment in the real estate market. It would stop rent gouging and evictions when a tenant has done nothing wrong.

P

You know, I will just say that we all received the calls, because we talk about the the calls that we receive with with each other. The office of housing stability receives them every week, tenants, many of them elderly or families with school-aged children have done everything right. You know they pay their rent on time, take good care of their apartments and give back to their communities.

P

However, they received notice that their rent is going to increase well beyond what they can afford. Oftentimes. They report that their rent will double even triple or they've, been asked to leave their home that they have lived in for decades with little or no notice, because the property is going to be sold or repositioned and the landlord or the new owner wants it emptied out. If we can agree that this Behavior should be stopped, then we can agree that this home rule petition should be approved and sent to the State House.

P

uh Just in closing, the rent stabilization policy was not designed in a vacuum. The mayor created a rent, stabilization advisory, a group of respected developers, housing Advocates and academics to both study, rent stabilization policies in other cities and states and to discuss what would work best for Boston.

P

In addition, the city held five Community listening sessions with different stakeholder groups. We heard from large developers in their trade organizations, small Property, Owners homeowners, health professionals, tenants and neighborhood leaders. All of these opinions were listened to. In closing, we feel confident that the home rule petition being discussed today is both good and necessary for Boston. I really want to thank you for your time and interest in this really very important life. Life-Altering Boston altering matter Tim Davis is now going to walk you through this home rule petition in some detail. Thanks again.

E

Tim, you muted.

Q

Foreign, the unmute button disappears when you screen share Believe, It or Not. uh Thank you counselors. Thank you, Council Arroyo, chair for this meeting today. um This is a fairly short presentation that goes over the details of the home rule petition.

Q

There are traditionally Five Pillars of any rent stabilization policy. First of all, is a choice of rent cap. How should in-rent increases be capped from an annual or multi-year basis exceptions to the cap. What types of expenses should be able to be passed through to tenants as exceptions to the rent increase Gap instead of policy allow a landlord to bank rent increases if they choose not to apply them in a given year.

Q

We have a market reset, should the base rent level reset to market rate or some other amount, when there is a change in tenancy exemptions, what types of properties should be exempt from rent stabilization and administration? How should the rent stabilization policy be administered?

Q

We will also discuss some companion policies that are also part of this process. In turn, the choice of rent cap we're looking at the Consumer Price Index for the Boston region, plus six percent not to exceed 10 percent.

Q

This proposal would Place needed limits on rapid rent increases to protect existing tenants from 2012 to 2021 average annual growth in the Consumer Price Index was 1.9 percent.

Q

Given this history, the average annual rent cap would have been 7.9 below are 10 top inflation was very high in 2022 at 7.1 percent, and therefore the cap for 2023 would have been our proposed overall cap of 10 exceptions to the rent cap or adjustments in the maximum allowable rent may be granted through a petition process on the following grounds.

Q

Tenants can appeal based on habitability concerns or changes in Services provided to the tenant, for example, if the landlord had provided the laundry room and that laundry room would be removed, that would be a change of services, landlords right to receive a fair return in consideration of the following factors: rapid increases in property taxes, maintenance and operating expenses.

Q

Certain kinds of Capital Improvements, substantial deterioration of the rental unit, changes in the number of tenants for changes in space or Services, provided so in that case, if there wasn't a laundry room, but then they then provide you belongs.

Q

We are also proposing for this home repetition of a market reset. The rent would be reset to Market between tenancies, although the new tenant will pay for Market granted. First, the new tenant will then have the rent, stabilization and just cause protections during their tenancies companion. Policies such as just cause eviction will also be needed to protect those tenancies exemptions, the proposing exemption of 15 years of new construction.

Q

This uh is intended to not chill the construction market and make sure that uh developers could continue to build some six or fewer units units where the tenant pays a set percentage of their income towards rent either because they have a voucher or because they're in an income restricted unit where that is also the case- units in hotels, motels, other facilities occupied by transit.

Q

Yes, institutional facilities such as hospitals and dorms, and units where the owner resides of their primary residence and shares kitchen or bathroom and tenants this table just outlines how we kind of gives us an understanding of exactly what percentage of humans would be impacted by such a policy. We first exempt those buildings that are 15 years.

Q

Then we have the owner occupy units, then rental units and owner-occupied small buildings, then public housing and project-based tenants and voucher holders, so total units that would still be covered is approximately 127 000 units which is 41 of all units. But it's 55 of all rental units.

Q

Administration, so the home rule petition doesn't go into all the details about exactly how this would be administered. The home rule petition is intended to enable the city to to set Rent policies and to set up a rank stabilization system.

Q

So what will be needed after passage of the State House is an ordinance again between the city council and the mayor's office to actually establish a rent board to set up an evaluation period to expand the rental registry to collect additional information, including tenant information, leases, rent charge and inspections completed to establish the hearings and petition process to set up the requirements around notices of rent increases and determinations, and also to set the registration fee for the rental registry and to the minister program companion, policies that we're also proposing today, inclusion of Just Cause requirement for evictions.

Q

This would apply to all tenants, even if they are not intervent stabilized units. Tenants may still be evicted for a number of reasons, including, but not limited, to failure to pay rent, substantial violations of the lease substantial damage to the property, destruction of peace and quiet for other reasons and use of the unit for individual purposes.

Q

We would also be enabled to set relocation fees for tenants who were in quote unquote, no fault just cause cases, meaning uh there's an owner or relative move-in or demolition of the property.

Q

We would also be enabled, by this formal petition, to expand our condominium conversion ordinance to make sure it is applicable to all property types and years built. Currently the condominium conversion Ordnance only applies to buildings with four or more units built before in 1983..

Q

We would also be expanding the registry through ordinance in terms of the next steps, we're very thankful that we're having the first city council public hearing today that there are listing sessions and working session scheduled and this process may result in changes the whole repetition. Although we think this is a very good petition that will be uh most appropriate for the State House. The city council would vote on this homo petition. It would then be submitted to the Massachusetts state legislature.

Q

We would approve who would be required by approval of the state legislature and the governor, although an override of a gubernatorial detail as possible, and then, as I said earlier after passage, the mayor and Council worked together to pass an ordinance implementing the whole world petition uh that uh that's the end of my uh presentation. So I look forward to your questions.

E

Thank you to the administration for that presentation at this time, I'm going to ask my colleagues if you'll just hit your Zoom hand uh to raise it. If you have questions uh and then I'll go in order of arrival, I see, counselor Brock has her hand up uh you also the first one here which makes this very easy. Counselor Bach uh the floor is yours: I'm gonna put a timer for five minutes uh and then uh you'll be followed by uh counselor Flint.

F

Great thanks so much councilor Arroyo um uh Tim. Thank you for that presentation and uh I I. Just had one I wanted to ask about um the I know.

F

The 15-year new construction thing has come up as a question for folks I mean for me: um I think it's really important for us to incentivize housing Creation in the city, um I I think, as you know, came on the linkage hearing a few weeks ago to say that we absolutely need a different rate for lab in part because right now everyone wants to build lab instead of Housing and we need to have people proposing housing projects.

F

So so I I understand that I guess I'm slightly curious about the look back, because, when I think about the meaning, the units that have been built in the last 15 years, it seems to me like for many of those units. You know. Short-Term capital will have already exited it's hard for me to imagine that people baked into their Pro forma's annual increases that are higher than what this policy would be. Allowing so I'm just kind of wondering about um 15 years in the from now.

F

Direction makes sense to me and then incentivizing housing production perspective, but they'll look back in the same mirror. Image is what I had a question about.

F

Q

um I wasn't sure if she was going to respond or not um she's, leaving it to me um the 15-year look back was it was intended to be kind of consistent with developers about what we're looking at was the reason for the look back as well as the look forward and I do understand your point about whether or not that should be something that should be changed to just be a little forward, um but that was kind of kind of another way of kind of addressing, like all the psychology of developers around how we write children I'm sure.

Q

If you have more to add to that.

P

The only thing I would add Tim is that it's important we've learned from other jurisdictions that we set the the start of the oversight the over the regulation um back. Otherwise there there we could see an increase in rents and charges as people get ready for a new policy, so I think there's some motivation to have to have a set date be hot, that is behind us uh and not not in the future.

F

Got it yeah no and I mean and I. Think predictability is super important, um I think I. You know, I do just want to say to folks. You know who are concerned about kind of like government regulation in the housing space that um there's tons of government regulation in the housing space, including the fact that the fact that vacancy in the city of Boston is less than one percent, which is allowing people to sort of charge.

F

These you know the landlord is in the driver's seat if the market economy has to do with what councilor Morrell referenced. The fact that there are real zoning and other constraints on the construction of new housing, so I just I want to say like we're in a government regulated space here all the way down, and the question is really: how do we adjust these regulations so that there's predictability for everybody, both the landlords and also the residents critically of our communities?

F

um I've been talking a lot with folks about the fact that you know we talk a lot about the Equity Building values of mortgages, but the other thing about mortgages is that they give you predictable. Monthly payment schedules and that's really what I think we need for our renters, so Tim I have more questions but I know the chair is keeping a tight, timer and I also wanted to apologize.

F

Mr chair, it is Ash Wednesday and so in about an hour I'm going to be stepping out uh just to go to Services, um but before I gave up my time, I I felt like I would be remiss not to thank Tim Davis, who just gave remarkable presentation that distilled a lot into a short time and has just done so much housing policy work on behalf of the city of Boston, because I think he is leaving us soon and it just feels like likely.

F

The last Forum in which I'll have the opportunity to say that, while he's still here with us, so I, just I I really wanted to thank Tim for all of his work and to remind people that policy matters and that there are some people who have spent decades working away, trying to figure out how to house more bostonians more stably and make this the city for all and and I count. Tim Davis. Very much High among that number, so I just wanted to say that Mr chair thank.

E

You and you still have 40 seconds if you want to get a last question.

F

Well, no I can't I can't quiz him now, so um no I think I mean I think. Obviously the question that was raised by a couple of counselors about you know if we know that we want to be talking about condo conversion for buildings after 1983 for less than four units. Is there a reason to sort of refer to that in the more vague way, as the proposal does or to actually just say it just put that change into the legislation?

F

I mean that would be a follow-up working session conversation for me, um but I, don't think I I, don't need an answer on that right now,.

Q

Thank you, I will actually answer. I think that that's a strategy I think to think that to give us that, enabling, rather than kind of potentially um have the State House say you can't do it that way, I think it's what's more of a like. Just give us the inmate. Let us do it.

F

Got it okay, thank you so much Mr chair and thank you. Tim thank.

E

You Tim uh councilor Flynn, uh you have five minutes for questions and if any of my other Council colleagues have questions for the administration before we go to the next panel, uh please raise your yellow hand. I see councilor Flaherty, uh Council, Bluey Jan councilor Colette outgoing order of arrival, uh counselor Flynn, followed by counselor Flaherty.

B

Yeah thank uh thank you, councilor Arroyo. Thank you, chair, Arroyo and I guess. The question is either to him or to Sheila um just reading the the documents set of sent over by by the mayor's team.

B

um There's a there's, a section in in there that says, um provided that the legislature made reasonably vary the form in substance of the request of legislation within the scope of the General Public objection objectives of this petition. It's going to run the first page um so when, when we send over a home rule petition to the State House, what what can and what can't the State House do in terms of changing what we send over to them. Are they allowed to change the home rule to what they think is best for Boston?

B

Are they allowed to change the language or is it or is it just changing like technical issues or or spelling issues, but are they able to edit the document in terms of a housing perspective, uh V Wanted,.

Q

Foreign yeah I I'm happy to answer that, so it is um within. When you have that language, it does provide the opportunity for the members of the State House to make some changes. However, if they make substantial changes, which it's not it's a little gray on what exactly stands substantial means, but then it would have to come back to us with re-approval before it would actually take effect. However, um it is the State House understands that it may be tinkering.

Q

It may be that they say well, you know we came up with CPI plus six and they say we're going to go to CPI plus five I mean I. Think that's the kind of range and changes that we might expect at the state house, but to to send it up without the ability to change it at all kind of forces. The state legislators to into a box to be just yes or no um without them kind of having some ability to kind of take a look at it.

B

Thank you Jim, so they have the ability, if, if they think it's in the best interest of Boston, they have the ability to change that percentage. Is that accurate? Yes, that's! Okay!

B

Okay, that's a lot of that's a lot of influence. Someone has um in making decisions for the city of Boston, um but does it make sense for us to know what these State House leaders would accept from Boston so that we know what percentage that they would accept, whether it's six percent, whether it's seven percent, whether it's five percent? Do we know what percentage that is so we can. We can make our own decision about what we think is in depth. What we think is best for the city in that it wouldn't get.

B

It wouldn't be changed for us without our our input.

P

um Counselor I, you know we're having good conversations with the Boston delegation and they're very interested in seeing what um the home rule that comes up but they'll have their own hearings. uh The whole state will vote on this, so I think it's impossible at this point in time to know exactly what they will and will not approve.

B

Okay, thank you, Sheila and, and my my other question is generally speaking that say it's six percent that we that we sent up. That's the language um and it's signed by the State House officials.

B

How do we know at some point down the road that that that figure will not change is? Does the city have the ability to change that figure at a certain point of time, at a certain point in time.

P

No, um whatever, because it's so it's and Tim correct me if I'm wrong, because it is so specific in the home rule petition that it would require legislative action if we were to change the CPI plus six. If that is what's sent up.

B

P

Then other other components of this get worked out with boss in in through ordinance, but the CPI plus six or the the amount that rents can be increased could only be changed through going through a whole new legislative uh session in action.

P

B

And Sheila Autumn again uh thanks thanks for answering my question, I guess. My final question is: in South, Boston I see a lot of um land um land loads, a housing providers providing renting out an apartment to um someone in need. At times it could be a family member. It could be a neighbor and they're charging a rent, that's below Market, raise um I proposed a formula or proposed something that would help that landlord. Keep that practice going maybe give that landlord some type of financial assistance as it comes to property tax.

B

Are we able to consider that, as as we discussed this home rule petition? Is this something you would support? Sheila.

P

I think it's a I think it's a good idea. This is Sheila Dillon speaking and I haven't processed this with my colleagues um if it was tax relief. My understanding counselor is that that too would need legislative action.

B

I have well that that's why I'm asking in during this during this hearing is this something that could be added to the home rule.

P

I'd have to take that back. uh Counselor, I, I think there's two things you know: should it or could it I think um I think it probably like I think it's. We have the ability to do that, but I I think we need to question strategy and whether that would help us get this. Let piece of legislation passed but I'd be glad to discuss that.

B

Okay, thank you see all our night and and just reading the documents. I read them very closely: um the the six percent Plus plus the CPI um that that seems that seems somewhat reasonable to me. That's a that seems like it's a it's a compromise. It's it's based on studies that you've done How likely. Is it going to stay six percent um when we send it up to the state house, or do you think it's going to decrease.

B

That percentage.

P

I I, don't I, don't have an answer. Maybe Tim does I. Don't I I think that when things go to the state house um the outcome there could be different outcomes. They could say this seems reasonable, which we, which I agree with you I, think it's a very reasonable, um a very reasonable measure, but the state could decide the legislature could decide to change that, but that that would be very substantial and that would have to come back to Boston for our approval.

B

P

B

I I'm at the six percent that that may or will propose um do they could slightly to be six percent. When the city council votes on it or do you think it'll be it'll, be lower.

Q

I I think we're here today to hear from all of you about exactly what kind of positions you're all taking in terms of that percentage. So at this point, I don't think if you can align on where it's going to be in a week from now after we go to a working session.

B

No, that's fair enough. Thank you, Tim, thank you, Sheila and thank you Council Royal. Thank you, madam thank you. Mr chair.

E

Thank you, councilor Flynn I'm, going to go to counselor Flaherty uh and then we'll go in order of arrival, so that will be uh councilor, Coletta, councilor, Lara and then uh councilor Luigi.

G

Thank you, Mr, chair, just to expand on uh council president Flynn, uh recognizing that we do have a lot of good landlords in the city and not wanting to punish them, making sure that we have some, maybe codification around, where, if they're renting below Market, rent they're actually exempt from sort of the whole Nuance of having to register and be involved in any of it.

G

I would be supportive of something like that as a tipping cap to those that have been good landlords in the city and also to expand a little briefly on um just one Clarity in this legislation that that that any change in the percentage I would argue is a substantial um material change and that, if there's any change in the percentage that that would have to come back through the process that that wouldn't be up to some sort of someone may say in the administration say well, no, that's not a real big change.

G

I would argue that any change in the percentage is a substantial material change and I'm asking that that be baked into this legislation, so that in any change, has to come back through the process um and just can't be out of LED just one person making the decision as to whether they think it's a material of substantial change.

G

um So that's just opening on those two and if I can get two brief answers and then, as the administration factored in the economic downturn and what role that will play in reducing rents, as well as reducing new housing, construction interest rates, uh our stock markets down um construction costs, fuel maintenance, repair, insurance or up job markets down companies are now starting to lay off.

G

Has any of that been factored in and then lastly um get my questions in that could be answered in that order is one of the concerns I have is that you know this measure could actually I guess inadvertently, increase regular rents. um You could see landlords basically increasing their rent every single year to sort of keep Pace with what's allowable, whereas suddenly enlarge the good landlords.

G

Don't necessarily do that and then you have the reset portion when you have a tenant and I could almost see, particularly in and around our colleges and universities, where we have these one-year rentals that every year those landlords get to hit the reset button charging a market rate again, putting further crunch on those particular neighborhoods, where a lot of the housing goes to to students or gets sort of chewed up by our colleges and universities and uh in turn, pushing those neighborhood residents out of those respective neighborhoods.

G

So you own something in and around say, Mission Hill or even at bu or BC, and your rent is basically every year it's going to be September to August and then whatever repairs you want to make. Even if you are making repairs, then you get to Jack the rent up to market rate again that next September there'll never be a break in the action, particularly around our colleges and universities, which arguably is one of the main reasons we have the affordable housing crisis in the first place. It's a good news, bad news story.

G

Good news is, we boast the best colleges and universities in the world. Hundreds of thousands of students come here to participate in and get a great education in higher education. uh Bad news is that you know, because our college and university are not providing affordable, on-campus housing and they continue to gobble up property in the neighborhoods.

G

Taking precious property off of the tax rolls frankly um driving up those costs so again, sort of a Confluence of forces here, but um I just think there may be an unintended consequence here when we're hitting the reset button, or we have landlords that normally don't jack up the rent every single year they have a good tenant they're a good landlord. A tenant could have a three four five six year run at that same rent.

G

Now, because of these regulations, landlords will be available when dialed in to make sure that, just in case uh because they regulated they need to jack up that rent. So those are my certified questions if you can take them in order, that'd be great. Thank you, Chief and thank you Tim for the work you've done on this.

P

Thank you, councilor I'll, start and I. You know, I do share your concern about student housing and how many students are living in our neighborhoods, and that is why we continue to really work with our institutions to build more dormitories, especially close to campuses. So um I want to continue to work with you on that.

P

um One of the reasons that we are allowing landlords to reset the rents to to what they want is reset it to Market between tenants is that we we we want to. We want to make sure that um that owners, don't uh especially if they've, got good tenants they, you know they raise the rents every single year and by giving them that relief valve. Who really do think that addresses the the issue that uh they're going to be concerned that they need to raise the rents to the maximum every single year?

P

We also believe that I agree with you. Most landlords don't raise their rents. We looked at the app we look at advertised rents every year. We look at uh through surveys what people, what what landlords are charging and the vast majority of uh landlords in the city are charging. uh You know less than five percent per year over the last five six years, but we do know that some of landlords, especially when properties, change, hands and they're, bought for more money.

P

um They they jack up the rent, well well beyond 10.

P

So we think this proposal uh will continue to allow good landlords to raise raise rents reasonably, but that they can reset between tenants and that I think they will continue to work with the tenants that they want to keep that they have a relationship with but allows them to to increase, as I said, between tenancies and I, really think that that piece is very, very important, because I think it will keep rents more reasonable for the for the for the for the tens that they've had, for you know some some period of time.

P

Tim I, don't know if you want to add to that.

Q

uh No but I think I didn't want to address. I think was actually the very first question which was about the home rule petition and its amendability I um I, said I said: there's some gray area there, so I think that it would be um up to both our legal staff and, of course, the mayor's office and and the council to say that uh whether or not a change from the um State House required us to go through a process again.

G

Have you guys identified any area where sort of uh you know, rent control or rent stabilization is this of being characterized has worked, I know, we've abandoned it back in 94 and I know. Other areas uh have either got rid of it or have made significant substantial changes to it because of the divestment companies leaving uh people leaving Etc, so maybe for a whole Myriad of factors, but for those that thought it was going to stabilize uh their cities. That doesn't necessarily happen. So um I just don't know.

G

Where are we looking to a specific area, or is this specifically tailored um for Boston in for sort of our uniqueness? If you will versus you know preparing ourselves to other cities, many of whom are upside down uh with you know major companies and residents leaving those cities in search of other cities in search of stability and what factor has rent control played in any of that and sort of I? Guess what data are you using to to craft this? This? uh This legislative.

P

G

P

A

P

Know I'll just start and then Tim, please um I, think this. This policy is, we've certainly looked at every. You know: State cities, in fact, most major cities that are, you know doing quite well, although some of them have high housing costs do have some form of rent stabilization. It's it's Unique that a major city does not. We did craft this with Boston very, very much in mind. We've got, we've got very low vacancies. We've got a lot of a lot of Demand on our housing.

P

Our housing prices are are very strained because of our shortness and Supply. So we crafted this so that we would continue to see development happen in every neighborhood. We really want to see increased development, both affordable mixed income and Market. At the same time, you know really stop the the gouging in some of the worst behavior that we've all witnessed. So it was crafted very specifically for Boston, Tim I, don't know if you have anything to add yeah.

Q

I was just going to add to that that many of the cities that have such a policy are there, um either their percentage of CPI or their CPI plus percent. That they're using is substantially lower than this, and we think that by having this higher allowance prevention creases that we're avoiding the the worst of what we've seen in some others.

G

Thank you Chief and thank you Tim. Thank you. Mr chairman appreciate my colleagues.

E

Thank you, counselor Flaherty, I'm gonna go to uh because we're doing this in order of arrival, counselor, Mejia uh and then it'll be followed by councilor Braden. Yes,.

I

uh Thank you, chair and I, just kind of want to uh stay a little bit longer in some of the questions that councilor president Flynn asked, and then just some of the response that we heard from Sheila and I would just be curious to know what parts of the hormone petition are adjustable by the city without legislative action versus what would be set in stone.

I

So if you could just provide some more insight and then I'm just curious what the goal, what would would the goal and size and process of the red board be set up by the city at a future date and what is the intention and appointment um or elected board, like kind of if you can walk me through? What that would look like you know, we would love for the rent control board to have a little bit more of oversight and of any increases and I'm just curious. You know the way it was written.

I

It was a little bit Broad and it didn't give a lot of context within the actual policy. So if you can help us understand that that would be incredibly helpful.

Q

um Certainly councilmania the um the features that are the most kind of like set in the homo petition are one the choice of the cap, the CPI plus six, with the max of ten percent. Some of the um exemptions uh like such as the 15-year exemption um and also the just cause eviction. Those are things that are very much set out in the home rule petition and are specific and would have to be changed again through an additional home repetition.

Q

The reason for that is to make Clarity on both the cap and the exemptions, uh the from the policy, um the also under just cause eviction. One of the reasons why it's spelled out. There is because this is the state courts that you're there for regulating, and it's important that the state house has actually made the statement about what is being regulated instead of just by the city. But what the formal position allows us to do and have more flexibility in is like you mentioned, setting up a rent control board.

Q

It says we can set up a rent control board, but it would be between the city, council and the mayor to decide exactly how many members of that rent control board. There would be what kind of members would they be? Would it be? You know two tenants, two homeowners to you know different different methods of setting up a rent control board.

Q

um It would be up to us uh at the implementation stage the set out exactly what the rental registry would do and what it would collect and what the notices would be, and these are all things that I think that are better kind of done at the city level than having the state having internet participation in, and so that gives us the right to kind of it enables us to do those things, but then it comes back to us to set the policies.

P

Tim, if I could just add one thing, I think what the counselor asked too, is that we re we need State approval. We need this to pass at the State House, to regulate rents, to to uh have just cause eviction and to allow us to regulate condo conversions. So we need all of that Authority from the state before we can take any of those actions.

I

uh uh Thank you. Can you just talk to me a little bit about kind of um what role um if any Community will play and to continue to kind of provide oversight? As you move forward through this process like what's going to be the checks and balances, because you know sometimes we I I, see legislation in in you know, intention versus impact, sometimes there's a disconnect so I'm just curious kind of. How are you going to be measuring success.

Q

So it's not spelled out here because I think that'll be spelled out later when we get to the implementation stage, but they intended that there would be um study of the impacts of uh of event stabilization on our communities um and that would be taken into account for any either changes to how we implement it or any changes that might go to the state house or more uh dramatic changes to the policy and obviously, as part of the rent control board itself.

Q

That's an opportunity to set up a system where there is some accountability within the rent control board itself.

I

And I'm just curious how we, um as you, continue to navigate through this process? What are some of the provisions that you're putting in place to support our smaller landlords, our elders and those who are already filling the crunch so kind of? Can you walk me through what that looks like.

Q

Well, first and foremost, where um we have proposed an owner occupancy exemption for properties up to six units.

Q

um Also, we believe that, given the the size of the calf, that's being the rents cap, that's being allowed here that it will um for most uh landlords and will, if that will be sufficient for them to be able to um get what they need. I'm. Looking at what you call a fair return standard, but also under any rent stabilization program. You have to have an allowance for additional ways for landlords to appeal to get a higher rent under certain circumstances, and that again would be spelled out in implementation or that's how that would work.

I

Yeah, thank you and Sheila. You know uh Chief Dylan wanted to just you know, just uplift that I lived in a rent, stabilized apartment when I lived in New York for 10 years, and that was what was able to keep me um living in West Harlem for for 10 years, and so there is something to be said about how other cities across the country have managed to um keep rent control as one of the tools in their toolkit to keep people in um stabilize and I.

I

Think that Boston, you know we are going back to the way things used to be if you will, but the way things used to be really helped a lot of folks out right, and so this is one of those things that we need to really uplift and understand that this moment is calling for us to be a little bit more I'm, going to end with a little bit more. um The way, I started more aggressive and a little bit Bolder I mean pushing the envelope.

I

If we're really serious about rent stabilizing and keeping residents here, then we need to be Unapologetic about what this moment looks like and not just go in with what we believe the state house um will approve, but I think with what this moment is calling for and I think that these are the moments for us to not shy away from a good fight. If you will, um because we've been at this for a far too long and I just want you to know that we need to uh be here and then I.

I

Just think that you know smaller landlords will not be impacted because they are except and I think that that's awesome, um but I I do know that our elders have been blowing up our phones. If you will really concerned about how this is going to impact them. So I do appreciate you providing that Insight here on the record for us um and did you address the question that I had earlier in regards to uh the 15 year year? Situation: I, don't remember that being addressed! That I asked during my opening remarks.

P

I'm, sorry, counselor, could you do you quick? Do you mind asking again very quickly so.

I

The question was around the fact that you know in the um in the piece of legislation that you are proposing. There really is no um I'm just trying to understand why development new developments are exempt for 15 years and the mayor's proposal, or you know why the you know why we believe that development should also be accountable in the solution around stabilizing the rents, and we want to understand.

I

You know why um a 15-year extension was proposed I, just if you did mention that I I need it to be more explicit, so that I can understand. Why.

P

I got Tim, you start and then I'll finish thanks.

Q

Certainly, certainly, uh the reason why 15 years from this proposed was in order to not Shield development, and it is uh the timeline. In other words, what developers are looking for in their timeline is generally 10 to 15 years is what they're looking for in making their decision, whether to build or not built, and so they would know that over that first period of the ownership of the building that this policy would not be effective for them.

I

Right, thank you. Councilor Arroyo, chair um and the in the administration. I will not be labeled with the point or continue to hog up any time. There's a lot of folks who have their hands up. Thank you.

E

Thank you and I just want to remind mollies. We have multiple panels coming and we have Community comments. So uh I appreciate folks keeping to the time as they have been uh it's going to be a counselor uh Braden uh and then we'll go down in order of arrival. uh We'll continue to do that. Council of Braden.

J

um Thank you, Mr chair, um the the breakdown of the um this is excellent, and I really appreciate your um your work on presenting this spreadsheet.

J

um The one question we had really was is there: is it possible to get a better breakdown? uh It says the total um number of uh rental units is 230 000, like 231 000 approximately um with, um and that 40 000 around 40 000 of them would be exempt.

J

um Is it possible you know, by our next working session, to get a better breakdown of what sort of breakdown of those numbers to get a better understanding of what type of housing units we're talking about it?

J

Is it single families, two families, three families, apartment small apartment, buildings, mid-sized or you know, bigger apartment, buildings of 100 plus because it's really difficult, because the the Tendencies and the and the ownership of those units will vary dramatically according to the the size of the units, and it would be better to help us get a better understanding of of what units we're talking about when we think about all of this, um and then also I really appreciate it.

J

If we could get some of that information by District as well, uh because um no no none of our districts are separate, we we all have such a varied uh sort of um landscape when it comes to tenancies and types of types of rentals that we have some buildings like Alston Brighton, we have a lot of big apartment buildings, so it's a different sort of story than perhaps West Roxbury, so that would be helpful um and then the um I'm just curious about the the uh issue about the 15-year exemption.

J

Did you folks play around with the 10-year exemption on the you know, five-year exemption is and to find The Sweet Spot, like the 15-year exam exemption exemption, seems long from from my perspective. But um what? What did the? um What did the 10-year exemption look like um and then also you know landing on the the price index plus six percent? How did we end up with six percent um and, as was there any thought given to averaging it over the past like five years or something like that or I'm?

J

Just trying to figure out the rationale for how we ended up was six percent for a total of ten. All together and um yeah, so those are my main questions just now.

P

Yeah so I I believe and I'm I'm looking at Tim Tim and his team can hopefully get um what units are covered and what units are Exempted by by neighborhoods. So we'll let we'll work on that and get back to you with what we. What we have um see I think it's a very good question: CPI plus six um and one of the one of the main pieces of data and information that we looked at was what is the market doing in neighborhood by neighborhood and the CPI plus six represents a rent increase.

P

That is, that is just uh more than what we've been seeing the market. The responsible Market do like when we average what the increases have been uh CPI plus six is slightly greater than, but we know it is less than when, when landlords, and especially when properties change hands, when rent increases get very, very, very large when they, when they double when they triple when they get much more than their, the tenants can afford.

P

So we tried to be once again: we really tried to find the balance between allowing the market to proceed, allowing the market to build encouraging new development and housing stock while at the same time not going beyond what we're seeing in the market.

P

um Tim I, don't know if you have anything to add, but it was you know. So it's just there's not a there's, not an exact science, but we felt it was a very reasonable approach. Well,.

Q

I I think to answer I think thank you that I think that answer completed most of it I think. For one part, we didn't answer with as much about the 15 years 15 years, you might kind of say the 15 years kind of a standard practice amongst many of these policies. We have also seen 20 years, so we obviously looked at 20 years as well, so we'll continue to take into consideration whether a 10-year window would also be appropriate.

J

And do you have information about turnover like in in this District, like um I Echo, a consular flowers, remarks about student, Tendencies and and their colleges that we have a turnover every year? Do we have do we have some data on like just a changeover of tendencies in different neighborhoods, like I, again think in the neighborhood like ours, where Tendencies change every year?

J

um It's just going to be a steady March upward in terms of the cost and I know we talk about the market rate, but if every of every uh landlord does the same, then you know the market. Only uh you you get the the crowding effect that everyone will end up doing the same thing. So um that's a concern. It will just keep marching upward and not actually um and incentivize. Further speculative investment in our neighborhoods, rather than actually saying, hang on a minute.

J

A housing is not a commodity that you can just cash in and make a huge amount of money on that. We have to try and stabilize and provide housing, that's affordable for folks and and have a predictable path so that they know that um you know a predictable path of an increase of 10 when you're red, when your earnings doesn't increase by 10, is not necessarily a very a very um uh reassuring. Prospect.

Q

So, in terms of data about turnover it's fairly limited what's available now there is the the American Community survey asks a question about whether you were in the same property the year before, which is kind of the closest thing that we can look at. I know that that's a fairly high percentage uh in order to Performance I'm, going to give you exact number it's fairly high percentage in student neighborhoods um and uh than it is in most other neighborhoods.

Q

The beauty of this initiative is that, as we start to expand the rental registry and get more information from landlords, we will start to get more information about turnovers and that will help us to understand the impact of the program as well.

J

um Thank you, let's see, um I think I'm doing for time. Mr chair.

E

Because you're at about five minutes but I, want to make sure that folks get their questions in.

J

Yeah, that's fine. I I hold my next questions on them. Thank you. Let someone else have a turn. Thank.

E

You councilor Brighton councilor Coletta. uh You are next followed by Council uh Worrell.

L

Thank you, chair and I just want to thank uh Chief, Dylan and Tim for your work on this Tim. This is the first time that I'm here you might be leaving us. So just congratulations and thank you for your service to the city of Boston.

L

It really is remarkable what you've been able to do during your your career, so I just wanted to say thank you and, in anticipation of this discussion um to start from a place of facts and data, I requested the estimated number of housing units covered under this proposal in my district and you all provided a very thorough breakdown of new construction exemptions, number of units built before 2007 owner occupancy exemptions, and all of that, so just thank you and I do appreciate the points brought up by my colleagues as it relates to student, housing and turnover I wish.

L

We had better access to data on that, but hopefully this proposal will address that and then specifically as it relates to the 15-year exemption.

L

I have concerns with reading 15 plus years and I've already discussed this with the admin just because we just separately needs stability now, and we have seen exponential growth within the last five years in East Boston, so I have requested additional data from the administration just for all of us to be able to review what 10-year versus 15-year exemptions look like and to have those numbers updated to include projects in the pipeline quote unquote from Loi to coo that captures projects like something downs.

L

We have about 8 000 units coming down the pike, and so thinking about that long term.

L

We really can't wait 15 years to have those sort of protections, so I do appreciate the back and forth and I look forward to reviewing that data when it comes in the the question that I have and I do have several just depending on my time we've been talking about the psychology of of developers and thinking about somebody who would be affected in this moment say we are successful with this proposal, if I'm, anticipating my 14 year old property to now fall under these regulations next year, I think and I I'm unsure, but I'm.

L

Pretty sure that this is uh where landlords would go. But I would attempt to raise my rents. It's the maximum rental price that the market allows in order to to lock that in so have we thought about how we might protect against these exorbitant increases for for year 14 and how we can dissuade Property Owners from doing that.

P

I, don't think we've looked at a particular year. I understand your I understand your your concern like like in year, 14 like well.

P

What what might we anticipate a landlord doing, um I I think it's an interesting question: I'm going to give it some thought: um Tim I, don't know if you have anything to add, but I have we haven't I I think we have been concerned that at certain points in time that that a landlord might look to, you know, increase rents to the maximum that they can, um and that is why we've been interested in having, as I mentioned earlier.

P

Red stabilization happen at some point um or be triggered by some date in the past, not in the future. But um Let me give that some thought we'd appreciate that question.

R

L

Thank you, Chief um I think the other.

L

The other part of this is that a large majority of District one's housing stock is non-owner occupied properties with six or fewer units, I'm thinking about the triple Deckers that we all know and love in Eagle, Hill and Jeffrey's Point, those largely affected um by the Blue Line portfolio, protected by the blue one portfolio rather- and these are tenants who are predominantly from our our immigrant communities- and they they need the protections uh more so than anybody, and so I do know that this rent stabilization proposal will not cover that.

L

But it has been mentioned that the condo conversion regulations will capture this property. So for those listening in, can you describe what protections are allowed to us through condo conversion and how we can expect those tenants to be protected in the interim.

Q

Certainly, I I think it's important to clarify for the audience and and that that I heard the question right that um non-owner occupied two three four family houses would be covered by rent stabilization.

Q

um It's only the owner occupied ones that we thought in terms of condo conversions.

Q

um We are aware that a lot of the chronometers that we've seen now are actually in three family houses um and the question around the conduct. Conversions is also one is that we don't want owners or properties to convert their buildings to condos. In order to get out of that, stabilization I mean that's. Why, on on uh absentee-owned condos are also covered by this by this proposal, so they would be covered as well, so that Oscar lowers the reason why an owner might want to convert to a condo, but the kind of conversion itself.

Q

Currently the ordinance says that it is only for properties with four or more units that have been built before in 1983..

Q

So that's a lot of buildings that are not covered by the current chronic conversion ordinance and the reason why it is linked to those dates is that is actually linked to the original rent State, the rent control laws of the 1970s and 80s. That was not actually eliminated by the rent control um the vote in 1994..

Q

So that's why we still have that, but it needs to be updated to include those properties and the what tenants, who are currently covered by the conduct and virgin ordinance they get if they are low income, which means.

N

Less than 80.

Q

Percent of area meeting, in this case elderly or disabled, that they have a five-year notice and they also have a fifteen thousand dollar relocation payment um and for tenants that don't meet those criteria. They have a one year notice and a ten thousand dollar relocation I mean that is managed through a permit process through our office and inspectional services department, so we'd be able to expand that to a property types.

L

L

Mentioned maybe put some Provisions um directly into this proposal, so that's something that I look forward to talking through and will reserve my uh remaining questions for the next round. Thank you, chair.

E

Thank you, councilor Coletta, uh we'll be going to counselor Worrell, followed by uh councilor Lara, followed by councilor Luigi.

M

uh Thank you, chair Royal, thank you, Chief Dylan um and thank you to Tim of all your years of service to the city of Boston.

M

um I have two questions, and my first question is uh the whole room petition is based on.

M

You know: policies from Oregon and California like what were some uh metrics data that we wanted to see replicated here in Boston that that we saw going well in Oregon, Oregon and California, and then my other question is: is there um a possibility um to put inside of this Homewood petition a two-year study, a five-year study, just a just, so we can analyze like the impacts uh of of this policy on you know, what's doing for this in times finding out into in fighting displacement and stabilizing communities and see what it's doing um on our real estate market.

P

I think well, I'll start Tim, I, think we're very, very interested in in studying the impacts of this policy and any policy that we enact um whether it goes into this actual home rule or whether it can be part of the ordinance that would also tie the administration to doing that. We could certainly discuss but um I think that is a a very, very good idea. Tim, do you want to comment on the overall some of the overall cities and states that we looked at.

Q

Certainly um and I think it's important to note that both the Oregon and California laws are are relatively new, so we're still kind of like on a wait and see, but those were both also intended to be kind of like very broad um anti-gouging kind of uh programs, rather than um the strict kind of you know, tight, rent control systems that they have in some of their cities. For example, San Francisco's policy, which is an older one, is more stringent and more stringent than the Statewide.

Q

So that's why we were looking at those Statewide policies seemed to be more in line with our intent to address uh anti-gouging and the most extreme rent increases, rather than tight controller Market. That may lead to a lack of human development.

M

uh Thank you, chip, uh Chief Dylan and uh thank you Tim and no further questions. Counselor chair, Royal thank.

E

You uh Council Burrell I'm gonna, go to uh counselor Lara uh and then uh counselor Lewin.

N

Thank you chair and thank you to everyone for um their questions and Tim. uh Thank you. So much for your work. You've been incredibly helpful to me while I've been on the council, so I'm really grateful uh so I have a few general questions and then I have questions that are about the language that are actually in the homo petition and please bear with me. I have obviously spent a lot of time reviewing, and so my questions might be your granular uh and trying to get us to the things.

N

So one of the things that we've seen on the formal petition specifically is that it allows for vacant, city control and I. Think other people have asked about this already and what that means is that landlords can set the rents at whatever rate they choose once someone moves out or is evicted.

N

um So basically, the cap that we are setting only applies when a lease is being renewed. So can you talk a little bit about why we are going in the direction of incentivizing evictions and Lease non-renewals? uh With this one will petition.

Q

Oh, please Tim go ahead. No I was going to say that um it's it's precisely because we want to avoid. You know um evictions that for really no reason at all that we are including the just cause eviction protections. I, think that these are essential things to the policy to assure that they're, a stable stability for our tenants.

Q

um We also as a city, are supporting efforts to increase Council uh for those receiving looking at eviction. So it's kind of like it's that's one, more effort that we're looking at that's outside of this particular effort to make sure that tenants get all the protections and the services.

Q

N

Sorry Sheila go ahead before I. Ask my follow-up question. No.

P

Go ahead, that's fine.

N

So in section three, where you talk about just cause eviction in section 3E, it specifically says that the owner shall not receive or recover possession of a leased unit within the residential dwelling. Unless the housing court has passed.

H

Stop the focus on getting honest because it's literally driving it wasn't.

J

I was just walking out the door and one just.

S

Asking yeah we don't have one phone, so Ellie.

E

Whoever has host capabilities. Can you include mute counselor, Murphy.

N

Thank you, chair and I hope that I will get my time back um and so in three e, the tenant. It says that the um the owner shall not recover possession unless the housing court finds that the tenant who had written Lisa agreement agreement, which is terminated or his attendant at will, has refused to request or Demand by the owner. The execute a written extension or renewal thereof, the lease for a further term like duration, and so this is the section that I have a question about.

N

It says at a rental rate that does not exceed the percentage set by the city of Boston. So are you saying that if, let's say a landlord wants to raise the rent to the 10 limit um or whatever CPI plus six percent is at the time and the Tenant says, I can't afford that rent increase that now becomes um just cause for eviction.

P

So the so the the landlord at the end of a lease term right, we are the way that this policy is is drafted is that the landlord can increase.

N

No, the landlord can only increase if the person who is the unit is a new person not with the same person living there, but with the same person living there.

N

They can go up to the Limit, but if I say I can't afford whatever 6p CPI plus six percent is and we're saying that we're using just cause eviction to protect people from being displaced, um so that landlords can benefit from in setting a new setting a new market rate rent then you're, creating in this section, where the inability to pay for the increase now becomes a just cause for eviction.

N

Not not only makes that a moot point, but it also doesn't allow us to protect people in court, because, when you're protecting a no-fault eviction, it's completely different than your. When you're, when you're fighting against an at-fault eviction and so I think that's the tricky thing with just cause is that you have to create a list.

N

You have to Define what just cause is and so by including this sentence here we are defining just cause as the inability to afford or refusal to pay for the increase that is CPI, plus six percent, which I think is too high and I'll get to that. So it's I'm just trying to figure out if there is a hole here.

P

I I, don't see a hole, I mean I, I, don't see a hole um it. It does not allow a landlord to say you need to go or I'm going to double your rent like a landlord, can no longer do that to to get a unit back, but they can within you know, after one year they are able to to increase the rents. According to uh this legislation,.

N

What I need, if we're talking you know, because all the conversations that we've been having here are about: how do we not slow down development? The psychology of the developers protecting the thing I'm I'm here to talk about the renters.

N

So what I need, which is fine, is that if there is a rent increase, that is up to the 10 or wherever the city has said, that that is still considered a no-fault eviction, so I need the language to be clear that that is not an at fault eviction, because it matters to how we protect people in housing court.

N

So this is not about arguing whether or not a landlord can kick someone out it's about how we designate a no-fault versus an at fault eviction when the increase in rent and the inability to pay the increase in rent is the reason why the tenant is not renewing the lease or can't um remove lease.

N

P

Let me let me see if I can um repeat it back to you, my understanding of what you just said so you're saying that the the just cause eviction section of the legislation would include.

P

um uh If, if a tenant wasn't able to pay an increase, then the landlord wouldn't have they couldn't use the rent increase to. They couldn't use the inability to pay as a reason to halt.

N

Yeah and the reason why I'm saying that is, you know like perfect example: you talked about Tim talked a little bit earlier and shared um about the CPI plus six percent, and you use the number Tim of 7.9 percent have wages in the city of Boston increased by that much on a yearly basis.

P

They haven't, you think you know so I think we'd be glad to take that back to Legal I. Think it's it. You know I'd like to be able to process that internally and talk to Legal um as part of this process. Thank.

N

You, okay, thank you! That's that's helpful and so I want to I want to go into the CPI plus six percent and so I'm just going to move into the the section um two which is just talking about the local rent regulations.

N

So I want to clarify the exemptions in section two. First, so we're accepting owner occupied properties with six unit or less um now. We often consider this to be protections for Triple Decker, Triple Decker owners, which I support, but still I. Don't think that you can occupy two properties simultaneously. So under this legislation, does the landlord occupying one Triple Decker also exempt the second property.

Q

No, it would not, it would only accept the property they actually live in.

N

Got it if the landlord says owns a building with six units and lives in the building, then it does correct, correct.

N

um So I share similar concerns about the 15-year exemption, as my Council colleague shared, but my question is focused on Section the part section 2 um six, which well eight six. Can you talk a little bit about why we're accepting conversion conversion from one use to another so like if a building was commercial and now it's being used for housing? Can you talk a little bit about what your considerations were in making the decision to exempt that.

Q

um It's it's in line with the notion that we would um it's in line with the notion that we would exempt new construction, because it also is very expensive to convert a non-residential use to a residential use. So that's why we included those conversions um in the exemption.

N

Got it so you're con you're, considering conversion from one use to another as new construction, and that's why it's included there correct.

Q

From non-residential to residential now, if it's from um con, if it's from rental to condo I mean or if it's some kind of condo conversion situation, that would not be part. That would not be a conversion under that rule.

N

Okay and now I want to clarify something for the record, mostly because I I have issues with the CPI plus six percent, and and this is the reason why now Sheila and Tim in your presentation, you shared a little you shared, and the word that you use was slightly that the CPI plus six percent was slightly more than the Citywide average or what we've seen the Citywide average in rentcreases be from. But from what I know from 2007 to 2020, the Citywide average for CPI was CPI, plus two percent, which would be 3.9 per year.

N

So a CPI plus six percent that would bring us to 7.9 is double not a slight increase and he's Boston, the CPI or CPI plus three percent in terms of the average rent increase. That would bring us to 4.9 percent total, that's more than 80 percent. So so the when you say that CPI plus six percent is slightly more than have what we've seen the average rent increase happen in the city of Boston. It's inaccurate, and not only is it inaccurate.

N

It's inaccurate in the neighborhoods like East Boston, where people are going to be impacted the most it's actually far off and I've said this to the administration and I've said this publicly and I'm going to say this here we are not giving people a limit, we are giving them an allowance when you present housing and all of the conversations that we're having here today have made it very obvious that we're trying to protect profit while also trying to protect people's right to have a roof over their head.

N

What you end people people are going to do what they can to make as much profit as possible, and so we are CPI. Plus six percent is not slightly more than the city-wide average. It's double almost double from 2007 to 2020. It is almost double of what we've seen um the city-wide average increase and it's 80 more for places like East Boston. So for me, the CPI plus six percent is untenable.

N

It's not a direction that I would like to move in, um and those are the reasons why, even throughout this conversation, I still I don't see a good reason for it and besides the fact that we think the state legislature would be friendlier to CPI, plus six percent, and so is this home will petition for the state legislature. Is it for the real estate or are we trying to see do what's best for the people in our city who are ultimately being displaced, um and so that's less of a question.

N

I'm sure I mean you can you're free to respond to that, however, you may, but it's CPI, plus six percent is identical to me in terms of moving this whole competition out of the city council.

P

Yeah and I do appreciate your your thoughts and opinions on this counselor when I looked at the rents I'm also including rents from last year, which you know Craigslist, had on average a 16 other metrics have 12., so I was doing a slightly different average than you've been using, but I'd be glad to get those over with you and I think you know for myself.

P

um It's I think it's less for me and others about than just looking at profit and more about really wanting to encourage Supply, because our housing I really believe that, while we need tenant protections and we needed them yesterday, we really do need increased Supply against. You know a range of incomes, including market. So we do want to make sure that market housing continues to be built in the city. But I do appreciate your.

N

Comments no I agree fully and I think that, for me there are a number of Provisions inside this homework position that help us do that. The 15-year limit right, there's the the the exemptions, the long list of exemptions that we're putting in here the 15-year limit. There are things here that are already meant um to make sure that we're not depressing production and all things that I am willing to be supportive of if the CPI plus six percent cap is in alignment with what we're actually seeing in the city.

N

Like all of these things, that I think are issues right. That I have questions about, saying hey! This is what we can get done. This is what's going to pass at the State House I am willing to do that, but CPI plus six percent, with all of the other Provisions that we that are included in the homo petition to make sure that we're not depressing um Development and Construction is a bridge. I think A, Bridge, Too Far.

N

um For me, and in terms of using the 2022 you know, the rents up to 2022 in 2021 was the year where the city of Boston actually clocked in a decrease in the average rents and part of that was because of covet, and so when you're, including 2022 I, think we can assume that that is a year when a lot of landlords and a lot of developers were raising rents to try to make up for that lost revenue from the Dip in rents that we saw in 2021 and so I'm, not sure that it's even appropriate for us to use the numbers after 2020.

N

Because of how destabilized the market has been uh because of the Copa 19 pandemic. But I'm happy to talk more about that. The CPI plus six percent is really the the point for me. It's really really the the point and chair I know that I'm, probably on my time but I have one last question.

E

Past your time, but I'll give you your one, your one question.

N

Actually, no I will I will pass it on, because I can ask you this is this was about the Justified section um and we've already gotten to that before I got down my list, so I will leave it there. Thank you, chair.

E

Thank you very much uh counselor uh Louis Jen and then uh counselor Flaherty. If your hand is up for a second round, I will go to you.

O

Thank you there um and I want to thank uh add to the course of folks thinking uh Tim for all of your work on this issue and on so many other issues and for your service to the city.

O

um We know that this work is not easy and that you're getting pulled from many sides uh when it comes to trying to craft what works best for City residents and so I think you I also loved hearing that um we are still going to be pushing for right to council as an attorney who has spent a lot of time in Boston Housing Court, trying to protect tenants from evictions I think it's incredibly important that we sort of try to balance out the powers, asymmetry that exists in Housing Court when it comes to landlords who are often um uh well resourced, with with attorneys and with representation versus tenants who are not and I say this as a daughter of a landlord who is not well resourced.

O

Who only has one property um or childhood property but know that in general um that our tenants are really uh tend to be at a disadvantage? My first question again: I'm repeating that I think. um Having seen this in Housing Court have taken the calls from from tenants who experience no fault. Evictions um I'm, really encouraged by the just cause. Eviction section.

O

I do have a question about section 3i, which is the um where I picked out the exemptions for Just Cause eviction, and it says where the owner seeks to recover possession for any other just cause, provided that his or her purpose is not in conflict with the provisions and purposes of said chapter 93a of this section, so um 93a being unfair and deceptive practices. Is it our intent to outline what we mean by for any other just cause, rather than leaving it open-ended I think it. You know, um having exemptions in there.

O

We're moving in family is good, but oftentimes. We can we see that as a smoke screen, and we can see just any um any other just cause as a smoke screen for wanting to really get the tenants out to get new tenants in, especially especially if we have vacancy d control, which is something I'll get to later. But is it our intent to really tease out what we mean by for any other just cause, rather than allowing it to be an open-ended? You know pick a pick out of the Hat.

O

What your would just cause might be for you to push out push out and destabilize um a tenancy.

P

Tim I, don't know if you have anything to say here, but you know I was rereading this this morning. If, if it's uh okay with you, counselor I'd like to talk to Legal about this particular clause and get back to back to you all, I mean it's it's. It is important sometimes to have General language in, but I understand that that also can, um can um you know produce worry. So if it's all right with you, I'd like to look at talk to legal counsel here about this particular Clause. Thank.

O

You um Tim I, don't know if you wanted to hop in.

Q

O

With Shiva on that point, Thank you thank you yeah I, just don't you want to you want to make it flexible enough right, but you also don't want to make it too flexible for folks who are creative and have money to think about what are the just?

O

What are other causes that they can't say, isn't a just cause for me to get people out so I just want us to I want to ensure that we're being really careful there, um but I I think that I think that we could tease that out to be more uh protective of tenants.

O

um My next question I think uh councilor Bach asked this and it's been repeated. um I'm also I think that this is just one of the things that we need to do to make sure that we are pretending, protecting tenants um and and preventing uh destabilize, further destabilizing of our communities. It is not the only thing that we should be doing. uh We do need to be um make sure that we are encouraging more production of housing, especially the production of affordable housing. I think that also oftentimes get gets lost in the sauce right.

O

The type of housing that we want to um encourage is ones that are residents our bostonians, our working class residents, um who haven't seen, um increases in their wages, who are often the victims of wage stagnation. How are we building housing for them? So I want us to encourage that the 15-year the 15-year going forward to me that makes sense and Sheila you and I have already discussed this and I think Tim as well. It's that, if you could provide more clarity around why we need to have that 15-year.

O

Looking back because to me that is a P, that is a a a point of angst. I understand the 15-year looking forward, but the why we would want to apply this retroactively is um is a bit uh unsettling for me.

P

I hear you, you know, I think that is something that we've we've heard a lot today. So I'd like to take that back as well and really look at it and I can't agree more um with you about the production of an increased. You know, housing, especially affordable, housing and and um I think we're doing pretty much everything that we can.

P

uh You know making land available and money available and trying to get transfer fee passed for those additional resources and taking units out of the speculative Market, et cetera, et cetera, so um we're just going to keep at it. But you know I think we would all agree until we can build enough, affordable housing or housing at every level to house our residents. We really do need some common sense protections for our tenants, but let's I I would, if it's if it's okay, I would like to. You know just really take this 15-year.

P

uh Look back uh issue back to back to the internal team and and um and get back to you and uh councilor Arroyo.

O

Thank you and I. Thank you because I know this is something we've discussed before and I just think.

O

If we are going to offer it to the public as something that we want in this in this in this homo petition, I think that we need to just have uh our whys need to be strong, stronger than I think they are right now um and then um my bid is I know that we're trying to move away from this word or this, um but with vacancy d control, it seems as though um that it's it's an all or nothing either we have rent, Caps or um tenant turnover when there's tenant turnover, there's a complete Market reset, which could lead to rent gouging for that new tenant and so I'm wondering if there's a middle ground that would allow for a more gradual approach.

O

I would discourage rent gouging on the next tenant um I under I. Think we've talked about this before this could be what we're talk this could this could be the difference between run, stabilization and actually rent control, but I think that it's important for us to also be preventing rent gouging to the next tenant right for not to not allow for free for all for whoever is coming in next. So is there?

O

Do you see a happy medium, our way of us uh achieving something that that is short of of the of the cap, but not a complete free-for-all.

Q

So I'll address sort of you know the use of language here and that you know when we were using the term vacancy d control, which is kind of what a lot of cities use to term. This particular aspect of a policy people were misunderstanding: that it meant that once like your tenant, a you're in the unit when you leave it goes to Market and then tenant B, the new tenant doesn't get any protections.

Q

So that's what some people thought vacancy be controlled math and that's why we've kind of moved to using the term Market reset, because that tenant the new tenant may be paying Market rent initially, but then they would be protected by the rent stabilization policy going forward. So they come on to clarify that there is that intent. I think your question is also asking: is there sort of a middle ground it's kind of like okay? They can um I they can, instead of instead of the 10 cap.

Q

Maybe they can go 15 for the new tenant, but there's a limit there as well. I. Think that's the question. Yes, yes, okay, that's not part of this particular available, but I'm sure we can continue to discuss.

P

I I would the only thing I would add, is that I think a new tenant coming in and looking for an apartment, right, they're going to look for something that they can afford and a landlord is going to take them in um with some analysis, they can pay the rent, so um there'll be other units, we're building a lot of affordable housing, there'll be other units and if that unit doesn't isn't affordable to them at that moment in time, they would seek other units that that may be so.

P

um It's it's I I feel like when we use the term rent gouging it's more about existing tenants, at least in this legislation than it is new tenants seeking a new, a new apartment, a new opportunity.

O

Yeah I understand that Chief I I just I'm concerned about sort of what the what a landlord may try to do to sort of maximize the rent if they, for example, had were not content with the rent that they were receiving and I mean if we let the market just play out right. The this is a market intervention because what's been happening on, the market has been squeezing too many of our families and pushing too many of them out, and when you allow for an area, that's not regulated.

O

We may see the same things that we've been trying to dissuade um that this policy is trying to dissuade just in the 45, that's not protected by by this policy. So I I, that's it's a it's! A concern of mine that I just wanted to to put out there. I guess chair, do I have time for another question, but.

E

Yeah I want to make sure we we have the administration, then we have a couple panels and then we have uh folks coming in uh from a community standpoint of that. If you have questions for for the administration, because they are here before us now, I I want to make sure folks have the ability to ask those questions.

E

um I will be very brief in my questions and I see that we have Council Flaherty for a second pass. So if you have a question counselor Louisiana that you want to ask, please do okay,.

O

And then um I'll I'll, let this be my last one, because I want to make sure we have time for our community Advocates and others who have really been pushing on this as well.

O

um It's around the CPI plus six percent limit So, based on the data that you showed Tim in the last 10 years that uh that cap wouldn't have gone above and beyond eight percent. So under the languages, whichever is lower at eight percent, eight eight percent or ten percent I think it was like seven point: nine percent do. Is there an example of a year in which, in recent memory where the cap would have been 10 percent.

O

Tim I think you're on me.

Q

Yes, for this last year we would have been 10 and I believe the only other year was I'd have to look at the data around 2008 I think there was another year there that 10 would have been the cap, but in most years it would be more like the seven to eight percent that we were seeing another year.

O

Yeah so I I think my my question is the research that went behind that and like for me it's about what what leads to a change in tenant Behavior? What is the cliff? What is the clip point at which I as a tenant say that I can't afford this rent increase? We get these questions all the time, I get them all the time in my office. uh What can I do that I'm experiencing this rent increase either as a resident or as a commercial tenant and I think I.

O

You know, rather than just looking at what other cities and states have done, how we looked at what other, uh like the actual numbers for our residents here in the city of Boston, to see what is behavior changing and what is behavior altering like what what what rent increase.

O

That is because it seems like our real policy, and our real desire here is to not have it is to have the ceiling be somewhere around seven or eight percent or or what we believe the ceiling will be a seven or eight percent, but we're putting in this 10 for reasons that you know I'm, not a hundred percent sure about so wondering, if, like what is the data that went behind sort of this 10 set ceiling versus an eight or seven to eight percent ceiling?

O

um Is it just we're? Looking at what other cities have done? Was it looking at sort of what uh wages are and what uh what will alter Behavior among tenants when they're deciding to either stay or even go to another city or another place where that has has cheaper rents? Did we did we look at that.

P

Tim, you can correct me if I'm wrong, you know you have more of the data sets in your office than I do, but um there is, we don't have any data that says at a certain point. This is going to make it a household move um and I wish we did and I. You know. If we have a better rental registry and we collect more robust data, then we can start seeing some of those Trends.

P

So we don't have that data um I I, like I, said before we did choose CPI plus six, because it it really reflected behavior and activity that was beyond the market. That was really very much so we put it in a category of rent gouging and it was an extreme. It was beyond it was you know, anything's beyond that, were really reflective of landlords acting outside the market and typically properties, changing hands and speculation.

P

So that's. That is how we approach this, um but we I wish. We had great data that we could say this is this? Would stop a trend or this it would. You know, keep people in their home, but without data doesn't exist, Tim I. Don't know if you have anything else to add no I think that's I think the limits of data. Sometimes we have very good data, but sometimes we just we can't collect what doesn't exist.

O

Thank you I appreciate that I think we could probably learn a lot from housing court records um from um different Community or organizations. I think that could it could be really helpful for us to sort of know what is behavioral altering I know what can what Alters Behavior based on what I get?

O

You know the anecdotal data I get from members of my staff, who tell me that they're facing a rent increase from constituents and residents who say I'm facing a rent increase and I can't pay this um again like we're thinking about, run stabilization and red gouging uh this you know it makes the numbers more understandable, but if we're also thinking about, like you know at what point, do people start to leave? I think that that would be good I understand? We don't have that data, but it would be really good for us to have. So.

O

uh Thank you for these initial questions. I'm gonna see seed my time. Thank you, Sheila and Tim for working so hard on this, um and thank you, Mr chair for giving allowing me probably to go over I'm, not sure, but.

E

Yeah, you didn't give back uh any time all.

O

Right. I'm. Sorry, sorry, lots.

E

Of questions on this one I I appreciate it. I'm gonna go to a second round. I want to just get my quick question in because it might require uh it's just one question a lot of things that I've had to ask were asked. uh It might take you guys, looking some stuff up, but how many rental units do we actually have in the city of Boston and how many rental units would actually be impacted by this legislation day.

E

One those those are my two questions is we can get those numbers so I understand sort of what the the scope of our rental uh units in the city of Boston are and then how many are actually impacted by this legislation, because it has that 15-year, look back, which I have the same concerns other folks have, but it also has small homeowner, like small landlord exceptions, and it has uh lived on property exceptions, so I want to make sure that I have some sense of what we're actually looking at from the scope of how many rental units we have in the city and then how many this actually impacts.

E

So I'm, assuming you might have to look those up. So if you can look those up for no, you have them I.

Q

I have a counselor.

D

Q

Go so there's approximately 231 000 renter units in the in the city at this time and of those about 127 000 would be covered by the policy. That's 55 percent of all gun changes.

E

So, basically, even with the 15-year look back, that's like going back in time and forward in front, even with those exceptions, it's still only impacting about 55 of properties.

Q

55 of the rental units- yes, okay,.

E

And then uh my other point to this uh question um when we're talking about that 15-year sort of activation time, um I have a similar concern to counselor Coletta, which is what stops that person from accelerating their rents. uh Knowing that they're about to come under this right, so making sure that we have some kind of uh process there and then just so. We know what the beginning of that 15-year time frame is. Is that shovels in the ground, or is that doors open.

Q

Doors open, okay,.

E

And so that's those are the questions that I have on that front. I'm going to do a second round now, uh please lower your hand. If you don't want second round questions, but I'm gonna go to counselor Michael Flaherty.

G

Thank you, Mr chair, very grateful everything to follow up on our colleague city council. um Let's see luigien on maybe the next uh hearing or uh panel or working session, we invite someone uh from Housing Court uh just to maybe give us a sense as to what potentially we could expect. If this is implemented in uh and what they have to say, it would be great to get their opinion, but really more as a follow-up. um You know we all have a shared responsibility here, and um you always mentioned that.

G

You know wages, wages have been stagnant and rents have gone up in some areas have doubled and just want to make sure that landlord's, particularly good landlords, are not being vilified in this process because, in addition to wages being stagnant in rents, increasing and the demand put on our city um with economic development, that is happening here uh that you know, unlike other cities outside or bigger, we've experienced significant economic growth which has put the crunch on our communities and our renters, but there's also uh additional facts whereby um property taxes and many neighborhoods have doubled.

G

Over the last several years. Repair costs have increased, Insurance costs, have increased, there's been supply chain issues trying to find Reliable and dependable contractors. Energy costs have increased, we obviously we pass Berto energy, efficient upgrades or repairs are also very costly, so just want to make sure that you know we're looking at the whole picture, I assume the chief and Tim have factored in those issues as well. When sort of sitting down and putting together.

G

You know some some calculations that, in addition to stagnant wages, in addition to increased rents, we've also seen increased costs, put Upon, Our landlords and again I'm, focusing on our good landlords, not our gouges, those that are Community conscious and that want to be respectful to tenants and understanding that um that the role that they play in our communities and so uh I guess some dots from the chief. You know Tim as to if you're looking at this whole thing and to be fair um and to have an honest discussion.

G

I assume that you factored in um the significant increase of property taxes to landlords, you've, increa you've looked at the increases to Insurance costs, repair cost, Berto, environmental and energy efficient upgrades that uh we we as a city are requiring landlords to to engage in it and then you've come up with the formula that you or the administration thinks is sort of a fair number, so I guess just to touch on the methodology behind the CPI plus the six. If you would um and thank you Mr chair.

P

So I would just say very briefly, counselor that um we believe that the CPI plus six would allow owners of properties small and large to um to meet the the cost of running their their properties right. We believe that that gives them the revenue that they can pay all of their all of their operating costs and still have enough noi net operating income to service their debt.

P

So we believe that this is a that that expenses can be met with CPI, plus six, even less than that I mean usually when we're underwriting um an affordable housing costs, don't they vary a little bit from market rate. They don't have all the amenities, but we're typically seeing expenses increase by three percent. You know a year, so we think CPI plus six. You know owners can certainly meet their obligations.

G

P

Q

I was just going to add that we do have as part of the provisions is this. If there's some extraordinary circumstance, then the landlord can appeal to the Run forward for a change. So that's that's, that's a and that would be a case-by-case situation. Okay,.

G

Thank you thanks Tim. Thank you.

E

Thank you, councilor Flaherty uh I see counselor Flynn, uh then I'll go to counselor Braden, then I will go to actually sorry. I will go to counselor Flynn councilor Mejia, then Council Braden, uh councilor Flynn.

B

Thank you. Thank you, Mr chair and my question is to to Sheila Sheila with many residents in Boston um having Section 8 uh vouchers. Can you explain generally um what impact this would have on them? um If any, and um would it encourage more Section, 8 vouchers or less Section 8? Or do you have a do? You have an idea of just generally speaking about the impact on Section 8.

Q

So I'll answer that um those with Section 8 vouchers uh would be because they're being charged 30 of their income towards rent. um Even if the oh total rent goes up, they still pay that certain amount.

Q

That's why we exempting those units, so in fact it probably would um it would actually encourage some landlords to take Section, 8 vouchers, I believe uh because they would have a little bit more freedom to set their rent according to the small area fmrs or the fmrs, depending upon their program set by the city and the state um and federal government. So they might actually be interested in um and accepting vouchers more often.

B

Thank you Tim and Tim and Sheila, whoever um so the the plan that you proposed, the Maya has proposed several other cities have this plan um that they implemented a plan similar to this I know it's probably too early. I. Think you've mentioned in your opening comments.

B

It's too early to give a view of how they're doing, um but, having said that, is there any any way that we could um learn from any of their mistakes and what they did well also, as they rolled out this program, what what challenges they had in the first 90 days of the first six months, um what what could they have done better, just just generally speaking about that issue,.

P

Yeah one thing that um one thing that we did notice you know: Oregon has CPI plus seven, but they didn't have a cap and you've heard mention uh counselor in the last year, rents in most major cities have have really escalated.

P

So the re- the allowable rent increases last year in Oregon, for instance, where I think it was like 14 and a half percent allowed, not that every landlord did that, but it was allowed so I think having a cap that really you know that that that limits, how much in case CPI we have very unusual CPI year, I think having a cap is extremely important, so that was one takeaway from Oregon California, CPI, plus five, and it's a little more complicated than that.

P

Many of the cities have um uh have have really limited um the the amount that rents can be raised and uh I. Think San. Francisco is 60 of CPI and they're, seeing limited production so I, you know, there's never a perfect correlation between cities, they all have their own variables and their own set of economic conditions, but so I think those are two takeaways Oregon didn't have a cap.

P

We, you know, we are proposing one and then some cities in California they've been uh too aggressive with the rents and they've seen the real estate market uh response. So um I think those are two observations that come to mind: Tim I, don't know if you have any more yeah and I want.

Q

I wanted to add that um well, one I wanted to thank Paige Russo, who um we had on contract with us for a while, who had just moved here from California and Been, instrumental in creating a program in the city of Richmond, California and so I. Think we'll continue to rely on looking to what other cities have been doing, especially those who have newer programs to see how they're implementing them as we do, the implementation, ordinance I think that's that's going to be an important process for us.

Q

I think that it's it's also important to note that, while the the California and Oregon Statewide programs have these higher caps, they also put the onus of it completely on the tenant. The tenant has to be the one to go to court and say: hey I got another rent increase, but because we are at the local level, I hope that we are trying to create a system that combines the the best of the the what the cities have with the intent of the Statewide policies by making sure that we have things like a remport.

Q

We have ways in which tenants can come to a PL of rent increase. That is, that is before you get to the courts. uh Unlike what's set up the California and Oregon so I think that's an important thing for us in creating a Boston specific policy of love.

B

Thank you, shelter and my final question. um What impact, if any, would this have if it's enacted, what impact would it have on neighboring cities or towns next to Boston such as you know, such as Quincy or Chelsea, or or Winthrop or or any of these other neighborhoods, Cambridge or Somerville?

B

um What impact would it have on on us if any um as it relates to what these cities and towns are also doing, they might have a similar program they might not, but does that impact the city of Boston at all, Sheila.

P

A couple of uh just a couple of observations or comments: I, we know that Cambridge and Somerville are very, very interested in having some form of rent stabilization, so um I think that they I know they're watching what is happening here very closely, and if the legislature approved this I'm I'm I I would bet you that they would file something very similar, very, very quickly.

P

You know we we are, we don't. We want developers to both continue to develop in Boston, and we are also very excited when they want to build significant amounts of housing in the region. Right. We have said for a long period of time that Boston can solve the Region's housing problem on their own. So if this you know, we think that this has been designed in such a way that we're going to continue to see growth here, um but that, if developers, some developers wanted to develop large, especially a rental housing outside of Boston.

P

We would welcome that as well. So I don't see a particular downside, counselor and and Us in Boston, leading on this issue.

B

Thank you Sheila. um Thank you. Chairman I also want to acknowledge the professional work Tim you have done over the years. I've worked with you for over six years and you've always been very professional. You've always helped a lot of uh residents in need. So thank you to um thank you to you, Tim, for the great work you've done working for the residents of Boston.

B

um Thank you. Mr, chair.

E

Thank you, councilor Flynn, uh I'm gonna go to uh Council Mejia, then Council Braden.

I

Thank you, chair um I, just want to follow a string of questions here in regards to section 8..

I

um You know, having grown up here in the city of Boston I know those who have benefited the most, not just the people who are our voucher recipients, but then also the landlords who actually don't even live in the city of Boston, but yet are profiting um off of our residents and I'm just curious as you continue to go through this process. You know what are we looking at um whenever when it comes to rent control caps for those landlords who are renting to Section 8, because I know that they also Drive the market?

I

So right now you can get 3 200 for a two bedroom in Dorchester um under Section 8 right and because of that then your next door, neighbor, who wants to be a good landlord, is, is feeling that crunch, so I'm just curious. What if any thought has been given to that? As um as we continue to go through this conversation, and then I'm also just curious, why we keep pointing to Oregon.

I

um As as an example, um you know, Boston is already an an expensive, Urban Market, so I'm just curious kind of like what how we landed there and as Justin as as an FYI um that community in Connecticut is fighting for this and demanding a cap of CPI plus two percent, which is reasonable, since that's the rate renters are growing locally, so I'm just curious kind of what um reactions you have to that and I also want to join the chorus of other folks Tim and congratulating you as you move on, and just thank you in the you know the three years that I've been on the council, I've learned so much and um I really have grown, to see you as a thought leader and someone who's deeply rooted in making sure that affordable housing is truly affordable to all so I just want to say thank you for your leadership in that space and before you go I'm gonna put you in the hot seat.

I

Talk to me about these Section 8 landlords who are driving the markets. I mean what that looks like and how we're going to uh kind of really lean into this really difficult conversation. Many of them do not even live in Boston, but yet are profiting off of the uh the rental market. Right now,.

Q

uh Thank you Council for your compliments and your comments. um I wanted to say that on the Section 8 side of things, um I think that the concern about a Section, 8, rent uh leading the market and obviously I'm talking about what the landlord gets. Not what the tenant has to pay.

Q

um I I understand that that concern I. Think that as we move to what are called small area, uh fair market rents, I think that that better sets I think that's better suited for our neighborhoods, because it is, uh it is more in line with what the rents are in the neighborhood.

Q

So um under Fair market rents, I'm using just a round number here where a landlord might have gotten 2000 in one part of Dorchester, uh but they also got the same 2000 in Back Bay that um when, in fact the rents in that name in Dorchester might have been 1800 and that's what the amount of the board should have been getting under slowly after more that's more what they're going to get and then in Back Bay, maybe they would get 2600, which means that the tenant had more actual ability to rent in the neighborhoods.

Q

So, on balance, we think that it's it's better, both for being more targeted to the action, neighborhood rents and expanding um uh choice for Section 8 renters that we use the smaller after Mars. The state is not using that yet for their vouchers, um but we are hopeful that that will change, but the BHA is using it for the vouchers they manage from HUD yeah yeah.

I

No I appreciate that, but I would love to just kind of um stay with the whole notion of these uh um out of the city of Boston owners, landlords right, just kind of what Provisions I'm, not I'm, not targeting anyone who's outside of Boston, but I am targeting people who are outside of Boston just to be clear right um because you know there is definitely this trend that there are a lot of folks who don't live in the city of Boston, but are definitely capitalizing on the housing market um and and doing so on the backs of those who are here so I'm just curious.

I

If you could talk to us a little bit about kind of what incentives or uh what measures we can take to uh kind of be a little bit more uh aggressive towards those who live outside of Boston.

Q

I I think one of the problems with the the way that the HUD programs work I'm, not sure we would have the ability to give a different rent to an owner that lived in Boston versus Limited in Boston. I. Think that would be something that I'm.

I

Talking about the landlord I'm talking about Provisions, uh you know a little bit more aggressive towards those landlords who don't live in Boston, not the renter.

Q

Right, I, I, I'm, not sure I'm following the question, but I think what you're suggesting is that um we would be have tighter rent increases on landlords that live outside of Boston and those who live inside of Austin and are, and specifically as it relates to section eight I'm, not sure that we could do that and Sheila I'm. Not sure if you want to follow up on that.

P

I agree with you: Tim I've, never I, I, don't think we can have a different set of obligations or restrictions or regulations depending on where an owner lives. Nothing.

I

I know I I'm sure that there I I know like I'm, not the lawyer in the family, uh Council Louisiana is and uh Council Latta. Is the housing chair I'm always going to try to find the best way forward? That I think is just and I think that these areas, City owners, usually don't really invest in in communities in ways that we would like them to and that there there should be some sort of pathway in terms of accountability that we can explore, maybe not through this option, but in the future really about.

I

How do we hold these outside of Boston owners accountable to um and and how do we invite them into this conversation so that they understand the impact that they're making on the rent um the rental market here in Boston, um so I I, just kind of want to uplift that and I see the chair has appeared which to me has become the new symbol of like my time is up and I am going to yield whatever last time, I have thank you chair and thank you to the administration for your hard work in this.

P

If I just had one one quick comment, because I think it's it's important, certainly to me and and many of us I we're working um in very deliberate ways to work with developers and owners that live in Boston and making sure they've got the credit that they need that they're involved in our affordable housing projects that if they have a market rate project that we're working with them on securing like project-based or mobile vouchers, so I think I'm, also very interested in having more local land.

P

Landowners and landlords really benefit from some of the federal city and state programs. So I do appreciate your concern.

E

Okay, thank you uh for that. uh I want to make sure folks are aware. We do have several other panels. uh This is almost the two hour plus Mark, uh and so uh as we go into this I think that I have one more person for the second round, which is councilor Braden.

J

Thank you, um Mr, chair, I, really want to go back to the the market. Research situation um in high turnover, like I, think it's different.

J

If you're, um if your turnover is your tenants, are there for three or four years, then that's that's fair enough, but we have a high turnover neighborhood every year, the 10 and 75 or 80 of our tenancies change on September, 1st and also brighten. So I really do wonder if we can.

J

Are there any other terms in the kit that we can use to try and stabilize um you're more more longer leases like a two, a two-year lease rather than a one-year lease and also Julie, is when the market price the price goes up, and then you have to go out in the market and find another affordable unit that you can afford, and the reality is that the because of the incredible number of our student population, that those sort of units that are found, especially family size units are are non-existent, uh are unavailable at a at a price that our families can afford.

J

So um it's really detrimental As We Know by our falling School population. It's detrimental to the whole wealth welfare of our entire city that we can't our demand for our strips or supply for that type of housing. So I just don't know in terms of what other tools we can use in and add to the kit to try and stabilize family housing um and um yeah, and the market reset, like I, think, is going to just drive drive it harder than it is at the moment.

P

So I I, we absolutely need to get students out of family housing right and I. I think we need to be working. I've said this before, but I'm I mean it uh we need to start. We can need to continue to work with our colleges and universities to build more student housing, regular dormitory and apartments on campuses, which is happening throughout throughout the United States.

P

We also need to give we. The market is important here and just because we allow a certain increase or don't allow a certain increase between tenancies is is I, don't believe, is really what's going to make the difference what's going to make the difference here is if we are building enough housing, so we have a decent vacancy rate. So there's some competition in the market, and that is what's going to keep prices more moderate and um I I think this policy allows for it. I really do versus you know.

P

Just trying to between tenancies bring down rents a slight amount. We really do need to give tenants choice and they need to be able to shop for what they can afford and we're only going to be able to do that if we're really building a substantial amount of market rate, housing and affordable housing, housing across income. So I think all of these policies are working very hard at that um and I'm I'm, hopefully that we're successful.

J

Thank you Sheila um and Mr chair and mindful of the time uh please I'll and that's all I have for now. Thank.

E

You thank you. Councilor Braden uh I want to now uh just take a moment to thank the administration for for being on for answering questions, I'm sure we will have more during our working sessions. I want to thank uh Mr Davis for all that you've done for the city. uh I believe this may be very close to the last thing that you do uh and I do.

E

Think that, uh though, there's places where certainly I think there's places we could be more aggressive, I think on the on the whole, this does help people uh and so I'm grateful to you for the work that you've done to get us to a place where we're putting something forward. That does help uh individuals in the city of Boston. So thank you. Both uh I'm gonna also take this moment to just remind folks who have been throughout this panel. We do have a community listening session, which will not be panels.

E

It will just be you speaking. So if you speak today as an advocate, if you speak today as a community comment, you can also come back on March, 2nd at 2 pm in person or virtually to be heard so that we have a an entire listening session. I also want to note, before we call in The Advocates that we had some issues with interpretation. Today, uh the Spanish interpreters are interpreting now uh they've stepped up and so I'm very grateful to them for stepping up and filling that void.

E

However, if you have someone a constituent, a friend, a colleague who would like this in a language of their choosing, you can send an email to ccc.go boston.gov and they will be provided a copy of this entire hearing, dubbed in their language of choice so or a transcript entirely translated. So please do not hesitate to make that request.

E

I'm going to now ask our Advocate panels uh to step forward that would be uh Rebecca stole uh Stovall from the New England United for justice, Antonio Ennis, Community organizer at City live feeder obana, who I know had a hard stopper person.

E

We flew right by that so I'm hopeful that he is still here: uh Dr uh Vic, Chatterjee physician at the Boston healthcare for the homeless program, uh and if you are all here, uh I'm, not sure if you have a preferred order, oh and Mark Martinez as well, uh I'm, not sure if there's a uh housing staff attorney for the Massachusetts law reform Institute just to get that out there I want to give all of you a chance to make an opening statement. I, don't know if, amongst yourselves, you have a preferred order.

E

I would like to go to Antonio's first, because I know that you had that time uh restriction, and so, if you are comfortable going first Mr Ernest, then the floor is yours.

T

Thank you, Council Arroyo. Can everybody hear me? Yes,.

E

You're coming in clear.

T

All right, thank you and thank you for having me giving me this opportunity to speak and thank you everybody for being here. um First of all, my name is Antonio Ennis I'm, a community organizer I'm, focusing in Dorchester with City Life via Urbana and I'm.

T

Also a owner occupant in the community of Dorchester and I have been since uh we can go back 56 years, I've been in the home that I live in, um I grew up in this home and um it was passed down through the family and it finally made its way to Mia's ownership. So this house is more than just a uh it's, not a profit building type of thing. This is a home and I do have two tenants as well, and so I I look for long-term tenancy.

T

That's what I'm about and as an owner occupant, um having long-term tenancy would kind of fall in line with rent control, um small owner occupants exempt from the rent control regulations, and that's about 80 percent of the owners in the city and most owners are small um owner occupants.

T

So, rent control affects medium to large homes, and so this exemption is real is really well deserved, because owner occupants are, by definition, on residents right alongside their tenants um so and we're out here, organizing that City, like Vita Urbana, we're out here, organizing when big real estate companies are doing mass building, clear-outs and huge rent increases, which is Thoroughly, pushing our uh people out of out of the communities that they help build the communities that they love and they want to strive in, and they want to keep their families in, and it's not fair to be pushed out with potentially nowhere to go, and just just for profit that gets out of hand.

T

um So again, like I, said, I think long-term tendency as the owner occupant. That would definitely fall in line with my preference of um rent control, plain and simple, um and as a lifelong resident of Dorchester I want uh neighborhood stability and not transients, and that's especially important for communities of color and I speak today, not just um for myself, but for the neighborhood as well. And that would conclude my my um testimony. What I want to take to respond? Thank.

E

You for taking the time to speak to us, Mr Ennis, uh I'm gonna, go to uh Rebecca Stovall.

U

um Good afternoon my name is Rebecca Stovall and I'm, a Boston resident I'm, also the new housing Justice organizer, with New England United for justice. I want to thank you in advance for letting us be a part of this process and express our support for strong rent stabilization measures. New England United for justice is a Grassroots Community organization. We focus our work in Dorchester, Mattapan, Roxbury and High Park.

U

We work directly on behalf of our members who are tenants of all types: renters, homeowners, small landlords, primarily black and Caribbean residents, and working class families across the city I'm, a part of the housing Justice discussions around rent control, foreclosure prevention and development without displacement, efforts with both homes for all mass and right to the city, Boston and I'm. Also managing nu4j's wellness program, which is specifically geared towards helping residents, navigate the process of applying for resources with the city and the state, so they're not displaced from their homes in 2020.

U

Our organization stepped in to provide direct support to Residents, applying for the city's rental rares program and raft to bridge some of the gaps that we're seeing in our communities.

U

um During the pandemic, now almost three years later, we are still seeing we are still assisting hundreds of families in our community who are at risk of displacement, and we are still seeing firsthand the continued gaps in the programs that were established to assist our people in staying in their homes. Some of the gaps being lack of communication between the program, Advocates and families.

U

Looking for support, there's continued repetitive processes around receiving documentation and the biggest flag of residents now having to have an eviction notice before being able to receive any kind of support from the Direct Services I'm here, because we cannot pretend that these issues have stopped because we are not in the height of the pandemic. Covid and the economic impacts from the pandemic are still impacting our neighborhoods. Every day. Run hikes are one of the major stories that we are hearing from residents whose who we serve across our neighborhoods.

U

There is a major wave of displacement happening in the city and in our communities. People of color and low-income working-class residents are being pushed out of their homes and neighborhoods.

U

Rent control is one of the many solutions that we need the city to consider, as we think about ways to stabilize our communities. There is no one solution to the housing crisis, but this policy will help us slow down the process of displacement.

U

The mayor is proposing that rent stabilization allow rents to increase to the consumer pricing index, which is an additional which is with an addition to six percent with a cap at 10 percent. We're saying that CPI or no more than five percent the most vulnerable renters in our neighborhoods cannot afford a rent increase of 10 percent when they are struggling. Now we understand that there are politics at play here with how we can make this possible, but residents in our city are counting on us to do this right.

U

The mayor is also proposing any new development within a 15-year period be exempt from rent stabilization. We're asking for a five-year exemption. Development needs to be held accountable, and we should and should be seen as a means to alleviate the challenges around housing. They should be accountable to stabilizing stabilizing the rents in our city as well. We hope the city, council and the mayor can make these changes and move with the community boys and this spirit so that we can move Collective action together on what our neighborhoods need. Thank you for this opportunity.

E

Thank you very much. uh I'm gonna now go to uh Mark Martinez, the housing staff attorney at the Massachusetts law reform, Institute.

V

uh Thank you councilor Arroyo, um so my name is Mark Martinez. uh In addition to being a Roxbury resident, I am also, as mentioned, a housing attorney at the mass law reform Institute. uh So in this role, I not only work on a number of housing policies such as rent control, but I'm, also in Housing Court. Providing eviction defense to under unrepresented renters um I do want to start by thinking Administration for reintroducing rent control into the conversation in a serious way.

V

I appreciate the opportunity to speak on how we can make this policy more bold in order to meet the moment that we are in um so some of the other people in this panel have already talked about the impact of the 10 cap on rent increases, so I'm going to focus my remarks on the just cause, Provisions that have been put forward and how I believe they can be strengthened.

V

uh However, I would be remiss if I did not at least mention how important it is that any rent control policy includes some Provisions around vacancy control, Market reset. However, we want to frame that because even the strongest just cause Provisions will not protect everyone from evictions or otherwise being forced out of their homes and having a lack of that. I do believe.

V

Incentivizes evictions and I'm happy to answer questions on that later, uh but in the interest of time, like I, said, I want to focus on the just cause Provisions, uh while I believe that much of, what's currently being proposed would Bennett via benefits. Many tenants I am concerned that a few of the provisions created create some pretty large loopholes uh that will allow landlords to do an end run around the spirit of the policy.

V

um So, as we turn to section three, uh some of those concerns are right. I would first recommend the removal of subsection 3G.

V

The any illegal purpose language I believe, casts far too wide of the net and opens the door for landlords to use alleged minor infractions to enforce someone out of their home, and you know I think it's reasonable belief that that would also disproportionately impact tenants of color and, in particular, black tenants and I, also believe that the section the language that already exists in subsection 3C sufficiently captures a lot of the conduct that I think we would want to be covered um under a fault eviction.

V

Subsection 3E also raises some concerns, as mentioned earlier by I, believe councilor Lara, as it pertains to tenant's ability to assert already existing rights and current law uh in defense of a no-fault eviction.

V

Tenants are able to use violations of the state sanitary code, breach of quiet enjoyment and other things as defense against possession, and so any language in this section needs to be clear not to strict tenants of those defenses, uh and you know, of course, happy to work in continuing working sessions to figure out the best way to do that is uh moving on uh in subsection 3H. The policy allows for an eviction.

V

In the event, the landlord wants to occupy the unit or the family member of the landlord and while I do have some reservations about this justification as a whole. I will say that any uh policy that includes this needs to either have a really strong uh proof requirement on the front end or some pretty steep penalties on the back end. If it is found that landlords are misusing this provision to get tenants out, especially in a world where we don't have controls for Market, resets uh I.

V

Imagine that being a pretty large loophole um and then I believe it was um housler luigien who also brought up 3i, and this kind of catch-all category of any other just cause. um I think this is troublesome for a couple of reasons.

V

I think it goes against the entire purpose of enumerating um just cause, which is to provide Clarity for both tenants and landlords, um and I also think it provides landlord attorneys of the ability to slowly carve out more just causes through a housing court that I don't believe uh to be very tenant friendly and it allows them to file what may ultimately be illegal evictions, but will still scare a lot of tenants out of their home and then the last thing that I briefly want to talk about is Section Five, which governs demolitions and substantial Renovations I have a lot of the same concerns as 3H and again believe that any policy around this needs to have some pretty strong proof requirements up front or some pretty steep penalties on the back end for these being misused.

V

uh So with that um I'll add my remarks and of course you know happy to answer any questions once we get there. Thank.

E

You so much uh Mark Martinez I'm not going to go to Dr avik Chatterjee physician at the Boston healthcare for the homeless program.

W

Thank you so much counselor Arroyo um and to the the whole city council for the opportunity. um Again, my name is avik Chatterjee. um um This is my first time giving uh testimony like this.

W

So I appreciate your patience with me, but um so I'm, providing this testimony on my own behalf and I'm, not speaking on behalf of any organization uh just to let you know, I'm a physician trained in Internal Medicine, Pediatrics and addiction, medicine I've been seeing patients in shelters in the Boston area and in residential treatment programs with Boston healthcare for the homeless program since 2013. I'm, also an assistant professor of medicine at bu School of Medicine in Boston, Medical Center, where I do research on addiction and homelessness.

W

I also teach in the social medicine course for medical students at Harvard, Medical, School and I want to speak in support of rent control today because of the health related harms, I, see every day related to homelessness um and then I think I just wanted to point out one sort of um irony, which is that last night, as I Was preparing the oral testimony, I got a message from a patient. A patient uh who um is is a is part of a family she.

W

For years we had seen her um and her partner and her young daughter in family shelter and helped take care for all of our health needs. Her family's health needs for addiction, treatment. She was recently housed and was doing well and has been very stable there. She sent me an emergency message last night saying that she got a notice of a 48-hour eviction and that she'd have to go to court. She'd have to miss her appointment for her addiction. Medication was in a lot of trouble and was just distraught and um I.

W

Think about these families and the transition and just the the terror of that transition out of housing. You know and what that means for them when I'm. You know in in this sort of testimony, so I got that again that message last night, um while I Was preparing this testimony but I think about her I. Think about her young daughter, her school age, daughter for whom um a 48-hour eviction notice potentially means presenting to shelter and means for the daughter uh disruption of schooling.

W

We see that it takes a couple weeks before Transportation catches back up to the the child, children getting back into school disruption of social networks, um proximity to friends, family schools, healthcare providers for the mom having to find a new way to get medications, new Pharmacy, all these different things, and um in the setting of of these things, sort of being avoidable um um and so I'm going to talk a little bit more about that. But so my clinical work cares takes place in shelter-based clinics and in behavioral health treatment programs.

W

Many of the patients I see are recently experiencing homelessness or are ones housed at imminent risk of losing their housing. So, while some of my patients have lost their jobs, whether due to the pandemic illness or family loss, others continue to work. Yeah, it's still unable to make rent and no one should have to work all day only to return to a shelter at night, because rent is so high in Boston that it's Out, Of, Reach, being stably housed can promote.

W

Health housing makes it easier for people to hold on to and take their medications consistently. It can provide people with a refuge uh not just from inclement weather, but from the stress and strain uh anxiety and Trauma that comes with being on house. When my patients lose their housing like the family, I mentioned on unraveling can happen, so meals become inconsistent and unpredictable medications are lost or forgotten. Sleep is disrupted chronic illness and mental health deteriorates, and sometimes substance, use disorders, resurface or worsen very quickly.

W

My patients, time and priorities uh are redirected to meeting their basic needs for shelter and food. It became becomes increasingly difficult to schedule and keep the computer to keep their medical appointments and routine screenings for early detection of cancer go undone and opportunities for early diagnosis and medical conditions go missed. Improvements that were painstakingly made to manage chronic illness like diabetes, hypertension and depression disappear.

W

The more housing instability, my patients experience, the more chaotic and stressful their lives become even brief. Episodes of homelessness come with exposure to violence and Trauma every instance of lost housing takes a toll on health then requires rebuilding healing. It is one of the most destabilizing, disruptive and dehumanizing experiences eyewitness, making Boston's rent as affordable as a possible in order to prevent home, assist and housing and stability as health policy.

W

So rent control should have three key benefits: it prevents displacement by skyrocketing increases in rent. It brings down housing costs over time and it stops snowfall evictions for it to be. Rent control must accomplish all three of these things time. Rent increases in inflation is reasonable, but to a point, we've seen how a pandemic and subsequent volatile markets contribute to eviction and homelessness. Capping rent increases to a maximum of five percent would ensure that more people could maintain their housing despite unpredictable Market volatility.

W

In conclusion, I'm deeply grateful for mayor Wu's work and efforts around rent control in Boston. This is a big step forward. Strengthening this bill will prevent housing and stability and homelessness, despite the uncertainties that lie ahead. Thank you very much, I'm happy to answer any questions. Subsequently,.

E

Thank you uh to all of our panelists on this panel. uh I want to do this. Similarly, to make sure that we're not just going down the line and people don't have questions. If you have questions for this panel, uh please raise your hand and we will go in order of arrival, uh not order of hand going up, but order arrival to the hearing. uh I see counselor mejia's hand up.

E

Does anyone have questions for this panel specifically uh counselor mejia's hand is up I, see counselor Lara I'm gonna go to counselor Lara.

N

Thank you chair um and thank you all for sharing your testimony um and doctor for talking about the really real impacts of not only displacement, but uh the stressors that come with high rent and not really knowing, if you're going to be able to pay your rent, even if you do have a room for your head and how that has an impact. As someone who has a public health background, it is you know.

N

Housing is one of the key social determinants of health and it's one of the things that we often forget, and so, when I am listening to small landlords. Talk about how what they need in order to be successful as a small landlord is to ensure longevity and that people are in their homes uh that what communities need is for people to not be transient that controlling rants or at least preventing rent gouging can have positive impacts on people's Health outcomes.

N

It really drives the point home about what we're trying to do here when you set all of those positives and all of those needs against the need to make a profit and the need to have an investment which isn't, because that is that's what that is, an investment be profitable versus people, and that's the conversation that we're having here today. um My question mark: you talked in your testimony a little bit about the vacancy um control. Can you talk a little bit more about what your opinions are on that and why?

N

You think we need to um include some protections when there's a transition between renters.

V

Yeah absolutely so I think that right, I think it's it's undeniable right and I think there's lots of research to support this right.

V

The lack of right vacancy control, Market reset, whatever you want to call it incentivizes evictions right and so then the question then becomes is: are the just cause Provisions that we're putting in this bill strong enough to fight against that are strong enough to prevent um those incentivized, evictions and I think the answer ultimately is now right, even the strongest protections right, what it really comes down to is the strongest protections only apply to those that are willing and able to assert those rights to court, and we know it's a significant number of people never make it that far and that's for a few reasons right.

V

First right right now we're talking about this kind of a legal This legal eviction process right, there's this whole other kind of Shadow world of informal evictions um uh right, which is people leaving before formal eviction proceedings even begin. um Informal evictions are hard to quantify, but the available studies do reveal pretty bleak picture.

V

um There was a study in Milwaukee that was the basis for Matthew Desmond's book evicted um that you know stated for every formal eviction. There were two informal evictions that took place: um there's a New York study, which is the most conservative of the ones that are out there.

V

um That suggest there's about a one-to-one ratio for informal to formal evictions um and the only Nationwide Center. We have um actually is extremely right and says that for every formal eviction gets filed, there's five and a half informal evictions that happen, um and so, while each of these things, while each of these studies, you know use different methodologies, ask different questions right.

V

It's really clear that informal evictions are really really prevalent practice um that right no amount of um Protections in court are going to help and, of course, informal evictions are most likely to impact some of our multiple vulnerable residents. So immigrants, people with English as a second language, limited English proficiency um other low-income people right. They are the ones that are most at risk for these informal evictions and, as we know already the ones the most um at risk for being displaced out of their homes.

V

And then you know, even if you get past, that even for tenants where formal evictions are sought, there's still a number of barriers on being able to it in being able to assert those protections. uh The math law reform, along with the Justice Center of Southeast Massachusetts, released a report last year. That shows almost a quarter of tenants facing eviction, don't show up to court and that's for a lot of reasons right. That's they don't get proper notice. They were told by the landlord.

V

They didn't have to write, fears around the eviction process and going into court, and so we know right if you're not showing up in court again, no amount of um just cause protections are going to protect you if you're, not showing up in court um and for the ones that do show up uh there. You also still have to be able to be knowledgeable to affirmatively assert those rights right. You don't just show up to court, and a judge says here: are your rights? Have they been violated?

V

Whether you need to know that right, which is a really uphill battle for tenants that aren't represent and I, know, I? Think she's Dylan mentioned earlier write some things around funding for representation for Legal Services in Housing Court, which is really important right in Boston and I I checked these numbers this morning for the year, 2022 under seven percent of tenants were represented by Council and housing court, while over 90 of landlords were right.

V

So there's this deep power in Balance um in place there- and you know landlord attorneys- know all of these things um right and they know that they're true. um So you know.

V

That is why, even with the best best protections, we are still going to lose a lot of people if landlords are incentivized to get people out if they know, that is how they can reset their rents and you know, hike them to a level above whatever cap is included, and so you know that's why I think that that piece of this policy is really really important.

N

Thank you Mark for for answering my question. I think, what's what's being made obvious to me, is that we are fighting what's on paper and then what's not right. These kind of, like the shadow evictions right that these are also happening, and so, although we're here talking about a homo petition and legislation, that's going to protect people who are going through this process.

N

There is a there are a significant amount of people in our communities, particularly black and brown people, low, Working, Class People, who are not going through these processes at all and who are not protected. And so for me.

N

What this shows is that if there's not a veil of protection or a shield of protection over these people, then it's really important for this legislation that we do have to be stronger and it also drives the point home that what we're looking at is an ecosystem of protections, not just rent control, that a renter's Bill of Rights is important. That having anti-displacement zones is important, that all the things that we're we've been moving through.

N

The housing committee ultimately help protect people who are not going to go through a traditional eviction process uh before they get there.

N

um One of the questions and because I know that we have Mr Ennis here with us, what are the one of the conversations that people often have are about um homeowners and the impact of rent control on homeowners and folks in the neighborhood and Mark and and I, don't know if Mr, Ennis or Mark or anybody else can talk a little bit about, because one of the things that I know to be true is that when this you know the speculative Market does what the speculative Market knows, how to do.

N

It also does impact homeowners, particularly middle class um and low-income folks of color, who are homeowners, because it does increase the value of their home and therefore their um taxes. When you see your rental market, that's kind of like destabilizer, you see all of his new um all of these new buildings going up around the building. Can you talk a little bit more about how this? How having rent stabilization and having tenant protections supports homeowners and helps reduce costs and keys? Keep costs down for our members.

T

So um I just believe that, with with homeowners being 80 and owner occupants being 80 of the owners in this city, um a lot don't know about those benefits um and that's why it's important that rent control comes about I, think um when you have an owner who lives in the property they're going they're gonna, there's a difference of of how that property is going to be tended to.

T

um You live this so you're more concerned about the upkeep of it than than a landlord. That does not live there um in terms of the taxes and the thing that you mentioned and how that is going to affect um I. I, really don't know how how the in terms of the taxes going up and how that relates to rent and things of that nature. But what I do know is that long-term, tenancy and rent control is where we need to be I.

T

I can't really imagine an owner who lives in a building that wants to have um a high rate in turnover in tenants. For example, one of my tenants has been with me for 13 years um before that I had a tenant that was here for like 15 years, I just got a new tenant she's going on her fourth year um and she's.

T

You know that tenants it's it's hard to have tenants in the city of Boston, especially when you live in the building, but at the same time, like I said you want long-term tenancy because you want to be able to build a relationship with those tenants, you're living with them. You want to be I'm. Almost it's almost like a family. Pretty much so I mean that's really. What I can add I don't know if it answers your question all the way. I don't think it did, but that's what my that's.

T

My stance on on a small homes can.

V

I can, if, if you don't mind, counselor I can quickly bad you're. Just anecdotally, I don't have Jana to back this up, but anecdotally, uh because I'm I'm on the board of my local neighborhood Council, and so you know, I talked to a lot of my neighbors um and so anecdotally. I could say right. There certainly been a lot of people uh from my neighborhood in Roxbury over the past few years, particularly Elders on fixed incomes. Right that aren't landlords right just own.

V

Their home uh worked really hard to own their home, because the rising cost of rents and the overall right rising cost of living, their property values, was up their taxes go up and because they're on a limited income they can't afford those and so right there have been multiple Elders from my neighborhood right that have been forced out right and these weren't, like landlords. This wasn't landlords I couldn't afford the upkeep in their building because their tenants are paying too low in rent right.

V

These are people that owned single-family homes, um and you know wanted that stability and had that long-term stability. You know long-time Elders in the neighborhood that get pushed out, um and so you know I think right. Any policy that controls the cost of living keeps that down right. It's not just a renter uh instead of just a renter friendly policy right, it is also a homeowner friendly policy, especially for our smaller and Elder landlord um homeowners.

N

Thank you so much Mark for for answering that question of Mr Ennis for talking. You know as a small landlord.

N

um Ultimately what it is that you like to see and I think that's what we longevity is what we all want to see in our communities, whether it be the person who's on a fixed income who lives in a single family, home or the renter who's been in their apartment for 13 years. We want to make sure that our policies are doing everything possible to keep them there. So thank you all for all of your work and I will save my time. Thank you, chair.

E

N

E

uh Did you want to answer to that.

U

Yeah just really quickly, um I just wanted to say, um especially in our organization. We represent small landlords and renters, and we see that small landlords do want to be a part of the solution as well, especially when they see their children not being able to find housing in their neighborhoods that they've grown up in. So we should look at potentially having incentives that help small landlords be a part of protecting residents in the community.

U

We could get creative, with potentially lowering taxes for landlords who rent below Market rent or lowering their taxes and utilities if they rent at lower rates and I know this bill does exempt small landlords, but they do care about this crisis as well.

N

Thank you so much Rebecca I really appreciate it and I think that um I agree with President Flynn in terms of like what can we do to support people who are also renting below Market rates? I appreciate it. Thank you.

E

Thank you, councilor Lara I see councilor Mejia with her hand up and see councilor Flynn, so I'm going to go to counselor Mejia, followed by counselor Flynn uh and uh then and then counselor luigien I see you as well so those three uh and if anyone else would like to ask questions of this panel, please do raise your hand and we'll get to you as well.

I

Thank you chair, and thank you to the advocates for being here and and helping us ground in what this moment is calling for um I, just kind of want to run out of Civic examples.

I

um I've been very fortunate um when I wasn't able to afford to move back to Boston. um You know I had to live in Quincy for a little hot. Second there with annalize, um but I got really lucky. um There was an elder who um rented her apartment uh to us. She was owner occupied and did so way below Market um rent and, as a result of that, I was able to save a little bit of money to be able to then get my mom out of section 8..

I

So I do think that there are um that we do have an opportunity to really support some of our smaller landlords, and particularly our elders, who are um you know who have lived here for 50 plus years, and uh we need to do this in a way that's going to protect them as well. So I just wanted to I benefit from from that Grace that my landlord gave me um so I I think that there's something to be said about that.

I

um The other is, is that you know I recently got a call from an elder who is living in the chocolate um Baker Factory uh unit um she's been there for a long time now, she's in a fixed income and her rent has skyrocketed to the point that she can know. You know it's going to be really difficult for her to live there.

I

So I'm curious as The Advocates can talk a little bit about what are what are some of the um ideas that you have to help support um some some of these folks who have been living in in a in a particular building for a period of time. But then you know rents start to increase in ways that they can no longer afford to to stay. You know how can we seize this moment uh to to advocate for them any ideas that we can uh include in this advocacy.

R

I

Oh, is that not a clear question, maybe- or maybe nobody can hear me- my internet is off.

U

I

Sorry, yeah, okay, yeah I, just really kind of want to get at some of the things that you know. Historically, what I've heard from some folks, um particularly those who are on fixed incomes, that when their rents raise you know and their income does not they, they tend to be rent burdened and I'm curious as we continue to fight whether it be through this ordinance or any other future opportunities. If you could just talk to us about what do you think are some of the best practice practices to help support our renters.

T

I think, personally, that's a that's a really, really tremendously valid point um raising rents without your income being raised. It just doesn't line up and yeah. I too would like to know how how we can get around that, because that is going to be a. It is a problem. Now it's going to continue to be a problem going forward with rents being able to be raised, Beyond people's means it has to line up.

V

Yeah I mean I, think I would say, really I think that's right, the Crux of what we're getting at here. As you know, the administration puts forward a cap, it's a 10 um and what interests are being balanced um and who's interested being balanced, more heavily right from my perspective as a housing attorney as an advocate right. Obviously, I believe that the interest of the people that you just mentioned, Council Mejia, are the people that need to be weighted more heavily um right.

V

If we're talking about CPI plus six with a cap at 10 as like a reasonable policy right, we already know what rents are in Boston.

V

You know if you're in a two three bedroom apartment and you're getting charged three four thousand dollars saying ten percent right, which is where we would be at this year saying that your rent can then be raised 400 for the next year, like that's, not rent, control, right, I, I think it is true when they talk about those policies like uh anti-right, gouging policy and obviously right I think we can all agree that rent gouging is really bad, but that's also not at the core of the problem. Right I.

V

Think setting such a high cap in a city- that's already really expensive- um is right, really problematic. For so many of the people, like you mentioned, have some media right. People on a fixed income or people write just low-income people as a whole um and so I think that's that's the Crux of what we're talking about here and the Crux of what the conversation is going to continue to be as we work out like what is this number that we're going to cap this at.

I

Yeah and I and I appreciate that and I think I'm happy that the administration is uh we're looking at this moment in terms of how we can make it stronger and uh and and meet the moment right. I think that if we're gonna go through all of this Brigham and roll that we should, we should put forth a piece of legislation that is the strongest and that it is the most um reflective of what um the rental market looks like here and now. I mean I.

I

Think it's ridiculous I've seen I I cannot believe that a two to three bedroom apartment is coming in at three thousand dollars a month or close to sometimes even four. Depending on what parts of the neighborhood you live in I think that that is um incredibly greedy and uh we need to really um use every single tool.

I

We have in our toolkit to uh say that Boston is no longer going to be a city where people are going to be able to come here and take advantage of our most vulnerable, um so I'm here for all of it and I just wanted to thank all of the advocates for your hard work in the space um know that you have a partner in this and I. Look forward to continuing to raise our platform.

I

I mean utilizing my voice to be your microphone, so keep on amplifying, so that we can get this to where it needs to be. Thank you, chair.

E

Thank you, councilor Mejia, I'm, going to go to uh councilor, Flynn and then counselor Louisiana.

B

Thank you. Thank you, chair Arroyo, and thank you to the community um Community groups that are on this piano today and learned a lot from you um so just want to highlight. Thank you. Rebecca I was listening closely to what you said.

B

um You know there really should be a plan for lit uh for owners that do the right thing and providing a a rate rent, that's lower than market value.

B

um There should be an opportunity for them to be acknowledged and whether that's tax success, assessment I think it's critically needed that we need to recognize that there are a lot of good landlords out there. Also you know we don't want to penalize these good landlords for doing the right thing for so many years, keeping keeping good tenants in their home, so I think it's it's important that we we all work together and you know, get something passed at the state house, but also we want to make sure something that goes up to the State.

B

House is going to be acted on by the by the leaders of the state house, so I guess. My question is to the to the community panel, the the six percent figure that that has been highlighted. Are you advocating for something higher or something lower.

U

um I would say it would be lower like we want to Cabinet no more than the five percent, um as we were just talking about people can barely afford rent now. So if you, if you have that five percent, no more, uh no more than five percent, although people might still struggle it's something that helps them kind of get back on their feet, at least we're not raising rents. More than that you have it the six percent plus uh CPI, which could be up to 10 I.

U

Believe um then you have a higher rate than people can afford, and they can barely afford the rates that they have now.

B

Thanks Rebecca, anyone else want to weigh in there.

V

I would just I I, think everything that Rebecca said is correct. I would just add that there is um an enabling act to Statewide enabling act filed at the state house right now.

V

um That does have that CPI, um the cat, it's the the increase, is tied to CPI with a cap at five percent, um and so, as we think about what's going on at the state house um and I used to work at the State House on the State House staffer for many years right, as we think about what's going on there just understand that, like there is a movement um and there's a lot of organizing and activity around that lower rate, uh we acknowledge it's an uphill battle right.

V

We know what the rent controls history is at the state house, but there is an active fight and an active movement behind um allowing that lower cap happening at the State House. At the same time that we're having these conversations here about what this whole rule is going to look like.

B

B

So I guess my final question: would would you rather something go up to the state house at six percent and get past, or would you rather something go up to the state house at five percent and take a chance that it that it might not get passed? What would you what would you rather do.

U

um I I think we shouldn't. Yes, we want this past I, don't know if it's necessarily a great idea to be thinking. Do we want to push something that is higher? That might not actually help our folks in our communities, because we know it's going to pass or do we want to push something that we know would actually be beneficial to the people in our community struggling now, even if there's a chance, it won't pass.

B

That yeah thanks Rebecca, um appreciate your comments and it was an informative panel. um Thank you.

E

Mr chair, thank you. Councilor Flynn, uh councilor, Louis, Jen,.

O

Thank you Mr chair and thank you job advocates for um and we're providing uh commentary, Rebecca Antonio uh Mark and the doctor. Thank you for taking your time for those who I know and don't know, I appreciate you really adding some color here as to why it's so important for us to stabilize communities and to really think about uh what it is that owners want when we're talking about long-term tenancy and not everyone being driven by trying to get the most out of their property right. That's not true for my dad.

O

That's not true for a lot of small town time, landlords that that I know so I appreciate you all adding that to this discussion. um I I guess. My question is around. If anyone has Insight here, I'm beginning to think differently about the just cause, provisions and I think part of this is because oftentimes in the leases themselves, they outline the behavior that could get someone uh evicted right.

O

That, like you know in in Housing, Court they're, well versed on what the just cause Provisions are outside of like non-payment or no false evictions, and so I'm wondering if there really is a need for us. um You know to spell out to a t like what are the just cause: Provisions um that would get someone evicted like if anyone on the advocate panel knows or maybe, if anyone on the admin panel.

O

This may be a question for an admin to see how other cities have crafted their um uh their rent stabilization policies to see whether they spell out those just cause provisions, questions or whether they allow sort of the leases.

V

O

Housing court to really spell that mention about abrasion about for. Can you not hear me sorry, you.

V

Cut out a little bit there, but I think I I think I understand the gist of your question, and so the answer. Your question is: what other places do that have just class protection is there's a little bit of a mix.

V

um I will say the vast majority of uh jurisdictions that have specific just cause Provisions do spell out what those uh Provisions are. Now, what exactly are and how many of you are definitely varies um from municipality municipality or state to state, depending on where they have it, um but it is a far more common practice to lay them out and I. Think you know that's something we thought about a lot.

V

You know that same bill that I talked about before that has that five percent cap also has some enumerated just cause Provisions with the flexibility right, giving also giving municipalities the flexibility to add some more if they want. um But we did have this conversation right.

V

It was a big internal debate like do we list these things out, or do we kind of leave it more amorphous and I think we ultimately went with listing them out, like I said before, to provide Clarity right to just say you know we're going to ban no false evictions and to then let that kind of play out in the courts and let Cason develop that uh we think puts tenants at a really big disadvantage um right.

V

So the advantage of listing them out is that tenants know so when their landlord serves them with a notice to quit. That says: here's why I'm evicting you, where, like they, have some type of idea about whether or not this is allowed, um and it's not perfect right as we as you know, you talked with Chief Dylan before there is.

V

You know some necessity for a little bit of flexibility and we're never going to perfectly enumerate everything, um but by and large I think we aired towards the side of listing those out, like I, said for the purpose of clarity through both landlords and tenants right and hopes that tenants will actually be able to assert their right um right, because until we have a statewide right to council program um right, it's going to be really hard for them to do without an attorney and even and for a lot of the same reasons.

V

I talked about before. It's still not going to be perfect.

O

O

I want to give a little bit more thought to the just cause provision, but we can do that in further working sessions, because I just want to make sure we're, not you know being overly prescriptive in a way that is not actually beneficial to tenants right, um like that double reinforcement of things that we know negatively affect you know tenants of color uh male tenants with records, and so I I just want us to be careful there um and uh second thirded and fourth on the right to counsel and the pushes that we need to do to make that a reality to really get up that power and balance that presents itself every single day and how's it going.

O

So. Thank you. Everyone um and I look forward to working with all of you on this.

E

Thank you for that region, I'm just gonna, say to this panel. uh One of the things that I've taken away from this is uh the concern which I think is a valid concern. We have to look at of saying that you can reset the market when that individual is no longer a tenant, could lead to an incentive to actually push tenants out.

E

I think that's a realistic concern that I appreciate you flagging um that on top of sort of how we look at uh landlords who are nearing that 15-year Mark and how they operate, knowing that they're about to get sort of opted in what that would cause in terms of just a surge there and trying to figure out how we do protections on that I think those are very valid things.

E

My question to sort of the panel as a whole: you don't all have to answer it, but if you have an answer to it, I would love to hear it. uh What language in this home rule petition as proposed? Do you consider solid language that should be preserved and what language do you believe should be added to the extent that you're able to sort of offer that now in terms of a concept or an idea and or language that you believe could be beneficial so language?

E

That's in here now that you look at this home real petition as it's currently crafted and the things it's trying to achieve that. You think this is solid.

E

Let's try and keep that if you have that and language that you believe is missing, that could strengthen it uh and or things that are in it that you think the the changing of that language would be beneficial, so I don't want it to be like too open-ended for sort of one and one, if you have it, I'd appreciate it so to whoever on the panel sort of has opinions on that it doesn't have to be all of you. But the question is open to all of you.

V

I mean just for the sake of being insisted, right, I think some type of Market reset control right. It doesn't have to be complete.

V

um You know, keeping the same cap across the board right I think there are other tools, but I think that there does have to be right from a from a tenant perspective from a tenant protection perspective. I think there has to be something in there related to that.

E

Thank you, Mark, that's very helpful. I see, counselor Braden has raised her hand I'm going to go to counselor Braden.

J

um Thank you everyone. This has been a very great. This is a wonderful panel. I I share many of your concerns. um Antonio. um You make a good um case for trying to stabilize our our Tendencies and to have longer Tendencies as a way to slow everything down. There's a way to incentivize that across the board to be wonderful, I was just wondering um in terms you know a justifiable, a measurable, a metric that we could use to.

J

You know gauge the uh the level of increase, uh whether we add three percent or six percent to this uh to the CPI.

J

um You know wondering if, if um you know other examples would be just looking at the growth in in the city or in the Massachusetts Department of Revenue certifies a rate of new growth rate study every two years, whether in Boston's was recertified and 3.3 3.13 in 2020 and 3.16 in 2022. So you know there are.

J

There are other metrics that we could maybe use uh uh separate or, in addition to try and just trying to find a fair uh and justifiable measure that we could use to um to increase our um our rents and I do have some concerns. As I said earlier about the 10 um six percent, CPI plus six percent seems uh seems um if you're, if you're on fixed income or low income, that's a lot of money.

J

So I'm just wondering if this is any other any other metric that we could use and and new folks that you've come across any other metrics um in your research. That might be helpful. Thank you.

V

um I we looked at other metrics um I think. Ultimately, we decided that uh CPI was the best right. There is the there's like the amorphous. It's like fair market return standard that gets used. That is kind of an undefined thing kind of like amorphously, you know uh created by a rent, control board.

V

um You know, we've looked at other things like you know, other growth indicators, um I, don't know that we're gonna land on a perfect one um I think CPI is where we landed just because I think it's one of the thing that people tend to understand, and you know the basic idea again. If the version of the bill that mass law reform um and the larger homes raw Coalition is pushing, is just straight up right, it's tied to CPI this idea.

V

Being that like let like, why are we allowing um you know, landlords to increase their profit Beyond um the cost of inflation um right in this idea of this, this um CPI plus six in this this 10 cap right sets up this World, in which the years in which inflation is the highest is the years in which right rent increases then become the highest, which is also the time when people can least afford rent increases, um and so you know that's why we we stick to strict CPI with a cap at five, but you know I, there are other metrics um I, don't know that any of them are particularly better or more useful than CPI.

J

V

Research that we've done.

J

And I, don't argue with your analysis, I'm just wondering if those other metrics were considered as well. um Thank you. Thank you all for your great work and advocacy. Thank you all Mr chair. That's all I have thank.

E

You councilman.

M

uh Thank you, chair Royal, thank you to The Advocates um for the advocacy and um very insightful and um definitely want to dive into a lot more. That has been brought up on this piano and by my colleagues as well, and you know my my aunt she's she's, a small landlord and she helps um provide you know: low low low rent. She has two bedrooms right here in Dorchester for still with heating hot water included for twelve hundred dollars a month.

M

My parents um also homeowners, and um that that's how you know not only like friends and family were able to save. You know um to be able to buy, buy their own homes. You know I had a friend who was able to rent at a very, very low rate um with with um through my parents and then was able to buy their own home, and likewise my brother, but so I understand the importance of small landlords and how they, you know, are providing us the the rent that is needed.

M

um You know the low rent here, that's needed for um or for a rented population. So it sounds like you know, with rent being you know, Massachusetts will be at Boston being one of the highest. You know rents in the country like any type of percentage. Is it's just going to be just too much right, so it sounds like we TR. What we're trying to do is incentivize our landlords to offer lower ramps. So do you?

M

Do you think that there's anything that we can attach to this bill or any other policy that can you know incentivize landlords to to do good practices on providing more affordable rents to to their um to the rented population?.

U

um As I said, I had mentioned before, like we could potentially think about um or in taxes, we also um there could be repair funds for landlords stuff like that, but we do need to move a process and develop new policies and ideas together when it comes to kind of incentivizing, small landlords or landlords in general, just to make sure the rents are something that our people can actually afford when they are living in our city and.

X

Have we seen any other cities, the States, you know adopt any of those programs that you know we could take a look at to see if we could bring bring to Boston.

U

um I'm not 100 sure we are investing this now, um but again the policy is exempting small landlords and there are protections there, um so small landlords owner occupy four units or less. So there is something already in place and I believe in other cities. They have had exemptions like this, but we are still investigating that process and seeing what kind of exemptions there's there has been and what has worked or incentives, and things like that.

T

And I I, think outside of um small homeowners, um home attendant associations and organizing is, is a major thing. It's what we do here at City, Life and Farmington associations across the city would bode well and um pushing back on American children.

T

I mean pushing forward control.

M

Well, thank you for all your advocacy and look forward to continue working with um Advocate Group on on this legislation. Thank you, chair.

D

E

You to this pan really grateful for your uh Indulgence of your time and for answering these questions. uh We do have a community feedback session, March 2nd at 2 pm. If you can spread the word amongst your own sort of organizations and your own folks, that would be very helpful to making sure we hear from as many folks as possible on this.

E

uh That is assess going to be Community listening, uh which means that folks will be able to literally be the focal point from the beginning to the end so appreciate you giving us your time. I'ma now move over to the uh last uh well I see Council Anderson has some questions for this panel, so I want to make sure I go to her and then we're going to move over to the next panel, uh so Council Anderson. The floor is yours.

K

Thank you, chair, um actually, just a question for you.

K

um Typically or historically, we hold the public sessions and or testimony, and we don't actually have the administration present to respond or for feedback or just to listen, um just wondering if you consider inviting the administration back on so that they're, just not listening behind a screen but they're actually present and folks are feeling like they're being heard.

E

Yeah I'll reached out to the administration to make sure that we see how we can accommodate having them present uh at that hearing.

K

um Thank you, chair I, just wanted to thank the panelists and The Advocates here today for your hard work and advocacy looking forward to working with you.

E

Thank you uh because this panel uh you're welcome to stay and watch the rest of this hearing. uh If you would like, or you are welcome to go, if you have other obligations. Thank you very much for being here with us today. uh Our next panel is comprised of the Greater Boston real estate board.

E

uh We have Greg Basile the CEO of the Greater Boston real estate board, uh Karen Morgan, the director of the Greater Boston Association of Realtors and Leah cuffy, the director of advocacy and advocacy research at the national Apartment Association, uh so uh I'm gonna go to uh Mr Basile first, uh who I believe is going to introduce his colleagues and then I will let you all do an opening in the order uh that you have uh decided to go. Thank you.

Y

Thanks Mr chairman, um and thank you for this opportunity to appear before your body today and speak um I know we're over three and a half hours in, so we will be respectful of the three and a the three minute time limit that you uh you gave us when we were at. We asked to testify.

Y

My name is Greg vassel, I'm the CEO of the Greater Boston real estate board uh and I'm joined today by Karen Morgan who's, one of our realtor members and she's, a real estate professional with with almost 40 years of experience in the business and Leah cuffy from the national Apartment Association.

Y

Who is the director of advocacy, uh National advocacy for for NAA, we hope to be joined. We had uh Kate Franco who's. The 2023 chair of the Greater Boston real estate board with us Kate has over 40 years of experience as a multi-family housing provider.

Y

She was going to talk specifically about the just cause evictions provisions of this legislation, but Kate had a previous obligation and had to leave us um so I'll, be very, very brief and I'll just simply say that we acknowledge the fact that that landlords- excuse me housing providers and um and residents, are dealing with very high rents in the city of Boston. um It's not lost on us in any way shape or form.

Y

Our biggest concern with this particular proposal is the impact it could have on production because we believe that production is going to be the way out of this.

Y

We will probably have some ideological and philosophical differences, but but we stand ready to work with all the different groups, because the housing Pro the housing crisis is very important and needs to be addressed in the city of Boston and with that I'd like to introduce Karen Morgan, who has experience in the rent control World in a number of different facets, and she can add some insight and thought Karen. Please. Thank you very much you're on mute, Karen.

Z

Thank you. Thank you very much, uh Tam and Aurora and members of this committee. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. My name is Karen Morgan and I am a lifelong resident of the city of Boston and have 36 years of experience as a real estate. Professional I am here today in my capacity as a volunteer and member of the Greater Boston real estate board. This is my first time ever testifying before Council, so I may appear a little nervous.

Z

I appear before you today, because I know firsthand what it's like to be: a housing provider who has been harmed by rent control. I, don't ever want to deal with rent control again it was very debilitating, stressful time consuming and costly. For me, when I was 30 years old, a young mother just starting out, we decided to become hormones. We were so excited about purchasing a home being raised by a single mom on a teacher's salary.

Z

My mom was never able to experience the benefit of being a homeowner, so I wanted to realize that American Dream we founded three family in Boston. The first floor was occupied by a State Trooper, paying 220 a month, and the second and third floors were vacant. We close on the house and we had enough funds to do the repairs and carry the property for six months. The construction took a little longer than what we anticipated. So we started the paperwork to raise the rent.

Z

On the first floor, we were approved for a forty dollar increase which the tenant refused to pay. So we hired an attorney which put a huge strain on us financially. From that point on the tenant made our lives a living hell. He complained about everything from the dust on his clothes to us being in the building. The eviction process took one and a half years before we were able to evict him. Needless to say, we contemplated excelling many times because it was so daunting instead of selling.

Z

We stayed the course and focused on achieving our goals. Once the construction was completed, we rented the upper units to Section 8 and, to this day we continue to rent to the program. It's been a rewarding experience and we're so grateful. We had this option.

Z

I've experienced and seen firsthand what rent control um have on everything, from Individual properties to entire neighborhoods policies like rent control, overwhelm owners with income restrictions that make property up heat and maintenance. Incredibly difficult combine this with the fact that rent control discourages new apartment constructions. We are faced with a policy that causes more harm than good.

Z

A better solution is the Section 8 program or some sort of rental assistant or Grant Boston must do all we can to prevent the rent, The Return of rent control, My Hope Is that the city of Boston can create an equitable system other than rent control that both tenants and properties owners will benefit from. Thank you.

Z

E

Thank you uh whoever's. Next.

AA

Good afternoon, chairman Arroyo and members of city council I'm grateful for the chance to speak with you today and voice what I oppose rent control and rent stabilization policies. My name is Leah cuffy I'm, the director of advocacy research at the national Apartment Association, the national Apartment Association, is the leading voice of the rental Housing Industry. We are a Federation of 141 state and local affiliates, including the Greater Boston real estate board I'm. Here today to prevent new qualitative research. We conducted to learn about the effects of rent control policies and like Karen Morgan.

AA

This is also my first time testifying what more Council so the national Apartment Association conducted interviews with professionals who either own manage or develop rental housing properties in Santa, Barbara and Santa Ana, California Portland and Eugene Oregon and Saint Paul Minnesota.

AA

One of the key findings from our research is that owners, operators and developers reported that their plans to invest in or develop the market dramatically shifted after rent control laws were put into effect. So our preliminary findings from our research show that two-thirds of housing provider providers have either reduced or expect to reduce development or investment plans as a result of rent control policies and over half have considered selling off their properties.

AA

Secondly, rent control regulations may result in rental housing providers being forced to put off important maintenance and Improvement projects leading to decreased property values and raising concerns about the long-term sustainability of their properties. So our early findings from our research show that the majority of housing providers have had to or expect to deferred maintenance and Improvement projects.

AA

And lastly, despite efforts to create a fair housing market, rent control policies are unable to effectively Target the most at risk. You know: lower income, households exclusively initial findings from our research show that over half of owners and operators interviewed reported that high earning renters are also benefiting from rent control policies.

AA

um So, while limiting red growth um or limiting rent growth affects the long-term viability of building new units and also performing maintenance on existing units, as it changes the expected return on investment for each of these activities, so Additionally, the cap on rent is essentially a cap on rental income for Effective properties, which would directly result in lower property values which in turn, impacts property tax revenue.

AA

um So, while rent control is a well-meaning policy, it does destabilize the rental market by driving away investment and new construction, which ultimately decreases affordability. Thank you so much for your time and consideration.

E

Thank you, I'm gonna I will have questions for this panel myself, but I want to make sure I give my colleagues an opportunity to ask questions. So please raise your your hands as we get to that.

E

N

Thank you, chair and I might um I might have further questions, um as you and my other Council colleagues ask um but I just wanted to clarify um for Miss coffee am I pronouncing that correctly. Yes,.

AA

That's correct. Thank.

N

You great um that the research that you're referencing is your research and not. You said it in your sentence, but I just wanted to clarify that it is not independent research. It is your research.

AA

That's correct, yes,.

N

Okay, thank you. Thank you. Council Royal I will I will take my turn next. If I have other questions.

E

Thank you, uh councilor Lara, I, don't know if there's any other questions from my colleagues before I go ahead and jump in I'd like to try and make sure that I give okay councilor Coletta.

L

Thank you, chair Arroyo, um and thank you uh to The Advocates, who spoke I, apologize that I had to jump for a little bit for a previous commitment, but I'm happy to be back um folks on this panel. Thank you for for showing up as well.

L

um uh We talk a lot about or you've spoken about, Capital repairs and deferred maintenance, and all of that do you have any data on what the average cost of capital repairs are for a smaller landlord. Maybe we can do a bicycle Decker um and then also what the frequency of maintenance is for for those types of uh home providers is what you had said. Greg.

Y

um Counselor in my testimony, I didn't talk about Capital repairs, I, don't know Leah. If you alluded to some of those in yours.

AA

Thank you. Thank you for your question, um so we do conduct a survey where we are collecting the average income and expense um for for property for Real Estate um providers. Our data won't be able to determine the specific cost, specifically for a smaller owners and landlords. Since that is your exact question, but I I am happy to meet with you. After this hearing, where I can share with you some of the the income expenses that that we know are the average for for rental, housing providers, foreign.

L

Yeah I would love to take a look at that um only because, with this 10 increase, it is taking into consideration some of that maintenance that landlords could do year after year, and so, if it's not covering it, then we can talk about that. I just haven't seen any data on what the average landlord is is paying for these, for these maintenance fees like are they doing drywall and I know that it's a broad range of different things.

L

It's it is drywall, it's paint, it's maybe a boiler in all of that, but I would just like to see more information on that um and and and bring that forth in the working session. So that's my my request through the chair uh and I will um I'll pause there for my my Council colleagues.

E

Thank you I want to make sure that uh we get to everybody before I take my time. So if there's any other colleagues who have any questions before I jump into mine.

E

Councilor Mejia.

I

Hi, yes, um thank you and I just wanted to give a shout out to the bow tie. Gregory I see you um coming here. Fashionably I really do appreciate the fashion statement.

I

um You know, I I have a question I believe it was Karen who had talked about kind of what rent control was like for you and the impact that that you had um and I'm just curious in terms of what lessons can you share with us I'm looking at this from you know, on the other side and and on the flip side of of it right, um because I lived in New York for 10 years and because of the rent control situation, I was able to stay in the same building for 10 years and be able to actually live in West, Harlem um and, and that really helped me uh staying in a city that was really expensive and I'm just curious.

I

You know, as you hear, a story like that. um You know in terms of the benefits of it. Can you just talk to me about uh you know the pros and cons of a rent, stabilization and rent control, specifically for people. You know who are struggling to juggle to make their ends meet and what that looks like yes,.

Z

So, honestly, the pros would be that, yes, it would help. You know people stay in apartments. That necessarily would not be able to afford it, um but on the flip side for owners, it puts a real strain which I you know experienced when I bought my property. You know the fact that it was 220 and I inherit that when I bought, the property and I had to apply for a rent increase. So for me, I didn't have the means to pay for my monthly expenses. So I mean honestly, that's the lessons.

Z

I learned from it, and it was a very you know. You know it was a very costly lesson.

I

Yeah no I I appreciate that you know I am uh because of my uh previous landlord. uh She, um the rent, was extremely below market and, as a result of that, I was able to actually save to be able to buy a home and right now my mom lives on one side and my brother and I share the other. That's the only way we were able to stay here in the city of Boston, which is the reality. You know that so many people do not have. The ability to to do right is to stay here.

I

So I'm curious, you know Gregory, or only as we continue to have these conversations. What would you say are the the you know what what's the what's the common ground here? Where can we get to a way where we can keep our residents here in the city of Boston, and we could do so in a way that um is responsible any any best? uh You know best practices that you're willing to share and how we can find some common ground in an issue that we know we're all trying to tackle.

Y

Counselor I think our vision for housing in Boston would be to be able to give people a progression, so they could start in units but then create housing that as their income changes and grows, they could move up into and free those other units up for other folks to come in and move in. That would be the thing I mean it's been so hard to develop in the city. It's great. It's easy to build at the high end of the spectrum, but it's harder to build for lower income and middle income people.

Y

Ideally, that would be the the way to go so then, ultimately, we could get people out of rentals and have them be able to build institutional, familial wealth to own something, because that's really the goal for a lot of these people to be able to own their own home so that they could build equity for their future Generations I mean it was done like that in Boston years ago, as waves of immigrants came, we got to find a new way to do that here now, yeah.

A

Y

And Karen I don't know if you guys have any comments or thoughts.

I

Yeah I do have a follow-up question for you, Gregory in regards to you know. Just this historical perspective, you know: um I grew up here in the city of Boston. Rent control was you know in in place at the time when I was growing up and then what I noticed. Is that a lot of folks? You know once it was repealed that the folks who who have benefited the most um from rent control were able to purchase homes and and keep it controlled, and then those are the folks who are benefiting from it.

I

um One section 8 transitioned and you know all these units across the city of Boston. Can you just talk to me a little bit about kind of like who is benefiting from the the way where the types of um structures that we have in place? Who are the people who who are benefiting from not having rent control right now.

Y

um Can you ask me the question again I'm trying to yeah.

I

I I just I I guess you know who is benefiting right now from the uh rental market.

Y

Well, we first of all we don't have enough units, so I think we're seeing the rents that we do, because, because we don't have enough product for people to live in, I mean it's interesting because during the pandemic, when a lot of people- especially if you guys have talked about on this on this- and this hearing before a lot of the students left the city, you know rent started to fall because you know because demand had decreased and there was more vacancy.

Y

um You know the student issue was one that Boston's been grappling with for years. If we could find a way to get them back on campus we'd free up, more housing, I think there would be some relief in the rents so number one right now, I think a lot of renters really aren't benefiting because we don't have enough product and if we could create more product, I think all renters, especially Market renters, would benefit. I. Hope that answered your question and by the way, thank you for the comment on the bow tie.

I

Yeah being a fashionista I always got to like pay attention to these things, but I'm going to you the rest of my time, because I know we have been here for three and a half hours. I've had a wardrobe change in between all of that, so um I think I'm going to defer the rest of my time. To my colleagues, if any thank you.

E

Thank you, councilor Mejia, uh councilor, Lara, I, see your hand up uh and then uh I'm not seeing anybody else having questions for this panel, so I will then go after you counselor Lara. But the floor is yours. If you have follow-up questions.

N

Thank you so much chair and like councilor Mejia I, have also had a wardrobe change because it is February break and my kid spilled. An entire tub of butter on the floor, while I have been in this earring, so I apologize, one for being off camera and also for asking my question separate, but I had to um listen in and also run to clean that mess up.

N

And so you know, counselor Worrell earlier told a story about how his aunt owning her home, was able to charge lower rents to family members and friends, and that charging lower rents allowed for them to save up and purchase their own homes, and the reason why I want to bring that up is because rent control, part of part of the squeeze that we're seeing uh in the market right now is that people who would typically be leaving the rental market to go purchase.

N

Homes are not leaving the rental market to purchase homes because they cannot afford to purchase a home, and so those people also typically that tend to be people who are making a higher income. And so we have people who are staying longer.

N

Who make more money who are staying longer in the rental market as well and they're, unable to move on and part of the reason why councilor Willow story is so important is because lower rents allow a lot of people uh to save up more money to ultimately move out of the rental market into home ownership and open up the space for somebody else to rent now.

N

The average savings for somebody who was rent burdened- do you know what that is for somebody in the state it's ten dollars. Those are the average savings for people who are remembered in Boston.

N

45 of renters here are rent burdened. Do you know what happens when people are not rent burdened and they're paying rent, either at or below 30 of their income?

N

They get an average of nine thousand three hundred dollars a year back in their pockets, money that can be used to start a business, to reinvest to purchase a home to do X, Y and Z, and so we're talking about we're talking about 10 here right now, I understand specifically Karen the stories that you're telling about your inability to charge, rent and your inability to cover your expenses.

N

We're talking about 10 here we're not we're not talking about exorbitants allowing for exorbitant amounts of charging. This is anti-gouging and based on your testimony. That's not what you're talking about you're, not talking about antagon you're, not talking about gouging rents, you're talking about raising enough raising the rents enough, so that you can cover your expenses and so what the proposal that we're talking about here today is not for landlords like you.

N

It is for people who are doing the opposite.

N

So when we want people to be doing better economically to be able to afford their rents to be able to pay for school to send their children's to go to college. What we want is for them to have more money in their pockets to afford their rent. So my when I think about one transitioning to home ownership Gregory, as you mentioned right, having people kind of move, then what we. The reason why rent control is so important in that instance, is because it puts money back in people's pockets.

N

That allows them to save up more money and be able to put a down payment, save up money on a house and move on from the rental market. And so we agree in terms of what needs to happen. But we're disagreeing on how you get there and I'm. Not really, you know the numbers are not adding up in terms of how you know why you would opt to not give someone an extra 9 300 in their pocket if the goal is to get them out of the rental market and into home ownership.

N

Now I understand that and and Karen. This might be a a question for you. How long have you.

R

Been a homeowner I've owned my property for 32 years. Okay, and do you are you do? Is it owner occupied? Do you live there? No, so I have a three family.

Z

And I have a single family in Boston and.

N

You bought your single family first and then bought your.

Z

No I bought my uh triple deck of first and then I bought my single family, great.

N

Can you tell me a little bit about why you decided to purchase a Triple Decker the first time instead of a single family, because.

Z

I wanted to um build equity I had a small child. I had a two-year-old and I was thinking more future pacing to put her through college and have enough funds to do that. So I bought a triple deck.

N

About it, so you bought your first home was an investment property. It.

R

N

Like okay, yeah and so one of the things that I understand about investment- and you seem to be also very Savvy yourself, because you had the forethought to purchase a Triple Decker- is that Investments can either be profitable or they cannot be profitable. As with all Investments. That is the case.

N

True I understand that as an elected official and as the chair of the housing committee here on the city council, my job is to make sure that my constituents have a roof over their head and it's not my job to make sure that your investment is profitable.

N

And so, although I'm very happy that your investment was profitable and I'm very happy that you now have your Triple Decker and that you were able to buy your single family home and that you've built equity for your family and I'm, especially happy because you're, a black woman- and you were able to do that- and that's something. That's really important for people like us.

N

This, like I said, is not a proposal that is targeted towards people like you who are just trying to bring in enough income to cover the cost of managing your property. This proposal is for people who are gouging rents and so again. Similarly, there's no no disagreement, um and so I just wanted to make sure that I said that, because the numbers that show that ensuring that renters are not rent burden actually help the housing market are there.

N

The data is there and the reason why I asked um miss cuffy about the research is because that's not independent research and the research that we have is right like so. It's really important to like when we're hearing things, especially when we're on the record, and we have our constituents and people in the city of Boston, listening that we're fact checking and we're making sure that we're giving people correct information.

N

um So thank you, chair for my time and I will see the floor. Thank.

E

You councilor, Lara and I guess that now makes it my time to speak. uh I'm glad you are here with us as sort of opponents to this I think it's important that we hear from everybody. I am a proponent for this uh and I think one of the things I want to touch on uh is Mr vasil.

E

You uh mentioned your concern about the impact on uh density or building or future construction, which you believe is is sort of a tool or the way out of uh the uh displacement that we're essentially seeing in our communities and I agree that construction that development, that density uh are things that are important. I support it in my own District I try to push for more housing uh so that we can actually put people in housing, but.

A

I'm also very cognizant.

E

Both through lived experience through experiences of people close to me of uh calls and concerns that we hear from constituents that displacement is a very real thing. All the data shows us that it is very real and that there is a sort of emergency right now, and so the way that I see proposals like this one, which I'm supportive of, is a proposal that essentially attempts to uh stop the bleeding. Is it in cure-all? Absolutely not there's no such thing as a cure-all to the issue of displacement.

E

I've always said you know when I was running for this seat. To begin with, uh this is a number one issue. If you look at all of the polling that we get on any race on any sort of, what's the major issues to the city, housing is always going to be right up there and it's because so many people are unable to stay here.

E

I know that we to talk about uh you, you brought up the pipeline of sort of buying or living in apartments and moving into sort of home ownership, and the issue with that is where we are now uh where people are seeking. First last insecurity, and that can run you anywhere uh from you know, on a on a good day, maybe you're paying 7 500 on a bad day, maybe you're paying double that uh just to get into an apartment.

E

The ability to save the amount of money that residents of Boston are spending on their rent is well over 50 percent of what they bring in there's an inability to put together down payments even for that housing and I, just kind of want to address uh some of the research that was done by policy Link. In 2019.

E

uh They published a report that you can find online called our homes, our future, and it did details specifically rent control and how it can help with stability, and one of the things that I found so striking is that, in the push to end rent control, there was an argument that it would drastically or dramatically increase construction uh and what actually ended up happening is, after event, control ended in Boston, Brooklyn and Cambridge in 1994.

E

The cost of rent controlled units, as well as non-regular regulated units Rose dramatically between 1991 and 2001 median rents for a two-bedroom apartment, doubled, homelessness, nearly doubled and even though real estate groups had come forward and argued that ending rent control would increase construction, the vacancy rate dropped from four percent under rent control to 2.9 percent four years after those regulations were abolished and.

AB

I think when we.

E

Talk about uh these these even in this you've, heard it if you've been present I believe you have been present for the entire hearing. You've heard pushback on this 15-year window. It's hard for me to understand how someone, who is developing a property and has a 15-year Runway before this would even apply to them is, is unable to ascend actually factor that in if they're, if they're being responsible about how they put this together. I think we've heard from some of my colleagues about Environmental Protections and uh you know.

E

Obviously we have IDP and all these different factors that weigh into the decisions that a developer may be making at any given time and I think that's something we should respect, but I also know that, uh based on the numbers that we got from the city, I believe was 237 thousand hundred two hundred thirty seven hundred thousand individual Apartments uh or rental units. Our population is somewhere around 650 or 700 000.. The reality is a large percentage of our communities exist in rental units um and they're drastically trying to hold on a solution like this.

E

To me uh is a you know: people want to call this rent control, it's really when you're talking about 10 increases so on a 200, so on a 2000 uh dollar unit a year. If you get to that 10 increase you're at 2200, you get it again, you're now adding another 20 220 to that, maybe you're extending somebody's ability to stay in that unit a year two, maybe three to hopefully have these other sort of solutions come on board and come online, but it's difficult for me to sort of hear blanket opposition to this proposal.

E

Is there anything in this proposal that you actually support, or is the proposal as a whole, something that you are an opponent of and it's fair if that is where you are, if you don't support anything in this, that's fine I just want to know. Is there any language within this? This actual document that any of you support, acting.

Y

uh No, we we philosophically, could not support government price controls imposed on housing.

E

And what about the language that has to do with uh just cause evictions and those matter? Those men are things that don't have to do with the actual percentage of a cap on increases, yeah.

Y

No I mean we've; those have been separate measures at the State House that have been bills that have been kicking off for years. That we've opposed. You know historically for quite some time all.

E

Right and so essentially, you stand in blanket opposition of all of these sort of uh specs of this document, as it's currently written, never mind the edits. There's there's nothing in here that you would say edit that and we're good with it. It sounds like essentially it's just blanket opposition to this as a whole.

Y

I mean I think it's currently drafted. You know we couldn't Embrace. This particular measure.

E

Yeah and I think this is what makes that so fascinating to me. Is that I, you know as I sit here and think about where we are I can tell you that in my own family, I've had members of my family moved out, because home ownership has changed and then their rent is increased by 500, 600 700, and so they have to actually move in that given year.

E

uh I think when we're talking about something that resets at Market level, when you have a new tenant, um this just feels it it's interesting because it's so drastically different than what we've had any other mayor or Administration proposed. So in that sense, it's very Progressive.

E

It's very um very much an advancement of these issues, but it's also so tame in response to the need that we feel deeply in all of our communities to sort of stabilize these issues, and so I I am in support of uh looking at how we Zone and how we think about those things, to create density and to continue to further construction and to continue to make sure that we are keeping that pipeline moving.

E

But I think that the response now, just personally speaking for myself in response to that that real crisis that people are having in existing and continuing to exist in the city, requires us to support moving forward, Solutions and I I.

E

Don't think we are in a position period where we can say no at all and so I think it's it's a it's an untenable position that you have, in my opinion, uh because it simply says we see this Rising tide uh and the answer is not to do anything in response to that Rising tide, because it it may impact folks who are currently profiting off of this industry.

E

uh Quite well quite handedly frankly, and I recognize that for folks who have a 15-year in buy-in, counselor Coletta, for instance, who spoke earlier much of the construction in East Boston, wouldn't even qualify for this for quite some time.

E

A lot of the projects that we are hearing about from community members uh as displacement, sort of projects wouldn't even be heard from for quite some time, I think what I was really encouraged to hear is that 55 of our rental units are touched by this, um but I haven't heard convincingly from anyone um why we should go backwards. I've heard convincingly why we should maybe try to promote or promote uh tougher percentages or more protections. I haven't heard a convincing reason to go backwards.

E

I mean we've heard a story about sort of a tenant that someone couldn't get out for a while, which I think does happen. That is some of the risk in being a landlord that you are unfortunately, sometimes uh privy to tenants uh that are not good tenants for whatever reason, but I think when we're looking at the actual need in Boston, I can tell you that I had regular rent increases when I was renting.

E

um My family has had rent increases that go well Beyond in some cases, well beyond 50 of an increase and so which has pushed some of them to move on very short notice with children, and so what I'm saying to you all is it doesn't sound like there's any attempt to compromise on this issue, which makes it very difficult for me as chair and as a counselor, to take into what you're saying as something that's actually going to advance the benefit of our constituencies. And so you know I appreciate you being here.

E

I appreciate uh your advocacy for who you are advocating for and I want to give you the space to advocate for them, but I just want to also be very clear and straightforward. That I disagree that I do believe that these things are helpful, that they move us along and that, frankly, if we were just negotiating between the city council and the mayor, I believe this would be much more aggressive.

E

I think the fact that we have to get this through a state house in the legislature that has, as you have said, has kicked around some of these ideas. For a very long time requires us to come in in a more uh I wanted, I want to say accepting term of sort of the limits of what that requires, but I think personally, uh I can't see a situation where this does not move forward uh going forward, and so I appreciate your advocacy, at least from the council standpoint.

E

I, don't see a situation where we wouldn't move this forward uh and I just wanted to note that, from the standpoint of what I hear every day from my constituents from people that I know that people who I love, who have lived in this city for a very long time, it's incredibly difficult uh to do. What we're trying to do here, which is continually remain here and to live here uh without some kinds of protections and stabilizations and I, also accept your point that this is not a cure-all.

E

This will not solve all of these problems. In fact, the fact that it has that 10 in case of inflation increase means that maybe we're buying people in essence, two three four years, but that might be two three four years for somebody to finish: High School. In the same address that they are starting in, that might be two to three four years for us to get other things online for them, and so that's incredibly valuable and important uh work, and so I want to. Thank you all for your time here on the panel I.

E

Don't know if you want to respond to any of that I'm happy to give you the time Mr vasil or anyone else who would like to respond to sort of those concerns and then I think we're going to go to the next panel. If there's no further questions from my Council colleagues, if any of my Council colleagues have questions for this panel, please raise your hand and we'll go to you, but I want to give you a chance, uh Mr vasil and anyone else on the panel.

E

If you would want to respond to any individual aspect of that, yeah.

Y

Mr chairman, thank you, um I, absolutely respect your position and I want you to know that that we as an organization, would always be willing to sit down with you and the mayor to talk about this and see. If you could convince us to change our position, we welcome that opportunity. Sam.

E

And I welcome you to change my uh I appreciate it. uh So I don't know if anybody else that doesn't seem like anybody else has any questions uh remaining for uh this panel.

E

I will also just say to you all, because I know you represent organizations similarly to Advocates, who are coming on March, 2nd that listening, Community listening session is for you as well, uh and for who you represent so folks want to come in person, March, 2nd at 2 pm to speak, or virtually uh that will be available to them as well, and so I want to make sure that you also let your folks know that we are having that Community listening session so that we can hear from all sides as we go through this process.

E

So thank you very much um with that. I think I'm going to release you as a panel. Obviously you can stay on if you would like to stay on, uh but uh thank you for your time. I know for some of you. This was your first time in front of the city council. So thank you for coming and for taking the courage to speak publicly. Thank you.

Z

E

You uh we are now going to go to uh our fourth and final panel before we get to community content. uh Community uh comment: uh that's our small landlords panel uh with Carolyn Lomax who's, a small business owner Andres del Castillo, who is a lead organizer for City Life, Vida, Urbana and mod heard, president of the New England United for justice, and so, as our small landlords panel I'm going to now give you the floor.

E

I want to also be cognizant that we have a Black, History Month event that is starting I, believe in like 15 minutes, and so some of my colleagues may be jumping off to do that. And so, if folks have questions for this panel, uh please raise your hand now. So I can get to you quickly uh in that order. But I want to give the panel the ability to introduce themselves and sort of make an opening statement.

E

E

We can start with um Miss Lomax.

J

Yes, hi and uh my name is Carolyn Lomax and I'm. A small landlord law business owner in Dorchester I have seven tenants. Three of the tenants share a space I support, rent control because I know corporate investors have been using a technique called price budget to cause small homeowners and tenants to be forced from their homes. I'm a mother who works more than 12 to 14 hours daily to cover basic needs. Gentrification is not new to communities of color.

J

It is now seeping into all communities, giving investors power, divide properties all over our neighborhoods and the city, creating a domino effect of increasing rents and mortgages, using fear the agony of defeat to justify people out of their homes.

J

I support a strong rent control like a three percent cap, no more than five I also believe there needs to be a cap in how much rent after that cap can be charged because I'm invested in the community and I want to see stabilization in my community families have a right for stable housing.

J

Even though I'm a homeowner a man, a landlord, it doesn't mean that I want to maximize profits from people who already receive a whole lot a little bit. We people are barely surviving. Why make us suffer more many of these corporate landlords like Wells Fargo, you know that's my landlord.

J

um It's no secret that price gorgeous another form of gentrification, redlining, oppression, depression, disease and stress of all of those they cause disease. We need rent control because housing is a human right. I appreciate mayor Wolfe's plan.

J

It is a bit high, but we need something to pass so that we can go to the table and say this is what we need. What she's saying is we need a Lifeline. We need to help and I think we can go back and I'm gonna finish with this. When we talk about the housing bubble in 2008 I think we can look at that and see how that caused us to have a um a breakdown that we we sort of shut out cells down, that we could not.

J

We had to get on the front lines to save people from losing their houses and our corporate. The Predators are getting a tap on the hand, but I'm gonna uh leave that and I'll come back. If I can.

E

Thank you, Miss Lomax, I'm gonna go to Andrea Estelle uh Castillo I know that Miss heard is having uh some technical difficulties. So hopefully we get those sorted out, but androscale has still. If you can even open it.

AC

Thank you, chair Royal members of this committee and all the counselors for your attention on this critically important issue. My name is Andres del Castillo. Many of you know me as a long time advocate and organizer on housing issues. First I would like to extend my deep gratitude to Mayor Michelle Wu and her Administration. This is a necessary step in an overall housing policy framework that can stabilize our city and set an example across our state. However, this is not an easy position to take.

AC

Many corporate and big money interests have already announced hundreds of thousands of dollars in an opposition campaign, and that should say something to the counselors here so once again to the mayor, the administration, the chief of housing. Thank you today, I come to you as a concerned, homeowner and constituent. Less than a year ago, I was able to purchase a home in East Boston effort. I saw firsthand how prices today practically assume that buyers will displace current residents.

AC

We have a multi-family, we, we have a multi-family, so this has now made me a renter, a word I use intentionally because many small homeowners know, as Carolyn just said, that the true owner until the day we pay off the loan, is the bank and since my partner and I purchased, we've had two pipes leak and have had to go significantly out of our pocket as a renter, my partner as a renter, my partner and I, have had to do hard math to see how low we can keep.

AC

um uh We can afford to keep our rents. However, as we couldn't afford new construction or a recently renovated property, ours needs TLC and it lets you know when it does I say all this to say that I get concerns. I get the concerns of fellow homeowners when they hear all the lies spread by the industry, that will lose our homes, that property values will tank or that all the development will stop. That misinformation and disinformation and fear-mongering is something that I hope. We've learned to recognize, particularly in our policy making.

AC

This ordinance gives ample, in fact, in my opinion, too much room for rent increases. This has exemptions for small homeowners. In fact, it indicates exemptions for those owning six units or less. This proposal will give the exceptions to homeowners like myself, who need to adjust rents according to costs. In fact, as I learned in the Housing search, FHA loans for first-time homeowners don't cover above four units, because the federal government recognizes five units or more as an investment property that policy this policy actually gives more room than the FHA loan policy on.

AC

What we consider to be a small homeowner homeownership is a social responsibility. This is why we have ISD making sure internal conditions are livable and that conditions of one property don't create hazards to others. This is about regulating corporate landlords, not small homeowners. To that end, I say: please understand that corporate landlords often try to hide behind working-class homeowners, like myself, do not fall for that owning 12, 20 or 50. Plus buildings is not a small homeowner, that is a corporate landlord and they do not speak for me or any homeowner. That I know.

AC

I also want to address one particular narrative or argument I hear on new construction, an argument that centers new construction as a solution is not a solution for today's crisis. What that perspective fails to acknowledge is that our families are being evicted right now, they're being displaced right now. This cannot. This city cannot build its way out of the responsibility it has to bostonians under Threat by the housing crisis here and now. Bostonians are disproportionate.

AC

Bostonians excuse me that are disproportionately black and brown that are working class to pursue, affordable housing construction depends in fact on stabilizing residents. Now it depends on strong rent control now so that they may be here when affordable units do come on the market, especially with how competitive getting an affordable unit is. This is a this is the necessary policy measure for any other policy solution to actually work.

AC

The argument that homeowners and landlords will simply let their buildings deteriorate and fall apart, absent the ability to extract as much rent as they wish is frankly offensive. It clearly distinguishes between corporate greed and working-class homeowners, who would never make a decision in that way. Slums have been around in this market absent, rent control. This will remain true as long as housing remains a commodity and greedy corporate landlords are driven to maximize profit.

AC

I say this because, as a former anti-displacement organizer on the ground, I saw it firsthand I entered units with infested with roaches and bed bugs I've entered units with no heat or severe leaks exposed electrical where there were holes in the roofs, and you can see daylight straight through the ceiling.

AC

I recall a building on Sumner Street in East Boston, which was purchased by a speculative investor and flipped in three months for over seven hundred thousand dollar markup. For no reason keep in mind. This building was fully occupied by six units of tenants, including families with kids and had broken being that made the building structurally unsound.

AC

These conditions made tenants, fearful of calling ISD for fear of condemnation, leading to condemnation leading to eviction greedy corporate landlords able to continue to raise rents, even in these conditions, and even flip the property for greater value, only creating even more upward pressure on rents. Furthermore, I understand the historical context and experienced some suggest. The where some suggest the process would be two burdensome for small homeowners, but that was also the before the technical Revolution that has taken place in the last 30 years.

AC

This city can and should design an accessible rent board and governance process, and we can, lastly, I'll reiterate with the homeowner's exemptions. This policy must be made stronger. The state house will have the power to amend this policy and, as such, we should lead with our strongest possible policy position, one that protects the most people in the most possible in the best possible ways.

AC

Thank you very much for your time.

E

Thank you, Andres I, Believe Miss heard has uh an issue with the camera, but not the audio. Is that accurate, accurate heart? Can you can you speak.

E

I see you have unmuted.

J

All right so I can't seem to hear.

E

There we go yep you're in we can hear you.

E

We can hear you if you're ready to give an opening, you're muted again.

E

All right: well, we what we wait for Miss hurt I want to make sure we, uh if anyone has any questions for these folks uh I know that it is down to uh just a few of us because of the Black History Month panel uh that we have going on right now, it's hard! You are unmuted. If you'd like to uh give your opening now.

D

J

God we can hear you.

E

Okay, Miss heard, uh if you can uh unmute and just give your opening when you're ready. We can hear you when you do on you.

E

D

B

I

AD

R

E

J

I couldn't hear buddy.

E

Thank you, the floors. You are.

Z

Okay, I'll start right now. Thank you. Thank you.

J

um But sorry about the technical difficulties in my uh my um computer, but they remember the.

Z

City council thank.

J

You for your up for the opportunity to speak out today on a small landlord in Boston on the rip stabilization.

J

My name is Mark Hurd I'm, a proud member of United for justice and I've been involved in civil rights issues for more than 50 years of my life here in the city of Boston. I have dedicated myself to getting involved in social economic, racial justice issues and having practice have that have impacted working force and communities of color I've been in been a Dorchester landlord for more than 50, almost 50 years.

J

um That's a long time. I have two family home in on Epson, Street and I was fortunate enough to buy a home because and become the second black family to own property. On my street, I was able to purchase a home at a time where um people of color was fighting back against redlining and women was fighting uh for our rights to own property in the city of Boston, I have raised my family in my neighborhood and I have changed and had a chance to maintain a roof on my head for all these years.

J

I remember the Minnesota that took for my family to be safe to live comfortable with that field being displaced, I, know firsthand the proud feeling of raising my children in a neighborhood. They still call them today's topics around rent control is a matter of value as a city.

J

It is a moment where we can get to stand up for what's right for the residents of Boston, we must show that we are bold in our actions and practice on the issues concerning housing Justice far too long, large corporations and developers have abused and misused their power in our community and far too long, we have depended on developer as a solution to the housing crisis.

J

Of course, it is one piece of what we need, but if the new development is not affordable for residents to access, then who of rebuilding for as a small landlord I want to say this loud and clear. The arguments you may hear from large landlords are how this will impact small Property Owners is out the window.

J

Owner occupied landlord with under four units are exempt from the policy.

AE

J

We are not doing enough with what a uh what the mayor is proposing to protect. The most vulnerable renters in the city. Covet is not over, and the many years of recovery will need to uh to get through our dose steps.

Z

J

Would like to say I'd like to say the the mayor proposed the rent stabilization, a new development with a 15-year period, the exempt from rent stabilization. We are asking for no more than five years.

J

uh Communities are being first out of the city due to raising rent and residents are forced out of the city. The rent is labor in neighborhood neighboring cities also seen an increase that families cannot afford.

J

Boston Housing problem is everybody's problems, and we need to do more. We hope that the city council and the mayor can make the final decision around rent stabilization that reflect the needs of our communities. Our city is in shame and we have to. We have the power to make these changes. Thank you for your time and thank you for listening to me today. Sorry about this.

E

No you're fine, don't need to apologize for the technical difficulties I. What I understand is that you can perhaps not hear us, but we can hear you so hopefully you can hear us now. um Most of my colleagues are currently uh in our Black History Month celebration uh and so I. Don't think that many of them are here to ask you all questions so I will usually uh I see. Counselor Lara is here so I'm gonna go to her first and then I will go to myself Council. A lot of the floor is yours.

N

Thank you, chair I, don't have any questions. I just wanted to say thank you, uh I think it's incredibly heartening, after a four-hour hearing um to be met with people from Community who own their own homes and are concerned with more than just their bottom line, they're concerned with our communities and the well-being of our community. So I just wanted to extend my gratitude. It is good to know that there are more folks like you out there, so thank you.

E

Yeah I want to make sure I. Thank you all as well. uh I think it's important uh and uh a credit to you and to the city of Boston that we have folks like you uh who are concerned about the well-being of their community and the residents who live in their community and that that means something to them. So thank you for that.

E

As we talk about this proposal, there are exemptions in there for small homeowners and I just want to check with y'all, since you are a small landowner, land uh landlord, small uh I, guess the uh we're calling y'all home providers now, uh since that's a thing uh I just want to know uh it. Are you good with the way that the exemptions are framed for small homeowners? Do you feel like it is expansive or too small, I?

E

Think uh from the standpoint of just my personal position on it, I've always thought six units was sort of where it was I. Remember the Jim Brooks act um and you know to think that we were at the Jim Brooks act where that essentially got gutted before I went up to the house to be here now is is quite a transformational change uh and I think is a credit to where we are. It's obviously not.

E

You know where the problem is it's so large and over that time frame, we've seen so much uh of an acceleration on it that it might not feel like that. But I think that, considering that the way the Jim Brooks Act was handled by this council is one of the reasons why I ran for the council, I think we're in a very interesting space right now and so from the small landowner exception standpoint, because I think this is important.

E

um Do you appreciate the way that those sort of exemptions are written in? Do you think that they could be uh changed in any way shape or form, or is it essentially to to your satisfaction as sort of small landowners and also and landlords uh in that? In that way,.

AC

So I'll respond with I appreciate how they're framed I think there's maybe two pieces of it that that I would highlight to the council. Thank you, chair for the question and, and that is um first I- think that, as I said in my testimony, I do think that six units over low is is a bit generous.

AC

Given my recent experience in purchasing a home where FHA Loans don't consider anything above four units as uh as like a first-time homebuyer Loan program right, because they consider that just straight up investment property, and so just following federal guidelines, I think we could actually just tighten this up to more reflect what actual what the process of buying a home reflects, is a small homeowner right uh and so so just to kind of flag. That piece and I think we could lower that threshold.

AC

I also would like to say that I think you know, as as somebody who wants to continue to move and is very deeply committed to moving with with my tenants in a way that that is ethical and grounded in my principles and values.

AC

One thing that concerns me about the just cause: eviction proceedings and I- want to really thank councilor Lara for for this question to the chief of Housing and the administration is particularly around the piece of Just Cause evictions and whether, when a landlord finds just cause, that then makes um triggers an eviction that is then fault as opposed to just making it, as it normally would be a fault of a no-fault eviction, and so wanting to make that step.

AC

Important right, I think that the thing we want to address is that oftentimes tenants um are asked to move and therefore might enter eviction proceedings by no fault of their own. It's not that they fail to pay rent. It's not! You know.

AC

It may be that you need to move a relative in, and if that is the case, um then or you might need more rent, but they actually can't afford that new rent, and so that may be grounds enough to move an eviction forward, but that shouldn't be considered the tenant's fault right not being able to afford the actual increase shouldn't, be the tenant's fault. It should just move ahead like a no-fault eviction, normally would and so just making sure that the language really captures that distinction I.

AC

Think for for those of us that you know want to be able to always move with our tenants with deep Integrity I. Think it's important that this policy kind of have those values built in.

E

Thank you. That's helpful uh to me in a way that I think about it. um I see that we have other counselors here with us. I don't know if anyone else has. uh This is our last pen before we get to community comment. This is the small uh landlords panel uh councilor Bach.

F

uh Mr, chairman I, don't have any questions. I I just wanted to thank the panel and also say I, as mentioned, I had to go away for religious service, but I've been watching for the last hour as I've been um coming back, so I saw the real estate panel and also um the small.

F

This group and I will be watching the follow-up, but I just I really want to Echo counselor Lara's sense that you know I mean you, don't you don't have a community of people can't live in community um and it's it's just so important for all of us to be thinking about this issue that way and I think like most bostonians, you know people have real Community relationships across this line of renter and landlord right.

F

We've heard a lot today about um folks who you know they help make a place for other bostonians in the city and so I think it's important when we talk about this issue that you know where it's not it's not like renters versus landlords, it's about kind of like. Are we gonna have a community, or are we just going to talk about housing as a commodity and and one of the things that um that distresses me a lot when I think about kind of just housing policy realities um in our contemporary moment?

F

And it's one of the reasons that I'm particularly uh fond of the many cooperatives in my district is that um you know I do think that we can get ourselves in a situation and I think it's some of what you're hearing today, where part of what people are saying is we're invested in policy failure like it's a policy failure when families can't stay in the city of Boston and when we don't create a path for that to happen for people of all incomes and if, if people are saying I need that to continue to be the case, because that's the return that I'm banking on then I think it's really just important for us as Government to say that um you know we can't.

F

We can't allow private interest in public policy failure to be a reason to extend that failure further and further. So I just I wanted to say that and to thank the panelists and to apologize um for the fact that I had to step away for a bit today. Thank you, Mr chair, thank.

E

You and thank you to our panel I, want to again extend that March 2nd. We do have a community listening session. I want to uh make clear that I am grateful to all of our community, Advocates and and residents who have taken the time to sign up for Testimony I will hear from every single one of you who has signed up in his present uh right now. That is 60 individuals.

E

We're going to do uh two minutes each which, if you're doing the math, means two hours of uh Community comment uh and so I want folks to know if that is too long for you. If you are on the back end of that, if you want to submit it in writing, you can do that at ccc.go boston.gov.

E

If you would like to come back on a day where all we are doing is listening to Community comment that is March 2nd at 2 pm, we will be doing it in person and we will also be doing it uh through Zoom so that you can have both options available to you on that day. uh So if this is uh late in the day we started at 10 A.M, it's 2 40 p.m. uh Please know that there's also March 2nd.

E

um We are going to then go to our community panel. I just want to thank uh it's not really I. Guess it's a community panelist! It's Community comment, but we will be making you panelists. As you give your comment, um we are going to hold you to two minutes. I will uh have them mute you at two minutes, so we can get through this whole process. I want to hear from you, though, so if you have more than that, and you would like to submit your your thoughts in writing.

E

If you have that written, that's awesome uh send them at ccc.go at boston.gov or please. If you can come in on March, 2nd uh and just because you speak today does not mean you can't speak on that day as well. um Councilor I, don't know. If your hand is racist, just sort of give a closing statement or.

E

All right perfect, uh so thank you to the panel. You are free to stay on or to uh head off on your day. Thank you for waiting. I know this has been a long hearing for you. All I also want to just thank Central staff uh for helping us go through this, and I also want to thank our Spanish interpretation uh for being with us today and working through all of that, um as we go through the community comment list, uh please bear with us. uh It is an extensive list.

E

Not everybody is here, and so as we go through it, uh we may call for folks who are not here yet uh or are no longer with us um or never arrived. So uh I I want to make sure if you are an attendee to make this process easier. Please raise your hand as an attendee. Also, please change your name to the name in which you signed up for public comments.

E

So if you just have a first name- and we have you signed up, but we don't know what the last name is you won't get put in. So please, please change your name on your Zoom to reflect your your name as you signed up that way. We can actually identify you correctly and Elevate you to panelists.

E

um The first person will be uh PJ zunarrowski, uh who I think is on here, is PJ Sheldon.

E

Also John Sheldon, if you are here.

AD

Hey Ricardo, can you hear me yes,.

E

You come in clearly right.

AD

Thank you, I. Thank you this. You know it's been a lot of moving testimony. I moved here in 1985 to go to Boston College at 18, so I've been a Boston resident and a homeowner for a long time. Ricardo. Let me answer for you what the Greater Boston real estate board could not address here's the problem with the proposal and I agree: I mean a six percent or a 10, whichever is lower, is not going to stop displacing tenants. I mean I, appreciate what I heard from Carolyn my fellow landlords in Boston and Andre's.

AD

Congratulations for being a homeowner. The problem with this as written is in section 2, e, f and g. It says the city May provide for fair return standards for the regulation of rent, which may include, but are not limited to changes to permissible rental rates. Let me read that again, the city May provide for Fair return standards for the regulation of rent, which may include, but are not limited to changes to permissible rental rates. This needs to be removed.

AD

This is going to get us to where we were back in the 80s and 90s when I moved to Boston when landlords couldn't get any increase. That was fair. I mean three to five percent yeah. That's even you know. If we didn't have this hyperinflation what's going to happen, is you go to section F the city May set tenant notification and Rental registration requirements and the City May establish in G or designate an administrator or board to promulgate regulations? So here's what's going to happen.

AD

What we already heard from the city councilors today is renters far outnumber property owners in Boston, so small Property Owners such as myself, I own, a two family and three condos and three separate buildings in Austin, Brighton I, don't own a building I'm, not not displacing my tenants, I'm, not regularly increasing my rents, I keep them the same. Pro-Tenancy I'm, not the problem. The problem is the big developers that want to sell out and create this density that we're all having to live with and I.

AD

Don't understand, you're going to give developers a pass for 15 years, you're going to create a ring control board. You'll put three tenants: you'll put two Property Owners, like they ended up doing in Cambridge during rent control and then six or fewer units that will get taken away off the table uh of six to ten percent that'll be taken away. It won't even be three to five percent it'll be one percent if you're lucky. This is the problem with this bill is written.

AD

No I am not against legislation to permit prevent displacement or price gouging of tenants. I would never do it. In my own, Community I have been in Austin Brighton since 1985, but this cannot go forward as written e, f and g in section two must be removed. We cannot be subject to the willy-nilly rent control board, who's always going to be tenant.

AD

um You know tenant, heavy and tenant interested and then just just take away our rights as property. Thank.

E

You for your testimony, you're at uh three minutes I want to. If you have a closing sentence that I want to make sure I, let you get it out. I'm trying to I know that you all have waited very long to speak, so I want to make sure everybody.

AD

Has waited so long Ricardo, we are not against displacement and price gouging, but this legislation goes far beyond that. It's dangerous and it needs to be amended at the city council level. Thank you. Thank.

E

You uh I believe we had next have John Sheldon I see there is a John with his hand up in the attendees section, if you can just amend it so that I know that it is John Sheldon uh and we can call you up.

E

uh Is we have Raphael H I, don't know if he is here.

E

A

E

Can you hear me John, yes, is this John Sheldon it.

AF

Is John Sheldon, perfect.

E

Thank you. You have a little bit of an echo, so I don't know if there's another device on.

AF

Yeah; okay, that was that that's.

E

AF

Floor is yours, um I'm, a United, States, disabled, veteran and um I I served my country to fight for our freedom and which includes the Bill of Rights. I feel the last time did um the last time this. This uh rent moratorium. Excuse me for nothing. I'll speak clearly um came up. I said the same thing and I'm going to say it again, but I feel my my uh First Amendment rights are being violated, I have property and I should be able to enjoy the property.

AF

I pay taxes to the government uh for for the rights to I, guess on this property, and yet the government wants to take this property from me without just compensation.

AF

I think that's unfair I think that's the big elephant in the room. No one's talking about I! Think because lately people are getting canceled and and destroyed by uh woke to uh whatever you call. It woke up.

AF

Bulkness I think that people are afraid to to uh say anything.

U

AF

Property rights, no that's all I, have to say uh so um again. um I fought with this first state for uh our freedom and uh part of the freedom is the own property. Reading clear and uh anyway, that's it for me.

E

Thank you, sir, for your service, uh and thank you for for being here and and sharing your opinion. uh We are going to go down this list. The best we can uh in order uh is David Barrett here that was Prince Worthy.

AD

E

Is David Barrett here.

E

We're gonna go down. This list uh is Reginald Stewart Reggie stored here.

E

If you are signed up for public comment, can you just raise your hand so that it's easier for us to locate you.

AG

Can you hear me? Yes all right, this is Dave Barrett. How are you are you, a member of The Institute of Real Estate Management, and we have 20 000 members and we're affiliated with the national um Association of Realtors, which is uh about 1.5 million members? And you know the biggest issue. That's facing apartment rentals in Boston, as some of you have mentioned, is the shortage of inventory, and we should really be incentivizing developers to build here to increase the inventory so that we can create competition and soften the rental prices.

AG

I know that from listening, um some of you have mentioned that and I do appreciate all the thought consideration that the council is putting into this.

AG

um The uh you know I had I had heard mention that you know we're not concerned about profit, and you know we're concerned about the tenants um you know. I do think that uh again, not all landlords are are bad landlords um and not all of them. Price gouge, in fact, I think it's probably a smaller percentage.

AG

That's doing that and creating a bad name, but um we do have to be aware that developers do need to make profit if they're going to build housing in Boston and we need the housing we have a major housing shortage, so discouraging uh developers from coming in here and building is, is not really good for the future of Boston. uh Rent control has not worked the way it was intended in a lot of the locations where it's been enacted.

AG

um It did I realize this is a different uh proposal now, but it did fail miserably when it was enacted in in Boston in the past, and there was no increase in inventory. In fact, there was a six percent decrease in inventory during that 20-year period that this was enacted.

AG

uh That's definitely not healthy for the city of Boston. um In this current climate, you know the loss of six percent would be about 14 000 units, uh the people of Massachusetts abolished, rent control by a Statewide referendum.

AG

um You know, rent control does limit, you know, and it has in the past, created deterioration of some of the buildings. It definitely uh contributed to um inventory shortages, uh so it really a lot of the real estate. People and owners are very gun shy about it uh because of their past experience with it, which was not, which was not a really good experience.

AG

um There's other Provisions in here. As far as limiting you know, an owner's ability to get a property vacant to do construction and renovation.

E

Three-Minute warning there uh Mr Barrett, if you don't mind, just uh your last thought on that this three minutes in okay.

AG

So you know if people do need to, you know, have the ability to have their their ownership rights as far as being able to change the use and um to be able to do renovations to their property and I.

AG

Think developers are going to look at this, even though they have the 15-year leeway that you know it may not be appealing to build in Boston, because you can't get your property back, you can't get it vacant, you can't renovate it um or it's a little harder to do those things so I just want you to be aware of those factors, and thank you very much for your time. Thank.

E

You Mr Barrett for your time: uh Amir Shah, Savari,.

E

I know: I see you with your hand up. uh Have we already transferred them over? Please make sure when uh they ask you to become a panelist, that you click yes, so that we can take your testimony.

AH

Good afternoon I'm, sorry, sir, can you hear me no.

E

No you're fine, yes, I can hear.

AH

You thank you very much. Mr Arroyo, my name is Amir Shah Savari I am the vice president of the small Property Owners Association, also known as boa. We do represent many housing providers, many of whom are female, many of whom own small businesses, a lot of them are females minorities, and uh you know family members who have kept their properties within their families. I just wanted to thank you for this opportunity. I wanted to say just referring back to what one of the previous gentlemen was saying.

AH

We have to rethink our definition of what a small property owner is because most small Property Owners fall outside of the category of those who live in owner-occupied buildings with six units or less a lot of US own many more units than that, because it's not really about the number of units that you own. It's really about the size of your business and the degree to which the owner manages the business directly.

AH

Now uh the the previous person who spoke- uh you know he spoke eloquently and I agree with him about the effects, the devastating effect that rent control had it's a policy that doesn't help the people it's supposed to help. It helps generally helps wealthier tenants more so than other tenants. uh If you look at what happened in Saint Paul recently, in other places, uh construction has halted.

AH

We know for a fact historically that it does lead to disrepair uh which is not good for tenants, but, moreover, when it comes to just cause Provisions, uh it's not fair to say that a tenant has every right to continual lease or renew a lease. While the property owner does not have that right, a contract should protect both parties. It should be fair to both parties and contrary to what some people may think, if you spend. If, if we hear from more property owners in general, you will understand that eviction is always a last resort.

AH

We love our tenants. We don't want to evict them, but evictions take a long time and they're very difficult, not only for the tenant, but also for the property owners too. It takes a very long time to evict a tenant. Understandably, some tenants can't pay, because you know it's due to no fault of their own, that they can't pay, but there are other tenants who refuse to pay on purpose and it's equally difficult to get rid of them.

AH

So on one hand, we need to be able to remove difficult tenants, because the people who suffer the most in addition to the property owners, are the good Cooperative tenants who depend on us to provide them with safe maintained places to live. They are our friends, we are their friend and so, in conclusion, there is more to say: I want to be respectful of the time limit that I have, but we have to come up with solutions that are fair to both tenants and small Property Owners rental caps.

AH

Don't work whether it's six percent or ten percent. It's not going to help a lot of people uh Keep Their Heads above water, because the price of maintaining property has also risen quite a bit. So the solution has to involve. uh You know we have to be thinking of all aspects of this. How do we make housing more, affordable, rent control and affordable housing cannot coexist, so we need free market solutions to solve this problem.

AH

We have to incentivize investors and owners and Builders to provide more affordable housing, as well as all types of housing for the diversity of people who reside in Boston and other places. Rent control died in the past. It was buried in the cemetery of failed ideas. Please, let's keep it there and come up with solutions that actually work. Thank you very much. Thank.

E

You Amir for your time, uh Peggy Wang,.

AI

Hi, yes, my name is Peggy Wang um I am um part of the independent socialist group and I work in Boston at the Massachusetts College of Art and Design um and I'm. Also a member of the Massachusetts Teachers Association um I wanted to to come in to talk about how this policy put forth by me or Wu. It really prioritizes the profits of big land owners and developers at the cost of working people.

AI

um I think, as others have mentioned before um this new, this housing could cost um new housing costs. More than ever. Tenants could feel pressured to you know, renew leases or accept large increases to rent, if they're not sure, if they're going to be better Alternatives out there, and um this policy will also make it so landlords have even more control over setting prices.

AI

um So these things are extremely harmful. um Working people um aren't making 10 more every year. um You know. In the past decades, we've seen working people be more productive than ever, 70 increase since 1980, and yet minimum wage has actually gone down since 1980 people are struggling um and yeah I just want to also point out uh Boston city council, the mayor, you know they did give themselves a 21 increase over the next three years.

AI

Recently, um at the end of last year, um when you're, making 100 200k 21 increases are a lot and I think the city council actually pointed to um working people in Boston aren't making um that kind of money. So what what do we actually need? I, I think you know we have an independence. Independent socialist group um think that a meaningful rent control policy would involve a rent freeze for the next three years um with long-term rent control to fight skyrocketing rents.

AI

um Minimum wage actually um makes it so you can pay for any of these um MIT living wage calculator says that for a single person to be able to um afford living in Boston, they would need to be making 22 an hour. So we need to make sure that, like people who like work in our city can actually afford to live in our city, that's that's twice as much by the way um you need to be making twice that much.

AI

um If you have a kid, if you're one person with a kid um rents to be kept at 30 of minimum wage, um we need to be taxing the rich in this state there's a flat tax rate.

AI

um We need to be taxing MIT Harvard, these large corporate um higher ed landlords that have been part of the gentrification. That's happened in Boston Austin. They don't pay their fair share of taxes. If we need to be building public housing um fight the tens of thousands honestly and that needs to be affordable for working people.

AI

um You know we saw a 60 decrease in approved Construction in this past year um to fight for these things. I know. A lot of us are here looking for answers to the housing problem um and I think we need to get organized on this. If we're going to win any gains, um you know working people, community organizations Union, should all be a part of this I'm part of the MTA.

AI

um Our Union should be part of this fight yearly, we get- maybe maybe a two percent increase. That's effectively a pay cut for so many years we've been facing this. We can work with the nurses Union. We can work the teamsters grads workers who've also been finding um their universities, who are both their landlords and their employers.

AI

um You know, there's immense immense amount of power and we need to get organized. We need to start mobilizing. We need to break from the Democratic party um as working people and build an independent Workers Party that can fight in our interests that we can pay for candidates, build a platform um put forth policies that can actually benefit working people. um Housing should be a right, not a privilege, and under capitalism it will always be treated as a commodity for something to be bought and sold to make a profit off of.

AI

So, if you're interested um for we need to move toward a socialist Solutions um check us out independent social script. Thanks.

E

Thank you, Miss Wayne, Uh Marina, freyas,.

AJ

AJ

AJ

AJ

AJ

D

AC

Okay, counselor I I am receiving a live interpretation on the English.

E

Okay, so we're not, but it's good to know that other people are receiving it through the actual airing. In that case, I kind of.

D

uh See it is foreign.

AJ

AJ

Espresso De Renta La sonificacion is Barrio.

AJ

AJ

Biales, yes, foreign.

AJ

AJ

AJ

AJ

Innova contrario organizations.

E

Thank you uh for that. uh I believe Paula I.

AC

I don't know if I can just step in on a technical matter, I think it's important that folks understand they have to select English or Spanish for their language. Yeah.

E

So if you go down to the uh for folks who are trying to do that, there's a button on the bottom that says, interpretation and you can select uh English and or Spanish, and they will that. That would be how you get the interpretation and.

AB

I'll just say that if it's okay in Spanish but I can just guess.

E

Thank you for that. Andres uh councilor Lara is going to take over a community comment, while I present somebody with an award at our Black History Month celebration then come right back, uh and so our next person is Paula. uh If you are here and ready, you can begin your testimony.

E

Whenever you're ready, Paula all right, we're.

AK

Going to log in there.

E

We go yep, we can hear you you're.

AK

E

J

We're gonna leave the login.

J

Okay, all right um hello, my name is Paula core, um the testimonies of The Advocate pan, who was very profound and I. Think you all you all and I. Thank you all for your truth. I am the employee of city like Peter, abana and blessed to work with brother um Antonio and brother Andres, who are key role. Models in our organization, I personally, have been in almost every position of Home instability redlining in the project due to racism.

J

My dad was not able to get a GI Bill to buy a home living under rent control in Cambridge having to move because of eventual High rents to my family, losing uh my also my family, losing two condos and a three family home due to the 200 2008 bubble to being eventually evicted by the homeowners of two apartments for no-fault evictions, I involved myself with City Life, and during that these 2008 and prior crisises, as I volunteered to attend actions and demonstrations for other tenants in the community, particularly Roxbury over the years.

J

I've attended, Court hearings and other tenants to assist them in any way. I can and, of course, told everyone I know who face instability, stability, home stability to come to City Life needed about to learn their rights and from tenant into form tenant associations when they can, as an employer. City Life I see home instability every day, whether it's racist moves of landlords, property owners and property managers and and greedy, racist and greedy, not to mention just downright unfair practices where sorry, where tenants are simply mostly defenseless.

J

Let me be clear: rent control enabled me to finish my education, send my sons to college black colleges and save money to buy a home which was lost during the bubble by homes, as a matter of fact, like my son, also bought a home and have and and have discretionary income for food and clothing. So rent control was vital during that time and I was in Cambridge at the time.

J

Solutions, a much stronger law are not of no more than 3.5 increase in affordable housing, ideas of Home incentives and also producing more home ownership opportunities, even creating more Co-op opportunities as well. To really create home stabilization in the city of Boston in the state of Massachusetts. I. Also want you not to forget about reparations for foundational African Americans, those whose ancestors were brought here over 350 years ago and spent 250 years of free labor, in which we have never been given compensation.

J

As Martin Luther King indicated there was a land grab when particularly white engram immigrants arrived here in America in the 30s 40s and 50s in given land, African Americans and people of African descent were left out of that. So, let's be clear, found them. Foundational African Americans were left out. Unlike the decapitated, a so-called race statue in the Colombians came talked about. America owes us a check. Where is that same on that statue?

J

And, more importantly, when will this horrific damage be repaired, so I 100 for um rent rental uh for um so rent control, and also for fairness for black and brown people of African descent, who were instrumental in building this country? Thank you.

N

Thank you so much Paula for your testimony. The person that is next up is masuka berry, Asuka Berry. If you're here we should let to get in there we go. The floor is yours.

AL

Hello, my name is matsuka berry, I am currently a resident in Cambridge, although I've lived throughout the Greater Boston area for a majority of my life um and I am also a local, creative and educator here, um I moved out of my home at a very young age to escape the systems that made a lot inaccessible to me and the space that I found.

AL

The most piece in was my creative practice and for my survival, I was determined to pursue this as a career and include, and that fight included me finding a home to protect me.

AL

Since then, I've created exhibitions murals contributed to Publications and I, currently have a public art install in the greenway I've also made murals in some of the affordable housing and the Revere every uh area.

AL

My job is to create medicine, for my community use my art as a bridge to the love, visibility and advocacy. My community needs I, finally feel like I've, become a leader in my community, especially being it's the community that raised me and this fact very much warms my heart, but also carries a great pain because in the same way, I've been empowered to fight for my dreams.

AL

Here the city has made me feel like it'll slip away from me at any moment, despite my immigrant parents, bringing me here for a better opportunity as I get older, the weight of reality gets hard to ignore when it dictates if you are allowed to eat.

AL

My household is a home of people like me, of all walks of life with so many beautiful things to offer this world, and every year the security of our home is questioned. Rhett has been constantly raised each year as the jobs we all rely on decline, I speak to you as a new apartment. A new apartment, complex, is being built next door in an alternate world where we have rent control or stability. I would be warmed by the idea of having new neighbors, but in Boston it means some of us will have to go.

AL

I fought for Boston in so many ways, but I've come to see that the scarcity in Boston's ability to fight for those who create the culture here is going to be its demise.

AL

How is it that the very people who created everything you praise the city for are at risk of houselessness? How is it that we claim to be a city of opportunity, Beauty and Liberation if we walk amongst people we deem disposable during an economic collapse during a pandemic?

AL

I've had to have many conversations with myself on at Boston. If my practice here in Boston needs to leave to create space for my safety, I've begun 2023 already trying to create a plan for potential displacement, and many people in my community have pondered the same.

AL

What will Boston claim as theirs once the very Foundation of love and the city disappears, that looks like health care workers, artists, teachers, Etc, the very soul of the city, I advocate for a System created that harmonizes the needs of both tenants and landlords, because I believe in a real future, one with empathy, safety and integrity. I. Ask you to call in those intentions and contribute to a human experience we can actually be proud of. There needs to be some kind of structure. There should be alternative housing for those who have been displaced.

AL

There should be protection for housing for those who have been unemployed, especially during this time. This is a matter of life or death for many people. Regardless of what side of the argument you stand on, humans should not be seen as an opportunity for profit over being deserving of a home. Thank you.

N

Thank you matsuka. Next up we have Isabel, Rivera and I've, been giving folks about an extra 30 seconds so that they can finish up, but just a reminder to everyone that you have two minutes. uh Isabel Rivera. Are you here with us.

AM

AM

AM

AM

AM

N

The next person that we have up is Conrad sizek.

N

Conrad zizak here.

N

No it's about him under time is Conrad is Lisa yeah. Can you hear me yep I can hear you Conrad. You have.

AN

Before you have two minutes, um the first thing I just want to say for the record is that rent control uh was defeated by a very slow margin in 1994 and most of the people who voted against it were outside the Boston metropolitan area. So I just wanted to get that clear for the record. The second thing I want to say is: is that we're hearing all day that building building is going to get us out of this problem?

AN

Well, guess what we have been building I've, been in Boston over 30 years, I have seen so much development, high-rises new apartments and buildings coming all across the place, but they're all luxury price departments, buildings and units at three thousand dollars a month now, four thousand dollars a month and five thousand dollars a month. So, given the speculation of the market, it drives the prices up of all the other properties uh around here. So building is not going to be the solution to the housing crisis. uh What we need is rent control.

AN

We need to regulate the rents, particularly price gouging, by corporate landlords, who are charging rent increases of 20 30 40 percent uh to existing tenants. Now in terms of Regulation, you know the real estate board says: oh we're businesses, we have rights. Well, uh many businesses are regulated. Insurance in this state is regulated by the division of insurance that approves of rates of insurance policies. Utility rates are regulated uh by the Department of Public, Utilities and overall price, and pricing in Commerce is regulated by uh by government.

AN

So rent renter, renter protection is actually consumer protection uh and we're seeing a lot of price. Gouging people who are not just low income are being adversely affected. uh The working class uh people are being affected and priced out.

AN

You have seen an increase in homelessness, you have seen an increase in displacement and if the city of Boston and the area wants to continue being competitive, they need to have affordable housing, and one of these Solutions is to have rent control to protect existing tenants who are contributing in terms of Labor our teachers, our government employees, our Hospitality workers, our maintenance, Plumbing, electric lectures. You need those people within the vicinity and to have an affordable place to live in order to keep the economy and the city, and these surrounding areas operational.

AN

So I am I'm, hoping that the rent control will go through. I will say that the uh 10 percent is a little steep uh that they should keep it as around the Consumer Price Index, because 10 percent of a three thousand dollar rent is 300 a month.

AN

Thirty six hundred dollars a year, that's pretty steep for a moderately the teacher or a government worker or a health care worker uh and I think that the 15-year window for developers I mean I'm, not a supporter of that, but it should quash any uh argument that this rent control uh is going to stifle uh development. That's just pure nonsense. The city of Boston represents opportunity for developers and developers and landlords have been making windfall profits of Epic Proportion for the many years that I've been here. So this is not going to uh stifle development.

AN

It's not going to hurt uh landlords and right now individual landlords are exempt. So I don't buy the argument that's presented by the real estate board. I just want to say thank you for the opportunity to uh listen to us today and I know it's been a long day, so I think I will conclude with that.

N

Thank you, Mr Zizek I really appreciate your testimony. Next up is Molly Morley.

AO

Hello, thank you for the opportunity to speak today. My name is Molly Morley and I'm. A renter in Dorchester I, first want to say, I appreciate the council, taking this uh policy so seriously, and dedicating a lot of time to this conversation, but I want to make clear that this policy does not go nearly far enough to provide renters in Boston the protections they need to survive our profit first Housing Industry. Our priority should be protecting those at risk of displacement, not ensuring the profitability of housing.

AO

The free market prioritizing profits over people's basic needs is what got us into this mess to begin with. So, firstly, a cap of 10 annual increase is way too high and will do little to prevent displacement. The average rent for a one bedroom in Boston is around twenty seven hundred dollars and that's a conservative estimate under this policy.

AO

That would mean an additional 270 dollars in rent per month unless salaries are increasing at a comparable rate which data shows they are not, then this means greater housing cost burden in Boston, particularly for low-income families and those on fixed incomes. Already more than half of Boston renters are housing cost burdened and they deserve better than this feeble policy.

AO

Housing is a profit motivated industry. If we're being honest, it's naive to think that landlords will not try to maximize their profits and seek the highest possible rent increase under this policy. Therefore, at most, this rent control policy should cap increases to match the inflation rate. The policy also excludes a significant portion of homes in Boston. Why make the 15-year exemption retroactive? Why the six unit limit this is a really important moment with this policy, and we should not be timid about it. Renters in all units, regardless of size, deserve protections.

AO

Furthermore, the cap on rent increases does not apply to new tenants, creating significant concerns that it will incentivize formal and informal evictions. Why would a landlord renew a lease with an existing tenant if they can find new tenants and charge higher rent? On top of that, the leading cause of evictions in Boston is non-payment, which is allowed under this proposal's supposed tenant protections. So how does this policy help the most vulnerable renters in Boston?

AO

The concern over formal and informal evictions is especially concerning, considering that tenants don't have a right to counsel and housing court, leaving them more vulnerable to abuse, so I hope the council will take these concerns consideration and strengthen this policy into one that actually protects those at most at risk of displacement. Thank you.

N

Thank you um Molly for your testimony. Next up, we have Betty J Lewis.

AM

Betty Jane Lewis here with us.

AP

AK

Yep there we go thank.

AP

You hi, my name is Betty Lewis. Thank you for having me good evening. Good afternoon.

AP

My name is Betty. Lewis I live in fat on the state AKA Therma at the Tia Mattapan I've, been here for 40 plus years and I've. My community have been going down because of the high increase of rents. They've been imposed, Upon Us by the new landlord who purchased this property in 2019., so our higher rents increases and my rent's from 300 to 400 a month as a tenant in Boston I'm, already spending too much money on my rents on housing.

AP

I definitely support the rent control bill in Boston and I appreciate mayor Wu for inducing this proposal, but it also needs to be uh Stronger.

AP

City live feed upon a fight for collective bargaining contract, with a Max of three percent of rent increases. This is the rent increase realistically for my family, the 10 is too high and I can't afford to high rent increases in this past.

AP

I support the housing for all bill at the state house which ties rent increase into deflation increases, so it would only be allowed two percent to three percent at a Max of five percent. We need rent control to protect us from inflation, not worsen it. I would like to see. Boston city, council and mayor will make this stronger and tie into an inflation rate no more than two and a half two to three percent.

AP

Each year, as I said, I live in a property at fell on the state, and we have been trying to get a contract with these people for five years. We all asking them for five year increase free five-year lease with a two to two and a half percent increase per year, and they refused me with us all the proud to say that people are losing their home because of these new landlords is coming in and raise the risk and making the house a luxury.

AP

But we can't live in them, they're, pushing us out into neighborhoods and far away from our where we are and I, don't think. That's fair and that's right. So I'm asking the city councilman Wu to please look at it and top and cap, not at 10, because that would mean, as a young lady said before me, the rents like right now my rent is like uh will be 300 more to 400 every month.

AP

But if there's 10 go through so I'm saying that you should cap it at two to three percent increase, no more than five percent. So if people can be able to stay in their home and enjoy their family and in the community they're in, we should know how to travel at to a different neighborhood in order for people to come in and take all the homes that we already been in. So we deserve a place to live. Housing is a human right and we deserve a housing so I. Thank you.

AP

So much for hearing me and uh again I asked me a wound, the student council to reconsider the 10 and make it unmaxify. Thank you.

N

Thank you so much Miss Lewis. Next up we have markisha Moore.

L

With markisha here.

N

Hello, can you hear me yep there we go hi markisha, you have two minutes. You have the floor.

AQ

Okay, so um my name is markisha: Moore um I live in the city of Boston I'm, also a housing Advocate, but I am a resident of Boston and I'm. Speaking as a resident of Boston and we've worked on, I've worked on different housing initiatives. One is like we're talking about this rent control.

AQ

Now, where um I've worked on IDP, which is different parts of like lowering Amis um um making bigger set-asides, you know dropping the limit where you where IDP comes in and every the one cost that I hear from people is that these things like everything for affordable housing, is opposed and it won't work. But if we're not doing anything like we see right now, people are saying like this. This won't work.

AQ

We're not gonna, make it better, but we see right now that it's not better um and I am glad that we are having this conversation and trying to do something about rent control because as I as other people have mentioned, and at what from what I've been seeing, housing has become an investment for people and that given lies the problem like people used to invest in stocks and bonds.

AQ

Now, they're investing in housing and when you, when I, hear people saying we need Supply Supply, we just like the gentleman before said there has been so much Supply that Boston has been building building and I. Don't understand it's not uh uh it's not a issue of Supply. It's an issue of accessibility because you can build um a hundred thousand units. You can build 200 000 units, but if you, the majority of the people who live in the city cannot have access those units because they cannot afford it.

AQ

It doesn't matter about Supply, because then the supply is still not meeting the demand, and so the rate, this proposal that we're looking at I believe that this is a a part of you know a solution. There are many different parts of solutions and I think we need to put them all together, but I think that when we come up with Solutions, we can't go on on the front end with.

AQ

This is a change that we're gonna do um to to make this policy and then coming on the back end and negate that change with with things back there. So in saying that I'm saying that the 10 increase we we heard from Tim in the beginning, which I would also like to get um where they get their numbers from Tim and Sheila I, would really love to look at the numbers that they look at to to come up with their.

AQ

You know their data, but he said on average that um the CPI I, hope I'm saying that right is has been 1.9 within the past year. It was like 7.8 or something like that, and so that's what they use to say that we should do CPI, plus six percent, um which would you know like for this year, would be ten percent, but I, don't think I think it should not go above what is just regular in in inflation like we should not. We need to make it more.

AQ

We need to make housing more accessible to people who need housing. um I have a kid. That's in college right now, one that's about to finish high school and I heard. A lot of solutions are, like you know, let's increase section, eight, let's make more section. Eight um vouchers available, I, just wanna, say that as a tenant in in a resident of Boston, nobody wants to be stuck on. Section 8., like the solution, is.

N

I'm sorry to interrupt you but you're at about almost four minutes, so I'm gonna have to stop you. If you have one last sentence to stay before we can move on to the next person. Okay,.

AQ

Yeah, just really quick. The solution is not about making sure that the people, those who have continue to have in the only way that other people profit is that they have to get help. People want to be self-sufficient and so I feel like. This is one step in that direction. Okay,.

N

Thank you so much. Thank you. We're going to move on to Alan Tanner next.

AR

Thank you, madam chair.

AR

um My name is Alan Tanner I am a community organizer with prophetic resistance, Boston and I will get started good morning. Everyone I stand before you today to testify in favor of rank control for the city of Boston.

AR

As you know, rent in the city has been and continues to increase at exponential rates, and this makes it very difficult for tenants to be able to pay their rents as a result, they wind up getting evicted from their homes that they've lived in some of them for many many years for those who have lived in a home for many years, these individuals, when they're evicted, are also leaving behind years of memories. This is a traumatizing experience, especially for a young child, so this also is about public health. This is not just a money issue.

AR

This issue affects other aspects of a person's life and Society from just this one choice over money and profit. This also further exacerbates homelessness issue in the city, so I say it is time that we stop putting profit above people and Implement rent control. Now, personally, I've been in a situation when I live with my mother, where our rent had increased due to an increase in my income, as my mother was on Section 8.. This happened during the height of the pandemic and though my income had increased.

AR

My mothers did not this caused undue stress and burden on her, even with my help of paying over a thousand dollars in rent. um Even for me, this was hard because rank was not. My only expensor Bill housing to me is a basic necessity and a right not something that should be looked at as a commodity.

AR

So, as landlords I understand that it is a business on that end, but for a tenant which I believe that many landlords once were, we see housing as our shelter, which is again a basic necessity of life, so from being in a position of wondering how to manage to stay where I am for even one month longer from the perspective of thinking, how do I put food on the table and pay rent while simultaneously keeping my lights on and my home, heated I, say, rent control is a very much needed as an organizer with prophetic resistance Boston.

AR

We stand with the people who are closest to the pain and right now. People are in pain and the strength Control Ordinance, with the amendment of only allowing a maximum five percent increase, not 10, as is the current proposal, would immensely help. So many residents of this great City that I grew up in called Boston so to the city council, to the mayor, to the governor to the legislature and to all that would hear this message. I urge you to please hear the cries of the people and Implement rent control. Now. Thank you.

N

Thank you so much Alan for your testimony and to everybody else. I'm gonna see the floor back through Rio, who is the chair.

E

Thank you, counselor Lara, uh for taking that time, uh the next speaker is Armani, white uh and I want to thank everybody for their patience. I had to step out to give someone an award for a Black, History Month. uh So thank you, councilor Lara, for for continuing to run this session, while I had to step out uh Mr White the floor is yours.

AS

Awesome, can you hear me, okay, yeah,.

E

You're coming in clear.

AS

Awesome so yeah, thank you all for the opportunity to testify and uh for rent control being back on the table. My name is Armani white I'm, the executive director of reclaim Roxbury. We are a Grassroots organization and our mission is to improve the quality of life and economic wealth for Roxbury residents by preventing displacement and supporting Economic Development. We've held hundreds of community meetings since our founding in 2015, discussing how to slow gentrification in Roxbury and I've, heard many horror stories of unfair rent hikes over the years and all of our meetings.

AS

Folks ask like you know why? Don't we have rent control, what happened and we've had to explain how it was unfairly taken away and how we are researching about how to bring it back and a part of this. This larger movement to reinstated um and it's clear. Our communities need great control and in 2018, I represented reclaim Roxbury as a panelist on then district 7, City, councilor, Kim Janie's gentrification panel in Roxbury, which had so many people turn out um and not just folks from Roxbury right.

AS

It was folks from all over the city who came to testify into the port of the need to fight gentrification with rent control and reclined.

AS

Roxbury has been a part of Citywide assemblies since 2019, hosted by right to the city of Boston, where every Community from Brighton Dorchester you know, East Boston, has shown up and supported this policy and I know mayor Wu, attended herself as a council at the time, and so it's great to see her Administration now moving this as a real policy, and it really is a truly a big moment and I know we need to move fast. We need to make sure this is done right and with that being said, you know just this.

AS

Past summer we spoke with hundreds of residents as we knocked doors to get out the vote um and we're. You know we're still hearing the demand for rent control and stories about long-time residents and Elders having their rents increase by eight hundred dollars a thousand dollars, um and then we, but we also hear stories of slower, rent hikes of a hundred dollars 200 every year that has pushed residents um out over time and break and has broken their budgets while wages have not increased proportionately.

AS

So with that being said, we know that right now the proposal six percent plus CPI up to 10, and while it's great that we have great control being proposed, we want to make sure that it's strong enough to actually protect people. um 10 is too high. Five percent would be a better cap if someone's making is lucky to make. You know 1200 or pay 1200 in rent having that go up by 120 bucks is a big deal, um and so we really want to prevent more justification.

AS

As a Fair Housing Organization advocating for Oxford residents, we feel compelled to testify today to show support from rent control and to help improve the city's current proposal. And while there are a number of great elements, while providing a stronger cap, we'll continue to see Roxbury and other working-class communities gentrified and displaced. So thank you for your time and I'm looking forward to seeing is policy improved.

E

Thank you, Mr White. Our next uh other comment is going to come from Maria Christina Blanco.

E

That one I see you've joined us as a panelist uh when you are ready.

AT

Hello, sorry yep, can you hear me yep.

E

The floor is yours,.

AT

Thank you so much. um My name is Maria Cristina, Blanco and I um live in Jamaica Plain in a um deed, restricted uh bra.

AT

um You know covenanted um condo unit, and so so I'm a homeowner um and I am here in support of strong Grant control measures and of not allowing increases that are, uh you know disproportionate to to our income and um in our cost of living increases, and so I wanted to come out and show my support as a homeowner and to point out that I have, in my deed restriction terms. That say that I can only have my property appreciate at like five percent per year, which I personally think is fair.

AT

I wish that we had a lot more control over the speculative market and that maybe, like all housing should um you know, have some type of a restriction. So people can't be um flipping housing and, and just you know, buying and trading off of a human need, but but that's another hearing, but you know if I'm able as a homeowner to be subjected to um you, know these limits.

AT

um Then then I feel like. Why should the the landlords in this new policy you know be allowed to have up to to six and and ten percent of increases per year be allowable?

AT

um We should really be looking at at you know, stabilizing the rental market in a in a realistic way, and not just um you know, on paper um or or in a performative way, but but really look at what will keep people in their homes and that's the main point that I wanted to make um as a homeowner that I I have a lot of solidarity with you know this rent control um proposal.

E

Thank you so much for your time, uh Sandra to share I, believe you're speaking on behalf of Lenora Pereira.

E

E

A

You're ready Sandra.

C

Hello, can you hear me now? Yes,.

E

C

Oh, my goodness, I'm running between the phone.

E

We can hear you clearly now.

C

I was wondering why other people were having problems but I, see now why? Okay.

C

E

C

Ready, okay, I'm trying to turn one off. Because do you hear Echo no.

E

We don't hear an echo if you hear one, that's fine.

C

But we don't hear one I'll disregard that the day city council, my name is Sandra texiera and I'm, an organizer with New England United for justice. I'm here on behalf of one of our resident leaders, who is out of town and not able to be online I, will be reading her statement.

C

This is on behalf of the north Pereira. We call her Miss p.

C

I am a hall and owner and Mattapan math and I have lived in my community for over 40 years, I have lived and raised a family in Boston I work in the city and have made my neighborhood my home at the small landlord I have a responsibility.

C

My responsibility is to take care of my community, take care of my home and to pass the choice on and to help take care of others. I have witnessed way too much gentrification and displacement, and the impact and pressure this has put on residents in Mattapan and Dorchester and throughout the city. I am standing in support of rent control because, yes, as a landlord, we need to earn our key and run our units, but this does not mean we need to rent our units at rates that cause others harm.

C

I, know the small landlords who live in their property and have less than four units our example. Even with the exemptions I'm running, my units below Market, rent I am not waiting on the city or a rent control Bill to pass I want to ensure families can have a safe and affordable home.

C

We need to look at alternatives to housing such as Cooperative ownership, land trust models that allow residents to build and maintain affordable housing. We need social housing for residents who are homeless and experiencing.

C

The most extreme situations around displacement, I feel a 10 increase in rent yearly is too much. We are still as a nation recovering from covert 19.. We need to support communities during this recovery period, not make life honor come on Boston. We can do better pass the work, control policy that capturing at five percent and let's continue to work on Creative Solutions, to keep our families out and also I hope that it's recognized that the residents have come and gone through this process to make sure their voices occurred and I say. Thank you.

E

Thank you uh for both taking the time to do that and doing it for Miss P. So I appreciate you, I bless you thank you. uh We next have, uh let me just make sure Carla.

AJ

Hello, hello, yes,.

E

You are, you are on and when you're ready the floor is yours.

J

Okay, thank you and good afternoon to everyone. Thank you for the opportunity to be able to speak today.

D

J

My name is Carlo panto Leon, the justice about, and home owner here in the neighborhood of Dorchester in the city of Boston I, also own a small business Boston has been my home for over 43 years. This is where I've raised my family, where I worship, where I practice my faith, where I give my attention to the needs of the community.

J

We do have to get this right. Rent stabilization is about stabilizing the future for renters. Now ah in the city of Boston for the next decade and Beyond, our children need to be able to afford to live in the city that they were born in and they grew up in. Income has been stagnant for the last five plus years. People cannot afford any more rent increases.

J

People are having to move out of the city, they love and have lived in for Generations. We haven't even recovered from the impacts of covet, and yet the cost of living increase across the board. Additional rent increases will put pressure on our families that they do not deserve.

J

Our job is to protect the residents of Boston, not just the residents today, but the residents that are going to be here in the future, in particular lower income families in our city. We need to strike a balance on a balance that allows small Property Owners to have the protection in place, while also protecting the most vulnerable.

J

In our study, we have to remember that we're talking about stabilizing the rent, we're not asking for rents to go back down where the rents are now, we have to live with it, but we need to stabilize the rents go and follow I'm here to say that I support, rent stabilization. We want to see the rents capped to no more than five percent.

J

We I support the exemptions of small landlords who are owner occupied with less than four units or less I support development exemptions, but also want to see a change to the to five years. Not 15 years developers need to be held accountable to rent stabilization protections as well. I do hope that we can pass run stabilization with these changes and that the mayor and the city council can work together to ensure real rent. Stabilization is in place for the city of Boston.

J

Thank you for your time and consideration.

E

Thank you, Miss pantaleon uh I believe we next have Alexander Santana.

AE

E

Just making sure you.

AE

Guys can hear me yeah.

E

You're coming through clear.

AE

All righty smooth, okay, okay, uh good afternoon uh City councilors good afternoon, and thank you for uh allowing the community time to express our voice on this important issue. I, really appreciate that today my name is Alexander and I'm. A renter in Dorchester I want to share my story and experience with you and open up a bit about um my personal experiences on this manner.

AE

I have had many times where I've experienced homelessness and I had moments where my survival meant the need to sleep at a friend's house. I've also had moments where I've had to move out of Boston, even though I've been you know fortunate enough to hold down a job, I couldn't always afford to stay in Boston.

AE

um Another experience in my life with my family and I lived in a car during winter months, where the car was my home, where I was able to get dressed, where I laid my child's head to sleep, where we had shelter, I'm grateful and thank God for good friends who were supportive because being unhoused balancing work in our family and even taking care of my own health. It's not an easy thing to do. My story is not unheard of where I come from. I am also not sharing this.

AE

Just to present another story, I've seen my mother struggle, I'm, seeing my sister struggling I, see my neighborhood struggling to end me. Increases in rent and cost of living continue to be on the rise. Rent control would make me feel a bit more secure and less stressed, or depressed or worrying of tomorrow's rent might rise to a point where I can't remain in my own home.

AE

The decisions to pass a strong rent control policy is in your hands and as one voice in Boston I am here to I am here as that to say to pass a strong policy that would protect residents like me in our communities we need to come. We need rent control, we need rent control to make sense and have an impact. I am here to support rent control with a cap at five percent to ensure low-income people of color have a fighting chance to remain in our city.

AE

Thank you for your time on this issue, I appreciate you guys very much.

E

Thank you for sharing your story, I'm glad you're. In a better space now uh and I appreciate you taking the time.

AE

E

Rebecca Zhang I need you to accept the panelist invite so that you can come up and give your testimony. uh I'm gonna go to Ryan Blackwell that gets sorted out.

AK

Hello am I Audible, yes, he counselor hello, uh council members. My name is Ryan black pronouns. He him his and I've been a renter in the Greater Boston area. For the last five years. During each of those years, there hasn't been a lease of mine where I hadn't been paying at least 40 of my income towards rent. It's usually been more, and, of course, there are many people in the Boston area who pay a far greater share of their income towards housing costs.

AK

So, yes, we absolutely need rent uh rent control, but unfortunately the current proposal is not nearly strong enough as an aside. Rent control, of course alone is not nearly sufficient to address the problems that stem from a basic human need, like housing being a commodity. We also need far more public dollars going towards the creation, an upkeep of social housing, for instance, but back to rent control. Such a measure needs to limit increases to no higher than inflation each year. I think I've heard other speakers offering that up.

AK

Also, the current proposal excludes too many buildings, for example, like we shouldn't, be excluding owner-occupied buildings with six dwelling units.

AK

um According excuse me, Additionally, the proposal's market, reset aspect or lack of vacancy controls introduces a real risk of incentivizing landlords to find a reason to kick out existent renters so as to find higher income ones. We can't have it so Property Owners can just reset their red Spike kicking out residents, also any rent control policy, and it's just cause protections need to protect tenants set to be evicted for non-pavement of rent as that's why the majority of evictions in the Boston area even happened.

AK

Furthermore, like others, I would push back against the idea that housing that the housing crisis has fundamentally one about Supply. Yes, we need more housing and density again like social housing, but that framing that we can simply build our way. Out of this crisis is more than anything about serving real estate interests, desire for more and more profit. It's not an approach about, or at least it's not an approach that centers putting a roof above people's heads.

AK

um The housing crisis is again because of basic human need, like shelter is treated as a commodity when it shouldn't be. Lastly, um it's important to recognize how the state legislature is very much on the hook here too, um if we want to I mean we're talking about home, well, petitions, of course, if we want to put more, uh if we want to fund more social housing, they need to allow measures like a real estate transfer fee.

AK

If we want a worthwhile rent control measure, they must permit one that is first and foremost about preventing displacement, not about just protecting someone's investment or I should say not about protecting someone's, invest in their law. It's got to be about preventing displacement entirely um so I hope, Boston and all municipalities in the Greater Boston area. For that matter, put pressure on the state government to essentially show whether or not they are willing to meet the challenges posed by the housing crisis. I will wrap there. Thank you for letting me speak. Thank.

E

You uh Rebecca Zhang I, see that you are now on so I would like to give you your time to speak.

E

And so you've joined us as a panelist. So just uh if you're ready.

E

There you are, you.

D

S

Awesome awesome, thank you so much for uh here. As a woman in color, an immigrant uh from another country, I, really appreciate all the opportunity this country has given to me. I still remember: I just spend one dollar when I uh can purchase something a bread to eat and I'm still doing the um a street market free sales to God money.

S

uh So I can't afford my living, but thankfully, after 20 years being here, seeing like my other immigrant friends once you're working hard, the opportunity opened to you so I can purchase my own house and be a landlord, and hopefully there's no conflict truly between landlord and tenants because owning this socialism country trying to create conflict and fight between create hate between each other, and we should be a team to work together toward the crisis, because in order to understand what tenant needs- and you also have to understand what challenges that Landmark are facing- otherwise would not be a Christian to be considered.

S

It will only create conflict and hate and create bigger tension among the community. That's not going to be a loving community, so all people's interests should be considered. We should understand why landlord need to increase the rent will happen. It's not because of the landlord's greedy, we're all coming from a place. We own nothing and graduate I have a great relationship with our tenants. We become friends, I eat dinner in their house, but why there will be a complete, different interest.

S

First of all, I would like to ask um if anyone here I think most of the are working professionals and uh how many of you would think five thousand dollar a month um is Affordable for you to rent a house or apartment I, guess the very reasonable believing it has to be minimum two hundred thousand dollar annual income in the family to afford that five thousand dollar rent and I see at our landlord Group C you, the Housing Authority in Boston, offered five thousand dollar voucher to a family of women, with three trial to rent in the whole Statewide and I'm questionable questioning what do the government do with our taxpayers money and, if the money to do good as a welfare to help them overcome the difficulty understand?

S

But this is well beyond necessity that is becoming a luxury. Our whole.

D

You muted yourself.

S

And also it's not a secret, even I've had many black land or tell me um they're, seeing the government paying 80 or 90 percent of the rent.

S

Why the tenants only take 10 or 20 and they start not willing to pay, and many of them should probably would know I, don't know if our our government in sanitized a single mom with three trial, because otherwise, why we've seen so many of the people got in the voucher and the father, not legal, living there, but the physically living there there's so many local, the government, welfare created I think I'm one of three we always know we could not spoil trial.

S

The only good thing we can teach them work hard, do not find excuses and understand each other being respect and understand what caused all the issue as a landlord perspective. If anyone um do not understand why the landlord increase the cost significantly, the interest rate have been increased 100 in the matter of few months and who's going to digest or shelter the landlord's burden, if a landmark could not be helped why we have been victim of all the increase interest rate increase.

S

Just one example: how about real estate tax, how about how about the labor costs? It also almost been double in the construction business, all the maintenance costs. Are we going to have the tenants or the government government to help if all the costs could not be addressed and the landlord has nothing but had to increase in order to be a break-even point, so in all the soft to solve the problem, we had to understand what indeed created the problem.

S

Should our law in uh officer elected officer, to propose and ask the bank, you should not increase the interest rate by certain amount, five percent, if that could be done, I think we have a good communication here. Now we have a hundred percent increase for mortgage rate, so I don't know how we can adjust the problem. Why just put it in the burden as a landlord is because the landlord do not have the good representative in the letter officer who, if that's the case I, would start questioning what happened again.

S

This is what a good thing for all of us to hear is coming from socialism country. We always see in the cultural revolution period in China. Landmark was the number one as the victim and follow, then that attitude or um the whole country become a disaster. To be honest with you in the past two years and I see a lot of control which so familiar with me when I was in China. So if the government become overpowered and trying to take every single right from private sector is a planned economic.

S

If we want to solve the problem, the government has money go ahead, you can build um housing and we I also heard a lot of um good heart land law. I, agree appreciate it and I also see about good people like you. Why not? Just uh if you don't have such the uh economic, birth and financial burden? How about you donate the money and work with the city and to create Rebecca.

E

We almost got to have five minutes here. I wanted to give make sure you get your last thoughts out so that we can go.

S

On I really appreciate it again, my point is that anyone have a good intention, which is good, but you may do the wrong thing to upon the tenants and the landlord as a whole, and we see historically, Massachusetts has the um rent control and even our prior Governor said: that's completely wrong, even when he was a tenant. They they already history tell us wrong. Also, we can see the history in California and New York.

S

It's all linked to become a big disaster, a higher rent, higher housing price and even more homeless I mean we have to have people truly understand a economy, understand properly right and respect. What is the less control and help the market to tell and also increase help together to increase the Labor uh I mean increase in salary I. Think that's probably the way to go instead of, like you, have the free market increase everything by restrict the landlord.

S

That is only not a healthy, a good way to resolve, but it would be create more tension, because the word is C. We already heard 10 and killing landlords.

D

E

A second, if you want to, if you want to come back.

S

I would push your tongue.

E

Thank you. We're gonna go to David.

AU

Thank you, council, member Royal. Thank.

E

AU

I'm gonna pull up my notes uh good afternoon. My name is David Joe I'm, a president of East Boston I've lived in Boston since 2016. I'm in support of the rent control home rule petition proposed by the mayor and would like to see it go further. First I want to note the only reason I'm able to testify today at 4pm on Wednesday is because I'm sick at home.

AU

Thank you to City staff, member Christine O'donnell for answering my email this morning to add me to the comment list I'm bringing this up, as as the hearing is happening during working hours on a Wednesday which likely excludes most working-class working people, voices so I urge the counselors to consider whose voices are missing for the testimony state before Boston I lived uh in Montreal for three years for brentian apartment during school, uh there's, rent control, the financial level in Quebec and I wanted to share my experience with it.

AU

A game I sometimes like to play with friends here, is to ask them to guess the rent for my Montreal apartment. When I moved out in 2016., it was a four bed, one bath ground floor of a Triplex about 1300 square feet. We were a six minute walk from a metro station that was six minutes from downtown, so comparable neighborhood would be South Boston near Andrew Square. We had five appliances of the unit, including dishwasher washer and dryer. My friends would usually guess all sorts of rents usually three to four thousand dollars in range.

AU

When we moved out in 2016, the rent was 1525k in dollars or about 1130 US dollars of today's exchange rate. To be clear, that's the rent for the entire four bed, one bath apartment, not one room. I lived in that apartment for three years and had two lease renewals. Each year, rent went up by 25. So at the first lease we know our increase was 1.7. This is actually technically above the potential guideline for an apartment with our characteristics but by a few dollars, but we're willing to live with that.

AU

There are a few takeaways that, from my experience, I want to emphasize. First, our landlord was fairly decent. All of my friends had one relationships with landlords who were here to get some problems with repairs. One time the pipes at my Montreal apartment froze and I lost water. My landlord came over in under an hour and cleverly disconnected the dryer exhaust tube and pointed at the water pipe contrast took my second apartment in Boston, where my apartment flooded twice and after the second flood.

AU

It took my overseas landlord over two months to complete the repairs when rent control limits the profitability of being landlord I believe this has a positive effect on the quality of people who have become landlords. I felt that the kind of people who chose to be landlords in Montreal are expecting a reliable income, but not to profit endlessly.

AU

Second, my roommates were able to afford much more in rent. My friend and roommate moved to Montville from the bay area for school. His international student tuition was about 30 000, less than in-state tuition California. So, even though he was willing to pay much more in rent due to the amount he was saving on tuition, our president's Montreal did not cost rent of the unit.

AU

We lived in to increase significantly I believe Montreal and Boston are similar in the sense they are destination: cities for high quality schools and good jobs, however, as Montreal had rent control, a limited effect on rent increases. I want to thank the counselors and panel members for your time.

E

Thank you, David. uh That does bring to a conclusion. Our list I want folks to know that we are doing a community listening session. That is both in person and virtual March, 2nd that's a Thursday at 2 pm. You can either testify here in person on that day, uh so you can come to City Hall the fifth floor and testify in person, or you can uh get a link to testify. Virtually on that day, that is March 2nd.

E

You will send that request at ccc.go boston.gov, and we will be happy to hear from you that is a community listening session, where we will hear from you uh and so I'm grateful to everybody who has waited is now 409 PM. This hearing started at 10 A.M. There have been no breaks. uh Thank you to Central staff. uh Thank you to all of my Council colleagues who have stayed on. Thank you to all of our community folks who made a point of being here to be heard. I'm very grateful to all of you.

E

Thank you for sharing your stance and caring about your city and your community. I really appreciate it, and with that we are going to adjourn. Thank you very much.

E