►
From YouTube: Committee on Ways & Means on June 18, 2020
Description
Docket #0618 - Hearing regarding the City of Boston property tax deferral due to the COVID-19 pandemic.
Docket #0732 - Message and order authorizing the City of Boston to increase the Elderly Property Tax Exemption pursuant to MGL Chapter 59, Section 5, Clause 41C, from $750.00 to $1,000.00, effective for the Fiscal Year 2021.
Docket #0733 - Message and order authorizing the City of Boston to lower the interest rate that accrues on property taxes deferred for eligible seniors from 4% to 1%, effective for the Fiscal Year 2021, pursuant to MGL Chapter 59, Section 5, Clause 41A.
A
A
Liz,
are
you
I've
got
one
version
of
you
in?
Can
you
I'm
here?
Okay,
great
awesome,
so
this
other
one
of
you
that's
in
the
attendees.
It's
not
real.
A
A
I'm
calling
this
hearing
of
the
Committee
on
ways
and
means
to
order
for
the
record.
My
name
is
kensey
Bach
I'm
in
district
8,
City
Councilor,
and
also
the
chair
of
the
Boston
City
Council's
Ways
and
Means
Committee.
This
public
hearing
is
being
recorded
in
live
streamed
at
Boston,
Becca,
slash
city,
Council
TV.
It
will
be
rebroadcast
on
Comcast
channel
8,
RC,
n
channel
82
Verizon
channel
in
1964
and
we'll
be
taking
public
testimony
at
the
end
of
this
hearing.
A
So
if
you
watch
this
hearing
after
the
fact-
and
you
would
like
to
testify-
you
can
do
that
afterwards
as
well
and
we'll
continue
to
accept
it
for
48
hours
after
the
hear
today's
hearing
I.
If
let
me
just
ask
staff
if
somebody
could
send
the
counselors,
the
Zoom
link
on
this
I've
had
a
few
requests
just
now.
Today's
hearing
is
on
docket
zero.
Six
one,
eight
order
for
hearing
regarding
the
city
of
Boston
property
tax
deferral
due
to
the
Cova
19
pandemic.
That
was
a
docket
co-sponsored
by
councillor
woo,
councillor
edwards
and
myself.
A
A
Second,
let
me
just
let
councilor
one
of
my
colleagues
in
I'm
asked
him
to
speak
first
to
these
two
topics
that
the
city
of
Boston
has
introduced,
so
that
we've
got
the
background
on
them
and
we
can
sort
of
answer
any
factual
questions
on
those
and
then
go
to
this
broader
question
about
about
the
potential
for
property
tax
deferral
across
a
number
of
categories
and
talk
through
that
with
us.
As
a
council,
I
want
to
note
that
I've
been
joined.
A
In
addition
to
my
co-sponsors,
councillor
Edwards
and
councillor
woo,
we've
also
been
joined
today
by
a
counselor,
ed
Flynn
from
district
2
councilor
lives,
Braden
from
district
9
and
councillor
Julia,
Mejia
at-large,
councillor
Edwards
is
from
district
1
and
counselor.
Wu
is
also
at
large
and
I
think
actually
before
we
go
to
Commissioner
R&L
I'm,
just
gonna
invite
my
co-sponsors
if
they
want
to
say
anything
to
help
kind
of
frame.
A
C
C
The
initial
idea
was
that,
as
we
see
businesses
and
residents
struggling
and
especially
viscerally
small
businesses
struggling
because
they
are
complying
with
government
directives
and
City
directives
that
we
wanted
to
make
sure
to
explore
every
possible
way
that
the
city
could
help
ease
that
and
make
folks
whole
and
property
tax
was
one
way
that
could
provide
a
little
bit
more
liquidity
to
landlords
or
to
tenants
who
have
to
pay
the
taxes
in
a
pass-through
arrangement.
So
I
want
to
appreciate
your
keeping
that
in
the
conversation.
Thank
you.
F
F
So
thank
you
very
much,
but
to
say,
I
think
that
there's
tools
in
the
toolbox
we're
not
using
and
that
possibly
there
will
be
more
people
who
need
help
with
that
particular
plan
and
I'd
love
to
talk
about
how
we're
going
to
get
more
people
on
that
plan
and
looking
at
different
classes
of
individuals
who
might
be
needing
tax
payment
plan
relief.
So
that's
one
of
the
things
that
I'd
wanted
to
say
from
day
one
and
then
the
other
thing
is
you
know,
I
agree
with
councillor
Wu.
F
A
lot
of
it
is
trying
to
be
as
creative
as
possible
with
how
we're
going
to
help
businesses
and
one
of
the
top
things
they
talked
about
his
taxes
and
help
us
out
somehow
some
way,
and
so
I
wanted
to
make
sure
that
we
were
truly
being
as
creative
as
possible.
I
appreciate
the
administration's
elderly
tax
exemption
increase
and
also
percentage
or
interest
decrease.
I
think
those
are
two
wonderful
opportunities
that
we're
using
to
help
people
stay
in
their
homes,
but
I
love
to
balance.
How
much
is
going
to
be
saved
versus?
F
Why
aren't
their
savings
put
on
other
populations
and
then
also
is
savings
at
this
particular
point,
the
most
fiscally
responsible
thing
we
can
do
so.
Those
are
the
questions.
I
have
I,
really
appreciate
you
being
here
I'm,
so
sorry,
is
it
Chief
Commissioner
of
assessing
Commissioner
Commissioner
Commissioner?
Thank
you
very
much,
and
thank
you
very
much
for
being
here.
A
Great
so
I
think
that,
rather
than
go
through
and
do
opening
statements
from
all
colleagues,
I'm
gonna,
I'm
gonna
start
by
asking
the
Commissioner
to
talk
about
these
two
items
that
the
administration
has
introduced
so
that
people
can
add
the
context
on
that
and
then
we'll
do
some
quick
questions
on
those
and
on
its
kind
of
the
substance
of
those
and
then
as
councillor
Edwards
alluded
to
and
councillor
Wu
I.
Think
we
all.
You
know.
A
We
all
see
our
commercial
properties
under
enormous
pressure
right
now,
and
especially
our
you
know,
owner-occupant
small
businesses,
who
are
also
struggling
with
property
tax,
who
have
a
normal
way
of
paying
that
they're
not
able
to
access
right
now,
there's
a
lot
of
questions
about
what
we
could
possibly
do,
for
relief
with
them
and
and
I.
Think
counselor
ed
was
just
alluded
to
the
need
to
balance
a
number
of
things,
because
we've
just
been
talking
about
what
impacts
it
has
this
morning
on
our
programs
in
the
city
when
we
lose
revenues.
A
B
Counselors,
thank
you
for
having
me
for
the
record.
My
name
is
Nick
our
anello
commissioner,
in
the
assessing
department.
The
first
two
things
as
councillor
Bach
had
mentioned
is
I'm
here
on
behalf
of
the
administration,
to
advocate
for
the
passage
of
two
orders
made
by
the
mayor.
The
first
one
is
docket,
seven,
three
two
and
that
is
related
to
41c
exemption.
B
It's
an
exemption
for
our
seniors,
so
people
that
are
65
years,
older
and
they're,
also
income
and
asset
limits
tied
to
the
criteria
of
being
able
to
obtain
this
exemption
so
to
be
able
to
qualify
for
a
single
senior.
The
income
limit
is
just
under
twenty
five
thousand
dollars
of
income
and
for
married
seniors.
It
is
thirty,
eight
thousand
dollars
so
relatively
relatively
low
income
levels,
we're
talking
about
here
and
then
there
are
also
additional
asset
limitations
on
this
exemption.
B
So,
aside
from
their
primary
resonance,
they're
not
allowed
to
have
a
stage
that
would
exceed
forty
thousand
dollars
if
they're,
single
or
fifty-five
thousand
dollars.
If
they're
married,
so
it
is,
as
far
as
these
things
go
relatively
restrictive
and
we're
also
talking
about
an
exemption
for
people's
primary
residence,
so
they
have
to
be
Boston
residents
and
they
have
to
have
been
residents
of
Massachusetts
for
at
least
ten
years,
and
they
have
to
have
owned
their
home
for
at
least
five
years.
B
B
The
baseline
in
the
statute
is
five
hundred
dollars
and
in
2010,
the
city
and
the
City
Council
together
adopted
an
increase
with
to
$750.
So
that's
the
the
current
level
of
the
exemption
and
I'm
here
today
to
advocate
for
that
being
increased
to
a
thousand
dollars,
which
is
the
the
maximum
allowed
under
the
statute
as
it
currently
stands.
B
The
other
thing
to
know
about
this
is
it's
it's
a
little
bit
into
the
weeds,
but
that
thousand
dollar
exemption
can
go
up
to
if
passed.
It
would
be
able
to
go
up
to
two
thousand
dollars
because
of
another
program
that
we
have,
that
maxes
matches
that
exemption
level,
but
that
that
matching
has
to
tie
into
your
property
taxes
increasing
and
there's
there's
some
other
steps
involved
that
that
make
that
a
little
a
little
tricky,
but
it's
basically
to
kind
of
help,
help
smooth
out
differences
from
year
to
year.
Tax
increases
for
these
particular
resonance.
B
B
It
allows
them
to
defer
their
taxes
and
the
deferral
is
until
they
either
no
longer
own
their
homes,
for
whatever
reason,
or
until
the
amounted
tax
deferred
is
equal
to
approximately
50%
of
that
property
value.
So
there's
there
are
a
couple
caps
in
place.
The
statute
allows
for
an
8%
interest
rate.
That's
that's
the
introductory
level.
The
city
in
the
City
Council
adopted
a
lower
interest
rate
of
4%
back
in
2007
and
I'm
here
today
to
advocate
to
have
that
interest
rate
dropped
to
1%.
B
It's
also
important
to
note
that
anyone
who
entered
this
program
before
fiscal
year
2001
those
taxes
are
deferred
at
the
rate
that
was
in
effect
during
that
time
period.
So
it
doesn't
lower
an
interest
rate
for
someone
that
was
already
in
the
program
on
a
prior
year's
payment,
but
it
would
lower
their
twenty-one
taxes.
It
would
lower
the
interest
rate
on
those
taxes
that
are
deferred,
so
any
taxes
deferred
under
the
program
going
forward
would
potentially
be
deferred
at
a
1%
interest
rate
and
not
the
prior
interest
rates.
B
You
know.
Councillor
Edwards
had
mentioned
a
concern
about
what
the
overall
impact
would
be,
because
she's
right
any
program
that
is
addressing
taxes
is
a
burden
that
ends
up
being
shared
by
the
rest
of
our
population,
and
that
is
important
too,
to
keep
into
consideration.
So
we
are
still
processing
fiscal
year,
20
applications,
so
I
don't
have
final
numbers.
There.
I
have
final
numbers
for
2019
and
I.
They
should
be
about
the
same
level
so
for
2019.
B
Deferrals
they're
a
little
more
complicated.
You
have
to
enter
into
an
agreement.
You
have
to
get
your
bank
to
sign
off
on
the
on
the
agreement.
If
you
know
memoriam
something
like
that,
so
it
ends
up
being
a
less
utilized
program,
but
an
important
program,
and
usually
the
people
that
enjoyed
have
a
have
a
real
need
for
it.
A
Great
Thank,
You
Nick
I
was
wondering
if
you
could
just
so.
What
is
the
idea
of
this
I
mean,
what's
the
like,
I
assume
that
it's
related
to
the
Kovac
situation
etc,
but
sort
of
what's
the
administration's
reason
for
bringing
forward
these
two
matters
now.
B
Been
longer
term
residents
had
their
property
values
increased
dramatically,
and
so
then
their
costs
associated
with
those
properties
are
increasing,
but
they're,
you
know
on
fixed
incomes,
and
you
know,
maybe
they
don't
want
to
leave
the
city,
but
we
don't
want
taxes
to
be
what
drives
them
out.
That's
also
also
a
factor
and
the
deferral
interest
rates.
B
You
know
I
think
back
in
2007
when
we
lowered
it
to
4%.
That
was
a
pretty
a
pretty
solid
interest
rate
for
someone
to
get
at
that
point
in
time
and
since
then,
interest
rates
have
been
dropping
a
lot
and
so
4%
doesn't
seem
as
as
generous
as
it
did
back
then,
and
so
we
wanted
to
kind
of
be
more
in
line
with
some
other
surrounding
communities
and
interest
rates
that
they
provided
for
this
particular
plan,
so
I
believe,
like
Cambridge
in
Brookline,
have
like
a
1%
interest
rate
for
this
program.
Mm-Hmm.
B
Know
it
it
is,
it
is
a
small
number
of
applicants
and
I
think
that
you
know
with
any
program
I,
don't
everyone
that
qualifies
and
has
an
interest
to
be
able
to
take
advantage.
Obviously
the
deferral
program
is
not
as
generous
as
an
exemption
program,
because
it's
not
you're
still
responsible
for
the
taxes
is
just
not
today,
right
and
I.
Think
that
also
kind
of
impacts.
A
Okay,
I'm
gonna
go
to
colleagues
and
I'll.
Just
say:
let's
just
make
this
around
as
sort
of
technical
questions
on
these
things.
We
want
to
understand
about
these
two
so
that
because
I
know
we
want
to
have
a
broader
conversation,
I
would
think
about
possibilities
on
property
tax
deferral,
but
just
quickly
want
to
get
people.
Clarity
on
these,
so
I'll
go
to
my
co-sponsors
first
and
then
to
folks
in
order
of
arrival.
So
councillor
woo.
C
Thank
you,
I'm
just
curious,
oh
yeah.
Those
numbers
were
quite
striking
to
me
in
terms
of
the
uptake
or
lack
thereof
Commissioner.
What
do
you
think?
Is
there
an
estimate
of
the
total
universe
of
eligible
residents
for
these
programs
and
sits
to
understand
what
the
31
is
sort
of
in
the
context
of
yeah.
B
You
know,
there's
not
we're
trying
to
figure
out
a
good
way
to
kind
of
identify
what
the
what
the
total
population
is
and
there's
not
really
an
easy
way
to
to
do
that
because
they're
end
up
being
so
many
limiters.
You
know,
there's
there's
the
income
limit,
there's
how
long
someone
has
to
have
owned
the
home
and
and
there's
just
the
general
general
interest
in
the
program.
B
C
C
Yeah
that
would
be
very
helpful
actually
as
as
follow
up
as
as
you're
able
to,
and
then
you
know
this
is
an
issue,
particularly
in
certain
neighborhoods.
Every
time
I
am
having
conversations.
It
comes
up
where
residents
very
much
feel
that
they
are.
You
know
what
kind
of
Colo
clearly
described
as
house,
rich
cash-poor,
and
particularly
for
seniors.
Is
there?
Are
there
any
you
know,
maybe
not
possible,
say,
remove
the
current
fiscal
projections
and
where
we're
headed
in
terms
of
the
economy
in
the
city
in
this
moment,
etcetera.
C
So
just
in
general,
are
there
programs
or
possibilities
that
you
could
imagine
for
seniors
who
have
lived
in
the
city
for
a
long
time?
Have
you
know,
aside
from
the
sort
of
work
off
and
and
deferral,
what
else
could
we
imagine
could
be
possible
to
help
support
people
who
need
to
stay
in
their
homes?
But
maybe
the
property
values
have
gone
up
so
much
that
the
taxes
are
going
up
and
they
can't
keep
up.
B
B
So
that
it's
kind
of
like
the
you
you,
you
have
the
entire
universe
before
you,
and
so
it's
it's
a
little
hard
to
hard
to
answer
that
question
as
to
what
a
good
solution
is.
I
think
that
that's
something
that
we
could
definitely
kind
of
brainstorm
about
and
talk
about,
more
and
I
think
that's
something
that
you
know.
It
would
involve
some
of
that
community
outreach
and
maybe
discussing
with
constituents
programs
that
maybe
they
thought
of
that
that
we
haven't
is.
B
Not
within
other
jurisdictions
in
Massachusetts
because
we're
we
pretty
much
have
every
program
that
we
can
do.
We
are
participating
in
and
I
think
the
work
off
that
you
mentioned
is
like
one
of
the
more
recent
examples
of
a
program
to
trying
a
system.
This
is
seniors,
I,
don't
remember
exactly
when
we
adopted
it,
but
I
know
it's
I
won
states
within
the
last
ten
years
and
I
don't
know
of
other
programs
in
other
states.
F
F
That
I
think
it
would
probably
offer
the
most
flexibility.
Then
there's
looking
at
the
deferral
program.
I
mean
it's
kind
of
a
yes
and
no
you
do
and
don't
want
people
to
be
able
to
qualify
for
this
program.
Right
I
mean
the
fact
that
you
know
the
ideal
would
be
that
people's
limited
income
as
they
age,
is
enough
to
pay
for
the
taxes,
as
they
may
be,
going
up.
F
Their
limited
income
isn't,
but
that's
not
the
world
we
living
in
right
now
for
a
lot
of
seniors,
so
I
understand
that
essentially
being
tax
free
for
a
certain
amount
time
and
then
having
it
paid.
Essentially,
when
the
transfer
happens
in
my
correct
of
the
property
right,
that's
at
4%
we're
trying
to
put
that
to
1%
right
now.
Yeah.
B
F
It
so
and
if
and
if
any
person
falls
out
or
is
in
default
of
those
programs
who's
a
senior,
so
they
wouldn't
be
that
I
was
gonna,
say
if
they're,
if
they're
an
deponent
up
in
the
lien
status,
then
they
would
then
hopefully
be
caught
up
by
the
62a
amendment
that
councillor,
Flynn
and
I
did
where
they
would
be
put
on
a
payment
plan.
Yeah.
B
And
we
also
so
I
think
for
someone
to
be
in
default.
It
would
kind
of
have
to
be
for
some
reason
they
forgot
to
apply
in
a
given
year,
and
so
we
do
a
lot
of
work
and
reach
out
so
that
anyone
who
is
currently
under
the
program,
we
presume,
would
qualify
for
the
succeeding
year
as
they
as
they
come
up.
And
so
we
do
a
lot
of
outreach
and
in
multiple
follow-up
conversations
to
try
and
encourage
people
to
apply
for
the
program
or
at
least
find
out
why
they
aren't
if
they
applied.
B
So
let's
say
someone
got
the
exemption
in
19
and
they
deferred
their
taxes.
Then
I
know
we
had
a
couple
of
instances
where
we're
getting
close
to
the
April
1st
deadline
before
it
got
moved
to
June
1st
and
so
we're
doing
everything
we
can
to
reach
out
to
those
people
to
say,
like
hey,
you
know:
do
you
still
need
to
take
advantage
of
this
program?
B
We
know
you
did
last
year
and
we're
we're
kind
of
assuming
that
if
someone
is
in
this
position,
where
they're
deferring
their
taxes,
if
there's
a
change,
it's
because
you
know
something
happened.
They
didn't
see
the
application,
not
that
all
of
a
sudden
they
decide.
They
don't
want
to
be
in
the
program
anymore.
One.
F
To
take
advantage
of
these
programs
now
I
understood-
and
this
is
may
be
that
as
long
as
you
are
the
benefactor
person
of
the
trust
or
property,
you
could
take
advantage.
But
that
has
been
one
of
the
possible
reasons
why
people
don't
take
advantage
of
this
disease,
whom
they
don't
qualify,
because
their
property
is
no
longer
in
their
name.
It's
in
the
trust,
for
whatever
reasons
right.
B
B
But
the
way
that
the
courts
have
ruled
on
both
of
those
exemptions
is
that
to
qualify
for
one
of
those
programs.
Just
for
that
initial
ownership
test,
you
have
to
have
both
parts
of
the
ownership.
So
what
a
Trust
does
and
then
feel
free
to
cut
me
off.
If
you
know
a
better
I'm
talking
too
much,
but
but
in
essence,
what
Trust
does
is
it
breaks
ownership
up
into
multiple
parts,
and
so
you
have
a
legal
owner
and
a
beneficial
interest
owner
right.
H
B
To
qualify
for
our
residential
exemption
or
one
of
these
personal
exemptions,
you
have
to
have
full
address,
so
you
have
to
be
a
legal
title
holder
as
well
as
have
a
beneficial
interest
in
the
property.
Now
you
don't
have
to
be
the
only
the
legal
title
holders
of
the
trustee.
You
don't
have
to
be
the
only
trustee
and
you
want
to
be
the
only
beneficiary.
But
if
you
don't
have
both
of
those
interests,
then
don't
qualify
for
the
exemption
based
on
how
the
the
wording
is
and
how
the
course
is
that
language
and.
F
F
And
then,
just
in
terms
of
outreach,
when
you
send
out
the
tax
lien
bills,
I
get
them
on
a
quarterly
basis
and
things
like
that,
I
don't
see-
or
maybe
that's
just
because
I'm
not
in
the
age
category.
Something
that
says
are
you
a
senior?
Do
you
need
help
here?
The
one
two,
three,
four
five
programs
that
we
have
for
you
just.
F
B
One
of
them
there
there's
some
limits
the
state
puts
and
what
we
can
have
actually
on
the
bill
itself.
But
one
of
the
things
that
we
do
is
every
year
when
the
after
the
tax
value
is
set
for
the
for
the
third
quarter
bill.
You
set
the
tax
rate.
We
have
an
insert
that
goes
along
with
that
bill.
That
explains
kind
of
a
number
of
programs
that
we
have
to
encourage
people
to
either
give
us
a
call
at
our
tax
payer
referral
assistance
center
or
go
to
our
website
for
more
information.
B
B
E
A
You
great
thank
you.
Thank
you.
Nick
I,
I
think
council
operated
may
have
had
a
jump-off
counselor
Brandon.
Do
you
have
a
quick
comment,
a
question
just
checking
all
right
and
let
me
just
check
I,
think
well,
I
think
councilor
Arroyo,
just
let
me
know
he
doesn't
have
any
questions
on
this
round
and
counselor
councilor
Mejia
also
just
said:
okay,
I
think
I.
Think
she's
good
for
oh
wait.
We've
got
somebody
President
Kim
Janey's
here,
so
we've
just
been
joined
by
councilor,
Kim,
Janey
I.
A
I
think
probably
what
makes
the
most
sense,
because
the
the
three
of
us
sponsors
just
asked
a
bunch
of
technical
questions
about
these
first
two
items
and
I
know
I
councillor
Brayden
had
to
go,
but
just
chimed
in
to
say
that
she's
definitely
and
that
she's
on
the
work
off
jobs,
topic
Nick,
which
isn't
obviously
these
two
dockets
just
saying
that
there's
sort
of
limited
opportunities
in
her
neighborhood
like
out
by
Austin,
Brighton
and
so
thinking
thinking
a
bit
more
about
how
we
make
sure
that
there's
like
real
opportunities
geographically
around
the
city
for
folks
who
can't
go
very
far.
A
That
was
something
she
wanted
to
raise
and
also
she
just
said
that
she's
like
interested
in
in
more
opportunities
to
reduce
to
reduce
real
estate
taxes
so
sort
of
broader
topic
of
this.
But
I
think
probably
what
makes
the
most
sense
is
for
us
to
to
jump
to
the
broader
topic
so
that
we
can
kind
of
have
a
set
of
questions
and
discussions
related
to
that
and
I'll
also
be
a
chance
for
the
council
president
and
other
folks
to
come
in
so
so
yeah.
A
So
I
wanted
to
ask:
ask
Nick
if
you
could
speak
just
at
first
to
councillor
Wuan
councillor
Edwards
both
flagged
the
fact
that
you
know
these
two.
These
are
eggs,
narrowings
options
that
we've
got
from
the
state
they
were
implementing
on
the
residential
side,
but
I
think
in
especially
with
so
many
of
our
small
businesses
in
such
duress.
There's
been
a
lot
of
questions
and
conversations
coming
about
what
we
could
do
in
terms
of
property,
tax
relief
for
them
and
and
I
understand
that
there
are
some
like
potential
limitations
on
that,
but
I.
A
You
know
it's
definitely
a
recurring
question
and
issue
so
I
would
love
to
hear
you
speak
a
little
bit
about
it
from
kind
of
an
Assessors
perspective,
and
then
maybe
we
can
ask
some
questions
and
try
to
push
on
both
the
question
of
angles.
You
know
within
the
current
law
and
then
to
counselor
was
point
what
the
what
the
potential
angles
out
like
you
know.
If
you
were,
if
we
were
gonna
start
from
scratch,
could
be
so
I
don't
know
if
you
could
just
speak
a
little
bit
on
the
commercial
side.
Sure.
B
So
all
right
commercial
conversation,
one
is
it's
an
interesting
conversation
and
I
think
you
know
given
given
the
current
health
crisis,
it's
an
important
one
to
have
just
because
there's
a
lot
going
on
right
now,
there's
a
lot
of
economic
turmoil
and
I
think
it's
good
to
kind
of
take
a
look
at
what
we're
doing
currently
see.
If
there's
anything,
we
can
do
differently
in
the
current
framework
and
then,
if
there
isn't,
you
know
figure
out
if
there's
something
we
wanted
you
to
change
the
crime
framework.
B
The
quick
answer
to
that
is
that
in
the
current
framework
there
there's
nothing
that
I'm
aware
of
in
the
statute
that
would
allow
for,
like
a
small
business,
commercial
exemption,
it's
not
something
that
we
can
just
kind
of
implement
under
the
current
system.
So
to
the
extent
that
we
want
to
investigate
that
further,
that
really
becomes
a
conversation
of
kind
of
like,
like
any
policy
question
like
who
do
we
want
to
benefit
what
what
is
the
end
goal
that
we're
trying
to
achieve,
and
then
how
do
we
get
to
that
end
goal?
B
And
what
criteria
do
we
put
in
place
to
make
sure
that
you
know
we
are
helping?
We
want
to
help
and
that
trying
to
limit
unintended
consequences
and
so
I
not
to
intentionally
push
the
push?
The
question
back
to
all
the
to
the
counselors
but
I
think
it's
to
kind
of
have
a
conversation
about
assisting
small
businesses.
B
First,
we
you
need
to
kind
of
define
like
what
you
mean
by
small
business,
there's
also
this
kind
of
inherent
problem
in
property
taxes
where,
to
my
knowledge,
the
vast
majority
of
small
businesses
within
the
city
of
Boston,
don't
own
their
real
estate
and
they're
renting
their
space.
They've
been
the
vast
majority
of
large
businesses,
don't
own
their
real
estate
and
they
rent
their
space.
B
When
you're
talking
about
using
our
commercial
tax
system
as
a
way
to
benefit
commercial
businesses,
small
small
commercial
businesses,
it's
just
kind
of
the
thing
that
you're
altering
might
never
actually
get
to
the
people
that
you're
trying
to
help
and
I.
Don't
think
that
that's
something
that
that
anyone
wants
is
we
don't
want
to
create
a
program.
I
I
mean
I,
don't
want
to
put
words
in
your
mouth,
but
I
I.
Don't
think
I've
heard
anyone
talking
about
creating
a
program
to
help
out
multinational
banks
in
the
system.
B
A
Yeah
I
think
it's
safe
to
say:
that's,
not
hoot
counsellors
are
looking
to
help
I'm
getting
slightly
out
of
turns
itemized
communication
with
councilor
Mejia.
Just
let
her
for
a
second
ask
a
question
about
the
prior
about
the
interest
rate
thing
in
the
prior
round
and
then
I
want
to
circle
back
with
a
question
for
you
on
this
sorry
to
run
the
order
out.
Councilman.
H
B
B
If
it's
a
married
filing
jointly
file,
the
income
goes
up
to
$90,000,
but
there
are
also
people
that
have
to
have
owned
their
home
for
at
least
five
years
and
been
residents
of
the
state
for
at
least
ten,
and
so
the
those
end
up
being.
You
know
pretty
pretty
significant
limits
in
our
area
plus
in
general.
B
The
fact
that
people
don't
love
to
put
off
bills
I
think
is
also
something
that
discourages
people
from
this
type
of
program,
because
it
isn't
something
that
is
just
they
can,
they
can
decide
and
they
they
get
a
benefit
like
our
exemption
programs,
it's
something
where
they
have
to
enter
into
an
agreement
with
the
city.
The
agreement
gets
recorded
at
the
Registry
of
Deeds.
If
they
have
a
mortgage,
their
bank
needs
to
sign
off
like
anyone
with
an
interest
and
the
property
needs
to
sign
off
on
the
deferral.
H
I
have
one
more
question.
Thank
you
for
that.
What
is
the
breakdown
of
deferment
when
it
comes
to
property
taxes
like
how
many
seniors
defer
their
whole
tax
versus
just
some
of
their
attacks.
B
H
I
mean
I,
don't
want
to
derail
the
whole
entire
conversation
with
like
a
bonus
question
here,
but
I'm
just
I'm
curious
about
this
myself
is
this
something
that
is
this
program?
Could
it
be
applied
to
folks
based
on
their
income?
Can
we
do
something
like
this
to
help
support
no
income?
Is
there
something
like
that
or
any
other?
No.
B
H
H
B
B
So
it's
not
just
anyone,
but
the
income
for
a
single
applicant
is
$60,000,
and
then
the
income
for
married
applicant
is
$90,000,
so
they,
the
income
limits
compared
to
our
exemption
programs,
are
a
little
higher
but
to
an
extent
that
also
kind
of
makes
sense,
because
it's
not.
This
is
money
that
will
be
paid
to
the
city
eventually,
and
the
restriction
is
going
to
come
out
of
there,
their
sales
price
when
the
home
transfers.
A
Thank
you
so
much
counselor
Mejia,
so
so
Nick
back
on
the
commercial
question
like
what
can
you
just
speak
to
you?
What
proportion
of
our
property
taxes,
its
commercial
versus
residential,
currently.
B
So
every
year
the
City
Council
adopts
to
have
a
split
tax
rate
and
that
split
tax
rate
ships,
some
of
the
levy
from
commercial
property,
I'm,
sorry
from
residential
property
to
commercial
property.
So
we
did
not
have
that
spot
rate
and
residential
property
would
pay
a
higher
proportion
of
our
overall
tax
levy
than
they
they
currently
do.
A
And,
and
can
you
speak
to
what
I
guess
what
what
data
do
we
currently
collect
on
commercial
tax
payers
and
I
asked
that,
because
I
think
you
alluded
earlier
to
the
fact
that
I
mean
there's
the
issue
around
the
fact
that
the
small
business
owner
we're
trying
to
help
is
not
necessarily
the
owner
of
their
property
but
I.
Think
many
of
us
I
know
councillor
Edwards
and
council.
A
Roe
and
I
have
talked
about
people
who
are
both
the
owners
and
the
proprietors,
and
so
the
question
of,
if
putting
aside
the
fact
that
there
isn't
a
state
program,
the
question
of,
if
one
created
one
like
what
data
would
you
need
like
to
kind
of
like
sift
through
who
you're
trying
to
reach
I'm,
just
curious
like
what
we
have
on
our
commercial
tax
payers?
So
we.
B
B
So
in
essence,
in
order
for
us
to
get
the
information
that
we
commercial
businesses
are
very
protective
of
their
income
and
expense
data
and
they're
protective
of
it
for
a
whole
bunch
of
reasons,
but
mainly
competitive
advantage,
so
like
one
commercial
landlord
doesn't
want
them
building
next
to
them
to
know
what
their
rights
are.
And
so
there
are
special
statutes
that
are
built
into
our
tax
laws
that
allow
us
collect
a
whole
bunch
of
data
from
commercial
businesses
or
allow
us
to
request
data
from
commercial
businesses.
B
And
then,
if
the
commercial
businesses
don't
provide
it
to
us,
they
get
fined
and
they
lose
appeal
rights.
And
it's
it's
not
great.
But
what
goes
along
with
that
is.
There
is
specific
confidentiality
written
into
those
statutes
that
I'm
not
allowed
to
share
that
data
like
I'm
not
allowed
to
share
that
date
with
other
people
in
the
city
that
never
mind
the
public
and
larger
the
City
Council.
B
So,
to
kind
of
ensure
that
we
are
assessing
commercial
properties
appropriately,
the
data
is
really
important
to
us,
but
at
the
same
thing
is
a
lot
of
data
that
I.
Can
you
necessarily
provide
to
y'all
on
a
very
like
case-by-case
basis,
but
things
like
ownership
is
public,
so
ownership
data
is
relatively
easy
to
identify
an
occupancy
data,
for
the
most
part
is
public
because
you
can
go
and
see
if
someone
else
in
the
property
you
know,
Richards
pizza
shop
owns
the
building
on
Richards
pizza
shop.
Is
the
business
that
you
see
you?
A
B
A
About
in
terms
of
that
data
that
you're
not
allowed
to
share
and
I
know,
I
remember
when
I,
when
we
were
working
on
some
when
we
were
working
on
some
affordable
housing
stuff
through
the
Housing
Authority
I.
Remember
the
fact
that
there's
like
certain
data
that
only
the
Assessors
can
hold
like
none
of
the
rest
of
us
have
access
to
so
I
have
some
familiarity
with
that.
But
but
I'm
curious.
Are
you
at
least
able
to
do
like
a
macro
analysis
like?
Could
you
if
you
ask
the
right
set
of
questions?
B
There's
probably
a
way
to
do
that:
I
think
it.
You
know
like
anything.
It
would
depend
on
what
questions
you're
trying
to
get
the
answer
to
I
mean
I
I
be
inclined
to
help
out
in
whatever
way
we
can.
So,
if
there's
a
question
and
it's
one
that
I
can't
answer
because
I'm
gonna
end
up
filing
I'm
statue-
oh
I'll!
Definitely
let
you
know,
but
I'm
not
inclined
to
just
give
that
as
a
blanket
answer
to
any
request
that
you
have
because
I
well,
that's
not
helpful
to
anybody.
So
we're.
A
Grateful
for
that
and
yeah
I
would
just
say
and
I
want
to
let
my
colleagues
go
I
think
the
reason
I'm
asking
these
questions
is
because
I
am
my
head
I'm,
really
trying
to
balance
the
fact
that
I
do
think
they're
like
there's
like
a
sort
of
pretty
it's
like
there's
a
narrowly
tailored
case
here
of
like
businesses
that
especially
that
we
would
really
like
to
be
able
to
help
through
deferral,
because
I
do
think.
A
There's
an
argument
that,
like
you
know,
your
building
has
value
right,
and
so
you
own
it
and
the
taxes
are
actually
on
the
value.
And
if
that
value,
in
doors
like
the
tax
debt
to
the
city,
like
there's
a
legitimacy
to
that
tax
debt
enduring,
but
the
capacity
not
to
demand
it
when
we
know
people
are
not
getting,
income
seems
like
it
would
be
a
good
lever
to
have.
A
At
the
same
time,
I
mean
I
know
that
if
you
take
65
percent
of
our
tax
base,
if
you
did
something
right
now
that
let
everybody
defer
like,
we
would
very
quickly
run
out
of
liquidity
right
and
like
so
so
you
can't
you
can't
I
mean
never
mind
the
fact
that
we
can't
that
the
state
wouldn't
like
let
us,
but
we
also
just
couldn't
necessarily
afford
to
do
a
kind
of
broad
brush
thing
and
wouldn't
wanted
your
about
multinational
banks.
So
I'm,
just
really
interested
in.
C
F
Question
can
you
I
mean
yes,
so
so
again,
I
think
I'm
going
off
of
what
you
just
said,
which
is
very
inspiring
and
which
is
because
majority
of
folks
in
Boston
will
not
receive
this
benefit
but
are
going
to
be
receiving
the
rippling
effect
of
this
of
this
bad
economy.
I'm
furious
with
one
what
went
into
the
3%
analysis,
but
also,
if
you're,
going
to
offer
that
without
I
haven't
seen
a
huge.
You
know,
organizing
method,
for
it.
We're
gonna
offer
that.
B
It
could
be
someone
who
is
a
so
I
didn't
mean
that
cut
you
off.
I
was
just
gonna
say
that
if
there
is
someone
who
is
a
landlord,
then
that
would
be
increasing
their
income.
I
think
there
also
might
be
a
restriction
on
whether
they
can
actually
defer
those
other
units,
but
I
would
have
to
check
on
that.
So.
B
B
C
B
F
F
At
least
I
mean
you're
you're
guaranteed
a
certain
amount
of
tax
freedom
and
then
even
you'll
make
even
more
or
your
family
will
make
even
more,
which
is
a
good
thing
when
you
transfer
your
property.
But
if
the
the
entire
time
you're
either
raising
rents
or
victim
people,
I,
don't
know,
I
mean
that's
what
we
that
was
one
of
the
issues
I
had
with
the
rent
relief
going
directly
to
landlords
with
no
conditions.
But
that's
that's
yeah!
That's
it
for
me!
No.
B
I
I
do
I,
do
hear
what
you're
saying
about
you
know
if
you
appear
in
a
multi-family
and
you
are
taking
advantage
of
the
deferral,
but
this
isn't
like
one
of
those
other
programs
where
we
kind
of
are
allowed
to
add
on
additional
restrictions
where
we're
really
closely
bound
by
the
statute
that
either
either
you
qualify
for
the
program
or
you
do
not.
There's
there's
not
like
gray
of
you
qualify
and
we
can
add
on
additional
restrictions.
B
A
I
think
I
think
Commissioner
would
be
great
to
get
that
info
as
a
follow
up,
certainly
because,
obviously,
if
you
can't
I
mean
if,
if
you
simply
can't
get
it
on
rental
units,
then
you
know
in
this
case
it
wouldn't
apply.
I.
Think,
though
councillor
Edwards,
this
point
is
well-taken
about
the
the
overall
question
of
you
know.
If
the
council
did
think
about,
you
know
other
property
tax
things
that
we
wanted
to
push
up
at
the
Statehouse.
A
You
know
making
sure
again
that
you're
making
that
connection
that
key
connection
between
you
know,
people
who
owned
in
people
who
were
in
because
it's
just
from
an
equity
perspective,
there's
a
lot
of
impacts
there.
Edwards
did
you
have
any
further
questions.
A
A
E
J
Flynn
yeah,
thank
you,
council
block
and
Thank
You.
Commissioner
I
was
on
the
call
earlier,
but
then
I
had
to
jump
off
long
enough
to
I'll
review
the
video
later
I
hope
the
questions
that
I
asked
we're
not
or
not
already
asked,
but
I
just
wanted
to
follow
up.
And
can
you
talk
a
little
about
the
the
program
you
have
for
seniors
in
in
at
trends?
J
B
So
I
think
one
thing
that
we
can
do
this
year.
Specifically
it's
as
I
mentioned
I.
Think
in
Prior
city
council
meetings,
this
years
of
recertification
year
for
us
and
so
comes
with
that
we
kind
of
have
a
little
little
more
communication
with
the
constituents
and
we
send
some
additional
mail
is
a
disclosure
notice.
I
think
we
can
take
that
as
an
opportunity
to
send
some
additional
made
from
the
people
while
we're
already.
You
know
there
are
some
programs
we
have
if
you
qualify
for
them.
Please
take
advantage.
B
You
know
we
were
working
with
the
Boston
home
center
in
relation
to
the
62,
a
repayment
plan
at
you
and
councillor
Edwards
have
interesting
and
where
I
believe
the
initial
sponsors
to
do
some
outreach
on
that
to
see
if
there
are
additional
people
that
might
qualify
or
have
interest
and
I.
Think
the
Boston
home
centers
is
a
good
resource
for
people
that
are
kind
of
in
trouble
to
get
all
their
options,
because
there
are
options
for
people
that
aren't
just
for
aggression,
but
from
the
city
are
just
programs
from
the
assessing
department.
B
So
we've
been
working
with
them
work
a
lot
with
the
H
strong
Commission
to
try
and
try
and
get
a
message
to
as
many
people
as
possible.
Is
it.
You
know
the
perms
that
we've
already
enacted
I,
think
they're
good
programs
and
the
sadena
City
Council
enacted
them
so
that
people
can
take
advantage
of
them,
and
so
you
know
they
need
to
know
about
them
to
take
advantage
and
I
want
to
make
sure
that
they
know
about
them
and
that
they're
doing
that.
J
J
B
Those
are
some
some
excellent
questions.
Counselor
and
you
know,
I
think
it's
worth
looking
into
what
we
have
and
kind
of
we're
doing.
What
changes
we
make
in
the
city
changes
the
current
tax
program
Claire
they
look
to
us
by
statute.
Don't
let
us
provide
assistance
on
that
that
granular
of
a
level
they're
really
set
up
for
residential
property
and
they're
really
set
up
for
you
know,
we'd
the
residential
exemption
program,
which
is
a
strong
program.
We
have
the
senior
program
for
the
veterans,
progress.
B
The
kind
of
thing
that
you're
talking
about
is
really
something
that
would
require
new
regulation.
I
think
you
know
I'd
be
happy
to
participate
in
any
conversations
about
what
communities
we
want
to
assist
and
kind
of
how
we
can
get
that
acceptance
to
them.
I
think
I
think
it's
also
important
to
kind
of
keep
in
mind
that
when
you're
talking
about
property
taxes,
we're
really
talking
about
revenue
right
right
and
so
sometimes
the
best
way
to
target
a
specific
population
like
that
until
you
create
a
grant
program.
B
So
if
you
create
a
grant
program
that
helps
small
businesses
with
legal
assistance,
then
that
can
maybe
target
some
people
that
are
property
owners,
but
then
they
can
negotiate
with
their
landlords
and
get
a
better
lease
agreement.
And
so
you
know
that
might
be
a
way
to
get
at
that
broader
population
that
wasn't
school
real
estate
and
you're.
B
So
much
of
our
revenue
is
from
real
estate
and
a
you
know
that
percentages
is
gonna,
go
up
as
we
worry
about
state
aid
declining
and
we're
worried
about.
You
know
local
receipts
from
excise
declining
that
the
solution
doesn't
just
have
to
be
cutting
off
tax
collection
because
that's
a
cost.
It
can
be
taking
the
revenue
that
we
get
from
tax
collection
and
figuring
out.
You
know
some
targeted
assistance
programs
with
that.
J
Well,
thank
you
Commissioner
for
taking
my
questions.
Thank,
You
counsel,
fog
and
I
just
wanted
to
let
you
know
that
you're
doing
a
good
job
easel,
especially
for
the
seniors.
We
really
need
to
make
sure
that
we
work
with
our
seniors,
make
sure
that
we
we
allow
them
to
stay
in
the
city
of
Boston
in
their
homes,
in
in
work
with
them
on
tax
tax,
related
issues
and
the
program
I
had
with
Lydia
council
ed
woods,
excellent
and
we'd
love
to
have
your
support
in
terms
of
making
it
more
available
just
to
what
people
thank.
D
You,
madam
chair
and
good
afternoon,
commissioner,
pick
up
where
accounts
of
fun
left
off
just
want
to
thank
Commissioner,
Erin
Ella
for
the
work
that
he's
doing
in
in
a
changing
world,
particularly
as
the
bottom
fell
out
of
q4
and
looks
like
that
trend
will
continue
for
first
couple
quarters,
maybe
longer
as
we
head
into
to
the
new
budget,
so
I
appreciate
the
attention
to
detail.
You've
been
always
been
very
responsive
to
to
me
and
my
staff.
D
When
concerns
we've
had
and
at
the
end
of
the
day,
I
plan
to
support
these
three
dockets,
we
need
to
do
whatever
we
need
to
do
for
not
to
support
our
seniors,
particularly
our
fixed
income,
folks,
people
that
are
arguably
I,
guess
house,
rich
and
cash
poor.
Yet
they
start
to
see
things
happening
around
their
community,
which
is
increasing
their
property
values,
which
in
turn
increases
their
exposure
to
increase
property
tax.
So
anything
we
can
do
to
help
that
population
and
others,
particularly
now
in
post
Colvin,
where
folks
are
really
struggling.
D
People
having
lost
their
jobs,
people
struggling
to
to
pay
their
bills
and
you
know,
focus
on
paying
their
rent,
which
puts
stress
on
someone
that
is
trying
to
pay
their
mortgage,
etc,
etc,
etc.
So
just
want
to
be
on
record
of
supporting
these
three
dockets
and
will
continue
to
work
with
you,
commissioner,
and
obviously
with
the
chair
ways
and
means,
and
my
colleagues
to
try
to
do.
D
We
can
to
to
make
to
lessen
the
burden
I
guess
if
possible,
but
realizing
that
we're
in
a
new
reality,
post
Govan
in
and
we're
gonna
start
to
see
some
of
these
revenue
shortages
and
they're
gonna
catch
up
to
us,
pretty
quick
as
we're
going
through
our
budget
process
now
and
looking
at
it
as
a
multi
budget
type
of
multi.
You
know
we're
looking
at
multi-year
focus
for
for
moving
forward
and
I.
D
A
A
Public
testimony
so
I'm
gonna
recognize
jonathan
cohn
john.
If
you
can
just
introduce
yourself
and
then
just
I
keep
it
to
a
few
minutes.
That'd
be
great
yeah.
G
Easter
Fenway
accurate
the
number
of
fronts
as
well
sheriff
my
local
ward
committee
here
in
Boston's
board,
for
thank
you
for
hosting
these
hearings
and
for
adapting
to
the
new
technology
about
what
the
situation
that
requires
just
wanted
to
testify
to
express
some.
That
was
a
hesitation
or
skepticism
a
concern
about
any
large-scale
kind
of
property.
Tax
relief
happening
right
now,
particularly
because
of
how
dependent
Boston
is
on
property
tax
collection
to
do
pretty
much
any
basic
city
services.
G
It's
vital
not
to
make
that
problem
worse
by
offering
any
form
of,
let's
say,
tax
relief,
particularly
on
a
commercial
front,
as
opposed
to
say
a
targeted
front
for
individuals
with
with
lower
incomes,
because
it
will
only
make
the
situation
worse
in
depleting
city
coffers
even
more
at
a
time
when
the
city
needs
all
of
them.
Basically,
all
of
the
resources
they
can
get
in
order
to
do
everything
that
it
does
and
everything
that
the
city
needs
to
be
doing,
but
it
isn't,
it
isn't
currently
spending
on
so
we're
just
kind.
A
Thank
you
so
much
Jonathan,
seeing
no
further
public
testimony
and
no
other.
A
J
You'd
thank
Thank
You,
commissioner,
so
I'm
just
one
wondering
if
you
know,
as
is
it,
relates
to
the
Chinatown
community.
They've
been
hit
very
hard
by
by
this
economic
downturn
in
the
pandemic,
with
wit
strategies
or
whatever.
Is
there
something
we
can
do
on
property
tax
I
know
I
referenced
it
earlier,
but
is
there
anything
that
in
your
toolbox
that
we
might
be
able
to
do
to
assist
immigrant
owned
companies
with
property
tax
assistance
so.
B
There
there
isn't
anything
currently
that
we
can
do
under
statue
with
property
taxes.
That
is,
that
is
that
targeted
I.
Think
that
you
know
that's
another
interesting
idea
that
maybe
for
proposing
the
creation
of
a
grant
program
or
something
like
that
where
maybe
what
we
can
do
is
use
the
revenue
from
property
taxes
to
try
and
provide
some
some
more
targeted
assistance
to
help
out
with
areas
that
are
that
are
hard-hit
or
to
help
with
you
know,
constituents
that
have
faced
inequities.
J
A
Thank
You
councillor
Flynn
anyone
else
all
right,
seeing
none
I,
just
I
just
want
to
thank
the
Commissioner
for
joining
us
today
and
thank
my
co-sponsors
councillor
Wu
and
councillor
Edwards
on
our
docket
and
also
Thank
You,
commissioner,
for
the
details
on
7
3,
2,
&
733.
So
with
that
this
hearing
of
the
Boston
City
Council's,
Ways
and
Means
Committee
is
adjourned.
Thank
you
all
see
ya.