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From YouTube: Civil Rights & Immigrant Advancement on March 23, 2023
Description
Civil Rights and Immigrant Advancement Hearing- Docket #0164- Order for a hearing on discrimination in lending and appraisals.
A
We
will
also
take
public
testimony
at
the
end
of
the
hearing.
If
you
are
interested
in
testifying,
please
email,
ron.com
boston.gov,
for
the
link
at
providing
virtual
testimony.
Please
make
sure
your
username
is
your
first
and
last
name.
Please
state
your
name
and
affiliation
residence
and
limit
your
comments
to
a
few
minutes
to
ensure
that
all
comments
and
concerns
can
be
heard.
Today's
hearing
is
on
docket
number
zero,
one,
six,
four
order
for
hearing
on
discrimination
in
lending
and
appraisals.
A
A
I
call
this
hearing
order
last
year,
as
we
all
see
the
reports
and
the
Articles
and
the
data
about
how
expensive
it
is
to
live
in
the
city
of
Boston,
for
so
many
of
our
residents
about
Boston,
losing
its
black
population
and
a
lot
of
that
being
due
to
the
cost
of
housing.
But
it's
not
just
the
cost.
We
know
that
it's
discrimination
that
our
residents
at
our
black
and
brown
residents
face
in
the
process
of
trying
to
obtain
the
credit
necessary
in
the
financial
support
necessary
to
become
homeowners.
A
A
major
element
of
the
American
dream
is
a
home
of
One's
Own
in
the
neighborhood
of
One's
Choice.
However,
the
story
of
the
American
dream
home
ownership
and
the
lending
necessary
to
get
there
is
incomplete
without
looking
at
the
people,
primarily
black
and
brown
folks,
who
have
been
historically
and
systemically
blocked
from
from
being
able
to
fairly
access
our
lending
institutions.
We
know
that
federal
law
prohibits
discrimination
in
the
home.
Buying
process
is
stated
in
the
Fair
Housing
Act
Equal
Credit,
Opportunity,
Act,
Community,
reinvestment
act
and
Home
Mortgage
disclosure
act
Honda.
A
A
place
of
stability,
a
place
of
predictability
just
as
being
charged
a
higher
interest
rate,
siphons,
intergenerational
wealth
and
Appraisal
biases
perpetuate
legacies
of
redlining
with
the
data
shows
and
what
I
believe
our
esteemed
a
group
of
panelists
will
present
is
that
black
and
latinx
applicants
of
a
color
experience,
loan,
denials
and
Appraisal
discriminate
discrimination
at
disproportionately
higher
rates
compared
to
White
populations.
Even
when
we
control
for
credit
risk
factor
factors
and
and
and
and
access
to
Capital
factors.
A
Given
the
scale
and
breadth
of
the
wealth
disparity
between
what
black
and
white
families
as
researched
by
the
Federal
Reserve.
Our
existing
fair
housing
enforcement
mechanisms
are
not
enough
to
guarantee
equal
treatment
or
Equitable
results,
but
we
aren't
helpless
and
today,
I
hope
to
reach
beyond
the
problems
we
face
and
begin
to.
A
So
with
that
I
know
that
I
have
colleagues
who
are
are
coming
wanting
to
get
us
started
here
and
I
want
to
turn
it
over
to
our
panel.
I
know
that
Professor
Justin
Steele
is
on
a
on
a
time
crunch.
Thank
you
for
being
with
us
right
before
your
class
I'm,
going
to
start
it
off
with
you.
Each
panelist
is
going
to
have
five
minutes
for
an
intro,
and
then
we
will
turn
it
over.
For
questions,
so
thank
you.
Professor
still,
you
have
the
floor.
Great.
B
B
So
it's
a
crucial
factor
in
racial
inequality.
There
are
many
different
factors
that
contribute
to
this
Gap
and
one
is
the
gap
in
household
income
by
race,
in
the
United
States
and
even
more
significant
factor
is
the
gap
in
household
wealth
by
race
in
the
United
States.
But
there
are
things
that
we
can
do
about
this,
as
you
said,
in
terms
of
down
payment
assistance,
interest
rate
assistance
and
other
programs
like
that.
B
Another
factor
that
is
contributing
to
these
gaps
is
given
these
differences
in
wealth
and
income,
the
role
of
housing,
affordability
and
so
we've
seen.
Housing
costs
in
Boston
increase
much
faster
than
median
incomes,
and
so
that
has
pushed
many
households.
Many
moderate
income
and
low-income
households
out
of
the
ability
to
to
purchase
a
home
and
housing
prices,
have
grown
most
for
the
lowest
quintile
of
homes
and
grown
lease
for
the
highest
quintile
of
homes.
B
So
home
prices
have
grown
most
for
the
lowest
lowest
the
most
affordable
homes
and
leased
for
the
highest
cost
homes.
So
it's
disparately
affecting
low
and
moderate
income
homeowners,
and
then
some
research
has
found
that
black
households
have
a
higher
homeownership
rate
and
a
lower
Gap
in
metropolitan
area
is
where
there
are
more
building
permits
per
household.
But
that's
an
issue
that
we're
facing
in
Greater
Boston.
Is
that
there's
not
enough
housing
production,
especially
outside
the
city
of
Boston,
where
restrictive
zoning
drives
up
the
cost
of
housing?
B
Another
factor
that
contributes
to
some
of
these
disparities
are
differences
in
credit
scores.
We
have
come
to
rely
on
credit
scores
so
much
for
risk-based
pricing
in
lending,
as
well
as
in
many
other
dimensions
of
life.
But
there's
about
21
percent
of
black
consumers
do
not
have
a
credit
score
compared
to
12
percent
of
white
households
and
that's
largely
because
they
don't.
B
All
of
this,
as
I
said,
not
only
affects
access
to
mortgages,
but
also
the
cost
of
mortgages.
So
black
home
buyers
in
2019
were
charged
13
basis
points
and
more
for
their
mortgages
on
average
than
white
borrowers,
and
then
for
actually
for
outstanding
mortgages.
The
Gap
in
interest
rates
is
even
higher
because
there's
a
disparity
in
the
likelihood
to
refinance
when
rates
are
low,
so
this
is
means
that
black
and
Latino
borrowers
are
paying
more
for
the
same
access
to
credit
and
in
terms
of
appraisal
discrimination.
B
This
is
not
an
area
that
I
researched
directly
myself,
but
there's
extensive
research
that
establishes
that
for
Black
and
Latino
home
buyers,
their
homes
are
more
likely
to
be
appraised
at
below
the
value
at
which
the
home
actually
sells.
For
so
the
one
of
the
leading
studies
is
by
Freddie
Mac,
the
federal
Home
Loan
mortgage
Corporation
in
2021
and
using
more
than
12
million
appraisals.
B
So
all
of
that
is
strong
evidence
that
there
is
either
conscious
or
unconscious
bias
in
the
appraisal
process
and
there's
other
studies
that
have
replicated
this,
including
by
Freddie
Mac,
also
looking
in
a
smaller
sample
where
the
race
of
the
actual
home
buyer
is
available
again.
Finding
that
9.5
percent
of
Latino
applicants,
8.6
percent
of
black
applicants
receive
an
appraisal
value
lower
than
the
sale
price
compared
to
only
6.5
percent
of
white
applicants.
B
So
what
to
do
about
this
I
think
there
are
many
great
ideas.
I'll
just
share.
A
few
I
think
one
really
important
component,
as
you
said,
is
different
forms
of
down
payment
assistance
and,
potentially,
assistance
that
recognizes
the
histories
of
discrimination
and
access
to
homeownership
and
financial
services
that
households
have
experienced
in
Boston.
B
I
think
the
benefits
of
risk-based
pricing
to
lenders
is
not
always
directly
related
to
actually
the
risk
of
of
default,
for
instance
in
refinance
loans.
If
the
person
is
refinancing
alone
and
they've
been
making
their
payments
consistently
and
they're
refinancing
into
a
loan,
presumably
on
better
terms,
how
relevant
is
is
a
credit
score
in
that
context,
when
there's
already
proof
proof
of
consistent
payment,
I
also
think
it's
really
important
to
have
more
research,
more
funding
and
more
support
and
more
research
for
fair
housing
testing,
especially
into
home
appraisals
and
home
Lending
and
I.
B
Think
more
robust
warehousing
testing
and
enforcement
at
the
city
level
at
the
state
level
at
the
State,
Attorney
General's
office
and
the
U.S
attorney's
office
would
be
would
be
very
helpful
and
then
I.
Think.
Another
thing
to
take
into
consideration
is
the
importance,
especially
for
low
and
moderate
income
households
of
being
able
to
sustain
home
ownership
because
for
some
of
the
lowest
income
households
who
are
able
to
buy
a
home
that
could
end
up
sometimes
causing
more
financial
harm
than
benefit.
B
Special
purpose,
credit
programs,
you
mentioned
I-
think
are
an
important
part
of
this
and
then
also,
as
you
also
alluded
to
I,
think
community
development
financial
institutions,
especially
Community
Development
Credit
Unions
I,
was
just
speaking
with
Bill
Bynum
from
The
Hope
Federal.
Credit
Union
in
Mississippi
and
they've
been
doing
great
work
building
relationships.
B
He
described
their
work
as
being
kind
of
the
private
Banker
to
low-income
households
that
wealthy
households
already
have
and
being
able
to
extend
home
ownership
through
loans
that
do
not
have
high
default
rates,
but
otherwise
fall
outside
of
the
qualified
mortgage
guidelines
and
that
Banks,
probably
wouldn't
make
and
I
imagine
you've
already
spoken
to
these
folks,
but
Crystal
cornigay
at
Mouse.
Mass
housing
is
obviously
very
focused
on
this
issue,
I'm
in
Sheila
Dillon
and
the
mayor's
office
of
housing
as
well.
So
thank
you
so
much
for
for
having
me.
A
Thank
you,
Professor,
steel
and
just
because
I
know,
you
are
still
on
a
time
crunch
I'm,
going
to
ask
you
some
questions
that
I
have
for
you
now
I
I
think.
Could
you
speak
to
the
disparate
impact
that
FHA
Loans
have
on
black
and
Linux
borrowers
and
how,
although
a
lot
of
times
well-meaning
first
time,
home
buying
product
can
have
like
an
a
a
harmful
long-term,
harmful
impact
on
home
buyers
who
aren't
able
to
access
conventional
loans.
B
I
think
the
FHA
and
VA
loan
programs
are
really
important
programs
in
terms
of
creating
a
entry
to
home
ownership.
It
is
true
that
they
often
cost
more
than
conventional
loans
and
I
think
that
that
is
an
area
for
advocacy
at
the
federal
level
to
figure
out
what
can
be
done
to
bring
those
closer
to
parity,
because
I
think
it's
unfair
to
have
people
who
have
the
least
resources
paying
the
most
for
their
mortgage,
but
I
think
it
is.
A
You
Professor,
you
talked
a
bit
about
it,
which
is
great
like
how
do
we
lean
Less
on
credit
scores
and
risk
and
risk-based
pricing?
What
can
we
do
at
the
municipal
level
like
one?
Are
you
seeing
Banks
like?
Is
there
you
know,
I,
remember,
Wells
Fargo
had
this
commitment
in
2017.
we're
going
to
create
all
these
new
black
homeowners
we're
going
to
do
this
and
then,
and
actually
the
data
shown
that
they've
done
actually
opposite
in
terms
of
creating
new
homeowners.
But
what
can
we
do
at
the
municipal
level?
A
What
do
you
see
Banks
doing-
and
this
is
a
panel-
a
question
for
all
the
panelists
to
to
be
less
reliant
on
those
credit
scores,
because
we
know
that
credit
scores
themselves
are
rooted
in
structural
racism.
Given
you
know
where
people
are
able
to
access
Credit
where
the
banks
are
located,
there's
an
ability
to
rely
on
Alternatives,
like
utilities,
Telecom
and
Rental
payments
like
do
we
see
that
happening.
Is
that
the
way
that
we
should
be
going
like?
A
What
are
the
alternatives
to
this
credit
and
risk-based
pricing
and
then
like
also
a
lot
of
these
issues
that
we're
talking
about
in
that
and
I
understand
that
a
lot
of
the
things
that
we're
talking
about
really
are
about
Federal
advocacy
and
about
federal
law.
I.
Do
think
that
there
are
things
that
we
can
be
doing
on
the
municipal
level.
So
if
you
could
also
tie
that
and
I
think
that
would
be
helpful
and
that
this
is
a
question
that
I'm
going
to
ask
everyone
on
the
panel.
But
starting
with
you.
Yes,.
A
C
Know
I
have
the
floor.
Thank
I'm,
Madam
chair
and
my
apologies
to
the
panel
for
being
late.
I
did
have
it
streaming
on
my
phone
as
I
came
over
from
my
prior
meeting,
so
I
actually
heard
all
of
Justin's
testimony
and
but
I
do
feel
bad,
especially
since
this
is
a
panel
of
many
of
my
favorite
people,
Professor
Steele
I
just
wanted.
One
of
my
questions
was
the
one
that
counselor
Lou
Jen
just
asked
so
I
won't
repeat
it.
C
I
was
wondering
on
the
fair
housing
testing
front
I
feel
like
a
lot
more
of
the
sort
of
robust
testing
that
I've
seen
and
some
of
the
stuff
that
suffolk's
done
and
that
we've
done
in
the
city
has
been
focused
on
renters
and
I.
Think
that's
more
where
my
headspace
has
been
on
testing
and
so
I'm
sort
of
curious.
Do
you
know
of
places
where
people
have
done
robust,
fair
housing,
testing
on
the
home
ownership
side
kind
of
like
who?
Who?
Where
should
we
look?
If
we
want
to
start
thinking
about
that
sure.
B
I
think
one
of
the
leading
I
mean
the
National
Fair
Housing
Alliance
would
be
a
great
place
to
start
with,
and
their
general
counsel
keeps
close
track
of
kind
of
what's
happening
around
around
the
country
from
their
member
organizations
and
the
fair
housing
Justice
Center
in
New.
York
City
has
done
extensive
testing
also
on
the
home
ownership
side,
especially
with
brokers
in
terms
of
racial
steering,
but
they
have
also
done
some
testing
on
lending
and
racial
discrimination
in
lending
by
loan.
Originators.
B
C
And
there-
and
you
don't
know
of
any
and
it's
I
mean
I-
can
ask
those
folks,
but
you
don't
know
of
anything
like
sort
of
like
I
felt,
like
Seattle
sort
of
got
out
ahead
of
us
in
terms
of
fair
housing
testing.
On
the
rental
side,
you
don't
have
any
Municipal
place,
that's
doing
proactively,
doing
the
homeownership
side
to
you.
C
B
Other
states
as
well
and
I,
think
that
that
is
I
mean
that
is
an
important
dimension
of
parodies
is
low-income.
Borrowers
need
the
to
have
a
kind
of
private
Banker,
with
trustworthy,
Financial
advice
in
their
interest,
even
more
so
than
much
more
so
than
wealthy
households
and
so
having
a
credit
union
that
has
those
established
relationships.
I
think
is
really
important.
Yeah.
B
Yes,
and
so
one
of
the
ways
that
they
have
done,
that
is
by
combining
the
Community
Development
Credit
Union,
with
a
Community
cdfi,
Loan
Fund,
so
that
they're
doing
business
loans
and
mortgage
loans
and
Credit
Union
banking,
providing
a
whole
Suite
of
services
that
can
help
expand
their
capacity.
But
the
Biden
Administration
is
I
think
has
been
very
supportive
of
cdfis,
and
so
there
there
is
some
federal
support
available
through
the
cdfi
fund
as
well
great.
C
Fantastic
and
then
I'll
just
add
my
plus
one
on
the
question
that
counselor
Legion
asked
for
all
the
rest
of
the
panelists,
like
it
I
mean
I.
I
have
long
been
super
frustrated
by
the
credit
score
thing
again,
just
because
of
having
come
out
of
the
public
housing
space
in
terms
of
the
way
that
it
can
be
applied
to
voucher
holders,
because,
from
my
perspective,
if
you're
holding
a
federal
voucher,
it's
like
you're
walking
around
with
a
treasury
bill.
C
So
the
idea
that,
when
the
full
faith
and
credit
of
the
federal
government
is,
is
backing
your
rent
that
that
then
we're
still
using
this
score.
That
is
like
obviously
irrelevant
and
just
serves
as
a
screen,
mostly
based
on
race
and
and,
and
you
know,
economic
status
like
it's
just
unbelievably
frustrating
to
me,
but
but
I
think
that,
and
that
seems
like
a
very
cut
and
dry
case,
where
it's
just
like,
obviously
irrelevant.
C
But
I
think
that
when
we've
pushed
people
in
other
Realms,
including
this
one,
to
sort
of
move
away
from
risk-based
pricing,
the
question
that
we
get
back
is
the
sort
of
like
well.
I
have
to
be
able
to
make
a
judicious
business
decision
like
it's
fine
for
you
to
say
all
of
you
know
these
metrics
build
in
structural
racism,
but
what
am
I
supposed
to
use
and
so
I
do
feel
like
we
all
need
to
work
on,
like
the
answer
to
that.
B
C
No
no
makes
sense,
and
the
reality
is
is
that
people
with
means
do
that
all
the
time
like
I
mean
that's
Bank
of
mom
and
dad
that's
private
thinking,
like
all
kinds
of
things
that
don't
meet
like
formal
muster.
People
are
like
oh
yeah,
but
we
have
a
relationship
and
it's
going
to
be
fine
and,
and
that
gets
encoded
unequally
into
our
system.
So
thank
you.
A
A
I
wanted
to
say
that
we,
you
know,
as
I
was
talking
to
a
lot
of
you.
You
all
gave
me
really
great
names
of
other
people
that
we
could
have
on
this
panel
and
we've
been
having
four
hour
panels
years
and
four
hour,
hearings
and
I've
been
I've,
been
trying
not
to
do
that,
but
I
Professor
Golding
and
the
wealth
of
knowledge
that
he
brings
as
a
former
chair
I
believe
the
fair
housing
Federal.
A
And
and
Vanessa
Perry,
who
I
know
you
all
invited
and
has
like
really
great
ideas,
and
so
I
just
want
to
just
state
that
this,
for
me,
I
really
do
see
this.
As
hat
being
the
first
hearing
that
we're
having
on
this,
we
also
invited
some
of
our
banks
that
I
think
have
been
leaders
in
this
conversation,
especially
on
the
heels
of
what
happened
with
silicon
Valley
Bank.
We
really
wanted
to
have
a
bank
presence
here
best
practices.
What
are
you
doing?
Where
are
we
using
these
special
purpose
credits
like
what?
A
How
are
we
helping
to
build
black
and
brown
homeownership
and
wealth?
Two
of
the
banks
really
wanted
to
be
here
and
couldn't
be
here.
The
Federal
Reserve
also
has
a
policy
where
it
like
certain
blackout,
dates
where
they're
not
able
to,
and
so
today
is
one
of
them.
We
hope
to
have
another
iteration
of
this
conversation,
bringing
the
mass
Bankers
Association
as
well
to
hold
them
accountable
for
what
they
are
and
aren't
doing.
So.
A
This
is
the
first
level
conversation
I
have
two
questions
that
are
as
I
think,
a
bit
of
ideas
and
I
think
I'll
get
the
idea
out.
First
I
was
at
Harvard
Law
School
yesterday,
that's
where
I
went
I
was
a
student
attorney,
the
Harvard
legal
aid.
We
were
talking
to
the
housing
law
and
policy
course,
and
a
student
asked
me
whether
home
ownership
should
be
the
goal
if
we
are
persistently
and
consistently
devaluing
black
communities
at
a
rate
compared
to
communities
to
White
communities
and
I,
said
well
at
base
that
question.
A
A
Schools
is
going
to
have
horse
roads
as
a
result
of
just
there
being
the
presence
of
black
homeowners
to
me
is
nothing
but
an
expression
of
racism
in
our
system
and
wanted
folks
to
respond
to
that
sort
of
idea,
and
that
question
and
of
course,
I
have
forgotten
what
my
original
question
to
you
is.
But
if
you
have
anything
else
that
you
wanted
to
stay,
ASA
I
know
that
you
want
a
time
limit.
So.
A
I
do
think
that
we
need
to
be
thinking
about
new
ways,
different
ways
and
so
I
appreciate
what
you've
what
you
you've
brought
to
this
panel
I'm,
going
to
continue
on
with
the
rest
of
my
panelists
at
you
are
free
to
go.
Whenever
you
were
able,
you
can
stay
as
long
as
you
are
able
so
moving
on
to
Jim
campen.
D
D
The
last
of
these
reports
entitled
changing
patterns,
25
analyzed
mortgage
lending
data
from
2017
and
earlier
years
the
series
of
reports
was
aptly
named
and
it
did
indeed
document
changing
patterns
in
mortgage
lending.
But
for
today's
hearings,
it's
much
more
important
to
emphasize
that
these
reports
documented
the
Persistence
of
one
basic
unchanging
pattern:
substantial
racial
disparities,
blacks
and
Latinos,
consistently
receive
the
shares
of
loans
far
below
their
population
shares
types
of
loans
that
they
did
obtain
were
costlier
and
their
application
for
mortgage
loans
were
persistently
denied.
D
To
be
sure,
the
disparities
in
mortgage
lending
patterns
reflect
the
impact
that
our
long
history
of
racial
discrimination
and
exploitation
has
had
on
the
income
and
wealth
levels,
employment
histories
and
credit
scores
of
blacks
and
Latinos.
Still,
there
can
be
little
doubt
that
racial
discrimination
by
lenders
has
been
and
continues
to
be
part
of
the
problem.
D
Would
it
be
extraordinary
if
it
were
not
given
the
ever-growing
body
of
evidence
of
racial
discrimination
in
so
many
other
areas,
it's
difficult
to
obtain
the
evidence
needed
to
prove
racial
discrimination,
mortgage
lending,
but
not
impossible.
So
I'll
conclude
by
noting
three
studies
that
do
offer
compelling
evidence
for
the
existence
of
such
discrimination.
D
First,
the
highly
influential
Boston
fed
study,
completed
in
19,
published
in
1992,
based
on
access
to
bank
loan
application
files,
so
the
research
had
could
take
into
account
all
of
the
data
that
was
available
to
the
lenders
and
making
their
decisions
found.
Compelling
statistical
evidence
that
a
black
or
Latino
borrower
with
the
exact
same
profile
is
the
average
white
applicant
would
be
60
more
likely
to
be
denied.
D
The
second
study
very
recent
one
was
done
just
December
last
December
by
a
very
by
researchers
at
a
Minneapolis
state
based
on
access
to
the
non-public
portion
of
the
expanded
Home
Mortgage
disclosure
act,
data
that
was
collected
beginning
in
19
2018,
which
included
credit
scores.
It
found
that
black
applicants
were
approximately
twice
as
likely
to
be
denied
as
white
applicants
with
identical
loan
and
borrower
characteristics.
D
So
those
are
two
big
statistical
studies,
but
the
real
the
gold
standard
way
of
getting
that
whether
or
not
there's
mortgage
Landing
discrimination
is
mortgage.
Testing,
paired
testing
and
so
I
want
to
call
your
attention
to
us.
You
may
you
may
know
about,
but
I
think
it's
too
little
known
done
by
the
fair
housing
center
of
greater
Boston
in
2006..
D
D
pages
in
the
report
you
can
find
for
each
of
those
nine
tests
a
very
interesting
and
powerful
summary
paragraph.
What
the
differences
were
so
I
encourage
your
committee,
the
city
council
in
general,
and
to
advocate
for
additional
paired
testing
as
it's
a
very
powerful
method
for
exposing
you've
already
indicated
your
awareness
of
that
so
I'm,
just
echoing
that,
which
I
think
other
members
of
the
panel
probably
will
as
well.
So
it's
my
brief
statement.
I
look
forward
to
any
questions
you
might
have.
A
E
I,
thank
you
councilors
Louisiana
and
councilor
Bach
for
holding
the
hearing
for
being
such
incredible
leaders
on
this
issue
as
well
as
others,
I
have
just
from
my
perspective.
You
have
such
an
August
panel
here
about
with
all
the
studies
I'm
going
to
go
into
a
little
bit
about
what
Maha
is
trying
to
do
and
ways
that
city
council
can
partner
with
us
and
expand
some
of
the
programs
that
are
working
and
some
of
the
things
that
are
reducing
costs
for
Borrowers.
E
So
first
two
of
maha's
Staff
participated
in
the
Greater
Boston,
fair
housing
center
study.
You
both
know
Barbara
rice
and
Cortina
van.
When
Cortina
left.
She
was
told
that
they
would
be
following
right
up
with
her.
They
were
incredibly
cordial.
They
she
had
a
higher
credit
score
and
better
profile
than
Barbara
going
in.
E
E
She
got
no
follow-up
whatsoever.
They
were
hounding
Barbara
for
weeks,
so
it's
so
subtle.
Sometimes
it's
not
even
when
someone
is
in
the
office,
so
it
was
very
clear
that
that
needs
to
continue
that
type
of
testing,
some
other
things
that
were
instituted
at
after
the
Federal
Reserve
Bank
study
in
1989
that
got
Maha
into
this
Arena.
You
know
we
were
organizing
people
who
were
feeling
priced
out
and
pushed
out
of
Boston
in
the
80s.
E
Most
of
them
were
black
women,
and
when
that
study
hit
the
papers
it
gave
us
some
leverage
to
to
go
after
this.
Some
of
those
policies
were,
for
example,
second,
look:
policies
from
a
CRA,
focused
committee
within
a
bank
before
denial
is
issued,
so
I
don't
know,
are
those
things
still
happening
and,
and
they
really
need
to
continue.
E
F
E
Reports
are
being
done.
There's
a
2020
report.
I
think
a
lot
more
could
be
done
in
terms
of
when
we
worked
with
a
councilor,
Felix
Arroyo
on
this
years
ago.
He
was
saying
you
know
the
city's,
a
billion
dollar
customer,
but
we're
not
using
that
power.
The
way
that
we
should,
as
far
as
lowering
mortgage
costs
and
eliminating
some
of
the
barriers,
I
think
one
in
one
plus
Boston.
You
know
when
we
hear
about
FHA
as
a
as
a
great
tool
across
the
country.
A
E
So
when
lenders
root
people
into
FHA
and
some
of
Professor
kampin's
reports
have
also
in
the
past,
looked
at
what
percentage
by
race
are
getting
government-backed.
Loans
versus
conventional
loans,
but
I
would
encourage
the
council
to
work
with
lenders
and
and
cooperatively
with
Maha
and
other
community
organizations
to
expand
the
one
and
one
plus.
E
A
E
We've
been
working
with
the
city
and
and
the
Mass
Housing
Partnership
to
actually
double
the
interest
rate
discount
in
one
plus
Boston,
and
this
week
we
got
confirmation
from
everyone
involved,
the
lender's
MHP
and
the
city
that
that's
going
to
happen.
So
in
addition
to
no
private
mortgage
insurance,
which
is
hundreds
and
hundreds
of
dollars
and
a
there's
going
to
be
a
radically
reduced
interest
rate
for
these
borrowers.
So
if
the
rate
you
know
it's
now
going
to
be
2.3
percentage
points
below.
E
So
if
the
rate
is
7.3,
the
rate
for
one
plus
Boston
will
be
five
percent,
with
no
Mi.
No
risk-based
pricing,
the
Mass
Housing
Partnership
did
look
at
credit
score
data
2
and
actually
recently
reduced
credit.
Minimum
credit
scores
for
the
one
and
one
plus
Boston
and
lenders
can
also
use
alternative
credit,
so
paying
your
utilities
paying
your
rent,
no
really
huge
rent
to
mortgage
shock.
E
So
that
I
think
is
one
of
the
most
powerful
tools
we
have
and
it
should
be
expanded
and
I'd
love
to
have
counselors
work
with
Maha
and
other
community
organizations
to
really
up
the
numbers
in
one
outside,
not
the
council,
but
we
want
to
increase
one
outside
the
city
increase
One,
Plus
Loans
within
the
city
that
does
rely
on
some
interest
rate
subsidy.
You
both
know,
CPA,
has
been
a
source
of
that.
E
Arpa
can
be
a
source
of
that,
but
we
need
to
make
sure
that
every
year
the
city's
part
of
that
partnership
is
in
place
so
that
we
leverage
the
bank
commitment
to
serve
borrowers
to
date.
68
percent
of
borrowers
have
been
people
of
color
in
that
program,
and
40
percent
have
been
black
Borrowers
I
think
we
can
do
even
better
there.
We
now
have
much
bigger
down
payment
assistance.
We
have
mass
dreams,
we
have
the
cities
expanded
down
payment
and
stash
specifically
for
first-gen
home
buyers.
E
So
97
of
people
in
stash
are
first
are
people
of
color
they're,
all
first
gen,
but
97
people
of
color
and
within
that
oops
we've
got
67
percent.
Are
black
Borrowers,
20,
latinx,
seven
percent,
multiple
race
and
two
percent
Asian?
So
these
are
really
strong
programs
that
specifically
redress
past
harms,
but
they're,
not
big
enough,
and
we
need
to
make
sure
that
they're
growing
and
that
the
city's
part
of
it
is
secure
financially
so
that
we
leverage
the
other
partners.
E
The
last
thing
I
would
say
is
we
have,
as
you
know,
a
ton
of
people
running
around
with
a
lot
of
home
buyer
assistants
that
can't
find
anything
to
buy.
So
that
is
a
really
big
choke
point.
So
you
know
how
is
the
city
using
its
housing
subsidy
dollars?
My
husband,
a
broken
record
on
this?
We
want
the
pie
to
be
expanded
for
all
types
of
affordable
housing,
but
a
bigger
share
for
home
ownership.
We're
still
doing
pretty
abysmally
badly
there.
A
E
So
if
you're,
using
cdbg
funds
or
home
funds
or
CPA
funds,
so
every
year
the
city
produces
a
chart
that
I
asked
them
for
every
year,
where
it
shows
IDP
units
what
percenters
are
rental
and
what
percentage
are
home
ownership
and
then
government-funded,
affordable,
housing,
what
percentage
or
rental
and
what
percentage
are
home
ownership?
And
then,
within
that
chart
you
can
see
each
income
group
within
that.
E
Whatever
the
the
affordables,
the
50
to
80
people,
making
55
65
75
000
a
year,
they
can
sustain
home
ownership
if
they're
given
an
affordable
opportunity,
but
our
subsidy
dollars
are
going
and
our
sub
and
our
subsidized
units
are
almost
entirely
rental
and
that's
not
just
a
city
thing,
I,
think
of
Sheila
Dylan.
The
housing
Chief
were
here.
E
City
land
is
also
another
big
resource.
How
is
that
being
used?
We're
talking
about
Dorchester
Bay
City
a
lot
now
it's
2
000
units
400,
affordable
rentals.
Is
there
going
to
be
any
stabilizing
homeownership
coming
out
of
that?
The
bpda
is
unclear
about
how
much
of
that
is
going
to
happen,
and
so
that's
another
area
where
city,
council
and
bpda
and
the
mayor
have
a
lot
to
say
about
what's
developed
in
Boston
and
what
are
the
community
benefits
that
come
out
of
it,
especially
for
black
and
brown
communities.
F
A
You
never
know
if
a
landlord
is
going
to
increase
your
rent,
but
if
you
have
a
fixed
rate
mortgage,
you
know
how
much
you
got
to
allocate
to
that.
So
I
just
want
to
thank
you
for
that.
Testimony.
Gonna
move
on
to
Professor
I
may
be
jumping
the
gun
on
Professor,
but
Dr
cornelison,
but
also
want
to
note
that
I've
been
joined
by
my
colleagues,
City
councilor
at
large
Mejia
and
City
councilor
for
district
four
Brian
morale.
Thank
you.
A
G
G
I'm
a
postdoctoral
fellow
at
the
Harford
Jordan
Center
for
housing
studies
and
since
2019
I've,
drawn
on
interviews,
qualitative
observations
and
data
analysis
to
conduct
research
on
how
black
immigrants
homebuyers,
many
of
whom
were
priced
out
of
Boston,
are
moving
to
and
transforming
the
city
of
Brockton
I
identified.
Four
key
trends
and
challenges
for
black
home
buyers
living
in
Massachusetts.
G
G
Yes,
I
know
it's
complicated.
Our
data
shows
that
racial
segregation
is
actually
increasing.
Cities
like
Boston,
like
Brockton,
are
becoming
increasingly
black
in
the
midst
of
counties
like
Plymouth
County
that
remains
overwhelmingly
White.
This
newly
emerging
racial
segregation
around
Boston
is
problematic
as
many
white
homebuyers
avoid
buying
in
these
segregating
cities.
Future
home
appreciation
May
lag
behind
in
these
places,
which
would
limit
well
building
for
black
homeowners.
There.
G
Moreover,
segregating
cities
like
Brockton,
also
face
an
aging
infrastructure,
the
burdens
of
abandoned
Industrial
and
Commercial
Property
problems
with
urban
violence
and
school
systems
stretched
by
the
needs
of
first
generation
immigrants
and
lower
income
students.
Segregation
concentrates
these
issues
and
their
costs
in
Black
majority
communities,
which
in
turn
perpetuates
racial
inequalities
and
local
resources
and
opportunities.
G
Fourth
and
finally,
FHA
Loans
continue
to
play
a
key
role
in
enabling
homeownership
for
black
home
buyers
in
Massachusetts.
Indeed,
from
2018
to
2021,
40
of
black
home
buyers
bought
a
home
with
an
FHA
mortgage
in
Massachusetts
much
higher
than
the
nine
percent
of
white
home
buyers
who
relied
on
FHA
loan.
G
Fha
Loans
are
government-backed
loans
that
Target,
first-time
homebuyers.
They
require
a
loan
low
down
payment
for
only
from
only
3.5
percent,
and
they
do
not
have
risk-based
pricing,
which
often
makes
them
the
most
affordable
option
for
buyers
with
a
lower
credit
score.
I
have
two
key
concerns
about
how
racial
discrimination
can
happen
with
FHA
Loans,
so
first
black
home
buyers
who
would
qualify
for
conventional
loan
and
for
whom
it
may
be
a
better
option,
may
end
up
with
an
FHA
product.
G
If
this
happens,
they
ultimately
end
up
paying
more
for
a
mortgage
than
they
should,
and
this
connects
to
to
what
you
were
saying
about.
You
know
one
mortgage
and
one
plus
mortgage
as
being
a
more
affordable
option
than
FHA
in
Massachusetts
two.
My
research
is
also
on
Earth.
It
concerns
about
how
welcomed
FHA
mortgages
are
in
competitive
housing
markets
around
Boston,
especially
during
the
pandemic.
Fha
buyers
struggle
to
compete
with
Buyers,
making
cash
offers
or
buyers
have
a
waving
contingencies.
G
I
have
also
found
that
some
Sellers
and
their
Realtors
May
perceive
FHA
as
a
stigmatized
products.
Seeing
FHA
buyers
are
somehow
less
reliable,
fearing
that
the
transaction
may
fall
through
with
FHA
or
wanting
to
avoid
the
additional
bureaucracy
of
an
FHA
inspection
and
Appraisal.
These
are
things
that
cannot
be
waived
for
FHA,
so
the
stigma
of
FHA
in
competitive
markets
May
introduce
additional
challenges
for
black
home
buyers,
who
disproportionately
rely
on
FHA
Loans.
G
So
overall,
while
the
pandemic
has
brought
some
encouraging
gains
to
have
black
home
buying
in
Massachusetts,
we
also
have
new
concerns,
notably
about
the
diminishing
share
of
black
home
buyers
in
Boston
itself,
about
growing
racial
segregation
in
cities
and
towns
around
Boston
and
about
who
getting
who
gets
an
FHA
mortgage
and
where
they
are
able
to
buy
with
FHA.
So
thank
you
and
I
look
forward
to
any
questions.
Thank.
H
Thank
you
councilor
and
thank
you
for
the
invitation
to
be
here
this
morning
and
give
testimony
on
these
important
issues.
Thank
you
and
the
other
counselors
for
your
leadership
on
these
issues
of
equity
and
access
to
housing
in
Boston
I'm.
Here
today,
representing
my
name
is
Tom
Callahan
I'm
here
today
representing
the
partnership
for
financial
Equity,
a
new
name
for
an
organization
that's
been
around
since
1990..
H
We
started
in
1990
as
the
Massachusetts
Community
banking
Council
to
provide
a
form
for
Massachusetts
financial
institutions
and
Community
organizations
to
meet
and
share
information
with
the
goal
of
affecting
positive
change
in
the
availability
of
credit
and
financial
services
in
traditionally
underserved
communities
across
the
Commonwealth.
We
have
a
proud
history
as
a
sponsor
of
basic
banking
for
Massachusetts,
the
first
voluntary
Statewide
low-cost
checking
and
savings
account
program
established
in
1994..
H
In
1999
we
developed
the
anti-predatory
lending
campaign,
don't
borrow
trouble
that
was
adopted
by
then
Mayor
Menino
and
later
by
nationally
by
Freddie
Mac
and
for
over
25
years
we
have
produced
high
quality
research
reports.
I
can
say
that
because
Professor
kampin
was
the
author
of
most
of
those
reports
on
home
mortgage
lending
and
small
business
lending
reports
patterns.
H
These
reports
led
to
the
passage
of
the
mortgage
lender,
Community
investment
law
or
mortgage
CRA
in
that
2007,
as
Massachusetts
became
the
first
state
in
the
nation
now
followed
by
Illinois
to
cover
independent
mortgage
companies
or
non-depositories
for
community
reinvestment
activities.
That
leads
to
our
first
comment
this
morning.
H
In
the
coming
months,
we
will
release
our
first
report
on
mortgage
lending
with
our
new
partners
at
the
chicago-based
Woodstock
Institute
today,
I
can
give
you
a
brief
preview
of
what
that
report
will
show
in
regards
to
mortgage
lending
in
the
city
of
Boston,
54
of
all
home
purchase
mortgage
loans
in
the
city
of
Boston,
in
2021,
we're
made
by
licensed
mortgage
lenders
or
out-of-state
banks
with
no
Grant
out
of
state
banks
with
no
branches.
Here
in
Massachusetts,
less
than
half
46
were
made
by
massachusetts-based
Banks
and
Credit
Unions
with
Community
reinvestment
act
obligations.
Here.
H
By
what
we
call
lmls
or
licensed
mortgage
companies
and
we've
added
to
that
category,
the
out
of
the
Wells
Fargo's
of
the
world
right,
a
bank
that
has
out
of
state
it's
a
bank,
but
it
does
not
have
branches
here,
and
at
least
as
of
this
moment,
if
you
don't
have
a
branch
here,
you
don't
have
a
CRA
responsibility
here
that,
hopefully,
is
changing
coming
with
new
regs
from
the
FED.
But
but
that's
this
is
a
continuation
of
trend.
We've
seen
for
the
last
several
years.
H
F
H
As
you
can
see
licensed
mortgage
company,
the
the
you
know,
the
performance
varies,
however,
to
to
some
of
the
earlier
testimony
from
my
colleagues
here.
Licensed
mortgage
lenders
are
more
often
using
the
higher
cost
FHA
Loans
to
serve
Boston
Borrowers,
with
4.4
percent
of
purchase
originations
by
these
lenders
being
FHA
Loans,
while
just
0.6
of
bank
and
state
chartered
Credit
Unions
home
purchase
mortgages
were
FHA
so
six
times
more.
H
H
The
partnership
for
financial
Equity
is
currently
serving
on
two
different
National
panels.
Addressing
this
issue
in
November,
we
accepted
an
invitation
to
participate
in
the
council
to
advance
residential
Equity
care
and
effort
by
the
appraisal
Foundation
to
address
the
issues
of
appraisal
discrimination,
as
well
as
the
lack
of
diversity
in
the
profession.
In
December
we
were
invited
to
participate
in
the
appraisal,
salon
convened
by
alignment
advisors
on
new
york-based,
consulting
firm.
H
This
effort
was
initiated
by
NAFA
the
National
Fair
Housing
Alliance,
and
includes
the
center
for
responsible
Lending,
core
logic:
National
Association,
Realtors,
Mortgage,
Bankers,
Association,
the
real
estate
valuation
advocacy,
Association
rocket
mortgage
and
many
others.
It's
a
cross-industry
sort
of
attempt
to
try
to
figure
out
how
we
can
root
out
bias
in
the
appraisal
system.
H
Excuse
me
all
currently
licensed
and
certified.
Appraisers
would
need
to
complete
an
in-depth
seven
hour
course
in
valuation
bias
and
fair
housing
laws
and
regulations,
but
with
no
comprehension
exam.
We
we
think
everybody
should
have
the
exam
at
the
end,
but
that's
still
to
be
determined
after
the
initial
seven
hour
course
all
licensed
and
certified
appraisers
would
need
to
complete
a
four
hour
refresher
course.
H
This
is
only
one
of
the
issues,
though,
that
needs
to
be
addressed
if
we
want
to
have
confidence
in
home
appraisals
for
black
and
brown
borrowers,
empowering
consumers
with
a
clear
and
effective
reconsideration
of
value
process
when
they
believe
that
the
value
was
not
fair,
Reliance
on
technology
to
identify
racial
bias,
picking
out
words
that
are
used
in
appraisal
reports,
for
instance,
governance
of
the
appraisal,
regulatory
structure
and
recruitment
of
a
more
diverse
appraisal.
Workforce
are
all
issues
that
are
Urgent
and
need
attention
from
government
lenders,
appraisers
and
community
and
civil
rights
organizations.
H
A
You
Tom
I'm
I,
am
an
unconventional
chair
in
that
I
have
questions
as
I
go
so,
but
I'm
just
still
stuck
on
this
time.
So
the
average
income
of
a
person
buying
a
home
in
Boston
in
2021
was
254.
100
now
is
that
one
person
is
that
two
people
does
it
depend
on
sort
of
what
the
mortgage
application
looks
like.
H
H
H
That
is
mean
yeah
yeah,
the
one
of
the
things
I
was
talking
to
Bob
Terrell
earlier.
This
report
is
going
to
include
essentially
these
types
of
numbers
and
statistics
for
not
only
the
city
as
a
whole,
but
for
each
neighborhood
in
the
city,
so
we'll
be
able
to
produce
you'll,
be
able
to
read
those
numbers.
I
J
I
A
Right,
thank
you
and
this
I
believe
in
what
I
call
participatory
conversations.
So
that's
that's.
How
I
leave
things
if
I
have
a
question?
I
just
want
to
be
able
to
ask
it
and
that's
not
always
how
we
do
it
here
on
city
council,
but
and
then
last,
but
definitely
not
least,
we
have
Whitney
Demetrius,
you
know
have
the
floor.
Thank
you.
Thank.
J
J
Housing
and
Planning
Association,
where
I'm,
currently
the
director
of
fair
housing
engagement,
where
I
previously
worked
at
the
fair
housing
center
of
greater
Boston
as
a
deputy
director
over
our
testing
program,
there
so
really
excited
and
happy
to
be
part
of
this
conversation
here
today.
Our
vision,
really
at
chaffa
around
fair
housing,
is
that
everyone
deserves
years
to
live
in
a
house
and
a
home
in
which
they
choose
that's
free
from
housing,
discrimination
right
that
is
safe,
that's
healthy,
that's,
accessible
and,
and
certainly
that
is
Affordable
and
so
at
Chapel.
J
We
believe
that
we
must
be
really
intentional
and
proactive
around
how
we
work
to
eliminate
housing
discrimination
and
promote
open
communities
throughout
the
state,
and
so
that
work
really
has
to
be
rooted
in
redressing
the
history
of
the
policies
and
the
practices
that
we
know
to
be
true
and
to
really
take
a
multi-pronged
approach
to
really
being
able
to
address
these
issues
right,
really
putting
people
first
being
mindful
around
production,
preservation
and
planning.
So
those
sort
of
four
P's.
J
While
we
sit
today
on
the
heels
of
getting
ready
to
approach,
April
right,
the
heels
of
fair
housing
month,
National
Fair
Housing
month
will
be
55
years,
since
the
enactment
of
the
fair
housing
act
right
in
1968..
So
the
history
of
zoning
and
segregation
and
redlining
really
impacts
the
communities
that
we
know
and
that
we
see
today
so
fixing
the
lending
and
Appraisal
system
is
really
critical.
However,
we
understand
that
the
appraisal
industry
exists
within
an
entire
system
right
and
that
the
entire
system
that
needs
to
be
addressed
from
an
equity
standpoint.
J
J
It
also
means
being
able
to
move
back
to
communities
right,
and
so
we
understand
that
the
lack
of
housing,
as
my
fellow
panelists
have
alluded
to
the
house,
the
lack
of
housing
Supply
really
does
impact
that
as
well,
and
that's
certainly
one
of
our
priorities
at
Chapa
and
so
eliminating
discrimination.
I'm,
really
at
lays
directly
into
being
able
to
expand
housing
choice
for
individuals.
J
You
heard
a
lot
of
studies
referenced
here
today
and
a
lot
of
the
which
has
examined
have
these
things
over
a
course
of
history.
We
understand
that
this
history
of
redlining,
actually
Frederick
Babcock,
who
wrote
a
lot
of
the
policies
around
redlining,
also
wrote
the
policies
around
appraisal
right,
and
so
we
understand
that
these
things
are
sort
of
intentionally
baked
into
this.
J
These
systems
right
around
appraisal,
appraisal,
discrimination
and
valuing
of
communities,
and
so
we
understand
as
well
that
a
lot
of
this
is
cyclical
right
where
we
saw-
and
we
have
to
sort
of
understand
that
these
things
sort
of
happen
in
ways
right
in
1970s.
There
was
a
lot
more
regulation
happening,
the
1980s
arise
again
in
house
and
discrimination
lending
discrimination.
What
have
you
in
1990s?
More
regulation
happened
right
2000
we
saw
that
rise
in
housing,
discrimination
or
the
Foreclosure
crisis,
these
sort
of
things
2010.
J
J
A
lot
of
the
research
that
we
know
to
be
true.
The
report
that
Jim
campen
alluded
to
the
Gap
persists
that
the
greater
greater
fair
housing
center
of
greater
Boston
issued
the
Gap
still
persists
right,
and
so
that's
really.
How
do
we?
How
do
we
not
have
to
say
that
again
in
the
next
10
or
20
years,
and
so
I
wanted
to
also
allude
to
your
question
councilor
back
around
what
sort
of
testing
and
investigation
and
enforcement
can
we
be
doing
in
the
appraisal
space?
The
national
Community
reinvestment
Coalition?
J
Just
last
year,
2020
published
an
appraisal
discrimination
study
right,
the
first
of
its
kind.
It
was
called
faulty
foundations
right.
They
found,
of
course,
what
we
know
to
be
true
in
this
space
that
individual
testers,
who
were
black
homeowners,
experience
discrimination
at
high
and
alarming
rates.
J
Forty
thousand
dollars
difference
right
that
the
home
the
white
home
owner
was
appraised
at
and
in
that
separate
instance,
it
was
forty
six
thousand
dollars
more
that
the
white
homeowner
versus
their
their
black
partner
had
experience
right
and
so
on
average
in
their
study.
They
it
was
about
seven
thousand
dollars
difference
for
each
test,
right
that
they
encountered,
but
the
the
Discrimination
goes
beyond
just
that
value
is
that
valuation.
J
It
also
has
a
lot
in
in
terms
of
the
impact
of
their
treatment
right,
black
homeowners,
who
receive
reports
at
delayed
of
11
weeks-
and
you
know
those
sort
of
like
having
to
actively
go
act,
go
after
the
the
the
appraiser
to
get
their
final
report.
The
actual
fine
findings
which
on
Tom
alluded
to
that
sometimes
can
be
found
in
the
reports
with
different
information
with
some
different
comparative
communities
right,
and
so
this
these
larger
impacts
of
of
what
it
really
means
to
think
about.
J
Being
able
to
do
that
and
replicate
that
here
in
terms
of
unveiling
what's
happening
in
the
appraisal,
Market
and
and
really
being
able
to
uplift
that
into
real
policy
and
program
changes,
and
so
I'm
I'll
I'll
keep
my
remarks
short
just
to
say
that
I
think
again,
we
have
to
be
really
proactive
about
what
we
are
doing
in
the
space.
I'm
excited
for
the
report
that
just
came
out
today.
J
A
You
so
much
Nia
and
we
come
around
for
questions
I'll.
Allow
you
to
give
us
more
detail
about
one
and
when
and
where
that
event
is
so
that
Folks
at
home
and
present
can
know
and
can
attend
so
I
will
now.
Oh
I
would
like
to
acknowledge
that
we've
been
joined
by
our
city
council
president
city
council
for
District
Two,
president
Ed
Flynn.
Thank
you
for
joining
us.
C
Great,
thank
you
so
much
councilor
Jen
and
thank
you
to
the
panelists
for
just
a
wealth
of
information.
Even
if
it's
you
know,
in
many
cases,
alarming
information
and
and
looking
forward
to
both
that
event
that
you
just
spoke
about
and
the
release
Tom
of
what
is
now
very
anticipated
by
the
council
report
by
the
by
your
organization.
C
But
but
the
volume
isn't
there
for
everybody
to
flip
tomorrow
and
so
I
think
it
would
be
really
helpful
for
the
council
politically
to
like
understand
what
are
the
barriers
to
that
and
like
what
are
the
things
that
grow
the
volume
and
and
also
to
recognize
that.
Well,
there
is
a
public
subsidy
piece.
A
piece
of
this
is
also
about
asking
our
banks
to
step
up
and
I.
E
Thanks
so
the
OnePlus
Boston,
as
many
of
you
know,
is
a
it
builds
on
the
base
of
One
Mortgage,
which
really
is
a
public-private
partnership,
and
there
is,
there
are
certain
commitments
that
participating
lenders
have
to
make
and
for
all
One
loans.
They
sign
a
contract
with
MHP
and
they
do
contribute
to
the
affordability,
the
state,
then,
in
exchange
for
the
contributions
that
the
lenders
make,
the
state
provides
two
pieces.
One
is
a
loan
loss,
Reserve
fund.
E
It
was
part
of
the
original
negotiation
in
1990
to
eliminate
private
mortgage
insurance,
even
with
the
three
percent
down
payment
that
loan
loss
Reserve
is
significantly
a
lighter,
lift
a
way
lighter
lift
than
private
mortgage
insurance.
So
the
lenders
do
accept
some
level
of
risk
there
that
the
mouse
Housing
partnership
does
issue
quarterly
reports
on
performance.
This
is
a
very
publicly
scrutinized
program
and
over
its
30
plus
years
it
has
performed
really
well.
E
The
delinquency
and
default
rates
have
been
better
than
mortgages
overall
in
Massachusetts,
despite
having
a
very
high
percentage
at
the
very
lowest
end
of
the
income
scale.
This
has
Far
and
Away
the
lowest
income
borrowers
of
any
Mortgage
in
the
state.
The
other
piece
that
the
state
provides
is
a
graduated
interest
payment
for
borrowers
under
80
percent
of
Ami,
so
over
the
first
seven
years
of
the
loan,
they
get
an
interest
rate
subsidy
if
they
need
it.
E
In
addition
to
the
bank
lowering
the
interest
rate
somewhat,
so
some
of
that
benefit
again
comes
from
the
bank
lowers
the
rate
the
bank
doesn't
require
private
mortgage
insurance.
There
are
no
loan
level
price
adjusters
and
then
the
if
that
borrower
needs
additional
subsidy,
that
it
will
go
down
even
further
for
the
first
seven
years
of
the
loan.
It
correct
it
stays
the
same
for
four
years
and
then
gradually
increases
years
five
through
seven,
so
that
all
of
these
things,
I
would
add,
were
negotiated
with
prospective
home
buyers.
E
Women
of
color,
primarily
at
the
table
negotiating
with
with
the
city,
the
state
and
the
lenders,
and
the
program
has
changed
over
time
as
the
environment
has
changed.
Oneplus
came
into
existence
because
of
home
prices
in
Boston,
so
there's
that
state
layer
on
top
of
that
the
city
provides
additional
interest
rate
subsidy
and
some
enhanced
down
payment
assistance,
and
this
happened
prior
to
mass
dreams.
E
So
now
you
can
add
Mass
streams
and
the
city's
Financial
down
payment
assistance
and
what
was
until
up
until
now
has
been
an
additional
one
percentage
point
reduction
now
for
buyers
under
80
percent
Ami.
It
will
be
an
additional
two
percentage
points.
Why
are
we
making
this
so
complicated
down
payment
assistance
is
so
much
easier
to
understand.
E
So
it
I
have
I
too,
have
a
little
chart,
so
a
buyer
that
can
that
can
afford
306
000
with
a
conventional
loan
right,
that's
already
below
FHA,
but
306
with
a
conventional
loan
with
one
it's
397.
So
almost
a
hundred
thousand
dollars
increase
between
conventional
and
one
mortgage,
one
plus
it
would
be
up
to
450,
so
150
difference
between
conventional
and
one
plus
and
now,
with
one
plus
plus
it's
up
to
541
000.,
with
the
same
payment
that
a
conventional
loan,
you
can
buy
a
three
hundred
thousand
dollar
house
with
one
plus.
E
You
can
buy
a
five
hundred
and
forty
one
thousand
dollar
home.
So
that's
why
it's
structured
in
this
complicated
way.
It's
way
above
my
pay
grade
to
figure
that
out.
But
we
again
we
were
the
community
Force
saying
we
need
housing.
We
need
stability
and
fortunately
we
had
amazing
Partners
at
the
city
and
at
MHP
who
have
the
technical
expertise
to
figure
that
out
that
that's
how
we
get
the
biggest
bang
for
the
buck.
We
do
and
I
would
say
that
the
throttle
hold
right
now
is
Supply.
E
So
if
we
can
do
we
have
to
do
something
about
Supply,
so
we
have
12
Banks
now
in
one
plus
in
Boston,
that's
amazing,
but
we
need
council
help
to
to
help
Monitor
and
how
many
loans
can
you
commit
to,
and
how
many
did
you
actually
do?
Oh,
you
didn't
quite
meet
the
goal.
What
are
other
things
you're
going
to
do
as
a
lender
to
make
sure
that
you
hit
the
mark.
But
lenders
are
coming
back
saying.
E
E
So
again,
that's
why
I
kind
of
harped
on
the
city,
resources
and
development
in
the
city,
as
other
really
important
levers
to
marry
with
not
to
you
know,
do
instead
so
maximize
one
plus
that
doubles
your
impact
right,
every
dollar,
into
subsidy
of
a
home
price
or
every
dollar
into
down
payment
assistance.
You
get
two
dollars
and
one
plus,
but
then
you
need
other
factors.
C
Think
the
reality
is
that
in
a
very
limited
Supply,
those
folks
are
going
to
keep
out
competing
and
even
when
we
are
super
increasing
those,
like
you
said,
people's
buying
power,
it's
just
so
far
below
the
average
stock
available.
I
think.
That
is
why
it's
important
that
the
city
put
money
into
affordable,
Housing,
Home,
Ownership
stock
Creation
with
arpa,
but
the
question
of
like
how
do
we
actually
grow
that
Supply?
C
So
it
does
feel
like
we
have
to
have
both
things
together,
but
I
I.
Thank
you
for
that.
Walk
through
Hillary
I
wanted
us
to
talk
about
it
because
to
me,
I
often
like
tell
the
story
of
the
advocacy
for
this.
Just
because
it's
like
one
of
the
like
quickest
stories,
I
know
in
my
life
of
Boston
politics,
of
sort
of
seeing
folks
get
together
in
church,
basements
and
maha's,
organizing
room
and
say
hey.
C
The
landscape
I
think
that
the
progress
on
OnePlus
Boston
has
been
exemplary,
but
now
we're
in
this
crazy
interest
rate
environment
and
Supply
constriction
such
that
like
we
would
be
so
much
more
further
behind.
If
you
all
hadn't
worked
as
part
of
a
coalition
on
that,
and
yet
we
also
need
to
do
so
much
more
Madam,
chair
I
can
say
my
other
questions,
but
next
round.
Thank.
I
You
chair
and
thank
you
all
for
being
here
so
I.
First,
let
me
just
start
off
by
saying
I'm
also
a
Maha
graduate
and
I
purchased
a
home
in
2017
out
of
necessity,
the
Triple
Decker
that
my
mom
I
lived
in.
She
was
under
Section
8,
and
the
person
who
purchased
the
home
increase
the
rent
to
the
point
that
my
mom
and
her
low
wage
work
wasn't
going
to
be
able
to
keep
up
with
the
rent.
I
So
I
said
to
my
mom:
I'm
gonna
buy
a
house
and
at
the
time
I
didn't
even
know
what
my
credit
score
was
and
I
had
to
take
out
my
entire
401k
to
be
able
to
do
that
and
I
ended
up
on
the
FHA
situation,
so
I'm
curious.
You
know,
I
think
that
the
people
that
to
follow
the
work
that
we're
trying
to
do
here
on
this
Council
would
benefit
from
really
understanding
kind
of
like
in
just
the
most
simplest
terms,
kind
of
the
the
dangers
around
that
right.
I
Right
because
I
I
don't
think
see,
there's
a
there's
just
something
that's
happening
in
the
high
level
that
when
you
get
down
to
it,
the
people
just
get
so
confused.
I
was
just
so
happy
that
I
got
approved.
I,
didn't
care,
I,
didn't
look
at
the
red
tape.
I
didn't
look
at
any
I'm
like
oh,
my
God
they're,
giving
me
a
loan.
Yes,.
E
So
one
thing
that
we're
working
on
now
that
we've
done
in
the
past
is
a
simple
one-page
chart.
It
says
same
house:
this
is
what
you
pay
FHA.
This
is
what
you
pay
Mass
housing.
This
is
what
you
pay
one.
This
is
what
you
pay
one
plus
so
that
you
don't
have
to
understand
all
the
jargon
from
the
mortgage
industry.
You
can
just
say
same
house.
These
are
the
different
products
and
what
I'd
pay
on
the
flip
side.
E
These
are
the
products.
This
is
my
same
income.
This
is
what
I
can
afford
to
buy
and
we
will
Maha
educates
almost
3
000
home
buyers
a
year
and
we
distribute
those
charts
there,
but
also
to
the
other,
first-time
homebuyer
organizations,
so
that
people
will
have
a
really
simple
way
to
evaluate,
and
then
you
have
to
go
to
the
right
lender.
That's
where
you
get
off
track
is
if
someone
after
you
leave
the
homebuyer
classes.
Oh
my
friend,
Fred
yeah,
he's
great.
A
Councilman
here
can
I
also
interject,
because
I
think
maybe
what
you're
asking
is
if
one
of
the
cat
with
one
of
The
Advocates
could
Define
what
PMI
is
so
that
folks
can
know
what
the
PMI
is
and
also
again
the
difference
between
a
conventional
loan
and
ffha
Loan.
So,
like
the
Bare
Bones
basic,
if
that's
not
what
you
want,
then
you
don't
have
to.
J
J
And
it
was
crucial
for
for
me
in
going
through
that
process
to
understand
the
various
nuances,
but
of
but
also
knowing
that
they
were
a
resource
to
come
back
to
once.
I
was
primed
and
ready
to
purchase
the
home
to
be
able
to
get
more
information
right
and
also
to
know
that
if
I
was
violated
or
felt
like
I
had
been
discriminated
or
or
had
gotten
something
that
was,
you
know,
sort
of
unequal
treatment.
J
I
knew
where
to
go
right,
so
knowing
that
I
could
file
a
complaint
at
mcad
or
I
could
go
to
the
fair
housing
commission
at
the
city
of
Boston
and
be
able
to
come
to
them
and
come
to
Advocates
to
really
be
able
to
stand
in
my
place
to
talk
about.
You
know
talk
through
what
those
things
are
to
be
able
to
get
resources
and
so
I.
J
I
think
is
what's
important
and
but
also
in
order
for
those
agencies
to
do
that
work.
Well,
they
have
to
be
resourced
right.
You
have
to
put
funding
behind
those
things
with
Bob
Terrell
and
others
Dwayne
Tyndall.
My
mentors
in
the
space
have
always
told
me.
You
know
budgets
are
moral
documents
so
like
how
do
we
make
sure
that
these
agencies
are
then
positioned
in
such
a
way
to
be
able
to
help
folks,
but
also
so
that
before
they
get
into
these
troubling
situations,
they
know
where
they
could
potentially
go
and
elevating?
H
H
You
talked
about
the
rabbit
hole,
yeah
and
I
wanted
to
speak
specifically
to
that
I'm
Guaranteed
Rate
mortgage
had
3
000
Boston
residents
apply
for
a
mortgage
last
year
rocket
mortgage
had
thirteen
hundred
Fairway
Independent
Mortgage
company
had
a
thousand
and
Loan
Depot
had
almost
a
thousand
nine
hundred
none
of
those
institutions.
If
you
open
the
door
into
those
institutions
and
got
down
that
path,
none
of
them
offer
you
the
one
or
one
plus
that's
right.
They
they
don't
offer
that
product.
H
So
we've
we've
got
Boston,
has
54
percent
of
its
mortgage
loans
being
done
by
these
mortgage
companies
and
out
of
State
Banks.
That's
actually,
when
you
see
the
whole
report,
that's
actually
good
news,
many
other
geographies
Gateway
cities
and
others
you're
going
to
see
those
numbers
being
two-thirds
mortgage
companies
and
one-third
Bank.
H
This
is
a
trend
that
is
going
to
be
hard
to
reverse,
but
I
think
we
should
think
about
obviously
Banks
who
can
fill
that
void,
but
also,
how
can
we
engage
the
mortgage
companies
to
partner
with
banks
in
different
ways
that
they
haven't
thought
about
yet
because
they're
beating
the
banks
in
some
cases
at
their
own
gain?
Historically,
you
thought
of
a
bank
to
go
to
mortgage
company
right
rocket.
Has
Super
Bowl
ads
press
button
get
mortgage?
That's
the
new
way.
All
of
us
think
about
getting
mortgages.
H
I
have
two
20-something
daughters,
they
don't
necessarily
first
think
of
a
bank.
They
think
I'm
gonna
go
to
a
mortgage
company
because
that's
who
they
see
really
advertising
so
I.
Think
a
partnership
I
think
we
have
the
tools
here
in
Massachusetts
here
in
Boston,
to
create
a
local
secondary
Market,
where
these
mortgage
companies
originate,
sell
to
A,
lender
a
bank
lender
or
sell
to
an
intermediary
or
some
combination
of
money
coming
from
intermediaries
and
Banks,
because
we're
we're
fighting
over
a
smaller
share
of
the
pie
with
when
we
talk
about
Jess,
Banks
and
I.
H
I
No
no
I
know
don't
be
sorry.
Please
I
appreciate
that,
because
we
have
a
lot
of
people
who
are
tuning
in
that
could
benefit
from.
You
know
what
you're
sharing
right
now,
because
it
helps
provide
some
context
in
terms
of
the.
Why
we're
here
so
I
appreciate
that
the
only
thing
that
I
just
wanted
to
uplift
right
is
that
I.
I
Think
to
this
point
is
that
when
you're
local
and
you
have
people
here
it,
it
makes
it
a
little
bit
more
personal
so
that
you
have
somebody
who
you
can
really
hold
accountable
or
at
least
develop
a
more
meaningful
relationship
with
it
doesn't
feel
like
some
out
of
state
out
of
country
and
sometimes
even
out
of
the
country
type
of
situation.
But
I
just
wanted
to
end
with
this.
I
Is
that
you
know
a
lot
of
the
parents
that
I
used
to
work
with
have
wanted
to
purchase
a
home
but
had
to
move
to
Brockton,
and
you
are
absolutely
right.
The
migration
plan
to
displace
black
and
brown
people,
based
on
where
you
believe
they
should
be
living,
has
created
a
a
pathway
outside
of
Boston
and
most
of
the
parents.
I
A
K
Okay,
thank
you,
Council
block
and
chair
Louis
Jan,
and
thank
you
to
the
panelists
and
I
worked
in
real
estate
for
20
years
and
I.
Remember
just
kind
of
wondering
why,
right
when
I
went
to
a
open
house
or
put
in
the
offer
why
the
FHA
loan
was
even
though
it
was
above
asking
price,
we
were
being
accommodated
to
the
seller
on
all
their
on
all
their
ass.
You
know
why.
K
Why
was
just
so
much
stigma
around
the
FHA
loans
and
it
bothered
me
for
so
long
and
I'm
glad
that
at
the
time
I
wasn't
really
aware
of
like
the
OnePlus
mortgage.
So
it
sounds
like
that.
Is
the
solution
to
kind
of
root
out
the
bias
between
FHA
is
putting
people
into
one
plus
mortgage,
but
that
used
to
bother
me
and
I'm
glad
that
we
have
a
solution
to
that.
K
But
it
sounds
like
we're
still
trying
to
figure
out
like
the
solution
to
like
the
average
income
part
of
it,
because,
even
though
that
the
the
One
Mortgage
will
get
you
out
of
that
bias
in
the
in
the
competitive
market,
it
sounds
like
the
500
000
is
still
below
the
904,
the
average
price
of
914
000
right
of
a
sale
of
a
home.
So
what
what
other
you
know
Solutions?
K
Can
we
provide
to
help
increase
the
buying
power
of
of
of
our
home
buyers
to
make
it
actual
reality
for
them
to
buy
here
in
Boston?
And
then
the
other
part
that
I
hear
from
home
buyers
is
sometimes
it's
the
inventory
not
like,
not
the
lack
of
inventory,
but
the
actual
inventory.
That's
here
in
Boston
right
that
it's
no
one
wants
to
live
in
a
condo
when
they
could
get
a
single
family
house
with
a
backyard
like.
Are
we
hearing
that
and
I
guess
this
is
for
you
Hillary,
like?
E
So
I'd
say
we
have
a
mix
with
3
000
buyers,
you're
going
to
have
a
mix
and
it's
a
balancing
act
for
the
city,
particularly
in
terms
of
new
development.
How
many
home
owners
can
you
create
in
a
somewhat
limited
amount
of
land
right
within
Boston,
so
yeah?
Some
people
are
going
to
Attleboro.
Now
you
know
brockton's
even
become
Out
Of
Reach
for
a
lot
of
our
buyers,
so
Taunton
and
Attleboro
are
really
big
destinations.
E
There's
a
smaller
City
funded
program
as
you're
well
aware,
but
Section
8
to
homeownership
really
takes
a
lot
of
that
Federal
subsidy
and
says
who's
getting
the
equity
who's.
Getting
the
appreciation
on
these
properties.
It
should
be
the
people
who
are
getting
the
federal
assistance
and
as
far
as
affordability
for
people
who
don't
have
section
8
or
some
other
way
to
subsidize
the
payment
going
all
the
way
around
I
think
not
only
the
city's
development
and
City
funded
development.
E
But
what
are
our
developers
developing
in
this
city
is
another
huge
Avenue
I'm,
sorry
councilor
Mejia
just
had
to
leave
because
Dorchester
Bay
City
is
a
really
big
deal
in
Dorchester
and
I.
Look
forward
to
speaking
with
you
later
today
about
it,
but
it's
one
example
of
many.
You
know:
Harvard
is
going
to
develop
a
third
of
Allston
and
their
partners
and
there's
things
going
up
all
over
the
city.
How
are
we
using
our
land?
The
city
is
doing
the
zoning
right
for
the
development.
E
The
developers
can't
do
do
what
they
want
to
do
unless
the
city
partners
with
them
to
change
the
zoning
to
specifically
allow
it.
So
the
city
has
a
huge
role
in
what
might
otherwise
be
a
purely
private
sector
resource
and
councilor
Bach
I
know
you
mentioned
too
right.
All
these
things
are
flipping
to
Labs,
but
if
we
don't
I'll,
say
Dorchester
Bay
City
again,
just
because
we're
in
Dorchester
and
I
know
that
one.
But
you
know
there's
other
things:
15
000
new
jobs,
but
how
many
new
homeownership
units
right
now
is
zero.
E
That
project
could
throw
off
a
ton
of
affordable
home
ownership
opportunities,
but
only
if
somebody
advocates
for
it
in
addition
to
Maha
so
I
want
to
thank
you
all
and
Council
Louisiana.
You
were
there
way
before
you're,
even
a
counselor
on
this
project,
but
I
just
used
that
one
I
know
it
the
best.
But
there's
it's
all
over
the
city
that
the
city
is
rezoning
for
development
and
what
are
we
Zoning
for
not
homeownership
housing?
In
most
cases,.
K
Yeah
and
I
do
agree
with
that.
In
every
time
the
developer
comes
into
the
district.
I
think
that,
as
a
district
council,
we
we
do
have
that
advocacy
power
to
push
the
developer
to
home
ownership
models,
but
we
all
often
get
the
push
back
that
it's
not
feasible,
but
we
have
to
continue
to
Advocate
for
a
model
that
is
feasible
and
I
I
guess.
My
last
question
is
I
I.
Do
like
the
idea
of
this
collaboration
between
mortgage
company
and
the
bank
collaboration,
but
are
no
mortgage
companies.
K
H
Yeah
and-
and
it's
to
the
reason
Hillary
said
that
mortgage
companies,
typically
that
are
non-depositories,
are
not
structured
to
hold
mortgages
and
these
loans,
because
they're
slightly
below
market
rate
there's
a
30
basis.
Point
discount
are
not
easily
sold
on
the
secondary
markets,
because
that
that
discount
has
to
be
absorbed
at
time
of
sale
and
that's
a
financial
transaction.
Most
companies
are
unwilling
to
to
make.
H
So
that's
the
idea
behind
a
local,
secondary
Market
would
be
to
figure
out
as
the
as
the
loan
gets
transferred
from
say,
a
mortgage
company
to
a
to
an
investor
whether
that
investor
be
a
thing
or
a
another
fund
figuring
out.
How
that
discount
is
shared.
I
think
would
be
a
key
part
of
solving
that
problem.
H
K
M
M
Just
thinking
about
what
other
cities
I
know,
Boston
is
doing
great
work
on
this
issue,
but
are
there
other
cities
across
the
country
that
are
doing
that?
Have
any
other
programs
similar
to
Boston
or
even
more
expensive
or
more
in
Greater
detail
than
Boston
more
effective
than
Boston
that
we
can
use
some
of
those
examples
to
some
of
those
programs
to
help
us
in
this
crisis?.
H
H
H
You
know
I
think
over
the
course
of
my
career
Massachusetts
used
to
be
regarded
as
a
housing
leader
as
a
state
or
not
so
much
anymore,
but
at
the
city
level,
I
think
with
people
like
Sheila
and
Karen
and
and
the
team
at
the
office.
Housing
I
think
we
on
this
issue,
specifically,
which
is
more
my
expertise.
We've
maintained
that
leadership
role
on
the
country.
That's
not
to
say,
there's
not
you
know,
Innovative
programs,
you
know
and
I
know.
There's
a
reparations.
H
M
A
H
Yeah,
the
overarching
stat
is
the
average
income
of
a
successful
home
buyer
in
the
city
of
Boston,
who
got
a
mortgage
in
2021
was
254
000..
That's
all
that's
all
buyers,
all
Races,
so
what
I
have
by
race
is
broken
out
a
little
bit.
So
if
you
went
to
a
bank
in
a
credit
union-
and
you
got
a
mortgage-
and
you
were
black-
the
average
income
of
those
borrowers
was
127.
H
White
283.
in
Asian
225.,
so
that's
that's
just
one
snippet
of
it,
but
those
are
the
average
income
and
I
think
you
know,
I
don't
have
the
numbers,
but
you
would.
You
would
I
think
it'd
be
a
reasonable
assumption
to
make
that
the
one
in
one
plus
program
have
had
an
impact
on
that
black
number
being
as
low
I
hate
to
use.
That
word,
because
127
is
a
is
a
pretty
good
income,
127
000,
but
but
I
think
that's
where
you're
seeing
the
impact
of
those
affordable
mortgage
programs.
H
M
M
M
E
So
part
of
the
incentive
is
kind
of
a
carrot:
stick,
it's
the
community
reinvestment
act
and
so
Banks
and
Credit
Unions
that
have
branches
in
in
the
state
have
to
serve
the
credit
needs
of
everyone
in
their
communities.
And
so
there
are
city
and
state
assistance
for
those
buyers
and
it's
a
partnership
with
the
lender.
It
says
lender.
If
you
do
a
b
and
c
government
will
do
d,
e
and
f.
F
H
I
would
just
insert
too.
This
is
an
opportunity.
Hillary
mentioned
the
community
reinvestment
act,
so
we
may
be
weeks
days
weeks
or
months
away,
but
for
the
First
Reform
from
the
Federal
Government
Federal
Regulators
of
the
community
reinvestment
act
in
25
years,
and
that
reform
has
going
to
have
a
number
of
potential
changes
to
the
CRA.
But
I
think
one
of
the
most
significant
is
a
change
in
how
A
banks,
what
they
call
assessment
area
is
defined
and
back
in
the
day
1977,
when
the
community
reinvestment
Act
was
was
written.
Banks.
H
H
We
know
that's
not
how
modern
Finance
works
anymore
in
modern
banking
and
so
for
the
first
time
assessment
areas
are
going
to
be
measured.
We
think
where
no
one
has
seen
the
final
regs,
but
based
on
the
preliminary
regs,
we
think
the
federal
regular
is
going
to
have
a
bricks
and
mortar
trigger
for
for
branches
for
assessment
areas,
but
also
a
lending
trigger.
So
Wells
Fargo
is
a
good
example.
H
Wells
Fargo
is
one
of
the
top
10
lenders
in
the
city
of
Boston,
but
has
no
CRA
responsibilities
in
the
city
of
Boston
because,
as
you
know,
counselor
has
no
branches
here,
deposit
taking
branches
so
but
because
of
their
lending
under
the
new
CRA
reform
regs.
We
anticipate
that
a
Wells,
Fargo
and
many
others
might
have
new
CRA
requirements
for
the
city
of
Boston
and
that's
potentially
new
partner
for
the
city
for
Community
organizations
to
to
engage
with
so
that
stay
tuned.
M
M
M
So
I
asked
that
question
what
would
a
black
owned
Banks
doing
on
this
crisis
and
don't
they
have
a
special
obligation
to
to
to
keep
that
mortgage
at
the
bank
and
not
not
sell
a
transfer
to
sell
off
that
mortgage
to
another
bank?
Because
from
my
my
experience
owning
a
home,
it
just
seems
like
that
mortgage
that
that
your
back
is
always
trying
to
sell
the
mortgage
to
a
different
group.
H
Just
on
there's
only
one
black
owned
bank
in
the
state
that
I'm
aware
of
one
United.
They
are
not
a
significant
mortgage
lender,
but
at
all
they're
they're.
They
just
they're
more
into
the
credit
card,
they're
pretty
much
a
big
credit
card
bank,
but
they're,
not
a
mortgage
lending
vehicle
for
the
most
part.
They
may
do
a
few,
a
handful
of
mortgages,
but
but
they
have
not
been
a
significant
mortgage
player
in
the
city.
You.
H
There's
no
black
owned
Banks,
that's
the
only
black
owned
bank,
I'm
more
of
in
the
state,
there's
very
few
black
owned
banks
in
the
country,
they're,
just
it's
a
it's
a
you
know
it's
a
long
story,
but
it's
discrimination
and
institutional
racism
and
access
to
Capital
and
there's
I,
don't
know
the
exact
number
of
black
owned
Banks.
Maybe
somebody
in
the
panel
does
in
the
country,
but
there's
very,
very
few
well.
Well,
maybe.
M
Maybe
if
I,
if
I,
don't
use
the
term
black
owned,
Banks
but
say
innate
a
long
time,
Neighborhood
Bank
in
a
neighborhood
that
has
a
commitment
to
the
community
that
has
equipment
to
the
Roxbury
Community,
the
digestive
Community,
it's
the
Vatican,
Community
I,
don't
know
if
there
was
those
such
banks
around
anymore,
but
but
I
guess
my
question:
is
they
at
least
have
some
type
of
commitment
to
the
residents
in
that
neighborhood,
you
would
think
is.
Is
that
the
case.
H
H
But
they're
in
a
couple
of
neighborhoods
in
the
city
and
there
are
tiny
institution,
but
the
Cooperative
Bank
is
I.
Believe
Hillary.
Correct
me
is
part
of
OnePlus
Boston,
so
yeah
I
think
bank's
big
and
small,
have
CRA
obligations
and
that's
that's
to
the
city
as
a
whole
to
the
neighborhoods
they
operate
in
when
Community
reinvestment
act
works.
Well.
That
means
they're
investing
in
their
neighborhood
and
they're,
hopefully
earning
an
outstanding
rating.
It's
one
of
the
reasons.
I
think
you
saw
the
concern
with
Silicon
Valley
Bank
and
failure.
H
H
How
did
they
earn
that
in
part,
because
they
were
an
active
mortgage
lender
in
the
one
program
and
also
did
other
types
of
Community
Development
lending
as
well,
but
those
are
the
pieces
to
earn.
Hopefully,
we
would
like
all
banks
to
Aspire
to
earn
an
outstanding,
Community
reinvestment
rating,
because
that
means
they're
investing
in
their
neighborhood,
as,
as
you
said,.
M
Thank
you
one,
one.
One
final
comment:
that
goes
not
not
really
a
question,
but
a
comment
from
from
my
experience.
I
have
seen
various
credit
unions
in
Boston
have
a
positive
impact
in
particular
neighborhoods
and
engagement
in
neighborhoods
does.
Does
that
mean
that
they
are
committed
to
providing
mortgages
to
qualified.
E
Some
Community
Banks
offer
the
best
products
and
are
very
engaged
in
lending.
Some
of
them
are
not
so
I,
don't
always
see
a
correlation
between
the
scale
of
the
bank
and
the
investment
in
the
community.
We've
also
lost
a
number
of
those
Community,
Banks,
I'm
sure
you're
familiar
with
Mount
Washington
yep,
you
know,
went
up
up
the
chain.
E
Yeah,
that's
happened
in
a
number
of
cases:
Hyde
Park,
Savings,
Bank,
the
same
way
in
maha's
experience,
the
local
and
the
the
state
banks
are
significantly
easier
to
deal
with
I
think
to
your
point,
as
opposed
to
the
Citibanks,
the
Bank
of
Americas,
because
they
cannot
find
Boston
on
a
map.
You
know
when
we
started
this
and
Mr
Terrell
will
remember
all
the
bank
presidents
were
in
downtown
Boston.
F
E
Credit
Unions,
we
have
one
credit
union
that
shall
remain
nameless,
that
markets
itself
incredibly
as
an
affordable
place
to
go
and
will
treat
you
much
better
than
anyone
else
and
they
have
refused
to
do
the
most
affordable
products.
We
have
other
credit
unions
that
are
participating
and
doing
really
well
so
I
don't
see
a
correlation
there
either.
H
H
M
You
Tom
thank
you
to
the
piano
and
the
my
my
last
point.
It's
is
what
was
always
important
to
me
for
potential.
Black
owners
of
homes
is
especially
especially
city
workers,
you're
working
so
hard
for
the
the
residents
of
Boston.
You
might
make
fifty
thousand
dollars
a
year.
You
might
make
sixty
or
seventy
thousand
dollars
a
year
working
for
the
public
works
or
for
the
transportation
department.
M
But
that's
that's
a
that's
a
salary
that
almost
precludes
you
from
getting
a
getting
buying
a
home,
but
you
you're
working
50
hours
a
week,
you're
involved
in
the
community.
You
you're
you're
involved
in
literally,
if
you're
involved
in
coaching
you're
involved
in
mentoring,
you're
providing
a
great
service
to
the
residents
of
the
city.
M
You
know
there
has
to
be
a
place
in
Boston
for
that
worker
and
there
has
to
be
a
place
without
work
or
to
be
able
to
access
alone
so
that
that
person
can
buy
a
buy
a
small
house
in
Boston
I.
Don't
think
I,
don't
think
we're
all
looking
for
large
houses,
but
just
just
so
we're
just
so
the
person
can
make
the
American
dream
of
owning
a
home.
No
one
wants
to
get
rich,
but
if
they
want
to
support
their
family,
but
are
we
targeting
anything
and
I
know
we
are,
but
are
we?
A
Thanks,
thank
you,
President,
John
and
I.
Think
that's
a
well
taken
question
and
I
think
the
comments
that
Hillary
has
been
making
regarding
the
OnePlus
Boston
mortgage
program,
the
OnePlus,
plus
that
we
continue
to
lean
in
and
support
that,
because
that
increases
the
purchasing
power
of
that
person,
who's,
making
fifty
thousand
sixty
thousand
and
working
and
struggling
for
the
city.
A
But
we
as
a
city
council,
have
a
responsibility
to
support
the
construction
in
the
building
of
more
affordable
home
ownership
opportunities
so
that
people
at
those
income
levels
are
able
to
buy
and-
and
you
asked
a
question
that
I
think
and
I'm
just
trying
to
move
us
along
because
the
Administration
has
been
here
from
the
very
beginning
and
I
want
to
thank
you,
Bob
and
Karen
for
being
here
and
listening.
You
know.
Sometimes
Administration
goes
first,
sometimes
if
the
panelists
go
first,
but
I
think
this
has
been
incredible.
A
Hopefully,
for
you
to
to
hear
about
the
work
that
Advocates
have
been
doing
in
the
research
that
they've
been
elevating.
President
Flynn,
you
asked
about
black
owned
Banks
back
in
between
1888
and
1934.
There
were
134
black
own
Banks
across
the
country
and
that
number
has
dwindled
to
somewhere
in
the
20s
between
20
and
23,
according
to
the
Federal
Deposit
Insurance
Corporation.
A
So
there
are
a
few
I
bank
with
one
United
Bank,
that's
where
my
business
as
a
lawyer
where
it
was
and
they
do
offer
Residential
Mortgage,
but
it's
just
that's
not
their
main
Breadwinner.
And
so
we
could
talk
about
what
we
can
do
here
on
the
city
council
in
the
city
to
encourage
and
Foster
more
black
Banks
being
located
here
in
Boston.
How
do
we
you
know?
There's
banks
have
been
buying
up
Banks,
there's
a
concentration
of
wealth
and
a
few
Banks,
but
we
could
talk
about
public
Banks.
We
can
talk
about.
A
A
I
asked
a
lot
of
questions
as
we
went
just
a
few
targeted
questions
to
Jim
and
Whit
to
both
Jim
and
to
Whitney.
If
you
know
you
say
gold,
the
gold
standard
is
is
pair
testing.
Are
there
cities
that
are
doing
what
we
want
to
do
here
in
Boston?
Do
you
know
of
anywhere?
That's
that
has
a
model
that
we
should
be
looking
at.
J
This
is
a
good
example
to
be
able
to
look
at
sort
of
the
methodology
that
was
used
within
that
testing
and
and
certainly
how
they
are
sort
of
broadening
that
out
into
other
communities
as
well,
which
of
course,
sort
of
our
underway
and
and
have
some
disclosures
around,
but
but
I
think
that
that
model
in
Baltimore
was
a
good
example
that
that
National
Organization
is
doing
that.
We
should
be
looking
to
and
into
earlier
Comics
around
the
National
Fair
Housing
Alliance.
A
A
A
And
then
I
have
one
last
question
regarding:
if
we
know
whether
black
bostonians
are
they
just,
why
aren't
they
accessing
the
home
loan
Market
in
the
same
proportion
as
another
she's
like
Brockton
like
is
there?
Is
there
something
else
that's
happening
between
the
two
cities?
That's
making
Brockton
a
space
other
than
like
cost,
a
much
more
like
an
easier
place
for
black
bostonians,
or
is
it
just.
G
Yeah
I
think
it
goes
forward
into
the
question
of
the
councilman
before
it's
about
inventory
too
and
types
of
houses
that
people
you
know
want
to
access
like
if
you
own
a
big
house
like
a
two
three
bedroom
with
a
backyards,
there's
a
lot
of
like
ranch
homes
that
are
very
affordable
in
Brockton.
They
were
like
built
in
the
60s
and
the
70s
there,
but
I
also
just
want
to
bring
in
in
this
discussion.
G
You
know
the
46
of
all
black
households
in
Massachusetts
are
headed
by
someone
who
immigrated
to
this
country
right,
so
sort
of
the
dimension
of
immigration
and
Brockton
emerging,
not
just
as
a
black
majority
City,
but
also
like
you
know
the
Cape
Verdean
diaspora,
I,
like
you
know
it
has
the
largest
skateboarding
diaspora
in
the
world
living
in
Brockton.
So
there's
also
something
unique
about
the
attraction
of
living
with.
G
A
G
J
Think
it's
added
to
that
conversation
too,
about
how
you
know:
business
opportunities
for
people
of
color,
color
and
Brockton
those
sort
of
things
but
I
think
the
other
question.
We
have
to
be
asking
ourselves
about
why
people
are
moving
to
certain
parts
of
the
state
is
also
this
idea
about
welcoming
communities
right
and
what
does
it
mean
to
Foster,
open
and
welcoming
community
so
open,
not
just
about.
F
J
Housing,
Supply
and
availability,
that
is
there,
the
different
type,
the
tenure
Etc
to
to
your
point,
about
choice
right,
but
also
about
what
does
it
mean
to
move
into
a
community
to
your
point
about
Infinity
right,
but
also
about
how
how
am
I
treated
when
I
live
there?
How
do
my
kids,
what
are
their
experiences
when
they
go
to
school?
Go
to
the
park
right?
What
does
it
mean
when
I
jog
down
the
street
so
also
there's
this
sense
around
Community
right?
J
Is
there
a
June
teeth
event
right,
so
these
sort
of
things
that
people
think
about
and
to
the
point
earlier
about
the
councilwoman
about
around
sort
of
this
trust
building
right,
you
hear
that
this
is
the
place
where
you
go,
and
so
you
hear
this
this
idea
that
this
is
a
welcoming
Community
for
us
right
and
so
there's
this
buy-in
to
that.
But
what
how?
How
are
other
communities
and
what
are
their
responsibility
around
making
sure
that
you're
fostering
a
welcoming
community
in
the
100
ways
that
that's
defined.
A
Thank
you,
Winnie
I
think
that's
an
excellent
point
and
I
think
that
in
our
work
to
try
to
build
a
more
inclusive,
Boston
and
welcome
in
Boston,
that's
important,
I
I,
just
think
about
the
it's
a
it's.
A
fine
line
between
feeling,
welcoming
and
steering
people
to
Brockton
instead
of
Braintree
right,
like
I,
think
those
are
the
things
that
I
yeah
quote.
Brockton
has
the
big
like
this
other
city
has
the
businesses
it
has
the
culture,
but
how
much
of
that
to
the
fair
housing
implications
to
but
I
I
really
I.
A
Ing,
thank
you
you
are.
This
has
been
really
a
terrific
conversation
and
I.
Think
you
it's
going
to
help
inform
the
work
we
do
we're
entering
budget
season
and
thinking
about
how
we
uplift
and
support
some
of
the
work
that
our
next
panel,
which
is
Administration,
is
doing
and
is
incredibly
important.
So
thank
you.
You
are
free
to
stay.
A
I
hope
that
you
do
I
hope
that
you
continue
to
partner
with
us
and
and
Feed
Us
ideas
and
policy
papers
and
challenge
us
to
be
accountable
to
our
residents,
who
are
facing
discrimination
in
the
lending
and
Appraisal
markets
who
are
getting
pushed
out
of
our
city.
We
have
an
obligation
to
create
space
for
them
to
allow
them
to
return
to
be
creating
opportunities
for
them
to
be
able
to
buy
homes
here
in
the
city
and
to
be
doing
the
work
of
affirmatively
furthering
fair
housing.
A
A
A
A
Thank
you
for
being
here
for
being
Avid
listeners
to
this
conversation
for
the
work
that
you
do
on
behalf
of
the
city
of
Boston
and
for
your
commitment
to
creating
a
more
a
city
where
we
can
house
our
black
and
brown
residents
and
do
the
work
hard
work
that
it's
going
to
take
to
get
us
there.
So
I'm
just
going
to
turn
it
over
to
you,
Karen
and
Bob,
for
opening
remarks,
and
then
we'll
turn
over
to
my
colleagues
for
questions.
Okay,.
L
Great
perfect.
Well,
first
of
all,
thank
you.
Thank
you
to
the
panel.
It
was
very
well
worth
it.
It
was
not
wasted
time.
I
think
this
is
a
very
important
topic
not
only
for
for
us
as
a
city,
but
also
us
as
a
community
as
I'm.
Also
a
resident
of
a
Boston
right
and
I
came
to
this
country
in
1992
and
I
faced
a
lot
of
the
barriers
for
home
ownership,
and
this
is
where
my
passion
is
really.
L
This
is
really
helping
city
of
Boston
race
at
residence
to
to
go
over
those
barriers
right
and
increase
our
community
for
low-income
families
and
home
ownership.
So,
but
first
of
all,
I
really
want
to
acknowledge
you
and
thank
you
so
much
for
hosting
and
sponsoring
this.
This
meeting
I
think
it's
really
it's
really
important
for
us
and
for
the
city
of
Boston,
so
councilor
Lejean,
Consular,
Fernandez,
Anderson,
Consular,
Bach,
Arroyo,
frieden,
Coletta,
Flaherty,
Lara,
Mejia,
Murphy
oral
and
president
Council
Flynn.
Thank
you
so
much
for
this
hearing
really
appreciate
it.
So
I
am
Karen.
L
L
Although
the
Boston
Home
Center
hasn't
received
direct
complaints
regarding
Fair
lending
and
Appraisal
discrimination
practices,
we
acknowledge
that
these
practices
of
discrimination
mycilla
core
due
to
the
unconscious
biases
or
intentional
actions
by
lenders
or
appraisers,
which
can
be
significant
negative
impacts
to
our
constituents
and
our
communities.
Data
across
the
country
still
shows
significant
racial
homeownership
haps
for
by
book
households.
L
The
Boston
Home
Center
operates
several
programs
with
the
goal
of
increasing
homeownership
rates
in
the
city
of
Boston
for
low
and
moderate
income,
households
and
houses
of
color.
Our
home
ownership
programs
identified
into
three
categories:
financial
assistance
programs,
technical
assistance,
mayor's
office
of
housing,
affordable,
affordable
housing,
Lottery
and
assistant
buyers
with
affordable
units,
including
resales
education,
counseling
services
for
first-time
home
buyers
in
Boston
homeowners.
L
As
part
of
our
efforts,
Boston
Home
Center
to
take
a
closer
look
at
loan
approvals,
denials
and
interest
rates
to
detect
any
disparities.
We
currently
work
with
a
diverse
group
of
lenders
currently
17
lenders,
which
12
have
become
one
plus
Boston.
We
did
it
started
with
four
lenders,
and
now
we
are
up
to
12,
which
is
a
great
number,
and
we
continue
to
engage
lenders
to
become
part
of
this.
L
The
OnePlus
Boston
one
important
commitment
that
we
have
in
the
Boston
Home
Center
is
to
always
work
with
our
learning
learning,
Partners,
making
sure
for
Lending
practices
are
being
performed
on
behalf
of
our
constituents.
Our
data
shows
that
from
July
1st
2020
throughout
this
March
17
2023,
we
have
assisted
391,
first-time
home
buyers.
200
were
use,
the
one
plus
298
use,
the
one
plus
Boston
in
98
were
assisted
with
the
traditional
Financial
financial
assistance
of
those
391
256
were
by
Park
houses
and
the
and
from
those
256
156
were
at
black
houses.
L
In
our
constant
work
with
lenders,
we
ask
for
transparency
in
The,
Lending
and
Appraisal
process.
We
asked
lenders
for
diversity
in
the
workforce
and
we
as
lenders
to
regularly
monitor
their
lending
practices,
to
identify
any
potential
discriminatory
practices
when
working
with
buyers
in
both
the
financial
assistance
program
and
our
affordable
housing
sales
were
review
buyers
mortgage
products
to
ensure
the
buyers
are
in
an
affordable,
sustainable
mortgage
product.
L
On
the
home
buyers
side,
our
classes
are
designed
to
educate,
first-time
home
buyers
about
the
home
buying
process
and
provide
them
with
education
and
guidance
about
first-time
home,
buying
mortgage
products
and
raise
awareness
of
her
lending
practices.
So
they
are
informed
and
knowledgeable
about
how
to
avoid
discrimination.
L
Our
goal
is
to
provide
these
first-time
home
buyers,
with
the
knowledge
and
confidence
to
get
the
most
affordable
and
sustainable
mortgage
and
to
make
inform
and
to
make
informed
decisions
about
mortgage
products
and
the
lender
they
might
choose
to
work
with,
but
unfortunately,
there
is
still
so
much
that
we
have
to
do
to
come
back
discrimination
and
lending
and
appraisals
and
promote
fair
and
Equitable
access
to
Credit
in
housing
for
all
members
of
our
community.
The
mission
of
the
Boston
Home
Center
is
to
help
and
support
both
residents
to
become
and
remain
successful.
F
N
N
N
The
studies
that
have
been
cited
today
are
very
important.
They
show
a
long
and
lengthy
historical
trend
line
of
lending
discrimination,
but
I
think
the
issue
that
confronts
this
committee
today
is:
what
can
the
city
of
Boston
do
to
address
this
problem
head
on
and
I
have
some
recommendations,
because
the
city
of
Boston,
as
you
well
know,
is
not
a
bank
regulator,
but
we
do
have
some
tools
that
I
think
we
should
use
and
use
more
aggressively.
N
First
of
all,
the
fair
housing
commission
itself,
we
are
what
is
called
substantially
equivalent
to
HUD
now.
What
does
that
mean?
It
means
that
any
person
that
files
a
fair
housing
complaint
with
our
commission,
whether
it's
over
rentals
sales
financing
insurance,
we
can
provide
them
the
same
remedies
and
the
same
protections
as
the
federal
government
as
hot,
whether
it's
a
complaint
that
was
generated
by
an
individual,
a
complaint
that
came
to
us
by
way
of
testing.
N
I
think
it's
excellent
and
I
want
to
agree
with.
All
of
the
various
ideas
and
reforms
that
were
expressed
by
the
previous
channel,
a
panel
I
think
they
laid
out
an
excellent
foundation
for
attacking
this
problem,
but
I
also
think
we
have
to
hold
people
who
break
the
law
in
discriminating
against
our
residents
accountable
for
that
to
the
full
extent
of
the
law.
N
N
N
N
N
N
But
what,
if
we
were
to
say
to
any
City
depository
that
has
a
condition
of
being
a
depository
you
have
to
participate
in
that
program.
We
should
be
using
The
Leverage.
We
have.
If
a
bank
wants
to
be
a
city
deposit,
we
should
use
that
leverage
to
get
some
of
the
reforms
we
want
in
the
banking
industry.
N
We
take
a
risk
by
putting
money
in
those
institutions,
as
we
have
recently
seen
with
the
Silicon
Valley
situation
and
with
the
banking
collapse
in
2008.
We
as
consumers
take
a
risk
putting
money
in
their
Banks,
but
then
they
turn
around
and
say
to
the
very
same
people
who
have
put
money
into
those
institutions,
we're
not
willing
to
take
a
risk.
On
You
by
lending
to
you.
N
Why
should
we
continue
to
put
to
take
a
risk
in
depositing
in
their
Banks
if
they're
not
willing
to
lend
to
us?
What
does
that
suggest
that
we
should
do
so?
Clearly,
we
need
to
be
thinking
about
future
Alternatives,
there's
legislation
pending
in
the
state
legislature.
Right
now
it's
been
refiled
to
create
a
Massachusetts
State
Bank.
N
There's
also
a
state
link
deposit
law,
the
same
discussion
that
we're
having
here
today
about
our
link
deposit
legislation.
Perhaps
we
need
to
have
with
the
state
where
does?
Where
is
the
state,
putting
its
money
and
under
what
terms
and
conditions
and
with
what?
What
results
is
also
as
a
part
of
our
Division
of
Banks,
a
little-known
entity
referred
to
as
mortgage
review
boards,
where
people
can
appeal
a
decision?
That's
been
made
to
deny
them
a
mortgage.
How
many
of
our
residents
know
about
mortgage
review
boards?
N
Last
but
not
least,
Madam
chair,
I
have
a
recommendation
specifically
for
the
committee,
oh
before
I.
Do
that
the
municipal,
Banking
and
Community
reinvestment
commission,
which
is
created
by
this
linked
deposit
law,
really
I,
haven't
seen
any
evidence
that
they
are
meeting
or
that
they
have
been
called
together.
As
a
group
I.
A
N
N
What's
going
to
be
taking
place
with
these
new
regs
that
are
coming
out
around
CRA?
And
what
is
their
intention
for
enforcement
and
perhaps
even
improvements
to
the
Home
Mortgage
disclosure
act.
So
we
can
get
even
better
data
in
closing.
I
really
suggested
this
Council
take
the
leadership
on
this
issue
and
really
push
and
make
it
a
point
to
make
lending
discrimination
and
all
of
its
various
forms
absolutely
illegal
in
this
city,
and
then
we
take
all
measures
necessary
to
enforce
all
of
our
civil
rights
and
fair
housing
laws
with
regard
to
lending
discrimination.
A
You
director,
Terrell
I,
appreciate
your
testimony.
I
mean
you
were
giving
instructions
on
how
to
proceed.
I'm
like
okay,
you
should
get
one
of
these
city
council
chairs,
so
I
appreciate
you
I
I,
believe
I
said
at
the
beginning.
This
is
by
no
means
the
last
hearing
that
we're
going
to
have
on
this.
This
is
going
to
remain
in
committee
and
we
will
continue
the
conversation.
A
I
did
invite
the
Federal
Reserve
here,
but,
as
I
stated
there
for
their
own
compliance
rules
that
are
unable
to
make
today's
hearing
we
will.
We
will
get
them
at
another
hearing
to
be
part
of
this
conversation,
I
and
I
and
I
and
I.
Take
all
of
your
points
to
and
to
make
this
a
conversation
that
includes
regulators
and
the
practitioners,
I
also
invited
Banks,
and
they
also
were
not
able
to
make
it
today.
C
C
C
We
need
people
to
know
more
about
so
I
wondered
if
you
could
speak
a
little
bit
to
from
your
office's
perspective,
sort
of
what,
besides,
obviously
speaking,
to
us
about
it
here.
Like
what
you
guys
are
doing
to
kind
of
get
the
word
out
and
make
sure
that
people
know
and
make
the
commission
able
to
be
that
more,
like
kind
of
effective,
substantial
equivalent
to
HUD.
N
So
I
have
been
knee-deep
in
that
I
will
be
visiting
this
chamber
again
after
the
second
Wednesday
in
April,
at
some
point
to
plead
my
case,
but
one
of
the
things
I
made
clear
to
the
administration
before
I
joined
I
said.
The
fair
housing
commission
should
have
must
have
two
very
important
things
in
order
to
carry
out
its
mission,
one
we
need
our
own
in-house
testing
program,
so
I
was
really
glad
to
hear
people
from
the
previous
panel
raise
up
testing
and
fair
housing
testing.
N
As
a
former
director
of
a
FIP
agency,
we
had
our
own
testing
program.
It
was
in
fact
Whitney
Demetrius
was
our
director
of
testing
and
she
personally
handled
over
a
thousand
match
pair
tests.
While
she
was
working
at
our
our
agency
and
I
said.
We
need
that
because
the
fair
housing
commission,
whether
we're
looking
at
a
rental
situation,
sales
or
a
bank
or
Finance
situation,
we're
working
with
circumstantial
evidence.
N
What
we
need
is
more
direct
evidence
which
would
make
our
investigations
more
robust
and
drill
down
into
the
real
details
of
a
transaction
and
the
best
way
to
get
that
is
through
fair
housing
testing,
and
there
is
a
Supreme
Court
case
that
was
held.
You
know
decided
many
years
ago.
That
said
evidence
generated
by
testing
is
admissible
in
a
court
of
law,
so
we
have
an
actual
constitutional
ruling
from
the
Supreme
Court
in
that
regard,
so
hopefully
through
the
budgetary
process.
N
If
it
turns
out
the
way
I'd
like
we
will
have
our
own
in-house
testing
program
for
all
types
of
fair
housing
issues,
and
one
of
the
things
about
testing
is
obviously
we
test
for
all
protected
class
issues.
So
we
need
all
sorts
of
people.
We
need
the
most
diverse
group
of
folks
ever
assembled
because
we're
going
to
be
testing
for
everything,
all
kinds
of
discrimination
and
secondly,
I
have
requested
and
I
know.
This
is
somewhat
controversial
and
I'm
gearing
up
for
the
debate
on
this.
The
commission
needs
its
own
general
counsel.
N
It
needs
its
own
in-house
counsel
so
that
we
can
move
quickly
and
swiftly
on
Fair
Housing
cases
and,
if
need
be,
go
directly
into
court
and
litigate
I
have
the
utmost
respectful,
Corporation
Council
but
oftentimes.
We
we
need
to
move
very,
very
quickly
for
subpoena's
temporary
restraining
orders.
Any
number
of
things
and
I
realize
Corporation
Council
is
trying
to
deal
with
the
requests
from
54
City
departments,
and
it
would
be,
it
would
be
most
helpful
to
our
operation
and
I've
already
made
this
request
of
the
administration
through
the
budgetary
process.
C
That's
great
and
I'm
so
glad
to
hear
all
of
that,
and
especially
about
sort
of
the
push
for
in-house
fair
housing
testing.
You
know
the
council
over
the
last
few
years
has
supported
substantial
funds
to
the
to
your
office.
I
mean
before
you
were
here
in
order
to
fund
testing,
but
obviously
we've
been
doing
that
with
outside
partners
and
there's
actually
a
good
if
you
ever
have
a
lonely
night.
C
We've
had
a
fantastic
partner
in
Suffolk
for
the
city
to
really
like
do
what
we
need
to
do
like
consistently
and
also
you
know,
test
all
those
different
categories,
and
maybe
that
means
that
for
some
period,
you're
focusing
on
one
category
and
then
you're
flipping
and
what
you
know
like
we,
we
kind
of
need.
It
can't
be
this
one-off
thing
where
we're
funding
like
external
rfps
kind
of
moments
of
everyone
noticing
the
problem
like
it
has
to
be
a
kind
of
consistent
thing,
so
really
glad
to
hear
you
chasing
that
and
obviously
yeah
all
categories.
C
I
mean
one
of
the
things
that
I
recall
in
the
data
from
a
year
or
two
ago
was
like
there's.
You
know,
there's
enormous
discrimination
against
particularly
transgender
folks,
but
the
lgbtq
community
as
well
in
housing,
and
so
you
know,
there's
a
lot
of
different
protected
classes
and,
as
we
all
know,
families
as
well,
especially
with
the
older
housing
stock
and
everybody
not
wanting
to
do
lead
abatement
in
Boston
so
and.
N
N
N
It's
a
lot
a
little
bit
different
from
the
methodology
we
use
around
rental
housing,
but
it
can
be
done.
It
was
just
done
recently
by
the
national
Community
reinvestment
Coalition
in
Baltimore.
That's
how
they
brought
two
cases
to
HUD
around
appraisals
is
that
they
put
together
a
testing
regime
specifically
to
go
after
appraisals
around
the
protected
class
of
race
and
those
two
cases
are
now
pending
at
HUD
and
we're
anxious
to
see
what
kind
of
administrative
law
comes
out
of
that.
C
I
I
want
to
let
my
colleague
the
chair
get
back
to
her
questions
so
I'll
just
say:
I
wanna,
I,
wanna
Echo.
Your
view
on
the
like
to
link
deposits.
Municipal
banking
commission
I
think
it's
well
past
time
to
kind
of
revive
and
strengthen
that,
and
also
thank
because
they're
still
here,
Tom
Callahan
and
Maha
have
been
banging
that
drum
for
a
while.
Now.
C
C
If
there's
any
more
that
you
can
say
about
kind
of
what
you're
seeing
firsthand
in
terms
of
like
what
feels
like
the
most
frustrating
aspect
of
all
this
for
our
first
time,
home
buyers,
our
first
generation
home
buyers
and
like
what
what's
the
next
piece
of
the
puzzle
for
you.
That
would
be
helpful.
L
L
L
We
had
to
spend
our
bodies
our
stuff,
because
of
so
many
pre-approvals
we're
getting
for
home
purchases,
but
it
doesn't
matter
how
much
we
have
an
assistance
when
there
is
really
no
enough
inventory
or
affordability
for
our
constituents,
and
that's
really
one
of
the
things
that
we're
seeing
that
is
becoming
a
barrier
and
it's
pushing
Boston.
It's
pushing
residents
to
be
out
of
Boston,
so
we
do
need
more
inventory
or
affordable
inventory,
our
average
home
price
from
buyers
that
we
have
served
it's
about
398
thousand
dollars.
L
So
it
tells
you
that
hearing
Tom's
numbers
on
the
average
home
purchase
it's
a
big
gap
and
it's
and
it
rates
concerns
for
our
community
because
our
average
low
to
moderate
income
families
are
between
74
to
you
know
under
a
hundred
thousand
dollars
so
and
I'm
also
hearing
his
numbers,
and
it
is
concerning
because
it
doesn't
matter
all
the
programs
that
we
have.
We
are
facing
for
something
bigger,
that
it's
not
affordable
in
Boston
and
that's
what
we're
seeing.
C
You
know
we
have
asset
limits
on
folks
who
qualify
for
our
first
time,
home
buyer
programs
and
such
and-
and
it
makes
sense
because
we're
trying
to
build
wealth
amongst
folks
who
don't
have
wealth
I
think
we
have
a
higher
one
if
you're
like
a
senior,
because
we
know
that
seniors
have
to
save
for
their
medical
like
needs
and
all
of
that,
but
I
think
it's
kind
of
like
one
or
the
other
and
I
guess.
One
question
that
I
have
again
is
probably
like
a
comeback
data
question.
C
But
just
when
was
the
last
time
we
looked
at
those
numbers
and
are
we
thinking
about
like
what
I
don't
want?
Is
that
the
homeowners
who
we
could
support,
who
are
in
the
income
bands
we're
trying
to
support
who
are
kind
of
on
the
cusp
of
being
able
to
afford
the
slightly
more
expensive
houses,
have
managed
to
receive
a
little
bit
more
than
75
000
and
then
I,
don't
think,
there's
a
ton
of
people
in
this
box.
C
But
it's
awkward
if
there
are
people
in
that
box
and
we're
saying
oh
now
you're
out,
but
actually
it's
that
ability
to
put
some
larger
down
payment
down.
That
would
help
them
to
get
the
houses.
So
I've
just
been
thinking
about
this
because,
like
some
folks
were
talking
about,
I
mean
the
waving
contingencies
and
cash
offers
on
the
scale
of
down
payments
that
people
are
putting
in
the
private.
C
L
It
is
interesting
because
that
was
a
conversation
that
we
were
having
yesterday
with
my
team
Haru
and
that's
something
that
we're
taking
back
to
MHP,
of
course,
to
revision
of
that
acid
test
and
from
the
city
of
Boston
perspective.
We
don't
really
look
one
in
ones
in
cases
where,
if
you
are
over
assets
for
some
reason
we
look
at
your
case.
So
it's
like,
we
don't
really
say.
L
A
You
thank
you
councilor
Brock,
for
your
questions
and
for
your
participation.
There's
a
two
o'clock
hearing,
so
I'm
just
and
I
want
to
just
thank
city
council
staff,
Central
staff
for
for
just
their
diligence
and
and
always
being
present
to
make
sure
this
goes
along.
Two
really
short
questions:
Dr
Terrell
support,
bringing
testing
in-house
I
think
that
is
the
way
to
go.
How
many
full-time
employees
are
we
talking
about
that
you're
requesting
one
just
one,
just
one
to
start?
Listen!
We
got
you
one
too,
like.
A
Want
to
put
that
in
we're
here
to
support
that
request,
that
would
that
would
be
very
generous
and
very
helpful.
Yes
and
be
honest.
So
if
that
isn't
you'll,
you
will
have
my
advocacy
from
here
and
I
will
also
say
that
you
also
have
my
advocacy
on
what
I
know
is
an
uphill
battle
to
get
general
counsel
and
I.
Think
one
of
the
reasons
why
folks
aren't
turning
right.
They
face
discrimination.
They
feel
that
discrimination
is
happening.
They
don't
come
to
the
Housing
Commission
because,
like
how
long
is
it
going
to
take?
A
Is
it
going
to
take
forever?
Am
I
going
to
be
able
to
get
some
sort
of
resolution?
And
if
you
have
someone
in-house
who's
able
to
be
responsive,
that
could
be
really
great,
because
I
I
think
that
sometimes
our
residents
just
feel
like
what
we
have
isn't
working.
Not
only
are
we
not
putting
information
out
there
about
what
exists?
A
We're
not
saying
like
hey
making
it
obvious
that
if
you
face
discrimination
because
you're
black
or
because
you're
queer
in
the
process
of
of
buying
a
home
or
in
the
process
of
renting,
we
have
an
entity
that
can
support
you
and
that
can
be
quick
and
respond.
So
I
appreciate
you
uplifting
that
I
have
a
question
for
Karen
for
sorry,
for
director
is
whether
the
Home
Center
provides
home
buyers
with
training
on
how
to
identify
discrimination
and
on
what
to
do
in
the
home
buying
process
and
what
to
do
if
they
do
face
discrimination.
So.
L
In
our
first
time,
home
buyer
classes,
we
do
talk
them
about
the
third
Lending
Act
and
we're
starting
to
do
workshops
and
that's
part
of
one
of
our
workshops.
We
also
attend
the
sponsored,
first-time
homebuyer
classes,
just
talk
about
our
programs,
but
also
to
see
what
lenders
are
doing
when
there
are
training
in
the
past
before
coming
to
the
city
of
Boston,
because
I'm
also
back
in
the
city
of
Boston.
L
This
position
of
the
past
three
months,
I
also
serve
in
the
Chapa
commission
and
I
reviewed
a
lot
of
the
first
time
home
buyer
classes,
particularly
lenders
and
see
how
they
will
talk
about
the
discrimination
and
how
to
trigger
discrimination
or
how
to
so.
That
is
something
that
I'm
bringing
hanging
up
into
the
Boston
Home
Center.
This
is
my
third
month
in
the
Boston
Home
Center.
So
it's
something
that
we're
taking
very
serious
and
it's
going
to
be
more
in
a
workshop
that
we're
working
towards
thank.
F
A
Yes,
I
just
want
to
thank
you
for
being
here.
This
is
obviously
an
important
conversation
that
we
didn't
start
it
and
we
probably
won't
finish
it,
but
we're
going
to
work
on
it,
and
so
I
want
to
thank
both
of
you
for
being
here.
Next
time
we
will
have
the
CFO
the
city
treasurer,
to
really
dig
deep,
we'll
have
Federal
regulators
and
hopefully
we
can
move
the
ball
forward.
You
know
this
is
not.
A
We
have
a
big
problem
and
we
need
to
be
solving
it
at
from
all
the
different
angles:
production
preventing
the
Discrimination,
making
it
easier
via
one
plus
Boston
and
so
I.
Thank
you
for
your
participation.
We
had
an
excellent
panel
of
experts
and
Advocates,
who
were
here
so
I,
want
to
thank
them
and
for
still
being
here
and
for
all,
you
do
to
push
us
and
to
hold
us
accountable.
A
What
are,
what
you
know
is
this
normal
is
this:
what
should
be
happening
are
buyers
and
our
hopeful
buyers
face
a
lot
of
hurdles
and
so
I
think
everyone
who's
doing
the
work
to
sort
of
dismantle
those
barriers
and
just
you
know,
commit
to
being
part
of
the
solution.
So
this
docket
is
going
to
remain
in
committee
for
the
work
that
we
have
to
do
on
the
conferences
that
we
have
to
continue
around
link
deposit
around
the
municipal
banking
Commission
around
so
much
more
but
I.