►
From YouTube: Committee on Government Operations on May 22, 2020
Description
Docket #0505 - Petition for a Special Law re: An Act regarding the Disability Pension for Scott O’Brien, Ryan Lenane, Harry Jean, Terry Cotton, Kurt Stokinger, Matthew Morris and Richard Cintolo
A
A
A
A
D
A
A
Okay,
so
all
right,
I'm
formally
opening
the
hearing.
This
is
the
Committee
on
government
operations.
It's
Friday
May
22nd
2020
at
10:00
a.m.
ish.
The
docket
is
zero.
Five
zero
five
petition
for
a
special
law
regarding
an
act
regarding
the
disability,
pension
for
Scott,
O'brien
Ryan,
Linnane,
Harry,
gene
Terry,
cotton,
Kurt's
stoking
jur,
Matthew,
Morris
and
Richardson
Tolo
good
morning.
Everyone
I
am
city,
councilor,
Lydia,
Edwards,
chair
of
the
Committee
on
government
ops.
A
We
are
here
today
for
a
virtual
hearing
on
dock
at
zero
five
zero
five
in
accordance
with
the
governor
Baker's
March
12
2020
executive
order,
modifying
certain
requirements
of
the
Open
Meeting
Law
and
reliving
public
bodies
with
certain
requirements,
including
the
requirement.
The
public
bodies
conduct
its
meetings
in
a
public
place
that
is
open
and
physically
accessible.
The
City
Council
is
conducting
this
hearing
via
zoom.
This
enables
the
City
Council
to
carry
out
its
responsibilities
while
adhering
to
public
health
care
commendations.
The
public
may
watch
this
meeting
via
livestream
at.
A
E
A
This
formal
petition
would
increase
the
accidents
of
disability
requirement
allowance
payable
to
the
seven
officer
specifically
named
in
the
proposal.
Massachusetts
General
Laws
chapter
32,
section
7
governs
the
accidental
disability
retirement
allowance.
It
currently
allows
for
a
yearly
amount
of
pension
equal
to
72
percent
of
the
annual
rate
of
the
officers
regular
compensation.
A
This
proposal
will
increase
the
determent
allowance
to
the
rate
of
compensation
that
the
officer
would
have
received
had
such
officer
continued
service
as
a
police
officer,
essentially
increasing
it
to
a
hundred
percent.
The
home
row
petition
also
provides
for
the
surviving
spouse
as
follows:
an
annuity
in
the
amount
of
three-fourths
of
the
amount
of
the
pension
payable
to
the
officer
per
month
at
the
time
of
his
death
or
the
officers
death.
Excuse
me
if
the
surviving
spouse
remains
unmarried
and,
if
said,
surviving
spouse
remarries.
The
city
shall
pay.
A
F
H
A
What's
the
correct
pronunciation,
Coker!
Thank
you.
Okay,
thank
you
from
the
research
me
Massachusetts
research,
municipal
borough
and
we've
also
been
joined
by
my
colleague,
counselor
Mejia.
So
at
this
point,
I'm
gonna
ask
my
my
colleagues,
starting
with
the
lead
sponsor
for
any
brief
remarks
or
introductory
remarks
and
then
we'll
go
into
direct
questions
and
I'll
explain
the
standard
before
we
go
into
questions.
So
anybody
have
any
brief
remarks
before
I
explain
what
we're
going
to
be
doing
today,
counselor
asabi
George,
as
the
lead
sponsor
did
you
want
to
say
anything
briefly:
I.
E
Do
thank
you,
madam
chair,
and
thank
you
to
our
colleagues
and
others
who
have
joined
us
this
morning.
We
have
had
a
slight
adjustment
in
the
plans
for
the
panel
this
morning,
so
I
know
that
there
are
some
questions
from
our
colleagues
and
and
specifically
Council
I
already
had
a
number
of
questions
in
regards
to
this
home
little
petition.
So
if
we
could
perhaps
move
to
that
so
that
we
are
better
prepared
for
a
more
appropriate
hearing
with
the
seven
officers,
Scott
Ryan
Harry,
Terry,
Kirk,
Matt
and
rich
for
a
later
date.
H
H
C
Yeah
just
other
than
we're
not
in
receipt
of
any
of
the
formal
packets
that
we
normally
get
as
that
is
the
longest-serving
member,
and
someone
has
done
these
probably
more
than
anybody
on
on
this
on
this
zoom.
We
don't
have,
we
don't
have
the
reed,
so
everyone
gets
a
packet,
they
get
every
packet
from
retirement,
they
apply
for
retirement
and
they
get
the
72
percent,
and
then
they
come
to
us
with
the
retirement
packet
yeah
and
included
in
that,
obviously,
is
the
police,
the
and
every
more
after
actions,
affidavits,
medicals
and
stuff,
like
that.
C
C
B
A
You
very
much
before
I
turn
the
mic
over
to
also
been
joined
by
councillor
Baker.
Yes,
thank
you
very
much.
We've
been
joined
by
councillor
Baker.
Thank
you
very
much,
councillor
sabi
George
councillor
Baker.
Did
you
have
any
introductory
remarks?
I
was
just
going
to
quickly
go
through
the
process.
No.
A
A
First
there's,
naturally
a
severe
injury
on
the
job
which
they
would
have
to
show
that
it
happened
while
they
were
working
for
the
City
of
Boston
or
the
municipality.
The
employee
then
goes
to
the
Public
Employee
Retirement
Administration
Commission,
also
known
as
Pyrrhic.
That
is
that
commission
establishes
already
rules
and
procedures
that
govern
disability
retirement.
The
purpose
of
the
rules
and
regulations
is
to
establish
uniform
standards
and
procedures
to
be
applied
by
local
retirement
boards,
that
the
pea
rack
will
assess
the
standard
for
a
disability,
retirement
for
ordinary
or
accidental
injuries
or
a
disability.
A
A
Yeah,
thank
you.
You
must
go
to
the
pier
ACK,
you
must
be
retired
and
then
you
would
come
to
the
City
Council
and
we
would
assess
your
injury
at
certain
standards
to
determine
where
the
disability
is
permanent
and
also
to
assess
whether
that's
the
person
and
I'll
read
it
directly
from
the
statute.
Excuse
me.
A
E
Madam
chair
I've
asked
the
police
officers
not
to
be
present
today.
We
do
have
I
think
maybe
a
few
of
them
watching
at
home
and
I
know
the
some
of
the
members
of
the
Boston
Police
patrolman's
Association
are
watching
from
home
or
elsewhere
and
I
do
want
to
note,
though,
that
we
do
not
determine
disability.
Disability
is
determined
by
both
a
medical
doctor
and
the
Retirement
Board
and
P
RAC.
E
As
you
mentioned,
our
determination
here
as
part
of
this
Home
Rule
petition
is
whether
we
support
making
these
officers,
who
will
be
retired
at
that
point
of
the
seven
we
would.
Our
determination
is
that
they
should
be
made
whole,
and
that
is
my
hope
that
these
these,
in
this
case,
all
men
who
are
who
were
injured
in
the
line
of
duty
who
were
shot
in
the
line
of
duty,
are
made
whole.
E
We
have,
for
example,
Scott
O'brien
who,
on
January
16
2004,
was
shot
in
the
jaw
wrist
and
forearm
in
the
line
of
duty,
Ryan
Linnane,
who
was
shot
December
2013
gunshot
wound
to
the
arm.
Responding
to
a
call
for
service
was
shot
in
the
line
of
duty,
Harry
Jean.
On
August,
7th
2013
gunshot
wound
to
the
to
the
leg
during
a
motor
vehicle,
stop
sustained
life-threatening
injuries,
career-ending
injuries
and
was
shot
in
the
line
of
duty.
Terry
cotton
on
August
7th
2013,
along
with
Harry
Jean,
shot
in
the
line
of
duty
unable
to
work.
E
During
that
same
event,
these
are
all
officers
who
have
been
either
already
retired
or
in
the
process
of
being
retired
and
who
have
been
evaluated
by
medical
doctors
and
have
almost
all
of
them
have
already
been
retired
and
determined
to
be
retired.
We
are
looking
in
the
rest.
We
are
expecting
that
to
happen
soon
and
I.
Think
there's
two
or
three
outstanding
medical
doctors
determine
someone's
medical
status
and
ability
to
be
retired.
I
am
not
comfortable
in
this
format.
Sharing
private
medical
records
with
a
body
that
have
already
been
determined
to
to
qualify,
as
so.
E
A
E
I
am
because
I
do
not
what
I'm
hopeful
to
avoid.
Is
these
seven
officers
who
have
relived
their
experiences
multiple
times
that
they
don't
need
to
relive
this
over
and
over
again?
So
my
hope
is
that
we
have
all
the
information
that
our
colleague
in
particular
had
asked
for
all
the
information
that
is
necessary
for
this
hearing
to
continue
at
another
point
and
have
those
officers
with
us
that
day
I
also
want
to
know,
by
coincidence,
the
day
I
filed
this
or
brought
this
before
our
body
as
a
whole.
E
When
I
submitted
this
Home
Rule
petition.
By
coincidence,
there
was
also
a
Home
Rule
petition
for
assurance,
that
of
all
of
our
first
responders
and
first
responding
divisions,
Public
Safety
divisions
that
were
considerate
of
mental
health
and
physical
health
well-being.
There
is
significant
impacts
to
each
of
these
officers
physically,
but
there's
also
an
incredible
medical
to
a
mental
health
tool
that
these
injuries
and
career-ending
injuries
have
have.
E
They
were
also
experiencing
a
mental
health
issue
or
an
impact
on
their
mental
health.
Because
of
these
injuries
and
I
would
like
to
limit
the
amount,
the
number
of
times
we're
asking
them
to
come
before
us
and
relive
their
experiences
and
retell
the
stories
of
their
injuries
and
share
what
I
think
is
very
private
information
that
has
been
reviewed
by
medical
doctors
that
has
been
reviewed
by
a
Retirement
Board.
So
my
hope
is
that
our
colleagues
at
state
very
clearly
what
the
information
they
need
is
councillor.
E
A
You
very
much
I'll
go
ahead
and
turn
it
over
then
to
each
of
the
colleagues
about
the
information
that
they
need.
I
will
remind
folks
that
is
counselor.
Sabi
George
is
correct.
We
do
not
make
a
medical
determination
of
their
disability.
What
they're
asking
for
is
to
ask
for
an
exception
to
the
72%
that
they
would
get
at
retirement
and
ask
for
an
increase,
essentially
100%,
and
it's
a
public
process
of
which
this
body
assesses
that
that
asked,
and
then
the
the
state
house
would
assess
that
asked.
A
C
Chair
and
obviously
through
the
chair
and
respectfully,
this
is
just
not
how
we
do
them.
There
is
a
process
and
there's
a
statutory
legal
standard
that
we
have
to
meet
as
a
legislative
body
where
it's
baked
in
to
the
100%
legislation
and-
and
so
what
the
first
thing
we
need
is.
We
need
the
exact
retirement
date
of
all
of
the
individuals,
so
they're
deserving
and
the
deserving
misses
aside.
Let's
get,
let's
just
start
with
the
process,
so
not
even
questioning
the
the
legitimacy
of
lay
out
the
applications,
but
let's
just
start
the
process.
C
The
very
first
thing
that
we
need
is:
we
need
their
actual
retirement
date
where
they
go
out
72%
and
their
retirement
packet.
It's
a
packet
that
basically
follows
this
application
for
one
and
a
percent.
They
go
to
the
Retirement
Board,
they
have
a
process,
they
get,
they
get
their
retirement
granted.
They
then
take
that
packet,
and
then
they
come
to
the
Boston
City
Council
within
that
packet
in
their
application
will
be
the
underlying
please
report,
and/or
reports
any
and
all
after-action
reports
for
the
event
medical
records
there
there's
a
department
doctor
analysis.
C
This
is
the
offices
analysis
and
then
there's
a
third
party,
mutual
advocate
or
a
report.
If
you
will
and
then
in
instances
as
the
sponsor
had
alluded
to,
that
may
be
some
that
this
event
in
rehashing
is
is
traumatic.
They
will
have
either
an
attorney
or
a
personal
representative
or
in
some
instances
of
be
will
be
their
union.
If
they're
our
officer,
it's
the
be
PPA.
C
If
they're,
that's
the
detective
Union,
if
they're
a
superior
officer,
it
would
be
the
superior
officers
Union
and
those
those
individuals
would
come
forward
and
make
their
case
before
the
Boston
City
Council.
But
we
are
absolutely
entitled
to
that.
Documentation
and
I've
never
been
involved
in
a
situation
granting
100%
where
we
didn't
have
that
information
as
traumatic
and
as
serious.
F
C
As
terrific
as
these
events
are
it's
important
that
we
have
that
information,
because
we
have
to
make
informed
decisions
having
the
information
technically
will
prevent.
Maybe
some
of
these
questions
being
asked
out
in
a
public
forum,
but
but
so
I
think
I
think
this
hearing,
quite
frankly,
is,
is
just
a
little
premature.
C
C
Have
those
retirement
packets,
I,
respectfully
request
through
the
chair
to
the
maker,
or
even
through
the
chair,
that
we
have
those
packets
in
there
13
copies,
plus
a
copy
for
the
clerk
in
central
staff
be
made
available
so
that
we
could
assess
and
evaluate
each
and
every
one
of
them
on
the
merits
again,
aside
from
the
deserving
miss
and
the
willingness,
that's
the
process,
and
we
cannot
sidestep
the
process
for
anyone
for
any
reason.
With
the
legislative
branch
of
city
government,
we
have
a
fiduciary
responsibility.
There
are
employees
in
terms
of
their
city,
employees.
C
We
need
to
be
able
to
vet
this
appropriately
through
the
committee,
and
then
the
committee
will
issue
a
committee
report.
Furthermore,
in
my
experience
and
I've
never
been,
we've
never
lumped
them
in
all
as
a
one
or
all
or
none
or
none
at
all.
It's
they
all
have
to
come
forward
on
their
own
merits,
and
so
I
would
also
from
a
procedural
standpoint.
We
need
to
identify
it.
C
We
need
to
need
to
find
a
way
through
committee
to
be
able
to
break
these
up
individually
so
that
we're
entertaining
them
one
at
a
time
so
anyways,
that's
my
two
cents
on
it
again.
It's
just
based
on
my
experience,
the
longest-serving
member
I've
done
more
of
these
than
anyone
and
that's
how
it
is
it's.
It's.
C
Think
in
my
18
years
on
the
council,
I
think
we've
probably
done
five
or
six
we've.
Quite
frankly,
we've
rejected
more
than
we've
granted.
It's
a
big
deal
to
my
colleagues,
particularly
the
new
colleagues
when
you're
you're
granting
a
hundred
percent.
In
addition
to
that
it,
it
follows
them
through
their
lifetime,
plus
their
spouse
will
get
seventy
five
percent
and
I
believe
their
son
or
daughter
gets
its
preference
to
to
go
on
the
civil
service.
C
Plus
it's
a
big
deal
again
in
in
in
in
most
of
the
cases
or
many
of
the
cases
we've
dealt
with,
they've
been
deserving,
and
that's
why
we
have
the
hundred
percent
law
that's
there,
but
in
order
to
get
to
the
hundred
percent
there
is
a
process
in
that
process
includes
the
packet
with
the
information
in
the
in
the
in
the
presentation,
and
then
we
we
do
our.
We
do
our
work
on
behalf
of
the
city,
employees,
so
I'm
I'm,
confident
injured
in
knowing
the
seven
individuals
I
know
them
many
of
them
personally.
C
I've
worked
with
them
as
an
assistant
district
attorney,
I'm
aware
of
the
situation,
but
but
we
got
to
kind
of
do
our
eyes
and
cross
that
T's,
because
we
have
that
fiduciary
responsibility
for
the
taxpayer
and
I
guess
I
understand
that
it
is
traumatic
to
have
to
ask
questions
until
we
live
situations.
It's
that's
the
process
number
one!
C
That's
why
they
have
legal
or
personal
representatives
endure
their
respective
unions
to
advocate
on
their
behalf
in
situations
where
it's
it
would
be
traumatic
to
to
every
live
that,
but
nonetheless
week
we
we
need
this
information
I,
as
you
recall,
madam
chair,
and
in
the
lead
sponsor
I've
asked
for
this
information
all
week
and
we're
in
hearing
it's
a
little.
It's
almost
10:30
we're
15
minutes
in
and
I
still
don't
have
the
packet
from
the
individuals.
It
tells
me
one
or
two
things:
either
a
the
individual.
C
There
is
no
packet
and
if
there
is
no
packet,
that
means
that
these
individuals
have
not
been
retired,
which
that's
a
problem.
They
need
to
retire.
First,
I
also
see
that
the
Retirement
Board
isn't
here
that
time
it
blackens
council
and
confirms
to
the
council
that
they
retired
the
individual
at
the
statutory
72%
I,
don't
see
anyone
from
the
Retirement
Board
here,
that's
correct,
yeah!
If
we're
gonna
do
this
I
want
to
do
this.
C
I
want
to
do
this
right,
it's
a
matter
of
basic
fairness
to
the
officers
in
their
families,
but
it's
also
it's
it's.
It's
our
opportunity,
as
the
legislative
branch
of
city
government
to
be
able
to
do
our
homework.
Get
the
facts.
Get
the
information,
make
an
informed
decision
that
hopefully
will
lead
to
these
individuals
deservingly
receiving
the
hundred
percent
benefit,
but
there's
no
other
way
to
do
this.
It
starts
with
them
retiring
then
getting
the
retirement
packet.
Then
they
bring
the
packet
to
the
council.
C
That
includes
all
of
this
information,
the
the
incident,
the
police
reports,
the
after
actions
and
in
some
instances,
affidavits
and
clearly
the
medical
documentation
and
then
we
proceed
and
then
we
vote-
and
this
is
the
rest
of
the
process,
the
council
votes
and
if
there's
an
affirmative
vote,
it
goes
over
to
the
mayor.
The
mayor
is,
then
required
to
review
and
sign,
and
then
the
mayor
sends
it
up
to
Beacon
Hill
and
it
basically
becomes
part
of
a
special
act.
That's
the
process
there's
no
way
to
circumvent
it.
C
There's
no
way
to
sidestep
it
and
there's
most
definitely
no
way
that
the
council
is
going
to
be
able
to
make
an
informed
decision
and
take
a
vote
without
this
information.
So
again
through
the
chair
to
make
a
well
I'm
willing
to
work
with
whoever
I'm
willing
to
work
with
the
applicants.
I
can
tell
them
how
it
works.
They
should
know
their
union
leadership
should
know,
and
again
this
is
an
adversary.
This
is
we
want
to
be
helpful
here.
C
So
that's
like
two
cents,
based
on
my
experience,
take
it
for
whatever
it's
worth
happy
to
work
with
you,
as
the
chair
happy
to
work
with
the
lead
sponsor
happy
to
work
with
the
the
unions
on
it
again,
just
based
on
my
experience.
This
is
of
how
we
do
them
unless
we're
going
to
create
this
new
standard
by
which
someone
just
comes
forward,
and
we
give
them
the
good
housekeeping
stamp
of
approval,
with
no
information,
no
documentation,
no
underlying
reports.
C
C
So
I'd
like
to
hear
from
somebody
that
says:
hey,
yes,
we
they
have
in
fact
retired
and
here's
their
packet,
and
here
you
go
consul
and
unless
we
have
that
we're
kind
of
like
we're
putting
the
cart
before
the
horse
and
we
need
to
hit
the
brakes
and
let
them
retire,
let
them
get
the
packet
and
through
their
union
leadership
and
or
their
attorneys
and
personal
representative
has
come
to
us,
and
then
we
start
the
process.
Thank
you.
Thank.
A
F
Thank
you,
madam
chair
I.
Don't
have
any
requests
for
a
councillor.
George
I
I
also
know
many
of
the
Boston
police
officers
and
know
their
situation,
their
professionalism
and
hard
work.
Dedication
to
the
city
for
so
many
years,
so
I
certainly
support
the
the
proposal.
What
I?
What
I
don't
want
to
see
happen,
though,
is
us
go
forward
and
then
somehow,
before
it
even
gets
to
the
governor's
signature
that
it's
not
approved.
Okay,.
F
F
That's
my
that's
my
number
one
concern,
but
as
far
as
the
as
far
as
these
Boston
police
officers,
because
I've
known
many
of
them
on
when
I
worked
as
a
probation
officer,
they
were
with
me
on
different
public
safety
initiatives,
community
policing,
their
exceptional
police
offices
and
did
a
tremendous
job,
the
city,
so
those
those
are
my
two
points
council
head
would
say.
Thank
you.
Thank.
A
D
Iii
Co
the
concerns
of
councillor
Flynn
and
consular
hardy
and
I
think
having
all
the
necessary
documentation
and
making
sure
everything
is
in
order
before
it
proceeds
would
be,
would
be
prudent
in
the
sense
we
don't
want
to
get
further
down.
The
road
and
half
of
the
whole
process
stalled,
because
we've
missed
something
so
I
will
be
guided
by
by
their
level
experience
in
these
matters.
Thank
you.
J
This
has
been
packaged
together
and
the
precedent
that
that
would
create
I.
Don't
think
that
this.
That
is
a
precedent
you
should
be
trying
to
create
with
this
body.
I
think
we
should
take
each
individual
case
and
look
at
the
merits.
I,
certainly
I
think
it's
important
work,
those
on
our
front
lines
who
do
this
work,
and
particularly
those
who
get
injured
in
the
job
they
should
be
taken
care
of,
but
I
think
it
is
very
important
that
we
have
a
thorough
process
that
we
vet
these
applications
and
that
we
make
informed
decisions.
J
So
I
would
appreciate
that
I
think
in
terms
of
understanding.
What's
happened
in
past
cases,
you
know,
counsel
clarity
shared
his
memory
of
it,
but
these
are
public
records
and
so
I'd
like
to
know
what
the
facts
are.
So,
over
the
last
twenty
years,
how
many
cases
were
approved?
How
many
cases
were
rejected
so
I'd
like
to
know
like
how
many
applicants
came
forward,
how
many
were
approved?
How
many
were
rejected?
I
think
that
we
can
get
that
information.
I
can.
A
J
I
think
you
know
there
are
other
I
would
certainly
have
I.
Think
questions
based
on
you
know
the
packets,
in
the
cases
I
have
I'd,
be
interested.
I
know,
Pam
Coker
is
on
this
call,
I'd
be
interested
in
what
the
financial
implications
are
for
each
and
not
that
that
should
lead.
It
I
think
the
the
merits
of
the
case
should
lead
whether
or
not
we
approve
this,
but
we
do
have
a
responsibility,
so
I
think
I
would
want
just
as
part
of
the
information
gathering
I
would
want
to
understand.
J
G
Thank
you,
madam
chair,
and
thank
you
to
the
sponsor,
obviously
for
filing
it.
I
agree
with
counter
flier
I.
Don't
think
I
need
to
sort
of
go
through
entirely
what
he
said,
but
putting
my
legal
hat
on.
Obviously,
these
cases
involve
some
level
of
legal
complexity.
We
all
serve
constituents.
We
are
the
financial
stewards
of
the
city
of
Boston.
So,
of
course,
all
of
our
constituents
want
to
know
not
only
the
merits
of
each
individual
case,
but
how
much
it's
going
to
cost
what
cases
we've
done
in
the
past.
G
I
know
as
chair
of
public
safety,
particularly
when
I
was
in
my
first
term
on
the
council.
Some
of
these
issues
came
up
previously
and
I
did
go
to
council,
arity
and
other
colleagues
who
had
that
institutional
knowledge
to
learn
more
about
what
the
process
is.
Many
of
the
union
leaders
have
also
shared
freely
about
the
import
of
having
the
packets
and
getting
that
information
which
we
don't
have
with
us
today.
So
we
can't
make
an
informed
decision
I'm.
G
So,
looking
forward
to
a
follow-up
hearing
when
we
have
all
of
that
information
in
front
of
us
and
I
do
want
to
stress
this
point
so
that
we're
all
clear
that
none
of
us
on
this
body
have
had
and
will
ever
discount
the
service
of
the
employees
and
all
of
our
employees,
whether
they
are
officers
in
Fire
EMS.
All
of
our
city,
employees,
who
are
dedicated
I,
often
say
city
employees
are
overworked
and
underpaid,
and
now,
in
the
midst
of
covin
19,
really
seeing
our
folks
show
up
and
they
should
be
applauded.
G
B
Yes,
thank
you,
madam
chair
and
I
would
like
to
echo
the
same
sentiments
I'm
new,
so
I'm
learning
this
process
as
I
go
so
I
tuned
in
just
to
learn,
and
what
I
do
realize
that
oh
flower
you've
been
on
since
for
18
years.
That's
all
you
definitely
know
you.
You
you've
been
around
and
I
do
appreciate
your
leadership
and
helping
us
understand
this
situation.
I
am
curious
as
though,
as
we
continue
to
go
down
this
rabbit
hole.
B
So
if
we're
gonna
do
if
we
go
down
that,
if
we
go
down
that
path,
I
think
it'll
be
really
important
for
us
to
ensure
that
we
do
a
deeper
dive
and
make
sure
that
that
everyone
is
getting
their
fair
share,
even
folks,
who
never
even
thought
to
do
something
like
this
just
I'm
just
very
curious.
Now
about
the
equity
piece
of
it
so,
but
thank
you
for
bringing
us
together
today.
I
B
I
Their
rights
around
all
this
thing,
I,
don't
think
you're
gonna
come
up
with
like
these
seven
seven
people
that
are
there
they're,
probably
the
only
seven
in
the
in
the
city
that
are
gonna
be
available
because,
like
if
someone's
in
public
works
or
something
and
they
think
what
with
we're
not
gonna
win.
We
as
a
council
I,
don't
think
we're
gonna
escalate
like
a
public
works
case
or
case
like
that.
Unless
someone
fell
out
of
a
truck
out
of
a
tree
and
died
like
that,
maybe
you
give
the
benefit
there.
B
A
I
B
A
A
K
A
A
E
Have
I
don't
have
the
exact
list
in
front
of
me
today,
because
I
was
anticipating
that
we
were
withholding
or
postponing
this
hearing.
Four
of
the
seven
are
certainly
retired
and
have
reached
that
benchmark
the
more
the
three
more
recent
individuals
are
in
the
midst
of
that
process
and
the
time
that
this
process
takes
at
the
time
that
that
process
takes
they
would
need
to
be
retired
before
we
completed.
This
I
think
that
it's
also
very
helpful
to
have
the
almost
two
decades
of
service
the
counselor
clarity
has
had
to
this
bodies.
E
Information
before
us
today,
I
appreciate
the
feedback,
sir
from
all
of
our
colleagues,
especially
those
with
a
few
years
of
experience
under
they're
about
to
share
this
information.
I
would
appreciate
from
counselor
clarity
through
the
chair
if
he
could
share
some
of
that
historical
information,
the
names
of
police
officers,
the
dates
of
incident,
the
dates
of
retirement.
That
would
be
very
helpful
to
be
to
have
better
information
for
all
of
us
for
a
what
I
hope
is
a
rescheduled
hearing,
also
for
Pam
I'm
happy
to
have
sort
of
her
testimony
today.
E
A
Would
it
make
sense
for
the
next
hearing
and
two,
if
it's
a
matter
of
urgency,
especially
to
to
have
four
go
on
and
split
up
the
home
role,
because
it's
why
lump
all
seven
of
them
together,
if
all
seven
aren't
retired?
So
it
seems
to
me
that
it
would
make
sense
that
they,
you
know,
we
go
ahead
and
move
with
the
for
folks
who
meet
the
threshold
to
be
before
this
body.
E
So
I
appreciate
the
feedback,
especially
from
our
long
serving
member
and
we'll
double
down
on
some
of
the
the
information
that
he's
requested.
I
am
very
concerned
about
sharing
personal
medical
records
in
this
format.
Medical
records
that
have
already
been
reviewed
by
appropriate
people
so
that
we
can
continue
to
debate
perhaps
offline
and
appreciate
the
concerns
of
all
of
our
colleagues.
I
appreciate
the
concerns
of
our
newest
colleagues,
because
that
that
I
think
has
led
us
to
I
think
a
thoughtful
discussion
today,
but
I
do
I
will
say
just
for
the
record.
E
It's
something
that
I'll
have
to
contemplate
on
my
own,
perhaps
in
collaboration
with
you,
madam
chair
around,
that
medical
record
piece,
because
I
do
feel
very
a
very
hesitant
to
share
that,
because
it
does
it's
it's
more
than,
and
every
single
one
of
these
officers
have
experienced
more
than
a
simple
physical
injury.
If
it
was.
A
F
E
A
Right,
let
me
let
me
finish:
counselor
sorry,
George,
so
I
don't
want
you
to
think
that
I
am
dismissing
that
kind
of
relived
pain
or
that
kind
of
trauma
for
them
and
their
family
right.
So
that
is.
That
is
something
that
we
absolutely
need
to
weigh.
We
also
need
to
weigh
the
process
and
the
concerns
and
I
want
to
be
very
clear.
A
You
know
every
process,
that's
vetting,
something
that
has
a
burden
if
a
person
is
seeking
that,
regardless
of
the
injury
that
they
have
had,
it
is
still
there
to
prove
something
now
and
that
happens
for
people
who
have
been
rape
victims
who
have
to
go
to
trial.
Those
are
for
folks
who
have
been
injured
and
have
to
explain
what
happened
to
them
and
they're
in
a
class-action
suit.
A
There
are
certain
issues
and
concerns,
so
you
have
my
commitment,
counselor
asabi
George,
to
do
my
best
due
diligence
to
make
sure
that
one
they
are
not
re-injured
in
this
process
and
I
will
happily
work
with
you.
I
will
happily
work
with
their
union
rep
and
whoever
they
choose
to
send
on
their
behalf.
If
it
is
such
a
level
of
retraumatization
that
they
cannot
testify,
that's
number
one
number
two
in
as
much
as
this
process
requires
us
to
look
at
documents
and
understand
what
is
happening
to
them.
A
I
think
what
would
be
helpful
is
again
having
those
those
packets
distributed
with
understanding
of
redaction,
and
what
we
could
do
is
if
we
feel
that
there's
certain
information
that
is
redacted,
we
will
personally
check
in
with
the
officer
about
why
that
is
or
isn't
redacted
before
we
have
a
public
forum
of
which
they
feel
they're
being
put
on
trial.
That
is
my
commitment
to
you,
but
I
want
to
be
clear.
A
I
don't
want
to
set
this
precedent
where
there's
seven
in
a
group
and
where
we
don't
have
access
to
even
ask
about
the
information,
so
that
is,
that
is
I.
Think
we're
going
to
we're
actually
going
to
continue
this
and
we'll
continue.
This
and
I
I
do
hope.
The
offices
or
a
person
in
their
representation
will
be
here
the
next
time
the
Retirement
Board
did
not.
He
had
emailed
before
saying
that
he
couldn't
make
it
or
wasn't
wasn't
going
to
make
himself
available.
A
K
Thank
you
very
much,
chair
Edwards,
particularly
because
I
believe
you
said
councillor
Jamie
might
have
a
specific
question.
I'd
be
happy
to
have
that
conversation
and
preface
it
with
a
few
remarks.
If
you
don't
remind,
if
you
don't
mind
yeah
well,
so
thank
you
for
your
time.
This
morning
my
name
is
Pam
Coker
I
am
the
president
of
the
Boston
Municipal
Research
Bureau
I'm.
K
Also
a
city
resident
I
want
to
preface
my
comments
today
by
saying
I
do
appreciate
the
challenge
faced
by
Public
Safety
employees
and
workers
at
any
type
of
job,
who
experience
a
disabling
injury
on
the
job
and
related
impacts
of
the
injury
on
their
overall
physical,
emotional
and
mental
well-being.
My
professional
background
includes
work
in
the
occupational
health
field,
including
our
role
interviewing
people
injured
at
their
job,
to
understand
their
experience
and
efforts
to
get
appropriate
care
for
those
injuries
through
the
workers.
K
Compensation
system,
which
has
been
a
very
difficult
challenge
for
many
of
those
folks
trying
to
work
through
that
system
to
get
what
they
need
and
there
are
any
facing
a
significant
physical
injury,
so
I
just
wanted
to.
Let
you
know
I
have
that
that
background
as
I
speak
to
this
petition
for
a
special
law
today
purely
from
a
public
policy
and
fiscal
perspective,
as.
K
K
Second
point
is
the
city
of
Boston's
fiscal
healthiest
high
priority
for
the
research,
Bureau
and
employee
benefits,
including
pensions,
are
a
significant
share
of
the
city's
annual
spending,
as
it
is
for
other
cities
and
towns
and
for
private
businesses,
special
exceptions
to
standard
policies
such
as
special
pension
enhancements
for
an
individual.
Do
you
make
it
more
difficult
to
manage
the
cost
of
providing
a
fair
pension
system
of
benefits
for
all
employees,
and
I
did
do
just
some
back-of-the-envelope
calculations
about
the
numbers.
I
do
recommend
that
you
seek.
K
There
are
existing
system
at
that
time,
so
perhaps,
rather
than
continuing
to
consider
individual
opportunities
at
the
floor
enhancement
outside
of
the
standard
approach
of
a
system
you
may
wish
to
consider
pursuing
with
state
state
and
local
leaders
revisiting
by
the
state
of
that
disability
benefit
system,
as
it
exists
today
and
happy
to
take
any
questions.
Thank
you.
Thank.
A
A
I
I
could
I
believe
this
conversation
is
just
gonna,
be
continued,
so
you'll
be
invited
to
the
next
one.
We
would
have
your
testimony.
Hopefully
we'll
have
some
packets.
We
have
a
whole
world
to
assess
and
then
we'll
come
go
for
it.
Okay,
terrific
thanks
very
much
I'm
gonna.
Ask
my
colleagues
for
any
oh
I
see
so
I
got
two
hands
for
additional
comments,
but
if
anyone
wants
to
conclude
or
again
so
just
for
everyone
to
understand,
I'm
gonna
continue
this
we'll
come
back.
We'll
have
more
information,
some
people
who
are
retired.
A
We
should
move
them
through
counselor,
so
I'll
go
in
order
again
for
anyone
who
has
concluded
concluding
remarks
and
we've
also
been
joined
by
actually
councillor
Rowley.
Oh
excuse
me
so
councillor
Rowley,
oh,
we
allowed
for
opening
remarks
and
also
questions
for
additional
information
from
councillor
sabe
George
did
you
have
either.
L
Thank
You
chairwoman
I
did
but
because
it
seems
like
I
came
at
the
end
and
I'm
sorry
for
that.
I
had
a
scheduling,
conflict
that
jumped
up
on
me,
I'll
actually
rewatch
this
and
then,
if
you're
gonna
continue
it
I'll
have
them
prepared
for
that.
I
did
need
more
information,
then
I
received,
and
so
it
sounds
like
that
was
addressed
and
that
we
may
be
getting
that
not
necessarily
right
now,
but
the
fact
that
that
information
is
needed
was
addressed
and
so
I'll
watch
the
tape
and
then
I'll
get
whatever
information
you
add.
A
C
Appreciate
the
work
that
she's
done,
obviously,
and
particularly
in
the
on
the
mental
health
side
of
the
house
and
she's,
done
great
work
and
particularly
around
post-traumatic
stress,
like
understand
and
appreciate
the
sensitivity
around
that
and
I
empathize
with
that.
But
unfortunately,
the
way
that
this
process
is
is
designed
with
respect
to
granting
100%
the
the
the
application
and
the
medical
records
is
public
record
in
its
public
record.
C
I
completely
understand
it,
but
unfortunately
there's
no
way
around
it
and
that's
why
they're
afforded
the
opportunity
to
have
an
attorney
or
personal
representative
in
or
to
to
submit
affidavits
I,
remember
vividly
being
on
the
council
when
one
of
the
applicants
at
the
time
literally
come
in
with
a
two-wheeler
in
it.
It
had
like
four
or
five
boxes
of
all
medical
records
that
was
made
available
in
the
event
that
a
member
of
the
council
or
the
press
wanted
to
ask
a
question
or
review
some
documentation.
It's
part
of
the
process.
C
It's
baked
in
these
offices
know
that
we're
they're
asking
us
to
grant
them.
100
percent,
that's
a
big
deal
and
in
the
deserving
of
it.
So
there's
that
so,
starting
with
the
fact
that
we
don't
even
going
there
yet
so,
not
even
critiquing
the
applications,
let's
just
assuming
everyone
is,
is
deserving
of
that,
and
we
want
to
appreciate
and
thank
their
service.
I
know
them
all
prick
I
mean
Scott
O'brien
good
shot
on
the
neck.
C
Detective
Harry
Jean,
one
of
the
nicest
guys,
a
smile
that
would
light
up
the
room,
Matt
Morris,
good
kid
good,
cop,
great
family,
it's
like
we
know
them
all
it's.
So,
let's
put
all
of
that
aside.
There's
a
process
in
these
offices
in
their
respective
unions
know
that
the
process
by
which
you
get
100%
is
they
have
to
come
forward.
They
have
to
retire
with
it
in
that
retirement
process.
C
They're
applying
for
100%
in
that
is
the
medical
documentation,
the
affidavits,
the
reports,
it's
all
public
record,
so
we're
not
asking
them
for
anything
that
they
don't
know
that
they
have
to
submit
we're,
also
not
asking
them
anything
that
they're
not
prepared
or
their
legal
team.
Whether
union
reps
are
not
prepared
to
answer
it's
part
of
the
process,
so
I'll
leave
it
at
that
and
obviously
I
want.
If
they're
listening
I
want
them
to
know
how
much
we
appreciate
their
service
to
our
city,
we
want
them
to
know.
C
We
want
to
work
with
them
to
be
able
to
make
them
whole
with
respect
to
the
to
the
sacrifices
they've
made,
and
also
the
lasting
physical
and
mental
health
issues
that
they'll
be
sustaining
for
the
rest
of
their
lives,
and
we
obviously
want
to
make
sure
that
we're
supporting
their
spouses
and
their
families.
But
this
has
nothing
that
has
nothing
to
do
with
the
sort
of
the
process
and
making
sure
that
we
have
the
appropriate
documentation
and
verification
so
that
we
can
do
my
job
as
City
Council.
C
C
So
we
need
to
make
sure
that
we're
recessing,
but
then
we
have
to
find
a
way
to
break
the
seven
into
individual
applications,
and
so
through
that
I
don't
know
if
they
need
to
be
individual
docket
numbers,
but
I'll
leave
that
up
to
the
chair
of
the
committee,
probably
working
with
Christine
O'donnell
and
obviously
the
lead
sponsor
as
to
how
do
we?
How
do
we
sort
of
end
today
with
the
opportunity
to
revisit
all
of
these?
C
Because
again,
if
you
adjourn
madam
chair
will
locked
out-
and
we
can't
revisit
this
until
2021,
which
would
be
a
huge
disservice
to
the
men
that
we're
reviewing
now
and
their
families,
so
I
would
caution
in
terms
of
when
you
close
out,
the
appropriate
verbiage
is
going
to
need
to
be
applied
and
again,
I
would
defer
to
Christine
on
what
that
language
would
be,
and
if
we're
going
to
go
into
a
working
session.
My
next
procedural
question
would
be:
how
do
we
take
this
docket
number,
these
seven
individuals
and
then
either
assign
them?
A
Going
to
yep
yep
I.
Thank
you
so
much
we're
going
to
just
continue
the
conversation.
This
is
not
adjourned.
We're
not
ending
it
and
I
believe
we
can
can
can
have
as
many
hearings
about
a
topic.
I
do
agree
that
working
with
the
lead
sponsor
counselor
sabe
George's
we
committed
to
before
looking
at
those
who
are
ripe
and
ready
to
move
on
with
their
their
claims
before
us,
those
who
were
formerly
retired,
we
can
go
through,
but
you
know
before
we
go
before
I
end.
A
J
Thank
you,
madam
chair,
and
just
to
reiterate,
I,
think
the
importance
of
having
a
thorough
process,
as
you've
heard
from
other
colleagues,
think
it's
very
important
that
we
have
the
information
needed
to
make
informed
decisions.
So
thank
you
for
sharing.
Thank
you
to
the
lead,
sponsor
look
forward
to
continuing
the
conversation.
G
Thank
you,
madam
chair
and
I
just
had
two
points.
One
was
summed
up
by
counsel
Flaherty
on
the
medical
records
piece,
and
this
was
me
putting
my
lawyer
hat
on,
but
unfortunately,
when
you
come
through
a
public
process
like
this,
with
this
request,
it's
going
to
be
difficult
for
folks
not
to
waive
HIPPA,
so
I
hear
councillor.
Sabri
George's
concerns
around
that.
So
just
wanted
to
flag
that
piece
and
then
the
second
is
going
back
to
I.
G
Think
councillor
Mejia
and
councillor
Baker's
point
in
these
cases,
specifically
repetitions
like
this
one
of
the
things
I
think
why
it's
critically
important
we
have
documentation
and
robust
discussion
is.
There
are
other
city,
employees
and
other
constituents
that
live
in
our
district,
who
are
not
always
happy
with
these
types
of
cases,
because
there
are
city
employees
that
get
hurt
on
the
job
as
well
in
and
for
their
reasons
they
want
to
see
a
hundred
percent,
and
we
know
that's
not
usually
possible,
and
so
I
just
want
to
raise
that
up,
because
you
know
we're.
G
G
Why
I
think
it's
critically
important
that
we
have
the
most
robust
conversation
so
that
when
we
have
these
conversations
with
our
respective
constituents,
we
we
are
prepared
so
I
just
wanted
to
flag
that,
because
of
past
conversations
related
to
these
cases,
looking
forward
to
the
next
hearing
or
working
and
again
to
the
folks
who
are
watching,
including
the
officers
and
human
leadership.
Thank
you
for
your
service
and
my
goal,
along
with
everyone
else,
is
to
move
things
along
quickly.
Thank
you.
Stay
safe
and
healthy,
Thank.
B
B
But
it
would
be
good
for
me
to
figure
out
how
I
how
I
can
be
better
equipped
to
participate
in
these
things
so
that
when
I
say
something
like
I
would
like
to
know
what
other
departments
are
doing
that
I
understand
that
it
might
not
be
the
best
comment
to
make
so
just
would
be
helpful
to
know
and
also
yeah,
that's
it.
Thank
you.
Thank.
I
I
However,
we
go
I
understand
the
commitment
that
these
officers
make
in
and
being
I
mean
my
30
just
finished
my
33rd
year
as
a
city
as
a
city
employee,
so
to
it
maybe
talk
to
Julia
a
little
bit.
It's
it's
just
an
ass
questions.
You
have
you
have
all
the
department
heads
available
to
you,
call
them
up
and
ask
them
questions
get
to
have
relationships
with
them.
That's
how
you
learn
the
city.
I
Every
city
work,
not
every
city
worker,
but
when
you
get
into
pop-
and
you
start
thinking
about
your
retirement-
and
you
have
all
your
colleagues,
your
people
in
your
in
your
department,
if
we
were
in
offices
or
I,
was
in
the
print
department,
you're
sitting
there
talking
about
the
retirement
nearly
all
day
every
day.
So
that's
how
you
get
information
so
reach
out
to
department
heads,
set
up
meetings
with
department,
heads
and
pick
their
brains
because
they
are
in
charge
of
that
department.
I
They
know
everything
about
the
department
and
and
I
apologize
if
I
came
off,
as
you
know,
whatever,
whatever
do
I
didn't
mean
it
like
that,
I
just
think
that
that
that
when
we
look
at
going
to
a
hundred
percent
of
anybody's
retirement,
those
are
long-term
commitments
and
if
that
were
widespread,
if
we
just
did
were
thinking
seriously
about
something
like
this,
it's
potentially
bad
fiscal
management.
So
thank
you
good
good
hearing,
madam
chair.
This
is
still
very
difficult
for
me
to
do
on
on
camera
like
this
I'm,
not
a
big
fan
of
it.
I
I
can't
wait
to
be
back
in
the
chamber,
so
thank
you
and
counseling
asabi
George
I
appreciate
your
leadership
on
this
one.
Thank
you
have
a
good
day.
Everyone
thank.
A
L
Hi
not
much
for
me.
I
got
to
watch
the
tape
just
to
see
what
I
missed,
but
also
I
appreciate
that
it's
getting
a
second
hearing
I
do
think
when
we
deal
with
things
the
fiscal
responsibility
it
requires
that
we
be
as
thorough
as
possible.
So
I
appreciate
that
there'll
be
a
second
opportunity
to
really
get
my
my
teeth
around
whatever
is
being
discussed
and
what's
being
asked
for
and
get
all
that
information
made
available.
So
thank
you
so
much
for
that
and
I
look
forward
to
being
part
of
the
process.
So
thank
you.
A
I'll
say
something
very
brief
and
then
I'll
turn
it
over
to
the
lead
sponsor,
and
then
we
will
close
out.
Thank
you
very
much
for
your
leadership.
Counselor
asabi,
George
I.
Think.
If
anything,
we've
had
a
wonderful
opportunity
to
learn
a
great
deal
as
a
body,
because
this
doesn't
happen
very
often.
A
I
think
this
is
probably
likely
going
to
be
something
that
would
have
been
continued,
no
matter
who
brought
it
forward
and
for
how
many
people
so
I
do
appreciate
your
patience
with
us
learning
this
process
and
I
do
look
forward
to
hearing
from
the
officers
I
look
forward
to
hearing
from
the
union.
I
haven't,
as
of
today,
I
look
forward
to
talking
with
the
Retirement
Board.
If
it
anything
from
my
own
education
but
I
want
I
do
want
to
echo
all
of
my
colleagues
points.
This
is
not
a
question,
a
bravery.
A
This
is
not
a
question
of
character.
This
is
not
a
question
of
dedication
to
the
city
of
Boston
or
the
hearts
of
these
individual
officers
in
any
way,
shape
or
form.
This
is
us
learning
the
process
and
making
sure
it's.
It's
consistent.
It's
as
open
and
transparent
understanding,
the
fiscal
implications
of
a
lifetime
of
a
hundred
percent,
plus
the
very
likely
the
lifetime
of
their
spouses
at
seventy-five
percent.
If
they
don't
remarry,
that's
nothing,
that's
not
something
small
and
it's
worth
taking
the
time
to
do
it
I.
Do
it
right?
A
So
thank
you
so
much
in
your
commitment
to
do
it
right
with
us
all
and
make
sure
we
get
those
who
are
retired
and
ready
to
move
move
in
on
through
this
process.
So
that's
all
you
have
to
say,
I'll
turn
it
back
to
the
lead,
sponsor
councillor,
sabi
George,
and
then
we
will
adjourn.
Then
we
then
then
we
will
resell
that
folks,
no
word
until
next
steps
are
thank.
E
You,
madam
chair
and
again
I'm
grateful
to
the
question
and
concern
for
my
colleague,
colleagues,
especially
our
longest,
serving
member,
almost
two
decades
of
service
to
this
body
council
authority
for
his
very
specific
interest
and
requests
for
information.
Certainly
his
his
longevity
and
historical
knowledge
is
really
helpful
to
this
process
and
I
appreciate
that,
and
certainly
wish
that
we
had
this
these
requests
in
sooner
so
that
we
were
ready
to
go
ahead
today,
because
I
know
dating
back
to
the
injury
from
2004.
E
We
need
to
move
on
this,
and
these
seven
officers
deserve
that
so
I
look
forward
to
moving
quickly,
pulling
together
the
appropriate
documentation
and
doing
that
in
partnership
with
all
of
you
and
partnership
with
the
with
the
the
officers
that
were
with
the
officers
that
were
injured
and
their
representatives.
I
do
want
to
just
note
for
the
record
we
are.
This
is
our
last
formal
proceeding
before
we
head
into
the
Memorial
Day
weekend,
so
I
wish
everybody
all
of
my
colleagues,
everyone
watching
at
home.
E
Certainly
those
who
have
served
our
country
and
who
have
been
either
killed
in
action
missing
in
action
or
have
died
after
service
to
our
country,
that
they
have
a
wonderful
Memorial
Day
weekend.
I
also
want
to
note
to
the
chair
that
we
do
have
a
comment
from
our
legal
eagle
at
City
Council
in
the
chat
box.
Thank
you.
Everyone.
Thank
you,
madam
chair.
Thank.
A
You
very
much
I
will
thanks
for
that
indication.
I
will
go
ahead
and
read
that
comment
from
our
our
legal
expert
on
procedures
for
the
City
Council
Christine
O'donnell,
specifically
on
procedural
questions.
The
process
is
to
adjourn
today's
hearing,
not
recess.
You
can
have
as
many
hearings
that
are
on
the
same
docket
as
needed.
The
and
the
chair
would
only
recess
for
a
short
period
of
time
and
not
for
another
hearing.
So
we
will
adjourn
today's
hearing.
C
Other
option
for
us,
potentially
obviously
at
the
discretion
of
the
lead
sponsor
we
could
reject
without
prejudice
so
that
it
can
be
refiled
same
calendar
year,
but
they
can
be
refiled
individually,
which
might
be
a
little
knee
during
cleaner
so
that
we
take
each
officer
on
the
merits
oldest
the
date
in
terms
of
counselor
savvy
George
mentioned.
Some
of
them
are
pretty
dated.
We
can
either
start
from
the
the
oldest
date
or
we
can
start
with
the
more
serious
ones,
but
they
clearly
it's.
C
They
clearly
need
to
be
done
individually,
not
as
a
group
of
seven
and
one
way
to
accomplish
that,
as
we
could
reject
without
prejudice,
allows
the
lead
sponsor
to
refil
them
individually
in
the
same
County
again
food
for
thought.
You
can
concur
again
with
Christine,
but
I
know
that
that's
been
done
in
the
past
as
well.
Yep.
A
Well,
thank
you
very
much.
I
think
what
we'll
probably
do
again
is
continue
to
continue
the
conversation
under
how
it
is
currently
filed
and
I.
Think
at
that
point,
when
we're
going
to
go
to
a
working
session
or
if,
if
we're
going
to
get
to
the
point
where
we
we
are
clear
about
who's,
going
to
go
forward,
who's
not
and
the
lead
sponsor,
is
clear
with
the
packets
and
has
the
information
then
I
do
think
that
that
is
an
option.
That's
worth
assessing.
Thank
you
so
much
for
that.
Councillor.
Flaherty
I.