►
From YouTube: Committee on Post Audit & Oversight on March 26, 2021
Description
Docket #0220 - Hearing regarding Green and Social Bonds
A
B
B
Good
morning,
everyone
we
will
uh
virtually
gavel
to
order
on
our
hearing
today
um
in
the
city
council's
committee
on
post
audit
and
oversight,
docket
number
zero,
two
two
zero.
Regarding
green
and
social
bonds.
My
name
is
michelle
wu.
I
am
chair
of
this
committee
and
I'm
joined
by
my
colleague,
counselor
kenzie
bach.
Who
is
the
co-sponsor
on
this
hearing?
Let
me
just
make
sure:
oh
I
see
some
others
in
the
waiting
room.
Let
me
just
see
if
this.
A
B
Okay,
hello
good
morning,
so
uh
just
counselor
bach
with
us
so
far
from
our
uh
council.
Colleagues,
if
others
join
we'll
recognize
them
as
they
join
a
few
disclosures
at
the
beginning.
This
public
hearing
is
being
recorded
and
live
streamed
on
city
website.
It
will
be
rebroadcast
on
xfinity
channel
8,
rcn
channel
82
fios
channel
964..
B
We
will
take
public
testimony
throughout
the
hearing.
If
you
wish
to
testify
by
video
conference,
please
email,
cora.montrond,
m-o-n-t-r-o-n-d
at
boston.gov,
coraciora,
dot,
montrond
boston.gov
for
the
link
when
you
are
called
please
state
your
name
and
affiliation
or
residence,
and
limit
your
comments
to
no
more
than
two
minutes.
B
E
Great
thanks
so
much
counselor
wu
um
and
thanks
to
the
um
whole,
a
f
team
uh
chief
handy
and
uh
mr
steroid
and
mr
smith
for
joining
us
today.
um
I
uh
I
ended
my
night
last
night
on
a
hearing
with
chief
handy
and
and
here
we
are
in
the
morning,
so
um
it's
really
appreciate
all
your
work.
um
You
know.
I
think
that
this
is
an
opportunity
to
celebrate
the
really
major
offering
that
the
city
had
back
in
december.
E
But
there's
opportunity
to
crack
that
water
open,
so
I
think
it
would
be
programmatically
important
anyways,
but
obviously,
if
there's
actually
an
opportunity
to
also
achieve
a
pricing
benefit,
um
that's
all
to
the
better
and
uh
and
increases
our
bonding
capacity
overall,
I'm
so
excited
to
hear
more
on
that
front
and
grateful
to
councillor
wu
for
her
partnership
on
this
thanks.
Madam
chair.
B
Thank
you,
councillor,
bach,
looking
forward
to
hearing
from
our
colleagues
at
the
administration.
We
know
that
last
december
the
city
saw
its
first
ever
round
of
green
and
social
bonds
and
looking
forward
to
getting
into
the
details
of
that,
as
well
as
understanding
what
the
future
plans
will
be
and
and
projections
of
how
we
could
use
this
tool
moving
forward
to
even
um
continue
deepening
our
commitment
to
affordable
housing
and
climate
resiliency.
B
These
our
debt
limits,
these
specific
types
of
bonds
and
what
we
could
do
moving
forward.
So
at
this
point
I'll
hand
it
over.
We
have
three
uh
speakers
who
are
confirmed
as
panelists
this
morning.
Of
course,
our
chief
financial
officer,
emma
handy
um
our
uh
senior
deputy
treasurer,
drew
smith,
oh
justin
as
well.
Okay,
so
four
um
emma
drew
justin
as
well
as
david
levy
from
the
center
for
sustainable
enterprise
and
regional
competitiveness
at
umass
boston.
B
F
Great,
um
thank
you,
chairman
woman,
um
nice
to
see
you
all
again.
It
was
really
nice
to
be
with
you
last
night
and
uh
pleased
to
be
back
again
this
morning
talking
about
something
um
that
is
as
exciting
and
positive.
As
as
our
conversation
last
night,
around
cpa
grants,
um
I'm
really
excited
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
um
the
2020
uh
bond
sale
for
the
city.
um
I
would
be
remiss
if
I
didn't
start
by
just
um
extending
my
appreciation
and
gratitude
to
the
city's
finance
team.
F
uh
The
former
mayor
walsh
like
to
say
that
this
was
the
best
finance
team
in
the
country,
and
I
agree
with
him
because
of
the
people
that
join
me
on
this
panel
today
drew
smith
and
justin
starrett.
They
are
phenomenal.
um
They
put
together
an
incredible
deal
in
december,
um
a
combination
of
um
an
excellent
uh
many
years
of
excellent
capital
planning,
as
well
as
really
strategic
um
sort
of
go
to
market
strategy
for
the
city
and
um
we'll
I'll
allow
jerusalem
to
talk
more
about
that.
F
uh
After
me,
he
was
the
architect
of
the
deal
and
really
put
together
a
lot
of
the
great
uh
principles
around
um
the
green
bonds
and
the
social
bonds
that
we
will
talk
more
about
and
how
that
was
sort
of
a
competitive
advantage
for
us
this
this
round.
um
So
many
thanks
to
justin
and
to
drew
to
the
teams
at
treasury
and
obm
who
support
them
and
all
of
the
folks
across
administration
and
finance
that
have
lent
their
expertise
and
their
time
to
making
the
city
of
boston
such
a
strong,
financially
managed
city.
It.
Really.
F
What
that
debt
limit
looks
like
and
what
the
possibilities
are
um
for
growth
over
time.
um
So
maybe
we'll
we'll
take
those
um
points
and
questions
as
follow-up
from
from
you
counselors,
um
and
you
know
I
just
want
to
know
that
um
there
were
a
lot
of
really
wonderful
things
about
the
sale
it
was.
It
was
a
very
positive
event
for
the
city
of
boston.
F
So
it
made
sense
based
on
the
information
that
we
had
to
sort
of
package
them
as
a
green
bond,
but
certainly
prior
bond
sales
have
allowed
us
to
fund
green
projects
across
the
city
um
and
uh
for
several
years
we've
committed
10
of
our
capital
plan
to
those
green
projects
um
and
so
just
important
to
know
that,
while
it
was
the
first
time
we
did
the
bond,
certainly
not
the
first
time
we
funded
those
those
great
projects.
So
um
with
that,
I'm
going
to
turn
it
over
to
drew.
G
Great
thanks
very
much
emma
um
and
thanks
very
much
counselors
for
giving
us
the
opportunity
to
talk
about
this
talking
about
bonds
is
a
great
way
uh
to
end
a
week.
uh
For
me
at
least
it's
it's
one
of
our
favorite
subjects
down
here
in
treasury,
and
particularly
now,
since
we
did
what
we
did
with
this
last
transaction.
So,
as
you
mentioned
in
december
of
2020,
uh
the
series
or
the
city
issued
its
2020
series
of
bonds
um
with
this
transaction.
G
We
accomplished
a
lot
of
the
standard
things
that
you
want
to
accomplish
with
the
transaction,
but
with
great
success.
So
we
achieved
a
diversified,
coupon
and
maturity
structure.
We
achieved
a
record
low,
true
interest
cost
at
1.22
percent
for
the
city,
and
we
locked
in
over
11
million
dollars
in
debt
service
savings
that
we'll
experience
over
the
next
13
years.
G
I
will
say
that
um
we
also
did
that
with
refinancing
metrics
that
were
twice
as
good
as
what
you
would
normally
consider
a
really
good
deal
in
a
standard
market
environment,
but
I
think
it's
important
to
note
that,
as
you've
mentioned
here,
that
we
did
something
different
with
this
transaction.
uh
With
this
deal,
we
also
advanced
uh
the
calls
of
residents
access
to
these
investments,
to
environmentally
focused
finance
and
to
equity,
and
I'd
like
to
talk
to
you
a
little
bit
about
that.
G
So
for
the
first
time
in
what
we
estimate
to
be
20
years,
uh
the
city
issued
its
bonds
through
a
negotiated
method
of
sale.
This
allowed,
for
the
first
time
in
just
as
long
small,
individual
investors
access
to
one
of
the
city's
primary
offerings
and
to
participate
directly
in
those.
In
fact,
the
orders
of
local
individual
investors
were
given
priority
ahead
of
those
of
the
larger
institutional
investors
that
frequently
uh
dominate
competitive
offerings.
G
For
the
first
time,
the
city
issued
social
bonds,
as
you've
mentioned,
uh
with
proceeds
supporting
phase
one
of
the
bunker
oil
housing
development,
a
project
undertaken
in
conjunction
with
the
bha,
which
is
developing
new
units
of
affordable
and
mixed
rate
housing.
The
proceeds
of
these
bonds
will
also
support
the
renovation
of
buildings
in
various
elderly
and
disabled
housing
communities.
G
We
believe
that
this
is
the
best
and
quickest
way
to
make
issue
in
green
bonds,
not
simply
a
matter
of
policy,
preference
or
principle,
uh
but
a
clear
dollars
and
cents
decision
and
a
fiduciary
requirement
for
cities
and
states.
uh
Ultimately,
driving
up
the
cost
of
green
bonds
will
drive
down
the
cost
of
green
infrastructure,
and
we
think
that
that's
the
single
best
fastest
way
to
get
more
grain
done.
And
with
that
I'm
happy
to
answer
any
questions.
You
have.
D
Sure
I'll
just
uh
very
quickly
add
um
from
a
capital
spending.
Well
first,
I
want
to
say
I
think
emma
gave
drew
all
the
credit
he
should
get,
not
only
all
the
credit,
but
all
the
awards
for
this.
For
this
deal,
I
think
nationally.
I
think
this
is
um
an
unprecedented
type
of
deal
for
the
sort
of
a
municipal
government
to
take
this
on.
It's
also,
I
think,
as
you
mentioned,
really
combining
three
things
all
at
once,
one
a
new
bank
focused
on
sort
of
equitable
uh
deal.
D
D
We
had
planned
to
borrow
somewhere
around
200
million
dollars
and
we
achieved
that
goal
for
the
2020
deal
that
we
just
had.
um
It
is
the
largest
plan
in
history
and
it
certainly
supports
uh
sort
of
robust
spending
going
forward.
um
I
know
one
of
the
the
questions
out
there
is
is
how
does
the
5.4
of
sort
of
debt
as
a
percentage
of
the
capital
plan,
I'm
sorry
of
the
operating
budget
compared
to
our
seven
percent
threshold?
The
capital
plan
actually
budgets
for
and
plans
to
fully
extend
that
seven
percent?
D
uh
The
difference
is
that
when
we
actually
go
to
market,
we
are
sort
of
legally
required
to
only
spend
it
on
projects
that
are
uh
either
in
the
ground
or
sort
of
that
have
immediate
spending
in
the
near
future.
As
many
of
you
know,
the
capital
plan
is
dependent
on
a
lot
of
different
factors
when
it
comes
to
um
you
know,
actually,
building
the
projects,
designing
the
projects,
planning
the
projects
permitting
the
projects
and
many
of
the
the
really
ambitious
plans
we
have.
D
A
great
example
would
be
the
sort
of
long
island
bridge
they
run
into
challenges
when
it
comes
to
delivering
those
projects
and
and
they're
oftentimes
challenges
that
are
far
outside
the
city's
control.
So
we
have
a
fully
planned
seven
percent
uh
capital
plan
and
um
it's
on
a
yearly
basis
and
honestly,
a
monthly
basis
that
we're
reevaluating,
where
we
are
relative
to
the
seven
percent
threshold
um
and
and
we
are
sort
of
always
trying
to
maximize
it,
and
I
think
that
that
will
be
the
goal
going
forward
into
into
future
capital
years.
B
H
Unmute
there
we
are
just
to
introduce
myself.
My
name
is
david
levy,
professor
in
the
college
of
management
at
the
university
of
massachusetts,
boston
and
also
one
of
the
founders
of
the
sustainable
solutions
lab
and
have
been
very
closely
involved
with
the
climate
ready,
boston
project
which
university
massachusetts
and
the
bar
foundation
have
been
working
closely
with
the
city
over
the
last
few
years.
um
I'll
share
the
screen,
and
hopefully
you
can
see
this.
If
I
go
to
full
screen.
H
There
we
go
and
so
yeah.
This
is
the
report
that
I
led
the
financing
climate
resilience
where
and
the
focus
here
was
climate
resilience,
but
speaking
with
tally,
robbins,
uh
you
know
she
suggested
that
the
intersection
here
was
really
important,
and
so
I'm
going
to
try
and
bring
out
some
of
these
connections.
H
H
H
H
um
It
also
doesn't
account
for
the
kind
of
systemic
city-wide
impacts
that
we
see
when
there
are
major
disasters
and
the
communications
and
the
power
and
the
transportation
go
down.
um
This
is
based
more
on
insurance
estimates
of
building
by
building
anyway.
The
broad
picture
is
uh
this
is
somewhat
of
an
underestimate
and
it's
an
average.
H
The
lower
income
neighborhoods-
um
and
I
won't
have
got
time
to
go
into
all
the
details.
There's
there's
more
in
the
report,
but
under
different
scenarios
you
know
the
one
percent
flood
the
10
flood,
but
what
we're
realizing
is
that
what
we
used
to
think
of
a
one
percent
flood,
something
that
might
happen
one
one
in
a
hundred
years.
Those
floods
are
actually
happening
every
ten
years
or
every
three
years,
so
we
have
to
recalibrate
what
these
percentages
actually
are.
And
uh
you
know
we
don't
have
all
that
information,
because
it's
changing
so
quickly.
H
um
I
didn't
want
to
emphasize
the
impact
on
municipal
finances
here
again
of
doing
nothing
of
all
the
various
costs
that
the
city
would
likely
incur
in
the
event
of
a
major
flood
we've
seen
minor
ones.
We
haven't
seen
the
big
one
as
it
were,
not
just
for
the
repairs,
the
buildings
but
the
emergency
services.
Some
of
the
things
that
weren't
counted
in
these
in
those
assessments
were
the
lost
tax
and
fee
revenues
from
um
from
buildings
that
are
lost,
and
that
was
that's
been
very
significant.
H
After
katrina
and
sandy
you
know
in
new
orleans
and
new
york
lost
significant
chunks
of
their
tax
base.
Loss
of
inward
investment.
People
aren't
going
to
be
investing
here
if
they're
worried
about
their
supply
chains
and
their
transportation
being
disrupted,
people
are
likely
to
leave
the
longer
term
disruption
to
business
um
so
and
what
for
the
people
in
charge
of
capital
planning,
it's
important
to
note
that
s
p
and
mood
is
the
bond
rating
agencies
are
beginning
to
take
note
of
climate
risks.
H
um
S
p
saying
that
that
what
the
climate
risk
is
likely
to
have
a
much
stronger
impact,
they're
going
to
be
assessing
at
the
city
and
state
level
uh
climate
risks
as
they
come
to
bond
ratings.
So
if
we
want
to
sustain
our
aaa
bond
rating
and
keep
those
interest
rates
low,
it's
going
to
be
important
to
address
these
things
proactively.
H
um
Part
of
what
I'm
summarizing
here
is
the
amount
of
investment
that's
needed
to
protect
these
areas.
This
is
an
example
from
east
boston.
The
picture
at
the
top,
the
part
of
climate
ready
boston
has
been
going,
has
been
a
matter
of
going
district
by
district
and
doing
some
planning
and
getting
some
estimates
of
what
the
costs
for
some
of
the
major
projects
to
protect
these
areas
will
be-
and
this
is
primarily
from
sea
level,
rise.
Storm
surge
right,
we're
not
talking
about
energy
efficiency
and
getting
to
zero
carbon
in
boston.
H
If
we
can
design
housing
and
public
spaces
from
the
outset
that
are
resilient
to
climate
change,
that
are
energy
efficient,
it's
going
to
be
much
cheaper
and
we
can
design
by
and
for
the
communities
to
design
in
community
resilience
and
in
a
moment,
we'll
see
this
important
link
between
community
resilience
and
the
physical
resilience
of
the
infrastructure
um
for
retrofits.
It's
important
to
bring
these
together
as
well
in
terms
of
reducing
the
costs,
because
retrofitting
just
resilience
or
energy
efficiency
by
themselves
can
be
relatively
expensive.
H
But
the
big
saving
here,
one
way
in
which
it
helps
to
make
housing
more
affordable,
is
the
reduction
in
utility
bills
as
well
as
insurance.
You
know
the
green
bonds
reduce
interest
rates
a
little
bit
and
you
know
that's
important,
but
the,
but
the
bigger
impact
in
in
the
city
is
going
to
keep
is
by
keeping
the
city
affordable,
vibrant,
economically,
as
well
in
terms
of
community
and
by
reducing
costs
both
for
businesses
and
for
individuals
to
be
living
here
by
keeping
energy
costs
low.
H
So
there's
this
opportunity
to
revitalize
the
city,
its
infrastructure-
and
we
shouldn't
forget
that
there
is
to
the
extent
to
which
there's
local
investment
here
we
should
focus
as
well
on
local
employment
and
workforce
training.
Seeing
this
as
a
whole
package
of
investment.
I
know
the
the
green
and
climate
bonds
are
one.
Sorry,
the
green
and
social
bonds
are
one
piece
of
that.
I
also
wanted
to
emphasize
this
link
between
climate
resilience
and
community
cohesion
right
when
communities
are
washed
away.
You've
got
this
little
picture
of
a
house.
H
As
I
said,
there's
quite
a
lot
of
academic
research
showing
that
in
the
various
disasters
that
we've
seen
from
chicago
to
new
orleans
and
new
york,
new
jersey
area,
that
the
more
the
communities
that
are
more
cohesive
actually
survive
much
better
and
bounce
back
much
more
quickly
and
that's
actually
a
lot
cheaper
to
do
in
some
ways
than
the
physical
infrastructure.
Although
it
does
take
more
concerted
effort,
um
I
wanted
to
emphasize
as
well
the
return
on
investment
from
resilience,
investments
and
green
buildings.
So
this
is
the
value
of
the
of
uh
of
being
green.
H
H
It
only
adds
another
couple
of
percent
to
the
cost
of
the
building,
um
but
they
do
generate
a
rent
premium,
and
this
is
talking
a
little
bit
more
about
the
commercial
sector,
perhaps
of
anywhere
between
6
and
12,
as
well
as
lowering
insurance
and
energy
costs.
So
there's
a
very
strong
business
case
for
building
um
multi-family,
residential
and
commercial
buildings
green
from
the
outset,
and
that's
integrating
climate
resilience,
the
physical
resilience
with
energy
efficiency.
H
The
case
isn't
quite
as
good
for
retrofits
or
for
district
level
investments
which
is,
but
we
do
have
decades
to
be
doing
this.
I
mean
this
is
obviously
a
lot.
You
know,
rebuilding
the
city
isn't
uh
just
a
short-term
issue
um
over
here
on
the
left.
These
are.
This
is
just
excerpted
from
some
of
these
district
level
reports.
I
just
wanted
to
draw
your
attention
to
the
very
high
benefit
cost
ratios
of
investing
in
resilience.
They
do
the
estimated
costs.
H
The
projected
benefit
in
terms
of
buildings
that
won't
be
washed
away,
won't
be
won't
be
damaged.
If
we
do
these
resilience
investments,
but
one
thing:
that's
really
important
to
draw
your
attention
to
you'll
note
that
in
downtown
in
the
downtown
area,
we
end
up
with
a
very,
very
high
benefit
to
cost
ratio,
a
much
lower
ratio
in
the
the
more
modest
neighborhoods
of
the
city,
and
what
I
want
to
point
out
is
that
we
shouldn't
just
rely
purely
on
cost
benefit
analysis
because
it
gets
biased
towards
the
wealthier,
more
affluent
areas
of
the
city.
H
We
also
have
to
factor
in
that
we
want
to
protect
the
health
and
buildings
and
communities
in
lower
income
neighborhoods,
because
the
benefit
cost
ratios
aren't
going
to
look
so
good.
The
same
cost
of
protecting
a
neighborhood
is
going
to
show
a
much
higher
benefit
in
the
wealthier
neighborhoods,
and
so
we
could
potentially
get
misguided
there
into
only
protecting
the
wealthy
areas.
um
The
report
that
that
I
led
does
compare
all
the
different
types
of
financing.
I'm
not
going
to
go
into
this
in
detail.
H
H
H
On
the
one
hand,
there's
fairness,
which
means
that
the
cost
burden
should
broadly
reflect
the
benefits,
provided
you
know,
bonds,
don't
necessarily
achieve
that
everybody
we're
all
paying
to
for
the
finance
on
the
bonds
and
those
who
are
more
protected
near
the
ocean,
aren't
necessarily
paying
any
more
so
there's
a
fairness
issue,
there's
an
equity
issue
which
means
that
the
cost
burden
ought
to
reflect
ability
to
pay,
and
that
comes
a
little
bit
through
property
through
property
taxes,
perhaps
and
and
uh
the
cost
of
rent.
uh
But
it's
relatively
indirect.
H
One
of
the
main
suggestions
in
the
report
was
to
spread
the
cost
burden
uh
through
bonds,
which
are
obviously
the
mainstay
for
this,
but
also
to
be
thinking
about
different
levels.
Some
state
funding,
on
the
one
hand,
but
also
also
at
the
district
level
districts
which
are
in
the
front
line
of
being
primarily
protected,
should
also
have
some
funding
mechanism
that
would
kick
in
for
particularly
for
the
resilience
funding,
and
so
we
need
to
think
about
financing
mechanisms
that
don't
exacerbate
the
inequalities.
H
That
is,
we
can
keep
the
costs
down
for
doing
that
by
making
by
ensuring
that
the
city
is
resilient
and
it's,
but
we
can
potentially
issue
insurance
that
will
will
ensure
that
these
projects
get
completed
and
that
the
city
will
be
protected
and
will
be
financially
secure
and
that
will
might
also
be
able
to
help
to
keep
the
cost
of
financing
down
so
there's
a
mutual
benefit
by
com
by
combining
insurance
and
resilience
um
anyway.
The
report
goes
into
that
in
more
detail.
B
E
Great,
thank
you
so
much
counselor
wu.
um
I
guess
a
first
question
um
and
it's
really
for
the
whole
team
is,
um
you
know,
I'm
curious,
um
drew
you
mentioned
sort
of
reaching
the
lead
silver
with
one
of
these
buildings
and
I'm
sort
of
curious
in
understanding
like
does
the
market
yet
have
a
clearly
established
standard
for
what
counts
as
green,
or
are
we
kind
of
in
the
middle
of
helping
to
create
that
or
how
did
you
sort
of
land
there.
G
So
we'll
say
that
the
market's
getting
there
it
knows
it,
it
can
more
clearly
tell
you
what's
not
green.
We
do
know
that
lead
silver
does
meet
the
general
standard
that
most
certifiers
will
accept
when
they're
determining
whether
on
the
screen
or
not.
um
So
that
was
the
we
took
a
little
bit
of
guidance
from
kestrel,
as
we
were
doing
that
just
to
double
check
ourselves
to
make
sure
that
we
were
including
projects
that
would
pass
muster
uh
one
of
the
reasons.
G
Well,
uh
the
25
million
dollars
in
green
bonds
actually
supported
32
million
dollars
in
spending,
and
that
was
spread
over
uh
a
number
of
different
projects.
The
thing
that
uh
you'll
find
in
common
with
all
those
projects
is
that
they
really
represent
the
deepest
shade
of
green,
uh
that
we
had
that
were
shovel
ready
and,
as
emma
had
mentioned
earlier,
we're
already
we've
been
doing
a
lot
of
green
projects
already,
but
we
were
trying
to
accomplish
a
couple
of
different
things
with
this
green
bond
transaction.
G
E
Between
kind
of
you
know,
there's
there's
green
projects
that
you
know
reach
green
building
standards
and
that's
great,
because
those
buildings
are
going
to
be
more
resilient
in
the
long
term,
and
we
know
where
we
need
to
go
with
emissions.
um
But
then
there's
also
like
you
know
the
kind
of
green
infrastructure
projects
that
um
that
really
move
the
needle
more
dramatically
in
terms
of
like
actually
reaching
our
climate
ready,
boston
goals,
and
it
seems
to
me
like
I
want
us
tagging
everything
we
think
the
market
will
give
us
a
pricing
benefit
on
as
green.
F
Can
I
just
jump
in
there
counselor,
because
I
think
that's
a
great
point
and
I
I
think
the
the
facilitation
of
revenue
to
support
our
green
projects
is
obviously
a
really.
It
is
the
reason
why
the
green
bonds
are
important,
but
they
do
not
sort
of
supplant
or
rise
above
the
green
goals
of
the
city
of
boston
right.
F
E
Where
sort
of
our
benchmark
is
is
ten
percent
of
our
portfolio
this
and
then
you
know,
and
and
so
we're
kind
of
using
we're
using
what
I
like
a
sort
of
low
bar
for
what
counts
towards
that
ten
percent,
because
obviously
the
real
question
isn't:
are
we
doing
10?
The
real
question
is:
can
we
get
there
from
here
in
terms
of
our
climate
goals?
So
I
just
wanted
to
register
that
if.
H
F
Great
thanks-
and
I
just
think
the
example
of
boston
arts
academy
right
um
we
were
going
to
build
western
arts
academy,
and
so
um
the
reason
it's
a
green
project
is
because,
rather
than
just
build
it
to
the
bare
minimum,
it
is
going
to
be
a
spectacular
project
in
many
many
different
ways,
including
um
you
know
at
least
silver
lead,
and
I
know
that
there's
hopes
that
they
can
get
to
a
higher
rate.
And
so
the
reason
that
that
works
in
this
context
is
because
the
project
was
going
to
happen
already.
D
If
I
could
just
add
quickly,
it's
it's
also
about
context
and
what
the
city
is
building
versus
what
the
market
generally
probably
needs
to
build.
A
lot
of
what
um
uh
mr
levy
mentioned
was
was
stuff,
that's
going
to
involve
the
state
and
private
enterprise.
The
city
is
responsible
for
maintaining
and
building
its
own
assets.
D
You
know
I
could
see
it
in
your
background,
the
beautiful
uh
columbia
point
and
carson
beach.
Those
are
all
state
assets
at
the
end
of
the
day,
so
we're
going
to
need
both
private
and
state
participation
and,
frankly,
probably
federal
participation
in
order
to
make
the
vast
investments
that
are
going
to
be
needed
to
protect
that
and
we're
sort
of
just
only
able
to
do
what
we're
able
to
do
with
our
with
our
own
assets.
E
And
our
and
our
big
pieces
down
that
end
on
these
fronts
are
going
to
be
moakly
park
and
the
housing
developments.
um
I
I
one
more
question
madam
chair.
I
do
have
further,
but
I'll
yield
after
that,
but
just
uh
to
um
justin
the
point
about
sort
of
you
know
we
budget
for
seven
percent
and
we
don't
get
there.
I
guess
the
the
place
that,
like
that
I
find
myself
on
that
is
kind
of
well.
You
know
if
I
were.
E
If
I
were
admitting
a
class
to
a
college,
I
would,
I
would
admit,
a
bunch
more
people
than
I
had
spots
and
I
would
have
sort
of
like
long-term
historical
analysis
of
how
many
of
these
people
are
going
to
take
my
spots
and
be
kind
of
playing
a
game
there
to
get
as
close
as
possible.
Similarly,
I
find
myself
wondering
why,
when
we
have
the
the
bonding
sort
of
authority
and
capacity
with
our
policy
limit,
we're.
A
E
D
Sure
um
good
great
points,
uh
let
me
take
a
step
back
in
the
capital
plan.
We
plan
to
ramp
up
borrowing.
So
just
let
me
give
you
a
little
bit
of
context
in
in
this
last
capital
plan
uh
between
fy21
and
2025.
We
plan
on
ramping
up
capital,
borrowing
on
the
geosite,
from
about
200
million
to
about
280
million,
which
is
a
tremendous
increase
in
the
amount
of
borrowing
we
would
be
doing
year
over
year.
D
We
have
a
sort
of
a
fiduciary
responsibility
to
our
credit
rating
agencies
and
to
our
bond
holders
that
we
can't
go
out
there
and
sort
of
even
sort
of
signal,
necessarily
that
we're
going
to
exceed
our
bond
threshold,
because
then
that
puts
us
at
risk
for
either
having
to
delay
a
project,
that's
in
the
ground
right.
So
all
of
a
sudden.
D
If
all
those
projects
hit
at
the
same
time-
and
uh
you
know
we
had-
we
would
have
to
choose
sort
of
between
which
projects
we're
going
to
stop
mid,
mid
stream
versus
which
ones
we're
going
to
continue.
um
So
we'd
want
to
continue
to
do
that.
With
that
said,
we
do
make
use
of
all
the
tools
in
our
toolbox
to
try
to
you
know
maximize
that
percent
threshold
within
sort
of
the
existing
revenue
limits
we
have
so
by
by
that
I
mean
we
sort
of
offset
savings
for
their
new
boston
trust.
D
We
sort
of
offset
savings
that
we
know.
um
You
know
whether
it's
uh
true
uh
pricing
benefits
or
whether
it's
the
you
know
the
market
generally
because
of
our
aaa
bond
rating.
I
think
we're
certainly
investing
about
as
much
as
possible.
The
other
flip
side
of
the
equation
is
is,
as
you
mentioned,
capacity
to
actually
implement
those
projects,
and
there
is
certainly
um
always
a
need
for
more
project
managers
and
we've
worked
really
closely
with
both
pfd,
but
also
parks
and
transportation,
to
get
more
bodies
to
deliver
more
projects.
D
The
city
is
just
also
sort
of
still
coming
out
of
what
was
a
sort
of
a
dynamic
in
the
2010s
or
right
at
the
last
recession,
where
we,
basically
the
city,
made
a
decision
to
stop
spending
on
the
capital
plan,
basically
or
sort
of
drastically
reduce
what
we
were
planning
to
spend
and
it's
taken
basically
the
last
decade
to
build
up
that
capacity,
both
from
a
sort
of
a
project
management
perspective,
but
also
just
a
you
know.
We
can't
have
10
libraries
off
offline
at
one
time.
D
D
Imagine
having
you
know,
traffic
in
that
in
that
capacity,
so
we
are
working
on
that
and
that's
sort
of
been
a
priority
is
to
sort
of
grow
the
capacity
to
deliver
those
projects.
But
it's
always
a
balancing
act
right
and
it's
always
trying
to
determine
how
much
we
can
get
done
with
the
legal
limits
and
how
much
we
can
get
done
with
sort
of
our
financing
ability
and
and
we're
certainly
trying
to
push
the
nemo
on
that.
F
Right
can
I
just
add
one
thing
I'll
be
brief.
uh
I
just
want
to
underline.
I
think,
those
points
by
justin
that
that
um
we
are
very
much
in
that
phase
of
of
getting
to
that
right
balance
to
be
at
the
seven
percent
right
to
justin's
point.
It's
taken
many
many
years
to
do
that,
and
these
last
several
years
in
particular,
we
have
very
intentionally
um
added
resources
to
be
able
to
be
um
sort
of
hovering
at
much
closer
to
that
seven
percent.
F
But
exactly
to
your
um
point,
uh
counselor,
if
we
go
over
the
seven
percent,
which
is
a
risk
right,
that
um
the
ability
to
come
back
under
is
a
real
challenge,
so
that
multi-year
look
is
exactly
what
needs
to
be
applied,
because
we
don't
want
to
have
to
stop
projects
in
the
middle
and
leave
holes
in
the
ground,
because
we've
exceeded
our
uh
responsible
borrowing,
which
has
obviously
detrimental
effects
down
the
line.
Now
seven
percent
is
eminently
achievable.
We
want
to
get
there
we're
going
to
get
there.
F
The
types
of
goals
that
we're
talking
about
on
resiliency
in
boston
are
going
to
require
massive
federal
infusion
of
resources,
a
ton
of
collaboration
with
the
state
lots
of
participation,
as
the
professor
said,
from
private
industry
right
through
things
like
um
possibly
bids,
and
things
like
that.
So
I
think
it's
a
it's
a
mosaic
of
resources.
Certainly
that
will
help
us
meet
these
goals.
A
B
I
I
F
um
We
are
very
much
restricted
to
affordable
housing
and
actually
we've
we've
only
just
dipped
our
toe
into
that
in
the
in
the
last
year
or
so,
um
and
we
have
done
that
through
our
partnership
with
the
bha,
um
to
help
them
to
renovate
and
bring
back
online
um
new
units
um
for
um
for
developments
that
are
uh
definitely
past
their
their
prime
and
are
desperately
in
need
of
some
rehabilitation
or
just
entirely
new
construction
for
their
residents.
um
And
so
that
is
really
our
focus.
We
work
closely
with
bha
on
that.
F
um
We've
dedicated
um
a
great
deal
of
resources
uh
both
between
the
city's
capital
plan,
um
the
winthrop
square
garage,
as
well
as
um
the
projected
future
sale
of
the
lafayette
garage,
will
all
allow
us
to
invest
uh
with
bha
um
to
do
these
types
of
projects
with
them.
um
So
it
is
definitely
um
a
sort
of
limited
way
in
which
we
can.
We
can
uh
generate
resources
um
for
housing
because
we
are
so
restricted
and
certified,
um
but
I
would
defer
to
our
colleagues.
F
Thank
you.
um
uh
I'm
certainly
happy
to
follow
up
with
bha
and
get
you
answers
um
counseling
about
sort
of
how
they
construct
these
large
development
deals,
because
they
are
obviously
very
large
and
complex,
um
uh
and
actually
maybe
kenzie
would
like
to
weigh
in
here
and
and
add,
but
I
do
know
that
the
bha
has
has
participated
in
this
with
the
city
on
some
of
our
contracting
reforms
and
thinking
about
disparities
and
and
doing
that
work.
Alongside
of
us.
I
I
F
F
We
are
relatively
limited
in
our
ability
to
spend
money
beyond
what
our
city-owned
parcels
so
most
of
our
affordable
housing
funding
does
not
come
from
our
capital
budget.
Historically,
none
of
it
has
come
from
our
capital
budget.
It
is
very
new
that
that
we've
put
any
of
our
money
into
affordable
housing,
and
we've
really
only
done
that
with
bha,
because
they
are
never
another
governmental
partner
and
that's
what
allows
us
to
to
do
that.
J
J
And
I
know
it
in
terms
of
what
properties
assets
the
city
can
actually
invest
in.
um
Can
you
just
clarify
for
me
uh
which
projects
are
eligible
and
are
potentially
eligible
and
which
would
be
excluded?
Is
it
really
just
school
buildings
and
and
possibly
housing
and
partnership
with
bha?
Are
there
other
infrastructures
uh
projects
that
that
would
would
qualify.
F
F
G
G
um
The
question
of
whether
or
not
we
as
a
city
in
the
commonwealth
of
massachusetts
can
issue
bones,
for
a
specific
purpose
has
a
lot
to
do
with
what
the
state
constitution
allows
us
to
do.
The
primary
rule
is
that
it
does
have
to
be
for
a
public
purpose,
but
there
are
still
restrictions
within
that
as
justin
emma
had
indicated.
G
This
is
really
the
first
time
that
we've
done
it
for
affordable
housing,
even
though
we
can
um
we
are
allowed
to
under
the
constitution
bond
for
affordable
housing
uh
when
you
get
a
little
bit
further
out
than
that,
it
becomes
really
more
of
a
matter
of
getting
an
opinion
from
your
bond
council.
So
we
work
really
closely
with
them
on
determining
that,
I'm
not
a
constitutional
scholar,
so
I
wouldn't
be
able
to
um
say
with
any
degree
of
certainty
how
far
we
could.
J
I'm
wondering
would
that
agency
be
also
qualify
for
these
uh
bonds
or
is
that
is
that
and
I'm
not
I'm,
I'm
still
not
clear
about
the
relationship
between
the
boston,
water
and
stir
and
the
actual
city
as
well.
You
know,
I
know
it's
sort
of
decoupled
years
ago,
but
um
how
that
relationship
would
play
out
in
this
scenario
with
regard
to
investment
and
green
infrastructure,.
F
Yeah,
thank
you.
That's
a
great
question.
um
Water
and
sewer
has
their
own
capital
plan
funded
by
their
own
revenue
sources,
um
although
I
will
say
that
chief
cook
and
um
chief
osgood
in
his
former
role
um
work
very
closely
with
water
and
sewer
on
things
like
storm
water
management,
green
infrastructure,
etc.
So
they
water
and
sewer
is
managing
their
own.
D
I
just
double
down.
We
do
work
very
closely
with
them
on
some.
There
are
some
intersections
of
city
projects
and
water
and
sewer
projects
like
if
we
were
to
potentially
use
a
city
park
as
a
sort
of
uh
retainer
for
flood
overflow
or
water
overflow.
That
is
a
green
solution
to
a
water
and
sewer
problem.
That
also
has
the
benefit
of
sort
of
supplying
a
park
with
open
space
and
climate
resilience.
So
I
think
that
we
definitely
partner
with
them.
D
I'm
looking
outside
my
window
right
now
at
city
hall,
plaza
where
we
are
going
to
have
a
um
a
robust
sort
of
runoff
program
with
one
that
we've
partnered
with
water
and
sewer,
where
we're
sort
of
dedicating
the
vast
majority
of
funding
and
they're
going
to
contribute
some
funding
to
help
with
some
stormwater
runoff
there.
So
we
definitely
partnered
closely
with
them,
but
emma's
exactly
right.
They
have
their
own
capital
authority
and
their
own
bonding
authority
that
they
use
their
own
revenue
to
um
to
go
out
to
market
and
buy
every
year.
J
So
um
and
then
you
know,
you
know
I've
nelson
brighton,
I
think
stormwater
management
we're
not
going
to
be
in
india
with
sea
water,
yet
so
storm
water
management
and
then
also
the
heat
island
effect
so
um
retro
fittings
schools.
Is
it
more
feasible
to
build
new
schools
than
to
retro
retrofit
older
schools?
Some
of
them
are
100
years
old,
not
the
most
energy
efficient
and
certainly
not
well
insulated
from
the
terms
of
heat.
I
think
the
heat
challenges
are
more
of
a
challenge
than
the
cold
challenges
um
and
and
air
air
quality.
J
F
F
They
are,
as
you
mentioned
very
old,
and
therefore
the
space
layout
is
typically
not
advantageous,
for
um
you
know
the
types
of
communities
that
that
we
sort
of
want
to
build
in
our
in
our
schools,
and
so
um
if
we
were,
if
we
had
the
option
of
just
retrofitting,
from
sort
of
an
energy
and
climate
standpoint
a
school
so
that
it
was
modernized
in
that
way
and
it
worked
for
a
school
community.
I
think
that's
that
would
be
very
attractive
for
the
city
but
oftentimes.
F
Vacant
buildings
et
cetera,
I
mean
it's,
it's
bps
has
a
a
difficult
task
in
terms
of
figuring
out
just
how
to
manage
these
things
for
their
schools,
um
but
I
think
um
you
know
it
is
sort
of
within
the
broader
context
of
like
what
is
the
need
for
um
for
the
community
as
as
a
whole
and
then
as
we
as
we
do
build
new
buildings.
We
obviously
are
including
these
climate
standards
as
part
of
it.
J
F
J
A
D
uh
Quickly,
add
on
that,
um
I
think
we
are
trying
to
be
as
ambitious
and
possible
with
where
we're
dedicating
city
resources.
At
the
end
of
the
day,
though,
that's
sort
of
an
incremental
cost,
above
and
beyond
what
we've
already
put
into
the
baa,
for
example,
which
I
I'm
going
to
get
my
numbers
on,
I
think,
is
125
150
million
school
building
that
is
sort
of
less
money
that
we
would
then
be
able
to
dedicate
towards
other
retrofits
and
other
school
buildings
or
other.
D
D
um
I
I
would
say
that
it
is
you
know,
while
it
is
a,
uh
I
would
say,
it's
probably
lower
on
the
end
of
the
lead
certification
scale
we
didn't
have
to
do
that
uh
at
all,
and
I
think
getting
to
that
is
is
going
to
be
a
real
indicator
of
our
sort
of
uh
our
ability
and
our
willingness
to
invest
in
green.
I
think
it's
um
you
know
it's
all
about
going
to
be
balancing
priorities.
I
would
go
back
to
your
earlier
comment
about.
D
You
know
whether
it's
new
schools
versus
retrofits
we've
been
investing
pretty
heavily
in
upgrading
windows
and
boilers
and
and
energy
efficiency
at
schools
already
working
in
close
partnership
with
the
school
building
authority
and
their
arp
program.
um
We
also
view
the
renew
boston
trust
where
we've
sort
of
focused
a
lot
on
other
city
buildings,
whether
they're,
you
know
bcui,
centers
or
libraries
or
fire
stations.
On
on
that
first
phase.
D
We
view
the
renew
boston
trust
as
really
the
avenue
to
get
into
as
many
buildings
as
possible
within
city
government,
um
including
the
125
schools
that
are
out
there.
So
I
think
it's
um
there
are
certain
they're
going
to
be
certain
trade-offs
that
we
have
to
make
along
the
way
for
financial
reasons
and
we're
going
to
sort
of
try
to
do
both.
You
know
get
as
much
as
we
can
on
the
new
builds,
but
also
get
into
as
many
buildings
as
possible.
F
J
K
Thank
you.
Thank
you,
councilwoon.
Thank
you
to
the
administration
team
that
is
here
apologize
for
being
late.
This
morning
I
had
another
another
meeting
on
veterans
issues
um
so
I'll.
I
just
have
one
quick
question.
um
I
know
with
the
new
proposal
to
build
josiah
quincy
school,
that
was
one
of
the
issues
we
focused
on
is
making
sure
that
that
school
is
healthy,
it's
environmentally
friendly
for
the
students
in
the
in
the
school
community,
especially
as
it's
pretty
much
right.
K
K
But
how
are
we
going
to
use
that
funding
to
benefit
some
of
the
impacted
areas
in
and
around
chinatown
or
on
on
the
highway
system
um
like
indus
square
roxbury
dorchester?
But
are
we
able
to
use
some
of
that
funding
to
work
on
issues
that
historically
haven't
been
addressed,
such
as
environmental
issues,
and
how
we
can
improve
the
living
conditions
for
for
residents,
whether
it's
a
school,
whether
it's
a
house,
whether
it's
a
city,
city
building,.
F
Thank
you,
counselor
I'll
jump
in
and
then
maybe
justin
will
help
me
round
out
this
answer,
so
um
I
think
um
on
the
quincy
school.
Certainly,
the
goal
is
again
to
get
to
sort
of
something
like
gold
certified.
um
That
seems
to
be
the
standard
that
bps
is
trying
to
design
to
at
this
point
and
and
as
they
get
further
along
the
design,
they
they
find
out
more
about
sort
of
how
achievable
that
is
for
each,
um
but
I
think
that
that
has
been
the
goal.
As
you
mentioned,
um
you
know.
F
How
do
we
get
um
get
to
those
goals
and
get
at
those
goals
through
the
various
places
where
the
city
owns
either
buildings
or
parks
or
whatever
it
may
be,
and
I
think,
certainly
the
goal
of
more
trees,
which
is
something
we've
invested
in
both
on
the
operating
budget,
as
well
as
through
the
park's
capital
budget.
um
It
has
been
a
major
component
of
that,
but
um
I
think
you
raised
really
important
points
about
sort
of.
F
How
can
we
more
broadly
do
that
through
what
the
city's
capital
budget
is
able
to
invest
in
and
again,
you
know,
I
think,
unfortunately,
for
something
as
something
like
climate,
which
is
obviously
everywhere
in
our
city,
but
in
particular
affects
certain
areas
um
more
than
others,
because
of
air
quality
and
other
things.
The
answer
is
always
going
to
be
that
we
have
to
leverage
many
different
players
and
many
different
types
of
resources
to
get
at
it,
because
you
know
when
we
talk
about
the
highway.
Obviously,
that
is
a
state
resource.
F
We
need
state
engagement
to
help
us
address
that
um
we
need
federal
money
because,
frankly,
federal
money
is
where
we
can
make
the
most
transformative
change
because
of
the
the
volume
of
change,
um
but
also
because
it
typically
comes
with
program
parameters
that
sort
of
allow
us
to
extend
beyond
what
um
the
city
typical
operating
or
capital
budget
would
do.
So.
um
It's
really
important
that
we
are
coordinating
across
all
of
those
things
to
address
some
of
the
things
that
you're
that
you're
raising
justin.
Anything
to
add
on
that.
F
A
F
Not
yet
sold
and
therefore
we
have
not
made
any
appropriation
of
those
surplus
funds,
um
so
we
would
come
back
to
the
council
when
we
were
ready
to
do
that.
Obviously,
we've
talked
about
sort
of
what
the
spending
plan
is
that
we
had
originally
conceived
um
with
you
all,
but
but
more
to
come
on
that.
K
Thank
you,
and
I
just
have
one
final
question:
if
you
don't
have
an
answer,
if
you're
able
to
maybe
do
a
little
bit
of
research,
do
we
have
a
list,
a
comprehensive
list
of
all
city-owned
property
in
in
boston
or
even
even
in
greater
boston,
uh
whether
it's
owned
by
the
city
of
boston
or
any
other
city
agency,
such
as
the
bpda?
Do
we
have
a
like
a
comprehensive
list
of
of
of
that
type
of
um
real
estate.
D
Yeah,
I
think
we
certainly
can.
uh
I
don't
have
that
in
front
of
me,
but
yes,
we
certainly
have
uh
an
inventory
of
all
of
our
assets.
There
are
certainly
some
assets
that
are
constantly
evolving
and
there
are
certain
assets
that
you
know
you
and
I
might
consider
sort
of
a
a
piece
of
a
road
somewhere
or
a
piece
of
a
sidewalk
that
is
is
always
in
flux,
depending
on
the
construction
season,
um
but
we
certainly
have
an
inventory
of
all
of
our
properties
that
we
can.
We
can
pull
together.
K
E
Two
of
the
three
categories
that
we
would
do
that
for
um
are
uh
are
kind
of
green
and
social
right,
it's
housing
and
um
uh
and
and
parks.
I
think,
obviously
it
runs
into
the
same
issues
we've
been
discussing.
You
could
only
really
do
it
for
the
stuff.
That's
going
to
be
public
side,
um
although
it's
interesting
because
well,
that's
actually.
The
question
I
guess
is
that
so
cpa
bonding
seems
to
be
usable
for
the
things
that
cpa
can
pay
for,
including
things
that
we
wouldn't
think
our
normal
bonding
could
pay
for.
E
So
that
would
be
like
an
advantage.
Then.
My
concern,
though,
would
be
that
we
wouldn't
have
the
same
price
pricing
benefits
because
they're
not
go
bonds
and
they're
based
on
a
revenue
stream.
That
is
not
as
substantial
as
our
position
as
a
city,
and
so
I'm
just
curious
whether
you
guys
have
run
down
that
road
a
little
bit
at
all.
E
G
No
go
ahead.
Well,
I
can
tell
you
uh
you're
exactly
right
if
we
were
issu,
so
let's
say
we
were
issuing
bonds
for
cpa
funded
projects
and
um
we
were
on
the
d
d
side
of
things,
so
we're
talking
about
affordable
housing.
I
think
it
would
make
all
the
sense
in
the
world
to
issue
those
as
social
bonds,
uh
to
the
extent
that
we
had
um
open
space
kind
of
projects
that
we
were
bonding
for.
I
think
that
that's
a
perfect
uh
type
of
project
that
we
could
issue.
G
We
could
put
the
green
label
on
so
I
think
we
could
certainly
do
that.
I
think
you're
also
exactly
right
in
that
the
borrowing
cost
is
going
to
be
different
now
in
theory,
if
we,
if
the
market
evolves
to
the
point
that
green
bonds
always
have
a
pricing
benefit
over
brown
bonds,
then
your
cost
is
going
to
be
a
little
bit
lower,
but
uh
relatively
it
could
still
be
higher
than
the
cities.
uh
Cities
triple
a
cpa
may
not
be
if
it's
under
its
own
separate
indenture,
so
you're
right
on
both
counts.
D
I
would
also
uh
just
throw
out
there
you
know-
and
we
have
we've
talked
about
this-
a
lot
with
cpa,
it's
about
size
and
scope
right.
So
the
reason
you
bond
for
for
anything
is
because
you
need
a
bunch
of
money
up
front
right
away
if
there
was
sort
of
a
a
house,
because
we
still
are
investing
obviously
in
open
space
and
housing.
All
these
other
things
in
the
annual
cpa
process,
it's
the
sort
of
is
there's.
That's
that
sort
of
fundamental
or
sort
of
you
know
uh
historic
type.
D
Investment
that
you
want
to
make
with
you
know:
housing
or
open
space
money.
Moakley
park
jumps
to
mind
right.
If
you
wanted
to
make
a
100
million
investment
in
oakley
park
that
that
might
be
worth
exploring,
but
on
a
sort
of
an
annual
basis.
We
don't
have
those
types
of
you
know:
game-changing
type,
investments
that
we
are
sort
of
ready
to
make
as
a
city
um
we're
prepared
to
make
and
actually
spend
the
money
to
back
back
to
our
further
conversation
or
earlier
conversation.
D
F
The
last
thing,
I'll
add,
is
just
that
the
pricing
benefit
for
the
city
of
boston
is
the
city
of
boston
right,
so
borrowing
under
our
geo
authority
is
what
gives
us
the
best
pricing
benefit
right,
because
we
are
aaa
credit
and
everybody
wants
to
be
invested
with
boston.
The
green
designation
is
sort
of
the
cherry
on
top
right,
at
least
in
terms
of
what
happened
this
round.
F
um
So
things
like
doing
a
separate
credit,
which
is
something
that
the
city
has
considered
before
they
don't
even
if
they're
green
they're
not
going
to
be
as
good
of
a
benefit
as
city
of
boston
geo
borrowing
um
because
of
the
strength
of
our
underlying
credit.
So
it's
just
something
to
consider
as
we
sort
of
put
together
this
mosaic
of
resources,
um
it
doesn't
always
wash
out
in
terms
of
the
way
that
we
think
it
might
be.
Favorable.
E
Right,
although
I
think
there's
an
interesting
question
about
what
the
market
really
regard,
if
we
issued
cpa
bonds,
would
it
say
oh
that's
only
secured
by
their
cpa
revenue
or
would
it
kind
of
say
well,
the
city
of
boston
is
standing
behind
them,
and
might
we
actually
have
some
of
the
benefits
and
pricing
that
we
get
from
a
geo
bond
because,
realistically
you
know
I
I
might
prognosticate
it.
We
wouldn't
abandon
our
cpa
offerings.
If
the
cpa
revenue
ran
into
trouble.
G
It
would
be
yeah,
you
know
it's
a
good
point.
It
would
be
viewed
as
having
some
type
of
implicit
moral
obligation,
that's
not
really
um
kind
of
based
in
anything
from
a
legal
perspective,
and
so,
um
when
you're
going
through
these
investors
and
their
credit,
analysts
they're
still
looking
at
what
the
law
actually
allows,
who
the.
A
G
E
E
I
still
think
that
at
the
grand
scale
you
could
do
that
multi-year
analysis
and
run
pretty
comfortable
that
you
weren't
going
to
go
over
saying
you
accept
the
policy
limit,
um
but
I
it
also
strikes
me
that
we
should
be
looking
and
I've
talked
about
this
in
other
spaces,
including
on
sort
of
conservation
core
front
like
we
should
be
looking
for
types
of
capital
work.
Let's
say
like
we
get
our
urban
forestry
plan
in
and
we're
like.
E
Oh,
we
need
to
plant
a
hell
of
a
lot
more
trees
like
types
of
capital,
work
that
we
could
scale
up
and
down
like
kind
of
as
filler
relatively
quickly
and
think
about
like
what
are
the
green
opportunities
there.
um
That
are
things
where
we
could
kind
of
halfway
through
the
year,
be
like
all
right
like
go,
but
I'm
not
sure
maybe-
and
maybe
it's
not
halfway
through
the
year-
maybe
it's
october,
because
we're
making
the
bond
offering
in
december.
E
I
don't
know,
but
I
just
wanted
to
sort
of
raise
that
as
a
question,
because
it
seems
to
me
like
that's
more
um
it's
more
fungible
than
the
like:
either
the
school
is
happening
or
it's
not
like
right
um
and
then
that's
more
of
a
comment.
If
you
guys
have
any
comments
and
response
and
then
I
just
wanted
to
stress
on
the
housing
front,
um
you
know
I
mean
I
think
I
think
that
the
city's
partnership
with
the
vha
on
housing
is
great.
E
It
was
in
fact
the
first
context
in
which
I
met
this
team
was
trying
to
persuade
you
to
do
that.
So
I'm
grateful.
um
But,
uh
but
I
do
you
know,
I
think,
in
the
long
run,
that
boston
should
be
thinking
about
um
social
housing
on
publicly
owned
land
in
a
broader
frame
like
bha
housing,
and
then
we
could,
if
we
owned
it,
um
we
could
mix
in
units
that
are
are
um
at
different
income
bracket
levels.
E
I
mean
that's,
it's
a
that's
a
more
aspirational
thing,
but
um
but
when
you
think
about
how
to
anchor
how
to
really
anchor
those
kind
of
full
mix,
communities
in
the
city-
and
you
look
at
what
our
european
counterparts
do
and
frankly
how
our
european
counterparts
turn
the
market
income
into
something
that
funds
the
lower
income
stuff
and
without
doing
it
with
a
private
pass-through
in
a
bunch
of
cases.
There's
a
really
good
example
of
this
in
london.
um
I
think
there's
a
lot
of
opportunity
for
us
to
think
more
capaciously.
E
I
think,
starting
with,
let's
get
the
city
in
the
habit
of
of
working
on
the
bha
projects
and
we
have
so
much
need.
There
makes
good
sense-
um
and
I
think
I've
also
been
uh
quite
public
about
my
hope-
that
we
could
kind
of
marry
the
capital
plan
with
a
lot
of
federal
public
housing
and
ultimately
rad
authority
to
have
more
public
housing
units
in
the
city.
E
um
But
I
just
want
to
kind
of
say
that
I
think
I
think
that
even
within
the
constraints
of
the
bond
council,
that
there
is
a
bunch
more
creatively
that
we
could
do
on
housing
um
and
that
uh
and
that
in
fact,
the
main
problem
from
a
bank
bond
council
perspective
is
affordable,
housing,
that's
privately
owned,
which
then
just
sort
of
points
you
back
towards
affordable
housing.
That
is
publicly
owned.
um
So
I
just
wanted
to
kind
of
underscore
on
both
those
fronts.
F
The
only
thing
I
would,
I
guess
add
in
response
to
that
is
um
to
really
fully
sit
in
my
cfo
position
is
the
need
at
bha
is
so
substantial
that
it
would
um
the
ability
for
the
city's
capital
budget
to
absorb
what
bha
needs
to
bring
their
campuses
um
sort
of
up
to
um
a
modern
standard.
It's
not
achievable
through
city
resources
right
and
so
that's
where
I
think
you
know.
As
you
said,
counselor,
you
know
some
federal
resources,
etc.
F
um
We
have
been
trying
to
make
progress
with
bha
to
address
the
most
urgent
needs
and
um
to
give
them
some
resources
to
help
get
some
key
projects
off
the
ground,
but
we
will
not
be
able
to
you
know
sort
of
I.
I
love
the
idea
of
starting
with
bha
and
building
from
there.
We
won't
be
able
to
finish
bha
right
in
in
terms
of
city
resources,
um
because
it's
just
overwhelming
and
that
used
to
be
entirely.
F
I
know,
I'm
I'm
you'll
probably
correct
me
because
I'll
get
some
facts
here
wrong,
and
you
obviously
know
this
better
than
I
do,
but
that
used
to
be
a
federally
funded
program
right
that
there
was
no
city
resource.
That
was
committing
capital
to
bha,
um
and
so
the
fact
that
we've
gone
down
this
path
is,
I
think,
really
needed
and
necessary.
F
But
it
is
certainly
not
something
that
the
city
can
on
its
own,
take
on
the
entire
weight
of
um
because
it
would,
it
would
overwhelm
our
capital
plan
and
we,
you
know
we
have
to
fix
our
roads
and
our
sidewalks.
We
have
to
maintain
our
schools.
um
We
have
to
you,
know,
keep
up
to
speed
on
our
bcyf
centers
like
there
is
some
baseline
stuff
that
nobody
else
is
going
to
do,
and
unfortunately,
that's
why
we
stepped
into
the
bha
space
too,
because
all
of
a
sudden
nobody
else
was
going
to
do
that
either.
F
E
Absolutely
and
I
fully
intend
to
chase
hundreds
of
millions
of
federal
dollars
to
support
this
portfolio.
I
agree
with
you
completely
emma,
but
I
guess
what
I
would
say
is.
I
still
think
that
if
we
thought
about
this
as
a
part
of
our
portfolio,
um
let's
say
that
complemented
by
federal
dollars.
Right
because,
like
you
said,
there's
no
way
right
with
the
backlog,
I
think
we
could
think
more
like
the
reality.
J
E
That
we
are
now
like
the
amount
of
income
that
you
get
from
project-based
vouchers
in
the
city,
with
our
switch
to
small
area.
Fair
market
rents
is
substantial,
it's
something
where
that
would
be
a
public
income
stream
that
we
could
have
units
on
public
land
that
are
absolutely
paying
their
way
and
you're
not
doing
a
big
gap
fill,
but
you
might
have
to
do
some
upfront
stuff
that
you're
then
going
to
fund
back.
I
think
that
um
you
know
when
we
think
about
the
I
mean
even
a
bunch
of
the
public
private
partnerships.
E
We're
doing,
I
think
charlestown
is
really
exciting
and
I'm
so
glad
it's
in
the
social
bond
um
portfolio
from
december.
I
think
the
like,
I
said
in
london.
What
they
did
long
term
was
to
even
move
to
the
next
scale,
where,
instead
of
hiring
a
private
developer,
to
do
that
redevelopment
and
the
cross
subsidization
with
the
market,
um
the
housing
authority,
hired
architects
and
a
builder
right
and
then
the
and
the
private
market
rents
are
all
kind
of
coming
back
to
them
in
the
long
term
for
the
project.
E
So
I
just
offer
that
as
uh
as
food
for
thought
and
then
also
on
the
on
the
on
the
environmental
side,
I
think
looking
for
these
scalable
opportunities,
I
think
we've
been
talking
a
lot
and
I'll
talk
in
other
forums
more
about
the
kind
of
um
conservation
core
opportunities,
but
I
I
still
feel
on
the
green
side.
I
just
feel
like
our
10
percent
is
great,
but
it's
not
going
to
get
us
here
to
there.
So
that's.
D
Just
very
quickly,
um
not
only
is
it
a
a
sort
of
part
of
the
capital
plan,
we
don't
want
to
crowd
out.
It's
also
the
operating
budget
right.
I
know
we
talk
a
lot
about
you
know
getting
to
seven
percent,
but
keeping
up
pace
with
that
level
of
debt
service
requires
debt
service
as
a
increase
of
the
overall
budget
to
represent
a
very
large
portion
of
all
the
new
money
we
have
coming
into
the
city
right.
D
So
um
it's
definitely
that
going
forward
and
I
think
from
the
10
10
is
our
goal.
We've
added
more
than
10
over
the
last
couple
years
for
climate,
so
I
think
that
that's
certainly
um
again
the
greenest
of
the
green
shades
as
to
use
drew's
expression,
but
um
we're
definitely
trying
to
do
as
much
as
possible
when
it
comes
to
that.
But
there
are
certainly
going
to
be
trade-offs
in
every
scenario
that
we
have
no.
E
And
so
I
just
uh
I'm
always
kind
of
wanting
us
to
push
in
that
direction,
um
and
the
last
thing
I'll
say
just
take
counselor
mejia's
question
or
she
she's
not
on
so
I'll
tell
her
offline
about
the
the
bha
um
but
yeah
the
the
bhas,
um
I
think
had
uh
some
pretty
decent
success
on
the
procurement
side
that
I
can
talk
to
her
about
the
procedures
for
so.
Thank
you.
Thank
you,
madam
chair.
E
B
J
It's
really
frustrating
for
us
that
there's
such
a
disconnect
between
what
we
are
aspiring
to
as
a
city
and
trying
to
plan
for
as
a
city
to
mitigate
the
impacts
of
climate
change,
while
a
level
at
the
state
level,
things
seem
to
be
going,
the
opposite
direction
with
regard
to
investment
in
transit
and
the
mbta
et
cetera.
So
I
think
I'm
just
using
this
moment
to
vent.
J
But
it's
a
really
really
frustrating
thing,
and
sometimes
they
wonder
if,
if
the
city
had
more
control
over
some
of
this,
if
we
could
do
a
better
job,
even
in
terms
of
a
local
motion,
local
transit
system
that
uncouples
itself
from
from
the
mbta,
uh
if
we
could
do
a
better
job
and
and
and
then
to
the
point
that
you
know
all
this
excessive
traffic
coming
in
from
the
suburbs
and
further
west
is
is,
is
destroy,
is
destroying
our
air
quality
in
in
neighborhoods
like
chinatown.
That
are
right.
J
F
E
Counselor
counselor
braden,
um
we
did
have
the
uh
um
water
and
sewer
came
to
councillor
wu
and
mai's
other
hearing
on
the
conservation
corps
and
and
talked
about
a
bunch
of
their
kind
of
capital
plan
on
that
front
and
the
fact
that,
because
they're
under
this
epa
order,
I
think
there's
opportunity
to
scale
up
there.
So
I
do
think
they're
thinking
along
those
lines
substantially
and
we
can
nudge
them
further
and
there's
an
opportunity
for
further
collaboration
with
the
city.
J
B
F
Yeah,
I'm
gonna,
let
drew
take
the
interest
rate
question
I'll
just
say
at
a
high
level.
um
Certainly
we
talk
a
lot
about
the
bond
rating.
I
know
every
year
it
comes
up
as
we
talk
about
budget
um
in.
It
is
very
much
an
important
metric
for
us
um
partially
because
certainly
of
the
rates
that
it
achieves
for
us,
um
but
I
think
on
a
larger,
larger
sort
of
lens.
F
It
is
important
because
it's
really
a
report
card
for
us
in
terms
of
understanding
whether
we
are
um
managing
the
city's
finances
in
in
the
most
responsible
way
possible,
and
I
think
we
have
been
fortunate
to
receive
the
report
card
for
many
many
years
um
and
um
so
for
me,
um
the
interest
rate
savings
are
certainly
important.
Although
you
know
they're,
they
are
certainly
not
in
the
um
realm
of
savings
that
I
think,
would
um
even
allow
us
to
achieve
some
some.
You
know
sort
of
large
new
capital
project
because
of
the
the
avoided
cost.
G
Things
is,
you
know
we
always
uh
price
against
the
mmd
curve,
and
you
know
the
mmd
curve
approximates
what
a
triple
a
rated
bond
vanilla
should
bring
in
the
market,
and
then
everyone
kind
of
scores
themselves
against
that
uh
boston
did
very
very
well
this
time
around
uh
with
triple
a
pricing
flat
against
the
curve
on
the
back
end.
Now,
if
you're,
if
your
question
is
around
well,
how
much
does
having
a
triple
a
savior
versus
having
a
double
a
plus?
G
I
think
that
it
would
be
nearly
impossible
to
quantify
from
an
interest
rate
perspective,
because
it
will
be
different
for
whoever
you
ask.
I
think
that
emma's
exactly
right
when
she
says
that
there's
a
lot
more
value
to
maintaining
a
triple
a
than
simply
the
interest
savings
associated
with
it.
It
is
a
good
indicator
of
where
we
are
in
getting
our
pension
obligations
taken
care
of.
Frankly,
more
importantly,
now
than
ever
where
we
are
with
handling
uh
climate
change
mitigation
issues
and
where
they
see
us
going
over
the
next
five
ten
and
twenty
years
so.
B
Just
to
give
I
mean
just
I'm
not
asking
this
to
hold
anybody
accountable
to
any
uh
projections
or
anything
like
that,
just
to
give
a
sense
of
scale
right
for-
and
I
know
you
know
all
lots
of
different
factors
for
boston,
given
everything
you
know,
holding
everything
else,
sort
of
equal
about
the
rest
of
the
factors
that
go
into
the
bond
rating,
if,
if
boston
were
at
double
a
what?
What
do
you
like
is?
What
sort
of
scale
of
savings
does
that
represent.
G
If
we
were
at
aaa
versus
double
a
counselor,
um
it's
and
I'm
not
trying
to
be
evasive
here.
It's
just
that.
If
I
give
you
an
answer,
it's
not
going
to
be
a
good
one
and
it's
not
going
to
be
an
accurate
one,
because
it
depends
on
a
lot
of
different
things.
It
would
be
difficult
to
say:
does
it
mean
that
you
know?
G
Does
the
aaa
save
you
uh
so
in
this
last
transaction,
for
example,
we
price
flat
against
the
curve
if
we
had
a
double
a
does
that
mean
we're
going
to
price
50
basis
points
over
the
curve?
No,
um
so
maybe
that
gives
you
some
kind
of
skill,
but
let
me
just
tell
you
something:
pricing
50
basis
points
above
the
curve
is
a
terrible
result.
B
B
C
C
Simply
put
the
need
to
use
all
tools
at
the
city's
disposal
to
help
its
most
excluded.
Residents
could
not
be
more
urgent,
and
the
best
way
to
do
this
is
to
take
advantage
of
the
fiscal
space
available
to
the
city
as
councillor
wu
was
alluding
to
in
her
questions
just
now,
by
virtue
of
its
strong
credit
position,
as
well
as
changing
credit
conditions
both
nationally
and
globally,
which
are
associated
with
the
financing
specifically
of
green
infrastructure.
C
This
can
create
a
virtuous
circle
of
municipal
finance
deployment
that
would
make
the
process
of
decarbonization
an
overwhelming
structural
opportunity
for
the
city
and,
second,
that
the
city
has
significant
degrees
of
untapped
fiscal
space
with
which
to
take
advantage
of
this
otherwise
theoretical
opportunity.
So
what
do
we
mean
by
green
infrastructure?
And
why
is
this
so
important?
Green
infrastructure
is
not
only
the
kind
of
infrastructure
that
helps
to
mitigate
the
effects
of
climate
change.
C
Rather,
cities
are
increasingly
recognized
as
the
front
lines
of
what
climate
scientists
call
adaptation.
That
is,
cities
are
not
only
dealing
with
the
effects
of
carbon;
they
can
lead
the
way
towards
a
transition
from
carbon.
Foremost
among
these
adaptation
strategies
is
what's
widely
recognized
as
one
of
the
most
pressing
social
and
economic
challenges.
C
That's
facing
the
city
of
boston,
which
is
housing,
buildings
account
for
approximately
40
percent
of
carbon
emissions
globally,
with
a
similar
share
of
emissions
associated
with
buildings
nationally
in
the
united
states,
especially
over
the
past
decade,
boston
has
undergone
a
building
boom,
which
should
also
be
understood
as
a
carbon
boom.
This
has
largely
been
associated
with
increasing
economic
and
racial
inequality.
C
uh
Fortunately,
the
inclusion
of
housing
investments
in
a
broader
portfolio
of
public
green
investment
would
be
a
particularly
low
risk
in
financial
terms,
while
also
serving
to
undo
the
profound
residential
inequalities
that
characterize
boston.
Today,
when
pooled
with
riskier
large
infrastructure
projects,
the
choice
to
invest
in
green
housing
will
mean
blending
in
safe
and
comparably
predictable
returns.
C
My
point
here
is
not
that
adding
affordable
housing
investments
to
the
mix
does
not
cost
money.
It
does,
but
rather
my
point
is
that
it's
an
investment
that
is
unusually
predictable,
this
reduced
risk
profile
would
make
issuing
bonds
for
a
portfolio
of
projects
that
includes
affordable,
green
housing
particularly
attractive
green
housing.
Investments
could
include
the
construction
of
new
homes
on
the
basis
of
design
standards
that
insulate
heat
and
cool
using
all-electric
renewable
technology.
A
C
Greenhousing
investments
could
finance
the
retrofitting
of
residences
with
electric
appliances,
heating
and
cooling
systems.
The
spillover
benefits
are
enormous.
First,
public
investment
in
these
projects
would
incentivize
construction
trade
unions
to
mainstream
expertise
in
these
building
standards
among
their
workforce
and
training
programs.
C
I
want
to
end
by
noting
that
there's
a
sea
change
in
economic
policy
making
at
the
national
level
from
which
the
city
of
boston
can
both
learn
and
take
forward.
This
change
can
be
summed
up
in
what
the
biden
administration
now
refers
to
as
the
fundamental
connection
between
quote
physical
infrastructure
and
quote
human
infrastructure.
C
B
E
B
Thank
you.
I
will
echo
the
gratitude
to
everyone.
Thank
you,
professor.
Thank
you
to
the
administration
team
and
I'm
really
excited
to
see
the
the
creativity
that
we're
using
to
really
step
into
the
full
use
of
municipal
power
and
tackling
the
urgency
of
what
we're
facing
so
we'll
look
to
continue
the
conversation,
but
for
now
this
will
conclude
our
hearing
on
docket
number
zero,
two,
two:
zero
uh
green
and
social
bonds.
This
hearing
is
adjourned.