►
From YouTube: Committee on Ways & Means on February 7, 2022
Description
Docket #0158 - Message and order for your approval an order authorizing the issuance of refunding bonds in a principal amount not to exceed Two Hundred Million Dollars ($200,000,000.00).
A
A
C
A
All
right,
good
morning,
everyone
I'm
calling
this
hearing
to
order.
My
name
is
tanya
francis
anderson
district,
7
city
councilor.
I
am
the
chair
of
boston
city
council
committee
on
ways
and
means
I
am
joined
by
my
colleagues
council
president
ed
flynn
of
district
two
counselor
michael
flaherty
at
large
councilor
ruthie
louisiana
at
large.
A
A
A
A
We
are
joined
this
morning
by
the
city's
chief
financial
officer.
Justin
starrett
assistant,
collector
treasurer
and
head
of
treasury
of
the
city
of
boston
marine
corso,
as
well
as
second
assistant,
collector
treasurer
richard
the
piano
to
testify
on
this
docket.
I
will
now
turn
the
floor
over
to
chief
starrett
for
opening
remarks
to
stare
at
you
now
have
the
floor.
D
Thank
you,
madam
chair,
and
let
me
be
the
first
of
probably
many
to
congratulate
you
and
what
will
be
of
many
of
many
ways
of
means,
hearings
to
come
so
welcome,
and
I
and
the
entire
team,
including
rich
and
maureen,
who
are
on
the
call
from
our
treasury
department,
are
always
at
in
your
entire
council's
disposal
for
questions
or
or
comments,
as
you
guys
see
fit
going
forward.
So
before
we,
I
turn
it
over
to
the
experts
really
maureen
and
rich
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
what
today's
order
is.
D
I
wanted
to
set
a
little
bit
of
the
context,
so
today's
order
is
for
200
million
dollars
of
authorization
to
do
what
are
called
refundable
bonds.
Refundable
bonds
in
very
layman's
terms,
allow
us
to
take
out
additional
borrowing
authority
or
take
out
additional
bonds
to
pay
off
bonds
that
were
taken
off
in
previous
years
that
had
higher
interest
rates,
because
interest
rates
still
remain
low,
although,
as
I'm
sure
we'll
talk
a
little
bit
today,
interest
rates
are
rising
for
projects
that
have
been
completed
or
are
have
already
been
paid
for
by
the
city.
D
So
this,
in
short,
does
not
add
any
new
projects
to
the
plan
or
does
not
give
us
any
additional
borrowing
to
fund
new
projects.
This
really
just
allows
us
to
borrow
funding
right
now,
while
interest
rates
are
still
relatively
low,
take
out
bonds
from
previous
years
that
have
higher
interest
rates
which
create
savings
on
the
operating
budget,
so
that
we
can
obviously
invest
more
in
critical
city
services,
but
allow
us
to
grow
the
overall
size
of
the
budget
and
overall
size
of
the
capital
plan
to
make
important
investments.
D
E
Thank
you
and
thank
you,
madam
chair,
and
thank
you
chief
steroid,
so
as
we're
discussing
this,
the
treasury
department
is
requesting
refunding
authorization
of
200
million
dollars
with
the
intent
of
this,
providing
not
only
flexibility
for
an
upcoming
transaction,
but
future
transactions
so
should
the
need
arise.
This
is
a
type
of
bond
where
you
want
to
be
relatively
nimble.
As
chief
starrett
said,
this
is
we're
taking
advantage.
A
E
Low
interest
rates,
as
you
all
likely
know,
these
are
historically
low
interest
rates,
so
we
want
to
take
advantage,
remain
nimble
and
get
as
much
out
of
the
market
as
we
can
at
this
time.
About
a
month
ago,
we
reached
out
to
our
financial
advisor
at
pfm,
asking
him
if
we
did
have
any
opportunity
for
refundings,
and
he
came
back
and
told
us
that
we
did
have
some
opportunity
here
for
advanced
refunding.
E
So
that's
kind
of
what
brings
us
here
today
is
to
say
we
know
we
don't
need
200
million
dollars
today,
but
we
want
the
authorization
should
we
need
it
so
that
we
can
remain
nimble.
The
last
refunding
authorization
was
in
2019
when
the
city
council
approved
a
150
million
dollar
refunding
order.
At
that
time,
the
city
was
anticipating
a
refund
and
transaction
in
excess
of
about
80
million
dollars,
and
we
didn't
have
sufficient
authorization
at
that
time.
F
A
A
D
And
I
think
what's
important
there,
madam
chair,
is
that
when
we
go
to
market
for
an
upcoming
bond
sale
right,
so
I
think
we're
planning
to
issue
one
both
for
new
projects
and
for
this
refunding
we're
really
gonna,
see
what
the
market
says
and
they
may
say
hey.
It
may
be
better
to
take
out
more
bonds.
So
I
think
that's
a
little
bit
of
why
we're
asking
for
the
additional
authorization
as
well
as
planning
for
future
years
as
well.
So
I
think
that's.
E
E
D
Yeah,
I
think
that's
actually
the
exact
right
point
is
that
there's
actually
risk
in
us
not
moving
now,
knowing
that
the
fed
has
planned
for
at
least
three
more
rate
increases
going
forward,
if
not
more,
depending
on
how
inflation
goes,
but
definitely
we
want
to
get
in
there.
You
know
sooner
rather
than
later,
to
make
sure
we
realize
at
least
this
amount
of
savings.
E
A
E
A
E
Again,
flexibility,
but
these
will
be
federally
taxable
refunding
bonds.
These
are
advanced
free
fundings,
so
these
will
be
taxable.
The
internal
revenue
code
of
2017
stated
that
for
advanced
refundings,
they're
taxable.
So
I
I
don't
think
it
was
an
intentional
omission.
It
was
just
you
know
that
the
opportunity
does
exist
to
have
a
current
refunding,
but
we
are
not
here
today
for
that.
A
A
C
C
E
D
Who
the
lowest
price
is
going
to
be
right
and
I
think,
as
maureen
mentioned
in
the
past,
we
have
done
direct
sales.
That's
actually
the
last
year's
bond
issuance,
which
was
18
months
ago
at
this
point,
was
a
negotiated
deal
where
we
worked
with
specific
lenders
and
specific
banks
of
specific
institutions
to
issue
bonds
for
mostly
new
projects.
C
E
So
with
because
this
is
a
refunding,
we
will
be,
as
we
said,
swapping
out
prior
debt
with
with
this
new
current
debt.
So
and
it's
it's
almost
completely
just
a
book
transaction,
if
you
will
so
yeah,
this
is
and
it'll
be
lowering
the
rates.
So
again
as
you're
aware
counselor,
you
know
debt
is
issued
initially
for
new
projects.
So
and
then
we
have,
you
know
we
have
spend
down
period
etc,
and
then
we
pay
them
off
over
the
life
of
the
bond.
E
C
Excellent,
thank
you
maureen.
Thank
you
to
richard.
I
see
richard
there
and
to
justin.
I
think
these
types
of
you
know
especially
want
to
say
thank
you
to
to
the
chair
as
well.
I
think
these
types
of
hearings
are
very
helpful
also
to
the
public
explaining
exactly
what
the
process
is,
what
impact
it
has
on
capital
project,
what
impact
it
has
on
city,
services
and
city
finances.
C
A
B
Thank
you,
madam
chair.
Thank
you
to
justin
maureen
and
richard
a
couple,
quick
questions.
You
know
what,
if
any
impact
does
doing
this
have
on
bond
rating?
I
don't
see
we
bragged
having
triple
a
status
in
addition
to
what
council
president
flynn
talked
about
previous
administrations.
It's
also
it's
been
an
astute
in
a
fiscally
responsive
council
that
has
also
passed
those
budgets.
It's
been
a
partnership,
so
I'm
just
curious
to
see
when
we
go
down
this
road,
what
impact
would
that
have
on
our
bond
rating.
E
B
B
E
E
We
were
given
a
schedule
on
that
counselor,
flaherty
and
again,
as
as
justin
said
earlier,
the
the
look
we
got
was
about
a
month
ago,
so
that
may
change
before
we
go
to
market,
but
we
were
given
some
and
again
the
goal
here
is
we
look?
We
talked
to
our
financial
advisor
and
they
look
at
bonds.
Where
we
given
current
rates,
we
could
get
a
net
present
value
say
of
four
percent,
so
so
right
there.
That's
that's
how
they
identify
what
bonds
are
even
eligible.
E
If
you
will
and
then
they
they
use
a
term
of
savings
efficiency,
which
is
essentially
your
net
present
value,
divided
by
net
present
value
and
any
negative
arbitrage,
so
they're
giving
us
the
analysis
of
these
are
kind
of
your
candidates.
So,
yes,
there
is
a.
There
are
specific
bonds
that
would
be
eligible
at
this
time.
E
B
We
have
to
get
the
lowest
bid
financial
advisor
and
we
have
to
get
the
lowest
bid
bond
council
as
opposed
to
recognizing
banks
that
participate
in
the
one
plus
program
or
banks
and
lending
institutions
that
are
have
partnered
with
the
city
and
they're
again
practicing.
You
know
in
their
own
respective
fields.
That's
how
we
as
a
local
government
would
anticipate
around
again
hiring
practices,
lending
practices
etc.
Do
we
have
some
type
of
formula
that
rewards
those
good
institutions
who
again
have
been
great
community
partners.
E
So
I
will
say
that
we
have
contracts
existing
contracts
with
our
financial
advisor,
which
is
pfm
and
and
our
bond
council,
which
is
locked
lord,
so
those
were
rfps
that
were
completed
and
I'm
looking
at
rich
because
he
likely
has
a
better
memory
of
this
than
me,
and
I
suggest
it
went
off
mu.
So,
but
we
have
existing
contracts
and
we
will
be
using
them
for
this
competitive
sale.
Yeah.
D
No,
it's
a
great
question,
though
council
show
on
in
on
an
three
year
either
annual
or
three
year
basis.
Rich
will
give
me
the
numbers
we
do
our
own
personal
bond
council
and
our
own
personal
financial
advisor
who
work
with
the
city
throughout
the
year,
not
only
on
this
transaction,
but
on
other
matters
throughout
the
year,
so
they're
kind
of
our
permanent
financial
advisor
and
our
permanent
bond
council.
D
What
we
have
done
in
the
past-
and
I
think
this
would
be
a
great
opportunity
to
grab
what
you
just
mentioned
is
the
next
time
we
do
a
negotiated
deal
where
we
are
working
with
specific
institutions.
We
can
put
some
of
that
criteria
that
you
mentioned
into
the
rfp
that
we
put
out
there
to
to
factor
in
their
local
presence
and
their
local
contributions
and
their
local
support
for
a
future
transaction
that
might
be
negotiated.
So
I
think
we'll
certainly
take
that
note
and
put
that
in
the
back
of
our
pocket.
B
Thank
you
that
would
be
appreciated,
obviously,
given
the
affordable
housing
crisis
and
the
fact
that
the
one
plus
mortgage
program,
arguably,
is
probably
one
of
our
our
best
tools.
However,
not
all
lending
institutions
are
offering
that
and
or
participating
in
that
program,
and
you
know
whether
it's
to
incentivize
or
to
encourage
or
to
reward
lending
institutions.
Advisers
council
who
are
participating
in
those
types
of
efforts
on
behalf
of
the
city,
helping
us
sort
of
close
those
gaps
would
be
appreciative.
So,
but
yeah
look
forward.
B
A
G
Thank
you,
madam
chair,
and
and
congrats
on
doing
a
great
job
on
sharing
your
first
meeting
hello.
Everyone
happy
to
be
here.
Thank
you,
maureen
justin
and
richard
I'm,
a
new
at
our
city,
councilor
rudzi
louisiana.
So
I
have
a
few
questions.
First
is
maureen.
You
stated
that
these
are
are
the
type
of
bonds
where
we
want
to
be
nimble.
I
was
wondering
if
you
could
collaborate
more
on
what
type
of
bonds
you're
talking
about,
and
why
are
these
ones
specifically
where
we
want
to
be
nimble.
E
Absolutely-
and
these
are
refunding
bonds,
as
opposed
to
a
a
bond
issue
for
new
money,
so
new
money
would
be
to
fund
projects,
etc.
These
are
refunding
bonds
where
we're
really
trying
to
respond
to
the
market
and
to
the
interest
rates.
So
that's
why
I
reference
the
desire
to
be
nimble
is
because
you
want
to
be
responsive
to
the
rates
and
take
advantage
of
at
what
we
all
know
to
be.
You
know
pretty
historically
low
rates.
D
D
So
we
have
a
plan,
though,
to
borrow
and
again
this
isn't
adding
any
net
debt,
but
our
capital
plan
does
plan
to
borrow
up
to
that
seven
percent,
but
the
exact
timing
of
it
is
always
a
yearly
question,
because
we
have
certain
rules
around
how
much
we
can
borrow
for
projects
that
are
not
started
yet.
But
the
plan
for
the
city,
which
is
a
set
policy
that
we
have,
is
seven
percent.
G
E
A
F
Thank
you
thank
you,
maureen
justin
and
richard
for
holding
this
coming
to
this
meeting
with
all
this
information,
but
also
I
want
to
congratulate
you,
chair
on
sharing
your
first
of
many
like
justin,
said
ways.
It
means
meeting
so
here
to
support,
but
also
listen
and
learn.
So
I'm
happy
to
be
on
this
call
lots
of
great
questions
already
and
no
specific
questions
yet,
but
maybe
on
the
last
round.
I'll
have
a
few
more
questions,
but
thank
you
so
much
and
congratulations
time.
A
H
Thank
you,
madam
chair,
and
thank
you
jesse
maureen
and
richard
for
all
the
information
that
you
provided
just
have
a
quick
question.
It
was
mentioned
that
we
were
previously.
We
negotiated
a
deal
versus
now,
where
we're
doing
it
in,
I
believe,
open
market.
Why?
Now
the
the
latter
versus
the
negotiated
deal.
D
We
had
as
counselor
lujan
mentioned,
we
had
a
green
bond
for
the
first
time
we
had
a
social
bond
for
the
first
time
we
had
some
refundings
which
are
similar
to
this
one
right
here,
and
then
we
had
some
regular
bonds.
So
because
we
were
putting
together
a
bunch
of
different
types
of
bonds,
we
decided
to
do
a
negotiated
deal
where
we
could
actually
tell
a
bit
of
a
story
to
our
investors
and
sort
of
really
gin
up.
D
Some
some
excitement
about
the
bonds
which
it
did
and
we
we
sort
of
got
some
national
publicity
because
of
it,
and
that
was
sort
of
exciting.
So
it's
really
the
type
of
deal
that
we
have,
whereas
this
one
that
we're
thinking
about
for
this
year
is
going
to
be
a
little
more
simple
and
it's
going
to
be
a
little
more
straightforward.
So
we're
just
going
to
do
likely
a
competitive
deal
and
just
try
to
get
the
best
price.
D
That
way,
we
can
maximize
our
savings,
which
we
can
plow
back
into
either
new
new
debt
issuance
as
a
part
of
the
upcoming
budget
or
new
social
programs
or
programs
for
the
operating
budget
side.
So
that's
sort
of
a
it
was
last
year's
was
more
of
an
outlier
that
we
did
a
negotiated
deal
and
it's
more
traditional
that
we
do
the
competitive,
low
price
ones.
H
I
Brock,
you
have
the
floor.
Thank
you
so
much,
madam
chair,
and
thank
you
to
justin
and
the
team
a
couple
of
questions
I
just
wondered.
Well.
First
of
all,
I
just
wanted
to
say
on
the
negotiated
deal
just
for
new
counselors
to
know
because
justin's
not
playing
it
up
as
much,
but
that
deal
was
a
big
deal
for
the
city.
We
actually
were
one
of
the
first
entities
in
the
country
to
demonstrate
an
actual
benefit
to
selling
green
bonds
in
the
sense
that
we
actually
got
better.
D
Yeah,
I
I
think
it's
you
get
in
a
lot
of
trouble
when
you
try
to
time
the
market,
so
we
are
certainly
not
timing.
The
market
we
go
to
market
when
we
try
to
when
we
need
the
money.
I
think,
last
year,
as
part
of
the
negotiated
deal,
the
market
had
sort
of
said
to
us:
hey,
you
guys
are
kind
of
a
little
bit
sleepy
and
you're
in
your
process.
We
go
to
markets
the
same
year.
It's
always
negotiated.
I
E
So
counselor
buck,
it's
not
it's
not
going
to
be
this
year's
refunding
at
200
million
it's
just
we
are.
We
are
asking
for
200
million
so
that
we
have
flexibility
for
any
future
as
well.
This
year,
right
now
the
anticipated
is
60
million,
but
we
noted
that
in
the
past
two
years
we
have
spent
about
180
million
dollars
in
two
years,
so
we're
just
looking
to
have
a
little
flexibility,
so
that
should
something
come
available
even
within
the
same
within
the
same
year,
we
are,
can
act,
nimbly.
I
Yeah
and
I
should
take
a
look
at
the
legislation-
and
I
don't
know-
maybe
follow
up
with
a
chair,
but
just
how
like
what's
the
timeline
for
which
the
council's
authorization
is
taken
to
hold
like
if
we
authorize
200
million
in
refunding,
does
it
just?
Is
it
just
taken
to
be
over,
say
you
refunded
over
the
next
five
years,
this
council's
vote
would
hold,
or
is
it
for
the
calendar
year
or
how?
How
is
that
structured
legally?
Do
you
know.
D
Yeah
we'll
get
it
we'll
get
we'll
get
an
exact
answer
on
that
free
counselor.
My
understanding
is,
though,
that
once
a
vote
is
taken
by
the
city
council
to
authorize
an
issuance
it,
it
is
good
forever,
but
we
will
certainly
give
you
the
exact
deadline.
The
interesting
thing
here
is
that
if
this
is
again
not
new
money,
this
is
sort
of
no
it
no
additional
increases.
So
it's
not
like
something
we
can.
We
would
be
planning
to
use
for
other
stuff.
I
It's
not
a
backdoor
budget
like
decision
really,
except
that
it,
as
you
said,
frees
up
more
money
for
us
to
spend
on
the
things
we
actually
want
to
spend
it
on.
Did
the
other
thing
I
might
have
missed?
Are
there
any
takeout
penalties
associated
with
the
bonds
that
were
no
great
excellent,
and
I'm
just
seeing
I've
made
my
little
notes
here?
I
Oh,
I
guess
the
last
question
would
just
be
if
you
could
speak
a
little
bit
to
you
mention
the
fact
that
you've
got
the
advice
and
forecast
a
month
out,
obviously
everybody's
kind
of
following
the
question
of
the
fed's
trajectory
with
interest
rates
hikes
like
how
do
we
think
that's
going
to
affect
the
muni
bond
market
and
our
prospects?
Is
that
a
situation
where
it
you
know,
as
we
get
closer
to
actual
rate
hikes
going
into
effect?
I
E
E
E
A
I
J
Thank
you,
madam
chair.
Congratulations
on
your
first,
your
first
hearing
good
morning,
everyone,
justin
and
richie,
and
and
and
maureen
good,
to
see
you
guys,
I'm
sorry,
I
missed
the
very
beginning,
so
we're
we're
basically
refinancing
our
bonds,
how
much
of
our
bonds?
What
exactly
like?
How
how
much?
What's
the
dollar
number
that
we're
refinancing
here.
J
J
D
Yeah
and
maury
could
certainly
give
an
exact
number,
but
but
I'll
try
to
recite
it,
so
we
have
about
a
billion
and
a
half
dollars
worth
of
outstanding
debt
in
the
city.
Now
that
is
different
types
of
debt
spread
out
over
different
lengths
of
time.
So
we
have
five-year
debt
10-year
debt
20-year
debt,
but
rough,
so
200
million
would
be
roughly
oh.
I
don't
know
10-15
of
that.
Something
like
that.
So
I
think
it's
it's
not
insignificant,
but
it's
also
something
as
boring
mentioned.
D
We
did
about
190
billion
over
the
last
two
years,
so
we
think
there's
probably
an
opportunity
to
do.
You
know
a
similar
size
portion
over
the
next
two
years.
We
just
know
that
we
have
at
least
60
million
coming
up
in
this
first
deal
as
maureen
mentioned
in
the
next
month,
or
two
you
know
could
be
more,
could
be
a
little
bit
less
we'll
see
what
the
market
says
when
we
get
there,
but
we
again,
we
also
don't.
D
I
mean
I
think
the
fed
has
priced
in
four
rate
hikes
over
the
next
year,
but
things
could
turn
they
could
go
faster.
They
could
go
slower.
We
may
want
to
speed
some
stuff
up,
so
I
think
200
million
is
a
safe
amount
for
to
give
us
a
little
bit
of
flexibility,
but
also
to
make
sure
that
we
can
be
mindful
that
we're
not
you
know
getting
too
much
authorization
on
the
front
end.
J
D
Sorry,
the
1.5
billion
is
the
bonds
that
we
have
outstanding.
That's
that's
everything
that
we
have
the
190
the
debt
service
we
pay
on.
That
is
that
190
million
dollar
number
of
annual
that
comes
out
of
the
operating
budget
every
year.
So
this
will
sort
of
this
will
take
take
out
a
little
bit
out
of
column.
This
won't
take
anything
out
of
the
debt
number
it'll
actually
just
result
in
savings
on
the
operating
budget
side
of
three
and
a
half
million
dollars
over
the
next
10
years.
J
D
Great
question-
and
I
think
it'll
be
a
more
robust
conversation
as
part
of
the
capital
plan
that
we
we
work
on
with
you
all
in
the
next
month
or
two
as
we
roll
up
the
budget,
but
suffice
to
say
there
are
some
local
matching
components
to
some
of
that
federal
dollars.
So
we're
going
to
be
looking
to
either
find
local
matches
here
with
the
city
or
with
the
state
and
try
to
go
after
some
of
the
big
federal
dollars
that
are
out
there
and
those
will
ultimately
be
bonded.
D
But
we
usually
go
through
the
capital
budget
process.
First
to
identify
sort
of
this
is
the
project
and
we'll
go
figure
out
the
bonding
after
the
fact.
So
I
think
there'll
be
more
to
come
on
that
in
the
in
the
budget
conversation
next
in
the
next
month
or
two
but
yeah.
The
plan
will
be
to
get
as
much
federal
dollars
as
we
can
and
use
the
city's
credit
rating
to
help
help
support
that
local
match
as
much
as
possible.
J
Yeah
because
I
think
we're
in
a
a
really
good
time
now
to
look
at
infrastructure
improvements,
whether
it's
libraries,
schools,
community
centers
fields,
those
sorts
of
things,
I
think
that's
the
infrastructure.
We
should
be
looking
at
looking
at
building
crazy
time,
but
also
can
potentially
be
an
exciting
time
and
just
just
a
statement
I
heard
maureen.
I
hope
it's
only
four
four
or
four
increases
over
the
next
year.
I
heard
any
I
heard
up
to
10
so
hopefully,
hopefully
you're
right,
not
what
I'm
hearing.
Thank
you,
everybody
and
again,
tanya.
A
Thank
you
thanks
frank.
I
appreciate
it.
I
guess,
if
we
don't,
if
we
have
any
questions,
I'm
gonna
ask
everyone
to
keep
to
limit
to
just
one
question:
raise
your
hand
and
I'll
call
you
by
the
order
that
you
raise
your
hand
and
just
limit
to
one
question.
If
the
questions
have
not
been
answered,
then
we
can
do
another
circle
around.
A
I
just
have
one
a
couple
of
questions
before
we
move
forward
with
other
counselors
asking
their
questions
and
mr
garcia,
mr
d,
piano,
would
love
to
hear
your
voice.
Mr
sarah,
who
remember
like
to
answer
this:
what
are
the
plans
for
the
proceeds
for
the
anticipated
savings?
The
3.5
or
are
there
any
plans
yet.
E
D
A
G
D
It
is
a
policy
we
set
as
a
city.
It
is
also
one
of
the
factors
that
goes
into
our
credit
rating.
So
when
the
credit
rating
agencies
look
at
us,
they
obviously
look
at
financial
management.
They
look
how
much
revenue
we
generate.
They
look
how
we're
sort
of
run
as
a
city.
They
also
look
at
what
are
the
debt
policies
you
have
in
place
and
one
of
which
is
sort
of
you
limit
the
amount
of
debt
you
take
out
every
year,
which
they
view
as
a
credit
positive.
C
G
I
I
I
think
justin
mentioned
this,
but
so
we
have
the
seven
percent
policy
limit
of
how
much
of
the
annual
operating
budget
can
go
to
debt
service,
and
you
can
see
why
you
wouldn't
want
that
to
be
too
big
because
it
would
crowd
out
everything
else,
but
if
it's
too
small
it
means
we're
not
borrowing
and
we're
not
building
the
kind
of
infrastructure
that
we
want
for
the
city.
I
my
editorial
comment
is
what
justin
mentioned
that
we
only
actually
sit
right
now.
I
I
think
at
about
5.5
percent,
so
there's
sort
of
two
different
things
to
think
about.
There's.
What's
our
official
policy
limit
and
you
could
have
a
policy
argument,
whether
that
should
be
higher
than
seven,
whether
we
should
talk
about
eight
or
nine,
but
we
don't
actually
live
up
to
seven
right
now.
We
we
don't
effectively
borrow
as
much
money
as
we
plan
to
borrow
in
our
capital
plan
and
because
of
that,
we
don't
actually
even
hit
the
seven
percent
limit.