►
From YouTube: Committee on Ways & Means on November 29, 2018
Description
Docket #1514 - Order for a hearing regarding Corporate Tax Break Transparency in the City of Boston
A
Sorry,
excuse
me
so
we're
here
regarding
docket
one
five,
one
four
order
for
a
hearing
regarding
corporate
tax
break
transparency
in
the
city
of
Boston
I'd
like
to
remind
folks
this
is
a
public
hearing
being
broadcast
live
in
taped
on
our
CN
80
to
Comcast,
channel
eight
Verizon
1964
and
streamed
on
Boston
gov
backslash
City,
Council
TV
I'd,
ask
folks
in
the
chamber
to
silence
their
electronic
devices
at
the
conclusion
of
the
administration's
presentations
questions
from
my
my
colleagues,
we
will
take
public
testimony.
There
is
a
sign-in
sheet
to
my
left
by
the
door.
A
I'd
also
like
to
introduce
my
colleagues
in
order
of
their
arrival
to
my
left,
the
sponsor
of
today's
hearing,
what
a
council
Michele
Wu
to
my
left
to
do
his
message
next.
So
my
far
left
is
councillor
large
in
eSAB
and
George
to
my
far
right.
Councillor
Liddy
Lydia,
Edwards
and
Matt
O'malley
had
to
step
out
I'm
gonna
read
a
brief
statement
from
a
colleague
who
is
not
able
to
attend
today.
Dear
mr.
A
chair
I
regret
that
I
am
unable
to
attend
today's
hearing
of
the
Committee
on
ways
and
means
regarding
corporate
tax,
break
transparency
in
the
city
of
Boston
I
believe
that
transparency
is
critically
important
in
ensuring
public
trust
in
our
city
government,
while
tax
incentives
may
be
a
useful
tool
in
attracting
major
corporations
to
Boston.
These
incentives
should
a
matter
of
public
record
look
forward
to
reviewing
the
recording
of
this
hearing.
A
Please
read
this
into
the
record:
sincerely
District
City
District,
seven
city,
councilor,
Kim,
Janie
I'm,
just
gonna
introduce
my
other
colleagues
who
have
just
stepped
in
counselor
Edie,
Flynn
and
city
councilor,
Michael,
Flaherty,
I,
guess
I'll.
Ask
if
any
of
my
colleagues
would
like
to
make
an
opening
statement.
Counsel,
Thank.
B
You,
mr.
chairman,
for
making
time-
and
thank
you
too
Laura-
oh
for
sure,
you
on
this
day
in
making
time
I
mostly
wanted
to
thank
the
administration
for
having
this
conversation
and
for
the
work
that
you've
done
on
increasing
transparency
throughout
the
various
agencies
than
in
multiple
conversations
together
on
all
different
facets
of
this.
So
I'm
eager
to
dig
in
on
the
corporate
tax
breaks
framework.
I
also
want
to
especially
thank
Greg
Laroy,
who
is
watching
us
and
on
mute
for
now,
but
director
of
good
jobs.
B
First,
who
will
testify,
after
the
administration
panel
to
share
some
best
practices
and
and
suggestions
from
nationwide
advocacy
and
research
and
discussions,
as
well
as
Ethan,
ruin
Ethan
Rowan,
who
was
an
assistant
professor
at
Harvard,
Business
School,
who
couldn't
be
here
today
because
he's
teaching
a
class
but
did
submit
testimony
that
I
hope.
My
colleagues
will
take
a
look
at.
He
summarized
how
his
research,
which
focuses
on
the
impact
of
corporate
taxes
on
the
broader
economy
and,
most
recently,
finding
that
an
increase
in
corporate
tax
rates
leads
to
an
increase
in
income
inequality.
B
A
decrease
in
corporate
tax
rates
may
not
doesn't
necessarily
lead
to
any
sort
of
change
on
those
metrics.
He
is
testimony
very
much
points
to
the
need,
no
matter
whatever
the
policy
questions
will
be
on
where
we
offer
incentives
or
breaks,
or
packages
for
companies
versus
demanding
full
payment
of
taxes
at
the
baseline.
We
do
need
transparency
to
be
able
to
evaluate
for
looking
and
looking
back
about
whether
the
commitments
were
upheld,
we're
worth
it
for
the
taxpayers
and
the
residents
of
the
city.
C
Thank
You
councillor
siamo
and
thank
you
too
councillor
will
as
well.
I
won't
be
staying
long
for
this
hearing,
but
I
will
be
reviewing
the
tapes
later
on.
But
what
I'm
interested
in
learning
about
is
when
we
do
give
tax
breaks
to
a
company,
what
benefits
are
Boston
residents
getting
in
return?
Not
only
you
know.
Certainly
the
jobs
is
a
big
one,
but
what
other
services
are
they
providing
to
people
in
need?
C
Our
immigrant
community
working
on
public
health
initiatives,
public
education,
so
I'd
like
to
learn
more
specifically
on
what
programs
companies
are
providing,
what
the
success
rate
is
of
of
those
benefits
and
how
we
can
work
together
to
make
sure
that
you
know
the
the
residents
get
a
fair
shake
when
we
do
get
a
company
that
we
give
tax
breaks
to
that
there
is
something
in
there
for
the
residents,
especially
those
residents
that
desperately
need
our
assistance.
Thank,
You,
counsel,
clarity,.
D
Just
having
tenure
here
I
know,
the
previous
administration
didn't
always
do
the
best
job
of
sort
of
tracking
those
types
of
agreements
and,
in
some
instances
later
on
in
the
agreement,
you'd
see
some
horse
trading
for
other
things,
and
we
want
to
make
sure
to
previous
points
that
this
process
is
as
transparent
as
possible
that
that
data
is
readily
available
for
members
of
the
council
into
a
members
of
the
public.
So
we
know
exactly
what
agreement
was
made.
D
What
are
the
terms
and
conditions
of
that
agreement
and
make
sure
that
that
agreement
is
being
adhered
to
in
the
event
that,
whether
it's
a
change
in
administration
or
change
in
someone
in
your
department
or
whatever
that
there's?
You
know
that
that's
that's
an
agreement
that
gets
that
lives
throughout
the
entire
agreement
so
and
we've
seen
too
many
instances
of
an
agreement
that
was
made
and
then
10,
12
15
years
later,
that
you
know
there's
a
change
condition
or
someone
forgot
to
collect
or
another
deal
was
negotiated
in
lieu
of
that
deal.
D
That's
that's
never
good
for
for
for
our
city
when
that
happens-
and
it
quite
frankly,
is
something
that
I
think
here
is
those
that
are
responsible
for.
For
you
know,
we
have
a
fiduciary
responsibility
to
make
sure
that
that
doesn't
happen
so
again.
Moving
forward
want
to
make
sure
that
this
stuff
is
ironclad,
it's
in
black
and
white,
it's
clearly
accessible
and
that
we're
making
sure
that
everyone
is
honoring
their
agreements
and,
in
the
event
that
there
is
a
change
circumstance
and
that
person
has
to
come
back
and
renegotiate.
D
That
that's
also
should
be
a
transparent
process.
I
know
that
through
the
chair,
you
know
that
dealings
that
we've
had
with
chief
barrows.
That's
that's
how
you
operate.
That's
how
you
conduct
business
I'm,
just
putting
a
little
historical
perspective
on
some
of
the
issues
that
have
happened
in
the
past
with
the
previous
administration.
That
I
was
here
for
and
and
those
are
very,
very
bothersome
to
hear.
So.
Thank
you.
A
And
as
the
second
longest
serving
but
longest
consecutively
serving
councillor,
just
basic
I,
just
remember:
Liberty
Mutual's
tiff
back
in
2010
the
death
depth
of
the
recession.
It
was
really
a
tough
decision,
I,
a
ganache
Dover
that
decision
I.
Think
in
hindsight,
I'm
hoping
to
hear
results,
good
results
from
that,
and
at
that
time
a
new
term
was
added
to
the
lexicon
of
clawbacks,
and
that
was
one
of
the
reasons
that
I
could
get
to
YES.
On
that
particular
tax
break
and
I.
A
Think
every
single
one
is
unique
and
has
to
be
judged
on
their
own
merits.
I
also
believe
they
need
to
be
transparent
and
I've
asked
informally
over
the
years
about
the
results
of
Liberty
Mutual,
because
I
want
to
know
if
my
vote
was
correct
and
I
look
forward
to
that
testimony.
I've
heard
it
is,
but
it
would
be
nice
to
have
some
hard
data
to
make
that
in
more
informed
judgment.
So
thank
you
all
and
I'll
hand
it
over
Thank
You,
commissioner,
will
add
I.
E
Thank
you
for
inviting
us
today
for
the
record
I'm
Gail
Willett
Commissioner
of
the
assessing
Department
and
I'm,
accompanied
by
Nick
Aaron
ello,
our
director
of
Tax
Policy,
with
Amazon's
decision
now
made
about
where
their
new
headquarters
will
be
located.
This
seems
like
an
appropriate
time
to
examine
tax
incentives.
Much
writing
and
analysis
has
been
given
to
this
decision,
including
the
New
York
Times
headline.
E
A
2
million
dollar
question
did
New
York
and
Virginia
overpay
for
Amazon
New,
York
and
Virginia
collectively
offered
more
than
two
billion
dollars
in
tax
credits,
rebates
and
other
incentives
to
attract
Amazon.
That
figure
doesn't
include
what
could
amount
to
hundreds
of
millions
of
dollars
in
infrastructure
spending,
worker
training
and
other
government
assistance.
E
Boston
is
extremely
lucky
to
be
an
environment
where
the
scale
of
subsidies
offered
by
New,
York,
City,
Chicago
and
Denver
are
not
necessary.
Recently,
Boston
was
named
as
the
number
one
city
for
job
opportunities
and
growth
in
the
world.
This
combination
of
universities,
culture,
medical
advances
and
tech
talent
makes
Boston
a
place
that
businesses
want
to
invest
here
in
Boston
70%
of
the
tax
I'm.
Sorry
here
in
Boston's
property
tax
revenue
is
critical
to
the
city's
overall
financial
health.
70%
of
the
city's
revenue
is
generated
by
property.
E
Tax
collections
and
growth
to
the
property
tax
base
is
essential
in
covering
the
increases
in
municipal
costs
and
funding
of
new
initiatives.
The
city's
economic
development
strategy
strategy
must
be
compatible
with
this
requirement
and
generate
new
tax
revenue.
As
a
result,
the
expectation
is
that
new
development
will
proceed
without
incentives
and
pay
full
taxes.
E
Tax
incentives
are
considered
on
an
exceptional
basis
when
they
are
required
to
advance
Boston's
economic
development
priorities
where
the
market
does
not
support
full
taxes.
This
may
include
stimulating
economic
development
at
a
strategic
location,
assisting
a
project
with
unique
economic
or
construction
challenges
or
attracting
a
key
industry
or
company
that
will
yield
significant
and
employment.
The
agreements
are
listed
on
the
assessing
Department's
website.
The
majority
of
these
agreements
are
1:21
AAS
of
the
existing
1:21.
A
agreements
over
80%
are
subsidized
housing
projects.
E
Some
of
the
most
recent
agreements
are
old
colony
in
South,
Boston,
Orient
Heights
in
East
Boston
and
the
workforce
housing
at
the
Beverly.
There
are
currently
5
agreements
with
active
job
provisions
for
Tiff's
and
1
St,
a
two
additional
agreements
with
job
provisions
haven't
started
yet,
and
those
are
GE
and
the
Seaport
elf
for
parcel,
which
is
Amazon
for
TIF
agreements.
Job
numbers
are
reported
to
the
state
and
reviewed
by
the
assessing
department.
E
On
those
occasions
when
the
use
of
a
tax
incentive
is
appropriate,
the
incentive
is
structured
to
ensure
that
the
city
only
provides
the
level
of
assistance
required
to
make
a
development
project
feasible.
Additionally,
incentives
are
often
front-loaded
to
more
efficiently
improve
a
project's
rate
of
return.
A
dollars
worth
of
incentive
early
in
a
project
may
be
as
valuable
as
five
dollars
worth
of
an
incentive
in
year.
E
Ten,
this
approach
often
results
in
a
shorter
term
for
the
incentive
resulting
in
a
project
contribution,
contributing
its
full
tax
potential
more
quickly,
so
for
comparison,
New,
York
and
Virginia
offered
two
billion
in
subsidies.
The
other
city
Nashville
Tennessee,
provided
Amazon
with
a
hundred
and
two
million
in
subsidies
for
only
five
thousand
jobs
in
Boston,
the
C
fort
the
Seaport
L.
Four
agreement
has
a
total
potential
of
five
million
dollars,
and
only
if
all
the
job
goals
are
met.
E
The
level
of
discount
granted
relates
directly
to
the
number
of
net
new
jobs
realized
if
Amazon
fails
to
meet
at
least
half
of
the
requisite
targets
in
a
given
year.
The
discount
for
that
year
drops
to
zero
in
the
event
of
the
job
target
of
being
less
than
50%
in
two
consecutive
years
after
the
construction
and
stabilization
period
is
over,
then
the
agreement
will
terminate
and
the
office
will
return
to
regular
chapter
59
taxes.
G
G
F
That
going
for
second,
the
wanted
to
say
thank
you
thank
you
for
the
invitation
to
be
here
today
to
present
on
such
an
important
matter.
Boston's
attraction
and
expansion,
as
as
an
economy
in
the
city
of
Boston,
is
one
that
is
largely
driven
by
economic
growth.
You
heard
our
commission
to
talk
about
our
dependency
on
property
taxes.
This
is
something
that
is
really
important,
as
so
as
a
strategy
as
an
economic
development
strategy.
F
There's
a
growth
strategy
we
make
sure
to
take
great
deal
of
not
eroding
the
tax
break,
the
tax
base,
and
so
growing
the
tax
base
and
growing
jobs,
and
increasing
economic
activity,
in
fact,
is
at
the
heart
of
our
incentive
strategy.
As
you
know,
Boston
has
been
growing
and
as
if
you
and
I'll
add
to
some
of
the
stats
that
you've
already
heard
we're
growing
and
was
growing
in
a
smart
way.
The
US
Chamber
of
Commerce
named
Boston
the
number
one
city
in
the
nation
for
fostering
innovation
in
entrepreneurial
growth.
F
Over
nine
point,
three
billion
dollars
of
active
development
is
currently
under
construction.
In
2018
we
have
added
another
6.8
billion
in
our
pipeline
well
ahead
of
last
year,
and
that
has
an
in
on
its
own
an
estimated
growth
of
12,000
jobs,
550
5.4
million
square
feet
of
new
development
worth
26
point.
Five
billion
dollars
has
been
approved
since
2014
Boston's
growing
and
in
planning
for
our
growth
across
the
city.
F
F
We
maintain
a
priority
of
offering
incentives
that
we'll
continue
to
promote
Boston's
growth
in
a
smart
and
sustainable
manner,
while
avoiding
putting
anything
on
the
table
that
will
needlessly
erode
Boston's
tax
base
more
than
70
percent.
As
you've
heard
of
the
city's
revenues
come
from
property
taxes
and
we
keep
that
top
of
mind.
Growth
of
property
taxes
is
essential
for
covering
escalating
municipal
costs
and
funding
new
initiatives.
Tax
incentive
policies
must
balance
the
desire
to
stimulate
job
growth
and
economic
activity,
with
the
need
for
fiscal
integrity
and
performance.
F
Our
approach
has
been
successful.
We
need
it
when
we
need
it.
We
have
updated
and
modified
agreements
to
ensure
success
or
add
a
clap,
clawbacks
or
my
favorite
made
sure
to
have
real,
clear
performance
goals
in
order
for
people
to
get
the
kind
of
incentives
that
we've
laid
up
here
are
some
examples.
Vertex
the
vertex
deal
helped
to
spur
a
seaport
boom.
In
fact,
pop
property
values
have
grown
since
that
time.
F
Although
agreements
expired
in
mid
2018,
the
the
twelve
million
dollars
in
property
savings
over
the
seven
years,
the
property
will
generate-
and
this
is
vertex
55
million
dollars
in
property
taxes
over
that
term.
It
rot.
It
brings
a
one
point:
a
hundred
thousand
two
hundred
existing
jobs
will
be
retained
in
Massachusetts,
because
if
you
remember
vertex,
the
vertex
circumstance
was
they
were
looking
to
leave
the
state
we
kept.
We
kept
a
thousand
two
hundred
jobs.
F
The
Liberty
Mutual
deal
created
six
hundred
new
jobs
at
a
time
when
the
economy
was
not
creating
jobs
and
allowed
Liberty
Mutual
to
expand
its
operations
in
this
in
its
head
quote
at
the
headquarters
in
the
city
of
Boston
versus
moving
out
of
state,
the
16
million
dollar
property
tax
savings
over
20
years
still
projects
that
Liberty
Mutual
will
pay
fifty
point,
seven
million
over
the
same
term.
So,
mr.
F
chairman,
you
asked
a
question
and
in
my
assertion-
and
the
numbers
show
it
that
was
a
that
was
a
smart
vote
and
in
fact,
Boston
was
able
to
collect
always
able
to
collect
fifty
point,
seven
million
dollars
over
that
same
term,
where
we
provide
an
incentive
for
the
mistake.
The
GE
Dale
Boston
established
Boston
GE,
established
its
headquarters
in
Boston,
came
to
Boston,
chose
Boston
and
will
bring
800
new
jobs
to
Boston
the
development,
also
renovates
to
historic
buildings
in
Boston
and
puts
a
signature
headquarters.
F
Building
on
land
currently
used
for
parking,
the
25
million
dollar
incentive
over
20
years
is
gonna.
Bring
us
800
new
jobs
and
GE
over
that
same
period
of
time
will
pay
forty
eight
million
dollars
in
taxes
GE
in
the
first
five
years
of
being
here
will
also
contribute.
Fifty
million
dollars
in
philanthropic
donations,
twenty-five
million
of
which
went
directly
to
bps
jeeps
ge,
is
contributing
to
the
resiliency
fund
in
the
four-point
channel
area
and,
as
you
know,
is
as
designed
and
promised
to
build
a
an
extremely
resilient
building.
F
Amazon
deal
the
agreement
that
the
city
negotiated
with
Amazon
in
fact
covers
19
years
and
you've
heard
you've
heard
the
number.
So
I
won't,
I
won't
go
over
the
numbers,
but
the
the
deal
with
amazon,
in
fact,
is
special,
because,
with
the
amazon
incentives,
we
were
able
to
tie
the
linkage
dollars
that
will
be
produced
from
the
construction
of
the
500,000
square
feet,
building
to
customizing
a
workforce
development
program
for
Boston
residents,
so
that
we
can
create
a
pipeline
of
talent
for
the
2,000
jobs.
That
Amazon
will
bring
really
important.
F
We
continue
to
tie
our
deals
for
any
kind
of
corporate
incentive
to
the
benefit
of
Boston
residents.
I
was,
as
was
asked
here
earlier,
and
that
we're
able
to
codify
it
and
make
sure
that
we
can
track
him.
On
the
other
side,
you
heard
that
most
of
the
deals,
though
most
of
the
incentive
packages,
are
going
to
create
affordable
housing
in
Boston,
not
to
corporations
over
80%
of
our
incentives
go
to
affordable
housing,
one
that
I
was
mentioned
that
one
that
was
mentioned
that
I'd
like
to
talk
about
is
the
Beverly
which
creates
workforce
housing.
F
The
Beverly
creates
workforce
housing
and
for
a
portion
of
15
years
we
provided
some
incentives.
What
then
it's
an
opportunity
for
them
to
extend
to
23
years
and
no
taxes
will
be
paid
in
the
first
three
years
unless
the
project
is
fully
operational,
at
which
case
the
payment
will
equal
1.5
percent
of
the
gross
residential
income
for
the
following
20
years.
F
Taxes
are
based
on
gross
residential
income
and
increase
from
one
point,
five,
all
the
way
to
seven
point:
five
of
gross
income
for
the
retail
and
hotel
portion
of
that
deal,
which
is
also
15
years,
no
taxes
for
the
first
three
years
unless
the
project
becomes
fully
operational,
but
immediately
as
soon
as
it
becomes
fully
operational.
It'll
pay,
chapter
59
taxes
and
for
the
following
15
years
will
be
subjects
with
chapter
59
taxes.
F
There
are
a
slew
of
companies,
some
of
which
I
have
here,
but
I
will
not
list
that
have
come
to
Boston
because
of
some
of
these
catalytic
investments
that
we
have
made
or
incentives
that
we
have
laid
out.
That
I
think
in
and
of
itself
has
provided
a
return
for
Boston
and
Boston
residents,
but
then
tell
a
bigger
picture.
F
When
you
look
at
all
the
other
jobs
that
we
were
able
to
bring
to
Boston
and
other
companies
that
have
followed
over
3
year
period,
Boston
was
over
to
be
able
to
create
or
attract
over
80,000
new
jobs
to
our
city,
I'll,
say
again,
I
think
our
approach
to
incentive
packages
in
Boston,
as
you've
heard
from
our
Commissioner
being
different
from
other
cities,
has
been
successful.
We
look
forward
to
having
and
continue
the
conversation
with
you
on
how
we
can
to
look
at
them
and
make
sure
that
they
are
more
transparent
to
the
residents.
B
A
A
Joe
just
to
follow
up
a
little,
you
know,
I
think
Liberty
Mutual
to
me
was
traumatic
at
that
time,
because
I
can't
it
took
me
a
while
to
come
to
terms
with
it.
We
were
laying
off
workers.
We
were
talking
about
closing
schools,
libraries,
it
was
a
bad
time
and,
as
I
said,
I
agonized
over
that
vote.
What,
when
you
analyze
the
success?
A
Obviously
you
have
to
base
it
on
what
we
were
getting
for
property
tax
revenue
from
that
property
at
that
time
and
if
I
remember
correctly,
Salvation
Army
was
a
a
tenant.
Maybe
it
was
exempt.
There
were
other
many
other
again
unique
factors.
Maybe
to
this
particular
site,
do
you
have
a
have
you
ever
projected
what
we
were
getting
there
for
a
projection
of
what
we
would
have
got
for
us
is
I,
would
you
say,
for
total,
say,
tax
revenue
coming
out
of
that
site
now.
F
I
A
A
B
You
mr.
chair
I
have
a
lot
of
questions.
So
just
cut
me
up
and
I'll
glue.
Second
around
any
time,
so
I
guess
just
starting
top-level.
We
talked
about
you
and
your
presentations.
You
very
helpfully
out
mentioned
Tiff's
sta
agreements,
stas
121,
a's
and
b's
the
I
cubed.
Are
there
any
other
categories
of
tax
breaks
or
incentive
tools
for
the
city.
B
And
would
it
be
possible
just
to
get
a
list
I
know
on
the
on
the
city
website?
You
can
kind
of
piece
together
here
and
there
of
each
agreement,
even
ones
that
are
no
longer
active,
but
just
of
the
current
active
agreements
that
are
being
monitored
and
tracked
at
this
time
across
all
of
those
categories,
we'll.
B
I
The
121
a
and
121
B
incentives,
while
the
the
agreements,
the
tax
agreements
and
arrangements,
are
done
through
the
city
of
Boston.
They
are
also
implemented
through
the
BPD
a
so
the
way
it
works.
Chapter
121,
a
of
the
mass
general
laws,
lays
out
a
statutory
scheme
of
when
and
how
a
project
might
qualify
for
a
121
a
and
not
only
is
there
a
way
to
set
the
taxes,
the
real
estate
taxes
so
that
they
are
predictable,
but
it's
also
a
way
of
streamlining
a
project
for
permitting
and
building.
I
In
exchange
for
the
streamline
permitting
and
the
tax
the
tax
exemption
from
full
real
estate
taxes,
a
project-
then
many
burdens
it.
It
has
regulatory
control
by
the
BR
a
so
that
anytime,
it
transfers
it
refinances.
It
makes
any
changes
to
the
physical
portions
of
the
project
or
project
site.
It
must
come
back
for
br
a
approval
and,
in
addition,
the
developer,
the
owner
of
the
of
the
development,
cannot
receive
more
than
an
8%
return
restriction
every
year.
So
there
are
benefits
and
burdens
under
the
121,
a
it's
highly
regulated.
I
I
I
Then
a
regulatory
agreement
with
the
BR
a
is
entered
into
to
for
the
BR
a
to
be
to
be
able
to
monitor
all
the
different
changes
that
we
just
discussed
and
a
six
a
contract
is
the
payment
in
lieu
of
of
contract
tax
arrangement
that
is
made
with
the
city
and
that
is
signed
and
executed
with
the
city.
All
of
these
documents
that
I'm
referring
to
the
6a
contracts
are
online.
Everything
else
is
filed
with
the
city
clerk,
so
all
of
those
documents
have
been
and
are
publicly
available.
So.
I
Completely
different,
so
so
121
a
is
its
own.
Like
I,
said
statutory
scheme,
121
B,
when
we,
when
we
are
referring
to
121
B
agreements,
it's
actually
referring
to
the
B
Ras,
enabling
legislation
whereby,
if
the
B
RA
has
a
property
interest
in
a
development
or
a
project,
it
will
allow,
because
the
B,
RA
and
under
are
enabling
legislation
were
allowed
to
have
pilot
agreements
with
the
city.
I
B
And
then
just
my
last
one
for
this
round,
both
the
121
aids
and
121
b's.
What
is
reporting
look
like
and
are
those
publicly
available
after
the
so
the
agreements
you
said
are
available
and
but
year
after
year
to
check
up
on
the
6a
contracts
and
whether
the
terms
have
been
met.
Is
there
any?
What
is
reporting
and
can
we
could
we
access
it
on
our
own
or
where
does
where?
Is
it
kept?
B
I
Though
the
reporting
is
really
that
you're
referring
to
might
be
through
a
six
a
contract
or
a
regulatory
agreement,
but
there's
we're
not
monitoring
anything
ongoing
like
job
creation
under
this
type
of
of
a
tax
incentive,
because
this
is
really
about
permitting
and
getting
a
building
built
in
terms
of
the
BPD
side
of
it.
And
then
the
city
side
is
the
tax
incentive.
So
once
the
building
is
built
other
than
you
know,
they're
restricted
in
terms
of
what
they
can
be
used
for
based
on
what
they
were.
I
B
I
I
A
H
E
I
That
stands
for
district
improvement,
financing.
It
comes
from
the
state's
economic
assistance,
cording
council,
there
Egypt
program
economic
development,
incentive
program,
that's
run
by
the
state
and
what
it?
What
it
allows
a
city
or
town
to
do
is
to
define
an
area
where
by
they
would
help
the
property
taxes,
then
they
can
raise
bonds,
use
the
money
from
the
property
of
the
future
property
taxes
to
pay
down
to
to
pay
back
the
bond,
and
then
the
bond
can
be
used
for
infrastructure
or
others.
So.
F
H
Yeah,
no
thank
you.
Chief
I!
Don't
want
to
waste
up
too
much
time
on
that.
It's
just
very
interesting,
and
then
you
mentioned
sort
of
the
difference
between
121
A's
and
121
B's,
both
of
which
the
BPD
a
would
vote
so
that
the
account,
if
I,
have
this
correct,
the
council
would
vote
on
sort
of
some
tax
incentives
and
the
BPD
a
would
offer
some
stream
lighting
of
the
at
least
with
the
121,
a
that's
the
stream
lighting
permitting
process.
These.
H
H
I
H
H
H
Okay-
and
you
know,
I
I
came
in
shortly
after
the
Liberty
Mutual
vote.
I
was
here
for
the
vertex
vote.
There
was
a
smaller
one
that
was
employed
for
actually
I
owned
and
operated
business
in
my
district,
which
produces
cards
for
key
cards
for
hotels,
it's
an
industrial
area
in
West
Roxbury
and
we
were
able
to
support
it
with
with
some
incentive,
and
it
was
good
to
see
a
locally
owned
and
operated
business.
H
Take
advantage
of
such
a
thing,
I
think
that
one
of
the
reasons
and
I,
don't
presume
to
speak
for
the
the
author.
But
one
of
the
reasons
why
it's
important
to
have
this
conversation
is
that
there's
a
real
feeling
that
these
corporate
tax
incentives
don't
always
benefit
folks
and
don't
always
aren't
always
used
to
the
benefit
of
the
cities.
So
I
think
anything.
We
can
do
to
increase
oversight
and
transparency.
We
ought
to
be
exploring.
H
We
have
certain
tools
at
our
disposal,
but
perhaps
there's
more
that
we
should
be
looking
at
I
recognize
the
fact
that
state
law
dictates
a
lot
of
these
things,
but
I
would
also
suggest,
or
perhaps
I
would
close
by
asking
you
given
the
economic
strength
of
the
city.
Are
we
using
fewer
tax
incentives
now
than
we
have
say
20
30
40
years
ago,.
I
H
J
So
just
a
couple
things
I
wanted
to
follow
up
on
some
of
the
comments
about
Amazon
I.
It
would
have
gone
to
East
Boston,
the
district
that
I
represent
and
I
can
say,
I'm
personally,
very
relieved,
it's
not
coming
here
and
so
I
just
wanted
to
put
that
out
there,
but
also
to
specifically
talk
about
some
of
the
the
transparency
issues
that
I
think
a
lot
of
this.
J
This
hearing
is
hopefully
trying
to
rectify,
while
it
is
governed
by
state
law
and
many
the
procedures
and
how
it
pushes
and
moves
under
121
a
for
example,
I
think
it's
it's
a
comment
on
us
as
government
agencies
to
recognize
that,
while
that
law
is
there
to
define
what
is
the
minimum,
the
fact
that
we
couldn't
be
more
transparent
isn't
barred
by
state
laws.
That's
my
understanding!
You
could
do
more
than
what
the
state
law
requires.
F
I
Also
part
of
the
I
think
part
of
what
chief
barrows
is
relating
to
as
well
is
that
when
companies
come
to
us
they're,
the
ones
who
are
requesting
the
relief
and
what
we
start
with
with
any
company
with
every
company
is
you're.
Gonna
have
to
show
us
why
you
need
it,
and
there
are
certain
tax
laws
that
allow
us
to
look
at
numbers
and
not
look
at
numbers
and
I'll.
You
know
I'll
leave
it
at
or
look
at
certain
numbers
is
what
I
mean,
and
so
it
becomes
it.
I
It
becomes
sort
of
a
very
delicate
balance
and
normally
what
ends
up
happening
is
you
know
the
full
value
needs
to
be
looked
at
and
the
timing
needs
to
be
looked
at
as
well
in
terms
of
how
like
what's
coming
up
for
the
next
tax
bills
or
when,
when
the
construction
or
whatever
is
going
to
start
in
terms
of
the
BPD
a
side
of
things,
the
any
projects
for
121
days
go
before
our
board,
and
so
they
have
to
be.
You
know,
they're
noticed
on
our
websites.
I
I
J
F
I
F
F
K
F
J
J
I
J
D
Conversely,
if
you
looked
at
fidelity
that
threat
was
happening,
they
were
sending
jobs
to
New,
Hampshire
and
Rhode
Island
a
regular
basis
and
the
previous
administration
sat
on
the
hands
and
didn't
do
anything
to
stop
them
from
leaving.
So
so,
when
you,
when
you're
looking
at
a
company,
that's
threatening
to
leave
I
think
that
that
formula,
you
know
that
pod
sort
of
those
metrics
and
those
deliverables
that
needs
to
be
clearly
defined.
D
We
can't
just
have
someone,
call
us
and
say:
hey
we're
thinking
about
leaving
or
where
we're,
leaving
and
they're
really
not
versus
a
company.
That's
as
you're
talking
to
them,
they're
sending
jobs
to
New,
Hampshire
and
Rhode
Island,
a
pretty
regular
basis
and
I
felt
that
we
should
have
sounded
the
alarm
on
fidelity,
a
great
Boston
company.
We
lost
hundreds
of
jobs
to
bordering
states.
That
should
have
never
happened.
That's
when
we
should
have
dove
in
and
said
hey
how
do
we?
How
do
we
make
this
right?
What
can
we
do?
How
can
we
help?
D
Why
don't
we
work
together
that
allowed
to
happen,
and
then
all
of
a
sudden,
we
have
a
company
just
sort
of
throughout
this
under
this,
this
threat
that
they
were
thinking
about
leaving,
and
then
we
jump
through
hoops
to
try
to
save
them.
Sorry,
I
just
raised
it
and
on
the
job
creation
side,
I,
think
that
needs
to
sort
of
almost
be
a
residency
piece
Chloe.
We
have
a
residency
piece
for
the
city
because
we
can
govern
the
terms
and
condition.
D
But
what
good
is
it
if
a
company
moves
in
and
they
bring
with
them,
their
entire
team
and
all
their
executives?
And
it's
not
just
about
creating
some
new
drawers,
but
so
we
want
them,
want
the
job
sort
of
at
the
higher
on
the
higher
paying
scale
and
I.
Don't
know
whether
or
not
we
can
incentivize
that,
through
a
very
specific
formula
and
again
I'd
used
the
example
of
GE.
That
was
a
big
score
for
Boston
to
be
able
to
pull
a
company
out
of
Connecticut
to
come
to
Massachusetts.
D
But
what
good
is
if
they're,
all
the
top
executives
are
all
just
flying
in
daily
and
those
jobs
are
going
to
someone
that
lives
in
you
know:
West,
Roxbury,
Dorchester
or
self
Boston
or
East,
Boston
and
so
I.
You
know
I
just
caution
that
you
know
we
need
to
kind
of
sort
of
figure
out
how
that's
gonna,
work
and
I.
Look
at
like
sort
of
vertex,
I
really
didn't.
Think
vertex
was
a
big
deal
at
the
time,
because
I
felt
like
we
were
poaching
from
our
neighbor
in
Cambridge
vertex
was
in
Cambridge.
D
They
had
lots
of
jobs
in
Cambridge
and
and
sort
of
they
kind
of
just
kind
of
crossed
over
the
Charles
River,
and
it
was
like
we
we
ran
around
town
like
it
was
like
the
Stanley
Cup
I.
Think
GE
was
a
big
score
for
us.
I.
Think
Amazon
was
a
big
score
for
us,
and
I
would
even
venture
to
say
that
and
I
know.
Chief
Barros,
who
played
a
very
active
role
in
landing
Reebok
I,
felt
that
that
was
a
big
deal
coming
up
from
whether
to
Kansas
Kansas.
D
So
but
I
just
you
know
a
company
moving
from
Quincy
to
Boston
from
Cambridge
to
Boston,
it's
kind
of
like
it's
almost
like
we
kind
of
stole
something
from
a
neighbor
versus
a
company
kind
of
coming
in
here
and
bring
in
some
real
on
foot.
So
that's
the
only
thing
I
would
say
on
it.
If
we
can
have
a
formula,
that's
clearly
defined
that
has
metrics
and
deliverables
and
make
sure
that
that
threat
is
real
and
try
to
do
our
best
to
keep
that
company
in
our
city.
D
I
think
that's
huge
and
not
be
sort
of
misled
or
to
the
phrase
I
use
as
rope-a-dope
spread
and
then
also
making
sure
that
the
conditions
it's
one
thing
just
say
that
all
they're
gonna
bring
some
jobs.
Well,
what
types
of
jobs
and
what's
the
what's
the
pay
on
those
jobs
and
I,
know
John?
You
did
a
phenomenal
job
in
negotiating
a
couple
of
those
deals
for
the
city
to
make
sure
that
that
was
in
fact
the
case.
D
D
At
an
event,
it's
it's
great
when
you
have
a
company,
that's
here,
but
it's
even
better
when
you
see
that
the
company
officials
are
participating
at
the
local
events
and
and
come
into
the
Gala's
and
come
into
the
auctions
and
and
stroking
a
check
to
support
the
local
causes,
whether
it's
the
the
Daniel
Mayer
Boys
and
Girls,
Club
or
DSN
I.
For
example,
anything
that
people
can
do
to
participate
in
our
communities
is
great,
so
it's
not
just
about
the
company
being
here.
D
It's
making
sure
that
those
employees,
hopefully
that
they
live
here,
but
that
they're
participating
civically,
that's
the
big
win
whenever
we
can
have
that
happen.
So
it's
roundabout
way,
if
you
have
any
thoughts
on
it
in
terms
of
how
we
can
decipher
whether
a
threat
is
real
or
not,
how
we're
looking
at
it
now
and
also
making
sure
we're
putting
pressure
on
that
those
jobs
that
are
coming
here
that
they're
the
good
in
higher
paying
jobs
on
it.
They're
they're
from
the
city
they're,
just
not
relocating
executives
from
a
neighboring
state,
yeah.
F
F
Companies
have
threatened
to
leave
in
fact
I'm
not
at
liberty
to
discuss
names
of
company,
but
there
was
one
company
most
recently
that
threatened
to
leave
unless
we
can
give
them
a
tax
deal
to
make
the
the
deal
work.
We
looked
into
numbers.
We
looked
up
to
Dale,
we
just
didn't
feel
like
that
was
true.
We
didn't
feel
like
that.
Our
tax
incentives
would
be
used
in
a
way
that
could
justify
a
deal
that
wasn't
equal
to
the
other
deals
that
were
happening
in
the
city,
and
so
just
so
so
you
know
council
its.
F
D
Asking
the
right
bit
and
I
think
then
through
the
cheer.
The
fallback
is,
is
the
abatement
process.
You
know
obviously
there's
a
there's,
a
commercial
abatement
process
that
can't
happen,
independent
of
120,
180s
and
tips
and
dips.
But
if
there's
a
company
struggling
or
the
tide
has
turned
for
that
company,
clear
that
they
can
come
in
sit
with,
you
explain
their
situation,
they
can
try
to
negotiate
a
higher
level
in
terms
of
a
bigger
sort
of
incentive
package
if
you
will,
but
they
also
sort
of
have
that
recourse
of.
D
E
Bait
meant
sar
about
value
they're,
not
about
the
financials
of
a
certain
company
or
a
certain
tenant.
It's
about
value,
so
you
can't
come
in
for
an
abatement
saying
that
we're
a
struggling
company.
You
can
come
in
for
a
Bateman,
saying,
I'm
overvalued
and
my
building
isn't
worth
this
because
of
the
market
and.
A
G
Say
thank
you
to
chairman
kimono
for
the
invitation
to
testify,
and
also
thanks
to
councillor
Wu
for
initiating
this
conversation.
My
name
is
Greg
Leroy
I'm,
the
executive
director
of
good
jobs,
first
for
a
nonprofit
nonpartisan
research
group
available
for
anybody
who
wants
to
try
to
improve
economic
development.
Incentive
programs
is
the
sound
okay.
Now,
yes,.
A
G
Disclosure
of
the
outcome
of
each
of
those
Awards.
That
is,
for
the
duration
of
the
deal.
If
it's
a
10-year
deal
or
whatever
or
there'd,
be
a
snapshot
every
year
of
the
progress
of
the
deal
or
in
terms
of
actual
jobs,
created,
actual
wages
paid
or
actual
dollars
invested,
and
so
on
and
so
forth.
So
that
everybody
can
see
the
deal
play
out
over
time
that
that's
what
we
mean
by
disclosure.
G
You
know
it
should
be
user
friendly.
The
data
should
be
downloadable.
We
have
a
big
database
up
on
our
website,
now
called
subsidy
tracker
where
we
grab
data
from
states,
cities,
counties,
federal
programs
more
than
a
thousand
are
all
in
one
place
now,
and
we
try
to
make
it
as
searchable
and
downloadable,
and
you
know
easy
to
understand
as
possible
and
we
encourage
every
everybody
putting
the
data
up
on
the
websites
to
do
that
as
well.
We
say
that
sunshine
is
the
cornerstone
reformed.
G
For
this
reason,
it's
the
starting
point
for
all
the
issues
that
I
assume
you've
already
been
discussing
here
today.
I
mean
I
heard
the
word
clawback,
I
heard
the
word
Cait,
HQ,
2i
I,
know
I
heard
a
couple
deals
mentioned
specifically.
You
know
if
you
care
about
equity,
that
is,
if
you
care
about
whether
neighborhoods
are
getting
fair
treatment
by
a
program.
G
If
you
care
about
small
businesses
or
minority
or
women
enterprises
getting
fair
treatment
from
incentive
programs,
if
you
care
about
small
businesses,
getting
a
fair
shake
compared
to
big
businesses,
if
you
care
about
your
you're
correct
your
city
council
district,
getting
fair
treatment
compared
to
other
city
council
districts,
whatever
your
metric
is
for
fairness
and
equity,
you
can't
get
from
you
can't
get
to
first
base
on
those
issues
until
you
have
sunshine,
that's
just
our
mantra.
You
know.
G
If
you
want
to
do
any
kind
of
cost-benefit
analysis,
you
have
to
have
the
disclosed
costs
and
you
have
to
have
the
disclosed
benefits.
You
really
just
can't
get
started
at
all
so
and
I
would
add
that
there's
a
liberal
left-right
consensus
on
this
issue
that
is
especially
libertarian
oriented
you
know,
market
oriented,
think
tanks
agree
typically
on
this
issue
that
we
we
all
need
to
be
able
to
see
where
this
money
is
going
and
what
kind
of
bang
or
not
we're
getting
for
our
bucks.
G
So
it's
really
not
a
controversial
issue
on
on
either
side
of
the
aisle.
Frankly,
I
would
also
add
that
you
know,
although
we
did
give
you
guys,
a
goose
egg
on
our
last
two
report
cards
that
either
one
in
2017,
because
your
tax
increment
financing
program
is
not
disclosed
online.
You
know
we
weren't
just
picking
on
Boston
or
your
state
actually
has
not
been
a
great
state
in
terms
of
disclosure.
Now
has
a
very
modest
form
of
disclosure
for
a
few
programs,
but
compared
to
many
other
states.
G
Massachusetts
was
a
late
state
to
start
disclosing
and
still
doesn't
do
an
especially
robust
job
of
it,
and
we
also
noted
numerous
other
cities
and
urban
counties
that
are
still
with
you
in
that
goose
egg
column.
But
I
will
say
this.
The
big
picture
is
that
many
more
governments
are
disclosing
much
more
of
this
information
now
than
ever
before.
We
started
grading
the
states
on
this
11
years
ago
and
at
that
point
only
23
states
had
anything
at
all
online.
Today
all
50
states
are
disclosing
to
some
degree.
G
G
This
is
the
way
in
frankly,
if
you
want
community
groups
and
small
business
groups
and
redevelopment
organizations
and
other
people
who
are
certainly
the
intended
beneficiaries
of
these
programs
to
have
a
way
in
to
to
begin
to
participate
in
a
more
meaningful
way,
giving
them
the
data,
so
they
can
see
where
the
deals
already
are
in
their
neighborhood
or
what
kind
of
spending
patterns
have
already
been
happening
is
exactly
the
way
in
its
it's
all
about
civic
engagement.
Frankly,
I
would
also
add,
because
I
always
get
asked
this
question
right
away.
G
You
know,
is
this
gonna
send
unfriendly
signals,
you
know,
or
will
this
hurt?
Our
business
climate
I've
been
publishing
on
this
issue
for
24
years?
If
anybody
ever
had
any
evidence
that
sunshine
had
done
anything
to
harm
any
state
or
city
or
county
in
its
ability
to
attract
deals
or
retain
jobs,
I
would
have
heard
about
it.
I
would
have
been
the
lightning
rod
for
that.
G
The
truth
is
the
opposite:
there's
no
evidence
that
any
sunshine
or
other
reforms
like
clawbacks
or
job
quality
standards,
harm
a
business
climate
I
think
they
actually
improve
it
because
they
they
make
it
a
more
democratic
open
system
and
therefore
more
resilient
and
more
effective.
I'll.
Just
add
one
other
overlay
on
this,
and
that's
that
there
is
a
new
government
accounting
requirements.
There's
this
obscure
body
called
the
governmental
Accounting
Standards
Board
gatsby.
G
It's
the
same
group
that
requires
cities
and
states
to
disclose,
for
example,
their
pension
liabilities
and
retiree
health
care
obligations.
Then,
a
few
years
ago
they
issued
what's
called
statement
77,
which
is
an
amendment
to
the
rules
of
generally
accepted
accounting
principles.
It's
called
statement
77
on
tax
abatement,
disclosures
and
pursuant
to
that
amendment,
to
GAAP
your
city
and
state,
and
probably
many
of
your
school
districts
and
so
on,
are
now
required
to
begin
disclosing
how
much
revenue
they
there's.
G
A
A
G
A
I
would
agree
with
you:
sunshine
is
the
best
disinfectant.
We
we
understand
that
I
see
the
deals.
The
deals
are
basically
their
their
PDF
Don
and
the
website.
So
we
know
that
deals
are
I
would
agree
that
measurable
goals
posted
annually
would
be
a
very
good
thing.
I've
done
my
own
follow
ups,
but
I
think
that
would
actually
be
a
good
story.
I've
heard
good
things
today
that
I
wanted
to
hear,
and
you
know,
I
did
look
at
your
website
and
I
did
notice.
A
You
grabbed
things
out
of
publications,
mostly
newspapers,
especially
around
Boston
I,
would
just
suggest
that
I
don't
know
I'm,
not
gonna
suggest
it,
because
I
don't
want
to
get
in
trouble
with
the
media,
but
I
would
I
would
look
at
our
website
and
analyze
what
we're
doing
that
way
rather
than
what
people
are
actually
writing
about.
Our
transparency,
just
just
the
thought
sure.
G
So
to
me
to
be
very
clear,
our
report
card
studies,
of
which
we've
done
seven
or
eight
now
and
our
databases
are
all
based
on
our
government
data.
So
if
a
city
discloses
its
deals,
we
scrape
that
data
clean
it
up
and
put
it
into
our
subsidy
tracker
database.
When
we
issue
the
report
card
grades,
we
look
at
the
website
and
we
call
the
program
manager.
G
So
when
we
gave
your
TIF
program
of
goose
egg,
we
contacted
your
program
manager
to
verify
that
there
was
not
some
obscure
webpage
that
we
couldn't
find
that
had
that
data
before
we
gave
you
the
goose
egg.
Similarly,
we
have
a
lot
of
data
now
from
your
state
because
the
state's
beginning
to
disclose-
and
we
grabbed
that
data
and
put
in
our
subsidy
tracker
as
well.
So
the
only
time
we
use
newspaper
records
is
for
mega
deals
that
has
very
large
deals
or
often
there
are
multiple
forms
of
incentives
put
into
one
deal.
G
We've
got
have
five
six
seven
incentives
in
one
deal,
and
sometimes
some
of
them
are
not
well
disclosed
enough
that
we
have
online
records
for
all
of
those
different
pots
of
money.
So
we
take
published
reports
which
are
based
on
officially
stated
government
estimates
of
the
incentives
at
the
time
they're
awarded
and
put
those
in
our
database.
A
G
So
we've
been
very
adamant
about
the
New
York
City
deal
that
the
value
was
understated
and
most
of
the
media
accounts,
the
actual
value
of
that
incentive
packages
at
least
2.8
billion,
not
1.5,
as
the
companies
press
release
would
lead
you
to
believe.
And
then
you
know
if
people
were
to
ask
us
over
time
to
look
at
the
outcome
of
the
deal.
G
We
could
certainly
do
that,
and
there
are
certainly
you
know,
we're
there's,
there's
a
large
body
of
established
practice
out
there
about
cost-benefit
analysis
and
the
Pew
Center
on
the
states,
which
is
another
organization
that
was
cited
in
councillors,
Wu's
original
statement
specializes
in
showing
states,
especially,
but
also
cities,
how
best
to
evaluate
incentive
programs.
It's
it's
not
a
perfect
science,
there's,
not
a
well-established
body
of
practice
in
that
space.
G
I
I'm
just
telling
you,
but
there
certainly
are
credible
tools
and
and
best
practices
out
there
that
we
and
pew-
and
others
can
point
you
to.
If
you
want
to
do
that.
For
our
opinion,
we
think
that
the
big
problem
is
that
programs
over
time,
I've,
gotten
deregulated
and
and
are
not
sufficiently
targeted
right.
G
If
you
agree
with
the
original
theory
of
an
incentive
that
it
is,
it
exists
to
fix
a
market
imperfection
that
is
to
address
something
that
the
private
market
is
not
doing,
and
but
but
we
want
it
to
happen,
and
but
it
won't
happen
until
public
dollars
reduce
private
risk.
You
know
bringing
a
grocery
store
to
a
food
desert,
bringing
new
skills
to
a
citizen
returning
from
incarceration.
G
If
you
agree
that
that's
what
an
incentive
is,
then
you
want
to
keep
the
eligibility
rules
in
the
targeting
criteria
of
the
program
tight
and
narrow,
so
that
you
could
be
confident
that
the
money
really
is
addressing
market
imperfections
over
time.
What
we
found
in
our
studies
is
that
the
program's
get
so
loosened
that
they
just
turn
into
political
pork,
and
when
that
happens,
you
you
waste
a
lot
of
money.
Great.
B
G
G
The
cities
that
are
doing
this
price,
actual
jobs
created
an
actual
wages
paid
or
obviously
the
most
important
things
that
and
the
things
of
highest
public
interest.
We're
also
really
a
key
on
the
issue
of
the
street
address
of
the
project
site,
because,
obviously,
that's
critical.
If
you're
trying
to
map
the
deals
to
look
for
Geographic
fairness-
or
you
know,
testing
against
other
criteria,
are
we
creating
jobs
in
areas
that
have
been
most
hard-hit
by
previous
plant
closings
or
mass
layoffs?
We've
actually
done
studies
where
we
lay
those
two
questions
on
top
of
each
other.
G
Are
we
creating
jobs
for
people
who
don't
own
a
car
can
get
there
by
public
transportation?
Are
we
locating
eels
in
areas
with
high
unemployment
or
high
rates
of
poverty
or
low
income?
Households
right
all
those
things?
You
need
the
the
geography
information
on
and
then
obviously
we're
also
keen
on
making
sure
that
the
reporting
continues
for
the
duration
of
the
deal,
whatever
that
is
10
years,
15
years,
12
years,
whatever,
so
that
people
can
see
the
deal
over
time
and.
G
So
Chicago
has
the
best
TIF
reporting
specifically
and
that's
because
there's
been
a
long
history
of
civic
engagement
on
TIF
and
Chicago,
but
I
would
also
point
to
three
other
cities,
a
couple
of
which
are
not
intuitive.
One
is
Memphis
Tennessee
where
they
have
what
are
called
pilots
or
property
tax
abatements.
Those
are
highly
transparent
again
because
of
a
lot
of
civic
engagement
and
New
York
City
and
Austin
Texas.
Those
four
places
really
stand
out
for
having
robust,
well
populated,
user-friendly
web
sites.
Great.
J
Questions
I
had
and
also
I,
think
council
ferdi
I
mentioned
about
the
jobs
policy
Commissioner.
You
had
mentioned
that
and
if
the
deal
had
gone
through
with
Amazon
that
there
was
certain
I,
don't
know
if
it
was
specifically
Amazon
you
were
talking
about,
but
there
were
certain
deal
breakers
or
forcing
us
to
go
back
to
59
taxes,
chapter
59
taxes
if
they
didn't
meet
their
jobs.
You
know
requirements
right
and
I
think
there
was
a
combination
of
the
the
testimony
here.
J
Those
job
requirements,
though,
are
they're
based
off
of
of
jobs
provided
for
Boston
residents
or
the
jobs
that
come
in
because
Mike
I
think
that's
following
up
with
Mark.
Had
excuse
me
what
clarity
had
said,
but
I
further
deeper
analysis
about
that.
So
if
they
say
that
they're
gonna
bring
50,000
jobs,
but
do
we
do
we
do
we
care.
F
F
You
counselor
I
just
wanted
to
make
a
distinction
between
the
50,000
jobs
are
related
to
the
second
headquarter,
as
in
Amazon
was
gonna
select
a
city
for
that
did
not
come
the
Commissioner
the
Commissioner
was
referencing
the
jobs
that
Amazon
is
bringing
to
Boston
mm-hmm
into
the
Seaport
site.
Okay,.
J
E
E
So
it
is
2,000
jobs,
the
when
you
go
to
our
website.
You
can
see
the
chart
that
lays
out
what
the
criteria
are.
So
there
is
no
financial
help
through
2025
and
then
starting
in
2026.
If
they
meet
50%
of
the
required
job
amount
between
50
and
59
percent,
then
it's
$75,000
sixty
and
seventy
four
percent.
It's
a
hundred
thousand
dollars
up
to
the
up
to
four
hundred
and
sixteen
thousand
dollars
if
they
meet
it
fully.
E
J
E
J
F
J
F
So
we
are
in
conversation
with
Amazon's
HR
team,
and
it
will
be
meeting
with
them
shortly,
because
we
anticipate
an
eight,
an
RFP
going
out,
maybe
sometime
in
the
spring,
to
bring
in
partners
so
that
they
can
actually
use
them.
The
linkage
money
to
create
a
workforce,
development
and
placement
program
to
place
Boston
residents
in
those
jobs.
This
is
the
first
time
we've
ever
done
it.
We
hope
that
this
will
be
yeah.
I
anticipate
this
would
be
very
successful
and
we'll
continue
to
do
this
for
other
sites.
That's.
J
Wonderful,
how
we
monitor
that,
how
that
becomes
implemented
as
a
policy
is
really
important,
especially
if,
if
they
just
met
those
2,000
jobs,
we
may
not
be
inclined
to
go
and
look
at
those
numbers
right
Mike.
My
concern
is
that
we're
just
going
to
be
satisfied
with
the
2,000
jobs
and
and
not
do
the
deeper
dive.
It's
great
that
you
started
that
conversation
linkage
is
going
into
a
general
fund
for
job
development.
Wonderful
that
they're
going
to
try
and
streamline
some
for
this
particular
one
linkage
does
go
on.
F
This
one
we,
we
are
tying
the
linkage
funds
to
those
jobs.
Okay,
so
we
are
gonna,
tie
the
linkage
that
the
new
construction
creates
to
those
jobs
and
specifically
work
with
Amazon,
not
just
dad
not
just
bringing
the
jobs.
They're
gonna
work
with
us
and
the
agreement
is
they
will
provide
the
job
descriptions
ahead
of
time.
They
will
provide
the
skills
that
they're
looking
for.
F
We
will
then
recruit
Boston
residents
and
train
them
based
on
the
prescription
of
Amazon
and
what
they're
looking
for
for
these
jobs,
and
then
we
will
work
with
Amazon
to
place
them
in
these
jobs,
and
then
we
will
return
with
a
public
report
on
the
effectiveness
of
that
and
make
sure
that
that's
available,
because
we
intend
to
to
make
this
a
scalable
program
for
that
when
we
bring
in
jobs
particularly
called
the
incentive
side
to
them.
That,
in
fact,
we're
trying
to
make
sure
as
many
Boston
residents
get
those
jobs.
J
F
L
B
B
Agreements
so,
for
example,
and
a
lot
of
these
kind
of
are
looking
at
sea
port
or
a
four
point
area,
because
that's
where
a
lot
of
the
development
has
happened
recently,
so
it
let's
just
start
with
the
LogMeIn
agreement.
So
this
was
I'm
just
trying
to
look
at
mine
2014
for
13
years,
and
so,
if
you
can
give
a
quick
overview
of
kind
of
how
what
what
went
into
what
fact?
What
factors
push
the
city
and
or
BPD
a
to
air
tours,
offering
that
specific
set
of
incentives.
B
E
So
it's
a
thirteen
year
term.
Over
this
period,
the
exemption
percentage
falls
from
50
percent
to
10
percent.
What
they
are
doing
is
a
thirty
seven
point:
seven
million
renovation
and
restoration
of
a
hundred
and
seventeen
thousand
square
foot
building
in
C
in
South,
Boston's
innovation,
district,
creating
office
use
for
the
tax
relief,
two
million
in
property
tax
relief
over
the
thirteen
year
agreement
plus
state
investment,
tax
credits
and
what
are
the
benefits
of
the
project?
E
E
B
E
B
I'm
just
trying
what
I'm,
drawing
from
this
conversation
and
trying
to
walk
through
this
is
that
if
it's,
if
it's
not
sort
of
gathered
in
one
place
of
here's,
the
you
know
one
page
that
says
what
the
how
to
interpret
the
steps
relative
to
the
numbers
that
we
just
downloaded
from
the
economic
development
incentive
program.
It
would
be
great
I
guess
to
increase
our
score
on
this
or
whatever.
However,
else
people
are
thinking
about
transparency,
just
what
people
can
understand.
B
You
know
that
it's
true
that
I
think
it's
a
great
point
that
the
chief
made
there
aren't
that
many
of
these
and
so
to
be
able
to
on
each
one
of
these
tips,
because
there
aren't
that
many
they
become
a
big
deal
about
you
know
when
we
are
investing.
People
should
be
able
to
say:
okay,
here's
the
2018
look-back
relative
to
the
stepped
agreement,
and
then
what
what
are
the
numbers?
And
what
do
we?
Actually
you
know,
what
did
we
serve?
You
know,
surpass
the
goals
by
or
short,
or
you
know,
the
company
etc.
B
F
The
I
know
that
the
schedule
is
online.
What
we
could
do,
though,
is
following
your
line
of
question
is
under
is
help
you
know,
sort
of
figure
out
how
we
nuance
to
scheduling
right
and
and
make
it
that
it's
it's
frankly
more
honest
to
handled
by
the
lay
person
right
and
so
we're
dealing
with
this
all
the
time,
and
perhaps
perhaps
what
we
have
on
the
website
needs
to
be
more
user
friend
right,
and
so
that's
I
think
that
we
we
will
continue
to
we'll.
E
F
E
They
would
be
based
on
this
only
being
so,
this
was
signed
in
2015,
so
this
is
one
that
is
a
success
story
for
Boston.
It's
log
BN
is
that
we
have
a
building
that
has
been
renovated,
a
building
that
was
not
bringing
in
very
much
in
property
taxes
before
that
they
have
renovated
and
that
these
are
good
jobs
that
are
coming
into
the
city
and
that
they're
really
exceeding
the
I
think
what
we
will
find
is
that
they
have
exceeded
the
goal
that
we
have.
F
Set
I
know
that
Derek
seen
the
goal
they
started:
slow
and
they've,
really
ramped
up
and
they've
either
a
lot
of
people
in
short
period
of
time.
In
fact,
the
building
were
referring
to
as
a
building
that
had
been
partially
burnt
down
so
that
they
came
in
and
reinvested
in
in
a
non-productive
asset.
Increased
you
know,
increased
our
tax
rolls
and
we
helped
participate
in
that
improvement.
What
can
get
we
can
get
you?
The
information
that
you
looking
for
sure.
B
J
Think,
just
to
echo
councillor
boos
point
I
would
I
would
do
hope
that
we
could
have
a
working
session
where
we're
actually
bringing
folks
together
and
make
it
easier
for
us
to
define
transparency
with
you.
So
that
we're
saying
could
you
put
the
following
ten
things
on
the
website,
so
that
we're
saying
you
know,
including
something
I'd
like
to
see,
is
the
difference
between
the
tax
revenue
that
we
would
have
gotten
if
it
was
at
chapter
59
versus
the
revenue
that
we're
getting
under
the
current
agreement.
J
Just
all
of
it
just
just
a
list
of
all
the
things
that
I
think
community
members
advocates
would
like
to
see
in
a
working
session
to
put
that
out
there
and
then
we're
really
talking
about
what
we're
defining
transparency,
what
sunlight
means
for
Boston
and
then
I
think
that
would
really
help
really
help
to
close
this
conversation.
If
we're
just
defining
it
for
them,
and
then
we
can
get
it
up
there.
A
K
K
Thank
You
councillors,
chomo
and
rule
for
organising
this
hearing
on
a
very
important
subject.
My
name
is
Martin
rat
I
live
at
144
Beacon
Street
in
the
Back
Bay
in
Boston.
I
am
the
chair
of
the
Neighborhood
Association
of
the
Back
Bay,
but
I'm,
not
speaking
in
that
capacity
this
afternoon,
but
rather
as
a
resident
and
private
citizen
based
upon
my
experience
in
many
years
of
working
for
and
consulting
for
corporations
across
the
world.
In
some
cases
where
location
or
choice
of
location
was
one
of
the
questions
that
had
to
be
addressed.
K
So
I'd
like
to
bring
some
of
my
experiences
to
bear
that
I
hope
will
be
helpful
in
the
particular
context
of
Boston.
First
of
all,
let
me
say
that
I
was
delighted
and
very
impressed
listening
to
Gregg
laroy's
presentation
of
good
jobs.
First,
to
know
that
there
is
such
a
wealth
of
information
available,
which
will
be
very
useful.
K
However,
I'd
point
out
that
transparency
itself
is
not
an
end.
It's
a
means
to
an
end
and
the
end
presumably
is
to
be
able
to
negotiate
deals
with
corporations
that
benefit
both
the
corporation
or
perceived
by
the
corporation.
To
be
beneficial
to
it
and
also
benefit
Boston
and
perhaps
beyond
Boston,
even
even
Massachusetts,
I,
don't
believe,
like
some
people,
that
every
negotiation
inevitably
leads
to
a
winner
and
a
loser.
I
think
the
best
negotiations
lead
to
situations
in
which
all
parties
get
something,
maybe
not
all
that
they
want.
K
So,
unlike
some
other
parts
of
the
country,
I,
don't
think
we
have
to
go
out
of
our
way
to
try
and
persuade
people,
and
I
was
glad
to
hear
that
that
was
the
case
in
the
Amazon
situation,
to
try
to
persuade
people
that
they
can
almost
have
a
tax-free
environment.
There
are
some
places
that
compete
for
companies
to
come
there
and
they
do
so
by
trying
to
race
to
the
bottom.
K
K
Okay,
so
my
basic,
my
basic
message
here
is
that
we
want
to
make
sure
that
we
understand
the
motivations
of
the
people
that
we're
negotiating
with
in
the
corporations,
and
in
order
to
do
that,
we
must
make
sure
that
we're
very
intelligent
or,
if
I
might
slip
into
the
vernacular
wicked
pissah
smart
in
the
way
in
which
we
put
these
deals
together,
as
well
as
making
sure
that
once
they
are
put
together,
we
achieve
transparency
in
monitoring.
How
well
they
do.
Thank
you
very
much.
Thank
you.
L
L
One
is
I
would
not
want
to
take
away
this
a
valuable
tool
from
the
city
administration
and
the
council
for
attracting
businesses,
but
I
think
there
needs
to
be
a
definition
of
two
kinds
of
businesses.
The
larger
firms
in
vertexes
you
GES
versus
the
smaller
ones,
who
are
local
and
I,
want
to
speak
a
logic
to
the
first
category.
Businesses
number
one
I
think
they
need
to
measure.
As
councillor
Edwards
mentioned
the
residents,
the
neighborhood
members
participants
who
get
jobs.
L
We
know
that
we
have
income
inequality
and
equity
in
our
city
and
when
the
larger
companies
come
into
the
market,
they
need
to
focus
jobs
on
neighborhood
residents
primarily
and
they
need
to
be
measured.
Secondly,
minority
and
women.
Business
participation,
for
example,
ge
is-
was
mentioned
earlier,
as
building
promise
to
build
two
buildings.
L
What
will
the
MWBE
participation
be
in
those
in
the
construction
of
those
two
buildings?
They
also
have
supplier
programs;
they
spend
millions
of
dollars
on
of
a
wide
variety
of
services,
cleaning
cleaning
supplies
security.
All
these
things
that
our
local
businesses
can
grow
from.
So
I
think
these
things
need
to
be
part
of
this
broader
screen
that
get
to
be
measured.
I
was
relieved
to
hear
chief
barrows
mentioned
his
recent
model
with
Amazon,
which
council
Edwards
mentioned
about
tracking
local
jobs.
So
my
point
is
I.
L
Think
I'm
among
the
other
things
that
you
spoke
about
today,
two
other
things
you'd
be
measured:
local
residents,
jobs
out
of
the
2,000
or
the
600,
whatever
that
number
is,
and
we
need
to
track
women
and
now
a
business
participation,
particularly
in
light
of
the
fact
of
the
mast
board
model
that
was
included
for
the
Omni
Hotel.
The
mayor's
announced
that
that
would
be
part
of
the
disposition
of
land
going
forward.
All
these
things
should
be
part
of
your
measurements
and
I.
Thank
you
again
for
the
time
to
to
comment.
Thank.