►
Description
Overview and Scrutiny Management Board
Thursday, 8th March, 2018 5.00 pm
Councillors: Geoff Gollop (Chair), Charlie Bolton, Tom Brook, Jude English, Gill Kirk, Brenda Massey,
Graham Morris, Anthony Negus, Estella Tincknell, Donald Alexander and Steve Pearce
Papers: https://democracy.bristol.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=165&MId=2756
A
We
will
be
discussing
later
if
I
can
just
on
your
comments
about
transport,
service
and
and
worker
personal
view,
but
it
seems
to
me
that
weather
is
going
to
be
looking
at
a
strategic
basis
across
the
whole
of
the
combined
Authority
and
the.
Therefore,
all
of
scrutiny
within
Bristol
in
terms
of
transport
services
in
Bristol
is
going
to
be
very
important
and
therefore,
in
the
wonderful
way
you
usually
do
you've.
B
A
D
A
E
If
I
could
comment,
then
on
task
and
finish
group
to
council
commissioning
and
contracts,
I'm,
a
member
of
council
commissioning
contracts,
task
and
finish
group,
but
we
had
a
joint
session,
which
I
think
this
is
a
first
actually
with
the
adult
and
children's
social
care
task
group,
and
we
look
together
at
the
commissioning
cycle.
The
basic
question,
I
suppose
for
members,
was
involve
ourselves
and
make
our
contribution
from
the
ground.
E
Knowing
our
ward
members
knowing
our
wards,
how
could
we
make
a
contribution
to
that
Commission
at
cycle
at
a
point
at
which
it
actually
had
some
in
because
quite
often
it
comes
to
us
presented
and
we're
invited
to
tweak
it
near
the
end
and
and
that's
not
been
satisfactory
for
many
years
so
I
think
that
was
a
very
successful
event
really
Brenda.
Would
you
like
to
do
you
feel
it
was
successful
from
the
other
task
and
finish
group
Brenda.
B
B
On
next
is
going
to
involve
actually
working
through
with
guidance,
a
scenario
about
what
happens
when
early
help
is
needed
and
I'm
happy.
If
other
councils
wanted
to
come
along
and
be
part
of
that,
because
although
we've
got
a
core
group,
I
was
think
in
a
lot
of
cases.
Some
of
the
subjects
we're
discussing
are
actually
quite
beneficial
for
other
councillors
to
find
out
about
too
so
we're
trying
to
widen
it
beyond.
Just
the
initial
group.
F
Task
and
finish,
group
I
just
know
additional
information,
so
we're
eating
I,
think
we've
got
about
four
times
and
it's
been
a
rather
a
rolling
changing
agenda
at
the
parks
forum
have
been
working
independently,
with
the
support
of
officers
to
look
at
so
I'm,
putting
together
plans
to
start
a
foundation.
This
would
be
a
kind
of
fundraising
arm
of
parks
if
you
like,
which
would
try
to
bring
in
independent
income
to
support,
maybe
the
small
tenders
and
other
aspects
of
the
parks.
F
F
Meeting
but
we're
still
very
well
I'm,
not
clear
on
the
tendering
processes
for
return
during
some
of
the
concessions
in
parks
and
generating
income,
particularly
as
that
might
be
part
of
the
foundation
and
adverts
in
part.
There's
another
thing
that
was
brought
up
again:
it
will
come
to
be
coming
to
full
council
I
think
as
a
petition
shortly
that
it's
very
unpopular
in
the
city
and
also
not
a
huge
money
raiser.
F
So
those
are
in
themselves
quite
large
issues
for
relatively
small
task
and
finish
group
to
be
working
on,
but
you
know
we'll
keep
on
trucking
and
we
haven't
quite
got
to
the
bottom
of
what
it
is.
We
think
we're
going
to
be
doing
in
the
short
term
as
a
Tuscan,
finish
group
I'd
say
because
this
could
go
on
and
on
as
we've
you
know
talked
about,
so
I
do
think
it
needs
to
be
moved
up
to
a
another
scrutiny
arena.
At
some
point.
G
G
H
G
We
wanted
just
to
move
on
and
talk
amongst
ourselves
and
recoup
and
put
together
we
put
two
active
tasks
which
will
then
be
the
the
the
agenda.
If
you
like
the
formal
me
the
next
four
more
eating
when
that's
in
place,
so
nothing
I,
don't
think
I
really
ought
to
report
anything
because
it
wasn't
in
formal,
but
date
thanks.
D
A
I
I
I'd
like
to
put
it
on
record
I,
want
to
thank
all
of
the
community
organizations,
individuals
and
businesses,
who
have
contacted
myself
officers,
the
mayor
and
other
councillors
as
well
putting
forward
ideas
for
libraries
in
their
communities,
and
so
we
are
looking
at
all
of
those
as
part
of
the
overall
service
that
will
be
potentially
delivered
here
in
Bristol,
and
so
they
will.
That
will
form
part
of
the
report
that
comes
to
both
scrutiny,
tasking
finish
and
subsequently,
three
to
cabinet
the
timescales.
I
We
are
aiming
to
go
to
cabinet
with
a
proposal
for
the
summer
anywhere
between
June
and
September,
but
it
will
depend
on
the
agreement
as
it
sets
out
on
financing
and
the
proposals
that
we're
going
to
put
forward,
and
we
may
have
to
take
legal
advice
as
to
whether
or
not
we
have
to
go
back
out
to
consult
on
what
is
being
proposed.
So
I
have
nothing
further
to
add
at
this
point
and
happy
to
take
any
questions.
G
G
One
is
the
community
libraries
which
you've
just
briefly
talked
about,
but
the
other
one
is
the
rest
and
the
rest
is
the
ones
that
are
the
core
library
and
they're
the
ones
that
we
started
out
with
at
the
beginning
of
the
consultation
and
the
consultation
and
the
libraries
task
and
finish
group
and
the
motion
to
full
council
all
said.
No.
Thank
you.
We
need
to
look
at
something
which
is
going
to
be
much
more
comprehensive
and
look
at
a
really
different
way
of
doing
things.
G
G
Okay
right,
is
it
a
very
short
report
in
case?
My
second
question
is:
is
rather
more
specific?
You
will
know
because
I
sent
you
some
messages
that
there's
a
lot
of
concern
in
the
city,
about
the
loss
of
music
library
I'm
grateful
for
the
report
you
sent
and
I
have
to
say
for
the
speedy
response
you
made
on
this
and
I
think
that's
been
very
helpful,
but
I
think
it's
still
slightly
because
there
is.
G
I
Music
schools
have
been
moved
anywhere
because
the
final
decision
has
not
been
made.
We
have
been
having
conversations
with
one
of
our
neighboring
local
authorities
and
there's
a
meeting
set
up
to
speak
to
the
chief
exec
of
Bristol
music
trust
who
I
met
earlier
this
week,
and
hopefully
we
can
sort
of
sort
out
an
issue.
So
you
may
end
up
with.
I
Maybe
the
schools
might
be
split
between
Bristol
and
another
local
authority,
but
we
need
to
know
what
the
offer
is
on
the
table
from
Bristol
music
trust
first
before
the
final
decision
is
made,
but
it
will
have
to
be
made
very
quickly
because
the
the
intention
is
that
the
the
schools
will
not
be
available
from
Bristol
music
Bristol
library
service
from
the
1st
of
April.
But
we
will
find
a
solution
and
it
might
be
a
hybrid
solution.
G
Can
I
just
come
back
on
that
briefly,
if
I
may
things
that
seriously
worries
me
about
this,
is
that
I've
had
a
response
from
an
officer
that
refers
to
the
fact
that
the
so
little
use
of
this
that
it
was
deemed
that
we
could
actually
just
dispose
of
it?
You
can
just
to
set
the
context
here
as
I
understand
it.
This
is
about
a
hundred
meters
of
shelving
that
that
she
takes
these
D
scores
and
the
29
regular
requests
ease.
G
G
I
Having
the
conversation
and
I'll
be
able
to
give
you
an
update,
hopefully
by
the
end
of
next
week,
once
we've
had
the
meeting
with
Louise
I
can't
add
anything
more
to
that.
But
I
hear
your
point:
I've
seen
all
the
letters
that
are
coming
through,
so
you
know
we'll
take
we'll
take
all
of
that
into
consideration.
I
I
But
the
thing
is
what
we
we
can't
be
seen
to
be
doing
is
favoring
one
organization
over
another
because
I
don't
know
if
there's
another
organization
out
there,
who
has
a
another
idea,
so
we
have
to
build.
We
have
to
provide
a
put
in
place,
a
process
that
will
allow
communities,
organizations
to
actually.
F
Okay,
well,
that's
kind
of
my
point:
there
I
mean
we've
seen
with
the
music
library
section.
That
process
seems
to
not
be
working
because
I've,
it's
lots
of
emails,
saying
why
can't
the
music
just
have
a
so,
let's
move
them
for
that.
But
let
me
just
say
that
the
reformulation
and
the
REO,
however
it
works,
needs
to
be
much
more
effectively
communicated
generally
because
otherwise
I
just
don't
see
how
we're
going
to
I'm
going
to
do
it.
It.
I
Will
be
when
we
reach
when
we
get
to
a
point
where
we're
making
a
decision
we're
talking
about
buildings,
we're
talking
about
libraries
here,
we're
talking
about
you
when
you
talk
about
the
Bristol
library
service,
we
are
talking
about
schools,
sheets
of
music,
that's
something
different!
We're
talking
about
buildings,
assets,
resources
and
I!
Think
it's
and
the
Bristol
Music
Library
is
more
an
operational
issue.
It
was
an
internal.
E
Thank
you,
I
mean
I'm,
a
regular
user
of
a
local
library,
and
one
of
the
joys
of
it
is
the
fact
that
I
can
pay
a
pound
and
they
put
in
a
library
book
from
Exeter
University
or
from
Taunton
and
all
kinds
of
obscure
places,
and
that's
one
of
the
joys
of
libraries
West
that
we're
partners
in
that
are
more
able
to
share
things
and
so
I
think
there's
a
kind
of
slightly
parochial
strand.
To
this,
which
suggests.
A
Anybody
else
thank
thank
you
for
your
time.
Can
I
can
I
just
make
the
point
that
I
think
is
a
challenge
on
this
and
I,
hear
what
you
say
and
I
hear
about
the
timelines.
I
have
a
problem
talking
to
residents
and
other
uses
as
to
what
I
explained
to
them
is
happening
and
and
and
and
I
think
I'm,
not
alone,
I.
Think
that's
across
the
city
that
having
the
the
original
brutal
closure,
then
the
put
on
hold
and
and
people
saying
what's
happening.
A
We
were
thinking
we
were
going
to
have
to
gear
up
to
volunteer.
Now
we
don't
quite
know
so
I'm
so
I'm.
Only
just
sharing
with
you
somehow
in
the
process
and
I
and
I
understand
the
timeline,
and
these
things
can't
be
done
any
more
quickly,
but
how
that
message
is
conveyed
and
when
actually
may
well
determine
whether
those
libraries
that
have
to
depend
on
volunteers
can
remote
evade
those
who
might
have
been
prepared
to
volunteer
and
have
been
now
left
wondering
what
the
future
is
so
just
share.
That
is.
I
A
I
H
Not
much
to
add
to
what
others
Asha's
said,
but
just
to
say
around
the
timeline.
As
soon
as
the
report
does
come
back
from
mutual
ventures,
we
will
be
sharing
it.
We
will
be
sending
it
to
scrutiny
for
feedback.
We
will
be
sharing
it
with
with
councillors
to
hopefully
that
process
through
our
air
pool
and
possibly
may
will
inform
that
exact
timeline.
So
how
do
we
engage
with
members
of
the
public?
How
do
we
engage
with
community
groups?
How
are
we
going
to
do
that
so
I
expect
through
May,
April
and
May.
A
A
I
know
she's
riveted
by
the
meeting
so
far,
but
Rylan
keep
very
any
longer
if
we
can
look
at
the
planning
notes
and
if
there
are
any
technical
questions
in
respective
matters
in
these
notes,
then
now
is
your
chance
to
raise
them.
So
we
did
you
want
to
do.
You
want
to
speak
briefly
as
a
introduction,
I
suppose.
J
The
point
is
you've
made,
but
I
just
want
to
reiterate.
I'm
here
is
the
planning
authority,
not
as
part
of
a
the
city
councillors,
promoter
or
developer
of
an
arena.
Our
role
is
to
assess
planning
applications,
obviously
Gary's
here,
who's,
head
of
development
management
and
ultimately
advises
planning
committee.
So
as
and
when
we
have
proposals
for
alternative
uses
or
locations
for
any
development,
they
come
through
due
process
and
we
advise
and
give
our
opinion.
J
But
at
this
stage
we
have
to
be
very
receptive
and
open,
not
prejudge
anything
and
therefore
really
what
this
three
pages
do
just
set
out.
What's
happened
to
date
and
some
of
the
relevant
paragraphs
in
the
National
Planning
Policy
framework
and
the
relevant
local
plan
policies
that
would
apply
that's
what
we've
produced.
It
is
not
a
report
on
a
proposition
because
there
is
not
a
planning
application
in
the
system.
A
J
We
have
a
members
working
group
looking
at
the
local
plan
at
the
moment,
and
that
includes
allocations,
but
setting
that
to
one
side,
if
a
planning
comes
application
comes
in
at
any
time,
we
look
at
what
the
current
designation
is,
but
then
we
have
to
assess
the
application
on
its
merits,
but
we
do
have
to
do
it
in
accordance
with
the
development
plan
and
currently
the
development
plan
does
it
does
identify
it
as
employment
and
warehousing
so
the
first
assessment
would
be.
Should
it
be
retained
for
that
use?
A
K
I
sure
I
onto
that
one,
and
so
in
terms
of
the
KPMG.
If
this
was
the
initial
brief
that
followed
the
cabinet
report,
that
was
April
2017
and
it
was
the
brief
that
was
purely
the
arena
Ryland
site,
that's
one
that
we
went
out
to
the
public
with
and
I
shared
with
you.
We
have
then
changed
the
scope
of
the
brief
marginally
to
cover
the
alternative
site,
which
we
made
reference
to
in
the
update
report.
To
say
that
the
brief
has
been
changed
marginally
and
actually
it
will
recover
these
supplementary
site.
G
G
L
Answer
that
one
and,
as
Ben
said,
be
careful
not
to
predetermine
anything
that
might
come
in
because
that
would
be
based
upon.
You
know
a
specific
proposal
supporting
documents
such
as
the
environmental
impact
assessment
transport
assessment
and
as
counsel
Negus,
has
flagged
up
there,
a
sequential
test,
which
is
a
clear
requirement
of
the
National
Planning
policy
framework
and
you'll,
see
from
the
factual
note
that
we
provided
there
that
the
MPP
F
promotes
a
town
center
first
approach.
L
L
L
L
A
developer
because
we
get
proposals
from
developers
for
time
sensor
uses
in
in
either
edge
or
out
of
Center
locations,
and
they
have
have
the
right
the
ability
to
make
a
case
for
attention
to
use
in
an
alternative
location.
So
what
they
have
to
do
is
make
the
case
that
is
there
a
time
center
use
at
M
Center
site
available.
So
it
has
to
be.
You
know
the
right
size.
It
has
to
be
flexibility
over
format
as
well.
Is
it
available?
L
There
is
a
you
know,
discussions
at
planning,
appeals
and
public
inquiries
about
what
available
means
as
well.
So
if,
if
there
is
a,
if
there
isn't
a
site
available,
then
you
look
at
edge
of
center
and
then
you
look
at
out
of
Center
and
you
favor
out
of
Center
sites
that
are
linked
to
existing
town
centers
via
transporter,
as
well
as
we've
set
out
in
the
notes
as
well.
The
MPP
F
talks
about
and
find
it
paragraph
27.
So
this
is
in
our
paragraph
two
point
five.
L
So
this
is
just
a
direct
quote
from
the
MPP
F,
where
an
application
fails
to
satisfy
the
sequential
test
always
likely
to
have
a
significant
adverse
impact
on
town
centers.
It
should
be
refused,
so
I
think
that
that
sets
out
the
framework
of
that
assessment.
But
what
I
want
us
to
really
be
clear
about
is
that
assessment
will
still
have
to
be
gone
through.
G
G
Factory
here
is
that
there's
sale
now
of
part
of
the
original
site,
which
was
the
car
parking
and
sort
of
assembly
bit
of
the
site.
There's
a
visual
so
there
to
the
University,
which
it
could
be
argued,
the
stuffing
out
of
a
fifteen
thousand
seat
arena.
If
another
proposal
were
to
come
in
for
a
fifteen
thousand
seat
arena
and
there
was
no
longer
a
site-
a
viable
site
left
in
the
city
center,
perhaps
the
diesel
site,
which
would
support
a
fifteen
thousand
seat
arena.
L
So,
in
terms
of
what
we've
seen
local
planning
authority,
we've
we've
seen
one
proposal
for
an
arena
on
the
diesel
Depot
site.
That
was
a
full
planning
application
and
full
planning
permission
was
granted
for
the
fourth
that
didn't
include
the
full
diesel
Depot
site,
though
there
was
a
residual
piece
of
land
there
that
was
subject
to
an
outline
planning
application
for
a
a
mix
of
uses
in
a
particular
quantum
of
development.
That
was
also
granted
outline
planning
permission
at
the
same
time.
L
So
what
we,
what
the
committee
considered
at
the
time
was
city
the
headline
thing
was
an
arena
but
also
other
uses
on
the
diesel
Depot
site.
We're
now
also
dealing
with
planning
application
and
outline
planning
application
from
the
University
for
a
new
campus.
Obviously,
the
vast
majority
of
that
is
the
other
side
of
cattle
market
Road,
but
there
is
also
proposals
for
largely
student
accommodation
on
the
diesel
Depot
site,
but
the
the
piece
of
land
being
proposed
for
that
is
identical
to
the
land
that
subject
to
the
outline
application.
N
M
Settle
for
this
one,
a
roving
mic
but
I
may
go
into
cabaret
mode
chair,
so
I
must
warn
the
audience.
Do
so
I'm
going
back
to
2.4
on
page
18,
because
this
is
how
I
kind
of
wait
the
car
park
is
that
the
one
that
was
identified
initially
for
disabled
access
parking,
the
one
that's
potentially
being
sold
to
the
University
of
Bristol.
L
I
think
there
was
going
to
be
an
interim
position
where,
whilst
the
outline
land
was
going
to
have
to
come
forward
at
a
slower
pace
than
the
arena,
when
we
obviously
committee
looking
and
it's
a
couple
of
years
ago,
so
I
think
the
the
kind
of
interim
situation
was
that
there
was
going
to
be
some
temporary
car
parking
but
I
think
because
of
the
importance
of
disabled
parking
as
part
of
the
arena.
Proposals.
I
believe
that
the
disabled
parking
was
all
part
of
the
full
application
sight.
First.
M
M
I
seem
to
recall
that
the
developer
was
going
to
be
liable,
and
that
meant
Bristol
City
Council
for
improvements
to
transport
infrastructure
in
order
to
be
able
to
access
it.
If
hypothetically
it
was
built
somewhere
else,
would
that
also
still
apply?
So,
in
other
words,
if
Bristol
City
Council
built
it
on
the
edge
of
another
local
authority
and
their
road
network
and
transport
network
needed
improvements,
would
we
still
be
potentially
liable,
at
least
for
the
cost
of
those
improvements.
J
I'm
going
to
answer
is
the
planning
authority.
As
the
planning
authority,
we
expect
a
proposal
to
be
comprehensive,
addressing
all
the
transport
needs
and
all
modes
of
transport.
It's
not
for
the
planning
committee
to
be
concerned.
Who
does
that
long
as
that
it
is
done
and
in
place
by
opening
night?
That
would
be
the
planning
requirement.
Who
does
it?
Who
pays
for
it
will
be
up
for
to
the
promoter
or
promoters
to
work
through
well.
M
M
Everything
I
wanted
I
just
wanted
to
raise.
One
last
concern,
though
it
is
that
we
do
need
to
make
sure
that
the
thoughts
that
come
to
councillors,
particularly
those
who
want
don't
sit
on
planning,
do
also
look
at
things
to
do
with
material
planning
considerations,
because
I
know
that
on
planning
and
from
the
training
we've
had
and
the
extra
reading
I've
done,
that
the
the
cost,
the
cheapness
of
an
option,
isn't
a
material
planning.
M
Consideration
and
I
know
that
when
I
first
got
elected
in
my
on
the
edge
of
my
ward,
Bristol
Rovers
Stadium
was
in
the
was
a
judicial
review
stage,
because
people
had
complained
about
a
technicality
of
an
economic
impact
assessment
on
a
potential
Sainsbury's.
The
last
thing
I
want
to
see
his
Bristol
City
Council
get
bogged
down.
M
If
the
city
center
business
leaders
decide
that
they're
not
happy
with
any
other
proposal
to
get
bogged
down
in
some
kind
of
legal
argument
that
ends
up
costing
a
lot
of
money,
because
that
money
will
come
from
frontline
services
and
I'm
very
keen
to
make
sure
we
don't
end
up
potentially
wasting
money
taxpayers
money
on
on
getting
into
legal
stuff
and
I
know,
that's
nothing
to
do
with
you.
Guys,
I
wouldn't
expect
any
response
on
that,
but
anyway,
I
think
I'm
done.
Thank
you.
O
O
J
O
Trying
to
do
here
is
I'm
kind
of
already
knew
an
old
lawyers
trick.
Apparently
you
never
asked
a
question
to
which
you
don't
already
know
the
answer.
What
I'm
trying
to
do
here
is
identify
what
might
be
the
way
forward
for
this
site
and
this
location.
Now
as
I
say,
I
prefaced
everything
I'm,
saying
by
saying
that
I
don't
sit
on
a
Planning
Committee,
so
I've
got
I.
Think
I've
got
a
degree
of
latitude
that
other
members
may
not
have.
O
F
It's
a
question:
didn't
these
actually
so
to
get
back
to
the
brief,
which
is
kind
of
where
we
started.
So
what
I
understood
you
say
is
that
this
was
the
original
ask
of
KPMG,
which
was
just
do
have
value
for
money
on
the
arena
site
with
the
planning,
as
it
is
basically
saying,
camera
still
afford
it.
Is
it
still
a
good
idea?
Should
we
go
ahead
kind
of
thing,
yeah
and
then
you've
said
that
we
then
extended
it
to
say,
while
you're
doing
some
desk
based
research?
Can
you
look
at
another
site?
K
F
So
we've
extended
the
scope
and
now
I'm
interested
to
know
I
suppose
we'll
see
it
quite
soon,
because
we've
gotten
azam
on
the
12th
of
April
and
we
promise
it'll
be
with
us
in
good
time.
So
we
can
look
at
it
by
then
so
I'm
interested
to
know
kind
of
asking
a
question.
Our
dinner
dance
too,
in
a
way,
but
who
kpmg
are
speaking
to
about
the
extended
scope
and
the
extent
of
the
work
that
they're
doing
if
they
haven't
been
speaking
to
colleagues
in
Birmingham,
who.
K
F
D
K
A
Can
I
just
sort
of
sort
of
intercede
here
for
a
moment
because
whatever
we
may
want
at
the
end
of
the
day,
we
can
scrutinize
only
what-what
were
offered
and
we
have
to
be
realistic
in
terms
of
what
is
I
think
going
to
be
a
very
complex
report.
So
we
can
say
we
want
it
by
the
12th
but
and
I'd
love
to
and
I'd
loved
I'd
love
to
wine
Marvin
up
about
it
and
put
pressure
on.
A
But
actually
what
we've
got
to
be
realistic
is
saying:
how
can
we
engage
with
the
executive
in
this
report
when
it's
available
and
and
for
me,
I
would
be
saying
if,
if
that
involves
us
having
to
have
a
meeting
later
in
April
to
fit
in
with
the
process,
then
I
would
recognize
that
that
was
the
way
we
ought
to
be
going,
because
we
that
report
is
going
to
be
very
fundamental
and
I.
Think
it's
really
important
that
we
have
that
report
as
complete
as
it's
going
to
go
to
cabinet
not
looking
at
something
beforehand.
K
What
you
expect
also
outlined
in
here
that
this
will
need
to
be
a
full,
comprehensive
report
and
actually
ready
to
go
into
the
public
domain.
It's
all
clear
in
here.
It
covers
all
of
the
different
case,
and
it's
absolutely
clear
in
setting
out
that
this
is
not
a
cost
exercise.
Value
is
significantly
more
so,
whilst
I
recognize,
we
could
have
written
a
page
on
each
of
these
elements,
but
actually
the
key
point
is:
what's
the
quality
in
content
that
we
will
get
in
the
report
that
then
subsumes
from
this
exercise.
K
There's
lots
of
engagement
in
terms
of
actually
setting
out
the
scope.
The
detailed
plan
that
follow
this.
This
was
the
position
in
April
last
year,
based
on
what
we
knew
and
recognized
in
a
lot
of
those
details
about
the
outputs
essentially
was
already
in
the
public
domain.
Planning
submission
had
already
been
made
and
lots
of
those
details
were
known
in
the
initial
proposition.
What
they
need
to
assess
or
needed
to
assess
a
part
of
Dixon
exercises.
Will
those
objectives
still
be
delivered
so
setting
all
of
that
out
again
at
this
stage?
K
Was
would
not
have
added
any
value
to
the
procurement
process
now
I
recognize
that
in
extending
the
scope,
we
then
need
to
actually
have
a
look
at
an
alternative
proposition,
but
there's
a
comparator.
This
sets
a
benchmarking
comparator
by
which
to
compare
those
values,
those
outputs,
those
objectives
against
any
other
from
any
alternative
proposition.
E
You
what
you
just
said
that
the
purpose
of
scrutiny
is
not
to
set
a
timeline
for
the
executive
to
do
its
work
in
it's
actually
to
scrutinize
what
the
executive
has
done
as
it
produces
it,
and
if,
if
there's
flexibility
required,
we
should
be
the
ones
who
are
flexible
and
not
sit
here,
saying
what
date
will
have?
What
document
why
I.
E
Q
Q
Maybe
I
think
for
me.
It's
very
simple,
actually
we're
almost
trying
to
compare
apples
with
pears,
because
I
think
for
most
people
in
Bristol
a
bristol
arena
is
something
which
is
in
the
center
of
Bristol
accessible
to
all
Bristow
lian's.
If
you're
going
to
put
an
arena
on
the
edge
of
the
city,
it's
no
longer
of
Bristol
arena,
it's
a
West
of
England
arena.
So
my
second
point
is
I'm,
not
sure
how
easy
that
comparison
is
for
me,
Bristol
arena
has
got
to
be
on
the
site.
Weight
already
has
got
planning
permission.
It's
there.
Q
A
I'm
going
to
you
ollie,
but
I
just
wanted
to
make
a
point
really
following
on
from
from
John's
comment,
because
I
don't
necessarily
expect
an
answer
to
this
no
Danny's,
but
but
but
the
question
I
was
going
to
ask
in
terms
of
value
for
money
is
somewhere
in
the
calculation.
That's
got
to
include
jobs
and
what
it
creates.
So
so
the
question
I
would
like
to
know
in
due
course
is
whether
the
model
that
looks
at
a
situation
in
BRABUS
I'ma
hanger,
where
do
those
jobs
get
created
and
are
we
looking
at
this
John
said?
A
Is
this
a
West
of
England,
a
whacker
arena
where
it's
creating
jobs
across
water,
or
are
we
looking
at
a
Bristol
arena,
most
importantly
creating
jobs
in
Bristol
and
and
therefore
is
the
value
for
money
looking
at
the
benefit
to
this
area,
Bristol,
council,
taxpayer
and
Bristol
residents?
Or
is
it
looking
at
Weka
residents
because
I
think
there
is
a
time
when
we
have
to
be
a
little
bit
parochial
and
look
at
it
from
the
point
of
view
of
Bristol?
Oh.
M
Thank
You
chair.
It's
also
worth
noting
that,
because
I
was
on
both
of
the
committees
well,
both
meetings
of
the
planning
committee
that
the
arena
is
actually
going
to
mostly
have
people
coming
to
it
from
outside
the
old
Aven
area.
So
we're
not
looking
here
just
a
Bristol
arena
in
the
sense
of
it
being
one
that
we
want
people
to
be
able
to
access
from
every
part
of
the
city.
Although
we
do
want
people
to
be
able
to
access
it
from
every
part
of
the
city.
M
But
it's
going
to
be
a
bit
like
somewhere
like
the
Manchester
arena
and
I
visited
that
last
year,
when
I
was
in
Manchester
for
a
gig.
My
performer
wasn't
big-name
enough
to
be
on
at
the
arena.
But
it
was
interesting
to
note
that
Manchester
had
actually
built
their
arena
in
the
city
centre
and
not
an
old
airstrip
in
Lancashire,
and
they
had
actually
also
built
it
on
top
of
a
train
station
that
had
national
train
links
and
it
helps
people
who
are
going
to
it
that
you've
got
the
tram
links.
M
M
So
I
think
it's
just
worth
noting
that,
although
this
will
be
hopefully
a
great
thing
for
Bristol,
it's
also
going
to
be
a
thing
that
attracts
in
visitors
and
tourists
from
around
the
country,
and
so
it
would
ideally
be
located
somewhere
near
national
transport
networks
and
not
necessarily
somewhere.
That's
only
access
accessible
by
a
75
bus
and
a
bit
of
a
track.
M
A
A
Think
I
think
that
the
play
deniz
would
be
that
we
we
need.
We
ideally
need
sufficient
time
to
be
able
to
digest
the
full
detail
of
the
report
before
we
scrutinize
it
and-
and
that
may
be,
but
I
realize
that
we'll
be
putting
a
time
pressure
on,
but
with
publication
of
cabinet
papers
find
no
five
working
days
before
cabinet.
If
that's
the
first
time,
we're
able
to
see
it
and
we've
got
to
have
a
scrutiny
meeting
in
the
process
that
makes
it
not
impossible
for
that
to
be
a
constructive
meeting.
So
that's
that's
really.
A
The
plea
is:
can
we
find
a
way,
even
if
that
involves
members
having
confidential
access
to
information
before
it's
released?
Somehow
Ella
can
we
find
a
way
that
there
is
time
for
members
to
be
involved,
so
that
is
the
plea
Zoey
can
I.
Thank
thank
you
for
your
time
this
evening.
I'm
not
sure
what
the
protocol
is
between
offices.
When
one
turns
up
thinking,
they
might
have
a
difficult
time
and
another
one
gets
the
difficult
time,
but
Deniz
is
well.
Thank
you
for
your,
your
in-depth
responses,
which
I,
which
are
much
appreciated.
So
thank
you.
N
There
obviously
are
on
nuances
around
this
and
equally
the
same
with
the
principles
as
well
that
were
discussed
and
also
the
setting
of
work
program
has
felt
that
the
process
that
was
gone
through
last
year
for
deciding
what
item
should
be
on
the
work
program.
It
wasn't
quite
as
robust
as
members
would
have
liked
and
that
we
need
to
look
at
a
process
whereby
it's
much
more
of
an
evidence-based
decision,
so
that
was
kind
of
the
outcome.
I
do
hope.
We've
captured
everything,
because
obviously
it
was
I
think
from
an
officer
perspective.
N
It
was
a
very
positive
workshop
and
we
have
her
positive
feedback
on
that.
What
the
discussion
now
is
is
for
you,
as
the
board
to
decide
is
this
the
model
that
you
do
wish
to
go
forward
on
and
I
think
you
probably
need
to
reach
an
agreement
on
that.
There
will
obviously
still
be
further
details
to
be
worked
through,
but
having
done
that,
that
will
then
form
part
of
the
proposals
in
terms
of
the
constitutional
changes
at
the
May
AGM
meeting.
I
hope.
That's
a
summary.
B
But
we've
had
some
very
useful
task
and
finish
groups,
and
a
lot
of
those
are
still
ongoing,
as
a
hybrid
approach
is
definitely
one
that
we
feel
probably
is
the
best
way
to
move
forward.
So
I
would
agree
with
the
findings
in
here.
The
only
caveat
we
had
was
whether,
given
the
size
and
complexity
of
what
is
referred
to
in
here's
care
and
safeguarding
weren't,
entirely
convinced
that
three
meetings
a
year
would
be
sufficient,
but
I
think
that
would
have
to
be
something
that
he's
reviewed
as
he
progresses
further.
B
A
Think
taking
those
comments,
Brendon,
the
number
of
meetings
we
have
is
gonna
be
a
difficult
one,
because
if
we
go
to
natural
instinct,
we
will
revert
to
having
eight
meetings
of
each
commission,
which
actually
would
mean
that
there
would
be
no
capacity
for
task
and
finish
and
the
hybrid
pairings.
So
what
I?
What
I?
What
I
think
I
got?
A
If
that's
taken
active
scrutiny,
so
that
is
shared
with
the
wider
membership
of
council,
not
just
individual
Commission's,
then
we
have
to
be
very
clever
in
how
we
use
the
split
between
scrutiny,
meetings
and
task
and
finish
groups
to
actually
deliver,
and
that's
going
to
be
a
challenge
for
all
of
us,
because
we
we
know
we
haven't,
got
the
balance
right
this
year,
but
it's
it's
got.
It's
gonna
have
to
be
worked
on,
but
we
almost
mustn't.
Let
having
extra
meetings
become
the
immediate
answer.
A
We've
got
to
find
ways
of
delegating
that
work
to
to
task
and
finish
groups
or
to
select
committees
or
inquiry
days
or
whatever
to
make
them
work.
So
that's
gonna
be
the
challenge
and
that's
why
I
think
we've
got
to
have
some
we've
gotta
have
some
process
that
controls
the
work
program
for
all
the
Commission's
to
make
sure
that's
that's
effective,
charlie.
P
P
We've
basically
been
told,
you
can't
have
it
unless
it's
ready
and
then
we're
told
that
we,
the
scrutineers,
have
got
to
be
flexible,
so
you've
got
a
system
here
of
X
three
meetings
per
year
and
then
you're
gonna
have
a
presumably
we're
all
gonna
have
to
be
flexible,
having
other
meetings
or
what
I
mean
how's
it
going
work
anywhere
if
there's
been
flexible,
all
the
time,
I
suppose
I
suppose
what
I'm
really
saying
is
I'm
coming
to
the
conclusion
that
I,
don't
think
scrutiny
is
really
taken
seriously
here,
particularly
anymore.
I
hope
it
is.
A
View
on
on
comments
that
I'm
hearing
is
that
individually
cabinet
members
actually
see
scrutiny,
has
a
really
positive
role
to
play.
I
think
that
collectively,
as
the
decision
processes
of
the
Kings
will
move
forward,
that
isn't
always
reflected
as
well
as
is
the
individual
members
of
cabinet
would
like
it
to
be
so.
A
We've
got
to
try
and
put
forward
a
mechanism
that
bit
stands
a
chance
of
making
that
work,
we're
taking
on
board
the
comments
that
task
and
finish
groups
predominantly
were
meeting
when
not
all
members
could
attend,
and
indeed
not
all
members
knew
when
they
were
attending
so
actually
by
setting
some
regular
scrutiny
meetings,
albeit
it
fairly
wide
gaps.
You
were
you've
got
some
set
dates
in
the
year
when
there,
when
there
will
be
in
Diaries
and
people
will
be
able
to
attend.
A
What,
then
we've
got
to
do
is
make
effective
use
of
the
time
in
between
by
using
individual
groups.
We've
got
to
try
something
different,
because
we
recognize
this
this
year
produced
shortcomings
previous
year
produced
shortcomings,
so
trying
to
put
the
two
together
I
have
to
work
on
trying
to
produce
a
better
outcome.
I
understand
your
concern:
yeah.
P
A
E
Thank
you
because
scrutiny
is,
is
our
responsibility?
It's
not
the
executives
responsibility,
that's
the
important
point.
So
if
it
doesn't
work,
then
that's
not
the
fault
of
the
mayor
or
the
cabinet,
it's
the
fault
of
the
member,
so
I'm
really
committed
to
making
it
work.
We
have
had
some
really
positive
aspects
of
the
way
we've
been
working
during
the
past
year,
but
the
task
and
finish
group
so
I
think
they've
uncovered
a
way.
E
We
don't
need
to
look
honestly
at
what
went
wrong
with
the
Commission's
and
way
the
way
that
they
didn't
work
so
well,
I,
don't
think
any
of
us
disagree
with
that
and
and
the
devil
is
kind
of
in
the
detail.
There
I
think
there's
it's
true
what
has
been
said
about
the
the
work
plan
and
how
we
funnel
that
in
and
how
we
make
decisions
as
to
what
is
on,
because
we
think
he
can't
scrutinize
everything
we
have
to
it's
a
difficult
decision
with
something
that
we
need
to
make
them.
E
How
that
is
done
is
very
important.
I
noticed
here
on
page
46,
commission
meetings
number
one
chairing
ensuring
the
Commission
works
collaboratively.
The
devil
is
in
the
detail.
How
can
we
ensure
that
those
Commission
meetings
are
collaborative
and
they're
focused
on
scrutiny
and
actually
looking
at
the
policies
and
the
things
that
are
going
on
in
front
of
us
and
I?
A
M
Show
so
my
experience,
what's
also
key,
is
that
the
members
of
the
committee
forget
that
party
allegiances,
when
they
walk
into
the
room,
because
we
used
to
find
that
when
with
the
advantage
when
I
started
out
was
that
we
had
George's
met.
So
in
fact,
all
the
council
groups
were
not
part
of
an
administration
as
such,
but
there
were
also
instances
of
good
chairing
and
bad
chairing
and
we've
all
suffered
through
bad
Joe
and
I
know
that
you
know
where
I've
covered
for
you
before
now.
M
You
owe
me
a
kidney,
not
just
a
meeting
of
that
one
but
the,
but
we
do
need
to
make
sure
that
we're
actually
just
looking
at
this
stuff
in
front
of
us
and
and
also
at
times
forgetting
when
I
say
forgetting
friendships.
But
when
I
sit
on
planning.
Sometimes
friends
of
mine,
from
whichever
party
you
have
a
campaign,
go
in
their
ward
against
a
particular
development.
M
But
I
have
to
just
look
for
focus
on
the
planning
law
and
not
look
it
and
I
think
that
that
kind
of
attitude
helps
quite
a
lot
with
cross-party
working
on
other
committees
and
and
not
going
there
just
to
pick
a
fight
with
person,
X
or
Y
or
party
X
or
Y,
but
going
letter
to
really
try
and
drill
down
into
whatever
information
is
available,
but
also
those
committees
only
focus
only
function.
Well,
if
the
information
is
available
and
that
can
has
been
a
challenge
under
both
mayor's
at
times.
M
So
we
need
to
make
sure
that
we're
we're
able
to
get
that
information
out
to
people.
But
I
do
quite
like
the
hybrid
thing,
because
a
big
problem
that
I
used
to
fun
with
the
big
committees
was
they
were
very
good
at
looking
at
the
stuff
that
they
had
to
keep
looking
at
on
a
rota.
But
there
were
also
things
have
cropped
up
or
big
issues
that
needed
more
depth.
M
So
having
a
Crips
patch
way,
new
neighborhood
committee,
it
won't
meet
very
often
because
the
developments
on
there
are
very
slow
in
coming
forward
and
being
accessible
to
scrutinise.
But
it's
vital
that
we
have
something
like
that.
That
looks
at
that
big
development,
the
impact
it
will
have
on
the
city,
but
the
same
time.
A
F
This
new
hybrid
model,
I
agree
with
Tom
I,
think
this
ways
of
sorting
and
how
we,
how
we
have
leadership
on
scrutiny
that
may
be
more
effective.
What's
a
increasingly
complex
kind
of
way
of
scrutinizing
stuff
in
the
21st
century.
It's
not
just
Bristol.
You
know
inside
the
walls
of
this
building,
we've
got
our
interactions
with
with
the
health,
the
health
service
with
planners
and
developers
with
all
sorts
of
stuff,
and
we
do
have
a
mayoral
system
which
does
make
a
difference
actually,
and
we
must.
F
We
must
admit
that
it
does
make
a
difference
at
the
moment.
It's
a
Labour
administration
that
could
change
in
the
future.
So
we
have
to
have
a
scrutiny
session
system,
that's
a
tad
jail
and
can
cope
with
changes
around
it
and
many
things.
I
would
say
that
once
we've
established
this
new
scrutiny
system
with
our
Tuscan
finish
groups
and
our
or
worked
out
work
plan,
I
really
really
want
to
be
able
to
support
Andrea
and
my
democratic
services
team
in
making
sure
that
we
have
adequate
training
and
development
of
scrutiny.
F
A
Whilst
I
was
listening
to
you
talking
then
Judy,
it
suddenly
occurred
to
me
that
taking
Dawn's
point
about
chairs
and
all
his
comments
about
membership
and
I,
just
wonder
whether
Andrea
we
might
not
suggest
that
the
party
leads
could
have
a
meeting
with
the
whips.
I,
don't
know
John
whether
you
think
that
might
work.
A
But
it
seems
to
me
that
some
of
the
issues
about
the
make
and
the
chairs
and
so
on,
comes
down
to
proportionality
in
the
political
system
and
I
think
it
would
be
really
useful
if
Don
your
views
and
and
and
the
general
concerns
could
be
shared
with
the
whips
about
how
we
want.
We
would
ideally
like
this
to
move
forward,
because
otherwise
there
is
a
danger
that
we,
from
the
other
point
of
view,
have
one
view
the
whips
have
a
process
that
is
established
for
the
selecting
and
identifying
everything
who
does
what
and
unless
we.
G
Out
to
how
we
could
do
things
better
particular
brief
wanted
to
do
more.
We
need
to
be
far
more
overview,
and
rather
less
scrutiny
has
always
been
my
view
that
those
groups,
hopefully
will
actually
have
the
people
with
the
interest
in
the
passion
for
those
particular
subjects
to
drive
them
forward
in
a
very
good
way
and
I,
don't
I
mean
I've,
never
seen
very
much
property
politics
and
in
much
of
what
we
do,
except
in
for
council,
which
is
the
most
unusual.
But.
G
Everybody
here
for
that
one,
but
the
the
factors
that
we
need
to
be
collegial.
We
need
to
understand
where
people
are
coming
from
and
they
should.
Everyone
should
leave
the
party
allegiances
and,
frankly,
very
often,
their
board
allegiance
is
to
behind
them
when
they
come
into
these
groups
and
actually
just
think
about
the
said
that
this
success
and
the
future
of
the
city
and
that's
that's
what
I've
always
worked
for
I,
think
most
people
that
believe
in
this
will
feel
the
same
way.
Thank.
A
You
Anthony
can
I
just
because
I
think
this
is
sufficiently
important
and
I
only
do
this.
If
I
thought
there's
a
chance,
everyone
voting
in
favor
can
I
just
say:
can
we
just
have
a
show
of
hands
of
those
who
are
supportive
with
with
the
general
qualifications
that
be
made,
but
supportive
of
the
general
principle
of
the
hybrid
model,
as
outlined.
A
Right,
thank
you
so
that
that
was
the
first
thing.
There
are
a
couple
of
decisions.
I
think
that
we
need
to
take
or
advise
on
the
that
outlines
suggests
that
azam
should
be
responsible
for
the
commissioning
the
working
groups.
Now.
One
of
the
things
I
like
to
just
take
some
soundings
on
is
whether
it
is
awesome
or
whether
it
is
awesome,
either
in
the
form
of
the
party
leads
or
of
the
Commission
chairs.
Doing
that.
A
The
reason
I'm
asking
is
because,
if
we
are
talking
or
meetings
three
times
a
year
for
the
Commission
and
five
times
a
year
for
awesome,
if
we're
waiting
for
Azam
to
make
a
decision,
what
Commission
could
do
what
a
task
and
finish
group
or
every
inquiry
they
could
do,
we
could
have
a
situation
where
we
we
certainly
build
a
three-month
delay
into
the
process
on
something
that
needs
some
urgent
attention.
So
I
probably
not
perhaps
be
interested
if
people
just
members
have
thoughts
on
that.
B
It's
working
I
think
that's
wait!
I!
Think!
That's!
That's
that's
an
interesting
point
sure
because,
particularly
with
the
current
J
husk
committee,
we
are
every
now
and
again
faced
with
some
new
initiative
by
the
NHS
that
we
haven't
seen
coming,
because
we
can't
see
it
coming
and
in
that
case
we've
had
several
instances
where
we've
had
to
have
some
very
good
meetings
that
we
couldn't
wait
to
run
past
awesome
because
of
the
timescales
that
an
external
body
has
got
for
responses.
B
A
E
Autonomous
opossum
itself
in
the
past
and
I
remember
when
I
was
newly
elected
going
to
Commission's
and
wondering
what
was
I'm.
Did
it
self,
because
the
Commission
seemed
to
carry
so
much
of
thee
of
the
weight
of
things
and
I
really
think
that
it's
quite
important
that,
as
we
talked
about
this,
this
was
the
work
stream.
A
So,
just
and
just
a
couple
of
things
that
I
just
want
to
iterate
just
so
that
they
are
recorded
for
look
for
the
minutes.
One
is
that
the
there
should
be
a
budget
or
medium
term
financial
plan
working
group.
That
is
a
subcommittee
of
azam,
but
the
chair
of
that
and
the
chair
of
the
other
three
Commission's
would
then
be
within
the
category
of
receiving
a
responsibility
allowance.
As
has
been
the
case
in
the
past.
A
A
N
There
was
a
question
about
where,
as
traditionally,
we
have
set
work
programs-
and
we
for
this
year
for
the
task
and
finish
at
the
beginning
of
the
year-
which
I
think
is
what
we'd
expect
to
do
for
the
majority
of
them,
is
to
make
sure
that
there
is
some
form
of
flexibility
within
the
system
for
kind
of
arising
issues
and
I
was
gonna,
say
if
you
did
run
chair
and
from
an
officer
perspective.
That
would
be
really
really
clear.
This
is
just
from
the
officer
perspective.
N
They're
informal
to
discuss
kind
of
the
ways
of
the
next
meeting
is
that
we
could
have
those
could
be
the
forum
in
which
arising
items
etc
and
the
flexibility
and
they
could
be
called
very,
very
quickly
and
very
easily.
So,
therefore,
you
wouldn't
need
to
wait
for
a
formal
Azam,
but
you
have
the
representation,
as
required
gets
to
come
together
really
quickly
in
order
to
be
able
to
then
decide
on
processing
of
flexible
items
and
I
was
also
going
to
just
come
back
on
the
point
that
Jude,
which
made
regarding
training
of
member
developments.
N
We
have
got
a
member
development
steering
group
they
met
last
week
and
what
they've
done
is
we've
been
in
contact
with
the
LGA
and
the
LGA
have
offered
to
run
us
a
series
of
training
courses
here
so
rather
than
kind
of
the
ones
that
they
run,
which
we
we
jump
into.
They
would
actually
come
and
run
a
series
of
ones
here.
N
A
A
The
workshop
was
a
real
positive
engagement
and
actually
across
all
the
tables,
to
come
out
with
a
very
similar
conclusion
actually
shows,
perhaps
as
well
how
we've
all
come
on
in
the
course
of
the
year
in
identifying
what
we
wanted
scrutiny
to
be
so
I
think.
That's
a
I
think
that's
really
positive,
but
obviously
the
hard
work
starts
now
because
we've
got
to
make
it
we've
got
to
make
it
deliver.
A
So
the
next
item
on
the
agenda
is
item
11
the
outcome
from
the
meeting
in
common
with
South
Gloucestershire
Council,
we
Bri
the
Benjamin
condom
case
now.
This
meeting
in
common
happened
on
the
31st
of
January
I
suggested
that
it
was
appropriate
that
we
actually,
instead
of
bringing
it
up
under
chairs
business
at
the
last
meeting,
I
felt
it
was
improper
utley
that
had
an
item
on
this
agenda
so
that
the
report
went
into
the
public
domain.
You
have
that
on
pages
49
to
55
Brenda
you
were
at
that
meeting.
B
I
think
it
might
be
quite
useful
to
give
you
a
short
rundown
on
this.
This
is
actually
a
very,
very
complex
situation
and
also
a
very
sad
one
too,
because
it
concerns
the
death
of
Ben
Condon
in
April.
2015
Ben
was
born
prematurely
and
was
very
on,
but
after
a
period
of
time
he
managed
to
get
back
home
with
his
parents.
B
B
The
trust
initially
did
not
handle
the
situation
very
well
and
I
don't
want
to
go
into
all
of
that,
because
it's
actually
already
in
the
public
domain
and
it's
it's
very
complicated,
but
in
the
autumn
last
year
they
actually
changed
their
minds
and
gave
a
full
apology
for
what
had
happened,
which
actually
surprised
us,
because
we
hadn't
been
notified.
This
was
happening,
however,
having
had
one
for
scrutiny
session
I
chaired
the
first
meeting
of
the
joint
South
Gloucester
and
Bristol
group
that
were
looking
into
this.
B
We
then
had
another
one
which
was
chaired
by
South
Gloucester,
because
we
take
turns
in
sharing
these
committees
and
we
went
through
the
whole
situation
again,
including
the
comments
from
the
trust
about
these
issues.
They've
put
in
place
to
try
and
address
some
of
the
problems
that
occurred
previously
at
the
conclusion
of
the
eating.
It
was
felt
that
we
needed
to
have
a
proposal
on
the
way
forward.
South
Gloucester
decided
that
actually
they
wanted
to
reconvene
the
meeting
for
the
second
time
and
review
progress
in
a
year's
time
in
Bristol.
A
A
A
Also,
the
fact
that
there
can
sometimes
be
a
tendency
for
officers
not
within
the
legal
team,
but
the
officers
presenting
the
report
to
want
something
to
be
exempt
when
it's
not
entirely
justified,
and
there
have
been
a
couple
of
items
of
late
we're.
Having
seen
what
was
going
to
be
exempt.
I
myself.
A
R
So,
just
to
add
to
that
then
Jeff,
what
we're
doing
as
part
the
new
decision
pathway
is
introducing
thorough
training
for
all
officers
that
are
dealing
with
reports
and
that
will
include
a
section
on
when
should
information
be
exempt,
which
will
have
all
the
guidelines
from
the
Information
Commissioner
Public
Interest
test
in
terms
of
Freedom
of
Information
any
case
or
anything
that's
relevant
to
help
them
make
that
balancing
exercise.
But
the
reality
is
that's
their
initial
view.
R
What
will
then
happen
is
that
that
will
then
come
to
to
me
as
monitoring
officer,
and
my
team
will
ensure
that
everything
that
should
be
an
open
session
is
actually
taken
in
the
open
session.
And
what
we
are
seeking
to
do
is
minimize
any
exempt
information
and
that's
taken
as
a
separate,
appendix
and
I
think
you'll
you'll
see
that's
working
it
because
the
last
cabinet
meeting
there
was
nothing
in
an
exempt
paper.
R
So
it's
we're
improving
the
processes
and
it
is
actually
the
application
you're
absolutely
right,
and
what
we're
trying
to
do
is
just
make
sure
that
that
work
is
done
upstream
rather
than
downstream,
which
is
why
we're
having
to
consult
the
terribles
and
when
we're
looking
exempt
information.
So
you
will
see
an
improvement,
but
I
can
assure
you
that
nothing
that
should
should
have
been
taken,
as
an
open
item
has
not
been
taken
in
exempt
session,
if
it
should
have
been
an
open
item
based
on
the
criteria
that
we
apply
as
lawyers
at
the
moment.
G
That's
it
and
a
particularly
poor
date
that
they're
heading
to
thee
to
the
chart,
which
is
where
we
should
always
start
that
it's
it's
not
exempt,
and
the
city's
exempt
and
I
think
that's.
That's
really
important.
I
wanted
to
talk
about
two
stages
in
in
practical
terms
which
I
think
how
this
works
in
practice.
The
first
one
is
regarding
stage
three.
G
But
the
important
thing
is
that
the
essence
of
the
report
is
what's
crucial
here,
because
it
may
not
be.
What
we
see
well
is
what
we
see,
but
it
may
not
be
all
we
see,
but
is
all
that
the
public
sees
and
it's
absolutely
essential,
that
the
public
get
the
vast
majority
of
all
of
this
with
the
barest
snippets
separated
and
they
should
be
separated
at
birth.
G
I
think,
while
the
reports
being
written
to
make
sure
that
we
don't
get
gummed
up
later
on,
finding
me
funding
that
we
can't
do
something,
and
that
means
you
know
the
whole
report
has
to
be
rewritten.
You
know,
that's
I,
think
a
logistical
thing.
The
second
thing
is
is
timing,
in
terms
of
when
we
agree
that
something
is
okay
or
not.
G
E
I
noted
when
I
was
reading
through
this
on
page
57
step
three
monitor
officer
referrals
decision
to
Roman
scrutiny,
chair
and
chair.
Wasn't
the
scrutiny
chair
came
actually
before
the
chair
of
alls
I'm
in
that
in
that
kind
of
process,
if
you
take
it
in
that
order,
I
have
concerns
that
that
is
yet
another.
One
of
those
issues
that
leads
to
the
honor
autonomy
of
the
Commission's
makes
it
a
politically
valuable
position
to
be
a
chair
of
a
commission
and
actually
resources.
Some
of
the
problems
that
we
have
before
and.
D
A
Interesting
you
saying
that
Don
I
I
would
say
on
some
of
the
issues
that
have
come
up.
I
have
valued
having
another
person
involved
in
the
process
of
whichever
party
and
I
to
be
honest,
I
I'm,
looking
around
the
room
and
I
think
I've
been
involved
in
issues
with
most
people
around
the
room
and
irrespective
of
party
I've,
always
found.
The
views
have
been
objective.
A
So
I
understand
why
you're
concerned,
but
I
find
I
I
have
found
on
occasion
it
very
hard
where
there
was
something
that
came
just
to
me,
I'm,
making
a
decision
effectively
on
behalf
of
the
whole
of
Council,
of
what
of
what
I'm
prepared
to
accept
I,
don't
think,
that's
right
that
I
should
be
in
that
position
and
the
beauty
of
there
being.
Someone
else
is
that
it's
almost
certain
that
the
the
two
chairs
are
from
different
parties.
A
So
actually
there
is,
there
is
a
counterbalance
so
so
I,
don't
sigh
I,
actually
see
it
as
strengthening
the
system
because
I
the
ones
I
know
often
when
we've
discussed
them.
It's
produce
some
interesting
discussion
between
me
and
the
chair
of
the
Commission
about
issues
that
maybe
one
of
us
wasn't.
It
wasn't
aware
of
so
so.
Therefore,
I
I
actually
prefer
that
and
and
okay,
whoever
it
might
be
chairing
awesome
I
believe
there
needs
to
be
someone
else
who
may
actually
say
no
you're
wrong
to
agree
with
that
being
confidential
and
come
up
with
reason.
E
Going
question
is
that
what
is
what
is
it
about
this
new
hybrid
system?
That
is
any
different
from
what
we
did
before
at
the
end
of
the
day,
what
is
gonna
make
it
different
to
what
we
had,
which
we
accepted,
had
enormous
problems
and
I
kind
of
I
can't
unless,
unless
being
able
to
pin
those
things
down?
Well,
you
and.
A
M
Who've
also
been
chairs
of
important
committees,
and
the
last
thing
I
would
want
is
someone
who
that
say
made
a
big
mess
when
they
would
in
charge
of
something
and
then
being
able
to
say
that
has
to
be
exempt
I'm
certain
that
must
be
exempt,
because
I
will
look
like
I
was
doing
a
really
really
bad
job
on
the
cabinet.
If
that
becomes
public
knowledge.
I
also
want
to
stress
to
any
public
who
can't
sleep
tonight
and
are
watching
the
podcast
that
everything
I
have
read
that
has
been
exempt
has
been
boring.
M
There
has
been
nothing
at
all
that
was
remotely
exciting
about
anything
I've
read
that
was
exempt.
However,
I
have
been
in
a
very
odd
meeting
where
half
the
people
had
read
an
exempt
document.
Half
the
people,
hadn't
read
an
exam
document.
In
fact,
two
people-
three
of
you
were
in
this
in
Italy,
it's
about
the
port,
land,
sale
and
so
I
was
covering
for
someone
else
and
I
hadn't
been
able
to
to
access,
because
I
didn't
have
tons
of
covering
a
short
notice.
M
I've
read
an
exemption
and
there
are
times
when
it's
useful
I
know
that
when
we
were
setting
up
the
waste
company
it
I
think
was
a
waste
company.
We
looked
at
the
proposals
on
how
it
be
structured
and
how
it
would
work
in
exemption,
and
that
was
utterly
uninteresting.
But
it
was
reassuring
to
see
that
there
were.
You
know,
processes
in
place.
That
would
make
it
look
like
it
ran
effectively
for
someone
who's
never
worked
in
or
run
a
business
before.
So
for
me,
I
my
knowledge.
M
Probably
it
was
of
no
benefit
to
people
on
that,
but
I
would
want
to
make
sure
that
we
had
at
least
you
know,
two
people
who
could
so
if,
if
someone
was
trying
to
you
know,
keep
something
on
the
quiet
that
they
had
been
involved
in
a
gone
wrong,
that
that
meant
that
they
couldn't
happen.
That
way,
just
as
a
sort
of
safeguard
for
the
future,
because
I'm
hoping
that,
whatever
changes,
we
agree,
whether
they're
about
scrutiny
or
about
this,
are
going
to
be
in
place
for
quite
a
while.
M
Now,
because
we
had
one
system
that
has
changed,
and
it's
been
in
place
for
six
months
and
now
we're
going
to
change
it
again
for
understandable
reasons.
But
it
would
be
nice
to
try
and
get
something
bedded
in
as
much
for
the
benefit
of
the
officers,
but
also
for
us
as
well,
so
that
we
get
a
stable
system
in
place
that
we
get
used
to
just.
A
A
A
Well,
I'll
go
one
stage
further
than
that:
the
last
confidential,
but
one
but
one
that
I
was
asked
to
look
at
I.
Couldn't
even
understand
and
I
had
to
get
someone
to
explain
it
to
me.
So
actually,
I
I
had
the
view
it
could
have
been
entirely
public
and
no
one
would
have
made
any
sense
of
it.
But
I
said
I
said
that's
a
different
matter
so
right.
We
know
that
and
I
think
she'll
see.
Oh,
this
continues
to
be
working
progress.
A
A
There
will
be
circumstances
where
it's
necessary
and
I
think
in
some
ways
the
arena
may
be
a
classic
case
where
there
will
be
some
things
in
what
has
gone
on.
They
will
be
part
of
what
goes
into
the
public
domain
and
and
members
would
understand
that
what
we
don't
want
to
do
is
lose
the
information
that
it
shows
how
we
are
arriving
at
the
main
issues,
and
that's
that's
the
bit
that
we've
got
to
keep
the
balance
right
on.
Okay,
we
move
on
to
the
scrutiny
work
program.
A
A
A
Denise,
the
shareholder
group
meeting
this
morning.
There
was
conversation
about
the
waste
company,
but
I,
don't
think
we're
quite
sorry.
The
housing
company
but
I,
don't
think
we're
quite
clear
on
when
the
timing
will
be,
but
we
did
have
confirmation
that
there
will
be
a
report
that
will
come
to
scrutiny
and
go
to
cabinet
in
terms
of
the
other
items.
A
G
You
may
recall
it
was
one
of
the
things
that
came
out
of
the
out
of
the
motion.
We
asked
the
mayor
to
do
certain
things,
one
of
which
was
to
prepare
this
report,
which,
which
showed
the
impact
and
the
how
this
was,
how
it
was
working
and
how
it
wasn't
working
both
here
and
I,
believe
we
actually
asked
for
comparisons
with
other
with
up
with
other
areas
as
well.
So
it's
just
a
background
report
to
understand
the
impact
and
how
it's
all
all
worked
out.
Would
that
be
fir.
Denise.
K
F
A
briefing
report
about
something
we've
asked
to
know
about
not
a
scrutiny
issue,
and
we
previously
talked
the
workshops
about
making
best
use
of
time
in
so
it
sounds
to
me
like
that,
should
be
a
members
briefing
report
that
scheduled
at
a
time
that
fits
in
with
all
the
other
stuff
as
we
discuss
with
Andrea,
rather
than
something
that
comes
to
this
meeting.
Yeah.
A
D
A
Given
there
is
so
many
items
here
pending
and
whilst
we
will
be
changing
the
process
as
we've
agreed
or
the
hybrid
I
would
be
keen
to
avoid
the
fact
of
having
a
two-month
gap
between
meetings,
particularly
in
a
year
when
we
don't
have
any
elections
and
therefore
there's
no
reason
why
the
scrutiny
process
couldn't
we
kept
going
so
that
we've
got
more
work
ready
to
pass
over
to
the
individual
Commission's.
Would
that
would
that
seem
reasonable?
A
A
Aside
had
an
intriguing
meeting
of
being
on
a
telephone
meeting
of
whether
scrutiny
and
hearing
thanks,
Ella
Pearce
dulcet
tones
over
the
over
the
phone
line,
saying
exactly
what
I've
been
saying
about
the
whacker
forward
plan.
Only
it
is
a
consolation
to
bristol
officers
that
the
whacker
forward
plan
actually
is
only
deals
with.
What's
going
to
the
next
whacker
meeting,
full
stop
and
doesn't
even
attempt
to
think
about
anything
beyond
that.
So
so
bristol
is,
is
just
marginally
ahead,
but
it's,
but
it
was
very
reassuring.
Steve
to
hear
your
your.
B
A
Your
tone
saying
exactly
what
I've
been
saying
and
that
we
are
of
one
Accord
on
that
yeah
absolutely
and
the
period
nine
finance
report
is
also
circulated
and,
in
view
of
the
time
and
in
view
of
the
fact
that
I
promised
I
try
and
finish
this
by
7:30
I
can
blame
the
slight
lateness
on
technological
issues.
So
thank
you
all
for
your
time,
Lucy,
Shazzer
Denise.
Thank
you
for
your
time.
I
declare
this
meeting
late.