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From YouTube: OCT 3 2022 Question Period
Description
The Legislative Assembly of British Columbia
3rd Session
42nd Parliament
C
After
five
years
of
this
health
Minister,
our
Health
Care
system
is
to
borrow
a
term
from
the
premier
crumbling
one
million
British
Columbians
wait
listed
to
see
a
specialist,
the
worst
walk-in
clinic
wait
times
in
the
country,
hundreds
of
thousands
of
our
neighbors
and
Friends
unable
to
get
timely,
Medical
Imaging
one
in
five
British
Columbians
that
cannot
access
a
family
physician.
Almost
one
million
British
Columbians
hospitals
in
chaos,
emergency
rooms,
closed
right
across
the
province,
people
dying
after
two
days
on
a
stretcher
in
hospital
waiting
rooms,
ambulance,
delays
that
are
literally
costing
people
their
lives.
C
Now
in
the
real
world,
anybody
overseeing
such
a
compilation
of
failure
would
have
been
fired
a
long
time
ago,
but
there's
been
zero
accountability
in
this
NDP
government,
Mr
Speaker
and
it's
time
for
that
to
change.
Will
this
health
Minister?
Do
the
right
thing
today
accept
responsibility
for
his
government's
appalling
record
of
failure
and
resign.
B
B
B
I
just
note,
for
example,
honorable
speaker
that
in
March
and
April
of
2020,
as
minister
of
Health
I
was
responsible
for
one
of
the
most
difficult
decisions
I
had
to
make,
which
was
to
delay
tens
of
thousands
of
surgeries.
99
of
those
were
made
up.
99
percent
and
surgical
wait
times
were
reduced
in
a
time
of
pandemic.
Honorable
speaker,
we
increased
our
capacity
and
how
do
we
do
it
by
adding
anesthesiologists
by
adding
nurses
by
adding
medical
processing
technologists
by
taking
action?
B
Equally
in
primary
care,
we
had
to
take
steps
to
maintain
a
system
as
a
result
of
covid-19
measures,
and
we
did
changing
fee
codes
and
increasing
the
number
of
primary
care
visits.
There
is
no
question
that,
like
every
jurisdiction
in
the
world
and
every
jurisdiction
in
Canada,
our
health
care
workers,
our
Health
Care
Professionals,
our
health
care
teams
and
patients
are
facing
challenges
they
have
not
seen
before.
B
But
since
I've
been
minister
of
Health,
there
have
been,
are
38
000,
more
of
them
doctors
and
nurses,
and
nurse
practitioners
and
Health
Sciences
professionals
and
health
care
workers
who
are
making
a
difference
for
everybody,
I'm,
proud
of
them
and
I'm
proud
of
the
BC
Health
Care
system.
While
recognizing
all
of
the
things
we
have
to
do
now.
All
of
the
things
we
have
to
do
in
primary
care
and
surgery
and
Diagnostics
in
long-term
care
to
make
it
better.
C
Thank
you,
Mr
Speaker,
Mr
Speaker,
it's
not
about
the
health
care
workers.
We
know
they
are
doing
exceptional
work.
It's
about
a
system
that
this
NDP
government
has
overseen
now
for
almost
six
years.
That
is
literally
collapsing.
Now
the
minister
can
make
all
the
excuses
he
wants.
But
results
are
what
matter.
C
He
loves
to
cite
all
kinds
of
meaningless
numbers
in
this
house,
but
he
ignores
the
numbers
that
matter
and
the
numbers
that
matter
are
outcomes
and
results.
What
people
are
actually
seeing
out
of
this
Health
Care
system,
the
public
has
lost
faith
in
useless
announcements
that
don't
result
in
any
improved
services
or
results.
B
Minister
of
Health-
oh
thank
you
honorable
speaker
and
members
of
the
house
will
know,
and
the
leader
of
the
opposition
is
a
former
minister
of
Health.
He
will
know
this
that
our
Ambulance
Service
BC
emergency
Health
Services,
had
30
percent
permanent
staff
when
I
became
minister
of
Health
a
situation
that
put
it
maybe
in
the
20th
century,
maybe
in
the
19th
century,
in
terms
of
organization
after
16
years,
including
some
of
them
with
him
as
minister
of
Health
foreign.
B
500
new
full-time
and
part-time
positions,
honorable
speaker,
more
ambulance
response
than
ever
before,
we
are
facing
a
period
of,
of
course,
very
significant
challenges.
Honorable
speaker,
members
will
know
that
we
want
one
year
2020
to
2021
when
we
had
a
hundred
thousand
more
calls
on
a
500
000
call
base,
and
our
ambulance
paramedics
under
the
circumstances
have
done
an
excellent
job.
We
have
to
continue
to
build
our
Ambulance
Service,
adding
full-time
ambulance
paramedics,
adding
air
ambulances,
which
was
essential
during
the
pandemic.
B
B
Unlike
the
opposition,
who
refers
to
ambulance
paramedics
and
dispatches
or
just
union
members
in
a
derivative
way,
honorable
speaker,
we
believe
in
them.
We
know
we
need
more
of
them.
We
know
they
deserve
our
support.
We
know
they
deserve
our
support
when
they're
dealing
with
two
Public
Health
emergencies-
and
we
will,
they
will
continue
to
get
it
every
single
day.
D
Thank
you
very
much.
What
British
Columbians
know
is
that
when
they
call
9-1-1
in
British
Columbia,
there
is
no
guarantee
that
an
ambulance
is
coming.
That's
not
about
paramedics,
that's
about
this
Minister
and
this
government,
and
he
did
it
again
today.
What
British
Columbians
want
this
minister
to
do
is
acknowledge
for
once
that
we
have
a
health
care
crisis.
Every
single
part
of
the
Health
Care
system
is
in
crisis.
D
They
warned
the
minister
that
we
are
facing,
and
I
quote
a
tsunami
of
late-stage
cancer
cases
because
of
delayed
access
to
Medical
Imaging
for
hundreds
of
thousands
of
people
in
British
Columbia,
wait
times
of
two
months
for
a
diagnostic
breast
exam,
two
and
a
half
months
for
mammograms
three
months
for
biopsies
and
over
one
year
for
screening
ultrasounds.
The
minister
knows
this
is
completely
unacceptable
and
it
is
time
that
he
accepted
responsibility.
B
Minister
of
Health,
oh
honorable,
speaker,
I,
would
say
the
honorable
speaker
that
the
one
subject
this
opposition
shouldn't
be
raising
is
Diagnostic
Imaging
in
the
northern
health
authority
which
the
member
represents.
They
did
22
MRIs
per
thousand.
When
I
became
minister
of
Health,
but
a
third
of
the
health
care
they
got
in
Ontario.
And
what
have
we
done?
We
went
from
174
000
MRI
exams
in
2016-17
to
almost
300
000
in
a
pandemic.
B
We
added
honorable
speaker,
220
000,
that's
220,
000,
CT
scans
now,
I
admit
honorable,
speaker
I
admit
that
the
low
base
before
that
made
that
number
seem
bigger,
because
it
was
a
low
base,
honorable
speaker,
but
we
went
to
from
one
of
the
bottom
in
the
country
to
one
of
the
top
in
the
country
in
terms
of
Diagnostic
Imaging.
That
is
what
the
facts
are.
B
Honorable
speaker
now,
honorable
speaker
now,
honorable
speaker,
I,
would
agree
with
Radiologists
that
we
need
to
always
do
better
and
I
absolutely
will
meet
with
them
and
absolutely
work
to
do
better.
But
I
would
say
this.
Honorable
speaker,
I,
would
say
this
on
this
question
where
people,
especially
in
Northern
Health,
especially
in
Fraser
Health,
had
levels
of
care
below
standard
honorable
speaker
and
that
standard
been
raised
up.
D
Well,
perhaps
The
Minister's
forgotten
that
the
letter
came
from
Radiologists
in
British
Columbia
and
if
he
wants
to
talk
about
reality
and
Northern
Health,
then
perhaps
he
should
have
been
at
the
rally
where
nurses
in
Prince
George
said
to
this
government
and
this
minister
they
are
done.
They
expect
him
to
do
something.
D
Let's
talk
about
outcomes,
because
that
is
what
matters
this
province
used
to
lead
the
country
in
cancer
outcomes,
but
not
anymore.
Last
year,
a
32
year
old
woman
with
a
high
genetic
risk
of
developing
breast
cancer
had
an
abnormal
MRI,
but
it
took
six
months
for
a
breast
biopsy
to
finally
confirm
the
cancer
surgery
wasn't
done
for
another
three
months
after
the
diagnosis,
a
full
nine
months
from
the
abnormal
Imaging.
Now
the
breast
cancer
is
almost
six
centimeters
in
size
and
now
it
requires
both
chemotherapy
and
radiation.
D
The
devastating
personal
result
of
a
crumbling
Health
Care
system
that
this
Minister
continues
to
refuse
to
acknowledge.
British
Columbians
expect
better
from
their
minister
of
Health.
They
expect
him
to
acknowledge,
assist
system
that
is
going
to
collapse
so
to
the
minister
of
Health.
Will
he
listen
to
British
Columbians,
who
are
crying
out
for
this
government
to
take
action?
Will
he
do
the
right
thing
today,
step
aside
and
resign.
B
Minister
of
Health
well,
thank
you
honorable
speaker
and
action
is
what's
required.
Honorable
speaker
action
is
what's
required.
When
I
became
minister
of
Health,
we
were
last
in
Canada
and
registered
nurses
per
capita
last.
You
can't
get
any
worse
than
last.
Since
then,
we've
led
the
country.
In
February
we
announced
new
training
positions
for
nurses
across
British
Columbia.
We
provided.
We
made
changes
for
international
educated
workers
action,
that's
what
people
want.
They
want
action,
and
that
is
what
they're
getting.
B
B
We
have
led
the
country
more
registered
nurse
and
we
have
to
do
more.
That
is
why
we're
training
more
that's!
Why
we're
making
it
easier
for
internationally
educated
nurses
to
work
here.
That's
why
we're
treating
health
care
workers
with
respect
honorable
speaker?
That's
why
the
people
who
provide
Care
at
the
bedside
and
long-term
care
and
acute
care
and
in
the
community
health
care
assistants
have
been
respected
and
added
in
the
tens
of
thousands.
B
E
Thank
you
honorable
speaker,
my
colleague
and
I
spent
the
summer
traveling
around
the
province
meeting
with
doctors,
Specialists
nurses,
Mayors,
counselors
and
citizens.
In
Smithers.
We
heard
how
doctors
are
scrambling
to
do
the
job
of
five
people.
Every
year
they
face
budget
cut
after
budget
cut,
even
the
cream
in
their
coffee
has
been
taken
away
in
new
Denver.
E
Ambulances
aren't
coming
when
they're
needed,
because
the
single
truck
available
in
the
region
has
been
sent
out
for
something
else
in
the
couch
and
Valley
and
Saanich
patients
with
cancer
are
waiting
months
to
receive
treatment
or
being
told
they're
likely
not
to
see
an
oncologist
before
they
die
in
Nelson.
Emergency
rooms
are
almost
closing
due
to
a
shortage
of
nurses
in
the
interior
and
on
the
Island's.
Ers
are
closing
on
weekends
and
evenings.
Because
of
this
problem,
we
ran
the
numbers
126
ER
closures.
E
E
B
Minister
of
Health,
thank
you,
honorable
speaker
and
I.
Think
honorable
speaker
in
the
face
of
two
Public
Health
emergencies
that
affected
everybody
in
BC
and
everybody
in
BC
just
about
everybody
has
contributed
to
that
response
and
I
think
I
think
what
we
do
and
what
we
have
to
continue
to
do
is
work
to
ensure
that
our
Health
Care
system
provides
the
care
for
patients
they
need
when
they
need
so
on
surgeries.
B
That
meant
84
different
measures.
Honorable
speaker
84
different
measures
to
reduce
wait
times,
adding
new
nurses,
new
anesthesiologists,
new
medical
processing
technologists,
so
that
people
would
get
care
sooner
in
long-term
care.
It
meant
90
percent
of
Care
Homes
were
below
the
government's
own
standards,
honorable
speaker,
their
own
standards,
and
they
stayed
that
way
for
10
years
after
the
standards
were
left.
We've
raised
those
standards
in
long-term
care
to
meet
that
standard.
We
had
in
British
Columbia
90
care
homes
that
were
under
three
hours
for
resident
day.
B
There
are
none
today
because
of
the
action
that
we
took
honorable
speaker
and
that
makes
a
real
difference
for
people
we've
increased
and
improved
diagnostic
care
and
during
the
pandemic,
when
we
needed
to
hire
1500
contact
tracers,
we
found
them
and
we
hired
them.
We
need
to
put
up
the
biggest
immunization
program
in
history,
a
program
that
has
saved
tens
of
thousands
and
more
lives.
B
That
will
focus
on
retention
of
our
existing
health
care
workers,
recruitment,
training,
honorable
speaker
in
the
redesign
of
a
system
to
ensure
honorable
speaker
that
the
Next
Generation
as
this
generation
has
a
time
of
challenge,
gets
the
care.
They
need
that
honorable
speaker,
that
honorable
speaker
is
the
approach
we
take
attention
and
it's
a
response.
Thank
you.
E
You,
honorable
speaker
and
I
I,
hear
the
list
of
actions
I'm,
not
sure
it
really
speaks
to
the
question
of
accountability
and
and
particularly
hearing
from
Mayors
at
ubcm.
Recently.
The
question
that
kept
getting
put
to
us
in
meetings
is:
is
who's
who's
responsible
for
the
fact
that
the
ambulance
doesn't
come
who's
responsible
for
the
ER
not
being
open
when
I
need
it
where's
the
accountability
in
this
system.
Where
does
it
rest?
E
The
health
care
crisis
we
are
in
absolutely
is
not
something
that
happened
overnight.
It's
years
of
mismanagement,
it's
years
of
cuts,
it's
years
of
health,
health
emergencies
and
like
many
issues
we
face
it's
too
big
for
one
person,
the
premier
recently
said
good
ideas
come
from
all
sides
of
the
house,
and
just
a
couple
weeks
ago,
at
ubcm,
every
party
leader
in
this
house
gave
speeches
on
the
importance
of
collaboration
and
working
across
party
lines.
E
British
Columbians
do
not
want
Health
Care
to
be
used
as
a
political
football.
British
Columbians
want
to
know
that
all
of
us-
and
we
are
all
committed
to
this.
All
of
us-
are
committed
to
solving
this
crisis.
Honorable
speaker,
my
question
is
to
the
premier:
will
he
strike
an
all-party
working
group
on
Health
Care.
F
I
thank
the
leader
of
the
green
party
for
her
question
and
the
the
notion
of
collaboration
which
all
of
us,
the
member,
officially
lead
the
official
opposition.
The
green
party
leader
myself
spoke
about
to
the
union
of
BC
municipalities.
Last
week
remains
true
today
as
as
true
today
as
it
was
last
week,
the
challenges
we
Face
are
profound.
F
The
challenge
is,
of
course,
that
we
have
already
seen
tremendous
collaboration
on
some
significant
issues
on
all
sides
of
this
house.
We're
going
to
be
talking,
I'm
sure,
I'm,
hopeful
about
repeat
offenders
in
a
few
moments.
As
other
questions
come
forward.
What
did
we
do
to
start
that
work?
We
collaborated
together,
looking
at
the
police
act
for
the
first
time
in
50
years,
not
the
government,
not
the
opposition,
not
the
reporting.
All
of
us
when
called
upon
to
do
something
more
about
the
challenges
with
one
of
the
health
care
crises.
F
The
minister
talked
about
the
opioid
crisis.
We
have
an
all-party
committee
doing
that
very
work,
so
the
collaboration
on
a
month,
a
bunch
of
issues
is
happening,
but
if
we
are
going
to
address
the
challenges
in
health
care
which
The
Minister's
been
talking
about
which
the
official
opposition
is
raised,
we
need
a
national
response
and
that's
not
finger-pointing.
Honorable
speaker,
that's
saying
to
our
partners.
We
need
to
do
this
together.
A
human
resource
strategy
in
British
Columbia
is
going
forward,
despite
the
absence
of
the
federal
government.
F
But
if
we're
going
to
be
successful
in
every
corner
of
this
country,
we
have
to
have
a
prime
minister,
a
finance
minister
in
Ottawa
and
a
national
government
that
understands
and
recognizes
the
issues
that
the
leader
of
the
official
opposition
raised.
The
issue
is
that
the
interim
leader,
the
opposition
race
and
the
issues
that
have
been
raised
about
accountability,
and
what
are
we
going
to
do
together
to
solve
these
challenges
for
the
people
of
British,
Columbia
and
Canada?
We
can't
do
it
by
ourselves.
A
You
Mr
Speaker,
on
July
9th,
a
woman
was
admitted
at
Lionsgate
hospital
for
possible
heart
problems,
but
instead
of
getting
the
help
she
needed,
she
spent
two
days
lying
on
a
stretcher
in
an
overcrowded
waiting
room
by
mid-afternoon
of
July
11.
Two
days
later,
she
was
found
unresponsive
by
a
family
member
and
later
died.
This
is
what
Adrian
gear
of
the
BC
nurses
Union
said
about
this
tragedy.
Quote
nurses
are
upset
they're
angry.
They
feel
this
is
something
that
absolutely
could
have
and
should
have
been
prevented.
A
This
has
happened
at
the
Lionsgate
ER,
but
this
could
be
honestly
any
emergency
room
in
the
province
at
this
point
and
what
was
the
minister
of
Health's
reaction,
the
minister
downplayed
what
happened
claiming
that
the
woman
received
quote
significant
care
now,
I
can't
imagine
that
having
anyone
in
your
family
die
on
a
stretcher
in
an
overcrowded
waiting
room
should
ever
be
considered
significant
care.
This
province
deserves
a
health
Minister
that
prioritizes
outcomes.
Will
this
Minister
do
the
right
thing,
stand
up
and
resign.
B
You
honorable
chair
and
as
members
of
the
house
when
individual
cases
come
forward.
We
don't
comment
in
a
in
a
SP
in
a
specific
sense
about
those
cases,
but
what
I
would
say
here
and
what
I
was
referring
to
was
the
care
provided
by
doctors
and
Specialists
and
nurses
in
this
case
in
the
Lionsgate
Hospital
honorable
speaker,
there
are
issues,
especially
honorable
speaker
in
that
period,
in
in
terms
of
having
people,
leave
the
emergency
room
and
go
up
to
the
wards.
B
It's
why
it
is
so
important
that
we
have
a
Health,
Care
system
that
allows
them
to
do
that
that
allows
people
to
have
supports
in
the
community
so
that
we
have
room
on
the
wards,
but
in
that
case,
went
through
in
detail
that
that
issue
with
the
Vancouver
Coastal
Health
staff,
honorable
speaker,
I,
think
for
the
family.
Honorable
speaker,
there
is
absolutely
nothing
to
be
said.
B
It
is
absolutely
tragic
when
someone
passes
away,
particularly
in
those
circumstances,
and
that's
why
we
have
to
do
exactly
what
we're
doing
on
a
speaker,
which
is
in
a
time
a
very
challenging
time
for
the
Health
Care
System.
Add
Healthcare
staff
train
more
recruit
more
so
that
patients
get
the
care
they
deserve,
not
and
in
a
location
that
clearly
is
not
acceptable,
honorable
speaker,
but
get
that
care
in
their
own
room
where
it
should
be
in
a
hospital
like
Lionsgate.
That's
what
I
said
at
the
time.
I
express
my
profound
sadness
at
the
time.
B
G
Thank
you,
Mr
Speaker,
well,
the
the
disconnect
between
what
the
minister
is
saying
here
today.
Frankly,
what
he
says
on
most
days
and
what's
actually
happening
out
there
in
communities
is
breathtaking.
G
The
time
for
Action
is
long
overdue,
but
all
we're
getting
from
the
minister
are
empty
words
and
empty
announcements,
and
the
bottom
line
is
that
his
results,
as
minister
of
Health
are
terrible.
Mr
Speaker
enough
is
enough.
That's
the
message
from
British
Columbians
across
this
province.
Enough
is
enough.
Surely
this
Minister
knows
that
he's
failing
and
nothing
that
he's
tried
nothing
that
he
throws
at
this,
no
announcement
that
he
puts
out
there.
B
Of
Health
well,
thank
you,
honorable
speaker
and
through
you
to
the
opposition
house
leader.
I
would
say
that
what
people
in
BC
deserve
is
action
and
that's
what
they're
getting
honorable
speaker
we've
had
it
we've
gone
honorable
speaker
from
zero,
urgent
and
Primary
Care
Centers
to
29.
B
We've
served
1.4
million
people
who
have
honorable
speaker,
370
staff
in
The,
Honorable
speaker,
we've
added
59
Primary
Care
networks
who
have
1210
staff
in
The,
Honorable,
speaker
more
than
200
of
those
staff
to
support,
principally
family
practice,
doctors
and
nurse
practitioners
to
support
people
dealing
with
issues
of
mental
health
and
addiction,
more
than
200
added
net
to
Primary
Care
networks,
because
that
is
what
doctors
said.
They
needed.
B
Honorable
speaker,
we've
added
honorable
speaker,
surgeries,
surgical
nurses,
anesthesiologists
medical
processing,
technologists
such
honorable
speaker
that
those
weight
have
gone
down
and
honorable
speaker,
there
are
significant
challenges
in
these
times
of
pandemic
and
it's
why
we're
taking
action
everywhere,
honorable
speaker,
to
support
Primary
Care
to
support
patients
in
getting
the
care
they
need
and
deserve
in
the
community?
That's
why
we've
taken
the
actions
we've
taken
since
2017
when
BC
was
was
below
everybody
else.
B
In
key
categories
to
raise
up
those
standards,
why
we've
taken
actions
during
the
pandemic
to
address
the
very
serious
challenges
facing
all
aspects
of
our
Health
Care
system?
And
it's?
Why
we're
taking
action
now,
honorable
speaker
and
so
I,
would
say
to
The
Honorable
member
in
Kamloops
and
everybody,
where
else
and
in
Kamloops,
especially
where
they've
seen
more
challenges
than
anyone
else.
H
Well,
thank
you.
Mr
Speaker
and
today,
we've
heard
example
after
example,
and
it's
like
the
minister
doesn't
seem
to
want
to
acknowledge
that
this
is
what's
actually
happening
in
people's
everyday
lives
in
the
Health
Care
system,
in
British
Columbia,
on
August
25th
in
barrier
in
my
riding
tragically,
an
eight-month-old
baby
lost
their
life
waiting
for
an
ambulance
according
to
Troy
Clifford
of
the
ambulance
paramedics,
he
says
quote:
we
didn't
have
an
ambulance
available
for
somebody
in
their
time
of
need.
End
quote:
that's
the
reality
of
what's
happening
in
our
paramedic
system.
H
Right
now,
Mr
Speaker,
they're,
burned
out.
30
percent
are
reporting
feeling
burned
out.
30
percent.
We
have
acute
shortages
of
ambulance
across
this
province
and
this
Minister
keeps
standing
up
trying
to
make
it
sound.
Like
he's
done
everything
possible
and
he's
having
nothing
but
great
success,
he's
not
he's
failing
by
every
single
measure,
it's
putting
a
stress
on
the
family
that
loses
the
baby.
H
H
H
B
Foreign,
thank
you
honorable
speaker.
We
started
this
question
period.
At
least
I
did
talking
about
patience
and
healthcare
workers
and
Healthcare
professionals
the
difficulties
it
causes
when
people
don't
get
the
care
that
they
need
the
challenges
of
being
in
a
pandemic
and
the
overdose
Public
Health
emergencies
and
the
exceptional
steps
that
have
been
taken
to
address
these
difficult
times
in
the
opposition,
of
course,
is
doing
what
I
guess.
Oppositions
do
is
to
talk
about
politics.
B
Well,
honorable
speaker,
I,
don't
I,
don't
agree
with
that
approach
on
Old,
speaker,
I,
don't
know,
I,
don't
agree
on
that
approach.
Well,
honorable,
speaker,
honorable
speaker
in
every
case
when
tragedies
occur,
whatever
the
circumstances
and
we
can't,
as
the
member
will
well
know,
talk
about
the
circumstances.
It
is
awful.
It
is
beyond
awful
for
the
family
in
question
and
we,
if
we're
a
caring,
Society
grieve
with
them
and
take
every
step.
B
We
can
to
improve
a
Public
Health
Care
system
which
serves
us
well,
but
can
serve
us
better
and
I'm,
going
to
continue
to
give
everything
I
have
on
behalf
of
a
government
that
will
give
everything
that
we
have
to
support
a
Public,
Health
Care
system
that
gives
care
to
people
we'll
continue
to
do
that.
Honorable
speaker
continue
to
provide
the
support.
We
need
continue
to
transform
the
system
continue
to
break
down
barriers
continue
to
provide
support
for
people,
because
it's
those
patients
and
those
doctors
and
those
nurses
and
those
Health
Sciences
professionals.