Carroll County, MD Board of County Commissioners Open Sessions, 12 Jul 2023

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From YouTube: Board of Education/Board of Carroll County Commissioners Joint Meeting July 12, 2023

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https://www.carrollcountymd.gov

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Commissioner, ed rothstein, I welcome our colleagues from across the parking lot. The board of education.

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Along with all of our ccps friends and neighbors as we're having this joint uh florida county.

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Commissioners and board of education ccps meeting, I think, we're in a pathway to great.

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Success during very challenging times- and I think we're going to talk about some of.

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Those challenging times while we go through this agenda and allow us to open up for other.

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Discussions that we want, but as we always do, why don't we take a moment to pledge and.

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Moment of silence, see.

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The united states of america and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under god, indivisible.

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With the liberty and justice for all.

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I'll tell you it's pretty cool with the acoustics hearing the pledge that was pretty strong.

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And I know you're going to be describing this being a brick from east middle, and I appreciate.

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That and it's going to go in a a place of honor. So thank you very much for this gift.

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To us, um we have a lot of folks in the back, there's ted, okay and also don't know if you.

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Know: uh deb effingham, you know her from uh budget. We were able to acquire her in the.

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Front office as our deputy administrator and uh while roberta is somewhere in europe being.

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Safe on two wheels, but um definitely welcome um you and uh my opening remarks and without.

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Just uh hand it off to my colleagues quickly and then to uh you as well. Madam president,.

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Is um going where we're starting to go through mako, the maryland association counties, our.

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Conference is in middle august, and today we had a legislative subcommittee on the topics.

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We're going to discuss during the legislative season and there were 42 topics um brought.

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To our attention and we've got it down to, I think about 26., the intent is to get down.

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To four or five during, like prioritized topics during session now, I'm on the board of maryland.

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Associated counties, so this was like the first stab at it now, taking that sending uh giving.

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It to my colleagues um for their insight and ideas, thoughts, comments and moving forward.

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The reason I bring this up is one of those, as you would expect, is education and all those.

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Things wrapped around education. um Recently we had a a meeting, we being the board of metal.

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Associate counties with mabe and the state it was about three weeks ago. Nothing really.

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Came out of that meeting, except for the fact that we have a long ways to go in a relatively.

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Short period of time, and that we are committed to working together, um the voice of that's.

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Going to be us and you it's not us or you and I think that's that's an important piece.

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Of this, so uh we have a long ways to go in a very short period of time um and perception.

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Is reality to a large part of our community, so our intent is to take away some of those.

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Perceptions put in the objectiveness and make sure that that is the reality for our community.

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um So they understand what what is moving forward and what's not because there's just.

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So much happening with that, if any of my guys colleagues want to make any comments or thoughts.

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So I mean with reference to mako, I know the county. Our carolina carroll county is heavily.

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Involved with that organization- and I I certainly hope they can make some headways with this.

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Issue of the blueprint, I know we spent a lot of time and energy on it, but if this isn't.

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One of those issues where they can at least take into account all the different counties.

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And the very bare fact that blueprint helps some but hurts others. I I really really hope.

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That we get some positive results out of that that particular group I just want to thank.

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Everybody for being here, I think it's great- that we're meeting. I think that you're, probably.

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Well aware of the fact that the general consensus of the board is that we need to start the.

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Budget process we're at 525 now and and that's really what we've done have we taken some.

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Concrete steps to do that. No, but we've we've had a couple briefings when we're taking a.

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Look at the numbers because we can't wait until january february. I think you'd all probably.

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Agree with that so again, looking forward to the briefing today and as we go forward in.

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This budget process, which we all know, is going to be very important because they all are.

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For me, personally, it's really going to boil down to in terms of the school system you.

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Know what do we need and what do we want sometimes they're two different things, but particularly.

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On this issue of blueprint, I mean, as elected officials, you know if we are dealing with.

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Mandates dealing with legislation that we know may actually hurt our school system. What.

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Are we going to do about it and that's something that I hope all of us can we can work through.

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I I think it's nuanced and I think the verdict's still out on what that particularly looks.

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Like but again, I think it's imperative that we do the right thing for the children of.

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The carroll county public school system, so for me personally, that's that's where my head's.

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At as we move forward and uh again, and thank you everybody for for taking the time to put.

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Things together this morning this afternoon, oh thanks well said uh tom. I appreciate everybody.

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Being here today, I'm often reminded about how our community recognizes that our boards.

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Can meet and discuss topics which, for all of us, I think, is an incredible positive as.

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Times you know some organizations, we can't do that. uh You know they recognized this in.

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The past year, with the board of commissioners stepping up and funding the 99 of the budget.

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Requests that you all gave us our constituents are expecting us to be balanced partnerships.

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And incompetent financial stewards as positive action for the good of the community and education.

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As a whole, both sides must must continue to work to be effective leaders on behalf of.

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The public we serve to do this. We must enhance our collaborative efforts by ensuring there.

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Is always accurate and trans transparent information shared during our discussions, and we must.

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Improve how we interact on behalf of the public in our meetings, so that we deliver positive.

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Results for our community, and just to echo on both of my colleagues points regarding.

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Mako, you know we are hopeful, but obviously, as we all know, hope does not resolve or as.

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An answer, but I think the reality is we collectively have to work as a community. I know in the.

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Past that I'm not wanting to speak on too much the past today, but there's been perception.

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As commissioner rothstein pointed out that by some in the community that we all don't.

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Work together we have to work together. We don't have a choice both for blueprint and.

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As the community as a whole, so that's my goal is we all continue this conversation and move.

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Forward, whether it be future budget discussions or any other topics, we have to work together.

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And I look forward to that with all of you. Thank you well said, uh commissioner. Vigliate.

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Joe did you forget somebody not yet just making sure that not yet go ahead? Well, I'm just very.

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Briefly, to echo over everything, that's been said already. Thank you very much for agreeing.

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To to meet with us today and proceeding with the the process that we have in front of us.

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I will leave myself out of this as a matter of politest, but I'm extremely blessed to be.

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Working with all of you and these gentlemen up here as well and everybody to the left.

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Of me as well, um I know I've brought it up in the past and at some point in the near.

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Future I'd like to talk about putting together that joint letter between both our board and.

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Your board, I guess, as a I guess, an initial formal protest or or indication that the blueprint.

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Funding that we're required to provide for the plan that's supposed to be implemented.

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Is just simply unrealistic, and I think that uh you know, owing to speaking off, of what.

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Commissioner, gordon mentioned with respect to the community, that is something that they're.

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Looking for to know that the board of education and the board of commissioners are working.

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Together and that in areas where we do have over overlapping interests- and we are on the.

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Same side, we need to make our voices heard about these sort, uh and so I'm more than happy.

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To to put myself forward to help work on that letter, if everybody's interested in putting.

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Together such a letter and not only having the the heads of either of our boards sign.

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It, but all of us sign it, you know this. This really is a concerted effort, and I know that.

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The public perception has sometimes been in the past that the board of commissioners and.

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The board of education have kind of been abrasive with each other. That's certainly not the case.

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Now and in a situation where we are able to work together to achieve some common ender.

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To attempt to achieve some common end, I think we certainly can you know again, I'm I really.

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Do feel blessed by god that everyone who's serving on this board right now is, and everyone.

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Over here is as well and that not just the elected officials but our administrative officials.

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As well, so thank you very much for uh meeting with us today. Thank you. Okay, thanks and.

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Commissioner keller kenny right well, thank you. um I can't forget you one more comment.

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About mako um in in uh the meeting I was involved in, they mentioned that 90. I think it was of.

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Bills we opposed did not pass correct and sometimes in annapolis, that's as important.

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As what does pass is what you can keep from passing, I it's a few right now. I wish we could.

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Have kept from passing, but we didn't and again thank everybody here. This is great and I think.

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A symptom of, hopefully, how we're working together and we'll work together. The agenda probably.

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Was put out more more later than it would have normally been, and a couple people asked.

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Me and I said well, that's because it's not controversial we're not fighting about it.

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I kind of don't care what the agenda looks like as long as both of us agree with it and.

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We show up, I didn't feel that same way in the past and speaking of my past before palestine,.

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Does I I want to thank you for the county on grooming me for four years for this job.

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I don't curse anymore, I'm better prepared.

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Madam president, uh it is now uh again thank.

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You so much. Thank you on behalf of the board, I would like to thank the commissioners for.

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Hosting us with the meeting today, I'm glad to see that we are following through on our.

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Commitments for regular meetings and that's so important and I'm glad we're doing that.

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I hope that the excellent working relationship we have established will continue and I think.

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People are starting to see that in the county we will still have many issues and challenges.

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Facing us, as we all know, and as we've seen in the past, when our two boards communicate.

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And work together, we are able to do what is needed and I thank you and I have to say one.

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Thing on blueprint at this time last year, people thought cindy and I had six horns. Three.

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Noses big ears and we're nuts, but only one county is not in trouble coming up this year.

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And funding the blueprint and everybody is starting to see that we weren't crazy. We were.

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Telling the truth all along and people were actually starting to listen to us and uh so.

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Now we have a lot of counties on our side all, but one that can afford this um and I'm.

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So glad that people uh boards of education legislators have seen this- and this is something.

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That is going to be a struggle for all counties in the state of maryland, but one thank you.

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um Dr dorsey, we'll start down at that end. Okay, great! Thank you um good afternoon. Everyone.

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And again, thanks for hosting our meeting this afternoon, commissioners, we're um very glad.

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To be a part of our meeting today, um as I spent my morning hours, I was involved in a.

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A meeting with our may board of directors- and I understand that makeup was meeting this.

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Morning and I know there have been a joint meeting in the past and I think you've already.

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Hit upon something that I will again emphasize as we go forward, we have to go forward together.

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Because it's not a an us versus them. But in order for us to to make blueprint and all.

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Of our other initiatives work, we have to really work through those items together. So I appreciate.

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Your willingness to listen, your willingness to sort of problem solve with us and your.

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Willingness to just join us on this journey as we go forward together. So thank you very.

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Much and I look forward to our dialogue this afternoon and and you guys ever hear- probably.

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That don't know this, I don't suck in a lot of motions in our meeting. That's because of.

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Dr dorsey, I had to look at her and get permission before I could second emergency. Okay,.

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um Just want to echo a lot of the comments that have already been made thanks thanks.

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For having us here today and thanks for joining us on a on a regular basis, I know that we.

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Decided not to have the last meeting just because of timing with all the other budget.

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Discussions that were going on, but I think it's just imperative that we get together.

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On a regular basis, because this is how we really work together be collaborative and.

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Get things done, I think that our our hearts and our intentions are all in the same place.

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Which is fantastic, um I think together we can get a lot accomplished um totally agree.

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That you know we need to start early on this year's budget process because it's going to.

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Be probably one of the toughest, if not the toughest uh one, that we've ever had at least.

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As a school system and they're they're buy for the county as well, so really appreciate.

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You guys being true partners in this. We may not always agree on every step of the way.

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But I think the end goal is the same for both of us, so I think it's just great that we can.

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Have these these discussions so star early start, often right um and joe, I completely.

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Agree with the approach of the joint letter, I think that that's something that we need.

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To work on and and leverage the fact that other counties have now come around um marcia.

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You had said you know. A year ago, people thought that we were crazy and that we were behind.

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The eight ball- and you know we were too slow and trying to figure this out and what you.

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Know that's why we were in trouble and people have realized like no. We were actually the.

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Ones that were ahead of the game, understanding what this truly meant and we've brought others.

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Along with us they're saying: oh now we get it and yes, there are significant issues so.

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We need to leverage that across all the other counties in the state, so I think together.

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You know we can, we can get this done, it's going to be a tough road, but but we can do.

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This and yeah, and that's staggering to me when you mentioned that only one county is.

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Prepared for this I figured it might have been a couple, but just one that really is.

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We were leaders, we were leading the back and getting the word out, but yeah. That's one. Just.

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uh You know just real quick, a reminder that, because I know I shared it before because.

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It's only been a short um seven, eight months when our now governor moore had to make of.

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Directors together and said who have you have been a part of the development of the blueprint.

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And one person out of 16 of us raised their hands and because he was on the committee.

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From queensland county, nobody in the state was a part as far as the leadership was a.

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Part of the development of blueprint and yeah, so nor were the local boards, nor was msde.

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None of them were part of developing it and the the part yeah. That is where we're at unfortunately,.

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It was, it was developed uh in a vacuum. It really was with no understanding of what the.

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Implications were of executing it, um and- and I think the last thing I wanted to say was.

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That I think we we also need to involve the delegation as as early and as often as possible.

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Because you know we're going to probably be pushing for waivers and things like that and.

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We just need to make sure that we're all on the same page with them as well, so you're.

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Proposing, maybe a joint joint meeting we've had those and we tend to do them in the october time frame. Maybe we have more.

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Than one of those or maybe we have it a little bit earlier than we normally have so that.

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We can prepare for for the upcoming session, rather than it being a mad scramble at the.

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Last minute to try to get some things in their hands that it'd be much more planned out and.

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Prepared ahead of time, I like that idea, and it could be, it could be the next one where.

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You know july august, it could be like a september mid-september this way. It's after mako.

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You know the legislators will have time to start chewing on things. uh It's our intent.

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To get bond bills to them quicker uh this year and starting now, what are some initiatives.

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But uh we can send an invitation together to our delegation and uh yeah. Just have another.

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Joint meeting like we because we did it last year, I thought so. Yes.

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um So yeah, thank you again for hosting our partnership is extremely important, showing.

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All of you, a planned detailed budget request annually and showing where every dollar of.

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Taxpayer money is going and showing the accountability piece and I think that's extremely important.

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For um you know our voters to understand and see that we proved everything to you and we.

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Show you everything many times a year, but working together for the county is extremely.

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Beneficial and I'm glad that we are able to have open dialogue together and you know have.

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The good conversations of you know what is better for for this county as a whole, so thank.

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You thank you. Thank you, mr whistler, again good afternoon. Thank you for having us today.

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It's I really appreciate these dialogues. um I can't really add much more than what's been.

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Said but I will tell you for me: there are three things you know considering. Commissioner,.

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Bigelotti's comments, three things that really come to my mind with regards to trying to.

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Change in annapolis, one of which is the 75 compensatory edward spending requirement that.

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Mandate alone will force us to move teachers around the system and just kill the class.

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Sizes in our county, the student-teacher ratios, will be horrible and that will directly affect.

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Our academic performance, so we've really got to convey to stakeholders across the state.

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And again, this is something that's going to affect every jurisdiction. Another requirement.

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We really should focus on eliminating. Is the 60 40 teaching requirement for educators, giving.

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Them the well-deserved pay increases they need and should get but insisting they work.

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Less is crazy in my mind. It's absolutely irresponsible. We have one of the best performing counties.

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In the state academically and the 60 40 teaching split will probably require us to hire 125.

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Or more teachers to fill those gaps created by that non-teaching time that we can't let.

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Them teach, I don't know where we're going to find the money more or less the people.

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To fill 125 vacancies, what is that? I 60 40 teaching split one of the blueprint mandates.

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Says that a teacher cannot teach more than 60 of the day and and the and the reason behind.

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It is very, very good in that it helps increase planning. It helps create collaboration. I get.

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It, but when you look at our academic standing and the performance that we have, it will just.

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Incredibly, kill us financially and that we have to find people to fill those gaps. It.

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Is just incredibly irresponsible, in my view, do we average 75-25 now maybe or where are.

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We, you think level at the high school level, for example, there's four mods a day. Teachers typically.

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They teach three mods and have one planning mod, so we're closer to the high school level.

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However, at the elementary level, we're not we're nowhere near close to to that 60.. That's.

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60 40, they won at elementary middle and high school. Every teacher, every single educator.

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How do you do that when, and I apologize just as an elementary school teacher, I thought.

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You're teaching, like your class and your class, is there from morning to end I mean you just.

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Had a 30-minute lunch period free and you get a planning period where the kids are at.

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Specials but again the other piece that you're alluding to is that again, if we would have.

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To build in, like some professional development time in their day um again, you know they would.

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Not be in front of their classes at that point they would be doing professional development.

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Concept activities, someone else would have to be with those kids. I'm sorry pardon me dr dorsey ontario, but it's additional staff and the concept, especially at the elementary.

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Level of a student having a teacher in some instances, two teachers during the day could.

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Change and it could be a more of a shared collective approach amongst teachers, so students.

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Will be working with with additional staff to be able to meet that meet that requirement.

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And there's a dollar cost, obviously associated with this, is that dollar cost been calculated.

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For carroll county yeah, it's actually something that will be covered today. Okay, I apologize.

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Okay and then the other issue is that when you look at all the teacher producing programs.

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In our state, the colleges and universities, I looked at it myself on the maryland data.

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Link system we produce about 1500 teachers a year, 24 jurisdictions. Looking for all these.

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New teachers at the 60 40 split will require it's just not realistic and what's going to.

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End up happening is we're going to have to hire so many people that are not qualified.

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To fill those seats- and I do not want to see unqualified people in front of our students.

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And then the last thing I think we need to focus on is eliminating this requirement for.

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Assistant principals, to teach 25 of the day, it is just unbelievable to think that we can.

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Put more on our aps to have them teach 25 of the day, it's just not possible. In my view,.

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So we do have at least I have personally a few things in my mind that I'm sure the staff.

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Can bring in more but you're right together, working on this working on a joint letter.

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Feeding this information to our legislators getting an early start because again it's.

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A very short 90-day cycle in the legislature: they have to change these things legislatively.

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And look, we have to at least consider waivers I get while these some of these mandates were.

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In place because of the frivolous waste in other jurisdictions in the state, but our county.

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Is always top three in math science ela? We have proven performance. We need the flexibility.

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At the local level to pull the levers to not increase class sizes and, more importantly,.

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Not to put unqualified people in front of our kids and maintain high academic success.

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In our county, but I really appreciate you getting together with us today and I look.

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Forward to to future sessions right now, we're now putting unprepared teachers in front of.

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Our kids, as of today correct, I would say this herbert, is correct, but we do have more teachers.

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On conditional certificates in our classrooms than we ever have in the past, and that's because.

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As mr whistler said, we don't have enough teachers graduating from maryland colleges to fill.

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All of the vacancies and our hr department goes and recruits in in many different areas.

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Not just maryland, but it's very difficult to fill all the positions we have with those.

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That are certificated, so we do have many more conditional certificates and that worries.

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Me, because you know will that affect our academic achievement it. It could, and we want to put.

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The best people in front of our students possible, dr mckay, can you put a quantity on that? What.

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Will you say the percentage of the conditional teachers can be? I would look to ernesto for.

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That that would be interesting to to have that that, along with what is defined as conditional.

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The certification assessments that need to be taken or have not completed the coursework.

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That they need to complete for a teaching certificate. That's the last question part.

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Of that is how many that are conditional actually become certified. Some do I don't know, I don't.

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Have any numbers right? I can speak to a personal situation. I got my teaching certificate from.

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The troops to teacher program americorps, and so I had a conditional certification when.

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I taught in baltimore county for two years and I was given a two-year window to complete.

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My certification, so that's an example of where someone maybe not can not certificated but.

K

Then they're given a certain amount of time, but that's just uh but again I don't think.

K

It's I don't think we have a very high percentage of uncertified people in our in our schools.

K

But I I'll defer to staff on that, and I would say the bigger bigger here is that fewer and.

N

Fewer people are choosing to go into education as their career choice and until that changes, these issues aren't going to change, and I know that that's part of what the kerwin commission.

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Set out to do when they wrote the blueprint for maryland's future is that they wanted.

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To change things in such a way that it would that it would be a career choice that more.

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People would look to go into you know. I know that parts of the blueprint address things.

N

Like salary planning time issues that would that that we hear from teachers now about.

N

um But you know, I'm not sure, I'm not sure that everything that what is in the blueprint.

H

Is are the only things that are keeping people from going into education and it's a bit of chicken and egg too right like they basically are saying? Well, you know you need to find all of these people now. You know before it's actually fixed, I mean. Aren't there some jurisdictions.

A

Already jumping forward with the salary changes that we cannot afford. Right now I mean there's.

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Other counties that are either providing bonuses or getting to the 60 000. Yes, we're all moving.

N

All right, um you know at first it looked like it would put us on a more equal playing field with.

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All of the other districts so that we would be more competitive and be able to get more.

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Teachers to come to carroll county, but we know that some of our neighboring districts.

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Have already declared that they will be offering more than 60 000 in their minimum, starting.

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Salary some up to 70 75 000 starting, so I think what was put into blueprint as something.

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That that would attract people to education. It may help to attract some people, but I don't.

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Know that it's going to help us here in carroll county as well, and I know we have a briefing.

B

To get to, but so just one more aspect of this discussion regarding teachers and the conditional.

B

Uncertified teachers does that situation lead to the um the the reliance on substitutes.

B

The way it does I mean is that that's one of the reasons why we're looking at a budget for subitute teachers that continues to grow because we've got to literally fit people.

B

Into these holes, if you will, and during the day yes, okay, correct yeah, we still have.

N

You know we have positions on the field right now that we will start, but we have certain positions like special education, physicians, speech, pathologists,.

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Secondary science and math teachers that have always historically been difficult to fill.

N

And in the present situation it's become more difficult. Do we typically exhaust that substitute.

B

Budget, if you will, and if it's not exhausted it just carries over to the next year- is that.

B

The generally speaking, a very basic overview of that, I'm not sure if my mic's owner, I would.

O

Say that historically we didn't exhaust the budget since the pandemic we have, and so we've.

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Supplemented um budgets in bigger categories, but we supplemented certain categories where.

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Savings were realized elsewhere and mr diaz, our hr director sort of describes what we're.

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Experiencing as churning um so when you hire people who are maybe not as well prepared.

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Or as prepared to be right in the classroom, as you might have in the past, they need more.

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Mentoring, they need more support and we we're not really. um If you look at our sort of our.

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Central support versus other counties: we don't have a ton of people just to throw at that.

O

And so sometimes you lose those folks or or they don't make it or you need them out of the classroom in order to be supported, and you need substitutes for that and then, as.

O

We've added positions, whether it's blueprint related or just response to pandemic. We tend.

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To be hiring our own folks, so if we create assistant, instructional assistant positions,.

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For instance, we're hiring- um maybe our one-to-one special ed assistance to fill those in your.

O

And that's what ernesto describes as the as kind of the churning that we're seeing everywhere.

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In the school system, so you know I keep hoping that will stabilize. I think it. I think it's.

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Better this past year, by the end of the year than it had been, but it's it's not where we.

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Once were by any measure on the conditional question, you know just to be clear: they are.

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Certified under under maryland law regulations and there's a range of reasons why somebody.

O

Could be conditional, it could be just a complete career change or it could be somebody who has taught in the past or held a certificate. They just need six. Current credits, there's.

O

A wide range uh and we're still fluidly hiring right now, there's a hundred some names coming.

O

To the board event tonight, but um I would say that that percentage is is not double-digit.

O

By any means, um but it's higher than it's been for us, but I will say that once we hire.

F

These people, they do have a tendency to stay and because we have a great support system.

F

I mean our schools are very well run and we have a great benefit package and they really.

F

uh That health package really helps us in in carroll county. It really does and they.

F

Find out how well this system is run, then that's a plus for us, even though we might.

F

Not make as much they might but and also they've left, and we have they've been coming back.

F

To us again so and that's a big thing, but I would say how well the schools are run and.

F

And the behavior of our students and that benefit package is a biggie especially have.

A

A breakdown of retention rates at the different levels. That would be something I think very.

A

Positive to share, if it's you know well above other communities, um because that does mean.

A

A lot of people almost sometimes younger folks, don't see those benefits. They're strong, but.

A

If they start seeing the percentages of retention, like obviously something's right, let me dig.

A

A little deeper and do due diligence so anything else to say no.

F

No, I would just echo what everyone has said: I'm glad that we're continuing to meet and.

N

Discuss the issues at hand- and you know in a nutshell, I would just say that you know.

N

In the past, we've been able to um work with the board of commissioners in the budget process.

N

And really get an understanding of you would get an understanding of what our needs were.

N

What our priorities and initiatives were and then you could could help us. You know to budget.

N

For that, but this is a completely different animal in that we are being told what we have.

N

To do what initiatives need to be done and how they're going to be done, and so it isn't.

N

Like in the past, when we could say, okay, we're not going to have the funding to do the initiative.

N

That we wanted to do so, we won't do it we'll wait until that funding is more readily available.

N

We don't have that flexibility anymore and what I don't know the answer to and no one knows the answer to is what will happen when say we can't do this, we don't you know, we.

N

Don't have the money to do this, what will happen will will we be penalized with you.

N

Know in the state I'm not sure, but I think that that that's where we're at at this point.

N

Is trying to determine um what kind of funding we'll be able to receive and what we'll be.

N

Able to do with that funding and whatever funding we don't get, then we've got to make.

N

Those tough decisions about okay, you know in in order to follow the law. This is what.

N

We have to do that, may not benefit every student in our system and that's that's. I think, where.

N

The concern comes for all of us is we want the best school system for all of our students.

N

And we don't want to have to make decisions that um that maybe hurt some students so so.

N

That's you know, as we said, what we'll have to work together with you to um to determine.

N

So, thank you thank you for being in this with us. Okay, thank you. Do you mind if I jump in.

H

On um thanks for some of the comments cindy, um I think one of the things that we really.

H

Need to understand is I mean we need to itemize. You know these are. These? Are the requirements.

H

Of the blueprint, this is exactly how much money we expect it to cost, and this is how.

H

Much money we're going to get from the state right and put it in those terms. Because when.

H

Blueprint was passed, it was basically stated that you know the state was supposed to come.

H

Up with the the additional money like it said that carroll county was appropriately funding.

H

Education and any additional funds required by the blueprint should be coming from the.

H

State that is clearly not true, and I think we need to point that out. We need to itemize.

H

It we need to show them the numbers and say: okay, this, these mandates will require 42 million.

H

Dollars you know annually and the state is providing 12. right. Then you cannot ex. If.

H

If carroll county was appropriately funding education before then, okay, what what changed.

H

In the last year, right- and this is why we can't do the things that we're saying we can't.

H

Do right? No, I I appreciate you know from the mako discussion. I have it circled and starred.

A

And it is transparency and education spending so um and I think every jurisdiction did the.

A

Same thing, so that will be. I expect one of the high topics or priority topics. Let's.

A

If it's okay move on uh mr ted zaleski, I think, are you uh the lead of discussion and presentation.

P

Sure I was thinking about leading anything, but I was gonna you're a podcaster. You have.

A

A following so followings usually have leaders and you're. You know.

A

You can either talk about president garfield or the budget.

A

Okay, uh the superintendent I talked a month or so ago, maybe about how the school capital.

P

Program is funded and thought. Maybe this is a good time to talk to both boards. How that.

P

Works and what it can do, what it can't do as we approach another budget, and it's also.

P

Timely, I think, because maybe we're in a little bit of a changing place right now,.

P

Carroll county public schools, construction has been pretty boring for a number of years.

P

We're doing roofs we're doing hvacs. There haven't been a lot of high profile projects.

P

Career in tech and east middle school are the two exceptions and they're happening right.

P

Now but if you look at the last 15 years, that's mostly what's happened. uh It wasn't always.

P

The case we used to be much busier figuring out what was going to get funded and then.

P

Trying to get things built.

P

You all are discussing now potential additions to freedom elementary school in sykesville.

P

Middle school, we know there's a long list of other needs. I think you've identified in.

P

Winchester as your highest modernization priority, but that's far from alone and kind of what.

P

Goes along with that is with how our funding works. We are in a position right now, where.

P

The county can actually take on some projects that 10 years ago, yeah we would have said.

P

There isn't any money, that's not the case now. So there is some money and I guess that's.

P

That's really what I want to talk about. Is you know? How does that work and how do we.

P

Think about where to go from here, so the county going back to the late 90s has dedicated a.

P

Portion of its income tax to the school construction program uh that it's not in law, nobody tells.

P

Us we have to do it uh board of commissioners decided to do it, and other boards have left.

P

It in place, although I you know, I have to say that any board could say we're not doing.

P

This anymore, um that's totally in their hands. I think there are good reasons for doing it.

P

I think it served both the county and the school system. Well, I think maybe the big thing.

P

That it does, for both sides is there's an identified pot of money that is, for the purposes.

P

Of school construction, so a school project is not in competition with a road or a community.

P

College or library project.

P

We almost it's almost like there's two different processes, now downside potentially from the.

P

School's point of view is okay, but that also limits how much money there is we're saying.

P

There's the putt we're not thinking about well, if we need more than that, what are we.

P

Going to do that hasn't been part of the process and you could make that argument. But when.

P

We weigh the two against each other. Again, I think even just from the school system's.

P

Point of view, I think it's a it's, been a a good thing, so this is 9.09 percent of our.

P

Income tax and might be a easy question to say: 9.09, that's a really crazy number who.

P

Came up with that, I was commissioner rosting. No.

M

Right, no, uh commissioner rothstein had probably never even thought about funding a school.

P

Project when this number came up, this actually goes back years. People still call county income.

P

Tax, the piggyback tax sometimes, but there was a time when uh what happened was you figured.

P

Out your state taxes and then each county had a percentage that you apply applied to.

P

Your state obligation, so you owed two thousand dollars. You know county, had a 50 percent piggyback.

P

So your county tax was one thousand dollars years ago the county decided they were going.

P

To make I mean the state decide they were going to make changes in the state income.

P

Tax system that would have carried over to to counties they would have been making decisions.

P

For 24 other jurisdictions, what their income taxes would look like and one time where they.

P

Got it right, they decoupled state income tax from income tax, so we now had each county.

P

Now had a percentage that got you the same level of revenue at that point, but was no.

P

Longer tied to how much state tax you were going to get um when that decoupling happened.

P

We changed from a 40 or 50 or 60 percent to a three percent or two point: five percent.

P

Something like that, but that that left the the school system with this 9.09 percent deal.

P

Is just just the math.

P

So how much money is available is driven very directly by how is income tax doing for us.

P

One good news story for you right now is the income tax has been strong in in recent years.

P

We're still struggling to fully understand what that means, and what that those for our.

P

Future, but we we've accumulated a a significant pot of money there. Now, when you look at how.

P

Much money is sitting there, and this is just one one piece and I almost hate to throw this out isolated from the rest of.

P

The story, but I think in what we think of as the balance that's available for school.

P

Projects there's 37 million dollars approximately, but then when you say what do we do with that.

P

37 million dollars and what are the implications for the future? That's where things get complicated.

P

Very quickly, there's two ways: we can use the money. That's coming in income tax. We can use.

P

It as cash on a school, we can buy a brick you paid for it once and that money is available.

P

Again next year or we can issue debt if we issue debt, now, we've committed ourselves to.

P

20 years worth of of payments, so it has very different impacts on how much is available.

P

To you in the future for other decisions you want to make, so there can be a lot of incentive.

P

To say: okay, there's money, let's use it, let's get some things done and that's not necessarily.

P

Wrong, but if we do that, then we need to acknowledge that you've spent that money. Now you have.

P

To wait years to accumulate money to make the next move.

P

I don't know if I said that right. That was, if we use it to issue issued debt now, if we.

P

Use it as cash, you spend it this year, but that money is still there again next year.

P

So you can spend 10 million dollars in cash come back next year and spend 10 million dollars.

P

Of cash spend 10 million on on debt, and you have to wait time before uh you can go there.

M

Again so we we used to be dead before she abandoned me.

P

We watch very carefully how how committed are we in this stream of money? How much of.

P

It is going to ongoing commitments rather than just one-time uses, and one way you can.

P

Look at this is: if we commit 100 of what we expect to come in every year, then there is.

P

No new money other than whatever increase there might be an income tax that we didn't.

P

Plan for or whatever debt service dropped off, but even that now that would be built.

P

In so you really you're really only looking at how much income tax did you get that you.

P

Didn't expect you know, so maybe you know we got seven hundred thousand dollars more than.

P

We we planned on there's now seven hundred thousand dollars that you could do something.

P

With, but you know, can't get a whole lot accomplished for seven hundred thousand now on this idea.

P

Of being 100 committed, you might say well that would never happen, uh but it in fact.

P

Can happen and has happened, and uh the most difficult time for us was when we built.

P

Manchester valley, high school, we took on a lot of debt with with that school and we actually.

P

Were in a position where we were committed beyond 100, of what we expected to come in.

P

Every year, which meant we were using all the money that was coming in and we were eating.

P

In to the balance that that existed at that time, so at that point this might be overly.

P

Simple, but there there was no extra money. There was no other money to to go to now. We're.

P

Not no longer in that position, but as we make choices on what projects the school system.

P

Wants to take on what projects the commissioners are willing to fund that has to be part of.

P

Of the thinking, how much of it is cash that we can use again next year, how much of it.

P

Is debt service and that will impact how quickly you can get projects done.

P

And the other thing that comes into the mix here is how much state funding will be available.

P

We can look at what's the county have what county capacity does that create, but if the.

P

State gave a dollar for every dollar we're getting, and I'm not suggesting that that would.

P

Be the case I mean that doubles the capacity, so we have to think about that too. How much.

P

Can we take on by what we have in our hands and what we can expect the the state to do.

P

I have a feeling there were a couple other things I meant to say, but I'm not thinking.

P

Of them now, but if you know, if there are questions, I can take funding army capacity and state.

G

P

uh Yeah well, of course, there's always going to be a question on how much is the state.

P

Going to put in and that's become so much more complicated with this parallel school.

P

Construction track yeah, and I guess part of it when we think about what can be accomplished.

P

In capacity there's also 15 years ago, when we were doing a lot of projects or beyond 15 years ago, probably we had gotten.

P

To a point where we figured 10 or 12 million dollars a year was about what we could expect.

P

It wasn't the same every year, but you know we had an expectation of that. I think we've.

C

Had many years where that's about what we're getting now, some were probably haven't even.

P

Gotten 10 or 12 million dollars as we. If we look to take on more projects, there'll be.

P

uh Maybe an expectation certainly a hope that the state is going to come through with more.

P

If their pot isn't significantly changing, the thing we need to recognize, though, is the.

P

Only way we get more is if somebody else gets gets less, and I doubt any other counties are.

P

Going to volunteer to be the other one, you know, so what will that? What will that mean.

P

For us, so any yeah um ted I did want to ask john um about yeah, so we had developed the the.

H

Fci index um sort of calculation on the the school side, basically saying you know if the.

H

Average life lifespan of a school before a new modernization is needed is 40 years right.

H

Like and there are things that need to be updated on a maintenance things that need.

H

To be updated on a regular basis and we basically calculated an aggregate fci score for the.

H

School system and said: okay: this is the facilities condition index and if we don't want that.

H

To deteriorate right like we, we don't necessarily have to improve it, but we don't want that.

H

To deteriorate over time, that would require us. You know, on the schedule of how things.

H

How maintenance items would come? Do that means that we have to put 40 40 million dollars.

H

Of capital projects into the school system every year right- um and you know I I'd like.

H

To see how that potentially marries up with current debt service and and current capacity.

H

Coming from that 9.09 percent, um you know, I think we updated it so now it looks like.

H

It probably that number has inflated to probably 46 47 million dollars a year in order to keep.

H

Pace um with maintenance needs, um but has there been any collaboration between the two.

H

Departments to kind of understand that and no no but.

P

I think that would be a good thing, but almost irrelevant in our current situation, because.

P

We can't get even remotely close to those kind of numbers. You know when I said we're.

P

Sitting on a balance, the balance we're sitting on is 37 million dollars. We have roughly 20.

P

Million dollars a year coming in from income tax, much of that is already committed, though.

P

To uh debt service of choices that are already made, you know the idea of us being able to.

P

Come up with 46 million dollars a year for school construction uh they're just simply.

P

They're under current circumstances, there is no way to to accomplish that right and.

H

That that's not all from the county that that's 46 million total like including money that.

H

Would come from the state right but clearly clearly, your point is well made, though, that.

H

Even if that's half, even if it's only half of the 46 million, we don't have that kind.

H

Of funding available, but I think that those are numbers that we need to see on the page.

H

To understand the exact situation that we're in and what implications that has for the.

H

Condition of the the school system over time, yeah, yeah and a good point so the way I said.

P

That what was wrong and if you think in real simple terms, you know if you need 46 million.

P

Dollars a year and half of that is coming from the state now, of course, I would question.

P

If we can really expect 23 million dollars a year from the state, I don't, I don't believe.

M

We can, uh but if we could and the county's left with 23 million- and we have 20 million.

P

Dollars a year coming in than you are in the ballpark, if there weren't already other commitments.

P

That service we need to pay for you know if, if you could use all that as cash every year,.

P

You you could almost get there.

P

If I could bring up one more point, there's a couple of more issues that I think will.

K

Significantly affect our capital issues going forward and one is growing growing enrollment.

K

In the county, we're on a trajectory now growing to heights we've never seen before in our.

K

County within the next, what decade or so, coupled with the blueprint mandate that requires full.

K

Day, pre-k for three and four-year-olds and um thankfully they've already got a waiver.

K

In place for the pre-k issue, because we can't find enough partners in the community to meet.

K

The 50 50 requirement and if we are required to increase brick and mortar of our schools,.

K

To accommodate full day pre-k for three and four-year-olds, I just don't know where we're.

K

Going to find the capital funds to expand our schools to accommodate the three and four-year-old.

K

Full day, pre-k requirement so again, that's just something else to keep in your mind as.

K

We go forward. Oh yeah, definitely, a concern of mine and back from the full day, kindergarten.

P

Mandate, we still have four schools that haven't had expansions there, so those are still hanging.

P

Out there clearly we don't have the space to house all the pre-k students that we're.

P

We're talking about- and you know another difficult, it's difficulty for you, but it's also a difficulty.

P

For us trying to figure out these these things, you know the the blueprint idea that half.

P

Of this was going to be half a pre-k was going to be provided by the private sector, which.

P

I don't think anybody believes, but it's still the law. How do we plan for what we need to.

P

Do for pre-k space when we don't even know how many pre-k students were responsible for.

P

The expectations on enrollment, um you know last meeting I attended with you, went through.

A

The master plan and the numbers there were some definite challenges in specific schools.

A

And specific grades I think, but overall was it wasn't like a blanket increase in enrollment.

A

Was it I'm trying to recall last year's numbers? Last year our enrollment increased right.

N

It increasing each year. um John, do you have.

N

uh And actually they're in your packet, we put in your packet of the prison presentation.

O

Just for reference that commissioner rothstein just mentioned from a work session in late.

O

May it's the one that says: educational facilities, master plan and regrettably I printed the.

O

Copy where the slide numbers are sort of tucked into the ccps logo. But it's slide five, which.

O

Gives you that five year window? So um you know we do 10-year projections by by state.

O

Requirements, um mr kane, our facilities, planner, is, is very accurate even across a 10-year.

O

Window but five, the five-year mark has always been the year or the benchmark where we've.

O

Looked at sort of like a good planning year and where bill is actually very, very accurate.

O

And so that that's that fifth slide would show you what superintendent just said. We.

O

Were up 745 students this year, we don't expect to continue to to grow. At that rate, over five.

O

Or ten years, but our projections at each of the three levels uh in this most recent round.

O

Of projections which which the president of your board saw at that meeting, are significantly.

O

Higher than they were pre-pandemic or the last time we had a pretty accurate look, five.

O

Years out and so to mr whistler's point, if you see the projections they may well be in.

O

Here for the full 10 years, but if you see the projection over a 10-year window, it would.

O

Have us growing back to a place where we're very close to our highest enrollment point.

O

Ever and you know, I think somebody might have just asked the question: where is it or maybe.

O

Mr mr rusting alluded to it so where we were already seeing pressure in certain schools.

O

And particularly in the southern area that you see that amplified, and that has something.

O

To say about the work of the southern area, redistricting committee and some additions.

O

That mr zaleski just referred to, but in general that's you know that growth is sort of seen.

O

Across the school system- and so you see, um if you flip from the from there to the next.

O

Couple of slides you'll see a lot of southern area schools, but you also begin to see some.

O

Schools in different parts of the county, particularly westminster area, is starting to show up as.

O

um As being defined as approaching inadequate or inadequate under the board of ed's policy,.

O

On utilization of a school building, and so I guess for us, the broad theme was we're growing.

O

Again, after a period of time where we were either retracting or had sort of flattened.

O

And then, from a from a what to do right now, standpoint, a big part of that work session.

O

On the 31st was: what do we do with the southern area, where we had invested a lot of time in.

O

And redistricting, and now the numbers have sort of shifted. You know significantly at.

O

Least, in my mind, from what the committee looked at and we have the blue crown, you know we.

O

Have we have this other thing that we weren't, anticipating or thinking about from a capital.

O

Lens then so so, where do we go forward and so the board of ed made that made the decision.

O

If not, that night at their june meeting, to go ahead and include in its in the board's.

O

Educational facilities master plan, the larger edition of the two options presented for sykesville.

O

And the smaller edition for for freedom, and but just so that everyone's clear that was.

O

One part of figuring out the the issue of capacity utilization in the southern part.

O

Of the county or or increasingly more of the county, not the complete, complete solution.

O

There and then so the direction beyond that was, let's then spend the next year. Looking.

O

For other solutions and alternatives and what they might be and and report back periodically.

O

To the to the board, and so you know no disagreements with anything that ted has said, but the way.

O

The capital picture has always worked from sort of this side of the parking lot. Is we.

O

We do the facilities master plan because we're required to, but also because that's sort of.

O

Like our needs analysis- and I think sometimes citizens might get a little they maybe it.

O

Bothers folks, if we request something and then you don't fund it, but that's that's it's.

O

No different than the operating budget really, when you think about it, that's how it works.

O

So the facilities plan is the needs analysis, the cip, which the board of ed votes on in.

O

October is the budget request, and then you you consider that, just like you do the operating.

O

Budget request and I think, there's always been an understanding that you you're not.

O

Going to be able to fund everything that you know most years has been requested just to.

O

Shake ted up a bit at that same meeting and in the master plan willie, william winchester,.

O

Is no longer the priority liberty high school that changes, how to view your bottom line.

O

And we would understand that going forward, but either way they're both concerns. They.

O

Are concerns and then for the blueprint there's more than just pre-k. We've talked most about.

O

That because it's sort of the cleanest to try to understand in last year's master plan,.

O

There there was the beginning of the process to try to address full day pre-k our share.

O

Under the law, not what happens if the private sector doesn't show up, that's still outside.

O

The realm of where the board's planning documents would be, and then there's more and we actually.

O

Have reference to it in the slideshow for later there's more parts of the blueprint.

O

That have a capital impact as well, but not as large as the the full day. Pre-K part does.

A

And um liberty is because you adjusted the timeline correct associated with um yeah, so.

O

The analysis that we use to get to what uh board members civic need referred to as an.

O

Fcr facility condition index the initial assessment uh reviewed all of the schools constructed.

O

Up to 1980 right and this past year, we added some a chunk of schools since 1980 liberty.

O

Had never been assessed and was now assessed as a result of that process and that's why.

O

It suddenly appears, maybe to some out of nowhere to us, we've always known when we assess that.

O

School, it's it's! It's going to be a priority, but we do a an aging condition index and a.

O

What we call a functional index or how well does the building serve the educational programs.

O

In liberty school, I think, scored last in both of those areas, but certainly in the composite.

O

Score scores last, which makes it less means it becomes the top priority. So it's it jumped.

O

Ahead of where it maybe didn't jump ahead of once assessed, it became the top priority.

E

And, and for whatever reason, um we don't need to go back in time. Liberty was built more.

E

Cheaply than most of the carroll county schools and anybody that that deals with schools know.

E

It's had maintenance issues; um the only reason it wasn't the highest priority is because.

E

It wasn't counted correct and I think everybody and you've talked to the maintenance guys.

E

I mean my gosh, I'm surprised they can drink out of the fountain go to the bathroom. It's.

O

My understanding, I know commissioner kyler likes to say I've been here forever and that is not true and that pre that predates me, mr kyler, but it's sort of loosely my understanding.

O

Has always been that liberty was a school that the county as a whole in that moment,.

O

Chose to build to the exact level of state funding and, as a result, you get kind of a.

O

A weirdly, a weird architecture where you have sort of levels and tears and pie shaped classrooms.

O

And all of those sorts of things that adds to the functional score, part of it, the school's.

N

Classrooms are smaller than what we see at the other high schools and as mr o'neill just.

N

Indicated the just the shape of the classrooms.

N

Odd and it and it doesn't lend itself to higher class sizes, which is what we're most likely.

N

Going to see with implementing blueprint, especially in the southern region, right, you know this.

D

Is I'm sorry so I I know that in the past there's some discussion about whether or not.

D

The inc or the increase in enrollment was somehow predicated on pandemic rebound, but.

D

You guys are pretty confident at this point that this is no longer just a matter of populations.

D

School levels returning to normal, this is actual enrollment growth sustained through.

D

The next of so many I believe we have rebounded from the pandemic, and you know just to be.

O

Clear for anybody who might email- I don't literally mean that every kid who left on.

O

The pandemic has one by one, come back but sort of the numbers that readjusted back the.

O

Sustained growth beyond that seems to be consistent, post pandemic. You know averaging, I don't know.

O

Right or bill, or here maybe on average across a 10-year window, two to three hundred kids.

O

A year gotcha, so you get over the 745 uptick this past year and then you're looking at.

O

That kind of sustained growth, which is more than we've seen since you know since before.

O

The great recession, not the highest we've ever seen in time, but consistently more, where.

O

We've been in a long long time, and that would I think that was the early 2000s. I think, and.

D

There were a couple of schools built around that time. If I'm remembering correctly, there.

D

Were a lot of schools.

P

And then the financial crisis had, and things changed very dramatically.

J

I knew I mean I see reports as far as how long a house sits on the market. I mean in.

J

Carroll county: they are not that long. They go up for sale and within within a month, they're.

J

They're basically sold, so it's it's a lot of people moving in to the area and you know.

D

It's interesting that you bring that up too, because I know like one of the the jokes that.

D

I sometimes hear is carroll county is where people go to retire. That's obviously not the.

D

Case you have younger families that are moving in and I guess that helps to account for the.

D

Enrollment growth that we're going to be experiencing yep.

J

Another home outside of westminster and the individuals that bought our former house they're.

J

Getting ready to start a family and they moved here from cecil county. So we are having families.

J

Coming in that are starting out, you know buying the that the time during the 80s was the split.

J

Foyers and the ranchers you do have new families coming in buying those homes to start a family.

D

That's awesome: oh yeah I'd like to proudly say that people are moving into carroll county.

H

Because they like the way, we do things right here, we're doing something right, we're doing.

H

Something right- and I think that's a big part of it, but the other part- and I don't know.

E

um How you calculate all that in I know a lot of carroll county people that were born.

E

Here are married and they're having kids 10 years later than the last generations did.

E

They're starting to have kids at age, 30 and so that's a whole different number coming.

E

On yeah, I would say it has to be net positive, not mike now, so let me say this: you should.

O

Have a more intelligent person you should have mr kane or your own demographers. uh I'm.

O

None of those things but birth rates are factored in and then we use something called a cohort.

O

Survival method, so if more kids than expect to show up in second grade next year in that.

O

One year that's unexpected, but then that's caring forward so to see sustained, unexpected.

O

Growth and historically, that there's analyzes from the county staff back then that that's.

O

Been true that unexpected is generally positive net migration, so even if permits aren't being.

O

Issued at a historic level that would indicate to me loosely that has houses turn over more.

O

Than in the past decade, or so 15 years, people with kids are moving into those houses. Yeah.

A

And this is conversation we have with the realtors there's no inventory or very little.

A

Inventory they are selling homes much faster. In a month I mean especially down south. It's.

A

You know a week, you know I mean still a very hot market, but there's just no inventory.

A

You know, but there is growth, that's still happening and that's definitely a concern.

A

For everything we're talking, but um I think this leads us into the discussions that you.

A

All had and recommendations on moving forward with both the elementary school and the middle.

A

School down in the south, freedom elementary and sykesville middle, if you can walk us through.

A

You know not necessarily the entire package, you know can't get to the recommendation. You.

A

Know because I'm personally one who doesn't judge or counter the expert on their recommendation.

A

You know what right looks like. I think we need to understand what you believe right.

A

Looks like, along with the price tag and then ensure that the community understands that.

A

That's what we're looking at, so these solutions came out of the sarc with the southern area.

N

Redistricting committee, um a committee that got together that included parents and staff.

N

To look at look at overcrowding in the southern area and what would be the best remedy for.

N

That don do you want to walk us through some of the findings sure so in in your packet.

O

Just so you have it for future reference, or today you do have the two full feasibility.

O

Studies so when the sark presented his report, I think it was september of 22. They presented.

O

An array of possible options, some of those options, included the concept of of marrying.

O

Additions to buildings, along with some redistricting amounts and um and also even at that time,.

O

We were all sort of wondering what the blueprint might mean from a capital or staffing or a.

O

School-Sized lens, and so the board made the board of ed made the decision to commission.

O

These two feasibility studies, so you have them in full. um In essence, when you hire the.

O

Architects and engineers that they're hired to tell you whether or not you can put an.

O

Addition on a building and, if so, roughly what would it mean and roughly how much would would.

O

The budget estimate be, and each study came up with two options: a smaller option and a.

O

Larger option for each school um and after much discussion and deliberation at that work.

O

Session and beyond the board of ed chose to move forward in its educational facility plan.

O

So the sort of the needs analysis, the larger edition, which I believe is 10 classrooms and.

O

Then the other space for sykesville and a smaller classroom or a smaller edition for.

O

Freedom, which is a five classroom in other space edition, and that had largely to do with.

O

um Sort of the the site and what it comfortably would would permit at freedom. That's not you.

O

Know the greatest footprint of land to to further build on and at the same time, in the.

O

Master plan directs staff to continue to look at the rest of the picture. Okay, let's continue.

O

To understand what we need to do, with the blueprint and and from a capital lens, um let's.

O

See if there's another school that warrants an addition or not as part of this, but also.

O

What what if you do include the redistrict or the um editions and it's funded from a.

O

Capital side, what would a redistricting plan ultimately look like based on that, but our.

O

Numbers were growing and when I said you know, the south had southern area had been the issue.

O

More than the southern area was becoming a concern by the time the sark finished and.

O

With these newest projections, you, if you wanted to reform the committee, this is one of the.

O

Things we said to the board: it's no longer the sark, it's something more than that. If you want to reform the committee, the committee almost needs to take not of not really a from.

O

Scratch look, but you know a different look, um but but the board made the decision to.

O

Move these two addition options into its master plan, which means it could come to you as part.

O

Of the cip as one part of looking at this overall puzzle, I I hope, commissioner, that's.

O

What you wanted and not yeah, I think so I think um understanding and I you should have.

A

The slide somebody has control those slides, I'm not sure who yes or not. Those slides, though.

A

Sorry, you have the master plan. I don't have that so I didn't give that to crystal like.

O

This but it's yeah, if you so, if you want the overview they are in here um and you can you.

O

Can get some pretty quickly because you can see that right. So so it comes down at freedom.

A

Elementary and definitely correct me if I'm wrong five classroom edition, um which includes.

A

One pre-k classroom, 9035 square feet edition, including one work room, one resource room.

A

The girls and boys restrooms staff, restrooms mechanical custodial closets state rate capacity.

A

637, which includes 20 pre-k and then the estimate construction cost of 5 million. Two hundred.

A

Eighty eight thousand, sir, that is the option. The board moved forward. That's slide, 18. If.

O

You kind of hone in on the on the on the under the logo and then for the sykesville option.

O

That the board moved forward, it would be slide um 29. and that's a 10 classroom edition. Eight.

O

General classrooms, two science labs with prep two workrooms for research, source rooms, restrooms.

O

Staff and student restaurants, mechanical and custodial closets, art and health are the special.

O

Areas and storage for them included, 22, 310 square feet um and uh an ultimate estimate.

O

Budget estimate, construction estimate of 12.7, though, and yeah we'll ensure I mean these.

A

Slides are available, I know to the community because I've seen them highlighted in some.

A

People posting social media and stuff- I imagine they're on your side, we'll make sure that.

A

They're also available on ours. I just want to make sure that we're all on the same sheet.

A

Of music, you know across the table understanding these two slides, which are pretty critical.

A

As far as capital projects, but also the community, this is what we're looking at in the southern.

A

Part of the the county freedom elementary with a handful of classrooms, sykesville middle.

A

With 10 classroom additions, okay, and we can make the full feasibility studies available.

O

I think they may be, but I'll double check. We can make them available online as well.

O

And I said this at the work session and I just remembered I said this and we all took.

O

A tour at one time of the sites and mr kyler was on the board of ed and mr kyler pointed.

O

Out at freedom that he believed that, if there could be a an addition, it would be built in.

O

One location and that's where it turned out to be so there you go, it don't look, but I.

E

I have a question, and now you're not going to like me anymore. um 5 million seems too.

E

Cheap are these based on state square foot numbers? Is there? Do we lose anything because.

E

It's smaller or because of the how complicated that site is and did we think about stormwater.

E

Management and- and it sykesville doesn't seem so bad. This one just seems too cheap. I'm going.

E

To call the mr pro cop, our director of facilities, and I actually would like to agree earlier.

O

Ted said our capital project had been boring, but ray is anything before yes, oh my gosh.

E

And and I thought of this question just to get him to the mic and they're boring they're.

Q

Going well, we want them boring all right in terms of the the development of the the budget.

Q

Estimates the consultant goes through all that, and in this case we went as far as to.

Q

Get uh almost the schematic design, uh so we would include uh stormwater management and.

Q

And whatnot, so you know we feel pretty comfortable that that's these are. These are accurate.

Q

So so we went a little bit further this time than we would typically do for some. This sort.

Q

Of a feasibility study so we're pretty comfortable good. Then then that's a good issue. So three.

A

Walk away, um thoughts on capital projects, freedom, sykesville and liberty, really, the three things that we've.

A

Talked about liberty because of the timeline change as far as now being included since.

A

We're looking at 1980 forward right and then um read them in sykesville: okay, because again.

G

We don't want to lose sight of william winchester, because it's going to be right, there, yep yeah.

A

Okay, now these cost estimates, though these are- these- are full cost estimates right. This.

H

Doesn't take into account any state participation that we might be able to get correct, yeah.

Q

Right and do we think for any reason that I mean so our our state rate of capacity numbers.

H

And enrollment numbers are such that we'd get full state participation, or would it be.

H

A reduced state participation- I don't know about full, maybe more likely for freedom, but.

O

We do expect there would be some participation and then another thing to note. I thought about.

O

When ted was speaking that one one statutory change in the last couple years, that's good.

O

From the state is that they now participate in in the design which they historically did.

O

Not do so a little more as well, because a little more than historically as well, because.

O

Of that, to the extent they participate.

A

And then also mount airy elementary school there's also not, as close. You know, as far.

A

As challenges like liberty- but it's still, you know something to be aware of. Okay.

A

Yeah, um okay, are there any thoughts include because I want to just. I want to keep this moving.

A

You know kind of looking at the capital project understanding um I want to say dollars available.

A

As I think the wrong way of thinking it but dollars that, are there that ted described.

A

And where they're coming from, are there any additional thoughts from any of us questions.

A

Thoughts comments yeah among the different options that are presented in here. Are there certain options.

D

In here that you guys feel most comfortable with or that you would prefer to see based.

D

On, what's in here, for example, some of them have like a four classroom edition, a five classroom option.

D

A design classroom options so that that work session was on may 31st at the june board.

M

Meeting whatever the second wednesday was, the board then approved the master, the facilities.

O

Master plan and they moved forward the 10 classroom edition for sykesville or, what's.

O

uh Detail on slide 29 and the five classroom edition for freedom, which was slide 18. I think.

O

Commissioner, and and what's the critical time frame for this, obviously you want it as soon.

E

As possible, is there like a if the decision was made by september? That gives you a better.

E

Chance of state money- or you know who knows what inflation is going to happen. We you guys.

E

Were very aggressive and got east middle and career and tech started ahead of the bubble.

E

um Is there anything we need to think about for this, uh and and I'm only one one person.

E

And uh get put in my place often I I think we ought to try to get this rolling, so we.

O

Wouldn't it wouldn't even come to you as a funding request until october, for you to consider.

O

In this funding cycle, if, if you, if you moved it forward with design money, then we would.

O

Work on that, for would you say one year of design and two of construction or one of each.

O

Right at that, so so he's not mike, but he said three years. If you approve funding in this cycle and in some ways that that wasn't a in light of wanting to better wanting to more fully understand.

O

What the blueprint might mean for us in terms of staffing and class size and capital and.

O

Looking and having time to explore what else beyond these additions is required to sort.

O

Of solve the puzzle, that's that's not too, too, concerning to us as staff and also ray.

O

Doesn't have you know one thing I hate to do this. One thing we cut during the years.

O

Of cuts were project managers in his construction office, so we don't have sort of unlimited.

O

Human human capital to to build too many. You know too many things at once, but if both of.

E

These at the same time, would start in october and be completed in three years, miked or not,.

E

We're holding it to that. Yes,.

E

But, commissioner kyler's, what what concerns do you have of blueprint or liberty or anything.

E

Else that are we are we tying your hands on another project by letting this happen.

O

Is what for that part of the county? What what does the blueprint compliance with the fiscal.

O

Requirements mean for class, size, teacher and other staffing ratios. Those sorts of things.

O

But I I would add to that, I don't think we're we're a build, a school or renovate a school.

N

So that there can be class sizes of 45, yes, because that's regardless, regardless I'd hate,.

E

To see you do that, we would not make that decision. We have to fight blueprint, man absolutely.

A

So um ted, I don't want our selves to get too far in front of our skis or head over the.

A

Skis um but I do want us to move forward. You know, uh we've got almost a well yeah we've.

A

Got to be aggressive to getting what it looks like what right looks like and taking care.

A

Of the kids that, especially when their classes are becoming overcrowded and there's a lot.

A

Of frustration, I mean no matter what we say if the numbers are only this, it feels like.

A

A mountain, even if it's a little hill but to us it's a mountain to a whole lot of people.

A

And a whole lot of kids, and so I mean are we being too aggressive in our thoughts? What.

A

Are your and when did you bring this up four years ago, this yeah, oh, the the sork yeah? It.

A

Was like the first few meetings I had yeah yeah so four years ago this conversation started.

E

So right now we're not being aggressive or passive because we're we haven't really taken.

P

This up right and to commissioner kyler's question. I think one of the difficulties we.

P

Face is the horrible mismatch between the state timeline and our timeline, which is dictated.

P

To us we we have no choice in that, so when, when you say how do we get these two projects.

P

Rolling, uh as as john said, they haven't even requested them of us yet and and won't be.

P

For months and we're even further until the commissioners take up their next budget process,.

P

So really, if, if you want to actively change how they're thinking about moving ahead, I.

P

Think that would take the commissioners ahead of any budget discussions saying we're not.

P

There but we're promising when we get there. These projects are part of what we're going.

P

To adopt which is important, 9.09 percent income tax dollar- that whatever dollar amount you.

A

Were saying well right now, 37 million dollars that that is not a problem for you. If you.

P

Wanted to commit to these projects fiscally, we can do it. You know the question would be.

P

Are are you willing to commit yourself before you've taken on a budget process and you've.

E

Caused me to change my question: how quickly can this happen and we maximize the money.

E

We get from the state, I I don't think it could speed up with all due respect to ted, because.

O

We still have to follow the state process and they'll want to see your financial commitment.

O

Through your budget process, so it it'll be next. When you adopt your 25 plan would be.

O

When we could move forward with this, and that doesn't change to three years right- and I.

P

Agree with you, my point was just that you would be able to work differently. If you know.

P

The commissioners are on board, you think about it differently. I mean if this is common sense,.

A

If this is where we're expecting to go- and you know doubt, is being removed on all levels.

A

You know, I always say hope is not a course of action. You got to kind of look at the resources.

A

Time, people and money and we'd know we can allocate the money to doing this. Why look.

A

At the time and wait you know if it's the right thing to do. I mean I, I don't understand.

A

What would we be waiting for okay? Well, they they have to follow the state process and.

P

Part of the state process is going to be them, seeing that you've committed and you sitting.

P

Here today and saying yeah, we're on board isn't going to get them there they're going.

P

To say it's been adopted in a budget and when you say you know it's just common sense. Why.

P

Wouldn't you move it move ahead. I just wanna cautioned that even among everything that.

P

They could think about. I'm sure you could find internal thoughts that maybe that's not.

P

The highest priority, and certainly we've not had any discussions about that yet.

M

No, I I I I appreciate that and I'm not again trying to jump too fast and saying. Oh, I recommend.

A

This but I'm I'm trying to understand all the timelines associated with making these.

A

Decisions and what affects will occur when these decisions are made if they're made you.

A

Know soon late commitments from the state, you know um again the delegation, if they're.

A

Necessary to get them on board, you know going down to mako having a conversation with me.

A

But I mean I have I don't know that's so that's what I'm trying to kind of yes. If, if and and.

E

You know me I oversimplify and probably don't understand, so it's it's to lie and you're.

E

Saying this could be in black and white in october. You know, for us, it won't be black.

P

And white, until the end of may right, when you adopt it yeah yeah yeah, but it could be.

E

In a budget by uh how what no, how soon do we need to do something.

E

Do we need to have another meeting more specifically, or what do we need to do if you wanted to.

P

Do something that made money before money available before next july? We would have to.

P

Open up the budget that you just adopted, okay and amend that. But but you don't need that.

O

And honestly, probably don't want that, because if we don't follow the state process, then.

O

We're not exactly ensure that we maximize their participants. You just want a commitment.

P

You know john, it might be useful for the commissioners if you kind of hit some of the state process.

P

Milestones, I think, including you know, going all the way to the end of the general assembly.

P

Where the last decisions on funding are made, yes, you mean in terms of their funding timeline.

M

Right so when we submit a cip to you in october, it also goes to the state and it goes to the.

O

um Something called the I a um iac or the interagency commission on school construction.

O

Which, now as of this year, is an independent body, it used to be attached to the state department.

O

Of ed, they review all of the requests and they set up preliminary funding level estimate.

O

Of like 75 percent statewide and then and then what your portion would be as a county.

O

And um and then, as the general assembly deliberates through the state budget, capital budget process,.

O

Ultimately, you find out what your final full funding number would be for all of your projects.

O

In the cip, but along the way, there's forms and documents and feasibility studies and.

O

Analyzes that spreadsheets, that ray and bill have to complete to submit to them to say.

O

So, even if you fund a project fully, they have to approve that um believe it or not, and and.

O

And part of that process in that timeline is figuring out exactly what will be the maximum.

O

State participation which all of us are going to want at the end of the day and and as while.

O

I understand everything you're saying you know to try to jump start that process. I think.

O

Puts that I'm not sure what that would mean for state participation, so you guys need to.

E

Put it in black and white in your october, cip, so I guess the question is: what do you.

E

Need from us to be comfortable to do that, nothing, I think the board of ed made. You know.

O

This is a planning document and an easy assessment, but I think they've sort of begun to make.

O

That decision, when they may, when they made this there, their process has always moved.

P

Ahead of our process- and I think as john's trying to say, there's there's no way to really.

P

Change change that we, we could say whatever we want, approve whatever we want and they're.

P

Still subject to the whole state process, and even you know john said, even if we said we're.

P

Just going to pay for it, which we did with manchester valley, still had to go through.

P

The state process exactly like any other school. Yes, I I just uh don't want to see us be in.

E

A position where you comfortably move forward: you get state money, you get whatever and then.

E

We say ah now we change our mind. The place where we would be a problem is if they get.

P

State approval and then we don't approve exactly right.

E

And we can't really promise that. But we can say that's an intention, but it's hard how.

E

Do you promise that sign it in blood.

E

E

Knew you guys had an answer just to be clear. You know I well, I said you guys, could promise.

P

It I I am not oh, I know.

E

I mean, when you said early on in the meeting that we could promise that you threw my whole.

E

Day off, I thought oh, my gosh. What what's wrong? What's really good too about these is the.

J

Administrators gave their input regarding the additions as well. um You know they were.

J

At the meeting that we had, you know the work session regarding this, and you know both the.

J

Administration administrations like this is what they're comfortable with and what they.

J

Think would be good.

A

So repeat this one well and had a very good discussion on it. Next couple things is the.

A

uh Your priorities um working through the state and then also operating budget.

A

And I think um you start your closed at three. Is that correct? So in the next 20 minutes.

A

And it's on you, yes,.

N

I apologize okay, I mean as far as our legislative priorities, um we've already talked a bit about.

A

That we basically are going to be looking to collaborate with you on our delegation.

N

To look at extended timelines for exceptions for certain pieces of blueprint, things like.

N

That would would help us as a school system, to move forward a little bit more slowly. But.

N

I would like to turn your attention to the pressures on the operating budget and you have one sheet in your folder that looks like this.

N

And then you have a packet that says: board of education operating budget pressures, the.

A

The legislative prayers just please, um if you can sure we have them prior to us attending.

A

Mako, oh yes, which is middle of august. This way I can physically have it yeah and I think.

E

Yeah, the more we have for mako the better, and I think we need to look strongly at september.

E

I know what what we saw in annapolis, the people that got something to delegation people in.

E

November december they never caught up to because in january they hit the ground running.

E

And- and it's too late to say well, can I see more information? Can I do whatever so the.

E

Earlier we can do that, the better position we are process for I mean so that you have.

H

A timeline of three weeks: you need that information before mako. What is our process for kind of.

H

Firming up what our legislative priorities are, we we pretty much have them. We just need to sit down and write them up in language that we that we know will um will be that.

N

They'll be able to hand to somebody and they'll be able to you know, take to the floor. Read.

N

Understand, okay and august is still only a working group. It's a second working group.

A

But it's the second of like three or four as we shape our legislative priorities going.

A

Into annapolis the earlier the better right, but the the legislative priorities will be.

H

In at least enough detail that will be saying things like we need a waiver on the 75 compensatory.

H

Education requirement: we need a waiver on the 60 40 planning time. Okay, all right, yep.

N

um So the the first sheet that then I pointed out this is this is something that um is basically.

N

A glide path, or it's really not it, doesn't glide very well. If you look at the numbers.

C

So I hate to call it a glide path, but um it basically shows what we're looking at as far.

N

As budget costs due to blueprint requirements for fiscal 25 through 27.,.

O

Sure so so you have the the sheet that dr mccabe referred to, where you can see three.

O

Years at one time, side by side- and we wanted to sort of use this presentation to help- hopefully.

O

Help present it a little bit too and I promise I'll be as quick as possible. So we asked the.

O

Question on the agenda: what what are the pressures on our operating budget? I think the first.

O

Three bullets here are always have always been the pressures on our operating budget.

O

How much is inflation going to cost us? What can we do and, and can we accomplish an employee.

O

Compensation and for us that requires a mandatory collective bargaining with five five unions.

O

And what are the mandates, funded or unfunded? Coming from annapolis? Coming from the state.

O

Coming from wherever that that we have to face in every year or maybe historically might.

O

Have included sort of board priorities? What what are the things we'd like to do if we.

O

Could and and can we secure the funding to do that and then the blueprint's certainly.

O

A mandate, but it's it's kind of its own thing as a mandate. It's it's a mandate in a lot.

O

Of different ways, there are new initiatives and we've talked about some of those over.

O

Time mandatory full day, pre-k a lot of things with college and career ready, particularly.

O

With the workforce, development and the community college and advanced placement and the career.

O

And tech center or career and tech programs, we've referred to the the teacher time requirements.

O

Generally, the 60 40 time split the career ladder as a whole. Sixty thousand dollars is.

O

A starting salary two-year two years. Those are all things I would call sort of like new.

O

Requirements or new initiative, then there's the fiscal compliance reallocations. That's.

O

What the superintendents invested so much time with the community at the at the town.

O

Halls and otherwise sort of talking about how I've come to think of the blueprint as.

O

Sort of a retro active law, you know, usually a law gets passed and it has an october one.

O

Date and on october 1, you begin to do what the law says you do, and in this case you know.

O

The blueprint became a law and we and on a certain date, but really what it requires us.

O

To do all of us at school systems is to take a look at our existing, always operating school.

O

System and reshape it based on the buckets of funding and that's what the superintendents.

O

Spent so much time on particularly the compensatory education piece, but I'll talk about an example.

O

Or two more as well in a second, then there's sort of these indirect pressures they're not.

O

Written into the blueprint law but they're coming regardless wage compression, you can't.

O

Raise your teacher's salary scale and not raise your administrator salary scale and.

O

Send some others along the way. Many of the staffing needs that we spent some time on.

O

Earlier and then capital pressures as well not really in the operating budget, but.

O

You know pre-k we kind of under. I think we all generally kind of understand, there's a.

O

Lot of career and technical education requirements in the blueprint we haven't yet talked a lot.

O

About that will require space somewhere and I'm not necessarily saying you're going to.

O

Have to build another career in tech center, but it's going to require space somewhere.

O

Teacher time where, where does everyone work, if suddenly, you have to hire 120 125 more.

O

Teachers to to meet the teacher time requirements so there's there's those different um different.

O

Parts of this and then the next couple of slides break this chart into thirds. So so.

O

This is fiscal uh 25 and there's a lot of assumptions built in here. We tried to note.

O

Them on the handout and and also at the bottom of each of these slides, um but just generally.

O

You know, inflation is always there, you have it, we have it everyone's household. Has it.

O

And so on, our budget we'd estimate somewhere around five million dollars in in fiscal 25.

O

For things like pension insurances, those fuel utilities, those kinds of costs um in the in.

O

The realm of employee compensation, we have to implement a career ladder through collective.

O

Bargaining by next year- and that also comes with a cost, so this creates a tiered structure.

O

Of of teachers and administrators in multiple roles, so of teacher leadership, tracks and.

O

Administrator leadership tracks from the beginning of your career on up- and you know the board.

O

And the superintendent asked for a long time to try to come up with an estimate for that.

O

I went back to the career, commission or kerwin commission report. There's a lot on the career.

O

Ladder in there obviously there's sort of a graphic where, however, they came up with.

O

It so again a lot of assumptions here, but, however, they came up with it. The kerwin commission.

O

Estimated percentages of your teaching workforce and where they would ultimately be placed.

O

On the career ladder and then the blueprint legislates salary add-ons for those placements.

O

On the career ladder, so I took the size of our workforce, those percentages and the mandated.

O

Add-Ons which again subject to collective bargaining, which is what does the law say,.

O

The add-on should be and came up with sort of a 4.5 million dollar cost to adjust our.

O

Workforce onto the career ladder as the kerwin commission envisioned it and then there's.

O

The 60, a thousand dollar starting teacher salary- we know that we need to be there in.

O

Two in two years by law, with the ratified agreement being put into effect this july.

O

One with with your funding support that leaves us a little over 15 percent from having our.

O

Starting teacher salary be sixty thousand dollars and so the 13 million you're, seeing.

O

Here the assumption is, this is sort of like if, if the blueprint could go off as seamlessly.

O

As possible, this takes the entire scale and moves it by that percentage, and this is half.

O

Of that cost, so if, in two years the scale has to move 15.4 percent, this is year, one.

O

Of making that happen, um but the line item for administrators is to try to try to keep.

O

That integrity of our overall structure, so that a teacher can still want to become an.

O

Assistant principal and then a principal over time, and not make so much that you would you.

O

Would never that no one would ever leave the classroom, and then we have three other unions.

O

That aren't really at all part of the blueprint that we still have to be mindful of and work.

O

With through collective bargaining and we're very successful this past year and securing.

O

Some agreements with them college and career, ready, there's way more than just this, but.

O

Just trying to hit the biggest costs, we have the um 1.6 million dollars that were in the.

O

Fy 24 budget for the partnership, the mou with uh uh heather powell and her team at workforce.

O

Development that also increases every year based on inflation, then based on the change.

O

In the number of students, so that twenty thousand dollars is sort of building from that 1.6.

O

Million in 24 dual enrollment, we're sort of you know at the mercy of the colleges, tuition.

O

Costs and fees which you know, I'm not even sure, the process that they use to change them.

O

But this number has more to do with the anticipating participation of our students. So I'm not trying.

O

To assume anything in terms of tuition or costs, just we're seeing the number of students.

O

Go up um as as these opportunities become more aware and for advanced placement, we have.

O

To cover the full cost of that for the students who choose that college and career pathway.

O

And that that has to do a lot with the cost of the test and or the training necessary.

O

Or the the cost necessary to have our staff be able to administer the tests. Pre-K expansion.

O

Will continue pending capital funding and other things for forever under the for the.

O

10-Year window of the blueprint, so these are costs just to keep adding full day classrooms.

O

To comply with the 50 percent that we know under the blueprint blueprint the slots for.

O

Kids, the 50 that we know we're required to um to apply so this isn't the capital cost.

O

And this isn't what if there aren't enough private providers in the state, ultimately.

O

Says you're responsible for a hundred percent. This is just progressing towards what we know.

O

The blueprint says for us uh teacher time we have requested in this year's. Well, we had.

O

Hoped in this year's budget to begin the process of phasing in the and mr whistler's right.

O

Our estimate is somewhere around 120 125 teachers to get to the place where the workforce could.

O

Balance to the time requirement we weren't able to fund the first 15, so in 25 we'll be.

O

We'll be trying to budget for 30 because we were trying to budget 15 additional fte per.

O

Year over eight years to meet the full phase-in requirement there. So uh because we didn't.

O

We weren't able to do the 15 this year. You see 30 in 25, you'll, see 15 and 26 and 27 when.

O

During the pandemic, with the with the situations we were seeing with changes in population.

O

And that sort of thing uh the board of ed, used a very small push of assessor funding.

O

For some class size reduction positions, those are being funded again with us, or this year.

O

That money will go away after after fiscal 24 when I say this year and so the whole the.

O

Whole analysis is predicated upon those people still being with us, so the the 15 per year.

O

To get to teacher time assumes that these positions that have been funded with federal.

O

Money will also be in the mix, so the board has to figure out how to fund them with operating.

O

Budget money beginning in 25, so that's what that 2.5 million dollars reflects and then.

O

The cost to reduce or mitigate the physical- these are the kinds of things that the dr.

O

Mccabe's been been doing so well in the in the town halls talking about she spent so.

O

Much time focused on compensatory ad, because that is the that is the big number that is.

O

The the big challenge, that is, what will drive the changes in staffing and other resources.

O

From one school to another and potential class sizes, there's three other areas: program areas.

O

Under the blueprint where we also believe we are not technically yet in fiscal compliance.

O

Which we need to be in by um by 25 and they're listed here: esau transitional, supplemental.

O

Instruction and and pre-k those comparatively to compensatory that are so small. We haven't.

O

Spent we've focused on that example we're aware of these they're they're, not as unmanageable.

O

um Obviously, as the as the compensatory ad and when we talk about staffing and then mr.

O

Shockney would want me to say this. Another thing that happens is you know the state in.

O

The sort of the restricted nature of the blueprint came up with 11. some million dollars of new.

O

Compensatory ed money this year and we made the strong case in the decision- the board.

O

Made a decision to spend that compensatory, add money where we know they're going to say.

O

We have to spend it because I can't go. I don't know how to go back a slide, because if we.

O

Didn't that 37 million on the prior slide would be 48., but in essence, what we're doing.

O

Is hiring our own people for those additional roles that that money is used for and therefore.

O

Hoping we can backfill all of the positions they left to take those roles in time for.

O

The school year, that's sort of that staffing churning that we've been talking about scott.

E

Before you go to another page, a couple questions one, the the 75 million, that's additional funds.

E

You need from the state and the county correct and your guess is from the state so miss caller.

O

I would say from the state and the foundation because if it's not in the foundation, it's.

O

Otherwise, restricted anyway so, and we have a last slide, but our best guess is going to.

O

Be 12 million okay. um So if you have seven in your plan and and anticipated 12 in the.

O

Foundation from the state that would drop the 75, the gap was close to like 56 million.

O

So they're saying it gets much easier, so assuming so assuming it's totally impossible for us.

E

To fund that, yes, it ain't going to happen. If you get every waiver, you deserve you desire.

E

And with no impact negatively to students, what could you reduce this to.

O

Yeah, you could take off that bottom section pretty quickly and that's about that. 60 40.

K

To kill us yeah 64 to coaching yeah, yeah that that that too, but that bottom, those bottom.

O

Four lines are that last subsection. That's why I started to think of this as a retroactive.

O

Law because you're making us go back and redo our prior school system. But if you passed.

O

Along you've been successful with what you've done, there's that, but if the law were as you.

O

Go forward we're going to give you these buckets of money to use for these specific purposes.

O

Most of us wouldn't argue that those are many of those are very good purposes. We would gladly.

O

Do that we never had the buckets of money to spend there in the first place. That's you.

O

Know whether it's a phase-in or whether it's a waiver or whether it's just make it prospective.

O

Rather than retroactive that that would change a lot of things. Thank you. um So I spent the.

O

Time on 25 kind of highlighting what those items were, so I'm not going to repeat all.

O

Of them 120, um 6 and 27, but you could see once you get over some of the initial lift.

O

And it it goes down from there, but again a lot of assumptions here and also not not picture.

O

Would be if, if we have to do that, 37 million dollar realignment, you know what the what.

O

Pressure does that lead to in the out years, as people begin to want things. We also wanted.

O

To take a minute to do a different example, besides combed, besides not having enough money.

O

To do salary do other things and because the blueprint can sort of get you on both ends.

O

And when you say well, why are some of these other counties that you might not think would.

O

Be similar to us saying the same things now. This is an example. um Why, and I think this.

O

Would be true for 24 out of 24, le or local school systems in maryland, special education.

O

There's your state and local requirement under the blueprint totaling 26 million dollars.

O

We already plan to spend 51 million dollars on special ed next year and that's where we've.

O

Been that's, I mean special. It goes up every year, but that's not new or surprising to any.

O

Of us and mr shockney would be the first one to tell you, we don't believe, we've been providing.

O

The services we'd love to provide with that 51 million dollars. We we wished, it could have.

O

Been a lot more, but that's 25 million beyond what the blueprint mathematically requires.

O

You and the state to contribute to special ed. So what does that mean from everything.

O

We can gather the state's interpretation. Is that in an example like this or anything else,.

O

For that matter, you would just use the money in the foundation program to pay for everything.

O

Else, that's that's the unrestricted. If you want or the you know, the freest most flexible.

O

Part of the blueprint formula, so let's look at the let's look at the foundation and I.

O

Think this would be kind of good fodder for the delegation discussion. So what is the foundation.

O

The foundation is the base per pupil, it's the it's. The base targeted for pupil amount.

O

Times the number of kids you have and again the state believes this pays for anything.

O

Needed in a program area beyond the shares and anything else, you need to operate carroll.

O

County public schools, so that would be things like that special ed example: pupil, transportation.

O

That the state only contributes about half of what we actually spend on pupil transportation.

O

Certainly, some employee compensation is flowing through the the buckets of the blueprint, but.

O

Not all of it so there's you know, there's a lot of money that needs to be spent there.

O

um Are fixed charges that would be employee benefits pension? You know the local share.

O

Of pension insurances that sort of thing facilities, maintenance and operations- that's not part.

O

Of the blueprint technology security and then you know back to inflation. Basically, everything.

O

Else that runs the school system. That money is all being spent already somewhere, and I.

O

Guess you could argue, is it being spent, you know correctly or not, but I don't. I don't.

O

Never see that argument get too far so there. I guess the point we're trying to make here.

O

Is when you hear the state say? Well, all the other money you need is in the foundation.

O

There is no other money in the foundation, that's available for the board of education.

O

To say, oh we'll just move this over there to cover that requirement and just to give.

O

You some sense special ed on that on the on the sub bullets: 25 million pupil transportation.

O

16 million not coming from the state coming from you, our total payroll 240 million. Now.

O

Again, some of that's coming through the buckets, but not most of it all the fixed charges, including.

O

Our retirees, 91 million all the facilities operations and maintenance, 38 million technology.

O

10.5 million security, 2 million. There is no free money to shift around. That's why the.

O

Superintendent is out in public saying. The only thing I can do is move the resources.

O

I already have including my staff, or cut something we're back to that decade. If that's the case.

M

Those are for those are the board of ed's options only as the clarification question.

H

So, do you think that that's so understanding that that's the situation, there's no other.

H

Flexible money to fund the rest of the school system, do you think that's a function of how.

H

Our school system has developed over time given financial constraints, or is it more.

H

A flaw in the logic of how blueprint was constructed, I think I think, or both I think it's a little.

O

Bit of both, I think people did not understand how restricted the blueprint was going to.

O

Be and now they do and I'd love to take credit for the first thing, but it's really dr mccabe.

O

Who said it first and most often, but we're all in it? Maybe you want to say it now, city.

O

We're also in a different place than most other school systems because of the reductions.

O

Of that prior 10 or 15 year period, there aren't any other instructional specialists in central.

O

Office that mr schofny can move into the school so that he doesn't have to move that teacher.

O

From that high school in the southern area, there aren't any other. You know we cut 300.

O

I forgot what it was: 300 300 plus positions, 229 of them in schools, not all teachers, there's.

O

Not the flexibility left over to make that happen, and I don't think other other counties.

O

Have uh you know quite that some do like garrett's, does so they're in the same place? Maybe worse.

O

um But other places haven't been there, so they do have a little bit more flexibility.

O

But at the end of the day it all comes down to local funding. Whether anyone wants to say.

O

That or admit that at the state, or not like my final bullet, not printed on this slide.

O

Would be if you want to know where the pressure is on the board of that operating budget? It's.

O

In this room, that's where it ultimately is, and then, mr kyler, that your question earlier.

O

Those last three bullets hopefully get to it. You know if you look at the chart as a.

O

Handout you've got about 7 million in your plan for the next three years. We'd anticipate.

O

Somewhere around 12 million in the foundation from the state, so that's the money. That's.

O

Sort of free to use so that reduces your 75 in the subsequent numbers to 56, 10 and 8..

O

So in in three years it gets pretty easy, yes, but, but and and the piggyback your question.

E

When you see and and I guess this is all true- you see garrett county closing middle schools.

E

My gosh, that's against everything you guys have ever stood for. You see kent county. I.

E

Think suffering way worse than us. How do we get anybody to listen to us? I think we're.

E

Like always we're in the middle someplace we're not the worst, we we definitely don't.

E

Have enough money, but two things: curiously, those two school systems you mentioned are.

O

Two school systems who have long been losing enrollment. Now we went through that company.

O

I don't know that they ever are so so they bear that burden too, um and it's dire um and.

O

They certainly don't have the fluff to move around either and I don't mean other other.

O

Counties don't have fluff, they have what we wish. We had in terms of additional resources.

O

But that's why you see the superintendent south of us in howard, saying I've got to make.

O

Some changes to my system now because my executive and council can't fund um right fund my my.

O

Needs- and I like that special ed example was intended to explain how suddenly some counties.

O

You might not have thought are like carol are, showing up sort of saying similar things.

O

You hear from yeah, I don't want to single too many out because I hear it from and I.

O

Know cindy does from all of our peers, so we don't all have the exact same challenge or.

O

Problem, or you know like for us combat, is the biggest issue for others that may not.

O

Be but everybody has that challenge to fund this and the dawning realization that the.

O

Only way to do it is is locally and can even the bluest counties do that and it's looking.

O

Like you know not as nice, not sure as it might have once been, so I think if you get relief.

O

It's probably because in their own way, most counties most ports of that in their counties.

O

Are seeing okay wait a minute? This is not exactly panning out to be how we expected.

O

It to be, you know, and I'm doing it locally. If you look at the numbers at the bottom, there.

P

74 million dollars now I'm not suggesting that this is the path just trying to give.

P

Context to how big that is, uh everything else being equal, we would need a 34 cent property.

P

Tax increase to be able to provide that much new funding.

N

All work with our local funding authorities and our delegations, the more we might be able.

N

To get done in the general assembly, the problem of this is all going to be timing. um You know.

N

They don't go back until january and we have to start building a budget now and um so by.

N

The time we know how much, how much funding we're going to get from the state and then.

N

Local we're already in the midst of having to make those tough decisions about which.

N

Staff we're going to have to move from which schools to which other schools how big the class sizes are going to be in certain schools. We're going to be knee-deep in that by the.

N

Time we have clear, concise answers and, as we do, that, um having planning assumptions.

A

By us, working together and also us, have we, as we've, committed to looking at our priorities.

A

For our community for our county, um whether it comes to expenses and or revenue in order.

A

To meet those numbers because, like now, you said this is going to be an incredible challenge.

A

Last budget was an incredible challenge and this is just more daunting because some of.

A

The things weren't answered last time and now they're in our interface, so the more planning.

A

Assumptions we can provide for you, the better you're going to be, but that's going to be.

A

You know a commitment on us to doing what we're doing um and uh even the ones that sent.

E

Out emails and pushed we have to help the school system. We think you should raise taxes.

E

They had no idea the magnitude and they're not going to say okay to that I mean it just.

E

Even the slim ones that we're pushing to to do raise taxes, not not that magnitude, because.

A

Everyone at your town hall was saying the exact same thing: I'd either pull them out.

A

To the side- and you see raise tax- do this do this? Of course, it's because the most precious.

A

Commodity, the most precious is their child and they want the best which they deserve.

A

um You know what what decisions are parents going to make when, when they see a class size.

N

Of 40-some students for their child, um you know, will they will they continue to have.

N

Their student attend carroll, county public schools, will they pull them and put them in a private school environment or a homeschool situation? I don't know and then and then how.

N

Does that affect our enrollment moving forward? It could change everything that we've just.

N

Laid out as to what we expect for the future and couple that decision with the other two-thirds.

A

Three quarters of the community that don't do not have the child in the schools and are.

A

They committing themselves to those children in our schools. So it's it's understanding.

A

Both sides- and um I you know- we've we've gone down the road. Having these conversations, this.

A

Could take another few hours in doing that? We're not going to do that right now, um but.

A

It's something that we definitely have to work towards and that's continuing work together.

A

Give you the planning assumptions needed us continue to work. Our priorities. um Is there.

A

Unprecedented any closing comments for you or work together and we're late for our next.

F

Three o'clock [laughter], I thank you all because and then we need to work on dates.

D

Absolutely dates and letters, a motion to adjourn so move.