Carroll County, MD Board of County Commissioners Open Sessions, 12 Jan 2023

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From YouTube: Board of County Commissioners Open Session January 12, 2023

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https://www.carrollcountymd.gov

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It is 9 20 on january 12th, incredible middle of january, already 2023.. I'm commissioner ed.

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Rothstein and um got a pretty lengthy agenda to go through um this morning without further.

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Ado, why don't we start with the pledge of allegiance in a moment of silence.

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The united states of america and to the republic, for which.

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It stands one nation, under god, indivisions.

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I think the first thing we need to do is recognize a wonderful audience. We have out in front of us.

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And those on tv land, but also uh miss stella. I guess it is a miz and not a miss or mrs uh from.

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Our wonderful boys and girls club that is over watching our lawyer, if he ever gets here, but he.

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Will I'm sure- and I still think, there's eyes on all of us- she has that da vinci, mona lisa look.

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Where you never know where she's looking so, uh but um she is a symbol of our boys and girls club.

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Here in westminster, that does phenomenal work in our community and commissioner, gordon just.

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Leaving the board right correct, that is correct. My uh two terms were up and uh has been a part of.

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This community, uh with the boys and girls club, so I applaud uh your work with them and all the work.

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That the boys and girls club does for our community.

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um Here in carroll, county, um okay, let's start with uh priority carol. You kind of scared me.

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Over there, mr vigliotti so I'll start with mr gordon good morning. Well as commissioner.

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Rosting already said we can address the elephant or, should I say, giraffe in the room this morning.

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um Obviously, we'd like to welcome stella from boys and girls club of westminster, she's.

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Touring both carroll county, both businesses, as well as other organizations she's, been to the.

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Carroll community college, the city of westminster, as well, and numerous businesses to date, part of.

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This was just something to allow the children of the club to interact on social media and.

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See where stella is going, what she's interacting with and who she's meeting with um it might have.

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Already been mentioned, but she's already had her hr orientation and has her own county id badge.

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um But moving on from that topic, I needed to mention the passing of a friend to many of us.

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In this county, who left a significant mark on our community, that would be agricultural leader.

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And friend, bob jones, who passed away on tuesday december 27th at the age of 93. bob, was a pillar.

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And preserver of the agricultural community, whose legacy will not be forgotten, he graduated.

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From highland high school and then he attended the university of maryland, we received a bachelor's of.

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Science and a master's degree uh he also served in the u.s air force. During the korean war, bob became.

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The carroll county agriculture extension agent in 1957, serving at that role until he retired in.

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1984. during his time as county agent, he worked primarily with farmers and youth in 4-h as a.

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Community leader, he served on the carroll county board, such as planning, commission and economic.

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Development, commission and 67 bob established the agricultural business club which meets.

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Monthly to this day, he helped us establish the carroll county farm museum, the farmers market.

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And helped with the planning of camp oshawa was a distinguished service award winner and.

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Past president of the maryland association of county agricultural agents past president of the.

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National association of county agriculture agents and was inducted into the hall of fame in 2009.

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He was also past president of the kiwanis club of westminster and named a hixson fellow in 2002. bob.

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Was a self selfless advocate for the preservation of ag in our community? He was also active with the.

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Agricultural center, the maryland farm bureau and the maryland dairy herd improvement association.

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But one of his many accomplishments was to raise four hundred and thirty thousand dollars to move.

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And restore the hoff log barn, which resides at our carroll county farm museum. uh We will miss.

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Bob's generosity and deeply acknowledge all his uh involvement in our community.

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Thank you. I I appreciate if you haven't been out there to see that barn at hot.

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Bar it's it's awesome, you know uh and just like everything I think we do in carroll, county and.

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How well we do is because of the community like bob and those that serve with him.

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um Pretty I appreciate that he meant a lot uh commissioner kyler, what's in your mind,.

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um Thank you everyone. I I'll try to keep it brief. We do have a a decent agenda today,.

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um But a couple things I want to mention: we did have mako's winter conference and, like a.

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Couple of us my first experience, but they are a great group. It was great networking.

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There and and uh it's you- you learn a lot from it and and it's really good and uh and I want.

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To thank the chamber of commerce for the state of the county on monday and the.

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The day with leadership carol and what they do with leadership carol, and so many other things.

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um Again, like I say we and we met, we did our joint meeting with the board of ed. I think a.

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Very positive meeting and a positive discussion: I've met with a couple of different committees.

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And some some directors and some staff and uh I'm learning- and uh hopefully I can do that quickly-.

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But I really appreciate um the people I've met and the people I've talked to. Thank you. No, I I.

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Appreciate before uh commissioner vigliotti, mr burke, we all gave reference to a miss stella, so.

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Either a handshake, a hug, a song, a poem you, you know: okay, just showing the love, okay and respect.

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That stella deserves uh mr bigliotti. uh Thank you, commissioner. I will truncate my remarks.

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This morning, in the interest of the lengthy agenda that we have so very briefly, uh last week I spent.

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Some time with our awesome sheriff jim deweese touring the buildings that he oversees touring.

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The the jail and I was incredibly impressed by the proficiency and the professionalism of the men and.

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Women who operate that place and the men and the women who serve under him, I had the privilege of.

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Attending the swearing-in of our new state's attorney haven shoemaker, I know he is a good.

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Guy he's committed to law and order, and that's the kind of thing that our county depends on for our.

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Quality of life- and I know that we're all looking forward to working with him in the coming years.

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um Skipping ahead a little bit because you know there are some things that have already been.

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Touched on, I just wanted to make mention last here that a one of our previous city council.

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Members in taneytown carl eva passed away over the weekend. He was an old school guy in every.

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In all the best ways he was an army veteran, he had incredible common sense wisdom and he was a.

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Good friend, he was always supportive always ready to lend a helping hand if something was needed. He.

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Served on the city council for years and in 2016, when I was still a member of the council, we had.

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A vacancy after one of the other council members, retired and and we asked carl to to come back and.

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And the way that I kind of looked at it was he was this, you know, retired, general or retired statesman.

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Retired soldier who was coming out one last time to to fill in a gap and even with filling.

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Out the rest of that term, he made a tremendous difference in the town I'll be attending his.

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Viewing this afternoon- and uh you know, I served- certainly pray for his family and and glad that.

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He is now in heaven and uh commissioner, that's it for me this morning. Thank you, okay, thank you.

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um Let commissioner karen get settled uh for priority care for me just a couple of things.

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Carroll county continues to lead the way in our unemployment statistics, where 2.7.

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Percent, where the state is at 3.7, so um our workforce development, our community college,.

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Exploration, commons ccps, it's not one or the other, it's all together that you know.

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Puts forward the success of this unemployment statistics, the backbone of our community has.

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Often said is um small business and small business development. I always believe in getting things.

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Done for free, so the small business administration has counselors underneath, what's called the sbdc.

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Small business development corporation: we have that representation here in carroll, county and.

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To date, no, not today they have valued loans and equity financing.

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Of over 4.5 million dollars to small businesses, um they've supported almost 200 jobs here in carroll.

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County councils over 80- in this I apologize- this is fy 23, 22., um 83 clients and 48 new clients.

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um Sometimes people feel like they're hard to find any times anytime. Somebody feels like something's.

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Hard to find reach out to one of us and we will navigate you to the right place. I guarantee it.

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You know this is not a part-time job. This is a full-time commitment and that's the way I believe.

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Me and all my colleagues see this uh and that full-time commitment was really shown this past.

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Week with maryland association counties, um I will continue uh to participate with commissioner kyler.

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Starting on wednesdays during legislative session and the county will be continue to be represented.

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As I was selected to be on the board of directors for mako, the state of the county, as I shared.

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The excitement to me is looking at what's on the diets today. Is the diversity from backgrounds from.

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Ages from lots of different, um you know ways we look at look at things and- uh and I really enjoy.

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That and I'm really looking forward to 2023 uh being a strong prosperous year. The last thing it's.

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Going to be tough, it may be long and prosperous, but it's gonna be a tough year and the board of.

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Education joint meeting yesterday highlighted just that we were very professional. We were.

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Very candid, but we were also very upfront saying we got a long ways to go and um you.

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Know our participation in the board of education meetings, along with the joint meetings along with.

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The outreach that are formal and informal will get us. You know where we need to go, but we we.

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Have some we have a lot of work to do in getting there um really appreciate the superintendent.

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Cindy mccabe, along with the board of education being being there yesterday,.

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For the joint meeting they are committed uh for our community and, most importantly,.

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For our children so uh really appreciate the time spent uh with them. Yesterday afternoon,.

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Okay, uh commissioner, karen, what's in your mind, uh yeah, thank you uh I'll, be brief. I'm sure it.

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Was probably already mentioned, uh what we had our state of the county on tuesday and then we.

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Met with leadership carol uh during the day and had a q a session. I want to thank the chamber.

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Of commerce for that, uh but what struck me about the leadership carol, interaction for lunch in the.

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Q, a was just how intently people were listening, uh I mean they're being polite, but they're also.

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Listening, they want to hear what we have to say: a relatively new board a new year, a lot of decisions.

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To make, I think, I'm encouraged that we're moving forward and bright-eyed and optimistic and also.

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Willing to take a look at some of the previous decisions from other commissioner boards. That.

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Were made at the time they were made, it's it's the way it is, but everything can be looked at.

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Everything can be reviewed, I'm encouraged by that uh you know the commissioners were elected to lead.

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If we don't make these types of decisions, somebody's going to make them for us, so.

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um Just encouraged by that all that day in general, but just really struck by how intently people were.

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Interested in what's going on in the county- and that was encouraging for me because that's that's.

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Really what I want to see so that was it, that's really it. Thank you. I appreciate, and you actually.

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Said it very well that the rubber meets the road at local government and every vote counts and and.

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That's you know. We heard that from senator carr didn't forget all about that. We met with him on.

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Monday uh for an hour- and he gave us his uh full attention for an hour and one of the commitments.

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He said that he'll continue to work with us, but the facts are where the rubber meets the.

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Road, like you said, commissioner gering, is at local government and he highlighted as well so.

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um Appreciate it: okay, now, let's get right into our open session. Our first item is.

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An updated recommended update to the veterans advisory council bylaws, miss deckle. I think you're.

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Coming up here with miss gina, mr bill nash and the one who actually runs everything miss lawrence.

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All right good morning, commissioners, good morning I am joined this morning with gina valentine.

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Our bureau chief of aging disabilities, roberta lawrence, we who goes by bobby she is our aging.

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And disability services supervisor and then bill nash, who is the chair of our veterans, advisory.

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Council this morning, we're before you seeking approval to update for a recommended update to.

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Our veterans advisory council bylaws, each of you have been provided a copy of the current.

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Bylaws as they are written and executed in your board packet for your reference, I'm going to.

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Turn it over to gina to walk us through what the recommended update to the bylaws includes.

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um Good morning so on december 20th at the veterans advisory council meeting, there was a.

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Discussion about the bylaws and, in particular article 5 regarding membership, number 13.

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um Council members may not serve as board as a board member of the veterans, independence.

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Project otherwise known as the vip and during that meeting the council voted and approved a.

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Recommendation to the commissioners to remove that article from the veterans advisory council, bylaws.

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Was there a reason why that was there in the first place.

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One of the I believe the true reason was um we haven't updated the bylaws since the veterans.

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Independence project has been up and running and initially the veterans, independence project.

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Was a recommended initiative under the initial veterans advisory council group? So in order to.

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Not muddy the waters, while that separation and the veterans independence project was becoming.

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Its own entity and to keep the two committees, if you would separate this, was developed and.

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Recommended by everyone that was working on both sides of those projects to make sure that it was a.

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Streamlined process, and- and it is true and timely to to make this update okay, so it was recommended.

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Time by everybody involved after moving forward, it's now, you know time to move forward. Mr nash,.

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Do you have any comments on this? Well, the board voted to approve that. I personally think that we.

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Should keep them independent of each other? um I'm only one vote, but it has been approved and I think.

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That's the way we go. Okay, bobby any comments. I agree. It seems like it's antiquated in the.

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In the bylaw, so I'm okay, with it being removed as well yeah, and for me you know getting the guidance.

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Nobody knows carroll county, but in carroll county and that's why we have these councils.

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And boards, you know so taking the guidance from the majority of these boards means a.

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Lot, you know as opposed to us up here saying we will do it this way or not so.

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um I'll move the board of county commissioners approve. If I could, let me just make a motion and.

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Then we'll go from there, it's a second and then discussion uh move the board of county.

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Commissioners approve the revision to the veterans advisory council bylaws. Second, okay: I got a motion.

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I got a second now open for discussion. I have a couple questions regarding this um number. One.

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Have we ever historically to your knowledge, done this with any other organizations or individuals.

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In the past I know we've. Obviously this discussion was that it was collaboratively done between those.

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Two parties, but do we do this in any other variety of our councils or boards, because.

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You know we deal with a wide birth of people, as we all know whether it be veterans whether.

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It be children, service groups, whether it be any type of entity if we ever done this in the past,.

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To my knowledge- and I don't have the comprehensive knowledge of everything I've been with the county.

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For 11 years, but I I don't- I don't recall that we had, but I think in this scenario I also don't.

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Know from a commissioner developed advisory council that we've ever had a split within.

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Them developing a non-profit. So I'm not sure if this was kind of a very one-off kind of specific.

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Process so I I don't know of any other process where we've identified something in a specific.

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In a bylaw, though, okay, it just kind of raises some concerns for me, because we as a county.

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Have always been very interactive, be it government, be it private industry, be it non-profits or just.

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Average individuals that want to volunteer- and I find it very troubling that this occurred little.

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To anybody, it's not specifically this group, it's about anybody um and what what really troubles me.

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Is we have a wide berth of non-profits in this community? We have people that are starting them.

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On a daily basis, I have people calling me up that want to meet and they have they have a desire to.

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Serve and help the community, and what concerns me heavily is that does this ever occur again.

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Which one I would hope it does not. I'd also like to point out, though, and this does dovetail into.

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This conversation that I spent about 20 hours, going through the bylaws and commissions of all.

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These groups over the past month or two actually long actually before we actually got seated and.

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This isn't proposed strictly to you all, but we have some very interesting uh conflicts.

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And inconsistencies within all of our bylaws for all of these groups. There are things that, in one.

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We will make a statement that it falls under the commissioner's purview and another. It does not.

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um My question this morning, while I think we do need to clean this matter up and remove this.

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I would like to see us seriously. Consider not only include that, but I think we need to look.

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At doing a 60-day review of all our boards, all our commissions have our staff look at these and.

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Go from there we're doing that already um yeah! You mentioned that some time ago we're putting.

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Together, information on all the boards and commissions for the commissioners to review.

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And with staff etc, so yes yeah so being a part of the veterans advisory council for quite some time.

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I mean I was asked to participate on it from former commissioner howard. I don't even know.

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What the veterans advisory council or for that matter, carroll county government, was.

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At that point, as I was running an installation but then participating and then I did know ed.

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Kramer very well because of his work at johns hopkins and getting to know frank valenti.

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um With them in establishing the ccvip was very important. It was like top of my list.

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uh To do, and uh you know, working with um federal government gsa about the building and establishing.

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um I am 100 in support of taking care of our veteran community and bill. You know that very well.

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um You know whether we miss something or not in initial bylaws, for this.

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This is something I was not a part of, you know, uh and I think we grew out of it. So it's time to.

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Update and just like uh commissioner gordon said there, we do things for the right reasons, with the.

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Information we have at the time um whether or not it's just stand the test of time or not. You.

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Only know that, by having the ability to review and having the time to step back and objectively.

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Review the rules in the bylaws and if things need to be changed or need to be changed, these bylaws.

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Were written and designed by you know the uh the head of the vip right with uh mr valenti and.

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Mr kramer and uh vac at that time I think actually frank, was the head of the fact or at that time.

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um So there was no, you know there was no miscommunications, there was no, you know. I've.

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Seen again in in the newspaper discriminatory, you know thoughts about this. It was a decision made.

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With the information we had at the time, taking a look at it now changing it, you know whether some.

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Dissent from it or disagree, that's regardless! It's! What does the majority of the organization.

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That's like with us, if we count to three we're good, you know, and if I dissent on a decision.

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I own up to the decision. If the majority you know says that's and that's exactly what you're.

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Doing bill- and I appreciate that um but uh yeah I just want to be very clear- that um I was on part.

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Of bylaws, but I was part of standing up a very important agency and a non-profit called the vip.

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For the right reasons um and that's taking care of our veterans, how that changes and morphs over time.

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You know we're one community and we gotta look at ourselves that way and we've had this conversation.

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A lot and I'm very adamant about it because of my commitment to our veteran community and carroll.

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County so, but I do agree, let's take a look at the bylaws, that's and if, overall, we have lots.

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Of committees and lots of organizations and that's what you know we're doing so.

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Okay, were you gonna come and I apologize yes um yeah, I'm um I kind of don't care about the history.

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Or the consistency with other groups, I I look at that that I think this was done when it was done.

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To keep the two groups independent, so they could develop the best they could and- and I appreciate.

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That decision, I think it was uh mutual at the time I've been involved with a lot of group with with.

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Bylaws and most groups every year there's some amendments and some changes because times change.

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Feelings change um the most depressing ones and I'm sure carroll county doesn't have that.

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I've been in a group, that's had bylaws for 20 years and you correct grammar.

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And misspellings that have been in it for 20 years and nobody noticed.

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um So so it's it's understandable. I I do understand mr nash in saying maybe it's.

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Not even time to do it because I I think it's very important to show the independence of the.

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Two groups, but I think that's been established and- and I think it probably is time to do it.

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Okay, anything else. Okay, I have a motion floor in a second, no further discussion, all improve all in.

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Favor of the action of removing article 5 attack 13., all in favor, aye, aye, okay, against hearing none.

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um We do have opportunity for public comment. Is there any public comment on this.

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Okay, let's move on to item number two. Thank you guys fall amendment come on up ms heisenberg.

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And prices there's yet or is it just you on fall amendment to the 2019 water and sewer master.

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Plan good morning, commissioner, says uh president rostina said: the purpose of the next segment is.

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For you to solicit public comment on some proposed amendments to the 2019 water and sewer master plan.

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Commenters during these public hearing process are typically limited to three minutes and prior to.

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Taking public comment, the board generally uh ask for some information about the proposed amendments.

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And some background, as with us as staff today is director, linda eisenberg from our department.

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Of planning, if you have any, would you like to give us a little background and sure I'll give.

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A brief presentation just to refresh your memory. Unfortunately, mr wagner is unable to be with us.

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Today so you're stuck with me to present this information to you again, as mr burke said, we are.

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Here for the water and sewer fall 22 amendment um to the water and sewer master plan, we went before.

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The planning commission on november 2nd of 2022 to recommend to you this body, the amendment to the.

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Water and sewer master plan- and we came before you all if you recall a month ago, believe it or not on.

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December 12th, I'm going to give you a presentation to request to go to public hearing which is today.

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As we're required under comar, this has been posted in the carroll county times.

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For two consecutive weeks, this is a clip of the public hearing.

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Advertisement, it was in the december 29th and january 5th, 2023 public hearing notice.

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So again, these are just amendments, so we update this plan every three years as we're required to.

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Understate law, we also process amendments twice a year, typically once in the spring, and once in the.

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Fall the reason for these amendments are things come up from time to time where property owners.

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Need to either come out of the service area for various reasons or properties need to come into.

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The service area, for various reasons. Typically, if there's a failing system and it's easy for.

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Them to hook up to water and sewer and they don't have an ability to either expand their.

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Well and septic tanks that we can bring them into the system. So today we have three map.

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Amendments the first map amendment is for the freedom sykesville area and that's both water.

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And sewer service, the hampstead water and sewer service area and manchester water service only.

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The freedom sykesville area is completely under the county's control for allocating water and.

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Sewer service, we work with maryland environmental services mes for our wastewater treatment and we.

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Withdraw our water out of the liberty reservoir for this area hampstead's a little unique. The.

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City runs the water system and the county runs the sewer system in this particular area. But.

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We work hand in hand with the town of hampstead in the planning and allocation of the water and.

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Sewer service for that area and the manchester is its own sole provider of both water and sewer.

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um In addition to map amendments, there is an amendment to a chapter for the city of.

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Westminster and our table 15, which is a water, a table that shows you allocations I'll get to.

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That further on in the presentation- but this is specifically for westminster's water service area.

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And this is relating to the westminster water resource facility, which is a pilot study for a.

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New water reuse facility, it was a request under maryland department of the environment that this.

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Facility amendment be added to the document, so that's consistent with the water and sewer.

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Master plan, so this happened at the end of august in 2022, they requested to come forward to process.

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This portion in this amendment, the new water reuse facility project, will continue to move forward as.

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The city awaits design and permit completion. There are representatives from the city here.

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Today, if you have additional questions regarding this chapter, which you all should have in your.

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Staff report that came before you all so for the map changes for the freedom, sykesville area.

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Taking these four parcels, which are known as for um I'm sorry, the stockdale smith properties, 411.

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Liberty, road moving from the long range, which is the hatched area into priority sewer service.

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Area this was able to happen because of some reallocation of underutilized capacity in the.

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Freedom area that we were able to redistribute to these properties um the estimated demand for.

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These properties, based on the calculation, were required to use by maryland department of the.

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Environment is 8 400 gallons per day for all four parcels. The proposal will use a portion, as I said,.

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Of the un underutilized demand for the disabled property, given the density reduction in the last.

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Comprehensive rezoning, the ability to use utilize, this demand reduces additional demand, developing.

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These properties that would bring to the system, we always run a real tight balance of what we have. We.

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Have everything allocated for the system so in order to bring new properties in reallocations.

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Have to occur and that's why this part, these series of properties were able to be brought.

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In and still keep the system where it needs to be for water and for sewer demand. In addition, four.

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Other parcels are coming in, which is actually just um to the east of the properties that you saw in.

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The freedom area these are across from century high school, more or less, and the proposal is.

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To utilize, a portion again about underutilized demand and the reason that these need to connect.

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Is that they are having issues with struggling septic systems and do not have the ability to put.

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New septic in several of the parcels actually have existing businesses on them that are having issues.

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And then other parts, portions, more toward the western portion of the kind of triangle parcels.

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Are undeveloped at this time, so they would have 5600 gallons per day allocated to them to be able.

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To redevelop and develop these sites, that's um the pizza place where stafford's is correct. Taekwondo.

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That, yes, across the street from highs right and the idea, is um the property to the west. um The.

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Established property, um which is actually uh has an approved site plan for a planned commercial.

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Center on that site, they are also in the water and sewer service area. The property owners to the west.

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Are working with them and they would use it as the conduit to connect to the municipal system.

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For the county, but it happened just to be good timing for them that that was moving forward as.

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Well, so they can tap into that and um you know get out of their struggling septic system issues.

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Next um 5591 linton road: this was an emergency connection due to a failing septic system. The.

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Property owner felt they wanted to be on public water, a public sewer for this particular site. It.

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Was challenging for them to get an additional septic system put in and it was just as cost.

M

Effective and better in the long run, to be part of the city system. I mean the municipal.

M

System for carroll county, and so this changing of the map does not really move the needle and.

M

The tables because it's one property, 250 gallons per day, so we did not update the table because.

M

Of that we just showed it on the map, and I believe that they are already connected to.

M

The system, because again it was an emergency situation, so they needed to move forward so.

M

Now we're just coming back and making that change consistent with the plan, I mean at the same time.

M

They decided to go for water as well, which made perfect sense, so they also moved into the water.

M

Service area in our own public, water and public sewer and again, this is in the freedom area.

M

um So this larger map here shows where the two main properties are. The third one is really small.

M

It's over in this area off of um linton, so we didn't outline it on the map, but this general.

M

North western quadrant of the freedom areas where the updates are occurring and, as you can see, we're.

M

Pretty fully allocated um there's not a lot of room for additional growth. The hatched means that.

M

um Maybe in the long range 10 plus years, if we do upgrades to the system, there would be.

M

A possibility to extend service to those properties, some are undeveloped and some.

M

Are developed so we'll be retrofitting in systems to those sites? um The light green.

M

Is a seven to ten year and then the priority means you can hook up today and turn on the.

M

Water and it'll be available once the site's fully built out. We move that to the existing.

M

Final planning, which is the darker green, so, as you can see, most of the freedom area is in existing.

M

Final planning, so there's not a lot to allocate in addition for additional development at this time.

M

um The manchester area had an amendment they sent in as well. This is to remove the college. I'm sorry.

A

That sykesville is there no changes or requests.

M

For the town of sykesville, no okay, nope, okay, thanks.

M

um So for the manchester areas to remove the cult rider property at 2900, hanover.

M

Pike and 2419 hanover pike from the projected water supply demand, and this will also change.

M

um Table 15 as well placing these properties in the long range. This is a request from them.

M

To be moved, we don't just move properties in the county or in the municipalities without.

M

The landowner's consent on that, so this is one that was brought forward by the town of.

M

Manchester working with the landowner to move them out of that um long range and then move.

M

The long-range move 2912 manchester llc at 2912 hanover pike property from long range to existing.

M

As well, because they are both currently being served, so this is to bring the maps up to date.

M

um And then next, the town of hampstead requested the addition of 6 30 hanover pike to the priority.

M

Water service area, the property is currently in use and is served by public water and private.

M

Wells, this is bringing them on to public water, the properties in the beginning stages of being.

M

Annexed into the town, all of our municipalities do require, except for the city of westminster, to be.

M

In the corporate limits in order to be served with municipal, water and or sewer, although the total.

M

Area of the property is 52 acres. The potential gallon demand 52 acres times. 800 is 46 41 600.

M

Gallons, the priority water demand is based on the existing sewer usage, which is an average of 500.

M

Gallons per day- and this is the random house site and currently they are on private water, so this.

M

Is to get them onto the public system and they've been working with the city and obviously the city.

M

Of manchester town of manchester to move I'm sorry to move this forward. Nextly in the hampstead area.

M

Is to move 1734 hanover pike from the future to the priority service on the hampstead sewer.

M

Service area map the property has been used as a self-storage with a small office. The amount.

M

Of water demand is minimal as calculated in table 32. So therefore again, because it's so.

M

Small, there was no need to update the larger demand tables, but to update the map to be in.

M

Correspondence with how the property is being used, um so these are the tables I'm not going.

M

To go over each number, but this is what we're submitting to maryland to the department of the.

M

Environment for their review to make sure that they're good with how the numbers fill out for.

M

um The demand and capacity to supply water and sewer service to these properties.

M

So um we typically give you a recommended motion. This is a legislative public hearing, so we would.

M

Leave the record open for 10 days after today's meeting to take in additional comments. We have.

M

Not received any comments today, so with that um tim is there anything else we need to do.

M

For the public hearing this morning, no, unless the commissioners have any questions or are there any.

A

Questions discussion. I do have um getting comments about disabled property and the reallocation of.

A

Water sewer from disabled property to these other properties.

A

I get confused, I mean, maybe it's because I'm a simple-minded person, but I get confused on what.

A

The folks are trying to really tell me: are they saying that the allocation of water and sewer.

A

Is not there appropriate for development and disabled property? What what what's the gist of.

A

What because I've sent some of that to you as well, and I want to sure so um disable property.

M

In the freedom 2018 plan, I I apologize disabled properties between ridge, road marysville 2 in the.

A

Southern part of the freedom district uh kind of to the south um right here, if you look at these.

M

Later patch of properties here to the southeast, it's this clumping here the furthest ones to the.

M

Eastern southeastern portion, so it's a large property uh for residential opportunity, but go.

A

Ahead, I'm sorry sure so when the freedom plan was developed in 2018, the calculations were based on.

M

The future land use designation of residential medium, which is our r 20 000 district. We did.

M

Comprehensive rezone, I'm sorry! Let me back up when we did the plan. We made sure at that.

M

Time that the land use designations had the proper corresponding infrastructure to make those come to.

M

A reality in the future, so we weren't allocating or designating things that we knew we couldn't.

M

Serve with public infrastructure, so therefore you know we did the math and saw that we could supply.

M

Those properties at that density with water and sewer service fast forward. We did a comprehensive.

M

Rezoning of all the properties that were to be in a concert with their master plan as a.

M

Buy request so property owners could come forward and say now. I wish to be in agreement during this.

M

Time frame that we set out with the master plan, so the property owner of disabled property came.

M

Forward wishing to be rezoned to r 20 000 to be in alignment with the freedom plan um at that time,.

M

The board of county commissioners did not feel as appropriate to rezone those properties, so instead.

M

Of moving to there are 20 000 designation. They stayed at their current, are 40 000, designation.

M

Which is half the amount essentially so half of that allocation and under a site plan has now been.

M

Freed up so to speak, that can be reallocated to other parts of the freedom area. I would say this.

M

Because it's not built yet, you wouldn't want to hang your hat on one property being the linchpin.

M

To add other properties, there were other changes within the freedom area that have also taken place.

M

To free up additional capacity, so it wasn't solely based on that decision. We had capacity.

M

In other ways from how other properties had been utilized and actuals over the last several years,.

M

That rebalanced, the freedom air that also made it possible to redistribute that small amount.

A

Yep, no, that did very well. um It just gets troubled yeah. I apologize, commissioner. That's all right.

E

Just the general question um you mentioned that uh or I guess my question is at what point or what.

E

Amounts uh does a change in gpd necessitate the tables to be updated, because I guess I'm.

E

The way that I'm looking at this is that if we have these minimal changes uh but they're not.

E

Reported over time I mean at what point does that add up to become problematic absolutely.

M

And so they will be so we rebalance this all the time um whenever we do an amendment, we.

M

Update the tables based on actual demand- and things like that, so this is estimated demand.

M

um We don't know what the actual is until they started up and running. We do this plan in its.

M

Entirety every three years as we're required to by comar, so at that three-year threshold.

M

As well, we pull in all new actual data, so that'll move the needle in one way or another, but because.

M

They're in the thousands decimal places, you know a small amount's not going to change that number.

M

With the round falling between, if they fall under the range that works, okay, correct, that's.

M

That will be before you, hopefully hopeful by june, of this, of the traniel update, which is.

M

Kind of let's clean all this up, restart and now you'll see the additive over the.

M

Last several years be recalculated and calibrated, and so it's kind of like that.

M

Resetting the base for things because usage fluctuates over time yeah. Thank you very much.

E

Okay, so um to ask: if there's any comments from the public at this time, is there anybody in the.

A

Room one comment uh chris, and we have no well. We have no one on the line, but.

N

If linda could pull back the virtual window, so we can run the timer. That would be great.

A

Yeah but chris you're not supposed to sit until I ask you so, okay, so there's no one on the line.

A

And there's no one in the uh in a room. What I do need now is a motion to close the public hearing.

A

And keep the record open for 10 days so moved. I got a motion. Second, I got motion. Second, a further.

A

Discussion on this seen here, not all in favor aye aye. Okay, great thank you! You I'm still here.

A

Okay, let's go: where are we at um oh rejoning case.

A

229, the hutton street 21 llc department of plan uh linda and hannah.

A

Take it away, yes, all right, commissioners, I have with me today hannah weber, who is a comprehensive.

M

Planner in the department of planning, um when we're here before you today, to request to go.

M

To a public hearing for a zoning map amendment or um commonly known as a piecemeal rezoning.

M

um This will be your first time as a board having this type of public hearing, so we wanted to give.

M

You a brief overview of what this means, um and so with that, I'm going to turn it over to hannah.

M

This is different than a comprehensive approach. um This is also different than the last public.

M

Hearing that you just had, which was a legislative public hearing, because we're changing a document.

M

This will be more of a quasi-judicial type of public hearing, where you'll be sitting more as.

M

A a jury so to speak, and there will be testimony given during that time. So with that there are.

M

Piecemeal rezonings and there's zoning I mean and their comprehensive rezonings. So if hannah uses.

M

Go ahead and go over your presentation. That'd be great! Good morning, everybody as linda introduced.

O

Since we have four new commissioners with us, we wanted to give a quick overview of piecemeal.

O

Rezonings, what they are, and some things to think about when you're making your ultimate decision.

O

In the end, so, as linda said, there are two only two ways to rezone a property in maryland and as.

O

Linda kind of went over there's one through the comprehensive rezoning process and then.

O

Two is through a piecemeal rezoning process, and that is what we will be discussing today.

O

Piecemeal rezonings are applicant driven and it's usually the property owner or the contract.

O

Purchaser of the property and they will apply to have their subject, property zoning changed.

O

The request to change the zoning vip memory zoning must be based on one or both of the following.

O

Arguments, and that is that a substantial change occurred in the character of the neighborhood.

O

Or that there was a mistake in the existing zoning classification, and that is taken from.

O

The maryland land use articles that is bigger than carroll county, as it is a state level law.

O

So some more highlights these are bullet points taken from a maryland department of planning.

O

Education course, the change or mistake rule puts a difficult burden of proof on the applicant for.

O

A piece of rezoning, the legislative body shall find that the rezoning is consistent with the.

O

Comprehensive plan and that the current zoning was applied in error or that a change in the.

O

Neighborhood has occurred so that further speaks to the change or mistake arguments needed and then.

O

Lastly, even if the argument of change or mistake is proven by the applicant, the local government.

O

Does not have to grant the request to rezone, so that basically means even in the end, if you as.

O

Commissioners find that there was a change in the neighborhood or a mistake in the current zoning.

O

You still don't have to rezone the property you're not compelled to do so. So if there's.

O

No questions on the piece memory zonings. I can go ahead and get started with the rezoning for today.

A

Any questions one process- nope, okay, okay, thanks so for for today, we have rezoning.

O

Case number 229 hutton street 21 llc. We are located in the freedom designated growth area.

O

Just we are north of maryland, 26 and east of the georgetown boulevard and maryland 26 intersection.

O

The request to rezone is 1.931 acres from our 20 000 residential medium to c2, commercial.

O

Medium, the applicant is arguing that there is a mistake in the current zoning classification.

O

And then here is the zoning of the property and the surrounding area as.

O

You can see the property is split, zoned between c2 commercial, medium and our 20.

O

000 residential medium, the request to rezone is only for the rear portion.

O

Of the property, the part that's zoned, r, 20 000. So ultimately, if you as commissioners, feel you.

O

Want to rezone this property to c2, the entire parcel would then become c2 commercial, medium.

O

So to date, at the december 13th planning commission meeting, they gave a favorable.

O

Recommendation to the board of county commissioners today, we are here for.

O

An introduction which I just gave and, as linda said, a request to go to public hearing. We have.

O

A tentative public hearing schedule for february 2nd this will be for staff and applicant arguments.

O

As well as time for public comment, we will have a discussion with on the board of county.

O

Commissioners and the applicant and staff and then a possible decision if you are ready at that time,.

O

And then, if you are not, we have time scheduled for february 9th for a decision and part of that.

M

Process is the property will be signed so visually on the property. There'll be signage, notifying the.

M

Community of a public hearing regarding the rezoning of this property, as well as we send.

M

Letters to the adjoining parcels, however, in this case, since it's so dense, we're actually sending.

M

Them even further out into the community to make sure that they're aware of this change.

O

And that will be posted in the newspaper as well. Thank you.

A

Okay, is there any uh questions on this one? uh I know this is still early in the process.

F

That I can't imagine that people on north walnut are too too happy about this.

F

And I haven't read through every history or piece of history on this property. But if this does.

F

Proceed: I would hope that the owner understands that there's going to have to be some sort of.

F

Screening or something pretty major to uh to help this along because this particular property I mean.

F

It's it's smack dab in the middle of art. For twenty thousand, I mean it's just the pictures.

F

Pictures don't lie so I'll, be looking for that. So at that time, um there's no site plan, that's being.

M

Submitted with this so it'd be really hard to tell what the actual final product will be so, but we do.

M

Have a robust development review process where, in this type of situation, um the planning commission.

M

Has the latitude to require additional screening and buffers from the local community right now.

A

It's an empty lot in the back portion, yes and the front portion it is, I don't even know if the gas.

A

Station is still open, yeah, it's the gas station, but right behind this empty lot, residential on the.

A

Right on east and then um commercial on most of the stores are on the left and there's residential.

K

In the back, yes, yeah and there's also residential adventure, correct, but yeah, okay, yeah.

A

Minutes: okay, any uh any other uh discussion on this.

A

Do I hear motion? Where is this thing sure um I moved the board of county commissioners schedule.

D

A public hearing for rezoning case number 229 wait, wait, wait, wait. I think we might have.

F

Somebody who wanted to make public comments yeah, so okay, I mean we could yeah. So you do.

D

That, before the motion, we can have public comment now it doesn't matter. I mean we're.

A

Going to public hearing, but yes, you have public comment, sure why don't you come on up to the mic.

A

uh No excuse me, the mic behind you yeah and just uh do me. Fair state state, your name where.

A

You're sure my name is jennifer crowley and I am a resident of north walnut avenue and I've received.

P

The letter we attended the meeting at the gas station with the developers on their intentions.

P

And I have spoken with many of my neighbors. We are not in favor of this change. We have that.

P

Lot back there, it is a great buffer between the commercial area and the gas station, and.

P

We're concerned that you know it's going to cause disruption to our daily lives. It's going to bring.

P

In you know, people that could be trespassing loitering, putting our children in danger and.

P

uh You know we just are very concerned about this whole thing that it's going to.

P

Decrease our property value, I don't think most people would want a car wash in their backyard.

P

Which is what their intention is to build: okay, yeah. Okay, thank you. Thank you.

A

um Okay, is there any other discussion? I appreciate comments.

A

Any other comments- um and I too appreciate the comments and just for clarification, all we're.

D

Doing today is scheduling public hearing to allow for more public comments, exactly correct right.

D

So you ready for the motion now I move the board of county commissioners.

D

Schedule public hearing for rezoning case number 229 button street 21 llc.

A

Okay, I'll second, that is there any uh discussion. Further discussion seen here, none all in favor.

Q

A

Okay, organized okay: let's talk about north carroll library, stormwater management facility renovation.

R

R

Yeah before we get into the hearing, wanted to give kind of set the stage a little bit for this. So.

R

The county has a national pollutant discharge, elimination system permit otherwise known as.

R

Npdes and this project relates directly to that, and so that npds permit is given to us from the.

R

Maryland department of the environment, and that stems from the clean water act, the federal clean.

R

Water act and that permit requires us to do so. A variety of things all related to improving.

R

The quality of the water in our streams and rivers so, and we actually just received our.

R

Fifth generation permit about two weeks ago, so we are planning on coming before you sometime in the.

R

Near future, to give you an overall informational briefing about the whole npds program and what the.

R

Permit requirements are and so on, but in the meantime our program is continuing along and.

R

So we're here before you uh related to a project, that's specific to that program. Obviously we're.

R

Happy to answer any questions that you may have about this project and the program, but I just.

R

Wanted to let you know that we will be coming back before you again to kind of do a deep dive.

R

Into the specifics of the overall permit and and why we do all these things so with that I'll turn.

R

It over to janet o'meara who's, our bureau chief of the bureau of resource management, ed singer, who is.

R

Our watershed management coordinator and, I believe you know, kerry from office of procurement right. I.

A

Appreciate chris and uh remember you small words and explain carefully because it is a complex.

A

Issue that we always deal with and can become very confusing, you know, as we move forward with.

A

These type of issues, so um education for me, will always continue, but also uh don't.

A

Believe we've gone through this yet for this you know my colleagues but okay. Yes, thank you.

S

Commissioners were here today to ask your approval to request an award to.

S

um I'm sorry to award the contract for the north carolina library, storm order.

S

Management facility, renovation to white pine construction corporation and the amount of 364.

S

000 three dollars the office of procurement issued a request for bid received six responses.

S

With white pine construction corporation being the lowest responsive and responsible bidder,.

S

This amount is within the adopted budget and no additional funds will be necessary.

T

So the the project we have before you this morning is an existing county-owned storm water management.

T

Facility the county currently owns over 259 facilities throughout some on properties like.

T

The library senior centers, the majority of which, though, are in residential subdivisions.

T

We have these facilities on a maintenance plan and we are, I guess, within the last 10 years, we have.

T

We started that plan so we're going through and we prioritized the facilities based on when they were.

T

Constructed and the type of materials that were used, this particular facility is an underground.

T

Facility or has an underground component to it, and the material that was used when it was initially.

T

Constructed was corrugated metal pipe. That pipe has the life life expectancy of around 20 years. It.

T

Was constructed in 1998, so we when we inspected it two years ago, there was concerns that we need to.

T

Do maintenance on it so we've worked with carol lynn service to develop a plan and as carrie.

T

Mentioned we put the plan out to bid and white pine is our it's the lowest responsive bidder, so.

U

Commissioners, um up on the uh up on the screen, there's a location for those of you who might.

U

Not be familiar with where uh the north carol library site is it's uh it's located uh just.

U

On the opposite side of hanover pike from uh hampstead walmart and uh the north carroll.

U

Senior center and just north of the uh the weiss, so um the we're expecting we've been in.

U

uh Coordinating with uh the bureau of facilities here in in the county, plus the uh the library, the.

U

Library manager of the facility is, is aware of of what we're going to be doing with this project and.

U

uh Are on board with uh the construction? That's going to be done. We coordinated uh for the best.

U

Time of year for them, so that would have minimal impact on their operations. The area that's shown.

U

In red here is the limits of disturbance where the where this project is going to be done.

U

We're going to have the contractor fence the area because there's a significant amount of pedestrian.

U

Traffic in and out of the library- and we just want to make sure that that everybody's safe, while this.

U

Project's ongoing, the the library building uh is uh it's it's that fainer line. That's.

U

uh That's outlined there, the the entrance is on the opposite side, from where the, um where, where.

U

That redlined area is where the construction will be taking place right now you can drive all the.

U

Way around the building, while this project's under construction will be fenced off and you'll only be.

U

Able to come in the entrance off of eagle ridge court and and won't be able to drive the entire.

U

Way around the facility, but we're here today asking for your approval to award this contract.

D

Is it will there be any disruption to the access driveway that comes in the back? That.

D

Goes to weiss, the fence will be no, that it'll be outside defense, and this this is actually.

U

In the parking lot of the uh of the library, it's on the back side of the library that.

U

Access driveway that you're talking about you can see it on the on the plan. It's it's.

U

um It's it's actually below the uh the library's property, so it's it that won't be impacted.

A

Any other questions it's a lot of money. Why is the big difference in money between.

A

um White pine and all the rest. Well, I believe you know it's only speculation, commissioner, but.

U

uh One of the contractors that told me that the contractor who has a place to go with there's a.

U

Lot of uh this is an underground facility is uh mr mirror had had referred to and there's there's a.

U

Lot of uh spool that needs to be removed and they have uh the contractor who's. Getting this uh bid.

U

Has a place to go with the excess fill and I think that makes a difference. um But we've worked with.

U

This contractor before and and uh they they've done good work for us. So we're not concerned that.

U

uh That it's, I know you you've, told us before, that the low bid's, not necessarily the best bid, it's a.

U

Very reputable contractor who's pre-qualified and we have full confidence he'll, be able to.

U

Complete keeping it local is good and they've done other work at the library site before so.

D

It's not like, they don't know, what's underground there, they put most of it in they put it in. Yes,.

U

They told us that I remember watching them, I mean I like keeping it local too. That's that's cool.

U

And I think the person who'll be managing this was was probably about two when they put it in.

A

Okay, any other uh discussion on this okay. I need a motion.

A

Anybody want to make a motion motion to approve the board of commissioners award.

E

The contract for north carroll library, storm water management facility, renovation to white.

E

Pine construction corporation, incorporated in the amount of 364 thousand three dollars.

D

Second, I got a motion. I got a second any further discussion seen here, none all in favor, all right.

A

Okay, thank you very much. Absolutely okay. Let's talk about uh replacing some xerox copiers.

A

You flying solo.

V

I was hoping in I.t nope they're, coming yeah, okay,.

V

Okay good morning, good morning, commissioners, good morning, good morning, commissioners, good morning.

V

Okay, we are here this morning, the office of procurement, in cooperation with the.

V

Department of technology services request your approval toward the leasing of two.

V

Xerox, copiers to complete document solutions, md llc in the estimated amount of 86 271.96.

V

Annually, this cost will cover, but is not limited to parts maintenance, labor and toner.

V

These machines will be leased, viva a competitively bid contract through the pennsylvania, education.

V

Purchasing program for micro computers, which is referred to as pepham, which is a technology.

V

Cooperative purchasing program and I'll turn it over to bobby and mark to talk about the machines.

V

Themselves morning, commissioners, I have with me you probably already have met bobby several.

W

Times as she helps you get your computer set up when you came on board, but miss bobby savoliski.

W

Is in charge of the client services, division of the county and overseas production distribution.

W

Services so bob you want to talk a little bit about the equipment. We currently have two xerox.

X

Copiers in the production services area, they we have a large black and white copier and well a.

X

Large color, copier and now a smaller black and white because we do less black and white and do.

X

More color these days, we produce quite a bit of documents, booklets and basically, whatever anybody.

X

Needs you know from westminster or from the senior centers, sometimes sheriff's department. They do a.

X

Lot of a lot of different kinds of documents, and these devices are high-end and extremely.

X

um What's the word, I want cost savings overall at the price per page.

D

um I have a question about the process. Just so I understand or try to understand the.

D

Technology cooperative purchasing program: it is that a contract, you're piggybacking.

D

Or you are part of that cooperative? Well, um both both it is. It is a cooperative program.

V

Out there it's been around for many years and, yes, we had to register to.

V

Join this consortium to take advantage of the discounts that they give us, so we've done both.

E

And I'm imagining and please correct me if I'm wrong that leasing these uh printers or I'm sorry.

E

These copiers uh is uh going to be more cost effective than actually purchasing purchasing.

E

Them out right ourselves, yes, and that that has to do with the fact that there are. There is a.

E

With these leases, there are uh cost coverage you're talking about parts, maintenance, labor.

E

Etc, covers everything pretty much other than the paper and the staples. Thank you. You're welcome.

F

So it's my understanding that over the five-year period, it's it's 86 k annually, but releasing these.

F

For five years, so it's over 400, 400 000 dollars to to lease these two yes and it'll. It'll have.

V

To be budgeted in each year this year I mean talking about this year's budget. How badly do we.

F

Need these I mean, are we yes? It's a the production distribution services consists of two staff people.

W

As you come in the sliding doors in the basement, they are directly on the right hand, side. um They.

W

Do all of the copy production for large print jobs for the entire county and, as bobby mentioned for.

W

Some of our partner agencies as well, they are used on a daily basis, if not an hourly basis downstairs.

A

Okay, any other comments discussion. I hear a motion.

E

Motion to award the lease of two xerox copiers to complete document solutions, md llc in the amount.

E

Of 86 271.96 annually. Second, I got a motion guys second, in discussion, all in favor all right: okay,.

A

Thank you very much, commissioners. Thank you. Okay, now, let's go from copiers to trucks, foreign.

Y

Ers morning, the office of procurement, in cooperation with fleet management requests.

Y

Your approval to purchase one 2022, f-250 crew cab, eight foot bed for 52 504, one 2022, f250,.

Y

Crew cab, 6.75 foot bed for fifty six thousand seven hundred and seventy nine dollars and one.

Y

2022 f250 crew crab 6.75 foot bed for 55 149 from crossford of tontitown and the total amount of 164.

Y

432, this amount is in within the approved budget, and no additional funds should be necessary. Good.

Z

Morning, commissioners, good morning breaking down this request, two of these trucks are replacement.

Z

Vehicles for the bureau of roads operations and one for the sheriff's department. I also brought.

Z

Along some pictures today to illustrate the need for replacement of these vehicles.

Z

First group of pictures is of the road supervisor trucks that we are looking to.

Z

Replace they are used for the transportation of staff tools and materials to and from roads, job.

Z

Sites- and they all are also equipped with front snow plows, so they do perform winter.

Z

Weather cleanup and because of their involvement with road, brining and salting, they do accumulate.

Z

An excessive amount of rust, as you can see in the pictures, with the board's approval.

Z

The purchase the two new trucks these will be decommissioned and sold through auction.

Z

This next picture is of the current vehicle that the sheriff's department is using as.

Z

The academy range truck, it does transport some dense items and gear to the range. The picture.

Z

Is to demonstrate how how much weight is actually placed in the rear of the truck, and you can tell.

Z

By the way, the vehicle is squatting. This is why we are requesting the purchase of a 2500 series.

Z

Truck it will better accommodate that excessive weight. This truck is still in excellent condition.

Z

So we are not looking to part ways with this truck. We will repurpose it. Currently, there is a.

Z

2015 chevy tahoe that is used as the mobile field force vehicle in the sheriff's department. It has.

Z

Nearly 150 000 miles and we're actually looking to replace that anyway, so we'll repurpose. This.

Z

Truck that is pictured uh that chevy tahoe will be decommissioned and sent to auction.

Z

um A little briefing on the process of purchasing purchasing these vehicles from a local dealer.

Z

Unfortunately, the major manufacturers have really limited our ordering potential for.

Z

Trucks and working with the procurement office and the budget department, we have determined that best.

Z

Route or solution was to shop for vehicles that were in stock. Fortunately, crouse ford of tawny.

Z

Town has these three vehicles in stock at the moment they're available for a media purchase so.

Z

With the board's approval, we would expect to have these in our possession by the end of next week.

A

You answered that question because I was like what: why are we going to krauss it's a first so.

A

Appreciate that and um so uh apple and a couple of the others regional are limiting purchases right.

Z

So orders that would be placed through government contracts, either state or other local governments.

Z

Yes, it's very limited. Actually, uh ford is only allocating three orders for carroll.

Z

County government that order was placed several months ago with the board's approval, uh so yeah.

Z

We are exhausting all options at this point to make sure we are replacing vehicles as as was.

Z

Planned I appreciate the staff working yeah. I mean you answered that question. So thanks you.

E

Know you have just a general question and and if anybody can enlighten me I'd appreciate that.

E

um I know you've mentioned that that you know these vehicles that are being decommissioned will be put out to auction. So I guess my question is: is when we make a motion to replace vehicles.

E

And I know we did this back in december, but when we make these motions do we need to include the.

E

Fact that we want these put out for auction, or is that just standard policy that this is it's part.

K

Of our required under our procurement obligations- okay, yes, just as we purchase things was uh through.

K

A very prescribed procurement process. We also have to dispose of county property in that same manner,.

K

Basically, all right, I just wanted to make sure thank you and at some point I guess, as we get.

E

Into budgeting, um I would be very interested in seeing uh what kind of of I guess revenue.

E

Would be the right word is generated through the auctioning of these vehicles. I'd be very.

E

Interested in seeing what comes back to us when these are auctioned off, I get that. Thank you. I'm.

E

Sorry- and we can also assume if they were worth much- you wouldn't be replacing them you're right.

A

Okay appreciate it good conversation any uh further discussion. If not, I need a motion.

E

Motion to award the purchase of three four to super duty trucks and the total amount of 164.

E

432 from kraus ford of tontitown. Second, I got a motion. I got a second any discussion seen.

A

Here, none all in favor, aye. Okay, thank you. Thank you very much have a great day. You too, you too.

A

Okay: let's talk about pinch valley, road request, public hearing.

A

Wait are we on that or not yet yeah? We are yes.

K

um I think we have someone who'd like to make public comment. I'm sorry.

A

um Initially, we do it before. Okay bear with me one second, I just want to get myself set.

A

We are on to pinch valley, road, correct, yeah. There. It is okay, that's the last page. So let's go with.

A

Public comment first and then we'll go on to the discussion, so you want to pull that down.

K

Sorry we have a public comment: yeah, sorry, yep, um good morning, gentlemen, um more interesting, I'm on.

AA

This side of the fence- um I am a soon-to-be resident of a home off of pinch valley, road.

AA

um So this, of course, has just come to my husband and I's attention that this is potentially going.

AA

To be happening, I did notice on the agenda. It says that there is going to be requests for a.

AA

Public hearing and that's is kind of what I am asking for is if something can be held like a.

AA

Town hall, at either pleasant valley, fire hall, um with a full explanation to the residents.

AA

Of pinch valley, road and adjacent roads off of pinch valley, road, such as pleasant valley and.

AA

Hue shop road. As to what exactly this details, um I can tell you as a soon to be resident of a home.

AA

There pinch valley road is used by potent, mostly all the residential people, um not too many people.

AA

Use it as a cut off you know, and a way to get around major highways. It is locally mostly used.

AA

um So I just you know, hopefully you can take some a little bit more time on this. You know.

AA

If it is a matter of having to do the airport expansion before you know, I just if you have to.

AA

Do the airport expansion and then look at what you need to do at pinch valley, but I just want.

AA

To make sure that the county continues to make wise choices and not later on going, oh, maybe we.

AA

Shouldn't have done that, so that's why I'm asking thank you yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay,.

A

um Let's get into uh the discussion uh the briefing.

AB

Good morning, commission, thank you for your time. This morning morning, director bookie- and I are here this morning to request a public hearing regarding the official closure of pinch valley. Road. uh Give me one second I'll pull that back up. I'm sorry.

AB

So, as you can see from the well, let me continue on I'm sorry.

AB

um As you know, the county has been been pursuing the acquisition of fee, simple.

AB

Property and various easements necessary for the future runway safety enhancement project.

AB

The first phase of construction, relocation of meadow branch, road outside of the runway, free.

AB

Objects area is scheduled to begin in march of this year as part of the planning and design of.

AB

The runway and safety enhancements, a portion of pinch valley road, is planned to be closed.

AB

Across the airport, property and cul-de-sacs installed at each end, as shown in the exhibit.

AB

The official process to close a portion of the county road involves advertising notice of public.

AB

Hearing for 30 days and a public hearing must be held to consider objections and counter positions.

AB

And so, as you can see here, the road crosses mostly airport property. This cul-de-sac to the east is.

AB

On airport property, the cul-de-sac to the west is on private property, the property owner there.

AB

Owns all the property that you see from our from our property line to that cul-de-sac, they are in.

AB

Favor of putting that cul-de-sac there and we are working with them to purchase the easement.

AB

To construct that cul-de-sac on their property, if you happen to answer any questions, you may have.

D

Yes, um I'm curious- and I know uh everything's subject to change.

D

What's the potential time frame, uh if, if, if you start out, you have the public hearing and and.

D

I don't know if it's already designed we when will the road close, potentially the road itself.

AB

Potentially will close, I would say, within three to five years: um it's going to be one of the one of.

AB

The first things that we do uh well for one of the first things we're going to do is clear.

AB

We need we need to do a lot of clearing, but that roadway, where you see you can see the end of the.

AB

Runway there, uh it from the from the end of that runway goes down into a valley and then back up.

AB

The other side that road will be under 40 foot of soil when we, when we extend the soil, that we need.

AB

For for the runway extension- and that was going to be my next question this- this isn't for safety.

D

Whatever this is because it's an actual part of the construction and it's going to be graded over.

D

It's it's going to be graded over, but yes, it's also safety. That area is in the runway. Protection.

AB

Zone and we need to own and control everything within our runway protection zone. As you know,.

AB

I've told you before the runway protection zone is notoriously where, if a plane is taking off.

AB

Or landing it's notoriously, where they would uh have trouble and or crash, and and for everything.

D

You've just said is reason why the there's no option to really relocate. It has to be closed.

AB

That's correct as far as the way it's been planned. Yes, yes, sir, with the timeline in development and.

A

Changes that you know are to be made regarding the uh the runway. um You said three to five years.

A

Could that be pushed to the right? As far as the the timeline I mean, is there a.

A

If, like something has to happen for this to then be close, I mean, or could it be one of the latter.

A

Activities it would need so I mean it can certainly push if, if some of the.

AB

You know the design we haven't designed the actual runway and or this area yet 100.

AB

um You know: we've done planning phases but uh yeah once once once the design is done.

AB

This this will be like I said you know, we're doing clearing, and this will be one of one of the first.

AB

Activities as we as we prepare to install the new runway, uh grading grading absolutely will be one.

AB

Of the first activities and and because of the grading you described it's it's, you know we're.

D

Looking at a flat picture, but there's no way that that the runway and the taxiway could be.

D

Ever installed without the road closed because of the amount of graded needed to make it make.

D

If we saw a profile it might, you know, hit us in the head more, but it just it has to be early. Yes,.

AB

It's anywhere it's it's about 40 50, feet under uh soil that that road will be under. I mean like so.

AB

It goes down, the valley goes down about 40 feet and yes, it'll be 44 to fill over top of that road.

E

So can I ask and I'm again we only have part of the map here.

E

um Within that section of road that would potentially be closed. uh It looks like there's.

E

A smaller road that kind of like s's off of it. Yes, now it! What is that road, so that road is on.

AB

Airport property it is, it is a um it's a dirt road that is used to access to the the farm field. That.

AB

Is on the airport property that we we leased to a farmer that road that dirt road extends.

AB

From from pinch valley, all the way over to indian head valley, and I'm imagining that road is not a.

E

Public road or will not be open to the public, its own private property. Yes, that's correct! Thank you.

F

Okay, well, I can I just a quick comment. I I mean I can understand.

F

I can understand how there might be some residents affected by this, because it it cuts off sort of.

F

A north northeast route for them and I'm not surprised, there's there's going to be public.

F

Comment about this, I think when we spoke about it a couple about a month ago, we really hadn't heard.

F

Much about the road closure, but I knew there would be. I knew there'd be some opposition to it. There's.

F

Got to be, I mean you're closing the road, so I mean looks like we might have three to five years to go.

F

Plenty of time to let everybody know what's going on, but at the same time.

F

I don't know, maybe look at some mitigating if we, if we, if we go this route, maybe some mitigating.

F

Changes to existing roads where it's not as I don't know, is there anything we can do to the.

F

Existing roads to to just I want to smooth things out and increase the the ability to get up to.

F

um That northeast area, like I think it's pleasant valley, is up there a little easier than the way.

F

It is now if we do close the road indian, I think indian head valley is the closest road.

AB

um And so what I would say that we can certainly look at that. That may.

AB

Require more property acquisition to to um take the to extend that road.

AB

uh As this area as it stands now, we we own that property, but again that property is in.

AB

The runway protection zone, so we can't we can't install a road across the runway protection zone.

AB

But I can certainly look to see if there's any kind of alternate. I guess I'm not I'm not asking.

F

The question real well, but I think you understand my questions. Yes, I do. I I'll certainly dig into it.

AB

One two three, four five real nine, like literal 90 degree, turns uh if there was a way to. I don't know.

F

Increase the flow I guess what's interesting is across the county. We either have.

A

Cul-De-Sacs that want to stay as cul-de-sax or we have roads that you know want to stay as roads.

A

And not turn into called sex, um and uh it does. It becomes inconvenient for those that are.

A

On those roads and for future homeowners, you know the impacts are significant.

A

um You know, and uh it is their priority you know, is getting in and out of their.

A

Home their driveway, their their road, their neighborhood and uh yeah. That this is this.

A

Is significant um to those that are living on that road and we gotta you know again.

A

Have that empathetic approach and look at other opportunities, but you know we'll see where it goes.

A

I think right at this point, though, it's um giving us the details, getting some comments and then.

A

Opening up for uh because that's what you want to do is schedule a public hearing right. Yes, sir okay.

D

And I think it's great um the public commenter don't throw stuff, but people are getting a lot.

D

Of notice about what's happening with this, and I understand the concern with any road closed. But if.

D

You look historically at the airport. I remember when people thought it was the end of the world.

D

Meadow branch was going to close and now to everybody, it's the existing road. You know so.

D

um So giving you notice and.

D

To your point, commissioner, it's been it's been in the master plan for 15 years.

AB

um And so yes, that notice has been out there. We are. We have reached the point where we need to.

AB

The faa needs to know that we're serious about closing this road. So that's why we're in front.

AB

Of you today to get the official closure to move forward with that understood what were.

E

The the recommendation is not to close the road. It's to schedule. The public hearing, correct yep.

A

Okay, do I have a motion.

A

I'll move the board of commissioners direct to dpw schedule, a public hearing to officially close a portion of pinch valley, road.

A

Second, I got a motion. I got a second in discussion further on this seen here, not all in favor.

I

Aye. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Let's talk about the relocation, metal branch, road, all right.

AB

So, as I stated in the previous agenda item, the first phase of construction for the airport.

AB

Runways safety enhancement project is the relocation of meadow branch road outside of.

AB

The future runway object-free area and it has been awarded to alan myers and is scheduled.

AB

To begin construction in march of this year, the department of public works is requesting approval.

AB

From the board of county county commissioners of delta airport consultants task order, number five.

AB

Regarding construction administration, expenses for the relocation of meadow branch, road construction.

AB

Administration will entail construction compliance, monitoring, submittal and shop, drawing review and.

AB

Approval geotechnical and materials, testing and inspections, punch list, inspection, final inspection.

AB

Record record drawings and updates to the airport layout plan the task order. Total is 455.

AB

000., the scope of work and costs have been have gone through. An independent fee estimate review.

AB

uh Which is required by the faa so that so what that is, is they they actually take a look at the.

AB

Skillful work that delta has proposed to us and we so an independent consultant that does the same.

AB

Work looks at that and uh determines whether they they feel that fee is uh reasonable and.

AB

So that's that is like I said, that's an faa requirement and so it's gone through that and.

AB

It has been approved by the faa, who will pay 90 of the task order. Number five costs. uh So that's.

AB

409 500 and the county will pay 10 percent of the task order, number five costs or forty.

AB

Five thousand five hundred out of the airport enterprise fund, these costs have been budgeted.

AB

And no further funding is needed at this time. I've had to answer any questions you may have.

D

Yeah and in the beginning- and I probably wasn't paying attention, did you say this.

D

Work, the physical works been bit and alan mars is doing it, that's, correct and, and then delta.

D

um Does the does the county control their subcontractors do do they? I I doubt if they.

D

Self-Perform all this, maybe they do they do not. No okay, so do do they look at local people or there's.

D

No requirement for that. Do you approve subs, or only after a certain amount, how's that work on.

AB

This we do work with with delta. um There are local subs, so so the surveying is being done by clsi.

AB

um Not all of the subs are local, so there's there's compliance monitoring, which the the.

AB

Compliance monitor will be looking at. uh Are we are we meeting the davis bacon act? uh Are we.

AB

Paying the correct wages uh are: are we meeting our dbe goal on the project? So there's a lot there's a.

AB

Lot that goes into this, and that's I mean on most of our construction projects. You'll see that our.

AB

Fees aren't this high, but in this particular case there are there's a lot of reporting and a lot of.

AB

Requirements that the f that is required by the faa, um so that's why you'll I mean this: is this.

AB

Is slightly higher than what we would we would typically pay on a construction project ourselves.

AB

The good news is somebody's helping to pay the bill. Yeah. That's right. I mean you're speaking like.

A

A true program manager, so uh no I mean really- uh and I appreciate that because they're very.

A

Insightful questions that uh I think need to be asked and need to be listened to because.

A

It is every time we turn around it's 455, 000 here and 600. I mean it's like that's a lot of.

A

Money- and you know the more- we keep it local, the better. I know I feel- and I think my you.

A

Know, colleagues feel- and we should all feel but uh anyway um I'll move the border. Commissioners.

A

Approved delta task order number five for the construction administration for the relocation.

A

Of meadow branch road outside the runway object free area in the amount of 455 thousand dollars.

C

Second, I got a motion. I got a second. Is there any further discussion on this? Just a really quick.

E

Question- and I may have missed this- I apologize if I did, why is it called delta task, or I mean what.

E

Is the company delta's the consultants airport consultant um yeah? Thank you much. Thank you. Yep.

A

Absolutely and you'll get to know delta real well. The consultants are very, very good what they do.

A

um Okay, I got a motion guys. Second, any further discussion on this seen.

A

Here, none all in favor all right, all right! Okay, thank you. Thank you.

A

Okay, we have uh an item, number nine um and it's a discussion of the super majority resolution.

A

um Did a request by commission report yeah, and so I didn't realize the um actual resolution wasn't.

K

In the book, so is this the resolution itself existing resolution? The existing resolution.

C

What's that it's the existing resolution, okay,.

A

So, okay, so where are we going with this? uh Do you you want to take the lead on this sure? I.

C

Can take the lead on this, so what we're looking at is resolution eight one or excuse me, 815-2011.

C

Which uh the at the time the board of county commissioners, opted to uh essentially create.

C

A super majority resolution that would require any additional future uh tax considerations to.

C

Be passed via a super majority instead of a uh three three person majority for the board.

C

um What we're looking at in reference to this today is one issue that it's sort of come up in.

C

In topic of this is this has been an issue that, at times gets brought up, is that we have a super.

C

Majority well, in theory, the super majority could be removed by three commissioners out of the five.

C

um So what we're looking at today would be the option to require a super majority to remove.

C

The super majority health strengthening our position on this. Obviously, if there.

C

Were ever a requirement, then we just all decided to raise taxes. It would still be.

C

The requirement of the initial super majority to do so it just would not allow this border.

C

Any current or future boards to uh easily remove this resolution with a 3-2 vote.

E

So, commissioner, basically, what you're talking about is a safeguard for a safeguard that is correct.

F

All makes sense to me, I guess I guess my question is we don't have a have to have a.

F

Super majority to approve the super majority for the super majority. Do we, I hope not.

K

And that can actually talked about that. I can sort of like that mirror effect. The.

F

Dumbest question, but it's probably close no, but I agree it's like that: infinite mirror.

K

Effect, yes, where does it right, yeah, I'm in that? I'm in that mirror? No, I I agree. It's.

A

Repetitive I'll just say that we have state laws they can repeal, they can be repealed by.

L

The state legislature in in home rule counties, you have charters, that's it there's a specific.

L

Procedure for repealing that we have as county commissioners, ordinances and.

L

Resolutions, and typically it's three out of five- can can repeal itself.

A

So, no I'm I'm sorry yeah. My question was and- and I this was done in february of 2011.- is there any.

D

History on this on uh on, if that was discussed, when this was done or just not not talked about.

D

And then, if, if the commissioners would pass this, then we're passing it in in theory and.

D

You would need to write something somebody would need to write something. I would think technically.

D

Legally that we would then approve right. What I would suggest is if the board's interested.

K

In adding the super majority of the super majority, then then would give that direction and then we'll.

K

Bring back, this would be the first step. I would that I think would be best, though, before you.

K

Have it in writing? You know exactly what you're approving that was my concern because again I.

D

Think I like the idea, but I before I say yes to it, I'd like to see how it's going to look, not that I.

D

Don't trust everybody yeah, certainly and as I recollect and and ted deb and and tim can all.

K

Chime in as well on the 59th board during their first budget deliberations on instituted this.

K

um And it was, I don't recall there being a lot of discussion or you know it was their feeling that.

K

This was important, I I do think it's important and what I'd like to see coming back if we get it is.

F

A is essentially a new resolution and you're just going to be adding language. I imagine under aware.

F

As that it takes a super majority to changed this resolution and I'd be happy to sign it.

L

It did come up in a subsequent board. Commissioner frazier, I think, introduced a a repeal option for.

L

Repealing the original super majority resolution- and it was not even acted on nobody, nobody was.

L

Interested in that, so that's a brief history. Yeah. So do we want do we proceed by general.

E

Consent that we want to see this, do we have to vote on this? I think just general does is super.

L

Super majority I mean stella's voting so well, that's what I was going to say. Let's ask stella.

A

And maybe uh he'll give us the guns, but okay, so it could be real, creative and say this can only.

D

Be changed with a vote of six of the five of us six of them? Okay, so so it sounds like we're.

A

Moving forward with um you know, presenting us verbiage where it would take a super majority to.

A

Change you know, modify or change the existing resolution. Yes, next thursday, we'll have one.

A

Okay in front of you, too sounds good good. This is for the next okay. Thank you so.

A

A

Fy 24 preliminary recommended cip and bond authorization.

E

Thank you very much. This is the first of many spiral notebooks. We will be getting.

A

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

E

Did everybody get a copy of this? Yes, do you know where I look forward for.

K

Tim tim I'd. Look for it thanks mom! That's your job, commissioner. Yeah.

A

I just have to remember when to throw out these books and when.

A

To get the approvals because they will add up. Thank you very much.

D

You're not going to ask questions about this. Are you there's a test at the end yeah.

E

Is it uh is it cumulative or is it unit specific it's open book? Does that help.

K

It's open books, oh she's, got more yeah. There's always thank you. Oh we we have them. We have this.

A

This is the same thing. Is it I think, so I don't want that. Is it. I got this better safe yeah. It's.

E

It's this one is for those hard to hard of reading. Yeah like this is for me exactly.

H

A

Do you want to give one to sell now, just you know, I don't think she's interested.

A

Sir, you lost the commissioner good yeah.

A

Two uh seconds- and you know I have to say more than once this morning at me- going through.

E

This meeting I keep thinking like who's this standing over here, because I see the t-shirt.

E

And I'm like: oh somebody wants to talk about something and then I'm like. Oh it's, the giraffe.

AC

I saw the draft and I said as if I don't have enough people weighing in on this now. I've got.

AC

A giraffe looking at my shoulder: how long is it here two weeks so she'll be circulating around.

C

Various departments I've heard rumors she may be driving a snowplow if we get snow. I don't know.

C

I think our next meeting it should be on her side. You think we could fit it in tim's office.

K

Good question it barely fit in the elevator. That's what I know I bet.

K

She's a little tall, I wonder, who put the glass it's reading glasses. I like the reading.

K

Glasses did she come with the reading classes? You showed up with the reading glasses yesterday he's.

K

Very intelligent, okay, so uh item number 10., fy24 preliminary recommended cip and bond authorization.

AC

So this is the first public step in the next budget process.

AC

We're actually here to do two things today, one is to share with you the preliminary recommended cip.

AC

This iteration exists to give to the planning commission, so they have something to react to.

AC

To give their approval that this is consistent with the county's master plan.

AC

Before we go to them, we share it with you so that you see what's going to be going going.

AC

There we'll talk a little bit more about well I'll. Tell you a lot more about that in just a second.

AC

Thing we're going to do is talk about bond authorization.

AC

Every year we have to go to the general assembly to get authority to issue debt.

AC

That legislation is the same legislation every year, except there's a blank we have to fill in.

AC

How much are we asking for? uh The second thing we'll be doing today is getting your approval to.

AC

Send that number down to the the general assembly, so you have a few things in your hands up there.

AC

One is this orange book: this is what was requested in the cip process.

AC

People often ask me so how much did people request and I never know the answer, because.

AC

My starting point is never what did people ask for my starting point is: what do we already have.

AC

Planned how much money do we think we have, and how do we build to work within that that.

AC

Number, but you can see what people ask for much of this is not going to be in the recommendations.

AC

And it's also important to note that there are other things people might be interested in. That.

AC

Don't even show up here, sometimes people we'll make a call themselves that that'd be good to do.

AC

But I'm not sure it's the most important thing or they might say I don't see a chance of this moving.

AC

Through and they don't even ask for it so this this is what officially went through the process.

AC

And then the yellow book is the preliminary recommended, cip.

AC

So, first, what is the preliminary recommended? Cip? It's a first look.

AC

It's fiscally feasible, although with where we are right now we have to be.

AC

I have to say a little bit more about fiscally feasible. uh We we believe this is doable. This.

AC

Year, but you remember, our operating plan is currently not in balance. So when we say anything.

AC

Is fiscally feasible once we look beyond today we're saying we still have things to work out.

AC

uh Consistent with commissioner goals, this is another tough one right now.

AC

We know very little about what this board's goals are for the cip, so this is more about.

AC

Consistent with the decisions that were made for the plan that is currently in in place.

AC

As we move through the process, it could be that this board will.

AC

Take some paths that we have not built into this plan yet, but that that will um build as we go.

AC

A continuation of existing plans- this is always true. You building your six-year operating plan.

AC

Or six-year capital plan is not a commitment to anything. It's a statement of intent. It's a road.

AC

Map for where we think we're going, but not only can it change, we know it will change. There will.

AC

Always be a change as we have another year's worth of information. Another year's worth of.

AC

Discussion by the board and other things coming up that we had not planned for hmm and uh and.

AC

For you, maybe the most important point here is this is the starting point for your discussions.

AC

Kind of flip side what the primary recommended, cip is not. It is not the final cip, so anybody.

AC

Out there who looks at this and says: oh I'm not in here story's, not over.

AC

On the other side, what you want is in here the story's not over either.

AC

It is not the end of analysis. The budget analysts continue to work with the agencies, not on every.

AC

One of these some of these we've gotten to the point where we believe need to, but there.

AC

Are some things where work continues and that will be true as we move through the process.

AC

And it is not a commitment to project funding, timing or revenue mix. Now, eventually, we will.

AC

Be making commitments for fiscal year 24, but again the rest of it remains a plan.

AC

Three big ideas, as you think about this.

AC

The cip is largely dedicated to maintaining the infrastructure we already have. There are a lot.

AC

Not a lot of new initiatives and even some of the big projects that we have right now and there are.

AC

Not a large large number, but there are more big projects than there have been for more.

AC

Than a decade, but east middle school and career and tech are largely about.

AC

Maintaining infrastructure career in tech, we are adding some space, but a lot of it is about.

AC

Taking care of what was already there, the two big projects we have that are really new initiatives.

AC

Would be the sheriff's headquarters and the state's attorney's headquarters? And when I.

AC

Say new uh they're not new starting this moment, but they are construction projects ahead of us.

AC

I think, as you consider, your capital budget you'd be very careful about adding projects that are.

AC

Going to bring ongoing costs with them again we're currently over committed on the operating side. So.

AC

Every new operating cost just makes our problems that much bigger and we talk about operating costs.

AC

There's a lot of things to think about. If we issue debt we have debt service, that's going.

AC

To add a cost to our to our budget, but it's also things like: does this project increase the need.

AC

For people, or are we going to have electric bills? Are we going to have uh oil bills? Are we going to.

AC

Have grass to mow, we have new things to maintain, and this is a further down the road kind of thing.

AC

But something that's growing in importance in my mind, we need to remember everything.

AC

We build a new park, a new road, a new building someday, is going to need to be renewed and we.

AC

We should not ignore that as we're making the decisions on do we want to do something new today.

AC

If we find ourself in a situation where we want to decrease our spending for capital purposes,.

AC

There's not a lot of flexibility here. Most of what we're doing is stuff that just has to get done.

AC

Probably the two big exceptions would be the state's attorney headquarters and the sheriff.

AC

Headquarters now I'm not suggesting you could easily back away from those just saying if you.

AC

Found yourself in a situation where you said we have to find a way to spend less money to.

AC

Free up dollars for something else, those would be decisions. You can make an example. um The sheriff's.

A

Headquarters down eldersburg, when we took that away, we we had it pushed out, but then we.

A

Basically precinct the precinct yeah, that's freed up, I'm sorry dollars right. I mean that was uh you.

A

Know at first it was on a certain day. Then we pushed it out further, but now it's not even in.

A

I don't believe the cip right right, yes, so that that's an example of what you're saying: okay,.

F

uh Commissioner rothin that's sort of answered part of my question: what happens to that project.

F

We cancel it, but the money itself. We are not obligated in any other way to to spend that.

F

Money that that money can come back comes off the cip budget. There isn't because of its cut.

F

Because of it's a bond issuance other things, there's nothing tying our hands.

F

uh That money comes back to us is that is that, right, you can say something.

K

um Well, you answer first and then I'll see if you should give you the right answer. No so.

AC

Conceptually, yes, the board decides to put these things in the board can decide to take them out.

AC

Occasionally there are things where we are tied to some law, some state or federal mandate. That.

AC

Might complicate that, but taking it out can mean different things if we planned to sell debt for it.

AC

We this will come up in other discussions, but we we try to time the issuance of debt.

AC

So that where we don't issue it before, we need to spend the money most of it actually follows the.

AC

Spending so if we haven't issued the debt, yet all that happens is a plan to issue debt goes away so.

AC

It doesn't create any money, but it makes a planned expenditure go go away if we have sold debt uh now.

AC

We do have some money in hand that is freed up for another purpose, although that can get complicated.

AC

Too, but we don't need to get it into that today. If we have cash on it, you can take cash and put.

AC

It, wherever you want again few exceptions, if it's a wrecking parks project where we have program.

AC

Open space, that's a state, dedicated revenue, you can stop the project, but you can't go pave a road.

AC

With that with that money, so the easy answer to your question is yes, but when we get into.

AC

Actual things happening, there might be all kind of details we have to talk about and we did not.

A

um Obligate dollars to that precinct at that point, did we I mean it was planned in.

A

The budget, but there was nothing but no, it wasn't obligated no and then we pushed it out further and.

A

um You know it's, it's risk mitigation, it's it's working with uh the community and the sheriff.

A

And figuring out what made sense. But we took it off to allow us to look at other opportunities.

A

For other projects, so did that get you where you needed to go? Did I you know? I appreciate that.

F

The hypothetical case being you know, we don't know what the future holds and we need. We need money. So.

F

I say hey what, let's you know, let's take the money from this project. That's planned in the future.

F

And because we need it to use it for something else, but I understand your point of being. It's.

F

Not quite that simple, but and you it works, you'll find that this will will happen. A lot you're going.

AC

To ask me what you think is a simple question that gets a simple answer and I often will say.

AC

Well, it's not quite as simple as that and depending on the situation, we'll figure.

AC

Out how far we have to go explaining the complications? I appreciate that very much.

AC

Okay, capital fund- and I say this this way because we talk about the capital budget.

AC

But it can get mixed up exactly what that means. Remember. Government governments run.

AC

On fund accounting, so your operating budget is actually the general fund. We have a capital fund.

AC

But projects that are associated with your enterprise funds, solid waste airport.

AC

Water and sewer our separate funds of those of their own, so their capital projects are in.

AC

Their funds not in the capital fund, but they all show up in the capital budget.

AC

Are you having fun yet.

AC

Just want to give you a little history, some context for.

AC

Where we are relative to where we've been the red bars are history, the blue bars are the cip.

AC

That we're talking about now and you can see what capital fund spending was over these years.

AC

uh You'll notice there was a significant dip that was reacting to the great recession, but.

AC

Like many other things, we've we've never gone back to the same levels of activity on the capital side.

AC

That we used to- and this is literally true if you go to a capital budget book from 15 years-.

AC

Ago and you look at it compared to this, the size difference is is easily noticeable. uh This doesn't.

AC

Fully tell the story, though, so I want to show you the same information now adjusted for inflation.

AC

And what you see is our spending is considerably lower than it was in a practical way than it.

AC

Was once at another time- and even this isn't the whole story, because all we're doing here is using.

AC

um Consumer price index, which isn't really a very good measure of the costs that we're facing on.

AC

Construction projects, so I would say it would look even more interesting if we actually built.

AC

In cost of steel and cost of asphalt, and things like that, so um not going anywhere with this.

AC

Just want you to have some understanding that we truly are doing less now than we did historically.

AC

Some more history, and in a minute I'm going to be showing you what the projections for.

AC

Our outstanding debt will be based on this plan, but I wanted you to have some history.

AC

To understand we're going to be telling you that outstanding's debt is going to be growing, but I.

AC

Want you to know that it's growing after years of actually having decreased significantly you'll, see.

AC

In fiscal year 11 we had about 330 million dollars of outstanding debt that dropped to.

AC

About 240 million dollars in fy 22., so over 11 years we actually cut our debt by about a third.

AC

Now nobody, I don't think ever thought we could continue doing that forever. I mean the needs, don't.

AC

Go away uh and we are going to see that this this path will change now. Now, as we look ahead based on.

AC

This cip you'll see that outstanding debt is going to to start to grow even at this at fiscal year, 29.

AC

18 years after that fiscal year, 11 number I showed you we will have gone from about.

AC

330 to 410 million dollars, and of course this is not a straight line into the future. This.

AC

Is based on the specific projects that we're talking about here, as we consider what other.

AC

Things are or not in our future, then this will change. So what's in the preliminary.

AC

Recommended cip, we're not going to go through all the projects, they're just certain ones. I.

AC

Want to touch on because they are big, they're important, they're noteworthy for some reason.

AC

I mentioned this before but important again. You know this idea that most of what we're.

AC

Doing is about maintaining the things that we already own, it's also about maintaining.

AC

Our efforts in agricultural land preservation and in water quality and remember with water quality.

AC

um Much of what we're doing is based on the clean water, federal, clean water act and as.

AC

It is implemented by the maryland department of environment, so you have other people telling you.

AC

What you need to be doing here, not specifically project by project, but the the end results that we.

AC

Need to be working toward, uh we have to make some changes to our emergency communications system.

AC

In a simple way, this is about taking some old technology and updating it. It's not really a.

AC

Discretionary item- it's something we we have to do the career and tech center for the school system.

AC

Well, on its way, renovating the existing building and adding a a significant piece of new space.

AC

East middle school school replacement also well under its way a long list of park projects.

AC

In most years, we, where you see the most activities with park projects, and that is because so much of.

AC

It is funded by a program open space, a state shared tax, as I mentioned a little bit earlier,.

AC

That's dedicated to this purpose doesn't buy you anything else, but it does allow us to keep going.

AC

With park, projects use other funds besides, project open space to fund park projects. Yes,.

D

um But in this some money goes from the county to towns or the cities for construction. Also, is that.

D

Part of this, or is that a whole separate thing? Well, there's not really money going.

AC

To towns for projects, we have a place that where we cooperate on water quality projects,.

AC

When we're doing the eight towns in the county used to each have their own permits and national.

AC

Pollution, elimination, mpds natural foods leave it at that, um so we we each had permits uh a few.

AC

Years ago we all went together on one permit and part of what we agreed to do with the towns. There.

AC

Is when we took on projects that existed inside the towns, the towns would be funding. 20 percent.

AC

Of the cost of this project and the county would be putting in 80 that's in our budget.

AC

Though that doesn't show up in in their budgets no some some project open space money can go to.

D

Them, okay, through you and parks and record, is that yeah, so that's, basically a pass-through okay! It's.

AC

It's not so much us deciding to give people money as comes from the state. Then we give it to them.

AC

um So when I talk about maintaining infrastructure, what am I talking about? You know roads and bridges.

AC

Hvac roofs paving a lot of asphalt. You know when you think about the buildings. We have.

AC

And you think about the school system, uh it was the schools, it's not just parking.

AC

Lots, but you know, bus loops and roads in and out of school school sites are parks.

AC

Yeah, we need um we build parks and then you have to maintain them.

AC

Technology goes on forever: storm water ponds, water and sewer. All these things need ongoing renewal.

AC

You know and back on that idea I talked about a little bit earlier about thinking about the.

AC

Future, when we're deciding to take on new things, they're always good good reasons for.

AC

Doing something new we've gotten to a point. Now, though, I think we have to be asking ourselves.

AC

With every new thing, do we really want to take on something more to maintain and renew in the future.

AC

Schools, I've already mentioned career and tech in east middle school.

AC

We have hvac projects, roof replacement projects. You know an interesting thing with, with the.

AC

Schools and commissioner kyler will have some familiarity with this. Probably, but we went through.

AC

A pretty big bubble of school roofs that need to be replaced, and much of that is attributable to a.

AC

Time when we were building a lot of schools, there wasn't always as much money as people might have.

AC

Wanted and a choice that got made frequently was to do lower quality, roofs that had lower lives.

AC

um Shorter lifespan- and we suddenly found ourselves with a whole lineup of roofs that need.

AC

To be replaced, the good news here is as a fiscal year 30. We will have made our way through that.

AC

Bubble and and the roofs that we're that are being replaced are being replaced with longer life, roofs.

AC

We have, we have some of our schools. Now we have expectation of 40 50 years on some of the roofs.

D

And I think people uh it's hard to understand. You have them together, but the hvac and.

D

The roof replacements are very much tied together and and how and often can happen.

AC

Yeah, when we have both of those happening, uh we we time the the budget and the construction.

AC

To do the hvac before you do the roof, so you're not messing up what you you just did.

AC

You know I talked about paving technology, the school system, just like us, you know heavily.

AC

Dependent on technology relatively short life for a lot of things, and we have to keep replacing.

AC

We'll be running into this a little bit later, but talking about the hvac.

AC

A big change, you'll notice between this year, cip and next year's cip, is how much money is in there.

AC

For hvacs at the schools, that's because we we had nothing in this year's budget. There were concerns.

AC

About state funding that career and tech in east middle school had sucked up all.

AC

The funding and was there going to be anything available for hvac projects.

AC

uh We looks like we're moving past that the state has stepped up a little bit more than.

AC

Maybe we could have counted on so you'll see that that plan is back in place again.

AC

Maintaining effort agriculture, land preservation uh budget continues throughout and water quality.

AC

We've already talked a bit about that some new things in 24-29 an antenna system at.

AC

The community college- basically, this is as we move to 5g some of the technology that was good.

AC

Enough before is no longer good enough to do what it's supposed to do, and we need to replace that.

AC

uh Community college technology in 28 and 29. we have a pretty long-standing arrangement with the.

AC

College, where the commissioners have agreed to provide a certain amount of funding for their.

AC

Technology needs to be matched by fundraising for them. This is the one place where we've tried to do.

AC

Fundraising in connection with our capital budget that actually worked, and it has worked well so.

AC

They're reaching the end of the last agreement that was in place and looking to start another.

AC

uh We've added self-contained breathing apparatus. We've been tackling this as kind of a as needs.

AC

Came up in the past volunteer companies coming in we're. Now we think we've gotten to a point where.

AC

We may as well just build it into the plan because in practice that's what's happening and a a.

AC

Remodel is the right word, a a new, better holding area for the historic uh courthouse.

AC

Mill road slope repair when we get further along, probably show you some pictures of this, but this.

AC

This is one of those things that we, it was not planned for because it was okay until it wasn't.

AC

Okay, now we have some work. We need to do on a a slope that sits above cleves mill, road.

AC

Mckinstry's mill road: this is a bridge over tributary to little pipe creek, not all water.

AC

In carroll, county actually has a name, so this one just gets called tributary little pipe creek.

AC

um We always have bridge projects.

AC

That's fairly stable in the planning, but sometimes we find that a bridge as it gets.

AC

Inspected needs to move ahead of others, because it's become a a greater concern.

AC

And you'll hear more about this again later, but uh for most of our bridges. 80 percent of the funding comes from the federal government.

AC

So part of what we have to do here is also match what we're trying to do with bridges to the actual.

AC

Flow of revenue from the federal government uh there are some outdoor basketball courts.

AC

And then stem run. This is also a bridge over wolf pit branch. When this came up, I had never.

AC

Heard of wolf pit branch before and made me wonder a little bit where that name came from.

AC

Some changes from the plan that exists right now.

AC

In roads we have two projects to do new construction, georgetown, boulevard extension.

AC

And monroe avenue extension with both of those we're seeing changes in in construction costs that.

AC

Are leading us to revise the numbers that are in the budget and what the pavement management this.

AC

Is taking care of the roads? We already have same story, prices are, are going up and you see right.

AC

Below that scope, this is really about timing. uh There were some roads that we intended to.

AC

Do this year that we couldn't do within the money that was available and did some rearranging over.

AC

The five years to keep those next in line, but then had to rethink some of the other roads to.

F

Georgetown boulevard is, I think, down in eldersburg, but where's monroe also well actually they're.

A

Both eldersburg they're, both ellensburg yeah georgetown, is that hair pink turn by oscars and.

A

um Creating a circle there, because the intent is to then take one road off of that circle. Go.

A

Into the beauty property uh all the way like towards progress, monroe is uh split by 26.

K

Right, actually, it comes north of 26, it's split by the wolf property. It's split by wolf power. I'm.

A

Sorry, no, it's! Okay! It's football! Wolf, property right, so this is filling in filling in a gap.

AC

Yeah in an existing road right and uh just uh georgetown that that hairpinter is so freaking.

A

Dangerous uh the way it is now because it's like a 10 mile per hour and there's more accidents that.

A

Happen on a hairpin but creating that circle. You know it's gonna be important, so you need.

F

To slow down you need to slow down. Commissioner, hey me, it's my son! Now it's I mean it's a ton.

A

Of folks I just went there this weekend. There was an accident last week, yeah it's crazy, but.

K

People do need to slow down, they do most importantly everywhere and there's a park.

AC

Project northwest trail we had to revise the cost estimates park. Restoration is a capital.

AC

Budget that is used to renew like pavilions, for example, at the at the parks, also cost increases.

AC

um Systemic building renovations- this is for the county again talking about hvac and roofs for our.

AC

Buildings uh generator replacements, parking lot overlays now, uh with costs for capital projects.

AC

Yet because we're planning for six years, we knew we do need to build in certain assumptions for.

AC

Costs in the future, you just want to make sure you understand that gets reevaluated every year.

AC

We don't we don't build it in and then say that's what it is. You know if we find that.

AC

Asphalt drops by 20 percent, we will react to that or if steel goes up by 10, we will react to that.

AC

So obviously much more in here than what I just said, but I think those are those are some of the.

AC

Highlights so what's not in the primary preliminary recommended cip a much much.

AC

Longer list than what's actually in and again, I'm not going to try and tell you everything, although.

AC

It is all in the orange book schools, william winchester elementary school modernization.

AC

Is next up on their priorities? You know talking about modernizations.

AC

um We haven't done very, very many for a long time, east middle schools getting.

AC

It career and tech is getting it back before that.

AC

Mount airy middle school has there been something since then.

AC

um It's been a while, since we've taken on one now, if you think about a school, we have 40 of them.

AC

And let's say we think a school has a life of 40 years. If that's the case, you need to.

AC

Be doing a school a year, either a modernization or a replacement. If you say now, they last longer.

AC

Than that they last 80 years, even there, that would mean a school every other year. We are.

AC

Nowhere near that kind of pace, what has been happening in practice is we're handling pieces.

AC

Of modernizations we do the hvac, we do the roof, we do an electrical system, we replace windows.

AC

A few years ago, westminster high school had bricks falling off the facade uh that was in.

AC

Nobody's plans uh that that one turned into a bit of a. How do we get this done, but you know.

AC

It's all, if you're not doing the whole thing you still have to deal with with the pieces.

D

And I think your earlier comment about when they were building schools quickly. I've questioned.

D

William winchester, as be we really being the next one. Liberty was probably the cheapest built high.

D

School and I think we're soon going to start paying for the cheapness of when it got built.

AC

Yeah and on that point when, um when we talk about priorities for modernizations.

AC

We are largely driven by the decisions that the board of education makes now in the budget office.

AC

You know we will question some things and say well last year you were saying this this year.

AC

You're saying this or isn't this a bigger concern, but uh we are not trying to make those decisions.

AC

Kindergarten and pre-k editions they're going way back to in full day kindergarten.

AC

Was mandated by the state- and I don't even know what this is 15 years now.

AC

It's been a long time there there were, I believe, four elementary schools that did not get additions.

AC

They didn't get them because of money, and the need wasn't as compelling as some of the other places.

AC

But that never happened. We now have our next full day: kindergarten mandate, basically with blueprint.

AC

Legislation extending pre-date kindergarten to a much larger population space will be needed.

AC

And this is very complicated for us right now, because the legislation.

AC

Also makes this assumption that the private sector is going to handle about half of the need.

AC

And I've not talked to anybody in a county who believes that that's actually going to happen.

AC

So we know we're going to have to plan for pre-k capacity editions, but right now we don't. We don't.

AC

Really know what what that means. We have. You know john o'neill. Yes, they talked about two things that.

AC

Are true but incompatible? You know, I think, we're kind of there on on this. We know the law says.

AC

Counties you need to have to handle half of this, but I think we also know it's not actually going.

AC

To play out that way, so what does that mean, and what are we going to do with it? Don't have an.

AC

Answer for you right now, but that's a fairly that's a that's a gap. We're going to talk some.

AC

More about things that aren't in here that we need to talk about, but because it's not in here doesn't.

AC

Mean we're not going to have to deal with it; it just means we don't know how to deal with it. Yet.

AC

Barrier-Free modifications but think ada first for schools, we've accomplished much of what we.

AC

Need to accomplish there's not much spending going on. I believe they have somewhat of a balance right.

AC

Okay, security improvements, an annual request. We don't have a plan from them on what they're trying.

AC

To accomplish and we're reluctant to budget money for a theoretical uh idea of security.

AC

Roads that are not in um there's another place where we're looking at making a.

AC

Connection between some roads and also a bit of a realignment there are some questions related to.

AC

Development happening there that I think need to be resolved before we can budget for this.

AC

A sidewalk down in the eldersburg area, uh public works would like to replace some.

AC

Existing salt barns add some new salt barns right now, there's no. It might be a good thing.

AC

But there's no compelling need to do it right now. uh Slacks road and improvements.

AC

We have a facility going to be built on slacks road has some challenges.

AC

We don't know what we need to do here, yet that doesn't show up in the cip in a facility. That's.

A

The va center, so it's a 200 million dollar give or take facility that can be funded by the state.

A

And by the feds, not by us a slacks road, if you go to freedom park, all the way down the end, make.

A

A left that slacks road, where the american legion is it's a very difficult road. um You know there's.

A

uh You know on both sides of it, so getting that improved for increased egress working with the.

A

State federal government on that road uh and then trying to come up with a a solution. But.

A

It's got to be dealt with because of that project. That's a big project. It's a project, we're private.

D

You would probably require traffic study and make the private entity at least kick in for it, if not.

D

Pay for it is there any hope of that with uh with people funding it or so hope, not being.

A

That course of action, but uh actually talking to um the state, that's why I brought it up to.

A

Secretary ports, um now I don't know who the new administrator, the new secretary will be, but.

A

He or she may be more amenable because it is on governor-elect's radar about this and he is a.

A

10-Year veteran- and I shared with him this issue last week at mako, so that may be a way to leverage.

A

It um talking to uh sarah carden the other day about it and continuing to talk to him, and he.

A

Said there are four people on appropriations that represent maryland, so keeping that on their radar.

A

um Is going to be important, so yeah we're gonna, we're gonna figure this out.

A

um Because it's going to be a heavy lift, what I don't want to do is I don't want to tell anybody.

A

That the infrastructure does not allow us to have that facility there, because that's a big win for.

A

The county and the community for job creation and taking care of our veterans, so so on funding you.

AC

Know there are possibilities where I'd say: history doesn't lead us to count on somebody else. Funding.

AC

This stuff right- this is just one quick, you're, absolutely right, if it's a private, you know.

K

Private entity we have the county, has a lot of um control over how that development occurs. When it's.

K

Either the state or the federal government they they really basically don't tell us anything. They.

K

Don't have to pull any permits, they don't have to do traffic studies, they don't, um for example, when.

K

The readiness center, the uh linda general major general, linda singh readiness center, was built.

K

The only thing that they provided to us was water and sewer utility information because they had to.

K

Hook up to our system other than that, we wouldn't anything so just that's the way it works. Yeah.

A

No good question now: okay, also not in uh a bridge babylon road over civil run. This is actually a.

AC

Bridge that has been in our plans for a number of years.

AC

uh But we need some easements from a property owner there's no, no indication that we are.

AC

Going to be able to get them so this we, we have taken this bridge out of our plan.

AC

And then woodbine road bridge this. This is just a matter of funding and timing. Yes, so I mentioned a.

AC

Little bit earlier, we have to match up what we're going to do to the availability of federal money.

AC

A bridge that we will do, but it just doesn't fit in this plan yet wouldn't that be shared.

F

Cost with is it how isn't that on the county line? This does that particular south branch patapsco.

AC

um We don't share costs on any bridges. I don't know when or how this happened, but.

AC

Every bridge that crosses a county line belongs to for maintenance purpose at.

AC

Least, belongs to one county or the other, okay good good, to know thanks. I I forget, I think.

K

I think I've been told- and we can double check this- that all the ones on the howard.

K

County carroll county line are ours. How we got that privilege- I don't know, but the ones.

K

On the frederick and carol this one, I'm sure of are like from north to south there every hour.

K

So if they own one, we own the next, they own one so yeah, it's weird good to know. Yeah.

AC

uh Some projects that aren't in for wrecking parks again this is largely about available funding and.

AC

What you're able to make work with union mills? uh It's worth stopping here, to talk a little bit.

AC

You know the county owns that property and the and the buildings.

AC

And we've spent considerable funding on it over years and something I was talking about. The last.

AC

Board about you know, no board has ever sat down to to say how much are we willing to spend on.

AC

The whole union mills property- you know if I told you, we were going to spend 100 million.

AC

Dollars, you would probably say no we're not, uh but we've never said where. Where is that line.

AC

How much are we willing to spend, and that includes we've- we've spent things you know, keeping the.

AC

The the uh the water wheel and all the pieces go with that. You know historically accurate and the.

AC

Drawing a blank on the miller, the the mill keeping the mill historically accurate.

AC

And I asked again last board, I said you know, I know why we want it to be historically accurate.

AC

We're unusual there aren't very many of these. These left, but again how much money are we.

AC

Willing to spend to keep it historically accurate, so I just want to plant that seed for you when.

AC

Union mills comes up in the future that maybe this board will want to have that conversation.

AC

And this session in future years will go faster because part of what I'm doing is.

AC

What I need to give you today, but also building some context for you.

AC

To be able to start talking about this, since you haven't been through it already.

AC

um Workforce development they'd like an elevator and another accessible restroom.

AC

They they have what they need. This would be nicer, but it doesn't have to happen.

AC

Community college athletic complex: this is a big big project college. Very much wants it. I.

AC

Understand why they wanted, uh given the things that you have pressing on you, I I.

AC

Don't see how we can even entertain taking this up now. That said, there are other things: I've.

AC

Said I don't see how we can entertain take this up. The boards have taken up anyway, but.

AC

There's no way that I would come to you with a recommendation that.

AC

We build this into our plan. You know this is a good example of.

A

Folks, you know saying well so, and so has it. You know howard county. You know community college.

A

Has this or this community has that with fields and other things and and um athletic complexes.

A

We're not the same carroll county community college is not the same as howard community.

A

College, it's not the same as others. They're funded differently they're different animals. They may.

A

Meet you know the same needs of you know community college, but they are they're very different and.

A

That's what we got to own up to is understanding those differences and why we can't you know, do.

A

All the things they want us to do as opposed to something like howard, community college, because.

A

That's the idea of a parking garage somewhere in the government. Complex comes up pretty regularly.

AC

We almost certainly will have to do it someday, but we're not thinking that day. That day is here yet.

AC

Elections, this is another one. This is, this is a hole in our plans. You get the privilege of paying.

AC

For the operations of the board of elections and for providing them space, they are being squeezed.

AC

I think they have a valid argument that they need more space different space. We don't know.

AC

Where we're going with this yet so we have no way to build this into the plan, although it it has to.

AC

It has to happen so it's another one where I don't want you to think and not being in here. Doesn't.

AC

Mean that it shouldn't be in here one thing: you know: we believe that we should explore.

AC

Rented space for this you know there might be opportunities, one of their big things. Is they.

AC

Need storage space for all the voting equipment that doesn't have to be fitted out office space.

AC

And there are places where sometimes you have offices in the front and storage in the back.

AC

Maybe we can get there, we might have to look at building, but at the very least I think we.

AC

Need to take a real hard look at different ways of approaching this, and and they need it.

D

But what's depressing, I had no idea how many square feet they have and need, and it is big.

AC

Yeah and the needs- and this the last 10 15 years, then the needs have grown a lot right.

AC

And you'll hear about this when we get to the operating budget but yeah, it's.

AC

A tough situation for you, I mean this. The state makes decisions, you pay for them and.

AC

um There's not a whole lot of interest in what you think about it. Yeah.

AC

um Public works would like a another building to put facilities in to give fleet and roads more.

AC

Space um understandable thing to want, but not sure they have a compelling and urgent argument. Yet.

AC

Farm museum they're looking for a another barn and for some restroom renovations. Those aren't in here.

AC

Cable court, water supply: this is a little development down near hoods mill, landfill.

AC

We have a few people that we provide water to a complicated situation. This isn't the time.

AC

To try and get into it just if it comes up, there's not a project in here for that.

AC

Public works would like the maintenance center to be connected to westminster's sewer system. The.

AC

Septic system is working, there's no problem to be solved here. You know, you know, am I.

AC

Say be nicer to hooked up to a system, but um again we don't see a compelling and urgent need.

AC

A transit building edition probably have a decent argument for more space when we built this.

AC

There was some grant funding available to us. We knew what the funding was. We built to.

AC

The amount of funding that we had not to what we thought the building ought to be.

AC

So I say, probably have a reasonable need but again can't fund every good idea.

AC

Senior centers, looking for a renovation to tawny, town and they'd like to enclose the back porch.

AC

Section of the westminster senior center health department looking to expand some.

AC

Now, if we do move the election board out of the current space, that could provide a way to give the.

AC

Health department, some more space, it wouldn't be the same building, but it's I mean just feet away.

AC

Then some other smaller things, there's things that are being discussed on how.

AC

Can we do some things, but none of these turned into capital projects.

AC

Foreign court would like to renovate some courthouse space like to replace the visitations families.

AC

Family visitation yeah I'd like to replace that now. Last few years we've actually been doing a.

AC

Lot of improvements to the existing building, but they would still prefer a new building.

AC

And then the library it would like a major renovation to eldersburg and we've.

AC

Even heard some rumblings of, maybe they would like to just have it build a new.

AC

Library renovations, north carol, library, whatever renovation to westminster library, none of those.

AC

Are our projects on north carroll, something that might come up? The senior center used to be in the.

AC

Bottom of the building that the library is on top of that space is not the libraries that's still.

AC

Yours to decide, you know what you want to do with it. If anything, I think the library would like to.

AC

Be able to expand into that space, but the starting point: isn't that that's their choice to make with.

AC

Library projects there's a pot of state funding available that we've made good use of in carroll.

AC

County in connection with um library projects, they made some changes in how that's distributed. That.

AC

Led to us getting less than we were at one time but there's still money available. But when we get.

AC

This money, it's only a piece of the funding that would be necessary for any any of these projects.

AC

And something that will come up in this process, probably is the library saying we'd like to go.

AC

After the state money, but we need the county to say that you're interested in doing a project that.

AC

Will be before you've finished your discussions, but if we take that up, this is one of those places.

AC

Where I think what you need to be thinking about is not do we want to go after the state money, but.

AC

Are we willing to commit the county money, that's going to be necessary to get that state money.

AC

Sheriff looking at a few things in connection with the existing detention center.

AC

Annual reminder, we will need to build a new detention center someday we've had times.

AC

Where we were well over capacity in the existing detention center, that's not where we are today.

AC

But that's not to say it's not going to happen again someday and it's an aging facility.

AC

If we built a detention center today, we would not build that. We were building a way that would allow.

AC

A smaller number of people to watch a greater number of space. We also build in a way that.

AC

Allows segregation of prisoners so that you can make better use of your space, sometimes what we.

AC

Run into now is yeah. You have women and men, you have to be housed differently. You have people.

AC

Who are sick people with mental health problems and you end up inefficiently, using the space not.

AC

Because anybody's doing anything wrong, but it's just what you're forced into doing.

AC

With with a new design, we put ourselves in a position to be able to handle that better.

AC

uh When that comes out, this is going to be an expensive project that made.

AC

Probably the most expensive project carroll county's ever had.

AC

um Then he's also looking for some changes in the existing sheriff space, which is above the.

AC

Detention center, oh yeah, and I.

AC

Another related thing in connection with building the state's attorney's building there's space, the.

AC

Sheriff is using right now and what's still called the roadway building years ago, that building is.

AC

Going to have to come down and we need to find places to put the activities that are in there.

AC

We don't have a plan for that year yet, but we're gonna we're gonna have to deal with it.

AC

A high level look at what's happening, the capital fund. You see 23 compared.

AC

To 24, and also 23 through 28, compared to 24 through 29.

AC

Big change is um how much state funding is in the mix, because there was money going into career and.

AC

Tech and east middle school that doesn't have to go in again. This time uh we have. You know some of.

AC

The projects we've talked about- uh you have some things you're doing this year, that you're not.

AC

Last year and more so than the operating budget, the capital budget tends to be kind of lumpy. You.

AC

Know it goes up and down depending on what you happen to be doing in a given year or six years.

AC

Now the enterprise funds, so these are the capital projects associated with your enterprise funds.

AC

Not going to run through oh yeah and utilities is the other place where you'll see a long list.

AC

Of projects- and this is just just a handful of them- but again they're they're- all in here.

AC

Yeah one thing I should say here this will: this will come up during the your operating.

AC

Sessions but it's very important to the capital when you consider your water and sewer rates.

AC

uh We're not just looking at operations we're also looking at a capital projects. uh We need.

AC

To be calculating in the cost of doing these, in into the the rates that we're putting together.

AC

And uh today's not the day, but just to say this for the first time you know with water and sewer.

AC

We pretty much know what the costs are if revenue does not match the costs. All that can happen is.

AC

Something that needs to get done isn't getting done. There can be a a lot of temptation on water.

AC

And sewer rates to say you know this is going to be a burden for some people. We don't want to raise.

AC

Rates can we phase this in all those things lead to a mismatch between revenue and expenditures and.

AC

Just don't want anybody ever allowing themselves to think that it won't have an impact because it.

AC

Will and that's what happened last year was it was pushed off to the right for years and then last.

A

Year it was significantly raised as opposed to this small increments, and it walloped some people.

A

Because you know especially down the freedom area, because it's a large area when it comes to rates.

A

You know, and uh we've got to own up to it when it happens, as opposed to just pushed off to the.

A

Right and then the next board takes it on, because you know I was like. I don't know how long it was.

A

Pushed off but it was significant until we made a decision and uh yeah it was that was painful, so.

AC

Airport, of course, there's the big runway project that doesn't actually show up in in this cip.

AC

Right and then there's a very small project. We have some rental money from properties that we.

AC

Bought bought with faa money, we can use that, for I mean sometimes we replace a vehicle. Do.

AC

Some painting or you know, little stuff- I don't remember what we have in this year, but what.

AC

Are we talking about like twenty five thousand dollars? It's not much 36 actually, now 36, okay,.

AC

Fiber network we'll talk more about this when we get to the operating budget, but it's not.

AC

A place where it touches the capital, you know to run our network, there are there's equipment.

AC

That you need that gets the communication from one place to another and, like other technology,.

AC

Needs to be replaced with regularity when we set up this when we set this up as an enterprise fund.

AC

uh The thinking at that time was that the revenue we were going to generate with the excess capacity.

AC

We built into it was going to cover these costs. It's become clear that that's not going to happen.

AC

And we have no prospects for that that happening so just this year last year we started building.

AC

This in into our plans, as you know, it's an expenditure, it's not it's. We we know we need.

AC

To budget for it it can't you can't just pretend that the enterprise fund is going to figure it out.

AC

Here's the totals on the enterprise funds. The big reason for the drop here is the money that was.

AC

Budgeted for northern landfill for for purchasing the land and the first piece of developing it.

AC

And we'll be talking more about this, but um again don't let you have what don't want you thinking.

AC

That there's enough money budgeted now for what we're going to have to do to develop that. That.

AC

Landfill, uh we don't know what it's going to cost yet, but it's going to be a lot more than.

AC

What we have right now.

AC

Some other things that well, I say some other things we're going to come back to some I've.

AC

Talked about, but we know we have a problem with the public safety training center with chemical.

AC

They call pfas getting into water. This is moving our way. We know it's there. We know we're going.

AC

To have to do something, we don't know what that something is yet. So we don't know how much it's.

AC

Going to cost yet, but we will have to deal with it. We talked a little bit about slack's road. I.

AC

Was just talking about the northern landfill? The circuit court would like a new courtroom.

AC

This comes up every now and then you know they start looking to the future and saying.

AC

We're going to need a new courtroom, uh we'd like to see some more data on.

AC

How squeezed they are now before we begin planning, for you know the expenditure of a new courtroom.

AC

We talked to some about elections and we talked a little bit about the eldersburg library branch.

AC

Some things to be thinking about you know for schools, state funding. You know how much are.

AC

They going to make available- and I think about this every year. But when you have a change in.

AC

Administration, it gets a little bit bigger for me because you just don't know. What's going to.

AC

Happen could be good, could be bad, but right now we don't know. I talked some about the idea of.

AC

Modernizations uh redistricting, you know in south carroll, we know. Well, we don't have a capacity.

AC

Problem in carroll county, we do have capacity concerns in south cairo and there is effort right.

AC

Now, for them to take a look at redistricting, can that be a a solution? In my mind, it almost.

AC

Has to be the solution, I don't know how I would come to you suggesting we build another school.

AC

When we have capacity in in the county, blueprint and pre-k, we talked about that a little bit.

AC

Earlier- it's not in here now, but it's going to be now. The state will participate, probably.

AC

But just like full day kindergarten, it's not all. It sounds like you know, they'll say well, that's.

AC

A priority for us, but unless they increase the size of the pot to accommodate that all it means.

AC

Is you got money for pre-k edition and not for some other school that you would have gotten it.

AC

Things to think about infrastructure- we've talked about this a bit along the way. So, let's.

AC

Take another minute to talk a real big picture on infrastructure on the budget office. We've been.

AC

Working for some years to try and get our hands around, what's everything we own, what's the value.

AC

Of all that, how much do we need, on an average annual basis to be able to replace renew all.

AC

That infrastructure- and I say we've been working on it for years because we don't have time to just.

AC

Devote ourselves to doing this, so we kind of do a little bit when we combined time to do it and.

AC

You know it's progressing, but it but it's slow, but I have no doubt when we get to the end of.

AC

This, what we're going to find is we are not putting we're, not budgeting enough money to.

AC

Actually renew all of our infrastructure and piece by piece we always deal with it, but.

AC

I'd like to get us into a position where we have a clearer idea of where we stand.

AC

We talked about elections talked about health department, the roadway building uh we kind of.

AC

Touched on this a little bit but cost increases in supply chain issues are very much on our on.

AC

Our minds, um things like this are going on. There's no way to ever know you're getting it right all we.

AC

Can do is try and get it as right as we can, and then we get more information. We we react.

AC

Okay, that's the end of what I brought you about the cip before I moved on to bond authorization.

AC

Is there anything you would like to ask or anything you'd like to talk about on that.

A

I think it's a whole lot to absorb at this point and we're just starting and we're just starting so.

A

Really good run down a lot of things. I think that we've already highlighted uh to each other.

A

You know in offices and um yeah just a lot to absorb and, like you said, just started in in the.

A

Community you know every one of these is a real priority to somebody out there somewhere and.

A

um So town halls and meetings and all that kind of fun stuff will get their input as why aren't.

A

You doing this or why you know that's: okay, I've been to community meetings and just.

AC

About every part of the county and there's no part of the county that I went to, who has ever.

AC

Said anything other than why does everybody else always get everything and we don't get anything.

A

And it's it's always so I appreciate it um now unless there's uh comments.

A

Questions we move on to the bond uh authorization request, all right.

AC

A really important idea to understand, especially for the four new ones, who.

AC

Haven't gone through this before what we're building into our plan is what.

AC

Drives the dollar amount we're going to request in authorization.

AC

If you don't want to issue debt, the time to make that decision is when we're building the plan not.

AC

When we come back to get bond authorization or even worse, when we go to issue the debt right.

AC

Right and once you've made these decisions, the rest of it should just flow from there.

AC

This is difficult timing. We have to give the general assembly a number now.

AC

This is your first session. We have a lot of work to do before you. You get.

AC

Done and it's a pain that it works this way, but this is how it works.

AC

um We'll talk a little bit more about what it means to get. This authorization, though,.

AC

That, but just for now that itself does not commit you to anything. So we have yeah the.

AC

Timing of this versus the general assembly schedule and us trying to get our budget done.

AC

Now some words that will get used just to make sure we're all together on what we're.

AC

Saying when we say appropriated, that means you've adopted a budget you've actually.

AC

Put revenues and expenditures into a law, those are appropriated funds and we know.

AC

Excuse me how much you said was available and for what purpose.

AC

Authorized this is when we go to the general assembly and say we'd.

AC

Like authorization to sell debt, they are passing a law that says carroll.

AC

County can sell 20 million 40 million 60 million dollars worth of debt this year.

AC

Issued is when we actually go and sell the debt when this time comes, you'll, see uh jenny.

AC

Hobbs coming to you, instead of me saying: okay, we're ready to put this out for sale.

AC

And she'll talk more about this sometime, I'm sure, but uh we're very conscious about the timing of.

AC

When we we sell bonds uh first, we don't want to be paying debt on bonds that we don't actually need.

AC

Yet and they're also what they call arbitration rules. You can't be making money on bonds that.

AC

You sold as tax-exempt bonds. You have to be careful for other reasons. When you sell.

AC

So a lot of what we issue, jenny will actually be coming to you. After the fact, we've already.

AC

Spent the money now we're going to issue bonds and we'll reimburse ourselves and.

AC

I think that was she in recently with the resolution to reimburse okay, so you might.

AC

Remember she came in and this this is why she was in you. You gave the authority basically for.

AC

Us to spend the money, knowing that we'll sell bonds later and then reimburse what we we spent.

AC

Okay, so appropriations don't commit you to spending money now. Obviously it's a.

AC

Clear statement of intent, this we're going to do this, we're going to spend the money.

AC

But it doesn't mean you can't change your your mind now once we get to that point.

AC

Hopefully we don't change our minds for less than compelling reasons, because we were moving ahead.

AC

For some reason, but it's important to understand you can stop. You can say. Oh we said we're going.

AC

To do it, but now we're not authorized does not commit you to selling anything all it.

AC

Does is say you can sell these bonds now you can still make a choice later not to. Although.

AC

Again emphasize the choice to not spend ought to be tied to to this, not to the the bond process.

AC

Now issued once we issue now that is a commitment. You have debt service, you don't get to say in a.

AC

Tough year, well, you know what let's not pay the 10 million. Let's pay eight million dollars this year.

AC

And planned: that's the other five years.

AC

It's a plan says where we think we're going doesn't commit you to doing anything.

AC

And it's not yet appropriated, you know the money that you have planned for.

AC

A road in the future doesn't allow that road to move forward. You have to actually get to.

AC

The air, where you enacted a law that says we have an appropriation for that road now.

AC

So our request this year- this is driven by what's in this plan- is 65.6 million dollars.

AC

And this is oh okay. Now what we actually need will almost certainly change before we get to.

AC

The end of this, uh you might change your mind on some some projects. Cost estimates could change.

AC

We issue some debt on behalf of fire companies. That's not it that doesn't cost us anything, but it.

AC

Does change how much we will issue, but you don't? You don't need to worry about those those things.

AC

This enables us to move ahead as if this is going to happen. uh If.

AC

It turns out, we don't need the bonds, it doesn't commit you to any action.

AC

And every now and then this doesn't come up a lot, but sometimes we will accumulate.

AC

Enough authorization that didn't get used now we might come to you one year and say we have.

AC

Sufficient authorization, we don't need to get any new authorization this year and then we.

AC

Draw that back down and then over time that will build up again, and that happened last year. Okay,.

AC

Oh, I fell behind.

AC

The rest of the process in march we'll be coming to you with an overview which will that's largely.

AC

About revenue projections, but also some about here are things that are gonna, be coming your way.

AC

Things that you need to be thinking about uh when we say recommendation recommended budget that will.

AC

Be for your operating budget, your capital budget enterprise funds, uh all the pieces uh in april, you.

AC

Will hold a series of meetings with agencies? This will be their opportunity to come to you and say.

AC

This project, or this budget change, was not included in management and budgets. Recommendation.

AC

Commissioners, we would like you to consider this. The general assembly session ends in april, another.

AC

Timing problem for us we're well into our process before the state gets done, and it's not unusual.

AC

For something that matters to us to be decided on the last day of the general assembly, sometimes at.

AC

11 59 on the on the last day and that that can be difficult for us uh in april. You will release.

AC

Your proposed budget yeah, the recommended budget, is me handing something to you proposed budget.

AC

Is you handing something to the public? uh Here's where we think we're going public.

AC

Here's your opportunity to weigh in for anybody in the public who is listening, though you know.

AC

um Whenever anybody asks me well, when should I tell the commissioners what I think I'm against.

AC

This I'm for this, you ought to do this. My answer is always now it doesn't matter where you are in.

AC

The year now is the time: don't wait for the public hearing, don't wait for anything to happen. Just let.

AC

The commissioners know what you're thinking about the the earlier you have the information, the more.

AC

Useful, it can be to you and your deliberations as you're, trying to move toward a proposed and adopt.

AC

Then an adopted budget, so in may we have the public hearing. The the public hearing is not a.

AC

Conversation between people and the commissioners, it's public opportunity to share in three minutes.

AC

A person their thought on some aspect of of the budget and then in may we adopt the budget. That's.

AC

Usually 25th 27th 28th something like that, but it has to be done by the last day of may.

AC

Okay, so if there are questions or anything you need to talk about, we can take that on now,.

AC

If not or when, when we get done, what we would need from you, then, is a vote to approve us requesting.

AC

The bond authorization from the general assembly- I have a question about the process so again.

D

You've done all this, and today we make a motion and approve the authorization, and that goes to.

D

The delegation is this: like a local preference bill that nobody else down, there pays a whole.

D

Lot of attention to pretty much okay, really, the only thing that would get in the way is.

AC

If our delegation objected to it for some reason- yeah, I guess you never know for sure, but well I.

AC

Do remember they used to have me come down to testify. uh Fortunately they stopped doing it.

AC

It wasn't a particularly useful exercise, uh but there was a time when a committee chair.

AC

Said to me: well, your delegation voted against something I forget again, maybe against the budget.

AC

And that that's true, but that's not really about us, but he was making a connection. It.

AC

Did get approved but um scared me for a minute between the state budget and.

K

Right they voted against the state budget. Yes yeah right, so he he was not happy that they.

AC

Had voted against the the state budget and it was looking to take it out on our bond authorization.

AC

Happen now right, any other uh questions again it's. I know it's a lot to absorb.

A

um If you have not gone through this, um but I will I'll make the motion that the border county.

A

Commissioner approved bond authorization of 65.6 million dollars for fy24. Second.

A

I got a motion. I got a second name further discussion on this.

D

I'd just like to mention that I like it when you smile and nod your head after he says.

D

Me confidence and the bad one is when she goes yeah so watch out for those.

A

That said, all in favor aye aye. Okay, thank you very much. Thank you. Thank.

Q

You very much to uh open admin. um Mr schwam, do we have anybody on the line.

I

Yes, sir, okay, the only thing I want to share it this time and I forgot to say in priority carol.

A

I attended um an event at stratosphere down eldersburg the um carrolltown elementary school.

A

Community held a silent auction with baskets and basically took over the entire stratosphere and.

A

um It was all fundraising for the playground. It's like they figured out how to do it right.

A

And I won't say they: I mean they're, really smart, absolute kudos to vanessa, who I think.

A

Had anywhere from 50 to plus baskets in her home forever, but the coordination that was.

A

Done with the elementary school with the teachers, obviously administration, but really the parenting.

A

Kids, there are kids all over the place. I was there for about an hour hour and a half and.

A

I put my tickets in a few things so we'll see if I I get to win or not, but um really cool prizes.

A

I'm looking forward to hearing how much they raised, but I saw parents drop in just you know.

A

20S and 20s on their kids and it was really exciting to see because that's how things get.

A

Done uh to me in the community so kudos to uh to vanessa- um and I know she had a lot of uh support.

A

um And I don't think she'll ever do this ever again, because it was just such a heavy lift.

A

But I apologize, I want to sit in priority carol. um Really. I was just impressed. So does anybody.

A

Have anything else for open admin at this time, um just real quickly? There are several.

K

I think, like 15 or 17, um either congratulatory letters uh here for the board to sign and uh one.

K

Condolence letter for the former town councilman from tawny town who recently passed away so.

K

Regularly do this after election congratulate all those who have won particular offices so.

K

Just pass these okay, if you design as you're, going through agendas, okay, anything else, anything else.

A

Open admin, no, no mike open admin! Anything okay come on up: let's go through agendas.

A

uh Let's see monday january 16th, martin, lutheran observation, martin luther king.

A

Jr day, the county offices will be closed. I believe it's also a federal holiday.

A

On tuesday planning and zoning commission meeting down in the reagan room, commissioner gordon will.

A

Be attending at 9 a.m at 10 a.m. I will have one of two town hall meetings down in the senior.

A

South carroll senior center at 10 a.m until about 12.

A

Don't mess with their bingo or their lunch is what you learn very quickly down there at 2pm.

A

Veterans advisory meeting, commissioner, gordon and kyler will be in attendance.

A

At 6 p.m, um the forum bureau annual legislative dinner will occur uh over at burns hall.

A

At the ag center, commissioner, gordon gurr and kyler and vigliai will be attending.

A

And I will be having my second of the two town hall meetings that evening at 6, 30.

A

On wednesday, is governor westmore swearing in ceremony, your attending yes, okay, commissioner,.

A

Accordion is uh attending um and there'll be a legislative committee meeting virtually being held.

A

um At 10 a.m, talk to you about that because we may, if you want, go down there into uh mike.

A

Fowler's office and do that um and this way we're down there, but we can have that conversation good.

A

um 7 p.m: board of education, fy24 operating budget hearing will occur.

A

I don't think it's necessary for anybody be in attendance, but.

A

It's scheduled at the board of education boardroom at 7 pm is the emergency services advisory council.

A

Or esac meeting over at the training center and commissioner karen will be attending.

A

On thursday we will go into open session at 10 a.m, not 9. We will have we'll be doing.

A

Administrative session from eight to ten and we'll go into open session at 10 a.m.

A

From that point, we have, uh let's see, grant application acceptance of award.

A

For restoration projects uh will be discussed from mr hein.

A

um Public safety training center stormwater retrofit again land resource management will.

A

Present then dpw will present fy24 annual transportation plan. They'll be epw, will talk.

A

About insulating installing excuse me, pole, lighting at the carroll county farm museum.

A

And then they will ask to be purchasing an fyi. Now. Excuse me, a 2022 ford, f-250.

A

On friday, at 9 00 a.m is a virtual meeting for the baltimore metropolitan council that I will.

A

Be attending saturday nothing scheduled, and commissioner kyler has the podcast on the 22nd.

A

Nothing scheduled on the 23rd on the 24th, okay, it's a point in time or pitch count, and it's.

A

um What it is is um walking the county looking at uh we're, homeless and encampments are in.

A

Place so it's uh run by citizen services. I will be attending with commissioner kyler.

A

um Just wear shoes that you're willing to go into the woods on so um wednesday january 25th.

A

Commission of aging on excuse me, commission, on aging meeting.

A

And luncheon, commissioner vigliotti will be attending over to westminster senior center.

A

There will be uh 3 30 p.m. Maryland association counties are mako legislative committee meeting.

A

Down in annapolis, where commissioner keller and I will attend and then there will be a legislative.

A

Reception that uh evening, where again, commissioner kyler and I will be attending down in annapolis,.

A

Thursday, again open session once again starts at 10 a.m.

A

I will have a economic development and land use study presented by ms eisenberg.

A

um Then a briefing and request to go to public hearing for rezoning, oh in the eldersburg.

A

Investors llc again miss uh planning will present that then we'll look to uh for approval fy24 grant.

A

Application award of acceptance from the rural legacy program, where land resource management.

A

Will present that afternoon at 1 pm we will reconvene for the environmental advisory council.

A

Annual joint meeting and proposed fy 23 work plan and athlete will be held. It's a joint meeting with.

A

Us and it'll be held down in a reagan, room and the environment, environmental advisory council.

A

uh Friday, nothing scheduled saturday, nothing scheduled, and commissioner gordon has the podcast.

A

On sunday january 29th did I miss anything, miss wanda, nothing else, open admin. What I.

A

Need is a motion to recess to go into clothes, for land acquisition, make a motion to go into.

C

Recess a motion to go into closed or land acquisition, yeah. Sorry, this okay.

A

Is there a second second? Okay, I got a motion a second to go in to recess going to close for land.

A

Acquisition all in favor all right now. I need a motion to adjourn after uh the closed make a.

C

Motion to adjourn after the closed exactly I got a motion, a second all in favor all right.