Carroll County, MD Board of County Commissioners Open Sessions, 18 May 2021

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From YouTube: FY22 Adopted Budget Work Session

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https://www.carrollcountymd.gov/fy22budget

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Commissioner, ed rothstein, this is uh our afternoon work session for uh working towards.

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About the adopting the fy 22 budget and we're gonna go as long as it takes this afternoon if.

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Necessary, we do have a tentative uh scheduled work session. I believe, on thursday, tied to our open.

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Session uh so we'll see where we're at you know at day's end today, before we do as.

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Always, let's uh please stand for uh pledge allegiance and take a moment of silence.

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I pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and to.

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The republic for which it stands, one nation, under god, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

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Since we're working right into our work session, we will save our priority carols. Unless someone does.

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Have something they want to share that they can't hold till thursday. Let's dive right into this, and.

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um Ted, do you want to uh start us off yep about my usual seat? Hopefully you can still recognize me.

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That steelers thing's throwing me off but other than that's, okay,.

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That's how you should recognize that that's right.

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Gave you a few things summary of the public hearing comments.

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Just at a very high level for those listening had 18 people commented.

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16 of them funded increased by advocating for increased fundings in carroll county.

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Public schools, one of them, indicated a willingness to support a tax increase.

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You had one comment by letter to support local non-profits and.

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One comment supporting the carroll county, public library.

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Then there is a page that, at the top says, questions on carroll, county public schools.

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Had some questions, questions and answers are here.

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I'm not going to go through these unless there's something that you want me to talk about.

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Then there will be possibly talking about at some point. The body-worn cameras see a spreadsheet.

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That summarizes the costs of various pieces of doing this in different years. I'm not going to go.

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Well, yes, I'll not go through this now, we'll see where the conversation goes.

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But just for a quick orientation on this, the top line is the totals for those columns and then.

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Below that are the pieces of that total that belong to various parts of the whole program.

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And you'll see something that says: changes from the proposed fy 22 budget just to quickly.

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Catch you up with a few things that have happened.

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There was a contract that was moved from facilities to record parks, administration.

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There's no change to the budget. It's just forty thousand dollars moves from one spot to another.

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Spot in visa and fire and ems administration are continuing work to identify some of the costs and.

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Who's going to be paying what there was eighty thousand dollars that we thought would be moving.

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To your budget, but will remain now in the visa budget in the fy 22 budget. So again no.

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No change to your bottom line simply and moving from one spot to another.

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And and transfer to capital there's two million dollars of unassigned fund balance being put into.

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The land bank, that's in connection with a property purchase that you're giving some consideration.

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In the capital budget, uh npds there's a project with a timing, change there's a developer.

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Contribution toward the stormwater project that moves up in the plan so that changes the dollars.

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In particular years, then, the next two lines is something we're doing. For accounting purposes has.

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Absolutely no impact to anything you're doing or to the size of your budget or what you're spending.

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Then you see uh deer park westminster, better memorial park.

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Going back a little ways when these projects were in the early stages,.

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We split a pot of money between the two projects, not knowing exactly how it would need to be split.

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We have more information now, so the 163 900 that you see is going from deer park to west.

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The westminster park simply to match up funding with what we expect to spend.

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Tot lot ten thousand dollars, we got better information on our program, open space funding, ten.

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Thousand dollars less than we had anticipated and land bank is the same two million dollars. You saw.

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Previously, no changes to enterprise funds, no changes to grant funds and then the.

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Water watershed protection and restoration fund. This is the same accounting change that.

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We described earlier is just now we're talking about this fund will change.

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Then give you a the bottom of your up plan, so you can see our current position so at the top.

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Revenues, you see the.

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New use of unassigned fund balance of two million dollars. You see a transfer to capital, so that's to.

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Get the money from the general fund to the capital fund for land bank. You see your totals and your.

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Difference between revenues and expenditures.

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Yeah, we probably don't need to go through this, but we've. Given you an accounting of the use of.

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Unassigned fund balance: this has changed in two ways. From what you've seen, can I ask a question.

C

Ted before you go on sure on his page with this scenario, builder changes from recommended.

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At the bottom of fy 22, I thought when we left there was like 1.7 something million left on there.

C

Yes, that would reduce the use of unassigned fund balance said again: we reduced the use.

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Of our assigned fund balance, so it would be the the because you have to zero it out right. There.

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But there's like, but there was like 1.7 million lessons. I recall because that's important to me.

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The point here is: we had more revenue than we needed as we were developing this for fbi, 22.

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The proposed budget has to be a balanced budget right, so that would be mean right balance to leave.

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Okay, then the next page is an accounting is a useful scientific balance. This has changed in two.

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Ways from what you've seen previously first, the projection went up, uh as we have more information.

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As we got deeper into the air and then there's the use of the two million dollars that we referred to.

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A few minutes ago and then on the projection just another reminder: we still have about half.

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Of our income tax waiting to be collected, we'll get our next big peak in a week, so we'll see.

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Approximately another quarter of the the total uh it could be that that will lead us to have more.

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Money than we anticipated, it's also possible, will lead us to less than money than we've.

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Anticipated and at this point I wouldn't even want to make a bet on which way it's going to go.

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So what would you bet.

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That it's going to be exactly what they're thinking! What's your wager.

F

Okay, I have some projections on this myself.

D

Okay, um I think that takes care of bringing you up to date now just need to see what you'd like.

D

To talk about well the um the questions on the school, I think you know I want to take a minute.

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To read, because we just got this in front of us um yeah, my apologies. I submitted that.

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I don't know the beginning of last week, I guess right and uh I told I think I told.

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Ted, I don't need it until until you get the answers I mean you know, I didn't want them.

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I didn't need them over the weekend, but I really wanted to to see the answers to all of these.

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Questions because a lot of these questions are very relevant yeah. We could have had it too before.

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But there's you know, I I've got lingering accountability, uh challenges.

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And these are the questions that I wanted to get answers to uh to address some of those I.

F

I understand you know where you're coming from on this I mean, would they have 6.2 million? I guess.

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uh In their budget for their negotiations or whatever salaries, the school system, um I was.

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Wondering if we could use now, I'm thinking through this whole thing, we can't do any ongoing money.

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At this point, because of our budget uh in the future, but we do have some one-time money. We.

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Could put into that for bonus uh use at this time uh that just for salaries as a bonus uh to try to.

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Give a little bit of a boost, they've gone through interesting year same as the rest of us.

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And I'd like to hear your thoughts on this, it's the same as everybody.

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No department has come to us and asked us for the money that they didn't get last year. None only one.

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And you know, I continue to say that if indeed salaries were their number one priority.

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Then that should have been something that they did to make sure that every penny went to that.

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That's what we did that's why I asked some of these questions. Dick I mean listen. The.

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Bottom line, for me is this: I would love to give them everything they want. I would.

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uh But I've got a lot of my citizens saying that word, accountability and and that's why it was.

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Sort of taken out of context by one of the callers, but that's why I said when is enough enough? I mean.

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I just feel as if salaries, if, if, indeed that was their number one priority, they would have made.

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Adjustments elsewhere to ensure that that was their number one priority and they can do that.

B

And I don't want to get into the category spending part of it either. Other counties are.

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Struggling just like we are because there's never enough money when the bottom line comes along.

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So some of them, some of the counties, have even started looking into doing categories.

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So that they could indeed see what is going into salaries and what's going elsewhere in those other.

E

Cases, what do you mean by categories? There are seven categories. You want to hit that real, quick.

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Ted, sorry, okay! Well it's about a dozen categories: okay, but set up by the state on how they do their.

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Budget there are things like salary instruction, mid-level administration, transportation, special.

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Education: okay: the budget has to be adopted by categories and just to be clear, you all do.

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Adopt by category we we have right. As long as I can remember, you improve the budget by category.

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This often comes up in connection with salaries and the ability to control salaries. The problem.

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Is all salaries are not in any one category? The biggest part is in salary instruction.

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But it also shows up in special education and mid-level administration and any number.

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Of other places, so there's no way to simply say we are only going to prove x dollars. There.

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So that we can control how much goes to salaries, so it's really intertwined.

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No, I I get it it's just so so I'm thinking that we cannot. We cannot direct the school system.

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Once we allocate money to them on how they're going to use that money.

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We can, we can do it within categories, but we cannot go above and beyond that. So.

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I mean if, if there was a way to say this, increases will only go towards teachers and, like you here.

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And not supervisors, that's one thing, but is it direct because? Because uh you know the.

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Conversation I've been having have been, is it you know where what is the priority of the schools.

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Is it salaries, where are the salary, the salaries now to me? There's three course of action. One is.

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One time money for bonuses, two is finding ongoing money, pulling it from somewhere.

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That we may matching that discretionary or three is doing nothing, and that I mean that's.

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What it comes down to, I have to be careful when you say doing nothing, forgiving them.

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I am in no way interested in finding ongoing money to get them to just put it up enough. I I don't.

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Think that's realistic. We don't have the money to do that. I'm not interested in even looking at that.

C

However, that all I asked was on what was left on the bottom line is that 1.7 million I'm not even.

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Trying to give them all that money, but perhaps part of that money, so they could give the the.

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And why we can't tell them what to do? We would give. I would say this if we gave them that money.

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My hope is that they uh is that they um use that money for salaries that are people in the schools.

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And not for administration, the people that have contract positions within the schools.

C

If they use that and they spec specifically look at the people that are not going to get any steps.

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And like people, you know, except 20 or above they're, not going to get anything.

C

Specifically, look at that I would be willing to look at giving one-time money, maybe at that 1.7.

C

Left, maybe give them a million dollars for that. I would give more than that they have matching funds.

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To it, well, you know I did think about that, but we don't require anybody else to do matching funds.

C

Technology improvements, it's a, I understand what you're saying, but when we gave the sheriff's.

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Department, their race, we didn't say we'll, give you this. If you match it with that, can we do that.

C

Well, we can only suggest no, but I need to tell them right: no, we can't tell so so we can't can we.

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Make a contingent on giving them money if they're going to match it, I mean well, I guess my quick.

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Answer is, I don't think you have any authority to do that. I don't think we do either, but I think.

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If, like somebody said a strong encouragement, would they come back and say yes, this will be.

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I guess you could try, and the thing is that would have to be settled.

D

Before you adopt the budget, once you adopt the budget, there's no point in the money.

E

So my only question about this is: we've got 1.7 million left on our bottom line.

E

They've got 14 million sitting in the rainy day or whatever you want to call it.

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So you're suggesting that we take all of ours because that's basically all of it when they're.

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Sitting on 14 million, when they could easily do what you're suggesting that they could do.

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No, you got a valid point, you do, we don't have 14, we got one point together. I understand what.

C

You're saying okay right next, I want to make sure we're clear on that that 1.7.

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What was safe was what was sitting on the bottom line of 22. right now on current projections.

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We have 8.8 million dollars of unassigned fund balance uh again subject to how we end the year.

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And one other thing that just came up in the conversation make sure.

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That with people's minds- and we talk about how they give a salary increase, you know, unlike.

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Here, where you can say, this is what we're doing they're negotiating with their five.

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Bargaining units, so it's not a matter of simply saying here's. What we're going to.

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Do it's a matter of what they're able to negotiate but keep in mind? That's you know.

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You say we have 8.8 left, but then, when you start looking out, we do not oh yeah, I'm not advocating.

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Left and everything's rosy, no, it's not because then that makes it worse even beginning in 23.

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And 24., I am not suggesting rosie, I know okay, but we also have discretionary funds.

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Ongoing discretionary funds that are being used and we have to either again take them off the.

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Table completely or consider them, I mean the ag. Preservation is a discretionary fund.

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Out of money- and you know we're- we've been like you said- we've been pulling that, but you know.

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If, if there needs to be a balance and if there's an imbalance right now between the schools.

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uh And retaining the teachers to everything else I mean I, I have to say that I was already saying I'm.

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Not interested in finding ongoing money, why we don't have it. You look in the out years wearing.

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The red and the red and gets worse and worse and worse so therefore, ongoing money is not something.

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I'm looking for for anybody right now, because we don't have it. We don't have the ongoing funds.

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But that 1.7, that's all I'll, say 1.7 if we could give it I'm just looking at a million to that. If.

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Commissioner, weaver and commissioner lance brought up a very good point. They have 14.

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Million or something over there if they want to match, let them have it. I mean not.

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Let them have it, but if they match it, then give it to him, because I I actually didn't.

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Think about that with commissioner, once that's a very good point unusual, but now.

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So if they wanted to give a get a million from us if they matched a million on their side and.

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Said that it would go towards salaries of contract employees contractor employees who.

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Are not administrators correct because you've got counselors? You have other people involved.

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In that as well yeah yeah, not john, can't just say teachers. You know I. I still think.

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About this, from the reason you know, we have a very strong school system in carroll, county.

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I want to keep it that way. We have a very strong sheriff's department in carroll county. I want to.

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Keep it that way, yeah. We have a very strong fire and ems service, you know, and it was that's going.

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To get stronger, but I want to keep those three things very strong in this county, uh so we don't.

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Lose out anywhere once you lose uh focus in any of these areas, it's very hard to get back.

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Once it's gone, it's gone and I thought we have a couple dollars. We asked for matching funds. First.

F

Some some amount just for a bonus and one time funding only no more than but.

F

I know if mr wants, you think, that's well, I'm not that I'm against it. First of all, bonuses.

E

Do nothing for salaries, I mean it doesn't go against your your uh retirement or anything else.

E

You know it's a nice, it's a good, fake gesture, obviously, and I would suggest.

E

That, with 14 million sitting in a savings account that they could easily do that.

E

That's all that I'm saying I I'm I'm troubled with the fact that we, our budget, looks like it does.

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And and we're we're trying to pinch pennies here by matching and while they've got.

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A good bit sitting there that they could easily do that on their own. Well, what I'm looking now.

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I'd sit in a lot of school board meetings: you're welcome too, of course, but you've told me that.

E

Before some of the uh you know that fund balance they're going to be responsible for roofs and.

F

Some of the repairs coming up in the future. I I think they intend to have some of that.

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Money available for some of those things way. I understand that ted. You understand it that way,.

F

It murder it could be the thing about that, historically, that's not and stories, and how.

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Historically, we pay for that right in the future, with the the schools being built and.

F

uh Funding, I think it's going to be used more than we've. Ever I heard the the capital budget.

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Or the um the capital budget presentation this morning and planning and zoning.

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And there was mention of doing some of those things, but not with any of their.

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Funds they might have to use those funds. Okay. Well, I don't think one time money is going to meet.

A

Me meet their rich, it doesn't it's not going to do anything for them.

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Like you said it's just it's going to feel good they'll get a few dollars, but they're.

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Looking at steps, they're looking at salary increases they're looking at the competitiveness.

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And maintaining teachers in carroll county? How far would one million dollars go dennis.

C

I I have no idea, but they said they said 15. They said 15 of their workforce. I think it's with 50.

C

Percent of teachers, what they said are not getting anything with a step so there's 15 percent. I don't.

C

Even know how many people that is yeah, I don't know what the biggest ones were- teachers roughly.

E

I'm going to say yeah yeah, but he's talking about the ones that are at the top of the the steps yeah.

F

So out of those, I would just say, 20 percent, something like that.

D

The whole idea of a step system, though, is that there isn't that's off the top of my head. Well,.

E

I know yeah I've never understood that. But I'm you know again, I'm not a wizard in math, but when I was.

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Involved in a step system in another jurisdiction, you kept getting steps. There was no ceiling.

E

That I mean you earned whatever I mean the step just kept going until you retired. There were.

E

Like 28 steps or something I don't, I don't understand a ceiling, especially for some of.

E

These some of these folks are only 20-year tenured teachers and they've already reached the top right.

E

In a in a career that what is at least 25 30 years, I would say at least 30. I don't know if I can get.

C

Out in less than 30. yeah I mean you know I mean I talked to exactly. I've, never understood that.

E

I don't understand that bargaining part of it. They contest the salary scale to at different.

E

And this is not just me, I want to be clear again. Let me say I would love.

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To give them everything that we could, but you know, I've had a lot of citizens reach out to me.

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And say what, in the world's going on, I mean there has to be a lot of cost savings and I've brought.

E

This up before it's kind of been brushed under the road there had to be transportation, savings.

E

We got a little bit of a taste of that. I think they told us that there had to.

E

Be energy savings. We got a little taste of that answer, I'm not sure we got it all.

E

There, as a result of of the shutdown there had to be savings, where did that money go another reason.

E

Why I asked some of these questions and I'm not trying to be sarcastic here or I'm just not, but.

E

I know they've hired a lot of people. Well was last year the right time to hire a lot of people.

E

I I don't, and I'm I'm curious as to what these people are doing. um You know how many.

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People do we hire over the last year two and we cut people back well, one. Maybe I don't know.

E

Two three, I don't know I I understand and it's a completely different thing over there. I got it, but.

E

Gosh they're sitting on 14 million they have a different product they're producing. I absolutely.

E

I got that my listen. My whole family came up through the system, I'm aware of how the system.

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Works, I'm not aware of how they use some of their money to make it work, but I know full.

E

Well, what they're doing over there when it comes to the system, I got it and I think the.

F

Priority has been students, and some of these students are really at need.

F

They're trying to get them up, uh so they hired a lot more people to do. That. Is that what you're.

E

Saying yeah, especially special ed in some of those areas, most of them are counselors special, ed.

F

And you know that population has changed even since I've retired there is a tiny different.

F

Population coming through the school system, well, part of the answer is 64 positions were added.

G

Right and it's temporary or funded with one-time federal funding, so it takes care of it. So what.

E

Happens after that runs out they're getting their temporary positions. I asked this question.

F

Actually, I've asked that question as well too. I didn't mean to cut you off to commissioner weaver.

C

You can go ahead now say something go ahead. Okay. I said I've asked the question before my the answer.

C

I always get is that those positions positions will be re-evaluated yeah. That's what does that.

C

Exactly mean, if asked me, that means they're going to keep those positions and find funding for them.

C

Of course, what a lot of those amounted to is one person per school to reduce glass, sauce.

F

One temporary position there to try to get the claim sizes down a little bit for the next year.

F

And a lot of it's been funded through state and federal monies and uh they have them so they're.

F

Trying to use that to get kids caught up and not have so many kids in a class and here again.

F

The kids at the lower part of the scale need really additional help to get up to that level, but.

A

The challenge is, the impact of this year is going to take multiple years.

A

To correct- and you know this temporary fix it's a bird in the hand, just what you've said: they're.

A

Going to re-evaluate these positions, they may not stick to 64.. It may turn to 54 or 50, but.

A

You better believe they're going to be holding on to a significant amount, because this year.

A

Has a multi-year impact? Yes, scenario plays out in everything we do. Yeah advertising yeah grant money.

E

We even struggle with that. You know that right I mean I haven't seen that agency yet I know.

E

They're required to have five percent of their entire budget.

E

Over here, no more than five percent that's the cap. There doesn't have to be anything wow.

A

What do they have so? What does 14 million? What? What is the percentage.

E

I mean you could do rough math here. I don't need it right down to the to the something something.

E

Point something but just a ballpark figure since three points, since we go back to the ballpark.

A

Right around the cabinet, okay wow. That means they have to spend it. What if it's at the cap.

A

Okay, well they. This is not a a legal thing, but there's an agreement between the commissioners.

D

At the school system to to cap it at that, uh I think their approach has been to not exceed it.

D

I think they could come to you and say: would you be willing to agree to us keeping.

D

The work, but I don't know that there's any thought on their part of trying to do that.

A

How much do we have in egg preservation- and I know I keep eating this hot enough.

D

How much do we have? Well, if you mean what could you pull out in an ongoing way? That's two and a.

D

Half to 2.5 million a year could be pulled out without authoritarian with the state program.

D

Or the commitments we've already taken on through the installment purchase agreements.

A

Your fundamental issue, commercial pressure, is that we're unbalanced, it's not where.

A

It's coming from it's just that you know we're instructing you by structuring balance every.

C

Year goes down and get worse and worse right, but but at this point it's regardless, if it's two.

A

And a half here or if it's one half here and one over here, it's still the same end result.

A

And if we took one million out of that and gave his ongoing funds to the school system.

A

We would not affect the impact that ag preservation has on using the state programs.

A

We will have listened to what the schools are requesting, not giving them what they're.

A

Asking but a significant amount and if they need to you, know, add to it they can. But it's.

A

To me, it's got to be an ongoing situation, I'm only looking at one-time monies to be matched.

F

But it's not good. It's not going to have the impact of retaining schools, uh teachers, okay,.

C

No but you're saying one had an impact, but we have that and it wasn't for if it wasn't procurement.

C

We had that five year plan worked out how much money school system. They were very happy with that.

C

Right now, because of covenant that changed, but we still have the ongoing years and we're looking out.

C

They see that and from what I can gather they're happy with that. I don't think the.

C

Ongoing is what they're looking for right now, of course, they'd love to have it don't get me wrong.

C

However, I think the one from what I'm hearing they need. They would like some extra money.

C

For the people that aren't going to get anything this year, that's what I'm hearing.

A

Structure well, yeah I mean it is, I don't know how else they would do it. I don't think, but that's.

A

What they're asking I think, what they're asking is: how to retain the recruiting teachers, how.

A

To retain the teacher right now uh in the school system, that's their biggest challenge the teachers.

F

You have I mean their population is not increasing right. They have teachers they're using some money.

F

One time money to come in and supplement uh the federal money that has cut class sizes down for.

F

The next amount of years- that's not one year- I think several years out to get caught up in this.

F

That's not going to be used all in one year and uh I asked superintendent on this uh this week.

F

I guess uh he said you know, one-time money for bonuses would be great and they'd match it. So.

F

And some of the board members will talk about that. So I mean it's a possibility, so he jumped to a.

E

Million, what were you thinking before? He jumped to a million million? You said: 4.7, that's good.

C

No but contingent on the match: that'd be my feeling yeah yeah and we can't hold them through.

C

That but they could give us some assurance before we pass the budget, a good faith, gesture yeah. This.

A

Conversation I've been having, is you know, I I just want to make sure that it's focused.

A

And you're right not just on teachers, but those positions that I want to say are deserving, but.

A

That are targeted. You know it's a very targeted population that we're looking at serving I'd, say.

C

My opinion, anyone who has a contract that works in the building, that's not getting a step for.

C

Any type of increase, that's why I want to see you get something, and that could I mean there's a lot.

C

Of people that do that and I'm and I'm excluding administration, no administrators, sorry, but all.

C

The people that work in the building to have contract positions- that's how I'm looking at it.

A

Is this um these conversations? Do they go into their bargaining discussions.

A

Do you know sure they're following what's going on? Oh I'm sure that, but I mean so.

A

So they're they're bargaining discussions are ongoing right now,.

D

I don't know what kind of schedule they're on, but I know they're they're still.

D

In negotiation, you should be wrapping up. Well, you never know they can go on forever, because I mean.

E

Case went on for like nine months last year, yeah year before, whatever year was.

E

It two years ago and clearly they they want to know how much money is available right.

H

The school system has lost how many students this year, seven aren't some.

E

But the report today on planning and zoning was about 800 something right. What and the.

E

Anticipation is they think they might get half of them back what they think.

H

We don't know right is the open, but they don't know right, but they won't know until.

F

The magic count they eat in september. Well, the point I'm getting want to try to get at is, I think.

H

There's been a discontent with the population out there with parents over the school system.

H

It's been a frustrating year for a lot of parents that it's not the teacher's.

H

Fault, it's not the administrator's fault, but it does create a political element.

H

To this force that we have constituents that are very upset with what's going on.

H

And how do we approach that and how do we attract those students back, you know and some of them I.

H

Don't think we'll ever get back, you know some parents are very happy with private school.

H

So I I'm just not willing to entertain any additional funds at this point.

H

But you know next year will be a new year and we come back and re-look at this and see where.

H

We're at and see if we get more of those students back and it's tough. You know, I know, there's a lot.

H

Of teachers out there have had a tough year, but this it does bring in a lot of politics.

H

For us, as politically elected representatives, these constituents are represent those concerns.

H

And I just can't see moving forward with any type of bonus at this point in consideration.

H

What we went through this year and with the drop in enrollment and maybe next year, the enrollment.

H

Will come back and they'll have a greater need and I'll be more than happy to jump forward board and.

H

Give more money to them, but I just don't think it's the right thing to do at this point in time.

H

And I think most people be understanding that fact it's been a tough year for a lot of people.

C

It has been a tough year, it has, but I also look at the the people that are working in the schools.

C

That have to have have had to go in person and virtual. At the same time,.

C

And switch back and forth and get more lesson plan and it's.

C

It was a nightmare at the beginning. There wasn't enough hours in the day or enough hours in a week.

C

But and they're still going on, because even though students can come back four days a week,.

C

Some have some haven't, so they still have to do the online. The virtual and you have to do it in.

C

Person both things are half that haven't been done. That's why I'd be in favor of giving them some.

C

Additional funding and it is one-time funding, but then hopefully the coronavirus is a one-time thing.

C

I can't say that maybe 100 years to be something else, but but hopefully it's a one-time thing.

C

That's why I'm thinking of one-time money for this to give the people that will not get anything from.

C

The step increases. In addition, they worked the extra curricular activities. um I mean the teachers.

A

And the schools have done a very admirable job in trying to serve our community and our children.

A

And the the parents I've been talking to and the teachers I've been talking to have been overall.

A

Very positive in a very challenging time again and you've heard me say nothing: political about.

A

It it's it's the people on my street and uh it's the community. um It is very, very difficult and.

A

Yeah, uh I don't know if parents are going to be able to afford private schools, because.

A

That's really expensive and uh that's good that's convenient. Some of them will stay.

F

With a lot of them, yeah it'd be the home teaching and some of those may stay there.

F

uh That way, but here again I think parents after teaching at home for months realized.

F

This isn't quite what I thought it was going to be, and it's tough. We have to see how this shakes out.

H

I think both commissioner frazier and commissioner williams have very good ballot points and even the.

H

Comments by commissioner roelstein: it's how we balance this out. You know, commissioner williams.

H

Made a really good point about the reserves in the boe. If they truly feel passionate about it, then.

H

They can come up with the money themselves to give that bonus or whatever, to help those teachers out.

H

And I think we should just drop it and hand it off to them if they want to make that decision.

H

They can, but we have very tough budgetary decisions on the long term that we're faced with.

H

And I'm just not willing to make that obligation now if they want to move forward and do it on.

H

Their own more power to them, they got 14 million sitting in reserve. There'll be a good faith on.

H

Their part and we'll see how things look in the out years. I'm I'm very much concerned.

H

About this inflationary horizon, I believe that our budget forecaster only be completely wrecked.

H

With the deep value in a dollar- but we don't know until we get to that point.

E

My sadness is: what's gotten lost in transition. Here is the fact that we've, given them 6.2 million.

E

Dollars than they got last year, no one has talked about that at all. The only thing that anybody's.

E

Talking about is that 5.1 that we didn't get last year and and the world's coming to an end, because.

E

We don't have that, and we only heard that starting about three months ago, which is interesting to me.

E

Too well, when people found out, we had that one money sitting there, then why didn't they get.

E

It why aren't other departments and agencies reaching out and saying? Well, you flat funded.

E

Us last year we were supposed to get this. We want that. Why isn't everybody doing it? That's where my.

E

Sadness is here, you knew that you were gonna. Have you knew that that was gonna be the case, so so so.

E

Work on your budget accordingly, that's what we do, but steve look at the uh history here, a little bit.

F

Yeah, I know what the history is. There are years, never enough. Seven, eight years, here's the history.

F

Totally flat uh funding and then they in the last six or seven they've had raises uh given to.

F

Them there was not totally flat funding when not since I've been here. No, not since we've been here.

E

Before we were here before we were here, we don't know, we've already said we've been here, we have.

B

Given them increasing here, where's that water, it went over the dam a long time ago. Well, yes,.

E

It did, but I'm just looking at history, that three schools got closed as a result of of tough times.

E

I mean I'm not I'm not arguing against it, I'm just I'm having trouble. You know that that no one.

E

Has said, thank you for 6.2 million dollars that you're giving us. No one has said that. Have they.

A

Yes to you, maybe yeah they have, they have the superintendent and the board of education.

A

Absolutely have yeah to me and uh okay and I believe during the calls the other day.

A

The the gist of the calls, uh although we're asking for more we're appreciative of where we are right.

A

Now and the conversations I'm starting to have more and more with them, is they understand this.

A

um That we are, you know it's gonna, be very difficult to get anywhere near and there's.

A

The expectations to get anywhere near that five million dollars is it's not exactly off the table.

A

So so I apologize, but I am getting uh that part. What what I'm concerned with is.

A

What is the impact not concerned more curious? What is the impact that that one million dollars gonna.

A

Do and have to the schools right, so it's a risk reward. I mean, I understand the risk.

A

We're taking pulling it from us, but what's the reward, that's going to actually have what's the.

A

Impact, it's not just another million dollars, but what's the impact they'll get about 500 bonus.

E

And it might be a little less than that, but you know a million dollars gets you about 500 bucks.

F

Well, I think that's the idea behind it, not you're not going to have a big.

F

Well and then match it, then it'd be two million, so it'd be a thousand bucks.

E

Yeah and then after taxes, it would probably be you know whatever.

F

Or anything else, it's uh listen. I I do I mean, I think a good fake gesture is fine, but I I will not.

E

Sit here and attack our heritage again to give to the school system and that's our ag preservation.

E

Program, I just can't do it no, so been that I I mean I almost didn't like dick weaver in a school.

E

Play on this one, because it's a sad feeling, you know when I and I've talked to someone.

E

I talked to some of my ag books in my district, and I've got probably more than most of you. Yes, you.

H

Do and you know what they say about giving more money to schools. Hang on to your hats. It depends.

E

Well well, I've talked to a lot of them and when that, when that argument comes up about.

E

Ag press versus education funding whoa, it's like you hit. You just hit the yellow jacket.

E

That's the lawnmower. I understand that you've done that. That's a good analogy.

A

It's not that I'm suggesting it it's a it's either. I want to keep it on table.

A

Or take it off, it's the same thing: we talk about fees and taxes taken off the table and if they.

A

Are determined that ag preservation, which I am a huge advocate for and you've known this.

A

And to take it off, then, let's just move on and take it off the table. And if we agree to that.

A

Then we're looking at okay, what again it's one-time funds, it's ongoing funds, or it's.

A

Maintaining the status quo of what we have been providing them to date, which is that 6.2 million.

A

Those are the three options and if we cannot find or a willingness to find- and that's not a bad word,.

A

To use the ongoing funds, then, let's take that off the table. It can't so then we're looking at.

A

One time or status quo right right: okay, as well, make sure we're all yeah and and then.

A

If we're looking at one time, you know uh the two of you have used, the one million dollar term.

A

With a request that there's a match from the board of education or from the ccps leave it at that.

A

Okay, so what would that do to our bottom line if we take a million dollars out of.

D

And your budget would go up by one million dollars, so there's no impact on how you.

D

Have no impact on 23 or beyond, okay right there's! No, it would just be this. The impact.

E

For 22, as you talked about right right, so it would just be that.

B

Okay, I mean I I so did I would reluctantly, probably I mean we we've been we've been.

E

We've been talking about the fact that we've got this one-time money, how much of an advantage it.

E

Is- and I think, we've shown that we've used it really really well with with the budget that.

E

We've put together uh not yeah, not good, and not positive for some folks that we, because we used, we.

E

Used it in a way that we typically didn't want to use it, but you know we. We did see that I just.

E

I just certainly hope that uh that they put yeah something together, if that, if you two are con.

E

If you two are convinced that the assistant supervisor to the assistant supervisor of.

E

The supervisor is not going to get it, but the boots on the ground are then I could be.

E

Convinced to give them one-time money for that very purpose. So can we, but that's it.

E

And and there would have to be a match because man we are, we are scraping the bottom of the barrel.

E

While they're sitting on 14 million thinking about maybe putting a roof on in 2025 come on, if we can.

A

um Because I appreciate upfront accountability, you know and that's where this all started and I I 100.

A

Agree with you, um we would have to put contingents on this uh directive, you know and then once we get.

A

Their commitment, we would resurface it and go with it, I mean, but you know, if we can.

A

Make a decision now to allocate the one million dollars one-time funds.

A

uh Contingent on ccps directing one million dollars one-time funds all together to be used for.

A

I'm just going to say boots on the ground, because it's defined another way dennis did a good job.

E

Of that I mean contractual employees that are in the buildings yeah right who are not doing.

C

Anything with the steps- yes, okay, that that's what I'm looking at and that's so how do you.

A

Say contractual employees, contractual employees are in the building they're not going to get any.

C

Increase because of the steps, okay, I have no idea how many people that will entail that'll.

E

Cut it down and that'll raise that'll raise that bonus a little bit for those folks. But how do we.

E

Know that they're not negotiating a step for those folks, well, the ones at the top. They can't you sure.

A

There's no step, I don't think, there's any number of steps or something yeah. Well, that's.

C

That's true, but actually they changed and bring them down, so people would get the top.

C

Salary quicker: that's why they did that. I just want to make sure that we're not.

E

Doing something here that they're not working on already, I understand yeah on that as well.

F

Contingent in this step is in there, but I misunderstood what you guys were trying to.

E

Say here I thought you were talking about every boots on every person under contract in the.

E

Schools you're only talking about those folks at the top that aren't going to get anything.

E

Possibly that's what I that was my suggestion, but, okay, if you guys want everybody who's who, in.

C

The schools to get a bonus and the same amount of money, we're not increasing the money. Well, remember.

E

Now, though, but we're only suggesting to them right, you can't tell them no you're, absolutely right.

C

But if, if everyone thinks that's a better way to handle it, I'm okay with that I mean I it's just.

C

That, like what you said, would be what about 500 a person yeah I mean, I don't know how many yeah.

E

But if we, if we do this- and you know we're now requesting the school to come back to us,.

A

Before thursday, with their commitment, then we can make a valid motion and move forward. Okay, but how.

C

Do we want to do it all the all the people in the building yeah that are not administrators.

C

I would that's what I said: okay I'd, rather, do it that way, if we're gonna do it, and I'm.

E

A little bit hesitant here, but if we're gonna do that right, I would like to see everybody because.

E

Everybody on your line of thinking, everybody sacrifices. That's true. The janitorial challenge.

E

The nurses, the cooks, the not the nurse I'm just kidding because.

E

I would like to see everybody get a bonus. Okay, if you do everybody so you're saying maybe it's.

F

Four hundred dollars a person or five hundred dollars a person then at that time, well just.

F

I'm I'd be grateful for any amount, not necessarily because if it's two million.

A

Dollars not one million dollars yeah then it will put it up. It would put it right, probably about.

E

It would be a grand, I don't know, I don't know 3 000 employees, roughly yeah, but you.

E

Got to take away how many folks are supervisory and are you talking about? Are you talking about.

E

Have principals and aps too or not? I am yeah.

C

Getting the bonus, no not getting the bonus, they're administrating, no they're administrators, okay,.

H

Are we stepping out of our legal authority so to speak, but it's just.

E

Good point, but it's just a suggestion to suggest and they're watching.

A

Oh absolutely yeah one consideration here: you talk about getting their commitment.

D

The board of education would have to vote on using their fund balance and then request. You.

D

To approve that in in the budget, I don't know if that can happen, I don't know they can't, but.

D

There's not a lot of time left before you die. If they want it to happen, it can happen right.

C

There's there's ways to contact everyone and find out what I I'm not worried about right away.

A

I mean if they want to make this happen, but that's what this is the special meeting this.

A

Is one-time funds from us one million dollars contingent on a match of one million dollars.

A

From the school system to be used as bonuses for all those other than administrative staff and just.

A

Leave it at that yeah and then we have our next work session on thursday yeah. That's why I was.

D

Just going to go there a mechanical question on our side, we need we need to have a certain date.

D

We can't wait until next week to be able to change the budget. We have to hear back by.

C

Thursday, we have the worst session on thursday by thursday right, but that hasn't actually been.

D

Said until that point I apologize bye thursday. I was thinking the whole time. Ambition, okay,.

A

We no motion on this or is just an action at this time,.

C

Well, let's wait till we hear back, we don't have to do anything our tent is out. There have somebody.

C

Call over to their to them to make sure they're on board, I mean make sure they know what's happening.

C

I hear people call their people yeah, I hate to make the motion and if it doesn't happen, we have.

E

To rescind the motion, let's start, let's just wait here and we agree this. Here's our offer, yeah, okay,.

F

That's it yeah after schools, discussion on.

A

Body cams uh the sheriff reached out requesting that we move to the left. The.

A

Purchase of the body cams through the grant process that he went to congressman asking.

A

For, therefore, also moving to the left from 25 to 22, the analyst required uh to meeting those needs.

A

The sheriff is confident- and this is where we get more discussion about, having positions in.

A

Place within his department that could be recoded or changed to meeting the analyst.

A

Descriptors, so, therefore, believing that it would be a zero-sum gain as far as her cost going from.

A

25 moving into 22, this would be contingent on receiving the grant of body cams. uh You.

A

Know before the analysts would be put in place, so this you're just talking about you're just talking.

E

About the digital evidence, unit, correct, okay, moving to the left, so I then I'm am I to assume.

E

That the grant is still in for the body cams, the grant is still in, we put it in, we did it. We did.

A

Apply for that it is, it is dylan and he reached out to the congressman office this past week.

A

He being the sheriff, um let me run through some before you go deeper in conversation. Okay,.

A

Run through some things that need to be part of your thinking as you yeah, that's, okay, to be nice.

D

Okay, now uh the sheriff is proposing to take five existing positions and convert them.

D

To these positions, with the idea that he will get those five positions.

D

Back in 2015 later on your plan, well, how much later is he is the idea.

D

Okay, so some things you need to think about.

D

The detention center population fluctuates we're low right now, but we've seen it rise quickly.

D

I'm not predicting anything and just say if it were to rise quickly. The idea that they don't.

D

Need the positions until 25 might change on you and also need to point out when you say it's a.

D

Zero sum on the on the cost in these next several years, if they have those positions, budgeted and.

D

Are not filling them, then there would have been cost savings that you're not going to realize.

D

We're going to turn cost savings into node expenditures, and we also need to remember if.

D

We're going to implement in 22 instead of 25, there are one-time costs that now have to happen in 225.

D

Okay and know what I'm saying here, I'm not arguing against this. I just want to make sure that you're.

D

Thinking about all the pieces now on the on the request for money from congress to do this.

D

uh If we get the 1.5 million dollars right now, all we've planned on is 500 000 worth.

D

Of cameras that was to do the body-worn cameras, the 1.5 would get body worn and camera mounted.

D

So that's going to be an additional one million every. How many years were you planning for.

G

Thinking, fine, every five years, another million that we were not planning on so far, at least.

E

Okay, wait wait a minute, so the grant that is being put in for is for body worn and vehicle.

E

Mounted yes and we weren't thinking that before we talked about it, remember what we've built in.

D

Have been what you're going to be required to do by law? Not what you could do and there was.

D

Some discussion, but we had not gotten to a point where you made a decision to say you were going.

D

To fund the entire 1.5 in part, because you said: let's go after the grant and see what happens.

D

So it could be that you would go eventually and find the 1.5.

D

Anyway, but right now, that's not built into the plan and do we know if we only would.

E

Have the body worn which is required by law? I think right in 25 would would you still need.

E

All of the digital evidence personnel when you're only downloading from body worn.

E

And not from additional vehicle mounting it's a good question, not a discussion that I think we've.

D

Had but I think requests I don't think we heard anything that said the requests were different.

D

If you would only do body warning, because it seems to me, then that you're you're it seems.

E

One would assume common sense wise. It's in trouble uh that you would be downloading double the amount.

E

Because for every deputy there's a vehicle, so if we only did what we needed to do, could we could we.

E

Could we institute that a little bit and and spread it out so that we wouldn't need all.

E

Those folks, at one time, they're integrated the cameras, are integrated from body one to vehicle.

A

So both all the all that all that goes, it's all one film, it's all one digital. So you don't.

E

Physically, take the vehicle thing out and download it no and take the body off and down. It's all.

A

About different views, well, yeah yeah, but it's it's integrated from the body cam and it switches to.

A

The vehicle mounted right, I think that you know the point is making kids we've got both there's.

D

More stuff to look at yeah, that's that's what yeah I'm not talking about yet I'm just saying I would.

E

Be willing here to make a little bit of a move in order to push this forward if we could, if we only.

E

Focused on what we have to do right now and that's the body worn and then then put it in you know.

E

Then put insert the vehicle uh equipment as we as phase that in as we can. But if the positions.

A

And there's five positions and we only get the bodybuilding cameras, then the question.

A

Is do we need all five or if we don't, then they're just unfilled positions.

A

Okay, right now, I don't believe the request for positions has been tied in any way to which way.

D

You're doing it and also keep in mind uh when this position request was not based on any methodology.

D

That says: here's that if we do this certain positions, we need- and you might remember we.

D

Told you we had looked around in other counties who have already implemented it, and we saw a wide.

D

Variation in how many positions have gone into different counties, so so right now I mean I would.

D

Not feel comfortable, saying, we know that five is the right number or six is the right number.

D

So so we also don't know if you're going to vary the workload with what's a right number. No, but but.

A

We're taking the sheriff's request and requirement exactly that's all this is based on, which is.

A

To me a whole lot better than mine as far as what the needs are.

A

I mean he's, he he's he's, providing the operational needs on this request. Yes, um my point is just we.

D

Looked at the same thing in other countries, oh, I understand so. Okay, very, very different ideas.

A

But at the end of the day for for this, we're still talking about moving to the left, a request.

A

That is a requirement in fy 25 to now his requirement in fy 22., and all that I didn't quite.

D

Get through the list? Okay, I apologize if we move up to 22 and that 125 000 of renovations at north.

D

Carolina high school would need to move up as well, and the request came from the sheriff the sheriff.

D

Is suggesting making use of pins? I already talked about some things you need to consider there. There.

D

Is no arrangement for comparable state's attorney, though so those five positions are moving up.

D

Without any offset in anything, you're just you're just paying the money earlier.

C

You mean for the state's attorney first attorney right because he would need it. I actually just.

C

Talked to state attorney yesterday- and this was part of the conversation and.

C

He said if the body, if we started that they would need five at least five and one of the things.

C

That he did bring up. I will mention the county, but another county started with the body-worn cameras.

C

And all this and they didn't have enough people in the state's attorney's office. Therefore, they.

C

Had to dismiss cases because they couldn't process the data quick enough before the trials came up so.

C

If this is going to get done and to be very frank, I would like to see it hold off to 25, because we.

C

Simply don't have the money, but if it's going to get done, there's no way to do it with just.

C

Partial people here and partial people there you need all those people in place and trained before.

C

That, before that data starts coming in or it's a waste and to be very frank, that's another reason. I.

C

Think we should wait till 25 when it's mandated. We don't have the money to do it. We're gonna have to.

C

Have the additional people, and- and I do appreciate the share saying that they take those five.

C

Positions from him right now, but he wants them back and I don't blame him once I'm back in 25.

C

So it's it's, it is costing us a bit, no matter how you look at it. It's called sensor, at least the.

C

Five states attorney's positions that he thinks is or would be required and that's over the two.

C

That we've already given him, because I did mention that too it says no, I need five besides those two.

C

Because those two are for the the um data coming in for the municipalities, who have the cameras.

D

And that's what you've been presented right, yeah just emphasizing their tech.

B

A

So the total cost up top. If we were to move this to the left, would be 640 000, 638, 000.

A

Is that a a definitive cost, or is that still, if this than that type of situation? Well, no, it's.

D

Never definitive because you're, adding positions you're also adding uh benefits right with medical.

D

Costs right we never know what any one position is going to cost us all we're building in is an.

D

Average cost because because the idea is with the state's attorney's office, getting those positions.

A

Advertising those positions getting them filled, you know getting the cameras in place. All of that.

A

It's going to go beyond fy 22 by time they get those positions.

D

Yeah there could be some short-term savings just on how long it takes to implement it, which could.

A

Be significant, short-term savings, I I mean I don't say. Obviously I am in favor of moving forward with.

A

This, if the sheriff is telling me, there's a requirement again, as we talked about this.

A

It's it's a requirement now, but when we talked about- and I talked to him before he said he.

C

Could hold off to 25, but now it's requirement no a month ago. So that's what I was going to reference.

A

Because you, you brought that up and and I said that requirement never went away. That was still.

A

A requirement what the sheriff said is: no, that requirement was still there. What the sheriff said.

A

He was willing to take risk with that requirement by pushing it to the right to 25.. That's what he.

A

Said he has since come back and said: listen I've done my math trying to figure out how.

A

Since I know it's a requirement- and I know it's something that is, that is a a a must-have.

A

Where can I find positions internally and then he looked at his internal staff for his analysis.

A

Analyst positions that he could transition to. I don't believe he looked at the state's attorney's.

A

Piece to this you know he was looking at internally. Well, there is no comparable opportunity.

D

In the state's attorney, well I I understand that, but I don't think the sheriff when he was bringing.

A

It to my attention was looking at the state's attorney. No, he was sorry, that's why we wanted.

D

To make sure that you were understood and on the idea of finding positions, I just want to make sure.

D

We're clear when the sheriff says I can find positions to to fund this he's, making an argument.

D

To fund it several years earlier, but it doesn't change the ongoing cost commitment that we're.

D

Taking on that remains exactly the same right exactly right! That's that's! That's a good point.

C

That's the key here, but I would say the the from what I think earlier, commissioner ross scene, the.

C

Request never went away not if the different than the requirement never went away.

C

Because I don't know if I even if I have so, I have the text on my phone or if I race a tax where.

C

It said he'd be okay. Without this, until 2025. he's, he texted me and said that would be okay.

C

So the req, so the request is still there because of course he still wants this. I would too, if I.

C

Was him, however, I don't think I'm just thinking but number one. We don't have the money, but I.

C

I just think it's a request, it's something that we, it certainly would be nice to have.

C

We can't afford it right now. It doesn't have to come here until 2025.

C

I think that's the time to wait for it. I also believe- and I've actually talked to other people.

C

Other elected uh officials, not just people on the street, who believe that money will be.

C

Coming from annapolis to help fund this in 2025, because everyone's going to have to do.

C

It but he's looking at the gap between now- and I understand I understand that get that too, but this.

F

Is contingent on the grant money right? Well, this power move is contingent on the grant money right.

D

Okay, well, that's that's another good thing for you to talk about, then, um if you, if you put have us.

D

Put all this in the budget contingent on the grant and the grant doesn't come through. Are you saying.

D

That you're, then going to revert back to where you were and move all this back to 25 again, yes,.

A

That's what my thoughts were. um My thoughts were leaving at 25 in the first place.

C

So, there's that there's that I'm still amazed that people on the street talk to commissioner freezer.

E

So just a question: that's what you're saying.

E

Why can't we phase this in? Why can't we start now and start facing? Why do we have to go out and hire.

E

10 people next week once they have the cameras, the need will be there. I mean assuming this is the.

E

Right number of operations to help us out fiscally okay! Well, that that's an operational question, I.

D

I don't want to try and answer that I I I can go with it. If we could do that, I mean we can't afford.

E

To hire 10 people next week or july, the 1st we can't, I don't know where the money's coming from.

E

Why can't we just phase it in it's, not a requirement until 2025.

E

So let's begin we'll get one employee we'll get a couple cameras in place based on the amount.

E

Of employees that there are to to look at the material, then maybe another four months hire.

E

Somebody else put a couple more body cameras in until eventually in 2025 or 2026, actually.

E

Everybody's got one and all the people are in place. I I do think that's a good idea boom right.

E

Now and july, the 1st, oh, my god, we got to hire 12 people and all these things got, as you said before,.

E

That wasn't what I understood and I didn't talk to him. I was going based on text messages that.

E

You all were getting. I would guess, that's why. Why couldn't that work? I I would guess that if.

D

If the sheriff were here, he would say how do I decide which deputy is going to have a camera.

D

And which one is not, I don't know, I know that on the fiscal side of it, I'm not sure how much we we.

D

Gain because our problem is when we get to 25, we don't know how we're paying, for this whole whole.

D

Thing you know, phasing it to 25 still leaves us with that same that same problem yeah. So we save.

D

A little we do save some money in the short term, so you have some money in 23 that you wouldn't.

D

Have and then 24 that you wouldn't have, but in 25 we end up in the same place. Yeah, that's the only.

E

That's the only reason I was looking. I know it's gonna in the I know. At the end, it's gonna be the.

E

Same amount of money ted I get that, but I was looking trying to to to maybe phase this in a.

E

Little bit to to assist, because I I just don't understand how in the world you think we can hire.

E

Where, where are you coming up with the 638 thousand dollars worth of people answer that.

E

Answer that question for me and I'll then I'll, actually that's everything right below it right.

E

I know that, but where where's the money- oh where's, the money coming from, I want to know where that is.

H

We were cutting all the director's salaries.

E

If you, if you can get into a good place there, that's why I'm saying why can't we phase it in.

E

I don't know it's just we don't have that kind of money.

E

There is that there where's that money. Anybody know.

H

We're sending a million to the boe take that back. Well, that's one time cost! This is not. I know.

E

We just don't have it and then perhaps by the year 2025. If we would begin to phase.

E

This in and I get it who gets a camera and who doesn't, but maybe some of that money that.

E

That we are thinking will come from annapolis. You know across 87 000 fingers on your hand.

E

On that one, because good luck with that, I I think, commissioner, wants to make a very good.

H

Point and also the fact that right now we're in a bit of an economic influx and instability.

H

I think it's best to hold off and wait and look at the view. Next year we might be in a totally.

H

Different position and all of our anxiety about this might subside and we'll make better decisions.

E

Which is fine, I would say, better decisions, but I understand yeah what what I'm suggesting is at.

E

Least, we could get the program if we're going to get these. If we're going to get this grant.

E

I don't want these things sitting on the shelf, either sure if we get the that's. If.

E

We get the grant, so what would be wrong with, with strategically implementing the program.

E

I mean I get it that this this deputy doesn't have. Maybe you put one body cam per shift or.

E

Something or one a supervisor I don't know. Well since it's not my that's not my thing. It's not.

A

So much getting the body camera on the deputy, it's the it's, the it's the back end cost. I understand.

E

That, but if you don't, if you don't have that up front with everybody having one on, then you can.

E

Strategically begin to hire people based on the amount of cameras that are being put in service.

E

That's my that that would be a question I'd have for for for everybody, my my thought is we either.

A

Do what we're doing go for the grant and move forward or not do what we're doing don't go for.

A

The grant and focus on 2025 when the requirement is mandated by law. Well, I think I'm trying to.

E

Reach the happy media, I get you I, but I think, if we're gonna go continue to go after this grant,.

A

Then, and if the share is saying hey, this is showing that we should have this in 2022.

A

I'm not sure how much money we're losing or where we're spending more.

A

I'm going back, I don't know I, I know what you're saying I'm, not I'm not disagreeing with you. I just.

A

uh I mean I'd like I'd like to get a question answered, maybe if that would work, I don't know.

F

Commissioner, boucher you're, you know been talking about inflation fund, inflationary.

F

Funds and those type things and I kind of agree we're probably going to have inflation.

F

Or higher expenses? No matter what we're talking about right now, things are going through the roof.

F

Was plastics uh fuel everything everything it's just? I even saw a sign uh went by mcdonald's.

F

I don't think it was one up in your area, but uh they're hiring 13 an hour yeah.

E

That that mcdonald's, tough to find yeah, I couldn't find I can see the garbage there.

F

Salaries everything's going up here, uh whether we want it or not. It's going to hit us buy now or buy.

F

Later, at a higher price, I don't know if you I, like your idea of phasing. If it can happen, could could.

E

We get the sheriff to answer that question and then maybe we could we could. We could put a put up.

E

A fork in this one on thursday, if we you know, if we get if we get the grant okay, now, we've got.

E

A bunch of them sitting on the shelf. Okay, let's, let's begin to phase it in, let's get a couple.

E

Folks, with a body camera on strategically, I mean I don't want to use this analogy, but it's the.

E

Same way, we're doing the fire and ems about the same way, we're strategically surgically.

E

Infusing people at certain fire stations to help out a real problem that we have.

E

And then you wouldn't have to hire all these people out of the gate.

E

Well, and plus, even hiring them, you got to train them, I know, but hiring them doesn't mean that.

A

They're on the books, I mean it means that the positions are available to be hired well. Okay, so.

E

You got 10 body cameras in service. How many people do you need to read evidence based on 10, not 120.

E

10. you need one okay, we might be able to find enough money for one person. Okay in six months,.

E

We're going to put 10 more body cameras on all right. You need another person. Okay, maybe and.

E

Then you just you, gradually build the the program until you're ready to rip with everybody. It's not.

A

His positions, it's the state, attorneys right. Well, all of the positions, all of them and that's my.

E

Question if we could phase it in and hire based on, how many are in service will that work over.

E

The next four years can I have a question: can we use the state's attorney person to do this.

A

Can we use a position, that's in the sheriff's department and that's transition to an analyst.

A

And put them over the state's attorney's office, if the sheriff says he has five positions, can we take.

A

Two of those positions and put them here: well, you have the authority to reduce the.

D

Appropriation to the sheriff and increase in appropriation to the state's attorney. So yes,.

A

So that may that may allow us to do exactly what you're doing phasing in with.

A

Zero policies you're so confident the other way around whichever works. Well, the positions are.

A

Right now in the sheriff's department, yeah, okay, so so, if we took you know those five positions and we.

A

Said: okay, you're getting three we're going to move two of those positions make them into analysts.

A

And put them in the state's attorney's office that'll be a phased-in approach that you just said.

E

That's acceptable, I don't know yeah, I don't know I get. I get it ted. It's going to cost us.

E

I mean it is it's going to cost us in the end, but if we can save some money in anticipation of.

E

Something coming in relief, wise based on everybody in the state needing to get these things, because.

E

The almighty's of of that quaint little village down by the chesapeake bay has told us that.

E

Then maybe that'll help us a little bit to get to that. To that point, instead of you know,.

E

But if we didn't know what I just showed, I don't think it wouldn't cost this. Would it.

A

If we transitioned to positions from the sheriff's department to state's attorneys.

A

As analysts, it wouldn't cost two new positions. Well,.

D

In one sense, but you still you'd still be left with it's a short-term savings because he wants.

D

The positions back- and you also would lose the savings that you would have had by not filling.

D

Positions so what I said about the sheriff doing that earlier would be exactly the same if the.

D

State's attorney is using those positions, and you know on the idea of funding coming from the state.

D

I would be very reluctant to to count on that. I don't see the state having a lot of.

D

Extra money and then the other thing you know it's all about phasing this in or starting now.

D

I don't know that I believe it's going to happen, but if it happens.

D

It's not hard to imagine that they say, but no supplanting you know, if you don't have the money.

D

Now we'll give it to you, but if you've already budgeted it uh you're out of luck, another good.

G

Point one other concern with with um phasing it and trying not to rain on anyone's parade. Is that.

G

If, if the grant, if, if it's contingent moving forward with this in 22, is contingent upon.

G

The grant award and you get the grant award. um I I that you've got shelf life issues, you're going.

G

To put the cameras on a shelf and not use them for two or three or four years until you know.

G

You know use 10 this year, 20 next year. Yeah, I don't know I don't know yeah. I don't know.

E

Whether that didn't seem to be a problem before when we were discussing it, everybody said well.

E

If we get the grant, we'll put them on the show, no, we said don't go after the grant. We said I.

A

Think we can. I thought that I thought the board said you were gonna, not accept the award yeah.

A

um And I believe there is a shelf life on these with technology like a high gear, you.

A

Know, rotation but um but I don't know specifics, um I don't know I think, having a further conversation.

A

uh I mean I, I think that would be much easier to take here. We we can't, we can't do this.

B

We just can't, I understand it, looks nice, we can't do it.

A

I understand that those unfilled positions where making savings just are not filled.

A

um But they're still planned positions, they're still required positions.

E

Once the whole system wants whole thing's gone yeah, no, I'm just on that existing position.

A

But um figuring out and again, this is a is this doable and how doable either.

A

Keeping two in the sheriff's department and or three and giving two and or three to the state's.

A

Attorney everything you've talked about is doable, it just all comes with some implications. It does.

A

And it also comes with a price tag, but the price tag is going to be different than this and should.

A

Be much less than that price tag because it won't be positioned. Positions won't have that price tag.

D

I'm not sure it's, I guess it depends on what you call much less. I mean if we put five five instead.

D

Of seven positions in in the earlier years, you're gonna save a year or two of a couple positions.

D

Right so so, if you're, if you're saying a hundred thousand or two hundred thousand is a lot a lot of.

D

Money you know this gets weird, because obviously a hundred thousand dollars is a lot of money right.

D

But in context of your budget and your plan right, it is not a lot of money right and uh just to.

D

Briefly, move away from this, uh you all got a email from the superintendent saying uh that they would.

D

Assure you that they would do what you suggested. If you put the million dollars in over here.

E

Offense doa, okay, he assured us well, I I can read it to you. If.

E

You want sure that would be great dad because you, you read a lot yet. I understand you read a lot.

D

Nothing as interesting as this, though, that's hard to believe I should have boots when I hear.

D

That, dear commissioners, we appreciate your consideration of funds to support one-time.

D

Employee stipends in ccps we understand the intent would be that these funds would.

D

Go toward one-time compensation efforts for employees in our buildings, not administrators,.

D

And that we would provide at least a match to the one million dollars given.

D

For perspective, if we were to give, if we were to just to give one million and one-time stipends to.

D

Only our teachers, it would equal approximately a point: eight percent one-time stipend for teachers.

D

Therefore, because your intent is for an even wider group of employees in our buildings, I.

D

Can assure you that we would honor the intent of at a minimum matching. This amount to our.

D

Staff in schools, minus administrators and are appreciated appreciative of this support.

A

So is the time I can make that motion.

E

Can he do that? Can he do that without the voice.

E

That, well, I guess he can huh he's the boss right. So my motion is to what he said.

F

Second, no, it is, it is contingent on the validity and.

A

uh Path forward with what dr lockhart has provided.

A

So contractual employees in the building being matched by the board of education or ccpa yeah.

B

Okay, have an accounting administrator figure out that motion.

B

Okay, so that would increase your fy22 budget by one million dollars and would decrease the.

D

Current projection from the sign from 8.8 million to 7.8 okay, so I got a motion. I have a second.

A

Is there any further discussion on this? All in favor against, okay 4-1 motion carries.

A

Okay, um now back to the body which is in the same path with the sheriff, is: how do we get.

A

To where he needs.

G

Earlier than 25. earlier than 25., and it's it's a mixed bag, it's a phased-in approach.

A

It's a partnership with the state's attorney's office on the analysts that are needed.

E

I don't know I'd like to hear from the sheriff yeah that deed is a reality.

E

uh Process can you indeed I could have said mike somebody yelled me: can you indeed.

E

Phase them in perfect in a professional approach so as not to uh to.

E

So it's not to affect emergency operations uh that that would be. You know that that would be.

E

I think a really pertinent question to yes, also to enhance right vibrations and and how that is.

E

Done what would be, certainly I mean the sheriff. He has a tremendous command staff over there.

E

I would think they could probably come up with a way in which they could they could phase it in.

E

With appropriate personnel so that there would be at least someone I don't know, and maybe not maybe.

E

I'm maybe that's not realistic, I don't know, but it certainly would help us because then we could hire.

E

As we need, as they begin to be implemented, and it's not to question.

A

The value of the body cams: no, no, no, no! No! No at all! No! No! No, absolutely not because we listen.

E

We all know that they should have them on right. Yes, yep, yes thoroughly. I mean, let's be clear,.

E

We know the answer to that question. All of us, okay and they'd- want them to.

E

Liabilities, but uh you know knowing that we have these these, these fiscal, uh these these.

E

Restraints right now, we've got to come up with a way in which we can do this, but yet yeah afford.

A

It- and I think um I don't know I- I think that there's got to be some creativity with again.

A

The state's attorney's office, because there are the two they're going to have the analysts.

A

Somehow, embedded in each organization, there has to be an answer to this to work together to make.

F

It happen, and it may be not having five, but having two right and another question I would ask too, is.

E

And I don't know, maybe this question has already been asked and I missed the answer.

E

Based upon the amount of activity that our sworn police have in this county.

E

Would does that not also determine the amount of folks and the amount of stuff you got to look at.

E

On these cameras- because that's me like we're, not nypd here, uh we're not baltimore city either. Thank.

E

Goodness so yeah, but I know that that that answer, probably the answer of an incident, could occur.

E

Far outweighs right, I get that right, but maybe yeah I see where you're going with that, but I'm.

C

Also thinking that the sheriff's office attorney's probably thought about that already, I would hope.

E

That's why he answered. I don't know I don't know well, it goes back to us saying earlier.

D

I don't think anybody can offer up a definitive answer to how many people are. Are you going to.

D

Need it's it's just too uncertain right, I think they're taking their their best shot.

D

At saying this is how many people we think we're going to need to process this. I mean.

E

If we could find a way in which to do this, then we could come back on thursday with some three.

A

Absolutely I think uh we have enough food for thought for the sheriff uh to provide information.

A

We'll reach out to him and his department for uh for more details and we'll move forward and.

A

Maybe also, uh and that state's attorney dude yeah, what's his name, what's his name with all the hair.

A

Dude with the hair yeah, that's the hair, a lot of hair okay. What else you want to talk about.

H

I'm done orioles baseball, that's terrible issue. um Aren't they playing tampa bay.

E

We got good pitching, so I don't think there's anything else on here. I think we, I think we.

E

We've done all that we can do. I guess my question would be what, where, where are we now.

E

Moving forward here are we ready yeah to adopt once we get this body camera thing done, which.

E

Could be thirsty or how? Where are we schedule wise now, ted for you, because you guys gotta.

E

You gotta go punk and stamp it too. I know so. We would very much like to be.

D

Done on thursday and do the dunk and do the don't done what the budget are done with us.

H

All the above, it's fair. um Well, I think the only lingering issue right now, president, is the.

E

Body camps and well, I agree unless anything anything further anything further. I I just.

H

Want to state, I really appreciate commissioner williams's perspective of wanting to phase it in.

H

Because I've learned in my experience in business, sometimes I pick up a new customer. They want to.

H

Dump on a ton of work on me and I try and I'm I'm dropping things and I'm just not producing.

H

A quality product, so I've learned to take a step back and say, look just give me some piecemeal.

H

Let's get used to the system, your process and procedure and then grade me and see how.

H

Well, I do and then ramp it up, and I think that would be the best approach long term to do this.

D

Okay, so a question now I think I'm hearing this, but I just want to make sure you're saying that.

D

You're done with everything, except for this one question so as far as the work getting.

D

Done they can move ahead, knowing we need to fill in this blank and then a reminder, while.

D

You will make that decision on thursday uh next tuesday you'll be back again to actually.

D

Adopt the ordinance that would contain all the decisions that you've made correct so so thursday.

A

At 0 9, we have open session at 1 pm. We have our second work session.

A

With the intent to move forward, once we get the information from the sheriff and uh ted.

A

As you shared at 1 pm on following tuesday may 25th, it is our intent to adopt the fy 22 budget.

A

Correct wednesday, 26th 25th, no tuesday, 25th 25th, okay, which I'm going to have a little.

E

Issue with, but I'll try to make it work. I may not be here, but I can do it virtually.

E

Because I think that's only a matter of it's going to be.

E

Boom, um which, why can't we do that on thursday, we have to formalize the ordinance.

E

Gives you friday, saturday, sunday and monday that you wouldn't have had.

E

If we do it thursday, just saying okay, so so I apologize uh anything else. No, sir, I'm trying.

A

Okay, I need a motion to adjourn for the day. Second motion. Second, all in favor, aye aye.

E

Aye I'll get with you just for the I thought steve wanted to stay here.

E